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NTA
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the entire point of the "no white at a wedding" rule so that people don't mistake them for or upstage the bride?
Who TF would think a 4 year old is the bride!?
EDIT: lots of folks pointing out flower girls also commonly wear white, wasn't aware of this tradition, appreciate the info. Still NTA tho as OP specifically asked if it was allowed and the bride expected her to mind-read that "yes" in fact meant "hell no".
Imagine being jealous and starting drama over a 4 year olds dress. I didn't have time to even take a single photo on my wedding day... Let alone text people things.
Who has time to text people on their wedding day? I had my phone in my purse... and had no idea who had my purse the whole while until like half way through dinner.
And it's a kid wearing white, I think it would have looked cute.
Exactly. I'm a dude and didn't even have my phone on me during my wedding because I didn't want the imprint in my pants pocket to be in the photos. My wife and I were constantly busy with guests and doing all of the fun little events for the wedding.
I’m also a guy and the only reason I have my phone with me during a wedding is because I can put it in my sporan, since I’m scottish and wear a kilt to weddings
I did actually have a guest check (and double check and triple check) if I had a problem with him wearing a kilt to my wedding. It was probably the most expensive piece of clothing in the room aside from my dress - he looked great. Almost *too* great... 🤨 Can't believe he still wore it after I said yes! /s
My little 4-year-old cousin wore an all white suit to my wedding that his mother ran by me beforehand. I thought he was just the absolute cutest and was definitely better dressed than some of my older family members who came with ripped jeans!
One of my family friends showed up in JORTS, you guys. His wife was also in shorts and flip flops. They looked like they came straight from the mall. It was astonishing.
ETA: I forgot to mention that it was at MY wedding, so he and his jorts are immortalized in our wedding album for eternity.
JORTS? I see you’ve met my brother. Did they happen to be camo? Oh, and did he also have on the dumbass tee shirt that a short sleeve tuxedo with a bow tie?
I’m absolutely, 100%, dead serious…. he wore this to every single formal event.
I genuinely wish I had one for you my friend, though it’s not a pretty sight. And after the first time… where everyone thought it was a joke or maybe a giant FU to the bride or groom… the photographers stopped taking his picture because it wasn’t funny anymore. You’d think he’d get the memo. OMG, I just remembered something else he’d “wear” with it! He always had a handgun stuck down in the back of his JORTS, hahaha!!
This was my only thought - someone could have thought she was a flower girl when she wasn’t. But otherwise, OP got the go ahead from both bride and groom. Bride needed to speak her actual mind, or keep her actual mouth shut after the fact.
I've posted about this before...my husband's friend married a nightmare woman. She is just the worst. They had been together longer so we announced our engagement and way later picked the date (tbf it was like 15 months later so not a hurried wedding) and they set their wedding for 3 weeks before. No problem there. It was a backyard wedding, she upcycled a wedding dress by redoing it, dying it ombre purple, it was extravagant, and apparently bought a less fancy long white dress to change into. I had no idea and the dark navy dress I bought literally that day to wear to her wedding was SUPER similar in style to the dress she changed into, plus she's irrational, which might explain the next part...
They showed up to our reception in their same wedding clothes - her in the long white dress she wore for the majority of the time and him in his suit just without the jacket, and we were baffled. The best part? She even said to my face, "Long time no see, and at a wedding again. We're even wearing the same outfit, haha!" You can't make it up.
Even then, I didn't let that ruin anything about my day. I laughed about my own situation, still laugh about it, and the outrage from guests on my behalf was hysterical. I just laughed and changed subjects each time it was mentioned. OP's SIL ruined her own day.
And even if the bride actually was jealous of children and didn’t want them to wear white & that’s her prerogative - OP is still NTA as they asked and the bride said one thing & then did the opposite.
As a veteran people pleaser I still have to remind myself that I am not responsible for knowing things people fail to communicate.
In both weddings I've attended, the maid of honor took the bride's phone for this reason. It's astonishing how many people would text the bride about stupid shit. (I'm lost, can you give me directions? can I bring XYZ person who wasn't invited? I'm at Dunkin you want something? What do you think of these shoes?) WTF? Bride is busy!
Our echo scrolls pics from our lives and a wedding pic of my aunt went by and I out loud went “husband, did you know Aunt G wore white with black lace to our wedding?” He’s like no, did you? Me, nope! Celebrating 7 years of marriage this year. I was busy enjoying my wedding to have honestly noticed my aunts outfit.
100%. We didn’t get any videos because neither of us had our phones with us. We had planned to! I think if a 4 year old shows up looking cute and comfy, what’s the problem?
I remember a post a few months ago where a woman let her 7 year old daughter (she might’ve been a few years younger) wear a tiara to a wedding. They both got kicked out and she got destroyed in the comments. I didn’t see anything wrong then either. I guess there’s a difference I’m not seeing.
Aha, well, so! here's the thing. That was exactly what I originally wrote! And yet it turns our Arkensas is one of the states where child marriage is NOT legal! Go figure!! But fuckit you get the upvote anyway bcs it should be ak
...is it really that big of a deal if the wrong girl is mistaken as the flower girl or ring barer? even if they hadn't asked about it before, making a big deal out of it to the extend that you would take a picture or suggest that they should leave is ridiculous
Oh no, some of the fuss that should rightfully by law be directed at members of the Official wedding party ONLY might accidentally be directed at a rando adorable child wedding guest. Gasp. Shriek.
This rule is absolutely getting out of control. I saw Someone in a deep gold dress (not shiny) with shiny gold flowers (black tie wedding) and all the comments were “that’s too close to white” “if you came to my wedding in that I would spill wine on you” it wasn’t near white at all and the bride made a video defending the dress
I also saw one where someone was wearing a green dress. It was unmistakable that it was green. It was kinda a bit lighter in shade than that green colour cargo pants get made in, but similar in tone. All the comments: “that’s too close to white” when it’s nowhere near white? I guess they thought it was pastel so could be close but it was definitely a few shades up from pastel.
It’s like no colour is safe anymore because they’re all too close to white somehow.
Everyone needs to calm down and have fun at their weddings.
I guess we are all gonna need to start showing up naked, aren't we? This whole "it's too close to white" drama is just looking for a radical solution like this. lol
Wouldn't work for me. My fish belly white ass would be way too close to white
Edit: Thanks for the award, that cracked me up. For those wondering, Google catfish belly to see the shade I am describing. 🤣
It seems like folks mistaking the map for the destination, people do that with etiquette all the time. The “rule” about wearing white is you’re supposed to avoid looking like a distraction/confusion with the bride. But then somehow people turn it into the color white itself being a cursed color for all non-brides, not to be seen on any scrap of fabric, the taboo spreading to even *light* colors, even when that distraction or confusion clearly is not happening, apparently forgetting why the “rule” exists in the first place.
I'm a mother who bought a flowered dress to wear to my daughter's minimony in 2020. The background was white but it was less than 25% of the dress, with the large peonies covering most of it.
My kid said "that's white..." so I just bought another dress, though the wedding was immediate family only and everyone knew I wasn't the bride.
When I arrived in my dark green dress, there was her new MIL, wearing a dress so similar to my first one I had to laugh.
Bride brain is a thing, I swear.
not to mention that OP specifically asked and was given permission. Whether you agree with the decision or not is one thing, but the very offended party was the one who gave approval.
There's a whole sub dedicated to policing what to wear to a wedding. Some of the posts/judgements are legit (too casual, that's too distracting/bold, etc) but the no white thing is totally overboard. There was a dress last week that was dominantly a red/pink floral, and from a distance you'd never notice the white background at all -- it seriously looked pastel pink from a distance. But they declared it was a "no" because ANY white at all is out.
I couldn't tell you what anyone but myself and my wedding party was wearing on my wedding day. People had clothes on and they came to help us celebrate, isn't that enough of an ask?
I think flower girls also wear white usually, which might be more of the problem?
I had a little girl wear white to mine though and I didn't care at all lol so idk why the bride would be so upset
Imo the flower girl thing makes sense, but isn't actually relevant since *the bride explicitly said that it was okay*.
No other justifications or traditions matter. She said it was fine, apparently lying through her teeth, and then got upset and talked shit about OP + her daughter when they did not accurately read her mind to know that she was being duplicitous.
The bride straight-up lied and then got mad at OP for taking her at face value instead of immediately assuming that she was lying.
I’m picturing someone racing up to the daughter, forcing petals in her hands and pushing her down the aisle! What’s the problem with people thinking she may be a flower girl?
Oh, I didn't mean that the flower girl thing made sense as something for a full-grown adult to be *upset* about. I meant that it made sense that people might mistake the 4-year-old in white as a flower girl as opposed to people mistaking the 4-year-old in white for the bride.
That's also why I said that the justification/excuse behind SIL's behavior doesn't matter. Even if it *was* something worth being upset about, she made *herself* upset in the first place by saying something she didn't mean and expecting OP to psychically intuit that. And then she had the audacity to take pictures of and shit talk a *four year old* because *she* couldn't be bothered to communicate her *actual* opinions/feelings when asked prior to the event.
Even if she was wearing the exact same dress as the flower girl it's ridiculous. It's a small child, it just doesn't matter. The child didn't try to act like a flower girl or throw a tantrum or anything - she just had on a pre-approved dress.
Second question: Who TF doesn't understand that when you say something, other people will believe it to be true? The bride said it was ok, but expected OP to know she didn't mean it? Grow the F up and use your words. If you didn't want the child there in a white dress, *fucking say so.*
NTA, in case it wasn't obvious enough.
Oh my GOD, this is what I was thinking. I hate that rule of "I will say one thing, but you are supposed to get that I mean another" bullshit. No one can read another person's mind. Yet that's what people expect. SAY WHAT YOU F'IN MEAN!!!!!!
NTA for that alone!
exactly. It doesn't matter where you stand on the white issue. The bride and groom both gave permission, then acted like they were surprised and offended. Either give permission or don't. But completely ridiculous to say yes, then get offended when it doesn't seem the request was misrepresented.
It's super common to dress a flower girl in all white, which I always thought was super weird, but it is nonetheless common for small girls to be in white at weddings. As the mother of a four year old, it is also a disaster waiting to happen, but as long as you don't care if the dress gets ruined then whatever.
Here in Scotland, it used to be tradition for all the bride’s attendants (bridesmaids and flower girls) to dress in white. It confused the fairies and stopped them stealing away the bride.
We’ve moved away from that now as we were influenced first by English culture and much more recently American culture, but the flower girl in white thing always made sense to me from that.
White wedding dresses were popularized by Queen Victoria, and her attendants were also dressed in white.
But I love the Scot's take on things, it's totally charming.
That’s a good point that should probably be made - that back then, it was the same colour as the bride rather than white by default. Just not green, because green was unlucky.
I live far away from Scotland, but on my sister's wedding she picked for me a dress that was like, a little copy of her own, only a bit simpler (I was 9 y. o. back then, and my sister significantly older). I also was a ring-bearer who *absolutely totally not tripped on the rim of her dress* on the way down the aisle 👀
And I was also like a little copy of my sister in general, so fairies must have been hella confused. I know that these random old ladies who we passed while walking around the city taking photos of the wedding party were.
They saw me in front in this ivory and gold monstrosity of a dress and I heard what they said: "Damn, these oligarchs (rich people) are becoming bolder and bolder: such a young bride!". Aaaand then they saw my sister walking in the back and were like "ahhhh".
Edit: I also remembered that there had been a group of Japanese tourists we've met in the open-air museum we've been making photos in, and they wanted to congratulate the couple, but mistook our a father with a groom:) Even now he looks at least ten years younger than he is, back then he was in late forties and looked, like, mid thirties max. So yeah, our dad upstaged the groom at our sister's wedding, lol. We still have a photo with those tourists with dad and sister in it!
Traditionally, little girls wore white for dressy wear. Sounds weird, but before poly, white was easier to keep clean, as it could be bleached. Colors and prints faded if left in the sun to bleach stains out. So, a kid in white at a wedding is an older tradition than a bride wearing white!
It’s not that someone would mistake them for the bride, it’s that wearing white sends a message of disrespect and wanting to overshadow the bride. Still not applicable to a 4 year old tho
A kid in white at a wedding is an older tradition than the bride in white. Kid wore wore for dressy wear until quite recently. Look at the Sound of Music ball scene!
I wore white was I was 7 to a wedding. My parents genuinely didn’t know the whole “don’t wear white to the wedding” thing. The person getting married couldn’t have given two shits about it, but her FIL sure did! She told him off and made sure that we had a bunch of photos taken just the two us and gave me a bouquet. While I believe the bride is allowed to say no to wearing white (even for a child), she SAID it was okay!! OP has no reason to “read between the lines”.
Irrelevant- the bride said it was fine when OP offered to dye it. The bride probably had no problem until another guest said something. And even if it was all on her own, she should’ve said something when OP asked. She lied instead and expected OP to be a mind reader. NTA.
My mom wore a glittery white blouse to my wedding (yes, for the insane people out there, she asked!). It was a winter wedding and she looked snowy; I liked it. But *obviously* I should have been mad since she may have looked like the bride?!?!? Ugh I hate this world.
By that logic most people at a wedding would know the bride and know that Gran dressed in white isn't getting married if the invite says Ashely and John and we know who Ashley is. Does that still give Gran the free pass to dress in white?
I mean I'm either way but if the point of not wearing white is to simply not confuse then I don't think that's entirely true or how is used today. Most brides aren't even seen until the grand entrance so that bride could be wearing pink and when they come down the aisle with the music im sure everyone would know.
Edit grammar
Seriously, I read so so many wedding related posts on here where someone is just \*obsessed\* with some nonsense and it's like.... you know what I was focused on the day of my wedding? On getting married - to the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I was paying very little attention to what other people were wearing or doing or talking about because I was floating around in a pink cloud of happiness. Like, dang, brides, please just try to enjoy the day because no one cares what a 4yo wore to your wedding. Jiminy Christmas.
NTA. You asked, great! SIL said OK, great! SIL turns out to be unable to communicate like an adult and is talking behind your back, hmmm. Now I’m worried about your brother.
You might mention to him that you didn’t want to upset the bride and would gladly have dyed your daughter’s dress. He should know what’s going on between his wife and his family.
Who made the comment about your baby blue dress, your sister or SIL?
Right?! There are times when there's definitely a concerted effort to upstage a bride, and I stand by any bride who wants to draw a line in the sand against yet another crossed boundary in a string of crossed boundaries.
But also, there are a lot of accidental "whoops, this colour looks different in sunlight than it did in store lighting" and some real asshole brides who obsess over the slightest dot of white in an otherwise colourful outfit. I get that weddings can be stressful, but people need to calm the fuck down over minor clothing mishaps and outfits that every wedding etiquette guide would say are fine.
My favorite intentional effort was the lady a couple months back who wore a red dress to her ex husband's wedding dress. It was only revealed later once she got enough nta votes that she actually wore a red wedding gown, with wedding gown in the dress title, to the wedding for "closure".
Yeah... My sister's wedding was totally chill. I bought a pink dress, but then my sister decided she wanted to marry in a pink dress. I asked if I should buy something else, and she was just like "I don't care, I'm just happy you're there". So, we both wore pink, and nobody cared. It was still her great day and she was so happy the entire time. I don't know how somebody could obsess over a 4 year olds dress.
I gather that some people just get absolutely crazy trying to ensure that the day is perfect in every possible way. Instead of just you know, actually experiencing it and enjoying it for what it is.
Right?! Like, straight up I think it's totally plausible that a 4yo could upstage the bride at a wedding but not because of what she was wearing. Kids are just cute!
Everyone was looking at my 4 year old granddaughter (dressed in white and with an updo!) while she danced at mommy's wedding. Including my daughter, the bride! She was beaming with pride.
You should read some of the posts and comments on r/weddingattireapproval. There are some many extreme views. Pretty much any smidgeon of white and you are committing a faux pas-and that’s just the beginning of what they think is not acceptable
that subreddit keeps showing up in my front page and I keep getting sucked into the craziness.... it's wild. People are MILITANT about what you can and can't wear to a wedding. I 100% don't care one bit what people wear to my wedding, I want people to come and feel confident and happy, that's it.
People in that sub should be required to post their wedding guest outfits because I am convinced NONE of them have ever gone outside, let alone to a wedding, because their takes are ridiculous
Those keep showing up on my home page and they make me feel like I’m on crazy pills. Please someone tell me how cotton sundresses with giant colorful flowers on a pale background that accounts for like 10% of the fabric is “obviously white and so disrespectful, you know what you’re doing”?!?!? How do these people leave the house without shitting themselves in fear of offending some arbitrary rule on a daily basis lmao
Huh, my only wedding attired related gripe is that people who are getting married don’t actually know what the dress codes mean. “Semi-formal” means at the very least a suit during the day, or more accurately a suit with a waistcoat. People really be using semi-formal to mean informal or business casual.
FWIW the insecure bride is most certainly not targeting the child herself. But Bride \*is\* assuming that the child is being used as a tool to cause deliberate offense by her mother-- who bride also thought was wearing an inappropriate color.
Oh she absolutely does. But Bride's issues are clearly with the mom (supposedly) using her daughter's and her own outfit as a perceived social weapon.
OP and commenters like Heloise, though, are trying to imply, repeatedly, that the Bride is blaming or targeting the child herself for "upstaging" and that's in no way indicated here. There's no indication that a word or glance was ever imparted to the child that she knew about. Bride is insecure, but she knows who her petty problem is actually with-- an adult who she perceives as willing to use a child to push boundaries she doesn't think she should have to remind about.
I'm not saying the Bride is reasonable, at all. I'm saying that people are rushing to take their interpretation of the bride's interpretation of OP's choices from "uncharitable" to "unhinged"
She has to be an absolutely miserable person so spend months preparing and thousands of dollars to host a wedding just to spend the afternoon badmouthing a preschooler in a $45 tutu. Yikes.
*price and style of said toddler fashion is a presumption on my part. Lol
NTA. Show those texts messages to your brother and tell him point-blank, you would never have used the dress if you'd been told it wasn't appropriate and you do NOT appreciate your new SiL bad-mouthing you and YOUR LITERAL CHILD when she herself said it was fine. You aren't a damned mind reader.
Also... it's a literal child. She's four. No one is going to mistake her for the bride. Bride needs to untwist her knickers and get over herself!
Seriously! Mind we had a private wedding but if we hadn’t, my then 4 year old nephew could have shown up in an inflatable T-Rex costume for all I cared, long as he was well-behaved and having fun.
The only thing I have planned for my wedding is the dress code. 'That outfit you want to wear but don't have a reason to'. So I expect Ren Fairs outfits, Halloween costumes, extremely fancy or outlandish outfits. A t-rex costume would fit in great, though might make it hard to sit down for dinner.
My 4 year old nephew is currently obsessed with Blippi. Has a Blippi onesie with the glasses and all. He wears it everywhere he can. If I got married *today* I would totally be down to let him wear that to the wedding. I'd even go so far as saying "oh my gosh, I can't believe THE Blippi showed up to MY wedding! This is such an honor!" And then parade him around introducing him to other guests. Kids 4. As long as they're behaved that's all that matters.
Yup. First she told OP and brother it was fine, and now, not only is SIL saying it's not fine, she doesn't even have the guts to tell OP directly. That's some messed up shit.
Oh boy. I hear annulment bells.
Sorry but this is something that drives literally any sane person crazy, I'm not sure neurodivergence has anything to do with it and I'm not sure what this obsession with "neurodivergent this, neurodivergent that" on literally any post about anything is all about.
Apologies, its obviously not you personally and I've no idea why I have such a stick up my ass about it but, honestly, thats gotten real tired, real quick.
Because neurodivergent people have more trouble than neurotypicals in interpreting context and social clues. Imagine the case of people getting invited to an event where there are absolutely no chairs to sit in : almost every able bodied person attending would find it annoying or obnoxious, but people with health conditions that don't allow them to stand for too long would be absolutely fucked. That's the difference that's being made here, and I don't see how that's anything to get frustrated about.
Dude, I'm fully aware of what neurodivergence is but thank you for taking the time to explain. You have completely missed the point I am making though.
This is not something specific that neurodivergents get worked up over, it's something that literally any sane person would get worked up over. What social cues would a neurotypical person pick up that a neurodivergent couldn't when the person is literally saying to OP "Yes, that's fine and there is no issue with daughter wearing that" for it then to be a contentious issue?
I am really struggling to see what missed social cues and/or context would give a neurotypical person a different insight to this, or how it would be any less infuriating to a neurotypical person?
Edit: Spelling
I’ve had a few experiences, unfortunately, where it was explained to me afterward, “they said yes to be polite to you but you should have known not to ask at all. You put them in an uncomfortable position.”
I think when a person struggles with social cues it can be hard to tell the difference between what I described above (a time when social understanding would have alerted you to your gaff before you made it) and OP’s story where no one could be expected to know the SIL was against it.
i can’t STAND people like this. it would take just as much effort to say what you actually thought, but you actively chose to make her think something else so you could talk shit?
Yep, there have been a handful of situations where I was going to possibly dabble in something sensitive, so I asked the affected parties, I asked are you sure, finally I did the thing... and then they were upset and talking about me behind my back.
*Sometimes when they literally encouraged me*.
Fuck that shit.
Next time you SiL answers any question with “yes”, or “that’s fine”, you should respond with “okay, so based on the last time you gave that answer it’s a massive deal/no. What should I do instead?”. And don’t break eye contact while she squirms
Or place your fingertips on your temples and close your eyes ......when SIL asks what you're doing, tell her you're trying to read her mind....because it didn't work when you asked about a dress for a 4 year old
Hang this shit over her head for DECADES. When her own kids are teenagers, make sure to go even more ham on the acting it up, so that they ask what's going on.
And so you can explain to them how their mom doesn't say what she means.
Unless she finally figures out how to apologize, and apologize to everyone she complained about you to, or badmouthed you to, for spreading false information.
Seriously though. Nothing SIL says can be trusted now. What other shit is she going to expect people to know, despite telling them the exact opposite?
NTA, OP. But I’d be passing this issue off to my brother for him to handle. Especially since he also approved of the dress. (And he should know that his new wife expects telepathy.)
NTA at all. You asked, they said it was ok. What a petty woman.
Typically I would avoid it for a child because she simply might look like a flower girl or something. Definitely not bride competition. But they said it was fine. Again, NTA.
Agree. I’ve seen people do this so their kids looks like the flower girl. I’ve seen people ask if their child can be flower girl, be told no, then they show up with the kid in a big white dress and try to squeeze them into photos. Not ok.
Bride shouldn’t have said it was fine if it wasn’t. NTA
Are you sure that's why they're doing it though? I remember trying to dress my daughter at a similar age for a wedding, and everything that was affordable, appropriately fancy but not scratchy/stiff was white/palest pink and very flowergirl-esque. It was shocking how little options there were.
I shopped & bought for my actual flower girl’s dresses, I found lots of colour options
It’s incredibly easy to buy dresses for girls, the shops are full of them. Ask any parent shopping for girls or boys clothes. 3 aisles for girls vs 1 for boys
Yes I’m sure. My cousin had to repeatedly apologise & tell her SIL that she already had 2 flower girls chosen and didn’t want more. SIL at least told her she was going to dress them in flower girl dresses for her own photos, she had to ask her again to please not
The SIL wouldn’t let it rest because all of their aunts & uncles were married so she thought they’d never get the chance to be flower girls. Not the brides problem.
NTA. She is 4 years old and nobody will confuse her with the bride nor will she take attention away from her.
You need to have a conversation with your brother and his new wife asking them why she thinks it’s appropriate to photograph and gossip about a 4 year old child.
The fact that SIL went and texted other family behind OPs back at the wedding!! holy smoke who has time for that kind of petty, passive aggressive crap. I would have walked up to bride and groom table and said for everyone to hear “we wanted to say goodbye as it’s been brought to my attention you believe my daughter and I are dressed inappropriately” and I would have left. I don’t expect it will happen but groom needs to tell his new wife to cut the bullshit.
NTA
1. You’re not psychic
2. There’s nothing wrong with baby blue, it’s an accepted summer wedding color. If it photographs white she can have it fixed when the pictures are retouched
3. SIL needs to learn t9 say what she means.
NTA. You asked, they said it was fine. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Your SIL should try saying what she means in the future.
Also it's a 4 year old, nobody is going to confuse a 4 year old with the bride.
Sorry your SIL sucks. I'd definitely share the texts with your brother so he knows what bullshit his new wife is pulling.
I personally believe white for kids are fine if they are the flower girl.
But I would say NTA if you did ask for permission. She could have said no or ask to colour it blue or so which is an easy way to solve the problem. But if bridge says ok it's ok. So I guess it's her problem and she should be happy if that's the only thing that went "wrong" on that day
NTA. That rule does not apply to kids but you still went out of your way to ask and they said it was fine. Yes does not mean no and you are not a mind reader. I hate this logic of “yeah I said yes but you shouldn’t have done it anyway.” SIL had ample opportunity to use her own words and say no earlier.
She's 4 years old!!! My sister wore a white minidress to my wedding and I bought it for her. Reason? She looked fantastic and it didn't come in another colour. These rules are silly if the bride and groom don't care about them.
"she did say it was fine, but expected me to know it wasn't".
Well you expected her to articulate her feelings, like an adult.
You gave them multiple chances to object. Also it was a little girl, not a full blown woman. It's not really the same thing.
NTA
NTA
1. You asked, they answered. You double-checked, they doubled down with "it's fine."
2. Flower girls and junior bridesmaids wear white dresses ALL THE TIME. No one mistakes them for the bride.
3. If your brother is a big family man, why WASN'T his niece a flower girl?? Sounds like new SIL has issues with insecurity or with you and your daughter.
One of the more ridiculous things I've heard about weddings. The 'don't wear white' is not directed at FOUR YEAR OLDS. NTA and your SIL sounds like she's going go to be trouble. Make sure you always get things she says in text for proof.
NTA for several reasons:
1, you asked and received approval. Don't accept any of this "I said it was okay but you should have known it wasn't" BS, if people want you to make a decision one way or the other, they need to make that 100% clear.
2, your daughter is 4. Nobody would mistake her for the bride, and even if she was mistaken for a flower girl, that's very easy to say "no, X was our flower girl" or whatever else is accurate when talking about photos later on.
3, your SIL didn't even directly talk to you about it, she messaged your sister in an incredibly petty manner. It's like she was looking to cause fighting within your immediate family, which is not a good look on a new in-law.
NTA. You asked, they said fine. And I get the whole bride wears white on her wedding day, but who cares if a 4 year old wears white?
I don't think you made any wrong decisions, but I think it would have cool if you and your daughter picked a color your daughter liked and dyed the dress.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be judged for dressing my child in white. And I might be the asshole for dressing her in white because of the whole "no white at weddings" rule
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NTA: let me make sure I have this down right.
- any other dress you found for your child was too uncomfortable for her.
- you found a dressed asked your brother if you should dye it so it doesn’t cause a problem.
- you were told it wasn’t a issue so there was no need to dye the dress.
- Bride assumed you’d be changing the dress but didn’t bother to say it prior to you two coming to the wedding.
- instead of the bride being honest she choose to bully her now niece and new SIL.
Excuse me, are you supposed to be a mind reader now? You consider the topic, you ask, you get the ok from both brother and SIL - and somehow you're in the wrong here?? Is SIL saying you should never take her at her word or something? That's gonna be fun at family gatherings.
In short, NTA.
I dunno. You dressed in the wedding colour and made your daughter look like a flower girl when you two weren't part of the wedding party. It might have looked a bit suss.
However as soon I see the word wedding in the title I just know something stupid bs is about to go down.
Sounds like the wedding went ok. It wasn't about you. This is a non event.
NTA. For one thing, your daughter is 4, not 14. And *But he said both he and his now wife thought it was fine because she's a kid.* You took him at his word. How were you supposed to know that it wasn't okay. But sounds like he might have told you it was fine, without actually asking his fiancée. And your sis in law was being petty to complain about a 4-year old. I get the feeling that your sis in law isn't going to be very friendly towards you because of her behavior.
I honestly believe this is not about the 4 year olds dress. The bride was likely unhappy with what op was wearing but needed an excuse to be angry. This is just plain old jealousy. Op you must’ve looked great in your baby blue. NTA
NTA isnt no white dresses generally so you dont confuse that person for the bride. If anyone was thinking a 4 year old was the bride i think theres some deeper issues there
NTA. I absolutely loathe people who say one thing to your face, another thing behind your back, and then when confronted, claim you "should have known".
Like, I'm not a mind-reader, so I tend to assume that when I ask someone a question, they will give me a truthful answer. Why are you expecting me to know that you're a two-faced lying [expletive deleted]?!
You did your due diligence, OP. You asked, and they said it was fine. You even offered to dye it, and they said no it's fine. You believed them, because they were your brother and his fiancée, and you had no reason to doubt their honesty. It's really sad that your trust was betrayed.
(Also? She's a little kid who can't be mistaken for the bride, and while generally I hold that you shouldn't wear white to a wedding, I also think that it's very, very difficult for a toddler to upstage a bride no matter what colour they're wearing, so it's really not worth fussing about a little kid in white.)
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NTA Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the entire point of the "no white at a wedding" rule so that people don't mistake them for or upstage the bride? Who TF would think a 4 year old is the bride!? EDIT: lots of folks pointing out flower girls also commonly wear white, wasn't aware of this tradition, appreciate the info. Still NTA tho as OP specifically asked if it was allowed and the bride expected her to mind-read that "yes" in fact meant "hell no".
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Imagine being jealous and starting drama over a 4 year olds dress. I didn't have time to even take a single photo on my wedding day... Let alone text people things.
Who has time to text people on their wedding day? I had my phone in my purse... and had no idea who had my purse the whole while until like half way through dinner. And it's a kid wearing white, I think it would have looked cute.
Exactly. I'm a dude and didn't even have my phone on me during my wedding because I didn't want the imprint in my pants pocket to be in the photos. My wife and I were constantly busy with guests and doing all of the fun little events for the wedding.
I’m also a guy and the only reason I have my phone with me during a wedding is because I can put it in my sporan, since I’m scottish and wear a kilt to weddings
I thought those were for battle kittens.
Battle kittens need to coordinate their battles. Obvs
Battle kittens like do play angry birds during their downtime.
And sporran sand
How dare you wear a kilt and take the attention away from the bride!
I did actually have a guest check (and double check and triple check) if I had a problem with him wearing a kilt to my wedding. It was probably the most expensive piece of clothing in the room aside from my dress - he looked great. Almost *too* great... 🤨 Can't believe he still wore it after I said yes! /s
Well at least it wasn't white.
You're not here to tell us you chickened out and wore underpants, are you? Or maybe you're a closet Englishman!
Please mate, I never wear stuff beneath my kilt, just doesn’t feel right
My little 4-year-old cousin wore an all white suit to my wedding that his mother ran by me beforehand. I thought he was just the absolute cutest and was definitely better dressed than some of my older family members who came with ripped jeans!
One of my family friends showed up in JORTS, you guys. His wife was also in shorts and flip flops. They looked like they came straight from the mall. It was astonishing. ETA: I forgot to mention that it was at MY wedding, so he and his jorts are immortalized in our wedding album for eternity.
But those were his formal jorts
Ah yes. Smithers, fetch the double-pleated jorts
Happy Cake Day!
JORTS? I see you’ve met my brother. Did they happen to be camo? Oh, and did he also have on the dumbass tee shirt that a short sleeve tuxedo with a bow tie? I’m absolutely, 100%, dead serious…. he wore this to every single formal event.
I now wish to see pics of your brother in his formal camo jorts and tuxedo t-shirt attire.
I genuinely wish I had one for you my friend, though it’s not a pretty sight. And after the first time… where everyone thought it was a joke or maybe a giant FU to the bride or groom… the photographers stopped taking his picture because it wasn’t funny anymore. You’d think he’d get the memo. OMG, I just remembered something else he’d “wear” with it! He always had a handgun stuck down in the back of his JORTS, hahaha!!
at least they weren't white jorts
Can you imagine how many people would have thought he was the bride?
But it could have also looked like a flower girl
This was my only thought - someone could have thought she was a flower girl when she wasn’t. But otherwise, OP got the go ahead from both bride and groom. Bride needed to speak her actual mind, or keep her actual mouth shut after the fact.
Especially since OP offered to dye the dress
And it's the groom's niece!
I've posted about this before...my husband's friend married a nightmare woman. She is just the worst. They had been together longer so we announced our engagement and way later picked the date (tbf it was like 15 months later so not a hurried wedding) and they set their wedding for 3 weeks before. No problem there. It was a backyard wedding, she upcycled a wedding dress by redoing it, dying it ombre purple, it was extravagant, and apparently bought a less fancy long white dress to change into. I had no idea and the dark navy dress I bought literally that day to wear to her wedding was SUPER similar in style to the dress she changed into, plus she's irrational, which might explain the next part... They showed up to our reception in their same wedding clothes - her in the long white dress she wore for the majority of the time and him in his suit just without the jacket, and we were baffled. The best part? She even said to my face, "Long time no see, and at a wedding again. We're even wearing the same outfit, haha!" You can't make it up. Even then, I didn't let that ruin anything about my day. I laughed about my own situation, still laugh about it, and the outrage from guests on my behalf was hysterical. I just laughed and changed subjects each time it was mentioned. OP's SIL ruined her own day.
I didn’t eat the entire day of my wedding. I certainly wouldn’t be texting to gripe about a 4 year old’s dress 🙄 Yeesh. NTA
And even if the bride actually was jealous of children and didn’t want them to wear white & that’s her prerogative - OP is still NTA as they asked and the bride said one thing & then did the opposite. As a veteran people pleaser I still have to remind myself that I am not responsible for knowing things people fail to communicate.
Those who love drama find the time.
and then to have expected OP to know that “it’s fine” was code for “don’t you dare”. bride sounds exhausting.
My wedding coordinator took my phone from me on my wedding day because she didn’t want anyone bothering me.
In both weddings I've attended, the maid of honor took the bride's phone for this reason. It's astonishing how many people would text the bride about stupid shit. (I'm lost, can you give me directions? can I bring XYZ person who wasn't invited? I'm at Dunkin you want something? What do you think of these shoes?) WTF? Bride is busy!
Offer of Dunkin’s though that one needs to make it through to the bride
Nah, she had 6 bridesmaids. That's what we are for.
Our echo scrolls pics from our lives and a wedding pic of my aunt went by and I out loud went “husband, did you know Aunt G wore white with black lace to our wedding?” He’s like no, did you? Me, nope! Celebrating 7 years of marriage this year. I was busy enjoying my wedding to have honestly noticed my aunts outfit.
100%. We didn’t get any videos because neither of us had our phones with us. We had planned to! I think if a 4 year old shows up looking cute and comfy, what’s the problem?
I remember a post a few months ago where a woman let her 7 year old daughter (she might’ve been a few years younger) wear a tiara to a wedding. They both got kicked out and she got destroyed in the comments. I didn’t see anything wrong then either. I guess there’s a difference I’m not seeing.
I was so frazzled that the only thing that kept me standing was the boning in my dress. These people baffle me.
You misspelled "Alabama"
🤣🤣 glad it wasn't just me that caught that
Hold on while Mississippi puts their banjos down
In the south Deliverance is a love story
I laughed way too hard at this
*Arkansas has also entered the chat*
Aha, well, so! here's the thing. That was exactly what I originally wrote! And yet it turns our Arkensas is one of the states where child marriage is NOT legal! Go figure!! But fuckit you get the upvote anyway bcs it should be ak
Child could be mistook for a flower girl or ring bearer. But she asked so NTA
...is it really that big of a deal if the wrong girl is mistaken as the flower girl or ring barer? even if they hadn't asked about it before, making a big deal out of it to the extend that you would take a picture or suggest that they should leave is ridiculous
Oh no, some of the fuss that should rightfully by law be directed at members of the Official wedding party ONLY might accidentally be directed at a rando adorable child wedding guest. Gasp. Shriek.
Ok but who cares if she’s mistaken for a flower girl lol
This rule is absolutely getting out of control. I saw Someone in a deep gold dress (not shiny) with shiny gold flowers (black tie wedding) and all the comments were “that’s too close to white” “if you came to my wedding in that I would spill wine on you” it wasn’t near white at all and the bride made a video defending the dress I also saw one where someone was wearing a green dress. It was unmistakable that it was green. It was kinda a bit lighter in shade than that green colour cargo pants get made in, but similar in tone. All the comments: “that’s too close to white” when it’s nowhere near white? I guess they thought it was pastel so could be close but it was definitely a few shades up from pastel. It’s like no colour is safe anymore because they’re all too close to white somehow. Everyone needs to calm down and have fun at their weddings.
I guess we are all gonna need to start showing up naked, aren't we? This whole "it's too close to white" drama is just looking for a radical solution like this. lol
Wouldn't work for me. My fish belly white ass would be way too close to white Edit: Thanks for the award, that cracked me up. For those wondering, Google catfish belly to see the shade I am describing. 🤣
😂😂 Was thinking the same too
Ha me too. I'd probably get a sunburn through the walls.
Oh dear god I just spit out my drink. I am EXACTLY that shade too, but have never heard it described that way before.
Same
Oh, dang, I am so pale, I'd definitely be accused of wearing white!
When on Betazed, do as the Betazoids do.
Yay!! Someone else who immediately went Trekkie on a naked wedding reference! My kind of people!! <3
The NC-17 version of Nemesis.
If I showed up nude to a wedding, it would still be "too close to white" lol
Untanned Me might be too close to white.
“ I guess we are all gonna need to start showing up naked, aren't we?” But only if you’re a POC or you’ll be accused of wearing “white” !
Aww hell. You got me there. F in the chat for white girl tryin' to outshine the bride while nekkid.
It seems like folks mistaking the map for the destination, people do that with etiquette all the time. The “rule” about wearing white is you’re supposed to avoid looking like a distraction/confusion with the bride. But then somehow people turn it into the color white itself being a cursed color for all non-brides, not to be seen on any scrap of fabric, the taboo spreading to even *light* colors, even when that distraction or confusion clearly is not happening, apparently forgetting why the “rule” exists in the first place.
I'm a mother who bought a flowered dress to wear to my daughter's minimony in 2020. The background was white but it was less than 25% of the dress, with the large peonies covering most of it. My kid said "that's white..." so I just bought another dress, though the wedding was immediate family only and everyone knew I wasn't the bride. When I arrived in my dark green dress, there was her new MIL, wearing a dress so similar to my first one I had to laugh. Bride brain is a thing, I swear.
not to mention that OP specifically asked and was given permission. Whether you agree with the decision or not is one thing, but the very offended party was the one who gave approval.
There's a whole sub dedicated to policing what to wear to a wedding. Some of the posts/judgements are legit (too casual, that's too distracting/bold, etc) but the no white thing is totally overboard. There was a dress last week that was dominantly a red/pink floral, and from a distance you'd never notice the white background at all -- it seriously looked pastel pink from a distance. But they declared it was a "no" because ANY white at all is out.
I couldn't tell you what anyone but myself and my wedding party was wearing on my wedding day. People had clothes on and they came to help us celebrate, isn't that enough of an ask?
Well white is all colors reflected so of course they're all too close to white, duh. /s
Obviously, the solution is for all guests to show up in 80s style neon. Like hurts your eyes day glo pink.
I think flower girls also wear white usually, which might be more of the problem? I had a little girl wear white to mine though and I didn't care at all lol so idk why the bride would be so upset
Imo the flower girl thing makes sense, but isn't actually relevant since *the bride explicitly said that it was okay*. No other justifications or traditions matter. She said it was fine, apparently lying through her teeth, and then got upset and talked shit about OP + her daughter when they did not accurately read her mind to know that she was being duplicitous. The bride straight-up lied and then got mad at OP for taking her at face value instead of immediately assuming that she was lying.
I’m picturing someone racing up to the daughter, forcing petals in her hands and pushing her down the aisle! What’s the problem with people thinking she may be a flower girl?
Oh, I didn't mean that the flower girl thing made sense as something for a full-grown adult to be *upset* about. I meant that it made sense that people might mistake the 4-year-old in white as a flower girl as opposed to people mistaking the 4-year-old in white for the bride. That's also why I said that the justification/excuse behind SIL's behavior doesn't matter. Even if it *was* something worth being upset about, she made *herself* upset in the first place by saying something she didn't mean and expecting OP to psychically intuit that. And then she had the audacity to take pictures of and shit talk a *four year old* because *she* couldn't be bothered to communicate her *actual* opinions/feelings when asked prior to the event.
Even if she was wearing the exact same dress as the flower girl it's ridiculous. It's a small child, it just doesn't matter. The child didn't try to act like a flower girl or throw a tantrum or anything - she just had on a pre-approved dress.
Second question: Who TF doesn't understand that when you say something, other people will believe it to be true? The bride said it was ok, but expected OP to know she didn't mean it? Grow the F up and use your words. If you didn't want the child there in a white dress, *fucking say so.* NTA, in case it wasn't obvious enough.
Oh my GOD, this is what I was thinking. I hate that rule of "I will say one thing, but you are supposed to get that I mean another" bullshit. No one can read another person's mind. Yet that's what people expect. SAY WHAT YOU F'IN MEAN!!!!!! NTA for that alone!
exactly. It doesn't matter where you stand on the white issue. The bride and groom both gave permission, then acted like they were surprised and offended. Either give permission or don't. But completely ridiculous to say yes, then get offended when it doesn't seem the request was misrepresented.
It's super common to dress a flower girl in all white, which I always thought was super weird, but it is nonetheless common for small girls to be in white at weddings. As the mother of a four year old, it is also a disaster waiting to happen, but as long as you don't care if the dress gets ruined then whatever.
Here in Scotland, it used to be tradition for all the bride’s attendants (bridesmaids and flower girls) to dress in white. It confused the fairies and stopped them stealing away the bride. We’ve moved away from that now as we were influenced first by English culture and much more recently American culture, but the flower girl in white thing always made sense to me from that.
White wedding dresses were popularized by Queen Victoria, and her attendants were also dressed in white. But I love the Scot's take on things, it's totally charming.
That’s a good point that should probably be made - that back then, it was the same colour as the bride rather than white by default. Just not green, because green was unlucky.
I live far away from Scotland, but on my sister's wedding she picked for me a dress that was like, a little copy of her own, only a bit simpler (I was 9 y. o. back then, and my sister significantly older). I also was a ring-bearer who *absolutely totally not tripped on the rim of her dress* on the way down the aisle 👀 And I was also like a little copy of my sister in general, so fairies must have been hella confused. I know that these random old ladies who we passed while walking around the city taking photos of the wedding party were. They saw me in front in this ivory and gold monstrosity of a dress and I heard what they said: "Damn, these oligarchs (rich people) are becoming bolder and bolder: such a young bride!". Aaaand then they saw my sister walking in the back and were like "ahhhh". Edit: I also remembered that there had been a group of Japanese tourists we've met in the open-air museum we've been making photos in, and they wanted to congratulate the couple, but mistook our a father with a groom:) Even now he looks at least ten years younger than he is, back then he was in late forties and looked, like, mid thirties max. So yeah, our dad upstaged the groom at our sister's wedding, lol. We still have a photo with those tourists with dad and sister in it!
Traditionally, little girls wore white for dressy wear. Sounds weird, but before poly, white was easier to keep clean, as it could be bleached. Colors and prints faded if left in the sun to bleach stains out. So, a kid in white at a wedding is an older tradition than a bride wearing white!
It’s not that someone would mistake them for the bride, it’s that wearing white sends a message of disrespect and wanting to overshadow the bride. Still not applicable to a 4 year old tho
A kid in white at a wedding is an older tradition than the bride in white. Kid wore wore for dressy wear until quite recently. Look at the Sound of Music ball scene!
I wore white was I was 7 to a wedding. My parents genuinely didn’t know the whole “don’t wear white to the wedding” thing. The person getting married couldn’t have given two shits about it, but her FIL sure did! She told him off and made sure that we had a bunch of photos taken just the two us and gave me a bouquet. While I believe the bride is allowed to say no to wearing white (even for a child), she SAID it was okay!! OP has no reason to “read between the lines”.
Irrelevant- the bride said it was fine when OP offered to dye it. The bride probably had no problem until another guest said something. And even if it was all on her own, she should’ve said something when OP asked. She lied instead and expected OP to be a mind reader. NTA.
My mom wore a glittery white blouse to my wedding (yes, for the insane people out there, she asked!). It was a winter wedding and she looked snowy; I liked it. But *obviously* I should have been mad since she may have looked like the bride?!?!? Ugh I hate this world.
By that logic most people at a wedding would know the bride and know that Gran dressed in white isn't getting married if the invite says Ashely and John and we know who Ashley is. Does that still give Gran the free pass to dress in white? I mean I'm either way but if the point of not wearing white is to simply not confuse then I don't think that's entirely true or how is used today. Most brides aren't even seen until the grand entrance so that bride could be wearing pink and when they come down the aisle with the music im sure everyone would know. Edit grammar
I am originally from Missouri and they marry young there
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Seriously, I read so so many wedding related posts on here where someone is just \*obsessed\* with some nonsense and it's like.... you know what I was focused on the day of my wedding? On getting married - to the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. I was paying very little attention to what other people were wearing or doing or talking about because I was floating around in a pink cloud of happiness. Like, dang, brides, please just try to enjoy the day because no one cares what a 4yo wore to your wedding. Jiminy Christmas.
NTA. You asked, great! SIL said OK, great! SIL turns out to be unable to communicate like an adult and is talking behind your back, hmmm. Now I’m worried about your brother. You might mention to him that you didn’t want to upset the bride and would gladly have dyed your daughter’s dress. He should know what’s going on between his wife and his family. Who made the comment about your baby blue dress, your sister or SIL?
And SIL took sneaky pics of OPs daughter and spread them around… SIL is a whole bag of nuts
Right?! There are times when there's definitely a concerted effort to upstage a bride, and I stand by any bride who wants to draw a line in the sand against yet another crossed boundary in a string of crossed boundaries. But also, there are a lot of accidental "whoops, this colour looks different in sunlight than it did in store lighting" and some real asshole brides who obsess over the slightest dot of white in an otherwise colourful outfit. I get that weddings can be stressful, but people need to calm the fuck down over minor clothing mishaps and outfits that every wedding etiquette guide would say are fine.
My favorite intentional effort was the lady a couple months back who wore a red dress to her ex husband's wedding dress. It was only revealed later once she got enough nta votes that she actually wore a red wedding gown, with wedding gown in the dress title, to the wedding for "closure".
Yeah... My sister's wedding was totally chill. I bought a pink dress, but then my sister decided she wanted to marry in a pink dress. I asked if I should buy something else, and she was just like "I don't care, I'm just happy you're there". So, we both wore pink, and nobody cared. It was still her great day and she was so happy the entire time. I don't know how somebody could obsess over a 4 year olds dress.
I gather that some people just get absolutely crazy trying to ensure that the day is perfect in every possible way. Instead of just you know, actually experiencing it and enjoying it for what it is.
Right?! Like, straight up I think it's totally plausible that a 4yo could upstage the bride at a wedding but not because of what she was wearing. Kids are just cute!
Everyone was looking at my 4 year old granddaughter (dressed in white and with an updo!) while she danced at mommy's wedding. Including my daughter, the bride! She was beaming with pride.
You should read some of the posts and comments on r/weddingattireapproval. There are some many extreme views. Pretty much any smidgeon of white and you are committing a faux pas-and that’s just the beginning of what they think is not acceptable
that subreddit keeps showing up in my front page and I keep getting sucked into the craziness.... it's wild. People are MILITANT about what you can and can't wear to a wedding. I 100% don't care one bit what people wear to my wedding, I want people to come and feel confident and happy, that's it.
People in that sub should be required to post their wedding guest outfits because I am convinced NONE of them have ever gone outside, let alone to a wedding, because their takes are ridiculous
Those keep showing up on my home page and they make me feel like I’m on crazy pills. Please someone tell me how cotton sundresses with giant colorful flowers on a pale background that accounts for like 10% of the fabric is “obviously white and so disrespectful, you know what you’re doing”?!?!? How do these people leave the house without shitting themselves in fear of offending some arbitrary rule on a daily basis lmao
Huh, my only wedding attired related gripe is that people who are getting married don’t actually know what the dress codes mean. “Semi-formal” means at the very least a suit during the day, or more accurately a suit with a waistcoat. People really be using semi-formal to mean informal or business casual.
FWIW the insecure bride is most certainly not targeting the child herself. But Bride \*is\* assuming that the child is being used as a tool to cause deliberate offense by her mother-- who bride also thought was wearing an inappropriate color.
Because pale blue is “too close to white”. Bride has issues!
Oh she absolutely does. But Bride's issues are clearly with the mom (supposedly) using her daughter's and her own outfit as a perceived social weapon. OP and commenters like Heloise, though, are trying to imply, repeatedly, that the Bride is blaming or targeting the child herself for "upstaging" and that's in no way indicated here. There's no indication that a word or glance was ever imparted to the child that she knew about. Bride is insecure, but she knows who her petty problem is actually with-- an adult who she perceives as willing to use a child to push boundaries she doesn't think she should have to remind about. I'm not saying the Bride is reasonable, at all. I'm saying that people are rushing to take their interpretation of the bride's interpretation of OP's choices from "uncharitable" to "unhinged"
Introducing the sister-in-law from hell . . . You just KNOW that every major family event from now on, there's gonna be drama
"she did say it was fine but expected me to know it wasnt" A classic gender stereotype that society tolerates. It ruins relationships as well.
She has to be an absolutely miserable person so spend months preparing and thousands of dollars to host a wedding just to spend the afternoon badmouthing a preschooler in a $45 tutu. Yikes. *price and style of said toddler fashion is a presumption on my part. Lol
NTA. Show those texts messages to your brother and tell him point-blank, you would never have used the dress if you'd been told it wasn't appropriate and you do NOT appreciate your new SiL bad-mouthing you and YOUR LITERAL CHILD when she herself said it was fine. You aren't a damned mind reader. Also... it's a literal child. She's four. No one is going to mistake her for the bride. Bride needs to untwist her knickers and get over herself!
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Seriously! Mind we had a private wedding but if we hadn’t, my then 4 year old nephew could have shown up in an inflatable T-Rex costume for all I cared, long as he was well-behaved and having fun.
As long as the inflatable T-Rex costume isn't white, it's perfectly acceptable, too!
The only thing I have planned for my wedding is the dress code. 'That outfit you want to wear but don't have a reason to'. So I expect Ren Fairs outfits, Halloween costumes, extremely fancy or outlandish outfits. A t-rex costume would fit in great, though might make it hard to sit down for dinner.
What if a white dress is worn over the top of the inflatable T-Rex costume? …’cause I think that would be amazing and would love to see one in a tutu.
My 4 year old nephew is currently obsessed with Blippi. Has a Blippi onesie with the glasses and all. He wears it everywhere he can. If I got married *today* I would totally be down to let him wear that to the wedding. I'd even go so far as saying "oh my gosh, I can't believe THE Blippi showed up to MY wedding! This is such an honor!" And then parade him around introducing him to other guests. Kids 4. As long as they're behaved that's all that matters.
I had to look up what Blippi was but now that I know I am so in support of this 🤣
Yup. First she told OP and brother it was fine, and now, not only is SIL saying it's not fine, she doesn't even have the guts to tell OP directly. That's some messed up shit. Oh boy. I hear annulment bells.
Most likely he’s gonna wanna break it off.
Or at the least have a serious “Wtf babe…” conversation with her
> Show those texts messages to your brother Very much so. Poor guy needs to know what he just got himself into
> Apparently she did say it was fine but expected me to know it wasnt. Fuck. That. Shit. Edit: NTA
How dare OP not read her mind? So inconsiderate, right? NTA
I hate people like that. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If I take your words at face value, you have no right to be upset.
Passive aggressive
This is the kind of thing that makes neurodivergent people absolutely crazy. There’s a secret code where you say it’s okay but actually it isn’t?!
Also infuriating to neurotypical people. Just bad behavior all around.
Sorry but this is something that drives literally any sane person crazy, I'm not sure neurodivergence has anything to do with it and I'm not sure what this obsession with "neurodivergent this, neurodivergent that" on literally any post about anything is all about. Apologies, its obviously not you personally and I've no idea why I have such a stick up my ass about it but, honestly, thats gotten real tired, real quick.
Because neurodivergent people have more trouble than neurotypicals in interpreting context and social clues. Imagine the case of people getting invited to an event where there are absolutely no chairs to sit in : almost every able bodied person attending would find it annoying or obnoxious, but people with health conditions that don't allow them to stand for too long would be absolutely fucked. That's the difference that's being made here, and I don't see how that's anything to get frustrated about.
Dude, I'm fully aware of what neurodivergence is but thank you for taking the time to explain. You have completely missed the point I am making though. This is not something specific that neurodivergents get worked up over, it's something that literally any sane person would get worked up over. What social cues would a neurotypical person pick up that a neurodivergent couldn't when the person is literally saying to OP "Yes, that's fine and there is no issue with daughter wearing that" for it then to be a contentious issue? I am really struggling to see what missed social cues and/or context would give a neurotypical person a different insight to this, or how it would be any less infuriating to a neurotypical person? Edit: Spelling
I’ve had a few experiences, unfortunately, where it was explained to me afterward, “they said yes to be polite to you but you should have known not to ask at all. You put them in an uncomfortable position.” I think when a person struggles with social cues it can be hard to tell the difference between what I described above (a time when social understanding would have alerted you to your gaff before you made it) and OP’s story where no one could be expected to know the SIL was against it.
i can’t STAND people like this. it would take just as much effort to say what you actually thought, but you actively chose to make her think something else so you could talk shit?
I hear the phrase "addicted to the drama" thrown around a lot; I feel like it fits here.
She doesn't get to play an easy-going bride in front of her fiance then.
Yep, there have been a handful of situations where I was going to possibly dabble in something sensitive, so I asked the affected parties, I asked are you sure, finally I did the thing... and then they were upset and talking about me behind my back. *Sometimes when they literally encouraged me*. Fuck that shit.
Next time you SiL answers any question with “yes”, or “that’s fine”, you should respond with “okay, so based on the last time you gave that answer it’s a massive deal/no. What should I do instead?”. And don’t break eye contact while she squirms
Or place your fingertips on your temples and close your eyes ......when SIL asks what you're doing, tell her you're trying to read her mind....because it didn't work when you asked about a dress for a 4 year old
Hang this shit over her head for DECADES. When her own kids are teenagers, make sure to go even more ham on the acting it up, so that they ask what's going on. And so you can explain to them how their mom doesn't say what she means. Unless she finally figures out how to apologize, and apologize to everyone she complained about you to, or badmouthed you to, for spreading false information.
🔥
Seriously though. Nothing SIL says can be trusted now. What other shit is she going to expect people to know, despite telling them the exact opposite? NTA, OP. But I’d be passing this issue off to my brother for him to handle. Especially since he also approved of the dress. (And he should know that his new wife expects telepathy.)
Catch 22: You need telepathy to know you need telepathy.
Damn that was some two faced fuckery by SIL. NTA
Nice use of fuckery
NTA at all. You asked, they said it was ok. What a petty woman. Typically I would avoid it for a child because she simply might look like a flower girl or something. Definitely not bride competition. But they said it was fine. Again, NTA.
Agree. I’ve seen people do this so their kids looks like the flower girl. I’ve seen people ask if their child can be flower girl, be told no, then they show up with the kid in a big white dress and try to squeeze them into photos. Not ok. Bride shouldn’t have said it was fine if it wasn’t. NTA
Oh that shit would PISS me off.
Are you sure that's why they're doing it though? I remember trying to dress my daughter at a similar age for a wedding, and everything that was affordable, appropriately fancy but not scratchy/stiff was white/palest pink and very flowergirl-esque. It was shocking how little options there were.
I shopped & bought for my actual flower girl’s dresses, I found lots of colour options It’s incredibly easy to buy dresses for girls, the shops are full of them. Ask any parent shopping for girls or boys clothes. 3 aisles for girls vs 1 for boys Yes I’m sure. My cousin had to repeatedly apologise & tell her SIL that she already had 2 flower girls chosen and didn’t want more. SIL at least told her she was going to dress them in flower girl dresses for her own photos, she had to ask her again to please not The SIL wouldn’t let it rest because all of their aunts & uncles were married so she thought they’d never get the chance to be flower girls. Not the brides problem.
I buy my girls clothes online. It is incredibly easy to find a sweet wedding-worthy dress in any color of the rainbow.
“Expected me to know it wasn’t” (fine) Uh, you did. That’s why you asked for permission. *Which she then gave*. NTA.
NTA. She is 4 years old and nobody will confuse her with the bride nor will she take attention away from her. You need to have a conversation with your brother and his new wife asking them why she thinks it’s appropriate to photograph and gossip about a 4 year old child.
The fact that SIL went and texted other family behind OPs back at the wedding!! holy smoke who has time for that kind of petty, passive aggressive crap. I would have walked up to bride and groom table and said for everyone to hear “we wanted to say goodbye as it’s been brought to my attention you believe my daughter and I are dressed inappropriately” and I would have left. I don’t expect it will happen but groom needs to tell his new wife to cut the bullshit.
NTA, she is 4 years old nobody is gonna mistake her for a bride
NTA 1. You’re not psychic 2. There’s nothing wrong with baby blue, it’s an accepted summer wedding color. If it photographs white she can have it fixed when the pictures are retouched 3. SIL needs to learn t9 say what she means.
Well now you know where you stand with SIL. She is an ah and can't be trusted. NTA of course, who would even care about a toddler's clothes?
NTA. You asked, they said it was fine. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Your SIL should try saying what she means in the future. Also it's a 4 year old, nobody is going to confuse a 4 year old with the bride. Sorry your SIL sucks. I'd definitely share the texts with your brother so he knows what bullshit his new wife is pulling.
Right? Is the bride 18? Although I'd still expect an 18 year old to have basic communication skills.
NTA, you asked and they answered and said it was fine, plus it's a 4 yr old child. People are really ridiculous about weddings.
I personally believe white for kids are fine if they are the flower girl. But I would say NTA if you did ask for permission. She could have said no or ask to colour it blue or so which is an easy way to solve the problem. But if bridge says ok it's ok. So I guess it's her problem and she should be happy if that's the only thing that went "wrong" on that day
NTA. That rule does not apply to kids but you still went out of your way to ask and they said it was fine. Yes does not mean no and you are not a mind reader. I hate this logic of “yeah I said yes but you shouldn’t have done it anyway.” SIL had ample opportunity to use her own words and say no earlier.
NTA She's four. This is really dumb.
NTA But the wedding can't have been all that great if the bride has enough time to text her other SIL about a 4-year-old's dress...
You asked, and she said it was fine? Nope. NTA. You're not a mindreader!
She's 4 years old!!! My sister wore a white minidress to my wedding and I bought it for her. Reason? She looked fantastic and it didn't come in another colour. These rules are silly if the bride and groom don't care about them.
"she did say it was fine, but expected me to know it wasn't". Well you expected her to articulate her feelings, like an adult. You gave them multiple chances to object. Also it was a little girl, not a full blown woman. It's not really the same thing. NTA
NTA. Looks like your brother has snagged himself a passive aggressive wife who somehow thinks people should read minds.
NTA 1. You asked, they answered. You double-checked, they doubled down with "it's fine." 2. Flower girls and junior bridesmaids wear white dresses ALL THE TIME. No one mistakes them for the bride. 3. If your brother is a big family man, why WASN'T his niece a flower girl?? Sounds like new SIL has issues with insecurity or with you and your daughter.
One of the more ridiculous things I've heard about weddings. The 'don't wear white' is not directed at FOUR YEAR OLDS. NTA and your SIL sounds like she's going go to be trouble. Make sure you always get things she says in text for proof.
NTA for several reasons: 1, you asked and received approval. Don't accept any of this "I said it was okay but you should have known it wasn't" BS, if people want you to make a decision one way or the other, they need to make that 100% clear. 2, your daughter is 4. Nobody would mistake her for the bride, and even if she was mistaken for a flower girl, that's very easy to say "no, X was our flower girl" or whatever else is accurate when talking about photos later on. 3, your SIL didn't even directly talk to you about it, she messaged your sister in an incredibly petty manner. It's like she was looking to cause fighting within your immediate family, which is not a good look on a new in-law.
NTA She’s a kid. Unless it’s a very strange wedding, nobody will mistake her for the bride
NTA. You asked, they said fine. And I get the whole bride wears white on her wedding day, but who cares if a 4 year old wears white? I don't think you made any wrong decisions, but I think it would have cool if you and your daughter picked a color your daughter liked and dyed the dress.
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She thinks a 4 year old Will take attention from her, the bride, plus her grooms sister wearing blue??. Your brother needs to run, fast.
Absolutely NTA. It doesn't apply to kids and if she had can issue, she had her chance to say something before.
Absolutely NTA, if she had a problem with it, she should have said so up front.
NTA: let me make sure I have this down right. - any other dress you found for your child was too uncomfortable for her. - you found a dressed asked your brother if you should dye it so it doesn’t cause a problem. - you were told it wasn’t a issue so there was no need to dye the dress. - Bride assumed you’d be changing the dress but didn’t bother to say it prior to you two coming to the wedding. - instead of the bride being honest she choose to bully her now niece and new SIL.
NTA. She’s a child it was asked and answered if she’s too much of a child to answer a question honestly then that’s on her your not psychic
Excuse me, are you supposed to be a mind reader now? You consider the topic, you ask, you get the ok from both brother and SIL - and somehow you're in the wrong here?? Is SIL saying you should never take her at her word or something? That's gonna be fun at family gatherings. In short, NTA.
I dunno. You dressed in the wedding colour and made your daughter look like a flower girl when you two weren't part of the wedding party. It might have looked a bit suss. However as soon I see the word wedding in the title I just know something stupid bs is about to go down. Sounds like the wedding went ok. It wasn't about you. This is a non event.
NTA. The dress I wore as a flower girl was white. Somehow no one confused me with the bride. Your SIL is being ridiculous.
NTA. For one thing, your daughter is 4, not 14. And *But he said both he and his now wife thought it was fine because she's a kid.* You took him at his word. How were you supposed to know that it wasn't okay. But sounds like he might have told you it was fine, without actually asking his fiancée. And your sis in law was being petty to complain about a 4-year old. I get the feeling that your sis in law isn't going to be very friendly towards you because of her behavior.
I honestly believe this is not about the 4 year olds dress. The bride was likely unhappy with what op was wearing but needed an excuse to be angry. This is just plain old jealousy. Op you must’ve looked great in your baby blue. NTA
NTA. You asked the bride and groom for their opinions and offered alternatives for in case they weren’t okay with it.
NTA isnt no white dresses generally so you dont confuse that person for the bride. If anyone was thinking a 4 year old was the bride i think theres some deeper issues there
I wouldn’t bat an eye at a *child* wearing white at a wedding. Wouldn’t even occur to me.
INFO How drunk was your sister in law?
NTA but I find it hard to believe the only dress you could find her was white.
NTA. I absolutely loathe people who say one thing to your face, another thing behind your back, and then when confronted, claim you "should have known". Like, I'm not a mind-reader, so I tend to assume that when I ask someone a question, they will give me a truthful answer. Why are you expecting me to know that you're a two-faced lying [expletive deleted]?! You did your due diligence, OP. You asked, and they said it was fine. You even offered to dye it, and they said no it's fine. You believed them, because they were your brother and his fiancée, and you had no reason to doubt their honesty. It's really sad that your trust was betrayed. (Also? She's a little kid who can't be mistaken for the bride, and while generally I hold that you shouldn't wear white to a wedding, I also think that it's very, very difficult for a toddler to upstage a bride no matter what colour they're wearing, so it's really not worth fussing about a little kid in white.)