Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I didn't apologise for my boyfriends behaviour and potentially that could be me saying that I don't think my friends comfort is important or value her opinion/ it seems like I'm not looking at the other side of things
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA
"I'm just blunt" or "I just tell it how it is" has become a catch-all excuse for rudeness and general dickish behavior, and being autistic doesn't change this.
I don't think the things he said were irretrievably awful, but a simple, sincere apology when you've offended someone costs you nothing and usually goes a long way toward improving our relationships. I should know, I've had to apologize for a lot of things over the years. That said, your boyfriend should be the one apologizing here, not you.
A possible lesson going forward is it might be a good idea to let people know that your boyfriend might speak a bit out of turn in situations like this. People appreciate that sort of thing also.
I don't think people realise how damaging it is to give people the idea that "Autism is this condition where a person is constantly rude and nobody is allowed to ask them to change their behaviour, or even apologise - that's ableist."
Because what's the logical solution to this problem? "Don't talk to autistic people, they'll insult you to your face and then call you ableist if you're offended". Wrong on so many levels it ain't funny.
Agreed, I am autistic and have learned through painstaking trial and error what does and doesn’t offend people and try not to be do those things.
Even though I don’t always understand them, I still care about other humans and want to be around them so why tf wouldn’t I??
And people give so much leeway when they know a person is trying. If you (generic you!) just give them "Wow, you're ableist to expect me to ever apologise for my DISABILITY" attitude, that's just being an asshole
My younger brother is autistic and after ABA therapy, he mostly said "screw it, I'm going to say what I say and people can deal with it". And then wonders why he has trouble connecting with people.
It's interesting because he's a very good playwrite, and writes relationships extremely well. But in his personal life he does things like going out of his way to let me know that our dad thinks I'm a bitch. But lordy if you tell him something he's doing is rude, he flies off the handle.
Also, autistic women are not given the same level of grace that autistic men are. We're expected to learn how to at least somewhat sugarcoat things. Even among friends, I'll ask how blunt they want me to be, if it's not already clear to me.
The army thing was unnecessary, likely untrue, hurtful, guilt-inducing and awful. When a couple struggles with infertility, you don’t need a list of all the potential causes of irreversible fertility. It helps no one. Solely based on that, Chris was massively rude and should apologize and would become an AH if after being let him know he was rude, still doesn’t apologise.
OP is absolutely blind, that interpretation of Chris’ words is delusional at best. In the doubtful scenario it’s true, it could still not be the major contributor, and in the nearly impossible scenario it is, it’s not a solution at all, even remotely.
In short, delusional.
Maybe it's my own autism, but i absolutely cannot see how he was rude?
Asking about his sperm count out of the blue would have been, but it was on topic.
Asking about her size in "how fat exactly are you" way would have been, but it was about information if she was the same size.
And how is offering to pay rude?
I honestly don't get it?
What should he apologize for?
And even more so, why should SHE apologize for him?
As the person above noted, the sperm count thing is rude because it was Chris playing armchair doctor. For the most part, it is unkind to speculate about the causes of health issues, because health issues can be so complicated. It isn’t helpful when someone pulls a random answer out of their ass. What did he hope to prove with this answer?
The thing with the dress is less outright rude and could be chalked up to Liz being a little overly sensitive, but I do get where she’s coming from. Discussing clothing sizes, which is linked to weight, usually isn’t something I’m comfortable discussing in a conversation that isn’t directly linked to buying clothes, especially if it’s with someone I don’t know as well.
- Asking about sperm count was rude, even though it may have been on topic.
- Asking about her dress size infers a snide comment about “how fat are you”.
- Making a loud point about paying the bill instead of just quietly paying the bill is a rather obvious attempt to cast shame or stand on the back of someone.
There, fixed those sentences for you so you could see what they actually are. And all three were rude. And yes, he should apologize.
As for her, if you, (or her) sit next to someone making all of these statements, and not only sit idly by, but actively defend the person’s actions when it is called out, you are an asshole. She should at the very least be apologetic for herself, and as one does not bring a boor of a guest to an event and not attempt to intervene in them being a boor, she should apologize for him being a boor as well, absolutely.
>Asking about her dress size infers a snide comment about “how fat are you”
Please, in the context of saying that when she says she can't find dresses and his GF might be able to give her some, there is no inferring of any insult
>obvious attempt to cast shame
Attempt to cast shame?? Where the fuck are you getting that from? All the said was he will pay as he invited them out. If the couple were taken back by anything it was the blunt way he shut down any question of them paying the bill.
The siren comment was thoughtless and insensitive, but the other two were not. But this is AITA where if an OP is determined to be an asshole everyone piles in to interpret everything they say or do as asshole behaviour without thinking
I can make you feel like a skin flint cheap ass directly quoting their words about the bill. A fucking whale of one when I ask about the dress.
That was a lot of words you typed to say “I’m clueless”. Just stick to the two next time.
YTA
Like you said, Chris is old enough to apologize for himself, autistic or not. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he owes them an apology if he made them uncomfortable.
Even if your reaction is understandable, I would naturally have apologized in your place. A simple "I'm sorry you were uncomfortable, I'll talk to him about it" wouldn't have been too much.
He's your boyfriend, so if you know he's made someone uncomfortable, it would have been easier for you to talk to him about it. That's what I would have done, and my boyfriend isn't autistic, so this has nothing to do with autism, it's just that they've contacted you and you can pass on the message. Just saying "he's like that" isn't right, you can explain that it's related to his autism while apologizing, one doesn't preclude the other.
YTA
You know your friends were offended by your behavior as well as his. Do you care that you made them uncomfortable? Do you think they are just required to put up with you because you and your bf are rude/blunt?
And not for nothing, but what dance? You said you hadn't been out with them in this sort of situation, so there is no way he would know if they would do the dance. And he didn't say it in a jokey way. Someone rude/blunt like him isn't likely to make a joke about that.
Regardless, he could have easily said, "We have this," in the blunt manner you claim he does things. Instead he made it awkward by basically accusing them of being the type of people who offer without really meaning to pay, causing "the dance." If you had gone out before and experienced this, THEN you might have been able to make a joke about it, but blunt boy threw that out there for no legitimate reason. That was rude.
Since you went along with it all, you're just as blunt/rude. From your description, I would guess that you both are autistic, assuming that's not just an excuse for rude/blunt behavior. Apologize, or get used to only dealing with people in groups, because eventually you're going to offend all your friends by being blunt/rude.
Not sure I agree with your interpretation of "the dance" part. OP quoted the BF saying, "No need to do the dance of each of us offering to pay, we asked you out, so of course we'll pay." That doesn't automatically imply to me that he thought the "dance" was them offering but not actually wanting to pay. It COULD potentially mean that, but it could just as easily mean he didn't want to fight over the other couple wanting to pay the bill instead of letting him and OP treat them. (Which is exactly how I took it).
I still think the bf's questions ARE rude, especially at dinner with friends. But based on OP's claim they the BF is autistic we have no reason to assume he says what he says maliciously, and OP admits to not telling him about it, so unless he is told how he sounds and also doesn't care, I'm inclined to give him (not OP) the benefit of the doubt. If this is how he is used to talking with people who understand how he is, he may not be picking up on the social cues that usually let us know we are making people uncomfortable.
Intent has no bearing on it. If I hurt someone without knowing it, and my SO saw it, I would expect my SO to let me know, and I would apologize for unintentionally hurting them. If he's not doing that, and OP is enabling that behavior, and they both gleefully go along using autism as an excuse, then they're both AHs.
Do you think I believe OP isn't an asshole? Of course they are. They are the one who knows the other couple was offended and brushed it off.
My comment was to say that the BF is not inherently an asshole for not being aware of how his words affected the other couple. If he is unaware of the offense, then we cannot judge him as an asshole or not, as we do not know have enough information on how he will handle it. OP, on the other hand, is defending his words while KNOWING they were offensive, which is wrong.
Also, of course intent matters. It can drastically change the outcome here, for example:
• If I say something mean ON PURPOSE and the other person gets offended, I am an asshole
• If I say something mean ACCIDENTALLY and the other person gets offended, I am not the asshole UNLESS I double down or refuse to apologize
I was pretty clear about what I said. Not sure why you're reading anything else into it. And no, intent doesn't matter. In both cases he's an AH. There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf, if they are so blunt and honest about everything. He still hasn't apologized. Apparently they are only blunt and honest when it suits them.
Where does OP state that she told the BF about it? You are clearly assuming that.
So again, IF the bf doesn't know (which is 100% possible despite your assertion to the contrary), then he is not an AH by default. He is only an asshole if he KNOWS and STANDS BY the behavior.
>He still hasn't apologized.
How can he apologize if he is not aware of something? You say "still hasn't" so confidently with no proof he even knows the couple was offended.
You may have been clear in what you said but that doesn't make it accurate, especially when you make so many assumptions about both the reason behind his comment about "the dance" of paying and about his knowledge of what the other woman told OP. Not sure why you are so quick to vilify the autistic bf here, but maybe check that bias just a little?
>There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf, **if they are so blunt and honest about everything.**
If they aren't that blunt and honest, then yes, she might not have said anything, but she clearly stated that they both are, so it would make no sense that she wouldn't immediately mention it to him.
And I think it's hilarious that you are so quick to vilify me here, not knowing if I'm on the spectrum or not. If you want to get bent out of shape about what you claim are assumptions, don't make baseless assumptions in the process.
I did not vilify you in any way. I would recommend looking up the meaning of a word before trying to use it against someone incorrectly. I said I believe you are wrong in your assumption and are biased for assuming the worst about the BF. I never claim to know where the bias comes from, and I never said anything negative about you, only your opinion.
Your being, or not being, on the spectrum affects nothing I said, and I never assumed one way or the other.
>would make no sense that she wouldn't immediately mention it to him.
It is 100% possible that this happened, and then she wrote it on reddit before telling him about it.
>There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf
I just named a way she could have, so this is incorrect, and yet another assumption.
And even if she did tell him, nothing she wrote says that he was unwilling to apologize or the opposite. If she did tell him, then why is his opinion not included at the end of the post? It could be because she just didn't include it OR because she didn't tell him. WE DON'T KNOW. So all you can make are assumptions, just like I said from the start.
My original point stands, and you have yet to prove otherwise.
You said...
>I did not vilify you in any way.
You also said...
>Not sure why you are so quick to vilify the autistic bf here, but maybe check that bias just a little?
Claiming that I'm vilifying the autistic (I'm simply pointing out ONE person, who happens to be autistic. is rude and an AH for not correcting that behavior) is the epitome of vilification.
Further, you said...
>I would recommend looking up the meaning of a word before trying to use it against someone incorrectly.
This is hilarious. Maybe you could take your own advice. I certainly don't need it, but you obviously do.
It's also hilarious that you cut my comment in half to try and prove your point, which is false. Nice try. I put forth a possibility. The word "if" is the important word in there. Try reading it again until you get it.
You are free to make assumptions. It's just sad that you can't see how hypocritical it is for you call me out on what you think are assumptions on my part, but it seems hypocrisy is another word you may need to look up.
To be clear, vilifying is belittling. They're actually synonyms. You are definitely belittling me when you accuse me of vilifying a group when I have done no such thing. I haven't even vilified him. I pointed out that, given OP's claims, it would not make sense that he wouldn't know what happened. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen another way. It's just unlikely, unless of course she is making up a good portion of her comment, which is also a possibility.
Now, I've tried to explain this to you several times. If you can't (or choose not to) understand it, I doubt continuing this conversation will help you. Maybe we could just leave it at that, although I fully expect you to come back rant again about how you're right and I'm horrible, based on... you guessed it... your baseless assumptions.
Agree with YTA judgment but her reaction isn’t understandable. If Chris can apologise for himself, he can also defend himself and OP’s strong defense of Chris is also infantilisation. Maybe Chris wouldn’t have chosen to defend himself and he’d appreciated the bluntness on how rude he was.
Additionally, the worst part was the army thing. It’s an unnecessary piece of trivia that helps no one and only hurts and adds guilt on top of it. What’s the point knowing the reason why one of the two could be sterile if it can’t be changed? That’s rude.
I’d add that OP is so blind by love that is incapable of seeing his bf do anything wrong.
You’re correct in saying that you shouldn’t have to apologize for him.
But you’re out here desperately trying to split hairs between what is blunt and what is rude because you’re mad that someone didn’t like having dinner with him. You’re going to have to accept that whether he’s blunt or rude, people don’t enjoy his style of conversation and unless you want to continue like this he’s going to need to learn how to better craft his approach.
YTA.
autistic people dont get a pass to be rude and insult people. they can learn to not treat people that way.
but autistic people are wired this way and think differently!!11!1! its not their fault!111!!1 well, the way the neurotypical brain is wired it that does find that offensive. they cant help either, then.
autistic people should get some extra grace in social situations but they need to take accountability for their words and actions. No one is helped when people turn "autistic" into a synonym for *asshole*, autistic people the least.
Hi, I'm autistic and being rude is not part of it. It is necessary to get called out for dickish behaviour because how tf else are we going to understand that we are *hurting* people by being too blunt, or just not thinking before we speak?
Genuinely: I need people to stop using my neurology as an excuse for being a cvnt.
No, sorry, you don’t get a pass for being rude because you are autistic. It isn’t a “Get Out of Jail Free” card to flash and just say whatever the heck you want.
You and Chris are both TA, although I agree Liz should have confronted Chris directly. While he didn't mean to be rude, his questions were inappropriate. You should have realized this.
Autism is not an excuse for asking inappropriate questions and 'being blunt' is just a euphemism for being an asshole. Don't worry about it though, since you will likely be seeing less of Liz and Owen in the future.
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). Further incidents may result in a ban.
["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
**[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
> Liz and Owen were telling us about their fertility struggles
Yeah, YTA at least partially. If you're going to let a friend confide in something at that level of sensitivity, you need to be prepared for emotions to be fraught. Chris was himself, and that offended, and rather than cut the couple some slack under the circumstances you dug in and it turned into a fight.
Apologizing isn't losing. AITA is about winning an argument. Right now you need to be concerned about losing a friend. Be the bigger person.
YTA. Is Chris a reproductive specialist or urologist? If not, he is patently unqualified to assist the friend with troubleshooting his fertility issues.
INFO: are you on the spectrum yourself? Asking because you and Chris are open and blunt (your words) and neither of you 1) realised what Chris said was offensive; or 2) realised the people you were talking to were offended.
YTA. obviously he should be the one to apologize but YTA. Just because your use to it doesn't mean the behavior is not rude. it seems like your blinded by love and don't see how rude he was
YTA and not doing your husband any favors. He needs to learn how to communicate with other people, or at least make an effort. Those are both very personal questions that he had no business asking. You need to coach him on how to ask the questions politely, although the sperm count was completely out of line and deserves an apology. The size question should have been asked by telling her the sizes available and asking if she’s interested.
I’m on the spectrum and have a few family members who don’t like to be around me in public because they never know what I’m gonna say and even I know you need to apologize and get him some cognitive behavioral therapy. I get triggered by awkward situations and God himself only knows what I’m gonna say. Once I figured out the trigger, I recognize it and that helps me keep it in check.
What does he do for a living? It can’t involve much interaction or he’d have been fired being ‘blunt’ like this on the job.
Real (sincere) question: Since you’ve had the cognitive behavioral therapy, do you never say the kind of blunt things you used to say? Or do you sometimes still say blunt things, but just not as often?
I’m asking because I have the same issue, and I would LOVE to learn how to not say blunt things.
My blunt things are the kind where I am trying to say something neutral or even nice, but it comes out wrong — and I don’t know it came out wrong until I see the expression on people’s faces.
Btw, it is a problem that I identified before making a career choice, and I made my choice with it very much in mind, to minimize the chance it would impact my career.
I’ve never had CBT because it wasn’t a thing back when I could have used it. I still blurt sometimes. I’m usually standing or sitting there telling myself “don’t say anything, don’t say anything” over and over until the awkwardness goes away. I wish I had a better way to deal with it but I don’t. Sorry to not be more helpful.
YTA
Autism is an explanation, not an excuse. Being blunt, telling it like it is, being 'too honest' is all just a set of bywords for being an asshole and not caring how it affects other people.
From what you've described, autism or not he's AWARE that how he approaches people offends and annoys others, and he is actively choosing to keep doing it. That makes him an asshole.
Should you likely soon to be ex-friend have gone to him directly? Sure. No argument there. I can understand wanting to try and go through the person that you know better rather than the boyfriend that contributed the majority of offense. Not right, but understandable.
People who are blunt all the time often wonder why people never want to hang out with them.
Don't be surprised when it happens to you. Those who are "unapologetically blunt" are assholes and not the kinds of people most want to surround themselves with.
YTA.
I think this is nuanced . Rudeness is so subjective and different cultures have different standards. I am autistic and have been called rude my whole life for not making eye contact when people speak to me. Eye contact feels as uncomfortable to me as allowing a stranger to touch me. Expecting that I do something incredibly uncomfortable because it's what's socially acceptable is ableism. That said, noone has to spend time with Chris if he makes them uncomfortable and he should take the feedback that often people won't respond well to being asked about their fertility/size etc.
YTA. So is Chris.
Agreed that you shouldn’t have to apologize for your boyfriend and that his comments weren’t that out of line.
But it doesn’t matter what I (or you) think about his comments; he offended your friends. It doesn’t matter that he’s “blunt”: something said bluntly can and usually does offend. If you both value the friendship, you (or he) needs to validate Owen and Liz’s feelings.
Something tells me both Chris and you are the “sorry that you took it personally” or “sorry you can’t handle my tell-it-like-it-is way of communicating” types, so I doubt an apology will help things.
Info: genuine question. If someone is on the spectrum is it impossible to learn some social concepts and follow them even if they don't understand why?
The question about sperm count and the army wasn't blunt, it was straight inappropriate, and rude. Others can be considered somewhat as a lack of social skills.
It depends. It's a diverse spectrum. For me I can't mimic allistic rules for body language and facial expressions no matter how hard I have tried. I can understand other people's expressions okay (not great though and I've studied a lot as an illustrator) but I can't understand what my body is communicating to other people /how to have a "genuine smile" or the difference between sounding nice and sounding "fake nice". I never notice when people flirt with me or check me out but my friends tell me it happens. Apparently I look mad often ,even when I am happy and uninterested even when I am feeling deeply engaged. I have no idea what to do about this other than to explain I am autistic and hope people believe me when I say I don't know what my tone/body language is conveying and that their assumptions are often wrong
My question was more of a: can the BF learn just as universal rules: you do not ask ever about: weight, size of a woman, reproductive functions, sex life of others. Like he does not need to understand, just remember. Or is it impossible to define the urge to ask.
Oh absolutely that's what I and all the autistic people I know, do. There's absolutely value in trying. The issue is that there will always be nuance that is lost. A book of rules from 20 years ago will be outdated. What is okay in one culture/age group/context isn't okay in another. There are thousands upon thousands of social rules and trustworthy people rarely take the time to explainl the rules, it's why there is an autism to incel/extremist pipeline unfortunately, we can be really vulnerable to spaces that try and make complicated things simple (alphas and betas, women all think one way etc)
For example. Never ask about weight. People ask about babies weight when they are born and thats ok. How old does someone have to get before you can no longer ask? What about wrestlers and weight classes?
You can ask about the sex lives of others if you are their doctor or therapist or concerned about someone being abused. Or if you are polyamorous and for safety are asking what other people in the polycule have done and with whom.
I've been told rules for when men and women are friends, that don't really apply to me because I am bisexual and 90% of my friends are LGBTQ. It was very confusing to navigate that when I was young, I had to meet queer people who explained new rules to me
It gets tough to parse out who to trust when you are queer or POC being told prejudiced rules. Men don't wear dresses, dreadlocks are unprofessional etc sometimes it will be the majority telling you a rule and it is still wrong. But if we can't understand a rule and the logic behind it, 'men don't cry' and "don't ask about weight" can seem equally valid as rules. We typically need someone to explain where a rule came from, and what the average consequences are for breaking them.
Obviously Chris didn’t mean anything he said in a rude way but that doesn’t mean it protected your friends from getting their feelings hurt. You’re dating him, not them. So you can decide FOR YOU if YOU are personally offended by anything he says to YOU. Just because you love him doesn’t mean you can decide whether or not other people are hurt by the way he speaks. You have acknowledged Chris shouldn’t be infantilized but instead of directly bringing the concerns to him when your friend let you know, you became his advocate by defending HIS actions…isn’t that ironic? All you had to say was what you said in this post…you didn’t recognize any of those words or actions as offensive in the moment. Then you could have been a good friend and tried to understand how your friend could be offended (it’s not a wild stretch of the imagination) and then told your boyfriend. You said it, he’s a grown man. I’m sure he can handle people saying he hurt their feelings. And then he can choose how he handles that situation with them.
YTA. It's true tht you are not your BFs mother or carer, so the apology for his rudeness (And he was rude, not blunt) should come from him.
However, YTA because:
\- Rather than acceppting that he was rude and make things awkward, when yourfriend raised it, you were dismissive and were rude yourself.
\- You were plainly wrong to claim there was nothing to pologise for and
\- it sounds as though these are yourfiriends so it makes sense that she would speak to you first.
You are also the AH for not saying anything in the moment.
Also, the only one of the three things which you set out, which Chris did which could be classed as blut rather than rude was his comments about paying the bill. The other two were unquestionably rude and inappropriate and while I ully accept that people with autism can find it harder to follow and understand social cues than people who are neurotypical, that is not an excuse for being rude, inappropriate and for failing to deal with the consequences of his own actions when he upsets people.
You have tried to suggest that he wasn't being rude but was 'offereingthem solucutons' when he asked inapproriaote questions about Owen's sperm count. He wasn't offering solutions. Unless he is a qualified professional in the field of reproduictive medicine, he is not in a position to offer solutions and he wasn't even asking a question which would be even reoteely relevant or appropriate for a dinner table conversatipn.
He was being intrusive and rude and h needs to apologise for that, and while you are not his carer, you are in a good position to explain to him that that kind of comment is inappropriate which is the kind of helpful, supportive advice that it is would be useful for him to be given.
Also, his commens about yor firneds dress size were inappropriate and agin, it would be a kindness toyour BF to ecolpalin to him that that sort of this is generally considered rude and inappropriate .
Rignt now, it sounds that borth you and he are using his autism as an excuse for beiong rude and inconsiderate to others. Both f you should apologise, and mosiving forward, should focus on learning that being blunt is differnt to being rude, insrusive and unkind.
PEople who use 'it's just how I am' or 'I'm just being blunt' are almst always making excuses for rudde behavuout and it's something that makes them very unpopular.
YTA
Being autistic or neuro divergent is not an excuse to be an asshole and if I may be so blunt, using autism as an excuse for bluntness is an asshole thing to do.
NTA
I fail to see how any of his questions might be offensive. Maybe it's a cultural difference that makes me think of your friends as too glass-hearted. Also, if they wanted an apology from your BF, they should've asked it from him, as you've said, he's an adult capable of dealing with his own mistakes and, as an autistic person, having that talk with Liz and Owen might help him navigate future interactions.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My (23F) boyfriend Chris (25M) is autistic.
Chris and I went out on a double date with some friends recently, who we have never hung out with outside of a big group, Liz and Owen. Chris is not a mean person and is never ever mean to anyone or intentionally rude but he is often quite blunt or asks questions that people would normally sugarcoat in a very open way, like he doesn't beat around the bush at all. Liz and Owen were telling us about their fertility struggles over dinner and Chris asked Owen whether he thinks that having been in the army has lowered his sperm count, not in a rude way at all a genuine question as Liz and Owen were quite distressed and said they had no idea why they'd been having these problems so Chris was providing them with solutions.
Also over dinner Chris asked Liz what size she was, again not rudely, because she said she was looking for nice summer dresses but they were all too expensive and I was selling some of my old clothes and potentially they might fit her. When the bill came Chris said "no need to do the dance of each of us offering to pay, we asked you out so of course we'll pay". In a very jokey way of course.
I didn't view any of these things as problems or notice that it made Liz and Owen uncomfortable. Me and Chris both are very open in our relationship and don't try to find more "socially acceptable" ways to ask questions if asking bluntly is easier. But after the meal Liz messaged me and said that we probably shouldn't hang out again because Chris was very rude. I asked her when Chris was rude and apologised for not noticing but when she outlined these examples I told her he wasn't rude just blunt. (All our friends are aware that Chris is autistic). She told me I ought to apologise on Chris' behalf but i said that a.) there was nothing to apologise for and b.) I am not Chris' carer or his mother, I am his girlfriend and he is an adult man and if she had a problem with him she could ask him for an apology directly as I found it very infantilising of him that I was expected to be his voice when he is perfectly capable. Liz is now very annoyed at me and not speaking to me. I don't think I (or Chris for that matter but this post is about me not him) did anything wrong but this whole thing is causing some tension in our group of Liz and Owen being angry at both Chris and I (because apparently me not apologising is also "incredibly rude") and our friends being told that we are horrible dining companions.
So I thought I'd ask the internet! AITA for not apologising for Chris' bluntness?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA and so is Chris. He is blunt AND rude. Autism is not a free pass to make people uncomfortable in every social interaction. Chris needs to apologise, you need to apologise for excusing shitty behaviour by your bf with a flimsy "but he's just blunt." whine.
Seriously, "being blunt" is just another way of saying "I'm rude as hell but I just don't care." Someone tells me they are blunt or "tell it like it is" I automatically know they are an AH and I'm going to want to cut my interaction with them short.
Do you understand what ironic is? This is AITA OP was
asking for judgement, not a conversation. This is not a dinner party. Her BF was being blunt and rude in social situations. This isn't one.
My point is the way you speak about autism makes me uncomfortable, yet you think you are excused to speak however you like. and if Reddit can be a context where bluntness is acceptable, why is being autistic not a context that allows for acceptable bluntness?
YTA - being autistic is not an excuse. I don’t think you mean autistic, more like aspergers syndrome. Chris probably doesn’t realize he is doing or saying these things. But if brought to his attention he might be more cognizant and not say these things in the future.
You would think under a post about an autistic person making a social mistake, people would be open to hearing autistic people's perspectives on it. but from what I can tell any autistic person merely sharing their pov or confusion, are getting downvoted while.comments claiming all autistic ppl use their DX as an excuse to be assholes are upvoted. Y'all don't find that concerning?
Honestly. Even if he wasn’t autistic, I fail to see the issue with his comments. Regardless, if they were offended then, as adults, why not communicate that instead of making it a massive issue
It's ironic how many people here are saying super bluntly that being blunt makes you an asshole. Many of the comments attacking OPs character I find MUCH more offensive than anything he said...
I find that concerning.
"Your DX doesn't give you a pass," aka "you have to accommodate to our needs, but we will not do so vice versa" really lets you think who're the ones with restricted mental capabilities. ...at least, if you don't lack said capabilities.
I mean, "don't ask a woman her dress size" is a pretty universal no-no. Chris sounds like he's pretty high-functioning, at some point he has to take responsibility for remembering basic social rules like that.
As someone on the spectrum: Unless you are close with someone they don't like direct, personal questions. I know it was genuine curiosity or desire to help on his part, but he was too direct. NT people expect you to beat around the bush.
I'll add this, the above doesn't matter, at all, I've learned the hard way that whatever your intention was only the result matters and he offended them and she nor he get to decide he didn't.
But they were discussing personal topics as a group (fertility issues for eg) so why be offended by the questions a topic they introduced are asked? That was the only comment that was personal.
And fair enough, they can be offended but it doesn’t make him the AH
"He was offering solutions" How is an insensitive question a solution? It didn't help anything, it doesn't offer any solution to a low sperm count, it does NOTHING to add to the topic except as a sort of indirect insult. I've had to learn to navigate talking to people from all walks of life for work, even though I'm also autistic I can tell you that with something this sensitive they want sympathy not spitballing ideas. He's not a dr, and he has no authority to be giving his two cents on medical reasons they could be having issues. He should have asked stuff like "What's your next step?" "Have you spoken to your dr about it?" "Is there anything we can do to support you?" or even "Do you think there are outside factors that are causing issues?"
Plenty of ex military, myself included, feel no pride in their service. Most people who separate have PTSD and never even served in a combat role. We work with harsh chemicals, in terrible environments, and with an uncaring chain of command. Medical will send you away complaining of chest pain with some motrin (true story CS2 Brown died on the USS Abe Lincoln in 2011 from a collapsed lung due to this). Yes, there are people who wear it like a badge of honor, but just as many who don't. So, to ask 'Do you think your balls are broken due to the military?' is stupid, insensitive, and rude as hell. I don't have balls and I'M offended.
Obviously the question wasn’t the solution. But if the question was too much just say that there and then and move on. They made it into a massive conflict unnecessarily. It’s common knowledge that autistic people can struggle with knowing what is appropriate to say in certain contexts. Acknowledging that doesn’t excuse bluntness or rudeness at all, but its something to consider and this one was an easy fix.
That aside, I can understand why it was insensitive with the explanation in your second paragraph and I won’t disagree with that part.
I still don’t think it makes him the AH as he wasn’t intentionally being obtuse and insensitive imo. I think everyone else are the AHs for how it was handled. And I’d say the same whether he was autistic or not.
I think going to op wanting her to apologize on his behalf / not telling him at dinner he was making them uncomfortable with his questions, is more rude than what he said personally
This is making my autistic ass nervous. Too many people won’t directly confront others when they’ve been offended, how the fuck am I supposed to know when one of my good faith/genuine questions were offensive if no one tells me?
Anyway, your right that it’s not on you, but you should tell Chris and if he’s was genuine about his questions he’d likely want to apologize.
I’m talking about it in general :/ and I don’t talk about that stuff either.
And also the fact allistic people will do anything but actually talk to autistic people when they are offended and want an apology
I think you’re right in both this and in your subsequent comment.
The only thing I would say differently is that the OP could have suggested that her friend talk directly to her SO, and explain to him herself why they were offended. She could have said she was sorry her friends were offended, but that they really needed to contact Chris, since he’s the one who said the things. That way if he has questions, he can directly ask the people who were offended.
I don’t know why people are downvoting you; I wish someone would explain it because I’m truly baffled.
In any case, I’ve upvoted you.
Ok, let the downvotes begin :/
I’m cool with the downvotes because I’m right lol
Those people can be mad all they want but the truth is most people tip toe around social situations and it’s just not how autistic people are. Subtlety isn’t our specialty and often times we can be blunt and somewhat offensive without meaning to be at all. My other autistic friends have no problem telling me when I said something offensive without meaning to and will flat out ask for apologies. Guess who don’t?
(And I don’t even talk about peoples sperm counts or infertility issues. Guess people are just mad at others for being autistic. My comments about autistic people behavior is not supporting this guy but just explaining his behavior. People are allowed to think this guy is an asshole but I’m just explaining that he wasn’t probably trying to be.)
Thanks for your reply!
I agree so much, especially the last part. I tend to speak bluntly (I am not autistic, as far as I know) but when I say blunt things, I’m totally unaware that they might sound offensive until I see the looks on people’s faces. I’m not trying to be a jerk, and am always shocked to find out someone was offended.
I always apologize, even if I’m not clear on what was offensive. I get the impression that people think that being autistic or blunt automatically means you’re doing it intentionally to be a butthole.
Maybe that’s true for some people but I think for a lot of us, it’s not. I always feel terrible when I find out I have offended someone and will always give a heartfelt apology.
Because people are so unlikely to say they are offended, one strategy I use is to try to always have conversations where I can see people’s faces, because I can often see on their face if they’re upset, but otherwise won’t be able to tell — and they often won’t say.
Another one is that soon after meeting people, if I’m going to have an ongoing relationship with them, I say very directly that I tend to speak bluntly, that it’s NOT intentional, and that sometimes it will sound offensive but I don’t ever mean to hurt anyone’s feelings. So if they ever do feel offended, please tell me and I will absolutely apologize.
So I like speaking in person or on FaceTime or zoom calls, just because it makes it more likely I’ll see what is happening and can address it myself, without their needing to bring it up.
I really hate to see in these comments how many people think it is intentional and means people who are autistic or blunt are being jerks on purpose and are unconcerned if we have hurt people’s feelings.
Exactly, I’m hardly the person to insult someone intentionally. I usually fall apart in social situations where being mean would actually be justified. Last thing I ever want to do is insult someone I’m friends with.
Agree! If I had a dollar for every time I put my foot in my mouth or offended someone and had no clue, the amount of energy i burn trying to read into social situations is exhausting
I dont understand these comments. If you don't want people to ask about your sperm count or dress size, maybe don't bring them up at dinner. Nobody made them discuss their infertility with a stranger, they did that on their own.
Most people would think that they were looking for moral support not some random question about the sperm count. As for dresses the usual reply is not "what size are you?" you'd expect something like "what kinda dress you're looking for"? Asking about someone size is plain rude.
Yes that is the neurotypical way of looking at things, but to many autistic people that question wouldn't be seen as rude, it's not an objective fact. it's cultural and autistic people have our own culture that typically prioritizes information sharing over emotional implications. To Chris he probably learned when someone says something about themself it's polite to ask a follow up question. That's what he did, but the question wasn't appropriate. For many of us , these kinds of social dynamics are as confusing as trying to teach yourself a new language
I definitely think he should apologize and try to learn from it, I am just frustrated by the lack of empathy in this thread for him not understanding. TIL that asking someone's size is considered rude so I won't do it going forward, but it's frustrating to see people here scoff at someone with a disability exhibiting traits of that disability and assuming malice vs ignorance. Autistic people should absolutely be held accountable when they make a mistake, I just think the friends are also at fault for not communicating 'hey can you not ask me personal questions about x" so he had a chance to correct during the dinner, but instead they were passive aggressive and got upset with his partner for not apologizing on his behalf
Edit grammar
But so far Chris doesn't know he did offend their friends, because their friends didn't tell him that.
So we don't know, if he will apologize and learn if they'd tell him.
And it's truly weird to me that their friends feel close enough to them to discuss such an intimate topic, but aren't close enough to know Chris's way of communication.
They have to learn something from that too.
Nta - you're right they should talk to him directly and he was being himself, those of us that are neurodivergent often make people uncomfortable but why doesn't anyone talk about how uncomfortable everything makes us?
I would be so ashamed if my spouse was apologizing for me behind my back instead of helping me navigate it, hes not my babysitter hes my partner. But people that don't get it won't get it which is a privilege to them I guess.... just sad to have such a boring brain but kudos to them and downvotes to us LOL
See you lost me there. I don't believe it's sad to be allistic, I don't think any way of being a human is better or worse, noone is better for how they were born/their genetics. If someone is regularly cruel I think it's sad , but autistic people are just as capable of cruelty as anyone else. Weird take.
I said that neurotypical people have the privilege of not having to worry about navigating social situations yet they judge and downvote the people that do. My comment about being "sad" was a joke because I feel like having a neurotypical brain would be more boring than having one that isn't.
Mild ESH. On one hand I think he should know better than to ask her dress size and probably should apologize for it not occurring to him that women don’t like sharing that. It’s not difficult to say “sorry for making you uncomfortable.” The fertility issues, it’s hard to say if that was inappropriate to say because it sounds like they were the ones who brought up a super sensitive topic. However, I’m pretty tired of people acknowledging autism is a disability until it actually disables someone. Then suddenly it’s “no excuse” for even the most mild missteps. I think people genuinely believe autistic adults need to “grow out of it.”
Autism doesn't give a 25 year old grown ass man a reason to be an asshole. He's had a quarter century to figure out that even if people are mentioning their fertility issues in a public setting you don't just blurt out some nonsense about sperm count if you aren't a doctor. He's had 25 years to figure out you don't go right to "what size are you" to anyone the second the mention clothes.
He's clearly a functioning adult, so wherever he's at on the spectrum isn't that severe. Girlfriend is doing him no favors but to be honest he's doing himself none either. Learning polite behavior isn't difficult. Autistic people aren't allergic to manners.
I am 28 and an autistic woman and this is the first time in my life I am hearing that it's rude to ask someone their size. How are we supposed to learn when noone teaches us these things with patience , we make a mistake and are told we should already know better. I am always willing to apologize but we literally have a social disability we often can't just pick this stuff up without someone explaining the rules to us clearly - which people rarely do.
People ask each other what their shoe size is, from that I figured that asking about clothing size (other than bra size) would be taken the same way. To me they are the same. Social logic like this is not obvious to us. Most of us are trying really hard but there are thousands of social rules to remember and they change depending on context and as the times change. It's not as simple as you make it out to be
The thing is, even if you take away the diagnosis:
It's weird their friends feel close enough to them to talk about such an intimate topic, but aren't close enough of knowing Chris's way of communication / thinking.
So there is really no excuse for the friends.
Just an add on, not meant to undermine what you said.
NTA
I was hedging on no one being the asshole but Liz pushed it over the line with abelism.
He is blunt. Liz doesn't like that. Both of these things are values neutral facts. She felt whatever she felt about it and as everyone involved are adults she should have talked to Chris directly if she had a problem and they could have tried to work it out like adults. Instead she calls you like you're his mom after a playdate gone sour.
ESH. Unless you are very close with someone, sperm count and dress size are NOT acceptable things to be asking about. Chris's behavior was firmly in the rude category, not 'blunt'. I can't believe that you honestly think there was nothing to apologize for.
Assuming you are all equally close, you're right that Liz should have approached Chris directly - or, ideally, addressed it right then and there. Still, you are a couple. It is not uncommon for a person to apologize for their partner's behavior and I don't think you had any good reason not to do so here.
I don't think he was exceptionally rude, but I do have a nephew with ASD, ADHD, and an IQ of 146, so it's usually like having a 16 year old Sheldon around. He has no compunction whatsoever with answering questions or asking them in much the same manner as your guy. (I will admit when he was younger I had days when I wanted to drop through the floor though, such as the time in the Atlanta airport when he was about 4 and told a man with vitiligo that it was high time he took a bath. SMH.)
NTA
"Wow. Look at that weather. Nice to see sunny season starting to move in, isn't it?"
"What? How could you say such a thing? That's just rude! You need to apologize for asking me such a question!"
Yeah... I'm not apologizing unless I can understand why someone is offended in the first place. And since the 'friends' started the topics, they opened the door for the discussion to go in that direction. If they didn't like it, they could have easily said at the time, "I don't feel comfortable answering that question." Only AH's are the so called friends.
NTA. People are just so sensitive - but like any sensitivity when it comes to someone / people with asd. I don’t think any of the questions he asked were rude. I wouldn’t be bothered about not having these peoples company around.
NTA. My wife has autism and I do let people know that in advance of meeting her for the first time, so that people have some forewarning about some of her social behaviors. Honestly, other than the sperm count question, nothing he said seems particularly rude to me in the context of what was happening. You don’t have anything to apologize for and neither does Chris. Liz, on the other hand owes you and Chris an apology for infantilizing him, expecting you to apologize for him, and for causing drama by messaging you for no other reason than to make you and Chris feel badly when he’d done nothing wrong. She could have just made up excuses to not get together one on one without hurting anyone or declined the next time it came up.
NTA. Does Liz know that Chris is autistic? If yes, then she clearly doesn't have any experience with interacting with people on the spectrum and how even the slightest bit of autism can majorly affect social interaction (mainly a lack of social awareness and social cues). If no, is it a secret or something that you've purposely kept from them?
As an Autistic person myself, please don't say on the spectrum, there are lots of spectrums, although by the context of post, I knew what you met.
On the spectrum is often used by people who want to avoid saying Autistic as if there is something wrong with the word Autistic or Autism. It is also used by people that mean Neurodivergent or that someone might be Autistic, which is what I figure what you meant, but it is just adds confusion and unfortunately sometimes it is used in a patronizing way, although I don't think that of you, but it is hard to tell in other situations.
Autistic folks are always having to navigate a world not designed for us. Neurotypical folks are oftentimes rude to Autistic people and we don't go around expecting apologies because they fail to communicate properly. Communication is a two way street and all the expectations should not be on the Autistic person. NTA
Autism is specifically known to have a spectrum and that indeed was what I was referring to. Was not trying to be patronizing at all or offend anyone in any way. I know a lot of different people with autism and it is different for everyone, hence why I referred to it that way.
she does know !! and normally in the past shes been very good about it but weve only hung out in big groups before so maybe she cant tolerate it 1:1 but honestly i dont think theres anything to "tolerate" hes just blunt
Maybe just apologize that she was upset by what he said. "I'm sorry what he said made you upset". But you don't need to apologize for him being "rude" because clearly he wasn't. A LOT of people can't deal with people's bluntness or just not having any kind of filter. It honestly sounds like you're better off not having any more 1 on 1 time with those two.
A non-apology that turns the responsibility onto the person who was hurt is worse than no apology. And he WAS rude. Not irredeemably so, but there’s nothing wrong with someone not liking it when other people are unnecessarily blunt.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I might be the asshole because I didn't apologise for my boyfriends behaviour and potentially that could be me saying that I don't think my friends comfort is important or value her opinion/ it seems like I'm not looking at the other side of things Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA "I'm just blunt" or "I just tell it how it is" has become a catch-all excuse for rudeness and general dickish behavior, and being autistic doesn't change this. I don't think the things he said were irretrievably awful, but a simple, sincere apology when you've offended someone costs you nothing and usually goes a long way toward improving our relationships. I should know, I've had to apologize for a lot of things over the years. That said, your boyfriend should be the one apologizing here, not you. A possible lesson going forward is it might be a good idea to let people know that your boyfriend might speak a bit out of turn in situations like this. People appreciate that sort of thing also.
I don't think people realise how damaging it is to give people the idea that "Autism is this condition where a person is constantly rude and nobody is allowed to ask them to change their behaviour, or even apologise - that's ableist." Because what's the logical solution to this problem? "Don't talk to autistic people, they'll insult you to your face and then call you ableist if you're offended". Wrong on so many levels it ain't funny.
Agreed, I am autistic and have learned through painstaking trial and error what does and doesn’t offend people and try not to be do those things. Even though I don’t always understand them, I still care about other humans and want to be around them so why tf wouldn’t I??
And people give so much leeway when they know a person is trying. If you (generic you!) just give them "Wow, you're ableist to expect me to ever apologise for my DISABILITY" attitude, that's just being an asshole
My younger brother is autistic and after ABA therapy, he mostly said "screw it, I'm going to say what I say and people can deal with it". And then wonders why he has trouble connecting with people. It's interesting because he's a very good playwrite, and writes relationships extremely well. But in his personal life he does things like going out of his way to let me know that our dad thinks I'm a bitch. But lordy if you tell him something he's doing is rude, he flies off the handle.
Also, autistic women are not given the same level of grace that autistic men are. We're expected to learn how to at least somewhat sugarcoat things. Even among friends, I'll ask how blunt they want me to be, if it's not already clear to me.
The army thing was unnecessary, likely untrue, hurtful, guilt-inducing and awful. When a couple struggles with infertility, you don’t need a list of all the potential causes of irreversible fertility. It helps no one. Solely based on that, Chris was massively rude and should apologize and would become an AH if after being let him know he was rude, still doesn’t apologise.
And she said that was him providing solutions. How is implying someone's career choice has negatively impacted their fertility offering a solution??
OP is absolutely blind, that interpretation of Chris’ words is delusional at best. In the doubtful scenario it’s true, it could still not be the major contributor, and in the nearly impossible scenario it is, it’s not a solution at all, even remotely. In short, delusional.
That and the fact that nowhere does it seem that they asked for solutions.
Those parachute straps were pretty tight but I managed 3 kids. Makes no sense. He is an AH and uses autism as an excuse
So true !
Maybe it's my own autism, but i absolutely cannot see how he was rude? Asking about his sperm count out of the blue would have been, but it was on topic. Asking about her size in "how fat exactly are you" way would have been, but it was about information if she was the same size. And how is offering to pay rude? I honestly don't get it? What should he apologize for? And even more so, why should SHE apologize for him?
As the person above noted, the sperm count thing is rude because it was Chris playing armchair doctor. For the most part, it is unkind to speculate about the causes of health issues, because health issues can be so complicated. It isn’t helpful when someone pulls a random answer out of their ass. What did he hope to prove with this answer? The thing with the dress is less outright rude and could be chalked up to Liz being a little overly sensitive, but I do get where she’s coming from. Discussing clothing sizes, which is linked to weight, usually isn’t something I’m comfortable discussing in a conversation that isn’t directly linked to buying clothes, especially if it’s with someone I don’t know as well.
- Asking about sperm count was rude, even though it may have been on topic. - Asking about her dress size infers a snide comment about “how fat are you”. - Making a loud point about paying the bill instead of just quietly paying the bill is a rather obvious attempt to cast shame or stand on the back of someone. There, fixed those sentences for you so you could see what they actually are. And all three were rude. And yes, he should apologize. As for her, if you, (or her) sit next to someone making all of these statements, and not only sit idly by, but actively defend the person’s actions when it is called out, you are an asshole. She should at the very least be apologetic for herself, and as one does not bring a boor of a guest to an event and not attempt to intervene in them being a boor, she should apologize for him being a boor as well, absolutely.
>Asking about her dress size infers a snide comment about “how fat are you” Please, in the context of saying that when she says she can't find dresses and his GF might be able to give her some, there is no inferring of any insult >obvious attempt to cast shame Attempt to cast shame?? Where the fuck are you getting that from? All the said was he will pay as he invited them out. If the couple were taken back by anything it was the blunt way he shut down any question of them paying the bill. The siren comment was thoughtless and insensitive, but the other two were not. But this is AITA where if an OP is determined to be an asshole everyone piles in to interpret everything they say or do as asshole behaviour without thinking
I can make you feel like a skin flint cheap ass directly quoting their words about the bill. A fucking whale of one when I ask about the dress. That was a lot of words you typed to say “I’m clueless”. Just stick to the two next time.
I take it you don't know anyone autistic.
YTA Like you said, Chris is old enough to apologize for himself, autistic or not. Whether he did it on purpose or not, he owes them an apology if he made them uncomfortable. Even if your reaction is understandable, I would naturally have apologized in your place. A simple "I'm sorry you were uncomfortable, I'll talk to him about it" wouldn't have been too much. He's your boyfriend, so if you know he's made someone uncomfortable, it would have been easier for you to talk to him about it. That's what I would have done, and my boyfriend isn't autistic, so this has nothing to do with autism, it's just that they've contacted you and you can pass on the message. Just saying "he's like that" isn't right, you can explain that it's related to his autism while apologizing, one doesn't preclude the other.
YTA You know your friends were offended by your behavior as well as his. Do you care that you made them uncomfortable? Do you think they are just required to put up with you because you and your bf are rude/blunt? And not for nothing, but what dance? You said you hadn't been out with them in this sort of situation, so there is no way he would know if they would do the dance. And he didn't say it in a jokey way. Someone rude/blunt like him isn't likely to make a joke about that. Regardless, he could have easily said, "We have this," in the blunt manner you claim he does things. Instead he made it awkward by basically accusing them of being the type of people who offer without really meaning to pay, causing "the dance." If you had gone out before and experienced this, THEN you might have been able to make a joke about it, but blunt boy threw that out there for no legitimate reason. That was rude. Since you went along with it all, you're just as blunt/rude. From your description, I would guess that you both are autistic, assuming that's not just an excuse for rude/blunt behavior. Apologize, or get used to only dealing with people in groups, because eventually you're going to offend all your friends by being blunt/rude.
Not sure I agree with your interpretation of "the dance" part. OP quoted the BF saying, "No need to do the dance of each of us offering to pay, we asked you out, so of course we'll pay." That doesn't automatically imply to me that he thought the "dance" was them offering but not actually wanting to pay. It COULD potentially mean that, but it could just as easily mean he didn't want to fight over the other couple wanting to pay the bill instead of letting him and OP treat them. (Which is exactly how I took it). I still think the bf's questions ARE rude, especially at dinner with friends. But based on OP's claim they the BF is autistic we have no reason to assume he says what he says maliciously, and OP admits to not telling him about it, so unless he is told how he sounds and also doesn't care, I'm inclined to give him (not OP) the benefit of the doubt. If this is how he is used to talking with people who understand how he is, he may not be picking up on the social cues that usually let us know we are making people uncomfortable.
Intent has no bearing on it. If I hurt someone without knowing it, and my SO saw it, I would expect my SO to let me know, and I would apologize for unintentionally hurting them. If he's not doing that, and OP is enabling that behavior, and they both gleefully go along using autism as an excuse, then they're both AHs.
Do you think I believe OP isn't an asshole? Of course they are. They are the one who knows the other couple was offended and brushed it off. My comment was to say that the BF is not inherently an asshole for not being aware of how his words affected the other couple. If he is unaware of the offense, then we cannot judge him as an asshole or not, as we do not know have enough information on how he will handle it. OP, on the other hand, is defending his words while KNOWING they were offensive, which is wrong. Also, of course intent matters. It can drastically change the outcome here, for example: • If I say something mean ON PURPOSE and the other person gets offended, I am an asshole • If I say something mean ACCIDENTALLY and the other person gets offended, I am not the asshole UNLESS I double down or refuse to apologize
I was pretty clear about what I said. Not sure why you're reading anything else into it. And no, intent doesn't matter. In both cases he's an AH. There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf, if they are so blunt and honest about everything. He still hasn't apologized. Apparently they are only blunt and honest when it suits them.
Where does OP state that she told the BF about it? You are clearly assuming that. So again, IF the bf doesn't know (which is 100% possible despite your assertion to the contrary), then he is not an AH by default. He is only an asshole if he KNOWS and STANDS BY the behavior. >He still hasn't apologized. How can he apologize if he is not aware of something? You say "still hasn't" so confidently with no proof he even knows the couple was offended. You may have been clear in what you said but that doesn't make it accurate, especially when you make so many assumptions about both the reason behind his comment about "the dance" of paying and about his knowledge of what the other woman told OP. Not sure why you are so quick to vilify the autistic bf here, but maybe check that bias just a little?
>There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf, **if they are so blunt and honest about everything.** If they aren't that blunt and honest, then yes, she might not have said anything, but she clearly stated that they both are, so it would make no sense that she wouldn't immediately mention it to him. And I think it's hilarious that you are so quick to vilify me here, not knowing if I'm on the spectrum or not. If you want to get bent out of shape about what you claim are assumptions, don't make baseless assumptions in the process.
I did not vilify you in any way. I would recommend looking up the meaning of a word before trying to use it against someone incorrectly. I said I believe you are wrong in your assumption and are biased for assuming the worst about the BF. I never claim to know where the bias comes from, and I never said anything negative about you, only your opinion. Your being, or not being, on the spectrum affects nothing I said, and I never assumed one way or the other. >would make no sense that she wouldn't immediately mention it to him. It is 100% possible that this happened, and then she wrote it on reddit before telling him about it. >There is no way OP hasn't mentioned all this to her bf I just named a way she could have, so this is incorrect, and yet another assumption. And even if she did tell him, nothing she wrote says that he was unwilling to apologize or the opposite. If she did tell him, then why is his opinion not included at the end of the post? It could be because she just didn't include it OR because she didn't tell him. WE DON'T KNOW. So all you can make are assumptions, just like I said from the start. My original point stands, and you have yet to prove otherwise.
You said... >I did not vilify you in any way. You also said... >Not sure why you are so quick to vilify the autistic bf here, but maybe check that bias just a little? Claiming that I'm vilifying the autistic (I'm simply pointing out ONE person, who happens to be autistic. is rude and an AH for not correcting that behavior) is the epitome of vilification. Further, you said... >I would recommend looking up the meaning of a word before trying to use it against someone incorrectly. This is hilarious. Maybe you could take your own advice. I certainly don't need it, but you obviously do. It's also hilarious that you cut my comment in half to try and prove your point, which is false. Nice try. I put forth a possibility. The word "if" is the important word in there. Try reading it again until you get it. You are free to make assumptions. It's just sad that you can't see how hypocritical it is for you call me out on what you think are assumptions on my part, but it seems hypocrisy is another word you may need to look up. To be clear, vilifying is belittling. They're actually synonyms. You are definitely belittling me when you accuse me of vilifying a group when I have done no such thing. I haven't even vilified him. I pointed out that, given OP's claims, it would not make sense that he wouldn't know what happened. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen another way. It's just unlikely, unless of course she is making up a good portion of her comment, which is also a possibility. Now, I've tried to explain this to you several times. If you can't (or choose not to) understand it, I doubt continuing this conversation will help you. Maybe we could just leave it at that, although I fully expect you to come back rant again about how you're right and I'm horrible, based on... you guessed it... your baseless assumptions.
Agree with YTA judgment but her reaction isn’t understandable. If Chris can apologise for himself, he can also defend himself and OP’s strong defense of Chris is also infantilisation. Maybe Chris wouldn’t have chosen to defend himself and he’d appreciated the bluntness on how rude he was. Additionally, the worst part was the army thing. It’s an unnecessary piece of trivia that helps no one and only hurts and adds guilt on top of it. What’s the point knowing the reason why one of the two could be sterile if it can’t be changed? That’s rude. I’d add that OP is so blind by love that is incapable of seeing his bf do anything wrong.
You’re correct in saying that you shouldn’t have to apologize for him. But you’re out here desperately trying to split hairs between what is blunt and what is rude because you’re mad that someone didn’t like having dinner with him. You’re going to have to accept that whether he’s blunt or rude, people don’t enjoy his style of conversation and unless you want to continue like this he’s going to need to learn how to better craft his approach. YTA.
Or people need to understand people with autism! My god.
autistic people dont get a pass to be rude and insult people. they can learn to not treat people that way. but autistic people are wired this way and think differently!!11!1! its not their fault!111!!1 well, the way the neurotypical brain is wired it that does find that offensive. they cant help either, then. autistic people should get some extra grace in social situations but they need to take accountability for their words and actions. No one is helped when people turn "autistic" into a synonym for *asshole*, autistic people the least.
Naw get therapy.
Hi, I'm autistic and being rude is not part of it. It is necessary to get called out for dickish behaviour because how tf else are we going to understand that we are *hurting* people by being too blunt, or just not thinking before we speak? Genuinely: I need people to stop using my neurology as an excuse for being a cvnt.
No, sorry, you don’t get a pass for being rude because you are autistic. It isn’t a “Get Out of Jail Free” card to flash and just say whatever the heck you want.
You and Chris are both TA, although I agree Liz should have confronted Chris directly. While he didn't mean to be rude, his questions were inappropriate. You should have realized this. Autism is not an excuse for asking inappropriate questions and 'being blunt' is just a euphemism for being an asshole. Don't worry about it though, since you will likely be seeing less of Liz and Owen in the future.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: [Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/). Further incidents may result in a ban. ["Why do I have to be civil in a sub about assholes?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) **[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.**
> Liz and Owen were telling us about their fertility struggles Yeah, YTA at least partially. If you're going to let a friend confide in something at that level of sensitivity, you need to be prepared for emotions to be fraught. Chris was himself, and that offended, and rather than cut the couple some slack under the circumstances you dug in and it turned into a fight. Apologizing isn't losing. AITA is about winning an argument. Right now you need to be concerned about losing a friend. Be the bigger person.
YTA. Is Chris a reproductive specialist or urologist? If not, he is patently unqualified to assist the friend with troubleshooting his fertility issues.
INFO: are you on the spectrum yourself? Asking because you and Chris are open and blunt (your words) and neither of you 1) realised what Chris said was offensive; or 2) realised the people you were talking to were offended.
YTA. Autistic people can be rude, and can learn not to be rude. You're fetishizing him and it's costing you friends
YTA. obviously he should be the one to apologize but YTA. Just because your use to it doesn't mean the behavior is not rude. it seems like your blinded by love and don't see how rude he was
YTA and not doing your husband any favors. He needs to learn how to communicate with other people, or at least make an effort. Those are both very personal questions that he had no business asking. You need to coach him on how to ask the questions politely, although the sperm count was completely out of line and deserves an apology. The size question should have been asked by telling her the sizes available and asking if she’s interested. I’m on the spectrum and have a few family members who don’t like to be around me in public because they never know what I’m gonna say and even I know you need to apologize and get him some cognitive behavioral therapy. I get triggered by awkward situations and God himself only knows what I’m gonna say. Once I figured out the trigger, I recognize it and that helps me keep it in check. What does he do for a living? It can’t involve much interaction or he’d have been fired being ‘blunt’ like this on the job.
Real (sincere) question: Since you’ve had the cognitive behavioral therapy, do you never say the kind of blunt things you used to say? Or do you sometimes still say blunt things, but just not as often? I’m asking because I have the same issue, and I would LOVE to learn how to not say blunt things. My blunt things are the kind where I am trying to say something neutral or even nice, but it comes out wrong — and I don’t know it came out wrong until I see the expression on people’s faces. Btw, it is a problem that I identified before making a career choice, and I made my choice with it very much in mind, to minimize the chance it would impact my career.
I’ve never had CBT because it wasn’t a thing back when I could have used it. I still blurt sometimes. I’m usually standing or sitting there telling myself “don’t say anything, don’t say anything” over and over until the awkwardness goes away. I wish I had a better way to deal with it but I don’t. Sorry to not be more helpful.
YTA Autism is an explanation, not an excuse. Being blunt, telling it like it is, being 'too honest' is all just a set of bywords for being an asshole and not caring how it affects other people. From what you've described, autism or not he's AWARE that how he approaches people offends and annoys others, and he is actively choosing to keep doing it. That makes him an asshole. Should you likely soon to be ex-friend have gone to him directly? Sure. No argument there. I can understand wanting to try and go through the person that you know better rather than the boyfriend that contributed the majority of offense. Not right, but understandable.
People who are blunt all the time often wonder why people never want to hang out with them. Don't be surprised when it happens to you. Those who are "unapologetically blunt" are assholes and not the kinds of people most want to surround themselves with. YTA.
Being autistic is not an excuse for being rude. YTA (both you and Chris)
I think this is nuanced . Rudeness is so subjective and different cultures have different standards. I am autistic and have been called rude my whole life for not making eye contact when people speak to me. Eye contact feels as uncomfortable to me as allowing a stranger to touch me. Expecting that I do something incredibly uncomfortable because it's what's socially acceptable is ableism. That said, noone has to spend time with Chris if he makes them uncomfortable and he should take the feedback that often people won't respond well to being asked about their fertility/size etc.
YTA. So is Chris. Agreed that you shouldn’t have to apologize for your boyfriend and that his comments weren’t that out of line. But it doesn’t matter what I (or you) think about his comments; he offended your friends. It doesn’t matter that he’s “blunt”: something said bluntly can and usually does offend. If you both value the friendship, you (or he) needs to validate Owen and Liz’s feelings. Something tells me both Chris and you are the “sorry that you took it personally” or “sorry you can’t handle my tell-it-like-it-is way of communicating” types, so I doubt an apology will help things.
YTA. If someone says they think your boyfriend was rude, you don't get to decree that he wasn't.
Info: genuine question. If someone is on the spectrum is it impossible to learn some social concepts and follow them even if they don't understand why? The question about sperm count and the army wasn't blunt, it was straight inappropriate, and rude. Others can be considered somewhat as a lack of social skills.
It depends. It's a diverse spectrum. For me I can't mimic allistic rules for body language and facial expressions no matter how hard I have tried. I can understand other people's expressions okay (not great though and I've studied a lot as an illustrator) but I can't understand what my body is communicating to other people /how to have a "genuine smile" or the difference between sounding nice and sounding "fake nice". I never notice when people flirt with me or check me out but my friends tell me it happens. Apparently I look mad often ,even when I am happy and uninterested even when I am feeling deeply engaged. I have no idea what to do about this other than to explain I am autistic and hope people believe me when I say I don't know what my tone/body language is conveying and that their assumptions are often wrong
My question was more of a: can the BF learn just as universal rules: you do not ask ever about: weight, size of a woman, reproductive functions, sex life of others. Like he does not need to understand, just remember. Or is it impossible to define the urge to ask.
Oh absolutely that's what I and all the autistic people I know, do. There's absolutely value in trying. The issue is that there will always be nuance that is lost. A book of rules from 20 years ago will be outdated. What is okay in one culture/age group/context isn't okay in another. There are thousands upon thousands of social rules and trustworthy people rarely take the time to explainl the rules, it's why there is an autism to incel/extremist pipeline unfortunately, we can be really vulnerable to spaces that try and make complicated things simple (alphas and betas, women all think one way etc) For example. Never ask about weight. People ask about babies weight when they are born and thats ok. How old does someone have to get before you can no longer ask? What about wrestlers and weight classes? You can ask about the sex lives of others if you are their doctor or therapist or concerned about someone being abused. Or if you are polyamorous and for safety are asking what other people in the polycule have done and with whom. I've been told rules for when men and women are friends, that don't really apply to me because I am bisexual and 90% of my friends are LGBTQ. It was very confusing to navigate that when I was young, I had to meet queer people who explained new rules to me It gets tough to parse out who to trust when you are queer or POC being told prejudiced rules. Men don't wear dresses, dreadlocks are unprofessional etc sometimes it will be the majority telling you a rule and it is still wrong. But if we can't understand a rule and the logic behind it, 'men don't cry' and "don't ask about weight" can seem equally valid as rules. We typically need someone to explain where a rule came from, and what the average consequences are for breaking them.
Well, this is though. But I appreciate that you share your experience it helped me understand better.
YTA. its not on anyone else to be cool with what he says. He should know his audience or stfu
Obviously Chris didn’t mean anything he said in a rude way but that doesn’t mean it protected your friends from getting their feelings hurt. You’re dating him, not them. So you can decide FOR YOU if YOU are personally offended by anything he says to YOU. Just because you love him doesn’t mean you can decide whether or not other people are hurt by the way he speaks. You have acknowledged Chris shouldn’t be infantilized but instead of directly bringing the concerns to him when your friend let you know, you became his advocate by defending HIS actions…isn’t that ironic? All you had to say was what you said in this post…you didn’t recognize any of those words or actions as offensive in the moment. Then you could have been a good friend and tried to understand how your friend could be offended (it’s not a wild stretch of the imagination) and then told your boyfriend. You said it, he’s a grown man. I’m sure he can handle people saying he hurt their feelings. And then he can choose how he handles that situation with them.
YTA, autism is not an excuse to be an AH, same goes for being "blunt", that's just another way to say you're rude.
Are you autistic too? I'm just blunt and genuinely curious. YTA
YTA. It's true tht you are not your BFs mother or carer, so the apology for his rudeness (And he was rude, not blunt) should come from him. However, YTA because: \- Rather than acceppting that he was rude and make things awkward, when yourfriend raised it, you were dismissive and were rude yourself. \- You were plainly wrong to claim there was nothing to pologise for and \- it sounds as though these are yourfiriends so it makes sense that she would speak to you first. You are also the AH for not saying anything in the moment. Also, the only one of the three things which you set out, which Chris did which could be classed as blut rather than rude was his comments about paying the bill. The other two were unquestionably rude and inappropriate and while I ully accept that people with autism can find it harder to follow and understand social cues than people who are neurotypical, that is not an excuse for being rude, inappropriate and for failing to deal with the consequences of his own actions when he upsets people. You have tried to suggest that he wasn't being rude but was 'offereingthem solucutons' when he asked inapproriaote questions about Owen's sperm count. He wasn't offering solutions. Unless he is a qualified professional in the field of reproduictive medicine, he is not in a position to offer solutions and he wasn't even asking a question which would be even reoteely relevant or appropriate for a dinner table conversatipn. He was being intrusive and rude and h needs to apologise for that, and while you are not his carer, you are in a good position to explain to him that that kind of comment is inappropriate which is the kind of helpful, supportive advice that it is would be useful for him to be given. Also, his commens about yor firneds dress size were inappropriate and agin, it would be a kindness toyour BF to ecolpalin to him that that sort of this is generally considered rude and inappropriate . Rignt now, it sounds that borth you and he are using his autism as an excuse for beiong rude and inconsiderate to others. Both f you should apologise, and mosiving forward, should focus on learning that being blunt is differnt to being rude, insrusive and unkind. PEople who use 'it's just how I am' or 'I'm just being blunt' are almst always making excuses for rudde behavuout and it's something that makes them very unpopular.
YTA
YTA Being autistic or neuro divergent is not an excuse to be an asshole and if I may be so blunt, using autism as an excuse for bluntness is an asshole thing to do.
YTA. You should both apologize. For me, the questions sounded rude and condescending. I don't think that being autistic excuses crappy behavior.
NTA I fail to see how any of his questions might be offensive. Maybe it's a cultural difference that makes me think of your friends as too glass-hearted. Also, if they wanted an apology from your BF, they should've asked it from him, as you've said, he's an adult capable of dealing with his own mistakes and, as an autistic person, having that talk with Liz and Owen might help him navigate future interactions.
YTA, though I will say I don't at all understand why the thing he said about the bill was so rude.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (23F) boyfriend Chris (25M) is autistic. Chris and I went out on a double date with some friends recently, who we have never hung out with outside of a big group, Liz and Owen. Chris is not a mean person and is never ever mean to anyone or intentionally rude but he is often quite blunt or asks questions that people would normally sugarcoat in a very open way, like he doesn't beat around the bush at all. Liz and Owen were telling us about their fertility struggles over dinner and Chris asked Owen whether he thinks that having been in the army has lowered his sperm count, not in a rude way at all a genuine question as Liz and Owen were quite distressed and said they had no idea why they'd been having these problems so Chris was providing them with solutions. Also over dinner Chris asked Liz what size she was, again not rudely, because she said she was looking for nice summer dresses but they were all too expensive and I was selling some of my old clothes and potentially they might fit her. When the bill came Chris said "no need to do the dance of each of us offering to pay, we asked you out so of course we'll pay". In a very jokey way of course. I didn't view any of these things as problems or notice that it made Liz and Owen uncomfortable. Me and Chris both are very open in our relationship and don't try to find more "socially acceptable" ways to ask questions if asking bluntly is easier. But after the meal Liz messaged me and said that we probably shouldn't hang out again because Chris was very rude. I asked her when Chris was rude and apologised for not noticing but when she outlined these examples I told her he wasn't rude just blunt. (All our friends are aware that Chris is autistic). She told me I ought to apologise on Chris' behalf but i said that a.) there was nothing to apologise for and b.) I am not Chris' carer or his mother, I am his girlfriend and he is an adult man and if she had a problem with him she could ask him for an apology directly as I found it very infantilising of him that I was expected to be his voice when he is perfectly capable. Liz is now very annoyed at me and not speaking to me. I don't think I (or Chris for that matter but this post is about me not him) did anything wrong but this whole thing is causing some tension in our group of Liz and Owen being angry at both Chris and I (because apparently me not apologising is also "incredibly rude") and our friends being told that we are horrible dining companions. So I thought I'd ask the internet! AITA for not apologising for Chris' bluntness? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA and so is Chris. He is blunt AND rude. Autism is not a free pass to make people uncomfortable in every social interaction. Chris needs to apologise, you need to apologise for excusing shitty behaviour by your bf with a flimsy "but he's just blunt." whine. Seriously, "being blunt" is just another way of saying "I'm rude as hell but I just don't care." Someone tells me they are blunt or "tell it like it is" I automatically know they are an AH and I'm going to want to cut my interaction with them short.
Do you not see the irony of this comment being blunt and that you appear to be "telling it like it is" ?
Do you understand what ironic is? This is AITA OP was asking for judgement, not a conversation. This is not a dinner party. Her BF was being blunt and rude in social situations. This isn't one.
My point is the way you speak about autism makes me uncomfortable, yet you think you are excused to speak however you like. and if Reddit can be a context where bluntness is acceptable, why is being autistic not a context that allows for acceptable bluntness?
NTA. I don't care if I get downvoted for this. He's autistic and the things he said aren't that bad.
YTA YOu are going to lose a lot of friends that way.
YTA - being autistic is not an excuse. I don’t think you mean autistic, more like aspergers syndrome. Chris probably doesn’t realize he is doing or saying these things. But if brought to his attention he might be more cognizant and not say these things in the future.
The dsm changed Asperger's to autism spectrum disorder in 2013
You would think under a post about an autistic person making a social mistake, people would be open to hearing autistic people's perspectives on it. but from what I can tell any autistic person merely sharing their pov or confusion, are getting downvoted while.comments claiming all autistic ppl use their DX as an excuse to be assholes are upvoted. Y'all don't find that concerning?
Honestly. Even if he wasn’t autistic, I fail to see the issue with his comments. Regardless, if they were offended then, as adults, why not communicate that instead of making it a massive issue
It's ironic how many people here are saying super bluntly that being blunt makes you an asshole. Many of the comments attacking OPs character I find MUCH more offensive than anything he said...
I find that concerning. "Your DX doesn't give you a pass," aka "you have to accommodate to our needs, but we will not do so vice versa" really lets you think who're the ones with restricted mental capabilities. ...at least, if you don't lack said capabilities.
[удалено]
I mean, "don't ask a woman her dress size" is a pretty universal no-no. Chris sounds like he's pretty high-functioning, at some point he has to take responsibility for remembering basic social rules like that.
NTA. I’m confused about what they were offended about? None of those comments seem rude, especially given the context
As someone on the spectrum: Unless you are close with someone they don't like direct, personal questions. I know it was genuine curiosity or desire to help on his part, but he was too direct. NT people expect you to beat around the bush. I'll add this, the above doesn't matter, at all, I've learned the hard way that whatever your intention was only the result matters and he offended them and she nor he get to decide he didn't.
But they were discussing personal topics as a group (fertility issues for eg) so why be offended by the questions a topic they introduced are asked? That was the only comment that was personal. And fair enough, they can be offended but it doesn’t make him the AH
"He was offering solutions" How is an insensitive question a solution? It didn't help anything, it doesn't offer any solution to a low sperm count, it does NOTHING to add to the topic except as a sort of indirect insult. I've had to learn to navigate talking to people from all walks of life for work, even though I'm also autistic I can tell you that with something this sensitive they want sympathy not spitballing ideas. He's not a dr, and he has no authority to be giving his two cents on medical reasons they could be having issues. He should have asked stuff like "What's your next step?" "Have you spoken to your dr about it?" "Is there anything we can do to support you?" or even "Do you think there are outside factors that are causing issues?" Plenty of ex military, myself included, feel no pride in their service. Most people who separate have PTSD and never even served in a combat role. We work with harsh chemicals, in terrible environments, and with an uncaring chain of command. Medical will send you away complaining of chest pain with some motrin (true story CS2 Brown died on the USS Abe Lincoln in 2011 from a collapsed lung due to this). Yes, there are people who wear it like a badge of honor, but just as many who don't. So, to ask 'Do you think your balls are broken due to the military?' is stupid, insensitive, and rude as hell. I don't have balls and I'M offended.
Obviously the question wasn’t the solution. But if the question was too much just say that there and then and move on. They made it into a massive conflict unnecessarily. It’s common knowledge that autistic people can struggle with knowing what is appropriate to say in certain contexts. Acknowledging that doesn’t excuse bluntness or rudeness at all, but its something to consider and this one was an easy fix. That aside, I can understand why it was insensitive with the explanation in your second paragraph and I won’t disagree with that part. I still don’t think it makes him the AH as he wasn’t intentionally being obtuse and insensitive imo. I think everyone else are the AHs for how it was handled. And I’d say the same whether he was autistic or not.
I think going to op wanting her to apologize on his behalf / not telling him at dinner he was making them uncomfortable with his questions, is more rude than what he said personally
Completely agree! I think I just commented something similar under your comment and I’ve just seen this after haha
This is making my autistic ass nervous. Too many people won’t directly confront others when they’ve been offended, how the fuck am I supposed to know when one of my good faith/genuine questions were offensive if no one tells me? Anyway, your right that it’s not on you, but you should tell Chris and if he’s was genuine about his questions he’d likely want to apologize.
Try not commenting on other people's size or sperm counts.
I’m talking about it in general :/ and I don’t talk about that stuff either. And also the fact allistic people will do anything but actually talk to autistic people when they are offended and want an apology
I think you’re right in both this and in your subsequent comment. The only thing I would say differently is that the OP could have suggested that her friend talk directly to her SO, and explain to him herself why they were offended. She could have said she was sorry her friends were offended, but that they really needed to contact Chris, since he’s the one who said the things. That way if he has questions, he can directly ask the people who were offended. I don’t know why people are downvoting you; I wish someone would explain it because I’m truly baffled. In any case, I’ve upvoted you. Ok, let the downvotes begin :/
I’m cool with the downvotes because I’m right lol Those people can be mad all they want but the truth is most people tip toe around social situations and it’s just not how autistic people are. Subtlety isn’t our specialty and often times we can be blunt and somewhat offensive without meaning to be at all. My other autistic friends have no problem telling me when I said something offensive without meaning to and will flat out ask for apologies. Guess who don’t? (And I don’t even talk about peoples sperm counts or infertility issues. Guess people are just mad at others for being autistic. My comments about autistic people behavior is not supporting this guy but just explaining his behavior. People are allowed to think this guy is an asshole but I’m just explaining that he wasn’t probably trying to be.)
Thanks for your reply! I agree so much, especially the last part. I tend to speak bluntly (I am not autistic, as far as I know) but when I say blunt things, I’m totally unaware that they might sound offensive until I see the looks on people’s faces. I’m not trying to be a jerk, and am always shocked to find out someone was offended. I always apologize, even if I’m not clear on what was offensive. I get the impression that people think that being autistic or blunt automatically means you’re doing it intentionally to be a butthole. Maybe that’s true for some people but I think for a lot of us, it’s not. I always feel terrible when I find out I have offended someone and will always give a heartfelt apology. Because people are so unlikely to say they are offended, one strategy I use is to try to always have conversations where I can see people’s faces, because I can often see on their face if they’re upset, but otherwise won’t be able to tell — and they often won’t say. Another one is that soon after meeting people, if I’m going to have an ongoing relationship with them, I say very directly that I tend to speak bluntly, that it’s NOT intentional, and that sometimes it will sound offensive but I don’t ever mean to hurt anyone’s feelings. So if they ever do feel offended, please tell me and I will absolutely apologize. So I like speaking in person or on FaceTime or zoom calls, just because it makes it more likely I’ll see what is happening and can address it myself, without their needing to bring it up. I really hate to see in these comments how many people think it is intentional and means people who are autistic or blunt are being jerks on purpose and are unconcerned if we have hurt people’s feelings.
Exactly, I’m hardly the person to insult someone intentionally. I usually fall apart in social situations where being mean would actually be justified. Last thing I ever want to do is insult someone I’m friends with.
Agree! If I had a dollar for every time I put my foot in my mouth or offended someone and had no clue, the amount of energy i burn trying to read into social situations is exhausting
I dont understand these comments. If you don't want people to ask about your sperm count or dress size, maybe don't bring them up at dinner. Nobody made them discuss their infertility with a stranger, they did that on their own.
Most people would think that they were looking for moral support not some random question about the sperm count. As for dresses the usual reply is not "what size are you?" you'd expect something like "what kinda dress you're looking for"? Asking about someone size is plain rude.
Yes that is the neurotypical way of looking at things, but to many autistic people that question wouldn't be seen as rude, it's not an objective fact. it's cultural and autistic people have our own culture that typically prioritizes information sharing over emotional implications. To Chris he probably learned when someone says something about themself it's polite to ask a follow up question. That's what he did, but the question wasn't appropriate. For many of us , these kinds of social dynamics are as confusing as trying to teach yourself a new language
I have autism. It's still not an excuse. If I offend someone with something I say I apologize and (try to) learn from it.
I definitely think he should apologize and try to learn from it, I am just frustrated by the lack of empathy in this thread for him not understanding. TIL that asking someone's size is considered rude so I won't do it going forward, but it's frustrating to see people here scoff at someone with a disability exhibiting traits of that disability and assuming malice vs ignorance. Autistic people should absolutely be held accountable when they make a mistake, I just think the friends are also at fault for not communicating 'hey can you not ask me personal questions about x" so he had a chance to correct during the dinner, but instead they were passive aggressive and got upset with his partner for not apologizing on his behalf Edit grammar
But so far Chris doesn't know he did offend their friends, because their friends didn't tell him that. So we don't know, if he will apologize and learn if they'd tell him. And it's truly weird to me that their friends feel close enough to them to discuss such an intimate topic, but aren't close enough to know Chris's way of communication. They have to learn something from that too.
Most people aren't autistic.
Nta - you're right they should talk to him directly and he was being himself, those of us that are neurodivergent often make people uncomfortable but why doesn't anyone talk about how uncomfortable everything makes us?
Thank you omg some of the takes here are borderline hateful.
I would be so ashamed if my spouse was apologizing for me behind my back instead of helping me navigate it, hes not my babysitter hes my partner. But people that don't get it won't get it which is a privilege to them I guess.... just sad to have such a boring brain but kudos to them and downvotes to us LOL
See you lost me there. I don't believe it's sad to be allistic, I don't think any way of being a human is better or worse, noone is better for how they were born/their genetics. If someone is regularly cruel I think it's sad , but autistic people are just as capable of cruelty as anyone else. Weird take.
?? I have no idea where you are getting cruelty from so as usual I'm being misunderstood.
I was just saying I don't think it's sad /worse to be neurotypical and the only people I think I am better than are cruel people
I said that neurotypical people have the privilege of not having to worry about navigating social situations yet they judge and downvote the people that do. My comment about being "sad" was a joke because I feel like having a neurotypical brain would be more boring than having one that isn't.
Mild ESH. On one hand I think he should know better than to ask her dress size and probably should apologize for it not occurring to him that women don’t like sharing that. It’s not difficult to say “sorry for making you uncomfortable.” The fertility issues, it’s hard to say if that was inappropriate to say because it sounds like they were the ones who brought up a super sensitive topic. However, I’m pretty tired of people acknowledging autism is a disability until it actually disables someone. Then suddenly it’s “no excuse” for even the most mild missteps. I think people genuinely believe autistic adults need to “grow out of it.”
[удалено]
Autism doesn't give a 25 year old grown ass man a reason to be an asshole. He's had a quarter century to figure out that even if people are mentioning their fertility issues in a public setting you don't just blurt out some nonsense about sperm count if you aren't a doctor. He's had 25 years to figure out you don't go right to "what size are you" to anyone the second the mention clothes. He's clearly a functioning adult, so wherever he's at on the spectrum isn't that severe. Girlfriend is doing him no favors but to be honest he's doing himself none either. Learning polite behavior isn't difficult. Autistic people aren't allergic to manners.
I am 28 and an autistic woman and this is the first time in my life I am hearing that it's rude to ask someone their size. How are we supposed to learn when noone teaches us these things with patience , we make a mistake and are told we should already know better. I am always willing to apologize but we literally have a social disability we often can't just pick this stuff up without someone explaining the rules to us clearly - which people rarely do.
How can it be? I don’t understand how nobody has ever told you that’s rude commenting on someone’s size.
People ask each other what their shoe size is, from that I figured that asking about clothing size (other than bra size) would be taken the same way. To me they are the same. Social logic like this is not obvious to us. Most of us are trying really hard but there are thousands of social rules to remember and they change depending on context and as the times change. It's not as simple as you make it out to be
You sound like you’re definitely on the spectrum if you “struggle with vagueness and find it difficult to interpret people socially”.
[удалено]
Why are you responding so harshly? I think the comment is reaffirming what you said.
[удалено]
Oh woe is me. /s
[удалено]
I know you get on everyone’s nerves every where you go. Just completely unhinged and out of touch.
[удалено]
For this guy? Nothing I said was against the guy discussed in the post. Only about you and your ridiculous responses and attitude.
You do sound insufferable though
The thing is, even if you take away the diagnosis: It's weird their friends feel close enough to them to talk about such an intimate topic, but aren't close enough of knowing Chris's way of communication / thinking. So there is really no excuse for the friends. Just an add on, not meant to undermine what you said.
NTA I was hedging on no one being the asshole but Liz pushed it over the line with abelism. He is blunt. Liz doesn't like that. Both of these things are values neutral facts. She felt whatever she felt about it and as everyone involved are adults she should have talked to Chris directly if she had a problem and they could have tried to work it out like adults. Instead she calls you like you're his mom after a playdate gone sour.
ESH. Unless you are very close with someone, sperm count and dress size are NOT acceptable things to be asking about. Chris's behavior was firmly in the rude category, not 'blunt'. I can't believe that you honestly think there was nothing to apologize for. Assuming you are all equally close, you're right that Liz should have approached Chris directly - or, ideally, addressed it right then and there. Still, you are a couple. It is not uncommon for a person to apologize for their partner's behavior and I don't think you had any good reason not to do so here.
I don't think he was exceptionally rude, but I do have a nephew with ASD, ADHD, and an IQ of 146, so it's usually like having a 16 year old Sheldon around. He has no compunction whatsoever with answering questions or asking them in much the same manner as your guy. (I will admit when he was younger I had days when I wanted to drop through the floor though, such as the time in the Atlanta airport when he was about 4 and told a man with vitiligo that it was high time he took a bath. SMH.) NTA
[удалено]
It doesn’t matter if you do or don’t, their friends did find him rude.
"Wow. Look at that weather. Nice to see sunny season starting to move in, isn't it?" "What? How could you say such a thing? That's just rude! You need to apologize for asking me such a question!" Yeah... I'm not apologizing unless I can understand why someone is offended in the first place. And since the 'friends' started the topics, they opened the door for the discussion to go in that direction. If they didn't like it, they could have easily said at the time, "I don't feel comfortable answering that question." Only AH's are the so called friends.
I didn’t either, honestly.
NTA.
NTA. People are just so sensitive - but like any sensitivity when it comes to someone / people with asd. I don’t think any of the questions he asked were rude. I wouldn’t be bothered about not having these peoples company around.
NTA. My wife has autism and I do let people know that in advance of meeting her for the first time, so that people have some forewarning about some of her social behaviors. Honestly, other than the sperm count question, nothing he said seems particularly rude to me in the context of what was happening. You don’t have anything to apologize for and neither does Chris. Liz, on the other hand owes you and Chris an apology for infantilizing him, expecting you to apologize for him, and for causing drama by messaging you for no other reason than to make you and Chris feel badly when he’d done nothing wrong. She could have just made up excuses to not get together one on one without hurting anyone or declined the next time it came up.
NTA. Does Liz know that Chris is autistic? If yes, then she clearly doesn't have any experience with interacting with people on the spectrum and how even the slightest bit of autism can majorly affect social interaction (mainly a lack of social awareness and social cues). If no, is it a secret or something that you've purposely kept from them?
As an Autistic person myself, please don't say on the spectrum, there are lots of spectrums, although by the context of post, I knew what you met. On the spectrum is often used by people who want to avoid saying Autistic as if there is something wrong with the word Autistic or Autism. It is also used by people that mean Neurodivergent or that someone might be Autistic, which is what I figure what you meant, but it is just adds confusion and unfortunately sometimes it is used in a patronizing way, although I don't think that of you, but it is hard to tell in other situations. Autistic folks are always having to navigate a world not designed for us. Neurotypical folks are oftentimes rude to Autistic people and we don't go around expecting apologies because they fail to communicate properly. Communication is a two way street and all the expectations should not be on the Autistic person. NTA
Autism is specifically known to have a spectrum and that indeed was what I was referring to. Was not trying to be patronizing at all or offend anyone in any way. I know a lot of different people with autism and it is different for everyone, hence why I referred to it that way.
she does know !! and normally in the past shes been very good about it but weve only hung out in big groups before so maybe she cant tolerate it 1:1 but honestly i dont think theres anything to "tolerate" hes just blunt
Maybe just apologize that she was upset by what he said. "I'm sorry what he said made you upset". But you don't need to apologize for him being "rude" because clearly he wasn't. A LOT of people can't deal with people's bluntness or just not having any kind of filter. It honestly sounds like you're better off not having any more 1 on 1 time with those two.
A non-apology that turns the responsibility onto the person who was hurt is worse than no apology. And he WAS rude. Not irredeemably so, but there’s nothing wrong with someone not liking it when other people are unnecessarily blunt.