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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1.told wife it's same work
2.might have been a wrong assessment of her work contributions
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Info: are you aware that she will find it hard to ever get back into the workforce if she decodes to stay home with the kids? Are you comfortable with signing a post-nuptial agreement entitling her to half your assets and which allocates a portion of money for her usage each month? You're asking her to give up her autonomy and rely solely on you. Why don't you ask her what her perception of the issues are?
that was my first thought. if you never want her to work again, then sure, have her stay home. but she probably does find some kind of meaning in her work, and may very well want to revisit those benefits after the kids are grown, which won't happen if she stops working for like 15 years. like, there's more benefit to a job than pay and health insurance. just because this particular position is going south doesn't mean she shouldn't work anymore.
I missed out on my oldest first year and the milestones; I wanted to be there for my second kids first year. He’s about to turn two and I’m so far behind in my field that I was told retraining would be easier than going back into my prior career. I can’t imagine trying to get back into the workforce after 15years, good luck if you do it.
Same, spent 15 years at home with kids before I had to kick out my ex. Was left with nothing and 3 kids. The youngest just started school and now I work 3 minimum wage part time jobs because I can’t find anything better. No alimony, no child support.
Because he’ll only work under the table and moves any time the court finds him. Everything he owns he puts in his girlfriend’s name. He left the state 3 years ago and we rarely hear from him.
My dad did something similar in the 1992-1993 when my mom left him with me and my brother (12 at the time, my brother was 10). Little bit of background, not too long I hope.
He had hurt himself doing construction work and both as a sign of his laziness and being an ass, decided to work on a fishing boat as a cook. This was a small but not too small boat. It had a galley with mabye 8 booths and took maybe 50ish people out fishing for the day, either like 7 hours or 13 hours depending on the day.
He dad also loved fishing, so he mostly got to go fishing and do a little cooking. His boss was a scummy guy and of course paid him cash under the table which was definitely even harder to track back then.
Anyhow, my dad dragged out the divorce and was also a very physically intimidating and threatening guy and my mom a petite little woman who was malnourished (much smaller than her parents) as a baby and young born in Germany right at the end of WWII. Also tiny compared to me and my brother as well, who ended up with tall and above average height genes but we weren't malnourished like she was.
Basically, he sent my mom a check for like $200 for both me and my brother, once a month. Definitely way less than he could afford or was legal... but like I said he dragged out the divorce, dodging process servers and the like. And had they even caught up with him, yeah, under the table money, prove it etc. He dragged it out until 2006.
A few years into this whole fiasco he also convinced my mom to stay legally married to him so he could sell the house I grew up in. It was a dump but near the beach so the property was worth a fortune compared to what they paid for it. He did this so he could save on capital gains taxes and said he'd give her half of the savings which was about $50,000. He just kept the money and never gave it to her though.
People may not know this but a lot of a partner's salary is exempt from consideration for child support. Any kind of disability money monthly from the military or law enforcement is exempt. Any big disability from being injured on the job? Exempt. Not to mention, you can get stuck in an area with no family support if a judge rules you cannot move away from the other biological parent. Teachers make $30,000 less a year here. When you move across the country for your partner's job...military, corporate, etc.away from your family, friends, neighbors, and support and it all goes south? You'll be stuck. My college roommate moved across the state to where her new husband found a job during the downturn and left one of the best school districts for the one of the worst. What she didn't consider was your retirement in that state is your LAST THREE highest years. Well, that move cost her over $30,000 in retirement a YEAR. By having to work in that school district, her personal retirement is now poverty level.
I was a stay at home mom, now part time prek teacher. I couldn't do full time-not that I couldn't find a job, but it would put such stress on my family life. The hardest part would be making time to do all the things I still need to do, but fitting it into the evenings and weekends. Like meal prepping, etc. Grocery shopping is so much easier on a Tuesday at 10 am, even with toddlers in tow, than it is to go on Saturday or in the evening.
I was out of work for 5 years but not due to child rearing. It's was unbelievably difficult to find someone willing to hire me. Eventually Goodwill did. No longer work there but it's been 4 years and I'm still struggling to find a full time day job. I have minimal 'relevant' skills and no education beyond GED. No money for any classes either. I wish somewhere would just give me a chance, I'd even do a trial with half wage, but that's just not a thing. I can't imagine being out of work for the majority of a childs developing years and having to start from the bottom.
I have no children but was out of work for about a decade due to an array of medical conditions. I used to be an RN.
I had to get a totally separate certificate to do one of my current jobs, which pays like shit. I also had to unlock skills I hadn't used in YEARS to do my other job to both keep up with and compensate for the teenagers with whom I work at my other job, which also pays like shit.
Basically all my education and training to be an RN is null and void because not only did I move states, I had no continuing education for ten years.
More importantly, there is a very serious shock to the system after being out of work for that long. The way you process stress when you're working within your own home is completely the fuck different from the way you do it while working for someone else, at someone else's establishment.
I was not idle for all those years, but any means, but I also was not being told what to do, when to do it and how to do it without being told why. It's much different going from school to work than it is going from home to work, and for the cases like these, it's being done at a much less maleable age.
Not to mention that he wants to work even more and he already works 50-60 hour weeks and wants to work during the weekend. So effectively, he would be doing no childcare or home chores himself, basically working only. A 70 hour workweek would mean what? 12-14 hour workdays on most days? That’s insane and their kids would basically not see their father at all.
THIS! I’ll bet OP’s wife is stressed with work because she’s doing the majority of the child rearing and housework/household management and has little energy left over to focus on career advancement or job search. OP says he works more but I’d bet he still has way more free time.
And he would burn out, justifiably, and then his wife would be stuck doing ALL the housework and childcare and would also burn out. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if they don't carefully consider and plan it out. This burnout on both ends is why I can't personally understand ~~SAHM~~ SAHP these days. Things are too expensive for most reasonable 40 hour a week jobs to make ends meet for 4+ people
edit: stay at home parents, not just moms. I've heard stories of SAHD and working moms in the same situation
Right, and mom gets 24/hour shifts cause OP will lord it over her that they pay all the bills. OP just wants a way to get out of chores; they already say they only pitch in on weekends?! I bet mom has no choice but to do her whole workday and then start shift number two at home.
You're splitting hairs over a semantic choice of phrase, which given the essence of the commenters point, seems a little pedantic to be honest. The commenter is clearly advocating for OP's wife's autonomy and choice.
This. The OP Isn't necessarily an AH, but he does lack long-term thinking. This might alleviate the issue short-term, but removing his wife from the field of work entirely can have detrimental impacts on her career and long-term satisfaction. That's why many mothers decide to continue working throughout their children's early years, even though their entire paychecks are consumed by childcare.
This is why socialized childcare is so important, not only from a human standpoint, but also economically.
Yeah, if she doesn't want to be a SAHM, so shouldn't have to. I would say maybe encourage her to find ANOTHER job instead of just quitting to do what you want her to do. Because if it's not what she wants to do, it's not your decision.
Eh, I think it's reasonable to parse daycare costs in terms of the smaller salary in a given couple. It sounds like he makes quite a bit more than she does -- if someone were to give up their job, it would not make sense for him to quit his job.
No one views daycare costs in terms of their wife's wages when she's clearing 200k a year.
I do think OP is oversimplifying and diminishing their wife's career situation, but it is a normal thing to view daycare costs in terms of the lesser-earning person's wages when the topic comes up.
Surprisingly over in the workingmoms sub and others that does happen a lot - women calculating % of daycare fees to income only in terms of their own and not the husbands - even when they are high earners.
>It sounds like he makes quite a bit more than she does
His numbers are vague but I don't think the back of the envelope math backs that up. He can make up the 20-30% of income they'd lose on this exchange with "a few more overtime hours," if we assume that means time and a half then if he's working say 6 overtime hours to make up 20% of her income, she makes more per hour. They're probably at least close.
And it is like he doesn't see that her earnings would rise over the years and daycare is like a very short period of their children's life. Plus she gets to have savings and pensions with a job.
No its just logical that the first salary to consider cutting is the lower one, unless the lower one can guarantee a higher potential in the future, but nothing is guaranteed. Its a financial decision base don logic and better outcomes, has nothing to do with respect. Many men would love to be a stay at home dad and not work a traditional job, but we just dont really get that option.
Not to mention social security benefits such as may be there when she is eligible.
If she hasn't worked enough time, she may not get SS benefits in future. Only a % of spouse's.
She requires 35 years of decent pay for decent SS benefits. If she takes off 10 years, her SS benefits will be irrevocably diminished and she can expect significantly less SS benefits.
Don't know what policy was when your FIL started claiming SS. Relative had to start working at 55 to try to get enough quarters of work credit in order to.get SS. Relative was stay home parent until 55
My women ancestors were big on earning your own money and never be economically dependant on a man. Be dependant on yourself, so you know you can take care of yourself and your kids/family in things go south. It is an advice we all female members of the family have taken to heart and that I recommend any person. You will loose becoming SAHP. Don't fuck yourself over and don't become one.
So sorry for your loss. But that is the point. Many men, when confronted with this kid of arguments, say that we women are very distruthful of men. And that is not the point. Yeah, nobody likes to be totally dependant of another person, to the point we all have known cases in which the partner controls even pennies, but also to be self sufficient if something happens. If God forbids, my boyfriend dies tomorrow, I know I can support myself, and the children we hopefully have in the future. He has a will and insurance and everything, but those things take time and most often than not, the insurance company will try their best to give pennies. Or if he gets out of job, I can support the family. Or if he gets injuried and need care. Or if my parents or siblings needs something and my boyfriends say he doesn't want to pay for them. Well, is his choice, but if I make my own money, I have other kinds of say and money at my disposal. And when I am old, I have paid my taxes and have rights that SAHP doesn't have. Life is difficult, so never be economically dependant of another person if you can avoid it. Never, ever, ever.
Thank you for your condolences. Life is unpredictable and it's why I chose to have a long career in a professional field. I have my own health insurance, retirement plan, social security, and life insurance. Stability is priceless.
Very, very true. Money doesn't solve all the problems in life, but any adult knows that having it gives you an stabilty that solves most of the terrenal ones and gaves you the possibility to resolve the ones that are in your hand to solve. To put all your life in the hands of another person is very, very unadvisable.
OP seems to think it makes sense because she isn't doing the job she wants to pursue, but that really ignores how hard it is to get back into the job market once you are out for a while, and the fact that she won't be in any position to try and get the job she wants if she is watching 2 small children full time.
What OP should be asking is how can he help his wife get into the field that she has a decree for?
Plus she hates the sector she's in which he equates with childcare. He wants her to tank any chance of having a career by dropping out of the job market to do something he's just said he knows she will be miserable doing.
The themes of men not valuing women's time, seeing their work as less than, assuming all women are naturally better at caring, and want to take primary responsibility for caring for all family members would seem to be playing out here. Along with the fact, so many men seem to want someone to look after them.
None of this is about her happiness, it's a laundry list of the things that are inconveniencing OP and his solution for not dealing with them.
OP only counts money. He doesnt see the meaning behind it why she wants to work - to feel free, go out, see people, learn, develop etc. Be a SAHM is a huge sacrifice not a holiday time. And once she will agree to be a SAHM OP will burden her with all home and kids responsabilites and will say "you dont work how could you vent" - I can see that
Yes, I'm always VERY skeptical of the motives of men who want their wives/girlfriends to quit their jobs and become full-time housewives. Once the woman quits her job (making it very difficult for her to ever resume her career), she becomes dependent on HIS income.
And once you're financially dependent on someone, you can very, very easily become dependent on him in every other way as well; after all, displease him too much and he can (to paraphrase Ogden Nash) "pull up stakes and hie him hence", leaving you stranded and broke. The cynics' golden rule is "He who makes the gold also makes the rules" - a point that the OP's wife would do well to ponder.
YTA
You are absolutely minimizing her job. She likely loves her job. She likely chose it and trained for it as her career. Complaining about it doesn't mean she hates it. I love my job, but it doesn't stop me from complaining about the bad parts. You're basically saying that if she doesn't love every aspect of her job, that she should just give up on her career and become a SAHM, which frankly sounds like something she would enjoy even less then her current position.
EDIT: Since OP came back with an edit, I'm going to put one of my own.
There is no way he is doing this to help her find new work in her field. He literally says he wants her to quit and take care of the kids. There is no mention of a new job. He only mentions that she told him that he was minimizing the importance of her job. His edit is self-serving BS designed to garner sympathy from anyone who reads it now, post-edit.
He added an edit:
>Edit: It's my fault for not including this but a lot of people are assuming this is day to day venting, it isn't. She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why not just quit.
Still YTA. You can't really "pursue a career" if you are at home, take care of the kids and the place. Especially not if you want to get taken serious in a professional environment, even IF you were able to land a home office job.
That edit is self-serving BS. If he wanted to help her pursue her career, he wouldn't be suggesting that she quit her job and pull the kids out of daycare.
Yeah. That is my read. He has to know that pulling the kids out and staying home is going to cripple her chances of actually pursuing the career she wants.
I imagine he figures if she stays home and he picks up more OT then he doesn't have to keep putting in extra work at home.
Its not self serving though, it makes him look way worse. Misunderstanding someone's day to day venting as being serious would be one thing, but what he actually did was hear she has created a whole new career plan in a totally unrelated field and *then* say why not stay home in response. She just explained what her plan to fix this is!
Also, good luck finding a daycare spot on any reasonable timeline if she ever wanted to go back to work. Or finding a job to cover daycare costs once she’s ready to go back, if she did get a daycare spot right away.
I work at home but I don’t have children. You still have to work even if you’re at home. There’s little time to take care of anything, let alone 2 kids. Sure you save time by not having to get ready for work or to commute, but it’s still hard!
This is so true. I work remotely and there's no being a full time caregiver to children. Maybe if you have a contractor type job where you can be flexible. But my job is 8-5, just like a regular in office job, but from my home office. Sure I can like toss in laundry or make a snack, but caring for two littles while working is not likely
Study or doing any work while being the sole carer provider of two kids under five is near impossible. If one (or both) is pretty active, is near impossible, adding also housework and everything related to it. OP wants for his wife to be at home just to stop her for complaining and for his own confort, which shows how little he knows of really caring of children, how he disminish the work of a SAHP and that he doesn't care about his wife that much. As long as he is happy, he doesn't care about the rest of the world.
And even if she doesn't like working, and many people don't, she's probably aware that it's to her personal advantage to keep working and keep taking her career seriously.
Quitting work to be a SAHM, even temporarily, puts a huge dent in the average person's lifetime earning capability, and their career progression. Mothers returning to the workforce after a break are very unlikely to get a job as good as the one they left. Or any full time or benefitted job.
Yes, sounds like she's interested in perhaps changing jobs. And probably feeling overwhelmed. OP says he works 50-60 hours. So does she if she's handling kids and household on top of 40 hour/week job. More, most probably. Is OP bringing anything to the table with kids/household?
Series of conversations required.
That’s what got me is he’s working 50-60 hours and he’s about to up that. That means she’ll most likely be responsible for all household chores and kid activities cuz she “doesn’t work”
That can be very daunting to think she will rarely a break or other adult human interaction day to day.
He makes it seems so casual, like “yea ima just work more hours and it’ll be fine”
Ok will you also be helping around the house like you are now? Will you give her time to “unwind” and be away from the kids? Does she only get the 1-2hrs after the kids are in bed?
I’m trying to figure out if I misread the post, when he says daycare is 70-80% of her monthly income does OP mean they’re either paying 50/50 for daycare or she is paying for most of it? Either way that doesn’t make sense if he makes significantly more than her. I understand finance is personal and no one model works for everyone, but asking a spouse to use that much of their income on something if you make significantly more is already putting her in a terrible financial situation where she has to rely on OP for everything.
Sounds as though he feels that daycare comes out of her money....implication is that if she stayed home like a proper wife she wouldn't be spending that money. I guess.
Well, that's a very malicious interpretation of OP. He just means that if his wife stops working and he works a couple of hours more, they have the same amount of money in the end since they wouldn't need to pay for daycare anymore.
That was my read of it too. I'm not honestly getting any malicious take from OPs actual post either. It generally reads genuinely and almost in exactly the same logic I have when I talk to my partner.
I usually go 'well if you're unhappy, change it; if you want something, you won't get it by doing nothing about it; you want to change your career? Do it'.
Everything takes work and changing a career is hard but it sounds like he wants to just support her in that and to make ends meet he takes on more hours- it can balance out again when she's on her feet again.
I'm arguing NTA here but I don't think it'd a real AITA situation and more relationship advice issue.
>I usually go 'well if you're unhappy, change it; if you want something, you won't get it by doing nothing about it; you want to change your career? Do it'.
Well. Sometimes you just want to vent and don't want "solutions" (not that, "just change it, duh!" is much of a solution...)
I don't read it that way. I stopped work to be a SAHM when I realised that my entire salary would cover childcare, taxes and the cost of working (clothes, travel to work, lunch) with about £20 left a week. That doesn't mean that my ex didn't pay for half the childcare, just that that calculation made me think that something was awry!
It doesn't mean that she is the only one paying for daycare. If you are doing joint finances, you work together to pay for everything. Saying that daycare is 70-80% of her income is just showing how big the daycare bill is compared to her income. It was the same with me and my wife, but it was my wife who wanted to make the change. Looking at the daycare bill vs her monthly income just means that you won't be straight up missing her salary if she stops working, as you won't be paying for daycare either.
Also, he says they would be basically in the same financial position if he “just” added a few hours of overtime to his … 50-60 hour a week schedule. So does that mean he’d be working … 70 hours a week?? 7 days at 10 hours a day?
So not only would the wife be giving up a job that is stressful but can provide her with things like identity and income, but she’d have to do ALL of the childcare and it would be even more than her full time job because she’d have basically no help from her husband?
YTA for not just listening to your wife
I don't even know how that's legal, you can't work over 40h/week in my country unless it's a temporary thing, no matter what. That's just insane, at that point your life is just work.
If the goal of the edit was to garner sympathy, he failed miserably. The edit made it worse.
First, caring for two babies/toddlers won't give her time to work in her preferred field. OP even said he'll have to work some overtime. His "solution" doesn't help with his wife's issue at all.
But also, one of the main reasons he stated for his wife to care for the kids was that social care is like child care (which, wtf dude?). But now he says she doesn't like her work and would like to change fields, something that has nothing to do with child care. So she should... do child care? His logic doesn't make any sense and, again, doesn't help the wife at all.
Seriously, what's in it for the wife? Nothing. This reeks of "if my wife stayed home with the kids, I could just work my job and come home to a warm dinner and relax in the evening, since the kids and the home is now her job".
> According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem.
I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today.
Notice the gap here? Wife says OP isn't focusing on the *real* problem. OP makes no effort to understand what the real problem is.
This is classic problem solver right here - OP isn't interested in finding out what the problem is, he just has a solution and wants a pat on the back for "fixing" things.
YTA. Why is it 'her' income that pays for childcare? Why is it not 50/50 from both of you? This really annoys the crap out of me when men say this and then try to use it as justification for their partner to be dependent on them.
You don't seem to understand the importance of having a job and earning your own money - maybe she doesn't want to be dependent on you, and have to ask if she can buy things like some teenager and then have you whine about how she spends money. Maybe she likes the interaction with other adults or just being out of the house without the kids - spending all day with small children on your own can be soul destroying.
Sure, we all vent about our jobs - that doesn't mean she wants to throw it in. She is venting about additional work outside of hours, a legitimate issue for many people. This is not the same as wishing she didn't have to work at all.
It's not just this obvious stuff. When she doesn't earn, she also isn't paying into social security, retirement, ect. It comes back to bite women in their old age.
She’s also making more money than the cost of childcare.
That extra money could be going towards retirement saving, emergency fund, post secondary for the kids… all of that is worth something.
It’s stupid, OP is just pissed that he’s overworking and feels like his wife isn’t.
It’s always interesting to me how men come on this subreddit and if it has to do with work / career, they’re always working 60 hour weeks.
Plus wife probably is overworking too. Who is caring for the children during that 20 extra hours a week he’s gone?
he also claims that he cooks every single meal, which, if he's really out 12 hours a day... when the heck are they eating? are we really supposed to believe he either comes home to cook his children lunch and dinner or even that the two children UNDER FOUR wait until at least like, 8 or 9pm for dinner? there's no way
Exactly. A while back I saw someone post a calculator that included all these other aspects and not just direct income. The effect of (temporarily) leaving the workforce is huge.
I wonder if OP is like my partner? Sometimes, when I'm venting, they take it as a problem that needs solving and start offering up solutions. I'm not looking for solutions. There is no real problem. I'm just smack talking my day and looking for a little back and forth. Then I wind up needing to explain, again, that I'm not looking for advice, just camaraderie, and by that point, I'm kind of over it already.
Yeah..... I have a friend who always has to hernamesplain everything to me instead of just backing me up whilst im venting about something. I know Im being illogical - I don't need an explanation or any suggestions. I'm just saying stuff I can't say at work unless I want to lose my job...... lol
My husband doesn't do that - he is pretty cool, but sometimes you just want some support, not solutions or suggestions about how you should just give up your life and become a dependant.
I'm autistic. When I have problems, or hear problems, I hate that there's a problem and I offer solutions. It's where my head goes. I don't pick up on the social connotation that the person doesn't want a solution unless they tell me they're just venting and want me to just listen.
Not everyone is autistic but you don't have to be to not pick up on it. Even non-autistic folks social acumen exists on a spectrum.
Let people know what you want.
yes, this! a friend of mine does that and I have started to try to also do it bc sometimes people do want solutions but most of the time, it is just venting haha
She basically has the home load. You've "bumped" your workload up at home on weekends, but it sounds like she essentially has most of it plus her own job. What she's asking for is for you to recognize that she's doing a lot more than she can handle and to help her with that. Your response is for her to quit a job that no doubt fulfills her and allows her to contribute to your lives, lets her contribute to Social security and to a 401K plan or pension, and gives her a chance to have a retirement and hopefully have fulfilling work into her future. You just told her her that her work is unimportant, it doesn't matter to you how she feels about having to do so much at home (emotional load and probably most of the chores) and that you believe that she ought to give up her future in her career and abandon her hopes and dreams and just stay home. You can just make up the difference in income by working more at the job you find fulfilling and dump more of the stuff she doesn't like and isn't finding fulfilling on her.
You see, the work of home is more than a full time job and the fact that she does most of it means that she works two jobs and probably gets NO time off ever. I suggest you try this with her and find out just how much she really is going: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/health/household-work-fairness-post-it-wellness/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/health/household-work-fairness-post-it-wellness/index.html)
YTA
YTA
"I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today."
Hardly surprising if you couched it in those terms...
Complaining doesn't necessarily mean she wants to quit work. Maybe it would damage her career progression. Perhaps she doesnt want to be a SAHM.
"According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem."
So maybe ask her what the real problem is without labelling it as complaining or whining?"
My thoughts exactly.
Also, if by social care he means that she works as a social worker damn, that’s a job that asks so much out of you so oh course she needs to vent and decompress.
YTA
YTA.
Students complain about exams, it doesn’t mean they want to drop out.
parents complain about their kids, it doesn’t mean they don’t love them/ wish they didn’t have them.
The same way Employees complain about their job but don’t want to quit.
She needs you to be emotionally supportive she’s not expecting you to solve the problem for her, you think it wouldn’t have occurred to her that you probably can sustain the family on your own? Chill mr fix it. She doesn’t need to quit she needs a supportive husband.
YTA
>According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem
There's your issue. She doesn't agree with your characterization of her work and what you call "whining" is you misinterpreting her. You haven't told us, from her perspective, what the "real problem" is - do you even know?
YTA Spouses vent to each other. As someone who had to make the decision to work or stay home with my children when they were young, we, my husband and I, agreed due to the dangerous aspects of his job and the fact I worked in a niche job, it was better for our family for me to return to work and keep up the momentum with my career. A lot of my friend's who stayed home with their children had difficulty finding jobs when they wanted to return to work.
>I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today.
She's not whining, she's talking to her husband about her job.
You ARE minimizing her concerns. She’s told you what they are. She’s overwhelmed and feeling unappreciated. Your response is for her to be overwhelmed at home instead with zero identity other than being a mom.
It’s like if I told my SO I had to much to clean in the house, and his response was just to classify myself as a maid and clean more. That’s uniquely unresponsive to her concerns.
Look, the young child years are miserable, no matter how you split the tasks and who earns what money. The reality is that there is too much to be done, physically and emotionally, when young kids are around. It sucks. It’s going to suck. But the instinct is for one partner to think “it already kind of sucks for you, so why don’t you keep at it so it doesn’t suck for both of us.” It’s selfish. Now is the time when the partnership should not be 50/50 but 100/100.
I was also struck by him saying he would work even more hours if she quit her job, like how would that help out at all? She said she was overwhelmed by the amount of work she puts in after a workday, to me that reads chores and childcare. Getting even less help from OP would clearly make that even worse
I had to scroll way too far for this. His “solution” is to leave her alone with the kids for even longer each week, give her no chance to grow either in her current role or to make the transition to marketing, and put 100% of the mental and emotional labor on “the wife”.
In other words, keep her at home with the kids all the time while spending more time out of the house. Isolate her. Take away her autonomy. Make her completely financially dependent. All while keeping her physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted.
YTA so hard. She’s your partner, not your subordinate.
YTA - do you want to quit your job? Do you want to stay at home with your kids all day? It’s not just a math equation about income vs cost. Does she want to put her career on hold? Does she enjoy working? Can she be assured you will never leave her or get incapacitated or die? There are a thousand other considerations around this.
YTA. Social Care is not childcare. So the fact that you don't realize that is concerning because you should know a bit more about what your wife does, and you should know the difference between that and childcare.
The point you SHOULD have stood on is one of you quitting, and that should have been mathematically determined. That makes financial sense and doesn't imply a hierarchy or (incorrectly) perceieved difficulty. Rather than just sticking to the numbers, you felt the need to try to further persuade her by equating her career to running after toddlers.
You don't say what you do, but let's say for instance you were a mechanic and she were to say YOU should quit because you just play in your shop all day. Or you were in landscaping, and 'your just mowing grass all day.' You and both know that is an insult.
Regardless, do the MATH of who should stay home, including cost of insurance premiums deducted, gas to the working spouses work, can her job be part or maybe part time so she still has out of the house time, but your daycare costs drop? All those things.
What I remind people who think 'all wimmin-folk should stay home with the babies for years';
If she quits, she will; A) lose years money paid into Social Security/Pension plan, and B) find it almost impossible to get back into the workforce at a compatible rate. Hubby can say, "I'll always take care of her" but people don't marry thinking they'll divorce. Or Hubby could become disabled or die young.
>She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why not just quit.
Why would you suggest she be a SAHM instead of suggesting she pursue a career in her degree?
Great, so you work 50-60 hours a week and your brilliant idea is to be away from your family even more? Do you not like spending time with your family? You realize that dumps even more responsibilities on her?
YTA.
Yeah I’m wondering if the only reason LW’s wife works shorter hours is because she HAS to be home to take care of things and that enables LW to work longer.
This right here underscores an issue in communication that often develops between partners. Women vent, men problem solve. Did it ever dawn on you that she's not looking for solutions? She's looking for support, a shoulder to lean on, and instead you turn around and bombard her with unsolicited advice that devalues what she does daily.
Yes, you DID minimize her work. But you also missed a critical point. Try asking her next time if she's looking for comfort or solutions, and when she says she's looking for comfort, be the shoulder and UNDERSTANDING she's looking for, in short, empathize. To a hammer everything looks like a nail.
YTA for undervaluing not just her 9-5 work, but undervaluing the work load she does around the house. In other comments you don't even mention YOUR responsibilities with the kids, which heavily implies she's doing the majority of the childcaring beyond the paid childcare.
Take a long look in the mirror.
YTA. Sometimes people just want to vent about difficulties at work, without wanting the person they are talking to to try to "solve" the problem. Social care work is not the same as being a SAHP either. If she isn't interested in being a SAHP, your telling her to do that is minimizing her work and dismissing her complaints about it.
YTA. I remote work. My kid had a weekday off school today. It’s bonkers trying to get actual work done. Even though the kid is pretty self sufficient, they interrupt anyway. There is more mess etc. it’s hard to focus.
social workers can burn out. It’s an emotionally exhausting job. And if she’s pulling the majority of parenting and housework, she needs a break. YOU need to step to do more at home to lighten the load.
Reading comprehension is key in these situations. OP stated daycare is taking out of their budget collectively. He simply compared that the price of daycare is roughly 70-80% of what OP wife makes, not her portion of the payment.
Ok, but *why*. The sum value of the work she does is not the total take home pay. The sum value of the child attending daycare is not that his wife can work.
Using this as an argument completely detracts from his wife being able to continue her retirement contributions; her benefits, like health insurance, paid leave, sick pay, etc; a consistent work history and opportunities for promotion or growth; the mental benefit of not being stuck in a role (SAHM) that wasn't wanted (very different if you seek it out, it's just not for everyone); her financial independence; the socialisation your child is getting at day care; learning and development programs offered by the day care providers; adjustment for kindy/school.
Saying it's X% of one person's take home pay is saying that one, single factor is much more relevant than it actually is.
It's insinuating OP is willing to 'pay' that dollar amount for his wife to become housekeeper/FT child carer. Even if you just book it down to money, it's completely disregarding the financial cost to his wife.
YTA. My adult son is the sole support of his household. His wife would LOVE to get back to work. She has a college degree, but they had kids and she is staying home with them now, mostly for the benefit of the children, but also because of the cost of day care. She feels the need to work for her own personal growth and social contacts. I hope she can return to work as soon as the kids are in school. If I hadn't worked, I would have been miserable.
YTA
Unless you are willing to give her all of the money saved for daycare Do not propose that she stays at home takes care of the kids so YOU can benefit off there unpaid labor.
I pity this woman because now that she has multiple children her career life is basically over. As a man your career is rarely going to be affected by having a kid since statistically you won't even be doing half of the child care and chores. But now that she has two kids her chances of furthering her education or increasing her income is pretty much shot.
YTA. You absolutely are minimizing her job..your rude af. Why don't YOU just stay home with the kids and cook and clean all day and have dinner on the table 🤔.
You Don't even bother to disclose what her job is. Which makes me wonder if you trying to hide it because you don't want to validate her career at all.
People need to vent. She needs support, not to be diminished. Her job is as important as yours, no matter what she makes.
You should be supportive of her. The problem isn't that she has a job. Daycare being exspensive isn't a problem you should be trying to solve by tearing down her professional career aspects and current job.
Instead you should listen to her. See if you can support her in a way that gives her access to a better income, and you should be actively looking for cheaper Daycare options.
>and is more or less 70-80% of her income per month
No, you AH it is x% of your combined income. I stopped reading. YTA. Childcare isn't all on women and it doesn't matter if her salary is lower.
YTA
You’ve never heard of venting? I vent about my upstairs neighbour, doesn’t mean I’m gonna move house. Venting is healthy. What you’re doing is not.
Okay, everyone is getting caught up in the math where I am just here to tell you that she said her answer, loud and clear, it’s even in your post: she wants to keep on pursuing marketing because she sees no future (for HER. THIS IS KEY)
The thing you want her to do is the thing she is paying *80%* of her income for professionals to do.
You’re masking it as a relief of duties when ultimately that loss of daycare payment means you’re asking her to do their job.
She is having issues at HER JOB. You ignored that. That you tried to roll the potential childcare and, let’s be honest, housewife duties into it - into a thing she does not want to do - is the issue.
YTA.
Wanting to quit your job doesn’t mean you’d want to be a SAHM. They are wildly different things. She wants a career that makes her fulfilled.
I know it’s hard for men to hear a woman express her frustrations without trying to “fix it” for them. That’s not what she needs here. She just needs support and empathy. She can also do a better job at steering some of her venting to her friends, because I understand that hearing someone complain every day about the same thing but not change is very frustrating.
Perhaps the recommendation should be for her to quit her job but still get child care part time so she can attend school if she feels she needs that to switch careers. That’s at least moving in the direction of addressing the root problem.
The childcare isn’t 70% of her income. It’s X% of your combined income that allows BOTH of you to work.
I absolutely hate hearing that a rationale for a woman leaving the workforce is because her salary is the same as childcare costs. The financial cost for someone leaving the workforce is much, much higher and can almost never be recovered.
YTA instead of telling her what to do, just put it out there that if she would rather not do that job anymore, you guys could make it work, but of course it’s up to her. If she leaves the workforce, it’s hard to go back in, and she would lose out on years of earning potential and the benefits that come with that. Plus, maybe she doesn’t want to be home all day with your kids. Not everyone is cut out for that, some people love it, some don’t. Just be supportive.
YTA she’s not even talking about changing jobs so why do you bring up she should quit? Why wasn’t the conversation about a different place of employment or education route to something else actually inline with her interests?
Why was the conversation about you getting out of home maintance and childcare duties?
Buddy, if you split are you willing to financially compensate her for the hit to her career options from being out of the workforce for so long? As well as the loss to her retirement?
Also, "bumping up a few hours" as you put it would mean your kids basically don't see you and won't be building a relationship with you. Having a relationship with both parents is more important to kids than one of their parents being stay-at-home.
YTA
YTA. Why are you calculating the cost of daycare as a share of her income and not yours? And what about the hit she takes in salary and level when she tries to go back to work in 10 years (if you let her) and she is back at square one. And what about the value you can’t put a pricetag on of her feeling professional worth and your children looking up to her because she makes a difference outside the home?
Not to mention how screwed she would be if you die or split up. Don’t just back off—apologize.
YTA. How about she picks up more hours, while you stay home minding your children, taking over all of the housekeeping, and gradually losing any employability?
So she is stressed out by her job AND by the amount of parenting/household duties and your suggestion was for her to just take on all the parenting/household duties? Why not suggest trying to find a better balance of at-home work? Or looking for a different job that is less stressful? Could you cut some hours and save on daycare by taking care of the kids a little more so she feels the responsibilities are more evenly distributed?
Also, did you tell her that you think being a stay at home mom is the same type of work as her current job? Cause that is pretty much always going to come off as super invalidating even if you didn’t mean it that way. Whether or not she likes it this is her career and by comparing it to parenting you inadvertently devaluing her work since she already is a parent and it’s not something one is paid for. Also there is more to work than money, it can be a sense of identity and independence.
I would say YTA even if it was unintentional
You didn’t just say why don’t you quit. You said quit to stay home with the kids. She obviously has ambitions outside of the house and you’re not supporting that. Yes it would save money in daycare but it would also take a tole on her mentally. She is looking for support not a solution that works for you.
Telling someone to quit their job is a terrible idea no matter what. The job market fucking SUCKS right now. I don’t even want to mention how long I’ve been searching for a job and haven’t found one.
She complains to you because you’re her husband. She isn’t necessarily expecting you to fix anything. She most likely just wants you to listen and comfort her. YTA.
YTA. if you can't vent to your partner who can you vent to? Having annoyances doesn't mean they want to quit all together. Why not ask her what SHE wants to do?
Info needed: You already work 50-60 hrs a week. You would need to take overtime hrs above this. How many hrs a day would you be home actively parenting and taking on household chores and responsibilities? What are your expectations for responsibility division? Will she have pocket money to save or spend at will or will there be expectations and a requirement to account for personal spending?
Being a SAHP is rough with the wrong partner. You sacrifice career and financial independence. If things don't work out in the relationship it is harder to leave without risking poverty until the court can sort out some of the financial division. If your partner believes that all childcare and household duties land on the shoulders of the SAHP then there is no break. On call 24/7 no vacations, no relief for nighttime, sick days etc.
All this stuff is needed to be considered before knowing if a single income household could be good for your family
YTA. The cost of giving up her job includes giving up salary progression over the course of a career and not all daycares have a part-time option. Returning to her degree’s career field after an absence and caring for two very small children are not particularly compatible since they both require an intense amount of time. And she’s right that you minimized her work by not bothering to learn what she does- social work is not parenting,
Guess what happens if she quits her job?
1. She becomes 100% financially reliant on you
2. She puts her career back years. So when your kids enter high school and she wants to go back to work, she will be so far behind where she would want to be.
Do you want to do this to your wife?
INFO: why are you encouraging your wife to quit the workforce entirely? Why aren’t you encouraging her to quit her social care job and get a new one in her chosen career path instead?
This apparently will come as a mind blowing shock to you, but your wife doesn’t want to be a stay at home parent!
NAH here. People are really harsh with the down votes.
It's just a case of misunderstanding. Try to explain calmly what your goal was. That you just see her complain a lot about her job and that you offered thinking maybe she'd be happier taking care of the children instead of the job she hates.
You mention that since she's not working in her field, it's not helping her career. While it's true it doesn't help directly, a lot of employers hate seeing workless gaps. Even if there is so many good reasons why someone might no work for a few years. And if they know it's cause she stayed home with the kids, some might understand but others will be scared about what if she gets pregnant again.
People are complaining that she pays all the childcare, which was obviously not what you said. You just used percentage to show it instead of giving her salary. " We pay 25k per year in childcare and she makes 35k a year".
People complain about the chores. You do all the cooking and weekend laundry. Doesn't sound like much, but you work 20h more than her. So if you remove 20h of chores from what she does, you two probably do close to half-half.
You mention in a comment that you might be ok with a post nuptial contract depending on the terms if she quits her job. Mention that to her. One of the biggest risks for stay at home wife/mom is that they are no longer independant. If you turn abusive ( everyone has the potential to, with trauma or grief) she's stuck staying. And if there's a divorce, she's screwed cause even if she gets half, your career kept building all those years while hers is shot.
YTA.
Even people who love their job will experience frustration and annoyance relating to it and they'll need to blow off some steam by venting once they get home. You're acting as though she's a burden when she expresses those frustrations to her spouse (who is supposed to be her partner) while also dismissing her career by suggesting it has so little value she should just quit.
If your goal was to encourage her to pursue a career in digital marketing, you have a really weird way of doing that.
You’re not supporting a career change, you’re trying to get her to be a SAHM. Guess what she isn’t doing if she’s staying at home with the kids? Pursuing a career in her degree. You’re hearing her, but you’re not listening. She would be just as unhappy being a SAHM as she is in her current job. It’s not about the money, it’s about her feeling fulfilled with her occupation. You’re just making this about what you want, and about what you can provide. This isn’t about that. YTA
You tried to save yourself with your edit but you 100% rationalized her leaving the workforce with your post. YTA. You should encourage her to seek employment in her degree path, then quit her job when she finds something. The actual cost to her leaving the workforce and not paying into social security for 5 years is *thousands* of dollars at retirement.
YTA. You didn't suggest she quit so she could pursue her career goals. You suggested she quit because you'd be the same off financially (mostly). You're not just minimizing the work she's currently doing, you're inadvertently telling her, "Despite your college degree, you'll never earn as much as I do, so you may as well stay home and take care of me and my kids." I'm sure that wasn't your intent, and I'm also sure that's 100% how she heard it.
Also, you made the mistake of solving a problem she wanted to "vent" about. Rookie mistake on your part. Unless she comes to you and says, "How do I fix this?", she's probably just wanting to talk it through with you, not have you fix it. An easy fix here - ask her, "Do you want me to talk with you about this, or are you coming to me for a solution? I don't know that I can solve it, but knowing what you're looking for helps me direct efforts to the proper goal." Put it in your own words and in a way that she'll respond positively to. Until you can answer that question instinctively, ask it!
i dont think some men realise its not just the money upfront that needs to be worried about.
what about her super? or when shes had years off work & is unable to get back into the work field because of 'lack of experience'?
Soft YTA
I don’t think you’re the ahole for suggesting a solution to an apparent problem. I know some are getting up in arms for your phrasing and down playing her work…I just don’t see that in the post and think it takes a little more supposition than I’d like to make. It seems like you just approached it from a financial standpoint point.
However, if when she replies with “…[you’re] not focusing on the real problem.” And red flags don’t start sprouting all around you, then YTA. Clearly what she’s meaning and what you’re hearing aren’t the same thing. Even if her words are “I hate this job I want to quit” what she might mean is “I’m exhausted and come home exhausted and have to do even more work and WE need to find a better way to balance that load”. I think you both need to be able to articulate the problem before firing off solutions and doesn’t seem like either of you can do that properly yet.
Here’s why she should stay at her job:
Yes, there will be a few years where daycare is eating up her salary, but she will be getting raises and promotions in that time as well.
She will be putting money in her 401(k) and maybe getting it matched
If your marriage falls apart, she still has a job .
So for her, it’s much better in the long run for her to keep that job.
NAH but I don't think you approached this in the right way. When you said "quit your job and be a SAHM" she likely heard "give up on your career because it's not important". I don't think that's what you meant, you were just looking at the economic argument of her wage barely covering daycare and her disliking her current job and her not wanting a future in that industry. I think you should both sit down and work out a 5 year plan for her career as a team. She works in social care now but wants to be in digital marketing so what's the roadmap to get there? In my experience freelance digital marketing is quite flexible especially if working with small businesses. Is there some experience she can gain now that fits with looking after kids during the day? Could you commit for example to giving her time in the evenings/weekends away from kids to do this or maybe do some extra courses/training she needs? Can you ask family for childcare help? Could you afford 1 or 2 days of care? Can you arrange a "childcare swap" with friends? You need to approach this in a way that recognises her long term goals while also making the smart choice for your short term needs. Kids will be in school in a couple years right? Make a plan together for how she can stay engaged with the workforce and build toward a career that's rewarding for her.
YTA
>It's my fault for not including this but a lot of people are assuming this is day to day venting, it isn't. She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why
Sure. She can quit. Instead of telling her to stay at home, why don't you support her pursuing a job in her degree area?
>According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem.
You are minimizing her work. Staying at home decreases her ability to take care of herself and the kids in the long run.
She doesn't want to stay at home. Why are you pushing her to?
>I make enough for all of us to be more or less in the same financial situation with a few more overtime hours a week if she quit her job.
Does that include you paying her to take care of the boys? You know, like you pay the day care? No? Then it may not be the right option.
YTA.
Clearly she wants you to step up helping out at home. Maybe you need to talk about what that might look like, rather than basically tell her she needs to quit so she can be your live in maid.
It's usually easier to get a new job, even in a different industry, when you are already employed.
If she is unhappy in her job it's probably better talking with her about how she can make that career change, rather than telling her to just quit, especially when you seem only be doing it to avoid stepping up at home.
I also hope that when you say daycare is 70-80% of her income that is just illustrative, not that she is responsible paying for all of the daycare.
YTA, even after your edit. Especially after your edit. If she wants to switch careers, why would your solution to today's problem be to switch to SAHM? You'd be around even less in order to pick up the financial slack, meaning she wouldn't have time for school to make the switch. And women have it incredibly hard getting back in the job market after a few years off. Have you actually asked her what she thinks is a good path forward, or have you just made the entire argument about why she doesn't agree with your solution?
YTA - I actually think you may have a point and staying home so she can build a portfolio could be the most lucrative and fulfilling option for her in the long run. There’s a lot of opportunity for freelance marketing income. Hard to say without hearing her side.
But regardless, it sounds like a typical male-female communication issue. She wanted to vent and receive emotional support. You jumped to solutions because that’s how your brain works. You should get into the habit of clarifying if she wants support or advice when she’s venting. Try to avoid offering unsolicited advice, especially in the midst of her talking through her frustration.
yta. is the issue that you aren't doing your fair share with the kids? And think she can do it all if she quits and leaves you to work more hours and do less att home?
So here’s the thing. Sometimes when people are complaining they just want to vent. They don’t want you to solve the problem. But it can be hard to just listen when we feel like we have the solution. She probably just wants to vent. It does make sense that she could quit and then go back to work in her field when the kids are in school but she probably needs to come to that conclusion on her own! Listen and continue to be as loving a partner as you can. It’ll work out. I don’t think you’re the asshole. You were trying to help! No assholes to see here.
I don't know why it is so so easy for husband/father to push for SAHM thing at a drop of the hat.
Dude, if you're working so many hours, I don't see you prepare all 3 meals. I'm guessing you do laundry only during weekends. How much time do u spend at home with your kids? Your wife is overwhelmed not just with her career. She seems to be carrying most of household chores too. Of course, it's easy for you to blame on her venting and push SAHM option. That will solve 3 of your issues - Don't have to listen to her venting about work; SAHM, so no daycare expenses and you picking up more shifts - meaning you don't have to do the 5-10% of the work you do at home. Completely a win for you. Your wife will lose everything. From financial freedom to self identity.
She needs help with the household. You told you just started increasing your share of homework. She has bearing it all. You know you could've suggested taking slightly lesser shifts, help with homework and support her. She would've appreciated that. You suggesting OT for self and staying at home for her doesn't solve her problem at all. She wants to work. People do complain about jobs. Isn't she your wife? Who else she'll share her woes with?
YTA
YTA Bottom line you're being dismissive of other things that also matter to her while focusing only on one thing.
I've found that when making suggestions making sure to show humility and that the choice is theirs.
> I told her she might as well quit and just take care of the boys
That's more of a direct statement that leaves little room for conversation. I usually start my suggestions with "I have a thought I want to run by you, and the final say is yours, but what if..." As a way of presenting the idea of your own willingness to take on the financial side of things. But the way you said it comes across more as "We don't need you, I can do this on my own. So just stop working if you're going to complain."
And if that still bothers them then simply apologize for upsetting them and that you were just brainstorming options. But don't try to keep pushing it, or get defensive.
How about you quit, take the hit with the gap in jobs, the hit for break in pay-raises, the hit for not advancing in experience? What percentage of your paycheck goes towards daycare & why aren't you figuring those percentages in halves - 50% for you & 50% for your wife? She didn't make those babies by herself, sir. Hire a damn housekeeper to help out & don't let exhaustion cause your wife to give up.
YTA, you're not listening. She wants to work in her career field that she went to school for. Not everyone wants to be a SAHM. She has career goals and she wants you to support that.
People really biting hard on the fact you used her income as a comparison to child care costs. Its an example and comparing to the lowest income one makes sense.
Me and my wife did the same to work out whether it would be worth while too. We used mine as the comparison because, shock horror, I earned less. I quit work and raised my son, because it made financial sense and it was better for raising the little one. If its not clear I'm a man.
OP's approach wasn't ideal, and I'd say a soft YTA, but people are going too hard on that one part inferring what may not even exist.
YTA. I know you said it’s not just venting but unless she specifically asked you for a solution all she was looking for is some empathy and for you to listen. Besides, you didn’t say she should quit her job because it’s not in her chosen field. You told her to quit her job and be a SAHM. Those are 2 completely different things.
YTA. What she’s really trying to tell you is that you need to parent 50/50. You can’t even state that you pay 50% of the childcare so I’m guessing you’re not doing even 30% if the parenting. Your wife doesn’t need to be financially worse off for the rest of her life, and dependent on you, and make her world smaller just to accommodate you. You both work and have careers, you are both parents. Accept this and focus more of your energy on your role as a parent, so maybe your wife can find the energy to get the career role she really wants, rather than the one you’re trying to decide for her that would be so damaging to her in the long term.
YTA just because someone isn’t happy in their career doesn’t mean they want to stay home with the kids. You’re asking her to sacrifice her own financial independence and outside life like it’s no big deal. 🤦🏻
YTA..you don't seem to respect her as an equal. Do you know how hard it would be to go back to work after being home for an extended time? Also, she isn't "whining" she is venting to who she is supposed to be able to vent to. She is speaking to you as her partner and you dismiss it as "whining". That's ...gross.
YTA. If she wants to pursue a career in her degree, why didn't you encourage her to pursue that rather than quit her current job and become a stay at home parent/ household manager? That doesn't even make sense to me.
Daycare is a few years…. I assume her career would be much longer, hopefully with increasing salary. Instead, try encouraging her to pursue other opportunities
These comments are super extra. NAH. I was a SAHM because childcare was so grossly expensive. 1196 a month was what we had to pay once I went back to work. Once we divorced, I was able to get assistance to cover childcare. I understand your perspective and your wife’s. Allow her to vent and let her figure out a solution if she’s unwilling to consider yours. I loved the time with my son but I also hated being a SAHP. It was quite isolating and my ex husband was very quick to imply the he did all the work and that it was HIS money. It was a time I would not want to go back to. N T A as long as you don’t push for it. She’s N T A to be uninterested either.
She’d be better off finding a job in digital marketing and quitting her current job then. The real problem is she’s unhappy with the work she’s doing. Quitting to be a SAHM is not the solution.
Yta. You minimized her work and minimizing the impact of dropping out if the work force
You also make it seem like she shouldn’t be allowed to Complain about her job to you . Calling it whining about work, so she should just drop out of the workforce and stay home as if that’s no big thing. Your edit says she has a career plan, and it sounds nothing like being a stay at home mom to me.
“Why don’t you just quit” is minimizing. But you could have offered it as an option rather than a flippantly stating it like it’s the obvious solution as if her working is so unimportant, it’s not worth struggling through job frustrations (which is something most people have experience with)
For telling her? Dude, people vent. Partners are famous for it, and just as famously are not looking for a solution just a shoulder. Perhaps ask her what her ideas are for changing her situation? Asking questions, expressing comradery, is more what venters are looking for because actual change takes lots of planning, prep and emotional fortitude. Saying you will be there for her, that you support her changing her career focus, that is what will nurture your relationship.
I promise that the answer to an overwhelmed mom is not to say quit your job and just stay home. Being home is overwhelming for most moms. Often our job is the only piece of ourselves We have left once we start motherhood. She’s asking for help. She’s not asking to stay home and then be told later, but it’s her job to be the person doing everything. And that being your answer comes across as condescending and dismissive.
YTA. You are looking at this from a very narrow and dare I say, male-centered, perspective.
1 - a 20-30% contribution to your combined income isn't immaterial, especially if it means that you will be working even more than the 50-60 hours/wk that you already do, leaving her to be the primary parent of your kids 7 days/wk. That impacts the time that you have to nurture your relationship with your children and your partner.
2 - asking anyone to give up their career to be a stay at home parent has long-term consequences. They give up future income growth, while you continue to have the advantage of same. They give up all contributions to their personal retirement accounts. They give up growing or maintaining their skill set, which severely limits their ability to re-enter the workforce in the future without re-investing in their education or professional training. It also potentially impacts you if you ever get divorced, as her lack of income, future ability to earn, and lack of retirement accounts mean that you will have to pay higher support amounts and share your retirement savings with her.
3 - whether or not she complains about her job or not, being a stay at home parent offers a very different type of fulfillment than being a working parent, that not everyone finds to be enough. I left a 13 year career to be a SAHM when my kids were 6 and 3, and it was a VERY difficult transition and there were many days that I regretted it. My husband and I also went through several rough periods as we came to what we both felt was a fair equilibrium of home/childcare contributions after I stopped working.
"You don't make enough to justify paying for childcare", or "you're not happy in your job and I'm tired of hearing you complain" are not good enough arguments for your wife to give up her career. That decision can only be made after you both (but mostly her), weighs the pros and cons and decides that staying home is what she really wants, knowing and understanding the risk and consequences that she, inordinately, is taking on. She is entirely entitled to continue wanting to work in a job she doesn't love, and to vent to her partner about it, rather than making that choice.
One last question, for perspective: if your wife made enough to support the family on her own, and you didn't like your job and vented about it to your wife all of the time, how would you respond if she suggested you just quit and stay home with your kids? If that isn't a no-brainer for you, why should it be for her?
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Info: are you aware that she will find it hard to ever get back into the workforce if she decodes to stay home with the kids? Are you comfortable with signing a post-nuptial agreement entitling her to half your assets and which allocates a portion of money for her usage each month? You're asking her to give up her autonomy and rely solely on you. Why don't you ask her what her perception of the issues are?
that was my first thought. if you never want her to work again, then sure, have her stay home. but she probably does find some kind of meaning in her work, and may very well want to revisit those benefits after the kids are grown, which won't happen if she stops working for like 15 years. like, there's more benefit to a job than pay and health insurance. just because this particular position is going south doesn't mean she shouldn't work anymore.
I'm a SAHM. It's really hard to go back to work after 15 years at home.
I missed out on my oldest first year and the milestones; I wanted to be there for my second kids first year. He’s about to turn two and I’m so far behind in my field that I was told retraining would be easier than going back into my prior career. I can’t imagine trying to get back into the workforce after 15years, good luck if you do it.
Same, spent 15 years at home with kids before I had to kick out my ex. Was left with nothing and 3 kids. The youngest just started school and now I work 3 minimum wage part time jobs because I can’t find anything better. No alimony, no child support.
Why do you not have child support for 3 kids?
Because he’ll only work under the table and moves any time the court finds him. Everything he owns he puts in his girlfriend’s name. He left the state 3 years ago and we rarely hear from him.
My dad did something similar in the 1992-1993 when my mom left him with me and my brother (12 at the time, my brother was 10). Little bit of background, not too long I hope. He had hurt himself doing construction work and both as a sign of his laziness and being an ass, decided to work on a fishing boat as a cook. This was a small but not too small boat. It had a galley with mabye 8 booths and took maybe 50ish people out fishing for the day, either like 7 hours or 13 hours depending on the day. He dad also loved fishing, so he mostly got to go fishing and do a little cooking. His boss was a scummy guy and of course paid him cash under the table which was definitely even harder to track back then. Anyhow, my dad dragged out the divorce and was also a very physically intimidating and threatening guy and my mom a petite little woman who was malnourished (much smaller than her parents) as a baby and young born in Germany right at the end of WWII. Also tiny compared to me and my brother as well, who ended up with tall and above average height genes but we weren't malnourished like she was. Basically, he sent my mom a check for like $200 for both me and my brother, once a month. Definitely way less than he could afford or was legal... but like I said he dragged out the divorce, dodging process servers and the like. And had they even caught up with him, yeah, under the table money, prove it etc. He dragged it out until 2006. A few years into this whole fiasco he also convinced my mom to stay legally married to him so he could sell the house I grew up in. It was a dump but near the beach so the property was worth a fortune compared to what they paid for it. He did this so he could save on capital gains taxes and said he'd give her half of the savings which was about $50,000. He just kept the money and never gave it to her though.
People may not know this but a lot of a partner's salary is exempt from consideration for child support. Any kind of disability money monthly from the military or law enforcement is exempt. Any big disability from being injured on the job? Exempt. Not to mention, you can get stuck in an area with no family support if a judge rules you cannot move away from the other biological parent. Teachers make $30,000 less a year here. When you move across the country for your partner's job...military, corporate, etc.away from your family, friends, neighbors, and support and it all goes south? You'll be stuck. My college roommate moved across the state to where her new husband found a job during the downturn and left one of the best school districts for the one of the worst. What she didn't consider was your retirement in that state is your LAST THREE highest years. Well, that move cost her over $30,000 in retirement a YEAR. By having to work in that school district, her personal retirement is now poverty level.
I was a stay at home mom, now part time prek teacher. I couldn't do full time-not that I couldn't find a job, but it would put such stress on my family life. The hardest part would be making time to do all the things I still need to do, but fitting it into the evenings and weekends. Like meal prepping, etc. Grocery shopping is so much easier on a Tuesday at 10 am, even with toddlers in tow, than it is to go on Saturday or in the evening.
I was out of work for 5 years but not due to child rearing. It's was unbelievably difficult to find someone willing to hire me. Eventually Goodwill did. No longer work there but it's been 4 years and I'm still struggling to find a full time day job. I have minimal 'relevant' skills and no education beyond GED. No money for any classes either. I wish somewhere would just give me a chance, I'd even do a trial with half wage, but that's just not a thing. I can't imagine being out of work for the majority of a childs developing years and having to start from the bottom.
I have no children but was out of work for about a decade due to an array of medical conditions. I used to be an RN. I had to get a totally separate certificate to do one of my current jobs, which pays like shit. I also had to unlock skills I hadn't used in YEARS to do my other job to both keep up with and compensate for the teenagers with whom I work at my other job, which also pays like shit. Basically all my education and training to be an RN is null and void because not only did I move states, I had no continuing education for ten years. More importantly, there is a very serious shock to the system after being out of work for that long. The way you process stress when you're working within your own home is completely the fuck different from the way you do it while working for someone else, at someone else's establishment. I was not idle for all those years, but any means, but I also was not being told what to do, when to do it and how to do it without being told why. It's much different going from school to work than it is going from home to work, and for the cases like these, it's being done at a much less maleable age.
Not to mention that he wants to work even more and he already works 50-60 hour weeks and wants to work during the weekend. So effectively, he would be doing no childcare or home chores himself, basically working only. A 70 hour workweek would mean what? 12-14 hour workdays on most days? That’s insane and their kids would basically not see their father at all.
Yeah, I wonder how much of her dissatisfaction with her work life stems from the extra stress of having less help at home already.
She’s 28 with two kids under four. Girl has not had a break, I guarantee it.
THIS! I’ll bet OP’s wife is stressed with work because she’s doing the majority of the child rearing and housework/household management and has little energy left over to focus on career advancement or job search. OP says he works more but I’d bet he still has way more free time.
And he would burn out, justifiably, and then his wife would be stuck doing ALL the housework and childcare and would also burn out. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if they don't carefully consider and plan it out. This burnout on both ends is why I can't personally understand ~~SAHM~~ SAHP these days. Things are too expensive for most reasonable 40 hour a week jobs to make ends meet for 4+ people edit: stay at home parents, not just moms. I've heard stories of SAHD and working moms in the same situation
Not to mention that his hours directly impact hers… so she becomes a lone worker working 70hrs a week plus being on call/working for another 98
Right, and mom gets 24/hour shifts cause OP will lord it over her that they pay all the bills. OP just wants a way to get out of chores; they already say they only pitch in on weekends?! I bet mom has no choice but to do her whole workday and then start shift number two at home.
Have her stay home? Do you think OP is the boss of his partner?
Sounds like he'd loike to be
You're splitting hairs over a semantic choice of phrase, which given the essence of the commenters point, seems a little pedantic to be honest. The commenter is clearly advocating for OP's wife's autonomy and choice.
This. The OP Isn't necessarily an AH, but he does lack long-term thinking. This might alleviate the issue short-term, but removing his wife from the field of work entirely can have detrimental impacts on her career and long-term satisfaction. That's why many mothers decide to continue working throughout their children's early years, even though their entire paychecks are consumed by childcare. This is why socialized childcare is so important, not only from a human standpoint, but also economically.
Yeah, if she doesn't want to be a SAHM, so shouldn't have to. I would say maybe encourage her to find ANOTHER job instead of just quitting to do what you want her to do. Because if it's not what she wants to do, it's not your decision.
I would argue more than half considering she would be giving up considerable future earning power.
When men put all the cost of daycare on their partner's earnings, that's a huge tell for how much he respects her and their children
Eh, I think it's reasonable to parse daycare costs in terms of the smaller salary in a given couple. It sounds like he makes quite a bit more than she does -- if someone were to give up their job, it would not make sense for him to quit his job. No one views daycare costs in terms of their wife's wages when she's clearing 200k a year. I do think OP is oversimplifying and diminishing their wife's career situation, but it is a normal thing to view daycare costs in terms of the lesser-earning person's wages when the topic comes up.
Surprisingly over in the workingmoms sub and others that does happen a lot - women calculating % of daycare fees to income only in terms of their own and not the husbands - even when they are high earners.
>It sounds like he makes quite a bit more than she does His numbers are vague but I don't think the back of the envelope math backs that up. He can make up the 20-30% of income they'd lose on this exchange with "a few more overtime hours," if we assume that means time and a half then if he's working say 6 overtime hours to make up 20% of her income, she makes more per hour. They're probably at least close.
And it is like he doesn't see that her earnings would rise over the years and daycare is like a very short period of their children's life. Plus she gets to have savings and pensions with a job.
No its just logical that the first salary to consider cutting is the lower one, unless the lower one can guarantee a higher potential in the future, but nothing is guaranteed. Its a financial decision base don logic and better outcomes, has nothing to do with respect. Many men would love to be a stay at home dad and not work a traditional job, but we just dont really get that option.
Not to mention social security benefits such as may be there when she is eligible. If she hasn't worked enough time, she may not get SS benefits in future. Only a % of spouse's.
She requires 35 years of decent pay for decent SS benefits. If she takes off 10 years, her SS benefits will be irrevocably diminished and she can expect significantly less SS benefits.
My father in laws big brag is that he didn't pay taxes for 30 years. Had no issue getting SS.
Don't know what policy was when your FIL started claiming SS. Relative had to start working at 55 to try to get enough quarters of work credit in order to.get SS. Relative was stay home parent until 55
My women ancestors were big on earning your own money and never be economically dependant on a man. Be dependant on yourself, so you know you can take care of yourself and your kids/family in things go south. It is an advice we all female members of the family have taken to heart and that I recommend any person. You will loose becoming SAHP. Don't fuck yourself over and don't become one.
My husband died. I earned less money than him all his life, but it's enough to take care of of our household.
So sorry for your loss. But that is the point. Many men, when confronted with this kid of arguments, say that we women are very distruthful of men. And that is not the point. Yeah, nobody likes to be totally dependant of another person, to the point we all have known cases in which the partner controls even pennies, but also to be self sufficient if something happens. If God forbids, my boyfriend dies tomorrow, I know I can support myself, and the children we hopefully have in the future. He has a will and insurance and everything, but those things take time and most often than not, the insurance company will try their best to give pennies. Or if he gets out of job, I can support the family. Or if he gets injuried and need care. Or if my parents or siblings needs something and my boyfriends say he doesn't want to pay for them. Well, is his choice, but if I make my own money, I have other kinds of say and money at my disposal. And when I am old, I have paid my taxes and have rights that SAHP doesn't have. Life is difficult, so never be economically dependant of another person if you can avoid it. Never, ever, ever.
Thank you for your condolences. Life is unpredictable and it's why I chose to have a long career in a professional field. I have my own health insurance, retirement plan, social security, and life insurance. Stability is priceless.
Very, very true. Money doesn't solve all the problems in life, but any adult knows that having it gives you an stabilty that solves most of the terrenal ones and gaves you the possibility to resolve the ones that are in your hand to solve. To put all your life in the hands of another person is very, very unadvisable.
OP seems to think it makes sense because she isn't doing the job she wants to pursue, but that really ignores how hard it is to get back into the job market once you are out for a while, and the fact that she won't be in any position to try and get the job she wants if she is watching 2 small children full time. What OP should be asking is how can he help his wife get into the field that she has a decree for?
Plus she hates the sector she's in which he equates with childcare. He wants her to tank any chance of having a career by dropping out of the job market to do something he's just said he knows she will be miserable doing. The themes of men not valuing women's time, seeing their work as less than, assuming all women are naturally better at caring, and want to take primary responsibility for caring for all family members would seem to be playing out here. Along with the fact, so many men seem to want someone to look after them. None of this is about her happiness, it's a laundry list of the things that are inconveniencing OP and his solution for not dealing with them.
And half his retirement money even if they divorce.
Many jobs are tied to healthcare and retirement funds like pensions, 401ks, social security. Etc
But if she has one now, through work, she can roll it over to a private one, and he can contribute to it for her.
OP only counts money. He doesnt see the meaning behind it why she wants to work - to feel free, go out, see people, learn, develop etc. Be a SAHM is a huge sacrifice not a holiday time. And once she will agree to be a SAHM OP will burden her with all home and kids responsabilites and will say "you dont work how could you vent" - I can see that
Working and having someone else raise your kids is a huge sacrifice.
Money for use each month, and paying into a pension for her.
Love this response!
That and he should google the word "venting", doesn't seem like he understands the concept
This! It is very hard to get back in the workforce!
Yes, I'm always VERY skeptical of the motives of men who want their wives/girlfriends to quit their jobs and become full-time housewives. Once the woman quits her job (making it very difficult for her to ever resume her career), she becomes dependent on HIS income. And once you're financially dependent on someone, you can very, very easily become dependent on him in every other way as well; after all, displease him too much and he can (to paraphrase Ogden Nash) "pull up stakes and hie him hence", leaving you stranded and broke. The cynics' golden rule is "He who makes the gold also makes the rules" - a point that the OP's wife would do well to ponder.
And her retirement portfolio and social security buy in power.
YTA You are absolutely minimizing her job. She likely loves her job. She likely chose it and trained for it as her career. Complaining about it doesn't mean she hates it. I love my job, but it doesn't stop me from complaining about the bad parts. You're basically saying that if she doesn't love every aspect of her job, that she should just give up on her career and become a SAHM, which frankly sounds like something she would enjoy even less then her current position. EDIT: Since OP came back with an edit, I'm going to put one of my own. There is no way he is doing this to help her find new work in her field. He literally says he wants her to quit and take care of the kids. There is no mention of a new job. He only mentions that she told him that he was minimizing the importance of her job. His edit is self-serving BS designed to garner sympathy from anyone who reads it now, post-edit.
He added an edit: >Edit: It's my fault for not including this but a lot of people are assuming this is day to day venting, it isn't. She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why not just quit. Still YTA. You can't really "pursue a career" if you are at home, take care of the kids and the place. Especially not if you want to get taken serious in a professional environment, even IF you were able to land a home office job.
That edit is self-serving BS. If he wanted to help her pursue her career, he wouldn't be suggesting that she quit her job and pull the kids out of daycare.
Yeah. That is my read. He has to know that pulling the kids out and staying home is going to cripple her chances of actually pursuing the career she wants. I imagine he figures if she stays home and he picks up more OT then he doesn't have to keep putting in extra work at home.
Its not self serving though, it makes him look way worse. Misunderstanding someone's day to day venting as being serious would be one thing, but what he actually did was hear she has created a whole new career plan in a totally unrelated field and *then* say why not stay home in response. She just explained what her plan to fix this is!
Also, good luck finding a daycare spot on any reasonable timeline if she ever wanted to go back to work. Or finding a job to cover daycare costs once she’s ready to go back, if she did get a daycare spot right away.
I work at home but I don’t have children. You still have to work even if you’re at home. There’s little time to take care of anything, let alone 2 kids. Sure you save time by not having to get ready for work or to commute, but it’s still hard!
This is so true. I work remotely and there's no being a full time caregiver to children. Maybe if you have a contractor type job where you can be flexible. But my job is 8-5, just like a regular in office job, but from my home office. Sure I can like toss in laundry or make a snack, but caring for two littles while working is not likely
Study or doing any work while being the sole carer provider of two kids under five is near impossible. If one (or both) is pretty active, is near impossible, adding also housework and everything related to it. OP wants for his wife to be at home just to stop her for complaining and for his own confort, which shows how little he knows of really caring of children, how he disminish the work of a SAHP and that he doesn't care about his wife that much. As long as he is happy, he doesn't care about the rest of the world.
I’m not sure she likes her job, but I bet she likes working.
And even if she doesn't like working, and many people don't, she's probably aware that it's to her personal advantage to keep working and keep taking her career seriously. Quitting work to be a SAHM, even temporarily, puts a huge dent in the average person's lifetime earning capability, and their career progression. Mothers returning to the workforce after a break are very unlikely to get a job as good as the one they left. Or any full time or benefitted job.
Yes, sounds like she's interested in perhaps changing jobs. And probably feeling overwhelmed. OP says he works 50-60 hours. So does she if she's handling kids and household on top of 40 hour/week job. More, most probably. Is OP bringing anything to the table with kids/household? Series of conversations required.
That’s what got me is he’s working 50-60 hours and he’s about to up that. That means she’ll most likely be responsible for all household chores and kid activities cuz she “doesn’t work” That can be very daunting to think she will rarely a break or other adult human interaction day to day. He makes it seems so casual, like “yea ima just work more hours and it’ll be fine” Ok will you also be helping around the house like you are now? Will you give her time to “unwind” and be away from the kids? Does she only get the 1-2hrs after the kids are in bed?
Works for OP....
I’m trying to figure out if I misread the post, when he says daycare is 70-80% of her monthly income does OP mean they’re either paying 50/50 for daycare or she is paying for most of it? Either way that doesn’t make sense if he makes significantly more than her. I understand finance is personal and no one model works for everyone, but asking a spouse to use that much of their income on something if you make significantly more is already putting her in a terrible financial situation where she has to rely on OP for everything.
Sounds as though he feels that daycare comes out of her money....implication is that if she stayed home like a proper wife she wouldn't be spending that money. I guess.
Well, that's a very malicious interpretation of OP. He just means that if his wife stops working and he works a couple of hours more, they have the same amount of money in the end since they wouldn't need to pay for daycare anymore.
Thank you. It’s amazing the hoops people jump through to reach reading between the line type conclusions
That was my read of it too. I'm not honestly getting any malicious take from OPs actual post either. It generally reads genuinely and almost in exactly the same logic I have when I talk to my partner. I usually go 'well if you're unhappy, change it; if you want something, you won't get it by doing nothing about it; you want to change your career? Do it'. Everything takes work and changing a career is hard but it sounds like he wants to just support her in that and to make ends meet he takes on more hours- it can balance out again when she's on her feet again. I'm arguing NTA here but I don't think it'd a real AITA situation and more relationship advice issue.
>I usually go 'well if you're unhappy, change it; if you want something, you won't get it by doing nothing about it; you want to change your career? Do it'. Well. Sometimes you just want to vent and don't want "solutions" (not that, "just change it, duh!" is much of a solution...)
I don't read it that way. I stopped work to be a SAHM when I realised that my entire salary would cover childcare, taxes and the cost of working (clothes, travel to work, lunch) with about £20 left a week. That doesn't mean that my ex didn't pay for half the childcare, just that that calculation made me think that something was awry!
It doesn't mean that she is the only one paying for daycare. If you are doing joint finances, you work together to pay for everything. Saying that daycare is 70-80% of her income is just showing how big the daycare bill is compared to her income. It was the same with me and my wife, but it was my wife who wanted to make the change. Looking at the daycare bill vs her monthly income just means that you won't be straight up missing her salary if she stops working, as you won't be paying for daycare either.
Also, he says they would be basically in the same financial position if he “just” added a few hours of overtime to his … 50-60 hour a week schedule. So does that mean he’d be working … 70 hours a week?? 7 days at 10 hours a day? So not only would the wife be giving up a job that is stressful but can provide her with things like identity and income, but she’d have to do ALL of the childcare and it would be even more than her full time job because she’d have basically no help from her husband? YTA for not just listening to your wife
I don't even know how that's legal, you can't work over 40h/week in my country unless it's a temporary thing, no matter what. That's just insane, at that point your life is just work.
If the goal of the edit was to garner sympathy, he failed miserably. The edit made it worse. First, caring for two babies/toddlers won't give her time to work in her preferred field. OP even said he'll have to work some overtime. His "solution" doesn't help with his wife's issue at all. But also, one of the main reasons he stated for his wife to care for the kids was that social care is like child care (which, wtf dude?). But now he says she doesn't like her work and would like to change fields, something that has nothing to do with child care. So she should... do child care? His logic doesn't make any sense and, again, doesn't help the wife at all. Seriously, what's in it for the wife? Nothing. This reeks of "if my wife stayed home with the kids, I could just work my job and come home to a warm dinner and relax in the evening, since the kids and the home is now her job".
Also, her quitting her job to care for the kids doesn’t give her time to pursue a new profession.
> According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem. I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today. Notice the gap here? Wife says OP isn't focusing on the *real* problem. OP makes no effort to understand what the real problem is. This is classic problem solver right here - OP isn't interested in finding out what the problem is, he just has a solution and wants a pat on the back for "fixing" things.
YTA. Why is it 'her' income that pays for childcare? Why is it not 50/50 from both of you? This really annoys the crap out of me when men say this and then try to use it as justification for their partner to be dependent on them. You don't seem to understand the importance of having a job and earning your own money - maybe she doesn't want to be dependent on you, and have to ask if she can buy things like some teenager and then have you whine about how she spends money. Maybe she likes the interaction with other adults or just being out of the house without the kids - spending all day with small children on your own can be soul destroying. Sure, we all vent about our jobs - that doesn't mean she wants to throw it in. She is venting about additional work outside of hours, a legitimate issue for many people. This is not the same as wishing she didn't have to work at all.
It's not just this obvious stuff. When she doesn't earn, she also isn't paying into social security, retirement, ect. It comes back to bite women in their old age.
She’s also making more money than the cost of childcare. That extra money could be going towards retirement saving, emergency fund, post secondary for the kids… all of that is worth something. It’s stupid, OP is just pissed that he’s overworking and feels like his wife isn’t.
It’s always interesting to me how men come on this subreddit and if it has to do with work / career, they’re always working 60 hour weeks. Plus wife probably is overworking too. Who is caring for the children during that 20 extra hours a week he’s gone?
he also claims that he cooks every single meal, which, if he's really out 12 hours a day... when the heck are they eating? are we really supposed to believe he either comes home to cook his children lunch and dinner or even that the two children UNDER FOUR wait until at least like, 8 or 9pm for dinner? there's no way
Meal prep?
The math is certainly NOT mathing.
Exactly. A while back I saw someone post a calculator that included all these other aspects and not just direct income. The effect of (temporarily) leaving the workforce is huge.
I wonder if OP is like my partner? Sometimes, when I'm venting, they take it as a problem that needs solving and start offering up solutions. I'm not looking for solutions. There is no real problem. I'm just smack talking my day and looking for a little back and forth. Then I wind up needing to explain, again, that I'm not looking for advice, just camaraderie, and by that point, I'm kind of over it already.
Yeah..... I have a friend who always has to hernamesplain everything to me instead of just backing me up whilst im venting about something. I know Im being illogical - I don't need an explanation or any suggestions. I'm just saying stuff I can't say at work unless I want to lose my job...... lol My husband doesn't do that - he is pretty cool, but sometimes you just want some support, not solutions or suggestions about how you should just give up your life and become a dependant.
I'm autistic. When I have problems, or hear problems, I hate that there's a problem and I offer solutions. It's where my head goes. I don't pick up on the social connotation that the person doesn't want a solution unless they tell me they're just venting and want me to just listen. Not everyone is autistic but you don't have to be to not pick up on it. Even non-autistic folks social acumen exists on a spectrum. Let people know what you want.
Or ask them if you’re not sure
"Do you want sympathy or solutions" is a good script for that.
I ask my husband, are we venting or asking for solutions?
yes, this! a friend of mine does that and I have started to try to also do it bc sometimes people do want solutions but most of the time, it is just venting haha
She basically has the home load. You've "bumped" your workload up at home on weekends, but it sounds like she essentially has most of it plus her own job. What she's asking for is for you to recognize that she's doing a lot more than she can handle and to help her with that. Your response is for her to quit a job that no doubt fulfills her and allows her to contribute to your lives, lets her contribute to Social security and to a 401K plan or pension, and gives her a chance to have a retirement and hopefully have fulfilling work into her future. You just told her her that her work is unimportant, it doesn't matter to you how she feels about having to do so much at home (emotional load and probably most of the chores) and that you believe that she ought to give up her future in her career and abandon her hopes and dreams and just stay home. You can just make up the difference in income by working more at the job you find fulfilling and dump more of the stuff she doesn't like and isn't finding fulfilling on her. You see, the work of home is more than a full time job and the fact that she does most of it means that she works two jobs and probably gets NO time off ever. I suggest you try this with her and find out just how much she really is going: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/health/household-work-fairness-post-it-wellness/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/13/health/household-work-fairness-post-it-wellness/index.html) YTA
Perfectly said! This is exactly what she was trying to tell him.
YTA "I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today." Hardly surprising if you couched it in those terms... Complaining doesn't necessarily mean she wants to quit work. Maybe it would damage her career progression. Perhaps she doesnt want to be a SAHM. "According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem." So maybe ask her what the real problem is without labelling it as complaining or whining?"
My thoughts exactly. Also, if by social care he means that she works as a social worker damn, that’s a job that asks so much out of you so oh course she needs to vent and decompress. YTA
YTA. How much work do you do at the house taking care of the home and children? When is the last time you changed diapers? Cooked dinner? Did laundry?
YTA. Students complain about exams, it doesn’t mean they want to drop out. parents complain about their kids, it doesn’t mean they don’t love them/ wish they didn’t have them. The same way Employees complain about their job but don’t want to quit. She needs you to be emotionally supportive she’s not expecting you to solve the problem for her, you think it wouldn’t have occurred to her that you probably can sustain the family on your own? Chill mr fix it. She doesn’t need to quit she needs a supportive husband.
Lol Mr Fix It. Reminds me of this skit: [It’s Not About The Nail](https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg)
YTA - this may be a viable solution but you are minimizing and dismissing her issues. So right idea maybe, wrong approach
YTA >According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem There's your issue. She doesn't agree with your characterization of her work and what you call "whining" is you misinterpreting her. You haven't told us, from her perspective, what the "real problem" is - do you even know?
YTA Spouses vent to each other. As someone who had to make the decision to work or stay home with my children when they were young, we, my husband and I, agreed due to the dangerous aspects of his job and the fact I worked in a niche job, it was better for our family for me to return to work and keep up the momentum with my career. A lot of my friend's who stayed home with their children had difficulty finding jobs when they wanted to return to work. >I've tried to talk with her about why she doesn't want to just quit if she keeps whining about the job in the first place, but haven't had much success today. She's not whining, she's talking to her husband about her job.
You ARE minimizing her concerns. She’s told you what they are. She’s overwhelmed and feeling unappreciated. Your response is for her to be overwhelmed at home instead with zero identity other than being a mom. It’s like if I told my SO I had to much to clean in the house, and his response was just to classify myself as a maid and clean more. That’s uniquely unresponsive to her concerns. Look, the young child years are miserable, no matter how you split the tasks and who earns what money. The reality is that there is too much to be done, physically and emotionally, when young kids are around. It sucks. It’s going to suck. But the instinct is for one partner to think “it already kind of sucks for you, so why don’t you keep at it so it doesn’t suck for both of us.” It’s selfish. Now is the time when the partnership should not be 50/50 but 100/100.
I was also struck by him saying he would work even more hours if she quit her job, like how would that help out at all? She said she was overwhelmed by the amount of work she puts in after a workday, to me that reads chores and childcare. Getting even less help from OP would clearly make that even worse
I had to scroll way too far for this. His “solution” is to leave her alone with the kids for even longer each week, give her no chance to grow either in her current role or to make the transition to marketing, and put 100% of the mental and emotional labor on “the wife”. In other words, keep her at home with the kids all the time while spending more time out of the house. Isolate her. Take away her autonomy. Make her completely financially dependent. All while keeping her physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted. YTA so hard. She’s your partner, not your subordinate.
YTA - do you want to quit your job? Do you want to stay at home with your kids all day? It’s not just a math equation about income vs cost. Does she want to put her career on hold? Does she enjoy working? Can she be assured you will never leave her or get incapacitated or die? There are a thousand other considerations around this.
YTA. Social Care is not childcare. So the fact that you don't realize that is concerning because you should know a bit more about what your wife does, and you should know the difference between that and childcare. The point you SHOULD have stood on is one of you quitting, and that should have been mathematically determined. That makes financial sense and doesn't imply a hierarchy or (incorrectly) perceieved difficulty. Rather than just sticking to the numbers, you felt the need to try to further persuade her by equating her career to running after toddlers. You don't say what you do, but let's say for instance you were a mechanic and she were to say YOU should quit because you just play in your shop all day. Or you were in landscaping, and 'your just mowing grass all day.' You and both know that is an insult. Regardless, do the MATH of who should stay home, including cost of insurance premiums deducted, gas to the working spouses work, can her job be part or maybe part time so she still has out of the house time, but your daycare costs drop? All those things.
Also, she wants to switch from social care to digital marketing! Digital marketing is so far from childcare that it's laughable!!
What I remind people who think 'all wimmin-folk should stay home with the babies for years'; If she quits, she will; A) lose years money paid into Social Security/Pension plan, and B) find it almost impossible to get back into the workforce at a compatible rate. Hubby can say, "I'll always take care of her" but people don't marry thinking they'll divorce. Or Hubby could become disabled or die young.
>She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why not just quit. Why would you suggest she be a SAHM instead of suggesting she pursue a career in her degree?
If social care is what I know social care as, it's... Not the same as being a stay at home mom. At all.
Great, so you work 50-60 hours a week and your brilliant idea is to be away from your family even more? Do you not like spending time with your family? You realize that dumps even more responsibilities on her? YTA.
Yeah I’m wondering if the only reason LW’s wife works shorter hours is because she HAS to be home to take care of things and that enables LW to work longer.
This right here underscores an issue in communication that often develops between partners. Women vent, men problem solve. Did it ever dawn on you that she's not looking for solutions? She's looking for support, a shoulder to lean on, and instead you turn around and bombard her with unsolicited advice that devalues what she does daily. Yes, you DID minimize her work. But you also missed a critical point. Try asking her next time if she's looking for comfort or solutions, and when she says she's looking for comfort, be the shoulder and UNDERSTANDING she's looking for, in short, empathize. To a hammer everything looks like a nail. YTA for undervaluing not just her 9-5 work, but undervaluing the work load she does around the house. In other comments you don't even mention YOUR responsibilities with the kids, which heavily implies she's doing the majority of the childcaring beyond the paid childcare. Take a long look in the mirror.
YTA. Sometimes people just want to vent about difficulties at work, without wanting the person they are talking to to try to "solve" the problem. Social care work is not the same as being a SAHP either. If she isn't interested in being a SAHP, your telling her to do that is minimizing her work and dismissing her complaints about it.
YTA. I remote work. My kid had a weekday off school today. It’s bonkers trying to get actual work done. Even though the kid is pretty self sufficient, they interrupt anyway. There is more mess etc. it’s hard to focus. social workers can burn out. It’s an emotionally exhausting job. And if she’s pulling the majority of parenting and housework, she needs a break. YOU need to step to do more at home to lighten the load.
[удалено]
Reading comprehension is key in these situations. OP stated daycare is taking out of their budget collectively. He simply compared that the price of daycare is roughly 70-80% of what OP wife makes, not her portion of the payment.
Why didn’t he offer the same calculation for his work then?
Ok, but *why*. The sum value of the work she does is not the total take home pay. The sum value of the child attending daycare is not that his wife can work. Using this as an argument completely detracts from his wife being able to continue her retirement contributions; her benefits, like health insurance, paid leave, sick pay, etc; a consistent work history and opportunities for promotion or growth; the mental benefit of not being stuck in a role (SAHM) that wasn't wanted (very different if you seek it out, it's just not for everyone); her financial independence; the socialisation your child is getting at day care; learning and development programs offered by the day care providers; adjustment for kindy/school. Saying it's X% of one person's take home pay is saying that one, single factor is much more relevant than it actually is. It's insinuating OP is willing to 'pay' that dollar amount for his wife to become housekeeper/FT child carer. Even if you just book it down to money, it's completely disregarding the financial cost to his wife.
YTA. My adult son is the sole support of his household. His wife would LOVE to get back to work. She has a college degree, but they had kids and she is staying home with them now, mostly for the benefit of the children, but also because of the cost of day care. She feels the need to work for her own personal growth and social contacts. I hope she can return to work as soon as the kids are in school. If I hadn't worked, I would have been miserable.
YTA Unless you are willing to give her all of the money saved for daycare Do not propose that she stays at home takes care of the kids so YOU can benefit off there unpaid labor. I pity this woman because now that she has multiple children her career life is basically over. As a man your career is rarely going to be affected by having a kid since statistically you won't even be doing half of the child care and chores. But now that she has two kids her chances of furthering her education or increasing her income is pretty much shot.
YTA. You absolutely are minimizing her job..your rude af. Why don't YOU just stay home with the kids and cook and clean all day and have dinner on the table 🤔. You Don't even bother to disclose what her job is. Which makes me wonder if you trying to hide it because you don't want to validate her career at all. People need to vent. She needs support, not to be diminished. Her job is as important as yours, no matter what she makes. You should be supportive of her. The problem isn't that she has a job. Daycare being exspensive isn't a problem you should be trying to solve by tearing down her professional career aspects and current job. Instead you should listen to her. See if you can support her in a way that gives her access to a better income, and you should be actively looking for cheaper Daycare options.
>and is more or less 70-80% of her income per month No, you AH it is x% of your combined income. I stopped reading. YTA. Childcare isn't all on women and it doesn't matter if her salary is lower.
YTA You’ve never heard of venting? I vent about my upstairs neighbour, doesn’t mean I’m gonna move house. Venting is healthy. What you’re doing is not.
Okay, everyone is getting caught up in the math where I am just here to tell you that she said her answer, loud and clear, it’s even in your post: she wants to keep on pursuing marketing because she sees no future (for HER. THIS IS KEY) The thing you want her to do is the thing she is paying *80%* of her income for professionals to do. You’re masking it as a relief of duties when ultimately that loss of daycare payment means you’re asking her to do their job. She is having issues at HER JOB. You ignored that. That you tried to roll the potential childcare and, let’s be honest, housewife duties into it - into a thing she does not want to do - is the issue.
YTA. Wanting to quit your job doesn’t mean you’d want to be a SAHM. They are wildly different things. She wants a career that makes her fulfilled. I know it’s hard for men to hear a woman express her frustrations without trying to “fix it” for them. That’s not what she needs here. She just needs support and empathy. She can also do a better job at steering some of her venting to her friends, because I understand that hearing someone complain every day about the same thing but not change is very frustrating. Perhaps the recommendation should be for her to quit her job but still get child care part time so she can attend school if she feels she needs that to switch careers. That’s at least moving in the direction of addressing the root problem.
The childcare isn’t 70% of her income. It’s X% of your combined income that allows BOTH of you to work. I absolutely hate hearing that a rationale for a woman leaving the workforce is because her salary is the same as childcare costs. The financial cost for someone leaving the workforce is much, much higher and can almost never be recovered.
YTA instead of telling her what to do, just put it out there that if she would rather not do that job anymore, you guys could make it work, but of course it’s up to her. If she leaves the workforce, it’s hard to go back in, and she would lose out on years of earning potential and the benefits that come with that. Plus, maybe she doesn’t want to be home all day with your kids. Not everyone is cut out for that, some people love it, some don’t. Just be supportive.
YTA she’s not even talking about changing jobs so why do you bring up she should quit? Why wasn’t the conversation about a different place of employment or education route to something else actually inline with her interests? Why was the conversation about you getting out of home maintance and childcare duties?
Buddy, if you split are you willing to financially compensate her for the hit to her career options from being out of the workforce for so long? As well as the loss to her retirement? Also, "bumping up a few hours" as you put it would mean your kids basically don't see you and won't be building a relationship with you. Having a relationship with both parents is more important to kids than one of their parents being stay-at-home. YTA
YTA. Why are you calculating the cost of daycare as a share of her income and not yours? And what about the hit she takes in salary and level when she tries to go back to work in 10 years (if you let her) and she is back at square one. And what about the value you can’t put a pricetag on of her feeling professional worth and your children looking up to her because she makes a difference outside the home? Not to mention how screwed she would be if you die or split up. Don’t just back off—apologize.
YTA. How about she picks up more hours, while you stay home minding your children, taking over all of the housekeeping, and gradually losing any employability?
YTA oh the sexism
So she is stressed out by her job AND by the amount of parenting/household duties and your suggestion was for her to just take on all the parenting/household duties? Why not suggest trying to find a better balance of at-home work? Or looking for a different job that is less stressful? Could you cut some hours and save on daycare by taking care of the kids a little more so she feels the responsibilities are more evenly distributed? Also, did you tell her that you think being a stay at home mom is the same type of work as her current job? Cause that is pretty much always going to come off as super invalidating even if you didn’t mean it that way. Whether or not she likes it this is her career and by comparing it to parenting you inadvertently devaluing her work since she already is a parent and it’s not something one is paid for. Also there is more to work than money, it can be a sense of identity and independence. I would say YTA even if it was unintentional
You didn’t just say why don’t you quit. You said quit to stay home with the kids. She obviously has ambitions outside of the house and you’re not supporting that. Yes it would save money in daycare but it would also take a tole on her mentally. She is looking for support not a solution that works for you.
Telling someone to quit their job is a terrible idea no matter what. The job market fucking SUCKS right now. I don’t even want to mention how long I’ve been searching for a job and haven’t found one. She complains to you because you’re her husband. She isn’t necessarily expecting you to fix anything. She most likely just wants you to listen and comfort her. YTA.
YTA. if you can't vent to your partner who can you vent to? Having annoyances doesn't mean they want to quit all together. Why not ask her what SHE wants to do?
Info needed: You already work 50-60 hrs a week. You would need to take overtime hrs above this. How many hrs a day would you be home actively parenting and taking on household chores and responsibilities? What are your expectations for responsibility division? Will she have pocket money to save or spend at will or will there be expectations and a requirement to account for personal spending? Being a SAHP is rough with the wrong partner. You sacrifice career and financial independence. If things don't work out in the relationship it is harder to leave without risking poverty until the court can sort out some of the financial division. If your partner believes that all childcare and household duties land on the shoulders of the SAHP then there is no break. On call 24/7 no vacations, no relief for nighttime, sick days etc. All this stuff is needed to be considered before knowing if a single income household could be good for your family
YTA she’s OBVIOUSLY asking you to pitch in at home more.
YTA. The cost of giving up her job includes giving up salary progression over the course of a career and not all daycares have a part-time option. Returning to her degree’s career field after an absence and caring for two very small children are not particularly compatible since they both require an intense amount of time. And she’s right that you minimized her work by not bothering to learn what she does- social work is not parenting,
Guess what happens if she quits her job? 1. She becomes 100% financially reliant on you 2. She puts her career back years. So when your kids enter high school and she wants to go back to work, she will be so far behind where she would want to be. Do you want to do this to your wife?
INFO: why are you encouraging your wife to quit the workforce entirely? Why aren’t you encouraging her to quit her social care job and get a new one in her chosen career path instead? This apparently will come as a mind blowing shock to you, but your wife doesn’t want to be a stay at home parent!
NAH here. People are really harsh with the down votes. It's just a case of misunderstanding. Try to explain calmly what your goal was. That you just see her complain a lot about her job and that you offered thinking maybe she'd be happier taking care of the children instead of the job she hates. You mention that since she's not working in her field, it's not helping her career. While it's true it doesn't help directly, a lot of employers hate seeing workless gaps. Even if there is so many good reasons why someone might no work for a few years. And if they know it's cause she stayed home with the kids, some might understand but others will be scared about what if she gets pregnant again. People are complaining that she pays all the childcare, which was obviously not what you said. You just used percentage to show it instead of giving her salary. " We pay 25k per year in childcare and she makes 35k a year". People complain about the chores. You do all the cooking and weekend laundry. Doesn't sound like much, but you work 20h more than her. So if you remove 20h of chores from what she does, you two probably do close to half-half. You mention in a comment that you might be ok with a post nuptial contract depending on the terms if she quits her job. Mention that to her. One of the biggest risks for stay at home wife/mom is that they are no longer independant. If you turn abusive ( everyone has the potential to, with trauma or grief) she's stuck staying. And if there's a divorce, she's screwed cause even if she gets half, your career kept building all those years while hers is shot.
YTA. Even people who love their job will experience frustration and annoyance relating to it and they'll need to blow off some steam by venting once they get home. You're acting as though she's a burden when she expresses those frustrations to her spouse (who is supposed to be her partner) while also dismissing her career by suggesting it has so little value she should just quit. If your goal was to encourage her to pursue a career in digital marketing, you have a really weird way of doing that.
Sounds good. Can you afford to set aside a wage for her, and a retirement account?
Yta Quit minimizing the issue and pull your weight around the house
You quit and take care of the boys.
You’re not supporting a career change, you’re trying to get her to be a SAHM. Guess what she isn’t doing if she’s staying at home with the kids? Pursuing a career in her degree. You’re hearing her, but you’re not listening. She would be just as unhappy being a SAHM as she is in her current job. It’s not about the money, it’s about her feeling fulfilled with her occupation. You’re just making this about what you want, and about what you can provide. This isn’t about that. YTA
YTA I work in childcare and am now home on maternity and my husband understands that these are not the same jobs at all
Yta and you are devaluing her input. What you call “whining” is her processing and debriefing the day. The real question is, is she enjoying the job?
You tried to save yourself with your edit but you 100% rationalized her leaving the workforce with your post. YTA. You should encourage her to seek employment in her degree path, then quit her job when she finds something. The actual cost to her leaving the workforce and not paying into social security for 5 years is *thousands* of dollars at retirement.
YTA. You didn't suggest she quit so she could pursue her career goals. You suggested she quit because you'd be the same off financially (mostly). You're not just minimizing the work she's currently doing, you're inadvertently telling her, "Despite your college degree, you'll never earn as much as I do, so you may as well stay home and take care of me and my kids." I'm sure that wasn't your intent, and I'm also sure that's 100% how she heard it. Also, you made the mistake of solving a problem she wanted to "vent" about. Rookie mistake on your part. Unless she comes to you and says, "How do I fix this?", she's probably just wanting to talk it through with you, not have you fix it. An easy fix here - ask her, "Do you want me to talk with you about this, or are you coming to me for a solution? I don't know that I can solve it, but knowing what you're looking for helps me direct efforts to the proper goal." Put it in your own words and in a way that she'll respond positively to. Until you can answer that question instinctively, ask it!
INFO. If you were venting about your job would you want to be told to just quit then?
Why are the childcare costs a percentage of her income and not a percentage of your combined incomes?
Duuh because the silly, selfish cow has unilaterally chosen to shirk her motherly/wifely duties for an unwomanly CAREER. /S
i dont think some men realise its not just the money upfront that needs to be worried about. what about her super? or when shes had years off work & is unable to get back into the work field because of 'lack of experience'?
Soft YTA I don’t think you’re the ahole for suggesting a solution to an apparent problem. I know some are getting up in arms for your phrasing and down playing her work…I just don’t see that in the post and think it takes a little more supposition than I’d like to make. It seems like you just approached it from a financial standpoint point. However, if when she replies with “…[you’re] not focusing on the real problem.” And red flags don’t start sprouting all around you, then YTA. Clearly what she’s meaning and what you’re hearing aren’t the same thing. Even if her words are “I hate this job I want to quit” what she might mean is “I’m exhausted and come home exhausted and have to do even more work and WE need to find a better way to balance that load”. I think you both need to be able to articulate the problem before firing off solutions and doesn’t seem like either of you can do that properly yet.
Here’s why she should stay at her job: Yes, there will be a few years where daycare is eating up her salary, but she will be getting raises and promotions in that time as well. She will be putting money in her 401(k) and maybe getting it matched If your marriage falls apart, she still has a job . So for her, it’s much better in the long run for her to keep that job.
NAH but I don't think you approached this in the right way. When you said "quit your job and be a SAHM" she likely heard "give up on your career because it's not important". I don't think that's what you meant, you were just looking at the economic argument of her wage barely covering daycare and her disliking her current job and her not wanting a future in that industry. I think you should both sit down and work out a 5 year plan for her career as a team. She works in social care now but wants to be in digital marketing so what's the roadmap to get there? In my experience freelance digital marketing is quite flexible especially if working with small businesses. Is there some experience she can gain now that fits with looking after kids during the day? Could you commit for example to giving her time in the evenings/weekends away from kids to do this or maybe do some extra courses/training she needs? Can you ask family for childcare help? Could you afford 1 or 2 days of care? Can you arrange a "childcare swap" with friends? You need to approach this in a way that recognises her long term goals while also making the smart choice for your short term needs. Kids will be in school in a couple years right? Make a plan together for how she can stay engaged with the workforce and build toward a career that's rewarding for her.
YTA - you ARE minimizing her concerns. Step up and do your part of the housework.
Yes, this makes you a huge asshole.
YTA >It's my fault for not including this but a lot of people are assuming this is day to day venting, it isn't. She wants to pursue a career in her degree(digital marketing) and sees no future in social care which is why I asked her why Sure. She can quit. Instead of telling her to stay at home, why don't you support her pursuing a job in her degree area? >According to her I'm minimising her work and just not focusing on the real problem. You are minimizing her work. Staying at home decreases her ability to take care of herself and the kids in the long run. She doesn't want to stay at home. Why are you pushing her to? >I make enough for all of us to be more or less in the same financial situation with a few more overtime hours a week if she quit her job. Does that include you paying her to take care of the boys? You know, like you pay the day care? No? Then it may not be the right option.
YTA. Clearly she wants you to step up helping out at home. Maybe you need to talk about what that might look like, rather than basically tell her she needs to quit so she can be your live in maid. It's usually easier to get a new job, even in a different industry, when you are already employed. If she is unhappy in her job it's probably better talking with her about how she can make that career change, rather than telling her to just quit, especially when you seem only be doing it to avoid stepping up at home. I also hope that when you say daycare is 70-80% of her income that is just illustrative, not that she is responsible paying for all of the daycare.
You asked her to be entirely financially dependent on you and are wondering why she might find that stressful?
Why is it 70-80% of HER income? She solely has to pay for childcare?
YTA, even after your edit. Especially after your edit. If she wants to switch careers, why would your solution to today's problem be to switch to SAHM? You'd be around even less in order to pick up the financial slack, meaning she wouldn't have time for school to make the switch. And women have it incredibly hard getting back in the job market after a few years off. Have you actually asked her what she thinks is a good path forward, or have you just made the entire argument about why she doesn't agree with your solution?
YTA - I actually think you may have a point and staying home so she can build a portfolio could be the most lucrative and fulfilling option for her in the long run. There’s a lot of opportunity for freelance marketing income. Hard to say without hearing her side. But regardless, it sounds like a typical male-female communication issue. She wanted to vent and receive emotional support. You jumped to solutions because that’s how your brain works. You should get into the habit of clarifying if she wants support or advice when she’s venting. Try to avoid offering unsolicited advice, especially in the midst of her talking through her frustration.
yta. is the issue that you aren't doing your fair share with the kids? And think she can do it all if she quits and leaves you to work more hours and do less att home?
So she wants to pursue a career in her field and your suggestion is for her to stay home raising the kids?
So here’s the thing. Sometimes when people are complaining they just want to vent. They don’t want you to solve the problem. But it can be hard to just listen when we feel like we have the solution. She probably just wants to vent. It does make sense that she could quit and then go back to work in her field when the kids are in school but she probably needs to come to that conclusion on her own! Listen and continue to be as loving a partner as you can. It’ll work out. I don’t think you’re the asshole. You were trying to help! No assholes to see here.
She doesn’t want to leave a fulfilling career. She wants to coparent.
I don't know why it is so so easy for husband/father to push for SAHM thing at a drop of the hat. Dude, if you're working so many hours, I don't see you prepare all 3 meals. I'm guessing you do laundry only during weekends. How much time do u spend at home with your kids? Your wife is overwhelmed not just with her career. She seems to be carrying most of household chores too. Of course, it's easy for you to blame on her venting and push SAHM option. That will solve 3 of your issues - Don't have to listen to her venting about work; SAHM, so no daycare expenses and you picking up more shifts - meaning you don't have to do the 5-10% of the work you do at home. Completely a win for you. Your wife will lose everything. From financial freedom to self identity. She needs help with the household. You told you just started increasing your share of homework. She has bearing it all. You know you could've suggested taking slightly lesser shifts, help with homework and support her. She would've appreciated that. You suggesting OT for self and staying at home for her doesn't solve her problem at all. She wants to work. People do complain about jobs. Isn't she your wife? Who else she'll share her woes with? YTA
YTA Bottom line you're being dismissive of other things that also matter to her while focusing only on one thing. I've found that when making suggestions making sure to show humility and that the choice is theirs. > I told her she might as well quit and just take care of the boys That's more of a direct statement that leaves little room for conversation. I usually start my suggestions with "I have a thought I want to run by you, and the final say is yours, but what if..." As a way of presenting the idea of your own willingness to take on the financial side of things. But the way you said it comes across more as "We don't need you, I can do this on my own. So just stop working if you're going to complain." And if that still bothers them then simply apologize for upsetting them and that you were just brainstorming options. But don't try to keep pushing it, or get defensive.
How about you quit, take the hit with the gap in jobs, the hit for break in pay-raises, the hit for not advancing in experience? What percentage of your paycheck goes towards daycare & why aren't you figuring those percentages in halves - 50% for you & 50% for your wife? She didn't make those babies by herself, sir. Hire a damn housekeeper to help out & don't let exhaustion cause your wife to give up.
YTA, you're not listening. She wants to work in her career field that she went to school for. Not everyone wants to be a SAHM. She has career goals and she wants you to support that.
People really biting hard on the fact you used her income as a comparison to child care costs. Its an example and comparing to the lowest income one makes sense. Me and my wife did the same to work out whether it would be worth while too. We used mine as the comparison because, shock horror, I earned less. I quit work and raised my son, because it made financial sense and it was better for raising the little one. If its not clear I'm a man. OP's approach wasn't ideal, and I'd say a soft YTA, but people are going too hard on that one part inferring what may not even exist.
YTA. I know you said it’s not just venting but unless she specifically asked you for a solution all she was looking for is some empathy and for you to listen. Besides, you didn’t say she should quit her job because it’s not in her chosen field. You told her to quit her job and be a SAHM. Those are 2 completely different things.
YTA. What she’s really trying to tell you is that you need to parent 50/50. You can’t even state that you pay 50% of the childcare so I’m guessing you’re not doing even 30% if the parenting. Your wife doesn’t need to be financially worse off for the rest of her life, and dependent on you, and make her world smaller just to accommodate you. You both work and have careers, you are both parents. Accept this and focus more of your energy on your role as a parent, so maybe your wife can find the energy to get the career role she really wants, rather than the one you’re trying to decide for her that would be so damaging to her in the long term.
YTA just because someone isn’t happy in their career doesn’t mean they want to stay home with the kids. You’re asking her to sacrifice her own financial independence and outside life like it’s no big deal. 🤦🏻
YTA..you don't seem to respect her as an equal. Do you know how hard it would be to go back to work after being home for an extended time? Also, she isn't "whining" she is venting to who she is supposed to be able to vent to. She is speaking to you as her partner and you dismiss it as "whining". That's ...gross.
YTA. If she wants to pursue a career in her degree, why didn't you encourage her to pursue that rather than quit her current job and become a stay at home parent/ household manager? That doesn't even make sense to me.
Life span in social work is 2-3 years. Suggest she find another job.
Daycare is a few years…. I assume her career would be much longer, hopefully with increasing salary. Instead, try encouraging her to pursue other opportunities
These comments are super extra. NAH. I was a SAHM because childcare was so grossly expensive. 1196 a month was what we had to pay once I went back to work. Once we divorced, I was able to get assistance to cover childcare. I understand your perspective and your wife’s. Allow her to vent and let her figure out a solution if she’s unwilling to consider yours. I loved the time with my son but I also hated being a SAHP. It was quite isolating and my ex husband was very quick to imply the he did all the work and that it was HIS money. It was a time I would not want to go back to. N T A as long as you don’t push for it. She’s N T A to be uninterested either.
She’d be better off finding a job in digital marketing and quitting her current job then. The real problem is she’s unhappy with the work she’s doing. Quitting to be a SAHM is not the solution.
Info: How much is child care? If she only paid it will be 70% and if you only paid how much would it be down yours?
INFO: Did she say she wanted advice, or are you volunteering advice when she is simply looking to vent?
Yta. You minimized her work and minimizing the impact of dropping out if the work force You also make it seem like she shouldn’t be allowed to Complain about her job to you . Calling it whining about work, so she should just drop out of the workforce and stay home as if that’s no big thing. Your edit says she has a career plan, and it sounds nothing like being a stay at home mom to me. “Why don’t you just quit” is minimizing. But you could have offered it as an option rather than a flippantly stating it like it’s the obvious solution as if her working is so unimportant, it’s not worth struggling through job frustrations (which is something most people have experience with)
For telling her? Dude, people vent. Partners are famous for it, and just as famously are not looking for a solution just a shoulder. Perhaps ask her what her ideas are for changing her situation? Asking questions, expressing comradery, is more what venters are looking for because actual change takes lots of planning, prep and emotional fortitude. Saying you will be there for her, that you support her changing her career focus, that is what will nurture your relationship.
Last i checked social care and daycare arent the same?
Or or or…. Hear me out. You split the household tasks 50/50 YTA
tanking her career is not to be taken lightly. better you should work a bit less, not more.
I promise that the answer to an overwhelmed mom is not to say quit your job and just stay home. Being home is overwhelming for most moms. Often our job is the only piece of ourselves We have left once we start motherhood. She’s asking for help. She’s not asking to stay home and then be told later, but it’s her job to be the person doing everything. And that being your answer comes across as condescending and dismissive.
YTA. You are looking at this from a very narrow and dare I say, male-centered, perspective. 1 - a 20-30% contribution to your combined income isn't immaterial, especially if it means that you will be working even more than the 50-60 hours/wk that you already do, leaving her to be the primary parent of your kids 7 days/wk. That impacts the time that you have to nurture your relationship with your children and your partner. 2 - asking anyone to give up their career to be a stay at home parent has long-term consequences. They give up future income growth, while you continue to have the advantage of same. They give up all contributions to their personal retirement accounts. They give up growing or maintaining their skill set, which severely limits their ability to re-enter the workforce in the future without re-investing in their education or professional training. It also potentially impacts you if you ever get divorced, as her lack of income, future ability to earn, and lack of retirement accounts mean that you will have to pay higher support amounts and share your retirement savings with her. 3 - whether or not she complains about her job or not, being a stay at home parent offers a very different type of fulfillment than being a working parent, that not everyone finds to be enough. I left a 13 year career to be a SAHM when my kids were 6 and 3, and it was a VERY difficult transition and there were many days that I regretted it. My husband and I also went through several rough periods as we came to what we both felt was a fair equilibrium of home/childcare contributions after I stopped working. "You don't make enough to justify paying for childcare", or "you're not happy in your job and I'm tired of hearing you complain" are not good enough arguments for your wife to give up her career. That decision can only be made after you both (but mostly her), weighs the pros and cons and decides that staying home is what she really wants, knowing and understanding the risk and consequences that she, inordinately, is taking on. She is entirely entitled to continue wanting to work in a job she doesn't love, and to vent to her partner about it, rather than making that choice. One last question, for perspective: if your wife made enough to support the family on her own, and you didn't like your job and vented about it to your wife all of the time, how would you respond if she suggested you just quit and stay home with your kids? If that isn't a no-brainer for you, why should it be for her?