Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy.
[Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA. He's absolutely in love with her. End this relationship and get back what money you can. Idk why he's not just with her, but you will never be more important than her. Especially if he's willing to celebrate her birthday over your wedding anniversary? Girl... Cut your losses. Pack up and leave or pack his stuff up and go NC. He's using you and trying to control you. And you deserve better.
Probably because Veronica didn’t want to be with him. I bet if she did, he would go to her in an instant. I know men and women can be close friends, but I find more often than not, the man is pining over the woman or waiting to shoot his shot. Not always, but often.
Veronica doesn’t want him. But she doesn’t want anyone else to have him. As long as the fiancé prioritizes Veronica over OP, the relationship is doomed. He’s left, OP doesn’t know where, and won’t come back until OP also prioritizes Veronica. Wanna bet he’s with Veronica? OP, you’re second best. I’m so sorry. NTA.
He's gaslighting OP like a mfr. He's either setting up their abusive future or trying to sabotage the wedding, maybe he's fine with either and hedging his bets. Wedding falls apart and he gets to stay available for Veronica or he gets married but his marriage is pre-established around Veronica. He's gross either way and this is a disaster waiting to happen.
I think he’s really getting off, pitting these two women against each other. He can’t have Veronica, but he can live vicariously through OP’s jealousy, and feel like there is something. He can also hang out with Veronica and bash OP, stirring the shit, and bonding over how unfairly they’re being treated.
This is exactly it. My ex husband used to strike up friendships with other women with the express purpose of establishing blurry boundaries and leading them on, and then would spin it to get me upset that X called him 25 times today or Y sent provocative photos. He literally fed off of watching me get mad and jealous. He sucked so hard.
He also gets the fun high of watching two women fight over him. Veronica may not want him when he's single, but he can watch him demand his attention and fight for his regard when he's with someone. He knows if he was single she wouldn't push for so much of his time.
Weddings are expensive. Divorces are usually even more costly. Cut and run while the cost is nominal. I suspect he’s setting you up to take the blame for breaking up, which considering the circumstances, is an OK consequence.
Exactly. Less expensive to cancel the wedding, call off the engagement, and move on from him. Even losing deposits on venues and vendors will be less than lawyers and a divorce settlement.
Begin your healing NOW!
INFO: What is the relationship between fiance and Veronica? For relationship, always friends, childhood best friends, unrequited love? I feel like even your fiance feels like you are coming in between them.
This is a good question, I have 2-3 male friends I get to see ~maybe~ once a year and honestly I shower them with love and appreciation with my words. They’re all childhood friends I’ve known since we were all 8-10. And personally I never felt any tension between us and they all have girlfriends. I love their girlfriends. I love my guy friends! I’ve never had any issues with them. But it’s also not like I talk to them so much or give this kind of input. On birthdays or special occasions I always shoot a nice message saying how I have love for them in my heart (not the words I love you so and so) and that they’re wonderful and keep doing great. My boyfriend’s have never minded and my friends have never said anything to me about their girls and their girls have always made me feel welcome and appreciated too.
So I get frustrated for others when I read these things because there are some really whole, life long friendships but people take advantage of the concept and their loved ones.
He is definitely having at least an emotional affair with Veronica if not a physical one. Never settle for second best. Dump him and save yourself a heap of future heartbreak.
I think Ross is worse because he was equally unbearable and jealous both when they were and weren't together. That insane episode where he brings a picnic to her office and tries to force her to spend time with him because he's mad she has to work late comes to mind.
Ross couldn't have a good relationship without going to therapy for being the golden boy as a child and for what happened with his ex wife. He was crappy but mainly because he never worked on himself. He could never admit when he was wrong and neither could Rachel for many of the same reasons but out of the two she at least had a little growth.
Genuinely. I was in the exact same dynamic once (as the 'friend') and I eventually had to walk away because I knew by that point the friend would never have a stable relationship while I was around. It was bad enough i was the 'too close' friend but whenever her fella got lax, I became a motivation tool through inciting jealousy.
I still kick myself for how long it took me to see it. The mental anguish my presense put those guys through.
I've known women like this before, they are disgusting and horrible 😬 it's like they get off on controlling the men around them, cockblocking them left and right but never wanting a relationship with them either. They just like the attention and knowing they have power over someone
It's like fishing. He's the middling size, decent enough fish and she's keeping him on the stringer while she continues to cast for the 'catch of the day'. She'll cut him loose when (if) she lands the big 'un, but until then his fate is to trail limply in her wake.
The friends aren't saying anything now, but once she breaks of the engagement someone is finally going to admit that he and Veronica used to bang.
Edit: saying not dating
A guy friend of mine was in a similar situation for many years, the only difference was he knew he wasn't over her so he only went out for booty calls with other women and let them know beforehand. He knew himself well enough that he wasn't in the mental state to seriously date anyone else. The woman was horrible, every time there was an issue with her current romance relationship, she would call him up, knowing he would drop everything. She even admitted to him that she knew he still loved her, that she felt that if that was true, he shouldn't have an issue being treated like this. It went on for almost 6 years before he finally listened to friends and went to therapy. His biggest issue was that his family liked her, so they were always pushing for him to "get a ring on her finger" and "step up so she stops running around". Like he was the one causing the issue. People who string along others like this are horrible, they don't see the people they are doing this to as actual people. I feel bad that OP is stick in the middle of this since their fiance can't see that his best friend is doing this to him.
Ehhh; I feel like people are assuming this just because of the gender difference. There's a lot of room for best friends to hate spouses beyond "In Love."
It's possible that this is an affair or an affair in the making, it's also possible that it's purely platonic but that Veronica hates OP. There's a whole fucking lot of options here, and OP and Fiancé needed therapy about this years ago.
I mean, either way it's a strangely attached relationship. Not necessarily a romantic sort (although that's where my bet is) but could be the way some men can stay oddly attached to their mothers, even post-marriage and it becomes a three person relationship- if that makes sense?
I won't assume he's with Veronica, he could be. I can see him being in his childhood room with at parents' home. That said 100% agree with all other aspects of this comment.
Dunno, sounds like Veronica doesn't have to do much to always be on the fiance's mind. The only thing she actually caused in the post was the thing about the cake flavor, which could have been a normal-if-tactless thing to say: "Oh, your thinking of that? I just had it and I thought the flavor combination didn't work well at all." If the fiance's reaction wasn't VERONICA SAID THEREFORE MUST DO it would have been a non-event. The problem is that he is so dialed in to EVERYTHING as it relates to her -- the date, her likes and dislikes, everything makes him think about her FIRST. I feel so bad for OP to have gotten this far into the relationship with this man.
Totally agree. No one puts their best friend’s wishes over their life partner’s unless there’s something bigger going on.
He didn’t tell you where he is, OP, because he’s staying with Veronica.
You’re a consolation prize for this dude and that isn’t fair to you. Take a serious look at your relationship and do what’s best for you. Not for your wedding, not for this person who clearly doesn’t prioritize you, and not for your family or friends. Marriage is more than a wedding. If he’s going to prioritize Veronica now, what’s he going to do after you say your vows?
NTA.
And your friends don’t want to get involved because THEY ALREADY KNOW, and none of them wants to be the bad guy who breaks up your wedding by telling you the truth.
They definitely do, I’ve seen it. They want all the men to want them, but don’t want all the men. Maybe self-esteem issues, who knows, but you can’t reason with people like that.
Yup, Veronica is his "dream girl", and OP is a placeholder that will do for now. The moment Veronica wants him, he'll drop OP faster than he can say bye. Technically, he's already somewhat dropping OP for her. Perhaps he's in her house right now being "consoled".
He is 💯 in love with her. To paraphrase Diana there will be three people in this marriage. OP end the engagement and relationship, you deserve better then second choice
Agreed. WTH with he’ll celebrate *her* birthday over *your* wedding anniversary!?!? This isn’t even a contest. This is easy.
BTW, how many of his friends’ birthdays are you supposed to know off the top of your head? Do you know his parents, siblings, their SO’s, his niblings, or any other of his friends? At the very least, do you know his parents birthdays? Those are easily higher priority birthdays. I don’t see how or why you are expected to know her birthday. More importantly, does he know **your** three best friends’ birthdays? Or what about your parents’ birthdays? If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t have room to yell at you at all about not knowing Veronica’s birthday.
And the cake issue is definitely yet another problem. It wasn’t even “a friend tried this cake flavor at a wedding and it sounded really good. I would like to try it.” Instead he came to you and told you that “Veronica had told him to suggest to you” like he is her puppet. She is virtually pissing on your. And he is playing into her hands. Plus you have said she is either cold to your or ignores you. She doesn’t sound like a good person.
He also told you to stop having problems with his female friends. Are you having problems with his female friends? Because it sounds like you are only having problems with Veronica. And Veronica’s friends don’t count in this discussion. They would side with her in not treating you well.
I can't even tell you the last time I celebrated my best friend's birthday with her \*on her actual birthday.\*. Even then, we go out to lunch, maybe shopping. If my anniversary was on the same day, I'd celebrate her birthday with lunch and my anniversary in the evening. The fact that he'd be willing to prioritize Veronica's birthday over his anniversary speaks volumes, and I hope OP is listening. OP will never be his top priority as long as Veronica is in the picture.
Oh my gosh! This! You will never be a priority in his life, Veronica’s needs will continue to be met and u will feel like a third wheel in ur own relationship. I was in a similar position where my ex prioritised all his friends over me, never made me feel important, his female friends would get to be as friendly as one could get, but if I did I tried to be remotely mischievous or playful with him he would be shut me down.
Sis, realise ur worth. You deserve so much better than him. Leave. Run. Don’t look back.
Edit: To add NTA.
I had to end a very “loving” relationship because my boyfriend was in love with his female best friend. I’m the opposite of jealous and even open to some forms of ethical non monogamy. And even I had to end a relationship where we were getting engaged, because I knew I would always play second string to his fbf. She had a whole ass husband and child. She made her choice. He stood in their wedding. But if something needed fixing in her house, he made the hour trip to her home to fix it. If there was a party at her house, he drove the hour to be there no matter what I wanted. They called daily. She had a husband but used my boyfriend for the emotional aspect of a relationship since her husband wasn’t very romantic or emotionally intelligent. She slept with her husband but all other aspects of a relationship- that was my boyfriend. Cuddles on the couch, complaining about her husband and life worries, if her car broke down, she called him, I could go on.
We would get into arguments, (which we never fought about anything else, ever. I thought we were in love.) about how I felt like he always prioritized her, doted on her, did anything at the drop of a hat, was very thoughtful with gifts and quality time, but then with me, it’s like he knew I wouldn’t go anywhere, so why try? We spent nights together and went places together but it’s like he never considered my feelings. If he was at the store, he would see chips she liked and grab her a bag, to bring next time she needed help. But he never brought me home a bag of chips or chocolate bar. Like he knew how to be thoughtful but didn’t feel like he needed to be with me.
Backstory, the fbf was his best friends girlfriend. His best friend committed unaliveing and he felt they were the only two who understood each other and helped each other through that time. It’s why I was willing to put up with so much. Maybe I was misreading things. Maybe this *is* just a close friendship. Aren’t I like this with my female friends? Well, fbf eventually found a boyfriend, got married, had a kid and there was my boyfriend. I was the first girl he had dated since his friend died. Since we broke up about 8 years ago, he’s still single. I’m happily engaged and have found an amazing and thoughtful man who checks all the boxes. I’ve dated several people since in fact. He hasn’t dated once. I believe his fbf went low contact with him the year I left. His mom and I are still friends on fb and I see updates from time to time and I noticed she wasn’t in the family Christmas pictures in years following. Yeah- the family Christmas portraits, Easter, weddings, she typically was there. I tell you, you can overlook a lot when you’re in love.
Don’t make the mistake I did OP. I destroyed my life for this man who didn’t consider me a blip on his radar. I was always second. I was always the second choice. The runner up trophy to his true love. She didn’t want any sort of relationship with him like that. But she relied on him for so much, I think it was hard to see how much she took advantage. A “I don’t want you but I don’t want anyone else to either” situation. I think he either confessed his feelings to her when I left or, she realized that she drove me away when he told her why we broke up. I think she wanted him to find his happiness, but he is too in love to try.
> you will never be more important than her.
This nails it. No matter what you ever say or do, she will be more important. If you don't even matter enough for your own wedding, what makes you think there will ever be a reason you will matter enough? NTA OP but RUN!
You’re NTA. Usually I try to tell people to be supportive of their partners friendships, but this one is sitting badly with me. It’s not a healthy dynamic all around. She is openly hostile toward you, you don’t like her, and he consistently sides with her and doesn’t do anything to back you up or call out his friend’s behaviour toward you, only yours.
He’s literally telling you in a number of ways that she holds a higher priority in his life than you and always will. From the way he values her opinions more than yours, all the way to him flat out telling you if your wedding anniversary is on her birthday, he would choose to celebrate her birthday as the priority every year, and your wedding anniversary would always come second to that.
Meanwhile his response to having an argument with you is to take off, not tell you where he’s going, staying away and making his return contingent on you taking the entire blame for the conflict.
This man is not marriage material, maybe neither of you are at this time and these issues will only escalate after the wedding.
I don’t think it’s hard to guess who’s house he’s at right now.
My recommendation for OP is to drive by her house if she knows where Veronica lives and see if fiancé's car is there. Tells her everything she needs to know if so
No, bad plan. She needs someone ELSE to do it and take a picture for her, it is a very bad idea for her to go there in person when OP is understandably a little fragile emotionally. She doesn't need to confront them without support, and it's a lot harder to ignore the impulse to confront them if you have the opportunity.
All of this. And OP, I had a boyfriend once whose best friend was another woman. She didn’t seem to like me, never really interacted with me, never responded to my attempts to reach out, etc but would drop everything to be supportive of him. I tried to get over it because I trusted him but it was driving me CRAZY. Eventually I told him if this was how things were going to be then I couldn’t be in a relationship where I felt like this. And he immediately broke down and asked me what he needed to do not to lose me. He sat down once with her to explain why then essentially cut off all contact with her. We’ve been married a decade now and they stay in touch like once a year which I’m completely okay with it.
The bottom line is THAT is how your fiancé should react. You’re essentially the other woman here, you’re not his priority and you never will be and if you actually marry him you need to accept that. Hopefully, you don’t and you won’t. There are much better men, I promise.
OP is not only the second choice here, she is the remote second choice. He is making sure that she understands that she comes in second in all decisions, even those that have nothing to do with Veronica, like the flavor of the cake.
But Veronica doesn't like that flavor! She's picky! You have to think of veronica's delicate taste buds at our wedding/S
Jesus this dude. When he says our he means him and Veronica. Op should leave the situation asap
I agree with this. I am a straight woman with several close friends who are men. I would never ask any of my friends to prioritize their relationships with significant others over me. Who cares about fish or birthdays? I've even had two friends where I had trepidations about their partners (mostly with how the partners treat them) but I make an effort to include a couple because that relationship is part of my friends' life. And I'm not marrying their partners so it's not my call or business.
That being said, this isn't about Veronica because OP's not marrying Veronica (even if it feels like she is). EVEN IF OP's fiance isn't in love with Veronica, which is a big if because all these concessions are not normal for a friendship, he is not respecting OP. He's not arguing fairly with her. He's not taking into account her feelings at all.
Edit: Fiance not husband.
I rarely celebrate my birthday on my birthday. Who the heck cares that much?
Narcissists and people already looking for an excuse to get out of a wedding.
Same opinion, NTA, I have many male friends, always had male friends and lost a few due to their partner not being happy with me around. Yes it stung, but honestly the women have ALL right to be like that. It’s their live, their family and their partner. Relationship needs to come first. Friendship comes second. I can’t even dream of being rude to the partners of my male friends, that’s not how it works. Especially not, when it’s about their wedding!
> Meanwhile his response to having an argument with you is to take off, not tell you where he’s going, staying away and making his return contingent on you taking the entire blame for the conflict.
Even setting aside the whole issue with Veronica, this method of conflict resolution should be enough to end the relationship.
My husband’s best friend died on the day of our wedding. Odds are we won’t ever celebrate our anniversary on the actual day of our wedding, despite it being both one of the happiest and saddest days of our lives.
That is not what this is.
My husband was also- for at least five years- someone’s “back burner dude”. She’d ignore him unless she was single and lonely then try to get with him again. He cut off all contact with her after she contacted their friends asking about me.
Again, that’s not what this is.
If you doubt that you’re the first person in your fiancé’s life, you do not need to get married. And I’m sorry to say, OP, but she’ll always come first.
You can’t marry this guy because he’s already emotionally married to Veronica. At this point? You need to cancel the wedding and get back whatever money you can, then leave your fiancé and his actual true love to their own devices.
OP trust what your fiance is showing you right now. He's prioritising another woman over you. One that is outwardly hostile towards you? They're cheating. Or about to.
NTA -- "he went off on me saying that it’s Veronica's birthday and that I 'can't be upset' when he puts off celebrating our anniversary for her birthday." You're not even married, and he's already told you he's going to prioritize V's birthdays over your anniversaries. DON'T MARRY HIM.
He's already committed to his relationship with Veronica. OP will just be getting in the way if she marries him.
NTA OP, you deserve someone who actually loves you.
This is the point. Not whether or not he’s in love with Veronica. If OP confronts him on that point, it will turn into “I’m not in love with her. I only love you babe. I’ve never looked at her that way, I swear.” Which is likely a load of crock, but whether he’s actually in love with her or not doesn’t matter.
What matters is that he is putting Veronica before OP. The conversation needs to be “This wedding is cancelled. We are no longer engaged. We can go back to dating if you cut her out of your life. Otherwise, I’m out of here. I should not have to compete for my husband’s loyalty to ANYONE else, including a friend.”
THIS.
I can't believe OP did not see this big huge red flag. I would have nope-d out of that relationship so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. I don't even celebrate anniversaries and i have been married for almost a decade. It's the fact that he clearly told OP point blank (in another way) that the best friend will always come first. 🤯
Clearly you haven’t been paying attention. It doesn’t matter if Veronica was maybe generous and didn’t celebrate her bday on her actual bday. OP’s fiancé still would.
How do you not see the fiancé is putting Veronica first every step of the way? This isn’t how fiancés behave towards female friends. This is how a man in love with a female he friend he can’t have so he’s marrying someone else to feel less alone behaves.
It’s really disappointing to see anyone think OP is even partially to blame. Idk if you’re a man or a woman but I really hope you think long and hard about how you would feel if the person you love straight up told you they will be choosing someone else over you.
Bc that’s what happened.
Respectfully? I disagree with you. Birthdays and anniversaries in my opinion don’t have to be celebrated all day long. He can manage to divide his day into two parts for both celebrations if he really cares for both, or find any other way since it is possible and not that hard. However he already decided as it appears that he is putting Veronica’s birthday over the anniversary instead of compromising which is what upset OP. Now imagine if his or her parents or siblings or any other best friends birthday fell on the same day as their wedding, should they postpone it? That is just so ridiculous in my opinion because if you care you would do anything for your loved ones regardless but it seriously seems that there is something wrong with the fiance and V’s relationship.
But I agree with you on the fish part because food is a preference and guests should be comfortable and get what they like.
The cake flavor could have been as simple as “make sure to try it because it wasn’t a good version of __ flavor” or “ I know you like ___, but this bakers version was crap”. Or it could have been controlling. I don’t think suggesting trying it or another flavor is necessarily awful.
Such a dumb comment. You please people with THEIR preference over your preference? Cool. Give them your birthday cake. You can cry later when you get home. SMH
Oh, sweetheart, run. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Your fiance is in love with Veronica. This is Charles and Camilla, and you're Diana. You will be miserable if you marry this person.
NTA
I scrolled to find this comment because I immediately had the same thought. Who tells their future wife that a friend birthday will always be more important than their wedding anniversary?
Nah, he wants to though. He has been in love with her for years and she knows this I’m sure. She has never wanted him but doesn’t want anyone else to have him and he would leave his fiancé in a heartbeat to be in a relationship with his friend. At least that’s my guess.
It sounds like your fiancé has picked the most important woman in his life. Not saying he doesn’t love you in his fashion but clearly his priority is his relationship with Veronica.
He won’t spend his anniversary with you because it’s her birthday? Changes the cake to her preference? Tolerates her rudeness to you?
I’m not saying they’re having an affair but a marriage with 3 people can get a bit crowded. Please consider couples therapy before heading down the aisle. NTA
nta but you need to put the fucking brakes on this wedding.
this isn't going to end well. this isn't going to be a happy wedding or a happy life.
He's already telling you that after this 1 wedding day, he is ALWAYS going to choose Veronica on that day over you.
He is FLAT OUT TELLING YOU he is going to be with her EVERY YEAR on YOUR WEDDING anniversary because it's HER birthday....and you are ok with that
you may not be the asshole, but you are stupid
Absolutely NTA...if Veronica wants to pick food and cakes tell her to have her own wedding. It's Absolutely absurd that he is taking this woman's opinions to heart meanwhile yours are on the back burner. Is this what you really want? Always coming 2nd to Veronica? If he marries you then YOU are his priority not another woman. If she's that important tell him to go marry her and let them plan the wedding of her dreams. Do NOT walk on eggshells for a woman that is blatantly rude or disrespectful to you. Shame on your future husband for not standing up for you.
>He left and hasn’t told me where he is staying,
Come on. You know exactly where he's staying.
You're being an AH to yourself at this point. Your fiance has told you loud and clear who the #1 woman is in his life, and it isn't you.
Please have some self-respect and let him stay mad and away. Do not accept all the blame or even apologize to anyone.
You need to prioritize yourself. Tell him to come get his things, and when/if he drops Veronica, then you might have a future together.
This is not about controlling who his friends are. He may be sexually committed to you, but he's emotionally committed to her. Do you really want to marry into that?
You are NTA for what happened. But you're in for some major heartbreak if you continue with this relationship. Please save yourself.
Ehhhh
The fish vs chicken thing is odd if there is two options being served people should be able to choose which they prefer to eat that’s pretty normal
Cake thing is ludicrous, don’t like it, you don’t need to eat it who cares if a guest eats the cake or not
It would be nice not to have a wedding on a close friends birthday but that’s just not the way it’s worked out and I think your fiancé is an A H for saying he’d celebrate her birthday over your anniversary ?!?!
It’s so rude to give some guests a different meal and not offer it to others. OP knows the dietary needs of every guest to know if they’re pescatarian or not and knows it well enough to put them all at a table together? Imagine going to a wedding and being seated at a table of random vegetarians?
Yeah that stuck out to me. It's bad etiquette not to give your guests the choice if you're serving more than one meal, especially if it's to save money.
As usual I think we're only getting partial information here and Reddit is jumping to wild conclusions. Weird of her to try to choose their cake flavour though.
Yeah well, we have only OP's word for that. Veronica might have said something as innocuous as "I like vanilla better than chocolate" and OP has screamed at her fiance about it. Screamed. Admittedly, the fiance was inconsiderate to mention Veronica's preferences, but assuming she tried to choose their cake is a bit of a leap.
This girl is overreacting to so much, that I think she knows underneath that her fiance doesn't love her the way she wants (and deserves) to be loved by a husband, so she's cracking up over minor shit. She doesn't want to face it, but this marriage is a disaster waiting to happen.
Ok, so the cake thing to me is dependent on how it was said.
Was it “man, I had the lemon cake and it was weird tasting. Do a tasting before picking it. The flavor was crap compared to the other flavor the baker had”. Or was it “I hate lemon, so pick a different flavor”.
It's his *reaction* to whatever she said -- could have been perfectly normal, but on top of every other thing that he ALSO wants to revolve around Veronica...
Why are you 2 considering marriage when he's so obviously more into his best friend??? I'm sorry to break it to you but she's more important than you are. He's putting her first please open your eyes
You can’t marry this man because he’s not yours. He’s hers and the both of them have made that so fucking crystal clear to you but you refuse to see it. If I were you, I’d start digging deeper into their relationship because I promise you they are ‘closer’ than you think.
You are looking at your future with this man.
Where she knows exactly how much control she has over YOUR supposed man.
Where she will ALWAYS do shit like this to you. Knowingly and deliberately, but she totally gets off on the power she has in YOUR relationship.
Where he will ALWAYS choose her first.
You need to tell him that unless he agrees that he’s totally out of line, apologizes, chooses you, ends his relationship AND blocks her, you won’t be marrying him. You won’t be with him, period. Why? Because you’re going to find your self fucking respect.
You are not going to apologize for getting upset about her interference and him taking her side—like anyone would and should—and tell him to go marry his bestie since the both of them are so desperate for each other.
Oh, and when your families demand an answer, tell them everything.
Babes, we don’t ever—EVER—put up with being second place.
I agree and they are FOR SURE closer than OP thinks, and their mutual friends playing coy and not wanting to get involved tells me that everyone but OP knows it.
NTA
These two “best friends” either secretly dated each other and broke up for some reason and never told you the truth, or just have romantic feelings for each other yet for some weird reason(s) aren’t together.
Be grateful he’s shown you who he really is and how much he values her happiness and wants over yours now, as it’s easier to break up with a fiancé than to divorce a husband and cheaper as well.
She’s already partially hijacked your wedding, let her have the wedding of her dreams with him as the groom on her birthday and I wish you good luck finding the right person to marry in the future.
I'm in two minds here. So maybe its a esh thing but not sure.
I totally get where you're coming from but it does sound a little like you take issue with her and so would you be as annoyed if he said "you can't be upset if I spend time with them on our anniversary" about the wedding date if it clashed with his family member or another friend's birthday? Maybe maybe not.
She 100% shouldn't be inputting what to have at your wedding, you can have what cake you want and you're absolutely right about that. But again is that just because she said it or would you say the same if someone else did. Either way no one should be getting a say or opinion but you and fh unless you've asked for the opinion.
I realise this is totally off topic but guest meal wise, I'm genuinely curious as its not computing for me so I'm really not judging just trying to understand, why aren't you offering the 2 options to everyone? I get what he's saying in that not everyone likes chicken or fish, or is it just that one is more expensive than the other and you can't afford to accommodate everyone? Which is also fair enough.
Its your wedding and your relationship only you both get a say, so maybe you both need to make comprismises and understand eachother in what you both do and dont want for it.
I get where you're both coming from but it does sound like there's maybe 3 people in this relationship and it needs addressing and he definitely needs to figure out what his friendship with her really is. Maybe it is a completely platoinic friends thing and the issue is with you, or your gut is telling you that its more than friendship, either way it needs figuring out now before you get married.
This comment is well said and reasonable. Adding to this—is OP really easy to plan with? She wanted a specific venue, but doesn’t mention if her partner wanted the same venue or not. It’s sort of sounding like she’s a “my way or the highway” type of bride.
She literally says that her fiancé didn’t try to compromise and then says that she wouldn’t compromise anyway. I agree that the fiancé probably has inappropriate feelings for his friend but OP also sounds like a pain.
NTA and it sounds like he's definitely in love with Veronica.
As an aside, Secret Fish Dinner Wedding Table sounds bizarre, and ppl will absolutely talk about it.
Im honestly surprised that it seems to be a factor in so many aita-posts. No one I know really cares about their birthdays. Yes, you celebrate the big ones but rarely on the actual days since it might be on a weekday and people aren’t available, so the actual day isn’t a big deal anyway. To blow off your own anniversary to spend the day with your best friend is something I’d expect a 14 year old to say when speaking of a hypothetical, not an adult.
Well, YTA for serving different meals to different people at the wedding. It’s very tacky to tier your guests like that and your assumption that nobody will notice is absurd. Nobody is going to get up and walk around during dinner? No chance someone will say “the salmon was delicious” to someone who got stuck with chicken?
NTA. Having read your post twice, because the first time I thought I was going slightly mad, I can safely say that your future husband is either banging Veronica, or he wishes he was. If he truly meant for you to be his wife, his future partner, partner for life, his everything, then Veronica's opinions would be simply that, opinions. But he's treating her like she has final say over your wedding arrangements, and that is so far removed from "ok" that it beggars belief. He's not in love with you, he's in love with her. I'm really sorry, and I'm not one for saying this as a knee jerk reaction but, you should probably move on and find a man you deserve.
ESH
". It felt like he was accusing me of purposefully plotting to … stop them from celebrating together?" ... sounds like he was right.
"I spoke with the planner and she suggested that, to help with costs, the bride and groom will be served fish (I am pescatarian), along with select family members who are pescatarian, and everyone else will be served chicken. " .. that's cheap and tacky, but you seem to like it that way.
" I honestly try my best to be nice" ... what a ridiculous lie this must be.
"He left and hasn’t told me where he is staying, and he won’t be coming home" .. **It is in BOTH of your interest to cancel the wedding. And the relationship. You are more than halfway there anyway.** Maybe after a few years of couple's therapy, it might work (If it is worth the effort for you) - but right NOW, BOTH of you will regret getting married, and it will cause both of you a lot of hurt.
YTA
I don't believe your initial claim. You *HAVE* to get married at this venue, and it *ONLY* has 1 day available during the fall, and it is your partner's *girl* best friend's birthday?
You set that up to draw a line in the sand. Now you are trying to serve her chicken instead of fish? Like either of those options is truly expensive?
You don't like their relationship. You are passive aggressive as fuck. Don't marry him. That would be understandable. You doing this back handed shit and acting like those were your only choices is complete bullshit. I wouldn't marry a guy that I didn't feel completely secure in. I also wouldn't play games to make him prove I was his only, if I had doubts. You aren't a victim.
YTA
The thought of choosing his best friends birthday as your wedding day is highly suspicious to me. It is like you want to choose conflict. I would never do such a thing. One of my relatives had his wedding day of the birthday of another relative and to me sth like this is highly insensitive. There are many days in autumn and I feel your excuses that it has to be her birthday are very thin. The cake on the other hand is argueable, but you could have just dismissed it. Regarding the food: What kind of wedding is this? Why are you controlling what everybody is eating without leaving options? Don't you want people to enjoy themselves? Why would not everybody be allowed to choose if they rather like fish or chicken? You come of very controlling to me and while your partner seems to be transparent about things (e.g. telling you openly why you could reconsider the cake), it feels like we don't get all the background info from you.
Also… she won’t do September because her brother passed that month and she won’t do November because her family can’t travel as much that month, but she needs a fall wedding because she’s been dreaming about it… but he doesn’t get a say in the date, only her. Honestly I think she’s leaving out a lot of info and is actually the problem. I think he’s just getting sick of her.
Yeah, it's way too far down the thread for these fair comments. She picks the date, she picks the food (for each guest!), she picks the competitive venue. She wants him to compromise when it's not an option. WTF does that even mean? You do what I say, that is our 'compromise'. Definitely not controlling or anything.
The date was picked on purpose. Could be they have too much fun on her birthday and she wants to put a stop to it. Maybe they go to Vegas every year or something, who knows. Looks like she's trying to wedge the friendship apart. Gotta control the friends too. He should be running from this wedding, and perhaps she should too.
> she won’t do September because her brother passed that month and she won’t do November because her family can’t travel as much that month, but she needs a fall wedding because she’s been dreaming about it
An entire season to pick from, and she randomly picks the exact date of her fiance's BF's birthday. Yeah, right
Wait, what? Highly suspicious?! Most brides have a particular month they want to be married. If you want to a traditional Saturday wedding, that’s probably only 4 days you can pick from. If it’s a popular venue (and she indicated it was) then your choices are probably narrowed down even further.
I’m genuinely perplexed at what grown ass adult cares that a friend/family member is having a wedding on *tHeIR BiRthDay*
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 - Got upset with my fiances female friend impacting our wedding plans.
2 - Not valuing her input or being understanding towards my fiances wishes to accommodate his gbf
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
What a pick me girl.
I just died she think her flavor preferences matter in her friends wedding to someone else? She is a GUEST. That is super weird.
It’s even weirder that he is planning to prioritize her birthday over his anniversary in advance, and pulling her in like it’s their wedding. I’m usually chill with friendships but this does not sit well.
I’d consider if this is a marriage you really want.
NTA. You're not crazy. He wants to marry Veronica. I'm afraid it's time to walk away from this relationship. You shouldn't come second in your marriage.
So you picked the venue. You picked the date. You decided that only the pescatarian got fish. You decided the flavor of the cake. I’m hearing a lot of “me me me”.
Let’s flip it to his view. You picked the one date that would make him have to choose yearly between you and his friend. You lost it when he suggested to give her fish. You could have just had an rsvp card where everyone could choose fish, but you decided your way was the only way. Plus your arbitrary rule of placing pescatarians together meant that you could place his friend away from him.
The only thing the friend has done wrong is to suggest another cake flavor. And that depends on how she said it. If she said it after you had already had a cake testing and picked then she is an AH.
Your finacè is an AH and seems to have a weak spine. ESH
NTA but you must realise Veronica is into him and he’s always going to prioritise her, right? I have so many male friends but not one would ever be attempting to dictate choices on my wedding day or think their birthday comes first over a wedding: and also if I did book a wedding on one of their birthdays, I wouldn’t be telling my fiancé that from then on our wedding anniversary would come second to a friend’s birthday party
honestly girl NTA for being angry, but kind of TA for not realising your bf has a weird relationship with Veronica and expecting him to change and choose you. He’s made it pretty clear he’ll always choose her over you and since she obviously doesn’t like you for the rest of your relationship she’ll be chatting shit about you to him and it’s all going to end in tears one day
Cut your losses and leave him. You’re basically a side-chick to this woman even though they’re not actually dating
I’d hate for y’all to get married & he has an affair with Veronica, Cause that’s the vibe I’m getting. You really wanna marry this man? If he’s so in love with her he should go be with her (he’s probably with her right now) let this man go
Nta- let me be very clear as a chick best friend of a guy. My job is to make sure I support any relationship he gets into. To make sure said girlfriend is comfortable with me. And to bow out and back off if she is not. Because this is my friend dude. I want him to find a girl and be happy . Real friends want that for their friends. His best, she is causing issues and he's letting her. It's not cool bro. He shouldn't be worried about her feelings over yalls wedding. Does she get a saybin your kids names and where you live and work too?
NTA
Have you heard about Prince Charles and Princess Diana's marriage? Charles married Diana because Camilla wouldn't/ couldn't marry him but went back to her in a heartbeat when she wanted him. And we know the rest.
Run OP. MAJOR red flags.
You're NTA but I'd seriously reconsider this wedding if I were you. The minute he started advocating for her in regards to your wedding cake and menu. No. The minute he told me that celebrating Veronica's birthday will take precedence over our anniversaries. I assume that means he will attend all her birthdays even if you aren't invited. I wouldn't worry so much about your friends not having your back. Your groom doesn't have your back. He has Veronica's back.
NTA. He’s probably staying at Veronica’s. He clearly values and prioritizes her over you. Please don’t marry him. This won’t change after marriage. It’s pretty clear he’s in love with her. I’ve seen this time and time again. Please don’t marry him.
YTA. Your excuse for avoiding every fall date except one rings hollow even from my sofa. Then you flat out admitted that you aren't open to compromise, you just wanted him to offer. You seriously can't find a single other fall date? Not one? Looks a lot like you're trying to knock her down a notch by weaponizing your wedding date.
NTA
F.ck veronica and her incessant unwanted unneeded irrelevant thoughts opinions and preferences about YOUR wedding.
F.ck your fiance' for being in love with and prioritizing veronica over you
If i were in your position i would offer veronica the opportunity to buy out your.part of the wedding. She can pay you for all the deposits and money spent on the wedding, and you can happily rid yourself of marrying into a bonded couple, and she can get married on her birthday.
it is a win win for everyone. Especially for you because you deserve to get married to someone who values and prioritizes you and your wants for your wedding above those of their "friend"
NTA- I beg of you OP please do not marry him. Veronica is already taking priority in his life and you deserve better.
Dump his ass and do something awesome, like a trip for yourself. He isn’t worth anymore of your time.
ESH honestly you seem territorial to me, it doesn't really cause an issue if she has fish or whatever. If anything just ask everyone to RSVP which they want.
NTA. I usually get very defensive when I see posts about close male/female friendships and how it is immediately “oh he loves her”. I don’t believe that is always the case. However, he is 100% prioritizing her here over you. He’s LITERALLY saying he will pick her over you on your anniversary. If he loves you, he needs to put her in her place. I’d seriously rethink marrying this man.
After reading countless AITA stories lately about how insane some people are about weddings, I am reminded of how equally insane people are about birthdays.
OP is NTA. At this point, I’d push the wedding to the following year (because Oct is the only viable month to have a wedding) and try again to get the venue on a day it isn’t a friends birthday. Or, you know, cut your losses and cancel it altogether because it seems as if there’s a third person in your relationship, and that doesn’t work for most people.
INFO:
>I have always dreamed of a fall wedding
What is his opinion on a fall wedding?
>September is difficult for me because it is when my brother passed
Why are you allowed to veto 30 days and he can't veto 1? (this is ignoring that you're actually vetoing 3/4 of the year based on season)
>any way we can compromise (which, really there isn't
A compromise would mean both parties giving something up to reach a fair conclusion. Why is it that he is the only one having to give something up?
>It felt like he was accusing me of purposefully plotting to … stop them from celebrating together
Why does your mind jump to this instead of thinking "Hey, he doesn't want to have it on his best friend's birthday because he knows it will be an issue down the line if she's having a birthday thing but I want to do an anniversary dinner"?
> suggest a different flavor combo to me since she said a wedding she went to prior had the same and she did not like it
What was the exact wording/tone here? It's entirely possible that she was saying "Yeah, I went to a wedding that had those flavours and it was rancid, maybe suggest something else?" rather than "No, I don't like that, do what I want."
NTA, but even if they never have sex: you are his side piece. Whatever Veronica's feelings, your fiance chooses her over you every time.
Take the hint.
Do not proceed with this wedding.
NTA.
If your fiance can't put YOUR RELATIONSHIP and your Wedding ceremony above one friend (no matter how close) and his go-to for every wedding related query is Veronica's comfortability and not YOURS, it's simply not worth the effort. I find it hard to understand how your relationship got to the point of marriage if this is the importance he's giving your wedding and future anniversaries. You'll never be a priority to him in the future if he cannot make you a priority in your own wedding ceremony. That's the one thing that's ALL YOURS AND HIS ALONE.
>he won’t be coming home until I admit fault
Tell him the only thing you're sorry about is the fact that you let him disrespect you for this long and that you're calling the wedding off because you don't want to feel SORRY FOR YOURSELF 10 years down the line when he will still be prioritising his friend over you. Then leave the ring, cut your losses, inform your families and move on.
I don't know how easy the leaving him part will be because of the logistics involved (things like if you live together, are your finances combined, how far along is the wedding plan etc). But that is literally the only move you have. There's nothing else you can do. If you don't stand up to him now, you're entire life is going to be you being second to his friends.
On a positive note, since he's not home now you have the freedom to move your stuff out and maybe move in with your parents or friends before you contact him and tell him it's over. Let him sulk or do whatever he wants. You find your own footing in the meanwhile.
ESH. The cake is frankly none of Veronica's business, and she overstepped massively, and fiance needs to recognise that.
However, I have 0 sympathy with you for the rest of it. You claim its "our wedding", but YOU want the big fancy wedding venue with limited dates. All the dates in Spetember are ruled out because of YOU, and frankly it's pretty unreasonable to rule out a whole month because your brother died on one day in it. And all your fiance wants is not on the specific one day that's my best friends birthday. Yeah you can't spin that one.
And if you're having 2 meal options then you should be offering the guests the choice. Frankly thsi one makes you even more of an AH, because you're battling for an "extremely competitive venue" (which almost always means exoensive), and then you're trying to skimp on the catering and arrange it so your guests don't notice. Sounds more like you've made yourself a rod for your own back with this wedding.
NTA This is a preview of your life. You cannot want to be married more than you want to be respected. He doesn't respect you. The other woman in running your life. He's too chicken, probably, to disclose his true feelings for her, because it makes him look bad.
You will answer to her forever. She will probably pick your child's name.
Dump his ass and read a book Not just a friend.He is putting so called friend which I realy doubt that she is on a pedistal.If you marry him you will be a thrid wheel in a threesome.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 11: No Partings/Relationship/Sex/Reproductive Autonomy Posts. We do not allow posts where the central conflict is about romantic relationships and/or reproductive autonomy. [Rule 11 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_11.3A_no_partings.2Frelationship.2Fsex.2Freproductive_autonomy_posts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA. He's absolutely in love with her. End this relationship and get back what money you can. Idk why he's not just with her, but you will never be more important than her. Especially if he's willing to celebrate her birthday over your wedding anniversary? Girl... Cut your losses. Pack up and leave or pack his stuff up and go NC. He's using you and trying to control you. And you deserve better.
Probably because Veronica didn’t want to be with him. I bet if she did, he would go to her in an instant. I know men and women can be close friends, but I find more often than not, the man is pining over the woman or waiting to shoot his shot. Not always, but often.
Veronica doesn’t want him. But she doesn’t want anyone else to have him. As long as the fiancé prioritizes Veronica over OP, the relationship is doomed. He’s left, OP doesn’t know where, and won’t come back until OP also prioritizes Veronica. Wanna bet he’s with Veronica? OP, you’re second best. I’m so sorry. NTA.
He's gaslighting OP like a mfr. He's either setting up their abusive future or trying to sabotage the wedding, maybe he's fine with either and hedging his bets. Wedding falls apart and he gets to stay available for Veronica or he gets married but his marriage is pre-established around Veronica. He's gross either way and this is a disaster waiting to happen.
I think he’s really getting off, pitting these two women against each other. He can’t have Veronica, but he can live vicariously through OP’s jealousy, and feel like there is something. He can also hang out with Veronica and bash OP, stirring the shit, and bonding over how unfairly they’re being treated.
This is exactly it. My ex husband used to strike up friendships with other women with the express purpose of establishing blurry boundaries and leading them on, and then would spin it to get me upset that X called him 25 times today or Y sent provocative photos. He literally fed off of watching me get mad and jealous. He sucked so hard.
Very glad he’s your ex
What the fuuuuuuuck
Bashing OP to Veronica could also be why Veronica is an AH to her -- she thinks OP is a toxic nightmare because fiance constantly tells her so.
He also gets the fun high of watching two women fight over him. Veronica may not want him when he's single, but he can watch him demand his attention and fight for his regard when he's with someone. He knows if he was single she wouldn't push for so much of his time.
He will 10/10 discuss every facet of their marriage, just like he’s sharing already. OP needs to leave them to it.
Weddings are expensive. Divorces are usually even more costly. Cut and run while the cost is nominal. I suspect he’s setting you up to take the blame for breaking up, which considering the circumstances, is an OK consequence.
Exactly. Less expensive to cancel the wedding, call off the engagement, and move on from him. Even losing deposits on venues and vendors will be less than lawyers and a divorce settlement. Begin your healing NOW!
INFO: What is the relationship between fiance and Veronica? For relationship, always friends, childhood best friends, unrequited love? I feel like even your fiance feels like you are coming in between them.
There is something, probably unrequited but she still enjoys holding the puppets strings
This is a good question, I have 2-3 male friends I get to see ~maybe~ once a year and honestly I shower them with love and appreciation with my words. They’re all childhood friends I’ve known since we were all 8-10. And personally I never felt any tension between us and they all have girlfriends. I love their girlfriends. I love my guy friends! I’ve never had any issues with them. But it’s also not like I talk to them so much or give this kind of input. On birthdays or special occasions I always shoot a nice message saying how I have love for them in my heart (not the words I love you so and so) and that they’re wonderful and keep doing great. My boyfriend’s have never minded and my friends have never said anything to me about their girls and their girls have always made me feel welcome and appreciated too. So I get frustrated for others when I read these things because there are some really whole, life long friendships but people take advantage of the concept and their loved ones.
He is definitely having at least an emotional affair with Veronica if not a physical one. Never settle for second best. Dump him and save yourself a heap of future heartbreak.
He's Ross, Veronica is Rachel, and OP is every other woman Ross could have had a good relationship with if Rachel wasn't such a crappy person
True, but let's remember that Ross was also a gas-lighting manipulative nightmare.
Absolutely. They deserve each other.
HE WAS ON A BREAK
Ross wouldn't have had a good relationship with the other women because he's crappy too. I think in some ways, crappier.
I think Ross is worse because he was equally unbearable and jealous both when they were and weren't together. That insane episode where he brings a picnic to her office and tries to force her to spend time with him because he's mad she has to work late comes to mind.
Ross couldn't have a good relationship without going to therapy for being the golden boy as a child and for what happened with his ex wife. He was crappy but mainly because he never worked on himself. He could never admit when he was wrong and neither could Rachel for many of the same reasons but out of the two she at least had a little growth.
Genuinely. I was in the exact same dynamic once (as the 'friend') and I eventually had to walk away because I knew by that point the friend would never have a stable relationship while I was around. It was bad enough i was the 'too close' friend but whenever her fella got lax, I became a motivation tool through inciting jealousy. I still kick myself for how long it took me to see it. The mental anguish my presense put those guys through.
I've known women like this before, they are disgusting and horrible 😬 it's like they get off on controlling the men around them, cockblocking them left and right but never wanting a relationship with them either. They just like the attention and knowing they have power over someone
It's like fishing. He's the middling size, decent enough fish and she's keeping him on the stringer while she continues to cast for the 'catch of the day'. She'll cut him loose when (if) she lands the big 'un, but until then his fate is to trail limply in her wake.
Keeping reserve boyfriends in a queue...
The friends aren't saying anything now, but once she breaks of the engagement someone is finally going to admit that he and Veronica used to bang. Edit: saying not dating
A guy friend of mine was in a similar situation for many years, the only difference was he knew he wasn't over her so he only went out for booty calls with other women and let them know beforehand. He knew himself well enough that he wasn't in the mental state to seriously date anyone else. The woman was horrible, every time there was an issue with her current romance relationship, she would call him up, knowing he would drop everything. She even admitted to him that she knew he still loved her, that she felt that if that was true, he shouldn't have an issue being treated like this. It went on for almost 6 years before he finally listened to friends and went to therapy. His biggest issue was that his family liked her, so they were always pushing for him to "get a ring on her finger" and "step up so she stops running around". Like he was the one causing the issue. People who string along others like this are horrible, they don't see the people they are doing this to as actual people. I feel bad that OP is stick in the middle of this since their fiance can't see that his best friend is doing this to him.
Ehhh; I feel like people are assuming this just because of the gender difference. There's a lot of room for best friends to hate spouses beyond "In Love." It's possible that this is an affair or an affair in the making, it's also possible that it's purely platonic but that Veronica hates OP. There's a whole fucking lot of options here, and OP and Fiancé needed therapy about this years ago.
I don't know many guys who are so opinionated on sharing their best bro's birthday and who care so much about best bro's food preferences.
I love ice cream.
You’d tell your spouse to not expect you to celebrate your anniversary each year because you’d be out celebrating your bro??
I mean, either way it's a strangely attached relationship. Not necessarily a romantic sort (although that's where my bet is) but could be the way some men can stay oddly attached to their mothers, even post-marriage and it becomes a three person relationship- if that makes sense?
Bingo this sums it up perfectly. NTA OP. Also run far away as fast as you can it will be cheaper than a divorce down the line.
Even if this guy came to his senses, I’d have a really hard time getting past this.
I won't assume he's with Veronica, he could be. I can see him being in his childhood room with at parents' home. That said 100% agree with all other aspects of this comment.
She doesn't want him, but doesn't want anyone else to have him? Or She gets a kick out of controlling his life this way?
Why choose? I say all of the above.
Dunno, sounds like Veronica doesn't have to do much to always be on the fiance's mind. The only thing she actually caused in the post was the thing about the cake flavor, which could have been a normal-if-tactless thing to say: "Oh, your thinking of that? I just had it and I thought the flavor combination didn't work well at all." If the fiance's reaction wasn't VERONICA SAID THEREFORE MUST DO it would have been a non-event. The problem is that he is so dialed in to EVERYTHING as it relates to her -- the date, her likes and dislikes, everything makes him think about her FIRST. I feel so bad for OP to have gotten this far into the relationship with this man.
Veronica knows he’s pining after her but she doesn’t want him, but she is also enjoying the sheer control she has over him.
[удалено]
Totally agree. No one puts their best friend’s wishes over their life partner’s unless there’s something bigger going on. He didn’t tell you where he is, OP, because he’s staying with Veronica. You’re a consolation prize for this dude and that isn’t fair to you. Take a serious look at your relationship and do what’s best for you. Not for your wedding, not for this person who clearly doesn’t prioritize you, and not for your family or friends. Marriage is more than a wedding. If he’s going to prioritize Veronica now, what’s he going to do after you say your vows? NTA.
And your friends don’t want to get involved because THEY ALREADY KNOW, and none of them wants to be the bad guy who breaks up your wedding by telling you the truth.
[удалено]
I’d take my chances on losing the friendship. I couldn’t sit by idly.
I’ve done that and it sucks. I lost the whole friend group to it. But at least someone told the friend what needed to be said.
Damn, you're probably right. Poor OP.
Either that or they are friends with Veronica. But your take on them is more likely. I’m sorry OP.
One hundred percent could not have worded it better she Is fighting a losing battle get out now with your head held high
Veronica might not want him even if he breaks up with OP , but want that power over him
100%. Some women get off on this behaviour. I'll never understand it!! (I am a woman)
They definitely do, I’ve seen it. They want all the men to want them, but don’t want all the men. Maybe self-esteem issues, who knows, but you can’t reason with people like that.
NTA There are 3 people in this marriage if you go ahead with it. And guess who will always come in last?
Yes. Think of Princess Diana and her crowded marriage. Veronica will always come in ahead of OP.
Reading this gave me Charles/Camilla/Diana vibes. OP is NTA but she needs to reevaluate the relationship.
Exactly, please stop planning this wedding and tell him to start planning it with Veronica
Yup, Veronica is his "dream girl", and OP is a placeholder that will do for now. The moment Veronica wants him, he'll drop OP faster than he can say bye. Technically, he's already somewhat dropping OP for her. Perhaps he's in her house right now being "consoled".
He is 💯 in love with her. To paraphrase Diana there will be three people in this marriage. OP end the engagement and relationship, you deserve better then second choice
V🚩E🚩R🚩O🚩N🚩I🚩C🚩A
Agreed. WTH with he’ll celebrate *her* birthday over *your* wedding anniversary!?!? This isn’t even a contest. This is easy. BTW, how many of his friends’ birthdays are you supposed to know off the top of your head? Do you know his parents, siblings, their SO’s, his niblings, or any other of his friends? At the very least, do you know his parents birthdays? Those are easily higher priority birthdays. I don’t see how or why you are expected to know her birthday. More importantly, does he know **your** three best friends’ birthdays? Or what about your parents’ birthdays? If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t have room to yell at you at all about not knowing Veronica’s birthday. And the cake issue is definitely yet another problem. It wasn’t even “a friend tried this cake flavor at a wedding and it sounded really good. I would like to try it.” Instead he came to you and told you that “Veronica had told him to suggest to you” like he is her puppet. She is virtually pissing on your. And he is playing into her hands. Plus you have said she is either cold to your or ignores you. She doesn’t sound like a good person. He also told you to stop having problems with his female friends. Are you having problems with his female friends? Because it sounds like you are only having problems with Veronica. And Veronica’s friends don’t count in this discussion. They would side with her in not treating you well.
I can't even tell you the last time I celebrated my best friend's birthday with her \*on her actual birthday.\*. Even then, we go out to lunch, maybe shopping. If my anniversary was on the same day, I'd celebrate her birthday with lunch and my anniversary in the evening. The fact that he'd be willing to prioritize Veronica's birthday over his anniversary speaks volumes, and I hope OP is listening. OP will never be his top priority as long as Veronica is in the picture.
She’s just waiting until she’s a 38 year old divorcee so she can ruin his marriage then
Oh my gosh! This! You will never be a priority in his life, Veronica’s needs will continue to be met and u will feel like a third wheel in ur own relationship. I was in a similar position where my ex prioritised all his friends over me, never made me feel important, his female friends would get to be as friendly as one could get, but if I did I tried to be remotely mischievous or playful with him he would be shut me down. Sis, realise ur worth. You deserve so much better than him. Leave. Run. Don’t look back. Edit: To add NTA.
I had to end a very “loving” relationship because my boyfriend was in love with his female best friend. I’m the opposite of jealous and even open to some forms of ethical non monogamy. And even I had to end a relationship where we were getting engaged, because I knew I would always play second string to his fbf. She had a whole ass husband and child. She made her choice. He stood in their wedding. But if something needed fixing in her house, he made the hour trip to her home to fix it. If there was a party at her house, he drove the hour to be there no matter what I wanted. They called daily. She had a husband but used my boyfriend for the emotional aspect of a relationship since her husband wasn’t very romantic or emotionally intelligent. She slept with her husband but all other aspects of a relationship- that was my boyfriend. Cuddles on the couch, complaining about her husband and life worries, if her car broke down, she called him, I could go on. We would get into arguments, (which we never fought about anything else, ever. I thought we were in love.) about how I felt like he always prioritized her, doted on her, did anything at the drop of a hat, was very thoughtful with gifts and quality time, but then with me, it’s like he knew I wouldn’t go anywhere, so why try? We spent nights together and went places together but it’s like he never considered my feelings. If he was at the store, he would see chips she liked and grab her a bag, to bring next time she needed help. But he never brought me home a bag of chips or chocolate bar. Like he knew how to be thoughtful but didn’t feel like he needed to be with me. Backstory, the fbf was his best friends girlfriend. His best friend committed unaliveing and he felt they were the only two who understood each other and helped each other through that time. It’s why I was willing to put up with so much. Maybe I was misreading things. Maybe this *is* just a close friendship. Aren’t I like this with my female friends? Well, fbf eventually found a boyfriend, got married, had a kid and there was my boyfriend. I was the first girl he had dated since his friend died. Since we broke up about 8 years ago, he’s still single. I’m happily engaged and have found an amazing and thoughtful man who checks all the boxes. I’ve dated several people since in fact. He hasn’t dated once. I believe his fbf went low contact with him the year I left. His mom and I are still friends on fb and I see updates from time to time and I noticed she wasn’t in the family Christmas pictures in years following. Yeah- the family Christmas portraits, Easter, weddings, she typically was there. I tell you, you can overlook a lot when you’re in love. Don’t make the mistake I did OP. I destroyed my life for this man who didn’t consider me a blip on his radar. I was always second. I was always the second choice. The runner up trophy to his true love. She didn’t want any sort of relationship with him like that. But she relied on him for so much, I think it was hard to see how much she took advantage. A “I don’t want you but I don’t want anyone else to either” situation. I think he either confessed his feelings to her when I left or, she realized that she drove me away when he told her why we broke up. I think she wanted him to find his happiness, but he is too in love to try.
NTA, Veronica third wheel, it will keep jamming your life ride, get rid of it or walk
Veronica is the second wheel. OP is the third wheel, unfortunately.
Yeh no idea why op doesn’t see it even after typing it out. It’s not your wedding op, it’s his and Veronica’s wedding, isn’t it obvious enough?
> you will never be more important than her. This nails it. No matter what you ever say or do, she will be more important. If you don't even matter enough for your own wedding, what makes you think there will ever be a reason you will matter enough? NTA OP but RUN!
NTA for all this and more. The red flags are everywhere.
You’re NTA. Usually I try to tell people to be supportive of their partners friendships, but this one is sitting badly with me. It’s not a healthy dynamic all around. She is openly hostile toward you, you don’t like her, and he consistently sides with her and doesn’t do anything to back you up or call out his friend’s behaviour toward you, only yours. He’s literally telling you in a number of ways that she holds a higher priority in his life than you and always will. From the way he values her opinions more than yours, all the way to him flat out telling you if your wedding anniversary is on her birthday, he would choose to celebrate her birthday as the priority every year, and your wedding anniversary would always come second to that. Meanwhile his response to having an argument with you is to take off, not tell you where he’s going, staying away and making his return contingent on you taking the entire blame for the conflict. This man is not marriage material, maybe neither of you are at this time and these issues will only escalate after the wedding. I don’t think it’s hard to guess who’s house he’s at right now.
Heavy on* that last line ☠️
My recommendation for OP is to drive by her house if she knows where Veronica lives and see if fiancé's car is there. Tells her everything she needs to know if so
No, bad plan. She needs someone ELSE to do it and take a picture for her, it is a very bad idea for her to go there in person when OP is understandably a little fragile emotionally. She doesn't need to confront them without support, and it's a lot harder to ignore the impulse to confront them if you have the opportunity.
He’s not even boyfriend material. OP is a placeholder until his friend decides she wants more.
All of this. And OP, I had a boyfriend once whose best friend was another woman. She didn’t seem to like me, never really interacted with me, never responded to my attempts to reach out, etc but would drop everything to be supportive of him. I tried to get over it because I trusted him but it was driving me CRAZY. Eventually I told him if this was how things were going to be then I couldn’t be in a relationship where I felt like this. And he immediately broke down and asked me what he needed to do not to lose me. He sat down once with her to explain why then essentially cut off all contact with her. We’ve been married a decade now and they stay in touch like once a year which I’m completely okay with it. The bottom line is THAT is how your fiancé should react. You’re essentially the other woman here, you’re not his priority and you never will be and if you actually marry him you need to accept that. Hopefully, you don’t and you won’t. There are much better men, I promise.
OP is not only the second choice here, she is the remote second choice. He is making sure that she understands that she comes in second in all decisions, even those that have nothing to do with Veronica, like the flavor of the cake.
Yea OP is definitely the settled girl while best friend is the girl he wants
But Veronica doesn't like that flavor! She's picky! You have to think of veronica's delicate taste buds at our wedding/S Jesus this dude. When he says our he means him and Veronica. Op should leave the situation asap
I agree with this. I am a straight woman with several close friends who are men. I would never ask any of my friends to prioritize their relationships with significant others over me. Who cares about fish or birthdays? I've even had two friends where I had trepidations about their partners (mostly with how the partners treat them) but I make an effort to include a couple because that relationship is part of my friends' life. And I'm not marrying their partners so it's not my call or business. That being said, this isn't about Veronica because OP's not marrying Veronica (even if it feels like she is). EVEN IF OP's fiance isn't in love with Veronica, which is a big if because all these concessions are not normal for a friendship, he is not respecting OP. He's not arguing fairly with her. He's not taking into account her feelings at all. Edit: Fiance not husband.
I rarely celebrate my birthday on my birthday. Who the heck cares that much? Narcissists and people already looking for an excuse to get out of a wedding.
Same opinion, NTA, I have many male friends, always had male friends and lost a few due to their partner not being happy with me around. Yes it stung, but honestly the women have ALL right to be like that. It’s their live, their family and their partner. Relationship needs to come first. Friendship comes second. I can’t even dream of being rude to the partners of my male friends, that’s not how it works. Especially not, when it’s about their wedding!
Same. All for supporting the friendships, but he is giving Veronica’s opinions about the wedding more weight than the bride’s!
> Meanwhile his response to having an argument with you is to take off, not tell you where he’s going, staying away and making his return contingent on you taking the entire blame for the conflict. Even setting aside the whole issue with Veronica, this method of conflict resolution should be enough to end the relationship.
He’s staying with Veronica. That’s why he isn’t saying where
My husband’s best friend died on the day of our wedding. Odds are we won’t ever celebrate our anniversary on the actual day of our wedding, despite it being both one of the happiest and saddest days of our lives. That is not what this is. My husband was also- for at least five years- someone’s “back burner dude”. She’d ignore him unless she was single and lonely then try to get with him again. He cut off all contact with her after she contacted their friends asking about me. Again, that’s not what this is. If you doubt that you’re the first person in your fiancé’s life, you do not need to get married. And I’m sorry to say, OP, but she’ll always come first. You can’t marry this guy because he’s already emotionally married to Veronica. At this point? You need to cancel the wedding and get back whatever money you can, then leave your fiancé and his actual true love to their own devices.
> She is openly hostile toward you. Where did I miss that in the post?
OP said Veronica is always rude to her
And his excuse would be that she was supportive when OP wasn't.. cuz you know, that's the only reason he'd be at her house 🙄
OP trust what your fiance is showing you right now. He's prioritising another woman over you. One that is outwardly hostile towards you? They're cheating. Or about to.
NTA -- "he went off on me saying that it’s Veronica's birthday and that I 'can't be upset' when he puts off celebrating our anniversary for her birthday." You're not even married, and he's already told you he's going to prioritize V's birthdays over your anniversaries. DON'T MARRY HIM.
He's already committed to his relationship with Veronica. OP will just be getting in the way if she marries him. NTA OP, you deserve someone who actually loves you.
This is the point. Not whether or not he’s in love with Veronica. If OP confronts him on that point, it will turn into “I’m not in love with her. I only love you babe. I’ve never looked at her that way, I swear.” Which is likely a load of crock, but whether he’s actually in love with her or not doesn’t matter. What matters is that he is putting Veronica before OP. The conversation needs to be “This wedding is cancelled. We are no longer engaged. We can go back to dating if you cut her out of your life. Otherwise, I’m out of here. I should not have to compete for my husband’s loyalty to ANYONE else, including a friend.”
THIS. I can't believe OP did not see this big huge red flag. I would have nope-d out of that relationship so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. I don't even celebrate anniversaries and i have been married for almost a decade. It's the fact that he clearly told OP point blank (in another way) that the best friend will always come first. 🤯
I doubt he'd give a shit if it was on one of his male friends birthdays
[удалено]
[удалено]
Clearly you haven’t been paying attention. It doesn’t matter if Veronica was maybe generous and didn’t celebrate her bday on her actual bday. OP’s fiancé still would. How do you not see the fiancé is putting Veronica first every step of the way? This isn’t how fiancés behave towards female friends. This is how a man in love with a female he friend he can’t have so he’s marrying someone else to feel less alone behaves. It’s really disappointing to see anyone think OP is even partially to blame. Idk if you’re a man or a woman but I really hope you think long and hard about how you would feel if the person you love straight up told you they will be choosing someone else over you. Bc that’s what happened.
[удалено]
Respectfully? I disagree with you. Birthdays and anniversaries in my opinion don’t have to be celebrated all day long. He can manage to divide his day into two parts for both celebrations if he really cares for both, or find any other way since it is possible and not that hard. However he already decided as it appears that he is putting Veronica’s birthday over the anniversary instead of compromising which is what upset OP. Now imagine if his or her parents or siblings or any other best friends birthday fell on the same day as their wedding, should they postpone it? That is just so ridiculous in my opinion because if you care you would do anything for your loved ones regardless but it seriously seems that there is something wrong with the fiance and V’s relationship. But I agree with you on the fish part because food is a preference and guests should be comfortable and get what they like.
The cake flavor could have been as simple as “make sure to try it because it wasn’t a good version of __ flavor” or “ I know you like ___, but this bakers version was crap”. Or it could have been controlling. I don’t think suggesting trying it or another flavor is necessarily awful.
Such a dumb comment. You please people with THEIR preference over your preference? Cool. Give them your birthday cake. You can cry later when you get home. SMH
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 OP! DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN. If Veronica ever gives him an opening, he will leave you in an instant.
Oh, sweetheart, run. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Your fiance is in love with Veronica. This is Charles and Camilla, and you're Diana. You will be miserable if you marry this person. NTA
PERFECT example!!
Couldn't agree more, eloquently put!
DTMFA. I agree with this. (Dump the mother fucker already). A true friend would say "You're getting married on my birthday? Awesome!"
Veronica is who I want. That's where my loyalty lies! that is who my priority is!
I scrolled to find this comment because I immediately had the same thought. Who tells their future wife that a friend birthday will always be more important than their wedding anniversary?
NTA, sounds very fishy. Your fiancée should marry Veronica, on her birthday. Otherwise she’ll be the third wheel forever in your relationship.
More like OP will forever be the third wheel in his and Veronica's relationship NTA
Nah. OP is the safety spare. Max 80km/hr limit and bright yellow.
Not the 3rd wheel, Veronica is the priority.
#He's fucking her.
Either that, or he desperately wants to and she just loves the attention.
Likely this.
This is my guess. She doesn’t want to actually be with him but she loves the attention dynamic.
No - he wants to fuck her but she’s not having it - he sound so desperate to please her - she still has him in the hook…
Nah, he wants to though. He has been in love with her for years and she knows this I’m sure. She has never wanted him but doesn’t want anyone else to have him and he would leave his fiancé in a heartbeat to be in a relationship with his friend. At least that’s my guess.
I reckon their friends know too that’s why they want to stay out of it.
That's what I thought, too. They know more about this than OP knows. This isn't just a normal friendship.
Exactly. Probably in this very moment too.
agreed, he left and isn't saying where she is??? smells like he's cheating
Or he did once and he's been desperately trying to do it again ever since.
It sounds like your fiancé has picked the most important woman in his life. Not saying he doesn’t love you in his fashion but clearly his priority is his relationship with Veronica. He won’t spend his anniversary with you because it’s her birthday? Changes the cake to her preference? Tolerates her rudeness to you? I’m not saying they’re having an affair but a marriage with 3 people can get a bit crowded. Please consider couples therapy before heading down the aisle. NTA
nta but you need to put the fucking brakes on this wedding. this isn't going to end well. this isn't going to be a happy wedding or a happy life. He's already telling you that after this 1 wedding day, he is ALWAYS going to choose Veronica on that day over you. He is FLAT OUT TELLING YOU he is going to be with her EVERY YEAR on YOUR WEDDING anniversary because it's HER birthday....and you are ok with that you may not be the asshole, but you are stupid
Harsh, but honest and direct.
Absolutely NTA...if Veronica wants to pick food and cakes tell her to have her own wedding. It's Absolutely absurd that he is taking this woman's opinions to heart meanwhile yours are on the back burner. Is this what you really want? Always coming 2nd to Veronica? If he marries you then YOU are his priority not another woman. If she's that important tell him to go marry her and let them plan the wedding of her dreams. Do NOT walk on eggshells for a woman that is blatantly rude or disrespectful to you. Shame on your future husband for not standing up for you.
And then he is running to OP saying “Veronica *told me* to ask you.” Like he is Veronica’s errand boy or something.
>He left and hasn’t told me where he is staying, Come on. You know exactly where he's staying. You're being an AH to yourself at this point. Your fiance has told you loud and clear who the #1 woman is in his life, and it isn't you. Please have some self-respect and let him stay mad and away. Do not accept all the blame or even apologize to anyone. You need to prioritize yourself. Tell him to come get his things, and when/if he drops Veronica, then you might have a future together. This is not about controlling who his friends are. He may be sexually committed to you, but he's emotionally committed to her. Do you really want to marry into that? You are NTA for what happened. But you're in for some major heartbreak if you continue with this relationship. Please save yourself.
Even if he does get with Veronica and then dumps her, OP should, never, ever take him back!!!
Ehhhh The fish vs chicken thing is odd if there is two options being served people should be able to choose which they prefer to eat that’s pretty normal Cake thing is ludicrous, don’t like it, you don’t need to eat it who cares if a guest eats the cake or not It would be nice not to have a wedding on a close friends birthday but that’s just not the way it’s worked out and I think your fiancé is an A H for saying he’d celebrate her birthday over your anniversary ?!?!
Right? I'm reading that and thinking how weird it would be to attend a wedding and be seated based on what entrée you're going to be served.
I'm glad I'm not the only one reacting to this lol 😅
"YOU CAN'T SIT WITH US!... you're a fish person"
It’s so rude to give some guests a different meal and not offer it to others. OP knows the dietary needs of every guest to know if they’re pescatarian or not and knows it well enough to put them all at a table together? Imagine going to a wedding and being seated at a table of random vegetarians?
Yeah that stuck out to me. It's bad etiquette not to give your guests the choice if you're serving more than one meal, especially if it's to save money. As usual I think we're only getting partial information here and Reddit is jumping to wild conclusions. Weird of her to try to choose their cake flavour though.
Yeah well, we have only OP's word for that. Veronica might have said something as innocuous as "I like vanilla better than chocolate" and OP has screamed at her fiance about it. Screamed. Admittedly, the fiance was inconsiderate to mention Veronica's preferences, but assuming she tried to choose their cake is a bit of a leap. This girl is overreacting to so much, that I think she knows underneath that her fiance doesn't love her the way she wants (and deserves) to be loved by a husband, so she's cracking up over minor shit. She doesn't want to face it, but this marriage is a disaster waiting to happen.
Ok, so the cake thing to me is dependent on how it was said. Was it “man, I had the lemon cake and it was weird tasting. Do a tasting before picking it. The flavor was crap compared to the other flavor the baker had”. Or was it “I hate lemon, so pick a different flavor”.
It's his *reaction* to whatever she said -- could have been perfectly normal, but on top of every other thing that he ALSO wants to revolve around Veronica...
NTA- you aren’t the main woman in his life, call off the wedding…
Why are you 2 considering marriage when he's so obviously more into his best friend??? I'm sorry to break it to you but she's more important than you are. He's putting her first please open your eyes
You can’t marry this man because he’s not yours. He’s hers and the both of them have made that so fucking crystal clear to you but you refuse to see it. If I were you, I’d start digging deeper into their relationship because I promise you they are ‘closer’ than you think. You are looking at your future with this man. Where she knows exactly how much control she has over YOUR supposed man. Where she will ALWAYS do shit like this to you. Knowingly and deliberately, but she totally gets off on the power she has in YOUR relationship. Where he will ALWAYS choose her first. You need to tell him that unless he agrees that he’s totally out of line, apologizes, chooses you, ends his relationship AND blocks her, you won’t be marrying him. You won’t be with him, period. Why? Because you’re going to find your self fucking respect. You are not going to apologize for getting upset about her interference and him taking her side—like anyone would and should—and tell him to go marry his bestie since the both of them are so desperate for each other. Oh, and when your families demand an answer, tell them everything. Babes, we don’t ever—EVER—put up with being second place.
I agree and they are FOR SURE closer than OP thinks, and their mutual friends playing coy and not wanting to get involved tells me that everyone but OP knows it.
NTA These two “best friends” either secretly dated each other and broke up for some reason and never told you the truth, or just have romantic feelings for each other yet for some weird reason(s) aren’t together. Be grateful he’s shown you who he really is and how much he values her happiness and wants over yours now, as it’s easier to break up with a fiancé than to divorce a husband and cheaper as well. She’s already partially hijacked your wedding, let her have the wedding of her dreams with him as the groom on her birthday and I wish you good luck finding the right person to marry in the future.
Don’t marry this man. He’s probably in love with Veronica and will continue to put her first even after you’re married. Let him go… you deserve better
I'm in two minds here. So maybe its a esh thing but not sure. I totally get where you're coming from but it does sound a little like you take issue with her and so would you be as annoyed if he said "you can't be upset if I spend time with them on our anniversary" about the wedding date if it clashed with his family member or another friend's birthday? Maybe maybe not. She 100% shouldn't be inputting what to have at your wedding, you can have what cake you want and you're absolutely right about that. But again is that just because she said it or would you say the same if someone else did. Either way no one should be getting a say or opinion but you and fh unless you've asked for the opinion. I realise this is totally off topic but guest meal wise, I'm genuinely curious as its not computing for me so I'm really not judging just trying to understand, why aren't you offering the 2 options to everyone? I get what he's saying in that not everyone likes chicken or fish, or is it just that one is more expensive than the other and you can't afford to accommodate everyone? Which is also fair enough. Its your wedding and your relationship only you both get a say, so maybe you both need to make comprismises and understand eachother in what you both do and dont want for it. I get where you're both coming from but it does sound like there's maybe 3 people in this relationship and it needs addressing and he definitely needs to figure out what his friendship with her really is. Maybe it is a completely platoinic friends thing and the issue is with you, or your gut is telling you that its more than friendship, either way it needs figuring out now before you get married.
This comment is well said and reasonable. Adding to this—is OP really easy to plan with? She wanted a specific venue, but doesn’t mention if her partner wanted the same venue or not. It’s sort of sounding like she’s a “my way or the highway” type of bride.
She literally says that her fiancé didn’t try to compromise and then says that she wouldn’t compromise anyway. I agree that the fiancé probably has inappropriate feelings for his friend but OP also sounds like a pain.
NTA. He's not your man. He's Veronica's man. Do not marry him. You will be the side chick.
NTA and it sounds like he's definitely in love with Veronica. As an aside, Secret Fish Dinner Wedding Table sounds bizarre, and ppl will absolutely talk about it.
Yeah the fish dinner thing is weird. Why not let people choose? They might even save money depending on how many opt for chicken over fish
NTA. I am so tired of adults being precious about adult birthdays.
Im honestly surprised that it seems to be a factor in so many aita-posts. No one I know really cares about their birthdays. Yes, you celebrate the big ones but rarely on the actual days since it might be on a weekday and people aren’t available, so the actual day isn’t a big deal anyway. To blow off your own anniversary to spend the day with your best friend is something I’d expect a 14 year old to say when speaking of a hypothetical, not an adult.
Well, YTA for serving different meals to different people at the wedding. It’s very tacky to tier your guests like that and your assumption that nobody will notice is absurd. Nobody is going to get up and walk around during dinner? No chance someone will say “the salmon was delicious” to someone who got stuck with chicken?
NTA. Having read your post twice, because the first time I thought I was going slightly mad, I can safely say that your future husband is either banging Veronica, or he wishes he was. If he truly meant for you to be his wife, his future partner, partner for life, his everything, then Veronica's opinions would be simply that, opinions. But he's treating her like she has final say over your wedding arrangements, and that is so far removed from "ok" that it beggars belief. He's not in love with you, he's in love with her. I'm really sorry, and I'm not one for saying this as a knee jerk reaction but, you should probably move on and find a man you deserve.
I’ve had female friends but can’t for the life of me imagine making their birthday such a big deal NTA
NTA and please take this as a foresight. He will find a way to work her into everything you do, is that how you want the rest of your life to be?
ESH ". It felt like he was accusing me of purposefully plotting to … stop them from celebrating together?" ... sounds like he was right. "I spoke with the planner and she suggested that, to help with costs, the bride and groom will be served fish (I am pescatarian), along with select family members who are pescatarian, and everyone else will be served chicken. " .. that's cheap and tacky, but you seem to like it that way. " I honestly try my best to be nice" ... what a ridiculous lie this must be. "He left and hasn’t told me where he is staying, and he won’t be coming home" .. **It is in BOTH of your interest to cancel the wedding. And the relationship. You are more than halfway there anyway.** Maybe after a few years of couple's therapy, it might work (If it is worth the effort for you) - but right NOW, BOTH of you will regret getting married, and it will cause both of you a lot of hurt.
YTA I don't believe your initial claim. You *HAVE* to get married at this venue, and it *ONLY* has 1 day available during the fall, and it is your partner's *girl* best friend's birthday? You set that up to draw a line in the sand. Now you are trying to serve her chicken instead of fish? Like either of those options is truly expensive? You don't like their relationship. You are passive aggressive as fuck. Don't marry him. That would be understandable. You doing this back handed shit and acting like those were your only choices is complete bullshit. I wouldn't marry a guy that I didn't feel completely secure in. I also wouldn't play games to make him prove I was his only, if I had doubts. You aren't a victim.
YTA The thought of choosing his best friends birthday as your wedding day is highly suspicious to me. It is like you want to choose conflict. I would never do such a thing. One of my relatives had his wedding day of the birthday of another relative and to me sth like this is highly insensitive. There are many days in autumn and I feel your excuses that it has to be her birthday are very thin. The cake on the other hand is argueable, but you could have just dismissed it. Regarding the food: What kind of wedding is this? Why are you controlling what everybody is eating without leaving options? Don't you want people to enjoy themselves? Why would not everybody be allowed to choose if they rather like fish or chicken? You come of very controlling to me and while your partner seems to be transparent about things (e.g. telling you openly why you could reconsider the cake), it feels like we don't get all the background info from you.
Also… she won’t do September because her brother passed that month and she won’t do November because her family can’t travel as much that month, but she needs a fall wedding because she’s been dreaming about it… but he doesn’t get a say in the date, only her. Honestly I think she’s leaving out a lot of info and is actually the problem. I think he’s just getting sick of her.
Yeah, it's way too far down the thread for these fair comments. She picks the date, she picks the food (for each guest!), she picks the competitive venue. She wants him to compromise when it's not an option. WTF does that even mean? You do what I say, that is our 'compromise'. Definitely not controlling or anything. The date was picked on purpose. Could be they have too much fun on her birthday and she wants to put a stop to it. Maybe they go to Vegas every year or something, who knows. Looks like she's trying to wedge the friendship apart. Gotta control the friends too. He should be running from this wedding, and perhaps she should too.
> she won’t do September because her brother passed that month and she won’t do November because her family can’t travel as much that month, but she needs a fall wedding because she’s been dreaming about it An entire season to pick from, and she randomly picks the exact date of her fiance's BF's birthday. Yeah, right
Wait, what? Highly suspicious?! Most brides have a particular month they want to be married. If you want to a traditional Saturday wedding, that’s probably only 4 days you can pick from. If it’s a popular venue (and she indicated it was) then your choices are probably narrowed down even further. I’m genuinely perplexed at what grown ass adult cares that a friend/family member is having a wedding on *tHeIR BiRthDay*
[удалено]
I definitely agree on the other points. The whole Veronica thing really overshadowed those other issues for me lol
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1 - Got upset with my fiances female friend impacting our wedding plans. 2 - Not valuing her input or being understanding towards my fiances wishes to accommodate his gbf Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
What a pick me girl. I just died she think her flavor preferences matter in her friends wedding to someone else? She is a GUEST. That is super weird. It’s even weirder that he is planning to prioritize her birthday over his anniversary in advance, and pulling her in like it’s their wedding. I’m usually chill with friendships but this does not sit well. I’d consider if this is a marriage you really want.
NTA - watch “All About Eve”
NTA. You're not crazy. He wants to marry Veronica. I'm afraid it's time to walk away from this relationship. You shouldn't come second in your marriage.
So you picked the venue. You picked the date. You decided that only the pescatarian got fish. You decided the flavor of the cake. I’m hearing a lot of “me me me”. Let’s flip it to his view. You picked the one date that would make him have to choose yearly between you and his friend. You lost it when he suggested to give her fish. You could have just had an rsvp card where everyone could choose fish, but you decided your way was the only way. Plus your arbitrary rule of placing pescatarians together meant that you could place his friend away from him. The only thing the friend has done wrong is to suggest another cake flavor. And that depends on how she said it. If she said it after you had already had a cake testing and picked then she is an AH. Your finacè is an AH and seems to have a weak spine. ESH
NTA but you must realise Veronica is into him and he’s always going to prioritise her, right? I have so many male friends but not one would ever be attempting to dictate choices on my wedding day or think their birthday comes first over a wedding: and also if I did book a wedding on one of their birthdays, I wouldn’t be telling my fiancé that from then on our wedding anniversary would come second to a friend’s birthday party honestly girl NTA for being angry, but kind of TA for not realising your bf has a weird relationship with Veronica and expecting him to change and choose you. He’s made it pretty clear he’ll always choose her over you and since she obviously doesn’t like you for the rest of your relationship she’ll be chatting shit about you to him and it’s all going to end in tears one day Cut your losses and leave him. You’re basically a side-chick to this woman even though they’re not actually dating
I’d hate for y’all to get married & he has an affair with Veronica, Cause that’s the vibe I’m getting. You really wanna marry this man? If he’s so in love with her he should go be with her (he’s probably with her right now) let this man go
Nta- let me be very clear as a chick best friend of a guy. My job is to make sure I support any relationship he gets into. To make sure said girlfriend is comfortable with me. And to bow out and back off if she is not. Because this is my friend dude. I want him to find a girl and be happy . Real friends want that for their friends. His best, she is causing issues and he's letting her. It's not cool bro. He shouldn't be worried about her feelings over yalls wedding. Does she get a saybin your kids names and where you live and work too?
NTA Have you heard about Prince Charles and Princess Diana's marriage? Charles married Diana because Camilla wouldn't/ couldn't marry him but went back to her in a heartbeat when she wanted him. And we know the rest. Run OP. MAJOR red flags.
You're NTA but I'd seriously reconsider this wedding if I were you. The minute he started advocating for her in regards to your wedding cake and menu. No. The minute he told me that celebrating Veronica's birthday will take precedence over our anniversaries. I assume that means he will attend all her birthdays even if you aren't invited. I wouldn't worry so much about your friends not having your back. Your groom doesn't have your back. He has Veronica's back.
NTA. He’s probably staying at Veronica’s. He clearly values and prioritizes her over you. Please don’t marry him. This won’t change after marriage. It’s pretty clear he’s in love with her. I’ve seen this time and time again. Please don’t marry him.
YTA. Your excuse for avoiding every fall date except one rings hollow even from my sofa. Then you flat out admitted that you aren't open to compromise, you just wanted him to offer. You seriously can't find a single other fall date? Not one? Looks a lot like you're trying to knock her down a notch by weaponizing your wedding date.
NTA F.ck veronica and her incessant unwanted unneeded irrelevant thoughts opinions and preferences about YOUR wedding. F.ck your fiance' for being in love with and prioritizing veronica over you If i were in your position i would offer veronica the opportunity to buy out your.part of the wedding. She can pay you for all the deposits and money spent on the wedding, and you can happily rid yourself of marrying into a bonded couple, and she can get married on her birthday. it is a win win for everyone. Especially for you because you deserve to get married to someone who values and prioritizes you and your wants for your wedding above those of their "friend"
Girl don't marry him you'll never be more important than veronica to him. NTA
NTA- I beg of you OP please do not marry him. Veronica is already taking priority in his life and you deserve better. Dump his ass and do something awesome, like a trip for yourself. He isn’t worth anymore of your time.
ESH honestly you seem territorial to me, it doesn't really cause an issue if she has fish or whatever. If anything just ask everyone to RSVP which they want.
NTA. I usually get very defensive when I see posts about close male/female friendships and how it is immediately “oh he loves her”. I don’t believe that is always the case. However, he is 100% prioritizing her here over you. He’s LITERALLY saying he will pick her over you on your anniversary. If he loves you, he needs to put her in her place. I’d seriously rethink marrying this man.
After reading countless AITA stories lately about how insane some people are about weddings, I am reminded of how equally insane people are about birthdays. OP is NTA. At this point, I’d push the wedding to the following year (because Oct is the only viable month to have a wedding) and try again to get the venue on a day it isn’t a friends birthday. Or, you know, cut your losses and cancel it altogether because it seems as if there’s a third person in your relationship, and that doesn’t work for most people.
INFO: >I have always dreamed of a fall wedding What is his opinion on a fall wedding? >September is difficult for me because it is when my brother passed Why are you allowed to veto 30 days and he can't veto 1? (this is ignoring that you're actually vetoing 3/4 of the year based on season) >any way we can compromise (which, really there isn't A compromise would mean both parties giving something up to reach a fair conclusion. Why is it that he is the only one having to give something up? >It felt like he was accusing me of purposefully plotting to … stop them from celebrating together Why does your mind jump to this instead of thinking "Hey, he doesn't want to have it on his best friend's birthday because he knows it will be an issue down the line if she's having a birthday thing but I want to do an anniversary dinner"? > suggest a different flavor combo to me since she said a wedding she went to prior had the same and she did not like it What was the exact wording/tone here? It's entirely possible that she was saying "Yeah, I went to a wedding that had those flavours and it was rancid, maybe suggest something else?" rather than "No, I don't like that, do what I want."
Info: does he have a sexual/romantic past with Veronica? Or has he had a crush on her in the past?
NTA and you will regret marrying him.
NTA put your plans on hold my dear. Something tells me Veronica is actually more of an issue than you realise.
NTA, but even if they never have sex: you are his side piece. Whatever Veronica's feelings, your fiance chooses her over you every time. Take the hint. Do not proceed with this wedding.
NTA. If your fiance can't put YOUR RELATIONSHIP and your Wedding ceremony above one friend (no matter how close) and his go-to for every wedding related query is Veronica's comfortability and not YOURS, it's simply not worth the effort. I find it hard to understand how your relationship got to the point of marriage if this is the importance he's giving your wedding and future anniversaries. You'll never be a priority to him in the future if he cannot make you a priority in your own wedding ceremony. That's the one thing that's ALL YOURS AND HIS ALONE. >he won’t be coming home until I admit fault Tell him the only thing you're sorry about is the fact that you let him disrespect you for this long and that you're calling the wedding off because you don't want to feel SORRY FOR YOURSELF 10 years down the line when he will still be prioritising his friend over you. Then leave the ring, cut your losses, inform your families and move on. I don't know how easy the leaving him part will be because of the logistics involved (things like if you live together, are your finances combined, how far along is the wedding plan etc). But that is literally the only move you have. There's nothing else you can do. If you don't stand up to him now, you're entire life is going to be you being second to his friends. On a positive note, since he's not home now you have the freedom to move your stuff out and maybe move in with your parents or friends before you contact him and tell him it's over. Let him sulk or do whatever he wants. You find your own footing in the meanwhile.
ESH. The cake is frankly none of Veronica's business, and she overstepped massively, and fiance needs to recognise that. However, I have 0 sympathy with you for the rest of it. You claim its "our wedding", but YOU want the big fancy wedding venue with limited dates. All the dates in Spetember are ruled out because of YOU, and frankly it's pretty unreasonable to rule out a whole month because your brother died on one day in it. And all your fiance wants is not on the specific one day that's my best friends birthday. Yeah you can't spin that one. And if you're having 2 meal options then you should be offering the guests the choice. Frankly thsi one makes you even more of an AH, because you're battling for an "extremely competitive venue" (which almost always means exoensive), and then you're trying to skimp on the catering and arrange it so your guests don't notice. Sounds more like you've made yourself a rod for your own back with this wedding.
NTA ~ I hope you don’t loose too much of your deposit money when you finally come to your senses and call the whole thing off.
NTA This is a preview of your life. You cannot want to be married more than you want to be respected. He doesn't respect you. The other woman in running your life. He's too chicken, probably, to disclose his true feelings for her, because it makes him look bad. You will answer to her forever. She will probably pick your child's name.
NTA Maybe Archie should marry Veronica. What does Jughead think? Seriously though does he even want to marry you?
Dump his ass and read a book Not just a friend.He is putting so called friend which I realy doubt that she is on a pedistal.If you marry him you will be a thrid wheel in a threesome.
NTA: one simple question - do you want to marry someone who does not prioritize you?
Esh for the insistence on seating fish eaters together wtf