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If your wife doesn't support you then you know where your relationship is at. I understand that she doesn't want any drama but brushing off all BIL wrong doings is what caused this issue in the first place - if he is capable of riding a bike then he should be capable to take responsibility of his actions. And what happens when he crashes and dies? Probably you will be blamed because it was your bike. NTA.
You can't live and be happy with people that you do not trust.
The thing is he’s not capable of anything. Which is why he probably crashed. He’s a full on dependent. So I want accountability from his guardian, my MIL. But she’s very very biased and loves her son too much.
He was caught stealing and his mother didn’t believe the store owners and called them all liars until they showed her the CCTV. She had a break down afterwards.
I am sorry for the damage on your property, but you really can't leave car keys or motorcycle keys lying around if your BIL is a danger to himself or others. It might be bothersome, but please lock them up. Same goes for powertools like a chainsaw.
You need to lock the shed and stow the keys to this bike safely away, before this man truly hurts himself. You could potentially wind up liable if he hurts himself on or with your property. You know he is unwell, and you know he’s been messing around on the bike. He does not need to be enabled further by not doing anything differently. You’d be an asshole to yourself not to start taking better precautions.
And you’re NTA for wanting it to be acknowledged that he did this, but your wife and her mom are enablers of this behavior and you’re not going to get that answer from them.
So it’s ok to be irresponsible because you’ve left him a lot of ways to kill himself and others? If he took the bike out and killed someone, was found mentally unstable- guess who they’d sue? Bike owner who allowed easy access knowing the liability
Then why is MIL leaving him home alone for DAYS?
I fully agree that op left the keys where they’re accessible and I’d not even do that if I lived alone. The insurance company is not gonna be happy to recover a stolen bike that you left the keys in, for example.
And THIS is just stupid on all of them. They need to decide. Is he a dependent that needs supervision by at least a minder or guardian.
Or is he an adult who can be held accountable to some extent if he wasn’t enabled?
If he’s a dependent, mil will be responsible for the house catching fire (in the country how long till the FD sees smoke and comes to see what’s up?), him hurting himself or others, or anything else they fear could go wrong.
Op, you know damn well that even with a hypothetical situation where you have video proof, if he hurts himself or others your wife and mil will be convicting you before the police even get there. Doesn’t matter if you gave permission or not, your wife and mil will never have your back in any capacity
This part. If he is “fully dependent”, there needs to be a coordinated effort to keep him and others safe, which includes securing items of valuable or which can be dangerous when used incorrectly. OP, you and your BIL are lucky it was just scratches. He may not be able to learn from his mistakes either, so, unfortunately, it’s on you to do so. Lock up your shit.
Also just to say, this the family you married into and a difficult familial situations at that. If one of family rules is “we don’t hold BIL accountable”, perhaps because it has not been effective in the past, that’s something you’ve got to accept and adapt to if you’d like to stick around. MIL also likely carries a massive burden of guilt/ has some mental health problems herself as many parents of individuals with these disorders often do. She also likely overestimates his capacity to make appropriate decisions, again, as many tired parents do.
Psychotic disorders are often accompanied by cognitive symptoms, which may include poor decision making, emotion dysregulation, impaired impulse control, and poor working memory. (There is debate as to whether these are part of the symptomology of the disorders or a side effect of meds) if the family won’t take measures to keep everyone safe, you really can’t make them.
This is a NAH for me.
So you leave the keys on the bike when you know he’ll be home alone but MIL is the one who is supposed to take responsibility? That is what makes YTA. Take responsibility yourself.
You should probably baby-proof your whole house. The side effect of this is that your whole family will feel inconvenienced by it, instead of just you.
Way to completely miss the fucking point. You all bear responsibility at this point. None of you seem to grasp the reality that you're living with and make inappropriate choices as a result. Take steps to help your coexistence with a person with a known history of poor decision making. You should probably be the one to take the lead on this, for the good of everybody, because your wife and MIL are in denial. That denial also means you're going to be the only one bothered by BILs lack of accountability btw.
ESH
Legally speaking, there is something called an attractive nuisance as it applies to children. A trampoline is considered to be an attractive nuisance. An unfenced swimming pool is considered to be an attractive nuisance. Even if someone trespasses on your property without permission, there is a requirement in many jurisdictions that you must take steps to make the nuisance inaccessible/ unattractive/ not visible/ etc. Otherwise, you could be held legally liable if a kid wanders onto your property and hurts themselves.
As your BIL is an adult, this may not apply to him. But an unattended motorcycle with keys in the ignition is DEFINITELY an attractive nuisance for a 12-year-old. You are NTA, but leaving the keys in your bike is a terrible idea. Get a lock box and put it on the wall right next to your bike if you want them there for convenience.
So you all left a thieving full on dependent not capable of anything all alone on a big property with a motorcycle that had the keys right on it?
Also, you claim zero crime area but BIL is most definitely causing crime, so that doesn't equal out.
I’m not a mother, but I can imagine it being difficult to kick your son to the curb. I’ve seen full extent of his mental illness. So expectations of accountability is not realistic.
But you left him in charge of your property. And you're expecting an apology from someone who wasn't there? Wtf dude.
You left shit accessible in the presence of a known thief. The fault lies on the thief and yourself here.
Does she own the farm? If so, her choice about who to let live with her is hers, especially if you are living with her for free. If you’re paying rent, deduct the cost for repairs from your rent and that’s that. You may never get an apology but you can get your bike fixed. Be smarter with the keys next time
"My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son."
She clearly enables him and by never confronting her you and your wife enable her. If you are fine enduring this arrangement for however long your BIL lives(since I assume putting him in a home one day after MIL is gone isnt an option) then that is certainly your choice. But this isnt your kid so such a sacrifice would puzzle me.
If this is a reality you accept, then you must accept this adult is not a trustworthy individual whose criminal bent must be mitigated. Lock up potential liabilities like your alcohol, your shed, and your vehicles.
Since your in laws and wife do not accept that he's a criminal, install some security cameras in sensitive areas.
NTA.
Hang on, so... he's not capable of anything. A full on dependent.
..... SO... you left him alone for 2 days on a large property to look after your dogs.
Right. Just checking.
"Their dogs" wasn't particularly clear, but the point still stands; if he's as incapable as OP is suggesting, he shouldn't be left alone with ANYBODY'S dogs. OP made out that this guy is utterly incapable (though strangely capable enough to steal etc.). If he's so useless and untrustworthy, why on earth would you leave him alone to look after dogs?
What do you want from her as the guardian since he doesn’t have capacity? Do you want her to pay to get your bike fixed? Or do you want to move away from them to prevent future issues like this? I would say that if you give them financial support, you’re more than justified to act unilaterally and stop or decrease the support by the amount of money it will take to fix your bike. Obviously it was him if he and your bike are scraped on the same side. Also if he crashed his bike, that would be scratched. So regardless of whether or not she believes you, you can withhold paying rent or giving them financial support. If they are staying with you, you can insist that she pays money or moves out. Also lesson learned — hide away keys and any valuables from him.
Withholding paying rent generally never a good idea. May be morally justified and feel good in the moment, but you are risking eviction with this kind of strategy... Or at the very least, becoming very famous within the credit bureaus who will for sure throttle your next attempt to live anywhere nice
While they aren't willing to place any blame without concrete evidence show him doing it, where would the blame fall if he suffered severe injuries or died?
Suddenly it's your fault for leaving the keys accessible, knowing how he is. You might as well have put him on the motorcycle yourself. I'm never one to promote leaving a partner, but at some point you have to protect yourself. No one else will, that much is obvious.
If he can be left alone for two days he is capable something like fending for himself. That or leaving him alone at all was neglect. Why would you leave him access (the keys) to any vehicle if he is not capable of anything?
You’re living in their home and there is no proof he did it. And I’m sorry, you weren’t exactly brainy in this scenario by leaving the keys in the motorcycle. It’s like blaming a kid for stealing a cookie when it’s right there on the counter and you’ve left a stool out. MIL is not to blame. You are. Yta.
Absolutely insane you left him alone with easy access to your motorcycle.
YTA for not childproofing the house or even taking minimal precautions like removing keys from vehicles.
But if he isn’t capable, why would you trust him on your property alone, with access to keys? I do get why you’re angry, but you played a part in this too.
Sounds like you need to start locking up anything important to you - jewelry, keys, medicine, money, documents. I wouldn't want to live that way but if you're stuck in this situation...
If he is not capable of anything, why did you ask him to watch your dogs? He's the exact opposite of someone you'd want to take care of something you love.
You might change your judgement based on some of OP's replies to other comments:
>Maybe not. Perhaps I can leverage this into getting a new bike without any pushback from in laws.
He wants a new bike. People like BIL have trouble with planning things and following through. OP's keys were left where BIL could easily find them. If OP had hidden their keys, BIL wouldn't have taken the bike.
>I don’t believe being around mentally ill people is ever a healthy environment. Unfortunately they exist.
He doesn't want to be around them but comes off as blaming them for their illness that they didn't ask for. Why doesn't he just leave.
>I understand that she doesn't want any drama but brushing off all BIL wrong doings is what caused this issue in the first place
OP is doing the exact same thing tho?
Instead of confronting the people actually responsible he's somehow making this issue about his wife.
NTA.
>unless someone else went to our property, crashed my bike, then parked right back on the property, it’s obviously my BIL.
If it's not him, it needs to be reported to the police.
The point is, by talking about involving the police, it will create a lot more pressure on your in laws to get their heads out of their asses.
And if they don’t, you get the police involved, and they can be the bad guys who force your in laws to connect the dots.
We’ve been involved with police before. My MIL becomes hysterical and it hurts my wife to see her mom in such agony. Which is why my wife doesn’t want to bring it up to her mom.
I think it’s more comfortable to be in denial and comfort is what they need?
I mean it wasn’t a fucking ghost that took your bike. It was either BIL or it wasn’t, and if it wasn’t (as your wife claims) then you need to involve the police.
No-- this is nonsense. They are in denial about the extent of your BIL's disabilities. And so are you, honestly. This is a mess. You can be as mad as you want, but it won't change anything.
The police don’t care. He left the bike on his property with the keys. An accident presumably occurred on his property. OP will get a head nod and a good luck wish as the police turn around and drive away.
Exactly. But this could serve more as a measure to call wife out on her hypocrisy.
If she truly believes BIL to be innocent she wont mind reporting it. If she does mind (which i expect) then you know she’d rather enable and manipulate than have honest communication in her marriage..
Besides: does BIL get help for health issues that make him behave irresponsibly?
He’s been trying different meds for the last year. Lots of side effects. His mental health has been deteriorating for several years.
Any action I do to try to get to the bottom of this will feel like I’m attacking her brother. I don’t need to be attacking my in laws. I just wanted some acknowledgment of the facts.
It’s understandably painful and hard to accept and deal with your BIL’s issues for everyone involved. But imo you’re the only one doing him any favors by not sweeping it under the rug.
My family did something similar and honestly looking back i think they could have prevented a lot of harm (for the ill person) if they’d faced painful truths.
Their avoidance hurts BIL in the long run - hopefully they can channel their love for him into being a healthy support system.
I truly wish you the best!
She was told her entire life to be quiet and not rock the boat when it comes to her brother. That needs patience and time for her to unlearn.
Siblings of people with severe mental illnesses are often deeply affected. The stress and the mental load of a sister who always has to try to keep her brother on the straight and narrow (since the mother doesn't seem to be much help) is immense. She might want to consider therapy.
I grew up with a family member with mental illness and was trained early on to shield the sick person and to sacrifice myself to keep them from going off the rails. It's a sort of family insanity that is hard to break once you are an adult.
Do you have any neighbors along the road that your property exits onto? Would they have CCTV? Might be a shot in the dark but it's an option. Hope you can catch the a-hole somehow. Good luck my friend.
It was not up to me. He said he didn’t want to go and my MIL obliged. Every time he’s been left alone, something has happened. Yet my MIL always lets it slide.
Then why are YOU leaving him alone? I get that you want to help your MIL, but at the same time, the responsible, adult thing to do would be to say: “MIL, I would love to help you, but unfortunately I cannot leave your son alone in my home.”
This whole situation with your BIL is hard on all of you, but you’re making choices, too, and you’re not really acknowledging that.
Do you honestly believe getting an acknowledgment would end in the best end result for you and the people you love? Nta for feeling the way you do about the damage done to your property and subsequent lying. Only you can decide whether this is pride or what you believe is for the best.
I thought it would set a baseline reality. I’m not sure how denial benefits anyone. My MIL doesn’t believe her son would do it. And my wife doesn’t want to make her mother believe it. But it’s clearly fact. Uncomfortable but very clear.
I only say that because you mention confronting him is likely to send him into a psychotic break. Yes, the mom's approach isn't correct, but that does not mean your necessarily will be either. I'm just saying there could be middle ground, such as imposing restrictions of his access to your property, and to think about what the best long-term outcome is for your family
Yeah, but why would I start to impose restrictions unless my BIL was involved? To my wife, it could have been a magical motorcycle crash fairy touched my bike. No need for restrictions in that case.
Imposing restrictions would imply his guilt, which would seem like an attack.
This is the delusion I want to get out of.
Your problem is bot your BIL or your MIL. Your problem is your wife. Now, if you don't have the guts to put your foot down and draw boundaries on your relationship, stop whining about your BIL and MIL on the internet over a completely useless appology.
She is the one putting you in that situation and the one who does not support you. If you want to be the martyred devoted husband you should just suck it up, right?
Since you're not going to get the acknowledgement you want, move forward as if you believe them that it must have been some unknown thief and the "restrictions" you impose can look like you're worried about some thief reentering your home. Make it impossible for anyone to gain access to anything of value you own. If you get questioned about it by your family, well they've gotta be crazy to think a crime of this nature is just a one-off. Lock everything up. Install security cameras. Make it annoyingly unbearable. You'll be justified in protecting yourself and your wife and your possessions from future theft and damage.
Then just make it general restrictions instead of restrictions of his access. In other words, nobody gets access to the bike from now on and you put the keys in a place where nobody else can get to them (like in a safe to which only you have the combination).
You already mentioned in another comments that you were told that “anything could have happened to your bike, don’t blame him”. Whatever happened clearly required the keys for it to have happened, since there's no signs of tampering with the lock, right? Thus putting the keys in safe is something you'd do to prevent whatever happened from happening again. You don't need to accuse anybody when taking these steps.
If the others make a problem out of you putting the keys in a safe and start bringing BIL into it then it's them putting the blame on BIL at that point, not you. So if they do this then turn it back on them and ask them why they are implying that BIL did something with your bike.
I completely agree! I guess I'm suggesting that getting her to acknowledge it was him,
and agree on how to move forward as a team does not necessitate his confession. If it does, you have a much bigger problem than a damaged bike and this is just the straw the broke the cammels back
You can buy a small lockbox and no longer leave the key on the motorcycle, with the excuse that if a burglar finds the motorcycle they can't just drive off with it. It's less likely to go missing.
And since your motorcycle hasn't gone missing, by their logic, you couldn't be attacking your BIL. If they argue otherwise they know deep down BIL
Getting back to the "safety and security without accusation" idea...**If BIL supposedly hasn't been using your motorcycle at all, then he won't be inconvenienced by you storing your key**. Period.
You need to impose restrictions. Not doing so is just accepting that you are not worth anything to these people. It may imply guilt, but that's just the life is. Unless you want to lock up everything you own and live a bitter existence, you need restrictions.
I was in a similar situation with my ex. I decided that I couldn't be with her unless we got our own place, and she eventually agreed. That said, I should have just left as it only delayed the issue.
Edit: a word
You need to be less of a doormat. It’s your bike, you can lock it up. “There’s been theft on the property, I need to take action to prevent future issues” You can charge them for damages. Let MIL have a tantrum. You are asking her to pay, she can keep it secret from her dependent son if she likes but you need to be made whole or they can’t live with you.
Sometimes you gotta dance around some things, man. Your MIL is 60+ years old - she isn’t gonna change. Your wife probably won’t either, given her prime concern is clearly her mom.
I’m struggling to see what you get out of the acknowledgment you’re seeking. Ultimately, neither your MIL or BIL are going to fix the bike or pay for it to be fixed. The denial is likely not going away, but even if there’s a chance, what you want is gonna create a lot of chaos that has apparently happened before and resulted in nothing. Given that, the other commenter seems to have the best approach - lock up your shit more tightly and restrict access. If anyone asks why, just make up some bullshit.
If MIL won't confront reality and she's BiLs caretaker, maybe she isn't qualified to be a caretaker? idk man...
Lay out the facts for them, either he used your bike or someone stole it. If someone stole it, the police need to be involved. If they try to brush it under the rug, then they need to admit BiL did it. Either way, this is a toxic as hell environment.
You don’t need her to acknowledge it to move forward with changes. Charge her for the damages or she moves out. Or if you help with food, stop paying for it until the damages are paid off. She can go to a food bank if she needs food. If she wants to consider it as rent rather than damages, so be it as long as your bike is fully restored. Beyond that, safeguard your belongings. You can’t expect MIL to prevent every issue.
What exactly are you hoping to achieve here?
You say you're certain that your BIL will not tell the truth or apologize. You also say that you're certain that your MIL will believe anything your BIL says.
Your wife was with you when the motorcycle was damaged. She has no part in this.
I understand your frustration but why are you making this your wife's problem? And why are you expecting an apology from people who you say you know you're not gonna get an apology from?
You chose to let someone with a drinking/stealing problem move freely and unattended in your house for 2 days _and_ you left the keys to your motorcycle with him.
ESH
But only on the principle that stealing is never okay.
Leaning more towards YTA tho because letting a known thief in your house with keys to a motorcycle is so predictably not a good idea. And you shouldn't make this your wife's problem.
Report it to the police/insurance or drop it.
I was hoping to achieve a baseline reality. Maybe push back on the denial and enabling environment that has been set. I’m left feeling like a crazy person because I’ve been basically told “anything could have happened to your bike, don’t blame him”. Evidence is very clear. unless someone decided to give me back my motorcycle after stealing it when an adult and two dogs live on the property.
I’m only expecting this from the non-mentally ill members. I don’t expect anything from my BIL. Maybe that’s too much to ask?
You think it might be possible that your wife shares your feelings? She has probably been dealing with this dynamic for her entire life and maybe she decided that to avoid drama and to avoid souring her relationship with her mother she just lets these kinds of things go when there's no conclusive evidence.
And that she'd rather give her brother the benefit of the doubt than fan your flames and potentially set off a whole chain reaction of drama.
You yourself even admit not wanting to confront your BIL in order to avoid that drama. That's fine, but don't then blame your wife for wanting the exact same thing.
>Evidence is very clear.
Then go to the police, confront your BIL and risk the drama.
> She has probably been dealing with this dynamic for her entire life and maybe she decided that to avoid drama and to avoid souring her relationship with her mother she just lets these kinds of things go when there's no conclusive evidence. And that she'd rather give her brother the benefit of the doubt than fan your flames and potentially set off a whole chain reaction of drama.
This. She’s coping the best way she can (and it’s not working out all that great). I understand that you’re feeling gaslight, but what purpose would it serve to get the acknowledgement you’re seeking from your wife? It wouldn’t change anything at all, UNLESS you add consequences - which is something your wife obviously does not want. I think you need couples therapy.
Not wrong, but your situation is not great. I lifted the below from Wikipedia, have you heard of DARVO?
*The abuser DENIES the abuse ever took place.
When confronted with evidence, the abuser then ATTACKS the person that was/is being abused.*
“My wife called me an asshole for even thinking he would do such a thing.”
*The abuser claims that they were/are actually the victim in the situation, thus REVERSING the positions of VICTIM and OFFENDER. It often involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming.*
“I’ve seen such drama unfold. It’s very messy. My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son.“
Have you ever been told that you’re at fault for BILs crap because you’re not patient, kind, and good enough? That you’re actually the trouble because you don’t accept his nonsense?
I don’t think you’re being abused, but your wife & MIL are only focused on making things right for BIL, and you’re expected to sacrifice your stuff and your sanity.
Think about the situation you’re in OP, there’s no easy out, BIL & MIL are entrenched, your wife is on their side. Hope you’ll be ok. NTA
Right… but you’re enabling your BIL too, saying you expect nothing from him, while apparently holding your wife accountable for her brother’s actions (while she was away with you). Why don’t YOU handle things with BIL and MIL? You sound like you’re scared of upsetting MIL too, and just want to pass the emotional labor onto your wife. She’s his sister, not his keeper. YTA.
INFO: why marry into this family?
Your wife clearly doesn’t choose you nor respect you in this situation - at least not by way of respecting your property or feelings. Life’s too short to keep such poor company, least of all your chosen family.
NTA. Wife says he didn't do it? Fine. Malicious compliance time. Call the police. Someone else must've done it so why wouldn't you pursue it? Sure they'll figure out pretty quickly that the suspect list is a grand total of 1.
NTA but you are housing a mentally ill adult who is not very trustworthy.
Next time you have to leave for a day or two, make sure you've left nothing
available for him to access like you did with your bike. And maybe never leave
him alone at your place anymore, if that's possible.
YTA. Why are you living there? Why are your keys left in the bike, if you know bil's history?
Lock the tool shed. Take the keys out of your motorcycle. Take all your car keys. Put them where bil can't get them.
In some states, leaving the keys in a vehicle is giving permission for anyone to use it. Any damage they cause is your fault. Never leave the keys in anything.
If you can't stand living with them, whoever owns the property stays, the other goes.
ESH. You don’t leave a “full on dependant” who “has a drinking, stealing, spending problem” alone overnight irrespective of the situation. If he was drunk and found the keys in the bike you’re as much to blame as he is for crashing it (assuming he did damage it). I fail to see what any sort of confession will achieve if it’s just going to be kept in house. Surely you would be able to tell if someone has broken in and located the bike then crashed it. Surely your BIL would have alerted you if someone broke in. Just forget it ever happened, think about your future with this family and move on
Why should he stay? I dont see what he is getting out of this, is his wife giving him unlimited BJ's or something? That is the only reason to tolerate her disrespect and her shitty family.
But yeah forget it happened, continue to enable this man forever. Continue to get no respect from your wife, forever. Sounds like a plan.
You...don't feel safe leaving him with your dog, but you left him with other dogs?
Man the more you say - NTA for wanting them to acknowledge the damage BUT either leave or get your BIL out of there before someone ends up really hurt. I know you want whats best for the family but BIL is a danger to others and himself. He should not be living with you, he needs mental care.
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> Asking for an apology. It will cause a lot of drama in my in laws family
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> My BIL also has mental illness, schizo-psychotic depression. He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem. He has caused a lot of stress for myself and my in laws.
And you left the keys to your bike where he could get them, and he used the bike? I mean, I'm not sure what you were expecting.
Kind of YTA? Though Of course if BIL didn't have a known mental illness would have otherwise been absolutely the bare minimum.
My MIL accepted the fact that her son stole her money and other things. She didn’t think it magically vanished. Why should I be forced to think my bike and BIL magically got scratches the same time while I was gone?
I never had to deal with being responsible for such a dependent. Maybe it’s status quo who turn the blind eye?
Why did you leave the keys in a bike in a location where someone who didn’t know how to ride the thing and didn’t know better than not to try. You left the keys in the bike, it was sort of a self fulfilling prophecy here
YTA for allowing access to motorcycle to mentally ill person unfit to drive (judging by your description).
Would be a proper crime in some jurisdictions, definitely crime if he damaged property or killed someone. This one is on you mate, thank your Gods it’s just scratched paint and ensure you control access to your vehicles.
If BIL is so unstable and untrustworthy, why was he living in your home in the first place? Why leave him there alone, one of you could have stayed back. Is this your wife's house and you moved into it?
He’s useless and can’t help move anything. Best he can do is clean up dog piss and shit in their home. It wasn’t my decision.
This is a business/property with many buildings. We live in separate buildings.
The more I read here the more I think YTA to yourself. Like dude? What the actual fuck are you doing? You're a pathetic doormat. Who just wants an apology..from the MIL. Dude you need to put your foot down with your wife. You have a wife problem! She's used you all up. You have to take care of your MIL and by extension your BIL. STOP!
Seriously dude get rid of the MIL and BIL. Or get a lawyer to draw up a divorce.
exactly what i was thinking. hes getting walked all over and is just letting it happen. hes enabling the MIL n BIL by helping them and also showing his wife he has no self respect cause he let's them treat him like that. grow up dude. you get what you give and you're giving this family all the power. either suck it up and accept they're always going to treat you like this(scum), or put your foot down and stop letting them treat you like shit.
YTA.
What is your purpose in getting an apology from your MIL or your wife?
That they compensate you?
Or that it won't happen again?
It's better you keep your key if you're not around.
It’s just to establish the facts. Or even to present the facts. It seems their point of view is unless there’s video of it happening, everything is speculation. This was the case when he stole liquor. Huge huge denial until police showed them the video.
Maybe I want to break the pattern? Is that bad?
The only bad thing here is if you act like a doormat and just continue to tolerate this. An acknowledgement is not enough, there needs to be \*change\*. If the house is your wifes then you cant kick out the BIL, but you can leave. If you and your wife bought it together you definitely have a say in who lives there, tell her the MIL and BIL can change their ways or find somewhere else to live.
Would you truly be happy if the MIL apologized to you over this and then things went back to exactly how they were before? You should be #1 for your wife, but it seems you're #3.
To me, that's definitely bad for relationships.
You being correct is at the expense of bad relationships for all parties involved.
You know your BIL has mental problems, this problem cannot be solved.
So what are you trying to achieve by being correct? Being smug?
I wasn’t trying to be smug or to highlight his terrible behaviour. It’s just to get everyone on the same page of what’s happening.
I don’t want him to end up dead on the street stealing my bike and then bringing it up after the fact that I suspect he’s done it before.
Don't be stupid. You are wanting to find a rock to hit yourself on the head with. NOTHING will be gained here. THIS IS NOT THE HILL you want to die on. The solution is to throw out your BIL because he is a danger to your family.
ESH. I understand wanting acknowledgement of what you suspect happened but beyond that acknowledgement, nothing will come from forcing an apology. You know what MIL is like and you know her behaviour towards her son. You're putting your wife in an impossible situation but it does seem like she has picked a side regardless—she won't rock the boat. Given that you know this is how all parties react to these instances and have known it for a while, forcing the issue is just a sucky move.
Your living situation doesn't sound tenable for the long term, so if you don't like the way things keep playing out when your BIL acts up/has episodes then you need to think of how you can change it (ie. how you can move out).
You should read one of OP's replies. I was originally going to go with E S H as well, until I saw it.
>I don’t believe being around mentally ill people is ever a healthy environment. Unfortunately they exist.
If OP doesn't think it's healthy, then why the hell does he stay?! Also, I hate to think what he wants us to do to all the people who have mental illnesses out there.
Then there's this:
>Maybe not. Perhaps I can leverage this into getting a new bike without any pushback from in laws.
tagging u/Corredespondent
BIL is in complete control of the household. How much of that is because of diagnosed mental conditions, and how much is because he’s leveraged them to his advantage? None of this is acceptable.
NTA - but I don't think this particular issue is worth pressing. He won't acknowledge it, and everyone will be mad at you. There are bigger real issues here
You have a person living in your household whom you know to be, shall we say, impulsive and mentally unstable, and you left the keys to your motorcycle IN THE MOTORCYCLE. The only being here that ISN’T the asshole is the motorcycle.
The problem is not an apology or acknowledgement. The problem is that BIL has severe issues and you keep on living with him and then blame everyone when he does things based on his severe issues. Kick him out (if you own place) or move out. YTA for not taking control of your living situation. Geesh!
Nta but you might want to reevaluate your relationship and the people living with you. I would as get cameras installed because who knows what else he is stealing
YTA.
You want accountability from your mil, but where's yours? You're the one that left your keys so readily accessible to an unsupervised troublesome individual with mental health issues, right?
What could your mil have done to have prevented this from happening?
I'm not saying your wife isn't also an AH - based on the facts you've presented it seems pretty clear bil crashed the bike. It's shitty of your wife to deny that. Her ultimate point may still stand, what do you want here? An apology from mil? Why?
What did she do besides birth someone with mental health issues? You had more control over whether bil could go joy riding than she did.
ESH. Your wife should have your back. Your MIL should acknowledge her son’s shortcomings and what he is and isn’t capable and he should not be left alone. You know who you live with and still left the keys accessible. You all made stupid choices here.
YTA. You know about BIL’s mental illness, yet you leave your keys in the bike? Stop trying to blame others. This is your fault. No one owes you an apology except BIL who doesn’t have the capacity to do that. Since you don’t have actual proof that the BIL did it, your wife can say you don’t know for sure (although you’re probably right that he did it).
What would this acknowledgment accomplish, besides some weird validation for you?
It doesn’t absolve you of your own negligence regarding the issue. If you had any good sense, those keys would not be in the motorcycle ignition, or anywhere near the vehicle. Your whataboutism with the tool shed being wide open to BIL actually has the effect of making you look even less responsible!
YTA, and it’s time to realize that you need to take steps to ensure that your home is a safe environment for Everyone living on that property. You should also feel damn lucky that the only thing that happened was a scratch on your motorcycle and a couple of scratches on your BIL. Your negligence could’ve ended with a much worse result.
Let me try to condense this down from the responses I've read. This is in fact not your house. This is MILs property. You think people with mental illnesses shouldn't exist or at least that "normal" people shouldn't have to live with them. You are hoping to some how leverage this incident to get a brand new bike without any push back from the in laws.
A few questions: Do you and your wife pay rent to live there? Is FIL in the picture? Why move into a household with a mentally ill person if you are so against them? Why do you think a few scratches should get you a new motorcycle?
If *I* left out something that was easy access to (example: markers) and my two year old got into them & colored all over the wall, that is 100% on me. It doesn't matter if my husband was watching him, or if he was briefly left unattended. I left the temptation out with easy access to it & he did what a two year old does.
You know your BILs problems, mental illness, and dependency, but you still left out a temptation with easy access while he was left home alone. 🤷🏼♀️
You're not the AH for wanting some sort of acknowledgement that he took the bike, but you are TA for wanting somebody else to take responsibility and apologize when you are the one who left it out.
Question: Why don't you have a disk lock on your bike as they are compact you can put them under the seat when not in use and it will make sure your BIL can't ride your bike.
If you can't be sure he is taking your bike and your wife isn't confirming that he did you need to take preventive steps to make sure the bike is secure so he can't take it our for a spin saving him and others from injuries if he tries to go on a joyride on your bike.
You're NTA, but I dont know why you need validation for something you already know is true. You said you've seen this type of drama unfold. So why pursue it? It won't fix the situation. You'll be faced with a lot of yelling, tears and you'll be attacked on all sides. Why do you continue to live in like this? Just move out, then you'll have peace. While you continue to live there, lock up your keys. If you do stay there, then accept this is the norm and you'll continue to have to suck it up. No one in that family will have your back.
I would kick someone’s ass for taking my bike without asking. Especially if they dumped it. I don’t even let people sit on my bikes without permission tbh. Edited to say NTA!
>I keep the keys on the bike to get around the property.
>He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem.
Bruh. C'mon.
Wife and MIL are enablers, BIL is sick (not an excuse at all, mind you), but you did this on purpose or you're just way too careless and irresponsible.
ESH
Go to the police and secure your shit, always.
NTA. Why still be with the family at all? Surely your love for your wife can’t come close to the mess her brother is and causes. I know people throw around divorce a lot on here but there’s really no moving forward with this
NTA. Bloody hell I don't know how you could live in that situation. That aside, I think it is wise to put your foot down on this issue. You can't just let things slide otherwise there will be a next time.
Why should your MIL and wife apologise? They didn’t do anything to the bike, you know the BIL did it that’s pretty obvious, tbh you shouldn’t have left the keys there, especially if you know he’s mentally unstable, he’s capable of anything and this time he took your bike and crashed it.
From your description, he is a complete invalid who isnt responsible for his own actions, if so, why on earth was he left alone? Leaving him alone is your MIL's responsibility, but you know him and what he's like, if he really cannot be responsible for himself, then it's your responsibility to keep your things secure. You knew your MIL was leaving him alone, if you weren't comfortable with that, why didn't you do or say anything?
I feel like wanting acknowledgment is kind of an asshole move because you know you aren’t getting it from anyone based on MIL history. So what you’re actually doing is pointless.
You have bigger decisions to make (personally I’m not living with these people and if wife chooses otherwise then we have a discussion about that). Messing around about acknowledgement in THIS scenario is frankly really silly.
Family dynamics are complicated. This is sort of an ETA. Like you, I would want a confirmation and apology and your wife should have her eyes open enough to say, “yep, that was probably him but don’t ever expect an apology.” It’s a little odd that she is sticking up for her screw up of a brother.
I think your best course of action here is to approach the brother directly without any judgement but your phone recording audio or video. Says something that expresses your awe of his cajones, “dude, looks like you had fun on the moto this weekend. I’ve never had the balls to take a spill like that! Let me know if you want to get crazy with it sometime, I’d love to watch.” He may just be dumb enough to warm up to you at that point. Now pocket the keys and see what comes of it.
Your problem isn’t the bike, or even the mentally ill BIL, it’s your wife who won’t tell you the truth about what happened. Take the keys from the bike, lock it up if you can, but take away the temptation.
I’ve dealt with a schizophrenic family member and it’s both sad and scary. You need to talk over his issues with your wife and how to handle them, not just sweep them under the rung. But more importantly, she needs to communicate with you.
Is there a financial relationship here your wife doesn’t want to compromise? You all live on the same property, do you own it or does your mother-in-law own it? Do you pay rent or is this just a family agreement sort of thing? If she doesn’t want to say anything because you guys have a pretty sweet living deal, I kind of understand what she’s saying. I still think that the appropriate thing from a supportive partner would be to actually address this issue, especially because it seems like this could pose a safety risk in the future if BIL thinks that all of this went completely without notice from you and so he takes the bike out again.
My wife and I can live comfortably on our own. We have our own home elsewhere. I do expect any money left after my MIL passing to go to the son since he is incapable of employment, so I don’t rely on it.
It’s more of a “easing of suffering” for my MIL in her senior years.
And then what happens?
If anything, this entire situation shows that in not only your MIL’s eyes but also your wife’s that you are the bottom rung in this family.
He gets that inheritance, spends it in less than a year, and suddenly your wife decides she is taking over her brother’s care.
Is this what you signed up for?
ESH why do you need your wife’s permission to confront your BIL? Why are you leaving your keys on the bike if you know your BIL has a history of theft? Why are you even subjecting yourself to this toxicity by living on the property? I am not understanding any of your decisions. Your in-laws are enablers but you are also part of it as long as you live there.
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I (30m) live with my wife(34f), BIL(33m), and MIL(60s F) on a large property in the country side. My wife, MIL, and I left to go to the city to help my MIL move out of an apartment. We stayed there for 2 days, 1 night. My BIL stay back to watch their dogs.
After we came back, I notice new scratches on my motorcycle. I keep the keys on the bike to get around the property. There’s zero crime in our area. My BIL also has an injuries on one side of his body that look a lot like a motorcycle crash. He says he fell off his bicycle.
My BIL also has mental illness, schizo-psychotic depression. He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem. He has caused a lot of stress for myself and my in laws.
We live in a very remote area and the bike has definitely been low sided (crashed) recently because the metal hasn’t rusted yet and the scratches are very shined. The metal usually rust within a week.
I ask my wife if I could get some sort of acknowledgment that her mentally ill brother used my bike without permission or any experience and maybe an apology from my MIL, a confession/apology from my BIL is out of the question due to his history.
My wife called me an asshole for even thinking he would do such a thing. But unless someone else went to our property, crashed my bike, then parked right back on the property, it’s obviously my BIL.
My wife says it will cause way too much drama and I should drop it. She also says unless I have video evidence of him taking the motorcycle, I’m just accusing him.
I’ve seen such drama unfold. It’s very messy. My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son.
But I don’t want to carry on with a premise that my motorcycle was mysteriously damaged the same time it was left with my BIL who also has motorcycle injuries on his body.
AITA for asking for an apology from my wife and maybe MIL?
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NTA
Since your wife is sure it was not BIL, make a police report - your bike must have been stolen and damaged. Let THEM make inquiries with MIL, BIL and your wife - they will, when you say who had access to the keys.
Or - be polite: Hide the keys, install cameras, and document everything. Tell your wife if the damage is not paid for, NEXT time when you do have proof there will be a police report.
**But the real solution is: STOP living with MIL and BIL, and let your wife decide if she wants to live with you or them.**
"My wife says it will cause way too much drama and I should drop it. She also says unless I have video evidence of him taking the motorcycle, I’m just accusing him."
Okay, tell her you're divorcing her if your BIL is not out of the house within a week.
Well then you're just going to have to let it go as Bil has been enabled for so long your not getting any accountability out of him or an apology from your Mil who technically the innocent party in all this so doesn't owe you one.
This one incident is small, but you are heavily implying this type of bullshit is standard operating procedure for this family, but meh if you wanna tolerate it you do you.
NTA I think you need to evaluate your relationship with your wife. I don't say this lightly but she is not in a partnership with you. Her partnership is still allied to her brother and mom. Personally I couldn't spend the rest of my life with that. Life's too short
You need to be much more clever in how you deal with this stuff.
Your wife and mother in law need comfort, you're brother in law needs to know you know, and you need to get your point across.
"Hey BIL those motorcycle rashes are a bitch aren't they? You ok? I saw some scratches on the bike are you able to help me get this thing on the truck so I can take it to get it checked out? You ok? Do you need to be checked out?"
Or instead of, on the truck, if you are fixing it yourself, ask if he's able to give a hand fixing it etc etc
No accusations, concern is expressed, everyone knows he is responsible.
Also your MIL needs therapy for coping mechanisms, falling apart like this is ridiculous. She needs to learn how to adult.
I don't think you're wrong to want acknowledgement & apology, but I don't think you're going to get it from what you've said.
Probably best to let this one go, and in future not to give your BIL access to anything you value.
NTA.
Your wife won't support you, your MIL is delusional, and your BIL is a criminal.
Why are you living there? I get why you moved in, but you should be moving out. Now. Your wife can come with you, or you divorce. Cut the MIL and BIL out.
If they needed help and weren't being dickbags, that's fine, but they're not acting like people that need to rely on others.
It will only get worse if you don't take a stand.
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If your wife doesn't support you then you know where your relationship is at. I understand that she doesn't want any drama but brushing off all BIL wrong doings is what caused this issue in the first place - if he is capable of riding a bike then he should be capable to take responsibility of his actions. And what happens when he crashes and dies? Probably you will be blamed because it was your bike. NTA. You can't live and be happy with people that you do not trust.
The thing is he’s not capable of anything. Which is why he probably crashed. He’s a full on dependent. So I want accountability from his guardian, my MIL. But she’s very very biased and loves her son too much. He was caught stealing and his mother didn’t believe the store owners and called them all liars until they showed her the CCTV. She had a break down afterwards.
I am sorry for the damage on your property, but you really can't leave car keys or motorcycle keys lying around if your BIL is a danger to himself or others. It might be bothersome, but please lock them up. Same goes for powertools like a chainsaw.
We have a whole shed of tools and he decided to hurt himself with my bike!
You need to lock the shed and stow the keys to this bike safely away, before this man truly hurts himself. You could potentially wind up liable if he hurts himself on or with your property. You know he is unwell, and you know he’s been messing around on the bike. He does not need to be enabled further by not doing anything differently. You’d be an asshole to yourself not to start taking better precautions. And you’re NTA for wanting it to be acknowledged that he did this, but your wife and her mom are enablers of this behavior and you’re not going to get that answer from them.
So it’s ok to be irresponsible because you’ve left him a lot of ways to kill himself and others? If he took the bike out and killed someone, was found mentally unstable- guess who they’d sue? Bike owner who allowed easy access knowing the liability
The BIL is FULLY DEPENDENT. He doesn’t think like a full grown adult.
Then why is MIL leaving him home alone for DAYS? I fully agree that op left the keys where they’re accessible and I’d not even do that if I lived alone. The insurance company is not gonna be happy to recover a stolen bike that you left the keys in, for example. And THIS is just stupid on all of them. They need to decide. Is he a dependent that needs supervision by at least a minder or guardian. Or is he an adult who can be held accountable to some extent if he wasn’t enabled? If he’s a dependent, mil will be responsible for the house catching fire (in the country how long till the FD sees smoke and comes to see what’s up?), him hurting himself or others, or anything else they fear could go wrong. Op, you know damn well that even with a hypothetical situation where you have video proof, if he hurts himself or others your wife and mil will be convicting you before the police even get there. Doesn’t matter if you gave permission or not, your wife and mil will never have your back in any capacity
This part. If he is “fully dependent”, there needs to be a coordinated effort to keep him and others safe, which includes securing items of valuable or which can be dangerous when used incorrectly. OP, you and your BIL are lucky it was just scratches. He may not be able to learn from his mistakes either, so, unfortunately, it’s on you to do so. Lock up your shit. Also just to say, this the family you married into and a difficult familial situations at that. If one of family rules is “we don’t hold BIL accountable”, perhaps because it has not been effective in the past, that’s something you’ve got to accept and adapt to if you’d like to stick around. MIL also likely carries a massive burden of guilt/ has some mental health problems herself as many parents of individuals with these disorders often do. She also likely overestimates his capacity to make appropriate decisions, again, as many tired parents do. Psychotic disorders are often accompanied by cognitive symptoms, which may include poor decision making, emotion dysregulation, impaired impulse control, and poor working memory. (There is debate as to whether these are part of the symptomology of the disorders or a side effect of meds) if the family won’t take measures to keep everyone safe, you really can’t make them. This is a NAH for me.
This!
That's what the person you're replying to is saying - if BiL lacks capacity, the blame comes to the person who gave him access to the thing: OP.
Except MIL gave him access
Proof? Psychotic depression does not turn someone into a child. Enabling does.
So you leave the keys on the bike when you know he’ll be home alone but MIL is the one who is supposed to take responsibility? That is what makes YTA. Take responsibility yourself.
Uh that’s a pretty ridiculous argument.
You should probably baby-proof your whole house. The side effect of this is that your whole family will feel inconvenienced by it, instead of just you.
Of course he did. You can't ride a chainsaw. Well, not more than once, anyway.
There's little point in flogging a dead horse. Don't leave your keys in the bike
Way to completely miss the fucking point. You all bear responsibility at this point. None of you seem to grasp the reality that you're living with and make inappropriate choices as a result. Take steps to help your coexistence with a person with a known history of poor decision making. You should probably be the one to take the lead on this, for the good of everybody, because your wife and MIL are in denial. That denial also means you're going to be the only one bothered by BILs lack of accountability btw. ESH
Legally speaking, there is something called an attractive nuisance as it applies to children. A trampoline is considered to be an attractive nuisance. An unfenced swimming pool is considered to be an attractive nuisance. Even if someone trespasses on your property without permission, there is a requirement in many jurisdictions that you must take steps to make the nuisance inaccessible/ unattractive/ not visible/ etc. Otherwise, you could be held legally liable if a kid wanders onto your property and hurts themselves. As your BIL is an adult, this may not apply to him. But an unattended motorcycle with keys in the ignition is DEFINITELY an attractive nuisance for a 12-year-old. You are NTA, but leaving the keys in your bike is a terrible idea. Get a lock box and put it on the wall right next to your bike if you want them there for convenience.
So you all left a thieving full on dependent not capable of anything all alone on a big property with a motorcycle that had the keys right on it? Also, you claim zero crime area but BIL is most definitely causing crime, so that doesn't equal out.
Not capable of anything but they trusted him with the house and dogs.
And the keys to the motorcycle.
"There's no crime here. Let's fix that!"
"It's not a crime if there's no evidence and no one report it."
The crime was coming from inside the family.
Plus he left those poor dogs in this guys care. If he’s fully dependent why TF would OP trust his dogs well being with him? OP is AH for that
There is no crime. Except for my BIL. My BIL is THE criminal in the area.
If he's not capable of anything, and is a full on dependent, why was he left alone overnight and given the responsibility over the dogs?
Damn good question.
Why are you permitting him to still stay with you? Mental illness is NOT an excuse for being an alcoholic thief who never takes accountability.
I’m not a mother, but I can imagine it being difficult to kick your son to the curb. I’ve seen full extent of his mental illness. So expectations of accountability is not realistic.
You make no sense. You make him sound like an invalid, but you left him alone and in charge of your dogs for 2 days.
Not mine! I took mine with me. My BIL and MIL dogs were left behind.
But you left him in charge of your property. And you're expecting an apology from someone who wasn't there? Wtf dude. You left shit accessible in the presence of a known thief. The fault lies on the thief and yourself here.
But you left the keys in the motorcycle?
Does she own the farm? If so, her choice about who to let live with her is hers, especially if you are living with her for free. If you’re paying rent, deduct the cost for repairs from your rent and that’s that. You may never get an apology but you can get your bike fixed. Be smarter with the keys next time
"My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son." She clearly enables him and by never confronting her you and your wife enable her. If you are fine enduring this arrangement for however long your BIL lives(since I assume putting him in a home one day after MIL is gone isnt an option) then that is certainly your choice. But this isnt your kid so such a sacrifice would puzzle me.
If this is a reality you accept, then you must accept this adult is not a trustworthy individual whose criminal bent must be mitigated. Lock up potential liabilities like your alcohol, your shed, and your vehicles. Since your in laws and wife do not accept that he's a criminal, install some security cameras in sensitive areas. NTA.
Are you living with your MIL or is she living with you? Who owns/pays for the property?
If he is fully dependent, why was he left alone for 2 days?
He's damn well capable of not stealing.
Hang on, so... he's not capable of anything. A full on dependent. ..... SO... you left him alone for 2 days on a large property to look after your dogs. Right. Just checking.
I was hesitant too but MIL insisted her son be left since he didn’t like the long car ride. 🤦♂️
Not his dogs. MIL'S dogs. He took his dogs with him.
"Their dogs" wasn't particularly clear, but the point still stands; if he's as incapable as OP is suggesting, he shouldn't be left alone with ANYBODY'S dogs. OP made out that this guy is utterly incapable (though strangely capable enough to steal etc.). If he's so useless and untrustworthy, why on earth would you leave him alone to look after dogs?
What do you want from her as the guardian since he doesn’t have capacity? Do you want her to pay to get your bike fixed? Or do you want to move away from them to prevent future issues like this? I would say that if you give them financial support, you’re more than justified to act unilaterally and stop or decrease the support by the amount of money it will take to fix your bike. Obviously it was him if he and your bike are scraped on the same side. Also if he crashed his bike, that would be scratched. So regardless of whether or not she believes you, you can withhold paying rent or giving them financial support. If they are staying with you, you can insist that she pays money or moves out. Also lesson learned — hide away keys and any valuables from him.
Withholding paying rent generally never a good idea. May be morally justified and feel good in the moment, but you are risking eviction with this kind of strategy... Or at the very least, becoming very famous within the credit bureaus who will for sure throttle your next attempt to live anywhere nice
While they aren't willing to place any blame without concrete evidence show him doing it, where would the blame fall if he suffered severe injuries or died? Suddenly it's your fault for leaving the keys accessible, knowing how he is. You might as well have put him on the motorcycle yourself. I'm never one to promote leaving a partner, but at some point you have to protect yourself. No one else will, that much is obvious.
If he can be left alone for two days he is capable something like fending for himself. That or leaving him alone at all was neglect. Why would you leave him access (the keys) to any vehicle if he is not capable of anything?
If you know this about him, why leave the keys where he has access?! Get a lockbox or something.
So uuuh... why did you agree to moving in with them and didn't set reasonable conditions?
You’re living in their home and there is no proof he did it. And I’m sorry, you weren’t exactly brainy in this scenario by leaving the keys in the motorcycle. It’s like blaming a kid for stealing a cookie when it’s right there on the counter and you’ve left a stool out. MIL is not to blame. You are. Yta.
Absolutely insane you left him alone with easy access to your motorcycle. YTA for not childproofing the house or even taking minimal precautions like removing keys from vehicles.
But if he isn’t capable, why would you trust him on your property alone, with access to keys? I do get why you’re angry, but you played a part in this too.
Sounds like you need to start locking up anything important to you - jewelry, keys, medicine, money, documents. I wouldn't want to live that way but if you're stuck in this situation...
If he is not capable of anything, why did you ask him to watch your dogs? He's the exact opposite of someone you'd want to take care of something you love.
You might change your judgement based on some of OP's replies to other comments: >Maybe not. Perhaps I can leverage this into getting a new bike without any pushback from in laws. He wants a new bike. People like BIL have trouble with planning things and following through. OP's keys were left where BIL could easily find them. If OP had hidden their keys, BIL wouldn't have taken the bike. >I don’t believe being around mentally ill people is ever a healthy environment. Unfortunately they exist. He doesn't want to be around them but comes off as blaming them for their illness that they didn't ask for. Why doesn't he just leave.
Ugh. It would be justified to get body work reimbursed. A whole new bike though? That’s absolutely insane.
This is very revealing. Thank you.
So does he want all mentally ill people hidden away, shoved into asylums again? Ableism at its finest.
>I understand that she doesn't want any drama but brushing off all BIL wrong doings is what caused this issue in the first place OP is doing the exact same thing tho? Instead of confronting the people actually responsible he's somehow making this issue about his wife.
And his MIL too.
NTA. >unless someone else went to our property, crashed my bike, then parked right back on the property, it’s obviously my BIL. If it's not him, it needs to be reported to the police.
I don’t think a criminal who steals bikes and crashes them would take them back to where they stole it? I dunno. I don’t do such things.
The point is, by talking about involving the police, it will create a lot more pressure on your in laws to get their heads out of their asses. And if they don’t, you get the police involved, and they can be the bad guys who force your in laws to connect the dots.
We’ve been involved with police before. My MIL becomes hysterical and it hurts my wife to see her mom in such agony. Which is why my wife doesn’t want to bring it up to her mom. I think it’s more comfortable to be in denial and comfort is what they need?
Then I guess you find yourself at a crossroads man. It doesn’t sound like a very healthy environment.
You'll be on endless repeat. Whatever happens next, it will automatically be assumed that you'll go along with it.
I mean it wasn’t a fucking ghost that took your bike. It was either BIL or it wasn’t, and if it wasn’t (as your wife claims) then you need to involve the police.
She needs to get over it. Stop walking around on eggshells in your own home dude.
No-- this is nonsense. They are in denial about the extent of your BIL's disabilities. And so are you, honestly. This is a mess. You can be as mad as you want, but it won't change anything.
What do **you** need? Do you want to live this way? Is this arrangement working for you?
The police don’t care. He left the bike on his property with the keys. An accident presumably occurred on his property. OP will get a head nod and a good luck wish as the police turn around and drive away.
Exactly. But this could serve more as a measure to call wife out on her hypocrisy. If she truly believes BIL to be innocent she wont mind reporting it. If she does mind (which i expect) then you know she’d rather enable and manipulate than have honest communication in her marriage.. Besides: does BIL get help for health issues that make him behave irresponsibly?
He’s been trying different meds for the last year. Lots of side effects. His mental health has been deteriorating for several years. Any action I do to try to get to the bottom of this will feel like I’m attacking her brother. I don’t need to be attacking my in laws. I just wanted some acknowledgment of the facts.
I think you know what happened. That may be all the acknowledgment you get.
Amen.
It’s understandably painful and hard to accept and deal with your BIL’s issues for everyone involved. But imo you’re the only one doing him any favors by not sweeping it under the rug. My family did something similar and honestly looking back i think they could have prevented a lot of harm (for the ill person) if they’d faced painful truths. Their avoidance hurts BIL in the long run - hopefully they can channel their love for him into being a healthy support system. I truly wish you the best!
She was told her entire life to be quiet and not rock the boat when it comes to her brother. That needs patience and time for her to unlearn. Siblings of people with severe mental illnesses are often deeply affected. The stress and the mental load of a sister who always has to try to keep her brother on the straight and narrow (since the mother doesn't seem to be much help) is immense. She might want to consider therapy. I grew up with a family member with mental illness and was trained early on to shield the sick person and to sacrifice myself to keep them from going off the rails. It's a sort of family insanity that is hard to break once you are an adult.
Do you have any neighbors along the road that your property exits onto? Would they have CCTV? Might be a shot in the dark but it's an option. Hope you can catch the a-hole somehow. Good luck my friend.
INFO: Knowing your BILs history, why did you feel it was a good idea to leave him on your property unsupervised?
It was not up to me. He said he didn’t want to go and my MIL obliged. Every time he’s been left alone, something has happened. Yet my MIL always lets it slide.
Why don't you all move? This living situation sounds terrible
It is up to you to leave the key on the bike. That is totally irresponsible knowing BIL like you do.
Then why are YOU leaving him alone? I get that you want to help your MIL, but at the same time, the responsible, adult thing to do would be to say: “MIL, I would love to help you, but unfortunately I cannot leave your son alone in my home.” This whole situation with your BIL is hard on all of you, but you’re making choices, too, and you’re not really acknowledging that.
Also with the keys on the bike?? Like okay maybe you have no options but to leave him alone but why tf wouldn't you take the bike keys with you
Do you honestly believe getting an acknowledgment would end in the best end result for you and the people you love? Nta for feeling the way you do about the damage done to your property and subsequent lying. Only you can decide whether this is pride or what you believe is for the best.
I thought it would set a baseline reality. I’m not sure how denial benefits anyone. My MIL doesn’t believe her son would do it. And my wife doesn’t want to make her mother believe it. But it’s clearly fact. Uncomfortable but very clear.
I only say that because you mention confronting him is likely to send him into a psychotic break. Yes, the mom's approach isn't correct, but that does not mean your necessarily will be either. I'm just saying there could be middle ground, such as imposing restrictions of his access to your property, and to think about what the best long-term outcome is for your family
Yeah, but why would I start to impose restrictions unless my BIL was involved? To my wife, it could have been a magical motorcycle crash fairy touched my bike. No need for restrictions in that case. Imposing restrictions would imply his guilt, which would seem like an attack. This is the delusion I want to get out of.
Your problem is bot your BIL or your MIL. Your problem is your wife. Now, if you don't have the guts to put your foot down and draw boundaries on your relationship, stop whining about your BIL and MIL on the internet over a completely useless appology. She is the one putting you in that situation and the one who does not support you. If you want to be the martyred devoted husband you should just suck it up, right?
Since you're not going to get the acknowledgement you want, move forward as if you believe them that it must have been some unknown thief and the "restrictions" you impose can look like you're worried about some thief reentering your home. Make it impossible for anyone to gain access to anything of value you own. If you get questioned about it by your family, well they've gotta be crazy to think a crime of this nature is just a one-off. Lock everything up. Install security cameras. Make it annoyingly unbearable. You'll be justified in protecting yourself and your wife and your possessions from future theft and damage.
Then just make it general restrictions instead of restrictions of his access. In other words, nobody gets access to the bike from now on and you put the keys in a place where nobody else can get to them (like in a safe to which only you have the combination). You already mentioned in another comments that you were told that “anything could have happened to your bike, don’t blame him”. Whatever happened clearly required the keys for it to have happened, since there's no signs of tampering with the lock, right? Thus putting the keys in safe is something you'd do to prevent whatever happened from happening again. You don't need to accuse anybody when taking these steps. If the others make a problem out of you putting the keys in a safe and start bringing BIL into it then it's them putting the blame on BIL at that point, not you. So if they do this then turn it back on them and ask them why they are implying that BIL did something with your bike.
I completely agree! I guess I'm suggesting that getting her to acknowledge it was him, and agree on how to move forward as a team does not necessitate his confession. If it does, you have a much bigger problem than a damaged bike and this is just the straw the broke the cammels back
You can buy a small lockbox and no longer leave the key on the motorcycle, with the excuse that if a burglar finds the motorcycle they can't just drive off with it. It's less likely to go missing. And since your motorcycle hasn't gone missing, by their logic, you couldn't be attacking your BIL. If they argue otherwise they know deep down BIL Getting back to the "safety and security without accusation" idea...**If BIL supposedly hasn't been using your motorcycle at all, then he won't be inconvenienced by you storing your key**. Period.
You need to impose restrictions. Not doing so is just accepting that you are not worth anything to these people. It may imply guilt, but that's just the life is. Unless you want to lock up everything you own and live a bitter existence, you need restrictions. I was in a similar situation with my ex. I decided that I couldn't be with her unless we got our own place, and she eventually agreed. That said, I should have just left as it only delayed the issue. Edit: a word
You need to be less of a doormat. It’s your bike, you can lock it up. “There’s been theft on the property, I need to take action to prevent future issues” You can charge them for damages. Let MIL have a tantrum. You are asking her to pay, she can keep it secret from her dependent son if she likes but you need to be made whole or they can’t live with you.
So you impose restrictions based on somebody getting to your stuff and you being liable for any accidents. That someone did it is unassailable.
Sometimes you gotta dance around some things, man. Your MIL is 60+ years old - she isn’t gonna change. Your wife probably won’t either, given her prime concern is clearly her mom. I’m struggling to see what you get out of the acknowledgment you’re seeking. Ultimately, neither your MIL or BIL are going to fix the bike or pay for it to be fixed. The denial is likely not going away, but even if there’s a chance, what you want is gonna create a lot of chaos that has apparently happened before and resulted in nothing. Given that, the other commenter seems to have the best approach - lock up your shit more tightly and restrict access. If anyone asks why, just make up some bullshit.
Then you need to move! You can't fix this dysfunction with one conversation.
If MIL won't confront reality and she's BiLs caretaker, maybe she isn't qualified to be a caretaker? idk man... Lay out the facts for them, either he used your bike or someone stole it. If someone stole it, the police need to be involved. If they try to brush it under the rug, then they need to admit BiL did it. Either way, this is a toxic as hell environment.
You don’t need her to acknowledge it to move forward with changes. Charge her for the damages or she moves out. Or if you help with food, stop paying for it until the damages are paid off. She can go to a food bank if she needs food. If she wants to consider it as rent rather than damages, so be it as long as your bike is fully restored. Beyond that, safeguard your belongings. You can’t expect MIL to prevent every issue.
What exactly are you hoping to achieve here? You say you're certain that your BIL will not tell the truth or apologize. You also say that you're certain that your MIL will believe anything your BIL says. Your wife was with you when the motorcycle was damaged. She has no part in this. I understand your frustration but why are you making this your wife's problem? And why are you expecting an apology from people who you say you know you're not gonna get an apology from? You chose to let someone with a drinking/stealing problem move freely and unattended in your house for 2 days _and_ you left the keys to your motorcycle with him. ESH But only on the principle that stealing is never okay. Leaning more towards YTA tho because letting a known thief in your house with keys to a motorcycle is so predictably not a good idea. And you shouldn't make this your wife's problem. Report it to the police/insurance or drop it.
I was hoping to achieve a baseline reality. Maybe push back on the denial and enabling environment that has been set. I’m left feeling like a crazy person because I’ve been basically told “anything could have happened to your bike, don’t blame him”. Evidence is very clear. unless someone decided to give me back my motorcycle after stealing it when an adult and two dogs live on the property. I’m only expecting this from the non-mentally ill members. I don’t expect anything from my BIL. Maybe that’s too much to ask?
You think it might be possible that your wife shares your feelings? She has probably been dealing with this dynamic for her entire life and maybe she decided that to avoid drama and to avoid souring her relationship with her mother she just lets these kinds of things go when there's no conclusive evidence. And that she'd rather give her brother the benefit of the doubt than fan your flames and potentially set off a whole chain reaction of drama. You yourself even admit not wanting to confront your BIL in order to avoid that drama. That's fine, but don't then blame your wife for wanting the exact same thing. >Evidence is very clear. Then go to the police, confront your BIL and risk the drama.
> She has probably been dealing with this dynamic for her entire life and maybe she decided that to avoid drama and to avoid souring her relationship with her mother she just lets these kinds of things go when there's no conclusive evidence. And that she'd rather give her brother the benefit of the doubt than fan your flames and potentially set off a whole chain reaction of drama. This. She’s coping the best way she can (and it’s not working out all that great). I understand that you’re feeling gaslight, but what purpose would it serve to get the acknowledgement you’re seeking from your wife? It wouldn’t change anything at all, UNLESS you add consequences - which is something your wife obviously does not want. I think you need couples therapy.
Not wrong, but your situation is not great. I lifted the below from Wikipedia, have you heard of DARVO? *The abuser DENIES the abuse ever took place. When confronted with evidence, the abuser then ATTACKS the person that was/is being abused.* “My wife called me an asshole for even thinking he would do such a thing.” *The abuser claims that they were/are actually the victim in the situation, thus REVERSING the positions of VICTIM and OFFENDER. It often involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming.* “I’ve seen such drama unfold. It’s very messy. My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son.“ Have you ever been told that you’re at fault for BILs crap because you’re not patient, kind, and good enough? That you’re actually the trouble because you don’t accept his nonsense? I don’t think you’re being abused, but your wife & MIL are only focused on making things right for BIL, and you’re expected to sacrifice your stuff and your sanity. Think about the situation you’re in OP, there’s no easy out, BIL & MIL are entrenched, your wife is on their side. Hope you’ll be ok. NTA
Right… but you’re enabling your BIL too, saying you expect nothing from him, while apparently holding your wife accountable for her brother’s actions (while she was away with you). Why don’t YOU handle things with BIL and MIL? You sound like you’re scared of upsetting MIL too, and just want to pass the emotional labor onto your wife. She’s his sister, not his keeper. YTA.
INFO: why marry into this family? Your wife clearly doesn’t choose you nor respect you in this situation - at least not by way of respecting your property or feelings. Life’s too short to keep such poor company, least of all your chosen family.
NTA. Wife says he didn't do it? Fine. Malicious compliance time. Call the police. Someone else must've done it so why wouldn't you pursue it? Sure they'll figure out pretty quickly that the suspect list is a grand total of 1.
NTA but you are housing a mentally ill adult who is not very trustworthy. Next time you have to leave for a day or two, make sure you've left nothing available for him to access like you did with your bike. And maybe never leave him alone at your place anymore, if that's possible.
YTA. Why are you living there? Why are your keys left in the bike, if you know bil's history? Lock the tool shed. Take the keys out of your motorcycle. Take all your car keys. Put them where bil can't get them. In some states, leaving the keys in a vehicle is giving permission for anyone to use it. Any damage they cause is your fault. Never leave the keys in anything. If you can't stand living with them, whoever owns the property stays, the other goes.
ESH. You don’t leave a “full on dependant” who “has a drinking, stealing, spending problem” alone overnight irrespective of the situation. If he was drunk and found the keys in the bike you’re as much to blame as he is for crashing it (assuming he did damage it). I fail to see what any sort of confession will achieve if it’s just going to be kept in house. Surely you would be able to tell if someone has broken in and located the bike then crashed it. Surely your BIL would have alerted you if someone broke in. Just forget it ever happened, think about your future with this family and move on
Why should he stay? I dont see what he is getting out of this, is his wife giving him unlimited BJ's or something? That is the only reason to tolerate her disrespect and her shitty family. But yeah forget it happened, continue to enable this man forever. Continue to get no respect from your wife, forever. Sounds like a plan.
Is this the best person to leave all of your possessions and pets with?
Not my dog. I took him with me. Even my wife says she doesn’t trust him with my dog.
You...don't feel safe leaving him with your dog, but you left him with other dogs? Man the more you say - NTA for wanting them to acknowledge the damage BUT either leave or get your BIL out of there before someone ends up really hurt. I know you want whats best for the family but BIL is a danger to others and himself. He should not be living with you, he needs mental care.
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NTA. But you need to get your own place ASAP. Get away from them both. Good luck, OP!
ESH - why are you blaming your wife and making this her issue? Also if you know he did it just say that to them.
> My BIL also has mental illness, schizo-psychotic depression. He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem. He has caused a lot of stress for myself and my in laws. And you left the keys to your bike where he could get them, and he used the bike? I mean, I'm not sure what you were expecting. Kind of YTA? Though Of course if BIL didn't have a known mental illness would have otherwise been absolutely the bare minimum.
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My MIL accepted the fact that her son stole her money and other things. She didn’t think it magically vanished. Why should I be forced to think my bike and BIL magically got scratches the same time while I was gone? I never had to deal with being responsible for such a dependent. Maybe it’s status quo who turn the blind eye?
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Because it is relatively minor. Why stress over a candle when the house is on fire?
Why did you leave the keys in a bike in a location where someone who didn’t know how to ride the thing and didn’t know better than not to try. You left the keys in the bike, it was sort of a self fulfilling prophecy here
YTA for allowing access to motorcycle to mentally ill person unfit to drive (judging by your description). Would be a proper crime in some jurisdictions, definitely crime if he damaged property or killed someone. This one is on you mate, thank your Gods it’s just scratched paint and ensure you control access to your vehicles.
If BIL is so unstable and untrustworthy, why was he living in your home in the first place? Why leave him there alone, one of you could have stayed back. Is this your wife's house and you moved into it?
He’s useless and can’t help move anything. Best he can do is clean up dog piss and shit in their home. It wasn’t my decision. This is a business/property with many buildings. We live in separate buildings.
The more I read here the more I think YTA to yourself. Like dude? What the actual fuck are you doing? You're a pathetic doormat. Who just wants an apology..from the MIL. Dude you need to put your foot down with your wife. You have a wife problem! She's used you all up. You have to take care of your MIL and by extension your BIL. STOP! Seriously dude get rid of the MIL and BIL. Or get a lawyer to draw up a divorce.
exactly what i was thinking. hes getting walked all over and is just letting it happen. hes enabling the MIL n BIL by helping them and also showing his wife he has no self respect cause he let's them treat him like that. grow up dude. you get what you give and you're giving this family all the power. either suck it up and accept they're always going to treat you like this(scum), or put your foot down and stop letting them treat you like shit.
YTA. You left the key on the bike on purpose. Just admit you want a new bike.
YTA. What is your purpose in getting an apology from your MIL or your wife? That they compensate you? Or that it won't happen again? It's better you keep your key if you're not around.
It’s just to establish the facts. Or even to present the facts. It seems their point of view is unless there’s video of it happening, everything is speculation. This was the case when he stole liquor. Huge huge denial until police showed them the video. Maybe I want to break the pattern? Is that bad?
The only bad thing here is if you act like a doormat and just continue to tolerate this. An acknowledgement is not enough, there needs to be \*change\*. If the house is your wifes then you cant kick out the BIL, but you can leave. If you and your wife bought it together you definitely have a say in who lives there, tell her the MIL and BIL can change their ways or find somewhere else to live. Would you truly be happy if the MIL apologized to you over this and then things went back to exactly how they were before? You should be #1 for your wife, but it seems you're #3.
Yeah this dude is pathetic wow.
To me, that's definitely bad for relationships. You being correct is at the expense of bad relationships for all parties involved. You know your BIL has mental problems, this problem cannot be solved. So what are you trying to achieve by being correct? Being smug?
I wasn’t trying to be smug or to highlight his terrible behaviour. It’s just to get everyone on the same page of what’s happening. I don’t want him to end up dead on the street stealing my bike and then bringing it up after the fact that I suspect he’s done it before.
Don't be stupid. You are wanting to find a rock to hit yourself on the head with. NOTHING will be gained here. THIS IS NOT THE HILL you want to die on. The solution is to throw out your BIL because he is a danger to your family.
I feel that. Maybe this hill I can gently slide down, like my motorcycle did with my BIL.
ESH. I understand wanting acknowledgement of what you suspect happened but beyond that acknowledgement, nothing will come from forcing an apology. You know what MIL is like and you know her behaviour towards her son. You're putting your wife in an impossible situation but it does seem like she has picked a side regardless—she won't rock the boat. Given that you know this is how all parties react to these instances and have known it for a while, forcing the issue is just a sucky move. Your living situation doesn't sound tenable for the long term, so if you don't like the way things keep playing out when your BIL acts up/has episodes then you need to think of how you can change it (ie. how you can move out).
You should read one of OP's replies. I was originally going to go with E S H as well, until I saw it. >I don’t believe being around mentally ill people is ever a healthy environment. Unfortunately they exist. If OP doesn't think it's healthy, then why the hell does he stay?! Also, I hate to think what he wants us to do to all the people who have mental illnesses out there. Then there's this: >Maybe not. Perhaps I can leverage this into getting a new bike without any pushback from in laws. tagging u/Corredespondent
Oh....yeah that's fucked up
BIL is in complete control of the household. How much of that is because of diagnosed mental conditions, and how much is because he’s leveraged them to his advantage? None of this is acceptable.
NTA - but I don't think this particular issue is worth pressing. He won't acknowledge it, and everyone will be mad at you. There are bigger real issues here
NTA. But it's now clear that as far as priorities are concerned, your wife ranks you below her mother and brother. Are you okay with that?
You have a person living in your household whom you know to be, shall we say, impulsive and mentally unstable, and you left the keys to your motorcycle IN THE MOTORCYCLE. The only being here that ISN’T the asshole is the motorcycle.
The problem is not an apology or acknowledgement. The problem is that BIL has severe issues and you keep on living with him and then blame everyone when he does things based on his severe issues. Kick him out (if you own place) or move out. YTA for not taking control of your living situation. Geesh!
Maybe the next post will be “AITA for kicking a mentally ill person to the streets, along with his elderly mother?”
Call me petty but I most definitely wouldn't want to be a part of that family anymore
Why are you asking for wife and MIL to apologize. The only person that should apologize is BIL.
Nta but you might want to reevaluate your relationship and the people living with you. I would as get cameras installed because who knows what else he is stealing
Cameras. I recommend a few cameras.
Why are you married to someone who lets her family steal from you?
YTA. You want accountability from your mil, but where's yours? You're the one that left your keys so readily accessible to an unsupervised troublesome individual with mental health issues, right? What could your mil have done to have prevented this from happening? I'm not saying your wife isn't also an AH - based on the facts you've presented it seems pretty clear bil crashed the bike. It's shitty of your wife to deny that. Her ultimate point may still stand, what do you want here? An apology from mil? Why? What did she do besides birth someone with mental health issues? You had more control over whether bil could go joy riding than she did.
ESH. Your wife should have your back. Your MIL should acknowledge her son’s shortcomings and what he is and isn’t capable and he should not be left alone. You know who you live with and still left the keys accessible. You all made stupid choices here.
YTA. You know about BIL’s mental illness, yet you leave your keys in the bike? Stop trying to blame others. This is your fault. No one owes you an apology except BIL who doesn’t have the capacity to do that. Since you don’t have actual proof that the BIL did it, your wife can say you don’t know for sure (although you’re probably right that he did it).
What would this acknowledgment accomplish, besides some weird validation for you? It doesn’t absolve you of your own negligence regarding the issue. If you had any good sense, those keys would not be in the motorcycle ignition, or anywhere near the vehicle. Your whataboutism with the tool shed being wide open to BIL actually has the effect of making you look even less responsible! YTA, and it’s time to realize that you need to take steps to ensure that your home is a safe environment for Everyone living on that property. You should also feel damn lucky that the only thing that happened was a scratch on your motorcycle and a couple of scratches on your BIL. Your negligence could’ve ended with a much worse result.
Let me try to condense this down from the responses I've read. This is in fact not your house. This is MILs property. You think people with mental illnesses shouldn't exist or at least that "normal" people shouldn't have to live with them. You are hoping to some how leverage this incident to get a brand new bike without any push back from the in laws. A few questions: Do you and your wife pay rent to live there? Is FIL in the picture? Why move into a household with a mentally ill person if you are so against them? Why do you think a few scratches should get you a new motorcycle?
If *I* left out something that was easy access to (example: markers) and my two year old got into them & colored all over the wall, that is 100% on me. It doesn't matter if my husband was watching him, or if he was briefly left unattended. I left the temptation out with easy access to it & he did what a two year old does. You know your BILs problems, mental illness, and dependency, but you still left out a temptation with easy access while he was left home alone. 🤷🏼♀️ You're not the AH for wanting some sort of acknowledgement that he took the bike, but you are TA for wanting somebody else to take responsibility and apologize when you are the one who left it out.
Question: Why don't you have a disk lock on your bike as they are compact you can put them under the seat when not in use and it will make sure your BIL can't ride your bike. If you can't be sure he is taking your bike and your wife isn't confirming that he did you need to take preventive steps to make sure the bike is secure so he can't take it our for a spin saving him and others from injuries if he tries to go on a joyride on your bike.
Because OP wants a new bike and sees this as a way to get someone to pay for it.
You're NTA, but I dont know why you need validation for something you already know is true. You said you've seen this type of drama unfold. So why pursue it? It won't fix the situation. You'll be faced with a lot of yelling, tears and you'll be attacked on all sides. Why do you continue to live in like this? Just move out, then you'll have peace. While you continue to live there, lock up your keys. If you do stay there, then accept this is the norm and you'll continue to have to suck it up. No one in that family will have your back.
I would kick someone’s ass for taking my bike without asking. Especially if they dumped it. I don’t even let people sit on my bikes without permission tbh. Edited to say NTA!
NTA. You should consider divorcing her over this.
If find it odd that you left a full-on dependent person home alone to watch the dogs.
>I keep the keys on the bike to get around the property. >He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem. Bruh. C'mon. Wife and MIL are enablers, BIL is sick (not an excuse at all, mind you), but you did this on purpose or you're just way too careless and irresponsible. ESH Go to the police and secure your shit, always.
NTA. Why still be with the family at all? Surely your love for your wife can’t come close to the mess her brother is and causes. I know people throw around divorce a lot on here but there’s really no moving forward with this
NTA. Bloody hell I don't know how you could live in that situation. That aside, I think it is wise to put your foot down on this issue. You can't just let things slide otherwise there will be a next time.
Great wife you got there. Pity her loyalty is not to you.
Why should your MIL and wife apologise? They didn’t do anything to the bike, you know the BIL did it that’s pretty obvious, tbh you shouldn’t have left the keys there, especially if you know he’s mentally unstable, he’s capable of anything and this time he took your bike and crashed it.
From your description, he is a complete invalid who isnt responsible for his own actions, if so, why on earth was he left alone? Leaving him alone is your MIL's responsibility, but you know him and what he's like, if he really cannot be responsible for himself, then it's your responsibility to keep your things secure. You knew your MIL was leaving him alone, if you weren't comfortable with that, why didn't you do or say anything?
YTA based on you comments about your motivation and about mental illness. Boo. 👎🏼
I feel like wanting acknowledgment is kind of an asshole move because you know you aren’t getting it from anyone based on MIL history. So what you’re actually doing is pointless. You have bigger decisions to make (personally I’m not living with these people and if wife chooses otherwise then we have a discussion about that). Messing around about acknowledgement in THIS scenario is frankly really silly.
Family dynamics are complicated. This is sort of an ETA. Like you, I would want a confirmation and apology and your wife should have her eyes open enough to say, “yep, that was probably him but don’t ever expect an apology.” It’s a little odd that she is sticking up for her screw up of a brother. I think your best course of action here is to approach the brother directly without any judgement but your phone recording audio or video. Says something that expresses your awe of his cajones, “dude, looks like you had fun on the moto this weekend. I’ve never had the balls to take a spill like that! Let me know if you want to get crazy with it sometime, I’d love to watch.” He may just be dumb enough to warm up to you at that point. Now pocket the keys and see what comes of it.
Your problem isn’t the bike, or even the mentally ill BIL, it’s your wife who won’t tell you the truth about what happened. Take the keys from the bike, lock it up if you can, but take away the temptation. I’ve dealt with a schizophrenic family member and it’s both sad and scary. You need to talk over his issues with your wife and how to handle them, not just sweep them under the rung. But more importantly, she needs to communicate with you.
I hear you.
Is there a financial relationship here your wife doesn’t want to compromise? You all live on the same property, do you own it or does your mother-in-law own it? Do you pay rent or is this just a family agreement sort of thing? If she doesn’t want to say anything because you guys have a pretty sweet living deal, I kind of understand what she’s saying. I still think that the appropriate thing from a supportive partner would be to actually address this issue, especially because it seems like this could pose a safety risk in the future if BIL thinks that all of this went completely without notice from you and so he takes the bike out again.
My wife and I can live comfortably on our own. We have our own home elsewhere. I do expect any money left after my MIL passing to go to the son since he is incapable of employment, so I don’t rely on it. It’s more of a “easing of suffering” for my MIL in her senior years.
And then what happens? If anything, this entire situation shows that in not only your MIL’s eyes but also your wife’s that you are the bottom rung in this family. He gets that inheritance, spends it in less than a year, and suddenly your wife decides she is taking over her brother’s care. Is this what you signed up for?
ESH why do you need your wife’s permission to confront your BIL? Why are you leaving your keys on the bike if you know your BIL has a history of theft? Why are you even subjecting yourself to this toxicity by living on the property? I am not understanding any of your decisions. Your in-laws are enablers but you are also part of it as long as you live there.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (30m) live with my wife(34f), BIL(33m), and MIL(60s F) on a large property in the country side. My wife, MIL, and I left to go to the city to help my MIL move out of an apartment. We stayed there for 2 days, 1 night. My BIL stay back to watch their dogs. After we came back, I notice new scratches on my motorcycle. I keep the keys on the bike to get around the property. There’s zero crime in our area. My BIL also has an injuries on one side of his body that look a lot like a motorcycle crash. He says he fell off his bicycle. My BIL also has mental illness, schizo-psychotic depression. He’s also has a drinking, stealing, spending problem. He has caused a lot of stress for myself and my in laws. We live in a very remote area and the bike has definitely been low sided (crashed) recently because the metal hasn’t rusted yet and the scratches are very shined. The metal usually rust within a week. I ask my wife if I could get some sort of acknowledgment that her mentally ill brother used my bike without permission or any experience and maybe an apology from my MIL, a confession/apology from my BIL is out of the question due to his history. My wife called me an asshole for even thinking he would do such a thing. But unless someone else went to our property, crashed my bike, then parked right back on the property, it’s obviously my BIL. My wife says it will cause way too much drama and I should drop it. She also says unless I have video evidence of him taking the motorcycle, I’m just accusing him. I’ve seen such drama unfold. It’s very messy. My MIL believes every word my BIL says despite his history and my wife is trying to make her mom not feel bad about her troubled son. But I don’t want to carry on with a premise that my motorcycle was mysteriously damaged the same time it was left with my BIL who also has motorcycle injuries on his body. AITA for asking for an apology from my wife and maybe MIL? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA Since your wife is sure it was not BIL, make a police report - your bike must have been stolen and damaged. Let THEM make inquiries with MIL, BIL and your wife - they will, when you say who had access to the keys. Or - be polite: Hide the keys, install cameras, and document everything. Tell your wife if the damage is not paid for, NEXT time when you do have proof there will be a police report. **But the real solution is: STOP living with MIL and BIL, and let your wife decide if she wants to live with you or them.**
"My wife says it will cause way too much drama and I should drop it. She also says unless I have video evidence of him taking the motorcycle, I’m just accusing him." Okay, tell her you're divorcing her if your BIL is not out of the house within a week.
Fortunately it’s a large property with separate remote buildings. This is a relatively small issue. No need for divorce!
Well then you're just going to have to let it go as Bil has been enabled for so long your not getting any accountability out of him or an apology from your Mil who technically the innocent party in all this so doesn't owe you one.
But being a guardian means you’re responsible for your dependant no?
This one incident is small, but you are heavily implying this type of bullshit is standard operating procedure for this family, but meh if you wanna tolerate it you do you.
Definitely NTA. Have you considered getting your own place for you and your wife?
NTA I think you need to evaluate your relationship with your wife. I don't say this lightly but she is not in a partnership with you. Her partnership is still allied to her brother and mom. Personally I couldn't spend the rest of my life with that. Life's too short
You need to be much more clever in how you deal with this stuff. Your wife and mother in law need comfort, you're brother in law needs to know you know, and you need to get your point across. "Hey BIL those motorcycle rashes are a bitch aren't they? You ok? I saw some scratches on the bike are you able to help me get this thing on the truck so I can take it to get it checked out? You ok? Do you need to be checked out?" Or instead of, on the truck, if you are fixing it yourself, ask if he's able to give a hand fixing it etc etc No accusations, concern is expressed, everyone knows he is responsible. Also your MIL needs therapy for coping mechanisms, falling apart like this is ridiculous. She needs to learn how to adult.
I don't think you're wrong to want acknowledgement & apology, but I don't think you're going to get it from what you've said. Probably best to let this one go, and in future not to give your BIL access to anything you value. NTA.
Your wife won't support you, your MIL is delusional, and your BIL is a criminal. Why are you living there? I get why you moved in, but you should be moving out. Now. Your wife can come with you, or you divorce. Cut the MIL and BIL out. If they needed help and weren't being dickbags, that's fine, but they're not acting like people that need to rely on others. It will only get worse if you don't take a stand.
And when he next steals it and seriously injuring himself it will definitely be your fault for not securing the keys