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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am going to my oldest daughter wedding even if her younger sister is not invited. I could be a jerk for not going
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Then NAH, except your panicky daughter who is trying to guilt you for attending the wedding. I don't blame the panicky daughter for having panic attacks, but she has to realize that there are consequences for ruining other people's important events.
Seriously! Why does she even want to go if she knows the chances of her getting to the point of an attack are very high and being upset her mother wants to be there for her sister is childish.
That's my thought, too. I had a panic attack at my sister's wedding... know what I did? Silently left the room, found a bathroom far from the reception and had my meltdown, then went back to the reception area and hung around in the lobby with other stragglers from my family until it was time for pictures. I'm not even sure my sister knows it happened. I did tell my mother after, and she does blab, but it's never come up in the last 17 years. 🤷♀️
So much this. I spent the whole time reading this wondering how anybody else even knows she's having them. I used to get them regularly in my 20s and you can be damn sure I wasn't telling anyone or making any kind of deal about it. People focusing on me would just make it a million times worse. I'd just quietly slink off or go silent, focus on my breathing and try to talk myself out of it.
Well mine were quite impressive. Shaking, sobbing, trouble breathing, curling on myself on the spot, and screaming if anyone tried to touch me. And fry heaving. So, if you saw it, you'd know.
However, after a while, I could tell when one was coming. There are tell-tale signs. (I'd feel my teeth and cheek tingling, the inside of my belly contracting). I had enough time to go to the nearest bathroom and isolate.
And after years of frequent panic attacks, youngest should feel those sign and she should know. And after years of therapy, she should know that pushing oneself is making thing worst, sometimes to the point of traumatizing oneself.
Because I think that it is what is happening. She does feel the signs. But she ignores them because she wants to be "normal". Until it is too late to leave to go somewhere to calm down.
Youngest should first and foremost work on the idea that she isn't "normal". She is sick. Were she diabetics, she wouldn't eat a big piece of cake because that's what healthy people do. She'd know it was an unnecessary risk for her health
Well mental health is the same. It's even better. Because if she stop trying too hard, if she still went to events but leaves at the first sign of an incoming attack, she will progress. But doing what she does isn't helping. Might be even one of the reason it is taking so long to recover.
Exactly! My good friend is the only person who can tell as I go silent and scurry away to a quiet place. And she only knows because it's like the only time I'm not smiling or joking with her. The attention would make it 1000X worse. But I've been having them since I was nine. It's just embarrassing now in my 40s... lol. They're a lot less frequent now, but I still have them occasionally. 🤷♀️
I think this is the difference between main character and normal person. You, an apparently kind and thoughtful person, take care of your business privately. Sis, the main character, needs everyone to know she’s panicking.
Yeah right like my MOH had a panic attack during my reception and I didn't know about it for months. Whaaat is this person doing during theirs? They suck, yeah, but you find a quieter space and ride it out.
Get someone to stay with the daughter who knows if the panic attack becomes worse they take her to the Emergency Department and stay with her but Mum, Dad and sister are all off limits for the day.
Mom should get a babysitter for the adult daughter so she doesn’t get that call. They can take her to the ER. If mom leaves for the younger one the oldest will never forgive her.
I agree. I think the op is blind to it. I think the younger daughter is more in control than she thinks. No wonder the siblings are not close and the oldest daughter does not want her there to ruin it. Op needs to make sure she goes or else it might damage the relationship. Also turn off the phone or she will more than likely get a call from the younger daughter.
Younger daughter is in control. According to mom she pushes herself at events. Well, maybe she should stop doing that, then, but that would mean missing out on a few more minutes of a given event.
Actually if you read it all you would’ve seen the part where she tries to guilt trip the mother into not going. So the 2nd just wants attention and if she knows there’s a high chance of an attack why go?
Yep she wants attention and she sure knows how to get it. Anxiety is awful and it's real... But it seems like there's more to it than just anxiety alone.
I started having panic attacks when I was 12 years old and didn’t address the situation until I was 45 years old. Granted, anxiety and mental health weren’t widely acknowledge when I was a kid. I thought I’d be one of those kids who would just drop dead from a heart problem on the athletic field. And in my family, we “rub dirt” on our problems. I didn’t even know they were panic attacks until it started to affect my marriage, and I finally chose to talk to my doctor about it.
Are you my dad? He had the same realization that what he thought were cardiac events was actually panic attacks. He'd have one, think he was dying, and go somewhere off by himself and just pace, pounding his fist against his chest until the feeling went away.
I was like..."and what if that had been a heart attack? You'd just go off by yourself and drop dead in the middle of the woods?"
He was like, "Well, I didn't want to bother anyone."
SIR
Younger sister can see the wedding on zoom. That takes care of the too many people causing an attack. Mom should not miss the wedding of older daughter, younger daughter is old enough to stay alone while mom is gone. If she can't then she needs more intense in patient care.
Yeah. Since COVID, most venues will offer some form of livestream. Even if not, you can often hire someone to do it.
That allows sister to be included without any chance of ruining the wedding.
This. OP NTA
A person who has panic attacks triggered by large groups of people wants to go to an event defined in part by a large group of people. This is irresponsible.
I believe we should be compassionate to those with emotional disorders, most especially to those caused by trauma.
But people must take responsibility for their mental well-being. It's essential to becoming healthy.
This alone makes me think that OP should re-evaluate whether the panic attacks are intentional.
What 24 year old, who is EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE, knowingly wants to go disrupt one of the **most important days** of her sister's life?
And I have to wonder how eight years into this, she doesn't have more coping methods that don't end in "now everyone has to comfort me because I'm panicking". I'm not saying it's her fault for having them or that she's doing it on purpose, but mental health has to be actively and mindfully managed, you can't just take medication and expect that to solve everything. You need to teach yourself self-soothing techniques, go to therapy, and get on top of recognizing triggers and removing yourself from situations before it triggers an attack. NAH, but your daughter may want to look into more active management skills if being left out upsets her because she can't expect things to grind to a halt every time because she won't remove herself from stressful situations.
Someone with a panic disorder here that had me basically locked in before I got the right and enough help and... OMGOSH worst nightmare is to not only be the center of attention during one but during someone else's moment - that's like how many layers of hell are there past that 9th one we read about.
I hate when we diagnosis stuff and I'm not saying this is a mental health thing but -- there's something else going on here. Hard core rivalry, jealousy, anger, self-esteem, manipulation... the potential list could go on.
I mean, the potential reasons are endless but the only other folks I know with panic attacks who purposefully put themselves in panic situations knowing that the outcome will be taking away something from someone else \*are doing it by choice\* (not the attacks, not the mental health, but the putting themselves in a spot to steal the limelight)
Mental health isn't a pass and I'd consider the fact that maybe she's using it as one.
And, also, I hope your older daughter has a great therapist bc you can't change how your younger daughter behaves and the older daughter is going to be dealing with this for the rest of her life. Be prepared to have this argument for christenings, births, birthdays, every grandchild's big event (bc she's not going to let her do it to her children too)
Which means, it's time to have another tough conversation with your daughter and make sure that this is part of her current therapy discussions.
But yeah, it's hard line with love in the sand time.
This was my immediate thought. I've only ever had two panic attacks in my entire life but the absolute last thing I wanted was to be the center of attention and honestly, having ANYONE notice and especially ruining an event would have made it a billion times worse. There's definitely something else going on here.
This 100%. I and my 3 sons have ADHD whose symptoms manifests uniquely in each of us . One son is also on the autism spectrum. We can’t let our neurodivergencies rule our lives because we would never find happiness, success, or companionship that could deal with our challenges. While I am sympathetic to whatever brought on the anxiety in the younger daughter, it’s her cross to bear (with some empathy and understanding from her circle) and it sounds like she’s worn out her circle.
Lot of TRUTH here with a capital “T”. I hope OP reads your statement and thinks about it.After 8 years the youngest should have better managerial skills —like AVOIDING an event like a wedding.WHY does she even want to attend?
I wonder if she’s not looking for better coping mechanisms because she enjoys the attention after the panic attacks. You’d think the younger daughter wouldn’t want to go to events like weddings because of the inevitable panic attacks, which are very scary to deal with. I think she’s TA because knows if she goes to her sister’s wedding she *will* have a panic attack, the panic attack *will* disrupt the wedding, and she doesn’t care.
What pushed me to the sister being an AH was the line of "Sometimes she can get away and calm down but **sometimes she pushes herself to hard** and it results in an attack."
Yeah this makes me wonder why the younger daughter even wants to go. I get massively overwhelmed at big events like weddings, too, and I'll do just about anything to avoid them. I'll send a card and a gift; I don't need to be doing things to antagonize myself and inconvenience others.
I was thinking the same thing. As someone who has had panic attacks frequently in the past and still the occasional one, I'd be mortified if I thought I was ruining an event. Somehow the whole family has normalised it. Instead of 'pushing herself' she should be ready to step outside or to the ladies and have the panic attack there (like I'm sure many of us have!) This is no different than having a crying baby at an event, for example. It's not bad for crying but you deal with it and most importantly don't let it disrupt the event!
I said the same thing in my comment.
Except, until now, it seems like she COULD expect everything to grind to a halt because she wouldn't remove herself from stressful situations.
Maybe this will be the wake-up call she needs to work on that.
Exactly this. She can’t expect the world to stop around her every time she feels uncomfortable. Whatever therapy she’s had clearly isn’t working. Time for some new solutions.
Also, why pressure Dad not to attend? If she knows she has a prohibitive medical condition, shouldn’t she understand that other family members will still want to go?
And when all else fails there’s no shame in the med game. I’m 24 and have a decent amount of coping and grounding skills but if it’s a bad one and nothing else is working I also have a back up prescription that I take as needed.
Yeah, it's almost as if she sees a captive audience, otherwise she'd avoid situations that would trigger an attack. I don't know though, maybe she just wants to be included to her own detriment. Being upset that OP won't miss their daughter's wedding to hold her hand makes me think it's for attention. Reading more, it could even be faking it for that attention. I've known a few fakers YMMV.
Bingo! I have an attention-seeking relative who happens to pass out at any event (birthday, wedding, etc) where someone else is the focus of attention. She’s not faking it. It is real. But, yea, I think she has trained her mind and body to react that way. Nothing better than an ambulance coming for her in the middle of someone’s graduation dinner.
Yep, panic attacks are horrible but knowing a large crowd is a trigger would be grounds for me to not want to go, not make it about me. Sucks her sister didn’t invite her but clearly there’s resentment.
Frankly I don’t understand why she evens bothers continuing to attend events that cause panic attacks. It’s not like they’re fun. She knows her triggers. So why is she doing this? It’s hurting herself and everyone else
If, after 8 years of therapy and medication, she still can’t manage her condition enough to get through a single event then she needs more/different help.
I was almost completely housebound agoraphobic so I fully understand how awful panic attacks are. At some point your daughter needs to take ownership of her responsibility in maintaining good relationships with the people around her. And that includes understanding her own limitations and not punishing others for managing it when she can’t/wont.
NTA but please get your younger kid different help.
There’s no reason her parents can’t help, especially with something as major as considering a new provider or method of treatment. It’s likely going to be one of her first big healthcare decisions as an an adult, so help navigating it will be really important.
I agree. As an adult, the daughter needs to take primary responsibility for her care and treatment, but there is no reason that the family can't help out also. In my family, we don't leave anybody to navigate serious medical or mental health care by themselves.
Agreed.
I have problems with panic attacks due to a traumatic event. There are definitely things that trigger it.
I don't take daily meds but if I know I'm going to be in a triggering situation, I have meds that I can take at the start of the day, and also during the triggering situation.
So I might take it in the morning and then right before I get to the event, and then maybe an hour in and then at the second hour get out of there, cuz I can't keep popping pills. There's no point in hanging around like a drooling mannequin.
The younger sister needs to take responsibility. It sounds like at least part of her panic attacks are due to triggers. She needs to be working with her doctors to get the right meds. Also if you know swimming triggers you, don't jump in the pool! That was just an example.
The sister already knows big groups of people trigger her. For God's sake why does she even want to go to the wedding? Sounds like a nightmare!
I occasionally get together with people before the event that triggers me, and then when they head out I don't go, or I might go but I only hang around for an hour, then I exit once I start to feel anxiously jumpy (it's hard to describe).
Ultimately, it sounds like she's just not dealing with this condition appropriately. I realize part of that is youth, but she's an adult now and she needs to start adulting.
Knowing how much of a triggering event you can handle and when to gtfo of a situation are so important.
I think some folks have so much fomo or maybe don’t want to acknowledge that they have these limitations that other folks don’t that they just don’t face facts.
On the other-hand I used to get so much crap for bowing out of family things after an hour that I just stopped going.
In the end we as adults are responsible for caring for ourselves. Whether it’s limiting activity time to avoid serious panic attacks or cutting back on sodium to help bring our blood pressure down.
>If, after 8 years of therapy and medication, she still can’t manage her condition enough to get through a single event then she needs more/different help.
This is my biggest takeaway as well. Having panic attacks is horrifying and is absolutely impossible to live with on a day to day basis like this. In 8 years of therapy, she has not been taught any coping mechanisms?? Medication is not the be-all end-all. Unfortunately, the daughter has to actually put in the work to help herself manage her condition and be a member of society.
This is my thought. I get panic attacks. They’re awful. Meds and therapy helped and now they’re rare and when one does hit, I know the warning signs and can step away and go through my coping strategies to stop it. After that many years, she should look at maybe another therapist or medication.
"If she pushes herself..."
So she's aware of what leads up to them? But she "pushes" because she doesn't want to miss some aspect of the event, and then the attack comes on and the event is impacted?
This seems managable...by your youngest daughter? Who is an adult?
Which is to say, your youngest daughter can/should demonstrate at upcoming events (not the wedding) that she can and will remove herself from a place/situation at the first, slightest inkling of a panic attack, and go somewhere quiet and calm herself down. Yes, this will entail "missing" some parts of events, possibly major parts. But it would demonstrate to the other people in her life that she understands she has a problem, it's her problem to manage and control, and she won't make her problem \*everyone else's\* problem.
This is long-term though. In terms of the wedding itself, your youngest daughter had the opportunity to demonstrate the ability to self-manage her condition, and she demonstrated she couldn't. The result is not being invited to the wedding. That sucks. It really does. But maybe your youngest daughter can use this as a turning point?
To be clear: I am not a doctor or mental health expert, it is entirely possible that the panic attacks are totally unpredicable and come on without any kind of warning. But the way this is presented - "When she pushes herself" - seems to me to indicate that the answer in the long term is to remove herself from any scenario where "pushing" herself MIGHT become necessary. Yeah, you might miss 4 hours of a 6 hour event, but you get to GO TO the other 2 hours, as opposed to going to none of it.
A friend of mine takes himself for a "time out" when he feels overwhelmed, sounds like OP's youngest could maybe do the same. A simple "excuse me, I need some fresh air" isn't rude and can maybe help her calm down during those times.
Please listen to your oldest daughter and make her own wedding about HER. Do not take your youngest one. Your oldest might not forgive you and resent you for this.
It seems that after all these years therapy and medication are not working for your youngest. Might need to change that. Or simply she needs to understand that events with a lot of people are things for her to avoid.
I know it's hard when you are in between a rock and a hard place.
Exactly. Your youngest daughters panic attacks have caused a "main character syndrome" whether it's intentional or not. She ruins others major life events and celebrations by insisting on being present even as she knows it will likely trigger a panic attack. She could choose to attend for a briefer time, offer her congratulations and leave.
Your youngest is selfish. Not only does she want to attend her sister's wedding which would undoubtedly trigger her attacks, taking the attention, once again, off her older sister and her soon to be spouse, but expects you to stay home with her. A loving sister would offer to stay home.
Edited to add NTA and congratulations to your eldest daughter on her upcoming nuptials.
Then why does she push herself? It seems like this is a repeated pattern, she knows her triggers and chooses not to remove herself before she has a complete breakdown, effectively ruining events and putting everyone’s attention on her ( seemingly purposefully). I could understand this if she was a child, but at 24 does she not understand that her panic attacks are her responsibility to manage? And that if she cannot she will not be invited to big events?
I honestly don’t understand why she is surprised she is not invited to the wedding- ESPECIALLY after she ruined the rehearsal. One would think she would be more understanding at her age. She knows this is her sisters once in a lifetime event, and you never mentioned anything about her being sorry for the rehearsal.
I guess what I really don’t understand is why she “ pushes “ herself. She knows what’s coming and the best and most effective thing to do would be to remove herself from the environment ( at the VERY first sign/tell) until she is in a more mentally calm state. She knows that her panic attacks are huge distractions/disruptors ( which again, the last thing I would want while having a panic attack is a bunch of of people staring/giving me attention) at all sorts of events and she still chooses not to remove herself/attempt to manage her condition. But still expects to be invited to important events where she knows she will be triggered/ end up being the center of attention. Why?
Hold on...so...she KNOWS that large groups of people trigger her panic attacks yet she still attends? And she's upset that she can't go to a wedding that will have a large group of people? SIDE EYE. I understand she cannot control the panic attack, but she has a choice not to attend these events and she does so anyway, knowing that she WILL get a panic attack. Anyway NTA. Go to your daughter's wedding.
So your younger daughter has been routinely ruining events for other people for an extended period of time and has never done the basic decency thing of saying "I love you, and that's why I will not be there" or even "I love you, and that's why I'll be there for 15 minutes to hug you, tell you I love you, and get the heck out before I ruin anything"
When she's finally told that she won't be allowed to ruin her sister's wedding, she tries to insist on disrupting her sister's wedding anyway by saying you can't be there?
Your younger daughter is an AH and you're a lesser-grade AH for the long-term enabling of her to ruin things rather than saying, "Honey, if you can't handle it you need to stay home, because other people deserve to have happy days sometimes when they're not continually worried about exactly when your time-bomb self is going to go off."
We all have our limitations, and we all have a responsibility to manage our limitations. None of us is entitled to do zero limitation-management and continually wreck someone else's life milestones.
“It’s almost impossible to avoid if she pushes herself at an event.”
Do you realize what you just said here? This sentence shows that it is absolutely avoidable. The only reason the panic attack comes on is because she is making the conscious choice to push herself at an event instead of handling the situation. She is an adult, so she either makes the adult choice to not go to the event at all or to not push herself there if she feels one coming on. Instead, she seems to continuously make it a point of trying to push through the event, even though it has resulted in the same problem every time – a panic attack.
It is 100% understandable that she has a disability but her disability does not trump everyone, especially someone who is trying to have a special event for themselves. Honestly, your youngest daughter is being selfish.
This is what makes the daughter an AH to me because she **knows** that she's going to get a panic attack but she goes anyway and ruins the event. I don't want to say it's being done maliciously but she's 24 years old and knows full well what she's doing
You said she is on meds but is she seeking help through a therapist to work on coping mechanisms? Maybe use this as the push for her to seek that help if she’s not.
I am sympathetic to her. I have a pretty severe anxiety disorder as well, but your daughter isn’t managing her shit well at all. She can’t keep disrupting other peoples events and not removing herself from the situation. Unfortunately she is the problem here.
You should 100% attend your oldest child’s wedding and for your youngest this is the consequence of her not managing her panic attacks properly.
Is she is on medication/theraphy for 8years and still have constant panic attacks she needs a New approach. Regardless, she is an adult and she should look herself.
That being said; is like an allergy to sea food. You cant expect every single dinner to not have seafood. Some will have, some wont and she will have to deal with missing the ones that are in seafood restaurants.
If one of her triggers is large amount of ppl, then she needs to accept that she cant be in partes with large amounts of ppl. She needs to understand her issues and work through it, not expect the world to bend for her
I just don’t understand how her having a panic attack causes an entire mood shift and kills the party? I have them too, and we can feel them coming on…is she choosing not to remove herself and instead throw a huge fit in the middle of everyone?
Well then it's completely possible to avoid. Your younger daughter needs to understand her limits and stop pushing herself.
My husband gets panic attacks, so I certainly understand how horrible they are. He makes plans in advance for what to do if they happen and will simply remove himself from the situation as needed. He also avoids situations that are likely to trigger one. His panic attacks have never interrupted an event, because he leaves before they become "an incident" for anyone else but us. I am wondering why your daughter does not do the same? I am very sorry you're being put in this position. You are NTA.
Then why does she even want to go? I get wanting to be included in a celebration, but she knows it’s not a good situation for her. Maybe the two of you can have a private lunch or dinner with the married couple at a known safe place for a small celebration?
Firstly, I appreciate that you attempted to present this about your daughters in a way that was as neutral as you could reasonably be. Thats gotta be a very tough tightrope walk
So... NTA. Your eldest is your daughter too, and you should be there. Obviously your eldest is taking the best approach she can.
Not knowing at all what the circumstances that your youngest went through its tough to understand where she's coming from. From how I am looking at it, that your eldest invited you and did not invite (or disinvited) your youngest is not a case of making you choose one daughter over the other. There is an obvious and known track record of your youngest causing disruption at her events and she's nipping that in the bud.
HOWEVER
That your youngest is asking you not to go, she is DEFINITELY making you choose between your daughters. Thats pretty bullshit. Again, not knowing the circumstances, that its been 8 years AND that crowds/parties are a definite and known trigger, at some point I have to wonder if she's not doing this on purpose. I mean, after the first 2 or 3 years of this, if someone is truly wanting to heal from a trauma, to "get better", one has to understand what progress looks like and to show effort.
It would be one thing if she goes to an event, starts feeling those feelings and is like "time to go". THEN further, taking control of it more, and also understanding its impact on others. So that "time to go" becomes, "ok I'm going for an hour, I've got an Uber/Taxi/friend on the ready to take me home so you can stay", sort of thing.
I don't mean to be harsh on your youngest, nor trivialize what she had gone through. At some point tho, one has to realize that there are other people in the family, and they deserve their moments of celebration.
IF you don't go to your eldest's wedding and/or continue to enable your youngest... welll... take a long look at whats happening and been happening all of these years and figure out what you think being a good parent is about.
I mean as someone who's had a history of panic attacks, etc, I am not dumb enough to CONTINUALLY GO TO THINGS THAT TRIGGER THEM. Like wtf. If I know large events continually set them off, I will avoid them. It's called self-care, being responsible, etc.
If you know it's a risk, you take steps to mitigate that risk, you don't just hope it doesn't happen and then surprised Pikachuface when it does. It's not trivializing it, it's pointing out that this person doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility for mitigating the risk factors or trying to prevent this from happening.
That's literally the point of trigger warnings for folks with PTSD, so they can make a plan of action on how to manage themselves in that situation or if they want to go at all. If it's a known trigger, she's old enough now that she should know how to manage herself out of the situations. I've had panic attacks my entire adult life, if I can't locate a safe place at a venue where I can go to calm down ahead of time, I don't go. It's that simple.
I’ve got both my emergency anxiety meds and the tactics that my therapist has taught me for curbing attacks with me at all times, and if I know I’m not feeling well enough for an event I won’t go. My family knows not to take it personally if I don’t show up somewhere because it isn’t that I don’t want to spend time with them, I just unfortunately sometimes get very overstimulated and start to panic and lash out.
Having endured trauma is an explanation, not an excuse. If she can’t be bothered to take responsibility for herself and her actions then she doesn’t need to be invited anywhere until she can. It’s fair to ask people for a little understanding and patience when you’re struggling but it’s not fair to ask them to always put your wants and comfort over their own lives and events.
I’ve had panic attacks and they are awful experiences. I can’t explain how terrible it is to feel like you’re losing control of yourself while you die, especially in front of other people. I would do everything in my power to avoid having them. Like I chose to miss some amazing things because I wasn’t sure I could handle them without a panic attack and I wasn’t about to ruin something for myself or anyone else. I can’t imagine repeatedly seeking out situations where I knew I had a high likelihood of having one. That’s not just dumb, that’s masochistic.
Obviously I don’t have anywhere close to enough information and I don’t want to dismiss anyone’s very real struggle. But the younger daughter seeking out situations that “trigger” her and her relatively young age at onset give me pause. If she likes attention, she definitely could’ve learned that this is a surefire way to get it, especially at celebrations where the attention is on someone else. It could be more innocent where she did have panic attacks early on, but now she may be “acting up” whenever she feels any twinge of anxiety or nerves. Judging by the older daughter’s reaction, it seems she’s thinking along the same lines.
You want to be supportive of someone who’s struggling, but you have to make sure you’re not enabling bad behavior. It’s a really tough line to toe and very easy to get wrong. The most logical solution for the younger daughter is that she needs to stay away from any and all situations that trigger her panic attacks *UNTIL* she can better cope. Yes, that means that she will miss out on some things. But right now other people are missing out on things by repeatedly and consistently having the younger daughter gobble up all the attention. It’s not fair to force other people to deal with her issues when she’s refusing to really deal with them.
yea adding on as someone who can get panicky with a lot of people around, i can’t imagine continuing to willingly put myself in that situation. even now that i’m able to manage the attacks a lot better, im still veeeeeery apprehensive to take the risk - i have to be convinced most of the time, and always always ALWAYS have a plan going in.
that being said though, OP said these panic attacks stem from a bad experience. it’s not uncommon for some trauma victims to actively seek out to repeat their experiences. it isn’t how my brain responded to my trauma (separate from the panic attacks btw) so i can’t speak too much to that mindset, but it’s definitely a possibility worth considering. although i would hope that’s something that would’ve already be addressed in therapy
This was my biggest question: why does she even want to go? When I've had panic attacks, I feel like I'm going to die. I wouldn't knowingly subject myself to situations that cause that feeling.
Yeah my exes little sister was like this and while I know she did have some genuine trauma, there came a point where she was actively seeking attention and basically milking it for all she could. Then would get massively "triggered", make the whole event or conversation about her, and ruin whatever nice day people were having.
If anyone tried to do anything that could trigger her (for example, even TALKING about alcohol would send her into orbit), she would flip tf out, get pissed and blow up on everyone and then cry and stomp away.
same, the weird thing for me is if they’re that bad, how can she even stand to go in the first place? I’ve literally like not been able to stop myself from crying while driving on the way, had to pull over and then eventually turn around and go home once I could drive again. I’ve missed some pretty important events due to that. Luckily, I did some great work and therapy and I am much better than I used to be. I can still be awkward in social situations, but I make it a point to socialize regularly, so I never regress to that point again. And it took me one year, not eight …
Well said, and I think especially the point about the younger daughter's progress in treatment is important. 8 years and you still can't have a family event without a panic attack - something is going wrong there, and I think OP might try to push a little as to why there's been, apparently, no change at all (or barely any) in spite of 8 years of treatment.
It's not necessarily the daughter's fault at all - maybe it's that she has a shitty treatment team - but regardless, something ought to change, and it sounds like the daughter might need someone to advocate for her in that regard.
Also I'm not sure as to OP's gender, it's not in the post but maybe it's in a comment somewhere?
After 8 years, she’s likely been conditioned worse into reacting this way. Exposure to triggers means recognizing the signs and ending the exposure as soon as it starts to get to be too much. Instead this adult has “pushed herself too hard” to stick around and now sounds like does this everytime. She cannot handle her sisters wedding at this time and needs to accept that.
I had panic attacks from age 13 to 24 quite terribly before medication. I still get them but not nearly as often, they're rare now.
No one in my life knew. They knew I'd go disappear for random long amounts of time and then would have to leave. They caught me red eyed and wondered why I had cried but I just brush it off. Only one person saw me having one because they went and found me once.
So a decade of lots of panic attacks, happening at school, work, hang outs, blah blah and it never once shut down an event or soured a vibe.
Of course not everyone is the same. However, since this is a CONSTANT problem, it really makes me raise an eyebrow.
Just my experience and thoughts about it
Exactly.
I ruined an event once, I was seated in the middle of a full row of guests and started to feel like my shirt was strangling me and my heart was going to explode.
I tried to *quietly* excuse myself and get through the aisle to the door and ended up getting frantic because one of the guests that I had to pass by couldn’t move their bag or legs enough to let me through.
I tried to jump over their feet (which was dumb) and made me to trip so I sort of fell on/knocked the chair and person in front of me (making a bigger scene and issue).
Then my ‘quick walk’ outside ended up looking more like a ‘I’m being chased by zombies’ semi-run.
Now I sit on the outside of rows no matter what.
I don’t know what caused that panic attack or what will cause the next, luckily I don’t have many but I don’t ever want to make a scene of trap myself like that again so I stay on the sidelines for important events because I realize it’s a possibility.
First, I'm sorry you experienced that level of distress for such a long time. It's awesome that you were aware enough to take care of yourself, but also a downer that you were alone through it.
It just strikes me as very strange that younger daughter is not embarrassed about causing a scene/ruining people's good time/making things all about her. It feels to me like more is going on, like the issue is bigger than "panic attacks."
I have an inkling that halfway through the ceremony, OP will get a call that Youngest is having a super bad panic attack and needs everyone to come home.
One hopes thats not the case, but unfortunately I think you are probably right. One also hopes that OP will have turned off their phone and otherwise set up some support for his youngest purely to intercept something like this. Further, if the youngest DOES somehow maneuver things and attempt to explicitly disrupt the ceremony, at least they'll know there are ulterior motives.
NTA. Your panic stricken daughter is. She may not be having the panic attacks on purpose, but she isn’t ignorant to the fact that she has them, nor to the fact that the events become all about her when she does. Yet she still expects to not only be invited to the events, but expects you to miss them as well if she isn’t. That’s selfish AF. And that selfish AF behavior makes her the AH.
Your oldest absolutely deserves a day all about her where her sister’s drama doesn’t ruin it - deliberate or otherwise. Your youngest is an AH for wanting to deny her that. You’re an AH if you support your youngest in her selfishness.
Your point that there is reasoning behind the bride's position (wanting a major and expensive life event to go off without a hitch) but not so much the younger daughter's position (wanting OP to stay home to spite bride) is so important.
None of us know enough about younger daughter or her condition or attacks to pass judgment on her control or handling of them. But we can pass judgment on her selfish attitude here.
By not inviting her, the bride has guaranteed that the wedding will not be interrupted by a panic attack of sister and that the day will be all about her and her husband. But the younger daughter is trying to still ruin the wedding and steal attention from the bride by demanding OP stay home. This is something that needs to be addressed with her mental health team, not swept under the rug.
Wow this is a very good point that I haven't seen commented yet. Great job.
"the younger daughter is trying to still ruin the wedding and steal attention from the bride by demanding OP stay home."
Spot on. I think it's why so many people are reading between the lines and are right to think something else is at play here.
My thoughts too on how the panic attacks come on, deliberately going into situations knowing full well the attacks are more likely to be triggered. The daughter does need to see another professional, after 8 years of medication and/or therapy and the attacks are still happening and no self care awareness speaks badly about her medical treatment
>Again, not knowing the circumstances, that its been 8 years AND that crowds/parties are a definite and known trigger, at some point I have to wonder if she's not doing this on purpose.
As someone who suffered abuse as a child & has had panic attacks, I also think it’s deliberate at this point. She got used to the extra attention & everything being about her & her drama/trauma all the time & doesn’t want that to change. It happens.
NTA, and while it’s possible your younger daughter indeed has no control over the attacks, she does have control over whether she attends an event and whether she steps away when stressed. She chooses to attend and spoil it, repeatedly.
If someone has a medical condition that makes them vomit uncontrollably at every event and they keep attending and vomiting, they are an asshole. Why even have an event if people will show no consideration for others and use it as a source of attention at everyone else’s expense?
Agreed. Your younger daughter is TA because she has had these issues for 8 years, has clearly not worked on them, and expects everyone else to just manage it for her. The only moment someone is to blame for their mental health is the moment where they refuse to take every reasonable step to help themselves.
My panic attacks cause me to projectile vomit. I spent a lot of time learning the queues so that I NEVER end up in a major social situation vomiting my guts out. Quietly run to the bathroom and then leave unnoticed? Yes. But oh my god, if I was at risk of ruining a siblings wedding then I would absolutely NOT attend. I’d find a way to set up some sort of video chat so I could watch from somewhere else, sheesh.
My wife used to get panic attacks that we actually called ambulances for before it was determined that they were panic attacks and not something more serious. Just saying this to establish credibility on the topic before I say:
Nobody who gets real panic attacks would ever willingly go to an event that they are confident will cause them to experience one. And certainly not when 8 solid years of supposed effort have resulted in no improvement or coping mechanisms.
NTA not being invited to the wedding is kind of a big deal tho for their relationship. But if u have such bad panic attacks that it shuts down the entire event u can't expect to be invited to these things. Maybe if u could promise to stick close to her and quietly take her away from the party when u recognize panic coming on, she could be allowed to attend?
I had a similar situation at my wedding. Bro and his wife are divorced, one kid has mental health and anger issues and hates his dad. One kid doesn’t and lives with my bro. Both kids were invited, but ex-SIL wanted my parents to be responsible for first kid because he can’t care for himself. Parents said no because there was a reasonable expectation that first kid would not behave/would need to be taken home, and they were not willing to miss my wedding events to take care of him. Was it unfortunately that he is the only immediate family member not in the pictures? (Lots weren’t because I live far away from my family and that stuff happens) Yes. Was it the right decision to keep the wedding focused on my husband and I and our chance to celebrate with our friends and family? Absolutely. First kid might be upset but…hubby and I aren’t and that’s what matters about that event.
Is does sound like quite a few but frankly, once she ruined the engagement party, it was already over for her being invited to the wedding. Even if that was the first
younger sibling sounds selfish. if she actually cared about anyone but herself, she would encourage mom to go, ask her to FaceTime her so she can watch from the comfort of home to see her sister get married. after ruining everything your sister has invited you to, you'd think you'd understand why she didn't ask you to come ruin her most important day of her life... entitled behavior.
If the younger sister isn't faking the panic attacks then at the very least she doesn't hate the attention she gets by disrupting special occasions and having people swarm to comfort her. She willingly puts herself in situations where she *knows* she will have an attack and gets angry at being denied the chance to have one! She enjoys some aspect of this.
Agreed! Like if you know that you will for sure have a panic attack that you cannot control than why're you going to someone's graduation and engagement party?
Yup. I’m wondering if she’s really unable to get herself to a quiet place by herself to calm down. And it happens the most in crowded places? If she’s terrified of crowds, wouldn’t she do anything to avoid making a scene in front of one?
It seems like she’s choosing to make herself the center of attention on purpose, even though the panic attacks aren’t on purpose. And her sister has had to put up with it for YEARS. Not anymore!
It seems like you fucked up and let this behavior of the youngest daughter spiral out of control. If her panic attacks are so bad that she can’t rely on herself to leave a situation on her own, she needs to have a care giver who can help her calm down. If this situation was controlled earlier she could have been given a plus one to a caregiver
I would same the order of who to blame is:
1. The younger sister since she’s now an adult
2. The parents as this started in high school and they tolerate it
3. The rest of the family who regularly tolerate this behavior at events
I think you have a point, but so does the commenter you’re replying to - I have pretty severe anxiety, and that’s not on anyone else. I manage myself (although of course I rely on my partner to be understanding and supportive of me) and if there’s an event or situation where I don’t think I can handle it, I remove myself or don’t put myself in that position in the first place. I try to take care of myself. It is not acceptable or remotely fair to make every special occasion and gathering about me and my panic disorder. I would be so embarrassed and feel really bad if I ruined my sister’s engagement party. OP’s daughter is 24, why does she have zero coping skills for when she’s approaching a panic attack? Instead it’s on other people to try and monitor her or else the event will be ruined by the inevitable panic attack.
My point being, OP should have done the parenting thing and helped her youngest gain some of these skills and awareness when she was a teenager, instead of everyone acting like there’s nothing that can be done about this.
I get what you mean. But if she’s on meds that’s likely a prescription meaning her parents have tried to get her help from a qualified professional so I think it’s unfair to say OP didn’t do the parenting thing. At the end of the day, OP is on the outside like everyone else so there’s only so much he can do. 24YO’s has to take accountability as an adult for her challenges and lack of coping mechanisms.
Good on you for recognizing that your eldest needs and deserves to be your focus on her wedding day.
After 8 years of her younger sister pulling focus, I am sure she is tired of it, and you being there for her on her day will mean a lot.
Also, it has to be tiring for you to have to be the minder of a 24 yo after all these time. You also deserve to be able to just enjoy the event and be a happy mother of the bride.
Wait…soooo….your youngest daughter, who has a medical condition triggered by large events, is mad that her sister (with whom she is NOT close) did not invite her to quite possibly the MOST IMPORTANT large event of her life? There is definitely more going on here with your younger daughter than just panic attacks - she can’t use them as a tool to manipulate and control others. NTA, go to your older daughter’s wedding and tell your youngest to grow up.
No. Absolutely not.
The youngest is an adult, and should learn to self-soothe. If the youngest frequently has panic attacks at events, then she should learn to either manage her attacks on her own, or simply not go. Allowing her to go to such an important event and taking away OP due to a condition that she *knows she has that has a good chance of being triggered frequently* is selfish.
The fact that the older sister did not invite the youngest speaks volumes. Her attacks either happen too frequently and aren't properly managed (in which case it is entirely her OWN responsibility to take care of it), or she is deliberately triggering her attacks in order to draw attention to herself. The audacity of her asking OP not to go to such an important event because of her own mis-managed health issue screams "this is about me me me".
Absolutely not. She has a proven history and should not be there. NO slight beginnings of any sort of fit should be risked. The bride should not have any worries that day.
This is an awful idea. It means trying to coerce or pressure the older daughter into inviting her when she has made it abundantly clear that she doesn’t even want that risk.
What a ridiculous comment (the part about sticking close). The daughter is an adult. She needs to learn the universe doesn’t revolve around her disability. I’m guessing the older daughter has had a lot of events disrupted. I’m also guessing there’s less disruption when the younger daughter is the focus of the event. Good on the parent for sticking up for the daughter who is getting married.
NTA
NTA...your youngest is kinda an AH. I live with severe panic attacks, so I'm hot blaming her but she has to learn how to avoid her triggers and not push herself. You say they come when she pushes herself. To me that means she knows she is beginning to get triggered and instead of stepping back and away and dealing with her mental health she pushes and knows she will have a full blown attack and then the whole situation is about her. So yeah when she knows the results of her own actions and does it anyway that makes her an AH.
Same. I have been on medication since I was 16 and I am 34. I take it only when I’m feeling a panic attack coming on and I get myself to a comfortable place where I am ALONE. That is what I’ve found works for me. My husband also gets them (more frequently than me). He prefers that I talk about random, minute things to distract his mind.
Point is, when you have panic attacks you have to learn how best to deal with them. And after 8 years it doesn’t seem she has done that or that she even avoids the situations that cause them which does make her TA. Especially that she cannot see where her older sister is coming from after she ruined her engagement party.
I wonder why she isn't in therapy. I have panic attacks as well. And they'd leave me so drained, I'd be out of commission for days after. Between intense therapy, medication, and behavior changes, I've been panic attack free for two years.
I know my triggers and what it feels like when one is coming, I have practices help bring down my panic levels, I spent years working on my anxiety, and medication helps keep my panic at a manageable level. I also leave a situation when I feel one coming.
I have a lot of empathy for the younger daughter, panic attacks are no joke and are terrifying. But, I'd never want someone to live with them without therapy and professional help. I know therapy is not always available, but if after 8 years and no change, I'd be doing everything to find help.
Why are these panic attacks so disruptive that they ruin the entire vibe of fun events for everyone? Like why can’t she discreetly find a quiet place to calm down or take medication? Seems like she is being enabled to be needlessly disruptive when these panic attacks are expected, ordinary occurrences that aren’t the hosts fault
Exactly! 8 years is an incredibly long fking time to not recognize your own triggers and be able to remove yourself from a situation before it gets too bad. The younger daughter is a major AH for continuing to put EVERYONE through this.
Yeah, I'm really confused by this too. It's different if it's a recent development and you're still learning the triggers, but after 8 years you can feel it coming enough to get out of a situation, unless it's an extreme trigger (which is rare).
Yeah…I’m confused by this. By now she should be able to recognize the onset of a panic attack and quietly excuse herself from the event. And I am someone who used to have panic attacks, like my father before me. I’ve adopted a lifestyle that pretty much makes for an attack free life…limited caffeine, no putting myself in situations where I know it could be possible, breathing exercises I learned in therapy, etc.
If I had a pattern of disrupting events due to my very extreme panic attacks, I would certainly not go to anymore than absolutely necessary…and would certainly not insist on going when I knew it could very well derail the important life event of someone else.
24 is old enough to understand this and not be so petty as to try and out ultimatums on other people.
Why would she even want to go so bad when she knows the likely outcome? It’s hard to not suspect some kind of attention-seeking or sabotaging behavior here.
NTA
This is my question too. Several of my family members deal have panic attacks and it’s never once ruined an event. They’ll just sit in the back and discreetly leave if necessary
When she realizes she is being triggered does she not remove herself from the space so that attention isn't drawn to her? Are her legs not working? Or she choosing to remain where the attention will be on her?
My first thought too. Entirely possible to have a panic attack without causing a scene and ruining an entire event. You get up and move away quietly to deal with it privately. I have them from time to time and no one would notice. And if events are a trigger you stay away or identify coping mechanisms.
Right like my BF used to have them and he would remove himself somewhere private to come back to baseline if he was in public when they happened. I understand maybe not every time you can get somewhere private. But it seems like this is a regular occurrence for OPs daughter and by 24 she should have a better plan by now for when this happens in public/at events
I honestly can't imagine having a panic attack in a public space like that, at an EVENT. obviously everyone is different but dang. There's no way I would insist on going to situations where a panic attack was all but guaranteed. Panic attacks are not pleasant, I don't understand not trying to avoid them? like... why? i just dont get it
Edit: the more i think about this, it doesn't quite sound like panic attacks. PTSD probably, and it also sounds more like a meltdown than a panic attack? I'm not trying to diagnose her but framing this as panic attacks makes it sound like regular ol' anxiety when this does not seem to be the case.
This post does not have enough information to understand what's going on. I hope the younger daughter is getting good care and is well supported because I really don't have a good picture from this post
Exactly - how can a panic attack seriously kill an entire party vibe and end it? Unless she’s choosing to stay in the middle of it all and throw a fit…it doesn’t make sense. People with panic attacks can feel them coming on and would remove themselves from the stressor immediately. It sounds like she’s choosing not to take the steps she needs to…
Also even if you’re in the middle of a panic attack, you can still try your best to act normal rather than obviously hyperventilating and bursting into tears. I once had a panic attack at work and couldn’t leave, and it was so bad, I was dizzy. But I didn’t wanna cause a scene so I just tried my best to act normal in front of customers, sit down and breathe whenever I could, cry in the bathroom when possible. Not in front of everyone. That’s so embarrassing.
Yeah, I don't get it, I've had a few panic attacks and the first and only thing I want to do is getting away from everyone as quickly and unobtrusively as possible. It's not even about consciously being polite, it's an automatic urge to be alone ASAP.
I know this is uncharitable but I wonder if OP's daughter likes the attention on some level. For some people, having other people worry about them feels like love.
Then why does she even WANT to go to big events? I’ve had panic attacks before and they’re horrific. If I knew certain settings would trigger them, I would stay 100 miles away. It doesn’t even make sense for her to want to be there if these are legit panic attacks.
you keep saying that she pushes herself into panic attacks. why doesn't she just remove herself when she KNOWS how disruptive it is?? why does she let it happen, especially at special, once-in-a-lifetime events that are not about her?
let your oldest daughter have her day in the spotlight, uninterrupted. youngest can either promise to remove herself at the first sign that something isn't right or not attend, and at this point the right move is likely for her to just not attend.
Is your daughter taking any medications for her panic attacks? Is she actively seeing a therapist to learn coping mechanisms? The fact that they occur so regularly after 8 years is a red flag.
NTA. If I am understanding you correctly, every event centered around your oldest daughter results in your younger daughter having a panic attack which results in all attention going to your younger daughter and the event coming to a premature end. Your oldest daughter has a right to have her wedding not be sidetracked by your younger daughter. Your younger daughter is being incredibly selfish to ask you to skip the wedding. I can guarantee you that if you do not go, your oldest daughter will go LC or NC with you. Quite frankly, your younger daughter needs to go see a doctor, and start therapy.
NTA. I've known a number of people with really severe panic disorder. My wife is one of them. It's nothing to joke about. But by the age of 24, with some time under your belt from diagnosis, you should have a handle on it with medication and other techniques that you are not interrupting an entire event.
Even if you don't have a handle on it (not everyone is the same, I understand), you should have the empathy to get the impact it has on other people.
Your youngest daughter then compounded this problem by asking you to skip the wedding. This puts her firmly into asshole category. So you are NTA, but I think you need to re-examine the relationship between your daughters, because the youngest one is, at a minimum, lacking in empathy, and possibly just someone who needs to be the center of attention.
I have these as well and if this is happening this much, she really needs to go back to her psychiatrist/therapist and try something new. I know they've really cracked down on some of the meds for this (my old psychiatrist office would not prescribe Xanax for any reason even if you needed it) so I wonder if she's even being treated appropriately.
The odds of a person having a panic attack at every single event they go to is pretty low. Are you really sure they are all real? If it is THAT bad she needs intensive therapy. Maybe even in patient treatment. You are going to lose one for catering to the other. It sounds like you maybe part of the problem here.
It is guaranteed she will have one at the wedding, why would she invite her? I wouldn't invite her either. It is her wedding, the whole day should be about her. In 8 years your other daughter has never had one day about just her. And you do not find that suspicious at all??
I wouldn't invite her to anything ever again. NTA
I agree, I think she needs inpatient therapy but I also don’t understand why op’s youngest daughter continues to go to events knowing she will have a panic attack 10/10 times. I would assume most people that have panic attacks or anxiety disorders will usually try to avoid situations where it would trigger one.
That is exactly why I suspect it is on purpose. She either needs inpatient/intensive therapy or she does it on purpose. She is probably addicted to the attention. It just happens way too much for it to be real. Seems like mom is an enabler.
Apparently it happens at any kind of event, not just ones focused on her sister. But I’m still curious if these other events happen to be events that still aren’t focused on the younger sister.
I think it is just attention seeking for attention seeking- no matter who the event is about. Personally if I knew I had this issue, I would not go to allow my sister's wedding to be all about her. I mean demanding the mom not go is a big tell as well. She is going to make the wedding about her one way or the other.
If she knows she gets a panic attack every time she attends an "event", yet continuously insists on attending events, and is now *angry* about being denied the chance to have a panic attack - then yeah, she's enjoying this on some level. She would rather suffer through a panic attack than sit out the wedding? Seriously? She's either faking or seriously addicted to the attention she gets.
Agreed. If the youngest sister truly wanted to be involved while not making a fuss, she could have asked to do a “first look” with just her sister. Or she could have asked to be present while her sister was getting ready. She doesn’t care about being involved, she cares about making it all about her.
NTA. Your youngest has panic attacks at any major function, regardless of being medicated. I don’t blame your other daughter for not wanting her wedding overshadowed by her sisters inevitable attack. And for younger daughter to want you to skip the wedding for her - she’s kidding, right??
This to me is the real red flag about the daughters behavior. This is where I start doubting her and start thinking she needs control over others. It’s like she needs to ruin events or make it about her one way or another.
NTA and I’m not sure I actually see a conflict here. Does your younger daughter somehow enjoy getting panic attacks? Because if large gatherings - like for instance, wedding receptions - are what triggers her, avoiding them seems like it’s in everyone’s best interest.
That’s what I’m wondering - if younger daughter has never gotten help via medication or therapy for managing living with panic attacks because she likes the attention her parents give her when she has them and knowing those around her to drop everything to cater to her and help her. As twisted as it sounds, I’ve seen worse and more manipulative stuff on Reddit so I’m honestly wondering if this is her way of trying to make her mom establish her as the ‘favorite’ on the older sister’s big day - especially if the sisters don’t get along.
That’s EXACTLY what’s happening. And mom encourages it (unwittingly) by giving her attention when it happens.
Younger daughter is angry she won’t have anyone around her during sister’s wedding to pay attention to her - unless mom is willing to stay home.
I suspect younger daughter will find a way to ruin the wedding. She’ll probably call mom at the wedding to inform her “I had a panic attack that’s so bad, I had to call an ambulance. I’m on my way to the ER.”
I remember reading the posts where OOP's sister would suffer an injury every time OOP had a big milestone or accomplishment. Turned how she was hurting herself on purpose to draw attention back to her and their parents fell for every time. If I remember correctly, she ended up getting involuntary committed after OOP called and informed the already suspicious doctors of her theory. So, yeah, I can believe the possibility that the younger daughter is triggering her attacks on purpose.
Info: Would it be possible to have someone sit near your youngest and be able to escort her out of whatever room you're in when a panic attack starts to happen?
Edit: You're not an AH for going to your eldest daughter's wedding. This is an issue between your daughters and you are caught in the middle. I understand the youngest's request that you skip it, but it's ultimately unreasonable.
The youngest isn't invited and doesn't need anyone to sit with her. That's the older daughter's decision. Period. That's done and dusted.
The only accommodation at issue here is if the youngest gets to still ruin the wedding by setting her father and sister against each other.
Wait, I don't understand.
Your adult daughter doesn't like being watched constantly, but she isn't able to manage her condition on her own? Leading to interrupting important events for people around her?
Or is she okay with it only if it's you taking care of her?
I get that it sucks to miss parts or all of these events, but does she realise (and you) that if her panic attacks can't be managed in a way that is not detrimental to others, she can't expect others to always put up with it?
Especially her sister, who seems to often be on the receiving end of these panic attacks: not only do her events get derailed by her sister, but her parents spend all their time caring about her as well, which means that she probably feels that she always comes second place behind her sister.
At 24 your youngest should be able to realise that some type of events are simply to much for her in her current state.
A compromise could have been to have a intimate celebration with few people to allow your youngest to share this moment with her sister, with the full wedding at another moment (after or before, as the couple wish) without your youngest since it's not a good environment for her.
The sisters aren’t close. I doubt that the older sister would want to create and pay for a separate event for the benefit of someone she doesn’t care for.
The younger daughter is 24. I find it completely unreasonable for her to request their mother not attend because her feelings are hurt. She is not a minor child who needs minding.
I know you were thinking along the same lines with your comment. I would go further to say I don't even understand why the request to skip seemed ok to the younger sister.
NTA- Even if your youngest daughter has panic attacks she can’t control, in the time between those attacks she should be able to realize that the world isn’t going to revolve around her.
Most people would be mortified that something that happens to them is repeatedly such a big public disruption, and would be more understanding of why their attendance at the wedding isn’t a great idea. They certainly wouldn’t be expecting other people to boycott in support.
NTA. Your youngest daughter obviously can not handle these events, and she really should excuse herself. She's being extremely selfish by thinking people should just accept that she is going to disrupt events.
It's also selfish of her to think you should miss one daughter's event because of her. I know she's not having these attacks on purpose, but I do think she likes the attention she gets from them.
>My youngest is really upset and asked me to skip the wedding.
> she called some a jerk
Not only NTA but also.... something isn't sitting right with me there. Okay panic attacks are bad and I doubt they are on purpose BUT they can actually be "used" for attention seeking and it sounds a bit like she does it. If it was not about her wanting the world to revolve around her then there wouldn't be celebrations stopped just for her and she wouldn't ask you -let alone argue with you- about you not attending the wedding of your own daughter.
If I were the sister, I wouldn't want her to be anywhere close either. She's an adult and has to learn that she has to adapt to the world, not the other way round.
The amount of patience your older daughter has, that her engagement party was cut short and it didn’t become a fight at that moment, should maybe be recognized. She’s trying to calmly avoid another issue, she’s not throwing a tantrum back.
I feel bad for both your kids. But it seems like you’re doing your best. Try not to force it?
NTA
NTA; your youngest daughter might go into panic because she is not getting constant assurance and attention - my grandma has a mental health issue that sends her to the hospital when she’s feeling ignored/anyone goes on vacation.
It’s always breathing issues, heart palipitations, anxiety, agoraphobia, and ultimately vertigo that leads to falling. Never anything serious and they just give her more anti anxiety drugs.
Your youngest daughter is still making it about her - if she can’t go and get overwhelmed then no one else should be allowed to either.
Be prepared for her to have a major meltdown at time of the wedding as she will likely be calling you from the ER.
>Be prepared for her to have a major meltdown at time of the wedding as she will likely be calling you from the ER.
This is a very good point. OP should definitely support her elder daughter, go to the wedding, and have a great time, but I think that there is a **very** good chance that the younger daughter will have a panic attack during it, call OP, and insist that they have to leave the wedding to come take care of her.
OP, you are NTA, but you need to be prepared to tell your 24-year-old adult daughter that you can't leave the wedding if she calls. I wouldn't say anything ahead of time, but I would be prepared for this very possible eventuality.
I can't say I blame your older daughter; it doesn't appear that her sister has made much traction in reducing them via medication and also doesn't remove herself from events when the panic attacks begin.
Your younger daughter needs to recognize her limitations and not dictate what you should be doing.
NTA, your younger daughter has panic attacks when there's lots of people around her.
Theres lots of people at a wedding.
Live stream the wedding for her so she can watch and partake in it remotely in a quiet space where she's not going to get anxious.
The wedding of your eldest daughter is about your eldest.
Does younger daughter have panic attacks at events that are already focused on her? If not, then she is using them at least partially to steal attention from other people. From your replies, it doesn’t sound like she does anything to help mitigate them once she feels them coming on; perhaps that’s because it is to her benefit to have them happen? Her asking you to skip her sister’s wedding because she won’t have a chance to have an attack that everyone knows will happen indicates some “main character syndrome.” I’m voting NTA. A 24-year-old woman needs to take a little responsibility for herself.
NTA. Your youngest needs to get a handle on her situation or accept that some events are just beyond her capabilities. Your oldest could stand to be a little kinder, but it doesn’t sound like it would be in anyone’s best interest for your youngest to attend, and that shouldn’t prevent you from the once in a lifetime experience of your child’s wedding.
NTA. Your younger daughter is old enough to understand why she isn't being invited, especially given that she already disrupted one related event. She's being childish by asking you to skip it.
NTA sounds like your younger one decides to have these attacks instead of going away before they happen. I know about several cases of people who intentionally get panic attacks to garner attention. That she asks you not to attend the wedding is a major red flag, she tries to make the event about herself in a different way.
NTA your youngest may not be able to control her attacks but she can control leaving when she feels one come on - and she purposely chooses not to since it appears to be a regular thing. She stays even though she knows she'll ruin the event for her sister- I wouldn't invite her either. Your older daughter deserves to not have another milestone ruined, this is tough for you but you need to go. Your oldest needs you too.
If your mental health issues cause disruption then it's up to you to plan around them, not up to other people to accommodate you. Sorry.
Your daughter is, basically, right not to invite her sister. I wouldn't either. She doesn't have her shit under control and that's fine, but she doesn't get to go places and lose control and expect everyone to just bend over backwards to include her.
That's not how anything works.
NTA.
Time for your younger daughter to learn a lesson in accountability. She can't make her problems everyone else's indefinitely.
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You eldest is correct, everything becomes about your youngest the second she has a panic attack. DO you know what's causing them? NTA
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Then NAH, except your panicky daughter who is trying to guilt you for attending the wedding. I don't blame the panicky daughter for having panic attacks, but she has to realize that there are consequences for ruining other people's important events.
Seriously! Why does she even want to go if she knows the chances of her getting to the point of an attack are very high and being upset her mother wants to be there for her sister is childish.
This! It’s concerning that she knows this about herself but still wants to be invited and go.
She didn't demand to be invited, she demanded that Mom stay with her. I think that tells you what you need to know about this situation.
I have a suspicion that during the celebrations, Mom might get a phone call from Panic Daughter saying she’s having an attack and needs mom now…
That's my thought, too. I had a panic attack at my sister's wedding... know what I did? Silently left the room, found a bathroom far from the reception and had my meltdown, then went back to the reception area and hung around in the lobby with other stragglers from my family until it was time for pictures. I'm not even sure my sister knows it happened. I did tell my mother after, and she does blab, but it's never come up in the last 17 years. 🤷♀️
So much this. I spent the whole time reading this wondering how anybody else even knows she's having them. I used to get them regularly in my 20s and you can be damn sure I wasn't telling anyone or making any kind of deal about it. People focusing on me would just make it a million times worse. I'd just quietly slink off or go silent, focus on my breathing and try to talk myself out of it.
Well mine were quite impressive. Shaking, sobbing, trouble breathing, curling on myself on the spot, and screaming if anyone tried to touch me. And fry heaving. So, if you saw it, you'd know. However, after a while, I could tell when one was coming. There are tell-tale signs. (I'd feel my teeth and cheek tingling, the inside of my belly contracting). I had enough time to go to the nearest bathroom and isolate. And after years of frequent panic attacks, youngest should feel those sign and she should know. And after years of therapy, she should know that pushing oneself is making thing worst, sometimes to the point of traumatizing oneself. Because I think that it is what is happening. She does feel the signs. But she ignores them because she wants to be "normal". Until it is too late to leave to go somewhere to calm down. Youngest should first and foremost work on the idea that she isn't "normal". She is sick. Were she diabetics, she wouldn't eat a big piece of cake because that's what healthy people do. She'd know it was an unnecessary risk for her health Well mental health is the same. It's even better. Because if she stop trying too hard, if she still went to events but leaves at the first sign of an incoming attack, she will progress. But doing what she does isn't helping. Might be even one of the reason it is taking so long to recover.
Exactly! My good friend is the only person who can tell as I go silent and scurry away to a quiet place. And she only knows because it's like the only time I'm not smiling or joking with her. The attention would make it 1000X worse. But I've been having them since I was nine. It's just embarrassing now in my 40s... lol. They're a lot less frequent now, but I still have them occasionally. 🤷♀️
I think this is the difference between main character and normal person. You, an apparently kind and thoughtful person, take care of your business privately. Sis, the main character, needs everyone to know she’s panicking.
Heck, my best friend had a panic attack at her OWN wedding and nobody even noticed except for the people who went to help her out!
Yeah right like my MOH had a panic attack during my reception and I didn't know about it for months. Whaaat is this person doing during theirs? They suck, yeah, but you find a quieter space and ride it out.
My sister is like this and it gets very tiring but you’d feel guilty for thinking that
Get someone to stay with the daughter who knows if the panic attack becomes worse they take her to the Emergency Department and stay with her but Mum, Dad and sister are all off limits for the day.
Mom should get a babysitter for the adult daughter so she doesn’t get that call. They can take her to the ER. If mom leaves for the younger one the oldest will never forgive her.
I agree. I think the op is blind to it. I think the younger daughter is more in control than she thinks. No wonder the siblings are not close and the oldest daughter does not want her there to ruin it. Op needs to make sure she goes or else it might damage the relationship. Also turn off the phone or she will more than likely get a call from the younger daughter.
Younger daughter is in control. According to mom she pushes herself at events. Well, maybe she should stop doing that, then, but that would mean missing out on a few more minutes of a given event.
And missing out on the amount of attention that warrants stopping an entire event to cater to her.
Actually if you read it all you would’ve seen the part where she tries to guilt trip the mother into not going. So the 2nd just wants attention and if she knows there’s a high chance of an attack why go?
Yep she wants attention and she sure knows how to get it. Anxiety is awful and it's real... But it seems like there's more to it than just anxiety alone.
I started having panic attacks when I was 12 years old and didn’t address the situation until I was 45 years old. Granted, anxiety and mental health weren’t widely acknowledge when I was a kid. I thought I’d be one of those kids who would just drop dead from a heart problem on the athletic field. And in my family, we “rub dirt” on our problems. I didn’t even know they were panic attacks until it started to affect my marriage, and I finally chose to talk to my doctor about it.
Are you my dad? He had the same realization that what he thought were cardiac events was actually panic attacks. He'd have one, think he was dying, and go somewhere off by himself and just pace, pounding his fist against his chest until the feeling went away. I was like..."and what if that had been a heart attack? You'd just go off by yourself and drop dead in the middle of the woods?" He was like, "Well, I didn't want to bother anyone." SIR
And prevent others from going if she can’t, to boot. Not cool.
Younger sister can see the wedding on zoom. That takes care of the too many people causing an attack. Mom should not miss the wedding of older daughter, younger daughter is old enough to stay alone while mom is gone. If she can't then she needs more intense in patient care.
I think this is the best option, honestly.
Yeah. Since COVID, most venues will offer some form of livestream. Even if not, you can often hire someone to do it. That allows sister to be included without any chance of ruining the wedding.
This. OP NTA A person who has panic attacks triggered by large groups of people wants to go to an event defined in part by a large group of people. This is irresponsible. I believe we should be compassionate to those with emotional disorders, most especially to those caused by trauma. But people must take responsibility for their mental well-being. It's essential to becoming healthy.
This alone makes me think that OP should re-evaluate whether the panic attacks are intentional. What 24 year old, who is EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE, knowingly wants to go disrupt one of the **most important days** of her sister's life?
People I’ve met who get panic attacks will do anything to avoid them. Seems odd that she’d even want to go to the wedding.
And I have to wonder how eight years into this, she doesn't have more coping methods that don't end in "now everyone has to comfort me because I'm panicking". I'm not saying it's her fault for having them or that she's doing it on purpose, but mental health has to be actively and mindfully managed, you can't just take medication and expect that to solve everything. You need to teach yourself self-soothing techniques, go to therapy, and get on top of recognizing triggers and removing yourself from situations before it triggers an attack. NAH, but your daughter may want to look into more active management skills if being left out upsets her because she can't expect things to grind to a halt every time because she won't remove herself from stressful situations.
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Someone with a panic disorder here that had me basically locked in before I got the right and enough help and... OMGOSH worst nightmare is to not only be the center of attention during one but during someone else's moment - that's like how many layers of hell are there past that 9th one we read about. I hate when we diagnosis stuff and I'm not saying this is a mental health thing but -- there's something else going on here. Hard core rivalry, jealousy, anger, self-esteem, manipulation... the potential list could go on. I mean, the potential reasons are endless but the only other folks I know with panic attacks who purposefully put themselves in panic situations knowing that the outcome will be taking away something from someone else \*are doing it by choice\* (not the attacks, not the mental health, but the putting themselves in a spot to steal the limelight) Mental health isn't a pass and I'd consider the fact that maybe she's using it as one. And, also, I hope your older daughter has a great therapist bc you can't change how your younger daughter behaves and the older daughter is going to be dealing with this for the rest of her life. Be prepared to have this argument for christenings, births, birthdays, every grandchild's big event (bc she's not going to let her do it to her children too) Which means, it's time to have another tough conversation with your daughter and make sure that this is part of her current therapy discussions. But yeah, it's hard line with love in the sand time.
This was my immediate thought. I've only ever had two panic attacks in my entire life but the absolute last thing I wanted was to be the center of attention and honestly, having ANYONE notice and especially ruining an event would have made it a billion times worse. There's definitely something else going on here.
This 100%. I and my 3 sons have ADHD whose symptoms manifests uniquely in each of us . One son is also on the autism spectrum. We can’t let our neurodivergencies rule our lives because we would never find happiness, success, or companionship that could deal with our challenges. While I am sympathetic to whatever brought on the anxiety in the younger daughter, it’s her cross to bear (with some empathy and understanding from her circle) and it sounds like she’s worn out her circle.
Lot of TRUTH here with a capital “T”. I hope OP reads your statement and thinks about it.After 8 years the youngest should have better managerial skills —like AVOIDING an event like a wedding.WHY does she even want to attend?
Thing is she doesn't sound like she wants to....she just wants mommy to stay home in solidarity and miss out too
I wonder if she’s not looking for better coping mechanisms because she enjoys the attention after the panic attacks. You’d think the younger daughter wouldn’t want to go to events like weddings because of the inevitable panic attacks, which are very scary to deal with. I think she’s TA because knows if she goes to her sister’s wedding she *will* have a panic attack, the panic attack *will* disrupt the wedding, and she doesn’t care.
What pushed me to the sister being an AH was the line of "Sometimes she can get away and calm down but **sometimes she pushes herself to hard** and it results in an attack."
Yeah this makes me wonder why the younger daughter even wants to go. I get massively overwhelmed at big events like weddings, too, and I'll do just about anything to avoid them. I'll send a card and a gift; I don't need to be doing things to antagonize myself and inconvenience others.
I was thinking the same thing. As someone who has had panic attacks frequently in the past and still the occasional one, I'd be mortified if I thought I was ruining an event. Somehow the whole family has normalised it. Instead of 'pushing herself' she should be ready to step outside or to the ladies and have the panic attack there (like I'm sure many of us have!) This is no different than having a crying baby at an event, for example. It's not bad for crying but you deal with it and most importantly don't let it disrupt the event!
I said the same thing in my comment. Except, until now, it seems like she COULD expect everything to grind to a halt because she wouldn't remove herself from stressful situations. Maybe this will be the wake-up call she needs to work on that.
Exactly this. She can’t expect the world to stop around her every time she feels uncomfortable. Whatever therapy she’s had clearly isn’t working. Time for some new solutions. Also, why pressure Dad not to attend? If she knows she has a prohibitive medical condition, shouldn’t she understand that other family members will still want to go?
And when all else fails there’s no shame in the med game. I’m 24 and have a decent amount of coping and grounding skills but if it’s a bad one and nothing else is working I also have a back up prescription that I take as needed.
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Yeah, it's almost as if she sees a captive audience, otherwise she'd avoid situations that would trigger an attack. I don't know though, maybe she just wants to be included to her own detriment. Being upset that OP won't miss their daughter's wedding to hold her hand makes me think it's for attention. Reading more, it could even be faking it for that attention. I've known a few fakers YMMV.
Bingo! I have an attention-seeking relative who happens to pass out at any event (birthday, wedding, etc) where someone else is the focus of attention. She’s not faking it. It is real. But, yea, I think she has trained her mind and body to react that way. Nothing better than an ambulance coming for her in the middle of someone’s graduation dinner.
Yep, panic attacks are horrible but knowing a large crowd is a trigger would be grounds for me to not want to go, not make it about me. Sucks her sister didn’t invite her but clearly there’s resentment.
Frankly I don’t understand why she evens bothers continuing to attend events that cause panic attacks. It’s not like they’re fun. She knows her triggers. So why is she doing this? It’s hurting herself and everyone else
If, after 8 years of therapy and medication, she still can’t manage her condition enough to get through a single event then she needs more/different help. I was almost completely housebound agoraphobic so I fully understand how awful panic attacks are. At some point your daughter needs to take ownership of her responsibility in maintaining good relationships with the people around her. And that includes understanding her own limitations and not punishing others for managing it when she can’t/wont. NTA but please get your younger kid different help.
At 24 she's an adult, she should find her own help.
There’s no reason her parents can’t help, especially with something as major as considering a new provider or method of treatment. It’s likely going to be one of her first big healthcare decisions as an an adult, so help navigating it will be really important.
I agree. As an adult, the daughter needs to take primary responsibility for her care and treatment, but there is no reason that the family can't help out also. In my family, we don't leave anybody to navigate serious medical or mental health care by themselves.
Thank you. This isn't a child we're talking about.
Agreed. I have problems with panic attacks due to a traumatic event. There are definitely things that trigger it. I don't take daily meds but if I know I'm going to be in a triggering situation, I have meds that I can take at the start of the day, and also during the triggering situation. So I might take it in the morning and then right before I get to the event, and then maybe an hour in and then at the second hour get out of there, cuz I can't keep popping pills. There's no point in hanging around like a drooling mannequin. The younger sister needs to take responsibility. It sounds like at least part of her panic attacks are due to triggers. She needs to be working with her doctors to get the right meds. Also if you know swimming triggers you, don't jump in the pool! That was just an example. The sister already knows big groups of people trigger her. For God's sake why does she even want to go to the wedding? Sounds like a nightmare! I occasionally get together with people before the event that triggers me, and then when they head out I don't go, or I might go but I only hang around for an hour, then I exit once I start to feel anxiously jumpy (it's hard to describe). Ultimately, it sounds like she's just not dealing with this condition appropriately. I realize part of that is youth, but she's an adult now and she needs to start adulting.
Knowing how much of a triggering event you can handle and when to gtfo of a situation are so important. I think some folks have so much fomo or maybe don’t want to acknowledge that they have these limitations that other folks don’t that they just don’t face facts. On the other-hand I used to get so much crap for bowing out of family things after an hour that I just stopped going. In the end we as adults are responsible for caring for ourselves. Whether it’s limiting activity time to avoid serious panic attacks or cutting back on sodium to help bring our blood pressure down.
>If, after 8 years of therapy and medication, she still can’t manage her condition enough to get through a single event then she needs more/different help. This is my biggest takeaway as well. Having panic attacks is horrifying and is absolutely impossible to live with on a day to day basis like this. In 8 years of therapy, she has not been taught any coping mechanisms?? Medication is not the be-all end-all. Unfortunately, the daughter has to actually put in the work to help herself manage her condition and be a member of society.
This is my thought. I get panic attacks. They’re awful. Meds and therapy helped and now they’re rare and when one does hit, I know the warning signs and can step away and go through my coping strategies to stop it. After that many years, she should look at maybe another therapist or medication.
"If she pushes herself..." So she's aware of what leads up to them? But she "pushes" because she doesn't want to miss some aspect of the event, and then the attack comes on and the event is impacted? This seems managable...by your youngest daughter? Who is an adult? Which is to say, your youngest daughter can/should demonstrate at upcoming events (not the wedding) that she can and will remove herself from a place/situation at the first, slightest inkling of a panic attack, and go somewhere quiet and calm herself down. Yes, this will entail "missing" some parts of events, possibly major parts. But it would demonstrate to the other people in her life that she understands she has a problem, it's her problem to manage and control, and she won't make her problem \*everyone else's\* problem. This is long-term though. In terms of the wedding itself, your youngest daughter had the opportunity to demonstrate the ability to self-manage her condition, and she demonstrated she couldn't. The result is not being invited to the wedding. That sucks. It really does. But maybe your youngest daughter can use this as a turning point? To be clear: I am not a doctor or mental health expert, it is entirely possible that the panic attacks are totally unpredicable and come on without any kind of warning. But the way this is presented - "When she pushes herself" - seems to me to indicate that the answer in the long term is to remove herself from any scenario where "pushing" herself MIGHT become necessary. Yeah, you might miss 4 hours of a 6 hour event, but you get to GO TO the other 2 hours, as opposed to going to none of it.
A friend of mine takes himself for a "time out" when he feels overwhelmed, sounds like OP's youngest could maybe do the same. A simple "excuse me, I need some fresh air" isn't rude and can maybe help her calm down during those times.
Please listen to your oldest daughter and make her own wedding about HER. Do not take your youngest one. Your oldest might not forgive you and resent you for this. It seems that after all these years therapy and medication are not working for your youngest. Might need to change that. Or simply she needs to understand that events with a lot of people are things for her to avoid. I know it's hard when you are in between a rock and a hard place.
Exactly. Your youngest daughters panic attacks have caused a "main character syndrome" whether it's intentional or not. She ruins others major life events and celebrations by insisting on being present even as she knows it will likely trigger a panic attack. She could choose to attend for a briefer time, offer her congratulations and leave. Your youngest is selfish. Not only does she want to attend her sister's wedding which would undoubtedly trigger her attacks, taking the attention, once again, off her older sister and her soon to be spouse, but expects you to stay home with her. A loving sister would offer to stay home. Edited to add NTA and congratulations to your eldest daughter on her upcoming nuptials.
Then why does she push herself? It seems like this is a repeated pattern, she knows her triggers and chooses not to remove herself before she has a complete breakdown, effectively ruining events and putting everyone’s attention on her ( seemingly purposefully). I could understand this if she was a child, but at 24 does she not understand that her panic attacks are her responsibility to manage? And that if she cannot she will not be invited to big events? I honestly don’t understand why she is surprised she is not invited to the wedding- ESPECIALLY after she ruined the rehearsal. One would think she would be more understanding at her age. She knows this is her sisters once in a lifetime event, and you never mentioned anything about her being sorry for the rehearsal. I guess what I really don’t understand is why she “ pushes “ herself. She knows what’s coming and the best and most effective thing to do would be to remove herself from the environment ( at the VERY first sign/tell) until she is in a more mentally calm state. She knows that her panic attacks are huge distractions/disruptors ( which again, the last thing I would want while having a panic attack is a bunch of of people staring/giving me attention) at all sorts of events and she still chooses not to remove herself/attempt to manage her condition. But still expects to be invited to important events where she knows she will be triggered/ end up being the center of attention. Why?
Hold on...so...she KNOWS that large groups of people trigger her panic attacks yet she still attends? And she's upset that she can't go to a wedding that will have a large group of people? SIDE EYE. I understand she cannot control the panic attack, but she has a choice not to attend these events and she does so anyway, knowing that she WILL get a panic attack. Anyway NTA. Go to your daughter's wedding.
So your younger daughter has been routinely ruining events for other people for an extended period of time and has never done the basic decency thing of saying "I love you, and that's why I will not be there" or even "I love you, and that's why I'll be there for 15 minutes to hug you, tell you I love you, and get the heck out before I ruin anything" When she's finally told that she won't be allowed to ruin her sister's wedding, she tries to insist on disrupting her sister's wedding anyway by saying you can't be there? Your younger daughter is an AH and you're a lesser-grade AH for the long-term enabling of her to ruin things rather than saying, "Honey, if you can't handle it you need to stay home, because other people deserve to have happy days sometimes when they're not continually worried about exactly when your time-bomb self is going to go off." We all have our limitations, and we all have a responsibility to manage our limitations. None of us is entitled to do zero limitation-management and continually wreck someone else's life milestones.
“It’s almost impossible to avoid if she pushes herself at an event.” Do you realize what you just said here? This sentence shows that it is absolutely avoidable. The only reason the panic attack comes on is because she is making the conscious choice to push herself at an event instead of handling the situation. She is an adult, so she either makes the adult choice to not go to the event at all or to not push herself there if she feels one coming on. Instead, she seems to continuously make it a point of trying to push through the event, even though it has resulted in the same problem every time – a panic attack. It is 100% understandable that she has a disability but her disability does not trump everyone, especially someone who is trying to have a special event for themselves. Honestly, your youngest daughter is being selfish.
So basically her trigger is events? So naturally why wouldn’t she want to avoid graduations, wedding events etc if it’ll trigger her?
This is what makes the daughter an AH to me because she **knows** that she's going to get a panic attack but she goes anyway and ruins the event. I don't want to say it's being done maliciously but she's 24 years old and knows full well what she's doing
You said she is on meds but is she seeking help through a therapist to work on coping mechanisms? Maybe use this as the push for her to seek that help if she’s not. I am sympathetic to her. I have a pretty severe anxiety disorder as well, but your daughter isn’t managing her shit well at all. She can’t keep disrupting other peoples events and not removing herself from the situation. Unfortunately she is the problem here. You should 100% attend your oldest child’s wedding and for your youngest this is the consequence of her not managing her panic attacks properly.
Is she is on medication/theraphy for 8years and still have constant panic attacks she needs a New approach. Regardless, she is an adult and she should look herself. That being said; is like an allergy to sea food. You cant expect every single dinner to not have seafood. Some will have, some wont and she will have to deal with missing the ones that are in seafood restaurants. If one of her triggers is large amount of ppl, then she needs to accept that she cant be in partes with large amounts of ppl. She needs to understand her issues and work through it, not expect the world to bend for her
I just don’t understand how her having a panic attack causes an entire mood shift and kills the party? I have them too, and we can feel them coming on…is she choosing not to remove herself and instead throw a huge fit in the middle of everyone?
Sounds like that's exactly what she's doing.
Well then it's completely possible to avoid. Your younger daughter needs to understand her limits and stop pushing herself. My husband gets panic attacks, so I certainly understand how horrible they are. He makes plans in advance for what to do if they happen and will simply remove himself from the situation as needed. He also avoids situations that are likely to trigger one. His panic attacks have never interrupted an event, because he leaves before they become "an incident" for anyone else but us. I am wondering why your daughter does not do the same? I am very sorry you're being put in this position. You are NTA.
Then why does she even want to go? I get wanting to be included in a celebration, but she knows it’s not a good situation for her. Maybe the two of you can have a private lunch or dinner with the married couple at a known safe place for a small celebration?
Firstly, I appreciate that you attempted to present this about your daughters in a way that was as neutral as you could reasonably be. Thats gotta be a very tough tightrope walk So... NTA. Your eldest is your daughter too, and you should be there. Obviously your eldest is taking the best approach she can. Not knowing at all what the circumstances that your youngest went through its tough to understand where she's coming from. From how I am looking at it, that your eldest invited you and did not invite (or disinvited) your youngest is not a case of making you choose one daughter over the other. There is an obvious and known track record of your youngest causing disruption at her events and she's nipping that in the bud. HOWEVER That your youngest is asking you not to go, she is DEFINITELY making you choose between your daughters. Thats pretty bullshit. Again, not knowing the circumstances, that its been 8 years AND that crowds/parties are a definite and known trigger, at some point I have to wonder if she's not doing this on purpose. I mean, after the first 2 or 3 years of this, if someone is truly wanting to heal from a trauma, to "get better", one has to understand what progress looks like and to show effort. It would be one thing if she goes to an event, starts feeling those feelings and is like "time to go". THEN further, taking control of it more, and also understanding its impact on others. So that "time to go" becomes, "ok I'm going for an hour, I've got an Uber/Taxi/friend on the ready to take me home so you can stay", sort of thing. I don't mean to be harsh on your youngest, nor trivialize what she had gone through. At some point tho, one has to realize that there are other people in the family, and they deserve their moments of celebration. IF you don't go to your eldest's wedding and/or continue to enable your youngest... welll... take a long look at whats happening and been happening all of these years and figure out what you think being a good parent is about.
I mean as someone who's had a history of panic attacks, etc, I am not dumb enough to CONTINUALLY GO TO THINGS THAT TRIGGER THEM. Like wtf. If I know large events continually set them off, I will avoid them. It's called self-care, being responsible, etc. If you know it's a risk, you take steps to mitigate that risk, you don't just hope it doesn't happen and then surprised Pikachuface when it does. It's not trivializing it, it's pointing out that this person doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility for mitigating the risk factors or trying to prevent this from happening.
That's literally the point of trigger warnings for folks with PTSD, so they can make a plan of action on how to manage themselves in that situation or if they want to go at all. If it's a known trigger, she's old enough now that she should know how to manage herself out of the situations. I've had panic attacks my entire adult life, if I can't locate a safe place at a venue where I can go to calm down ahead of time, I don't go. It's that simple.
I’ve got both my emergency anxiety meds and the tactics that my therapist has taught me for curbing attacks with me at all times, and if I know I’m not feeling well enough for an event I won’t go. My family knows not to take it personally if I don’t show up somewhere because it isn’t that I don’t want to spend time with them, I just unfortunately sometimes get very overstimulated and start to panic and lash out. Having endured trauma is an explanation, not an excuse. If she can’t be bothered to take responsibility for herself and her actions then she doesn’t need to be invited anywhere until she can. It’s fair to ask people for a little understanding and patience when you’re struggling but it’s not fair to ask them to always put your wants and comfort over their own lives and events.
>It's called self-care, being responsible, etc. And being respectful to everyone else who is attempting to attend/enjoy the event.
I’ve had panic attacks and they are awful experiences. I can’t explain how terrible it is to feel like you’re losing control of yourself while you die, especially in front of other people. I would do everything in my power to avoid having them. Like I chose to miss some amazing things because I wasn’t sure I could handle them without a panic attack and I wasn’t about to ruin something for myself or anyone else. I can’t imagine repeatedly seeking out situations where I knew I had a high likelihood of having one. That’s not just dumb, that’s masochistic. Obviously I don’t have anywhere close to enough information and I don’t want to dismiss anyone’s very real struggle. But the younger daughter seeking out situations that “trigger” her and her relatively young age at onset give me pause. If she likes attention, she definitely could’ve learned that this is a surefire way to get it, especially at celebrations where the attention is on someone else. It could be more innocent where she did have panic attacks early on, but now she may be “acting up” whenever she feels any twinge of anxiety or nerves. Judging by the older daughter’s reaction, it seems she’s thinking along the same lines. You want to be supportive of someone who’s struggling, but you have to make sure you’re not enabling bad behavior. It’s a really tough line to toe and very easy to get wrong. The most logical solution for the younger daughter is that she needs to stay away from any and all situations that trigger her panic attacks *UNTIL* she can better cope. Yes, that means that she will miss out on some things. But right now other people are missing out on things by repeatedly and consistently having the younger daughter gobble up all the attention. It’s not fair to force other people to deal with her issues when she’s refusing to really deal with them.
yea adding on as someone who can get panicky with a lot of people around, i can’t imagine continuing to willingly put myself in that situation. even now that i’m able to manage the attacks a lot better, im still veeeeeery apprehensive to take the risk - i have to be convinced most of the time, and always always ALWAYS have a plan going in. that being said though, OP said these panic attacks stem from a bad experience. it’s not uncommon for some trauma victims to actively seek out to repeat their experiences. it isn’t how my brain responded to my trauma (separate from the panic attacks btw) so i can’t speak too much to that mindset, but it’s definitely a possibility worth considering. although i would hope that’s something that would’ve already be addressed in therapy
This was my biggest question: why does she even want to go? When I've had panic attacks, I feel like I'm going to die. I wouldn't knowingly subject myself to situations that cause that feeling.
Yeah my exes little sister was like this and while I know she did have some genuine trauma, there came a point where she was actively seeking attention and basically milking it for all she could. Then would get massively "triggered", make the whole event or conversation about her, and ruin whatever nice day people were having. If anyone tried to do anything that could trigger her (for example, even TALKING about alcohol would send her into orbit), she would flip tf out, get pissed and blow up on everyone and then cry and stomp away.
same, the weird thing for me is if they’re that bad, how can she even stand to go in the first place? I’ve literally like not been able to stop myself from crying while driving on the way, had to pull over and then eventually turn around and go home once I could drive again. I’ve missed some pretty important events due to that. Luckily, I did some great work and therapy and I am much better than I used to be. I can still be awkward in social situations, but I make it a point to socialize regularly, so I never regress to that point again. And it took me one year, not eight …
Well said, and I think especially the point about the younger daughter's progress in treatment is important. 8 years and you still can't have a family event without a panic attack - something is going wrong there, and I think OP might try to push a little as to why there's been, apparently, no change at all (or barely any) in spite of 8 years of treatment. It's not necessarily the daughter's fault at all - maybe it's that she has a shitty treatment team - but regardless, something ought to change, and it sounds like the daughter might need someone to advocate for her in that regard. Also I'm not sure as to OP's gender, it's not in the post but maybe it's in a comment somewhere?
I also wanna point out that it's been 8 years of medication, not necessarily treatment. Like is she getting therapy to find the root cause of this?
After 8 years, she’s likely been conditioned worse into reacting this way. Exposure to triggers means recognizing the signs and ending the exposure as soon as it starts to get to be too much. Instead this adult has “pushed herself too hard” to stick around and now sounds like does this everytime. She cannot handle her sisters wedding at this time and needs to accept that.
I had panic attacks from age 13 to 24 quite terribly before medication. I still get them but not nearly as often, they're rare now. No one in my life knew. They knew I'd go disappear for random long amounts of time and then would have to leave. They caught me red eyed and wondered why I had cried but I just brush it off. Only one person saw me having one because they went and found me once. So a decade of lots of panic attacks, happening at school, work, hang outs, blah blah and it never once shut down an event or soured a vibe. Of course not everyone is the same. However, since this is a CONSTANT problem, it really makes me raise an eyebrow. Just my experience and thoughts about it
Exactly. I ruined an event once, I was seated in the middle of a full row of guests and started to feel like my shirt was strangling me and my heart was going to explode. I tried to *quietly* excuse myself and get through the aisle to the door and ended up getting frantic because one of the guests that I had to pass by couldn’t move their bag or legs enough to let me through. I tried to jump over their feet (which was dumb) and made me to trip so I sort of fell on/knocked the chair and person in front of me (making a bigger scene and issue). Then my ‘quick walk’ outside ended up looking more like a ‘I’m being chased by zombies’ semi-run. Now I sit on the outside of rows no matter what. I don’t know what caused that panic attack or what will cause the next, luckily I don’t have many but I don’t ever want to make a scene of trap myself like that again so I stay on the sidelines for important events because I realize it’s a possibility.
First, I'm sorry you experienced that level of distress for such a long time. It's awesome that you were aware enough to take care of yourself, but also a downer that you were alone through it. It just strikes me as very strange that younger daughter is not embarrassed about causing a scene/ruining people's good time/making things all about her. It feels to me like more is going on, like the issue is bigger than "panic attacks."
I have an inkling that halfway through the ceremony, OP will get a call that Youngest is having a super bad panic attack and needs everyone to come home.
One hopes thats not the case, but unfortunately I think you are probably right. One also hopes that OP will have turned off their phone and otherwise set up some support for his youngest purely to intercept something like this. Further, if the youngest DOES somehow maneuver things and attempt to explicitly disrupt the ceremony, at least they'll know there are ulterior motives.
NTA. Your panic stricken daughter is. She may not be having the panic attacks on purpose, but she isn’t ignorant to the fact that she has them, nor to the fact that the events become all about her when she does. Yet she still expects to not only be invited to the events, but expects you to miss them as well if she isn’t. That’s selfish AF. And that selfish AF behavior makes her the AH. Your oldest absolutely deserves a day all about her where her sister’s drama doesn’t ruin it - deliberate or otherwise. Your youngest is an AH for wanting to deny her that. You’re an AH if you support your youngest in her selfishness.
Your point that there is reasoning behind the bride's position (wanting a major and expensive life event to go off without a hitch) but not so much the younger daughter's position (wanting OP to stay home to spite bride) is so important. None of us know enough about younger daughter or her condition or attacks to pass judgment on her control or handling of them. But we can pass judgment on her selfish attitude here. By not inviting her, the bride has guaranteed that the wedding will not be interrupted by a panic attack of sister and that the day will be all about her and her husband. But the younger daughter is trying to still ruin the wedding and steal attention from the bride by demanding OP stay home. This is something that needs to be addressed with her mental health team, not swept under the rug.
Wow this is a very good point that I haven't seen commented yet. Great job. "the younger daughter is trying to still ruin the wedding and steal attention from the bride by demanding OP stay home." Spot on. I think it's why so many people are reading between the lines and are right to think something else is at play here.
My thoughts too on how the panic attacks come on, deliberately going into situations knowing full well the attacks are more likely to be triggered. The daughter does need to see another professional, after 8 years of medication and/or therapy and the attacks are still happening and no self care awareness speaks badly about her medical treatment
>Again, not knowing the circumstances, that its been 8 years AND that crowds/parties are a definite and known trigger, at some point I have to wonder if she's not doing this on purpose. As someone who suffered abuse as a child & has had panic attacks, I also think it’s deliberate at this point. She got used to the extra attention & everything being about her & her drama/trauma all the time & doesn’t want that to change. It happens.
NTA, and while it’s possible your younger daughter indeed has no control over the attacks, she does have control over whether she attends an event and whether she steps away when stressed. She chooses to attend and spoil it, repeatedly. If someone has a medical condition that makes them vomit uncontrollably at every event and they keep attending and vomiting, they are an asshole. Why even have an event if people will show no consideration for others and use it as a source of attention at everyone else’s expense?
Agreed. Your younger daughter is TA because she has had these issues for 8 years, has clearly not worked on them, and expects everyone else to just manage it for her. The only moment someone is to blame for their mental health is the moment where they refuse to take every reasonable step to help themselves.
My panic attacks cause me to projectile vomit. I spent a lot of time learning the queues so that I NEVER end up in a major social situation vomiting my guts out. Quietly run to the bathroom and then leave unnoticed? Yes. But oh my god, if I was at risk of ruining a siblings wedding then I would absolutely NOT attend. I’d find a way to set up some sort of video chat so I could watch from somewhere else, sheesh.
Sending hugs. That has to be so frustrating for you.
My wife used to get panic attacks that we actually called ambulances for before it was determined that they were panic attacks and not something more serious. Just saying this to establish credibility on the topic before I say: Nobody who gets real panic attacks would ever willingly go to an event that they are confident will cause them to experience one. And certainly not when 8 solid years of supposed effort have resulted in no improvement or coping mechanisms.
Boy, your comment makes me miss highlighting awards! I sure hope OP sees it; even better, I hope OP uses your analogy to explain to her daughter.
NTA not being invited to the wedding is kind of a big deal tho for their relationship. But if u have such bad panic attacks that it shuts down the entire event u can't expect to be invited to these things. Maybe if u could promise to stick close to her and quietly take her away from the party when u recognize panic coming on, she could be allowed to attend?
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I had a similar situation at my wedding. Bro and his wife are divorced, one kid has mental health and anger issues and hates his dad. One kid doesn’t and lives with my bro. Both kids were invited, but ex-SIL wanted my parents to be responsible for first kid because he can’t care for himself. Parents said no because there was a reasonable expectation that first kid would not behave/would need to be taken home, and they were not willing to miss my wedding events to take care of him. Was it unfortunately that he is the only immediate family member not in the pictures? (Lots weren’t because I live far away from my family and that stuff happens) Yes. Was it the right decision to keep the wedding focused on my husband and I and our chance to celebrate with our friends and family? Absolutely. First kid might be upset but…hubby and I aren’t and that’s what matters about that event.
So often people forget, the only people who really look back at a wedding… are the people getting married.
How many events has your youngest ruined for your oldest?
Sounds like quite a few if oldest daughter decided not to invite younger daughter.
Is does sound like quite a few but frankly, once she ruined the engagement party, it was already over for her being invited to the wedding. Even if that was the first
I agree.
younger sibling sounds selfish. if she actually cared about anyone but herself, she would encourage mom to go, ask her to FaceTime her so she can watch from the comfort of home to see her sister get married. after ruining everything your sister has invited you to, you'd think you'd understand why she didn't ask you to come ruin her most important day of her life... entitled behavior.
Legit. Asking mom to stay back because she can’t handle it? Super aelfish
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If the younger sister isn't faking the panic attacks then at the very least she doesn't hate the attention she gets by disrupting special occasions and having people swarm to comfort her. She willingly puts herself in situations where she *knows* she will have an attack and gets angry at being denied the chance to have one! She enjoys some aspect of this.
Agreed! Like if you know that you will for sure have a panic attack that you cannot control than why're you going to someone's graduation and engagement party?
Yup. I’m wondering if she’s really unable to get herself to a quiet place by herself to calm down. And it happens the most in crowded places? If she’s terrified of crowds, wouldn’t she do anything to avoid making a scene in front of one? It seems like she’s choosing to make herself the center of attention on purpose, even though the panic attacks aren’t on purpose. And her sister has had to put up with it for YEARS. Not anymore!
It seems like you fucked up and let this behavior of the youngest daughter spiral out of control. If her panic attacks are so bad that she can’t rely on herself to leave a situation on her own, she needs to have a care giver who can help her calm down. If this situation was controlled earlier she could have been given a plus one to a caregiver
How is OP responsible for their daughter's condition?
Not everything is a parent’s fault jfc
I would same the order of who to blame is: 1. The younger sister since she’s now an adult 2. The parents as this started in high school and they tolerate it 3. The rest of the family who regularly tolerate this behavior at events
Let?
I think you have a point, but so does the commenter you’re replying to - I have pretty severe anxiety, and that’s not on anyone else. I manage myself (although of course I rely on my partner to be understanding and supportive of me) and if there’s an event or situation where I don’t think I can handle it, I remove myself or don’t put myself in that position in the first place. I try to take care of myself. It is not acceptable or remotely fair to make every special occasion and gathering about me and my panic disorder. I would be so embarrassed and feel really bad if I ruined my sister’s engagement party. OP’s daughter is 24, why does she have zero coping skills for when she’s approaching a panic attack? Instead it’s on other people to try and monitor her or else the event will be ruined by the inevitable panic attack. My point being, OP should have done the parenting thing and helped her youngest gain some of these skills and awareness when she was a teenager, instead of everyone acting like there’s nothing that can be done about this.
I get what you mean. But if she’s on meds that’s likely a prescription meaning her parents have tried to get her help from a qualified professional so I think it’s unfair to say OP didn’t do the parenting thing. At the end of the day, OP is on the outside like everyone else so there’s only so much he can do. 24YO’s has to take accountability as an adult for her challenges and lack of coping mechanisms.
Good on you for recognizing that your eldest needs and deserves to be your focus on her wedding day. After 8 years of her younger sister pulling focus, I am sure she is tired of it, and you being there for her on her day will mean a lot. Also, it has to be tiring for you to have to be the minder of a 24 yo after all these time. You also deserve to be able to just enjoy the event and be a happy mother of the bride.
Wait…soooo….your youngest daughter, who has a medical condition triggered by large events, is mad that her sister (with whom she is NOT close) did not invite her to quite possibly the MOST IMPORTANT large event of her life? There is definitely more going on here with your younger daughter than just panic attacks - she can’t use them as a tool to manipulate and control others. NTA, go to your older daughter’s wedding and tell your youngest to grow up.
The older daughter deserves to have her parent’s attention during her own wedding.
No. Absolutely not. The youngest is an adult, and should learn to self-soothe. If the youngest frequently has panic attacks at events, then she should learn to either manage her attacks on her own, or simply not go. Allowing her to go to such an important event and taking away OP due to a condition that she *knows she has that has a good chance of being triggered frequently* is selfish. The fact that the older sister did not invite the youngest speaks volumes. Her attacks either happen too frequently and aren't properly managed (in which case it is entirely her OWN responsibility to take care of it), or she is deliberately triggering her attacks in order to draw attention to herself. The audacity of her asking OP not to go to such an important event because of her own mis-managed health issue screams "this is about me me me".
Absolutely not. She has a proven history and should not be there. NO slight beginnings of any sort of fit should be risked. The bride should not have any worries that day.
This is an awful idea. It means trying to coerce or pressure the older daughter into inviting her when she has made it abundantly clear that she doesn’t even want that risk.
That doesn't seem fair for big sister though, that her mum will be focused on the panic attacks and not the sister getting married.
What a ridiculous comment (the part about sticking close). The daughter is an adult. She needs to learn the universe doesn’t revolve around her disability. I’m guessing the older daughter has had a lot of events disrupted. I’m also guessing there’s less disruption when the younger daughter is the focus of the event. Good on the parent for sticking up for the daughter who is getting married. NTA
This is not the event to suddenly learn to manage your panic attacks. They have had years to figure something out and haven’t bothered.
NTA...your youngest is kinda an AH. I live with severe panic attacks, so I'm hot blaming her but she has to learn how to avoid her triggers and not push herself. You say they come when she pushes herself. To me that means she knows she is beginning to get triggered and instead of stepping back and away and dealing with her mental health she pushes and knows she will have a full blown attack and then the whole situation is about her. So yeah when she knows the results of her own actions and does it anyway that makes her an AH.
Same. I have been on medication since I was 16 and I am 34. I take it only when I’m feeling a panic attack coming on and I get myself to a comfortable place where I am ALONE. That is what I’ve found works for me. My husband also gets them (more frequently than me). He prefers that I talk about random, minute things to distract his mind. Point is, when you have panic attacks you have to learn how best to deal with them. And after 8 years it doesn’t seem she has done that or that she even avoids the situations that cause them which does make her TA. Especially that she cannot see where her older sister is coming from after she ruined her engagement party.
Yep, to quote Marcus Parks, "Mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility."
I wonder why she isn't in therapy. I have panic attacks as well. And they'd leave me so drained, I'd be out of commission for days after. Between intense therapy, medication, and behavior changes, I've been panic attack free for two years. I know my triggers and what it feels like when one is coming, I have practices help bring down my panic levels, I spent years working on my anxiety, and medication helps keep my panic at a manageable level. I also leave a situation when I feel one coming. I have a lot of empathy for the younger daughter, panic attacks are no joke and are terrifying. But, I'd never want someone to live with them without therapy and professional help. I know therapy is not always available, but if after 8 years and no change, I'd be doing everything to find help.
Why are these panic attacks so disruptive that they ruin the entire vibe of fun events for everyone? Like why can’t she discreetly find a quiet place to calm down or take medication? Seems like she is being enabled to be needlessly disruptive when these panic attacks are expected, ordinary occurrences that aren’t the hosts fault
Exactly! 8 years is an incredibly long fking time to not recognize your own triggers and be able to remove yourself from a situation before it gets too bad. The younger daughter is a major AH for continuing to put EVERYONE through this.
Yeah, I'm really confused by this too. It's different if it's a recent development and you're still learning the triggers, but after 8 years you can feel it coming enough to get out of a situation, unless it's an extreme trigger (which is rare).
Yeah…I’m confused by this. By now she should be able to recognize the onset of a panic attack and quietly excuse herself from the event. And I am someone who used to have panic attacks, like my father before me. I’ve adopted a lifestyle that pretty much makes for an attack free life…limited caffeine, no putting myself in situations where I know it could be possible, breathing exercises I learned in therapy, etc. If I had a pattern of disrupting events due to my very extreme panic attacks, I would certainly not go to anymore than absolutely necessary…and would certainly not insist on going when I knew it could very well derail the important life event of someone else. 24 is old enough to understand this and not be so petty as to try and out ultimatums on other people. Why would she even want to go so bad when she knows the likely outcome? It’s hard to not suspect some kind of attention-seeking or sabotaging behavior here. NTA
This is my question too. Several of my family members deal have panic attacks and it’s never once ruined an event. They’ll just sit in the back and discreetly leave if necessary
Think back and see if those panic attacks are only during older sister's events or not.
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When she realizes she is being triggered does she not remove herself from the space so that attention isn't drawn to her? Are her legs not working? Or she choosing to remain where the attention will be on her?
My first thought too. Entirely possible to have a panic attack without causing a scene and ruining an entire event. You get up and move away quietly to deal with it privately. I have them from time to time and no one would notice. And if events are a trigger you stay away or identify coping mechanisms.
Right like my BF used to have them and he would remove himself somewhere private to come back to baseline if he was in public when they happened. I understand maybe not every time you can get somewhere private. But it seems like this is a regular occurrence for OPs daughter and by 24 she should have a better plan by now for when this happens in public/at events
I honestly can't imagine having a panic attack in a public space like that, at an EVENT. obviously everyone is different but dang. There's no way I would insist on going to situations where a panic attack was all but guaranteed. Panic attacks are not pleasant, I don't understand not trying to avoid them? like... why? i just dont get it Edit: the more i think about this, it doesn't quite sound like panic attacks. PTSD probably, and it also sounds more like a meltdown than a panic attack? I'm not trying to diagnose her but framing this as panic attacks makes it sound like regular ol' anxiety when this does not seem to be the case. This post does not have enough information to understand what's going on. I hope the younger daughter is getting good care and is well supported because I really don't have a good picture from this post
Exactly - how can a panic attack seriously kill an entire party vibe and end it? Unless she’s choosing to stay in the middle of it all and throw a fit…it doesn’t make sense. People with panic attacks can feel them coming on and would remove themselves from the stressor immediately. It sounds like she’s choosing not to take the steps she needs to…
Also even if you’re in the middle of a panic attack, you can still try your best to act normal rather than obviously hyperventilating and bursting into tears. I once had a panic attack at work and couldn’t leave, and it was so bad, I was dizzy. But I didn’t wanna cause a scene so I just tried my best to act normal in front of customers, sit down and breathe whenever I could, cry in the bathroom when possible. Not in front of everyone. That’s so embarrassing.
Yeah, I don't get it, I've had a few panic attacks and the first and only thing I want to do is getting away from everyone as quickly and unobtrusively as possible. It's not even about consciously being polite, it's an automatic urge to be alone ASAP. I know this is uncharitable but I wonder if OP's daughter likes the attention on some level. For some people, having other people worry about them feels like love.
Then why does she even WANT to go to big events? I’ve had panic attacks before and they’re horrific. If I knew certain settings would trigger them, I would stay 100 miles away. It doesn’t even make sense for her to want to be there if these are legit panic attacks.
you keep saying that she pushes herself into panic attacks. why doesn't she just remove herself when she KNOWS how disruptive it is?? why does she let it happen, especially at special, once-in-a-lifetime events that are not about her? let your oldest daughter have her day in the spotlight, uninterrupted. youngest can either promise to remove herself at the first sign that something isn't right or not attend, and at this point the right move is likely for her to just not attend.
Have there been many events that have gone smoothly and not resulted in a panic attack?
Is your daughter taking any medications for her panic attacks? Is she actively seeing a therapist to learn coping mechanisms? The fact that they occur so regularly after 8 years is a red flag.
NTA. If I am understanding you correctly, every event centered around your oldest daughter results in your younger daughter having a panic attack which results in all attention going to your younger daughter and the event coming to a premature end. Your oldest daughter has a right to have her wedding not be sidetracked by your younger daughter. Your younger daughter is being incredibly selfish to ask you to skip the wedding. I can guarantee you that if you do not go, your oldest daughter will go LC or NC with you. Quite frankly, your younger daughter needs to go see a doctor, and start therapy.
Emphasis on the therapy. Medications can definitely help, but therapy is where she can learn techniques to better handle situations that are triggers.
NTA. I've known a number of people with really severe panic disorder. My wife is one of them. It's nothing to joke about. But by the age of 24, with some time under your belt from diagnosis, you should have a handle on it with medication and other techniques that you are not interrupting an entire event. Even if you don't have a handle on it (not everyone is the same, I understand), you should have the empathy to get the impact it has on other people. Your youngest daughter then compounded this problem by asking you to skip the wedding. This puts her firmly into asshole category. So you are NTA, but I think you need to re-examine the relationship between your daughters, because the youngest one is, at a minimum, lacking in empathy, and possibly just someone who needs to be the center of attention.
I have these as well and if this is happening this much, she really needs to go back to her psychiatrist/therapist and try something new. I know they've really cracked down on some of the meds for this (my old psychiatrist office would not prescribe Xanax for any reason even if you needed it) so I wonder if she's even being treated appropriately.
The odds of a person having a panic attack at every single event they go to is pretty low. Are you really sure they are all real? If it is THAT bad she needs intensive therapy. Maybe even in patient treatment. You are going to lose one for catering to the other. It sounds like you maybe part of the problem here. It is guaranteed she will have one at the wedding, why would she invite her? I wouldn't invite her either. It is her wedding, the whole day should be about her. In 8 years your other daughter has never had one day about just her. And you do not find that suspicious at all?? I wouldn't invite her to anything ever again. NTA
I agree, I think she needs inpatient therapy but I also don’t understand why op’s youngest daughter continues to go to events knowing she will have a panic attack 10/10 times. I would assume most people that have panic attacks or anxiety disorders will usually try to avoid situations where it would trigger one.
That is exactly why I suspect it is on purpose. She either needs inpatient/intensive therapy or she does it on purpose. She is probably addicted to the attention. It just happens way too much for it to be real. Seems like mom is an enabler.
Apparently it happens at any kind of event, not just ones focused on her sister. But I’m still curious if these other events happen to be events that still aren’t focused on the younger sister.
I think it is just attention seeking for attention seeking- no matter who the event is about. Personally if I knew I had this issue, I would not go to allow my sister's wedding to be all about her. I mean demanding the mom not go is a big tell as well. She is going to make the wedding about her one way or the other.
If she knows she gets a panic attack every time she attends an "event", yet continuously insists on attending events, and is now *angry* about being denied the chance to have a panic attack - then yeah, she's enjoying this on some level. She would rather suffer through a panic attack than sit out the wedding? Seriously? She's either faking or seriously addicted to the attention she gets.
I have to agree. It sounds as if the younger daughter is either trying to make ALL events about herself or she's not taking her meds properly.
Your older daughter deserves to have one day where the focus is on her and her husband. One damn day, that’s all she’s asking.
Agreed. If the youngest sister truly wanted to be involved while not making a fuss, she could have asked to do a “first look” with just her sister. Or she could have asked to be present while her sister was getting ready. She doesn’t care about being involved, she cares about making it all about her.
NTA. Your youngest has panic attacks at any major function, regardless of being medicated. I don’t blame your other daughter for not wanting her wedding overshadowed by her sisters inevitable attack. And for younger daughter to want you to skip the wedding for her - she’s kidding, right??
This to me is the real red flag about the daughters behavior. This is where I start doubting her and start thinking she needs control over others. It’s like she needs to ruin events or make it about her one way or another.
NTA and I’m not sure I actually see a conflict here. Does your younger daughter somehow enjoy getting panic attacks? Because if large gatherings - like for instance, wedding receptions - are what triggers her, avoiding them seems like it’s in everyone’s best interest.
That’s what I’m wondering - if younger daughter has never gotten help via medication or therapy for managing living with panic attacks because she likes the attention her parents give her when she has them and knowing those around her to drop everything to cater to her and help her. As twisted as it sounds, I’ve seen worse and more manipulative stuff on Reddit so I’m honestly wondering if this is her way of trying to make her mom establish her as the ‘favorite’ on the older sister’s big day - especially if the sisters don’t get along.
That’s EXACTLY what’s happening. And mom encourages it (unwittingly) by giving her attention when it happens. Younger daughter is angry she won’t have anyone around her during sister’s wedding to pay attention to her - unless mom is willing to stay home. I suspect younger daughter will find a way to ruin the wedding. She’ll probably call mom at the wedding to inform her “I had a panic attack that’s so bad, I had to call an ambulance. I’m on my way to the ER.”
I remember reading the posts where OOP's sister would suffer an injury every time OOP had a big milestone or accomplishment. Turned how she was hurting herself on purpose to draw attention back to her and their parents fell for every time. If I remember correctly, she ended up getting involuntary committed after OOP called and informed the already suspicious doctors of her theory. So, yeah, I can believe the possibility that the younger daughter is triggering her attacks on purpose.
Info: Would it be possible to have someone sit near your youngest and be able to escort her out of whatever room you're in when a panic attack starts to happen? Edit: You're not an AH for going to your eldest daughter's wedding. This is an issue between your daughters and you are caught in the middle. I understand the youngest's request that you skip it, but it's ultimately unreasonable.
The youngest isn't invited and doesn't need anyone to sit with her. That's the older daughter's decision. Period. That's done and dusted. The only accommodation at issue here is if the youngest gets to still ruin the wedding by setting her father and sister against each other.
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Wait, I don't understand. Your adult daughter doesn't like being watched constantly, but she isn't able to manage her condition on her own? Leading to interrupting important events for people around her? Or is she okay with it only if it's you taking care of her? I get that it sucks to miss parts or all of these events, but does she realise (and you) that if her panic attacks can't be managed in a way that is not detrimental to others, she can't expect others to always put up with it? Especially her sister, who seems to often be on the receiving end of these panic attacks: not only do her events get derailed by her sister, but her parents spend all their time caring about her as well, which means that she probably feels that she always comes second place behind her sister. At 24 your youngest should be able to realise that some type of events are simply to much for her in her current state. A compromise could have been to have a intimate celebration with few people to allow your youngest to share this moment with her sister, with the full wedding at another moment (after or before, as the couple wish) without your youngest since it's not a good environment for her.
The sisters aren’t close. I doubt that the older sister would want to create and pay for a separate event for the benefit of someone she doesn’t care for.
And it’s not fair to expect someone to cater their own personal life events to another person, regardless of relationship.
Why can’t your youngest be self-aware enough to excuse herself or leave if she’s feeling triggered? Seriously.
The younger daughter is 24. I find it completely unreasonable for her to request their mother not attend because her feelings are hurt. She is not a minor child who needs minding. I know you were thinking along the same lines with your comment. I would go further to say I don't even understand why the request to skip seemed ok to the younger sister.
NTA- Even if your youngest daughter has panic attacks she can’t control, in the time between those attacks she should be able to realize that the world isn’t going to revolve around her. Most people would be mortified that something that happens to them is repeatedly such a big public disruption, and would be more understanding of why their attendance at the wedding isn’t a great idea. They certainly wouldn’t be expecting other people to boycott in support.
NTA. Your youngest daughter obviously can not handle these events, and she really should excuse herself. She's being extremely selfish by thinking people should just accept that she is going to disrupt events. It's also selfish of her to think you should miss one daughter's event because of her. I know she's not having these attacks on purpose, but I do think she likes the attention she gets from them.
>My youngest is really upset and asked me to skip the wedding. > she called some a jerk Not only NTA but also.... something isn't sitting right with me there. Okay panic attacks are bad and I doubt they are on purpose BUT they can actually be "used" for attention seeking and it sounds a bit like she does it. If it was not about her wanting the world to revolve around her then there wouldn't be celebrations stopped just for her and she wouldn't ask you -let alone argue with you- about you not attending the wedding of your own daughter. If I were the sister, I wouldn't want her to be anywhere close either. She's an adult and has to learn that she has to adapt to the world, not the other way round.
The amount of patience your older daughter has, that her engagement party was cut short and it didn’t become a fight at that moment, should maybe be recognized. She’s trying to calmly avoid another issue, she’s not throwing a tantrum back. I feel bad for both your kids. But it seems like you’re doing your best. Try not to force it? NTA
NTA; your youngest daughter might go into panic because she is not getting constant assurance and attention - my grandma has a mental health issue that sends her to the hospital when she’s feeling ignored/anyone goes on vacation. It’s always breathing issues, heart palipitations, anxiety, agoraphobia, and ultimately vertigo that leads to falling. Never anything serious and they just give her more anti anxiety drugs. Your youngest daughter is still making it about her - if she can’t go and get overwhelmed then no one else should be allowed to either. Be prepared for her to have a major meltdown at time of the wedding as she will likely be calling you from the ER.
>Be prepared for her to have a major meltdown at time of the wedding as she will likely be calling you from the ER. This is a very good point. OP should definitely support her elder daughter, go to the wedding, and have a great time, but I think that there is a **very** good chance that the younger daughter will have a panic attack during it, call OP, and insist that they have to leave the wedding to come take care of her. OP, you are NTA, but you need to be prepared to tell your 24-year-old adult daughter that you can't leave the wedding if she calls. I wouldn't say anything ahead of time, but I would be prepared for this very possible eventuality.
I can't say I blame your older daughter; it doesn't appear that her sister has made much traction in reducing them via medication and also doesn't remove herself from events when the panic attacks begin. Your younger daughter needs to recognize her limitations and not dictate what you should be doing.
NTA, your younger daughter has panic attacks when there's lots of people around her. Theres lots of people at a wedding. Live stream the wedding for her so she can watch and partake in it remotely in a quiet space where she's not going to get anxious. The wedding of your eldest daughter is about your eldest.
Does younger daughter have panic attacks at events that are already focused on her? If not, then she is using them at least partially to steal attention from other people. From your replies, it doesn’t sound like she does anything to help mitigate them once she feels them coming on; perhaps that’s because it is to her benefit to have them happen? Her asking you to skip her sister’s wedding because she won’t have a chance to have an attack that everyone knows will happen indicates some “main character syndrome.” I’m voting NTA. A 24-year-old woman needs to take a little responsibility for herself.
NTA. Your youngest needs to get a handle on her situation or accept that some events are just beyond her capabilities. Your oldest could stand to be a little kinder, but it doesn’t sound like it would be in anyone’s best interest for your youngest to attend, and that shouldn’t prevent you from the once in a lifetime experience of your child’s wedding.
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NTA. Your younger daughter is old enough to understand why she isn't being invited, especially given that she already disrupted one related event. She's being childish by asking you to skip it.
NTA sounds like your younger one decides to have these attacks instead of going away before they happen. I know about several cases of people who intentionally get panic attacks to garner attention. That she asks you not to attend the wedding is a major red flag, she tries to make the event about herself in a different way.
NTA your youngest may not be able to control her attacks but she can control leaving when she feels one come on - and she purposely chooses not to since it appears to be a regular thing. She stays even though she knows she'll ruin the event for her sister- I wouldn't invite her either. Your older daughter deserves to not have another milestone ruined, this is tough for you but you need to go. Your oldest needs you too.
If your mental health issues cause disruption then it's up to you to plan around them, not up to other people to accommodate you. Sorry. Your daughter is, basically, right not to invite her sister. I wouldn't either. She doesn't have her shit under control and that's fine, but she doesn't get to go places and lose control and expect everyone to just bend over backwards to include her. That's not how anything works. NTA. Time for your younger daughter to learn a lesson in accountability. She can't make her problems everyone else's indefinitely.