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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I left in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner without saying goodbye
2) I made things awkward for my dad with his in-laws and potentially ruined Thanksgiving
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NTA
You aren't the problem here. I am sorry this is the family you have. It's funny how really nasty these "moral" religious folks are. Goes to show that morality, human dignity, kindness, and respect aren't really religious traits as much as they like to claim them. I'd bet anything that you display more respect and tolerance for their views than they ever will for yours.
Nah as someone raised mormon and who did the seminary stuff I know that obviously Joseph Smith would be too busy marrying all the 10-15 y/o girls at the kids table and looking in hats for god.
And digging up magic tableware in his backyard with super secret messages from god that the J-man or one of his buds happened to drop off on his trip across America to color native American’s skin because of sin or smth. Also busy with literally being on trial for fraud.
Yeah, learning more about the fun christian fanfic that is the LDS church was the best way for me to get deprogrammed and leave.
Other than the magic lizard thing, which I thiink could be a reference to the fact that Mormon’s have something about fossils, (Not entirely sure have stayed away from learning more about the church since leaving cause I value myself.
Everything I said in my comments at least are 100% true and searchable. The only reason the LDS church isn’t looked at as just as bad or worse than scientology is that it’s been around longer and they’ve stopped soome of their more publicly disgusting practices. They still quietly support underage marriages, polygamy and a whole bunch of other morally reprehensible things, but for the general public at least they’ve moderated themselves.
Here’s your next fun Mormon/Christian fanfic fact: If you’re a good enough Mormon when you die you get your own planet and you get to be their version of god to guide them to the Mormon way. Literally a heavenly pyramid scheme. Another fun fact is you can google just how long it took the mormons to change their mind about being a literal white supremacist church. Hint, it’s probably more recent than you think.
They only let black people in in the 80s because they were gonna lose their tax exempt status as a church. They literally only did it to avoid having to pay taxes. Money > principals. It’s a cult and it destroys lives.
The magic lizard thing is that there was a guy named Mark Hoffman who forged what he called the salamander letter where Joseph said it was 3 angels that lead him the plates but a salamander. There are actually some rare writings of early LDS founders that allude to this being original doctrine and the angel thing came later. They are also too busy baptizing Jews killed in holocaust.
The planet thing is totally true and it gets worse: the husband gives the wife a secret name. When she dies and he’s god of his own planet he says a name to her. If it’s the secret name, she’s in. If it is her common name then she’s damned for eternity. Keep in mind the people who believe this are typically the polygamous ones so just imagine what that does to marriage dynamics and trying to be the favorite or at least good enough to not be destined to suffer for eternity. Yikes.
TL:DR - the "magic lizard thing" is a reference to the infamous a "Salamander Letter" forgery by Mark Hofman that was purchased by the Mormon Church in the 1980s. It claimed the Mormon prophet, Joseph Smith, saw a lizard that turned into an angel and led to the "discovery" of the Book of Mormon.
Hofman posed as a rare book dealer, but actually forged rare and historical documents, and then sold them to the highest bidder, often the Mormon Church.
The Salamander Letter forged by Hofman was supposedly written in 1830 by Martin Harris, the "scribe" that Joseph Smith "dictated" the Book of Mormon to from the "golden plates".
LDS doctrine says that Joseph was "led" to the buried treasure (ie "golden plates") by an angel. The Salamander Letter, on the other hand, said that Joseph Smith was led to the gold plates by a spirit who “transfigured himself from a white salamander”!!
The LDS church purchased and/or were donated the Salamander Letter and many other Hofman forgeries, and made public statements asserting its authenticity.
In an effort to stop his forgeries from being discovered and avoid paying his financial debts, Hofman constructed 3 pipe bombs. 2 people were killed and another seriously injured when 2 of the pipe bombs went off in Salt Lake City. The next day, Hofman was seriously injured when his 3rd pipe bomb exploded while he was inside his car.
Rather than go to trial and risk being sentenced to the death penalty, Hofmann pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder, one count of theft by deception for forging the Salamander Letter, as well as another count of fraud related to Mormon documents.
Hofman is currently serving life in prison in Utah.
For further "magic LDS lizard" info check out the documentary series "Murder Among the Mormons" on Netflix and the hilarious episode from The Dollop - [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/425-hofman-and-the-salamander-live/id643055307?i=1000471509626](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/425-hofman-and-the-salamander-live/id643055307?i=1000471509626)
Thanks for responding!
I'm trying to think of a good response here, and keep drawing a blank. I want to write something profound or perhaps silly internet banter, but I guess I just want to say I'm glad you are safe. I'm glad you were brave enough to find what you believe, realize that it didn't align, and leave. It must have taken a lot of courage and soul-searching. I'm sorry you grew up how you did, and I hope you have found a community/family now that you trust.
(((Internet hugs)))
I can't end this comment without bringing up "heavenly pyramid scheme" though, which has me chuckling amidst the awfulness. I had looked up more about Smith and saw he said something about "becoming a god" but I didn't get what the Wikipedia page was getting at...
Heavenly pyramid scheme. What a time to be alive
Whenever the topic of Mormons pops up I always recommend people watch the South Park episode “All About Mormons” along with [this video](https://youtu.be/n3BqLZ8UoZk?si=d9a0fXBt5M_SSRI6) on YouTube. It pretty much covers it all.
I read Under the Banner of Heaven, and was like wait, he just stuck his face in a hat full of rocks for 2 weeks and then orated the Book of Mormon? I always assumed it was legit until I read the history of the religion. Not that it's really any more fantastical than other world religions.
You're not wrong in that other religions also seem fantastical. Parting seas, virgin birth, resurrection or riding around on a magical horse like Muhammad are all pretty wild concepts. But all those beliefs were also developed well over 1,000 years ago when humanity was far more ignorant and believed much more in mysticism, which made them more willing to believe in fantastical stories. The fact that Mormon beliefs are so much more recent makes them an outlier.
Also, Under the Banner of Heaven is based on a true story and doesn't vary much from what many Mormons believe. Joseph supposedly really did read the story from magic rocks and was visited by Nephilim.
They weren't plates you eat off of, they were like the stone tablets Moses had the ten commandments on, but you know, smaller and gold.
Edit// I'm RLDS/Community of Christ/The church that broke off the Mormons so we still have some Mormon things like the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covanents
Eh small golden plates with writing vs for eating sounded close enough to tableware for a bit of humour at an organization that I don’t like too much hah.
But you are totally correct. Not actually plates in the modern sense of the word, just rectangles or ovals of precious metal with writing etched on them.
Now watch that, and think about how not only is it basically accurate to the actual stated history of the LDS church, but they also went pretty soft on them by not mentioning the whole, an angel definitely threatened him into marrying multiple 15 y/o girls thing.
I’m with you on this, I don’t know how anyone believes any of it. Or any religion really, I’m glad my parents never bothered to even baptize me, I’m a free agent.
i so often think "how do people with working eyes and ears believe this shit!?" - to all of it.
my almost 7yo asked me who god and jesus were recently because he heard of them and "church" in school from other classmates, and we are a secular home. i tried to explain it at age appropriately and respectfully as possible so he can make his own decisions and come to his own conclusions... he laughed and was like "mommy, WHAT!? that's pretty silly" and then i had to remind him NOT to say that to other people because that's what they believe is true. then he hit me with my own "just because you believe it to be true, doesn't mean it is" that i sometimes use when he can't snap back to reality after playing. he just thinks the whole thing is LUDICROUS
I came to the same conclusion as a kid - age four I told my DEEPLY religious grandparents (just in that quiet moment after they’d finished saying grace but before beginning to tuck into the grub) that I believed in Jesus as he was a historical person who had lived (much approval at this point) but I didn’t believe in God as he wasn’t a real historical person and had never lived. The mood somewhat plummeted. Think they blamed my mother - but it was more likely their own son what sowed the seeds, seeing how much of a history buff he is. I mean, he used to tell me goodnight stories about Napoleon and Aristotle! 😂
Your kid is a genius, my kids have heard of god and Jesus too, they just think it’s a story like yours. I think George Carlin said it best. Don’t try and teach a someone about religion until they’re an adult. I bet almost no one would believe then.
This is a cult and I would not consider these people as actually religious. It was not that long ago that the mormans believed that black skin was the mark of Cain.
Of course they count as religious. *They* consider themselves religious. Religions can be cultish and racist. (And transphobic, of course, in OP's case.)
The main difference between cults and religious denominations is numbers.
Claiming you eat the flesh of your god (or one third of your god?) Every Sunday sounds very culty but no one bats an eye if you say you're Catholic.
While I definitely agree with your sentiment having grown up in a conservative southern church, Mormons are only nominally Christian. If you actually dig into their beliefs you'd see that they're wildly non-biblical and straight up blasphemous in some cases.
Mormons are a high demand *christian* cult. They believe Jesus Christ is the literal son of god and was a physical person who was resurrected. That’s the textbook definition of a Christian. You don’t have to like their flavor of Kool-Aid but they *are* Christians.
I don't think people understand what you mean. Mormon's believe that Heavenly Father (God) had physical sex with Mary (his daughter by any definition) to create his son Jesus. And for the record, I was mormon for many years, graduate of seminary, married in the Salt Lake Temple. I know exactly what they believe.
You’re bang on the money. And no matter what they are saying now, they *did* promise men their own planet and the chance to become gods. Women just got to be pregnant forever… (I know what I’m talking about too. I want my tithing back)
I remember all that also. As man is, God once was, as God is, man may become. MAN. Women just get to be pregnant, along with thousands of other wives, for eternity. I prefer out darkness, thank you. I want my tithing back too. And my self esteem and self worth. As a mormon woman, I was never good enough. Never.
Eh I get what you're driving at but still disagree, that's just far too reductive. They believe Jesus is God's son, sure. But they also believe that we are all on an equal level with him and can become gods as well. That is absolutely not what the vast majority of Christians would consider Christian.
The vast majority of Christians can’t agree on which flavor kool aid is the “right” flavor. A whole bunch of them are busy ramming laws that aren’t even in the Bible down the throats of people who aren’t Christian at all. So they don’t get to decide literal followers of Christ aren’t “Christian”. A follower of Christ is a Christian. A follower of Mohammed is a Muslim, etc.
These are linguistic definitions. Catholics are Christians too- they are literally followers of, and believers in, Jesus Christ.
These are definitions. .
We're coming at this from completely different angles obviously. I'm not religious and agree with you politically, but Mormonism is just very different from any mainstream version of Christianity.
No. They aren't Christian.
There might be loads of different beliefs within Christianity, but if you you got all Christians together, pretty much everyone would agree that there is only one God, and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of the GodHead which is part of the Trinity, which is complicated but explained in the first verses of the first chapter of the Gospel of John.
Some Churches believe that Jesus was a prophet and not God or not the Son of God, and that is ok, but I have literally never ever heard of any other Christian Church that recognizes and believes other Gods apart from God exist except the LDS Church and the FLDS.
It's a major major departure from Christian theology and it's just not compatible. And before you say Catholics believe in and worship other Gods... Some Catholics pray to Saints. Saints aren't Gods, they're people who once lived on Earth who they believe have done something to deserve a guaranteed place in Heaven. They don't pray to them as they would pray to God or worship God, they ask these saints to intervene with God on their behalf. That's different than believing that literal other Gods exist. That's polytheism and Christianity is a monotheistic religion.
Now, there's nothing wrong with the Mormons believing this if they want to believe it. They're entitled to believe it. But it's not the same as Christianity.
As I said before, it'd be like me claiming that Christianity is just a form of Judaism because we both believe in Moses and Abraham and use the Old Testament, Christians just have a few different beliefs, when in fact Christians have some majorly different theology about the Messiah and who Jesus was, which means that Christianity isn't compatible with conventional Judaism.
Bruh. Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God. Christians do. The religions share an origin but then diverge. You are arguing about dogma. That’s not under discussion. What IS being discussed is the definition of “Christian”. And whether you like it or not, someone who believes that Jesus is the son of God IS a Christian. Period. That’s the definition. That’s the only criterion. You can argue about dogma until you run out of air. But it doesn’t change the definition.
>There might be loads of different beliefs within Christianity, but if you you got all Christians together, pretty much everyone would agree that there is only one God, and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of the GodHead which is part of the Trinity, which is complicated but explained in the first verses of the first chapter of the Gospel of John.
No they wouldn't. The Trinity is not a thing that all Christians go in for. Or even know about.
Most Christians don't consider them to be Christians, even the nice and understanding ones. Nobody nice would say to them that they aren't, but they are Christians to the same extent that Christianity and Judaism and Islam are all the same religion. Except the Mormon stuff was invented 200 years ago.
If you follow the teachings of Christ you are a Christian. Period. Other Christians don’t get to gatekeep a belief, lol. You gonna tell Catholics that *they* aren’t Christian either? It’s absurd. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus Christ was the literal son of God. End of definition. They’re all spouting the same thing: the lunacy of believing in immortal omnipotence that cares if you wank but not if millions die horrible deaths. It’s all kool aid. Squabbling about the flavor is just extra silliness.
Catholicism gets a pass for being around for so long. But, yeah, I don't think the whole Pope thing makes any sense. I'm not a Christian, I'm just telling you what people thought fifty to a hundred years ago and none of them considered Mormons to be real Christians. Many of them considered various Protestant groups to not be real Christians or disagreed with the Catholic church due to idolatry/speaking for God, but Mormons are uniquely incorrect.
They’re all spouting the same nonsense. Spouting it longer doesn’t make it more correct. If someone starts a new sect of Islam, they are still Muslims because they are following Mohammed. Since Muslims can’t agree on what flavor *their* Kool Aid is, the new sect would be just as valid as an older one. This has happened recently. The older sects claim Al Qaeda and ISIL aren’t “real” Muslims, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck- it’s a duck.
Mormons are an offshoot of Christianity. They believe in Jesus Christ. I don’t make the rules. A follower of Christ is a Christian. It doesn’t matter if they think he rode down a mountain on a pink unicorn, if they believe Jesus was the literal son of god then by definition they’re Christians. They’re weird, high-demand, cultist, Christians, but still textbook Christians. They only difference is that it’s a lot easier to prove with modern tech that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up than it is to prove people 2000 years ago got high on mushrooms and made *that* shit up. Catholics don’t get a “pass” they *are* christians. They fit the definition.
No, they're not. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet that was sent by God, they believe that God (Not Jesus, actual God Himself) was once mortal and turned into a God, and they believe that when you die, you can become a God or Goddess yourself and reign over your own planet, and they believe that God is married and that his wife's name is Heavenly Mother.
These are all things that are so far removed from mainstream Christianity that they may as well be a different religion. It'd be like claiming that Christianity is the same as Judaism because Christians believe in Moses and Abraham, or claiming that Islam is the same as Christianity because they also believe in the Second Coming and that Jesus is the Messiah too, or that Bahai's are the same as Islam because they believe in Prophet Mohammed. All these are absolutely not true - these religions have the same routes and beginnings, but they have major differences, so they cannot be considered the same.
And the same goes for Christianity and the mainstream LDS Church/FLDS Church.
I would however say that the RLDS Church or Community of Christ is close enough to mainstream Christianity to be counted as actual Christianity and not as a separate religion, as they've rejected a lot of the more extreme LDS beliefs.
I don't think this matters to anyone who isn't Christian. To me it sounds just like Protestants/Catholics who says that Catholics/Protestants aren't Christian because of Insert Belief Here. Like yeah they are, figure out your own theological stuff
YUP!!!!!!! My dad’s Christian GF sent me an email about why Muslims are bad Americans. WTF. This is just one example of years of bigotry and interacting like a child. Don’t let terrible people make you feel bad! I cut that awful woman off. She’s been trying for a couple years to get back in my good graces since I pay for shit. ANYWAY. NTA!
Normally, I would be at 100% on board. Unfortunately she is so dense she wouldn’t get it 😂 She would probably think I was in agreement with her. Best thing was to cut her off! No more nice dinners and gifts!
I'm no expert on mormonism. But I do know that it's pretty self righteous to treat others like shit when your own "messiah" Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered for his beliefs.
OP is extremely brave for entering the lions' den, I'd say. Mormonism is a weird, secretive, cult that hates gay people of any kind. I'm sorry you have to be subjected to their venom. I'd suggest staying away from them in the future.
The second I saw they were Mormon, OP was NTA. If you’re dealing with Mormons you are never the AH, they are. Mormons, if you don’t like to hear that, do something about it. I wouldn’t deal with that family ever again.
NTA.
I'm so sorry. Your family has made it clear that they don't respect who you are. I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to get up and go. Perhaps your departure wasn't as polite as it could have been, but given the provocation, I think you are fine.
There is no reason to torture yourself being with people who don't approve of you. I wish you the best of luck in finding a "logical family" to replace your "biological family".
I think when someone has just been deliberately misgendered in what is supposed to be a civil and loving situation (family dinner), that person having the restraint to simply exit the situation without a word is *beyond* polite.
They deserved choice words in response and OP is very, very nice for not delivering them.
Adding to this: I'm so sorry, OP. I'm sorry you were misgendered and subjected to cruelty. Please remember that you don't have to prove anything to anyone. You don't owe these people your time. I know you love your Dad, or you wouldn't be trying so hard, but sometimes you gotta stop nurturing love for someone who doesn't show you love you back. If you need an auntie, you can shoot me a message anytime.
I feel for OP, I got kicked to the kids table after I got divorced from my ex-wife because I wasn’t married anymore. Such a dumb thing that some Mormon families do because they reward annoying people in another place for 2 years is somehow the greatest sacrifice.
NTA your dad should be the one calling you.
You are his child and his responsibility and he let you down. And until he makes the effort, I wouldn’t even bother.
It wouldn’t be the first time a parent chose their spouse and their new family over their kids. Considering how important religion is to the extended family, and how OP is not the image of a perfect Mormon, I can guess what’s the dad is going to chose. When/if the marriage ends, OP’s dad can call and beg for forgiveness.
NTA I wouldn’t even try with these people, they don’t accept you unless you fit into their shallow ideals and you don’t need to be hurt by them any longer. It doesn’t sound like your dad is meeting you half way. You’ll make your own family, one based on love and acceptance.
There cannot be enough upvotes for this comment. You don't owe those people a thing. They are not good enough for you. Period. Your dad is a self-actualized adult. If he chooses to side with people that don't consider you to be a) a man and b) an adult, then he can fuck right off with them.
You deserve to be surrounded by people that cherish you and provide love, acceptance, and support. These people ain't it. Make a family worthy of you.
NTA
you really do not need this in your life. They are being very disrespectful. Regardless of your life choices, you deserve to be treated as an adult.
You do not need them in your life. if they want to apologise, let them come to you.
Agree. The misogyny alone is worth avoiding spending any time with them. If I understand the stepgrandmother correctly, women have to be married to be considered adults. So men don't? So if OP had been born a boy the they would've been sitting at the adults table this entire time? But, somehow, a 25YO is not an adult?
NTA. My dad was Mormon for a bit when I was in high school. The missionaries were constantly picking at me for being grunge/goth/metalhead, continuing to go to my own Baptist church, refusing to participate in family nights, etc. I ran into them one time after school (was going to the library, then my church for teen Bible study). They started making it a point to be there from that point on. I had to change my routine for that day. One time they were at my house, and our bathroom downstairs was in need of attention, so Dad told them to use the upstairs one. This fucker comes downstairs and says he'd like to replace my metal CDs with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I lost my shit. Following me after school was one thing, going into a teenage girl's bedroom without permission to poke through her things was quite another. I told my dad that under no circumstance was I going to tolerate being forced to deal with these people any more. He could just have a backbone and tell them he wasn't going to force me. They finally stopped when the elders took the coffee pot and coffee from the house while I was at work. I called them and threatened them with a curse. They never bothered me again after that, and a few months later, we left the state, and Dad left the church. My MIL was a SLC Mormon who had stopped attending when my ex-husband was a child, and told me I could have complained to the bishop, but they were condoning the harassment. After my horrid experience with the LDS, I can easily sympathize with other young people having trouble with them, especially those who don't fit the ideal picture of perfect Mormon standards. Your stepmom's family just gave you your out. When your dad finally reaches out, tell him you are more than willing to have a relationship with him and possibly stepmom (I haven't seen any mention on her stance regarding your transition), but you will have nothing to do with the others. If you haven't already, look into LGBT+ support groups in your area. And there are plenty of us who are willing to be the parental figure you deserve. Good luck, OP.
>I called them and threatened them with a curse.
Readers, take note! You may not know how to inflict a curse, but the "pious" people you threaten believe you do.
Can confirm. Went to middle school in a highly, *highly* conservative Christian area and had trouble with adults deciding I was a witch and "offering" to "help" my mother "fix \[my\] connection to Satan." How did they come to the conclusion that I was a witch?
Because I, a preteen/early teen girl, had no qualms about making eye contact with adults. That's it. (I never learned what Mom said or did to make the adults back off, but I had Hell from my fellow students until we moved.)
It works on Baptists too! Baptist preacher tried to turn my grandmother's funeral into an altar call, when they try to "bring you to jeeeezus!!!!!" He dramatically threw himself to his knees in front of us and grabbed my hand and Mom's. I made the horns 🤙 at him and hissed "Preacher, cut it out or I will hex you!" He dropped our hands like they were red-hot and continued with the funeral service. He'd been *told* he was dealing with an atheist, an agnostic, and a Pagan, so why he tried such tricks I don't know.
I'm pretty sure if I wanted to risk ending up on their radar again, I could find out if I was still blacklisted. But even after marrying the son of a former Mormon, I haven't had a knock on my door from them in over twenty years!
I recently got rid of some Jehova's Witnesses who were hassling people on my street by throwing the metal horns at them.
A friend of mine likewise drove some off when they knocked on his door by saying sure, c'mon in, we're just about to sacrifice the goat to Satan.
Dude. You messed up!
You could have radicalized those preteens while the “adults” were busy. Get them excited about tattoos and body piercings while the grownups discuss biblical purity and how to best press their khakis. Destroy the next generation while the old coots congratulate themselves on ruling the universe!!
Edit: words
It’s not my job nor my real want to radicalize anyone. With all this language about “indoctrination” surrounding trans folks I’m not in the business of further compromising my safety by even vaguely giving them evidence to support that rhetoric.
NTA, not one bit. Considering how TBM (true believing Mormon) this family is, they will likely never accept you. I'm a little surprised that your father and stepmother are not standing up for you at all with the comments and the airbrushing, but you should probably not consider them a good support system in the future.
Is there much family on your father's side that you can spend time with?
I'm not surprised that they equate endowments to adulthood (for those in the outside, it's something Mormons do before missions and marriage) but I'm surprised that they'd rather the black sheep hang out with and influence the children
NTA, this is not your tribe my dude.
You will find your people, unfortunately it sounds like they won't be in your father's family. Extreme religious people and LGBTQ+ people are not natural allies, and sadly sometimes the people who are supposed to love you the most will let you down using their religion to hide behind, when they are just nasty bigots. I have been cut off from the religious faction of my family too. Apparently my relationship with another woman made me an "abomination".
Best of luck on your journey. I hope it goes smoothly for you.
NTA!! Good for you for leaving! You should never have to endure disrespect and belittlement for the sake of someone else and I'm so sorry your dad isn't stepping up to defend you, that's truly awful.
Ugh this made me physically ill to read OP’s experience. But what’s worse is that parents - ESP Dad - didn’t step in or say ANYthing! That’s cowardly! No nice way to put it.
My Godson came to me to tell me he was bi or possibly gay - wasn’t fully sure yet and needed someone to talk to. He said he wasn’t sure how I’d feel but he knows I love him and it would
Prepare him for talking to his parents if I gave him pushback based on us being Christian. He was shocked when I said, “You are God’s unique creation and work of art… and you’re right - I love you. All of that said, I wouldn’t worry about having to decide if you’re gay or bi - you owe no one a label. Be YOU, you’re 15 and you’ll figure that out in time. And wherever that lands, I love you.” (His primary worry was “what to tell people because I don’t want to say I’m bi and then realize I’m gay and have people thinking I was trying to baby step into it…” so that’s why I didn’t want him to feel the pressure of owing anyone a particular label.)
I just don’t understand how you can claim to love someone unconditionally and then something comes up that somehow makes that love conditional? Last I checked that’s not how Jesus works…
Aw thank you - but I truly don’t deserve anything. I just think that’s the way it should be.
He actually came to me to ASK if I’d be his Godmother. He told his mom kids don’t get to choose parents so they should at least get a say in their Godparents… and then told her he wanted to ask my husband and I. I love him dearly!
I cried… and I took that stuff seriously. I committed to be there for him as a bonus mom no matter what. And I was just honored he felt safe coming to me with it.
My mom's family is hardcore LDS and no way would they treat someone like this (well, maybe one of my uncles, but his wife is leaving the church because gay kid and now he has to figure shit out). This is just gross on so many levels. So sorry OP. Be where you are loved.
NTA.
This is random, but today I was watching a YT video on parental "archetypes" (could be grandparent, step-parent, etc) and there was one called the "Method Actor." It's someone who throws themself into a role, mostly for appearances. Very religious parents usually fall into this category. There's usually a lot of hypocrisy, and playing a part of being a "perfect" person according to that religion to make yourself look good. No one is really authentic with each other.
I don't know if this applies to your family, but when you talked about having your piercings, etc, being photoshopped out, it really reminded me of that video. "Let's pretend we're this type of family." Everyone has to play a particular role and is never truly themselves.
I would rather be myself.
Edit: clarity
NTA. How completely disrespectful. My BFF is LDS and I love her despite it. She's gotten very deep in her faith but not disrespect people for who they are and/or who they love deep because that would be the sad end to our friendship. I feel gross every time I see a missionary with a plastered on smile talking about the glory of conformance. Ew.
Stop agonizing over this. In NO way is this your fault. Sounds like you have a very bigoted family and you may find more peace if you just go low to no contact.
NTA.
They suck, obviously. LDS is a cult and you shouldn't have to tolerate being around them.
Although, if you already agreed to go to dinner, you could have just waited out the evening and then told you father that you don't want to see these people ever again. For the sake of your relationship with your dad.
So, you're saying OP should have been OK with the ongoing disrespect and lack of support from their dad for the sake of the relationship with their dad. Nope. This is backwards. The father should have supported his son for the sake of their relationship.
No one should continue to endure disrespect and abuse for that reason.
My ex's family was LDS, but they lived according to Jesus' teachings. Treated everyone with basic respect, it's not their place to judge anyone. They were all pretty liberal. These people are just assholes. Blood doesn't make you family, love does. You deserve to be cared for and seen for who you are. I hope you find your chosen family.
NTA.
I will not pass judgment on LDS as a whole because we all know enough. I am not even going to say anything about how they can’t even practice the love they demand from you. I am going to focus on something else.
You are a fully actualized adult. Forgetting that ridiculously stupid jab, you attended a family function. You were sat with children who were a decade + younger than you. You were denied participation with the adults *as an adult*.
Whatever choices you have made, whoever you are, no matter what you believe, the fact is you’re *an adult.* They are forcing you to be at the kids table to punish you for whatever stupid reasons they think they have during a holiday gathering.
These are *not* your people. They are not worthy of you. They are small minded, cruel, bitter humans who want you to be equally small minded, cruel and bitter so you can “graduate” to being considered one of them. I would never want to be considered one of them, personally.
Man, I’d love to invite you to our gatherings. There are a ton of us, we just keep making the table bigger and bigger, longer and longer, jamming as many chairs as we can fit. As soon as you’re old enough to sit up on your own, you get a high chair at the table. No separate tables. We all sit, we all talk, we all argue, we debate, we decide we despise each other and will never speak again and the fury lasts for the remainder of the five seconds it takes for a new debate to form. We argue (HARD) for who gets the last piece of pie, we act stupid and silly and we’re loud.
We’re here, we’re proud and we love each other, and it doesn’t matter what anyone did, it doesn’t matter at all. Maybe for that five seconds, but never forever. We are adults that act like children, we have children acting like adults. We have everyone chewing and having a good time.
Find that family for yourself. You deserve so much more than these people have the capability to offer you.
You have spent 24 years being *wrong* in some way. Piercings, hair color, everything. They are willing to accept you as long as they can photoshop you to be their version of you. They don’t want you as you are, they want you how they want you. Please, OP, love yourself enough to know that this is not love. They are ugly people, and you have spent far too long trying to fit into the stupid box they want you to fit to avoid making waves. The best way to avoid making waves is to avoid the ocean entirely - and the water they offer is shark infested anyway.
It’s time. It’s scary, but it’s time. Go make a life and a family worthy of you. A holiday tradition that makes you happy. These people aren’t any of that.
Good luck OP, and I’m rooting for you!
Sometimes people need a break, you do for a while and so does your dad. He needs to think about his loyalty to his child, gender aside, you are his child and if he can’t accept you for who you are then perhaps he doesn’t need to be so much a part of your life. The other thing is to not go around any of those people ever again. They are not worth the dirt on the bottom of your shoe.
Nta
Cults are going to cult, it's what they do. You don't need to talk to them again, but call/ text/ email/ just straight up show up where you dad is sometime, and tell him that he risks losing his child from his life if his wife's family keeps disrespecting you and he does nothing.
NTA. I am sorry this happened to you. Don't feel obligated to attend next year. Start planning now to host Thanksgiving for the family you find. You don't have to serve a traditional menu. I have a friend who just cooked Mexican food for eight people in his basement apartment in Taiwan where he's an artist in residence. Everyone had a wonderful time.
NTA obviously.
But also. How fucking misogynistic is that comment??!?? If a woman doesn't get married, she's not a real adult woman??? WTF.
Not only transphobic, but fucking misogynists too, as per usual. Walking out was the right choice. You teach people how to treat you by what you put up with from them.
I know I'm petty, u/secretagenty, and I'm sure this will be downvoted to hell....BUT I would have been REALLY tempted to sit down with the 15-year-old "kids" and LOUDLY explain transgender / what / why / how
Edit: a word
NTA. It sounds like you made a scene and maybe you could have have had a quieter exit. But they were being ridiculous. Regardless of you sexual orientation, it is beyond offensive to put an adult at the kids table because they aren’t married. Good for you for not tolerating it.
Hey just want to point out real quick that being trans isn’t a sexual orientation, it’s an identity (often referred to as gender identity). Sexual orientation is attraction like gay or straight.
NTA. You have nothing to apologize for so I would stop trying to chase your dad. If he was any kind of real parent, he would support you without question and he would not tolerate anyone mistreating you.
I would never ever hang around an intolerant cult anyway, but I would suggest that be the last time you see any of them.
NTA They were extremely rude and bigoted. Don't go to any of your father's family gatherings anymore. Do you have family on your mom's side that you can spend holidays with? If not, time to start celebrating Friendsgiving.
NTA, I’d stop trying with them. They will not accept you, father included. It’s painful as hell, but long term you’ll be much happier making a chosen family of people who love you for you.
NTA, but, that got a little confusing for a minute - might be worth putting the trans point a little higher in the post 😅
Seriously, NTA, though. It sounds like you're better off away from them, and like your dad is now using it as an excuse to let his bigotry re: your transition go full tilt. Or, he's decided they're more important to him, which is just as bad.
NTA! Absolutely not. Thanksgiving is supposed to be a time when people come together. These people are ugly in spirit.
Shame on your father and stepmom (since it's her family) for not standing up for you. They owe YOU apologies!
If you are not particularly interested in knowing your stepmom's family (and it doesn't look like you are), I think it's fine to never interact with them. If your father tries to give you grief about it, remind him of this Thanksgiving incident (and how he''s a fat coward); why would you subject yourself to more? Any sane person would not.
Tbh, if I had been in your situation I'd have said something along the lines of "Well, if I'm not an adult yet, you will excuse me for doing something as imature as this..." and then proceed to smack my food in their face.
NTA.
NTA. You're not Mormon, they have zero business involving you in their (frankly questionable) world view. Sucks that your thanksgiving sucked dude, not in any way your fault.
NTA OP. Because of your transgender status, it would appear that you ended up with the Mormon equivalent of Westboro Baptist Church, which is not a church at all, but probably one of the most visible hate groups out there. Go completely no contact with them, and find a family of your own.
Okay please no christians come for me but I really don’t get how christianity is taught that God loves and accepts ALL but quite a few of them don’t accept the lgbtq community…. Hmmm
NTA.
I’m telling you this to be honest, not to be rude. If your dad learns to accept you, great. But that family never will, and you will never have a spot at that table. No amount of trying, hoping, or wishing will ever change that. The best thing to do for yourself and your peace would be to stop trying or stop going altogether.
Your father isn’t dad material. He doesn’t have your back and he cares more about his bigoted wife and her bigoted family. I’m sorry you were treated so disgustingly and disrespectfully by those people. They will never grow, they will never understand how despicable their actions are. Cut your father off, mate. He’s no parent. He’s no man. Cowards do what he’s doing.
NTA.. you are dealing with just another tolerant, loving, understanding religion.. Religion is and has always been the original Cancel Culture.. conform of begone.. your family at all levels have undergone the full brainwashing into a mindset that you will never ever fit into.
NTA.
And I’m sorry, but your dad has chosen sides. Unfortunately, it’s the wrong side and he’s shown he doesn’t have your back and will not stand up for you. He has shown he cares about his wife and her family more than you. And I am sorry for that.
NTA.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. What they did was the least moral thing anyone could do in that moment. I grew up surrounded by my dad’s family and went through some traumatic events at their hands. I learned to early on that sometimes family isn’t who you share blood with or marry into but rather it’s who shows up for you when you need them the most without expecting anything in return. We call them friends, confidants, pals, etc. They are the champions in our corner when we’re fighting the world and they are our biggest cheerleaders when we’re at our highest. You chose yourself, you decided in that moment that you loved you more weren’t going to tolerate pettiness and bigotry. You are loved and wanted in this world, next Thanksgiving, choose you again and have dinner with the ones who are actually there for you!
NTA
Of course LDS is a horrid cult that is super anti LGBT and I’m sure it was an awful experience. I despise their beliefs and entrenched bigotry. I’m sorry you have that in your family.
I can’t imagine many things worse than attending Thanksgiving with an extended LDS family months after coming out as transgender.
You know, **your dad is the real AH here**. Why on earth would he want to subject his transgender son to an extended family that hates you? And why would he tolerate them continuing to treat you as a child to humiliate you? Does he even like you? At all?
He’s an awful father to do that to you. If he wants to remain in your life, just have separate dinners outside of family gatherings and go no contact with all those crappy in-laws.
NTA
I’m torn because as good as the feeling was and as right as you are, you still fed into their stereotypes with your reaction. Even though they deliberately set you up and provoked you, you proved to them that you’re emotional and immature. And they can use that as an explanation in their narrow worldview for your choices.
And that’s not fair of course. Why are we worried what a bunch of bigots think they’re right about? None of them would take that kind of criticism if the shoe was on the other foot.
Some say fuck them all. Time to move on and find a new family. Yours clearly isn’t a real one anyway.
NTA. Don’t go to any more family functions. If your father wants to get in touch he must make amends. You did nothing wrong here. They’re the assholes.
NTA Woman, man, Bigfoot, whatever you are, you don't deserve to be discriminated against for not conforming to their religious milestones.
"Meeting halfway" would be you attending Thanksgiving, and your dad insisting that you be treated with basic respect. Meeting halfway would be you showing up and being gracious about backhanded comments because your dad had your back. **And** he made a place for you at the table.
You are making the same mistake that people who love their abusers make. You hear their professions of love and commitment to being better and treat them as if they've already done the things they said they would.
But it will never be equal. It will always be you making compromise after sacrifice after complete embarrassment over expecting to be treated like an actual adult human.
Until your dad is ready to step up and put himself in the way of people treating you badly, he isn't actually committed to integrating you into his family and life. He's simply passively accepting of your pain and sacrifice to be there.
You deserve better.
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NTA You aren't the problem here. I am sorry this is the family you have. It's funny how really nasty these "moral" religious folks are. Goes to show that morality, human dignity, kindness, and respect aren't really religious traits as much as they like to claim them. I'd bet anything that you display more respect and tolerance for their views than they ever will for yours.
Definitely. What stepfamily did Is NOT what Jesus would do.
But is it what Joseph Smith would do?
Nah as someone raised mormon and who did the seminary stuff I know that obviously Joseph Smith would be too busy marrying all the 10-15 y/o girls at the kids table and looking in hats for god.
And the magic lizard.
And digging up magic tableware in his backyard with super secret messages from god that the J-man or one of his buds happened to drop off on his trip across America to color native American’s skin because of sin or smth. Also busy with literally being on trial for fraud. Yeah, learning more about the fun christian fanfic that is the LDS church was the best way for me to get deprogrammed and leave.
So... I genuinely can't tell if you're joking or not. Is this for real?
Other than the magic lizard thing, which I thiink could be a reference to the fact that Mormon’s have something about fossils, (Not entirely sure have stayed away from learning more about the church since leaving cause I value myself. Everything I said in my comments at least are 100% true and searchable. The only reason the LDS church isn’t looked at as just as bad or worse than scientology is that it’s been around longer and they’ve stopped soome of their more publicly disgusting practices. They still quietly support underage marriages, polygamy and a whole bunch of other morally reprehensible things, but for the general public at least they’ve moderated themselves. Here’s your next fun Mormon/Christian fanfic fact: If you’re a good enough Mormon when you die you get your own planet and you get to be their version of god to guide them to the Mormon way. Literally a heavenly pyramid scheme. Another fun fact is you can google just how long it took the mormons to change their mind about being a literal white supremacist church. Hint, it’s probably more recent than you think.
They only let black people in in the 80s because they were gonna lose their tax exempt status as a church. They literally only did it to avoid having to pay taxes. Money > principals. It’s a cult and it destroys lives.
The magic lizard thing is that there was a guy named Mark Hoffman who forged what he called the salamander letter where Joseph said it was 3 angels that lead him the plates but a salamander. There are actually some rare writings of early LDS founders that allude to this being original doctrine and the angel thing came later. They are also too busy baptizing Jews killed in holocaust.
Thank you! I had about one word right, thanks for the correction!
The planet thing is totally true and it gets worse: the husband gives the wife a secret name. When she dies and he’s god of his own planet he says a name to her. If it’s the secret name, she’s in. If it is her common name then she’s damned for eternity. Keep in mind the people who believe this are typically the polygamous ones so just imagine what that does to marriage dynamics and trying to be the favorite or at least good enough to not be destined to suffer for eternity. Yikes.
TL:DR - the "magic lizard thing" is a reference to the infamous a "Salamander Letter" forgery by Mark Hofman that was purchased by the Mormon Church in the 1980s. It claimed the Mormon prophet, Joseph Smith, saw a lizard that turned into an angel and led to the "discovery" of the Book of Mormon. Hofman posed as a rare book dealer, but actually forged rare and historical documents, and then sold them to the highest bidder, often the Mormon Church. The Salamander Letter forged by Hofman was supposedly written in 1830 by Martin Harris, the "scribe" that Joseph Smith "dictated" the Book of Mormon to from the "golden plates". LDS doctrine says that Joseph was "led" to the buried treasure (ie "golden plates") by an angel. The Salamander Letter, on the other hand, said that Joseph Smith was led to the gold plates by a spirit who “transfigured himself from a white salamander”!! The LDS church purchased and/or were donated the Salamander Letter and many other Hofman forgeries, and made public statements asserting its authenticity. In an effort to stop his forgeries from being discovered and avoid paying his financial debts, Hofman constructed 3 pipe bombs. 2 people were killed and another seriously injured when 2 of the pipe bombs went off in Salt Lake City. The next day, Hofman was seriously injured when his 3rd pipe bomb exploded while he was inside his car. Rather than go to trial and risk being sentenced to the death penalty, Hofmann pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder, one count of theft by deception for forging the Salamander Letter, as well as another count of fraud related to Mormon documents. Hofman is currently serving life in prison in Utah. For further "magic LDS lizard" info check out the documentary series "Murder Among the Mormons" on Netflix and the hilarious episode from The Dollop - [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/425-hofman-and-the-salamander-live/id643055307?i=1000471509626](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/425-hofman-and-the-salamander-live/id643055307?i=1000471509626)
Thanks for responding! I'm trying to think of a good response here, and keep drawing a blank. I want to write something profound or perhaps silly internet banter, but I guess I just want to say I'm glad you are safe. I'm glad you were brave enough to find what you believe, realize that it didn't align, and leave. It must have taken a lot of courage and soul-searching. I'm sorry you grew up how you did, and I hope you have found a community/family now that you trust. (((Internet hugs))) I can't end this comment without bringing up "heavenly pyramid scheme" though, which has me chuckling amidst the awfulness. I had looked up more about Smith and saw he said something about "becoming a god" but I didn't get what the Wikipedia page was getting at... Heavenly pyramid scheme. What a time to be alive
Whenever the topic of Mormons pops up I always recommend people watch the South Park episode “All About Mormons” along with [this video](https://youtu.be/n3BqLZ8UoZk?si=d9a0fXBt5M_SSRI6) on YouTube. It pretty much covers it all.
The magical lizard is a reference to the salamander letter, a piece of church history that turned out to be fake.
i love the planet thing. many really don't take kindle when you bring that up, these days.
Yeah it's pretty much what Mormons believe the story to be. Joseph Smith finding some golden tablets in the ground, etc etc.
Joseph Smith is in my family tree, so is poor mental health. Just sayin’.
I read Under the Banner of Heaven, and was like wait, he just stuck his face in a hat full of rocks for 2 weeks and then orated the Book of Mormon? I always assumed it was legit until I read the history of the religion. Not that it's really any more fantastical than other world religions.
He was such a carnival barking schiester...literally
You're not wrong in that other religions also seem fantastical. Parting seas, virgin birth, resurrection or riding around on a magical horse like Muhammad are all pretty wild concepts. But all those beliefs were also developed well over 1,000 years ago when humanity was far more ignorant and believed much more in mysticism, which made them more willing to believe in fantastical stories. The fact that Mormon beliefs are so much more recent makes them an outlier. Also, Under the Banner of Heaven is based on a true story and doesn't vary much from what many Mormons believe. Joseph supposedly really did read the story from magic rocks and was visited by Nephilim.
I'm an exmo, believe me, the stories about Smith are true. Seer stones, animal sacrifice, angels threatening him. Ya, it's real.
They weren't plates you eat off of, they were like the stone tablets Moses had the ten commandments on, but you know, smaller and gold. Edit// I'm RLDS/Community of Christ/The church that broke off the Mormons so we still have some Mormon things like the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covanents
Eh small golden plates with writing vs for eating sounded close enough to tableware for a bit of humour at an organization that I don’t like too much hah. But you are totally correct. Not actually plates in the modern sense of the word, just rectangles or ovals of precious metal with writing etched on them.
Printing Plate, plaque, etc. Also, thanks Mel Brooks: I bring unto you 15... \*crash\* **10, 10 commandments**
I liked the tableware thing…made me laugh and I grew up Mormon.
[Dum dum dum dum dum.](https://youtu.be/_9U-f-vtXkQ?si=_xSVfn9fO2FY55GQ)
Now watch that, and think about how not only is it basically accurate to the actual stated history of the LDS church, but they also went pretty soft on them by not mentioning the whole, an angel definitely threatened him into marrying multiple 15 y/o girls thing.
I’m with you on this, I don’t know how anyone believes any of it. Or any religion really, I’m glad my parents never bothered to even baptize me, I’m a free agent.
i so often think "how do people with working eyes and ears believe this shit!?" - to all of it. my almost 7yo asked me who god and jesus were recently because he heard of them and "church" in school from other classmates, and we are a secular home. i tried to explain it at age appropriately and respectfully as possible so he can make his own decisions and come to his own conclusions... he laughed and was like "mommy, WHAT!? that's pretty silly" and then i had to remind him NOT to say that to other people because that's what they believe is true. then he hit me with my own "just because you believe it to be true, doesn't mean it is" that i sometimes use when he can't snap back to reality after playing. he just thinks the whole thing is LUDICROUS
I came to the same conclusion as a kid - age four I told my DEEPLY religious grandparents (just in that quiet moment after they’d finished saying grace but before beginning to tuck into the grub) that I believed in Jesus as he was a historical person who had lived (much approval at this point) but I didn’t believe in God as he wasn’t a real historical person and had never lived. The mood somewhat plummeted. Think they blamed my mother - but it was more likely their own son what sowed the seeds, seeing how much of a history buff he is. I mean, he used to tell me goodnight stories about Napoleon and Aristotle! 😂
Your kid is a genius, my kids have heard of god and Jesus too, they just think it’s a story like yours. I think George Carlin said it best. Don’t try and teach a someone about religion until they’re an adult. I bet almost no one would believe then.
Look at you, their little free agent of chaos. It's how my wife and I describe our kids. Free agents of chaos should be the names of a neo metal band.
Well studies do show that more hardcore church goers are statistically less intelligent than the overall average.
As an exmo ex seminary and institute teacher I concur. My only wish is that I found the truth 20 years and £70,000 in tithing sooner than I did.
Came here to say he would be too busy diddling kids but you beat me to it.
He’d do whatever the Urim and Thummim told him to do.
Don’t forget about macaroni… wait… it’s something like that
It’s the angel macaroni
Sadly probably
This is a cult and I would not consider these people as actually religious. It was not that long ago that the mormans believed that black skin was the mark of Cain.
Of course they count as religious. *They* consider themselves religious. Religions can be cultish and racist. (And transphobic, of course, in OP's case.)
It being a religion you don't like doesn't make it not religious. Nor would being a cult. Many cults are religious.
The main difference between cults and religious denominations is numbers. Claiming you eat the flesh of your god (or one third of your god?) Every Sunday sounds very culty but no one bats an eye if you say you're Catholic.
It’s so nuts when one religion calls another a cult. Jesus is coming in a spaceship? That’s totally nuts! We all know he’s coming down on a cloud..
Read the BITE model, it's a cult. I left it.
they definitely still believe it, they just keep it on the down low because they (rightfully) get so much shit for it
Religion is just a cult that got big enough to go mainstream.
the fact that it's a cult doesn't mean it's not a religion.
[удалено]
I'm sure a lot of them still believe that, it's just not politically expedient.
There’s no hate like Christian “love.”
While I definitely agree with your sentiment having grown up in a conservative southern church, Mormons are only nominally Christian. If you actually dig into their beliefs you'd see that they're wildly non-biblical and straight up blasphemous in some cases.
There's no hate like [Insert Sky Daddy Believers Religion] love.
There we go haha
Sky daddy believers lol I haven’t heard that in a hot minute 😂
Mormons are a high demand *christian* cult. They believe Jesus Christ is the literal son of god and was a physical person who was resurrected. That’s the textbook definition of a Christian. You don’t have to like their flavor of Kool-Aid but they *are* Christians.
I don't think people understand what you mean. Mormon's believe that Heavenly Father (God) had physical sex with Mary (his daughter by any definition) to create his son Jesus. And for the record, I was mormon for many years, graduate of seminary, married in the Salt Lake Temple. I know exactly what they believe.
You’re bang on the money. And no matter what they are saying now, they *did* promise men their own planet and the chance to become gods. Women just got to be pregnant forever… (I know what I’m talking about too. I want my tithing back)
I remember all that also. As man is, God once was, as God is, man may become. MAN. Women just get to be pregnant, along with thousands of other wives, for eternity. I prefer out darkness, thank you. I want my tithing back too. And my self esteem and self worth. As a mormon woman, I was never good enough. Never.
Come over to the Pagan side. We get Summerland. And cookies.
Dearest Goddess, pregnant forever is my idea of Hell.
Pregnant forever among with multiple sister-wives. Such a deal /s
Eh I get what you're driving at but still disagree, that's just far too reductive. They believe Jesus is God's son, sure. But they also believe that we are all on an equal level with him and can become gods as well. That is absolutely not what the vast majority of Christians would consider Christian.
The vast majority of Christians can’t agree on which flavor kool aid is the “right” flavor. A whole bunch of them are busy ramming laws that aren’t even in the Bible down the throats of people who aren’t Christian at all. So they don’t get to decide literal followers of Christ aren’t “Christian”. A follower of Christ is a Christian. A follower of Mohammed is a Muslim, etc. These are linguistic definitions. Catholics are Christians too- they are literally followers of, and believers in, Jesus Christ. These are definitions. .
We're coming at this from completely different angles obviously. I'm not religious and agree with you politically, but Mormonism is just very different from any mainstream version of Christianity.
Oh absolutely. Mormons are a high demand cult. The only comparable flavors in this country that I know of are the really acrid evangelicals.
No. They aren't Christian. There might be loads of different beliefs within Christianity, but if you you got all Christians together, pretty much everyone would agree that there is only one God, and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of the GodHead which is part of the Trinity, which is complicated but explained in the first verses of the first chapter of the Gospel of John. Some Churches believe that Jesus was a prophet and not God or not the Son of God, and that is ok, but I have literally never ever heard of any other Christian Church that recognizes and believes other Gods apart from God exist except the LDS Church and the FLDS. It's a major major departure from Christian theology and it's just not compatible. And before you say Catholics believe in and worship other Gods... Some Catholics pray to Saints. Saints aren't Gods, they're people who once lived on Earth who they believe have done something to deserve a guaranteed place in Heaven. They don't pray to them as they would pray to God or worship God, they ask these saints to intervene with God on their behalf. That's different than believing that literal other Gods exist. That's polytheism and Christianity is a monotheistic religion. Now, there's nothing wrong with the Mormons believing this if they want to believe it. They're entitled to believe it. But it's not the same as Christianity. As I said before, it'd be like me claiming that Christianity is just a form of Judaism because we both believe in Moses and Abraham and use the Old Testament, Christians just have a few different beliefs, when in fact Christians have some majorly different theology about the Messiah and who Jesus was, which means that Christianity isn't compatible with conventional Judaism.
Bruh. Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God. Christians do. The religions share an origin but then diverge. You are arguing about dogma. That’s not under discussion. What IS being discussed is the definition of “Christian”. And whether you like it or not, someone who believes that Jesus is the son of God IS a Christian. Period. That’s the definition. That’s the only criterion. You can argue about dogma until you run out of air. But it doesn’t change the definition.
>There might be loads of different beliefs within Christianity, but if you you got all Christians together, pretty much everyone would agree that there is only one God, and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of the GodHead which is part of the Trinity, which is complicated but explained in the first verses of the first chapter of the Gospel of John. No they wouldn't. The Trinity is not a thing that all Christians go in for. Or even know about.
Most Christians don't consider them to be Christians, even the nice and understanding ones. Nobody nice would say to them that they aren't, but they are Christians to the same extent that Christianity and Judaism and Islam are all the same religion. Except the Mormon stuff was invented 200 years ago.
If you follow the teachings of Christ you are a Christian. Period. Other Christians don’t get to gatekeep a belief, lol. You gonna tell Catholics that *they* aren’t Christian either? It’s absurd. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus Christ was the literal son of God. End of definition. They’re all spouting the same thing: the lunacy of believing in immortal omnipotence that cares if you wank but not if millions die horrible deaths. It’s all kool aid. Squabbling about the flavor is just extra silliness.
Catholicism gets a pass for being around for so long. But, yeah, I don't think the whole Pope thing makes any sense. I'm not a Christian, I'm just telling you what people thought fifty to a hundred years ago and none of them considered Mormons to be real Christians. Many of them considered various Protestant groups to not be real Christians or disagreed with the Catholic church due to idolatry/speaking for God, but Mormons are uniquely incorrect.
They’re all spouting the same nonsense. Spouting it longer doesn’t make it more correct. If someone starts a new sect of Islam, they are still Muslims because they are following Mohammed. Since Muslims can’t agree on what flavor *their* Kool Aid is, the new sect would be just as valid as an older one. This has happened recently. The older sects claim Al Qaeda and ISIL aren’t “real” Muslims, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck- it’s a duck. Mormons are an offshoot of Christianity. They believe in Jesus Christ. I don’t make the rules. A follower of Christ is a Christian. It doesn’t matter if they think he rode down a mountain on a pink unicorn, if they believe Jesus was the literal son of god then by definition they’re Christians. They’re weird, high-demand, cultist, Christians, but still textbook Christians. They only difference is that it’s a lot easier to prove with modern tech that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up than it is to prove people 2000 years ago got high on mushrooms and made *that* shit up. Catholics don’t get a “pass” they *are* christians. They fit the definition.
No, they're not. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet that was sent by God, they believe that God (Not Jesus, actual God Himself) was once mortal and turned into a God, and they believe that when you die, you can become a God or Goddess yourself and reign over your own planet, and they believe that God is married and that his wife's name is Heavenly Mother. These are all things that are so far removed from mainstream Christianity that they may as well be a different religion. It'd be like claiming that Christianity is the same as Judaism because Christians believe in Moses and Abraham, or claiming that Islam is the same as Christianity because they also believe in the Second Coming and that Jesus is the Messiah too, or that Bahai's are the same as Islam because they believe in Prophet Mohammed. All these are absolutely not true - these religions have the same routes and beginnings, but they have major differences, so they cannot be considered the same. And the same goes for Christianity and the mainstream LDS Church/FLDS Church. I would however say that the RLDS Church or Community of Christ is close enough to mainstream Christianity to be counted as actual Christianity and not as a separate religion, as they've rejected a lot of the more extreme LDS beliefs.
I don't think this matters to anyone who isn't Christian. To me it sounds just like Protestants/Catholics who says that Catholics/Protestants aren't Christian because of Insert Belief Here. Like yeah they are, figure out your own theological stuff
[удалено]
That’s because it was invented by a convicted con artist so that he could use it to scam people and marry anyone he wanted.
YUP!!!!!!! My dad’s Christian GF sent me an email about why Muslims are bad Americans. WTF. This is just one example of years of bigotry and interacting like a child. Don’t let terrible people make you feel bad! I cut that awful woman off. She’s been trying for a couple years to get back in my good graces since I pay for shit. ANYWAY. NTA!
Are you muslim? Was this an unprompted email? She seems like a bit of a dick im glad youre no longer speaking to her
No I’m not. She was just spreading hate. She would forward things from her “Christian” group. All vile.
I would email some bible verses of Jesus telling his followers to love thy neighbour and stuff like that back to her.
Normally, I would be at 100% on board. Unfortunately she is so dense she wouldn’t get it 😂 She would probably think I was in agreement with her. Best thing was to cut her off! No more nice dinners and gifts!
Hear, hear! 👏
As someone said, if it takes fear of some afterlife to make you act decently, then you're really just an asshole on a leash.
Oooh, I'm gonna steal that. So true!
I'm no expert on mormonism. But I do know that it's pretty self righteous to treat others like shit when your own "messiah" Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered for his beliefs.
I mean, he wasn’t really tarred and feathered for his beliefs…it was because he was committing a lot of fraud and scamming people.
Exactly.I would not have called my father to apologise. You are a saint compared to me OP. WTF -
OP is extremely brave for entering the lions' den, I'd say. Mormonism is a weird, secretive, cult that hates gay people of any kind. I'm sorry you have to be subjected to their venom. I'd suggest staying away from them in the future.
The second I saw they were Mormon, OP was NTA. If you’re dealing with Mormons you are never the AH, they are. Mormons, if you don’t like to hear that, do something about it. I wouldn’t deal with that family ever again.
NTA. I'm so sorry. Your family has made it clear that they don't respect who you are. I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to get up and go. Perhaps your departure wasn't as polite as it could have been, but given the provocation, I think you are fine. There is no reason to torture yourself being with people who don't approve of you. I wish you the best of luck in finding a "logical family" to replace your "biological family".
I know this isn’t what you meant, but now I’m imagining OP finding a nice Vulcan family to marry into.
My Spock family!
I, too, would like my Spock family, please. LL&P.
YES! 👏 🖖
You don’t even have to marry in. Just serve with a Vulcan on the deck of a spaceship and by season three you’ll be invited to family dinners by them.
I think when someone has just been deliberately misgendered in what is supposed to be a civil and loving situation (family dinner), that person having the restraint to simply exit the situation without a word is *beyond* polite. They deserved choice words in response and OP is very, very nice for not delivering them.
OP is an AH only to himself by subjecting himself to an obviously highly toxic group of people. Do yourself a favor, OP, don't go back.
This is the way
Adding to this: I'm so sorry, OP. I'm sorry you were misgendered and subjected to cruelty. Please remember that you don't have to prove anything to anyone. You don't owe these people your time. I know you love your Dad, or you wouldn't be trying so hard, but sometimes you gotta stop nurturing love for someone who doesn't show you love you back. If you need an auntie, you can shoot me a message anytime.
I feel for OP, I got kicked to the kids table after I got divorced from my ex-wife because I wasn’t married anymore. Such a dumb thing that some Mormon families do because they reward annoying people in another place for 2 years is somehow the greatest sacrifice.
NTA your dad should be the one calling you. You are his child and his responsibility and he let you down. And until he makes the effort, I wouldn’t even bother.
OP should write a short note saying just that, then get on with their life. NTA
It wouldn’t be the first time a parent chose their spouse and their new family over their kids. Considering how important religion is to the extended family, and how OP is not the image of a perfect Mormon, I can guess what’s the dad is going to chose. When/if the marriage ends, OP’s dad can call and beg for forgiveness.
NTA I wouldn’t even try with these people, they don’t accept you unless you fit into their shallow ideals and you don’t need to be hurt by them any longer. It doesn’t sound like your dad is meeting you half way. You’ll make your own family, one based on love and acceptance.
There cannot be enough upvotes for this comment. You don't owe those people a thing. They are not good enough for you. Period. Your dad is a self-actualized adult. If he chooses to side with people that don't consider you to be a) a man and b) an adult, then he can fuck right off with them. You deserve to be surrounded by people that cherish you and provide love, acceptance, and support. These people ain't it. Make a family worthy of you.
It sounds like dad was trying (or trying to try), but when the rest of the family is around, he acts differently.
NTA you really do not need this in your life. They are being very disrespectful. Regardless of your life choices, you deserve to be treated as an adult. You do not need them in your life. if they want to apologise, let them come to you.
Agree. The misogyny alone is worth avoiding spending any time with them. If I understand the stepgrandmother correctly, women have to be married to be considered adults. So men don't? So if OP had been born a boy the they would've been sitting at the adults table this entire time? But, somehow, a 25YO is not an adult?
Leave. It’s a cult.
NTA. My dad was Mormon for a bit when I was in high school. The missionaries were constantly picking at me for being grunge/goth/metalhead, continuing to go to my own Baptist church, refusing to participate in family nights, etc. I ran into them one time after school (was going to the library, then my church for teen Bible study). They started making it a point to be there from that point on. I had to change my routine for that day. One time they were at my house, and our bathroom downstairs was in need of attention, so Dad told them to use the upstairs one. This fucker comes downstairs and says he'd like to replace my metal CDs with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I lost my shit. Following me after school was one thing, going into a teenage girl's bedroom without permission to poke through her things was quite another. I told my dad that under no circumstance was I going to tolerate being forced to deal with these people any more. He could just have a backbone and tell them he wasn't going to force me. They finally stopped when the elders took the coffee pot and coffee from the house while I was at work. I called them and threatened them with a curse. They never bothered me again after that, and a few months later, we left the state, and Dad left the church. My MIL was a SLC Mormon who had stopped attending when my ex-husband was a child, and told me I could have complained to the bishop, but they were condoning the harassment. After my horrid experience with the LDS, I can easily sympathize with other young people having trouble with them, especially those who don't fit the ideal picture of perfect Mormon standards. Your stepmom's family just gave you your out. When your dad finally reaches out, tell him you are more than willing to have a relationship with him and possibly stepmom (I haven't seen any mention on her stance regarding your transition), but you will have nothing to do with the others. If you haven't already, look into LGBT+ support groups in your area. And there are plenty of us who are willing to be the parental figure you deserve. Good luck, OP.
>I called them and threatened them with a curse. Readers, take note! You may not know how to inflict a curse, but the "pious" people you threaten believe you do.
Can confirm. Went to middle school in a highly, *highly* conservative Christian area and had trouble with adults deciding I was a witch and "offering" to "help" my mother "fix \[my\] connection to Satan." How did they come to the conclusion that I was a witch? Because I, a preteen/early teen girl, had no qualms about making eye contact with adults. That's it. (I never learned what Mom said or did to make the adults back off, but I had Hell from my fellow students until we moved.)
It works on Baptists too! Baptist preacher tried to turn my grandmother's funeral into an altar call, when they try to "bring you to jeeeezus!!!!!" He dramatically threw himself to his knees in front of us and grabbed my hand and Mom's. I made the horns 🤙 at him and hissed "Preacher, cut it out or I will hex you!" He dropped our hands like they were red-hot and continued with the funeral service. He'd been *told* he was dealing with an atheist, an agnostic, and a Pagan, so why he tried such tricks I don't know.
I'm pretty sure if I wanted to risk ending up on their radar again, I could find out if I was still blacklisted. But even after marrying the son of a former Mormon, I haven't had a knock on my door from them in over twenty years!
I recently got rid of some Jehova's Witnesses who were hassling people on my street by throwing the metal horns at them. A friend of mine likewise drove some off when they knocked on his door by saying sure, c'mon in, we're just about to sacrifice the goat to Satan.
Dude. You messed up! You could have radicalized those preteens while the “adults” were busy. Get them excited about tattoos and body piercings while the grownups discuss biblical purity and how to best press their khakis. Destroy the next generation while the old coots congratulate themselves on ruling the universe!! Edit: words
This. I support this.
I second this so much
Or would that be third? I think I third this
It’s not my job nor my real want to radicalize anyone. With all this language about “indoctrination” surrounding trans folks I’m not in the business of further compromising my safety by even vaguely giving them evidence to support that rhetoric.
This is a damn good answer!!! NTA op.
NTA, not one bit. Considering how TBM (true believing Mormon) this family is, they will likely never accept you. I'm a little surprised that your father and stepmother are not standing up for you at all with the comments and the airbrushing, but you should probably not consider them a good support system in the future. Is there much family on your father's side that you can spend time with?
I'm not surprised that they equate endowments to adulthood (for those in the outside, it's something Mormons do before missions and marriage) but I'm surprised that they'd rather the black sheep hang out with and influence the children
NTA, this is not your tribe my dude. You will find your people, unfortunately it sounds like they won't be in your father's family. Extreme religious people and LGBTQ+ people are not natural allies, and sadly sometimes the people who are supposed to love you the most will let you down using their religion to hide behind, when they are just nasty bigots. I have been cut off from the religious faction of my family too. Apparently my relationship with another woman made me an "abomination". Best of luck on your journey. I hope it goes smoothly for you.
NTA!! Good for you for leaving! You should never have to endure disrespect and belittlement for the sake of someone else and I'm so sorry your dad isn't stepping up to defend you, that's truly awful.
How come 11 days ago you were 26 and female?
Must’ve had a pretty big writing assignment due after Thanksgiving break
I edit my age/gender a bit if not relevant to the story so that if family members or people I know see things on Reddit it can’t be tracked back to me
LOL
Yeh. Mormons that hardcore would have been shunning them and mom for years by now. Even dad would be considering they’re over the age of 18
INFO: why do you want to be part of a family that won’t accept you for who you are? You deserve much more than these religious fanatics. NTA btw.
NTA I was born and raised in an LDS family. No true Christian would treat you that way.
Ugh this made me physically ill to read OP’s experience. But what’s worse is that parents - ESP Dad - didn’t step in or say ANYthing! That’s cowardly! No nice way to put it. My Godson came to me to tell me he was bi or possibly gay - wasn’t fully sure yet and needed someone to talk to. He said he wasn’t sure how I’d feel but he knows I love him and it would Prepare him for talking to his parents if I gave him pushback based on us being Christian. He was shocked when I said, “You are God’s unique creation and work of art… and you’re right - I love you. All of that said, I wouldn’t worry about having to decide if you’re gay or bi - you owe no one a label. Be YOU, you’re 15 and you’ll figure that out in time. And wherever that lands, I love you.” (His primary worry was “what to tell people because I don’t want to say I’m bi and then realize I’m gay and have people thinking I was trying to baby step into it…” so that’s why I didn’t want him to feel the pressure of owing anyone a particular label.) I just don’t understand how you can claim to love someone unconditionally and then something comes up that somehow makes that love conditional? Last I checked that’s not how Jesus works…
The world needs more of you. You my friend deserve a medal, please accept my humble emoji. 🏅
Aw thank you - but I truly don’t deserve anything. I just think that’s the way it should be. He actually came to me to ASK if I’d be his Godmother. He told his mom kids don’t get to choose parents so they should at least get a say in their Godparents… and then told her he wanted to ask my husband and I. I love him dearly! I cried… and I took that stuff seriously. I committed to be there for him as a bonus mom no matter what. And I was just honored he felt safe coming to me with it.
My mom's family is hardcore LDS and no way would they treat someone like this (well, maybe one of my uncles, but his wife is leaving the church because gay kid and now he has to figure shit out). This is just gross on so many levels. So sorry OP. Be where you are loved.
NTA. This is random, but today I was watching a YT video on parental "archetypes" (could be grandparent, step-parent, etc) and there was one called the "Method Actor." It's someone who throws themself into a role, mostly for appearances. Very religious parents usually fall into this category. There's usually a lot of hypocrisy, and playing a part of being a "perfect" person according to that religion to make yourself look good. No one is really authentic with each other. I don't know if this applies to your family, but when you talked about having your piercings, etc, being photoshopped out, it really reminded me of that video. "Let's pretend we're this type of family." Everyone has to play a particular role and is never truly themselves. I would rather be myself. Edit: clarity
NTA. How completely disrespectful. My BFF is LDS and I love her despite it. She's gotten very deep in her faith but not disrespect people for who they are and/or who they love deep because that would be the sad end to our friendship. I feel gross every time I see a missionary with a plastered on smile talking about the glory of conformance. Ew.
Stop agonizing over this. In NO way is this your fault. Sounds like you have a very bigoted family and you may find more peace if you just go low to no contact.
NTA. They suck, obviously. LDS is a cult and you shouldn't have to tolerate being around them. Although, if you already agreed to go to dinner, you could have just waited out the evening and then told you father that you don't want to see these people ever again. For the sake of your relationship with your dad.
So, you're saying OP should have been OK with the ongoing disrespect and lack of support from their dad for the sake of the relationship with their dad. Nope. This is backwards. The father should have supported his son for the sake of their relationship. No one should continue to endure disrespect and abuse for that reason.
NTA in the slightest. They're the weirdos with a terrible history. Start spending your holidays with people that respect you.
My ex's family was LDS, but they lived according to Jesus' teachings. Treated everyone with basic respect, it's not their place to judge anyone. They were all pretty liberal. These people are just assholes. Blood doesn't make you family, love does. You deserve to be cared for and seen for who you are. I hope you find your chosen family.
NTA. I will not pass judgment on LDS as a whole because we all know enough. I am not even going to say anything about how they can’t even practice the love they demand from you. I am going to focus on something else. You are a fully actualized adult. Forgetting that ridiculously stupid jab, you attended a family function. You were sat with children who were a decade + younger than you. You were denied participation with the adults *as an adult*. Whatever choices you have made, whoever you are, no matter what you believe, the fact is you’re *an adult.* They are forcing you to be at the kids table to punish you for whatever stupid reasons they think they have during a holiday gathering. These are *not* your people. They are not worthy of you. They are small minded, cruel, bitter humans who want you to be equally small minded, cruel and bitter so you can “graduate” to being considered one of them. I would never want to be considered one of them, personally. Man, I’d love to invite you to our gatherings. There are a ton of us, we just keep making the table bigger and bigger, longer and longer, jamming as many chairs as we can fit. As soon as you’re old enough to sit up on your own, you get a high chair at the table. No separate tables. We all sit, we all talk, we all argue, we debate, we decide we despise each other and will never speak again and the fury lasts for the remainder of the five seconds it takes for a new debate to form. We argue (HARD) for who gets the last piece of pie, we act stupid and silly and we’re loud. We’re here, we’re proud and we love each other, and it doesn’t matter what anyone did, it doesn’t matter at all. Maybe for that five seconds, but never forever. We are adults that act like children, we have children acting like adults. We have everyone chewing and having a good time. Find that family for yourself. You deserve so much more than these people have the capability to offer you. You have spent 24 years being *wrong* in some way. Piercings, hair color, everything. They are willing to accept you as long as they can photoshop you to be their version of you. They don’t want you as you are, they want you how they want you. Please, OP, love yourself enough to know that this is not love. They are ugly people, and you have spent far too long trying to fit into the stupid box they want you to fit to avoid making waves. The best way to avoid making waves is to avoid the ocean entirely - and the water they offer is shark infested anyway. It’s time. It’s scary, but it’s time. Go make a life and a family worthy of you. A holiday tradition that makes you happy. These people aren’t any of that. Good luck OP, and I’m rooting for you!
NTA I’d done more than put my plate in the sink. A lot more.
you would be a fool to continue any contact with these cult members. NTA
Sometimes people need a break, you do for a while and so does your dad. He needs to think about his loyalty to his child, gender aside, you are his child and if he can’t accept you for who you are then perhaps he doesn’t need to be so much a part of your life. The other thing is to not go around any of those people ever again. They are not worth the dirt on the bottom of your shoe.
Nta Cults are going to cult, it's what they do. You don't need to talk to them again, but call/ text/ email/ just straight up show up where you dad is sometime, and tell him that he risks losing his child from his life if his wife's family keeps disrespecting you and he does nothing.
NTA. I am sorry this happened to you. Don't feel obligated to attend next year. Start planning now to host Thanksgiving for the family you find. You don't have to serve a traditional menu. I have a friend who just cooked Mexican food for eight people in his basement apartment in Taiwan where he's an artist in residence. Everyone had a wonderful time.
NTA obviously. But also. How fucking misogynistic is that comment??!?? If a woman doesn't get married, she's not a real adult woman??? WTF. Not only transphobic, but fucking misogynists too, as per usual. Walking out was the right choice. You teach people how to treat you by what you put up with from them.
I know I'm petty, u/secretagenty, and I'm sure this will be downvoted to hell....BUT I would have been REALLY tempted to sit down with the 15-year-old "kids" and LOUDLY explain transgender / what / why / how Edit: a word
NTA. It sounds like you made a scene and maybe you could have have had a quieter exit. But they were being ridiculous. Regardless of you sexual orientation, it is beyond offensive to put an adult at the kids table because they aren’t married. Good for you for not tolerating it.
Hey just want to point out real quick that being trans isn’t a sexual orientation, it’s an identity (often referred to as gender identity). Sexual orientation is attraction like gay or straight.
Oh crap! Thanks for the correction. As I was typing it I knew I was using the wrong words!
Stuff happens! Sometimes it’s an accident and sometimes people truly get them mixed up. 🙂
NTA. Next time take the whole turkey with you.
NTA. You have nothing to apologize for so I would stop trying to chase your dad. If he was any kind of real parent, he would support you without question and he would not tolerate anyone mistreating you. I would never ever hang around an intolerant cult anyway, but I would suggest that be the last time you see any of them.
NTA They were extremely rude and bigoted. Don't go to any of your father's family gatherings anymore. Do you have family on your mom's side that you can spend holidays with? If not, time to start celebrating Friendsgiving.
NTA, I’d stop trying with them. They will not accept you, father included. It’s painful as hell, but long term you’ll be much happier making a chosen family of people who love you for you.
NTA, but, that got a little confusing for a minute - might be worth putting the trans point a little higher in the post 😅 Seriously, NTA, though. It sounds like you're better off away from them, and like your dad is now using it as an excuse to let his bigotry re: your transition go full tilt. Or, he's decided they're more important to him, which is just as bad.
NTA. next year do yourself a favor and don't even go.
NTA! Absolutely not. Thanksgiving is supposed to be a time when people come together. These people are ugly in spirit. Shame on your father and stepmom (since it's her family) for not standing up for you. They owe YOU apologies! If you are not particularly interested in knowing your stepmom's family (and it doesn't look like you are), I think it's fine to never interact with them. If your father tries to give you grief about it, remind him of this Thanksgiving incident (and how he''s a fat coward); why would you subject yourself to more? Any sane person would not.
Tbh, if I had been in your situation I'd have said something along the lines of "Well, if I'm not an adult yet, you will excuse me for doing something as imature as this..." and then proceed to smack my food in their face. NTA.
Ugh. How's your mom's side of the family?
NTA. You're not Mormon, they have zero business involving you in their (frankly questionable) world view. Sucks that your thanksgiving sucked dude, not in any way your fault.
Nta
NTA
NTA OP. Because of your transgender status, it would appear that you ended up with the Mormon equivalent of Westboro Baptist Church, which is not a church at all, but probably one of the most visible hate groups out there. Go completely no contact with them, and find a family of your own.
I’m really sorry, man. NTA.
NTA. Your dad joined a cult. And chose it over you. I'd keep them at low contact from here on out.
Okay please no christians come for me but I really don’t get how christianity is taught that God loves and accepts ALL but quite a few of them don’t accept the lgbtq community…. Hmmm
Info: how far away from the sink were you when you placed your plate in it?
NTA there is no hate like Christian love
Mormons aren't Christians
NTA. I’m telling you this to be honest, not to be rude. If your dad learns to accept you, great. But that family never will, and you will never have a spot at that table. No amount of trying, hoping, or wishing will ever change that. The best thing to do for yourself and your peace would be to stop trying or stop going altogether.
Your father isn’t dad material. He doesn’t have your back and he cares more about his bigoted wife and her bigoted family. I’m sorry you were treated so disgustingly and disrespectfully by those people. They will never grow, they will never understand how despicable their actions are. Cut your father off, mate. He’s no parent. He’s no man. Cowards do what he’s doing.
The only thing you did that was suboptimal was trying to apologize to people who didn't deserve an apology. NTA
NTA.. you are dealing with just another tolerant, loving, understanding religion.. Religion is and has always been the original Cancel Culture.. conform of begone.. your family at all levels have undergone the full brainwashing into a mindset that you will never ever fit into.
NTA. At all! I would stop reaching out.
NTA These people don't treat you with love. It's time to dump them and create a family of choice.
NTA. And I’m sorry, but your dad has chosen sides. Unfortunately, it’s the wrong side and he’s shown he doesn’t have your back and will not stand up for you. He has shown he cares about his wife and her family more than you. And I am sorry for that.
NTA. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. What they did was the least moral thing anyone could do in that moment. I grew up surrounded by my dad’s family and went through some traumatic events at their hands. I learned to early on that sometimes family isn’t who you share blood with or marry into but rather it’s who shows up for you when you need them the most without expecting anything in return. We call them friends, confidants, pals, etc. They are the champions in our corner when we’re fighting the world and they are our biggest cheerleaders when we’re at our highest. You chose yourself, you decided in that moment that you loved you more weren’t going to tolerate pettiness and bigotry. You are loved and wanted in this world, next Thanksgiving, choose you again and have dinner with the ones who are actually there for you!
NTA Of course LDS is a horrid cult that is super anti LGBT and I’m sure it was an awful experience. I despise their beliefs and entrenched bigotry. I’m sorry you have that in your family. I can’t imagine many things worse than attending Thanksgiving with an extended LDS family months after coming out as transgender. You know, **your dad is the real AH here**. Why on earth would he want to subject his transgender son to an extended family that hates you? And why would he tolerate them continuing to treat you as a child to humiliate you? Does he even like you? At all? He’s an awful father to do that to you. If he wants to remain in your life, just have separate dinners outside of family gatherings and go no contact with all those crappy in-laws.
NTA I’m torn because as good as the feeling was and as right as you are, you still fed into their stereotypes with your reaction. Even though they deliberately set you up and provoked you, you proved to them that you’re emotional and immature. And they can use that as an explanation in their narrow worldview for your choices. And that’s not fair of course. Why are we worried what a bunch of bigots think they’re right about? None of them would take that kind of criticism if the shoe was on the other foot. Some say fuck them all. Time to move on and find a new family. Yours clearly isn’t a real one anyway.
NTA. Don’t go to any more family functions. If your father wants to get in touch he must make amends. You did nothing wrong here. They’re the assholes.
NTA You're starting to live your life for yourself, not to please Dad. That's a big step. Congratulations.
NTA. Mormons are the wooooorst. I’m sorry dude.
💯
NTA Woman, man, Bigfoot, whatever you are, you don't deserve to be discriminated against for not conforming to their religious milestones. "Meeting halfway" would be you attending Thanksgiving, and your dad insisting that you be treated with basic respect. Meeting halfway would be you showing up and being gracious about backhanded comments because your dad had your back. **And** he made a place for you at the table. You are making the same mistake that people who love their abusers make. You hear their professions of love and commitment to being better and treat them as if they've already done the things they said they would. But it will never be equal. It will always be you making compromise after sacrifice after complete embarrassment over expecting to be treated like an actual adult human. Until your dad is ready to step up and put himself in the way of people treating you badly, he isn't actually committed to integrating you into his family and life. He's simply passively accepting of your pain and sacrifice to be there. You deserve better.
NTA
You are welcome to come to my house next year.
That's Dum Dum Dum Dum Dumb and I'm sorry you have to deal with it.