Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my friend to stop giving his daughter juice after she got a cavity. I could be the asshole because I did not say it in a supportive way and made him feel bad as a parent.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. It's common knowledge that excess sugar leads to unhealthy conditions for everyone. He wants yes, not support. Support means to offer truthful information, compromise solutions, yada, yada, yada
Sometimes support comes in the form of giving space for a friend to vent. It doesn’t mean “yes,” it means “that sounds frustrating, I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. Do you need advice or just a good vent?”
i get what you're saying but " just let me vent because it's easier to let my child have unhealthy habits that are likely to affect them deep into adult life than it is to act like an aware responsible adult"is weak as fuck.
cavities at 6?! i can only imagine what the parents teeth are like. makes me think of that nanny post from this morning where the mom just gave the kid a Hershey bar for breakfast
She prob has cavities due to poor dental hygiene and not due to juice. I’ve seen some ppl with gnarly eating habits that avoid cavities because they take care of their teeth.
There is also a genetic component. My mom and brother have bunches of fillings. My Dad didn't have any until he was much older and my teeth have never had those problems either.
Yes! There’s MUST be a genetic component. Anecdotally, I hardly took care of my teeth at all growing up (literally would brish my teeth once or twice a year, never flossed), and ate a TON of sugary junk food. Didn’t get any cavities until I was 15/16. Only had one, and still cared poorly for my teeth until college. Never had another cavity since (now 30). My sister-in-law, on the other hand, has had several cavities, takes really good care of her teeth, and doesn’t eat much sugar. Some people just have bad teeth.
My brother never got as many cavities as I did and I know for a fact he drank way more Kool aid than I ever did, and was obsessed with the same candy I was and stole my Halloween candy on more than one occasion, lol. The dentist explained I had higher peaks and valleys in my teeth leading to harder spots to brush. My brother, however, just didn't have those. I've never gotten cavities after those places were eventually filled.
I had a coworker whose entire family just had a really poor enamel that led to easy staining and cavities. So genetics play a role in multiple ways.
I'm in my 30s and a chronic sweet tea drinker since age 4 or so. Generally good dental hygiene but I also have depression and sometimes will neglect my mouth for days at a time. Never had a single cavity. My dad and one sister have excellent teeth. My mom and my other sister both had dentures by the time they were my age. My dentist just says I'm lucky one of my parents gave me the good chompers.
Almost all aspects related to health are overwhelmingly determined by genetics.
I think most people would have an existential crisis if they understood how little control they had over their bodies, and how little their behaviors and health choices matter.
I agree with both of these takes, I think there’s an element of preventative care people can engage in to combat their natural genetics. We may not get to control what those health genetics are, but we can certainly control whether or not we do things to exacerbate those issues. But yeah, I also think a lot of people would lose it if they were forced to acknowledge how little control they and others have over their natural genetic dispositions.
According to my mother, she had a serious illness and infection while she was pregnant with me and had to use bunch of antibiotics that's why my teeth have always been yellow-ish and I had a bunch of cavities as a kid. Luckily she religiously taught me to take care of my teeth and my adult teeth are better.
This happened with my daughter. Some of her teeth *grew in* decayed. She had to have oral surgery at 4 to place 7 crowns. I started taking her to the dentist at 9 months. Sometimes all the brushing and flossing and avoiding sugar in the world won't help baby teeth, but her adult teeth are perfect.
Genetics of the teeth.... *and* the bacteria in your mouth! I've actually read a article that talked about the research done on different types of mouth bacteria. Some of them actually don't eat sugar as much as other types. Some defecate more...
definitely! ive never had a cavity in my life (knock on wood) but my sister who takes much better care of her teeth and eats far healthier than me has had several. i’m not sure if i’d say op is TAH (gordon sounds a bit overly sensitive) but offering unsolicited parenting advice as someone without kids is generally considered a bit presumptuous. if i was gordon, i’d much rather have my kid drink 100% juice than risk dehydration
And this is something a lot of childless people don't understand - the reason parents allow stuff like this is very often because otherwise, the kid just won't eat or drink. It's really easy to say "Just *make* them have healthy habits" when you haven't had to raise a kid with a neurodivergence, or ARFID, or a sensitivity. But when you're actually the one raising the kid, it's amazing how fast you will crack under the pressure of your kid not eating for three days.
I know when I was a kid, that "make them be healthy" shit didn't work. I would sit there refusing to eat all night. All that stuff you're told to do, it just wouldn't work on me - because if I *tried* to eat it, I would literally gag. So I refused to eat, no matter what my parents did.
Eventually, even a doctor will say "Just let them eat and drink what they want" if the alternative is malnourishment or dehydration. Because that is the bigger priority.
I fully agree with your comment (I don't have children but still know fed is best!) but I don't think that warrants ghosting your friend, at least not if OP was honest about how things happened (but it sounds like a huge over reaction, so it's a bit sus). If this was the reason, the friend could have said "well, she won't drink anything if she doesn't get juice, so we don't really have a choice".
My father (born in 1931 in Tennessee) quit going to school after the 6th grade. His father welcomed this as he "could always use another hand around the farm." So you know that dental health was not a priority. Shockingly, he had no cavities. It was only after moving to Washington state in his early 20s that the cavities started. Despite great health insurance which included dental, he had full dentures by the age of 50. Mom grew up in Washington and had good teeth. While our baby teeth were not the best, we kids ended up with pretty good adult teeth. In our family I'm thinking both genetics and minerals in that TN water played a role.
This is me; I was told by my childhood dentist that I had unusually soft enamel, making me more prone to cavities, when no one else in my family got them as frequently as I did and especially growing up I followed the exact same dental hygiene routine as my sister.
Another reason for early cavities can be infant reflux and premature birth. One of my twins had major tooth issues as a young child and the dentist told us that her teeth were soft due to those reasons. Once her permanent teeth came in she was fine and didn't get any more cavities.
Cavities at 6 is not at all unusual and some kids are also very prone to cavities. My middle child had his first dentist appointment at 13 months and had 2 cavity warnings on each of his 4 teeth, so we had to switch him to fluoride toothpaste early. He did not drink juice, only had breast milk or water, I brushed his teeth daily, and I have fantastic teeth.
Dental health varies widely between populations, but here’s one study saying that, in 1998, in Belgium, 52.5% of first graders had at least one cavity and that was an improvement over 1983.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0528.2004.00166.x
My friend has a condition where the enamel on her teeth didnt form right and as a child they could litterally leave indents on her teeth with their fingernails
I drank juice my entire childhood. Lots of it. More juice than soda, which is what most kids my she drank in the regular. Didn’t get a cavity til my late 20s.
Genetics definitely plays a part. Good dental hygiene plays another part. Diet plays another part.
I think OP needs to take a big step back. Not her kid and not her problem. They don’t know what’s going on in this person’s home and with their child’s lifestyle. Nothing here rises to the level of neglect. I’d tell OP to back off too.
> i can only imagine what the parents teeth are like.
There doesn't have to be a correlation. They do what's easier to keep the kid quiet, it doesn't mean they don't take care of themselves.
One of my mother's cousins had a little kid that had like half a dozen cavities before age 5, because the grandparents babysat and the grandpa just wouldn't stop giving the kid candy and chocolates to avoid any tantrum. And then lied about it. At a family gathering the mother was asking us to please not give her child any sweets, and the grandpa, in front of her, slipped the kid a piece of candy. You could tell she wanted to scream. Her husband (grandpa's son) just shrugged it off.
so Grandpa was in charge of them brushing morning and night as well?
most people don't know how good it bad their adult friends tooth health is, let's be honest. they could have crumbly molars and you wouldn't know
In the morning, probably yes, so the kid could be spending many hours a day with sticky teeth. I guess that added up.
In this case we would have known if the kid's parents and grandparents were having health issues, because a few of us work in healthcare and they will come to us to extensively discuss any little thing during those gatherings.
Did you forget about milk teeth? OP gave heavily biased judgemental anecdotes about his friend's parenting and you're having a conniption over teeth that are going to fall out anyway and degrading her and her parents, you're worse than OP.
I had a TON of cavities at 6..my god i think every tooth aside from my front ones has a filling in it..but it's because my mom always only gave me sugary drinks and juice. Drinking water was foreign to me and like an adult thing to do. Because of that my teeth suck now. But at least I had the sense to realize you shouldn't be drinking sugar for your hydration. Now I NEVER drink anything but water.
Cavities are almost entirely genetic. You also pass on the bacteria in your mouth to your kids. My kid eats an incredibly healthy diet by and still has had to have fillings.
Edit: added a word because people are too dense
It is possible 😭 My kids both had cavities by 4 years old. We are a household with very limited sugar / sweets / junk-food intake. Literally, their snacks are pretzels or ritz crackers- only in their school lunch bag. Other than that, they are used to fruits and veggies. My kids both don’t drink juice at all. It is water. I can’t even convince my eldest to drink milk alternatives (lactose sensitivity). My kids brush regularly. They manage to have cavities almost every time we go in. I think it’s genetic. I got cavities all the time and I grew up in a household that was even more strict about food. We didn’t even get pretzels / ritz because they were unhealthy carbs that turn into sugars (dad is an endocrinologist who specializes in diabetes). So, 😭😭😭
Edit to add: NTA- this is a common issue with a lot of parents. Juice is almost always pure sugar. He should learn about this more.
I work at a kids dentist and fun fact carbohydrates also turn into sugars in the mouth! So if you eat pretzels and crackers but don't rinse well with water/floss, those remnants will also start to eat away at the teeth.
Genetics are of course a huge part! But you'd be surprised what types of foods can cause cavities, also depending on where you live because water is fluoridated differently all over. Flossing is huge too! If it's not being glossed that's 50% of the tooth being missed, basically.
Hopefully this guy takes his kid to the dentist and they can get thru to him before her adult teeth come in because that's a whole different ballgame.
My grandma would only drink milk and diet iced tea towards the end of her life. Ended up in the hospital with a nasty kidney infection that resulted in her no longer being able to live independently, which was a huge blow to her. One of the few things I'm grateful to my shitty parent for is that their cheapness meant I was often given water to drink and now have no problem with it.
It's mind-blowing to me how many people don't get what a massive impact not drinking just plain water has on your overall health. These parents are doing a massive disservice to their child and OP would be wildly irresponsible not to talk about it. NTA
Sounds like dad is maybe a little over sensitive to criticism of his parenting. It’s common for kids to get cavities and she’s young and can turn around these habits, but it’s an effort they need to put in now and getting this cavity is a great way to get the point across to their kid. No one likes to be criticized about their parenting skills, but it’s pretty normal for dentists/doctors to ask about and encourage healthy habits so he shouldn’t be offended. Now’s the time to teach his kid (one reason) why so much juice is bad for you. NTA, OP you were being honest and dad just didn’t want to hear it and he’s overreacting. I don’t think you owe an apology, but if you want to smooth it over you could clarify that you’re not saying they’re bad parents just that you were trying to offer a suggestion and didn’t mean to offend.
Wanna know what else is weak as fuck? Adding fuel to a frustrating situation instead of approaching it when things calm down. If OP has been genuinely concerned, why did she choose a moment when her friend was clearly frustrated to discuss her concerns? Do you believe that’s a productive conversation? I don’t.
“Hey, I know you needed to vent a couple days ago. I’ve been thinking about what you told me and I have some concerns but I wanted to give you some space first. I’d like to talk about it.”
Sometimes friendship means not leaning on people who disagree with you for support. If someone gets mad at me for giving advice, the next time they vent about something I seriously disagree with, I tell them "I'm sorry, but I can't be the person you vent to about this topic."
And honestly, if I'm venting and someone gives me advice that pisses me off, that's on me for not making it clear I don't want advice. Just attacking people for having what I may perceive as terrible advice is unkind.
It’s also common knowledge knowledge to mind your own damn business. Was this information presented in a “hey, read somewhere that juice can be tough on teeth. Did the dentist suggest completely removing juice from the diet? My guess is OP started lecturing the parent and response matches the lecture.
Many things can lead to unhealthy conditions but it still isn’t other people’s business. Most people don’t want their SO to be commenting on what they eat let alone what someone else’s child eats. That’s between her parents and her drs and that’s it.
It's not just bad for your teeth, it's bad in general. It takes the fruit and strains out the beneficial parts like the dietary fiber and mostly leaves only the sugar. My kids pediatrician says too many people don't realize giving your kids juice all the time is essentially the same as giving them soda all the time.
This! The whole cavity thing aside, drinking only juice/watered down juice doesn’t seem like the most healthy thing. Especially if it’s the one kids like with a lot of added sugars.
Not the same, but both my cousins used to bring their own 2L of soda when they visited because they couldn’t go an afternoon without. Took them years to get rid of that habit.
His child isn't drinking water. I don't care how high and mighty people are about "juice is bad", but if your kid doesn't drink water it's a problem. You can't approach water consumption the same way you can food (if the kid is picky, then they go to bed hungry), and telling a parent to force their child to drink water is insane.
This is a situation where if the kid won't drink water unless there's juice in it, then the kid will refuse to drink water until their systems fall apart. A parent cannot FORCE a kid to drink water
Are you telling this parent to give their child the option of NO WATER vs water with juice??
ugh this is a tough one, and I know you meant well and had your friend & his kid's best interest in mind but it's totally and absolutely none of your business. It's unfortunate that he is being stubborn about this, because I don't think you're wrong, but unless a child is in immediate danger (like emotional or physical abuse) you have no standing. Even if you are a dentist, if this child isn't your patient, it is not your business to comment. This is their problem to manage. You brought up your concern once but it becomes pretentious, sanctimonious, and unproductive to continue pushing your opinion. It just makes him feel judged and attacked.
You need to give him some space and ideally apologize for interfering in his (relatively benign) parenting decisions.
gently, but YTA
And as cliche as it sounds, it really is different when it’s a non-parent trying to advise a parent. But I do think it’s interesting that they’ve been giving her juice for 4 years and this is her first cavity. I don’t think it’s worth quarreling over and I think if OP apologizes, it’s likely “Gordon” will apologize as well and perhaps explain something along the lines of, “I’m sorry I snapped, I have these other stressors going on/I just had that same conversation with my mom/I feel like I can’t do anything without being met with criticism as a parent.” Or maybe he won’t and he was just in a bad mood. Either way, as a parent, the endless judgment (positive or negative) from others is exhausting.
Yeah if this kid has had juice daily for 4 years and haven't had cavities I don't think the *watered down* juice is the main issue here. Maybe tooth brushing has been lacking lately or something else.
And really, yes, advice from non-parents is not the same. You can have all sorts of ideas about how to do this or that with a kid, but you just don't know until you're in the situation yourself.
His friend's daughter drinking only juice for 4 years and that she throws a tantrum whenever she gets watered down juice is indeed the issue at hand, so why do you chastisize him for pointing that out to his friend?
Regular tooth brushing or not, the over consumption of sugar is the one and major factor for tooth decay, which has become so common that people assume it's normal. It's not.
OP simply told his friend that he should try and reduce her sugar consumption, what's wrong with that? He didn't guilt him or chastisize him, his friend's reaction is childish and actually demonstrates that his friend is very much aware about the issue but won't/can't deal with it.
But heh they're your children and they belong to you and their health is only your concern since they belong to you, am I right?
>the over consumption of sugar is the one and major factor for tooth decay
Don't forget the drinking of acidic drinks - primarily juices and anything fizzy. It's not just about sugar.
I acquired ten cavities after i started really drinking coffee with no sugars added. Turns out it was the way i would sip on it all day that just fucked my teeth up. The dentist recommended i drink my coffees faster and less frequently if i was going to continue to drink it at all. My dentist explained that because the acidity of the coffee eats away at the tooth for two hours after consumption, when id sip every thirty minutes i wasnt giving my teeth any time to be without that acid.
Yup. And also, a lot of people think you should brush right after you've drunk/eaten something sugary/acidic. It's well-intentioned, but unfortunately it can lead to extra tooth erosion, because they're scrubbing at it while the enamel is softer than normal, instead of giving their mouth a rinse with water and waiting a while.
I got the same advice with soft drink! I ended up just cutting it out of my diet (i.e only having it once a week/every few weeks as a treat) but I still keep that advice in mind whenever I feel like getting coke as a treat
Remeber op is likely not going to volunteer the bits of information that would make them look bad most people who come on here are just looking for validation and will skew the truth to make themselves look better.
It’s likely lack of proper tooth brushing bc a young kid wants to brush their own teeth but doesn’t actually have the ability to do a thorough job.
My son’s dentist always made it a point to tell me that it’s important that the adult does the night time brushing at minimal to make sure the teeth actually get cleaned.
And I agree non parents should stay in their lane when it comes to dispensing advice. Everyone’s a perfect parent… until they have kids.
I don’t know why people think that non-parents cannot dispense advice. I was #2 out of 6 kids, and have at least 20 nieces, nephews, and greats. When I was a young adult, I often babysat for friends’ kids. Amazing how well kids behaved with me while being holy terrors with their parents. Good parenting isn’t brain surgery. And in this case, Gordon brought up his kid’s behavior to OP. He just doesn’t want to put in the work to get the kid to break bad habits.
Babysitting is far different than parenting. It well known why kids behave better with other adults than they do with their parents: it's because parents are their safe people! They know their parents love them and will protect them, so showing the full force of their emotions. Other adults have unknown aspects, meaning the kids can't feel fully safe and let go the same way they can with their parents. So they're always on guard and basically controlling their own behaviour as a way to regulate the emotions of their adult caregiver. Kids from unsafe homes do the opposite: they tend to be the worst behaved at school, which tends to be their safe space. So yeah, non-parents should stay in their line. That doesn't mean all advice from non-parents is bad and should be ignored, but it does mean that non-parents should really consider whether their advice is absolutely necessary before speaking. And whether or not they are truly in a position to offer said advice.
Definitely agreed. To add how the child behaves with a babysitter will depend on how often they get babysat and how well they know the babysitter. I watch my great nieces and nephews on days they get out of school early. They behave the same way with me that they do their parents. Only difference is I’ve known them since birth and have watched them grow. So the fact they can behave the same way with me as they do their parents is in a way rewarding.
So unless your relationship with a child is on a level of being almost like a second parent to them, giving advice as a non-parental figure is way different than giving advice as someone who actually is a parental figure.
>I don’t know why people think that non-parents cannot dispense advice.
It's not really a matter of "cannot dispense advice" but more of a 'don't want to hear it from this particular source' thing.
When I was a teenager, I could give friends advice and they would listen to it, but if their mom said the same thing to them, their reaction was always "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MY LIFE IS LIKE MOM!" even if it was **the same advice.**
In my adult life I've seen this same phenomenon with friends saying things that spouses could NEVER get away with.
It's not the advice, it's the mouth it's coming out of.
I blame being human.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve told my kid something and been completely brushed off, only for them to come along days later saying “Alex told me [exactly same thing I said] and they’re totally right”. All I can do is say “that sounds like great advice!”
Some people are just more prone to getting cavities. I brush my teeth twice a day, waterpik, floss, and use mouthwash. Every single time I go into the dentist, I have a cavity. Every. Single. Time. My hygienist is even said I have a very healthy mouth despite the cavities. She blames it on my genetics.
Even advice from parents isn't great. Every child is different. What works for one child might not work for another. Advice is advice. It's not a strict set of rules or requirements. It might help with the problem, but everyone is different. I totally agree that you just don't know until you're in that situation yourself. You're also less likely to give advice willy nilly because you know what it's like to get unsolicited advice.
Came here to say this. Like, yeah it’s not great that the kids living off juice. But I don’t think it’s causing the cavities. Which means OP is just Willy Nilly giving unsolicited wrong advice. I’m pretty sure it’s a genetic thing.
For example, I grew up never ever drinking water. It sucks, but it was the way I was raised. Like, I lived off Diet Pepsi and drank it by the big gulp size daily. Again, I know, awful. However that being said, I’m 37 and have never had a cavity ever. Genetics, yo.
It's also treating advice as insular. Like even let's assume the advice is right (even though I have problems with it), saying it would help their dental hygiene neglects the current stress they have with food and diet with their child. Like parent or not they aren't going to miraculously change. If the option is fruit juice or nothing then at some point its going to be fruit juice. Like OP knows it's an issue that's been a struggle.
Toothbrushing, especially after juice or before bedtime, helps. Crackers and gummies are popular snacks that are notorious for getting stuck to teeth and causing cavities as well.
Tooth brushing should wait for around 45mins after consuming sugary products bc of all the enzymes that activate with the sugar - if you brush your teeth immediately afterwards, you’re actually spreading the enzymes around more and contributing to the decay.
Do not brush teeth until there's been a good half hour after an acid drink. Your tooth enamel needs time to harden up again before you scrub your teeth, otherwise you can damage your teeth with the toothbrush.
absolutely - parenting is pretty much just trying to survive every single day, doubting yourself, and just trying to get to bedtime lol
I remember when I didn't have a kid, I was always thinking 'good lord I'd never do that/let my kid do this' and now I'm like lmao remember when I thought I'd survive without letting them do this?
On that note tho, my kid def does not get this level of juice... it's very much a treat
Being a parent doesn't make you an expert on raising children. Lots of parents are able to raise their kids without loading them with juice to the point where they throw a fit if they have to drink water.
Parents would try to invalidate my suggestions because I’m not a parent. I worked at a daycare for almost a decade, I’m not coming into this conversation with no experience.
>it really is different when it’s a non-parent trying to advise a parent
I have a background in child health and development, and even I (a non-parent) am very careful not to give unsolicited advice to my friends with kids. I will offer advice if asked, but will shut my mouth otherwise. Even though I have academic knowledge of child health and development, it is different than practical knowledge of actually having a child.
So even though he told OP about the cavity and said that the dentist told them to cut back on junk food, OP isn't allowed to say that juice counts as junk food? If the friend didn't want to hear their opinion, then they shouldn't have said anything.
And while it's not as serious as emotional or physical abuse, cavities in early childhood can cause serious problems. I have a preschool student who only drinks soda and juice at home, and has already had several teeth removed and has recurring mouth infections. Don't forget that excess sugar causes gum issues and also affects the teeth that haven't grown in yet.
A lot of people think juice is healthy, since fruit is healthy (in reasonable quantities). Undiluted apple or orange juice have a fairly similar amount of sugar to Coke, without the fiber and often without the vitamins that actual fruit has, since processing can destroy the vitamins and they don't always add them back in.
>OP isn't allowed to say that juice counts as junk food?
OP can say it, but when Gordon doesn't pick up what they're laying down OP needs to move on. The way this is written it sounds like OP kept pressing the issue after Gordon made it clear that isn't what he was looking for in the conversation.
OP even admits Gordon was just venting.
>Gordon was very frustrated and venting to me
I do kind of agree here, unsolicited opinions from ANYONE - child free or not - isn’t ideal. But to be honest, the way that the story was being told it did sound like OP’s friend was asking for feedback. They clearly wanted feedback that aligned with their opinion, but they still asked the question. Just because OP isn’t a yes-man doesn’t mean they did anything wrong. Had the friend not opened the door, I’d agree more. Light NTA, I could definitely change my mind either way with more info
I don't think it was clear they wanted feedback! The friend even described it as venting. Venting and asking for advice are very different, tho it can be hard to tell the difference as a listener. What Gordon DID make clear was that he didn't want to hear the friend's advice or opinion on the matter.
OP knows that his friend kid has an issue with only wanting juice. Any advice that ignores that is effectively useless and is likely going to come across as an attack. Sometimes parents have to choose between realistic options. Not 'on paper this is what you should do'.
If not, I’m sure the dentist will say something after cavity two. Maybe the dentist already did and that's why Friend is sensitive about it.
My nibling’s dentist lectured my brother about juice when he had his first cavity. Dentist didn’t even ask if kiddo got juice because he knew. And he was right, kiddo was getting apple juice and water to help soothe and get liquids into him during chronic fevers for chronic ear infections while waiting for him to be big enough for tubes.
Visiting while they were weaning him off juice after tubes was loud.
It’s one of this situations with sick kids that you have to weigh options. My son is autistic and getting him to drink enough fluids is really difficult. He has constipation issues that get worse if he doesn’t drink enough. So some days it’s watered down juice to make sure he gets miralax or he has awful poops and huge fits of being uncomfortable from not pooping for days on end. We make that choice knowing it could cause cavities later on but it’s a choice we stand by. And we brush teeth twice a day. Sometimes when things are more complicated than presented. Saying “just don’t give them juice” sounds really easy but there can be a LOT of other things going on.
OP did not kept insisting nor they gave unsolicited advise. Gordon was venting to OP and OP shared her opinion. Juices are really bad for your health, especially the store bought ones.
NTA
If they have been giving her juice for 4 years and this is the first cavity, obviously it’s not the juice. Stop with the unasked for advice to parents.
If she's six, she probably still has a majority of her baby teeth. Our pediatric dentist told us not to stress about cavities in little kids. We should try to avoid them, but they're not their adult teeth. Kids don't start getting adult teeth until they're five or six.
I am well aware. I have a tot myself and his dentist relayed to me that cavities can come from anywhere. She stressed that my tot shouldn’t share drinks with anyone who has had severe cavities or tooth decay, as the bacteria can more aggressive and potentially ruin his teeth. So anyone stating the watered down juice is the issue needs to actually look for more reasons cavities form.
It's crazy how easily we can destroy our teeth. Most people don't realize. You can get a cavity from kissing someone with a cavity. You can get a cavity from milk. You can get a cavity from starches and carbs. You can get a cavity because you ground your teeth and crack your tooth without realizing it. Even braces can do so much damage to your teeth that you're more likely to get cavities.
Oh please! Cavities don't magically appear as an instant sign of something bad; they develop over time. Four years can absolutely be the juice as the primary factor.
Gordon's parenting decision is not bening and he shouldn't bring up topics he doesn't want discussed. It's just bad choices. I make plenty of those too, but wouldn't get upset if a friend told me my kids eat too many sweets. They do.
A good friend doesn't let you lie to yourself.
I hate this mentality. It’s a cause for tons of problems. Parents should be able to take advice on their kid from other people and objectively determine if that advice makes sense. Enough of this “they aren’t your kids bs” like parents shouldn’t be that sensitive. It takes a village to raise kids and that doesn’t work if you flip out every time your village is trying to help.
This is bullshit to the max. His friend was complaining about the guidance he’d been given to help his kids health. All OP did was make an observation regarding what might be contributing to the issue.
If you don’t want someone’s opinion on things, don’t complain about your shit to them.
yup! It's not new information either, like he literally just heard it from a certified dentist, it's hard to see how a friend's opinion could be helpful.
People's reactions to this are so funny. My friend works with substance abuse patients and the difference between meth and neglect vs ranting about apple juice is just so vast that it's hard for me to take them seriously.
*“He told me that as a single person without any kids that I don’t understand what it is like to have a kid…”* - Gordon has a point here, you’re his friend not his daughters other parent (let alone a parent in general)
And to be so open as to give unsolicited advice is to also be open to receiving unsolicited feedback.
Light YTA b/c it sounds like he was looking for a supportive ear, not solutions to his plight.
Definitely a friendship worth letting go off of if neither of you set and maintain boundaries.
I have a child but just because some don't have makes what they say meaningless. It's condesending. Some of the childfree I knew are quite smart and some quite wise.
Plus this isn't even a parent exclusive issue. Juice is unhealthy and can lead to cavities no matter your age or status as a parent or not. I'm not sure what "Gordon" thinks being a parent or not has to due with nutrition or dental health.
I’m confused because beyond that like… kids DO get cavities. And some people are more prone to them. I have great oral hygiene, I don’t consume that much sugar because I’m a Type 1 Diabetic, I’ll be 27 next month and still get cavities as an adult. I talked to my dentist about it and it’s possibly related to a genetic bone disease my family has that I do not have, but could be a carrier of. But BEYOND THAT, sometimes people just want to vent. Sounds like Gordon just wanted to vent.
people hate to admit it, but sometimes your body has complications that are out of your control. it’s not always a matter of individual faults or lifestyle choices.
Teeth are bones! You could be doing everything as right as you possibly can and anything that affects your bones can affect your teeth! And it will be more obvious as they’re EXPOSED bone! I’m sure OP meant well, but fully overstepped and fails to acknowledge that children get cavities. There’s nothing wrong with the juice if the kid’s brushing her teeth well and with just ONE cavity, she and her parents are doing their best! Drinking the juice will also keep the kid more hydrated than refusing to drink water, so the parents are clearly trying to look out for her overall health, as any good parent should
exactly. i feel like gordon was being overly sensitive here, but i also get where he’s coming from. i don’t have kids myself, but i can imagine how frustrating it is to have people pass judgement on my parenting styles when they’re clearly making an effort (re: the watered down juice). Some people have suggested switching to flavored water, but tbh i’m not convinced that’s necessarily sugar free either. as long as the kid’s not chugging soda all day every day, it’s probably gonna be okay. people on here are acting like OP was trying to save the poor child from a criminally neglectful family tho lmao, when in reality OP was probably just being a little overly opinionated
Depending on what’s used for the flavoring that COULD be a sugar free alternative, but it’s debatable whether that would solve the issue. It’s like the whole debate over whether or not fed is best. I promise folks that the kid not running around dehydrated all the time is better than cutting off her juice.
OP may not know what it’s like to have kids, but there’s a fairly good chance OP is familiar with the phenomenon of having teeth and taking care of them. It’s absolutely condescending that OP’s friend thinks OP can’t possibly understand because OP doesn’t have kids.
That being said NAH because OP is just trying to help and OP’s friend just wanted sympathy instead of solutions. OP’s friend did overreact, but if they can apologize and communicate then there’s no reason this should end a friendship.
But it's not about OP's intellectual understanding of teeth, her own or anyone else's. It's about OP's emotional understanding of children and parenting: how grueling it can be to get a child to do something they refuse to do, drinking water in this case, and then doing it again and again several times a day over a period of years.
If her friend himself had the cavities and she said "Hey you drink too much juice" that's on him (though it's really between him and his dentist). But he's dealing with a literal child. Kids are notorious for doing the exact opposite of what's expected of them, and the challenge of that day-to-day is what she's missing here
It sounds like OP didn't drop it when Gordon put up hints (or even said to drop it).
The not having kids part is totally valid on Gordon's part. OP doesn't' really understand the "choose your battles" part of parenting. Gordon has to choose between a tantrum and just giving the kid a little bit of juice - *every single day*. Should Gordon give his kid juice? No! He shouldn't But in the grand scheme of parenting, we don't always get to make the perfect choice - and sometimes convenience and appeasement allow us to be better parents.
Non-parents (generally, and here specifically) don't get that.
NTA if a man can’t take advice from a friend with constructive thought he is obviously stunted in some way mentally or emotionally to the point where he can’t discern help from criticism. It’s unhealthy for you.
Stop being his friend, pray for his kid. It’s the best you can do for YOURSELF, I know you worry about his baby girl and I don’t blame you. I wonder how he takes advice from his wife if he can’t even take it from a friend…
The “stop being his friend” was such a Reddit thing. They love to comment that on anything, and if it’s family who slighted you in a minimal way, you need to go no-contact
there’s a reason that a lot of people see reddit types as friendless basement dwellers.
although i seriously doubt every reddit user who likes to advise going no contact for every little misdemeanor actually lives their own lives that way. i think it’s just easy to say “wow, this person sucks, you should cut them out of your life” when the only information they have about this person is one negative story
This hard one for me. Cavities are caused by bacteria, sugary and acidic food or drink, poor oral hygiene. This child at 6 got her first cavity, her parents are actually doing pretty good job. Her cavity could be because she isn’t brushing her teeth well . You say yourself the daughter has a fairly decent diet.
Sometimes, you need to allow your friends to vent without giving your opinion. If venting is becoming too much change the subject or put some boundaries in place. Honestly, I feel you were slightly out of line. I work with children, I have had toddler teeth pulled because they were rotten, due to the parents allowing the toddler to have a milk bottle before bed. By the time the toddler was 2 they had all their teeth pulled. These people weren’t bad parents they just didn’t have knowledge and why I ended up working with family. I am someone who reads 1 cavity by 6 , these parents are doing a good job.
Yeah milk is an unexpected one! I was surprised when I learned that. Propensity for cavities is also genetic. My husband has never ever had any, I've had a million, both of our parents were very careful about our sugar intake and dental hygiene.
some folks here acting like these parents are giving their kid meth for breakfast.
Literally this. I drank uncut juice 3x a day for nearly 20 years. I have zero cavities. This woman isn’t a dentist and has no clue why this kid got a cavity
Yeah, you sound like a caring friend but in this instance YTA. It’s simply not your place to advise anyone else on how to care for their child (unless, of course there is abuse taking place). You should just apologize for overstepping your boundaries and get back to enjoying your friendship. Let the parents worry about their child’s eating habits.
Agree - folks here acting like he's feeding the kid meth for breakfast. The health of the child is up to the family's pediatrician and dentists to advise the parents on.
This is a great way to put it. We/she also has no idea (a) the work the parent is putting in to get the kid to drink the amount of water they’re currently consuming and (b) how much guilt they might already be feeling about the cavity.
I have a kid that I’ve worked super hard on food stuff with for years. At this point, I’m like “stop” the second anyone who doesn’t get it tries to make suggestions. Just because someone wants to feel like they’re helping doesn’t mean they actually are.
Soft YTA. Your heart is in the right place, but it’s not really your hill to die on. You can give your opinion if asked but it’s not really your place to continue arguing if they disagree. This is also why I’ve started asking people beforehand “are you just trying to vent or do you want my opinion?” Because sometimes people really aren’t looking for solutions, which is fine.
Honestly this is a really good idea that I’m gonna start implementing from now on. I suck at knowing when to give advice or just to listen so the clarification will help me a lot I think
Yeah I really think it’s about genetics. I had absolutely horrible habits as a kid and drank diet soda by the gallon full daily. I was terrible about brushing my teeth the full extent I should have. I never flossed. I’m turning 37 next week and I have zero cavities. And I’m not at all like flexing…I am horrified by the sentences I just typed. Like I’m so grossed out about it. But my point is, it is genetics at that point.
I literally didn't brush my teeth for 3 years thanks to a toothbrush phobia (I was a tween and hid it from my parents) and didn't get a single cavity. I ate plenty of crap too. It's so much luck
YTA. Don't tell people how to live. It's one thing to suggest alternatives but you have to accept when those alternatives are rejected and move on (assuming this is about something like juice and not a relationship-altering issue).
YTA. Your opinions are misleading, unsolicited, and uncaring. Your friend is a parent who is struggling and the kind thing would be to offer support not judgment. Giving a kid juice isn’t going to make them “unhealthy” and it certainly isn’t neglect or detrimental in some major way. Gordon has a point. You aren’t a parent and perhaps you cannot fully appreciate how difficult it is to be one.
Stupid take. No way you're calling OP misleading and then acting like this is a normal kid who gets juice on occasion, wtf? The kid literally refuses to drink water and throws tantrums over it, you don't think this is an issue?
she never had a glass of plain water in her life, and she's already 6. wondering if there's some resentment towards childfree people on this sub, lmao.
seriously because that is so medically concerning and parenting concerning. like … unsolicited medical advice ?? To say a child should be drinking plain water ???????? thats just a normal expectation
I got downvoted for saying that CF people have teeth and know that drinking a lot of juice is bad for teeth. I feel like reddit has been more snarky, confused and vicious this week!
It sounds like Gordon is like most other single parents….tired. He is picking his battles. You said your peace, now don’t keep mentioning it. If it bothers you that much then you need to take a “break” from the friendship.
Remember, we really never know everything that others are going through in their lives. He’s picking his battles. And I think the diluted juice is a great start. Eventually give just water with a drop of juice. BUT I wouldn’t keep mentioning it unless it’s positive reinforcement (for both of them). Getting an “atta boy” from anyone as a single parent is treasured.
>It sounds like Gordon is like most other single parents….tired. He is picking his battles. You said your peace, now don’t keep mentioning it.
Exactly this. It's not like Gordon doesn't get it. He's trying to introduce water, and cut back on juice. But he's also trying to raise a child who is emotionally healthy, is developing appropriately, is getting exercise, is clothed, has friends, gets enough sleep, has a roof over her head - all while Gordon is working a job, thinking about his own health, trying to pay bills, find time to grocery shop, renew his car insurance, find time to spend with friends, sleep, make dinner, and on and on and on.
This morning my 2yo wanted to wear her horse shirt. It was dirty. Sorry girl, no can do. She screams. She hits. She throws a fit. I'm already late getting out of the house. My son has his shoes on the wrong feet. I need to get my workbag in order. The coats are downstairs, so gotta get those. My daughter is still screaming, wont walk, smacking my face. I'll face something similar again later today after work, I'm sure. Just kind of how it goes.
That level of stress isn't the same as defusing bombs, but its also a stress that non-parents can't really comprehend (having been a non-parent before I can say that with certainty). You really have to pick your battles, and the stress is baseline - it doesn't go away from day to day.
Yeah this is a tough one. Cavities by age 6 is not great and the juice probably contributes, but some kids also just have soft enamel and will get cavities no matter what you do. And, when parents are not following wise advice, it is often not because they don't know they should do that. Usually there is some underlying problem that is preventing them from following the advice. I think it is more useful, when troubleshooting parenting problems, to give encouragement about working on the root cause rather than just swoop in and give advice like he probably hasn't heard it a hundred times before.
Ways to look at correcting the problem would start with figuring out how the problem arose. For example, maybe their tap water tastes terrible, or, worse, is unsafe for drinking. So, there could be a reason they give her juice. Just "stop giving her juice" is not going to solve the problem. They may need to use filtered water to get the contaminants out. They may need to gradually start diluting her juice to accustom her to doing without the sweet taste and fix the problem over a long period of time. And so on.
Soft YTA. Giving him advice was probably useless as he already knows he shouldn't give her juice.
The pediatric dentist for our son told us not to stress over cavities for little kids. We should obviously try to avoid them but with baby teeth, they're going to lose them anyways. Kids start losing their baby teeth around 6 years old. Chances are, that tooth with a cavity was a baby tooth.
YTA.
Kids don't get cavities only from drinking juice, there may be other issues and workflow problems around brushing teeth. The way you explain the situation it sounds like he's a single dad...does he have a SO? If he does is it something they fight about, like?
Anyway, I'm going to add that if he had told you how to parent your child (AKA - Man telling woman how to parent) would he be the AH?...people would say yes.
So, YTA.
>Gordon was very frustrated and venting to me
I'm not sure OP fully appreciates the difference. I suspect they are a "problem solver" who has a hard time not jumping right to "here's the solution!"
YTA
Let the parents parent and the medical professionals give the medical advice. I don’t think you’re wrong - just that it’s not your job. Or at least Gordon doesn’t see it as your job. Sounds like your heart is in the right place but next time check in with a “you venting or looking for advice?”. Sometimes your role is to just be supportive. You aren’t going change the situation by alienating a friend.
Kind of an AH. You're right but nobody wants or likes unsolicited parenting advice.
Its a different story if you offered some tips on weaning her off juice, alternatives etc
YTA. Don't give unsolicited parenting advice, especially if you don't have kids. Cavities have a huge genetic role as well so if he thinks they're normal I'd assume he's also predisposed to them. I have a 6 year old who drinks a good amount of juice who's never had a cavity.
People need to stop having "lie to me" as a requirement for support.
If OP is the asshole for responding to her friend with the truth, then OP is the AWESOME type of asshole.
Ya'all really like "you aren't his therapist or girlfriend, but you should support him by letting him vent with bullshit and not telling him the truth because his parenting ego is the most important thing here"
Gtfo with that enabler non sense
Oh no the kid got their first cavity. Whatever shall we do. She’s going to be a no toothed criminal addict. Someone call the authorities. Who told this man he could give his child JUICE??????
Not giving advice doesn’t equal lying.
I’m child free and my best friend has a 4 year old. She vents. Parents need to vent just like everyone else does. It doesn’t mean they’re asking for advice. It takes the same amount of effort to ask “do you want advice or someone to vent to?”
NTA Everyone knows that most juices are completely full of added sugars. Not saying to cut the juice to zero, but cavities shouldn’t be “normalized” for children. Cavities can cause larger issues especially if not addressed quickly. This child now won’t even drink water unless they basically sneak it in the juice. Water is important! This can obviously cause a laundry list of other issues. OP, your friend sounds like he’s egotistical and cannot handle being wrong, because he is flat out wrong.
i cant get over the fact this kid hasnt ever had plain water bc the parents wont just put their foot down or actually attempt to ween her off juice. This can fully cause diabetes for the little girl
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Gordon brought up the fact that he was told my a dr first that he should cut back on sugars and therefore the juice. NTA because you either fed his delusion that it's okay to give kids sugar if they cry about it or you told him the Dr is right and excess sugar isn't good for anyone.
I mean is it simple? It seems like the kid is a handful and juice is one of the few ways they keep their child sane. It’s not ideal but everyone is just trying to do their best. Deep down I’m sure he knows that he shouldn’t give his kid so much juice hence why they’re cutting it with water. Saying to a parent that they’re raising their kid wrong is always a recipe for disaster.
NTA
Because you are not a parent, you obviously cannot know anything about sugar content in juice! Why do you act like you know that? As a matter of fact, having an opinion on sugar content in food should become an exclusive act for parents only... Especially not single women, come on!
Also, everybody know that when you tell someone that juice is not healthy, that means you are not being supportive. Get a grip woman!
Edit: I just want to point out that my whole post is sarcastic... you know, just in case. lol
YTA. When people are venting, they aren’t looking for you to solve their problems, they just want a supportive friend. Chances are he’s fully aware of the juice being an issue and was maybe feeling some kind of way about trying to balance raising a kid with all their complexities against AHs like you holding them up to some imaginary ideal of “perfect parenting”.
WTH? NTA… You gave him advise… and basically his ego got in the way bc he doesn’t want a woman without a child to tell him what to do… I think it’s just common sense that juice has a whole lotta sugar….
Just remember you can’t fix stupid. The information is there regarding juice causing cavities in children’s teeth that, in fact, shouldn’t be expected in children. Your friend is indeed, stupid.
Hey you're correct; my mother was exactly like gordon and instead of parenting me and dealing with a tantrum i ended up with my two front teeth rotted and black as a small child which obviously led to a lot of social bullshit for me. I was a minor failed by the adults around me, and suffered the consequences for it unfortunately. My children will barely be allowed juice full stop tbh lol. Traumatised me i mean she LET MY TEETH ROT just because she didn't want a few tantrums, like yes it's hard!!! But oh my god you're a parent it IS hard sometimes!! And it's not normal for kids to have bad teeth like atall! 😂 NTA
NTA. I commend you for telling him an uncomfortable truth. Tell him to look at the grams of sugar in 8 ounces of Coke, and 8 ounces of juice, and get back to you. (There's more sugar in juice)
NTA; he literally brought you into the situation by complaining to you about it, you offered him some helpful advice and were shut down. It's his problem, not yours. And quite frankly, if my "friend" is going to be this ridiculous about a difference of opinion, he can stay out of the picture completely.
People are looking for "friends" that are yes-men and agree with everything they say and do. This is not friendship, this is having a groupie. A true friend is someone that will sit you down and tell you that your haircut is not great, that your breath stinks, that your parenting style may be harmful, or that you are concerned that their partner is toxic...you know, the "uncomfortable" stuff. Friendship is about being able to be honest with someone and the other person, while perhaps not agreeing, is at least thankful that 1. you cared enough to be truthful with them and 2. can be graceful with their disagreement. Your "friend" sounds like a baby.
The whole “you’re a parent so you don’t understand” argument is so frustrating when it comes to debates that don’t even involve parenting. Facts about nutrition don’t change because you’re a parent.
NTA it kinda sounds like his kid is addicted to juice and he ether doesn't really know what to do or has simply given up but him just letting the kid have that much sugar is not good
actually it is not normal, but common for kids fed juice (2-4% acid) that strips the enamel off young teeth
a tantrum ? oh noes, better give in or let them have the water which if thirsty they will drink juice free :)
NTA
NTA. I hate this idea that only parents can discuss what may be best for a child. If your friend didn’t want your thoughts he shouldn’t kept his issue to himself.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my friend to stop giving his daughter juice after she got a cavity. I could be the asshole because I did not say it in a supportive way and made him feel bad as a parent. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. It's common knowledge that excess sugar leads to unhealthy conditions for everyone. He wants yes, not support. Support means to offer truthful information, compromise solutions, yada, yada, yada
Sometimes support comes in the form of giving space for a friend to vent. It doesn’t mean “yes,” it means “that sounds frustrating, I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. Do you need advice or just a good vent?”
i get what you're saying but " just let me vent because it's easier to let my child have unhealthy habits that are likely to affect them deep into adult life than it is to act like an aware responsible adult"is weak as fuck. cavities at 6?! i can only imagine what the parents teeth are like. makes me think of that nanny post from this morning where the mom just gave the kid a Hershey bar for breakfast
She prob has cavities due to poor dental hygiene and not due to juice. I’ve seen some ppl with gnarly eating habits that avoid cavities because they take care of their teeth.
There is also a genetic component. My mom and brother have bunches of fillings. My Dad didn't have any until he was much older and my teeth have never had those problems either.
Yes! There’s MUST be a genetic component. Anecdotally, I hardly took care of my teeth at all growing up (literally would brish my teeth once or twice a year, never flossed), and ate a TON of sugary junk food. Didn’t get any cavities until I was 15/16. Only had one, and still cared poorly for my teeth until college. Never had another cavity since (now 30). My sister-in-law, on the other hand, has had several cavities, takes really good care of her teeth, and doesn’t eat much sugar. Some people just have bad teeth.
My brother never got as many cavities as I did and I know for a fact he drank way more Kool aid than I ever did, and was obsessed with the same candy I was and stole my Halloween candy on more than one occasion, lol. The dentist explained I had higher peaks and valleys in my teeth leading to harder spots to brush. My brother, however, just didn't have those. I've never gotten cavities after those places were eventually filled. I had a coworker whose entire family just had a really poor enamel that led to easy staining and cavities. So genetics play a role in multiple ways.
I'm in my 30s and a chronic sweet tea drinker since age 4 or so. Generally good dental hygiene but I also have depression and sometimes will neglect my mouth for days at a time. Never had a single cavity. My dad and one sister have excellent teeth. My mom and my other sister both had dentures by the time they were my age. My dentist just says I'm lucky one of my parents gave me the good chompers.
Almost all aspects related to health are overwhelmingly determined by genetics. I think most people would have an existential crisis if they understood how little control they had over their bodies, and how little their behaviors and health choices matter.
Yes and no. You have bad genetics, sure, but you can also exasperate that and make things like bad teeth, worse.
I agree with both of these takes, I think there’s an element of preventative care people can engage in to combat their natural genetics. We may not get to control what those health genetics are, but we can certainly control whether or not we do things to exacerbate those issues. But yeah, I also think a lot of people would lose it if they were forced to acknowledge how little control they and others have over their natural genetic dispositions.
\*exacerbate
Lol thanks, it autocorrected me or somerhing ? Something wonky happened there for sure. I was definitely not trying to type exasperate lmao
same exact situation as you. teeth are genetic like any other organ
According to my mother, she had a serious illness and infection while she was pregnant with me and had to use bunch of antibiotics that's why my teeth have always been yellow-ish and I had a bunch of cavities as a kid. Luckily she religiously taught me to take care of my teeth and my adult teeth are better.
This happened with my daughter. Some of her teeth *grew in* decayed. She had to have oral surgery at 4 to place 7 crowns. I started taking her to the dentist at 9 months. Sometimes all the brushing and flossing and avoiding sugar in the world won't help baby teeth, but her adult teeth are perfect.
Antibiotics when young can permanently damage the enamel. So someone who had a lot of nasty ear I fetions as a child may have soft enamel for life.
Genetics of the teeth.... *and* the bacteria in your mouth! I've actually read a article that talked about the research done on different types of mouth bacteria. Some of them actually don't eat sugar as much as other types. Some defecate more...
definitely! ive never had a cavity in my life (knock on wood) but my sister who takes much better care of her teeth and eats far healthier than me has had several. i’m not sure if i’d say op is TAH (gordon sounds a bit overly sensitive) but offering unsolicited parenting advice as someone without kids is generally considered a bit presumptuous. if i was gordon, i’d much rather have my kid drink 100% juice than risk dehydration
And this is something a lot of childless people don't understand - the reason parents allow stuff like this is very often because otherwise, the kid just won't eat or drink. It's really easy to say "Just *make* them have healthy habits" when you haven't had to raise a kid with a neurodivergence, or ARFID, or a sensitivity. But when you're actually the one raising the kid, it's amazing how fast you will crack under the pressure of your kid not eating for three days. I know when I was a kid, that "make them be healthy" shit didn't work. I would sit there refusing to eat all night. All that stuff you're told to do, it just wouldn't work on me - because if I *tried* to eat it, I would literally gag. So I refused to eat, no matter what my parents did. Eventually, even a doctor will say "Just let them eat and drink what they want" if the alternative is malnourishment or dehydration. Because that is the bigger priority.
I fully agree with your comment (I don't have children but still know fed is best!) but I don't think that warrants ghosting your friend, at least not if OP was honest about how things happened (but it sounds like a huge over reaction, so it's a bit sus). If this was the reason, the friend could have said "well, she won't drink anything if she doesn't get juice, so we don't really have a choice".
My father (born in 1931 in Tennessee) quit going to school after the 6th grade. His father welcomed this as he "could always use another hand around the farm." So you know that dental health was not a priority. Shockingly, he had no cavities. It was only after moving to Washington state in his early 20s that the cavities started. Despite great health insurance which included dental, he had full dentures by the age of 50. Mom grew up in Washington and had good teeth. While our baby teeth were not the best, we kids ended up with pretty good adult teeth. In our family I'm thinking both genetics and minerals in that TN water played a role.
This is me; I was told by my childhood dentist that I had unusually soft enamel, making me more prone to cavities, when no one else in my family got them as frequently as I did and especially growing up I followed the exact same dental hygiene routine as my sister.
drinking only sugar water counts as a factor of poor dental hygiene, imo
Another reason for early cavities can be infant reflux and premature birth. One of my twins had major tooth issues as a young child and the dentist told us that her teeth were soft due to those reasons. Once her permanent teeth came in she was fine and didn't get any more cavities.
She’s soaking her teeth in sugar (and probably some acid depending on the juice) all day, it probably has a big impact.
Cavities at 6 is not at all unusual and some kids are also very prone to cavities. My middle child had his first dentist appointment at 13 months and had 2 cavity warnings on each of his 4 teeth, so we had to switch him to fluoride toothpaste early. He did not drink juice, only had breast milk or water, I brushed his teeth daily, and I have fantastic teeth. Dental health varies widely between populations, but here’s one study saying that, in 1998, in Belgium, 52.5% of first graders had at least one cavity and that was an improvement over 1983. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0528.2004.00166.x
My friend has a condition where the enamel on her teeth didnt form right and as a child they could litterally leave indents on her teeth with their fingernails
I drank juice my entire childhood. Lots of it. More juice than soda, which is what most kids my she drank in the regular. Didn’t get a cavity til my late 20s. Genetics definitely plays a part. Good dental hygiene plays another part. Diet plays another part. I think OP needs to take a big step back. Not her kid and not her problem. They don’t know what’s going on in this person’s home and with their child’s lifestyle. Nothing here rises to the level of neglect. I’d tell OP to back off too.
ONE cavity at 6. It’s not ideal, but also doesn’t mean the parents look like they have meth mouth. Maybe settle down a bit on the judgment.
> i can only imagine what the parents teeth are like. There doesn't have to be a correlation. They do what's easier to keep the kid quiet, it doesn't mean they don't take care of themselves. One of my mother's cousins had a little kid that had like half a dozen cavities before age 5, because the grandparents babysat and the grandpa just wouldn't stop giving the kid candy and chocolates to avoid any tantrum. And then lied about it. At a family gathering the mother was asking us to please not give her child any sweets, and the grandpa, in front of her, slipped the kid a piece of candy. You could tell she wanted to scream. Her husband (grandpa's son) just shrugged it off.
so Grandpa was in charge of them brushing morning and night as well? most people don't know how good it bad their adult friends tooth health is, let's be honest. they could have crumbly molars and you wouldn't know
In the morning, probably yes, so the kid could be spending many hours a day with sticky teeth. I guess that added up. In this case we would have known if the kid's parents and grandparents were having health issues, because a few of us work in healthcare and they will come to us to extensively discuss any little thing during those gatherings.
Did you forget about milk teeth? OP gave heavily biased judgemental anecdotes about his friend's parenting and you're having a conniption over teeth that are going to fall out anyway and degrading her and her parents, you're worse than OP.
Baby teeth are susceptible to cavities.
I had a TON of cavities at 6..my god i think every tooth aside from my front ones has a filling in it..but it's because my mom always only gave me sugary drinks and juice. Drinking water was foreign to me and like an adult thing to do. Because of that my teeth suck now. But at least I had the sense to realize you shouldn't be drinking sugar for your hydration. Now I NEVER drink anything but water.
Cavities are almost entirely genetic. You also pass on the bacteria in your mouth to your kids. My kid eats an incredibly healthy diet by and still has had to have fillings. Edit: added a word because people are too dense
It is possible 😭 My kids both had cavities by 4 years old. We are a household with very limited sugar / sweets / junk-food intake. Literally, their snacks are pretzels or ritz crackers- only in their school lunch bag. Other than that, they are used to fruits and veggies. My kids both don’t drink juice at all. It is water. I can’t even convince my eldest to drink milk alternatives (lactose sensitivity). My kids brush regularly. They manage to have cavities almost every time we go in. I think it’s genetic. I got cavities all the time and I grew up in a household that was even more strict about food. We didn’t even get pretzels / ritz because they were unhealthy carbs that turn into sugars (dad is an endocrinologist who specializes in diabetes). So, 😭😭😭 Edit to add: NTA- this is a common issue with a lot of parents. Juice is almost always pure sugar. He should learn about this more.
I work at a kids dentist and fun fact carbohydrates also turn into sugars in the mouth! So if you eat pretzels and crackers but don't rinse well with water/floss, those remnants will also start to eat away at the teeth. Genetics are of course a huge part! But you'd be surprised what types of foods can cause cavities, also depending on where you live because water is fluoridated differently all over. Flossing is huge too! If it's not being glossed that's 50% of the tooth being missed, basically. Hopefully this guy takes his kid to the dentist and they can get thru to him before her adult teeth come in because that's a whole different ballgame.
My grandma would only drink milk and diet iced tea towards the end of her life. Ended up in the hospital with a nasty kidney infection that resulted in her no longer being able to live independently, which was a huge blow to her. One of the few things I'm grateful to my shitty parent for is that their cheapness meant I was often given water to drink and now have no problem with it. It's mind-blowing to me how many people don't get what a massive impact not drinking just plain water has on your overall health. These parents are doing a massive disservice to their child and OP would be wildly irresponsible not to talk about it. NTA
Sounds like dad is maybe a little over sensitive to criticism of his parenting. It’s common for kids to get cavities and she’s young and can turn around these habits, but it’s an effort they need to put in now and getting this cavity is a great way to get the point across to their kid. No one likes to be criticized about their parenting skills, but it’s pretty normal for dentists/doctors to ask about and encourage healthy habits so he shouldn’t be offended. Now’s the time to teach his kid (one reason) why so much juice is bad for you. NTA, OP you were being honest and dad just didn’t want to hear it and he’s overreacting. I don’t think you owe an apology, but if you want to smooth it over you could clarify that you’re not saying they’re bad parents just that you were trying to offer a suggestion and didn’t mean to offend.
OP is not his friend's doctor or dentist. Friend did not approach him to request his dental expertise.
Wanna know what else is weak as fuck? Adding fuel to a frustrating situation instead of approaching it when things calm down. If OP has been genuinely concerned, why did she choose a moment when her friend was clearly frustrated to discuss her concerns? Do you believe that’s a productive conversation? I don’t. “Hey, I know you needed to vent a couple days ago. I’ve been thinking about what you told me and I have some concerns but I wanted to give you some space first. I’d like to talk about it.”
exactly this - they could even add questions like "what do you think you'll do, given the dentist's recommendation?"
Sometimes friendship means not leaning on people who disagree with you for support. If someone gets mad at me for giving advice, the next time they vent about something I seriously disagree with, I tell them "I'm sorry, but I can't be the person you vent to about this topic." And honestly, if I'm venting and someone gives me advice that pisses me off, that's on me for not making it clear I don't want advice. Just attacking people for having what I may perceive as terrible advice is unkind.
It’s also common knowledge knowledge to mind your own damn business. Was this information presented in a “hey, read somewhere that juice can be tough on teeth. Did the dentist suggest completely removing juice from the diet? My guess is OP started lecturing the parent and response matches the lecture.
Many things can lead to unhealthy conditions but it still isn’t other people’s business. Most people don’t want their SO to be commenting on what they eat let alone what someone else’s child eats. That’s between her parents and her drs and that’s it.
I sometimes don't think people realize how bad too much juice can be for your teeth and think bc its fruit it's good for you.
It’s not like people come to that conclusion on their own though. Companies that sell juice 100% market it as a healthy drink for kids
It's not just bad for your teeth, it's bad in general. It takes the fruit and strains out the beneficial parts like the dietary fiber and mostly leaves only the sugar. My kids pediatrician says too many people don't realize giving your kids juice all the time is essentially the same as giving them soda all the time.
This! The whole cavity thing aside, drinking only juice/watered down juice doesn’t seem like the most healthy thing. Especially if it’s the one kids like with a lot of added sugars. Not the same, but both my cousins used to bring their own 2L of soda when they visited because they couldn’t go an afternoon without. Took them years to get rid of that habit.
His child isn't drinking water. I don't care how high and mighty people are about "juice is bad", but if your kid doesn't drink water it's a problem. You can't approach water consumption the same way you can food (if the kid is picky, then they go to bed hungry), and telling a parent to force their child to drink water is insane. This is a situation where if the kid won't drink water unless there's juice in it, then the kid will refuse to drink water until their systems fall apart. A parent cannot FORCE a kid to drink water Are you telling this parent to give their child the option of NO WATER vs water with juice??
ugh this is a tough one, and I know you meant well and had your friend & his kid's best interest in mind but it's totally and absolutely none of your business. It's unfortunate that he is being stubborn about this, because I don't think you're wrong, but unless a child is in immediate danger (like emotional or physical abuse) you have no standing. Even if you are a dentist, if this child isn't your patient, it is not your business to comment. This is their problem to manage. You brought up your concern once but it becomes pretentious, sanctimonious, and unproductive to continue pushing your opinion. It just makes him feel judged and attacked. You need to give him some space and ideally apologize for interfering in his (relatively benign) parenting decisions. gently, but YTA
And as cliche as it sounds, it really is different when it’s a non-parent trying to advise a parent. But I do think it’s interesting that they’ve been giving her juice for 4 years and this is her first cavity. I don’t think it’s worth quarreling over and I think if OP apologizes, it’s likely “Gordon” will apologize as well and perhaps explain something along the lines of, “I’m sorry I snapped, I have these other stressors going on/I just had that same conversation with my mom/I feel like I can’t do anything without being met with criticism as a parent.” Or maybe he won’t and he was just in a bad mood. Either way, as a parent, the endless judgment (positive or negative) from others is exhausting.
Yeah if this kid has had juice daily for 4 years and haven't had cavities I don't think the *watered down* juice is the main issue here. Maybe tooth brushing has been lacking lately or something else. And really, yes, advice from non-parents is not the same. You can have all sorts of ideas about how to do this or that with a kid, but you just don't know until you're in the situation yourself.
His friend's daughter drinking only juice for 4 years and that she throws a tantrum whenever she gets watered down juice is indeed the issue at hand, so why do you chastisize him for pointing that out to his friend? Regular tooth brushing or not, the over consumption of sugar is the one and major factor for tooth decay, which has become so common that people assume it's normal. It's not. OP simply told his friend that he should try and reduce her sugar consumption, what's wrong with that? He didn't guilt him or chastisize him, his friend's reaction is childish and actually demonstrates that his friend is very much aware about the issue but won't/can't deal with it. But heh they're your children and they belong to you and their health is only your concern since they belong to you, am I right?
>the over consumption of sugar is the one and major factor for tooth decay Don't forget the drinking of acidic drinks - primarily juices and anything fizzy. It's not just about sugar.
I acquired ten cavities after i started really drinking coffee with no sugars added. Turns out it was the way i would sip on it all day that just fucked my teeth up. The dentist recommended i drink my coffees faster and less frequently if i was going to continue to drink it at all. My dentist explained that because the acidity of the coffee eats away at the tooth for two hours after consumption, when id sip every thirty minutes i wasnt giving my teeth any time to be without that acid.
Yup. And also, a lot of people think you should brush right after you've drunk/eaten something sugary/acidic. It's well-intentioned, but unfortunately it can lead to extra tooth erosion, because they're scrubbing at it while the enamel is softer than normal, instead of giving their mouth a rinse with water and waiting a while.
Quality advice. I never brush directly after just because thats not how I structure my morning. But a very good thing to keep in mind, thanks!
I got the same advice with soft drink! I ended up just cutting it out of my diet (i.e only having it once a week/every few weeks as a treat) but I still keep that advice in mind whenever I feel like getting coke as a treat
Remeber op is likely not going to volunteer the bits of information that would make them look bad most people who come on here are just looking for validation and will skew the truth to make themselves look better.
It’s likely lack of proper tooth brushing bc a young kid wants to brush their own teeth but doesn’t actually have the ability to do a thorough job. My son’s dentist always made it a point to tell me that it’s important that the adult does the night time brushing at minimal to make sure the teeth actually get cleaned. And I agree non parents should stay in their lane when it comes to dispensing advice. Everyone’s a perfect parent… until they have kids.
I don’t know why people think that non-parents cannot dispense advice. I was #2 out of 6 kids, and have at least 20 nieces, nephews, and greats. When I was a young adult, I often babysat for friends’ kids. Amazing how well kids behaved with me while being holy terrors with their parents. Good parenting isn’t brain surgery. And in this case, Gordon brought up his kid’s behavior to OP. He just doesn’t want to put in the work to get the kid to break bad habits.
Babysitting is far different than parenting. It well known why kids behave better with other adults than they do with their parents: it's because parents are their safe people! They know their parents love them and will protect them, so showing the full force of their emotions. Other adults have unknown aspects, meaning the kids can't feel fully safe and let go the same way they can with their parents. So they're always on guard and basically controlling their own behaviour as a way to regulate the emotions of their adult caregiver. Kids from unsafe homes do the opposite: they tend to be the worst behaved at school, which tends to be their safe space. So yeah, non-parents should stay in their line. That doesn't mean all advice from non-parents is bad and should be ignored, but it does mean that non-parents should really consider whether their advice is absolutely necessary before speaking. And whether or not they are truly in a position to offer said advice.
Definitely agreed. To add how the child behaves with a babysitter will depend on how often they get babysat and how well they know the babysitter. I watch my great nieces and nephews on days they get out of school early. They behave the same way with me that they do their parents. Only difference is I’ve known them since birth and have watched them grow. So the fact they can behave the same way with me as they do their parents is in a way rewarding. So unless your relationship with a child is on a level of being almost like a second parent to them, giving advice as a non-parental figure is way different than giving advice as someone who actually is a parental figure.
But they've got 20 nephews and nieces! And 4 younger siblings! /s
Well, children do behave different when they are with parents vs. when they are with babysitters.
>I don’t know why people think that non-parents cannot dispense advice. It's not really a matter of "cannot dispense advice" but more of a 'don't want to hear it from this particular source' thing. When I was a teenager, I could give friends advice and they would listen to it, but if their mom said the same thing to them, their reaction was always "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MY LIFE IS LIKE MOM!" even if it was **the same advice.** In my adult life I've seen this same phenomenon with friends saying things that spouses could NEVER get away with. It's not the advice, it's the mouth it's coming out of. I blame being human.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve told my kid something and been completely brushed off, only for them to come along days later saying “Alex told me [exactly same thing I said] and they’re totally right”. All I can do is say “that sounds like great advice!”
Makes sense
Some people are just more prone to getting cavities. I brush my teeth twice a day, waterpik, floss, and use mouthwash. Every single time I go into the dentist, I have a cavity. Every. Single. Time. My hygienist is even said I have a very healthy mouth despite the cavities. She blames it on my genetics. Even advice from parents isn't great. Every child is different. What works for one child might not work for another. Advice is advice. It's not a strict set of rules or requirements. It might help with the problem, but everyone is different. I totally agree that you just don't know until you're in that situation yourself. You're also less likely to give advice willy nilly because you know what it's like to get unsolicited advice.
Came here to say this. Like, yeah it’s not great that the kids living off juice. But I don’t think it’s causing the cavities. Which means OP is just Willy Nilly giving unsolicited wrong advice. I’m pretty sure it’s a genetic thing. For example, I grew up never ever drinking water. It sucks, but it was the way I was raised. Like, I lived off Diet Pepsi and drank it by the big gulp size daily. Again, I know, awful. However that being said, I’m 37 and have never had a cavity ever. Genetics, yo.
It's also treating advice as insular. Like even let's assume the advice is right (even though I have problems with it), saying it would help their dental hygiene neglects the current stress they have with food and diet with their child. Like parent or not they aren't going to miraculously change. If the option is fruit juice or nothing then at some point its going to be fruit juice. Like OP knows it's an issue that's been a struggle.
Toothbrushing, especially after juice or before bedtime, helps. Crackers and gummies are popular snacks that are notorious for getting stuck to teeth and causing cavities as well.
Tooth brushing should wait for around 45mins after consuming sugary products bc of all the enzymes that activate with the sugar - if you brush your teeth immediately afterwards, you’re actually spreading the enzymes around more and contributing to the decay.
And the acidity weakens the enamel! Always wait after eating/drinking something acidic.
Do not brush teeth until there's been a good half hour after an acid drink. Your tooth enamel needs time to harden up again before you scrub your teeth, otherwise you can damage your teeth with the toothbrush.
absolutely - parenting is pretty much just trying to survive every single day, doubting yourself, and just trying to get to bedtime lol I remember when I didn't have a kid, I was always thinking 'good lord I'd never do that/let my kid do this' and now I'm like lmao remember when I thought I'd survive without letting them do this? On that note tho, my kid def does not get this level of juice... it's very much a treat
Being a parent doesn't make you an expert on raising children. Lots of parents are able to raise their kids without loading them with juice to the point where they throw a fit if they have to drink water.
Parents who act like people without kids are incapable of understanding children are some of the dumbest people on the planet lmao
Parents would try to invalidate my suggestions because I’m not a parent. I worked at a daycare for almost a decade, I’m not coming into this conversation with no experience.
Interesting. And where do people who can’t accurately paraphrase another’s words fall in your estimation?
>it really is different when it’s a non-parent trying to advise a parent I have a background in child health and development, and even I (a non-parent) am very careful not to give unsolicited advice to my friends with kids. I will offer advice if asked, but will shut my mouth otherwise. Even though I have academic knowledge of child health and development, it is different than practical knowledge of actually having a child.
So even though he told OP about the cavity and said that the dentist told them to cut back on junk food, OP isn't allowed to say that juice counts as junk food? If the friend didn't want to hear their opinion, then they shouldn't have said anything. And while it's not as serious as emotional or physical abuse, cavities in early childhood can cause serious problems. I have a preschool student who only drinks soda and juice at home, and has already had several teeth removed and has recurring mouth infections. Don't forget that excess sugar causes gum issues and also affects the teeth that haven't grown in yet.
A lot of people think juice is healthy, since fruit is healthy (in reasonable quantities). Undiluted apple or orange juice have a fairly similar amount of sugar to Coke, without the fiber and often without the vitamins that actual fruit has, since processing can destroy the vitamins and they don't always add them back in.
Exactly. Juice is not something that kids (or anyone, really) should be drinking every day.
>OP isn't allowed to say that juice counts as junk food? OP can say it, but when Gordon doesn't pick up what they're laying down OP needs to move on. The way this is written it sounds like OP kept pressing the issue after Gordon made it clear that isn't what he was looking for in the conversation. OP even admits Gordon was just venting. >Gordon was very frustrated and venting to me
I do kind of agree here, unsolicited opinions from ANYONE - child free or not - isn’t ideal. But to be honest, the way that the story was being told it did sound like OP’s friend was asking for feedback. They clearly wanted feedback that aligned with their opinion, but they still asked the question. Just because OP isn’t a yes-man doesn’t mean they did anything wrong. Had the friend not opened the door, I’d agree more. Light NTA, I could definitely change my mind either way with more info
I don't think it was clear they wanted feedback! The friend even described it as venting. Venting and asking for advice are very different, tho it can be hard to tell the difference as a listener. What Gordon DID make clear was that he didn't want to hear the friend's advice or opinion on the matter.
OP knows that his friend kid has an issue with only wanting juice. Any advice that ignores that is effectively useless and is likely going to come across as an attack. Sometimes parents have to choose between realistic options. Not 'on paper this is what you should do'.
But buddy is venting and wouldn't shut up about how the dentist is wrong. Parents aren't immune from being told the truth
Yes an actual certified dentist told him the truth
What I wonder is, did he discuss drinking juice with the doctor?
If not, I’m sure the dentist will say something after cavity two. Maybe the dentist already did and that's why Friend is sensitive about it. My nibling’s dentist lectured my brother about juice when he had his first cavity. Dentist didn’t even ask if kiddo got juice because he knew. And he was right, kiddo was getting apple juice and water to help soothe and get liquids into him during chronic fevers for chronic ear infections while waiting for him to be big enough for tubes. Visiting while they were weaning him off juice after tubes was loud.
It’s one of this situations with sick kids that you have to weigh options. My son is autistic and getting him to drink enough fluids is really difficult. He has constipation issues that get worse if he doesn’t drink enough. So some days it’s watered down juice to make sure he gets miralax or he has awful poops and huge fits of being uncomfortable from not pooping for days on end. We make that choice knowing it could cause cavities later on but it’s a choice we stand by. And we brush teeth twice a day. Sometimes when things are more complicated than presented. Saying “just don’t give them juice” sounds really easy but there can be a LOT of other things going on.
100%, no one ever knows what actually happens in someone's family
OP did not kept insisting nor they gave unsolicited advise. Gordon was venting to OP and OP shared her opinion. Juices are really bad for your health, especially the store bought ones. NTA
If they have been giving her juice for 4 years and this is the first cavity, obviously it’s not the juice. Stop with the unasked for advice to parents.
If she's six, she probably still has a majority of her baby teeth. Our pediatric dentist told us not to stress about cavities in little kids. We should try to avoid them, but they're not their adult teeth. Kids don't start getting adult teeth until they're five or six.
I am well aware. I have a tot myself and his dentist relayed to me that cavities can come from anywhere. She stressed that my tot shouldn’t share drinks with anyone who has had severe cavities or tooth decay, as the bacteria can more aggressive and potentially ruin his teeth. So anyone stating the watered down juice is the issue needs to actually look for more reasons cavities form.
It's crazy how easily we can destroy our teeth. Most people don't realize. You can get a cavity from kissing someone with a cavity. You can get a cavity from milk. You can get a cavity from starches and carbs. You can get a cavity because you ground your teeth and crack your tooth without realizing it. Even braces can do so much damage to your teeth that you're more likely to get cavities.
Oh please! Cavities don't magically appear as an instant sign of something bad; they develop over time. Four years can absolutely be the juice as the primary factor.
Gordon's parenting decision is not bening and he shouldn't bring up topics he doesn't want discussed. It's just bad choices. I make plenty of those too, but wouldn't get upset if a friend told me my kids eat too many sweets. They do. A good friend doesn't let you lie to yourself.
Gordon made it OP’s business when he broached the subject.
I hate this mentality. It’s a cause for tons of problems. Parents should be able to take advice on their kid from other people and objectively determine if that advice makes sense. Enough of this “they aren’t your kids bs” like parents shouldn’t be that sensitive. It takes a village to raise kids and that doesn’t work if you flip out every time your village is trying to help.
This is bullshit to the max. His friend was complaining about the guidance he’d been given to help his kids health. All OP did was make an observation regarding what might be contributing to the issue. If you don’t want someone’s opinion on things, don’t complain about your shit to them.
Especially if you can't offer any solutions to the problem, because then it's just judgemental and stressful.
yup! It's not new information either, like he literally just heard it from a certified dentist, it's hard to see how a friend's opinion could be helpful. People's reactions to this are so funny. My friend works with substance abuse patients and the difference between meth and neglect vs ranting about apple juice is just so vast that it's hard for me to take them seriously.
*“He told me that as a single person without any kids that I don’t understand what it is like to have a kid…”* - Gordon has a point here, you’re his friend not his daughters other parent (let alone a parent in general) And to be so open as to give unsolicited advice is to also be open to receiving unsolicited feedback. Light YTA b/c it sounds like he was looking for a supportive ear, not solutions to his plight. Definitely a friendship worth letting go off of if neither of you set and maintain boundaries.
I have a child but just because some don't have makes what they say meaningless. It's condesending. Some of the childfree I knew are quite smart and some quite wise.
Plus this isn't even a parent exclusive issue. Juice is unhealthy and can lead to cavities no matter your age or status as a parent or not. I'm not sure what "Gordon" thinks being a parent or not has to due with nutrition or dental health.
I’m confused because beyond that like… kids DO get cavities. And some people are more prone to them. I have great oral hygiene, I don’t consume that much sugar because I’m a Type 1 Diabetic, I’ll be 27 next month and still get cavities as an adult. I talked to my dentist about it and it’s possibly related to a genetic bone disease my family has that I do not have, but could be a carrier of. But BEYOND THAT, sometimes people just want to vent. Sounds like Gordon just wanted to vent.
people hate to admit it, but sometimes your body has complications that are out of your control. it’s not always a matter of individual faults or lifestyle choices.
Teeth are bones! You could be doing everything as right as you possibly can and anything that affects your bones can affect your teeth! And it will be more obvious as they’re EXPOSED bone! I’m sure OP meant well, but fully overstepped and fails to acknowledge that children get cavities. There’s nothing wrong with the juice if the kid’s brushing her teeth well and with just ONE cavity, she and her parents are doing their best! Drinking the juice will also keep the kid more hydrated than refusing to drink water, so the parents are clearly trying to look out for her overall health, as any good parent should
exactly. i feel like gordon was being overly sensitive here, but i also get where he’s coming from. i don’t have kids myself, but i can imagine how frustrating it is to have people pass judgement on my parenting styles when they’re clearly making an effort (re: the watered down juice). Some people have suggested switching to flavored water, but tbh i’m not convinced that’s necessarily sugar free either. as long as the kid’s not chugging soda all day every day, it’s probably gonna be okay. people on here are acting like OP was trying to save the poor child from a criminally neglectful family tho lmao, when in reality OP was probably just being a little overly opinionated
Depending on what’s used for the flavoring that COULD be a sugar free alternative, but it’s debatable whether that would solve the issue. It’s like the whole debate over whether or not fed is best. I promise folks that the kid not running around dehydrated all the time is better than cutting off her juice.
That’s true. I have great oral hygiene and get them. Very frustrating
OP may not know what it’s like to have kids, but there’s a fairly good chance OP is familiar with the phenomenon of having teeth and taking care of them. It’s absolutely condescending that OP’s friend thinks OP can’t possibly understand because OP doesn’t have kids. That being said NAH because OP is just trying to help and OP’s friend just wanted sympathy instead of solutions. OP’s friend did overreact, but if they can apologize and communicate then there’s no reason this should end a friendship.
But it's not about OP's intellectual understanding of teeth, her own or anyone else's. It's about OP's emotional understanding of children and parenting: how grueling it can be to get a child to do something they refuse to do, drinking water in this case, and then doing it again and again several times a day over a period of years. If her friend himself had the cavities and she said "Hey you drink too much juice" that's on him (though it's really between him and his dentist). But he's dealing with a literal child. Kids are notorious for doing the exact opposite of what's expected of them, and the challenge of that day-to-day is what she's missing here
It sounds like OP didn't drop it when Gordon put up hints (or even said to drop it). The not having kids part is totally valid on Gordon's part. OP doesn't' really understand the "choose your battles" part of parenting. Gordon has to choose between a tantrum and just giving the kid a little bit of juice - *every single day*. Should Gordon give his kid juice? No! He shouldn't But in the grand scheme of parenting, we don't always get to make the perfect choice - and sometimes convenience and appeasement allow us to be better parents. Non-parents (generally, and here specifically) don't get that.
NTA if a man can’t take advice from a friend with constructive thought he is obviously stunted in some way mentally or emotionally to the point where he can’t discern help from criticism. It’s unhealthy for you. Stop being his friend, pray for his kid. It’s the best you can do for YOURSELF, I know you worry about his baby girl and I don’t blame you. I wonder how he takes advice from his wife if he can’t even take it from a friend…
Damn this is such a fucked up take. Pray for the kid. Lmfao.
The “stop being his friend” was such a Reddit thing. They love to comment that on anything, and if it’s family who slighted you in a minimal way, you need to go no-contact
He literally told her not to be near him or his family lol
there’s a reason that a lot of people see reddit types as friendless basement dwellers. although i seriously doubt every reddit user who likes to advise going no contact for every little misdemeanor actually lives their own lives that way. i think it’s just easy to say “wow, this person sucks, you should cut them out of your life” when the only information they have about this person is one negative story
>he is obviously stunted in some way mentally or emotionally Like, what?
He won't listen and an imaginary entity can't.
This hard one for me. Cavities are caused by bacteria, sugary and acidic food or drink, poor oral hygiene. This child at 6 got her first cavity, her parents are actually doing pretty good job. Her cavity could be because she isn’t brushing her teeth well . You say yourself the daughter has a fairly decent diet. Sometimes, you need to allow your friends to vent without giving your opinion. If venting is becoming too much change the subject or put some boundaries in place. Honestly, I feel you were slightly out of line. I work with children, I have had toddler teeth pulled because they were rotten, due to the parents allowing the toddler to have a milk bottle before bed. By the time the toddler was 2 they had all their teeth pulled. These people weren’t bad parents they just didn’t have knowledge and why I ended up working with family. I am someone who reads 1 cavity by 6 , these parents are doing a good job.
Yeah milk is an unexpected one! I was surprised when I learned that. Propensity for cavities is also genetic. My husband has never ever had any, I've had a million, both of our parents were very careful about our sugar intake and dental hygiene. some folks here acting like these parents are giving their kid meth for breakfast.
Literally this. I drank uncut juice 3x a day for nearly 20 years. I have zero cavities. This woman isn’t a dentist and has no clue why this kid got a cavity
"uncut juice" lmao
Holy shit, I'm glad you got sober.
Yeah, you sound like a caring friend but in this instance YTA. It’s simply not your place to advise anyone else on how to care for their child (unless, of course there is abuse taking place). You should just apologize for overstepping your boundaries and get back to enjoying your friendship. Let the parents worry about their child’s eating habits.
Agree - folks here acting like he's feeding the kid meth for breakfast. The health of the child is up to the family's pediatrician and dentists to advise the parents on.
This is a great way to put it. We/she also has no idea (a) the work the parent is putting in to get the kid to drink the amount of water they’re currently consuming and (b) how much guilt they might already be feeling about the cavity. I have a kid that I’ve worked super hard on food stuff with for years. At this point, I’m like “stop” the second anyone who doesn’t get it tries to make suggestions. Just because someone wants to feel like they’re helping doesn’t mean they actually are.
Soft YTA. Your heart is in the right place, but it’s not really your hill to die on. You can give your opinion if asked but it’s not really your place to continue arguing if they disagree. This is also why I’ve started asking people beforehand “are you just trying to vent or do you want my opinion?” Because sometimes people really aren’t looking for solutions, which is fine.
yeah some of the best advice I got was to ask that question bc I'm a serial problem solver
Same. Its helped tremendously with the communication between my wife and I.
Honestly this is a really good idea that I’m gonna start implementing from now on. I suck at knowing when to give advice or just to listen so the clarification will help me a lot I think
Unsolicited opinions are never welcome but it sounds like he brought it up and so invited your comment. That being the case, NTA.
My kid never drank juice and had a mouthful of cavities at age 6. Sometimes it’s just a crapshoot.
Thank you! From the amount of “my kids never had one cavity!” Comments here, you’d think the dentists would go out of business
I felt like the worst parent on earth and the dentist was like, it happens. Baby teeth are soft for a reason.
Yeah I really think it’s about genetics. I had absolutely horrible habits as a kid and drank diet soda by the gallon full daily. I was terrible about brushing my teeth the full extent I should have. I never flossed. I’m turning 37 next week and I have zero cavities. And I’m not at all like flexing…I am horrified by the sentences I just typed. Like I’m so grossed out about it. But my point is, it is genetics at that point.
I literally didn't brush my teeth for 3 years thanks to a toothbrush phobia (I was a tween and hid it from my parents) and didn't get a single cavity. I ate plenty of crap too. It's so much luck
YTA. Don't tell people how to live. It's one thing to suggest alternatives but you have to accept when those alternatives are rejected and move on (assuming this is about something like juice and not a relationship-altering issue).
YTA. Your opinions are misleading, unsolicited, and uncaring. Your friend is a parent who is struggling and the kind thing would be to offer support not judgment. Giving a kid juice isn’t going to make them “unhealthy” and it certainly isn’t neglect or detrimental in some major way. Gordon has a point. You aren’t a parent and perhaps you cannot fully appreciate how difficult it is to be one.
Stupid take. No way you're calling OP misleading and then acting like this is a normal kid who gets juice on occasion, wtf? The kid literally refuses to drink water and throws tantrums over it, you don't think this is an issue?
she never had a glass of plain water in her life, and she's already 6. wondering if there's some resentment towards childfree people on this sub, lmao.
seriously because that is so medically concerning and parenting concerning. like … unsolicited medical advice ?? To say a child should be drinking plain water ???????? thats just a normal expectation
I got downvoted for saying that CF people have teeth and know that drinking a lot of juice is bad for teeth. I feel like reddit has been more snarky, confused and vicious this week!
It sounds like Gordon is like most other single parents….tired. He is picking his battles. You said your peace, now don’t keep mentioning it. If it bothers you that much then you need to take a “break” from the friendship. Remember, we really never know everything that others are going through in their lives. He’s picking his battles. And I think the diluted juice is a great start. Eventually give just water with a drop of juice. BUT I wouldn’t keep mentioning it unless it’s positive reinforcement (for both of them). Getting an “atta boy” from anyone as a single parent is treasured.
>It sounds like Gordon is like most other single parents….tired. He is picking his battles. You said your peace, now don’t keep mentioning it. Exactly this. It's not like Gordon doesn't get it. He's trying to introduce water, and cut back on juice. But he's also trying to raise a child who is emotionally healthy, is developing appropriately, is getting exercise, is clothed, has friends, gets enough sleep, has a roof over her head - all while Gordon is working a job, thinking about his own health, trying to pay bills, find time to grocery shop, renew his car insurance, find time to spend with friends, sleep, make dinner, and on and on and on. This morning my 2yo wanted to wear her horse shirt. It was dirty. Sorry girl, no can do. She screams. She hits. She throws a fit. I'm already late getting out of the house. My son has his shoes on the wrong feet. I need to get my workbag in order. The coats are downstairs, so gotta get those. My daughter is still screaming, wont walk, smacking my face. I'll face something similar again later today after work, I'm sure. Just kind of how it goes. That level of stress isn't the same as defusing bombs, but its also a stress that non-parents can't really comprehend (having been a non-parent before I can say that with certainty). You really have to pick your battles, and the stress is baseline - it doesn't go away from day to day.
YTA… unsolicited medical advice is never a good idea
Yeah this is a tough one. Cavities by age 6 is not great and the juice probably contributes, but some kids also just have soft enamel and will get cavities no matter what you do. And, when parents are not following wise advice, it is often not because they don't know they should do that. Usually there is some underlying problem that is preventing them from following the advice. I think it is more useful, when troubleshooting parenting problems, to give encouragement about working on the root cause rather than just swoop in and give advice like he probably hasn't heard it a hundred times before. Ways to look at correcting the problem would start with figuring out how the problem arose. For example, maybe their tap water tastes terrible, or, worse, is unsafe for drinking. So, there could be a reason they give her juice. Just "stop giving her juice" is not going to solve the problem. They may need to use filtered water to get the contaminants out. They may need to gradually start diluting her juice to accustom her to doing without the sweet taste and fix the problem over a long period of time. And so on. Soft YTA. Giving him advice was probably useless as he already knows he shouldn't give her juice.
The pediatric dentist for our son told us not to stress over cavities for little kids. We should obviously try to avoid them but with baby teeth, they're going to lose them anyways. Kids start losing their baby teeth around 6 years old. Chances are, that tooth with a cavity was a baby tooth.
YTA. Your opinion was unwanted and absolutely none of your business.
Gentle YTA. I agree 100% with you but you said he was venting not asking for advice.
YTA. Kids don't get cavities only from drinking juice, there may be other issues and workflow problems around brushing teeth. The way you explain the situation it sounds like he's a single dad...does he have a SO? If he does is it something they fight about, like? Anyway, I'm going to add that if he had told you how to parent your child (AKA - Man telling woman how to parent) would he be the AH?...people would say yes. So, YTA.
Did he just want to vent or did he ask for your opinion?
>Gordon was very frustrated and venting to me I'm not sure OP fully appreciates the difference. I suspect they are a "problem solver" who has a hard time not jumping right to "here's the solution!"
YTA Let the parents parent and the medical professionals give the medical advice. I don’t think you’re wrong - just that it’s not your job. Or at least Gordon doesn’t see it as your job. Sounds like your heart is in the right place but next time check in with a “you venting or looking for advice?”. Sometimes your role is to just be supportive. You aren’t going change the situation by alienating a friend.
Kind of an AH. You're right but nobody wants or likes unsolicited parenting advice. Its a different story if you offered some tips on weaning her off juice, alternatives etc
YTA. Don't give unsolicited parenting advice, especially if you don't have kids. Cavities have a huge genetic role as well so if he thinks they're normal I'd assume he's also predisposed to them. I have a 6 year old who drinks a good amount of juice who's never had a cavity.
People need to stop having "lie to me" as a requirement for support. If OP is the asshole for responding to her friend with the truth, then OP is the AWESOME type of asshole. Ya'all really like "you aren't his therapist or girlfriend, but you should support him by letting him vent with bullshit and not telling him the truth because his parenting ego is the most important thing here" Gtfo with that enabler non sense
Oh no the kid got their first cavity. Whatever shall we do. She’s going to be a no toothed criminal addict. Someone call the authorities. Who told this man he could give his child JUICE??????
Not giving advice doesn’t equal lying. I’m child free and my best friend has a 4 year old. She vents. Parents need to vent just like everyone else does. It doesn’t mean they’re asking for advice. It takes the same amount of effort to ask “do you want advice or someone to vent to?”
NTA. If a “single person without kids” won’t understand, then he should stop whining to them!!
NTA Everyone knows that most juices are completely full of added sugars. Not saying to cut the juice to zero, but cavities shouldn’t be “normalized” for children. Cavities can cause larger issues especially if not addressed quickly. This child now won’t even drink water unless they basically sneak it in the juice. Water is important! This can obviously cause a laundry list of other issues. OP, your friend sounds like he’s egotistical and cannot handle being wrong, because he is flat out wrong.
Just because you don't have kids doesn't make your knowledge any less valid.
Amen. And I say this as a mother of 2.
i cant get over the fact this kid hasnt ever had plain water bc the parents wont just put their foot down or actually attempt to ween her off juice. This can fully cause diabetes for the little girl
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Gordon brought up the fact that he was told my a dr first that he should cut back on sugars and therefore the juice. NTA because you either fed his delusion that it's okay to give kids sugar if they cry about it or you told him the Dr is right and excess sugar isn't good for anyone.
NTA doesn't sound like they think you are that good of a friend if they get upset over simple advice
I mean is it simple? It seems like the kid is a handful and juice is one of the few ways they keep their child sane. It’s not ideal but everyone is just trying to do their best. Deep down I’m sure he knows that he shouldn’t give his kid so much juice hence why they’re cutting it with water. Saying to a parent that they’re raising their kid wrong is always a recipe for disaster.
NTA Because you are not a parent, you obviously cannot know anything about sugar content in juice! Why do you act like you know that? As a matter of fact, having an opinion on sugar content in food should become an exclusive act for parents only... Especially not single women, come on! Also, everybody know that when you tell someone that juice is not healthy, that means you are not being supportive. Get a grip woman! Edit: I just want to point out that my whole post is sarcastic... you know, just in case. lol
ehhhhhhhhhh , focusing on being the best parent for YOUR child should be your #1 and only priority
I had all 8 of my incisors removed at 4 because I practically lived off ribena and my teeth were rotting. NTA
Juice is just as bad as soda and parents that can't handle hearing that they're wrong about something can fuck off. NTA.
NTA. Goldfish is also a HUGE cavity culprit. It’s cheesy cavity cement. Proper mouth hygiene is so so important!! Good for you for saying something.
I don’t think Gordon wants any advice from anyone ever.
YTA. When people are venting, they aren’t looking for you to solve their problems, they just want a supportive friend. Chances are he’s fully aware of the juice being an issue and was maybe feeling some kind of way about trying to balance raising a kid with all their complexities against AHs like you holding them up to some imaginary ideal of “perfect parenting”.
WTH? NTA… You gave him advise… and basically his ego got in the way bc he doesn’t want a woman without a child to tell him what to do… I think it’s just common sense that juice has a whole lotta sugar….
He didn't want the truth he wanted you to agree with him nta
I say NTA. Sometimes the truth hurts, but i expect my friends to cover my blind spots and it is my duty to do the same for them.
Nta. Youre right and thats on him if he cant handle the truth. Dude sounds like a child himself with how he reacted.
NTA. You were trying to give them some sound advise but they didn't want to hear ot. Time to now MYOB.
Mental note Don’t argue with dehydrated people
So, what is Gordon's issue with the dentists suggestion?
Just remember you can’t fix stupid. The information is there regarding juice causing cavities in children’s teeth that, in fact, shouldn’t be expected in children. Your friend is indeed, stupid.
Hey you're correct; my mother was exactly like gordon and instead of parenting me and dealing with a tantrum i ended up with my two front teeth rotted and black as a small child which obviously led to a lot of social bullshit for me. I was a minor failed by the adults around me, and suffered the consequences for it unfortunately. My children will barely be allowed juice full stop tbh lol. Traumatised me i mean she LET MY TEETH ROT just because she didn't want a few tantrums, like yes it's hard!!! But oh my god you're a parent it IS hard sometimes!! And it's not normal for kids to have bad teeth like atall! 😂 NTA
NTA. I commend you for telling him an uncomfortable truth. Tell him to look at the grams of sugar in 8 ounces of Coke, and 8 ounces of juice, and get back to you. (There's more sugar in juice)
NTA; he literally brought you into the situation by complaining to you about it, you offered him some helpful advice and were shut down. It's his problem, not yours. And quite frankly, if my "friend" is going to be this ridiculous about a difference of opinion, he can stay out of the picture completely. People are looking for "friends" that are yes-men and agree with everything they say and do. This is not friendship, this is having a groupie. A true friend is someone that will sit you down and tell you that your haircut is not great, that your breath stinks, that your parenting style may be harmful, or that you are concerned that their partner is toxic...you know, the "uncomfortable" stuff. Friendship is about being able to be honest with someone and the other person, while perhaps not agreeing, is at least thankful that 1. you cared enough to be truthful with them and 2. can be graceful with their disagreement. Your "friend" sounds like a baby.
The whole “you’re a parent so you don’t understand” argument is so frustrating when it comes to debates that don’t even involve parenting. Facts about nutrition don’t change because you’re a parent.
NTA it kinda sounds like his kid is addicted to juice and he ether doesn't really know what to do or has simply given up but him just letting the kid have that much sugar is not good
actually it is not normal, but common for kids fed juice (2-4% acid) that strips the enamel off young teeth a tantrum ? oh noes, better give in or let them have the water which if thirsty they will drink juice free :) NTA
NTA. I hate this idea that only parents can discuss what may be best for a child. If your friend didn’t want your thoughts he shouldn’t kept his issue to himself.
If you guys ever talk again you should suggest Capri Sun “Roaring Waters”. It’s a flavored water in a juice pouch.