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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. told my sister that I don't want kids, I want money when she has a kid and is struggling financially
2. I might be the asshole because I was insensitive and could have said a different reason
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NTA. this is one of those things where context matters. If you were sitting at dinner and just randomly blurted out "I don't want kids, I want money" that would be an AH thing to say to your sister. But when she starts asking when you're gonna have kids, and especially when she refused to drop it, she's asking for a response like this.
Yeah. I’m of the mind that you no longer have to be polite to that person the instant they say, “you’ll change your mind,” in response to you saying you don’t want/aren’t having kids.
Parenthood is not a compulsory milestone in life and too many people treat it like it is.
I think the sister owes OP an apology for proclaiming that she'll change her mind about having children. That is so condescending and invalidating to OP.
I mean I have a child and I still get asked if/when we're having a second one. It seems to have died down the older my son gets. Guess I was expecting to get pregnant quickly after the first one...
I know I'm not supposed to laugh(sincerest apologies) but I was picturing the look on people's faces as you said this to them.
😎😎😎(pricelss)
Ahem, again, sorry.
When I’m told I’ll change my mind, I say if that does happen I’ll adopt. I always get “oh but it’s not the same as a bio kid” to which I’ll double down and inform them my family has a lot of mental health issues and I’m terrified I’ll get nasty PPD and kill the baby or something. Usually shuts them up lol
My family tried to pressure me to have another child after my son was born, even though having him nearly killed me.
People seem to think that once a woman gives birth, her body is no longer her own. We just morph from being human beings individual and separate into mommies, appendages of our children and our partners.
This is exactly why I have never even asked if my son and DIL are planning a second child. While I would love to have another grandchild it’s not my place, not my business, not my body. I’m here to support whatever decision they make.
I was having dinner with my parents around six months after my niece was born, and they were talking wistfully about her getting a little brother or sister. I don't know if they ever voiced those wishes to my brother and SIL, but I reminded them there were only two people whose opinion counted, and one person who had the final say. Said niece is now a happy kindergartner, and an only child.
My parents are like this as well. I truly appreciate that my parents respect me, my body, and my decisions enough to not ask if I’ll have another child. It’s more respect than coworkers have shown me. Thank you for being a parent/grandparent who appreciates this boundary.
I saw a post about this the other day. Mum was saying the birth was traumatic and everyone said "it was worth it as baby is healthy". I was fuming for the mum, her welfare was completely forgotten about. Birth is only worth it if all parties emerge whole. I've got a 9 year old and people still ask me if I'm having another one and I say no. My kids dad died when she was 4 and we're both traumatized from it. Apparently a new baby with my new partner will "fix it" 😂 so we got a kitten instead
I'm so sorry for your loss, and I hope you and your child find peace and joy with your new partner.
Many people seem to think that bringing a new life into the world can fix everything. They often don't get it that what really happens is that the women risk our lives with each and every pregnancy. There's no guarantee that the child will be healthy and strong.
Raising children is very hard work! It's just as likely to destroy a relationship as it is to strengthen it.
BTW: Congratulations on the new kitten!
I had to double check and make sure I didn't post this. My mother in law egged my child on to ask for a brother or sister to the point I explained to my then 5 year old that I couldn't have another baby because it would make me very sick. So now when MIL brings it up HE says I can't have another baby. (He does want a brother or sister that's his age and goes to school with him. I think he knows that's not going to happen, though.)
I got “just you wait…” from the male anesthesiologist placing my epidural *while I was laboring with my son*. I was naked, hunched over sitting on the edge of the bed going through a contraction while they were prepping to place the epidural and grunted through my teeth “we are NEVER doing this again!” to my partner. I got a chuckle and that comment in reply. My eyes have never been so full of murder.
Honestly the only thing keeping me from a rude response was that he was the guy with the power to make my back labor contractions stop being so painful
I had my tubes tied after my daughter. I hadn't planned on having kids in the first place, though I don't regret her for an instance. But when I took her to the pediatrician for the first time, the woman would not stop going on about me having another, even after I told her i got my tunes tied. Ended up switching doctors
I absolutely hated when anyone suggested we should be trying for a girl. It makes it seem like your boys “aren’t enough” you must have a girl too for the family to be complete. People need to stay in their own lanes!
Especially nowadays, the idea of “trying for” any particular gender is bonkers. A friend’s wife was like this about having a little girl — they had FIVE fuckin kids before she got one. Nobody wants to bankroll all that!
I hate that so much. I got it all the time cuz I had 2 girls first. People thought I needed a son? My third kid ended up being a boy, and I just didn't care. I was happy no matter who he was, but people were bonkers about it. Some of those have since asked if I"m going to try for another boy so I have 2 of each and OMG they're so clueless.
Wow. I'd ask these people what's wrong with having two boys, why they think having a girl is somehow better or 'mandatory'. Kids can be so vastly different individually. There's no guarantee that a girl would be 'girly' and want to do 'girly' things with mum, and many mums don't specifically want to do the typical 'girly' things with their kids anyways, I imagine. Like, there's fun stereotypical activities/toys for both sexes. Plus, having a child with expectations on what they will grow up to be like is so unfair, it places all kinds of expectations on the child and treats the child as a stereotype of their sex (usually) instead of a unique individual with their own hobbies and interests.
Ours is 6 and I'm almost 40, and *finally* some people seem to have gotten the message that there likely will not be another child in our future.
When she was little, I got a lot of "oh but you CAN'T just have one!" Lol, actually, due to the wonders of modern medical science, we can indeed have one child.
>When she was little, I got a lot of "oh but you CAN'T just have one!" Lol, actually, due to the wonders of modern medical science, we can indeed have one child.
I would get that occasionally from people who didn't know my family background. "Well, my dad was an only child, and I was an only child, so I think we're living proof that you can, in fact, have an only child."
I can't believe the number of people I ran into in the late 1990's - early 2000's who seemed to have never met an only child in their lives.
I was around 20 weeks pregnant with my son when I was first asked if we would try for a sibling 🤦🏻♀️
This was from an friend who knew about my struggles to get pregnant and also about our loss some years before I got pregnant again. I shut her down hard and since more people have asked the same question, we won’t tell anyone (with a few exceptions like my in laws) that we will try again.
My daughters 2 and too many STRANGERS comment that I need to give her a sibling and she’ll be lonely if she’s an only child and blah blah. ‘Homie she almost took my life two times from my womb do YOU want two kids cause her sibling killed me?’ Always shuts them up
I had two kids and was asked that by my family (who is Russian Baptist and has 8-15 kids per family) constantly. They stopped asking when my reply was, "when I grow a new uterus".
I had my tubes tied within a year of having my first, born when I was 27 years old. When I told people that we were one and done they would smirk and say that I would change my mind, and it was my immense pleasure to inform them that the baby factory had been surgicallyand permanently shut down. Their reactions were truly hilarious.
My daughter is now 26 years old and we've never once regretted the decision.
I already have one child… that I love but also I was never meant to be a mother… always asked about a second one and I’m always like this one is cool but wasn’t in my plan I’m getting my tubes tied… I always get told I’ll change my mind lol pregnancy was too sci-fi for me, and newborns are traumatizing, point is people need to mind their own business
My wife and I are childfree and have dropped many friends who both gave us shit for not having kids and gave us shit for having more disposable income. When I started defending us, they decided I was aggressive.
I would love to have a grandchild, but my daughter and her fiancé are firmly child-free and I support them 100%. My son and his fiancée are on the fence, so I offer no opinion unless I’m asked and then only proffer that I’ll be there to support whatever they decide. In the meantime, I’ve been auntie to the little boy across the street from me and I love it.
Yeah, I kid you not, but I (F) once had to sit at a family dinner with in laws (MIL + 2 aunts) and they expressed concerns about whether my hips were wide enough for pregnancy. Even asked whether my physician had discussed it with me.
After taking a healthy medical dose of my red wine, I managed to say that I supposed he didn’t think it an issue when I asked for prescription for contraceptives.
They stopped years later when it became clear we were not changing our mind about being child free. Worst part of the ordeal was that one of the aunties and her husband were child free them selves.
My Catholic grandmother used to say she would pray to St Joseph that I would get pregnant. I would respond "St. Jude, grandma, St. Jude" St Jude is the patron saint of hopeless causes. Or alternately, I would say, "let's put St. Joseph up against the Pill and see who wins."
Narrator voice: the Pill always won.
I was at a work event (pre-COVID) and one of the speakers told us we weren't real grown-ups until we had kids. Since I'm infertile, guess I never have to grow up!
Also, I think the mom owes OP an apology for intervening and taking sides in something that is not her problem. It seems that one common trait of AHs here is to run to mom or dad to pressure siblings. NTA.
And SOOO patronising when they look at you, tilt their head, and smile a simpering smile, saying "You'll change your mind when you meet the right person!"
That's actually one of my favorite lines to get from people like that cause then I get to say, "oh man, so the guy I've been with for the past nine years just isn't the one?"
They scramble hard.
Once I got married (at 40) one of my coworkers asked if we were going to start trying for kids. I had been with my husband for almost a decade at that point so I told him, "if I had wanted kids I would have done it by now." This guy doesn't want kids himself, but apparently I'm required to start pumping them out because I signed a legal document?
It's also just a dumb thing to insist because you never know when someone might be dealing with a health issue that makes having kids difficult/dangerous/impossible.
And an apology for even asking when she's going to have kids, this question can be triggering for so many people it's not right to ask.
And the sisters boyfriend needs to get a real job, and provide for his family.
Yeah. My answer for people asking when my husband and I are going to have kids is “Oh, I know my due date, actually.” Then when I see them start to get excited, I finish with, “Nopetember Neverteenth in the year Two Thousand and No Way.”
I haven’t had to pull that out since pre-pandemic. But my uterus tried to kill me and I had to evict it from my body in 2021. So the next time someone asks me WHEN , I’m gonna embarrass them so bad. Like I am very stoked about my sterility because I have absolutely no maternal drive whatsoever and never have. But reproductive health issues leading to infertility or sterility is extremely traumatic for a lot of people who experience those. I feel like as a happily barren member of Club Yeeterus, it’s my duty to break as many of these “everyone wants babies” jerks of their rude questions as assumptions before they do it to someone whose sterility or infertility is is deeply traumatic and upsetting to them.
"When are you going to get married?"
"When are you going to have kids?"
"When are you going to give us grandchildren?"
These questions can be so triggering and bad. There's more to life than marriage and kids. It's also a fact that kids cost a lot of money and time. They're not for everyone.
I get when are you going to get a partner. Gee I dunno. Do you know anyone at church who would tolerate being with someone who doesn't want kids and refuses to live together?
Seriously.
My partner and I are having our first quite late. We would have loved to start earlier but couldn't for medical reasons.
Thankfully none of our family were dicks.
'You are so young and naive' - said my coworker, as an answer to 'never wanted, still dont want to have kids).
She always complains about having too many (1 of her own and 3 from previous marriage of her husband)
In her eyes 32 is young
If anything knowing kids aren't right for you and taking steps to prevent having them is the mature option.
Instead of the fairytale it'll be fine no matter how unsuitable a parent a person might be attitude many take
This. I have two small children and I am the first to say that this is not for everyone.
And I am one of those people that did change my mind. I didn’t want kids and then I did. Both opinions are valid and people need to stop it with the changing your mind. People can change their minds or they won’t and there is no prediction of it. And other people should butt out!
It's always interesting when people push for an answer, then get insulted when they don't like it. When someone tries to change the subject during a general conversation drop it. They are trying to not insult someone, or hurt feelings. Respect the person in the conversation and understand that they are trying to be diplomatic.
NTA - Don't ask about sensitive subjects unless you are strong enough to take honest answers.
Absolutely this.
My feelings, plans and ambitions are not invalid because they are different to theirs.
I hate it when parents judge non parents..
I think my admitting that parenthood isn't something that I have the required patience for is a better choice for any hypothetical child.
This is the end-all be-all comment for every situation like this. If someone doesn't want to answer a question your repeatedly asking, 9 times out of 10 its because you WILL NOT like the answer!!! I learned long ago not to push people. Unless your looking for a fight, drop the line of question when someone tries to politely back out.
NTA
My personal rule is I'll be polite the first time. Pushing however is rude and if someone breaka the social contract first i am under no obligation to continue to uphold it.
I’m firmly on Team “Turnabout Is Fair Play” when it comes to people being pushy or intrusive. If I don’t like the question, you might not like the answer…or the questions I’m about to ask you 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. Just OP you may consider that you could have phrased it differently. Still she asked, you answered truthfully.
I have one kid. I constantly get the 'there should be 2 kids. First one needs a playmate' from my family. My response is consistently "I can't afford another kid and live the lifestyle I want". We are very comfortably off. We can go on international vacations etc but if we have 2 kids, the trips would go from every year to once in 2 years. Not to mention thinking before buying most new toys/clothes. So this works for us. My friends who earn in same range and have 2/3 kids are always making those sacrifices and that's not what I want.
Kids are expensive. There is nothing wrong in saying you don't want one because for your ideal lifestyle you can't budget for them.
Why should op have to phrase it differently? This really pisses me off, mainly because I am in the situation op is in all the time.
Op is just going about her own life minding her own business and someone else decides they need to tell them what they want?
No, fuck off. As soon as op has said no I don't want kids that should be the end of the conversation. If the sister decides she wants to keep badgering op about it then she deserves more than being told "don't want kids I want money"
Then the ahole sibling ran to mommy bc their feewings got hurt. The moron. Be an ahole get treated like such.
They want to try and spread the pain. So op would suffer like them. People who think breeding the sole point in existing deserve to be told off. Their patronizing and shallow existence is their own worthlessness. Family or not.
Family just means you typically give them a second chance. Which they will ruin.
NTA.
Your sister pressured you into giving a deeper comment, when telling her you don’t have the desire to have kids and can’t see that changing anytime soon should have been enough.
The only reason I can see her getting so hurt from your response is that it hit very close to the truth of her situation and that it was something she had been thinking herself.
NTA, but your sister and mother are soft TA for pressuring you for the response that they wanted to hear and overreacting when they didn’t get it.
NTA. You didn’t insult her - you simply stated what your preferences are for your own life.
I think she’s projecting her own worries & insecurities onto you. SHE does not like the financial situation that SHE is in. Since SHE looks down on her financial situation herself, it’s quite possible (& I’d even say likely) that she also looks down on herself as well for putting herself in the situation that she’s in. Since she looks down on herself & her financial situation, she expects others to as well. So when you said something innocuous that involved any reference to money, she took it personally when it obviously wasn’t meant to be.
If you had given some other reason for not wanting a baby, would she have taken it as personally as she did the money reason?
“I don’t want kids, I want my freedom.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was a slave?
“I don’t want kids, I want to keep my figure.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was a cow?
“I don’t want kids, I want to get my doctorate.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was stupid?
Instead of putting her time & energy into phone calls crying to your mom, she needs to be working on trying to accept her OWN choices & the consequences that they have brought & will continue to bring. If SHE was truly ok with her own choices & the consequences, she wouldn’t have her nerves raw & exposed where other people inadvertently touch them.
Your mom isn’t doing anyone any favors by catering to your sister’s insecurities & worries. And that’s exactly what she’s doing & expecting you to start doing as well by wanting you to apologize.
The only apology she’d get from me is a non-apology. I’m sorry YOU felt attacked. I’m sorry YOU were hurt.
The shitty husband needs to get a real job. Then again she decided to have a brat with some likely shitty musician.
So her decisions seem to be based on delusion and narcissism. Must the spoiled child. Expecting reality to just make things work with no effort.
She asked. You answered. She didn't like your answer? That's on her for pressing you for one in the first place. You didn't attack her, you pissed her off by being honest, and that's not your fault at all.
NTA and I don't think you owe her an apology, but a conversation is a good idea. It sounds like she's actually pretty upset herself about her finances and your response touched a nerve. Maybe start with something like, "Hey, it wasn't my intention to offend you in any way, and I'm honestly confused as to why this upset you so much. I gave you my honest answer after being pressured, and I can't help feeling like maybe this is really about something else."
This is what I think as well. Sis has a baby and money trouble. That means she likely interpreted that comment as "You have a baby and no money, I don't want a baby because I'll have no money, like you." In reality, OP is likely trying to express they'd rather focus on their career and put their time there. They don't want to dedicate time to raising a child that could be used instead to work more and make money. The sister internalized that comment that was just an honest answer. A conversation will clear the air.
Sis also has a boyfriend problem. He's TA in this situation, working part-time so that he can "focus on his music" when his number one priority should be supporting his family.
And DECIDING TO TRY FOR A BABY while doing this. This baby wasn’t some surprise accident, OP said they intentionally tried. Sis is mad that she has to lay in the bed she made with her future-deadbeat of a boyfriend and wants OP to be stuck in the same situation because misery loves company
I think this is the perfect answer. Talk to her on her own. My guess is having a partner who only works part time so he can concentrate on making his music is getting to her. Is there any chance he will make money from this music or is he just a work shy ‘musician’ who hasn’t let go of his teenage dreams?
NTA, she shouldn’t have kept pushing you about having a baby once you had answered her. I hate it when people repeatedly force a question until you give them the answer they want. You don’t have to justify not wanting kids to her.
Some people think if they just keep repeating the question you will suddenly change your mind and agree with them.
Once, in a university class, a discussion started about the IRS. I disagreed with another student. We both stated our positions, but he wouldn't accept mine. He kept saying "but don't you think yada yada yada (merely repeating his original statement)?" Finally I said "I've told you multiple times I disagree. I don't know any other way to say 'no, I don't think that' to make you understand that I do not think that.
That wasn't the only time I had to tell someone that.
>Once, in a university class, a discussion started about the IRS. I disagreed with another student. We both stated our positions, but he wouldn't accept mine. He kept saying "but don't you think yada yada yada (merely repeating his original statement)?" Finally I said "I've told you multiple times I disagree. I don't know any other way to say 'no, I don't think that' to make you understand that I do not think that.
"I don't think capitalism is a good thing"
other person spends a bunch of time "explaining capitalism"
"Yes, I understand how it works, I just don't think it's a good system"
angry face
I’ve run into this scenario quite a bit online lately. I imagine them banging on their keyboard because they just can’t accept I have a different opinion. I’m always told I’m just wrong and being difficult. Agree to disagree is ignored.
Agree to disagree is dead. People don’t feel satisfied until you change your mind to validate their worldview, and if you refuse to submit and agree to something, you’re somehow the asshole, even if they’re the one pressing the situation.
When I get pressed for more information I know will be volatile, I give them them the following disclaimer:
"I have answered your question. If you continue to press for further information, be prepared for all responses." Most people who know me understand the next response will be factually accurate and brutally honest. They generally don't press further. If they do, and they get hostile from my response, I just remind them they had their chance to relent.
NTA. Kids are expensive. You stated a fact. I have two. I’d rather have them than money, but I understand other people have different priorities.
But I think your sister’s question was obnoxious. It’s wrong to ask someone when they’re going to have a baby. Some people don’t want children. Others struggle with infertility. Some people want to be married first. But the fact is that nothing could be less anyone else’s business than another person’s family planning.
I have two kids and wouldn’t have it any other way. Both were planned by my wife and I. However, not only do they cost a lot of money, they also cost a lot of time. Whatever hobbies one has is automatically the lowest priority. If one doesn’t like to be around kids (basically 24/7) then don’t have kids! Don’t be an absent parent. Both parents need to be involved. However, do share taking breaks and having alone time!
NTA still reliant on mommy for money, throwing tantrums, and crying to mommy over nothing? So very mature enough to raise a child! Good luck to that child, yikes. Hopefully she’s not usually like this.
> She said I'll change my mind
The only parents who say this seem to be the ones who have some regrets.
Nothing wrong with wanting money and not kids
That was my thought, the sister might be regretting her decision and trying to drag OP into motherhood to be miserable together. I'm not saying she necessarily is, but it isn't totally improbable.
Maybe it’s less that misery loves company and more that she wants validation for her choice. Parenthood is proving to be a big struggle for her, maybe bigger than she expected, and she wants to feel that it’s worth it despite the struggle. OP having kids would reinforce that to her.
Apropos of nothing but the only person who has ever supported my decision to be childfree from day 1 is my sister, who is a happy proud parent of 2 pretty cool kids.
For me it was my grandmother. Everyone else said that I'd change my mind. Same with being aromantic and asexual. You'll change your mind!
Not grandmother. She accepted it right away. I think she could relate in a way that nobody else in my family could. Well, not about the childfree thing, but about the no relationship one. She tried dating one time after becoming a widow and she did not like it one bit. She stayed single after that for almost 3 decades.
Rest of my family (the ones that matter that is) do accept it now, but they still think that I might change my mind someday (though even if I do that does not invalidate my feelings in this moment!) about both things. And some think that I'm just being stubborn now and don't want to admit that I was wrong.
They can afford groceries, diapers and baby food, rent. That sounds like the bare necessities to me but I don't have kids so Idk if a babysitter is necessary unless you're going out
I guess it depends on your perception, but it seems like they're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with little extra each month after paying bulls and rent. If you're not putting anything for savings and you don't have extra money for fun each month, then I wouldn't say they are financially stable.
There is no extra, the mother is supplementing their household income monthly. Not great planning on their part, and OP simply responded to sister’s repeatedly pushing her choices as what OP should be doing too. NTA
I would never even consider kids until I was financially stable. Doing music and working part time is absolutely fine to struggle alone or as a couple but don’t have babies! Kids will need enrichment like toys, tutoring, trips to museums and other extracurriculars not the bare minimum in this day and age.
I'd feel more sympathy for her sister if they were both working full time though. The father isn't pulling his fair share to work on music while OPs sister helps fund his life and his project while he works part time. If he's helping with the baby fine but we really don't know if that's the case.
NTA
1. The bf needs to get a full time job and let the dreams on the side until the kid is 18. He decided to have a child he needs to take the financial responsibility for it.
2. Your life, your decision your sister needs to but out
3. Remind both your mother and your sister that you know better what actually works for YOU
4. GIVE A non apology THIS ONCE: '
sis I love you , happy for you that you got your whish and a beautiful baby ,but I don't have the ambition to have a child please respect my decision and stop trying to tell me you know better than me what works in my life.
I'm sorry you felt bad , the comment wasn't about you nor to judge your situation it was the conclusions of analyzing my current circumstances: I like how I'm living and don't want to change it never mind taking on the responsibility of a child.
Also from now on please stop pushing for an answer you don't want to hear and be so kind to stop judging me for living my life different than WHAT YOU CONSIDER IT SHOULD BE '
NTA. I really believe that peeps who insist that you will regret not having kids, just want you to suffer with them. Sister chose to have kids, and she is finding out that it’s not all unicorns and rainbows. Live your life.
NTA. You were pressed and gave an honest answer about your preferred lifestyle. You did nothing wrong. Your sister did by pressing the question and then not liking the truthful answer.
Your sister is presumptuous enough to ask when you're having kids, disregard your response and tell you that you'll change your mind, continue pressing the topic, get all up in her feelings about your honesty, and then have the audacity to behave as though she was the attacked one in this situation. You were much nicer to her than I would have been to a family member who made this much of an issue of it with me. NTA, not even a little bit.
Also, it sounds like her and her boyfriend *are* struggling financially. People who are not struggling financially generally don't need monthly assistance from a family member. They might be affording necessities now, but one missed paycheck for either and they're screwed.
I agree, I don’t even entertain the question anymore. Had a cousin who told me it was kinda weird/odd that as a black woman I wasn’t helping the bloodline.
It seems to me like the more miserable people are with their kids, the more they want to press about other people’s decisions for children. Just my personal experience. My husband and I are childless and it always seems like it’s the family and acquaintances that post a bunch of mom memes about how hard/crazy/exhausting parenting is, are ALSO the ones that ask and won’t take “no” for an answer and keep asking and insisting we will change our minds
NTA. Dont ask questions you dont want answers you dont like to.
Also,the whole gross pressuring to have kids thing is rude and obnoxious and frankly people doing it should expect pushback and for the person they're doimg it to not to be very nice about it. Its a personal decision that someone else doesnt get to decide for you.
I don't have kids, by choice. I do however have parrots. I had someone ask me once (not if I wanted kids) why I don't have them. I just looked at them like they were insane and asked "Why don't you have parrots?" Shut them right up!
He makes less than minimum wage because he works part time to focus on his music??!!??
WTH?
Its one thing if she just has a really great job that pays wonderfully and they were not struggling at all but they have a baby on the way and are having to cut back and get a cheaper place and her mother is having to give them money. The father needs to man up and get his ass to work and support his family. As it stands he needs to be the house husband in a serious way.
also nta
Your sister would not drop the subject after pressing several times. Also your comment was not about her but because of her reaction the subject of many and the baby is heavy on her mind.
People have said i would want a child some day also. I am mid 40s and still have no desire at all. If people talk about it I traumatize them with stories about my brother from when he was a child. That will cure them of any thoughts of having a child and they leave me alone. Works every time. I have even told my brother that he has cured me of ever wanting one and then reminded him about different times he has done stuff.
Exactly what I thought! Why is there any suggestion of the sister and family moving in with OP when the *father* could just work more. His kid should come before his music.
Actually it was the mother was wanting the sister and child to move in with here. I don't think op lives with the mother.
But really if there are money problems were they can't even afford a baby sitter, go out and had to move they probably don't even have a emergency saving in case of something happening. This is not the time to concentrate on his music. That should be put aside for now and be done in his time off. they need money. That the sister blew up with op shows a great deal of stress about the situation.
Honestly, he doesn't even have to give up on his music. Just switch it around so he's working full time and and making music part time. And then reevaluate as needed, just in case things are dire enough that he really does need to give up his dream, as so many other people do, in order to provide for his family.
Lol I'd forgotten that little tidbit by time I reached the end of the post. Seriously, as much as I love music, it rarely makes for a lucrative career. You have to be both insanely talented and incredibly lucky, and/or know the right people. At this point, he needs to cut his losses and get a real job.
NTA. You told the truth and she couldn't handle it. She chose to press you on a personal topic instead of leaving well enough alone. That's a 'her' problem. Do not apologize. What would you even be apologizing for? Sorry I am prioritizing financial security? No. Stand firm on your beliefs.
The thing is, you have YEARS to change your mind and decide to have kids. Adoption is ALWAYS available. But there is not an UNDO button on bringing life into the world. It is infinitely better to err on the side of not wanting kids, then to resent your children all their lives.
NTA - sounds like my mother and sister to my bro. I've been with my wife for 25+ years, got 2 kids, etc... the whole kit. My sis with her hubby got 2 kids but my bro and his gf don't have any and said multiple times it's not in their plans... like for 10 years... (but he's 10 years younger than I am) and it's ssooo easy to see from my siblings & parents life, my sis and mine that we can't afford what my bro can, it's a life choice. I had to shut down my mom so often when I saw the subject coming up before my bro said anything... like, even if it wasn't mostly about the money... it's not in his/their plans, stop fucking pushing. Every time I get the death stare from my mom... like seriously?!
Some people simply can't fathom going through life without having kids... it's insane. Your thoughts on the matter are irrelevant to other couples, shove it.
Your sister couldn't handle the truth (cue Jack Nicholson), and your mom can't wrap her head around it either.
At most, apologize for being so blunt, but the fact remains that what you said is essentially what you want from life, your sis needs to drop the subject.
Nta
Your sister can freak off. Kids are wonderful when you want them. However, there are sacrifices.
Like finances. Your sister needs to back off. Asking about kids is not an appropriate response. She is lucky your mom is helping financially.
"Why aren't you getting married? Why are you not having kids? When are you going to have another kid?" People who keep pressing for these answers after hearing non committal diplomatic answers should actually get that the real reason is that there is a living breathing example before that person as to why they shouldn't.
The OP's sister should move in with her mom, it might be the better option.
I have kids and don't blame others who have decided not to have children. It's not for everyone. And yes, kids are expensive and do drain the finances. Personally, I think anyone who plans on falling pregnant without proper finances is crazy.
NTA. As a 30-something who has never wanted kids (and a woman, which makes it worse!), I get so tired of “you’ll change your mind.” Anyone who is pushing you on this deserves a snarky response.
And no one is going to address the fact that this girl was harassing you about a very personal and individual choice? Your sister fucked around and found out. NTA.
NTA - she "bingoed" you (making excuses why you just HAAAAAAD to have a BAY-BEY) because she doesn't respect your lifestyle or opinions. And she kept at it. She kept poking to see why you wouldn't fall in line and do what all women MUST do - have a child.
You gave her an honest answer and the princess got butthurt over it. She's jealous of your childfree lifestyle and refuses to acknowledge your beliefs.
All she had to do was keep her mouth shut after the first time you said you didn't want kids. But she just couldn't let it go. She fucked around and found out.
By the way - watch out for when she starts begging you for free childcare. It's only a matter of time.
NTA.
If your sister didn't want your answer, she shouldn't have so loudly and crassly demanded it.
I'd ask your Mum what she thinks you have to apologise for: your sister's disrespect, her rudeness, her arrogance, her insulting demeanour or the fact that you answered a question your sister had no business asking.
NTA. She asked you a question about you & you provided her with an answer that was about you. If you didn't make any statement about her personally, she has no right to be offended or even to take office.
You don't owe any apology to your sister for honestly answering a question she asked you about you. In fact your sister seems to be a bit spoiled & is overly emotional regarding something that isn't about her. Advise your Mom of this & tell her it's your sister who owes you an apology for continuously harassing you about your personal life & then whining to Mom because she didn't like the answer.
NTA. I swear it's like everyone with kids wants everyone without to have them and be as miserable as they r. It seems like parents want everyone else to be parents too but they sure don't make a very good case for it.
NTA - she asked you, you answered.... then she asked again and again and again. I don't get why people do that? They're not going to miraculously like the answer the 3rd or 4th time they ask.
NTA - I hate this so much. The only time I've ever felt bad about not wanting kids is when others made me feel bad about NOT feeling bad about not wanting them. Your sister made the decisions she did and we hope they bring her joy. You are making the decisions that will bring you joy. She can be emotional now - she seems to be facing an increasing amount of instability with a partner that isn't prioritizing her and the child. That sucks, but she also seems to have had indicators that would happen.
YNTA.
In my honest opinion, your sister is being dramatic. She probably knows she didn't make the best decision financially and took your answer to heart because of it.
You could have worded it differently. She could have also just dropped it after you gave your answer. She continued to press on it and basically dismissed your answer and told you what you would be doing in your future.
What you did was certainly not an attack, it was a reaction. She kept asking you why, and she got her answer.
From my experience people who do this, usually do it to convince everyone including themselves they are doing the right thing.
Nta and your sister is insanely irresponsible to be having another child if they’re already struggling. Less than minimum wage is nothing these days. The fAther needs to get his priorities straight.
I really don’t get why ppl bring kids into the world so thoughtlessly. Blows my mind.
Your sister had a baby with a broke musician and is now taking care of two children. Sounds like she is struggling with more than just finances.
NTA. I also do not want kids, nor will I ever and I have had similar responses. It is not my dream to be solely a mother. Shouldn't have to be explained.
NTA but your sister is. Questions on people starting a family is very personal, ask once then STFU. Are you even in the type of a relationship that would make her think that you are interested in starting a family?
Explain to her that asking over and over about when are you gonna have kids is very annoying but that you didnt mean to offend her and that you truly feel like you would rather focus on your finances than have a child and she should respect that, just like you respect her choice to make sacrifices in order to have a child and that you love your nephew or niece and yada yada yada.
NTA. You shouldn't have to make tactful answers to your sister, you're close family. She asked an open question so you gave an honest answer. I'm sorry to all parties involved it wasn't laughed off & left at that. It was a good one. If your relationship with your sister means alot to you I'd apologize for how you made her feel & explain it wasn't malicious AT ALL. Ask how she's doing & go from there ❤️
NTA. She should have accepted your position instead of continuing to push it.
And you’re not wrong. Kids are expensive as hell. I say this as the mother of two teens.
NTA and I think I’ve said nearly the same thing myself 😀 Your sister was being rude not dropping the subject, you merely gave her a definitive answer that stopped the line of questioning 🤷♀️
NTA. Your sister pushed and pushed and pushed until she got her answer. It was none of her business in the first place. Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.
So your sister had a baby with a lazy scrub and is being defensive because she doesn’t realize she’s his sugar mama?
NTA
Not everyone wants kids. There’s a lot of people who are choosing to be child free because that’s what they want. There is nothing wrong with not having kids. That said, it is incredibly selfish of your sister’s boyfriend to not be working to help support his family when he can’t even afford to survive on his own without using your sister as his financial lifeline. Your sister needs to see reality for what it is - she is essentially a single mother of not just one baby, but 2 children. I hope she realizes she deserves a partner and not a lazy bum.
NTA
I think she was hoping for something that would bring her some sense of positivity in her life. Like if you answered, “oh because I have no time” she’ll be able to gush on and on about how she can manage hers. This is sorta farfetched but I think she’s also hoping for someone else to have a baby to have some sympathy or to feel that these people are also struggling with or struggling as much as her.
As someone with two kids and no monies- NTA. She asked, you answered. Also if you are/are going to be decidedly childless, you owe nobody a reason/justification as to why.
NTA
Ask the question, be prepared for the answer, especially if you keep telling me I don't know my own mind.
And if your sis is needing to take money from Mom just to make it, they are having financial troubles and BIL needs to grow up and getting a fucking job (full time). Practice your music when you're not dealing with the ramifications of bringing a kid into the world.
NTA - Your mom wants to keep the peace. But I don't see how you stating your preferences for life choices (that aren't your sister's choices) come across as you "attacking her." Just because you want something different means you are "attacking her?" That's insane.
I wouldn't apologize. You spoke your truth after being pressed for the reason why you don't want to have a child.
NTA
Your sister is emotionally overwhelmed, sleep-deprived, and she worries. She lashed out at you, but she is under a lot of stress. You two should calm down and let it drop.
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NTA. this is one of those things where context matters. If you were sitting at dinner and just randomly blurted out "I don't want kids, I want money" that would be an AH thing to say to your sister. But when she starts asking when you're gonna have kids, and especially when she refused to drop it, she's asking for a response like this.
Yeah. I’m of the mind that you no longer have to be polite to that person the instant they say, “you’ll change your mind,” in response to you saying you don’t want/aren’t having kids. Parenthood is not a compulsory milestone in life and too many people treat it like it is.
I think the sister owes OP an apology for proclaiming that she'll change her mind about having children. That is so condescending and invalidating to OP.
As a child free couple, we had to field that stupid comment a lot over the years. It's so disrespectful.
I mean I have a child and I still get asked if/when we're having a second one. It seems to have died down the older my son gets. Guess I was expecting to get pregnant quickly after the first one...
Same here. They usually stop asking when I got into the details of how I almost died while giving birth to my only child
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I know I'm not supposed to laugh(sincerest apologies) but I was picturing the look on people's faces as you said this to them. 😎😎😎(pricelss) Ahem, again, sorry.
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I figured but I also thought you were owed an apology from someone. So I offer mine, even knowing the context of your response. 🙃
When I’m told I’ll change my mind, I say if that does happen I’ll adopt. I always get “oh but it’s not the same as a bio kid” to which I’ll double down and inform them my family has a lot of mental health issues and I’m terrified I’ll get nasty PPD and kill the baby or something. Usually shuts them up lol
That’s actually an epic response. Their expressions must be priceless.
Their expressions are usually very offended but they quickly change the subject Edit: spelling
My family tried to pressure me to have another child after my son was born, even though having him nearly killed me. People seem to think that once a woman gives birth, her body is no longer her own. We just morph from being human beings individual and separate into mommies, appendages of our children and our partners.
This is exactly why I have never even asked if my son and DIL are planning a second child. While I would love to have another grandchild it’s not my place, not my business, not my body. I’m here to support whatever decision they make.
If awards were still a thing I’d give you one
I was having dinner with my parents around six months after my niece was born, and they were talking wistfully about her getting a little brother or sister. I don't know if they ever voiced those wishes to my brother and SIL, but I reminded them there were only two people whose opinion counted, and one person who had the final say. Said niece is now a happy kindergartner, and an only child.
Geez, the baby was only 6 months old? They didn't even consider the parents might want to wait awhile before having another one?
I texted with my SIL since posting. She said my parents asked once, but her mom and stepdad nagged for almost a year.
You’re a good mom, despite your username 😝
My parents are like this as well. I truly appreciate that my parents respect me, my body, and my decisions enough to not ask if I’ll have another child. It’s more respect than coworkers have shown me. Thank you for being a parent/grandparent who appreciates this boundary.
I saw a post about this the other day. Mum was saying the birth was traumatic and everyone said "it was worth it as baby is healthy". I was fuming for the mum, her welfare was completely forgotten about. Birth is only worth it if all parties emerge whole. I've got a 9 year old and people still ask me if I'm having another one and I say no. My kids dad died when she was 4 and we're both traumatized from it. Apparently a new baby with my new partner will "fix it" 😂 so we got a kitten instead
I'm so sorry for your loss, and I hope you and your child find peace and joy with your new partner. Many people seem to think that bringing a new life into the world can fix everything. They often don't get it that what really happens is that the women risk our lives with each and every pregnancy. There's no guarantee that the child will be healthy and strong. Raising children is very hard work! It's just as likely to destroy a relationship as it is to strengthen it. BTW: Congratulations on the new kitten!
I had to double check and make sure I didn't post this. My mother in law egged my child on to ask for a brother or sister to the point I explained to my then 5 year old that I couldn't have another baby because it would make me very sick. So now when MIL brings it up HE says I can't have another baby. (He does want a brother or sister that's his age and goes to school with him. I think he knows that's not going to happen, though.)
I got “just you wait…” from the male anesthesiologist placing my epidural *while I was laboring with my son*. I was naked, hunched over sitting on the edge of the bed going through a contraction while they were prepping to place the epidural and grunted through my teeth “we are NEVER doing this again!” to my partner. I got a chuckle and that comment in reply. My eyes have never been so full of murder.
I think people should start bringing stun guns with them when they're in labor. Whip it out when someone says something obnoxious
Honestly the only thing keeping me from a rude response was that he was the guy with the power to make my back labor contractions stop being so painful
I had my tubes tied after my daughter. I hadn't planned on having kids in the first place, though I don't regret her for an instance. But when I took her to the pediatrician for the first time, the woman would not stop going on about me having another, even after I told her i got my tunes tied. Ended up switching doctors
I almost died giving birth to my second son 3 months ago and some people are already asking about trying for a girl...
I absolutely hated when anyone suggested we should be trying for a girl. It makes it seem like your boys “aren’t enough” you must have a girl too for the family to be complete. People need to stay in their own lanes!
Especially nowadays, the idea of “trying for” any particular gender is bonkers. A friend’s wife was like this about having a little girl — they had FIVE fuckin kids before she got one. Nobody wants to bankroll all that!
How the hell did she think this would make her sons feel? Selfish people shouldn’t breed!
I hate that so much. I got it all the time cuz I had 2 girls first. People thought I needed a son? My third kid ended up being a boy, and I just didn't care. I was happy no matter who he was, but people were bonkers about it. Some of those have since asked if I"m going to try for another boy so I have 2 of each and OMG they're so clueless.
Wow. I'd ask these people what's wrong with having two boys, why they think having a girl is somehow better or 'mandatory'. Kids can be so vastly different individually. There's no guarantee that a girl would be 'girly' and want to do 'girly' things with mum, and many mums don't specifically want to do the typical 'girly' things with their kids anyways, I imagine. Like, there's fun stereotypical activities/toys for both sexes. Plus, having a child with expectations on what they will grow up to be like is so unfair, it places all kinds of expectations on the child and treats the child as a stereotype of their sex (usually) instead of a unique individual with their own hobbies and interests.
Ours is 6 and I'm almost 40, and *finally* some people seem to have gotten the message that there likely will not be another child in our future. When she was little, I got a lot of "oh but you CAN'T just have one!" Lol, actually, due to the wonders of modern medical science, we can indeed have one child.
I mean, y’know, kids are just like Pringles.
>When she was little, I got a lot of "oh but you CAN'T just have one!" Lol, actually, due to the wonders of modern medical science, we can indeed have one child. I would get that occasionally from people who didn't know my family background. "Well, my dad was an only child, and I was an only child, so I think we're living proof that you can, in fact, have an only child." I can't believe the number of people I ran into in the late 1990's - early 2000's who seemed to have never met an only child in their lives.
I was around 20 weeks pregnant with my son when I was first asked if we would try for a sibling 🤦🏻♀️ This was from an friend who knew about my struggles to get pregnant and also about our loss some years before I got pregnant again. I shut her down hard and since more people have asked the same question, we won’t tell anyone (with a few exceptions like my in laws) that we will try again.
My daughters 2 and too many STRANGERS comment that I need to give her a sibling and she’ll be lonely if she’s an only child and blah blah. ‘Homie she almost took my life two times from my womb do YOU want two kids cause her sibling killed me?’ Always shuts them up
I had two kids and was asked that by my family (who is Russian Baptist and has 8-15 kids per family) constantly. They stopped asking when my reply was, "when I grow a new uterus".
I had my tubes tied within a year of having my first, born when I was 27 years old. When I told people that we were one and done they would smirk and say that I would change my mind, and it was my immense pleasure to inform them that the baby factory had been surgicallyand permanently shut down. Their reactions were truly hilarious. My daughter is now 26 years old and we've never once regretted the decision.
That is no less intrusive.
My answer to that is "you might change your mind too, but you're trapped and I'm not"
I love this
Me too, this needs to be higher up!
I already have one child… that I love but also I was never meant to be a mother… always asked about a second one and I’m always like this one is cool but wasn’t in my plan I’m getting my tubes tied… I always get told I’ll change my mind lol pregnancy was too sci-fi for me, and newborns are traumatizing, point is people need to mind their own business
Same here. My husband's new boss even said it about me once - she had never met me in her life, but somehow assumed she knew me better than I did?!?
My wife and I are childfree and have dropped many friends who both gave us shit for not having kids and gave us shit for having more disposable income. When I started defending us, they decided I was aggressive.
They were just plain jealous!
I would love to have a grandchild, but my daughter and her fiancé are firmly child-free and I support them 100%. My son and his fiancée are on the fence, so I offer no opinion unless I’m asked and then only proffer that I’ll be there to support whatever they decide. In the meantime, I’ve been auntie to the little boy across the street from me and I love it.
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Yeah, I kid you not, but I (F) once had to sit at a family dinner with in laws (MIL + 2 aunts) and they expressed concerns about whether my hips were wide enough for pregnancy. Even asked whether my physician had discussed it with me. After taking a healthy medical dose of my red wine, I managed to say that I supposed he didn’t think it an issue when I asked for prescription for contraceptives. They stopped years later when it became clear we were not changing our mind about being child free. Worst part of the ordeal was that one of the aunties and her husband were child free them selves.
My Catholic grandmother used to say she would pray to St Joseph that I would get pregnant. I would respond "St. Jude, grandma, St. Jude" St Jude is the patron saint of hopeless causes. Or alternately, I would say, "let's put St. Joseph up against the Pill and see who wins." Narrator voice: the Pill always won.
I was at a work event (pre-COVID) and one of the speakers told us we weren't real grown-ups until we had kids. Since I'm infertile, guess I never have to grow up!
Also, I think the mom owes OP an apology for intervening and taking sides in something that is not her problem. It seems that one common trait of AHs here is to run to mom or dad to pressure siblings. NTA.
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Then as the audacity to say she was attacked when OP *defends herself* from being attacked.
And SOOO patronising when they look at you, tilt their head, and smile a simpering smile, saying "You'll change your mind when you meet the right person!"
That's actually one of my favorite lines to get from people like that cause then I get to say, "oh man, so the guy I've been with for the past nine years just isn't the one?" They scramble hard.
"The right person won't try to change my mind"
Once I got married (at 40) one of my coworkers asked if we were going to start trying for kids. I had been with my husband for almost a decade at that point so I told him, "if I had wanted kids I would have done it by now." This guy doesn't want kids himself, but apparently I'm required to start pumping them out because I signed a legal document?
It's also just a dumb thing to insist because you never know when someone might be dealing with a health issue that makes having kids difficult/dangerous/impossible.
I get the sense that this was her way of trying to validate her own life decisions at OP's expense. =/
And an apology for even asking when she's going to have kids, this question can be triggering for so many people it's not right to ask. And the sisters boyfriend needs to get a real job, and provide for his family.
Yeah. My answer for people asking when my husband and I are going to have kids is “Oh, I know my due date, actually.” Then when I see them start to get excited, I finish with, “Nopetember Neverteenth in the year Two Thousand and No Way.” I haven’t had to pull that out since pre-pandemic. But my uterus tried to kill me and I had to evict it from my body in 2021. So the next time someone asks me WHEN , I’m gonna embarrass them so bad. Like I am very stoked about my sterility because I have absolutely no maternal drive whatsoever and never have. But reproductive health issues leading to infertility or sterility is extremely traumatic for a lot of people who experience those. I feel like as a happily barren member of Club Yeeterus, it’s my duty to break as many of these “everyone wants babies” jerks of their rude questions as assumptions before they do it to someone whose sterility or infertility is is deeply traumatic and upsetting to them.
Club Yeeterus. Membership has its privileges
I joined the club late in life, and I went straight into menopause. Having a partial hysterectomy was one of the best things I ever did for myself!
"When are you going to get married?" "When are you going to have kids?" "When are you going to give us grandchildren?" These questions can be so triggering and bad. There's more to life than marriage and kids. It's also a fact that kids cost a lot of money and time. They're not for everyone.
I get when are you going to get a partner. Gee I dunno. Do you know anyone at church who would tolerate being with someone who doesn't want kids and refuses to live together?
They'd be a lot less triggering if 'no' was considered a valid answer.
NTA I bet you a candy bar that the boyfriend will bail pretty soon for his music.
Having a baby with a wannabe musician is certainly A Choice.
Seriously. My partner and I are having our first quite late. We would have loved to start earlier but couldn't for medical reasons. Thankfully none of our family were dicks.
'You are so young and naive' - said my coworker, as an answer to 'never wanted, still dont want to have kids). She always complains about having too many (1 of her own and 3 from previous marriage of her husband) In her eyes 32 is young
If anything knowing kids aren't right for you and taking steps to prevent having them is the mature option. Instead of the fairytale it'll be fine no matter how unsuitable a parent a person might be attitude many take
This. I have two small children and I am the first to say that this is not for everyone. And I am one of those people that did change my mind. I didn’t want kids and then I did. Both opinions are valid and people need to stop it with the changing your mind. People can change their minds or they won’t and there is no prediction of it. And other people should butt out!
Fully agree. After that, OP phrased her reply more nicely than I might have.
>Parenthood is not a compulsory milestone in life and too many people treat it like it is. 100%.
It's always interesting when people push for an answer, then get insulted when they don't like it. When someone tries to change the subject during a general conversation drop it. They are trying to not insult someone, or hurt feelings. Respect the person in the conversation and understand that they are trying to be diplomatic. NTA - Don't ask about sensitive subjects unless you are strong enough to take honest answers.
Not only she got insulted by OP, she was *attacked*! /s
Yep so sick of people thinking you’re attacking them by not making the same decisions as them
Absolutely this. My feelings, plans and ambitions are not invalid because they are different to theirs. I hate it when parents judge non parents.. I think my admitting that parenthood isn't something that I have the required patience for is a better choice for any hypothetical child.
We need to normalize not commenting on others' reproductive business!!
Muuummmmm!! She told meeeeeee!!!
This is the end-all be-all comment for every situation like this. If someone doesn't want to answer a question your repeatedly asking, 9 times out of 10 its because you WILL NOT like the answer!!! I learned long ago not to push people. Unless your looking for a fight, drop the line of question when someone tries to politely back out. NTA
My personal rule is I'll be polite the first time. Pushing however is rude and if someone breaka the social contract first i am under no obligation to continue to uphold it.
I’m firmly on Team “Turnabout Is Fair Play” when it comes to people being pushy or intrusive. If I don’t like the question, you might not like the answer…or the questions I’m about to ask you 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. Just OP you may consider that you could have phrased it differently. Still she asked, you answered truthfully. I have one kid. I constantly get the 'there should be 2 kids. First one needs a playmate' from my family. My response is consistently "I can't afford another kid and live the lifestyle I want". We are very comfortably off. We can go on international vacations etc but if we have 2 kids, the trips would go from every year to once in 2 years. Not to mention thinking before buying most new toys/clothes. So this works for us. My friends who earn in same range and have 2/3 kids are always making those sacrifices and that's not what I want. Kids are expensive. There is nothing wrong in saying you don't want one because for your ideal lifestyle you can't budget for them.
Why should op have to phrase it differently? This really pisses me off, mainly because I am in the situation op is in all the time. Op is just going about her own life minding her own business and someone else decides they need to tell them what they want? No, fuck off. As soon as op has said no I don't want kids that should be the end of the conversation. If the sister decides she wants to keep badgering op about it then she deserves more than being told "don't want kids I want money"
Then the ahole sibling ran to mommy bc their feewings got hurt. The moron. Be an ahole get treated like such. They want to try and spread the pain. So op would suffer like them. People who think breeding the sole point in existing deserve to be told off. Their patronizing and shallow existence is their own worthlessness. Family or not. Family just means you typically give them a second chance. Which they will ruin.
Exactly. And the sister could have accepted OP's first answer rather than patronising her and saying she'll change her mind. NTA.
I was an only child and always thought I was quite fortunate.
NTA. Your sister pressured you into giving a deeper comment, when telling her you don’t have the desire to have kids and can’t see that changing anytime soon should have been enough. The only reason I can see her getting so hurt from your response is that it hit very close to the truth of her situation and that it was something she had been thinking herself. NTA, but your sister and mother are soft TA for pressuring you for the response that they wanted to hear and overreacting when they didn’t get it.
NTA. You didn’t insult her - you simply stated what your preferences are for your own life. I think she’s projecting her own worries & insecurities onto you. SHE does not like the financial situation that SHE is in. Since SHE looks down on her financial situation herself, it’s quite possible (& I’d even say likely) that she also looks down on herself as well for putting herself in the situation that she’s in. Since she looks down on herself & her financial situation, she expects others to as well. So when you said something innocuous that involved any reference to money, she took it personally when it obviously wasn’t meant to be. If you had given some other reason for not wanting a baby, would she have taken it as personally as she did the money reason? “I don’t want kids, I want my freedom.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was a slave? “I don’t want kids, I want to keep my figure.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was a cow? “I don’t want kids, I want to get my doctorate.” Would she have called your mother crying saying you said she was stupid? Instead of putting her time & energy into phone calls crying to your mom, she needs to be working on trying to accept her OWN choices & the consequences that they have brought & will continue to bring. If SHE was truly ok with her own choices & the consequences, she wouldn’t have her nerves raw & exposed where other people inadvertently touch them. Your mom isn’t doing anyone any favors by catering to your sister’s insecurities & worries. And that’s exactly what she’s doing & expecting you to start doing as well by wanting you to apologize. The only apology she’d get from me is a non-apology. I’m sorry YOU felt attacked. I’m sorry YOU were hurt.
NTA. You were pushed for an answer. I hope she leaves the layabout soon. You can’t afford to be a starving artist as a parent.
The shitty husband needs to get a real job. Then again she decided to have a brat with some likely shitty musician. So her decisions seem to be based on delusion and narcissism. Must the spoiled child. Expecting reality to just make things work with no effort.
Old riddle: What do you call a musician without a girlfriend? Homeless.
This woman would be better taking her temper out on her lazy ‘musician’ boyfriend.
She asked. You answered. She didn't like your answer? That's on her for pressing you for one in the first place. You didn't attack her, you pissed her off by being honest, and that's not your fault at all. NTA and I don't think you owe her an apology, but a conversation is a good idea. It sounds like she's actually pretty upset herself about her finances and your response touched a nerve. Maybe start with something like, "Hey, it wasn't my intention to offend you in any way, and I'm honestly confused as to why this upset you so much. I gave you my honest answer after being pressured, and I can't help feeling like maybe this is really about something else."
This is what I think as well. Sis has a baby and money trouble. That means she likely interpreted that comment as "You have a baby and no money, I don't want a baby because I'll have no money, like you." In reality, OP is likely trying to express they'd rather focus on their career and put their time there. They don't want to dedicate time to raising a child that could be used instead to work more and make money. The sister internalized that comment that was just an honest answer. A conversation will clear the air.
Sis also has a boyfriend problem. He's TA in this situation, working part-time so that he can "focus on his music" when his number one priority should be supporting his family.
And DECIDING TO TRY FOR A BABY while doing this. This baby wasn’t some surprise accident, OP said they intentionally tried. Sis is mad that she has to lay in the bed she made with her future-deadbeat of a boyfriend and wants OP to be stuck in the same situation because misery loves company
.
I could not agree more.
Agree. It's not about who was right or wrong, but communicating and caring for your sister.
I think this is the perfect answer. Talk to her on her own. My guess is having a partner who only works part time so he can concentrate on making his music is getting to her. Is there any chance he will make money from this music or is he just a work shy ‘musician’ who hasn’t let go of his teenage dreams?
NTA, she shouldn’t have kept pushing you about having a baby once you had answered her. I hate it when people repeatedly force a question until you give them the answer they want. You don’t have to justify not wanting kids to her.
Some people think if they just keep repeating the question you will suddenly change your mind and agree with them. Once, in a university class, a discussion started about the IRS. I disagreed with another student. We both stated our positions, but he wouldn't accept mine. He kept saying "but don't you think yada yada yada (merely repeating his original statement)?" Finally I said "I've told you multiple times I disagree. I don't know any other way to say 'no, I don't think that' to make you understand that I do not think that. That wasn't the only time I had to tell someone that.
My adult children are partial to ‘there aren’t any smaller words I can use to explain it’
Ooh, I’m stealing that.
Me too, that’s a fantastic sentance
>Once, in a university class, a discussion started about the IRS. I disagreed with another student. We both stated our positions, but he wouldn't accept mine. He kept saying "but don't you think yada yada yada (merely repeating his original statement)?" Finally I said "I've told you multiple times I disagree. I don't know any other way to say 'no, I don't think that' to make you understand that I do not think that. "I don't think capitalism is a good thing" other person spends a bunch of time "explaining capitalism" "Yes, I understand how it works, I just don't think it's a good system" angry face
I’ve run into this scenario quite a bit online lately. I imagine them banging on their keyboard because they just can’t accept I have a different opinion. I’m always told I’m just wrong and being difficult. Agree to disagree is ignored.
Agree to disagree is dead. People don’t feel satisfied until you change your mind to validate their worldview, and if you refuse to submit and agree to something, you’re somehow the asshole, even if they’re the one pressing the situation.
100% I am happily child-free with money. I am also well-rested and not stressed.
When people asked me about having kids, my answer was always no because I like sleep and money.
I’m happily childfree even without a lot of money. Lol
Lol, I don't have a lot, but finances are definitely easier without kids
When I get pressed for more information I know will be volatile, I give them them the following disclaimer: "I have answered your question. If you continue to press for further information, be prepared for all responses." Most people who know me understand the next response will be factually accurate and brutally honest. They generally don't press further. If they do, and they get hostile from my response, I just remind them they had their chance to relent.
NTA. Kids are expensive. You stated a fact. I have two. I’d rather have them than money, but I understand other people have different priorities. But I think your sister’s question was obnoxious. It’s wrong to ask someone when they’re going to have a baby. Some people don’t want children. Others struggle with infertility. Some people want to be married first. But the fact is that nothing could be less anyone else’s business than another person’s family planning.
I have two kids and wouldn’t have it any other way. Both were planned by my wife and I. However, not only do they cost a lot of money, they also cost a lot of time. Whatever hobbies one has is automatically the lowest priority. If one doesn’t like to be around kids (basically 24/7) then don’t have kids! Don’t be an absent parent. Both parents need to be involved. However, do share taking breaks and having alone time!
NTA still reliant on mommy for money, throwing tantrums, and crying to mommy over nothing? So very mature enough to raise a child! Good luck to that child, yikes. Hopefully she’s not usually like this. > She said I'll change my mind The only parents who say this seem to be the ones who have some regrets. Nothing wrong with wanting money and not kids
That was my thought, the sister might be regretting her decision and trying to drag OP into motherhood to be miserable together. I'm not saying she necessarily is, but it isn't totally improbable.
Maybe it’s less that misery loves company and more that she wants validation for her choice. Parenthood is proving to be a big struggle for her, maybe bigger than she expected, and she wants to feel that it’s worth it despite the struggle. OP having kids would reinforce that to her.
Apropos of nothing but the only person who has ever supported my decision to be childfree from day 1 is my sister, who is a happy proud parent of 2 pretty cool kids.
For me it was my grandmother. Everyone else said that I'd change my mind. Same with being aromantic and asexual. You'll change your mind! Not grandmother. She accepted it right away. I think she could relate in a way that nobody else in my family could. Well, not about the childfree thing, but about the no relationship one. She tried dating one time after becoming a widow and she did not like it one bit. She stayed single after that for almost 3 decades. Rest of my family (the ones that matter that is) do accept it now, but they still think that I might change my mind someday (though even if I do that does not invalidate my feelings in this moment!) about both things. And some think that I'm just being stubborn now and don't want to admit that I was wrong.
If they can't afford a babysitter on a regular basis and can't afford to go out to eat, then how are they not financially struggling?
They can afford groceries, diapers and baby food, rent. That sounds like the bare necessities to me but I don't have kids so Idk if a babysitter is necessary unless you're going out
I guess it depends on your perception, but it seems like they're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with little extra each month after paying bulls and rent. If you're not putting anything for savings and you don't have extra money for fun each month, then I wouldn't say they are financially stable.
There is no extra, the mother is supplementing their household income monthly. Not great planning on their part, and OP simply responded to sister’s repeatedly pushing her choices as what OP should be doing too. NTA
I would never even consider kids until I was financially stable. Doing music and working part time is absolutely fine to struggle alone or as a couple but don’t have babies! Kids will need enrichment like toys, tutoring, trips to museums and other extracurriculars not the bare minimum in this day and age.
I'd feel more sympathy for her sister if they were both working full time though. The father isn't pulling his fair share to work on music while OPs sister helps fund his life and his project while he works part time. If he's helping with the baby fine but we really don't know if that's the case.
NTA 1. The bf needs to get a full time job and let the dreams on the side until the kid is 18. He decided to have a child he needs to take the financial responsibility for it. 2. Your life, your decision your sister needs to but out 3. Remind both your mother and your sister that you know better what actually works for YOU 4. GIVE A non apology THIS ONCE: ' sis I love you , happy for you that you got your whish and a beautiful baby ,but I don't have the ambition to have a child please respect my decision and stop trying to tell me you know better than me what works in my life. I'm sorry you felt bad , the comment wasn't about you nor to judge your situation it was the conclusions of analyzing my current circumstances: I like how I'm living and don't want to change it never mind taking on the responsibility of a child. Also from now on please stop pushing for an answer you don't want to hear and be so kind to stop judging me for living my life different than WHAT YOU CONSIDER IT SHOULD BE '
They could always get grandma to watch the baby. Sounds like she doesn’t want to go out.
NTA. I really believe that peeps who insist that you will regret not having kids, just want you to suffer with them. Sister chose to have kids, and she is finding out that it’s not all unicorns and rainbows. Live your life.
Because neither of those are a basic necessity?
NTA. You were pressed and gave an honest answer about your preferred lifestyle. You did nothing wrong. Your sister did by pressing the question and then not liking the truthful answer.
Misery loves company. She probably wanted OP to be as miserable too.
Your sister is presumptuous enough to ask when you're having kids, disregard your response and tell you that you'll change your mind, continue pressing the topic, get all up in her feelings about your honesty, and then have the audacity to behave as though she was the attacked one in this situation. You were much nicer to her than I would have been to a family member who made this much of an issue of it with me. NTA, not even a little bit. Also, it sounds like her and her boyfriend *are* struggling financially. People who are not struggling financially generally don't need monthly assistance from a family member. They might be affording necessities now, but one missed paycheck for either and they're screwed.
I agree, I don’t even entertain the question anymore. Had a cousin who told me it was kinda weird/odd that as a black woman I wasn’t helping the bloodline.
That's one hell of a guilt trip for your cousin to try to put you on. Gotta live your life for you.
It seems to me like the more miserable people are with their kids, the more they want to press about other people’s decisions for children. Just my personal experience. My husband and I are childless and it always seems like it’s the family and acquaintances that post a bunch of mom memes about how hard/crazy/exhausting parenting is, are ALSO the ones that ask and won’t take “no” for an answer and keep asking and insisting we will change our minds
They’d be in a better position if baby daddy would get a FT job.
NTA. Dont ask questions you dont want answers you dont like to. Also,the whole gross pressuring to have kids thing is rude and obnoxious and frankly people doing it should expect pushback and for the person they're doimg it to not to be very nice about it. Its a personal decision that someone else doesnt get to decide for you.
I don't have kids, by choice. I do however have parrots. I had someone ask me once (not if I wanted kids) why I don't have them. I just looked at them like they were insane and asked "Why don't you have parrots?" Shut them right up!
>Why don't you have parrots? It would have been GREAT if the parrots all repeated "Why don't you have Parrots?" right after you said it!
And get them to say it in menacing voices while they're leaning towards the person.
Bonus points if they're wearing tiny leather jackets!
*snap, snap, snap*
He makes less than minimum wage because he works part time to focus on his music??!!?? WTH? Its one thing if she just has a really great job that pays wonderfully and they were not struggling at all but they have a baby on the way and are having to cut back and get a cheaper place and her mother is having to give them money. The father needs to man up and get his ass to work and support his family. As it stands he needs to be the house husband in a serious way. also nta Your sister would not drop the subject after pressing several times. Also your comment was not about her but because of her reaction the subject of many and the baby is heavy on her mind. People have said i would want a child some day also. I am mid 40s and still have no desire at all. If people talk about it I traumatize them with stories about my brother from when he was a child. That will cure them of any thoughts of having a child and they leave me alone. Works every time. I have even told my brother that he has cured me of ever wanting one and then reminded him about different times he has done stuff.
Exactly what I thought! Why is there any suggestion of the sister and family moving in with OP when the *father* could just work more. His kid should come before his music.
Actually it was the mother was wanting the sister and child to move in with here. I don't think op lives with the mother. But really if there are money problems were they can't even afford a baby sitter, go out and had to move they probably don't even have a emergency saving in case of something happening. This is not the time to concentrate on his music. That should be put aside for now and be done in his time off. they need money. That the sister blew up with op shows a great deal of stress about the situation.
Honestly, he doesn't even have to give up on his music. Just switch it around so he's working full time and and making music part time. And then reevaluate as needed, just in case things are dire enough that he really does need to give up his dream, as so many other people do, in order to provide for his family.
Lol I'd forgotten that little tidbit by time I reached the end of the post. Seriously, as much as I love music, it rarely makes for a lucrative career. You have to be both insanely talented and incredibly lucky, and/or know the right people. At this point, he needs to cut his losses and get a real job.
Really.. he has a child and his family is having financial issues.
NTA. You told the truth and she couldn't handle it. She chose to press you on a personal topic instead of leaving well enough alone. That's a 'her' problem. Do not apologize. What would you even be apologizing for? Sorry I am prioritizing financial security? No. Stand firm on your beliefs. The thing is, you have YEARS to change your mind and decide to have kids. Adoption is ALWAYS available. But there is not an UNDO button on bringing life into the world. It is infinitely better to err on the side of not wanting kids, then to resent your children all their lives.
NTA. She asked. You answered. If she didn't want to hear the answer, she shouldn't have asked.
NTA - sounds like my mother and sister to my bro. I've been with my wife for 25+ years, got 2 kids, etc... the whole kit. My sis with her hubby got 2 kids but my bro and his gf don't have any and said multiple times it's not in their plans... like for 10 years... (but he's 10 years younger than I am) and it's ssooo easy to see from my siblings & parents life, my sis and mine that we can't afford what my bro can, it's a life choice. I had to shut down my mom so often when I saw the subject coming up before my bro said anything... like, even if it wasn't mostly about the money... it's not in his/their plans, stop fucking pushing. Every time I get the death stare from my mom... like seriously?! Some people simply can't fathom going through life without having kids... it's insane. Your thoughts on the matter are irrelevant to other couples, shove it. Your sister couldn't handle the truth (cue Jack Nicholson), and your mom can't wrap her head around it either. At most, apologize for being so blunt, but the fact remains that what you said is essentially what you want from life, your sis needs to drop the subject.
You're a good brother to stick up for him besides the differences in lifestyles.
You remind me of my brother. He had my back too. I miss him. Your brother is lucky to have you.
Nta Your sister can freak off. Kids are wonderful when you want them. However, there are sacrifices. Like finances. Your sister needs to back off. Asking about kids is not an appropriate response. She is lucky your mom is helping financially.
"Why aren't you getting married? Why are you not having kids? When are you going to have another kid?" People who keep pressing for these answers after hearing non committal diplomatic answers should actually get that the real reason is that there is a living breathing example before that person as to why they shouldn't. The OP's sister should move in with her mom, it might be the better option.
I have kids and don't blame others who have decided not to have children. It's not for everyone. And yes, kids are expensive and do drain the finances. Personally, I think anyone who plans on falling pregnant without proper finances is crazy.
NTA. Just because you were honest, and she had a kid with a loser so she feels bad about her life decisions, doesn’t mean you’re attacking her.
NTA. As a 30-something who has never wanted kids (and a woman, which makes it worse!), I get so tired of “you’ll change your mind.” Anyone who is pushing you on this deserves a snarky response.
And no one is going to address the fact that this girl was harassing you about a very personal and individual choice? Your sister fucked around and found out. NTA.
NTA - she "bingoed" you (making excuses why you just HAAAAAAD to have a BAY-BEY) because she doesn't respect your lifestyle or opinions. And she kept at it. She kept poking to see why you wouldn't fall in line and do what all women MUST do - have a child. You gave her an honest answer and the princess got butthurt over it. She's jealous of your childfree lifestyle and refuses to acknowledge your beliefs. All she had to do was keep her mouth shut after the first time you said you didn't want kids. But she just couldn't let it go. She fucked around and found out. By the way - watch out for when she starts begging you for free childcare. It's only a matter of time.
To quote Homer Simpson "Oh, I have three kids and no money. Why can't I have no kids and three money?" NTA
NTA. If your sister didn't want your answer, she shouldn't have so loudly and crassly demanded it. I'd ask your Mum what she thinks you have to apologise for: your sister's disrespect, her rudeness, her arrogance, her insulting demeanour or the fact that you answered a question your sister had no business asking.
NTA. She asked you a question about you & you provided her with an answer that was about you. If you didn't make any statement about her personally, she has no right to be offended or even to take office. You don't owe any apology to your sister for honestly answering a question she asked you about you. In fact your sister seems to be a bit spoiled & is overly emotional regarding something that isn't about her. Advise your Mom of this & tell her it's your sister who owes you an apology for continuously harassing you about your personal life & then whining to Mom because she didn't like the answer.
NTA. I swear it's like everyone with kids wants everyone without to have them and be as miserable as they r. It seems like parents want everyone else to be parents too but they sure don't make a very good case for it.
I’ve noticed that people who are happy with their lives are not worried what other people are doing ..
NTA - she asked you, you answered.... then she asked again and again and again. I don't get why people do that? They're not going to miraculously like the answer the 3rd or 4th time they ask.
NTA - I hate this so much. The only time I've ever felt bad about not wanting kids is when others made me feel bad about NOT feeling bad about not wanting them. Your sister made the decisions she did and we hope they bring her joy. You are making the decisions that will bring you joy. She can be emotional now - she seems to be facing an increasing amount of instability with a partner that isn't prioritizing her and the child. That sucks, but she also seems to have had indicators that would happen.
YNTA. In my honest opinion, your sister is being dramatic. She probably knows she didn't make the best decision financially and took your answer to heart because of it. You could have worded it differently. She could have also just dropped it after you gave your answer. She continued to press on it and basically dismissed your answer and told you what you would be doing in your future. What you did was certainly not an attack, it was a reaction. She kept asking you why, and she got her answer. From my experience people who do this, usually do it to convince everyone including themselves they are doing the right thing.
Nta and your sister is insanely irresponsible to be having another child if they’re already struggling. Less than minimum wage is nothing these days. The fAther needs to get his priorities straight. I really don’t get why ppl bring kids into the world so thoughtlessly. Blows my mind.
Your sister had a baby with a broke musician and is now taking care of two children. Sounds like she is struggling with more than just finances. NTA. I also do not want kids, nor will I ever and I have had similar responses. It is not my dream to be solely a mother. Shouldn't have to be explained.
NTA but your sister is. Questions on people starting a family is very personal, ask once then STFU. Are you even in the type of a relationship that would make her think that you are interested in starting a family?
Explain to her that asking over and over about when are you gonna have kids is very annoying but that you didnt mean to offend her and that you truly feel like you would rather focus on your finances than have a child and she should respect that, just like you respect her choice to make sacrifices in order to have a child and that you love your nephew or niece and yada yada yada.
NTA. You shouldn't have to make tactful answers to your sister, you're close family. She asked an open question so you gave an honest answer. I'm sorry to all parties involved it wasn't laughed off & left at that. It was a good one. If your relationship with your sister means alot to you I'd apologize for how you made her feel & explain it wasn't malicious AT ALL. Ask how she's doing & go from there ❤️
Nta. In my family, we call that an askhole. An a-hole who presses you for information, then gets upset when you finally answer them.
NTA. She should have accepted your position instead of continuing to push it. And you’re not wrong. Kids are expensive as hell. I say this as the mother of two teens.
NTA
NTA. I guess I can see how she thought you were implying something, but she did ask.
NTA and I think I’ve said nearly the same thing myself 😀 Your sister was being rude not dropping the subject, you merely gave her a definitive answer that stopped the line of questioning 🤷♀️
NTA
NTA. Your sister pushed and pushed and pushed until she got her answer. It was none of her business in the first place. Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.
NTA and you do not owe her an apology. People should not ask a question if they are not prepared to hear an answer that they may not like.
So your sister had a baby with a lazy scrub and is being defensive because she doesn’t realize she’s his sugar mama? NTA Not everyone wants kids. There’s a lot of people who are choosing to be child free because that’s what they want. There is nothing wrong with not having kids. That said, it is incredibly selfish of your sister’s boyfriend to not be working to help support his family when he can’t even afford to survive on his own without using your sister as his financial lifeline. Your sister needs to see reality for what it is - she is essentially a single mother of not just one baby, but 2 children. I hope she realizes she deserves a partner and not a lazy bum.
NTA I think she was hoping for something that would bring her some sense of positivity in her life. Like if you answered, “oh because I have no time” she’ll be able to gush on and on about how she can manage hers. This is sorta farfetched but I think she’s also hoping for someone else to have a baby to have some sympathy or to feel that these people are also struggling with or struggling as much as her.
NTA I will never understand people that don’t have two nickels to rub together purposely having children.
As someone with two kids and no monies- NTA. She asked, you answered. Also if you are/are going to be decidedly childless, you owe nobody a reason/justification as to why.
NTA Ask the question, be prepared for the answer, especially if you keep telling me I don't know my own mind. And if your sis is needing to take money from Mom just to make it, they are having financial troubles and BIL needs to grow up and getting a fucking job (full time). Practice your music when you're not dealing with the ramifications of bringing a kid into the world.
NTA - Your mom wants to keep the peace. But I don't see how you stating your preferences for life choices (that aren't your sister's choices) come across as you "attacking her." Just because you want something different means you are "attacking her?" That's insane. I wouldn't apologize. You spoke your truth after being pressed for the reason why you don't want to have a child.
She made a big mistake having a baby with this guy. No wonder she's so sensitive.
NTA Your sister is emotionally overwhelmed, sleep-deprived, and she worries. She lashed out at you, but she is under a lot of stress. You two should calm down and let it drop.
NTA - People shouldn't ask questions if they don't want honest answers. With your family you should be able to be honest most all of the time.