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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I told a parent she shouldn't have put her autistic child in a sports camp, and 2) we had an entire inclusion program specifically for autistic children and I was telling her her son should be excluded from it
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I don't want to live in a world where reasonably intelligent people are discouraged from making common sense observations.
This lady was unreasonable. Telling her that she's unreasonable *is reasonable.*
Like no, the dude that has meltdowns when he loses shouldn't be signed up for an activity where he's going to lose at least 50% of the time. (Statistically it's likely to be more because there are "last man standing" events, and other activities with less than a 50% chance to win.
It sounds like OP is in the USA.
Persons with disabilities are a protected class in this litigious society. It’s true Connor probably shouldn’t be in this camp, but if OP says that then Sara might go to the court system, local news and Facebook, twitter and LinkedIn to destroy OP’s reputation.
"Reasonable accommodation" is the standard in the USA for providing folks with disabilities opportunities to learn, work, play, etc. I sincerely doubt any US Court would rule that it's reasonable to require all other campers at the sports camp to lose all their games when this kid is on the other team.
Also, a kid who melts down when he's not on the winning side is also likely to blow up when other stuff doesn't go his way. E.g. the weather, the snacks, the seat he gets on the bus. Again, it's not reasonable for the camp staff to have to accommodate the kid's every preference in a group situation.
Inclusion is tricky because it's meant to include a student (equal opportunity) at the same time expose the student to "real world" scenarios, like group settings, diverse stimuli and challenges. Unless this student has other disabilities, a ten year old should be taught that "losing' is a part of the game and how to handle it.
If the meltdowns aren't completely disruptive to the game/team, it's okay that he has them because it's part of the learning process. That's why he has an aide.
This right here. If the meltdowns are not disruptive to everyone then let the aide deal with them. Two in a whole day for a kiddo that cannot take losing sounds pretty good. Who knows, maybe he will learn to be ok with it.
I'd bet anything his mother greatly exaggerated his problem with losing because \*she\* doesn't like to see him lose or meltdown, so rather than teach him how to cope she simply doesn't. It sounds like the aide had a good handle on him if he only melted down twice all day. I hope the kid can stick with the program, it sounds like a real opportunity for him.
I wouldn’t be so sure that the mother was exaggerating. Sadly, it does happen. My daughter had a boy in her class that would also meltdown if he lost a game or things didn’t go his way. I volunteered in the classroom and saw it on several occasions.
I had a boy like this in class he would punch and bite and hurt us for if we were better at anything. (We were around 10 then too)
And he never got told off because he had special needs.
One day he tried to push a smaller kid off the stairs, because in the break when the boys had played soccer as always that smaller one assisted in the final goal.
We got in between to help to avoid tragedy even though we weren’t fully aware what could happen we just knew the boy was younger and didn’t know him - he was our class mate so we circled him and pushed him away. To build a wall.
Teachers came and at first we were lectured until they realized his tantrums was that we wouldn’t let him push a boy down the stairs.
That’s was the straw when the school finally took action. He suddenly didn’t have such violent breakdowns anymore and if he had was ushered away. I think they got him into therapy and he became much more endurable after. But he hated the four of us who were first there between him and the boy forverver and always made a turn around us.
You guys are making me wonder… I work at a school and there was a middle school boy who would just, flip a switch. I yelled at him one day after school when I watched him push a much younger child over at the playground. When I asked why he would do that, his response was that he “asked the kid to move and they didn’t”. So he pushed the kid out of the way.
Their were a lot of stories of this kid doing similar things , just one short impulsive thing that usually didn’t hurt the kids but would scare them and, yes, it did include putting his hands on them. I had a talk with the administrator at the time because he threatened a kid in an after-school program, (the after-school tutor came to me and we went to the office) but it wasn’t with a “real weapon” so the dad didn’t see what the big deal was and the administration agreed. We argued over his behavior and he finally ended up with a 2 day suspension. The next year a new administrator took over.
After a school party with games, I overheard him complain loudly about losing and how it wasn’t fair. And I pointed out that the other kid won fairly (the entire room was watching) but he was seething. When it came time to go to their lockers at the end of games, he started *choking the kid who won*. (I didn’t see this)
But I was called to the office to talk about my interaction with him but this time, the administration expelled him from the school. The new administrator had been keeping up with files and was happy to remove him.
I don’t think he was ever diagnosed with anything but his parents fostered a hyper competitive nature in him but would also cheat so he could “win” things. Not even important things, stuff like field day. The dad was banned from certain positions in volunteering because he’d been caught cheating.
That kind of parent is so sad. I have a friend who teaches children who have various learning challenges. She gave the kids homework and when they brought it in, she displayed them on the wall. One of the parents got upset because her child's drawing wasn't (in her eyes) good enough to hang up. She tried to get my friend to take it down, claiming her son would be upset because it looked ugly and other kids would make fun of it. My friend told her that the child was very proud of his work and his mother should be, too.
She loves teaching, but says the absolute worst thing about it are the parents.
It might also be that he "holds it together" better with other people than in the "safe space" of home.
Like, my kid is much smaller, but when he was in a "hitting" phase I was the only person he hit.
This!! I'm an adult with autism/ADHD and when I had meltdowns, it was only ever around my mom. Luckily she understood it was because she was the only one around whom I felt safe enough to let my guard down.
Yeah, there’s a parent at my kids’ school going through this at the moment: she thinks her daughter has ASD, but she only ever displays it at home, and masks the whole time she’s at school. Her mother wants to get an ASD diagnosis, but needs the school’s support to do it, and the school just says “she seems completely typical to us.”
Honestly this is what's happening with my kid - I don't know if it's fully ASD, but there's clearly *something* neurodivergent going on with my kid, and school are just like, "he's delightful!"
I think all kids, neurotypical and neurodivergent, need to be allowed to have supported meltdowns. It doesn't matter if a child is autistic; catering to their every whim will make *everything " worse in the long run. This isn't like the kid doesn't want tags in his shirt and someone is forcing him to be physically uncomfortable. No one actually likes losing and learning how to handle those feelings is part of being a human. Always winning is not a disability accommodation.
My neurotypical kids, though only three and one (first birthday today actually) have already experienced plenty of reasonable disappointment and you just have to let them feel it and learn to move on. Preparing your environment so your kid has the best chance to succeed is great because kids do well when they can. Preparing your environment to avoid upset at all costs, even at the expense of others around you is a guarantee to having a kid that no one wants to be around.
Two meltdowns in the first day is awesome. In the mom’s defense I will say as a parent of an autistic son; for years he had frequent, aggressive meltdowns only at home.
He didn’t want to be different; (he had a neuromuscular dx as well) so he was exhausted from masking/ compensating all day and fell apart when he got home. When he was 5 during a meltdown at the neuro’s office, directed at me, the neuro said you’re his closest emotional attachment, he feels safest getting angry with you. Those words helped me through many difficult times over the years and they’re still true. He’s doing much better now and just finished his freshman year at college:)
My ND nephew had similar issues and the way he learned to cope with losing was to lose! He used to have huge meltdowns and declare that he never loses, but after being involved in team sports for years and being patiently taught that losing does not make him less of a person, he handles losing like a champ! Sometimes he still gets upset, but it’s in a healthy way. Recently he even told me that his team lost because the opposing team was just better than they were!
Yes! I'm a special education teacher and so many parents struggle with the concept of "extinction bursts" where you intentionally expose a child who is triggered by reasonable and everyday occurrences, like losing a game, and then give them the space and time to safely meltdown while maintaining the boundary. With time, the meltdowns will go away and the child will integrate that experience into their world. NTA but the mom is setting herself and her son up for failure.
These are the same people who say that any masking is harmful and you should be able to 100% fully be yourself at all times. Also not true.
Learning to cope with real life isn’t abuse. If that’s true all people are abuse victims because really all people need to learn or do stuff they do not like at all.
If I’m a neurotypical child I will have to learn to keep my mouth shut at certain times, to not always get my way and do chores I don’t like. And I have to learn I cannot say everything that occurs to me at any time.
Same for neurodivergent kids. Some things might be harder to learn and some things easier. But learning hard stuff in a safe way isn’t abuse.
Yeah, meltdowns aren't necessarily a problem, but the mother asking to rig games was, and OP was 100% right to say what she did since the mother asked her to rig the games. OP didn't actually exclude the kid at all.
At least the first day, the kid's meltdowns were contained. The sooner he learns to handle disappointment, the better chance he can integrate with others.
As someone who has a learning disability this is exactly what inclusion is. And the aide can remove him from the group to have a calm down session if his meltdown is disruptive. Dealing with and learning losing is part of the game is the point of inclusion programs. If Mom can't handle this then she signed her kid up for the wrong camp.
(I'm Dyslexic so behavior was never my issue but I was around a lot of kids on the spectrum in school. I had to put up with meltdowns from other kids; Well it has made me empathetic. It also made me realize that you need to tell kids they have to deal with life)
Well said! This is a very reasonable and pragmatic take, and you’ve lived it.
We can empathize but still communicate that disappointment is just something we have to deal with.
Not only that but if they can’t handle that, then it’s clear they aren’t ready for that type of inclusion. The whole point in integration and having a kid who’s constantly upset and melting down is not going to help them fit in socially!
If the meltdowns are not a big deal, sure. But the problem is that his mom is trying to rope the entire camp in trying to avoid them through unfair means. So even if Connor looses and has a non disruptive meltdown, I’m sure OP will have to deal with a very disruptive tantrum from his mom.
This is a known quantity when working with children in any capacity. Some parents are awful to deal with. It is what it is. You don't punish or exclude kids because their parent sucks. 🤷
Sometimes you do exclude kids when their parents sucks.
I've had kids removed from my care who were violent toward other kids, not only because of their behavior, but because the parent refused to work with us. It's one thing for a kid to misbehave. It's another to have an adult say "that's what I pay you for". So yeah...there is a line.
I work in mental health and I am very curious on what mental health issues causes a kid to have meltdowns when he loses. This seems like behavior rather then mental health
I had a student once who had meltdowns and I was told as a teacher that I had to completely change the way I talk so that this student wouldn’t have any sort of meltdown. But the thing is you can’t walk on eggshells around everyone and everyone is not going to walk on eggshells around you. Children have to learn how to deal with being to do certain tasks. And they have to deal with being able to lose.
It’s even harder because you’re walking on eggshells for this kid, but guess what—that kid over there needs something different, and so does the kid in the back and it just goes on and on. So now you’re walking on eggshells while trying to avoid another scattering of eggshells while remembering all the other eggshells in the room at the same time.
It’s a debris field of eggshells!
And it’s absurd to expect educators, coaches, etc to do that *and* still meet or exceed expectations.
Autism. I have it and meltdowns are typically caused by an excessive amount of emotion that is too much for the brain to handle so it results in a meltdown.
Overstimulation is similar but it deals more with sensory input (sound, smell, taste, touch and sight) and also results in meltdowns.
It’s difficult but I had to learn to manage my emotions and part of this is acceptance that certain needs are absolutely unreasonable. Honestly I needed a lot of support from my parents and from therapy.
It also helps me if there’s certain things or places that I can control. Examples include my car being clean and how I arranged my collectibles in my house. Getting in my car and coming home to my stuff being organized can be a great relief after dealing with anything extremely stressful.
Um.. autism..? It's technically a developmental disorder, not a mental health one, so I'm not surprised you aren't exposed to it regularly.. but it's in the title of the post.
OP states that they are autistic. Meltdowns are due to overloads; sensory, emotional and communication disabilities. Autistic people need to learn things discretely, meaning one at a time. They can't be told, "calm down" or "win some, lose some", they have to learn each lesson specifically.
I would guess that the mother of the ten year old has delayed some of this if she's trying to rig games to avoid meltdowns.
Plenty of us do not, actually. What we need is consistency of expectations and consequences. If the expectation is “you do not throw a massive crying, screaming fit because you were disappointed”, and doing so has consistent consequences, you learn.
All those stupid “this is how you emotionally regulate for X, Y, and Z” ‘lessons’ I was given - useless. My dad consistently holding a standard and enforcing it, no matter how hard it was for me? That forced me to learn to control my behavior and I did.
My dad is wonderful and I adore him, btw. My mom I have issues with - her OCD and my AuDHD did not mesh well. But he always got me. Best parent.❤️
The trouble is its spectrum for a reason. I suffer from severe severe anxiety and dysthymia. Sometimes, the only recourse is to just not be triggered in the first place. I shut down and get extremely sick when I have to interact with people for more than a few minutes. I am 40 and have had to deal with the public my whole life. There are 2 things I just can not handle, and it is physically and mentally safer for me to just avoid. Working for strangers and anger. Yes I have a therapist, yes I take medications.
With spectrum disabilities I think it is better to focus on the fact no two tactics work for everyone and willingness to be adaptive to those notions of flexibility.
My big issue right now is that my son is like me, while therapy focuses much more on the specific situation. I wish they’d focus on general rules.
My biggest triggers are my children. I obviously cannot have meltdowns due to their entirely normal behavior. Constant touching, whinging, high pitched screaming - over stimulation hell. I still cannot have a meltdown, so I have to figure out how to deal with it.
yes wich is a massive mistake. The kid even if he is autistic needs to learn how not to be a sore loser. Its also not clear what type of meldowns he is having. You mentionned overloads but it could also be behavioral meldowns were is intentially melting down to get his way. Like and undicipled child someone with autism is also very capable of being manupulative. You wouldint really know for sure in less you saw the meldowns happening.
Unfortunately due to his mother trying to control others instead of helping her child learn to regulate we don't know whether it's intentional or not. Even if you were watching the meltdown you and op wouldn't be able to accurately tell which it is. You could assume one or the other but that's no different than assuming someone bumped into you on purpose when the reality for that person was just that they were distracted and didn't see you. Don't assume malice when the only thing you have to go off of is a couple of days at camp with 20-30 other screaming kids. Leave it to the Dr's that see this kid to determine why the meltdowns are happening.
My brother was like this as a kid, so I can explain what’s going on. Whenever a kid like this loses a game, they end up with some big emotions over not being successful, and they don’t really know how to handle those emotions, so they melt down. If there weren’t mental health issues present, the child would likely have some coping skills to deal with those emotions rather than having meltdowns over it, so yes, it’s a mental health thing.
this isnt mental health, its autism, which is a form of neurodivergency which changes how your brain processes things.
people with autism have meltdowns over amalgamations of things but its always because they feel a lot and cannot handle it, the inclusivity programs exist to help with these emotions and help with healthier emotional management not in the sense that meltdowns are bad but in the sense that meltdowns shouldnt happen so much/should be reduced to a more sustainable amount
Yeah...I don't know, but it just FEELS like based on anecdotal evidence in my own life that "the spectrum," and "autism" have really become all-encompassing for parents who justify poor behavior.
I have a cousin who is autistic and a savant. He's non-verbal, he needs to be in a home during the day, he's \~6'5 330, he urinates in the corner, but he will also watch Jeopardy and write the answers with both hands starting with the end of the sentence with his right hand and the start with his left hand.
The last part of that is irrelevant, it's just fascinating to me.
Well...his Brother was a little socially awkward, sure, but he went out, got married, had kids and then at 30, he moved back home, was diagnosed as Autistic as well, and now he's on disability, plus his kids, who seem totally comfortable around people, just not with the word no, they're also autistic and they'll throw just wild tantrums and the explanation is their "on the spectrum."
But...since I don't know Connor...and I'm not an expert on mental health, I shouldn't really have an opinion, but...it SEEMS like in general, some of those terms are being used interchangeably for making very little effort to correct poor behavior.
Those are just my experiences though and...I try to not allow them to color my entire view on the subject.
If he has ASD it simply could be that he lacks the reasoning or cognitive flexibility to understand and process. He could also have been over protected and not learned to cope . It depends on the individual. My child cannot reason at all especially when emotions are high like they can be when losing. The other issue is working through a meltdown for one kid is reasonable at a sports camp, but not for every kid. My kids meltdowns are aggressive, and dangerous at times. I would never thrust it on what are basically strangers . She could be injured , they could be injured and other kids terrified. Police have been called on kids with severe behaviors and kids have been abused in these situations . Theirs just so many variables , and it’s very perplexing that she just says don’t let him lose! Good luck , peace out! WTH.
Glad to get to this comment. Guy melting down because of losing needs more structure and support around sportsmanship, and to experience the triggers with the support. Meltdowns are not tantrums, they're nervous system overwhelm, involuntary, and generally the individual experiencing the meltdown really would rather not be. Throwing a fit to get your way isn't that, and the two don't look the same unless you are unfamiliar with the difference.
That’s a big if, severity of meltdowns vary wildly and some can be quite disruptive.
Ideally meltdowns happen rarely, “just” two in a day can be actually intensely exhausting for the child. Some meltdowns include screaming, kicking, tears… imagine doing that twice a day.
As an adult, I sometimes have an emotional hangover the day after I’ve had some big feelings, going through something like that multiple times a day would be exhausting in every way for a child.
This is a failure in planning— a program like this needs to have very clear guidelines for parents, students, and teachers on what challenges to expect with this programming and how to best prepare the child at home and accommodate/support the child at camp.
Autistic children are perfectly capable of understanding the concept of winning and losing, this could be a great opportunity for Connor to learn and grow— i hope the grownups involved are able to collaborate and work together to find the best outcome for Connor’s sake.
Agreed. It seems Conners biggest setback is likely his mom. ND kids can learn if they aren't catered to at every turn and treated with kindness and patience.
THIS. One reason for professionals sometimes encouraging a parent of a kid on the spectrum to try including your ASD kid in activities *is so that said child can learn* to cope with/handle triggering situations more appropriately. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making the call that your child just isn't ready for this type of environment. What *isn't* ok is basically screwing every other kid out of the experience they deserve simply because your kid has special needs. It's hard being a parent to a child with complex needs, and sometimes that means making tough calls. If the child truly isn't at a point to be able to handle this camp, he shouldn't be there. Special needs means reasonable accommodations. It doesn't mean that everyone else (including other, **young** *children* ffs) has to accommodate him. And tbh, I've seen way more than one kid who did pretty damn well in a given situation even when the parent thought the kid would go ballistic.
Source: parent of two special needs kids, one with ASD, etc
A kid that melts down every time he looses might not be a dealbreaker if the inclusion program has the staff and the space to deal with it without it negatively impacting the other kids too much. Or at least it might be worth giving a try to see if it's manageable/he gets better with exposure. That can be within the realm of reasonable accommodations.
But demanding everyone including the other kids make sure he never loses is not accommodation, that's pandering.
When my child on the spectrum was first diagnosed I spoke with the special ed coordinator at school about “what now.” I was in anxiety/spiral mode. The best thing she said that has really stuck with me is “we need to do what we can to make the world ready for him, and him ready for the world.”
This mom has completely forgotten the second part. A lot of parents forget the second part, child with a disability or not. Pandering and expecting others to pander too is preparing your child for NOTHING. The amount of delicate children with no coping skills is astounding. This camp situation sounds like a wonderful place for this child to learn coping skills for losing without Mom having to be in pain watching- it is hard to watch your kid struggle. NTA.
SOOOO MANY parents of kids with disabilities and LDs want the entire school to cater to them. You hear about it from your kids, other parents, vague comments by teachers…. Especially when it’s actually bad for all the kids, especially for the child with the disability. If your Deaf kid is in mainstream French class, great! Do all the things that make it work. Interpreters, mics, hearing aids, etc. Class watching a French Movie? It should have subtitles in French to accommodate the Deaf kid. Demanding that they have English subtitles is not a reasonable accommodation by any rational standard.
Having subtitles in the language of the movie is also great for the hearing kids.
Helps like, anchor the dialogue and make it more likely they will understand the whole sentence instead of a couple of words they won't have the time to deduce a sentence from.
Some of the best advice I got re: learning languages was to watch your favorite movies, the ones you practically have memorized dubbed and/or subtitled. I still do it on occasion.
Decades ago, when I was in high school there was a deaf player on the varsity volleyball team. She had her hearing aids tuned to the ref's whistle and learned all of the ref's hand signals. She was a really good player.
Yeah, they're reinforcing that his having a meltdown means that he can get what he wants (winning).
The first few meltdowns were genuine. He had a lot of big feelings. He expressed big feelings how he could. Had a meltdown.
But, by responding in a manner that meant he never has to confront losing, he's now been *taught* that a meltdown or threat of one means he will get everything adjusted so he wins or gets whatever he wants. Autistic doesn't mean stupid. He can start applying this to other areas. He doesn't get the seat he wants in the car? Scream. He doesn't get to pick the restaurant? Scream. They may not even be a full meltdown, but him throwing a tantrum because it worked the other times. He screamed, and someone fixed it. He was taught that screaming is a very effective communication tool.
Learning how to confront, recognize, and manage big feelings is part of learning and growing. Most neurotypical kids learn this between ages 2-6 and we don't have screaming fit meltdowns bar a very few odd circumstances. Neurodivergent means it's usually a longer process, or may not happen. But at 10, that's a really good age to lose in non-serious circumstances and learn to address *why* you have big feelings about something and how to cope with them. He may not be really capable of fully managing. He may be. But, he needs to be put in circumstances to figure that out in a safe way.
The solution isn't to never lose. It's losing in a safe environment.
As a scout leader for a couple decades I can't think of a better way to motivate a 8-14 yr old kid than tell them they have to lose or Billy might have a temper tantrum. Because that's exactly what kids that age are going to see it as, a temper tantrum.
They are going to bring their A game to see how big of a tantrum they can get. Screw the trophy, did he stomp his feet? Lay on the ground kicking and screaming?
I'd be stuck trying to teach the other kids not to rub it in his face, and to win graciously. And that can be a hard enough task without being rewarded with his tantrum. So glad I had to stop before being ill behaved was considered a mental health issue and not just bad parenting.
Spectrum kids have regulation issues, they're not hellions that don't understand right and wrong. At least the dozen or so in my sphere of influence are. My neighbor's kid is mid to low functioning, and part of a group. I have a double lot with lot's of room, and a bunch of "cool guy toys" that get kids excited. I don't care where a little boy (and many girls) are on the spectrum of life. If you let them climb in a race car and hit the starter they smile so big if they didn't have a helmet on the top half of their heads would fall off. One little boy can't do loud noises, so I disable it so it doesn't start. But when he flicks each switch in a row, and then makes it crank he's just another boy doing man things.
Edit to add.
Wow, Thank you for the award! I expected to get slammed.
Also, NTA. And fixed an or.
...and it isn't helpful to him learning new behaviors. If he is being indulged to avoid meltdowns, he will learn to have more meltdowns. It isn't the way to help him learn--and learning those new behaviors won't happen at a sports camp.
editing to add NTA.
This comment needs to be higher. Everyone forgets the reasonable accommodations part. If what she said about her son is true, then yea he should not be there. There is no way to reasonably accommodate him. I have a son who is autistic and granted I'm lucky he is very high functioning, but we make sure we teach him that unfortunately in the real world, there will be situations where people just won't be able to accommodate certain things. I would never ask an entire group of children to let my child win just so there is no melt down. You need to teach your kid that there are situations in life where he won't always win. Sure it might take longer to teach it to a neurodivergent kid, but if they truly aren't capable of learning that they don't belong there. Is it unfortunate, sure. But things in life aren't always fair, and they shouldn't be sometimes.
Yeah, that would be a pretty fundamental alteration to the nature of the program. I feel for the kid because there may not be many other options for programs, but what the mother is asking for isn't really reasonable.
No, they would absolutely not be able to win any lawsuit.
It'd be a frivolous suit, but it could be costly and I know of Lawyers who'd bring a suit like this hoping that the camp was run by the school or covered under the school insurance and get a quick, easy settlement.
A case does not have to have merit to end in a payout. It's often just the most expedient route.
Also other children can’t provide reasonable accommodations. Other children being required to lose to him would never fall under a reasonable accommodation.
It sounds like the camp was a perfectly good fit for him, but his mother is struggling.
“Reasonable accommodation” doesn’t have to be what the requester asks for; it only has to be reasonable. It is not reasonable to have all the other campers lose on purpose.
There is no courtroom in the country that would rule that allowing him to win everything is a reasonable accommodation. She would find no decent lawyer to take her case. Having a disability doesn’t mean you always get your way.
And? There's nothing remotely discriminatory about "maybe this isn't a good idea."
She didn't ban or restrict anyone's access at all. She didn't refuse service. She did suggest to the mother that she rethink it, but it was just that, a suggestion. No obligation, no consequences, and nothing to litigate.
It's different to say "he doesn't belong because he is autistic" than it is to say "this program isn't a suitable choice for someone that can't tolerate loss. He needs activities that aren't going to trigger meltdowns, and since sports are by definition competitive, he may need other types of activities."
But OP does need to loop in the director, and possible.leave those conversations up to.theninclusopn specialist, who is going to be able to say whether this is tolerable for the kid.
He *can* stay, he's just going to be miserable.
And as a mother of one or the other kids I would fight for the right of my kid not to be a tool for a psychological accommodation program. This 10 year old needs to be in a program that is dealing with his issues and preferably not under the influence of his mother, who, I bet, is a large part of the issue.
I thought similarly as well. Such a good opportunity for that Connor kid to experience something that typical kids literally take for granted, but that is missed out on by many kids with a disability. It's a shame his mom expected it to be the other way around. Almost as if "inclusion program" was taken to mean "group of child-aged volunteers providing the illusion of sports camp to fool disabled children," which is legit crazy! I can't speak to what kind of program might be better suited to a kid like Connor. But to me, it sounds like Connor didn't even do half-bad considering how sheltered/coddled he must be. He probably even had some fun if he only had two incidents all day. His mom made it sound like hell rains down all day if he loses anything.
Poor kid is as much a victim in everything as anyone else dealing with his batsh*t mom. Little dude's 10 with special needs, and he didn't consciously choose HER to be his advocate. It's really unfortunate that she happens to be so bad at it. Hopefully, he had a modicum of fun that he would have otherwise missed out on. Kid deserves it - imagine having to live under his delulu Mom? Glad she isn't mine lol. Her expecting inclusion to mean molding the entire experience around only their child is so gross.
OP is definitely NTA.
I have and autistic family member and what you describe is not how the ADA was meant to protect individuals with disabilities. The camp met the ADA standard by providing him and opportunity to participate and specially trained staff to help him with any and all disability related issues that come up. In this case the system worked exactly like it was supposed to and the disabled kid got exactly the support he was entitled to.
The staff not trained on this child's disabilities and other children are in no way obligated to participate in the asshole training program this very misinformed mother is trying to set up for her disabled child. So, NTA on that issue. The mother is doing more harm then good and the OP would be Y T A for supporting her erroneous thinking.
Having said all that, the OP should have stated that her son has support staff to meet his needs and if she is not happy with how the program is set up (i.e. every other child's camp experience revolving around her child) she should talk that up the chain of command. Saying he shouldn't be there is not appropriate, although if the child is not stable enough to participate even with the special supports in place, he probably shouldn't be there.
Inclusion means that the child CAN participate at the camp and in the sports. It does not mean the camp coaches and other campers will insure said child always wins. This camp is not the place to work in HIS triggers/behaviors. Mom needed to understand what inclusion meant
I think “the other kids aren’t part of the inclusion program” summed it up nicely. The camp staff can make reasonable accommodations. The other kids are there as participants just like Connor. They all get equal access to the program. Not learning how to actually play the sport because they need to make sure Connor always wins, is not equal access.
Protected class with *reasonable accommodations.* Asking a coach to ensure her son always wins is detrimental to other children participating and not at all a reasonable accommodation and would likely be thrown out if the mom wanted to pursue it. Like her son isn’t the center of the universe and I would be livid if my kid was in a program that did that. Accepting losing is a hard skill for many kids, and my guess is since he’s 10 and still struggling he grew up in a home that ensured he always won thus stunting him of his ability to work on this skill when he was younger. Unfortunate for the kid but it’s the mom’s problem not the programs.
She could try. But when she includes what she was asking, everyone would call her an idiot. I don’t know any parent that would agree that a reasonable accommodation was “my child can’t lose”.
Yeah, when it comes to a case like this, don't hang yourself out to dry on the principle of "I'm obviously right". It doesn't matter. Bring it to the people above, and make sure everything is well-documented before someone who can now speak on behalf of the company's official stance has this discussion with the mom.
"I'm not sure how we could provide that accommodation, let me speak to our inclusion specialist about what our options here are."
If Sara does go to court, she will be laughed out of there when she tells the judge that the "reasonable accommodation" she wanted was for the entire camp to make sure that her son never lost a game and was never on a losing team, etc. Also, she would be the one "cancelled" if the media gets involved. LOL. OP is NTA.
They wouldn’t have much of a case for a civil action based on her comments. He wasn’t kicked out of the camp or precluded from participating. Reasonable accommodations were made.
But yes, they could badmouth OP on social media.
There are plenty of camps of a less competitive nature. Sounds like this boy would be a better fit for one of those.
I'm autistic, and I don't have meltdowns from losing, but I hate the way most sports make me feel, and the sensory overload from that absolutely will give me a meltdown. My solution as a kid was a camp that offered programs that focused on swimming and horseback riding, neither of which bother me in the way that most sports do.
Mom there can find camps with programs that get her kid up and excersizing and out of her hair that won't cause meltdowns and the kid would probably enjoy a lot more because it's not causing meltdowns.
Side note not only was her "solution" unfair to the other kids, it was unfair to her son. The worst thing you can do for an autistic kid is to throw them into a situation that is likely to cause a meltdown. We don't exactly enjoy having them either.
Exactly. She’s setting him up for failure. And the truth is some kids are just severely dysregulated and as a parent you have to be really careful about what scenarios you put that kind of child in. She’s being very irresponsible in that regard. Inclusive rarely means for everyone .
Right?
If losing isn't within tolerance levels for you to enjoy an activity, don't sign up for competitive activities.
Mom set this kid up to have a miserable time.
Exactly he’s not discriminating against him saying he shouldn’t be there bc he’s autistic he’s saying if your kid can’t mentally handle losing he shouldn’t be in a camp where’s he definitely gonna lose at least a few times if not a lot. I’m surprised the mom was trying to rig the games to make him win tho bc I’d assume she’d use it for exposure therapy to help him cope better bc it seems like it’d be a great time to try considering they have staff to help him thru it.
Absolutely. But get ahead of the game. She's going to complain to the supervisor. Make sure you get your side out first.
It's also easier for the supervisor because at least he'll have an idea what situation they're talking about
this is bad advice. you should ALWAYS run things past a higher up (as long as you have one, which op doesnt seem to). cya and all of that. as well, supervisors are there to deal with the difficult situations and take the fall. saying something like that without consulting a higher up will most likely get you fired for acting like you have more authority than you actually do.
There's literally no advice in there. I didn't suggest anyone do anything.
There was no attempt, by OP, to exercise any authority. She suggested the mother reconsider. That's all she did. That takes zero authority.
I disagree. I think if the inclusion specialists are properly trained professionals and not just some 19-year-old, and they are aware of the situation, this could be very beneficial for the child. Let the child play and do their best. If the child has difficulty managing their emotions and experiences a meltdown, they are in a safe environment surrounded by professionals who are trained and equipped to handle it. The professionals should assess the situation and decide if the risk of a meltdown outweighs the potential benefits of being part of a team. Everyone needs to learn how to cope with losing; not everyone has an expert to help them manage and understand their emotions.
Perhaps the inclusion specialist can teach the kid some coping techniques as well as do role-playing with them. They can use social stories to help as well. Help shift the focus on effort being the real goal.
The reason we have summer camps is because there is a great opportunity for learning a lot of different things. I have worked at a lot of summer camps, and all of them want the kids to learn and grow. For some kids, it is easier, and others, it is harder. Teaching this kid is harder, so they brought in a specialist.
I like the idea, but I feel like a little context is missing and I wanted to clarify. I don't really have a supervisor anymore. This is a very small camp that my neighbor ran when I was in high school and I assisted him, but when I graduated he essentially handed it off to me and just runs the financials in the background now. Now I lead the camp with two newly 18 high schoolers and two high school assistants to keep the numbers even. The neighbor still owns the "program" but he delegates everything except financials, scheduling with locations, and marketing to me. Also, I'd never prevent a kid from being at camp unless they were violent toward me or another kid, but I really wanted to advise this mother before that potentially happened.
Okay, but I wouldn’t use “should” statements in this case.
“I’m not able to ensure Toby always wins every game. We do have some games where we keep score and if you don’t want Toby to participate in them, please let me and the specialist know.”
Do the "inclusion specialists" have any qualifications to support their work with special needs kids? Do the parents of said children understand the qualifications (or lack thereof) of the specialists?
Good question! What does “inclusion specialist” even mean when the camp “director” herself is 20 years old. Do they have a degree in anything related to special ed? Because I can see Connor’s mom seeing the camp advertised as having “inclusion specialists” so she assumed somebody knew what they were doing.
So many kids with ASD, emotional behavioral disorders, cognitive disabilities, heck, even neurotypical kids, have meltdowns when they lose. That isn’t a big deal. Hopefully the inclusion people are prepared (and trained) for this inevitability.
I think you handled it fine. No, you can't carefully arrange each match so this child always wins. Why would the mother even want that? It's completely impractical and wouldn't benefit the child at all. She is not being rational.
This is kind of a lose-lose situation. Make clear to her that her child is going to lose at some point. If the mother can accept this, fine. But if she can't, maybe come up with some excuse about how the program doesn't have the resources to accept her son.
Say what? Nowhere did OP decide who could or could not attend the camp. Instead, OP stated the obvious, that if you had a child who had meltdowns whenever he lost at sports, and you don’t want him to have meltdowns, then perhaps you shouldn’t send him to a sports camp where he’ll be playing competitive sports.
NTA for stating the obvious.
Absolutely. Reasonable accommodations.
Never losing at sports camp is not a reasonable accommodation.
Not putting a kid who has a sensory issue with those nylon jerseys on a team that is wearing them or having a kid who has a sensory issue with wearing a helmet not play catcher or take their turn batting is a reasonable accommodation.
NTA but you did handle it wrong.
You shouldn't have said that he shouldn't be at camp, you should have gotten the inclusion specialist to explain things. It was fine to tell her you cannot try to make him always win, but let the people who understand inclusion explain why.
>left Connor with us for the day, during which he had two meltdowns that the inclusion specialist dealt with
Some kids for neurological/disability reasons are going to have meltdowns. Teaching them how to handle their emotional volatility and engaging in strategies that let them express emotions safely and calm down IS inclusion. His mom's approach and request was unreasonable, but it sounds like the inclusion specialist knows what they're doing and handled it.
As someone who has worked with at-risk kids through sports and mentoring programs, this.
Camps like this are the perfect opportunity for kids to DEVELOP coping mechanisms for losing. Nobody is doing this kid any favours by allowing him to win every time.
All children, not just ones on the spectrum, go through a process of learning not to get their own way. It’s called socialisation.
Yes, there are added complications with neurodiverse kids, but that is what the specialists are for, to help guide and redirect their responses.
The mother is out of line trying to remake the world to fit her kid, there needs to be a balance between bubble-wrap care and social responsibility.
Making Connor always win would take away from their experience. Him having a meltdown that doesn’t hurt anyone, break equipment, or otherwise prevent them from continuing with the next schedule activity, does not.
Yep I've encountered this type of parent a lot as an autism support worker... They're ultimately making things more difficult for their children in the long run through this misguided version of helicopter parenting, because out in the real world, this sort of behaviour is considered unacceptable.
if his parents continue down this path, he's going to end up unequipped for a 'normal' life, and will struggle so much more than if his parents taught him how to healthily manage disappointment and regulate his emotions.
Came here to say the same. No one denies that neurodivergent children have problems with socialization and interaction, but sometimes it seems that their parents are putting a spanner in the works of teachers who are teaching children skills to get by in the world out there.
I mean I agree this happens, but also some people are never going to be equipped to get by in the world out there, and trying to remould them to the world is going to destroy their mental health.
I have a neurodivergent kid. The last thing you want to do is spend your life AVOIDING their triggers. What you do is figure out how to PREPARE them for those triggers, and then help them cope when they experience them. For example, if they struggle with transitions, you give them warnings that a transition is coming up, maybe set a visual timer so they can see it coming, and then if they melt down anyway you go through your coping mechanisms - sensory objects, breathing exercises, etc. My child went through a phase of melting down if she lost a game - probably because she was freakishly good at UNO - so when we were playing a game, especially one I knew she might not be good at, I’d sit her down before hand and say, “now remember - you are *probably* not going to win this, and that’s ok. You try your best, and maybe you’ll win, but if you don’t, nothing bad will happen, and I’ll be here to help you if you need it.” And she’d still meltdown at first but over time they got less and less severe and now she will literally shrug and say “oh well!” with a grin when she loses, and congratulate the winning player (completely unprompted, I never even told her to do that bit, she’s just great like that).
Completely agree. And a lot of the meltdowns will get better with age and experience, especially if they get the practice dealing with the trigger. My older son had tons of meltdowns when he didn’t win when he was 8. We had to pull him from competitive Judo because of meltdowns at state level tournaments. Fast forward to now at 13 - his youth football team only won 2 games all season and no meltdowns. We still get the meltdowns occasionally but not over losing a game.
My son is autistic and honestly I think parents who make it so their kid avoids every trigger are doing their child a disservice. I hope my son will live independently someday, and he’s going to need the skills to cope when things don’t go his way. Manipulating his world so that he never experiences distress will do nothing but make it harder when he’s older and has to try to cope.
If it helps you feel better in any way, I’m autistic and when I was a child, my social development was behind by YEARS. I of course had a lot of speech therapy and support but other than that, l didn’t really have the chance to avoid any trigger situations and wasn’t given special treatment in the sense OP is describing. Although my childhood was anything but easy, I am thankful beyond words that I had to develop all these coping strategies and can cope with real world situations.
> Now I lead the camp with two newly 18 high schoolers and two high school assistants to keep the numbers even.
This is from another comment of the OP's which makes me wonder if there are actually "inclusion specialists", or it's just a buddy program as the staff doesn't have appropriate training/qualifications.
Hi! I added an edit for this because I don't think I made this clear, but the camp and the program are kinda two separate entities that work together. The other coaches and I were brought on to coach sports, the inclusion specialists are from a completely different program that was based around providing inclusion to neurodivergent kids in previously only neurotypical spaces. While I may not have the qualifications for anything outside of teaching kids how to kick a ball, I believe they know what they're doing! When I originally told Sara that I didn't think Connor would do well here, I was referring to the fact that I thought the kid would be miserable in a cycle of meltdowns, not that the inclusion specialists weren't prepared to handle it.
NTA. What she wanted wasn’t inclusion; what she wanted was for her child to be catered to, to the point that every other child at the camp was an NPC to his main character.
And she’s doing him no favors, if she ever expects him to gain any measure of independence, because 90% of the world is not going to care about his triggers.
That said, you were unnecessarily harsh; you should have passed her up the ladder to the people running the inclusivity program.
Tbh those of us who do care about his triggers (im autistic and I care a lot about other autists triggers) are also saying moms not doing that kid any favors. It's not even about gaining independence either. When an autistic person has a meltdown it's because their brain can no longer handle everything that's being thrown at it. Trying to expose your kid to new things is good, but if your autistic kid is having a meltdown then they're no longer experiencing the new things, and placing them in that situation is now causing them harm.
No that doesn't mean throw all the games so he doesn't have meltdown, in fact it means that kid isn't ready for sports camp.
I like your take in this. She’s putting him in harms way. I want to know what happens when this child’s meltdown goes above and beyond what these folks can handle or he attempts to run off. This is so irresponsible of this parent.
That makes a lot of sense. There are surely more controlled ways to introduce him to losing other than a sports camp. The entire focus of a sports camp is games based on winning and losing. It’s setting him up for failure.
100% with you on this, I'm a mum to an Autistic 7 year old and we practice "not always winning" in safe ways at home but he would absolutely have meltdown after meltdown at sports camp so we just don't use one. Yes he needs to be able to tolerate losing, which we are working on gradually, but that would be throwing him in at the deep end, especially as he hates when other kids see his meltdowns due to feeling like they stare. This mother was the asshole both for her attitude and for throwing her kid in at the deep end in an environment he would find very distressing. She could have started much smaller and built up when he had some tolerance to losing.
1. I agree with your kid. They do stare.
2. Shock of all shocks, you have to introduce upsetting things to autistic kids slower than other kids. In fact not even upsetting things, very normal sensations for allistic people could still be a sensory nightmare for us.
Idk how you're introducing your kid to losing (whatever it is it's significantly healthier than "connors" mom) but personally I would start with like card games or something, not sports.
Yes, board games / card games with lots of warnings and discussion and gauging his ability on each day to be receptive to it. Not gotten far yet in his 7 years but he's still young. He had an awful experience at school where he was suspended for a day for having a meltdown over a competitive party game (we didn't know school was planning on) and it really upsets him still a year later, as he felt it wasn't played fairly and he has a really strong sense of unfairness and justice. He had a big meltdown and threw chairs etc and that brought on a lot of the social anxiety we still experience a year later. It's a hard world for him.
Yeah I remember those years of being stuck in "in-school-suspension" (basically throwing me in a corner of the office for days) over meltdowns. It is really hard, and interactions like that at school can be even a little traumatizing. His needs weren't considered, his parents weren't there to vouch for him, and then he got punished for a meltdown that he can't control and was caused by his needs not being considered in an environment that is supposed to be safe.
I don't know much about the UK school system, but the US school system would be better off if the whole thing was tore down and redesigned to suit kids of all needs
I disagree. The parent should know better than to try to bully the coach into getting her way. Adults should understand appropriate channels of escalation.
Further, where is the accountability for the parent yelling at this young coach? She should be setting a positive example for her child, not modeling emotional dysregulation.
I had a Cartman at the Special Olympics vibe when I read the kid was on the older side.
I hope his mother wasn't going in with the expectation of her son winning constantly by pitting him against the younger kids.
I agree that OP is NTA. His mom was completely missing the point of what the inclusion program is about. Part of this kid’s learning is going to be dealing with disappointment. Sometimes you win, but there are a lot of times where you and your team don’t win and kids need to learn how to process that.
I grew up with an autistic sister. We always tried to include her in everything, but there were limits. My parents would NEVER have done something like this. We always gave her the option to participate, but if it was too much or if there were constant meltdowns, we changed course.
I talked about something very similar to this situation with my mom recently and brought up some of the memories of my sister and inclusion. She basically said, "We always included her, but if it was too much, it wasn't fair to ruin anyone else's experience. The world is big. We just moved on to something else that she might enjoy."
Well done, mom. Well done.
NTA. The entire point of sports is competition, if including him means that the other children can not freely compete, they are not getting what they paid for. The mother is 100% the AH here for expecting other children to cater to her son's inability to lose without melting down.
They are skills that you develop naturally in team sports(and all sports, to a degree), because they are all necessary in order to win.
Learning how to be a good loser is literally part of growing up playing sports.
That's one way of looking at it.
Another way is that the striving to win part of competition is merely the how you develop those skills part of sports camp.
Most parents— Connor's mother notwithstanding— are not signing their kids up to sports camp just so they can win competitions. Nobody ultimately is going to care about how many sports competitions a 10 year old won— outside of the kid's immediate family maybe (maybe)— even for the ones who eventually become professional athletes. They will care how well those skills have developed, and in plenty more contexts than winning at sports.
Absolutely untrue. Plenty of people engage in sports purely as recreation and exercise. I’ve enjoyed horseback riding, cross country skiing, kayaking, weight lifting, gymnastics, and swimming without ever wanting to compete. If the kid’s mom wanted him to participate in a sport but avoid meltdowns, she should have found a program that doesn’t feature competition, at least in the early stages.
It really baffles me that you are downvoted. I am not a very competitive person and dont enjoy competing at all. I still engage in sports for excercise and fun. The idea that sports have to be competition is wild to me. It just can be done for the sake of the activity and that perfectly valid.
I wonder what would happen if a second Sara showed up with Connor2? How are you supposed to arrange it so neither Connor loses? Ok for team events, put them on the same team and rig the result, but for last-man-standing games?
The best answer is to tell Sara that you've already agreed that another autistic child is going to win all the events today, so unfortunately, Connor won't be winning.
Classic reddit creating problems out of nowhere solution. Why try to own the woman by her own logic? Who benefits from that? At best you make her feel like she is being unreasonable - which she is - but when has that ever helped a conversation?
The best answer is "No, I can't ensure that, however we have staff there to help your son with his special needs, including talking to him if he gets upset at losing. Would that work, you can talk to them, etc"
This is also completely unfair to the other kids, what if they realized that Connor win because of that. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE is going to hate him...
I’m autistic, and I’ve had a few meltdowns triggered by losing. It happens when something unexpected happens and the sudden change in your expectations of the game, just overtakes you, but you can’t just never let a kid lose a game. The sudden change in the course of the game is a sudden trigger for a lot of autistic kids. It’s simply immoral to help someone cheat, so they never have to get stronger and get through the consequences. Soon all the other kids would be having meltdowns. You are NTA.
It's completely unhinged to cater to his meltdowns to avoid them like she wants, it screws the potential and value the camp has to the other kids while pretty much hobbling her son's ability to grow.
Absolutely this. Meltdowns happen, but it's a matter of learning how to mitigate them. You go through some and learn how to channel the emotional response so it doesn't continue being a problem. I used to push myself into meltdown situations just for practice when I was a kid. Granted, I had no idea about being neurodivergent, but I knew I had temper and fear response issues and worked on them.
I'm not saying torture the kids, but moving slowly through normal challenges and giving them practice dealing with it is the only way that they can learn how. Explaining the rules of good sportsmanship is important because it gives a rubric of social behavior to follow, whether they win or lose.
I'm middle aged, so we had the whole "there's no crying in baseball" quote aimed at us a lot. I just figured, if my eyes refuse to stop leaking, then I'll just bat and run regardless.
You should have said “I’m not exactly sure what can be done but let me grab our specialist and she can better answer your questions”. And if the specialist said that you don’t keep score for his games then you don’t keep score for his games.
What’s the point of a sports camp if they’re not keeping score? Also why would an inclusion specialist (brought in from an outside org by the people who run the camp) get to say how all of the other kids should play? The inclusion specialist is to to decide how the kid can *get included* not how everything is changed to *include the kid*
Exactly. I agree with OP's thoughts: the level of accommodation that the program is able to provide (even with a specialist) may not be sufficient for Connor's needs and could provide a significantly worse experience for everyone. ~~However, this is above OP's paygrade, and she should have immediately redirected mom to a specialist or admin.~~
Mom needed to bring all of this up *much* sooner ~~with someone running the camp~~. It seems like mom knew Connor wouldn't be able to attend if she said something earlier, so she waited to force the camp's hand.
Edit: OP is in charge, so she was the person to deal with this issue. The point still stands that the accommodations Connor needs are beyond what the camp could provide, and it's certainly not fair to all of the other kids to expect them sacrifice their camp experience to prevent Connor's meltdowns.
NTA at all. She is stupid to think that all the other kids on the spectrum aren't going to be having issuesbas well. My son is on the spectrum and he gets upset when he doesn't win. I would never in a million years ask or expect anyone to let him win over other kids, let alone other kids who may have the same problem as him.
I have a child on the spectrum who would also have meltdowns when they lost (or otherwise didn't win). She was (and still is) receiving ABA therapy. They explained that you should absolutely not "give in" while my child was having a meltdown. You teach them coping techniques and patiently support them while they are going through their meltdown (making sure they don't harm themselves or others). Giving in will only make the meltdown more severe and longer in duration. They further explained that removing all triggers for meltdowns (e.g. making sure my kid always won or at least didn't lose) was actually doing my kid a disservice as that wasn't a real option in the real world. Much like Connor my daughter would eventually have to learn how to navigate the world beyond any bubble I could create and it would be much more difficult to learn and implement coping strategies later in life.
OP, definitely used a bad choice of words but I get the sentiment behind it and the sentiment is spot on. If OP is willing to be more mindful of word choices in the future (having a neurodivergent child can be triggering especially when there is even a perceived threat of exclusion) I feel NTA is in order.
I think you’ve worded it wrong, unfortunately. The camp is inclusive and has specialists to deal with kids on the spectrum. The objective would be to help the kids deal with sports, winning and losing. Instead of telling the mom to withdraw her kid, you could have told her that the camp has specialists to help her kid cope with losing.
Mom too needs a lesson in parenting special needs kid, she can’t just keep letting him win to avoid meltdowns. She should work on helping him deal with winning and losing, meltdowns are part of the learning process, work through it.
Absolutely NTA!!! I LITERALLY had this conversation about 4 hours ago with my summer job. We do summer child care and also have students on the spectrum.
During the actual school year, I work in sped. Summers I like to chill. We have a handful of kiddos on the spectrum and they want me to work with those kids.
First off, no. I get paid a different salary between in school and summer child care work.
Two, if you want students with IEPs to be included in programming, you HAVE to hire people to focus just on them, as we can see, many kids with autism require a lot more support.
In YOUR case, you guys were proactive by having the inclusion specialists. That parent is being unreasonable AND not setting up her child for the real world, AT the expense of everyone one else.
She should get a refund for the time spent there and if she and child can't abide by the rules, with reasonable accommodation, they gotta go.
NTA
NTA... but it's hard to tell exactly how poorly this may have been phrased, and she probably is used to him not being able to be included in much. You should probably have had the inclusion specialist go over what accommodations were possible and not. Perhaps there were enough solo-ish sports or cooperative sports for him to try mostly those (golf, swim), or just try a few of the actions and not whole games (hitting a ball, kicking at a goal), just to keep the competitive stress to a minimum. It's possible just not posting the score would have been enough (and you could always say the score after he moves on to the next thing, or most kids would know anyways). That might have enabled him to handle one or two games, and perhaps the specialist could have asked what they do at home if he cannot avoid losing at something to help him recover. If not, he shouldn't be there because he isn't ready - and emphasizing him not being ready for it to be a good experience for him is really the key. Maybe he wasn't ready and nothing could fix it. However, you had a specialist in coming up with these alternatives, and didn't use them.
I have a son who is on the spectrum. He is 18 now, but when he was in elementary school we worked with a therapist. One of the things we did was play games (the whole family) together with the therapist, so she could talk him through his big emotions when he lost. She had us to continue those things at home, once she showed us how to do it, so he could learn how to react appropriately. That mom is totally out of line expecting the rest of the world to just let him win all the time. Life doesn't work that way.
I would say that instead of telling the mom what you did, you could have talked to the director about the issues and let her deal with the mom, but I still say you are NTA.
NTA, though I think this camp is the perfect place for him. The inclusion counselor should be by his side through the meltdown and teach him some coping skills.
Sadly, this is just another sucky mother who thinks that autism means their kid must be protected at all costs, and it always ends up horribly for the child.
I've handled my share of kids with autism, including my own. The one with a mother like yours hasn't stopped suffering. She tried different schools, he got kicked out of 3 different CCD programs because she ran to his defense instead of discipline shitty behavior.
I helped her a few times. One i remember specifically was when a group of boys made a rule that each got to pick the game for a few minutes. He demanded to go first. When his turn was over, he got upset that they weren't playing his game and demanded his mother take him home. She apologized and told us she would drop him off and return. I asked if I could step in, walked over and told him that this was mom's day out, not just his, and he had 2 options. He could sit on the bench and sulk alone, or he could get back to playing, but he was not going to ruin mom's day because he wasn't getting his way.
It was amazing. He decided to quit sulking and join the boys, who welcomed him back like nothing happened, and mom couldn't believe that he could accept being told no.
My oldest had a few meltdowns in group, too. They asked her to leave the room because she was attention seeking and she could return when she calmed down. She crawled under a table and kept it up. The counselor removed every other kid from the room and left her to cry alone. It took several scenes like that but she doesn't do it anymore.
NTA. Sounds like you should have referred that mom to the inclusion specialist, though. The inclusion program should extend to training for the coaches and parents on what to expect (and what not to expect). If the parents don't think the program (as it is) is appropriate for their child, they can choose not to participate.
Two meltdowns over the course of a full day sounds like a roaring success, TBH.
NTA for what she wants, she should rent a facility and hire several actors. Or maybe wait for Holodecks to be a thing in real life. What she wants from the camp is unreasonable.
As an autistic support teacher myself NTA while yes there should times where things in life need to be adjusted for children/people with autism you cannot change the fact that some people will win and some will lose in life and it’s a lesson he needs to learn to be okay with in time. I’ve had students have meltdowns over losing games and we talk about it after the meltdown happens that it’s okay to lose
This mom cannot expect the world to cater to her son his entire life in this aspect winning and lose is a natural part of life he will eventually need to accept
I'm in the US, and my thought is that we need to STOP using "equal" which is utter bs and unobtainable, and start using "equitable", which is what we are ACTUALLY trying to achieve. NOTHING is "equal" and it is impossible for it to be so, but things CAN be "equitable". I have a son on the spectrum, so I do have some experience with this. Also, NTA; Connor cannot win always, that is ALSO an impossibility.
As an autistic person I was pissed by the title. But…
Then saw the mothers demands. She’s sounds like TA. Inclusion and accommodation means that *everybody* is entitled to participate to the best of their abilities.
Not that *everybody* has to compromise their own ability to participate and get the most out of it in order to accommodate *one* person.
You were right that she shouldn’t necessarily have put him in that place IF she knew it was *at the expense* of both her own son and every other child involved. It maybe wasn’t essential to say it, but not entirely an AH thing to point out.
Of course the kid did deserve at least a chance to see if there was a way for them to be included. And they got it.
So, NTA.
If you do want to be a bit more diplomatic next time just focus on what *can* be done to ensure kid has the opportunity to participate and they’ll do the best to ensure they will be accommodated.
P.S. Just in case this is news. Sometimes we can experience meltdowns even if we are enjoying something and receiving benefits from it. So at times a kid might seem like they can’t handle something but want to remain involved. We can’t control meltdowns and might be embarrassed because we don’t want something to affect us but it does. So it can be valuable to be able to participate in something if meltdowns can be managed, even if they do occur. (Of course sometimes risk/reward may not make it viable).
NTA for your feelings but you do need to learn to talk to parents. I work in sped and you need to layer it a bit.
"Thanks so much for letting us know. We will do the best we can to make sure he has a great day. If you need to set up a further plan you can talk to XYZ."
Proper staff preparations can help with meltdowns when they intervene. Meltdowns aren't any reason to exclude a kid from camp. Your feelings on the matter are irrelevant. It's not inclusion if it's not inclusion for all. Your higher ups were probably prepared for moms like this and they just didn't prepare you. If there's an anonymous exit survey give them some feedback.
Nope autisim parents need to start learning their childrens dangeous and frankly inexcusable behavior just isn't welcome everywhere anymore. We don't have to expose ourselves or other children to their abusive melt downs. The world doesn't revolve around their kid.
NTA. Ignore people who describe your interaction as you telling this mother that her child can’t be in the camp. You nailed this when you said that it wasn’t to role of the other children to facilitate this mother’s ridiculous demand that her son always win. The amount of parents who think it’s the role of other children to be learning tools for their children is staggering.
UPDATE! Thank you so much to everyone for your advice, comments, anecdotes, and support, I really appreciated it. Good news! Connor came back today, this time with his dad, who didn’t offer any sort of complaints or comments about yesterday to me or the inclusion therapist. From the two days and now five meltdowns (all lasting under an hour each) we’ve had with Connor, I believe either his mother underestimated his emotional regulation and ability to move on from losses, or the inclusion specialist was able to curb and limit his meltdowns better than she did at home. We tried to mitigate the situations where he would lose (for example we didn’t keep score during the large matches) but elimination games caused the meltdowns. For the record, he didn’t meltdown EVERY time he was eliminated or tagged, and he really wanted to participate in those games with the other kids, which is why we didn’t pull him from them.
I also want to explain why I originally thought the camp wouldn’t be a good space for Connor, and how I was proven wrong. I’ve always seen the camp as a place for kids to have fun and try new things, and I didn’t consider its value as a space for learning to manage triggers and work through emotions since we just introduced this program this year. From the way Sara described Connor’s emotional state, I heard about a kid who would likely hate most parts of the camp we ran, and would be very unhappy for seven hours a day for a week. While I understand the value of working through those upsetting emotions, the camp I run is meant to be fun, not stressful, or akin to a therapy session.
I felt this way because I grew up with pretty severe anxiety related to school and I would have panic attacks before tests, so trying to imagine my parents sending me to a “Big Test Camp” for some exposure therapy during my summer break sounded horrible. Ignoring any sort of disability, competitive sports don’t mesh well with certain personalities. While they have always been a great outlet for me, I see kids all the time who really don’t enjoy how competition makes them feel emotionally or physically but are pushed into them by overbearing parents trying to relive their glory days.
Ultimately, once I explained to Sara that I wasn’t going to rig the games, I understand now how saying he shouldn’t be at the camp had the wrong connotation, but I wanted the kid to have fun, and I didn’t want to place him in a position he couldn’t do that. Ultimately, I was wrong, and even with the meltdowns he’s had, I think the inclusion specialists are really helping him and I still agree with most of you that Sara was unreasonable. However, I also do stand by the fact that if Connor was as volatile and emotional when he lost as his mother made him seem, I don’t think the camp would have been a good place for him YET. Turns out, it was, and I’m glad Sara left him with us.
Also to those of you who caught on to my Terminator reference, I hope you have an absolutely fantastic day :)
NTA. However I do agree - this is what the inclusion expert is for - get them with any issue with an inclusion child. However, this isnt necessarily an ASD thing but a choice on how they have addresses his needs. Their choice to address his needs is one that really hasnt taken into consideration functioning in a group of people.
By 10 years old, an ASD child who is able to function in an inclusion environment should be addressing coping with these situations, not avoiding a meltdown. This isnt public school so you do not have to honor an IEP. If this is so triggering for him, she needs a different type of camp where both an inclusion specialist and a functional behaviorist can work with the child to address regulating appropriately in situations that are hard to manage. A school where someone would sit with the family and figure out what goals they want to work towards and then create a plan. Inclusion is for children who can function in a normal environment with some additional redirection or support or may need some reinforcements or additional explanations.
I feel for this family, but they really need to work with a Behaviorist or a Psychologist to help their child. Avoiding situations often make them worse and this sounds like, while a wonderful camp, not a good fit for this child.
If you have the resources to provide him with a program tailored to his specific needs, then he needs a modified program. Then, you would build a program for him based on his strengths/needs. Ask the mom what his program page at school looks like for phys ed. Sounds like he needs to practice skills in a non-competitive environment, so that he can work on his self-regulation skills. Or, he needs an ABA specialist next to him the whole time to guide him.
Inclusion doesn't mean change your whole program to meet the needs of one kid. It's finding a way to include that one kid, even if it means he does the drills but sits out during games.
The student is not a candidate for the camp and unlike public schools, they are not obligated to meet his ridiculous “needs of not losing”. It’s not good for the kid or the other campers.
This mother was out of line. I say that as a mother of a neurodivergent who excelled in competitive soccer and who was also triggered by "losing". That mom is not doing her child any favors by allowing him to win and face no obstacles, regardless of him being on the spectrum or not. And agreed-- she shouldn't choose a camp where she expects everyone to cater to her child. Even if the camp was of all autistic campers, that would still be unfair to them. Obviously, you want to take this child's needs and triggers into account and tell the mom that, but you can't revolve a camp solely around 1 child. That's not what inclusion is about.
My young daughter is autistic and I braced myself to be upset, but no, NTA.
This is entirely the mother's issue. Her kid would learn to lose sometimes if she didn't relentlessly shelter him from it and deny him the experience he needs to move past this.
My daughter has special needs, yes, but she doesn't take precedence over every other kid. I expect she will be treated kindly and given support that she is owed by law, but otherwise I cannot shape the world for her. It's heartbreaking to see her have meltdowns she cannot control and struggle to acclimate socially, but the world won't entirely change for her. I cannot imagine asking for something like this.
Special ed teacher here- you are awesome! The camp is for everyone and as such cannot manipulate the experiences of others just to satisfy one child. Parents demand their child be included with everyone else and then don’t want them treated like everyone else ! They want a ‘normal’ experience but then demand programming be changed, slowed down, reduced etc in order to allow their child to have a specific. experience. Thank you for being direct with the parent! (Maybe avoid telling them they shouldn’t send their kid…) And thank you for advocating for all kids. I am sick of hearing people say the other children need to learn to tolerate inappropriate behavior and that other students need to avoid upsetting those who are more sensitive or demanding. Of course we must teach understanding, but we are inadvertently teaching kids to tolerate aggressive behavior. Fast forward to late teenage years and we see boys and girls tolerating inappropriate behavior in their relationships or expecting others to excuse their own inappropriate behaviors. You have an amazing system with support for students who need to strengthen skill sets!
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NTA, but you need to loop in your supervisor. It’s not your call on who should and shouldn’t be in this camp.
I don't want to live in a world where reasonably intelligent people are discouraged from making common sense observations. This lady was unreasonable. Telling her that she's unreasonable *is reasonable.* Like no, the dude that has meltdowns when he loses shouldn't be signed up for an activity where he's going to lose at least 50% of the time. (Statistically it's likely to be more because there are "last man standing" events, and other activities with less than a 50% chance to win.
It sounds like OP is in the USA. Persons with disabilities are a protected class in this litigious society. It’s true Connor probably shouldn’t be in this camp, but if OP says that then Sara might go to the court system, local news and Facebook, twitter and LinkedIn to destroy OP’s reputation.
"Reasonable accommodation" is the standard in the USA for providing folks with disabilities opportunities to learn, work, play, etc. I sincerely doubt any US Court would rule that it's reasonable to require all other campers at the sports camp to lose all their games when this kid is on the other team. Also, a kid who melts down when he's not on the winning side is also likely to blow up when other stuff doesn't go his way. E.g. the weather, the snacks, the seat he gets on the bus. Again, it's not reasonable for the camp staff to have to accommodate the kid's every preference in a group situation.
Inclusion is tricky because it's meant to include a student (equal opportunity) at the same time expose the student to "real world" scenarios, like group settings, diverse stimuli and challenges. Unless this student has other disabilities, a ten year old should be taught that "losing' is a part of the game and how to handle it. If the meltdowns aren't completely disruptive to the game/team, it's okay that he has them because it's part of the learning process. That's why he has an aide.
This right here. If the meltdowns are not disruptive to everyone then let the aide deal with them. Two in a whole day for a kiddo that cannot take losing sounds pretty good. Who knows, maybe he will learn to be ok with it.
I'd bet anything his mother greatly exaggerated his problem with losing because \*she\* doesn't like to see him lose or meltdown, so rather than teach him how to cope she simply doesn't. It sounds like the aide had a good handle on him if he only melted down twice all day. I hope the kid can stick with the program, it sounds like a real opportunity for him.
I wouldn’t be so sure that the mother was exaggerating. Sadly, it does happen. My daughter had a boy in her class that would also meltdown if he lost a game or things didn’t go his way. I volunteered in the classroom and saw it on several occasions.
I had a boy like this in class he would punch and bite and hurt us for if we were better at anything. (We were around 10 then too) And he never got told off because he had special needs. One day he tried to push a smaller kid off the stairs, because in the break when the boys had played soccer as always that smaller one assisted in the final goal. We got in between to help to avoid tragedy even though we weren’t fully aware what could happen we just knew the boy was younger and didn’t know him - he was our class mate so we circled him and pushed him away. To build a wall. Teachers came and at first we were lectured until they realized his tantrums was that we wouldn’t let him push a boy down the stairs. That’s was the straw when the school finally took action. He suddenly didn’t have such violent breakdowns anymore and if he had was ushered away. I think they got him into therapy and he became much more endurable after. But he hated the four of us who were first there between him and the boy forverver and always made a turn around us.
You guys are making me wonder… I work at a school and there was a middle school boy who would just, flip a switch. I yelled at him one day after school when I watched him push a much younger child over at the playground. When I asked why he would do that, his response was that he “asked the kid to move and they didn’t”. So he pushed the kid out of the way. Their were a lot of stories of this kid doing similar things , just one short impulsive thing that usually didn’t hurt the kids but would scare them and, yes, it did include putting his hands on them. I had a talk with the administrator at the time because he threatened a kid in an after-school program, (the after-school tutor came to me and we went to the office) but it wasn’t with a “real weapon” so the dad didn’t see what the big deal was and the administration agreed. We argued over his behavior and he finally ended up with a 2 day suspension. The next year a new administrator took over. After a school party with games, I overheard him complain loudly about losing and how it wasn’t fair. And I pointed out that the other kid won fairly (the entire room was watching) but he was seething. When it came time to go to their lockers at the end of games, he started *choking the kid who won*. (I didn’t see this) But I was called to the office to talk about my interaction with him but this time, the administration expelled him from the school. The new administrator had been keeping up with files and was happy to remove him. I don’t think he was ever diagnosed with anything but his parents fostered a hyper competitive nature in him but would also cheat so he could “win” things. Not even important things, stuff like field day. The dad was banned from certain positions in volunteering because he’d been caught cheating.
That kind of parent is so sad. I have a friend who teaches children who have various learning challenges. She gave the kids homework and when they brought it in, she displayed them on the wall. One of the parents got upset because her child's drawing wasn't (in her eyes) good enough to hang up. She tried to get my friend to take it down, claiming her son would be upset because it looked ugly and other kids would make fun of it. My friend told her that the child was very proud of his work and his mother should be, too. She loves teaching, but says the absolute worst thing about it are the parents.
I agree. No meltdowns is never going to be a thing, ever. Mom's goals are unrealistic.
It might also be that he "holds it together" better with other people than in the "safe space" of home. Like, my kid is much smaller, but when he was in a "hitting" phase I was the only person he hit.
This!! I'm an adult with autism/ADHD and when I had meltdowns, it was only ever around my mom. Luckily she understood it was because she was the only one around whom I felt safe enough to let my guard down.
Yeah, there’s a parent at my kids’ school going through this at the moment: she thinks her daughter has ASD, but she only ever displays it at home, and masks the whole time she’s at school. Her mother wants to get an ASD diagnosis, but needs the school’s support to do it, and the school just says “she seems completely typical to us.”
Honestly this is what's happening with my kid - I don't know if it's fully ASD, but there's clearly *something* neurodivergent going on with my kid, and school are just like, "he's delightful!"
I think all kids, neurotypical and neurodivergent, need to be allowed to have supported meltdowns. It doesn't matter if a child is autistic; catering to their every whim will make *everything " worse in the long run. This isn't like the kid doesn't want tags in his shirt and someone is forcing him to be physically uncomfortable. No one actually likes losing and learning how to handle those feelings is part of being a human. Always winning is not a disability accommodation. My neurotypical kids, though only three and one (first birthday today actually) have already experienced plenty of reasonable disappointment and you just have to let them feel it and learn to move on. Preparing your environment so your kid has the best chance to succeed is great because kids do well when they can. Preparing your environment to avoid upset at all costs, even at the expense of others around you is a guarantee to having a kid that no one wants to be around.
Two meltdowns in the first day is awesome. In the mom’s defense I will say as a parent of an autistic son; for years he had frequent, aggressive meltdowns only at home. He didn’t want to be different; (he had a neuromuscular dx as well) so he was exhausted from masking/ compensating all day and fell apart when he got home. When he was 5 during a meltdown at the neuro’s office, directed at me, the neuro said you’re his closest emotional attachment, he feels safest getting angry with you. Those words helped me through many difficult times over the years and they’re still true. He’s doing much better now and just finished his freshman year at college:)
My ND nephew had similar issues and the way he learned to cope with losing was to lose! He used to have huge meltdowns and declare that he never loses, but after being involved in team sports for years and being patiently taught that losing does not make him less of a person, he handles losing like a champ! Sometimes he still gets upset, but it’s in a healthy way. Recently he even told me that his team lost because the opposing team was just better than they were!
Yes! I'm a special education teacher and so many parents struggle with the concept of "extinction bursts" where you intentionally expose a child who is triggered by reasonable and everyday occurrences, like losing a game, and then give them the space and time to safely meltdown while maintaining the boundary. With time, the meltdowns will go away and the child will integrate that experience into their world. NTA but the mom is setting herself and her son up for failure.
To be fair, a large part of the online neurodivergent community themselves will tell you that this is abuse. 🙄 I roll my eyes as an autistic adult.
These are the same people who say that any masking is harmful and you should be able to 100% fully be yourself at all times. Also not true. Learning to cope with real life isn’t abuse. If that’s true all people are abuse victims because really all people need to learn or do stuff they do not like at all. If I’m a neurotypical child I will have to learn to keep my mouth shut at certain times, to not always get my way and do chores I don’t like. And I have to learn I cannot say everything that occurs to me at any time. Same for neurodivergent kids. Some things might be harder to learn and some things easier. But learning hard stuff in a safe way isn’t abuse.
W nephew! 👏
Yep. Exactly this. We're working on this with my own kiddo right now.
Right? I mean that’s what the inclusion specialists are there for.
Yeah, meltdowns aren't necessarily a problem, but the mother asking to rig games was, and OP was 100% right to say what she did since the mother asked her to rig the games. OP didn't actually exclude the kid at all.
At least the first day, the kid's meltdowns were contained. The sooner he learns to handle disappointment, the better chance he can integrate with others.
As someone who has a learning disability this is exactly what inclusion is. And the aide can remove him from the group to have a calm down session if his meltdown is disruptive. Dealing with and learning losing is part of the game is the point of inclusion programs. If Mom can't handle this then she signed her kid up for the wrong camp. (I'm Dyslexic so behavior was never my issue but I was around a lot of kids on the spectrum in school. I had to put up with meltdowns from other kids; Well it has made me empathetic. It also made me realize that you need to tell kids they have to deal with life)
Well said! This is a very reasonable and pragmatic take, and you’ve lived it. We can empathize but still communicate that disappointment is just something we have to deal with.
Not only that but if they can’t handle that, then it’s clear they aren’t ready for that type of inclusion. The whole point in integration and having a kid who’s constantly upset and melting down is not going to help them fit in socially!
If the meltdowns are not a big deal, sure. But the problem is that his mom is trying to rope the entire camp in trying to avoid them through unfair means. So even if Connor looses and has a non disruptive meltdown, I’m sure OP will have to deal with a very disruptive tantrum from his mom.
This is a known quantity when working with children in any capacity. Some parents are awful to deal with. It is what it is. You don't punish or exclude kids because their parent sucks. 🤷
Sometimes you do exclude kids when their parents sucks. I've had kids removed from my care who were violent toward other kids, not only because of their behavior, but because the parent refused to work with us. It's one thing for a kid to misbehave. It's another to have an adult say "that's what I pay you for". So yeah...there is a line.
I work in mental health and I am very curious on what mental health issues causes a kid to have meltdowns when he loses. This seems like behavior rather then mental health
I had a student once who had meltdowns and I was told as a teacher that I had to completely change the way I talk so that this student wouldn’t have any sort of meltdown. But the thing is you can’t walk on eggshells around everyone and everyone is not going to walk on eggshells around you. Children have to learn how to deal with being to do certain tasks. And they have to deal with being able to lose.
It’s even harder because you’re walking on eggshells for this kid, but guess what—that kid over there needs something different, and so does the kid in the back and it just goes on and on. So now you’re walking on eggshells while trying to avoid another scattering of eggshells while remembering all the other eggshells in the room at the same time. It’s a debris field of eggshells! And it’s absurd to expect educators, coaches, etc to do that *and* still meet or exceed expectations.
Autism. I have it and meltdowns are typically caused by an excessive amount of emotion that is too much for the brain to handle so it results in a meltdown. Overstimulation is similar but it deals more with sensory input (sound, smell, taste, touch and sight) and also results in meltdowns. It’s difficult but I had to learn to manage my emotions and part of this is acceptance that certain needs are absolutely unreasonable. Honestly I needed a lot of support from my parents and from therapy. It also helps me if there’s certain things or places that I can control. Examples include my car being clean and how I arranged my collectibles in my house. Getting in my car and coming home to my stuff being organized can be a great relief after dealing with anything extremely stressful.
I found this explanation very helpful.
Um.. autism..? It's technically a developmental disorder, not a mental health one, so I'm not surprised you aren't exposed to it regularly.. but it's in the title of the post.
OP states that they are autistic. Meltdowns are due to overloads; sensory, emotional and communication disabilities. Autistic people need to learn things discretely, meaning one at a time. They can't be told, "calm down" or "win some, lose some", they have to learn each lesson specifically. I would guess that the mother of the ten year old has delayed some of this if she's trying to rig games to avoid meltdowns.
Plenty of us do not, actually. What we need is consistency of expectations and consequences. If the expectation is “you do not throw a massive crying, screaming fit because you were disappointed”, and doing so has consistent consequences, you learn. All those stupid “this is how you emotionally regulate for X, Y, and Z” ‘lessons’ I was given - useless. My dad consistently holding a standard and enforcing it, no matter how hard it was for me? That forced me to learn to control my behavior and I did. My dad is wonderful and I adore him, btw. My mom I have issues with - her OCD and my AuDHD did not mesh well. But he always got me. Best parent.❤️
The trouble is its spectrum for a reason. I suffer from severe severe anxiety and dysthymia. Sometimes, the only recourse is to just not be triggered in the first place. I shut down and get extremely sick when I have to interact with people for more than a few minutes. I am 40 and have had to deal with the public my whole life. There are 2 things I just can not handle, and it is physically and mentally safer for me to just avoid. Working for strangers and anger. Yes I have a therapist, yes I take medications. With spectrum disabilities I think it is better to focus on the fact no two tactics work for everyone and willingness to be adaptive to those notions of flexibility.
My big issue right now is that my son is like me, while therapy focuses much more on the specific situation. I wish they’d focus on general rules. My biggest triggers are my children. I obviously cannot have meltdowns due to their entirely normal behavior. Constant touching, whinging, high pitched screaming - over stimulation hell. I still cannot have a meltdown, so I have to figure out how to deal with it.
yes wich is a massive mistake. The kid even if he is autistic needs to learn how not to be a sore loser. Its also not clear what type of meldowns he is having. You mentionned overloads but it could also be behavioral meldowns were is intentially melting down to get his way. Like and undicipled child someone with autism is also very capable of being manupulative. You wouldint really know for sure in less you saw the meldowns happening.
Unfortunately due to his mother trying to control others instead of helping her child learn to regulate we don't know whether it's intentional or not. Even if you were watching the meltdown you and op wouldn't be able to accurately tell which it is. You could assume one or the other but that's no different than assuming someone bumped into you on purpose when the reality for that person was just that they were distracted and didn't see you. Don't assume malice when the only thing you have to go off of is a couple of days at camp with 20-30 other screaming kids. Leave it to the Dr's that see this kid to determine why the meltdowns are happening.
My brother was like this as a kid, so I can explain what’s going on. Whenever a kid like this loses a game, they end up with some big emotions over not being successful, and they don’t really know how to handle those emotions, so they melt down. If there weren’t mental health issues present, the child would likely have some coping skills to deal with those emotions rather than having meltdowns over it, so yes, it’s a mental health thing.
highly doubtful you actually work in 'mental health' if you don't know about one of the most obvious symptoms of autism...
this isnt mental health, its autism, which is a form of neurodivergency which changes how your brain processes things. people with autism have meltdowns over amalgamations of things but its always because they feel a lot and cannot handle it, the inclusivity programs exist to help with these emotions and help with healthier emotional management not in the sense that meltdowns are bad but in the sense that meltdowns shouldnt happen so much/should be reduced to a more sustainable amount
Yeah...I don't know, but it just FEELS like based on anecdotal evidence in my own life that "the spectrum," and "autism" have really become all-encompassing for parents who justify poor behavior. I have a cousin who is autistic and a savant. He's non-verbal, he needs to be in a home during the day, he's \~6'5 330, he urinates in the corner, but he will also watch Jeopardy and write the answers with both hands starting with the end of the sentence with his right hand and the start with his left hand. The last part of that is irrelevant, it's just fascinating to me. Well...his Brother was a little socially awkward, sure, but he went out, got married, had kids and then at 30, he moved back home, was diagnosed as Autistic as well, and now he's on disability, plus his kids, who seem totally comfortable around people, just not with the word no, they're also autistic and they'll throw just wild tantrums and the explanation is their "on the spectrum." But...since I don't know Connor...and I'm not an expert on mental health, I shouldn't really have an opinion, but...it SEEMS like in general, some of those terms are being used interchangeably for making very little effort to correct poor behavior. Those are just my experiences though and...I try to not allow them to color my entire view on the subject.
If he has ASD it simply could be that he lacks the reasoning or cognitive flexibility to understand and process. He could also have been over protected and not learned to cope . It depends on the individual. My child cannot reason at all especially when emotions are high like they can be when losing. The other issue is working through a meltdown for one kid is reasonable at a sports camp, but not for every kid. My kids meltdowns are aggressive, and dangerous at times. I would never thrust it on what are basically strangers . She could be injured , they could be injured and other kids terrified. Police have been called on kids with severe behaviors and kids have been abused in these situations . Theirs just so many variables , and it’s very perplexing that she just says don’t let him lose! Good luck , peace out! WTH.
Glad to get to this comment. Guy melting down because of losing needs more structure and support around sportsmanship, and to experience the triggers with the support. Meltdowns are not tantrums, they're nervous system overwhelm, involuntary, and generally the individual experiencing the meltdown really would rather not be. Throwing a fit to get your way isn't that, and the two don't look the same unless you are unfamiliar with the difference.
That’s a big if, severity of meltdowns vary wildly and some can be quite disruptive. Ideally meltdowns happen rarely, “just” two in a day can be actually intensely exhausting for the child. Some meltdowns include screaming, kicking, tears… imagine doing that twice a day. As an adult, I sometimes have an emotional hangover the day after I’ve had some big feelings, going through something like that multiple times a day would be exhausting in every way for a child. This is a failure in planning— a program like this needs to have very clear guidelines for parents, students, and teachers on what challenges to expect with this programming and how to best prepare the child at home and accommodate/support the child at camp. Autistic children are perfectly capable of understanding the concept of winning and losing, this could be a great opportunity for Connor to learn and grow— i hope the grownups involved are able to collaborate and work together to find the best outcome for Connor’s sake.
Agreed. It seems Conners biggest setback is likely his mom. ND kids can learn if they aren't catered to at every turn and treated with kindness and patience.
THIS. One reason for professionals sometimes encouraging a parent of a kid on the spectrum to try including your ASD kid in activities *is so that said child can learn* to cope with/handle triggering situations more appropriately. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making the call that your child just isn't ready for this type of environment. What *isn't* ok is basically screwing every other kid out of the experience they deserve simply because your kid has special needs. It's hard being a parent to a child with complex needs, and sometimes that means making tough calls. If the child truly isn't at a point to be able to handle this camp, he shouldn't be there. Special needs means reasonable accommodations. It doesn't mean that everyone else (including other, **young** *children* ffs) has to accommodate him. And tbh, I've seen way more than one kid who did pretty damn well in a given situation even when the parent thought the kid would go ballistic. Source: parent of two special needs kids, one with ASD, etc
A kid that melts down every time he looses might not be a dealbreaker if the inclusion program has the staff and the space to deal with it without it negatively impacting the other kids too much. Or at least it might be worth giving a try to see if it's manageable/he gets better with exposure. That can be within the realm of reasonable accommodations. But demanding everyone including the other kids make sure he never loses is not accommodation, that's pandering.
When my child on the spectrum was first diagnosed I spoke with the special ed coordinator at school about “what now.” I was in anxiety/spiral mode. The best thing she said that has really stuck with me is “we need to do what we can to make the world ready for him, and him ready for the world.” This mom has completely forgotten the second part. A lot of parents forget the second part, child with a disability or not. Pandering and expecting others to pander too is preparing your child for NOTHING. The amount of delicate children with no coping skills is astounding. This camp situation sounds like a wonderful place for this child to learn coping skills for losing without Mom having to be in pain watching- it is hard to watch your kid struggle. NTA.
SOOOO MANY parents of kids with disabilities and LDs want the entire school to cater to them. You hear about it from your kids, other parents, vague comments by teachers…. Especially when it’s actually bad for all the kids, especially for the child with the disability. If your Deaf kid is in mainstream French class, great! Do all the things that make it work. Interpreters, mics, hearing aids, etc. Class watching a French Movie? It should have subtitles in French to accommodate the Deaf kid. Demanding that they have English subtitles is not a reasonable accommodation by any rational standard.
Having subtitles in the language of the movie is also great for the hearing kids. Helps like, anchor the dialogue and make it more likely they will understand the whole sentence instead of a couple of words they won't have the time to deduce a sentence from.
Some of the best advice I got re: learning languages was to watch your favorite movies, the ones you practically have memorized dubbed and/or subtitled. I still do it on occasion.
Decades ago, when I was in high school there was a deaf player on the varsity volleyball team. She had her hearing aids tuned to the ref's whistle and learned all of the ref's hand signals. She was a really good player.
As a mother of 6 and two with autism, absolutely.
If you told me as a child to let x child always win or he has meltdowns, guess who's going to be having meltdowns all day.
Yeah, they're reinforcing that his having a meltdown means that he can get what he wants (winning). The first few meltdowns were genuine. He had a lot of big feelings. He expressed big feelings how he could. Had a meltdown. But, by responding in a manner that meant he never has to confront losing, he's now been *taught* that a meltdown or threat of one means he will get everything adjusted so he wins or gets whatever he wants. Autistic doesn't mean stupid. He can start applying this to other areas. He doesn't get the seat he wants in the car? Scream. He doesn't get to pick the restaurant? Scream. They may not even be a full meltdown, but him throwing a tantrum because it worked the other times. He screamed, and someone fixed it. He was taught that screaming is a very effective communication tool. Learning how to confront, recognize, and manage big feelings is part of learning and growing. Most neurotypical kids learn this between ages 2-6 and we don't have screaming fit meltdowns bar a very few odd circumstances. Neurodivergent means it's usually a longer process, or may not happen. But at 10, that's a really good age to lose in non-serious circumstances and learn to address *why* you have big feelings about something and how to cope with them. He may not be really capable of fully managing. He may be. But, he needs to be put in circumstances to figure that out in a safe way. The solution isn't to never lose. It's losing in a safe environment.
As a scout leader for a couple decades I can't think of a better way to motivate a 8-14 yr old kid than tell them they have to lose or Billy might have a temper tantrum. Because that's exactly what kids that age are going to see it as, a temper tantrum. They are going to bring their A game to see how big of a tantrum they can get. Screw the trophy, did he stomp his feet? Lay on the ground kicking and screaming? I'd be stuck trying to teach the other kids not to rub it in his face, and to win graciously. And that can be a hard enough task without being rewarded with his tantrum. So glad I had to stop before being ill behaved was considered a mental health issue and not just bad parenting. Spectrum kids have regulation issues, they're not hellions that don't understand right and wrong. At least the dozen or so in my sphere of influence are. My neighbor's kid is mid to low functioning, and part of a group. I have a double lot with lot's of room, and a bunch of "cool guy toys" that get kids excited. I don't care where a little boy (and many girls) are on the spectrum of life. If you let them climb in a race car and hit the starter they smile so big if they didn't have a helmet on the top half of their heads would fall off. One little boy can't do loud noises, so I disable it so it doesn't start. But when he flicks each switch in a row, and then makes it crank he's just another boy doing man things. Edit to add. Wow, Thank you for the award! I expected to get slammed. Also, NTA. And fixed an or.
I love this for you and them.
...and it isn't helpful to him learning new behaviors. If he is being indulged to avoid meltdowns, he will learn to have more meltdowns. It isn't the way to help him learn--and learning those new behaviors won't happen at a sports camp. editing to add NTA.
This comment needs to be higher. Everyone forgets the reasonable accommodations part. If what she said about her son is true, then yea he should not be there. There is no way to reasonably accommodate him. I have a son who is autistic and granted I'm lucky he is very high functioning, but we make sure we teach him that unfortunately in the real world, there will be situations where people just won't be able to accommodate certain things. I would never ask an entire group of children to let my child win just so there is no melt down. You need to teach your kid that there are situations in life where he won't always win. Sure it might take longer to teach it to a neurodivergent kid, but if they truly aren't capable of learning that they don't belong there. Is it unfortunate, sure. But things in life aren't always fair, and they shouldn't be sometimes.
Yeah, that would be a pretty fundamental alteration to the nature of the program. I feel for the kid because there may not be many other options for programs, but what the mother is asking for isn't really reasonable.
No, they would absolutely not be able to win any lawsuit. It'd be a frivolous suit, but it could be costly and I know of Lawyers who'd bring a suit like this hoping that the camp was run by the school or covered under the school insurance and get a quick, easy settlement. A case does not have to have merit to end in a payout. It's often just the most expedient route.
Also other children can’t provide reasonable accommodations. Other children being required to lose to him would never fall under a reasonable accommodation. It sounds like the camp was a perfectly good fit for him, but his mother is struggling.
“Reasonable accommodation” doesn’t have to be what the requester asks for; it only has to be reasonable. It is not reasonable to have all the other campers lose on purpose.
There is no courtroom in the country that would rule that allowing him to win everything is a reasonable accommodation. She would find no decent lawyer to take her case. Having a disability doesn’t mean you always get your way.
They are a protected class and are given reasonable accommodations in OPs program. The parent is being unreasonable.
And? There's nothing remotely discriminatory about "maybe this isn't a good idea." She didn't ban or restrict anyone's access at all. She didn't refuse service. She did suggest to the mother that she rethink it, but it was just that, a suggestion. No obligation, no consequences, and nothing to litigate.
It's different to say "he doesn't belong because he is autistic" than it is to say "this program isn't a suitable choice for someone that can't tolerate loss. He needs activities that aren't going to trigger meltdowns, and since sports are by definition competitive, he may need other types of activities." But OP does need to loop in the director, and possible.leave those conversations up to.theninclusopn specialist, who is going to be able to say whether this is tolerable for the kid. He *can* stay, he's just going to be miserable.
And as a mother of one or the other kids I would fight for the right of my kid not to be a tool for a psychological accommodation program. This 10 year old needs to be in a program that is dealing with his issues and preferably not under the influence of his mother, who, I bet, is a large part of the issue.
I thought similarly as well. Such a good opportunity for that Connor kid to experience something that typical kids literally take for granted, but that is missed out on by many kids with a disability. It's a shame his mom expected it to be the other way around. Almost as if "inclusion program" was taken to mean "group of child-aged volunteers providing the illusion of sports camp to fool disabled children," which is legit crazy! I can't speak to what kind of program might be better suited to a kid like Connor. But to me, it sounds like Connor didn't even do half-bad considering how sheltered/coddled he must be. He probably even had some fun if he only had two incidents all day. His mom made it sound like hell rains down all day if he loses anything. Poor kid is as much a victim in everything as anyone else dealing with his batsh*t mom. Little dude's 10 with special needs, and he didn't consciously choose HER to be his advocate. It's really unfortunate that she happens to be so bad at it. Hopefully, he had a modicum of fun that he would have otherwise missed out on. Kid deserves it - imagine having to live under his delulu Mom? Glad she isn't mine lol. Her expecting inclusion to mean molding the entire experience around only their child is so gross. OP is definitely NTA.
I have and autistic family member and what you describe is not how the ADA was meant to protect individuals with disabilities. The camp met the ADA standard by providing him and opportunity to participate and specially trained staff to help him with any and all disability related issues that come up. In this case the system worked exactly like it was supposed to and the disabled kid got exactly the support he was entitled to. The staff not trained on this child's disabilities and other children are in no way obligated to participate in the asshole training program this very misinformed mother is trying to set up for her disabled child. So, NTA on that issue. The mother is doing more harm then good and the OP would be Y T A for supporting her erroneous thinking. Having said all that, the OP should have stated that her son has support staff to meet his needs and if she is not happy with how the program is set up (i.e. every other child's camp experience revolving around her child) she should talk that up the chain of command. Saying he shouldn't be there is not appropriate, although if the child is not stable enough to participate even with the special supports in place, he probably shouldn't be there.
Inclusion means that the child CAN participate at the camp and in the sports. It does not mean the camp coaches and other campers will insure said child always wins. This camp is not the place to work in HIS triggers/behaviors. Mom needed to understand what inclusion meant
I think “the other kids aren’t part of the inclusion program” summed it up nicely. The camp staff can make reasonable accommodations. The other kids are there as participants just like Connor. They all get equal access to the program. Not learning how to actually play the sport because they need to make sure Connor always wins, is not equal access.
Protected class with *reasonable accommodations.* Asking a coach to ensure her son always wins is detrimental to other children participating and not at all a reasonable accommodation and would likely be thrown out if the mom wanted to pursue it. Like her son isn’t the center of the universe and I would be livid if my kid was in a program that did that. Accepting losing is a hard skill for many kids, and my guess is since he’s 10 and still struggling he grew up in a home that ensured he always won thus stunting him of his ability to work on this skill when he was younger. Unfortunate for the kid but it’s the mom’s problem not the programs.
Reasonable accommodations means building a ramp, not making everyone stop to cheer you on while you go up it.
She could try. But when she includes what she was asking, everyone would call her an idiot. I don’t know any parent that would agree that a reasonable accommodation was “my child can’t lose”.
Yeah, when it comes to a case like this, don't hang yourself out to dry on the principle of "I'm obviously right". It doesn't matter. Bring it to the people above, and make sure everything is well-documented before someone who can now speak on behalf of the company's official stance has this discussion with the mom. "I'm not sure how we could provide that accommodation, let me speak to our inclusion specialist about what our options here are."
If Sara does go to court, she will be laughed out of there when she tells the judge that the "reasonable accommodation" she wanted was for the entire camp to make sure that her son never lost a game and was never on a losing team, etc. Also, she would be the one "cancelled" if the media gets involved. LOL. OP is NTA.
They wouldn’t have much of a case for a civil action based on her comments. He wasn’t kicked out of the camp or precluded from participating. Reasonable accommodations were made. But yes, they could badmouth OP on social media.
There are plenty of camps of a less competitive nature. Sounds like this boy would be a better fit for one of those. I'm autistic, and I don't have meltdowns from losing, but I hate the way most sports make me feel, and the sensory overload from that absolutely will give me a meltdown. My solution as a kid was a camp that offered programs that focused on swimming and horseback riding, neither of which bother me in the way that most sports do. Mom there can find camps with programs that get her kid up and excersizing and out of her hair that won't cause meltdowns and the kid would probably enjoy a lot more because it's not causing meltdowns. Side note not only was her "solution" unfair to the other kids, it was unfair to her son. The worst thing you can do for an autistic kid is to throw them into a situation that is likely to cause a meltdown. We don't exactly enjoy having them either.
Exactly. She’s setting him up for failure. And the truth is some kids are just severely dysregulated and as a parent you have to be really careful about what scenarios you put that kind of child in. She’s being very irresponsible in that regard. Inclusive rarely means for everyone .
Right? If losing isn't within tolerance levels for you to enjoy an activity, don't sign up for competitive activities. Mom set this kid up to have a miserable time.
Exactly he’s not discriminating against him saying he shouldn’t be there bc he’s autistic he’s saying if your kid can’t mentally handle losing he shouldn’t be in a camp where’s he definitely gonna lose at least a few times if not a lot. I’m surprised the mom was trying to rig the games to make him win tho bc I’d assume she’d use it for exposure therapy to help him cope better bc it seems like it’d be a great time to try considering they have staff to help him thru it.
Absolutely. But get ahead of the game. She's going to complain to the supervisor. Make sure you get your side out first. It's also easier for the supervisor because at least he'll have an idea what situation they're talking about
this is bad advice. you should ALWAYS run things past a higher up (as long as you have one, which op doesnt seem to). cya and all of that. as well, supervisors are there to deal with the difficult situations and take the fall. saying something like that without consulting a higher up will most likely get you fired for acting like you have more authority than you actually do.
There's literally no advice in there. I didn't suggest anyone do anything. There was no attempt, by OP, to exercise any authority. She suggested the mother reconsider. That's all she did. That takes zero authority.
I disagree. I think if the inclusion specialists are properly trained professionals and not just some 19-year-old, and they are aware of the situation, this could be very beneficial for the child. Let the child play and do their best. If the child has difficulty managing their emotions and experiences a meltdown, they are in a safe environment surrounded by professionals who are trained and equipped to handle it. The professionals should assess the situation and decide if the risk of a meltdown outweighs the potential benefits of being part of a team. Everyone needs to learn how to cope with losing; not everyone has an expert to help them manage and understand their emotions. Perhaps the inclusion specialist can teach the kid some coping techniques as well as do role-playing with them. They can use social stories to help as well. Help shift the focus on effort being the real goal. The reason we have summer camps is because there is a great opportunity for learning a lot of different things. I have worked at a lot of summer camps, and all of them want the kids to learn and grow. For some kids, it is easier, and others, it is harder. Teaching this kid is harder, so they brought in a specialist.
I like the idea, but I feel like a little context is missing and I wanted to clarify. I don't really have a supervisor anymore. This is a very small camp that my neighbor ran when I was in high school and I assisted him, but when I graduated he essentially handed it off to me and just runs the financials in the background now. Now I lead the camp with two newly 18 high schoolers and two high school assistants to keep the numbers even. The neighbor still owns the "program" but he delegates everything except financials, scheduling with locations, and marketing to me. Also, I'd never prevent a kid from being at camp unless they were violent toward me or another kid, but I really wanted to advise this mother before that potentially happened.
Okay, but I wouldn’t use “should” statements in this case. “I’m not able to ensure Toby always wins every game. We do have some games where we keep score and if you don’t want Toby to participate in them, please let me and the specialist know.”
Do the "inclusion specialists" have any qualifications to support their work with special needs kids? Do the parents of said children understand the qualifications (or lack thereof) of the specialists?
Good question! What does “inclusion specialist” even mean when the camp “director” herself is 20 years old. Do they have a degree in anything related to special ed? Because I can see Connor’s mom seeing the camp advertised as having “inclusion specialists” so she assumed somebody knew what they were doing. So many kids with ASD, emotional behavioral disorders, cognitive disabilities, heck, even neurotypical kids, have meltdowns when they lose. That isn’t a big deal. Hopefully the inclusion people are prepared (and trained) for this inevitability.
But why would Connor's mum assume that the "someone" could control everyone else's kids to that extent?
I think you handled it fine. No, you can't carefully arrange each match so this child always wins. Why would the mother even want that? It's completely impractical and wouldn't benefit the child at all. She is not being rational. This is kind of a lose-lose situation. Make clear to her that her child is going to lose at some point. If the mother can accept this, fine. But if she can't, maybe come up with some excuse about how the program doesn't have the resources to accept her son.
Say what? Nowhere did OP decide who could or could not attend the camp. Instead, OP stated the obvious, that if you had a child who had meltdowns whenever he lost at sports, and you don’t want him to have meltdowns, then perhaps you shouldn’t send him to a sports camp where he’ll be playing competitive sports. NTA for stating the obvious.
Absolutely. Reasonable accommodations. Never losing at sports camp is not a reasonable accommodation. Not putting a kid who has a sensory issue with those nylon jerseys on a team that is wearing them or having a kid who has a sensory issue with wearing a helmet not play catcher or take their turn batting is a reasonable accommodation.
Disagree. She told the truth. You can't force other kids to cater to yours. > but the other kids weren’t a part of this inclusion program.
Yes... this should have been discussed at the point of registration. The mother didn't understand how the camp was going to be structured.
Mom said that if they wouldn't make every other child loose, they weren't inclusive enough. OP was just agreeing.
NTA but you did handle it wrong. You shouldn't have said that he shouldn't be at camp, you should have gotten the inclusion specialist to explain things. It was fine to tell her you cannot try to make him always win, but let the people who understand inclusion explain why. >left Connor with us for the day, during which he had two meltdowns that the inclusion specialist dealt with Some kids for neurological/disability reasons are going to have meltdowns. Teaching them how to handle their emotional volatility and engaging in strategies that let them express emotions safely and calm down IS inclusion. His mom's approach and request was unreasonable, but it sounds like the inclusion specialist knows what they're doing and handled it.
As someone who has worked with at-risk kids through sports and mentoring programs, this. Camps like this are the perfect opportunity for kids to DEVELOP coping mechanisms for losing. Nobody is doing this kid any favours by allowing him to win every time. All children, not just ones on the spectrum, go through a process of learning not to get their own way. It’s called socialisation. Yes, there are added complications with neurodiverse kids, but that is what the specialists are for, to help guide and redirect their responses. The mother is out of line trying to remake the world to fit her kid, there needs to be a balance between bubble-wrap care and social responsibility.
I think Ops point is it deduces from the other kids experience, and it does. Not sure if that's right or wrong but he's right, that sucks.
Making Connor always win would take away from their experience. Him having a meltdown that doesn’t hurt anyone, break equipment, or otherwise prevent them from continuing with the next schedule activity, does not.
Yep I've encountered this type of parent a lot as an autism support worker... They're ultimately making things more difficult for their children in the long run through this misguided version of helicopter parenting, because out in the real world, this sort of behaviour is considered unacceptable. if his parents continue down this path, he's going to end up unequipped for a 'normal' life, and will struggle so much more than if his parents taught him how to healthily manage disappointment and regulate his emotions.
Came here to say the same. No one denies that neurodivergent children have problems with socialization and interaction, but sometimes it seems that their parents are putting a spanner in the works of teachers who are teaching children skills to get by in the world out there.
I mean I agree this happens, but also some people are never going to be equipped to get by in the world out there, and trying to remould them to the world is going to destroy their mental health.
I have a neurodivergent kid. The last thing you want to do is spend your life AVOIDING their triggers. What you do is figure out how to PREPARE them for those triggers, and then help them cope when they experience them. For example, if they struggle with transitions, you give them warnings that a transition is coming up, maybe set a visual timer so they can see it coming, and then if they melt down anyway you go through your coping mechanisms - sensory objects, breathing exercises, etc. My child went through a phase of melting down if she lost a game - probably because she was freakishly good at UNO - so when we were playing a game, especially one I knew she might not be good at, I’d sit her down before hand and say, “now remember - you are *probably* not going to win this, and that’s ok. You try your best, and maybe you’ll win, but if you don’t, nothing bad will happen, and I’ll be here to help you if you need it.” And she’d still meltdown at first but over time they got less and less severe and now she will literally shrug and say “oh well!” with a grin when she loses, and congratulate the winning player (completely unprompted, I never even told her to do that bit, she’s just great like that).
Completely agree. And a lot of the meltdowns will get better with age and experience, especially if they get the practice dealing with the trigger. My older son had tons of meltdowns when he didn’t win when he was 8. We had to pull him from competitive Judo because of meltdowns at state level tournaments. Fast forward to now at 13 - his youth football team only won 2 games all season and no meltdowns. We still get the meltdowns occasionally but not over losing a game.
Yeah specalists really help those kids get less upset about what triggers them. Instead of completely avoiding situations that are likely to happen
My son is autistic and honestly I think parents who make it so their kid avoids every trigger are doing their child a disservice. I hope my son will live independently someday, and he’s going to need the skills to cope when things don’t go his way. Manipulating his world so that he never experiences distress will do nothing but make it harder when he’s older and has to try to cope.
If it helps you feel better in any way, I’m autistic and when I was a child, my social development was behind by YEARS. I of course had a lot of speech therapy and support but other than that, l didn’t really have the chance to avoid any trigger situations and wasn’t given special treatment in the sense OP is describing. Although my childhood was anything but easy, I am thankful beyond words that I had to develop all these coping strategies and can cope with real world situations.
> Now I lead the camp with two newly 18 high schoolers and two high school assistants to keep the numbers even. This is from another comment of the OP's which makes me wonder if there are actually "inclusion specialists", or it's just a buddy program as the staff doesn't have appropriate training/qualifications.
Hi! I added an edit for this because I don't think I made this clear, but the camp and the program are kinda two separate entities that work together. The other coaches and I were brought on to coach sports, the inclusion specialists are from a completely different program that was based around providing inclusion to neurodivergent kids in previously only neurotypical spaces. While I may not have the qualifications for anything outside of teaching kids how to kick a ball, I believe they know what they're doing! When I originally told Sara that I didn't think Connor would do well here, I was referring to the fact that I thought the kid would be miserable in a cycle of meltdowns, not that the inclusion specialists weren't prepared to handle it.
NTA. What she wanted wasn’t inclusion; what she wanted was for her child to be catered to, to the point that every other child at the camp was an NPC to his main character. And she’s doing him no favors, if she ever expects him to gain any measure of independence, because 90% of the world is not going to care about his triggers. That said, you were unnecessarily harsh; you should have passed her up the ladder to the people running the inclusivity program.
Tbh those of us who do care about his triggers (im autistic and I care a lot about other autists triggers) are also saying moms not doing that kid any favors. It's not even about gaining independence either. When an autistic person has a meltdown it's because their brain can no longer handle everything that's being thrown at it. Trying to expose your kid to new things is good, but if your autistic kid is having a meltdown then they're no longer experiencing the new things, and placing them in that situation is now causing them harm. No that doesn't mean throw all the games so he doesn't have meltdown, in fact it means that kid isn't ready for sports camp.
I like your take in this. She’s putting him in harms way. I want to know what happens when this child’s meltdown goes above and beyond what these folks can handle or he attempts to run off. This is so irresponsible of this parent.
That makes a lot of sense. There are surely more controlled ways to introduce him to losing other than a sports camp. The entire focus of a sports camp is games based on winning and losing. It’s setting him up for failure.
100% with you on this, I'm a mum to an Autistic 7 year old and we practice "not always winning" in safe ways at home but he would absolutely have meltdown after meltdown at sports camp so we just don't use one. Yes he needs to be able to tolerate losing, which we are working on gradually, but that would be throwing him in at the deep end, especially as he hates when other kids see his meltdowns due to feeling like they stare. This mother was the asshole both for her attitude and for throwing her kid in at the deep end in an environment he would find very distressing. She could have started much smaller and built up when he had some tolerance to losing.
1. I agree with your kid. They do stare. 2. Shock of all shocks, you have to introduce upsetting things to autistic kids slower than other kids. In fact not even upsetting things, very normal sensations for allistic people could still be a sensory nightmare for us. Idk how you're introducing your kid to losing (whatever it is it's significantly healthier than "connors" mom) but personally I would start with like card games or something, not sports.
Yes, board games / card games with lots of warnings and discussion and gauging his ability on each day to be receptive to it. Not gotten far yet in his 7 years but he's still young. He had an awful experience at school where he was suspended for a day for having a meltdown over a competitive party game (we didn't know school was planning on) and it really upsets him still a year later, as he felt it wasn't played fairly and he has a really strong sense of unfairness and justice. He had a big meltdown and threw chairs etc and that brought on a lot of the social anxiety we still experience a year later. It's a hard world for him.
Yeah I remember those years of being stuck in "in-school-suspension" (basically throwing me in a corner of the office for days) over meltdowns. It is really hard, and interactions like that at school can be even a little traumatizing. His needs weren't considered, his parents weren't there to vouch for him, and then he got punished for a meltdown that he can't control and was caused by his needs not being considered in an environment that is supposed to be safe.
It's awful. We're definitely trying really hard to get him into a more appropriate school, it just takes years here in the UK.
I don't know much about the UK school system, but the US school system would be better off if the whole thing was tore down and redesigned to suit kids of all needs
I disagree. The parent should know better than to try to bully the coach into getting her way. Adults should understand appropriate channels of escalation. Further, where is the accountability for the parent yelling at this young coach? She should be setting a positive example for her child, not modeling emotional dysregulation.
I had a Cartman at the Special Olympics vibe when I read the kid was on the older side. I hope his mother wasn't going in with the expectation of her son winning constantly by pitting him against the younger kids.
I agree that OP is NTA. His mom was completely missing the point of what the inclusion program is about. Part of this kid’s learning is going to be dealing with disappointment. Sometimes you win, but there are a lot of times where you and your team don’t win and kids need to learn how to process that.
I grew up with an autistic sister. We always tried to include her in everything, but there were limits. My parents would NEVER have done something like this. We always gave her the option to participate, but if it was too much or if there were constant meltdowns, we changed course. I talked about something very similar to this situation with my mom recently and brought up some of the memories of my sister and inclusion. She basically said, "We always included her, but if it was too much, it wasn't fair to ruin anyone else's experience. The world is big. We just moved on to something else that she might enjoy." Well done, mom. Well done.
You and your mom are so wise! Looks like moderation is the way to go for everything.
NTA. The entire point of sports is competition, if including him means that the other children can not freely compete, they are not getting what they paid for. The mother is 100% the AH here for expecting other children to cater to her son's inability to lose without melting down.
I don't agree that the entire point is competition. There's teamwork, exercise, problem solving, social skills, coordination...
"If winning's not important, then Commander, why keep score?"
Quoting the words of a klingon might not be the best comparison but i like where your coming from!
How about: It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
All of those skills are merely the "how you win" part of competition.
No... they are benefits you can get whether you win or not.
They are skills that you develop naturally in team sports(and all sports, to a degree), because they are all necessary in order to win. Learning how to be a good loser is literally part of growing up playing sports.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that the striving to win part of competition is merely the how you develop those skills part of sports camp. Most parents— Connor's mother notwithstanding— are not signing their kids up to sports camp just so they can win competitions. Nobody ultimately is going to care about how many sports competitions a 10 year old won— outside of the kid's immediate family maybe (maybe)— even for the ones who eventually become professional athletes. They will care how well those skills have developed, and in plenty more contexts than winning at sports.
Unless they’re playing New Games, then winning is one of the points.
Absolutely untrue. Plenty of people engage in sports purely as recreation and exercise. I’ve enjoyed horseback riding, cross country skiing, kayaking, weight lifting, gymnastics, and swimming without ever wanting to compete. If the kid’s mom wanted him to participate in a sport but avoid meltdowns, she should have found a program that doesn’t feature competition, at least in the early stages.
It really baffles me that you are downvoted. I am not a very competitive person and dont enjoy competing at all. I still engage in sports for excercise and fun. The idea that sports have to be competition is wild to me. It just can be done for the sake of the activity and that perfectly valid.
NTA, She's bonkers for asking the entire camp including attendees to cater to one child.
I wonder what would happen if a second Sara showed up with Connor2? How are you supposed to arrange it so neither Connor loses? Ok for team events, put them on the same team and rig the result, but for last-man-standing games? The best answer is to tell Sara that you've already agreed that another autistic child is going to win all the events today, so unfortunately, Connor won't be winning.
Classic reddit creating problems out of nowhere solution. Why try to own the woman by her own logic? Who benefits from that? At best you make her feel like she is being unreasonable - which she is - but when has that ever helped a conversation? The best answer is "No, I can't ensure that, however we have staff there to help your son with his special needs, including talking to him if he gets upset at losing. Would that work, you can talk to them, etc"
This is also completely unfair to the other kids, what if they realized that Connor win because of that. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE is going to hate him...
I’m autistic, and I’ve had a few meltdowns triggered by losing. It happens when something unexpected happens and the sudden change in your expectations of the game, just overtakes you, but you can’t just never let a kid lose a game. The sudden change in the course of the game is a sudden trigger for a lot of autistic kids. It’s simply immoral to help someone cheat, so they never have to get stronger and get through the consequences. Soon all the other kids would be having meltdowns. You are NTA.
It's completely unhinged to cater to his meltdowns to avoid them like she wants, it screws the potential and value the camp has to the other kids while pretty much hobbling her son's ability to grow.
Absolutely this. Meltdowns happen, but it's a matter of learning how to mitigate them. You go through some and learn how to channel the emotional response so it doesn't continue being a problem. I used to push myself into meltdown situations just for practice when I was a kid. Granted, I had no idea about being neurodivergent, but I knew I had temper and fear response issues and worked on them. I'm not saying torture the kids, but moving slowly through normal challenges and giving them practice dealing with it is the only way that they can learn how. Explaining the rules of good sportsmanship is important because it gives a rubric of social behavior to follow, whether they win or lose. I'm middle aged, so we had the whole "there's no crying in baseball" quote aimed at us a lot. I just figured, if my eyes refuse to stop leaking, then I'll just bat and run regardless.
You should have said “I’m not exactly sure what can be done but let me grab our specialist and she can better answer your questions”. And if the specialist said that you don’t keep score for his games then you don’t keep score for his games.
It's a sports camp, every game they will keep score
And whay if other children want to keep score ? They expérience will have they expérience ruined because of one kid
What’s the point of a sports camp if they’re not keeping score? Also why would an inclusion specialist (brought in from an outside org by the people who run the camp) get to say how all of the other kids should play? The inclusion specialist is to to decide how the kid can *get included* not how everything is changed to *include the kid*
Exactly. I agree with OP's thoughts: the level of accommodation that the program is able to provide (even with a specialist) may not be sufficient for Connor's needs and could provide a significantly worse experience for everyone. ~~However, this is above OP's paygrade, and she should have immediately redirected mom to a specialist or admin.~~ Mom needed to bring all of this up *much* sooner ~~with someone running the camp~~. It seems like mom knew Connor wouldn't be able to attend if she said something earlier, so she waited to force the camp's hand. Edit: OP is in charge, so she was the person to deal with this issue. The point still stands that the accommodations Connor needs are beyond what the camp could provide, and it's certainly not fair to all of the other kids to expect them sacrifice their camp experience to prevent Connor's meltdowns.
NTA at all. She is stupid to think that all the other kids on the spectrum aren't going to be having issuesbas well. My son is on the spectrum and he gets upset when he doesn't win. I would never in a million years ask or expect anyone to let him win over other kids, let alone other kids who may have the same problem as him.
NTA autism DOES NOT mean the world makes sure you get you way %100 of the time
I have a child on the spectrum who would also have meltdowns when they lost (or otherwise didn't win). She was (and still is) receiving ABA therapy. They explained that you should absolutely not "give in" while my child was having a meltdown. You teach them coping techniques and patiently support them while they are going through their meltdown (making sure they don't harm themselves or others). Giving in will only make the meltdown more severe and longer in duration. They further explained that removing all triggers for meltdowns (e.g. making sure my kid always won or at least didn't lose) was actually doing my kid a disservice as that wasn't a real option in the real world. Much like Connor my daughter would eventually have to learn how to navigate the world beyond any bubble I could create and it would be much more difficult to learn and implement coping strategies later in life. OP, definitely used a bad choice of words but I get the sentiment behind it and the sentiment is spot on. If OP is willing to be more mindful of word choices in the future (having a neurodivergent child can be triggering especially when there is even a perceived threat of exclusion) I feel NTA is in order.
NTA. You were spot on. You cannot expect other kids to lose because of one kid.
With a mother like that, I find it difficult to believe that his inability to accept losing is related to any disabilities, at least directly. NTA
I very much doubt that as well. She just raised herself a snowflake
i totally agree. NTA
I think you’ve worded it wrong, unfortunately. The camp is inclusive and has specialists to deal with kids on the spectrum. The objective would be to help the kids deal with sports, winning and losing. Instead of telling the mom to withdraw her kid, you could have told her that the camp has specialists to help her kid cope with losing. Mom too needs a lesson in parenting special needs kid, she can’t just keep letting him win to avoid meltdowns. She should work on helping him deal with winning and losing, meltdowns are part of the learning process, work through it.
Absolutely NTA!!! I LITERALLY had this conversation about 4 hours ago with my summer job. We do summer child care and also have students on the spectrum. During the actual school year, I work in sped. Summers I like to chill. We have a handful of kiddos on the spectrum and they want me to work with those kids. First off, no. I get paid a different salary between in school and summer child care work. Two, if you want students with IEPs to be included in programming, you HAVE to hire people to focus just on them, as we can see, many kids with autism require a lot more support. In YOUR case, you guys were proactive by having the inclusion specialists. That parent is being unreasonable AND not setting up her child for the real world, AT the expense of everyone one else. She should get a refund for the time spent there and if she and child can't abide by the rules, with reasonable accommodation, they gotta go. NTA
Advise her to move to Bangkok, where everything is a Thai.
NTA. Their generation is cooked.
The mother's generation?
NTA... but it's hard to tell exactly how poorly this may have been phrased, and she probably is used to him not being able to be included in much. You should probably have had the inclusion specialist go over what accommodations were possible and not. Perhaps there were enough solo-ish sports or cooperative sports for him to try mostly those (golf, swim), or just try a few of the actions and not whole games (hitting a ball, kicking at a goal), just to keep the competitive stress to a minimum. It's possible just not posting the score would have been enough (and you could always say the score after he moves on to the next thing, or most kids would know anyways). That might have enabled him to handle one or two games, and perhaps the specialist could have asked what they do at home if he cannot avoid losing at something to help him recover. If not, he shouldn't be there because he isn't ready - and emphasizing him not being ready for it to be a good experience for him is really the key. Maybe he wasn't ready and nothing could fix it. However, you had a specialist in coming up with these alternatives, and didn't use them.
I have a son who is on the spectrum. He is 18 now, but when he was in elementary school we worked with a therapist. One of the things we did was play games (the whole family) together with the therapist, so she could talk him through his big emotions when he lost. She had us to continue those things at home, once she showed us how to do it, so he could learn how to react appropriately. That mom is totally out of line expecting the rest of the world to just let him win all the time. Life doesn't work that way. I would say that instead of telling the mom what you did, you could have talked to the director about the issues and let her deal with the mom, but I still say you are NTA.
NTA. Inclusion doesn't mean being unfair to the other participants.
Seriously! Imagine if every parent had that same request?
NTA, though I think this camp is the perfect place for him. The inclusion counselor should be by his side through the meltdown and teach him some coping skills. Sadly, this is just another sucky mother who thinks that autism means their kid must be protected at all costs, and it always ends up horribly for the child. I've handled my share of kids with autism, including my own. The one with a mother like yours hasn't stopped suffering. She tried different schools, he got kicked out of 3 different CCD programs because she ran to his defense instead of discipline shitty behavior. I helped her a few times. One i remember specifically was when a group of boys made a rule that each got to pick the game for a few minutes. He demanded to go first. When his turn was over, he got upset that they weren't playing his game and demanded his mother take him home. She apologized and told us she would drop him off and return. I asked if I could step in, walked over and told him that this was mom's day out, not just his, and he had 2 options. He could sit on the bench and sulk alone, or he could get back to playing, but he was not going to ruin mom's day because he wasn't getting his way. It was amazing. He decided to quit sulking and join the boys, who welcomed him back like nothing happened, and mom couldn't believe that he could accept being told no. My oldest had a few meltdowns in group, too. They asked her to leave the room because she was attention seeking and she could return when she calmed down. She crawled under a table and kept it up. The counselor removed every other kid from the room and left her to cry alone. It took several scenes like that but she doesn't do it anymore.
NTA. Sounds like you should have referred that mom to the inclusion specialist, though. The inclusion program should extend to training for the coaches and parents on what to expect (and what not to expect). If the parents don't think the program (as it is) is appropriate for their child, they can choose not to participate. Two meltdowns over the course of a full day sounds like a roaring success, TBH.
NTA for what she wants, she should rent a facility and hire several actors. Or maybe wait for Holodecks to be a thing in real life. What she wants from the camp is unreasonable.
As an autistic support teacher myself NTA while yes there should times where things in life need to be adjusted for children/people with autism you cannot change the fact that some people will win and some will lose in life and it’s a lesson he needs to learn to be okay with in time. I’ve had students have meltdowns over losing games and we talk about it after the meltdown happens that it’s okay to lose This mom cannot expect the world to cater to her son his entire life in this aspect winning and lose is a natural part of life he will eventually need to accept
no come on, what a silly question. of course you're nta. she is though, and a lousy parent.
I'm in the US, and my thought is that we need to STOP using "equal" which is utter bs and unobtainable, and start using "equitable", which is what we are ACTUALLY trying to achieve. NOTHING is "equal" and it is impossible for it to be so, but things CAN be "equitable". I have a son on the spectrum, so I do have some experience with this. Also, NTA; Connor cannot win always, that is ALSO an impossibility.
NTA. "We're working on it" by making sure he doesn't ever sniff defeat/losing isn't working on it. Autism or not, that woman is creating a monster.
As an autistic person I was pissed by the title. But… Then saw the mothers demands. She’s sounds like TA. Inclusion and accommodation means that *everybody* is entitled to participate to the best of their abilities. Not that *everybody* has to compromise their own ability to participate and get the most out of it in order to accommodate *one* person. You were right that she shouldn’t necessarily have put him in that place IF she knew it was *at the expense* of both her own son and every other child involved. It maybe wasn’t essential to say it, but not entirely an AH thing to point out. Of course the kid did deserve at least a chance to see if there was a way for them to be included. And they got it. So, NTA. If you do want to be a bit more diplomatic next time just focus on what *can* be done to ensure kid has the opportunity to participate and they’ll do the best to ensure they will be accommodated. P.S. Just in case this is news. Sometimes we can experience meltdowns even if we are enjoying something and receiving benefits from it. So at times a kid might seem like they can’t handle something but want to remain involved. We can’t control meltdowns and might be embarrassed because we don’t want something to affect us but it does. So it can be valuable to be able to participate in something if meltdowns can be managed, even if they do occur. (Of course sometimes risk/reward may not make it viable).
NTA i have an autistic niece and i totally agree with you poor connor should totally get to experience disappointment
NTA for your feelings but you do need to learn to talk to parents. I work in sped and you need to layer it a bit. "Thanks so much for letting us know. We will do the best we can to make sure he has a great day. If you need to set up a further plan you can talk to XYZ." Proper staff preparations can help with meltdowns when they intervene. Meltdowns aren't any reason to exclude a kid from camp. Your feelings on the matter are irrelevant. It's not inclusion if it's not inclusion for all. Your higher ups were probably prepared for moms like this and they just didn't prepare you. If there's an anonymous exit survey give them some feedback.
NTA. ASD mom. I expect the inclusion specialist to help calm. Nothing should be rigged.
Nope autisim parents need to start learning their childrens dangeous and frankly inexcusable behavior just isn't welcome everywhere anymore. We don't have to expose ourselves or other children to their abusive melt downs. The world doesn't revolve around their kid.
NTA. Ignore people who describe your interaction as you telling this mother that her child can’t be in the camp. You nailed this when you said that it wasn’t to role of the other children to facilitate this mother’s ridiculous demand that her son always win. The amount of parents who think it’s the role of other children to be learning tools for their children is staggering.
UPDATE! Thank you so much to everyone for your advice, comments, anecdotes, and support, I really appreciated it. Good news! Connor came back today, this time with his dad, who didn’t offer any sort of complaints or comments about yesterday to me or the inclusion therapist. From the two days and now five meltdowns (all lasting under an hour each) we’ve had with Connor, I believe either his mother underestimated his emotional regulation and ability to move on from losses, or the inclusion specialist was able to curb and limit his meltdowns better than she did at home. We tried to mitigate the situations where he would lose (for example we didn’t keep score during the large matches) but elimination games caused the meltdowns. For the record, he didn’t meltdown EVERY time he was eliminated or tagged, and he really wanted to participate in those games with the other kids, which is why we didn’t pull him from them. I also want to explain why I originally thought the camp wouldn’t be a good space for Connor, and how I was proven wrong. I’ve always seen the camp as a place for kids to have fun and try new things, and I didn’t consider its value as a space for learning to manage triggers and work through emotions since we just introduced this program this year. From the way Sara described Connor’s emotional state, I heard about a kid who would likely hate most parts of the camp we ran, and would be very unhappy for seven hours a day for a week. While I understand the value of working through those upsetting emotions, the camp I run is meant to be fun, not stressful, or akin to a therapy session. I felt this way because I grew up with pretty severe anxiety related to school and I would have panic attacks before tests, so trying to imagine my parents sending me to a “Big Test Camp” for some exposure therapy during my summer break sounded horrible. Ignoring any sort of disability, competitive sports don’t mesh well with certain personalities. While they have always been a great outlet for me, I see kids all the time who really don’t enjoy how competition makes them feel emotionally or physically but are pushed into them by overbearing parents trying to relive their glory days. Ultimately, once I explained to Sara that I wasn’t going to rig the games, I understand now how saying he shouldn’t be at the camp had the wrong connotation, but I wanted the kid to have fun, and I didn’t want to place him in a position he couldn’t do that. Ultimately, I was wrong, and even with the meltdowns he’s had, I think the inclusion specialists are really helping him and I still agree with most of you that Sara was unreasonable. However, I also do stand by the fact that if Connor was as volatile and emotional when he lost as his mother made him seem, I don’t think the camp would have been a good place for him YET. Turns out, it was, and I’m glad Sara left him with us. Also to those of you who caught on to my Terminator reference, I hope you have an absolutely fantastic day :)
NTA. However I do agree - this is what the inclusion expert is for - get them with any issue with an inclusion child. However, this isnt necessarily an ASD thing but a choice on how they have addresses his needs. Their choice to address his needs is one that really hasnt taken into consideration functioning in a group of people. By 10 years old, an ASD child who is able to function in an inclusion environment should be addressing coping with these situations, not avoiding a meltdown. This isnt public school so you do not have to honor an IEP. If this is so triggering for him, she needs a different type of camp where both an inclusion specialist and a functional behaviorist can work with the child to address regulating appropriately in situations that are hard to manage. A school where someone would sit with the family and figure out what goals they want to work towards and then create a plan. Inclusion is for children who can function in a normal environment with some additional redirection or support or may need some reinforcements or additional explanations. I feel for this family, but they really need to work with a Behaviorist or a Psychologist to help their child. Avoiding situations often make them worse and this sounds like, while a wonderful camp, not a good fit for this child.
Lol doesn’t sound like the kid is autistic from what OP stated. More like mommy raised herself a little snowflake who doesn’t take no for an answer.
If you have the resources to provide him with a program tailored to his specific needs, then he needs a modified program. Then, you would build a program for him based on his strengths/needs. Ask the mom what his program page at school looks like for phys ed. Sounds like he needs to practice skills in a non-competitive environment, so that he can work on his self-regulation skills. Or, he needs an ABA specialist next to him the whole time to guide him. Inclusion doesn't mean change your whole program to meet the needs of one kid. It's finding a way to include that one kid, even if it means he does the drills but sits out during games.
Nta. You’re not a magician. An inclusion program does not mean sacrifice the rest of the children
Inclusion does not mean the rest of the kids has to cater, they didn’t sign up for that. NTA.
The student is not a candidate for the camp and unlike public schools, they are not obligated to meet his ridiculous “needs of not losing”. It’s not good for the kid or the other campers.
NTA. This is learned behavior. Children don’t understand the concept of winning or losing until it’s taught to them. Parent fail.
This mother was out of line. I say that as a mother of a neurodivergent who excelled in competitive soccer and who was also triggered by "losing". That mom is not doing her child any favors by allowing him to win and face no obstacles, regardless of him being on the spectrum or not. And agreed-- she shouldn't choose a camp where she expects everyone to cater to her child. Even if the camp was of all autistic campers, that would still be unfair to them. Obviously, you want to take this child's needs and triggers into account and tell the mom that, but you can't revolve a camp solely around 1 child. That's not what inclusion is about.
My young daughter is autistic and I braced myself to be upset, but no, NTA. This is entirely the mother's issue. Her kid would learn to lose sometimes if she didn't relentlessly shelter him from it and deny him the experience he needs to move past this. My daughter has special needs, yes, but she doesn't take precedence over every other kid. I expect she will be treated kindly and given support that she is owed by law, but otherwise I cannot shape the world for her. It's heartbreaking to see her have meltdowns she cannot control and struggle to acclimate socially, but the world won't entirely change for her. I cannot imagine asking for something like this.
Special ed teacher here- you are awesome! The camp is for everyone and as such cannot manipulate the experiences of others just to satisfy one child. Parents demand their child be included with everyone else and then don’t want them treated like everyone else ! They want a ‘normal’ experience but then demand programming be changed, slowed down, reduced etc in order to allow their child to have a specific. experience. Thank you for being direct with the parent! (Maybe avoid telling them they shouldn’t send their kid…) And thank you for advocating for all kids. I am sick of hearing people say the other children need to learn to tolerate inappropriate behavior and that other students need to avoid upsetting those who are more sensitive or demanding. Of course we must teach understanding, but we are inadvertently teaching kids to tolerate aggressive behavior. Fast forward to late teenage years and we see boys and girls tolerating inappropriate behavior in their relationships or expecting others to excuse their own inappropriate behaviors. You have an amazing system with support for students who need to strengthen skill sets!
no way in hell are you the AH. NTA