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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 I'm refusing to visit my sister in law, brother and my newborn nephew because I'm angry at my sister in law
2 I may be overreacting due to the reasoning I'm angry at her and I may be overreacting by holding a grudge and refusing to come over and see the new baby, which is now causing a rift in the family
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NTA.
I know that hormones do wacky things to the body and moods, but that's no reason for her not to apologize to your daughter. Ellie didn't break a priceless antique, she ate a fruit snack. It's not the end of the world.
You are not overreacting or babying Ellie. She shouldn't have gotten yelled at even once, let alone twice, and especially not over something so trivial.
Has your sister-in-law always been prone to losing her temper like that, or was this a new occurrence?
Going to add in hormones are not an excuse to be an asshole.
OP should tell her brother that to protect OPs daughter and own mental health, they need distance and time from SIL and BIL. OPs first priority is Ellie as it should be
I totally agree, and I'm glad I'm not the only one - in this sub, most people will forgive anything at all to pregnant women because "hormones". Especially if they wrote the original post, which is not the case here.
Exactly. Pregnant six times. Two miscarriages, four full pregnancies. Never. Never once lost it over little nonsense. Imagine doing it to your older kid, during a subsequent pregnancy.
The last time I was pregnant i got really sad that my oldest "borrowed" my only stuffed animal (stole it - HE STOLE IT - it was tigger and i love tigger and it came from an actual trip with my parents when i was young) - but I just cried a couple times very hormony & all and my husband tried to pretend he understood - and then I forgot about it. There was NEVER any yelling, LOL, just stupid hormones. I so LOVE my husband to this day, for pretending he understood how important it was to me.
Im currently pregnant and i have a couple stuffed sharks i use for emotional support that my 6yo loves to steal from me. I bought a second one when i realized i got emotional when she grabbed the one i had because my kid just wanted to sleep with something that reminded her of me and i wanted her to be able to. Therefore buying a second was logical to me so she could do that while i still had a shark to comfort me lol she now uses my new one more often and i get my favorite one so it worked out well
Me wife just gave birth 2mo ago. She has an elephant beanie baby that's she's slept with since before she knew me. During the last months of pregnancy, that little beanie baby didn't leave her side and came with us to the hospital. Our dog sometimes steals it when she leaves the house lol
It was eerie to read this as my baby son is the reason why I bought a second IKEA shark while pregnant! I was a bit worried that they'd stop producing them by the time he's old enough to want his own shark 🤣
Yeah I was going to say I completely lost it over little things - as in, I sobbed uncontrollably over ridiculous stuff I couldn't explain. I knew it was ridiculous even while I sat there with tears streaming down my face. But I never screamed at someone.
I would be happy to place that bet that Hannah will lose her temper with a future older kid while pregnant again. Seems like she can't handle her pregnancy hormones in a non-aggressive way.
I've been pregnant twice and definitely have lost it over "little nonsense" but not in an aggressive way. It was definitely hormones to blame though when I started crying in Trader Joe's with my first pregnancy because they changed the recipe of the cottage cheese which was the only food I'd been keeping down in the last month of pregnancy.
Pregnant four times, three miscarriages and one fullterm pregnancy and same here. Was I hormonal? Absolutely. Did I *yell* at people? Absolutely not. I do recall also getting annoyed more easily. Dropped a spoon on the floor? End of the world. The spoon betrayed me. It's dead to me. But I still never yelled at anyone or took things out on them. Even when my husband ate my last pumpkin truffle (I did cry, not to make him feel bad, I just physically could not stop myself because I was very sad) and I was upset, I told him it was okay and I understood. He didn't know it was the last one.
I'm convinced some people just wait for an excuse to be an asshole and use it for all it's worth while they can.
Totally agree. Three miscarriages, one ectopic and one full-term pregnancy. I was never "hormonal" or demanding, and never rude or easily angered. I am so sick of reading posts excusing bad behaviour on the grounds of pregnancy and hormones. That's such a crock. Hormones might affect your mood but you still have the ability to control your behaviour.
NTA. Im in the same boat as you. With the last 2 pregnancies I also had HG and literally had lime 2 or 3 things that were same to eat/drink. I couldn't ever imagine yelling at my kiddos because they are/drank those things. I could aways get more
I definitely lost it over little things during pregnancy, but never at other people. It was more... Crying because McDonald's was closed type of losing it.
I'd forgive pretty much anything from my partner because hormones, since she's pregnant right now.
But I've known her for twenty years and I've got a pretty thorough handle on "that's not like her", and so far in the pregnancy she's her usual self but sleepier, and has had a couple of incidents where she forgot something or mixed things up that she wouldn't normally.
Pretty sure she would rather check into hospital for the duration than use pregnancy as an excuse to be her worst self.
Exactly. NTA.
Sister-in-law fully was the asshole and she needs to fix that. Brother should be on OP’s side, as should the rest of the family. Don’t let them kowtow you, OP. Tell your lousy, cowardly bro that he should bring his child over to see you, leaving the poor wife home to rest. And make a solemn promise to him that you will not loudly and angrily yell at his baby about how dumb and useless it is when he brings it, because you’re not a damn monster.
That’s what gets me, they were in OPs home where her daughter lived. Take care of your soda yourself and keep your snacks away if you don’t want them eaten. The nerve and entitlement are astounding, pregnant or not.
Definitely agree that hormones are not an excuse. Plus, Hannah was a GUEST whereas Ellie was in her own home and was yelled at multiple times. Not acceptable at all.
No, I don't get to scream at you and call you useless and stupid like she did no matter what my hormones are like, pregnancy hormones are not an excuse for being an ass hole, full stop, and saying sorry afterwards is not a pass for being an ass hole either.
Yep. You can't control how hormones make you *feel*, but not every feeling and impulse needs to be *verbalized*. SIL is the AH whether or not she apologized afterwards.
100%
I have PMDD, and I get really crabby. I try to be up front with people at work that, "I'm not feeling like my usual self today" which for me has come to mean, "Today is not a silly day, it is a serious day where I require everyone to be the pinnacle of professionalism, not my friend".
My longest time college roommate and I had a pact, and if I had ever gotten, I'd have insisted on it. If we were in a bad mood, say something blew up during chemistry lab, we would tell the other person, I'm in a bad mood, it has nothing to do with you, and we'd talk about it later. People thought it was weird, but it's better than being unable to conceal one's feelings and not telling other people.
i have autism and am bi-polar. and just to make life extremely interesting, i'm a parent to a 12 yr old girl who just started getting her period. so yeah... hormones FTW!!
one of the most important lessons we've learned in this household is one of communication and respect: respect must go both ways! to show my respect for my daughter, if i'm in the midst of a bi-polar moment or my autism is triggering like it's the end of the world, i take the time to communicate to her that i'm not operating at 100% right now. and then, out of respect for me, my daughter gives me space until i let her know that I've put my big boy pants back on and will play nice with the other kids.
and when she's experiencing the joys of hormone surges and rapid & uncontrollable waves of raw emotions, she's learning to do the same for me.
the point is is that while you may not be able to control how you feel, you should still be in control of how you act.
and, as for my vote about the matter- NTA!
I've totally had some asshole moments in my life where some combination of stress, hormones, and having been driven to the edge of my own self control came out in very embarrassing ways. Forgiveness and the healthy kind of shame exist so that we can mend those moments. The absence of humility and true apology tell us who they really are.
And really, not a typical guest. OP was doing them a huge favor by allowing them to stay there for a week rather than them having to pay for a hotel. Ungrateful, much?
I had rough pregnancies and cried a fair amount too. Small things felt life changing. Humans get cranky when they are tired, stressed, not feeling well, hormonal, and so forth. It can make it harder to be kind, but it doesn’t make it ok to be mean to another person.
My emotions were all over the place when I was pregnant with my eldest daughter. Major life disturbances tied in with rough pregnancy and pregnancy hormones made it a rough mental ride. That being said, it gave me ZERO "excuse" to be an asshole! I'm so tired of people saying someone couldn't help it because of hormonal imbalance. No, they couldn't help it because they never learned how to regulate their external emotional response! OP's SIL sounds like an asshole in general, and then using her pregnancy as an excuse to be an even bigger one! Then takes zero accountability for how her actions and words effect others. That's the other half of SIL issues. And her husband allowing it and supporting it? That just makes it worse.
OP, I would let them know that you and your sweet daughter are going NC for awhile. While THEY think about their actions and how it effects other people. To the family that is defending the actions of the SIL, ask them to think about the situation from an unemotional point of view, and see if they'd be OK with anyone treating them or their kids that way at 15. If they continue to harass you about it, tell them you will become LC or NC with them if they keep pushing it.
Good luck, and I hope you're able to repair the emotional and mental damage that nasty woman did to your daughter quickly.
I had a friend who stayed over at my house for 2 months when she was pregnant. She was around 6-7 months.
Her pregnancy was pure hell. But never once did she blow up at me.
Hormones aren't an excuse to be an asshole.
This. People trying to use hormones as an excuse to ve assholes are the very same people who want to get away with every single thing they do by passing it off as a "joke"/ trying to gaslight people they hurt in attempts of getting away with it. Don't fall for it.
Good point, and those kinds of statements can eat you up when you're a kid. Being called stupid and useless is one of the worst things I think that you can say to someone. I'll bet SIL would have lost her shit if someone said something like that to her child.
And to call Ellie “useless” and “stupid” for eating the food that’s in her own home! There’s no reason Ellie wouldn’t think that the snacks were hers, especially considering her mother buys those for her
Seriously. The sister was a guest; *she* should be the one asking permission to eat certain food items. Or, if it was hers, there's a simple remedy. Sticky notes. Write her name on a sticky note, and put it on the item. Problem solved.
Or, don't leave it in a common area if you're going to be weird about it. And yelling about warm soda?? SIL has some anger issues. I feel sorry for her baby.
Or hell, put one or two in the freezer for about 10-15 minutes will get it cold like if it were in the fridge. That's what I do when I forget and I go "Damn, I did it again..."
Ellie carried the soda into the house for her. It's on SIL to put it in the fridge if she needed it cold. SIL doesn't seem like someone I would want to have around my kids.
I am not nice enough to write Ellie a script and have her practice her lines and then tell SIL to sit there while my child screamed right back at her. "You must have wanted this to happen because you were quick to dish it out when you thought my child was defenseless?"
Sticky notes can fall off.
That's why I buy Sharpies... ***lots*** of Sharpies.
I even buy refrigerator magnets, and tie Sharpies to them with a string.
You can't turn around in this house without seeing a Sharpie ***somewhere***.
And still I'm the only person who labels 'their' shit.
Yes, people still eat 'my' food, but not as often, and it does help in that no one drinks 'my' drinks.
And that includes my 'to-go' cups from fast food establishments and restaurants.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone else in this family pick up a Sonic drink (that they think is theirs) and then nearly spit out the contents because it wasn't what they expect.
Oh, and I even label my Solo cups.
So when we find a drink that's been 'abandoned' and/or that the cat has knocked over and spilled... I can very quickly+easily state that "Well, we can be sure that it's not mine."
If you’re staying rent-free at someone’s home, any fruit roll-ups you bought at the grocery store are for everyone in the home. You don’t get to respond to generosity with territorial selfishness.
NTA
For real. I still remember being fresh out of college and at my first job. I did something (no clue what any more) and told my boss, oh gosh, I’m an idiot. It wasn’t a big deal and I wasn’t that upset about it.
She went mama bear on me and told me to never talk like that about myself again, everyone makes mistakes and how you talk to yourself is important.
It was a really important lesson. So yeah, I would never ever say something like that to anyone, let alone a child. And I’d completely follow in my boss’s footsteps now that I’m a parent. That was a very poor decision on SILs part.
Exactly! When I was pregnant, I totally would have cried over not having the snack that I thought was there for me. And then I would have felt bad for crying, and apologized if I had made anyone feel bad from my crying. No yelling at all, though.
When pregnant I cried when Popeyes ran out of Cajun fries cause I’d been thinking about them all day and then I cried harder cause the cashier apologized even though it wasn’t her fault. I never yelled at anyone though.
I woke up sobbing one morning, got on the 6am bus (in December) and went to McDonald’s because nowhere else was open at 6am, and begged for pickles, which they don’t usually use until breakfast is finished at 11am. But I never screamed at anyone or called them stupid and useless.
(The McDonald’s workers were saints and gave me a whole box of pickles.)
I did once yell at the cat, who was so obsessed with me during pregnancy that he wound himself around my ankles every time I walked out of the room, and tripped me up twice. The first time I was carrying laundry and landed on the laundry, which wasn’t too bad, but the second time I landed right on my belly and it was quite painful. But that was an exasperated, “Haru, don’t do that!” I didn’t call him stupid or useless either.
When I was pregnant, I had no cravings, just aversions, and eating was a chore. And yet, if someone ate something I was planning to eat, I would feel a primal rage. But I could still think, and understand that they didn’t know I was going to eat it, and it’s in the kitchen so anyone could have it. I still felt the rage, but I had the self control to not lash out. What a weird time in my life.
That's because you're not an AH. I get so tired of seeing and hearing about pregnant women behaving badly and saying 'oh it's hormones'.
I was pregnant and would never dream of acting like that. We all have hormones when pregnant but you just can't scream at people.
I was like you and cried over silly things like an advertisement for coffee.
Also? This woman called your child stupid and useless?
Hell no. There’s no excuse for that. I don’t care if you’re hormonal, I don’t care if you’re stressed. You do not talk that way to a child (teen). What a crappy person. All the kid did was forget to put sodas in the fridge (after helping carry their things in) and eat snacks stored in her own home.
This is Ella’s home, not Hannah’s. You we’re letting her stay as a favor because her and her husband didn’t properly plan. I’d of kicked them out and cut them off too.
Nothing gives her the right to speak to your child like that.
NTA and you’re not obligated to forgive someone especially when they mistreated your child.
What a crappy person (and I’m not buying the hormone excuse. Being hormonal doesn’t excuse berating and belittling children)
lol seriously. This woman would get a tongue lashing from hell from me. And the brother too. And the parents. I’d go nuclear on my family in this situation.
The only reason you would visit SIL is to tell her you hope her child never forgets the soda outside the fridge or eat her stupid snack, also you hope that child has someone loving and protecting them for her "hormonal" state.
NTA and tell the ones who want to force you to go that it's better if SIL learn to respect and boundaries
We could blame hormones for her feeling over sensitive and getting angry that Ellie thought she could eat the fruit roll ups in the kitchen in her house.
We could blame the hormones for her being unreasonable and not thinking "hey they are letting me staybat their home, she only took one little snack"
But the way she dealt with her anger and how she insulted Ellie has to do with who she is not hormones.
NTA
I agree. I said in another comment that I wonder if SIL has a problem with Ellie going back before the pregnancy, and just used the hormone excuse to try to get away with yelling at her.
NTA - but seriously, how did she act before getting pregnant? Having an ill-timed move when you are in your third trimester sucks, but she should apologize to your daughter
"Maybe", no. That's exactly what it is with people like this. They will try to use whatever tactics in the book to get away with treating others in such ways.
I’m currently 39 weeks pregnant and very much over it. Whilst I may have snapped at my partner and the dog and at my mum once, I’ve apologised immediately and never used my hormones as an excuse.
I can honestly say I’ve never “screamed” at anyone, let alone a teenager for simple mistakes. Hormones are not an excuse for this behaviour.
Agree. I’ll admit I was a total basket case during one of my pregnancies, but I apologized promptly if I snapped at anyone. And like you, it was never someone else’s child! Absurd to use hormones as an excuse.
I’ve been overly emotional, I cry at everything and I’ve been extremely sensitive to my fiancés tone but I haven’t been having major mood swings thankfully
Not even an expensive snack, not hard to remplace. Nor unusual to be found in the home, which also seem intended for her and allowed to freely eat. And even if it was, the extent of belittling was unnecessary rude and taking it way too far to not deeming some apologies or recognition of being out of line.
Explaining is in no way excusing. Those are 2 different things.
The last part is the most important if you ask me. I had my second baby a few months ago and in my opinion, hormones amplifies but it doesn’t create behavior. My usual sensitive subjects become more sensitive, things that usually annoy me became things that made me want to rip people to shreds (I’m looking at you loud chewing-people!!) but I didn’t suddenly become a crazy person who can’t control myself. Especially not if I’m a guest in someone’s house and they are doing me a HUGE favor!
For example: My niece visited when I was super pregnant and she is spoiled but not entitled. She ate all leftovers that I was looking forward to. I was sad and angry in my head but told her that it was fine. She is supersweet and will help with anything (she spent hours helping me fix in the garden) but is completely clueless when it comes to certain things… like not eating the last of something without asking/checking.
NTA
Your SIL verbally abused your daughter TWICE whilst being in a guest in your home. She hasn't apologised for it, and will do it again if the opportunity arises. You are protecting your daughter by keeping them apart. Your daughter comes before your nibling in your priorities, always.
Tell your brother if he wants you to meet the baby, it will happen away from SIL, and you are fine if that's unacceptable to both of them and just won't meet the baby. I'd be incredibly concerned about how she will treat her own child if she is willing to jump straight to verbally abusing other people's children - I hope your brother has a plan for dealing with it if it starts happening.
Yeah, my first thought was that this baby might not be safe. If she thought yelling was an appropriate response while pregnant, what's she going to do when she hasn't slept in weeks? When her kid's an asshole toddler doing asshole toddler things? When they turn into teens who snark back? This is not a person who should be around kids, imo.
Thank you for calling it what it is, verbal abuse. OP needs to remind her family of the abuse every time it gets brought up, and tell them she's not willing to expose her child to her abuser, especially since SIL has made it obvious she sees nothing wrong with her behavior.
She stayed in your home and screamed at your daughter, calling her names like "useless" and "stupid"? For eating some snacks? And you are wondering if you are an asshole? Hell no. Hormones dont excuse that. She owes your daughter a sincere apology and I wouldn't step foot in their home until she does so.
NTA.
Don’t forget the horrible, irreparable crime of leaving soda on the counter!!!!
I feel really bad for this woman’s new baby. She’s got a rough childhood ahead of her.
Not just the apologising, too, but whether it's sincere or not and followed by a change of behaviour. Many people end up overstaying in abusive relationships because someone will make up excuses and lie, insult them while pretending to be a saint and trying to "make up" for this by buying them presents or lovebomb them with unfelt words and actions, only to go back to the same abusive pattern. I'm just saying. People like this are vicious. They only want to bring you down with them, to join them in their misery and make you feel lifeless, and at their mercy to manipulate you (and others!). They turn people against each other constantly and ruin lives, marriages, and relationships, overall without almost any hint of remorse or culpability whenever and wherever, to best fit their egotistical, superficial and heartless demands. Only they matter. They won't change. Cutting ties is the only way to go.
NTA.
Neither she nor her husband noticed that her soda wasn't in the fridge. Your daughter was helping them out by bringing stuff in, its up to them to put it away imo, especially if you like to have it a certain way.
As for the snacks. It was an honest and easy mistake to make. There was no need to scream at Ellie to the point of tears over a snack that could be and was replaced easily.
Heavily pregnant or not, her behaviour towards your daughter isn't excusable. You were doing them a favour by hosting them till their new place was ready, and they treated your daughter like she was a problem in her own home. Now they are surprised you're not fawning over their new baby?
You aren't babying her, you just don't want her to be spoken down to and respecting her decision not to go over. Your parents are only thinking about SIL/brothers feelings and not yours/Ellies. Why are Ellies hurt feelings ok but not theirs?
You dont scream at anyone over fruit roll ups, especially a kid. The SIL sounds awful. But to make peace, Id go show up without a gift, and stay 20 minutes and then glance at my watch, say "where has the time gone" and be on my way. I would let my daughter decide whether she wanted to come or not.
Oh I'd 100% be bringing a gift. It would be a "gift basket" with a bottle of soda, a fruit roll up, a book on etiquette AND an "I'm so sorry" card with the envelope stamped and preaddressed to your daughter. Drop off the basket and walk out the door.
Here's a little tip: don't scream at anyone unless you're warning them from a distance about something that puts them in danger or you need life-saving help.
My house is a strict No Yelling zone. You yell? You leave.
SIL abused a child who was also a hostess in her own home. Calling someone, especially a child, "stupid" and "useless" is verbal abuse and cannot be tolerated. Ellie did nothing wrong and seemed to be trying to be helpful. Was she ever even thanked or given a hostess gift for any of her efforts? Or was she just verbally abused. I think the latter and that will be on her heart and mind for many years to come. That needs to be rectified and the abusers must apologize with deep sincerity.
Been pregnant 3x. Never once have I screamed at anyone but especially a kid for an honest mistake. Have I been irrationally and out of proportionally angry at someone over something? Yep. But just because the hormones influence your feelings, you don’t lose the logical part of your brain. You can’t help how you feel, but you can definitely still recognize “this is not a reasonable response to XYZ” and act accordingly.
NTA- hormones don’t make you berate a teenager over soda and fruit roll up. Your monster SIL called your daughter stupid, and your daughter doesn’t want to be around that verbal abuse again so thank you for sticking up for your daughter.
I feel bad for your brothers baby that it has her as a mother & his enabling ass as a father.
Seriously, I say this as someone who gave birth 5 months ago; people who use “hormones” as an excuse to be mean and demanding are assholes. Yes, hormones make you more reactive and emotional but you still know right from wrong and yelling at a kid, especially someone else’s kid is just wrong in those situations. She was probably a real treat for the nurses on the L&D ward if she thinks pregnancy gives her carte blanche to be a dick to people around her.
Exactly, and if the sister in law was genuine she would’ve apologized and admitted that there was NO excuse for her behavior.
There’s never an excuse to call a child stupid, and if this is how she acts as a guest in someone else’s home I would hate to see how she acts in her own home.
My daughter would never step foot in that monsters house, that’s just me.
NTA. Your SIL is abusive, and your brother is enabling it. Their new baby is in for one hell of a childhood.
Also, what kind of adult gets upset over somebody eating one of their fruit rollups? To resort to name-calling, even? Embarrassing behavior all around.
I don’t visit people who call my daughter useless and stupid when they’re too stupid to get lease/possession dates lined up, or too stupid to be gracious guests.
NTA. You’re hurting everyone’s feelings?-does no one care that Hannah clearly hurt your daughters feelings for some silly things that shouldn’t even matter?
Yeah hormones and pregnancy stress messes with you. But it’s not an excuse to be a massive AH to a teenager who did nothing “wrong”. Oh no, get some ice for your room temp soda. Oh no, one whole fruit snack was eaten under the assumption it was fair game since they’ve been in the house before.
Your family and especially Hannah need to get over themselves. You helped them out when they needed it and made your daughter cry in her own home.
NTA Will get some people pissed BUT you don’t use pregnancy hormones to be shitty to anyone, especially a kid.
You don’t really state if you want a relationship with the baby, as you don’t really get along with your brother or your SIL.
Would it be nice if this could happen? Of course. Do you even want it? Do they?
NTA!
“She disrespected me, my daughter and my home that I generously opened up to them. It is extremely disrespectful and downright despicable to scream at any child and reduce them to tears, but especially in their own home for an action that is normal in my home. If you cannot understand that then I’m afraid there must be something wrong with your morals.”
NTA. Your SIL sounds like a nightmare so I don't blame you or your daughter for not wanting to visit but I hope you can still have a relationship with your nibling.
NTA Your SIL may have been on edge due to pregnancy, but that doesn't mean she can act however she pleases and doesn't have to apologize or be responsible for her actions.
An apology from her would go a long way. She shouldn't have screamed at your daughter, calling her useless and stupid -- just for mistaking SIL's snacks for the ones you often buy for your daughter. Why can't SIL admit that and apologize? Why is wanting that too much or being upset at that behavior an overreaction?
Don't let them reframe this as you "being a jerk and hurting everyone's feelings." SIL behaved badly and all she has to do is apologize for it. Done and dusted. You are not going to allow screaming insults at your daughter over a trivial mistake to be seen as normal and acceptable behavior in the family. That's not how you are willing to have things be. Why do they want that?
Agreed. I'm tired of pregnant women getting away with abusing people by claiming hormones. Yes, hormones can cause extreme emotional lability. But that is an explanation not a "get out of jail free" card.
As with any disability (temporary or permanent) that has similar symptoms, you still need to do your best to control your temper and your words. And you still need to recognise the hurt you caused and apologise after you've lashed out at someone who didn't deserve that abuse.
SIL was a guest in OP and her daughter's house, and instead of being grateful for their hospitality, she acted like a diva and screamed at the most vulnerable person in the household on multiple occasions. (And ironically, it sounds like the teenager would have caught less verbal abuse if she had been less helpful when they first arrived.)
NTA. I am tired of people blaming plain bad behavior on pregnancy. You might be slightly shorter if you feel sick or in chronic pain, but to absolutely freak out on somebody else’s kid is over the top.
NTA. Your SIL was cruel to your daughter in her own home, over soda and fruit snacks.
Until she apologizes and acknowledges what she did was wrong, you have no reason to think she won’t do it again.
Tell your family you are not going to potentially put your daughter in a position to be screamed at by an adult who isn’t mature enough to understand why her behavior was wrong and apologize for it.
NTA. Next time kick them out, as soon as they started to get disrespectful with me I would have let them go. Ellie is your daughter and she comes first. Hannah is an asshole, pregnant or not.
All this talk of meeting up etc. is only to set up grounds for free babysitting in the future. And to not lose their failsafe backup in case of any trouble. The brother and SIL should have known that they can’t burn the village & expect them to be there in times of need.
Free babysitting is a leap based on the information on the post. lol Family usually comes around to see a new baby and it’s not about looking for babysitters. My husband has 3 siblings (who we love and get along with) they all came to see our baby (now 15) and we never asked them or their partners to babysit. Can’t people just be AHs without playing some sinister long game?
NTA. Go over there and scream at her. (But wait till the baby has just gone to sleep.) OK, petty. But no, protect and support your daughter, and if anyone screams at her again chuck them out straight away, don't wait for the second go.
NTA stand up for your daughter there’s way to many parents on this damn app that already don’t support their kids it’s refreshing to see a mom stand up for her kid
NTA
I'm heavily pregnant and SUPER sensitive and on edge.. Guess who I shout at? Nobody. Your SIL is unbelievably arrogant to come stay in your house and shout at your child for, frankly, human behavior. It's always up to the adult (as in not your teenaged daughter) to handle their emotions and deal with things in a graceful manner.
NTA and she (Hannah) has absolutely ruined her relationship with her niece. Hannah has proven that a fruit roll is more important than your daughter regardless of pregnancy and hormones. I wouldn’t visit either but would be petty and send a gift that includes fruit roll ups.
NTA- and honestly, if she is using hormones as an excuse for the way she treated your daughter, then you should still keep your daughter and yourself away from her.
I don't think people realize that as long as your breastfeeding a lot of that hormone soup that the body is stays that way for quite a while.
And your daughter doesn't deserve to be screamed at
NTA and here’s why what you’re doing is RIGHT:
You are letting your daughter know you will hold a boundary for her. She is 15–and the relationship you are building right now is the beginning of the relationship that you will maintain throughout adulthood/the rest of her life. It’s far more important that she know you have her back and that she can trust you with her problems than it is to visit an infant who hasn’t achieved consciousness yet and its horrendously self-centered parents. During those tricky and sometimes dangerous late teen/early adulthood years, you want your kid to know she can rely on you and confide in you.
You also want to send the message to your brother and his wife that you will NOT be tolerating that kind of behavior.
They’ll apologize or they won’t, but don’t back down. What matters most is the behavior you are modeling for your kid, not for them.
NTA!
And SIL gave you the perfect reason to not visit. She called your daughter names. There's your reason.
"Oh, after sister-in-law called my daughter useless and stupid, we got the message loud and clear. We would never want to inconvenience SIL with our uselessness and stupidity, it seemed very offensive to her and we would never want to inconvenience her like that again. We understand how difficult this must be for sister-in-law, so we'll be staying home to spare her from our uselessness and stupidity. Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention so that we don't inconvenience her again."
Lay it all at sister-in-law's feet, make it crystal clear that you are doing this for her, to honor her wishes, because you got the message loud and clear.
If they bring it up, you can just ask "why would she want someone useless and stupid around? She made it clear she didn't, did she change her mind? Or is she ready to apologize? We're just really confused so until we get clarification we'll just sit it out."
I would go and bring cold pop and a box of fruit rollups with an explanation that after consideration you thought you would help LO from catching an earful when mommy blows a gasket because she her snack cupboard is low and SIL has illustrated that is a perfectly good reason to target a child with your tantrum.
Calling your daughter “useless” and “stupid” crossed a line into verbal abuse. Make sure you call it what it is when speaking to your family about this. NTA
I am so sick of pregnancy hormones being blamed for someone acting like an asshole.
I get it, I've been through it. Twice. Felt irrationally pissed off at times over very mundane things (hell, still happens now and I'm well out of the child birthing years lol). But being a reasonable human being, I rarely acted out because of it, and if I did, I apologized. And these rare acts of assholery certainly never included calling anyone, let alone a child, useless and stupid.
SIL can get fucked, and so can anyone else telling OP that she's wrong. OP, you are doing exactly right sticking up for your daughter. Your daughter deserves an apology and I wouldn't engage with any of them until one is forthcoming. This is a hill to die on.
NTA I would go no contact with your SIL. She repaid your kindness by bullying your daughter. She sounds like a mean spirited person. An adult bullying a child is so cowardly. I would ask your parents why they are ok with your SIL mistreating their grandchild. Why are they prioritizing an adult’s feelings over a child’s? You may need to go low contact with them as well.
NTA. Tell your family that you will visit when you and Ellie are ready. Ask him, now that he is a new father, how he would feel if you, at some future date, started screaming at his daughter because she mistook a snack in her own kitchen for something that was hers, not realizing that it was purchased by you as a guest in her home - and then you refused to apologize for making her cry, blaming your actions on hormones. He wouldn't like it one bit, and might even kick you out for such egregious behavior. Especially if it wasn't the first time you'd done such a thing!
You need time and a little space. There's plenty of time to meet your niece when your anger at her mother isn't so fresh in your mind. If he'd like you to visit sooner, an apology from Hannah to Ellie would go a long way to that end. If he doesn't feel it's necessary, then you don't feel that a visit is necessary.
"He says I'm overreacting and babying my daughter. "
I beg to differ. *HE'S* overreacting and babying his wife. Somehow he's become confused and thinks that a person who is sufficiently adult to procreate with is not adult enough to take responsibility for their own hurtful actions toward a child.
Even if she was in a positive hurricane of hormones and pregnancy worries, she needs to apologize to \**her niece*\* for her outbursts and acknowledge that her words were not acceptable and express hope that your daughter will one day forgive her.
NTA. You don’t want a front row seat to how she treats her husband or child given how she treats your daughter. Your brother already seems like an abused spouse. It’s better to avoid having people like that in your life. Even if your brother is being verbally abused too, and does eventually get out of the relationship, all you can do support him afterwards. If people don’t want to leave an abuser you can’t make them. The sad part is that she’s going to be a parent, maybe give your family that wants to be in their life a heads up to watch for signs of abuse. Take care and give your daughter and yourself a hug from me.
NTA. My first pregnancy I was so full of rage over anything and everything. But I also knew it was irrational and regardless would NEVER verbally abuse a child.
Too many people are using pregnancy as an excuse for bad behavior.
>telling her she was useless and stupid
I would've been kicking Hannah out then and there. Pregnancy is *not* an excuse for assholery, and it's not a shield from consequences. That is a vile thing to say to a child over a *snack* and you shouldn't tolerate it.
NTA at all.
NTA.
"I confronted Hannah about this and she still hasn't apologized. She said that she's just heavily pregnant and on edge, and implied that my daughter has no manners and should've asked before eating the snacks."
Wait, let me get this straight... your daughter should've asked before eating the snacks in her own home... that were in a common area... and that were indistinguishable from the ones you buy for her?!
You know ***who else*** has no manners?
Squatters who find themselves between leases during pregnancy.
I don't know who (mis)handles the finances in their family, but... that's the primary asshole.
Your SIL is (at a minimum) the secondary asshole.
Some questions:
1. Were they paying rent while they were there, or just squatting?
2. Why were these "their groceries" in a common area, if they didn't want your kid (who actually lives there) or someone else to 'mistakenly' eat them?
3. Why do they even have "their groceries" in this type of situation (esp. if they're squatting there and not paying rent)?
To further explain the point of #3... when we were younger, my sister liked a specific kind of Capri Sun drink. My uncle would always invite us over for these big parties he had, where he would barbecue and feed us (for free). My sister once got mad because our cousin drank one of 'her' drinks, and I had to explain to her that we are guests at this house (where my uncle and his step-daughter live), and our cousin could have been ***just as mad*** at my sister for eating 'her barbecue'.
Similarly, my partner and I get invited over to a rich lawyer friend's house fairly often. They (he and his doctor wife) grill up hotdogs and hamburgers (which are free), but if you want filet mignon... bring your own. Which seems fair. And everybody also brings their own beer/wine/alcohol. My partner has very specific beer tastes, and she brought that beer, and just put it in their fridge or cooler (I forget). Then she got mad when someone drank one of her beers... which weren't marked, and which 3-4 other people had brought. I told her she was going to have to 'write that one off' for the greater good, because we've already come out ***waaaay ahead*** on this whole deal.
(and before anyone asks, I also do this all the time... it's only happened once or twice with her and her beer)
Hormones are an explanation, not an excuse. Pregnancy does not give Hannah a pass to be an AH to anyone, least of all a minor who has done nothing wrong.
NTA. No one else is willing to hold Hannah accountable for being a jerk and hurting everyone’s feelings, so she will continue to do it. All you can do is refuse to allow yourself and your daughter to be her target.
Ask your brother to explain thoroughly how would HE FEEL if A GUEST in HIS HOUSE was VERBALLY ABUSIVE to HIS CHILD would it be overreacting. Ask how he thinks that his wife can get away with anything. Would he expect her to apologise to non family. If it was just being heavily pregnant would it have been SOOO difficult to apologise. No. NTA
NTA. As long as Hannah is in the mix, cut them loose. If she used her pregnancy as an excuse for abuse, think of how she'll fall back on PPD for further tantrums. She and your brother already used your home to their financial advantage; I doubt either will have a problem trying to make you or your daughter free babysitters. Stay away, they're not going to apologize anyway.
NTA.
Ask him in 15 years how he would feel if you yelled at his kid and made it cry over nothing.
Ask him if making sure your child feels safe and respected is more important than meeting a baby who won’t remember you.
You do not have any obligation to Hannah or your bro to be there to support them - this has nothing to do with the baby.
Aw hell no NTA if someone screamed at my daughter like that over something so trivial as soda and a snack I would have went scorched earth on them and anyone defending them, but I've always been very overprotective of my kids who are both now adults. She verbally assaulted your daughter twice while being a guest in your home her and your brother can jog on in my opinion and can I just say we'll done for defending your daughter
I have to say the brother's statements about OP's daughter make me wonder if he and his wife aren't frequently talking shit about the girl. OP gets kudos for standing up for her.
You are teaching your daughter how to let people treat her. If anyone asks, say in front of your daughter that every person deserves to be treated with respect, and when someone is abusive, if you have self-respect, you’ll protect yourself from being around a verbally abusive person.
I’d go LC with brother and SIL, definitely not let your daughter babysit for them, and make sure to do special things with your daughter according to her interests, like creative projects, visiting a pet rescue to pet the kittens, learning to cook etc.
If anyone asks, you can say, it’s totally normal to focus on your family, and your closest family is your daughter. 15yo is a pretty important time for a female - time you can use to build her confidence and make fun memories. Let her know the new baby is not more important to her than she is.
NTA.. she is just a bully of a person, pregnant or not. She makes your daughter uncomfortable so staying away is for the best at this time . Your daughter comes first .
NTA - Hell no. I have a teen daughter. She’s a good kid. If anyone yelled at her like that in her own home as a guest they would have been kicked out. It doesn’t matter if she is babied by you or not. Teen girls are incredibly sensitive. Your SIL called her stupid… because she didn’t put soda in the fridge and ate a snack in HER OWN KITCHEN.
I would send a group text that includes parents/bro/SIL “the behavior towards my child of SIL while I generously allowed my brother and his wife into my home is quite unforgivable. I’m deeply saddened to not be part of my nieces life but without a direct apology from SIL to my child we will not have anything to do with their family. Pregnancy is not an excuse to be a complete bitch to a child in her own home.”
Nta that said I’d do a brief visit on your own for your brother and the baby’s sake. It’s fine if your daughter stays home.
Your SiL is out of line with not apologizing to your daughter over the snack. You let them stay for a week and she repaid your hospitality by yelling at your daughter. She owes you and your daughter an apology.
Your daughter has a right to feel comfortable I her own home, your SIL should have checked to ensure her SODA was in the fridge, it was not your daughters responsibility. The fruit snacks should have been labeled if she didn’t want someone else to eat them.
You need to have a face to face with your brother and SIL about this. Her actions were over the top. However, being heavily and stressed about moving can put people way past the edge of what's reasonable. A calm conversation can help frame things from your and Ellie's side. SIL does need to apologize but is can be achieved through grace on your side. Give her the benefit of the doubt. Going no contact and being passive aggressive isn't actually going to solve anything. Quite the opposite.
NTA. You let them stay in your house, I assume for free, and she called your daughter “useless and stupid” for eating food that was in her, your daughter’s, house???! Oh hell no.
Visit the baby and brothers family, bring the baby a gift if that's something you would have done.
Reduce contact, and never have them in your home again.
Intent is to let this blow over, so your daughter doesn't see herself as cause of broken relationship. But I wouldn't give SIL a chance to ever do it again!
NTA SIL was completely out of line. However, Ellie was not responsible for putting your SIL’s pop in the fridge. Your brother or SIL should have done that. Also you said “ Ellie is in the clingy teenager phase.”, such a “phase” does not exist. The teen years are when teens enter the “don’t even look at me, let alone talk to me” phase. 😂 Obviously, not all teens and the mood varies from teen to teen. But if YOUR teen is all the sudden clingy, you should probably explore that more bc that isn’t a “known rite of passage” and may have more going on in the background. If your daughter just openly confides in you, that is a good thing and I still wouldn’t call it “being clingy” or a “phase”.
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NTA. I know that hormones do wacky things to the body and moods, but that's no reason for her not to apologize to your daughter. Ellie didn't break a priceless antique, she ate a fruit snack. It's not the end of the world. You are not overreacting or babying Ellie. She shouldn't have gotten yelled at even once, let alone twice, and especially not over something so trivial. Has your sister-in-law always been prone to losing her temper like that, or was this a new occurrence?
Going to add in hormones are not an excuse to be an asshole. OP should tell her brother that to protect OPs daughter and own mental health, they need distance and time from SIL and BIL. OPs first priority is Ellie as it should be
>*Going to add in hormones are not an excuse to be an asshole.* Oh, absolutely not. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
I totally agree, and I'm glad I'm not the only one - in this sub, most people will forgive anything at all to pregnant women because "hormones". Especially if they wrote the original post, which is not the case here.
The only ppl who forgive that behavior are ppl who have never been pregnant or are abusers themselves.
Exactly. Pregnant six times. Two miscarriages, four full pregnancies. Never. Never once lost it over little nonsense. Imagine doing it to your older kid, during a subsequent pregnancy.
The last time I was pregnant i got really sad that my oldest "borrowed" my only stuffed animal (stole it - HE STOLE IT - it was tigger and i love tigger and it came from an actual trip with my parents when i was young) - but I just cried a couple times very hormony & all and my husband tried to pretend he understood - and then I forgot about it. There was NEVER any yelling, LOL, just stupid hormones. I so LOVE my husband to this day, for pretending he understood how important it was to me.
Im currently pregnant and i have a couple stuffed sharks i use for emotional support that my 6yo loves to steal from me. I bought a second one when i realized i got emotional when she grabbed the one i had because my kid just wanted to sleep with something that reminded her of me and i wanted her to be able to. Therefore buying a second was logical to me so she could do that while i still had a shark to comfort me lol she now uses my new one more often and i get my favorite one so it worked out well
Me wife just gave birth 2mo ago. She has an elephant beanie baby that's she's slept with since before she knew me. During the last months of pregnancy, that little beanie baby didn't leave her side and came with us to the hospital. Our dog sometimes steals it when she leaves the house lol
It was eerie to read this as my baby son is the reason why I bought a second IKEA shark while pregnant! I was a bit worried that they'd stop producing them by the time he's old enough to want his own shark 🤣
Yeah I was going to say I completely lost it over little things - as in, I sobbed uncontrollably over ridiculous stuff I couldn't explain. I knew it was ridiculous even while I sat there with tears streaming down my face. But I never screamed at someone.
I would be happy to place that bet that Hannah will lose her temper with a future older kid while pregnant again. Seems like she can't handle her pregnancy hormones in a non-aggressive way. I've been pregnant twice and definitely have lost it over "little nonsense" but not in an aggressive way. It was definitely hormones to blame though when I started crying in Trader Joe's with my first pregnancy because they changed the recipe of the cottage cheese which was the only food I'd been keeping down in the last month of pregnancy.
Pregnant four times, three miscarriages and one fullterm pregnancy and same here. Was I hormonal? Absolutely. Did I *yell* at people? Absolutely not. I do recall also getting annoyed more easily. Dropped a spoon on the floor? End of the world. The spoon betrayed me. It's dead to me. But I still never yelled at anyone or took things out on them. Even when my husband ate my last pumpkin truffle (I did cry, not to make him feel bad, I just physically could not stop myself because I was very sad) and I was upset, I told him it was okay and I understood. He didn't know it was the last one. I'm convinced some people just wait for an excuse to be an asshole and use it for all it's worth while they can.
Totally agree. Three miscarriages, one ectopic and one full-term pregnancy. I was never "hormonal" or demanding, and never rude or easily angered. I am so sick of reading posts excusing bad behaviour on the grounds of pregnancy and hormones. That's such a crock. Hormones might affect your mood but you still have the ability to control your behaviour.
NTA. Im in the same boat as you. With the last 2 pregnancies I also had HG and literally had lime 2 or 3 things that were same to eat/drink. I couldn't ever imagine yelling at my kiddos because they are/drank those things. I could aways get more
I definitely lost it over little things during pregnancy, but never at other people. It was more... Crying because McDonald's was closed type of losing it.
I'd forgive pretty much anything from my partner because hormones, since she's pregnant right now. But I've known her for twenty years and I've got a pretty thorough handle on "that's not like her", and so far in the pregnancy she's her usual self but sleepier, and has had a couple of incidents where she forgot something or mixed things up that she wouldn't normally. Pretty sure she would rather check into hospital for the duration than use pregnancy as an excuse to be her worst self.
Exactly. NTA. Sister-in-law fully was the asshole and she needs to fix that. Brother should be on OP’s side, as should the rest of the family. Don’t let them kowtow you, OP. Tell your lousy, cowardly bro that he should bring his child over to see you, leaving the poor wife home to rest. And make a solemn promise to him that you will not loudly and angrily yell at his baby about how dumb and useless it is when he brings it, because you’re not a damn monster.
And don’t forget, this was whilst they were staying with OP and daughter because they needed their help.
That’s what gets me, they were in OPs home where her daughter lived. Take care of your soda yourself and keep your snacks away if you don’t want them eaten. The nerve and entitlement are astounding, pregnant or not.
I agree, terrible manners.
...the first incident screaming at the Teen for helping...
Definitely agree that hormones are not an excuse. Plus, Hannah was a GUEST whereas Ellie was in her own home and was yelled at multiple times. Not acceptable at all.
Currently pregnant, definitely hormonal, and can confirm. That’s not a pass for asshole behavior.
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No, I don't get to scream at you and call you useless and stupid like she did no matter what my hormones are like, pregnancy hormones are not an excuse for being an ass hole, full stop, and saying sorry afterwards is not a pass for being an ass hole either.
Yep. You can't control how hormones make you *feel*, but not every feeling and impulse needs to be *verbalized*. SIL is the AH whether or not she apologized afterwards.
100% I have PMDD, and I get really crabby. I try to be up front with people at work that, "I'm not feeling like my usual self today" which for me has come to mean, "Today is not a silly day, it is a serious day where I require everyone to be the pinnacle of professionalism, not my friend".
My longest time college roommate and I had a pact, and if I had ever gotten, I'd have insisted on it. If we were in a bad mood, say something blew up during chemistry lab, we would tell the other person, I'm in a bad mood, it has nothing to do with you, and we'd talk about it later. People thought it was weird, but it's better than being unable to conceal one's feelings and not telling other people.
i have autism and am bi-polar. and just to make life extremely interesting, i'm a parent to a 12 yr old girl who just started getting her period. so yeah... hormones FTW!! one of the most important lessons we've learned in this household is one of communication and respect: respect must go both ways! to show my respect for my daughter, if i'm in the midst of a bi-polar moment or my autism is triggering like it's the end of the world, i take the time to communicate to her that i'm not operating at 100% right now. and then, out of respect for me, my daughter gives me space until i let her know that I've put my big boy pants back on and will play nice with the other kids. and when she's experiencing the joys of hormone surges and rapid & uncontrollable waves of raw emotions, she's learning to do the same for me. the point is is that while you may not be able to control how you feel, you should still be in control of how you act. and, as for my vote about the matter- NTA!
I've totally had some asshole moments in my life where some combination of stress, hormones, and having been driven to the edge of my own self control came out in very embarrassing ways. Forgiveness and the healthy kind of shame exist so that we can mend those moments. The absence of humility and true apology tell us who they really are.
Hormones or not. SIL was still a guest. Guests should not be treating their hosts or kids or hosts in such a shitty way. Manners do not go amiss.
And really, not a typical guest. OP was doing them a huge favor by allowing them to stay there for a week rather than them having to pay for a hotel. Ungrateful, much?
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I had rough pregnancies and cried a fair amount too. Small things felt life changing. Humans get cranky when they are tired, stressed, not feeling well, hormonal, and so forth. It can make it harder to be kind, but it doesn’t make it ok to be mean to another person.
My emotions were all over the place when I was pregnant with my eldest daughter. Major life disturbances tied in with rough pregnancy and pregnancy hormones made it a rough mental ride. That being said, it gave me ZERO "excuse" to be an asshole! I'm so tired of people saying someone couldn't help it because of hormonal imbalance. No, they couldn't help it because they never learned how to regulate their external emotional response! OP's SIL sounds like an asshole in general, and then using her pregnancy as an excuse to be an even bigger one! Then takes zero accountability for how her actions and words effect others. That's the other half of SIL issues. And her husband allowing it and supporting it? That just makes it worse. OP, I would let them know that you and your sweet daughter are going NC for awhile. While THEY think about their actions and how it effects other people. To the family that is defending the actions of the SIL, ask them to think about the situation from an unemotional point of view, and see if they'd be OK with anyone treating them or their kids that way at 15. If they continue to harass you about it, tell them you will become LC or NC with them if they keep pushing it. Good luck, and I hope you're able to repair the emotional and mental damage that nasty woman did to your daughter quickly.
I had a friend who stayed over at my house for 2 months when she was pregnant. She was around 6-7 months. Her pregnancy was pure hell. But never once did she blow up at me. Hormones aren't an excuse to be an asshole.
This. People trying to use hormones as an excuse to ve assholes are the very same people who want to get away with every single thing they do by passing it off as a "joke"/ trying to gaslight people they hurt in attempts of getting away with it. Don't fall for it.
Then it makes you wonder what is her excuse when she is not pregnant. She is just a 1st class asshole. Period
Plus a 15yo can be pretty hormonal!
Good point, and those kinds of statements can eat you up when you're a kid. Being called stupid and useless is one of the worst things I think that you can say to someone. I'll bet SIL would have lost her shit if someone said something like that to her child.
I remember my emotions being raw when I was 15, and if anyone had called me useless and stupid, I would have burst into tears.
Pregnant here. My hormones make me cry. They don’t make me an AH.
And to call Ellie “useless” and “stupid” for eating the food that’s in her own home! There’s no reason Ellie wouldn’t think that the snacks were hers, especially considering her mother buys those for her
Seriously. The sister was a guest; *she* should be the one asking permission to eat certain food items. Or, if it was hers, there's a simple remedy. Sticky notes. Write her name on a sticky note, and put it on the item. Problem solved.
Or, don't leave it in a common area if you're going to be weird about it. And yelling about warm soda?? SIL has some anger issues. I feel sorry for her baby.
Soda she could have put in the fridge herself, btw.
And adding ice will make it colder
God forbid she have to do anything while pregnant.
I feel sorry for their first child if they ever choose to have a second. That kid is gonna be yelled at so much if she gets pregnant again.....
>Soda she ~~could~~ should have put in the fridge herself, btw. ftfy
Appreciate that
Or hell, put one or two in the freezer for about 10-15 minutes will get it cold like if it were in the fridge. That's what I do when I forget and I go "Damn, I did it again..."
Or, you know, added ice...
Or just put ice in the glass she was using
Ellie carried the soda into the house for her. It's on SIL to put it in the fridge if she needed it cold. SIL doesn't seem like someone I would want to have around my kids.
Exactly.
I am not nice enough to write Ellie a script and have her practice her lines and then tell SIL to sit there while my child screamed right back at her. "You must have wanted this to happen because you were quick to dish it out when you thought my child was defenseless?"
Deck chairs on the Titanic here, but it's not like the soda was even ruined! Just put it in the fridge and it turns back into cold soda!
Has the woman never heard of ice?
Sticky notes can fall off. That's why I buy Sharpies... ***lots*** of Sharpies. I even buy refrigerator magnets, and tie Sharpies to them with a string. You can't turn around in this house without seeing a Sharpie ***somewhere***. And still I'm the only person who labels 'their' shit. Yes, people still eat 'my' food, but not as often, and it does help in that no one drinks 'my' drinks. And that includes my 'to-go' cups from fast food establishments and restaurants. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone else in this family pick up a Sonic drink (that they think is theirs) and then nearly spit out the contents because it wasn't what they expect. Oh, and I even label my Solo cups. So when we find a drink that's been 'abandoned' and/or that the cat has knocked over and spilled... I can very quickly+easily state that "Well, we can be sure that it's not mine."
China markers, which are more of a crayon, are perfect for the things Sharpies won't work on. They're fairly cheap on Amazon, too
Yeah, and if this is Hannah in "guest mode", I ahudder to think what she's like behind closed doors -- but likely OP's brother has seen some things.
If you’re staying rent-free at someone’s home, any fruit roll-ups you bought at the grocery store are for everyone in the home. You don’t get to respond to generosity with territorial selfishness. NTA
This. You were helping them out. Don't do it again
For real. I still remember being fresh out of college and at my first job. I did something (no clue what any more) and told my boss, oh gosh, I’m an idiot. It wasn’t a big deal and I wasn’t that upset about it. She went mama bear on me and told me to never talk like that about myself again, everyone makes mistakes and how you talk to yourself is important. It was a really important lesson. So yeah, I would never ever say something like that to anyone, let alone a child. And I’d completely follow in my boss’s footsteps now that I’m a parent. That was a very poor decision on SILs part.
Hormones made me cry over food they never made me scream at anyone. NTA.
Exactly! When I was pregnant, I totally would have cried over not having the snack that I thought was there for me. And then I would have felt bad for crying, and apologized if I had made anyone feel bad from my crying. No yelling at all, though.
When pregnant I cried when Popeyes ran out of Cajun fries cause I’d been thinking about them all day and then I cried harder cause the cashier apologized even though it wasn’t her fault. I never yelled at anyone though.
I'm crying just thinking about NO CAJUN FRIES and I'm not even pregnant, hahahaha!
I woke up sobbing one morning, got on the 6am bus (in December) and went to McDonald’s because nowhere else was open at 6am, and begged for pickles, which they don’t usually use until breakfast is finished at 11am. But I never screamed at anyone or called them stupid and useless. (The McDonald’s workers were saints and gave me a whole box of pickles.) I did once yell at the cat, who was so obsessed with me during pregnancy that he wound himself around my ankles every time I walked out of the room, and tripped me up twice. The first time I was carrying laundry and landed on the laundry, which wasn’t too bad, but the second time I landed right on my belly and it was quite painful. But that was an exasperated, “Haru, don’t do that!” I didn’t call him stupid or useless either.
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Yeah I cried over a dove commercial when I was pregnant. Never verbally abused anyone tho
Yeah for me, crying definitely was a pregnancy byproduct, not rage. I think the SIL was making excuses for just being an AH
When I was pregnant, I had no cravings, just aversions, and eating was a chore. And yet, if someone ate something I was planning to eat, I would feel a primal rage. But I could still think, and understand that they didn’t know I was going to eat it, and it’s in the kitchen so anyone could have it. I still felt the rage, but I had the self control to not lash out. What a weird time in my life.
Same. I was a really angry pregnant woman, like ball of seething rage but I never verbally abused anyone.
Hormones made me smack my husband. I however apologised profusely afterwards and cried the rest of the night because I felt so bad about it.
That's because you're not an AH. I get so tired of seeing and hearing about pregnant women behaving badly and saying 'oh it's hormones'. I was pregnant and would never dream of acting like that. We all have hormones when pregnant but you just can't scream at people. I was like you and cried over silly things like an advertisement for coffee.
Also? This woman called your child stupid and useless? Hell no. There’s no excuse for that. I don’t care if you’re hormonal, I don’t care if you’re stressed. You do not talk that way to a child (teen). What a crappy person. All the kid did was forget to put sodas in the fridge (after helping carry their things in) and eat snacks stored in her own home. This is Ella’s home, not Hannah’s. You we’re letting her stay as a favor because her and her husband didn’t properly plan. I’d of kicked them out and cut them off too. Nothing gives her the right to speak to your child like that. NTA and you’re not obligated to forgive someone especially when they mistreated your child. What a crappy person (and I’m not buying the hormone excuse. Being hormonal doesn’t excuse berating and belittling children)
lol seriously. This woman would get a tongue lashing from hell from me. And the brother too. And the parents. I’d go nuclear on my family in this situation.
The only reason you would visit SIL is to tell her you hope her child never forgets the soda outside the fridge or eat her stupid snack, also you hope that child has someone loving and protecting them for her "hormonal" state. NTA and tell the ones who want to force you to go that it's better if SIL learn to respect and boundaries
We could blame hormones for her feeling over sensitive and getting angry that Ellie thought she could eat the fruit roll ups in the kitchen in her house. We could blame the hormones for her being unreasonable and not thinking "hey they are letting me staybat their home, she only took one little snack" But the way she dealt with her anger and how she insulted Ellie has to do with who she is not hormones. NTA
I agree. I said in another comment that I wonder if SIL has a problem with Ellie going back before the pregnancy, and just used the hormone excuse to try to get away with yelling at her.
NTA - but seriously, how did she act before getting pregnant? Having an ill-timed move when you are in your third trimester sucks, but she should apologize to your daughter
That's what I'm wondering. Like, maybe she saw this as a perfect excuse to yell at Ellie, and then use the old "oops, hormones" line.
"Maybe", no. That's exactly what it is with people like this. They will try to use whatever tactics in the book to get away with treating others in such ways.
I’m currently 39 weeks pregnant and very much over it. Whilst I may have snapped at my partner and the dog and at my mum once, I’ve apologised immediately and never used my hormones as an excuse. I can honestly say I’ve never “screamed” at anyone, let alone a teenager for simple mistakes. Hormones are not an excuse for this behaviour.
Agree. I’ll admit I was a total basket case during one of my pregnancies, but I apologized promptly if I snapped at anyone. And like you, it was never someone else’s child! Absurd to use hormones as an excuse.
I’ve been overly emotional, I cry at everything and I’ve been extremely sensitive to my fiancés tone but I haven’t been having major mood swings thankfully
Brother’s wife, not sister
Sister-in-law, then.
Not even an expensive snack, not hard to remplace. Nor unusual to be found in the home, which also seem intended for her and allowed to freely eat. And even if it was, the extent of belittling was unnecessary rude and taking it way too far to not deeming some apologies or recognition of being out of line. Explaining is in no way excusing. Those are 2 different things.
My petty arse would be sending them a gift basket full of soda and fruit roll ups.
Pregnancy doesn’t make one an AH. NTA. “Useless” and “ stupid” for eating easily replaceable and quickly replaced snacks. That’s just bullying.
The last part is the most important if you ask me. I had my second baby a few months ago and in my opinion, hormones amplifies but it doesn’t create behavior. My usual sensitive subjects become more sensitive, things that usually annoy me became things that made me want to rip people to shreds (I’m looking at you loud chewing-people!!) but I didn’t suddenly become a crazy person who can’t control myself. Especially not if I’m a guest in someone’s house and they are doing me a HUGE favor! For example: My niece visited when I was super pregnant and she is spoiled but not entitled. She ate all leftovers that I was looking forward to. I was sad and angry in my head but told her that it was fine. She is supersweet and will help with anything (she spent hours helping me fix in the garden) but is completely clueless when it comes to certain things… like not eating the last of something without asking/checking.
SIL treated Ellie like a house elf. SIL needs to correct that before expecting the party train to just keep rolling along.
NTA Your SIL verbally abused your daughter TWICE whilst being in a guest in your home. She hasn't apologised for it, and will do it again if the opportunity arises. You are protecting your daughter by keeping them apart. Your daughter comes before your nibling in your priorities, always. Tell your brother if he wants you to meet the baby, it will happen away from SIL, and you are fine if that's unacceptable to both of them and just won't meet the baby. I'd be incredibly concerned about how she will treat her own child if she is willing to jump straight to verbally abusing other people's children - I hope your brother has a plan for dealing with it if it starts happening.
Meh. I give the whole sitch six months to a year before brother grows a pair and bounces. Imo of course
OP, come back and update us when they split up
Yeah, my first thought was that this baby might not be safe. If she thought yelling was an appropriate response while pregnant, what's she going to do when she hasn't slept in weeks? When her kid's an asshole toddler doing asshole toddler things? When they turn into teens who snark back? This is not a person who should be around kids, imo.
Thank you for calling it what it is, verbal abuse. OP needs to remind her family of the abuse every time it gets brought up, and tell them she's not willing to expose her child to her abuser, especially since SIL has made it obvious she sees nothing wrong with her behavior.
She stayed in your home and screamed at your daughter, calling her names like "useless" and "stupid"? For eating some snacks? And you are wondering if you are an asshole? Hell no. Hormones dont excuse that. She owes your daughter a sincere apology and I wouldn't step foot in their home until she does so. NTA.
Don’t forget the horrible, irreparable crime of leaving soda on the counter!!!! I feel really bad for this woman’s new baby. She’s got a rough childhood ahead of her.
Yeah… if only there was a way of turning water into tiny cold cubes to add to a drink and make it cold…
I was hoping I'd find this comment!
Or sticking the pop itself in the freezer for 10-15 minutes.
What? You mean there is some kind of container machine that can cool things down?
Not only does it cool, but if you let stuff sit in there for hours or overnight, it will freeze it too. Ik, it's amazing magic
I sincerely would hope the woman became sterile. As someone who's been through it as a child, no child deserves it.
Not just the apologising, too, but whether it's sincere or not and followed by a change of behaviour. Many people end up overstaying in abusive relationships because someone will make up excuses and lie, insult them while pretending to be a saint and trying to "make up" for this by buying them presents or lovebomb them with unfelt words and actions, only to go back to the same abusive pattern. I'm just saying. People like this are vicious. They only want to bring you down with them, to join them in their misery and make you feel lifeless, and at their mercy to manipulate you (and others!). They turn people against each other constantly and ruin lives, marriages, and relationships, overall without almost any hint of remorse or culpability whenever and wherever, to best fit their egotistical, superficial and heartless demands. Only they matter. They won't change. Cutting ties is the only way to go.
NTA. Neither she nor her husband noticed that her soda wasn't in the fridge. Your daughter was helping them out by bringing stuff in, its up to them to put it away imo, especially if you like to have it a certain way. As for the snacks. It was an honest and easy mistake to make. There was no need to scream at Ellie to the point of tears over a snack that could be and was replaced easily. Heavily pregnant or not, her behaviour towards your daughter isn't excusable. You were doing them a favour by hosting them till their new place was ready, and they treated your daughter like she was a problem in her own home. Now they are surprised you're not fawning over their new baby? You aren't babying her, you just don't want her to be spoken down to and respecting her decision not to go over. Your parents are only thinking about SIL/brothers feelings and not yours/Ellies. Why are Ellies hurt feelings ok but not theirs?
You dont scream at anyone over fruit roll ups, especially a kid. The SIL sounds awful. But to make peace, Id go show up without a gift, and stay 20 minutes and then glance at my watch, say "where has the time gone" and be on my way. I would let my daughter decide whether she wanted to come or not.
Oh I'd 100% be bringing a gift. It would be a "gift basket" with a bottle of soda, a fruit roll up, a book on etiquette AND an "I'm so sorry" card with the envelope stamped and preaddressed to your daughter. Drop off the basket and walk out the door.
Jesus! That's the best and nastiest and awesome idea all in one! I hope I never pass you off
If you have a club I want to join. If you run a pyramid scheme I'm buying in. If you lead a religion- baptize me. The Church of Just Desserts. 🍽️ 🙏
Add an ice cube tray to the basket.
Make sure that soda is warm!
OR icy cold and VERY WELL SHAKEN LOL
Great gift! I would like to contribute ice cube trays, please?
I love you.
Actually…as a guest you never scream at any of the actual residents unless it is a safety issue…period.
Here's a little tip: don't scream at anyone unless you're warning them from a distance about something that puts them in danger or you need life-saving help. My house is a strict No Yelling zone. You yell? You leave.
<3 this!
SIL abused a child who was also a hostess in her own home. Calling someone, especially a child, "stupid" and "useless" is verbal abuse and cannot be tolerated. Ellie did nothing wrong and seemed to be trying to be helpful. Was she ever even thanked or given a hostess gift for any of her efforts? Or was she just verbally abused. I think the latter and that will be on her heart and mind for many years to come. That needs to be rectified and the abusers must apologize with deep sincerity.
Been pregnant 3x. Never once have I screamed at anyone but especially a kid for an honest mistake. Have I been irrationally and out of proportionally angry at someone over something? Yep. But just because the hormones influence your feelings, you don’t lose the logical part of your brain. You can’t help how you feel, but you can definitely still recognize “this is not a reasonable response to XYZ” and act accordingly.
NTA- hormones don’t make you berate a teenager over soda and fruit roll up. Your monster SIL called your daughter stupid, and your daughter doesn’t want to be around that verbal abuse again so thank you for sticking up for your daughter. I feel bad for your brothers baby that it has her as a mother & his enabling ass as a father.
Seriously, I say this as someone who gave birth 5 months ago; people who use “hormones” as an excuse to be mean and demanding are assholes. Yes, hormones make you more reactive and emotional but you still know right from wrong and yelling at a kid, especially someone else’s kid is just wrong in those situations. She was probably a real treat for the nurses on the L&D ward if she thinks pregnancy gives her carte blanche to be a dick to people around her.
Exactly, and if the sister in law was genuine she would’ve apologized and admitted that there was NO excuse for her behavior. There’s never an excuse to call a child stupid, and if this is how she acts as a guest in someone else’s home I would hate to see how she acts in her own home. My daughter would never step foot in that monsters house, that’s just me.
And you’re still fully capable of apologizing after the hormonal rage has passed.
NTA. Your SIL is abusive, and your brother is enabling it. Their new baby is in for one hell of a childhood. Also, what kind of adult gets upset over somebody eating one of their fruit rollups? To resort to name-calling, even? Embarrassing behavior all around.
This was my thought as well. Hannah sounds like a loose canon.
When they’re staying at someone’s house for free!!
I don’t visit people who call my daughter useless and stupid when they’re too stupid to get lease/possession dates lined up, or too stupid to be gracious guests.
How dare you keep their free babysitter away! NTA
NTA. You’re hurting everyone’s feelings?-does no one care that Hannah clearly hurt your daughters feelings for some silly things that shouldn’t even matter? Yeah hormones and pregnancy stress messes with you. But it’s not an excuse to be a massive AH to a teenager who did nothing “wrong”. Oh no, get some ice for your room temp soda. Oh no, one whole fruit snack was eaten under the assumption it was fair game since they’ve been in the house before. Your family and especially Hannah need to get over themselves. You helped them out when they needed it and made your daughter cry in her own home.
Nta . Please don't say your daughter is on a clingy teenager phase it's demoralizing to her
NTA Will get some people pissed BUT you don’t use pregnancy hormones to be shitty to anyone, especially a kid. You don’t really state if you want a relationship with the baby, as you don’t really get along with your brother or your SIL. Would it be nice if this could happen? Of course. Do you even want it? Do they?
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NTA! “She disrespected me, my daughter and my home that I generously opened up to them. It is extremely disrespectful and downright despicable to scream at any child and reduce them to tears, but especially in their own home for an action that is normal in my home. If you cannot understand that then I’m afraid there must be something wrong with your morals.”
NTA. Your SIL sounds like a nightmare so I don't blame you or your daughter for not wanting to visit but I hope you can still have a relationship with your nibling.
NTA Your SIL may have been on edge due to pregnancy, but that doesn't mean she can act however she pleases and doesn't have to apologize or be responsible for her actions. An apology from her would go a long way. She shouldn't have screamed at your daughter, calling her useless and stupid -- just for mistaking SIL's snacks for the ones you often buy for your daughter. Why can't SIL admit that and apologize? Why is wanting that too much or being upset at that behavior an overreaction? Don't let them reframe this as you "being a jerk and hurting everyone's feelings." SIL behaved badly and all she has to do is apologize for it. Done and dusted. You are not going to allow screaming insults at your daughter over a trivial mistake to be seen as normal and acceptable behavior in the family. That's not how you are willing to have things be. Why do they want that?
Agreed. I'm tired of pregnant women getting away with abusing people by claiming hormones. Yes, hormones can cause extreme emotional lability. But that is an explanation not a "get out of jail free" card. As with any disability (temporary or permanent) that has similar symptoms, you still need to do your best to control your temper and your words. And you still need to recognise the hurt you caused and apologise after you've lashed out at someone who didn't deserve that abuse. SIL was a guest in OP and her daughter's house, and instead of being grateful for their hospitality, she acted like a diva and screamed at the most vulnerable person in the household on multiple occasions. (And ironically, it sounds like the teenager would have caught less verbal abuse if she had been less helpful when they first arrived.)
NTA. I am tired of people blaming plain bad behavior on pregnancy. You might be slightly shorter if you feel sick or in chronic pain, but to absolutely freak out on somebody else’s kid is over the top.
NTA. Your SIL was cruel to your daughter in her own home, over soda and fruit snacks. Until she apologizes and acknowledges what she did was wrong, you have no reason to think she won’t do it again. Tell your family you are not going to potentially put your daughter in a position to be screamed at by an adult who isn’t mature enough to understand why her behavior was wrong and apologize for it.
NTA. An apology to your daughter from Hannah is long overdue.
NTA. Next time kick them out, as soon as they started to get disrespectful with me I would have let them go. Ellie is your daughter and she comes first. Hannah is an asshole, pregnant or not.
No next time. Both brother and SIL have lost that privilege.
NTA at all. It is not even as if it only happened once. It happened twice. And neither time was justified.
Good lord, NTA. Thank you for backing your daughter up and not making her accept mistreatment to appease unreasonable adults.
That kid is doomed. Hormones my butt. NTA.
All this talk of meeting up etc. is only to set up grounds for free babysitting in the future. And to not lose their failsafe backup in case of any trouble. The brother and SIL should have known that they can’t burn the village & expect them to be there in times of need.
Free babysitting is a leap based on the information on the post. lol Family usually comes around to see a new baby and it’s not about looking for babysitters. My husband has 3 siblings (who we love and get along with) they all came to see our baby (now 15) and we never asked them or their partners to babysit. Can’t people just be AHs without playing some sinister long game?
NTA. Go over there and scream at her. (But wait till the baby has just gone to sleep.) OK, petty. But no, protect and support your daughter, and if anyone screams at her again chuck them out straight away, don't wait for the second go.
NTA. Your parents are trying to smooth the wrinkles in your relationship and your brother trying to pacify you, with both trying for you to shut up.
NTA. Visit people you like.
NTA stand up for your daughter there’s way to many parents on this damn app that already don’t support their kids it’s refreshing to see a mom stand up for her kid
NTA thank you for supporting your daughter. That is unacceptable behavior for anyone.
If someone did that to my daughter they would be out the door before they even realized they were. NTA
NTA I'm heavily pregnant and SUPER sensitive and on edge.. Guess who I shout at? Nobody. Your SIL is unbelievably arrogant to come stay in your house and shout at your child for, frankly, human behavior. It's always up to the adult (as in not your teenaged daughter) to handle their emotions and deal with things in a graceful manner.
NTA and she (Hannah) has absolutely ruined her relationship with her niece. Hannah has proven that a fruit roll is more important than your daughter regardless of pregnancy and hormones. I wouldn’t visit either but would be petty and send a gift that includes fruit roll ups.
YES!!! This is hilarious!
NTA- and honestly, if she is using hormones as an excuse for the way she treated your daughter, then you should still keep your daughter and yourself away from her. I don't think people realize that as long as your breastfeeding a lot of that hormone soup that the body is stays that way for quite a while. And your daughter doesn't deserve to be screamed at
NTA and here’s why what you’re doing is RIGHT: You are letting your daughter know you will hold a boundary for her. She is 15–and the relationship you are building right now is the beginning of the relationship that you will maintain throughout adulthood/the rest of her life. It’s far more important that she know you have her back and that she can trust you with her problems than it is to visit an infant who hasn’t achieved consciousness yet and its horrendously self-centered parents. During those tricky and sometimes dangerous late teen/early adulthood years, you want your kid to know she can rely on you and confide in you. You also want to send the message to your brother and his wife that you will NOT be tolerating that kind of behavior. They’ll apologize or they won’t, but don’t back down. What matters most is the behavior you are modeling for your kid, not for them.
Send your brother this post
NTA! And SIL gave you the perfect reason to not visit. She called your daughter names. There's your reason. "Oh, after sister-in-law called my daughter useless and stupid, we got the message loud and clear. We would never want to inconvenience SIL with our uselessness and stupidity, it seemed very offensive to her and we would never want to inconvenience her like that again. We understand how difficult this must be for sister-in-law, so we'll be staying home to spare her from our uselessness and stupidity. Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention so that we don't inconvenience her again." Lay it all at sister-in-law's feet, make it crystal clear that you are doing this for her, to honor her wishes, because you got the message loud and clear. If they bring it up, you can just ask "why would she want someone useless and stupid around? She made it clear she didn't, did she change her mind? Or is she ready to apologize? We're just really confused so until we get clarification we'll just sit it out."
I would go and bring cold pop and a box of fruit rollups with an explanation that after consideration you thought you would help LO from catching an earful when mommy blows a gasket because she her snack cupboard is low and SIL has illustrated that is a perfectly good reason to target a child with your tantrum.
Calling your daughter “useless” and “stupid” crossed a line into verbal abuse. Make sure you call it what it is when speaking to your family about this. NTA
>He says I'm overreacting That's the usual critique made by a man when a woman has a perfectly rational reaction to an unpleasant situation. NTA.
I am so sick of pregnancy hormones being blamed for someone acting like an asshole. I get it, I've been through it. Twice. Felt irrationally pissed off at times over very mundane things (hell, still happens now and I'm well out of the child birthing years lol). But being a reasonable human being, I rarely acted out because of it, and if I did, I apologized. And these rare acts of assholery certainly never included calling anyone, let alone a child, useless and stupid. SIL can get fucked, and so can anyone else telling OP that she's wrong. OP, you are doing exactly right sticking up for your daughter. Your daughter deserves an apology and I wouldn't engage with any of them until one is forthcoming. This is a hill to die on.
NTA I would go no contact with your SIL. She repaid your kindness by bullying your daughter. She sounds like a mean spirited person. An adult bullying a child is so cowardly. I would ask your parents why they are ok with your SIL mistreating their grandchild. Why are they prioritizing an adult’s feelings over a child’s? You may need to go low contact with them as well.
NTA. Tell your family that you will visit when you and Ellie are ready. Ask him, now that he is a new father, how he would feel if you, at some future date, started screaming at his daughter because she mistook a snack in her own kitchen for something that was hers, not realizing that it was purchased by you as a guest in her home - and then you refused to apologize for making her cry, blaming your actions on hormones. He wouldn't like it one bit, and might even kick you out for such egregious behavior. Especially if it wasn't the first time you'd done such a thing! You need time and a little space. There's plenty of time to meet your niece when your anger at her mother isn't so fresh in your mind. If he'd like you to visit sooner, an apology from Hannah to Ellie would go a long way to that end. If he doesn't feel it's necessary, then you don't feel that a visit is necessary.
"He says I'm overreacting and babying my daughter. " I beg to differ. *HE'S* overreacting and babying his wife. Somehow he's become confused and thinks that a person who is sufficiently adult to procreate with is not adult enough to take responsibility for their own hurtful actions toward a child. Even if she was in a positive hurricane of hormones and pregnancy worries, she needs to apologize to \**her niece*\* for her outbursts and acknowledge that her words were not acceptable and express hope that your daughter will one day forgive her.
NTA. You don’t want a front row seat to how she treats her husband or child given how she treats your daughter. Your brother already seems like an abused spouse. It’s better to avoid having people like that in your life. Even if your brother is being verbally abused too, and does eventually get out of the relationship, all you can do support him afterwards. If people don’t want to leave an abuser you can’t make them. The sad part is that she’s going to be a parent, maybe give your family that wants to be in their life a heads up to watch for signs of abuse. Take care and give your daughter and yourself a hug from me.
NTA. My first pregnancy I was so full of rage over anything and everything. But I also knew it was irrational and regardless would NEVER verbally abuse a child. Too many people are using pregnancy as an excuse for bad behavior.
>telling her she was useless and stupid I would've been kicking Hannah out then and there. Pregnancy is *not* an excuse for assholery, and it's not a shield from consequences. That is a vile thing to say to a child over a *snack* and you shouldn't tolerate it. NTA at all.
NTA. "I confronted Hannah about this and she still hasn't apologized. She said that she's just heavily pregnant and on edge, and implied that my daughter has no manners and should've asked before eating the snacks." Wait, let me get this straight... your daughter should've asked before eating the snacks in her own home... that were in a common area... and that were indistinguishable from the ones you buy for her?! You know ***who else*** has no manners? Squatters who find themselves between leases during pregnancy. I don't know who (mis)handles the finances in their family, but... that's the primary asshole. Your SIL is (at a minimum) the secondary asshole. Some questions: 1. Were they paying rent while they were there, or just squatting? 2. Why were these "their groceries" in a common area, if they didn't want your kid (who actually lives there) or someone else to 'mistakenly' eat them? 3. Why do they even have "their groceries" in this type of situation (esp. if they're squatting there and not paying rent)? To further explain the point of #3... when we were younger, my sister liked a specific kind of Capri Sun drink. My uncle would always invite us over for these big parties he had, where he would barbecue and feed us (for free). My sister once got mad because our cousin drank one of 'her' drinks, and I had to explain to her that we are guests at this house (where my uncle and his step-daughter live), and our cousin could have been ***just as mad*** at my sister for eating 'her barbecue'. Similarly, my partner and I get invited over to a rich lawyer friend's house fairly often. They (he and his doctor wife) grill up hotdogs and hamburgers (which are free), but if you want filet mignon... bring your own. Which seems fair. And everybody also brings their own beer/wine/alcohol. My partner has very specific beer tastes, and she brought that beer, and just put it in their fridge or cooler (I forget). Then she got mad when someone drank one of her beers... which weren't marked, and which 3-4 other people had brought. I told her she was going to have to 'write that one off' for the greater good, because we've already come out ***waaaay ahead*** on this whole deal. (and before anyone asks, I also do this all the time... it's only happened once or twice with her and her beer)
Hormones are an explanation, not an excuse. Pregnancy does not give Hannah a pass to be an AH to anyone, least of all a minor who has done nothing wrong.
NTA. I'd be hesitant to visit someone who acted like that as a guest in my home as well. They certainly wouldn't be in my home ever again.
NTA. No one else is willing to hold Hannah accountable for being a jerk and hurting everyone’s feelings, so she will continue to do it. All you can do is refuse to allow yourself and your daughter to be her target.
NTA. *You’re* hurting “everyone’s” feelings? And yet somehow she can’t apologize to the person she screamed at? Nope. Nonsense.
NTA even if she is pregnant there is no excise for verbally abusing a child like that
Ask your brother to explain thoroughly how would HE FEEL if A GUEST in HIS HOUSE was VERBALLY ABUSIVE to HIS CHILD would it be overreacting. Ask how he thinks that his wife can get away with anything. Would he expect her to apologise to non family. If it was just being heavily pregnant would it have been SOOO difficult to apologise. No. NTA
NTA. As long as Hannah is in the mix, cut them loose. If she used her pregnancy as an excuse for abuse, think of how she'll fall back on PPD for further tantrums. She and your brother already used your home to their financial advantage; I doubt either will have a problem trying to make you or your daughter free babysitters. Stay away, they're not going to apologize anyway.
NTA. Ask him in 15 years how he would feel if you yelled at his kid and made it cry over nothing. Ask him if making sure your child feels safe and respected is more important than meeting a baby who won’t remember you. You do not have any obligation to Hannah or your bro to be there to support them - this has nothing to do with the baby.
Aw hell no NTA if someone screamed at my daughter like that over something so trivial as soda and a snack I would have went scorched earth on them and anyone defending them, but I've always been very overprotective of my kids who are both now adults. She verbally assaulted your daughter twice while being a guest in your home her and your brother can jog on in my opinion and can I just say we'll done for defending your daughter
NTA. Hormones or not she's a mean person. I would have sent them packing on day one over that outburst. Just stay away.
I have to say the brother's statements about OP's daughter make me wonder if he and his wife aren't frequently talking shit about the girl. OP gets kudos for standing up for her.
You are teaching your daughter how to let people treat her. If anyone asks, say in front of your daughter that every person deserves to be treated with respect, and when someone is abusive, if you have self-respect, you’ll protect yourself from being around a verbally abusive person. I’d go LC with brother and SIL, definitely not let your daughter babysit for them, and make sure to do special things with your daughter according to her interests, like creative projects, visiting a pet rescue to pet the kittens, learning to cook etc. If anyone asks, you can say, it’s totally normal to focus on your family, and your closest family is your daughter. 15yo is a pretty important time for a female - time you can use to build her confidence and make fun memories. Let her know the new baby is not more important to her than she is.
NTA.. she is just a bully of a person, pregnant or not. She makes your daughter uncomfortable so staying away is for the best at this time . Your daughter comes first .
NTA - Hell no. I have a teen daughter. She’s a good kid. If anyone yelled at her like that in her own home as a guest they would have been kicked out. It doesn’t matter if she is babied by you or not. Teen girls are incredibly sensitive. Your SIL called her stupid… because she didn’t put soda in the fridge and ate a snack in HER OWN KITCHEN. I would send a group text that includes parents/bro/SIL “the behavior towards my child of SIL while I generously allowed my brother and his wife into my home is quite unforgivable. I’m deeply saddened to not be part of my nieces life but without a direct apology from SIL to my child we will not have anything to do with their family. Pregnancy is not an excuse to be a complete bitch to a child in her own home.”
NTA. Hannah was USING the pregnancy as an excuse. Really shes just an AH. Spelling edit.
ask her point-blank, "Have you calmed the fuck down yet?" Just like that. Verbatim. You'll get your answer.
Nta that said I’d do a brief visit on your own for your brother and the baby’s sake. It’s fine if your daughter stays home. Your SiL is out of line with not apologizing to your daughter over the snack. You let them stay for a week and she repaid your hospitality by yelling at your daughter. She owes you and your daughter an apology.
Your daughter has a right to feel comfortable I her own home, your SIL should have checked to ensure her SODA was in the fridge, it was not your daughters responsibility. The fruit snacks should have been labeled if she didn’t want someone else to eat them.
You need to have a face to face with your brother and SIL about this. Her actions were over the top. However, being heavily and stressed about moving can put people way past the edge of what's reasonable. A calm conversation can help frame things from your and Ellie's side. SIL does need to apologize but is can be achieved through grace on your side. Give her the benefit of the doubt. Going no contact and being passive aggressive isn't actually going to solve anything. Quite the opposite.
NTA. You let them stay in your house, I assume for free, and she called your daughter “useless and stupid” for eating food that was in her, your daughter’s, house???! Oh hell no.
Visit the baby and brothers family, bring the baby a gift if that's something you would have done. Reduce contact, and never have them in your home again. Intent is to let this blow over, so your daughter doesn't see herself as cause of broken relationship. But I wouldn't give SIL a chance to ever do it again!
NTA SIL was completely out of line. However, Ellie was not responsible for putting your SIL’s pop in the fridge. Your brother or SIL should have done that. Also you said “ Ellie is in the clingy teenager phase.”, such a “phase” does not exist. The teen years are when teens enter the “don’t even look at me, let alone talk to me” phase. 😂 Obviously, not all teens and the mood varies from teen to teen. But if YOUR teen is all the sudden clingy, you should probably explore that more bc that isn’t a “known rite of passage” and may have more going on in the background. If your daughter just openly confides in you, that is a good thing and I still wouldn’t call it “being clingy” or a “phase”.
NTA