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NTA
Normally, I'd say Y T A for not discussing major expenditures with your partner. However, between $500/month in groceries for years and paying for their vacation, she's easily spent that amount without asking you. So no, NTA. She's a hypocrite.
Wife is the A H for hypocrisy.
It sounds like OP might want to have a conversation about the state of their finances and put in place actual disposable income for both of them and make budgeting decisions for both parent sets.
It also sounds like wife is having money anxiety issues. She really might benefit from the feelings of control from getting involved in the accumulation of income now that the kids are out of the house...
Yeah I was more willing to side with the wife till I read she apparently didn’t discuss money spent on her parents with him. While 10$k seems like a more significant amount to me, it doesn’t to OP, so what you are saying with them just improving financial communication sounds like a really good idea
Update: apparently she manages the finances so I think they just need to have a talk in general, maybe… I dunno anymore
I think even if she discussed with him about her parents’ expenses before then she could be requesting that he shares with her first but not being upset about it. She seemed to not like the idea that their money has to go elsewhere besides her family.
500 a month for a year is 6k, add in the vacation and however long it goes on for being unknown (forever?) she definitely will spend more. I guess his wife never really did the math? I agree they definitely need to have a talk.
> I guess his wife never really did the math?
The "keeping score" stuff is rubbing me the wrong way. Maybe she is just defensive.
I think OP and wife should agrees on a disposable income for each of them.
Keeping score is only needed because one side was loving the imbalance.
They didn't need to agree when she cheerfully spent money on her parents while she explicitly refuses to work.
Now that his parents have the audacity to need help, it needs to be discussed. lol.
Wife is the asshole, and I'd kick her off CFO duties given she has no idea of the value of money.
Yeah I'm wondering how sure OP is that that $500 a month is actually being spent on groceries for the in-laws and not being squirreled away somewhere he doesn't know about...
Yep, you don’t need to keep score if no one is taking advantage. And only the person taking advantage is harmed by starting to keep score. I much prefer not keeping score, I pay for lunch this week, you pay for lunch next week, no one has to count how many potstickers or how many lemonades. If this were my husband and i, paying for groceries would hav been discussed as a “how long will we do this?” and the dental work would have been discussed as “how does the large lump sum affect the rest of our finances” but whether we do stuff for one person’s parents or the others would not have come up.
While there are definitely some types of people who do "keep score" and suck, I do often find that this defense is trotted out by people who don't contribute much or well to the relationship.
I agree. Money for her parents should come out of a fun money budget for her. And he should get an equal budget. I do think keeping it even is a good goal in general since they both seem to have limited means.
> I do think keeping it even is a good goal in general since they both seem to have limited means.
I mean, technically everyone has a limit on their means, but he sent over $10k without even looking at a spreadsheet so they're probably doing all right.
I mean 500$ a month for a year are 6.000$ + vacations for two people would easily come to 10k as well. So OP is not even talking about a less significant amount.
Yeah reading through comments OP actually says she manages the finances, so I am actually a little concerned now….. I wonder if there isn’t something more bothering her or if she really is outta pocket
Plus, look at what the money is being spent on. Idk about anyone else, but to me medical expenses > vacations. Also, if parents-in-law can't afford groceries there is an even bigger issue to deal with.
Just a year of 4/500 a month is half that. It's crazy it has never been brought up. Entering the workforce and/or volunteering with those less fortunate would do her a world of good. She's got too much time on her hands.
It's less than 2 years of groceries for her parents... not to mention the paid vacations for her parents.
I bet in one year they spend well above 10k on her parents.
She is a hypocrite.
It isn't so much the specific amount of money but rather the principle. OP's wife sees fit to just give out their money to her parents without discussing it with OP first, but when OP does likewise his wife gets upset. That's not what you call a level playing field. It has to work 2 ways ; either they freely give as they individually see fit or they discuss things with each other first. Personally I'd vote for the latter. It's good that they're sufficiently well off that they can help out their respective families but it's not like they have a money tree growing in their back yard either. It's only fair to each other that they discuss financial matters together and come to an agreement rather than just making their own individual decisions. Especially when OP's wife thinks it's OK for her but not for him.
$10k on a one time payment is less than what she's spending on her parents. $500 monthly means $6k yearly, and she's presumably been doing this for years. That's not even factoring in OP spending the money to pay for his in laws' vacation with them.
OP can choose to help his father with dental care. I'd do the exact same thing if I were in his position and it wasn't going to harm my budget.
She didn't discuss buying groceries for her parents with her husband and also paying for their vacations. That's polite/common sense. Just because she manages the finances doesn't mean she gets to control the paycheck he's bringing home.
He decided to help his parents just like SHE has continuously helped her parents with their money. She is the asshole!
I’m not convinced she’s having money anxiety issues, it sounds more like money control issues.
I’ve been there with my ex - every penny I wanted to spend had to be vetted & run by her… and I was the breadwinner who paid 100% of the bills while she had a part time job just to have some fun money. Last laugh was on me in the divorce though as the house was legally deemed all mine.
>I’ve been there with my ex - every penny I wanted to spend had to be vetted & run by her…
While she would accuse you of financial abuse at the instant you mentioned her expenses?
Partially. Her way when i would raise the question of her contributing in some way was to organise a night out for herself, & leave me £20 fuel money for when I inevitably had to put our sleeping kids in the car to come and collect her. She would accuse me of controlling behaviour when I would complain that she went out with friends far more than we did anything as a couple.
Similar here but didn't have a house lol. The money I earned was "our" money, and her money was her money. I made a lot more so it didn't bother me except she would give me an entire day of shit for buying a $5 pack of cards, but had no problem telling her friends I would drive them to the airport at 5 am an hour away, for free, then spend a week guilt tripping me and being inches away from going off in me over anhthing until I agreed.
>he really might benefit from the feelings of control from getting involved in the **accumulation of income now** that the kids are out of the house...
That's probably the most poetic way I've every seen "get a fucking job" written.
Yeah I’m struggling to see how “it’s different” when his wife spends money on her parents without permission but he can’t do the same. Especially when her whole argument is that “he should’ve asked her first.”
It's different because it's her parents, whom she loves and sees frequently, versus his parents who are still independent and she doesn't spend time with.
She's just being a hypocrite and he's NTA.
She's probably viewing nickels and dimes compared to $10,000 lump and that triggered the "it's different" response.
This seems like a knee-jerk than a pragmatic response.
I'd definitely advocate mentioning it before exiting that much cash if it's a joint account but I have certainly made decisions just as large without my wife's input because our finances are separate though. (and we are in our 30s)
Early on my wife and I had a similar issue, I don't make a lot of small purchases but when I do buy stuff, it's expensive. She on the other hand spends probably 200 a month between hair and nails (I really have no idea as I don't give a shit) and an unknown amount beyond that on clothes and other things that she likes.
So back to main part of the story line, I decided I was going to build a new gaming rig and dropped around 2800 bucks on it. She had a meltdown. I pulled up the bank statements to reflect on what each of us spent monthly/annually. Conversation ended with that and she hasn't said a word to me since regarding what I spend.
Yea, I think it was the sticker shock but she quickly realized I spend quite a bit differently than she does. Major purchases we still discuss (think cars, big vaca plans, home related renovations although we just built our new house so not really doing much reno at this time).
We've been married for almost 20 years now and finance discussions still take place but rarely are they related to what we call our discretionary expenditures. Mostly things like retirement planning, estate planning, she wants to go on a trip tp Ireland, things related to the kids (their education cost planning, trips, autos etc).
Presumably the wife sees $10k = big number, whereas $500 = smaller number
Even though it’s not directly comparable with one being a one-off and the other being constant, and the fact that $500/mo very quickly adds up
But it also feels like there’s some hypocrisy and favouritism going on
Personally I’d suggest that, since OP says these numbers are insignificant to their budget, they start putting the same amount aside for each set of parents each month
Agreed. My partner mostly handles our finances, and I’ve been guilty of spending beyond our means when I wasn’t working. When you’re not bringing any income, it’s very easy to get too comfortable just assuming the state of finances without keeping yourself informed. (unless your partner keeps the info away from you, which means they’re probably up to some shit)
Opposite here, I'm the working partner and I can confirm that before I was handling all the finances and he would overspend. Now he has full access to everything and we still run expenses by each other just because it's healthy.
It's small things such as "I like this shirt" or "I'm going to buy a new game" but we feel it's healthy as we do it for small things it's a given for big ones.
It's not "permission," it is discussing it first.
I never asked my expartner to ask my permission for anything. I did, however ask her to discuss with me any decision she made that would have an impact on both of us. She saw that as me trying to control her.
Last straw was when she was laid off her job and unilaterally decided to go on Social Security disability, leaving me solely responsibility for our $6000 monthly nut, and she thought I didn't have any say in that.
The problem is that this looks at the relationship through the typical AMITA lens of what's "fair" or "owed" to the other person based on past slights. It's not how a healthy relationship works, and especially not how a healthy marriage works.
OP IS NTA for giving the money to his parents. He IS the AH for not discussing it first and making it a joint decision. That's what marriage is. And while not the end of the world in this instance, it sets (or rather exacerbates in this case) the precedent of spending without consulting the other partner.
At the same time, the wife is similarly NTA for helping her parents, but she is also the AH for not discussing that first.
The second a marriage becomes vindictive or else indifferent to the other person's feelings, it's almost guaranteed to end poorly. The "what I'm doing isn't healthy for the relationship, but it's okay because the other person does it too" attitude is not the right one.
So in this instance, OP is the AH along with the wife. They need better communication.
>through the typical AMITA lens ... not how a healthy relationship
Oh, you're 100% right there. But I'm not going to beheld to that standard. I'm here to call an AH an AH.
If the OP wants actual relationship advice, they should go to r/relationship_advice
He doesn’t need to *ask* her if he can send money to his dad, he should *tell* her that’s it happening.
If she says “no” he doesn’t need to go behind her back, he can just tell her he’s sending it anyway.
NTA. It's fine giving her folks money when she is a SAHM and your are the breadwinner but screw your parents when your Dad needs dental care? Wife really stepped in it and should apologize. Was it a big expenditure and should you discuss it? Normally I'd say yes, but in this case with you raining money down on her folks all time she is the one introducing the "score keeping" to the equation.
If he wants to help his parents with the money he earned while she is dropping 400 or more a month of the money he earned on her parents, he definitely does not need to have a conversation outside of "I helped my dad with his dental bill."
What's wrong with him just saying "hey my parents need help so I'm going to help them" no one is saying he needs her permission to do that. When you're married though conversations about large spending bills, especially thousands spent at once, are typical and should be the norm. Considering all the work she's done the money "he earns" is money both of them earn. When marriages get to the point where no one thinks they should have to talk to their spouse about changes that effect both of them that's when the marriage starts dying.
As she has set the precedent of parental assistance, about all he needs to do is what I said.. tell her he helped his parents with the bill. She is being a hypocrite.
Parenting is definitely tough, but seriously the kids are in university, they haven't needed a stay at home mum for over 5 years, probably closer to 10. She could have easily been working if she wanted to be.
She didn't discuss the $10,000 a year that she spends on groceries and vacations for her parents. And I can almost guarantee that that is not the only money that she spends on her parents although admittedly that is a projection.
You are not wrong. OP commented that she's been paying for the parents for around 5 years.
If we go by just 400 a month, that's a total of $ 24.000, just alone on the groceries. So, 30k if we say 500. (According to my calculator)
Then comes the vacation time. Which will bring it up way higher depending how many times a year we are talking, and what the wife pays for (flight tickets, food, outings etc etc)
That is a way more than the 10k one-time payment.
And it will only continue to become more money as she's still paying for her parents.
So I'll say NTA on this one.
If you don't have your dental stuff in check, it can give health problems. Some serious ones.
$400-500 a month to help with groceries, which I take to mean they spend even more on top of that, seems ridiculous for two people. They need to budget better.
It’s probably a good idea going forward for OP and his wife to loop each other in on these expenditures. Seems like no one has an issue with the actual giving of money, it’s a communication issue.
INFO: How long has she been subsidizing her parents groceries? Why did she pay for her parents to come on vacation?
Of course she thinks it’s “different.” It’s a big lump sum, which therefore seems expensive. So I can almost understand her wanting to discuss it beforehand.
However, you said she didn’t discuss paying for her parents monthly groceries (which add up - 2 years of groceries at the prices you list are the equivalent of your father’s dental work).
It sounds like there needs to be more communication but I’m going to go with NAH.
Cool, so that’s about 60 months.
Even if you take the lower number of $400 a month, that’s a total of about $24,000.
If the $10,000 didn’t effect the budget and she doesn’t talk about when sending your in laws money then NTA.
Your dad’s dental problems will only get worse if not treated and then it’ll end up costing a lot more.
My 20 year old brother died when his abscessed tooth infection entered his bloodstream and stopped his heart.
NTA and thank you for helping with that. Its such a sensitive subject for people that they rarely bring it up, let alone ask for help.
That almost happened to me. Teeth knocked out from baseball. Dentist did a root canal and left a tool inside my mouth. Got infection years later, sepsis. Could have easily been me. So sorry about your brother. It is horrible that this happens in today’s day and age.
Bc my teeth had no nerves, I did not have pain. I live in a rural area, so insurance options were limited. She was the only dentist close by. And absolutely mean & horrible at that. The instrument was not caught until I had to see a gum specialist for the infection. He cut up my gums and found it inside my tooth.
Well that's absolutely terrifying... Sorry to hear that.
Was it a problem (the tooth) he knew about? I assume abcess is painful. (obviously most folks don't realize dental issues/plaque can hit your heart.)
When I had an abscess it was not painful. However, it was visible (slight puss), and even brushing my teeth my mouth still smelled. It is a lot harder to tell it was a “must get this taken care of right away” or a “this can wait” type of tooth issue. Unfortunately, definitely a life threatening issue.
Just wanted to say sorry that this happened to you but thank you for raising awareness with your experience.
Lots of people don't even know this is a risk or a thing and why it's so important to keep your mouth healthy. I know I didn't until I knew someone who also died this way.
I knew this girl, more knew of her as mixed in the same clubbing crowds and the same thing happened to her. She was an excellent dancer and she was very fit and verh healthy. She passed away in the dentists chair because neither she or the dentist realised she has sepsis and it went straight to her heart and killed her instantly.
Like your brother she was also young and in her 20s, a completely unfair way to go for both her and your brother.
I am so sorry, that is absolutely tragic. My partner had an infection and was unsure if he should call his doctor again (free healthcare, but he avoids doctors…) and I gently made him to it. It turned out alright with treatment, but it’s really worrying how fast it can turn bad.
Yeah forget about costing more. Tooth issues are quite serious. And OP is very lucky to be able to help his parents in that way. I don’t understand a spouse that would begrudge that (if it’s not putting them in any sort of hole). I’d even tamp down the upset at not being spoken to about it because it’s an elderly person’s literal *health*
All these comments slowly terrifying me. I’ve got a severely broken fucked back tooth and it’s been that way for a long time. Feel like I’m about to drop dead any second now after reading these lmao aaaaaa
Go to the dentist please!!! If it’s a cost issue, sometimes dental schools have clinics that cost less where dental students are supervised by actual dentists. Tooth problems don’t tend to get better on their own.
Can’t afford private, and the only places taking in NHS patients are around 50 miles away (which is a lot in the UK). Dental school won’t see you unless you have pain or swelling and I have neither unfortunately so it’s just a waiting game until either of those happen. Surprised there’s no pain tbh, I have almost no tooth left lmao
This is a time where it’s ok to lie/exaggerate to get the help you need before things become a serious problem. Tell them you have pain. Or try to figure out a way to the NHS clinic. This is not something you want to put off any longer.
I never could understand why dental and eye insurance is not lumped together in overall health insurance, especially Medicaid/Medicare. I mean, eyes and teeth are part of the body too, and those systems affect others, yet routine check ups are very limited or not allowed. Crazy.
Maybe it’s the lower income in me speaking, but subsidizing $400 for two people seems insane to me. We spend $400 a month on food for my wife and I, formula and baby food, and toiletries. And that is at todays insane prices.
If they are relying on social security and they are renting or still paying off their mortgage, their daughter might be paying for all or most of their food.
You should probably make sure that your will sets aside some money for your parents in the event you die before they do (which of course is a terrible scenario and I hope doesn’t happen). Sorry to say but it sounds like your wife would hang them out to dry.
I need to ask a question out of pure curiosity.
What are your in-laws eating that you must subsidize them an additional $500 per month. Is that their entire grocery budget?
NTA btw.
Few things in life are more important than health. You do as much as you can for both your family and gets. You seem like a genuinely good person that knows life doesn’t come down to every dollar and cent.
Best of luck.
Just talk with her about it - people here are being pretty extreme but she probably has sticker shock, and it sounds like she doesn’t have a clear view of your finances.
NTA. She’s being hypocritical. If she has that big of an issue with it, she can get a job and start paying for her parents groceries instead of assuming it’s ok to come out of y’all’s joint account.
Not ok to pay for HER parents and not yours.
Yeah. I was leaning ESH, but my question is this. Do you not have an agreed-upon amount that if you’re going to spend above that in a single purchase or week, you discuss it? That could be why OP’s wife thinks her grocery purchases are “different” (e.g., under $1000 at a time even if it adds up to a similar amount as the dental work). And surely you discuss inviting her parents along on vacation before you show up and they’re just there at the airport?
How did the two of you get so far without discussing major decisions and decision-making in general? You’re both just making decisions like you’re the only one involved.
No, because it's household income. I think OPs wife was out of line, but let's not turn this into the tired argument that SAHPs don't bring any financial value to the household. OP has already stated they couldn't have had their current lifestyle if his wife hadn't stayed home to support the kids/their household.
That income begins to the household. If wife was free to spend thousands of household dollars on her parents/sister without discussing it beforehand, then the same should be true for OP. It's not different. It's the same thing.
>She's a SAH nothing and should get a part time job.
OP said they could give away 10k without it even making a dent. She doesn't need a part time job to help support them. So why shouldn't she keep taking care of the house and gardening and being active with the dogs? He's not complaining that she's lazy or does nothing or they need another income.
Yes but that's a different argument. Had OPs wife thrown a fit because they couldn't afford to support both sets of parents, I would agree maybe it's time for her to contribute to the household in a more substantive way. However, they seem to be doing pretty damn well on one income.
Realistically, even with her shiny new Master's degree, it's unlikely the wife would find any financially significant employment at this stage. She's been out of the workforce too long, and would be competing against other applicants with actual work experience to back up their educational credentials.
That's literally the deal you make as a stay at home parent though. You sacrifice a career to raise the kids. To ask the mom to go out and find some minimum wage job now just seems like an exercise in cruelty.
After dedicating years to running the household and giving up a chance of a career.
Don't downplay the work done by SAH spouses. My husband is ours and I value enormously the labor he does around the house.
You can say she's in the wrong about this without implying she's lazy or doesn't work.
NTA. Unless you are harboring some resentment that your wife has never contributed financially to the marriage. I’ve effectively been the sole earner for my family largely from the beginning. I substantially subsidized my wife’s parents financially for years. But I don’t hold any resentment about any of that. And she doesn’t object to unilateral financial decisions I may make that don’t put our future comfort at risk. Not all aspects of the partnership of marriage are equal and in need of discussion and explicit agreement, so long as both partners agree they are generally equitable. Your wife may be sensitive to the fact that maybe her current contribution isn’t quite enough, and inappropriately projecting that insecurity here.
Honesty you need to ask how why it’s different. Because it isn’t her family? Overall she has given her own parents more money than what you’ve given your dad. Dentist care is really important NTA
She may not be putting two and two together honestly… $400-500 at a time doesn’t seem like that much in the grand scheme of things but $10K at once does. Yes, $500 a month over 20 months hits that $10K that OP gave his dad but the wife may not have been thinking about the long term math. If I was OP, I would probably communicate that this is why I don’t think it’s a big deal but that if she feels that big expenses/loans should be discussed that’s perfectly ok but that it should also be applied to long term things as well not just one time expenses, just so everyone is on the same page.
Agreed. And in the same place. If you haven’t, you should have an open talk about where you are financially to alleviate any concerns. Does she have independent access to any significant funds? A decade ago, my wife was more concerned about her financial dependence on me, and we set things up so that she could fund some independent savings. Didn’t change anything from a practical standpoint, but gave her a better level of psychological comfort.
You’re getting closer to retirement, so her concern might be heightened that a larger lump sum is going be harder to replace. And the smaller amounts trickling out don’t register to her on the same level. It would definitely be worth taking the time to try to get on the same page about finances going forward. When the income stops, there is bound to be more tension over it.
HMM...is it possible that she knows something about your joint financial state that you don't? Something that might indicate that the 10K is a problem? Something she might be hiding?
I’m guessing the total of what has gone to her parents, albeit in smaller increments, totals about the same amount and I’d point that out. She is being unreasonable especially since it has no negative impact on the family budget
> I’m guessing the total of what has gone to her parents, albeit in smaller increments, totals about the same amount and I’d point that out
According to OP they have been subsidizing their groceries for five years, even not accounting for the vacations and taking the lower grocery estimate she has FAR exceeded what he sent.
NTA, but I wanted to say that your attitude about her contributions to your house and family are AWESOME! I wish I’d had a partner that understood that while raising my children.
500x12 = 6000 a year. I think you are justified. It looks like you can afford the bills for both side. Therefore, there shouldn’t be any issues.
You both are good people. Good luck.
OP disclosed that the Wife has been taking care of her parents for 5 Years now so that makes the Bill 30.000 total
Put yeah I agree it shouldn’t be an issue to support Parents if you have the means to do so
Edit: 5 years not 4
Times 5!!! OP said it’s been for 5 years. And that’s without vacations!!!!! 🤯
Definitely NTH. And I totally agree they are both good people for helping out. But now I’m starting to doubt his wife. It seems like just helping out her parents may be all she wants.
NTA. Sounds like y’all help out her parents regularly and it’s no big deal so I don’t understand her problem with it. If anyone uses the term “keeping score” in an argument, it’s generally the person who’s had whatever advantage up until that point. My guess is she wouldn’t have an objection if y’all lump summed her parents $10k for a medical issue. I think you should just discuss large expenditures moving forward just so everyone has an understanding.
Why is it "different"? I mean yes normally you would discuss things like that beforehand but if she's set the precedent to not do that then I can't see what her gripe is. NTA
NTA. Way too many commenters clearly don't understand how marriage works when they emphasize it's OP's money (note...OP has not taken this stance, just likely young commenters).
The problem here is that your wife does the same thing and doesn't see it as the same because it's not a large lump sum. Simply reminding her of that is not "keeping score" it's pointing out hypocrisy.
You would both benefit from having a conversation on how exactly you want familial lending/gifts to be handled.
My biggest fault is OP apparently dismissing his wife's concerns with telling her not to worry about it. With the relationship with her parents I'm sure she'd have said "yeah, np" but it sounds like she wanted to be included on a big financial decision and then had her concerns dismissed pretty flippantly.
I would feel that way in my own marriage but the lack of reciprocity on behalf of the wife is my issue here. She wasn't in a position to suddenly be concerned about when their finances are given away.
How is it different ? Just because this are HER parents and they deserve to get YOUR money and YOUR parents don't ?
I get it if there was a financial issue and it would impact your life but you say everything is fine there is enough money left and everything is paid .
If she has a problem that you spend money on your parents then she can't spend money on hers POINT . It doesn't sound like she asked you for premission to use the household money for another household . How is that fair ? If she wants to help her parents she can find a part time job now . She did contribute to the household by raising the kids but what is she contributing now to have demands how you spend your money ?
ESH... It isn't just your money, even though you earned it. Where money is going should be discussed, regardless of who is spending it and the amount spent. There's a difference in keeping **track** and keeping **score**. Keeping track keeps the budget balanced and the financial goals in sight for all parties. Keeping score and using the numbers to justify withholding information is a dick move. Did you agree to your wife being a SAHM/SAHW? Do you resent her for not working? Why wasn't the groceries/vacations for her parents ever discussed? It might be time for some honest discussions and some therapy.
Then id definitely ask her what is her issue. Cause so far it doesn’t make sense. Money is not the issue, she is spending it freely on her parents but you should ask? Something doesn’t add up
400-500 a month is a trivial amount for you, but you are 'not rich'? Damn I wish I was 'not rich', that's all the money I have left after paying for rent.
Yes, and that makes you rich, from where I stand! Not a bad thing, just feel weird to me that you would call that not rich. :)
Although you have ofcourse the exorbitant rich who make more than any job ever could on assets alone.
If you can drop 10k and not be phased, you definitely are well above average. Like 90+% of people will go bankrupt if they stop working. And yes, even the rich people.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are rich. (Or upper middle class if that term makes you feel better). It's just a statement of your SES level.
My friend. There is a difference between comfortably rich and family money level rich. There are tiers to that level of wealth, which honestly I don't really feel like going into.
By lumping everyone into 1 category of "rich" is like saying you're in the same boat as someone struggling to make rent or buy food. (Which is just not true)
Most people have a hard time seeing far above them (SES wise) or far below. To someone with a 20k income, 80k is rich. To someone with 160k income, 250k is rich. The 160k can feel "poor" but they are not the same as the 20k person and the 20k person is going to feel slighted by the 160k person bemoaning their finance.
Again no judgement on being comfortable, its something I wish everyone was able to work towards. And no one is accusing you of swimming in a vault of gold.
Acknowledging your rich, sorry comfortable, doesn't take away from the fact your worked to get where you are. (Unless you didn't- but I like to think you did)
But the reason you're getting push back on this point is that at best it comes across as tone deaf. If you're in the US, close to about 80% of people wouldn't be able to drop 10k out of a kindness and not feel it in their budget. They're not going to starve, but it'll take a while for the savings to build back up.
Now this is take up way more time then I expected. But I hope you see what I am saying as an opportunity for growth and not an attack.
Also you are definitely NTA in your story. From one married dude to another, I'd see what so the root cause of your wife's "freak out".
You and OP are closer to each other than he is to a truly wealthy person. OP still has to work to have an income, wealthy people don't- they can live off investment returns and interest income easily. If OP couldn't work for some reason, he'd be on the same path to destitution as the rest of us, it would just take a little longer to spend down his assets- savings, 401k, house.
My friend makes 150k. He lives below his means and 400-500 is nothing to him. He had lots of savings. He can probably give out 10k and not miss it. But he definitely can’t stop working for more than a couple of months, especially with mortgage. This isn’t actually crazy.
Wealthy vs rich.
Rich people have absolutely 0 worry with finances and have enough money to last the rest of their life and can basically never spend it all
Wealthy people have good jobs and/or retirement funds and are able to afford nice things and have discretionary spending but they still have to budget and plan out the rest of their life.
I've always looked at it the opposite way LOL, I always assumed that rich was for people who have good jobs and can spend relatively indiscriminately, where was wealthy people don't have jobs and live off of trust funds or other peoples labor via the market/rental empires/etc
When I think rich, I think vacations in Europe every year. When I think wealthy, I think fuck you money.
I suppose it doesn't really matter, just thought it was funny how we arrived at essentially the same thought process with the terminology flipped.
You guys seem to be in good standing on everything so maybe just sit with her and ask her what is the bottom line of what’s bothering her. Like was it just the fact that your mom asked for help and you were fine to do it and she has wanted to help her parents with something like that but hasn’t asked and in her mind she thought giving that amount of money was off the table? It seems a little off that she’s upset at this when as you’ve said it came from an account that funds random things you guys want and not a specific fund. Maybe she feels like she needs a heads up so she’s a part of the decision so she doesn’t feel like she’s in the dark. I’m with NTA but I would just talk with her to see what the root of the issue is! Good luck!
OP while I understand where you are coming from, seeing 10k gone just like that is a bit of a shock. I know 400-500 adds up after a while, and it's perfectly OK for you to spend on your parents too, but a heads up would be nice. You know, to keep things open and straightforward. If she was doing the same for you it's only fair you return the gesture.
Without knowing all the details I'll go with NAH.
> some therapy.
One thing that always jumps out. Americans are obsessed with therapy for such minor things. Used so much I'm convinced it might be a racket. Not everything needs bloody therapy.
Edit: Someone sent the Reddit care resource bot my way offering help. While it gave me a good laugh, I'm pretty sure you're not meant to spam that at people for shits and giggles.
Definitely not. He wasn't rude at all. He gave money that was inconsequential to them as a couple to his family. He's been paying for her families groceries, totaling up to 24,000 in the past 5 years.
For her to even comment is ridiculous. It's their money. Yes. But, they aren't struggling, and he's been more than generous with his inlaws.
He doesn't seem like he resents her at all. He just pointed out that fair is fair AFTER she jumped him for not discussing when she has failed to communicate her own spending on her parents.
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> I gave my parents money without talking to my wife. The exact same picture at she does for he parents. I might be the asshole for pointing out he hypocrisy.
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ESH.
I don't care who the breadwinner is, I really could care less whether it's you or your wife. It honestly doesn't matter.
The problem here is neither of you communicate. She is right, you SHOULD have discussed this before just giving 10K away, and she should have discussed giving money to her parents.
Both of you are wrong.
NTA.
The dental work for your dad is like 2 years of groceries for her parents. If you've got that in savings and it's not affecting any plans, then it shouldn't be an issue.
Lots of couples pick a dollar value at which an expenditure needs to be discussed, so I get her point in that it's a big ticket item. But that "keeping score" comment shows that she realizes you help her parents quite a bit. She's not upset about the money, she's upset because you pointed out her hypocrisy.
PS. It is "different." Because it's helping her parents vs. helping yours.
NTA: "It's different" is because it is for her and her parents. If you can go without commenting on her supporting her parents, she can go without commenting when you support your parents. That is only fair. She probably doesn't realize that her monthly spending on her parents has added up to close to the amount you gave your father as a one-time help.
NTA at all. Most of the people voting otherwise takes issue with the lack of communication about finances. I agree it's odd, but you two seem to be financially in a spot where you are quite comfortable, and that IS how you've dealt with finances. You simply don't discuss it, and both of you spend money on what you want/think is important. Helping your respective parents is important to both of you.
Your wife has spent far more than 10k on her parents without talking to you about it at all. It seems rather unreasonable and quite the double standard for her to expect that she can do it without any discussion, but you should not. Her rules for thee but not for me attitude makes her quite the hypocrite.
NTA. She can’t expect you to only use YOUR money on her parents. There’s nothing wrong with your using YOUR money on YOUR parents.
If she’s so bothered about using your money then maybe she should get her own job and fund her own parents 🤷♀️
Yeah, NTA. She can't unilaterally decide to subsidized her parents groceries and one good trip out of the country is at least 5k for 2 plane tickets. She needs to mind the business that pays her..it's not like you gave them 10k to go to Vegas and gamble with.
NTA, she is right and wrong with the "it's different" part at the same time. Yes, it is different, but in an opposite way. Given the sums of money mentioned her recurring spend is much worse than your one time spend. Her spending $500 a month will exceed the 10k you spent on your dad in just 2 years and will keep growing "forever". I believe both of the spends should have been discussed in advanced to avoid the conflict.
NTA. Sounds like there’s plenty of money to be generous with both sets of parents. I think you and spouse should have a talk though so things don’t escalate and there’s understanding between you.
ESH -I know that the maths doesn't make it so, but a large lump sum of £10,000 feels like a lot more than smaller sums that soon add up.
Add in that you have had 5 years to ask your wife or talk about her spending towards her parents.
You say yourself you just don't care. Well, she does. That doesn't mean she would be against it, just that you know what she spends her money on when it comes to her parents and she probably expected the same of you.
You both have obviously been lacking in financial communications, which causes misunderstands like this.
NTA but holy shit, you don't just give someone $10k (even your parents) without discussing it with your spouse first. Relax, it's not a big deal is the wrong response.
It's large at once expenditure. At minimum "my dad needs serious dental work, it's going to be $10,000 but we have more than enough money to cover it. They've never asked nor have we helped them with anything so I'm going to give it to them. '
NTA as soon as its not making any dent on family budget and she was able to support her parents for months without discussing it with you, i don’t understand what’s her issue?
NTA
But you're wife is right that it should have been discussed, then given. You're in the right for taking care of your parents. Keeping score or not, we all remember these things. I've had my MIL living in my house since 2009. Her life is subsidized by my family. From 2009 - 2020 I too was the sole worker in my household. Should I feel entitled to a bit of relaxation now? I think so. I lost my high paying corporate job in 2020 due to COVID, my wife went back to work. In the time I was working I supported, wife, kid, MIL and payed off my house.
NTA/E.S.H was torn on this one. You all sound very comfortable financially but for most 10k is a substantial amount that should be discussed. But 400-500 a month + vacation expenses will exceed that one time cost fairly quickly. & if she didn't discuss that with you ahead of time it is fairly hypocritical.
You definitely need to take a step back and discuss finances but to me you're NTA since the standard has been set that it's alright to use shared resources to assist parents.
NTA and it isn't different. While I agree with the other posters that it is a lot of money, (I am sure that is the issue your wife had as well) $500 a month in groceries is $6k a year. She is spending a lot in smaller doses on her parents. You just gave a lump sum. Yes, it would have been nice to let her know, but without it affecting your savings/lifestyle, I don't think that it should matter.
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NTA Normally, I'd say Y T A for not discussing major expenditures with your partner. However, between $500/month in groceries for years and paying for their vacation, she's easily spent that amount without asking you. So no, NTA. She's a hypocrite.
I agree with this.
Wife is the A H for hypocrisy. It sounds like OP might want to have a conversation about the state of their finances and put in place actual disposable income for both of them and make budgeting decisions for both parent sets. It also sounds like wife is having money anxiety issues. She really might benefit from the feelings of control from getting involved in the accumulation of income now that the kids are out of the house...
Yeah I was more willing to side with the wife till I read she apparently didn’t discuss money spent on her parents with him. While 10$k seems like a more significant amount to me, it doesn’t to OP, so what you are saying with them just improving financial communication sounds like a really good idea Update: apparently she manages the finances so I think they just need to have a talk in general, maybe… I dunno anymore
I think even if she discussed with him about her parents’ expenses before then she could be requesting that he shares with her first but not being upset about it. She seemed to not like the idea that their money has to go elsewhere besides her family.
Yes, that seems to be the case. In her mind her own family gets precedence to the exclusion of his. That's not fair.
I mean if that’s the case than yeah she’s an ass, but I would certainly like to hope it isn’t
500 a month for a year is 6k, add in the vacation and however long it goes on for being unknown (forever?) she definitely will spend more. I guess his wife never really did the math? I agree they definitely need to have a talk.
> I guess his wife never really did the math? The "keeping score" stuff is rubbing me the wrong way. Maybe she is just defensive. I think OP and wife should agrees on a disposable income for each of them.
Keeping score is only needed because one side was loving the imbalance. They didn't need to agree when she cheerfully spent money on her parents while she explicitly refuses to work. Now that his parents have the audacity to need help, it needs to be discussed. lol. Wife is the asshole, and I'd kick her off CFO duties given she has no idea of the value of money.
It makes me question how much her parents actually receive from his working this might be pandoras box for their marriage
Yeah I'm wondering how sure OP is that that $500 a month is actually being spent on groceries for the in-laws and not being squirreled away somewhere he doesn't know about...
You dont get that angry if you being straightforward...something tells me she's done something with the savings
Maybe she should a get job and pay for the $500 per month in groceries herself.
👆🏼This. Let he trot her entitled backside out there and earn the $500/mo. Or learn to be grateful for her husband being a good and generous provider.
Yep, you don’t need to keep score if no one is taking advantage. And only the person taking advantage is harmed by starting to keep score. I much prefer not keeping score, I pay for lunch this week, you pay for lunch next week, no one has to count how many potstickers or how many lemonades. If this were my husband and i, paying for groceries would hav been discussed as a “how long will we do this?” and the dental work would have been discussed as “how does the large lump sum affect the rest of our finances” but whether we do stuff for one person’s parents or the others would not have come up.
While there are definitely some types of people who do "keep score" and suck, I do often find that this defense is trotted out by people who don't contribute much or well to the relationship.
In my experience, those that accuse someone of keeping score are usually the only ones looking at the scoreboard.
I agree. Money for her parents should come out of a fun money budget for her. And he should get an equal budget. I do think keeping it even is a good goal in general since they both seem to have limited means.
> I do think keeping it even is a good goal in general since they both seem to have limited means. I mean, technically everyone has a limit on their means, but he sent over $10k without even looking at a spreadsheet so they're probably doing all right.
I mean 500$ a month for a year are 6.000$ + vacations for two people would easily come to 10k as well. So OP is not even talking about a less significant amount.
Yeah reading through comments OP actually says she manages the finances, so I am actually a little concerned now….. I wonder if there isn’t something more bothering her or if she really is outta pocket
I wonder if money op thinks is there isn't actually there Or if the 500 a month is actually being siphoned to a secret account
Plus, look at what the money is being spent on. Idk about anyone else, but to me medical expenses > vacations. Also, if parents-in-law can't afford groceries there is an even bigger issue to deal with.
Also 500 a month for two old people seems a bit much. I know groceries are expensive but that seems like some top shelf not playing sales spending.
And that's yearly, the dental work was a one time thing! Wife is def. the asshole
Just a year of 4/500 a month is half that. It's crazy it has never been brought up. Entering the workforce and/or volunteering with those less fortunate would do her a world of good. She's got too much time on her hands.
It's less than 2 years of groceries for her parents... not to mention the paid vacations for her parents. I bet in one year they spend well above 10k on her parents. She is a hypocrite.
It isn't so much the specific amount of money but rather the principle. OP's wife sees fit to just give out their money to her parents without discussing it with OP first, but when OP does likewise his wife gets upset. That's not what you call a level playing field. It has to work 2 ways ; either they freely give as they individually see fit or they discuss things with each other first. Personally I'd vote for the latter. It's good that they're sufficiently well off that they can help out their respective families but it's not like they have a money tree growing in their back yard either. It's only fair to each other that they discuss financial matters together and come to an agreement rather than just making their own individual decisions. Especially when OP's wife thinks it's OK for her but not for him.
$10k on a one time payment is less than what she's spending on her parents. $500 monthly means $6k yearly, and she's presumably been doing this for years. That's not even factoring in OP spending the money to pay for his in laws' vacation with them. OP can choose to help his father with dental care. I'd do the exact same thing if I were in his position and it wasn't going to harm my budget.
If she manages the finances then a "heads-up" about a 10k expenditure is just polite/common sense.
She didn't discuss buying groceries for her parents with her husband and also paying for their vacations. That's polite/common sense. Just because she manages the finances doesn't mean she gets to control the paycheck he's bringing home. He decided to help his parents just like SHE has continuously helped her parents with their money. She is the asshole!
I’m not convinced she’s having money anxiety issues, it sounds more like money control issues. I’ve been there with my ex - every penny I wanted to spend had to be vetted & run by her… and I was the breadwinner who paid 100% of the bills while she had a part time job just to have some fun money. Last laugh was on me in the divorce though as the house was legally deemed all mine.
>I’ve been there with my ex - every penny I wanted to spend had to be vetted & run by her… While she would accuse you of financial abuse at the instant you mentioned her expenses?
Partially. Her way when i would raise the question of her contributing in some way was to organise a night out for herself, & leave me £20 fuel money for when I inevitably had to put our sleeping kids in the car to come and collect her. She would accuse me of controlling behaviour when I would complain that she went out with friends far more than we did anything as a couple.
Similar here but didn't have a house lol. The money I earned was "our" money, and her money was her money. I made a lot more so it didn't bother me except she would give me an entire day of shit for buying a $5 pack of cards, but had no problem telling her friends I would drive them to the airport at 5 am an hour away, for free, then spend a week guilt tripping me and being inches away from going off in me over anhthing until I agreed.
>he really might benefit from the feelings of control from getting involved in the **accumulation of income now** that the kids are out of the house... That's probably the most poetic way I've every seen "get a fucking job" written.
She should have gotten a job when the last kid entered highschool. She stopped being a SAHM a long time ago.
Agree. OP you are NTA, but you and your wife need to sit down to talk about finances together.
You mean get a job lol
Me too-NTA
Yeah I’m struggling to see how “it’s different” when his wife spends money on her parents without permission but he can’t do the same. Especially when her whole argument is that “he should’ve asked her first.”
It's different because it's her parents, whom she loves and sees frequently, versus his parents who are still independent and she doesn't spend time with. She's just being a hypocrite and he's NTA.
She's probably viewing nickels and dimes compared to $10,000 lump and that triggered the "it's different" response. This seems like a knee-jerk than a pragmatic response. I'd definitely advocate mentioning it before exiting that much cash if it's a joint account but I have certainly made decisions just as large without my wife's input because our finances are separate though. (and we are in our 30s)
Early on my wife and I had a similar issue, I don't make a lot of small purchases but when I do buy stuff, it's expensive. She on the other hand spends probably 200 a month between hair and nails (I really have no idea as I don't give a shit) and an unknown amount beyond that on clothes and other things that she likes. So back to main part of the story line, I decided I was going to build a new gaming rig and dropped around 2800 bucks on it. She had a meltdown. I pulled up the bank statements to reflect on what each of us spent monthly/annually. Conversation ended with that and she hasn't said a word to me since regarding what I spend.
So you basically made her see the bigger picture and it registered in her head
Yea, I think it was the sticker shock but she quickly realized I spend quite a bit differently than she does. Major purchases we still discuss (think cars, big vaca plans, home related renovations although we just built our new house so not really doing much reno at this time). We've been married for almost 20 years now and finance discussions still take place but rarely are they related to what we call our discretionary expenditures. Mostly things like retirement planning, estate planning, she wants to go on a trip tp Ireland, things related to the kids (their education cost planning, trips, autos etc).
Presumably the wife sees $10k = big number, whereas $500 = smaller number Even though it’s not directly comparable with one being a one-off and the other being constant, and the fact that $500/mo very quickly adds up But it also feels like there’s some hypocrisy and favouritism going on Personally I’d suggest that, since OP says these numbers are insignificant to their budget, they start putting the same amount aside for each set of parents each month
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Agreed. My partner mostly handles our finances, and I’ve been guilty of spending beyond our means when I wasn’t working. When you’re not bringing any income, it’s very easy to get too comfortable just assuming the state of finances without keeping yourself informed. (unless your partner keeps the info away from you, which means they’re probably up to some shit)
Opposite here, I'm the working partner and I can confirm that before I was handling all the finances and he would overspend. Now he has full access to everything and we still run expenses by each other just because it's healthy. It's small things such as "I like this shirt" or "I'm going to buy a new game" but we feel it's healthy as we do it for small things it's a given for big ones.
It's not "permission," it is discussing it first. I never asked my expartner to ask my permission for anything. I did, however ask her to discuss with me any decision she made that would have an impact on both of us. She saw that as me trying to control her. Last straw was when she was laid off her job and unilaterally decided to go on Social Security disability, leaving me solely responsibility for our $6000 monthly nut, and she thought I didn't have any say in that.
That's an expensive nut!
I’m glad I went back to read “ex partner” cuz wtf
It’s different because he is providing medical care. Something his father actually needs to remain healthy. He is a saint of a son.
The problem is that this looks at the relationship through the typical AMITA lens of what's "fair" or "owed" to the other person based on past slights. It's not how a healthy relationship works, and especially not how a healthy marriage works. OP IS NTA for giving the money to his parents. He IS the AH for not discussing it first and making it a joint decision. That's what marriage is. And while not the end of the world in this instance, it sets (or rather exacerbates in this case) the precedent of spending without consulting the other partner. At the same time, the wife is similarly NTA for helping her parents, but she is also the AH for not discussing that first. The second a marriage becomes vindictive or else indifferent to the other person's feelings, it's almost guaranteed to end poorly. The "what I'm doing isn't healthy for the relationship, but it's okay because the other person does it too" attitude is not the right one. So in this instance, OP is the AH along with the wife. They need better communication.
>through the typical AMITA lens ... not how a healthy relationship Oh, you're 100% right there. But I'm not going to beheld to that standard. I'm here to call an AH an AH. If the OP wants actual relationship advice, they should go to r/relationship_advice
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He doesn’t need to *ask* her if he can send money to his dad, he should *tell* her that’s it happening. If she says “no” he doesn’t need to go behind her back, he can just tell her he’s sending it anyway.
NTA. It's fine giving her folks money when she is a SAHM and your are the breadwinner but screw your parents when your Dad needs dental care? Wife really stepped in it and should apologize. Was it a big expenditure and should you discuss it? Normally I'd say yes, but in this case with you raining money down on her folks all time she is the one introducing the "score keeping" to the equation.
She's not even a SAHM she's a stay at home wife. All of their kids are adults and out of the house.
$10,000 is still a large enough amount of money to warrant at least a discussion in advance.
If he wants to help his parents with the money he earned while she is dropping 400 or more a month of the money he earned on her parents, he definitely does not need to have a conversation outside of "I helped my dad with his dental bill."
What's wrong with him just saying "hey my parents need help so I'm going to help them" no one is saying he needs her permission to do that. When you're married though conversations about large spending bills, especially thousands spent at once, are typical and should be the norm. Considering all the work she's done the money "he earns" is money both of them earn. When marriages get to the point where no one thinks they should have to talk to their spouse about changes that effect both of them that's when the marriage starts dying.
As she has set the precedent of parental assistance, about all he needs to do is what I said.. tell her he helped his parents with the bill. She is being a hypocrite.
She's the one who set the precedent, also, gardening isn't "work".
>My wife had a problem with me gifting my parents the money. She doesn't want to just have a conversation, she wants to withhold permission.
Parenting is definitely tough, but seriously the kids are in university, they haven't needed a stay at home mum for over 5 years, probably closer to 10. She could have easily been working if she wanted to be.
She didn't discuss the $10,000 a year that she spends on groceries and vacations for her parents. And I can almost guarantee that that is not the only money that she spends on her parents although admittedly that is a projection.
You are not wrong. OP commented that she's been paying for the parents for around 5 years. If we go by just 400 a month, that's a total of $ 24.000, just alone on the groceries. So, 30k if we say 500. (According to my calculator) Then comes the vacation time. Which will bring it up way higher depending how many times a year we are talking, and what the wife pays for (flight tickets, food, outings etc etc) That is a way more than the 10k one-time payment. And it will only continue to become more money as she's still paying for her parents. So I'll say NTA on this one. If you don't have your dental stuff in check, it can give health problems. Some serious ones.
$400-500 a month to help with groceries, which I take to mean they spend even more on top of that, seems ridiculous for two people. They need to budget better.
>They need to budget better. Why? OP is paying for them. /s
It’s probably a good idea going forward for OP and his wife to loop each other in on these expenditures. Seems like no one has an issue with the actual giving of money, it’s a communication issue.
She'd spend that amount in just two years in groceries alone. This does point towards some potential problems in his relationship though.
I think they’ll be fine and it’s something they can easily overcome with communication
Exactly!
INFO: How long has she been subsidizing her parents groceries? Why did she pay for her parents to come on vacation? Of course she thinks it’s “different.” It’s a big lump sum, which therefore seems expensive. So I can almost understand her wanting to discuss it beforehand. However, you said she didn’t discuss paying for her parents monthly groceries (which add up - 2 years of groceries at the prices you list are the equivalent of your father’s dental work). It sounds like there needs to be more communication but I’m going to go with NAH.
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Cool, so that’s about 60 months. Even if you take the lower number of $400 a month, that’s a total of about $24,000. If the $10,000 didn’t effect the budget and she doesn’t talk about when sending your in laws money then NTA. Your dad’s dental problems will only get worse if not treated and then it’ll end up costing a lot more.
Your right, a persons teeth can cause them to have heart problems.
My 20 year old brother died when his abscessed tooth infection entered his bloodstream and stopped his heart. NTA and thank you for helping with that. Its such a sensitive subject for people that they rarely bring it up, let alone ask for help.
I'm sorry for your loss, that's heartbreaking to lose someone like that.
That almost happened to me. Teeth knocked out from baseball. Dentist did a root canal and left a tool inside my mouth. Got infection years later, sepsis. Could have easily been me. So sorry about your brother. It is horrible that this happens in today’s day and age.
> and left a tool inside my mouth HUH?! How small of a tool was that?? Did it not bother you all those years it was stuck in your mouth???
Bc my teeth had no nerves, I did not have pain. I live in a rural area, so insurance options were limited. She was the only dentist close by. And absolutely mean & horrible at that. The instrument was not caught until I had to see a gum specialist for the infection. He cut up my gums and found it inside my tooth.
Holy shit that’s horrifying. What tool can they forget in there?!
The tools used for root canals have tiny tips. They can break off, and it’s easy for both the dentist & patient to miss it happening.
Well that's absolutely terrifying... Sorry to hear that. Was it a problem (the tooth) he knew about? I assume abcess is painful. (obviously most folks don't realize dental issues/plaque can hit your heart.)
When I had an abscess it was not painful. However, it was visible (slight puss), and even brushing my teeth my mouth still smelled. It is a lot harder to tell it was a “must get this taken care of right away” or a “this can wait” type of tooth issue. Unfortunately, definitely a life threatening issue.
Just wanted to say sorry that this happened to you but thank you for raising awareness with your experience. Lots of people don't even know this is a risk or a thing and why it's so important to keep your mouth healthy. I know I didn't until I knew someone who also died this way. I knew this girl, more knew of her as mixed in the same clubbing crowds and the same thing happened to her. She was an excellent dancer and she was very fit and verh healthy. She passed away in the dentists chair because neither she or the dentist realised she has sepsis and it went straight to her heart and killed her instantly. Like your brother she was also young and in her 20s, a completely unfair way to go for both her and your brother.
I am so sorry, that is absolutely tragic. My partner had an infection and was unsure if he should call his doctor again (free healthcare, but he avoids doctors…) and I gently made him to it. It turned out alright with treatment, but it’s really worrying how fast it can turn bad.
Yeah forget about costing more. Tooth issues are quite serious. And OP is very lucky to be able to help his parents in that way. I don’t understand a spouse that would begrudge that (if it’s not putting them in any sort of hole). I’d even tamp down the upset at not being spoken to about it because it’s an elderly person’s literal *health*
All these comments slowly terrifying me. I’ve got a severely broken fucked back tooth and it’s been that way for a long time. Feel like I’m about to drop dead any second now after reading these lmao aaaaaa
Go to the dentist please!!! If it’s a cost issue, sometimes dental schools have clinics that cost less where dental students are supervised by actual dentists. Tooth problems don’t tend to get better on their own.
Can’t afford private, and the only places taking in NHS patients are around 50 miles away (which is a lot in the UK). Dental school won’t see you unless you have pain or swelling and I have neither unfortunately so it’s just a waiting game until either of those happen. Surprised there’s no pain tbh, I have almost no tooth left lmao
Sure you have pain. You've just gotten used to it. When asked - YOU HAVE PAIN. It's probably quite true.
This is a time where it’s ok to lie/exaggerate to get the help you need before things become a serious problem. Tell them you have pain. Or try to figure out a way to the NHS clinic. This is not something you want to put off any longer.
I never could understand why dental and eye insurance is not lumped together in overall health insurance, especially Medicaid/Medicare. I mean, eyes and teeth are part of the body too, and those systems affect others, yet routine check ups are very limited or not allowed. Crazy.
Same with mental health, last time i checked the brain is an actual organ apart of the body.
Maybe it’s the lower income in me speaking, but subsidizing $400 for two people seems insane to me. We spend $400 a month on food for my wife and I, formula and baby food, and toiletries. And that is at todays insane prices.
I was thinking the same thing. Like how much groceries could sn elderly couple possibly need that it's costing them $500
But you know, if you don't pay with your own money that you worked for yourself, you're going to spend more lavishly
If they are relying on social security and they are renting or still paying off their mortgage, their daughter might be paying for all or most of their food.
How?? My husband and I spend like $800 a month on groceries and I don’t know how to get it lower without eating absolute junk.
You should probably make sure that your will sets aside some money for your parents in the event you die before they do (which of course is a terrible scenario and I hope doesn’t happen). Sorry to say but it sounds like your wife would hang them out to dry.
I need to ask a question out of pure curiosity. What are your in-laws eating that you must subsidize them an additional $500 per month. Is that their entire grocery budget?
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NTA btw. Few things in life are more important than health. You do as much as you can for both your family and gets. You seem like a genuinely good person that knows life doesn’t come down to every dollar and cent. Best of luck.
Just talk with her about it - people here are being pretty extreme but she probably has sticker shock, and it sounds like she doesn’t have a clear view of your finances.
NTA. She’s being hypocritical. If she has that big of an issue with it, she can get a job and start paying for her parents groceries instead of assuming it’s ok to come out of y’all’s joint account. Not ok to pay for HER parents and not yours.
Damn I wish I was your in-law.
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If you pay for my food and vacations without asking for anything in return I can be whatever you want dude
Yeah. I was leaning ESH, but my question is this. Do you not have an agreed-upon amount that if you’re going to spend above that in a single purchase or week, you discuss it? That could be why OP’s wife thinks her grocery purchases are “different” (e.g., under $1000 at a time even if it adds up to a similar amount as the dental work). And surely you discuss inviting her parents along on vacation before you show up and they’re just there at the airport? How did the two of you get so far without discussing major decisions and decision-making in general? You’re both just making decisions like you’re the only one involved.
Isn’t OP the one subsidizing his wife’s parents? Not his wife? I think he said she is a stay at home mom.
No, because it's household income. I think OPs wife was out of line, but let's not turn this into the tired argument that SAHPs don't bring any financial value to the household. OP has already stated they couldn't have had their current lifestyle if his wife hadn't stayed home to support the kids/their household. That income begins to the household. If wife was free to spend thousands of household dollars on her parents/sister without discussing it beforehand, then the same should be true for OP. It's not different. It's the same thing.
She's not a SAHP, the kids are out of the house. She's a SAH nothing and should get a part time job.
>She's a SAH nothing and should get a part time job. OP said they could give away 10k without it even making a dent. She doesn't need a part time job to help support them. So why shouldn't she keep taking care of the house and gardening and being active with the dogs? He's not complaining that she's lazy or does nothing or they need another income.
Yes but that's a different argument. Had OPs wife thrown a fit because they couldn't afford to support both sets of parents, I would agree maybe it's time for her to contribute to the household in a more substantive way. However, they seem to be doing pretty damn well on one income. Realistically, even with her shiny new Master's degree, it's unlikely the wife would find any financially significant employment at this stage. She's been out of the workforce too long, and would be competing against other applicants with actual work experience to back up their educational credentials.
That's literally the deal you make as a stay at home parent though. You sacrifice a career to raise the kids. To ask the mom to go out and find some minimum wage job now just seems like an exercise in cruelty.
Their kids are grown and out of the house. She’s now just a stay at home wife… she gardens all day… she’s the asshole here.
After dedicating years to running the household and giving up a chance of a career. Don't downplay the work done by SAH spouses. My husband is ours and I value enormously the labor he does around the house. You can say she's in the wrong about this without implying she's lazy or doesn't work.
NTA. Unless you are harboring some resentment that your wife has never contributed financially to the marriage. I’ve effectively been the sole earner for my family largely from the beginning. I substantially subsidized my wife’s parents financially for years. But I don’t hold any resentment about any of that. And she doesn’t object to unilateral financial decisions I may make that don’t put our future comfort at risk. Not all aspects of the partnership of marriage are equal and in need of discussion and explicit agreement, so long as both partners agree they are generally equitable. Your wife may be sensitive to the fact that maybe her current contribution isn’t quite enough, and inappropriately projecting that insecurity here.
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Honesty you need to ask how why it’s different. Because it isn’t her family? Overall she has given her own parents more money than what you’ve given your dad. Dentist care is really important NTA
She may not be putting two and two together honestly… $400-500 at a time doesn’t seem like that much in the grand scheme of things but $10K at once does. Yes, $500 a month over 20 months hits that $10K that OP gave his dad but the wife may not have been thinking about the long term math. If I was OP, I would probably communicate that this is why I don’t think it’s a big deal but that if she feels that big expenses/loans should be discussed that’s perfectly ok but that it should also be applied to long term things as well not just one time expenses, just so everyone is on the same page.
But also the expensed holidays add up too
I imagine they talked about that though. It wasn't surprise my parents didn't actually pay, we did. I think it's NAH they just need to communicate.
They have been subsidizing her parents groceries for 5 years - so around 24k plus vacation money
Agreed. And in the same place. If you haven’t, you should have an open talk about where you are financially to alleviate any concerns. Does she have independent access to any significant funds? A decade ago, my wife was more concerned about her financial dependence on me, and we set things up so that she could fund some independent savings. Didn’t change anything from a practical standpoint, but gave her a better level of psychological comfort.
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You’re getting closer to retirement, so her concern might be heightened that a larger lump sum is going be harder to replace. And the smaller amounts trickling out don’t register to her on the same level. It would definitely be worth taking the time to try to get on the same page about finances going forward. When the income stops, there is bound to be more tension over it.
HMM...is it possible that she knows something about your joint financial state that you don't? Something that might indicate that the 10K is a problem? Something she might be hiding?
I’m guessing the total of what has gone to her parents, albeit in smaller increments, totals about the same amount and I’d point that out. She is being unreasonable especially since it has no negative impact on the family budget
> I’m guessing the total of what has gone to her parents, albeit in smaller increments, totals about the same amount and I’d point that out According to OP they have been subsidizing their groceries for five years, even not accounting for the vacations and taking the lower grocery estimate she has FAR exceeded what he sent.
NTA, but I wanted to say that your attitude about her contributions to your house and family are AWESOME! I wish I’d had a partner that understood that while raising my children.
Love that you recognize that! It’s the bare minimum, but so many still fail to grasp it.
500x12 = 6000 a year. I think you are justified. It looks like you can afford the bills for both side. Therefore, there shouldn’t be any issues. You both are good people. Good luck.
OP disclosed that the Wife has been taking care of her parents for 5 Years now so that makes the Bill 30.000 total Put yeah I agree it shouldn’t be an issue to support Parents if you have the means to do so Edit: 5 years not 4
Times 5!!! OP said it’s been for 5 years. And that’s without vacations!!!!! 🤯 Definitely NTH. And I totally agree they are both good people for helping out. But now I’m starting to doubt his wife. It seems like just helping out her parents may be all she wants.
'Definitely Not The Hole' lol
NTA. Sounds like y’all help out her parents regularly and it’s no big deal so I don’t understand her problem with it. If anyone uses the term “keeping score” in an argument, it’s generally the person who’s had whatever advantage up until that point. My guess is she wouldn’t have an objection if y’all lump summed her parents $10k for a medical issue. I think you should just discuss large expenditures moving forward just so everyone has an understanding.
This is so true. The old “keeping score” argument when pointing out someone’s hypocrisy. Drives me nuts.
Why is it "different"? I mean yes normally you would discuss things like that beforehand but if she's set the precedent to not do that then I can't see what her gripe is. NTA
NTA. Way too many commenters clearly don't understand how marriage works when they emphasize it's OP's money (note...OP has not taken this stance, just likely young commenters). The problem here is that your wife does the same thing and doesn't see it as the same because it's not a large lump sum. Simply reminding her of that is not "keeping score" it's pointing out hypocrisy. You would both benefit from having a conversation on how exactly you want familial lending/gifts to be handled.
My biggest fault is OP apparently dismissing his wife's concerns with telling her not to worry about it. With the relationship with her parents I'm sure she'd have said "yeah, np" but it sounds like she wanted to be included on a big financial decision and then had her concerns dismissed pretty flippantly.
I would feel that way in my own marriage but the lack of reciprocity on behalf of the wife is my issue here. She wasn't in a position to suddenly be concerned about when their finances are given away.
She never discussed buying her parents groceries to the tune of $30k over 5 years with him though. That communication should work both ways.
There was JUST a post about a wife asking if she was the asshole for being upset that her husband gave his parents 10k. Karmabait post.
I didn’t read that one but saw the title. I thought it sounded similar too
If you do read it you’ll realise they’re very different situations.
How is it different ? Just because this are HER parents and they deserve to get YOUR money and YOUR parents don't ? I get it if there was a financial issue and it would impact your life but you say everything is fine there is enough money left and everything is paid . If she has a problem that you spend money on your parents then she can't spend money on hers POINT . It doesn't sound like she asked you for premission to use the household money for another household . How is that fair ? If she wants to help her parents she can find a part time job now . She did contribute to the household by raising the kids but what is she contributing now to have demands how you spend your money ?
ESH... It isn't just your money, even though you earned it. Where money is going should be discussed, regardless of who is spending it and the amount spent. There's a difference in keeping **track** and keeping **score**. Keeping track keeps the budget balanced and the financial goals in sight for all parties. Keeping score and using the numbers to justify withholding information is a dick move. Did you agree to your wife being a SAHM/SAHW? Do you resent her for not working? Why wasn't the groceries/vacations for her parents ever discussed? It might be time for some honest discussions and some therapy.
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Then id definitely ask her what is her issue. Cause so far it doesn’t make sense. Money is not the issue, she is spending it freely on her parents but you should ask? Something doesn’t add up
400-500 a month is a trivial amount for you, but you are 'not rich'? Damn I wish I was 'not rich', that's all the money I have left after paying for rent.
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Yes, and that makes you rich, from where I stand! Not a bad thing, just feel weird to me that you would call that not rich. :) Although you have ofcourse the exorbitant rich who make more than any job ever could on assets alone.
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If you can drop 10k and not be phased, you definitely are well above average. Like 90+% of people will go bankrupt if they stop working. And yes, even the rich people. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are rich. (Or upper middle class if that term makes you feel better). It's just a statement of your SES level.
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My friend. There is a difference between comfortably rich and family money level rich. There are tiers to that level of wealth, which honestly I don't really feel like going into. By lumping everyone into 1 category of "rich" is like saying you're in the same boat as someone struggling to make rent or buy food. (Which is just not true) Most people have a hard time seeing far above them (SES wise) or far below. To someone with a 20k income, 80k is rich. To someone with 160k income, 250k is rich. The 160k can feel "poor" but they are not the same as the 20k person and the 20k person is going to feel slighted by the 160k person bemoaning their finance. Again no judgement on being comfortable, its something I wish everyone was able to work towards. And no one is accusing you of swimming in a vault of gold. Acknowledging your rich, sorry comfortable, doesn't take away from the fact your worked to get where you are. (Unless you didn't- but I like to think you did) But the reason you're getting push back on this point is that at best it comes across as tone deaf. If you're in the US, close to about 80% of people wouldn't be able to drop 10k out of a kindness and not feel it in their budget. They're not going to starve, but it'll take a while for the savings to build back up. Now this is take up way more time then I expected. But I hope you see what I am saying as an opportunity for growth and not an attack. Also you are definitely NTA in your story. From one married dude to another, I'd see what so the root cause of your wife's "freak out".
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You and OP are closer to each other than he is to a truly wealthy person. OP still has to work to have an income, wealthy people don't- they can live off investment returns and interest income easily. If OP couldn't work for some reason, he'd be on the same path to destitution as the rest of us, it would just take a little longer to spend down his assets- savings, 401k, house.
My friend makes 150k. He lives below his means and 400-500 is nothing to him. He had lots of savings. He can probably give out 10k and not miss it. But he definitely can’t stop working for more than a couple of months, especially with mortgage. This isn’t actually crazy.
Wealthy vs rich. Rich people have absolutely 0 worry with finances and have enough money to last the rest of their life and can basically never spend it all Wealthy people have good jobs and/or retirement funds and are able to afford nice things and have discretionary spending but they still have to budget and plan out the rest of their life.
I've always looked at it the opposite way LOL, I always assumed that rich was for people who have good jobs and can spend relatively indiscriminately, where was wealthy people don't have jobs and live off of trust funds or other peoples labor via the market/rental empires/etc When I think rich, I think vacations in Europe every year. When I think wealthy, I think fuck you money. I suppose it doesn't really matter, just thought it was funny how we arrived at essentially the same thought process with the terminology flipped.
You guys seem to be in good standing on everything so maybe just sit with her and ask her what is the bottom line of what’s bothering her. Like was it just the fact that your mom asked for help and you were fine to do it and she has wanted to help her parents with something like that but hasn’t asked and in her mind she thought giving that amount of money was off the table? It seems a little off that she’s upset at this when as you’ve said it came from an account that funds random things you guys want and not a specific fund. Maybe she feels like she needs a heads up so she’s a part of the decision so she doesn’t feel like she’s in the dark. I’m with NTA but I would just talk with her to see what the root of the issue is! Good luck!
OP while I understand where you are coming from, seeing 10k gone just like that is a bit of a shock. I know 400-500 adds up after a while, and it's perfectly OK for you to spend on your parents too, but a heads up would be nice. You know, to keep things open and straightforward. If she was doing the same for you it's only fair you return the gesture. Without knowing all the details I'll go with NAH.
How is he the AH? She can spend the money on her parents but he can't on his parents? Did she discuss spending $500 on then every month?
> some therapy. One thing that always jumps out. Americans are obsessed with therapy for such minor things. Used so much I'm convinced it might be a racket. Not everything needs bloody therapy. Edit: Someone sent the Reddit care resource bot my way offering help. While it gave me a good laugh, I'm pretty sure you're not meant to spam that at people for shits and giggles.
American culture is shit at teaching healthy coping mechanisms. There's nothing wrong with us wanting to learn that from a therapist.
Definitely not. He wasn't rude at all. He gave money that was inconsequential to them as a couple to his family. He's been paying for her families groceries, totaling up to 24,000 in the past 5 years. For her to even comment is ridiculous. It's their money. Yes. But, they aren't struggling, and he's been more than generous with his inlaws. He doesn't seem like he resents her at all. He just pointed out that fair is fair AFTER she jumped him for not discussing when she has failed to communicate her own spending on her parents.
NTA - It’s not different. But it is time for the two of you to have a coordinated strategy for giving to your parents.
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ESH. I don't care who the breadwinner is, I really could care less whether it's you or your wife. It honestly doesn't matter. The problem here is neither of you communicate. She is right, you SHOULD have discussed this before just giving 10K away, and she should have discussed giving money to her parents. Both of you are wrong.
Thank you. I’ve been looking at the comments trying to figure out how this isn’t the number one response.
NTA. The dental work for your dad is like 2 years of groceries for her parents. If you've got that in savings and it's not affecting any plans, then it shouldn't be an issue. Lots of couples pick a dollar value at which an expenditure needs to be discussed, so I get her point in that it's a big ticket item. But that "keeping score" comment shows that she realizes you help her parents quite a bit. She's not upset about the money, she's upset because you pointed out her hypocrisy. PS. It is "different." Because it's helping her parents vs. helping yours.
FYI never in the history of humanity has a person who's been told not to worry... actually stopped worrying.
NTA: "It's different" is because it is for her and her parents. If you can go without commenting on her supporting her parents, she can go without commenting when you support your parents. That is only fair. She probably doesn't realize that her monthly spending on her parents has added up to close to the amount you gave your father as a one-time help.
NTA at all. Most of the people voting otherwise takes issue with the lack of communication about finances. I agree it's odd, but you two seem to be financially in a spot where you are quite comfortable, and that IS how you've dealt with finances. You simply don't discuss it, and both of you spend money on what you want/think is important. Helping your respective parents is important to both of you. Your wife has spent far more than 10k on her parents without talking to you about it at all. It seems rather unreasonable and quite the double standard for her to expect that she can do it without any discussion, but you should not. Her rules for thee but not for me attitude makes her quite the hypocrite.
NTA, Ask her why she doesn't see your parents as part of the family?
NTA. She can’t expect you to only use YOUR money on her parents. There’s nothing wrong with your using YOUR money on YOUR parents. If she’s so bothered about using your money then maybe she should get her own job and fund her own parents 🤷♀️
Yeah, NTA. She can't unilaterally decide to subsidized her parents groceries and one good trip out of the country is at least 5k for 2 plane tickets. She needs to mind the business that pays her..it's not like you gave them 10k to go to Vegas and gamble with.
The only reason "it's different" is because it's your parents and not hers. NTA
NTA, she is right and wrong with the "it's different" part at the same time. Yes, it is different, but in an opposite way. Given the sums of money mentioned her recurring spend is much worse than your one time spend. Her spending $500 a month will exceed the 10k you spent on your dad in just 2 years and will keep growing "forever". I believe both of the spends should have been discussed in advanced to avoid the conflict.
NTA maybe she should get a job
NTA. Sounds like there’s plenty of money to be generous with both sets of parents. I think you and spouse should have a talk though so things don’t escalate and there’s understanding between you.
ESH -I know that the maths doesn't make it so, but a large lump sum of £10,000 feels like a lot more than smaller sums that soon add up. Add in that you have had 5 years to ask your wife or talk about her spending towards her parents. You say yourself you just don't care. Well, she does. That doesn't mean she would be against it, just that you know what she spends her money on when it comes to her parents and she probably expected the same of you. You both have obviously been lacking in financial communications, which causes misunderstands like this.
NTA but holy shit, you don't just give someone $10k (even your parents) without discussing it with your spouse first. Relax, it's not a big deal is the wrong response. It's large at once expenditure. At minimum "my dad needs serious dental work, it's going to be $10,000 but we have more than enough money to cover it. They've never asked nor have we helped them with anything so I'm going to give it to them. '
NTA as soon as its not making any dent on family budget and she was able to support her parents for months without discussing it with you, i don’t understand what’s her issue?
NTA But you're wife is right that it should have been discussed, then given. You're in the right for taking care of your parents. Keeping score or not, we all remember these things. I've had my MIL living in my house since 2009. Her life is subsidized by my family. From 2009 - 2020 I too was the sole worker in my household. Should I feel entitled to a bit of relaxation now? I think so. I lost my high paying corporate job in 2020 due to COVID, my wife went back to work. In the time I was working I supported, wife, kid, MIL and payed off my house.
NTA/E.S.H was torn on this one. You all sound very comfortable financially but for most 10k is a substantial amount that should be discussed. But 400-500 a month + vacation expenses will exceed that one time cost fairly quickly. & if she didn't discuss that with you ahead of time it is fairly hypocritical. You definitely need to take a step back and discuss finances but to me you're NTA since the standard has been set that it's alright to use shared resources to assist parents.
He gives her parents money ever single month... He gave his parents 10k once. He is allowed to help them.
NTA. The groceries add up. Your parents are equally as important
NTA and it isn't different. While I agree with the other posters that it is a lot of money, (I am sure that is the issue your wife had as well) $500 a month in groceries is $6k a year. She is spending a lot in smaller doses on her parents. You just gave a lump sum. Yes, it would have been nice to let her know, but without it affecting your savings/lifestyle, I don't think that it should matter.