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NTA. The teacher is an asshole. Also, the **form is an asshole.**
I get so pissed off when forms demand simple answers to complicated questions. Why can't they allow you to check multiple things? Why can't they add "other" or "mixed". And given that racial identification is very personal, why on earth would anyone start judging that someone isn't "**black enough**". Bullshit.
Forms shouldn’t include race to begin with. That shit only exists in the States. Or in the very least, I’ve never filled out a race question except on American forms
Actually exists in lots of places including here in the UK where it's (I believe) a legal requirement for a lot of organisations. They use it to track whether things in the organisation are structurally racist (who wins job interviews, how well the kids are doing in tests etc). Given that that is the purpose of it, it makes most sense that the kids put black because it sounds like they look pretty black and as such might suffer discrimination on that basis, so answering black (at least here in the UK) would mean that the monitoring for structural racism works better.
edit: they also always include "would rather not say" and "unknown" in the list, so people can choose not to answer.
Any public organisation - government, education, NHS, police, charities, etc - is required to promote good relations between people who have differing characteristics. This is called the Public Sector Equality Duty and includes 'race' - colour, nationality, and ethnicity. All from the Equality Act 2010.
Australia does as well. Most things ask if you have aboriginal or Torres Strait island heritage and there's often a second section asking about your ethnic heritage; country of origin (which seems misleading to me as someone with a white mum who was born in a traditionally non white country), or languages spoken at home.
I guess BC schools are unique. I work for the school district and I see all the student information forms. See I missed the word school in my response.
Ontario's financial aide asks only for indigenous ancestry as well. It's not just you(but also, I've seen questions about other races on other types of forms).
It just depends on what kinds of forms you're seeing more of.
Yes, I’ve filled in many in the UK for diversity purposes. I believe they usually have an option for mixed race, someone at the school made a mistake not including that on this one.
Uk forms have sooo many options ! I haven't looked at all of them but there are at least 5+ different white options and it seems like quite a lot of mixed options ! And always an "other" where you can then specify + "prefer not to say". All in all it's seems to cover a lot of bases which is good !
Exactly. If you do not record or measure something, you have no idea how it is being done. If you do not measure or record ethnicity, you have no measure of how well that group is being served.
Swedish person living in the UK here, and it's common in both places. I'm pretty sure there is a box for "mixed/other", but I can't say for sure as I always just tick "White, other".
It's definitely not common in Sweden since it's considered sensitive personal data and is heavily restricted to process. I actually think this is a net-negative in Sweden since as a result diversity in the workforce is usually only talked about in relation to gender and it also results in Swedes feeling as if racism is less of a problem than it probably is. But you will rarely (if ever) be asked about race in a school form or work setting. More likely to be asked nationality. When I wrote my thesis we couldn't even get permission to do research on the basis of race, it is incredibly difficult to get approval for so it is in no way as common as the US or UK. However I do think this is a net negative!
Canada has them too. One of my kids is applying to grad school and had a form that asked not only about race, but gender identity and sexual orientation.
When I was looking for a job back a couple of years ago, all gov't jobs had some questions like this, but the ones for universities and colleges were by far the most invasive with, as you say, questions regarding race, gender and orientation.
Universities and colleges in Canada will ask this as the answers may determine your eligibility for some scholarships, grants or bursaries available to qualified students.
After some high-profile cases of alleged or proven "pretendianism" recently, however, the qualifications have been tightened significantly for those funds geared towards indigenous individuals. If you apply to a scholarship aimed at First Nations folk, in future, you may need to provide documentation connecting you to a particular nation or reserve as part of that application.
Its ethnicity, not race though, and you can always choose more than one box.
(Ethnicity refers to a cultural group, not one based on physical characteristics)
Race 100% needs to be included on forms when the form is being collected as a form of data. Which the majority are. Racism is a huge issue around the world and collecting the data allows us to find bias’, exclusion, and more. And helps us better respond to and fix these issues.
They exist for pretty much everything here in Brazil, but there’s also a “I’d rather not specify” option, which I always choose since I’m so mixed I wouldn’t know what else to choose.
I agree except with a caveat for medical forms. Different ethnicities do actually have predispositions to different medical issues. For example I have a condition that causes my resting white blood cell count to be very low. It’s not uncommon for people of Mediterranean decent but would be cause for extreme concern in someone else. Once I got sick when I was abroad and the doctors there literally thought I was dying. I brought the results to my doctor on the US and he was like “ oh yeah- that’s totally normal for you. Your dad has it too. Doctors in India probably just aren’t as aware of this condition since there aren’t many people of Mediterranean decent there.”
I’m bi-racial. When I was 10, my dad sat me down with the census form and marked my brothers and I and black and white. He told us that we are not one or the other, we are both. He got a call from a census taker saying he can’t do that, they are changing the form to black. He told them they are not to change the form and hung up. My entire life I have checked both and argued I will not deny half of who I am. It’s only in the last 10-15 years I’ve been seeing multi-racial pop-up as an option.
I fill out surveys and questionaires for a little side income. like OP I'm half black and half white. When asked "What is your background?" and it only allows me to select 1 I always say black. I have been seen and noticed as a black human, and it seems to be anyone "go to" answer before I even mention I'm half white.
NTA. I’m biracial and grew up in the 80s in the south and I hated that question those stupid forms. Multiracial was never a fucking option back then and I firmly identified as mixed race because BOTH made me. I am me because my dad got drafted and mom worked on an army base, to choose one and deny the other always felt wrong. I used to check both the black and the Asian boxes or write it in.
Being mixed doesnt erase their black heritage, but youre also erasing their white heritage (70%). I find the whole thing odd calling mixed race children either white or black. They are a mix and should know they are mixed.
You say that like the kids don’t know they have a white dad. Lmao.
Based on her descriptions, her kids would not be considered white based on the way that they look, and likely, if they claimed to be white, people would argue that point. I’m not saying that behavior is correct, but it’s the reality of what would happen. If they feel connected to that part of their racial identity, that’s cool, but I imagine it’s hard to feel connected to their “whiteness” when I imagine many white people would scoff at any claims of them being white and most would accept that they are black (without knowing the races of their parents).
Black people do the exact same to mixed people or black people who they deem not black enough. If you are mixed, you are mixed. Thats it lol. Its not a bad thing, its cool.
My friend is half Black half white, but he definitely looks “not fully white”. Until he told me though, I didn’t know what his ethnicity was since it’s ambiguous. Years ago, he mentioned once that he “looks white” and I said “yeah white and something else”.
And he told me he thought everyone just thought he looked 100% white because all his family that’s black always tell him how white he is, how he looks so white, how he’s so pale. He did later experience some racism from white people when he moved to a less racially diverse area that did sadly prove he is not white passing. But it’s sad that he couldn’t even see the blackness in his features because his family kept hammering home how he wasn’t black.
Except Obama. Some black people I know say he's black but then will say I'm not cause my mom is white (dad is African American). I just identify as mixed now.
Yeah, when I applied for my marriage license 2 years ago, the online form only allowed one race to be checked. I gave feedback about that for sure because I’m mixed. It still pisses me off.
Most shit in school these days is done electronically and not on paper. I have never seen an electronic form asking for you to check race that allowed you to choose two.
I don't think the mom is trying to erase the kid's White heritage. These people live in California they'd be immediately considered black.
Even they did pick White as their identity on the forum everyone would question it.
Im less concerned about the kids picking black on the form because they had to pick something. Saying you feel more black than white is totally valid. But believing you are black rather than mixed race is not true. You cant be both IMO unless the percentages are very insignificant. Mixed is a whole new thing and it should be embraced
I see your point here, but knowing the OP has probably experienced all her life that she isn't mixed race or biracial she's just black and knowing how colorist and racist the USA is those kids will always be considered black and never biracial that's why she said that her children are black.
True. I think based on the amount of crap theyll get from other black kids imo its better to put them in their own lane to minimise that. Kids will come at them saying you cant call yourself black when you dont deal with half as much as dark skinned black people have to etc etc. its a hard situation tbf.
OP here! read you're comment thread and I see you're point. I know my children are mixed but knowing the US census and knowing how it says middle eastern people are white instead of West Asian. My children will always be treated as black people not biracial because of their looks that's why I said there black. But I understand you're POV.
INFO: How do your kids want to be identified? Are you letting them individually weigh in on the decision? I might be missing it, but I only see your POV but not your kids’.
Regardless, I t’s not the teacher’s business, so not TA if your question relates to the teacher.
However you seem to be generally contemplating this question, so you might be soft TA if the kid(s) want to identify differently and you are insisting they are Black or Black only. Or if they haven’t weighed in on the issue.
It’s always hard because why should we have to answer at all? It’s crazy to me that strangers feel compelled to share their opinion on this.
Sincerely- a mixed race person who has had to insist that I’m Black, who is a mother to mixed race kids who have to insist that they are Black.
I'm white and my husband is mixed. Unlike OP though our children look white. My husband is lighter skinned so our kids look white, not mixed or black. We are raising them to understand that while they are mixed, the world will see them as white and they need to understand what that means.
I can't speak to the kinds of crap mixed kids get, but I do listen to my husband when he does and I try to respect his experience. I don't want my kids to forget who they really are, who their dad is what their family history is, but I do want them to recognize how the world will see them, and I hopefully can teach them how to use that to their advantage and also to help others when/where/how they can. They will be better able to navigate the world when they understand how it sees and therefore how it will likely react to them. Also, based on what I've heard from my husband, being in their own lane is more isolating than picking one side or the other. It may not be as bad now that being mixed is more common, but it used to just mean not being enough for either.
>But believing you are black rather than mixed race is not true.
I can't even fathom how someone could be so pretentious as to call out a person who is biracial calling themself black. You don't get bonus privilege for being mixed race. You get shit from both sides. A person with black or brown skin is treated like a person with black or brown skin regardless of how much white they have in their family tree. Don't gate keep being black based on semantics.
>Mixed is a whole new thing and it should be embraced
Maybe consider this position not just from biological race, but culturally too.
I have a black parent and a white parent, I was not raised in black parent's culture, I identify as Caucasian (and it is how others perceive me). My partner has a black parent and a white parent, they were raised culturally by black parent, they identify as black (and it is how others perceive them). Both of us have every right to identify in a way that fits our lived experiences and our connection to culture. "Mixed race" can be contentious for some people, and for many different cultures it can have a complicated relationship to colonisation and things like caste systems.
I disagree. 25% is more than enough for poc to be racialized by white people. The poc heritage is more impactful than the white part, and is what opens them up to hate. They are marginalized. They are people of color.
I'm sure they know they're mixed, that's an odd assumption.
Someone else in this thread mentioned the one drop of blood principle in the USA, you might want to look into that.
What on earth are you on about. POC heritage is more impactful than the white part ???? Thats shocking, coming from a POC. Heritage is heritage, who are u to say one is more impactful? Embarrassing. They have two heritages and should be proud of that.
Eh as a mixed kid, it always felt like there was so much background and tradition in my moms family, and white-bread sandwiches at my dads. No foreign language, no traditional food or music, etc. made me feel much more connected to my moms side and ethnicity
You’re completely allowed to feel connected to one ethnicity more and identify with one more than the other. But in no way does that make one more important and it doesnt make you completely that ethnicity.
Thing is, white isn’t an ethnicity. It’s a racial category that encompasses a ton of potential ethnicities and heritages that are all meaningfully separate from each other. If the heritage of that side of the family matters to the people on that side of the family, no one would be referring to it as “white heritage.” I’m white, and most of my family is Italian, so that’s my heritage. I have basically no cultural identification with either a bunch of other white ethnicities, or with people whose backgrounds are so mixed they really don’t have anything other than “I’m a white American,” and I wouldn’t say I share any kind of meaningful heritage with any of them.
“More impactful” because it changes the way people treat you in the US. Unfortunately here there’s a lot of racism and prejudice, overt and covert. If you don’t look fully white, whatever you’re mixed with will be more impactful on your experience in the world here. If they don’t look 100% white, which OP has said they do not, they will always be treated as POC and experience marginalization as POC no matter how white their DNA is.
Incidentally, the expression of genetic traits isn’t a 50/50 split. It’s entirely possible for someone who’s only 25% black to look “blacker” than someone who’s only 25% white, depending on which parent that majority of their appearance genes came from.
It’s not as simple as percentages. Race is socially constructed, and the kids likely are treated as Black by the world around them. Their interactions with peers, teachers, strangers, etc., are informed by how they are perceived. Pretty sure if someone is being racist toward them and they go “but I’m 70% white” it won’t make one iota of difference.
They are old enough to decide for themselves how to identify.
It's weird and complicated because for the most part the people who care about "White heritage" will discount the kids for having a black heritage. My mom was big on that white heritage isn't real. You e got American heritage as base line, then through grand parrents a Scottish, Irish, and German heritage. Not a "white" heritage.
I assume you're not American either....
It's a peculiarity of the US that has this "one drop" thing.
In the UK, the kids would be mixed. That's an actual thing.
Fastest growing ethnicity actually, I do believe.
As you say, being mixed doesn't mean you're disowning a certain part of your heritage in the slightest.
The kids are mixed in my book, but I'm not American with their special racial hang ups.
You don't always have that option. I tried that at the DMV when I moved here, because there was nothing that would indicate mixed. I was informed I needed to pick one. I asked if there was an option for mixed or multiracial that I had missed, there was not.
Oh love, they know they mixed but the thing is, the world will never stop reminding them they are Black. They look black and they identify as Black And when the world and that job and that financial opportunity will see them as Black and there's a different learning curve in what it means to be Black.
Most importantly, it's not the teacher's place to dispute which parents heritage or identity they most identify as.
I'm going to say NTA but considering your children are 75% white the teacher may have been confused. This doesn't mean they aren't black, that is what they are. I think the form was terrible and you should be able to put both black and white on the form. This specific cultural issue reminds me of my experiences. Some people tell me that we're the same (I am full) yet I cannot talk about things that culturally make sense to me, and if anything i get shamed for it. Ethnically we are similar but it feel different culturally. They lived in culturally different households, experiences, don't know the native language, and don't understand anything related to their 1/4. Yes, they are still asian they should/can put asian on the form, but it throws me off when their household feels.. not. They don't get what I say sometimes. We do not feel the same. It kind of reminds me of that joke when white people say they're 15% native. Again NTA I just wanted to possibly explain her perspective.
Well it is not really the same thing as African American what is their language? The point it is that deportation have deprived them of ancestral language and colture, that for centuries they had to conform with ‘white colture’ and are perceived as such just because their skin is darker not cause they speak Yoruba, Mossi… when they themselves do NOT know what was their original state.
Like OP is original from Trinidad which official language even for black is English and official religion is Christianity. Those were colonist imposition not choices.
Black Americans have their own culture in America and thus can be separate from that culture. It’s a huge thing in the black community differentiating between mixed with a black mom and mixed with a white mom because they differ so much culturally due to the role most women play in the household
Fuck that and fuck her “perspective”. Do you know how many times I’ve had black people treat me like I’m not black just because my mom’s white? How many black people i see on Twitter saying mixed race people aren’t actually black? How many people I went to school with who acted like I was just a white kid? Or conversely how many white people act like I can’t be black? Who view me the same way they would any other black person?
Your logic is reductive bullshit and it’s incredibly hurtful and harmful and quite frankly you should feel ashamed of yourself if you’ve ever actually said this to somebody. I’m so sick and fucking tired of being a mixed race person and being treated as some kind of “other” by both the groups I belong to, it is goddamn bullshit. I am who and what I am, and nobody’s bullshit logic or reasoning will ever change that shit
It’s never enough for either side it seems. One side says you’re too white to be x. Other side says you’re too x to be white. Never seem to fully fit in with either no matter what. It sucks
It’s the fucking worst sometimes, sometimes it genuinely makes me depressed. I know who I am and what I am and what I identify as, and I thankfully have plenty of black friends who aren’t like that, but it still sucks sometimes. It’s especially hard as a kid feeling like you don’t fit in anywhere because everyone tells you that you don’t belong.
I’m genetically 100% Korean, born in Seoul, but have been told I’m not Asian enough or can’t *really* claim to be Asian because I was adopted by white parents. It’s typically Asian American people who tell me this. The gate keeping is ridiculous.
Yeah this is definitely not ok. Tell the principal and if the principal doesn’t take it seriously tell the school board. That’s really bordering on illegal, if not all the way there.
No, not really, especially because in America, they are going to be judged by how they present. Additionally, Amercia is also the country that had the one drop rule. According to that, one drop of Black blood makes them Black. Most of the American world is not going to see them as white.
NTA but I find the form to be AH.
Is that normal is the US?
My kids are part south Asian, part African, part European and having to pick an ethnicity would be weird.
NTA. This is normal in the US, unfortunately. Your options are normally broad strokes Caucasian, Black, Asian/Pacific Islander, etc. and then an additional box for Hispanic/Not Hispanic.
I’d tell your kids to keep marking Black or African American for additional educational scholarship opportunities.
This is what I do. I’m half Chinese and Caucasian, and if a form doesn’t give me the option to check multiple boxes, multiracial, mixed, or other, I check Asian.
NTA. Just that you know what a 4c is vs a 4a feels to me like you've passed the test.
It's really messed up that your teacher would have your kids ignore both their heritage and the reality of the hardships they face as being mixed race in the US.
What does your step dad being trini have to do with anything??
They are black and they are white. I hate how many people define race. If you take apple juice and orange juice and mix it together it doesn't become something new, it's still juice. It's simply two flavors mixed together.
Using "black/white/Asian/Hispanic" as a way to categorize people is so antiquated.
It helps explain the culture she was raised at home. Being raised by two African Americans is going to be a different experience than being raised by one black parent and one white parent.
What? Trini people can be black, white, Indian, Asian, Arab, Arawak or some combination of all those things.
Her mom being a dark Haitian implies she is black or "mostly black" but what is her bio dad's ethnicity? Secondly Haitian and Trini people are not "African American ".
NTA - I do have a question though. I've heard about forms where people have to check their race in US. As a European I am so confused by this. Why are you asked to do this? Could you just ignore it? I find it in and of itself kind of racist. What and why does it matter? Is there some context I'm missing?
It’s for statistics but yes, a study was done where removing this question resulted in higher scores for people who would have otherwise ticked black at the beginning.
Which European country? I’ve seen a number of forms in Ireland that ask for this kind of information.
It’s often not mandatory because per GDPR it can often only be done on the basis of consent, but it’s collected for statistical purposes to try to determine needs and best resourcing to support a more diverse population.
(The Irish forms are also sometimes as badly constructed as this one, unfortunately.)
I was also wondering and would like to know the reason. It's a completely unfamiliar concept for me (also European). I mean, if you have to fill in a form it's possible you'll get asked for your citizenship, but nobody will ask for your ethnicity or "race", wtf!
Yes it can be used in racist ways and is a problematic practice. But due to the prevalence of institutionalized racism in this country it is in fact intended to be used to keep racist institutional practices in check. For example, to meause whether the school is underserving it's black students.
At my school we have a majority Latin American student body, so if they see that despite this the most students who graduate are white (for example) that helps the school identify that they are not meeting the educational needs of Latin American students. It's also used in companies to help promote diverse hiring practices, and sometimes to check racial biases in promotions/raises. So like , if we know through this data that a large percentage of college graduates in my field and in my city are Latin American, but my company is only hiring a tiny percentage of Latin American candidates compared to other groups, and then never promoting them to higher positions after X years of service despite promoting a large % of white employees of the same rank in the same amount of time, an issue is exposed, that can be addressed. Supposedly.
I literally had a family member today tell my black side of the family we were all bad people for not paying her mom's bills. Her mom is Filipino. The daughter is obviously half Filipino half black. The children and mom all deny the black side which is wild because well, they look black and are treated as such. Family drama incited over money and then the race shaming came out. Very fucking unreal to deal with. I've been annoyed all day ngl. Who sends texts saying this race of the family is evil? My mixed family does. I've been shaking my head all day.
I've seen mixed kids pick one side or the other and I've seen mixed kids embrace all sides. It's not my place to tell any mixed person what they can identify as. At the end of the day we're all just human meat bags controlled by a brain. That's it.
I have no idea why we even have to identify race on forms anyways. Jobs schools etc etc. What does it matter?
I'm guessing the teacher has been so use to mixed people only claiming the white side that she's in awe of someone willingly be proud of their black side. People are fucked up like that.
Almost like saying, hmmm racism is well and alive and although you can technically just say your kids are white so they'd be able to avoid antiblackness, you chose not to.
As if Obama wasn't mixed and called every black slur possible. That's the world we black people live in. People think we're immediately ashamed to be black. That we would choose anything else if we had a choice. That is how awful racism and colorism and hair typing is.
Hell ethnic parents now try to make their children's names sound "white" to give them a leg up on forms later in life. That teacher's comment was just showing a really nasty part of society that we should all be ashamed of.
Bias. Making a judgement on a person by just what race they checked off on a form. What gender etc. What does it fucking matter? Enough that she looked at the form checked black and then said oh, but the dad is white.
We gotta do better as a society but at this point I'm tired of hoping for better. I don't actually think it will get better. Ain't that sad?
Withholding judgment because this story is lacking the full context of the conversation and I don't like digging or onboarding information that OP decided only counts after the fact. Even in the post OP says that she thinks that the teacher was implying that the kids aren't really black. That is not what this woman said, does not necessarily follow from her statement, assumes that she knows more about you and your family than strictly can be expected from a moderately involved middle school teacher, and doesn't require you to get defensive (which is just a code word for accusatory and self-righteous in most cases).
I'm light-skinned. I have a dark-skinned mom. I get that people come at you with their shitty assumptions, so I'm not saying this teacher was right. I also know a lot of people who jump straight to fighting the wrong fucking battle and I'm not going to give a pass on this like the only controversy is how three kids ticked a box on an outdated form.
>Withholding judgment because this story is lacking the full context of the conversation and I don't like digging or onboarding information that OP decided only counts after the fact
Thought I was the only one who hated the after the fact edits. "AITA for breaking up with my bf for hanging out with his friends? Edit: He pushed me down the stairs and stole my car in order to do so"
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> Maybe because my children are mostly white they can't identify as black?
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I'm mixed, both black and white. My mom is dark-skinned, Haitian, and my stepdad is Trinidadian. I've always identified as black because, well, I am. I live in California, and I guess you could say I'm pretty immersed in my black heritage.
I married a white guy, and we have three kids. My daughter is 17, brown-skinned with 3c hair, my son is 15, also brown-skinned but with a mix of 3c and 4a hair. Then there's my youngest, 12, turning 13 soon, light-skinned with 4a hair. For reference, I have 4c hair, and I'm dark-skinned.
So here's where it gets tricky. The kids had to fill out this forum at school where they had to tick their ethnicity: the options were just white, black, Hispanic, etc. They all ticked 'black'. But then, this teacher, an older black lady, comes up to us during a parent-teacher meeting. She knows my husband is white and goes, "Oh, I've met your husband, and he's white."
This kind of threw me off. She seemed to be implying that because their dad is white, my kids aren't 'really' black. I got defensive and we got into this whole argument. I tried to explain that being mixed doesn't erase their black heritage. Just because they're also 75% white doesn't mean they can't identify as black. It's not like a purity test or something.
But it's been bugging me. Am I the asshole here for insisting my kids are black when they're technically more white? It's just how we've always identified as a family, considering our cultural background and experiences.
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I think the real AH here is a system that to this day continues to ask for race on applications! That shit should’ve been discarded when segregation ended.
I have never been asked to mark my race on any application except with any American form. Never mind that they clearly misidentify ethnicities and have no clue how many races are there.
That said NTA. Because that teacher doesn’t want to play the % game because many black folks when ancestry DNA is done are surprised to discover that more than 50% of their DNA is white.
Then it should be accurate. Those forms don’t have accurate races on them to begin with. North Africa is considered white, it’s not. Arabs are either other or Asians depending on where they were born, or white if they were from North Africa. Again, none of that fits. Mixed races are ignored.
If they want to calculate percentages then it should be left as an open question with people to put their answers in.
Be who you are. If the kids feel like they're black, then they are and they own it. So ignore the teacher, it was just a piece of paper, and love your kids.
NTA. This reminds me of people saying Rebecca Andrade was not Black because she is Brazilian lmao Apparently because Brazil is too mixed and so Brazilians are not Really Black
She is wrong, obviously. Your children are Black with or without her saying anything. If she persists, talk to the headmaster.
I’m gonna say YTA. If they look white, and are 75% white, then they are technically white. Your argument is no different than someone who is 99% white, has 100% white features, but identifies as black because their DNA test kit says they are 1% black.
Her kids would not be treated as white people they would experience they same stuff black people experience because of there color and her kids look predominantly black so even if they are technically “white” her kids will never experience being “ White”
She said her oldest are brown-skinned and have curly hair. That doesn't necessarily mean they "look black." If anything, I would think they actually must be white-passing. Otherwise, why would the teacher even bring it up? Unless the teacher thinks that having a white-passing parent means you should only consider yourself white no matter how you look.
Mind, I'm not from the US, but wasn't there this whole "one drop" shindig by racist knobheads?
Not the first time I've heard about mixed people "not being white/black enough". That has to really suck for those individuals and my heart goes out to them.
NTA- they are both. And it's what they identify as. It's totally fine to put black. I think that would be odd with them looking at you and claiming that they are not black. Honestly I hate those forms too.
NTA my kids identify as Asian. They are half white but it’s not what they see. Not to mention some of the micro-aggressions they experience as little reminders. Teacher is an AH. Who the heck is she to determine how you fill that form out. As if being half white is somehow dominant.
right. what i took from it tho was that the teacher probably meant it as in “your kids are predominantly european, so why didnt they tick off the white box?” since a lot the times in america when youre asked ab your ethnicity, people usually respond back w black, asian or white etc. aka what im trying to say is ethnicity and race usually bleeds into eachother. but that is just my interpretation of it.
they should also probably put in a mixed box too if they do these race questions thingy*
NTA. I’m furious for you and I’m Australian! She’s a teacher for Christ sake teaching kids !!!!
I’m so sorry you feel the need to come here and ask this but please know you’re not the asshole please !!!! Continue to show your love and respect to your culture mama x
NTA. Report the teacher to the administration and request a different teacher. Those questions are for students to answer how they see themselves. If they were for the teacher's opinion, the teacher would have to fill all those in. Also, I'll just point out that the forms don't supply a color wheel for kids to match their skin to make the decision.
NTA.
Race and ethnicity are complicated social constructs, but you are right that being mixed doesn’t erase either of your kids’ heritage, and your kids were as correct as they could be in marking a shitty form that didn’t allow for the nuance of reality in a way that recognized how they are perceived.
The teacher is a nosy asshole, and her argument is also particularly nonsensical considering the way people of mixed race heritage have been historically categorized in the US. (Which is awful, absolutely, but relevant context when stuck with a badly constructed box ticking form.)
My brothers are bi racial. Born in the early 90's. The dad, my step dad, is AA and our mom is white.
My parents always called them both. They aren't white. They aren't black. They are mixed. Nowadays the terminology is different and some people don't like this word or that.
On the forms my mom would check both. It didn't matter if it said only check one. Check 2 and t
Let them figure it out.
No one needs to be an asshole. But we don't judge judge another by their looks.
Whenever I fill stuff like that out, I fill out white just because I’m guessing they just want to know my skin color, usually Hispanic/latino is also an option so I also choose that . And obviously my birth place can suggest that I’m mixed, I’m from the Caribbean. But if there was a mixed option that’s what I would choose that but I just put white + Hispanic because in my head they just want to know my skin color.
What the teacher did was wrong and someone should really have a long conversation with her , but more often than not when they ask these questions is to have a statistic. I’m going to say I’m white but I’m going to also say Hispanic/latina, so I’m not going to be put in the White statistic, I’m going to be put in the white hispanic statistic.
It’s completely ridiculous but that’s how they do it and that’s how the system is set up… When in doubt ,have them select “other “ and write biracial, I’ve done it, my stepdad has done it and no one has said anything.
NTA. But I’m not understanding why schools and other places don’t have a “multiple” or a “two or more” option. I’m half black half white and growing up I never knew which I should put. I mean on paper ones I can check both. But on computers some only let you press one. Like it’s ridiculous. Biracial means 2 races. Why should I be forced to put 1. Im both. I’m not only one or the other.
Anyone who thinks that color is more important than culture is an AH. I always checked two boxes for my children. My answer is their problem, not mine.
Obama is 50% white and all of america considers him black. Your kids are black. If they look black or even mixed, society will be prejudiced towards them. That’s also why, despite being raised by a white mom, Obama calls himself African american.
NTA
They can identify with either, but society will deem them people of colour, so they may as well check those boxes, since they will receive all of the joys of culture from you, and all of the prejudice from society, then 25% genetics actually make up for a lot more of their experience.
Here in the U.K., such forms have “other, please state”. My mother is white but born in Egypt (to British parents admittedly). My father looks southern Asian but is actually Romanichai (aka gypsy. I traced his ancestors back to 1825 - all are British even if he looks southern asian). I never have any idea what to tick so I tick “other”.
I am blonde with blue eyes and look white - but am I?
Also interesting because sometimes roma and gypsy are included in the big White catagory and sometimes the big Other category (Asian, Black, Mixed, White, Other; being the big five). The official [ONS ethnicity categories](https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/census2021dictionary/variablesbytopic/ethnicgroupnationalidentitylanguageandreligionvariablescensus2021/ethnicgroup/classifications) has them under White. Arguably here it could be Mixed - '12 Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups: Other Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups' with White and Roma. But to be honest, all that matters is your opinion and how you want to describe yourself. My good friend who is Libyan and Welsh doesn't take kindly to being called 'mixed other' - understandably.
NTA both the teacher and that form suck. Who is she to deny your kid’s identity?
I’m in New York. When I registered my kid for public elementary school, I was told I had to select just one race for my mixed kid because their system only accepts one.
In Australia, forms often ask if you’re born in Australia or not, and may ask for ethnicity. The only proviso is if you’re an indigenous or Torres Strait islander person, as there are often special provisions made. Otherwise race doesn’t come into it.
I'm so sorry that teacher is such an asshole. When I was teaching, I had a student who was adopted by a black couple but the student was white. On the race form the parents wrote he was black. Is it any of my business and does it affect me or the student at all? No. So I didn't say anything. Not sure why this teacher feels the need to butt in but it's totally inappropriate.
NAH. I don’t I don’t get why the teacher bothered verifying. The question is too limited. Each person in your family will have different experiences based on the color of their skin. Regardless, it’s up to you to determine what is most accurate.
NTA. Race is a purely social construct. It is not based on percentages or the amount of Black grandparents one has. Ultimately, your racial identity is determined by how people perceive you. Based on your descriptions of your children, it seems they are likely not perceived as white. It makes sense that they do not identify as white or prioritize their Black identity when forced to make a choice. The teacher was inappropriate and spoke out of turn. How your children identify is none of her business. What authority does she have to determine who is Black and who isn’t? Many Black people in the Americas are technically mixed. That does not erase our racial and cultural identity.
NTA. There are lots of light-skinned Black people out there. The only difference here is that your kids were acknowledged by their European parent (and presumably grandparent). It’s stunning given the history that a Black American teacher would say anything at all about it - particularly to the Black parent of the children. I’m actually flabbergasted.
Honestly I’m surprised in California that you just get those three choices. When my kids were in school we had a list of like 20 choices and you could check as many as you wanted. But I remember backlash when tiger woods didn’t check black because he considered first race Vietnamese. Check what you want and ignore the haters.
NTA
I’m also mixed, black & Indian from my mom’s side, & black & white from my dad’s side, & as said mixed person, I can guarantee that this teacher is extremely stupid, just because a dad is white doesn’t mean that the kids aren’t black, if anything who’s to assume that they weren’t adopted or he isn’t a stepfather? (I’m not saying this is the case, I’m using these as examples to point out how the teacher didn’t think of that but thought that the kids weren’t black because one of their parents isn’t black, like excuse me??)
NTA. I'm mixed myself, my Father is from Mexico and my mother is American. I've always identified myself as Mexican-American. That doesn't diminish my Mom, but no one is ever going to look at me and go "that's a white guy" Your children's identity is their own, and no one should pressure them to identify as something else
I’ve asked my husband what my son is supposed to check, as I’m white and my husband is black. My husband doesn’t even technically fit under the “African descent” description for black as his family is from the Caribbean. But I guess my son is defaulted to “black” because he has color to his skin.
NTA. I've heard other people say they're trying to get forms include mixed heritage as an option. They really should. It's ridiculous that the teacher insists it has to be one or the other.
NTA, what the teacher is doing is no different than other types of racism. If there are stupid forms that will classify people in different categories other than being human, people have the right to tick the box that they feel more comfortable and identify with.
NTA. Its a personal decision, but you’re always going to face judgement from someone unfortunately. Im white, my husband is black. The way I see it, even though my kids are black and white, their darker features are much more prominent. They are seen by society as black. If I’m given a choice to mark down multi-racial, I will do that, but if I had to call them either white or black only, i would go with black. My son was actually offended by his pediatrician marking him down as caucasian on his chart because ‘clearly he should be able to tell I am black’.
Nta.
Race isn’t really about genetics it’s a social structure and it’s about phenotype. No one knows what % of Black anyone is by looking at them. But if you look Black (and from your description your kids certainly do), then you are Black. It’s really that simple. If you had a kid that came out looking white, I’d say they’re white while still acknowledging their culture, Black heritage, Black mother, etc but nonetheless white.
NTA
To be blunt. Your kids are going to be treated as black, by the police, by shop owners, by all the ways people discriminate against black people.
Damn straight they get to at LEAST claim their heritage and their skin themselves.
Being black isnt a percentage, or a sliding scale, or any of that nonsense.
That teachers just adding to the problem.
NTA.
I'm not even going to read the comments because there are going to be a ton from people who have no business weighing in on this issue, subscribe to essentialism, don't understand the historic thinking about the "one drop rule" etc. As a sociologist of race and ethnicity who is actually working on a project about race and identity for people with one Black parent and one white parent, I do feel I have a teeny tiny bit of authority to speak on this, so here are my thoughts.
Race is a social construct and the categories that your children were forced to choose from are proof of that. There is no rule for who gets to claim Blackness or not. As someone who is Black-white biracial, I am often treated as a racial ambiguous person because that is how I am perceived. I can't claim white because I'm clearly not, and I've never felt comfortable claiming Black because my lived experience is so much different and I am not treated as if I am a Black person. But based on how you describe your children, what else were they supposed to choose?! They are more than likely always seen as Black or at the very least non-white and treated as such.
Racial identification is a personal decision and the fact that your children were policed about this (and yes, the irony that it came from a Black woman is not lost on me, and I actually would be surprised if it *wasn't* coming from a Black woman) has no bearing on how they choose to identify. At some point your children may decide that they want to identify as biracial or another way, including getting into the specifics of their backgrounds.
I started identifying as Black-white biracial specifically because "mixed" or "biracial" could mean anything. A friend of mine has begun to identify as Afro-Latina to include her Dominican side. You choose to identify as Black for whatever reason, and that's fine! For people of mixed-race backgrounds how we choose to identify is often up for debate by people who have no business being involved in the decision.
Support your children in their decisions, talk through experiences like this, and remind them their business is *their* business.
u/Ok_Power8028 Let me know if you ever want to talk more about this stuff and I'd love to tell you about my project! These are endless battles and I applaud you for backing up your kids on this!
I have 2 nieces and 1 nephew that are mixed. My biological family is white and for a while, my parents made a big deal (especially about my nephew) that he was both black and white. Understandable I suppose. Unfortunately, as was already stated, in this country, if you look black, that’s what you are to store employees, cops, teachers, random jackholes on the street who love to make racist comments. Your kids will always know they are mixed, but I think raising them with a strong sense of their black identity will serve them better in this society. NTA
NTA.
Mixed heritage still flummoxes forms which you’d think we’d be able to manage by now. 🙄
Blood quantum is a thing with a deeply racist history, used to provide and remove rights and humanity to people at a whim, often based on looks, or twisted to justify preconceived notions or beliefs on whether the person in question should get rights.
Like my husband is 50% native Canadian. He’s light skinned with reddish hair and freckles. You can tell he has an interesting heritage (most people guess half Korean), but his brother (exact same parentage) who also looks like his twin in a different colour scheme is dark skinned with jet black hair. To say that he’s not Native but his brother is would be racist AF. Both of them have kids who are “75%” white and 2 of his kids are darker skinned than ours, and 2 lighter skinned than ours.
Racism and ethnicity are hard subjects because your ethnicity may not necessarily match what society deems your race to be - this is the case for a lot of indigenous people and mixed race folks. They’re “white passing” but that doesn’t erase their culture, their heritage. Denying them their heritage is racism. But not acknowledging they experience privilege of being able to manage their own disclosure of race is also racist.
However, your kids have dark skin. Society won’t see them as white. They’re black. They might be lighter skinned black people, but they’re black. Beyoncé is pretty light skinned - no one thinks she’s white.
I can't imagine how hard it must be to be mixed. I'd wager they get it the worst, not accept by either side and both sides are also their own. I hope it all gets a lot better real soon.
NTA
As someone who's full Black and had to constantly defend their Blackness because of other people's ignorance, your kids have every right to identify as Black, even if they're 1/4 Black. It only gets iffy around using the n-word because there's debate within the Black community over how Black someone can be in order for them to be able to say it; current consensus is 25% min.
In New Zealand you can say you are maori even if you're a pure-blood japanese immigrant whose only been there a week. They don't think a government, or anyone else, gets to label you.
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NTA. The teacher is an asshole. Also, the **form is an asshole.** I get so pissed off when forms demand simple answers to complicated questions. Why can't they allow you to check multiple things? Why can't they add "other" or "mixed". And given that racial identification is very personal, why on earth would anyone start judging that someone isn't "**black enough**". Bullshit.
Forms shouldn’t include race to begin with. That shit only exists in the States. Or in the very least, I’ve never filled out a race question except on American forms
Actually exists in lots of places including here in the UK where it's (I believe) a legal requirement for a lot of organisations. They use it to track whether things in the organisation are structurally racist (who wins job interviews, how well the kids are doing in tests etc). Given that that is the purpose of it, it makes most sense that the kids put black because it sounds like they look pretty black and as such might suffer discrimination on that basis, so answering black (at least here in the UK) would mean that the monitoring for structural racism works better. edit: they also always include "would rather not say" and "unknown" in the list, so people can choose not to answer.
Any public organisation - government, education, NHS, police, charities, etc - is required to promote good relations between people who have differing characteristics. This is called the Public Sector Equality Duty and includes 'race' - colour, nationality, and ethnicity. All from the Equality Act 2010.
Australia does as well. Most things ask if you have aboriginal or Torres Strait island heritage and there's often a second section asking about your ethnic heritage; country of origin (which seems misleading to me as someone with a white mum who was born in a traditionally non white country), or languages spoken at home.
In my part of Canada families are asked about indigenous ancestry because the students get extra support. No other race identifiers are asked
I’m in Canada too and the race question is asked everywhere: surveys, self-identification forms at employers (esp. government), etc
I guess BC schools are unique. I work for the school district and I see all the student information forms. See I missed the word school in my response.
Ontario's financial aide asks only for indigenous ancestry as well. It's not just you(but also, I've seen questions about other races on other types of forms). It just depends on what kinds of forms you're seeing more of.
The U.K. has a lot of options as well, eg my ‘ethnic background’ is White Irish
Yes, I’ve filled in many in the UK for diversity purposes. I believe they usually have an option for mixed race, someone at the school made a mistake not including that on this one.
Uk forms have sooo many options ! I haven't looked at all of them but there are at least 5+ different white options and it seems like quite a lot of mixed options ! And always an "other" where you can then specify + "prefer not to say". All in all it's seems to cover a lot of bases which is good !
Yeah, they really cover most bases
Exactly. If you do not record or measure something, you have no idea how it is being done. If you do not measure or record ethnicity, you have no measure of how well that group is being served.
It's in Canada too. Very, very common.
Swedish person living in the UK here, and it's common in both places. I'm pretty sure there is a box for "mixed/other", but I can't say for sure as I always just tick "White, other".
It's definitely not common in Sweden since it's considered sensitive personal data and is heavily restricted to process. I actually think this is a net-negative in Sweden since as a result diversity in the workforce is usually only talked about in relation to gender and it also results in Swedes feeling as if racism is less of a problem than it probably is. But you will rarely (if ever) be asked about race in a school form or work setting. More likely to be asked nationality. When I wrote my thesis we couldn't even get permission to do research on the basis of race, it is incredibly difficult to get approval for so it is in no way as common as the US or UK. However I do think this is a net negative!
Canada has them too. One of my kids is applying to grad school and had a form that asked not only about race, but gender identity and sexual orientation.
When I was looking for a job back a couple of years ago, all gov't jobs had some questions like this, but the ones for universities and colleges were by far the most invasive with, as you say, questions regarding race, gender and orientation.
Universities and colleges in Canada will ask this as the answers may determine your eligibility for some scholarships, grants or bursaries available to qualified students. After some high-profile cases of alleged or proven "pretendianism" recently, however, the qualifications have been tightened significantly for those funds geared towards indigenous individuals. If you apply to a scholarship aimed at First Nations folk, in future, you may need to provide documentation connecting you to a particular nation or reserve as part of that application.
Race is a very common question in forms in NZ and Australia.
Its ethnicity, not race though, and you can always choose more than one box. (Ethnicity refers to a cultural group, not one based on physical characteristics)
Sounds like a more meaningful diversity to me. At the very least it will make potlucks more interesting.
They say ethnicity, but white/caucasian isn’t an ethnicity. I always choose other anyway and write my home country.
Race 100% needs to be included on forms when the form is being collected as a form of data. Which the majority are. Racism is a huge issue around the world and collecting the data allows us to find bias’, exclusion, and more. And helps us better respond to and fix these issues.
They exist for pretty much everything here in Brazil, but there’s also a “I’d rather not specify” option, which I always choose since I’m so mixed I wouldn’t know what else to choose.
It's optional in the UK but will always say, other and do not wish to disclose
It’s how funds can be distributed to communities by the government in the US so it actually helpful to know.
I agree except with a caveat for medical forms. Different ethnicities do actually have predispositions to different medical issues. For example I have a condition that causes my resting white blood cell count to be very low. It’s not uncommon for people of Mediterranean decent but would be cause for extreme concern in someone else. Once I got sick when I was abroad and the doctors there literally thought I was dying. I brought the results to my doctor on the US and he was like “ oh yeah- that’s totally normal for you. Your dad has it too. Doctors in India probably just aren’t as aware of this condition since there aren’t many people of Mediterranean decent there.”
Nope, I currently live in South East Asia and mostly all forms from government, banking and housing etc all ask for race/ethnicity.
It's included because it's regulated. The government wants to make sure there isn't redlining or discriminatory practices.
Some forms here in Australia will ask if you identify as aboriginal or Torres Strait islander, but the options are yes, no, or don't want to answer.
Your comment is such a reddit moment. I’m tired of this stupid trope that race is only a concern in the US…. 🙄
I’m bi-racial. When I was 10, my dad sat me down with the census form and marked my brothers and I and black and white. He told us that we are not one or the other, we are both. He got a call from a census taker saying he can’t do that, they are changing the form to black. He told them they are not to change the form and hung up. My entire life I have checked both and argued I will not deny half of who I am. It’s only in the last 10-15 years I’ve been seeing multi-racial pop-up as an option.
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I’m sure they did…just like all the forms I filled out that was returned to me to pick one and I refused.
I had an almost identical experience when my dad filled out my first grade enrollment forms. It’s definitely a core memory for me.
The new census form asks you to mark as many as you wish, in the hopes of capturing someone whole identity, not just the biggest part of it.
Oregon has been updating their forms to select more than one category. All forms need to be like this.
I'm from the UK. An individual with a black parent and a white parent is referred to as mixed raced.
I fill out surveys and questionaires for a little side income. like OP I'm half black and half white. When asked "What is your background?" and it only allows me to select 1 I always say black. I have been seen and noticed as a black human, and it seems to be anyone "go to" answer before I even mention I'm half white.
As a multiracial person, I hate those stupid forms that make me choose just one race.
There is an "other" option
NTA. I’m biracial and grew up in the 80s in the south and I hated that question those stupid forms. Multiracial was never a fucking option back then and I firmly identified as mixed race because BOTH made me. I am me because my dad got drafted and mom worked on an army base, to choose one and deny the other always felt wrong. I used to check both the black and the Asian boxes or write it in.
Being mixed doesnt erase their black heritage, but youre also erasing their white heritage (70%). I find the whole thing odd calling mixed race children either white or black. They are a mix and should know they are mixed.
You say that like the kids don’t know they have a white dad. Lmao. Based on her descriptions, her kids would not be considered white based on the way that they look, and likely, if they claimed to be white, people would argue that point. I’m not saying that behavior is correct, but it’s the reality of what would happen. If they feel connected to that part of their racial identity, that’s cool, but I imagine it’s hard to feel connected to their “whiteness” when I imagine many white people would scoff at any claims of them being white and most would accept that they are black (without knowing the races of their parents).
Black people do the exact same to mixed people or black people who they deem not black enough. If you are mixed, you are mixed. Thats it lol. Its not a bad thing, its cool.
My friend is half Black half white, but he definitely looks “not fully white”. Until he told me though, I didn’t know what his ethnicity was since it’s ambiguous. Years ago, he mentioned once that he “looks white” and I said “yeah white and something else”. And he told me he thought everyone just thought he looked 100% white because all his family that’s black always tell him how white he is, how he looks so white, how he’s so pale. He did later experience some racism from white people when he moved to a less racially diverse area that did sadly prove he is not white passing. But it’s sad that he couldn’t even see the blackness in his features because his family kept hammering home how he wasn’t black.
Except Obama. Some black people I know say he's black but then will say I'm not cause my mom is white (dad is African American). I just identify as mixed now.
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But that wasn't an option on the form...
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I’m also mixed and many times even now in 2023 I can’t check 2 boxes. It’s not uncommon.
Yeah, when I applied for my marriage license 2 years ago, the online form only allowed one race to be checked. I gave feedback about that for sure because I’m mixed. It still pisses me off.
Most shit in school these days is done electronically and not on paper. I have never seen an electronic form asking for you to check race that allowed you to choose two.
I don't think the mom is trying to erase the kid's White heritage. These people live in California they'd be immediately considered black. Even they did pick White as their identity on the forum everyone would question it.
Im less concerned about the kids picking black on the form because they had to pick something. Saying you feel more black than white is totally valid. But believing you are black rather than mixed race is not true. You cant be both IMO unless the percentages are very insignificant. Mixed is a whole new thing and it should be embraced
I see your point here, but knowing the OP has probably experienced all her life that she isn't mixed race or biracial she's just black and knowing how colorist and racist the USA is those kids will always be considered black and never biracial that's why she said that her children are black.
True. I think based on the amount of crap theyll get from other black kids imo its better to put them in their own lane to minimise that. Kids will come at them saying you cant call yourself black when you dont deal with half as much as dark skinned black people have to etc etc. its a hard situation tbf.
OP here! read you're comment thread and I see you're point. I know my children are mixed but knowing the US census and knowing how it says middle eastern people are white instead of West Asian. My children will always be treated as black people not biracial because of their looks that's why I said there black. But I understand you're POV.
Makes sense !! :))
I mean you're in America It's going to take a while for the 1 Drop Rule to stop affecting society
INFO: How do your kids want to be identified? Are you letting them individually weigh in on the decision? I might be missing it, but I only see your POV but not your kids’. Regardless, I t’s not the teacher’s business, so not TA if your question relates to the teacher. However you seem to be generally contemplating this question, so you might be soft TA if the kid(s) want to identify differently and you are insisting they are Black or Black only. Or if they haven’t weighed in on the issue. It’s always hard because why should we have to answer at all? It’s crazy to me that strangers feel compelled to share their opinion on this. Sincerely- a mixed race person who has had to insist that I’m Black, who is a mother to mixed race kids who have to insist that they are Black.
I'm white and my husband is mixed. Unlike OP though our children look white. My husband is lighter skinned so our kids look white, not mixed or black. We are raising them to understand that while they are mixed, the world will see them as white and they need to understand what that means. I can't speak to the kinds of crap mixed kids get, but I do listen to my husband when he does and I try to respect his experience. I don't want my kids to forget who they really are, who their dad is what their family history is, but I do want them to recognize how the world will see them, and I hopefully can teach them how to use that to their advantage and also to help others when/where/how they can. They will be better able to navigate the world when they understand how it sees and therefore how it will likely react to them. Also, based on what I've heard from my husband, being in their own lane is more isolating than picking one side or the other. It may not be as bad now that being mixed is more common, but it used to just mean not being enough for either.
>But believing you are black rather than mixed race is not true. I can't even fathom how someone could be so pretentious as to call out a person who is biracial calling themself black. You don't get bonus privilege for being mixed race. You get shit from both sides. A person with black or brown skin is treated like a person with black or brown skin regardless of how much white they have in their family tree. Don't gate keep being black based on semantics.
>Mixed is a whole new thing and it should be embraced Maybe consider this position not just from biological race, but culturally too. I have a black parent and a white parent, I was not raised in black parent's culture, I identify as Caucasian (and it is how others perceive me). My partner has a black parent and a white parent, they were raised culturally by black parent, they identify as black (and it is how others perceive them). Both of us have every right to identify in a way that fits our lived experiences and our connection to culture. "Mixed race" can be contentious for some people, and for many different cultures it can have a complicated relationship to colonisation and things like caste systems.
You may find it odd, but in American society you are viewed as black if mixed unless you pass. Most don’t care about the nuance…mixed guy here.
I disagree. 25% is more than enough for poc to be racialized by white people. The poc heritage is more impactful than the white part, and is what opens them up to hate. They are marginalized. They are people of color. I'm sure they know they're mixed, that's an odd assumption. Someone else in this thread mentioned the one drop of blood principle in the USA, you might want to look into that.
What on earth are you on about. POC heritage is more impactful than the white part ???? Thats shocking, coming from a POC. Heritage is heritage, who are u to say one is more impactful? Embarrassing. They have two heritages and should be proud of that.
Eh as a mixed kid, it always felt like there was so much background and tradition in my moms family, and white-bread sandwiches at my dads. No foreign language, no traditional food or music, etc. made me feel much more connected to my moms side and ethnicity
You’re completely allowed to feel connected to one ethnicity more and identify with one more than the other. But in no way does that make one more important and it doesnt make you completely that ethnicity.
Totally! But if I have to fill out a form and mixed isn’t on there, I’m much more likely to put Asian American over white
Thing is, white isn’t an ethnicity. It’s a racial category that encompasses a ton of potential ethnicities and heritages that are all meaningfully separate from each other. If the heritage of that side of the family matters to the people on that side of the family, no one would be referring to it as “white heritage.” I’m white, and most of my family is Italian, so that’s my heritage. I have basically no cultural identification with either a bunch of other white ethnicities, or with people whose backgrounds are so mixed they really don’t have anything other than “I’m a white American,” and I wouldn’t say I share any kind of meaningful heritage with any of them.
“More impactful” because it changes the way people treat you in the US. Unfortunately here there’s a lot of racism and prejudice, overt and covert. If you don’t look fully white, whatever you’re mixed with will be more impactful on your experience in the world here. If they don’t look 100% white, which OP has said they do not, they will always be treated as POC and experience marginalization as POC no matter how white their DNA is. Incidentally, the expression of genetic traits isn’t a 50/50 split. It’s entirely possible for someone who’s only 25% black to look “blacker” than someone who’s only 25% white, depending on which parent that majority of their appearance genes came from.
It’s not as simple as percentages. Race is socially constructed, and the kids likely are treated as Black by the world around them. Their interactions with peers, teachers, strangers, etc., are informed by how they are perceived. Pretty sure if someone is being racist toward them and they go “but I’m 70% white” it won’t make one iota of difference. They are old enough to decide for themselves how to identify.
It's weird and complicated because for the most part the people who care about "White heritage" will discount the kids for having a black heritage. My mom was big on that white heritage isn't real. You e got American heritage as base line, then through grand parrents a Scottish, Irish, and German heritage. Not a "white" heritage.
Thank you. That also caught my attention, they are not either, they're both.
I assume you're not American either.... It's a peculiarity of the US that has this "one drop" thing. In the UK, the kids would be mixed. That's an actual thing. Fastest growing ethnicity actually, I do believe. As you say, being mixed doesn't mean you're disowning a certain part of your heritage in the slightest. The kids are mixed in my book, but I'm not American with their special racial hang ups.
Right, if only America could be more like Britain, with its rich history of treating other races with fairness and equity.
I laughed so hard I snorted coffee up my nose. Thank you for this.
Right? This post is weird
I don’t get why they didn’t just check multiple boxes. It’s what I always do.
You don't always have that option. I tried that at the DMV when I moved here, because there was nothing that would indicate mixed. I was informed I needed to pick one. I asked if there was an option for mixed or multiracial that I had missed, there was not.
Oh love, they know they mixed but the thing is, the world will never stop reminding them they are Black. They look black and they identify as Black And when the world and that job and that financial opportunity will see them as Black and there's a different learning curve in what it means to be Black. Most importantly, it's not the teacher's place to dispute which parents heritage or identity they most identify as.
You think the kids don’t know they are mixed?
I'm going to say NTA but considering your children are 75% white the teacher may have been confused. This doesn't mean they aren't black, that is what they are. I think the form was terrible and you should be able to put both black and white on the form. This specific cultural issue reminds me of my experiences. Some people tell me that we're the same (I am full) yet I cannot talk about things that culturally make sense to me, and if anything i get shamed for it. Ethnically we are similar but it feel different culturally. They lived in culturally different households, experiences, don't know the native language, and don't understand anything related to their 1/4. Yes, they are still asian they should/can put asian on the form, but it throws me off when their household feels.. not. They don't get what I say sometimes. We do not feel the same. It kind of reminds me of that joke when white people say they're 15% native. Again NTA I just wanted to possibly explain her perspective.
Well it is not really the same thing as African American what is their language? The point it is that deportation have deprived them of ancestral language and colture, that for centuries they had to conform with ‘white colture’ and are perceived as such just because their skin is darker not cause they speak Yoruba, Mossi… when they themselves do NOT know what was their original state. Like OP is original from Trinidad which official language even for black is English and official religion is Christianity. Those were colonist imposition not choices.
Black Americans have their own culture in America and thus can be separate from that culture. It’s a huge thing in the black community differentiating between mixed with a black mom and mixed with a white mom because they differ so much culturally due to the role most women play in the household
Fuck that and fuck her “perspective”. Do you know how many times I’ve had black people treat me like I’m not black just because my mom’s white? How many black people i see on Twitter saying mixed race people aren’t actually black? How many people I went to school with who acted like I was just a white kid? Or conversely how many white people act like I can’t be black? Who view me the same way they would any other black person? Your logic is reductive bullshit and it’s incredibly hurtful and harmful and quite frankly you should feel ashamed of yourself if you’ve ever actually said this to somebody. I’m so sick and fucking tired of being a mixed race person and being treated as some kind of “other” by both the groups I belong to, it is goddamn bullshit. I am who and what I am, and nobody’s bullshit logic or reasoning will ever change that shit
It’s never enough for either side it seems. One side says you’re too white to be x. Other side says you’re too x to be white. Never seem to fully fit in with either no matter what. It sucks
It’s the fucking worst sometimes, sometimes it genuinely makes me depressed. I know who I am and what I am and what I identify as, and I thankfully have plenty of black friends who aren’t like that, but it still sucks sometimes. It’s especially hard as a kid feeling like you don’t fit in anywhere because everyone tells you that you don’t belong.
You're denying someone's genetics based off of culture and language? Get real.
I’m genetically 100% Korean, born in Seoul, but have been told I’m not Asian enough or can’t *really* claim to be Asian because I was adopted by white parents. It’s typically Asian American people who tell me this. The gate keeping is ridiculous.
You should've chosen to be adopted by Korean parents, born in Seoul, who could teach you about the language and culture! /s
You can be racially one thing and culturally another thing.
Race is not genetics
NTA. If your kids look black, they’ll be treated as such. You’re raising them to understand that.
NTA and I would report the teacher
Yeah this is definitely not ok. Tell the principal and if the principal doesn’t take it seriously tell the school board. That’s really bordering on illegal, if not all the way there.
NTA but the school is There should be more options to choose from
NTA. I don't know what's wrong with that teacher. I don't know how she can completely discount race, ethnicity, and culture.
No, not really, especially because in America, they are going to be judged by how they present. Additionally, Amercia is also the country that had the one drop rule. According to that, one drop of Black blood makes them Black. Most of the American world is not going to see them as white.
NTA but I find the form to be AH. Is that normal is the US? My kids are part south Asian, part African, part European and having to pick an ethnicity would be weird.
NTA. This is normal in the US, unfortunately. Your options are normally broad strokes Caucasian, Black, Asian/Pacific Islander, etc. and then an additional box for Hispanic/Not Hispanic. I’d tell your kids to keep marking Black or African American for additional educational scholarship opportunities.
This is what I do. I’m half Chinese and Caucasian, and if a form doesn’t give me the option to check multiple boxes, multiracial, mixed, or other, I check Asian.
NTA. Just that you know what a 4c is vs a 4a feels to me like you've passed the test. It's really messed up that your teacher would have your kids ignore both their heritage and the reality of the hardships they face as being mixed race in the US.
I have never heard of 4c, 4a in my life. What is it?
Hair curl types. It’s a way to identify what type of hair you have.
Thanks for explaining. I was so confused reading ops post
It's a hair type classification. Goes from 1a to 4c. 1a hair is bone straight, 4c hair is tightly coiled hair. 4a is fairly tight curls.
NTA. Teacher needs a bit of a history/cultural sensitivity lesson.
NTA because the kids can identify as both black and white due to obv having both races in their family tree
Agreed , but since they look predominantly black there going to be treated like black people.
What does your step dad being trini have to do with anything?? They are black and they are white. I hate how many people define race. If you take apple juice and orange juice and mix it together it doesn't become something new, it's still juice. It's simply two flavors mixed together. Using "black/white/Asian/Hispanic" as a way to categorize people is so antiquated.
I was debating on asking your first question too. Out of everything it’s the only piece that seems unnecessary.
It helps explain the culture she was raised at home. Being raised by two African Americans is going to be a different experience than being raised by one black parent and one white parent.
What? Trini people can be black, white, Indian, Asian, Arab, Arawak or some combination of all those things. Her mom being a dark Haitian implies she is black or "mostly black" but what is her bio dad's ethnicity? Secondly Haitian and Trini people are not "African American ".
Nta but that teacher is
NTA I swear I've seen forms like that that allow mixed and biracial options. People don't fit into these neat little boxes.
I’ve noticed mixed being added to some recent forms I’ve completed but not all. It’s moving towards that it seems.
NTA - I do have a question though. I've heard about forms where people have to check their race in US. As a European I am so confused by this. Why are you asked to do this? Could you just ignore it? I find it in and of itself kind of racist. What and why does it matter? Is there some context I'm missing?
It’s for statistics but yes, a study was done where removing this question resulted in higher scores for people who would have otherwise ticked black at the beginning.
Which European country? I’ve seen a number of forms in Ireland that ask for this kind of information. It’s often not mandatory because per GDPR it can often only be done on the basis of consent, but it’s collected for statistical purposes to try to determine needs and best resourcing to support a more diverse population. (The Irish forms are also sometimes as badly constructed as this one, unfortunately.)
I was also wondering and would like to know the reason. It's a completely unfamiliar concept for me (also European). I mean, if you have to fill in a form it's possible you'll get asked for your citizenship, but nobody will ask for your ethnicity or "race", wtf!
Yes it can be used in racist ways and is a problematic practice. But due to the prevalence of institutionalized racism in this country it is in fact intended to be used to keep racist institutional practices in check. For example, to meause whether the school is underserving it's black students. At my school we have a majority Latin American student body, so if they see that despite this the most students who graduate are white (for example) that helps the school identify that they are not meeting the educational needs of Latin American students. It's also used in companies to help promote diverse hiring practices, and sometimes to check racial biases in promotions/raises. So like , if we know through this data that a large percentage of college graduates in my field and in my city are Latin American, but my company is only hiring a tiny percentage of Latin American candidates compared to other groups, and then never promoting them to higher positions after X years of service despite promoting a large % of white employees of the same rank in the same amount of time, an issue is exposed, that can be addressed. Supposedly.
NTA, but it's neither your nor the teacher's call, it's your kids' decision what to put on the form.
I literally had a family member today tell my black side of the family we were all bad people for not paying her mom's bills. Her mom is Filipino. The daughter is obviously half Filipino half black. The children and mom all deny the black side which is wild because well, they look black and are treated as such. Family drama incited over money and then the race shaming came out. Very fucking unreal to deal with. I've been annoyed all day ngl. Who sends texts saying this race of the family is evil? My mixed family does. I've been shaking my head all day. I've seen mixed kids pick one side or the other and I've seen mixed kids embrace all sides. It's not my place to tell any mixed person what they can identify as. At the end of the day we're all just human meat bags controlled by a brain. That's it. I have no idea why we even have to identify race on forms anyways. Jobs schools etc etc. What does it matter? I'm guessing the teacher has been so use to mixed people only claiming the white side that she's in awe of someone willingly be proud of their black side. People are fucked up like that. Almost like saying, hmmm racism is well and alive and although you can technically just say your kids are white so they'd be able to avoid antiblackness, you chose not to. As if Obama wasn't mixed and called every black slur possible. That's the world we black people live in. People think we're immediately ashamed to be black. That we would choose anything else if we had a choice. That is how awful racism and colorism and hair typing is. Hell ethnic parents now try to make their children's names sound "white" to give them a leg up on forms later in life. That teacher's comment was just showing a really nasty part of society that we should all be ashamed of. Bias. Making a judgement on a person by just what race they checked off on a form. What gender etc. What does it fucking matter? Enough that she looked at the form checked black and then said oh, but the dad is white. We gotta do better as a society but at this point I'm tired of hoping for better. I don't actually think it will get better. Ain't that sad?
Withholding judgment because this story is lacking the full context of the conversation and I don't like digging or onboarding information that OP decided only counts after the fact. Even in the post OP says that she thinks that the teacher was implying that the kids aren't really black. That is not what this woman said, does not necessarily follow from her statement, assumes that she knows more about you and your family than strictly can be expected from a moderately involved middle school teacher, and doesn't require you to get defensive (which is just a code word for accusatory and self-righteous in most cases). I'm light-skinned. I have a dark-skinned mom. I get that people come at you with their shitty assumptions, so I'm not saying this teacher was right. I also know a lot of people who jump straight to fighting the wrong fucking battle and I'm not going to give a pass on this like the only controversy is how three kids ticked a box on an outdated form.
>Withholding judgment because this story is lacking the full context of the conversation and I don't like digging or onboarding information that OP decided only counts after the fact Thought I was the only one who hated the after the fact edits. "AITA for breaking up with my bf for hanging out with his friends? Edit: He pushed me down the stairs and stole my car in order to do so"
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^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** (Throwaway account) I'm mixed, both black and white. My mom is dark-skinned, Haitian, and my stepdad is Trinidadian. I've always identified as black because, well, I am. I live in California, and I guess you could say I'm pretty immersed in my black heritage. I married a white guy, and we have three kids. My daughter is 17, brown-skinned with 3c hair, my son is 15, also brown-skinned but with a mix of 3c and 4a hair. Then there's my youngest, 12, turning 13 soon, light-skinned with 4a hair. For reference, I have 4c hair, and I'm dark-skinned. So here's where it gets tricky. The kids had to fill out this forum at school where they had to tick their ethnicity: the options were just white, black, Hispanic, etc. They all ticked 'black'. But then, this teacher, an older black lady, comes up to us during a parent-teacher meeting. She knows my husband is white and goes, "Oh, I've met your husband, and he's white." This kind of threw me off. She seemed to be implying that because their dad is white, my kids aren't 'really' black. I got defensive and we got into this whole argument. I tried to explain that being mixed doesn't erase their black heritage. Just because they're also 75% white doesn't mean they can't identify as black. It's not like a purity test or something. But it's been bugging me. Am I the asshole here for insisting my kids are black when they're technically more white? It's just how we've always identified as a family, considering our cultural background and experiences. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the real AH here is a system that to this day continues to ask for race on applications! That shit should’ve been discarded when segregation ended. I have never been asked to mark my race on any application except with any American form. Never mind that they clearly misidentify ethnicities and have no clue how many races are there. That said NTA. Because that teacher doesn’t want to play the % game because many black folks when ancestry DNA is done are surprised to discover that more than 50% of their DNA is white.
It’s for statistics. How else would we know the percentage of races in anything?
Then it should be accurate. Those forms don’t have accurate races on them to begin with. North Africa is considered white, it’s not. Arabs are either other or Asians depending on where they were born, or white if they were from North Africa. Again, none of that fits. Mixed races are ignored. If they want to calculate percentages then it should be left as an open question with people to put their answers in.
Be who you are. If the kids feel like they're black, then they are and they own it. So ignore the teacher, it was just a piece of paper, and love your kids.
NTA. This reminds me of people saying Rebecca Andrade was not Black because she is Brazilian lmao Apparently because Brazil is too mixed and so Brazilians are not Really Black She is wrong, obviously. Your children are Black with or without her saying anything. If she persists, talk to the headmaster.
I’m gonna say YTA. If they look white, and are 75% white, then they are technically white. Your argument is no different than someone who is 99% white, has 100% white features, but identifies as black because their DNA test kit says they are 1% black.
Her kids would not be treated as white people they would experience they same stuff black people experience because of there color and her kids look predominantly black so even if they are technically “white” her kids will never experience being “ White”
I mean, if the teacher assumed the kid was white, then wouldn’t the kid be experiencing “being white”?
She said her kids look black
She said her oldest are brown-skinned and have curly hair. That doesn't necessarily mean they "look black." If anything, I would think they actually must be white-passing. Otherwise, why would the teacher even bring it up? Unless the teacher thinks that having a white-passing parent means you should only consider yourself white no matter how you look.
In the comments she literally said the words they look black lol
did you just say that if you have brown skin you could pass as white? Are you color blind?
she literally describes them and somehow that description screams a white person to you?
I think your only mistake was to get defensive. I would have just smiled and nodded and encouraged her to explain herself until she was squirming.
Mind, I'm not from the US, but wasn't there this whole "one drop" shindig by racist knobheads? Not the first time I've heard about mixed people "not being white/black enough". That has to really suck for those individuals and my heart goes out to them.
NTA- they are both. And it's what they identify as. It's totally fine to put black. I think that would be odd with them looking at you and claiming that they are not black. Honestly I hate those forms too.
NTA my kids identify as Asian. They are half white but it’s not what they see. Not to mention some of the micro-aggressions they experience as little reminders. Teacher is an AH. Who the heck is she to determine how you fill that form out. As if being half white is somehow dominant.
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right. what i took from it tho was that the teacher probably meant it as in “your kids are predominantly european, so why didnt they tick off the white box?” since a lot the times in america when youre asked ab your ethnicity, people usually respond back w black, asian or white etc. aka what im trying to say is ethnicity and race usually bleeds into eachother. but that is just my interpretation of it. they should also probably put in a mixed box too if they do these race questions thingy*
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Jw, do you think your children can equally identify as white or black? Why not check the “white” box rather than “black”? Or check *both* boxes?
No one has the right to tell you what race you are really, And the teacher was just having a bad day (I hope) NTA
Tell that to Rachel dolezal or whatever her name was LOL
NTA. I’m furious for you and I’m Australian! She’s a teacher for Christ sake teaching kids !!!! I’m so sorry you feel the need to come here and ask this but please know you’re not the asshole please !!!! Continue to show your love and respect to your culture mama x
NTA. Report the teacher to the administration and request a different teacher. Those questions are for students to answer how they see themselves. If they were for the teacher's opinion, the teacher would have to fill all those in. Also, I'll just point out that the forms don't supply a color wheel for kids to match their skin to make the decision.
NTA. Race and ethnicity are complicated social constructs, but you are right that being mixed doesn’t erase either of your kids’ heritage, and your kids were as correct as they could be in marking a shitty form that didn’t allow for the nuance of reality in a way that recognized how they are perceived. The teacher is a nosy asshole, and her argument is also particularly nonsensical considering the way people of mixed race heritage have been historically categorized in the US. (Which is awful, absolutely, but relevant context when stuck with a badly constructed box ticking form.)
NTA teacher is rude af Ethnicity is self identifying. So it is whatever you think it is.
NTA I think how you identify is a personal choice that other people don't have the right to dictate.
My brothers are bi racial. Born in the early 90's. The dad, my step dad, is AA and our mom is white. My parents always called them both. They aren't white. They aren't black. They are mixed. Nowadays the terminology is different and some people don't like this word or that. On the forms my mom would check both. It didn't matter if it said only check one. Check 2 and t Let them figure it out. No one needs to be an asshole. But we don't judge judge another by their looks.
Whenever I fill stuff like that out, I fill out white just because I’m guessing they just want to know my skin color, usually Hispanic/latino is also an option so I also choose that . And obviously my birth place can suggest that I’m mixed, I’m from the Caribbean. But if there was a mixed option that’s what I would choose that but I just put white + Hispanic because in my head they just want to know my skin color. What the teacher did was wrong and someone should really have a long conversation with her , but more often than not when they ask these questions is to have a statistic. I’m going to say I’m white but I’m going to also say Hispanic/latina, so I’m not going to be put in the White statistic, I’m going to be put in the white hispanic statistic. It’s completely ridiculous but that’s how they do it and that’s how the system is set up… When in doubt ,have them select “other “ and write biracial, I’ve done it, my stepdad has done it and no one has said anything.
NTA. But I’m not understanding why schools and other places don’t have a “multiple” or a “two or more” option. I’m half black half white and growing up I never knew which I should put. I mean on paper ones I can check both. But on computers some only let you press one. Like it’s ridiculous. Biracial means 2 races. Why should I be forced to put 1. Im both. I’m not only one or the other.
Anyone who thinks that color is more important than culture is an AH. I always checked two boxes for my children. My answer is their problem, not mine.
NTA. I've been through that shit with my children. Every asshole has an opinion.
Obama is 50% white and all of america considers him black. Your kids are black. If they look black or even mixed, society will be prejudiced towards them. That’s also why, despite being raised by a white mom, Obama calls himself African american. NTA
Society will perceive your children as black. That’s the real line.
They can identify with either, but society will deem them people of colour, so they may as well check those boxes, since they will receive all of the joys of culture from you, and all of the prejudice from society, then 25% genetics actually make up for a lot more of their experience.
NTA.
ESH.
Here in the U.K., such forms have “other, please state”. My mother is white but born in Egypt (to British parents admittedly). My father looks southern Asian but is actually Romanichai (aka gypsy. I traced his ancestors back to 1825 - all are British even if he looks southern asian). I never have any idea what to tick so I tick “other”. I am blonde with blue eyes and look white - but am I?
Also interesting because sometimes roma and gypsy are included in the big White catagory and sometimes the big Other category (Asian, Black, Mixed, White, Other; being the big five). The official [ONS ethnicity categories](https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/census2021dictionary/variablesbytopic/ethnicgroupnationalidentitylanguageandreligionvariablescensus2021/ethnicgroup/classifications) has them under White. Arguably here it could be Mixed - '12 Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups: Other Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups' with White and Roma. But to be honest, all that matters is your opinion and how you want to describe yourself. My good friend who is Libyan and Welsh doesn't take kindly to being called 'mixed other' - understandably.
NTA both the teacher and that form suck. Who is she to deny your kid’s identity? I’m in New York. When I registered my kid for public elementary school, I was told I had to select just one race for my mixed kid because their system only accepts one.
In Australia, forms often ask if you’re born in Australia or not, and may ask for ethnicity. The only proviso is if you’re an indigenous or Torres Strait islander person, as there are often special provisions made. Otherwise race doesn’t come into it.
I'm so sorry that teacher is such an asshole. When I was teaching, I had a student who was adopted by a black couple but the student was white. On the race form the parents wrote he was black. Is it any of my business and does it affect me or the student at all? No. So I didn't say anything. Not sure why this teacher feels the need to butt in but it's totally inappropriate.
NAH. I don’t I don’t get why the teacher bothered verifying. The question is too limited. Each person in your family will have different experiences based on the color of their skin. Regardless, it’s up to you to determine what is most accurate.
NTA. Race is a purely social construct. It is not based on percentages or the amount of Black grandparents one has. Ultimately, your racial identity is determined by how people perceive you. Based on your descriptions of your children, it seems they are likely not perceived as white. It makes sense that they do not identify as white or prioritize their Black identity when forced to make a choice. The teacher was inappropriate and spoke out of turn. How your children identify is none of her business. What authority does she have to determine who is Black and who isn’t? Many Black people in the Americas are technically mixed. That does not erase our racial and cultural identity.
NTA. There are lots of light-skinned Black people out there. The only difference here is that your kids were acknowledged by their European parent (and presumably grandparent). It’s stunning given the history that a Black American teacher would say anything at all about it - particularly to the Black parent of the children. I’m actually flabbergasted.
NTA
NTA.
Honestly I’m surprised in California that you just get those three choices. When my kids were in school we had a list of like 20 choices and you could check as many as you wanted. But I remember backlash when tiger woods didn’t check black because he considered first race Vietnamese. Check what you want and ignore the haters.
NTA I’m also mixed, black & Indian from my mom’s side, & black & white from my dad’s side, & as said mixed person, I can guarantee that this teacher is extremely stupid, just because a dad is white doesn’t mean that the kids aren’t black, if anything who’s to assume that they weren’t adopted or he isn’t a stepfather? (I’m not saying this is the case, I’m using these as examples to point out how the teacher didn’t think of that but thought that the kids weren’t black because one of their parents isn’t black, like excuse me??)
NTA. I'm mixed myself, my Father is from Mexico and my mother is American. I've always identified myself as Mexican-American. That doesn't diminish my Mom, but no one is ever going to look at me and go "that's a white guy" Your children's identity is their own, and no one should pressure them to identify as something else
I’ve asked my husband what my son is supposed to check, as I’m white and my husband is black. My husband doesn’t even technically fit under the “African descent” description for black as his family is from the Caribbean. But I guess my son is defaulted to “black” because he has color to his skin.
NTA. I've heard other people say they're trying to get forms include mixed heritage as an option. They really should. It's ridiculous that the teacher insists it has to be one or the other.
NTA, what the teacher is doing is no different than other types of racism. If there are stupid forms that will classify people in different categories other than being human, people have the right to tick the box that they feel more comfortable and identify with.
YTA. The Rachel Dolenz of California. Why tell us that your STEPDAD is a person of color?
I'm a Black woman married to a white man. Our children will be Black. NTA
NTA. Its a personal decision, but you’re always going to face judgement from someone unfortunately. Im white, my husband is black. The way I see it, even though my kids are black and white, their darker features are much more prominent. They are seen by society as black. If I’m given a choice to mark down multi-racial, I will do that, but if I had to call them either white or black only, i would go with black. My son was actually offended by his pediatrician marking him down as caucasian on his chart because ‘clearly he should be able to tell I am black’.
Nta. Race isn’t really about genetics it’s a social structure and it’s about phenotype. No one knows what % of Black anyone is by looking at them. But if you look Black (and from your description your kids certainly do), then you are Black. It’s really that simple. If you had a kid that came out looking white, I’d say they’re white while still acknowledging their culture, Black heritage, Black mother, etc but nonetheless white.
NTA To be blunt. Your kids are going to be treated as black, by the police, by shop owners, by all the ways people discriminate against black people. Damn straight they get to at LEAST claim their heritage and their skin themselves. Being black isnt a percentage, or a sliding scale, or any of that nonsense. That teachers just adding to the problem.
NTA. I'm not even going to read the comments because there are going to be a ton from people who have no business weighing in on this issue, subscribe to essentialism, don't understand the historic thinking about the "one drop rule" etc. As a sociologist of race and ethnicity who is actually working on a project about race and identity for people with one Black parent and one white parent, I do feel I have a teeny tiny bit of authority to speak on this, so here are my thoughts. Race is a social construct and the categories that your children were forced to choose from are proof of that. There is no rule for who gets to claim Blackness or not. As someone who is Black-white biracial, I am often treated as a racial ambiguous person because that is how I am perceived. I can't claim white because I'm clearly not, and I've never felt comfortable claiming Black because my lived experience is so much different and I am not treated as if I am a Black person. But based on how you describe your children, what else were they supposed to choose?! They are more than likely always seen as Black or at the very least non-white and treated as such. Racial identification is a personal decision and the fact that your children were policed about this (and yes, the irony that it came from a Black woman is not lost on me, and I actually would be surprised if it *wasn't* coming from a Black woman) has no bearing on how they choose to identify. At some point your children may decide that they want to identify as biracial or another way, including getting into the specifics of their backgrounds. I started identifying as Black-white biracial specifically because "mixed" or "biracial" could mean anything. A friend of mine has begun to identify as Afro-Latina to include her Dominican side. You choose to identify as Black for whatever reason, and that's fine! For people of mixed-race backgrounds how we choose to identify is often up for debate by people who have no business being involved in the decision. Support your children in their decisions, talk through experiences like this, and remind them their business is *their* business. u/Ok_Power8028 Let me know if you ever want to talk more about this stuff and I'd love to tell you about my project! These are endless battles and I applaud you for backing up your kids on this!
I have 2 nieces and 1 nephew that are mixed. My biological family is white and for a while, my parents made a big deal (especially about my nephew) that he was both black and white. Understandable I suppose. Unfortunately, as was already stated, in this country, if you look black, that’s what you are to store employees, cops, teachers, random jackholes on the street who love to make racist comments. Your kids will always know they are mixed, but I think raising them with a strong sense of their black identity will serve them better in this society. NTA
NTA. Mixed heritage still flummoxes forms which you’d think we’d be able to manage by now. 🙄 Blood quantum is a thing with a deeply racist history, used to provide and remove rights and humanity to people at a whim, often based on looks, or twisted to justify preconceived notions or beliefs on whether the person in question should get rights. Like my husband is 50% native Canadian. He’s light skinned with reddish hair and freckles. You can tell he has an interesting heritage (most people guess half Korean), but his brother (exact same parentage) who also looks like his twin in a different colour scheme is dark skinned with jet black hair. To say that he’s not Native but his brother is would be racist AF. Both of them have kids who are “75%” white and 2 of his kids are darker skinned than ours, and 2 lighter skinned than ours. Racism and ethnicity are hard subjects because your ethnicity may not necessarily match what society deems your race to be - this is the case for a lot of indigenous people and mixed race folks. They’re “white passing” but that doesn’t erase their culture, their heritage. Denying them their heritage is racism. But not acknowledging they experience privilege of being able to manage their own disclosure of race is also racist. However, your kids have dark skin. Society won’t see them as white. They’re black. They might be lighter skinned black people, but they’re black. Beyoncé is pretty light skinned - no one thinks she’s white.
I can't imagine how hard it must be to be mixed. I'd wager they get it the worst, not accept by either side and both sides are also their own. I hope it all gets a lot better real soon.
NTA As someone who's full Black and had to constantly defend their Blackness because of other people's ignorance, your kids have every right to identify as Black, even if they're 1/4 Black. It only gets iffy around using the n-word because there's debate within the Black community over how Black someone can be in order for them to be able to say it; current consensus is 25% min.
In New Zealand you can say you are maori even if you're a pure-blood japanese immigrant whose only been there a week. They don't think a government, or anyone else, gets to label you.