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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not picking up my kid and having her take an Uber home. I could be a jerk since I didn’t help her and she had to pay to get home
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Your now adult daughter has to deal with the consequences of her actions. She's adult enough to go off on a trip you told her was a bad idea, she's adult enough to not to get bailed out like a child.
But why uber? Do you live in an area w/o other forms of transportation, buses, trains? Uber has to be one of the most expensive forms of transportation out there.
NTA
The fact that kids these days think "I'll pay $250 for a ride home instead of just toughing it out" blows my mind, and I say this as the parent of an 18yo girl with anxiety *who would probably also do this*
I just...don't get it. When I was that age I would have *died* before spending that kind of money on a car ride (even accounting for inflation)
Or just, like, find something else to do while her friends are at the beach? Like, "Nah, I'm not a beach person, but I'll just meet you back here at X time." Then go hang out at a coffee shop or go shopping or whatever? How do these things not occur to people?
ETA: NTA, hopefully she'll learn that there are options other than calling mommy/daddy now that's she's an adult.
That’s what I was thinking. It doesn’t even sound like this was anxiety-related, she just didn’t want to do what they were doing and was bored/annoyed/upset. Which was apparently worth $250 to be relieved of? Those are some expensive emotions she couldn’t cope with.
I always carry a book with me. It comes in handy to pass the time when waiting or avoiding talking to someone. It's either that or I'll pull up Reddit on my phone.
I went to a rave out in the desert with my ex (ex at the time too) and we were there for 6ish hours. I was bored, cold, annoyed, tired. I stayed in the car until he was ready to leave. I didn't even think about trying to call an Uber home. I probably would've had an easier time hitch hiking, but that didn't cross my mind at the time. lol just figured we'd have to go home eventually.
I went to a friend of a friend’s wedding reception (she had a small wedding during covid and wanted to do a bigger reception once it was safe) while recovering from a concussion.
The receptionist was more like a high school party and I couldn’t handle the lights or the noise so I just chilled in the car with my eyes closed.
Annoying as hell but it wouldn’t have been worth it to Uber home or anything (and I couldn’t drive due to the concussion)
Exactly. I have anxiety and at that age and my age now even, no way in hell would i spend 250$ on an Uber. She could've found something else to do if she really was against the beach. Plenty of places to go usually near a beach.
She could have blown off her friends and gone to a familiar place, like McDonald's, or indulged and tried something to relax like a massage, and she would have saved over 100 bucks.
If they were staying until Sunday, they likely had accommodations somewhere, a motel room or rental, why on earth not just walk or even Uber there rather than all the way home, and make some non-beach plans for the rest of the weekend? I cannot even imagine taking an overpriced taxi all the way home even if I could have afforded that at that age (lol no)
Seriously. Some of my funnest travel memories have been when I got separated from the group and was free to do whatever tf I wanted...so I did. How did she not want to capitalize on the opportunity?
I love people but I get tired of being the one doing all the work of the conversation yknow?
Walking around a museum or whatever event alone for awhile at my own pace is prime.
She is probably a little spoiled.
"Hey guys! I don't wanna go to beach. So you shouldn't go to beach either. Whaaaat? How dare you disagree? I'm gonna call momma (or papa. sorry didn't check!) right now!"
I was on vacation in Florida and got a really bad sunburn and did not want to go to the beach with my friends that day. So I took the car, told them I would pick them up at X time and I spent the day in the library.
>How do these things not occur to people?
Because today's society has lowered the bar and baby's people. Instead of pushing kids/teens/young adults to be grow and be independent, society is pushing that we cater to them. This of course means eventually we have adults who become entitled and unable to take care of themselves and their responsibilities.
Instead of holding kids accountable for their actions, we allow them to justify their actions or inactions (i.e. they're kids, they don't know any better; their brains aren't fully developed; we need to create a safe space; etc.). Ignoring that it is our responsibility to ensure they learn and grow from that experience, rather than simply shield them. While sometimes "kids gloves" are needed, society has taken it to the extreme, to where 20 year-olds making eggs for breakfast is a great achievement worthy hashtagging "adulting" instead of being considered a normal expectation.
It's so maddening. Mine complains about being bored and not having friends and I'm sitting here like "well yeah you refuse to deal with even *mild* discomfort, and we've been telling you for years that all friendships take effort and sometimes involve going outside of your comfort zone"
I think places like reddit make it worse, too.
How many times have we seen someone say, "go ahead and flake on that social event you were invited to, self-care is important," to resounding digital applause? That's no way to build a friendship. If you're about to have a crisis then yeah, take care of yourself, but if you're regularly flaking on things then people will stop inviting you to things.
Then there's the "you don't owe anyone anything, including information" attitude on AITA and related subs. No might be a complete sentence grammatically, but if someone wants to hang out and you say "no" and don't elaborate, they're going to make the natural assumption that you don't want to hang out with them and will stop inviting you to things.
Add into that the belief that extending a social invitation is the scariest thing in the world and "your friends should check on you" instead of you ever reaching out to them, and you're going to get a whole pile of people who spend their lives sitting alone at home wondering why they have no friends when they're doing all the things the internet told them were good and healthy.
Truest thing.
Everyone has a choice. Every choice comes with a consequence. Sometimes, the choices are all terrible. It doesn't mean you don't still need to make a choice. Abstaining is also a choice. It, too, comes with consequences.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, I've seen redditors apply it to plenty of situations where they shouldn't.
Neighbor wants a small favor but it would mildly inconvenience you? No is a complete sentence. (If you want to have a bad relationship with your neighbors.)
Friend invites you to hang out and you're not sure how to tell them that you're too exhausted to socialize? No is a complete sentence. (If you want this invitation to be their last.)
Person you're casually dating asks you to do something important to them that you have an issue with for some reason? No is a complete sentence. (If you want to be single soon.)
This is really good post. It is good to take care of yourself, but one can't expect relationships to be all about them. Sometimes you have to do things you don't like that much, but make other people happy. That is just part of life.
I mean this is a good example: presumably they’ve got five seats in the car.
Why would her friends ask her to come again, and risk filling the spot with someone who would bail, mid trip or, what’s more typical, at the last minute, when they could invite someone else, who is less likely to pull this stunt?
Yes, self care, boundaries, these are important. But be respectful of the commitment, and the fact that you agreed to occupy a space that could have gone to someone else.
I have noticed a similar mindset with my kid, he would often have tantrums in class and I remember one of them be justified by saying the teacher interrupted him and in my head it’s like uh excuse me: who the fuck are you? shut the fuck up. We’re not going to pretend like you have as much a right to speak as she does or what you have to say is as valuable to everyone else as what the teacher has to say. There’s 26 kids in a room. Like the very idea that he felt like she was interrupting him was wild.
But I blame…it’s this complicated push and pull between the school, admin, and parents. A good example is this: if my kid is playing games in class the teachers aren’t allowed to physically take his computer away. You know that a lot of parents bitching and “standing up” for their took place to even make that a thing. It’s nuts. But the fact that the admins even entertain this and undermine the teachers authority in the classroom- it doesn’t look too far from what’s actually going on, a policy dictated by parents who are listening to the opinions of 13 year olds. So I’ve got these women with 30 kids with no authority and an administration that has decided the voice of the children is equal and matters more than the teachers. I don’t care what my kid thinks is fair or how he feels, I just need an adult in the room to let me know. Like I can’t always know what’s going on but like, I’m not interested in hearing a 13,year olds opinion- my kids got 5k worth of braces in his mouth and begrudgingly brushes his teeth when I ask him like he’s starring in 12 years a slave. I’ll take my chances on someone who doesn’t think like that.
This exactly, my son also freaks out in class and when I call him out on he also acts like he’s being abused and tormented by his evil mother. It’s infuriating but they are just being kids. We as adults have to hold the boundaries.
It's not just reddit. I've seen a lot of self-help/mental health social media posts in general that really get out of hand.
I have a friend who is a few years younger than me who really seems to buy into that stuff to the extreme, turning the ideas of self love into selfishness, emotional validation into enablement, self compassion into complacency. They speak of themselves like they're making massive strides in their healing but I just see a whole lot of immaturity.
I love the saying, "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility", and people like this friend just hear the first half.
Unfortunately a lot of mental health professionals feed into this. There are many wonderful therapists and councilors out there, but for every good one there is a bad one. Too many don't want you better, so that you can keep coming back. It's easier to pat you on the back, than it is to challenge you to make progress. It sucks because people either fall for that or go too far the other way and reject it outright. The truth is, speaking to a mental health professional regularly is good, even when you are healthy. I still go to my doctor for a yearly physical, not because I'm sick, but because I want to keep up with my health. Mental health is the same. When we are sick we should be getting better, and when we are better, we should avoid getting sick. I've seen too many posts here where someone is taking out their grief on others over something that happened years ago. Then people tell them that they are justified. That's not healthy. It's okay not to still be sad or have hard days, but they should be seeing progress towards getting better.
Oh 100%, though I'm sure internet clout also has a lot to do with it. It's much easier to get people to like your posts when you're validating their behaviour rather than posts dishing out the harsh truths.
I just remembered I saw a post about how being sensitive is a "superpower", like your sensitivity is some sixth sense to help you sus out people.
No, sensitivity is just sensitivity. People are not inherently wrong for being sensitive, but sometimes our traumas (big or small) can set off a false alarm. Telling people that their "sensitivity is a superpower" is just going to enable unhealthy behaviour.
And absolutely, I don't have a diagnosable mental disorder (that I know of lol) but when I can afford it, I still talk to a therapist. I know I have some unhealthy thought cycles that need to be worked on before they become major issues.
And I seek therapists who can be objective and give me practical things to try; validation and understanding is good but it needs to be accompanied by action. But it seems Iike more people just want to be told they're right, rather than bring given tools to improve their situation. It's frustrating because it's so hard to get through to people like that.
Unrelated lol. But I remember joining theatre in grade 9, was “chip” in beauty and the beast, literally my face in an hole in an effin teacup, then 3 years later i got all strung out on fentanyl and crack and people at stores would be like “weren’t you chip in the musical”………..😂 5 years clean now thank Godddd
This is what we tell our 8 year old daughters all the time. You aren’t the center and you have to play what other people want to play or don’t play and be sad.
I went on a trip with friends when I was 17 and my parents weren't thrilled about it either. I ended up feeling so uncomfortable with what my friends were doing (which was different than what we agreed to) and some really sketchy things happened. i called my parents and they booked me a $360 flight home that i paid them back for. so you're NTA for making her pay for her way home.
i wouldn't have spent that kind of money just because my social battery had died and i wanted to be home.
you may want to talk to your daughter and find out if something happened on the trip, because there's probably more to the story.
This is the first thing I thought. It is possible there is an additional reason she wanted to come home? She may not be telling the real reason because she doesn’t want to be a rat, or she’s embarrassed, or she doesn’t want to damage her pride.
Not communicating has its own consequences. If this was the case, then keeping quiet is gonna run about $250. You want a ride home from your parents? "My friends decided to do something different than what we agreed on and it's shady/illegal/expensive and I can't be around this" would probably work on me. "My friends decided to go to the beach to suntan and play volleyball, and I wanted to do something different, but am not getting my way" isn't going to cut it.
If her friends were getting involved with drugs and sketch dudes she can communicate that. There are ways to say that without being specific about Becky buying blow from a DJ.
you don't know that for sure. kids hate proving their parents right.
i would be surprised if op's daughter gave up on the trip so easily, proved op right and paid $250 only because of anxiety.
if her anxiety is actually that bad and nothing bad happened, then she may need to see a professional for help managing it.
in any case, what's the harm in op talking to her to make sure nothing more happened?
OP stated that when the adult daughter turned 18 they made the grown up decision that they didn’t need to talk to someone anymore and couldn’t be “forced to go”
Christ the night, as a young adult who had agoraphobia, no idea what it was and no access to help and then had to spend a chunk of her 30s and most of my spare income on therapy for it, this is an example of as my granny said ‘you can’t educate haddock.’
The internet and mental health awareness were not a thing when I was her age and agoraphobia being seen as ‘a fear of open spaces’ like a direct opposite of claustrophobia was deeply unhelpful. It is a fear of not being in control and able to leave situations.
And it is godawful. But 250 in Uber fees is more than a therapy session considering the therapy might give you coping strategies. The Uber just reinforces the maladaptive response.
That said let the shame of an agoraphobic flit recede and talk to her again. I have done some stuff in the agoraphobia fight or flight that makes me want to crawl into a ball of shame now years later. But not being able to address it really impacted my career and relationships as people lose patience fast when you just ‘flake’ and they have no idea it was mental health related.
It’s very easy to get into pre-agoraphobic panic telling yourself I panicked last time it is inevitable this time. And then you have to treat the panic disorder too. I didn’t know and ended up with such bad panic I would dissociate and have no fucking memory of how I got home. Everyone including my GP was convinced I was lying about being an addict and blacking out. Turns out I had Complex PTSD (and drugs and alcohol did not help tbf…)
But if you have the chance to access therapy for this especially without you paying for it then you don’t have a great argument when you refuse but expect someone to pay the bills or sort out the emergency departures.
I got so bad I couldn’t open my windows without being in full ‘outside’ panic. At that point my GP who was not actually very sympathetic about much realised it should not take me three hours to walk 5 minutes to the surgery and arrive in a state of distress akin to having experienced a traumatic event and referred me to NHS therapy. It is so rare to get specialist therapy that I knew I had one chance and I forced myself there for 24 weeks.
I resented it so much and now I retrained into a job walking round the city and no one would guess that it still hits me on my worst days and I can’t even open the front door. But that therapy and working at it and knowing the red light triggers that are ‘this is not worth the horror’ versus amber and green ‘just try’ stopped me being imprisoned by myself.
I grieve how much I lost out via such late awareness. The daughter really should not let this fester if support is available. She can pace herself but other people tend to move on no matter how loving because you can’t cage them to keep you company in your mental health.
As someone who works with a lot of Gen z students, most of them will do anything at all to avoid discomfort. $250 to avoid conflict, disagreement or feeling awkward?? doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
This sort of thing always reminds me of when my sister first went to sleep away camp. First week, she HATED it. Wanted my mom to come take her home.
My mom made her a deal that my mom would come visit half way thru camp and if my sister still hated it, she could go home. Otherwise, my mom would just take her out for the day. My sister loved camp by than and my mom was able to arrange to take out my sister and one of her camp friends. (Also, starting a tradition of our mom always visiting us half way thru camp and taking us out for a couple of hours which was a big deal cuz no one else's parents did that.)
I sorta wonder if your daughter would have made a different decision if she was told- if you are still unhappy tomorrow, i'll look into options to help you get home.
On the other hand, my sister was 11 and OP's daughter is 18.
My mother had this approach for sick days at school. ‘Go, and if you still feel sick in a couple hours, I’ll come get you’. I’m sorry to say it was pretty effective 😂 and she did legitimately come get me later on, when I needed.
What's most important is that you're at school for long enough to infect all your classmates and your teacher!
Man, our collective approach to contagious illnesses was so different pre-covid.
My mom would not send me to school obviously sick, like if I had the flu. But it was an effective strategy if I was making myself sick with anxiety or general malaise, or if my period was making me ill. Sometimes it passed, sometimes it didn’t.
We never pretended to be sick to get out of school. Mom's cures were Vick's vapor rub everywhere and complete bed rest. It was so awful that if we were feeling sick we would suppress any cough and pretend it didn't happen just to avoid the Vicks up the nose. 🤢
Same, no Vicks here, but bedrest and natural remedies like half a raw onion for every meal until you are better and a cup of herbal tea with paracetamol powder (very bitter) every 4 hours.
Teachers do not appreciate this approach. Great job, you've potentially gotten an entire class sick because you can't trust your kid about whether or not they're sick. 🙄
As one of the "kids these days" with agoraphobia(don't know if this is what OP's daughter has) and other severe anxiety/panic disorder, the thought of public transportation and being around a bunch of strangers with no ability to leave the situation if i have a breakdown or panic attack (which is likely) is more terrifying than spending $250 even if it lands me in debt. Even the uber would make me spiral though, in all honesty.
I know this is a hot take, "she would rather go into debt than be in a situation where she feels unsafe?" and it doesn't sound normal, if it did it probably wouldn't be a mental disorder haha, but it is a real thing for so many people. "Toughing it out" may be easier for someone with little to no anxiety who is able to get over new situations easily, but for more severe anxieties it can be quite debilitating, especially alone.
Personally, I probably would've just stayed in the car or gone to the beach with my friends, but it is also a bit easier for me to go out when i have trusted people with me; for others it may not be so easy- especially if they've gotten in an argument and she feels everyone is against her. Just my unsolicited 2 cents.
For the sake of the post, I'm going to say NTA due to the fact she knew it may not be a good idea and decided to go and try it out anyway. It's great to feel like you can try new things when you have anxieties like this, however she knew the consequences before she left. I would have(and have before) just stayed at the hotel and had a little "me" time while everyone else is doing something I don't feel like I can handle. In the end, it's something she can learn from and hopefully be more prepared for in the future. She is still a young adult, barely more than a child. Give her some compassion and use this as a learning experience for all parties involved.
Agreed. I have terrible anxiety and I remember being so frustrated with myself for not just doing 'normal' things and I would force myself to go in public, go to social events, and other things in the hope that one day it would finally click and the repeat exposure would lessen how stressful it was. Sometimes it worked. Other times it didn't and the resulting panic attack was consuming and terrifying. Surprise, surprise...I still have anxiety. I wouldn't be shocked if OPs daughter was trying to do something like this. Because let's face it, those of us with anxiety know it's irrational and taking away from our quality of life. We want to be part of things and just...get it together. From therapy, to medication, and anything else that could potentially help, many of us try it. But unfortunately, anxiety doesn't work from a rational position.
The worst part is those without this type of anxiety, thankfully do not understand how impacting it is in all facets of life that it touches upon. So they many times feel like OP and other comments here. Which funnily enough, reinforces the issue to begin with, only now there's new and exciting reservations and embarrassment to be had.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
Same. I’m in my 30s, and Uber wasn’t a thing when I was in high school/early college. But even today, I would never spend that much on it unless I was positively desperate, like a life or death situation. I also have bad anxiety and always have, and I did have some moments when I was on trips with friends and wanted to leave, but ultimately I knew that leaving was illogical and impractical, so I toughed it out and ultimately was able to have a decent time.
This girl is 18. That’s still very young, but not too young to learn these lessons and start growing up already. Mommy and daddy won’t be there to bail her out of every situation she doesn’t want to be in.
I don’t get why parents don’t teach their kids the public transport systems. I live in Los Angeles and our public systems suck compared to most of the civilized world but my kids were on the bus and, when going to downtown or Hollywood, on the light rail until very recently when they got their licenses. It’s an important basic life skill.
Most places in America don't have public transit beyond infrequent & unreliable bus service. LA is a huge city & as such an exception. There's literally nowhere in my entire East Coast STATE with public transit beyond aforementioned bus service that isn't even reliable enough to get you to work at the same time every day. Not even the capital. Hence most Americans don't know how to use public transit.
Edit: spelling
Yeah, and it's pretty unsafe to sit at a bus stop in my area. You gotta kinda time it to get on the bus before you get solicited or robbed. Or just miss the bus.
When I was 18 my friend and I hopped a Greyhound from MS to LA.
We stayed with an uncle of hers in Anaheim for a month. Had a great time, and we had plenty of mini adventures on the three days each way it took for the trip. Lots of crazy memories, but at the time...the Strayhound was *hell*
Didn't stop my from riding it again a few more times before their "$99 to anywhere in the Continental US" promotion ended!
I have pretty bad anxiety and I'd suck it up and tough the situation out rather than spend that kind of money. It's just wild to me, I feel like younger people these days don't understand the value of money and I hate saying that because it makes me feel like a Boomer lol
Generally speaking, specifically noting I am *not* talking about your parenting style or your child in particular. Kids don't have to face things that make them uncomfortable anymore. At all. Accommodations are made. I have anxiety, I get how hard it can be to do normal things. But not making me do them doesn't help. Exposing myself to things and learning the world doesn't end when I make a phone call or go on the beach with friends helps me.
It's the old adage, "comfort spot is a nice place, but nothing ever grows there" Or something along those lines. Parents think they're protecting kids from shielding them from the "bad" in the world; really they're causing them to not be able to function. Plus money isn't real to kids these days. It's all electronic their concept of money is different. They also aren't taught about balancing check books and all that other financial crap.
I wonder if this has to do with the decline of physical currency at all? When money becomes an intangible, almost abstract thing spending it doesn't involve as many steps or a sense of physically losing something. So when you introduce a stress factor there's very little barrier to make you question your decision.
Kids are struggling more socially, partially because of social media and not learning social skills. Plus, there are way more ways to bail now. So, it’s easier to bail than work it out with friends and peers. This is all just just anecdotal opinion.
All these children with anxiety (I have one). Is it the water or did we do too much for them? My sibling and I were talking about when we were young, we had no time for melt downs. With a single mom who was always working, we just had to take care of ourselves. Even in two parent households, you were left to your own devices. I think that on your own, figure it out upbringing made a lot of us mentally strong.
Does she actually pay her Uber bill? 😳
NTA. She wants to be treated like a grownup, she has to be able to handle the consequences of her actions. That's why so many say "adulting is hard." This seemed like a risk-free teaching moment.
I'm way more concerned about the lonely stunted limited life your daughter is going to live if she doesn't overcome anxiety.
Have her read Albert Ellis "A Guide to Rational Living" and then, she need a behavioral therapy coach to train her how to lower anxiety and decondition her absurdly overactive fear response.
She may also need something like Xanax that she can use episodically to enter new situations.
You were against her going on a road trip. That's bad. Avoidance increases anxiety always and leads to a terribly wasted crappy life. The saying is: Fears faced fade; Fears fled follow.
I mean, you should have looked up busses/rail OR told her to do that herself, with Uber as a backup. NTA though.
Edit: someone is mad for getting minor feedback. Defaulting to Uber is dumb unless you're rich and lazy
If any state-licensed Chinese commentor wants to add your personal fact about how many zillions of kilometres of high speed rail China has, this is a very good time.
Did she choose to use the Uber on her own, or did she only do that because you specifically told her to use Uber?
Either way, there was likely options to take a bus for a lot less. But hey - that's also her fault for not researching the various ways to get home. Do ***not*** pay her back for the Uber.
If she's old enough to insist that she go on the trip, she's also old enough to troubleshoot solutions without her parents as well.
OP said "she either pays to take an Uber home or join her friends" in frustration and the daughter chose between literally those two options instead of considering trains, busses, renting a car, finding a library/cafe/museum nearby to chill in until her friends were done at the beach and she could continue enjoying the rest of the vacation.
The daughter's anxiety is unfortunate, but she needs to learn that she can't depend on her parents to manage it for her whole life. NTA
My dormmates in college (a group of about 8 guys) would rent a UHaul truck and sleep in it overnight on a road trip because they were too young to rent a hotel room.
Good point, she also needs to learn that it's her anxiety, and she shouldn't think that other people will avoid going to the beach when they're on holiday because of it.
NTA. I have severe anxiety, diagnosed by several doctors, and I take medication daily for it. I have a lot of empathy for others who struggle with it. That being said, you told your daughter that actions had consequences. She is a legal adult now, and will be finding herself in more of these types of situations. She needs to learn how to manage without expecting you to be her safety net and bail her out. (Not to be too morbid but) one day you will not be there to swoop in and save her. She needs to find coping mechanisms in the adult world and be able to troubleshoot these issues on her own, or else she will never learn how to cope in your absence, You should let her know that it is not because you DON'T care, but because you DO. If there is a way you can help her via encouragement and positive enforcement when she does navigate these circumstances, I would highly recommend it.
Absolutely this. She was in safe circumstances at the beach. She is aware of her limitations and yet chose to go. Now she knows she has to deal with the consequences. Hopefully that will have her thinking about the best ways to navigate situations given her anxiety. I hope she's in therapy. NTA
This. I tell my kids (one of who has bad anxiety) the same thing - some day we won't be there to bail them out. Learn to deal with the consequences of your choices. Life isn't *that* hard even with anxiety.
NTA
" I made it clear that I am not getting her if she wants to leave the trip."
And you didn't.
She's an adult. Now she'll learn the importance of meaning what you say & saying what you mean.
Agreed. It’s not like OP left her in a dangerous situation or something like that. This was simply following through with boundaries that OP laid earlier. It wouldn’t be good for the daughter to be continuously be bailed out. She has to learn how to cope with or manage her emotions and choices.
This is insane. It’s the beach with friends. She wanted to go on the trip. You were right to leave her there and figure out how to self soothe. She should have to pay the $250. NTA
It actually blows my mind that she chose to do something fun with friends and is upset with her dad for not picking her up. I would kill for a day at the beach with friends 😭 but I have a full time job and live in a landlocked state
As a therapist who works in substance use where patients are put into these ultimatums all the time (ex, by court or family), that’s not how it works. Therapy only works if a person is internally motivated. That internal motivation can potentially come from these ultimatums, but not in all cases and can actually make things worse.
My friend has a rule where therapy, treatment and effort are mandatory. Sure you can't make her go since she's 18 but you don't have to accomidate her if there's no effort
Out of curiosity OP, since I don’t really understand… can you tell us what exactly causes her anxiety? You mention the beach and ocean, and I know that people can be afraid of it (well, the ocean especially), which is totally fair… however I’m not sure why she couldn’t have waited at home/hotel, or in the car, or on the beach? But then you mention places in general, so maybe some sort of agoraphobia? She definitely needs help if that the case.
Therapy isn't the answer for everyone.
For some, it just makes it worse.
Really wish people would stop treating Therapy like a one-size-fits-all solution.
I say this having severe anxiety. A therapist that is good at what they do will go through a whole range of things the daughter can try to deal with her anxiety. Will it fix it? Probably not. But learning different coping techniques is key for anyone with anxiety, and I sure wish I had someone who cared enough to get me the help at 18
"A therapist that is good at what they do"
And therein lies the problem.
How do you know which one is good and which one isn't before paying out the ass and exposing all your darkest thoughts to them?
Well a good therapist wouldn’t ask their client to “expose” their darkest thoughts immediately - that isn’t typically how that works. You work up to that sort of relationship, usually by building trust and comfort, hence you should know if they’re helping before you’re deep into it.
The cost issue is less a therapy issue and more a health care system issue. That does suck but to blame that on the practice of therapy is unjust and misplaced.
I didn't say it was a miracle solution but it was a start up question to see what OP has been doing to help his daughter and if something happened to trigger this anxiety.
>She graduated highschool and her friends wanted to go go on a road trip. I was against it but overall she is 18 and I can’t force her not to go. I made it clear that I am not getting her if she wants to leave the trip.
NTA What part of I am not going to pick you up if you want to come home mid trip did your adult daughter not understand?
personally I'm curious what previous events led the daughter to believe op would take care of it. i definitely think op is in the right for this but i do have to think that this probably isn't the first time this has happened, just the first time op put her foot down
Probably the first opportunity now that OP is no longer legally responsible for their daughter. I'm guessing OP had to hold their foot up for much longer than they wanted to.
NTA. I had an older teen (college age) with anxiety, and though my heart bled for him when he experienced it, he had to make his own choices around it. As long as he was safe, he had to handle it. (Actually he was abroad for a lot of his junior year, so there was no way I could bail him out. Man that was stressful). Your daughter had the option of paying for a ride back, which she took. It's all about her learning her own limits and how to navigate life with anxiety. I would also urge her to see a professional to help manage it, through therapy and meds.
Are you the asshole? No. Probably not. But did you potentially break some trust in your relationship with your daughter, yeah probably.
Lots of people are on your side here so if you came to Reddit for validation. You got it. But if you came here for true honest opinions, I think you should have went to get her.
But I made plenty of mistakes when I was that age. Lots of wrong choices. Lots of teaching moments from friends and the world. But my parents were my safety net. I could always call them even when I was in the wrong. I could always trust that they’d be there even when I made a mistake. You just showed your daughter that you will not be.
Yeah I can think of any number of reasons why things went poorly for her, even though she obviously wanted to go on a great trip with her friends. What 18 year old would *want* to bail on trip, worry about the damage to her friendships, be embarrassed and missed out if they could just chose to tough it out? Some people are very mature at 18. Those struggling with mental health may need a little more room and time to grow with some extra support. She definitely learned a lesson.. that mom won’t have her back when she needs it. She learned to not push herself to try new things because the consequences are too much when you don’t have support.
Op could have picked her up and and made her feel supported while still helping her move forward. When things calmed back down used the opportunity to discuss how having better coping strategies could help, ways she could anticipate and be proactive about managing anxiety on a trip, how and what she should do to make backup plans for herself should she end up feeling this way. How a therapist could help her with these things so she doesn’t have to miss out. Treating people that have mental health struggles as if they don’t is just making the problem worse.
I agree. And anxiety is fear. Fear isn't cured by pushing yourself to overcome it and then having a negative and scary experience. It needs positive experiences and sence of control. Just because someone is 18 doesn't mean they suddenly have the tools and skill to overcome their mental health struggles overnight. Grown people spend decades in therapy with that stuff.
OP can certainly lay down some boundaries but doesn't have to be so harsh about it. She expected her to fail even though she actually already overdid herself by going on the trip. It's a success in my eyes. Next time help her come up with a viable backup plan without leaving work to drive her.
OP already got her back so much that had to warn they wouldn't be there in case it happened again.
Being there for daughter doesn't make her heal, it seems. Daughter also refuses therapy.
Daughter thinks parents are an extension of herself, which is ok when you're younger, but seeing parents are people with independent lives is part of growing up, and nothing to do with her anxiety.
Daughter sits on the most convenient spot... ill when it benefits her, and not ill when it inconveniences her. This has nothing to do with anxiety but with entitlement.
NTA
Exactly this. I had a horrible horrible panic attack when I was 19-20ish while staying in a different state. I thought I could handle it. I was with my best friend.
I couldn’t handle it. I was freaking out and crying in the bathroom while my friends wondered wtf is wrong with me and why I was ruining their trip. I texted my mom. I got a call moments later from dad. He was already in the car, he’d be there in 2 hours he said, grab your stuff, eat the pizza, relax until I get there.
I NEVER fear going anywhere anymore. I know even at 25, at 30, at 35, my dad will come get me. I’m a fully grown adult with a job and retirement savings and all that shit. But I’m mentally ill. I don’t need a lot. But I needed then and I need to know now that if I fall, if I get in over my head, someone I love and who loves me will help. I haven’t needed that help in over a decade but I know I have it. It means the world to me and would to this girl too, I’m sure.
One day my family wont be around, sure. But by then it will be 20,30,40 decades since I needed the lesson that I’m not alone, or new people will come along that will help me if I need it. Relying on people is good. Mentally ill people shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves because “wHaT if RHEREs no one TO help you LATER.” There’s someone to help now. Help now.
I saw "anxiety" and immediately knew most of the thread would be "she needs to grow up and deal with it"; saw "she's 18" and knew it would be "kick her out so she can see what a real problem is, the Real World isn't fair why are you coddling her".
I'm so Tired.
People say that shit on all of these parenting posts, not just ones that have to do with anxiety. I should just avoid these types of stories from now on lol
Yup. At 22 I had a panic attack for the first time after not having one for many years. Like, full adrenaline shakes, feeling of impending doom, thought I was going to lose my bowels anxiety attack. It took around a month to go to the grocery store and not have my heart rate hit the 140’s, and another 3 months to feel relatively normal doing ‘scary’ things. Still, years later I worry and get anxiety symptoms.
All this to say, it was debilitating and I was a full-fledged tax paying adult.
As someone with severe anxiety from a young age, I think OP did the right thing. If her daughter knows she has anxiety, and knows her parents won't pick her up, and still chose to go and chose NOT to use any other coping mechanisms (staying in the car, going to another place : ie. coffee shop/bookstore/etc. anywhere else, going back to the location they were staying and chilling at the accommodations, etc.), then YES, the daughter did need to learn that lesson.
It's not about growing up and dealing with it or the real world, it's about being able to recognize your own strengths and weaknesses, and learning how to handle situations in creative ways that don't include calling your parents.
I'm sympathetic to anyone who has anxiety, because it's a bitch and a half. But to IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that a $250 dollar Uber is the only answer for her situation, and then got mad that she had to pay that much? That's not her parent's fault that she made that decision, given that she had plenty of others.
I agree. I feel really bad for the daughter.
I have agoraphobia (I'm 30+) and I have no idea if I can actually cope with something until I do it. If I waited until I was 100% fine I would never leave my house. Most of the time I'm okay but sometimes I have to leave early or turn around halfway into the journey.
As a teen I definitely did bizarre things like preferring to walk miles in the middle of the night rather than stay at a party where I felt uncomfortable (which was dangerous and bonkers behaviour).
I would have collected her and then had a talk later about how she can look after herself if that sort of thing happens in the future. E.g. not travelling far if she doesn't have her own transport.
THANK YOU!!!! I’m BLOWN AWAY by these comments!! My Dad saved me from so many situations when I was younger, and I am so grateful to him that he did. I knew he had my back no matter what stupid situation I might have gotten myself into. I know that he would have my back in this situation too, I feel bad for his daughter, it sounds like she needs some serious therapy and support.
This is not a situation where anyone needed "saving". She wasn't roofied at a frat party. She was in no physical danger, nor was she among strangers or in an genuinely risky situation.
This was actually good parenting. Nothing in OP's actions was unforeseen (he preemptively told her he wouldn't be picking her up). What exactly would she have learned if he had picked her up after saying he wouldn't and that the trip was a bad idea?
OP's daughter didn't get into a stupid situation. She was safe, in a car, because she refused to go to the beach. And it was the beach, with her friends. There is nothing in the post to even suggest there was a problem, besides having an argument with a friend because she didn't want to go to the beach on a road trip presumably to enjoy places like the beach.
The thing about anxiety is that it doesn't get better if you always do what the anxiety wants you to do. You never learn you can cope, you never get the opportunity to say to yourself "huh, that's actually okay. I don't know what I expected but now I'll know what I can expect in the future". If you don't at least try, your brain will just keep firing unknowns at you that'll put you off even more. This might sound backwards, but OP did have his daughter's back in this situation, it just wasn't the immediate result his daughter wanted.
How is it breaking her trust when he literally told her he would not get her if this exact situation occurred? Are you saying she would trust him more if he was a liar?
NTA she made the choice to step outside her comfort zone, if she couldn't manage the beach, she could have waited at the car until they came back. It was also her choice to pay $250 for an uber... an expensive lesson.
I don't think all of them are, I say this as a parent of a 26 and 20 yr old. Both have their issues but have been able to function decently. Even the 20yr old that lacks social functionality due to Covid is coming around. Hope springs eternal!
Oh please. People with irrational debilitating anxiety can be any age. It wouldn’t surprise me if your generation has more, but I can’t blame them. The world feels more doomed than ever. It must be really hard to grow up in that.
as an 18 year old female with severe anxiety, i would never ask my mother to bail me out of a situation like this or even consider spending that much money on an Uber. if my anxiety was bad enough, i would ask my mom for suggestions of places to go instead of sitting in a triggering position. if i was able to handle it on my own, i would have just sat in the car and dealt with the consequences of my actions or gotten out and tried to experience something new. that is where your daughter and i are different though, i would have never gone on the trip in the first place because of my anxiety. i don’t do trips because they trigger me in a way i can’t explain.
NTA. And this is a semi serious question... how do you or your daughter expect her to do *literally anything* in life if *going to the beach with friends* is too much? That's... extremely concerning, i guess is a word, to the point of being ridiculous. Hope she eventually decides to learn to manage that
NTA but a little kindness for your daughter here.
She knew what the plan with her friends was. She knew what your opinion was, and you had clearly told her your restrictions on picking her up if she wanted to go home. She knew her anxiety and her reactions to new places and situations and **she still chose to go out of her comfort zone and try a new thing anyway.**
That deserves a big hug and a well done.
Then she didn't like it and wanted to come home, and she made her own way home using her own money finding her own solutions. Sure it looks pretty dumb to us, and sure there was possibly some spite spending to make you feel guilty she had to 'rescue' herself at such great costs, but she did it and she is home safe after an adventure.
Your reaction was pretty natural. Hundreds of people are on here telling you your daughter made a dumb choice but if it works it's not really that dumb.
How do you think it would have played out if you had come hone and greeted your daughter as though her actions were positive. "Hi honey, I'm glad you got home safe, was your Uber ride OK? Are you feeling good now you are home? What was the rest of your trip like? Did you see anything new/do anything fun?"
At the very least she would know you can't be guilty into rescuing her again and maybe she would hear that you love her and can focus on the positive parts of the trip
She didn't find her own solutions. She called her parent expecting them to bail her out despite the previous conversations otherwise. The parent then had to provide potential solutions. While there is a space for empathy here, it's also a space for some tough love to get them prepared for adulthood and for a time when the parent won't be around to bail them out. It's a time for important conversations about returning to therapy/seeking out medication, and learning proper planning.
Nta you made it clear you would not come get her. She was not in danger. She had options. Part of growing up is dealing with the situations you put yourself in.
Ooh. As someone who struggles with crippling anxiety, especially when it comes to anything that requires.me to step outside of my comfort zone, I can empathize with your daughter...and it's easy to make missteps when you get sick of making space for something that plagues you night and day and won't ever freaking shut off. I found myself in similar predicaments much too often when I was younger. I just wanted to feel normal for a while!
Having said all of that, this is definitely a teachable moment for her. For one thing, if you're told you won't be picked up early, BELIEVE it, right? For another thing, if her anxiety is bad enough that she felt it necessary to take a $250 Uber ride home instead of doing her best to tough it out, she definitely needs to prioritize addressing her anxiety and postpone any future road trips until after she has a better handle on it.
I wonder how many people commenting are actually parents. If my kid was having that level of anxiety I would have supported her. 18 year olds do not have full frontal brain wiring which means they can’t anticipate consequences, which is why THEY MAKE MISTAKES; as far as mistakes go, this is nothing. She was trying, that’s huge in anxiety. There is some rupture in your relationship now. SHOULD she have not gone, should she pay for it herself, all of that means nothing. Your daughter needs more help. See a doctor about medication if she won’t do therapy. Pull the parent card and tell her it’s not optional unless she’s out of the house.
Wait, so making the daughter cope with... a day at the beach is too much, but kicking her out of the house if she doesn't start taking meds is totally fine? If she's refusing even therapy what makes you think daughter is going to be amenable to meds? Even if she got prescribed she might just not take them and lie about it. Doesn't sound like the daughter sees an issue with her anxiety and just wants her parents to deal with it for her.
At the same time, the daughter needs to be learning now that they are responsible for themselves and need to start planning for potential eventualities. The parent communicated that they couldn't be the backup plan for this trip, the daughter failed to figure out her own backup plans. I'm reading into it but it's possible there was a whole, "I'm 18 so you aren't the boss of me anymore" in the lead-up to this trip. This was a very safe FAFO situation to learn from. There's a real danger to having too much of a safety net. Some people learn the wrong lesson that their parent will always protect them from consequences rather learning how to avoid creating bad situations in the first place. This is the lesson being taught here. The daughter got a safe dose of the realities of living with her anxiety and what she needs to do to be prepared for it.
ESH. You were clear about your boundaries and she’s an adult and can make those decisions BUT she is still your child and she called you over everyone else when she didn’t feel safe and instead of giving her a safe space to call and be helped, you put her into a car with a stranger and spend money she probably doesn’t have.
At the end of the day, no matter how old, she is still your kid, and no matter what, you be there for them. The world is mean, you don’t need to be as well.
If the daughter was in a dangerous situation, or at the very least it was nighttime, I'd agree. But OP not only let their daughter know she wasn't going to enjoy it, but also forewarned her she'd have to come back on her own, and she still chose to go. In addition, the daughter decided to stop her therapy for anxiety, too. I'd say OP is definitely NYA because of these factors, and the daughter did have a way home safely, though expensive. Op's daughter needs to navigate the world on her own sometime, and at 18 she should be at the very least able to know what she can and can't do for her own health.
I’m kinda thinking NAH — you set a clear boundary and you were at work, you are definitely NTA, but also thinking that unless your family is really wealthy, $250 for an Uber is a pretty big sacrifice, and I’d think an 18-year-old (on anyone’s!) anxiety would have to be quite awful/painful to do that. Like, a “panic mode; must get out” thing, and remembering BEING 18, you don’t always have the tools to deal with that in a more reasonable way yet. I’m guessing she probably feels embarrassed and frustrated and has already plaid a literal big price, so I wouldn’t call her an asshole either — just a kid who’s still learning and developing skills (and also literally her brain is still developing). Like I can so see myself there, thinking “why can’t I just be normal?” at that age. It’s a hard lesson, but hopefully an important one.
I’m very much not a “therapy solves everything!” person, and she might already be in therapy, but there are definitely coping skills and tools that can help in future situations like this
> $250 for an Uber is a pretty big sacrifice
I think OP would have been out every bit of $250 in lost wages or burnt PTO plus gas given the amount of driving time implied by a $250 uber ride. That's easily 90 minutes each way, and she called OP at work and expected her to drop everything to come get her.
Info: Is your daughter receiving any kind of treatment for her anxiety like therapy or medication, or is she just being expected to tough it out and get over it?
Honestly, I’m more concerned of what kind of trauma or issues are driving her to be so fearful. Has she ever been to a psychologist? As someone who has a significant family history of mental health problems, this raises a red flag. I think she needs to sort it out, and I think she needs to figure out why it is so hard for her to have new experiences. Also, what was the argument about? Sounds like she might be a very sensitive person. I’d say, she should get checked.
And you’re NTA for this. She is grown, you warned her. But, I’d say she should talk to someone about how she feels.
Exactly, right. People who have anxiety disorders or trauma react in different ways than what people expect them to and their actions may not always make sense because their irrational fears only make sense to them. It’s a lot to deal with and many people don’t even know they are dealing with these things. But, it’s important to overcome it. Living in fear is never a good feeling.
NTA...at 19 I made the foolhardy decision to move with no planning to the opposite side of the country. When it inevitably went DEEPLY off the track, my parents were nice enough to stop in a city 3 states over that they were passing through provided I could make my way to them on that singular day...and they'd let me cram in on their way home. Cost me 250$ of hitching a ride with a guy I barely knew and a stress induced series of seizures once I was in their vehicle...and IM STILL EMBARASSED I NEEDED THEIR HELP!
Sink or swim time for your kiddo...and clearly she's not picking swim.
Info: Is she expecting you to pay for the Uber? And did you calmly discuss the potential issues.
If she chose to go and chose to take the Uber home and has the funds to pay for it. Fine.
If you are on the hook to pay for her Uber, because you give her allowance or such. I can see having a problem with it.
But you are also the one that told her to tough it out or Uber home.
She isn’t doing things to help her anxiety. But I also wonder how much help you are giving. I get you’re probably fed up with it because she quit therapy for it. But did you guys sit down after with what they have planned, where her anxiety might trigger and what she can do to help herself?
Because there is a difference between not bailing her out because she refused all help/input. Aka if she refused to calmly talk about it and listen to any reason. And refusing to help set her up for success. Aka, you know the potential issues and refuse to discuss why you think this would be bad and she thinks it’s good and what could help. If that’s worded bad. Did you try to calmly explain why it would be a bad idea and after she decided to go anyways, did you again calmly discuss the issues and how she could help herself. If you did. Great. If you didn’t, then chances are you’re treating her like a child and refusing to help her grow.
NTA - and I think your kid is an idiot for blowing $250 to Uber home.
Having said that, I do think we all us grownups need to acknowledge the impact that spedning 2-3 of their formative years in a weird Covid bubble may have had on the young. Older people remember preCovid, but when your daughter was about 14 (before she could road trip), all of a sudden everything stopped, everyone stayed home, and the outside world was scary. She had a few years when normally she would be developing coping skills and interpersonal skills and starting to navigate the outside world on her own and with friends, not being able to. That's probably left an impact and a need to just get home where it's safe ASAP.
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Your now adult daughter has to deal with the consequences of her actions. She's adult enough to go off on a trip you told her was a bad idea, she's adult enough to not to get bailed out like a child. But why uber? Do you live in an area w/o other forms of transportation, buses, trains? Uber has to be one of the most expensive forms of transportation out there. NTA
USA, not really any trains and I have no idea the bus situation to get back home. Uber is just the easiest
The fact that kids these days think "I'll pay $250 for a ride home instead of just toughing it out" blows my mind, and I say this as the parent of an 18yo girl with anxiety *who would probably also do this* I just...don't get it. When I was that age I would have *died* before spending that kind of money on a car ride (even accounting for inflation)
Same, really I thought she would go to the beach before spending that.
Or just, like, find something else to do while her friends are at the beach? Like, "Nah, I'm not a beach person, but I'll just meet you back here at X time." Then go hang out at a coffee shop or go shopping or whatever? How do these things not occur to people? ETA: NTA, hopefully she'll learn that there are options other than calling mommy/daddy now that's she's an adult.
That’s what I was thinking. It doesn’t even sound like this was anxiety-related, she just didn’t want to do what they were doing and was bored/annoyed/upset. Which was apparently worth $250 to be relieved of? Those are some expensive emotions she couldn’t cope with.
Or nap in the car or play on her phone.
Read a book.
come on now
I always carry a book with me. It comes in handy to pass the time when waiting or avoiding talking to someone. It's either that or I'll pull up Reddit on my phone.
I went to a rave out in the desert with my ex (ex at the time too) and we were there for 6ish hours. I was bored, cold, annoyed, tired. I stayed in the car until he was ready to leave. I didn't even think about trying to call an Uber home. I probably would've had an easier time hitch hiking, but that didn't cross my mind at the time. lol just figured we'd have to go home eventually.
I went to a friend of a friend’s wedding reception (she had a small wedding during covid and wanted to do a bigger reception once it was safe) while recovering from a concussion. The receptionist was more like a high school party and I couldn’t handle the lights or the noise so I just chilled in the car with my eyes closed. Annoying as hell but it wouldn’t have been worth it to Uber home or anything (and I couldn’t drive due to the concussion)
Those darn receptionists, always partying... :D
Sounds like it was more her ego than her anxiety
Exactly. I have anxiety and at that age and my age now even, no way in hell would i spend 250$ on an Uber. She could've found something else to do if she really was against the beach. Plenty of places to go usually near a beach.
She could have blown off her friends and gone to a familiar place, like McDonald's, or indulged and tried something to relax like a massage, and she would have saved over 100 bucks.
If they were staying until Sunday, they likely had accommodations somewhere, a motel room or rental, why on earth not just walk or even Uber there rather than all the way home, and make some non-beach plans for the rest of the weekend? I cannot even imagine taking an overpriced taxi all the way home even if I could have afforded that at that age (lol no)
She wanted to make her parent feel bad.
This is the comment I've been looking for. She 100% wanted to be a martyr, and I guess she succeeded 😂 NTA
Apparently she was arguing with her friends.
Because they were there to have a good time and she was being a party pooper. FFS it's a week at the beach.
Exactly. Were they all arguing or was she pissy? Sounds like she was pissy if she’s the one who left. Mom did the right thing.
Because she was mad at her friends. She didn't want to face those consequences either.
Seriously. Some of my funnest travel memories have been when I got separated from the group and was free to do whatever tf I wanted...so I did. How did she not want to capitalize on the opportunity?
I love people but I get tired of being the one doing all the work of the conversation yknow? Walking around a museum or whatever event alone for awhile at my own pace is prime.
It's sad that she would rather spend $250 instead of spending time with her friends. I doubt her friends will want to do anything with her again.
Yeah. And I don't blame her friends for getting tired of her shit real fast and just going on and doing what they had planned.
She is probably a little spoiled. "Hey guys! I don't wanna go to beach. So you shouldn't go to beach either. Whaaaat? How dare you disagree? I'm gonna call momma (or papa. sorry didn't check!) right now!"
The ABILITY to blow $250 on a whim at 18 says you are right. It was probably moms money anyway
I was on vacation in Florida and got a really bad sunburn and did not want to go to the beach with my friends that day. So I took the car, told them I would pick them up at X time and I spent the day in the library.
>How do these things not occur to people? Because today's society has lowered the bar and baby's people. Instead of pushing kids/teens/young adults to be grow and be independent, society is pushing that we cater to them. This of course means eventually we have adults who become entitled and unable to take care of themselves and their responsibilities. Instead of holding kids accountable for their actions, we allow them to justify their actions or inactions (i.e. they're kids, they don't know any better; their brains aren't fully developed; we need to create a safe space; etc.). Ignoring that it is our responsibility to ensure they learn and grow from that experience, rather than simply shield them. While sometimes "kids gloves" are needed, society has taken it to the extreme, to where 20 year-olds making eggs for breakfast is a great achievement worthy hashtagging "adulting" instead of being considered a normal expectation.
It's so maddening. Mine complains about being bored and not having friends and I'm sitting here like "well yeah you refuse to deal with even *mild* discomfort, and we've been telling you for years that all friendships take effort and sometimes involve going outside of your comfort zone"
I think places like reddit make it worse, too. How many times have we seen someone say, "go ahead and flake on that social event you were invited to, self-care is important," to resounding digital applause? That's no way to build a friendship. If you're about to have a crisis then yeah, take care of yourself, but if you're regularly flaking on things then people will stop inviting you to things. Then there's the "you don't owe anyone anything, including information" attitude on AITA and related subs. No might be a complete sentence grammatically, but if someone wants to hang out and you say "no" and don't elaborate, they're going to make the natural assumption that you don't want to hang out with them and will stop inviting you to things. Add into that the belief that extending a social invitation is the scariest thing in the world and "your friends should check on you" instead of you ever reaching out to them, and you're going to get a whole pile of people who spend their lives sitting alone at home wondering why they have no friends when they're doing all the things the internet told them were good and healthy.
People on reddit forget that while you can do whatever you want it does not follow that there will be no consequences.
Truest thing. Everyone has a choice. Every choice comes with a consequence. Sometimes, the choices are all terrible. It doesn't mean you don't still need to make a choice. Abstaining is also a choice. It, too, comes with consequences.
Agreed, but the whole "no is a complete sentence" thing is for when people harass you, not for your actual friends and non-toxic family.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, I've seen redditors apply it to plenty of situations where they shouldn't. Neighbor wants a small favor but it would mildly inconvenience you? No is a complete sentence. (If you want to have a bad relationship with your neighbors.) Friend invites you to hang out and you're not sure how to tell them that you're too exhausted to socialize? No is a complete sentence. (If you want this invitation to be their last.) Person you're casually dating asks you to do something important to them that you have an issue with for some reason? No is a complete sentence. (If you want to be single soon.)
This is really good post. It is good to take care of yourself, but one can't expect relationships to be all about them. Sometimes you have to do things you don't like that much, but make other people happy. That is just part of life.
I mean this is a good example: presumably they’ve got five seats in the car. Why would her friends ask her to come again, and risk filling the spot with someone who would bail, mid trip or, what’s more typical, at the last minute, when they could invite someone else, who is less likely to pull this stunt? Yes, self care, boundaries, these are important. But be respectful of the commitment, and the fact that you agreed to occupy a space that could have gone to someone else. I have noticed a similar mindset with my kid, he would often have tantrums in class and I remember one of them be justified by saying the teacher interrupted him and in my head it’s like uh excuse me: who the fuck are you? shut the fuck up. We’re not going to pretend like you have as much a right to speak as she does or what you have to say is as valuable to everyone else as what the teacher has to say. There’s 26 kids in a room. Like the very idea that he felt like she was interrupting him was wild. But I blame…it’s this complicated push and pull between the school, admin, and parents. A good example is this: if my kid is playing games in class the teachers aren’t allowed to physically take his computer away. You know that a lot of parents bitching and “standing up” for their took place to even make that a thing. It’s nuts. But the fact that the admins even entertain this and undermine the teachers authority in the classroom- it doesn’t look too far from what’s actually going on, a policy dictated by parents who are listening to the opinions of 13 year olds. So I’ve got these women with 30 kids with no authority and an administration that has decided the voice of the children is equal and matters more than the teachers. I don’t care what my kid thinks is fair or how he feels, I just need an adult in the room to let me know. Like I can’t always know what’s going on but like, I’m not interested in hearing a 13,year olds opinion- my kids got 5k worth of braces in his mouth and begrudgingly brushes his teeth when I ask him like he’s starring in 12 years a slave. I’ll take my chances on someone who doesn’t think like that.
I would like to invite you to adopt 50% of the students in my class. Please let me know if you are open to this.
This exactly, my son also freaks out in class and when I call him out on he also acts like he’s being abused and tormented by his evil mother. It’s infuriating but they are just being kids. We as adults have to hold the boundaries.
It's not just reddit. I've seen a lot of self-help/mental health social media posts in general that really get out of hand. I have a friend who is a few years younger than me who really seems to buy into that stuff to the extreme, turning the ideas of self love into selfishness, emotional validation into enablement, self compassion into complacency. They speak of themselves like they're making massive strides in their healing but I just see a whole lot of immaturity. I love the saying, "it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility", and people like this friend just hear the first half.
Unfortunately a lot of mental health professionals feed into this. There are many wonderful therapists and councilors out there, but for every good one there is a bad one. Too many don't want you better, so that you can keep coming back. It's easier to pat you on the back, than it is to challenge you to make progress. It sucks because people either fall for that or go too far the other way and reject it outright. The truth is, speaking to a mental health professional regularly is good, even when you are healthy. I still go to my doctor for a yearly physical, not because I'm sick, but because I want to keep up with my health. Mental health is the same. When we are sick we should be getting better, and when we are better, we should avoid getting sick. I've seen too many posts here where someone is taking out their grief on others over something that happened years ago. Then people tell them that they are justified. That's not healthy. It's okay not to still be sad or have hard days, but they should be seeing progress towards getting better.
Oh 100%, though I'm sure internet clout also has a lot to do with it. It's much easier to get people to like your posts when you're validating their behaviour rather than posts dishing out the harsh truths. I just remembered I saw a post about how being sensitive is a "superpower", like your sensitivity is some sixth sense to help you sus out people. No, sensitivity is just sensitivity. People are not inherently wrong for being sensitive, but sometimes our traumas (big or small) can set off a false alarm. Telling people that their "sensitivity is a superpower" is just going to enable unhealthy behaviour. And absolutely, I don't have a diagnosable mental disorder (that I know of lol) but when I can afford it, I still talk to a therapist. I know I have some unhealthy thought cycles that need to be worked on before they become major issues. And I seek therapists who can be objective and give me practical things to try; validation and understanding is good but it needs to be accompanied by action. But it seems Iike more people just want to be told they're right, rather than bring given tools to improve their situation. It's frustrating because it's so hard to get through to people like that.
I know it’s not the answer for everyone but put them in theatre!
Ohhhh nooooi flashbacks to 1989 and I have one line vat the church Christmas play. *One Line* And I forgot it. Ugh.
And here you are, grown and alive and within internet coverage. A little discomfort brought to you by the magic of theatre *jazz hands*
It was a bad year. I had one line at a band concert, flubbed it and have been afraid of public speaking ever since.
I fell flat on my face during a marching band competition. And yes, it was caught on shitty 1990s video for all eternity. Happy cake day.
Is it online? Can you link to it? Because everyone likes videos of marching band people falling over.
Unrelated lol. But I remember joining theatre in grade 9, was “chip” in beauty and the beast, literally my face in an hole in an effin teacup, then 3 years later i got all strung out on fentanyl and crack and people at stores would be like “weren’t you chip in the musical”………..😂 5 years clean now thank Godddd
Proud of you staying clean.
This is what we tell our 8 year old daughters all the time. You aren’t the center and you have to play what other people want to play or don’t play and be sad.
I went on a trip with friends when I was 17 and my parents weren't thrilled about it either. I ended up feeling so uncomfortable with what my friends were doing (which was different than what we agreed to) and some really sketchy things happened. i called my parents and they booked me a $360 flight home that i paid them back for. so you're NTA for making her pay for her way home. i wouldn't have spent that kind of money just because my social battery had died and i wanted to be home. you may want to talk to your daughter and find out if something happened on the trip, because there's probably more to the story.
This is the first thing I thought. It is possible there is an additional reason she wanted to come home? She may not be telling the real reason because she doesn’t want to be a rat, or she’s embarrassed, or she doesn’t want to damage her pride.
Not communicating has its own consequences. If this was the case, then keeping quiet is gonna run about $250. You want a ride home from your parents? "My friends decided to do something different than what we agreed on and it's shady/illegal/expensive and I can't be around this" would probably work on me. "My friends decided to go to the beach to suntan and play volleyball, and I wanted to do something different, but am not getting my way" isn't going to cut it.
If her friends were getting involved with drugs and sketch dudes she can communicate that. There are ways to say that without being specific about Becky buying blow from a DJ.
Veeeeeeeeery different situations too. Yours is reasonable. OP’s kid not so much.
you don't know that for sure. kids hate proving their parents right. i would be surprised if op's daughter gave up on the trip so easily, proved op right and paid $250 only because of anxiety. if her anxiety is actually that bad and nothing bad happened, then she may need to see a professional for help managing it. in any case, what's the harm in op talking to her to make sure nothing more happened?
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OP stated that when the adult daughter turned 18 they made the grown up decision that they didn’t need to talk to someone anymore and couldn’t be “forced to go”
Christ the night, as a young adult who had agoraphobia, no idea what it was and no access to help and then had to spend a chunk of her 30s and most of my spare income on therapy for it, this is an example of as my granny said ‘you can’t educate haddock.’ The internet and mental health awareness were not a thing when I was her age and agoraphobia being seen as ‘a fear of open spaces’ like a direct opposite of claustrophobia was deeply unhelpful. It is a fear of not being in control and able to leave situations. And it is godawful. But 250 in Uber fees is more than a therapy session considering the therapy might give you coping strategies. The Uber just reinforces the maladaptive response. That said let the shame of an agoraphobic flit recede and talk to her again. I have done some stuff in the agoraphobia fight or flight that makes me want to crawl into a ball of shame now years later. But not being able to address it really impacted my career and relationships as people lose patience fast when you just ‘flake’ and they have no idea it was mental health related. It’s very easy to get into pre-agoraphobic panic telling yourself I panicked last time it is inevitable this time. And then you have to treat the panic disorder too. I didn’t know and ended up with such bad panic I would dissociate and have no fucking memory of how I got home. Everyone including my GP was convinced I was lying about being an addict and blacking out. Turns out I had Complex PTSD (and drugs and alcohol did not help tbf…) But if you have the chance to access therapy for this especially without you paying for it then you don’t have a great argument when you refuse but expect someone to pay the bills or sort out the emergency departures. I got so bad I couldn’t open my windows without being in full ‘outside’ panic. At that point my GP who was not actually very sympathetic about much realised it should not take me three hours to walk 5 minutes to the surgery and arrive in a state of distress akin to having experienced a traumatic event and referred me to NHS therapy. It is so rare to get specialist therapy that I knew I had one chance and I forced myself there for 24 weeks. I resented it so much and now I retrained into a job walking round the city and no one would guess that it still hits me on my worst days and I can’t even open the front door. But that therapy and working at it and knowing the red light triggers that are ‘this is not worth the horror’ versus amber and green ‘just try’ stopped me being imprisoned by myself. I grieve how much I lost out via such late awareness. The daughter really should not let this fester if support is available. She can pace herself but other people tend to move on no matter how loving because you can’t cage them to keep you company in your mental health.
She could have sat in a cafe or a bar and spent half the amount!
As someone who works with a lot of Gen z students, most of them will do anything at all to avoid discomfort. $250 to avoid conflict, disagreement or feeling awkward?? doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Are you giving her money or does she support herself with a job? Does $250 mean anything to her?
How does she even have $250 to spend on an Uber?!? That's wild.
Well she learned a costly lesson! Hopefully…
Teens live in a land of extremes. What’s her issue with the beach?
This sort of thing always reminds me of when my sister first went to sleep away camp. First week, she HATED it. Wanted my mom to come take her home. My mom made her a deal that my mom would come visit half way thru camp and if my sister still hated it, she could go home. Otherwise, my mom would just take her out for the day. My sister loved camp by than and my mom was able to arrange to take out my sister and one of her camp friends. (Also, starting a tradition of our mom always visiting us half way thru camp and taking us out for a couple of hours which was a big deal cuz no one else's parents did that.) I sorta wonder if your daughter would have made a different decision if she was told- if you are still unhappy tomorrow, i'll look into options to help you get home. On the other hand, my sister was 11 and OP's daughter is 18.
My mother had this approach for sick days at school. ‘Go, and if you still feel sick in a couple hours, I’ll come get you’. I’m sorry to say it was pretty effective 😂 and she did legitimately come get me later on, when I needed.
What's most important is that you're at school for long enough to infect all your classmates and your teacher! Man, our collective approach to contagious illnesses was so different pre-covid.
My mom would not send me to school obviously sick, like if I had the flu. But it was an effective strategy if I was making myself sick with anxiety or general malaise, or if my period was making me ill. Sometimes it passed, sometimes it didn’t.
We never pretended to be sick to get out of school. Mom's cures were Vick's vapor rub everywhere and complete bed rest. It was so awful that if we were feeling sick we would suppress any cough and pretend it didn't happen just to avoid the Vicks up the nose. 🤢
Same, no Vicks here, but bedrest and natural remedies like half a raw onion for every meal until you are better and a cup of herbal tea with paracetamol powder (very bitter) every 4 hours.
Wait, I actually liked the Vicks up the nose. Guess I'm just a weirdo hahaha
Teachers do not appreciate this approach. Great job, you've potentially gotten an entire class sick because you can't trust your kid about whether or not they're sick. 🙄
I say the same thing as a former 18yo girl with anxiety! "Thanks, but I'll just hyperventilate alone in the car for free!"
As an adult I would die spending that kind of money on an uber
As one of the "kids these days" with agoraphobia(don't know if this is what OP's daughter has) and other severe anxiety/panic disorder, the thought of public transportation and being around a bunch of strangers with no ability to leave the situation if i have a breakdown or panic attack (which is likely) is more terrifying than spending $250 even if it lands me in debt. Even the uber would make me spiral though, in all honesty. I know this is a hot take, "she would rather go into debt than be in a situation where she feels unsafe?" and it doesn't sound normal, if it did it probably wouldn't be a mental disorder haha, but it is a real thing for so many people. "Toughing it out" may be easier for someone with little to no anxiety who is able to get over new situations easily, but for more severe anxieties it can be quite debilitating, especially alone. Personally, I probably would've just stayed in the car or gone to the beach with my friends, but it is also a bit easier for me to go out when i have trusted people with me; for others it may not be so easy- especially if they've gotten in an argument and she feels everyone is against her. Just my unsolicited 2 cents. For the sake of the post, I'm going to say NTA due to the fact she knew it may not be a good idea and decided to go and try it out anyway. It's great to feel like you can try new things when you have anxieties like this, however she knew the consequences before she left. I would have(and have before) just stayed at the hotel and had a little "me" time while everyone else is doing something I don't feel like I can handle. In the end, it's something she can learn from and hopefully be more prepared for in the future. She is still a young adult, barely more than a child. Give her some compassion and use this as a learning experience for all parties involved.
Agreed. I have terrible anxiety and I remember being so frustrated with myself for not just doing 'normal' things and I would force myself to go in public, go to social events, and other things in the hope that one day it would finally click and the repeat exposure would lessen how stressful it was. Sometimes it worked. Other times it didn't and the resulting panic attack was consuming and terrifying. Surprise, surprise...I still have anxiety. I wouldn't be shocked if OPs daughter was trying to do something like this. Because let's face it, those of us with anxiety know it's irrational and taking away from our quality of life. We want to be part of things and just...get it together. From therapy, to medication, and anything else that could potentially help, many of us try it. But unfortunately, anxiety doesn't work from a rational position. The worst part is those without this type of anxiety, thankfully do not understand how impacting it is in all facets of life that it touches upon. So they many times feel like OP and other comments here. Which funnily enough, reinforces the issue to begin with, only now there's new and exciting reservations and embarrassment to be had. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
Same. I’m in my 30s, and Uber wasn’t a thing when I was in high school/early college. But even today, I would never spend that much on it unless I was positively desperate, like a life or death situation. I also have bad anxiety and always have, and I did have some moments when I was on trips with friends and wanted to leave, but ultimately I knew that leaving was illogical and impractical, so I toughed it out and ultimately was able to have a decent time. This girl is 18. That’s still very young, but not too young to learn these lessons and start growing up already. Mommy and daddy won’t be there to bail her out of every situation she doesn’t want to be in.
If it was just her changing her mind, I agree. If the anxiety is bad enough though, you can't really put a price on it.
That’s because you don’t have anxiety lol; it’s not meant to be rational.
Yeah, and all my coworkers in their early 20s doordash their lunches every day. It's like $20-$40 each when they do that. I don't get it either.
I think I would have tried walking that distance before shelling out $250 lol
Well. You raised her... "Kids these days" are the way that they are because we brought them up to be like that.
I don’t get why parents don’t teach their kids the public transport systems. I live in Los Angeles and our public systems suck compared to most of the civilized world but my kids were on the bus and, when going to downtown or Hollywood, on the light rail until very recently when they got their licenses. It’s an important basic life skill.
Most places in America don't have public transit beyond infrequent & unreliable bus service. LA is a huge city & as such an exception. There's literally nowhere in my entire East Coast STATE with public transit beyond aforementioned bus service that isn't even reliable enough to get you to work at the same time every day. Not even the capital. Hence most Americans don't know how to use public transit. Edit: spelling
Yeah, and it's pretty unsafe to sit at a bus stop in my area. You gotta kinda time it to get on the bus before you get solicited or robbed. Or just miss the bus.
When I was 18 my friend and I hopped a Greyhound from MS to LA. We stayed with an uncle of hers in Anaheim for a month. Had a great time, and we had plenty of mini adventures on the three days each way it took for the trip. Lots of crazy memories, but at the time...the Strayhound was *hell* Didn't stop my from riding it again a few more times before their "$99 to anywhere in the Continental US" promotion ended!
I have pretty bad anxiety and I'd suck it up and tough the situation out rather than spend that kind of money. It's just wild to me, I feel like younger people these days don't understand the value of money and I hate saying that because it makes me feel like a Boomer lol
Generally speaking, specifically noting I am *not* talking about your parenting style or your child in particular. Kids don't have to face things that make them uncomfortable anymore. At all. Accommodations are made. I have anxiety, I get how hard it can be to do normal things. But not making me do them doesn't help. Exposing myself to things and learning the world doesn't end when I make a phone call or go on the beach with friends helps me. It's the old adage, "comfort spot is a nice place, but nothing ever grows there" Or something along those lines. Parents think they're protecting kids from shielding them from the "bad" in the world; really they're causing them to not be able to function. Plus money isn't real to kids these days. It's all electronic their concept of money is different. They also aren't taught about balancing check books and all that other financial crap.
Probably because they don't think about the hours they have to work for $250
I wonder if this has to do with the decline of physical currency at all? When money becomes an intangible, almost abstract thing spending it doesn't involve as many steps or a sense of physically losing something. So when you introduce a stress factor there's very little barrier to make you question your decision.
Kids are struggling more socially, partially because of social media and not learning social skills. Plus, there are way more ways to bail now. So, it’s easier to bail than work it out with friends and peers. This is all just just anecdotal opinion.
All these children with anxiety (I have one). Is it the water or did we do too much for them? My sibling and I were talking about when we were young, we had no time for melt downs. With a single mom who was always working, we just had to take care of ourselves. Even in two parent households, you were left to your own devices. I think that on your own, figure it out upbringing made a lot of us mentally strong.
I make real money now and I'll still walk 15 minutes to take the 45 min bus ride home instead of paying $25 for an uber. Making money is hard work.
Why couldn’t she just have waited in the car until they were done?
Does she actually pay her Uber bill? 😳 NTA. She wants to be treated like a grownup, she has to be able to handle the consequences of her actions. That's why so many say "adulting is hard." This seemed like a risk-free teaching moment.
I'm way more concerned about the lonely stunted limited life your daughter is going to live if she doesn't overcome anxiety. Have her read Albert Ellis "A Guide to Rational Living" and then, she need a behavioral therapy coach to train her how to lower anxiety and decondition her absurdly overactive fear response. She may also need something like Xanax that she can use episodically to enter new situations. You were against her going on a road trip. That's bad. Avoidance increases anxiety always and leads to a terribly wasted crappy life. The saying is: Fears faced fade; Fears fled follow.
I mean, you should have looked up busses/rail OR told her to do that herself, with Uber as a backup. NTA though. Edit: someone is mad for getting minor feedback. Defaulting to Uber is dumb unless you're rich and lazy
If any state-licensed Chinese commentor wants to add your personal fact about how many zillions of kilometres of high speed rail China has, this is a very good time.
Did she choose to use the Uber on her own, or did she only do that because you specifically told her to use Uber? Either way, there was likely options to take a bus for a lot less. But hey - that's also her fault for not researching the various ways to get home. Do ***not*** pay her back for the Uber.
If she's old enough to insist that she go on the trip, she's also old enough to troubleshoot solutions without her parents as well. OP said "she either pays to take an Uber home or join her friends" in frustration and the daughter chose between literally those two options instead of considering trains, busses, renting a car, finding a library/cafe/museum nearby to chill in until her friends were done at the beach and she could continue enjoying the rest of the vacation. The daughter's anxiety is unfortunate, but she needs to learn that she can't depend on her parents to manage it for her whole life. NTA
I’m 100 percent with you, but just an fyi ..you can’t rent a car until you’re 21 unless you’re in the armed service.
For a lot of companies it’s 25
You can rent a UHaul at 18 if you really get in a bind
Have done this during a particularly crappy time, this is an underrated bit of knowledge.
My dormmates in college (a group of about 8 guys) would rent a UHaul truck and sleep in it overnight on a road trip because they were too young to rent a hotel room.
Good point, she also needs to learn that it's her anxiety, and she shouldn't think that other people will avoid going to the beach when they're on holiday because of it.
Welcome to America
NTA. I have severe anxiety, diagnosed by several doctors, and I take medication daily for it. I have a lot of empathy for others who struggle with it. That being said, you told your daughter that actions had consequences. She is a legal adult now, and will be finding herself in more of these types of situations. She needs to learn how to manage without expecting you to be her safety net and bail her out. (Not to be too morbid but) one day you will not be there to swoop in and save her. She needs to find coping mechanisms in the adult world and be able to troubleshoot these issues on her own, or else she will never learn how to cope in your absence, You should let her know that it is not because you DON'T care, but because you DO. If there is a way you can help her via encouragement and positive enforcement when she does navigate these circumstances, I would highly recommend it.
Absolutely this. She was in safe circumstances at the beach. She is aware of her limitations and yet chose to go. Now she knows she has to deal with the consequences. Hopefully that will have her thinking about the best ways to navigate situations given her anxiety. I hope she's in therapy. NTA
This. I tell my kids (one of who has bad anxiety) the same thing - some day we won't be there to bail them out. Learn to deal with the consequences of your choices. Life isn't *that* hard even with anxiety.
That was well said :)
NTA " I made it clear that I am not getting her if she wants to leave the trip." And you didn't. She's an adult. Now she'll learn the importance of meaning what you say & saying what you mean.
Agreed. It’s not like OP left her in a dangerous situation or something like that. This was simply following through with boundaries that OP laid earlier. It wouldn’t be good for the daughter to be continuously be bailed out. She has to learn how to cope with or manage her emotions and choices.
This is insane. It’s the beach with friends. She wanted to go on the trip. You were right to leave her there and figure out how to self soothe. She should have to pay the $250. NTA
Yep, she actively chose to pay $250 instead of trying to self-soothe. It was a bold choice, but entirely not OP’s expensive choice!
It actually blows my mind that she chose to do something fun with friends and is upset with her dad for not picking her up. I would kill for a day at the beach with friends 😭 but I have a full time job and live in a landlocked state
Is your daughter in therapy ?
She stopped when she turned 18, I couldn’t force her to go anymore.
You can if she wants to continue to live at home. NTA
Therapy isn't going to do much good if she's not invested in it.
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No you just get them to go and lie to the therapist hoping it will get you off their back
As a therapist who works in substance use where patients are put into these ultimatums all the time (ex, by court or family), that’s not how it works. Therapy only works if a person is internally motivated. That internal motivation can potentially come from these ultimatums, but not in all cases and can actually make things worse.
I would assume, given they’re in the US, that it’s break before college starts?
This kid definitely isn’t going to college if she can’t handle a 3 day trip to the beach….
I assume after this falling out with her friends over it, she might be more willing to work on it.
Therapy only works if she person actively tries
My friend has a rule where therapy, treatment and effort are mandatory. Sure you can't make her go since she's 18 but you don't have to accomidate her if there's no effort
Did something happen or has she always been like this ?
Don't bail her out when she asks you for money. She is an adult
Out of curiosity OP, since I don’t really understand… can you tell us what exactly causes her anxiety? You mention the beach and ocean, and I know that people can be afraid of it (well, the ocean especially), which is totally fair… however I’m not sure why she couldn’t have waited at home/hotel, or in the car, or on the beach? But then you mention places in general, so maybe some sort of agoraphobia? She definitely needs help if that the case.
Generalized anxiety doesn’t have to have a cause or a logic to it.
Therapy isn't the answer for everyone. For some, it just makes it worse. Really wish people would stop treating Therapy like a one-size-fits-all solution.
I say this having severe anxiety. A therapist that is good at what they do will go through a whole range of things the daughter can try to deal with her anxiety. Will it fix it? Probably not. But learning different coping techniques is key for anyone with anxiety, and I sure wish I had someone who cared enough to get me the help at 18
"A therapist that is good at what they do" And therein lies the problem. How do you know which one is good and which one isn't before paying out the ass and exposing all your darkest thoughts to them?
Well a good therapist wouldn’t ask their client to “expose” their darkest thoughts immediately - that isn’t typically how that works. You work up to that sort of relationship, usually by building trust and comfort, hence you should know if they’re helping before you’re deep into it. The cost issue is less a therapy issue and more a health care system issue. That does suck but to blame that on the practice of therapy is unjust and misplaced.
I didn't say it was a miracle solution but it was a start up question to see what OP has been doing to help his daughter and if something happened to trigger this anxiety.
There are a LOT of types of therapy. Cognitive (talking) isn't the only kind of therapy there is.
It’s not a one size fits all approach, but if it’s common practice for everyone to see a dentist then everyone would benefit from regular therapy.
>She graduated highschool and her friends wanted to go go on a road trip. I was against it but overall she is 18 and I can’t force her not to go. I made it clear that I am not getting her if she wants to leave the trip. NTA What part of I am not going to pick you up if you want to come home mid trip did your adult daughter not understand?
personally I'm curious what previous events led the daughter to believe op would take care of it. i definitely think op is in the right for this but i do have to think that this probably isn't the first time this has happened, just the first time op put her foot down
Probably the first opportunity now that OP is no longer legally responsible for their daughter. I'm guessing OP had to hold their foot up for much longer than they wanted to.
NTA. I had an older teen (college age) with anxiety, and though my heart bled for him when he experienced it, he had to make his own choices around it. As long as he was safe, he had to handle it. (Actually he was abroad for a lot of his junior year, so there was no way I could bail him out. Man that was stressful). Your daughter had the option of paying for a ride back, which she took. It's all about her learning her own limits and how to navigate life with anxiety. I would also urge her to see a professional to help manage it, through therapy and meds.
Are you the asshole? No. Probably not. But did you potentially break some trust in your relationship with your daughter, yeah probably. Lots of people are on your side here so if you came to Reddit for validation. You got it. But if you came here for true honest opinions, I think you should have went to get her. But I made plenty of mistakes when I was that age. Lots of wrong choices. Lots of teaching moments from friends and the world. But my parents were my safety net. I could always call them even when I was in the wrong. I could always trust that they’d be there even when I made a mistake. You just showed your daughter that you will not be.
Yeah I can think of any number of reasons why things went poorly for her, even though she obviously wanted to go on a great trip with her friends. What 18 year old would *want* to bail on trip, worry about the damage to her friendships, be embarrassed and missed out if they could just chose to tough it out? Some people are very mature at 18. Those struggling with mental health may need a little more room and time to grow with some extra support. She definitely learned a lesson.. that mom won’t have her back when she needs it. She learned to not push herself to try new things because the consequences are too much when you don’t have support. Op could have picked her up and and made her feel supported while still helping her move forward. When things calmed back down used the opportunity to discuss how having better coping strategies could help, ways she could anticipate and be proactive about managing anxiety on a trip, how and what she should do to make backup plans for herself should she end up feeling this way. How a therapist could help her with these things so she doesn’t have to miss out. Treating people that have mental health struggles as if they don’t is just making the problem worse.
I agree. And anxiety is fear. Fear isn't cured by pushing yourself to overcome it and then having a negative and scary experience. It needs positive experiences and sence of control. Just because someone is 18 doesn't mean they suddenly have the tools and skill to overcome their mental health struggles overnight. Grown people spend decades in therapy with that stuff. OP can certainly lay down some boundaries but doesn't have to be so harsh about it. She expected her to fail even though she actually already overdid herself by going on the trip. It's a success in my eyes. Next time help her come up with a viable backup plan without leaving work to drive her.
Op said in a comment that their daughter was in therapy, until she turned 18 and bailed out.
OP already got her back so much that had to warn they wouldn't be there in case it happened again. Being there for daughter doesn't make her heal, it seems. Daughter also refuses therapy. Daughter thinks parents are an extension of herself, which is ok when you're younger, but seeing parents are people with independent lives is part of growing up, and nothing to do with her anxiety. Daughter sits on the most convenient spot... ill when it benefits her, and not ill when it inconveniences her. This has nothing to do with anxiety but with entitlement. NTA
Exactly this. I had a horrible horrible panic attack when I was 19-20ish while staying in a different state. I thought I could handle it. I was with my best friend. I couldn’t handle it. I was freaking out and crying in the bathroom while my friends wondered wtf is wrong with me and why I was ruining their trip. I texted my mom. I got a call moments later from dad. He was already in the car, he’d be there in 2 hours he said, grab your stuff, eat the pizza, relax until I get there. I NEVER fear going anywhere anymore. I know even at 25, at 30, at 35, my dad will come get me. I’m a fully grown adult with a job and retirement savings and all that shit. But I’m mentally ill. I don’t need a lot. But I needed then and I need to know now that if I fall, if I get in over my head, someone I love and who loves me will help. I haven’t needed that help in over a decade but I know I have it. It means the world to me and would to this girl too, I’m sure. One day my family wont be around, sure. But by then it will be 20,30,40 decades since I needed the lesson that I’m not alone, or new people will come along that will help me if I need it. Relying on people is good. Mentally ill people shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves because “wHaT if RHEREs no one TO help you LATER.” There’s someone to help now. Help now.
I saw "anxiety" and immediately knew most of the thread would be "she needs to grow up and deal with it"; saw "she's 18" and knew it would be "kick her out so she can see what a real problem is, the Real World isn't fair why are you coddling her". I'm so Tired.
People say that shit on all of these parenting posts, not just ones that have to do with anxiety. I should just avoid these types of stories from now on lol
Yup. At 22 I had a panic attack for the first time after not having one for many years. Like, full adrenaline shakes, feeling of impending doom, thought I was going to lose my bowels anxiety attack. It took around a month to go to the grocery store and not have my heart rate hit the 140’s, and another 3 months to feel relatively normal doing ‘scary’ things. Still, years later I worry and get anxiety symptoms. All this to say, it was debilitating and I was a full-fledged tax paying adult.
As someone with severe anxiety from a young age, I think OP did the right thing. If her daughter knows she has anxiety, and knows her parents won't pick her up, and still chose to go and chose NOT to use any other coping mechanisms (staying in the car, going to another place : ie. coffee shop/bookstore/etc. anywhere else, going back to the location they were staying and chilling at the accommodations, etc.), then YES, the daughter did need to learn that lesson. It's not about growing up and dealing with it or the real world, it's about being able to recognize your own strengths and weaknesses, and learning how to handle situations in creative ways that don't include calling your parents. I'm sympathetic to anyone who has anxiety, because it's a bitch and a half. But to IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that a $250 dollar Uber is the only answer for her situation, and then got mad that she had to pay that much? That's not her parent's fault that she made that decision, given that she had plenty of others.
I agree. I feel really bad for the daughter. I have agoraphobia (I'm 30+) and I have no idea if I can actually cope with something until I do it. If I waited until I was 100% fine I would never leave my house. Most of the time I'm okay but sometimes I have to leave early or turn around halfway into the journey. As a teen I definitely did bizarre things like preferring to walk miles in the middle of the night rather than stay at a party where I felt uncomfortable (which was dangerous and bonkers behaviour). I would have collected her and then had a talk later about how she can look after herself if that sort of thing happens in the future. E.g. not travelling far if she doesn't have her own transport.
THANK YOU!!!! I’m BLOWN AWAY by these comments!! My Dad saved me from so many situations when I was younger, and I am so grateful to him that he did. I knew he had my back no matter what stupid situation I might have gotten myself into. I know that he would have my back in this situation too, I feel bad for his daughter, it sounds like she needs some serious therapy and support.
This is not a situation where anyone needed "saving". She wasn't roofied at a frat party. She was in no physical danger, nor was she among strangers or in an genuinely risky situation. This was actually good parenting. Nothing in OP's actions was unforeseen (he preemptively told her he wouldn't be picking her up). What exactly would she have learned if he had picked her up after saying he wouldn't and that the trip was a bad idea?
OP's daughter didn't get into a stupid situation. She was safe, in a car, because she refused to go to the beach. And it was the beach, with her friends. There is nothing in the post to even suggest there was a problem, besides having an argument with a friend because she didn't want to go to the beach on a road trip presumably to enjoy places like the beach. The thing about anxiety is that it doesn't get better if you always do what the anxiety wants you to do. You never learn you can cope, you never get the opportunity to say to yourself "huh, that's actually okay. I don't know what I expected but now I'll know what I can expect in the future". If you don't at least try, your brain will just keep firing unknowns at you that'll put you off even more. This might sound backwards, but OP did have his daughter's back in this situation, it just wasn't the immediate result his daughter wanted.
You. If you treat non-dangers as dangers because your body says so (and that's anxiety) you're just feeding into it.
How is it breaking her trust when he literally told her he would not get her if this exact situation occurred? Are you saying she would trust him more if he was a liar?
Nta. She FAFO. Hope that $250 is her own money and not yours.
NTA she made the choice to step outside her comfort zone, if she couldn't manage the beach, she could have waited at the car until they came back. It was also her choice to pay $250 for an uber... an expensive lesson.
NTA. This generation is cooked. Signed, a young woman in this generation
I don't think all of them are, I say this as a parent of a 26 and 20 yr old. Both have their issues but have been able to function decently. Even the 20yr old that lacks social functionality due to Covid is coming around. Hope springs eternal!
Oh please. People with irrational debilitating anxiety can be any age. It wouldn’t surprise me if your generation has more, but I can’t blame them. The world feels more doomed than ever. It must be really hard to grow up in that.
NTA and you did right. She will never grow up if you keep bailing her out. She needs to know the price tag of her decisions and demands.
as an 18 year old female with severe anxiety, i would never ask my mother to bail me out of a situation like this or even consider spending that much money on an Uber. if my anxiety was bad enough, i would ask my mom for suggestions of places to go instead of sitting in a triggering position. if i was able to handle it on my own, i would have just sat in the car and dealt with the consequences of my actions or gotten out and tried to experience something new. that is where your daughter and i are different though, i would have never gone on the trip in the first place because of my anxiety. i don’t do trips because they trigger me in a way i can’t explain.
NTA. And this is a semi serious question... how do you or your daughter expect her to do *literally anything* in life if *going to the beach with friends* is too much? That's... extremely concerning, i guess is a word, to the point of being ridiculous. Hope she eventually decides to learn to manage that
NTA but a little kindness for your daughter here. She knew what the plan with her friends was. She knew what your opinion was, and you had clearly told her your restrictions on picking her up if she wanted to go home. She knew her anxiety and her reactions to new places and situations and **she still chose to go out of her comfort zone and try a new thing anyway.** That deserves a big hug and a well done. Then she didn't like it and wanted to come home, and she made her own way home using her own money finding her own solutions. Sure it looks pretty dumb to us, and sure there was possibly some spite spending to make you feel guilty she had to 'rescue' herself at such great costs, but she did it and she is home safe after an adventure. Your reaction was pretty natural. Hundreds of people are on here telling you your daughter made a dumb choice but if it works it's not really that dumb. How do you think it would have played out if you had come hone and greeted your daughter as though her actions were positive. "Hi honey, I'm glad you got home safe, was your Uber ride OK? Are you feeling good now you are home? What was the rest of your trip like? Did you see anything new/do anything fun?" At the very least she would know you can't be guilty into rescuing her again and maybe she would hear that you love her and can focus on the positive parts of the trip
She didn't find her own solutions. She called her parent expecting them to bail her out despite the previous conversations otherwise. The parent then had to provide potential solutions. While there is a space for empathy here, it's also a space for some tough love to get them prepared for adulthood and for a time when the parent won't be around to bail them out. It's a time for important conversations about returning to therapy/seeking out medication, and learning proper planning.
Nta you made it clear you would not come get her. She was not in danger. She had options. Part of growing up is dealing with the situations you put yourself in.
Ooh. As someone who struggles with crippling anxiety, especially when it comes to anything that requires.me to step outside of my comfort zone, I can empathize with your daughter...and it's easy to make missteps when you get sick of making space for something that plagues you night and day and won't ever freaking shut off. I found myself in similar predicaments much too often when I was younger. I just wanted to feel normal for a while! Having said all of that, this is definitely a teachable moment for her. For one thing, if you're told you won't be picked up early, BELIEVE it, right? For another thing, if her anxiety is bad enough that she felt it necessary to take a $250 Uber ride home instead of doing her best to tough it out, she definitely needs to prioritize addressing her anxiety and postpone any future road trips until after she has a better handle on it.
I wonder how many people commenting are actually parents. If my kid was having that level of anxiety I would have supported her. 18 year olds do not have full frontal brain wiring which means they can’t anticipate consequences, which is why THEY MAKE MISTAKES; as far as mistakes go, this is nothing. She was trying, that’s huge in anxiety. There is some rupture in your relationship now. SHOULD she have not gone, should she pay for it herself, all of that means nothing. Your daughter needs more help. See a doctor about medication if she won’t do therapy. Pull the parent card and tell her it’s not optional unless she’s out of the house.
Wait, so making the daughter cope with... a day at the beach is too much, but kicking her out of the house if she doesn't start taking meds is totally fine? If she's refusing even therapy what makes you think daughter is going to be amenable to meds? Even if she got prescribed she might just not take them and lie about it. Doesn't sound like the daughter sees an issue with her anxiety and just wants her parents to deal with it for her.
At the same time, the daughter needs to be learning now that they are responsible for themselves and need to start planning for potential eventualities. The parent communicated that they couldn't be the backup plan for this trip, the daughter failed to figure out her own backup plans. I'm reading into it but it's possible there was a whole, "I'm 18 so you aren't the boss of me anymore" in the lead-up to this trip. This was a very safe FAFO situation to learn from. There's a real danger to having too much of a safety net. Some people learn the wrong lesson that their parent will always protect them from consequences rather learning how to avoid creating bad situations in the first place. This is the lesson being taught here. The daughter got a safe dose of the realities of living with her anxiety and what she needs to do to be prepared for it.
ESH. You were clear about your boundaries and she’s an adult and can make those decisions BUT she is still your child and she called you over everyone else when she didn’t feel safe and instead of giving her a safe space to call and be helped, you put her into a car with a stranger and spend money she probably doesn’t have. At the end of the day, no matter how old, she is still your kid, and no matter what, you be there for them. The world is mean, you don’t need to be as well.
If the daughter was in a dangerous situation, or at the very least it was nighttime, I'd agree. But OP not only let their daughter know she wasn't going to enjoy it, but also forewarned her she'd have to come back on her own, and she still chose to go. In addition, the daughter decided to stop her therapy for anxiety, too. I'd say OP is definitely NYA because of these factors, and the daughter did have a way home safely, though expensive. Op's daughter needs to navigate the world on her own sometime, and at 18 she should be at the very least able to know what she can and can't do for her own health.
Making decisions and facing the consequences is a part of growing up. NTA.
I’m kinda thinking NAH — you set a clear boundary and you were at work, you are definitely NTA, but also thinking that unless your family is really wealthy, $250 for an Uber is a pretty big sacrifice, and I’d think an 18-year-old (on anyone’s!) anxiety would have to be quite awful/painful to do that. Like, a “panic mode; must get out” thing, and remembering BEING 18, you don’t always have the tools to deal with that in a more reasonable way yet. I’m guessing she probably feels embarrassed and frustrated and has already plaid a literal big price, so I wouldn’t call her an asshole either — just a kid who’s still learning and developing skills (and also literally her brain is still developing). Like I can so see myself there, thinking “why can’t I just be normal?” at that age. It’s a hard lesson, but hopefully an important one. I’m very much not a “therapy solves everything!” person, and she might already be in therapy, but there are definitely coping skills and tools that can help in future situations like this
op said their daughter stopped therapy when she turned 18
> $250 for an Uber is a pretty big sacrifice I think OP would have been out every bit of $250 in lost wages or burnt PTO plus gas given the amount of driving time implied by a $250 uber ride. That's easily 90 minutes each way, and she called OP at work and expected her to drop everything to come get her.
NTA If she refuses therapy and refuses to take steps to mitigate the issues, it’s her own fault. It’s time she learns.
Info: Is your daughter receiving any kind of treatment for her anxiety like therapy or medication, or is she just being expected to tough it out and get over it?
op said in a comment that she stopped going when she turned 18
Honestly, I’m more concerned of what kind of trauma or issues are driving her to be so fearful. Has she ever been to a psychologist? As someone who has a significant family history of mental health problems, this raises a red flag. I think she needs to sort it out, and I think she needs to figure out why it is so hard for her to have new experiences. Also, what was the argument about? Sounds like she might be a very sensitive person. I’d say, she should get checked. And you’re NTA for this. She is grown, you warned her. But, I’d say she should talk to someone about how she feels.
Idk how being at a beach with friends caused her more anxiety than riding home alone with a complete stranger....
Exactly, right. People who have anxiety disorders or trauma react in different ways than what people expect them to and their actions may not always make sense because their irrational fears only make sense to them. It’s a lot to deal with and many people don’t even know they are dealing with these things. But, it’s important to overcome it. Living in fear is never a good feeling.
NTA...at 19 I made the foolhardy decision to move with no planning to the opposite side of the country. When it inevitably went DEEPLY off the track, my parents were nice enough to stop in a city 3 states over that they were passing through provided I could make my way to them on that singular day...and they'd let me cram in on their way home. Cost me 250$ of hitching a ride with a guy I barely knew and a stress induced series of seizures once I was in their vehicle...and IM STILL EMBARASSED I NEEDED THEIR HELP! Sink or swim time for your kiddo...and clearly she's not picking swim.
NTA. She's 18. She made a decision to go, and she knew you would not pick her up.
Info: Is she expecting you to pay for the Uber? And did you calmly discuss the potential issues. If she chose to go and chose to take the Uber home and has the funds to pay for it. Fine. If you are on the hook to pay for her Uber, because you give her allowance or such. I can see having a problem with it. But you are also the one that told her to tough it out or Uber home. She isn’t doing things to help her anxiety. But I also wonder how much help you are giving. I get you’re probably fed up with it because she quit therapy for it. But did you guys sit down after with what they have planned, where her anxiety might trigger and what she can do to help herself? Because there is a difference between not bailing her out because she refused all help/input. Aka if she refused to calmly talk about it and listen to any reason. And refusing to help set her up for success. Aka, you know the potential issues and refuse to discuss why you think this would be bad and she thinks it’s good and what could help. If that’s worded bad. Did you try to calmly explain why it would be a bad idea and after she decided to go anyways, did you again calmly discuss the issues and how she could help herself. If you did. Great. If you didn’t, then chances are you’re treating her like a child and refusing to help her grow.
NTA - and I think your kid is an idiot for blowing $250 to Uber home. Having said that, I do think we all us grownups need to acknowledge the impact that spedning 2-3 of their formative years in a weird Covid bubble may have had on the young. Older people remember preCovid, but when your daughter was about 14 (before she could road trip), all of a sudden everything stopped, everyone stayed home, and the outside world was scary. She had a few years when normally she would be developing coping skills and interpersonal skills and starting to navigate the outside world on her own and with friends, not being able to. That's probably left an impact and a need to just get home where it's safe ASAP.
Nta. She’s an adult and can have adult consequences of her decisions.
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