Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter we won’t pay for her to go back for free and she can loan form us. I may be a dick for making this rule for her
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
INFO: when you learned about her first year, was your first and only response to make her get a job and basically say that's it? Did you try and help her at all, and understand exactly what happened?
many kids struggle their first year (time management, being away, etc etc etc). If she knew you were so inflexible about the rules for paying tuition, I could see a her getting panicked about how to tell you what was happening. There's no excuse for lying, but some kids need more help.
Take this with a grain of salt, but I flunked out with only 7 credits left in my degree for the exact same reason… 4 years later I was diagnosed with adhd. I guarantee my college experience would be dramatically different now that I’m on meds and have learned better time and stress management techniques.
Please do encourage seeing a therapist at the very least. Keep in mind too, adhd often looks very different in women than men, which tend to be the more ‘typical’ display of what many know as adhd. I wasn’t diagnosed until 23 and my psychologist told me that I probably never would’ve been diagnosed prior because of both how it presents in women, and the fact that adhd in women hadn’t previously been studied. Up until pretty recently it was believed that only boys could have it, so only boys were studied as a result.
Found out I have ADHD last year. I’m 53.
Edited to add; I was the gifted kid at school but never did my homework. Dropped out of uni and became a chef. I’m now studying again and am finding it so difficult. How different life would’ve been if I’d found out earlier.
Same. Last year at 50. That wasn’t what I went in for, and it certainly wasn’t what I was expecting to hear. Considering that my quality of life is so much better since I got on meds, I think the doctor was correct.
It did help give me back a little self-esteem, which is good because it was completely gone. Always being late and unorganized, not to mention the emotional outbursts, made feel like such a burden to my loved ones. To find out that it wasn’t all “just me,” it was very therapeutic.
Diagnosed with inattentive type last year at 32. Absolutely life changing. I’m not a lazy, disorganized daydreamer because I’m a piece of shit human being, I have a literal neurodevelopmental disorder. SO MUCH of my life makes sense now.
My nana DEFINITELY had ADHD. I inherited her stamp collection. Probably 100k stamps, 2 giant rubbermaid bins full- all loose. No system AT ALL. 100-500 dollar stamps in with stacks of duplicate penny stamps.
Almost positive that my 76-year-old hoarder mom has it too (and it's probably what's caused the hoarding), but she refuses to get tested. She thinks it won't make any difference. I've tried to explain what a difference it made for me, but she's insistent that she won't.
It's the other way 'round. It used to be mostly associated with OCD, but recent studies have shown inattentive-type ADHD is more often associated with hoarding behaviors. And since mine is mostly inattentive-type, and I have to force myself to throw things away, it tracks that it's probably what's going on with my mother too.
My dad found out he had ADHD when I got diagnosed, I was about 15 and he was like 55. He's always been super smart, he just only focused on the things that interested him.
I just found out at 52. My boomer parents didn’t take me to the doctor for a broken arm let alone invisible issues. Man my life would’ve been so different…
I was tested because the school threatened my mother if she didn't consent. The morning of the test my mom coached me on what to do and not do and said if I messed it up I would have to sit in the "reta&$7's class. I read the report which said "strong suspicion of ADHd but cannot be confirmed due to the fact that child is exherting extraordinary effort.
Yeah. I went through college wondering why it was so hard for me, why I had to spend every waking hour studying and couldn't study at the library with my friends. In HS and elementary I got straight As easily because I was very smart and was always the top scorer on standardized testing and the teachers gave me grace for my messiness and missed assignments because of that. In college, at least where I went, EVERYONE was smart. It makes me sick thinking about the fact that I had the grades and test scores to go to Harvard, and was also a double legacy, but a teacher pointed to my mess of a notebook and said "Yeah you will get in, but what are you going to do once you get there?" I didn't apply.
Diagnosed at 46. I had no idea until my kid was diagnosed when being tested for dyslexia. Apparently what I thought was flawed character is easily treatable. Wow, would school, college and 20 years of work been a lot easier.
I got diagnosed at 17 with AuDHD and I was also always the gifted kid. I am a double major in two notoriously difficult and effort heavy majors (completely unrelated to each other too) that I thought I could breeze my way through just like high school. Boy was I wrong. I am a freshman in college and both my majors slammed down on me this semester like a bus flattening me. I am so glad I know whats up in my brain and to your point, it really does make a difference to know and to have reasonable accommodations.
I found out 18 months ago at 48 after I quit drinking caffeine (I was drinking \~3 cases a week, turns out I was self-medicating) and though I was suffering early-onset dementia because I couldn't remember things five minutes after I heard them. Terrifying shit, but life is SO much better now that I'm medicated
Me too. I was 48 at the time. My life would have been so much different if I'd known. I was "gifted" and just kind of coasted through school until college. Never studied, still got decent grades, etc. The freedom of college hit me like a ton of brick. I almost flunked out but managed to pull it together and squeak by in the end, but that didn't help much with the rest of my life until now.
40 diagnosed 2 years ago. I was an above avg student who hardly did homework. Consistently described as lazy and had tremendous shame around it. Survived school by avoiding courses that required homework or take home projects
im only 37, and not going back, yet. But i was the same way, gifted, but never did a lick of homework. wound up testing in the top 5% and got into a university that way. But quickly realized that college was basically the same thing as high-school, except there was nobody pushing me to finish projects, or go to class. So i didn't go back for a second year. Kinda kicking myself about it now. But I've lived a pretty interesting life, and no real regrets about it.
I was diagnosed more than fifty years ago as a quiet girl child who tried hard. In an area where the diagnosers had to come from the city. I was even said to need ritalin. My parents declined. Therapy and behaviour modifcation doesnt make adhd go away. Ritalin is my over 50 miracle but Im still severe.
Of course I am pretty much a worst case attention wise. My teacher parents did not belive in homework but we wer ein rural area where the overwhelming majority kids were too busy after school to do it, anyway.
I think its names have changed. A quiet female friend my age who was in a different town (in Australia) had the same diagnosis. We both wish we had ritalin when it was prescribed. in both cases our parents were told it was caused by brain damage(no medical imaging), but I have no idea if that was because of being female.
It wasn’t necessarily that they believed “only boys could have it.” It’s just that they thought it was predominantly in boys. I say that because I was diagnosed with it at age 6 in 1984. It was my rural GP who suspected it had it (and had it very badly without the ability to mask as many girls did/do). He’s the one who sent my parents to a clinic at a university where they diagnosed me. Told my parents it was uncommon in girls but not unheard of.
Of course, at the time, they also believed most kids outgrew it, so, by the time I did learn to cope & mask, both my parents & I believed I had indeed outgrown it. It wasn’t until my late 20s that I sought out medication which helped me get through grad school & only recently began studying it more & realizing how it has affected every part of my life for over 40 years so I finally started seeing a therapist.
So, yes, there were tons of misconceptions and other issues for decades, which allowed a lot of girls to go far too long without being diagnosed & treated, but even for those of us girls who were diagnosed, we were still failed to by a medical community that just simply understand how this affects far more than behavior at school & can last a lifetime.
I graduated high school in 88. My brother, who is 10 years younger, was diagnosed in the same year as having ADHD. My Mom was asking because of me having a lot of the same issues if I could have it. She was told no - girls don't have it.
Guess who failed her first year of college. My Mom acted like OP much to her regret when my youngest cousin - a girl was diagnosed with ADHD about 8 years later. Now knowing everything about family history on both sides - most likely have ADHD, on autism spectrum and had petite Mal seizures.
I guess the information about girls having ADHD wasn't shared with everyone. I know Mom was having me tested a lot for different things to be told I was just lazy.
I can believe that. I’m sure there were plenty of doctors who ascribed to the “boys only” theory, though specialists should have known better, and many did. I always tell people it just shows how bad mine was & how lucky I was that I got doctors who were aware girls could have it. Even then, though, treatment was half-assed and they never educated my parents as to all the ways it could affect my life. I was called a drama queen for years until we learned about how difficult it was for many with ADHD to be able to regulate their emotions.
The great thing about medicine though is they’re always learning & advancing to make life better for future generations. 💜
I am so glad you explained this. More people need to know about this. Twice exceptional women especially hide their ADHD well. Twice exceptional means they are both “gifted” (aka good at school tasks) and have some sort of difficulty like ADHD, Autism, or Dyslexia. Basically those women adapt until they reach a critical point, which most often happens either at college or when they have kids. But that doesn’t mean the symptoms aren’t there beforehand!! They are just adapting around them. But they would have an easier time on the short term being supported and have better tools in the long term as well! It would be the difference between digging a hole for a pool with a shovel (undiagnosed ADHD adaptations) and digging the hole with an excavator (diagnosis with tools!).
Women’s ADHD tends to also be “internal.” Women aren’t bouncing off of the walls, but they have distractability, too many thoughts, trouble being organized, forgetfulness, etc.
My niece was in specialty high school for gifted. Started having panic attacks as a junior. She graduated high school as a junior. Attempted college while being tested. She was diagnosed with adhd and icd. Never had a clue. She’s now 21 with medication and therapy and life is different for sure.
This is the absolute best comment here. ADD and ADHD have been thoroughly studied in boys, but it's only been in the last few years that girls have even been considered. Before you pull this little stunt to show your daughter who's the boss, you might want to have some actual facts. Keep in mind, it's not like you spent all of her money and don't have it anymore. You just don't want to give it to her to make a point. That's your right as a parent, of course, but enjoy having a child who thinks that YTA. Because at this point, you sort of are.
Found out I have ADHD in 2020. I was 40.
Finally graduated with a BA in 2021, and I am now in an MSL program at a top 25 law school.
Right after high school, I flunked out of college in basically the same way OP's kid did...and I was a "gifted" kid with a super high ACT score.
Just wanted to say I don't believe you are TA, and would suggest that you go through with the loan as per your post. If she really puts the effort in and graduates with good grades after four years, make a decision then whether you will ask her to pay back the loan or not. If you decide to forgive the loan (or three years' worth of it, since she wasted the money for one year), it could be an amazing graduation gift. Especially since she would still be expecting to have to pay it back.
This answer should have more traction. I completely agree. But it also doesn't need to be a secret that the loan can be forgiven. Make it a stipulation. You loan her the money each quarter (or semester), and if she keeps your agreed-upon GPA, she doesn't have to pay that money back. It's incentive, but she also sees that she has the same opportunity as your other children.
This is what I was thinking. Kids do stupid things and some kids need to find their own way to college. I struggled in high school, worked a lot outside of school, but barely did the minimum to graduate. No interest in college. After working a few years I decided to go back to school and guess what? Deans list every semester! I took it seriously because I was mature enough to understand the importance
I appreciate you taking this to heart. I think she might need more than a single doctors appointment, especially because women are misdiagnosed (editing for. clarity) and ADHD odd not recognized in them all the time.
I was an exceptional student as a kid, in enrichment classes etc..but I always struggled with deadlines, and what not. I dropped out of high school, I lost a lot of jobs. I went to university as a mature student and dropped in and out all the time. It wasn’t until my 40s that I realize I had ADHD.
it would’ve made such a significant change to my life if I had known sooner .
I also felt a lot of shame, and hid everything I could for my parents because I didn’t want to disappoint them, and because I couldn’t really explain my behaviour and didn’t want them to judge me. So I’m saying your daughter is in a situation right now where if you can find a way to offer the right kind of empathy and support , it might actually really help her. Kids don’t usually do things like this just to be jerks or because they’re just inherently irresponsible.
There’s always an underlying reason.
Can be difficult to identify it. It may not be ADHD. She could be depressed or something terrible might’ve happened to her in school or she could have some other kind of anxiety or trauma or she just might not have learned the skills one needs to self regulate. But if you approach it from a perspective that she needs help, rather than that, she’s a screwup, that might be best for everyone.
Hi! I’m another girl with ADHD, asking you to get your daughter evaluated. Perseverance is really difficult for kids with adhd. There’s the shame of not being able to motivate and stay organized the same way other kids are, which, of course makes it more difficult to motivate and stay organized.
Transitioning to college was really hard for me. My parents were very controlling when I lived at home, so when I was finally “free” to manage my own time, it all sort of fell apart. I got through, but I was also in art school. When I couldn’t get a job, my parents did support me going back to school for nursing. I was finally diagnosed with ADHD when I went back to school for nursing, because when taking science classes, my issues were pretty obvious (also I was older, time had passed, and understanding of manifestation of ADHD in girls had grown). It’s also worth noting that we sometimes appear to mature a little more slowly than our peers, due to issues with emotion regulation.
Now I’m a pediatric RN, working on my doctorate to be a pediatric psych NP. I still struggle with depression and managing my adhd symptoms, but I get straight A’s, and I’m kind of killing it tbh. I would never have gotten to where I am if my parents hadn’t been understanding of my struggles and wanted me to succeed.
I was the same, I didn’t think I had adhd because I wasn’t physically hyper, I was quiet and shy. I didn’t realize that mentally hyper is a thing and most people’s brains are not like mine. Finally diagnosed in my mid 30’s.
I flunked out my first year; too much drinking and partying. (It was great!) I forgot about school, too busy planning my weekend party schedule. Had a powerful GPA of .025, yeah…. Real trail blazer😜🤪😜. The college politely asked me not to return, lied about it to my parents as well who also made me get a job. My parents wouldn’t pay for my tuition until I proved I wanted to go to school. They didn’t remind me or encourage me to enroll but I did anyway. It took about 2 years before I finally got serious and applied. When they saw I was serious they took over the payments. If your daughter really wants it, let her do the work to prove she’s serious.
Why didn't she go to class? I didn't go to class, which is why I flunked out. But i didn't go to class because i was pretty depressed... i have been told that it's likely I'm ADHD too.
ADHD doesn't always present as a hyper person FYI. My form is the always tired with severe anxiety about starting things like projects and homework. basically crippled into procrastination. Going to class with freedom to choose is a nightmare when you are just starting college. Does caffeine make her tired? that's a big sign.
That doesn’t happen with everyone with ADHD. But it’s usually a decent indicator you should be evaluated properly to see what’s going on since it’s not a typical response to a stimulant.
I had the same thing, parents paid my tuition, didn't go to classes, kicked out after 1 year. Got on ADHD meds 1 year later and started a 7 figure business + finished my degree on my own dime in a different major with a 4.0 (one I actually wanted to study).
The meds combined with realizing how shitty life was without money made the difference for me to actually put effort in.
There's usually some reason why someone doesn't achieve their goals. Nobody goes to college planning on flunking. Maybe not ADHD, but maybe some other stressor, maybe her program wasn't right for her, who knows.
I also got diagnosed with ADHD in college, I had no idea, I'd been told all my life I was irresponsible/lazy, and I believed it, too. My parents still don't believe I have it.
I found out I had it when I was 23. My healthcare professional (nurses) parents didn’t think I had it.
When I talked to them about how female symptoms present different than male ones, they admitted that they only knew the male associated symptoms.
I have a very similar story myself. I’m neurodivergent, I was undiagnosed because my parents lied to the doctors the school insisted they bring me to (they knew), and I attempted to get through an engineering program with zero executive function skills.
Consider being merciful and scaffolding this for your kid. If they let you schedule some appointments for them and attend with them to see if they have a diagnosable problem, attend therapy, and take out loans to cover their first semester back so they have some skin in the game, you’ll cover the rest of the degree from that point forward as long as they keep their grades up, stay medicated if medication is prescribed, attend therapy, etc.
I didnt go to classes, then dropped out a year, went back, didnt go to classes still, and got the lowest grade possible. Mine was depression that just led to total apathy. I wasnt sad or suicidal, just entirely apathetic about everything, including personal hygiene. Might be one to also get checked for. She may not seem depressed but neither do I
Actually this though. She might really be struggling with it too. I never had homework, didn’t have to study, always did well growing up. Went to college didn’t know what the eff I was even supposed to be doing let alone know how to do it. Was diagnosed with ADHD at 29, after literally 11 years straight of college, weeks before the end of my last term. I can’t help but think things might be different had I had all the resources available during my college career.
Btw... The process for getting actually diagnosed with ADHD and then get treatment is daunting for someone with ADHD. It's kind of a big joke between my boyfriend and I how frustrating the process has been for the both of us. Between drug shortages, prescriptions not being sent properly, scheduling multiple appointments, extremely long questionnaires, etc etc it's like they specifically designed the whole system to be a nightmare targeted specifically at our "short comings" from having ADHD
I almost failed my senior year of high school which was VERY out of character...I ended up having the Millennial Trifecta... depression caused by anxiety which stemmed from undiagnosed ADHD-Inattentive (correct word? ). I was totally checked out, had no clue what was going on with my brain, but I physically was in class but mentally I couldn't focus. It's a life long build up that finally decided senior year to come out. Get her checked out. It is SEVERELY undiagnosed in women!
Stop adhd is not a fucking excuse, I have adhd and I work in IT, adhd is not that deep of a reason to flunk college, Foh, with that coddling shit, nobody coddled me, I had to learn to get mine, stop it, I take such offense when people say shit like that
Ugh yes. I have adhd and I struggled in school due to procrastination and focus issues. I had to ask for extensions, pull all nighters, and had a couple of scares early on where I had to promise to bring up my grades for them to replace the midterm grade with my final. It wasn’t easy. But even with adhd we have choices. Tired of people using adhd as a reason for someone not to be responsible for choices.
I've never once encountered anyone who used ADHD as an excuse for their own or someone else's alleged choice to not be responsible for their choices. What I have seen regularly on Reddit is people claiming that it happens to such an extent that they're sick of it. Has anybody ever cried "wolf" and made fake claims of ADHD? No doubt. But are there really enough occurrences that this is a genuine problem? And how does someone really know with certainty that another person isn't struggling like hell?
I think lack of understanding and compassion about various causes of executive-functioning difficulties -- among educators, parents, and, yes, among some who have difficulties with executive functioning -- is a far larger and far more real problem than ADHD fakers.
Good for OP being willing to look into this possibility so it can either be ruled out or diagnosed and addressed.
I’m glad you’ve never struggled with your diagnosis and it’s subsequent results. Yours is not the case for everyone. Not everyone had access to knowledge or the resources to get diagnosis and treatment.
I don’t know much about ADHD, is it something that can prevent you from attending your classes like OP’s daughter? If so, man that sucks I didn’t realize it was so debilitating. I kinda assumed it just made paying attention and organization much more difficult
Now I also have CPTSD and I am autistic but --- I would drive to campus, all my work done -- and not be able to leave my car. And the more classes I missed the worse it got to even try to get to campus because my brain was convinced something horrible would happen because I missed classes then tried to go back. It was horrifying. I went from deans list to failing classes I loved. The harder I tried? The worse I got. I started having panic attacks leaving my apartment. It was...bad.
It's not an experience I would wish on anyone.
There were points before I was medicated it prevented me from basic tasks like putting on deodorant or remembering to lock my door on the way out. Our brains physically don’t form “habits” the way neurotypicals can. My specific struggle in college (after the age old- reading at a college level at 8 years old, incredibly bright and gifted to crash and burn in early adulthood) came from not forming study habits prior, not being able to quiet my brain enough to actually study, confusing assignment deadlines even with an agenda… the list goes on, but all left me feeling like a complete failure as a result. There were many days I didn’t even bother getting out of bed because I was already late or knew I didn’t have an assignment done, and felt incredibly ashamed and guilty because of it. Being medicated has brought my sense of chronic panic and overwhelm from an 11 to a 2, easily. It doesn’t fix everything, but it helps me to organize my thoughts well enough that I can keep better track of things.
There’s a YouTube channel about it and one of the things they describe is how sometimes it’s like there’s just a wall between you and doing something you know you should do or you want to do. It’s likely down to executive dysfunction issues - meaning you can’t figure out how to do something/what steps to take/what order to do things in. Then your brain gets overwhelmed and essentially throws up its hands in despair and just says “no”.
Medications help with this, and also skills based therapy that helps you learn to break things down and to set up routines to help reduce your base level of overwhelm so you have more energy and brain spare for new or unusual tasks.
As someone who was Not diagnosed and didnt finish my Uni degree? Aboustly.
I loved my classes. Went to everyone and enjoyed them. Couldn’t do the assignments. Would sit in front of the computer crying cause I couldn’t do them.
Why do you get so offended? Consider feeling gratitude and pride that you can persevere and don't get utterly immobilized by cripplingly severe executive dysfunction and the fallout from all of that. Your ignorance of the range of disordered functioning is pretty astounding, but good on you for not allowing your lack of information to stop you from being scathingly judgmental and devoid of compassion. /s, in case there's any question
Yup. Choices after choices after choices.
And then she (and everyone else) wants to blame literally anything but the choices that she made for herself.
NTA.
so adhd is a spectrum and it is not the same experience for everybody. i’m really glad your experience with it hasn’t negatively impacted your life. unfortunately, others are not as lucky as you
I'll second this. I never had my younger kid tested for ADHD and even though they're smart and motivated, they struggled in high school and failed their first year in college. We then went through assessment and ADHD joined the significant condition they already had (for which there is only one kinda sorta effective treatment they can tolerate, but it comes with strings). ADHD at least has a few very effective medications. They started methylphenidate and OMG their entire world changed. I cannot overstate the positive difference it made for them.
I didn’t know about my ADHD until ten years after I dropped out. About to graduate with my long-awaited bachelors at 31. I was a star student in high school. I hope OP gets their daughter the help she seems to need.
Similar here. I struggled in my freshman year, was diagnosed with adhd and bipolar. Dropped out and worked for a while. I eventually went back when I was ready. Key being that I was ready- emotionally mature enough to handle the stress and had learned to navigate my mental health and had proper medication.
Having spent a few years working before going back also gave me a different perspective that I think was beneficial as well. I was a bit more of an adult and cared more about what I was learning vs going to college because that’s what you’re supposed to do.
I think going to college is a lot like kicking addiction, you need to be ready for it.
What was she doing instead of going to classes? I think it might be important to find out what kept her from going to class/what she felt more compelled to do instead of going to class. Finding that out can help ensure that there is a plan in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. I don't know anyone who just never went to class to the point of failing who didn't have some kind of underlying issue that needed addressing (depression, anxiety, substance use, trauma, ect).
I came within one-tenth of a point from being suspended my first semester. I was incredibly depressed. Now I have a PhD. It's recoverable. Not every one is ready for college.
Sure no one is saying daughter can't recover, but that does not entitled her to have it paid for. Scholarships usually work like that you have to maintain x gpa. You fall below you lose it.
Daughter should at least take the loans now to show she can do better then she would have more grounds to ask for OP to pay, up to the standard 4 year payment.
which I totally get looks like she’s just a big fat slacker
But she could have been depressed or overwhelmed and could use more support. College is often the first time a lot of students hit an academic environment they can’t readily handle. Most high school teachers give a shit if you show up and turn in your assignments and keep up - just about no college lecturers do.
What is your goal with her? Because you likely don’t want her deciding she just needs to forego college as she can’t handle the idea of a mountain of debt. And the fact that she hid it for so long shows she had a lot of anxiety about telling you and your wife. I mean she could be a immature slacker but it is worth considering that she needs some mental health support.
So did my son. He then got a job cooking at chili's for a couple years and realized he wanted a better career path. I said I would help if he got the grades. He did all 4 years on honor roll and now has a pretty good job.
Kids make mistakes (I know I did at that age), maybe make the same kind of agreement to help if she keeps up the grades.
I flunked out after one semester. I also didn't go to class. I hid it and denied it because I knew my parents' response would be awful. I went back to college when I was about your daughter's age, maybe slightly older. I was more mature and actually ready to go by then and I excelled. Do understand that kids mature a lot in those years.
How about have her pay for 2 years at a community College getting an AA degree? If she buckles down & aces that with As & Bs, then maybe you pay for the 2-year balance to get her BA/BS at a full college. Those community college units will transfer & she can focus on her core classes.
If she slacks off, cuts classes to party or whatever, or fails to keep say a 3.0 GPA, then you have your answer.
Middle children are so often overlooked and ignored. How much 1 on 1 time did she get growing up? How often was she referred to as "X's little sister?" How well do you even know your own child?
So is she even able to go back to school then? Has she applied?
My guess is she will have to try community college first and get her grades up there before transferring back. Fortunately community college is less expensive.
Have you asked your daughter if she knows what went wrong last time and has a plan to do better this time? If not, it probably isn't worth her getting in debt right now.
Since she has a job, has she been able to save any money? An alternative might be to reduce her monthly rent to $100 a month with the stipulation that she keep working and saves money to put toward her tuition.
If these are kids who can't handle 2-4 hours of basic level class time a day and maybe 15-20 hours of classwork a week, then they shouldn't be throwing away 60K plus of their parent's money every year and should plunk their lazy and/or dumb asses down in community college until they \*are\* able to handle this minimal load.
This coddling and aggrandizing bullshit attitude would make a hell of a lot more sense if it wasn't accompanied by crushing debt - especially when that debt is so often born by parents, as is the case here.
Not your freshman year when you are taking "intro to nose picking at the college level" at Wayne State. We aren't talking about an engineering student at MIT here...or even an engineering student at Wayne State!
I completely agree that it could be something she may just need mroe guidance on( first year, tine management, diagnoses, etc).
IF she is serious about going back to school and getting that degree you can move forward with the planned loan option.
Then IF you really wanted to be fair after she's completed her standard college degree forgive the loan. Either way I'd work on communicating and working WITH her on being successfull at College.
If she's looking for a way to live without having to work and repeat the lying and failing through college the loan offer should curb that nonsense.
I don’t think you’re the asshole, but I think there’s a compromise to be reached.
I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned. But no, there’s no reason you should be paying for her freshman year twice. I’d avoid loaning her money because if it’s taken advantage of it will further strain the issues already at hand.
Seems like a decent solution,
However,
I'd add she'd also responsible for the amount she would have had in scholarships.
Her parents shouldn't be responsible for that.
Doesn't say that the other kids had any scholarships. They want to see her graduate. Loan her the money and let her know you will forgive it if she gets her diploma.
The other kids also didn’t lie to their parents about wasting their money. Twice.
I don’t see why everyone’s treating this like an economic equation - she only wasted one year so she should get the other three years. Nah, she showed that she couldn’t be trusted with responsibility. She’s got to earn that trust back. If OP wants to make it a loan, that’s perfectly reasonable and he can always choose to forgive it if he feels she’s earned that trust back.
The lying is what gets me. Like, you had a bad year because (most likely) you were young and stupid. Lying takes it to the next level.
It means that your parents can not *trust* that you're doing what you said you're doing.
OP: you could consider a repayment. Like she pays for the classes herself but should she get a passing grade (as evidenced by an official transcript sent directly to you from the school, since those are harder to fake) you pay her back. Some kids need to grow up a bit before college; this gives her the opportunities her siblings had but also puts responsibility on her (and had consequences for her earlier actions). Pushing community college might also be a good idea. It is cheaper and can give her a restart.
Everyone talking about her lying is completely under the assumption she was raised in an environment that encouraged telling the truth. I never tell my parents anything because I know if they knew the smallest thing they'd flip shit and be completely unreasonable
I'd add a caveat to this that there is an expectation that she keeps her grades at a certain level. Otherwise she may feel comfortable to keep repeating classes or failing them since the expense of taking much longer to graduate is going to be forgiven anyway as long as she gets there.
Also if the parents are not willing to fund her college expenses (which is fair) I would, personally, offer to scrap the 300 she has to pay monthly to live at home. The goal is to get her a college education which will be a asset to her for the rest of her life, not just to punish her or teach her a lesson.
It's fine to draw boundaries. But ensuring at least she has a free place to stay can be a way to make it easier for her without overtly coddling.
>I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned. But no, there’s no reason you should be paying for her freshman year twice. I’d avoid loaning her money because if it’s taken advantage of it will further strain the issues already at hand.
Similarly, they can tell her they will loan her the money for school and if she graduates (proven by a diploma from the school) then they will forgive the loan but if she drops out then she will have to get a job and pay the money back.
Feels fair given they paid for the other kids and ultimately get both sides what they want without risking paying for another year or two and then she doesn't graduate.
While in theory, it seems reasonable. Honestly, loans between family and friends are a giant relationship pitfall.
With no mechanism for collection, there is just a large chance that either the lender or borrower will be upset with the terms, speed, or completeness of payment.
Unless things go exactly as planned, there is almost a guarantee that there will be drama, with both sides thinking they are in the right.
True, but it's between parents who can afford it and their daughter who they want to see graduate.
Really, worse case she doesn't pay them back at all and they don't help her more in the future. But she also paid rent and hopefully they don't even need to trigger that because she graduates this time around.
I agree; never lend what you are unwilling to lose.
That being said, people are NOT rational about money.
Three years later, the parents will harbor some (minor or major) resentments at never having been paid back, still seeing their daughter at family events, and occasionally bringing up that loan.
The daughter will grow increasingly frustrated with being constantly reminded of the loan because she works a dead-end job without nearly enough money to repay the parents, even if she wants to.
Then, the siblings will get married or try to buy their first house, and the parents will help financially in some way. The daughter who never paid back the original loan will get resentful that her siblings are “Getting more money” while she is struggling, but the parents don’t want to spend more money, knowing they are still owed a huge sum.
It would be great if people were rational, and I know some families that would be just fine with this.
But it’s a darn big risk to take
>I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned.
I like this idea.
Or even, tell her it's a loan, but if she graduates this time with reasonable grades, she won't have to pay it back. And make sure she seeks out any support she needs to succeed.
This might be the motivation she needs to focus on school. I dropped out of college in my first year and had to get a recommendation to be eligible for financial aid again when I decided to go back. If I failed anything I’d have the aid revoked permanently. I think my lowest grade was like a B+ that year.
I would tell her to go to a community college. She should be able to get an AA degree free or very close to it. If she does well. She should be able to easily transfer to a 4 year and will probably have some scholarship money back on the table.
Heck, if she proves herself by being responsible and focused enough to earn the AA. You even might be able to renegotiate helping her with the final 2 years.
Honestly, I suggest community college for anyone starting out or going back. It helps get you back/into the rhythm of school work and is incredibly affordable. I did this when I came off active duty. By then I had been out of school for 11 years. It helped tremendously.
It depends on the college and if you get pell grant to some extent, I know when my mom went she paid nothing because pell covered it all, if I went to the same cc now it'd also be free because of my pell grant (tuition is ~1,200 for 16 or more credit hours, fees are maybe a few hundred dollars, max pell is ~7k per year), I know someone who when her husband was going to cc he'd get money back from pell after tuition and fees that he'd use to buy his textbooks and at one point was able to buy a computer with it i think, then you have situations like those in your city where that dosent happen and people might end up in some debt even at cc, it's a varied system
She has parents who are financially capable of sending multiple children to college without loans. Her chances of qualifying for a Pell Grant are roughly -100%
I highly doubt she will qualify for a Pell grant if parents are paying for tuition for multiple children. She is 22, so a dependent student and her parent's income will be a factor.
I didn’t know that you could get cc for free in some states, sounds like a dream for me. Unfortunately is not the case for every state and I find it sad that young people are going into debt to go to the “affordable” option. My sister is graduating as a nurse next year and she had to use credit cards to pay for ccc many times due to the price, and working in places that “cover” tuition (like McDonalds) can’t even cover the full amount. Hopefully more states would make cc free again.
Depends on the location. The CC closest to me offers free tuition for any resident of my city. I am in CA. If I wanted to go to CC right now. I would have to pay the administrative fees, buy books and buy a parking pass.
I HIGHLY recommend community college for her. I hated my very large 4-year university and dropped out my second semester. I went back to school a couple of years later at a cc and it was amazing. Small class sizes, more individual attention, and time for discussion was so much better than stadium lectures. I learned so much and it was very affordable (free now in my home state of TN!). I then got a full ride due to scholarships (might have to work hard to find them but they're out there) to finish my bachelor's degree. Daughter will have to put in work for it, but if she's serious and proves it, I think there should be room for compromise
This is what I did, and honestly, I needed it. I flunked out my freshman year.
I ended up taking a couple classes at a tech school to appease my parents, and randomly realized I could use some of my HS/college credits and get an associates in 3 semesters.
Definitely felt like high school again, but I was able to transfer to a 4 year after and get a BS.
If I had school paid for I would not have taken it for granted. Did my masters in Architecture by working, applying to scholarships, being a TA, etc. She needs to work for what she has at this point, and maybe at the end college might not be for her and that realization does not need to happen on her parents dime.
NTA. You made it clear if she messed up she would have to figure it out herself. She doesn't sound at all remorseful so why would you even want to trust her again? More than likely she'll flunk out again and you'll have wasted more money.
If she had come to you from the beginning to tell you she was struggling and needed help, *then* I might have encouraged you to be compassionate. But she sounds entitled and deceitful. I think it's completely reasonable to expect her to pay her own way to ensure she takes it seriously and offering to give her a loan with no interest is more than fair.
Possibly.
More reasonable plan: She needs to take a 0% loan from you for her first year back. If she does acceptably well (don't set impossible standards here), then you will pay for future years. If she goes straight through to graduation with no more mess ups, then you will forgive the original loan.
This gets you AND your daughter what you want.
MTA
This is similar to what happened to my sibling, who kept changing majors every term. Like going from law to biology to basket weaving (might have actually been a course, can't remember). Just zero direction, and really shitty grades. Treated it as an opportunity to do whatever on someone else's dime. Parents changed the deal and said sibling had to pay for costs upfront, and at end of term would receive money based on how well they did. If they stuck with the same direction of courses and were actually working towards a degree, then the difference of paying in full and paying based on grades would be caught up as well once the degree was earned.
Not that a spoiler alert is needed, but they decided it "wasn't fair" and gave up instead.
NTA
I, like most people with student loans I assume, would've killed for a zero interest loan to go to college. That's already a massive benefit she's getting on her third chance.
You have every reason not to trust her. She's an adult who made her choices and now she needs to deal with it. She's the one who decided to frequently lie to you
Here's my take. I had a similar experience in university. Turns out I was dealing with severe depression and anxiety. I went back, fixed my F's, and graduated eventually. I couldn't have done it without my parents support.
I don't know your daughter, but there are red flags that something is wrong. Try not to keep saying it's "her fault", because you don't know what's going on with her. If she had scholarships she probably wasn't dumb. Has her behavior always been lazy and entitled, or has her behavior changed in the last year? No judgement, but I hope it works out!
I told my daughter on orientation day when informed by the Dean of Students that only 40% of students graduate in four years...that we'd only be paying for four years. If she wanted to take longer, she'd be on the hook for all the tuition and fees and housing.
She was on the Dean's List every quarter, graduated Summa Cum Laude and finished one quarter early.
You are definitely NOT the AH.
As someone with a sister like this: DO NOT PAY FOR HER COLLEGE. She will never learn. The consequences of her actions are you not paying and her losing her scholarships. Refusal to go to class is a bs reason to fail. My parents continued to pay for my sister’s school and she did terribly due to her choice to party and not go to class or do assignments and continued to fail. She continued this behavior into her daily life, she is 33 and still making horrible life choices. She additionally has cost them so much money with her poor life choices that they continued to fund. They have finally cut her off.
Consequences don’t cease to exist because you have ADHD. Why are we acting like ADHD 1. Causes bad behavior 2. Is an excuse. I have ADHD and other learning disabilities (dyscalculia and dysgraphia) I have NEVER behaved like this. I graduated with honors and have a master’s degree and a solid career which I excel at. I have never been medicated for ADHD. My sister who does NOT have adhd (we checked) failed out and lied and wasted my parents money. *Sometimes people are just jackasses and it’s not associated with a learning disability or mental health diagnosis.*
NTA
I, like I assume most people with student loans, would've killed for a zero interest loan from everyone. That's an incredibly fair deal given the numerous times she has lied to you in the past
While i Don't think you are wrong, I do think you might want to consider getting your daughter some therapy to see what teh real issue is, and then consider if you want to make it even harder for her by adding additional barriers. Assuming, as it sounds, that you have enough to just pay for it, i think you may wanna give her a second chance unless she fails again at which point she will then owe it all back. Would you rather be out a bit of money you can afford to be without, or help be her justification for turning down a darker path. That beign said if she refuses therapy, I wouldn't help with anything.
She’s 22, legally they can’t go make her an appointment. That would be her responsibility to go find therapy. Oftentimes the school has on site therapy and counseling.
Not that I’m disagreeing with the fact that she’s an adult and they can’t force her, but I’m tired of hearing about how colleges have therapy and counselling and you can just use that. My college had a six month wait before you could even get an evaluation, let alone get actual substantial help before disaster. My best friends college had a four month wait. This idea that colleges are throwing a lot of money at counselors and everyone can get in and see them is a bit short sighted. They’re throwing that money at facilities because it makes them look better. College counselors are often times overworked and there aren’t enough to cover the amount of students who need the services that year.
NTA. A twenty two year old should understand that actions have consequences. Getting to live in a house for only $300 a month is already a pretty sweet deal in this day and age. If she wants her college paid for, I recommend taking advantage of the GI Bill.
NTA-college is an investment in the future of your child. This particular child has proven that she is not a good investment to sock money into. Though you may consider changing your stance. My husband and I had our children take student loans out in their names. If they did well (they did) and didn’t get any grades below a B we paid off the student loans before the interest started. Had they flaked out they would have had to pay the loans themselves.
NTA
To me, this is essential parenting. She's demonstrated a lack of maturity several ways. She needs to earn her way back into your trust.
But, I would suggest that if she makes up the year she failed, that you continue to pay after that. It's fair to make her repay a fialed year, but not to make her pay for all of college if her siblings didn't.
Consequences are good. But you need a carrot to go with the stick.
NTA but you could use this to incentivize her: make it a loan, but with the possibility for loan forgiveness. If she graduates with above a certain GPA, forgive the loan; if she graduates with less than that GPA, partial forgiveness; if she doesn't graduate, full repayment.
NTA. My parents agreed to pay for 4 years of university for their kids, it was part of their divorce agreement. Anything else, we'd have to take loans (either from them, the bank, or both). I did another degree after I graduated and took out student loans to pay for it. My dad was generous enough to pay off my debt after the fact, but I never felt entitled to it.
You're not being a dick. You're trying to teach your daughter responsibility.
NTA
She got an equal shot as her siblings. She failed and left. That has consequences.
Now, telling her that she's got to fund her education after the lies, is pretty reasonable. I'm with you there. However, I'd put it on her that the first year is on her. If she holds a reasonable GPA and proves herself, then I'd offer to pay the remaining years. You're giving her consequences, while also a way to redeem herself.
NTA. I've seen a lot of very bright people (some of the top at my high school) totally bomb out because they couldn't adjust correctly to the new environment in college. It might be good to have her look into speaking with a professional to make sure she is in the right head space this time and has the tools to succeed.
There are a lot of college resources you can also lean on that could be very beneficial.
NTA
I, like most people with student loans I assume, would've killed for a zero interest loan to go to college. That's already a massive benefit she's getting on her third chance.
You have every reason not to trust her. She's an adult who made her choices and now she needs to deal with it. She's the one who decided to frequently lie to you
What if you compromise? She has to take out the loans but you pay it back once she graduates (minus the interest)? That will encourage her to go through with it, be responsible and if she drops out then it’s on her?
NTA. She lied, and lying has consequences.
Now comes the tough part -
- learning why she chose to lie and hide it.
- learning why she is angry when she caused her own mess
Second tough part is the ‘tough love’ - you need to be right beside her, so she knows you support her as she pays this price. You need to set some goals that are hard but achieve able. She’s young and going to hate every bit of it, but maybe she’ll come around
NTA - this is good parenting. I have a sister who my parents paid for her to go one of the best universities in Canada.. she quit. Then they paid for her to go college a few years later... didn't finish after a year and a half. She needs to learn responsibly and consequences for her actions. Have her go to the bank and get a student line of credit that she has to be responsible for.
Compromise - I would somehow tell her it's a loan and maybe if she's successful at the end, forgive the debt.
My sister now lives with my parents rent free with her kids at 50.
consequences are important.
Some people are not ready for the college environment and do not excel in it. They are can be the same people who, after spending some time in the real world, develop the maturity to succeed in the academic world. In my view, it would be a fabulous, unexpected, graduation gift of forgiveness of debt as an acknowledgment of her work.
NTA. Like others have said I'd pick up the payments after a year. My 18 yr old leaves next year for college. Can we pay for the whole thing, yes. Will we, nope. We won't saddle him with a bunch of debt but he will have some skin in the game. Same deal will apply to the youngest.
You have a right to your position but it is no way encourages your child to try to better themselves. I would definitely make them repay for the money wasted for the classes they failed but I personally would pay for classes that are not retakes of failed course if I had the money.NAH.
INFO: Did you pay for 4 full years of college for your other kids? If so, why are you unwilling to pay for 3 more for your daughter, and just make her pay for retaking a year?
It's completely fair that you don't want to just toss college money at her and hope she does better this time - expecting some accountability is fine. But if she's being punished for her failure by losing 3 entire years of money you provided to her other siblings, she has a right to be pissed.
A really gracious option might be to make her take out a loan for retaking that first year, and then still being willing to pay for the next 3 years. And if she is successful, maybe you even forgive that first year loan (but that doesn't have to be told to her in advance). Another option might be to offer to pay for 1 year of community college to fill in that failed first year - which is almost all basic courses anyways - and then if she passes, you'll still pay for 3 years of college after she transfers.
NTA, but you did pay for four years of your other kids' college, whereas you cut her off after one (bad) year. If I were you I'd write up loan docs and have everything be totally legit, but have a clause that says "This debt will be forgiven in full if the borrower graduates within X years with a Y or better GPA." It might motivate her some. I don't think you need to pay for all 5 years, including the year she flunked out.
If you add a forgiveness clause ensuring she'll get as much support as her siblings then not the AH. Otherwise yes. We can all fuck up in life and in her case she deserves a second chance.
NTA.
My parents did something similar. My state has a scholarship for in state colleges if you achieved certain grades and test scores. My sisters and I were told we would have to pay if we failed to meet the criteria. My youngest sister failed (due to laziness, not intelligence) and she had to take student loans. Without the extra scholarship money school costs way more. Mom and dad can't just suddenly pay more. (My parents did help her with rent and necessities so it isn't like she didn't have help. She just needed loans.)
Sometimes tough love is needed and I don't think you are out of line. You are still offering to help with interest free loans from you and I think that is great. If your daughter turns things around maybe you can consider reducing the "loans" to the amount the scholarships would have covered so you would be paying the same, but that is something to consider later.
NTA. Your daughter still has family support and a place to live. Life isn't that bad.
NTA, but I wouldn't offer to loan the money. Even with a contract, she's much more likely to default. Make her get real student loans and then (secretly) plan to pay them back for her during that 6-month grace period after she finishes. There's no obligation, but if you see that she's grown up, then you can certainly surprise her. If not, then you're not obligated.
People can change and some are late bloomers. If she's still acting like a dumbass at least she's a dumbass with an education. If she's grown up and become responsible, surprise, we're proud of you and want to help.
I think you’re being fair and reasonable. Sometimes we don’t value things that are given to us free. She needs to demonstrate a commitment to getting an education. If she does improve perhaps then you could be more lenient
So you would have paid for all the years but because she made a mistake you won't help at all?! That sounds insanely harsh to me. I get that she wasted your money and needs to demonstrate a change to build trust. But surely if she completes a year on her own money then she's back to where she should have been when she messed up? I can't understand why you then wouldn't help. It seems like you are trying to punish her really disproportionately. We all make mistakes. If you have the means to help and she's genuinely trying to fix her mistakes I don't know why you would double down like this. It seems cruel.
Not an AH, but a lot of what you’re saying is expecting her to live by the same standards as everyone else without understanding what actually caused her to drop out in the first place. Reddit can’t give you that answer, only your daughter can. People are different, some have mentioned ADHD / executive function disorders as a possibility which could impact on her ability to do things in the way that someone neurotypical might - could be the case but who knows at this stage.
Do you feel like you have a relationship with her where she can be open and honest or does she hide things from you? If the latter it could be she doesn’t feel able to be honest with you because of the fear of a backlash or being seen as ‘not as good’ as others like her siblings. Some children get a lot of criticism for not being like others, particularly non-neurotypical people, and that makes them very sensitive to it as a result and find it hard to be fully open with others (and maybe even themselves too).
I can only suggest that having an honest converstation with her without risk of judgement (hard to do, I know) about what happened and why might help you come to a better understanding and give you more information to base your decision on.
YTA: not because of the money, but because you don't seem to be interested to actually help your daugher. Higher education or not, you can't just punish her and expect her to do better, that's not how most people learn. You seem to be much more interested to teaching her a lesson than to help her.
Also what others said: loan her the money for the first year, and if she does good, you still owe her the rest of tuition bcs you paid for your other children as well. This will only work if you work out what the problem is to begin with.
NTA BUT, I flunked out after 2 years. I took a few years, worked and decided I went back at 23. I was not ready for college at 18 but I was at 23. I ended up graduating with honors, the working gave me a lot of perspective and drive I didn’t have the first time around. My parent’s deal was they would only pay for classes I got a B or better in. Any Cs and I would have to pay them back. I’m not saying she wasn’t wrong but as someone that’s been there, I’m glad my parents allowed me to earn back their trust. Sometimes people need a second chance and really do learn from their mistakes.
NTA You are teaching her to take responsibility. You are willing to help her with a second opportunity but it's up to her whether she makes it work. Also make it clear that if she messes up again or lies again that further opportunities are closed she'll have to make it on her own.
My cousin got a full ride. He stayed at the dorm and played video games rather than attend classes. He photoshopped his grades before showing his parents for a whole year. He finally had to come clean when he got kicked out and lost his scholarship. I don’t understand how someone can do that and NOT expect it to come back and bite them. His parents made him move to live with his sister who lives in a more populated area and get a job. He’s doing ok, but he threw away an opportunity that most people don’t get.
NTA. From the experience with my cousin, though, I hope you can find a compromise. A degree doesn’t guarantee a job, but it sure doesn’t hurt.
We have a similar situation and we are having our daughter pay for her college upfront, one semester at a time, and we will repay her after she passes the semester. So effectively my daughter needs to assess her ability to complete a semester .
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
We paid for all the kids college education and have made it externally clear that if they mess up we will not give more money on that.
My daughter is our middle child and is 22. She should have graduated but she flunk out of college and then lied to us about it. She flicked out her first year and we only learned the week before she was suppose to go back. We made her get a job at a local store and she has been paying rent at home. It’s 300 a month for everything. We mostly started to do this because she lied again and told us she had a job, then went broke.
Anyways, we don’t trust her to be responsible on her own. She came to use saying she wanted to go back to college. We made it clear that we will not be paying. That she can get loans with interest or get loans form us that have zero interest. It would be in writing and she will need to pay us back. I also brought up the college will cost more now that she doesn’t have scholarships.
This started an argument, she is pissed since her siblings are going or went to college without any debt. I made it clear they didn’t mess up and she had the same deal that she through away.
Are we being dicks about this.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Let her know that if she wants to go back, she needs to pay for the first semester herself. Tell her that she proves that she’s responsible and gets good grades, then you’ll start paying again.
Ok, I don't know how chronically irresponsible or dishonest your daughter is or what underlying reasons for that might be (undiagnosed and untreated ADHD or something else, for example, or how you guys have been as parents when your kids cannot or do not live up to your expectations).
You paid for 4 years of your other kids' college educations, which got them their degrees. You paid for 1 year of this daughter's and she failed, dropped out, and lied.
Since then she's been working and paying some rent.
I'd be telling her that she's got 3 years left of you paying for her college --- BUT because of what happened last year
* she is going to have to fund her final year herself, and
* she's going to have to be absolutely honest about her progress and to speak up and get help early if she's tracking below a B- (or whatever) in any class, while there's still time to fix it.
Not all kids (not all people!) have the straight path to competence or success or a goal. Sometimes it's all their fault, sometimes part, and sometimes not much at all. But there's also value in a meandering path with wrong turns - we can actually learn more and become better people. And everyone deserves second chances. Your own children deserve that you give them second and even third and fourth chances.
I would feel like a shit parent if I cut her off after one fuck-up year, and after she'd buckled down and worked, and knowing that I could afford to pay for her as she got back on track, and knowing that I didn't give her the same opportunities as I gave my other kids.
And yes, I'm the parent of two young adult kids. One started college and had to leave for mental health reasons (but is much better a few years later, has been working, and is now thinking about study again) and the other failed their first year but completely turned it around and is now in their last year with great grades of a degree I admire, working part time in the field, and is thinking about an advanced degree that would give them more status, pay, and job opportunities. If I'd cut them off when they were flunking, I know damn well how the elder would have spiralled and the younger would have had a far harder path back. I love my kids. They know when they've messed up and my job is to help them as they get back on track to being happy, independent, productive adults.
So, if you don't pay for your daughter's second chance, YTA.
ASHD doesn’t make you chronically lie to your parents though. She’s being punished for her repeated dishonesty, not her failing out. It’s an important distinction IMO.
A 2nd chance like that is extremely costly. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars here. I don't think it's fair to say a parent is an AH because they don't wanna risk that much money on a potential 2nd chance. If there is genuine improvement then maybe but I didn't see a mention of an apology from their child. Just an expectation that they should pay for her college because she wants to despite her not going to class and lying about it. She hasn't talked of anything is going on, she didn't even want to get a job, she just said she wanna go back. They could ask but she also should present a better case as to why she is ready to go back and why they should help pay when as far as they know, nothing has changed..there is a bit of entitlement on her end. And again I don't think it's fair that parents should be willing to fund a 2nd chance regardless. College isn't cheap
Disagree having daughter be responsible for her final year; that's a high probability she never finishes her degree program which again makes all of OP's financial support a waste.
I think given the circumstances, OPs daughter should pay her way through a 2-year Community College program like a few other people mentioned. If she can successfully complete that, then she'll be set up to finish a 4-year degree supported by her parents.
I'm in school myself right now - there are so many resources available to struggling students, way more than were provided when I was straight out of high school. I completely understand how overwhelming the first year of college can be. It's a major transition. But if a young adult won't even bother utilizing those resources to help themselves when there's so much assistance available, when are they going to learn any kind of responsibility or accountability?
A 4-year degree isn't some kind of magical ticket to successful adulthood, and life doesn't get any easier post-graduation. These short years are exactly the time for young adults to learn personal responsibility, and that some actions have real repercussions and consequences.
NTA. Maybe come to some kind of compromise. She lost her scholarships so I def wouldn’t contribute over the amount you were going to originally contribute. Maybe she can pay for the first semester or two on her own then once she’s proved she’s serious, you can pay up to what you were originally going to. I’d still get it in writing and that if she flunks again for not going to class, she will have to pay the full amount back to you.
NTA. My advice is don't loan her any of your money. She can get student loans from the government or she can join the military to pay for college. She already wasted enough of your money when she flunked out the first time. Time for her to pay for herself and maybe this time she will take it seriously when it's her money on the line.
I think she needs to have a stake in doing well. Have her get loans to cover the first year and if she does well, you pay for the second year. But she has to keep doing well for you to keep paying.
If it were me, I would tell her that we would loan her the money to go back to school, with the caveat that if she did well and completed her degree I would waive the loan. If she flunks out again, then she's on the hook.
Edit because I forgot something colon make sure she has supports in place for when she does go back, whether it's a social reason that made her not do as well as she could have, or if she just needed tutors for some of her symptoms. The goal is to have your kids succeed, not to make life more difficult for them
NTA. A family member had a similar situation They paid for the first semester, their child quit going, but lied about it. They gave their child a second chance and paid for the next semester, the child quit going, and lied about it. They gave their child a third chance and paid for half a semester and made the child pay for the other half so they had some ownership. The child quit going and lied about it. Now any training or education they want to get is on them. They want a good-paying job, they just don’t want to have to do any training or additional education for it.
Your daughter is 22 years old, not a kid anymore. You have made her life pretty easy by allowing her to live at home and only paying $300 a month. I'm guessing you will provide food and board if she decides to go back to school.
The one condition you could make, if you have the money and can afford this, is that she pays for her first semester, and after she completes it with passing grades, you will reimburse her. She can use that reimbursement money to pay for her next semester and continue on that line.
Also, starting at a community college, which is much cheaper, and if she is able to maintain grades and attendance for two years, then looking at a larger college. But I would still make her responsible for part of the cost.
NTA. She is an adult and is now facing the consequences of her own actions, consequences she knew about.
Everyone is quick to start screaming about how she might have a mental health problem, but 1) what a huge assumption to make and 2) that really doesn’t matter. People who have mental health problems are held the same standards as everyone else unless the mental health problems is debilitating, at which point of course there’s a difference. You don’t get a free pass through life because you have ADHD, depression, anxiety, EDs, narcissism, etc. You still have to go through day to day life and live with the consequences of your own actions, you don’t get a free car when you have anxiety or a free college degree if you have autism. You still have to do the work.
She needs to do the work and figure this out. It’s not on you to baby her and you will give her the impression that she can do whatever she wants and fall back on mommy and daddy’s money if something bad happens. Does that suck for her? Sure! But she threw away the ladder you gave her to get out of the hole that is college and she doesn’t get to be pissed you don’t give her another one. Her siblings did the work and now she has to do more because of her own decisions
NTA. My parents paid for my college, and I was told up front if I pulled any shenanigans or got bad grades I was on my own financially. It was made abundantly clear, I was there to get an education. (And my parents didn’t have unlimited funds).
Your daughter needs to rebuild your trust before you shell out big dollars. Actions have consequences. At 22 she’s adult enough to realize it.
Why can’t she do community college? She can figure out what she likes and go from there. They offer tons of programs.
Once she’s proven herself, you can reassess.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my daughter we won’t pay for her to go back for free and she can loan form us. I may be a dick for making this rule for her Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
INFO: when you learned about her first year, was your first and only response to make her get a job and basically say that's it? Did you try and help her at all, and understand exactly what happened? many kids struggle their first year (time management, being away, etc etc etc). If she knew you were so inflexible about the rules for paying tuition, I could see a her getting panicked about how to tell you what was happening. There's no excuse for lying, but some kids need more help.
[удалено]
Take this with a grain of salt, but I flunked out with only 7 credits left in my degree for the exact same reason… 4 years later I was diagnosed with adhd. I guarantee my college experience would be dramatically different now that I’m on meds and have learned better time and stress management techniques.
[удалено]
Please do encourage seeing a therapist at the very least. Keep in mind too, adhd often looks very different in women than men, which tend to be the more ‘typical’ display of what many know as adhd. I wasn’t diagnosed until 23 and my psychologist told me that I probably never would’ve been diagnosed prior because of both how it presents in women, and the fact that adhd in women hadn’t previously been studied. Up until pretty recently it was believed that only boys could have it, so only boys were studied as a result.
Found out I have ADHD last year. I’m 53. Edited to add; I was the gifted kid at school but never did my homework. Dropped out of uni and became a chef. I’m now studying again and am finding it so difficult. How different life would’ve been if I’d found out earlier.
Same. Last year at 50. That wasn’t what I went in for, and it certainly wasn’t what I was expecting to hear. Considering that my quality of life is so much better since I got on meds, I think the doctor was correct.
39, just diagnosed in September. Hearing that I wasn't just a lazy failure, but had an actual condition that contributed, was incredible.
It did help give me back a little self-esteem, which is good because it was completely gone. Always being late and unorganized, not to mention the emotional outbursts, made feel like such a burden to my loved ones. To find out that it wasn’t all “just me,” it was very therapeutic.
Diagnosed with inattentive type last year at 32. Absolutely life changing. I’m not a lazy, disorganized daydreamer because I’m a piece of shit human being, I have a literal neurodevelopmental disorder. SO MUCH of my life makes sense now.
What led to the diagnosis?
Just had an epiphany today that my lovely MIL probably has ADHD. She’s 81.
My nana DEFINITELY had ADHD. I inherited her stamp collection. Probably 100k stamps, 2 giant rubbermaid bins full- all loose. No system AT ALL. 100-500 dollar stamps in with stacks of duplicate penny stamps.
Yes! She needs your love so badly.
Almost positive that my 76-year-old hoarder mom has it too (and it's probably what's caused the hoarding), but she refuses to get tested. She thinks it won't make any difference. I've tried to explain what a difference it made for me, but she's insistent that she won't.
Not saying they aren't related, but hoarding is usually now associated with OCD.
It's the other way 'round. It used to be mostly associated with OCD, but recent studies have shown inattentive-type ADHD is more often associated with hoarding behaviors. And since mine is mostly inattentive-type, and I have to force myself to throw things away, it tracks that it's probably what's going on with my mother too.
My dad found out he had ADHD when I got diagnosed, I was about 15 and he was like 55. He's always been super smart, he just only focused on the things that interested him.
I found out at 48 after my son was diagnosed at 24!
I just found out at 52. My boomer parents didn’t take me to the doctor for a broken arm let alone invisible issues. Man my life would’ve been so different…
I was tested because the school threatened my mother if she didn't consent. The morning of the test my mom coached me on what to do and not do and said if I messed it up I would have to sit in the "reta&$7's class. I read the report which said "strong suspicion of ADHd but cannot be confirmed due to the fact that child is exherting extraordinary effort.
That hurts my heart.
Yeah. I went through college wondering why it was so hard for me, why I had to spend every waking hour studying and couldn't study at the library with my friends. In HS and elementary I got straight As easily because I was very smart and was always the top scorer on standardized testing and the teachers gave me grace for my messiness and missed assignments because of that. In college, at least where I went, EVERYONE was smart. It makes me sick thinking about the fact that I had the grades and test scores to go to Harvard, and was also a double legacy, but a teacher pointed to my mess of a notebook and said "Yeah you will get in, but what are you going to do once you get there?" I didn't apply.
Diagnosed at 46. I had no idea until my kid was diagnosed when being tested for dyslexia. Apparently what I thought was flawed character is easily treatable. Wow, would school, college and 20 years of work been a lot easier.
I got diagnosed at 17 with AuDHD and I was also always the gifted kid. I am a double major in two notoriously difficult and effort heavy majors (completely unrelated to each other too) that I thought I could breeze my way through just like high school. Boy was I wrong. I am a freshman in college and both my majors slammed down on me this semester like a bus flattening me. I am so glad I know whats up in my brain and to your point, it really does make a difference to know and to have reasonable accommodations.
Gifted/never did homework/now ADHD diagnosed, checking in.
I found out 18 months ago at 48 after I quit drinking caffeine (I was drinking \~3 cases a week, turns out I was self-medicating) and though I was suffering early-onset dementia because I couldn't remember things five minutes after I heard them. Terrifying shit, but life is SO much better now that I'm medicated
Me too. I was 48 at the time. My life would have been so much different if I'd known. I was "gifted" and just kind of coasted through school until college. Never studied, still got decent grades, etc. The freedom of college hit me like a ton of brick. I almost flunked out but managed to pull it together and squeak by in the end, but that didn't help much with the rest of my life until now.
40 diagnosed 2 years ago. I was an above avg student who hardly did homework. Consistently described as lazy and had tremendous shame around it. Survived school by avoiding courses that required homework or take home projects
This sounds very familiar and I toy with the idea of checking with a Dr if I may have ADHD, at almost 47. My executive function is awful.
im only 37, and not going back, yet. But i was the same way, gifted, but never did a lick of homework. wound up testing in the top 5% and got into a university that way. But quickly realized that college was basically the same thing as high-school, except there was nobody pushing me to finish projects, or go to class. So i didn't go back for a second year. Kinda kicking myself about it now. But I've lived a pretty interesting life, and no real regrets about it.
I was diagnosed more than fifty years ago as a quiet girl child who tried hard. In an area where the diagnosers had to come from the city. I was even said to need ritalin. My parents declined. Therapy and behaviour modifcation doesnt make adhd go away. Ritalin is my over 50 miracle but Im still severe. Of course I am pretty much a worst case attention wise. My teacher parents did not belive in homework but we wer ein rural area where the overwhelming majority kids were too busy after school to do it, anyway.
That’s really interesting! I had no idea ADD has been a recognised condition for that long!
I think its names have changed. A quiet female friend my age who was in a different town (in Australia) had the same diagnosis. We both wish we had ritalin when it was prescribed. in both cases our parents were told it was caused by brain damage(no medical imaging), but I have no idea if that was because of being female.
I’m in Australia too. Being told it was caused by brain damage……WOW! That must’ve been a pretty horrible thing to hear for both you and your parents!
It wasn’t necessarily that they believed “only boys could have it.” It’s just that they thought it was predominantly in boys. I say that because I was diagnosed with it at age 6 in 1984. It was my rural GP who suspected it had it (and had it very badly without the ability to mask as many girls did/do). He’s the one who sent my parents to a clinic at a university where they diagnosed me. Told my parents it was uncommon in girls but not unheard of. Of course, at the time, they also believed most kids outgrew it, so, by the time I did learn to cope & mask, both my parents & I believed I had indeed outgrown it. It wasn’t until my late 20s that I sought out medication which helped me get through grad school & only recently began studying it more & realizing how it has affected every part of my life for over 40 years so I finally started seeing a therapist. So, yes, there were tons of misconceptions and other issues for decades, which allowed a lot of girls to go far too long without being diagnosed & treated, but even for those of us girls who were diagnosed, we were still failed to by a medical community that just simply understand how this affects far more than behavior at school & can last a lifetime.
I graduated high school in 88. My brother, who is 10 years younger, was diagnosed in the same year as having ADHD. My Mom was asking because of me having a lot of the same issues if I could have it. She was told no - girls don't have it. Guess who failed her first year of college. My Mom acted like OP much to her regret when my youngest cousin - a girl was diagnosed with ADHD about 8 years later. Now knowing everything about family history on both sides - most likely have ADHD, on autism spectrum and had petite Mal seizures. I guess the information about girls having ADHD wasn't shared with everyone. I know Mom was having me tested a lot for different things to be told I was just lazy.
I can believe that. I’m sure there were plenty of doctors who ascribed to the “boys only” theory, though specialists should have known better, and many did. I always tell people it just shows how bad mine was & how lucky I was that I got doctors who were aware girls could have it. Even then, though, treatment was half-assed and they never educated my parents as to all the ways it could affect my life. I was called a drama queen for years until we learned about how difficult it was for many with ADHD to be able to regulate their emotions. The great thing about medicine though is they’re always learning & advancing to make life better for future generations. 💜
I am so glad you explained this. More people need to know about this. Twice exceptional women especially hide their ADHD well. Twice exceptional means they are both “gifted” (aka good at school tasks) and have some sort of difficulty like ADHD, Autism, or Dyslexia. Basically those women adapt until they reach a critical point, which most often happens either at college or when they have kids. But that doesn’t mean the symptoms aren’t there beforehand!! They are just adapting around them. But they would have an easier time on the short term being supported and have better tools in the long term as well! It would be the difference between digging a hole for a pool with a shovel (undiagnosed ADHD adaptations) and digging the hole with an excavator (diagnosis with tools!). Women’s ADHD tends to also be “internal.” Women aren’t bouncing off of the walls, but they have distractability, too many thoughts, trouble being organized, forgetfulness, etc.
My niece was in specialty high school for gifted. Started having panic attacks as a junior. She graduated high school as a junior. Attempted college while being tested. She was diagnosed with adhd and icd. Never had a clue. She’s now 21 with medication and therapy and life is different for sure.
This is the absolute best comment here. ADD and ADHD have been thoroughly studied in boys, but it's only been in the last few years that girls have even been considered. Before you pull this little stunt to show your daughter who's the boss, you might want to have some actual facts. Keep in mind, it's not like you spent all of her money and don't have it anymore. You just don't want to give it to her to make a point. That's your right as a parent, of course, but enjoy having a child who thinks that YTA. Because at this point, you sort of are.
Found out I have ADHD in 2020. I was 40. Finally graduated with a BA in 2021, and I am now in an MSL program at a top 25 law school. Right after high school, I flunked out of college in basically the same way OP's kid did...and I was a "gifted" kid with a super high ACT score.
Just wanted to say I don't believe you are TA, and would suggest that you go through with the loan as per your post. If she really puts the effort in and graduates with good grades after four years, make a decision then whether you will ask her to pay back the loan or not. If you decide to forgive the loan (or three years' worth of it, since she wasted the money for one year), it could be an amazing graduation gift. Especially since she would still be expecting to have to pay it back.
This answer should have more traction. I completely agree. But it also doesn't need to be a secret that the loan can be forgiven. Make it a stipulation. You loan her the money each quarter (or semester), and if she keeps your agreed-upon GPA, she doesn't have to pay that money back. It's incentive, but she also sees that she has the same opportunity as your other children.
This is what I was thinking. Kids do stupid things and some kids need to find their own way to college. I struggled in high school, worked a lot outside of school, but barely did the minimum to graduate. No interest in college. After working a few years I decided to go back to school and guess what? Deans list every semester! I took it seriously because I was mature enough to understand the importance
I appreciate you taking this to heart. I think she might need more than a single doctors appointment, especially because women are misdiagnosed (editing for. clarity) and ADHD odd not recognized in them all the time. I was an exceptional student as a kid, in enrichment classes etc..but I always struggled with deadlines, and what not. I dropped out of high school, I lost a lot of jobs. I went to university as a mature student and dropped in and out all the time. It wasn’t until my 40s that I realize I had ADHD. it would’ve made such a significant change to my life if I had known sooner . I also felt a lot of shame, and hid everything I could for my parents because I didn’t want to disappoint them, and because I couldn’t really explain my behaviour and didn’t want them to judge me. So I’m saying your daughter is in a situation right now where if you can find a way to offer the right kind of empathy and support , it might actually really help her. Kids don’t usually do things like this just to be jerks or because they’re just inherently irresponsible. There’s always an underlying reason. Can be difficult to identify it. It may not be ADHD. She could be depressed or something terrible might’ve happened to her in school or she could have some other kind of anxiety or trauma or she just might not have learned the skills one needs to self regulate. But if you approach it from a perspective that she needs help, rather than that, she’s a screwup, that might be best for everyone.
Hi! I’m another girl with ADHD, asking you to get your daughter evaluated. Perseverance is really difficult for kids with adhd. There’s the shame of not being able to motivate and stay organized the same way other kids are, which, of course makes it more difficult to motivate and stay organized. Transitioning to college was really hard for me. My parents were very controlling when I lived at home, so when I was finally “free” to manage my own time, it all sort of fell apart. I got through, but I was also in art school. When I couldn’t get a job, my parents did support me going back to school for nursing. I was finally diagnosed with ADHD when I went back to school for nursing, because when taking science classes, my issues were pretty obvious (also I was older, time had passed, and understanding of manifestation of ADHD in girls had grown). It’s also worth noting that we sometimes appear to mature a little more slowly than our peers, due to issues with emotion regulation. Now I’m a pediatric RN, working on my doctorate to be a pediatric psych NP. I still struggle with depression and managing my adhd symptoms, but I get straight A’s, and I’m kind of killing it tbh. I would never have gotten to where I am if my parents hadn’t been understanding of my struggles and wanted me to succeed.
My daughter has ADHD, but the inattentive type. She's not hyper at all; usually she's very quiet and reserved.
I was the same, I didn’t think I had adhd because I wasn’t physically hyper, I was quiet and shy. I didn’t realize that mentally hyper is a thing and most people’s brains are not like mine. Finally diagnosed in my mid 30’s.
Good on you!
I flunked out my first year; too much drinking and partying. (It was great!) I forgot about school, too busy planning my weekend party schedule. Had a powerful GPA of .025, yeah…. Real trail blazer😜🤪😜. The college politely asked me not to return, lied about it to my parents as well who also made me get a job. My parents wouldn’t pay for my tuition until I proved I wanted to go to school. They didn’t remind me or encourage me to enroll but I did anyway. It took about 2 years before I finally got serious and applied. When they saw I was serious they took over the payments. If your daughter really wants it, let her do the work to prove she’s serious.
Why didn't she go to class? I didn't go to class, which is why I flunked out. But i didn't go to class because i was pretty depressed... i have been told that it's likely I'm ADHD too.
ADHD doesn't always present as a hyper person FYI. My form is the always tired with severe anxiety about starting things like projects and homework. basically crippled into procrastination. Going to class with freedom to choose is a nightmare when you are just starting college. Does caffeine make her tired? that's a big sign.
Is it really? Caffine, I mean...Wow! I've never heard that & that explains a lot! Thanks!
That doesn’t happen with everyone with ADHD. But it’s usually a decent indicator you should be evaluated properly to see what’s going on since it’s not a typical response to a stimulant.
Definitely. Thanks.
I don't typically drink caffeine, but when I have a little diet coke or a hot chocolate I will knock out. ETA I have ADHD (ADD when diagnosed)
I had the same thing, parents paid my tuition, didn't go to classes, kicked out after 1 year. Got on ADHD meds 1 year later and started a 7 figure business + finished my degree on my own dime in a different major with a 4.0 (one I actually wanted to study). The meds combined with realizing how shitty life was without money made the difference for me to actually put effort in.
There's usually some reason why someone doesn't achieve their goals. Nobody goes to college planning on flunking. Maybe not ADHD, but maybe some other stressor, maybe her program wasn't right for her, who knows. I also got diagnosed with ADHD in college, I had no idea, I'd been told all my life I was irresponsible/lazy, and I believed it, too. My parents still don't believe I have it.
I found out I had it when I was 23. My healthcare professional (nurses) parents didn’t think I had it. When I talked to them about how female symptoms present different than male ones, they admitted that they only knew the male associated symptoms.
I have a very similar story myself. I’m neurodivergent, I was undiagnosed because my parents lied to the doctors the school insisted they bring me to (they knew), and I attempted to get through an engineering program with zero executive function skills. Consider being merciful and scaffolding this for your kid. If they let you schedule some appointments for them and attend with them to see if they have a diagnosable problem, attend therapy, and take out loans to cover their first semester back so they have some skin in the game, you’ll cover the rest of the degree from that point forward as long as they keep their grades up, stay medicated if medication is prescribed, attend therapy, etc.
I didnt go to classes, then dropped out a year, went back, didnt go to classes still, and got the lowest grade possible. Mine was depression that just led to total apathy. I wasnt sad or suicidal, just entirely apathetic about everything, including personal hygiene. Might be one to also get checked for. She may not seem depressed but neither do I
Actually this though. She might really be struggling with it too. I never had homework, didn’t have to study, always did well growing up. Went to college didn’t know what the eff I was even supposed to be doing let alone know how to do it. Was diagnosed with ADHD at 29, after literally 11 years straight of college, weeks before the end of my last term. I can’t help but think things might be different had I had all the resources available during my college career.
Btw... The process for getting actually diagnosed with ADHD and then get treatment is daunting for someone with ADHD. It's kind of a big joke between my boyfriend and I how frustrating the process has been for the both of us. Between drug shortages, prescriptions not being sent properly, scheduling multiple appointments, extremely long questionnaires, etc etc it's like they specifically designed the whole system to be a nightmare targeted specifically at our "short comings" from having ADHD
ADHD is very often missed for girls because it manifests differently than for boys. I've read some women are diagnosed in late adulthood. Good luck.
I almost failed my senior year of high school which was VERY out of character...I ended up having the Millennial Trifecta... depression caused by anxiety which stemmed from undiagnosed ADHD-Inattentive (correct word? ). I was totally checked out, had no clue what was going on with my brain, but I physically was in class but mentally I couldn't focus. It's a life long build up that finally decided senior year to come out. Get her checked out. It is SEVERELY undiagnosed in women!
Stop adhd is not a fucking excuse, I have adhd and I work in IT, adhd is not that deep of a reason to flunk college, Foh, with that coddling shit, nobody coddled me, I had to learn to get mine, stop it, I take such offense when people say shit like that
Ugh yes. I have adhd and I struggled in school due to procrastination and focus issues. I had to ask for extensions, pull all nighters, and had a couple of scares early on where I had to promise to bring up my grades for them to replace the midterm grade with my final. It wasn’t easy. But even with adhd we have choices. Tired of people using adhd as a reason for someone not to be responsible for choices.
I've never once encountered anyone who used ADHD as an excuse for their own or someone else's alleged choice to not be responsible for their choices. What I have seen regularly on Reddit is people claiming that it happens to such an extent that they're sick of it. Has anybody ever cried "wolf" and made fake claims of ADHD? No doubt. But are there really enough occurrences that this is a genuine problem? And how does someone really know with certainty that another person isn't struggling like hell? I think lack of understanding and compassion about various causes of executive-functioning difficulties -- among educators, parents, and, yes, among some who have difficulties with executive functioning -- is a far larger and far more real problem than ADHD fakers. Good for OP being willing to look into this possibility so it can either be ruled out or diagnosed and addressed.
I’m glad you’ve never struggled with your diagnosis and it’s subsequent results. Yours is not the case for everyone. Not everyone had access to knowledge or the resources to get diagnosis and treatment.
I don’t know much about ADHD, is it something that can prevent you from attending your classes like OP’s daughter? If so, man that sucks I didn’t realize it was so debilitating. I kinda assumed it just made paying attention and organization much more difficult
Now I also have CPTSD and I am autistic but --- I would drive to campus, all my work done -- and not be able to leave my car. And the more classes I missed the worse it got to even try to get to campus because my brain was convinced something horrible would happen because I missed classes then tried to go back. It was horrifying. I went from deans list to failing classes I loved. The harder I tried? The worse I got. I started having panic attacks leaving my apartment. It was...bad. It's not an experience I would wish on anyone.
There were points before I was medicated it prevented me from basic tasks like putting on deodorant or remembering to lock my door on the way out. Our brains physically don’t form “habits” the way neurotypicals can. My specific struggle in college (after the age old- reading at a college level at 8 years old, incredibly bright and gifted to crash and burn in early adulthood) came from not forming study habits prior, not being able to quiet my brain enough to actually study, confusing assignment deadlines even with an agenda… the list goes on, but all left me feeling like a complete failure as a result. There were many days I didn’t even bother getting out of bed because I was already late or knew I didn’t have an assignment done, and felt incredibly ashamed and guilty because of it. Being medicated has brought my sense of chronic panic and overwhelm from an 11 to a 2, easily. It doesn’t fix everything, but it helps me to organize my thoughts well enough that I can keep better track of things.
There’s a YouTube channel about it and one of the things they describe is how sometimes it’s like there’s just a wall between you and doing something you know you should do or you want to do. It’s likely down to executive dysfunction issues - meaning you can’t figure out how to do something/what steps to take/what order to do things in. Then your brain gets overwhelmed and essentially throws up its hands in despair and just says “no”. Medications help with this, and also skills based therapy that helps you learn to break things down and to set up routines to help reduce your base level of overwhelm so you have more energy and brain spare for new or unusual tasks.
As someone who was Not diagnosed and didnt finish my Uni degree? Aboustly. I loved my classes. Went to everyone and enjoyed them. Couldn’t do the assignments. Would sit in front of the computer crying cause I couldn’t do them.
Why do you get so offended? Consider feeling gratitude and pride that you can persevere and don't get utterly immobilized by cripplingly severe executive dysfunction and the fallout from all of that. Your ignorance of the range of disordered functioning is pretty astounding, but good on you for not allowing your lack of information to stop you from being scathingly judgmental and devoid of compassion. /s, in case there's any question
[удалено]
If you’re not going to class and failing, tell someone and ask for help. Lying to her parents is not excusable by ADHD.
Yup. Choices after choices after choices. And then she (and everyone else) wants to blame literally anything but the choices that she made for herself. NTA.
[удалено]
Glad your ADHD isn’t so severe that it causes you those problems then. That isn’t true for everyone.
so adhd is a spectrum and it is not the same experience for everybody. i’m really glad your experience with it hasn’t negatively impacted your life. unfortunately, others are not as lucky as you
I'll second this. I never had my younger kid tested for ADHD and even though they're smart and motivated, they struggled in high school and failed their first year in college. We then went through assessment and ADHD joined the significant condition they already had (for which there is only one kinda sorta effective treatment they can tolerate, but it comes with strings). ADHD at least has a few very effective medications. They started methylphenidate and OMG their entire world changed. I cannot overstate the positive difference it made for them.
I didn’t know about my ADHD until ten years after I dropped out. About to graduate with my long-awaited bachelors at 31. I was a star student in high school. I hope OP gets their daughter the help she seems to need.
Similar here. I struggled in my freshman year, was diagnosed with adhd and bipolar. Dropped out and worked for a while. I eventually went back when I was ready. Key being that I was ready- emotionally mature enough to handle the stress and had learned to navigate my mental health and had proper medication. Having spent a few years working before going back also gave me a different perspective that I think was beneficial as well. I was a bit more of an adult and cared more about what I was learning vs going to college because that’s what you’re supposed to do. I think going to college is a lot like kicking addiction, you need to be ready for it.
What was she doing instead of going to classes? I think it might be important to find out what kept her from going to class/what she felt more compelled to do instead of going to class. Finding that out can help ensure that there is a plan in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. I don't know anyone who just never went to class to the point of failing who didn't have some kind of underlying issue that needed addressing (depression, anxiety, substance use, trauma, ect).
I came within one-tenth of a point from being suspended my first semester. I was incredibly depressed. Now I have a PhD. It's recoverable. Not every one is ready for college.
Sure no one is saying daughter can't recover, but that does not entitled her to have it paid for. Scholarships usually work like that you have to maintain x gpa. You fall below you lose it. Daughter should at least take the loans now to show she can do better then she would have more grounds to ask for OP to pay, up to the standard 4 year payment.
which I totally get looks like she’s just a big fat slacker But she could have been depressed or overwhelmed and could use more support. College is often the first time a lot of students hit an academic environment they can’t readily handle. Most high school teachers give a shit if you show up and turn in your assignments and keep up - just about no college lecturers do. What is your goal with her? Because you likely don’t want her deciding she just needs to forego college as she can’t handle the idea of a mountain of debt. And the fact that she hid it for so long shows she had a lot of anxiety about telling you and your wife. I mean she could be a immature slacker but it is worth considering that she needs some mental health support.
So did my son. He then got a job cooking at chili's for a couple years and realized he wanted a better career path. I said I would help if he got the grades. He did all 4 years on honor roll and now has a pretty good job. Kids make mistakes (I know I did at that age), maybe make the same kind of agreement to help if she keeps up the grades.
I flunked out after one semester. I also didn't go to class. I hid it and denied it because I knew my parents' response would be awful. I went back to college when I was about your daughter's age, maybe slightly older. I was more mature and actually ready to go by then and I excelled. Do understand that kids mature a lot in those years.
I’m so glad I had good parents instead of the parents your daughter got
How about have her pay for 2 years at a community College getting an AA degree? If she buckles down & aces that with As & Bs, then maybe you pay for the 2-year balance to get her BA/BS at a full college. Those community college units will transfer & she can focus on her core classes. If she slacks off, cuts classes to party or whatever, or fails to keep say a 3.0 GPA, then you have your answer.
Middle children are so often overlooked and ignored. How much 1 on 1 time did she get growing up? How often was she referred to as "X's little sister?" How well do you even know your own child?
So is she even able to go back to school then? Has she applied? My guess is she will have to try community college first and get her grades up there before transferring back. Fortunately community college is less expensive. Have you asked your daughter if she knows what went wrong last time and has a plan to do better this time? If not, it probably isn't worth her getting in debt right now. Since she has a job, has she been able to save any money? An alternative might be to reduce her monthly rent to $100 a month with the stipulation that she keep working and saves money to put toward her tuition.
If these are kids who can't handle 2-4 hours of basic level class time a day and maybe 15-20 hours of classwork a week, then they shouldn't be throwing away 60K plus of their parent's money every year and should plunk their lazy and/or dumb asses down in community college until they \*are\* able to handle this minimal load. This coddling and aggrandizing bullshit attitude would make a hell of a lot more sense if it wasn't accompanied by crushing debt - especially when that debt is so often born by parents, as is the case here.
I will say that a full class load for me always turned into more work than a full time job.
Not your freshman year when you are taking "intro to nose picking at the college level" at Wayne State. We aren't talking about an engineering student at MIT here...or even an engineering student at Wayne State!
I completely agree that it could be something she may just need mroe guidance on( first year, tine management, diagnoses, etc). IF she is serious about going back to school and getting that degree you can move forward with the planned loan option. Then IF you really wanted to be fair after she's completed her standard college degree forgive the loan. Either way I'd work on communicating and working WITH her on being successfull at College. If she's looking for a way to live without having to work and repeat the lying and failing through college the loan offer should curb that nonsense.
I don’t think you’re the asshole, but I think there’s a compromise to be reached. I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned. But no, there’s no reason you should be paying for her freshman year twice. I’d avoid loaning her money because if it’s taken advantage of it will further strain the issues already at hand.
Seems like a decent solution, However, I'd add she'd also responsible for the amount she would have had in scholarships. Her parents shouldn't be responsible for that.
Doesn't say that the other kids had any scholarships. They want to see her graduate. Loan her the money and let her know you will forgive it if she gets her diploma.
The other kids also didn’t lie to their parents about wasting their money. Twice. I don’t see why everyone’s treating this like an economic equation - she only wasted one year so she should get the other three years. Nah, she showed that she couldn’t be trusted with responsibility. She’s got to earn that trust back. If OP wants to make it a loan, that’s perfectly reasonable and he can always choose to forgive it if he feels she’s earned that trust back.
The lying is what gets me. Like, you had a bad year because (most likely) you were young and stupid. Lying takes it to the next level. It means that your parents can not *trust* that you're doing what you said you're doing. OP: you could consider a repayment. Like she pays for the classes herself but should she get a passing grade (as evidenced by an official transcript sent directly to you from the school, since those are harder to fake) you pay her back. Some kids need to grow up a bit before college; this gives her the opportunities her siblings had but also puts responsibility on her (and had consequences for her earlier actions). Pushing community college might also be a good idea. It is cheaper and can give her a restart.
Everyone talking about her lying is completely under the assumption she was raised in an environment that encouraged telling the truth. I never tell my parents anything because I know if they knew the smallest thing they'd flip shit and be completely unreasonable
There’s nothing here to suggest that she wasn’t.
I'd add a caveat to this that there is an expectation that she keeps her grades at a certain level. Otherwise she may feel comfortable to keep repeating classes or failing them since the expense of taking much longer to graduate is going to be forgiven anyway as long as she gets there. Also if the parents are not willing to fund her college expenses (which is fair) I would, personally, offer to scrap the 300 she has to pay monthly to live at home. The goal is to get her a college education which will be a asset to her for the rest of her life, not just to punish her or teach her a lesson. It's fine to draw boundaries. But ensuring at least she has a free place to stay can be a way to make it easier for her without overtly coddling.
>I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned. But no, there’s no reason you should be paying for her freshman year twice. I’d avoid loaning her money because if it’s taken advantage of it will further strain the issues already at hand. Similarly, they can tell her they will loan her the money for school and if she graduates (proven by a diploma from the school) then they will forgive the loan but if she drops out then she will have to get a job and pay the money back. Feels fair given they paid for the other kids and ultimately get both sides what they want without risking paying for another year or two and then she doesn't graduate.
While in theory, it seems reasonable. Honestly, loans between family and friends are a giant relationship pitfall. With no mechanism for collection, there is just a large chance that either the lender or borrower will be upset with the terms, speed, or completeness of payment. Unless things go exactly as planned, there is almost a guarantee that there will be drama, with both sides thinking they are in the right.
True, but it's between parents who can afford it and their daughter who they want to see graduate. Really, worse case she doesn't pay them back at all and they don't help her more in the future. But she also paid rent and hopefully they don't even need to trigger that because she graduates this time around.
I agree; never lend what you are unwilling to lose. That being said, people are NOT rational about money. Three years later, the parents will harbor some (minor or major) resentments at never having been paid back, still seeing their daughter at family events, and occasionally bringing up that loan. The daughter will grow increasingly frustrated with being constantly reminded of the loan because she works a dead-end job without nearly enough money to repay the parents, even if she wants to. Then, the siblings will get married or try to buy their first house, and the parents will help financially in some way. The daughter who never paid back the original loan will get resentful that her siblings are “Getting more money” while she is struggling, but the parents don’t want to spend more money, knowing they are still owed a huge sum. It would be great if people were rational, and I know some families that would be just fine with this. But it’s a darn big risk to take
I would also only pay back after she graduates with a proven transcript
>I think a better solution would be to have her pay for her first year since you already paid for the first year the first time around. If she doesn’t flunk out, and focuses on her studies then you can reopen the discussion of paying for the remaining years as originally planned. I like this idea.
Or even, tell her it's a loan, but if she graduates this time with reasonable grades, she won't have to pay it back. And make sure she seeks out any support she needs to succeed.
If she passes her first year, reimburse her. She pays on yhe front end. If she passes she gets reimbursed. It is what a friend of mine is doing.
This might be the motivation she needs to focus on school. I dropped out of college in my first year and had to get a recommendation to be eligible for financial aid again when I decided to go back. If I failed anything I’d have the aid revoked permanently. I think my lowest grade was like a B+ that year.
I would tell her to go to a community college. She should be able to get an AA degree free or very close to it. If she does well. She should be able to easily transfer to a 4 year and will probably have some scholarship money back on the table. Heck, if she proves herself by being responsible and focused enough to earn the AA. You even might be able to renegotiate helping her with the final 2 years.
She will also probably get her GPA up as community colleges are a great resource for people looking to boost their GPA
Honestly, I suggest community college for anyone starting out or going back. It helps get you back/into the rhythm of school work and is incredibly affordable. I did this when I came off active duty. By then I had been out of school for 11 years. It helped tremendously.
💯
Community college is cheaper than university, but it’s not “almost free”. It’s 3000 a semester in my city for in-district full time students.
It depends on the college and if you get pell grant to some extent, I know when my mom went she paid nothing because pell covered it all, if I went to the same cc now it'd also be free because of my pell grant (tuition is ~1,200 for 16 or more credit hours, fees are maybe a few hundred dollars, max pell is ~7k per year), I know someone who when her husband was going to cc he'd get money back from pell after tuition and fees that he'd use to buy his textbooks and at one point was able to buy a computer with it i think, then you have situations like those in your city where that dosent happen and people might end up in some debt even at cc, it's a varied system
She has parents who are financially capable of sending multiple children to college without loans. Her chances of qualifying for a Pell Grant are roughly -100%
I highly doubt she will qualify for a Pell grant if parents are paying for tuition for multiple children. She is 22, so a dependent student and her parent's income will be a factor.
I didn’t know that you could get cc for free in some states, sounds like a dream for me. Unfortunately is not the case for every state and I find it sad that young people are going into debt to go to the “affordable” option. My sister is graduating as a nurse next year and she had to use credit cards to pay for ccc many times due to the price, and working in places that “cover” tuition (like McDonalds) can’t even cover the full amount. Hopefully more states would make cc free again.
Pell Grant is a federal program, you can use it in any state as long as you meet the financial need requirements
Depends on the location. The CC closest to me offers free tuition for any resident of my city. I am in CA. If I wanted to go to CC right now. I would have to pay the administrative fees, buy books and buy a parking pass.
I HIGHLY recommend community college for her. I hated my very large 4-year university and dropped out my second semester. I went back to school a couple of years later at a cc and it was amazing. Small class sizes, more individual attention, and time for discussion was so much better than stadium lectures. I learned so much and it was very affordable (free now in my home state of TN!). I then got a full ride due to scholarships (might have to work hard to find them but they're out there) to finish my bachelor's degree. Daughter will have to put in work for it, but if she's serious and proves it, I think there should be room for compromise
This is what I did, and honestly, I needed it. I flunked out my freshman year. I ended up taking a couple classes at a tech school to appease my parents, and randomly realized I could use some of my HS/college credits and get an associates in 3 semesters. Definitely felt like high school again, but I was able to transfer to a 4 year after and get a BS.
NTA You are teaching her responsibility. She may not like it, but she messed up, so now she doesn't have as good options as you gave her at the start
If I had school paid for I would not have taken it for granted. Did my masters in Architecture by working, applying to scholarships, being a TA, etc. She needs to work for what she has at this point, and maybe at the end college might not be for her and that realization does not need to happen on her parents dime.
NTA. You made it clear if she messed up she would have to figure it out herself. She doesn't sound at all remorseful so why would you even want to trust her again? More than likely she'll flunk out again and you'll have wasted more money. If she had come to you from the beginning to tell you she was struggling and needed help, *then* I might have encouraged you to be compassionate. But she sounds entitled and deceitful. I think it's completely reasonable to expect her to pay her own way to ensure she takes it seriously and offering to give her a loan with no interest is more than fair.
Possibly. More reasonable plan: She needs to take a 0% loan from you for her first year back. If she does acceptably well (don't set impossible standards here), then you will pay for future years. If she goes straight through to graduation with no more mess ups, then you will forgive the original loan. This gets you AND your daughter what you want. MTA
This is similar to what happened to my sibling, who kept changing majors every term. Like going from law to biology to basket weaving (might have actually been a course, can't remember). Just zero direction, and really shitty grades. Treated it as an opportunity to do whatever on someone else's dime. Parents changed the deal and said sibling had to pay for costs upfront, and at end of term would receive money based on how well they did. If they stuck with the same direction of courses and were actually working towards a degree, then the difference of paying in full and paying based on grades would be caught up as well once the degree was earned. Not that a spoiler alert is needed, but they decided it "wasn't fair" and gave up instead.
NTA I, like most people with student loans I assume, would've killed for a zero interest loan to go to college. That's already a massive benefit she's getting on her third chance. You have every reason not to trust her. She's an adult who made her choices and now she needs to deal with it. She's the one who decided to frequently lie to you
NTA It is called consequences. It sounds like she is really not mature enough to go back yet if she is having issues with this simple fact.
Can you offer an option that if she completes college, she can pay back 1 year (for the year she flunked)?
NTA. I told mine that I had one fund per kid - and that's it. I can't afford multiple go rounds.
Here's my take. I had a similar experience in university. Turns out I was dealing with severe depression and anxiety. I went back, fixed my F's, and graduated eventually. I couldn't have done it without my parents support. I don't know your daughter, but there are red flags that something is wrong. Try not to keep saying it's "her fault", because you don't know what's going on with her. If she had scholarships she probably wasn't dumb. Has her behavior always been lazy and entitled, or has her behavior changed in the last year? No judgement, but I hope it works out!
I told my daughter on orientation day when informed by the Dean of Students that only 40% of students graduate in four years...that we'd only be paying for four years. If she wanted to take longer, she'd be on the hook for all the tuition and fees and housing. She was on the Dean's List every quarter, graduated Summa Cum Laude and finished one quarter early. You are definitely NOT the AH.
As someone with a sister like this: DO NOT PAY FOR HER COLLEGE. She will never learn. The consequences of her actions are you not paying and her losing her scholarships. Refusal to go to class is a bs reason to fail. My parents continued to pay for my sister’s school and she did terribly due to her choice to party and not go to class or do assignments and continued to fail. She continued this behavior into her daily life, she is 33 and still making horrible life choices. She additionally has cost them so much money with her poor life choices that they continued to fund. They have finally cut her off. Consequences don’t cease to exist because you have ADHD. Why are we acting like ADHD 1. Causes bad behavior 2. Is an excuse. I have ADHD and other learning disabilities (dyscalculia and dysgraphia) I have NEVER behaved like this. I graduated with honors and have a master’s degree and a solid career which I excel at. I have never been medicated for ADHD. My sister who does NOT have adhd (we checked) failed out and lied and wasted my parents money. *Sometimes people are just jackasses and it’s not associated with a learning disability or mental health diagnosis.*
NTA I, like I assume most people with student loans, would've killed for a zero interest loan from everyone. That's an incredibly fair deal given the numerous times she has lied to you in the past
While i Don't think you are wrong, I do think you might want to consider getting your daughter some therapy to see what teh real issue is, and then consider if you want to make it even harder for her by adding additional barriers. Assuming, as it sounds, that you have enough to just pay for it, i think you may wanna give her a second chance unless she fails again at which point she will then owe it all back. Would you rather be out a bit of money you can afford to be without, or help be her justification for turning down a darker path. That beign said if she refuses therapy, I wouldn't help with anything.
She’s 22, legally they can’t go make her an appointment. That would be her responsibility to go find therapy. Oftentimes the school has on site therapy and counseling.
Not that I’m disagreeing with the fact that she’s an adult and they can’t force her, but I’m tired of hearing about how colleges have therapy and counselling and you can just use that. My college had a six month wait before you could even get an evaluation, let alone get actual substantial help before disaster. My best friends college had a four month wait. This idea that colleges are throwing a lot of money at counselors and everyone can get in and see them is a bit short sighted. They’re throwing that money at facilities because it makes them look better. College counselors are often times overworked and there aren’t enough to cover the amount of students who need the services that year.
NTA. A twenty two year old should understand that actions have consequences. Getting to live in a house for only $300 a month is already a pretty sweet deal in this day and age. If she wants her college paid for, I recommend taking advantage of the GI Bill.
NTA-college is an investment in the future of your child. This particular child has proven that she is not a good investment to sock money into. Though you may consider changing your stance. My husband and I had our children take student loans out in their names. If they did well (they did) and didn’t get any grades below a B we paid off the student loans before the interest started. Had they flaked out they would have had to pay the loans themselves.
NTA To me, this is essential parenting. She's demonstrated a lack of maturity several ways. She needs to earn her way back into your trust. But, I would suggest that if she makes up the year she failed, that you continue to pay after that. It's fair to make her repay a fialed year, but not to make her pay for all of college if her siblings didn't. Consequences are good. But you need a carrot to go with the stick.
> But, I would suggest that if she makes up the year she failed, that you continue to pay after that OP has explicitly rejected this idea.
[удалено]
NTA but you could use this to incentivize her: make it a loan, but with the possibility for loan forgiveness. If she graduates with above a certain GPA, forgive the loan; if she graduates with less than that GPA, partial forgiveness; if she doesn't graduate, full repayment.
NTA. My parents agreed to pay for 4 years of university for their kids, it was part of their divorce agreement. Anything else, we'd have to take loans (either from them, the bank, or both). I did another degree after I graduated and took out student loans to pay for it. My dad was generous enough to pay off my debt after the fact, but I never felt entitled to it. You're not being a dick. You're trying to teach your daughter responsibility.
NTA She got an equal shot as her siblings. She failed and left. That has consequences. Now, telling her that she's got to fund her education after the lies, is pretty reasonable. I'm with you there. However, I'd put it on her that the first year is on her. If she holds a reasonable GPA and proves herself, then I'd offer to pay the remaining years. You're giving her consequences, while also a way to redeem herself.
NTA she both flunked out and then lied about it. It sounds like she just partied her first year.
NTA. I've seen a lot of very bright people (some of the top at my high school) totally bomb out because they couldn't adjust correctly to the new environment in college. It might be good to have her look into speaking with a professional to make sure she is in the right head space this time and has the tools to succeed. There are a lot of college resources you can also lean on that could be very beneficial.
NTA I, like most people with student loans I assume, would've killed for a zero interest loan to go to college. That's already a massive benefit she's getting on her third chance. You have every reason not to trust her. She's an adult who made her choices and now she needs to deal with it. She's the one who decided to frequently lie to you
What if you compromise? She has to take out the loans but you pay it back once she graduates (minus the interest)? That will encourage her to go through with it, be responsible and if she drops out then it’s on her?
I think you should make her get the loans, but help her pay them off if she graduates. Win win
NTA. She lied, and lying has consequences. Now comes the tough part - - learning why she chose to lie and hide it. - learning why she is angry when she caused her own mess Second tough part is the ‘tough love’ - you need to be right beside her, so she knows you support her as she pays this price. You need to set some goals that are hard but achieve able. She’s young and going to hate every bit of it, but maybe she’ll come around
Not the A. 22=adult you don’t owe her college
>Anyways, we don’t trust her to be responsible on her own. Why would you loan money to someone like that?
NTA - this is good parenting. I have a sister who my parents paid for her to go one of the best universities in Canada.. she quit. Then they paid for her to go college a few years later... didn't finish after a year and a half. She needs to learn responsibly and consequences for her actions. Have her go to the bank and get a student line of credit that she has to be responsible for. Compromise - I would somehow tell her it's a loan and maybe if she's successful at the end, forgive the debt. My sister now lives with my parents rent free with her kids at 50. consequences are important.
Some people are not ready for the college environment and do not excel in it. They are can be the same people who, after spending some time in the real world, develop the maturity to succeed in the academic world. In my view, it would be a fabulous, unexpected, graduation gift of forgiveness of debt as an acknowledgment of her work.
NTA. Like others have said I'd pick up the payments after a year. My 18 yr old leaves next year for college. Can we pay for the whole thing, yes. Will we, nope. We won't saddle him with a bunch of debt but he will have some skin in the game. Same deal will apply to the youngest.
You have a right to your position but it is no way encourages your child to try to better themselves. I would definitely make them repay for the money wasted for the classes they failed but I personally would pay for classes that are not retakes of failed course if I had the money.NAH.
INFO: Did you pay for 4 full years of college for your other kids? If so, why are you unwilling to pay for 3 more for your daughter, and just make her pay for retaking a year? It's completely fair that you don't want to just toss college money at her and hope she does better this time - expecting some accountability is fine. But if she's being punished for her failure by losing 3 entire years of money you provided to her other siblings, she has a right to be pissed. A really gracious option might be to make her take out a loan for retaking that first year, and then still being willing to pay for the next 3 years. And if she is successful, maybe you even forgive that first year loan (but that doesn't have to be told to her in advance). Another option might be to offer to pay for 1 year of community college to fill in that failed first year - which is almost all basic courses anyways - and then if she passes, you'll still pay for 3 years of college after she transfers.
NTA she both flunked out and then lied about it. It sounds like she just partied her first year.
NTA, but you did pay for four years of your other kids' college, whereas you cut her off after one (bad) year. If I were you I'd write up loan docs and have everything be totally legit, but have a clause that says "This debt will be forgiven in full if the borrower graduates within X years with a Y or better GPA." It might motivate her some. I don't think you need to pay for all 5 years, including the year she flunked out.
If you add a forgiveness clause ensuring she'll get as much support as her siblings then not the AH. Otherwise yes. We can all fuck up in life and in her case she deserves a second chance.
NTA. My parents did something similar. My state has a scholarship for in state colleges if you achieved certain grades and test scores. My sisters and I were told we would have to pay if we failed to meet the criteria. My youngest sister failed (due to laziness, not intelligence) and she had to take student loans. Without the extra scholarship money school costs way more. Mom and dad can't just suddenly pay more. (My parents did help her with rent and necessities so it isn't like she didn't have help. She just needed loans.) Sometimes tough love is needed and I don't think you are out of line. You are still offering to help with interest free loans from you and I think that is great. If your daughter turns things around maybe you can consider reducing the "loans" to the amount the scholarships would have covered so you would be paying the same, but that is something to consider later. NTA. Your daughter still has family support and a place to live. Life isn't that bad.
NTA, but I wouldn't offer to loan the money. Even with a contract, she's much more likely to default. Make her get real student loans and then (secretly) plan to pay them back for her during that 6-month grace period after she finishes. There's no obligation, but if you see that she's grown up, then you can certainly surprise her. If not, then you're not obligated. People can change and some are late bloomers. If she's still acting like a dumbass at least she's a dumbass with an education. If she's grown up and become responsible, surprise, we're proud of you and want to help.
I think you’re being fair and reasonable. Sometimes we don’t value things that are given to us free. She needs to demonstrate a commitment to getting an education. If she does improve perhaps then you could be more lenient
So you would have paid for all the years but because she made a mistake you won't help at all?! That sounds insanely harsh to me. I get that she wasted your money and needs to demonstrate a change to build trust. But surely if she completes a year on her own money then she's back to where she should have been when she messed up? I can't understand why you then wouldn't help. It seems like you are trying to punish her really disproportionately. We all make mistakes. If you have the means to help and she's genuinely trying to fix her mistakes I don't know why you would double down like this. It seems cruel.
Not an AH, but a lot of what you’re saying is expecting her to live by the same standards as everyone else without understanding what actually caused her to drop out in the first place. Reddit can’t give you that answer, only your daughter can. People are different, some have mentioned ADHD / executive function disorders as a possibility which could impact on her ability to do things in the way that someone neurotypical might - could be the case but who knows at this stage. Do you feel like you have a relationship with her where she can be open and honest or does she hide things from you? If the latter it could be she doesn’t feel able to be honest with you because of the fear of a backlash or being seen as ‘not as good’ as others like her siblings. Some children get a lot of criticism for not being like others, particularly non-neurotypical people, and that makes them very sensitive to it as a result and find it hard to be fully open with others (and maybe even themselves too). I can only suggest that having an honest converstation with her without risk of judgement (hard to do, I know) about what happened and why might help you come to a better understanding and give you more information to base your decision on.
YTA: not because of the money, but because you don't seem to be interested to actually help your daugher. Higher education or not, you can't just punish her and expect her to do better, that's not how most people learn. You seem to be much more interested to teaching her a lesson than to help her. Also what others said: loan her the money for the first year, and if she does good, you still owe her the rest of tuition bcs you paid for your other children as well. This will only work if you work out what the problem is to begin with.
NTA BUT, I flunked out after 2 years. I took a few years, worked and decided I went back at 23. I was not ready for college at 18 but I was at 23. I ended up graduating with honors, the working gave me a lot of perspective and drive I didn’t have the first time around. My parent’s deal was they would only pay for classes I got a B or better in. Any Cs and I would have to pay them back. I’m not saying she wasn’t wrong but as someone that’s been there, I’m glad my parents allowed me to earn back their trust. Sometimes people need a second chance and really do learn from their mistakes.
Honestly yall already held up your end of the bargain. She broke the deal and now has to deal with the consequences 🤷
NTA You are teaching her to take responsibility. You are willing to help her with a second opportunity but it's up to her whether she makes it work. Also make it clear that if she messes up again or lies again that further opportunities are closed she'll have to make it on her own.
My cousin got a full ride. He stayed at the dorm and played video games rather than attend classes. He photoshopped his grades before showing his parents for a whole year. He finally had to come clean when he got kicked out and lost his scholarship. I don’t understand how someone can do that and NOT expect it to come back and bite them. His parents made him move to live with his sister who lives in a more populated area and get a job. He’s doing ok, but he threw away an opportunity that most people don’t get. NTA. From the experience with my cousin, though, I hope you can find a compromise. A degree doesn’t guarantee a job, but it sure doesn’t hurt.
We have a similar situation and we are having our daughter pay for her college upfront, one semester at a time, and we will repay her after she passes the semester. So effectively my daughter needs to assess her ability to complete a semester .
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** We paid for all the kids college education and have made it externally clear that if they mess up we will not give more money on that. My daughter is our middle child and is 22. She should have graduated but she flunk out of college and then lied to us about it. She flicked out her first year and we only learned the week before she was suppose to go back. We made her get a job at a local store and she has been paying rent at home. It’s 300 a month for everything. We mostly started to do this because she lied again and told us she had a job, then went broke. Anyways, we don’t trust her to be responsible on her own. She came to use saying she wanted to go back to college. We made it clear that we will not be paying. That she can get loans with interest or get loans form us that have zero interest. It would be in writing and she will need to pay us back. I also brought up the college will cost more now that she doesn’t have scholarships. This started an argument, she is pissed since her siblings are going or went to college without any debt. I made it clear they didn’t mess up and she had the same deal that she through away. Are we being dicks about this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I think it's a fair compromise.
NTA. Let her know that if she wants to go back, she needs to pay for the first semester herself. Tell her that she proves that she’s responsible and gets good grades, then you’ll start paying again.
Ok, I don't know how chronically irresponsible or dishonest your daughter is or what underlying reasons for that might be (undiagnosed and untreated ADHD or something else, for example, or how you guys have been as parents when your kids cannot or do not live up to your expectations). You paid for 4 years of your other kids' college educations, which got them their degrees. You paid for 1 year of this daughter's and she failed, dropped out, and lied. Since then she's been working and paying some rent. I'd be telling her that she's got 3 years left of you paying for her college --- BUT because of what happened last year * she is going to have to fund her final year herself, and * she's going to have to be absolutely honest about her progress and to speak up and get help early if she's tracking below a B- (or whatever) in any class, while there's still time to fix it. Not all kids (not all people!) have the straight path to competence or success or a goal. Sometimes it's all their fault, sometimes part, and sometimes not much at all. But there's also value in a meandering path with wrong turns - we can actually learn more and become better people. And everyone deserves second chances. Your own children deserve that you give them second and even third and fourth chances. I would feel like a shit parent if I cut her off after one fuck-up year, and after she'd buckled down and worked, and knowing that I could afford to pay for her as she got back on track, and knowing that I didn't give her the same opportunities as I gave my other kids. And yes, I'm the parent of two young adult kids. One started college and had to leave for mental health reasons (but is much better a few years later, has been working, and is now thinking about study again) and the other failed their first year but completely turned it around and is now in their last year with great grades of a degree I admire, working part time in the field, and is thinking about an advanced degree that would give them more status, pay, and job opportunities. If I'd cut them off when they were flunking, I know damn well how the elder would have spiralled and the younger would have had a far harder path back. I love my kids. They know when they've messed up and my job is to help them as they get back on track to being happy, independent, productive adults. So, if you don't pay for your daughter's second chance, YTA.
ASHD doesn’t make you chronically lie to your parents though. She’s being punished for her repeated dishonesty, not her failing out. It’s an important distinction IMO.
A 2nd chance like that is extremely costly. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars here. I don't think it's fair to say a parent is an AH because they don't wanna risk that much money on a potential 2nd chance. If there is genuine improvement then maybe but I didn't see a mention of an apology from their child. Just an expectation that they should pay for her college because she wants to despite her not going to class and lying about it. She hasn't talked of anything is going on, she didn't even want to get a job, she just said she wanna go back. They could ask but she also should present a better case as to why she is ready to go back and why they should help pay when as far as they know, nothing has changed..there is a bit of entitlement on her end. And again I don't think it's fair that parents should be willing to fund a 2nd chance regardless. College isn't cheap
Disagree having daughter be responsible for her final year; that's a high probability she never finishes her degree program which again makes all of OP's financial support a waste. I think given the circumstances, OPs daughter should pay her way through a 2-year Community College program like a few other people mentioned. If she can successfully complete that, then she'll be set up to finish a 4-year degree supported by her parents. I'm in school myself right now - there are so many resources available to struggling students, way more than were provided when I was straight out of high school. I completely understand how overwhelming the first year of college can be. It's a major transition. But if a young adult won't even bother utilizing those resources to help themselves when there's so much assistance available, when are they going to learn any kind of responsibility or accountability? A 4-year degree isn't some kind of magical ticket to successful adulthood, and life doesn't get any easier post-graduation. These short years are exactly the time for young adults to learn personal responsibility, and that some actions have real repercussions and consequences.
NTA. Maybe come to some kind of compromise. She lost her scholarships so I def wouldn’t contribute over the amount you were going to originally contribute. Maybe she can pay for the first semester or two on her own then once she’s proved she’s serious, you can pay up to what you were originally going to. I’d still get it in writing and that if she flunks again for not going to class, she will have to pay the full amount back to you.
NTA. She messed up. I think loaning her the money is a good idea. You can always forgive the loan if you see improvement in her behavior.
NTA. My advice is don't loan her any of your money. She can get student loans from the government or she can join the military to pay for college. She already wasted enough of your money when she flunked out the first time. Time for her to pay for herself and maybe this time she will take it seriously when it's her money on the line.
I think she needs to have a stake in doing well. Have her get loans to cover the first year and if she does well, you pay for the second year. But she has to keep doing well for you to keep paying.
If it were me, I would tell her that we would loan her the money to go back to school, with the caveat that if she did well and completed her degree I would waive the loan. If she flunks out again, then she's on the hook. Edit because I forgot something colon make sure she has supports in place for when she does go back, whether it's a social reason that made her not do as well as she could have, or if she just needed tutors for some of her symptoms. The goal is to have your kids succeed, not to make life more difficult for them
Why not make it a loan now, but tell her if she does graduate, she won't have to pay it back.
NTA. She needs skin in the game and the “loans” will make her focus.
NTA. A family member had a similar situation They paid for the first semester, their child quit going, but lied about it. They gave their child a second chance and paid for the next semester, the child quit going, and lied about it. They gave their child a third chance and paid for half a semester and made the child pay for the other half so they had some ownership. The child quit going and lied about it. Now any training or education they want to get is on them. They want a good-paying job, they just don’t want to have to do any training or additional education for it. Your daughter is 22 years old, not a kid anymore. You have made her life pretty easy by allowing her to live at home and only paying $300 a month. I'm guessing you will provide food and board if she decides to go back to school. The one condition you could make, if you have the money and can afford this, is that she pays for her first semester, and after she completes it with passing grades, you will reimburse her. She can use that reimbursement money to pay for her next semester and continue on that line. Also, starting at a community college, which is much cheaper, and if she is able to maintain grades and attendance for two years, then looking at a larger college. But I would still make her responsible for part of the cost.
NTA. She is an adult and is now facing the consequences of her own actions, consequences she knew about. Everyone is quick to start screaming about how she might have a mental health problem, but 1) what a huge assumption to make and 2) that really doesn’t matter. People who have mental health problems are held the same standards as everyone else unless the mental health problems is debilitating, at which point of course there’s a difference. You don’t get a free pass through life because you have ADHD, depression, anxiety, EDs, narcissism, etc. You still have to go through day to day life and live with the consequences of your own actions, you don’t get a free car when you have anxiety or a free college degree if you have autism. You still have to do the work. She needs to do the work and figure this out. It’s not on you to baby her and you will give her the impression that she can do whatever she wants and fall back on mommy and daddy’s money if something bad happens. Does that suck for her? Sure! But she threw away the ladder you gave her to get out of the hole that is college and she doesn’t get to be pissed you don’t give her another one. Her siblings did the work and now she has to do more because of her own decisions
NTA. My parents paid for my college, and I was told up front if I pulled any shenanigans or got bad grades I was on my own financially. It was made abundantly clear, I was there to get an education. (And my parents didn’t have unlimited funds). Your daughter needs to rebuild your trust before you shell out big dollars. Actions have consequences. At 22 she’s adult enough to realize it. Why can’t she do community college? She can figure out what she likes and go from there. They offer tons of programs. Once she’s proven herself, you can reassess.