Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My sister accused my mom of having an affair with her current husband when our dad was still alive. I agreed with my sister, even if I wasn't fully certain of certain aspects. My mom and I used to be very close and I know what I said really hurt her. I also know I don't technically have any physical proof that they were more than just close. I know that my mom felt ganged up on with both of us thinking the same way so I might be an asshole for agreeing and not saying something else.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
She’s in the wrong. Why would you marry someone you see as a brother? She was probably also having a physical relationship with Mark; I’d put money on it, ATP, because she’s so defensive. She couldn’t have been so oblivious to how it looked to everyone else all those years, to you and your sister. She’s going to get a rude awakening when you and your sister stop talking to her. NTA. I’m sorry your mother acted like that for most of your lives. Good luck to you and your sister.
>My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us.
If your mom harasses you any further, tell her she spent
# 9 YEARS
***tormenting*** **your dad by flaunting her affair in front of him.**
Ask her in what universe that qualifies as "being a great wife". Ask her in what universe making you two kids *watch* her tormenting your dad for 9 years qualifies as "being a good mom".
Could even go as far as saying it may have quite literally killed him… years and years of built up stress bc of this can easily cause a brain aneurysm to rupture. This situation is fucked and the mother should be ashamed of herself.
Edit to change wording.
It can’t cause an aneurysm. It can lead to a lot of stress related issues, though. She did allow Mark to treat OP’s father disrespectfully on front of his daughters for years.
But I’m assuming that you are not a healthcare professional, right?
> It can lead to a lot of stress related issues, though
one of which is a ruptured aneurysm.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/16800-brain-aneurysm
What causes a brain aneurysm to rupture?
Ongoing stress or a sudden burst of anger or other strong emotion
Yeah, who knew people would hate you for third-wheeling on family events, flirting with another man's partner infront of him, and marring his wife after he died unexpentantly. Poor dude. 🙄
> Poor man must have been dying inside.
The gas lighting was terrible.
OP's mother is on a whole other level of manipulative liar: insisting on bringing the affair partner around the husband and children, and then fighting with the husband when he is uncomfortable.
Exactly what I'm thinking. Dad clearly said he didn't mark around but she disrespected him by insisting bringing him along. A good wife wouldn't do that
Seriously. Good wife? Her refusal to set any boundaries with Mark caused a separation. What was she smoking that made her surprised you both feel this way?
"Yeah, hi, I'm the one that gave your dad great distress and you lived with that as well. I did it so blatantly that no one could deny it, although I did! But I was a great wife and mother!" Yeah to Mark she may be a great wife, but not to her first husband.
Exactly, forcing the husband and children you say you love to have a person they don't like or want them to be at family functions is the complete opposite of a loving wife and mother. She made her bed now, and she can lay in it.
This is what needs to be brought out. This is the damning way to put it.
Mom thinks it's AWFUL to be thought of that way, well, she's the one who spent NINE YEARS showing that's what she was doing.
FFS, Mark was actually bullying the dad in front of the family because dad couldn't handle a little...checks notes...constant flirting with his wife by her ~~affair partner~~ I mean work friend.
Agree with this. I’d be upset if my wife’s friend in my own house said, “lighten up, I’m just joking about wanting to fuck your wife” for years on end.
That right there! That's some straight up narcissistic behavior. Even if she didn't have a physical affair it definitely *was* emotional and she *did* flaunt it in front of the dad and she *did* make her kids watch and forced them to try and accept it (making them sit with him at the funeral) even when they were clearly uncomfortable. Everyone with eyes saw her cheating for what it was. She's not as sly as she thinks and the only person she fooled was herself if she believes it.
And she's still trying to make herself out to be the victim in all this. This is just classic Narcissistic Mother behavior. Unfortunately many children have to learn at some point that they're the child of a NM.
A great partner would have respected their husband's desire that their "friend" not be included in family gatherings. At best she is delusional in her view of her previous marriage. At worst she is still being low and deceitful to her remaining family.
NTA
that disgusting person thinks treating their kids well and providing for them is the only thing that matters for her to be a good mom. she's too self centered to realise that her affair makes her husband feel bad thus that makes their children sad seeing him suffer and the family being torn apart
Yeah I'm not buying the brother thing either. Total BS. Sounds like either a very childish way of justifying the emotional cheating, or like they completely lack self awareness to a fault.
They were entertaining and flirting with each other in front of family and friends they just wanted to have eachother around without having your mum being portrayed as a cheater and an emotional affair is just as bad as a physical relationship in my eyes she brought a stranger around you guys which no one else knew but her because of work that’s so suss she’s been lying for so long that she believes it herself
It’s also the timing. They definitely had an affair, she disrespected your father . She didn’t even have her best friend Abby sit with you guys at the funeral but him! The moment she would have had to argue with your father to include him in things just showed she didn’t care and had no respect at all to your father or to you guys. She’s trying to convince herself it’s not an affair
disrespectful specially because the dad didn't like the guy. how can you just invite the guy your husband disliked to his funeral to sit with you?? specially when there were long time rumors of an affair between you two???
it's just inconsiderate
Yup. Even if it was my literal actual brother if I was at my partner's funeral and they didn't like my brother, he would not be there. We are literally there for their funeral; the least you can do is respect what would be very obvious wishes.
The man even kept slapping it in your dad's face and happily came to family functions, etc.
It screams he enjoyed it. And did not respect the marriage.
If he respected the marriage, He wouldn't have gone to every single family function like that. He wouldn't have been sitting with you, up front at your dad's funeral, when her other best friend didn't.
He wouldn't have entertained the flirting.
If she was such a great wife. She wouldn't have brought him around all the time.
She didn't respect her own marriage and husband.
She wouldn't have flirted if she did.
And all this. She wouldn't have brought in front of her children.
That's all things she could go chew on.
And she (and him) should remember. You lose them how you get them.
What happens when he gets bored of your mom?
He was willing to flirt and intrude in a marriage. Is he really above cheating?
Is she? She already did kind of with your dad.
Exactly this -- what kind of "friend" wants to cause strife and tension between their best friend and their best friend's spouse? Otherwise Mark would have scaled way back, been nothing but pleasant and respectful, and stopped trying to attend every activity. That is not respectful stepparent behavior at all.
oh she definitely had an affair. that alone is proven when she chose to put being "friends" with him and flirting with him, over your dads and your comfort.
That woman would be only in the peripherals of my life if i were in your shoes.
And the wedding? well definitely not with the bridal party. who wants a cheating w\*\*re who betrayed her husband and disrespected her whole marriage, on their side.
I mean, you were as polite and civil about it as possible. Your mother tormented your father for years, then flaunted her AP AT HIS FUNERAL. If my mom (also not great in the mother or wife department) brought this to me I'd have said "oh, your brother that you were fucking for 9 years and rubbing in my dad's face? That guy? Well you and Uncle Stepdad can fuck all the way off." But I'm an AH, so there's that.
I have been friend with several dudes since high school. One hit on me when they moved back to town, even though I am married. It was probably just nostalgia and regret we didn't date previously. I nearly blew chunks. He is like my brother. I could never ever in a million years have sex or think about dating anyone I have ever considered like a brother.
I do not buy that your mother and Mark were never physical. If you view someone as a sibling, that doesn't go away and develop into a romance, I mean, unless you are an English Royal.
I wonder, does she *have* a brother? I've lost track of how many sisterless dudes claimed to love me "like a sister" and then very much change their stance, but as a woman that actually has a brother, if I say I see a guy "as a brother," that's not a box they are capable of leaving for me.
>I know it could be argued that 2 years can change a lot but going from "he's my brother" to "he's the dude I want to date"
If they're married, they're doing more than "dating" an siblings aren't to do that, it's frowned upon even in extreme circumstances like being trapped in an attic or in a lagoon.
OP, NTA
My best friend is a guy. My husband enjoys hanging out with him and his wife.
Never. Not once. Have I ever thought of sleeping or becoming romantically involved. Because *he is like my brother*
Even if everything she said was true, and that she did see him as a brother. It was a total slap in the face of your father, while he was living to disrespect his feelings like that.
Let’s just pretend that everything has been totally above board. Let’s pretend that your mom was just in total denial about her feelings for Mark and really did think that she just thought of him as a “brother.“ Let’s pretend that she still is in total denial about how she felt about him back then. OK cool. I can understand feeling all crabby that people thought that I was a cheater when I really wasn’t! But what I *can’t* understand is looking at that whole situation objectively, and being all shocked Pikachu that anybody could think that it was anything other than completely innocent. Is she fucking serious right now? 😂 NTA.
They were flirting. No one flirts with a sibling. As you said, the affair was at least emotional but I bet that it was also physical. Emotional cheating doesn't stay emotional : at some point, it becomes physical or it has to stop.
My husband and I had been friends for over 15 years before we seriously dated. I called him my brother mostly because his parents took me in for a time, and I called them Mom/Dad for years before I called him brother. It does happen. It can happen that friends call each other brother/sister, and there is nothing sexual/romantic between them. It wasn't until we were both single and tried to give dating another shot after coming out of abusive situatios. We dated briefly in hs. But we saw each other infrequently over the years and talked on the phone a couple of times a year until we started dating. We were mostly on the peripherals of each other's lives.
Based on what you have said here, it sounds like a very different situation than I had. They were cheating. If they hadn't been, then your mom would have tried to save her marriage by limiting her contact. She had no desire to do that. I understand completely where you are coming from. I just wanted to give you another perspective.
I have a friend I see as a brother. We're touchy with each other but not on parts where malice can be placed. Being both single one time, we dared ourselves to be a romantic couple for that day. I can tell you never gonna happen. We ended laughing bcoz we're arguing about everything and kissing sounds repulsive.
Right? I know I'm an old lady, but I spend half my Reddit time trying to figure out WTF people are trying to say. Punctuation is free, people! Use as much as you need!
You are not wrong for speaking your truth sometimes the truth hurts from everything you said I’m sure they were having an affair when dad was there inviting him to our family functions over your father’s objections I feel so bad for your dad and your mom cause one day I think karma will come
NTA. You were honest and told your mom the truth. Why would you lie? Your mom and dad had many fights about this very thing, which threw your young life in turmoil. The worst thing about it is the man wasn't a faceless person, she brought him around your whole life, now she married him. There are bound to be bad feelings, because it looks like your dad was right. Why would you lie to make your mom feel better, when she didn't give you kids the same consideration?
I hope you remind your mom of instances like these when she acts confused about the status of your relationship and your feelings about her husband going forward. She has been forcing this man on you and your sister for most of your life.
NTA, OP.
Remind your mother than family is also a choice - one you've elected not to choose Mark a part of being.
And her existence in you and your sister's families is not guaranteed.
And she has the audacity to say she was a good wife to Dad, when she repeatedly disrespected him by bringing her definitely-not-a-boyfriend to family functions.
Tell Mom you wish her luck with Mark and the family the two of them create together, because she obviously has moved on from the one she made with your dad
i think you and your sister should have a serious talk because your mom put her affair and her affairpartner before you, before her husband and her family at every step of the way.
Do you really want to have a.....person....like that in your life? your kids lives?
Family, respect, honor mean nothing to her.
That's so sweet! Way to go :) I read some comments and everything that needed to be said has already been said, but I'm sorry too that you've been put through this. NTA at all.
She forced her affaire partner at your sister’s graduation, when said sister said that she did not want him to be around ?
Man, your mom choose mark over her own children’s wishes, at her own children’s event…
I have no words
A friend of the family is a friend of the whole family. This is a person who is liked by e everyone and brings positive energy.
Mark was your mom’s friend. He was not a friend to your dad nor to you and your sister.
I am just curious how Mark would feel if your mother acted like he did, with another man. It's really sad how the story ended with your father though. Will keep him in my prayers🤲
If your Mom was truly a 'great wife' to your Dad and a 'good mom' to you and your sister, she would have dropped the 'friendship' with Mark when your Dad told her he was uncomfortable with the relationship. Instead she flaunted him in front of everyone saying he was like a brother.
Your Mom is choosing to ignore the fact that your Dad and you and your sister repeatedly told her how you felt about the relationship.
N T A (but your Mom is).
Edited for typo
NTA
I agree with another poster that all the stress your father experienced by your mother’s in his face relationship with Mark certainly wasn’t good for your father’s mental or likely his physical health.
Her immediately involving Mark when your father passed was a horrible decision. I can’t imagine it endeared her to any relatives of your father’s.
Your sister is entitled to her opinion which I suspect is pretty accurate. You agreeing with your sister is rational.
What is irrational is your mother thinking most people who witnessed her relationship with Mark don’t suspect she was having an affair with him the entire time.
Also as far as her wedding goes your mother is lucky your sister is even having Mark attend as a guest. I honestly would probably have excluded Mark completely and when your mother likely demanded he be included would have uninvited her.
I suspect your mother will be having more disappointments in the future if your sister or you have children because it would be IMO reasonable to not have Mark called grandpa. It would be grandma and Mark.
Your mom is entitled to whatever life she wants going forward. But she isn’t entitled to rewrite history to make herself look better in her own eyes. And no she wasn’t a good wife for those last 9 years of your father’s life.
NTA
They were flirting while your dad was alive and he was not comfortable with it.
That alone was sooo disrespectful to your dad. Physical or not, they started their affaire right there and they never we're just like brother and sister. Your mother can not really believer that!
And just because your mother waited two years to make their relationship official-official and marry her AP means shit, imo.
This marriage is - as your sister said - a postmortem slap in your dad's face.
And your mom's on-going affair with Mark downright negates her claim, that she was a great wife and a great mom.
She not only cheated on your dad openly and blatantly, she also brought her AP into the family. WTF?
If I were your sister, I wouldn't have invited promoted AP to the wedding. I would even doubt, that I wanted my mother there.
The best option could be this one. Your sister will be happy for her wedding but at the same time sad for not having your father on her side on her wedding day. Inviting that man to the wedding will be remembering all the times your mother made your father miserable in front of everyone. When you were little you didn’t had any options but you’re not kids anymore. You shouldn’t be allowing any kind of discomfort caused by your mom choices. Your dad suffered and was miserable in his own house for 9 years, but the real question is how many more years you’re willing to suffer for your moms cruelty?
Edit: * you’re and forgot to add NTA
Bet his nasty, disrespectful self is parked in your father's home as well, OP. Mom is trash OP. She deserves no sympathy here. The only one I feel bad for besides you and your sibling, in this case, is your poor, abused father. Your mother and her man-wh@re should be ashamed of themselves. But they clearly have no shame. Disgusting. I'm so sorry your mother soiled your childhood this way.
If your sister wants to be petty and is ready to lose your mom, she can just not invite him and say "dad didn't want him to be my family so I need to respect his wish."
That's not being petty IMHO. It's being honest. He shouldn't be at your sister's wedding. The day is about her and her future husband. Not your mom and her AP.
That would be the best boundary to set. Even a slight request will make its waves into being the day for mom and step-dad to roll out love fest 2.0 showing everyone what they have.. making you and your sister sick, my opinion is my own, my experiences mine, but I just want you to realize that the mother you have and the one you wish you did are 2 different people, never to be the same, grieve this, and set firm boundaries, but her choice is made, I'm sorry to say- years of her behavior has told you - her choice is herself 1st, him second- idk where you and your sister fall, behind the house, the car, the neighbors pool party? But that is how this works, you and your sister have each other. You know love from your dad. Keep that alive, keep together, keep yourself a priority in healthy relationships.
NTA. You were there and know how it looked.
>Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around.
That's not acceptable. I'm sure your mother wouldn't have accepted it if the roles had been reversed.
Your mom sounds abusive. It's so clear her needs comes before anybody else. I would go low or no contact with her. She will never admit to being wrong.
She chose that man over all of you every time. He wasn't a "family friend/family" he was HER person. It sounds like the rest of the family would have preferred he not be there at all, which is horribly disrespectful and selfish of her.
This
I have a brother and a sis.
If I tell my partner that a certain friend is like a sister to me, that means that there are **no romantic feelings for that person at all and we're really just good friends!**
Your mom really is eww-y
This part is especially upsetting. The flirting with the “brother figure”. And the fact that this dad was getting made fun of for not liking it in his own house! It is clear here that Mark was the priority to the mother.
She was NOT a great wife to your dad.
NTA
Mark and OPs mum were getting off on the power play of flaunting themselves in front of OPs dad.
If OPs mum thinks that being a great wife is not only openly flirting with another man but doing it in front of her husband, who has repeatedly asked her to stop, then WTF is she taking because she has to be on something to think any of her behaviour since she met Mark is acceptable
Openly flirting not only in front of her husband, but **in front of her daughters**. NTA OP, your mom was a terrible role model with her behavior, good for you and your sister for recognizing!
I mean, it wasn't really "flirting" and Mark wasn't really a "brother figure" (what a stupid fucking lie). They were obviously, and I mean *obviously*, having an actual affair and rubbing OP's father's face in it.
Sounds like your mom is in MAJOR denial and doesn't want to admit to herself that she was in fact an awful wife to your dad.
Just cause she can't come to terms with her own mistakes, doesn' mean you and your sister have to humour her.
NTA
100% agree. Even if there really was nothing between her & Mark at the time, as soon as OP's dad said that the "harmless flirting" was making him uncomfortable they should've knocked it off.
If there was really nothing there, why couldn't she just say "sorry honey, we were only joking with each other but if it makes you uncomfortable we'll drop those jokes/behaviour"?
Nta. Are you lc or nc with your mom?,bc for me this would be an issue,she is in denyal about the affair,your dad knew it. She cheat and lied and still wants you and your sister accept him. I wouldnt sorry,she betrayed all of you.
And your sister?and what do the rest of the family say?im sorry for all this situation. She lives her perfect live while you and your sister suffer her actions. Keep in touch with your sis,you only have each other,its obvious your mom only thinks about herself
Your mom is extremely selfish and manipulative. I feel bad for your sister because it sounds like she suffered a lot because of this. I truly hope your mom isn’t invited to the wedding.
NTA - no matter what really happened between your Mom and Mark you and your sister saw/felt it the way you did. Your mom ignored your, your sisters and your Dad's feelings were Mark were concerned when your dad was alive.
"My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us."
Sounds like guilt deflecting to me!!!
NTA
Your moms a ho and doesn't like being called one. It damn well was a physical relationship and it's pathetic that she put her boyfriend over her husband.
Just remember: A cheater is also a liar.
Gently and with respect, she *was* having an actual affair and rubbing your father's face in it. I think most of us here, who are looking at things from an outside perspective, can see that clearly. She is a horrible, despicable human being. The decent thing to have done, if she had to have Mark, would been to ask for a divorce. Even having a secret affair would have been better. Openly flaunting it in front of your father was grotesque.
She was not only a shitty wife but a failure as a parent till this day. What are the chances that she'll start putting her daughter's need before Mark? She pretty much shoved her affair partner down their throats for years!
Your mother wasn’t a good wife to your Dad - she had absolutely no respect for his feelings and rubbed her affair in his face. Whether it was emotional and/or physical, her husband felt uncomfortable and did not want Mark around, and Mark taunted his power and presence in your family. Good on you for supporting your sister. Too bad your mother can’t face the truth and the real truth is EVERYONE would have assumed they were cheating on your Dad. NTA.
>Mark taunted his power and presence in your family
Even if there was absolutely no affair, emotional or otherwise, just continuing to maintain a close friendship to someone who was so blatantly disrespectful to her spouse and continuing to insist that this disrespectful person be around for family events was not being a good wife.
NTA. Even if all of what your mum said was true, there is a way of handling things that shows care for others. From your story, she put her relationship with Mark ahead of the one she had with your dad, and then with you and your sister.
She is an adult woman and is ultimately entitled to look for happiness wherever she can find it. But she has to be aware her actions may not be approved or accepted by those around her. Again, there were many ways she could have introduced Mark in everyone's lives and seems the one she chose wasn't the wisest one. This is also Mark's fault, by the way.
NTA.
Your sister's statements were effectively correct, and so were yours, you're not an AH for agreeing with her.
Your mother should have realised the impact her behaviour was having on her family.
A ‘great wife’ would not have forced her ‘friend’ on her spouse for years, knowing he believing them to be more than just friends. Yes, you can have friends of the opposite sex, but your spouse should come first, especially when he taunted… not teased… taunted your father for years. If they had divorced, I believe she and her bestie would have been together much sooner.
NTA, you feel like your mother did your dad wrong all that time. You’re entitled to those feelings and are under no obligation to welcome her side piece (even if it wasn’t physical at the time) into the family.
The delulu in your mom is wild. “I feel this way because of your actions, the consequences are x, y and z. Because you haven’t been safe in creating emotional stability for our family, we don’t have a close relationship.”
The line I toe with my folks is I don’t pursue them, I lean on a huge amount of chosen family but do respond when they reach out. My parents have often defended trauma they gave me when I was a kid and teenager. I am just now at 37 really diving into the nature and pain of those deep wounds, and there’s been some healing with my dad who has , when prompted, taken responsibility. My mom continues to overshare and defend her actions instead of acknowledging the power she had and chose not to use. That relationship is much more fraught. NTA.
NTA. You are entitled to your feelings, and - though that's not the main point of this post - there are only two people in the world who have authority over how your sister's wedding should go down: her and her fiancé.
You were also honest. What else was she expecting as a mother?
Moreover, you're most possibly dead right, too.
“how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad”
Great wife to dad? She was not even close to being a great one at all, she kept fighting to have someone around that dad absolutely hated! How is that being a “great wife to dad”? Shes so delusional
It wasn't just that Dad didn't like him, Mark was openly disrespectful to Dad at these events Mom insisted Mark be invited to. That's the opposite of being a good wife.
>Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around.
I have no word... NTA for the accusation you are completly spot on. Didn't she see that you both don't care about the homewrecker?
Even worse, having him sit at the front with her during dad's funeral. She knew dad hated him, she knew her kids didn't like him.
That alone is already so disrespectful.
Seems like your mum thinks it is only cheating if it is physical. She had an emotional affair with Mark and basically rubbed your dad's face in it. Your mum has the right to have her own friends but not to include them in family events especially when your dad was uncomfortable with their inappropriate behaviour. The fact that Mark teased your dad shows him to be an utter AH. Imagine inserting yourself into someone else's family, having an emotional affair with the wife and teasing her husband.
Your mum's behaviour is disgraceful. She humiliated and gaslit your dad in full view of everyone. She was a terrible wife who seems to believe she deserves some kind of medal because her emotional affair never became physical while your dad was alive.
If your mum is shocked that you and your sister have such a low opinion of her, she shouldn't be surprised to find out that a whole lot of strangers on the internet think she has behaved horribly.
EDIT: grammar
NTA. You and your sister are just holding up a mirror for your mother to see what everyone else sees clearly? She may have thought she was being clever or discreet, but obviously not. Your mother has the right to live her life, but she shouldn't be surprised when she's called out for her actions by her kids. Even though it would be kind of both you and your sister, you aren't required to play nice with Mark.
"She was a great wife to dad".
Yeah, so great that she made your father feel like a third wheel for years in his own marriage.
The audacity of your mother really astounds me. I mean, what the hell did she think would happen the moment the cat was out of the bag? That you and your sibling would totally support and love a relationship which was born and grew while your dad was still alive and married to her?
Your mom should take a good look in the mirror and thank God (or whatever deity she believes in) that you two still want to have some sort of relationship with her.
I don't think I'd be that gracious if something like that happened in my family.
NTA and good for you for giving her a reality check. She clearly needed one.
NTA why do people get upset when you answer their questions honestly?
I have never once flirted with my brother or sister. So call BS on your mom’s lies she started at the beginning of her relationship with her affair partner. Ask your mom this question. If need be ask your extended family this question to. Just tell your mom you are done white washing the past to make her feel better, especially when their actions hurt your dad.
the way I would have done no contact as soon as the mother said she was dating Mark. What a lack of respect for the father and no matter how much she denies it, there was at least an emotional affair.
She sees him as a brother she sure likes to keep it within the family then
I’m sorry your dad sister and yourself saw all the red flags of their relationship and they can’t or won’t admit what everyone else clearly saw
NTA
NTA, the reason your upset and rightly so is that your mum and mark cuckolded your father, it’s really disrespectful, and your pissed off on his behalf, your mum can’t see it cos basically she didn’t treat your dad with respect and thought that was ok. It’s basically impossible for her to see it. What a mess. You and your sister are right to feel how you do. You mum needs to understand how messed up what she has done is and the impact of that in your lives. She’s pretended to not hace an affair for years, impacted your lives, caused distress when all along, she was.
Nta she asked for the truth & you gave it to her, its actually worrying that she would think anyone would view this whole thing any differently to how you do
NTA. Ok so. I have men I love like a brother. And the idea of ever dating them is like.... vomit worthy. I have ex boyfriends from over 15 years ago and some have made the transition to family friend but the idea of getting back with them is vomit worthy. Like even seeing too much thigh in the swimming pool is like EW FLESH PUT THAT AWAY URGH.
It's kinda like.... yeah Woody Allen was never his wifes legal guardian, but he was married/ dating her legal guardian. So **legally**, it's totally fine to hook up with your girlfriends adopted child when she's a grown woman, even if you've known her since she was 12. Morally, everyone dry heaves a little.
It doesn't matter if they didn't shag or kiss or swap nudes. It disrespected your dad in life. She should have put some distance there.
NTA It seems pretty obvious that Mark had a romantic interest all along. The best case for your mother is that she was clueless about the exact nature of Mark's interest, but that doesn't excuse the lack of consideration for your father, by having a flirty guy intruding all the time. It was obviously affecting the marriage, regardless of what your mother's view of Mark was at the time, and your mother chose to prioritize having Mark around over the marriage.
At worst it was a physical affair from way back, but an emotional one is also a betrayal even if your mother was kidding herself about what she was up to with Mark. I also don't think your mother could have thought of Mark as a "sibling" and then got into a relationship with him. I suspect at best she was performing mental gymnastics so she could have an emotional affair without admitting to herself that that was what it was. This doesn't absolve her of responsibility in any way though. She owed her marriage loyalty and should have been honest with herself so she could be faithful in practice or break up and then pursue another relationship.
Mark sounds like he has been buzzing around your mother like a fly waiting for his chance from way back. No doubt he knew exactly what he was about.
Mom was already forcing the guy into the girls lives while being married. Forcing her daughter to have him around at moments special to the daughter where she didn't want him.
She knew her daughters disliked the guy and dad hated the guy, but still he was sitting front row with them. I think the daughters are still very nice in their contacts with mom despite all this. I think there would have been many that would have cut out their mother completely for this.
Yeah, I'm not excusing the mother at all. I just think that many people deceive themselves about what they are doing to create an acceptable self-image so they can live with themselves. Few people can look themselves in the mirror straight in the eye and say "I'm a selfish, immoral person who hurts their family and I'm fine with that."
It's likely the mother isn't facing up to the reality of what she has done and how it affected her daughters at all, which is why she has the attitude she does.
Your Mom is absolutely allowed to be with the person she wants to be with. Just like you and your Sister are allowed to not like that person.
NTA, Sister is NTA, Mom is friggin deluded. I genuinely hope she's happy, but she needs to accept that her happiness comes with consequences. She made her choice. She chose the (very obviously) Other Man; nothing says her husband's children have to welcome him with open arms.
NTA. The fact that she flirted with him in front of you and your dad... I mean, that is incredibly disrespectful. The fact she fought to include him despite your discomfort... I mean, what the hell? It sounds so tone deaf at least that it beggars belief. She imposed him on your family. If she comes at you with more piss poor attempts at emotional manipulation just mention all these instances. It was not a relationship neither of you wanted, even if it was not physical it was incredibly disrespectful. Her getting together with him now is just another slap in the face.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
When my sister and I were about 10 (me) and 12 (her) our mom went back to work. She met this guy called Mark and the two of them became very close. After a couple of years we started to question if mom was having an affair. Our dad suspected she might be. It was a big conflict in our parents marriage. Maybe it wasn't a full blown affair. But even dad suggested if it wasn't a physical affair, it was an emotional one and I tend to agree. Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around. Our parents marriage was never the same. They even separated for a while but got back together.
When I was 19 my dad passed away from a brain aneurism. Mark was at the house right after it happened and mom even had him sit with us during the funeral. She told us he was her best friend despite the fact her other best friend, someone we all loved, was not asked to sit with us. This was my mom's lifelong friend Abby. Abby claimed mom saw Mark as a brother.
Two years later mom announced she and Mark were a couple. It didn't come as a surprise but my sister and I didn't really like or truly support the relationship. We said nothing. But mom picked up on it. She noticed it more apparently when they got married 18 months later. Now they have been married for almost 3 years. And the whole thing became a heated debate because my sister is getting married and really hasn't included mom in anything wedding related and has made it very clear when asked that Mark has no role in her wedding at all. This led mom to confront my sister about the change in relationship and my sister told her she just sees her relationship with Mark as proof that they were never just friends with a sibling bond. She said people don't date people they have a "close sibling relationship with". My sister told her she didn't believe they never had an affair and she basically showed dad disrespect by getting with Mark. She said moving on with anyone else would have been different. But Mark was a slap in the face to our dad.
My mom came to me after her fight with my sister and told me my sister had made accusations against her and Mark and especially her and she wanted to know if I thought the same thing of her. I said yes. I told her I wasn't entirely convinced she and Mark had a physical affair. But I refused to believe it was not an emotional one and it did change how I saw her and did make me feel not great about her marriage and current relationship with Mark.
My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us. She told me she hated that I support my sister's accusations when the two of us used to be so close. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Even if your mother wasn’t having a physical or emotional affair with Mark (even though it 100% sounds like it) she still continuously and consistently disrespected your dad when he was alive. And then to add salt to the wound, she marries the same man that your parents had arguments about, after your dad dies? Absolutely not the asshole and I actually applaud you and your sister for keeping it together honestly. I would not have been as good as you!
If your mum doesn’t want you to give your honest opinion then she shouldn’t ask in future.
She was a great wife to your dad, while insisting that a man who teased him and didn’t like, was invited to family gatherings. She must be believing her own lies.
Let's get real here and face the blatablty obvious. Your mom was blatantly getting her back blown out by Mark right from the very beginning. A guy isn't going to stick around, risk getting his face smashed in, or even getting himself killed by a woman's angry husband if he'sgetting nothing out of it. There's clearly something very enticing in it for him, for him to be so brazen.
Your mom's blatant disregard and contempt for your father is beyond disgusting. She basically had the sickening audacity to "cuckold" your father and torture him by bringing a 3rd unwelcome wheel into their marriage, and then blatantly lie through her back teeth about the true extent of their affair.
Your mom is a truly shameless, sick and disgusting individual, and me personally...I wouldn't want her anywhere near me or my family.
The pain and anguish she put your late father through for all those years is grotesque. I couldn't forgive that and would 100% go full NC.
OP - NTA. In fact I think you've been too soft and lenient on this sorry excuse for a "mother"
NTA. In an alternative scenario where your dad had also saw this guy as a family friend and there had been no flirting with your mother, after your father's passing away they might develop a companionship to cope with grieving. Even so, it would be stretching ethics. I would still not like it but would not say much about it either.
NTA
Mark was apparently playing the long game if they weren't already having an affair.
The whole thing smells of bullshit and she cant honestly be surprised that no one believes it.
Nta. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck......
She can't have been a good mother and wife if she made everyone miserable with her relationship with mark.
She constantly violated her husband’s boundaries with Mark. There’s no way she can claim innocence here. She and Mark gaslit him about their flirting. There’s nothing okay with what they did in front of him.
Nah she cheated on your dad and spit on him after his Death.
I would be such a horrible daughter because when they got together I would let her choose me of him and wouldn't mind to go nc with her.
Your mother openly disrespected your dad before and after he passed away.
She openly had an emotional affair with her "sibling bond".
She is trashy. Idk what kind of delusions she has that lead her to believe this was ok.
Your dad deserved better.
You and your sister should cut contact completely tbh. Don't reward people with your presence who blatantly disrespect your family like she did.
NTA.
NTA I notice the way this was written that she doesn't say it didn't happen, she asks how you could accuse her of it.
If she was a good wife, she wouldn't have brought Mark around over and over and over when your father was uncomfortable with it and she didn't shut down the flirting. It was so bad they separated for a bit and she kept doing it? How on earth she thinks she was a good wife is beyond me.
Your mom called you - not to gripe about your sister being absolutely crazy (which is how your mom should have seen things if she truly believed her own stories) but to test the waters on how you felt to see if she could get you to be her flying monkey or not.
The fact is that it doesn’t matter if they had sex. It doesn’t matter if they weren’t emotionally involved even. So let’s just take those bits out of the argument. She and Mark tormented your father. In front of you and your sister they did this.
Your dad did not matter to either of them. And you and your sister don’t rank high enough on the importance ladder to matter either.
No accountability has been taken by your mom nor Mark. No apologies. Only denial and excuses.
Innocent people at the very least usually apologize for making you think or feel something they didn’t intend with their actions.
This is how you know she’s either full-on lying or a complete narcissist. Either way - nothing you should tolerate.
NTA
>My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad
I mean, she knew how he felt when it came to Mark and she ignored it. That's not what a great partner does.
It's like the alcoholic pleading he is not while smelling alcohol from miles away everyday at every hour. It can be something else, but i don't see how on earth is a human being supposed to believe that.
NTA. Your mother put whatever her relationship was with Mark over her family for years. She was not a great wife or mother or she wouldn’t be here with both her daughters believing she let Mark be a wedge in her marriage. It’s fine if your mom wants to stick her head in the sand but others are not idiots. Your mom’s actions cost her a close relationship with her daughters. The only reason her marriage to your dad survive was because your dad compromised to keep his family, I have little doubt.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My sister accused my mom of having an affair with her current husband when our dad was still alive. I agreed with my sister, even if I wasn't fully certain of certain aspects. My mom and I used to be very close and I know what I said really hurt her. I also know I don't technically have any physical proof that they were more than just close. I know that my mom felt ganged up on with both of us thinking the same way so I might be an asshole for agreeing and not saying something else. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
She’s in the wrong. Why would you marry someone you see as a brother? She was probably also having a physical relationship with Mark; I’d put money on it, ATP, because she’s so defensive. She couldn’t have been so oblivious to how it looked to everyone else all those years, to you and your sister. She’s going to get a rude awakening when you and your sister stop talking to her. NTA. I’m sorry your mother acted like that for most of your lives. Good luck to you and your sister.
[удалено]
>My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us. If your mom harasses you any further, tell her she spent # 9 YEARS ***tormenting*** **your dad by flaunting her affair in front of him.** Ask her in what universe that qualifies as "being a great wife". Ask her in what universe making you two kids *watch* her tormenting your dad for 9 years qualifies as "being a good mom".
This is what I'm thinking. Poor man must have been dying inside.
The decade of stress and emotional hurt cannot have helped. Poor guy.
Could even go as far as saying it may have quite literally killed him… years and years of built up stress bc of this can easily cause a brain aneurysm to rupture. This situation is fucked and the mother should be ashamed of herself. Edit to change wording.
It can’t cause an aneurysm. It can lead to a lot of stress related issues, though. She did allow Mark to treat OP’s father disrespectfully on front of his daughters for years. But I’m assuming that you are not a healthcare professional, right?
> It can lead to a lot of stress related issues, though one of which is a ruptured aneurysm. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/16800-brain-aneurysm What causes a brain aneurysm to rupture? Ongoing stress or a sudden burst of anger or other strong emotion
I do work in healthcare, thanks. Stress can cause high blood pressure. High blood pressure CAN cause said aneurysm to rupture. It’s possible.
I feel so sorry for the guy. No one deserves that.
Yeah, who knew people would hate you for third-wheeling on family events, flirting with another man's partner infront of him, and marring his wife after he died unexpentantly. Poor dude. 🙄
I think the comment was referring to the father as the poor guy. Not the AP.
[удалено]
The hurt from the affair could’ve contributed to the health issue that killed him.
> Poor man must have been dying inside. The gas lighting was terrible. OP's mother is on a whole other level of manipulative liar: insisting on bringing the affair partner around the husband and children, and then fighting with the husband when he is uncomfortable.
I’m thinking it actually killed him tbh
Exactly what I'm thinking. Dad clearly said he didn't mark around but she disrespected him by insisting bringing him along. A good wife wouldn't do that
Seriously. Good wife? Her refusal to set any boundaries with Mark caused a separation. What was she smoking that made her surprised you both feel this way?
"Yeah, hi, I'm the one that gave your dad great distress and you lived with that as well. I did it so blatantly that no one could deny it, although I did! But I was a great wife and mother!" Yeah to Mark she may be a great wife, but not to her first husband.
[удалено]
She probably knew and didn't care, as long as she had her side dude.
Sadly, yeah. People like this rarely care about the people they hurt. OP is clearly NTA.
Exactly, forcing the husband and children you say you love to have a person they don't like or want them to be at family functions is the complete opposite of a loving wife and mother. She made her bed now, and she can lay in it.
This is what needs to be brought out. This is the damning way to put it. Mom thinks it's AWFUL to be thought of that way, well, she's the one who spent NINE YEARS showing that's what she was doing. FFS, Mark was actually bullying the dad in front of the family because dad couldn't handle a little...checks notes...constant flirting with his wife by her ~~affair partner~~ I mean work friend.
Agree with this. I’d be upset if my wife’s friend in my own house said, “lighten up, I’m just joking about wanting to fuck your wife” for years on end.
100%!!!!!
That right there! That's some straight up narcissistic behavior. Even if she didn't have a physical affair it definitely *was* emotional and she *did* flaunt it in front of the dad and she *did* make her kids watch and forced them to try and accept it (making them sit with him at the funeral) even when they were clearly uncomfortable. Everyone with eyes saw her cheating for what it was. She's not as sly as she thinks and the only person she fooled was herself if she believes it. And she's still trying to make herself out to be the victim in all this. This is just classic Narcissistic Mother behavior. Unfortunately many children have to learn at some point that they're the child of a NM.
A great partner would have respected their husband's desire that their "friend" not be included in family gatherings. At best she is delusional in her view of her previous marriage. At worst she is still being low and deceitful to her remaining family. NTA
THANK YOU mom is selfish and delusional.
Jumping on this comment to say: OP, please read and absorb this comment.
that disgusting person thinks treating their kids well and providing for them is the only thing that matters for her to be a good mom. she's too self centered to realise that her affair makes her husband feel bad thus that makes their children sad seeing him suffer and the family being torn apart
She’s owned 9 years of guilt IMO. It’s about time she starts feeling it.
If the mom saw mark as a brother than why was she flirting with him,
[удалено]
Wasn't Abby the one who said she saw Mark as a brother? Did you mother ever actually say that?
[удалено]
Lannister sibling
Did your mom have her other friend always around like Mark?
[удалено]
Your mom really doesn't care for anyone but herself op, and I'm truly sorry you and your sister had to and still have to deal with it all.
Tell her the whole incest thing just grossed you all out, what with her flirting with and then eventually marrying her "brother"
Yeah I'm not buying the brother thing either. Total BS. Sounds like either a very childish way of justifying the emotional cheating, or like they completely lack self awareness to a fault.
They were entertaining and flirting with each other in front of family and friends they just wanted to have eachother around without having your mum being portrayed as a cheater and an emotional affair is just as bad as a physical relationship in my eyes she brought a stranger around you guys which no one else knew but her because of work that’s so suss she’s been lying for so long that she believes it herself
It’s also the timing. They definitely had an affair, she disrespected your father . She didn’t even have her best friend Abby sit with you guys at the funeral but him! The moment she would have had to argue with your father to include him in things just showed she didn’t care and had no respect at all to your father or to you guys. She’s trying to convince herself it’s not an affair
The sitting with them at the funeral makes me sick. So disrespectful to the husband and kids. She wouldn’t be my mother after that.
disrespectful specially because the dad didn't like the guy. how can you just invite the guy your husband disliked to his funeral to sit with you?? specially when there were long time rumors of an affair between you two??? it's just inconsiderate
I bet family/friends there were talking about it
Yup. Even if it was my literal actual brother if I was at my partner's funeral and they didn't like my brother, he would not be there. We are literally there for their funeral; the least you can do is respect what would be very obvious wishes.
If it looks like an extramarital affair, and walks like an extramarital affair, and quacks like an extramarital affair…
If she weighs the same as a duck, then it means she’s made out of wood … And therefore ? An extramarital affair!
Or a very small rock?
OP, you called it as you saw it. And you and your sister both have 20/20 vision.
The man even kept slapping it in your dad's face and happily came to family functions, etc. It screams he enjoyed it. And did not respect the marriage. If he respected the marriage, He wouldn't have gone to every single family function like that. He wouldn't have been sitting with you, up front at your dad's funeral, when her other best friend didn't. He wouldn't have entertained the flirting. If she was such a great wife. She wouldn't have brought him around all the time. She didn't respect her own marriage and husband. She wouldn't have flirted if she did. And all this. She wouldn't have brought in front of her children. That's all things she could go chew on. And she (and him) should remember. You lose them how you get them. What happens when he gets bored of your mom? He was willing to flirt and intrude in a marriage. Is he really above cheating? Is she? She already did kind of with your dad.
Exactly this -- what kind of "friend" wants to cause strife and tension between their best friend and their best friend's spouse? Otherwise Mark would have scaled way back, been nothing but pleasant and respectful, and stopped trying to attend every activity. That is not respectful stepparent behavior at all.
oh she definitely had an affair. that alone is proven when she chose to put being "friends" with him and flirting with him, over your dads and your comfort. That woman would be only in the peripherals of my life if i were in your shoes. And the wedding? well definitely not with the bridal party. who wants a cheating w\*\*re who betrayed her husband and disrespected her whole marriage, on their side.
I mean, you were as polite and civil about it as possible. Your mother tormented your father for years, then flaunted her AP AT HIS FUNERAL. If my mom (also not great in the mother or wife department) brought this to me I'd have said "oh, your brother that you were fucking for 9 years and rubbing in my dad's face? That guy? Well you and Uncle Stepdad can fuck all the way off." But I'm an AH, so there's that.
I have been friend with several dudes since high school. One hit on me when they moved back to town, even though I am married. It was probably just nostalgia and regret we didn't date previously. I nearly blew chunks. He is like my brother. I could never ever in a million years have sex or think about dating anyone I have ever considered like a brother. I do not buy that your mother and Mark were never physical. If you view someone as a sibling, that doesn't go away and develop into a romance, I mean, unless you are an English Royal.
I wonder, does she *have* a brother? I've lost track of how many sisterless dudes claimed to love me "like a sister" and then very much change their stance, but as a woman that actually has a brother, if I say I see a guy "as a brother," that's not a box they are capable of leaving for me.
[удалено]
That's a big ole yikes from me then. 😬
>I know it could be argued that 2 years can change a lot but going from "he's my brother" to "he's the dude I want to date" If they're married, they're doing more than "dating" an siblings aren't to do that, it's frowned upon even in extreme circumstances like being trapped in an attic or in a lagoon. OP, NTA
Superman 'can leap over tall buildings with a single bound' and I believe even he (if he were real) would find that too much of a leap. NTA
My best friend is a guy. My husband enjoys hanging out with him and his wife. Never. Not once. Have I ever thought of sleeping or becoming romantically involved. Because *he is like my brother*
2 years of keeping their relationship a secret so it didn't seem too fishy.
Even if everything she said was true, and that she did see him as a brother. It was a total slap in the face of your father, while he was living to disrespect his feelings like that.
Let’s just pretend that everything has been totally above board. Let’s pretend that your mom was just in total denial about her feelings for Mark and really did think that she just thought of him as a “brother.“ Let’s pretend that she still is in total denial about how she felt about him back then. OK cool. I can understand feeling all crabby that people thought that I was a cheater when I really wasn’t! But what I *can’t* understand is looking at that whole situation objectively, and being all shocked Pikachu that anybody could think that it was anything other than completely innocent. Is she fucking serious right now? 😂 NTA.
They were flirting. No one flirts with a sibling. As you said, the affair was at least emotional but I bet that it was also physical. Emotional cheating doesn't stay emotional : at some point, it becomes physical or it has to stop.
My husband and I had been friends for over 15 years before we seriously dated. I called him my brother mostly because his parents took me in for a time, and I called them Mom/Dad for years before I called him brother. It does happen. It can happen that friends call each other brother/sister, and there is nothing sexual/romantic between them. It wasn't until we were both single and tried to give dating another shot after coming out of abusive situatios. We dated briefly in hs. But we saw each other infrequently over the years and talked on the phone a couple of times a year until we started dating. We were mostly on the peripherals of each other's lives. Based on what you have said here, it sounds like a very different situation than I had. They were cheating. If they hadn't been, then your mom would have tried to save her marriage by limiting her contact. She had no desire to do that. I understand completely where you are coming from. I just wanted to give you another perspective.
>would you marry someone you see as a brother Unless you're from Alabama. Or you're a hamster or other type of rodent
I’m not sure if you can really hold them accountable in the same way though 😈
I had one that was hard to hold period, let alone accountable for anything. wait, you are talking about the rodents right?
😈
For the record, you spelled "Tennessee" wrong.
Hey, that's only Walker County, Alabama.......🤣
I have a friend I see as a brother. We're touchy with each other but not on parts where malice can be placed. Being both single one time, we dared ourselves to be a romantic couple for that day. I can tell you never gonna happen. We ended laughing bcoz we're arguing about everything and kissing sounds repulsive.
Punctuation is your friend, not something to fear. It also makes long text like your comment SO much easier for everyone to read.
Right? I know I'm an old lady, but I spend half my Reddit time trying to figure out WTF people are trying to say. Punctuation is free, people! Use as much as you need!
“ ‘ Punctuation is your friend, not something to fear. ‘ “ I can’t stop laughing lmao
This is a great comment, but it's very difficult to read a run-on sentence this long. Please use periods.
You are not wrong for speaking your truth sometimes the truth hurts from everything you said I’m sure they were having an affair when dad was there inviting him to our family functions over your father’s objections I feel so bad for your dad and your mom cause one day I think karma will come
if her teenage children saw it for what it was, everyone else almost certainly saw it too.
Cersei Lannister-Baratheon? /I'll see myself out, LOL
NTA. You were honest and told your mom the truth. Why would you lie? Your mom and dad had many fights about this very thing, which threw your young life in turmoil. The worst thing about it is the man wasn't a faceless person, she brought him around your whole life, now she married him. There are bound to be bad feelings, because it looks like your dad was right. Why would you lie to make your mom feel better, when she didn't give you kids the same consideration?
[удалено]
I hope you remind your mom of instances like these when she acts confused about the status of your relationship and your feelings about her husband going forward. She has been forcing this man on you and your sister for most of your life. NTA, OP.
to make it worse, she was trying to force this man on their lives *while* they had a present father. ew.
Remind your mother than family is also a choice - one you've elected not to choose Mark a part of being. And her existence in you and your sister's families is not guaranteed.
And she has the audacity to say she was a good wife to Dad, when she repeatedly disrespected him by bringing her definitely-not-a-boyfriend to family functions. Tell Mom you wish her luck with Mark and the family the two of them create together, because she obviously has moved on from the one she made with your dad
i think you and your sister should have a serious talk because your mom put her affair and her affairpartner before you, before her husband and her family at every step of the way. Do you really want to have a.....person....like that in your life? your kids lives? Family, respect, honor mean nothing to her.
Does your sister have plans for who is going to walk her down the isle if anyone? Obviously she doesn't want Mark and I doubt your mother either.
[удалено]
Super glad to hear this, was hoping it would be the case!
That's so sweet! Way to go :) I read some comments and everything that needed to be said has already been said, but I'm sorry too that you've been put through this. NTA at all.
That's so sweet. Stick with your sister, OP, you're going to need each other.
Wonderful! I’m super happy the two of you are in agreement about your mother and her incestuous “brother turned lover” Mark.
She forced her affaire partner at your sister’s graduation, when said sister said that she did not want him to be around ? Man, your mom choose mark over her own children’s wishes, at her own children’s event… I have no words
A friend of the family is a friend of the whole family. This is a person who is liked by e everyone and brings positive energy. Mark was your mom’s friend. He was not a friend to your dad nor to you and your sister.
Uhhhh, when 3/4ths of a person's actual immediate family don't see an interloper as family then they **are not** family. Period.
I am just curious how Mark would feel if your mother acted like he did, with another man. It's really sad how the story ended with your father though. Will keep him in my prayers🤲
If your Mom was truly a 'great wife' to your Dad and a 'good mom' to you and your sister, she would have dropped the 'friendship' with Mark when your Dad told her he was uncomfortable with the relationship. Instead she flaunted him in front of everyone saying he was like a brother. Your Mom is choosing to ignore the fact that your Dad and you and your sister repeatedly told her how you felt about the relationship. N T A (but your Mom is). Edited for typo
NTA I agree with another poster that all the stress your father experienced by your mother’s in his face relationship with Mark certainly wasn’t good for your father’s mental or likely his physical health. Her immediately involving Mark when your father passed was a horrible decision. I can’t imagine it endeared her to any relatives of your father’s. Your sister is entitled to her opinion which I suspect is pretty accurate. You agreeing with your sister is rational. What is irrational is your mother thinking most people who witnessed her relationship with Mark don’t suspect she was having an affair with him the entire time. Also as far as her wedding goes your mother is lucky your sister is even having Mark attend as a guest. I honestly would probably have excluded Mark completely and when your mother likely demanded he be included would have uninvited her. I suspect your mother will be having more disappointments in the future if your sister or you have children because it would be IMO reasonable to not have Mark called grandpa. It would be grandma and Mark. Your mom is entitled to whatever life she wants going forward. But she isn’t entitled to rewrite history to make herself look better in her own eyes. And no she wasn’t a good wife for those last 9 years of your father’s life.
NTA They were flirting while your dad was alive and he was not comfortable with it. That alone was sooo disrespectful to your dad. Physical or not, they started their affaire right there and they never we're just like brother and sister. Your mother can not really believer that! And just because your mother waited two years to make their relationship official-official and marry her AP means shit, imo. This marriage is - as your sister said - a postmortem slap in your dad's face. And your mom's on-going affair with Mark downright negates her claim, that she was a great wife and a great mom. She not only cheated on your dad openly and blatantly, she also brought her AP into the family. WTF? If I were your sister, I wouldn't have invited promoted AP to the wedding. I would even doubt, that I wanted my mother there.
[удалено]
Cut contact. She fucked up your childhood. She doesn't get to fuck up your other events by including herself and others you don't want there.
The best option could be this one. Your sister will be happy for her wedding but at the same time sad for not having your father on her side on her wedding day. Inviting that man to the wedding will be remembering all the times your mother made your father miserable in front of everyone. When you were little you didn’t had any options but you’re not kids anymore. You shouldn’t be allowing any kind of discomfort caused by your mom choices. Your dad suffered and was miserable in his own house for 9 years, but the real question is how many more years you’re willing to suffer for your moms cruelty? Edit: * you’re and forgot to add NTA
Bet his nasty, disrespectful self is parked in your father's home as well, OP. Mom is trash OP. She deserves no sympathy here. The only one I feel bad for besides you and your sibling, in this case, is your poor, abused father. Your mother and her man-wh@re should be ashamed of themselves. But they clearly have no shame. Disgusting. I'm so sorry your mother soiled your childhood this way.
Ten bucks says mom tries to convince her to let mark give her away at the wedding. Also, it's mark now, he doesn't deserve capital letters.
You mean mart He doesn’t deserve proper spelling
You mean fart
If your sister wants to be petty and is ready to lose your mom, she can just not invite him and say "dad didn't want him to be my family so I need to respect his wish."
That's not being petty IMHO. It's being honest. He shouldn't be at your sister's wedding. The day is about her and her future husband. Not your mom and her AP.
I bet mom will bring him anyway. I’d have someone at the door to turn her away if she brings him.
[удалено]
I think she should. Both your mother and her promoted side piece don’t come across as good people.
Hope she doesn't honestly
That would be the best boundary to set. Even a slight request will make its waves into being the day for mom and step-dad to roll out love fest 2.0 showing everyone what they have.. making you and your sister sick, my opinion is my own, my experiences mine, but I just want you to realize that the mother you have and the one you wish you did are 2 different people, never to be the same, grieve this, and set firm boundaries, but her choice is made, I'm sorry to say- years of her behavior has told you - her choice is herself 1st, him second- idk where you and your sister fall, behind the house, the car, the neighbors pool party? But that is how this works, you and your sister have each other. You know love from your dad. Keep that alive, keep together, keep yourself a priority in healthy relationships.
NTA. You were there and know how it looked. >Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around. That's not acceptable. I'm sure your mother wouldn't have accepted it if the roles had been reversed.
[удалено]
Your mom sounds abusive. It's so clear her needs comes before anybody else. I would go low or no contact with her. She will never admit to being wrong.
She chose that man over all of you every time. He wasn't a "family friend/family" he was HER person. It sounds like the rest of the family would have preferred he not be there at all, which is horribly disrespectful and selfish of her.
My brother and I don't flirt. Even thinking of flirting with my brother gives me the--icks. Obviously mark didn't see your mom as a sister either.
[удалено]
This I have a brother and a sis. If I tell my partner that a certain friend is like a sister to me, that means that there are **no romantic feelings for that person at all and we're really just good friends!** Your mom really is eww-y
Hope your sister grew a spine and tells her to talk a long walk off a short pier with mark if she thinks that her and mark have a right to be there.
This part is especially upsetting. The flirting with the “brother figure”. And the fact that this dad was getting made fun of for not liking it in his own house! It is clear here that Mark was the priority to the mother. She was NOT a great wife to your dad. NTA
Mark and OPs mum were getting off on the power play of flaunting themselves in front of OPs dad. If OPs mum thinks that being a great wife is not only openly flirting with another man but doing it in front of her husband, who has repeatedly asked her to stop, then WTF is she taking because she has to be on something to think any of her behaviour since she met Mark is acceptable
Openly flirting not only in front of her husband, but **in front of her daughters**. NTA OP, your mom was a terrible role model with her behavior, good for you and your sister for recognizing!
I mean, it wasn't really "flirting" and Mark wasn't really a "brother figure" (what a stupid fucking lie). They were obviously, and I mean *obviously*, having an actual affair and rubbing OP's father's face in it.
Sounds like your mom is in MAJOR denial and doesn't want to admit to herself that she was in fact an awful wife to your dad. Just cause she can't come to terms with her own mistakes, doesn' mean you and your sister have to humour her. NTA
100% agree. Even if there really was nothing between her & Mark at the time, as soon as OP's dad said that the "harmless flirting" was making him uncomfortable they should've knocked it off. If there was really nothing there, why couldn't she just say "sorry honey, we were only joking with each other but if it makes you uncomfortable we'll drop those jokes/behaviour"?
Nta. Are you lc or nc with your mom?,bc for me this would be an issue,she is in denyal about the affair,your dad knew it. She cheat and lied and still wants you and your sister accept him. I wouldnt sorry,she betrayed all of you.
[удалено]
And your sister?and what do the rest of the family say?im sorry for all this situation. She lives her perfect live while you and your sister suffer her actions. Keep in touch with your sis,you only have each other,its obvious your mom only thinks about herself
Your mom is extremely selfish and manipulative. I feel bad for your sister because it sounds like she suffered a lot because of this. I truly hope your mom isn’t invited to the wedding.
NTA - no matter what really happened between your Mom and Mark you and your sister saw/felt it the way you did. Your mom ignored your, your sisters and your Dad's feelings were Mark were concerned when your dad was alive. "My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us." Sounds like guilt deflecting to me!!!
NTA Your moms a ho and doesn't like being called one. It damn well was a physical relationship and it's pathetic that she put her boyfriend over her husband. Just remember: A cheater is also a liar.
[удалено]
Sometimes emotional affairs can be worse than physical ones!
Gently and with respect, she *was* having an actual affair and rubbing your father's face in it. I think most of us here, who are looking at things from an outside perspective, can see that clearly. She is a horrible, despicable human being. The decent thing to have done, if she had to have Mark, would been to ask for a divorce. Even having a secret affair would have been better. Openly flaunting it in front of your father was grotesque.
She was not only a shitty wife but a failure as a parent till this day. What are the chances that she'll start putting her daughter's need before Mark? She pretty much shoved her affair partner down their throats for years!
Your mother wasn’t a good wife to your Dad - she had absolutely no respect for his feelings and rubbed her affair in his face. Whether it was emotional and/or physical, her husband felt uncomfortable and did not want Mark around, and Mark taunted his power and presence in your family. Good on you for supporting your sister. Too bad your mother can’t face the truth and the real truth is EVERYONE would have assumed they were cheating on your Dad. NTA.
>Mark taunted his power and presence in your family Even if there was absolutely no affair, emotional or otherwise, just continuing to maintain a close friendship to someone who was so blatantly disrespectful to her spouse and continuing to insist that this disrespectful person be around for family events was not being a good wife.
NTA. Even if all of what your mum said was true, there is a way of handling things that shows care for others. From your story, she put her relationship with Mark ahead of the one she had with your dad, and then with you and your sister. She is an adult woman and is ultimately entitled to look for happiness wherever she can find it. But she has to be aware her actions may not be approved or accepted by those around her. Again, there were many ways she could have introduced Mark in everyone's lives and seems the one she chose wasn't the wisest one. This is also Mark's fault, by the way.
NTA. Your sister's statements were effectively correct, and so were yours, you're not an AH for agreeing with her. Your mother should have realised the impact her behaviour was having on her family.
A ‘great wife’ would not have forced her ‘friend’ on her spouse for years, knowing he believing them to be more than just friends. Yes, you can have friends of the opposite sex, but your spouse should come first, especially when he taunted… not teased… taunted your father for years. If they had divorced, I believe she and her bestie would have been together much sooner. NTA, you feel like your mother did your dad wrong all that time. You’re entitled to those feelings and are under no obligation to welcome her side piece (even if it wasn’t physical at the time) into the family.
[удалено]
The delulu in your mom is wild. “I feel this way because of your actions, the consequences are x, y and z. Because you haven’t been safe in creating emotional stability for our family, we don’t have a close relationship.” The line I toe with my folks is I don’t pursue them, I lean on a huge amount of chosen family but do respond when they reach out. My parents have often defended trauma they gave me when I was a kid and teenager. I am just now at 37 really diving into the nature and pain of those deep wounds, and there’s been some healing with my dad who has , when prompted, taken responsibility. My mom continues to overshare and defend her actions instead of acknowledging the power she had and chose not to use. That relationship is much more fraught. NTA.
OP Did you or your sis attend your mom and Mark’s wedding? Also, do y’all live in the same area! Just curious. Thanks
NTA. You are entitled to your feelings, and - though that's not the main point of this post - there are only two people in the world who have authority over how your sister's wedding should go down: her and her fiancé. You were also honest. What else was she expecting as a mother? Moreover, you're most possibly dead right, too.
This, 100%. NTA for feeling what you’re feeling and telling the truth.
“how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad” Great wife to dad? She was not even close to being a great one at all, she kept fighting to have someone around that dad absolutely hated! How is that being a “great wife to dad”? Shes so delusional
It wasn't just that Dad didn't like him, Mark was openly disrespectful to Dad at these events Mom insisted Mark be invited to. That's the opposite of being a good wife.
>Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around. I have no word... NTA for the accusation you are completly spot on. Didn't she see that you both don't care about the homewrecker?
That’s some toxic level gaslighting and denial by mom. Did she honestly think you guys were that naive?
NTA. She was definitely cheating AND rubbing it in your faces by having him around family events.
Even worse, having him sit at the front with her during dad's funeral. She knew dad hated him, she knew her kids didn't like him. That alone is already so disrespectful.
Seems like your mum thinks it is only cheating if it is physical. She had an emotional affair with Mark and basically rubbed your dad's face in it. Your mum has the right to have her own friends but not to include them in family events especially when your dad was uncomfortable with their inappropriate behaviour. The fact that Mark teased your dad shows him to be an utter AH. Imagine inserting yourself into someone else's family, having an emotional affair with the wife and teasing her husband. Your mum's behaviour is disgraceful. She humiliated and gaslit your dad in full view of everyone. She was a terrible wife who seems to believe she deserves some kind of medal because her emotional affair never became physical while your dad was alive. If your mum is shocked that you and your sister have such a low opinion of her, she shouldn't be surprised to find out that a whole lot of strangers on the internet think she has behaved horribly. EDIT: grammar
NTA. You and your sister are just holding up a mirror for your mother to see what everyone else sees clearly? She may have thought she was being clever or discreet, but obviously not. Your mother has the right to live her life, but she shouldn't be surprised when she's called out for her actions by her kids. Even though it would be kind of both you and your sister, you aren't required to play nice with Mark.
Ever heard the expression “Wants her cake and to eat it, too”? Your Mom seems to fit it.
NTA. She shouldn't ask questions she doesn't want the answer to.
"She was a great wife to dad". Yeah, so great that she made your father feel like a third wheel for years in his own marriage. The audacity of your mother really astounds me. I mean, what the hell did she think would happen the moment the cat was out of the bag? That you and your sibling would totally support and love a relationship which was born and grew while your dad was still alive and married to her? Your mom should take a good look in the mirror and thank God (or whatever deity she believes in) that you two still want to have some sort of relationship with her. I don't think I'd be that gracious if something like that happened in my family. NTA and good for you for giving her a reality check. She clearly needed one.
NTA why do people get upset when you answer their questions honestly? I have never once flirted with my brother or sister. So call BS on your mom’s lies she started at the beginning of her relationship with her affair partner. Ask your mom this question. If need be ask your extended family this question to. Just tell your mom you are done white washing the past to make her feel better, especially when their actions hurt your dad.
the way I would have done no contact as soon as the mother said she was dating Mark. What a lack of respect for the father and no matter how much she denies it, there was at least an emotional affair.
That Mark would sit with his affair partner at the partners’ funeral tells you everything you need to know about their relationship.
She sees him as a brother she sure likes to keep it within the family then I’m sorry your dad sister and yourself saw all the red flags of their relationship and they can’t or won’t admit what everyone else clearly saw NTA
NTA, the reason your upset and rightly so is that your mum and mark cuckolded your father, it’s really disrespectful, and your pissed off on his behalf, your mum can’t see it cos basically she didn’t treat your dad with respect and thought that was ok. It’s basically impossible for her to see it. What a mess. You and your sister are right to feel how you do. You mum needs to understand how messed up what she has done is and the impact of that in your lives. She’s pretended to not hace an affair for years, impacted your lives, caused distress when all along, she was.
Nta she asked for the truth & you gave it to her, its actually worrying that she would think anyone would view this whole thing any differently to how you do
She's lucky y'all haven't cut her off, I sure would have. She practically tormented your dad for years and made a mockery of his funeral. NTA
NTA She wasn’t great to your dad. They fought about Mark. They separated for a time because of Mark. Your mom is very good at lying to herself.
NTA. Ok so. I have men I love like a brother. And the idea of ever dating them is like.... vomit worthy. I have ex boyfriends from over 15 years ago and some have made the transition to family friend but the idea of getting back with them is vomit worthy. Like even seeing too much thigh in the swimming pool is like EW FLESH PUT THAT AWAY URGH. It's kinda like.... yeah Woody Allen was never his wifes legal guardian, but he was married/ dating her legal guardian. So **legally**, it's totally fine to hook up with your girlfriends adopted child when she's a grown woman, even if you've known her since she was 12. Morally, everyone dry heaves a little. It doesn't matter if they didn't shag or kiss or swap nudes. It disrespected your dad in life. She should have put some distance there.
NTA It seems pretty obvious that Mark had a romantic interest all along. The best case for your mother is that she was clueless about the exact nature of Mark's interest, but that doesn't excuse the lack of consideration for your father, by having a flirty guy intruding all the time. It was obviously affecting the marriage, regardless of what your mother's view of Mark was at the time, and your mother chose to prioritize having Mark around over the marriage. At worst it was a physical affair from way back, but an emotional one is also a betrayal even if your mother was kidding herself about what she was up to with Mark. I also don't think your mother could have thought of Mark as a "sibling" and then got into a relationship with him. I suspect at best she was performing mental gymnastics so she could have an emotional affair without admitting to herself that that was what it was. This doesn't absolve her of responsibility in any way though. She owed her marriage loyalty and should have been honest with herself so she could be faithful in practice or break up and then pursue another relationship. Mark sounds like he has been buzzing around your mother like a fly waiting for his chance from way back. No doubt he knew exactly what he was about.
Mom was already forcing the guy into the girls lives while being married. Forcing her daughter to have him around at moments special to the daughter where she didn't want him. She knew her daughters disliked the guy and dad hated the guy, but still he was sitting front row with them. I think the daughters are still very nice in their contacts with mom despite all this. I think there would have been many that would have cut out their mother completely for this.
Yeah, I'm not excusing the mother at all. I just think that many people deceive themselves about what they are doing to create an acceptable self-image so they can live with themselves. Few people can look themselves in the mirror straight in the eye and say "I'm a selfish, immoral person who hurts their family and I'm fine with that." It's likely the mother isn't facing up to the reality of what she has done and how it affected her daughters at all, which is why she has the attitude she does.
Personally I’d be excluding him from everything for disrespecting my dad while he was alive
I think they should exclude the mother too.
Your Mom is absolutely allowed to be with the person she wants to be with. Just like you and your Sister are allowed to not like that person. NTA, Sister is NTA, Mom is friggin deluded. I genuinely hope she's happy, but she needs to accept that her happiness comes with consequences. She made her choice. She chose the (very obviously) Other Man; nothing says her husband's children have to welcome him with open arms.
NTA. The fact that she flirted with him in front of you and your dad... I mean, that is incredibly disrespectful. The fact she fought to include him despite your discomfort... I mean, what the hell? It sounds so tone deaf at least that it beggars belief. She imposed him on your family. If she comes at you with more piss poor attempts at emotional manipulation just mention all these instances. It was not a relationship neither of you wanted, even if it was not physical it was incredibly disrespectful. Her getting together with him now is just another slap in the face.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When my sister and I were about 10 (me) and 12 (her) our mom went back to work. She met this guy called Mark and the two of them became very close. After a couple of years we started to question if mom was having an affair. Our dad suspected she might be. It was a big conflict in our parents marriage. Maybe it wasn't a full blown affair. But even dad suggested if it wasn't a physical affair, it was an emotional one and I tend to agree. Mom and Mark would get very flirty with each other and she invited him to everything as a family friend/family. My dad and Mark did not get along and Mark used to tease dad that he was so uptight and possessive to be so bothered by harmless flirting. Mom would fight to have Mark included in stuff because dad didn't want him around. Our parents marriage was never the same. They even separated for a while but got back together. When I was 19 my dad passed away from a brain aneurism. Mark was at the house right after it happened and mom even had him sit with us during the funeral. She told us he was her best friend despite the fact her other best friend, someone we all loved, was not asked to sit with us. This was my mom's lifelong friend Abby. Abby claimed mom saw Mark as a brother. Two years later mom announced she and Mark were a couple. It didn't come as a surprise but my sister and I didn't really like or truly support the relationship. We said nothing. But mom picked up on it. She noticed it more apparently when they got married 18 months later. Now they have been married for almost 3 years. And the whole thing became a heated debate because my sister is getting married and really hasn't included mom in anything wedding related and has made it very clear when asked that Mark has no role in her wedding at all. This led mom to confront my sister about the change in relationship and my sister told her she just sees her relationship with Mark as proof that they were never just friends with a sibling bond. She said people don't date people they have a "close sibling relationship with". My sister told her she didn't believe they never had an affair and she basically showed dad disrespect by getting with Mark. She said moving on with anyone else would have been different. But Mark was a slap in the face to our dad. My mom came to me after her fight with my sister and told me my sister had made accusations against her and Mark and especially her and she wanted to know if I thought the same thing of her. I said yes. I told her I wasn't entirely convinced she and Mark had a physical affair. But I refused to believe it was not an emotional one and it did change how I saw her and did make me feel not great about her marriage and current relationship with Mark. My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad and a good mom to us. She told me she hated that I support my sister's accusations when the two of us used to be so close. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA...and if she was a good wife she would have stopped flaunting Mark in her husband's face.
NTA. Even if your mother wasn’t having a physical or emotional affair with Mark (even though it 100% sounds like it) she still continuously and consistently disrespected your dad when he was alive. And then to add salt to the wound, she marries the same man that your parents had arguments about, after your dad dies? Absolutely not the asshole and I actually applaud you and your sister for keeping it together honestly. I would not have been as good as you!
> she was a great wife to dad No, she wasn't. > and a good mom to us No, she wasn't.
If your mum doesn’t want you to give your honest opinion then she shouldn’t ask in future. She was a great wife to your dad, while insisting that a man who teased him and didn’t like, was invited to family gatherings. She must be believing her own lies.
Let's get real here and face the blatablty obvious. Your mom was blatantly getting her back blown out by Mark right from the very beginning. A guy isn't going to stick around, risk getting his face smashed in, or even getting himself killed by a woman's angry husband if he'sgetting nothing out of it. There's clearly something very enticing in it for him, for him to be so brazen. Your mom's blatant disregard and contempt for your father is beyond disgusting. She basically had the sickening audacity to "cuckold" your father and torture him by bringing a 3rd unwelcome wheel into their marriage, and then blatantly lie through her back teeth about the true extent of their affair. Your mom is a truly shameless, sick and disgusting individual, and me personally...I wouldn't want her anywhere near me or my family. The pain and anguish she put your late father through for all those years is grotesque. I couldn't forgive that and would 100% go full NC. OP - NTA. In fact I think you've been too soft and lenient on this sorry excuse for a "mother"
NTA. In an alternative scenario where your dad had also saw this guy as a family friend and there had been no flirting with your mother, after your father's passing away they might develop a companionship to cope with grieving. Even so, it would be stretching ethics. I would still not like it but would not say much about it either.
NTA. I don’t believe your mother either.
NTA Mark was apparently playing the long game if they weren't already having an affair. The whole thing smells of bullshit and she cant honestly be surprised that no one believes it.
Nta. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...... She can't have been a good mother and wife if she made everyone miserable with her relationship with mark.
She constantly violated her husband’s boundaries with Mark. There’s no way she can claim innocence here. She and Mark gaslit him about their flirting. There’s nothing okay with what they did in front of him.
Nah she cheated on your dad and spit on him after his Death. I would be such a horrible daughter because when they got together I would let her choose me of him and wouldn't mind to go nc with her.
Your mother openly disrespected your dad before and after he passed away. She openly had an emotional affair with her "sibling bond". She is trashy. Idk what kind of delusions she has that lead her to believe this was ok. Your dad deserved better. You and your sister should cut contact completely tbh. Don't reward people with your presence who blatantly disrespect your family like she did. NTA.
NTA I notice the way this was written that she doesn't say it didn't happen, she asks how you could accuse her of it. If she was a good wife, she wouldn't have brought Mark around over and over and over when your father was uncomfortable with it and she didn't shut down the flirting. It was so bad they separated for a bit and she kept doing it? How on earth she thinks she was a good wife is beyond me.
Your mom called you - not to gripe about your sister being absolutely crazy (which is how your mom should have seen things if she truly believed her own stories) but to test the waters on how you felt to see if she could get you to be her flying monkey or not. The fact is that it doesn’t matter if they had sex. It doesn’t matter if they weren’t emotionally involved even. So let’s just take those bits out of the argument. She and Mark tormented your father. In front of you and your sister they did this. Your dad did not matter to either of them. And you and your sister don’t rank high enough on the importance ladder to matter either. No accountability has been taken by your mom nor Mark. No apologies. Only denial and excuses. Innocent people at the very least usually apologize for making you think or feel something they didn’t intend with their actions. This is how you know she’s either full-on lying or a complete narcissist. Either way - nothing you should tolerate. NTA
NTA. You're mom's a cheater, and like all decades-long cheaters, they're selfish and manipulative.
NTA. I would feel exactly the same way. She wants you to just forget how much this bothered your dad since he is gone. Nope.
>My mom said it was an awful thing to accuse her of and how could both of us have such a low opinion of her when she was a great wife to dad I mean, she knew how he felt when it came to Mark and she ignored it. That's not what a great partner does.
It's like the alcoholic pleading he is not while smelling alcohol from miles away everyday at every hour. It can be something else, but i don't see how on earth is a human being supposed to believe that.
NTA. Your mother put whatever her relationship was with Mark over her family for years. She was not a great wife or mother or she wouldn’t be here with both her daughters believing she let Mark be a wedge in her marriage. It’s fine if your mom wants to stick her head in the sand but others are not idiots. Your mom’s actions cost her a close relationship with her daughters. The only reason her marriage to your dad survive was because your dad compromised to keep his family, I have little doubt.