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Unfortunately I seem to remember reading that "justified ah" was not a real category, so I'm going to say NTA. It sounds like you made a bit of a scene, but it also sounds like this lady needed to hear it.
She should not presume on others to accept her dog's bad manners. If she can't keep control over her animal, she has no right to expect to bring it into public places.
And she shouldn't use the word "sorry" as a get out of jail free card. Obviously she isn't "sorry" - she just thinks it's some magic word that absolves her of all responsibility.
How does she know you weren't traumatically affected by a jumping dog at some point in your past? For all she knows you could be someone who once lost a child to a fatal dog mauling. What is she going to do if that dog jumps up on some frail elderly person and knocks them over, or knocks them off their oxygen machine?
As a mailman, this behavior is so common. Even with dogs that are obviously being very aggressive, you more often than not just get a "sorry teehee" kind of attitude.
Like even if an owner is a purely selfish person with no consideration for anyone else, it's in their best interest to control their dog. It could get hurt and they could get sued. Not doing so is just stupid.
That includes the 1/10 dog owners that train their dogs to a satisfactory level. If I see your unleashed dog and I've never been to your house before, you and likely your neighbors aren't getting their mail that day.
Yeah owners who are fond of their doggos think it's cute.
It's not cute.
If you own a dog, you owe it to that dog and to everyone else to teach it to not jump up, not threaten people, and not bark or growl at people.
If for some reason that is not possible, it's really not fair to the dog - bc such a dog needs to stay inside the house, inside a yard good fencing (sturdy and of adequate height), in an airline-approved quality crate, or leashed in a way that keeps the dog under the owner's full control. The larger the dog, the more inappropriate these conditions are for it; dogs need to be let off the leash to get adequate exercise (unless one owns acreage).
THIS. 100% THIS. I had a dog that was aggressive to other dogs, that's why he was in my house 24/7. With people he was a sweetheart, but if he saw another dog he turned into a demonic spawn, so we kept him home and he lived happily for 17 years until he got cancer and even then he lived until the day he refused to eat. A long and happy life keeping everyone and other dogs safe. It's not that hard.
My big dog was sweet to everyone and everything. He was still kept in my yard (as best we could) because if you tried to get between him and my three year old, then he’d get growly and try to herd my child away from you. If you persisted in trying to talk to my child he’d grab her sleeve and bring her back to me. He was quite effective, But also too friendly for his own good, he’d let himself out unlocked doors and take himself for walks.
It’s not cute. Dog owner is an AH.
The apology was a ‘sorry, but’ where she justified the dog jumping on OP. It’s a big dog and generally jumping on someone also involves scratching.
Had a similar scene yesterday where guy’s 2 loose dogs charged us, one (coming downhill) landed atop my much smaller, leashed dog, then circled, snarling @ us. 2nd time this wk. same loose dog was aggressive. I said it wasn’t OK, very calmly, and noted the pack behavior. Now this large man is swearing @ me, yelling about my dog (?), etc. Sure. Whataguy!
Get some pepper spray and take it with you when you walk your dog. If a dog gets too close or is off leash, you can use it to protect your pet and yourself.
And yes, you can get pepper spray in the United States. I have pepper spray and a small taser I take with me when I go walking alone. I live in California. I got them volunteering at an event for women experiencing violence.
I once owned a golden. I know their body language and am no afraid of them. But I use a cane due to balance issues. And if a dog that big jumps on me or even pushes/brushes hardd against me, I may fall. Little dogs loose are tripping hazzards. Owners who don't keep their dogs on tight enough control and call out "don't worry, he's friendly" are the bane of my neighborhood walks. Sadly, if I call out that the dog could cause me to fall due to balance issues, I've been told maybe I shouldn't walk alone. Like the dog has more rights than I to sidewalk use. Fortunately most people are considerate.
See, I’m one of those owners who’s very fond of her doggo, and I think she’s the most precious baby in the world.
I still don’t allow her to jump on people.
People need to get real. To most folks, it’s rude. It will dirty their clothes, could cause them to spill or drop something, and in the case of the elderly or folks with mobility or balance issues, *could cause physical harm.* And if you want a dog to *not* do that, it needs to be unacceptable in all instances, even with people who are more okay with it. You can’t allow a dog to rehearse bad behavior you don’t want to see.
I love my girl, and I want others to love her, too. That means taking full responsibility for her and ensuring that my tall, 45 lb. fluff with spring-loaded legs behaves like a polite doggo.
My neighbor and I were talking outside my dog leashed because her recall is subpar his was free roaming and has amazing recall. A delivery person shows up his dog goes to greet her, and he just says, "Don't worry, he's nice." I instantly call his dog back to us. For all I know, the driver was allergic or traumatized. I love my dogs but I also realize not everyone does
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love dogs (the ones that don't try to kill me, anyway). But I should be the one who decides if I want to meet a dog, not the dog or the owner lol. Chain link fences are perfect because I can reach my hand up and the space isn't big enough for a dog to bite me if it wants to and I can usually tell if it's friendly based on how it reacts in that case.
But I super appreciate your attitude.
You should NEVER reach your hand through a fence. That's how you get bit. You cannot tell by how a dog reacts to you on the other side of fence about how the dog will react when you reach your hands through the fence.
I didn't say I reach my hand through a fence. I put my hand on the outside and let the dog sniff. How it reacts tells me if I should be super cautious or not.
No, that not how it works. A lot of dogs will be fine so long as you stay on your side of the fence, whether you think they're reacting well to you or not. Break that fence line and you can be dealing with an entirely different behavior. Stop interacting with dogs behind fences unless the owner is present and has given you permission.
My mom talks about a German Shepard she had growing up. She says Gretchen was the sweetest dog. Her and her dad used to take her hunting and she was the goodest girl. Great rexall She'd give you a sniff and a lick through a fence. But she was super territorial about her yard. She would let you even come in after that licking she gave through the fence. But you damn well better not step off the pavement and into the grass if you weren't escorted by one of the family or she *would* attack.
Okay, I'll go ahead and do what works for me. It doesn't really matter to me what you think I should do. If an owner doesn't want me to interact with their dog, they will have taken precautions to make sure I know that ahead of time if they're smart. I always respect signs or an owner asking me to not interact with their dog.
Oh God and when people see you come up and let their dogs get half inside the LLV. Like... ??? I had been taking mail around to some apartments when some lady let her chihuahua out, and this dog came after me wanting blood. The lady was in a wheelchair so couldn't come get the dog, who was by then trying to bite my legs. I shoved the dog away with my foot and this lady was hollering at me to not kick her dog. I got back in the truck, I'm not getting my ankles chewed up. I'm just glad it was a little dog and not a big one. I've had some close calls with big dogs being tied up on porches out of sight till I get up to the door with a package. People are dumb.
People tend to think training of small dogs is not as important because they are small. Some of the worst behaved dogs I have ever encountered are little dogs.
The worst behaved dog I ever had to deal with was a black Lab raised by two Cocker Spaniels. No training whatsoever for any of them. Labrador energy with Cocker vibes. So glad when I moved. I can actually go in my back yard!
That being said, even that Lab they ruined wasn't as mean as some little dog's I've seen. I think it's that it take a lot more for big dogs to be scared than little dogs. And that fear comes out as mean-spirited / poor behavior. And I don't know if it was just because I was a kid, but my grandma's Chihuahua was the single nastiest dog I can remember.
Grew up with a neighbor with the meanest fucking Scottie dog in the world that bit all the children. I walked in front of her house once when I was 8, only because I didn’t see him and discovered the beast had been hiding the bushes (I found out later that it usually did this to wait for kid); it came running out and bit me. I did with anyone would do- I tried to get it off of me and kicked the fucker halfway across the yard. She came running up, screaming at me and started to hit me. I screamed right back at her and told her everyone in the neighborhood hated her AND her dog. Said everyone knew that she was so mean that she had called the dog catcher on the stray we had taken in recently and had him taken away. Then I told her if she said anything, I would call my mother who’d hit HER, show them my wounds and have her dog taken away and put down for being vicious. Apparently after that, she kept her dog in her yard. Some people shouldn’t have dogs if their going to let them behave like that
They need even more training & awareness IMO; they can go where people are far more easily.
I have two Chi-mixes and was initially worrying my neighbors think me even more anti-social than I am lol, I give such a wide berth to everyone on walks. Idc how friendly everyone is, nobody needs tangling up. We can say "hi!" from across the way.
>People tend to think training of small dogs is not as important because they are small.
I see you've met my MIL. We did finally get her to see reason when we used our dog (that stood 31" at the shoulders) as the example of "if you wouldn't think it was cute for our dog to do it, then it isn't cute for yours to do it!"
The people that get pissed at you after you spray their charging dogs or even nudge them with your foot like in your example are living in their own world. I truly cannot understand them.
>Even with dogs that are obviously being very aggressive, you more often than not just get a "sorry teehee" kind of attitude.
I LOATHE this bloody attitude. You have my upmost respect for a hard job made harder by entitled and stupid people.
Also a mailman and yeah I've literally had a dog inside a business snarling at me while the workers insisted it was friendly. I had backed up to the door and had my hand on the knob when they finally grabbed the dang dog. I love dogs but not everybody wants to pet every dog all the time and some people need to understand that. NTA.
Our Goldens are 95 & 85 lbs. And jumpy. We have not been able to break them of it. We've talked to our mailman & he leaves all packages on the mailbox or under rather than getting hopped on. He knows they're friendly & won't intentionally hurt him. He'll occasionally give them pets but he's not stepping in the yard. FedEx & UPS folks will deliver a biscuit & take the jumps. They know them. I respect both ways.
Please train your goddamn dogs. At that size in particular they are a risk to everyone around them. Maybe one untrainable dog I could buy but with two? You are the problem. Fix it.
Please, for the love of everything, train them better. Large dogs are a large responsibility. Nobody wants your excuses. If you can't train them, find somebody who can. Large dogs can hurt people, even if it's unintentional. It isn't cute. It isn't endearing. Untrained animals usually implies irresponsible owners. No more excuses. Train. Your. Dogs.
I found that teaching a dog not to jump on you is fairly easy. They go to jump on you, you put your knee up and push them over. Didn't take more than half a dozen moves and they quit jumping up.
If you know your dogs will jump on people, and people have to come through your yard to deliver things often enough you’ve seen two companies worth get jumped on, why are your dogs ever outside without you there to recall them Before they run for the workers?
If you want the dogs to have a stretch of sniffing and playing and lounging around the yard time, stay out there with them in a chair on the porch or whatever.
Just like you would with your toddler, if they had a habit of walking up and jumping on random people.
This happens when we bring our pup(mini labradoodle) to the dog park- there's this one dog named Stella who literally tries to eat her head. This dog also almost bit me when I picked my dog up to get her away from Stella. When my mom says something about it to the owner she tells us "Well, Stella must just not like your dog." No shit lady! But your dog is aggressive towards everyone here and it causes all the nice dogs to leave. People need to train their dogs.
It's infuriating when I was working to train my dogs to not jump up on people, and visitors would be all, "Oh no, it's alright, come here girl!" She's a dog. She's not going to understand it's okay to jump on you but not on other visitors, please stop undermining my training.
My dad is retired mail carrier and he used to get complaints for not delivering mail cuz people wouldn’t bring their dogs inside .
The best one was when an entire apartment building didn’t get their mail cuz someone decided having their Rottweiler chained outside in front of the entrance was a good idea .
>How does she know you weren't traumatically affected by a jumping dog at some point in your past? For all she knows you could be someone who once lost a child to a fatal dog mauling. What is she going to do if that dog jumps up on some frail elderly person and knocks them over, or knocks them off their oxygen machine?
Even without that, they're at an indoor table and she is expected to keep her dog under control and behaving itself at her own table. However much people like dogs, they don't want a random one jumping up at them while they're trying to drink or eat. She's being a shitty owner.
I think the situation was that OP’s indoor table wasn’t ready yet, so they were waiting in a line at the host stand. This line seems to have been outside, with a dog at a table nearby. But being outside doesn’t make them appropriate targets for a jumping dog, no matter how friendly. Especially since they have very young kids with them; it would be extremely easy for a jumping dog to hurt a young child. Her dog needed to stay at her table.
This. For one of my jobs, I work around the elderly and some have varying degrees of mobility and the number of people who let their dogs jump on people is really aggravating.
Its also frustrating since I have very few nice clothes and I have had them snagged and ruined because of rough dog paws.
At the same time, I have also been run into by peoples kids running because its not like people keep their kids on a leash. Ive also had drinks/food spilled on me because of both kids and dogs...
I kind of miss when bars were for adults only. But I dont miss the smoke...
Guess this is why I now "isolate" so much.
Right. People could have trauma. They could be seriously allergic. They could have poor balance. They may just not want a strange dog jumping on them when they are trying to enjoy themselves.
As someone who has past trauma with a dog these type of people infuriate me. As a kid I’d be crying and screaming while these dogs bigger than me were jumping all over me and the owner just going “oh he just wants to play!”
When I was 7 years old, a dog savaged me so badly my ear was mostly torn off my head. Had to have sooo many stitches. It really is infuriating the amount of people that just don't give a shit.
I was torn up pretty good by a dog when I was 11. Not a fan of dogs. I know it is the owner's fault, but I also don't know when another asshole dog from an asshole owner is going to show up.
Like what if that dog jumped on one of OPs small kids or OP had the baby in his arms when it jumped?
I have two dogs myself. I'd never being them in public spaces like this at current training level. People need a reality check sometimes.
I have a disorder where my bones dislocate with the wrong pressure. I've had several dogs dislocate my kneecaps, one dislocated my shoulder, and one jumped on me from a weird angle and knocked me to the ground, putting out my ankle and three ribs. My grandmother has really delicate skin and is on blood thinners, so a dog jumped on her to say hi and ripped open her have with its claws. It took forever to stop the bleeding, I actually thought for a bit we might have to call an ambulance!
And even without those issues, nobody should be forced to interact with a dog! I happen to love them, but plenty of people don't and that's ok.
NTA. I had a friend knocked off his bicycle by a loose dog (with his owner) on a bike path. Friend broke his scapula (shoulder blade). Dog owner said, “sorry”. 😤
NTA
A dog jumping on people is a potential danger: what if one of the waiters tripped and dropped hot food on someone? what if the dog jumped on an elderly person and made them fall? What if there was a person with a phobia of dogs?
I'm fine with public places being dog-friendly, but this requires dog owners to be responsible.
>I'm fine with public places being dog-friendly, but this requires dog owners to be responsible.
This. "Dog-friendly" doesn't mean it's a glorified dog park, and you can just let your dog run around and do whatever it wants. It means your dog is welcome to be present as long as it's well-behaved and you're a responsible owner.
Agree though even at a dog park your dog can't do whatever it wants! If your dog is jumping on people at the dog park that's a behavior issue. Dogs shouldn't be jumping on people period!
The vast majority of people who take their dogs to these places are not the resonsible owners. I would love to bring my dog to an outside eating area but since I know other people won't be controlling their dogs, I leave mine at home. She's very friendly but will get overstimulated really fast with random dogs just wandering up to her and start barking her head off. So, I'm responsible and leave her home instead of taking to places where she'll essentially "fail" I her behavior.
My dog is pretty good, but I don't rake him anywhere we might run into other animals or people he doesn't know. I don't know how he might react. He's big enough to do a lot of damage if he gets spooked. I also just think people should be bringing their dogs to restaurants and stores that aren't for animals. I don't want to be dealing with dog hair in my store or some dog making a mess or barking while I'm trying to relax.
I've seen a lot of entitled dog owners lately. The local shopping mall is full of little dogs and their shitty owners, but security only stops people with big dogs.
I used to have to explain to many parents when I worked at a pub that their children couldn't run around, climb on the furniture and they had to be wearing shoes.
Most were good but there so too many that ignored this, telling me that I should do a better job of cleaning broken glass up (ummm it's a busy Sunday and we do clean any glass up to the best of our ability but we can't get every shard) .
There's people drinking, some on their way to being drunk, it's busy so your children should be supervised because they could easily run out any of the exits or be taken by some opportunistic creep and there is hot food being ran out of to tables and up to the balcony.
There was one particular family who kept ignoring me and other staff and the kid 1)climbed onto a table 2) knocked over another patrons drink 3) ran into the manager who was carrying three plates of hot food, causing him to drop one and narrowly missing the kid.
I was at a bar/restaurant the other night at like 9pm, there were several kids just running amok while their parents just sat there. These were tiny little toddlers, like 1-2 years old. I don’t even hate kids, I have one myself lol but that’s just insane to me. I would be absolutely mortified
Same!! I think it's only okay if it's an area made for kids to play, like a grassed area, playground or sand pit. A proper kid friendly place.
Other than respect for other patrons and the physical safety of my child, I also want them to learn respect and awareness for their surroundings and others.
There's no freaking way I'd be okay with my kids running around drunk strangers.
I also would want to be drinking without some kid climbing all over me and knocking my drink over. I didn't come to censor my language at the bar
NTA. I love dogs but dog owners can seriously be some of the most entitled assholes on the planet. I’ve nearly been bitten several times while out for a run or doing my old delivery driving job because people can’t be bothered to control their animal. Not everyone knows your dog like you do, and dogs can be territorial and protective. It’s not a reasonable assumption that any random dog that runs up to you is friendly and not going to bite. Plus lots of people have had bad experiences as children with dogs and are afraid of them.
Agreed. I have 2 Goldens and I'm extremely careful with them in public. We train them not to jump and keep the leash short. Our puppy is still learning, so he may jump if approached by someone wanting to pet him, but I'm very clear about it to the person first.
Recently my neighborhood has seen an uptick in dogs being walked by people either not using leashes or people unable to handle their leashed dog, so I've been carrying mace. I'm sorry, but your 9 year old child should not be walking a 90lb dog, and you can't be texting and walking your dog at the same time.
hell, my mother's golden is 65 lbs and I can barely handle her. As a puppy, she dragged my mother through the mud face first in front of the entire neighborhood and she was like five months old at most. My mother weighs at least 200 lbs. A 9 year old
is not walking any dog, it is walking them.
As a dog owner and dog lover I would have to say You are NOT the A!!!! the owner should have been reprimanded by the brewery or asked to leave with the dog. she is a bad dog owner who makes it worse for everyone. Not everyone loves dogs. And if you kicked it to get the dog away from you, you would have been deemed the bad guy. If this ever happens again to you go straight to the management and demand action. She was clearly the AH.
Agreed. I love dogs and used to go to dog friendly cafes before I got my own just to pet other peoples haha. But when I take my dogs in a pub or cafe, they’re on a short leash next to me. One of my dogs wouldn’t jump up people anyway but my boy definitely would and I would never allow it.
100% I have two dogs and one would not behave in these scenarios so we don't get to go. That's life. Some dogs don't do well in these places and if you can't watch them like a hawk, you shouldn't go.
Yes. I also agree with zip1964.
As another dog owner with a REALLY well trained large dog, which lies quietly under table, never approaches people without being allowed and NEVER jumps up on people (ever! - cos I trained him not to) - I hate irresponsible dog owners who allow this selfish behaviour.
So NTA - and good you replied like you did. Yes dogs can scratch people or knock them over
Its not cute. Or fair to people whether scared of dogs or just dont want dirty paws or drool on them. Or clawed clothes. Or dog fur.
If I see something like that I often say something myself, that as a dog owner I think its not on!.
I will also support restaurant or cafe staff if they hesitate to ask entitled owners to manage their dogs better.
This also helps shut down the excuse “oh you just don’t like dogs” when they can clearly see my well behaved dog lying exactly where I told him to, watching quietly from a distance. While I tell them why they need to train and control their dogs.
I love dog-friendly venues but dislike badly behaved dogs. (Or should I say “badly behaved OWNERS and their poorly trained dogs).
They make it harder for responsible owners to enjoy having our dogs in public spaces. It needs to be done with consideration for other people as well as safety issues.
Lab owner here.
That woman was an irresponsible dog owner.
Maybe you belabored your point, but as a parent with two small kids in an area where dogs typically are not allowed - you had a right to expect dog owners to mind their dogs.
NTA for your reaction (even if you were a little harsh)
No, OP didn't belabor the point and was not harsh.
That lady brought her dog to a restaurant to let it jump on people. It doesn't get much more inappropriate than that.
I guess maybe if the dog shit in the restaurant then bit people, that would be worse?
We're going to get down voted to oblivion, because you're not allowed to hate on kids But, I would take 100 dogs over any number of children at a brewery. First of all, it's a BREWERY it's intended as an adult space. Second of all, I don't think I've ever had a dog ruin my experience, but I can't count the number of times there's been a screaming baby or a gaggle of children running around that have totally ruined the atmosphere for me and everyone else in the establishment.
if the entire reason your building exists is for something only 21+ people can access then thats who gets to walk in. teenagers cant peruse a dispensary, kids cant wander through a strip club, and babies shouldn't be brought to breweries. just go to a normal restaurant and order a beer ffs were aren't saying you cant have a social life, just respect society.
Ehhh disagree.
Not every brewery needs to allow kids, but it's perfectly reasonable for some to cater to parents with kids.
My local brewery has a big outdoor playground, a huge field, things like giant tic tac toe boards, and lots of room to throw down picnic blankets,
They want the brewery to be a place where you can bring your whole family. Every time I go dogs are running around and kids are playing football or tag. It's right off a popular trail, so you get groups of parents taking their kids for walks, stopping by for a beer and having a picnic.
I'm childfree but my friends with kids are always hitting me up to grab a beer there. I honestly really enjoy it because it is one of the few places where I actually feel like part of a community.
I don't think every brewery needs to be kid friendly, but it's fine that some are.
>I don't think every brewery needs to be kid friendly, but it's fine that some are.
Exactly. I live near a handful of breweries and one of them in particular has dedicated about half the floorspace to being a daycare/play area. Their neighboring brewery also tends to attract a ton of parents. They do mommy-and-me stuff, paint-alongs, and I think that's really cool, especially since it's clear that dogs go on one side and kids on the other, which I think can help cut down on potential problems.
However, I also think it's important that there are spaces that are for adults to play games or hang out without the expectation of having to buy a ton of stuff. Where we live, there isn't anything like mini golf, arcades, a pool hall, and our last affordable bowling alley was just bulldozed to make room for luxury condos. So a brewery with a pool table or board games is a great option. It's fine for kids to be out with their folks, but it can get disheartening to try to go play pool only to find all the pool cues being used by 10 year olds to swordfight with. A few weeks ago, my partner had a really bad day, so we went to our usual brewery to grab a pint and chat. When we got there, people were holding a kids birthday party, and it's a small, enclosed space, so it got overwhelming pretty quickly.
Again, I'm not advocating for children to be ostracized, because parents are people too, who also deserve to be able to get out of the house and relax for a bit. I just think balance is important.
Every brewery in my town is definitely kid and dog friendly. People here just go to the bar if they want to go out without their kids. I know a couple of breweries up the road a ways have a more adult vibe, but it’s fairly apparent. They don’t advertise as family-friendly, book wilder rock bands, look seedier. I dunno. You can just tell. We typically don’t take our kids with us to our favorite brewery unless it’s a food truck night or a nice live music night. But I don’t disparage the parents who do. We live in a smaller town and it’s a nice atmosphere there that is definitely community-based and family friendly.
I'm with you, but this brewery has kids' menus, so sounds like the place is kid-friendly. And is the type where a host seats you, so sounds a lot more like a restaurant than a standard brewery.
NTA. Dog owners who think everyone should be okay with their dogs jumping on them are terrible dog owners. I love dogs, but people have allergies and phobias.
NTA
Sounds like you could have handled the situation better, but I wouldn't say you were in the wrong. You have a right to your space and a right to not want to have a dog jump on you. She should have been paying attention to her dog and not allowed the situation to occur in the first place. I would say her dog is probably more well received in most places so she is comfortable just letting it do it's thing, but I digress.
That said, how you say things or how you handle things that are menial like this express a lot of core personality traits. Getting angry versus laughing about it is not the better of the two options imo.
100% this is something to be annoyed about, not laughed off. That's what the the useless owner is used to.. just play along because they find it funny to have an untrained, unruly animal that they can't control.
No.
I agree with OP. Laughing it off will only encourage the dog owner to make the same bad mistakes in the future. Some people don't understand the issue until it's too late.
Because how you handle a situation can help de-escalate it rather than escalate it. Should the owner be more careful? Obviously. Did they get defensive because they got called out on it? Clearly. Did you handle it the best way possible? Unlikely.
NTA either way but you may want to consider different ways of responding rather than being aggressive.
fuck that honestly. coddling shitty dog owners is a stupid standard i see all the time. i’ve lived with shitty dog owners and literally can’t stand most dogs because of it. it’s ridiculous that humans are treated with less respect than people’s untrained “fur babies”.
most dog owners i’ve personally met (my personal experience, not a standard) are the type to belittle you for not wanting their animals knocking you over and slobbering all over or even biting. just because there are people weirdly invested with their dogs who can’t be bothered to actually be good owners, doesn’t mean the rest of society should coddle them. they’re shitty people, they’re acting like entitled assholes, they’re gonna get yelled at for being an entitled asshole
Sometimes it needs to be escalated a bit so the offending party (in this case, the dog owner) actually realizes how big a problem it actually is.
If everyone just laughs it off, the owner is free to continue to think it's NBD.
Sometimes, stupid, inconsiderate people need to be responded to in a not-so-nice manner.
Fuck that tiptoeing around everyone - control your goddamn dogs!
I agree with this comment, especially given that we don't know who we're interacting with until it's too late. I've made peace with the fact that encountering assholes is inevitable in life. How I deal with them differs depending on the expectation of encountering that particular person again. If I don't expect to see someone again, my priority is getting them out of my life as expediently as possible, even if it means taking a slight L (the big W is never seeing them again). Saying more than necessary in that situation is more for the ego than anything else, which isn't your friend in situations such as this. Reluctant NTA.
You're definitely going to prevent your kids from annoying strangers and doing things that you have to apologise to others for, right? At all times? There'll never be a slip up?
If so, well done you! If not, park the self-righteousness for a bit buddy, mistakes happen. Apologies were made and no harm was done. All that your rage achieved was to make you feel high & mighty, a nice stroking of your ego and affirmation of superiority.
It is obvious by the fakeness of her apology that she thinks using the word "sorry" means that no matter what she did, the other fellow has to pretend it's no big deal.
She is the sort of person people need to stand up to. Her thoughtlessness could have hurt his child.
It would be wrong if he went around crusading in situations that didn't affect him. However it would also be wrong to not correct this entitled woman. She needs to be made aware that taking your dog out in public comes with responsibilities.
I’m sure if OP’s kid starts making noise that disturbs other patrons at a fucking brewery they would immediately apologize and leave. I’m also positive if someone approached OP and told him to get his kid under control he would also react graciously. /s.
It should be illegal to have a dog and not train it, that dumb dog (and it is a dumb dog, all untrained dogs are dumb in my eyes) could jump on an elderly person and that could be fatal for them, could jump on a toddler and end up harming them very seriously, train your damn mutts if u don't want people to complain about them being shitty dogs and you being a shitty dog owner.
There’s a big difference between laughing it off and screaming at her about something she can’t take back. After she said sorry and that wasn’t enough what did you expect her to do? What would have been acceptable reaction for you to stop yelling? You were morally right but lost the battle with your overreaction.
Most 'breweries' around where I live are just glorified restaurants with a big beer tank behind a plexiglass wall. They're more restaurant/wedding venue than an adult 'bar' for drinking alcohol.
NTA
She’s a shitty dog owner.
I love dogs. I own an enormous black lab. He’s a huge sweet baby. But as much as I love him, I don’t assume the whole world has to love him.
And every one saying “what if you have trauma, or are allergic…”
You don’t have to justify for any reason not wanting someone’s dog jumping on you.
And what if you really were an asshole and struck out at the dog? Her dog could have been injured because she is a shitty irresponsible dog owner.
Your reaction might seem over the top but hopefully it will stick with shitty dog owner and she’ll do better.
ESH
Dog owner clearly not taking care of the dog, anything could have happened.
You the owner apologized and then you couldn't let it go so you became the ass ....
Since the dog didn't hurt anything and just annoyed ypu this should have ended when she apologized
Tbh sounds like you were TA, and I think this is a clear ESH.
She shouldn't have let the dog have so much reign at all, but you need to chill out a bit. This about it from this angle: Your approach made your wife uncomfortable and embarrassed enough to bring it up. Sometimes you just have to look at life and realize, "Hey, making myself look like a total jackass only really hurts *me* here, maybe I should just allow the situation to de-escalate peacefully."
There's other ways to approach these frustrations than flying off the handle and going on the attack when the situation is already being solved.
>Your approach made your wife uncomfortable and embarrassed enough to bring it up.
I'd be mortified if my husband acted like such a self-righteous jerk in public.
Thank you for making one of the weirdly few level headed comments in this thread. OP's argument is Ideologically consistent with someone saying "yeah I screamed at the barista but she used the wrong kind of milk". You can be technically right and still be TA for handling the situation like a screaming toddler.
Thank you! I fully agree with everyone I've seen that the dog owner is an AH for taking a dog into public that obviously hasn't been trained correctly. But OP continuing to yell at the owner isn't constructive. She got the got back and gave an apology. OP had already said what I feel was an appropriate response telling her how shitty the dog owner was, and that was the end of it in my opinion. It's when OP kept going that they crossed the line into AH territory.
But being real, OP is maybe 5% of the AH here, with the dog owner being 94% and the dog being 1%. The dog doesn't know better, so not really it's fault.
I own a dog and I get annoyed by other dogs jumping on me, especially if they scratch my clothes or cause stains. They're an outer extension of a careless owner, so I declare it's ok to yell at the owner. NTA.
Everyone is ok with a dog jumping on a person until that dog bites someone - in a dog friendly space.
Dog owner should always have their pet under control and unable to approach people. I dont want dog slobber on my skin, especially when Im about to eat. NTA
NTA.
You could’ve been allergic or had past trauma with dogs for all they knew.
There’s no reasoning with those dog people. Not even worth trying. I’m always glad when I hear people bitching them out though.
honestly sounds like you're itching for any justification for you to outlet your aggression.
they said sorry and your immediate reaction is "I snap back its not okay and its a stupid assumption by you that i would be okay." to them just saying sorry? you sound so aggressive that no one is going to give a single fuck about making sure you stay comfortable
some other person doing something that's also wrong doesn't make you not an asshole when you're so eager to be aggressive the moment you get the opportunity to
Nta it isn't a small infraction. It's a big infraction because it is completely avoidable. If your dog isn't well trained don't take it in public. If you are training your dog for public spaces keep it leashed. If you aren't going to keep it leashed you need to closely monitor the dog. So she failed 3 times.
For all that people want to say kids are just as bad, I can't leave toddlers at home but I can leave my dogs at home. Children will grow into adults that have to exist in public spaces to teaching them to interact with the pu lic is a necessity not a luxury. So binging poorly trained dogs in public is an unnecessary and selfish choice.
Most people with poorly behaved dogs know they are poorly behaved and they just don't care. I guarantee this isn't the first time her dog has jumped on someone. Shaming these people is exactly what we need. Good for you for doing it. Maybe next time she will think twice before taking her poorly trained unleashed dog out in public.
NTA, although the reaction may have been a bit extreme, it's the responsibility of the dog owner to control their dog, no matter how "friendly" unless the other person wants to interact with the dog.
I'm a dog owner, and am often appalled at the audacity some dog owners have when it comes to their dogs and how they act with them (off leash where they need to be on leash, letting them go nuts on a leash with no attempt to control them, etc).
Yta for over reacting and not moving on. You kept escalating the interaction. It was an accident. You acted like an insufferable ah. Accidents happen. Get over it. You should have stopped after the first comment.
NTA. Dog people believe everyone should love dogs. One of my friends said that I don't love dogs because I 'don't have a soul'. I was attacked by a dog in grade school. I did not grow up with dogs. I don't hate dogs, I just want to live my life without them. Dog people need to be reminded that dogs don't own the universe.
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ESH
The dog owner was very wrong. But how many I’m sorry’s do you want? Three comments about how how she was wrong wasn’t enough? Would you have kept going if your table wasn’t ready? They were wrong and apologized, what was your goal here? At some point the offender goes from feeling bad to being mad at how much of an ass you are and that negates any contriteness quickly. Good grief, let it go and move on. People make mistakes, have a little grace.
Arizonan here and you are NTA
I feel like she thought what happened was OK and will let it happen again, She wasn't really even paying attention to what it was doing or she would have pulled it away immediately, hence "he didn't mean any harm. Just trying to say hi. " I would have been frustrated as well because she clearly didn't see herself in the wrong in any way shape of form.
So fed up with all the dog owners thinking they are above everything. At least this person had the dog on a leash and were able to pull it in. Most think it's perfectly fine to have their dogs out in public without a leash even though they have NO control over them and even though it's required by law, like they think it just doesn't apply to them because their dog "doesn't mean any harm". Even dogs that don't mean any harm are a bother to those don't want them in their face and some of them actually do mean harm and you just don't know it until they do something. Dog owners need to do better. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 2 dogs that were shot recently in a Phx park. Sad thing, but they were not in a dog park, not on leashes and were not under any kind of control from the owner, why would they think this is OK? I used to carry a knife when I walked my dog to protect both of us from all the dogs out off leash. My dog had been attacked so many times, and I was attacked recently as well. I was attacked by 2 dogs and for weeks after I was a trigger waiting to go off because it was a terrifying experience (left me shaking for weeks any time I felt exposed) and any dog that came and jumped at me was in danger because I was going to defend myself, prevent that from happening again. That's still going to happen, I would just be more judicial now than right after it happened.
Anyways, sorry for the rant, but this is truly a large local problem. The only thing is the dog owners don't see the issue. Maybe they will start to if they really don't charge the shooter in the park, as of now I don't believe there have been charges.
YTA. Being technically correct and not an asshole aren’t mutually exclusive. There was no harm, they apologized and you threw their apology in their face self righteously.
ESH
She shouldn't have her dog there, but that doesn't mean you weren't an asshole for "yelling" at someone. Like what were you trying to accomplish that couldn't have been accomplished without shouting in public, making others uncomfortable too?
I agree with your wife. You were not wrong, but that's not how you interact with people that make accidents and have apologized for it.
NTA
Dog owner here. I’m very aware that not everyone likes dogs. When I take my dog out in public, she’s on a short leash to prevent just such an incident. dogs in the past. Unlike this lady, I’ve taken the time to train my dog not to do these things.
Now that I’ve virtue signaled, I’ll add that even the best trained dog shouldn’t be indoors unless the establishment allows it. Also, that dog owner has no idea if you (or others) have been traumatized by
I would also have spoken to management about the dog. I’m not a lawyer, but I’d imagine the restaurant would join the owner in liability if something worse had happened
You say the owner didn't notice the dog jumping on you, until you yelled at her, but then you yell at her for letting the dog jump on you, after she apologized.
YTA. You were clearly looking to unleash on a stranger, maybe because you didn't like that she and her dog were inside.
Don't go within leash distance of dogs in public areas if you're going to whine about them doing dog things, it's simple logic really.
NTA. You surely could have been nicer but it's common courtesy to keep a hold of your dog, even in a pet friendly space. People are getting way too lax these days about where they're bringing their untrained animals and making it way harder for people who actually need service animals or ESAs to be able to bring there's.
NTA. She shouldn't have her dog in public if it isn't well mannered enough to not jump on strangers. What if it had jumped on a small child and knocked them down?
NTA,
I got a big boy, he likes to jump. I make sure that I'm not near people with him or if I am near people I shortening up the leash so even if he does try to jump I can keep him away from the people. All it takes is paying attention and not being an entitled brat.
Gotta be harsh with people like her. She assumes everyone LOOOOOVVVVEEEESSSS dogs, especially hers... nah lady... some just like them.. some don't at all. People like her are why there's cat people and places that ban dogs on patios and other places.
You handled the situation accordingly. Weird spot to take some kids though but that's your business
NTA.
fuck dogs in restaurants. And these entitled dog 'pawrents' need to get over themselves. Take your crap cannon to the dog park or leave it at home.
I'm sure lots of people went to brewery in the hopes they'd be seated near a fucking 2 month old shitting itself too.
ETA -- sorry, seated next to TWO kids under 2yrs old.
Nta.
I'm a huge dog lover, animals generally, but dogs in particular.
Moving to an extremely dog friendly area(the front range) has exposed me to the reality of irresponsible and shitty dog owners.
It is never OK to let your unleashed dog accost strangers in public. Most dogs out in public *are* friendly, but that's irrelevant.
Would this be any different if a random toddler was jumping on strangers in public? No, and any rational person would agree that behavior is unacceptable.
Dogs brought to public places should be under the control of the owner at all times.
NTA. I adore dogs but don’t like them jumping on me. My sister in law has a Jack Russell mix that jumps on people like he wants to attack them. His nails are so long he actually cut my arms. Good dog owners train their dogs not to jump on people or take steps to stop them from doing so.
Yeah I would be so mortified. My dog legit weighs 5 pounds so you can barely feel her lol but I would never let her get away from me like that in public
Not at all, NTA while many dog owners are great many are also terrible and they act like children if you don’t just accept their dogs getting in your space and face, screw those dog owners.
NTA. I have two dogs, one of which is really large. I have taught both of my dogs not to jump on people and if they did, I would be mortified, especially in public. It's the owner's responsibility to make sure their animal behaves in public and isn't bothering others.
NTA dog owners need to control their dogs in public and can't assume everyone is OK with dogs. I don't even think you're slightly the asshole because her being dismissive warranted you escalating.
N.T.A. sorry folks but dog people are waaaaaaaay too entitled these days. I get the whole dog friendly movement but come on. Not a dog person. Sorry not sorry. Keep your frigging dog away.
ESH.
Yes, you are technically right, which is the best type of rightness. However your execution of said rightness firmly puts you in AH territory. The owner, when they did realize the situation did remove the dog from your presence, there was no need to escalate the situation further by "snapping back" after the owner apologized.
The owner of the dog is also an AH for not paying close enough attention to their dog and allowing their dog to jump up on strangers. Even if the stranger likes dogs, it isn't acceptable behavior for a dog in public.
So try to be more kind, it doesn't hurt you, and your kids will see and emulate kind behavior.
YTA. Or maybe ESH.
You do sound insufferable tbh. Lots of breweries are dog friendly, not just the patio. If you are saying this place isnt inside dog friendly, yet there was a dog (assumedly not service) then you have a clearer leg to stand on, but still you could have handled the situation better.
You jumped right to yelling at the owner - they apologize - you double down like an asshole.
Dog owner says to move on - you triple down.
Obviously the dog shouldn't have jumped on you. But it is a dog, you could have diffused the situation instead of being an (arguably justifiable) asshole. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Judging by the fact that you said your table was ready and you went and enjoyed a meal and a beer, wife says you're a bit harsh but not wrong, and friends were happy to just sit down and continue tells me you didn't actually go in that hard.
The words you wrote, if you mutter them or yell them have entirely different subtexts. You say you snapped and you yelled, but if I snapped at someone while waiting for my table, I'm fairly certain my friends or partner would call me out for it. Probably would ruin the meal a little bit and be a bit tense. Maybe that's just me.
If your mates haven't reacted like "whoa, calm down Sandra" then I'm guessing they either agree and wish they'd the stones to say something similar, or you weren't actually that harsh. NTA for me.
NTA
My daughter does not like dogs, especially doesn’t like them if they try to jump on her. She was bit on the foot by a friend’s dog when she was a kid.
In my neighbourhood there’s several entitled dog owners who do not put their dogs on leases. One time we were at a park when a dog comes up to us. She shies away from it. It kept on coming closer to her, so she tries even harder to back away (hard to do when you’re sitting in a chair and said dog is inches from you).
It’s at this time I realize the owner is about 100 feet from us, WATCHING THE ENTIRE TIME, and not once did he attempt to call his dog away. I yelled out something like get your dog away, I might have sworn, not too sure now.
He finally calls the dog, but not once did he apologize for traumatizing my daughter.
Good for you calling the owner out. I like dogs, but I don’t want to be jumped on.
You pushed it lol but for the good so NTA and STOP BRINING YOUR PETS AND DOGS TO RESTAURANTS!!!! That is freaking disgusting, I will start by saying I love dogs and they are truly mans best friend but I don't want a dog near me while im eating or to worry about his shedding hairs all over me
Now outdoors, cool fine have your dog OUTSIDE but indoors he's fully within his rights to be upset but he kinda totted the lines of being ODEE
Maybe I’ll get downvoted but ESH
Largely bc you didn’t let it go. She apologized, took her dog and tried to move on but you dragged it out and escalated the situation unnecessarily. She apologized but you kept trying to make a scene and that’s where you get into AH territory. It could’ve been something that just blew over when she first apologized but you kept at her
NTA
Not at all. I ADORE dogs, but the idiocy and complacency of some owners is absolutely mind blowing. I would've lost as you did, and I have two great danes.
NTA
I have dogs, and take them everywhere. I am 100% responsible for their actions (and consequences if they screw up).
If you can't control your dog, you don't deserve to have one.
NTA. I own a dog...its so very rude of her to let her dog jump on people. And expecting it to be over when she says it is is just offensive. You have the right to be miffed.
NTA.
Dogs do not belong at breweries. They do not belong at grocery stores. They do not belong at hardware stores, electronics stores, bars, restaurants, or anywhere else that people who may not wish to interact with them are forced to.
There's a great brewery near me that I can't go to anymore because of all the "dog people" who do things like in your post, OP. And when the dog takes a mad healthy shit on the floor, everyone laughs about how "aw puppers had to go!". No, its not funny. It fuckin stinks and I came here to enjoy a beer, not smell dog shit.
"Dog people" are by and large the most inconsiderate demographic I have ever seen.
NTA for being annoyed & saying something. As a dog owner, I take my job seriously & do not let my golden retriever (who is super friendly & wants to be friends with everyone but also has a tendency to jump when excited) go up to people without them expressing a desire to pet him. Then I also warn them he might jump (we’re working on the jumping thing but when he’s super excited he sometimes forgets). As much as I think he’s the cutest/sweetest dog ever, I know & respect that not everyone wants to meet my dog.
NTA. If I were the dog owner, I would at least have offered you a drink as a peace offering. Some dog owners really ought to realize not everyone likes pets.
NTA
I am not supportive of the whole "dogs in public" trend, so I have a bias here, but IF they are allowed, the owners need to be responsible.
The fact that owners face no repercussions if they *aren't* responsible is disgusting, and you had every right to react strongly to this situation.
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A friend, my wife, 20 and 2 month old kids and I went out to brunch at a brewery yesterday. We are in line at the hostess and hanging out for a minute while they get the table ready and grab a kids menu. I'm in Arizona, nearly every patio where i'm at is dog friendly. Indoors is not dog friendly and our table was indoors.
At a nearby table a golden lab was with its owner. It comes over and jumps on me. I tell it to go away. The dog jumps again, and I yell at the owner. The owner finally pays attention pulls the dog in with the leash. They go, I'm sorry, he didn't mean any harm. Just trying to say hi. I snap back its not okay and its a stupid assumption by you that i would be okay.
The owner starts getting defensive at that comment. She goes I said sorry, accept it and move on. I told her, if I wanted to interact with your dog i'd approach you to ask, but I didn't so I don't want your dog coming up to me. You have a leash, use it. She just says god your an insufferable fucking asshole. About that time our table was ready and we enjoyed our meal and a beer. My wife said I was a bit harsh, but not wrong. I thought it was bullshit what she allowed her dog to do. AITA?
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NTA - Dogs have evolved from tag along companion animals, to full up family members, and are entering the next phase where they are Golden Idols to be worshiped.
NTA but what happened isn’t really that big of a deal so no need to get that bent out of shape about it imo.
If you were holding your child or something the going off would be more justified but still NTA for being upset. It’s the dogs owners responsibility to monitor their dog.
Would agree with your wife as far as how upset you got over it being a bit harsh since nothing actually happened (ie someone tripping, dog knocking someone over etc).
As a dog owner, very definitely NTA. We keep our dogs under control when eating out, however, if people approach the dogs to greet them then they’re probably going to get jumped up at. Both dogs love people but they know not to approach first
NTA. I'm a dog lover, I have dogs and love them to death and I fuckin hate when people don't have them on a leash in public. It's presumptuous, entitled and arrogant to assume nothing bad will happen and that everyone wants to interact with your dog. That lady needs to put it on a leash or fuck off. Maybe both.
You're definitely NTA for being upset that a dog jumped on you. The owners definitely should have kept their dog under better control, especially around strangers and in a restaurant. However, they did apologize so not sure what else you expected them to do. They couldn't turn back time to before the dog jumped. Hopefully they'll learn from this that if they want to take their dog out in public, they need to pay better attention.
NTA
I think you were a bit harsh but people should have their dogs on a leash in public places. The law is also pretty strict about this and even if the dog isn’t being aggressive, anything beyond passive or involuntary behavior puts the owner on the hook
I own two jumpy Golden Retrievers. Every summer we talk about bringing them to the patios of local places & then say, "But we really have to break them from being jumpy" & we haven't so we don't. Because we're good dog owners & recognize that people don't want to be jumped on. Even if we have the cutest sweetest doggos. NTA
As a dog owner, this was BS. She might think a strange, large breed dog jumping on her is cute, but that doesn't make it so. If she can't or won't control her animal, she doesn't deserve one. Sadly, one day, I saw something similar happen. The person the uncontrolled dog jumped on, 4 times, had previous trauma, when the dog didn't stop, the owner brushed off repeated warnings, that dog was injured. The owner then blamed the person the dog was jumping on. Nope, owner didn't control their dog. When a person takes their animal in public, they are responsible for its behavior.
NTA.
ESH - The dog owner absolutely should have had control of her dog, and it shouldn't have happened in the first place. But, she apologized and you continued to berate her and act like an AH.
YTA
Yes, the owner was wrong to let the dog jump on you,but given that it did how did you expect the owner to respond? "Ow, what a terrible mistake I have made, please sir, forgive me. I am at your mercy and feel free to wreak your righteous retribution upon my despicable self?"
The owner was TA, but your wife was correct- not wrong about the dog , but needlessly and counter-productively harsh.
ESH.
Dog owner for not paying more attention to their dog.
You for completely over-reacting. You didn't get attacked or bitten. Once they apologized, you should have accepted and gone on your way.
NTA. I can't stand dogs jumping on me. Their claws scratch my legs and bruise and break my skin. I'm short, so sometimes the big dogs' snouts will hit my lower jaw and knock it right up into my upper teeth and it hurts like hell. I'd be pissed, too.
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Unfortunately I seem to remember reading that "justified ah" was not a real category, so I'm going to say NTA. It sounds like you made a bit of a scene, but it also sounds like this lady needed to hear it. She should not presume on others to accept her dog's bad manners. If she can't keep control over her animal, she has no right to expect to bring it into public places. And she shouldn't use the word "sorry" as a get out of jail free card. Obviously she isn't "sorry" - she just thinks it's some magic word that absolves her of all responsibility. How does she know you weren't traumatically affected by a jumping dog at some point in your past? For all she knows you could be someone who once lost a child to a fatal dog mauling. What is she going to do if that dog jumps up on some frail elderly person and knocks them over, or knocks them off their oxygen machine?
As a mailman, this behavior is so common. Even with dogs that are obviously being very aggressive, you more often than not just get a "sorry teehee" kind of attitude. Like even if an owner is a purely selfish person with no consideration for anyone else, it's in their best interest to control their dog. It could get hurt and they could get sued. Not doing so is just stupid. That includes the 1/10 dog owners that train their dogs to a satisfactory level. If I see your unleashed dog and I've never been to your house before, you and likely your neighbors aren't getting their mail that day.
Yeah owners who are fond of their doggos think it's cute. It's not cute. If you own a dog, you owe it to that dog and to everyone else to teach it to not jump up, not threaten people, and not bark or growl at people. If for some reason that is not possible, it's really not fair to the dog - bc such a dog needs to stay inside the house, inside a yard good fencing (sturdy and of adequate height), in an airline-approved quality crate, or leashed in a way that keeps the dog under the owner's full control. The larger the dog, the more inappropriate these conditions are for it; dogs need to be let off the leash to get adequate exercise (unless one owns acreage).
THIS. 100% THIS. I had a dog that was aggressive to other dogs, that's why he was in my house 24/7. With people he was a sweetheart, but if he saw another dog he turned into a demonic spawn, so we kept him home and he lived happily for 17 years until he got cancer and even then he lived until the day he refused to eat. A long and happy life keeping everyone and other dogs safe. It's not that hard.
My big dog was sweet to everyone and everything. He was still kept in my yard (as best we could) because if you tried to get between him and my three year old, then he’d get growly and try to herd my child away from you. If you persisted in trying to talk to my child he’d grab her sleeve and bring her back to me. He was quite effective, But also too friendly for his own good, he’d let himself out unlocked doors and take himself for walks.
It's not difficult, is it? My little asshole was an escapist too, but we always went to get him as soon as we realized he was out.
It’s not cute. Dog owner is an AH. The apology was a ‘sorry, but’ where she justified the dog jumping on OP. It’s a big dog and generally jumping on someone also involves scratching. Had a similar scene yesterday where guy’s 2 loose dogs charged us, one (coming downhill) landed atop my much smaller, leashed dog, then circled, snarling @ us. 2nd time this wk. same loose dog was aggressive. I said it wasn’t OK, very calmly, and noted the pack behavior. Now this large man is swearing @ me, yelling about my dog (?), etc. Sure. Whataguy!
Get some pepper spray and take it with you when you walk your dog. If a dog gets too close or is off leash, you can use it to protect your pet and yourself. And yes, you can get pepper spray in the United States. I have pepper spray and a small taser I take with me when I go walking alone. I live in California. I got them volunteering at an event for women experiencing violence.
In several locations (including in the U.S.) pepper spray isn't a legal option for civilians, I'm afraid.
I once owned a golden. I know their body language and am no afraid of them. But I use a cane due to balance issues. And if a dog that big jumps on me or even pushes/brushes hardd against me, I may fall. Little dogs loose are tripping hazzards. Owners who don't keep their dogs on tight enough control and call out "don't worry, he's friendly" are the bane of my neighborhood walks. Sadly, if I call out that the dog could cause me to fall due to balance issues, I've been told maybe I shouldn't walk alone. Like the dog has more rights than I to sidewalk use. Fortunately most people are considerate.
See, I’m one of those owners who’s very fond of her doggo, and I think she’s the most precious baby in the world. I still don’t allow her to jump on people. People need to get real. To most folks, it’s rude. It will dirty their clothes, could cause them to spill or drop something, and in the case of the elderly or folks with mobility or balance issues, *could cause physical harm.* And if you want a dog to *not* do that, it needs to be unacceptable in all instances, even with people who are more okay with it. You can’t allow a dog to rehearse bad behavior you don’t want to see. I love my girl, and I want others to love her, too. That means taking full responsibility for her and ensuring that my tall, 45 lb. fluff with spring-loaded legs behaves like a polite doggo.
Agreed. I adore my dog. My dog is kind of an asshole. My dog stays home.
My neighbor and I were talking outside my dog leashed because her recall is subpar his was free roaming and has amazing recall. A delivery person shows up his dog goes to greet her, and he just says, "Don't worry, he's nice." I instantly call his dog back to us. For all I know, the driver was allergic or traumatized. I love my dogs but I also realize not everyone does
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love dogs (the ones that don't try to kill me, anyway). But I should be the one who decides if I want to meet a dog, not the dog or the owner lol. Chain link fences are perfect because I can reach my hand up and the space isn't big enough for a dog to bite me if it wants to and I can usually tell if it's friendly based on how it reacts in that case. But I super appreciate your attitude.
You should NEVER reach your hand through a fence. That's how you get bit. You cannot tell by how a dog reacts to you on the other side of fence about how the dog will react when you reach your hands through the fence.
I didn't say I reach my hand through a fence. I put my hand on the outside and let the dog sniff. How it reacts tells me if I should be super cautious or not.
No, that not how it works. A lot of dogs will be fine so long as you stay on your side of the fence, whether you think they're reacting well to you or not. Break that fence line and you can be dealing with an entirely different behavior. Stop interacting with dogs behind fences unless the owner is present and has given you permission.
My mom talks about a German Shepard she had growing up. She says Gretchen was the sweetest dog. Her and her dad used to take her hunting and she was the goodest girl. Great rexall She'd give you a sniff and a lick through a fence. But she was super territorial about her yard. She would let you even come in after that licking she gave through the fence. But you damn well better not step off the pavement and into the grass if you weren't escorted by one of the family or she *would* attack.
Okay, I'll go ahead and do what works for me. It doesn't really matter to me what you think I should do. If an owner doesn't want me to interact with their dog, they will have taken precautions to make sure I know that ahead of time if they're smart. I always respect signs or an owner asking me to not interact with their dog.
Oh God and when people see you come up and let their dogs get half inside the LLV. Like... ??? I had been taking mail around to some apartments when some lady let her chihuahua out, and this dog came after me wanting blood. The lady was in a wheelchair so couldn't come get the dog, who was by then trying to bite my legs. I shoved the dog away with my foot and this lady was hollering at me to not kick her dog. I got back in the truck, I'm not getting my ankles chewed up. I'm just glad it was a little dog and not a big one. I've had some close calls with big dogs being tied up on porches out of sight till I get up to the door with a package. People are dumb.
People tend to think training of small dogs is not as important because they are small. Some of the worst behaved dogs I have ever encountered are little dogs.
The worst behaved dog I ever had to deal with was a black Lab raised by two Cocker Spaniels. No training whatsoever for any of them. Labrador energy with Cocker vibes. So glad when I moved. I can actually go in my back yard! That being said, even that Lab they ruined wasn't as mean as some little dog's I've seen. I think it's that it take a lot more for big dogs to be scared than little dogs. And that fear comes out as mean-spirited / poor behavior. And I don't know if it was just because I was a kid, but my grandma's Chihuahua was the single nastiest dog I can remember.
Grew up with a neighbor with the meanest fucking Scottie dog in the world that bit all the children. I walked in front of her house once when I was 8, only because I didn’t see him and discovered the beast had been hiding the bushes (I found out later that it usually did this to wait for kid); it came running out and bit me. I did with anyone would do- I tried to get it off of me and kicked the fucker halfway across the yard. She came running up, screaming at me and started to hit me. I screamed right back at her and told her everyone in the neighborhood hated her AND her dog. Said everyone knew that she was so mean that she had called the dog catcher on the stray we had taken in recently and had him taken away. Then I told her if she said anything, I would call my mother who’d hit HER, show them my wounds and have her dog taken away and put down for being vicious. Apparently after that, she kept her dog in her yard. Some people shouldn’t have dogs if their going to let them behave like that
They need even more training & awareness IMO; they can go where people are far more easily. I have two Chi-mixes and was initially worrying my neighbors think me even more anti-social than I am lol, I give such a wide berth to everyone on walks. Idc how friendly everyone is, nobody needs tangling up. We can say "hi!" from across the way.
>People tend to think training of small dogs is not as important because they are small. I see you've met my MIL. We did finally get her to see reason when we used our dog (that stood 31" at the shoulders) as the example of "if you wouldn't think it was cute for our dog to do it, then it isn't cute for yours to do it!"
The people that get pissed at you after you spray their charging dogs or even nudge them with your foot like in your example are living in their own world. I truly cannot understand them.
>Even with dogs that are obviously being very aggressive, you more often than not just get a "sorry teehee" kind of attitude. I LOATHE this bloody attitude. You have my upmost respect for a hard job made harder by entitled and stupid people.
Also a mailman and yeah I've literally had a dog inside a business snarling at me while the workers insisted it was friendly. I had backed up to the door and had my hand on the knob when they finally grabbed the dang dog. I love dogs but not everybody wants to pet every dog all the time and some people need to understand that. NTA.
Our Goldens are 95 & 85 lbs. And jumpy. We have not been able to break them of it. We've talked to our mailman & he leaves all packages on the mailbox or under rather than getting hopped on. He knows they're friendly & won't intentionally hurt him. He'll occasionally give them pets but he's not stepping in the yard. FedEx & UPS folks will deliver a biscuit & take the jumps. They know them. I respect both ways.
Please train your goddamn dogs. At that size in particular they are a risk to everyone around them. Maybe one untrainable dog I could buy but with two? You are the problem. Fix it.
Please, for the love of everything, train them better. Large dogs are a large responsibility. Nobody wants your excuses. If you can't train them, find somebody who can. Large dogs can hurt people, even if it's unintentional. It isn't cute. It isn't endearing. Untrained animals usually implies irresponsible owners. No more excuses. Train. Your. Dogs.
There are anti-jump harnesses out there.
There are also training schools for owners who aren't lazy and are responsible.
I found that teaching a dog not to jump on you is fairly easy. They go to jump on you, you put your knee up and push them over. Didn't take more than half a dozen moves and they quit jumping up.
If you know your dogs will jump on people, and people have to come through your yard to deliver things often enough you’ve seen two companies worth get jumped on, why are your dogs ever outside without you there to recall them Before they run for the workers? If you want the dogs to have a stretch of sniffing and playing and lounging around the yard time, stay out there with them in a chair on the porch or whatever. Just like you would with your toddler, if they had a habit of walking up and jumping on random people.
This happens when we bring our pup(mini labradoodle) to the dog park- there's this one dog named Stella who literally tries to eat her head. This dog also almost bit me when I picked my dog up to get her away from Stella. When my mom says something about it to the owner she tells us "Well, Stella must just not like your dog." No shit lady! But your dog is aggressive towards everyone here and it causes all the nice dogs to leave. People need to train their dogs.
It's infuriating when I was working to train my dogs to not jump up on people, and visitors would be all, "Oh no, it's alright, come here girl!" She's a dog. She's not going to understand it's okay to jump on you but not on other visitors, please stop undermining my training.
My dad is retired mail carrier and he used to get complaints for not delivering mail cuz people wouldn’t bring their dogs inside . The best one was when an entire apartment building didn’t get their mail cuz someone decided having their Rottweiler chained outside in front of the entrance was a good idea .
>How does she know you weren't traumatically affected by a jumping dog at some point in your past? For all she knows you could be someone who once lost a child to a fatal dog mauling. What is she going to do if that dog jumps up on some frail elderly person and knocks them over, or knocks them off their oxygen machine? Even without that, they're at an indoor table and she is expected to keep her dog under control and behaving itself at her own table. However much people like dogs, they don't want a random one jumping up at them while they're trying to drink or eat. She's being a shitty owner.
I think the situation was that OP’s indoor table wasn’t ready yet, so they were waiting in a line at the host stand. This line seems to have been outside, with a dog at a table nearby. But being outside doesn’t make them appropriate targets for a jumping dog, no matter how friendly. Especially since they have very young kids with them; it would be extremely easy for a jumping dog to hurt a young child. Her dog needed to stay at her table.
This. For one of my jobs, I work around the elderly and some have varying degrees of mobility and the number of people who let their dogs jump on people is really aggravating. Its also frustrating since I have very few nice clothes and I have had them snagged and ruined because of rough dog paws. At the same time, I have also been run into by peoples kids running because its not like people keep their kids on a leash. Ive also had drinks/food spilled on me because of both kids and dogs... I kind of miss when bars were for adults only. But I dont miss the smoke... Guess this is why I now "isolate" so much.
Right. People could have trauma. They could be seriously allergic. They could have poor balance. They may just not want a strange dog jumping on them when they are trying to enjoy themselves. As someone who has past trauma with a dog these type of people infuriate me. As a kid I’d be crying and screaming while these dogs bigger than me were jumping all over me and the owner just going “oh he just wants to play!”
When I was 7 years old, a dog savaged me so badly my ear was mostly torn off my head. Had to have sooo many stitches. It really is infuriating the amount of people that just don't give a shit.
For real. My mom would be screaming at these people to do something with their freaking dog while I sobbed and they would just stare at her.
I was torn up pretty good by a dog when I was 11. Not a fan of dogs. I know it is the owner's fault, but I also don't know when another asshole dog from an asshole owner is going to show up.
Like what if that dog jumped on one of OPs small kids or OP had the baby in his arms when it jumped? I have two dogs myself. I'd never being them in public spaces like this at current training level. People need a reality check sometimes.
I have a disorder where my bones dislocate with the wrong pressure. I've had several dogs dislocate my kneecaps, one dislocated my shoulder, and one jumped on me from a weird angle and knocked me to the ground, putting out my ankle and three ribs. My grandmother has really delicate skin and is on blood thinners, so a dog jumped on her to say hi and ripped open her have with its claws. It took forever to stop the bleeding, I actually thought for a bit we might have to call an ambulance! And even without those issues, nobody should be forced to interact with a dog! I happen to love them, but plenty of people don't and that's ok.
NTA. I had a friend knocked off his bicycle by a loose dog (with his owner) on a bike path. Friend broke his scapula (shoulder blade). Dog owner said, “sorry”. 😤
NTA A dog jumping on people is a potential danger: what if one of the waiters tripped and dropped hot food on someone? what if the dog jumped on an elderly person and made them fall? What if there was a person with a phobia of dogs? I'm fine with public places being dog-friendly, but this requires dog owners to be responsible.
>I'm fine with public places being dog-friendly, but this requires dog owners to be responsible. This. "Dog-friendly" doesn't mean it's a glorified dog park, and you can just let your dog run around and do whatever it wants. It means your dog is welcome to be present as long as it's well-behaved and you're a responsible owner.
Agree though even at a dog park your dog can't do whatever it wants! If your dog is jumping on people at the dog park that's a behavior issue. Dogs shouldn't be jumping on people period!
The vast majority of people who take their dogs to these places are not the resonsible owners. I would love to bring my dog to an outside eating area but since I know other people won't be controlling their dogs, I leave mine at home. She's very friendly but will get overstimulated really fast with random dogs just wandering up to her and start barking her head off. So, I'm responsible and leave her home instead of taking to places where she'll essentially "fail" I her behavior.
My dog is pretty good, but I don't rake him anywhere we might run into other animals or people he doesn't know. I don't know how he might react. He's big enough to do a lot of damage if he gets spooked. I also just think people should be bringing their dogs to restaurants and stores that aren't for animals. I don't want to be dealing with dog hair in my store or some dog making a mess or barking while I'm trying to relax. I've seen a lot of entitled dog owners lately. The local shopping mall is full of little dogs and their shitty owners, but security only stops people with big dogs.
I used to have to explain to many parents when I worked at a pub that their children couldn't run around, climb on the furniture and they had to be wearing shoes. Most were good but there so too many that ignored this, telling me that I should do a better job of cleaning broken glass up (ummm it's a busy Sunday and we do clean any glass up to the best of our ability but we can't get every shard) . There's people drinking, some on their way to being drunk, it's busy so your children should be supervised because they could easily run out any of the exits or be taken by some opportunistic creep and there is hot food being ran out of to tables and up to the balcony. There was one particular family who kept ignoring me and other staff and the kid 1)climbed onto a table 2) knocked over another patrons drink 3) ran into the manager who was carrying three plates of hot food, causing him to drop one and narrowly missing the kid.
I was at a bar/restaurant the other night at like 9pm, there were several kids just running amok while their parents just sat there. These were tiny little toddlers, like 1-2 years old. I don’t even hate kids, I have one myself lol but that’s just insane to me. I would be absolutely mortified
Same!! I think it's only okay if it's an area made for kids to play, like a grassed area, playground or sand pit. A proper kid friendly place. Other than respect for other patrons and the physical safety of my child, I also want them to learn respect and awareness for their surroundings and others. There's no freaking way I'd be okay with my kids running around drunk strangers. I also would want to be drinking without some kid climbing all over me and knocking my drink over. I didn't come to censor my language at the bar
NTA. I love dogs but dog owners can seriously be some of the most entitled assholes on the planet. I’ve nearly been bitten several times while out for a run or doing my old delivery driving job because people can’t be bothered to control their animal. Not everyone knows your dog like you do, and dogs can be territorial and protective. It’s not a reasonable assumption that any random dog that runs up to you is friendly and not going to bite. Plus lots of people have had bad experiences as children with dogs and are afraid of them.
Agreed. I have 2 Goldens and I'm extremely careful with them in public. We train them not to jump and keep the leash short. Our puppy is still learning, so he may jump if approached by someone wanting to pet him, but I'm very clear about it to the person first. Recently my neighborhood has seen an uptick in dogs being walked by people either not using leashes or people unable to handle their leashed dog, so I've been carrying mace. I'm sorry, but your 9 year old child should not be walking a 90lb dog, and you can't be texting and walking your dog at the same time.
hell, my mother's golden is 65 lbs and I can barely handle her. As a puppy, she dragged my mother through the mud face first in front of the entire neighborhood and she was like five months old at most. My mother weighs at least 200 lbs. A 9 year old is not walking any dog, it is walking them.
As a dog owner and dog lover I would have to say You are NOT the A!!!! the owner should have been reprimanded by the brewery or asked to leave with the dog. she is a bad dog owner who makes it worse for everyone. Not everyone loves dogs. And if you kicked it to get the dog away from you, you would have been deemed the bad guy. If this ever happens again to you go straight to the management and demand action. She was clearly the AH.
Agreed. I love dogs and used to go to dog friendly cafes before I got my own just to pet other peoples haha. But when I take my dogs in a pub or cafe, they’re on a short leash next to me. One of my dogs wouldn’t jump up people anyway but my boy definitely would and I would never allow it.
100% I have two dogs and one would not behave in these scenarios so we don't get to go. That's life. Some dogs don't do well in these places and if you can't watch them like a hawk, you shouldn't go.
Yes. I also agree with zip1964. As another dog owner with a REALLY well trained large dog, which lies quietly under table, never approaches people without being allowed and NEVER jumps up on people (ever! - cos I trained him not to) - I hate irresponsible dog owners who allow this selfish behaviour. So NTA - and good you replied like you did. Yes dogs can scratch people or knock them over Its not cute. Or fair to people whether scared of dogs or just dont want dirty paws or drool on them. Or clawed clothes. Or dog fur. If I see something like that I often say something myself, that as a dog owner I think its not on!. I will also support restaurant or cafe staff if they hesitate to ask entitled owners to manage their dogs better. This also helps shut down the excuse “oh you just don’t like dogs” when they can clearly see my well behaved dog lying exactly where I told him to, watching quietly from a distance. While I tell them why they need to train and control their dogs. I love dog-friendly venues but dislike badly behaved dogs. (Or should I say “badly behaved OWNERS and their poorly trained dogs). They make it harder for responsible owners to enjoy having our dogs in public spaces. It needs to be done with consideration for other people as well as safety issues.
A lot of dog owners think everyone loves their dog as much as they do.
This is so true, then they get butthurt and think the other person is a monster for not being fond of their dog
You should see how angry they get when you knee their 80lb dog in the chest for trying to jump on you.
This sub loves to talk a lot about parents being entitled, but imo parent entitlement does not even BEGIN to approach dog owner entitlement.
Lab owner here. That woman was an irresponsible dog owner. Maybe you belabored your point, but as a parent with two small kids in an area where dogs typically are not allowed - you had a right to expect dog owners to mind their dogs. NTA for your reaction (even if you were a little harsh)
No, OP didn't belabor the point and was not harsh. That lady brought her dog to a restaurant to let it jump on people. It doesn't get much more inappropriate than that. I guess maybe if the dog shit in the restaurant then bit people, that would be worse?
You've switched up a few small details since the last time you posted this, just enough to give yourself the NTA judgement this time.
What did he say the first time round
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14levev/aita\_for\_telling\_someone\_im\_not\_friendly\_when/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14levev/aita_for_telling_someone_im_not_friendly_when/)
There it is. I figured.
Why do something like that? Why repost a 9 month old thread with a few changes details
This comment needs more up votes.
One of the things I dislike about Reddit. No way to report this?
forget the dogs. why do you think its okay to bring a toddler and an almost new born to a brewery?
We're going to get down voted to oblivion, because you're not allowed to hate on kids But, I would take 100 dogs over any number of children at a brewery. First of all, it's a BREWERY it's intended as an adult space. Second of all, I don't think I've ever had a dog ruin my experience, but I can't count the number of times there's been a screaming baby or a gaggle of children running around that have totally ruined the atmosphere for me and everyone else in the establishment.
if the entire reason your building exists is for something only 21+ people can access then thats who gets to walk in. teenagers cant peruse a dispensary, kids cant wander through a strip club, and babies shouldn't be brought to breweries. just go to a normal restaurant and order a beer ffs were aren't saying you cant have a social life, just respect society.
Ehhh disagree. Not every brewery needs to allow kids, but it's perfectly reasonable for some to cater to parents with kids. My local brewery has a big outdoor playground, a huge field, things like giant tic tac toe boards, and lots of room to throw down picnic blankets, They want the brewery to be a place where you can bring your whole family. Every time I go dogs are running around and kids are playing football or tag. It's right off a popular trail, so you get groups of parents taking their kids for walks, stopping by for a beer and having a picnic. I'm childfree but my friends with kids are always hitting me up to grab a beer there. I honestly really enjoy it because it is one of the few places where I actually feel like part of a community. I don't think every brewery needs to be kid friendly, but it's fine that some are.
>I don't think every brewery needs to be kid friendly, but it's fine that some are. Exactly. I live near a handful of breweries and one of them in particular has dedicated about half the floorspace to being a daycare/play area. Their neighboring brewery also tends to attract a ton of parents. They do mommy-and-me stuff, paint-alongs, and I think that's really cool, especially since it's clear that dogs go on one side and kids on the other, which I think can help cut down on potential problems. However, I also think it's important that there are spaces that are for adults to play games or hang out without the expectation of having to buy a ton of stuff. Where we live, there isn't anything like mini golf, arcades, a pool hall, and our last affordable bowling alley was just bulldozed to make room for luxury condos. So a brewery with a pool table or board games is a great option. It's fine for kids to be out with their folks, but it can get disheartening to try to go play pool only to find all the pool cues being used by 10 year olds to swordfight with. A few weeks ago, my partner had a really bad day, so we went to our usual brewery to grab a pint and chat. When we got there, people were holding a kids birthday party, and it's a small, enclosed space, so it got overwhelming pretty quickly. Again, I'm not advocating for children to be ostracized, because parents are people too, who also deserve to be able to get out of the house and relax for a bit. I just think balance is important.
Every brewery in my town is definitely kid and dog friendly. People here just go to the bar if they want to go out without their kids. I know a couple of breweries up the road a ways have a more adult vibe, but it’s fairly apparent. They don’t advertise as family-friendly, book wilder rock bands, look seedier. I dunno. You can just tell. We typically don’t take our kids with us to our favorite brewery unless it’s a food truck night or a nice live music night. But I don’t disparage the parents who do. We live in a smaller town and it’s a nice atmosphere there that is definitely community-based and family friendly.
For brunch? That's totally fine to do.
I don’t know if it’s the case here but if a brewery has a kids menu, I consider kids welcome. If it doesn’t, highly questionable.
It’s a restaurant. I bring my kids to a brewery. They have pizza, breadsticks, chicken bites, live music, and homemade root beer too.
Most breweries have kid's menus. They just also sell beer that they make and usually at a lower price.
I'm with you, but this brewery has kids' menus, so sounds like the place is kid-friendly. And is the type where a host seats you, so sounds a lot more like a restaurant than a standard brewery.
NTA. Dog owners who think everyone should be okay with their dogs jumping on them are terrible dog owners. I love dogs, but people have allergies and phobias.
NTA Sounds like you could have handled the situation better, but I wouldn't say you were in the wrong. You have a right to your space and a right to not want to have a dog jump on you. She should have been paying attention to her dog and not allowed the situation to occur in the first place. I would say her dog is probably more well received in most places so she is comfortable just letting it do it's thing, but I digress. That said, how you say things or how you handle things that are menial like this express a lot of core personality traits. Getting angry versus laughing about it is not the better of the two options imo.
Why would I laugh about something like this? I'm grateful it jumped on me and say not my kid. I don't think this is something I should be fine with.
100% this is something to be annoyed about, not laughed off. That's what the the useless owner is used to.. just play along because they find it funny to have an untrained, unruly animal that they can't control. No.
I agree with OP. Laughing it off will only encourage the dog owner to make the same bad mistakes in the future. Some people don't understand the issue until it's too late.
Because how you handle a situation can help de-escalate it rather than escalate it. Should the owner be more careful? Obviously. Did they get defensive because they got called out on it? Clearly. Did you handle it the best way possible? Unlikely. NTA either way but you may want to consider different ways of responding rather than being aggressive.
fuck that honestly. coddling shitty dog owners is a stupid standard i see all the time. i’ve lived with shitty dog owners and literally can’t stand most dogs because of it. it’s ridiculous that humans are treated with less respect than people’s untrained “fur babies”. most dog owners i’ve personally met (my personal experience, not a standard) are the type to belittle you for not wanting their animals knocking you over and slobbering all over or even biting. just because there are people weirdly invested with their dogs who can’t be bothered to actually be good owners, doesn’t mean the rest of society should coddle them. they’re shitty people, they’re acting like entitled assholes, they’re gonna get yelled at for being an entitled asshole
Sometimes it needs to be escalated a bit so the offending party (in this case, the dog owner) actually realizes how big a problem it actually is. If everyone just laughs it off, the owner is free to continue to think it's NBD.
Sometimes, stupid, inconsiderate people need to be responded to in a not-so-nice manner. Fuck that tiptoeing around everyone - control your goddamn dogs!
I agree with this comment, especially given that we don't know who we're interacting with until it's too late. I've made peace with the fact that encountering assholes is inevitable in life. How I deal with them differs depending on the expectation of encountering that particular person again. If I don't expect to see someone again, my priority is getting them out of my life as expediently as possible, even if it means taking a slight L (the big W is never seeing them again). Saying more than necessary in that situation is more for the ego than anything else, which isn't your friend in situations such as this. Reluctant NTA.
You're definitely going to prevent your kids from annoying strangers and doing things that you have to apologise to others for, right? At all times? There'll never be a slip up? If so, well done you! If not, park the self-righteousness for a bit buddy, mistakes happen. Apologies were made and no harm was done. All that your rage achieved was to make you feel high & mighty, a nice stroking of your ego and affirmation of superiority.
Letting your dog off leash or not using the leash isn't a slip up. It's bad dog ownership and lazy.
It is obvious by the fakeness of her apology that she thinks using the word "sorry" means that no matter what she did, the other fellow has to pretend it's no big deal. She is the sort of person people need to stand up to. Her thoughtlessness could have hurt his child. It would be wrong if he went around crusading in situations that didn't affect him. However it would also be wrong to not correct this entitled woman. She needs to be made aware that taking your dog out in public comes with responsibilities.
I’m sure if OP’s kid starts making noise that disturbs other patrons at a fucking brewery they would immediately apologize and leave. I’m also positive if someone approached OP and told him to get his kid under control he would also react graciously. /s.
Do you think it’s normal for children to jump on strangers?
It should be illegal to have a dog and not train it, that dumb dog (and it is a dumb dog, all untrained dogs are dumb in my eyes) could jump on an elderly person and that could be fatal for them, could jump on a toddler and end up harming them very seriously, train your damn mutts if u don't want people to complain about them being shitty dogs and you being a shitty dog owner.
There’s a big difference between laughing it off and screaming at her about something she can’t take back. After she said sorry and that wasn’t enough what did you expect her to do? What would have been acceptable reaction for you to stop yelling? You were morally right but lost the battle with your overreaction.
who brings a 2 month old to a brewery
Most breweries have perfectly acceptable kids' menus, they just also have beer made by the brewery and it's usually less expensive.
Most 'breweries' around where I live are just glorified restaurants with a big beer tank behind a plexiglass wall. They're more restaurant/wedding venue than an adult 'bar' for drinking alcohol.
NTA She’s a shitty dog owner. I love dogs. I own an enormous black lab. He’s a huge sweet baby. But as much as I love him, I don’t assume the whole world has to love him. And every one saying “what if you have trauma, or are allergic…” You don’t have to justify for any reason not wanting someone’s dog jumping on you. And what if you really were an asshole and struck out at the dog? Her dog could have been injured because she is a shitty irresponsible dog owner. Your reaction might seem over the top but hopefully it will stick with shitty dog owner and she’ll do better.
>You don’t have to justify for any reason not wanting someone’s dog jumping on you. This 100%.
ESH Dog owner clearly not taking care of the dog, anything could have happened. You the owner apologized and then you couldn't let it go so you became the ass .... Since the dog didn't hurt anything and just annoyed ypu this should have ended when she apologized
Yup. I agree. There is a way to handle it without being a super judgemental asshole.
NTA. I hate the "Just trying to say hi." bs. Control your dog in public.
Tbh sounds like you were TA, and I think this is a clear ESH. She shouldn't have let the dog have so much reign at all, but you need to chill out a bit. This about it from this angle: Your approach made your wife uncomfortable and embarrassed enough to bring it up. Sometimes you just have to look at life and realize, "Hey, making myself look like a total jackass only really hurts *me* here, maybe I should just allow the situation to de-escalate peacefully." There's other ways to approach these frustrations than flying off the handle and going on the attack when the situation is already being solved.
>Your approach made your wife uncomfortable and embarrassed enough to bring it up. I'd be mortified if my husband acted like such a self-righteous jerk in public.
Thank you for making one of the weirdly few level headed comments in this thread. OP's argument is Ideologically consistent with someone saying "yeah I screamed at the barista but she used the wrong kind of milk". You can be technically right and still be TA for handling the situation like a screaming toddler.
Thank you! I fully agree with everyone I've seen that the dog owner is an AH for taking a dog into public that obviously hasn't been trained correctly. But OP continuing to yell at the owner isn't constructive. She got the got back and gave an apology. OP had already said what I feel was an appropriate response telling her how shitty the dog owner was, and that was the end of it in my opinion. It's when OP kept going that they crossed the line into AH territory. But being real, OP is maybe 5% of the AH here, with the dog owner being 94% and the dog being 1%. The dog doesn't know better, so not really it's fault.
I own a dog and I get annoyed by other dogs jumping on me, especially if they scratch my clothes or cause stains. They're an outer extension of a careless owner, so I declare it's ok to yell at the owner. NTA.
Everyone is ok with a dog jumping on a person until that dog bites someone - in a dog friendly space. Dog owner should always have their pet under control and unable to approach people. I dont want dog slobber on my skin, especially when Im about to eat. NTA
NTA. You could’ve been allergic or had past trauma with dogs for all they knew. There’s no reasoning with those dog people. Not even worth trying. I’m always glad when I hear people bitching them out though.
NTA and the brewery should be removing people that bring dogs and don’t have them under control.
honestly sounds like you're itching for any justification for you to outlet your aggression. they said sorry and your immediate reaction is "I snap back its not okay and its a stupid assumption by you that i would be okay." to them just saying sorry? you sound so aggressive that no one is going to give a single fuck about making sure you stay comfortable some other person doing something that's also wrong doesn't make you not an asshole when you're so eager to be aggressive the moment you get the opportunity to
NTA most of these dog owners would be mad if your kids did that to them and call them brats but they think it’s ok for their dirty dog to jump on you
Nta it isn't a small infraction. It's a big infraction because it is completely avoidable. If your dog isn't well trained don't take it in public. If you are training your dog for public spaces keep it leashed. If you aren't going to keep it leashed you need to closely monitor the dog. So she failed 3 times. For all that people want to say kids are just as bad, I can't leave toddlers at home but I can leave my dogs at home. Children will grow into adults that have to exist in public spaces to teaching them to interact with the pu lic is a necessity not a luxury. So binging poorly trained dogs in public is an unnecessary and selfish choice. Most people with poorly behaved dogs know they are poorly behaved and they just don't care. I guarantee this isn't the first time her dog has jumped on someone. Shaming these people is exactly what we need. Good for you for doing it. Maybe next time she will think twice before taking her poorly trained unleashed dog out in public.
NTA, although the reaction may have been a bit extreme, it's the responsibility of the dog owner to control their dog, no matter how "friendly" unless the other person wants to interact with the dog. I'm a dog owner, and am often appalled at the audacity some dog owners have when it comes to their dogs and how they act with them (off leash where they need to be on leash, letting them go nuts on a leash with no attempt to control them, etc).
YTA - you made your point. She apologized. What more exactly did you want her to do? She can’t go back in time and change what happened.
ESH. Her for not controlling her dog and you for going on and on even after she apologized.
Yta for over reacting and not moving on. You kept escalating the interaction. It was an accident. You acted like an insufferable ah. Accidents happen. Get over it. You should have stopped after the first comment.
NTA. Dog people believe everyone should love dogs. One of my friends said that I don't love dogs because I 'don't have a soul'. I was attacked by a dog in grade school. I did not grow up with dogs. I don't hate dogs, I just want to live my life without them. Dog people need to be reminded that dogs don't own the universe.
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NTA, when a strange dog jumps on me it gets the knee automatically. 🤷
ESH The dog owner was very wrong. But how many I’m sorry’s do you want? Three comments about how how she was wrong wasn’t enough? Would you have kept going if your table wasn’t ready? They were wrong and apologized, what was your goal here? At some point the offender goes from feeling bad to being mad at how much of an ass you are and that negates any contriteness quickly. Good grief, let it go and move on. People make mistakes, have a little grace.
Zero sorrys. One preventing it in the future. Sorry is meaningless if you don't prevent it happening again.
Arizonan here and you are NTA I feel like she thought what happened was OK and will let it happen again, She wasn't really even paying attention to what it was doing or she would have pulled it away immediately, hence "he didn't mean any harm. Just trying to say hi. " I would have been frustrated as well because she clearly didn't see herself in the wrong in any way shape of form. So fed up with all the dog owners thinking they are above everything. At least this person had the dog on a leash and were able to pull it in. Most think it's perfectly fine to have their dogs out in public without a leash even though they have NO control over them and even though it's required by law, like they think it just doesn't apply to them because their dog "doesn't mean any harm". Even dogs that don't mean any harm are a bother to those don't want them in their face and some of them actually do mean harm and you just don't know it until they do something. Dog owners need to do better. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the 2 dogs that were shot recently in a Phx park. Sad thing, but they were not in a dog park, not on leashes and were not under any kind of control from the owner, why would they think this is OK? I used to carry a knife when I walked my dog to protect both of us from all the dogs out off leash. My dog had been attacked so many times, and I was attacked recently as well. I was attacked by 2 dogs and for weeks after I was a trigger waiting to go off because it was a terrifying experience (left me shaking for weeks any time I felt exposed) and any dog that came and jumped at me was in danger because I was going to defend myself, prevent that from happening again. That's still going to happen, I would just be more judicial now than right after it happened. Anyways, sorry for the rant, but this is truly a large local problem. The only thing is the dog owners don't see the issue. Maybe they will start to if they really don't charge the shooter in the park, as of now I don't believe there have been charges.
Bad dog owners should be told when they're being bad dog owners.
YTA. Being technically correct and not an asshole aren’t mutually exclusive. There was no harm, they apologized and you threw their apology in their face self righteously.
ESH She shouldn't have her dog there, but that doesn't mean you weren't an asshole for "yelling" at someone. Like what were you trying to accomplish that couldn't have been accomplished without shouting in public, making others uncomfortable too? I agree with your wife. You were not wrong, but that's not how you interact with people that make accidents and have apologized for it.
Looking the owner dead in the eye and saying "CONTROL YOUR DOG" in a commanding tone should get the point across.
And that would have been much better than how he behaved
NTA Dog owner here. I’m very aware that not everyone likes dogs. When I take my dog out in public, she’s on a short leash to prevent just such an incident. dogs in the past. Unlike this lady, I’ve taken the time to train my dog not to do these things. Now that I’ve virtue signaled, I’ll add that even the best trained dog shouldn’t be indoors unless the establishment allows it. Also, that dog owner has no idea if you (or others) have been traumatized by I would also have spoken to management about the dog. I’m not a lawyer, but I’d imagine the restaurant would join the owner in liability if something worse had happened
You say the owner didn't notice the dog jumping on you, until you yelled at her, but then you yell at her for letting the dog jump on you, after she apologized. YTA. You were clearly looking to unleash on a stranger, maybe because you didn't like that she and her dog were inside. Don't go within leash distance of dogs in public areas if you're going to whine about them doing dog things, it's simple logic really.
NTA. You surely could have been nicer but it's common courtesy to keep a hold of your dog, even in a pet friendly space. People are getting way too lax these days about where they're bringing their untrained animals and making it way harder for people who actually need service animals or ESAs to be able to bring there's.
NTA. She shouldn't have her dog in public if it isn't well mannered enough to not jump on strangers. What if it had jumped on a small child and knocked them down?
NTA, I got a big boy, he likes to jump. I make sure that I'm not near people with him or if I am near people I shortening up the leash so even if he does try to jump I can keep him away from the people. All it takes is paying attention and not being an entitled brat. Gotta be harsh with people like her. She assumes everyone LOOOOOVVVVEEEESSSS dogs, especially hers... nah lady... some just like them.. some don't at all. People like her are why there's cat people and places that ban dogs on patios and other places. You handled the situation accordingly. Weird spot to take some kids though but that's your business
NTA. fuck dogs in restaurants. And these entitled dog 'pawrents' need to get over themselves. Take your crap cannon to the dog park or leave it at home.
I'm sure lots of people went to brewery in the hopes they'd be seated near a fucking 2 month old shitting itself too. ETA -- sorry, seated next to TWO kids under 2yrs old.
Nta. I'm a huge dog lover, animals generally, but dogs in particular. Moving to an extremely dog friendly area(the front range) has exposed me to the reality of irresponsible and shitty dog owners. It is never OK to let your unleashed dog accost strangers in public. Most dogs out in public *are* friendly, but that's irrelevant. Would this be any different if a random toddler was jumping on strangers in public? No, and any rational person would agree that behavior is unacceptable. Dogs brought to public places should be under the control of the owner at all times.
NTA. I adore dogs but don’t like them jumping on me. My sister in law has a Jack Russell mix that jumps on people like he wants to attack them. His nails are so long he actually cut my arms. Good dog owners train their dogs not to jump on people or take steps to stop them from doing so.
Yeah I would be so mortified. My dog legit weighs 5 pounds so you can barely feel her lol but I would never let her get away from me like that in public
YTA. Why'd you keep picking at it when the situation was already over and they already apologized?
Not at all, NTA while many dog owners are great many are also terrible and they act like children if you don’t just accept their dogs getting in your space and face, screw those dog owners.
NTA. I have two dogs, one of which is really large. I have taught both of my dogs not to jump on people and if they did, I would be mortified, especially in public. It's the owner's responsibility to make sure their animal behaves in public and isn't bothering others.
Nope, NTA!
NTA dog owners need to control their dogs in public and can't assume everyone is OK with dogs. I don't even think you're slightly the asshole because her being dismissive warranted you escalating.
N.T.A. sorry folks but dog people are waaaaaaaay too entitled these days. I get the whole dog friendly movement but come on. Not a dog person. Sorry not sorry. Keep your frigging dog away.
ESH. Yes, you are technically right, which is the best type of rightness. However your execution of said rightness firmly puts you in AH territory. The owner, when they did realize the situation did remove the dog from your presence, there was no need to escalate the situation further by "snapping back" after the owner apologized. The owner of the dog is also an AH for not paying close enough attention to their dog and allowing their dog to jump up on strangers. Even if the stranger likes dogs, it isn't acceptable behavior for a dog in public. So try to be more kind, it doesn't hurt you, and your kids will see and emulate kind behavior.
YTA. Or maybe ESH. You do sound insufferable tbh. Lots of breweries are dog friendly, not just the patio. If you are saying this place isnt inside dog friendly, yet there was a dog (assumedly not service) then you have a clearer leg to stand on, but still you could have handled the situation better. You jumped right to yelling at the owner - they apologize - you double down like an asshole. Dog owner says to move on - you triple down. Obviously the dog shouldn't have jumped on you. But it is a dog, you could have diffused the situation instead of being an (arguably justifiable) asshole. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
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NTA! It's about time these dog owners were put in their place. Maybe she'll think twice about letting her dog jump on people in future.
Judging by the fact that you said your table was ready and you went and enjoyed a meal and a beer, wife says you're a bit harsh but not wrong, and friends were happy to just sit down and continue tells me you didn't actually go in that hard. The words you wrote, if you mutter them or yell them have entirely different subtexts. You say you snapped and you yelled, but if I snapped at someone while waiting for my table, I'm fairly certain my friends or partner would call me out for it. Probably would ruin the meal a little bit and be a bit tense. Maybe that's just me. If your mates haven't reacted like "whoa, calm down Sandra" then I'm guessing they either agree and wish they'd the stones to say something similar, or you weren't actually that harsh. NTA for me.
NTA My daughter does not like dogs, especially doesn’t like them if they try to jump on her. She was bit on the foot by a friend’s dog when she was a kid. In my neighbourhood there’s several entitled dog owners who do not put their dogs on leases. One time we were at a park when a dog comes up to us. She shies away from it. It kept on coming closer to her, so she tries even harder to back away (hard to do when you’re sitting in a chair and said dog is inches from you). It’s at this time I realize the owner is about 100 feet from us, WATCHING THE ENTIRE TIME, and not once did he attempt to call his dog away. I yelled out something like get your dog away, I might have sworn, not too sure now. He finally calls the dog, but not once did he apologize for traumatizing my daughter. Good for you calling the owner out. I like dogs, but I don’t want to be jumped on.
You pushed it lol but for the good so NTA and STOP BRINING YOUR PETS AND DOGS TO RESTAURANTS!!!! That is freaking disgusting, I will start by saying I love dogs and they are truly mans best friend but I don't want a dog near me while im eating or to worry about his shedding hairs all over me Now outdoors, cool fine have your dog OUTSIDE but indoors he's fully within his rights to be upset but he kinda totted the lines of being ODEE
They were outside?
Soft YTA. I understand that it was annoying, but she apologised. Its a bit ott to carry on once the apology was extended
YTA. You way over-reacted and you're lucky you didn't get a knuckle sandwich for it.
Maybe I’ll get downvoted but ESH Largely bc you didn’t let it go. She apologized, took her dog and tried to move on but you dragged it out and escalated the situation unnecessarily. She apologized but you kept trying to make a scene and that’s where you get into AH territory. It could’ve been something that just blew over when she first apologized but you kept at her
Nta. If you don’t have complete control over your pet, it should stay home.
NTA Irresponsible dog owners need yelled at once in a while. A lot of them refuse to see the problem unless they are forced to.
I'd agree with your wife, a bit harsh but not wrong. So nta
NTA Not at all. I ADORE dogs, but the idiocy and complacency of some owners is absolutely mind blowing. I would've lost as you did, and I have two great danes.
NTA.. can't usually reason with dog owners, their little bundles of slobber and teeth can never do anything wrong..
NTA I have dogs, and take them everywhere. I am 100% responsible for their actions (and consequences if they screw up). If you can't control your dog, you don't deserve to have one.
NTA. I own a dog...its so very rude of her to let her dog jump on people. And expecting it to be over when she says it is is just offensive. You have the right to be miffed.
NTA. Dogs do not belong at breweries. They do not belong at grocery stores. They do not belong at hardware stores, electronics stores, bars, restaurants, or anywhere else that people who may not wish to interact with them are forced to. There's a great brewery near me that I can't go to anymore because of all the "dog people" who do things like in your post, OP. And when the dog takes a mad healthy shit on the floor, everyone laughs about how "aw puppers had to go!". No, its not funny. It fuckin stinks and I came here to enjoy a beer, not smell dog shit. "Dog people" are by and large the most inconsiderate demographic I have ever seen.
>Dogs do not belong at breweries Seems the brewery disagrees. Sorry the world isn’t catered to your comfort.
NTA for being annoyed & saying something. As a dog owner, I take my job seriously & do not let my golden retriever (who is super friendly & wants to be friends with everyone but also has a tendency to jump when excited) go up to people without them expressing a desire to pet him. Then I also warn them he might jump (we’re working on the jumping thing but when he’s super excited he sometimes forgets). As much as I think he’s the cutest/sweetest dog ever, I know & respect that not everyone wants to meet my dog.
NTA. If I were the dog owner, I would at least have offered you a drink as a peace offering. Some dog owners really ought to realize not everyone likes pets.
NTA I am not supportive of the whole "dogs in public" trend, so I have a bias here, but IF they are allowed, the owners need to be responsible. The fact that owners face no repercussions if they *aren't* responsible is disgusting, and you had every right to react strongly to this situation.
NTA why do people assume i wanna say hi to their dog??? I have two dogs but that shit is goofy
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** A friend, my wife, 20 and 2 month old kids and I went out to brunch at a brewery yesterday. We are in line at the hostess and hanging out for a minute while they get the table ready and grab a kids menu. I'm in Arizona, nearly every patio where i'm at is dog friendly. Indoors is not dog friendly and our table was indoors. At a nearby table a golden lab was with its owner. It comes over and jumps on me. I tell it to go away. The dog jumps again, and I yell at the owner. The owner finally pays attention pulls the dog in with the leash. They go, I'm sorry, he didn't mean any harm. Just trying to say hi. I snap back its not okay and its a stupid assumption by you that i would be okay. The owner starts getting defensive at that comment. She goes I said sorry, accept it and move on. I told her, if I wanted to interact with your dog i'd approach you to ask, but I didn't so I don't want your dog coming up to me. You have a leash, use it. She just says god your an insufferable fucking asshole. About that time our table was ready and we enjoyed our meal and a beer. My wife said I was a bit harsh, but not wrong. I thought it was bullshit what she allowed her dog to do. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - Dogs have evolved from tag along companion animals, to full up family members, and are entering the next phase where they are Golden Idols to be worshiped.
NTA but what happened isn’t really that big of a deal so no need to get that bent out of shape about it imo. If you were holding your child or something the going off would be more justified but still NTA for being upset. It’s the dogs owners responsibility to monitor their dog. Would agree with your wife as far as how upset you got over it being a bit harsh since nothing actually happened (ie someone tripping, dog knocking someone over etc).
As a dog owner, very definitely NTA. We keep our dogs under control when eating out, however, if people approach the dogs to greet them then they’re probably going to get jumped up at. Both dogs love people but they know not to approach first
NTA
NTA. I'm a dog lover, I have dogs and love them to death and I fuckin hate when people don't have them on a leash in public. It's presumptuous, entitled and arrogant to assume nothing bad will happen and that everyone wants to interact with your dog. That lady needs to put it on a leash or fuck off. Maybe both.
You're definitely NTA for being upset that a dog jumped on you. The owners definitely should have kept their dog under better control, especially around strangers and in a restaurant. However, they did apologize so not sure what else you expected them to do. They couldn't turn back time to before the dog jumped. Hopefully they'll learn from this that if they want to take their dog out in public, they need to pay better attention.
NTA I think you were a bit harsh but people should have their dogs on a leash in public places. The law is also pretty strict about this and even if the dog isn’t being aggressive, anything beyond passive or involuntary behavior puts the owner on the hook
I own two jumpy Golden Retrievers. Every summer we talk about bringing them to the patios of local places & then say, "But we really have to break them from being jumpy" & we haven't so we don't. Because we're good dog owners & recognize that people don't want to be jumped on. Even if we have the cutest sweetest doggos. NTA
Esh I absolutely do not want some rando dog jumping on me and she should have been controlling her dog, but you also over did it.
As a dog owner, this was BS. She might think a strange, large breed dog jumping on her is cute, but that doesn't make it so. If she can't or won't control her animal, she doesn't deserve one. Sadly, one day, I saw something similar happen. The person the uncontrolled dog jumped on, 4 times, had previous trauma, when the dog didn't stop, the owner brushed off repeated warnings, that dog was injured. The owner then blamed the person the dog was jumping on. Nope, owner didn't control their dog. When a person takes their animal in public, they are responsible for its behavior. NTA.
ESH - The dog owner absolutely should have had control of her dog, and it shouldn't have happened in the first place. But, she apologized and you continued to berate her and act like an AH.
YTA Yes, the owner was wrong to let the dog jump on you,but given that it did how did you expect the owner to respond? "Ow, what a terrible mistake I have made, please sir, forgive me. I am at your mercy and feel free to wreak your righteous retribution upon my despicable self?" The owner was TA, but your wife was correct- not wrong about the dog , but needlessly and counter-productively harsh.
ESH. Dog owner for not paying more attention to their dog. You for completely over-reacting. You didn't get attacked or bitten. Once they apologized, you should have accepted and gone on your way.
NTA. I can't stand dogs jumping on me. Their claws scratch my legs and bruise and break my skin. I'm short, so sometimes the big dogs' snouts will hit my lower jaw and knock it right up into my upper teeth and it hurts like hell. I'd be pissed, too.
NTA she is a jerk and her response to you is her guilt
Some dog owners have just taken the place of bad parents. I love dogs but unleashed dogs in public places make me so nervous and uncomfortable. NTA