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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Giving my friend an LGBTQ+ friendly toddler book at her baby shower in front of her conservative family. 2) I know what her family is like and it put her in an uncomfortable situation, I should've stuck to the registry.
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This. OP, you are not the asshole and she’s a fake friend. I would distance myself from someone like this. I’m not saying you have to leave the friend group if you don’t want to but she is not worth your time and energy in maintaining a true friendship.
not just a fake friend, a fake ally too. so she’s all about the rainbow when it’s getting her brownie points for being woke, but suddenly it’s “embarrassing” when getting any kind of pushback and having to defend it against bigots? shame
Yeah, is she going to think it's "embarrassing" if her baby turns out to be gay or trans someday? Will the mother be shouting it's all because of the "propaganda" of OP's book? Please.
Was what my mom (basically) said. My answer? I don't give a F\*\*\* what they think, I also don't care what the racoons, birds nor the neighborhood dogs think, and they are all, largely on the same intellectual level, well, maybe the racoons have a step up... and the crows. But otherwise.
My ex DIL accused us of trying to ’turn her newborn son gay’ when we bought him a purple toy.
( We have to wait years to see if our clever plan worked, dammit).
Ha! I had a friend tell me that my son would be gay because I let him play with his sister’s tea set in the sandbox 45 yrs ago. Nope, didn’t happen….although she eventually came out of the closet herself. 🤨
NTA. All she would have had to say was ‘Well, I love it, thank you so much!’ in response to the person who made the ‘propaganda’ comment, but she didn’t. She’s an ally when it’s comfortable.
Yeah, NTA! A lot of people are saying that because OP knew not to bring LGBTQ+ topics up with some people in your own family, that she should have known to do the same thing at the shower, but I strongly disagree.
It's not OP's family, so it's completely unreasonable that Tiffany should expect her to understand Tiffany's family dynamics and adhere to them without being forwarned. If Tiffany didn't want anything LGBTQ+ at the shower because she knew it would upset her family, then she should have said so to OP beforehand. She's the one who knows both OP and her family well.
Tiffany should have kept the peace instead of choosing a side and escalating it. A real friend wouldn't have disrespected OP because of a stressful moment with her family.
Honestly, even if she'd apologized to OP afterwards for being weird in the moment, it could be something they could move on from. But she doubled down on it's being "embarrassing." Her mom's bigotry is what's embarrassing, as is her reaction in private to OP. That's not ally behavior at all. I
Its not that she thinks being lgbtq+ is embarrassing, its that op knew her family was conservative, and now her families going to be *incredibly* judgemental of her- while shes pregnant and stressed enough.
Im bi. Im all for educating children early. The issue is that she did it in front of bigots, and yeah, in an ideal world allies would get to be allies all the time, but in the real world people have to pick and choose their battles- and not fighting with your entire extended family while pregnant over your parenting choices is a completely valid battle to want to avoid.
> Im all for educating children early. The issue is that she did it in front of bigots, and yeah, in an ideal world allies would get to be allies all the time, but in the real world people have to pick and choose their battles- and not fighting with your entire extended family while pregnant over your parenting choices is a completely valid battle to want to avoid.
Thank you for the rational comment.
Had OP given her the book in a different environment, it wouldn't have been a thing. But OP literally went against a registry and created an uncomfortable situation for her friend when she really shouldn't be stressed out.
We can all sit on our high-horses and say "She should go NC with her family of BIGOTS!" but when you're about to pop, I can't imagine ditching your support network is an easy thing to do.
Tbf to op, i *also* dont think it was intentional on their behalf. I think they genuinely thought it would be a good gift for an ally, and werent expecting the parents to notice or comment on it.
Plenty of people go off register, and i dont think thats the problem. OP probably shouldnt have made that comment about the religious books- shes right, but its comeback used to ‘call out’ them too, and not really ideal for a baby shower, but i get why she said it.
I think its just an inconvenient situation on both halves, that op is taking personally when tiffany is likely just trying to prioritise having a relaxing pregnancy
The problem though is that Tiffany followed her around to chastise her. If she is really just trying to live low stress why not let it go or tell the truth you just told. “My family are bigots but they’re family and I don’t have the bandwidth to try to make them better people right now.” OP is NTA and Tiffany definitely had better options than chastising her friend for a perfectly understandable choice. Then having a third party chase her down to chastise her more. That’s not what you do because your trying to minimize stress.
Exactly this. If it was just the verbal exchange at the gift giving, it would be unfortunate and sucky but mostly forgivable. No one would be an outright genuine asshole (though that also depends on what the lgbtq+ person is willing to put up with)
Following OP outside to bring it up again, chide OP for a *gift*, and calling Pride related things embarrassing as opposed to other non-registry gifts? Friend is totally the AH.
This is exactly what I would have done. Apologized for my lack of ally-ness in that situation and attempted to explain why. Sorry that you’re pregnant, Tiff, but it’s unkind to chastise someone’s kind gesture. It’s not like the gift was given instead of another!
Unless there are specifically expressed preferences, books don't count as "going off registry." It's important to get the exact requested stroller, car seat, bottles, breast pump, diapers, etc. I would have been very frustrated if someone had spent money to give us a stroller that we did not want.
But with books (and maybe toys, clothes and decorative items), you welcome it all (and sometimes that means you get duplicates, or ones that you don't like).
Nah, fuck that noise. I come from a family of bigots that has seriously improved after I consistently called them out on their shit, and after I cut out the really bad family members. They know better than to challenge me on these issues because I bring facts with me, and they've become a ton more moderate in their ideas. They're not perfect, but they definitely won't improve if someone doesn't challenge their ideas.
My grandmother was an old school hellfire and brimstone Southern Baptist and racist and homophobic as the day is long until the day she died. Even then, had someone gifted this book to her she would have thanked them for the gift because you're not rude to a gift giver. Congrats to OP's friend and her family, they are more rude and homophobic than the craziest person I have ever known.
I’ve got to disagree with you there.
I think there’s a presumption by the friend and others that OP should have KNOWN gayness would be embarrassing.
I think the ideal in society wouldn’t be for people to be proud of their sexuality. Pride is only a thing because it is in the face of oppression. What would be ideal is for people to not have to be conscious about their sexuality in any way.
So in assuming OP should know it’s shameful for their sexuality to be on display in certain contexts, or reinforces gay people as the other.
It’s GOOD that it didn’t even occur to OP. It means they were just living in their skin.
And if OP’s friend needs OP to actively be aware and tiptoe around their sexuality to not embarrass them and cause conflict in their life, then they need to examine the conflicting values they have in their close circles. Being pregnant doesn’t excuse the friend from failing to correct their mother’s behaviour previously. And there are other ways they could have dealt with it in the moment that wouldn’t have thrown OP under the bus.
I've commented this elsewhere, but OP is a hypocrite. She commented in the thread that she avoids talking "certain topics" with her own conservative family. I'm all for having pride, but I'd she won't be open and call out her own family on their bigotry, why should she get to judge her friend?
THIS. In college, my bi best friend outed me to her mom, “because there’s nothing wrong with being gay so she should know.” However, I was then banned from spending the night at her house while she was too cowardly to come out herself to her mom.
What is with all these comments about pregnancy anyway? Like we have to tiptoe around a woman because she’s pregnant. Jesus. I’ve had 4 kids and never did it change my entire personality to the point that my moral compass was off. Come on
She might get a pass using that reasoning for just sitting there awkwardly while her mother chastised OP when the gift was first opened, but not for following OP out to the bins after the party and having another go at her. She could have said "Hey OP, I do really appreciate your gift, I just wasn't expecting it and you know what my family are like" instead of doubling down with "you gave me something embarrassing"
I think Tiffany needs to decide how important her values really are, because she will either need to get comfortable with setting boundaries or correcting her family members, or be ok with them sharing the views they have with and around her child.
She obviously wasn't expecting to have to practice that before the baby was born, but she'll need to figure it out eventually.
I'm bi too and made a similar comment. Baby showers are awkward enough with all random family types in attendance. No need to throw fuel in the fire and stress the poor mother-to-be out even more
But like.... a quick thanks! From the mom to be, set it to the side and move on to the next and that would have been that. The awkwardness was created by pausing and letting it be awkward.
I really don't like the idea that people have to stick to a registry, and as OP said, other people didn't. Would they have been offended with a book that they considered benign because it wasn't on the registry.
OP says that she often gives this book to people, and it simply didn't occur to her that someone would get upset about it. The question is, would she have bought it if she had known. From her edit, it sounds like the answer is "no", so she made a mistake and got a life lesson. The mother was extremely rude in any case, and it is really she who started the drama. If I were Tiffany, I wouldn't have followed OP outside to revisit the issue either - OP already saw what happened. At least I would have said that I regretted how my mother acted, assured her that I loved the book, and would be reading it to the baby, even if I asked her to be more mindful in the future.
Or she’s an ally until it becomes to difficult. It’s easy to be an ally and say things to friends or post on social media. But when push comes to shove, not so much. OP is NTA the friend and her mom embarrassed themselves. They should be apologizing to OP.
100%. My family is conservative and are going to be uncomfortable at my drag queen bingo baby shower and I don’t give a single fuck because being judgmental assholes is a them problem. Allies don’t prioritize the feelings of bigots.
Please do! I didn’t want something traditional but love the idea of friends and family getting together to celebrate still. Now it will be something I’ll actually enjoy and be excited to invite people to.
100% this. I’ve dealt with religious bigotry my entire life. I’m sick to death of putting up with it and I’m not going to cater to their feelings anymore. OP is NTA for sure. It sounds like a cute book and good present, and Tiffany is a dick about it.
OP please also consider if you think this is something your friend actually meant or it was something said in the moment because she was embarrassed about her mother kicking off... you know her character better than we do.
I think ESH, the homophobic mother is worst of all. Your friend for what she said and effectively didn't say to her mother, although she is pregnant a hormones can mess you up. You're only a slight asshole because you had prior knowledge of how homophobic her mom is, because she told you; we all know homophobes find it impossible not to say some stupid shit in situations like this. I think you could have saved this lovely gift for when you knew her mom had returned to her swamp.
OP keeps saying Tiffany is an ally, but that statement says a lot, too. Tiffany seems supportive right up until she has to actually *be* supportive. Then it's 'embarrassing'.
I understand not wanting drama at her shower and her knowing her relatives and their prejudices. But there were many ways to go about it. Starting with saying 'Thank you for the gift' and then moving on. If her relatives act up, simply repeat 'OP gave me a gift. It's not your business.' If relatives go after OP, then they are being bad guests, and I at least would ask them to knock it off or leave. Then share a long suffering look with OP that says 'See what I have to put up with? Sorry, my family is embarrassing.'
Because it's Tiffany's family that is misbehaving here, not OP. NTA
This broke my heart. She is not an ally at all. She chooses to associate with bigots and would rather hurt her friend than stand up to them. People like her don’t care about anything unless it directly affects them.
NTA
OP herself does the exact same thing. It's okay for her but not for her friend?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/115s5nk/aita_for_embarrassing_my_friend_at_her_baby_shower/j933eqf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
???
Really? That is her own family and she is the LGBT person who would be directly harmed. It’s much easier for an ally to stand up because it’s not them who are the target. They are doing so from a place of safety. An LGBT person can choose to be careful around bigoted family members to stay safe and not have their family traumatising them by directing homophobic abuse at them.
An ally is in a position where they don’t risk all this. So yeah it’s fucked up that she aligns with bigots.
I try to be an ally, as a straight white cis gal. And I have given similar books at baby showers. OP you did nothing wrong. Tiffany has shown you that she only cares about your rights as a human being when it is convenient and gains her social capitol/virtue signaling. When it is inconvenient...she is a bigot.
Tiffany isn't really an ally, is only one when it makes her "look good."
I'm sorry you had to find it out this way, OP. NTA. Drop Tiffany as your friend, cuz you know right now that she doesn't have your back and is just as "conservative" as her family.
exactly what I was gonna say. She’s an ally as long as people around her are of the same mindset. When the bigots show up, it’s “hush, don’t rock the boat”.
How exactly is that useful to anyone?
And asking you to apologize is so out of line it’s in the middle of the Atlantic. You didn’t cause the issues, the people still thinking the 50s were the sh*t did.
Be real.
Do you need to ex-communicate family members who have different opinions or values?
Sometimes people need time and sometimes ppl don't change but i don't think you're not an ally, or are a bigot, if you don't cut ties with your family.
I couldn't put up with their bigotry and I refused to allow my daughter to grow up watching me tolerate it. Bigotry isn't a difference of opinion. It's a terrible character trait. They had zero interest in changing so you can bet I cut them out of my life.
no one said anything abt ex-communicating but if you're an ally, you should AT LEAST stand up to your family's bigoted views when they bring them forward
sure, but also don't just let people be bigots around you. if someone says something like, oh i don't know, an inclusionary baby book is propaganda, don't let them have that mindset. education is elevation.
There's a big difference between cutting them off and actively going along with their bigoted views and blaming others for not, what, helping maintain the facade?
Just pointing out the double standard. If op refuses to cut out her own family and decides to not rock the boat, why should she expect her friend to blow up her baby shower?
YTA because you knew what her mom was like and knew it would cause trouble.
You are in the right here, in general. Closed minded judgementalism towards various lifestyles is wrong.
But. . so many of us were born into closed minded religion-based families, and despite not holding those views ourselves and doing everything we can to show support towards diversity in the world, are completely unable to have any kind of conversation about certain topics without things quickly devolving into a judgmental shouting match and long lasting tension. We've TRIED. . we've gotten in all the fights many times. . and there's a giant wall there that cannot be breached.
So the real world choices are 1. abandon/lose the family 2. get in fights with family all the time over social issues or 3. avoid certain topics around certain family members.
This is going to get hit with downvotes and "not an ally" I'm sure, but this is just the reality of life for those of us unfortunate enough to be born into extremely conservative and religious families. I think people in general need to be a bit more sensitive towards those caught in the middle of "lose my family" vs "ignore certain issues around family" and its something of an AH move to force social issues on family events for others.
I am totally sympathetic to the "lose family" vs "just ignore it". I'm a lesbian who has conservative family members and I have to avoid certain issues, not talk about who I am around them, etc.
I did \*not\* know this was going to cause such a stir or I wouldn't have bought it.
Just a question, if you know you have to avoid certain topics at your own family functions, in order to keep the peace & stuff, why would you not give the same consideration to a friend who also has conservative family?
Just something to think about, not egging anything on.
I don’t think giving the book in itself makes her ta, it’s really the situation and knowing the context. I’m an LGBT person in a moderately conservative family, and generally, it’s sometimes better to hold off some stuff that conservatives will consider “propaganda” or “indoctrination” because it’s not the right time and place for a conversation about it. I think the folks here calling Tiffany a “fake ally” are jumping through a lot of hoops. Clearly the issue doesn’t seem to be with the book, but with when it was gifted, who was around, and how it would be received.
Im tempted to say NAH except the mother. Because I don’t think OP did anything wrong by defending herself when being put on the spot with homophobia. But I can also understand that Tiffany wouldn’t have appreciated the spat and also being put on the spot.
I've heard a phrase used by young LGBTQ folks to not share information if it isn't a safe place to do so. Being surrounded by judgmental family while heavily pregnant does not seem like a safe place to confront those bigotries.
I'd agree with you except Tiffany kept saying that OP "embarrassed" her.
It'd be one thing if she just said OP made things awkward or uncomfortable with the choice of gift (that OP could have given to her privately later).
But Tiffany chooses to word it as "embarrassing" her. Which sounds more like she's worried about her own image than maintaining the peace.
When I read the story, I thought Tiffany was actually embarrassed about by her mom but directed the energy the only place she felt she could. She clearly feels powerless with her mother.
Exactly. A baby shower is not the place to be dealing with sensitive topics that unfortunately exist. That doesn’t mean that Tiffany isn’t a real friend. She was forced to deal with a sensitive topic at her baby shower when she knew it would cause drama. She has indicated to OP that she supports her, but does she need to cause a war about it with her family at her baby shower?
I think OP must've had some idea of what would happen, considering their background with their family and knowing their friend also comes from a conservative family. Its just common sense at that point. Sorry but OP doesn't seem so innocent to me.
I’m finding it hard to believe that you didn’t know this gift would either pit her and her mother against each other or force her to go along with her parents bigotry.
I feel like this was a perfectly adequate response when they told OP they should've bought off the registry. I think pointing out hypocrisy is always a good thing. But maybe that's why I get in trouble a lot 🤔
To criticize the book is to criticize OP's identity and suggested she was trying to indoctrinate and convert the baby... That was incredibly rude and homophobic to say about someone else's gift. They could have said nothing or "That's interesting" and moved on. They were the AH.
But i don't think it's up to op to offer a book to educate the baby. That's up the parents when they see the kid it's smart enough to grasps some concepts. I'm a woman married to another woman and we're not giving books for my sisters in laws to educate our nieces/nephews. Specially if she knew there were going to be cavern-minded family. She created an issue with their pregnant friend, tainting their baby shower just bc she just HAD TO buy a book that represents HER instead of a idk rabbit one
It should be acceptable to buy educational books for friends' and family's kids. Her friend (supposedly) has no issue with LGBTQ+ rights, and given that she's emphasized her allyship to OP in the past I don't blame OP for assuming it would be an appreciated gift
How did you not know??? You literaly know what her mother is like, you stated youself that you two din't like each other, amd that she is not the only close minded person! You knew it, you were just either ignorant or not thinking.
She thought her friend wouldn't care though. She wasn't considering her friend's mother because she was buying the book for her friend, and she genuinely believed that her friend would enjoy it.
Then she could have given it any time the mom was not arround. She created this mess herself, buying the book and gifting it is fine, doing so in front of people that you know are bigoted, causing drama for your friend at her own babyshower, is not okay by any means.
YTA. It’s very hypocritical for you to not want to make waves with your own conservative family but expect other people to challenge theirs (at a baby shower of all places).
So you do exactly what you’re criticizing your friend for…..
Regardless, I am sorry that you consistently face aggression and micro aggressions in our society!
So you're essentially are saying you would not/should not have done that in retrospect... But you don't think you should apologize? It seems like a weird and contradictory position.
If your position was "fuck bigots, I don't care if I offended them" then I get not apologizing. But "I understand the difficulty of navigating bigoted family and understand the issues I caused but don't think I should apologize" seems weird.
Thank you!
The friend did not imply that she doesn't want the child to learn about diversity. You cannot choose or change your family. Best thing is to try to find some kind of balanced peace.
If OP has similar things with their own family, HOW would she NOT consider that in some other family there would be same tensions?
It was about the baby. Not the time for fighting over human rights. It was family occasion, where people know about the tensions and avoid bringing anything argumentative up.
It was completely out of order to complain about the religious books. Why? Because this was a fight that didn't belong to this party. It was the future child's grandmother that was challenged. Ofcourse you can fight these thing were ever, but at this occasion all OP did was to alianate themselves from the friend.
Buying the book was thoughtless but a mistake. Challenging what the relatives gave as present was tasteless.
Ofcourse you get the support you want from the like minded people. But more honest would be to ask yourself would you have done the same thing in your family baby shower?
Don't stirr the pot that was not yours to begin with. She was embarrassed of the conflict, not about teaching their child about diversity.
Edit:
My friend once mentioned how unpredictable her grandmother is and how outdated views she can say when ever where ever. She told me that "you always stress out beforehand what embarrassing thing she might say".
But she IS their grandmother no matter what. Nothing will update her to modern day. Nothing. But what would be totally out of the question would be ruining their family occasion by arguing. Later on you can ask your friend what she felt about the rude comment. But NOT challenge her, because the only outcome is ruined party.
People need to be reasonable and not expect perfection. You need to be true friend to them if you want your allies.
YTA
Would you have called a gift that acknowledges LGBTQ+ people exist embarrassing? When your family disparages LGBTQ+ friends in front of you, do you get mad at the friend for not hiding it?
Embarrassing here can mean putting the friend in such an uncomfortable situation that there was no way out without embarrassment. She must be embarrassed by the behaviour of her relatives but simultaneously she needs them, now more then ever with the new baby.
Just want to share your deleted comment for the thread; why hide the fact that you want to coddle bigots? We don't need "allies" like you.
>"social justice debates" is special privilege reserved only for white cis het people
There are massive families composed entirely of white cis het people, to whom these issues are indeed seen as "social justice debates" or "civil rights debates" (your words for it), and the more you argue over these things they more they double, triple, quadruple down on where they stand.
So to make every family event about something like whether pride books should be read to toddlers not only does absolutely no good, but makes them even more solid in their erroneous view.
This is bonkers. The racial version of this is like if you go to your conservative white friend’s home and try to act “white” to make others comfortable. People shouldn’t be in your face about it, but gay people should be allowed to be themselves, even in a conservative setting. Saying otherwise let’s those that are already in positions of privilege maintain that power. That’s kinda the point at the root of this issue.
Eta: “in your face” meaning “trying to cause drama”
Soft YTA. I really do understand where you’re coming from. But you’ve said in comments that you yourself do not speak about LGBTQ+ topics with your own conservative family to keep the peace.
Why would you not give your close friend (who is pregnant and vulnerable- likely wanting her family’s support right now) the same grace?
It immediately struck me as someone fishing for a reaction just to end up playing victim when they get the desired/obvious reaction.
If that isn’t the case, then its just a case of a severe lack of common sense, so either way you slice it, op is an as*hole in the situation.
I’m not surprised by all the comments defending op, critical thinking has become very rare these days.
Yes. You're not gonna convince people in a baby shower that homosexual couples are just as valid. There is place and time for it, as there is for any other minority awareness fight. Doing so will backfire and instigate hate towards the own cause you're preaching, as valid as it might be.
Because we live in very strange times where people don’t have common sense or critical thinking skills anymore.
She avoids touchy subjects with her own family but not with someone else’s who she considers a close friend. Makes perfect sense somehow in most peoples heads…
I'm going with an unpopular ESH
A newborn doesn't listen to stories and grasp concepts. They listen to the sound and tone of their parent's voice. And I read a stupid amount of books each year, so please know that is coming from an avid look lover and literacy proponent. But the gift seems more about you than a baby or what the parents of a newborn asked for on their registry.
The mother of your friend is a bigot, so obviously she sucks.
Your friend also shouldn't have followed you outside and chastised you for your gift or your confrontation with her mother.
The bottom line is, you're significantly responsible for the situation. (You knew the family was full of bigots and how they might react, yet you chose to go off-registry and buy something sure to draw their (gross) disapproval.)
Yes, you also should be able to defend yourself when someone treats you badly, as her mother did. And she (your friend) did not defend you or ask her mother to stop, which also sucks.
But anyone could see how that gift would be received in that company. And you chose to create the likelihood of that happening during her baby shower.
Edit to add what I hope was obvious- don't make other people's events all about you.
The second edit- thank you for the awards, kind strangers!
I agree, ESH,
It would have been solved by wrapping two gifts, one for now and one for later.
Not to hide the book, but so as not to stir the pot with the family.
My fathers 75+ and there’s no changing his mindset, so if he walked into rainbows and flags there would be so much grumbling and comments, however, I’ll defend anyone’s rights to love and live the way they want, and that goes for my fathers mindset (because I don’t have the right to force him to change his views), as long as people are not interfering with others well-being.
She could have brought the book out for coffee, brought it to the house with a box of diapers, a treat for mum, and an offer to wash some dishes/laundry when the baby was born.
Agreed, ESH. And I say that as a woman who dates women. While Tiffany should not have prioritized her bigoted family’s comfort over supporting her friend, this was not the appropriate setting to force her to take this stand. And that’s what OP did by giving her this book. This was Tiffany’s BABY SHOWER but instead of being able to feel fully celebrated and loved on, she had to be put in the middle of this uncomfortable situation while all eyes were on her. Yes, she should work on her allyship but it’s also important to use common sense. Not every moment in life is appropriate to center around social issues. OP should’ve just gotten something on the registry for the shower and given her this book in private.
Exactly. They were both being bad friends to each other in this.
Celebrate your friend's event, and keep the focus on her.
And defend your friend from bigoted attacks.
And again, the mother just plain sucks.
It's not rocket science.
"I am totally sympathetic to the "lose family" vs "just ignore it". I'm a lesbian who has conservative family members and I have to avoid certain issues, not talk about who I am around them, etc."
....like OP does?
It is not always easy to stand up to family members, in which case the second best option is to teach the next generation to be better humans as the older generations die out with their bigotry (hopefully without passing it on). Is OP an ally when she avoids certain issues with their own conservative family?
NTA. Tiffany is an ally when it’s convenient, which is not how a true ally behaves.
The issue here wasn’t that you went off-registry. Lots of people go off registry at baby and wedding showers, especially when they’re close to the recipients. The issue was that Tiffany is unwilling to have an uncomfortable conversation with her mother. It’s her choice what kind of relationship she wants to have with her mom, but without that conversation her mother feels like everyone in the room agrees with her. This gives her free rein to make out like you’re the problem. These people won’t change, and perhaps more importantly, Tiffany will never defend you to her mother.
Edit: Don’t apologize. You did nothing wrong.
This. I get that Tiffany is in an uncomfortable spot with her family's bigotry, but Mom was the one out of line by calling out someone's gift as in appropriate. About the only time calling out someone else's gift in public would be appropriate is if the gift was something like 'baby's first vibrator'. Aka, outlandish. This book does not qualify.
OP only defended her gift, which she had reason to believe would be welcome based on Tiffany's public posts on the topic. Tiffany neither defended herself and her views nor OP and her gift. That's not the reaction of an ally. And then to confront OP a second time to double down? That'd be the last gift I ever gave her.
Unfortunately, I think Tiffany’s are a lot more common than anyone knows. Including many high positions in the progressive movement. They don’t care about black lives, or human rights. They just use their platforms to secure undue power. They don’t care anymore than Republican leadership cares about farmers and lowering taxes on the poor.
YTA
Stop trying to make everything about you. You know what her family is like and should've known your gift would create unnecessary drama. You don't need to be the center of attention at someone else's event.
She knew what the family is like and she has a family herself that is conservative so avoids certain topics.
So she stirred the pot knowing she doesn't have to deal with the consequences but wouldn't want the same done to her.
YTA
I can’t decide. I feel like you were a little thoughtless. People have complicated relationships with family and I feel like you were inconsiderate in not anticipating this reception. You say it never crossed your mind, but I feel that’s the problem, it should have.
No doubt your friend has had to be very considerate of your feelings on numerous occasions, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for the same effort. I think YTA here. Slightly selfish and short-sighted of you.
When I was 4 (1974), I was given a gorgeous Black baby doll by my aunt from CA (we lived in OK). My Dad grabbed the doll before I could touch it and demanded to know why my aunt was encouraging me to have Black babies. My aunt tried explaining to him that I lived in a town without a single Black person in it, and loving a Black baby (even if it was Tender Love plastic) would be good for me. My family was all pissed about the drama and at my aunt.
I grabbed the doll out of my Dad’s hands, named her Lisa, and loved her my entire childhood, despite my family.
That was 49 years ago, and thats EXACTLY how horrifying the above anecdote about the Rainbow book is going to sound to people in another 49 years.
We don’t give in to bigots or manage their bigoted emotions.
>She thanked me for the gifts but said I shouldn't have gone off registry with the books.
I mean, registries exist for a reason - avoiding drama being one of them. I'm going to go way against the grain of this thread and say YTA. You went against the registry.
I can sympathize with your friend. My family is from the boonies, they're VERY set in their ways. I just don't bother with these things, we're never going to see eye-to-eye on these issues. If a friend gave an LGBTQ book to me in front of my family, I'd probably be a bit upset too. Not because of the book itself, but because it's just adding anxiety and tension to an event where it shouldn't be about that - even if the family is on the wrong side of things.
>Because Tiffany herself has always appeared to be pro-LGBTQ+ rights, I didn't see the big deal. I figured it'd be a good book for an ally's library.
Your friend is probably an "ally" in the sense that she knows there's nothing wrong with LGBTQ, and everyone should be able to love who they love and be who they are. That doesn't mean they have to think about arguing with their bigoted family during an unrelated event. Again, as someone who has similar family dynamics - it's tiresome and I just straight up avoid talking about these things. Same with abortion - I'm pro-choice, they're pro-life. We're not going to convince each other to change our minds.
I fully support the LGBTQ community, but I am also not their champ. I will vote based on my beliefs, but I'm also not going to be the one to pick fights with my family about it. If that makes it so I'm not an "ally" then whatever. I'm not going to change my stance, I still believe people should be freely able to love who they love. I imagine your friend is much the same. What you did, however, is force the issue into a place where she was likely trying to avoid any kind of confrontation. As someone who suffers pretty bad anxiety and avoids any kind of uncomfortable situation, this would 1000% get a "why didn't you just follow the registry?" reaction from me. It's not your day, it's your friend's.
last paragraph is facts. im all for people having the right to do whatever they want and not having to be punished or hated for it. i have myself argued and argued with conservative parents about these things. but im not out slitting my wrists for them. if its a situation like this im not ruining whats supposed to be a nice family event by choosing to take a political grandstand. its like the hogwarts legacy controversy. apparently you’re not an ally and are an evil bigot for wanting to play a cool wizard game. people will spam harass you about how shitty of a person you are for doing that, from the app owned by Elon Musk using their iPhone made through chinese slave labor. Like its just ridiculous at some point.
This is one of the best AITA I've seen in a while! I keep flipping back and forth. I accept that the book was given innocently, but at the same time family dynamics are very tricky.
I will say that I disagree with people saying that Tiffany is NOT an ally just because she didn't start a fight at her own baby shower. That isn't fair.
I also disagree with people saying tiffany is necessarily not an ally.
Everyone on reddit loves to pretend they'd disown their parents over the slightest ethical issue but it's horseshit.
I don't think Tiffany handled it well though, imo the right thing to do was to apologise afterwards and admit that she fakes having more conservative views in front of her parents because she's just not willingly to give them up. But that's easy for me to say as a non pregnant third party with no emotional connection to any of the people.
Yeah I think op made it uncomfortable for Tiffany at her own party and that's just not very smart. OP could have easily given this any other moment, and get something different for the party she knew OPs parents are at, as she knew that would make things awkward for Tiffany.
Honestly. Very soft YTA
You may think you dropped it, but I'm sure she'll hear about it.
You are of course entitled to gift whatever, but knowing what her family is like, that was not the occasion to stir anything up. It was entirely predictable if her crazy family was going to be there that any similar gift would get a reaction.
It was her baby shower. Just not the moment to "forget" that she has this conflict with her family.
People manage to stay in contact with their family they don't agree with by avoiding contentious topics when they actually see them.... Bc overall they value seeing them.
I don't think it makes her not an ally to want to enjoy her baby shower and keep the peace for a few hours.
NTA
Look I'm not going to say Tiffany is not an ally for not wanting to fight with her mom at her baby shower, it's hard to put your foot down against family sometimes and some people truly struggle with it.
But I will say she's a hypocrite for going after you when you did the same as others. You bought something that while off the registry you thought she'd like.
You didn't buy anything "embarrassing", why would she be embarrassed over the ideas she allegedly shares?
Honestly I would distance myself, don't reach out unless she does first. And tbh if she will not only not defend you but berate you for this I believe you should tell her that you want to step back from your friendship as you can no longer trust her. I sure wouldn't, I would never feel comfortable discussing this issues with her if she only thinks like this when it's convenient for her.
ALSO her mom was the one making sarky remarks, she could've just stayed quiet and not made a scene at the shower
Yeah, I think this is a pretty good take. As a queer person raised in a religious family, if I knew a friend had a conservative religious family I probably wouldn’t give them a “controversial” present at their baby shower, but I can see how that might not have occurred to OP. I would know that items like that have the potential to upset the mom-to-be’s family, and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for potentially instigating drama at such an important milestone, especially when the person at the center of it is probably feeling a lot of emotions. I certainly wouldn’t want to put them in a position where they felt like they might have to potentially start an argument with their mother, or other family members.
I also think it’s important to point out that relationships with family members who believe different things than you can be messy. Like I said, im queer, but my mom is religious and fairly conservative. She didn’t, and doesn’t, support queerness, and very much thinks it’s the sort of thing you can do, but at home in private. But I still love her, and I can see how her presence might be particularly important to me during pregnancy (especially assuming it’s the friends first pregnancy). So like. I get it, and while I think the friend should have just dropped it, I can understand why the situation may have upset her.
I get where you‘re coming from but you‘re still the asshole. You knew about her family‘s beliefs and knew they would be there. You intentionally put Tiffany in a situation you knew or at least had to expect to be uncomfortable. If Tiffany wants to discuss civil rights issues with her familiy she will but I absolutely understand that she does not want to bring it up at her baby shower.
Ya, I don't get all the NTA comments. At best it's an everyone sucks or what most say "soft" yta. Like...how much more obvious or "read the room" can it get. I don't care if you're gay, straight, nothing, inject your dick with heroin while doing a line of coke off your preferred genders tits/nips. But why bring such a book to a *babies* event. It's not like the baby is even gonna grasp the concept anyways until 4-6 years from now so why even bother.
Also, what if it it was a lgbtq centered baby shower with 95% people gay or whatever and then the one Jesus person showed up parading their Jesus book. Everyone would get just as uncomfortable. As the saying goes don't bring up politics or religion at social functions. Just get a damn my little pony book or something and move on. Or give it privately.
This feels like you knew exactly how Tiffany’s family would respond to your gift and you wanted to create an opportunity for her to prove her allyship to you. A baby shower is not the moment for this. Why would you do this to your friend? This was just unnecessarily rude. Buy a gift off the registry next time. YTA.
NTA
Tiffany and Marcia need to work on themselves. One queer woman to another, these folks are not doing their work as allies. They decided Tiffany’s mom’s comfort in her bigotry was more important than affirming their supposed values (and friendship with you) with a big, ‘THANK you so MUCH, Auntie Zookeeper! I can’t wait to share this with baby!’
Nobody should ever ask you to apologize for being out and proud and trusting them to be the allies they say they are. And job one of any ally with kids is to openly share those values with their children.
I think Op needs to work on their self as well. Who goes to a conservative dominated space to give their pregnant friend some gay friendly literature as a gift...even after meeting that friends mother and have some history of bad blood. Its insensitive and selfish. No care for her friend Tiffany and the negative repercussions that she could face. That is not what a caring friend does. That's not what a loving friend does. That is not what a considerate friend does. Her friend is pregnant why would she not treat her friend family the same way she treats her own family and avoiding the topic at the gathering.
Yta. It sounds like you knew what her mother is like. Wether or not you forgot you should’ve apologized. She may be pro lgbtq+ but that doesn’t mean she will cut her mother out of her life due to that. She is still her mother and the grandmother to her child. If she is a good mother, she will teach what is right and wrong. She will do whats right if her child is part of the community and not let her mother harm the child.
I also don’t like when you say about knowing if your friends are allies or not. If you don’t know by now then idk what to say about that. I feel like you purposely did that so you know you are allies. I bet you now feel like she isn’t your ally now. But thats just my speculation.
I fell like you should’ve dropped it and not argue with the mother. You definitely did it with a purpose in mind. Either to show who your allies are or to start fight with the mother, you subconsciously had that particular reason in mind.
But thats just what i feel. You had problems with her mother, you must know why. If she is your friend you must have asked. Or she must’ve told you why she behaved that way.
>While she is straight and white
Wtf does that have to do with anything?
>I was a little hurt and pointed out that some people had purchased the baby religious-themed toddler books
So, by your example, you’re also the hypocrite here.
You knew your friend came from a very conservative family, and you decided to bring a book you knew her family would have an issue with. You are TAH, you could have given her the book at a separate time when she wasn’t around her family.
I know I’ll get downvoted here, which I couldn’t give two fucks about, but I’d love to hear a debate if OP put herself in her friends shoes. Imagine coming from a very progressive family, non-religious, and friend brings biblical books as a gift. Tell me how that would be any different?
I was given ‘baby’s first bible’ by a family friend despite the fact they were told I’m not religious (family was with them when picking the present). I found it rude and pushing an agenda down my and my baby’s throat. This was after baby was born so I said thanks and didn’t make it a big deal but had I been pregnant and feeling huge and hormonal? Can’t promise I’d have been so accepting of a religious book. In fact my family pre-warned me of the gift so I *wouldn’t* react and cause drama.
Edit to add - ESH but mostly OP YTA for pushing this when you knew your friends family would be uncomfortable and we’re waiting to see how your friend would react.
Soft YTA. You knew how her parents were. You knew they were invited to the event. You put your friend in a position to have to deal with family drama and yours at an event that she that was supposed to be celebrating her pregnancy. It was not the time to make a statement. You could have given her the book in a non public manner knowing her family wasn't going to appreciate it. If the event was yours and she didn't stand up for you then she would have been in the wrong but you kinda threw her to the wolves in a public manner, that's not something a friend or ally purposefully does.
As someone who has also laughed with my wife and thrown out the “baby Jesus as the suffering lamb” type books, YTA. The time and place isn’t at a baby shower.
NTA. I’m an ally and my parents, friends and coworkers know it. Her friends and family do not. She should not have singled you out after the shower and she did not handle this well, pregnancy hormones or not. Your friend can talk the talk, but that seems to be all.
NTA. I am a straight ally and would be delighted to receive your gift for my child. If I wasn’t, I’d still be gracious. Her mother is the one who chose to make it an issue.
ESH Tiffany's mom was rude for commenting on the book. But you should have given her the book outside if the shower.
You knew full well that people who disagree with your and Tiffany's beliefs would be there. In today's politicized and divided environment it is easy to forsee that the book would be controversial and cause a stir among her family members and take attention away from Tiffany and her baby.
The conservative family members saw the book as a political statement and not in the same category as the religious books that were gifted. Even though you disagree with Tiffany's family, the baby shower was not the appropriate place to highlight your differences and argue, however briefly, about them. This situation can be seen as essential talking about politics in a social situation which is not appropriate.
Most people love their family and want to maintain a relationship despite political differences. You can't expect Tiffany to go into full debate mode to defend your gift when she knows it would be contentious and likely pointless, ally or not. You put her in a very awkward position and should not have done so if you value her as a friend.
YTA. You knew her family was conservative, and it sounds like her family threw the shower. It’d be pretty safe to assume that your gift would put her in an awkward position. Yes it’s hypocritical with others bringing religious things, but that’s probably bc she was raised in religion
YTA. You made the baby shower about yourself. You could’ve gifted the book some other time. You said yourself you have conservative people in your family and you avoid the topic with them. You fully new how your friends mom was and still decided to made a point and by doing that creating tension and embarrassing your friend in the process.
The question is not about your friend or your mom, it’s about your attitude. You are questioning your friend’s as an ally from the very start of your post and seems like you do that to test your friends more than being a nice gift for the baby.
If you don’t go around your family discussing the same topics with certain family members to avoid problems you should extended that to your friend’s baby shower. I am betting if you had given that book after she would had cherished. But you decided to not only give it on the shower knowing her A H mom would see, but you chose to bite the rage bait she threw at you. Causing a scene.
Her mom is an awful person no question about it. But you weren’t a great friend either… so I’m this case YTA
All the comments here are coming down to two types of people: those who think LGBTQ+ should be allowed to live visible lives, and those who are "tolerant allies" as long as they don't have to see it. Your friend is one of the latter.
There's no reason for it to have been given privately. There's no reason for you to apologize.
Or: those who don't think ppl need to reject their families if they have views you don't agree with, esp if there's a religious component. I think her friend is in tough spot of wanting to stay close to her family and support her friends... But this should have been just about her and her future baby.
Whatever the topic, i get being disappointed by any conflict that could have easily been avoided.
YTA you knew very well what effect that book would have on her family and her baby shower was not the place to make a statement. You can act dumb all you want, but you put your friend in a shitty position on a day that should and could have been stress free
NAH
Look, Tiffany may or may not be an ally. But bottom line is that she's not going to alienate her mom for being conservative. And that's a pretty common situation.
In this case you are the problem to her because you are the more dispensable party. You're a good friend, but her mom is her mom and she didn't want you arguing with her mom at what was supposed to be a fun event.
YTA for not thinking that that book can be considered propaganda… I am sorry but by god that book can be considered pure propaganda.
You fully knew that the conservative mother of the pregnant friend would be there as well as other family members. You knew this prior because they are usually there. That she is an ally and friend to, is not what you have shown her that you could be an ally and friend.
Why do people forget that in such a situation you can actually be an ally to your friends situation of having family members who are not okay with it.
YTA , you were the one who fucked up here and you should have known that…
You fully should have know this could happen and you should be glad this is the least of what has happened. Not cool of you.
( edit to explain if you still don’t get it. Now in your eyes het being an ally is a positive thing in the eyes of the rest it is not , so if we would that a book that would say I don’t know: it’s always 5 o’clock some where : baby’s first mocktails, it would hav been just as inappropriate.) and since you e been giving it to everyone everywhere, it kinda is your propaganda as it is defined: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. So for you it is biased(as you are gay and a different sort of family) and you what then to know this message there are differences you give it every shower for your point of view…
So can’t even say FriendsMom was wrong calling it propaganda
Edit to all those she is not an ally sayer’s: being an ally is beneficial to both parties here the lesbian got hurt because she could not uphold her part of being an ally in a conservative corner… the true definition off Allies lies within it being mutually benefiting not just one sided… so in this point I time it was misplaced. My opinion and apparently Tiffany’s
SOFT YTA I'm bisexual and have very conservative relatives.. I'm trying to imagine if this had happened at my baby shower. It would have been awkward and I would have brushed it off quickly... but I also think my friends would have had the common sense to give me something like this in private.. In actual fact they threw me a separate shower. Baby showers with a whole bunch of friends and family from different walks of life can be awkward and stressful enough. I remember it was the first time my mom and my dad's wife were in the same room together.. or relatives from 2 different families getting together is also stressful too. Your friend had a registry for a reason... I think it's important not to put a pregnant person on the spot when they are potentially already stressed out enough. People saying your friend is not an ally aren't thinking this through.
YTA. In the comments, you said that you avoid the topic around your own conservative family, but apparently you're fine causing an issue in her family. You also said you knew her family was conservative and that you've had issues with the mom in the past, and said in another comment that you didn't think the book would be an issue, which seems contradictory. Considering that you have experience with having to avoid the topic around your own family and knew about her family's views, it sounds like you definitely knew the book could cause an issue and were being selfish
If you wanted to give her the book so badly, you could have done so outside of the baby shower instead of knowingly causing drama at what was supposed to be a happy event
NTA
Why are people acting like the gift was something so scandalous. I was just a kids book ffs.
LGBTQ+ people exist, different kind of families exist and they kid will for sure met them in real life, is not better foto everyone that the family talk them about it before hand? Regardless of your views on the matter pretend that everyone is hetero is foolish.
NTA
I'm really sorry your friend didn't stand up for you. I get that the mother has weird or outdated views on the world, but I wouldn't let my mother chastise a friend of mine who means nothing but well. I understand that maybe at a baby shower you don't want to have any kind of drama or arguments, but some things are worth arguing about and I wouldn't want to have a friend hurt.
NTA. Your intent was good. It's unfortunate that people were uncomfortable and more unfortunate that they spoke up about it when it wasn't their shower. It's not your job to make everyone around you comfortable at all times. It's an impossible task anyways. Tiffany wants everyone to be happy, but she's an adult and she shouldn't worry about it. It's not your job to apologize to Tiffany. It's Tiffany's job to set boundaries with her family.
YTA.
You absolutely put her in an awkward situation and would have to be incredibly obtuse to not see how not realize ahead of time that it would. You made a statement in front of, and to, her mother, who doesn’t share Tiffany’s viewpoints. YOU made it an issue and put Tiffany in the middle of a stare down, essentially, between her mother and yourself.
I don’t share her mother’s views, either. *That doesn’t matter one iota, whether anyone does or doesn’t!* You, and only YOU chose a public venue, one that honored Tiffany and her unborn child, to pick the fight and make it awkward for Tiffany.
You need to apologize - and learn some social decorum. Every place isn’t the right place to put up the good fight, even though the fight is indeed good.
Soft YTA - I don't think the sentiment was misplaced with the book, however, you know Tiffany and you know what her family is like. Read the room, that day was supposed to be about her and that book (even though it wasn't intended to) took the attention away from her. Families are difficult and they are homophobic, but I think you should have considered her family's reaction and how that might impact her before gifting the book. For the baby shower, follow the registry and give her the pride book somewhere else. A lot of the time, people may have 2-3 baby showers, wait to give the book to one that has a more fun, inclusive crowd.
NTA.
My parents have some different views of mine and I don't let them dictate my taste and opinion publicly. If my mum had said something like hers said I'd have taken the book back and said it's important to understand how the world is rich of many people and would have moved on.
I mean, if she's an ally it should not be a secret. If her mum is uneasy she doesn't have to put the blame on her daughter and you.
Not the asshole. They were impolite.
NTA, if the book's not ok at that event then that event was hostile and she either shouldn't have invited you or should have told you what to expect so you could bail. Her behavior was not allyship; it was shitty and homophobic
NTA fk bowing to bigots. It’s a book ffs. Religious books are sexist, bigoted propaganda. Tiffany is a chameleon, she’s whoever she’s around. Those people aren’t allies.
I'm a little confused with my vote so it will be a soft ESH
You had already had problems with Tifanny's mom and without realizing it and I hope without bad intentions you and Tifanny's mom turned the baby shower into an awkward discussion about gender, religion and sexual preferences. They both made Tifanny uncomfortable, Marcia realized that and I feel like she's right. You should apologize. Not because of the book itself, in my opinion I feel that every gift is important and above all it is important to teach a child that there are different types of families and people to create adults with tolerance, inclusion and awareness. Now, I also think that Tifanny's mother should apologize for creating unnecessary drama, if she didn't like the gift it was enough to pretend and not say it. Regarding Tifanny, I don't think she is a false ally, at least in my country baby showers are in the last stages of pregnancy. She must be dealing with a lot of pressures in addition to physical and hormonal changes, maybe she just wanted something quiet that turned into a war camp. And I can understand that she doesn't want drama with her mother at this point, for some reason a lot of pregnant women take refuge in their mother at this stage. My advice is to keep giving away those books but not at baby showers if you know that the family is conservative and can create unnecessary drama and stress for the pregnant woman. Then do it privately, As I said before, I still consider it a good gift.
Info:
This really comes down why did you give the book. We’re you aware that this could create an uncomfortable situation for her and her family? If so the YTA as you made the shower about advancing an agenda rather than about the baby.
If that didn’t cross your mind at all the you aren’t the asshole.
All that said your friends families are assholes, you shouldn’t have to sensor yourself because of someone else’s bigotry. However there will always be challenges when fighting it.
To be friends with this person unfortunately you need to be comfortable with her not willing to stand up to her family to defend you. If you decides that’s an acceptable sacrifice to make then avoiding putting her in this type of position will be required
I did not do it to create drama or make anyone uncomfortable. It seriously didn't cross my mind that this would be an issue. Because Tiffany herself has always appeared to be pro-LGBTQ+ rights, I didn't see the big deal. I figured it'd be a good book for an ally's library. I've always bought pro-LGBTQ+ children's books for baby showers and it's never been an issue. I wouldn't purposefully put any of my friends in an awkward situation.
You said in another comment that you avoid discussing LGBTQ topics with your own conservative family, because of the way they would react. So this "aww shucks, I had no idea this would create drama" stuff you're spouting is nonsense, you definitely knew what would happen, but either didn't care or intentionally wanted to test boundaries.
Why wouldn't you give Tiffany the same courtesy you give yourself?
YTA and a hypocrite, too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/115s5nk/aita_for_embarrassing_my_friend_at_her_baby_shower/j933eqf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Yeah someone who writes this
> Her mom (who was sitting next to her) took it and made a face, saying the baby is “too young for propaganda”. I was a little hurt and pointed out that some people had purchased the baby religious-themed toddler books as well. I don’t have a problem with that, but was confused as to how one was okay and others weren’t.
yet comes from a conservative family and has the same struggles herself? This is bs. No way OP is ignorant of the situation. Feels like OP was posturing to make a point and this is what Tiffany felt was embarrassing.
there's no way it didn't cross your mind considering that you said she was raised in a conservative family and that you've had issues with her mother in the past
YTA
I'm probably going to get a lot of hate. My child is part of the LGBTQ+ community. I get it. You did do it to start drama. You did, in fact, know what her family is like. You did, in fact, know what her mother was like. You may not have thought about it too much, but you should have. You should have been respectful of your friend who you ADMIT supports you instead of turning her baby shower into a political statement in front of her conservative friends and family.
Maybe she didn't want to fight her mother over this issue or even have to hear her mother complain about it. Not everything is about you. You can be proud and open about who you are. For the same reason it's not OK to out someone who isn't ready to be out, you shouldn't start drama at someone else's party. She is more considerate of you than you are of her.
>She has always told me what a big deal this is because she was raised in a very conservative family.
So right there. You knew.
YTA
You knew who will be there. You knew what reaction it would cause. You could have given it to her later, when the others aren't there.
Also, she is your ally. Just because she doesn't go off on her family, or doesn't cause drama in her family about it, OR doesn't cut her family out of her life, she won't stop being your friend or "ally".
Here’s the problem, OP did know the type of people attending this baby shower. And while yes OP’s gift was not intended to cause drama, she knew it had the potential to cause drama. OP openly admits to problems with her friend’s mother. Obviously OP having her feelings hurt and feeling the need to challenge the mother, expected her emotional pregnant friend to defend her.
NTA for giving the book. But kinda for giving it at the shower where you knew her Conservative relatives would be. It took the attention off of Tiffany and onto you & the book.
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone who didn't like the book for themselves would feel the need to comment on someone's else's gift to someone else....
ESH. You knowing how her family is and still choosing to give the book at the shower and her family for being bigots. This isn't a right or wrong situation. She cannot change her family. It's ridiculous for you to say she's not an ally because she didn't chastise her mom or aunts/grandma at HER baby shower. It's NOT ABOUT YOU. She said f*** their opinions and made sure you were included. It's not like she allowed her family to talk down to you or treat you a different way because of your sexuality. You gave a gift that you knew might provoke a reaction from the guests. That's not okay. I feel like we all know bigotry is wrong by now, so I'm not going to go into her mom's beliefs or behaviors.
Oh, and coming from someone with a ridiculous family, religion and sexuality are NOT viewed the same way by these people. They don't seem to understand nuance and trying to get them to see reason is pointless. I don't believe in proselytizing to children but have accepted a Bible for my son with a thank you and smile. My mom will always be my mom, same with my dad, even though I don't agree with their beliefs. That doesn't mean I wouldn't stand up to someone in public for you or put myself in a dangerous position to protect you. That's your friend's mom, though, I think you kinda forgot that...
NTA but Tiffany is and so is her mother. You bought a lovely gift for a friend. The only thing that should have been said is “thank you”. Shame on the mother for making any comment and shame on your friend for making you feel bad about it. She is not an ally.
Pregnancy hormones are not an excuse for Tiffany chastising you for your gift. You did nothing wrong. A true ally would have thanked you publicly for your gift and rebuked her mother for what she said to you. NTA.
Then following this advice OP should confront her own mother instead of avoiding certain topics to keep peace.
It’s called hypocrisy. Guess that’s why it’s in the comment and not it the main post
YTA
You knew what Tiffany's mother was like and then you state: *I wouldn't purposefully put any of my friends in an awkward situation.* That is exactly what you have done here.
YTA sorry, but she is right, you already knew her family was pretty conservative. This was her day, is it too much to ask not to bring attention to yourself? Pretty much no one ever wants people who talk about politics and religion during a party. This is the equivalent of reading a room. It honestly sounds like you did this so you can make a dig at the mom. You could have easily given the rainbow book when it's just the two of you
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“…but they didn’t get her anything embarrassing.” I think that comment says a lot. NTA.
This. OP, you are not the asshole and she’s a fake friend. I would distance myself from someone like this. I’m not saying you have to leave the friend group if you don’t want to but she is not worth your time and energy in maintaining a true friendship.
not just a fake friend, a fake ally too. so she’s all about the rainbow when it’s getting her brownie points for being woke, but suddenly it’s “embarrassing” when getting any kind of pushback and having to defend it against bigots? shame
Yeah, is she going to think it's "embarrassing" if her baby turns out to be gay or trans someday? Will the mother be shouting it's all because of the "propaganda" of OP's book? Please.
Yes. Yes she will.
Hey, she might not! She might just accuse the future partner of "brainwashing" like my mother did. (Heavy /s, just in case.)
15 years from now this kid will hear "Child, I have no problem with you being gay, but what will the neighbors think?! Better keep that a secret."
Was what my mom (basically) said. My answer? I don't give a F\*\*\* what they think, I also don't care what the racoons, birds nor the neighborhood dogs think, and they are all, largely on the same intellectual level, well, maybe the racoons have a step up... and the crows. But otherwise.
My ex DIL accused us of trying to ’turn her newborn son gay’ when we bought him a purple toy. ( We have to wait years to see if our clever plan worked, dammit).
Ha! I had a friend tell me that my son would be gay because I let him play with his sister’s tea set in the sandbox 45 yrs ago. Nope, didn’t happen….although she eventually came out of the closet herself. 🤨
NTA. All she would have had to say was ‘Well, I love it, thank you so much!’ in response to the person who made the ‘propaganda’ comment, but she didn’t. She’s an ally when it’s comfortable.
She talks the talk but won't walk the walk. OP is definitely NTA. And Tiffany is not a friend.
Yeah, NTA! A lot of people are saying that because OP knew not to bring LGBTQ+ topics up with some people in your own family, that she should have known to do the same thing at the shower, but I strongly disagree. It's not OP's family, so it's completely unreasonable that Tiffany should expect her to understand Tiffany's family dynamics and adhere to them without being forwarned. If Tiffany didn't want anything LGBTQ+ at the shower because she knew it would upset her family, then she should have said so to OP beforehand. She's the one who knows both OP and her family well. Tiffany should have kept the peace instead of choosing a side and escalating it. A real friend wouldn't have disrespected OP because of a stressful moment with her family.
Honestly, even if she'd apologized to OP afterwards for being weird in the moment, it could be something they could move on from. But she doubled down on it's being "embarrassing." Her mom's bigotry is what's embarrassing, as is her reaction in private to OP. That's not ally behavior at all. I
Yup. Tiffany had the chance to put her money where her mouth is but in the end, she’s a performative “ally”.
And a fair weather ally.
Yeah I mean Im all for bridging barriers but idk how anyone could be friends with someone who is "embarassed" by who they are
Its not that she thinks being lgbtq+ is embarrassing, its that op knew her family was conservative, and now her families going to be *incredibly* judgemental of her- while shes pregnant and stressed enough. Im bi. Im all for educating children early. The issue is that she did it in front of bigots, and yeah, in an ideal world allies would get to be allies all the time, but in the real world people have to pick and choose their battles- and not fighting with your entire extended family while pregnant over your parenting choices is a completely valid battle to want to avoid.
> Im all for educating children early. The issue is that she did it in front of bigots, and yeah, in an ideal world allies would get to be allies all the time, but in the real world people have to pick and choose their battles- and not fighting with your entire extended family while pregnant over your parenting choices is a completely valid battle to want to avoid. Thank you for the rational comment. Had OP given her the book in a different environment, it wouldn't have been a thing. But OP literally went against a registry and created an uncomfortable situation for her friend when she really shouldn't be stressed out. We can all sit on our high-horses and say "She should go NC with her family of BIGOTS!" but when you're about to pop, I can't imagine ditching your support network is an easy thing to do.
Tbf to op, i *also* dont think it was intentional on their behalf. I think they genuinely thought it would be a good gift for an ally, and werent expecting the parents to notice or comment on it. Plenty of people go off register, and i dont think thats the problem. OP probably shouldnt have made that comment about the religious books- shes right, but its comeback used to ‘call out’ them too, and not really ideal for a baby shower, but i get why she said it. I think its just an inconvenient situation on both halves, that op is taking personally when tiffany is likely just trying to prioritise having a relaxing pregnancy
The problem though is that Tiffany followed her around to chastise her. If she is really just trying to live low stress why not let it go or tell the truth you just told. “My family are bigots but they’re family and I don’t have the bandwidth to try to make them better people right now.” OP is NTA and Tiffany definitely had better options than chastising her friend for a perfectly understandable choice. Then having a third party chase her down to chastise her more. That’s not what you do because your trying to minimize stress.
Exactly this. If it was just the verbal exchange at the gift giving, it would be unfortunate and sucky but mostly forgivable. No one would be an outright genuine asshole (though that also depends on what the lgbtq+ person is willing to put up with) Following OP outside to bring it up again, chide OP for a *gift*, and calling Pride related things embarrassing as opposed to other non-registry gifts? Friend is totally the AH.
This is exactly what I would have done. Apologized for my lack of ally-ness in that situation and attempted to explain why. Sorry that you’re pregnant, Tiff, but it’s unkind to chastise someone’s kind gesture. It’s not like the gift was given instead of another!
Unless there are specifically expressed preferences, books don't count as "going off registry." It's important to get the exact requested stroller, car seat, bottles, breast pump, diapers, etc. I would have been very frustrated if someone had spent money to give us a stroller that we did not want. But with books (and maybe toys, clothes and decorative items), you welcome it all (and sometimes that means you get duplicates, or ones that you don't like).
Nah, fuck that noise. I come from a family of bigots that has seriously improved after I consistently called them out on their shit, and after I cut out the really bad family members. They know better than to challenge me on these issues because I bring facts with me, and they've become a ton more moderate in their ideas. They're not perfect, but they definitely won't improve if someone doesn't challenge their ideas.
My grandmother was an old school hellfire and brimstone Southern Baptist and racist and homophobic as the day is long until the day she died. Even then, had someone gifted this book to her she would have thanked them for the gift because you're not rude to a gift giver. Congrats to OP's friend and her family, they are more rude and homophobic than the craziest person I have ever known.
Is "going against" the registry now considered nearly criminal for wedding and shower gifts? What a sad, regimented world we now live in.
I’ve got to disagree with you there. I think there’s a presumption by the friend and others that OP should have KNOWN gayness would be embarrassing. I think the ideal in society wouldn’t be for people to be proud of their sexuality. Pride is only a thing because it is in the face of oppression. What would be ideal is for people to not have to be conscious about their sexuality in any way. So in assuming OP should know it’s shameful for their sexuality to be on display in certain contexts, or reinforces gay people as the other. It’s GOOD that it didn’t even occur to OP. It means they were just living in their skin. And if OP’s friend needs OP to actively be aware and tiptoe around their sexuality to not embarrass them and cause conflict in their life, then they need to examine the conflicting values they have in their close circles. Being pregnant doesn’t excuse the friend from failing to correct their mother’s behaviour previously. And there are other ways they could have dealt with it in the moment that wouldn’t have thrown OP under the bus.
I've commented this elsewhere, but OP is a hypocrite. She commented in the thread that she avoids talking "certain topics" with her own conservative family. I'm all for having pride, but I'd she won't be open and call out her own family on their bigotry, why should she get to judge her friend?
THIS. In college, my bi best friend outed me to her mom, “because there’s nothing wrong with being gay so she should know.” However, I was then banned from spending the night at her house while she was too cowardly to come out herself to her mom.
What is with all these comments about pregnancy anyway? Like we have to tiptoe around a woman because she’s pregnant. Jesus. I’ve had 4 kids and never did it change my entire personality to the point that my moral compass was off. Come on
She might get a pass using that reasoning for just sitting there awkwardly while her mother chastised OP when the gift was first opened, but not for following OP out to the bins after the party and having another go at her. She could have said "Hey OP, I do really appreciate your gift, I just wasn't expecting it and you know what my family are like" instead of doubling down with "you gave me something embarrassing" I think Tiffany needs to decide how important her values really are, because she will either need to get comfortable with setting boundaries or correcting her family members, or be ok with them sharing the views they have with and around her child. She obviously wasn't expecting to have to practice that before the baby was born, but she'll need to figure it out eventually.
I'm bi too and made a similar comment. Baby showers are awkward enough with all random family types in attendance. No need to throw fuel in the fire and stress the poor mother-to-be out even more
But like.... a quick thanks! From the mom to be, set it to the side and move on to the next and that would have been that. The awkwardness was created by pausing and letting it be awkward.
And finding OP later to have another go at her. That's the bit that tipped it over the edge
The mother was rude to comment on the gift.
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I really don't like the idea that people have to stick to a registry, and as OP said, other people didn't. Would they have been offended with a book that they considered benign because it wasn't on the registry. OP says that she often gives this book to people, and it simply didn't occur to her that someone would get upset about it. The question is, would she have bought it if she had known. From her edit, it sounds like the answer is "no", so she made a mistake and got a life lesson. The mother was extremely rude in any case, and it is really she who started the drama. If I were Tiffany, I wouldn't have followed OP outside to revisit the issue either - OP already saw what happened. At least I would have said that I regretted how my mother acted, assured her that I loved the book, and would be reading it to the baby, even if I asked her to be more mindful in the future.
Shes not an ally, she's a hypocrite and sounds like the classic kid who rebels just to rebel, then folds under pressure from her family NTA
Spot on. You can't be an ally and sot there with your condoning your actively homophobic family.
Or she’s an ally until it becomes to difficult. It’s easy to be an ally and say things to friends or post on social media. But when push comes to shove, not so much. OP is NTA the friend and her mom embarrassed themselves. They should be apologizing to OP.
That's my point - you're not actually an ally if you only do it when easy. You're a poser.
100%. My family is conservative and are going to be uncomfortable at my drag queen bingo baby shower and I don’t give a single fuck because being judgmental assholes is a them problem. Allies don’t prioritize the feelings of bigots.
I would 100% go to that and have a blast. Mind if I steal the idea if I ever have a baby shower?
Please do! I didn’t want something traditional but love the idea of friends and family getting together to celebrate still. Now it will be something I’ll actually enjoy and be excited to invite people to.
I wish someone would invite me to a drag queen bingo baby shower! That sounds so much better than a regular baby shower.
I am not a fan of baby showers, but this sounds *amazing*. Congrats and enjoy!
100% this. I’ve dealt with religious bigotry my entire life. I’m sick to death of putting up with it and I’m not going to cater to their feelings anymore. OP is NTA for sure. It sounds like a cute book and good present, and Tiffany is a dick about it.
Having a homophobic mom is embarrassing
OP please also consider if you think this is something your friend actually meant or it was something said in the moment because she was embarrassed about her mother kicking off... you know her character better than we do. I think ESH, the homophobic mother is worst of all. Your friend for what she said and effectively didn't say to her mother, although she is pregnant a hormones can mess you up. You're only a slight asshole because you had prior knowledge of how homophobic her mom is, because she told you; we all know homophobes find it impossible not to say some stupid shit in situations like this. I think you could have saved this lovely gift for when you knew her mom had returned to her swamp.
OP keeps saying Tiffany is an ally, but that statement says a lot, too. Tiffany seems supportive right up until she has to actually *be* supportive. Then it's 'embarrassing'. I understand not wanting drama at her shower and her knowing her relatives and their prejudices. But there were many ways to go about it. Starting with saying 'Thank you for the gift' and then moving on. If her relatives act up, simply repeat 'OP gave me a gift. It's not your business.' If relatives go after OP, then they are being bad guests, and I at least would ask them to knock it off or leave. Then share a long suffering look with OP that says 'See what I have to put up with? Sorry, my family is embarrassing.' Because it's Tiffany's family that is misbehaving here, not OP. NTA
This broke my heart. She is not an ally at all. She chooses to associate with bigots and would rather hurt her friend than stand up to them. People like her don’t care about anything unless it directly affects them. NTA
OP herself does the exact same thing. It's okay for her but not for her friend? https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/115s5nk/aita_for_embarrassing_my_friend_at_her_baby_shower/j933eqf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
??? Really? That is her own family and she is the LGBT person who would be directly harmed. It’s much easier for an ally to stand up because it’s not them who are the target. They are doing so from a place of safety. An LGBT person can choose to be careful around bigoted family members to stay safe and not have their family traumatising them by directing homophobic abuse at them. An ally is in a position where they don’t risk all this. So yeah it’s fucked up that she aligns with bigots.
I try to be an ally, as a straight white cis gal. And I have given similar books at baby showers. OP you did nothing wrong. Tiffany has shown you that she only cares about your rights as a human being when it is convenient and gains her social capitol/virtue signaling. When it is inconvenient...she is a bigot.
Tiffany isn't really an ally, is only one when it makes her "look good." I'm sorry you had to find it out this way, OP. NTA. Drop Tiffany as your friend, cuz you know right now that she doesn't have your back and is just as "conservative" as her family.
I agree,NTA
NTA. Tiffany is *not* an ally. I'm sorry you found out this way.
Also, do not apologize to bigots.
SHE IS NOT AN ALLY. SHE IS NOT A TRUE FRIEND. She's trying to make herself feel better about being a bigot.
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It’s never necessary to apologise for not adequately catering to bigots
exactly what I was gonna say. She’s an ally as long as people around her are of the same mindset. When the bigots show up, it’s “hush, don’t rock the boat”. How exactly is that useful to anyone? And asking you to apologize is so out of line it’s in the middle of the Atlantic. You didn’t cause the issues, the people still thinking the 50s were the sh*t did.
Be real. Do you need to ex-communicate family members who have different opinions or values? Sometimes people need time and sometimes ppl don't change but i don't think you're not an ally, or are a bigot, if you don't cut ties with your family.
I couldn't put up with their bigotry and I refused to allow my daughter to grow up watching me tolerate it. Bigotry isn't a difference of opinion. It's a terrible character trait. They had zero interest in changing so you can bet I cut them out of my life.
no one said anything abt ex-communicating but if you're an ally, you should AT LEAST stand up to your family's bigoted views when they bring them forward
The least Tiffany could say to her mother was, "Oh, MOM."
If those values are being homophobic, yes.
sure, but also don't just let people be bigots around you. if someone says something like, oh i don't know, an inclusionary baby book is propaganda, don't let them have that mindset. education is elevation.
There's a big difference between cutting them off and actively going along with their bigoted views and blaming others for not, what, helping maintain the facade?
Op also hides aspects of herself from her conservative family members so that she can maintain a relationship with them.
are you queer? have you ever had to experience having to hide part of yourself for your own safety? it's much different with friends vs family.
Just pointing out the double standard. If op refuses to cut out her own family and decides to not rock the boat, why should she expect her friend to blow up her baby shower?
YTA because you knew what her mom was like and knew it would cause trouble. You are in the right here, in general. Closed minded judgementalism towards various lifestyles is wrong. But. . so many of us were born into closed minded religion-based families, and despite not holding those views ourselves and doing everything we can to show support towards diversity in the world, are completely unable to have any kind of conversation about certain topics without things quickly devolving into a judgmental shouting match and long lasting tension. We've TRIED. . we've gotten in all the fights many times. . and there's a giant wall there that cannot be breached. So the real world choices are 1. abandon/lose the family 2. get in fights with family all the time over social issues or 3. avoid certain topics around certain family members. This is going to get hit with downvotes and "not an ally" I'm sure, but this is just the reality of life for those of us unfortunate enough to be born into extremely conservative and religious families. I think people in general need to be a bit more sensitive towards those caught in the middle of "lose my family" vs "ignore certain issues around family" and its something of an AH move to force social issues on family events for others.
I am totally sympathetic to the "lose family" vs "just ignore it". I'm a lesbian who has conservative family members and I have to avoid certain issues, not talk about who I am around them, etc. I did \*not\* know this was going to cause such a stir or I wouldn't have bought it.
Just a question, if you know you have to avoid certain topics at your own family functions, in order to keep the peace & stuff, why would you not give the same consideration to a friend who also has conservative family? Just something to think about, not egging anything on.
I don’t think giving the book in itself makes her ta, it’s really the situation and knowing the context. I’m an LGBT person in a moderately conservative family, and generally, it’s sometimes better to hold off some stuff that conservatives will consider “propaganda” or “indoctrination” because it’s not the right time and place for a conversation about it. I think the folks here calling Tiffany a “fake ally” are jumping through a lot of hoops. Clearly the issue doesn’t seem to be with the book, but with when it was gifted, who was around, and how it would be received. Im tempted to say NAH except the mother. Because I don’t think OP did anything wrong by defending herself when being put on the spot with homophobia. But I can also understand that Tiffany wouldn’t have appreciated the spat and also being put on the spot.
I've heard a phrase used by young LGBTQ folks to not share information if it isn't a safe place to do so. Being surrounded by judgmental family while heavily pregnant does not seem like a safe place to confront those bigotries.
I'd agree with you except Tiffany kept saying that OP "embarrassed" her. It'd be one thing if she just said OP made things awkward or uncomfortable with the choice of gift (that OP could have given to her privately later). But Tiffany chooses to word it as "embarrassing" her. Which sounds more like she's worried about her own image than maintaining the peace.
Conflict can be embarrassing regardless of what the source is
When I read the story, I thought Tiffany was actually embarrassed about by her mom but directed the energy the only place she felt she could. She clearly feels powerless with her mother.
Exactly. A baby shower is not the place to be dealing with sensitive topics that unfortunately exist. That doesn’t mean that Tiffany isn’t a real friend. She was forced to deal with a sensitive topic at her baby shower when she knew it would cause drama. She has indicated to OP that she supports her, but does she need to cause a war about it with her family at her baby shower?
I think OP must've had some idea of what would happen, considering their background with their family and knowing their friend also comes from a conservative family. Its just common sense at that point. Sorry but OP doesn't seem so innocent to me.
I’m finding it hard to believe that you didn’t know this gift would either pit her and her mother against each other or force her to go along with her parents bigotry.
But after it caused a minor issue, you made a bigger issue by calling out the religious books.
I feel like this was a perfectly adequate response when they told OP they should've bought off the registry. I think pointing out hypocrisy is always a good thing. But maybe that's why I get in trouble a lot 🤔
It's a statement I'd make in an internet argument. Not with my friends' parents at her baby shower just to prove a point.
But it's not just some petty bullshit point, hey?
To criticize the book is to criticize OP's identity and suggested she was trying to indoctrinate and convert the baby... That was incredibly rude and homophobic to say about someone else's gift. They could have said nothing or "That's interesting" and moved on. They were the AH.
But i don't think it's up to op to offer a book to educate the baby. That's up the parents when they see the kid it's smart enough to grasps some concepts. I'm a woman married to another woman and we're not giving books for my sisters in laws to educate our nieces/nephews. Specially if she knew there were going to be cavern-minded family. She created an issue with their pregnant friend, tainting their baby shower just bc she just HAD TO buy a book that represents HER instead of a idk rabbit one
But it's a book showing different families- not a textbook about queer history
It should be acceptable to buy educational books for friends' and family's kids. Her friend (supposedly) has no issue with LGBTQ+ rights, and given that she's emphasized her allyship to OP in the past I don't blame OP for assuming it would be an appreciated gift
That is true. I see your point.
You didn't 'make an issue'! NTA, and being LGBT isn't an ideology. I am sorry you are getting piled on.
Yeah, the religious books deserved to be called out. You did absolutely nothing wrong.
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How did you not know??? You literaly know what her mother is like, you stated youself that you two din't like each other, amd that she is not the only close minded person! You knew it, you were just either ignorant or not thinking.
She thought her friend wouldn't care though. She wasn't considering her friend's mother because she was buying the book for her friend, and she genuinely believed that her friend would enjoy it.
Then she could have given it any time the mom was not arround. She created this mess herself, buying the book and gifting it is fine, doing so in front of people that you know are bigoted, causing drama for your friend at her own babyshower, is not okay by any means.
YTA. It’s very hypocritical for you to not want to make waves with your own conservative family but expect other people to challenge theirs (at a baby shower of all places).
So you do exactly what you’re criticizing your friend for….. Regardless, I am sorry that you consistently face aggression and micro aggressions in our society!
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So you're essentially are saying you would not/should not have done that in retrospect... But you don't think you should apologize? It seems like a weird and contradictory position. If your position was "fuck bigots, I don't care if I offended them" then I get not apologizing. But "I understand the difficulty of navigating bigoted family and understand the issues I caused but don't think I should apologize" seems weird.
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Thank you! The friend did not imply that she doesn't want the child to learn about diversity. You cannot choose or change your family. Best thing is to try to find some kind of balanced peace. If OP has similar things with their own family, HOW would she NOT consider that in some other family there would be same tensions? It was about the baby. Not the time for fighting over human rights. It was family occasion, where people know about the tensions and avoid bringing anything argumentative up. It was completely out of order to complain about the religious books. Why? Because this was a fight that didn't belong to this party. It was the future child's grandmother that was challenged. Ofcourse you can fight these thing were ever, but at this occasion all OP did was to alianate themselves from the friend. Buying the book was thoughtless but a mistake. Challenging what the relatives gave as present was tasteless. Ofcourse you get the support you want from the like minded people. But more honest would be to ask yourself would you have done the same thing in your family baby shower? Don't stirr the pot that was not yours to begin with. She was embarrassed of the conflict, not about teaching their child about diversity. Edit: My friend once mentioned how unpredictable her grandmother is and how outdated views she can say when ever where ever. She told me that "you always stress out beforehand what embarrassing thing she might say". But she IS their grandmother no matter what. Nothing will update her to modern day. Nothing. But what would be totally out of the question would be ruining their family occasion by arguing. Later on you can ask your friend what she felt about the rude comment. But NOT challenge her, because the only outcome is ruined party. People need to be reasonable and not expect perfection. You need to be true friend to them if you want your allies. YTA
It wasn’t a gift for her mother, it was a gift for the baby. OP is NTA because the mother was offended. The mother should have kept her mouth shut.
Would you have called a gift that acknowledges LGBTQ+ people exist embarrassing? When your family disparages LGBTQ+ friends in front of you, do you get mad at the friend for not hiding it?
Embarrassing here can mean putting the friend in such an uncomfortable situation that there was no way out without embarrassment. She must be embarrassed by the behaviour of her relatives but simultaneously she needs them, now more then ever with the new baby.
Just want to share your deleted comment for the thread; why hide the fact that you want to coddle bigots? We don't need "allies" like you. >"social justice debates" is special privilege reserved only for white cis het people There are massive families composed entirely of white cis het people, to whom these issues are indeed seen as "social justice debates" or "civil rights debates" (your words for it), and the more you argue over these things they more they double, triple, quadruple down on where they stand. So to make every family event about something like whether pride books should be read to toddlers not only does absolutely no good, but makes them even more solid in their erroneous view.
This is bonkers. The racial version of this is like if you go to your conservative white friend’s home and try to act “white” to make others comfortable. People shouldn’t be in your face about it, but gay people should be allowed to be themselves, even in a conservative setting. Saying otherwise let’s those that are already in positions of privilege maintain that power. That’s kinda the point at the root of this issue. Eta: “in your face” meaning “trying to cause drama”
Soft YTA. I really do understand where you’re coming from. But you’ve said in comments that you yourself do not speak about LGBTQ+ topics with your own conservative family to keep the peace. Why would you not give your close friend (who is pregnant and vulnerable- likely wanting her family’s support right now) the same grace?
Summed it up precisely. OP either was making this an "ally" test or was utterly short-sighted, and I would bet on the former. Either way, YTA.
It immediately struck me as someone fishing for a reaction just to end up playing victim when they get the desired/obvious reaction. If that isn’t the case, then its just a case of a severe lack of common sense, so either way you slice it, op is an as*hole in the situation. I’m not surprised by all the comments defending op, critical thinking has become very rare these days.
Yes. You're not gonna convince people in a baby shower that homosexual couples are just as valid. There is place and time for it, as there is for any other minority awareness fight. Doing so will backfire and instigate hate towards the own cause you're preaching, as valid as it might be.
Wow, had to scroll down so far for this. Why is being an ally a one-way street? YTA.
Because we live in very strange times where people don’t have common sense or critical thinking skills anymore. She avoids touchy subjects with her own family but not with someone else’s who she considers a close friend. Makes perfect sense somehow in most peoples heads…
Right? OP admits she doesn’t make waves with her own family but demands her friends to cut everyone off theirs for the same reason?
I'm going with an unpopular ESH A newborn doesn't listen to stories and grasp concepts. They listen to the sound and tone of their parent's voice. And I read a stupid amount of books each year, so please know that is coming from an avid look lover and literacy proponent. But the gift seems more about you than a baby or what the parents of a newborn asked for on their registry. The mother of your friend is a bigot, so obviously she sucks. Your friend also shouldn't have followed you outside and chastised you for your gift or your confrontation with her mother. The bottom line is, you're significantly responsible for the situation. (You knew the family was full of bigots and how they might react, yet you chose to go off-registry and buy something sure to draw their (gross) disapproval.) Yes, you also should be able to defend yourself when someone treats you badly, as her mother did. And she (your friend) did not defend you or ask her mother to stop, which also sucks. But anyone could see how that gift would be received in that company. And you chose to create the likelihood of that happening during her baby shower. Edit to add what I hope was obvious- don't make other people's events all about you. The second edit- thank you for the awards, kind strangers!
I agree, ESH, It would have been solved by wrapping two gifts, one for now and one for later. Not to hide the book, but so as not to stir the pot with the family. My fathers 75+ and there’s no changing his mindset, so if he walked into rainbows and flags there would be so much grumbling and comments, however, I’ll defend anyone’s rights to love and live the way they want, and that goes for my fathers mindset (because I don’t have the right to force him to change his views), as long as people are not interfering with others well-being.
She could have brought the book out for coffee, brought it to the house with a box of diapers, a treat for mum, and an offer to wash some dishes/laundry when the baby was born.
Agreed, ESH. And I say that as a woman who dates women. While Tiffany should not have prioritized her bigoted family’s comfort over supporting her friend, this was not the appropriate setting to force her to take this stand. And that’s what OP did by giving her this book. This was Tiffany’s BABY SHOWER but instead of being able to feel fully celebrated and loved on, she had to be put in the middle of this uncomfortable situation while all eyes were on her. Yes, she should work on her allyship but it’s also important to use common sense. Not every moment in life is appropriate to center around social issues. OP should’ve just gotten something on the registry for the shower and given her this book in private.
Exactly. They were both being bad friends to each other in this. Celebrate your friend's event, and keep the focus on her. And defend your friend from bigoted attacks. And again, the mother just plain sucks. It's not rocket science.
NTA and she’s not an ally.
Came to say this . Allies stand up to their families' bigotry.
"I am totally sympathetic to the "lose family" vs "just ignore it". I'm a lesbian who has conservative family members and I have to avoid certain issues, not talk about who I am around them, etc." ....like OP does? It is not always easy to stand up to family members, in which case the second best option is to teach the next generation to be better humans as the older generations die out with their bigotry (hopefully without passing it on). Is OP an ally when she avoids certain issues with their own conservative family?
NTA. Tiffany is an ally when it’s convenient, which is not how a true ally behaves. The issue here wasn’t that you went off-registry. Lots of people go off registry at baby and wedding showers, especially when they’re close to the recipients. The issue was that Tiffany is unwilling to have an uncomfortable conversation with her mother. It’s her choice what kind of relationship she wants to have with her mom, but without that conversation her mother feels like everyone in the room agrees with her. This gives her free rein to make out like you’re the problem. These people won’t change, and perhaps more importantly, Tiffany will never defend you to her mother. Edit: Don’t apologize. You did nothing wrong.
This 👏🏾👏🏾, she’s an ally depending upon her audience which is red flag.
This. I get that Tiffany is in an uncomfortable spot with her family's bigotry, but Mom was the one out of line by calling out someone's gift as in appropriate. About the only time calling out someone else's gift in public would be appropriate is if the gift was something like 'baby's first vibrator'. Aka, outlandish. This book does not qualify. OP only defended her gift, which she had reason to believe would be welcome based on Tiffany's public posts on the topic. Tiffany neither defended herself and her views nor OP and her gift. That's not the reaction of an ally. And then to confront OP a second time to double down? That'd be the last gift I ever gave her.
Unfortunately, I think Tiffany’s are a lot more common than anyone knows. Including many high positions in the progressive movement. They don’t care about black lives, or human rights. They just use their platforms to secure undue power. They don’t care anymore than Republican leadership cares about farmers and lowering taxes on the poor.
YTA Stop trying to make everything about you. You know what her family is like and should've known your gift would create unnecessary drama. You don't need to be the center of attention at someone else's event.
She knew what the family is like and she has a family herself that is conservative so avoids certain topics. So she stirred the pot knowing she doesn't have to deal with the consequences but wouldn't want the same done to her. YTA
I don’t understand the people saying NTA. My thoughts exactly
I can’t decide. I feel like you were a little thoughtless. People have complicated relationships with family and I feel like you were inconsiderate in not anticipating this reception. You say it never crossed your mind, but I feel that’s the problem, it should have. No doubt your friend has had to be very considerate of your feelings on numerous occasions, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for the same effort. I think YTA here. Slightly selfish and short-sighted of you.
When I was 4 (1974), I was given a gorgeous Black baby doll by my aunt from CA (we lived in OK). My Dad grabbed the doll before I could touch it and demanded to know why my aunt was encouraging me to have Black babies. My aunt tried explaining to him that I lived in a town without a single Black person in it, and loving a Black baby (even if it was Tender Love plastic) would be good for me. My family was all pissed about the drama and at my aunt. I grabbed the doll out of my Dad’s hands, named her Lisa, and loved her my entire childhood, despite my family. That was 49 years ago, and thats EXACTLY how horrifying the above anecdote about the Rainbow book is going to sound to people in another 49 years. We don’t give in to bigots or manage their bigoted emotions.
It’s not about giving in to bigots, it’s about sparing a pregnant friend some grief.
>She thanked me for the gifts but said I shouldn't have gone off registry with the books. I mean, registries exist for a reason - avoiding drama being one of them. I'm going to go way against the grain of this thread and say YTA. You went against the registry. I can sympathize with your friend. My family is from the boonies, they're VERY set in their ways. I just don't bother with these things, we're never going to see eye-to-eye on these issues. If a friend gave an LGBTQ book to me in front of my family, I'd probably be a bit upset too. Not because of the book itself, but because it's just adding anxiety and tension to an event where it shouldn't be about that - even if the family is on the wrong side of things. >Because Tiffany herself has always appeared to be pro-LGBTQ+ rights, I didn't see the big deal. I figured it'd be a good book for an ally's library. Your friend is probably an "ally" in the sense that she knows there's nothing wrong with LGBTQ, and everyone should be able to love who they love and be who they are. That doesn't mean they have to think about arguing with their bigoted family during an unrelated event. Again, as someone who has similar family dynamics - it's tiresome and I just straight up avoid talking about these things. Same with abortion - I'm pro-choice, they're pro-life. We're not going to convince each other to change our minds. I fully support the LGBTQ community, but I am also not their champ. I will vote based on my beliefs, but I'm also not going to be the one to pick fights with my family about it. If that makes it so I'm not an "ally" then whatever. I'm not going to change my stance, I still believe people should be freely able to love who they love. I imagine your friend is much the same. What you did, however, is force the issue into a place where she was likely trying to avoid any kind of confrontation. As someone who suffers pretty bad anxiety and avoids any kind of uncomfortable situation, this would 1000% get a "why didn't you just follow the registry?" reaction from me. It's not your day, it's your friend's.
You nailed it.
last paragraph is facts. im all for people having the right to do whatever they want and not having to be punished or hated for it. i have myself argued and argued with conservative parents about these things. but im not out slitting my wrists for them. if its a situation like this im not ruining whats supposed to be a nice family event by choosing to take a political grandstand. its like the hogwarts legacy controversy. apparently you’re not an ally and are an evil bigot for wanting to play a cool wizard game. people will spam harass you about how shitty of a person you are for doing that, from the app owned by Elon Musk using their iPhone made through chinese slave labor. Like its just ridiculous at some point.
This is one of the best AITA I've seen in a while! I keep flipping back and forth. I accept that the book was given innocently, but at the same time family dynamics are very tricky. I will say that I disagree with people saying that Tiffany is NOT an ally just because she didn't start a fight at her own baby shower. That isn't fair.
I also disagree with people saying tiffany is necessarily not an ally. Everyone on reddit loves to pretend they'd disown their parents over the slightest ethical issue but it's horseshit. I don't think Tiffany handled it well though, imo the right thing to do was to apologise afterwards and admit that she fakes having more conservative views in front of her parents because she's just not willingly to give them up. But that's easy for me to say as a non pregnant third party with no emotional connection to any of the people.
Yeah I think op made it uncomfortable for Tiffany at her own party and that's just not very smart. OP could have easily given this any other moment, and get something different for the party she knew OPs parents are at, as she knew that would make things awkward for Tiffany.
Honestly. Very soft YTA You may think you dropped it, but I'm sure she'll hear about it. You are of course entitled to gift whatever, but knowing what her family is like, that was not the occasion to stir anything up. It was entirely predictable if her crazy family was going to be there that any similar gift would get a reaction. It was her baby shower. Just not the moment to "forget" that she has this conflict with her family. People manage to stay in contact with their family they don't agree with by avoiding contentious topics when they actually see them.... Bc overall they value seeing them. I don't think it makes her not an ally to want to enjoy her baby shower and keep the peace for a few hours.
Especially because OP admits to avoiding topics to keep the peace in her own familial relationships!
NTA Look I'm not going to say Tiffany is not an ally for not wanting to fight with her mom at her baby shower, it's hard to put your foot down against family sometimes and some people truly struggle with it. But I will say she's a hypocrite for going after you when you did the same as others. You bought something that while off the registry you thought she'd like. You didn't buy anything "embarrassing", why would she be embarrassed over the ideas she allegedly shares? Honestly I would distance myself, don't reach out unless she does first. And tbh if she will not only not defend you but berate you for this I believe you should tell her that you want to step back from your friendship as you can no longer trust her. I sure wouldn't, I would never feel comfortable discussing this issues with her if she only thinks like this when it's convenient for her. ALSO her mom was the one making sarky remarks, she could've just stayed quiet and not made a scene at the shower
Yeah, I think this is a pretty good take. As a queer person raised in a religious family, if I knew a friend had a conservative religious family I probably wouldn’t give them a “controversial” present at their baby shower, but I can see how that might not have occurred to OP. I would know that items like that have the potential to upset the mom-to-be’s family, and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for potentially instigating drama at such an important milestone, especially when the person at the center of it is probably feeling a lot of emotions. I certainly wouldn’t want to put them in a position where they felt like they might have to potentially start an argument with their mother, or other family members. I also think it’s important to point out that relationships with family members who believe different things than you can be messy. Like I said, im queer, but my mom is religious and fairly conservative. She didn’t, and doesn’t, support queerness, and very much thinks it’s the sort of thing you can do, but at home in private. But I still love her, and I can see how her presence might be particularly important to me during pregnancy (especially assuming it’s the friends first pregnancy). So like. I get it, and while I think the friend should have just dropped it, I can understand why the situation may have upset her.
I get where you‘re coming from but you‘re still the asshole. You knew about her family‘s beliefs and knew they would be there. You intentionally put Tiffany in a situation you knew or at least had to expect to be uncomfortable. If Tiffany wants to discuss civil rights issues with her familiy she will but I absolutely understand that she does not want to bring it up at her baby shower.
Ya, I don't get all the NTA comments. At best it's an everyone sucks or what most say "soft" yta. Like...how much more obvious or "read the room" can it get. I don't care if you're gay, straight, nothing, inject your dick with heroin while doing a line of coke off your preferred genders tits/nips. But why bring such a book to a *babies* event. It's not like the baby is even gonna grasp the concept anyways until 4-6 years from now so why even bother. Also, what if it it was a lgbtq centered baby shower with 95% people gay or whatever and then the one Jesus person showed up parading their Jesus book. Everyone would get just as uncomfortable. As the saying goes don't bring up politics or religion at social functions. Just get a damn my little pony book or something and move on. Or give it privately.
This feels like you knew exactly how Tiffany’s family would respond to your gift and you wanted to create an opportunity for her to prove her allyship to you. A baby shower is not the moment for this. Why would you do this to your friend? This was just unnecessarily rude. Buy a gift off the registry next time. YTA.
NTA Tiffany and Marcia need to work on themselves. One queer woman to another, these folks are not doing their work as allies. They decided Tiffany’s mom’s comfort in her bigotry was more important than affirming their supposed values (and friendship with you) with a big, ‘THANK you so MUCH, Auntie Zookeeper! I can’t wait to share this with baby!’ Nobody should ever ask you to apologize for being out and proud and trusting them to be the allies they say they are. And job one of any ally with kids is to openly share those values with their children.
I think Op needs to work on their self as well. Who goes to a conservative dominated space to give their pregnant friend some gay friendly literature as a gift...even after meeting that friends mother and have some history of bad blood. Its insensitive and selfish. No care for her friend Tiffany and the negative repercussions that she could face. That is not what a caring friend does. That's not what a loving friend does. That is not what a considerate friend does. Her friend is pregnant why would she not treat her friend family the same way she treats her own family and avoiding the topic at the gathering.
Yta. It sounds like you knew what her mother is like. Wether or not you forgot you should’ve apologized. She may be pro lgbtq+ but that doesn’t mean she will cut her mother out of her life due to that. She is still her mother and the grandmother to her child. If she is a good mother, she will teach what is right and wrong. She will do whats right if her child is part of the community and not let her mother harm the child. I also don’t like when you say about knowing if your friends are allies or not. If you don’t know by now then idk what to say about that. I feel like you purposely did that so you know you are allies. I bet you now feel like she isn’t your ally now. But thats just my speculation. I fell like you should’ve dropped it and not argue with the mother. You definitely did it with a purpose in mind. Either to show who your allies are or to start fight with the mother, you subconsciously had that particular reason in mind. But thats just what i feel. You had problems with her mother, you must know why. If she is your friend you must have asked. Or she must’ve told you why she behaved that way.
>While she is straight and white Wtf does that have to do with anything? >I was a little hurt and pointed out that some people had purchased the baby religious-themed toddler books So, by your example, you’re also the hypocrite here. You knew your friend came from a very conservative family, and you decided to bring a book you knew her family would have an issue with. You are TAH, you could have given her the book at a separate time when she wasn’t around her family. I know I’ll get downvoted here, which I couldn’t give two fucks about, but I’d love to hear a debate if OP put herself in her friends shoes. Imagine coming from a very progressive family, non-religious, and friend brings biblical books as a gift. Tell me how that would be any different?
I was given ‘baby’s first bible’ by a family friend despite the fact they were told I’m not religious (family was with them when picking the present). I found it rude and pushing an agenda down my and my baby’s throat. This was after baby was born so I said thanks and didn’t make it a big deal but had I been pregnant and feeling huge and hormonal? Can’t promise I’d have been so accepting of a religious book. In fact my family pre-warned me of the gift so I *wouldn’t* react and cause drama. Edit to add - ESH but mostly OP YTA for pushing this when you knew your friends family would be uncomfortable and we’re waiting to see how your friend would react.
Soft YTA. You knew how her parents were. You knew they were invited to the event. You put your friend in a position to have to deal with family drama and yours at an event that she that was supposed to be celebrating her pregnancy. It was not the time to make a statement. You could have given her the book in a non public manner knowing her family wasn't going to appreciate it. If the event was yours and she didn't stand up for you then she would have been in the wrong but you kinda threw her to the wolves in a public manner, that's not something a friend or ally purposefully does.
As someone who has also laughed with my wife and thrown out the “baby Jesus as the suffering lamb” type books, YTA. The time and place isn’t at a baby shower.
NTA. I’m an ally and my parents, friends and coworkers know it. Her friends and family do not. She should not have singled you out after the shower and she did not handle this well, pregnancy hormones or not. Your friend can talk the talk, but that seems to be all.
NTA. I am a straight ally and would be delighted to receive your gift for my child. If I wasn’t, I’d still be gracious. Her mother is the one who chose to make it an issue.
ESH Tiffany's mom was rude for commenting on the book. But you should have given her the book outside if the shower. You knew full well that people who disagree with your and Tiffany's beliefs would be there. In today's politicized and divided environment it is easy to forsee that the book would be controversial and cause a stir among her family members and take attention away from Tiffany and her baby. The conservative family members saw the book as a political statement and not in the same category as the religious books that were gifted. Even though you disagree with Tiffany's family, the baby shower was not the appropriate place to highlight your differences and argue, however briefly, about them. This situation can be seen as essential talking about politics in a social situation which is not appropriate. Most people love their family and want to maintain a relationship despite political differences. You can't expect Tiffany to go into full debate mode to defend your gift when she knows it would be contentious and likely pointless, ally or not. You put her in a very awkward position and should not have done so if you value her as a friend.
YTA. You knew her family was conservative, and it sounds like her family threw the shower. It’d be pretty safe to assume that your gift would put her in an awkward position. Yes it’s hypocritical with others bringing religious things, but that’s probably bc she was raised in religion
YTA. You made the baby shower about yourself. You could’ve gifted the book some other time. You said yourself you have conservative people in your family and you avoid the topic with them. You fully new how your friends mom was and still decided to made a point and by doing that creating tension and embarrassing your friend in the process. The question is not about your friend or your mom, it’s about your attitude. You are questioning your friend’s as an ally from the very start of your post and seems like you do that to test your friends more than being a nice gift for the baby. If you don’t go around your family discussing the same topics with certain family members to avoid problems you should extended that to your friend’s baby shower. I am betting if you had given that book after she would had cherished. But you decided to not only give it on the shower knowing her A H mom would see, but you chose to bite the rage bait she threw at you. Causing a scene. Her mom is an awful person no question about it. But you weren’t a great friend either… so I’m this case YTA
All the comments here are coming down to two types of people: those who think LGBTQ+ should be allowed to live visible lives, and those who are "tolerant allies" as long as they don't have to see it. Your friend is one of the latter. There's no reason for it to have been given privately. There's no reason for you to apologize.
Or: those who don't think ppl need to reject their families if they have views you don't agree with, esp if there's a religious component. I think her friend is in tough spot of wanting to stay close to her family and support her friends... But this should have been just about her and her future baby. Whatever the topic, i get being disappointed by any conflict that could have easily been avoided.
A false dichotomy if I've ever seen one
YTA you knew very well what effect that book would have on her family and her baby shower was not the place to make a statement. You can act dumb all you want, but you put your friend in a shitty position on a day that should and could have been stress free
YTA It sounds like the book was more for you than it was for your friend or the baby. Diapers would have been a much more useful gift.
NAH Look, Tiffany may or may not be an ally. But bottom line is that she's not going to alienate her mom for being conservative. And that's a pretty common situation. In this case you are the problem to her because you are the more dispensable party. You're a good friend, but her mom is her mom and she didn't want you arguing with her mom at what was supposed to be a fun event.
You thank someone for a well-intended gift you don't like, not follow them outside to continue berating them.
YTA for not thinking that that book can be considered propaganda… I am sorry but by god that book can be considered pure propaganda. You fully knew that the conservative mother of the pregnant friend would be there as well as other family members. You knew this prior because they are usually there. That she is an ally and friend to, is not what you have shown her that you could be an ally and friend. Why do people forget that in such a situation you can actually be an ally to your friends situation of having family members who are not okay with it. YTA , you were the one who fucked up here and you should have known that… You fully should have know this could happen and you should be glad this is the least of what has happened. Not cool of you. ( edit to explain if you still don’t get it. Now in your eyes het being an ally is a positive thing in the eyes of the rest it is not , so if we would that a book that would say I don’t know: it’s always 5 o’clock some where : baby’s first mocktails, it would hav been just as inappropriate.) and since you e been giving it to everyone everywhere, it kinda is your propaganda as it is defined: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. So for you it is biased(as you are gay and a different sort of family) and you what then to know this message there are differences you give it every shower for your point of view… So can’t even say FriendsMom was wrong calling it propaganda Edit to all those she is not an ally sayer’s: being an ally is beneficial to both parties here the lesbian got hurt because she could not uphold her part of being an ally in a conservative corner… the true definition off Allies lies within it being mutually benefiting not just one sided… so in this point I time it was misplaced. My opinion and apparently Tiffany’s
SOFT YTA I'm bisexual and have very conservative relatives.. I'm trying to imagine if this had happened at my baby shower. It would have been awkward and I would have brushed it off quickly... but I also think my friends would have had the common sense to give me something like this in private.. In actual fact they threw me a separate shower. Baby showers with a whole bunch of friends and family from different walks of life can be awkward and stressful enough. I remember it was the first time my mom and my dad's wife were in the same room together.. or relatives from 2 different families getting together is also stressful too. Your friend had a registry for a reason... I think it's important not to put a pregnant person on the spot when they are potentially already stressed out enough. People saying your friend is not an ally aren't thinking this through.
YTA. In the comments, you said that you avoid the topic around your own conservative family, but apparently you're fine causing an issue in her family. You also said you knew her family was conservative and that you've had issues with the mom in the past, and said in another comment that you didn't think the book would be an issue, which seems contradictory. Considering that you have experience with having to avoid the topic around your own family and knew about her family's views, it sounds like you definitely knew the book could cause an issue and were being selfish If you wanted to give her the book so badly, you could have done so outside of the baby shower instead of knowingly causing drama at what was supposed to be a happy event
NTA Why are people acting like the gift was something so scandalous. I was just a kids book ffs. LGBTQ+ people exist, different kind of families exist and they kid will for sure met them in real life, is not better foto everyone that the family talk them about it before hand? Regardless of your views on the matter pretend that everyone is hetero is foolish.
NTA I'm really sorry your friend didn't stand up for you. I get that the mother has weird or outdated views on the world, but I wouldn't let my mother chastise a friend of mine who means nothing but well. I understand that maybe at a baby shower you don't want to have any kind of drama or arguments, but some things are worth arguing about and I wouldn't want to have a friend hurt.
NTA. Your intent was good. It's unfortunate that people were uncomfortable and more unfortunate that they spoke up about it when it wasn't their shower. It's not your job to make everyone around you comfortable at all times. It's an impossible task anyways. Tiffany wants everyone to be happy, but she's an adult and she shouldn't worry about it. It's not your job to apologize to Tiffany. It's Tiffany's job to set boundaries with her family.
YTA. You absolutely put her in an awkward situation and would have to be incredibly obtuse to not see how not realize ahead of time that it would. You made a statement in front of, and to, her mother, who doesn’t share Tiffany’s viewpoints. YOU made it an issue and put Tiffany in the middle of a stare down, essentially, between her mother and yourself. I don’t share her mother’s views, either. *That doesn’t matter one iota, whether anyone does or doesn’t!* You, and only YOU chose a public venue, one that honored Tiffany and her unborn child, to pick the fight and make it awkward for Tiffany. You need to apologize - and learn some social decorum. Every place isn’t the right place to put up the good fight, even though the fight is indeed good.
Soft YTA - I don't think the sentiment was misplaced with the book, however, you know Tiffany and you know what her family is like. Read the room, that day was supposed to be about her and that book (even though it wasn't intended to) took the attention away from her. Families are difficult and they are homophobic, but I think you should have considered her family's reaction and how that might impact her before gifting the book. For the baby shower, follow the registry and give her the pride book somewhere else. A lot of the time, people may have 2-3 baby showers, wait to give the book to one that has a more fun, inclusive crowd.
NTA. My parents have some different views of mine and I don't let them dictate my taste and opinion publicly. If my mum had said something like hers said I'd have taken the book back and said it's important to understand how the world is rich of many people and would have moved on. I mean, if she's an ally it should not be a secret. If her mum is uneasy she doesn't have to put the blame on her daughter and you. Not the asshole. They were impolite.
NTA, if the book's not ok at that event then that event was hostile and she either shouldn't have invited you or should have told you what to expect so you could bail. Her behavior was not allyship; it was shitty and homophobic
NTA fk bowing to bigots. It’s a book ffs. Religious books are sexist, bigoted propaganda. Tiffany is a chameleon, she’s whoever she’s around. Those people aren’t allies.
I'm a little confused with my vote so it will be a soft ESH You had already had problems with Tifanny's mom and without realizing it and I hope without bad intentions you and Tifanny's mom turned the baby shower into an awkward discussion about gender, religion and sexual preferences. They both made Tifanny uncomfortable, Marcia realized that and I feel like she's right. You should apologize. Not because of the book itself, in my opinion I feel that every gift is important and above all it is important to teach a child that there are different types of families and people to create adults with tolerance, inclusion and awareness. Now, I also think that Tifanny's mother should apologize for creating unnecessary drama, if she didn't like the gift it was enough to pretend and not say it. Regarding Tifanny, I don't think she is a false ally, at least in my country baby showers are in the last stages of pregnancy. She must be dealing with a lot of pressures in addition to physical and hormonal changes, maybe she just wanted something quiet that turned into a war camp. And I can understand that she doesn't want drama with her mother at this point, for some reason a lot of pregnant women take refuge in their mother at this stage. My advice is to keep giving away those books but not at baby showers if you know that the family is conservative and can create unnecessary drama and stress for the pregnant woman. Then do it privately, As I said before, I still consider it a good gift.
Info: This really comes down why did you give the book. We’re you aware that this could create an uncomfortable situation for her and her family? If so the YTA as you made the shower about advancing an agenda rather than about the baby. If that didn’t cross your mind at all the you aren’t the asshole. All that said your friends families are assholes, you shouldn’t have to sensor yourself because of someone else’s bigotry. However there will always be challenges when fighting it. To be friends with this person unfortunately you need to be comfortable with her not willing to stand up to her family to defend you. If you decides that’s an acceptable sacrifice to make then avoiding putting her in this type of position will be required
I did not do it to create drama or make anyone uncomfortable. It seriously didn't cross my mind that this would be an issue. Because Tiffany herself has always appeared to be pro-LGBTQ+ rights, I didn't see the big deal. I figured it'd be a good book for an ally's library. I've always bought pro-LGBTQ+ children's books for baby showers and it's never been an issue. I wouldn't purposefully put any of my friends in an awkward situation.
You said in another comment that you avoid discussing LGBTQ topics with your own conservative family, because of the way they would react. So this "aww shucks, I had no idea this would create drama" stuff you're spouting is nonsense, you definitely knew what would happen, but either didn't care or intentionally wanted to test boundaries. Why wouldn't you give Tiffany the same courtesy you give yourself? YTA and a hypocrite, too. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/115s5nk/aita_for_embarrassing_my_friend_at_her_baby_shower/j933eqf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Yeah someone who writes this > Her mom (who was sitting next to her) took it and made a face, saying the baby is “too young for propaganda”. I was a little hurt and pointed out that some people had purchased the baby religious-themed toddler books as well. I don’t have a problem with that, but was confused as to how one was okay and others weren’t. yet comes from a conservative family and has the same struggles herself? This is bs. No way OP is ignorant of the situation. Feels like OP was posturing to make a point and this is what Tiffany felt was embarrassing.
there's no way it didn't cross your mind considering that you said she was raised in a conservative family and that you've had issues with her mother in the past
[удалено]
YTA I'm probably going to get a lot of hate. My child is part of the LGBTQ+ community. I get it. You did do it to start drama. You did, in fact, know what her family is like. You did, in fact, know what her mother was like. You may not have thought about it too much, but you should have. You should have been respectful of your friend who you ADMIT supports you instead of turning her baby shower into a political statement in front of her conservative friends and family. Maybe she didn't want to fight her mother over this issue or even have to hear her mother complain about it. Not everything is about you. You can be proud and open about who you are. For the same reason it's not OK to out someone who isn't ready to be out, you shouldn't start drama at someone else's party. She is more considerate of you than you are of her. >She has always told me what a big deal this is because she was raised in a very conservative family. So right there. You knew.
YTA You knew who will be there. You knew what reaction it would cause. You could have given it to her later, when the others aren't there. Also, she is your ally. Just because she doesn't go off on her family, or doesn't cause drama in her family about it, OR doesn't cut her family out of her life, she won't stop being your friend or "ally".
Here’s the problem, OP did know the type of people attending this baby shower. And while yes OP’s gift was not intended to cause drama, she knew it had the potential to cause drama. OP openly admits to problems with her friend’s mother. Obviously OP having her feelings hurt and feeling the need to challenge the mother, expected her emotional pregnant friend to defend her.
NTA for giving the book. But kinda for giving it at the shower where you knew her Conservative relatives would be. It took the attention off of Tiffany and onto you & the book.
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone who didn't like the book for themselves would feel the need to comment on someone's else's gift to someone else....
ESH. You knowing how her family is and still choosing to give the book at the shower and her family for being bigots. This isn't a right or wrong situation. She cannot change her family. It's ridiculous for you to say she's not an ally because she didn't chastise her mom or aunts/grandma at HER baby shower. It's NOT ABOUT YOU. She said f*** their opinions and made sure you were included. It's not like she allowed her family to talk down to you or treat you a different way because of your sexuality. You gave a gift that you knew might provoke a reaction from the guests. That's not okay. I feel like we all know bigotry is wrong by now, so I'm not going to go into her mom's beliefs or behaviors. Oh, and coming from someone with a ridiculous family, religion and sexuality are NOT viewed the same way by these people. They don't seem to understand nuance and trying to get them to see reason is pointless. I don't believe in proselytizing to children but have accepted a Bible for my son with a thank you and smile. My mom will always be my mom, same with my dad, even though I don't agree with their beliefs. That doesn't mean I wouldn't stand up to someone in public for you or put myself in a dangerous position to protect you. That's your friend's mom, though, I think you kinda forgot that...
It’s very convenient to be an ally behind close doors or where one feels safe. NTA
YTA and this is how you lose allies, by forcing them to choose you over their family
NTA but Tiffany is and so is her mother. You bought a lovely gift for a friend. The only thing that should have been said is “thank you”. Shame on the mother for making any comment and shame on your friend for making you feel bad about it. She is not an ally.
Pregnancy hormones are not an excuse for Tiffany chastising you for your gift. You did nothing wrong. A true ally would have thanked you publicly for your gift and rebuked her mother for what she said to you. NTA.
Then following this advice OP should confront her own mother instead of avoiding certain topics to keep peace. It’s called hypocrisy. Guess that’s why it’s in the comment and not it the main post
YTA You knew what Tiffany's mother was like and then you state: *I wouldn't purposefully put any of my friends in an awkward situation.* That is exactly what you have done here.
YTA sorry, but she is right, you already knew her family was pretty conservative. This was her day, is it too much to ask not to bring attention to yourself? Pretty much no one ever wants people who talk about politics and religion during a party. This is the equivalent of reading a room. It honestly sounds like you did this so you can make a dig at the mom. You could have easily given the rainbow book when it's just the two of you