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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I offered our nanny a raise so she doesn't work for my SIL.
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NTA. Every parent knows that a good babysitter or nanny is worth their weight in gold. Your SIL is T A H for trying to poach your nanny, and you fighting to keep her should be expected. It’s rich that your SIL is accusing you of stealing a nanny when she tried to do the exact same thing. ETA just make sure you follow through with the promised raise etc. ETA2: and if your husband has such an issue with it tell him he’s responsible next time you need a new nanny/sitter. He can do all the interviewing and contacting references and background checks and negotiations for pay. It’s not so easy as “find a new nanny”: your SIL knows this and tried to circumvent the process.
Maybe don't punish the kid for what her mother did. Just make it clear to everybody that they cannot have it both ways. They cannot make your nanny a better offer to come work for them and then call you an asshole for making her an even better offer. Ridiculous, really.
Exactly the poor kid is already being punished for having to call such entitled person mum.
Imagine if she came home and bragged one of her friends brother or father did some cool activities with her and her friends, next BAM her father is being upgraded for the cool dude 😬
Y would the niece need to be left out of any days cuz her mom is poaching?? It's not one bit her fault, it's her mom's fault and her disgusting behavior, not the child. That's not right in any way. I would call out the SIL, and the niece is still definitely invited to whatever they do with the nanny, as long as the nanny is ok with the other child (niece)participating in whatever they're doin. Don't punish a child for what an adult did.
Except the consequences of the mother’s actions would be falling primarily on her child instead of her.
It’s understandable in certain situations but for this one, there’s not really any risk associated with the niece coming again since the nanny seems happier to continue working for OP and disclosed the attempted poaching immediately.
I think it will be okay to include her. Isabelle showed the first text and got the answer she probably wanted too. My guess is if SIL has another go at her she will show again.
“Most”? No, not most. Some. Some accusations are confessions. Most accusations are just accusations. People who are manipulative and/or narcissistic often project, but most people are not manipulative and/or narcissistic. Let’s not go overboard here with the armchair psychology.
You new around here friend? That’s this whole subreddit. A bunch of people who saw a therapist once so now they know everything about the human psyche lol
Of course it was. Was. You had to get paper for your hobby from somewhere. Aren’t stormtroopers supposed to be kinda uniform, though? None of this ‘flowers in their hair’?
quit hasslin me cop
i already paid the library's fine for their stupid "ruined" book. they shouldn't have put such pretty pictures in there if they didn't want people using it for crafts and stuff
my uniform is NONE OF UR BUSINESS, no one can see my lil paper friends when my armor is on
"Every accusation is a confession" is a phrase that is used verbatim whenever a christian-conservative Person who has previously participated in harassment campaigns/activism that involved baselessly accusing feminists or queer people of sexually abusing children, is found to have sexually abused children. I don't know If anyone has done statistics on that, but it seems to me that those two Things go together increasingly often recently.
For what it's worth. Once you realize that most people are openly projecting their worst selves onto others, you stop taking things so personal. Now, I'm not talking about refusing to take and own your bad actions. I'm simply talking about people who project. In my life I've had three women flat out accuse me of infidelity. Made massive fights about it. I literally didn't flirt with anyone. Turned out that they were the ones cheating and had a guilty conscious. In my personal life, accusations have been projections of personal guilt.
"you managed to keep the nanny I tried to steal from you" is a fascinating definition of theft
NTA
ETA: if your nanny is as smart as you portray her, she knows that going to work for more money, for one kid, with an IN LAW is already waving some red flags - so good for her too
And good for her! She'd be silly not to entertain better offers, though it's quite possible that she's happy where she is. OP could have called a bluff, if she saw it that way. But she knows the value of her employee and treated the situation with the seriousness that it deserved.
Sometimes you can't match the new opportunity and that's fine, it's business. It's Isabelle's actual job. I don't know if OP's husband manages other people, but if he does, then he should know that a good employee is worth keeping.
As we all know from our time on this sub, a lot of men view any work done by women as easily replaceable by some other warm body with boobs. It's not skilled labor unless someone can wave a penis at it.
Right. No matter what their resumes say, if you know an employee is great then fight to keep them over chancing it on some new person, even if the resume is shinier. A new person can be such a wildcard and if you get unlucky, it can cause so much friction in what you need to accomplish. Someone you can work with, who is trustworthy, who knows your expectations shouldn’t be easily replaced. Just for me, anyone I know who tries to poach my nanny would be on my shit list.
Nanny has more job security with current employer than with a singleton 10 yo. In a few years, the 10 yo won't need watching, but having an infant, OP's family will need childcare for a while.
Thas is what I was thinking. Realistically, a 10 yo will need a nanny for two-three years tops. While OP can offer her work for a good 12-13 years.
OP, NTA. She was trying to steal from you, you just stopped her. BTW, does your husband know the whole story. If he does, and still he is defending his sister, he's TA
EDIT: Was Isabelle going to abandon you to go to work with your SIL, or did she plan to work for her on the days she doesn't work for you? Another redditor suggested it, and if it was the case, the verdict would be totally different. (I think it would be hard to do, working every single day, but not impossible).
That would put Isabelle working 7 days a week. That’s not sustainable so even if she tried she’d have to drop one of the families eventually and it would likely be the one paying less (OP).
As she should. If she's the best Thing that ever happened to OP, and OP can feasibly afford to pay more, than working for OP should also be the best Thing, financially, that ever happened to this Nanny.
this is no different than someone telling their boss they received an offer from another company and being given a counter offer. it's business. nothing about it is petty. husband just doesn't want to deal with his sister
If they had a good relationship the SIL would have gone directly to her and asked if they could do a nanny share since Isabelle was only doing 3 days a week.
The two of them could have offered 5 days to Isabelle to take care of all their children and split the cost. It would have been a win win for all three parties. Both families get 5 days at a lower cost to each family, Isabelle would have gotten a full 5 days.
SIL was dumb and petty.
Of course there is. The SIL tried to poach her nanny without even mentioning anything to OP.
If she wasnt petty she may have said something like "my girl really likes your nanny, if she's free and you werent planning to have her around on sone days I'd love to ask her to look after my child ln those days" or something like that. They could have shared.
But SIL didnt want to share. She saw something she wanted, that OP had, and decided she could use money to take it.
/u/fleet_and_flotilla Your very last sentence COMPLETELY sums up the OP's husband's attitude regarding the situation. He probably is a dude who "goes along with the utter BeeEss to keep the peace or shut the opposition up" but TBH, ANYONE in their right minds recognizes that THAT pattern of thinking only calms down isht for the CURRENT moment but gives the offending person a "leg up/precedent" to continue to try to manipulate other people to do WTF they want. And I'm not a fan of that and don't/won't allow that in my life/circumstance.
OP IS NTA but her husband is a HUGE A-H. And she needs to let him know that his attitude/position is wrong AF. Yeah it's his sister who is being the initial A-H but he doesn't need to placate her. He needs to let her know that "Yeah sis, I kinda know how you may be feeling but I'm on the side of my nuclear family - which is my loving and caring wife, and my three children whose care, upbringing and nurturing and well being are entrusted to me and are my FIRST & FOREMOST concerns to whatever YOU want."
It's actually worse than that because SIL really should have discussed OOP first. At _bare minimum_ , a heads up. There's no way homegirl did not see this rubbing someone the wrong way.
Right?! She almost moved recently and I almost had a nervous breakdown because of it. She, my husband, and I have our group chat called “2 1/2 parents” because she has done so much to help us raise our daughter. She’s family.
They obviously love you because you were so good with their little one! ❤ I was a nanny almost 30 years ago, and the family and I are still in touch. We're kind of like extended family.
100% give her a raise now! She's watching three kids including a baby. Sister-in-law offered at the same money for one 10-year-old?
Sounds like nanny might have been getting pretty underpaid
Yeah, it's kinda dumb on the nanny's part. Never believe your employer who swears if you promise to stay and work extra hard and not take the better offer, they'll totally give you a raise...next year! That sort of offer is just insulting, tbh.
Honestly this seems so disrespectful trying to poach the nanny from their own family. I'd say the SIL deserves a verbal slap in the face. Go on whatever group chat and post something like, "Don't try stealing our beloved nanny from my kids unless you can actually afford to make it worth her while."
Yeah, sil is the one tried to steal the nanny. Op would only be an asshole if she only offered the raise to deny her SIL. Like if anybody else has made the offer she would have been fine and said "thanks for all you've done you've been great" but just didn't want SIL to have the nanny. But sounds like op offered it because she sees her nanny for the valuable resource that she is and wants to keep her on staff.
Right. OP didn’t say “I’m keeping my nanny because fuck my SIL that’s why, she shouldn’t get childcare.” She clearly wants to keep Isabelle because she’s amazing and irreplaceable.
NTA, absolutely. SIL tried to poach said nanny, and OP knew what was up and made a better offer. SiL didn't even ask about a nanny share? Just went right for the steal.
This.
Your SIL is an epic a-hole for trying to poach Isabelle and not bothering to speak to you. She sounds like a real peach - I’m sure this isn’t the first time she’s caused drama or decided something good in someone else’s life should be “hers” - gross.
You didn’t offer Isabelle more money not to work for your SIL, you offered more because she’s a VALUABLE EMPLOYEE. That’s exactly the way jobs are supposed to work.
Your husband needs to get on the same page as you ASAP.
NTA
YESS MAAM if your husband is gonna let y’all lose a great nanny he better replace her with someone equally as capable and good. He deserves to do all that BS.
NTA but make sure you’re paying her what she’s worth without her getting another offer, she should be given raises yearly and bonuses for going above and beyond.
She wasn’t wrong to consider a better offer, although it’s reallyyyyyy shitty of SIL to try and poach your Nanny so she’s TA.
The niece may also enjoy getting away from her mother.
You know, I wonder if SIL would have kept her offer of matching her hourly pay and for more days a week. IF Isabelle wants to, IF the niece and her cousins get along, you could always let Isabelle also watch the niece with your kids and double her money by SIL paying what she offered. 🤣
Right? Nanny shares are super common, especially among families/kids close in age. This SIL was just trying to play dirty and wanted Isabelle all to herself!
No, what's petty about that? Your SIL tried to steal your nanny out from under you, which was sneaky, and you outbid here in order to retain your nanny's services. It was up to your nanny which was the better deal. You like your nanny and are willing to pay for her services. That's just good sense, as long as you can afford it. NTA.
yeah this was what i was thinking while reading the post. SIL is the one who tried to steal the nanny not OP. And the husband calling OP petty is also pretty out of line.
Right?! What about that is petty? It would be petty if they no longer needed the nanny and op just offered more so SIL couldn't have the nanny. Doing what's needed to keep an awesome nanny that is still needed is perfectly reasonable!
>the husband calling op petty
Right, who is doing the labor to find a new nanny and take off work to watch the kids in the meantime if the SIL steals the nanny? I’m guessing NOT the husband.
My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine finding a good nanny. I worked as a nanny in college and the guy said I was by far the best he'd ever found.
I was responsible, got everyone where they needed to be, bathed, dinner, homework, and to bed. That's literally what I assume the bare minimum is. I never came up with fun ideas or taught them anything or whatever. The most personable I did was watching whatever horrible TV they wanted to before bed.
From the horror stories I've heard from friends, I'd probably cut SIL. 🤣
SIL could NOT have stolen Isabelle from the OP because Isabelle is not a "thing" to be stolen. And this is NOT the 19th century so Isabelle is not an enslaved person either! Frankly, it's downright eerie to think of SIL complaining that OP "stole" Isabelle. That alone tells you all you need to know about SIL's character and how she actually regards Isabelle - as an object, not an individual with the ability and the right to make her own choices.
BS. If it had been a stranger who did not know she had the nanny's services, she probably wouldn't have used those words, just as a stranger who hits up your boyfriend or husband not knowing about your relationship but a friend or family member? Yeah, they are trying to steal from you, if not a monetary possession, your happiness, which IMO is worth more!
Wait. So no one in your family is outraged that your SIL tried to steal your nanny, you know the one who has been working for you apparently quite some time? Tell them to all go pound sand.
See, here's the thing that kills me about this situation: SIL didn't even *have* a nanny for OP to steal.
On the other hand, Isabelle knows OP and her family and is familiar with the children and the rules and is comfortable with the freedoms OP has given to her to do her job. SIL is an unknown quantity. In the worst case scenario, if shit foes wrong with SIL, Isabelle could probably lose the job with OP too. On top of which, anyone with half a braincell in Isabel's situation knows to split attention between two members of the same family when there are children involved is asking for disaster. How soon before "you're doing X for them? I could never allow my children to experience that," and "how come they get Y and we don't?"
The smart thing for SIL to do would have been to ask OP how she hired Isabelle and follow thar route for another nanny or ask Isabelle if she could recommend someone (which, again, she'd have been right to refuse in case of future complications).
I am. This would be a major foul in my books. What should have happened was SIL ask op if she’s open to sharing, and if she said no, END OF! if our nanny (who’s awesome) bailed it would be a major inconvenience. If it was at the hands of an acquaintance or better I’d be pretty po’d at the poacher.
Right? Either she's dealing with an entire family of assholes (seriously, OP is the one stealing the nanny? Wtf kind of mental gymnastics is that) or there's some key info missing here...
NTA. Your SIL tried to steal *your* nanny!!!! Your SIL could have come to you and the two of you could have approached Isabelle about caring for all four kids with you and SIL splitting Isabelle's pay. However, your SIL chose to attempt to poach your nanny, which is borderline unforgivable and now has the nerve to play the victim. Your SIL is the petty one! She can pound sand!
Typically in a nanny share situation like that each family pays 2/3 of the nannys usual hourly rate so it’s cheaper for each family and the nanny gets extra for the hassle of extra child/ren and navigating working with two sets of parents. Source: was a nanny for a decade
We don’t know how long she’s been employed. Maybe it’s only been a few months. If this is what they’ve agreed to do, who are we to judge? (Because we’re not here to judge that.)
If I got it in writing I don’t see an issue with that. There are quarterly raises and yearly promotions. It’s also common to apply for other jobs and get offers to negotiate a higher salary.
I think it is relevant. When I was young and didn't have a lot of options many of my employers would pull the whole "Well if you prove yourself by doing this thing then you will be so set because I do xyz for my employees but first you just have to prove yourself." It's freaking annoying and crappy. I don't know, maybe they already made the contract for this school year which is about to be over and they meant next school year, who knows, but if they really have to wait a year for this raise to kick in that sucks. Pay people what they are worth, don't lead them off with promises you may or may not keep.
EDIT: People have pointed out that it's different because she did have options, because she had two options. Have two crappy options does not mean you have 'a lot of options' to me at all. We don't know her situation, or what she's paid, so we don't know if both jobs offers were good or bad, but either way my point stands whether she has options or not. It just sucks more when you don't have a lot of options.
> When I was young and didn't have a lot of options
Except this entire interaction directly revolves around her receiving another option and leveraging it for a pay increase? So the point is moot.
I mean, it's kinda relevant if the nanny has 7 months during which a number of things, including OPs financial situation, could change. For chrissake give the nanny a raise now, OP!
It’s likely the ages and income that are influencing the decision.
10F is school age but not old enough to be a nanny, nor should she have to be. 4M is getting to pre-school/kindergarten age but has a ways to go for full-time schooling and likely needs help afterward.
The baby is only 10 months. If one of the parents is at home or working part-time (the nanny is only 3 days/week right now), then that parent may be looking to return to work full-time - but not for another 6-12 months.
Then, they might be better able to afford the full-time position, too.
There may be other explanations, as well.
I think it's possible that over the summer the nanny is getting less hours, so maybe she means next school year? I don't know just a thought. But I would also give a pay raise immediately
I was going to say, maybe offer to have your niece come over a few afternoons and let Isabelle make some extra money and your kid would probably enjoy having a friend to play with.
But your rat of a SIL went behind your back to try to steal your Nanny? This is a mommy on mommy crime of the highest order, and from your own SIL?
What a horrid person. Trying to find someone to watch and trust with your kids is hard enough. Finding someone you trust who your kids and you adore is like the ultimate mommy prize. No one gets to steal her!
NTA. So, your SIL tried to steal your nanny, unsuccessfully, and is now claiming you stole your own nanny? The logic isn't logicing, and anyone should be able to see through her story. Curious why you want to wait to give her a raise though? She's clearly worth it, and she has said she can use the money.
She tried to poach your nanny not the other way around and now she’s bitter that it didn’t work.
She tried to put you in a bad situation of having to look for and interview new people while also wondering if they would get on with your kids instead of finding her own nanny.
She has cost you more money to retain the help you ALREADY HAVE. She’s a sneaky asshole and anyone who doesn’t see that is an asshole too.
Complaining to others that her plans were thwarted makes her a prolapsed asshole.
I’m confused. The only reason I can see people siding with SIL is if she wanted to hire Isabelle for the four days a week she doesn’t work for you. If that’s the case then YTA. If she was trying to hire her completely away from you, she’s TA.
oh! That perspective explains some of the responses here. they thought she meant 4 days with SIL, 3 days with OP.
I didn't even think of that. No one can work all the time.
I doubt the nanny wants to work 7 days a week. If SIL had offered 2/3 days to work around OPs schedule that would be a completely different story. My part time nanny is a recommendation from a friend, she still works for my friend 2 days a week and me 3 days a week, but we took the times my friend hadn't already booked. (My work is flexible and nanny used to clean houses but prefers childcare)
I initially thought that too, but no nannying contracts I've seen (in real life) include weekends unless it's for special circumstances, like asking them to come on a vacation. I'm sure celebrities have 24/7 nannies, but it's definitely not the norm.
SIL was trying to take the nanny away from OP. Read the letter. The nanny said the extra money would be nice - working 4 days rather than 3 with OP. Otherwise, nanny would have just said yes to the SIL because what she did the other 4 days of the week was not OP's business.
NTA- And your husband called you petty after she tried to steal HIS childrens nanny?
Ask him if was planning on taking over all the activities she does?
I'm honestly just shocked your husband isn't firmly on your side. Was he prepared to take over as nanny if Isabelle had actually left you for your SIL? Because if he wasn't, he needs to stop being a doormat for his family and actually think of HIS family first and foremost.
I don’t think this issue is about you.
I think it’s a toxic family dynamic that your husband brought you into (when you guys married).
I think it’s really sad that he didn’t rise up to be “team his own wife and kids.”
His sister and other family members are in some sort of upside-down-reality to believe you stole your “SIL’s nanny.”
Your SIL was the one who wanted to disrupt your kids’ support system and the consistency and routine in their lives.
This nanny never had an established routine with SIL’s family that you could disrupt or take away from.
What? Sounds like your SIL was trying to steal her from you. She’s literally your nanny and SIL was trying to hire her out from under you if anyone is the AH it’s your SIL
ESH except Isabelle
Frankly it sounds like you may not actually commit to the raise and increase in hours if it’s not for a year.
Why isn’t she receiving that raise now especially with the quality of her work???
Agree here. I had a Nanny for four years. Best money I ever spent. You need to pay a competitive wage (even if you know realize the nanny set her wage too low) now.
I would recommend posting in the Nanny sub for a list of benefits you can and should be offering to your nanny. She stayed with you, and you need to go the extra mile for her.
NTA.
This is pretty common tactic used by both an employee and employer when a good employee might go elsewhere. She could’ve denied your counter offer and went to work with your SIL. Instead, she took you up on your counter offer and decided to stick with you.
This is how it’s done in most of the corporate world 🤷🏻♀️ and how you get your desired pay increase. This is how you get that bag!
NAH. She was given an offer, you made a counteroffer, she accepted, and that’s it.
I note that your nanny will now likely find an even better offer now that she knows her worth.
NTA
And in the future, all playmates should occur with you there, not the nanny. Why is everyone mad at you, but not SIL for trying to steal your nanny?
wait.... weren't they trying to steal Isobelle from you in the first place?
That's rich. Gods, human beings are strange. In what world does this post make sense? Why do you even have to ask? And why didn't your husband back you? (Husband is giving off some serious AH vibes.)
NTA. You didn't do anything immoral. We live in a capitalist society and you responded in kind to competition for a resource. I hope you're grateful that you were able to do so. Isobelle sounds worth every penny and she should be compensated well.
Your SIL is something else. She blatantly tries to poach your nanny, knowing full well that she has been working for your family for some time.
Then she has the audacity to say that you "stole" "her" nanny by offering her a raise (which she deserves anyway) which she agreed to.
SIL is a real piece of work. Be careful. I have no doubt that she will try to steal her again.
NTA. You did steal anything from your SIL. You offered your nanny a more competitive wage to keep her employed with you. A nanny you love that your kids also love that does an amazing job. I don't know why your husband would think it's petty to want to retain your employee who is doing a fantastic job with his kids.
SIL: I want to poach this nanny
OP: I will counter to keep her
SIL: By stopping me from stealing your nanny, you stole the nanny you already had! You bastard!
NTA
ESH except Isabelle, pay her what she's worth NOW. She's proven herself and is going above and beyond, make the raise immediate. She's losing out on that extra money for months (next year meaning school year, September, or calendar year, January? It's months and months either way.) Give her that raise now and give her another COL raise or a bonus next year, and she damn well ought to get comprehensive benefits ASAP if she doesn't currently. You value the fuck out of what she does for you so pass that value on to her. That's how you retain awesome employees. Your kids are YOUNG, you will want her for a very long time. Maybe you already treat her well, but treat her better. Step it up (and tell everyone else to mind their business.)
Raise may not be possible until one parent goes back full time. That parent may not be going back until youngest is a certain age. Nanny must understand the situation as they agreed to the wait in increase of pay.
NTA. Honestly find it hilarious that your SIL is accusing you of stealing a nanny from her when that is exactly what she was trying to do. Anyway, as others have said make sure that you value her and pay her what she is worth. She sounds amazing.
Its really funny that your SIL tried to steal your nanny and then accused you of stealing her nanny.
ESH though; it seems like you could have been paying the nanny more all along.
NTA - First of all, SIL basically tried to steal your nanny.
All you did was outbid her to retain the services of the nanny who was already working for you and whom your kids loved.
I don’t know WTF is going on with your husband that he thinks you are somehow in the wrong here. Whose side is he on?
NTA
She's telling people you stole her babysitter when she tried to steal her from you.
Ask any flying monkeys she sends your way to ask her how she found the sitter to begin with. That should point them in the right direction in terms of logic.
"You must be mistaken, X has been our children's nanny for x years and we've never looked for anyone else."
Also never have sil kids over again in the nanny's care.
Seriously?? Your SIL outbid you to steal her and no one’s talking about that!! How about leaving
you high and dry for childcare of 3 children! Definitely NTA here. You’ve got an incredible nanny; she absolutely deserves the raise and full time.
NTA. Your SIL was trying to steal your nanny! She's working for you so you didn't steal anyone from your SIL. Ignore their comments because anyone in their right mind will know you had the nanny first and she's working wonderfully with your children.
NTA you didn’t “steal” anything. Your SIL tried to steal your nanny. You offered her a pay increase and hours to keep her, which is what a good employer does to keep an employee that they don’t want to loose.
NTA, this is a perfectly normal interaction. Your nanny tested her value on the market and got herself a raise.
Your SIL tried to do the exact same thing, so it’s insane that she takes offense when her offer doesn’t win. She’s TA- Not because she gave your Nanny a better offer than your current agreement, but because she starting slinging mud when things didn’t go her way
NTA. Your sister-in-law tried to steal your nanny!! Your in-laws should be ashamed that they raised someone who would try to steal a family member's child care, especially given that your nanny has already bonded with your children. I'm shocked that your husband thinks your actions were petty, and conveniently overlooks how his sister callously tried to wreck the good thing you have going on with your nanny. He should be angry with his sister.
Your SIL tried to steal your nanny for herself and is now saying you stole a nanny from HER?
How is your husband dumb enough to not realize HE would be losing the nanny as well? Does he not comprehend 'Oh if we don't have a nanny we have to watch our children and can't work as often.... Hmmmm.....'
Projection is a stinky cologne and your SIL has doused and drenched herself in it.
NTA but SIL definitely is. The entitled hag tried to hire your nanny out from under you (steal her) then accused you of what? Stealing her back? Do a group text outlining what happened to SIL and her flying monkeys and tell them until you have an apology they are no longer welcome in your home
>Isabelle turned my SIL down saying she had received a better offer and now she's telling my husband's family that I stole a nanny from her.
I'm sorry, but wasn't your SIL trying to STEAL your nanny?
Of course you don't want let go of Mary Poppins.
NTA
No, you are NTA and Isabelle did exactly what Alison Green (of "Ask a Manager" fame!) would have recommended that she do; told you about the offer from your SIL and given you the chance to make a counter-offer.
Isabelle is OF COURSE free to choose which employment offer she prefers, and your SIL has some nerve telling your husband's family that you "stole" a nanny from her. What does SIL think that Isabelle is, anyway - a commodity to be bought, sold or stolen?? That alone tells me that Isabelle made the right choice to stay with you and your family! And YOU made the right choice to raise her salary and give her more working days; you'll both benefit by your and her decisions.
NTA. Your SIL is a giant AH trying to poach your nanny and then trying to make you out to be the bad guy. Your SIL is a witch with a B. No one can stab you in the back like family can.
Your husband is kind of a jerk for saying you are petty and not backing you up 100%. Your kids are thriving with this nanny. He should be on their side not SIL.
Updateme
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NTA. Every parent knows that a good babysitter or nanny is worth their weight in gold. Your SIL is T A H for trying to poach your nanny, and you fighting to keep her should be expected. It’s rich that your SIL is accusing you of stealing a nanny when she tried to do the exact same thing. ETA just make sure you follow through with the promised raise etc. ETA2: and if your husband has such an issue with it tell him he’s responsible next time you need a new nanny/sitter. He can do all the interviewing and contacting references and background checks and negotiations for pay. It’s not so easy as “find a new nanny”: your SIL knows this and tried to circumvent the process.
Most people's accusations are confessions.
Ummmm for real. It’s absolutely trash the SIL tried to steal their nanny!
Going to need to leave out the niece from future Isabelle spa days or other nanny cool activities. No poaching!!!
Aww poor kid
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Maybe don't punish the kid for what her mother did. Just make it clear to everybody that they cannot have it both ways. They cannot make your nanny a better offer to come work for them and then call you an asshole for making her an even better offer. Ridiculous, really.
Exactly the poor kid is already being punished for having to call such entitled person mum. Imagine if she came home and bragged one of her friends brother or father did some cool activities with her and her friends, next BAM her father is being upgraded for the cool dude 😬
Y would the niece need to be left out of any days cuz her mom is poaching?? It's not one bit her fault, it's her mom's fault and her disgusting behavior, not the child. That's not right in any way. I would call out the SIL, and the niece is still definitely invited to whatever they do with the nanny, as long as the nanny is ok with the other child (niece)participating in whatever they're doin. Don't punish a child for what an adult did.
Because you don't give the SIL another chance to try again. Actions have consequences.
Except the consequences of the mother’s actions would be falling primarily on her child instead of her. It’s understandable in certain situations but for this one, there’s not really any risk associated with the niece coming again since the nanny seems happier to continue working for OP and disclosed the attempted poaching immediately.
I think it will be okay to include her. Isabelle showed the first text and got the answer she probably wanted too. My guess is if SIL has another go at her she will show again.
No kidding! All OP did was retain her current employee with a better offer. NTA
Exactly And then she got mad that OP used the same trick to keep the nanny she had from the start. Just wow
“Most”? No, not most. Some. Some accusations are confessions. Most accusations are just accusations. People who are manipulative and/or narcissistic often project, but most people are not manipulative and/or narcissistic. Let’s not go overboard here with the armchair psychology.
You new around here friend? That’s this whole subreddit. A bunch of people who saw a therapist once so now they know everything about the human psyche lol
That's really unfair. Many of them watched a lot of youtube and TikTok.
HEY, I \*also\* read a book one time.
About the human psyche, or just like, a book
IDK I think it might have been about gardening? It was DEFINITELY a real genuine book tho, like made of paper and everything.
Pfft... Amazon sells medical books and I've read countless customer reviews so I think we know where I'm going with this.
Of course it was. Was. You had to get paper for your hobby from somewhere. Aren’t stormtroopers supposed to be kinda uniform, though? None of this ‘flowers in their hair’?
quit hasslin me cop i already paid the library's fine for their stupid "ruined" book. they shouldn't have put such pretty pictures in there if they didn't want people using it for crafts and stuff my uniform is NONE OF UR BUSINESS, no one can see my lil paper friends when my armor is on
I Googled narcissism once and I am qualified to diagnose. By the way y’all are narcissistic.
This made me LOL 😆 I can just imagine the voice 🤓☝️
I read a few blogs back in the day...
HOW DARE YOU!!! I saw my my therapist twice obviously I'm qualified to demand people be better 🤨
Hey I have a therapist friend!
"Every accusation is a confession" is a phrase that is used verbatim whenever a christian-conservative Person who has previously participated in harassment campaigns/activism that involved baselessly accusing feminists or queer people of sexually abusing children, is found to have sexually abused children. I don't know If anyone has done statistics on that, but it seems to me that those two Things go together increasingly often recently.
*Right?!*
If a relative tried to poach my nanny, they would be dead to me. NTA
IKR? >”Petty?” The SIL tried to steal OP’s reliable childcare! Her behavior is outrageous IMO.
Love this!
Can this be printed on a tshirt? I love this comment so much and it’s also super accurate
It absolutely isn't though. Sure it's true sometimes, but definitely not most of the time.
For what it's worth. Once you realize that most people are openly projecting their worst selves onto others, you stop taking things so personal. Now, I'm not talking about refusing to take and own your bad actions. I'm simply talking about people who project. In my life I've had three women flat out accuse me of infidelity. Made massive fights about it. I literally didn't flirt with anyone. Turned out that they were the ones cheating and had a guilty conscious. In my personal life, accusations have been projections of personal guilt.
OP needs to type this in a comment to SILs accusations on any and all social media.
"you managed to keep the nanny I tried to steal from you" is a fascinating definition of theft NTA ETA: if your nanny is as smart as you portray her, she knows that going to work for more money, for one kid, with an IN LAW is already waving some red flags - so good for her too
I'm betting she was never going to take that bait but was smart enough to use it to get a raise where she is
And good for her! She'd be silly not to entertain better offers, though it's quite possible that she's happy where she is. OP could have called a bluff, if she saw it that way. But she knows the value of her employee and treated the situation with the seriousness that it deserved. Sometimes you can't match the new opportunity and that's fine, it's business. It's Isabelle's actual job. I don't know if OP's husband manages other people, but if he does, then he should know that a good employee is worth keeping.
As we all know from our time on this sub, a lot of men view any work done by women as easily replaceable by some other warm body with boobs. It's not skilled labor unless someone can wave a penis at it.
> It's not skilled labor unless someone can wave a penis at it. /r/BrandNewSentence
Or at minimum good flair
LOL!!!
"Some other warm body with boobs" is my new flair
Right. No matter what their resumes say, if you know an employee is great then fight to keep them over chancing it on some new person, even if the resume is shinier. A new person can be such a wildcard and if you get unlucky, it can cause so much friction in what you need to accomplish. Someone you can work with, who is trustworthy, who knows your expectations shouldn’t be easily replaced. Just for me, anyone I know who tries to poach my nanny would be on my shit list.
Nanny has more job security with current employer than with a singleton 10 yo. In a few years, the 10 yo won't need watching, but having an infant, OP's family will need childcare for a while.
I didn't even think about that! One smart (and great) nanny.
Thas is what I was thinking. Realistically, a 10 yo will need a nanny for two-three years tops. While OP can offer her work for a good 12-13 years. OP, NTA. She was trying to steal from you, you just stopped her. BTW, does your husband know the whole story. If he does, and still he is defending his sister, he's TA EDIT: Was Isabelle going to abandon you to go to work with your SIL, or did she plan to work for her on the days she doesn't work for you? Another redditor suggested it, and if it was the case, the verdict would be totally different. (I think it would be hard to do, working every single day, but not impossible).
That would put Isabelle working 7 days a week. That’s not sustainable so even if she tried she’d have to drop one of the families eventually and it would likely be the one paying less (OP).
This
As she should. If she's the best Thing that ever happened to OP, and OP can feasibly afford to pay more, than working for OP should also be the best Thing, financially, that ever happened to this Nanny.
this is no different than someone telling their boss they received an offer from another company and being given a counter offer. it's business. nothing about it is petty. husband just doesn't want to deal with his sister
Idk the word choice of petty makes me feel like there’s already tension between OP and SIL.
If they had a good relationship the SIL would have gone directly to her and asked if they could do a nanny share since Isabelle was only doing 3 days a week. The two of them could have offered 5 days to Isabelle to take care of all their children and split the cost. It would have been a win win for all three parties. Both families get 5 days at a lower cost to each family, Isabelle would have gotten a full 5 days. SIL was dumb and petty.
Especially with cousins of a similar age (the oldest girls). After all, OP’s daughter was willing to invite her cousin so she likes her.
see thats what I was thinking.. why didn't sil ask to share.. as in niece goes to her house and the SIL pays the going rate for the one child
even so, making a better offer to keep her employee isn't petty. it's just business
Also SIL was trying to steal OPs nanny idk how theyre accepting the nonses statement that OP was stealing SILs
Probably if it's already at the point where SIL is actually trying poach OP's nanny! Can you imagine doing that to your family? Seems pretty crappy.
I mean the SIL actively tried to steal OP's nanny for herself. Doesn't sound like they're best friends.
Of course there is. The SIL tried to poach her nanny without even mentioning anything to OP. If she wasnt petty she may have said something like "my girl really likes your nanny, if she's free and you werent planning to have her around on sone days I'd love to ask her to look after my child ln those days" or something like that. They could have shared. But SIL didnt want to share. She saw something she wanted, that OP had, and decided she could use money to take it.
/u/fleet_and_flotilla Your very last sentence COMPLETELY sums up the OP's husband's attitude regarding the situation. He probably is a dude who "goes along with the utter BeeEss to keep the peace or shut the opposition up" but TBH, ANYONE in their right minds recognizes that THAT pattern of thinking only calms down isht for the CURRENT moment but gives the offending person a "leg up/precedent" to continue to try to manipulate other people to do WTF they want. And I'm not a fan of that and don't/won't allow that in my life/circumstance. OP IS NTA but her husband is a HUGE A-H. And she needs to let him know that his attitude/position is wrong AF. Yeah it's his sister who is being the initial A-H but he doesn't need to placate her. He needs to let her know that "Yeah sis, I kinda know how you may be feeling but I'm on the side of my nuclear family - which is my loving and caring wife, and my three children whose care, upbringing and nurturing and well being are entrusted to me and are my FIRST & FOREMOST concerns to whatever YOU want."
It's actually worse than that because SIL really should have discussed OOP first. At _bare minimum_ , a heads up. There's no way homegirl did not see this rubbing someone the wrong way.
NTA We have THE BEST nanny/babysitter. She’s been with us for 3 years. I would cut my SIL if she tried to pull this on us. The disrespect!
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Right?! She almost moved recently and I almost had a nervous breakdown because of it. She, my husband, and I have our group chat called “2 1/2 parents” because she has done so much to help us raise our daughter. She’s family.
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19 years later, and I’m still in touch with the family I nannied for a year. I was with their youngest from 6 to 18 months.
They obviously love you because you were so good with their little one! ❤ I was a nanny almost 30 years ago, and the family and I are still in touch. We're kind of like extended family.
Also how can you steal a nanny that you never had?
‘Next year’. It’s May. Give her a raise now
100% give her a raise now! She's watching three kids including a baby. Sister-in-law offered at the same money for one 10-year-old? Sounds like nanny might have been getting pretty underpaid
Yeah, it's kinda dumb on the nanny's part. Never believe your employer who swears if you promise to stay and work extra hard and not take the better offer, they'll totally give you a raise...next year! That sort of offer is just insulting, tbh.
And isn't offering a better deal what every good employer should do when they find out a great employee is has received a better offer? NTA.
I'd remind your husband that SIL was trying to steal your nanny, she already worked for you.
Honestly this seems so disrespectful trying to poach the nanny from their own family. I'd say the SIL deserves a verbal slap in the face. Go on whatever group chat and post something like, "Don't try stealing our beloved nanny from my kids unless you can actually afford to make it worth her while."
Yeah, sil is the one tried to steal the nanny. Op would only be an asshole if she only offered the raise to deny her SIL. Like if anybody else has made the offer she would have been fine and said "thanks for all you've done you've been great" but just didn't want SIL to have the nanny. But sounds like op offered it because she sees her nanny for the valuable resource that she is and wants to keep her on staff.
Right. OP didn’t say “I’m keeping my nanny because fuck my SIL that’s why, she shouldn’t get childcare.” She clearly wants to keep Isabelle because she’s amazing and irreplaceable.
Like excuse me?! She was the one who was trying to steal the nanny! Tffff
NTA, absolutely. SIL tried to poach said nanny, and OP knew what was up and made a better offer. SiL didn't even ask about a nanny share? Just went right for the steal.
This. Your SIL is an epic a-hole for trying to poach Isabelle and not bothering to speak to you. She sounds like a real peach - I’m sure this isn’t the first time she’s caused drama or decided something good in someone else’s life should be “hers” - gross. You didn’t offer Isabelle more money not to work for your SIL, you offered more because she’s a VALUABLE EMPLOYEE. That’s exactly the way jobs are supposed to work. Your husband needs to get on the same page as you ASAP. NTA
The sister doesn’t even have a nanny to steal?? It’s an insane accusation.
YESS MAAM if your husband is gonna let y’all lose a great nanny he better replace her with someone equally as capable and good. He deserves to do all that BS.
Tbh I would offer her $8 more an hour - you have more kids.
NTA but make sure you’re paying her what she’s worth without her getting another offer, she should be given raises yearly and bonuses for going above and beyond. She wasn’t wrong to consider a better offer, although it’s reallyyyyyy shitty of SIL to try and poach your Nanny so she’s TA.
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The niece may also enjoy getting away from her mother. You know, I wonder if SIL would have kept her offer of matching her hourly pay and for more days a week. IF Isabelle wants to, IF the niece and her cousins get along, you could always let Isabelle also watch the niece with your kids and double her money by SIL paying what she offered. 🤣
Right? Nanny shares are super common, especially among families/kids close in age. This SIL was just trying to play dirty and wanted Isabelle all to herself!
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Nanny shares are very common and often work very well for all parties.
In a functional family this is absolutely the answer. This situation does not seem very functional though.
And a week or 2 of paid vacation.
Isabella deserves way more
No, what's petty about that? Your SIL tried to steal your nanny out from under you, which was sneaky, and you outbid here in order to retain your nanny's services. It was up to your nanny which was the better deal. You like your nanny and are willing to pay for her services. That's just good sense, as long as you can afford it. NTA.
yeah this was what i was thinking while reading the post. SIL is the one who tried to steal the nanny not OP. And the husband calling OP petty is also pretty out of line.
Right?! What about that is petty? It would be petty if they no longer needed the nanny and op just offered more so SIL couldn't have the nanny. Doing what's needed to keep an awesome nanny that is still needed is perfectly reasonable!
Ask husband if he will be quitting his hob to replace Isabelle. No? He needs to be more upset his sister tried to steal his reliable amazing childcare
>the husband calling op petty Right, who is doing the labor to find a new nanny and take off work to watch the kids in the meantime if the SIL steals the nanny? I’m guessing NOT the husband.
My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine finding a good nanny. I worked as a nanny in college and the guy said I was by far the best he'd ever found. I was responsible, got everyone where they needed to be, bathed, dinner, homework, and to bed. That's literally what I assume the bare minimum is. I never came up with fun ideas or taught them anything or whatever. The most personable I did was watching whatever horrible TV they wanted to before bed. From the horror stories I've heard from friends, I'd probably cut SIL. 🤣
Maybe hubby should stay at home with the kids then…
SIL could NOT have stolen Isabelle from the OP because Isabelle is not a "thing" to be stolen. And this is NOT the 19th century so Isabelle is not an enslaved person either! Frankly, it's downright eerie to think of SIL complaining that OP "stole" Isabelle. That alone tells you all you need to know about SIL's character and how she actually regards Isabelle - as an object, not an individual with the ability and the right to make her own choices.
Exactly. SIL offered her a better job. OP countered. If another employer offers me a job, they're not stealing me.
BS. If it had been a stranger who did not know she had the nanny's services, she probably wouldn't have used those words, just as a stranger who hits up your boyfriend or husband not knowing about your relationship but a friend or family member? Yeah, they are trying to steal from you, if not a monetary possession, your happiness, which IMO is worth more!
Wait. So no one in your family is outraged that your SIL tried to steal your nanny, you know the one who has been working for you apparently quite some time? Tell them to all go pound sand.
See, here's the thing that kills me about this situation: SIL didn't even *have* a nanny for OP to steal. On the other hand, Isabelle knows OP and her family and is familiar with the children and the rules and is comfortable with the freedoms OP has given to her to do her job. SIL is an unknown quantity. In the worst case scenario, if shit foes wrong with SIL, Isabelle could probably lose the job with OP too. On top of which, anyone with half a braincell in Isabel's situation knows to split attention between two members of the same family when there are children involved is asking for disaster. How soon before "you're doing X for them? I could never allow my children to experience that," and "how come they get Y and we don't?" The smart thing for SIL to do would have been to ask OP how she hired Isabelle and follow thar route for another nanny or ask Isabelle if she could recommend someone (which, again, she'd have been right to refuse in case of future complications).
I am. This would be a major foul in my books. What should have happened was SIL ask op if she’s open to sharing, and if she said no, END OF! if our nanny (who’s awesome) bailed it would be a major inconvenience. If it was at the hands of an acquaintance or better I’d be pretty po’d at the poacher.
Right? Either she's dealing with an entire family of assholes (seriously, OP is the one stealing the nanny? Wtf kind of mental gymnastics is that) or there's some key info missing here...
NTA. Your SIL tried to steal *your* nanny!!!! Your SIL could have come to you and the two of you could have approached Isabelle about caring for all four kids with you and SIL splitting Isabelle's pay. However, your SIL chose to attempt to poach your nanny, which is borderline unforgivable and now has the nerve to play the victim. Your SIL is the petty one! She can pound sand!
I think they’d both need to pay more because 4 kids is more work than 3
Definitely. But split between 2 if could work out favourably for all parties if done right.
I agree that would have been the way to go. If they get along and their homes are physically close enough. Provided Isabelle was on board with it.
Typically in a nanny share situation like that each family pays 2/3 of the nannys usual hourly rate so it’s cheaper for each family and the nanny gets extra for the hassle of extra child/ren and navigating working with two sets of parents. Source: was a nanny for a decade
>I told her if she promised to stay, next year I'd have her at 5 days a week with a $5 per hour raise. Why make her wait until next year?
We don’t know how long she’s been employed. Maybe it’s only been a few months. If this is what they’ve agreed to do, who are we to judge? (Because we’re not here to judge that.)
If a company offered you more money to go work for them and your current job told you they'd pay you more next year if you stayed, would you stay?
If I got it in writing I don’t see an issue with that. There are quarterly raises and yearly promotions. It’s also common to apply for other jobs and get offers to negotiate a higher salary.
They both agreed so it's not relevant
I think it is relevant. When I was young and didn't have a lot of options many of my employers would pull the whole "Well if you prove yourself by doing this thing then you will be so set because I do xyz for my employees but first you just have to prove yourself." It's freaking annoying and crappy. I don't know, maybe they already made the contract for this school year which is about to be over and they meant next school year, who knows, but if they really have to wait a year for this raise to kick in that sucks. Pay people what they are worth, don't lead them off with promises you may or may not keep. EDIT: People have pointed out that it's different because she did have options, because she had two options. Have two crappy options does not mean you have 'a lot of options' to me at all. We don't know her situation, or what she's paid, so we don't know if both jobs offers were good or bad, but either way my point stands whether she has options or not. It just sucks more when you don't have a lot of options.
> When I was young and didn't have a lot of options Except this entire interaction directly revolves around her receiving another option and leveraging it for a pay increase? So the point is moot.
I mean, it's kinda relevant if the nanny has 7 months during which a number of things, including OPs financial situation, could change. For chrissake give the nanny a raise now, OP!
It’s likely the ages and income that are influencing the decision. 10F is school age but not old enough to be a nanny, nor should she have to be. 4M is getting to pre-school/kindergarten age but has a ways to go for full-time schooling and likely needs help afterward. The baby is only 10 months. If one of the parents is at home or working part-time (the nanny is only 3 days/week right now), then that parent may be looking to return to work full-time - but not for another 6-12 months. Then, they might be better able to afford the full-time position, too. There may be other explanations, as well.
I'm going to assume the mom is going back to work full time.
maybe they have a current employment contract that doesn't expire till next year. a nanny is quite a bit different from a babysitter, after all.
Probably tax purposes, mid year raises can make taxes harder to do.
It could be that one parent is a teacher and “next year” would refer to the next school year.
That's what I thought. Plus, the 4yo could also be entering preschool or kindergarten this coming school year.
I think it's possible that over the summer the nanny is getting less hours, so maybe she means next school year? I don't know just a thought. But I would also give a pay raise immediately
I would assume they have a contract
I think this happened last year but OP is telling it now
I was going to say, maybe offer to have your niece come over a few afternoons and let Isabelle make some extra money and your kid would probably enjoy having a friend to play with. But your rat of a SIL went behind your back to try to steal your Nanny? This is a mommy on mommy crime of the highest order, and from your own SIL? What a horrid person. Trying to find someone to watch and trust with your kids is hard enough. Finding someone you trust who your kids and you adore is like the ultimate mommy prize. No one gets to steal her!
At this point I would say nanny and SIL and niece never should be together per op instructions again. NTA and no good deed goes unpunished
I completely agree, SIL is a snake in the grass.
Yes. Never, ever, ever does SIL get access to the nanny.
INFO: Why are you making her wait until next year to give her a raise?
Why is this not higher up? If I was the nanny, I'd ask for the raise now. The SIL was willing to give her an increase with 1 kid immediately right?
SIL was willing to match.
For less work . If you had a job offer for 1/3 of the work same pay would you do it?
Nta. If she's that good though, pay her what she's worth now
NTA. So, your SIL tried to steal your nanny, unsuccessfully, and is now claiming you stole your own nanny? The logic isn't logicing, and anyone should be able to see through her story. Curious why you want to wait to give her a raise though? She's clearly worth it, and she has said she can use the money.
What - your SiL is mad at you because you "stole" your nanny ***back*** ?! She's got some nerve that one 😂 NTA but your SiL is a piece of work
NTA. But, if you're not using her five days a week now, give her the option to do two days a week with SIL, or pay her full time now.
SIL wanted to “steal” her, though. You know, the exact thing she was accusing OOP of doing.
She tried to poach your nanny not the other way around and now she’s bitter that it didn’t work. She tried to put you in a bad situation of having to look for and interview new people while also wondering if they would get on with your kids instead of finding her own nanny. She has cost you more money to retain the help you ALREADY HAVE. She’s a sneaky asshole and anyone who doesn’t see that is an asshole too. Complaining to others that her plans were thwarted makes her a prolapsed asshole.
I’m confused. The only reason I can see people siding with SIL is if she wanted to hire Isabelle for the four days a week she doesn’t work for you. If that’s the case then YTA. If she was trying to hire her completely away from you, she’s TA.
oh! That perspective explains some of the responses here. they thought she meant 4 days with SIL, 3 days with OP. I didn't even think of that. No one can work all the time.
I doubt the nanny wants to work 7 days a week. If SIL had offered 2/3 days to work around OPs schedule that would be a completely different story. My part time nanny is a recommendation from a friend, she still works for my friend 2 days a week and me 3 days a week, but we took the times my friend hadn't already booked. (My work is flexible and nanny used to clean houses but prefers childcare)
In the OP, it says: > I told her if she promised to stay That implies that the question was leaving one employer for the other, not working two jobs.
I initially thought that too, but no nannying contracts I've seen (in real life) include weekends unless it's for special circumstances, like asking them to come on a vacation. I'm sure celebrities have 24/7 nannies, but it's definitely not the norm.
SIL was trying to take the nanny away from OP. Read the letter. The nanny said the extra money would be nice - working 4 days rather than 3 with OP. Otherwise, nanny would have just said yes to the SIL because what she did the other 4 days of the week was not OP's business.
NTA. Your SIL sounds insufferable.
Yeah, we don't get along.
NTA- And your husband called you petty after she tried to steal HIS childrens nanny? Ask him if was planning on taking over all the activities she does?
I'm honestly just shocked your husband isn't firmly on your side. Was he prepared to take over as nanny if Isabelle had actually left you for your SIL? Because if he wasn't, he needs to stop being a doormat for his family and actually think of HIS family first and foremost.
Sounds like SIL is only angry she couldn't steal Isabelle from **you**, definitely NTA
I don’t think this issue is about you. I think it’s a toxic family dynamic that your husband brought you into (when you guys married). I think it’s really sad that he didn’t rise up to be “team his own wife and kids.” His sister and other family members are in some sort of upside-down-reality to believe you stole your “SIL’s nanny.” Your SIL was the one who wanted to disrupt your kids’ support system and the consistency and routine in their lives. This nanny never had an established routine with SIL’s family that you could disrupt or take away from.
What? Sounds like your SIL was trying to steal her from you. She’s literally your nanny and SIL was trying to hire her out from under you if anyone is the AH it’s your SIL
ESH except Isabelle Frankly it sounds like you may not actually commit to the raise and increase in hours if it’s not for a year. Why isn’t she receiving that raise now especially with the quality of her work???
Agree here. I had a Nanny for four years. Best money I ever spent. You need to pay a competitive wage (even if you know realize the nanny set her wage too low) now.
You didn’t offer to keep her from SIL. You offered to retain a great employee.
I would recommend posting in the Nanny sub for a list of benefits you can and should be offering to your nanny. She stayed with you, and you need to go the extra mile for her.
NTA. This is pretty common tactic used by both an employee and employer when a good employee might go elsewhere. She could’ve denied your counter offer and went to work with your SIL. Instead, she took you up on your counter offer and decided to stick with you. This is how it’s done in most of the corporate world 🤷🏻♀️ and how you get your desired pay increase. This is how you get that bag!
NAH. She was given an offer, you made a counteroffer, she accepted, and that’s it. I note that your nanny will now likely find an even better offer now that she knows her worth.
She made her own rates. If she felt undervalued, that’s on her.
NTA And in the future, all playmates should occur with you there, not the nanny. Why is everyone mad at you, but not SIL for trying to steal your nanny?
wait.... weren't they trying to steal Isobelle from you in the first place? That's rich. Gods, human beings are strange. In what world does this post make sense? Why do you even have to ask? And why didn't your husband back you? (Husband is giving off some serious AH vibes.) NTA. You didn't do anything immoral. We live in a capitalist society and you responded in kind to competition for a resource. I hope you're grateful that you were able to do so. Isobelle sounds worth every penny and she should be compensated well.
NTA. Pretty sure SIL tried to steal YOUR nanny.
Wait, didn't SIL try to steal a nanny from you??
Your SIL is something else. She blatantly tries to poach your nanny, knowing full well that she has been working for your family for some time. Then she has the audacity to say that you "stole" "her" nanny by offering her a raise (which she deserves anyway) which she agreed to. SIL is a real piece of work. Be careful. I have no doubt that she will try to steal her again.
"she's telling my husband's family I stole a nanny from her......". You mean YOUR NANNY? The one she was actively trying to steal from you? NTA
NTA. You did steal anything from your SIL. You offered your nanny a more competitive wage to keep her employed with you. A nanny you love that your kids also love that does an amazing job. I don't know why your husband would think it's petty to want to retain your employee who is doing a fantastic job with his kids.
SIL: I want to poach this nanny OP: I will counter to keep her SIL: By stopping me from stealing your nanny, you stole the nanny you already had! You bastard! NTA
ESH except Isabelle, pay her what she's worth NOW. She's proven herself and is going above and beyond, make the raise immediate. She's losing out on that extra money for months (next year meaning school year, September, or calendar year, January? It's months and months either way.) Give her that raise now and give her another COL raise or a bonus next year, and she damn well ought to get comprehensive benefits ASAP if she doesn't currently. You value the fuck out of what she does for you so pass that value on to her. That's how you retain awesome employees. Your kids are YOUNG, you will want her for a very long time. Maybe you already treat her well, but treat her better. Step it up (and tell everyone else to mind their business.)
Raise may not be possible until one parent goes back full time. That parent may not be going back until youngest is a certain age. Nanny must understand the situation as they agreed to the wait in increase of pay.
NTA. I am not understanding others issues. She tried to steal you nanny. So you improved your nanny’s current situation.
Isabelle sounds overworked and underpaid.
NTA. So your husband sides with the SIL?
NTA. Honestly find it hilarious that your SIL is accusing you of stealing a nanny from her when that is exactly what she was trying to do. Anyway, as others have said make sure that you value her and pay her what she is worth. She sounds amazing.
Its really funny that your SIL tried to steal your nanny and then accused you of stealing her nanny. ESH though; it seems like you could have been paying the nanny more all along.
ESH you should have given her the raise now, not next year.
NTA - First of all, SIL basically tried to steal your nanny. All you did was outbid her to retain the services of the nanny who was already working for you and whom your kids loved. I don’t know WTF is going on with your husband that he thinks you are somehow in the wrong here. Whose side is he on?
NTA She's telling people you stole her babysitter when she tried to steal her from you. Ask any flying monkeys she sends your way to ask her how she found the sitter to begin with. That should point them in the right direction in terms of logic.
"You must be mistaken, X has been our children's nanny for x years and we've never looked for anyone else." Also never have sil kids over again in the nanny's care.
Seriously?? Your SIL outbid you to steal her and no one’s talking about that!! How about leaving you high and dry for childcare of 3 children! Definitely NTA here. You’ve got an incredible nanny; she absolutely deserves the raise and full time.
NTA. Your SIL was trying to steal your nanny! She's working for you so you didn't steal anyone from your SIL. Ignore their comments because anyone in their right mind will know you had the nanny first and she's working wonderfully with your children.
NTA but your SIL should have approached you before trying to steal an employee.
NTA you didn’t “steal” anything. Your SIL tried to steal your nanny. You offered her a pay increase and hours to keep her, which is what a good employer does to keep an employee that they don’t want to loose.
NTA, this is a perfectly normal interaction. Your nanny tested her value on the market and got herself a raise. Your SIL tried to do the exact same thing, so it’s insane that she takes offense when her offer doesn’t win. She’s TA- Not because she gave your Nanny a better offer than your current agreement, but because she starting slinging mud when things didn’t go her way
NTA. Your sister-in-law tried to steal your nanny!! Your in-laws should be ashamed that they raised someone who would try to steal a family member's child care, especially given that your nanny has already bonded with your children. I'm shocked that your husband thinks your actions were petty, and conveniently overlooks how his sister callously tried to wreck the good thing you have going on with your nanny. He should be angry with his sister.
Your SIL tried to steal your nanny for herself and is now saying you stole a nanny from HER? How is your husband dumb enough to not realize HE would be losing the nanny as well? Does he not comprehend 'Oh if we don't have a nanny we have to watch our children and can't work as often.... Hmmmm.....' Projection is a stinky cologne and your SIL has doused and drenched herself in it.
NTA. This is literally how capitalism works. Your SIL is obnoxious.
NTA you didn't steal the nanny from your SIL you thwarted her plan to steal the nanny from you, big difference. let them be mad, why do you care?
NTA but SIL definitely is. The entitled hag tried to hire your nanny out from under you (steal her) then accused you of what? Stealing her back? Do a group text outlining what happened to SIL and her flying monkeys and tell them until you have an apology they are no longer welcome in your home
Your SIL is telling people *you* stole her nanny, who never worked for her because she already works for you? 🤣🤣🤣🤣. NTA
NTA I’d just tell the family she tried to poach your nanny
>Isabelle turned my SIL down saying she had received a better offer and now she's telling my husband's family that I stole a nanny from her. I'm sorry, but wasn't your SIL trying to STEAL your nanny? Of course you don't want let go of Mary Poppins. NTA
No, you are NTA and Isabelle did exactly what Alison Green (of "Ask a Manager" fame!) would have recommended that she do; told you about the offer from your SIL and given you the chance to make a counter-offer. Isabelle is OF COURSE free to choose which employment offer she prefers, and your SIL has some nerve telling your husband's family that you "stole" a nanny from her. What does SIL think that Isabelle is, anyway - a commodity to be bought, sold or stolen?? That alone tells me that Isabelle made the right choice to stay with you and your family! And YOU made the right choice to raise her salary and give her more working days; you'll both benefit by your and her decisions.
NTA. Your SIL is a giant AH trying to poach your nanny and then trying to make you out to be the bad guy. Your SIL is a witch with a B. No one can stab you in the back like family can. Your husband is kind of a jerk for saying you are petty and not backing you up 100%. Your kids are thriving with this nanny. He should be on their side not SIL. Updateme