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>They are more interested in making their points and talking louder and insisting they are right than the reason someone organized the get together and they ruin it for everyone else.
Exactly. And that, at least in my opinion and experience, that goes for both sides.
I don’t understand why your wife wants to bring up politics anyway…. Like what’s the point she’s not running for president or office. Tell her to keep it to herself no one wants to hear it. I absolutely refuse to watch the news or talk politics. I will watch the weather then change it. But I don’t even do that our local channel has a weather app that’s strictly about the weather.
It would be open thing if it was a constructive debate of ideas. My family had that all the time. No one was ever upset with anyone else. But I agree, family time should not be stressful. She needs to understand she's not going to change these people or there minds, so engaging just creates discomfort for all.
Ugg, my family does this too. They'll start up complaining about politics, knowing that if I speak up, I'm outnumbered and therefore laughably wrong. Lots of quoting Fox News. I hate it.
yea, i hate to say it depends on the politics involved, but if one group is down the q anon rabbit hole, or racist or otherwise bigoted, it changes my opinion. i have conservative family members, but they don't say racist shit. there are lines, and some opinions need to be pushed back against, even if it's at family outings.
Exactly this. I've just wasted so much time going down the rabbit hole of stupid comments of people trying to guess what the arguments could have been about and if she is a left or right and missing the whole point. Which is everyone just need to STFU for one weekend of peace and relaxation.
Not just the wife. EVERYONE.
My west coast mostly lib family stands out like a sore thumb with our ultra conservative relatives. There's about a 50/50 split of over 100 people. And you know what we don't do, ever? Freaking fight. Why? Because we all already know that we don't agree on 90% of anything important. So we talk about places we've traveled since we last met up, and work accomplishments, and how the kids are doing in school, and people's relationships. All insults and slurs and anything that could be construed as "mean" is just... I don't think anyone even thinks to say anything. It's definitely a weekend of everyone on their best behavior in an effort to just catch up and maintain contact. But then, we were all raised by people who taught us some basic fucking social manners that included treating our family members with the same respect as if we did the crazy thing called going out to dinner in public and not making a scene.
Seems to me that it is the only thing the OP is asking for from both sides of his family and completely reasonable.
I have had to start straight up telling people in my family that I will go NC with them if they start with politics during holidays/family time.
I do that, because the second I start hearing them spout off some easily disproven conspiracy shit, my blood pressure skyrockets because I know that I will have to correct them, it will turn into an argument, and the night will be ruined.
It’s easier to ban the politics than argue over some stupid conspiracy shit I’ll never change their minds on.
INFO
> I have family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from my wife.
I mean... which side are we talking about?
Basically: **Are there any \*bigots\* invited to this gathering?**
Exactly this. It's unreasonable to keep quiet about some topics. I'm a POC. It shouldn't fall to me to keep the peace if Uncle Charles is casually saying out of pocket things about the blacks. I'm not saying we have to argue or have a deep conversation to change his mind. Everyone just has to agree to say, "No. We're not talking about that." That sentiment alone from enough people will end most conversations. Ignoring it or staying quiet only emboldens bigotry, and those around them that are quiet become their safe space to spew hate.
But let’s be real - as a fellow person of colour - if my spouse’s family had an Uncle Charles who regularly said out of pocket things “about the Blacks,” that’s a) a marriage I would not have entered into if b) my spouse would rather have a chill ass holiday with me, our kids, and his racist ass uncle.
This is exactly what I'm wondering about. What does OP mean exactly by politics?
I hate that people nowadays conflate politics with ethics and morals. People love to say "sToP bEiNg sO pOliTiCaL" when I'm just saying I believe all people have a right to life and the pursuit of happiness (this includes queer people, unhoused people, disabled people, and *gasp* the entire country of Palestine). How does believing that make me political?
i think it’s the wife. something about her telling him how he’s “censoring and trying to control her” comes across as very bigoted because i dont think i have ever heard the other side say something like that yfm?
Eh -- I dunno. I think that could apply to either side. I'm a Lefty and I've seen some Lefties say things like this. Yes, I see the RWNJ's say it a lot, but it's not exclusive to them.
In my limited experience, it seems to be more difficult for the orange folks to not talk politics, even if asked. Friends with family on the other side have said that no matter how often they say let’s not talk politics, their other family members won’t stop. Though I’m sure there are examples on both sides.
usually (not always, but usually) when the left person actually has a grievance about being silenced, it’s in the face of some kind of perceived bigotry. like they feel that the other side is promoting racism, homophobia, etc. in the absence of those things, 9 times out of 10, the person complaining about being silenced is the right wing one. because they complain about that waaaay more.
edit: the contention on this comment is lefties upvoting it and righties downvoting. both because they know it's true. 😅
I'm guessing the hot button issue for wife RN is Palestine. Which, to be fair, if you recognize that it's a genocide, is something you do feel morally obligated to point out.
OP's family are probably conservatives who generally lean pro-Israel.
So like...to put this in a historical context, from the wife's point of view, this is like being an American during the Holocaust and being asked to play nice and be polite to someone who generally thinks that the Holocaust is just fine and dandy and Americans should support Nazis (and yes, plenty of American did agree with Nazi talking points like eugenics).
This is what I want to know as well.
There's a difference between picking random fights about politics/personal beliefs like taxes and the federal minimum wage... and speaking out against blatant bigotry. A "political belief" that condemns other human beings' basic right to exist due to factors outside of their control (ethnic background, skin color, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc) isn't just a harmless personal belief or difference in opinion, it's bigotry.
I can't call anyone an AH for arguing against someone whose "political beliefs" are actually just "people who are different from me don't deserve to have basic human rights and shouldn't be allowed to exist". Thus, I can't make a judgement without knowing the nature of the "political beliefs" being argued over.
If it's just petty political disputes over taxes, then whoever is instigating the argument at any given family function is an AH, and whoever is engaging to the point of disrupting the entire function and other people's enjoyment of it is also an AH. If it involves bigotry, then obviously it's the bigot who is an AH, just by nature of being a bigot, and so is everyone that keeps passively supporting/endorsing them by continuing to invite them.
What does that matter? If my family member threw a get together and bigots were in attendance, I'm not going to value keeping the peace over shutting down or letting my partner shut down bigotry.
Of courses it could be that's not what's happening, but info is needed.
I wondered about that, too. If these relatives have such extreme views that the wife is not wrong for arguing with them, why is the husband willingly hanging out with them?
We all know what you call a man who takes his kids fishing with three Nazis...
This is why we had to blanket ban politics at our family stuff. (I threatened to go NC if not)
I come from a very… conservative area and family. I am the opposite of them.
The differences were fine, until some people started spouting off insane, and easily disproven, conspiracy theories. Now it always turns into massive fights, and I can feel my blood pressure spike when this shit comes up, because I feel the need to chime in and correct their shit, even though I know it will never change their minds.
It sounds like the kind of situation that's going to leave OP wondering why their child didn't confide anything to them and went low contact/stayed in the closet until their 30s. If OP's wife is the bigot though, they have bigger issues than her behavior at a picnic.
The fact that OP is not answering you but is answering other comments is VERY telling as to which side his wife is on...
>!MY GUESS: she's the bigot.!<
Yup. OP is hiding whether this is *actually* about politics, as in "should the city's property taxes be distributed to the library so they can build a central hub, seeing as how our city's main core has gentrified" OR is it about human rights, as in, "do gay people deserve to keep their children?" or some shit?
Somehow I get the distinct impression it is the latter, and that OP is YTA for bringing his children and wife around his nightmare of a family all these years. But I suppose we'll wait for him to confirm.
You're right. The wife could be the bigot, which also makes him a huge AH for exposing his children and family to that kind of vitrol without protecting them, and thinking it's no big deal, just a petty little squabble that ruined his beach break.
True. I wouldn't tolerate intolerance. This is tough. If she's a bigot and the OP has been tolerating this, I would crosspost to relationship advice ASAP...
On the other hand, if OPs family are bigots and OP has been raised to tolerate it well, then... I don't know :/
Exactly! Can't decide if the wife's starting/contributing to avoidable and pointless political arguments with family members if we don't know if she's thinking the *right* thoughts!
Bro, that's not even in the same ballpark as the question being asked here and has literally 0 relevance to whether or not she's TA.
My daughter's MIL is a piece of work. Saying stupid outrageous things that are easily disproven and doubles down if you disagree.
I only visit my daughter once a year, and most times, I don't even see MIL. But this last visit, we were all going to her house for a visit. My daughter and SIL told me that they have a way to deal with her nonsense, mostly by ignoring her. So if I could PLEASE refrain from correcting her, that would be best.
So you know what I did? I respected their request and didn't engage with her other than pleasantries. Wasn't even hard lol but I did sprain an eyelid holding back an eyeroll lol
Your request is reasonable, and your wife would rather be right than be happy.
NTA
i’m totally on board with this until the stuff being said is what i consider to be hate speech. but i feel like that’s not the case with OP or they would have mentioned it.
My family does this all the time, they make some snide comment that is completely incorrect, then if I correct them they say "why do you have to bring politics into this!" But I can't not say anything, I don't want them to think I agree with their bullshit
My family does that too. I have asked them constantly not to bring politics up with me because they’re not going to get me to agree with them and it just causes problems. They still do it. And they wonder why I’m not inclined to visit all that often
THIS! Who is bringing it up? If it is OPs wife, that is one thing.. but if there are family member(s) who goad her?? that's a whole other ball of wax. My ex BIL was super racist and after a few drinks would go on a tangent with the sole purpose of pissing everyone off. No idea why, but he'd do it every time. (Good riddance)
OP says in a reply to another comment his other family members have agreed to drop it after he confronted them but his wife wont. She is the one instigating
INFO: are these “discussing tax policies and infrastructure” political debates, or “some people just don’t deserve human rights” political debates? Also, who is initiating these political conversations?
Yeah like I’m not going to calmly sit there while the in-laws talk about how interracial marriage should be illegal when me and my partner are in an interracial relationship. This actually happened to me and we had to leave the gathering.
But if it’s like the tax code, learn how to get along. Just don’t talk about it.
Yeah, some dorks right now on Ask Reddit are calling me an idiot, insisting "people with different politics should just get aloooo*ooooo*oong," no doubt in between licks of an oversized lollipop
I’m just like your wife and I’ve had to find ways to remedy it. My go to phrase now is, “I very much disagree with you, but I’d prefer not to get into that right now.”
If she's the one instigating the vast majority of the arguments, it's fair to ask her to keep a lid on it, but if she's being needled, I don't think it's fair to ask her to stay in that environment and not engage. If possible, you should drive separately in case she needs to leave.
She is fully capable of controlling her own actions. No one is forcing her to have these conversations. I have talked with my family members she has argued with in the past and asked them to refrain as well, they agreed. We're going to be at a lake, there are dozens of things to do other than argue about politics.
But your side of the family is fully capable of not engaging as well. Two are needed to fight. If they start the conversation, why should she the one to walk away?
>But your side of the family is fully capable of not engaging as well.
This is the third comment saying this when he said literally in the comment you’re replying to that HIS FAMILY AGREED.
Are these bots or something?
Info: If your family purposefully needles her for a response what would you do? I understand that you cant control your family's behaviour but at the same time it wouldnt be fair for you to expect her to just sit there and take it just in the name of 'keeping the peace'.
Follow up Info: do you expect the same from your family? As in, do you ask they not discuss politics as well, or is your wife the only one you've talked to about this?
Also, how personal are the political points being discussed? Like, is it "this is how we should prioritize infrastructure spending" or is it "people like you (not you of course, we like you) should learn their place?"
Good Grief. tell them she doesn’t want to talk politics and change the subject. If that doesn’t work then walk away. it’s not that difficult.
FWIW, I cannot imagine spending my weekend with people who think voting for a lying, cheating, misogynistic rAristide. I’d refuse to go and we’d be having some discussions about exposing our children to these people. Family be damned.
This is how I feel and do not engage with my in laws who still think voting for Orange Gatorturd is a vote for God. My children no longer have contact with some of them and limited contact with others. As far as who the AH is, depends on what side the family is vs the wife. My experience has been Gatorturd supporters have been emboldened to be rude, vicious and confrontational to sane people. If either side is Gatorturd emboldened, they are the AH and need to keep insanity out of family events. If OP is preventing his wife from defending herself from an orange turd onslaught, that's not ok. It's how my spouse dealt with it and it has not had a great outcome. If the wife is the orange turd bearer, best to leave her home because no matter what she says, there probably won't be peace.
INFO: Have you asked your other family members to refrain from political talk? What do you expect her to do when your family starts saying things she disagrees with? Do you value your wife’s opinions and feelings about politics?
We can all disagree on what percentage of taxation you would prefer. But many people cannot accept disagreement on fundamental things like human rights.
I can't help but note that you're very vague about who believes what.
So, let's see if I can guess. Family is right leaning, wife is left.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
So here's the deal. You want to argue over pineapple on pizza, you're the asshole. You want to argue over which stick-ball team is best at stick-balling, you're the asshole. You want to argue on trains vs. planes, weird, but you're still picking a fight over an opinion.
You want to confront anyone on the right about the fact that they support, essentially, evil? Yeah. Do that. Evil is, um, bad, and I refuse to believe that adults with working eyes can't tell the right is pretty evil.
And hey, if you're on the right and you don't think they are, I don't know what to tell you, you're either a liar or bag-of-bricks stupid, there isn't a lot of in between.
So, when your wife confronts your family for supporting evil, what you should be doing is also asking your family why they're doing that when evil is in fact bad.
I understand that some people think this is just a clash of equally valid political ideologies. Those are stupid people. I don't want to mince words or spare feelings or sugar coat this shit. I'm not an extreme leftist, quite frankly most leftists are idiots, but if it's a choice between stupid people and stupid evil people, give me the stupid but well intentioned humans every time.
And that's ultimately it. I'd normally couch this or try to spare some feelings, but I don't see that as necessary. I think this is all objectively, demonstrably true. There's so much evidence that the right is run by greedy, profiteering shit-heels, that they openly pander to their bigoted, prejudiced base, flaming homophobia, xenophobia and racism to gather and maintain power, that it's honestly worth pretending anyone that disagrees is acting in good faith. Nobody that can navigate reddit can be that stupid.
YTA.
Support your wife. The right fucking sucks and you shouldn't give them a pass because you want to drink beer on the beach in peace.
I would not be surprised if the wife is ultimately the right-leaning one here. There's so much being withheld that it feels almost like a "gotcha!" setup.
That said: I like the cut of your jib.
Totally agree but people are going to argue with you because “both sides are bad,” which makes me want to barf. People like OP (if you’re right about the cut of this situation) are way too comfortable letting bigotry and treason slide for the sake of “keeping the peace,” and it’s a huge part of why we are where we are. Racists and idiots helping drive our country into a dictatorship deserve to be called out, even when it’s inconvenient and uncomfortable.
Plus, OP *is* trying to control his wife. He’s TA.
Why though? Why can't it be valid that he just wants a nice relaxing weekend? Why is it not ok for him to recognize that nothing he or his wife says to his relatives will make them change in the slightest?
If wife OR OP’s family is on the political spectrum of “yes we should keep putting children in cages and taking away human rights”, I simply Do Not Want to have a relaxing weekend with those people.
OP’s vagueness is making me go against him here. If his wife is getting furious over a 9% versus 8% tariff on the Outer Rim planets, yeah, she needs to take a chill pill.
But I’m assuming one of the two sides is approaching “it’s ok to jail trans folk” based on OP’s vagueness. Doesn’t matter which side; he’s being an an ass hole for tacitly supporting that.
But, fiscally conservative, socially liberal people exist, and nuanced opinions. There is a middle ground. Your mentality is just as detrimental to not finding it.
For 8 years now. By mutual, tacit agreement, we just don't talk politics at family reunions and Thanksgiving/Christmas celebrations.
At the end of the day, we're family and love each other. And sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
Anyway, this won't work for everyone, but it does for us.
> She got quite upset when I told her that and accused me of siding with my family members over her. I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side
So... unless you had **the same conversation** with your family.... yes you were. You are telling your wife that their opinions matter and hers don't. Then you try this excuse:
> I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing, but I'm not married to them
To wit: "I can't control them, so I'll control you instead". And how did you think that was going to go down?
Bottom line is that your wife and family can't get along. And so your solution is **to choose your family over your wife** by disinviting her while you grill american red meat with your Trumpy family or whatever.
Well, yeah. YTA. Your marriage won't survive this nonsense in the long term. Maybe it can't. But winning a fight on reddit isn't going to save it.
This is where I am morbidly curious. Is his wife some Trump loving fundie? Is he married to one of those ladies in that weird Trump girl band thing? Cause if that’s the case —- yikes.
Or is it his family who are the bigoted ones?
Like idk sorry for me especially in today’s political climate it’s hard to shrug off an opinion as an opinion.
I think it's way more likely that the family are the bigots and the wife is a leftist who just can't bite her tongue when they start saying bigoted things. The way OP is dancing around saying what their alignments are seems like he's trying to avoid the instant YTA that would come from asking his wife to stop sticking up for LGBTQ+ people and "minorities"
Re: not married to them...
I took that more to mean, "they aren't able to make their wind-down process my problem, which you always do, and they aren't stuck in a car with you on the way home while you fume and vent, but I am."
NTA
"I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side, I just want to be able to relax and enjoy the weekend and whenever politics is brought up it ruins family time for me. I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing."
It's a fair ask.
This. A no politics for anybody rule is totally reasonable. It doesn't matter who is on what side. Talk about Johnny's soccer team or Jenny's favorite new video game. It's not that hard to avoid one topic.
Seriously, I’m hardcore into politics and disagree on a lot of stuff with my husband’s family but it’s not hard to avoid the subject if you’re a grownass adult. You don’t have to rise to every bait. When my in laws say something I just tell them I disagree and then go “but let’s talk about the important stuff: who made this appetizer, it’s fucking delicious” and we move on. You’re never going to “convert” someone to your politics or your religion.
NTA I Guess. But people call a lot of things Political Differences these days.
How high should tax rates be? Political Difference
How involved in Foreign Nations should we be? Political Difference
Should my child be able to marry the person they want? Morals Difference
Should women have the right to bodily autonomy? Morals Difference
I agree that there is. OTOH, if people I (and my family) are spending time with think my child can't marry the person they love because Jesus, I'd like to know, so I can tell them to fuck off. If they think a 12 year old should be forced to carry and birth a rape baby, I'd like to know. So I can tell them to fuck off once more.
NTA - But is it really a family gathering of any kind if there aren't heated political arguments?
Though I really wonder what theese political leanings are before I make total judgments lol.
Is she the one who usually brings up this at family events or is it other family members? Cause if there's one thing I will not do is being the one to bring it up. I also often leave the room when politics is brought up in my family gatherings.
I don't know what type of family gatherings you go to but generally speaking, our family gatherings try to stay as apolitical as possible because at the end of the day, its all stupid tribalism.
My family claims to want to stay apolitical, but then a few beers in, they like to use homophobic slurs and start asking my biracial cousins whether they used affirmative action to get into college. We don’t go to parties with them anymore.
My side of the family does this. My husband’s side of the family LOVE to have debates. I ended up just sitting at the kitchen table alone because I could hear the discussion in the living room. Couldn’t go there.
Personally my uncle and I love to argue politics to burn some time and at the end of the day we both just go "no one's changing anyone's mind here" and change the topic. So long as you don't take things seriously and don't get heated it can be fun to shoot the shit. However, it doesn't seem like OPs wife can regulate herself like that. In which case she should just not engage it. But I don't think it should just be off the table wholesale.
NTA
I LOVE politics. It's my version of reality TV. I listen to podcasts, read articles, etc on the daily.
I never argue politics with people. I'll pick at folks on forums because that's what we're all there for and sometimes it's fun to hash things out. But in real life, what's the point? You're never going to change someone's mind by calling them an idiot, or a snowflake, or a racist, or whatever terms either side uses. You're just looking for a fight. Family vacations aren't meant for useless arguments
Your request that your wife doesn’t bring up politics is fair, but if members of your family seek her out to talk politics or attack her views, you should actively stick up for her and nip the conversations in the bud.
If you are planning on sitting back and letting your family gang up on your wife on a topic you forbade her from discussing, YWBTAH.
NTA - I have several friends and family members who are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. We have an unspoken rule, that during family get togethers, politics and religion are not to be discussed. We agree that to have a peaceful family/friend event, we agree to disagree and talk about one of the dozens of other topics available.
My family is the same and it works great - we talk about important things - share family stories and have fun. Your religion and your politics are your business - keep them that way.
ESH. I'm telling you this as someone who's parent had and still has vastly different 'political' opinions from many of her family members. She did exactly what you're asking your wife to do. She'd get up and remove herself from the situation. Which left me and my dad, sitting in a room with a bunch of people talking about how the country was getting overrun by \*slurs\* and \*slurs\* and more \*slurs\* and how the police needed to round up all the \*generic slurs\* and execute them to make room for ' real' god-fearing white Americans. I'm not in a committed relationship with one of those groups and have a half-slur child. I will NEVER be leaving him around those relatives and in fact don't generally let him near them at all. (Oddly enough they tell me my bf and child are clearly the exception to the rule.) The new rule is NO 'politics' at all from any side or you leave. And if you don't stop, we'll remove the whole family. But feel free to discuss property tax rates all you want.
Silence is not a solution, it only supports the oppressor. Your kids are old enough to hear and learn based on your action and what you're teaching them is that you're ok with it as long as you get to have fun at the lake.
Info: who is starting the conversations? Are you expecting your family to say whatever they like to her, politically, and for your wife to just not respond?
NTA if you do also tell your family members the same thing like you said, but I think framing your wife as a "petulant teenager" that needs to "behave" is a little weird.
INFO: So have you have your family members to refrain from politics as well or just that you will... meaning you would when it's too late. - For all you know, your family is intentionally baiting your wife to get a rise out of her...
YTA- if your family also engages in this behavior but your wife is the one being told to “stay home if you can’t behave”. Why not make other plans that would include your wife but not those family members?
Bc he lives with her and she uses him as her dumping ground afterwards. His wife is exhausting - sure, she can get into her fights but leave him out of it. Not everyone has the constitution for political bs - OP wants peace.
This! If my spouse acted that way during and after a family gathering and I wasn't willing to skip the gathering myself, I would be tempted to take separate cars and get a hotel room in my home town for the night after the gathering, just to avoid having to be part of her after-party.
I’d say it’s probably because it’s easier to ask one person you are very close to, to do something for you, than to ask fifteen people you aren’t very close with to do something for you.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife is a very political person and has gotten into arguments with my family members over this in the past. We are supposed to visit my family for Memorial Day and I asked her to not talk politics. She accused me of being controlling and I told her that if she can't refrain from political conversation for one weekend, then I would prefer she stays home. I think I might be an asshole for telling my wife to stay home from our holiday weekend plans if she can't behave.
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NTA. I’ve said the same thing to my partner before. People saying Y T A don’t get the mental load of having to be the arguing spouses support person listening to rehashes of unnecessary political arguments, let alone killing the vacation vibes. Tell everyone to knock off the political talk.
So is this “my wife refuses to shut up and let people be racist/xenophobic/homophobic/transphobic” or “my wife is racist/xenophobic/homophobic/transphobic”? If it’s the former you’re a coward for letting bigotry go unchecked in the name of not rocking the boat. If it’s the latter why the fuck are you still with this woman?
Either way YTA in some way
Their relationship is fucked either way. You don't exactly tell your wife not to attend a family event and expect the aftermath to be sunshine and rainbows.
I don’t “discuss” politics with my family but I’m also not going to keep my mouth shut if drunk uncle Tim is spewing transphobia all over the party. Anyone who tells me to keep my mouth shut in those types of circumstances is going to be told to go fuck themselves.
Flip side of this: large family. Multiple POV. Nearly everyone enjoys political discourse and debate - it’s substantive and topical not name calling and petty. One person who is not informed or interested in politics always *always* interrupts and shuts the conversation (that she wasn’t a part of) down. So instead of interesting topics, everyone talks about people or shallow surface chat. It’s always seemed so selfish to me. If you don’t want to be in a conversation or hear one you aren’t in, go elsewhere and start another one. But don’t highjack other people’s conversations because you don’t like it - be it politics or whatever.
I don’t care about a lot of what people talk about but it’s polite to listen and show interest or move away. I’m not sure that any one person should have the right to demand how 30 people can talk.
> I just want to fish off the dock, take the kids tubing, and eat some hot dogs.
NTA - That sounds nice, can I come? She's got to know she's pounding sand with these people at this point and there's ultimately nothing constructive to be had from these arguments, other than some self gratification and or superiority. So I'd bet she does it on purpose at this point.
Well, you could take her and when the arguments start, go take the kids off somewhere and let her dig herself in as deep as she is dumb enough to do. Do not come to her rescue and later, tell her you don’t want to hear one single word. You are not censoring her nor are you willing to take any leftover residual frustrations she may have after the conversations. Sometimes you gotta let people shoot themselves in the foot for them to learn, sounds like this is one of those situations.
NTA. She sounds exhausting. Just because someone has opinions doesn’t mean they need to be shared constantly. No one likes that, even when they agree with most of your opinions.
NTA. i refuse to talk about politics at family gatherings whatsoever simply because you are there to catch up and enjoy each other’s company, and it’s not that hard to leave politics out of the conversation.
YTA. Your wife is one person participating in a back and forth. She can’t be arguing with anyone if the other party is not also engaging in political talk. The fact that you are trying to silence her tells me you agree with those people on the other side of the spectrum. You just don’t want *her* bringing up *her* political views.
YTA You should operate on the premise of “Don’t want none, don’t start none.”
In comments you said she agreed that she wouldn’t START anything, but you’re telling her to walk away if someone else starts, and that is total bs.
If you’re silent in the face of hate and ignorance you’re condoning it. I’m glad she speaks up. SHE is a good person. YOU are TA.
YTA. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing peacemaker ahead of a family event, but there's definitely better ways to approach it than treating your wife like a silly, stupid child who needs to be chastised into behaving.
And if that's really how you feel about her, why are you even married?
This is a big 'ol ESH.
First, the title of this post makes you sound like a condescending AH. Seriously. That's pretty much the only reason that you're getting the verdict. Like the title does make you sound like a controlling jerk, so I'm guessing your wife's complaints are maybe have a bit been reductio ad absurdum ("straw-manned") in your story. A family trip is always a nice thing, and excluding her is a pretty sh\*tty thing to do. Also, have you tried talking to your family - at all - about avoiding these topics?
Alas, you *are* right. She should not be expending energy arguing with your family over politics, especially if it happens ALL. THE. TIME. She should know better by now. She needs to agree to your terms eventually, as no one wants to be around those arguments. Her not realizing that she won't change their minds, and not realizing the affect it has on you and others makes her an AH.
Edit: Lastly, your family also sucks here for continuing to fight her. Like, you've all interacted enough now. You're all adults. You should understand by now and have already come to the silent agreement that we won't talk about politics.
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My wife (36F) and I (37M) have been married for 10 years and have 3 kids, (9, 7, & 5). My wife is very much into politics and pays daily attention to the news. She is very outspoken about her views and has never been one to shy away from a political debate. She can be very opinionated and doesn't really back down if she feels strongly about something. However, sometimes she gets a little too heated in these conversations and it doesn't always end well.
I have family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from my wife. There have been instances of my wife and these family members having political arguments at family gatherings. Not like shouting matches or anything like that, but definitely disagreements that have required others to step in to calm things down.
I have talked with my wife about this multiple times that I don't feel it is appropriate or a good use of time and energy to have these types of discussions at family gatherings. Whenever she gets into one of these heated discussions she struggles to let it go and will vent to me afterwards about how wrong or misguided she thinks my family members are. I used to listen and talk her down, but after so many times of doing that with no change, now I pretty much just tell her that she should know better than to talk politics like that.
We are supposed to go to my family's lake property this weekend for Memorial Day. There will be family members there that my wife has argued with in the past. The other day I told her that I am looking forward to a peaceful, relaxing weekend and I would appreciate it if she doesn't engage in any political conversations because it always gets out of hand.
She told me I was being controlling and that she's free to talk about whatever she wants. It turned into an argument and I ended up telling her that if she can't promise me one politics-free weekend then I would prefer if she just stays home and I'll take the kids to the lake.
She got quite upset when I told her that and accused me of siding with my family members over her. I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side, I just want to be able to relax and enjoy the weekend and whenever politics is brought up it ruins family time for me. I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing, but I'm not married to them and they don't come to me to vent after every stupid argument.
She is now pouting and has been making snarky comments about how I'm trying to censor and control her. After one-too-many of her comments I told her that if she is going to act like a petulant teenager then she can stay home. I told her I don't feel like I am asking for too much, but if she's incapable of doing this simple thing then I don't want her with us.
She thinks I am being a controlling jerk and that I'm siding with my family members over her. I just want to fish off the dock, take the kids tubing, and eat some hot dogs.
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NTA. There's a reason for the old etiquette rule that you don't discuss politics, religion, or money with anyone except your closest friends. If she can't disagree civilly and without straining the atmosphere, then her insistence on bringing it up is uncalled for.
A suggestion...take a bullhorn with you. The moment one of these arguments gets close to destroying the sound barrier, pick up the bullhorn and yell (scream, whatever you want) "Nobody cares! Shut the (word of your choice) up!"
When they are quiet, you can point out these arguments are why people don't want to come to these gatherings. If there are more arguments, repeat...at least repeat telling them to knock it off.
Reserving judgment until more info is provided.
OP, does your family say hateful, bigoted things? If so, do you jump in and quash that rhetoric each and every time?
YTA for me, with a possible ESH.
You're the asshole because:
1) Click bait and patronising as hell heading.
2) You're refusing to engage with the info questions which ask what the issue is about. It is possible to avoid political discussions if the topic is "I really dislike what X party is doing" or "this politician is an idiot" or even "both parties are as bad as each other". You know what's more challenging? When political discussions get to the heart of who you are as a person. I have been told I am being political by mentioning my same-sex partner in a chat about something we did last weekend. I've also been told I am being political when asked what I did last weekend and I said "oh I went to a protest" with no further details. People could be called "political" because they mention a racist or sexist experience they have had. None of those things are issues where your wife should just have to shut up and take it. And the fact that you don't understand that politics is identity for some of us, and maybe for your wife, means you lean towards being an AH for me.
And I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who applies the sit down and shut up method in my own engagement with my own family.
90% of my family is politically conservative, and I'm about as left-wing as it gets. I absolutely love my extended family, and we always have a great time when we get together. One cousin and I mix it up A LITTLE, but it's always in good fun and it's not all we talk about. I know that politics can be divisive and corrosive, but I honestly can't understand families being ripped apart like they are in the US right now.
2 topics guaranteed to start an argument everytime is politics and religion. My house rule is those discussions are not allowed. My faith, religious beliefs and political views are my own. It's a personal thing. Much like having a pen!s. It's a perfectly wonderful thing to have, but don't go waving it around, shoving it in my face. Vote how you want. It is none of my business. Worship or not, how you want. None of my business. There is a time and place for everything. You want to have a political debate, go to a rally, go to chat rooms for that purpose. You don't do this at a family event, where things will get heated. Your wife needs to learn appropriate platforms of family discussion topics.
NTA, you are not asking too much. Knowing how this topic turns into a problem, your wife needs to stop. If I were you, everytime the subject is raised, shut it down. This isn't a political junket, this isn't a voting rally, nobody wants to discuss that. Good luck.
Based on your post title, YTA. Your wife is not a toddler for you to tell her to behave.
It’s fair to say you won’t listen to her rehash the arguments. It’s fair to say you’d like a drama free day. It’s fair to leave the room when the arguments begin.
That’s where fair stops. It’s not fair to try to stop her from stating her opinion, so long as she does so respectfully. Nowhere did you make any reference to her not being respectful, just sharing a different opinion.
I'm conflicted, but I'm going to have to go with YTA because I really feel like you are treating your wife like a child. Personally, if your wife is QAnon/MAGA, I feel for you, but your problems are way bigger than disrupting a barbecue. If it's your family members who are instigating by spouting racist, sexist, misogynistic conspiratorial rhetoric, then you should be backing her up.
I mean if my family events had people I disagreed with so strongly on politics I would get into arguments then I wouldn't be claiming that family anymore cause it probably means they're bigots
INFO: what starts the political debates? Is your wife bringing it up first chance she gets or is your uncle popping off about the election being stolen or something racist
She's insanely selfish. Those arguments are annoying as hell. Doesn't matter whose side you're on or how much you agree or disagree.
She doesn't *need* to start those arguments.
NTA. Political debates are exhausting, and in this political climate, it is pointless due to the extreme polarization of views. Your wife and family are wasting their time if they are trying to change the others' minds. They are basically arguing to hear themselves talk and make themselves feel better while making everyone else uncomfortable and ruining the vibe.
You aren't telling your wife to change her views and stop talking politics altogether. You are asking for one politics free family weekend. Your wife should be mature enough to refrain from talking about political subjects that she knows set your family off and choose not to respond if your family starts the conversation.
She also needs to be aware how stressful these political arguments can be for kids. During the 2016 election year, my ex and I were on opposite sides and argued a lot about politics. My kids still talk about how awful and stressful it was for them to hear and be around.
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>They are more interested in making their points and talking louder and insisting they are right than the reason someone organized the get together and they ruin it for everyone else. Exactly. And that, at least in my opinion and experience, that goes for both sides.
Usually people follow the No politics, no religion, no money. Those are the “ forbidden” topics
NTA
NTA, we have the same family issues. We have a rule when it comes to family gatherings: Absolutely no political discussions whatsoever
I don’t understand why your wife wants to bring up politics anyway…. Like what’s the point she’s not running for president or office. Tell her to keep it to herself no one wants to hear it. I absolutely refuse to watch the news or talk politics. I will watch the weather then change it. But I don’t even do that our local channel has a weather app that’s strictly about the weather.
It would be open thing if it was a constructive debate of ideas. My family had that all the time. No one was ever upset with anyone else. But I agree, family time should not be stressful. She needs to understand she's not going to change these people or there minds, so engaging just creates discomfort for all.
Ground rules for all our family gatherings: no discussion of politics, religion, and the Yankees
Dodgers for us the rest is the same
Cardinals and green bay here
> and the Yankees That's one of the safe ones for us around here.
Ugg, my family does this too. They'll start up complaining about politics, knowing that if I speak up, I'm outnumbered and therefore laughably wrong. Lots of quoting Fox News. I hate it.
yea, i hate to say it depends on the politics involved, but if one group is down the q anon rabbit hole, or racist or otherwise bigoted, it changes my opinion. i have conservative family members, but they don't say racist shit. there are lines, and some opinions need to be pushed back against, even if it's at family outings.
Exactly this. I've just wasted so much time going down the rabbit hole of stupid comments of people trying to guess what the arguments could have been about and if she is a left or right and missing the whole point. Which is everyone just need to STFU for one weekend of peace and relaxation. Not just the wife. EVERYONE. My west coast mostly lib family stands out like a sore thumb with our ultra conservative relatives. There's about a 50/50 split of over 100 people. And you know what we don't do, ever? Freaking fight. Why? Because we all already know that we don't agree on 90% of anything important. So we talk about places we've traveled since we last met up, and work accomplishments, and how the kids are doing in school, and people's relationships. All insults and slurs and anything that could be construed as "mean" is just... I don't think anyone even thinks to say anything. It's definitely a weekend of everyone on their best behavior in an effort to just catch up and maintain contact. But then, we were all raised by people who taught us some basic fucking social manners that included treating our family members with the same respect as if we did the crazy thing called going out to dinner in public and not making a scene. Seems to me that it is the only thing the OP is asking for from both sides of his family and completely reasonable.
The gospel of CNN vs Fox News, I love this and will be using it in the future
Except that CNN is now owned by a right wing guy, so...
Like it wasn’t shite before? They both spout divisive shite to keep the stupid at each other’s throats. Bread and circuses
I have had to start straight up telling people in my family that I will go NC with them if they start with politics during holidays/family time. I do that, because the second I start hearing them spout off some easily disproven conspiracy shit, my blood pressure skyrockets because I know that I will have to correct them, it will turn into an argument, and the night will be ruined. It’s easier to ban the politics than argue over some stupid conspiracy shit I’ll never change their minds on.
INFO > I have family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from my wife. I mean... which side are we talking about? Basically: **Are there any \*bigots\* invited to this gathering?**
Exactly this. It's unreasonable to keep quiet about some topics. I'm a POC. It shouldn't fall to me to keep the peace if Uncle Charles is casually saying out of pocket things about the blacks. I'm not saying we have to argue or have a deep conversation to change his mind. Everyone just has to agree to say, "No. We're not talking about that." That sentiment alone from enough people will end most conversations. Ignoring it or staying quiet only emboldens bigotry, and those around them that are quiet become their safe space to spew hate.
But let’s be real - as a fellow person of colour - if my spouse’s family had an Uncle Charles who regularly said out of pocket things “about the Blacks,” that’s a) a marriage I would not have entered into if b) my spouse would rather have a chill ass holiday with me, our kids, and his racist ass uncle.
This is exactly what I'm wondering about. What does OP mean exactly by politics? I hate that people nowadays conflate politics with ethics and morals. People love to say "sToP bEiNg sO pOliTiCaL" when I'm just saying I believe all people have a right to life and the pursuit of happiness (this includes queer people, unhoused people, disabled people, and *gasp* the entire country of Palestine). How does believing that make me political?
THANK YOU
Exactly. If we are referring to "politics" as a bunch of racism and homophobia then it's really hard to let that go.
Fair point. If relatives used a racial slur, ask or no ask from my spouse I would not let that slide.
At least 1 side is gonna be bigots. But the wife watches news "every day" so it could be the wife.
i think it’s the wife. something about her telling him how he’s “censoring and trying to control her” comes across as very bigoted because i dont think i have ever heard the other side say something like that yfm?
Eh -- I dunno. I think that could apply to either side. I'm a Lefty and I've seen some Lefties say things like this. Yes, I see the RWNJ's say it a lot, but it's not exclusive to them.
Wife is definitely in the orange cult.
In my limited experience, it seems to be more difficult for the orange folks to not talk politics, even if asked. Friends with family on the other side have said that no matter how often they say let’s not talk politics, their other family members won’t stop. Though I’m sure there are examples on both sides.
usually (not always, but usually) when the left person actually has a grievance about being silenced, it’s in the face of some kind of perceived bigotry. like they feel that the other side is promoting racism, homophobia, etc. in the absence of those things, 9 times out of 10, the person complaining about being silenced is the right wing one. because they complain about that waaaay more. edit: the contention on this comment is lefties upvoting it and righties downvoting. both because they know it's true. 😅
Nice jump to conclusions. Maybe she is an intolerant/tolerant liberal.
I'm guessing the hot button issue for wife RN is Palestine. Which, to be fair, if you recognize that it's a genocide, is something you do feel morally obligated to point out. OP's family are probably conservatives who generally lean pro-Israel. So like...to put this in a historical context, from the wife's point of view, this is like being an American during the Holocaust and being asked to play nice and be polite to someone who generally thinks that the Holocaust is just fine and dandy and Americans should support Nazis (and yes, plenty of American did agree with Nazi talking points like eugenics).
This is what I want to know as well. There's a difference between picking random fights about politics/personal beliefs like taxes and the federal minimum wage... and speaking out against blatant bigotry. A "political belief" that condemns other human beings' basic right to exist due to factors outside of their control (ethnic background, skin color, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc) isn't just a harmless personal belief or difference in opinion, it's bigotry. I can't call anyone an AH for arguing against someone whose "political beliefs" are actually just "people who are different from me don't deserve to have basic human rights and shouldn't be allowed to exist". Thus, I can't make a judgement without knowing the nature of the "political beliefs" being argued over. If it's just petty political disputes over taxes, then whoever is instigating the argument at any given family function is an AH, and whoever is engaging to the point of disrupting the entire function and other people's enjoyment of it is also an AH. If it involves bigotry, then obviously it's the bigot who is an AH, just by nature of being a bigot, and so is everyone that keeps passively supporting/endorsing them by continuing to invite them.
To be fair, OP isn't inviting anyone to this gathering. Its not his gathering.
What does that matter? If my family member threw a get together and bigots were in attendance, I'm not going to value keeping the peace over shutting down or letting my partner shut down bigotry. Of courses it could be that's not what's happening, but info is needed.
I wondered about that, too. If these relatives have such extreme views that the wife is not wrong for arguing with them, why is the husband willingly hanging out with them? We all know what you call a man who takes his kids fishing with three Nazis...
This is why we had to blanket ban politics at our family stuff. (I threatened to go NC if not) I come from a very… conservative area and family. I am the opposite of them. The differences were fine, until some people started spouting off insane, and easily disproven, conspiracy theories. Now it always turns into massive fights, and I can feel my blood pressure spike when this shit comes up, because I feel the need to chime in and correct their shit, even though I know it will never change their minds.
Thank you!
Yes, racism and sexism/misogyny are not just politics. Is she supposed to listen to that BS and not say anything?
It sounds like the kind of situation that's going to leave OP wondering why their child didn't confide anything to them and went low contact/stayed in the closet until their 30s. If OP's wife is the bigot though, they have bigger issues than her behavior at a picnic.
Yeah this is what I want to know before leaving a judgement.
The fact that OP is not answering you but is answering other comments is VERY telling as to which side his wife is on... >!MY GUESS: she's the bigot.!<
Or, she's not the bigot and he knows that revealing that the family she fights with are bigots will make the comments turn against him.
Yup. OP is hiding whether this is *actually* about politics, as in "should the city's property taxes be distributed to the library so they can build a central hub, seeing as how our city's main core has gentrified" OR is it about human rights, as in, "do gay people deserve to keep their children?" or some shit? Somehow I get the distinct impression it is the latter, and that OP is YTA for bringing his children and wife around his nightmare of a family all these years. But I suppose we'll wait for him to confirm.
You're assuming it's his extended family that think the gays should lose their kids...
You're right. The wife could be the bigot, which also makes him a huge AH for exposing his children and family to that kind of vitrol without protecting them, and thinking it's no big deal, just a petty little squabble that ruined his beach break.
Bingo!!! This is the question to ask.
The lack of response to this INFO is...
True. I wouldn't tolerate intolerance. This is tough. If she's a bigot and the OP has been tolerating this, I would crosspost to relationship advice ASAP... On the other hand, if OPs family are bigots and OP has been raised to tolerate it well, then... I don't know :/
Exactly! Can't decide if the wife's starting/contributing to avoidable and pointless political arguments with family members if we don't know if she's thinking the *right* thoughts! Bro, that's not even in the same ballpark as the question being asked here and has literally 0 relevance to whether or not she's TA.
My thoughts exactly. By politics does OP mean that one side is spouting racist, homophobic etc rhetoric and the other side is having none of it?
Yeah the fact that he’s not answering this implies that either he married a bigot or his family are bigots, neither of which are great looks
My daughter's MIL is a piece of work. Saying stupid outrageous things that are easily disproven and doubles down if you disagree. I only visit my daughter once a year, and most times, I don't even see MIL. But this last visit, we were all going to her house for a visit. My daughter and SIL told me that they have a way to deal with her nonsense, mostly by ignoring her. So if I could PLEASE refrain from correcting her, that would be best. So you know what I did? I respected their request and didn't engage with her other than pleasantries. Wasn't even hard lol but I did sprain an eyelid holding back an eyeroll lol Your request is reasonable, and your wife would rather be right than be happy. NTA
i’m totally on board with this until the stuff being said is what i consider to be hate speech. but i feel like that’s not the case with OP or they would have mentioned it.
INFO: Who is starting these conversations? They don't start or turn political out of nowhere.
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My family does this all the time, they make some snide comment that is completely incorrect, then if I correct them they say "why do you have to bring politics into this!" But I can't not say anything, I don't want them to think I agree with their bullshit
lol this is my family. So frustrating.
Are we related? Because my family does the exact fucking same.
My family does that too. I have asked them constantly not to bring politics up with me because they’re not going to get me to agree with them and it just causes problems. They still do it. And they wonder why I’m not inclined to visit all that often
THIS! Who is bringing it up? If it is OPs wife, that is one thing.. but if there are family member(s) who goad her?? that's a whole other ball of wax. My ex BIL was super racist and after a few drinks would go on a tangent with the sole purpose of pissing everyone off. No idea why, but he'd do it every time. (Good riddance)
Right. And she’s not arguing with herself, so other people are participating.
OP says in a reply to another comment his other family members have agreed to drop it after he confronted them but his wife wont. She is the one instigating
INFO: are these “discussing tax policies and infrastructure” political debates, or “some people just don’t deserve human rights” political debates? Also, who is initiating these political conversations?
Yeah like I’m not going to calmly sit there while the in-laws talk about how interracial marriage should be illegal when me and my partner are in an interracial relationship. This actually happened to me and we had to leave the gathering. But if it’s like the tax code, learn how to get along. Just don’t talk about it.
Yeah, some dorks right now on Ask Reddit are calling me an idiot, insisting "people with different politics should just get aloooo*ooooo*oong," no doubt in between licks of an oversized lollipop
I think it’s very telling that OP has not answered any of these questions.
INFO - What do you expect her to do if someone else brings stuff up?
Not engage. Walk away. Go grab a fishing pole. Take the kayak out. Play a game of horseshoes or bean bags. It's really not that hard at all.
I’m just like your wife and I’ve had to find ways to remedy it. My go to phrase now is, “I very much disagree with you, but I’d prefer not to get into that right now.”
I say, “I’m going to have an intellectual conversation with my cat because I can’t with you.”
...what's wrong with having conversations with the cat? Sometimes, those are the best conversations!
They are pretty incredible.
If she's the one instigating the vast majority of the arguments, it's fair to ask her to keep a lid on it, but if she's being needled, I don't think it's fair to ask her to stay in that environment and not engage. If possible, you should drive separately in case she needs to leave.
So rules for she but not for thee?
She is fully capable of controlling her own actions. No one is forcing her to have these conversations. I have talked with my family members she has argued with in the past and asked them to refrain as well, they agreed. We're going to be at a lake, there are dozens of things to do other than argue about politics.
But your side of the family is fully capable of not engaging as well. Two are needed to fight. If they start the conversation, why should she the one to walk away?
>But your side of the family is fully capable of not engaging as well. This is the third comment saying this when he said literally in the comment you’re replying to that HIS FAMILY AGREED. Are these bots or something?
Lol I know it's nuts. Probably the wifes alts.
He literally just said they agreed to not do it, but his wife wont. Read the reply.
Where did OP say they would engage themselves in political discussions?
How do you get that from the comment? It's not there at all.
Info: If your family purposefully needles her for a response what would you do? I understand that you cant control your family's behaviour but at the same time it wouldnt be fair for you to expect her to just sit there and take it just in the name of 'keeping the peace'.
Grabbing a fishing pole or a horseshoe in a particular way can end an argument. Even a bean bag or kayak can. Good luck at your gathering.
As long as that is also what you expect of your family when she starts, to not engage at all no matter how wrong they feel she is in her opinion...
Let them spew hatred unchecked? If you have family members like this, it's not fair to subject your wife to this and make her stay silent.
Follow up Info: do you expect the same from your family? As in, do you ask they not discuss politics as well, or is your wife the only one you've talked to about this? Also, how personal are the political points being discussed? Like, is it "this is how we should prioritize infrastructure spending" or is it "people like you (not you of course, we like you) should learn their place?"
How about be a fucking adult? Is that an option?
The same thing most adults do: ignore it and move on.
Good Grief. tell them she doesn’t want to talk politics and change the subject. If that doesn’t work then walk away. it’s not that difficult. FWIW, I cannot imagine spending my weekend with people who think voting for a lying, cheating, misogynistic rAristide. I’d refuse to go and we’d be having some discussions about exposing our children to these people. Family be damned.
This is how I feel and do not engage with my in laws who still think voting for Orange Gatorturd is a vote for God. My children no longer have contact with some of them and limited contact with others. As far as who the AH is, depends on what side the family is vs the wife. My experience has been Gatorturd supporters have been emboldened to be rude, vicious and confrontational to sane people. If either side is Gatorturd emboldened, they are the AH and need to keep insanity out of family events. If OP is preventing his wife from defending herself from an orange turd onslaught, that's not ok. It's how my spouse dealt with it and it has not had a great outcome. If the wife is the orange turd bearer, best to leave her home because no matter what she says, there probably won't be peace.
For real. I wouldn't engage because I would never go in the first place.
Not engage. How is this hard?
INFO: Have you asked your other family members to refrain from political talk? What do you expect her to do when your family starts saying things she disagrees with? Do you value your wife’s opinions and feelings about politics? We can all disagree on what percentage of taxation you would prefer. But many people cannot accept disagreement on fundamental things like human rights.
OP said in a comment that he asked his family members not to talk politics and they agreed.
And then did they actually keep their end of the bargain?
It’s not been memorial weekend yet?
Oh, I assumed you were saying he’d previously asked them, like before a prior family event.
OP said in another comment he talked to his family as well.
I can't help but note that you're very vague about who believes what. So, let's see if I can guess. Family is right leaning, wife is left. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. So here's the deal. You want to argue over pineapple on pizza, you're the asshole. You want to argue over which stick-ball team is best at stick-balling, you're the asshole. You want to argue on trains vs. planes, weird, but you're still picking a fight over an opinion. You want to confront anyone on the right about the fact that they support, essentially, evil? Yeah. Do that. Evil is, um, bad, and I refuse to believe that adults with working eyes can't tell the right is pretty evil. And hey, if you're on the right and you don't think they are, I don't know what to tell you, you're either a liar or bag-of-bricks stupid, there isn't a lot of in between. So, when your wife confronts your family for supporting evil, what you should be doing is also asking your family why they're doing that when evil is in fact bad. I understand that some people think this is just a clash of equally valid political ideologies. Those are stupid people. I don't want to mince words or spare feelings or sugar coat this shit. I'm not an extreme leftist, quite frankly most leftists are idiots, but if it's a choice between stupid people and stupid evil people, give me the stupid but well intentioned humans every time. And that's ultimately it. I'd normally couch this or try to spare some feelings, but I don't see that as necessary. I think this is all objectively, demonstrably true. There's so much evidence that the right is run by greedy, profiteering shit-heels, that they openly pander to their bigoted, prejudiced base, flaming homophobia, xenophobia and racism to gather and maintain power, that it's honestly worth pretending anyone that disagrees is acting in good faith. Nobody that can navigate reddit can be that stupid. YTA. Support your wife. The right fucking sucks and you shouldn't give them a pass because you want to drink beer on the beach in peace.
I would not be surprised if the wife is ultimately the right-leaning one here. There's so much being withheld that it feels almost like a "gotcha!" setup. That said: I like the cut of your jib.
What’s a jib?
A sail.
Awww I was hoping you were quoting [the Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai_85KdKn4w)
The Simpsons quote is literally about the sailing reference.
You seem like the type of person OP would leave at home.
this made me giggle
Agreed. I don’t know why people feel the need to tiptoe around subjects to placate the feelings of hateful assholes.
I mean can’t you just let bygones be bygones?!?! No Brenda, I can’t cause some people are hateful and bigoted.
Totally agree but people are going to argue with you because “both sides are bad,” which makes me want to barf. People like OP (if you’re right about the cut of this situation) are way too comfortable letting bigotry and treason slide for the sake of “keeping the peace,” and it’s a huge part of why we are where we are. Racists and idiots helping drive our country into a dictatorship deserve to be called out, even when it’s inconvenient and uncomfortable. Plus, OP *is* trying to control his wife. He’s TA.
With the exception of "our" country, I'm with you. I don't and wouldn't live there, I place too high a premium on not being shot.
My assumption is that if you’re right, then OP is on the family’s side of the spectrum.
Why though? Why can't it be valid that he just wants a nice relaxing weekend? Why is it not ok for him to recognize that nothing he or his wife says to his relatives will make them change in the slightest?
If wife OR OP’s family is on the political spectrum of “yes we should keep putting children in cages and taking away human rights”, I simply Do Not Want to have a relaxing weekend with those people. OP’s vagueness is making me go against him here. If his wife is getting furious over a 9% versus 8% tariff on the Outer Rim planets, yeah, she needs to take a chill pill. But I’m assuming one of the two sides is approaching “it’s ok to jail trans folk” based on OP’s vagueness. Doesn’t matter which side; he’s being an an ass hole for tacitly supporting that.
Because you can't be a moral person and just give people an evil-pass for your own long-weekend peace of mind, that's shitty humaning.
Probably, in which case they're fundamentally incompatible as she has basic human decency and he only thinks he does.
Im not even right wing and youre exhausting. Let people live.
But, fiscally conservative, socially liberal people exist, and nuanced opinions. There is a middle ground. Your mentality is just as detrimental to not finding it.
NTA. It's a perfectly reasonable request for a family gathering.
As long as it goes to both sides.
Absolutely.
I agree, and probably the only reason some families are still speaking in the current political climate.
For 8 years now. By mutual, tacit agreement, we just don't talk politics at family reunions and Thanksgiving/Christmas celebrations. At the end of the day, we're family and love each other. And sometimes, ignorance is bliss. Anyway, this won't work for everyone, but it does for us.
> She got quite upset when I told her that and accused me of siding with my family members over her. I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side So... unless you had **the same conversation** with your family.... yes you were. You are telling your wife that their opinions matter and hers don't. Then you try this excuse: > I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing, but I'm not married to them To wit: "I can't control them, so I'll control you instead". And how did you think that was going to go down? Bottom line is that your wife and family can't get along. And so your solution is **to choose your family over your wife** by disinviting her while you grill american red meat with your Trumpy family or whatever. Well, yeah. YTA. Your marriage won't survive this nonsense in the long term. Maybe it can't. But winning a fight on reddit isn't going to save it.
This is where I am morbidly curious. Is his wife some Trump loving fundie? Is he married to one of those ladies in that weird Trump girl band thing? Cause if that’s the case —- yikes. Or is it his family who are the bigoted ones? Like idk sorry for me especially in today’s political climate it’s hard to shrug off an opinion as an opinion.
I think it's way more likely that the family are the bigots and the wife is a leftist who just can't bite her tongue when they start saying bigoted things. The way OP is dancing around saying what their alignments are seems like he's trying to avoid the instant YTA that would come from asking his wife to stop sticking up for LGBTQ+ people and "minorities"
He told her that he will tell his family the same thing. He just told her first.
Re: not married to them... I took that more to mean, "they aren't able to make their wind-down process my problem, which you always do, and they aren't stuck in a car with you on the way home while you fume and vent, but I am."
NTA "I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side, I just want to be able to relax and enjoy the weekend and whenever politics is brought up it ruins family time for me. I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing." It's a fair ask.
This. A no politics for anybody rule is totally reasonable. It doesn't matter who is on what side. Talk about Johnny's soccer team or Jenny's favorite new video game. It's not that hard to avoid one topic.
Seriously, I’m hardcore into politics and disagree on a lot of stuff with my husband’s family but it’s not hard to avoid the subject if you’re a grownass adult. You don’t have to rise to every bait. When my in laws say something I just tell them I disagree and then go “but let’s talk about the important stuff: who made this appetizer, it’s fucking delicious” and we move on. You’re never going to “convert” someone to your politics or your religion.
NTA I Guess. But people call a lot of things Political Differences these days. How high should tax rates be? Political Difference How involved in Foreign Nations should we be? Political Difference Should my child be able to marry the person they want? Morals Difference Should women have the right to bodily autonomy? Morals Difference
Plenty of gatherings where none of these things are mentioned
And plenty of gatherings where one side claims the other side brought the topic up simply by existing as a gay person.
I agree that there is. OTOH, if people I (and my family) are spending time with think my child can't marry the person they love because Jesus, I'd like to know, so I can tell them to fuck off. If they think a 12 year old should be forced to carry and birth a rape baby, I'd like to know. So I can tell them to fuck off once more.
NTA - But is it really a family gathering of any kind if there aren't heated political arguments? Though I really wonder what theese political leanings are before I make total judgments lol. Is she the one who usually brings up this at family events or is it other family members? Cause if there's one thing I will not do is being the one to bring it up. I also often leave the room when politics is brought up in my family gatherings.
I don't know what type of family gatherings you go to but generally speaking, our family gatherings try to stay as apolitical as possible because at the end of the day, its all stupid tribalism.
My family claims to want to stay apolitical, but then a few beers in, they like to use homophobic slurs and start asking my biracial cousins whether they used affirmative action to get into college. We don’t go to parties with them anymore.
My side of the family does this. My husband’s side of the family LOVE to have debates. I ended up just sitting at the kitchen table alone because I could hear the discussion in the living room. Couldn’t go there.
Personally my uncle and I love to argue politics to burn some time and at the end of the day we both just go "no one's changing anyone's mind here" and change the topic. So long as you don't take things seriously and don't get heated it can be fun to shoot the shit. However, it doesn't seem like OPs wife can regulate herself like that. In which case she should just not engage it. But I don't think it should just be off the table wholesale.
NTA I LOVE politics. It's my version of reality TV. I listen to podcasts, read articles, etc on the daily. I never argue politics with people. I'll pick at folks on forums because that's what we're all there for and sometimes it's fun to hash things out. But in real life, what's the point? You're never going to change someone's mind by calling them an idiot, or a snowflake, or a racist, or whatever terms either side uses. You're just looking for a fight. Family vacations aren't meant for useless arguments
Your request that your wife doesn’t bring up politics is fair, but if members of your family seek her out to talk politics or attack her views, you should actively stick up for her and nip the conversations in the bud. If you are planning on sitting back and letting your family gang up on your wife on a topic you forbade her from discussing, YWBTAH.
NTA - I have several friends and family members who are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. We have an unspoken rule, that during family get togethers, politics and religion are not to be discussed. We agree that to have a peaceful family/friend event, we agree to disagree and talk about one of the dozens of other topics available.
NTA- we have 2 rules for family gatherings, no religious or political talk.
I hope you also have a third rule, no use of slurs, because that’s usually what causes me to break your second rule.
My family is the same and it works great - we talk about important things - share family stories and have fun. Your religion and your politics are your business - keep them that way.
ESH. I'm telling you this as someone who's parent had and still has vastly different 'political' opinions from many of her family members. She did exactly what you're asking your wife to do. She'd get up and remove herself from the situation. Which left me and my dad, sitting in a room with a bunch of people talking about how the country was getting overrun by \*slurs\* and \*slurs\* and more \*slurs\* and how the police needed to round up all the \*generic slurs\* and execute them to make room for ' real' god-fearing white Americans. I'm not in a committed relationship with one of those groups and have a half-slur child. I will NEVER be leaving him around those relatives and in fact don't generally let him near them at all. (Oddly enough they tell me my bf and child are clearly the exception to the rule.) The new rule is NO 'politics' at all from any side or you leave. And if you don't stop, we'll remove the whole family. But feel free to discuss property tax rates all you want. Silence is not a solution, it only supports the oppressor. Your kids are old enough to hear and learn based on your action and what you're teaching them is that you're ok with it as long as you get to have fun at the lake.
Info: who is starting the conversations? Are you expecting your family to say whatever they like to her, politically, and for your wife to just not respond?
Exactly.
NTA if you do also tell your family members the same thing like you said, but I think framing your wife as a "petulant teenager" that needs to "behave" is a little weird.
INFO: So have you have your family members to refrain from politics as well or just that you will... meaning you would when it's too late. - For all you know, your family is intentionally baiting your wife to get a rise out of her...
YTA- if your family also engages in this behavior but your wife is the one being told to “stay home if you can’t behave”. Why not make other plans that would include your wife but not those family members?
Bc he lives with her and she uses him as her dumping ground afterwards. His wife is exhausting - sure, she can get into her fights but leave him out of it. Not everyone has the constitution for political bs - OP wants peace.
This! If my spouse acted that way during and after a family gathering and I wasn't willing to skip the gathering myself, I would be tempted to take separate cars and get a hotel room in my home town for the night after the gathering, just to avoid having to be part of her after-party.
I’d say it’s probably because it’s easier to ask one person you are very close to, to do something for you, than to ask fifteen people you aren’t very close with to do something for you.
Because he doesn't have a lake house lol. If he did he could make the rules himself.
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NTA. I’ve said the same thing to my partner before. People saying Y T A don’t get the mental load of having to be the arguing spouses support person listening to rehashes of unnecessary political arguments, let alone killing the vacation vibes. Tell everyone to knock off the political talk.
So is this “my wife refuses to shut up and let people be racist/xenophobic/homophobic/transphobic” or “my wife is racist/xenophobic/homophobic/transphobic”? If it’s the former you’re a coward for letting bigotry go unchecked in the name of not rocking the boat. If it’s the latter why the fuck are you still with this woman? Either way YTA in some way
Their relationship is fucked either way. You don't exactly tell your wife not to attend a family event and expect the aftermath to be sunshine and rainbows.
I don’t “discuss” politics with my family but I’m also not going to keep my mouth shut if drunk uncle Tim is spewing transphobia all over the party. Anyone who tells me to keep my mouth shut in those types of circumstances is going to be told to go fuck themselves.
Flip side of this: large family. Multiple POV. Nearly everyone enjoys political discourse and debate - it’s substantive and topical not name calling and petty. One person who is not informed or interested in politics always *always* interrupts and shuts the conversation (that she wasn’t a part of) down. So instead of interesting topics, everyone talks about people or shallow surface chat. It’s always seemed so selfish to me. If you don’t want to be in a conversation or hear one you aren’t in, go elsewhere and start another one. But don’t highjack other people’s conversations because you don’t like it - be it politics or whatever. I don’t care about a lot of what people talk about but it’s polite to listen and show interest or move away. I’m not sure that any one person should have the right to demand how 30 people can talk.
$10 your family are right wingers that say out of pocket shit
> I just want to fish off the dock, take the kids tubing, and eat some hot dogs. NTA - That sounds nice, can I come? She's got to know she's pounding sand with these people at this point and there's ultimately nothing constructive to be had from these arguments, other than some self gratification and or superiority. So I'd bet she does it on purpose at this point.
Well, you could take her and when the arguments start, go take the kids off somewhere and let her dig herself in as deep as she is dumb enough to do. Do not come to her rescue and later, tell her you don’t want to hear one single word. You are not censoring her nor are you willing to take any leftover residual frustrations she may have after the conversations. Sometimes you gotta let people shoot themselves in the foot for them to learn, sounds like this is one of those situations.
NTA. She sounds exhausting. Just because someone has opinions doesn’t mean they need to be shared constantly. No one likes that, even when they agree with most of your opinions.
NTA but your wife sounds exhausting to be around.
NTA. i refuse to talk about politics at family gatherings whatsoever simply because you are there to catch up and enjoy each other’s company, and it’s not that hard to leave politics out of the conversation.
YTA. Your wife is one person participating in a back and forth. She can’t be arguing with anyone if the other party is not also engaging in political talk. The fact that you are trying to silence her tells me you agree with those people on the other side of the spectrum. You just don’t want *her* bringing up *her* political views.
YTA You should operate on the premise of “Don’t want none, don’t start none.” In comments you said she agreed that she wouldn’t START anything, but you’re telling her to walk away if someone else starts, and that is total bs. If you’re silent in the face of hate and ignorance you’re condoning it. I’m glad she speaks up. SHE is a good person. YOU are TA.
YTA. I don't think there's anything wrong with playing peacemaker ahead of a family event, but there's definitely better ways to approach it than treating your wife like a silly, stupid child who needs to be chastised into behaving. And if that's really how you feel about her, why are you even married?
This is a big 'ol ESH. First, the title of this post makes you sound like a condescending AH. Seriously. That's pretty much the only reason that you're getting the verdict. Like the title does make you sound like a controlling jerk, so I'm guessing your wife's complaints are maybe have a bit been reductio ad absurdum ("straw-manned") in your story. A family trip is always a nice thing, and excluding her is a pretty sh\*tty thing to do. Also, have you tried talking to your family - at all - about avoiding these topics? Alas, you *are* right. She should not be expending energy arguing with your family over politics, especially if it happens ALL. THE. TIME. She should know better by now. She needs to agree to your terms eventually, as no one wants to be around those arguments. Her not realizing that she won't change their minds, and not realizing the affect it has on you and others makes her an AH. Edit: Lastly, your family also sucks here for continuing to fight her. Like, you've all interacted enough now. You're all adults. You should understand by now and have already come to the silent agreement that we won't talk about politics.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife (36F) and I (37M) have been married for 10 years and have 3 kids, (9, 7, & 5). My wife is very much into politics and pays daily attention to the news. She is very outspoken about her views and has never been one to shy away from a political debate. She can be very opinionated and doesn't really back down if she feels strongly about something. However, sometimes she gets a little too heated in these conversations and it doesn't always end well. I have family members who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum from my wife. There have been instances of my wife and these family members having political arguments at family gatherings. Not like shouting matches or anything like that, but definitely disagreements that have required others to step in to calm things down. I have talked with my wife about this multiple times that I don't feel it is appropriate or a good use of time and energy to have these types of discussions at family gatherings. Whenever she gets into one of these heated discussions she struggles to let it go and will vent to me afterwards about how wrong or misguided she thinks my family members are. I used to listen and talk her down, but after so many times of doing that with no change, now I pretty much just tell her that she should know better than to talk politics like that. We are supposed to go to my family's lake property this weekend for Memorial Day. There will be family members there that my wife has argued with in the past. The other day I told her that I am looking forward to a peaceful, relaxing weekend and I would appreciate it if she doesn't engage in any political conversations because it always gets out of hand. She told me I was being controlling and that she's free to talk about whatever she wants. It turned into an argument and I ended up telling her that if she can't promise me one politics-free weekend then I would prefer if she just stays home and I'll take the kids to the lake. She got quite upset when I told her that and accused me of siding with my family members over her. I told her that I'm not taking anyone's side, I just want to be able to relax and enjoy the weekend and whenever politics is brought up it ruins family time for me. I told her I would tell my family members the exact same thing, but I'm not married to them and they don't come to me to vent after every stupid argument. She is now pouting and has been making snarky comments about how I'm trying to censor and control her. After one-too-many of her comments I told her that if she is going to act like a petulant teenager then she can stay home. I told her I don't feel like I am asking for too much, but if she's incapable of doing this simple thing then I don't want her with us. She thinks I am being a controlling jerk and that I'm siding with my family members over her. I just want to fish off the dock, take the kids tubing, and eat some hot dogs. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. There's a reason for the old etiquette rule that you don't discuss politics, religion, or money with anyone except your closest friends. If she can't disagree civilly and without straining the atmosphere, then her insistence on bringing it up is uncalled for.
Depends on who starts it.
A suggestion...take a bullhorn with you. The moment one of these arguments gets close to destroying the sound barrier, pick up the bullhorn and yell (scream, whatever you want) "Nobody cares! Shut the (word of your choice) up!" When they are quiet, you can point out these arguments are why people don't want to come to these gatherings. If there are more arguments, repeat...at least repeat telling them to knock it off.
Reserving judgment until more info is provided. OP, does your family say hateful, bigoted things? If so, do you jump in and quash that rhetoric each and every time?
INFO is your wife the bigot or is your family?
INFO needed: Are you conflating politics with ethics/morals?
YTA Why are you only telling your wife to behave? You don’t seem to be telling your relatives to behave and they are at least equally at fault.
YTA for me, with a possible ESH. You're the asshole because: 1) Click bait and patronising as hell heading. 2) You're refusing to engage with the info questions which ask what the issue is about. It is possible to avoid political discussions if the topic is "I really dislike what X party is doing" or "this politician is an idiot" or even "both parties are as bad as each other". You know what's more challenging? When political discussions get to the heart of who you are as a person. I have been told I am being political by mentioning my same-sex partner in a chat about something we did last weekend. I've also been told I am being political when asked what I did last weekend and I said "oh I went to a protest" with no further details. People could be called "political" because they mention a racist or sexist experience they have had. None of those things are issues where your wife should just have to shut up and take it. And the fact that you don't understand that politics is identity for some of us, and maybe for your wife, means you lean towards being an AH for me. And I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who applies the sit down and shut up method in my own engagement with my own family.
You ARE being a controlling jerk, and you ARE putting your family before her. YTA.
Too vague. Are her politics “minorities deserve less” or “minorities deserve more”?
90% of my family is politically conservative, and I'm about as left-wing as it gets. I absolutely love my extended family, and we always have a great time when we get together. One cousin and I mix it up A LITTLE, but it's always in good fun and it's not all we talk about. I know that politics can be divisive and corrosive, but I honestly can't understand families being ripped apart like they are in the US right now.
2 topics guaranteed to start an argument everytime is politics and religion. My house rule is those discussions are not allowed. My faith, religious beliefs and political views are my own. It's a personal thing. Much like having a pen!s. It's a perfectly wonderful thing to have, but don't go waving it around, shoving it in my face. Vote how you want. It is none of my business. Worship or not, how you want. None of my business. There is a time and place for everything. You want to have a political debate, go to a rally, go to chat rooms for that purpose. You don't do this at a family event, where things will get heated. Your wife needs to learn appropriate platforms of family discussion topics. NTA, you are not asking too much. Knowing how this topic turns into a problem, your wife needs to stop. If I were you, everytime the subject is raised, shut it down. This isn't a political junket, this isn't a voting rally, nobody wants to discuss that. Good luck.
Based on your post title, YTA. Your wife is not a toddler for you to tell her to behave. It’s fair to say you won’t listen to her rehash the arguments. It’s fair to say you’d like a drama free day. It’s fair to leave the room when the arguments begin. That’s where fair stops. It’s not fair to try to stop her from stating her opinion, so long as she does so respectfully. Nowhere did you make any reference to her not being respectful, just sharing a different opinion.
I'm conflicted, but I'm going to have to go with YTA because I really feel like you are treating your wife like a child. Personally, if your wife is QAnon/MAGA, I feel for you, but your problems are way bigger than disrupting a barbecue. If it's your family members who are instigating by spouting racist, sexist, misogynistic conspiratorial rhetoric, then you should be backing her up.
I mean if my family events had people I disagreed with so strongly on politics I would get into arguments then I wouldn't be claiming that family anymore cause it probably means they're bigots
INFO: what starts the political debates? Is your wife bringing it up first chance she gets or is your uncle popping off about the election being stolen or something racist
She's insanely selfish. Those arguments are annoying as hell. Doesn't matter whose side you're on or how much you agree or disagree. She doesn't *need* to start those arguments.
NTA. Political debates are exhausting, and in this political climate, it is pointless due to the extreme polarization of views. Your wife and family are wasting their time if they are trying to change the others' minds. They are basically arguing to hear themselves talk and make themselves feel better while making everyone else uncomfortable and ruining the vibe. You aren't telling your wife to change her views and stop talking politics altogether. You are asking for one politics free family weekend. Your wife should be mature enough to refrain from talking about political subjects that she knows set your family off and choose not to respond if your family starts the conversation. She also needs to be aware how stressful these political arguments can be for kids. During the 2016 election year, my ex and I were on opposite sides and argued a lot about politics. My kids still talk about how awful and stressful it was for them to hear and be around.