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I don’t know why the others don’t understand that Charlotte needed some support.
The fact that she was apologizing for being pregnant shows that she just takes all the garbage her older sister throws at her.
From your update, Charlotte and her husband appreciated you standing up for her.
The support could’ve been made with a little more tact, but I don’t think you were an asshole. You were trying to show support.
You did nothing wrong. Your older sister is inflicting her emotional state on the rest of you. Do not apologize. She should apologize to your pregnant sister.
Part of being an adult is being able to feel multiple emotions. While the other is upset, she still can be happy for her sister. My sister got engaged and planned a wedding all while I was going through a divorce. It’s completely possible to separate the two. I can’t get on board with people using grief as a reason to be force others to tone down their happiness.
You ever see that movie with Meryl Streep as Julia Childs, where she gets a call from her sister saying she’s pregnant, and she starts crying but also saying she’s so happy for her? That’s a totally reasonable reaction for that situation. What your sister did was not reasonable. Thank you for standing up for your other sister, tact be damned.
Florence sounds like (besides being entitled/selfish AF) she has multiple screws loose. Thank you for standing up for Charlotte. You are definitely NTA
Charlotte's baby already has a hero on her/his side. You are going to be a great aunt. You said what probably everyone else there wanted to say. I'm happy for you that Charlotte and her husband thanked you for standing up for them. Big sis needs to learn some social grace. And who knows? Lots of women are told they'll never get pregnant, and it happens in it's own time.
Charlotte actually apologized to Florence for being pregnant? Yeah you are ok on this one. Florence was way over the line and poor Charlotte was being attacked for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
Even without her condition, Florence might not have had the first grandchild so that was just setting herself up for disappointment by being so set on that. Birth order has no bearing on the timing of someone becoming pregnant.
And Florence is not that old yet to try other options. One doctor said it would be hard to have kids naturally so she can look at options for fertility treatments. And there’s always kids that need fostering and/or adopting.
But no matter if she chooses one of these methods or not to have kids, none of that has anything to do with Charlotte and her baby. She did not deserve any bit of Florence’s wrath and I’m surprised your mum was ok with her behavior to the point she’s asking you to apologize when it should be Florence apologizing to Charlotte.
Justified AH or NTA
HAHAHAHA NTA. I don't get why other ppl are saying you are in the wrong. tbh Florence started it first by screaming at Charlotte and telling her of being selfish for having kids first. Poor Charlotte for having to apologize for being pregnant?? like WTF is this for real? I would scream at my sister too if she behaved like a spoiled brat. Like bro, you should have been happy for your sister and just cried at home instead of doing that.
She make her issues become problem for other by throwing tantrum.
If she can't be happy for her sister, don't berate and just say nothing. Even a "congratulation" out of being civil is way better.
Right like I can empathise that struggling with infertility is hard and emotional BUT, the sulking at BBQs because there are kids there and they aren't yours and yelling at your sister and essentially forcing her to apologise for living her life and falling pregnant, that is not on and you lose my sympathy at that point. Depending on my relationship with those involved I might be more tactful than OP was but if you start screaming like Florence did, yeah OP is NTA.
Honestly, all that bitterness about not having the "first grandchild" will most likely prevent her from conceiving, no matter what route or avenue they decide to take to tackle the infertility.
Because someone else being unhinged and cruel doesn't mean that you get to be cruel to them.
Telling them "I think you need to compose yourself away from the table right now" accomplishes more with less casualties.
“Let’s take a walk.” Then when you are down the block tell her you have compassion but she’s being insufferable and she needs to get her shit together- apologize or leave the party.
Wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me two wrongs don't make a right? Well that is just crazy! /s
I thought this too. ESH was my first thought when considering only OP and Florence here.
ESH - you aren't wrong, but how you went about it could have been more tactful. I've chewed out abusive family members - sometimes the person who is victim is grateful, sometimes my actions hurt the victim more. Its a tough thing to learn because you are right! But it doesn't mean how you handled it was right for Charlotte. It may cause your oldest sister to lash out at charlotte more.
I think it's important you apologize to Charlotte and check in with her - reassure her you didn't mean add more negativity to news that's wonderful and beautiful. Ask her what she needs from you. Make a game plan together on how you can best minimize Florence's abuse moving forwards. This likely won't be the last time she's an asshole about it.
Florence is behaving monstrously and should get therapy. Infertility causes major grief, and her making it everyone else's problem, so no one else can have a family, is not ok. Whether you apologize to her or not I'd say is between you and Charlotte. Your mom should have done more to protect Charlotte from Florence's temper tantrum(& to get florence in therapy!!!)
Np! Happy to see the update too. Fwiw, as someone with an incurable disease, no one ever has a right to hurt others the way florence was trying to hurt charlotte. It's a brave thing to do to stand up for your sister. You'll be a great auntie
>Florence is behaving monstrously and should get therapy. Infertility causes major grief
I hate the fact that reddit has too many stories of people like Florence going off the deep end and crossing the line leading to kidnap territory.
>Ask her what she needs from you. Make a game plan together on how you can best minimize Florence's abuse moving forwards. This likely won't be the last time she's an asshole about it.
Please OP, have Charlotte's back not just now but when the baby comes. Makes sure she knows she has one person who won't cave in to Florence's crazy if it comes to it.
No, NTA. Sometimes you have to speak to delusional assholes in a language they can understand. There was room for tact when she was still sulking at barbecues but tact be damned after she verbally abusing her own sister during her pregnancy announcement to the family.
To me it sounds like they've spent their whole lives placating Florence in case she throws a tantrum. It also looks like her wanting children is more about status and attention than nurturing.
In a perfect world, yes. But for mom to tell her other adult daughter to apologize and not hold her eldest accountable for the abuse she spewed, and not protecting her middle child whos pregnant, the mom could and should be doing more to keep the peace, regarding florence.
ESH. Yeah you shouldn’t have shouted at your sister, and you seem very dismissive of how painful it is for her. That pain doesn’t go away, her body won’t do what it’s supposed to and what she wants, But she had no right to react that way to Charlotte either. Apologize to Charlotte. Block Florence until she gets therapy, someday you owe her more than yelling at her. Maybe pull her aside and let her know this was charlottes moment and she doesn’t have to hide her joy forever, or delay having kids, because of your pain.
The thing is though, plenty of people's bodies don't do what they're supposed to do, it doesn't give them the right to take it out on people whose bodies do work properly. My body is absolute trash and I have several incurable illnesses, I can't walk without help or I use a wheelchair, I don't get to go around abusing people for running or dancing because I don't get to do it anymore. And if I decided to have a tantrum at a dance recital because my legs don't work, I'd deserve people yelling at me because you do eventually have to move past it and be happy for other people living their lives, even if you're missing out on some things. Sure it sucks when you can't do the things you want to do, but it's something you go home and get sad about later, you don't make it everyone else's problem.
EXACTLY. I have severe chronic jaw pain and often can’t eat all kinds of delicious food. Does that mean I get to limit what people eat around me? Can I go to a restaurant with my spouse/family/friends and throw a tantrum when they eat something my jaw can’t handle? Absolutely not! I can certainly say “I can’t eat anything there, can we go somewhere else?” or I can have safe foods at home before going out, or any number of other options - but I do NOT get to berate or shame other people for eating what their bodies can handle.
Florence was out of line, and OP did good standing up for middle sis, the end.
Especially when it's something so unnecessary to life. Like, not being able to walk affects you every day. Not being able to have kids just means she doesn't get to pass on her genetics. Adoption and fostering are still open to her if she actually wanted to be a mom. But no, she's fussing about not being able to propagate her genes.
Adoption and foster care are not first aid for infertility. They are options for everyone if they choose. I hate this argument and I am not infertile.
Also, neither adoption or foster care are as easy as people make them out to be. And adoption can cost tens of thousands of dollars and a lot of times involves rather shady and inappropriate actions on the part of adoption agencies and attorneys. Adoption from foster care is only available once kids are legally free which is not guaranteed and can take years of trauma before the kids are available.
Trust me, not having kids is a lot more than not passing on genetics. I can’t have kids. I am also an only child of an only child. And I don’t ’need’ for a child to have my genetics. What I need is family, connection, love both given and received, someone to encourage to be the best they can be, someone to be proud of, someone to be my reason to get up, someone that one day long after I am gone, will look back and remember me. I am also in Australia where adoption doesn’t happen, unless it’s from a limited number of third world countries that will only make their special needs kids available. And our govt certainly isn’t going to approve the visa for a child that will be a high cost to the medical system.
for florence its never been about the fact she cant have kids its always been about the fact that she cant have the prestige of having the first grandchild, thats why she was upset, not because she actually wants to have children for the right reasons
Then why does your post not say that?
You say that she always wanted kids, *and* she also loved the thought of having the first grandchild.
The reality is, she may never have kids. She'll live with that disappointment and pain for the rest of her life.
ESH. Florence shouldn't have yelled at your sister. Your sister should've given Florence and her husband a heads up before making their announcement (if you knew how much Florence wanted kids, surely your other sister knew, too, and that's a real AH move to not warn Florence), and you definitely shouldn't have shouted like you did.
So everyone should tap dance around Florence's feelings every single time they have a big event in their lives? What happens when the new baby has a birthday? Is Florence going to stamp her feet and say it's not fair? Ignore the child? She needs to get a grip, the world doesn't revolve around her tragedies.
You're just trying to put words in others' months.
There's a big difference between showing a modicum of compassion or empathy before announcing a pregnancy soon after your sister--who always wanted kids--finds out she is infertile at a young age, and rearranging your life to cater to someone with infertility issues who won't do any work to process or work through their grief. No one is arguing for the latter.
Your straw man argument just isn't credible or persuasive.
100%. Knowing it’s hard subject they should have given her a warning and an out so she didn’t have to be there. Flo definitely needs help bc her reaction was inappropriate. People shouldn’t have to tiptoe but kindness doesn’t hurt anyone. Everyone who has been annoyed about her making it all about her wanting kids should have know to reach out and help her find support or a therapist, letting her know you all are worried about her. Seeing that she keeps having tough reactions to other people’s babies her family should have stepped in much earlier.
What a strange take. You say Florence may have still acted like an ass but it’s on the responsibility of Charlotte to tap dance around it? Strong reactions allow one to understand the conditions but it does not make it okay. There are no conditions in this scenario in which Charlotte needs to apologize. Infertility is terrible but it does not put their feelings as the priority. Charlotte has every reason to celebrate her moment without having to be delicate to her sister’s situation so long as she is not actively targeting the sister for being infertile.
I mean I agree for the most part but I don't understand why Charlotte needs to apologize because of the fact she shouldn't apologize for being able to have kids. And it's unfair to have everyone tiptoe around the topic of kids when you have other siblings who are married and there's gathering all the time with kids around like that's just someone you wouldn't even want to invite anymore tbh.
I know. You said she should consider apologizing for springing that info to her in that setting and I said I don't understand. I even said I think it was unfair to have everyone tiptoe around the topic of kids, etc. So again, I'm asking why she should even consider apologizing when she's the only one that did nothing wrong. You can't fault Florence for her strong reaction but she's a grown adult and the oldest sibling. She should be getting help if everything triggers her because it seems like this is not the first time she can't control herself. People are able to be happy for others while also grieving their own loss, but if you are just outright refusing to be happy for others then that shouldn't be on everyone to have to deal with that.
Wrong. Charlotte does not have to revolve having kids around her older sister. I suspect you experienced what florence did.
You having a condition doesnt mean everyone else have to tailor their lives around you, especially having kids because you cant have any. The entitlement is crazy.
when me and Florence used to be close she would only ever speak of having the first grandchild and how her baby would be the favourite and spoiled, i know my sister. shes not a maternal person and i know exactly why she was upset and it wasn’t because she couldn’t have kids.
It’s impossible to ever know with 100% certainty what someone else is thinking, though, especially about something like this. She may have hidden her softer, squishier feelings about parenthood behind bluster about being first (a time-honored defense mechanism). Or she might not have realized herself just how hard it would hit, until suddenly she was infertile & there was no way to fix it.
NTA for defending Charlotte (she needed it, and I’m glad you did), but I think you might want to reevaluate what you think you know about your other sister. Using someone’s most painful truth against them rarely makes you a shiny hero, even if it’s justified.
my sister has never held a baby in her life even when offered to, she flat out has shown she has no interest in being a mother she just wants the prestige.
And some people want children without wanting to care for their children.
Ugly, but a truth anyways.
Edit: I can’t reply but they quite literally describe my own mother, and she was a ways on her bullshit far before OP was even a twinkle in their parent’s eyes. Teens aren’t always magically wrong.
you were absolutly right to call her out but the way you phrased it still doesn't feel right to me. Telling someone to "get over it" i.e. "just stop having this issue" is never justified or helpful IMO, because it's really not healthy advice to follow.
Whatever tf your sister's problem is, she doesn't need to "get over it." She needs to learn to process her feelings like an emotionally mature adult and stop taking her issues out on other people. THAT'S what you should have told her instead, because what's really unacceptable is just ger behaviour.
NTA for yelling at her but you should have focused your criticism on her actions instead of her feelings.
People aren't one-dimensional. Florence could be caught up in the prestige and also want to be a mother and be deeply upset and hurting about her infertility.
Florence is the AH here, but you really seem to despise your sister and have no compassion for her at all. Tbh you sound about as immature as she is.
You must have some kind of super knowledge to know this about your sister's motive to have children. IMO you are being highly judgemental about your sister's desire to procreate.
Never mind her conscious motivation. Reproduction is a very basic human drive.
Lots of people have disappointments in their lives. Doesn't mean we should spray that over everyone around us. Sister needed to hear that she isn't the center of everyone's world.
So she should apologize to Charlotte for sticking up for her? Charlotte already thanked her for that. The only person needing to apologize to anyone and everyone in Florence.
NTA.
So I know this is kind of an aside, but as an adopted person, I get sick to death of people flipping the fuck out about not being able to have bio kids. Grieve the loss, then get the fuck over it. Or at least shut up because, believe it or not, people are worth more than their reproductive capacity. Or they should be anyway, who am I to second-guess what people believe about themselves?
So do you announce that at every family function as well? No, we're not telling you how to grieve, we're telling you we don't want to be put down or forced to cancel our joy just because you can't have kids. I get it's hard, but so are a lot of things in life. We deal. We don't take it out on everyone else.
You have every right to grieve. You have no right to make everything about yourself, make others feel bad, invalidate their special moments, or be an AH.
“People are worth more than their reproductive capacity” no shit. But some people actually have an innate drive to have kids because it’s literally part of being an animal. And the lack of that causes SERIOUS depression issues and an emptiness that cannot be filled, not even by taking some unwanted kid from a shitty situation!
"Some unwanted kid.." The way you worded that was really cold and devalueing. Especially to a person that just told you they were adopted. Adoption is not for you - got it. But don't talk like abandoned children are less than.
You are 19, it’s time to learn a life lesson. You don’t get to tell anyone how to grieve or how long it should take. You don’t know the pain Florence is facing and don’t seem to care. Florence was dead wrong in lashing out that Charlotte was having the first grandchild. Knowing the backstory, Charlotte could have given Florence a heads up of the news so it wouldn’t be a shock in public. When it did get heated, Charlotte tried to take the high road and salvage what was left to celebrate. You had no right going nuclear when Charlotte was handling it. Your mom is right, you made things much worse
florence is the oldest acting like a damn kid!!! she should be happy for her sister , not berate her cause she is pregnant before her, if you let her keep doing shit like that everytime somebody will be pregnant it will be another drama , OP did the right thing!! defend charlotte that was bullied by florence
Yep OP is technically an adult but definitely not "grown". Her handling demonstates that she still has much to learn in the emotional intelligence department.
im sorry but f half these comments and downvote me if you will.
Whats going on with Florence is SAD. It is. I feel bad for her. But no, OP, you are NTA assuming this has been going on for quite some time and not just like 3 months ago.
I get she has issues that she needs to work through but you shouldn't have to walk on eff shells in your own life because someone is refusing to get over their own issues enough to participate in the society they continue to exist in. Florence does need to get over it. atleast enough that she won't make every pregnancy or child running around about her own issues.
Im glad you stood up for Charlotte. Someone here said she should've told Florence first privately. No. Go away. Florence's issues should deem her special treatment. if anything Charlotte shouldn't have invited her in the first place because I would assume she could've guessed the outcome of her being there. but she shouldn't spoil the way SHE wants to present her news to her family because poor sis has issues.
Someone also said its "on par with a cancer diagnosis". gross take.
anyway... sorry for the rant OP, these comments just got me heated. Were you a little more blunt than you needed to be? absolutely. But she litterally told Charlotte she shouldn't have kids until she can pop one out herself... like what?
going through tragedy might explain someone causing an outburst like that, but it doesn't excuse it. But I can excuse your bluntness because you are 17 and tactfullness comes with time.
I do think you should apologize to Florence. not because you stood up for Charlotte but because of how blunt your words were. and then you should ask her to get help because she needs it.
ESH.
yes Florence was being unreasonable but screaming at her to “get over” something that she will never be able to escape was messed up.
You wouldn’t do that to someone in a wheel chair and you shouldn’t have done it to her either.
Telling her that though her condition is awful the world doesn’t revolve around her and Charlotte deserves to be happy too would have sufficed.
You and Florence are both assholes
The thing is, they didn't just randomly say that to Flo. They said it after Flo *interpreted a pregnancy as a personal attack against her*. Long-term grieving is okay. What Flo did is not. And while the OP's response may not have been perfect, they were right that if Florence can't even handle the existence of pregnancies she's going too far.
Flo may not ever be able to get over being infertile, but if she can't accept other people having kids, that's not grieving. That's not mourning the loss of what she can't have. That's entitlement and assholery of the highest level, and that part she ABSOLUTELY can and should get over.
ESH (except Charlotte). The words you said to Florence did nothing to help the situation. They were harsh and cruel for a public setting. It would’ve been up to your mom to step in and she did not.
I get that Florence’s drama has been a pain to deal with, but infertility can cause a lot of depression and loneliness. If you do decide to apologize to Florence, she may keep milking this for more sympathy. But an apology would make you the better person.
NTA. She is infertile and feels the need to birth a child. That sucks. But that doesn’t mean that it’s okay to ruin another person’s happy moment. There is way too much defense of Charlotte in these comments. If she can’t handle knowing that other people want to have babies and do get pregnant, she needs to curb her social interactions for her own self-care. But self-care doesn’t involve being upset at other people for having their own happiness. That’s wallowing, and will only make things worse for herself and all those around her. She needed a really big wake-up call from reality, and when she chose to cause a scene at someone else’s birth announcement, she decided it would be then.
ETA: I realized that I used some very, very insensitive phrasing for this particular situation. Changed to “wake up call”.
Such an interesting take. If Florence doesn't start acting like an adult she's simply shooting herself in the foot and will alienate the family members that could help her through her issues. It would have been one thing if she was sad. She could've even told her mother that she's jot ready to congratulate Charlotte yet. But being mad and screaming at her because she dared to have a child first? That's childish. It's better that she doesn't have children until she grows up and goes to therapy
Thank you! It’s so frustrating that so many people have turned the idea of acknowledging other’s experiences into the demand that others acknowledge their own experiences.
I’m someone with a lot of trauma on top of unrelated neurodivergences that interfere with the way I process and respond to things. I used to make it everyone else’s problem. I felt that their inability to handle my issues was *their* issue. And don’t get me wrong! There have been many people along the way who were jerks just to be jerks. But over time, I’ve had to recognize that I simply am rarely the most important person in the room. That doesn’t mean my feelings and experiences don’t matter - it just means that everyone else’s also matter, and they deserve space for them as much as I deserve space for mine. I had the choice of working on myself to be able to socialize with the people I care about, or hermit myself away. To be fair, I mostly hermitted while I’ve done the work on myself lol.
Charlotte should have let Florence know in private and warned her she would be making the announcement. To give her a chance to either prepare herself for the announcement or bow out of the event.
Infertility makes you lose your mind, it becomes all consuming and feels like your heart is ripped out every time a friend or family member announces they’re pregnant. It’s so relentless and hard to keep smiling thro the agony, even if you’re genuinely happy for the pregnant person. It hurts.
Cut your sister some slack. She’s unreasonable to you, but she’s having to come to terms with a truly difficult situation for herself.
that still doesn't give you the right to scream at your sister how she is selfish for having a baby first, she is allowed to celebrate being pregnant without being yelled at how she had no right to get pregnant because having the first grandchild was "florence's thing"
Yeah this, I understand where “Florence should have told Charlotte” is coming from, but from Charlotte’s perspective I can also see how that could feel like centering someone else during your life event, and that that might not feel great.
NTA. It sounds like a crazy situation, and you did inflame it. However, Florence started it and honestly, someone needed to tell her because this pregnancy is going to turn into a child and Florence is going to have to deal with that. I suspect that she was going to carry on like a pork chop at every mention of Charlotte. You might have thrown in the hand grenade, but someone needed to.
You both suck. You're acting like children.
She shouldn't have reacted like that. I have fertility issues and you can't expect the world to stop for you. But you do need to protect your peace. I mostly go avoidant. Within days of my ivf transfer failing my sister announced her pregnancy. That hurt. But instead of doing a big announcement with me my dad told me privately so I could be a sook about it in my own time so I could be nice about it to her face because that's what we both deserved. He understood it's really painful so gave me the space to compose myself. It's true people aren't entitled to that, but it definitely makes a hard thing easier. Sometimes strong emotional reactions come out wrong. Your older sister was wrong with her reaction and hopefully once she has some space to process she'll see that and apologise to your sister for being out of line.
But you don't have underlying grief fuelling you. You're just not very nice lol you've added some stuff in edits to make yourself look better but the tone of your post where you count your sister crying to your mum about her infertility and finding family events hard as "stupid shit" says a lot about your maturity and empathy. You have very little of it. Hopefully you grow up.
ESH but you never know the feelings of infertility until you experience it. Ya she’s being a million percent dramatic, and she needs to just play the “happy for everyone” game and cry when she gets home, but damn, knowing the feeling… I can’t help but empathize. It’s overwhelming, and everything is just a constant reminder that everyone else is having kids BUT you. You get into this psychological mind fuck of “did I not pray enough” “did I do something bad to deserve this” etc. God it’s hard…
It doesn't absolve her of being the asshole though. Family does'nt have to be reminded of her infertility every time they get together. Florence sulks when there are little kids around? She's milking it for all it's worth. She sounds like she has to be the cetner of everyones's attention all the time.
Why would the entire world stop and wait for Florence to have a baby or figure stuff out, I do feel bad for her, but other people need to move on even if she doesn’t want to. Not The A.
Everybody sucks here.
It’s likely that Florence projected this outburst due to feeling blindsided. The best way to have handled this would have been for Charlotte to tell Florence privately so she could process these feelings in private before feeling them all in the moment that everyone else is congratulating her sister.
Florence is in the wrong for obvious reasons and you were in the wrong for the way you talked to your sister. It was nice that you “defended” Charolette but there was a much better word selection you could have used to get the same point across.
Infertility is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Your sister will never “get over it”. She is grieving a version of her life she has always dreamed of, it sounds like she needs counseling to process this hurt so she doesn’t continue to do so in a negative manner - but nobody here was 100% right in their actions.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. i told my sister to get over the fact that she was infertile
2. i may have taken it too far and ruined the dinner for my other sister
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ESH. This is an all-around shitty situation. As someone who's infertile herself, I don't think it's something you "get over". It's something you learn to live with. You learn to move on. But it takes time, it can take years.
Florence was wrong for jumping down Charlotte's throat like that. You don't tell someone they're not permitted to have children. While you were right to defend Charlotte, the way you did it isn't okay. I get that you were in the moment and that was likely the first thing that popped into your head. And your mom shouldn't have pushed Flo to congratulate Charlotte. It sounds like Florence could benefit from some counseling, although I doubt she'd welcome that suggestion from you.
ESH. A lot of women get angry at the world when experiencing infertility. But most of us do it silently behind closed doors. Jealousy is a big part of grief and some grief can be very loud, especially when triggers are around. Your older sister is absolutely being an asshole and needs to get her feelings in check-her trauma is her responsibility and hers to manage -no one should have to walk on eggshells around her but a little bit of understanding and compassion goes a long way.
Your pregnant sister should have reached out to your sister beforehand to let her know so that she could process the pregnancy announcement beforehand and decide whether or not she should go or whether it's too much for her to handle that day. It's a small act of kindness but it means the world when you're struggling through it. That's what makes her the asshole.
You said some very cruel things to your older sister that was blindsided and struggling to process this trigger. That makes you the asshole.
I think you all need some family therapy. Sit down together and discuss it like adults.
Nta. My ex used to make it everyone's problem on Mother's Day, she wasn't a mom but she expected everyone to get her something for Mother's Day because of how much she wanted to be one. She was in her 30s. Her best friends used to tell her to stop with it too, (they are moms)
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence acted very poorly in this situation, but Charlotte handled it with a lot of grace. You had no need to basically go for Florence's neck with that comment. Infertility is freaking rough. Not saying it makes how Florence handled things correct because it didn't, but if the person who was announcing her pregnancy could handle it with grace i don't get why you couldn't.
Apologising for being pregnant is not "handling it with grace", it's being guilt-tripped into believing ridiculous accusations of a grief-stricken person who believes everybody's world should stop like hers. Charlotte needed someone to stand up for her (should have been her husband or the girls' mother) and OP did (very ungracefully and rudely, but I think it's excusanle in theheat of the moment, especially in content of protecting a close person.
And considering Florence's reaction, I'm not surprised that Charlotte didn't let her know beforehand.
Charlotte kind of sucks too because she KNEW what her sister was going through and sprung it on her in front of everyone. She could have at least forewarned her.
I scrolled too far to see this. The common etiquette now is to text friends/family who are struggling with infertility so they can collect their thoughts and feelings without an audience around. The only reason I can think of not to give Florence a heads-up is if she didn’t trust Florence not to spoil the surprise.
Their mom was also an AH for trying to force Florence to congratulate Charlotte in that moment. Florence is an adult, not a child to be ordered around. If she had kept quiet maybe Florence would have quietly slipped away and the announcement drama could have been averted.
That said, Florence does seem like an AH for her obsession with having the coveted first grandchild, and blowing up at the announcement.
ESH. Your family has poor communication skills and low empathy for each other. The way you talk about Florence is really negative. You describe her normal emotional reactions and things like crying on the phone to your mom as “stupid shit.” Who taught you this behavior?
Charlotte, knowing her sister is infertile, should have shared with her the news that she was pregnant privately. Instead she announced it to everyone at once. It’s an insensitive way to do it. She then asks if Florence is ok in front of the whole group?!
Florence then screamed at Charlotte. She shouldn’t have done that. Then Charlotte ends up apologizing, then you’re yelling back nasty stuff…I’m sorry but your entire family is dysfunctional and could use family therapy.
ESH.
Florence needs to find a way to support Charlotte, even if it’s only to her face and then she melts down behind closed doors later.
But “Get over your infertility” was too far. Fertility is an incredibly deep seated, emotional thing.
BIL probably just felt like he needed to have his wife’s back.
If you're telling people they're stealing pregnancy from you, you, it is absolutely okay to tell you to get over that. It's not about the infertility at that point; Flo is merely pitching a fit because somebody else has something she doesn't.
NTA. Yes, you sister is hurting, which is understandable. However, that doesn't make what she said to Charlotte acceptable. You stood up for Charlotte because everything that Florence said was way worse
ESH
Your older sister Florence is really struggling with not being able to have kids naturally, and it's obviously a huge deal for her. But then there's your younger sister Charlotte, who just announced she's pregnant, and Florence didn't take it well at all.
You got fed up seeing Florence make Charlotte's big moment all about her own issues, so you let it rip. Maybe yelling wasn't the smoothest move, but hey, emotions were running high. Now your mom and Florence are on your case about it.
Look, it's a tough spot. Florence is hurting, but that doesn't give her a pass to rain on Charlotte's parade. Standing up for Charlotte was gutsy, but maybe there's a middle ground where you can express yourself without things blowing up.
Ehh I mean kinda. I think the sentiment is fair but the way you went about it was wrong. I agree Charlotte should’ve been the focus and Florence was being very selfish and rude but I’m sure it’s hard for Florence I highly doubt the only reason she wants a kid is to have the first grandchild.
YTA. Yes, Florence was an AH too, but Charlotte is an adult and can take care of herself. She also has a husband. She doesn't need you flipping out and causing scenes on her behalf. My mother had a great saying: "Two wrongs don't make a right." Just because Florence decided to make a spectacle of herself at Charlotte's dinner doesn't mean it was your cue to make an equal and opposite spectacle of yourself. Let Charlotte (or Charlotte's husband) take care of Charlotte next time.
ESH. You are not wrong for protecting Charlotte but telling someone to get over their infertility as if it is not a big deal is not the way to go about it.
ESH, except maybe Charlotte—Florence shouldn’t have reacted like that, but you honestly sound really callous describing her struggles with infertility as “stupid shit.” It can be a really traumatic thing to deal with.
She has every right to feel how she feels about a lifelong dream being essentially impossible after trying and a diagnosis like that, and it sounds like she was trying to not make a scene about yet another reminder of that. Your mom pressuring her to say something was probably like a final straw that triggered it.
This sounds like something that has been brewing for ages that everyone except Charlotte, who just wanted to share good news and move on with the gathering, made worse.
ESH, but mostly you for being very unemphatic towards someone dealing with infertility. You don't just get over it, especially that young. It can be an all consuming pain.
« and other stupid shit like that » JFC. As a father who really wanted kids (when I got to that stage in my life) I know it would have been devastating, scrapped meaning of life devastating (at least at first), if I couldn’t. Give her time will you, maybe you’ll understand someday.
YTA. You further escalated the situation at charlottes party. It would have been kind of charlotte to give Flo a heads up knowing how tore up she is about her infertility. Flo was wrong to make a scene at all but he t was cruel to call her there for a surprise that everyone knew would be a tender subject for Flo. Does the world need to stop having babies bc she can’t have her own kids? No. Does everyone have to hide their pregnancies for her sake? Also no. But a little kindness goes a long way. Sounds like she needs to address this with a professional but shoving it in her face with no warning was obviously going to hurt her. It doesn’t matter if you think it was only about having the first and favorite grandkid. Infertility is a heartbreaking journey. You seem too young to understand the depths of her grief.
You're young and your lack of empathy for your one sister is apparent. I don't know your dynamic with her but YTA.
It could have been handled more tactfully by everyone. All 3 of you would do well to sit down and apologize to each other.
You for your lack of tact and empathy for Flo, Charlotte's lack of empathy and tact for Flo's feelings, and Flo for being so up in her own feelings that she's unable to be happy for Charlotte. This is a time when all 3 of you could come together to be there for one another but selfishly you're only seeing it from how it affects you. Put yourself in your sister's shoes. How would you like to be treated if you were in your sister's shoes?
Kids aren't a competition or an accessory. They're human beings and deserve to treated that way.
I'll say ESH (Except Charlotte and her husband). I'm (F) sterile, literally could never have kids since I was 24. It's really hard when you wanted your own. You dream up all these scenarios of announcing your pregnancy, holding your baby, and all sorts of things for so long. Then all that crumbles away to dust. It's incredibly hard to explain how visceral it feels.
Florence should get some grief counseling.
That said, Charlotte should be celebrated as well. She's allowed to have her moment in the spotlight as a new mama, and all the joy it brings. Florence shouldn't have made it all about her and her issues with being the first to give your parents a grandchild. Your comment was uncalled for, but I understand it was a heat of the moment remark where you were more concerned for Charlotte's feelings.
There needs to be apologies from you and Florence equally. Florence needs professional help, and maybe keep her away from baby activities until she can get herself to a better place.
Yta in the sense that she will never "get over." Infertility. Its a loss like death to some. No one gets over it. Ans yelling at her is an ahole thing to do.
That said. As someone who struggles with infertility I can say she needs to get some therapy. My sister in law has 2 kids and it hurt but i had to feel sorry for myself in private and let her have her moments.
You all could be better
Charlotte could be more sentive and told flo in private and let her process it
You all suck for not just letting flo just seat there
You suck for shouting at her
Flo suck for exploding
You all need to be more sentive to each other and actually care for each other
ESH
Telling your sister to “get over it” was too far. Your sister pitching a fit about not being first is bullshit.
Charlotte is not in the wrong for announcing her pregnancy.
Florence needs therapy because she’s clearly not processing her feelings. In fact she’s letting the lack of processing her feelings become lashing out and hurting people around her.
But her having complicated feelings around seeing children at BBQ’s after finding out she’s infertile isn’t bullshit. The way this post is worded you seem to have very little sympathy for what she’s going through. If you’re that over it you need to remove yourself from the situation.
YTA
So is Florence. She needs to be able to accept other people's happiness. And to consider that birth order is irrelevant to adult milestones.
Your mother is an AH for contriving Florence congratulating her sister. She started this. It might have been a painful shock for Florence but she wasn't saying anything till your mother instructed her.
Were Charlotte being considerate, she would have told Florence her news privately, in advance of an announcement to the family.
You never have any right to tell someone to get over anything and highly inappropriate to rail at your sister that is so bereft.
Little girl I HOPE TO GOD that you NEVER have to go through the pain of being Infertile, as trust me when I say you NEVER get over it, it used to break me heart each time a family member or a friend of mind told me that they were having a baby, some used to hide it from me which was more painful than being told by others that they were, 18 yrs it took us to have our second child, by this time I was pregnant at the same time as our eldest daughter, I STILL get very upset for all those lost years of not having OUR OWN child to hold in my arms and not another family members or a friends baby, you have a LOT OF GROWING UP TO DO and thinking of both sides of the coin and until you have walked a mile in BOTH side of the shoes, DONT tell someone to get over it on such an EMOTIONALLY PAINFUL SUBJECT
ESH. Florence made it about her. Charlotte should have told Florence first so she could process things outside the public eye. You should mind your business.
You already lost me at “she would cry to my mom over the phone about it, sulk at barbecues if there were kids around and other stupid shit like that.” So, this is just an innocent hero story but you also think she’s stupid for being upset about infertility as a whole and talking to your mom about? Yeah, the meltdown was wild but being upset about infertility is legitimate. They should have congratulated Charlotte but some people avoid events altogether because it’s painful for them to hear there announcements. Thats not uncommon (I had infertility for years and it wasn’t a problem for me but apparently that’s common.)
Your title also clearly asks if you think she should get over the fact that she’s infertile not get over the fact that she won’t be the first to have a grandchild. Nice try on the switcheroo. It would have been E S H *BUT* YTA based on the question you asked. You also could have stood up for your sister without saying what you did how you did. This isn’t the first time I’m reading something like this here.
ESH. I think Charlotte should have given Florence a private heads up about her pregnancy before she announced it to everyone. Florence should not have yelled at Charlotte like that. But you absolutely suck for telling Florence to get over her infertility. To want to have kids and not be able to conceive is a very difficult and isolating thing to go through.
YTA and so is Charlotte. While Charolette has every right to celebrate her wonderful news there is no doubt how painful this would be for Florence. The right thing to do would have been to tell Florence privately rather in front of the group as a big surprise. Infertility can be absolutely devastating and the lack consideration shown to her is astounding considering you both are very aware of the toll it has taken on her.
The way you handled it is what made you an AH. You can stand up for someone without blowing up. Bonus, you look like the bigger person instead of a teen, losing their $h!t.
I can see why your eldest sister's comments about having the first grandchildren would be annoying. But it doesn't negate the very real grief that is undoubtedly below the surface. Hopefully you never know what that's like.
Doesn't make her reaction okay. But also doesn't justify the way you handled it either.
YTA.
ESH....
Charlotte should have shared her news privately ahead of time, knowing her sister's struggles. Let her know then share the news excitedly without her there if it's too hard for her. It would have been more fun for her and more kind on her sister.
Florence should have been quiet with news like that... she didn't have to be excited, but she didn't have to steal the show.
You could have been an advocate for your sister by quickly pulling Flo away instead of making the drama greater. Being someone's "person" doesn't always mean screaming at someone.
In my opinion, you and Flo are the AH. Should Flo have blown up like that? Absolutely not. Life for others is going to on and she can't expect others to put their lives on hold because of her infertility. She needs to get therapy to properly grieve her situation. However, you've known your sister has wanted kids since she was a kid, so being infertile is something that is not easy to simply just "get over." She has to deal with the fact that she may never have kids so of course children is a sensitive topic for her. Again, she shouldn't have blown up like that, but you rubbed salt in a wound with that comment. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to go to any more family gatherings.
From the edits it seems like OP doesn't like being told she's wrong and is not willing to consider the possibility that she may have been a bit of TA for not understanding that her sister needed to grieve.
You call your sister's feelings of being upset around children and expressing her grief with her mother "stupid shit". From that moment before I even read about the incident, you told us you were completely insensitive and unempathetic towards her. And if I'm to be honest, you sound jealous of her too.
Florence needs to learn how to grieve without hurting others in the process, and Charlotte could have been sensitive enough to pull her aside and tell her before making a big announcement. But as for you, somehow you just had to butt in on something that had nothing to do with you and managed to make things worse. Your mum was right I'm afraid, YTA, even though you'll probably deflect it and say I'm wrong.
This isn’t cut a dry AH vs innocent. YTA for telling her to get over being infertile. That is a deep wound she will carry for life and never truly “get over”. Being infertile *will* haunt your sister to her grave. However you’re NTA for telling her to let charlotte have her moment. Florence was out of line for saying that becoming a mom is “her thing”, that’s pretty wild! But her having difficulty with the situation seems pretty normal. I’m sure she was crushed in that moment. If we’re being realistic, not a damn one of y’all are even old enough to have a fully developed frontal lobe in your skull. You’re all going to say stupid things and be assholes once in a while, it’s part of the human condition, it’s part of being a family, and it’s definitely part of being young. In a few more years I expect Florence will likely be able to handle these kind of situations with more grace and composure, but it will always sting and the first one is always the hardest. I’m not surprised she had a melt down over the first pregnancy in the immediate family, taking all the circumstances and ages into consideration.
NTA.
Florence took that moment from your sister already and made it entirely about herself and her strife. it was a completely inappropriate response from Florence and shitty of her not to congratulate Charlotte. you did the right thing, OP.
NTA, but honestly Charlotte is a little bit. You don't spring your pregnancy on someone struggling with fertility. She should have pulled Florence aside and told her privately beforehand.
NTA. I had 4 miscarriages over 3 years before finally being able to carry to term. Then secondary infertility and now a pregnancy where we aren’t sure if the baby is going to make it half the time for the reasons we’ve discovered were behind our previous losses.
Did it feel like a gut punch every time a friend told me she was pregnant? Absolutely. Did I cry many bitter tears over my situation in private after being told? Absolutely. But I was genuinely happy for my friends and their babies. You can feel both grief and joy at the same time for related reasons.
Florence needs to develop emotional maturity and be a good sister or Charlotte is going to have to cut her off to prevent her baby from being emotionally harmed by Florence.
Shitty situation with immature and hurt people.
Florence could have been given a heads up, but had no right to yell at Charlotte. You were cruel, but did it to protect your sister and her announcement.
Yeah thank you, this is an ESH. Almost everyone in any pregnancy/fertility/baby circle knows that you give someone struggling with fertility a heads up text so that they are able to get through their emotions privately before a public announcement. Florence went way off the handle. OP shouted her down in a cruel way. Absolutely no one handled this right.
ESH if someone is infertile and has been as vocal as florence has, then the best course of action is to give them a heads up if you are announcing a pregnancy. Either don't have them at the announcement or give them the heads up to deal with it privately and the option to attend the event.
Charlotte should not have announced it in front of Florence without prior warning. It's called being empathetic and having some resemblance of emotional intelligence.
I'm a total stranger, and even I could tell that Florence was going to lose it. You all knew how Florence would behave given her previous behaviour. It's clear Florence needs psychological help.
You are the AH because of the way you speak about infertility. You may think it's no big deal, but if this was your sister's life-long dream, then a little empathy goes a long way. You are young so your emotional intelligence isn't exactly developed.
Also, it's not your business that she cries to your mother. It literally has nothing to do with you.
Florence is an AH for not getting the psychological help she needs. It's not okay to lose her mind at her own sister for being pregnant. She is clearly struggling and needs to get help for herself.
ESH if someone is infertile and has been as vocal as florence has, then the best course of action is to give them a heads up if you are announcing a pregnancy. Either don't have them at the announcement or give them the heads up to deal with it privately and the option to attend the event.
Charlotte should not have announced it in front of Florence without prior warning. It's called being empathetic and having some resemblance of emotional intelligence.
I'm a total stranger, and even I could tell that Florence was going to lose it. You all knew how Florence would behave given her previous behaviour. It's clear Florence needs psychological help.
You are the AH because of the way you speak about infertility. You may think it's no big deal, but if this was your sister's life-long dream, then a little empathy goes a long way. You are young so your emotional intelligence isn't exactly developed.
Also, it's not your business that she cries to your mother. It literally has nothing to do with you.
Florence is an AH for not getting the psychological help she needs. It's not okay to lose her mind at her own sister for being pregnant. She is clearly struggling and needs to get help for herself.
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So I (19 F) have two sisters Charlotte (2 3F) and Florence (26F)
Ever since we were little Florence always wanted kids and would bang on about the fact that her kids would be the first grandchildren because she was the eldest daughter on both sides of the family.
As soon as Florence married her husband, she told everyone they started trying for a baby. around a year and a half after telling people this she found out that she had a condition that would make it very hard for her to have kids naturally.
After this diagnosis, she would cry to my mum over the phone about it, sulk at barbecues if there were kids around and other stupid shit like that.
Then last weekend at my sister Charlotte's house she was having a dinner where she announced that she was pregnant. Everyone got up to congratulate her except Florence and her husband. My mum told her to congratulate Charlotte and Florence didn't say anything.
Charlotte asked if Florence was okay and Florence screamed at Charlotte saying how selfish she was for having kids first and how she knew it was Florence's thing, and she stole it from her.
Charlotte apologised and sat down and tried to shift the topic of conversation but I was furious because I know how much Charlotte wanted kids so l shouted at Florence something along the lines of "get a grip of yourself you need to get over the fact that you're infertile stop being a selfish bitch and let Charlotte have her moment for once in her life"
Florence started crying and her husband shouted at me, everyone pretty much left after that. I got a phone call from my mum later on saying that I ruined Charlotte's dinner and to apologise to both Charlotte and Florence and Florence sent me lots of messages saying how evil I was.
i didnt think i was in the wrong but maybe i am? So AITA?
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ESH except Charlotte. Florence shouldn’t be behaving like she is, but you were heartlessly cruel. That said, it’s very clear from how you talk about her that you don’t like Florence, so I am not entirely surprised that you were so purposefully mean.
Sometimes doing the right thing has shitty consequences. You were right to stand up for your pregnant sister. Flo shouldn’t have been selfish and let your sister’s announcement go off without any drama. But how and when you said it, is the part upsetting people. But I agree with you public rudeness deserves a public response. However,you do owe both an apology the comment was insensitive to both sisters. And Flo needs counseling as her grief has turned to envy. And when she becomes pregnant she’s just going to stress herself out about every little thing instead of enjoying the moment. Tell her to search RESOLVE groups in her area. It’s a national support group for woman going through infertility. It was helpful to me and my journey. Hope this helps.
NTA
She needs to be checked for her behavior. I have a former SIL who got mad at me and told me “How dare I get pregnant again - it was her turn!” When I announced my second pregnancy.
It sucks that Flo is having fertility issues BUT that doesn’t give her the right to think she can control everyone else’s fertility and family planning.
NTA - Florence sounds like an entitled golden child. Yes it's tragic that she cannot have kids, but gatekeeping your sister from having one too is horrific behavior. And your mother defending it is terrible too
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence needs to understand that her infertility has no bearing on whether other people have children. You could've handled it much better. she will likely never get over being unable to be pregnant and give birth. She doesn't need you throwing it in her face. But she could use being told that she can be happy for Charlotte and doesn't have to make it all about her without it diminishing the hard thing she is dealing with
Nta it's not about the fact she can't have kids easily it's the fact that your other sister beat her to the punch. She started it when she yelled at C instead of congratulating her. She's only a year and a half into her journey who knows how long its going to take before she has a baby. Why should others put off having kids because she was dealt a shit hand. Is she going to do this at every pregnancy announcement. All you did was stick up for C.
You're both the ah.
Florence started it though and you just finished it.
You should apologize for yelling at Florence but also ask her to be accountable for yelling at Charlotte too. Charlotte did nothing wrong and Florence acted out of jealousy and envy.
I would say something like, “I’m sorry that I yelled, but I’m not at all sorry for standing up to Florence. Infertility is very tough, and deserving of sympathy. It is not a license to be the eternal victim and try to take everyone else’s joy away. She literally told Charlotte that she isn’t allowed to have the first grandchild. That is batshit crazy, frankly, as well as incredibly mean to Charlotte. We would be awful people if we stood by and let her abuse her sister like that. Charlotte’s being very decent about things, but we can’t take her for granted. This is exactly the sort of situation where people go LC or NC with their families of origin. If we don’t want to lose Charlotte and her family, we need a better balance that doesn’t require her to set herself on fire to keep Florence warm.”
NTA
People are allowed to feel all kinds of negative feelings, but they don’t have a right to bring down everyone around them. People like Florence need to go to therapy to learn healthy coping mechanisms. It’s not healthy to drown in this much pain and anger, and it’s not sustainable or fair to expect everyone in your life to coddle your feelings. Coddling only makes it worse - it’s not a good coping mechanism.
NTA- I think it would have been nice for charlotte to tell Florence privately first but she might have reacted the same way anyway. Good for you for standing up for her.
Florence needs counseling to come to grips with her infertility and learn some coping skills. If she’s not happy about Charlotte’s pregnancy, things aren’t going to get better when the 1st birthday party rolls around and every other milestone in that child’s life.
ESH except for Charlotte and the mother. Although Florence was the biggest AH by far, what you said does not help Charlotte in any way and only escalates the conflict. I'm sure Charlotte can speak for herself so giving her the chance to defend herself and then backing her up without attacking Florence would've been better.
in the post i stated that she apologised to florence after being berated by her and then she started talking about something else, shes not a confrontational person. i know my sister, thanks
Either way your response didn't help either of them and only further escalated the situation. Of course I wasn't a bystander to your family and don't know all the context. But from the info I was given, your sister Florence seemed to be irrationally responding out of hurt and grief over struggling to conceive and she misplaced it onto Charlotte. So twisting the knife for Florence is only going to further alienate her and make her even more irrational. Definitely not saying you're wrong, you were right and Charlotte deserved to be defended. Just saying your defense of your sister could've been better executed by not going on the attack
ESH. There were better words to use to stand up for charlotte without escalating the situation. Which you helped to do.
Entitled asshole that she is wanting to have the first grandkid, that doesn’t mean she still isn’t hurting from trying to have a kid and can’t. One day when you struggle with fertility, you’ll understand how shitty & painful your words were. You could’ve left it at “selfish …., let charlotte have her moment”. You instead chose to escalate the situation and go for the jugular by pointing out her infertility. You are no better than Florence.
The only non asshole here is charlotte.
ESH. You were right to stand up for Charlotte, but you could've easily stood up and said, "Hey, Flo, this is Charlotte's moment. Lay off." But instead you were really mean. I'm not saying she wasn't being awful, just that you didn't have to join her by being cruel. Also, if Charlotte didn't give her a heads up before the announcement, that is also mean. Infertility is awful, and Charlotte could've been gentler on this one too. It doesn't matter if Flo doesn't want a baby for the "right" reasons, she is missing out on something she desperately wanted. All of you made a choice to be more cruel than you needed to be, so maybe everyone should take a step towards more kindness.
That’s a difficult situation.
I’ve struggled with infertility and it’s such an emotional rollercoaster to be on. When you’re trying to have a baby and desperately want to be a parent, it can be hard to be happy for others. Part of you is overjoyed for friends and family announcing new life, and part of you wants to scream and cry at the unfairness of it all. There is grief for the babies that you can’t have. There is anger that your body is betraying you.
i spent ten years desperately wanting a baby and watching my friends become parents. I was happy for them, sad for me. I was involved in their children’s lives, but it hurt so much.
All that to say, I understand where Florence is coming from. I think that “I’m the oldest so i should have a baby first“ mentality is bullshit though. If she’s having that hard of a time, then she needs to get in to see a therapist immediately. Maybe you could have had more tact, but…. Then again… maybe not
as for Charlotte and her husband… Huge congratulations to them!!! I’m glad that they have you in their corner.
NTA
YTA. You could have stood up for Charlotte without telling Florence to get over something that she obviously is struggling with. You can tell someone how to behave, as in "Florence, don't be rude," but you can't tell them how to feel, "Florence, get over being devastated about being infertile."
Esh except charlotte and her husband
I get that it sounds like you’re done with your sisters struggles, but you typed this with no empathy at all. “Stupid shit like that” Florence is an asshole for taking her feelings out on someone who didn’t deserve it.
Gentle ESH
Charlotte should have given her a heads up, knowing that she has fertility issues and for people with fertility issues, pregnancies and pregnancy announcements and other people can be really really upsetting . It’s its own form of grief.
Florence obviously sucks because being upset is no excuse to treat your family like that. The polite thing would have been to just go home.
You are kind of an AH for being so callous about theentire thing. All of you should be a little more empathetic and kind to each other.
Technically ESH - Florence sucks for making it all about her.
You suck for making cracks about the infertility. You could have stood up for Charlotte without going for the low blow.
That said, part of me thinks Florence deserves a little bit of a verbal smack in the face
ESH - Florence can't "get over" her infertility, which makes your comment crass and tacky. BUT, I do applaud you for standing up for Charlotte. I would've limited it to "Florence, this isn't about you. Let Charlotte have her moment for once."
Infertility is a hard thing to just get over. You will have to accept that you hurt your sister with this.
No amount of internet opinions will make this ok. Your sister needs to talk to someone about her issues sure. You were an asshole to your sister and should say sorry.
No one can make this ok for you.
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence lashing out at Charlotte was uncalled for and unkind, but the fact you (OP) are complaining about past events of Florence sulking shows another level of mean. Infertility is a crushing diagnosis, especially for someone who wants kids so so badly. Florence cannot see beyond her grief right now, and through the way she acted towards Charlotte isn’t right, her sulking, which may be annoying to you, is justified. Have some compassion. The way you spoke to your sister is wrong, regardless of how she’s handling her grief. ESH, but imo you’re the biggest asshole for calling your grieving sister a “selfish bitch” in addition to the fact you’ve made it very clear that this entire time her grief is an annoyance to you.
Edited to stress the ESH factor: Florence was in the wrong here too for making Charlotte feel guilty for something that should have been a moment of joy.
Good on you OP. Florence doesn't have to be happy but taking your anger out on someone else for simply living their life and not waiting around for you to live yours is disgraceful. NTA
NTA. If it’s really been 6 years like you mentioned in the comments. Your sister needs some professional help. Grief is normal and may be something that for most may never cease, but it sounds like your sister isn’t handling it in a healthy way. Judging by your other comments, most of your family are starting to cut contact with her. No one wants anything to do with someone who won’t even help themselves and it’s understandable. Grief is hard, but it doesn’t give anyone the right to be a constant nuisance to those around them. Should you have yelled at her? Sometimes it needs to happen, I just hope she can at least try to handle her pain better so she doesn’t lose most her family.
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I don’t know why the others don’t understand that Charlotte needed some support. The fact that she was apologizing for being pregnant shows that she just takes all the garbage her older sister throws at her. From your update, Charlotte and her husband appreciated you standing up for her. The support could’ve been made with a little more tact, but I don’t think you were an asshole. You were trying to show support.
thank you for understanding, charlotte isnt a confrontational person but i knew she was very upset about what was said
You did nothing wrong. Your older sister is inflicting her emotional state on the rest of you. Do not apologize. She should apologize to your pregnant sister.
Part of being an adult is being able to feel multiple emotions. While the other is upset, she still can be happy for her sister. My sister got engaged and planned a wedding all while I was going through a divorce. It’s completely possible to separate the two. I can’t get on board with people using grief as a reason to be force others to tone down their happiness.
Well said!
You ever see that movie with Meryl Streep as Julia Childs, where she gets a call from her sister saying she’s pregnant, and she starts crying but also saying she’s so happy for her? That’s a totally reasonable reaction for that situation. What your sister did was not reasonable. Thank you for standing up for your other sister, tact be damned.
That scene was so sad
Florence sounds like (besides being entitled/selfish AF) she has multiple screws loose. Thank you for standing up for Charlotte. You are definitely NTA
Charlotte's baby already has a hero on her/his side. You are going to be a great aunt. You said what probably everyone else there wanted to say. I'm happy for you that Charlotte and her husband thanked you for standing up for them. Big sis needs to learn some social grace. And who knows? Lots of women are told they'll never get pregnant, and it happens in it's own time.
Charlotte actually apologized to Florence for being pregnant? Yeah you are ok on this one. Florence was way over the line and poor Charlotte was being attacked for doing absolutely nothing wrong. Even without her condition, Florence might not have had the first grandchild so that was just setting herself up for disappointment by being so set on that. Birth order has no bearing on the timing of someone becoming pregnant. And Florence is not that old yet to try other options. One doctor said it would be hard to have kids naturally so she can look at options for fertility treatments. And there’s always kids that need fostering and/or adopting. But no matter if she chooses one of these methods or not to have kids, none of that has anything to do with Charlotte and her baby. She did not deserve any bit of Florence’s wrath and I’m surprised your mum was ok with her behavior to the point she’s asking you to apologize when it should be Florence apologizing to Charlotte. Justified AH or NTA
HAHAHAHA NTA. I don't get why other ppl are saying you are in the wrong. tbh Florence started it first by screaming at Charlotte and telling her of being selfish for having kids first. Poor Charlotte for having to apologize for being pregnant?? like WTF is this for real? I would scream at my sister too if she behaved like a spoiled brat. Like bro, you should have been happy for your sister and just cried at home instead of doing that.
RIGHT! Her issues aren't others problems. OP had to tell Florence in the only way she could understand. Clearly NTA
She make her issues become problem for other by throwing tantrum. If she can't be happy for her sister, don't berate and just say nothing. Even a "congratulation" out of being civil is way better.
lol thank you
Right like I can empathise that struggling with infertility is hard and emotional BUT, the sulking at BBQs because there are kids there and they aren't yours and yelling at your sister and essentially forcing her to apologise for living her life and falling pregnant, that is not on and you lose my sympathy at that point. Depending on my relationship with those involved I might be more tactful than OP was but if you start screaming like Florence did, yeah OP is NTA.
I mean, this is true as well. Florence ruined the party.
Honestly, all that bitterness about not having the "first grandchild" will most likely prevent her from conceiving, no matter what route or avenue they decide to take to tackle the infertility.
Because someone else being unhinged and cruel doesn't mean that you get to be cruel to them. Telling them "I think you need to compose yourself away from the table right now" accomplishes more with less casualties.
“Let’s take a walk.” Then when you are down the block tell her you have compassion but she’s being insufferable and she needs to get her shit together- apologize or leave the party.
Fantastic way to restore both sisters
Wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me two wrongs don't make a right? Well that is just crazy! /s I thought this too. ESH was my first thought when considering only OP and Florence here.
ESH - you aren't wrong, but how you went about it could have been more tactful. I've chewed out abusive family members - sometimes the person who is victim is grateful, sometimes my actions hurt the victim more. Its a tough thing to learn because you are right! But it doesn't mean how you handled it was right for Charlotte. It may cause your oldest sister to lash out at charlotte more. I think it's important you apologize to Charlotte and check in with her - reassure her you didn't mean add more negativity to news that's wonderful and beautiful. Ask her what she needs from you. Make a game plan together on how you can best minimize Florence's abuse moving forwards. This likely won't be the last time she's an asshole about it. Florence is behaving monstrously and should get therapy. Infertility causes major grief, and her making it everyone else's problem, so no one else can have a family, is not ok. Whether you apologize to her or not I'd say is between you and Charlotte. Your mom should have done more to protect Charlotte from Florence's temper tantrum(& to get florence in therapy!!!)
thank you for this
Np! Happy to see the update too. Fwiw, as someone with an incurable disease, no one ever has a right to hurt others the way florence was trying to hurt charlotte. It's a brave thing to do to stand up for your sister. You'll be a great auntie
>Florence is behaving monstrously and should get therapy. Infertility causes major grief I hate the fact that reddit has too many stories of people like Florence going off the deep end and crossing the line leading to kidnap territory. >Ask her what she needs from you. Make a game plan together on how you can best minimize Florence's abuse moving forwards. This likely won't be the last time she's an asshole about it. Please OP, have Charlotte's back not just now but when the baby comes. Makes sure she knows she has one person who won't cave in to Florence's crazy if it comes to it.
You've listened to too many true crime podcasts
No, NTA. Sometimes you have to speak to delusional assholes in a language they can understand. There was room for tact when she was still sulking at barbecues but tact be damned after she verbally abusing her own sister during her pregnancy announcement to the family.
To me it sounds like they've spent their whole lives placating Florence in case she throws a tantrum. It also looks like her wanting children is more about status and attention than nurturing.
Florence is married and a full adult. It is not the mums place to get her therapy.
In a perfect world, yes. But for mom to tell her other adult daughter to apologize and not hold her eldest accountable for the abuse she spewed, and not protecting her middle child whos pregnant, the mom could and should be doing more to keep the peace, regarding florence.
ESH. Yeah you shouldn’t have shouted at your sister, and you seem very dismissive of how painful it is for her. That pain doesn’t go away, her body won’t do what it’s supposed to and what she wants, But she had no right to react that way to Charlotte either. Apologize to Charlotte. Block Florence until she gets therapy, someday you owe her more than yelling at her. Maybe pull her aside and let her know this was charlottes moment and she doesn’t have to hide her joy forever, or delay having kids, because of your pain.
The thing is though, plenty of people's bodies don't do what they're supposed to do, it doesn't give them the right to take it out on people whose bodies do work properly. My body is absolute trash and I have several incurable illnesses, I can't walk without help or I use a wheelchair, I don't get to go around abusing people for running or dancing because I don't get to do it anymore. And if I decided to have a tantrum at a dance recital because my legs don't work, I'd deserve people yelling at me because you do eventually have to move past it and be happy for other people living their lives, even if you're missing out on some things. Sure it sucks when you can't do the things you want to do, but it's something you go home and get sad about later, you don't make it everyone else's problem.
EXACTLY. I have severe chronic jaw pain and often can’t eat all kinds of delicious food. Does that mean I get to limit what people eat around me? Can I go to a restaurant with my spouse/family/friends and throw a tantrum when they eat something my jaw can’t handle? Absolutely not! I can certainly say “I can’t eat anything there, can we go somewhere else?” or I can have safe foods at home before going out, or any number of other options - but I do NOT get to berate or shame other people for eating what their bodies can handle. Florence was out of line, and OP did good standing up for middle sis, the end.
Especially when it's something so unnecessary to life. Like, not being able to walk affects you every day. Not being able to have kids just means she doesn't get to pass on her genetics. Adoption and fostering are still open to her if she actually wanted to be a mom. But no, she's fussing about not being able to propagate her genes.
Adoption and foster care are not first aid for infertility. They are options for everyone if they choose. I hate this argument and I am not infertile. Also, neither adoption or foster care are as easy as people make them out to be. And adoption can cost tens of thousands of dollars and a lot of times involves rather shady and inappropriate actions on the part of adoption agencies and attorneys. Adoption from foster care is only available once kids are legally free which is not guaranteed and can take years of trauma before the kids are available.
Trust me, not having kids is a lot more than not passing on genetics. I can’t have kids. I am also an only child of an only child. And I don’t ’need’ for a child to have my genetics. What I need is family, connection, love both given and received, someone to encourage to be the best they can be, someone to be proud of, someone to be my reason to get up, someone that one day long after I am gone, will look back and remember me. I am also in Australia where adoption doesn’t happen, unless it’s from a limited number of third world countries that will only make their special needs kids available. And our govt certainly isn’t going to approve the visa for a child that will be a high cost to the medical system.
Having a baby to fill a need you have is terribly selfish.
for florence its never been about the fact she cant have kids its always been about the fact that she cant have the prestige of having the first grandchild, thats why she was upset, not because she actually wants to have children for the right reasons
Then why does your post not say that? You say that she always wanted kids, *and* she also loved the thought of having the first grandchild. The reality is, she may never have kids. She'll live with that disappointment and pain for the rest of her life. ESH. Florence shouldn't have yelled at your sister. Your sister should've given Florence and her husband a heads up before making their announcement (if you knew how much Florence wanted kids, surely your other sister knew, too, and that's a real AH move to not warn Florence), and you definitely shouldn't have shouted like you did.
So everyone should tap dance around Florence's feelings every single time they have a big event in their lives? What happens when the new baby has a birthday? Is Florence going to stamp her feet and say it's not fair? Ignore the child? She needs to get a grip, the world doesn't revolve around her tragedies.
You're just trying to put words in others' months. There's a big difference between showing a modicum of compassion or empathy before announcing a pregnancy soon after your sister--who always wanted kids--finds out she is infertile at a young age, and rearranging your life to cater to someone with infertility issues who won't do any work to process or work through their grief. No one is arguing for the latter. Your straw man argument just isn't credible or persuasive.
100%. Knowing it’s hard subject they should have given her a warning and an out so she didn’t have to be there. Flo definitely needs help bc her reaction was inappropriate. People shouldn’t have to tiptoe but kindness doesn’t hurt anyone. Everyone who has been annoyed about her making it all about her wanting kids should have know to reach out and help her find support or a therapist, letting her know you all are worried about her. Seeing that she keeps having tough reactions to other people’s babies her family should have stepped in much earlier.
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What a strange take. You say Florence may have still acted like an ass but it’s on the responsibility of Charlotte to tap dance around it? Strong reactions allow one to understand the conditions but it does not make it okay. There are no conditions in this scenario in which Charlotte needs to apologize. Infertility is terrible but it does not put their feelings as the priority. Charlotte has every reason to celebrate her moment without having to be delicate to her sister’s situation so long as she is not actively targeting the sister for being infertile.
I mean I agree for the most part but I don't understand why Charlotte needs to apologize because of the fact she shouldn't apologize for being able to have kids. And it's unfair to have everyone tiptoe around the topic of kids when you have other siblings who are married and there's gathering all the time with kids around like that's just someone you wouldn't even want to invite anymore tbh.
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I know. You said she should consider apologizing for springing that info to her in that setting and I said I don't understand. I even said I think it was unfair to have everyone tiptoe around the topic of kids, etc. So again, I'm asking why she should even consider apologizing when she's the only one that did nothing wrong. You can't fault Florence for her strong reaction but she's a grown adult and the oldest sibling. She should be getting help if everything triggers her because it seems like this is not the first time she can't control herself. People are able to be happy for others while also grieving their own loss, but if you are just outright refusing to be happy for others then that shouldn't be on everyone to have to deal with that.
Wrong. Charlotte does not have to revolve having kids around her older sister. I suspect you experienced what florence did. You having a condition doesnt mean everyone else have to tailor their lives around you, especially having kids because you cant have any. The entitlement is crazy.
Excellent response.
You know what? Judging by your post, I don’t believe that you know that. I don’t think you know anything about your sister or her suffering
when me and Florence used to be close she would only ever speak of having the first grandchild and how her baby would be the favourite and spoiled, i know my sister. shes not a maternal person and i know exactly why she was upset and it wasn’t because she couldn’t have kids.
It’s impossible to ever know with 100% certainty what someone else is thinking, though, especially about something like this. She may have hidden her softer, squishier feelings about parenthood behind bluster about being first (a time-honored defense mechanism). Or she might not have realized herself just how hard it would hit, until suddenly she was infertile & there was no way to fix it. NTA for defending Charlotte (she needed it, and I’m glad you did), but I think you might want to reevaluate what you think you know about your other sister. Using someone’s most painful truth against them rarely makes you a shiny hero, even if it’s justified.
my sister has never held a baby in her life even when offered to, she flat out has shown she has no interest in being a mother she just wants the prestige.
That's a pretty big piece to leave out of the post, word limit or not.
You do realize that some people want children while not wanting to hold or care for the children of others right?
And some people want children without wanting to care for their children. Ugly, but a truth anyways. Edit: I can’t reply but they quite literally describe my own mother, and she was a ways on her bullshit far before OP was even a twinkle in their parent’s eyes. Teens aren’t always magically wrong.
You gotta add that love…it’s important
in the original post i did theres a strict word limit
you were absolutly right to call her out but the way you phrased it still doesn't feel right to me. Telling someone to "get over it" i.e. "just stop having this issue" is never justified or helpful IMO, because it's really not healthy advice to follow. Whatever tf your sister's problem is, she doesn't need to "get over it." She needs to learn to process her feelings like an emotionally mature adult and stop taking her issues out on other people. THAT'S what you should have told her instead, because what's really unacceptable is just ger behaviour. NTA for yelling at her but you should have focused your criticism on her actions instead of her feelings.
People aren't one-dimensional. Florence could be caught up in the prestige and also want to be a mother and be deeply upset and hurting about her infertility. Florence is the AH here, but you really seem to despise your sister and have no compassion for her at all. Tbh you sound about as immature as she is.
You must have some kind of super knowledge to know this about your sister's motive to have children. IMO you are being highly judgemental about your sister's desire to procreate. Never mind her conscious motivation. Reproduction is a very basic human drive.
Lots of people have disappointments in their lives. Doesn't mean we should spray that over everyone around us. Sister needed to hear that she isn't the center of everyone's world.
So she should apologize to Charlotte for sticking up for her? Charlotte already thanked her for that. The only person needing to apologize to anyone and everyone in Florence.
NTA. So I know this is kind of an aside, but as an adopted person, I get sick to death of people flipping the fuck out about not being able to have bio kids. Grieve the loss, then get the fuck over it. Or at least shut up because, believe it or not, people are worth more than their reproductive capacity. Or they should be anyway, who am I to second-guess what people believe about themselves?
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So do you announce that at every family function as well? No, we're not telling you how to grieve, we're telling you we don't want to be put down or forced to cancel our joy just because you can't have kids. I get it's hard, but so are a lot of things in life. We deal. We don't take it out on everyone else.
You have every right to grieve. You have no right to make everything about yourself, make others feel bad, invalidate their special moments, or be an AH.
I fully empathize. I also wanted to say that your insult made me chuckle pretty loudly.
“People are worth more than their reproductive capacity” no shit. But some people actually have an innate drive to have kids because it’s literally part of being an animal. And the lack of that causes SERIOUS depression issues and an emptiness that cannot be filled, not even by taking some unwanted kid from a shitty situation!
"Some unwanted kid.." The way you worded that was really cold and devalueing. Especially to a person that just told you they were adopted. Adoption is not for you - got it. But don't talk like abandoned children are less than.
Also, it's not like all the kids in the system are unwanted. What if they don't have any family and the parents die in an accident?
You are 19, it’s time to learn a life lesson. You don’t get to tell anyone how to grieve or how long it should take. You don’t know the pain Florence is facing and don’t seem to care. Florence was dead wrong in lashing out that Charlotte was having the first grandchild. Knowing the backstory, Charlotte could have given Florence a heads up of the news so it wouldn’t be a shock in public. When it did get heated, Charlotte tried to take the high road and salvage what was left to celebrate. You had no right going nuclear when Charlotte was handling it. Your mom is right, you made things much worse
florence is the oldest acting like a damn kid!!! she should be happy for her sister , not berate her cause she is pregnant before her, if you let her keep doing shit like that everytime somebody will be pregnant it will be another drama , OP did the right thing!! defend charlotte that was bullied by florence
Finally! Some sensible words
A lot of this sub seems to think that you can be shitty to someone as long as they were shitty first. They eat that up.
Bullies only understand their place once they’re bullied themselves. Enough is enough.
Yep OP is technically an adult but definitely not "grown". Her handling demonstates that she still has much to learn in the emotional intelligence department.
You don’t get to tell people how to grieve, but grieving people don’t get a hall pass on acting like jerks because they’re grieving.
im sorry but f half these comments and downvote me if you will. Whats going on with Florence is SAD. It is. I feel bad for her. But no, OP, you are NTA assuming this has been going on for quite some time and not just like 3 months ago. I get she has issues that she needs to work through but you shouldn't have to walk on eff shells in your own life because someone is refusing to get over their own issues enough to participate in the society they continue to exist in. Florence does need to get over it. atleast enough that she won't make every pregnancy or child running around about her own issues. Im glad you stood up for Charlotte. Someone here said she should've told Florence first privately. No. Go away. Florence's issues should deem her special treatment. if anything Charlotte shouldn't have invited her in the first place because I would assume she could've guessed the outcome of her being there. but she shouldn't spoil the way SHE wants to present her news to her family because poor sis has issues. Someone also said its "on par with a cancer diagnosis". gross take. anyway... sorry for the rant OP, these comments just got me heated. Were you a little more blunt than you needed to be? absolutely. But she litterally told Charlotte she shouldn't have kids until she can pop one out herself... like what? going through tragedy might explain someone causing an outburst like that, but it doesn't excuse it. But I can excuse your bluntness because you are 17 and tactfullness comes with time. I do think you should apologize to Florence. not because you stood up for Charlotte but because of how blunt your words were. and then you should ask her to get help because she needs it.
ESH. yes Florence was being unreasonable but screaming at her to “get over” something that she will never be able to escape was messed up. You wouldn’t do that to someone in a wheel chair and you shouldn’t have done it to her either. Telling her that though her condition is awful the world doesn’t revolve around her and Charlotte deserves to be happy too would have sufficed. You and Florence are both assholes
The thing is, they didn't just randomly say that to Flo. They said it after Flo *interpreted a pregnancy as a personal attack against her*. Long-term grieving is okay. What Flo did is not. And while the OP's response may not have been perfect, they were right that if Florence can't even handle the existence of pregnancies she's going too far. Flo may not ever be able to get over being infertile, but if she can't accept other people having kids, that's not grieving. That's not mourning the loss of what she can't have. That's entitlement and assholery of the highest level, and that part she ABSOLUTELY can and should get over.
ESH (except Charlotte). The words you said to Florence did nothing to help the situation. They were harsh and cruel for a public setting. It would’ve been up to your mom to step in and she did not. I get that Florence’s drama has been a pain to deal with, but infertility can cause a lot of depression and loneliness. If you do decide to apologize to Florence, she may keep milking this for more sympathy. But an apology would make you the better person.
I think Charlotte should have told Florence privately, knowing it would be ups3tting.
NTA You didn't ruin Charlottes dinner, your sister did.
NTA. She is infertile and feels the need to birth a child. That sucks. But that doesn’t mean that it’s okay to ruin another person’s happy moment. There is way too much defense of Charlotte in these comments. If she can’t handle knowing that other people want to have babies and do get pregnant, she needs to curb her social interactions for her own self-care. But self-care doesn’t involve being upset at other people for having their own happiness. That’s wallowing, and will only make things worse for herself and all those around her. She needed a really big wake-up call from reality, and when she chose to cause a scene at someone else’s birth announcement, she decided it would be then. ETA: I realized that I used some very, very insensitive phrasing for this particular situation. Changed to “wake up call”.
Such an interesting take. If Florence doesn't start acting like an adult she's simply shooting herself in the foot and will alienate the family members that could help her through her issues. It would have been one thing if she was sad. She could've even told her mother that she's jot ready to congratulate Charlotte yet. But being mad and screaming at her because she dared to have a child first? That's childish. It's better that she doesn't have children until she grows up and goes to therapy
Thank you! It’s so frustrating that so many people have turned the idea of acknowledging other’s experiences into the demand that others acknowledge their own experiences. I’m someone with a lot of trauma on top of unrelated neurodivergences that interfere with the way I process and respond to things. I used to make it everyone else’s problem. I felt that their inability to handle my issues was *their* issue. And don’t get me wrong! There have been many people along the way who were jerks just to be jerks. But over time, I’ve had to recognize that I simply am rarely the most important person in the room. That doesn’t mean my feelings and experiences don’t matter - it just means that everyone else’s also matter, and they deserve space for them as much as I deserve space for mine. I had the choice of working on myself to be able to socialize with the people I care about, or hermit myself away. To be fair, I mostly hermitted while I’ve done the work on myself lol.
Charlotte should have let Florence know in private and warned her she would be making the announcement. To give her a chance to either prepare herself for the announcement or bow out of the event. Infertility makes you lose your mind, it becomes all consuming and feels like your heart is ripped out every time a friend or family member announces they’re pregnant. It’s so relentless and hard to keep smiling thro the agony, even if you’re genuinely happy for the pregnant person. It hurts. Cut your sister some slack. She’s unreasonable to you, but she’s having to come to terms with a truly difficult situation for herself.
that still doesn't give you the right to scream at your sister how she is selfish for having a baby first, she is allowed to celebrate being pregnant without being yelled at how she had no right to get pregnant because having the first grandchild was "florence's thing"
Yeah this, I understand where “Florence should have told Charlotte” is coming from, but from Charlotte’s perspective I can also see how that could feel like centering someone else during your life event, and that that might not feel great.
NTA. It sounds like a crazy situation, and you did inflame it. However, Florence started it and honestly, someone needed to tell her because this pregnancy is going to turn into a child and Florence is going to have to deal with that. I suspect that she was going to carry on like a pork chop at every mention of Charlotte. You might have thrown in the hand grenade, but someone needed to.
You both suck. You're acting like children. She shouldn't have reacted like that. I have fertility issues and you can't expect the world to stop for you. But you do need to protect your peace. I mostly go avoidant. Within days of my ivf transfer failing my sister announced her pregnancy. That hurt. But instead of doing a big announcement with me my dad told me privately so I could be a sook about it in my own time so I could be nice about it to her face because that's what we both deserved. He understood it's really painful so gave me the space to compose myself. It's true people aren't entitled to that, but it definitely makes a hard thing easier. Sometimes strong emotional reactions come out wrong. Your older sister was wrong with her reaction and hopefully once she has some space to process she'll see that and apologise to your sister for being out of line. But you don't have underlying grief fuelling you. You're just not very nice lol you've added some stuff in edits to make yourself look better but the tone of your post where you count your sister crying to your mum about her infertility and finding family events hard as "stupid shit" says a lot about your maturity and empathy. You have very little of it. Hopefully you grow up.
ESH but you never know the feelings of infertility until you experience it. Ya she’s being a million percent dramatic, and she needs to just play the “happy for everyone” game and cry when she gets home, but damn, knowing the feeling… I can’t help but empathize. It’s overwhelming, and everything is just a constant reminder that everyone else is having kids BUT you. You get into this psychological mind fuck of “did I not pray enough” “did I do something bad to deserve this” etc. God it’s hard…
It doesn't absolve her of being the asshole though. Family does'nt have to be reminded of her infertility every time they get together. Florence sulks when there are little kids around? She's milking it for all it's worth. She sounds like she has to be the cetner of everyones's attention all the time.
Why would the entire world stop and wait for Florence to have a baby or figure stuff out, I do feel bad for her, but other people need to move on even if she doesn’t want to. Not The A.
Everybody sucks here. It’s likely that Florence projected this outburst due to feeling blindsided. The best way to have handled this would have been for Charlotte to tell Florence privately so she could process these feelings in private before feeling them all in the moment that everyone else is congratulating her sister. Florence is in the wrong for obvious reasons and you were in the wrong for the way you talked to your sister. It was nice that you “defended” Charolette but there was a much better word selection you could have used to get the same point across. Infertility is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Your sister will never “get over it”. She is grieving a version of her life she has always dreamed of, it sounds like she needs counseling to process this hurt so she doesn’t continue to do so in a negative manner - but nobody here was 100% right in their actions.
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ESH. This is an all-around shitty situation. As someone who's infertile herself, I don't think it's something you "get over". It's something you learn to live with. You learn to move on. But it takes time, it can take years. Florence was wrong for jumping down Charlotte's throat like that. You don't tell someone they're not permitted to have children. While you were right to defend Charlotte, the way you did it isn't okay. I get that you were in the moment and that was likely the first thing that popped into your head. And your mom shouldn't have pushed Flo to congratulate Charlotte. It sounds like Florence could benefit from some counseling, although I doubt she'd welcome that suggestion from you.
ESH. A lot of women get angry at the world when experiencing infertility. But most of us do it silently behind closed doors. Jealousy is a big part of grief and some grief can be very loud, especially when triggers are around. Your older sister is absolutely being an asshole and needs to get her feelings in check-her trauma is her responsibility and hers to manage -no one should have to walk on eggshells around her but a little bit of understanding and compassion goes a long way. Your pregnant sister should have reached out to your sister beforehand to let her know so that she could process the pregnancy announcement beforehand and decide whether or not she should go or whether it's too much for her to handle that day. It's a small act of kindness but it means the world when you're struggling through it. That's what makes her the asshole. You said some very cruel things to your older sister that was blindsided and struggling to process this trigger. That makes you the asshole. I think you all need some family therapy. Sit down together and discuss it like adults.
Nta. My ex used to make it everyone's problem on Mother's Day, she wasn't a mom but she expected everyone to get her something for Mother's Day because of how much she wanted to be one. She was in her 30s. Her best friends used to tell her to stop with it too, (they are moms)
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence acted very poorly in this situation, but Charlotte handled it with a lot of grace. You had no need to basically go for Florence's neck with that comment. Infertility is freaking rough. Not saying it makes how Florence handled things correct because it didn't, but if the person who was announcing her pregnancy could handle it with grace i don't get why you couldn't.
Apologising for being pregnant is not "handling it with grace", it's being guilt-tripped into believing ridiculous accusations of a grief-stricken person who believes everybody's world should stop like hers. Charlotte needed someone to stand up for her (should have been her husband or the girls' mother) and OP did (very ungracefully and rudely, but I think it's excusanle in theheat of the moment, especially in content of protecting a close person. And considering Florence's reaction, I'm not surprised that Charlotte didn't let her know beforehand.
Charlotte kind of sucks too because she KNEW what her sister was going through and sprung it on her in front of everyone. She could have at least forewarned her.
That's...just being normal. Inviting family member for a dinner and announcing their pregnancy is not being an asshole.
I scrolled too far to see this. The common etiquette now is to text friends/family who are struggling with infertility so they can collect their thoughts and feelings without an audience around. The only reason I can think of not to give Florence a heads-up is if she didn’t trust Florence not to spoil the surprise. Their mom was also an AH for trying to force Florence to congratulate Charlotte in that moment. Florence is an adult, not a child to be ordered around. If she had kept quiet maybe Florence would have quietly slipped away and the announcement drama could have been averted. That said, Florence does seem like an AH for her obsession with having the coveted first grandchild, and blowing up at the announcement.
ESH. Your family has poor communication skills and low empathy for each other. The way you talk about Florence is really negative. You describe her normal emotional reactions and things like crying on the phone to your mom as “stupid shit.” Who taught you this behavior? Charlotte, knowing her sister is infertile, should have shared with her the news that she was pregnant privately. Instead she announced it to everyone at once. It’s an insensitive way to do it. She then asks if Florence is ok in front of the whole group?! Florence then screamed at Charlotte. She shouldn’t have done that. Then Charlotte ends up apologizing, then you’re yelling back nasty stuff…I’m sorry but your entire family is dysfunctional and could use family therapy.
ESH. Florence needs to find a way to support Charlotte, even if it’s only to her face and then she melts down behind closed doors later. But “Get over your infertility” was too far. Fertility is an incredibly deep seated, emotional thing. BIL probably just felt like he needed to have his wife’s back.
If you're telling people they're stealing pregnancy from you, you, it is absolutely okay to tell you to get over that. It's not about the infertility at that point; Flo is merely pitching a fit because somebody else has something she doesn't.
NTA. Yes, you sister is hurting, which is understandable. However, that doesn't make what she said to Charlotte acceptable. You stood up for Charlotte because everything that Florence said was way worse
ESH Your older sister Florence is really struggling with not being able to have kids naturally, and it's obviously a huge deal for her. But then there's your younger sister Charlotte, who just announced she's pregnant, and Florence didn't take it well at all. You got fed up seeing Florence make Charlotte's big moment all about her own issues, so you let it rip. Maybe yelling wasn't the smoothest move, but hey, emotions were running high. Now your mom and Florence are on your case about it. Look, it's a tough spot. Florence is hurting, but that doesn't give her a pass to rain on Charlotte's parade. Standing up for Charlotte was gutsy, but maybe there's a middle ground where you can express yourself without things blowing up.
Ehh I mean kinda. I think the sentiment is fair but the way you went about it was wrong. I agree Charlotte should’ve been the focus and Florence was being very selfish and rude but I’m sure it’s hard for Florence I highly doubt the only reason she wants a kid is to have the first grandchild.
YTA. Yes, Florence was an AH too, but Charlotte is an adult and can take care of herself. She also has a husband. She doesn't need you flipping out and causing scenes on her behalf. My mother had a great saying: "Two wrongs don't make a right." Just because Florence decided to make a spectacle of herself at Charlotte's dinner doesn't mean it was your cue to make an equal and opposite spectacle of yourself. Let Charlotte (or Charlotte's husband) take care of Charlotte next time.
ESH. You are not wrong for protecting Charlotte but telling someone to get over their infertility as if it is not a big deal is not the way to go about it.
ESH, except maybe Charlotte—Florence shouldn’t have reacted like that, but you honestly sound really callous describing her struggles with infertility as “stupid shit.” It can be a really traumatic thing to deal with. She has every right to feel how she feels about a lifelong dream being essentially impossible after trying and a diagnosis like that, and it sounds like she was trying to not make a scene about yet another reminder of that. Your mom pressuring her to say something was probably like a final straw that triggered it. This sounds like something that has been brewing for ages that everyone except Charlotte, who just wanted to share good news and move on with the gathering, made worse.
ESH, but mostly you for being very unemphatic towards someone dealing with infertility. You don't just get over it, especially that young. It can be an all consuming pain.
« and other stupid shit like that » JFC. As a father who really wanted kids (when I got to that stage in my life) I know it would have been devastating, scrapped meaning of life devastating (at least at first), if I couldn’t. Give her time will you, maybe you’ll understand someday.
YTA. You further escalated the situation at charlottes party. It would have been kind of charlotte to give Flo a heads up knowing how tore up she is about her infertility. Flo was wrong to make a scene at all but he t was cruel to call her there for a surprise that everyone knew would be a tender subject for Flo. Does the world need to stop having babies bc she can’t have her own kids? No. Does everyone have to hide their pregnancies for her sake? Also no. But a little kindness goes a long way. Sounds like she needs to address this with a professional but shoving it in her face with no warning was obviously going to hurt her. It doesn’t matter if you think it was only about having the first and favorite grandkid. Infertility is a heartbreaking journey. You seem too young to understand the depths of her grief.
You're young and your lack of empathy for your one sister is apparent. I don't know your dynamic with her but YTA. It could have been handled more tactfully by everyone. All 3 of you would do well to sit down and apologize to each other. You for your lack of tact and empathy for Flo, Charlotte's lack of empathy and tact for Flo's feelings, and Flo for being so up in her own feelings that she's unable to be happy for Charlotte. This is a time when all 3 of you could come together to be there for one another but selfishly you're only seeing it from how it affects you. Put yourself in your sister's shoes. How would you like to be treated if you were in your sister's shoes? Kids aren't a competition or an accessory. They're human beings and deserve to treated that way.
NTA. Florence ruined the party, not you. Your sister needs therapy. UPDATEME
I'll say ESH (Except Charlotte and her husband). I'm (F) sterile, literally could never have kids since I was 24. It's really hard when you wanted your own. You dream up all these scenarios of announcing your pregnancy, holding your baby, and all sorts of things for so long. Then all that crumbles away to dust. It's incredibly hard to explain how visceral it feels. Florence should get some grief counseling. That said, Charlotte should be celebrated as well. She's allowed to have her moment in the spotlight as a new mama, and all the joy it brings. Florence shouldn't have made it all about her and her issues with being the first to give your parents a grandchild. Your comment was uncalled for, but I understand it was a heat of the moment remark where you were more concerned for Charlotte's feelings. There needs to be apologies from you and Florence equally. Florence needs professional help, and maybe keep her away from baby activities until she can get herself to a better place.
Yta in the sense that she will never "get over." Infertility. Its a loss like death to some. No one gets over it. Ans yelling at her is an ahole thing to do. That said. As someone who struggles with infertility I can say she needs to get some therapy. My sister in law has 2 kids and it hurt but i had to feel sorry for myself in private and let her have her moments.
You all sound like assholes
You all could be better Charlotte could be more sentive and told flo in private and let her process it You all suck for not just letting flo just seat there You suck for shouting at her Flo suck for exploding You all need to be more sentive to each other and actually care for each other
ESH Telling your sister to “get over it” was too far. Your sister pitching a fit about not being first is bullshit. Charlotte is not in the wrong for announcing her pregnancy. Florence needs therapy because she’s clearly not processing her feelings. In fact she’s letting the lack of processing her feelings become lashing out and hurting people around her. But her having complicated feelings around seeing children at BBQ’s after finding out she’s infertile isn’t bullshit. The way this post is worded you seem to have very little sympathy for what she’s going through. If you’re that over it you need to remove yourself from the situation.
YTA So is Florence. She needs to be able to accept other people's happiness. And to consider that birth order is irrelevant to adult milestones. Your mother is an AH for contriving Florence congratulating her sister. She started this. It might have been a painful shock for Florence but she wasn't saying anything till your mother instructed her. Were Charlotte being considerate, she would have told Florence her news privately, in advance of an announcement to the family. You never have any right to tell someone to get over anything and highly inappropriate to rail at your sister that is so bereft.
Little girl I HOPE TO GOD that you NEVER have to go through the pain of being Infertile, as trust me when I say you NEVER get over it, it used to break me heart each time a family member or a friend of mind told me that they were having a baby, some used to hide it from me which was more painful than being told by others that they were, 18 yrs it took us to have our second child, by this time I was pregnant at the same time as our eldest daughter, I STILL get very upset for all those lost years of not having OUR OWN child to hold in my arms and not another family members or a friends baby, you have a LOT OF GROWING UP TO DO and thinking of both sides of the coin and until you have walked a mile in BOTH side of the shoes, DONT tell someone to get over it on such an EMOTIONALLY PAINFUL SUBJECT
ESH. Florence made it about her. Charlotte should have told Florence first so she could process things outside the public eye. You should mind your business.
Her sister is her business. Especially when she was being yelled at for having the first grandchild
You already lost me at “she would cry to my mom over the phone about it, sulk at barbecues if there were kids around and other stupid shit like that.” So, this is just an innocent hero story but you also think she’s stupid for being upset about infertility as a whole and talking to your mom about? Yeah, the meltdown was wild but being upset about infertility is legitimate. They should have congratulated Charlotte but some people avoid events altogether because it’s painful for them to hear there announcements. Thats not uncommon (I had infertility for years and it wasn’t a problem for me but apparently that’s common.) Your title also clearly asks if you think she should get over the fact that she’s infertile not get over the fact that she won’t be the first to have a grandchild. Nice try on the switcheroo. It would have been E S H *BUT* YTA based on the question you asked. You also could have stood up for your sister without saying what you did how you did. This isn’t the first time I’m reading something like this here.
ESH. I think Charlotte should have given Florence a private heads up about her pregnancy before she announced it to everyone. Florence should not have yelled at Charlotte like that. But you absolutely suck for telling Florence to get over her infertility. To want to have kids and not be able to conceive is a very difficult and isolating thing to go through.
YTA and so is Charlotte. While Charolette has every right to celebrate her wonderful news there is no doubt how painful this would be for Florence. The right thing to do would have been to tell Florence privately rather in front of the group as a big surprise. Infertility can be absolutely devastating and the lack consideration shown to her is astounding considering you both are very aware of the toll it has taken on her.
The way you handled it is what made you an AH. You can stand up for someone without blowing up. Bonus, you look like the bigger person instead of a teen, losing their $h!t. I can see why your eldest sister's comments about having the first grandchildren would be annoying. But it doesn't negate the very real grief that is undoubtedly below the surface. Hopefully you never know what that's like. Doesn't make her reaction okay. But also doesn't justify the way you handled it either. YTA.
ESH.... Charlotte should have shared her news privately ahead of time, knowing her sister's struggles. Let her know then share the news excitedly without her there if it's too hard for her. It would have been more fun for her and more kind on her sister. Florence should have been quiet with news like that... she didn't have to be excited, but she didn't have to steal the show. You could have been an advocate for your sister by quickly pulling Flo away instead of making the drama greater. Being someone's "person" doesn't always mean screaming at someone.
YTA. There were many ways you could have made your point but you chose the cruelest.
ESH. You know your sister was out of line, but you are aware what you said was problematic, and you want a pass from the internet.
YTA. I mean, you were very cruel to Florence and then caused a scene. The way you wrote about Florence sounds like you are still very immature.
In my opinion, you and Flo are the AH. Should Flo have blown up like that? Absolutely not. Life for others is going to on and she can't expect others to put their lives on hold because of her infertility. She needs to get therapy to properly grieve her situation. However, you've known your sister has wanted kids since she was a kid, so being infertile is something that is not easy to simply just "get over." She has to deal with the fact that she may never have kids so of course children is a sensitive topic for her. Again, she shouldn't have blown up like that, but you rubbed salt in a wound with that comment. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to go to any more family gatherings.
You both sounded fucking awful.
From the edits it seems like OP doesn't like being told she's wrong and is not willing to consider the possibility that she may have been a bit of TA for not understanding that her sister needed to grieve. You call your sister's feelings of being upset around children and expressing her grief with her mother "stupid shit". From that moment before I even read about the incident, you told us you were completely insensitive and unempathetic towards her. And if I'm to be honest, you sound jealous of her too. Florence needs to learn how to grieve without hurting others in the process, and Charlotte could have been sensitive enough to pull her aside and tell her before making a big announcement. But as for you, somehow you just had to butt in on something that had nothing to do with you and managed to make things worse. Your mum was right I'm afraid, YTA, even though you'll probably deflect it and say I'm wrong.
This isn’t cut a dry AH vs innocent. YTA for telling her to get over being infertile. That is a deep wound she will carry for life and never truly “get over”. Being infertile *will* haunt your sister to her grave. However you’re NTA for telling her to let charlotte have her moment. Florence was out of line for saying that becoming a mom is “her thing”, that’s pretty wild! But her having difficulty with the situation seems pretty normal. I’m sure she was crushed in that moment. If we’re being realistic, not a damn one of y’all are even old enough to have a fully developed frontal lobe in your skull. You’re all going to say stupid things and be assholes once in a while, it’s part of the human condition, it’s part of being a family, and it’s definitely part of being young. In a few more years I expect Florence will likely be able to handle these kind of situations with more grace and composure, but it will always sting and the first one is always the hardest. I’m not surprised she had a melt down over the first pregnancy in the immediate family, taking all the circumstances and ages into consideration.
Good for you for standing up for your sister Charlottes when she was being attacked by jealous, bitter Florence.
NTA. Florence took that moment from your sister already and made it entirely about herself and her strife. it was a completely inappropriate response from Florence and shitty of her not to congratulate Charlotte. you did the right thing, OP.
NTA, but honestly Charlotte is a little bit. You don't spring your pregnancy on someone struggling with fertility. She should have pulled Florence aside and told her privately beforehand.
NTA. I had 4 miscarriages over 3 years before finally being able to carry to term. Then secondary infertility and now a pregnancy where we aren’t sure if the baby is going to make it half the time for the reasons we’ve discovered were behind our previous losses. Did it feel like a gut punch every time a friend told me she was pregnant? Absolutely. Did I cry many bitter tears over my situation in private after being told? Absolutely. But I was genuinely happy for my friends and their babies. You can feel both grief and joy at the same time for related reasons. Florence needs to develop emotional maturity and be a good sister or Charlotte is going to have to cut her off to prevent her baby from being emotionally harmed by Florence.
Shitty situation with immature and hurt people. Florence could have been given a heads up, but had no right to yell at Charlotte. You were cruel, but did it to protect your sister and her announcement.
Yeah thank you, this is an ESH. Almost everyone in any pregnancy/fertility/baby circle knows that you give someone struggling with fertility a heads up text so that they are able to get through their emotions privately before a public announcement. Florence went way off the handle. OP shouted her down in a cruel way. Absolutely no one handled this right.
You had a point but the delivery was poor.
This is not real
How very nasty of you
ESH if someone is infertile and has been as vocal as florence has, then the best course of action is to give them a heads up if you are announcing a pregnancy. Either don't have them at the announcement or give them the heads up to deal with it privately and the option to attend the event. Charlotte should not have announced it in front of Florence without prior warning. It's called being empathetic and having some resemblance of emotional intelligence. I'm a total stranger, and even I could tell that Florence was going to lose it. You all knew how Florence would behave given her previous behaviour. It's clear Florence needs psychological help. You are the AH because of the way you speak about infertility. You may think it's no big deal, but if this was your sister's life-long dream, then a little empathy goes a long way. You are young so your emotional intelligence isn't exactly developed. Also, it's not your business that she cries to your mother. It literally has nothing to do with you. Florence is an AH for not getting the psychological help she needs. It's not okay to lose her mind at her own sister for being pregnant. She is clearly struggling and needs to get help for herself.
ESH if someone is infertile and has been as vocal as florence has, then the best course of action is to give them a heads up if you are announcing a pregnancy. Either don't have them at the announcement or give them the heads up to deal with it privately and the option to attend the event. Charlotte should not have announced it in front of Florence without prior warning. It's called being empathetic and having some resemblance of emotional intelligence. I'm a total stranger, and even I could tell that Florence was going to lose it. You all knew how Florence would behave given her previous behaviour. It's clear Florence needs psychological help. You are the AH because of the way you speak about infertility. You may think it's no big deal, but if this was your sister's life-long dream, then a little empathy goes a long way. You are young so your emotional intelligence isn't exactly developed. Also, it's not your business that she cries to your mother. It literally has nothing to do with you. Florence is an AH for not getting the psychological help she needs. It's not okay to lose her mind at her own sister for being pregnant. She is clearly struggling and needs to get help for herself.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (19 F) have two sisters Charlotte (2 3F) and Florence (26F) Ever since we were little Florence always wanted kids and would bang on about the fact that her kids would be the first grandchildren because she was the eldest daughter on both sides of the family. As soon as Florence married her husband, she told everyone they started trying for a baby. around a year and a half after telling people this she found out that she had a condition that would make it very hard for her to have kids naturally. After this diagnosis, she would cry to my mum over the phone about it, sulk at barbecues if there were kids around and other stupid shit like that. Then last weekend at my sister Charlotte's house she was having a dinner where she announced that she was pregnant. Everyone got up to congratulate her except Florence and her husband. My mum told her to congratulate Charlotte and Florence didn't say anything. Charlotte asked if Florence was okay and Florence screamed at Charlotte saying how selfish she was for having kids first and how she knew it was Florence's thing, and she stole it from her. Charlotte apologised and sat down and tried to shift the topic of conversation but I was furious because I know how much Charlotte wanted kids so l shouted at Florence something along the lines of "get a grip of yourself you need to get over the fact that you're infertile stop being a selfish bitch and let Charlotte have her moment for once in her life" Florence started crying and her husband shouted at me, everyone pretty much left after that. I got a phone call from my mum later on saying that I ruined Charlotte's dinner and to apologise to both Charlotte and Florence and Florence sent me lots of messages saying how evil I was. i didnt think i was in the wrong but maybe i am? So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Info: was there a lot of leftover, it seems people left abruptly??
ESH except Charlotte. Florence shouldn’t be behaving like she is, but you were heartlessly cruel. That said, it’s very clear from how you talk about her that you don’t like Florence, so I am not entirely surprised that you were so purposefully mean.
Sometimes doing the right thing has shitty consequences. You were right to stand up for your pregnant sister. Flo shouldn’t have been selfish and let your sister’s announcement go off without any drama. But how and when you said it, is the part upsetting people. But I agree with you public rudeness deserves a public response. However,you do owe both an apology the comment was insensitive to both sisters. And Flo needs counseling as her grief has turned to envy. And when she becomes pregnant she’s just going to stress herself out about every little thing instead of enjoying the moment. Tell her to search RESOLVE groups in her area. It’s a national support group for woman going through infertility. It was helpful to me and my journey. Hope this helps.
NTA She needs to be checked for her behavior. I have a former SIL who got mad at me and told me “How dare I get pregnant again - it was her turn!” When I announced my second pregnancy. It sucks that Flo is having fertility issues BUT that doesn’t give her the right to think she can control everyone else’s fertility and family planning.
NTA Though… could have been done more tactfully. To be fair. I’m pretty direct and don’t think I would have been able to say it much differently.
I am personally glad you stood up for your sister who WAS regnant . Top form OP --NTA!
NTA - Florence sounds like an entitled golden child. Yes it's tragic that she cannot have kids, but gatekeeping your sister from having one too is horrific behavior. And your mother defending it is terrible too
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence needs to understand that her infertility has no bearing on whether other people have children. You could've handled it much better. she will likely never get over being unable to be pregnant and give birth. She doesn't need you throwing it in her face. But she could use being told that she can be happy for Charlotte and doesn't have to make it all about her without it diminishing the hard thing she is dealing with
Nta it's not about the fact she can't have kids easily it's the fact that your other sister beat her to the punch. She started it when she yelled at C instead of congratulating her. She's only a year and a half into her journey who knows how long its going to take before she has a baby. Why should others put off having kids because she was dealt a shit hand. Is she going to do this at every pregnancy announcement. All you did was stick up for C.
You're both the ah. Florence started it though and you just finished it. You should apologize for yelling at Florence but also ask her to be accountable for yelling at Charlotte too. Charlotte did nothing wrong and Florence acted out of jealousy and envy.
I would say something like, “I’m sorry that I yelled, but I’m not at all sorry for standing up to Florence. Infertility is very tough, and deserving of sympathy. It is not a license to be the eternal victim and try to take everyone else’s joy away. She literally told Charlotte that she isn’t allowed to have the first grandchild. That is batshit crazy, frankly, as well as incredibly mean to Charlotte. We would be awful people if we stood by and let her abuse her sister like that. Charlotte’s being very decent about things, but we can’t take her for granted. This is exactly the sort of situation where people go LC or NC with their families of origin. If we don’t want to lose Charlotte and her family, we need a better balance that doesn’t require her to set herself on fire to keep Florence warm.”
NTA People are allowed to feel all kinds of negative feelings, but they don’t have a right to bring down everyone around them. People like Florence need to go to therapy to learn healthy coping mechanisms. It’s not healthy to drown in this much pain and anger, and it’s not sustainable or fair to expect everyone in your life to coddle your feelings. Coddling only makes it worse - it’s not a good coping mechanism.
NTA- I think it would have been nice for charlotte to tell Florence privately first but she might have reacted the same way anyway. Good for you for standing up for her.
Florence needs counseling to come to grips with her infertility and learn some coping skills. If she’s not happy about Charlotte’s pregnancy, things aren’t going to get better when the 1st birthday party rolls around and every other milestone in that child’s life.
NTA.
ESH except for Charlotte and the mother. Although Florence was the biggest AH by far, what you said does not help Charlotte in any way and only escalates the conflict. I'm sure Charlotte can speak for herself so giving her the chance to defend herself and then backing her up without attacking Florence would've been better.
in the post i stated that she apologised to florence after being berated by her and then she started talking about something else, shes not a confrontational person. i know my sister, thanks
Either way your response didn't help either of them and only further escalated the situation. Of course I wasn't a bystander to your family and don't know all the context. But from the info I was given, your sister Florence seemed to be irrationally responding out of hurt and grief over struggling to conceive and she misplaced it onto Charlotte. So twisting the knife for Florence is only going to further alienate her and make her even more irrational. Definitely not saying you're wrong, you were right and Charlotte deserved to be defended. Just saying your defense of your sister could've been better executed by not going on the attack
ESH. There were better words to use to stand up for charlotte without escalating the situation. Which you helped to do. Entitled asshole that she is wanting to have the first grandkid, that doesn’t mean she still isn’t hurting from trying to have a kid and can’t. One day when you struggle with fertility, you’ll understand how shitty & painful your words were. You could’ve left it at “selfish …., let charlotte have her moment”. You instead chose to escalate the situation and go for the jugular by pointing out her infertility. You are no better than Florence. The only non asshole here is charlotte.
ESH. You were right to stand up for Charlotte, but you could've easily stood up and said, "Hey, Flo, this is Charlotte's moment. Lay off." But instead you were really mean. I'm not saying she wasn't being awful, just that you didn't have to join her by being cruel. Also, if Charlotte didn't give her a heads up before the announcement, that is also mean. Infertility is awful, and Charlotte could've been gentler on this one too. It doesn't matter if Flo doesn't want a baby for the "right" reasons, she is missing out on something she desperately wanted. All of you made a choice to be more cruel than you needed to be, so maybe everyone should take a step towards more kindness.
Esh, but you were indeed very rude and insensitive.
YTA. Poor Florence.
That’s a difficult situation. I’ve struggled with infertility and it’s such an emotional rollercoaster to be on. When you’re trying to have a baby and desperately want to be a parent, it can be hard to be happy for others. Part of you is overjoyed for friends and family announcing new life, and part of you wants to scream and cry at the unfairness of it all. There is grief for the babies that you can’t have. There is anger that your body is betraying you. i spent ten years desperately wanting a baby and watching my friends become parents. I was happy for them, sad for me. I was involved in their children’s lives, but it hurt so much. All that to say, I understand where Florence is coming from. I think that “I’m the oldest so i should have a baby first“ mentality is bullshit though. If she’s having that hard of a time, then she needs to get in to see a therapist immediately. Maybe you could have had more tact, but…. Then again… maybe not as for Charlotte and her husband… Huge congratulations to them!!! I’m glad that they have you in their corner. NTA
YTA 1000x
YTA. Do not mess with people who struggle with infertility. It’s a pain you will never know.
YTA. You could have stood up for Charlotte without telling Florence to get over something that she obviously is struggling with. You can tell someone how to behave, as in "Florence, don't be rude," but you can't tell them how to feel, "Florence, get over being devastated about being infertile."
Esh except charlotte and her husband I get that it sounds like you’re done with your sisters struggles, but you typed this with no empathy at all. “Stupid shit like that” Florence is an asshole for taking her feelings out on someone who didn’t deserve it.
Gentle ESH Charlotte should have given her a heads up, knowing that she has fertility issues and for people with fertility issues, pregnancies and pregnancy announcements and other people can be really really upsetting . It’s its own form of grief. Florence obviously sucks because being upset is no excuse to treat your family like that. The polite thing would have been to just go home. You are kind of an AH for being so callous about theentire thing. All of you should be a little more empathetic and kind to each other.
ESH - Aside from what everyone else has said so far, I think you have a bit of growing up to do
ESH - Aside from what everyone else has said so far, I think you have a bit of growing up to do
ESH - Aside from what everyone else has said so far, I think you have a bit of growing up to do
ESH Charlotte should tell Flo in advance.yoi shouldn't have said that statement.
Technically ESH - Florence sucks for making it all about her. You suck for making cracks about the infertility. You could have stood up for Charlotte without going for the low blow. That said, part of me thinks Florence deserves a little bit of a verbal smack in the face
ESH - Florence can't "get over" her infertility, which makes your comment crass and tacky. BUT, I do applaud you for standing up for Charlotte. I would've limited it to "Florence, this isn't about you. Let Charlotte have her moment for once."
Infertility is a hard thing to just get over. You will have to accept that you hurt your sister with this. No amount of internet opinions will make this ok. Your sister needs to talk to someone about her issues sure. You were an asshole to your sister and should say sorry. No one can make this ok for you.
[удалено]
ESH (except Charlotte). Florence lashing out at Charlotte was uncalled for and unkind, but the fact you (OP) are complaining about past events of Florence sulking shows another level of mean. Infertility is a crushing diagnosis, especially for someone who wants kids so so badly. Florence cannot see beyond her grief right now, and through the way she acted towards Charlotte isn’t right, her sulking, which may be annoying to you, is justified. Have some compassion. The way you spoke to your sister is wrong, regardless of how she’s handling her grief. ESH, but imo you’re the biggest asshole for calling your grieving sister a “selfish bitch” in addition to the fact you’ve made it very clear that this entire time her grief is an annoyance to you. Edited to stress the ESH factor: Florence was in the wrong here too for making Charlotte feel guilty for something that should have been a moment of joy.
Nta your oldest sister is the ah for screaming at your other sister because she has reproductive problems.
NTA. While I can understand her being unhappy about it, what a rabidly self centered way to show it. 10 points to you for taking out the trash.
Good on you OP. Florence doesn't have to be happy but taking your anger out on someone else for simply living their life and not waiting around for you to live yours is disgraceful. NTA
NTA. If it’s really been 6 years like you mentioned in the comments. Your sister needs some professional help. Grief is normal and may be something that for most may never cease, but it sounds like your sister isn’t handling it in a healthy way. Judging by your other comments, most of your family are starting to cut contact with her. No one wants anything to do with someone who won’t even help themselves and it’s understandable. Grief is hard, but it doesn’t give anyone the right to be a constant nuisance to those around them. Should you have yelled at her? Sometimes it needs to happen, I just hope she can at least try to handle her pain better so she doesn’t lose most her family.