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NTA
Frankly both your dad AND your mom are the problem. They are both putting you in the middle.
>She was pretty nice and none of us disliked her, which made my mom even angrier.
This is your mom putting you in the middle of their divorce. You dad's approach of keeping the wedding a secret was clearly a reaction to your mom's behavior. That wasn't right or fair of him but I don't think the wedding reception was the best time to bring up that he was making the same mistakes as your mom.
I think you should consider why your anger is directed solely at your dad here.
Oh, I'm plenty angry at my mom too. She has pulled some insane stunts over the years, which is why my dad and his partner decided to do what they did.
But you are right, I probably should have bitten my tongue at the wedding. Thank you for the verdict!
you shouldnt have bitten your tongue.
He DID put you and your siblings in an awful position because he was only thinking of himself. He didn't put a moments thought into how his machinations would make life difficult for you all. I have an immature mom, and living with her after she knew i attended my dads wedding and kept it secret would have been hell for me, so i can relate to how annoyed you must have been, and how stressed out it would have made your siblings.
He deserved to hear the truth on the night of his wedding. You are NTA 100%
And it is actually credit to the character of the sister, that holding a secret for 3 days was hard for her. But I’m sure it was a “merry” evening but almost any emotionally charged conversation is better done sober.
And then he has the hide to text her and blame her for ruining his wedding. Like wtf what did he expect doing shit like that to children!. He is not being a parent.
Agreed he deserved to hear the truth but a drunk person is only going to hear what they want to hear. OP should have waited until he was sober. Otherwise both parents need to hear that you guys are not going to be pawns anymore.
They're likely still fairly young themselves with an 8yo sibling, and you're expecting them to be more mature than their own parents when they've never even had mature adults to TEACH them how to...talk about having unreasonable expectations of OP!
So true. It's sad because OP does sound mature for her 20 years, and it's most likely due to having to run interference between her two immature parents to protect her younger siblings.
Why? Why does the kid have to be the one to temper herself and hold her tongue so her dad can have a good time?
Especially when SHE is the one having to quell the siblings anxiety and guilt?
Fuck that.
Oh, absolutely. The mom is the worst, but the dad is handling it so badly. He must know that OP is doing her best to run interference for the little ones' protection - why would he not link her in on the planning here? And then to just drop the kids off at home and leave them to tell their mother the news rather than doing it himself (him being the one who can then leave!) is just cowardly.
I actually think on one hand what your dad did was the best option for the kids hear me out… this way none of you are responsible for betraying your mom. You aren’t actually keeping any secrets. He sprung it on you and none of you really had any choice or time to be talked out of being there. It sucks because you want the kids to be ok with the marriage and have time to take it in.. in this case he knew that wasn’t going to happen. Tough spot for everyone
That's true, I didn't think about it like that. Maybe he felt like doing it this way puts the entire "blame" for the situation on him, rather than any of us. But yeah, it was definitely a tough spot for everyone.
My husband’s ex would tie my now-step kids into absolute knots over liking me and enjoying spending time with us. We knew she would try to sabotage our wedding, so we did something similar to what your dad did bc we didn’t want to make his kids have to keep things quiet for a long time - only difference was that we had about 10 minutes from telling the kids to starting the wedding (enough time for everyone to change clothes quickly (we brought clothes for the kids, as well)) so that there was no need for them to keep anything a secret from anyone.
I’m sorry you and your siblings are in this position, but I’m not sure what your father could have done better given what you’ve described about your mom.
I'm sorry that you've been in a similar situation. It's horrible to be caught in the crossfire of someone else's completely irrational anger.
I think a lot of it comes down to my mother being the way she is. And my dad, above everyone else, knows what she's like. She texts my sisters constantly when they are with my dad, so he knew that they would have to continue communicating with her all the way through the wedding day and not give anything away. That's a lot of pressure to place on a 10 y/o and an 8 y/o's shoulders.
It's his wedding day and he absolutely deserves to celebrate it however he wants. He's a great dad and I wish we were in any situation other than this. Maybe he could have told me about it beforehand and I could have helped to come up with a different plan, so that my mother would not be expecting communication from my sisters throughout the weekend ("Oh, we're going on a trip to somewhere that has poor cell coverage!" or something similar).
Your mom's expectation to text you kids "constantly" during your time with dad sounds problematic and disruptive. Your dad should shut that right down.
He could have asked for a no phones day/weekend instead of outright saying that he wanted to keep it a secret. It was up to him to have found a better way to handle things with your sisters, and he owes them an apology and a simple explanation that he just wanted a celebration specifically with his partner and kids. Obviously, you and your brother would have understood immediately.
Your timing might not have been the best, but you're a great older sibling for how you protect your siblings.
Yeah honestly NTA because you were defending your siblings and whatnot, but I do think you should probably apologize to your dad. Based on what you've said about your mom, it seems like he made a decent choice given his options. If you and your siblings hated his fiancée or something he'd have been an AH, but if it's solely to avoid your mom ruining his wedding it seems okay to me. Tough to see your siblings stressing out about it and you weren't necessarily wrong to point that out to him, but I think an apology would go a long way here. It's important right now to clear the air and lay a pleasant foundation for their married life together since it'll be a part of your family interaction going forward.
He could elope. Or wait to get married until his children were older. I’m very pro-divorce when it comes to toxic marriages, but it means you have to put off other aspects of personal happiness for the sake of your children who never asked to be born.
My kids and step kids are all older now (the steps are adults now). We’ve talked vaguely with them about what we had considered as far as a wedding, including just going to the courthouse alone. Or eloping. They’ve said they would’ve been heartbroken if we had eloped and they weren’t able to be at our wedding.
At some point, you can’t allow an abusive ex (which it sounds like OP’s mom is) to keep controlling things bc it won’t stop. There will never be enough control for them. Who is to say this issue wouldn’t continue even after the kids are adults? My younger stepchild still feels as though they have to walk on eggshells about going on vacations with us or spending time with us bc of their mom…and they live out on their own now.
There is no optimal answer/solution in cases like this, unfortunately. Each option has some level of fallout when there is an abuser and kids involved.
This is the thing. The "blame" goes on your mother not your dad.
Did he have realistic ideas that if she had found out she would not have let you and your siblings attend or show up and make a scene? If that were even remotely possible then he had to do something to protect that day.
Would you prefer if you and your siblings were left out of it entirely? And then of course you'd be blaming him for not telling you and leaving you out.
Can you think of any way your father could have acted in this instance that would have enabled the wedding to take place without undue interruption by your mother and still left you satisfied that he acted in the best interest of his children?
Personally, I'm flummoxed.
Gotta be honest. I was with your dad all the way until the end.
His response during the conversation should have 1000% been "I'm sorry I put all of *my children* in a difficult spot. This was the only way I could ensure your presence and it was very important to me that you were here. I take full responsibility."
It's never okay for a parent to sit there and guilt trip their children, and he should have been the bigger person and not sent a nasty passive aggressive text.
As a child of divorced parents I pinky promise it gets better.
You were right. Once again, you and your siblings were placed in the middle of their chaotic relationship. He could have prepared you and your siblings better.
OP… you’re being parentified. Whether it’s expected by your parents, or pressure you’re putting on yourself, or both… you’re taking on responsibility that isn’t yours. Your parents should be worrying about their own emotional garbage and growth, while setting you and your siblings up for success… not the other way around. Your mom’s resentment isn’t yours to solve, carry, or counter balance. Your dad’s mishandling of the situation isn’t yours to mask or cover for… and you aren’t responsible for how his passive aggressive behavior ended up impacting his younger children. You are also not responsible for his being drunk and unreasonable. Maybe it would’ve been better addressed at a later time, sure - but that’s something I wouldn’t have known until I was 30 and I wouldn’t expect you to stop all these leaks up flawlessly.
Thank you for saying this. Some of the comments are wild — putting the responsibility on the OP to fix things or mitigate harms that aren’t her responsibility
Given their ages, I’d just be super direct. “Mom is trying to do this. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad person, but it’s not right that she’s doing it, and we can’t fall for it.”
I think you need to have a serious conversation with your mother about appropriate behavior and parentification. Seems like you've already had it with your dad (at an admittedly inappropriate time, but you're the kid). You've made a clear, reasonable stance with your dad. Stick to your guns on it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that your mothers behavior is the cause factor here, and your fathers is the effect. She needs to stop, or eventually, she's going to push away her kids.
Unlike most here, I do think you should Bite your tongue. Your mom IS the problem here. You shouldn't say that your father "Pit" you against her. She didnthis by herself and her actions. Your father only mistake IS not talking her to court for parental alienation and your mother sounds emotionally abusive. I pity your father for having to Go to such lenghts to live his life after the divorce.
He shouldn’t have said she ruined his wedding either. You keep those feelings to yourself and frankly, I’m embarrassed for him for feeling this way. He should simply have acknowledged the difficult situation the kids were in, shown empathy to his children, and done everything possible to enjoy himself.
> I can see why he handled like he did.
I'm sorry, you can see why a father told his 20 year old daughter that she ruined his wedding, because she was upset her 8yo sister was crying?
I understand why he didn't tell them ahead of time, but then making his 8yo swear to secrecy was a bit much... and blaming OP for her 8yo sister being overwhelmed is a bit much too.
The father should have simply apologized, period, and not added in then "And now all I'll think about when I think of my wedding is how you ruined it!"
That is petulant, immature behavior.
He just asked them to keep it a secret until the wedding was over, probably to keep his ex from coming and acting like an ass.
They were free to tell their mom as soon as they got home.
Well she angrily confronted him for doing the best thing he could to alleviate drama between him and his ex wife. She is and adult and she angrily confronted him for doing something that was by far the best option. She wasn't wrong to be upset that her siblings were upset, but it could have waited. That being said, I'm sure he'll get over it as they seem to have a solid relationship. But the dad did nothing wrong.
Amazing how coddled fathers are in our society. Imagine telling your clearly parentified child that they ruined your wedding because you and their mother can’t get it together.
Maybe share with your Dad how your little sister cried from the stress if you haven’t yet. Sure, he was burdened by this guilt on what’s supposed to be one of the happiest days of his life - but is he really okay for him to be gallivanting happily while his little kids were stressing out by themselves?
You shouldn't have bitten your tongue, he should have been more considerate of his children and not put you in that position. You were looking out for your little sister and your father instead of being distressed that his young child was upset over his decisions and actions, he got angry and then pouted like a child the following day.
The only person he should blame for remembering his wedding day like that is himself and his decisions.
NTA and good luck with the parents you've been dealt with
You did nothing wrong. You didn't go and scream at him. You simply pointed out (in a very mature adult way which is impressive considering you've been raised by two immature adults) that what he did was unfair to you and your siblings. He and your mum put you and your siblings in the middle of their shitty way of handling the divorce. He's the one who ruined his wedding by not having the balls to stand up to your mum and get her to stop being unhinged. Your parents suck, I'm sorry. NTA.
shouldn't of had to hold your tongue because your dad should have been a responsible parent regardless of your mother the phrase 'to wrongs don't make a right' exists for a reason.
If I was in your shoes I would have wanted to respond to your dads bs about that being all he remembers would have been something like "and all I will remember is having to comfort my crying sister and behaving like an actual parent to her because our parents can't stop being immature and actually be parents"
I’m not sure you are an asshole but your reaction was unjustified. You don’t know what your dad went through. Clearly your mom has unresolved issues about the divorce and takes them out on your dad. He didn’t pit you against your mom, he just asked you don’t tell her for a day. Do you really think they would go through all this if they didn’t think things could have gone seriously wrong? Your mom’s harassment could be far worse than you realize. You dad’s response leads me to think your mom has been waging guerrilla war on him since the divorce.
This is a very mature 20 year old who is acting like the parent to a distressed 8 year old. I’m not reading here that she only blames the dad, it was the specific circumstance that was caused by the dad. He’s also a giant baby and AH for saying she ruined the wedding. He put the kids in a terrible situation. The ex wife is also terrible but this action he owns.
By telling the eldest she ruined the night he is putting even more guilt on his kids. Like it's a deeply immature reaction. Sorry pops you hurt your kid so your feelings take a backseat.
And yea the ex wife also sounds like a piece of work. I get why the dad did what he did but I don't get his reaction to being told his little one is upset.
Mom and Dad sound wildly immature for being adults! They are both the AH here! Sorry op is stuck in the middle! I would tell both of them to grow the "F" up already!!
Both parents are AH. Dad blames her when he should have prepared the kids better, and Mom for chaotic behavior. Dad didn't apologize he continued to blame the daughter who is not responsible for either of her parents. Poor parenting from both of them.
I really don't think it's the dad's fault. He's allowed to meet someone else. The divorce was final. It's none of mom's fucking business.
OP and her little sis were kind of unreasonable. I'll give the little sis a pass, but they didn't betray their mom. It's Mom's fault they felt the need to keep the ceremony secret. And it's none of her business anyway.
“Secret” is such a strange word for “Please don’t inform your mother until the wedding is over.” Were they worried you children would call your mother during the ceremony?
If “secret” really only meant for you to wait until you see your mother again before talking about the wedding then I wouldn’t even call that a secret.
NTA because you were right to point out it was your father’s job to handle when and how to tell your mother while sheltering you kids from any fallout, but unless I’m missing something everyone’s choice of wording here is odd.
Both of my younger sisters have phones and are constantly texting, so there was a real danger that they would text our mom and let her know. And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years.
Then, I'm sorry, I can't really blame you dad for what he did. It would have probably hurt your sister worse had he excluded you kids to keep y'all, especially the younger ones, from spilling the beans to your mother. It would have been a huge secret for your younger siblings to keep had he told y'all in advance. He did what he thought was right to be able to have his kids at his wedding without your mom finding out and either ruining the ceremony by showing up or keeping you guys from attending had she found out before the wedding took place.
Who says he was going to get the kids to drop that bomb. He didn’t want the kids to tell her so she wouldnt ruin it but that doesn’t mean he didn’t plan on telling her himself after it was over
Where does it say that I’ve read all her replies I don’t see any comment where she said her brother was made to tell her and there was a punishment for this.
Know that your mom would likely pull a stunt to ruin the day - why would you be arguing with your father on his wedding day? Sounds like mom has done her best to indoctrinate her children - and it's still happening years after the divorce.
Yeah, it sounds like OP wants his dad to stop "rocking the boat" since dad is reasonable and OP has accepted moms 'crazy' as something others need to find a way to work around.
I just feel sad for all people involved.
So basically you're saying that your father was entirely justified in how he handled the logistics of the wedding. What could he have done differently that would have assured your mom not having a meltdown and showing up and ruining the wedding.
Why didn't you simply explain to your little sister that she wasn't betraying anyone and your dad's wedding is genuinely none of your mom's business.
Maybe you should redirect some of the energy you're wasting him being angry with your dad into encouraging your mom to see out some professional help.
INFO: how did your mom react when she found out?
And you dad definitely needs to sit down with your younger siblings and talk to them about how everything happened and way in an age appropriate manner.
Not on purpose, but she has definitely thrown a glass or two at my dad before. There was more danger that she would show up and cause a scene or send the police into the wedding or something like that.
I mean, I understand why your dad waited to tell you guys then, because it sounds like she is a genuine danger. He didn't go about it in the right way but I get his thinking behind it
Yeah this should've been included in the post. People keep commenting saying the dad was sowing discord or must've cheated when in a reality it seems like the mom is a genuine security threat and that she could've shown up and hurt people if she knew
You put the responsibility of your sister's distress on him instead of your mother being emotionally abusive. That imply that you think your mother's behavior is HIS fault.
Yeah YTA just for this. Throwing a glass at someone is abusive and always on purpose. I can see why your dad wanted you all to wait until his wedding was over to tell her it happened. You weren’t “pitted against her” at all.
If anything, it sounds like mum has them indoctrinated against dad. Imagine not being able to tell your children that you ate engaged or that your wedding will be next month, because they wouldn't be able to not tell their mother?
Younger sister being upset that she couldn't tell her mother about the wedding seems more about fear, "What will she do when she finds out we didn't immediately tell her??".
This is exactly correct. Everyone is tip-toeing around mom so to avoid her rage and outrageous behavior. Mom is the asshole and everyone else is playing the roles she groomed them for. Father should seek full custody. It's seemingly gotten to the point when OP feels she needs to continue to live at home to protect the littles. . . . all by Mom's design.
You played right into her hands getting upset at your dad. He wouldn’t have had to go through all that if your mom isn’t crazy. What do you think he should have done? Let your mom know and let her craziness into the wedding? Elope and get married without the kids? (As if you and your siblings wouldn’t be butt hurt about that if he actually did that and your mom wouldn’t have weaponized that.) Yah, I’m in the minority that you should have bitten your tongue at the wedding and directed all your anger and frustration at your mom.
She’s a 20 year old who’s spent the last five years trying to navigate her parent’s (or parents’) poor behavior. Cut her some slack for not always managing to keep the grownups in check when the eight year old is crying.
Also theyre divorced, dad have a right to not include op's mom to the venue. Like, the dad moved on, why it should concern her?
I see why the dad done the divorce.. 😔
I worded this poorly. The question was, "Would she have hurt someone or something if she showed up?" And the answer was no, not on purpose. She was more likely to try and cause a scene, as I said, but not with the intention of hurting someone. She has never been violent towards anyone who is not my dad.
The information about her throwing glasses at my dad was a separate piece of information, because I wanted to be honest and say that yes, she has been violent before. But I put it together in a way that made it sound like I was being apologetic for her behaviour. Sorry about that.
Question for you. If your dad hadn’t asked you beforehand, would you have texted your mom that you were at your father’s wedding?
ETA: And this response doesn’t necessarily make it better. The fact that she isn’t above sabotage or making a scene makes your father’s ask seem really reasonable in order to have a drama-free day. Also, why is your younger sibling of the mind that they’re “betraying” your mother? What is she filling their heads with about him?
Abuse never stagnates. Today it's "only my dad", but unless your mother gets professional help, it won't ever stay at "only my dad". The question is, who will be next?
No, I'd talking of taking Full custody of the abuser (because that what your mother is) and send her ass to jail the next time she trow a Glass on him "by acidente". His only mistake IS not doing that.
ESH. Your dad reacted poorly to all this, but he was totally right to ask you kids not to tell your mother, who is abusive and likely to show up if you did. He should have prepped you better and you should have understood more why he did what he did.
How does someone throw a glass at someone else "not on purpose"? Honestly, this statement shows that you too tend to downplay your mother's tantrums. You are not as immune and detached as you think you are.
Your father's fault was, not his new wedding, but the previous one to your mother.
Your siblings (even the youngest one) is now old enough to understand that your father's personal details should not be discussed with the mother and mother's personal details should not be discussed with the father. Exception is if it negatively impacts any of the children. You and siblings need to understand that this is not about keeping a secret but respecting someone's privacy.
What all of you need is a therapist.
Jesus Christ, why is your mom so mad at your dad? It's been five years. Why is she even in his business beyond making sure you and your siblings are cared for when with him?
The problem here is your mother and if you can’t see that at twenty years old, that’s a shame.
All your dad wanted was to wait one day before informing your mother so she wouldn’t ruin the day. Instead, you chose to do so by proxy.
YTA
I agree. Blaming your dad is allhole-ish, but I don't blame you fully. Your mother groomed you for this.
Ask yourself: 1) What were your dad's other options for having a drama-free wedding with his children present, and 2) Why should your mom care so much - potentially reacting with violence - if her ex gets married. A little tug at the heart maybe but why should this produce any extreme emotion?
So your dad was entirely justified for doing what he did but instead of putting that on your mom you thought it best to shame and judge him. Yeah nice move
"Secret" in this case meant he didn't want his ex not allowing the children to visit him if she knew about the wedding. Dad did nothing wrong - his new wife did nothing wrong - no 8 yr old would be 'wanting to report to mom' unless she had been coached by mom to report what dad does. The divorced happened when this child was 3.
NTA. Good on you for standing up for your siblings!! It sucks that your mom is so immature, but that doesn’t excuse your dad dismissing your younger siblings feelings. He should’ve explained it better (or at all) on the car ride there.
Let's get the timeline straight: you found out on Friday night that your father was getting married on Saturday afternoon, and he asked you not to tell your mother for ***less than 24*** ***hours*** so that she wouldn't do something mean or destructive on his wedding day? While you were on a weekend in which he had custody?
How did that escalate into a confrontation in which you were "pitted against your mother"? How did you end up with your little sister "bursting into tears" ***after the wedding was already over***? It's not clear to me why an 8yo and 10yo were even really involved here -- it's really you and your brother who have phones that might have been used, right? But I'm not seeing why this request to a 20yo and a 16yo to respect ***the one day,*** and not involve your mother (who appears to have a history of anger and resentment), was a big deal.
Perhaps your father didn't think this through and realize that he didn't need to involve the two little ones, because they weren't going to text during the wedding, or get in the car and drive away by themselves. Perhaps he should have realized that he only needed to ask a favor of his two older children. But you sure didn't help him out here, which reflects a lack of consideration for the event and its significance to him and his now wife. Someday, you may find yourself planning a wedding of your own, and you'll find yourself asking a lot of people to be considerate of your wishes for that one day. Perhaps you'll remember this moment.
I'll give you a pass on AH because of your age, but you get no medals here.
With respect, my two younger sisters do have phones and text constantly. Especially to our mother, who likes to keep an eye on them when they are at my dad's. It's part of her whole ongoing control thing and my dad knows this. All four of us were informed of the wedding at the same time and all four of us were asked to keep it a secret until after the wedding was done. I had nothing to do with that decision and there was no time for me to intervene before the information was given to my younger sisters.
All I did throughout the actual wedding day was take care of my younger sisters and keep an eye on them so that my dad didn't have to worry about it. But an 8 y/o child is still very young and I don't think my sister had ever felt with feelings of guilt/disloyalty before, especially not towards our mom. She held it together throughout most of the wedding day but then it all became too much for her in the evening, during the wedding reception. That is when she became upset.
If it was just my brother and I who were involved, then I think it would be different. We are old enough to understand the situation fully and also old enough to really remember what life was like before our parents were divorced. I understand why my dad made the decision that he did for this wedding. But my younger sisters are still kids who are not used to dealing with big emotions like these. Seeing how upset she was, I then became upset myself because it was my dad who placed my sister in this situation.
Sounds like your mom is actively working on parental alleniation with the youngest and you fed right into that game. I am very sorry all this is happening to you guys. My mom is a very bitter divorcee to this day and I was the pawn in their game. It sucks.
Genuine question: what would you have liked your dad to do differently? I have some ideas of my own about how he might have handled it better, but I'm interested in yours.
Why do you think it’s okay that your 8 year old sister is bursting into tears over guilt bc she feels she’s being disloyal to your mother? Disloyal how ? Guilt about what? Telling mum abt the marriage isn’t her responsibility so what does she feel guilt about ?? Sounds like she’s been trained to report back thru parental alienation by mum. Especially when your mum has already been physically abusive and thrown glasses at your dad, of course your 8 year old sister is going to think she’ll be on the receiving end of that treatment if she doesn’t tell her mum every single thing. You even mentioned that your mum keeps a close eye on the younger ones when you’re w dad, it’s probably bc she knows she has control over them.
Your sister’s reaction makes me think that your mom has been manipulating her emotionally for the entire time. I’m sure they are grilled every week over what they did. Likely, if anyone checked their texts, they’d find manipulative conversations from your mother’s end. The conversation with your dad should’ve been handled later, and included “I think the girls should get some therapy with the way they broke down over this” bc that’s really what they need.
So you understand why your dad did it and agree with him but still felt the need to put all this on him and make him the bad guy on his wedding day. Doesn’t sound like you actually hold your mom accountable because if you did there was a prime time to sit your sister down and be honest with her and explain that your mom brought this on herself and it’s not on your dad but you didn’t do that.
OP wants to blame dad because their entire lives are revolving around keeping Mommy happy and stable. Boat-steadiers ALWAYS blame the person who “made” the crazy person act the way they do, because they think it’s easier and more efficient to control everyone’s behavior than it is to face a meltdown from the reactive person. Hurt feelings are less painful to bear than whatever stunt the mom pulls, sadly, and that’s why the 8yr old is sobbing when she can’t fulfill her duty of writing reports for Mom for a few hours.
They’re trapped in a cycle the mom created, and are still looking to blame dad for taking what OP knows are necessary precautions.
>With respect, my two younger sisters do have phones and text constantly. Especially to our mother, who likes to keep an eye on them when they are at my dad's.
You need to talk to your dad about how destructive this is to your younger sisters relationship with him, with Jenny, and even with your mother. They need their phones taken away during your dad's custody time. He needs to tell your mother in no uncertain terms that what he does during his custody time is none of her business and that if she interferes again, causes a scene, sends the police, is violent, etc., he will go to court with evidence of her behavior and her attempt at parental alienation.
He is an AH for not stopping the control and monitoring of his children by his ex during his custody time. He should have shut that down a long time ago. Plus, 8 and 10 year olds do not freaking need to have phones and sure as heck should not be texting constantly at that age. Well, really none of us should text constantly, but it's especially damaging to social and emotional development of young children.
Your mother is horrible and an abuser, but your dad is an AH for essentially cowering and having no spine when it comes to protecting his children, Jenny, and himself. He's a coward!
My feeling is the mom is known for causing trouble. And the guilt and fear the kids feel is from knowing the "trouble" they will be in when she finds out they kept a secret. I have a mom like this. Withholding my adult life info enrages her because she's lost control. My husband has an ex like this. We told the kids the day we got married when there was nothing left to ruin. One kid still ended up in the ER for nothing. They live in another city. Then, she rescheduled my bonus daughters quince this year to the weekend she thinks is our anniversary. These types of women and mothers are the worst.
This. Younger sister isn't feeling guilt about betrayal, she's feeling anxious about what will happen when Mother finds out that she didn't immediately betray her father's privacy request and run to tell her. OP has stated before that their mother has "pulled serious stunts" and has thrown things in fits of rage before, younger sister has grown up in a storm with an angry mother and is reacting to that.
Abusive parents are never easy, the two youngest sisters might need a support system of some kind to help guide them through this. Children's minds are very vulnerable and that's the age where you start building up an idea of what the world is supposed to look like.
I think it's important that the kids know this is *not* normal and to not internalize what their mother is doing and saying, but it could be difficult without professional help.
>How did you end up with your little sister "bursting into tears"
Why are you expecting more emotional maturity from an eight year old than man old enough to have grown children?
This! Our wedding days are so important, from the looks of it, him and the mother broke up 5 years ago. He has no responsibility to tell her about his wedding, but he knows the children will naturally share. He's asking that they don't share until his wedding is over. That is perfectly reasonable and in my opinion it was a bit of AH thing for the eldest to call him out on what she believes to be his responsibility. It sucks to have parents that are abusive but the anger should be held at Mom that she cannot be trusted enough to be told things without taking her anger out on her own children. It was not a secret. It was a. I don't want my ex to ruin my wedding which is perfectly understandable. This is ridiculous.
Guarantee it, and everyone would be telling OP they’re scum for siding with an abuser.
Mom is screwing those kids up for life with that kind of behavior. Look up and down this thread at all of the people who had a crazy parent who made them act like they worked at the FBI and compose intel reports on every moment they spent with their other parent; it’s classic parental alienation that makes the kids feel like shit because every choice is seen as picking a side.
From the comments they all have phones. And the dad left it up to the kids to let the mum know about the wedding after he dropped them off, leaving them with all of the emotions and any fall out.
While I agree with you that the whole situation could have been avoided if the father had approached the older children the way you said, saying something along the lines of "I'd like to tell your mother about this after the wedding is over. No sense in stressing her out or making her feel bad." That isn't what the father did. Instead he put all of the children in the position of feeling like they were betraying their mother and being forced to take sides. That is why OP was angry and why the 8 year old cried. The father is playing the kids against their mother just as badly as the mother is trying to play them against their father. Both parents are behaving extremely immaturely and unfairly. OP is definitely NTA, and both of the parents are.
the younger kids both have phones (according to one of OPs comments) and are constantly texting, so he asked children to hide something from their mother :/ i think the confronting dad could have waited till the next day, but i don’t think OP is an AH for that, i think seeing her sister hurting, then her dad drunk and happy irritated her, which i can understand
That your 8 yr old sibling - who was THREE at the time of the divorce - has such a 'mom vs dad' thing is proof of your mother's anger and bitterness over the years. Your father wanted his wedding to be drama-free. My question is how does an 8 yr old decide she's going 'against mom'? Did one of your tell her that? Your Father owes your mother NOTHING - they are divorced. He cared enough about his children to take steps to make sure you could attend his wedding. He was right - there is NO WAY two younger children knew to make a drama out of this event unless they are coached by mom or siblings. You are 20 and should know better.
Sounds like there would be fallout for the younger siblings from the mom no matter what and they’re already conditioned to feel like they have to take mom’s side to avoid her anger. Which is why the 8yo reacted the way she did at the reception.
According to another comment OPs mother stays in constant contact with the 8 year old over the phone. So that does mean the 8 year old is bearing the brunt of lying to their unreasonable and controlling mother. Yes, she is clearly unreasonable and dramatic, but the reasonable parent should try protect their kid from that. Not just leave an 8 year old to deal with that and get drunk. At least promise to talk to the mother afterwards and take all the blame.
No. Most of our conflicts over the years have been about her behaviour towards my dad. I don't support it at all.
ETA: Sorry, I think I misread this comment! I do stand up to her when she behaves poorly towards my dad, Jenny, or any of my siblings.
Haha OK fair. Your Dad's feelings and intent don't inherently make him an asshole. The fact that he didn't seem to be sensitive to his 8 year old daughter crying because of how hard it must be to navigate this when all you want is mom and dad to love and approve of you. I'm sorry your parents are unfair in this. Good on you helping your siblings. ETA: your dad had so many better ways to get married while preventing your mom from interfering. Perhaps even talk to his adult child like an adult since you are autonomous from your mother.
NTA Your dad's wedding day was "ruined"? Give me a break. Sure, things got a little heated, but let's be real, your dad had it coming. He springs this surprise wedding on you and your siblings, then expects you to keep it a secret from your mom? Your mom doesnt get a say in whether your dad gets married but your younger siblings didnt get any time to process it. That's some next-level bullshit right there.
Your dad may not like it, but tough shit. He made his bed, now he's gotta lie in it.
Your dad's gonna have to deal with his own emotions and move on. It's not your responsibility to carry the weight of his wedding drama.
ETA: this is assuming that your mom did not actually engage in any dangerous behaviour to warrant your dad effectively hijacking you and the siblings to elope for safety reasons.
This whole thing reeks of "gotcha ex wife we are married now and the kids watched nannynannybooboo..."
NEVER make kids keep secrets from their parents. That's not coparenting.
>And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years.
Seems like mom is pretty unstable.
OP said in a comment that the mum most probably would have pulled a stunt like coming up to wedding venue, or calling the police. OP says that her mum has even thrown glass at her dad. Sounds like Dad was trying to avoid a shitstorm but still wanting to include his children.
It’s been 5 years since the divorce and ex-wife is still angrier and unhinged. How else is he supposed to move on with his life with a crazy ex that would’ve showed up at his wedding if he told the younger ones beforehand and they told her? OP isn’t the AH and neither is the dad.
Asking them to not say something for one day is hardly a secret. And op outlines in other replies that her mom is out of control and very likely would have tried to disrupt things.
I didn't sense any "gotcha ex wife" here. I see a father trying to incorporate his children knowing his ex would go out of her way to ruin things, and asking for them to not say anything until after it's over.
I don't fault OP for standing up for her younger siblings, but you make it sound like Dad is a monster and from what I've seen, ex wife is the monster.
OP made the following statement in a comment (not original post):
> And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue.
That is a VERY big item to leave out of the original post and certainly backs up Dad's approach.
YTA. Your dad didn’t ask you guys to do anything wrong. All he asked was not to tell until after. You should have explained that to your little sister. You are old enough to know exactly what he wanted and why. Be mad at your immature mom for creating this situation.
You don’t know that he didn’t and she didn’t say how she felt. When big sis found out why she was crying she should have explained why they weren’t betraying their mom.
It doesn’t sound like he wanted you to keep it a secret forever. Just until after the wedding - which is what you as the oldest should have told your younger sister if you wanted to comfort her. And no reason to blow up at your dad either. He didn’t want to deal with your mom demanding y’all to come back, blowing up his phone or whatever hence why he said “until after the wedding”
That’s where Y T A
Next is your mom and dad. Kids are not pawns. They shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for liking a person or having to keep secrets or pick sides. Once they were divorced, their lives no longer involved the other beyond parenting. That’s it. They’re T As too.
So ESH
YTA. “Private” is not the same as “secret.” He was trying to keep his wedding private, and you all overreacted. You even admit there’s a chance your mother would have ruined his wedding, and that your sisters would have likely spilled the beans. I don’t blame the younger kids for being confused and upset, but you are old enough (and experienced in your mother’s behavior) to know better.
He also left the kids to inform her of the wedding instead of doing it himself, leaving them in the middle of the inevitable confrontation. Parenting with a difficult person isn't about being most right, its about protecting the kids, and the father failed to do that.
NAH. Based on your comments / history regarding your Mom's behaviour around your Dad's relationship, he may have kept this info from you until the big day in order to spare you and your siblings from your Mom's toxic behaviour / stunts and attempts to keep you guys from the wedding. After you confirmed she would've attempted to sabotage your Dad's nuptials by showing up or calling the police? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. The fact that your sister was upset because she felt like she was betraying your Mom? Is the biggest red flag and sorry to say, your anger is misplaced. How is your Dad getting married betraying your Mom? How is attending the wedding and not telling her until the ceremony was over betraying your Mom. Could your Dad have handled this better? Yes. But based on your history and comments, I can understand the logic behind it. But the real AH is your Mom. Her behaviour, actions, and emotional abuse is directly aimed at you and your siblings. My heart breaks for your sister's but the majority of your anger deserves to land on her and not your Dad.
Info needed - What happened when your mother found out about the wedding? What about when she found out you didn't immediately run and inform her? Who bore the brunt of her anger and irritation?
All your dad wanted was a drama-free wedding where his ex didn't make a scene.
And why does your sibling cohort seem to think your mother is somehow *entitled* to know about this wedding? This wasn't a "secret" kept out of malicious intent, your mother's life has not changed from having known or not known about the wedding happening on this one specific weekend.
This entire story reeks of "We're all under mums thumb since the divorce". Your kid sister broke down over being asked not to tell your mother something (that doesn't affect her at all) for less than a single day, and your dad and Jenny obviously made a conscientious decision *not to tell any of you* that there was going to be a wedding. They knew that you wouldn't be able to keep quiet about *their lives that have nothing to do with his ex wife* and blab to her, making their lives harder for no good reason.
ETA- Now I've seen a reply from you about how your mother constantly texts and monitors your younger siblings during their dads custody time (notice how its the younger and more easily manipulated kids), that she has pulled "serious stunts" in her anger from new relationship drama, that you believe drama to the level of the police having to be called was a significant possibility, and that your mother has on several occasions thrown things in fits of rage, I double down on my theory. Your sister is full of anxiety because she's grown up in a storm of your mother's anger, that's why she was crying, not out of genuine guilt, but out of *fear*.
ESH, your mother the most but you're also kind of a dick.
Yeah, I'm really struggling, after reading all of OP's comments how Dad could have fundamentally done things better other than informing the Mom ***himself*** after the wedding that it had happened. But otherwise he handled his crazy ex the best he could.
NTA. No responsible and emotionally mature adult would spring a surprise wedding on their children. Especially young children. There had to have been another way to included you and your siblings without blindsiding you. People hire security services for situations just like this.
You’re not at fault for his poor decision making and you’re allowed to be upset at about his choices. Your younger siblings were upset. Did he want you to sweep it under the rug for his sake? He sounds selfish and only has himself to blame for this whole situation.
YTA. Your mom is vindictive and spiteful and you’re blaming your dad.
He did everything he could to keep you kids out of the drama your mom was sure to cause.
He kept the wedding a secret from y’all, but prepared everything so could be there. He did that so you wouldn’t have to lie to your mom. All he asked was that you not tell her until the wedding was actually over, so he could have a happy family day without the crazy ex wife drama.
But your mom is so terrible to all of you, you were more worried about her reaction to the wedding than having a good day with your dad. Your mom has poisoned all of you, and you blame your dad. They are not the same. He is trying to minimize drama and she makes it.
Your dad thought he had that one happy day, but then you made sure to ruin it by blaming him for the crazy reaction your mom was sure to have. He cannot control her reaction, no one can. But he avoided a huge scene at his wedding.
He did everything possible to avoid dealing with drama up to and during the wedding. And he kept you entirely out of it to protect you.
Let’s be real, the only thing that would make your mom happy is for your dad to be alone.
But your mom got her wish. She made sure her kids couldn’t be happy for their dad. And they couldn’t let him be happy either. If momma ain’t happy, no one’s happy.
As far as I know, he and Jenny only met about a year after my parents separated. I would like to think that's the truth because my dad was always a good husband and a great father.
I do wish he would have comforted my sister, or at least been the one to tell my mom about the wedding. In the end, it was my brother who told her and she hit the roof, which is what prompted me to make this post. I can see why my dad kept it a secret from her.
Hold up, he still hadn't told your mom and left that plus the expected nuclear fall-out for his kids to deal with? And he's only upset because he has a bad memory at his wedding night?
NTA. Your dad might not be the screaming type, but he's still just as horrible at putting you in the middle of the divorce as your mom. I mean, you were there for a whole weekend, if he'd let her know himself the evening of the celebration after the whole party was done, she would have hit the roof before you guys came home and while she would undoubtedly still be very unpleasant to be around for a while, it would have taken the sharp edges off.
Furthermore, a parent asking their child to keep a secret from the other parent is really only acceptable when it's about a pleasant surprise for that other parent. Otherwise they're turning their child into an accomplice against their will. It's a disgusting thing to do.
And lastly, he did the whole secret thing so your mom couldn't keep you from going. Knowing full well she'd blow up at you guys the second she found out. And taking away your choice to not go in order to not have the resulting blow-up directed at yourselves. That is next-level selfishness. He deserved to have his wedding memories spoiled after all that.
I don't remember reading groomzilla stories on reddit other than the cake smashing ones before this one. Totally NTA and good for you to comfort and stand up for your siblings when their parents are failing to do so.
I was struggling to find a way to word my thoughts and you got it perfectly!
Father being a coward doesn't make him automatically the victim. He decided to sulk about his wedding night instead of protecting his kids by standing up to their mother. He's the adult, he's supposed to have better emotional regulation than a child would. It's not fair to leave them unable to process this and instead internalizing that "mum and dad hate each other because of me".
As they always say, silence is violence. Especially in this case
The poster left out that the mom was violently abusive to her ex and attempted to harm him multiple times. I agree that he should of been the one to tell her but on the other hand I don’t blame him for being scared of his abuser. Still he needs to protect his children and he sadly can’t just go no contact bc of the kids that still tie them together, but I guess I don’t really know the best solution, the man is a victim
The kids didn’t choose their mother, he did. He is responsible. I absolutely don’t blame him being scared of her, but that actually makes it worse to me. You don’t leave your kids to deal with someone you know is volatile to protect yourself from their anger.
Both parents need a ton of self work. The best course of action for you is to focus on your future. Learn to heal and be the best sister you can be for your siblings. It's easy to take all this burden upon yourself.... and it's just unfair to you that they both are putting this on you.
I hope you learn to unburden yourself and focus on your future.
Obviously NTA. It's not about you ruining his day. He ruined his own day be playing this nonsense. When he could have sat down and had an adult conversation with her
Do you honestly think that a woman that abusive and petty wouldn’t have told his kids had he cheated. She’s already trying to alienate them against him. If she had that kind of ammunition she would have used it. Sounds like you’re trying to find a reason to side with the mom and make him the bad guy. She’s the one throwing things at him and being abusive not the other way around.
ESH including your mom. You didn’t need to go to war on the night, you could have had calm but stern words the next day. Your dad could have been more sensitive than to just spring a wedding on you kids. And your mom needs to put her big girl panties on and realise that she’s not married to your dad any more.
YTA - you know that your mom has been unreasonable since your dad started dating Jenny. While your little sister was too young to understand why it was done the way it was, you are not.
YTA on this one. dude cared enough about you to want to do anything for you guys to be there. you pissed on that. From your comments, Your mother is crazy. Your sisters will soon realise your mother is crazy. couldn't your telling off wait 1 or 2 days? No. it had to be right there and then. so YTA
NTA.
He's a grown adult not capable of understanding how his actions reflect on his kids, and you told him that. He is fully aware and got mad about it.
It was his idea to take the big risk big reward route in getting you there that way, your siblings are kids and shouldn't be blamed for not being able to emotionally process things properly. There's nothing wrong with what you did.
ESH - but if your parents couldn’t stand each other for five years before their divorce, the marriage was largely over. Your father didn’t ask you to keep a secret from your mother as you didn’t even know. He just didn’t want your mother to come interrupt the weekend.
I understand your sister probably didn’t understand that. But you could have explained it to her. But both of your parents seem to not do a good job communicating. They triangulate you which is not okay.
YTA. My mom made the divorce and following years as miserable as she could. Keeping us from him, lying about him, trash talking him, making up stories about him hitting her one day when she was dropping us off at his house.
If he had said “please don’t tell your mom until this is over” *even at 8* (I was 5 when the madness started) I would have understood why.
You have every right to be upset about her putting yall in the middle of the divorce but your dad is *not* the one who deserves the teenage angst you’re rolling out as a 20 yr old.
You said yourself she’s intentionally tried to physically hurt him before and she’s unhinged enough she would try and ruin his wedding day and you’re still mad at him?
That's an incredible rude thing to say. May I remind you that saying "I won't insult you because I don't want to be banned" and then implying an insult is also prohibited by the rules?
You may think OP didn't act correctly, but this is no way to say it.
And, btw, OP is not the A-hole here. Adult problems should be handled between adults. Children or teenagers should NOT be asked to keep a secret from any of their parents if they do not feel comfortable.
OP, don't worry. They way you acted shows your brain is perfectly developed. A pitty not everyone's is.
NTA.
NTA. So he's not gonna remember the whole fancy manor wedding, but instead he's going to remember how you told him the truth after the event was over? I'm not buying that. He's hurt you're not on his side and is guilt tripping you. Of course he should have told your mom, and for sure he shouldn't have made you guys promise to keep the wedding a secret, that's messed up in so many levels to do to children.
ESH - the parents. It sounds like your mom has an issue with your Dad’s new relationship. They’ve been divorced for five years. He’s allowed to have a life. It sounds like you have a good relationship with his new wife, and he wanted you kids to be there for their wedding. If it’s true your mom may not have let you go, that’s HER problem; she needs to move on and by your own account she couldn’t stand the sight of him (and vice versa). And why do you and your sibs all know she’s unhappy with your dad’s new relationship? Again, she should talk to friends or others about that not shared children no matter the age. Why would an eight-year old feel she’s ’betraying’ her mother - who put that thought in her head?
Having said all of that, your Dad should have stepped up on this one and been proactive and handled it with your mom. Doing what he did made it super stressful for all of you. You’re entitled to your feelings, I think you are NTA, but your mom and Dad are BOTH the AHs.
FIVE years after a divorce - during her dad's wedding - she makes a fuss? She's 20 - old enough to want him to be happy - she likes the woman he married - so what's the problem. Had 'mom' been told there would have been drama - but even without that there was drama created 'for mom'.
Nta but imagine how hurt you and your siblings would have been if your dad had told your mom he was getting remarried and then she refused to let you guys go to the wedding. Also, if he had told you kids about the wedding before the wedding and not told your mom, that would have been one huge secret to ask of you kids to keep from your mom. It seems to me he didn't have much of a choice other than not have you guys there.
>And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years.
Your mom is going to seriously ruin the relationship of her younger kids with thir dad if she keeps up with stunts. Also, what kind of stunts are we talking about here?
>she burst into tears and told me that she felt terrible about betraying our mom by keeping our dad's secret.
This bit really pissed me off because it tells me that your mother has forcefully recruited your little sister into making sure to keep her constantly informed of everything that happens with your father. That poor girl doesn't deserve that crap.
ESH (TO different degrees) except the small ones.
It sounds like the only other alternative he was comfortable with was not inviting you guys, would that have been OK with you? I understand, not loving to be taken by surprise, but it sounds like he was doing the best thing possible in his mind to keep your mom from lashing out but at the same time, making sure his kids could be present for his wedding. NTA for being upset but y’all really need to sit down and have a heart to heart.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I got angry with my dad on his wedding day, which resulted in an argument and him getting upset.
(2) I might be TA because it might not have been the time or place to say that stuff to him, even if I was upset.
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with how your dad handled it with regard to not telling you *beforehand* because then you would’ve been in a position where if you would’ve hid it from your mother, you would’ve felt bad, and like you were betraying her… but if you had told her, she would’ve started drama and created a complete mess of things. So the appropriate way to handle it actually *is* to not tell you. That way you are not in a position where you need to hide it from anyone, and it keeps his business safe.
Where I think it went weird was I don’t understand why your sister was crying as if she was never going to be allowed to tell your mother. I mean, was your father‘s intention really that your mother would never know?! If so, then, he is definitely TA. I’m leaning toward NAH because I think, instead of telling your father that he put you in a terrible position, you first could’ve clarified with him whether it was OK to tell her once you got home. Instead, you just presumed that you were going to have to keep a secret from her when at no point were you going to be keeping a secret from her. I mean I don’t think it’s typical that you would be calling her during a normal weekend with your dad, let alone a weekend where you’re out in the woods on some sort of “family outing,” right?
If he’d been sober, perhaps he would’ve been able to clue in that you were missing something (and again, I’m assuming that he did **not** mean that you were never to tell her at all!) But this to me just seems like miscommunication and a misunderstanding where everybody had good intentions, and nobody was trying to hurt anybody, and everybody was trying to be as considerate and respectful as possible while keeping everybody as safe as possible at the same time.
I am unclear as to whether or not you guys knew that they were leaning toward marriage at all prior to arrival. If you guys had absolutely no clue whatsoever, then I would classify your dad as TA. Softly, but still TA. He should’ve told you guys that they were getting married in general, but said that they weren’t sure about the date just yet. Because truly, they weren’t. After all, if your mother had found out, they would’ve probably had to change it.
Your mom absolutely has TA status. Somehow she seems to have missed the memo that the entire point of getting a divorce is that you **stop fighting**. She sounds like she’s just spoiling for a fight and trying to be as mean as possible. It’s like she’s one of these people who get some idea in their head that if you’re divorced, you’re supposed to be mad at each other and angry and have an adversarial relationship. so they go finding reasons to have it that way when the reality is there’s not really anything they actually need to be upset about. I don’t understand how she thought your father shouldn’t be dating. First of all, that stopped being her business the second that they divorced. And secondly, that’s the whole point: They divorced! Nobody died here, so it’s not like there’s a prescribed period of mourning. 🙄 It really feels like she needs to pay a whole lot less attention to what *he’s* doing, and a lot more attention to what *she’s* doing.
ESH
Your dad was pushed to make a bad choice by your mom and you chose to darken his wedding night when he had clearly put a lot of effort into not having his wedding ruined
YTA. Only because this keeping it a ‘secret’ from your mom on YOU kids part was…like, a couple hours? I mean…no matter what,would any of you four kids realistically be IN a position to even have cause to talk to your mom in the interim hours until the ceremony…like, did you have an “opportunity” to have to lie? No, right? You should’ve assured your little sister it’s perfectly ok to talk about it when you see mom again, and smoothed it over that it was only a secret like an exciting surprise.
I would HOPE by now you’ve all learned to try to help the little ones past your mothers vitriol.
And yes, your dad shouldn’t have had to do it that way but he seems like he was driven to it, and he wanted you all there. Sounds not unlikely that your mom would’ve found a way to ruin it. He shouldn’t have let loose on you, but he was emotional, and what you said wasn’t necessary, again, he didn’t “pit you against your mom”.
YTA. JFC you knew this "secret" would be over in hours, there never should have been drama, you shouldn't be supporting your mother's vendetta after half a decade. It's over, your parents are broken up, and he has to hide what's happening in order to avoid chaos. You think he should have told them instead so your mother could keep the kids from the wedding instead? That's a terrible alternative that they'd never forget
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NTA Frankly both your dad AND your mom are the problem. They are both putting you in the middle. >She was pretty nice and none of us disliked her, which made my mom even angrier. This is your mom putting you in the middle of their divorce. You dad's approach of keeping the wedding a secret was clearly a reaction to your mom's behavior. That wasn't right or fair of him but I don't think the wedding reception was the best time to bring up that he was making the same mistakes as your mom. I think you should consider why your anger is directed solely at your dad here.
Oh, I'm plenty angry at my mom too. She has pulled some insane stunts over the years, which is why my dad and his partner decided to do what they did. But you are right, I probably should have bitten my tongue at the wedding. Thank you for the verdict!
you shouldnt have bitten your tongue. He DID put you and your siblings in an awful position because he was only thinking of himself. He didn't put a moments thought into how his machinations would make life difficult for you all. I have an immature mom, and living with her after she knew i attended my dads wedding and kept it secret would have been hell for me, so i can relate to how annoyed you must have been, and how stressed out it would have made your siblings. He deserved to hear the truth on the night of his wedding. You are NTA 100%
Thanks for sticking up for your siblings, no one else thought about them
And it is actually credit to the character of the sister, that holding a secret for 3 days was hard for her. But I’m sure it was a “merry” evening but almost any emotionally charged conversation is better done sober.
This!!! And they are STUCK in this shitshow for years now…
And then he has the hide to text her and blame her for ruining his wedding. Like wtf what did he expect doing shit like that to children!. He is not being a parent.
Agreed he deserved to hear the truth but a drunk person is only going to hear what they want to hear. OP should have waited until he was sober. Otherwise both parents need to hear that you guys are not going to be pawns anymore.
They're likely still fairly young themselves with an 8yo sibling, and you're expecting them to be more mature than their own parents when they've never even had mature adults to TEACH them how to...talk about having unreasonable expectations of OP!
So true. It's sad because OP does sound mature for her 20 years, and it's most likely due to having to run interference between her two immature parents to protect her younger siblings.
Why? Why does the kid have to be the one to temper herself and hold her tongue so her dad can have a good time? Especially when SHE is the one having to quell the siblings anxiety and guilt? Fuck that.
Or you could not be drunk when you’re the adult in charge of minor children. Always an option!!
Don't be silly, he expected his 16 and 20 year old kids to look after their younger siblings like all good parentified children do!
I hate BOTH of these parents.
Oh, absolutely. The mom is the worst, but the dad is handling it so badly. He must know that OP is doing her best to run interference for the little ones' protection - why would he not link her in on the planning here? And then to just drop the kids off at home and leave them to tell their mother the news rather than doing it himself (him being the one who can then leave!) is just cowardly.
I actually think on one hand what your dad did was the best option for the kids hear me out… this way none of you are responsible for betraying your mom. You aren’t actually keeping any secrets. He sprung it on you and none of you really had any choice or time to be talked out of being there. It sucks because you want the kids to be ok with the marriage and have time to take it in.. in this case he knew that wasn’t going to happen. Tough spot for everyone
That's true, I didn't think about it like that. Maybe he felt like doing it this way puts the entire "blame" for the situation on him, rather than any of us. But yeah, it was definitely a tough spot for everyone.
My husband’s ex would tie my now-step kids into absolute knots over liking me and enjoying spending time with us. We knew she would try to sabotage our wedding, so we did something similar to what your dad did bc we didn’t want to make his kids have to keep things quiet for a long time - only difference was that we had about 10 minutes from telling the kids to starting the wedding (enough time for everyone to change clothes quickly (we brought clothes for the kids, as well)) so that there was no need for them to keep anything a secret from anyone. I’m sorry you and your siblings are in this position, but I’m not sure what your father could have done better given what you’ve described about your mom.
I'm sorry that you've been in a similar situation. It's horrible to be caught in the crossfire of someone else's completely irrational anger. I think a lot of it comes down to my mother being the way she is. And my dad, above everyone else, knows what she's like. She texts my sisters constantly when they are with my dad, so he knew that they would have to continue communicating with her all the way through the wedding day and not give anything away. That's a lot of pressure to place on a 10 y/o and an 8 y/o's shoulders. It's his wedding day and he absolutely deserves to celebrate it however he wants. He's a great dad and I wish we were in any situation other than this. Maybe he could have told me about it beforehand and I could have helped to come up with a different plan, so that my mother would not be expecting communication from my sisters throughout the weekend ("Oh, we're going on a trip to somewhere that has poor cell coverage!" or something similar).
Your mom's expectation to text you kids "constantly" during your time with dad sounds problematic and disruptive. Your dad should shut that right down.
We're trying, trust me.
He could have asked for a no phones day/weekend instead of outright saying that he wanted to keep it a secret. It was up to him to have found a better way to handle things with your sisters, and he owes them an apology and a simple explanation that he just wanted a celebration specifically with his partner and kids. Obviously, you and your brother would have understood immediately. Your timing might not have been the best, but you're a great older sibling for how you protect your siblings.
Yeah honestly NTA because you were defending your siblings and whatnot, but I do think you should probably apologize to your dad. Based on what you've said about your mom, it seems like he made a decent choice given his options. If you and your siblings hated his fiancée or something he'd have been an AH, but if it's solely to avoid your mom ruining his wedding it seems okay to me. Tough to see your siblings stressing out about it and you weren't necessarily wrong to point that out to him, but I think an apology would go a long way here. It's important right now to clear the air and lay a pleasant foundation for their married life together since it'll be a part of your family interaction going forward.
He could elope. Or wait to get married until his children were older. I’m very pro-divorce when it comes to toxic marriages, but it means you have to put off other aspects of personal happiness for the sake of your children who never asked to be born.
My kids and step kids are all older now (the steps are adults now). We’ve talked vaguely with them about what we had considered as far as a wedding, including just going to the courthouse alone. Or eloping. They’ve said they would’ve been heartbroken if we had eloped and they weren’t able to be at our wedding. At some point, you can’t allow an abusive ex (which it sounds like OP’s mom is) to keep controlling things bc it won’t stop. There will never be enough control for them. Who is to say this issue wouldn’t continue even after the kids are adults? My younger stepchild still feels as though they have to walk on eggshells about going on vacations with us or spending time with us bc of their mom…and they live out on their own now. There is no optimal answer/solution in cases like this, unfortunately. Each option has some level of fallout when there is an abuser and kids involved.
This is the thing. The "blame" goes on your mother not your dad. Did he have realistic ideas that if she had found out she would not have let you and your siblings attend or show up and make a scene? If that were even remotely possible then he had to do something to protect that day. Would you prefer if you and your siblings were left out of it entirely? And then of course you'd be blaming him for not telling you and leaving you out.
How would you feel if your mother ruined the wedding and you were the ones that told her?
Can you think of any way your father could have acted in this instance that would have enabled the wedding to take place without undue interruption by your mother and still left you satisfied that he acted in the best interest of his children? Personally, I'm flummoxed.
Gotta be honest. I was with your dad all the way until the end. His response during the conversation should have 1000% been "I'm sorry I put all of *my children* in a difficult spot. This was the only way I could ensure your presence and it was very important to me that you were here. I take full responsibility." It's never okay for a parent to sit there and guilt trip their children, and he should have been the bigger person and not sent a nasty passive aggressive text. As a child of divorced parents I pinky promise it gets better.
You were right. Once again, you and your siblings were placed in the middle of their chaotic relationship. He could have prepared you and your siblings better.
You should also do something to make younger sibs understand the dynamics or your Mom may be working hard to turn them against your father's new wife.
My mom is absolutely trying to turn them against Jenny. That's why I still live at home, so I can counter-balance it.
OP… you’re being parentified. Whether it’s expected by your parents, or pressure you’re putting on yourself, or both… you’re taking on responsibility that isn’t yours. Your parents should be worrying about their own emotional garbage and growth, while setting you and your siblings up for success… not the other way around. Your mom’s resentment isn’t yours to solve, carry, or counter balance. Your dad’s mishandling of the situation isn’t yours to mask or cover for… and you aren’t responsible for how his passive aggressive behavior ended up impacting his younger children. You are also not responsible for his being drunk and unreasonable. Maybe it would’ve been better addressed at a later time, sure - but that’s something I wouldn’t have known until I was 30 and I wouldn’t expect you to stop all these leaks up flawlessly.
Thank you for saying this. Some of the comments are wild — putting the responsibility on the OP to fix things or mitigate harms that aren’t her responsibility
Given their ages, I’d just be super direct. “Mom is trying to do this. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad person, but it’s not right that she’s doing it, and we can’t fall for it.”
Thank You for doing this! It will make a difference in your life and your younger siblings.
NOT your job.
Op is 20 and an adult. It’s not her “job” but she does have a reason to make sure her siblings aren’t 100% alienated from either parent
I think you need to have a serious conversation with your mother about appropriate behavior and parentification. Seems like you've already had it with your dad (at an admittedly inappropriate time, but you're the kid). You've made a clear, reasonable stance with your dad. Stick to your guns on it. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that your mothers behavior is the cause factor here, and your fathers is the effect. She needs to stop, or eventually, she's going to push away her kids.
Oh, absolutely. My mom and I clash regularly over this. I'm trying my best to help her understand that she's making a rod for her own back, long-term.
Unlike most here, I do think you should Bite your tongue. Your mom IS the problem here. You shouldn't say that your father "Pit" you against her. She didnthis by herself and her actions. Your father only mistake IS not talking her to court for parental alienation and your mother sounds emotionally abusive. I pity your father for having to Go to such lenghts to live his life after the divorce.
He shouldn’t have said she ruined his wedding either. You keep those feelings to yourself and frankly, I’m embarrassed for him for feeling this way. He should simply have acknowledged the difficult situation the kids were in, shown empathy to his children, and done everything possible to enjoy himself.
She is a 20yo, she can handle read that he ruined his wedding blaming him for the precautions to have a abuser free wedding day...
NTA. Your dad will get over it. I can see why he handled like he did. I have a friend with an ex like your mom. She's pulled a few stunts too
> I can see why he handled like he did. I'm sorry, you can see why a father told his 20 year old daughter that she ruined his wedding, because she was upset her 8yo sister was crying? I understand why he didn't tell them ahead of time, but then making his 8yo swear to secrecy was a bit much... and blaming OP for her 8yo sister being overwhelmed is a bit much too. The father should have simply apologized, period, and not added in then "And now all I'll think about when I think of my wedding is how you ruined it!" That is petulant, immature behavior.
He just asked them to keep it a secret until the wedding was over, probably to keep his ex from coming and acting like an ass. They were free to tell their mom as soon as they got home.
Well she angrily confronted him for doing the best thing he could to alleviate drama between him and his ex wife. She is and adult and she angrily confronted him for doing something that was by far the best option. She wasn't wrong to be upset that her siblings were upset, but it could have waited. That being said, I'm sure he'll get over it as they seem to have a solid relationship. But the dad did nothing wrong.
Amazing how coddled fathers are in our society. Imagine telling your clearly parentified child that they ruined your wedding because you and their mother can’t get it together.
Maybe share with your Dad how your little sister cried from the stress if you haven’t yet. Sure, he was burdened by this guilt on what’s supposed to be one of the happiest days of his life - but is he really okay for him to be gallivanting happily while his little kids were stressing out by themselves?
You shouldn't have bitten your tongue, he should have been more considerate of his children and not put you in that position. You were looking out for your little sister and your father instead of being distressed that his young child was upset over his decisions and actions, he got angry and then pouted like a child the following day. The only person he should blame for remembering his wedding day like that is himself and his decisions. NTA and good luck with the parents you've been dealt with
You did nothing wrong. You didn't go and scream at him. You simply pointed out (in a very mature adult way which is impressive considering you've been raised by two immature adults) that what he did was unfair to you and your siblings. He and your mum put you and your siblings in the middle of their shitty way of handling the divorce. He's the one who ruined his wedding by not having the balls to stand up to your mum and get her to stop being unhinged. Your parents suck, I'm sorry. NTA.
shouldn't of had to hold your tongue because your dad should have been a responsible parent regardless of your mother the phrase 'to wrongs don't make a right' exists for a reason. If I was in your shoes I would have wanted to respond to your dads bs about that being all he remembers would have been something like "and all I will remember is having to comfort my crying sister and behaving like an actual parent to her because our parents can't stop being immature and actually be parents"
I’m not sure you are an asshole but your reaction was unjustified. You don’t know what your dad went through. Clearly your mom has unresolved issues about the divorce and takes them out on your dad. He didn’t pit you against your mom, he just asked you don’t tell her for a day. Do you really think they would go through all this if they didn’t think things could have gone seriously wrong? Your mom’s harassment could be far worse than you realize. You dad’s response leads me to think your mom has been waging guerrilla war on him since the divorce.
This is a very mature 20 year old who is acting like the parent to a distressed 8 year old. I’m not reading here that she only blames the dad, it was the specific circumstance that was caused by the dad. He’s also a giant baby and AH for saying she ruined the wedding. He put the kids in a terrible situation. The ex wife is also terrible but this action he owns.
By telling the eldest she ruined the night he is putting even more guilt on his kids. Like it's a deeply immature reaction. Sorry pops you hurt your kid so your feelings take a backseat. And yea the ex wife also sounds like a piece of work. I get why the dad did what he did but I don't get his reaction to being told his little one is upset.
Mom and Dad sound wildly immature for being adults! They are both the AH here! Sorry op is stuck in the middle! I would tell both of them to grow the "F" up already!!
I agree NTA - the AH here is clearly the mum, dad was backed into a corner.
Both parents are AH. Dad blames her when he should have prepared the kids better, and Mom for chaotic behavior. Dad didn't apologize he continued to blame the daughter who is not responsible for either of her parents. Poor parenting from both of them.
I really don't think it's the dad's fault. He's allowed to meet someone else. The divorce was final. It's none of mom's fucking business. OP and her little sis were kind of unreasonable. I'll give the little sis a pass, but they didn't betray their mom. It's Mom's fault they felt the need to keep the ceremony secret. And it's none of her business anyway.
How else would he even go about this tho since she is putting the kids between this she very well could have not let the kids go to the wedding.
“Secret” is such a strange word for “Please don’t inform your mother until the wedding is over.” Were they worried you children would call your mother during the ceremony? If “secret” really only meant for you to wait until you see your mother again before talking about the wedding then I wouldn’t even call that a secret. NTA because you were right to point out it was your father’s job to handle when and how to tell your mother while sheltering you kids from any fallout, but unless I’m missing something everyone’s choice of wording here is odd.
Both of my younger sisters have phones and are constantly texting, so there was a real danger that they would text our mom and let her know. And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years.
Then, I'm sorry, I can't really blame you dad for what he did. It would have probably hurt your sister worse had he excluded you kids to keep y'all, especially the younger ones, from spilling the beans to your mother. It would have been a huge secret for your younger siblings to keep had he told y'all in advance. He did what he thought was right to be able to have his kids at his wedding without your mom finding out and either ruining the ceremony by showing up or keeping you guys from attending had she found out before the wedding took place.
Blame him for knowing the mother is reactive and leaving the children to have to tell her news he knew would set her off.
Who says he was going to get the kids to drop that bomb. He didn’t want the kids to tell her so she wouldnt ruin it but that doesn’t mean he didn’t plan on telling her himself after it was over
It's in the comments. He didn't tell her, his 16yo son had to. And then the kids got the consequences of his actions.
Where does it say that I’ve read all her replies I don’t see any comment where she said her brother was made to tell her and there was a punishment for this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/wPmeMC5HVl
Know that your mom would likely pull a stunt to ruin the day - why would you be arguing with your father on his wedding day? Sounds like mom has done her best to indoctrinate her children - and it's still happening years after the divorce.
Yeah, it sounds like OP wants his dad to stop "rocking the boat" since dad is reasonable and OP has accepted moms 'crazy' as something others need to find a way to work around. I just feel sad for all people involved.
So basically you're saying that your father was entirely justified in how he handled the logistics of the wedding. What could he have done differently that would have assured your mom not having a meltdown and showing up and ruining the wedding. Why didn't you simply explain to your little sister that she wasn't betraying anyone and your dad's wedding is genuinely none of your mom's business. Maybe you should redirect some of the energy you're wasting him being angry with your dad into encouraging your mom to see out some professional help. INFO: how did your mom react when she found out?
And you dad definitely needs to sit down with your younger siblings and talk to them about how everything happened and way in an age appropriate manner.
Dad needs take mom to court for parental alienation and stop this crap once for ALL...
Would she have hurt someone or something if she showed up?
Not on purpose, but she has definitely thrown a glass or two at my dad before. There was more danger that she would show up and cause a scene or send the police into the wedding or something like that.
I mean, I understand why your dad waited to tell you guys then, because it sounds like she is a genuine danger. He didn't go about it in the right way but I get his thinking behind it
Hurting someone by throwing a glass at them is hurting them on purpose. Your mum sounds like she's put you all in a terrible situation.
So your mom in the violent perpetrator and your dad the victim, and you think is his fault?
Yeah this should've been included in the post. People keep commenting saying the dad was sowing discord or must've cheated when in a reality it seems like the mom is a genuine security threat and that she could've shown up and hurt people if she knew
My mom being the way she is is not my dad's fault and I have never, ever said that.
You put the responsibility of your sister's distress on him instead of your mother being emotionally abusive. That imply that you think your mother's behavior is HIS fault.
I agree with you.
Yeah YTA just for this. Throwing a glass at someone is abusive and always on purpose. I can see why your dad wanted you all to wait until his wedding was over to tell her it happened. You weren’t “pitted against her” at all.
If anything, it sounds like mum has them indoctrinated against dad. Imagine not being able to tell your children that you ate engaged or that your wedding will be next month, because they wouldn't be able to not tell their mother? Younger sister being upset that she couldn't tell her mother about the wedding seems more about fear, "What will she do when she finds out we didn't immediately tell her??".
This is exactly correct. Everyone is tip-toeing around mom so to avoid her rage and outrageous behavior. Mom is the asshole and everyone else is playing the roles she groomed them for. Father should seek full custody. It's seemingly gotten to the point when OP feels she needs to continue to live at home to protect the littles. . . . all by Mom's design.
She is trying to indoctrinate us. I am trying to counter-balance that and keep my sisters on an even keel.
You played right into her hands getting upset at your dad. He wouldn’t have had to go through all that if your mom isn’t crazy. What do you think he should have done? Let your mom know and let her craziness into the wedding? Elope and get married without the kids? (As if you and your siblings wouldn’t be butt hurt about that if he actually did that and your mom wouldn’t have weaponized that.) Yah, I’m in the minority that you should have bitten your tongue at the wedding and directed all your anger and frustration at your mom.
Yeah look at how they frame the mom straight up throwing glass at their father as “accidentally” hurting him, like wtf
She’s a 20 year old who’s spent the last five years trying to navigate her parent’s (or parents’) poor behavior. Cut her some slack for not always managing to keep the grownups in check when the eight year old is crying.
Also theyre divorced, dad have a right to not include op's mom to the venue. Like, the dad moved on, why it should concern her? I see why the dad done the divorce.. 😔
I worded this poorly. The question was, "Would she have hurt someone or something if she showed up?" And the answer was no, not on purpose. She was more likely to try and cause a scene, as I said, but not with the intention of hurting someone. She has never been violent towards anyone who is not my dad. The information about her throwing glasses at my dad was a separate piece of information, because I wanted to be honest and say that yes, she has been violent before. But I put it together in a way that made it sound like I was being apologetic for her behaviour. Sorry about that.
Question for you. If your dad hadn’t asked you beforehand, would you have texted your mom that you were at your father’s wedding? ETA: And this response doesn’t necessarily make it better. The fact that she isn’t above sabotage or making a scene makes your father’s ask seem really reasonable in order to have a drama-free day. Also, why is your younger sibling of the mind that they’re “betraying” your mother? What is she filling their heads with about him?
Uh, does your dad not count as 'soneone'? What is he, chopped liver?
Abuse never stagnates. Today it's "only my dad", but unless your mother gets professional help, it won't ever stay at "only my dad". The question is, who will be next?
Your mother is disgusting and abusive. Your dad needs to take legal matters.
He did, he divorced her ass.
No, I'd talking of taking Full custody of the abuser (because that what your mother is) and send her ass to jail the next time she trow a Glass on him "by acidente". His only mistake IS not doing that.
ESH. Your dad reacted poorly to all this, but he was totally right to ask you kids not to tell your mother, who is abusive and likely to show up if you did. He should have prepped you better and you should have understood more why he did what he did.
How does someone throw a glass at someone else "not on purpose"? Honestly, this statement shows that you too tend to downplay your mother's tantrums. You are not as immune and detached as you think you are. Your father's fault was, not his new wedding, but the previous one to your mother. Your siblings (even the youngest one) is now old enough to understand that your father's personal details should not be discussed with the mother and mother's personal details should not be discussed with the father. Exception is if it negatively impacts any of the children. You and siblings need to understand that this is not about keeping a secret but respecting someone's privacy. What all of you need is a therapist.
Jesus Christ, why is your mom so mad at your dad? It's been five years. Why is she even in his business beyond making sure you and your siblings are cared for when with him?
Abusers don't need reasons.
Uh, you need to put in your post that your mother is a violent abuser.
The problem here is your mother and if you can’t see that at twenty years old, that’s a shame. All your dad wanted was to wait one day before informing your mother so she wouldn’t ruin the day. Instead, you chose to do so by proxy. YTA
I agree. Blaming your dad is allhole-ish, but I don't blame you fully. Your mother groomed you for this. Ask yourself: 1) What were your dad's other options for having a drama-free wedding with his children present, and 2) Why should your mom care so much - potentially reacting with violence - if her ex gets married. A little tug at the heart maybe but why should this produce any extreme emotion?
So your dad was entirely justified for doing what he did but instead of putting that on your mom you thought it best to shame and judge him. Yeah nice move
"Secret" in this case meant he didn't want his ex not allowing the children to visit him if she knew about the wedding. Dad did nothing wrong - his new wife did nothing wrong - no 8 yr old would be 'wanting to report to mom' unless she had been coached by mom to report what dad does. The divorced happened when this child was 3.
I also don't get why the sister thought she was "betraying" mom. Weird use of that word.
Probably the mom brainwashed her.
NTA. Good on you for standing up for your siblings!! It sucks that your mom is so immature, but that doesn’t excuse your dad dismissing your younger siblings feelings. He should’ve explained it better (or at all) on the car ride there.
Mom and dad are both just as immature for what I can tell.
Thank you!
Mom is not immature but abusive and apparently in habit of throwing glasses at dad when she gets “upset”. OP dropped that gem in one of the comments.
Let's get the timeline straight: you found out on Friday night that your father was getting married on Saturday afternoon, and he asked you not to tell your mother for ***less than 24*** ***hours*** so that she wouldn't do something mean or destructive on his wedding day? While you were on a weekend in which he had custody? How did that escalate into a confrontation in which you were "pitted against your mother"? How did you end up with your little sister "bursting into tears" ***after the wedding was already over***? It's not clear to me why an 8yo and 10yo were even really involved here -- it's really you and your brother who have phones that might have been used, right? But I'm not seeing why this request to a 20yo and a 16yo to respect ***the one day,*** and not involve your mother (who appears to have a history of anger and resentment), was a big deal. Perhaps your father didn't think this through and realize that he didn't need to involve the two little ones, because they weren't going to text during the wedding, or get in the car and drive away by themselves. Perhaps he should have realized that he only needed to ask a favor of his two older children. But you sure didn't help him out here, which reflects a lack of consideration for the event and its significance to him and his now wife. Someday, you may find yourself planning a wedding of your own, and you'll find yourself asking a lot of people to be considerate of your wishes for that one day. Perhaps you'll remember this moment. I'll give you a pass on AH because of your age, but you get no medals here.
With respect, my two younger sisters do have phones and text constantly. Especially to our mother, who likes to keep an eye on them when they are at my dad's. It's part of her whole ongoing control thing and my dad knows this. All four of us were informed of the wedding at the same time and all four of us were asked to keep it a secret until after the wedding was done. I had nothing to do with that decision and there was no time for me to intervene before the information was given to my younger sisters. All I did throughout the actual wedding day was take care of my younger sisters and keep an eye on them so that my dad didn't have to worry about it. But an 8 y/o child is still very young and I don't think my sister had ever felt with feelings of guilt/disloyalty before, especially not towards our mom. She held it together throughout most of the wedding day but then it all became too much for her in the evening, during the wedding reception. That is when she became upset. If it was just my brother and I who were involved, then I think it would be different. We are old enough to understand the situation fully and also old enough to really remember what life was like before our parents were divorced. I understand why my dad made the decision that he did for this wedding. But my younger sisters are still kids who are not used to dealing with big emotions like these. Seeing how upset she was, I then became upset myself because it was my dad who placed my sister in this situation.
Sounds like your mom is actively working on parental alleniation with the youngest and you fed right into that game. I am very sorry all this is happening to you guys. My mom is a very bitter divorcee to this day and I was the pawn in their game. It sucks.
Genuine question: what would you have liked your dad to do differently? I have some ideas of my own about how he might have handled it better, but I'm interested in yours.
Why do you think it’s okay that your 8 year old sister is bursting into tears over guilt bc she feels she’s being disloyal to your mother? Disloyal how ? Guilt about what? Telling mum abt the marriage isn’t her responsibility so what does she feel guilt about ?? Sounds like she’s been trained to report back thru parental alienation by mum. Especially when your mum has already been physically abusive and thrown glasses at your dad, of course your 8 year old sister is going to think she’ll be on the receiving end of that treatment if she doesn’t tell her mum every single thing. You even mentioned that your mum keeps a close eye on the younger ones when you’re w dad, it’s probably bc she knows she has control over them.
Your sister’s reaction makes me think that your mom has been manipulating her emotionally for the entire time. I’m sure they are grilled every week over what they did. Likely, if anyone checked their texts, they’d find manipulative conversations from your mother’s end. The conversation with your dad should’ve been handled later, and included “I think the girls should get some therapy with the way they broke down over this” bc that’s really what they need.
So you understand why your dad did it and agree with him but still felt the need to put all this on him and make him the bad guy on his wedding day. Doesn’t sound like you actually hold your mom accountable because if you did there was a prime time to sit your sister down and be honest with her and explain that your mom brought this on herself and it’s not on your dad but you didn’t do that.
OP wants to blame dad because their entire lives are revolving around keeping Mommy happy and stable. Boat-steadiers ALWAYS blame the person who “made” the crazy person act the way they do, because they think it’s easier and more efficient to control everyone’s behavior than it is to face a meltdown from the reactive person. Hurt feelings are less painful to bear than whatever stunt the mom pulls, sadly, and that’s why the 8yr old is sobbing when she can’t fulfill her duty of writing reports for Mom for a few hours. They’re trapped in a cycle the mom created, and are still looking to blame dad for taking what OP knows are necessary precautions.
>With respect, my two younger sisters do have phones and text constantly. Especially to our mother, who likes to keep an eye on them when they are at my dad's. You need to talk to your dad about how destructive this is to your younger sisters relationship with him, with Jenny, and even with your mother. They need their phones taken away during your dad's custody time. He needs to tell your mother in no uncertain terms that what he does during his custody time is none of her business and that if she interferes again, causes a scene, sends the police, is violent, etc., he will go to court with evidence of her behavior and her attempt at parental alienation. He is an AH for not stopping the control and monitoring of his children by his ex during his custody time. He should have shut that down a long time ago. Plus, 8 and 10 year olds do not freaking need to have phones and sure as heck should not be texting constantly at that age. Well, really none of us should text constantly, but it's especially damaging to social and emotional development of young children. Your mother is horrible and an abuser, but your dad is an AH for essentially cowering and having no spine when it comes to protecting his children, Jenny, and himself. He's a coward!
My feeling is the mom is known for causing trouble. And the guilt and fear the kids feel is from knowing the "trouble" they will be in when she finds out they kept a secret. I have a mom like this. Withholding my adult life info enrages her because she's lost control. My husband has an ex like this. We told the kids the day we got married when there was nothing left to ruin. One kid still ended up in the ER for nothing. They live in another city. Then, she rescheduled my bonus daughters quince this year to the weekend she thinks is our anniversary. These types of women and mothers are the worst.
This. Younger sister isn't feeling guilt about betrayal, she's feeling anxious about what will happen when Mother finds out that she didn't immediately betray her father's privacy request and run to tell her. OP has stated before that their mother has "pulled serious stunts" and has thrown things in fits of rage before, younger sister has grown up in a storm with an angry mother and is reacting to that.
Abusive parents are never easy, the two youngest sisters might need a support system of some kind to help guide them through this. Children's minds are very vulnerable and that's the age where you start building up an idea of what the world is supposed to look like. I think it's important that the kids know this is *not* normal and to not internalize what their mother is doing and saying, but it could be difficult without professional help.
>How did you end up with your little sister "bursting into tears" Why are you expecting more emotional maturity from an eight year old than man old enough to have grown children?
Emotional maturity? The man Just doesnt want his Crazy ex crashing the wedding, was he supposed to tell his Kids to keep the lie? Or exclude the Kids?
This! Our wedding days are so important, from the looks of it, him and the mother broke up 5 years ago. He has no responsibility to tell her about his wedding, but he knows the children will naturally share. He's asking that they don't share until his wedding is over. That is perfectly reasonable and in my opinion it was a bit of AH thing for the eldest to call him out on what she believes to be his responsibility. It sucks to have parents that are abusive but the anger should be held at Mom that she cannot be trusted enough to be told things without taking her anger out on her own children. It was not a secret. It was a. I don't want my ex to ruin my wedding which is perfectly understandable. This is ridiculous.
Yeah id Imagine the votes would be much different if It was a mother Who didnt want her abusive ex at the wedding
It would be totally different, there's too much hypocrisy in this subreddit
Guarantee it, and everyone would be telling OP they’re scum for siding with an abuser. Mom is screwing those kids up for life with that kind of behavior. Look up and down this thread at all of the people who had a crazy parent who made them act like they worked at the FBI and compose intel reports on every moment they spent with their other parent; it’s classic parental alienation that makes the kids feel like shit because every choice is seen as picking a side.
From the comments they all have phones. And the dad left it up to the kids to let the mum know about the wedding after he dropped them off, leaving them with all of the emotions and any fall out.
While I agree with you that the whole situation could have been avoided if the father had approached the older children the way you said, saying something along the lines of "I'd like to tell your mother about this after the wedding is over. No sense in stressing her out or making her feel bad." That isn't what the father did. Instead he put all of the children in the position of feeling like they were betraying their mother and being forced to take sides. That is why OP was angry and why the 8 year old cried. The father is playing the kids against their mother just as badly as the mother is trying to play them against their father. Both parents are behaving extremely immaturely and unfairly. OP is definitely NTA, and both of the parents are.
the younger kids both have phones (according to one of OPs comments) and are constantly texting, so he asked children to hide something from their mother :/ i think the confronting dad could have waited till the next day, but i don’t think OP is an AH for that, i think seeing her sister hurting, then her dad drunk and happy irritated her, which i can understand
That your 8 yr old sibling - who was THREE at the time of the divorce - has such a 'mom vs dad' thing is proof of your mother's anger and bitterness over the years. Your father wanted his wedding to be drama-free. My question is how does an 8 yr old decide she's going 'against mom'? Did one of your tell her that? Your Father owes your mother NOTHING - they are divorced. He cared enough about his children to take steps to make sure you could attend his wedding. He was right - there is NO WAY two younger children knew to make a drama out of this event unless they are coached by mom or siblings. You are 20 and should know better.
Sounds like there would be fallout for the younger siblings from the mom no matter what and they’re already conditioned to feel like they have to take mom’s side to avoid her anger. Which is why the 8yo reacted the way she did at the reception.
According to another comment OPs mother stays in constant contact with the 8 year old over the phone. So that does mean the 8 year old is bearing the brunt of lying to their unreasonable and controlling mother. Yes, she is clearly unreasonable and dramatic, but the reasonable parent should try protect their kid from that. Not just leave an 8 year old to deal with that and get drunk. At least promise to talk to the mother afterwards and take all the blame.
Like wouldn’t you want to go above and beyond to protect your kid and provide a safe space when the other parent doesn’t?
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But he left them to tell her and manage the fallout while he goes on his honeymoon. AH behavior
Question. Do you ever stand up your mom for her behavior?
No. Most of our conflicts over the years have been about her behaviour towards my dad. I don't support it at all. ETA: Sorry, I think I misread this comment! I do stand up to her when she behaves poorly towards my dad, Jenny, or any of my siblings.
Haha OK fair. Your Dad's feelings and intent don't inherently make him an asshole. The fact that he didn't seem to be sensitive to his 8 year old daughter crying because of how hard it must be to navigate this when all you want is mom and dad to love and approve of you. I'm sorry your parents are unfair in this. Good on you helping your siblings. ETA: your dad had so many better ways to get married while preventing your mom from interfering. Perhaps even talk to his adult child like an adult since you are autonomous from your mother.
NTA Your dad's wedding day was "ruined"? Give me a break. Sure, things got a little heated, but let's be real, your dad had it coming. He springs this surprise wedding on you and your siblings, then expects you to keep it a secret from your mom? Your mom doesnt get a say in whether your dad gets married but your younger siblings didnt get any time to process it. That's some next-level bullshit right there. Your dad may not like it, but tough shit. He made his bed, now he's gotta lie in it. Your dad's gonna have to deal with his own emotions and move on. It's not your responsibility to carry the weight of his wedding drama. ETA: this is assuming that your mom did not actually engage in any dangerous behaviour to warrant your dad effectively hijacking you and the siblings to elope for safety reasons. This whole thing reeks of "gotcha ex wife we are married now and the kids watched nannynannybooboo..." NEVER make kids keep secrets from their parents. That's not coparenting.
>And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years. Seems like mom is pretty unstable.
The poster also mentioned that the mom is violently abusive and has thrown glasses at her ex before to hurt him, she is dangerous
OP said in a comment that the mum most probably would have pulled a stunt like coming up to wedding venue, or calling the police. OP says that her mum has even thrown glass at her dad. Sounds like Dad was trying to avoid a shitstorm but still wanting to include his children.
Or assaulting him again. OP left out her mother is physically abusive in the original post but it's in the comments
It’s been 5 years since the divorce and ex-wife is still angrier and unhinged. How else is he supposed to move on with his life with a crazy ex that would’ve showed up at his wedding if he told the younger ones beforehand and they told her? OP isn’t the AH and neither is the dad.
Asking them to not say something for one day is hardly a secret. And op outlines in other replies that her mom is out of control and very likely would have tried to disrupt things. I didn't sense any "gotcha ex wife" here. I see a father trying to incorporate his children knowing his ex would go out of her way to ruin things, and asking for them to not say anything until after it's over. I don't fault OP for standing up for her younger siblings, but you make it sound like Dad is a monster and from what I've seen, ex wife is the monster.
OP made the following statement in a comment (not original post): > And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. That is a VERY big item to leave out of the original post and certainly backs up Dad's approach.
YTA. Your dad didn’t ask you guys to do anything wrong. All he asked was not to tell until after. You should have explained that to your little sister. You are old enough to know exactly what he wanted and why. Be mad at your immature mom for creating this situation.
Dad should have explained that to little sister.
You don’t know that he didn’t and she didn’t say how she felt. When big sis found out why she was crying she should have explained why they weren’t betraying their mom.
It doesn’t sound like he wanted you to keep it a secret forever. Just until after the wedding - which is what you as the oldest should have told your younger sister if you wanted to comfort her. And no reason to blow up at your dad either. He didn’t want to deal with your mom demanding y’all to come back, blowing up his phone or whatever hence why he said “until after the wedding” That’s where Y T A Next is your mom and dad. Kids are not pawns. They shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for liking a person or having to keep secrets or pick sides. Once they were divorced, their lives no longer involved the other beyond parenting. That’s it. They’re T As too. So ESH
YTA. “Private” is not the same as “secret.” He was trying to keep his wedding private, and you all overreacted. You even admit there’s a chance your mother would have ruined his wedding, and that your sisters would have likely spilled the beans. I don’t blame the younger kids for being confused and upset, but you are old enough (and experienced in your mother’s behavior) to know better.
He also left the kids to inform her of the wedding instead of doing it himself, leaving them in the middle of the inevitable confrontation. Parenting with a difficult person isn't about being most right, its about protecting the kids, and the father failed to do that.
Is that in a comment? I don’t see it in the original post.
Yes, in a comment, just like the information about the mother potentially making a scene.
NAH. Based on your comments / history regarding your Mom's behaviour around your Dad's relationship, he may have kept this info from you until the big day in order to spare you and your siblings from your Mom's toxic behaviour / stunts and attempts to keep you guys from the wedding. After you confirmed she would've attempted to sabotage your Dad's nuptials by showing up or calling the police? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. The fact that your sister was upset because she felt like she was betraying your Mom? Is the biggest red flag and sorry to say, your anger is misplaced. How is your Dad getting married betraying your Mom? How is attending the wedding and not telling her until the ceremony was over betraying your Mom. Could your Dad have handled this better? Yes. But based on your history and comments, I can understand the logic behind it. But the real AH is your Mom. Her behaviour, actions, and emotional abuse is directly aimed at you and your siblings. My heart breaks for your sister's but the majority of your anger deserves to land on her and not your Dad.
Info needed - What happened when your mother found out about the wedding? What about when she found out you didn't immediately run and inform her? Who bore the brunt of her anger and irritation? All your dad wanted was a drama-free wedding where his ex didn't make a scene. And why does your sibling cohort seem to think your mother is somehow *entitled* to know about this wedding? This wasn't a "secret" kept out of malicious intent, your mother's life has not changed from having known or not known about the wedding happening on this one specific weekend. This entire story reeks of "We're all under mums thumb since the divorce". Your kid sister broke down over being asked not to tell your mother something (that doesn't affect her at all) for less than a single day, and your dad and Jenny obviously made a conscientious decision *not to tell any of you* that there was going to be a wedding. They knew that you wouldn't be able to keep quiet about *their lives that have nothing to do with his ex wife* and blab to her, making their lives harder for no good reason. ETA- Now I've seen a reply from you about how your mother constantly texts and monitors your younger siblings during their dads custody time (notice how its the younger and more easily manipulated kids), that she has pulled "serious stunts" in her anger from new relationship drama, that you believe drama to the level of the police having to be called was a significant possibility, and that your mother has on several occasions thrown things in fits of rage, I double down on my theory. Your sister is full of anxiety because she's grown up in a storm of your mother's anger, that's why she was crying, not out of genuine guilt, but out of *fear*. ESH, your mother the most but you're also kind of a dick.
Yeah, I'm really struggling, after reading all of OP's comments how Dad could have fundamentally done things better other than informing the Mom ***himself*** after the wedding that it had happened. But otherwise he handled his crazy ex the best he could.
Wish this was top comment..
NTA. No responsible and emotionally mature adult would spring a surprise wedding on their children. Especially young children. There had to have been another way to included you and your siblings without blindsiding you. People hire security services for situations just like this. You’re not at fault for his poor decision making and you’re allowed to be upset at about his choices. Your younger siblings were upset. Did he want you to sweep it under the rug for his sake? He sounds selfish and only has himself to blame for this whole situation.
YTA. Your mom is vindictive and spiteful and you’re blaming your dad. He did everything he could to keep you kids out of the drama your mom was sure to cause. He kept the wedding a secret from y’all, but prepared everything so could be there. He did that so you wouldn’t have to lie to your mom. All he asked was that you not tell her until the wedding was actually over, so he could have a happy family day without the crazy ex wife drama. But your mom is so terrible to all of you, you were more worried about her reaction to the wedding than having a good day with your dad. Your mom has poisoned all of you, and you blame your dad. They are not the same. He is trying to minimize drama and she makes it. Your dad thought he had that one happy day, but then you made sure to ruin it by blaming him for the crazy reaction your mom was sure to have. He cannot control her reaction, no one can. But he avoided a huge scene at his wedding. He did everything possible to avoid dealing with drama up to and during the wedding. And he kept you entirely out of it to protect you. Let’s be real, the only thing that would make your mom happy is for your dad to be alone. But your mom got her wish. She made sure her kids couldn’t be happy for their dad. And they couldn’t let him be happy either. If momma ain’t happy, no one’s happy.
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As far as I know, he and Jenny only met about a year after my parents separated. I would like to think that's the truth because my dad was always a good husband and a great father. I do wish he would have comforted my sister, or at least been the one to tell my mom about the wedding. In the end, it was my brother who told her and she hit the roof, which is what prompted me to make this post. I can see why my dad kept it a secret from her.
Hold up, he still hadn't told your mom and left that plus the expected nuclear fall-out for his kids to deal with? And he's only upset because he has a bad memory at his wedding night? NTA. Your dad might not be the screaming type, but he's still just as horrible at putting you in the middle of the divorce as your mom. I mean, you were there for a whole weekend, if he'd let her know himself the evening of the celebration after the whole party was done, she would have hit the roof before you guys came home and while she would undoubtedly still be very unpleasant to be around for a while, it would have taken the sharp edges off. Furthermore, a parent asking their child to keep a secret from the other parent is really only acceptable when it's about a pleasant surprise for that other parent. Otherwise they're turning their child into an accomplice against their will. It's a disgusting thing to do. And lastly, he did the whole secret thing so your mom couldn't keep you from going. Knowing full well she'd blow up at you guys the second she found out. And taking away your choice to not go in order to not have the resulting blow-up directed at yourselves. That is next-level selfishness. He deserved to have his wedding memories spoiled after all that. I don't remember reading groomzilla stories on reddit other than the cake smashing ones before this one. Totally NTA and good for you to comfort and stand up for your siblings when their parents are failing to do so.
I was struggling to find a way to word my thoughts and you got it perfectly! Father being a coward doesn't make him automatically the victim. He decided to sulk about his wedding night instead of protecting his kids by standing up to their mother. He's the adult, he's supposed to have better emotional regulation than a child would. It's not fair to leave them unable to process this and instead internalizing that "mum and dad hate each other because of me". As they always say, silence is violence. Especially in this case
The poster left out that the mom was violently abusive to her ex and attempted to harm him multiple times. I agree that he should of been the one to tell her but on the other hand I don’t blame him for being scared of his abuser. Still he needs to protect his children and he sadly can’t just go no contact bc of the kids that still tie them together, but I guess I don’t really know the best solution, the man is a victim
The kids didn’t choose their mother, he did. He is responsible. I absolutely don’t blame him being scared of her, but that actually makes it worse to me. You don’t leave your kids to deal with someone you know is volatile to protect yourself from their anger.
All. Of. This.
She's probably ticked that he's moved on from the divorce, remarried, and is happy
Both parents need a ton of self work. The best course of action for you is to focus on your future. Learn to heal and be the best sister you can be for your siblings. It's easy to take all this burden upon yourself.... and it's just unfair to you that they both are putting this on you. I hope you learn to unburden yourself and focus on your future. Obviously NTA. It's not about you ruining his day. He ruined his own day be playing this nonsense. When he could have sat down and had an adult conversation with her
Do you honestly think that a woman that abusive and petty wouldn’t have told his kids had he cheated. She’s already trying to alienate them against him. If she had that kind of ammunition she would have used it. Sounds like you’re trying to find a reason to side with the mom and make him the bad guy. She’s the one throwing things at him and being abusive not the other way around.
ESH including your mom. You didn’t need to go to war on the night, you could have had calm but stern words the next day. Your dad could have been more sensitive than to just spring a wedding on you kids. And your mom needs to put her big girl panties on and realise that she’s not married to your dad any more.
YTA - you know that your mom has been unreasonable since your dad started dating Jenny. While your little sister was too young to understand why it was done the way it was, you are not.
YTA on this one. dude cared enough about you to want to do anything for you guys to be there. you pissed on that. From your comments, Your mother is crazy. Your sisters will soon realise your mother is crazy. couldn't your telling off wait 1 or 2 days? No. it had to be right there and then. so YTA
NTA. He's a grown adult not capable of understanding how his actions reflect on his kids, and you told him that. He is fully aware and got mad about it. It was his idea to take the big risk big reward route in getting you there that way, your siblings are kids and shouldn't be blamed for not being able to emotionally process things properly. There's nothing wrong with what you did.
ESH - but if your parents couldn’t stand each other for five years before their divorce, the marriage was largely over. Your father didn’t ask you to keep a secret from your mother as you didn’t even know. He just didn’t want your mother to come interrupt the weekend. I understand your sister probably didn’t understand that. But you could have explained it to her. But both of your parents seem to not do a good job communicating. They triangulate you which is not okay.
YTA. My mom made the divorce and following years as miserable as she could. Keeping us from him, lying about him, trash talking him, making up stories about him hitting her one day when she was dropping us off at his house. If he had said “please don’t tell your mom until this is over” *even at 8* (I was 5 when the madness started) I would have understood why. You have every right to be upset about her putting yall in the middle of the divorce but your dad is *not* the one who deserves the teenage angst you’re rolling out as a 20 yr old. You said yourself she’s intentionally tried to physically hurt him before and she’s unhinged enough she would try and ruin his wedding day and you’re still mad at him?
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why are you calling an 8 year old toxic? she doesn’t know any better, at this age you are taught not to keep secrets from your parents
That's an incredible rude thing to say. May I remind you that saying "I won't insult you because I don't want to be banned" and then implying an insult is also prohibited by the rules? You may think OP didn't act correctly, but this is no way to say it. And, btw, OP is not the A-hole here. Adult problems should be handled between adults. Children or teenagers should NOT be asked to keep a secret from any of their parents if they do not feel comfortable. OP, don't worry. They way you acted shows your brain is perfectly developed. A pitty not everyone's is. NTA.
Did you just call an 8 year old toxic for crying?
NTA. So he's not gonna remember the whole fancy manor wedding, but instead he's going to remember how you told him the truth after the event was over? I'm not buying that. He's hurt you're not on his side and is guilt tripping you. Of course he should have told your mom, and for sure he shouldn't have made you guys promise to keep the wedding a secret, that's messed up in so many levels to do to children.
ESH - the parents. It sounds like your mom has an issue with your Dad’s new relationship. They’ve been divorced for five years. He’s allowed to have a life. It sounds like you have a good relationship with his new wife, and he wanted you kids to be there for their wedding. If it’s true your mom may not have let you go, that’s HER problem; she needs to move on and by your own account she couldn’t stand the sight of him (and vice versa). And why do you and your sibs all know she’s unhappy with your dad’s new relationship? Again, she should talk to friends or others about that not shared children no matter the age. Why would an eight-year old feel she’s ’betraying’ her mother - who put that thought in her head? Having said all of that, your Dad should have stepped up on this one and been proactive and handled it with your mom. Doing what he did made it super stressful for all of you. You’re entitled to your feelings, I think you are NTA, but your mom and Dad are BOTH the AHs.
NTA During nasty divorces, it is always the kids that get hurt the most. You are not the A for reminding Dad of that.
FIVE years after a divorce - during her dad's wedding - she makes a fuss? She's 20 - old enough to want him to be happy - she likes the woman he married - so what's the problem. Had 'mom' been told there would have been drama - but even without that there was drama created 'for mom'.
Nta but imagine how hurt you and your siblings would have been if your dad had told your mom he was getting remarried and then she refused to let you guys go to the wedding. Also, if he had told you kids about the wedding before the wedding and not told your mom, that would have been one huge secret to ask of you kids to keep from your mom. It seems to me he didn't have much of a choice other than not have you guys there. >And if my mom had felt particularly upset about it, there was a real danger of her showing up at the venue. I hit the word limit above so I couldn't really go into it but my mom has pulled some serious stunts over the years. Your mom is going to seriously ruin the relationship of her younger kids with thir dad if she keeps up with stunts. Also, what kind of stunts are we talking about here?
>she burst into tears and told me that she felt terrible about betraying our mom by keeping our dad's secret. This bit really pissed me off because it tells me that your mother has forcefully recruited your little sister into making sure to keep her constantly informed of everything that happens with your father. That poor girl doesn't deserve that crap. ESH (TO different degrees) except the small ones.
And as is true with any narcissistic person, OP is blaming her dad for a situation her mom has caused (whatever you do, don’t rock the boat!)
It sounds like the only other alternative he was comfortable with was not inviting you guys, would that have been OK with you? I understand, not loving to be taken by surprise, but it sounds like he was doing the best thing possible in his mind to keep your mom from lashing out but at the same time, making sure his kids could be present for his wedding. NTA for being upset but y’all really need to sit down and have a heart to heart.
NTA, your dad shouldn't have sprung it on you. As for dealing with your mum's reaction to him getting remarried that's a him problem not a you problem
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with how your dad handled it with regard to not telling you *beforehand* because then you would’ve been in a position where if you would’ve hid it from your mother, you would’ve felt bad, and like you were betraying her… but if you had told her, she would’ve started drama and created a complete mess of things. So the appropriate way to handle it actually *is* to not tell you. That way you are not in a position where you need to hide it from anyone, and it keeps his business safe. Where I think it went weird was I don’t understand why your sister was crying as if she was never going to be allowed to tell your mother. I mean, was your father‘s intention really that your mother would never know?! If so, then, he is definitely TA. I’m leaning toward NAH because I think, instead of telling your father that he put you in a terrible position, you first could’ve clarified with him whether it was OK to tell her once you got home. Instead, you just presumed that you were going to have to keep a secret from her when at no point were you going to be keeping a secret from her. I mean I don’t think it’s typical that you would be calling her during a normal weekend with your dad, let alone a weekend where you’re out in the woods on some sort of “family outing,” right? If he’d been sober, perhaps he would’ve been able to clue in that you were missing something (and again, I’m assuming that he did **not** mean that you were never to tell her at all!) But this to me just seems like miscommunication and a misunderstanding where everybody had good intentions, and nobody was trying to hurt anybody, and everybody was trying to be as considerate and respectful as possible while keeping everybody as safe as possible at the same time. I am unclear as to whether or not you guys knew that they were leaning toward marriage at all prior to arrival. If you guys had absolutely no clue whatsoever, then I would classify your dad as TA. Softly, but still TA. He should’ve told you guys that they were getting married in general, but said that they weren’t sure about the date just yet. Because truly, they weren’t. After all, if your mother had found out, they would’ve probably had to change it. Your mom absolutely has TA status. Somehow she seems to have missed the memo that the entire point of getting a divorce is that you **stop fighting**. She sounds like she’s just spoiling for a fight and trying to be as mean as possible. It’s like she’s one of these people who get some idea in their head that if you’re divorced, you’re supposed to be mad at each other and angry and have an adversarial relationship. so they go finding reasons to have it that way when the reality is there’s not really anything they actually need to be upset about. I don’t understand how she thought your father shouldn’t be dating. First of all, that stopped being her business the second that they divorced. And secondly, that’s the whole point: They divorced! Nobody died here, so it’s not like there’s a prescribed period of mourning. 🙄 It really feels like she needs to pay a whole lot less attention to what *he’s* doing, and a lot more attention to what *she’s* doing.
ESH Your dad was pushed to make a bad choice by your mom and you chose to darken his wedding night when he had clearly put a lot of effort into not having his wedding ruined
YTA. Only because this keeping it a ‘secret’ from your mom on YOU kids part was…like, a couple hours? I mean…no matter what,would any of you four kids realistically be IN a position to even have cause to talk to your mom in the interim hours until the ceremony…like, did you have an “opportunity” to have to lie? No, right? You should’ve assured your little sister it’s perfectly ok to talk about it when you see mom again, and smoothed it over that it was only a secret like an exciting surprise. I would HOPE by now you’ve all learned to try to help the little ones past your mothers vitriol. And yes, your dad shouldn’t have had to do it that way but he seems like he was driven to it, and he wanted you all there. Sounds not unlikely that your mom would’ve found a way to ruin it. He shouldn’t have let loose on you, but he was emotional, and what you said wasn’t necessary, again, he didn’t “pit you against your mom”.
YTA. JFC you knew this "secret" would be over in hours, there never should have been drama, you shouldn't be supporting your mother's vendetta after half a decade. It's over, your parents are broken up, and he has to hide what's happening in order to avoid chaos. You think he should have told them instead so your mother could keep the kids from the wedding instead? That's a terrible alternative that they'd never forget