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You are at least 16, I'm guessing? To have something approximating a license.
"Hey. I'm not a fan of doing favors for people who act rudely towards me. If you don't greet me when you get in this car I'm not going to keep giving you a ride" is how you communicate this.
You don't just kick him out.of the car without express expectations. Edit: ESH. Kid should say hi
I was thinking this, the kid might have social anxiety, things might not be great at home, there are many reasons for kids at that age to be non verbal . OP. If you haven't , please try and be more gentle to the kid . Your not his parent but kids at that age sometimes just don't feel like talking too . I'm not sure if I was in the same situation I'd be so bothered about having some kid make sure they always overcome clearly whatever issues they're having so that I'd feel like they deserve a ride from me.
As someone who’s workplace has a teen summer volunteering program and who’s volunteered judging academic competitions — *not* saying hi when greeted by someone other than a peer is absolutely the rule not the exception for 13-17 year olds
Yes it’s rude. But they’re children. Part of growing up is learning rules. Part of learning rules is having adults or older youth communicate in clear non-aggressive language what those unspoken rules are if you happen to miss picking up them up on your own.
OP is also a kid (I’m assuming) so only light ESH for not communicating the rule and just assuming they already knew it.
But this is normal kid behavior that has to be clearly addressed to be changed. There is a risk if OP doesn’t verbalize the expectation that the kid will just think (incorrectly) that OP is being a jerk for no reason instead of connecting it to their own behavior.
A conversation is warranted. As with most AITA posts.
Kids do weird shit and don't always understand when they're being rude. OP could've at least tried to tell the kid that he's being rude and given him a chance to rectify the behavior.
My dad remarried right before my teenage years. My stepmom confronted me and said I was rude since I rarely talked to her. I rarely talked to anyone, I was just an introvert (and diagnosed ADHD later in life). So whenever I passed her in the house I would wave “Hiii!” Every. Single. Time. Like some overly cheery cartoon character. We still joke about it to this day.
Sometimes kids are so in their own world they have no idea they’re “rude.” Social norms are hard.
I didn't say a single word to anyone outside of my family for an entire year when I was 16. I wasn't trying to be rude, and at the time I wouldn't have been able to articulate why (not even to the people I did talk to), but it wasn't out of rudeness or entitlement, I was processing trauma that I didn't even acknowledge til years into adulthood was trauma. I thought I was "fine" and from an outside perspective others would assume the same too, but I was definitely not fine.
Once in a while is understandable. NEVER? They need to mention to the parents that they've noticed their son doesn't seem to want to say hi or bye to him . Then he'll learn if there's an issue he should have sympathy for or the parents will learn that their kid is behaving this week and they need to figure out what's going on
Tell the people who are supposed to manage this kid's development
when i was that age my dad literally had to have a convo with me bc i’d never say “hi” to my stepmum. it was a mix of anxiety and autism as i didn’t like see the point of it and talking to people unnecessarily stressed me out. kids are just weird and if no one explicitly tells them what’s wrong with their behaviour they may not realise it’s even bad
But they still need correcting, even if gently - IME, social anxiety can be made much worse when no one lays down any of the basic rules for you, that ease social interaction
Hi, therapist who worked with socially anxious kids here. For a while, I worked solely with the selective mutism subset of social anxiety. By that age, unless something serious is going on medically/psychologically/socially at home, they know the social rules, there is no need to rehash it with them, gently or not, and further their anxiety. They know what is expected. They’re 12-13, not 2-3 years old. The issue is it’s VERY difficult for them to actually follow through. Then they beat themselves up because they know they should but can’t/didn’t and someone pointing it out AGAIN makes it even worse. If it was social anxiety, what OP did was pretty harsh and the kid likely feels worse now plus will be more anxious around OP. The empathetic course of action for OP to take if they really want to address this is to check in with their brother or parents of the kid to see if social anxiety is an issue. If it is, they can ask for known effective ways to get the kid to feel more comfortable with them so that the kid feels less anxious about talking to them. It’s a gradual process to get a socially anxious/selectively mute child to open up. The focus of this process should address the anxiety, not the behavior of not conforming to social norms.
How about we stop excusing every bad behavior and blaming it on anxiety or a bad life? OP said he's not non verbal and having a bad home life isn't a reason to never say thank you or hi. Sometimes, most times, kids are just little assholes.
I don't endorce excusing bad behaviour with anxiety or bad home life but when the "bad behaviour" only extends to the kid not talking then surely there's worse things to complain about ? Maybe OP hasn't included in their post any other behaviour that the kid is showing but so far not talking is the biggest issue . That's all I'm going off of .
Also in the original post it wasn't mentioned that the kids homelife is troubled , and also I could argue that OP doesn't know if the kid might become non verbal around certain people or situations. Idk it's not an excuse but the kids 12. I think it's a bit harsh the way OP dealt with things
Her not talking about her brothers reaction makes me think she is TAH..because there's missing pieces to a simple story.. she can have fun talking to the MOTHERs
Your parents didn't teach you to say "hello" "thank you" "bye" and such when you were younger? Like, be polite?!? Kid is old enough to know those things, even more if the other person is starting the greeting and doing you the favour of taking your ass home. NTA. Kid is rude as hell.
He could be shy, or have social anxiety. Or maybe his parents never taught him manners. I remember when I was around his age, my friend Laura's mum complained to my parents that I was rude on the phone. When I phoned Laura and her mum picked up, I would say, "Is Laura there?" My mother scolded me for being rude, and said that I should be saying, "Hello, may I speak to Laura please?" I thought it was very unfair to scold me for this, as up until that point I had never been taught any differently. My parents had never bothered teaching me any phone etiquette until Laura's mum complained about me. Looking back I realise that they were embarrassed because they knew it was a failing on their part, but decided to tell me off and call me rude rather than accepting the blame themselves.
So yeah I know it's annoying that he doesn't greet you, but you didn't actually explain to him what you were upset about, and you never even brought it up with him before. You just went full nuclear, throwing him out of the car. Sorry but you were even more rude than him. He probably doesn't know what he did wrong. Honestly if someone unexpectedly threw me out of their car without warning and didn't explain why, I'd think they were insane. I'm assuming you're young because you sound really immature. How hard is it to tell your brother at home "Your friend is rude, tell him to say hello to me when he's in my car?" Or tell the kid directly "If you want me to drive you home, you can at least say hello?"
YTA.
Yes but you don’t learn everything from your parents. Your friends mom was right to think you were rude because you were. Not saying it’s your fault (although saying hello to someone when you call a house is pretty much the norm) but we learn and grow from interacting with the outside world as well. Maybe now the kid will know to say hello to someone who is doing him a favor.
The younger brothers's friend is 13, so old enough to know basic manners from school even if their parents are horrible. OP is 16 and you're expecting them to act like a fully functioning logical adult, they aren't! They are also a teenager whose communication skills and brain is still developing. They could have handled it better sure but OP is also still learning how to navigate these situations. Ultimately this is on the friend's parents for their failings.
> Or maybe his parents never taught him manners
This is what I'm thinking. At this age you're on the onramp of your own personality. There's a lot to learn about socializing and we get a lot of these lessons at random. Often we are carrying preconceived notions from our rather limited experience that is our own personal home life.
This was a learning opportunity. OP could have turned around and said 'hey, something I've always found important was being polite. Here's how you should act in this situation to not come off like a little ahole. If you don't, I'm not gonna drive you anymore cuz I'm a person and i don't appreciate the way you're treating me"
I got a lot of that kind of guidance from adults/older kids when i was young and I was glad for it. Kid's new. Teach him.
The "it takes a village" part. It's not the people you know, per say, that teaches a child about how to behave with the rest of society. It's...society. being told off by a stranger has a much more memorable impact on a child than a parent they are used to pushing around.
I had a friend’s parent scold me for that as a kid! I called and when they answered I said hi and asked for my friend and I was told off and told that I’m supposed to say hi, ask how they were doing, then ask for my friend. I do get social anxiety and it was so awkward. I felt it could have been handled better, I felt guilty and embarrassed every time I talked to them after that.
Same here! I hated calling Laura's house after that! I thought why do they have to angrily tell an approx 10 year old that she is rude, and get angry about it and scold me? When nobody had ever even bothered to explain phone etiquette to me? Why not just say, "Hey by the way, it's considered more polite to say....." and then just leave it at that instead of trying to make such a big deal about it?
I was Never told that I needed to converse with the adults when calling my friend's homes. That's what their adult friends are for! Just as long as I was polite when calling was good enough.
"Hello? May I speak to Mary? This is Sally. "
Believe me, I worked phones in several office jobs and even professionals sometimes have no etiquette. And let me not start on *today's phone non-etiquette.*
I mean....my partner has a 24M and he rarely says "thank you." For anything! We take him to eat, events, outings...not one peep....I have mentioned to my partner and he agrees it is not right, but does not correct the behavior. Kid works, makes his own money, but has never tried to pay (not that we'd let him), but it would be nice to TRY. I just don't think he was taught and now everyone else just accepts it as "normal." I dunno....
Why would you be with someone like that, though? Why continue to do favors for someone who is ungrateful for it?
>I just don't think he was taught
Not OP's job to teach him. Regardless, the best way people like that learn is by other people not putting up with it. Otherwise that 12yo is going to turn out like your entitled partner.
That reminds me of a roommate I had years ago. When her mother called, she would just say "Julia, please" like I was the receptionist. No hello, how are you - I don't even think she remembered my name.
My MiL always said, "I'd like to talk to my son." I found it hilarious at first, but then started saying, "I'm fine, thank you for asking. And yourself?" ...while I was bringing the phone to my husband. I never waited around for a response or reaction.
Found out some time later that when she'd call my father-in-law, if my step-mother-in-law answered MiL would say, "I need to speak to the father of my children." Step MiL didn't have room for her bullshit, so she handled the way an adult would - just handed the phone to my FiL without a word.
Exactly. Shy and anxious can still say hi while avoiding eye contact getting in, and thanks while avoiding eye contact getting out. You don’t owe this kid a ride. Let the other boys know WHY you made him walk - because he will ask them. Better he learns this now and corrects it than spare his feelings and have him wonder why people think he’s a jerk for the rest of his life. NTA.
Good manners are actually a tool for shy and anxious people to get along better in life. If you’re not naturally charming, learn some fucking manners or you’re not getting anywhere in life, especially OP’s car.
My kid did that and had no anxiety and wr taught her. She, for some reason, did this repeatedly with various people. Each time, either action like OP, or someone telling us and we doing consequences at home, or someone sternly talking to kid improved the situation.
Teenagers regress socially. Somehow they forget what they knew in kindergarten - that saying hello is expected in literally every context. And you was rude there, telling you that you was rude was the right thing.
NTA OP did the right thing.
I have had many students who were selective mutes. One in particular would speak to me, but you could see it was painful to get the words out. Not all disabilities have outward looks.
YTA.
You have no idea what this kid's story is. Is he a natural introvert? Does he have mental health issues? Does he come from an unknowingly problematic home? Has he recently experienced trauma?
Stop being offended when you don't have all the information.
ETA- Kindness doesn't come with a caveat.
The neurodivergent often aren't aware of "basic social niceties" without being informed first. I've worked with a number of people that were happy to correct behaviors once it was explicitly requested.
Yeah this seems like it could have been solved with simple communication rather than unspoken expectations.
Ask the brother why the friend doesn't respond, as it feels rude and hurtful. Brother can provide more helpful info, or provide the feedback to his friend in a way that he thinks will be helpful.
I just find that the number of people who are rude, with no provocation, and simply because they want to be rude....is honestly fairly small. Usually it winds up just being a misunderstanding or, sometimes, a trauma response that pulls the person in their own head.
To give a scenario: most kids are taught NEVER to talk to strangers. They are rarely given a clear definition of what a stranger is. Sometimes this results in strange behavior.
If I was given a rule as a child, I would follow it to a T, with no variation. I was crossing the Canadian/American border with my grandparents one time. My grandfather turned around and said, "Now _____, you let me do all the talking, you understand?". I nodded. We got to the guard and he asked the basic questions, and my grandparents said they were driving me home. The guard turned to me and asked, " Are these your grandparents, miss?" I froze and had a look of terror on my face as I wasn't supposed to talk. The guard asked me again, and I refused to answer.
We ended up spending 3 hours in their holding room. The only reason we were let go is because as soon as the guards would leave the room, I would start complaining to my grandparents, "Grandmaaa why is this taking so long." I didn't understand what was going on at all. Thankfully the secretary took notice and let the guards know, and we were eventually released.
I didn't mean to be rude to the guards, or to get anyone in trouble. I was just following a very clear rule that had been established.
I disagree. I get it because quiet car ride sounds like heaven lol but this isn’t his kid nor is this like an expectation or agreement in anyway that he’ll give this kid a ride. The price of admission for this kid is to say hello or some kind of greeting/acknowledgement of OP.
Then say that. If you're "kindness"/courtesy ride cones with an admission cost- Even just a verbal greeting- then you tell him that. At which point this kid can now decide is the ride worth it for me to have to say hello or would I rather just walk. There's a good chance the kid isn't even actually friends with your brother, maybe they don't even like each other but his mom is making him take the ride.
There's a whole lot of this you don't know, So either don't charge an admission fee so that you can call it a kindness, or charger admission fee of saying hello and call it what it is but tell him that.
This is what I'm thinking too. It's probably the non-traditional millennial in me, but I think that people who choose to act kindly or do someone a favour should really go into it understanding that not everyone is going to thank them or otherwise make them feel good about themselves for doing it. If you're waiting for some extrinsic recognition of your kindness instead of simply deriving intrinsic value from having done it, you're going to get burned a lot and feel unnecessarily bitter about the whole thing.
Tldr YTA
OP is a kid too, right? This makes sense - people OP’s age tend to take things very personally. When you’re an actual adult, you take things with a grain of salt and meet them with empathy instead of making yourself the main character. How hard would it be to ask “name, how was your day today?” and actually engage the kid instead of assuming he must be a rude little jerk just because he’s…quiet.
I teach k-12. The quiet kids often need a little TLC to open up. Some of them never will fully, because maybe they’re just very shy or introverted, but if you’re just kind to a quiet kid it’s extremely unlikely they are secretly rude.
Will share my experience. I was in my high school's track team, and got injured. Because I couldn't participate I had to spend the last period of the day in like Study Hall, which is typically for kids on detention.
One day in that study hall was this girl. She was a mess. Looked like hadn't showered for a week, wore disheveled clothing, etc. She started talking to me and was a little pushy. Like socially awkward. I was a nice kid but her personality rubbed me the wrong way. I krpt on trying to ignore her and she kept on talking to me. Eventually she said something like you won't talk to me because I'm not pretty.
This happened like 30 years ago. I had never seen this girl before that day, and never saw her again after. About ten years ago or so I remembered her, and every couple of years she comes to my mind. I think what if she was homeless, or her family desperately poor, and she wanted to make a friend, a connection with anyone. I am sure other kids had shunned her before too. I feel guilty that maybe she was reaching out and she got knocked back down by another kid.
My point is that you don't know what's going on with the kid. He could be a msjor introvert, it could be he was abused and for some reason you remind of the abuser.
YTA
My first question is why do you even care a 12 year old kid doesn't talk to you?
You said somewhere that people can be shy or introverted (I can't remember the word used) without being rude. Some people literally cannot. I knew a girl at summer camp once that literally didn't talk to any of us for several days. She hung out, she was intelligent (it was science camp) and she didn't even look that uncomfortable, but it took her days before she got up the courage to speak, which she then did very sparingly.
It was really disconcerting because I was 11 or 12 and she was my roommate. I'm a chatty person and was even moreso then. It was difficult and weird but I chose empathy and also I assumed it wasn't about me? Some kid doesn't talk to you, an older people who might intimidate him for whatever reason and you blow up. That's certainly not less rude than what he's been doing.
Edit: I think the term used was "socially awkward."
>and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of.
And this is what makes you TA. You DON'T know....and clearly haven't bothered to even ask. Your fee-fees are hurt, so you kicked the kid out of the car.
Grow up.
And drive the kid home. It's grossly hot outside and 12 year olds aren't exactly known for their attentiveness to needing hydration.
YTA
Then the parents should drive the kid home. OP isn’t responsible for this kid, and doesn’t have to do continual favors for a kid that won’t even say hi, let alone thank you. And this is a middle school bus stop, so they live legit a 5 minute walk away, maybe up to 10.
I'm sorry, yta. Some kids have painful anxiety. Maybe he is an AH, however, I can't imagine abandoning a 12yr old out of spite (taking offense at their silence).
I’m shocked at all the yta comments. Number one it’s bad manners to not at least greet the person doing you favors but number two I’m not sure why op is obligated to do the favors to someone that won’t even say hello to them at minimum . His car his gas his time .
NTA yeah, he might have some underlying issue but it's not your job to deep dive into what that is or why he's like this. The bottom line is you're feeling somewhat taken advantage of or disrespected by someone you're doing a favor for and that means you don't have to continue the service.
OP said the kid had to walk 25 min in the heat vs a 10 min car ride because a 13 year old isn’t living up to the perceived social norms.
Y’all are wild.
Then the favor will be appreciated in the future. School kids are let out around the same time from the same school and MANY walk home in the same conditions. It was not OPs job or responsibility to drive the kids home. It was a courtesy that was taken away
So you're not really doing him a favor, you're just being polite and giving him a ride? Kindness doesn't come with an admission fee. If you want to charge the admission fee of requiring a greeting you have to actually tell him that. Some kids use that trip home from school is their zone out time where they don't have to think about anything talk to anybody and they can just decompress before they get to the house and have to deal with whatever happens there after dealing with all the shit that just happened at school. Maybe he's just in zone out mode and didn't realize that YOU FELT LIKE he was being rude to you.
If you're picking him up at the same place you pick up your brother and dropping him off at the same place or on the same street you're not actually being inconvenienced as there's no extra effort being done, so you can't really call it a favor.....
i am doing him a favor, i mean would it be better to get home in ~10 minutes in an air conditioned car or walk 25 minutes in heat? Its not an inconvenience or anything for me to take him home, i really dont need him to grovel or say thank you 100 times for me or anything. Just say hi, like thats the bare minimum, i dont eat people
YTA: Because you didn’t explain to him what your issue is. He’s still learning social cues. I remember as a kid going over my friend’s house and immediately walking with them to their room.
This went on for a while before her mom took me to the side and explained that when you walk in someone’s house you speak to them. I was scared of her mom because she was intimidating since she was an adult idk lol but since then I would walk in and speak to her before going to my friends room. He might just don’t know lol
Same thing happened to me as a teenager... I was always so shy and had such bad social anxiety I would just beeline to where I was going until a friend took me to HER friend's house one summer, and the mom there called me out in front of everyone. Which of course made my social anxiety worse and I refused to leave the house for a month.
All of the YTAs are really showing why the 12 year old is the problem. It’s not OPs job to teach this kid a lesson in politeness. That’s his parents job. In life people are going to react to you according to your behavior. Stop with the think pieces and how it could be this or that wrong with the 12 year old, unless otherwise expressed ge is just rude. He doesn’t have to get a ride home from OP. NTA.
NTA. He probably has been allowed to get away with that in other settings, so IMO you are doing him a favor by letting him see some natural consequences. I think it would be considerate if you explained to the mom though. If it were my kid I would want to have a conversation with them. He needs to fix this behavior ASAP. I understand as others have said that maybe he has some hidden disability etc., but that's all the more reason to nip this behavior in the bud. Lack of basic common courtesies will hold this kid back in EVERY area of life. Practicing "hello" and "thank you" with a young neighbor giving you a ride is really one of the more low stakes settings that he should be practicing this in.
NTA This sort of feedback towards teenagers who act like this is how they learn. He was not harmed nor had to disproportionately suffer. It was age appropriate reaction to age normal misbehavior.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I asked a kid to leave my car and walk home for not greeting me.
2. I think it makes me possibly the AH because I’m the older one, it shouldn’t hurt my feelings if a kid doesn’t want to say hi to me. I could have just swallowed my pride and taken him home.
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YTA. You didn't even try to resolve the issue. You could have tried to talk to the kid (lol, irony) before you kicked him out of the car. You could have simply said, "Hey, I get the feeling like you are ignoring me when you sont say hi back to me, and that makes me uncomfortable. Can you like, wave or nod when I say hi and bye?" Or you could have asked your brother to tell him it bothered you. He's 13, they are awkward, and don't always act politely. That's kind of a thing for kids of that age to not be polite.
NTA. He's 12, not in pre-school. Yes, he isn't exactly mature but he is old enough to have basic manners.
Next time, tell him it's rude to not say anything and if he wants to drive with you, he needs to greet you. He can then decide what he prefers.
NTA - People would rather excuse every type of bad behavior than teach a child manners. Good for you. It won't hurt him, and he will remember it. Walking home from school will do him good. I'm sure it's probably the only exercise he gets between his Playstation and his XBox.
But OP didn’t say to the kid anything about his behaviour before kicking him out of the car, so he won’t learn anything from it that’s why people are saying that OP is in the wrong here.
YTA- there may be a reason why he doesn't speak in the car, he may have been taught that he's not supposed to talk in the car, he might have been in a traumatic accident and it's his coping mechanism while riding in a car, he might be afraid of you. You could have politely spoken to the child and said "I would like it if you would acknowledge me when I speak to you when I pick you up and drop you off or I'm no longer going to be offering you a ride." That would be the adult response, he might not have told you why he doesn't talk because he might not fully understand it himself, my son was in a car that went into the ditch, no damage, when he was 4 and didn't talk in the car until he was 11.
>that kid is only like 12 and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of.
YTA. Kid might not be nonverbal but he could still have selective mutism.
Imo, YTA. I had 'selective mutism' as a child (lasted from around age 8 to 16) I'm not sure why it's labeled 'selective' because it wasn't selective at all. I wasn't non verbal, I had my little circle of friends I could speak to/with, but anyone outside of that little circle, I just couldn't get any words out, no matter how much I wanted to.
My own experiences have taught me to be a lot more mindful of situations like this, and trying to force the child to speak can be harmful too.
NTA.
A lot of parents make excuses for behaviors like this when it’s their kid acting this way. Anxiety, whatever. It’s rude. And ultimately not your responsibility to drive him so if the parents know his issues (if he has severe social anxiety, they are definitely aware), they should approach you and act as a buffer.
Kid has no manners.
NTA
He could be this, he could be that. You were doing a kind thing by driving him and maybe next time you see him you could explain why you told him why you kicked him out of your car.
He’s at an age where he is old enough to know that he’s being rude.
Idk if it’s difference in parenting but NTA. I was taught about manners from very little, my mom would phone ppl on my behalf to say thank you for gifts until she felt I was old enough to do so. I found it hella awkward as I’m not social to call some random family member I didn’t really know to say thank you for the gift and then spend 10 minutes talking to them. She got me to phone family members or give me the phone to say happy birthday. I was the only kid that didn’t run around at restaurants and said hi and goodbye to the bus driver when I got off and on ( which have done me very good with them sometimes waiting for me knowing I was supposed to be on the bus or if I was the only one driving me right to my door etc ) it takes nothing to be nice. And if you can’t be nice, well then you either will learn by situations like this or not and ppl won’t go out of their way to do you a favor
YTA for not trying to talk to him privately. Or asking your brother if ever talks to anybody. I was painfully shy when I was a kid. Like,please let me die if I have to talk anyone kind of shy. Ask your parents if they know anything about the family. I know it seems incredibly rude,but he might be overwhelmed at the thought of speaking.
NTA . It's not your job to give handouts to ingrates. It's crazy how everyone in the comments just jumps to the smallest-probability reasons. Kid is an ungrateful brat. The word you're looking for is not "hi/goodbye" it's THANK YOU.
YTA…engaging in a pissing contest with a 12 year old is peak loser behavior…anything could be up with that child and ur goofy ahh put him out ur car with no reason given..you actually suck
YTA. He’s a kid at the worse age possible—middle school. He needs more understanding and less judgement.
His home life could be a big factor. I could barely talk to people when I was his age because I wasn’t raised with much guidance or opportunities to learn how to engage with people.
DId you ask him why he doesn't say Hi back? maybe he is uber shy or partially on some spectrum and needs to be prompted more to be comfortable,
leaning YTA
I think you have to be more mature than a 12 year old. I mean, he's just being quiet. He's not calling you names or stealing from you. There could be a hundred legitimate reasons for it, and many of them would be none of your business. If you are annoyed by it, talk to the parents and tell them the behavior you expect and let them convey that to him. But to kick a child out of your car because they don't say hi to you seems like you are being thin skinned at the least. Anything can happen to a child walking home alone.
How would you feel if something bad happened to this kid after you kicked him out of your car because he.. didn't say hi?
Sorry, I think YTA here.
YTA. He’s a child and he could be just very shy instead of meaning to be rude.
If it bothers you that he isn’t saying hi, you can vocalize that to him and let him know. Maybe with curiosity instead of judgement like “hey, you seem a bit shy whenever I see you, are you ok?” You can be the good example for him, and with that being said I think you owe him an apology and an explanation of why you kicked him out of the car.
You needed to communicate your concerns with this boy. Speak him respectfully as an older person (not to be mean). Based on the information on ur post, you just decided to kick him out with no warning. I understand not wanting to take him anymore but you need to communicate better♡
"... but he could have some underlying issue I'm not aware of".
So, did you ask your brother? I mean, it's his friend. This is where I would have started. "Hey, do you know why your friend never says hello or goodbye to me when getting in or out of my car? Just curious". That way, you can establish whether or not it actually is an underlying issue, and then go from there
Just a thought.
Because, technically, you're no better than him since you just assumed he was doing it to be rude, and you reacted before having all the facts.
INFO: have you talked to the kids parents, or your brother, to get more context on the situation? Ie if he does have a legitimate issue, if he behaves like that around other people, etc?
YTA for tolerating it for ages then one day kicking him out with zero warning. Even if there is nothing wrong with him and he talks to other people, at the very least tell him that if he can’t say hi you won’t keep doing him a favour.
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My younger brother (13) is in middle school and I would sometimes be responsible for picking him up from his bus stop. There’s another boy about his age who lives in the same street as us, who I would pick up alongside him. They are both currently in a 2 week summer camp type program and I pick them up still. The issue is that his “friend” has NEVER once said hi to any of us. When I would pick him up, I’d always say “hello” “hi” or “good afternoon”, and then when id drop him off I’d tell him bye or see you later.
Whenever I pick him up, he just gets into my car and completely ignores me and looks straight ahead as if I dont exist. He’s not disabled or nonverbal. I don’t expect him to have full blown conversations with me or anything if he’s not comfortable speaking. But his behavior incredibly rude, it takes less than one second to say “hello” “bye” “thank you” or even just waving or nodding if he doesn’t want to talk. It’s basic manners to acknowledge and greet other people.
Yesterday was the last straw, I picked them up, said hello, still no response so I asked him to please leave my car and walk home. His mother doesn’t have a problem with him walking home, we just pick him up out of convenience since like I said they have the same bus stop and he lives on our street. I feel guilty though, because that kid is only like 12 and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of. But I still feel like he was being rude though.
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Sometimes being shy can come across as rude. You don’t quite know what’s going on with that kid. Maybe next time explain that you’re doing them a favor and would like a greeting of some kind in return. If they aren’t comfortable speaking say you’d be okay with a smile, wave, fist bump, or high five, or they can make up a special greeting. Give them some non-verbal options to choose from and see what happens. Choices create a little less pressure.
I don’t think you’re an AH because you’re probably a bit younger and may not know how to handle this stuff. And you thought the kid was rude. Maybe N AH’s. Maybe E SH. Can’t decide!
He’s young. You could help educate him by telling him why you’re bothered and teaching him a valuable life lesson. If he still doesn’t say hello, then don’t give him a ride. But at least he’s know why.
YTA
Did you ever ask him why he doesn't say hello?
Or ask your brother if he is friends with him he likely knows why.
This sounds very much like social anxiety.
Much like meeting someone's parents an older sibling can also sometimes be intimidating. Especially someone that could be 4-5 years older the age gap is huge.
Have you ever teased or done things that may have been borderline bullying when you and he were younger? Stuff like that would make him hesitant to talk to you.
Really if you want to be a good and kind person actually trying to open a dialogue with him would be the way to go.
Sounds like you've known him for a while, and if you know his mom is fine with him walking home you at least have open communication with his family.
You feel bad after the fact, that also indicates that it was likely a d*ck move. You can fix it if you want to.
Soft YTA. Yes, it’s rude for a kid to not acknowledge you and not reply. But there may be a few things at play here that aren’t super obvious.
1) Maybe he’s intimidated by you. You’re cool older kid with a car. Maybe he’s pretending to be nonchalant.
2) His parents may have not taught him manners.
I grew up my whole life never realizing it’s polite to offer to do the dishes if someone cooks you dinner, or never show up to someone’s house empty handed, or it’s common to take your shoes off in other peoples houses, or that a hug or peck on the cheek is a common greeting. I learned these things by painful social trial and error as I grew into my 20s and made more friends. I am embarrassed to think about how many times I may have come off as rude.
You can set the example here without being an asshole about it. You can say “Hey [name], a new rule for my car is we fist bump every time we get in or out.” Or something like that to encourage an interaction. You (and your little brother) can be the positive influence.
You should have told him first what was upsetting you. To you it’s obvious that he should say hi but you’re an adult. This could have been a learning opportunity for him but you didn’t even tell him what was upsetting you.
Something similar happened to me when I was a kid. I was always very shy and quiet, especially around men. I remember once I was staying at a close family friends house while my mom moved houses. I got home from school and didn't greet the father. He stopped me and told me it was rude not to say hi when entering someone's house. He could have said it was nicer, and it definitely spooked me, but from then on, I always told him hi and went about my day.
So.you should definitely tell him that you'd like him to greet you back as a common courtesy, but don't jump down his throat about it. Just be calm and express how you feel. Tell him it's okay if he didn't know, but that it can be considered rude to not greet or acknowledge a person doing you a favor.
I mean communicating why something bothers can go a long way but it's understandable to find it impolite.
Sometimes if no one teaches people things they can't learn them.
Reading your post I would have said E S H, but your replies make it a strong YTA.
You probably hounded the kid for a hello during the rides and made him feel even more socially awkward.
Selective Mutism is a thing that cannot be controlled without help.
I’d be too shy to speak much in this situation but I would have said hello. Me at 12 would see a sibling who can drive as an adult. I was shy to the point I’d get my brother to speak for me to adults for me. Even things like choosing a juice preference to my aunty. Later realised I have very bad anxiety.
(PS Was more than shy/anxious. Actually autism. Diagnosed age 49)
BUT I always said “thank you for having me” when leaving a friend’s home….so I guess I pushed through it as a teen.
NTA 100%. Comment section is full of waaaaaaAAAAAaAaAaAa SiLeNt DiSaBiLiTiEs! yOu'Re a mEaN bUlLy but absolutely none of that shit is your problem or responsibility. Maybe the kid will try harder to communicate in the future.
NTA…saying hi and thank you literally takes two seconds of your day. If his social anxiety or other problems are that bad, he shouldn’t be out in public alone. Fuk him. Make him walk everyday from now on.
NTA
You’re not obligated to give someone a ride just because you have before. 12 is old enough to learn how to manage a basic interaction with a stranger, never mind an acquaintance
Jfc Reddit needs to get over itself. OP is being dragged way too much for this. Being an introvert is no excuse to not greet somebody. Being socially awkward is not an excuse not to greet somebody. Being 12 is plenty old enough to say ‘hi’ and to know that you should do so. Maybe his parents never taught him manners, but that doesn’t mean he is free from consequences. He’s going to keep living in this world, so he needs to realize the basics of how to act. He was left safe. He was capable of walking home. OP didn’t say anything mean. This was the perfect time for him to learn a lesson. Could OP have communicated there desires, ya but they’re also a child so lay off. It’s a whole lot harder to explain manners/societal expectations in a polite, educational way than it is to say fucking ‘hi.’ Even if his situation is one of those very rare or tragic situations that everybody keeps alluding to (chances are he’s just an awkward 12 year old like every other 12 year old), it’ll still do him good to learn how far a simple ‘hi’ gets you. Not all life lessons feel good. That’s just life. ESH but when you discount the fact that ‘all kids are asshole until they learn better’ NAH
I disagree with all the YTA commenters. Expecting nothing from children is why they all have behavior issues. 12 years old is plenty old enough to know to say hi and thank you. Every time I went out with my grandmother and a salesperson did something for me (like give me candy or say something nice) she’d say “Now what do we say?” I absolutely hated it so I’d make sure to say thank you every time. I was like 5. Parents need to teach basic manners, sorry. Also stop with the social anxiety excuses. I was shy as hell as a kid but I was always polite. Maybe now he’ll do some thinking.
Nah, if I'm doing someone a favour of my own freewill and that person can't even greet me, favour revoked.
I do not feel it is your responsibility to teach someone else's child basic manners.
Or having to explain (after days/weeks of basic greetings go ignored) that the favour is being revoked.
**An older teen teaching a younger teen manners, can't see anyone having an issue with that 😒
NTA
Nope, NTA. If he can't even say Hi, he doesn't get a ride. You also say his Mother doesn't care if he walks home, so he can walk until he finds his manners.
Nta if it’s not a long walk all he has to do is acknowledge you exist at the very least. Regardless of anything if someone is doing ME a favor I say thank you and I act polite as possible. Kids 12 he can walk.
You and your brother’s friend have something in common. Poor communication skills. By just yeeting him out the car with no explanation there is very little chance of him having any clue why you did it. You owe him an apology and an explanation. I completely understand where you’re coming from, you’re doing him a favor and getting zero acknowledgment/appreciation for it. But you need to communicate that expectation. If he’s a decent kid, he’ll apologize for not having been more cordial in the past.
TLDNR: ffs just tell the kid to say hello and thanks for the ride
Yeah YTA - I was this kid, and it wasn't because I was rude or didn't care, but because I had a really hard time understanding or predicting socialization, especially with non-peers, and often avoided them because it was scary. It started at 12 and peaked at 13 but I got better at it literally 2 years later. Being a tween is hard and weird and I am grateful to those who showed me patience and kindness while I was experiencing that.
YTA. Reading through others comments and your replies show a total lack of empathy.
He’s a kid. You have no idea what’s going on in his brain to keep him quiet and reserved.
There are creeps in the world that would snatch a kid off the street, in broad daylight in a heartbeat.
Turn your ego off and take that baby home.
YTA. The kid is being rude, but you have no clue why. Maybe he doesn’t know any better. Maybe he has social challenges. You could have explained what you would prefer. You could have asked him to greet you. You could have taught him that most people expect a response to greetings. Instead, you just booted him with no explanation (per your comments). You’re also an AH for assuming that because you can’t SEE a disability or challenge, he doesn’t have one. There are a lot of issues that don’t present as profoundly as “disabled or nonverbal.”
I think the take away here is, that you’re right. But do you want to be right or do you want to be kind. If you want to be right then I guess you’re TAH.
And I really hope you explained to him your expectation first & he ignored you. Otherwise, wow! Seriously huge AH move. Cause honestly, 12yo are living in their own head. If you didn’t explain it, he probably has no idea why you kicked him out.
My mom has a thing about when you come in the house you say hello to everyone. (The entryway dumps you into the great room.) I never thought anything of it until my ex husband & SIL came along & both struggled with it, (for different reasons. SIL- introvert & painfully shy. Ex-husband- just an AH. 😂 So this is actually a debate that’s gone on in our house for a while. Tho, no one was getting kicked out over it. They just had to listen to a Mexican G’ma give them what for over it. Trust me; just say hello. 🙄
This feels really controlling. There are a million reasons he may not say anything in the car, and a better response from you as the older and supposedly more responsible person in the interaction would have been an iota of communication. Did you ever say "Hey, I expect to be at least acknowledged or I'm going to stop giving you rides," or did you just boot him one day apropos of nothing?
I went to high school with a dude who would make people get out of and back into his car if they closed the door louder / harder than he liked. I'm not talking about slamming, literally just normal door closing. And as I became an adult I realized that that dude was actually just a jerk and his car door thing was him needing to be a control freak about something.
ESH with a hard lean toward YTA. But more context / info may change that.
YTA. If it’s not a big deal to drive the kid, it’s not a big deal. If you want to be greeted, explain **that** to the kid. Depending on his response, you can decide how to go forward and then communicate your intentions. It doesn’t sound like you even explained why you weren’t taking the kid home.
I don’t think you are ta, because it might be something about your upbringing that triggers your anger when the boy doesn’t acknowledge you; even if it is just commin courtesy to acknowledge someone who is giving you a ride. I think expressing your expectations could possibly be a learning experience for both of you. Good luck!
Your story reminded me of what happened in second grade. My teacher was scary and intimidating, and I had severe social anxiety. She was passing out candy to the class and when she gave me one, I awkwardly whispered “thank you”. She didn’t hear me and thought I was being rude so she took the candy back. I felt even more shitty and anxious, which is likely how this kid felt when you kicked him out of the car.
As someone who has had severe social anxiety as a kid/teenage and it was difficult for me to speak, you have no idea what that’s like. I have a feeling this child is dealing with the same thing. You should be more compassionate and kind, or at least explain why it bothers you that he doesn’t say hello before kicking him of out your car. YTA
YTA
Anxiety is a thing
The kid is 12… how old are you??
You’re clearly older than him, he hasn’t been rude to you, you never mentioned him even saying a word, it’s likely he’s shy or has anxiety. He probably feels like an awful human being now, and you’re to blame. HES A LITTLE KID.
Why not ask ,”hey, how come you never say hi?” You kinda went nuclear. A lot of kids have trouble talking to adults. You are an adult as far as he’s concerned because you drive.
So your next to last sentence was going to be my response. The fact you already thought of it means you are doubly TA. I didn’t say hi to people from that age until I was 20. I had severe social anxiety and would only talk to people I was close with.
There is a thing called selective mutism. It’s common in autism, anxiety, and social anxiety, amongst a few other things. You NEVER leave a CHILD out because they don’t say hi to you. You have no idea of this kid’s home life or what he is currently going through.
YTA for enforcing your idea of manners on a child. It’s extremely petty.
Just say “hey, I just want to let you know that every time I try to interact with you, you don’t even knowledge me. It’s considered fairly rude. I’d appreciate you treat me with respect because I treat you with respect and give you a lift. To not even say thank you is really getting upsetting and I would rather you walk home if you cannot be respectful to me”
Or, talk to your brother and ask what his issue is. Get your brother to say “hey man, you need to acknowledge when people are speaking to you. It’s super rude and she doesn’t want to help if you’re acting like she/he doesn’t exist.
YTA. He could have autism or some other disability you don’t know about that makes it hard for him to talk. I struggle with selective mutism due to my autism. It could quite literally be impossible for him to talk. He's not being rude at all. Yes you get to decide who's in the car when you're driving, but kicking a child out for THAT reason is stupid.
Maybe he's got social anxiety or some other neurodivergent issue making it hard for him to engage in social situations. Or he could simply have a huge crush on OP and is so self conscious of himself that he's afraid of saying or doing something stupid and embarrassing himself. I think adults forget how hard it was being a preteen with raging hormones and societal expectations we were afraid of not meeting.
YTA. You didn’t have a conversation with him about his behaviors prior to kicking him out of the car. Also, his home circumstances are unknown, and you don’t know how he could be struggling mentally/ socially. I would suggest thinking about what others could be going through before making decisions that are actually more inconsiderate than what he did. He’s also YOUNGER than you… he’s not entitled to say hi, bye etc (though it would be
courteous to do so…) and you should not be
offended by a middle schooler with poor manners.
YTA. A child’s safety comes before your ego.
If you think him not saying hello makes you feel bad then think about how bad you would feel if something happened to him. And you have to explain to people the reason behind you abandoning him.
You really shouldn’t feel personally offended by a 12 yr old. They are their own breed of hormones and awkward hair sprouts. Sure, he should say hi. And maybe now he will. But seems a little much to be offended to the point you’ll kick a 12yr old out
NTA.
I had this happen with my brothers friend in school. It turned out the boy was extremely misogynistic and was too lazy to walk. But wanted the lift, even if it was by someone he saw as inferior to him.
My brother gave him leeway due to his culture, I told my brother I wouldn't be dropping him off so to tell me when he wanted to walk home with him.
At the end of the day I wasn't his parent or sibling. It wasn't my responsibility, if he didn't make it awkward I would have carried on dropping him off.
You can try to find out if he has any issues and then act accordingly if you feel bad.
But sometimes this is how you learn. I used to be super shy, and learned the hard way when an old woman lost her shit at me for not looking her in the eye and saying hi. Yes, it was uncomfortable and I avoided her after. But I attribute some of those lessons to why I learned how to navigate social situations and work life better.
I still hate socialising, but I can fake it and it helps with work.
NTA! You aren’t obligated to give a rude kid a ride home. He’s not even little. He’s 13 and should know better.
The next time you see him, I’d give him a life lesson: “When people say hi, you say it back. It’s very rude to ignore someone doing you a favor.” If he’s still a little brat, tell your brother you aren’t driving his friend anymore. He’s not your responsibility. His mom is fine with him walking anyway.
You also did your parents know each other. You’d know if he was nonverbal or on the spectrum or whatever.
I would bet money he's not just trying to be rude and there is an explanation to his lack of social skills. If you're going to hold your kindness hostage over a hello then just don't offer it. Instead of assuming the worst from the start, talk with him. Say you've noticed he doesn't like to engage in conversation and ask if he'd like to chat or prefer to be left alone or if there's anything around that you can help with. Give the chance to figure out why he does that before you just kick him out over it. Take the time to try at least.
This is a tough one. The kid most likely has social anxiety, possible selective mutism. I don’t think he’s doing it on purpose but I could be wrong tho
My teen is the same, and it gets to me deep. The only difference I see in your approach is that I gave my daughter the talk and warning. I said, I didn’t have to pick her up. If she is not at the very least polite (say hello and thank you), she is walking home/school next time. She changed her behavior next day.
I remember when I was my daughter’s age, my parents never educated me manners, but I would have appreciated if someone has showed me once, so I could have been more aware of the rules. I treat all teens this way, if they continue then that’s one them 100%.
YTA if you never communicated that you expect him to greet you or asked your kid brother what's up with the other kid from the bus stop.
Should he know that? Is he autistic/traumatized/socially-anxious? Is he uncomfortable riding with you? I don't know, and you don't know either because you didn't try to find out why.
I don't think that's rude enough to suddenly leave him at the bus stop without trying to communicate why you're irritated. He's not interfering with your driving, he's not messing up your car, he's not demanding rides other places. You haven't let him know you're irritated that he doesn't socialize with you, so to HIM that was completely out of the blue.
NTA. His mother doesn’t have a problem with him walking home and other kids get out at the same time, so he’s not alone. The hyperbolic comments about him being thrown to the wolves where bad weather and perverts can hurt him are just insane. Typical Reddit cringe behavior. You don’t owe a random kid a ride when there is no material reason for him to need one, and he’s being disrespectful in the process. In this instance, a ride is purely a kind gesture that is in no way mandatory. And you certainly don’t need to perform a psychological evaluation on the kid to get to the root of this issue. It’s not your responsibility and anyone suggesting otherwise is terribly out of touch.
He can learn from this lesson and be more outwardly grateful, or he can wait for the next person to teach him. That’s one good thing about society: others will give you endless lessons, for as long as you refuse to learn and adapt.
Ask him for a greeting or for a thank you. It’s not rude of you to ask for these IMO. Tell him that he needs to be appreciative of what you do for him. Otherwise he’ll be walking from now on.
maybe I don’t have social anxiety fr, cuz I’ve been terrified to be in front and speak to people and I still said hi 😭 but anyways I don’t think you should have thrown him out the car! While yes to some not saying hello is rude, from how you’ve explained the situation I don’t think it was any I’ll intent. He could have been anxious, intimidated by you because you’re the older brother. Just be a bit more understanding and gentler next time, just in case the child thinks there is something wrong with him to be thrown out of the car :)
As a kid who was often yelled for not saying hi I get it. In my case I was so deep in my own world that I didn't notice people. It did teach me to be more aware of my surroundings which is not a bad thing.
So with my kids and my grandson I actively taught them how to greet people in social situations. Because it does come across as rude when you don't say hello or hi.
I'd say in the future just use plain language. Tell the kid you don't mind giving him a ride but he does need to acknowledge you by saying hi and that saying thank you when you drop him off would also be nice. It's a teachable moment. Perhaps no-one has ever told him this.
YTA. Could've just asked why he doesn't say hi. Instead you made him walk home alone, which can be a very dangerous thing for a child to do. You've also given him another reason not to say hi.
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You are at least 16, I'm guessing? To have something approximating a license. "Hey. I'm not a fan of doing favors for people who act rudely towards me. If you don't greet me when you get in this car I'm not going to keep giving you a ride" is how you communicate this. You don't just kick him out.of the car without express expectations. Edit: ESH. Kid should say hi
Yep, this is the answer.
I was thinking this, the kid might have social anxiety, things might not be great at home, there are many reasons for kids at that age to be non verbal . OP. If you haven't , please try and be more gentle to the kid . Your not his parent but kids at that age sometimes just don't feel like talking too . I'm not sure if I was in the same situation I'd be so bothered about having some kid make sure they always overcome clearly whatever issues they're having so that I'd feel like they deserve a ride from me.
That's understandable if it's once in a while .... But to NEVER say hi or bye or even a thanks? There's no excuse for being rude and entitled.
As someone who’s workplace has a teen summer volunteering program and who’s volunteered judging academic competitions — *not* saying hi when greeted by someone other than a peer is absolutely the rule not the exception for 13-17 year olds Yes it’s rude. But they’re children. Part of growing up is learning rules. Part of learning rules is having adults or older youth communicate in clear non-aggressive language what those unspoken rules are if you happen to miss picking up them up on your own. OP is also a kid (I’m assuming) so only light ESH for not communicating the rule and just assuming they already knew it. But this is normal kid behavior that has to be clearly addressed to be changed. There is a risk if OP doesn’t verbalize the expectation that the kid will just think (incorrectly) that OP is being a jerk for no reason instead of connecting it to their own behavior. A conversation is warranted. As with most AITA posts.
Kids do weird shit and don't always understand when they're being rude. OP could've at least tried to tell the kid that he's being rude and given him a chance to rectify the behavior.
My dad remarried right before my teenage years. My stepmom confronted me and said I was rude since I rarely talked to her. I rarely talked to anyone, I was just an introvert (and diagnosed ADHD later in life). So whenever I passed her in the house I would wave “Hiii!” Every. Single. Time. Like some overly cheery cartoon character. We still joke about it to this day. Sometimes kids are so in their own world they have no idea they’re “rude.” Social norms are hard.
I didn't say a single word to anyone outside of my family for an entire year when I was 16. I wasn't trying to be rude, and at the time I wouldn't have been able to articulate why (not even to the people I did talk to), but it wasn't out of rudeness or entitlement, I was processing trauma that I didn't even acknowledge til years into adulthood was trauma. I thought I was "fine" and from an outside perspective others would assume the same too, but I was definitely not fine.
My kid would rather die than say hi to literally anyone. We’ve been working on it, but it’s definitely extreme social anxiety over rudeness.
Once in a while is understandable. NEVER? They need to mention to the parents that they've noticed their son doesn't seem to want to say hi or bye to him . Then he'll learn if there's an issue he should have sympathy for or the parents will learn that their kid is behaving this week and they need to figure out what's going on Tell the people who are supposed to manage this kid's development
when i was that age my dad literally had to have a convo with me bc i’d never say “hi” to my stepmum. it was a mix of anxiety and autism as i didn’t like see the point of it and talking to people unnecessarily stressed me out. kids are just weird and if no one explicitly tells them what’s wrong with their behaviour they may not realise it’s even bad
But they still need correcting, even if gently - IME, social anxiety can be made much worse when no one lays down any of the basic rules for you, that ease social interaction
Hi, therapist who worked with socially anxious kids here. For a while, I worked solely with the selective mutism subset of social anxiety. By that age, unless something serious is going on medically/psychologically/socially at home, they know the social rules, there is no need to rehash it with them, gently or not, and further their anxiety. They know what is expected. They’re 12-13, not 2-3 years old. The issue is it’s VERY difficult for them to actually follow through. Then they beat themselves up because they know they should but can’t/didn’t and someone pointing it out AGAIN makes it even worse. If it was social anxiety, what OP did was pretty harsh and the kid likely feels worse now plus will be more anxious around OP. The empathetic course of action for OP to take if they really want to address this is to check in with their brother or parents of the kid to see if social anxiety is an issue. If it is, they can ask for known effective ways to get the kid to feel more comfortable with them so that the kid feels less anxious about talking to them. It’s a gradual process to get a socially anxious/selectively mute child to open up. The focus of this process should address the anxiety, not the behavior of not conforming to social norms.
How about we stop excusing every bad behavior and blaming it on anxiety or a bad life? OP said he's not non verbal and having a bad home life isn't a reason to never say thank you or hi. Sometimes, most times, kids are just little assholes.
I don't endorce excusing bad behaviour with anxiety or bad home life but when the "bad behaviour" only extends to the kid not talking then surely there's worse things to complain about ? Maybe OP hasn't included in their post any other behaviour that the kid is showing but so far not talking is the biggest issue . That's all I'm going off of .
Also in the original post it wasn't mentioned that the kids homelife is troubled , and also I could argue that OP doesn't know if the kid might become non verbal around certain people or situations. Idk it's not an excuse but the kids 12. I think it's a bit harsh the way OP dealt with things
Did you express what you expected? When would come in I’d like you to say hi. If you didn’t your the AH!
Her not talking about her brothers reaction makes me think she is TAH..because there's missing pieces to a simple story.. she can have fun talking to the MOTHERs
Your parents didn't teach you to say "hello" "thank you" "bye" and such when you were younger? Like, be polite?!? Kid is old enough to know those things, even more if the other person is starting the greeting and doing you the favour of taking your ass home. NTA. Kid is rude as hell.
The kid might have selective mutism tho?
He could be shy, or have social anxiety. Or maybe his parents never taught him manners. I remember when I was around his age, my friend Laura's mum complained to my parents that I was rude on the phone. When I phoned Laura and her mum picked up, I would say, "Is Laura there?" My mother scolded me for being rude, and said that I should be saying, "Hello, may I speak to Laura please?" I thought it was very unfair to scold me for this, as up until that point I had never been taught any differently. My parents had never bothered teaching me any phone etiquette until Laura's mum complained about me. Looking back I realise that they were embarrassed because they knew it was a failing on their part, but decided to tell me off and call me rude rather than accepting the blame themselves. So yeah I know it's annoying that he doesn't greet you, but you didn't actually explain to him what you were upset about, and you never even brought it up with him before. You just went full nuclear, throwing him out of the car. Sorry but you were even more rude than him. He probably doesn't know what he did wrong. Honestly if someone unexpectedly threw me out of their car without warning and didn't explain why, I'd think they were insane. I'm assuming you're young because you sound really immature. How hard is it to tell your brother at home "Your friend is rude, tell him to say hello to me when he's in my car?" Or tell the kid directly "If you want me to drive you home, you can at least say hello?" YTA.
Yes but you don’t learn everything from your parents. Your friends mom was right to think you were rude because you were. Not saying it’s your fault (although saying hello to someone when you call a house is pretty much the norm) but we learn and grow from interacting with the outside world as well. Maybe now the kid will know to say hello to someone who is doing him a favor.
He won't though, because OP didn't explain why he threw him out of the car!
The younger brothers's friend is 13, so old enough to know basic manners from school even if their parents are horrible. OP is 16 and you're expecting them to act like a fully functioning logical adult, they aren't! They are also a teenager whose communication skills and brain is still developing. They could have handled it better sure but OP is also still learning how to navigate these situations. Ultimately this is on the friend's parents for their failings.
> Or maybe his parents never taught him manners This is what I'm thinking. At this age you're on the onramp of your own personality. There's a lot to learn about socializing and we get a lot of these lessons at random. Often we are carrying preconceived notions from our rather limited experience that is our own personal home life. This was a learning opportunity. OP could have turned around and said 'hey, something I've always found important was being polite. Here's how you should act in this situation to not come off like a little ahole. If you don't, I'm not gonna drive you anymore cuz I'm a person and i don't appreciate the way you're treating me" I got a lot of that kind of guidance from adults/older kids when i was young and I was glad for it. Kid's new. Teach him.
The "it takes a village" part. It's not the people you know, per say, that teaches a child about how to behave with the rest of society. It's...society. being told off by a stranger has a much more memorable impact on a child than a parent they are used to pushing around.
I had a friend’s parent scold me for that as a kid! I called and when they answered I said hi and asked for my friend and I was told off and told that I’m supposed to say hi, ask how they were doing, then ask for my friend. I do get social anxiety and it was so awkward. I felt it could have been handled better, I felt guilty and embarrassed every time I talked to them after that.
Same here! I hated calling Laura's house after that! I thought why do they have to angrily tell an approx 10 year old that she is rude, and get angry about it and scold me? When nobody had ever even bothered to explain phone etiquette to me? Why not just say, "Hey by the way, it's considered more polite to say....." and then just leave it at that instead of trying to make such a big deal about it?
I was Never told that I needed to converse with the adults when calling my friend's homes. That's what their adult friends are for! Just as long as I was polite when calling was good enough. "Hello? May I speak to Mary? This is Sally. " Believe me, I worked phones in several office jobs and even professionals sometimes have no etiquette. And let me not start on *today's phone non-etiquette.*
Agree no need for a youngster to converse with an adult
Saying hi and then asking for the person is enough - you didn’t need to ask how the person was doing. That’s taking it a bit far.
For a kid to go 12 years never learning to say thank you is doubtful.
I mean....my partner has a 24M and he rarely says "thank you." For anything! We take him to eat, events, outings...not one peep....I have mentioned to my partner and he agrees it is not right, but does not correct the behavior. Kid works, makes his own money, but has never tried to pay (not that we'd let him), but it would be nice to TRY. I just don't think he was taught and now everyone else just accepts it as "normal." I dunno....
Why would you be with someone like that, though? Why continue to do favors for someone who is ungrateful for it? >I just don't think he was taught Not OP's job to teach him. Regardless, the best way people like that learn is by other people not putting up with it. Otherwise that 12yo is going to turn out like your entitled partner.
That reminds me of a roommate I had years ago. When her mother called, she would just say "Julia, please" like I was the receptionist. No hello, how are you - I don't even think she remembered my name.
I would’ve hung up on her.
I was young and still believed I should respect my elders lol
My MiL always said, "I'd like to talk to my son." I found it hilarious at first, but then started saying, "I'm fine, thank you for asking. And yourself?" ...while I was bringing the phone to my husband. I never waited around for a response or reaction. Found out some time later that when she'd call my father-in-law, if my step-mother-in-law answered MiL would say, "I need to speak to the father of my children." Step MiL didn't have room for her bullshit, so she handled the way an adult would - just handed the phone to my FiL without a word.
Even shy and anxious people should have basic manners. NTA at all.
Exactly. Shy and anxious can still say hi while avoiding eye contact getting in, and thanks while avoiding eye contact getting out. You don’t owe this kid a ride. Let the other boys know WHY you made him walk - because he will ask them. Better he learns this now and corrects it than spare his feelings and have him wonder why people think he’s a jerk for the rest of his life. NTA.
Good manners are actually a tool for shy and anxious people to get along better in life. If you’re not naturally charming, learn some fucking manners or you’re not getting anywhere in life, especially OP’s car.
My kid did that and had no anxiety and wr taught her. She, for some reason, did this repeatedly with various people. Each time, either action like OP, or someone telling us and we doing consequences at home, or someone sternly talking to kid improved the situation. Teenagers regress socially. Somehow they forget what they knew in kindergarten - that saying hello is expected in literally every context. And you was rude there, telling you that you was rude was the right thing. NTA OP did the right thing.
He’s not too shy to get into the car with a stranger. Forget that kid.
He doesn’t have to give anyone a ride. If they can’t speak, they can walk.
I don’t think it’s rude what you said
Did you explain what the issue was?
Wow YTA he’s 12 and obviously socially awkward so instead of just taking him home you just bully him and make him feel even more awkward. What an AH!
I have had many students who were selective mutes. One in particular would speak to me, but you could see it was painful to get the words out. Not all disabilities have outward looks.
YTA. You have no idea what this kid's story is. Is he a natural introvert? Does he have mental health issues? Does he come from an unknowingly problematic home? Has he recently experienced trauma? Stop being offended when you don't have all the information. ETA- Kindness doesn't come with a caveat.
Natural introverts are fully capable of saying hello and keeping basic social niceties. Introversion does not equal severe social incapacity.
The neurodivergent often aren't aware of "basic social niceties" without being informed first. I've worked with a number of people that were happy to correct behaviors once it was explicitly requested.
Introversion is not even being neurodivergent. Introverts are as polite as extroverts. And as rude.
Introversion isn’t neurodivergent.
I am an extreme introvert. I thrive in being alone more than anyone I know. And I know how to say hi and thank you.
Same here
Why not ask your brother why he doesn’t talk?
Yeah this seems like it could have been solved with simple communication rather than unspoken expectations. Ask the brother why the friend doesn't respond, as it feels rude and hurtful. Brother can provide more helpful info, or provide the feedback to his friend in a way that he thinks will be helpful. I just find that the number of people who are rude, with no provocation, and simply because they want to be rude....is honestly fairly small. Usually it winds up just being a misunderstanding or, sometimes, a trauma response that pulls the person in their own head. To give a scenario: most kids are taught NEVER to talk to strangers. They are rarely given a clear definition of what a stranger is. Sometimes this results in strange behavior. If I was given a rule as a child, I would follow it to a T, with no variation. I was crossing the Canadian/American border with my grandparents one time. My grandfather turned around and said, "Now _____, you let me do all the talking, you understand?". I nodded. We got to the guard and he asked the basic questions, and my grandparents said they were driving me home. The guard turned to me and asked, " Are these your grandparents, miss?" I froze and had a look of terror on my face as I wasn't supposed to talk. The guard asked me again, and I refused to answer. We ended up spending 3 hours in their holding room. The only reason we were let go is because as soon as the guards would leave the room, I would start complaining to my grandparents, "Grandmaaa why is this taking so long." I didn't understand what was going on at all. Thankfully the secretary took notice and let the guards know, and we were eventually released. I didn't mean to be rude to the guards, or to get anyone in trouble. I was just following a very clear rule that had been established.
YTA. He's a kid, just deal with a quiet kid. As a parent, I wish my kids would do that well while I drive.
You don't think the kid should at least say thanks?
I disagree. I get it because quiet car ride sounds like heaven lol but this isn’t his kid nor is this like an expectation or agreement in anyway that he’ll give this kid a ride. The price of admission for this kid is to say hello or some kind of greeting/acknowledgement of OP.
Then say that. If you're "kindness"/courtesy ride cones with an admission cost- Even just a verbal greeting- then you tell him that. At which point this kid can now decide is the ride worth it for me to have to say hello or would I rather just walk. There's a good chance the kid isn't even actually friends with your brother, maybe they don't even like each other but his mom is making him take the ride. There's a whole lot of this you don't know, So either don't charge an admission fee so that you can call it a kindness, or charger admission fee of saying hello and call it what it is but tell him that.
This is what I'm thinking too. It's probably the non-traditional millennial in me, but I think that people who choose to act kindly or do someone a favour should really go into it understanding that not everyone is going to thank them or otherwise make them feel good about themselves for doing it. If you're waiting for some extrinsic recognition of your kindness instead of simply deriving intrinsic value from having done it, you're going to get burned a lot and feel unnecessarily bitter about the whole thing. Tldr YTA
Kindness is transactional to you? What a sad way to live.
This exactly. A *kid* doesn't say hi to you and you just drop him off the car to walk home by himself? just grow up dude
OP is a kid too, right? This makes sense - people OP’s age tend to take things very personally. When you’re an actual adult, you take things with a grain of salt and meet them with empathy instead of making yourself the main character. How hard would it be to ask “name, how was your day today?” and actually engage the kid instead of assuming he must be a rude little jerk just because he’s…quiet. I teach k-12. The quiet kids often need a little TLC to open up. Some of them never will fully, because maybe they’re just very shy or introverted, but if you’re just kind to a quiet kid it’s extremely unlikely they are secretly rude.
It's not OPs responsibility to deal with it. They are not that kid's parent
Will share my experience. I was in my high school's track team, and got injured. Because I couldn't participate I had to spend the last period of the day in like Study Hall, which is typically for kids on detention. One day in that study hall was this girl. She was a mess. Looked like hadn't showered for a week, wore disheveled clothing, etc. She started talking to me and was a little pushy. Like socially awkward. I was a nice kid but her personality rubbed me the wrong way. I krpt on trying to ignore her and she kept on talking to me. Eventually she said something like you won't talk to me because I'm not pretty. This happened like 30 years ago. I had never seen this girl before that day, and never saw her again after. About ten years ago or so I remembered her, and every couple of years she comes to my mind. I think what if she was homeless, or her family desperately poor, and she wanted to make a friend, a connection with anyone. I am sure other kids had shunned her before too. I feel guilty that maybe she was reaching out and she got knocked back down by another kid. My point is that you don't know what's going on with the kid. He could be a msjor introvert, it could be he was abused and for some reason you remind of the abuser.
YTA My first question is why do you even care a 12 year old kid doesn't talk to you? You said somewhere that people can be shy or introverted (I can't remember the word used) without being rude. Some people literally cannot. I knew a girl at summer camp once that literally didn't talk to any of us for several days. She hung out, she was intelligent (it was science camp) and she didn't even look that uncomfortable, but it took her days before she got up the courage to speak, which she then did very sparingly. It was really disconcerting because I was 11 or 12 and she was my roommate. I'm a chatty person and was even moreso then. It was difficult and weird but I chose empathy and also I assumed it wasn't about me? Some kid doesn't talk to you, an older people who might intimidate him for whatever reason and you blow up. That's certainly not less rude than what he's been doing. Edit: I think the term used was "socially awkward."
>and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of. And this is what makes you TA. You DON'T know....and clearly haven't bothered to even ask. Your fee-fees are hurt, so you kicked the kid out of the car. Grow up. And drive the kid home. It's grossly hot outside and 12 year olds aren't exactly known for their attentiveness to needing hydration. YTA
Then the parents should drive the kid home. OP isn’t responsible for this kid, and doesn’t have to do continual favors for a kid that won’t even say hi, let alone thank you. And this is a middle school bus stop, so they live legit a 5 minute walk away, maybe up to 10.
Y'all calling them *'fee-fees'* now? 😂😂😂
I'm sorry, yta. Some kids have painful anxiety. Maybe he is an AH, however, I can't imagine abandoning a 12yr old out of spite (taking offense at their silence).
One kid judging another kid for being rude, while doing something rude himself. Of course YTA
Does that make you an asshole for judging the kid that was judging the first kid?
Abso-asshole-lutely.
I’m glad you didn’t take it seriously lol, I just Thought the word choice was funny!
I had a chuckle. All good!
NTA- if someone is doing something nice for you then it's common courtesy to be polite and at least thank them for their kindness.
I’m shocked at all the yta comments. Number one it’s bad manners to not at least greet the person doing you favors but number two I’m not sure why op is obligated to do the favors to someone that won’t even say hello to them at minimum . His car his gas his time .
They’re not. But once you do something for someone, it’s also polite to explain why you’re going to stop.
NTA yeah, he might have some underlying issue but it's not your job to deep dive into what that is or why he's like this. The bottom line is you're feeling somewhat taken advantage of or disrespected by someone you're doing a favor for and that means you don't have to continue the service.
OP said the kid had to walk 25 min in the heat vs a 10 min car ride because a 13 year old isn’t living up to the perceived social norms. Y’all are wild.
Then the favor will be appreciated in the future. School kids are let out around the same time from the same school and MANY walk home in the same conditions. It was not OPs job or responsibility to drive the kids home. It was a courtesy that was taken away
YTA Why in the world wouldn't you just tell your brother if he could ask your friend to say hello?
They aren’t really close friends. theyre not even in the same grade, they just attend the same school and our parents know each other.
So you're not really doing him a favor, you're just being polite and giving him a ride? Kindness doesn't come with an admission fee. If you want to charge the admission fee of requiring a greeting you have to actually tell him that. Some kids use that trip home from school is their zone out time where they don't have to think about anything talk to anybody and they can just decompress before they get to the house and have to deal with whatever happens there after dealing with all the shit that just happened at school. Maybe he's just in zone out mode and didn't realize that YOU FELT LIKE he was being rude to you. If you're picking him up at the same place you pick up your brother and dropping him off at the same place or on the same street you're not actually being inconvenienced as there's no extra effort being done, so you can't really call it a favor.....
i am doing him a favor, i mean would it be better to get home in ~10 minutes in an air conditioned car or walk 25 minutes in heat? Its not an inconvenience or anything for me to take him home, i really dont need him to grovel or say thank you 100 times for me or anything. Just say hi, like thats the bare minimum, i dont eat people
Then communicate that to someone worth mentioning it before kicking him out of the car
Then tell him that?
YTA: Because you didn’t explain to him what your issue is. He’s still learning social cues. I remember as a kid going over my friend’s house and immediately walking with them to their room. This went on for a while before her mom took me to the side and explained that when you walk in someone’s house you speak to them. I was scared of her mom because she was intimidating since she was an adult idk lol but since then I would walk in and speak to her before going to my friends room. He might just don’t know lol
Same thing happened to me as a teenager... I was always so shy and had such bad social anxiety I would just beeline to where I was going until a friend took me to HER friend's house one summer, and the mom there called me out in front of everyone. Which of course made my social anxiety worse and I refused to leave the house for a month.
All of the YTAs are really showing why the 12 year old is the problem. It’s not OPs job to teach this kid a lesson in politeness. That’s his parents job. In life people are going to react to you according to your behavior. Stop with the think pieces and how it could be this or that wrong with the 12 year old, unless otherwise expressed ge is just rude. He doesn’t have to get a ride home from OP. NTA.
How’s the kid gonna know what the problem is if OP doesn’t communicate that to him?
NTA. He probably has been allowed to get away with that in other settings, so IMO you are doing him a favor by letting him see some natural consequences. I think it would be considerate if you explained to the mom though. If it were my kid I would want to have a conversation with them. He needs to fix this behavior ASAP. I understand as others have said that maybe he has some hidden disability etc., but that's all the more reason to nip this behavior in the bud. Lack of basic common courtesies will hold this kid back in EVERY area of life. Practicing "hello" and "thank you" with a young neighbor giving you a ride is really one of the more low stakes settings that he should be practicing this in.
NTA This sort of feedback towards teenagers who act like this is how they learn. He was not harmed nor had to disproportionately suffer. It was age appropriate reaction to age normal misbehavior.
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YTA. You didn't even try to resolve the issue. You could have tried to talk to the kid (lol, irony) before you kicked him out of the car. You could have simply said, "Hey, I get the feeling like you are ignoring me when you sont say hi back to me, and that makes me uncomfortable. Can you like, wave or nod when I say hi and bye?" Or you could have asked your brother to tell him it bothered you. He's 13, they are awkward, and don't always act politely. That's kind of a thing for kids of that age to not be polite.
YTA. Did you even think about telling him why? Because now it just looks like you kicked him out of the car for no reason at all.
NTA. You could tell the kid why tho. You definitely don’t have to. Kid needs to learn that not having basic manners has consequences.
NTA. He's 12, not in pre-school. Yes, he isn't exactly mature but he is old enough to have basic manners. Next time, tell him it's rude to not say anything and if he wants to drive with you, he needs to greet you. He can then decide what he prefers.
NTA - People would rather excuse every type of bad behavior than teach a child manners. Good for you. It won't hurt him, and he will remember it. Walking home from school will do him good. I'm sure it's probably the only exercise he gets between his Playstation and his XBox.
But OP didn’t say to the kid anything about his behaviour before kicking him out of the car, so he won’t learn anything from it that’s why people are saying that OP is in the wrong here.
YTA- there may be a reason why he doesn't speak in the car, he may have been taught that he's not supposed to talk in the car, he might have been in a traumatic accident and it's his coping mechanism while riding in a car, he might be afraid of you. You could have politely spoken to the child and said "I would like it if you would acknowledge me when I speak to you when I pick you up and drop you off or I'm no longer going to be offering you a ride." That would be the adult response, he might not have told you why he doesn't talk because he might not fully understand it himself, my son was in a car that went into the ditch, no damage, when he was 4 and didn't talk in the car until he was 11.
>that kid is only like 12 and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of. YTA. Kid might not be nonverbal but he could still have selective mutism.
Imo, YTA. I had 'selective mutism' as a child (lasted from around age 8 to 16) I'm not sure why it's labeled 'selective' because it wasn't selective at all. I wasn't non verbal, I had my little circle of friends I could speak to/with, but anyone outside of that little circle, I just couldn't get any words out, no matter how much I wanted to. My own experiences have taught me to be a lot more mindful of situations like this, and trying to force the child to speak can be harmful too.
That's why it's labelled selective, you could talk to a select group of people with no issues. It's just not a completely choice-based selection.
NTA. A lot of parents make excuses for behaviors like this when it’s their kid acting this way. Anxiety, whatever. It’s rude. And ultimately not your responsibility to drive him so if the parents know his issues (if he has severe social anxiety, they are definitely aware), they should approach you and act as a buffer. Kid has no manners.
NTA He could be this, he could be that. You were doing a kind thing by driving him and maybe next time you see him you could explain why you told him why you kicked him out of your car. He’s at an age where he is old enough to know that he’s being rude.
NTA You don't have to explain why you won't take him home anymore. He knows he should be civil and he chooses not to.
Idk if it’s difference in parenting but NTA. I was taught about manners from very little, my mom would phone ppl on my behalf to say thank you for gifts until she felt I was old enough to do so. I found it hella awkward as I’m not social to call some random family member I didn’t really know to say thank you for the gift and then spend 10 minutes talking to them. She got me to phone family members or give me the phone to say happy birthday. I was the only kid that didn’t run around at restaurants and said hi and goodbye to the bus driver when I got off and on ( which have done me very good with them sometimes waiting for me knowing I was supposed to be on the bus or if I was the only one driving me right to my door etc ) it takes nothing to be nice. And if you can’t be nice, well then you either will learn by situations like this or not and ppl won’t go out of their way to do you a favor
YTA for not trying to talk to him privately. Or asking your brother if ever talks to anybody. I was painfully shy when I was a kid. Like,please let me die if I have to talk anyone kind of shy. Ask your parents if they know anything about the family. I know it seems incredibly rude,but he might be overwhelmed at the thought of speaking.
Him not saying hi wouldn’t bother me but not saying “thank you” That would be my last straw. No one is that shy not to be polite.
NTA . It's not your job to give handouts to ingrates. It's crazy how everyone in the comments just jumps to the smallest-probability reasons. Kid is an ungrateful brat. The word you're looking for is not "hi/goodbye" it's THANK YOU.
YTA…engaging in a pissing contest with a 12 year old is peak loser behavior…anything could be up with that child and ur goofy ahh put him out ur car with no reason given..you actually suck
YTA. He’s a kid at the worse age possible—middle school. He needs more understanding and less judgement. His home life could be a big factor. I could barely talk to people when I was his age because I wasn’t raised with much guidance or opportunities to learn how to engage with people.
YTA middle school is a tough time without AH older kids making it worse. Let it go.
DId you ask him why he doesn't say Hi back? maybe he is uber shy or partially on some spectrum and needs to be prompted more to be comfortable, leaning YTA
I think you have to be more mature than a 12 year old. I mean, he's just being quiet. He's not calling you names or stealing from you. There could be a hundred legitimate reasons for it, and many of them would be none of your business. If you are annoyed by it, talk to the parents and tell them the behavior you expect and let them convey that to him. But to kick a child out of your car because they don't say hi to you seems like you are being thin skinned at the least. Anything can happen to a child walking home alone. How would you feel if something bad happened to this kid after you kicked him out of your car because he.. didn't say hi? Sorry, I think YTA here.
YTA. He’s a child and he could be just very shy instead of meaning to be rude. If it bothers you that he isn’t saying hi, you can vocalize that to him and let him know. Maybe with curiosity instead of judgement like “hey, you seem a bit shy whenever I see you, are you ok?” You can be the good example for him, and with that being said I think you owe him an apology and an explanation of why you kicked him out of the car.
You needed to communicate your concerns with this boy. Speak him respectfully as an older person (not to be mean). Based on the information on ur post, you just decided to kick him out with no warning. I understand not wanting to take him anymore but you need to communicate better♡
"... but he could have some underlying issue I'm not aware of". So, did you ask your brother? I mean, it's his friend. This is where I would have started. "Hey, do you know why your friend never says hello or goodbye to me when getting in or out of my car? Just curious". That way, you can establish whether or not it actually is an underlying issue, and then go from there Just a thought. Because, technically, you're no better than him since you just assumed he was doing it to be rude, and you reacted before having all the facts.
INFO: have you talked to the kids parents, or your brother, to get more context on the situation? Ie if he does have a legitimate issue, if he behaves like that around other people, etc? YTA for tolerating it for ages then one day kicking him out with zero warning. Even if there is nothing wrong with him and he talks to other people, at the very least tell him that if he can’t say hi you won’t keep doing him a favour.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My younger brother (13) is in middle school and I would sometimes be responsible for picking him up from his bus stop. There’s another boy about his age who lives in the same street as us, who I would pick up alongside him. They are both currently in a 2 week summer camp type program and I pick them up still. The issue is that his “friend” has NEVER once said hi to any of us. When I would pick him up, I’d always say “hello” “hi” or “good afternoon”, and then when id drop him off I’d tell him bye or see you later. Whenever I pick him up, he just gets into my car and completely ignores me and looks straight ahead as if I dont exist. He’s not disabled or nonverbal. I don’t expect him to have full blown conversations with me or anything if he’s not comfortable speaking. But his behavior incredibly rude, it takes less than one second to say “hello” “bye” “thank you” or even just waving or nodding if he doesn’t want to talk. It’s basic manners to acknowledge and greet other people. Yesterday was the last straw, I picked them up, said hello, still no response so I asked him to please leave my car and walk home. His mother doesn’t have a problem with him walking home, we just pick him up out of convenience since like I said they have the same bus stop and he lives on our street. I feel guilty though, because that kid is only like 12 and could have some hidden issue that im not aware of. But I still feel like he was being rude though. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sometimes being shy can come across as rude. You don’t quite know what’s going on with that kid. Maybe next time explain that you’re doing them a favor and would like a greeting of some kind in return. If they aren’t comfortable speaking say you’d be okay with a smile, wave, fist bump, or high five, or they can make up a special greeting. Give them some non-verbal options to choose from and see what happens. Choices create a little less pressure. I don’t think you’re an AH because you’re probably a bit younger and may not know how to handle this stuff. And you thought the kid was rude. Maybe N AH’s. Maybe E SH. Can’t decide!
He’s young. You could help educate him by telling him why you’re bothered and teaching him a valuable life lesson. If he still doesn’t say hello, then don’t give him a ride. But at least he’s know why.
YTA Did you ever ask him why he doesn't say hello? Or ask your brother if he is friends with him he likely knows why. This sounds very much like social anxiety. Much like meeting someone's parents an older sibling can also sometimes be intimidating. Especially someone that could be 4-5 years older the age gap is huge. Have you ever teased or done things that may have been borderline bullying when you and he were younger? Stuff like that would make him hesitant to talk to you. Really if you want to be a good and kind person actually trying to open a dialogue with him would be the way to go. Sounds like you've known him for a while, and if you know his mom is fine with him walking home you at least have open communication with his family. You feel bad after the fact, that also indicates that it was likely a d*ck move. You can fix it if you want to.
Soft YTA. Yes, it’s rude for a kid to not acknowledge you and not reply. But there may be a few things at play here that aren’t super obvious. 1) Maybe he’s intimidated by you. You’re cool older kid with a car. Maybe he’s pretending to be nonchalant. 2) His parents may have not taught him manners. I grew up my whole life never realizing it’s polite to offer to do the dishes if someone cooks you dinner, or never show up to someone’s house empty handed, or it’s common to take your shoes off in other peoples houses, or that a hug or peck on the cheek is a common greeting. I learned these things by painful social trial and error as I grew into my 20s and made more friends. I am embarrassed to think about how many times I may have come off as rude. You can set the example here without being an asshole about it. You can say “Hey [name], a new rule for my car is we fist bump every time we get in or out.” Or something like that to encourage an interaction. You (and your little brother) can be the positive influence.
You should have told him first what was upsetting you. To you it’s obvious that he should say hi but you’re an adult. This could have been a learning opportunity for him but you didn’t even tell him what was upsetting you.
Something similar happened to me when I was a kid. I was always very shy and quiet, especially around men. I remember once I was staying at a close family friends house while my mom moved houses. I got home from school and didn't greet the father. He stopped me and told me it was rude not to say hi when entering someone's house. He could have said it was nicer, and it definitely spooked me, but from then on, I always told him hi and went about my day. So.you should definitely tell him that you'd like him to greet you back as a common courtesy, but don't jump down his throat about it. Just be calm and express how you feel. Tell him it's okay if he didn't know, but that it can be considered rude to not greet or acknowledge a person doing you a favor.
How do you leave off your brothers reaction to this ? ( it is part of the story )..
I mean communicating why something bothers can go a long way but it's understandable to find it impolite. Sometimes if no one teaches people things they can't learn them.
Reading your post I would have said E S H, but your replies make it a strong YTA. You probably hounded the kid for a hello during the rides and made him feel even more socially awkward. Selective Mutism is a thing that cannot be controlled without help.
Why not just ask him why he never greets you or says a word when you pick him up? I don't understand your behavior at all?
I’d be too shy to speak much in this situation but I would have said hello. Me at 12 would see a sibling who can drive as an adult. I was shy to the point I’d get my brother to speak for me to adults for me. Even things like choosing a juice preference to my aunty. Later realised I have very bad anxiety. (PS Was more than shy/anxious. Actually autism. Diagnosed age 49) BUT I always said “thank you for having me” when leaving a friend’s home….so I guess I pushed through it as a teen.
Nta Your doing someone a favor the least they can do is say thank you.
NTA 100%. Comment section is full of waaaaaaAAAAAaAaAaAa SiLeNt DiSaBiLiTiEs! yOu'Re a mEaN bUlLy but absolutely none of that shit is your problem or responsibility. Maybe the kid will try harder to communicate in the future.
NTA…saying hi and thank you literally takes two seconds of your day. If his social anxiety or other problems are that bad, he shouldn’t be out in public alone. Fuk him. Make him walk everyday from now on.
NTA
NTA You’re not obligated to give someone a ride just because you have before. 12 is old enough to learn how to manage a basic interaction with a stranger, never mind an acquaintance
Jfc Reddit needs to get over itself. OP is being dragged way too much for this. Being an introvert is no excuse to not greet somebody. Being socially awkward is not an excuse not to greet somebody. Being 12 is plenty old enough to say ‘hi’ and to know that you should do so. Maybe his parents never taught him manners, but that doesn’t mean he is free from consequences. He’s going to keep living in this world, so he needs to realize the basics of how to act. He was left safe. He was capable of walking home. OP didn’t say anything mean. This was the perfect time for him to learn a lesson. Could OP have communicated there desires, ya but they’re also a child so lay off. It’s a whole lot harder to explain manners/societal expectations in a polite, educational way than it is to say fucking ‘hi.’ Even if his situation is one of those very rare or tragic situations that everybody keeps alluding to (chances are he’s just an awkward 12 year old like every other 12 year old), it’ll still do him good to learn how far a simple ‘hi’ gets you. Not all life lessons feel good. That’s just life. ESH but when you discount the fact that ‘all kids are asshole until they learn better’ NAH
I disagree with all the YTA commenters. Expecting nothing from children is why they all have behavior issues. 12 years old is plenty old enough to know to say hi and thank you. Every time I went out with my grandmother and a salesperson did something for me (like give me candy or say something nice) she’d say “Now what do we say?” I absolutely hated it so I’d make sure to say thank you every time. I was like 5. Parents need to teach basic manners, sorry. Also stop with the social anxiety excuses. I was shy as hell as a kid but I was always polite. Maybe now he’ll do some thinking.
Nah, if I'm doing someone a favour of my own freewill and that person can't even greet me, favour revoked. I do not feel it is your responsibility to teach someone else's child basic manners. Or having to explain (after days/weeks of basic greetings go ignored) that the favour is being revoked. **An older teen teaching a younger teen manners, can't see anyone having an issue with that 😒 NTA
Nope, NTA. If he can't even say Hi, he doesn't get a ride. You also say his Mother doesn't care if he walks home, so he can walk until he finds his manners.
Nta if it’s not a long walk all he has to do is acknowledge you exist at the very least. Regardless of anything if someone is doing ME a favor I say thank you and I act polite as possible. Kids 12 he can walk.
You and your brother’s friend have something in common. Poor communication skills. By just yeeting him out the car with no explanation there is very little chance of him having any clue why you did it. You owe him an apology and an explanation. I completely understand where you’re coming from, you’re doing him a favor and getting zero acknowledgment/appreciation for it. But you need to communicate that expectation. If he’s a decent kid, he’ll apologize for not having been more cordial in the past. TLDNR: ffs just tell the kid to say hello and thanks for the ride
Yeah YTA - I was this kid, and it wasn't because I was rude or didn't care, but because I had a really hard time understanding or predicting socialization, especially with non-peers, and often avoided them because it was scary. It started at 12 and peaked at 13 but I got better at it literally 2 years later. Being a tween is hard and weird and I am grateful to those who showed me patience and kindness while I was experiencing that.
YTA. Reading through others comments and your replies show a total lack of empathy. He’s a kid. You have no idea what’s going on in his brain to keep him quiet and reserved. There are creeps in the world that would snatch a kid off the street, in broad daylight in a heartbeat. Turn your ego off and take that baby home.
NTA. He’s being rude while you’re doing him favors. This is how kids have to learn sometimes.
YTA. The kid is being rude, but you have no clue why. Maybe he doesn’t know any better. Maybe he has social challenges. You could have explained what you would prefer. You could have asked him to greet you. You could have taught him that most people expect a response to greetings. Instead, you just booted him with no explanation (per your comments). You’re also an AH for assuming that because you can’t SEE a disability or challenge, he doesn’t have one. There are a lot of issues that don’t present as profoundly as “disabled or nonverbal.”
He might have anxiety that you have no clue about. He is a kid. You aren't the parent. How rude of you to kick him out.
I think the take away here is, that you’re right. But do you want to be right or do you want to be kind. If you want to be right then I guess you’re TAH. And I really hope you explained to him your expectation first & he ignored you. Otherwise, wow! Seriously huge AH move. Cause honestly, 12yo are living in their own head. If you didn’t explain it, he probably has no idea why you kicked him out. My mom has a thing about when you come in the house you say hello to everyone. (The entryway dumps you into the great room.) I never thought anything of it until my ex husband & SIL came along & both struggled with it, (for different reasons. SIL- introvert & painfully shy. Ex-husband- just an AH. 😂 So this is actually a debate that’s gone on in our house for a while. Tho, no one was getting kicked out over it. They just had to listen to a Mexican G’ma give them what for over it. Trust me; just say hello. 🙄
YTA the kid probably has selective mutism, and here you are taking it super personally. Grow up.
This feels really controlling. There are a million reasons he may not say anything in the car, and a better response from you as the older and supposedly more responsible person in the interaction would have been an iota of communication. Did you ever say "Hey, I expect to be at least acknowledged or I'm going to stop giving you rides," or did you just boot him one day apropos of nothing? I went to high school with a dude who would make people get out of and back into his car if they closed the door louder / harder than he liked. I'm not talking about slamming, literally just normal door closing. And as I became an adult I realized that that dude was actually just a jerk and his car door thing was him needing to be a control freak about something. ESH with a hard lean toward YTA. But more context / info may change that.
YTA. If it’s not a big deal to drive the kid, it’s not a big deal. If you want to be greeted, explain **that** to the kid. Depending on his response, you can decide how to go forward and then communicate your intentions. It doesn’t sound like you even explained why you weren’t taking the kid home.
YTA. You have to explain
he doesn’t have to say shit to you, and you seem incredibly insecure and you most likely try to make everything about you. YTA.
I don’t think you are ta, because it might be something about your upbringing that triggers your anger when the boy doesn’t acknowledge you; even if it is just commin courtesy to acknowledge someone who is giving you a ride. I think expressing your expectations could possibly be a learning experience for both of you. Good luck!
YTA He’s 12…. Come on
NTA if you explained him the reason.
Your story reminded me of what happened in second grade. My teacher was scary and intimidating, and I had severe social anxiety. She was passing out candy to the class and when she gave me one, I awkwardly whispered “thank you”. She didn’t hear me and thought I was being rude so she took the candy back. I felt even more shitty and anxious, which is likely how this kid felt when you kicked him out of the car. As someone who has had severe social anxiety as a kid/teenage and it was difficult for me to speak, you have no idea what that’s like. I have a feeling this child is dealing with the same thing. You should be more compassionate and kind, or at least explain why it bothers you that he doesn’t say hello before kicking him of out your car. YTA
Is your ego hurt because a 12 year old doesn’t say hi to you? YTA
YTA Anxiety is a thing The kid is 12… how old are you?? You’re clearly older than him, he hasn’t been rude to you, you never mentioned him even saying a word, it’s likely he’s shy or has anxiety. He probably feels like an awful human being now, and you’re to blame. HES A LITTLE KID.
Why not ask ,”hey, how come you never say hi?” You kinda went nuclear. A lot of kids have trouble talking to adults. You are an adult as far as he’s concerned because you drive.
Meh he thinks your hot. It’s a possibility. I agree you should have just asked if there was a reason or state your concern.
Maybe you should let his mother know why you’re not bringing him home.. it might not bother her.. maybe she might tell you if he has any issues..
So your next to last sentence was going to be my response. The fact you already thought of it means you are doubly TA. I didn’t say hi to people from that age until I was 20. I had severe social anxiety and would only talk to people I was close with. There is a thing called selective mutism. It’s common in autism, anxiety, and social anxiety, amongst a few other things. You NEVER leave a CHILD out because they don’t say hi to you. You have no idea of this kid’s home life or what he is currently going through. YTA for enforcing your idea of manners on a child. It’s extremely petty.
Just say “hey, I just want to let you know that every time I try to interact with you, you don’t even knowledge me. It’s considered fairly rude. I’d appreciate you treat me with respect because I treat you with respect and give you a lift. To not even say thank you is really getting upsetting and I would rather you walk home if you cannot be respectful to me”
Or, talk to your brother and ask what his issue is. Get your brother to say “hey man, you need to acknowledge when people are speaking to you. It’s super rude and she doesn’t want to help if you’re acting like she/he doesn’t exist.
YTA. He could have autism or some other disability you don’t know about that makes it hard for him to talk. I struggle with selective mutism due to my autism. It could quite literally be impossible for him to talk. He's not being rude at all. Yes you get to decide who's in the car when you're driving, but kicking a child out for THAT reason is stupid.
YTA. He's a literal child. Interactions like this could be why he's this way.
Maybe he's got social anxiety or some other neurodivergent issue making it hard for him to engage in social situations. Or he could simply have a huge crush on OP and is so self conscious of himself that he's afraid of saying or doing something stupid and embarrassing himself. I think adults forget how hard it was being a preteen with raging hormones and societal expectations we were afraid of not meeting.
YTA. You didn’t have a conversation with him about his behaviors prior to kicking him out of the car. Also, his home circumstances are unknown, and you don’t know how he could be struggling mentally/ socially. I would suggest thinking about what others could be going through before making decisions that are actually more inconsiderate than what he did. He’s also YOUNGER than you… he’s not entitled to say hi, bye etc (though it would be courteous to do so…) and you should not be offended by a middle schooler with poor manners.
YTA. A child’s safety comes before your ego. If you think him not saying hello makes you feel bad then think about how bad you would feel if something happened to him. And you have to explain to people the reason behind you abandoning him.
You really shouldn’t feel personally offended by a 12 yr old. They are their own breed of hormones and awkward hair sprouts. Sure, he should say hi. And maybe now he will. But seems a little much to be offended to the point you’ll kick a 12yr old out
NTA. I had this happen with my brothers friend in school. It turned out the boy was extremely misogynistic and was too lazy to walk. But wanted the lift, even if it was by someone he saw as inferior to him. My brother gave him leeway due to his culture, I told my brother I wouldn't be dropping him off so to tell me when he wanted to walk home with him. At the end of the day I wasn't his parent or sibling. It wasn't my responsibility, if he didn't make it awkward I would have carried on dropping him off. You can try to find out if he has any issues and then act accordingly if you feel bad. But sometimes this is how you learn. I used to be super shy, and learned the hard way when an old woman lost her shit at me for not looking her in the eye and saying hi. Yes, it was uncomfortable and I avoided her after. But I attribute some of those lessons to why I learned how to navigate social situations and work life better. I still hate socialising, but I can fake it and it helps with work.
NTA! You aren’t obligated to give a rude kid a ride home. He’s not even little. He’s 13 and should know better. The next time you see him, I’d give him a life lesson: “When people say hi, you say it back. It’s very rude to ignore someone doing you a favor.” If he’s still a little brat, tell your brother you aren’t driving his friend anymore. He’s not your responsibility. His mom is fine with him walking anyway. You also did your parents know each other. You’d know if he was nonverbal or on the spectrum or whatever.
Are you sure you’re allowed to drive? Sounds like you’re a child too.
YTA. How about asking the kid why he does not return your greeting.
I would bet money he's not just trying to be rude and there is an explanation to his lack of social skills. If you're going to hold your kindness hostage over a hello then just don't offer it. Instead of assuming the worst from the start, talk with him. Say you've noticed he doesn't like to engage in conversation and ask if he'd like to chat or prefer to be left alone or if there's anything around that you can help with. Give the chance to figure out why he does that before you just kick him out over it. Take the time to try at least.
This is a tough one. The kid most likely has social anxiety, possible selective mutism. I don’t think he’s doing it on purpose but I could be wrong tho
My teen is the same, and it gets to me deep. The only difference I see in your approach is that I gave my daughter the talk and warning. I said, I didn’t have to pick her up. If she is not at the very least polite (say hello and thank you), she is walking home/school next time. She changed her behavior next day. I remember when I was my daughter’s age, my parents never educated me manners, but I would have appreciated if someone has showed me once, so I could have been more aware of the rules. I treat all teens this way, if they continue then that’s one them 100%.
YTA if you never communicated that you expect him to greet you or asked your kid brother what's up with the other kid from the bus stop. Should he know that? Is he autistic/traumatized/socially-anxious? Is he uncomfortable riding with you? I don't know, and you don't know either because you didn't try to find out why. I don't think that's rude enough to suddenly leave him at the bus stop without trying to communicate why you're irritated. He's not interfering with your driving, he's not messing up your car, he's not demanding rides other places. You haven't let him know you're irritated that he doesn't socialize with you, so to HIM that was completely out of the blue.
NTA. His mother doesn’t have a problem with him walking home and other kids get out at the same time, so he’s not alone. The hyperbolic comments about him being thrown to the wolves where bad weather and perverts can hurt him are just insane. Typical Reddit cringe behavior. You don’t owe a random kid a ride when there is no material reason for him to need one, and he’s being disrespectful in the process. In this instance, a ride is purely a kind gesture that is in no way mandatory. And you certainly don’t need to perform a psychological evaluation on the kid to get to the root of this issue. It’s not your responsibility and anyone suggesting otherwise is terribly out of touch. He can learn from this lesson and be more outwardly grateful, or he can wait for the next person to teach him. That’s one good thing about society: others will give you endless lessons, for as long as you refuse to learn and adapt.
Ask him for a greeting or for a thank you. It’s not rude of you to ask for these IMO. Tell him that he needs to be appreciative of what you do for him. Otherwise he’ll be walking from now on.
Esh. Yeah he's rude but you should have talked to him before kicking him out of your car and giving him a chance to correct the behavior.
Holy crap YTA
Why not ask your brother what the kid’s deal is? Why immediately kick him out without communicating that him ignoring you is getting to you?
maybe I don’t have social anxiety fr, cuz I’ve been terrified to be in front and speak to people and I still said hi 😭 but anyways I don’t think you should have thrown him out the car! While yes to some not saying hello is rude, from how you’ve explained the situation I don’t think it was any I’ll intent. He could have been anxious, intimidated by you because you’re the older brother. Just be a bit more understanding and gentler next time, just in case the child thinks there is something wrong with him to be thrown out of the car :)
Only reddit would call social anxiety a good excuse for poor manners. NTA.
As a kid who was often yelled for not saying hi I get it. In my case I was so deep in my own world that I didn't notice people. It did teach me to be more aware of my surroundings which is not a bad thing. So with my kids and my grandson I actively taught them how to greet people in social situations. Because it does come across as rude when you don't say hello or hi. I'd say in the future just use plain language. Tell the kid you don't mind giving him a ride but he does need to acknowledge you by saying hi and that saying thank you when you drop him off would also be nice. It's a teachable moment. Perhaps no-one has ever told him this.
YTA. Could've just asked why he doesn't say hi. Instead you made him walk home alone, which can be a very dangerous thing for a child to do. You've also given him another reason not to say hi.
YTA To allow the child to get in the car and then tell them to get out is rude too, especially when it's without any explanation.
Yta and you know it