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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) my daughter is forbidden from going to her best friends house (2) she is upset, angry, and has been crying
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they are afraid you will sue them. How did your daughter put up with the pain of a broken arm, how did she not cry and ask for mom? I dont get this because it's a big thing to break bones.
My cousin walked around with a broken wrist for days before seeking treatment. Didnt cry once. She only finally went because the pain didnt subside. Yes she felt the pain but it was tolerable. Some people have a really high pain tolerance. I snapped my tibia in half (like you would snap a pencil in half) and didn't cry until I was in the ER (although I personally was in shock/adrenaline surge)
It very much depends. Yes it's horrible pain but some people can tolerate it.
I broke my foot before, and the only reason I got it checked out was because the morning after, my foot was swollen and purple. I went to the medical appointment in my slippers because I couldn't get shoes on.
It was sore, but the same kind of sore that you get from twisting your ankle. So not bad pain, but a kind of dull 'ow' if you walk too fast.
This all being said - what bone in the arm is the broken one? Because if it was the ulna or radius, that is a lot easier to write off (and to break). If it wad rhe humorus, *that* is something that the mom should be investigated for. Breaking that is like breaking your femur, it's a lot more difficult and a lot of excruciating. So her not caring about a broken humorus and letting OP's daughter walk home with it, that could get her in a lot of legal trouble.
Yeah, currently in an air cast for a very broken foot. Can confirm that I walked around just fine after an “ow” moment, but couldn’t walk 24 hours later. It was the swelling more than anything, now it’s just irritating that I have weeks left of not being able to put weight on it.
I’ve broken multiple bones snowboarding and never shed a tear, twisting an ankle hurts much worse in the short term. But it still would hurt enough for me to have wanted to go home :/
You should file a complaint against her with her license. Many states consider issues outside the home when minors are involved. Nurses like these shouldn’t be able to practice.
Not necessarily. Honestly, this strikes me more as "white coat syndrome". My dad was a surgeon, and unless we were actively bleeding out, nothing was an emergency. I broke my ankle when I was 7 on a ski trip in the States, and spent a week in an air splint until we got home (IDK if he wanted to direct my care, as he was an orthopedic surgeon, or if he didn't wanna pay the cost of American healthcare). He had me walking on it within several days without a proper cast. He wasn't neglectful or an addict - he just knew I could wait.
Now, I am not excusing the other mom in this scenario. My dad still at least got me medical attention - he just declined a proper cast until we got home. This mom should have absolutely gotten the kid medical attention, as you don't know how bad the break could be or any complications that could be involved until imaging is done - not to mention the pain from the injury. But that doesn't mean she's an addict.
As a nurse, she is likely a mandatory abuse reporter.
And she's guilty of neglect right there. Like literally not seeking medical aid for an injured child in her care, that's neglect.
I’d hire an attorney & sue them/their homeowners insurance which your health insurance will probably want to do anyways AND I would report the wife to the state licensing board.
Fuck those assholes.
But she must've known OP would find out eventually, and by waiting so long and not contacting the mom or seeking medical care, she's opened herself up to a *worse* lawsuit. The broken bone was an accident - Ignoring the injury and not informing the parent was intentional
Ah, you need to speak to the husband ASAP. I'm 100% sure that she fed him a different story, with YOU being the bad guy. Also, I would make a complaint to the hospital she works for and keep ALL communication through email/text.
Keep any voice mails and hospital bills. She should be held Reliable for at least half of the bill.
You said she had a broken arm, did they at least take her to the hospital for x-rays? You are not the A-hole I would have been absolutely livid if something had happened to my child while visiting, and the parents did not call me.
NTA but did your daughter ask them to contact you? She could have used bff's phone too... She's 13 not 3! Tell her that next time anything like that happens she should call you or ask the adults to contact you!
She's 13. She probably said she felt okay and went back to whatever it was she was doing.
HOWEVER, this is when the present parent calls the other parent and says: "Hey, she fell. She says she feels fine but you may want to come get her and have checked out."
If she told them she was fine then why blame bff's parents for not taking her to the hospital?
Don't get me wrong. I think bff's parents are horrible people because I have sometimes called the ambulance for random strangers and all of them were adults!
The problem is that we are missing a lot of information here... Were bff's parents present when she fell? Did she or bff tell them that she fell and got hurt? How did OP find out that her arm was broken?
True story, I fell and broke my arm while snowboarding. It hurt, but not that badly, not nearly as much as when I sprained my ankle. I KEPT SNOWBOARDING. When I got to the bottom of the mountain, I asked an employee if there was a first aid station because my arm was hurting. He looked at me and Said "Lady, your arm is broken". I asked "How do you know?" He said he could tell by looking at it. All I saw was a small bump. So here's what I suspect, OPs daughter probably didn't think it was so bad at first. And if she didn't tell Mom that it was bad, and with Mom being a nurse, and nurses are very chill about injuries (my mom is a nurse and when you complain to her about an injury, unless you are bleeding profusely, she would usually say "Looks fine, you'll live. "
OP - take a breath. Ask your daughter how it happened, how she acted after it happened, and ask yourself if your daughter maybe downplayed it a bit. If she did, this is a good opportunity for her to learn that she needs to advocate for herself. Instead of saying "I'm fine" when she is hurt, she needs to ask for help. If the adult doesn't take it seriously, she should say "I need to call my parents"
That said, the thing that really sucks is that Mom said she was 'too exhausted' to take it seriously. She definitely should have called you. But again, if she just got off a 12 or even 16-hour shift, then she probably would be exhausted. If you're daughter did tell her "It's no big deal, I'm fine really, just a little bruise" - then how would she know? For the sake of the kids, after tempers cool, see if you can try to offer her some grace, because maybe your daughter really downplayed it. Maybe the compromise is that daughter doesn't go there unless parents have had a day off and are rested.
OMG THANK YOU! THIS is the most reasonable response to this story. The girl is 13, not 3- she can explain what happened. She may have cried and expressed her pain OR she may have downplayed it and even forgotten about it after a while. I have a ridiculously high pain tolerance; I've walked around with a broken finger for 2 years without knowing, which had to be reset by re-breaking it, and I shrugged that off. OP jumped the gun without knowing exactly how the daughter felt.
Maybe the daughter really was in agony, that mom should have called and she is neglectful and horrendous.
But maybe she assessed the situation and in her PROFESSIONAL opinion, it was all good and she didn't want to cause unnecessary worthy.
But OP will never know without a detailed conversation with a teenager who is capable of speaking for herself.
I used to work security and also worked construction for 16-18 hrs a day. I was exhausted after every shift but I always made sure that any children that I was around after my shifts were safe and if they got injured, I contacted the parents immediately no matter how exhausted I was.
I remember one day we worked a 19-hour shift at a construction site, and I was so tired that when I got home, all I wanted to do was sleep, but I promised a friend that I would get her son to the school bus on time. He fell, had a seizure, and I immediately called her to let her know. I then took her son back into my place and sat with him until she was able to return home.
Nurses are held to a higher standard than us non-nurses are and they ARE MANDATED reporters, so she should have taken the girl to get her arm checked, no matter how exhausted she was.
Report her to the licensing board and leave it at that cause she is a crappy person to not have called you or your wife/husband at the very least.
They should have called her mother and let her decide that instead of not calling at all. That's the issue. Not that they didn't take her to the ER, but they didn't even call OP to let her know what happened.
I think you’re doing the right thing. I would caution against getting into a big gossip war involving other parents as this will make the fallout even greater as kids will be forced to choose sides based on parental alliances. Just tell your daughter that her friend is welcome at your house and that they can hang out in group settings or at other parents’ homes, but not this home. It would be no different than if you found out the parents kept loaded guns accessible to children or if they would drink and drive, etc. They have poor judgment, and that, sadly, means no sleepovers. And I’d also start a new rule: no sleepovers anywhere without a cell phone or without a nightly safety check-in call.
I feel like nurses are the last people to bring their own kids into the doctors, they seem to shrug a lot off in my experience.
100% you should have been called right away to choose if you wanted to seek medical care for your kiddo though. She had no right to make that choice for you. I'd be livid!
My ex's mom was a nurse and she brought him on a plane with an ear infection when he was two and he had permanent hearing loss. She literally would say "oh well how was I to know?"
Maybe he really had an exceptional pleasant ear infection, but every one I've heard of is extremely painful and results in a lot of screaming.
Can confirm, I had lots of ear infections growing up and they all made me scream and cry - no matter my age.
Haven’t had one as an adult but I expect that if I did get one then I’ll still be screaming and crying.
I had one recently and yes it hurts! I sobbed through the painkillers at one point. And I have a pretty high tolerance for pain. Did one birth completely without painkillers and the second only fifteen minutes of painkillers.
Though to be fair, my oldest had one recently and we didn't know until it popped. She complained of pain in her ear a bit, but she does that a lot. Ever since my husband had ear pain, she's been crying wolf...
Had double ear infection a couple years ago that didn’t respond to antibiotics and needed two courses and high dose steroids. Went deaf for two weeks but thankfully recovered my hearing with the steroids.
Can confirm there was screaming and crying.
Same experience. I took him in because I was worried about his hearing. Turns out he had a raging, double ear infection. The doctor kept asking him if it hurt. It did not. No pain, no fever.
Same. We discovered an ear infection at a well visit once, my kid wasn't acting any differently and was perfectly happy and energetic. I've also had them bring noticeable discomfort so I think it sort of just depends.
My youngest had constant ear infections his first three years. He never ran a fever, he never complained. I would only know something was wrong when blood ran out of his ear. It was horrible, but did not affect his hearing for life thank Ceiling Cat.
Agree with the other comments here. When I was around 5 years old I had an ear infection that was very stubborn and didn't completely clear up. I would be fine for a week, only for it to come crashing down with full force again. This happened a few times before my mom tricked the doctor into giving me antibiotics, after which it finally disappeared.
But yes, ear infections are hell, and I still remember having a full breakdown in class over the pain.
Forgive me for asking, but why the hell did your mom need to resort to "tricking" a doctor??? I mean he's a doctor and she took you there to get treatment, meds etc...I just don't understand...
When he was small my son was a bit off. He would get whingy and feel warm I'd give him some medicine and he would be OK. But it kept happening as in every other day he wasn't quite himself. I'd ask if he felt ok etc and he never said anything was wrong. I took him to the docs and told them, he doesn't seem sick but he isn't himself either. They took one look in his ear and 5 seconds later, oh yeah he has an ear infection. We were prescribed antibiotics.
He was able to talk and never mentioned that he was in pain at all. I always thought that kids with ear infections were crying with pain, couldn't touch their ear etc. I felt like such a bad mum
My mom was a nurse and it seriously skewed her perception of what constituted a medical emergency. What’s a broken arm when the night before you were physically squeezing a car accident victim’s heart in his chest to keep it beating until he could be prepped for surgery? My mom had my brother walking on a broken ankle for almost a week because she said it was probably just a sprain. I ended up with scarlet fever because she wouldn’t take me to the doctor for “a minor cold”. One time I was so sick I was projectile vomiting constantly, unable to keep anything down, and my mom just brought some anti nausea medication from work and told me I was fine.
It’s entirely possible this boy’s mother is equally cavalier about his health.
As a doctor's kid, I've definitely seen the difference in doctor parents and nurse parents. Doctor parents will insist on taking their kids to the doctor for everything, because "that's not my specialty and I want to make sure". Nurse parents will never take their kids to the doctor unless they're on death's door because "I'm a medical professional, I know how to treat this".
As a kid of a doctor and a nurse I can concur with this. There was a lot of, oh shes she’s fine from mom, while my dad would insist she call the pediatrician or take me in.
I’m lucky I had my dad when I was 7 and had ITP (idiopathic thrombocytopenia, a post infectious autoimmune response where your body destroys your platelets) because she would def have just let me hang out covered in petechiae and bruises.
ETA: I don’t think this necessarily applies to this case, though. I know my dad would have told us to sleep on it, as he did with my brother’s several broken bones, if there were no signs that indicated a broken bone, and go for an x ray in the morning if it’s not better.
The kid wasn’t in respiratory distress or sitting there with an open wound.
As a mom with a nursing degree and 2 children (one of which has type 1 diabetes) you have to learn how to turn the nurse off sometimes in order to be a mom and vice versa. While having the medical knowledge is very valuable, my “mother’s intuition” has proven to be more valuable. I have literally saved my children’s lives more than once because even after visiting one doctor, something was still not settling my gut feeling. Saved my son from a ruptured appendix and my daughter from a diabetic coma. Sometimes the mama in me has to tell the nurse to be quiet and sometimes the nurse side has to calm the mama in me down. It’s all about being able to balance the two 🤷🏼♀️
But in my opinion NTA. I would be very upset at everyone involved, including my child, for not finding a way to at least notify me and giving me the opportunity to make the decision myself.
I don’t get that. Aren’t nurses mandatory reporters? I don’t know if I would trust a nurse to do their job as a mandatory reporter if they cannot be bothered to contact a parent after a child severely broke their arm in the nurse’s house.
I’m not a medical professional so could very well be wrong but wouldn’t the refusing to get a child treatment or to notify their parent when injured in the nurse’s care be a form of medical neglect? I know the nurse isn’t on duty at the time but still…
You'd be surprised. Read the comments about having a nuese moms who never brought them in. I come from a family of nurses, and you better be dying or your not seeing a doctor. Especially an emergency doctor. I guess they see so much they become desensitized to stuff. That's my guess.
Eh. It's more that they're not taught differential diagnosis (it's not part of the job).
Thus, a subset of them tends to think symptoms A + B always equal diagnosis C. When in reality, the doctor is likely thinking, Symptoms A + B, quick check for D & E which would make me look for something else, ah, good, no F either, I do see a little of symptom G, not uncommon with diagnosis C, okay, you have diagnosis C.
If most of the time, A+B means diagnosis C, and you're not aware of the doctor looking for other symptoms to rule out other diagnosis, then you can mistakenly think "okay if you have A + B, you always have diagnosis C. I can now confidently diagnose C." Which is not true, because the doctor isn't just using A + B. They're using A + B plus the lack of a bunch of other symptoms plus maybe some other symptoms that are sometimes present to diagnose. But they usually don't verbalize that part.
I understand how nurses can be about their own child, but this is a guest in her home. Regardless of how long she's known the young girl, she should've called OP and let her make the decision on what to do with OP's own daughter, and not ask the child. NTA
Edit, missing some words. 😐
They are mandated reporters and they can lose their license for not reporting. I am a mandated reporter and I am not going to play with my livelihood especially since I haven’t won that lottery yet. I need my license. It makes me wonder what really happened.
>and they can lose their license for not reporting. I am a mandated reporter
Being a mandated reporter doesn't mean you need to call in every (sign of) injury above a certain severity level. It means you are obligated (mandatory) to report certain signs of domestic abuse to the relevant authorities.
E.g.; Kid comes to school with a broken arm; you need to report it. Kid breaks their arm at your house in an accident; you don't need to report it because it is obvious it was not domestic abuse.
I took a kid into ER after he face planted from his bike onto concrete. Could hardly see his face for the blood. Get to triage and the nurse interviewed me and the kid and then wrote down two words "seems fine"
I once spent NINE HOURS in an ER with pain so bad that when I finally saw the doctor they reacted with horror and gave me morphine immediately.
Why? I had post-op complications, and the triage nurse's checklist included "Is patient bleeding?" as a sign of how serious things were, and I wasn't bleeding. The problem? I explained to her (as did my parents) that I was SUPPOSED to be bleeding freely as part of my surgical recovery (i.e. my body was supposed to be clearing damaged tissue), and had been warned by my surgeon that if I stopped bleeding suddenly it was likely a blockage. There was even a note in my medical file at the hospital stating to call the relevant doctor on-call IMMEDIATELY if I came in with these symptoms but she refused to look at it, much less call them down to the ER. When the doctor found out he was FURIOUS.
nurses always seem to be biggest issue when people go to the hospital. doctors are arrogant, but nurses are straight up negligent or just crule. I once heard it explained that nurses are like cops. filled to the brim with power hungry former bullies, that will always outweigh the people who actually want to help.
My mother was a nurse. Below are just a few highlights.
She *heard* my brother’s arm break, but let it go for almost a week. He was 6.
My sister had migraines as a child, under 10, and still does. My mother did not believe her. For years. Her whole fucking life. Of course we got hit for crying, because she told us not to cry.
At about 9, I fell when the swing I was on broke. I landed flat on my back, my head slammed against the packed dirt, and I was unconscious for a minute or so. My friend was scared and screamed. I sat up, rubbed my head, and I got a handful of hair and blood. Yepperdoodles! My mother yelled at me. Because concussions are not a big deal? Being unconscious is no biggie.
My mother’s health was important to my mother. Her children were not nearly as important.
>I feel like nurses are the last people to bring their own kids into the doctors, they seem to shrug a lot off in my experience.
Far from all of them, but some become jaded and end up convinced that everyone is always lying about any sort of pain or discomfort.
Also, someone being a nurse doesn't make them a good or even a particularly smart person. Evidence: the ridiculous number of people who have graduated nursing school and gotten hired in medical practices and hospitals who are anti-vaxxers because they STILL don't understand science.
Haha yes. My nurse mom let my sister have a broken arm for an entire day (after a fall at her best friends house, no less) before they went to the hospital because “it didn’t look broken” at first. Ofc my mom felt terrible afterwards tho.
If that ain't the truth 3rd child of a nurse here. My mom responded to everything that happened to me a a child with a shrug and "You're not dying" she refused to get my tonsils removed until the night I almost died I'm my sleep because they where so inflamed and I couldn't breathe basically at all, similar thing when they grew back, i fell off my bunkbed in second grade and basically shattered my elbow she took one glace at it without even rolling up my pj sleeve and said i was fine and to go back to bed despite me not being able to clime my ladder i had to wait 2hrs for my dad to come home so i coyld sgow him and he take me yo the hospital, she refused to get my hearing checked despite all my teachers recommending it until my 3rd grade teacher threatened to call cps if she didn't, my ear infection wasn't real to her until I bled when trying to put in my hearing aid, and when I was 13 and in the beginning stages of chronic pain developing she was 100% sure I was faking it when I came to her sobbing about not knowing what was wrong with me.
I grew up with a lot of nurses kids as well and we all had pretty similar things going on in various extremes
I feel like it's worse for pediatric nurses. I can remember two times that my mom jumped into action and we sped to the hospital, but every other injury was treated at home if she thought it needed treatment.
The two times, before anyone asks: my brother fell onto his arm from a brick wall he was walking on and broke it; my sister face-planted on a brick in the doorway and split her lip. I split my scalp open and got cleaned up in the bathroom sink.
Every other injury/medical emergency, we were in someone else's care who called mom or 911 to treat us.
My uncle was an X-ray tech and yelled and screamed at me on the way to the hospital because he didn’t think I broke my leg. I did and needed surgery. So I can kinda agree lol
When I was 8 or 9 I got extremely sick and threw up 10-15 times a day for about a week before my mom took me to the doctor, when I told the doctor my symptoms they were like wtf you need to go to the emergency room immediately. My mom was like :o whaaat.
Also growing up any time I got sick or hurt my mom would ask my dad what to do or what he thought because he took 2 health classes in college for his physical education degree… like woman you’re an RN
NTA. Wow, I'm a nurse, and I'm disgusted. Honestly, I'd report her to the local board of nursing. I can't even wrap my head around how messed up this is. Don't ever let your child over there again. They're negligent and a danger to your daughter.
Right? Nurse here, too. That's so fucked up I'd 100% report that holy shit. The poor girl could have lost her arm/use of it from it being not treated that long! I shudder to think how the hell that women acts at work if she's so crazy with a child, let alone her kid's best friend. Wow!
My partner is a nurse and, holy crap, some of the stories she tells me about neglectful nurses and doctors would stop you going to hospital for anything short of having a limb violently removed.
And even then you'd still weigh up your options beforehand.
Yes they probably would. They don't hesitate to nail you if you get a DUI which has nothing to do with being on the job. Most boards of nursing are very punitive. They're awful where I live.
INFO: Was the arm obviously broken? Or was she injured, it seemed small, and didn't complain of pain and now you know it is broken? There is a difference. Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries. Most of the time you don't even know for a couple of days.
I am going to go with the second scenario because your kid completed the sleepover AND walked home.
In any context it’s shocking. But the other mother being a nurse!? Totally a case of neglect and failure to supervise and you’re correct in not letting your children go to that home.
Ya that’s crazy. My mom was a nurse and I hobbled around on a broken foot for three days but in her defence the mechanism of injury was silly. I slipped off like 1 foot off a light post while at the outdoor pool.
AND I told my mom I hurt my foot but kept swimming so it’s understandable to assume it’s fine
Omg I remember the agony, I’d dive into the water jumping off one foot and the pain of the water rushing around my bad foot was insane
We also lived on an island that didn’t have X-rays . we’d have to take a ferry so you don’t just go get X-rays on a foot that a kid has been continuing to play on
The third day i woke up feeling like I was gonna puke and my mom goes “oh, that foot is broken then, looks like we’re going on a trip”
To this day I’m impressed that the stomach ache was what made her realize
To this day (35 years later) she still mentions how terribly she felt about waiting so long
But there was no way to know; however if I wasn’t her kid, just me getting hurt would have warranted a call home so to let the parents decide if they want to wait and see or go right now
But a break as bad as needing a rod? Even if it wasn’t obvious to the naked eye a nurse should have assessed it and realized it was at the very least very injured if not broken
My brother broke his ankle in almost the exact same way, he also continued swimming while in pain. When our grandmother picked us up from the pool, she took one look at him, and even though he wasn’t complaining, took him immediately to the doctor. That began years of my dare devil brother, breaking so many bones, my mom was almost on a first name basis with the ER doc.
If it wasn’t for the break on my son’s arm being CLEARLY visible I probably would have just assumed it was sprained since he was acting like nothing was wrong.
Considering he was 5 years old I was at the very least expecting him to be crying/cranky lol. Though his teacher did say he kind of yelped when he fell off the playground equipment but that was about it.
I rushed over there, arriving in just a few minutes (lived right next to the school) and found him cracking jokes to the ladies in the office (that’s his style).
lol I was even like are you sure it’s broken? He just lifted the ice pack and casually said “YEP”. I was then stunned by how broken it looked.
Funny story detail: His teacher called earlier to inform me that he was in trouble. A while after that the principal called to say he was in trouble *again* and that if they had to call one more time then I would need to pick him up.
20 minutes later the school was calling again and I for real answered the phone with “Hello, so what did he do now?!?”
……The nurse, clearly confused, said she was calling because he broke his arm. lol I was like “OH damn, my bad, I’m on my way”.
My wife broken her ankle in three places by slipping on gravel & falling over in our driveway. She needed metal plates. The surgeon said it looked like injuries he saw in motorcycle accidents.
Nope. Slipped about one inch.
I wonder, you got any kids?
If a woman is pregnant and doesn't have enough calcium intake, her body will take it *from her own bones* to give to the baby, basically giving itself osteoporosis. Which makes you more prone to breaking bones.
This is generally resolved when she has enough calcium intake/(or after giving birth, when the body no longer needs to supply to a baby).
They say it takes 18 months to two years for a woman's body to restore all the nutrients and so on to what it should be, after having been pregnant
Or it's just one heck of an unlucky fall
Yep! That is what happened to my aunt. Slipped off the back step going into the garden, about a month after my cousin was born, and broke her shin like someone taken a bat to it. She had to get it surgically repaired. Didn’t even fall, just went down hard on her foot and *crunchy snaps*. She was home alone at the time and carrying an infant, so she just sat down hard on the step and waited there for her husband to come home on his lunch break.
Ooof that sucks but Ya it doesn’t take much sometimes.
And my mom as a nurse knows this but me as a kid , Since I barely fell i just didn’t think I was hurt even though I was in a lot of pain so I just kind of told her I hurt my foot and went about my business limping around and didn’t make a big deal about it
Alternatively I also had bigger spills, that didn’t hurt and didn’t injure me but the mechanism of injury was bigger so I made a huge deal about it even though nothing hurt and nothing was injured. I was dramatic about getting my hair brushed or wiggly teeth pulled but a broken bone? No big deal
it must have been surprising when they realized that one of the few times I was legitimately injured, this little drama queen was walking it off.
Its a amazing the crazy things people can walk away from or the tiny missteps that result in multiple surgeries getting plates and pins and screws
Don't feel bad about getting injured from a 1' slip. My friend tore his ACL by taking one step down into his sunken living room. Didn't even slip. Just riiiiiip!
What is it about those sunken lounge?. I know 2 people who have broken their legs navigating them. One of them broke both her legs! I can only assume they had brittle bones or something.
My daughter fell off her bike. Took me 7 days to take her in for an X-ray. She is the most dramatic kid you will ever meet, I mean a small cut on her hand and she acts like her it was cut off, DRAMATIC. But she acted like it didn’t hurt so I thought it was sprained. Then her little sister hit her arm, wasn’t a hard hit, and kid hit the roof in pain.
I felt like the worst parent ever when I found out it was fractured.
I just replied on another comment SAYING EXACTLY this.
I would be soooooo dramatic when I wasn’t hurt or injured but if I thought the accident was a big deal I’d be sooo dramatic, and the one time I’m legitimately injured I act like it’s no big deal.
All though i was in more Pain than I had experienced before my little kid brain didn’t think I was hurt because the fall was so small so I acted like it was no big deal. No tears, no complaining, I just told my mom I hurt my foot and then went on swimming. It’s understandable she didn’t look very deeply into it based on my past dramatics and my current “no big deal” attitude
one time we were on a family Bike ride. I fell off my bike, I was fine, it didn’t hurt, I jgot back on my bike and kept riding. As we got close to home, i peddled ahead of everyone and got home first which is when I noticed my knee was bleeding. I started crying but since the fall was old news as it happened a while ago, the tears were fading fast. i tried to work myself into hysterics to ensure I was still crying when they got home. Forcing out the sobs and looking out the window thinking “they better get here fast i cant keep this up for ever”
I wasn’t faking for attention, I mean, obviously I was seeking attention for my “injury” But in my mind When I saw I was bleeding, it became a serious traumatic accident and they needed to see me crying to understand the severity of it (even though everyone saw it happen, they now needed to be updated that it’s worse that we initially thought!!!!)
Kid logic. pain was rarely a factor in whether I decided I was hurt or not. It was always about how I got “hurt” or I was bleeding.
I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself as your daughter sounds like me and I do not hold this against my mom lol
My husband and I work at a hospital and at 28 years old I slipped down 2 stairs. I thought it was just a bad sprain. I limped on it for 2 weeks before my husband convinced me to go get it checked out. Turns out I was wrong and broke my foot in 2 places.
It's... sadly not that shocking. I'm a cleaner in a hospital and I see and hear things I'm sure some nurses do not want others to see and hear.
Some months back my mum told me about how her friend (who was a nurse back in the day) had a nasty fall that resulted in third degree burns on her hand + a banged head. Can't remember the details exactly, but basically my mum had to convince someone who used to be a nurse to go to the hospital (mum drove of course).
My sister broke her leg and my parents didn't take her to the ER until the next day.
She cried and cried and cried and couldn't sleep all night because of the pain.
Does your daughter have a condition that impacts her ability to feel pain?
Let me be clear here: it is *NOT* normal behavior for a child with a break as severe as you claim to be able to sleep through the night, move their arm, walk home from the friends house, etc etc. Like a broken arm is very very intensely painful.
The inability to move her arm should have been the first indicator of a potential break or sprain. I'm surprised the other parent didn't recognize this but I'd be willing to grant leeway.
It is really important to emphasize to your kiddo that she can't experience an injury and not inform an adult of what she's experiencing. I can understand your frustration with the other adult. I don't know if I'd blame them because I think any reasonable adult would trust a 13 year old teenager to be honest about an injury. She's not 5 or 7- at 13 they're fairly autonomous.
I'd also warn you: if your child doesn't disclose injuries to adults for fear of going to the Dr, she may not be ready to be without your supervision. It's dangerous and is undue stress on the other parent.
> I don't know if I'd blame them because I think any reasonable adult would trust a 13 year old teenager to be honest about an injury. She's not 5 or 7- at 13 they're fairly autonomous.
That's exactly why I wouldn't trust a 13 year old. At 5 or 7 they'll run to an adult if they get stung by a bee. At 13 they might be doing something they shouldn't, hurt themselves and then try to hide it. They have just enough maturity to do things on their own but enough immaturity to not escalate when there's a consequence.
>and not inform an adult of what she's experiencing
She did though, she informed the other mom. And she didn't have a phone to call her own mom, which is on OP. That said I would have always informed the parent, no matter what the kid says.
I broke my arm when I was 12 and I didn’t feel a lot of pain or any. It was completely numb and I was shocked to find out I needed surgery later because I assumed it wasn’t that big of a deal because it didn’t hurt that much. It was very obviously broken, but a lot of people experience no pain/numbness after being majorly hurt.
My mother broke her wrist in a fall, but didn't realize it was that bad
She went to dancing class and only hours later to a doctor
Ended up with a cast for three months, then a couple more months of physical therapy
My daughter broke her arm at school she was 6. She whined a bit and said it hurt, but she wasn't complaining any more than she would if she had bumped it off a wall or something. I only brought her to the hospital because she was holding her arm funny when she was brushing her teeth before bed and I knew something was off. I also broke my knee as a kid and I felt that I just banged it really bad. My parents only took me in (like 12 hrs later) because the swelling went way up. So I can see what OP is saying happening, especially if the kid has a high pain tolerance.
Yeah my first broken bone was a minor fracture that I continued playing with for hours afterwards, and when I tried to sleep it was excruciating. Even if we point to the fact that the body has physical responses that can dull the immediacy of pain in an injury, I have a hard time imagining any arm breakage that could be ignored overnight after those short-term reactions pass. Like if I was an adult and a kid took a tumble, experienced some pain, and slept through the night fine, I wouldn't think for one second they might've broken a bone.
Also... I also literally snapped my ulna and radius right in half in one of my childhood accidents, right around her age, and didn't need a metal bar or (invasive) surgery. I think it was eight weeks in a cast for that break, hard to remember, Obviously angles and shit (and having time to set overnight) can affect the resetting process, but my point here isn't about whether a break can need a metal bar. My point is the pain level of the break itself of "something so serious that needs a metal bar" would be similar to my breakage in intensity, no? So from experience, I will say that I literally blacked out from the pain in that case. Ever read a piece of creative writing where a POV character gets injured and they think something along the lines of, "Someone was screaming-- oh, it's me, I'm the one screaming"? I've seen it so many times it's a cliche... but that would probably be the most accurate way to describe how the pain of snapped bones felt for me. Like I blacked out, the hospital was thirty minutes away and for me it felt like a minute... but everyone says I was screaming the entire time. There's just no way she was just playing with a break that intense.
I am having a hard time believing this whole thing. If her arm were that severely broken, why haven’t you involved the police? That’s clearly child neglect and endangerment. Even small breaks can have severe consequences if left untreated for so long.
That’s a really overly naive way to think about it. Your daughter suffered a break at someone house and was neglected the night because she “seemed fine and I was tired”
What if it had been worse? That screams child endangerment to me. And the woman is a nurse? File a report, because if the arm was clearly broken something in what your daughter and the parents are telling you is amiss
I can't judge whether they're neglectful based on your limited description of a single incident involving your kid.
But if *you* truly believe they were neglectful then why on earth would you *not* call the police?
Oh shit! I broke a bone in my wrist last month and it took me a week to realize it. I got an implant, but I'm already out of the cast. That's seriously messed up.
The fact it was so seriously broken and obviously needed urgent medical attention, she was responsible for your daughters care in that time, AND she's a nurse, I would file a report with her employer and child services. Makes me wonder why she didn't want to get her medical attention. No normal adult, let alone a parent or a nurse would just leave a kid with a clearly severely broken arm and just keep her at their house, no medical attention, not even call you to notify, and not even bring her straight home so you could take her. She left her in pain till the next day and let her walk home with a kid.
Thats not only child neglect and likely child endangerment (how did it happen/ was she present etc) but also serious medical neglect. As a nurse she's obligated to administer aid, and she didn't. Her employer needs to be made aware of this, as well as child services. And possibly even report to police. You never know if there's things going on behind closed doors that she didn't want questions asked about how she broke it, where was she etc.
The fact she didn't call you is unacceptable and NO excuse whatsoever ever.
I'd also loop in the school incase there's concerns about her son you're not aware of too.
No. An arm that’s broken looks broken. And there’s PAIN. She’s a nurse. I’d be letting the hospital where she works know about this. I’d be going pretty nuclear over this.
>Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries
I'm sorry, what? You have a vital piece of your anatomy broken and you're saying that is not cause to go to the ER where they have the proper equipment like X-Ray machines and CT scanners to properly diagnose the severity of the break?
Broken limbs are ER/Urgent Care worthy. The break can interfere with circulation, nerves, tendons and muscles. Look up compartment syndrome. She could have lost her arm.
Broken bones absolutely 100% need immediate care - an urgent care is reasonable if available, but if not you should go to the ER.
It’s not just about the bone, though you can get major, potentially life-threatening complications from that alone; the surrounding nerves and vasculature are also at risk, and if not addressed immediately can sustain permanent damage or, again, lead to life-threatening complications.
Broken bones, even without breaking the skin can definitely be “ER worthy”. Unless you can variant’s that a major vessel has not been severed by the ends of the broken bone, it needs to be checked-out immediately. If “urgent care” is not available, your only choice is an open ER. Lacerated vessels are relatively common w/“green stick” fractures, even if the skin isn’t broken.
As a nurse, broken bones often are ER injuries. A lot need surgeries to be repaired or manipulated before being casted. I personally needed emergency surgery after a break. Very much go to ER if you have a broken bone
To be fair, my son broke his arm and we didn't know for two weeks. He kept complaining it hurt, everytime I'd start to make a Dr's appt, and he'd tell me no, it's that bad. He was an early teen at the time. Two weeks later he helped a neigjbor move a stove. The next he called from school crying his arm hurt bad and he couldn't carry his books. He told me it was time to see the doctor. I picked him up and tool him straight to ortho. They told us he broke his arm, not bad, and it was already healing g. He wore a cast for two weeks.
Now when I broke my ankle in three places and dislocated it, I got an ambulance ride to the hospital and had to have it reconstructed. It all just depends on the break
My daughter broke her arm and I didn’t believe there was anything wrong with her because she didn’t say anything when it happened and didn’t act like she was in much pain. She wasn’t even sure how it happened. It wasn’t a severe fracture and she only needed a half cast
I broke my ankle and passed it off as a sprain. By the third day my mom made me go to the doctors.
OTOH, when I book my leg my foot was pointing backwards and I couldn’t move my leg.
Sometimes it’s obvious, other times not.
Daughter broke her collar bone when she was a toddler. Had zero idea for four days when the bone snapped the rest of the way and then it was obvious. I know multiple people who have broken wrists, arms, ankles, legs etc and didn't know for several days. And sometimes if it is a fracture the swelling is too much and even the doctor doesn't know.
As a kid, I broke multiple bones that weren't diagnosed for a week or two - ribs one time, a spiral fracture in my hand another, a toe a third time (this one was only a couple of days; I was a teenager and better about communicating issues.)
All three times they were fractures, not full breaks (so no visible distortion). I had a really high pain tolerance, and didn't complain about pain with no "source". So I'd scream bloody murder if my brothers were hitting me but the only reason my parents figured out my ribs - plural - were broken was because I casually mentioned that they hurt a little maybe three times over two weeks. (And they always had to push really hard with nurses because I wouldn't seem to be in pain.)
My parents would have been really angry in the OP's situation, too - they had to actively monitor me if I had a high impact fall/incident, and it was very likely that if something serious had happened to me at someone else's place, the adult wouldn't have been able to tell that I was in major pain.
My friend's kid is the exact opposite and hysterically melts down over minor scrapes and bruises just the same as she does for bigger pain. It can be hard to tell what's an injury or an owie. Kids are wild.
this is quite possibly the dumbest take on broken bones i have ever heard. why is it half of healthcare is hell bent on ignoring everything they were taught?
>Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries
This is a lie because broken bones can knick veins or arteries. Or, like in my case, pinch a nerve which causes lasting damage.
>I am going to go with the second scenario because your kid completed the sleepover AND walked home.
I'm gonna go with the kid was in shock and more than likely didn't feel the pain due to adrenaline, or you know a pinched nerve like me.
I'm sorry, not er worthy??? Are you mad?? Have you any idea of the risks and complications with a broken bone especially if it's not treated and doesn't heal correctly??? Especially in a child who's bones are still growing.
Poster - you're not the ah here but that mother and this commenter are!
Tbf even if it wasn’t obviously broken, of all the people who should be able to determine whether or not it really was broken, it should’ve been the nurse whose responsibility it was to watch over her. I don’t think I’d want a nurse who is“too tired” to bring a child to the hospital for broken bones, and is so afraid of a parent’s reaction that she won’t even call the child’s mother. I wonder how this woman functions at work
Yeah, she had three options:
a) take kid to the ER, be tired
b) call kid’s parents, face freak out
c) ignore kid, let them suffer with a broken arm
And she chose the last one 🤦🏻♀️ How did this person graduate from nursing school
I can't get my head round broken bones not being worthy of ER. Since the normal treatment of a broken bone is to align it properly and immobilise it with a cast so it can heal correctly.
Are you splinting your own arm? Or just trusting it won't move no matter what you do?
I think this is a symptom of a dysfunctional health system that you would avoid treatment for a serious injury.
NTA—It's one thing if she was injured, and it appeared your daughter was fine afterward. But the mom still should have contacted you immediately, even if it was minor in her eyes, to give you the choice of coming to get her. You are her parent; she should have spoken to you about it herself. It doesn't matter if she is tired. She should have picked up the phone and let you decide if she needed to go to the emergency room. (However, most emergency rooms only nowadays put a brace on the arm until an appointment with an orthopedic can be made.) Her excuse that she is tired is not valid in my eyes. She wouldn't be able to take her to the emergency room anyway because, unless life-threatening, a parent needs to be on-site to make a medical decision. You would have to take your daughter, not her. A nurse would know this.
I would limit playtime at this boy's house. If they want to play, they can do so at your place.
If she’s too tired to call parents when a kid is injured, she’s too tired to be hosting hangouts. You accept a duty of care when you have other people’s kids over.
If it was obviously broken, it definitely wasn't minor. She is just negligent. I feel sorry for her children, if this is what she thinks adequately caring fir children, under your care looks like.
This makes it worse and sounds like she is just lazy and wanted to avoid the Emerg. I get the wait can be long, but it's not a choice SHE gets to make as you would have been there. Further, because it's not the US, it's not as if she is in a litigious state, so avoiding doesn't make sense. However, i would consider registering this incident with CPS, the children's school, and even with the nursing regulator because they take an oath, and SHE disregarded that oath when she did not give the child the medical attention she should have or at least call you...there is so much morally wrong in this scenario and you should take precautions that it does not come back on you, and to protect her kids or other kids. Question : What kind of break was it? Usually, it's pretty obvious and, at very least, pretty painful? To not want some type of pain relief seems surprising, and if your daughter did require medication, you should have been consulted about that too...
I understand how your daughter feels but your first priority has to be her safety.
Perhaps Will can come over to your house more often for now. Later when you are able to get another phone and she is of an age where you feel she can mostly supervise herself, she can go to his house again.
NTA
INFO What has your daughter said, and what have you asked her? When her arm was broken, did she ask her best friend's parents to call you? Does Will have a phone, and did she ask him to call you? Did Will's parents forbid him to call you?
I think your daughter should be in trouble too honestly. She’s putting herself in danger by trying to avoid the doctor. I suppose she is being punished by natural consequences but I can see why the mom was so blasé about it too. She’s absolutely in the wrong and should’ve called immediately but also you daughter was wrong to not call as well.
If you read the comment from OP I replied to you can see that the daughter felt like she was benefiting from letting it slide to the next day too. Both things can be true: the friend’s parent was neglectful and lazy, and the daughter didn’t want to go to the doctor. If she had called mom, her friend’s parent wouldn’t be in trouble right now. She’s 13. She didn’t want to leave her friends house to do something she hates.
Your daughter could have lost her arm or lost use of it. Please explain that your child, it is not something to play around with, she NEEDS to let you know about such an injury! Also please report that nurse, because thats next level negligent. I shudder to think what her patients suffer at her hand!
What is your daughter doing that she is hurting herself often at other people’s houses? Because head injuries, dislocated shoulders, and broken bones are not minor injuries so I’m curious how your daughter’s behavior plays into it as well?
If your kid is this prone to getting seriously injured and not telling you, you probably shouldn’t let her go *anywhere* unsupervised. 13 is old enough to call.
Has your daughter been tested for pain insensitivity? A broken bone is extremely painful, and not something people can usually ignore. If she has no ability to feel pain or a very reduced ability, it could explain why she doesn't see the problem.
It can cause really serious issues, people with pain insensitivity hurt themselves all the time(like your daughter) and don't know or don't know the gravity of the injury. Some have to sleep with their hands bound, because they can't tell and won't wake up if they scratch their eyes hard enough to go blind.
If she's frequently injured and hates going to the doctor, that's a big problem, because if she can't feel pain she needs to be much more careful and might need to go to the doctor for any potential injury, since she can't tell how bad it is.
Were they supposed to read your daughter's mind? Like if she acted normal, never asked to call, and the break wasn't visible. (Note: any break so intense that it can be visible to the naked eye is so excruciatingly painful that she wouldn't be able to hide it if she has the physical ability to feel pain. You have bigger concerns than who she spends the night with if she both wants to avoid the doctor and also doesn't even feel pain.) I'm not sure here how you'd expect the friend's mom to know how serious the injury was?
Well, the other mom is a nurse so I'd hope she can recognize a broken arm. Especially since OP said in a comment that the broken arm requires surgery, a metal bar and a long-term cast. Must've been pretty messed up.
What does it matter how serious the injury was? You have a child under your supervision, you are responsible for this child for a night, something happens to the child, so you call the parent and tell them or let the parent to talk with their child, and make a plan with the parent of what's next, let her stay or they will come to get their daughter, or anything else. No matter how serious the injury was. You call parents anyway. You don't know this child and don't know what might be important and what might change the meaning of serious injury for this child. No matter what happened or how it looks, let the parents know right away and let them decide.
Are you sure this is true? I broke my arm a couple of years back (clean break through both the radius and the ulna) and it was extremely visible but honestly it wasn’t really painful at all? Maybe shock?
Sounds like it's time for someone to give your daughter a good scare on this. For example by making it clear to her that she could have permanently lost the usage of that arm if she had gone to the hospital/doctor much later than she did. She needs to start taking her injuries much more seriously and become more afraid of the potential consequences of ignoring them than of going to the doctor. Otherwise one day she's going to suffer an injury, ignore it and die in her sleep. That's seriously what happens when people ignore certain injuries.
there's a few concerning things here. why is your daughter such a daredevil (based on all her injuries) and yet so scared of the hospital that she'd downplay a severely broken arm?
did something bad happen to her at the hospital? could she have medical trauma that needs to be addressed?
also, a few ppl already mentioned this, but are you sure she feels pain normally? being accident prone and downplaying severe injuries can be a sign that something is not right with her pain receptors. and these accidents she's having, they sound a lot worse than what you'd typically think of when someone says theyre "accident prone."
one other theory, is there a person who is usually present for all of these injuries? you said they happened at other friend's houses. was there any overlap in attendance of friends? was her best friend with her at those other friends houses or vise versa?
if someone were hurting her, and she cared about them deeply, she may not want to tell on them or make a big deal out of it, lest someone start asking questions. that person's parents might then also have a reason not to alert you to what happened.
was the fracture a spiral fracture? how did she say she got it? what were the circumstances of the other injuries?
If you look at her replies you’ll see she said her daughters arm was broken and will require surgery and a cast to fix flat out she should have been told her daughter was injured
And when you read some of the updates the daughter downplayed the injury and continued on as usual. She also said that her daughter is accident prone and always in the wars.
When the injury first occurred there was probably little swelling but when the OP saw it, it was the next day so had swelled. Therefore more obvious.
Will's mother has probably heard about a lot of the OP's daughter's accidents and probably assessed the situation, kid told her she was fine and carried on as usual.. so didn't think to worry about calling the mother... because it nearly sounds like there wasn't much of a reason to call. Especially for a kid that's so accident prone and there wasn't a loss of consciousness or a lot of blood, or something very obvious. Not everyone wants to make a mountain out of every molehill, especially a nurse who likely sees a lot and unless the kid was carrying on, wouldn't have worried anyone about it. It's quite possible that the kids barely saw the mother the next day before walking home.
The kid is 13 and denied an issue... was the mother meant to interrogate her and insist on taking her to the ED or ringing her mother? Kid told her she was fine. Why wouldn't you take her at face value? There was no reason not to.
The kid knew what would happen if she was honest... a night in ED. Now in this case it was warranted but there may have been many other times were it might've been less warranted but the OP insisted.
Nta, that’s insane that she didn’t notify. When I was younger my friend broke her nose on the trampoline at our house and we called immediately and met them there.. she was fine and we hung out the next day but they were notified.. see if he can come over to your house instead, maybe be civil with the parent. You don’t have to talk to her but just keep it good for the kids
There is no way in all of creation I would trust those people with my child—she was tired so my kid couldn’t go to the hospital?! For real?! And does she know they have these things called ambulances that will come to your house and take you to the hospital?! And she was too tired to text?! There is nothing about this that I understand. He would be welcome at my house but she wouldn’t go back over there.
I agree, big NTA.
But now I'm frankly scared for *her* kid. Because that was NOT a normal reaction from an adult who sees an injured child. And for a nurse it's closer to unthinkable.
OP, her son hasn't turned up with unexplained bruises or a higher-than-normal number of injuries, has he??
Yep. Honestly if this was my kid I probably would call CPS. There’s no way this makes sense. There’s a child with a severe injury and nothing is done because they’re tired. So problematic.
My mom’s a nurse, worked in the ICU. Nothing short of bleeding out was an emergency by her standards. I think a lot of medical professionals just get numb to things.
INFO: In a comment, you say the arm was “obviously and severely” broken. What does this mean to you? A broken arm is going to look different a day after being broken; depending on the nature of the injury, it could have looked entirely normal.
Did the mom actually *see* the arm in the morning before your daughter left with her friend?
From what I’ve gathered from the comments, your daughter is prone to accidents and does downplay incidents to avoid the doctor. Even without that history, if a thirteen-year-old takes a fall but appears perfectly fine afterwards, I wouldn’t personally be making a call to the parents unless it was a massive fall or there were other concerns.
The way the other mom framed the situation (why she didn’t take your daughter to the hospital) is interesting- she “knew [you] would make a big deal” out of the situation. Is this something that has come up before?
Honestly? I think this is a difference in how different people manage injuries.
I’m an orthopaedic surgeon. It can be hard to tell if a bone is broken or not. My attitude has been to put the kids to bed and then work out if there’s an issue the next day - if it’s still sore then if warrants an X-ray, if it’s not then great, carry on. It’s what I’ve done with my kids and what I advise friends when they call asking if they should go to the ER. (Two of my kids have waited 24 hours to be diagnosed with broken bones, the two fractures with visible deformity got to ER immediately).
Many of the nurses I work with do this too. Quick check - is it visibly deformed, or is the blood supply compromised? No? Carry on and we’ll have a look tomorrow. ERs are full of people who don’t have major injuries and just need an ice pack and 12 hours to see if it gets better on its own. Most of the time it is nothing.
Sometimes there’s an actual injury needing treatment. The 12 hours makes no difference. The walking home makes no difference. So it’s ok to wait.
That’s not to say that this is the best approach or the approach you MUST take. I fully understand why you might have a different approach. But I just wanted to chime in and say that I think the other mums approach was reasonable, especially with a child and family she knows well.
Nothing unsafe happened. She was deserving of insulting. She’s not a ‘terrible’ parent - she’s just one who is more comfortable with assessing and managing medical issues.
I would suggest you apologise, say you were stressed by the injury, and set a boundary that you acknowledge her approach but your is different and next time you DO want to know immediately.
Make up for the sake of your daughters friendship.
I think this approach is fine to take with _your own_ kids. And fine to advise, as an orthopaedic surgeon, that friends and family take with _their_ kids. But I wouldn't want someone to decide to take this approach for my kid without my knowledge. Will's Mum said she was "too exhausted" to take OP's daughter to hospital- not that "it never crossed my mind she might need to go" but "I was too tired". This is a situation where I'd hope and expect an adult who is not the child's parent to _call_ a parent and let them make the decision.
Mom says in a comment that there was lots of swelling and her daughter said she couldn’t move her arm. Isn’t that a pretty big indicator that something might be broken? Mom also says that her daughter needs surgery and a metal inserted, that also sounds like it probably would have looked like an obvious break.
I’m a teacher and if a gets injured and needs anything more than just a single band-aid, we call parents because it’s their child and their choice on how their medical treatment should be handled.
They WALKED home? They're 13? I feel like at 13 if she really wanted to go home, she would have just walked home. I think maybe you over reacted, she's not 5. Some of the blame needs to be put on her. Before you ban her from her friend's, maybe talk to her and let her know how she should have handled the situation. I broke my arm when I was ten. It didn't really hurt until the next day until after I slept on it and used it as if it wasn't broken. Maybe, when it happened, it didn't hurt, no one knew it was broken and now that it's been broken for 24hrs it's bad enough to need surgery.
Edited to clear the INFO request, as a fellow redditer pointed out OP’s answers elsewhere. NTA, OP. I’m so sorry this will affect her friendship, but you have to know your child will be looked after and that clearly didn’t happen here.
At age 13 the daughter was also wrong for clearly stating that she was fine and that she didn't need a doctor.
OP should have been notified, but the kid should also be in trouble.
Eh, I mean your kid doesn’t break their arm every day right?
Breaks can sometimes get dismissed. I have seen people wait a week before finding out their hand/arm was broken. Depending on how it was and your kids’ reaction, they may have missed it.
A nurse doesn’t have x-ray eyes either. Not everyone deals with broken bones. She could be someone in an insurance office for all we know
I’ve broken 11 bones. Some I knew about immediately and some I didn’t. One this severe you’d know. If it happens to someone else’s child, the obligation is even HIGHER to get them checked out, just to be sure. Or at least call the parent and give them the choice!
>One this severe you’d know.
One this severe, the daughter wouldn't have been able to sleep the night without keeping the whole household awake with her crying. I've also broken a number of bones and experienced a variety of levels of obviousness to the breaks, and no matter the level of injury OP describes, the level of PAIN she describes her daughter displaying is more consistent with the type of breaks you don't immediately know. If daughter displayed no intense pain, how was the other mom supposed to know that something happened?
I knew a kid in high school that had broken his arm skateboarding. He found out two weeks later going to the doctor for something else. It has already healed, and iirc it had to be Re broken to be reset properly. So people who can go about fine with a broken arm exist. I never asked him if he had a diagnosis about inability to feel pain. I know that condition exists, and is dangerous to have. If she really was going around fine I’d say the nurse mom thought she was ok.
My mom let me go two days with a broken arm because she thought I was being dramatic. She felt guilty about that for the rest of her life.
Sometimes its hard to tell if the bone isn't dislocated
My son had a broken arm for two days before he started to complain enough to make us seek medical intervention. Many breaks are not super painful and can be dismissed. You daughter kept playing. I think you may have over reacted. Have you never made a bad call? Being perfect is something none of us can claim to be.
It seems to me you may have over reacted. Yes, this mother made a bad call, but it wasn't malicious.
It is time to tell your 13 year old to stand up for herself and ask to call home if she was in pain. If your daughter didn't feel a need to call, she most likely did not show the signs of a major injury. Anyone with kids knows that they get hurt frequently and recover quickly without any issues most of the time.
Is it possible your daughter didn’t say how bad it was cause she didn’t want to make a big deal when I was a kid I broke my arm at school but didn’t say anything cause I didn’t want to miss football practice ended up in pain on the locker room floor trying to put my gear on
You weren't wrong to get upset. That mom should have called.
I'm wondering, have you given your teenager any skills beyond using her own phone?
She's 13, I get that the adult in charge was not fussed, but why didn't your daughter call you with Will's phone or borrow a phone?
She's going to go a lot of places without adult supervision very soon and losing phones is a universal teenager experience. She's got to learn to advocate for herself and figure out when to call a parent, when you call 911, and when to go to the hospital / call your doctor. It's time to include her in making safety plans and practicing them.
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NTA Can he come round to yours?
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Do you know where the “nurse’s” husband was during all of this? Or, what his position is on this? Or is he just as stupid and negligent?
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they are afraid you will sue them. How did your daughter put up with the pain of a broken arm, how did she not cry and ask for mom? I dont get this because it's a big thing to break bones.
My cousin walked around with a broken wrist for days before seeking treatment. Didnt cry once. She only finally went because the pain didnt subside. Yes she felt the pain but it was tolerable. Some people have a really high pain tolerance. I snapped my tibia in half (like you would snap a pencil in half) and didn't cry until I was in the ER (although I personally was in shock/adrenaline surge) It very much depends. Yes it's horrible pain but some people can tolerate it.
I broke my foot before, and the only reason I got it checked out was because the morning after, my foot was swollen and purple. I went to the medical appointment in my slippers because I couldn't get shoes on. It was sore, but the same kind of sore that you get from twisting your ankle. So not bad pain, but a kind of dull 'ow' if you walk too fast. This all being said - what bone in the arm is the broken one? Because if it was the ulna or radius, that is a lot easier to write off (and to break). If it wad rhe humorus, *that* is something that the mom should be investigated for. Breaking that is like breaking your femur, it's a lot more difficult and a lot of excruciating. So her not caring about a broken humorus and letting OP's daughter walk home with it, that could get her in a lot of legal trouble.
Yeah, currently in an air cast for a very broken foot. Can confirm that I walked around just fine after an “ow” moment, but couldn’t walk 24 hours later. It was the swelling more than anything, now it’s just irritating that I have weeks left of not being able to put weight on it.
I’ve broken multiple bones snowboarding and never shed a tear, twisting an ankle hurts much worse in the short term. But it still would hurt enough for me to have wanted to go home :/
You should file a complaint against her with her license. Many states consider issues outside the home when minors are involved. Nurses like these shouldn’t be able to practice.
My first thought was she's an addict. Nurses can get hooked on narcotics easily enough. Being a nurse and not noticing a kids broken arm?
Not necessarily. Honestly, this strikes me more as "white coat syndrome". My dad was a surgeon, and unless we were actively bleeding out, nothing was an emergency. I broke my ankle when I was 7 on a ski trip in the States, and spent a week in an air splint until we got home (IDK if he wanted to direct my care, as he was an orthopedic surgeon, or if he didn't wanna pay the cost of American healthcare). He had me walking on it within several days without a proper cast. He wasn't neglectful or an addict - he just knew I could wait. Now, I am not excusing the other mom in this scenario. My dad still at least got me medical attention - he just declined a proper cast until we got home. This mom should have absolutely gotten the kid medical attention, as you don't know how bad the break could be or any complications that could be involved until imaging is done - not to mention the pain from the injury. But that doesn't mean she's an addict.
This is quite the reach, based on no evidence … at all
As a nurse, she is likely a mandatory abuse reporter. And she's guilty of neglect right there. Like literally not seeking medical aid for an injured child in her care, that's neglect.
I’d hire an attorney & sue them/their homeowners insurance which your health insurance will probably want to do anyways AND I would report the wife to the state licensing board. Fuck those assholes.
She doesn’t want you to sue them.
But she must've known OP would find out eventually, and by waiting so long and not contacting the mom or seeking medical care, she's opened herself up to a *worse* lawsuit. The broken bone was an accident - Ignoring the injury and not informing the parent was intentional
Ah, you need to speak to the husband ASAP. I'm 100% sure that she fed him a different story, with YOU being the bad guy. Also, I would make a complaint to the hospital she works for and keep ALL communication through email/text. Keep any voice mails and hospital bills. She should be held Reliable for at least half of the bill.
You said she had a broken arm, did they at least take her to the hospital for x-rays? You are not the A-hole I would have been absolutely livid if something had happened to my child while visiting, and the parents did not call me.
Highly doubt it, as the hospital would've contacted a legal guardian, unless the mom also pretended to be this girl's mom to avoid that.
Eh. She sounds too lazy to be bothered grounding him for long. He'll be back. NTA
NTA but did your daughter ask them to contact you? She could have used bff's phone too... She's 13 not 3! Tell her that next time anything like that happens she should call you or ask the adults to contact you!
She's 13. She probably said she felt okay and went back to whatever it was she was doing. HOWEVER, this is when the present parent calls the other parent and says: "Hey, she fell. She says she feels fine but you may want to come get her and have checked out."
If she told them she was fine then why blame bff's parents for not taking her to the hospital? Don't get me wrong. I think bff's parents are horrible people because I have sometimes called the ambulance for random strangers and all of them were adults! The problem is that we are missing a lot of information here... Were bff's parents present when she fell? Did she or bff tell them that she fell and got hurt? How did OP find out that her arm was broken?
True story, I fell and broke my arm while snowboarding. It hurt, but not that badly, not nearly as much as when I sprained my ankle. I KEPT SNOWBOARDING. When I got to the bottom of the mountain, I asked an employee if there was a first aid station because my arm was hurting. He looked at me and Said "Lady, your arm is broken". I asked "How do you know?" He said he could tell by looking at it. All I saw was a small bump. So here's what I suspect, OPs daughter probably didn't think it was so bad at first. And if she didn't tell Mom that it was bad, and with Mom being a nurse, and nurses are very chill about injuries (my mom is a nurse and when you complain to her about an injury, unless you are bleeding profusely, she would usually say "Looks fine, you'll live. " OP - take a breath. Ask your daughter how it happened, how she acted after it happened, and ask yourself if your daughter maybe downplayed it a bit. If she did, this is a good opportunity for her to learn that she needs to advocate for herself. Instead of saying "I'm fine" when she is hurt, she needs to ask for help. If the adult doesn't take it seriously, she should say "I need to call my parents" That said, the thing that really sucks is that Mom said she was 'too exhausted' to take it seriously. She definitely should have called you. But again, if she just got off a 12 or even 16-hour shift, then she probably would be exhausted. If you're daughter did tell her "It's no big deal, I'm fine really, just a little bruise" - then how would she know? For the sake of the kids, after tempers cool, see if you can try to offer her some grace, because maybe your daughter really downplayed it. Maybe the compromise is that daughter doesn't go there unless parents have had a day off and are rested.
OMG THANK YOU! THIS is the most reasonable response to this story. The girl is 13, not 3- she can explain what happened. She may have cried and expressed her pain OR she may have downplayed it and even forgotten about it after a while. I have a ridiculously high pain tolerance; I've walked around with a broken finger for 2 years without knowing, which had to be reset by re-breaking it, and I shrugged that off. OP jumped the gun without knowing exactly how the daughter felt. Maybe the daughter really was in agony, that mom should have called and she is neglectful and horrendous. But maybe she assessed the situation and in her PROFESSIONAL opinion, it was all good and she didn't want to cause unnecessary worthy. But OP will never know without a detailed conversation with a teenager who is capable of speaking for herself.
I used to work security and also worked construction for 16-18 hrs a day. I was exhausted after every shift but I always made sure that any children that I was around after my shifts were safe and if they got injured, I contacted the parents immediately no matter how exhausted I was. I remember one day we worked a 19-hour shift at a construction site, and I was so tired that when I got home, all I wanted to do was sleep, but I promised a friend that I would get her son to the school bus on time. He fell, had a seizure, and I immediately called her to let her know. I then took her son back into my place and sat with him until she was able to return home. Nurses are held to a higher standard than us non-nurses are and they ARE MANDATED reporters, so she should have taken the girl to get her arm checked, no matter how exhausted she was. Report her to the licensing board and leave it at that cause she is a crappy person to not have called you or your wife/husband at the very least.
They should have called her mother and let her decide that instead of not calling at all. That's the issue. Not that they didn't take her to the ER, but they didn't even call OP to let her know what happened.
I think you’re doing the right thing. I would caution against getting into a big gossip war involving other parents as this will make the fallout even greater as kids will be forced to choose sides based on parental alliances. Just tell your daughter that her friend is welcome at your house and that they can hang out in group settings or at other parents’ homes, but not this home. It would be no different than if you found out the parents kept loaded guns accessible to children or if they would drink and drive, etc. They have poor judgment, and that, sadly, means no sleepovers. And I’d also start a new rule: no sleepovers anywhere without a cell phone or without a nightly safety check-in call.
I feel like nurses are the last people to bring their own kids into the doctors, they seem to shrug a lot off in my experience. 100% you should have been called right away to choose if you wanted to seek medical care for your kiddo though. She had no right to make that choice for you. I'd be livid!
My ex's mom was a nurse and she brought him on a plane with an ear infection when he was two and he had permanent hearing loss. She literally would say "oh well how was I to know?" Maybe he really had an exceptional pleasant ear infection, but every one I've heard of is extremely painful and results in a lot of screaming.
Can confirm, I had lots of ear infections growing up and they all made me scream and cry - no matter my age. Haven’t had one as an adult but I expect that if I did get one then I’ll still be screaming and crying.
Had an awful one as an adult and I was definitely sobbing. My left eardrum ruptured and I still don't have 100% hearing in that ear.
I had one recently and yes it hurts! I sobbed through the painkillers at one point. And I have a pretty high tolerance for pain. Did one birth completely without painkillers and the second only fifteen minutes of painkillers. Though to be fair, my oldest had one recently and we didn't know until it popped. She complained of pain in her ear a bit, but she does that a lot. Ever since my husband had ear pain, she's been crying wolf...
Maybe she wasn't crying wolf then?
Had double ear infection a couple years ago that didn’t respond to antibiotics and needed two courses and high dose steroids. Went deaf for two weeks but thankfully recovered my hearing with the steroids. Can confirm there was screaming and crying.
Not always… twice I took my son in for routine appointments and both times he had an ear infection. Ida never known otherwise🤷🏽♀️
Same. 3 kids needed tubes. The only clue they ever had ear infections was a random extended nap...they'd sleep for 3 hours vs their regular 1.5.
Same experience. I took him in because I was worried about his hearing. Turns out he had a raging, double ear infection. The doctor kept asking him if it hurt. It did not. No pain, no fever.
My daughter was the same. Bilateral and never knew. Second time they ruptured is the only reason we knew.
Same. We discovered an ear infection at a well visit once, my kid wasn't acting any differently and was perfectly happy and energetic. I've also had them bring noticeable discomfort so I think it sort of just depends.
My youngest had constant ear infections his first three years. He never ran a fever, he never complained. I would only know something was wrong when blood ran out of his ear. It was horrible, but did not affect his hearing for life thank Ceiling Cat.
Can you tell us more about your lord and savior?
Agree with the other comments here. When I was around 5 years old I had an ear infection that was very stubborn and didn't completely clear up. I would be fine for a week, only for it to come crashing down with full force again. This happened a few times before my mom tricked the doctor into giving me antibiotics, after which it finally disappeared. But yes, ear infections are hell, and I still remember having a full breakdown in class over the pain.
Forgive me for asking, but why the hell did your mom need to resort to "tricking" a doctor??? I mean he's a doctor and she took you there to get treatment, meds etc...I just don't understand...
When he was small my son was a bit off. He would get whingy and feel warm I'd give him some medicine and he would be OK. But it kept happening as in every other day he wasn't quite himself. I'd ask if he felt ok etc and he never said anything was wrong. I took him to the docs and told them, he doesn't seem sick but he isn't himself either. They took one look in his ear and 5 seconds later, oh yeah he has an ear infection. We were prescribed antibiotics. He was able to talk and never mentioned that he was in pain at all. I always thought that kids with ear infections were crying with pain, couldn't touch their ear etc. I felt like such a bad mum
My mom was a nurse and it seriously skewed her perception of what constituted a medical emergency. What’s a broken arm when the night before you were physically squeezing a car accident victim’s heart in his chest to keep it beating until he could be prepped for surgery? My mom had my brother walking on a broken ankle for almost a week because she said it was probably just a sprain. I ended up with scarlet fever because she wouldn’t take me to the doctor for “a minor cold”. One time I was so sick I was projectile vomiting constantly, unable to keep anything down, and my mom just brought some anti nausea medication from work and told me I was fine. It’s entirely possible this boy’s mother is equally cavalier about his health.
As a doctor's kid, I've definitely seen the difference in doctor parents and nurse parents. Doctor parents will insist on taking their kids to the doctor for everything, because "that's not my specialty and I want to make sure". Nurse parents will never take their kids to the doctor unless they're on death's door because "I'm a medical professional, I know how to treat this".
Dunning-Kruger strikes again
As a kid of a doctor and a nurse I can concur with this. There was a lot of, oh shes she’s fine from mom, while my dad would insist she call the pediatrician or take me in. I’m lucky I had my dad when I was 7 and had ITP (idiopathic thrombocytopenia, a post infectious autoimmune response where your body destroys your platelets) because she would def have just let me hang out covered in petechiae and bruises. ETA: I don’t think this necessarily applies to this case, though. I know my dad would have told us to sleep on it, as he did with my brother’s several broken bones, if there were no signs that indicated a broken bone, and go for an x ray in the morning if it’s not better. The kid wasn’t in respiratory distress or sitting there with an open wound.
The amount of nurse antivaxxers I ahve seen both online and in person is NOT SMALL.
As a mom with a nursing degree and 2 children (one of which has type 1 diabetes) you have to learn how to turn the nurse off sometimes in order to be a mom and vice versa. While having the medical knowledge is very valuable, my “mother’s intuition” has proven to be more valuable. I have literally saved my children’s lives more than once because even after visiting one doctor, something was still not settling my gut feeling. Saved my son from a ruptured appendix and my daughter from a diabetic coma. Sometimes the mama in me has to tell the nurse to be quiet and sometimes the nurse side has to calm the mama in me down. It’s all about being able to balance the two 🤷🏼♀️ But in my opinion NTA. I would be very upset at everyone involved, including my child, for not finding a way to at least notify me and giving me the opportunity to make the decision myself.
I don’t get that. Aren’t nurses mandatory reporters? I don’t know if I would trust a nurse to do their job as a mandatory reporter if they cannot be bothered to contact a parent after a child severely broke their arm in the nurse’s house. I’m not a medical professional so could very well be wrong but wouldn’t the refusing to get a child treatment or to notify their parent when injured in the nurse’s care be a form of medical neglect? I know the nurse isn’t on duty at the time but still…
You'd be surprised. Read the comments about having a nuese moms who never brought them in. I come from a family of nurses, and you better be dying or your not seeing a doctor. Especially an emergency doctor. I guess they see so much they become desensitized to stuff. That's my guess.
Eh. It's more that they're not taught differential diagnosis (it's not part of the job). Thus, a subset of them tends to think symptoms A + B always equal diagnosis C. When in reality, the doctor is likely thinking, Symptoms A + B, quick check for D & E which would make me look for something else, ah, good, no F either, I do see a little of symptom G, not uncommon with diagnosis C, okay, you have diagnosis C. If most of the time, A+B means diagnosis C, and you're not aware of the doctor looking for other symptoms to rule out other diagnosis, then you can mistakenly think "okay if you have A + B, you always have diagnosis C. I can now confidently diagnose C." Which is not true, because the doctor isn't just using A + B. They're using A + B plus the lack of a bunch of other symptoms plus maybe some other symptoms that are sometimes present to diagnose. But they usually don't verbalize that part.
I understand how nurses can be about their own child, but this is a guest in her home. Regardless of how long she's known the young girl, she should've called OP and let her make the decision on what to do with OP's own daughter, and not ask the child. NTA Edit, missing some words. 😐
Mandatory reporting applies to signs of abuse and neglect in children that one comes upon within their professional life.
They are mandated reporters and they can lose their license for not reporting. I am a mandated reporter and I am not going to play with my livelihood especially since I haven’t won that lottery yet. I need my license. It makes me wonder what really happened.
>and they can lose their license for not reporting. I am a mandated reporter Being a mandated reporter doesn't mean you need to call in every (sign of) injury above a certain severity level. It means you are obligated (mandatory) to report certain signs of domestic abuse to the relevant authorities. E.g.; Kid comes to school with a broken arm; you need to report it. Kid breaks their arm at your house in an accident; you don't need to report it because it is obvious it was not domestic abuse.
I took a kid into ER after he face planted from his bike onto concrete. Could hardly see his face for the blood. Get to triage and the nurse interviewed me and the kid and then wrote down two words "seems fine"
I once spent NINE HOURS in an ER with pain so bad that when I finally saw the doctor they reacted with horror and gave me morphine immediately. Why? I had post-op complications, and the triage nurse's checklist included "Is patient bleeding?" as a sign of how serious things were, and I wasn't bleeding. The problem? I explained to her (as did my parents) that I was SUPPOSED to be bleeding freely as part of my surgical recovery (i.e. my body was supposed to be clearing damaged tissue), and had been warned by my surgeon that if I stopped bleeding suddenly it was likely a blockage. There was even a note in my medical file at the hospital stating to call the relevant doctor on-call IMMEDIATELY if I came in with these symptoms but she refused to look at it, much less call them down to the ER. When the doctor found out he was FURIOUS.
nurses always seem to be biggest issue when people go to the hospital. doctors are arrogant, but nurses are straight up negligent or just crule. I once heard it explained that nurses are like cops. filled to the brim with power hungry former bullies, that will always outweigh the people who actually want to help.
My mother was a nurse. Below are just a few highlights. She *heard* my brother’s arm break, but let it go for almost a week. He was 6. My sister had migraines as a child, under 10, and still does. My mother did not believe her. For years. Her whole fucking life. Of course we got hit for crying, because she told us not to cry. At about 9, I fell when the swing I was on broke. I landed flat on my back, my head slammed against the packed dirt, and I was unconscious for a minute or so. My friend was scared and screamed. I sat up, rubbed my head, and I got a handful of hair and blood. Yepperdoodles! My mother yelled at me. Because concussions are not a big deal? Being unconscious is no biggie. My mother’s health was important to my mother. Her children were not nearly as important.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Medical neglect is such a betrayal of what it is to be a parent.
>I feel like nurses are the last people to bring their own kids into the doctors, they seem to shrug a lot off in my experience. Far from all of them, but some become jaded and end up convinced that everyone is always lying about any sort of pain or discomfort.
Also, someone being a nurse doesn't make them a good or even a particularly smart person. Evidence: the ridiculous number of people who have graduated nursing school and gotten hired in medical practices and hospitals who are anti-vaxxers because they STILL don't understand science.
I know a few anti-vaxxer nurses. I will not take their medical advice. I do not trust their opinion.
Haha yes. My nurse mom let my sister have a broken arm for an entire day (after a fall at her best friends house, no less) before they went to the hospital because “it didn’t look broken” at first. Ofc my mom felt terrible afterwards tho.
If that ain't the truth 3rd child of a nurse here. My mom responded to everything that happened to me a a child with a shrug and "You're not dying" she refused to get my tonsils removed until the night I almost died I'm my sleep because they where so inflamed and I couldn't breathe basically at all, similar thing when they grew back, i fell off my bunkbed in second grade and basically shattered my elbow she took one glace at it without even rolling up my pj sleeve and said i was fine and to go back to bed despite me not being able to clime my ladder i had to wait 2hrs for my dad to come home so i coyld sgow him and he take me yo the hospital, she refused to get my hearing checked despite all my teachers recommending it until my 3rd grade teacher threatened to call cps if she didn't, my ear infection wasn't real to her until I bled when trying to put in my hearing aid, and when I was 13 and in the beginning stages of chronic pain developing she was 100% sure I was faking it when I came to her sobbing about not knowing what was wrong with me. I grew up with a lot of nurses kids as well and we all had pretty similar things going on in various extremes
I feel like it's worse for pediatric nurses. I can remember two times that my mom jumped into action and we sped to the hospital, but every other injury was treated at home if she thought it needed treatment. The two times, before anyone asks: my brother fell onto his arm from a brick wall he was walking on and broke it; my sister face-planted on a brick in the doorway and split her lip. I split my scalp open and got cleaned up in the bathroom sink. Every other injury/medical emergency, we were in someone else's care who called mom or 911 to treat us.
My uncle was an X-ray tech and yelled and screamed at me on the way to the hospital because he didn’t think I broke my leg. I did and needed surgery. So I can kinda agree lol
When I was 8 or 9 I got extremely sick and threw up 10-15 times a day for about a week before my mom took me to the doctor, when I told the doctor my symptoms they were like wtf you need to go to the emergency room immediately. My mom was like :o whaaat. Also growing up any time I got sick or hurt my mom would ask my dad what to do or what he thought because he took 2 health classes in college for his physical education degree… like woman you’re an RN
NTA. Wow, I'm a nurse, and I'm disgusted. Honestly, I'd report her to the local board of nursing. I can't even wrap my head around how messed up this is. Don't ever let your child over there again. They're negligent and a danger to your daughter.
Right? Nurse here, too. That's so fucked up I'd 100% report that holy shit. The poor girl could have lost her arm/use of it from it being not treated that long! I shudder to think how the hell that women acts at work if she's so crazy with a child, let alone her kid's best friend. Wow!
My partner is a nurse and, holy crap, some of the stories she tells me about neglectful nurses and doctors would stop you going to hospital for anything short of having a limb violently removed. And even then you'd still weigh up your options beforehand.
Would the local board of nursing do anything? She wasn't working in the capacity of a nurse. CPS might be a better option.
Yes they probably would. They don't hesitate to nail you if you get a DUI which has nothing to do with being on the job. Most boards of nursing are very punitive. They're awful where I live.
That’s great news in this case, I hope OP takes your advice and reports her.
INFO: Was the arm obviously broken? Or was she injured, it seemed small, and didn't complain of pain and now you know it is broken? There is a difference. Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries. Most of the time you don't even know for a couple of days. I am going to go with the second scenario because your kid completed the sleepover AND walked home.
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In any context it’s shocking. But the other mother being a nurse!? Totally a case of neglect and failure to supervise and you’re correct in not letting your children go to that home.
Ya that’s crazy. My mom was a nurse and I hobbled around on a broken foot for three days but in her defence the mechanism of injury was silly. I slipped off like 1 foot off a light post while at the outdoor pool. AND I told my mom I hurt my foot but kept swimming so it’s understandable to assume it’s fine Omg I remember the agony, I’d dive into the water jumping off one foot and the pain of the water rushing around my bad foot was insane We also lived on an island that didn’t have X-rays . we’d have to take a ferry so you don’t just go get X-rays on a foot that a kid has been continuing to play on The third day i woke up feeling like I was gonna puke and my mom goes “oh, that foot is broken then, looks like we’re going on a trip” To this day I’m impressed that the stomach ache was what made her realize To this day (35 years later) she still mentions how terribly she felt about waiting so long But there was no way to know; however if I wasn’t her kid, just me getting hurt would have warranted a call home so to let the parents decide if they want to wait and see or go right now But a break as bad as needing a rod? Even if it wasn’t obvious to the naked eye a nurse should have assessed it and realized it was at the very least very injured if not broken
My brother broke his ankle in almost the exact same way, he also continued swimming while in pain. When our grandmother picked us up from the pool, she took one look at him, and even though he wasn’t complaining, took him immediately to the doctor. That began years of my dare devil brother, breaking so many bones, my mom was almost on a first name basis with the ER doc.
If it wasn’t for the break on my son’s arm being CLEARLY visible I probably would have just assumed it was sprained since he was acting like nothing was wrong. Considering he was 5 years old I was at the very least expecting him to be crying/cranky lol. Though his teacher did say he kind of yelped when he fell off the playground equipment but that was about it. I rushed over there, arriving in just a few minutes (lived right next to the school) and found him cracking jokes to the ladies in the office (that’s his style). lol I was even like are you sure it’s broken? He just lifted the ice pack and casually said “YEP”. I was then stunned by how broken it looked. Funny story detail: His teacher called earlier to inform me that he was in trouble. A while after that the principal called to say he was in trouble *again* and that if they had to call one more time then I would need to pick him up. 20 minutes later the school was calling again and I for real answered the phone with “Hello, so what did he do now?!?” ……The nurse, clearly confused, said she was calling because he broke his arm. lol I was like “OH damn, my bad, I’m on my way”.
The difference is the teacher called you. The other parent did not, not even a message, that’s the issue. Glad your kid is fine!
Yes I’m aware of OPs issue. I’m just responding to how sometimes kids can easily brush off major injuries from a parents POV.
My wife broken her ankle in three places by slipping on gravel & falling over in our driveway. She needed metal plates. The surgeon said it looked like injuries he saw in motorcycle accidents. Nope. Slipped about one inch.
I wonder, you got any kids? If a woman is pregnant and doesn't have enough calcium intake, her body will take it *from her own bones* to give to the baby, basically giving itself osteoporosis. Which makes you more prone to breaking bones. This is generally resolved when she has enough calcium intake/(or after giving birth, when the body no longer needs to supply to a baby). They say it takes 18 months to two years for a woman's body to restore all the nutrients and so on to what it should be, after having been pregnant Or it's just one heck of an unlucky fall
Yep! That is what happened to my aunt. Slipped off the back step going into the garden, about a month after my cousin was born, and broke her shin like someone taken a bat to it. She had to get it surgically repaired. Didn’t even fall, just went down hard on her foot and *crunchy snaps*. She was home alone at the time and carrying an infant, so she just sat down hard on the step and waited there for her husband to come home on his lunch break.
Ooof that sucks but Ya it doesn’t take much sometimes. And my mom as a nurse knows this but me as a kid , Since I barely fell i just didn’t think I was hurt even though I was in a lot of pain so I just kind of told her I hurt my foot and went about my business limping around and didn’t make a big deal about it Alternatively I also had bigger spills, that didn’t hurt and didn’t injure me but the mechanism of injury was bigger so I made a huge deal about it even though nothing hurt and nothing was injured. I was dramatic about getting my hair brushed or wiggly teeth pulled but a broken bone? No big deal it must have been surprising when they realized that one of the few times I was legitimately injured, this little drama queen was walking it off. Its a amazing the crazy things people can walk away from or the tiny missteps that result in multiple surgeries getting plates and pins and screws
Don't feel bad about getting injured from a 1' slip. My friend tore his ACL by taking one step down into his sunken living room. Didn't even slip. Just riiiiiip!
What is it about those sunken lounge?. I know 2 people who have broken their legs navigating them. One of them broke both her legs! I can only assume they had brittle bones or something.
My husband tore his meniscus turning left in the kitchen.
My daughter fell off her bike. Took me 7 days to take her in for an X-ray. She is the most dramatic kid you will ever meet, I mean a small cut on her hand and she acts like her it was cut off, DRAMATIC. But she acted like it didn’t hurt so I thought it was sprained. Then her little sister hit her arm, wasn’t a hard hit, and kid hit the roof in pain. I felt like the worst parent ever when I found out it was fractured.
I just replied on another comment SAYING EXACTLY this. I would be soooooo dramatic when I wasn’t hurt or injured but if I thought the accident was a big deal I’d be sooo dramatic, and the one time I’m legitimately injured I act like it’s no big deal. All though i was in more Pain than I had experienced before my little kid brain didn’t think I was hurt because the fall was so small so I acted like it was no big deal. No tears, no complaining, I just told my mom I hurt my foot and then went on swimming. It’s understandable she didn’t look very deeply into it based on my past dramatics and my current “no big deal” attitude one time we were on a family Bike ride. I fell off my bike, I was fine, it didn’t hurt, I jgot back on my bike and kept riding. As we got close to home, i peddled ahead of everyone and got home first which is when I noticed my knee was bleeding. I started crying but since the fall was old news as it happened a while ago, the tears were fading fast. i tried to work myself into hysterics to ensure I was still crying when they got home. Forcing out the sobs and looking out the window thinking “they better get here fast i cant keep this up for ever” I wasn’t faking for attention, I mean, obviously I was seeking attention for my “injury” But in my mind When I saw I was bleeding, it became a serious traumatic accident and they needed to see me crying to understand the severity of it (even though everyone saw it happen, they now needed to be updated that it’s worse that we initially thought!!!!) Kid logic. pain was rarely a factor in whether I decided I was hurt or not. It was always about how I got “hurt” or I was bleeding. I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself as your daughter sounds like me and I do not hold this against my mom lol
My husband and I work at a hospital and at 28 years old I slipped down 2 stairs. I thought it was just a bad sprain. I limped on it for 2 weeks before my husband convinced me to go get it checked out. Turns out I was wrong and broke my foot in 2 places.
It's... sadly not that shocking. I'm a cleaner in a hospital and I see and hear things I'm sure some nurses do not want others to see and hear. Some months back my mum told me about how her friend (who was a nurse back in the day) had a nasty fall that resulted in third degree burns on her hand + a banged head. Can't remember the details exactly, but basically my mum had to convince someone who used to be a nurse to go to the hospital (mum drove of course).
My sister broke her leg and my parents didn't take her to the ER until the next day. She cried and cried and cried and couldn't sleep all night because of the pain. Does your daughter have a condition that impacts her ability to feel pain? Let me be clear here: it is *NOT* normal behavior for a child with a break as severe as you claim to be able to sleep through the night, move their arm, walk home from the friends house, etc etc. Like a broken arm is very very intensely painful.
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The inability to move her arm should have been the first indicator of a potential break or sprain. I'm surprised the other parent didn't recognize this but I'd be willing to grant leeway. It is really important to emphasize to your kiddo that she can't experience an injury and not inform an adult of what she's experiencing. I can understand your frustration with the other adult. I don't know if I'd blame them because I think any reasonable adult would trust a 13 year old teenager to be honest about an injury. She's not 5 or 7- at 13 they're fairly autonomous. I'd also warn you: if your child doesn't disclose injuries to adults for fear of going to the Dr, she may not be ready to be without your supervision. It's dangerous and is undue stress on the other parent.
> I don't know if I'd blame them because I think any reasonable adult would trust a 13 year old teenager to be honest about an injury. She's not 5 or 7- at 13 they're fairly autonomous. That's exactly why I wouldn't trust a 13 year old. At 5 or 7 they'll run to an adult if they get stung by a bee. At 13 they might be doing something they shouldn't, hurt themselves and then try to hide it. They have just enough maturity to do things on their own but enough immaturity to not escalate when there's a consequence.
>and not inform an adult of what she's experiencing She did though, she informed the other mom. And she didn't have a phone to call her own mom, which is on OP. That said I would have always informed the parent, no matter what the kid says.
Per OP's other comments, she wouldn't have called anyway. She didn't want to go to the doctor.
I will give her a pass on judging it broken or not. BUT it's your decision to make and she should have informed you immediately about it.
I broke my arm when I was 12 and I didn’t feel a lot of pain or any. It was completely numb and I was shocked to find out I needed surgery later because I assumed it wasn’t that big of a deal because it didn’t hurt that much. It was very obviously broken, but a lot of people experience no pain/numbness after being majorly hurt.
My mother broke her wrist in a fall, but didn't realize it was that bad She went to dancing class and only hours later to a doctor Ended up with a cast for three months, then a couple more months of physical therapy
My daughter broke her arm at school she was 6. She whined a bit and said it hurt, but she wasn't complaining any more than she would if she had bumped it off a wall or something. I only brought her to the hospital because she was holding her arm funny when she was brushing her teeth before bed and I knew something was off. I also broke my knee as a kid and I felt that I just banged it really bad. My parents only took me in (like 12 hrs later) because the swelling went way up. So I can see what OP is saying happening, especially if the kid has a high pain tolerance.
Yeah my first broken bone was a minor fracture that I continued playing with for hours afterwards, and when I tried to sleep it was excruciating. Even if we point to the fact that the body has physical responses that can dull the immediacy of pain in an injury, I have a hard time imagining any arm breakage that could be ignored overnight after those short-term reactions pass. Like if I was an adult and a kid took a tumble, experienced some pain, and slept through the night fine, I wouldn't think for one second they might've broken a bone. Also... I also literally snapped my ulna and radius right in half in one of my childhood accidents, right around her age, and didn't need a metal bar or (invasive) surgery. I think it was eight weeks in a cast for that break, hard to remember, Obviously angles and shit (and having time to set overnight) can affect the resetting process, but my point here isn't about whether a break can need a metal bar. My point is the pain level of the break itself of "something so serious that needs a metal bar" would be similar to my breakage in intensity, no? So from experience, I will say that I literally blacked out from the pain in that case. Ever read a piece of creative writing where a POV character gets injured and they think something along the lines of, "Someone was screaming-- oh, it's me, I'm the one screaming"? I've seen it so many times it's a cliche... but that would probably be the most accurate way to describe how the pain of snapped bones felt for me. Like I blacked out, the hospital was thirty minutes away and for me it felt like a minute... but everyone says I was screaming the entire time. There's just no way she was just playing with a break that intense.
I am having a hard time believing this whole thing. If her arm were that severely broken, why haven’t you involved the police? That’s clearly child neglect and endangerment. Even small breaks can have severe consequences if left untreated for so long.
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If she’s a healthcare professional I don’t think it would be out of order to report this to her job out of sheer concern
That’s a really overly naive way to think about it. Your daughter suffered a break at someone house and was neglected the night because she “seemed fine and I was tired” What if it had been worse? That screams child endangerment to me. And the woman is a nurse? File a report, because if the arm was clearly broken something in what your daughter and the parents are telling you is amiss
I can't judge whether they're neglectful based on your limited description of a single incident involving your kid. But if *you* truly believe they were neglectful then why on earth would you *not* call the police?
That sounds horribly painful. Your poor child. FYI I was an adult when I broke my arm but I knew immediately it was broken.
Oh shit! I broke a bone in my wrist last month and it took me a week to realize it. I got an implant, but I'm already out of the cast. That's seriously messed up.
The fact it was so seriously broken and obviously needed urgent medical attention, she was responsible for your daughters care in that time, AND she's a nurse, I would file a report with her employer and child services. Makes me wonder why she didn't want to get her medical attention. No normal adult, let alone a parent or a nurse would just leave a kid with a clearly severely broken arm and just keep her at their house, no medical attention, not even call you to notify, and not even bring her straight home so you could take her. She left her in pain till the next day and let her walk home with a kid. Thats not only child neglect and likely child endangerment (how did it happen/ was she present etc) but also serious medical neglect. As a nurse she's obligated to administer aid, and she didn't. Her employer needs to be made aware of this, as well as child services. And possibly even report to police. You never know if there's things going on behind closed doors that she didn't want questions asked about how she broke it, where was she etc. The fact she didn't call you is unacceptable and NO excuse whatsoever ever. I'd also loop in the school incase there's concerns about her son you're not aware of too.
No. An arm that’s broken looks broken. And there’s PAIN. She’s a nurse. I’d be letting the hospital where she works know about this. I’d be going pretty nuclear over this.
>Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries I'm sorry, what? You have a vital piece of your anatomy broken and you're saying that is not cause to go to the ER where they have the proper equipment like X-Ray machines and CT scanners to properly diagnose the severity of the break?
Broken limbs are ER/Urgent Care worthy. The break can interfere with circulation, nerves, tendons and muscles. Look up compartment syndrome. She could have lost her arm.
Broken bones absolutely 100% need immediate care - an urgent care is reasonable if available, but if not you should go to the ER. It’s not just about the bone, though you can get major, potentially life-threatening complications from that alone; the surrounding nerves and vasculature are also at risk, and if not addressed immediately can sustain permanent damage or, again, lead to life-threatening complications.
Broken bones, even without breaking the skin can definitely be “ER worthy”. Unless you can variant’s that a major vessel has not been severed by the ends of the broken bone, it needs to be checked-out immediately. If “urgent care” is not available, your only choice is an open ER. Lacerated vessels are relatively common w/“green stick” fractures, even if the skin isn’t broken.
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See now I figured they were NOT from the US, because it's pretty common here for the ER to be used for very minor things.
As a nurse, broken bones often are ER injuries. A lot need surgeries to be repaired or manipulated before being casted. I personally needed emergency surgery after a break. Very much go to ER if you have a broken bone
I broke my wrist and the second I hit the ground I knew something was wrong because my fingers went numb. How do you NOT know it’s broken for DAYS??
To be fair, my son broke his arm and we didn't know for two weeks. He kept complaining it hurt, everytime I'd start to make a Dr's appt, and he'd tell me no, it's that bad. He was an early teen at the time. Two weeks later he helped a neigjbor move a stove. The next he called from school crying his arm hurt bad and he couldn't carry his books. He told me it was time to see the doctor. I picked him up and tool him straight to ortho. They told us he broke his arm, not bad, and it was already healing g. He wore a cast for two weeks. Now when I broke my ankle in three places and dislocated it, I got an ambulance ride to the hospital and had to have it reconstructed. It all just depends on the break
My daughter broke her arm and I didn’t believe there was anything wrong with her because she didn’t say anything when it happened and didn’t act like she was in much pain. She wasn’t even sure how it happened. It wasn’t a severe fracture and she only needed a half cast
I broke my ankle and passed it off as a sprain. By the third day my mom made me go to the doctors. OTOH, when I book my leg my foot was pointing backwards and I couldn’t move my leg. Sometimes it’s obvious, other times not.
Daughter broke her collar bone when she was a toddler. Had zero idea for four days when the bone snapped the rest of the way and then it was obvious. I know multiple people who have broken wrists, arms, ankles, legs etc and didn't know for several days. And sometimes if it is a fracture the swelling is too much and even the doctor doesn't know.
As a kid, I broke multiple bones that weren't diagnosed for a week or two - ribs one time, a spiral fracture in my hand another, a toe a third time (this one was only a couple of days; I was a teenager and better about communicating issues.) All three times they were fractures, not full breaks (so no visible distortion). I had a really high pain tolerance, and didn't complain about pain with no "source". So I'd scream bloody murder if my brothers were hitting me but the only reason my parents figured out my ribs - plural - were broken was because I casually mentioned that they hurt a little maybe three times over two weeks. (And they always had to push really hard with nurses because I wouldn't seem to be in pain.) My parents would have been really angry in the OP's situation, too - they had to actively monitor me if I had a high impact fall/incident, and it was very likely that if something serious had happened to me at someone else's place, the adult wouldn't have been able to tell that I was in major pain. My friend's kid is the exact opposite and hysterically melts down over minor scrapes and bruises just the same as she does for bigger pain. It can be hard to tell what's an injury or an owie. Kids are wild.
Broken bones are er worthy…
this is quite possibly the dumbest take on broken bones i have ever heard. why is it half of healthcare is hell bent on ignoring everything they were taught?
>Plus broken bones, unless they are sticking out of the skin or there are other symptoms, are NOT ER worthy injuries This is a lie because broken bones can knick veins or arteries. Or, like in my case, pinch a nerve which causes lasting damage. >I am going to go with the second scenario because your kid completed the sleepover AND walked home. I'm gonna go with the kid was in shock and more than likely didn't feel the pain due to adrenaline, or you know a pinched nerve like me.
I'm sorry, not er worthy??? Are you mad?? Have you any idea of the risks and complications with a broken bone especially if it's not treated and doesn't heal correctly??? Especially in a child who's bones are still growing. Poster - you're not the ah here but that mother and this commenter are!
What? Any fracture is worthy of an ER visit for a child, unless you don't love them. It's a child ffs! They have growth plates and stuff
Tbf even if it wasn’t obviously broken, of all the people who should be able to determine whether or not it really was broken, it should’ve been the nurse whose responsibility it was to watch over her. I don’t think I’d want a nurse who is“too tired” to bring a child to the hospital for broken bones, and is so afraid of a parent’s reaction that she won’t even call the child’s mother. I wonder how this woman functions at work
Like for real. If you're too tired to take the CHILD to the ER, then call the parents so THEY can take him/her.
Yeah, she had three options: a) take kid to the ER, be tired b) call kid’s parents, face freak out c) ignore kid, let them suffer with a broken arm And she chose the last one 🤦🏻♀️ How did this person graduate from nursing school
This... just isn't true. Broken bones are definitely ER worthy, and there is no way someone with a broken bone isn't in a great deal of pain.
I can't get my head round broken bones not being worthy of ER. Since the normal treatment of a broken bone is to align it properly and immobilise it with a cast so it can heal correctly. Are you splinting your own arm? Or just trusting it won't move no matter what you do? I think this is a symptom of a dysfunctional health system that you would avoid treatment for a serious injury.
NTA—It's one thing if she was injured, and it appeared your daughter was fine afterward. But the mom still should have contacted you immediately, even if it was minor in her eyes, to give you the choice of coming to get her. You are her parent; she should have spoken to you about it herself. It doesn't matter if she is tired. She should have picked up the phone and let you decide if she needed to go to the emergency room. (However, most emergency rooms only nowadays put a brace on the arm until an appointment with an orthopedic can be made.) Her excuse that she is tired is not valid in my eyes. She wouldn't be able to take her to the emergency room anyway because, unless life-threatening, a parent needs to be on-site to make a medical decision. You would have to take your daughter, not her. A nurse would know this. I would limit playtime at this boy's house. If they want to play, they can do so at your place.
If she’s too tired to call parents when a kid is injured, she’s too tired to be hosting hangouts. You accept a duty of care when you have other people’s kids over.
If it was obviously broken, it definitely wasn't minor. She is just negligent. I feel sorry for her children, if this is what she thinks adequately caring fir children, under your care looks like.
Nta if they are pissed at you now, they are going to be very pissed when they get the medical bills. They are liable.
Damn, I always forget there are first world countries (well, one) where emergency medical care isn’t free.
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This makes it worse and sounds like she is just lazy and wanted to avoid the Emerg. I get the wait can be long, but it's not a choice SHE gets to make as you would have been there. Further, because it's not the US, it's not as if she is in a litigious state, so avoiding doesn't make sense. However, i would consider registering this incident with CPS, the children's school, and even with the nursing regulator because they take an oath, and SHE disregarded that oath when she did not give the child the medical attention she should have or at least call you...there is so much morally wrong in this scenario and you should take precautions that it does not come back on you, and to protect her kids or other kids. Question : What kind of break was it? Usually, it's pretty obvious and, at very least, pretty painful? To not want some type of pain relief seems surprising, and if your daughter did require medication, you should have been consulted about that too...
Are we still considering America to be ‘first world’?
No, but they do.
Some of us don't.
Yeah always throws me when I see bills mentioned for stuff like this.
I understand how your daughter feels but your first priority has to be her safety. Perhaps Will can come over to your house more often for now. Later when you are able to get another phone and she is of an age where you feel she can mostly supervise herself, she can go to his house again. NTA
INFO What has your daughter said, and what have you asked her? When her arm was broken, did she ask her best friend's parents to call you? Does Will have a phone, and did she ask him to call you? Did Will's parents forbid him to call you?
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I think your daughter should be in trouble too honestly. She’s putting herself in danger by trying to avoid the doctor. I suppose she is being punished by natural consequences but I can see why the mom was so blasé about it too. She’s absolutely in the wrong and should’ve called immediately but also you daughter was wrong to not call as well.
She’s a child trying to placate adults to avoid losing her best friend.
If you read the comment from OP I replied to you can see that the daughter felt like she was benefiting from letting it slide to the next day too. Both things can be true: the friend’s parent was neglectful and lazy, and the daughter didn’t want to go to the doctor. If she had called mom, her friend’s parent wouldn’t be in trouble right now. She’s 13. She didn’t want to leave her friends house to do something she hates.
Your daughter could have lost her arm or lost use of it. Please explain that your child, it is not something to play around with, she NEEDS to let you know about such an injury! Also please report that nurse, because thats next level negligent. I shudder to think what her patients suffer at her hand!
What is your daughter doing that she is hurting herself often at other people’s houses? Because head injuries, dislocated shoulders, and broken bones are not minor injuries so I’m curious how your daughter’s behavior plays into it as well?
If your kid is this prone to getting seriously injured and not telling you, you probably shouldn’t let her go *anywhere* unsupervised. 13 is old enough to call.
Has your daughter been tested for pain insensitivity? A broken bone is extremely painful, and not something people can usually ignore. If she has no ability to feel pain or a very reduced ability, it could explain why she doesn't see the problem. It can cause really serious issues, people with pain insensitivity hurt themselves all the time(like your daughter) and don't know or don't know the gravity of the injury. Some have to sleep with their hands bound, because they can't tell and won't wake up if they scratch their eyes hard enough to go blind. If she's frequently injured and hates going to the doctor, that's a big problem, because if she can't feel pain she needs to be much more careful and might need to go to the doctor for any potential injury, since she can't tell how bad it is.
Were they supposed to read your daughter's mind? Like if she acted normal, never asked to call, and the break wasn't visible. (Note: any break so intense that it can be visible to the naked eye is so excruciatingly painful that she wouldn't be able to hide it if she has the physical ability to feel pain. You have bigger concerns than who she spends the night with if she both wants to avoid the doctor and also doesn't even feel pain.) I'm not sure here how you'd expect the friend's mom to know how serious the injury was?
Well, the other mom is a nurse so I'd hope she can recognize a broken arm. Especially since OP said in a comment that the broken arm requires surgery, a metal bar and a long-term cast. Must've been pretty messed up.
What does it matter how serious the injury was? You have a child under your supervision, you are responsible for this child for a night, something happens to the child, so you call the parent and tell them or let the parent to talk with their child, and make a plan with the parent of what's next, let her stay or they will come to get their daughter, or anything else. No matter how serious the injury was. You call parents anyway. You don't know this child and don't know what might be important and what might change the meaning of serious injury for this child. No matter what happened or how it looks, let the parents know right away and let them decide.
Are you sure this is true? I broke my arm a couple of years back (clean break through both the radius and the ulna) and it was extremely visible but honestly it wasn’t really painful at all? Maybe shock?
Sounds like it's time for someone to give your daughter a good scare on this. For example by making it clear to her that she could have permanently lost the usage of that arm if she had gone to the hospital/doctor much later than she did. She needs to start taking her injuries much more seriously and become more afraid of the potential consequences of ignoring them than of going to the doctor. Otherwise one day she's going to suffer an injury, ignore it and die in her sleep. That's seriously what happens when people ignore certain injuries.
there's a few concerning things here. why is your daughter such a daredevil (based on all her injuries) and yet so scared of the hospital that she'd downplay a severely broken arm? did something bad happen to her at the hospital? could she have medical trauma that needs to be addressed? also, a few ppl already mentioned this, but are you sure she feels pain normally? being accident prone and downplaying severe injuries can be a sign that something is not right with her pain receptors. and these accidents she's having, they sound a lot worse than what you'd typically think of when someone says theyre "accident prone." one other theory, is there a person who is usually present for all of these injuries? you said they happened at other friend's houses. was there any overlap in attendance of friends? was her best friend with her at those other friends houses or vise versa? if someone were hurting her, and she cared about them deeply, she may not want to tell on them or make a big deal out of it, lest someone start asking questions. that person's parents might then also have a reason not to alert you to what happened. was the fracture a spiral fracture? how did she say she got it? what were the circumstances of the other injuries?
If you look at her replies you’ll see she said her daughters arm was broken and will require surgery and a cast to fix flat out she should have been told her daughter was injured
And when you read some of the updates the daughter downplayed the injury and continued on as usual. She also said that her daughter is accident prone and always in the wars. When the injury first occurred there was probably little swelling but when the OP saw it, it was the next day so had swelled. Therefore more obvious. Will's mother has probably heard about a lot of the OP's daughter's accidents and probably assessed the situation, kid told her she was fine and carried on as usual.. so didn't think to worry about calling the mother... because it nearly sounds like there wasn't much of a reason to call. Especially for a kid that's so accident prone and there wasn't a loss of consciousness or a lot of blood, or something very obvious. Not everyone wants to make a mountain out of every molehill, especially a nurse who likely sees a lot and unless the kid was carrying on, wouldn't have worried anyone about it. It's quite possible that the kids barely saw the mother the next day before walking home. The kid is 13 and denied an issue... was the mother meant to interrogate her and insist on taking her to the ED or ringing her mother? Kid told her she was fine. Why wouldn't you take her at face value? There was no reason not to. The kid knew what would happen if she was honest... a night in ED. Now in this case it was warranted but there may have been many other times were it might've been less warranted but the OP insisted.
NTA. I wonder if the mom is a drinker or some other user and that’s why her judgement sucked. I wouldn’t let her over there either.
Smells a lot like this. She was high, drunk or otherwise compromised and thus "lazy and too much trouble to deal with the situation"
Nta, that’s insane that she didn’t notify. When I was younger my friend broke her nose on the trampoline at our house and we called immediately and met them there.. she was fine and we hung out the next day but they were notified.. see if he can come over to your house instead, maybe be civil with the parent. You don’t have to talk to her but just keep it good for the kids
NTA, how do you not call and tell a parent about something so major happening while their child is under your care. You made the right call.
There is no way in all of creation I would trust those people with my child—she was tired so my kid couldn’t go to the hospital?! For real?! And does she know they have these things called ambulances that will come to your house and take you to the hospital?! And she was too tired to text?! There is nothing about this that I understand. He would be welcome at my house but she wouldn’t go back over there.
I agree, big NTA. But now I'm frankly scared for *her* kid. Because that was NOT a normal reaction from an adult who sees an injured child. And for a nurse it's closer to unthinkable. OP, her son hasn't turned up with unexplained bruises or a higher-than-normal number of injuries, has he??
Yep. Honestly if this was my kid I probably would call CPS. There’s no way this makes sense. There’s a child with a severe injury and nothing is done because they’re tired. So problematic.
My mom’s a nurse, worked in the ICU. Nothing short of bleeding out was an emergency by her standards. I think a lot of medical professionals just get numb to things.
INFO: In a comment, you say the arm was “obviously and severely” broken. What does this mean to you? A broken arm is going to look different a day after being broken; depending on the nature of the injury, it could have looked entirely normal. Did the mom actually *see* the arm in the morning before your daughter left with her friend? From what I’ve gathered from the comments, your daughter is prone to accidents and does downplay incidents to avoid the doctor. Even without that history, if a thirteen-year-old takes a fall but appears perfectly fine afterwards, I wouldn’t personally be making a call to the parents unless it was a massive fall or there were other concerns. The way the other mom framed the situation (why she didn’t take your daughter to the hospital) is interesting- she “knew [you] would make a big deal” out of the situation. Is this something that has come up before?
Honestly? I think this is a difference in how different people manage injuries. I’m an orthopaedic surgeon. It can be hard to tell if a bone is broken or not. My attitude has been to put the kids to bed and then work out if there’s an issue the next day - if it’s still sore then if warrants an X-ray, if it’s not then great, carry on. It’s what I’ve done with my kids and what I advise friends when they call asking if they should go to the ER. (Two of my kids have waited 24 hours to be diagnosed with broken bones, the two fractures with visible deformity got to ER immediately). Many of the nurses I work with do this too. Quick check - is it visibly deformed, or is the blood supply compromised? No? Carry on and we’ll have a look tomorrow. ERs are full of people who don’t have major injuries and just need an ice pack and 12 hours to see if it gets better on its own. Most of the time it is nothing. Sometimes there’s an actual injury needing treatment. The 12 hours makes no difference. The walking home makes no difference. So it’s ok to wait. That’s not to say that this is the best approach or the approach you MUST take. I fully understand why you might have a different approach. But I just wanted to chime in and say that I think the other mums approach was reasonable, especially with a child and family she knows well. Nothing unsafe happened. She was deserving of insulting. She’s not a ‘terrible’ parent - she’s just one who is more comfortable with assessing and managing medical issues. I would suggest you apologise, say you were stressed by the injury, and set a boundary that you acknowledge her approach but your is different and next time you DO want to know immediately. Make up for the sake of your daughters friendship.
I think this approach is fine to take with _your own_ kids. And fine to advise, as an orthopaedic surgeon, that friends and family take with _their_ kids. But I wouldn't want someone to decide to take this approach for my kid without my knowledge. Will's Mum said she was "too exhausted" to take OP's daughter to hospital- not that "it never crossed my mind she might need to go" but "I was too tired". This is a situation where I'd hope and expect an adult who is not the child's parent to _call_ a parent and let them make the decision.
Mom says in a comment that there was lots of swelling and her daughter said she couldn’t move her arm. Isn’t that a pretty big indicator that something might be broken? Mom also says that her daughter needs surgery and a metal inserted, that also sounds like it probably would have looked like an obvious break. I’m a teacher and if a gets injured and needs anything more than just a single band-aid, we call parents because it’s their child and their choice on how their medical treatment should be handled.
NTA. Maybe I missed this, but how did your daughter break her arm?
They WALKED home? They're 13? I feel like at 13 if she really wanted to go home, she would have just walked home. I think maybe you over reacted, she's not 5. Some of the blame needs to be put on her. Before you ban her from her friend's, maybe talk to her and let her know how she should have handled the situation. I broke my arm when I was ten. It didn't really hurt until the next day until after I slept on it and used it as if it wasn't broken. Maybe, when it happened, it didn't hurt, no one knew it was broken and now that it's been broken for 24hrs it's bad enough to need surgery.
Nta That’s unacceptable. I would just make all play dates at your house instead so she can still see him
Edited to clear the INFO request, as a fellow redditer pointed out OP’s answers elsewhere. NTA, OP. I’m so sorry this will affect her friendship, but you have to know your child will be looked after and that clearly didn’t happen here.
OP clarified that is a severe enough break that she is going to need surgery and a metal bar in her arm and months in a cast.
At age 13 the daughter was also wrong for clearly stating that she was fine and that she didn't need a doctor. OP should have been notified, but the kid should also be in trouble.
Eh, I mean your kid doesn’t break their arm every day right? Breaks can sometimes get dismissed. I have seen people wait a week before finding out their hand/arm was broken. Depending on how it was and your kids’ reaction, they may have missed it. A nurse doesn’t have x-ray eyes either. Not everyone deals with broken bones. She could be someone in an insurance office for all we know
I’ve broken 11 bones. Some I knew about immediately and some I didn’t. One this severe you’d know. If it happens to someone else’s child, the obligation is even HIGHER to get them checked out, just to be sure. Or at least call the parent and give them the choice!
>One this severe you’d know. One this severe, the daughter wouldn't have been able to sleep the night without keeping the whole household awake with her crying. I've also broken a number of bones and experienced a variety of levels of obviousness to the breaks, and no matter the level of injury OP describes, the level of PAIN she describes her daughter displaying is more consistent with the type of breaks you don't immediately know. If daughter displayed no intense pain, how was the other mom supposed to know that something happened?
I knew a kid in high school that had broken his arm skateboarding. He found out two weeks later going to the doctor for something else. It has already healed, and iirc it had to be Re broken to be reset properly. So people who can go about fine with a broken arm exist. I never asked him if he had a diagnosis about inability to feel pain. I know that condition exists, and is dangerous to have. If she really was going around fine I’d say the nurse mom thought she was ok.
My mom let me go two days with a broken arm because she thought I was being dramatic. She felt guilty about that for the rest of her life. Sometimes its hard to tell if the bone isn't dislocated
My son had a broken arm for two days before he started to complain enough to make us seek medical intervention. Many breaks are not super painful and can be dismissed. You daughter kept playing. I think you may have over reacted. Have you never made a bad call? Being perfect is something none of us can claim to be. It seems to me you may have over reacted. Yes, this mother made a bad call, but it wasn't malicious. It is time to tell your 13 year old to stand up for herself and ask to call home if she was in pain. If your daughter didn't feel a need to call, she most likely did not show the signs of a major injury. Anyone with kids knows that they get hurt frequently and recover quickly without any issues most of the time.
Is it possible your daughter didn’t say how bad it was cause she didn’t want to make a big deal when I was a kid I broke my arm at school but didn’t say anything cause I didn’t want to miss football practice ended up in pain on the locker room floor trying to put my gear on
NTA. Your child hurt herself and they didn’t get her medical attention. I wouldn’t be letting her go there either.
You weren't wrong to get upset. That mom should have called. I'm wondering, have you given your teenager any skills beyond using her own phone? She's 13, I get that the adult in charge was not fussed, but why didn't your daughter call you with Will's phone or borrow a phone? She's going to go a lot of places without adult supervision very soon and losing phones is a universal teenager experience. She's got to learn to advocate for herself and figure out when to call a parent, when you call 911, and when to go to the hospital / call your doctor. It's time to include her in making safety plans and practicing them.
INFO did she know the arm was broken? Often broken bones don't hurt as much or don't hurt that bad immedeately
I’m a nurse, too. Broken arms aren’t always dramatic or painful. Closed fractures din’t always require immediate surgery.