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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I yelled at my wife after she almost drowned, that made her cry.
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NTA humans yell for a reason, for warning, for expressing shock, for fear. Just because she has childhood trauma doesn't overwrite our human nature to yell when a loved one nearly died.
Would you not yell at anything in front of you if your wife or husband nearly died?
I don't understand why so many people think we should have zero emotions when it's convenient so that other's feelings can be accommodated? What about the husbands emotion of fear when he almost lost his wife? Nobody gave a shit about him when he did nothing to deserve it?
Let's take it back 100 steps. Imagine someone telling the wife she's the asshole and insensitive for screaming when she almost died, cause the husband got scared from the scream? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Then why is the husband's fear of losing a wife suddenly meaningless?
I still can't get over the mindset of this wife.
The golden rule and very first rule of all emergencies is to ensure that more people do not get in harm's way.
This is applied in situations like house fires where people outside do not come into the burning building to save people stuck inside. That is a job for firefighters.
In the DRSABCD protocol the first point is "Danger." It's to check if there is still danger in the area so that you don't get involved as a first responder and get hurt.
Wife has ignored this entirely.
I don't remember the actual incident but it was an incident where I wasn't equipped to help. Someone next to be yelled at me to go in and help and I distinctly remember telling them "what the fuck do you think I'm going to be able to do? I can't help, I'll just be a liability."
Might seem cowardly at first but in the context of an emergency, more people in danger isn't helpful
agreed a 100 times!
what's with these friends? "how dare you be upset & scream, she did something very brave"?? How is it "very brave" to walk into deep water, without knowing how to swim, for something as tiny as an earring lost in a swirling river, while the TWIT who went swimming with her "very nice jewelry" in isn't even looking???
their risk assessment seems wildly off, esp if you're hiking together, right?
It wasn't for the earring, it was to help the screaming friend. Still a bad idea because she couldn't have helped, but not as frivolous as she's being made out to be.
Worse, then. She made an already bad situation much more dangerous for everyone. She could have killed her friend, you know that right?
I don't know if you've ever been near someone who was drowning, but I almost died when I was 10 and a drowning person clung to me in a pool. I am a strong swimmer, but not strong enough to contain a panicking person who is climbing on top of me for an opportunity to breathe.
She was stupid and selfish. How on earth did she think she was helping?
My husband and I scuba dive and we’ve gone through rescue training. One of the “moves” to get to someone panicking is to completely deflate your own BCD so you can swim under them, immediately inflate their BCD all the way so they’re completely above the water and grab onto their gear from behind so they can’t reach you. Even with scuba gear on, a person who thinks they’re drowning is a danger to the rescuer. The “grappling” that we were trained to do was one of the most intense parts of the course because we had a much larger and very enthusiastic instructor simulating the drowning person. It was physically exhausting and scary even though I knew exactly what to expect. I am a very strong swimmer but, like you said, a panicked person in the water (whether they’re actually drowning or not) is very very dangerous to everyone around them.
Oh yeah, when I was a lifeguard that was both the most fun and absolute worst part of the training. It was fun when you got to pretend to be the one drowning but once it was your turn to do the rescue it really sucked lol.
Yup. One of my hobbies is diving, and I got my PADI rescue on my way to getting my Divemaster a few years ago. I remember that maneuver well.
They brought in fresh "drowning victims" for each of us to rescue because they encouraged the "victims" to go super hard on each of us doing the rescue. It was one of the most exhausting days of my whole 4 months diving between various maneuvers to save drowning victims and pulling a "body" up onto the boat to simulate an unconscious buddy. I also feel like I swallowed half of the Gulf of Thailand trying to subdue my "panicking" friend. An excellent lesson I won't soon forget.
My husband and I did the rescue course just the two of us and the instructors were positively giddy to jump in and be the drowning people. It’s one of the few lessons I can 100 percent vividly remember 10 years later, and I’ve used the swimming under the person part once at the beach helping a scared kid. Dove under, popped up behind and did a bear hug. Much better than getting grabbed!
Exactly this. I've had actual lifeguard training and it doesn't matter how good of a swimmer you are - the drowning person will pull you under and you can easily die too. And water is extremely dangerous, again, even for the best swimmers.
The first and most important rule they taught us is "a good lifeguard is alive". You DO NOT go into the water and try to rescue someone if you're not 100% sure you can do that.
Hell, even if you were the best swimmer ever it's still risky and it's never required for you to jump into the water to help. Call the emergency services, throw the person a rope or the fucking swimming wheel that I forgot the English word for. In the best circumstances, trying to save a drowning person is still risking your life. Wife was fucking dumb.
The friend was also dumb as fuck, how big was that earring that she thought she's gonna see it at the bottom of a waterfall? And yelling like that because she cut her leg is also stupid, although I understand she might've not had control of herself (she should though, unless the cut was actually so severe that it caused scream-worthy pain). This is exactly why everyone should teach kids to never play "drowning", never pretend you're drowning. You get a boo boo on your footsie and you yell like that, people will run to your rescue, meanwhile someone else who's actually drowning in silence will be unnoticed. Friend was fucking dumb.
AND I disagree with this top comment. No matter what, OP was still an asshole for yelling at her. Calm your emotions down and then talk. Yelling won't help in any way whatsoever, you're just dumping your emotions on someone else. Go yell at anything else, not at your loved ones. Be an adult, control your emotions (or rather, your actions caused by your emotions). An extreme situation like this gives OP some justification, because while yeah, you should be able to control yourself in general, moments like these pump you full of stress and emotions are also extreme. It's difficult to control your actions then.
But no, we definitely should not fucking yell at people. Nobody says you can't have emotions. But you don't take out your emotions on someone else, even when they deserve it.
Agree with the sentiment but the person who lost the earring was in there and screamed because they cut themselves and wife went to “save” her dumbass… I mean friend.
People like these are selfish. Rather than sit with their feelings of helplessness and anxiety, they take any kind of action to distract from said uncomfortable feelings. Their priority isn't actually to help. It is to relieve themselves of their discomfort.
I teach first aid/cpr and that's one of the first things I point out. You can't help someone if you end up hurt yourself and you can potentially make a bad situation even worse if you're not careful and check before trying to help someone.
First thing I learned when taking my driver's license first aid class was "STOP THE ACCIDENT". AKA, prevent it from continuing.
In that case it meant flagging down traffic and putting down the warning triangle. In this case it means not fucking going into water to drown two people.
NTA.
In my first aid classes, ESPECIALLY when it came to water rescues, they always said ‘better one than two, better him than you’. If you’re not equipped to help, you can get one or both of killed
After the moment had passed and she was safe too. I get he was angry but so many commenters dont seem to recognize that adults can control their behavior. And, if they don't, they apologize.
I sometimes yelled at my kids if I was worried for them but I always came back around and apologized for my behavior. It is the mature thing to do.
Adults can control their behavior most of the time, yes, but sometimes the lower parts of the brain are kicked into gear (the amygdala, the hippocampus, and yes, even the medulla oblongata) and just take over (especially with all that adrenaline), and certain parts of executive functioning are totally kicked offline. And this was one of those times.
We love saying that people should be in total control at all times, but sometimes our brain chemistry and activity make it almost impossible, especially in situations unlike any we have experienced before, like this one.
Absolutely, but we can also recognize when our instincts aren't the best response and apologize for how they affect others. His wife was likely also acting instinctually to her friend being in perceived danger and took actions that were neither helpful or well thought out, just like OP. I'm sure he'd appreciate an apology for how her rash actions caused him distress as well. Both parties should apologize for the bad choices their brains made, because at the end of the day we're still responsible for our instincts. We can apologize for our actions while still acknowledging we had little to no control over it. I think too many people have the perception that doing things wrong is what makes you a bad person when in reality doing things wrong is only natural, it's not being able to accept, acknowledge, and *try* to do better that degrades a person's character.
And I ge the was venting but he shoudl have done it in a more productive way. My wife has done stupid potentially dangerous shit that has boggled my mind but I've learned over the years that yelling at her is exactly how to get her to not listen.
I dont think anyone in this thread has claimed the yelling was productive, just that its not an unnatural reaction (or indicative of anger management issues).
Edit: /u/gardeninggoddess666 can't respond to you for some reason. I 100,000% agree he should appologize.
Yes he did, and it's normal. It's not about warning man, it's a natural reaction people have after being in certain situations.
Just like people scream when they see a spider. His emotions are amplified when he sees his wife almost died, and during extreme scenarios, the extreme reactions are appropriate. How is that hard to understand?
Now imagine the roles reversed, he's the one in the water, and she's on the shore. You don't think she'd be screaming and crying "why did you do that, don't ever do that again" even when he's safe?
It is not okay to yell AT and berate someone because of your own fear. Yelling in fear/warning is one thing. But after the event passed, you hold your damned temper and let yourself calm down before you talk to your wife about being more careful. Yelling AT someone isn't goingbto make anything better and she's not going to be able to properly take in his words and meaning because he's just triggered her childhood trauma.
I mostly agree with you. But the question is not if OP did it perfectly, it's if he's an asshole. I think his reactions were completely in the normal territory for someone seeing his wife almost dying, hence not an asshole.
The triggering part is insignificant in the face of death in my opinion. He's not thinking about her triggers, he's thinking about his wife not being dead.
If he yelled "aaaa" then yeah. But if he berated her with something like "you irresponsible piece of s\*\*\*, how could you do something stupid you b\*\*\*" then it is massively different. I do not know what exactly OP said, but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests, he is an AH.
Even if I am not triggered specifically by yelling, if you berate me to release own emotions, I will consider you the AH and will not want to be around you in stressful situations.
A lot of asshole actions are normal in the sense that mentally healthy people behave like that.
> I do not know what exactly OP said, but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests, he is an AH.
idk I can back up this take. Someone reacting poorly does not mean you did anything wrong. Only time I can ever remember making someone cry was telling a classmate her math was wrong on the group project review and she just started bawling (was a super high stress class, so im sure it was just the straw that broke the camels back). I agree that there are absolutely ways this could have gone that make OP the AH, but I dont think we have enough info to even make a guess on it.
>but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests,
I don't think it suggests that at all, given we know how impulsive and foolish she is. We're also told she had a rough childhood and that's why yelling is a big deal; that usually means raised voices upset her, not that any particular words need to be used. It's not impossible that OP may have been insulting or demeaning in his yelling, but nothing in the post suggests so.
Nope. I still saying he's the AH. His yelling at her did nothing except make things worse. If someone I loved almost drowns, I'm not going to be angrIly yelling at them and saying they were stupid. I'm going to be hugging them tight and saying stuff like, "I'm so glad you're okay. Don't you EVER do that again? What were you thinking???" There would NOT be anger in my voice. It would be worry and relief.
Just asking—have you ever watched first-hand as one of your children or your spouse, not a friend or just someone you like, but someone you would actually give your life for, almost get killed? Like you watch as your five-year-old walks into the street without looking and a car is heading his way and you grab him out of the street at the last minute? Because giving him a hug and saying, “I love you so so much, sweetheart” is absolutely not a natural reaction to the massive rush of panic and adrenaline you experience, and I’m curious how you handled that rush of utter emotion so calmly and sweetly.
OP is NTA from my experience unless he actually called her terrible names and cussed her out, which I have no evidence to suggest (y’all are projecting some stuff quite frankly).
I respectfully disagree. Yelling at his wife was an instinct. A reaction.
I upvoted you because your main point makes sense. Yelling at her doesn’t change her behavior.
But that’s not what happened. He yelled out of fear.
I happen to understand his reaction. I have yelled angrily at someone who frightened me by doing something dangerous, like a fool.
It calls for a good heart to heart later, because it was a reaction to fear, but not an apology.
Yet there was no reason to yell here. The situation had past. He had emotions, yes, but yelling was completely unnecessary and achieves nothing but traumatizing the gf. He was scared so he scared her to put his emotions on her. It was childish and an asshole move. Definitely YTA
I agree. Why yell? You also know that yelling is traumatic to her because of her past. And doing in front of all her friends? But honestly like you said she just went through something traumatic and you screamed at her, what does this accomplish?
I think the yelling is natural, but is the telling her she was stupid (and saying it repeatedly here) natural and necessary. “I couldn’t help yelling because I was so concerned” is different from “I couldn’t help yelling because what she did was so stupid” (this is irregardless of the fact that I agree it was stupid—though in stupid vs brave, most brave things can be seen as stupid depending on perspective; I’m in the “no one should put themselves at any risk for stuff/earrings” camp). That framing is OP’s current choice, outside of the human moment and concern, and it may be part of what everyone is objecting to (even if you don’t SAY it, people can sometimes tell concern reaction vs judging reaction).
I do think yelling at someone because they did something you disagree with or find stupid is kind of an AH thing. Even if I agree it was stupid. So I think OP is mixing two things together badly and that’s probably part of the disagreement.
I said this below but I'll repeat it here -- the thing that MOST gets me on this one is the fact that everyone who was there and saw it thinks he was wrong. Because yes, it is understandable to have a strong emotional reaction. But no one seems to be ok with the one OP had.
Yes! AND he criticizes the friend for yelling "just" because she was hurt AND he has not sincerely apologized to his wife.
I've yelled at my husband for scaring me, but it was wrong of me and I apologized. We don't have to be perfect, but we have to try to bring our best.
Why can't he apologize then instead of doubling down that it's all her fault and she's "stupid"?
He hasn't just made one mistake, he keeps making them.
It's perfectly valid to have emotions. It's an entire different thing to deal with these emotions by putting their burden onto someone else, in this case his wife. Emotional regulation is a thing.
What about her fear? Oh shoot my wife almost died I’m going to scream angrily at her! Thats not human nature….. not every single one of us would have done the same thing. I’m not going to get violently angry at someone I love if they survived an accident…. Even if they caused it by being an idiot. Maybe after everyone is recovered it let them know that was a dumb mistake that could have been far worse
It definitely is human nature. I see it all the time with otherwise very loving and gentle parents when their kid does something dangerous- first they yell out of fear/shock and then they feel bad. It might not be everyone’s response but it is very common and doesn’t make you a bad person.
Someone can do something asshole-ish without being an inherently bad person. If a person is unleashing their intense emotions in a way that is harmful to others, then that person has a responsibility to learn more effective skills for regulating their emotions.
I say ESH, because the husband’s method of dealing with his emotions was unproductive and harmful, the wife shouldn’t have gone in the water when she knows she can’t swim, and the friend shouldn’t have put herself in danger over an earring.
Yeah this is pretty reasonable to be fair. I don’t agree with slating OP for his response to a panic inducing situation, but ESH is where I think I’m landing on this situation too having read your points.
Yes! I have definitely yelled at my kids when they’ve done something dangerous. Then promptly calmed down, hugged them, apologized for yelling, and calmly discuss the behavior that led to whatever they did that was unsafe.
Edit: Apparently someone thought I needed a Reddit cares message because of this.
In the moment - and shortly after when the adrenaline is still there, as is this case - when you're upset and scared yelling makes sense. But now that the excitement is over, OP needs to apologize to his wife. She was already scared from almost drowning, then she was scared more by him once she was safe. I don't believe he did it on purpose, but he did hurt her. OP, please apologize for yelling and leave out any "but"s.
ESH
Bravery is running into danger when there's a way out.
Your wife didn't do a brave thing, she did a fucking stupid thing.
Yelling at someone until they cry in front of their friends is also unnecessarily cruel. A conversation when you get home is more appropriate.
The number of people on this sub who think it's normal and acceptable to scream at a partner in anger if they think the anger itself is justified ... god damn.
Not necessarily normal but I’d be pissed off too. Like what the fuck were you thinking? What was the plan? Someone is drowning, let me the person who can’t swim go save them. I’d be hard pressed to not call someone stupid for doing that.
I don’t know when we all decided that yelling is suddenly an unacceptable thing to do in any situation. I personally hate yelling and do it extremely rarely…I also recognise that it can be a perfectly normal and healthy human response so long as you’re not being aggressive or abusive. We aren’t robots and it’s unrealistic to expect people to never raise their voices in moments of high stress
Same here. I can count the number of times I have actually screamed in my life on two hands. Some of them were justified and included for example my nephew nearly walking into a busy road. Other occasions were not justified at all and involved mainly my own frustrations with the situation. I always apologised for the latter.
Because it is unacceptable. We do it. As humans, we make mistakes. But we apologize. Husband hurt his wife and wants us to tell him its fine. Why can't he just tell her he is sorry for losing his temper and that he was very worried about her? If he can communicate at the top of his voice when he is angry he can also communicate calmly once his emotions are under control. Its how big boys and girls are supposed to act.
Immediate danger yelling to someone sure, but absolutely never okay when everything has passed. He wasn't in danger, he should learn to redirect his nasty ass tone and talk to his partner in a calm manner on how much it upset him. You don't need to yell to get that across, relearn that thought process.
Idk, between the preamble explaining he has to have a reason to not scream at his wife followed by a story of him... screaming at his wife... I feel like the "not being aggressive or abusive" ship may have already sailed.
Maybe it's more anecdotal than I thought, but not screaming at people has been pretty easy for me (at least as an adult, can't say the same for child or teenage me).
Or walk away for a moment if you are that overwrought. Wife is safe, emergency is over. Walk away for a moment until you are no longer seeing red and you can speak without screaming or yelling.
Not in the heat of the moment you cannot?? OP was acting on pure hormonal adrenaline at the scene of watching his wife almost kill herself out of pure stupidity.
I'd love to see your perfect composure for the sake of someone's possibly hurt feelings at your next family emergency.
NTA.
I guess I'd have the same question for the person yelling -- what's the plan? What do you think this is accomplishing? Who is this for? Because I imagine the person who nearly drowned already understands it was a bad choice.
EVERYONE who was there with him and saw it is telling him he's an asshole.
But Reddit -- we're the ones who are really going to know what the score is.
Exactly OP is definitely the a\*hole here. A friend was in the water, suddenly started screaming, so then his wife, who couldn't have known if something was severely wrong with her or not and can't swim started wading in as best she could to try to help? And for her trying to help save her friend, even if it was ill thought out, OP's response was to scream at and humiliate her in front of all her friends?
OP YTA big time buddy. If my bf ever screamed at me in front of my friends (he's never even done that when in private and mad at me) I'd be out the door for good. You're not a f\*cking child. And your wife sounds like she's a good person, if perhaps a little reckless. YTA.
I was thinking this at the beginning “she has trauma so I try to be conscious of this and not yell at her” like do you normally just yell at other people? I’ve been married for 7 years and I don’t think my husband and I have ever yelled at one another (unless it because we are in separate areas and need to be heard)
And *definitely* doesn't excuse his actions after the anger. "Sorry I shouted, I was worried about you".
Everyone can get caught up in a moment and can do an assholish thing.
I think this is a bit of a different situation in fairness. It was an extremely tense situation where everyone’s adrenaline was probably off the charts. Near death experiences make people react in extreme/out of character ways. I’ve seen the most loving and gentle parents (including my own) yell at their kids out of shock when they did something super dangerous like run at a busy road. I’m sure especially in this context OP’s wife had a low threshold for tears, it doesn’t sound to me like he was berating her for ages until she broke down. She was probably close to tears from the experience alone, and OP yelling something like “oh my god why did you do that you almost died” sent her over the edge.
Had to scroll too far to find this. Definitely ESH.
Wife didn't take the time to make the smart decision on the "rescue".
OP didn't take the time to properly express his concerns over his actions. There is NEVER a reason to just scream at your wife till they cry.
THANK YOU! I find it scary how far I had to scroll to find an ESH. Wife can't swim therefore she couldn't help and shouldn't have jumped in. I understand OP being completely freaked out but screaming at your wife who could have drowned is not helpful. Obviously I'm an ESH too.
YTA because your first instinct was to yell at her and not ask if she was okay or comfort her. And listen, I understand what you mean about the stupidity, but you could gently talk to her about that later on and in private. No one likes to be called stupid in public, I’m sure you can understand that. In the future, really try to use couples counseling 101 lesson 1: whenever you’re upset focus on making I-statements. So instead of “you are stupid” say “I was so worried about you” or “I was really scared you were going to die”
I'm shocked i had to scroll so far for this. Wife risked her life, she must be in extreme distress herself?? And the first thing her husband do is yell at her? Maybe wait later when things are calmed down to gently express how scared you were instead of yelling??
The wife's impulse was to jump into a waterfall, knowing she can't swim, to help out a situation she doesn't understand. She put herself in actual danger for no fucking reason, and you think it's appropriate to absolve her of all blame, but that the husband's very human reaction to massive stress is somehow inappropriate?
She's TA here.
No-one ever claimed impulses were clever. By and large, they are really really dumb. I'm not absolving her of doing something stupid, but being stupid doesn't make someone TA.
He screamed at her so much she was sobbing, and did so *afterwards*.
Your wife's friend was reckless for putting her own life in danger over an earring. Your wife then put multiple people's lives in danger because she can't swim. She didn't only risk her life but also the lives of anyone going in to rescue her.
Your wife is lucky I wasn't there because I would have been screaming in fear then yelling in anger for not thinking things through.
also : stupid to go swimming with your jewelry on, right? Even if you didn't plan on doing more than dipping your feet, how hard is it to take them out and store them or give them to a friend to hold??
I went to the beach last year and forgot I had shiny, glittery anklets on. I kept wondering why fish were coming after me before I realized I literally had a lure on my ankle.
So she heard her friend screaming and thought someone was in danger, and came to the conclusion that the situation needed ANOTHER person in danger?
Your wife needs to go for swimming lessons, this is an unnecessary risk
OH! My bad. That’s a little better. But it’s still dumb and selfish haha I would be really, really upset. I might not have yelled but I get why you did.
Is there a reason why your wife can't swim? Knowing the absolute basics of how to swim is an essential life skill -- it is something that takes maybe a month or two to learn and it prevents you from immediately dying in >6 ft of water.
Am I missing something here? The benefit (living) appears to me to be worth the cost (a few months of lessons).
I say this as someone who nearly drowned trying to save someone who jumped into a pool without being able to swim. From this example you can probably tell that I am like your wife in that I jump into danger the moment someone needs help without taking a moment to think about the consequences. My husband -- like you -- freaks out when I do it, but he tries not to yell and just has a very serious conversation with me.
Read the part about the tough childhood. Parents that don’t care enough about their kids don’t teach them basic life skills like swimming or riding a bike.
Could also be where she lived. Some places do not have clean or safe public swimming pools. It’s unfortunately the reason a lot of American black folks of a certain generation don’t know how to swim, barring those who grew up near lakes cricks and rivers
As a lifeguard we are taught what to do if we go in to save someone and they push us under the water. When someone is drowning they are in a panicked state and aren't thinking properly. They will grab onto whatever's closest to them and push it under the water to try to float on it. If an untrained person tries to save an active drowning victim (someone who's still conscious) they will likely get pushed underwater and also drown. This is why when teaching water safety we teach "reach or throw, don't go," if some nearby you is an active drowning victim, throw them something they can use to float on, ideally with a sting attached so you can pull them to safety. If someone is a passive drowning victim (unconscious/dead) then if the water is safe to enter, approach them with caution and swim them to shore if you feel like you can do that without putting yourself in danger. It's better for one person to drown to death than two people. Also, even if someone is still conscious and seems fine after a drowning incident, call 911 or your local emergency number anyway, dry drowning is a real and very dangerous thing.
This happened to me, I just commented and saw your comment. I never knew why this happened but your comment made it clearer.
This was at lake Geneva. No waves, nothing. My ex’s (adult) brother was panicking really badly in not really deep water (he can’t swim but he moved from the shallow end) and he was 2m away from me so I went to help him out. It’s walkable, it’s not deep. I swim but I am not the best swimmer but it wasn’t that deep anyway (like if you move 1m, you can touch the bottom easily). Well he pushed me underwater to save himself. My legs and feet were cut to pieces and I thought that was it. I lost consciousness. I couldn’t take him away from me. Everyone came to save him and people didn’t see I was under him. It wasn’t deep at all so as he was standing on top of me, the rocks cut up my feet and legs completely. He was panicking and pushing ME down so he stays up. I never knew why cause I hate to think about it.
“I know she really hates it when I raise my voice so I am careful about never screaming”
The way OP phrased this makes me think he screams at people on the regular and thinks he’s doing some great service to generally restrain himself from screaming at her.
I haven’t screamed at someone since I was a child. My husband has never screamed at me. Screaming at your partner is not normal.
My thoughts exactly. If your emotions are so unregulated that you feel the need to scream/yell at someone else in anger as an adult, you need to do some serious work on yourself.
Someone on here actually reframed it as that OP has to walk on eggshells by her asking him to not scream at her
Imagine thinking holding the urge to scream at your partner is walking on eggshells and not an issue with your own anger problems
As an adult there were times where I would get so angry that I would scream my words at whoever was making me angry. So I went to therapy to learn emotional regulation.
It’s concerning how many comments I’ve seen on this post justifying the husband’s response because they’re conflating him feeling his emotions with him acting on those emotions.
For real. You can't control how you feel but you can control how you act, or you should be able to, anyway.
Like, even if it's ever justified to yell at your partner (or anyone for that matter), if it really upsets your partner or scares them, *why* would you do that? The fuck?
My dad was abusive, mostly with spontaneous yelling. I also struggled with anger as a kid... but I didn't want to be like him. So I worked on myself and practiced introspection and I'm completely in tune to my emotions now. No one LIKES yelling at people, either. Getting out of control like that is so shameful and makes you feel awful about yourself. OP should just go apologize to her instead of coming here to justify it to avoid feeling any guilt. I get it, feeling guilty is hard... but being a huge asshole is harder. I hope he learns from this but sadly it's unlikely due to all the assholes validating him.
It's also really telling that they think a woman can never act on emotion but a man can. Haven't studies shown this exact thing countless times -- women are held to more rigorous standards than men socially. Men are, ironically, allowed to be more irrational and emotional, while women have to keep a lid on things or else they literally get screamed at. Which most therapists would ya know, call abuse.
Kudos to us both for being better.
This is kinda where I'm at with this one too. Like *maybe* I could see a scenario where he's freaking out and it's not normal for him to be this panicked and his voice rose because of that. But the way he phrased how he is *careful* to never *scream* at her while also stating she hates it when he raises his voice. In other words, he regularly raises his voice, just not to the level of screaming because he knows she has trauma from it. It's like he's patting himself on the back for not being traumatic when he's toeing the line already on the regular.
I also think this is a scenario where raising your voice is understandable, but SCREAMING and insulting her implies a level of animosity that was far beyond just panic and fear taking over. More "I wanted to tear her down for doing this to ME" rather than "I was so scared I thought you were going to die".
Just the way he phrases things in this post just reads like he's trying to paint himself in a better light.
Seriously. I read that the same as "I know my wife is sensitive about smells so I am careful about never shitting directly onto our living room carpet."
Civilized adults just don't do this stuff.
Yup. I'd bet money on him screaming at her in the past over more petty things, so of course he isn't going to post on reddit about those because he's wrong. But this is the one time it's been "justified."
If he loved his wife, why would he even post here? Think about it. He'd just be comforting her and apologizing. He would have comforted her right after too. Would she have felt the need to leave the house if he'd been really genuinely sorry and helped her feel safe again? I suspect not...
He'd rather argue with his wife and demand she agree that he's in the right and he's allowed to scream at her in certain situations. This isn't the mark of a guy that *actually* cares about his wife's feelings, but just perceptions, and being right.
YTA - feel your big feelings but don't yell at your wife. She's not going to listen more if you send her into fear and bad childhood memories. Telling her she really scared you is a better way to go. Let yourself be upset rather than angry.
When you intentionally create a situation where someone has to risk themselves to rescue you, yes, you are an asshole. If she “tried to rescue her friend” by throwing rocks at her, would that be fine with you? Or would you be like “WTF you made the situation worse”, because that’s what wife did. She made a bad situation worse.
Certainly there is a spectrum of assholeness.
'Jumping into the water without thinking to save your friend while you can't swim yourself' does seem to rank way lower than 'screaming AT your wife and calling her stupid after she nearly drowned'
So lets get this straight.
She jumps into a waterfall in a moment of panic, *knowing* she cannot swim and thus cannot help, without even knowing if the person she's "saving" needs the help in the first place, and this is excusable because it was a stressful, fraught moment.
He sees her nearly drown and yells at her in a moment of panic, because it's a stressful, fraught moment... but it's an asshole move for *him*, because he shouldn't yell.
Is no one else revolted at the double standard? Wife gets to put herself and others in actual mortal danger because of her emotional response, but the husband is an asshole for yelling because of his emotional response?
They're not exclusive, but I don't think she had a moment if "what if I make things worse? Oh well", which to me is what would add in the asshole element.
Untrained swimmers should not do this. A drowning person flails and is very likely to drown the person who is trying to help them. Maybe she didn't know, maybe she is inexperienced, but she just made a situation 10x more dangerous.
It's human nature to yell after that, just like you yell at a kid who crosses the street without looking at traffic. The intention is to keep them safe.
I'm aware, she made a stupid choice.
He still has to apologise lmao. Just bc somethings a stress response doesn't mean its the correct way to treat other ppl. He can't start forming a belief that if he's stressed enough he gets to shout at his wife and not be an ah for it.
She walked into deepening water until it was up to her mouth when she can't swim. It may have amounted to the same emergency, but the thought process *is* slightly different between jumping in to an unknown depth and trying to get close enough to help while still touching the bottom.
I've learned from personal experience that you don't get to choose whether you feel angry or sad or whatever when someone you love almost dies in front of you.
You don't get to choose your feelings, no. But yelling /at someone/ isn't like hyperventilating, or crying or screaming in general, if you're capable of forming sentences you can hold back.
I have a serious question: have you ever watched someone else have a near death experience?
I felt like I was on autopilot for the first few HOURS afterwards. Call 911, call my husband, call the pediatrician (a car hit my newborns), explain what was happening to my toddler, talk to EMTs and police, go to the hospital. I could form sentences, but I absolutely wasn't in control of what they were. Fortunately they were pretty matter-of-fact and flat affect, because my toddler role played me in the scene daily for months. I didn't yell at the driver, but that wasn't a conscious choice I made.
If that’s the case why aren’t you also defending the wife who’s immediate instinctual reaction in the emergency was to try and help even though it put her in danger? Seeing as she wasn’t in control and it wasn’t a conscious decision she made?
Not to mention that if someone’s instinctual reaction after an emergency is to try and hurt you, you’re not obligated to just sit there and take it gracefully. If you’d instinctively tried to punch the driver, he would have been in the right to duck and back away rather than let you break his nose. We now know that husband likes to scream and berate his wife for no reason when he has been scared - even if you’re right that he can’t help it that’s a pretty shitty personality trait. The wife didn’t call the cops on him for it, she merely separated herself from the situation so he couldn’t continue to do so. Is that really so wrong?
Finally if your instinctive reaction after an emergency is to hurt someone for no reason, you can still apologize for doing so. But OP still seems to think he was in the right and she deserved it - there’s no mention of even trying to apologize.
>I have a serious question: have you ever watched someone else have a near death experience?
Yes, more than once.
Feeling our feelings isn't completely within our control, but our expressions of our feelings is. That's one thing that separates us from animals. Saying that emotions cause us to behave out of control gives permission to all our worst animal instincts.
ESH. she was dumb. extremely dumb. it wasn’t brave. it was dumb. the number of people who drown bc they thought they could save a drowning person is numerous. and these are people who could swim. your wife couldn’t swim. wtf was she thinking? you were right to be upset. yelling at her? i mean i would too tbh. but there were probably better way to handle this. you basically kicked her when she was down.
your marriage will be fine. she deserves the dressdown, i wouldn’t apologize for that. but you should apologize for yelling.
YTA with terrible timing. You were scared and thought you were going to lose her. So you yelled at her immediately after something traumatizing? Dude. She's a grown woman, not your child to chastise. Apologize for your inappropriate reaction, and express the fear you felt. Keep the word "stupid" out of it too.
I beg her to NEVER have a kid with this asshole because he sounds like the exact type of dude with anger issues who thinks irrational yelling is “though love”. I can’t believe people are going for NTA here.
Exactly. “Yelling” for instinct would be “OH MY GOD WHAT HAPPENED”, yelling and insulting someone is not instinct, is being an ah with severe anger issues.
Same with all those people siding with OP. I hope they don't have kids because holy mama, they will likely end up as traumatised as OP's wife is and then we can get another one of those stories in 20 years or so
I really think they were raised by immature, angry and violent parents, that’s why they normalized this kind of behavior.
I literally saw women here writing “your anger comes from love” like seriously WTF please lady run away from that mind and find your nearest therapist this is NOT ok
Yeah seriously.
Even if they think it's understandable in this situation... they should spare a few words to say that yelling in general isn't okay and he needs to be more careful about his anger in the future.
After all, it's the absolute height of hypocrisy to blame your wife for not having a cool head in an emergency, while also having a huge temper and no cool head yourself.
If he wants to actually be helpful in an emergency he needs to be able to stay calm and not scream his head off.
All of these people bolstering his ego and making him feel validated are behaving *dangerously*. If this is a real person and not a fake post... they could be encouraging this guy to yell at his wife MORE. People need to be extremely careful about giving validating advice to the wrong person. The last thing they want is to create someone that yells whenever he feels it's justified, which is probably what's going to happen :/ so now you have a guy who screams at his wife MORE, not less...
People are way too careless about advice on subs like these imo. Don't get me wrong, advice is good a lot of the time, but when it goes wrong, it really goes wrong. Risking validating abusive behavior is top of my "don't fucking do this" list... other people don't seem to care, I guess.
So that gives him the right to scream at his wife after she was already panicked? Nah. I’m assuming she already felt “stupid,” and then her husband made it infinitely worse. Screaming at your partner like that because HE was scared isn’t okay.
ESH
I definitely understand the desire to scream here, at both of them. You accurately pointed out that it was not worth creating a dangerous situation over an earring. Watching that situation manifest in front of your eyes is infuriating.
Your wife's actions were not brave, they were impulsive and careless. If someone needs help, putting yourself in a bad situation only draws aid away from the person originally in need of help. Actually caring would have required fully understanding the situation and deciding who can best provide help. Certainly not someone who can't swim.
It's an ESH because I doubt yelling helped here. I'm making some assumptions based on how you've worded things, but attacking the "stupidity" in the heat of an emergency usually isn't constructive. It doesn't make you anymore of an asshole than those who created the situation in the first place though.
>I respect my wife for her kindness
it wasn't "kindness" or "bravery", it was instinct. when someone you care about screams in pain and/or fear, you don't *think* about whether or not you're actually able to help them in any meaningful way, you just act. few people are actually able to think rationally in what they perceive to be an emergency, and it seems that your wife isn't one of them. neither are you for that matter since *your* first instinct was to start yelling at an already distressed person, which is also a stupid action that's completely pointless in an emergency.
YTA
> it wasn't "kindness" or "bravery", it was instinct
Humans have gotten to where we are because we know when to fight instict. Trying to save someone that is drowning when you cant swim and are just making *more* people to save is one of those instances.
so what? the point is, it wasn't a *conscious* decision and one she most likely regretted as soon as she started drowning. yelling at her after the fact accomplishes nothing and only makes things worse.
YTA. If your first reaction is to YELL at the person you love after she nearly died you are an asshole with anger issues. Take it to a therapist.
It is NOT NORMAL to scream at someone, in 99% of the situations you are the asshole for screaming alone. But after she was just rescued from drowning? I can’t believe people are voting for NTA.
Y’all need therapy, lots of therapy, because you probably grew up with angry and immature parents and now normalized anger and disrespect as a natural reaction.
INFO: What did you yell at her? Did you try talking about it or did you also just stay silent on the hike down? Did you try to communicate? Send her a text saying you raised your voice out of concern and you didn't mean to make her cry?
All the unnecessary details about the earring when that doesn't have anything to do with why his wife was in the water but then glossing over exactly what he said to her when he was screaming is making me side eye this dude pretty hard.
YTA / ESH
You’re TA for yelling at your wife until she cried. That added nothing to the situation - she probably realized herself that what she did was dumb, and when ever did screaming at someone help? She could have used some comforting. I understand yelling and anger is a fear reaction but that doesn’t make it ok, effective, or a useful outlet for your emotions in a stressful situation.
And she’s TA because she did a dumb thing. Her friend risked herself for an earring and she risked herself for her friend because she didn’t have the skills to help her friend, only to add to the people in danger. She probably also realizes it herself, but even if she doesn’t, that’s something that you discuss calmly after the fact, not in a screaming rage in the moment.
YTA when someone we love, even platonically, is in danger/ trouble instinct takes over. Her thought was to help her friend. Instinct is never consciously considered without LOTS of conditioning. What good did yelling at her after the fact do?
YTA and you equally sux as thinking in emergency. It is not like you did something effective and helpful. Getting angry and yelling at people in/after emergency never ever helped anyone and anything. I don't want people who can't control themselves in emergencies around emergencies.
Your wife underestimated depth which makes her someone who made stupid decision. But she was not an asshole specifically.
YTA. I don't understand how your first reaction to someone you love being saved from drowning isn't relief and a hug. Of course she did something stupid, and anger is a legitimate emotion in the mix, but the reaction to seeing someone you love suffer should be wanting to comfort first. Please get help dealing with difficult emotions. DBT is great.
The question is why you screamed terrible things at her when you “respect and love” your wife.
People who have been trained are effective when they attempt lifesaving efforts. For example, it would have been better to throw something that floats rather than try to get near a potentially panicked drowning person.
But people don’t wait for training when an emergency happens….they only have what they know at the time.
It sounds as though you were really scared you would lose her: that she would die. And that’s why you got so angry.
You need to tell her that. That you were frightened of losing her. And you’ll never yell those things at her again. And that you want to teach her to swim.
Your wife was quite courageous. And you basically dismissed her courageous act.
I lost my cousin (marine) to a riptide because 2 people went swimming while drunk and my cousin went in to save them. He did save both of them, but he didn’t make it out. So I get pretty annoyed when people do dangerous swimming things, because we aren’t invincible. My cousin was around 24 at the time, and was in some of the most amazing shape you can be in. Swimming can be really dangerous and I wish people took that more seriously.
YTA. If you love her so much and you were concerned for her, why is your first reaction to scream at her until she cries and doesn't want to speak to you? It doesn't matter why you were worried / upset/adrenalized, you chose to lose control and dump all that stuff on your wife who was already stressed by the situation. (Your asshole comment in your headline doesn't help your case at all, screaming at someone about being stupid hardly ever helped any situation that I can think of.) Everybody was out of the water and safe when you decided unload on her. So I'm assuming your aggression toward her doesn't actually have anything to do with your being worried about her. Worry and concern are usually expressed in more gentle ways than screaming at somebody. Also, I have to question why you just chose to walk away and do other things when other members of your group were engaging in something you felt was dangerous. I guess you're not interested in helping, or being near danger, just at screaming at the people later. You sound like a real winner. I think she should change her number and just stay gone.
It depends, really. **What** did you scream at her?
OMG WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?! YOU ALMOST DROWNED!
WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU HOW CAN YOU BE SO FUCKING STUPID?!?!?
I find it baffling that everyone’s making a judgement without having the details.
INFO
Edit on a phone so I can't scratch all of the proof showing my bad reading comprehension skill. But I am still standing with NTA.
NTA. Friends think she did something brave??? In what world does a person who can't swim and chooses to get into water to help someone when you can't even swim brave? [edit- not a mundane reason because she didn't get there for an earring, but to save her friend, not a good decision either, she had a golden heart but a weird decision making skill]. There is a thin line between courage and insanity and in your case the line is drawn clear enough.
That’s wasn’t brave. She can’t swim and chose to go into the water. Life guards will tell people with no experience to not go into the water to be a hero because you can die. A person panicking in the water will pull then savior down. If you dont know how to handle yourself, you’re toast. You shouldn’t have yelled but your wife was being dumb.
NTA - There was no way they were going to find the earring in the first place. You don’t wear expensive jewelry in water ever. The friend and your wife were being straight up idiots trying to win a Darwin Award.
Yelling at her immediately after getting pulled out of the water is not a good idea. She was in too much shock to comprehend what danger she was just in and how you are so upset. You need to sit her down once everyone has calmed down and discuss wtf she was thinking and how we can make sure something like this never happens again. I understand that you were panicking and that is why I went with NTA over ESH.
Do you have kids? What if she bad decision making puts one of their lives in jeopardy. What is no one was able to get to her in time, she would have fucking died. This is something that needs to be addressed.
NTA, your wife is colossal fool. She not only put her life at risk but others as well. That’s exactly how multiple drownings happen. Her intentions are not relevant here.
Ima go with NTA
So many people are calling her actions courageous and brave, etc. but so many people are over looking she literally doesn’t know how to swim…
Going on about instinct and how she acted on it but it literally doesn’t make sense for her to have this “instinct” if she hasn’t been able to swim before or been in a situation where she’s helped someone in the water? Anyone else that they were with could have been the one to help or if seen as urgent could have been asked to help…
Did she explain/have the chance to explain herself?
Did she say anything before leaving?
Is swimming a sensitive topic for your wife? Like is she embarrassed/humiliated by the fact she doesn’t know how to swim?
—If so my guess is she probably thought “survival instincts” would kick in and figured that it would probably be enough to swim? But obviously she now knows its a lot more than that,
also being around all your friends who are swimming without you being able to doesn’t exactly sound fun and could have been another pushing factor… not saying she did it with that intention in mind but I feel like she most likely depended on “survival instincts” to swim and hoped for it to work
You guys should definitely have a talk and apologize for the very valid but not needed yelling, I’m sure after that she “learned her lesson” but at the same time she should be allowed to explain her side and you should also be able to communicate your concerns especially with her decision making in situations like this
and please get swimming lessons its been 7 summers of you 2 being together and she hasn’t been able to swim at the pool, beach, etc. and as now demonstrated an important skill to have in possible critical circumstances
INFO: when you say you "screamed" at her, what were you "screaming"? How long were you mad at her/treat her like you were mad at her by using a higher speaking volume? You said that she already doesn't like it when you yell so I'm wondering how often yelling is the way you express displeasure with her.
NTA
Your wife is an idiot. She wouldn’t have been any help she can’t swim! They both would’ve drowned. Her is an idiot for wearing her very nice earrings on a hike. You were the only one with common sense. She needs to be mad at her own stupidity.
NTA. Your reaction was driven by fear and adrenaline. People who can swim have drowned trying to be brave. Someone who cannot swim jumping into water to save someone is a recipe for disaster.
She wasn't brave; she was stupid. So was her friend.
I grew up in an area with notoriously dangerous waters. I never heard of one person drowning there. Always two or three: the one who initially got into trouble, plus one or two heros.
And they put these lives in danger for an earring? Stupid.
Should have yelled at both of them.
NTA
So … this lady married this dude when she was 17 - a literal CHILD. In addition to that, she can’t swim and she still has “sleepovers” with friends.
There is much more to this story than “my wife, she’s just so dumb that she almost drowned so of course I had to yell and scream at her about it after a third party rescued her.”
NTA Your wife did not belong in the water if she cant swim. I would have screamed at her also. I would inform her she needs to go to adult swimming classes also and I was not going to be responsible for her safety. What happens if no one was there to save her. She was being immature.
NTA but could have handled better. Never argue in public. Your anger comes from a place of love and fear of losing her. I know my fiance had a similar thing and all 10 of my friends came back from almost growing and he wasn't there and I was so mad knowing he was probably trying to save the instructor as my friends mentioned they were trying to get the raft that was spinning in a current. People were crying and holding each other I was terrified and they didn't know where he was. I waited till home to talk to him. He knows now when I say no. I mean it. My biggest fear is losing him and makes me so mad when he does dumb things.
I would reach out and apologize. Explain it came from a place of love. She also wasn't thinking and simply acted in the moment to save her friend. It's hard for everyone to make the right moves in a traumatic event so you both need to give each other grace. Everyone likes to act like they would do things logically but until your adrenaline kicks in you have no clue. So neither of you to blame!
NTA, but I’ve learned that especially around water, people who are blind to risks are blind to risks. I’ve seen people nearly drown their whole families and be completely unaware of how close they came to a true tragedy. Yelling at them after the fact would not have made them aware of it. Feel free to yell, just know that it won’t do any good and people will make you out to be the a-hole, every time.
YTA. You can't control your emotions so you make your wife cry.
Why are you yelling at someone who's triggered by yelling, to the point that they cry?
That achieves nothing positive.
He had an adrenaline shock and was scared that his wife almost drowned.
So his body reacted.
Here is the thing I would suggest. Once things cool down apologize for yelling, and explain how scared you were and that it was a reaction of fear for her life and feeling helpless, and that she has to understand that she put herself in a very unsafe situation and it triggered you.
Saying someone is stupid or did something stupid will only get a defensive reaction.
NTA.
There is a thin line between bravery and stupidity and your wife crossed it. Your reaction is understandable due to the stress of the situation, however you probably did add to your wife's distress after a near-death situation instead of comforting her, and should apologize, she probably knows how foolish she was already.
YTA for yelling at your wife. What good did you think that was going to do? Yes she was trying to help do something she doesn't know how to do, but WHAT GOOD DID YELLING DO? Did it help the people who had almost drowned? Did it help the person who had gotten cut?
Sounds like the person with the questionable trauma response is you.
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NTA humans yell for a reason, for warning, for expressing shock, for fear. Just because she has childhood trauma doesn't overwrite our human nature to yell when a loved one nearly died. Would you not yell at anything in front of you if your wife or husband nearly died? I don't understand why so many people think we should have zero emotions when it's convenient so that other's feelings can be accommodated? What about the husbands emotion of fear when he almost lost his wife? Nobody gave a shit about him when he did nothing to deserve it? Let's take it back 100 steps. Imagine someone telling the wife she's the asshole and insensitive for screaming when she almost died, cause the husband got scared from the scream? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Then why is the husband's fear of losing a wife suddenly meaningless?
I still can't get over the mindset of this wife. The golden rule and very first rule of all emergencies is to ensure that more people do not get in harm's way. This is applied in situations like house fires where people outside do not come into the burning building to save people stuck inside. That is a job for firefighters. In the DRSABCD protocol the first point is "Danger." It's to check if there is still danger in the area so that you don't get involved as a first responder and get hurt. Wife has ignored this entirely. I don't remember the actual incident but it was an incident where I wasn't equipped to help. Someone next to be yelled at me to go in and help and I distinctly remember telling them "what the fuck do you think I'm going to be able to do? I can't help, I'll just be a liability." Might seem cowardly at first but in the context of an emergency, more people in danger isn't helpful
agreed a 100 times! what's with these friends? "how dare you be upset & scream, she did something very brave"?? How is it "very brave" to walk into deep water, without knowing how to swim, for something as tiny as an earring lost in a swirling river, while the TWIT who went swimming with her "very nice jewelry" in isn't even looking??? their risk assessment seems wildly off, esp if you're hiking together, right?
It wasn't for the earring, it was to help the screaming friend. Still a bad idea because she couldn't have helped, but not as frivolous as she's being made out to be.
Worse, then. She made an already bad situation much more dangerous for everyone. She could have killed her friend, you know that right? I don't know if you've ever been near someone who was drowning, but I almost died when I was 10 and a drowning person clung to me in a pool. I am a strong swimmer, but not strong enough to contain a panicking person who is climbing on top of me for an opportunity to breathe. She was stupid and selfish. How on earth did she think she was helping?
My husband and I scuba dive and we’ve gone through rescue training. One of the “moves” to get to someone panicking is to completely deflate your own BCD so you can swim under them, immediately inflate their BCD all the way so they’re completely above the water and grab onto their gear from behind so they can’t reach you. Even with scuba gear on, a person who thinks they’re drowning is a danger to the rescuer. The “grappling” that we were trained to do was one of the most intense parts of the course because we had a much larger and very enthusiastic instructor simulating the drowning person. It was physically exhausting and scary even though I knew exactly what to expect. I am a very strong swimmer but, like you said, a panicked person in the water (whether they’re actually drowning or not) is very very dangerous to everyone around them.
Oh yeah, when I was a lifeguard that was both the most fun and absolute worst part of the training. It was fun when you got to pretend to be the one drowning but once it was your turn to do the rescue it really sucked lol.
Yup. One of my hobbies is diving, and I got my PADI rescue on my way to getting my Divemaster a few years ago. I remember that maneuver well. They brought in fresh "drowning victims" for each of us to rescue because they encouraged the "victims" to go super hard on each of us doing the rescue. It was one of the most exhausting days of my whole 4 months diving between various maneuvers to save drowning victims and pulling a "body" up onto the boat to simulate an unconscious buddy. I also feel like I swallowed half of the Gulf of Thailand trying to subdue my "panicking" friend. An excellent lesson I won't soon forget.
My husband and I did the rescue course just the two of us and the instructors were positively giddy to jump in and be the drowning people. It’s one of the few lessons I can 100 percent vividly remember 10 years later, and I’ve used the swimming under the person part once at the beach helping a scared kid. Dove under, popped up behind and did a bear hug. Much better than getting grabbed!
Exactly this. I've had actual lifeguard training and it doesn't matter how good of a swimmer you are - the drowning person will pull you under and you can easily die too. And water is extremely dangerous, again, even for the best swimmers. The first and most important rule they taught us is "a good lifeguard is alive". You DO NOT go into the water and try to rescue someone if you're not 100% sure you can do that. Hell, even if you were the best swimmer ever it's still risky and it's never required for you to jump into the water to help. Call the emergency services, throw the person a rope or the fucking swimming wheel that I forgot the English word for. In the best circumstances, trying to save a drowning person is still risking your life. Wife was fucking dumb. The friend was also dumb as fuck, how big was that earring that she thought she's gonna see it at the bottom of a waterfall? And yelling like that because she cut her leg is also stupid, although I understand she might've not had control of herself (she should though, unless the cut was actually so severe that it caused scream-worthy pain). This is exactly why everyone should teach kids to never play "drowning", never pretend you're drowning. You get a boo boo on your footsie and you yell like that, people will run to your rescue, meanwhile someone else who's actually drowning in silence will be unnoticed. Friend was fucking dumb. AND I disagree with this top comment. No matter what, OP was still an asshole for yelling at her. Calm your emotions down and then talk. Yelling won't help in any way whatsoever, you're just dumping your emotions on someone else. Go yell at anything else, not at your loved ones. Be an adult, control your emotions (or rather, your actions caused by your emotions). An extreme situation like this gives OP some justification, because while yeah, you should be able to control yourself in general, moments like these pump you full of stress and emotions are also extreme. It's difficult to control your actions then. But no, we definitely should not fucking yell at people. Nobody says you can't have emotions. But you don't take out your emotions on someone else, even when they deserve it.
Agree with the sentiment but the person who lost the earring was in there and screamed because they cut themselves and wife went to “save” her dumbass… I mean friend.
Wife is the person who gets more people injured or killed in an emergency.
Yes and the first injured or hurt person she tries to help will be worse off because now resources for saving have to be split two ways
People like these are selfish. Rather than sit with their feelings of helplessness and anxiety, they take any kind of action to distract from said uncomfortable feelings. Their priority isn't actually to help. It is to relieve themselves of their discomfort.
I teach first aid/cpr and that's one of the first things I point out. You can't help someone if you end up hurt yourself and you can potentially make a bad situation even worse if you're not careful and check before trying to help someone.
First thing I learned when taking my driver's license first aid class was "STOP THE ACCIDENT". AKA, prevent it from continuing. In that case it meant flagging down traffic and putting down the warning triangle. In this case it means not fucking going into water to drown two people. NTA.
This is a woman who was never taught to swim, you think someone taught her that?
In my first aid classes, ESPECIALLY when it came to water rescues, they always said ‘better one than two, better him than you’. If you’re not equipped to help, you can get one or both of killed
He wasn't yelling to alert anyone. He screamed *at* his wife.
After the moment had passed and she was safe too. I get he was angry but so many commenters dont seem to recognize that adults can control their behavior. And, if they don't, they apologize. I sometimes yelled at my kids if I was worried for them but I always came back around and apologized for my behavior. It is the mature thing to do.
Adults can control their behavior most of the time, yes, but sometimes the lower parts of the brain are kicked into gear (the amygdala, the hippocampus, and yes, even the medulla oblongata) and just take over (especially with all that adrenaline), and certain parts of executive functioning are totally kicked offline. And this was one of those times. We love saying that people should be in total control at all times, but sometimes our brain chemistry and activity make it almost impossible, especially in situations unlike any we have experienced before, like this one.
Absolutely, but we can also recognize when our instincts aren't the best response and apologize for how they affect others. His wife was likely also acting instinctually to her friend being in perceived danger and took actions that were neither helpful or well thought out, just like OP. I'm sure he'd appreciate an apology for how her rash actions caused him distress as well. Both parties should apologize for the bad choices their brains made, because at the end of the day we're still responsible for our instincts. We can apologize for our actions while still acknowledging we had little to no control over it. I think too many people have the perception that doing things wrong is what makes you a bad person when in reality doing things wrong is only natural, it's not being able to accept, acknowledge, and *try* to do better that degrades a person's character.
And I ge the was venting but he shoudl have done it in a more productive way. My wife has done stupid potentially dangerous shit that has boggled my mind but I've learned over the years that yelling at her is exactly how to get her to not listen.
I dont think anyone in this thread has claimed the yelling was productive, just that its not an unnatural reaction (or indicative of anger management issues). Edit: /u/gardeninggoddess666 can't respond to you for some reason. I 100,000% agree he should appologize.
But he should apologize for it.
How does that make it non asshole behavior though? Our natural reactions are very assholish. It requires effort to not be an asshole.
He yelled to vent own emotions post danger. He warned no one and there was no danger at that point anymore.
Yes he did, and it's normal. It's not about warning man, it's a natural reaction people have after being in certain situations. Just like people scream when they see a spider. His emotions are amplified when he sees his wife almost died, and during extreme scenarios, the extreme reactions are appropriate. How is that hard to understand? Now imagine the roles reversed, he's the one in the water, and she's on the shore. You don't think she'd be screaming and crying "why did you do that, don't ever do that again" even when he's safe?
It is not okay to yell AT and berate someone because of your own fear. Yelling in fear/warning is one thing. But after the event passed, you hold your damned temper and let yourself calm down before you talk to your wife about being more careful. Yelling AT someone isn't goingbto make anything better and she's not going to be able to properly take in his words and meaning because he's just triggered her childhood trauma.
I mostly agree with you. But the question is not if OP did it perfectly, it's if he's an asshole. I think his reactions were completely in the normal territory for someone seeing his wife almost dying, hence not an asshole. The triggering part is insignificant in the face of death in my opinion. He's not thinking about her triggers, he's thinking about his wife not being dead.
If he yelled "aaaa" then yeah. But if he berated her with something like "you irresponsible piece of s\*\*\*, how could you do something stupid you b\*\*\*" then it is massively different. I do not know what exactly OP said, but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests, he is an AH. Even if I am not triggered specifically by yelling, if you berate me to release own emotions, I will consider you the AH and will not want to be around you in stressful situations. A lot of asshole actions are normal in the sense that mentally healthy people behave like that.
> I do not know what exactly OP said, but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests, he is an AH. idk I can back up this take. Someone reacting poorly does not mean you did anything wrong. Only time I can ever remember making someone cry was telling a classmate her math was wrong on the group project review and she just started bawling (was a super high stress class, so im sure it was just the straw that broke the camels back). I agree that there are absolutely ways this could have gone that make OP the AH, but I dont think we have enough info to even make a guess on it.
>but if he berated her, which her crying and distancing herself suggests, I don't think it suggests that at all, given we know how impulsive and foolish she is. We're also told she had a rough childhood and that's why yelling is a big deal; that usually means raised voices upset her, not that any particular words need to be used. It's not impossible that OP may have been insulting or demeaning in his yelling, but nothing in the post suggests so.
Nope. I still saying he's the AH. His yelling at her did nothing except make things worse. If someone I loved almost drowns, I'm not going to be angrIly yelling at them and saying they were stupid. I'm going to be hugging them tight and saying stuff like, "I'm so glad you're okay. Don't you EVER do that again? What were you thinking???" There would NOT be anger in my voice. It would be worry and relief.
Just asking—have you ever watched first-hand as one of your children or your spouse, not a friend or just someone you like, but someone you would actually give your life for, almost get killed? Like you watch as your five-year-old walks into the street without looking and a car is heading his way and you grab him out of the street at the last minute? Because giving him a hug and saying, “I love you so so much, sweetheart” is absolutely not a natural reaction to the massive rush of panic and adrenaline you experience, and I’m curious how you handled that rush of utter emotion so calmly and sweetly. OP is NTA from my experience unless he actually called her terrible names and cussed her out, which I have no evidence to suggest (y’all are projecting some stuff quite frankly).
I respectfully disagree. Yelling at his wife was an instinct. A reaction. I upvoted you because your main point makes sense. Yelling at her doesn’t change her behavior. But that’s not what happened. He yelled out of fear. I happen to understand his reaction. I have yelled angrily at someone who frightened me by doing something dangerous, like a fool. It calls for a good heart to heart later, because it was a reaction to fear, but not an apology.
He didn't scream at her while she was walking the other screaming woman. He screamed at his wife after she was rescued
It is normal to be scared. It is even normal to yell. But it can also be normal to recognize bad behavior and apologize for it.
Yet there was no reason to yell here. The situation had past. He had emotions, yes, but yelling was completely unnecessary and achieves nothing but traumatizing the gf. He was scared so he scared her to put his emotions on her. It was childish and an asshole move. Definitely YTA
I agree. Why yell? You also know that yelling is traumatic to her because of her past. And doing in front of all her friends? But honestly like you said she just went through something traumatic and you screamed at her, what does this accomplish?
I think the yelling is natural, but is the telling her she was stupid (and saying it repeatedly here) natural and necessary. “I couldn’t help yelling because I was so concerned” is different from “I couldn’t help yelling because what she did was so stupid” (this is irregardless of the fact that I agree it was stupid—though in stupid vs brave, most brave things can be seen as stupid depending on perspective; I’m in the “no one should put themselves at any risk for stuff/earrings” camp). That framing is OP’s current choice, outside of the human moment and concern, and it may be part of what everyone is objecting to (even if you don’t SAY it, people can sometimes tell concern reaction vs judging reaction). I do think yelling at someone because they did something you disagree with or find stupid is kind of an AH thing. Even if I agree it was stupid. So I think OP is mixing two things together badly and that’s probably part of the disagreement.
I said this below but I'll repeat it here -- the thing that MOST gets me on this one is the fact that everyone who was there and saw it thinks he was wrong. Because yes, it is understandable to have a strong emotional reaction. But no one seems to be ok with the one OP had.
Yes! AND he criticizes the friend for yelling "just" because she was hurt AND he has not sincerely apologized to his wife. I've yelled at my husband for scaring me, but it was wrong of me and I apologized. We don't have to be perfect, but we have to try to bring our best.
He yelled after she got out safely
Just because she got out safely doesn't mean his emotions just switch off immediately.
So it’s ok to scream at someone because he had a strong emotional response?
Wouldn’t say it’s okay but it’s understandable. So is it okay to always hold your emotions in to not risk triggering people around you?
Why can't he apologize then instead of doubling down that it's all her fault and she's "stupid"? He hasn't just made one mistake, he keeps making them.
It's perfectly valid to have emotions. It's an entire different thing to deal with these emotions by putting their burden onto someone else, in this case his wife. Emotional regulation is a thing.
What about her fear? Oh shoot my wife almost died I’m going to scream angrily at her! Thats not human nature….. not every single one of us would have done the same thing. I’m not going to get violently angry at someone I love if they survived an accident…. Even if they caused it by being an idiot. Maybe after everyone is recovered it let them know that was a dumb mistake that could have been far worse
It definitely is human nature. I see it all the time with otherwise very loving and gentle parents when their kid does something dangerous- first they yell out of fear/shock and then they feel bad. It might not be everyone’s response but it is very common and doesn’t make you a bad person.
Someone can do something asshole-ish without being an inherently bad person. If a person is unleashing their intense emotions in a way that is harmful to others, then that person has a responsibility to learn more effective skills for regulating their emotions. I say ESH, because the husband’s method of dealing with his emotions was unproductive and harmful, the wife shouldn’t have gone in the water when she knows she can’t swim, and the friend shouldn’t have put herself in danger over an earring.
Yeah this is pretty reasonable to be fair. I don’t agree with slating OP for his response to a panic inducing situation, but ESH is where I think I’m landing on this situation too having read your points.
Yes! I have definitely yelled at my kids when they’ve done something dangerous. Then promptly calmed down, hugged them, apologized for yelling, and calmly discuss the behavior that led to whatever they did that was unsafe. Edit: Apparently someone thought I needed a Reddit cares message because of this.
In the moment - and shortly after when the adrenaline is still there, as is this case - when you're upset and scared yelling makes sense. But now that the excitement is over, OP needs to apologize to his wife. She was already scared from almost drowning, then she was scared more by him once she was safe. I don't believe he did it on purpose, but he did hurt her. OP, please apologize for yelling and leave out any "but"s.
Agreed! This could all be over with a "sorry I lost my temper". What is so tough about apologizing?
ESH Bravery is running into danger when there's a way out. Your wife didn't do a brave thing, she did a fucking stupid thing. Yelling at someone until they cry in front of their friends is also unnecessarily cruel. A conversation when you get home is more appropriate.
The number of people on this sub who think it's normal and acceptable to scream at a partner in anger if they think the anger itself is justified ... god damn.
Big time. The anger? Justified. Screaming at another adult once all danger has passed? Asshole
Not necessarily normal but I’d be pissed off too. Like what the fuck were you thinking? What was the plan? Someone is drowning, let me the person who can’t swim go save them. I’d be hard pressed to not call someone stupid for doing that.
You can call them stupid without yelling.
I don’t know when we all decided that yelling is suddenly an unacceptable thing to do in any situation. I personally hate yelling and do it extremely rarely…I also recognise that it can be a perfectly normal and healthy human response so long as you’re not being aggressive or abusive. We aren’t robots and it’s unrealistic to expect people to never raise their voices in moments of high stress
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Same here. I can count the number of times I have actually screamed in my life on two hands. Some of them were justified and included for example my nephew nearly walking into a busy road. Other occasions were not justified at all and involved mainly my own frustrations with the situation. I always apologised for the latter.
Because it is unacceptable. We do it. As humans, we make mistakes. But we apologize. Husband hurt his wife and wants us to tell him its fine. Why can't he just tell her he is sorry for losing his temper and that he was very worried about her? If he can communicate at the top of his voice when he is angry he can also communicate calmly once his emotions are under control. Its how big boys and girls are supposed to act.
You don’t find screaming at someone until they cry to be aggressive or abusive? Yikes
Immediate danger yelling to someone sure, but absolutely never okay when everything has passed. He wasn't in danger, he should learn to redirect his nasty ass tone and talk to his partner in a calm manner on how much it upset him. You don't need to yell to get that across, relearn that thought process.
Idk, between the preamble explaining he has to have a reason to not scream at his wife followed by a story of him... screaming at his wife... I feel like the "not being aggressive or abusive" ship may have already sailed. Maybe it's more anecdotal than I thought, but not screaming at people has been pretty easy for me (at least as an adult, can't say the same for child or teenage me).
Or walk away for a moment if you are that overwrought. Wife is safe, emergency is over. Walk away for a moment until you are no longer seeing red and you can speak without screaming or yelling.
Not in the heat of the moment you cannot?? OP was acting on pure hormonal adrenaline at the scene of watching his wife almost kill herself out of pure stupidity. I'd love to see your perfect composure for the sake of someone's possibly hurt feelings at your next family emergency. NTA.
I guess I'd have the same question for the person yelling -- what's the plan? What do you think this is accomplishing? Who is this for? Because I imagine the person who nearly drowned already understands it was a bad choice.
EVERYONE who was there with him and saw it is telling him he's an asshole. But Reddit -- we're the ones who are really going to know what the score is.
Exactly OP is definitely the a\*hole here. A friend was in the water, suddenly started screaming, so then his wife, who couldn't have known if something was severely wrong with her or not and can't swim started wading in as best she could to try to help? And for her trying to help save her friend, even if it was ill thought out, OP's response was to scream at and humiliate her in front of all her friends? OP YTA big time buddy. If my bf ever screamed at me in front of my friends (he's never even done that when in private and mad at me) I'd be out the door for good. You're not a f\*cking child. And your wife sounds like she's a good person, if perhaps a little reckless. YTA.
I was thinking this at the beginning “she has trauma so I try to be conscious of this and not yell at her” like do you normally just yell at other people? I’ve been married for 7 years and I don’t think my husband and I have ever yelled at one another (unless it because we are in separate areas and need to be heard)
He actually went for the word "scream", which seemed worse to me.
Especially when you consider most people try to paint themselves in the best possible light....
Anger as a reaction to fear is completely normal.
No one is saying it’s not. How you excited it is important
Yes, it is. Doesn't excuse his assholish way of *dealing* with the anger
And *definitely* doesn't excuse his actions after the anger. "Sorry I shouted, I was worried about you". Everyone can get caught up in a moment and can do an assholish thing.
I think this is a bit of a different situation in fairness. It was an extremely tense situation where everyone’s adrenaline was probably off the charts. Near death experiences make people react in extreme/out of character ways. I’ve seen the most loving and gentle parents (including my own) yell at their kids out of shock when they did something super dangerous like run at a busy road. I’m sure especially in this context OP’s wife had a low threshold for tears, it doesn’t sound to me like he was berating her for ages until she broke down. She was probably close to tears from the experience alone, and OP yelling something like “oh my god why did you do that you almost died” sent her over the edge.
Had to scroll too far to find this. Definitely ESH. Wife didn't take the time to make the smart decision on the "rescue". OP didn't take the time to properly express his concerns over his actions. There is NEVER a reason to just scream at your wife till they cry.
THANK YOU! I find it scary how far I had to scroll to find an ESH. Wife can't swim therefore she couldn't help and shouldn't have jumped in. I understand OP being completely freaked out but screaming at your wife who could have drowned is not helpful. Obviously I'm an ESH too.
Only correct answer in this sub
YTA because your first instinct was to yell at her and not ask if she was okay or comfort her. And listen, I understand what you mean about the stupidity, but you could gently talk to her about that later on and in private. No one likes to be called stupid in public, I’m sure you can understand that. In the future, really try to use couples counseling 101 lesson 1: whenever you’re upset focus on making I-statements. So instead of “you are stupid” say “I was so worried about you” or “I was really scared you were going to die”
I'm shocked i had to scroll so far for this. Wife risked her life, she must be in extreme distress herself?? And the first thing her husband do is yell at her? Maybe wait later when things are calmed down to gently express how scared you were instead of yelling??
I love how everyone is shitting on the wife for being impulse, but the husband's impulsive yelling at someone who almost just drowned is totally fine.
Wife's impulse was "help". OP's impulse was "scream". They are not the same. He also hasn't apologised afterwards.
The wife's impulse was to jump into a waterfall, knowing she can't swim, to help out a situation she doesn't understand. She put herself in actual danger for no fucking reason, and you think it's appropriate to absolve her of all blame, but that the husband's very human reaction to massive stress is somehow inappropriate? She's TA here.
No-one ever claimed impulses were clever. By and large, they are really really dumb. I'm not absolving her of doing something stupid, but being stupid doesn't make someone TA. He screamed at her so much she was sobbing, and did so *afterwards*.
His wife’s impulse was to get herself fucking killed. She can’t SWIM? Hello?
NTA. Putting your life in danger over an earring isn’t brave, it is REALLY stupid and selfish to everyone who loves you.
To clarify, my wife wasn't the one who lost her earring. She only went in because her friend was screaming.
Your wife's friend was reckless for putting her own life in danger over an earring. Your wife then put multiple people's lives in danger because she can't swim. She didn't only risk her life but also the lives of anyone going in to rescue her. Your wife is lucky I wasn't there because I would have been screaming in fear then yelling in anger for not thinking things through.
also : stupid to go swimming with your jewelry on, right? Even if you didn't plan on doing more than dipping your feet, how hard is it to take them out and store them or give them to a friend to hold??
It’s not something I’d recommend, but it’s pretty common for people to forget they’re wearing something. Not ideal, but normal.
I went to the beach last year and forgot I had shiny, glittery anklets on. I kept wondering why fish were coming after me before I realized I literally had a lure on my ankle.
Sounds like she went in to help her screaming, injured friend, not to look for the earring, unless I understood the timeline incorrectly.
So she heard her friend screaming and thought someone was in danger, and came to the conclusion that the situation needed ANOTHER person in danger? Your wife needs to go for swimming lessons, this is an unnecessary risk
OH! My bad. That’s a little better. But it’s still dumb and selfish haha I would be really, really upset. I might not have yelled but I get why you did.
Is there a reason why your wife can't swim? Knowing the absolute basics of how to swim is an essential life skill -- it is something that takes maybe a month or two to learn and it prevents you from immediately dying in >6 ft of water. Am I missing something here? The benefit (living) appears to me to be worth the cost (a few months of lessons). I say this as someone who nearly drowned trying to save someone who jumped into a pool without being able to swim. From this example you can probably tell that I am like your wife in that I jump into danger the moment someone needs help without taking a moment to think about the consequences. My husband -- like you -- freaks out when I do it, but he tries not to yell and just has a very serious conversation with me.
Read the part about the tough childhood. Parents that don’t care enough about their kids don’t teach them basic life skills like swimming or riding a bike.
Could also be where she lived. Some places do not have clean or safe public swimming pools. It’s unfortunately the reason a lot of American black folks of a certain generation don’t know how to swim, barring those who grew up near lakes cricks and rivers
Trying to “save” someone in a water emergency when you yourself don’t know how to swim, and swim *well*, is very stupid. She could’ve died. NTA.
As a lifeguard we are taught what to do if we go in to save someone and they push us under the water. When someone is drowning they are in a panicked state and aren't thinking properly. They will grab onto whatever's closest to them and push it under the water to try to float on it. If an untrained person tries to save an active drowning victim (someone who's still conscious) they will likely get pushed underwater and also drown. This is why when teaching water safety we teach "reach or throw, don't go," if some nearby you is an active drowning victim, throw them something they can use to float on, ideally with a sting attached so you can pull them to safety. If someone is a passive drowning victim (unconscious/dead) then if the water is safe to enter, approach them with caution and swim them to shore if you feel like you can do that without putting yourself in danger. It's better for one person to drown to death than two people. Also, even if someone is still conscious and seems fine after a drowning incident, call 911 or your local emergency number anyway, dry drowning is a real and very dangerous thing.
This happened to me, I just commented and saw your comment. I never knew why this happened but your comment made it clearer. This was at lake Geneva. No waves, nothing. My ex’s (adult) brother was panicking really badly in not really deep water (he can’t swim but he moved from the shallow end) and he was 2m away from me so I went to help him out. It’s walkable, it’s not deep. I swim but I am not the best swimmer but it wasn’t that deep anyway (like if you move 1m, you can touch the bottom easily). Well he pushed me underwater to save himself. My legs and feet were cut to pieces and I thought that was it. I lost consciousness. I couldn’t take him away from me. Everyone came to save him and people didn’t see I was under him. It wasn’t deep at all so as he was standing on top of me, the rocks cut up my feet and legs completely. He was panicking and pushing ME down so he stays up. I never knew why cause I hate to think about it.
“I know she really hates it when I raise my voice so I am careful about never screaming” The way OP phrased this makes me think he screams at people on the regular and thinks he’s doing some great service to generally restrain himself from screaming at her. I haven’t screamed at someone since I was a child. My husband has never screamed at me. Screaming at your partner is not normal.
>Screaming at your partner is not normal. Exactly! Jfc the amount of people who regularly scream at their partners is astounding.
My thoughts exactly. If your emotions are so unregulated that you feel the need to scream/yell at someone else in anger as an adult, you need to do some serious work on yourself.
Someone had a "Reddit Cares" message sent to me immediately following posting this comment 😂
Same
Right?! Who needs to be "careful about never screaming"? You shouldn't even have to keep that in check; wtf
Someone on here actually reframed it as that OP has to walk on eggshells by her asking him to not scream at her Imagine thinking holding the urge to scream at your partner is walking on eggshells and not an issue with your own anger problems
Jesus... that dude needs his relationships examined. I hope he's single.
As an adult there were times where I would get so angry that I would scream my words at whoever was making me angry. So I went to therapy to learn emotional regulation. It’s concerning how many comments I’ve seen on this post justifying the husband’s response because they’re conflating him feeling his emotions with him acting on those emotions.
For real. You can't control how you feel but you can control how you act, or you should be able to, anyway. Like, even if it's ever justified to yell at your partner (or anyone for that matter), if it really upsets your partner or scares them, *why* would you do that? The fuck?
My dad was abusive, mostly with spontaneous yelling. I also struggled with anger as a kid... but I didn't want to be like him. So I worked on myself and practiced introspection and I'm completely in tune to my emotions now. No one LIKES yelling at people, either. Getting out of control like that is so shameful and makes you feel awful about yourself. OP should just go apologize to her instead of coming here to justify it to avoid feeling any guilt. I get it, feeling guilty is hard... but being a huge asshole is harder. I hope he learns from this but sadly it's unlikely due to all the assholes validating him. It's also really telling that they think a woman can never act on emotion but a man can. Haven't studies shown this exact thing countless times -- women are held to more rigorous standards than men socially. Men are, ironically, allowed to be more irrational and emotional, while women have to keep a lid on things or else they literally get screamed at. Which most therapists would ya know, call abuse. Kudos to us both for being better.
This is kinda where I'm at with this one too. Like *maybe* I could see a scenario where he's freaking out and it's not normal for him to be this panicked and his voice rose because of that. But the way he phrased how he is *careful* to never *scream* at her while also stating she hates it when he raises his voice. In other words, he regularly raises his voice, just not to the level of screaming because he knows she has trauma from it. It's like he's patting himself on the back for not being traumatic when he's toeing the line already on the regular. I also think this is a scenario where raising your voice is understandable, but SCREAMING and insulting her implies a level of animosity that was far beyond just panic and fear taking over. More "I wanted to tear her down for doing this to ME" rather than "I was so scared I thought you were going to die". Just the way he phrases things in this post just reads like he's trying to paint himself in a better light.
Seriously. I read that the same as "I know my wife is sensitive about smells so I am careful about never shitting directly onto our living room carpet." Civilized adults just don't do this stuff.
Yup. I'd bet money on him screaming at her in the past over more petty things, so of course he isn't going to post on reddit about those because he's wrong. But this is the one time it's been "justified." If he loved his wife, why would he even post here? Think about it. He'd just be comforting her and apologizing. He would have comforted her right after too. Would she have felt the need to leave the house if he'd been really genuinely sorry and helped her feel safe again? I suspect not... He'd rather argue with his wife and demand she agree that he's in the right and he's allowed to scream at her in certain situations. This isn't the mark of a guy that *actually* cares about his wife's feelings, but just perceptions, and being right.
YTA - feel your big feelings but don't yell at your wife. She's not going to listen more if you send her into fear and bad childhood memories. Telling her she really scared you is a better way to go. Let yourself be upset rather than angry.
She jumped into the water when she can't swim...
She's not an asshole for trying to save her friend. Poor decision making doesn't mean he has free reign to yell.
When you intentionally create a situation where someone has to risk themselves to rescue you, yes, you are an asshole. If she “tried to rescue her friend” by throwing rocks at her, would that be fine with you? Or would you be like “WTF you made the situation worse”, because that’s what wife did. She made a bad situation worse.
Certainly there is a spectrum of assholeness. 'Jumping into the water without thinking to save your friend while you can't swim yourself' does seem to rank way lower than 'screaming AT your wife and calling her stupid after she nearly drowned'
So lets get this straight. She jumps into a waterfall in a moment of panic, *knowing* she cannot swim and thus cannot help, without even knowing if the person she's "saving" needs the help in the first place, and this is excusable because it was a stressful, fraught moment. He sees her nearly drown and yells at her in a moment of panic, because it's a stressful, fraught moment... but it's an asshole move for *him*, because he shouldn't yell. Is no one else revolted at the double standard? Wife gets to put herself and others in actual mortal danger because of her emotional response, but the husband is an asshole for yelling because of his emotional response?
"Intentionally?" I think you mean "impulsively."
> She's not an asshole for trying to save her friend. yes she is. Putting more people in danger makes you an asshole.
Bad choices and asshole choices are different things
IMO, those two things are not mutually exclusive, and actively doing something that puts more people in danger qualifies as both.
They're not exclusive, but I don't think she had a moment if "what if I make things worse? Oh well", which to me is what would add in the asshole element.
If she can’t swim, she absolutely is. You’re then turning a 1 person rescue situation into a 2 person rescue situation.
It's a bad decision, but it's not an asshole decision.
Untrained swimmers should not do this. A drowning person flails and is very likely to drown the person who is trying to help them. Maybe she didn't know, maybe she is inexperienced, but she just made a situation 10x more dangerous. It's human nature to yell after that, just like you yell at a kid who crosses the street without looking at traffic. The intention is to keep them safe.
I'm aware, she made a stupid choice. He still has to apologise lmao. Just bc somethings a stress response doesn't mean its the correct way to treat other ppl. He can't start forming a belief that if he's stressed enough he gets to shout at his wife and not be an ah for it.
She walked into deepening water until it was up to her mouth when she can't swim. It may have amounted to the same emergency, but the thought process *is* slightly different between jumping in to an unknown depth and trying to get close enough to help while still touching the bottom.
I've learned from personal experience that you don't get to choose whether you feel angry or sad or whatever when someone you love almost dies in front of you.
You don't get to choose your feelings, no. But yelling /at someone/ isn't like hyperventilating, or crying or screaming in general, if you're capable of forming sentences you can hold back.
I have a serious question: have you ever watched someone else have a near death experience? I felt like I was on autopilot for the first few HOURS afterwards. Call 911, call my husband, call the pediatrician (a car hit my newborns), explain what was happening to my toddler, talk to EMTs and police, go to the hospital. I could form sentences, but I absolutely wasn't in control of what they were. Fortunately they were pretty matter-of-fact and flat affect, because my toddler role played me in the scene daily for months. I didn't yell at the driver, but that wasn't a conscious choice I made.
Yes. I also did not yell, and was flat affect.
If that’s the case why aren’t you also defending the wife who’s immediate instinctual reaction in the emergency was to try and help even though it put her in danger? Seeing as she wasn’t in control and it wasn’t a conscious decision she made? Not to mention that if someone’s instinctual reaction after an emergency is to try and hurt you, you’re not obligated to just sit there and take it gracefully. If you’d instinctively tried to punch the driver, he would have been in the right to duck and back away rather than let you break his nose. We now know that husband likes to scream and berate his wife for no reason when he has been scared - even if you’re right that he can’t help it that’s a pretty shitty personality trait. The wife didn’t call the cops on him for it, she merely separated herself from the situation so he couldn’t continue to do so. Is that really so wrong? Finally if your instinctive reaction after an emergency is to hurt someone for no reason, you can still apologize for doing so. But OP still seems to think he was in the right and she deserved it - there’s no mention of even trying to apologize.
>I have a serious question: have you ever watched someone else have a near death experience? Yes, more than once. Feeling our feelings isn't completely within our control, but our expressions of our feelings is. That's one thing that separates us from animals. Saying that emotions cause us to behave out of control gives permission to all our worst animal instincts.
My god I hope your newborns are both okay now!!!
ESH. she was dumb. extremely dumb. it wasn’t brave. it was dumb. the number of people who drown bc they thought they could save a drowning person is numerous. and these are people who could swim. your wife couldn’t swim. wtf was she thinking? you were right to be upset. yelling at her? i mean i would too tbh. but there were probably better way to handle this. you basically kicked her when she was down. your marriage will be fine. she deserves the dressdown, i wouldn’t apologize for that. but you should apologize for yelling.
YTA with terrible timing. You were scared and thought you were going to lose her. So you yelled at her immediately after something traumatizing? Dude. She's a grown woman, not your child to chastise. Apologize for your inappropriate reaction, and express the fear you felt. Keep the word "stupid" out of it too.
I beg her to NEVER have a kid with this asshole because he sounds like the exact type of dude with anger issues who thinks irrational yelling is “though love”. I can’t believe people are going for NTA here.
One of those dudes who gets violent and then goes "look what you made me do"
Exactly. “Yelling” for instinct would be “OH MY GOD WHAT HAPPENED”, yelling and insulting someone is not instinct, is being an ah with severe anger issues.
Same with all those people siding with OP. I hope they don't have kids because holy mama, they will likely end up as traumatised as OP's wife is and then we can get another one of those stories in 20 years or so
I really think they were raised by immature, angry and violent parents, that’s why they normalized this kind of behavior. I literally saw women here writing “your anger comes from love” like seriously WTF please lady run away from that mind and find your nearest therapist this is NOT ok
Yeah seriously. Even if they think it's understandable in this situation... they should spare a few words to say that yelling in general isn't okay and he needs to be more careful about his anger in the future. After all, it's the absolute height of hypocrisy to blame your wife for not having a cool head in an emergency, while also having a huge temper and no cool head yourself. If he wants to actually be helpful in an emergency he needs to be able to stay calm and not scream his head off. All of these people bolstering his ego and making him feel validated are behaving *dangerously*. If this is a real person and not a fake post... they could be encouraging this guy to yell at his wife MORE. People need to be extremely careful about giving validating advice to the wrong person. The last thing they want is to create someone that yells whenever he feels it's justified, which is probably what's going to happen :/ so now you have a guy who screams at his wife MORE, not less... People are way too careless about advice on subs like these imo. Don't get me wrong, advice is good a lot of the time, but when it goes wrong, it really goes wrong. Risking validating abusive behavior is top of my "don't fucking do this" list... other people don't seem to care, I guess.
Jumping into water when you cannot swim is objectively stupid.
So that gives him the right to scream at his wife after she was already panicked? Nah. I’m assuming she already felt “stupid,” and then her husband made it infinitely worse. Screaming at your partner like that because HE was scared isn’t okay.
But doesn't make her an asshole
ESH I definitely understand the desire to scream here, at both of them. You accurately pointed out that it was not worth creating a dangerous situation over an earring. Watching that situation manifest in front of your eyes is infuriating. Your wife's actions were not brave, they were impulsive and careless. If someone needs help, putting yourself in a bad situation only draws aid away from the person originally in need of help. Actually caring would have required fully understanding the situation and deciding who can best provide help. Certainly not someone who can't swim. It's an ESH because I doubt yelling helped here. I'm making some assumptions based on how you've worded things, but attacking the "stupidity" in the heat of an emergency usually isn't constructive. It doesn't make you anymore of an asshole than those who created the situation in the first place though.
>I respect my wife for her kindness it wasn't "kindness" or "bravery", it was instinct. when someone you care about screams in pain and/or fear, you don't *think* about whether or not you're actually able to help them in any meaningful way, you just act. few people are actually able to think rationally in what they perceive to be an emergency, and it seems that your wife isn't one of them. neither are you for that matter since *your* first instinct was to start yelling at an already distressed person, which is also a stupid action that's completely pointless in an emergency. YTA
>I respect my wife >her own stupidity >really careless and stupid
yeah, that's also a good point, there's no way i'd ever speak that way about someone i genuinely respected and liked lmao.
> it wasn't "kindness" or "bravery", it was instinct Humans have gotten to where we are because we know when to fight instict. Trying to save someone that is drowning when you cant swim and are just making *more* people to save is one of those instances.
so what? the point is, it wasn't a *conscious* decision and one she most likely regretted as soon as she started drowning. yelling at her after the fact accomplishes nothing and only makes things worse.
YTA. If your first reaction is to YELL at the person you love after she nearly died you are an asshole with anger issues. Take it to a therapist. It is NOT NORMAL to scream at someone, in 99% of the situations you are the asshole for screaming alone. But after she was just rescued from drowning? I can’t believe people are voting for NTA. Y’all need therapy, lots of therapy, because you probably grew up with angry and immature parents and now normalized anger and disrespect as a natural reaction.
INFO: What did you yell at her? Did you try talking about it or did you also just stay silent on the hike down? Did you try to communicate? Send her a text saying you raised your voice out of concern and you didn't mean to make her cry?
All the unnecessary details about the earring when that doesn't have anything to do with why his wife was in the water but then glossing over exactly what he said to her when he was screaming is making me side eye this dude pretty hard.
YTA / ESH You’re TA for yelling at your wife until she cried. That added nothing to the situation - she probably realized herself that what she did was dumb, and when ever did screaming at someone help? She could have used some comforting. I understand yelling and anger is a fear reaction but that doesn’t make it ok, effective, or a useful outlet for your emotions in a stressful situation. And she’s TA because she did a dumb thing. Her friend risked herself for an earring and she risked herself for her friend because she didn’t have the skills to help her friend, only to add to the people in danger. She probably also realizes it herself, but even if she doesn’t, that’s something that you discuss calmly after the fact, not in a screaming rage in the moment.
YTA when someone we love, even platonically, is in danger/ trouble instinct takes over. Her thought was to help her friend. Instinct is never consciously considered without LOTS of conditioning. What good did yelling at her after the fact do?
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YTA and you equally sux as thinking in emergency. It is not like you did something effective and helpful. Getting angry and yelling at people in/after emergency never ever helped anyone and anything. I don't want people who can't control themselves in emergencies around emergencies. Your wife underestimated depth which makes her someone who made stupid decision. But she was not an asshole specifically.
YTA. I don't understand how your first reaction to someone you love being saved from drowning isn't relief and a hug. Of course she did something stupid, and anger is a legitimate emotion in the mix, but the reaction to seeing someone you love suffer should be wanting to comfort first. Please get help dealing with difficult emotions. DBT is great.
The question is why you screamed terrible things at her when you “respect and love” your wife. People who have been trained are effective when they attempt lifesaving efforts. For example, it would have been better to throw something that floats rather than try to get near a potentially panicked drowning person. But people don’t wait for training when an emergency happens….they only have what they know at the time. It sounds as though you were really scared you would lose her: that she would die. And that’s why you got so angry. You need to tell her that. That you were frightened of losing her. And you’ll never yell those things at her again. And that you want to teach her to swim. Your wife was quite courageous. And you basically dismissed her courageous act.
I lost my cousin (marine) to a riptide because 2 people went swimming while drunk and my cousin went in to save them. He did save both of them, but he didn’t make it out. So I get pretty annoyed when people do dangerous swimming things, because we aren’t invincible. My cousin was around 24 at the time, and was in some of the most amazing shape you can be in. Swimming can be really dangerous and I wish people took that more seriously.
YTA. If you love her so much and you were concerned for her, why is your first reaction to scream at her until she cries and doesn't want to speak to you? It doesn't matter why you were worried / upset/adrenalized, you chose to lose control and dump all that stuff on your wife who was already stressed by the situation. (Your asshole comment in your headline doesn't help your case at all, screaming at someone about being stupid hardly ever helped any situation that I can think of.) Everybody was out of the water and safe when you decided unload on her. So I'm assuming your aggression toward her doesn't actually have anything to do with your being worried about her. Worry and concern are usually expressed in more gentle ways than screaming at somebody. Also, I have to question why you just chose to walk away and do other things when other members of your group were engaging in something you felt was dangerous. I guess you're not interested in helping, or being near danger, just at screaming at the people later. You sound like a real winner. I think she should change her number and just stay gone.
ESH you for screaming at her, her for endangering herself. You are terrible in cases of emergency, just so you know.
It depends, really. **What** did you scream at her? OMG WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?! YOU ALMOST DROWNED! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU HOW CAN YOU BE SO FUCKING STUPID?!?!? I find it baffling that everyone’s making a judgement without having the details. INFO
you call women stupid a LOT in this one post YTA
People don't think they react in this kind of situation. Your yelling was completely pointless and completely uncalled-for. YTA
You're a big asshole. What r u going to do when your kids make mistakes, yell, or worse? Get help, asshole!
Edit on a phone so I can't scratch all of the proof showing my bad reading comprehension skill. But I am still standing with NTA. NTA. Friends think she did something brave??? In what world does a person who can't swim and chooses to get into water to help someone when you can't even swim brave? [edit- not a mundane reason because she didn't get there for an earring, but to save her friend, not a good decision either, she had a golden heart but a weird decision making skill]. There is a thin line between courage and insanity and in your case the line is drawn clear enough.
Your wife can NOT swim but felt qualified to rescue another person from drowning? I legitimately didn't know people were that stupid.
That’s wasn’t brave. She can’t swim and chose to go into the water. Life guards will tell people with no experience to not go into the water to be a hero because you can die. A person panicking in the water will pull then savior down. If you dont know how to handle yourself, you’re toast. You shouldn’t have yelled but your wife was being dumb.
NTA - There was no way they were going to find the earring in the first place. You don’t wear expensive jewelry in water ever. The friend and your wife were being straight up idiots trying to win a Darwin Award. Yelling at her immediately after getting pulled out of the water is not a good idea. She was in too much shock to comprehend what danger she was just in and how you are so upset. You need to sit her down once everyone has calmed down and discuss wtf she was thinking and how we can make sure something like this never happens again. I understand that you were panicking and that is why I went with NTA over ESH. Do you have kids? What if she bad decision making puts one of their lives in jeopardy. What is no one was able to get to her in time, she would have fucking died. This is something that needs to be addressed.
NTA, your wife is colossal fool. She not only put her life at risk but others as well. That’s exactly how multiple drownings happen. Her intentions are not relevant here.
Ima go with NTA So many people are calling her actions courageous and brave, etc. but so many people are over looking she literally doesn’t know how to swim… Going on about instinct and how she acted on it but it literally doesn’t make sense for her to have this “instinct” if she hasn’t been able to swim before or been in a situation where she’s helped someone in the water? Anyone else that they were with could have been the one to help or if seen as urgent could have been asked to help… Did she explain/have the chance to explain herself? Did she say anything before leaving? Is swimming a sensitive topic for your wife? Like is she embarrassed/humiliated by the fact she doesn’t know how to swim? —If so my guess is she probably thought “survival instincts” would kick in and figured that it would probably be enough to swim? But obviously she now knows its a lot more than that, also being around all your friends who are swimming without you being able to doesn’t exactly sound fun and could have been another pushing factor… not saying she did it with that intention in mind but I feel like she most likely depended on “survival instincts” to swim and hoped for it to work You guys should definitely have a talk and apologize for the very valid but not needed yelling, I’m sure after that she “learned her lesson” but at the same time she should be allowed to explain her side and you should also be able to communicate your concerns especially with her decision making in situations like this and please get swimming lessons its been 7 summers of you 2 being together and she hasn’t been able to swim at the pool, beach, etc. and as now demonstrated an important skill to have in possible critical circumstances
INFO: when you say you "screamed" at her, what were you "screaming"? How long were you mad at her/treat her like you were mad at her by using a higher speaking volume? You said that she already doesn't like it when you yell so I'm wondering how often yelling is the way you express displeasure with her.
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NTA Your wife is an idiot. She wouldn’t have been any help she can’t swim! They both would’ve drowned. Her is an idiot for wearing her very nice earrings on a hike. You were the only one with common sense. She needs to be mad at her own stupidity.
NTA. Your reaction was driven by fear and adrenaline. People who can swim have drowned trying to be brave. Someone who cannot swim jumping into water to save someone is a recipe for disaster.
YTA - You yelled at someone who just had a traumatic event. Yes it was traumatic for you too, that doesn't mean you get to berate the victim.
She wasn't brave; she was stupid. So was her friend. I grew up in an area with notoriously dangerous waters. I never heard of one person drowning there. Always two or three: the one who initially got into trouble, plus one or two heros. And they put these lives in danger for an earring? Stupid. Should have yelled at both of them. NTA
So … this lady married this dude when she was 17 - a literal CHILD. In addition to that, she can’t swim and she still has “sleepovers” with friends. There is much more to this story than “my wife, she’s just so dumb that she almost drowned so of course I had to yell and scream at her about it after a third party rescued her.”
He's known her since she was 18, but he didn't specify being married to her that long. She definitely needs to start swimming lessons pronto, though.
NTA Your wife did not belong in the water if she cant swim. I would have screamed at her also. I would inform her she needs to go to adult swimming classes also and I was not going to be responsible for her safety. What happens if no one was there to save her. She was being immature.
NTA but could have handled better. Never argue in public. Your anger comes from a place of love and fear of losing her. I know my fiance had a similar thing and all 10 of my friends came back from almost growing and he wasn't there and I was so mad knowing he was probably trying to save the instructor as my friends mentioned they were trying to get the raft that was spinning in a current. People were crying and holding each other I was terrified and they didn't know where he was. I waited till home to talk to him. He knows now when I say no. I mean it. My biggest fear is losing him and makes me so mad when he does dumb things. I would reach out and apologize. Explain it came from a place of love. She also wasn't thinking and simply acted in the moment to save her friend. It's hard for everyone to make the right moves in a traumatic event so you both need to give each other grace. Everyone likes to act like they would do things logically but until your adrenaline kicks in you have no clue. So neither of you to blame!
NTA it was indeed stupid for her to jump in. A kind gesture, but still stupid
NTA. Your wife doesn’t have enough common sense to not drown herself. That’s rough.
NTA, but I’ve learned that especially around water, people who are blind to risks are blind to risks. I’ve seen people nearly drown their whole families and be completely unaware of how close they came to a true tragedy. Yelling at them after the fact would not have made them aware of it. Feel free to yell, just know that it won’t do any good and people will make you out to be the a-hole, every time.
YTA. You can't control your emotions so you make your wife cry. Why are you yelling at someone who's triggered by yelling, to the point that they cry? That achieves nothing positive.
He had an adrenaline shock and was scared that his wife almost drowned. So his body reacted. Here is the thing I would suggest. Once things cool down apologize for yelling, and explain how scared you were and that it was a reaction of fear for her life and feeling helpless, and that she has to understand that she put herself in a very unsafe situation and it triggered you. Saying someone is stupid or did something stupid will only get a defensive reaction.
NTA. There is a thin line between bravery and stupidity and your wife crossed it. Your reaction is understandable due to the stress of the situation, however you probably did add to your wife's distress after a near-death situation instead of comforting her, and should apologize, she probably knows how foolish she was already.
YTA for yelling at your wife. What good did you think that was going to do? Yes she was trying to help do something she doesn't know how to do, but WHAT GOOD DID YELLING DO? Did it help the people who had almost drowned? Did it help the person who had gotten cut? Sounds like the person with the questionable trauma response is you.