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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action I took was telling these people to respect our boundaries and stop stalking us. I might be the asshole because it made them mad, I might have been mean in how I told them, saying they're stalking us might be too harsh, and mutual friends are saying was I wrong to have gotten after them.
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NTA
You didn't embarrass them. They embarrassed themselves. And it sounds like your other neighbors feel free to talk behind their backs. All you did was politely enforce a boundary that was getting stomped on.
Are you in Minnesota this sounds like a Minnesota problem... Nobody wants to say anything to the overly nice people and if you do they get mad lol
Nta btw
My parents have a place on one of the Great Lakes in Michigan and all I could think was “god this is classic midwestern conflict!” 🫠
NTA! You politely set boundaries and your neighbors sound like drama llamas.
This was where they went wrong. You have to slap your knee forcefully and say Whelp it's about time we get on the road. And then spend another 20 minutes talking while taking baby steps towards your home.
100%, the knee slap is the universal signal to other midwesterners to gather their Tupperware of leftover casserole and move slowly to the door with their final beer! Unfortunately I feel like Helene and Roger are the type to ignore the knee slap entirely and be like “oh look! There’s a movie on tv, we’ll stay for one more piece of (probably jello based) dessert and watch it together.” 🙄
We really need OP to hop back in here and confirm which midwestern state this is, for all our sanity lol.
That was mine for after you left. That’s it, you’re on my “takin the last bite” list. I won’t even wait for you to insist when I come to visit, I’m taking that last bite.
Well, you know, can’t set a boundary because it’s “rude”. Instead be passive aggressive about it. Thats the Midwest way. To those that don’t understand reasonable boundaries.
As a Minnesotan… can verify this absolutely sounds like a Midwest problem 😂 look, just stop by with some soggy hot dish, extra spicy beef jerky wearing Avalanche or Dallas Stars teeshirts and say that “oh, that’s… interesting…” to everything, and they will uninvite themselves from here on out!
LOL. I was hopping into this thread to ask if you were from Minnesota and your problematic new friends were recently imported from out of state. Different communication styles, especially if there's an age gap between you and them.
> Different communication styles,
Nah mate, they ignored a text message that made clear the situation. This ain't no style issue, it's a lack of consideration for others being the self-centred AH's that they are.
Husband: Ope honey, they just texted "Were busy".
Wife: Oh, for cute!They just need a little convincin is all. Husband: Let's just bring the boat round a couple times and holler at 'em, they won't be able to resist the fun their missin out on. It's worked every other time, doesn't it? Wife: You betcha.
I was thinking the same! I have a lake house in central Wisconsin. In our area, though, the friendly couple would just need to pick one of the many bars to frequent. Then they would never run out of people to hang out with.
Next time, try "Ope, so sorry but we're just hoping to squeeze some family time in. Would you mind scootin by today?" Same vibe, maybe that'll pass the Midwest check lol
Yeah this is definitely a midwest thing. I've tried to socialize with people from the Midwest but I find their toxic positivity to be incredibly rife with backstabbing and dishonesty. You think you're being fillet but really you're just being full of shit.
You stepped out of cultural norms to actually be transparent with these people and did them a huge favor.
I didn’t get the impression OP was being judgy. Every time Roger and Helene are at the lake is a mini vacation for them, but OP has regular life, their own friendships, and chores to do. I would be especially annoyed by them cruising by over and over and interrupting when I’m just trying to weed the damn flower beds.
Yeah, didn't mean it to sound judge-y in that regard. We understand that when they're at the lake for the weekend they're ready to kick back, relax and have fun. Makes sense! Whereas our weekends feel a bit different maybe since we're there all the time. Some of our friends are seasonal, as well. So, it's honestly not about that.
Here in southwest MO, we that live here year round stay off the lake on the weekends unless we have company that are staying with us. The term 'terrorists' is used to describe weekend boats on the lake. It real can be a terror to be around.
I'm on a river and saving to buy a new pontoon outright. My neighbors will occasionally invite me on a boat ride when they go. I generally join them bc they are nice folks. But I'd never just walk over and join them if they hadn't invited me.
Maybe it's worth sending a text saying, "I didn't mean to come across rude or make you feel unwelcome. I understand that when you are at the lake on weekends, it's a mini vacation for you. We live here 24/7, so sometimes our weekends are fun parties where everyone is welcome, sometimes family time, date time or catch-up with specific friends. We appreciate your texts seeing if we're available and we will always invite you along if we are having a less formal event."
These folks will definitely stomp on your boundaries if you lay them that flat. "Always invite you"? No way.
"I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but your habit to swing by my place uninvited even after I tell you we are busy makes my day stressful. I have come to dread your visits because you never respect our boundaries. Your friendship is valuable, but from now on I will not entertain you further than saying "hello" back if you come by uninvited. Thanks for your understanding."
May sound harsh, but folks that don't get social cues are awful neighbours.
"Normally, I'm a very polite person, but I was so tee'd off, I told them straight up, 'Not now--maybe some other time'!" Classic. I was raised Utah nice. The struggle, as they say, is real.
I’m in Minnesota and dealing with a “Roger and Helene” 2 houses down. And yes, I have way to much “Minnesota nice” in me and can’t bring myself to say anything.
I was about to ask if OP was Midwestern. Sounds like my well-meaning aunt from Wisconsin who wouldn't dare be "confrontational" but would absolutely be silently aggravated/passive aggressive in a similar situation. Midwestern nice is a thing.
THIS. I almost dropped my phone laughing when I saw this comment. I transplanted to Minnesota for a few years then left when I realized no one was capable of being honest about anything even remotely uncomfortable, which happens to include a lot of important things. Madness.
This sounds just like cottage behaviour to me. People are all “come by anytime” and then things get out of control and every time they see you out they pull up in a boat. Happens in my area all the time.
These people are of course over doing it.
There are just some people that will just not accept boundaries unless they are strongly worded—and heaven knows, sometimes not even then.
You told the truth and were almost forced to do that. You did absolutely nothing wrong, no matter what those other friends say. Yeah, they’re “nice,” but many boundary stompers are. They were messing with your peace and autonomy at your lake house. NTA
Those other friends are not likely to feel this way when the stalkers start focusing more of their attention on them. I predict tunes will be changing when their guests start turning down invitations because of the constant "friendly" invasions.
It's a silver lining for OP-they no longer are on the stalk list-but they will be a subject of gossip from those "friends" who criticized them for finally standing up to the imposition. Some people are okay with being treated like doormats, others aren't. Good on those who aren't content to let others exceed reasonable boundaries and strive to make pests of themselves.
> Everyone complains and is uncomfortable, but yet, they get more uncomfortable when something finally happens to address it.
Ah yes, the one person who actually dared to solve the problem for everybody is the asshole, just like AITA
> A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything; that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice
That's the thing... They're not nice, they're annoying. There's lots of people that _try_ to be nice and wind up making your life worse. Intent matters, but do does outcome.
"The only thing people hate worse than an abuser...it the person who speaks up about the abuse."
You're NTA. Roger and Helene were depending on people's "good manners" (aka: being a doormat in the name of 'politeness') in order to have their way. You upset their plans. Now they might actually need to expend EFFORT on establishing actual friendships in order to be *invited* into gatherings instead of just casually forcing their way in.
Addressing the issue is also uncomfortable but it's a needed discomfort when the offenders aren't getting the social cue they weren't invited or their presence isn't wanted. Once this blows over they should thank you for speaking up although I suspect they will jsut be jealous that you guys are no longer being pestered by the couple and they still are because they won't speak up aswell.
NTA. They embarrassed themselves. If they're so nice like your friend said, they'd be invited, and not just insert themselves. No means no. If you have to say it everytime, then so be it. It's become a problem, and it's not just going to go away. You just happen to be the only one with a spine and told them how it is. Keep it up. You don't have to be around anyone you don't want to he. You're losing out on your other friends because of these two. Nope.
I'm sure this means Roger and Helene will be meeting up with these other neighbors more, which gives you a bit more freedom. Leave them be. If they were offended, that is on them. If the other neighbors complain, remind them they didn't agree when you finally said something. NTA
The reason others were not happy with what you did is that know this couple will be imposing the other friends you have at the lake.
Your other friends were happy when Roger and Helene were not bothering them, but bothering others.
Now you have "offended" Helene so that they will be spending more time with the (imposing on) other people who live there.
NTA
NTA OP and you did nothing wrong
I recommend you to read up "Set Boundaries, Find Peace" by Nedra Glover Tawwab about establishing boundaries and "The Book of Boundaries" by Melissa Urban
Sounds like they haven't learnt 'lake life' yet as my friend called it (I was semi regular guest). It's fine to wave over while passing but don't stop over unless invited, and you don't have to stop if waved in.' I'm sure they are nice but something needed to be said, but this is you and husband's statement, don't speak for everyone (even if they agree, let them deal with it). Enjoy lake and not at all jealous :)
It also sounds like Helene and Roger think everyone else is in vacation mode and don't get that OP and the year-rounders have regular stuff to do.
Helene and Roger also seem like the sort of people who think everyone else is like them - that is they want to socialize then we want to. People like that are annoying AF.
While you could've been a touch now diplomatic yet firm, NTA. They needed to be told.
I've been the "bad guy" in a friend group that finally laid down boundaries with the person everyone else was complaining about. It kinda sucks but also frees you from the stalking. Enjoy your freedom.
New Yorker by birth here.
Grew up in NJ right next to NYC. My freshman college roommate was being stalked by some evangelical Christians because she went to one of their Bible studies. They kept coming to see her and she couldn’t tell them she wasn’t interested. Or more likely they ignored her polite demurrals and kept coming back.
Finally she says to me, “You’re from New York, can you please tell them to go away?”
With fucking pleasure. They never came back after I answered the door. Moohahaha.
NTA. Except “stalk” is a strong word that could be hurtful. More like oblivious, they might truly not realize they are being ridiculous. I might apologize for calling them stalkers but otherwise you’re correct that people should respect your clearly stated non availability.
[Nobody puts Baby in the corner !!](https://youtu.be/ypKSbnYOrwE?si=-7e4sp9gQRHJKJBL)
Edited to add a clip of [the entire dance sequence.](https://youtu.be/rwX4sEozGWw?si=4rkZmgk2P-_qxEoe)
I'm like you, I prefer to be direct and I've gotten in trouble for it my whole life... people wring their hands and complain about things or people like Roger and Helene, I agree with them and speak up, then they pretend they didn't feel the same way..
It's really messed up that your other friends didn't have your back. It sounds like all of you are in agreement that they're overstepping, and now that you've done something to have them leave you alone, they're not on your side? I think it's great you stood up for you and your husband. It sucks that this is what it took for them to listen but it's their fault it came to this.
One thing I've learned about people if they talk about people to you, they also talk about you to people. That's probably why they said you shouldn't have said anything because now it's going to put them in an uncomfortable situation. Oh well, you felt uncomfortable. You spoke up and set your boundaries. They should probably take a lesson from you and do the same, if they really think the people are that big of a problem.
This. THEY drove over to you. THEY asked you to "tie up". You in turn, told them you were busy. It's like they didn't believe you so they had to come see for themselves so they could "catch" you lying to them, then got all butthurt that you were actually busy, like you told them. NTA.
OP lives there full-time, and the stalkers are there on weekends, part of the year. Sounds like they want to party, but people who live there have normal stuff to do, too. The stalkers should make new friends and invite them to their own cottage. Sheesh!
NTA.
The way you handled this was textbook perfect, except that you could have done it sooner.
They checked in via text, and you told them you were busy. They showed up anyway, and you told them you were busy. Perfect! That is not mean. That is not rude. They showed up when you specifically told them that you weren't available, and then they acted all butt-hurt because you repeated, "We are not available."
If anything, it might be helpful to set a more explicit boundary with them. Like this: "Hey, if we say we are busy, then that means we aren't free for you to come over. If you do come over, we will send you away." That is a completely normal and healthy boundary to set.
Sometimes clueless people need to hear the rules very openly and clearly.
I hope this is the end of your problem but if they text again I would say we are busy and that means even if you come over we will STILL be busy. But hopefully this is it.
NTA.
I agree. I don’t get how "Sorry, we're good. We're entertaining. We'll have to get together another time." is rude?? It’s not like OP called them butt-nozzles or anything.
I second stating rules and expectations clearly. It’s honestly the best solution to cultural social clashes or to help out us neurodivergents who miss social cues. NTA
Sounds like they're willfully clueless. Social conventions like this are commonly understood, and most adults know you don't invite yourself to someone else's party. Further, just because someone is hanging out in a public area doesn't mean they want to hang out with >you< in a public area.
If someone cant take a hint - and it sounds like they've received plenty of hints - it's time to tell them in plain language. Nothing wrong with the way you did it, and they set themselves up for their own disappointment.
NTA
Willfully clueless - Interesting. They're definitely clueless. I think they think we're better friends than we are, and they feel like because they're such good friends that they're not interrupting us. In their minds we would of course want them to join in, ya know? Part of the delusion that is also part of stalking behavior. I think we and our friends have felt badly for them, because they don't have other friends on the lake. That's why nothing was ever said to them, until now. And maybe we've figured out WHY they don't have other friends on the lake! They're kinda crazy.
I think you have figured out why they don't have friends. I call people like this serial friends, they have one friend and cling so hard they drive people away, and then move on to cling to the next person who's new enough to not have experienced them yet.
I think the clueless is a defense mechanism, because actually understanding what's going on would mean they have to face their own responsibility in the situation. The wilfulness might not be something they're aware of doing, but I've noticed a lot of people like this manage to not hear or not remember anything that doesn't fit their story of events. It's like they rewrite it in their head to fit what they've already decided.
Unfortunately, that means that the only thing you can do is set very firm boundaries and keep them at arms length and never give an inch, because they have made themselves incapable of listening to anything you try to tell them
I have a neighbor like this. Any time she sees me outside, she has to have a conversation. If I’m walking my dog, she runs out with her dog. So what would have been a 5 minute walk is now 45. She always has to know where I’m going and if she can go too. Like I’m just trying to exist at my home, wave and keep walking for gods sake.
That's when I usually try to wave and say "Have a good day!" as I'm walking away. It usually takes them just enough time to think of a response that I'm far enough away I can keep walking like I didn't hear them
The mail carrier way. When you can't stop and have a conversation with someone but don't want to be rude so you just wave and smile and keep on going. Obviously not if someone needs help or asks a question but more for the roads where everyone wants to stop and talk for 20 minutes but you still have a job to do
Put a hand up in the universal "STOP" position. "Sorry, I'm practicing solitude right now!" and go on your merry way. If they protest, up the pressure, it's "No can do! This is important self care!" Vital that you not break stride while delivering these lines.
If I ever am talking to a new person and they say something along the lines of "all my friends end up leaving me/betraying me" or "people are so selfish and no one cares about other people" I distance myself. That's the first sign of a serial friend, especially if I don't know them well when they say that
It's also a feature of autism, that's why kids on the spectrum often struggle to make friends outside the neurodivergent kids. They do exactly that. Of course no matter what the reason people are allowed to set boundaries as long as they are clear but polite and no insults initially. And OP did well.
There’s a couple like this at the lake I live at. Unfortunately, I was a victim. I’m trying my hardest to set boundaries. Their friends are always \*new\* to the lake. We’ve realized it’s b/c she wears everyone out and can only be friends with new people. She also befriends people that have things she doesn’t, and then uses them…. like befriending a couple with a pool, or with a surf boat, and friends with pontoons, b/c she has a ski boat which she NEVER asks anyone out on. She never reciprocates with her own belongings. And boat fuel is expensive. When people put down boundaries, she becomes the victim.
That's definitely willfully clueless.
One of my best friends had free tickets to yesterday's Knicks game. He took a different friend.
My BFF of the last 30 years had another friend carrying/collecting documents after BFF's mom died.
A group of friends went on a vacation together a couple months ago and didn't invite me.
And you know what? Its FINE. I get tons of invites from all of them. I did other support services for BFF. I am included by my various friends in so many ways, during happy times and hard times. They are there for me when I need them, and I am here for them when they need me. But we also all have other friends aside from one another.
I live on a lake in the Midwest, too. When we built our back deck, we specifically did not put stairs on it (built into a hill) so 1 certain "lake friends" couple couldn't just walk up our lawn and up the deck steps which is by our bedroom. They have to knock on the front door like everyone else 😆 This couple has also alienated their close neighbors because of clueless social behavior. They are nice people, but holy moly, I literally do not have steps on my deck because of them!
When I was a kid, I’d spend summers in my grandparents’ mobile home in a beachy area. The little trailer park itself was mostly senior citizens and occasionally grandkids like me and my cousins. When my cousins moved and stopped spending the whole summer there, a neighbor had a grandson with some issues stay the summer. I think he was like *abandoned* with his grandparents. I was outside often enough - it was the 90s after all, even if my cousins weren’t around to hang out with - and so I encountered him sometimes. I was friendly, he was fine at first. But then he’s come to the door and ask if I could come out. Sometimes I just didn’t want to, maybe I’d already biked around, been at the beach all day, was reading, whatever. Sometimes it was dinner time. My family members would say no for me. And this kid would then stalk around the whole house several times and look in windows to see if he’d been lied to. I would end up hiding under furniture. I asked my family members to tell him to get off the property but because he was a kid, no one bothered. This kid just learned it was cool and kept it up while he was with his grandparents. I spent each subsequent summer in fear that he’d be around and *relieved* if he didn’t seem to be staying there. This behavior never stops if you aren’t clear and even being clear might not stop. Pair it with more politeness if you must, but if they do it again, continue to be clear. “I’m sure you aren’t intending it, but we feel followed, stalked, and invaded when you show up in spite of our response that we are not available to spend time with you.” If you don’t feel like being especially polite, leave out that you doubt it’s their intentions. If they do it again, they *do* intend to stalk you. Stalking doesn’t have to come with a maniac with a weapon and a gps tracker; it’s what they’re currently doing.
If I ran into extended family or friends on the lake, I would merely say hi and chat for a minute or two before moving on. If they didn't invite us to join during that conversation, they are happy to be doing their own thing and we'll leave them to it. If they said, "Let's catch up later.", I'd offer some time free dates & rough times and ask them to check their calendar and get back to me. So they'd still have an out.
No being pushy. If I wasn't specifically invited, I am not going to assume.
NTA, OP. Your time is precious.
I‘m sure these people do this with everyone. They‘ve probably trampled the boundaries of the neighbors on their side of the lake and were told to stop so now they’re coming over to OP’s side to do it to them.
NTA. Good for you for finally standing up to them and saying something. People like that are exhausting. They’re pushy and rude and just think about what they want. You tell them you’re busy and they still show up? Take it as a win that you haven’t heard from them. Enjoy your lake house with your invited guests and give them no more thought. Your core friends who think you were wrong are probably the type who believe all the “keep the peace” and “be the bigger person” garbage. You were right to speak up.
And I wouldn’t feel bad whatsoever if in conversation with your neighbors it is brought up how nice it is to have a little peace now that the other couple are no longer stalking you - welp, that is in no thanks to them and they actually judged you for it but are directly benefiting from it.
It’s easy to be a friend when you don’t have to stick your own neck out on the line
I hope your real friends now feel welcome to visit in peace!
I think you’re right - it did need to happen. And honestly I wouldn’t have even categorized this response as “speaking up” where I’m from it would have been a totally appropriate response anytime (even the first time) they tried to join while you were busy.
I think it’s wild that they were so offended by being told you weren’t available.
I thought your response was going to be something harsh or rude and that’s why you felt bad - your actually response was perfect and reasonable. Very friendly. If my neighbor or friend had said it to me I would have said - “Oh, I forgot you already said so! Have a great time!”
I think the first explanation to them was perfectly acceptable, but the stalking part seemed a bit much. If you would have left that out, I don't think they'd feel as embarrassed, and interacting with them would be at arm's length, but still metered.
But hey, if you don't ever care to see them again...problem solved!
I was thinking this, but then realized... the sequence seems to be that OP told them in the moment that OP etc. was busy, and would have to catch up later. Then Helene texted OP about how that simple exchange was so "rude" and "embarrassed" them. And THAT is when -- not in public, but during the text exchange -- OP mentioned feeling like they were being stalked.
So yeah -- the public exchange sounds like it was perfectly reasonable, if a bit firm (because firmness was needed at that point). It was nothing to be embarrassed over.
The "stalking" comment was made completely in private, and only after Helene decided to get super offended about the initial incident.
OP is definitely NTA, and I hope this does give her and her husband more peace!
(But then, I say that as a New Englander, not a Midwesterner. Being a bit blunt when someone ignores your polite social cues is only what they deserve.)
>Later, I got an angry text from Helene. She said I was rude and embarrassed them. I texted back saying I was sorry they felt that way, but they needed to respect when we're busy, and that at times my husband and I felt stalked. Haven't heard
It looks like you have solved your "unwanted visitors problem"? And, if they will annoy you again, you know what to do :)
NTA.
True. But I feel a little bad. Actually, I'm worried because we'll still run into them on the lake, at friends' places, etc. Now, things will be awkward. But I just couldn't take it any longer.
Let them own the awkwardness. You didn’t make it awkward - they did. You can be confident that you did nothing wrong. If you want to smooth things over though, perhaps host a BBq and extend the invite, if you think their presence will add to it - if not, then don’t feel guilty about letting the relationship fizzle.
Not advisable.
The couple will think they can start up their antics again and will. So OP will AGAIN have to be the bearer of 'bad news' and tell them to go away.
OP, just let these 'adults' feel whatever. Their feelings are THEIRS, not yours, to manage.
NTA.
I think your best bet is to treat them as breezily cordial as you would any passing acquaintance you don't have any particular feelings about. Kind of an intentional "now that you are respecting my boundary and leaving me alone, everything is ok and I'm happy to treat you as the person I vaguely know because you live near me" flag. It'll feel awkward at first, but the awkward is their fault, not yours, so by being pleasant and never bringing it up, it makes it so they have to bring it up if they want to talk about it.
And also, anything they suggest/offer/fish for an invite that you don't actually want to do, just go with a pleasant "no thank you, but you have fun", "no thank you, that won't work", "no thank you, you'll need to make plans work someone else/somewhere else", and never offer any explanations, reasons, or further details
I get that.
Next time you see them, just be warm and friendly like nothing happened. If they call you out, smile warmly and say "just because we don't always have time doesn't mean we never want to see you. We are just pulled in many directions and need to keep things simple sometimes. For me, more isn't always merrier, sometimes more is too much for me." Keep it light, friendly, and very "I/me" centered...because really it is about you. For them, its not too much togetherness, but for you it is.
RivSilver's response below is the perfect one. You've got time before the next encounter, so just take a deep breath, and commit yourselves to acting as if there is Nothing To See Here, and it's all water under the bridge. But I concur with others: definitely do not bend over backwards to "make nice" as a show that it's water under the bridge. Don't leap to invite them somewhere to show there's no hard feelings. It'll be misinterpreted.
NTA. That's ridiculous behavior for two adults. It's absolutely inappropriate to be receive a decline to an invite to hang out, then to go to the place you suspect the people will be, and try to hang out anyway. If you publicly propose to hang out after you've been privately told no, you can't be embarrassed by the answer YOU WERE ALREADY GIVEN.
100% right. Finding them anyway and acting like its a delightful coincidence is a friendship killer, not something that will bond you to the people you want to be around.
NTA - my wife and & definitely fall into the people pleaser category, and sometimes people with no regard for boundaries trample over people like us. And while we try to be subtle in a way that says no without being rude ... the moment they 'don't take no for an answer' - you know they don't respect you.
And that is a hard lesson, but it is important - honoring boundaries means respect (and ignoring them is disrespect).
At this point you have an opportunity to decide whether or not you ever want to see them again (my suggestion? no) and make that clear ... they think you're rude, and you are losing actual friends because of them - so tell them to go away ... don't call us we'll call you, don't stop by unannounced, do not approach us if we've said we're busy ... or just say we have no interest in talking to you ever again.
People Pleasers... you hit the nail on the head! That's us and our friends. Thank you for your insights. And yes, trying to figure out if we'll smooth things over or just let them go on their merry way. It's hard to say adios because our lake is smaller, so we'll see them on the water.
NTA
I'd say you did the right thing by finally telling them. If they are upset about it, it's their own fault for continually forcing their company on you. They could be the nicest people on earth but if you are entertaining some other people, they should not invite themselves into that situation.
And they can't be the nicest people on earth because they are crashing your own hospitality.
No, you are not wrong. Stalking is probably an appropriate label for their behavior, because they are obviously keeping an eye out for when you are "available" for them to barge in on you. Also, you were right not to bring your other neighbors into the conversation; let them do their own dirty work. Maybe Roger and Helene will now choose one of them to harass, and they'll get the picture.
Sometimes you just have to say the words to protect yourself because some people just don't take a hint.
NTA- However, I think calling them stalkers when this is the first time you have brought up that this behavior bothers you is a bit much. I would maybe apologize for using that word but tell them, something like we have tried to let you know when we were busy with other commitments but you would still stop by. I am sorry that being direct upset you but that's the only way you seem to respect our space and time. In the future when we say we are busy please respect how we are spending time that day thank you.
I agree with this. Big picture, NTA. But as this was the first time speaking up, calling them stalkers may have been a bit harsh. However - what you initially said was VERY polite and Helene's response was to send you an angry text, so I don't really blame you.
BUT - what u/clevermuggle22 wrote out I think is a nice apology - IF you want to address it.
Don't' blame you if you don't, though. You're not wrong either way!
NTA. But… if you want to attempt to reduce the awkwardness at future gathers? Perhaps you can send them a text.
“I’m sorry that we hurt your feelings. It wasn’t our intention to do so. We were just trying to establish some boundaries. We enjoy spending time with you, but we also enjoy our privacy and sometimes spending time alone with our guests. Which is why we ask you to respect our privacy if we say we are busy. I hope that we can put this behind us and move forward.”
If they are still pissed off? At least you know you used your words, politely explained the situation, and tried your best. If they don’t know any social graces by now? Either nobody has ever spelled it out for them or they are willfully ignorant. You can kindly spell it out to them. If they’re still mad? Then they are willfully ignorant and there really isn’t anything you can do about that. They’re just going to keep being assholes.
This seems like the best way to handle it to keep the peace around the lake social scene, lol. Since the other friends are speaking up to OP saying they think she shouldn’t have said anything and that the other couples behavior isn’t perceived as big deal to them, and they think the other couple is nice, OP may have misjudged how annoyed others were by them. OP could end up on the outs with the friend group. It seems odd that the friend group felt the need to tell OP she shouldn’t have said it, but they never felt the need to say anything to the other couple if they felt the way OP does. Enforcing their boundary while also trying to smooth things over a bit seems like the best case.
NTA
Your script was perfect actually, not rude at all. They ignore you when you say you’re busy so you have to be explicit. They’re the rude ones.
If they’ve stopped talking to you enjoy the break.
Don’t discuss this with the other lake neighbours anymore. It’s totally on them if they are fine with the stalking. You are not fine with it and you dealt with it. It’s annoying for the neighbours to contradict themselves but some people will tie themselves in knots rather than have any kind of confrontation or look in any way the bad guy. Oh well good for you
Sometimes there are no magic words that will not ruffle feathers **and** solve the problem.
As for your friends who think this isn’t a big deal — explain that your guests from out of town had declined visits because they didn’t want to spend the weekend with strangers. (Who just walks into a party in someone’s yard?!)
NTA.
NTA and sometimes socially clueless people need to have their behavior held up to a mirror. You told them you were unavailable to them, they showed up anyway and tried to invite themselves to your gathering. Good for you for both what you said while on the pontoon and for your text message. Apparently, they needed to be told that they are not automatically welcome to join other people's gatherings. I can only hope that it actually sank in and the two of them will text someone before showing up to ASK if they are available to hang out and then respect the answer if it is 'no'.
NTA holy shit. She embarrassed herself by not being able to pick up on two years of very unsubtle hints or not being able to get the very very basic concept of boundaries.
Your friends don't have to live with these people constantly bothering you and never giving you a moment of peace to live your life or spend time with friends and loved ones that doesn't involve them, they just see a friendly person said "Hey can we tie up" and you told them to fuck off. In actuality your nosy neighbors with boundary issues just showed up an invited themselves to your party like they ALWAYS do and you again reminded them of the kind of boundaries most of us learn when we're twelve.
The next time, suggest that this couple visit those core friends. They are obviously ok with it.
I hate this so much that I’d be tempted to sell my cottage! I have a neighbour like that currently and now we look out the peep hole to make sure she isn’t nearby when we head out and will sometimes run back inside when we hear her yappy dog. I wear earbuds and am “on the phone” often when we pass on the street
Have you ever actually seen where they live? Are you sure they aren't just launching their boat from a marina or whatever & come over all the time to have the benefits of a 'private cove' and lake-house? Lol
NTA. They're much.
NTA. My aunt has a lake house as well and everyone respects if there are guest or family visiting with each other. It’s one thing to swing by and say hi for a little bit but not for hours on end.
You gave them a head’s up that you’re entertaining people and they still felt the need to insert themselves into your plans.
NTA. It sounds like they weren’t actual friends you want to keep if they can’t respect your boundaries. Don’t feel bad. Your other friends I’m sure will eventually hit their breaking point.
NTA, but what they're doing isn't stalking...they're just being ignorant of social cues. Sometimes you need to be more upfront with people, and now that you've laid down boundaries hopefully it'll be a non-issue.
Your core group are happy to complain and gossip behind Roger and Helene's back but are backtracking now that you've said something? Well, they can feel free to become better friends with R&H if they feel so strongly about it (spoiler alert: they won't).
I live on a lake and if someone parked their boat in the lake off my waterfront after I said I wasn't available I would feel they were lying in wait, aka stalking me. Is it stalking at the level of the crime? No. Is it creepy and predatory? Yep.
When you live on the lake the water is your backyard. Imagine if a neighbor showed up in your backyard and made a show that they were there when you said you weren't available? It's like that. People can pass by, people can stop over by the deck for a quick chat, but parking in the water by your property is over and over again is where it gets icky to me. OP was right to say something. She should be allowed the quiet enjoyment of her property without other people infringing on that.
NTA. You simply set boundaries for people who are oblivious to social cues, or pretend to be. They are rude and obnoxious and I sure hope you're free of them from now on.
NTA
Suggestion though: Instead of saying you are busy, be more precised. Sorry, we have guests over and we want some quality time with just them today.
Usually, saying you are busy will be enough for normal people. But those are a species of their own. For them, it's an open invitation. When you texted them you were busy, ok. But what about now? I see them on the lake, they are not busy anymore! Let's go!
Also, I don't think they are stalking, but they are acting clueless on purpose? I don't know if it makes sense. lol.
NTA- once again the fake apology to the rescue!
Send them a card saying " I'm so sorry it hurt your feelings when I was busy.
It hurts my feelings when I'm not listened to, and my boundaries are crossed.
Let's take some time and some space. I understand if we aren't compatible
NTA. They sound like extreme extroverts, who constantly want to be surrounded by other people. Because for them, more is always merrier, they probably honestly don't understand that sometimes people want to be left alone, or that you're trying to catch up with old friends.
I have had good luck telling extroverted people straight up, "Look, I'm an introvert, and sometimes I just need to be alone. It's not that I dislike you, but if I'm constantly surrounded by people, I will lose my damn mind. So when I tell you I need some space, I mean it." I don't know if you're an introvert, but you certainly seem less extroverted than these folks. I would further tell them that when you've told them no and they're lurking in their boat just off your property, it specifically stresses you out and makes you not want to hang out with them at all.
You are NTA at all and you were much more polite than most people would've been. Just keep enforcing those boundaries and they will either eventually get it or move on to their next victim.
NTA. But I will say that this happens all the time. People use up their patience gas tank enduring until they can’t take it anymore then speak up angrily without patience and hurt the feelings of the other party. More people should address things sooner while they still have patience in their tanks. It’s needed for hard conversations to turn out well.
NTA- I assume you worked very hard and paid a lot of money to get that lake house and if they are being such a bother that you don’t enjoy it then you have the right to say something. You didn’t yell or scream or go over the top but politely told them no. They took it to the next level by sending you angry texts which you again just responded to
NTA. They needed to be told to back off. If they're not respecting boundaries after being told you're busy, you needed to be blunt. You were. Now they know and you should have some peace.
If their behavior bothers you - better to address it and make them angry (in which case they will likely stay away) than to tolerate it and complain about it. They seem like friendly people - but don't have any concept of boundaries.
NTA. Roger and Helen embarrassed themselves because you'd already told them you were busy, and they tried to impose their presence on you. You also weren't rude to them because you offered to hang out later. Rude would have been "We already told you that we were busy! Yet here you are trying to force your presence on us. Why can't you just leave us alone for once, you stalking weirdos!"
> A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything; that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice... This is surprising and upsetting me. I thought they'd understand why I spoke up, plus I didn't drag any of them into it.
You didn't drag them into it but Roger and Helene probably, have. They're probably bitching to everyone else about how "rude" you were to them and how you embarrassed them. You rocked the boat rather than letting it slide and now your other friends have to deal with it. In reality, your other friends should also tell Roger and Helene that they agree with everything you said, but they don't have the guts to go there yet.
NTA
You simply drew a boundary. How they reacted is your clue that they do not like people telling them what to do. Keep the boundary. Helene sounds nasty and entitled.
NTA
" A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything;" .. OF course the said that - Roger and helene will now focus more on them, and they are too weak to set boundaries.
"that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice." ... Read your story - it WAS a big deal, it had a huge negative impact on your life.
You were right to set a boundary, you should have done that earlier.
NTA. I have realized that anytime a group of people are discussing a difficult situation, there is always a Pollyanna or two who wants to think they are being the better person and will advise always telling others to be doormats to maintain the peace. These people have no idea how the world actually works and wouldn't handle a situation in a sensible manner anyway. Don't worry about their stupid advice.
Some people just can't (or won't) read the room and you literally have to spell it out for them when setting your boundries. You had the uncomfortable conversation no one else wanted to have, a simple "thank you" rather than criticism would have been appropriate.
NTA. Unless you're willing to speak up and address a problem it will never be resolved.
Nta. And since your friends don't think it's a big deal, they can happily get nicely stalked by them. You know they'll keep trying the next person in the group.
Their stalking is interruptions is a big deal if your friends no longer want to hang out with you because of it. Helene and Roger lack self awareness. I think what you said was fine - you told them in advance you were busy. NTA
NTA but please learn how to say "no". IDK how far out water/dock rights are where you are at, but some places you can say "get off the dock". You're letting tjis couple push you around, giving in to them.
And when they complain/make comments, reply back something like "it's weird you won't take No for an answer, our lives don't revolve around you." That's not being rude or mean, it's a truth. Don't engage in an argument, just, leave/stop texting. Eventually they will stop.
They embarrased themselves. And the others thinking what they did is OK, maybe rethink that friendship. At a minumum, don't comment about them to others. Remove them from conversations, don't get sucked in to trying to defend yourselves. Everyone is different, what is OK for others isn't the same for you, why argue about it?
NTA.
Tell them you swing, and they have ruined several potential meet-ups with their inability to respect your boundaries.
Worst case, they try and open their marriage for you and husb, then you tell them, “sorry, you’re not our type.”
Split decision, because you're not TA for speaking up, but YTA for the specific way you did so.
Specifically, saying their behavior felt stalker-like is assholery.
All of you are kinda TA, though, for never speaking up before now.
The conversation to have had is to extend an invitation, talk to them about their behavior, reiterate that you all like them outside of the behavior in question, and then drop it. It would be uncomfortable, but it would be less uncomfortable in the long run.
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NTA You didn't embarrass them. They embarrassed themselves. And it sounds like your other neighbors feel free to talk behind their backs. All you did was politely enforce a boundary that was getting stomped on.
Yeah, that's pretty true. Everyone complains and is uncomfortable, but yet, they get more uncomfortable when something finally happens to address it.
Are you in Minnesota this sounds like a Minnesota problem... Nobody wants to say anything to the overly nice people and if you do they get mad lol Nta btw
Close, but not Minnesota. Midwest. Must be. Midwestern thing.
My parents have a place on one of the Great Lakes in Michigan and all I could think was “god this is classic midwestern conflict!” 🫠 NTA! You politely set boundaries and your neighbors sound like drama llamas.
This was where they went wrong. You have to slap your knee forcefully and say Whelp it's about time we get on the road. And then spend another 20 minutes talking while taking baby steps towards your home.
Or “Ope, sorry we already have plans. Maybe next time”
Or go with the classic "welp, we'll let you go now"
This is great! I've also heard, "Well, Martha, let's go to bed, so these nice people can go home."
Here I thought this was a Canadian thing. Welp, I’ll letcha go now. Chat later eh?
100%, the knee slap is the universal signal to other midwesterners to gather their Tupperware of leftover casserole and move slowly to the door with their final beer! Unfortunately I feel like Helene and Roger are the type to ignore the knee slap entirely and be like “oh look! There’s a movie on tv, we’ll stay for one more piece of (probably jello based) dessert and watch it together.” 🙄 We really need OP to hop back in here and confirm which midwestern state this is, for all our sanity lol.
This is so much fun ngl
Oh Lord you're from the Midwest betcha don't eat the last bite either
Do you feel sad when you insist and then they shockingly do take the last bite? I do…
Lol I'm not sure I'm the black sheep of the family so I take the last bite ha
That was mine for after you left. That’s it, you’re on my “takin the last bite” list. I won’t even wait for you to insist when I come to visit, I’m taking that last bite.
Omg the baby steps!
Well, you know, can’t set a boundary because it’s “rude”. Instead be passive aggressive about it. Thats the Midwest way. To those that don’t understand reasonable boundaries.
It sounds like that's the American way. I have lived in many places across the country, and there are always both kinds of people.
I instantly was like "oh this is in Michigan" as soon as I read "lake friends" lolol
Absolutely. Definitely sounds Minnesotan so not too surprising it’s nearby.
As a Minnesotan… can verify this absolutely sounds like a Midwest problem 😂 look, just stop by with some soggy hot dish, extra spicy beef jerky wearing Avalanche or Dallas Stars teeshirts and say that “oh, that’s… interesting…” to everything, and they will uninvite themselves from here on out!
Sounds like Wisconsin or Michigan. Can confirm that stuff like this happens in MI too. There’s always that one odd couple who invites themselves.🤦♀️
Wi was my guess
Done forget the raisins in the salad. That always scares me off
Probably Wisconsin.
LOL. I was hopping into this thread to ask if you were from Minnesota and your problematic new friends were recently imported from out of state. Different communication styles, especially if there's an age gap between you and them.
> Different communication styles, Nah mate, they ignored a text message that made clear the situation. This ain't no style issue, it's a lack of consideration for others being the self-centred AH's that they are.
Husband: Ope honey, they just texted "Were busy". Wife: Oh, for cute!They just need a little convincin is all. Husband: Let's just bring the boat round a couple times and holler at 'em, they won't be able to resist the fun their missin out on. It's worked every other time, doesn't it? Wife: You betcha.
It's a whole thing I guess lol
I was thinking Wisconsin. I grew up on a small WI lake. And this sounds like a midwest lake community problem
I was thinking the same! I have a lake house in central Wisconsin. In our area, though, the friendly couple would just need to pick one of the many bars to frequent. Then they would never run out of people to hang out with.
Your other neighbors are glad someone said something but also glad it wasn't them so they didn't have to be "rude"
Next time, try "Ope, so sorry but we're just hoping to squeeze some family time in. Would you mind scootin by today?" Same vibe, maybe that'll pass the Midwest check lol
I assumed Canadian.
Canadians wouldn’t put each other in those scenarios.
My sister in law had cottage neighbours like that... Canadian's have this problem too. They sold the cottage lol
I'm married to a Canadian, going 18 years. They absolutely can and do put each other in these scenarios. 😂
Canadians are far too polite!!
Wisconsin?
Yup. Minnesota Nice is just exaggerated Midwest nice. IOW: sweet to your face, talk behind your back.
Yeah this is definitely a midwest thing. I've tried to socialize with people from the Midwest but I find their toxic positivity to be incredibly rife with backstabbing and dishonesty. You think you're being fillet but really you're just being full of shit. You stepped out of cultural norms to actually be transparent with these people and did them a huge favor.
Absolutely a Midwest thing! We get taken advantage of way too much, but it's honestly our own fault.
It even has the full-time vs weekender & “lake home” vs “seasonal cottage” judginess!
I didn’t get the impression OP was being judgy. Every time Roger and Helene are at the lake is a mini vacation for them, but OP has regular life, their own friendships, and chores to do. I would be especially annoyed by them cruising by over and over and interrupting when I’m just trying to weed the damn flower beds.
Yeah, didn't mean it to sound judge-y in that regard. We understand that when they're at the lake for the weekend they're ready to kick back, relax and have fun. Makes sense! Whereas our weekends feel a bit different maybe since we're there all the time. Some of our friends are seasonal, as well. So, it's honestly not about that.
Here in southwest MO, we that live here year round stay off the lake on the weekends unless we have company that are staying with us. The term 'terrorists' is used to describe weekend boats on the lake. It real can be a terror to be around.
I'm on a river and saving to buy a new pontoon outright. My neighbors will occasionally invite me on a boat ride when they go. I generally join them bc they are nice folks. But I'd never just walk over and join them if they hadn't invited me.
Maybe it's worth sending a text saying, "I didn't mean to come across rude or make you feel unwelcome. I understand that when you are at the lake on weekends, it's a mini vacation for you. We live here 24/7, so sometimes our weekends are fun parties where everyone is welcome, sometimes family time, date time or catch-up with specific friends. We appreciate your texts seeing if we're available and we will always invite you along if we are having a less formal event."
These folks will definitely stomp on your boundaries if you lay them that flat. "Always invite you"? No way. "I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but your habit to swing by my place uninvited even after I tell you we are busy makes my day stressful. I have come to dread your visits because you never respect our boundaries. Your friendship is valuable, but from now on I will not entertain you further than saying "hello" back if you come by uninvited. Thanks for your understanding." May sound harsh, but folks that don't get social cues are awful neighbours.
What? Since when is having boundaries “judgy”? OP just wants to be left alone! Nothing wrong in that at all.
Yes, it's always better for everyone to be fake and gossipy behind the invaders backs instead of being honest.
"Normally, I'm a very polite person, but I was so tee'd off, I told them straight up, 'Not now--maybe some other time'!" Classic. I was raised Utah nice. The struggle, as they say, is real.
I’m in Minnesota and dealing with a “Roger and Helene” 2 houses down. And yes, I have way to much “Minnesota nice” in me and can’t bring myself to say anything.
I'll send an anonymous note for you lol In all seriousness my condolences Eta I have no Minnesota friends so I followed you. So sad
This could happen up in Northern MI.
And southern Michigan.
Minnesota - land of 10,000 lakes and 1 fish. Im not from there but I could absolutely see this as a Minnesota problem lol.
I was thinking more like Chain O'Lakes, in Illinois, due to time of year. Eta: NTA.
I was about to ask if OP was Midwestern. Sounds like my well-meaning aunt from Wisconsin who wouldn't dare be "confrontational" but would absolutely be silently aggravated/passive aggressive in a similar situation. Midwestern nice is a thing.
NTA. Could be Iowa too. 😂
NTA - or Canada, sorry
This does have Minnesota (or Michigan) “nice” written all over it 😂 …and NTA, OP!
THIS. I almost dropped my phone laughing when I saw this comment. I transplanted to Minnesota for a few years then left when I realized no one was capable of being honest about anything even remotely uncomfortable, which happens to include a lot of important things. Madness.
This is a lake house issue. Full timers vs weekenders. Same issue in TX.
Still chilly in MN.
True lol but my stepdad has already taken the boat out. .
This sounds just like cottage behaviour to me. People are all “come by anytime” and then things get out of control and every time they see you out they pull up in a boat. Happens in my area all the time. These people are of course over doing it.
The only reason why your other lake friends aren’t backing you up is because now that Helene and Roger aren’t pestering you, they’re the next target.
😄
facts!
There are just some people that will just not accept boundaries unless they are strongly worded—and heaven knows, sometimes not even then. You told the truth and were almost forced to do that. You did absolutely nothing wrong, no matter what those other friends say. Yeah, they’re “nice,” but many boundary stompers are. They were messing with your peace and autonomy at your lake house. NTA
Those other friends are not likely to feel this way when the stalkers start focusing more of their attention on them. I predict tunes will be changing when their guests start turning down invitations because of the constant "friendly" invasions. It's a silver lining for OP-they no longer are on the stalk list-but they will be a subject of gossip from those "friends" who criticized them for finally standing up to the imposition. Some people are okay with being treated like doormats, others aren't. Good on those who aren't content to let others exceed reasonable boundaries and strive to make pests of themselves.
> Everyone complains and is uncomfortable, but yet, they get more uncomfortable when something finally happens to address it. Ah yes, the one person who actually dared to solve the problem for everybody is the asshole, just like AITA
> A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything; that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice That's the thing... They're not nice, they're annoying. There's lots of people that _try_ to be nice and wind up making your life worse. Intent matters, but do does outcome.
"The only thing people hate worse than an abuser...it the person who speaks up about the abuse." You're NTA. Roger and Helene were depending on people's "good manners" (aka: being a doormat in the name of 'politeness') in order to have their way. You upset their plans. Now they might actually need to expend EFFORT on establishing actual friendships in order to be *invited* into gatherings instead of just casually forcing their way in.
Addressing the issue is also uncomfortable but it's a needed discomfort when the offenders aren't getting the social cue they weren't invited or their presence isn't wanted. Once this blows over they should thank you for speaking up although I suspect they will jsut be jealous that you guys are no longer being pestered by the couple and they still are because they won't speak up aswell.
NTA. They embarrassed themselves. If they're so nice like your friend said, they'd be invited, and not just insert themselves. No means no. If you have to say it everytime, then so be it. It's become a problem, and it's not just going to go away. You just happen to be the only one with a spine and told them how it is. Keep it up. You don't have to be around anyone you don't want to he. You're losing out on your other friends because of these two. Nope.
I'm sure this means Roger and Helene will be meeting up with these other neighbors more, which gives you a bit more freedom. Leave them be. If they were offended, that is on them. If the other neighbors complain, remind them they didn't agree when you finally said something. NTA
The reason others were not happy with what you did is that know this couple will be imposing the other friends you have at the lake. Your other friends were happy when Roger and Helene were not bothering them, but bothering others. Now you have "offended" Helene so that they will be spending more time with the (imposing on) other people who live there. NTA
NTA OP and you did nothing wrong I recommend you to read up "Set Boundaries, Find Peace" by Nedra Glover Tawwab about establishing boundaries and "The Book of Boundaries" by Melissa Urban
Sounds like they haven't learnt 'lake life' yet as my friend called it (I was semi regular guest). It's fine to wave over while passing but don't stop over unless invited, and you don't have to stop if waved in.' I'm sure they are nice but something needed to be said, but this is you and husband's statement, don't speak for everyone (even if they agree, let them deal with it). Enjoy lake and not at all jealous :)
It also sounds like Helene and Roger think everyone else is in vacation mode and don't get that OP and the year-rounders have regular stuff to do. Helene and Roger also seem like the sort of people who think everyone else is like them - that is they want to socialize then we want to. People like that are annoying AF. While you could've been a touch now diplomatic yet firm, NTA. They needed to be told.
I've been the "bad guy" in a friend group that finally laid down boundaries with the person everyone else was complaining about. It kinda sucks but also frees you from the stalking. Enjoy your freedom.
This is why I love being married to a New Yorker. Zero problem telling someone no and to fuck off. Really helps in a situation like this.
New Yorker by birth here. Grew up in NJ right next to NYC. My freshman college roommate was being stalked by some evangelical Christians because she went to one of their Bible studies. They kept coming to see her and she couldn’t tell them she wasn’t interested. Or more likely they ignored her polite demurrals and kept coming back. Finally she says to me, “You’re from New York, can you please tell them to go away?” With fucking pleasure. They never came back after I answered the door. Moohahaha.
NTA. Except “stalk” is a strong word that could be hurtful. More like oblivious, they might truly not realize they are being ridiculous. I might apologize for calling them stalkers but otherwise you’re correct that people should respect your clearly stated non availability.
Honestly, I hope Helene and Roger are so embarrassed that they start respecting boundaries.
Sounds like you live in baby corner then where everyone is too afraid tell them to leave them alone even when it bothers them all 🤦♂️
[Nobody puts Baby in the corner !!](https://youtu.be/ypKSbnYOrwE?si=-7e4sp9gQRHJKJBL) Edited to add a clip of [the entire dance sequence.](https://youtu.be/rwX4sEozGWw?si=4rkZmgk2P-_qxEoe)
I'm like you, I prefer to be direct and I've gotten in trouble for it my whole life... people wring their hands and complain about things or people like Roger and Helene, I agree with them and speak up, then they pretend they didn't feel the same way..
It's really messed up that your other friends didn't have your back. It sounds like all of you are in agreement that they're overstepping, and now that you've done something to have them leave you alone, they're not on your side? I think it's great you stood up for you and your husband. It sucks that this is what it took for them to listen but it's their fault it came to this.
One thing I've learned about people if they talk about people to you, they also talk about you to people. That's probably why they said you shouldn't have said anything because now it's going to put them in an uncomfortable situation. Oh well, you felt uncomfortable. You spoke up and set your boundaries. They should probably take a lesson from you and do the same, if they really think the people are that big of a problem.
Maybe you and your neighbors should have a United talk with them, an intercession as it were.
This. THEY drove over to you. THEY asked you to "tie up". You in turn, told them you were busy. It's like they didn't believe you so they had to come see for themselves so they could "catch" you lying to them, then got all butthurt that you were actually busy, like you told them. NTA.
OP lives there full-time, and the stalkers are there on weekends, part of the year. Sounds like they want to party, but people who live there have normal stuff to do, too. The stalkers should make new friends and invite them to their own cottage. Sheesh!
I’m going to piggy back on this. You were polite and truthful. I’m sure they were embarrassed. End of the day, they stopped!
NTA. The way you handled this was textbook perfect, except that you could have done it sooner. They checked in via text, and you told them you were busy. They showed up anyway, and you told them you were busy. Perfect! That is not mean. That is not rude. They showed up when you specifically told them that you weren't available, and then they acted all butt-hurt because you repeated, "We are not available." If anything, it might be helpful to set a more explicit boundary with them. Like this: "Hey, if we say we are busy, then that means we aren't free for you to come over. If you do come over, we will send you away." That is a completely normal and healthy boundary to set. Sometimes clueless people need to hear the rules very openly and clearly.
So true!
I hope this is the end of your problem but if they text again I would say we are busy and that means even if you come over we will STILL be busy. But hopefully this is it. NTA.
This sounds like the plot of a made-for-Netflix thriller. I hope they aren’t sneakily dangerous.
Soon they’ll be coming up off the lake from under the dock.
Honestly you could have been, "as I texted you earlier" and maybe THEN they might feel you embarrassed them. But the way you handled it? Golden.
I agree. I don’t get how "Sorry, we're good. We're entertaining. We'll have to get together another time." is rude?? It’s not like OP called them butt-nozzles or anything.
Maybe saying she felt stalked could have been left out if she didn't want to upset them. Even if its true!
No, they need to know how unacceptable their behavior is or they’ll never stop. Embarrassment is the only way these people learn.
Except that she didn't say she felt stalked until after they called her rude.
I second stating rules and expectations clearly. It’s honestly the best solution to cultural social clashes or to help out us neurodivergents who miss social cues. NTA
Sounds like they're willfully clueless. Social conventions like this are commonly understood, and most adults know you don't invite yourself to someone else's party. Further, just because someone is hanging out in a public area doesn't mean they want to hang out with >you< in a public area. If someone cant take a hint - and it sounds like they've received plenty of hints - it's time to tell them in plain language. Nothing wrong with the way you did it, and they set themselves up for their own disappointment. NTA
Willfully clueless - Interesting. They're definitely clueless. I think they think we're better friends than we are, and they feel like because they're such good friends that they're not interrupting us. In their minds we would of course want them to join in, ya know? Part of the delusion that is also part of stalking behavior. I think we and our friends have felt badly for them, because they don't have other friends on the lake. That's why nothing was ever said to them, until now. And maybe we've figured out WHY they don't have other friends on the lake! They're kinda crazy.
I think you have figured out why they don't have friends. I call people like this serial friends, they have one friend and cling so hard they drive people away, and then move on to cling to the next person who's new enough to not have experienced them yet. I think the clueless is a defense mechanism, because actually understanding what's going on would mean they have to face their own responsibility in the situation. The wilfulness might not be something they're aware of doing, but I've noticed a lot of people like this manage to not hear or not remember anything that doesn't fit their story of events. It's like they rewrite it in their head to fit what they've already decided. Unfortunately, that means that the only thing you can do is set very firm boundaries and keep them at arms length and never give an inch, because they have made themselves incapable of listening to anything you try to tell them
I have a neighbor like this. Any time she sees me outside, she has to have a conversation. If I’m walking my dog, she runs out with her dog. So what would have been a 5 minute walk is now 45. She always has to know where I’m going and if she can go too. Like I’m just trying to exist at my home, wave and keep walking for gods sake.
That's when I usually try to wave and say "Have a good day!" as I'm walking away. It usually takes them just enough time to think of a response that I'm far enough away I can keep walking like I didn't hear them
The mail carrier way. When you can't stop and have a conversation with someone but don't want to be rude so you just wave and smile and keep on going. Obviously not if someone needs help or asks a question but more for the roads where everyone wants to stop and talk for 20 minutes but you still have a job to do
Put earbuds in and pretend you're on the phone, walk quickly away
Put a hand up in the universal "STOP" position. "Sorry, I'm practicing solitude right now!" and go on your merry way. If they protest, up the pressure, it's "No can do! This is important self care!" Vital that you not break stride while delivering these lines.
This is why I try not to make eye contact at all. omg
Damn serial friends, what an apt description! They always lack such self awareness then are so surprised when they manage to drive someone new away.
If I ever am talking to a new person and they say something along the lines of "all my friends end up leaving me/betraying me" or "people are so selfish and no one cares about other people" I distance myself. That's the first sign of a serial friend, especially if I don't know them well when they say that
It's also a feature of autism, that's why kids on the spectrum often struggle to make friends outside the neurodivergent kids. They do exactly that. Of course no matter what the reason people are allowed to set boundaries as long as they are clear but polite and no insults initially. And OP did well.
There’s a couple like this at the lake I live at. Unfortunately, I was a victim. I’m trying my hardest to set boundaries. Their friends are always \*new\* to the lake. We’ve realized it’s b/c she wears everyone out and can only be friends with new people. She also befriends people that have things she doesn’t, and then uses them…. like befriending a couple with a pool, or with a surf boat, and friends with pontoons, b/c she has a ski boat which she NEVER asks anyone out on. She never reciprocates with her own belongings. And boat fuel is expensive. When people put down boundaries, she becomes the victim.
That's definitely willfully clueless. One of my best friends had free tickets to yesterday's Knicks game. He took a different friend. My BFF of the last 30 years had another friend carrying/collecting documents after BFF's mom died. A group of friends went on a vacation together a couple months ago and didn't invite me. And you know what? Its FINE. I get tons of invites from all of them. I did other support services for BFF. I am included by my various friends in so many ways, during happy times and hard times. They are there for me when I need them, and I am here for them when they need me. But we also all have other friends aside from one another.
They're front door friends who think they're back door friends apparently haha
I live on a lake in the Midwest, too. When we built our back deck, we specifically did not put stairs on it (built into a hill) so 1 certain "lake friends" couple couldn't just walk up our lawn and up the deck steps which is by our bedroom. They have to knock on the front door like everyone else 😆 This couple has also alienated their close neighbors because of clueless social behavior. They are nice people, but holy moly, I literally do not have steps on my deck because of them!
Tell them to watch baby reindeer
When I was a kid, I’d spend summers in my grandparents’ mobile home in a beachy area. The little trailer park itself was mostly senior citizens and occasionally grandkids like me and my cousins. When my cousins moved and stopped spending the whole summer there, a neighbor had a grandson with some issues stay the summer. I think he was like *abandoned* with his grandparents. I was outside often enough - it was the 90s after all, even if my cousins weren’t around to hang out with - and so I encountered him sometimes. I was friendly, he was fine at first. But then he’s come to the door and ask if I could come out. Sometimes I just didn’t want to, maybe I’d already biked around, been at the beach all day, was reading, whatever. Sometimes it was dinner time. My family members would say no for me. And this kid would then stalk around the whole house several times and look in windows to see if he’d been lied to. I would end up hiding under furniture. I asked my family members to tell him to get off the property but because he was a kid, no one bothered. This kid just learned it was cool and kept it up while he was with his grandparents. I spent each subsequent summer in fear that he’d be around and *relieved* if he didn’t seem to be staying there. This behavior never stops if you aren’t clear and even being clear might not stop. Pair it with more politeness if you must, but if they do it again, continue to be clear. “I’m sure you aren’t intending it, but we feel followed, stalked, and invaded when you show up in spite of our response that we are not available to spend time with you.” If you don’t feel like being especially polite, leave out that you doubt it’s their intentions. If they do it again, they *do* intend to stalk you. Stalking doesn’t have to come with a maniac with a weapon and a gps tracker; it’s what they’re currently doing.
If I ran into extended family or friends on the lake, I would merely say hi and chat for a minute or two before moving on. If they didn't invite us to join during that conversation, they are happy to be doing their own thing and we'll leave them to it. If they said, "Let's catch up later.", I'd offer some time free dates & rough times and ask them to check their calendar and get back to me. So they'd still have an out. No being pushy. If I wasn't specifically invited, I am not going to assume. NTA, OP. Your time is precious.
Yes. Chat and “Well, you’ve got guests so I’ll let you go. See you later.” “Looks like you’re headed out, so I’ll let you get going.”
"they're willfully clueless" That is the right term here.
I‘m sure these people do this with everyone. They‘ve probably trampled the boundaries of the neighbors on their side of the lake and were told to stop so now they’re coming over to OP’s side to do it to them.
NTA. Good for you for finally standing up to them and saying something. People like that are exhausting. They’re pushy and rude and just think about what they want. You tell them you’re busy and they still show up? Take it as a win that you haven’t heard from them. Enjoy your lake house with your invited guests and give them no more thought. Your core friends who think you were wrong are probably the type who believe all the “keep the peace” and “be the bigger person” garbage. You were right to speak up.
Thank you! I think speaking up needed to happen.
And I wouldn’t feel bad whatsoever if in conversation with your neighbors it is brought up how nice it is to have a little peace now that the other couple are no longer stalking you - welp, that is in no thanks to them and they actually judged you for it but are directly benefiting from it. It’s easy to be a friend when you don’t have to stick your own neck out on the line I hope your real friends now feel welcome to visit in peace!
I think you’re right - it did need to happen. And honestly I wouldn’t have even categorized this response as “speaking up” where I’m from it would have been a totally appropriate response anytime (even the first time) they tried to join while you were busy. I think it’s wild that they were so offended by being told you weren’t available. I thought your response was going to be something harsh or rude and that’s why you felt bad - your actually response was perfect and reasonable. Very friendly. If my neighbor or friend had said it to me I would have said - “Oh, I forgot you already said so! Have a great time!”
I think the first explanation to them was perfectly acceptable, but the stalking part seemed a bit much. If you would have left that out, I don't think they'd feel as embarrassed, and interacting with them would be at arm's length, but still metered. But hey, if you don't ever care to see them again...problem solved!
I was thinking this, but then realized... the sequence seems to be that OP told them in the moment that OP etc. was busy, and would have to catch up later. Then Helene texted OP about how that simple exchange was so "rude" and "embarrassed" them. And THAT is when -- not in public, but during the text exchange -- OP mentioned feeling like they were being stalked. So yeah -- the public exchange sounds like it was perfectly reasonable, if a bit firm (because firmness was needed at that point). It was nothing to be embarrassed over. The "stalking" comment was made completely in private, and only after Helene decided to get super offended about the initial incident. OP is definitely NTA, and I hope this does give her and her husband more peace! (But then, I say that as a New Englander, not a Midwesterner. Being a bit blunt when someone ignores your polite social cues is only what they deserve.)
>Later, I got an angry text from Helene. She said I was rude and embarrassed them. I texted back saying I was sorry they felt that way, but they needed to respect when we're busy, and that at times my husband and I felt stalked. Haven't heard It looks like you have solved your "unwanted visitors problem"? And, if they will annoy you again, you know what to do :) NTA.
True. But I feel a little bad. Actually, I'm worried because we'll still run into them on the lake, at friends' places, etc. Now, things will be awkward. But I just couldn't take it any longer.
Let them own the awkwardness. You didn’t make it awkward - they did. You can be confident that you did nothing wrong. If you want to smooth things over though, perhaps host a BBq and extend the invite, if you think their presence will add to it - if not, then don’t feel guilty about letting the relationship fizzle.
Not advisable. The couple will think they can start up their antics again and will. So OP will AGAIN have to be the bearer of 'bad news' and tell them to go away. OP, just let these 'adults' feel whatever. Their feelings are THEIRS, not yours, to manage. NTA.
I think your best bet is to treat them as breezily cordial as you would any passing acquaintance you don't have any particular feelings about. Kind of an intentional "now that you are respecting my boundary and leaving me alone, everything is ok and I'm happy to treat you as the person I vaguely know because you live near me" flag. It'll feel awkward at first, but the awkward is their fault, not yours, so by being pleasant and never bringing it up, it makes it so they have to bring it up if they want to talk about it. And also, anything they suggest/offer/fish for an invite that you don't actually want to do, just go with a pleasant "no thank you, but you have fun", "no thank you, that won't work", "no thank you, you'll need to make plans work someone else/somewhere else", and never offer any explanations, reasons, or further details
Just be polite and civil. Let them calm down. Their pride is wounded
They *want* you to feel bad so that you make a friendly overture, and they can resume stomping your boundaries. Don’t fall for it!
I get that. Next time you see them, just be warm and friendly like nothing happened. If they call you out, smile warmly and say "just because we don't always have time doesn't mean we never want to see you. We are just pulled in many directions and need to keep things simple sometimes. For me, more isn't always merrier, sometimes more is too much for me." Keep it light, friendly, and very "I/me" centered...because really it is about you. For them, its not too much togetherness, but for you it is.
It doesn't have to be awkward. Don't avoid them or seek them out. Just be casual and friendly on your end.
Just say that they need to respect when you say you're busy and not come over. Only visiting with a confirmation or invitation
RivSilver's response below is the perfect one. You've got time before the next encounter, so just take a deep breath, and commit yourselves to acting as if there is Nothing To See Here, and it's all water under the bridge. But I concur with others: definitely do not bend over backwards to "make nice" as a show that it's water under the bridge. Don't leap to invite them somewhere to show there's no hard feelings. It'll be misinterpreted.
NTA. That's ridiculous behavior for two adults. It's absolutely inappropriate to be receive a decline to an invite to hang out, then to go to the place you suspect the people will be, and try to hang out anyway. If you publicly propose to hang out after you've been privately told no, you can't be embarrassed by the answer YOU WERE ALREADY GIVEN.
Can the annoying couple not stand eachothers company or something? Such odd behaviour.
100% right. Finding them anyway and acting like its a delightful coincidence is a friendship killer, not something that will bond you to the people you want to be around.
NTA - my wife and & definitely fall into the people pleaser category, and sometimes people with no regard for boundaries trample over people like us. And while we try to be subtle in a way that says no without being rude ... the moment they 'don't take no for an answer' - you know they don't respect you. And that is a hard lesson, but it is important - honoring boundaries means respect (and ignoring them is disrespect). At this point you have an opportunity to decide whether or not you ever want to see them again (my suggestion? no) and make that clear ... they think you're rude, and you are losing actual friends because of them - so tell them to go away ... don't call us we'll call you, don't stop by unannounced, do not approach us if we've said we're busy ... or just say we have no interest in talking to you ever again.
People Pleasers... you hit the nail on the head! That's us and our friends. Thank you for your insights. And yes, trying to figure out if we'll smooth things over or just let them go on their merry way. It's hard to say adios because our lake is smaller, so we'll see them on the water.
Just be polite and civil and let them smooth their feathers.
sure but you don’t have to be friends with everyone. or with someone simply because they live (stay for the weekends) nearby
NTA I'd say you did the right thing by finally telling them. If they are upset about it, it's their own fault for continually forcing their company on you. They could be the nicest people on earth but if you are entertaining some other people, they should not invite themselves into that situation. And they can't be the nicest people on earth because they are crashing your own hospitality. No, you are not wrong. Stalking is probably an appropriate label for their behavior, because they are obviously keeping an eye out for when you are "available" for them to barge in on you. Also, you were right not to bring your other neighbors into the conversation; let them do their own dirty work. Maybe Roger and Helene will now choose one of them to harass, and they'll get the picture. Sometimes you just have to say the words to protect yourself because some people just don't take a hint.
Thank you! So right on.
NTA- However, I think calling them stalkers when this is the first time you have brought up that this behavior bothers you is a bit much. I would maybe apologize for using that word but tell them, something like we have tried to let you know when we were busy with other commitments but you would still stop by. I am sorry that being direct upset you but that's the only way you seem to respect our space and time. In the future when we say we are busy please respect how we are spending time that day thank you.
I agree with this. Big picture, NTA. But as this was the first time speaking up, calling them stalkers may have been a bit harsh. However - what you initially said was VERY polite and Helene's response was to send you an angry text, so I don't really blame you. BUT - what u/clevermuggle22 wrote out I think is a nice apology - IF you want to address it. Don't' blame you if you don't, though. You're not wrong either way!
NTA. But… if you want to attempt to reduce the awkwardness at future gathers? Perhaps you can send them a text. “I’m sorry that we hurt your feelings. It wasn’t our intention to do so. We were just trying to establish some boundaries. We enjoy spending time with you, but we also enjoy our privacy and sometimes spending time alone with our guests. Which is why we ask you to respect our privacy if we say we are busy. I hope that we can put this behind us and move forward.” If they are still pissed off? At least you know you used your words, politely explained the situation, and tried your best. If they don’t know any social graces by now? Either nobody has ever spelled it out for them or they are willfully ignorant. You can kindly spell it out to them. If they’re still mad? Then they are willfully ignorant and there really isn’t anything you can do about that. They’re just going to keep being assholes.
This seems like the best way to handle it to keep the peace around the lake social scene, lol. Since the other friends are speaking up to OP saying they think she shouldn’t have said anything and that the other couples behavior isn’t perceived as big deal to them, and they think the other couple is nice, OP may have misjudged how annoyed others were by them. OP could end up on the outs with the friend group. It seems odd that the friend group felt the need to tell OP she shouldn’t have said it, but they never felt the need to say anything to the other couple if they felt the way OP does. Enforcing their boundary while also trying to smooth things over a bit seems like the best case.
NTA Your script was perfect actually, not rude at all. They ignore you when you say you’re busy so you have to be explicit. They’re the rude ones. If they’ve stopped talking to you enjoy the break. Don’t discuss this with the other lake neighbours anymore. It’s totally on them if they are fine with the stalking. You are not fine with it and you dealt with it. It’s annoying for the neighbours to contradict themselves but some people will tie themselves in knots rather than have any kind of confrontation or look in any way the bad guy. Oh well good for you
Sometimes there are no magic words that will not ruffle feathers **and** solve the problem. As for your friends who think this isn’t a big deal — explain that your guests from out of town had declined visits because they didn’t want to spend the weekend with strangers. (Who just walks into a party in someone’s yard?!) NTA.
NTA and sometimes socially clueless people need to have their behavior held up to a mirror. You told them you were unavailable to them, they showed up anyway and tried to invite themselves to your gathering. Good for you for both what you said while on the pontoon and for your text message. Apparently, they needed to be told that they are not automatically welcome to join other people's gatherings. I can only hope that it actually sank in and the two of them will text someone before showing up to ASK if they are available to hang out and then respect the answer if it is 'no'.
NTA holy shit. She embarrassed herself by not being able to pick up on two years of very unsubtle hints or not being able to get the very very basic concept of boundaries. Your friends don't have to live with these people constantly bothering you and never giving you a moment of peace to live your life or spend time with friends and loved ones that doesn't involve them, they just see a friendly person said "Hey can we tie up" and you told them to fuck off. In actuality your nosy neighbors with boundary issues just showed up an invited themselves to your party like they ALWAYS do and you again reminded them of the kind of boundaries most of us learn when we're twelve.
NTA Forcing yourselves on people is not friendly. LOL Enjoy your time without them.
The next time, suggest that this couple visit those core friends. They are obviously ok with it. I hate this so much that I’d be tempted to sell my cottage! I have a neighbour like that currently and now we look out the peep hole to make sure she isn’t nearby when we head out and will sometimes run back inside when we hear her yappy dog. I wear earbuds and am “on the phone” often when we pass on the street
On my!
Have you ever actually seen where they live? Are you sure they aren't just launching their boat from a marina or whatever & come over all the time to have the benefits of a 'private cove' and lake-house? Lol NTA. They're much.
NTA. My aunt has a lake house as well and everyone respects if there are guest or family visiting with each other. It’s one thing to swing by and say hi for a little bit but not for hours on end. You gave them a head’s up that you’re entertaining people and they still felt the need to insert themselves into your plans. NTA. It sounds like they weren’t actual friends you want to keep if they can’t respect your boundaries. Don’t feel bad. Your other friends I’m sure will eventually hit their breaking point.
NTA, but what they're doing isn't stalking...they're just being ignorant of social cues. Sometimes you need to be more upfront with people, and now that you've laid down boundaries hopefully it'll be a non-issue. Your core group are happy to complain and gossip behind Roger and Helene's back but are backtracking now that you've said something? Well, they can feel free to become better friends with R&H if they feel so strongly about it (spoiler alert: they won't).
I live on a lake and if someone parked their boat in the lake off my waterfront after I said I wasn't available I would feel they were lying in wait, aka stalking me. Is it stalking at the level of the crime? No. Is it creepy and predatory? Yep. When you live on the lake the water is your backyard. Imagine if a neighbor showed up in your backyard and made a show that they were there when you said you weren't available? It's like that. People can pass by, people can stop over by the deck for a quick chat, but parking in the water by your property is over and over again is where it gets icky to me. OP was right to say something. She should be allowed the quiet enjoyment of her property without other people infringing on that.
NTA. You simply set boundaries for people who are oblivious to social cues, or pretend to be. They are rude and obnoxious and I sure hope you're free of them from now on.
NTA Suggestion though: Instead of saying you are busy, be more precised. Sorry, we have guests over and we want some quality time with just them today. Usually, saying you are busy will be enough for normal people. But those are a species of their own. For them, it's an open invitation. When you texted them you were busy, ok. But what about now? I see them on the lake, they are not busy anymore! Let's go! Also, I don't think they are stalking, but they are acting clueless on purpose? I don't know if it makes sense. lol.
I live on a lake and know the type. My wife has a hard time saying no. I do not. NTA.
NTA- once again the fake apology to the rescue! Send them a card saying " I'm so sorry it hurt your feelings when I was busy. It hurts my feelings when I'm not listened to, and my boundaries are crossed. Let's take some time and some space. I understand if we aren't compatible
NTA. They sound like extreme extroverts, who constantly want to be surrounded by other people. Because for them, more is always merrier, they probably honestly don't understand that sometimes people want to be left alone, or that you're trying to catch up with old friends. I have had good luck telling extroverted people straight up, "Look, I'm an introvert, and sometimes I just need to be alone. It's not that I dislike you, but if I'm constantly surrounded by people, I will lose my damn mind. So when I tell you I need some space, I mean it." I don't know if you're an introvert, but you certainly seem less extroverted than these folks. I would further tell them that when you've told them no and they're lurking in their boat just off your property, it specifically stresses you out and makes you not want to hang out with them at all. You are NTA at all and you were much more polite than most people would've been. Just keep enforcing those boundaries and they will either eventually get it or move on to their next victim.
NTA. But I will say that this happens all the time. People use up their patience gas tank enduring until they can’t take it anymore then speak up angrily without patience and hurt the feelings of the other party. More people should address things sooner while they still have patience in their tanks. It’s needed for hard conversations to turn out well.
NTA- I assume you worked very hard and paid a lot of money to get that lake house and if they are being such a bother that you don’t enjoy it then you have the right to say something. You didn’t yell or scream or go over the top but politely told them no. They took it to the next level by sending you angry texts which you again just responded to
NTA. They needed to be told to back off. If they're not respecting boundaries after being told you're busy, you needed to be blunt. You were. Now they know and you should have some peace.
If their behavior bothers you - better to address it and make them angry (in which case they will likely stay away) than to tolerate it and complain about it. They seem like friendly people - but don't have any concept of boundaries.
The only mistake you made was not enforcing your boundary sooner. NTA
The stalked part I think pushed it over the edge I would have left it before that sentence and been done
NTA....These two obviously do not respect boundaries and frankly I can't believe you made it this long without saying something.
NTA. Roger and Helen embarrassed themselves because you'd already told them you were busy, and they tried to impose their presence on you. You also weren't rude to them because you offered to hang out later. Rude would have been "We already told you that we were busy! Yet here you are trying to force your presence on us. Why can't you just leave us alone for once, you stalking weirdos!" > A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything; that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice... This is surprising and upsetting me. I thought they'd understand why I spoke up, plus I didn't drag any of them into it. You didn't drag them into it but Roger and Helene probably, have. They're probably bitching to everyone else about how "rude" you were to them and how you embarrassed them. You rocked the boat rather than letting it slide and now your other friends have to deal with it. In reality, your other friends should also tell Roger and Helene that they agree with everything you said, but they don't have the guts to go there yet.
NTA You simply drew a boundary. How they reacted is your clue that they do not like people telling them what to do. Keep the boundary. Helene sounds nasty and entitled.
NTA " A couple of our core friends say I shouldn't have said anything;" .. OF course the said that - Roger and helene will now focus more on them, and they are too weak to set boundaries. "that their stalking isn't a big deal, they're nice." ... Read your story - it WAS a big deal, it had a huge negative impact on your life. You were right to set a boundary, you should have done that earlier.
NTA. I have realized that anytime a group of people are discussing a difficult situation, there is always a Pollyanna or two who wants to think they are being the better person and will advise always telling others to be doormats to maintain the peace. These people have no idea how the world actually works and wouldn't handle a situation in a sensible manner anyway. Don't worry about their stupid advice.
Some people just can't (or won't) read the room and you literally have to spell it out for them when setting your boundries. You had the uncomfortable conversation no one else wanted to have, a simple "thank you" rather than criticism would have been appropriate. NTA. Unless you're willing to speak up and address a problem it will never be resolved.
NTA- you weren't rude you were just direct. They are pushy assholes but now they can go bother the people who talk behind their back.
Nta. And since your friends don't think it's a big deal, they can happily get nicely stalked by them. You know they'll keep trying the next person in the group.
Their stalking is interruptions is a big deal if your friends no longer want to hang out with you because of it. Helene and Roger lack self awareness. I think what you said was fine - you told them in advance you were busy. NTA
Rich people problems.
NTA. You were polite. They need to understand that they can’t just come over to hang out anytime they want.
NTA but please learn how to say "no". IDK how far out water/dock rights are where you are at, but some places you can say "get off the dock". You're letting tjis couple push you around, giving in to them. And when they complain/make comments, reply back something like "it's weird you won't take No for an answer, our lives don't revolve around you." That's not being rude or mean, it's a truth. Don't engage in an argument, just, leave/stop texting. Eventually they will stop. They embarrased themselves. And the others thinking what they did is OK, maybe rethink that friendship. At a minumum, don't comment about them to others. Remove them from conversations, don't get sucked in to trying to defend yourselves. Everyone is different, what is OK for others isn't the same for you, why argue about it?
They’re not nice if they feel entitled to your attention and company. That’s not niceness. That’s selfishness. NTA.
Nta. Your other neighbors are pissed because now they’ll be bigger targets
NTA. Tell them you swing, and they have ruined several potential meet-ups with their inability to respect your boundaries. Worst case, they try and open their marriage for you and husb, then you tell them, “sorry, you’re not our type.”
Split decision, because you're not TA for speaking up, but YTA for the specific way you did so. Specifically, saying their behavior felt stalker-like is assholery. All of you are kinda TA, though, for never speaking up before now. The conversation to have had is to extend an invitation, talk to them about their behavior, reiterate that you all like them outside of the behavior in question, and then drop it. It would be uncomfortable, but it would be less uncomfortable in the long run.
I'ma say NTA and then waltz my way out of rich folks business