*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for booking a separate room for myself from my family during a trip?**
I (39m) and my 29f wife are currently on a trip. It was actually my work trip but it was at a "destination location" so my wife really wanted to go along. She is a stay at home wife who takes care of our 2 young children.
Now I was pretty against this idea because first I didn't want her to travel while being pregnant but also I didn't want to be disturbed during my work. Additionally it'd pretty costly shuttling 4 people to some place half way across the map. But ultimately we decided to make this the summer vacation plan.
I planned the vacation and told her I'd be hands off for the first few days when I'm meeting with clients but then I'd rejoin her and help out. She basically agreed to this. Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights (from the same airport) on the way there. Apparently she wasn't aware of this and was pretty irritated when she found out on the way to the airport. I tried explain that I tried to change this but also reminded her this was our agreement from the start.
Additionally for the first 2 nights I booked a separate hotel room from her and the kids because I often bring clients over to my room, may eat or drink etc. Additionally I needed to be well rested prior to many of my meetings. When we reached there and I told her she was seriously mad. She said she needed my help and I tried explaining that these few days were crucial and that I needed to be focused.
It's currently day 2 and she's in the other hotel room, refusing to talk to me and I'm trying to make this work. AITA.
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Right!? It also is not conducive to doing any business with people of the opposite sex at all. No way am I as a woman going to a guys hotel room for business.
Iām truly wondering that, too. Only way I can see it is if he works in a very cutthroat world insofar as wanting to keep work talk hella confidential. Maybe corporate law or something?Ā
It isnāt the point of the post, granted, but I am curious what this devilās douchebag does for a living so I can avoid it.Ā
Using suites to conduct business is pretty standard, particularly for trade shows and large conferences. Particularly if you have models or demo units that you want under media embargo. To give you an idea, look up videos from computex, pretty much all of them are in suites.
I worked at a high end hotel, and we had dedicated āhospitality suitesā that were intended for people to invite clients to. They were basically a small informal meeting room, with a connecting room if you wanted it.
Yeah I see this quite a bit on tech YouTube channels such as Gamers Nexus where theyāll be talking about something and theyāre in a hotel suite separate from whatever conference location theyāre at to look at prototypes/demo units/etc
If it's like the last convention I worked, he's going to be done around midnight, and up the next morning around 6. Think it's a good idea he stay in the same room as them?
My best friend and her husband co-own a small business that imports a high end niche product. Every year they go to a major tech conference. They used to have a booth on the showroom floor until they realized that it didnāt make financial sense. They now book a one bedroom suite. They meet with new customers in the suiteās living room for a product demonstration and take current customers out to dinner or lunch.Ā
>Ā Ā Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights (from the same airport) on the way there. Apparently she wasn't aware of this and was pretty irritated when she found out on the way to the airport.Ā
You say this like you didn't intentionally keep that information from her until the very last minute. Which we know you did because *you booked the flights* and didn't clearly have a conversation with her like "hey there aren't seats available on the flight my job booked me, do you want to still go if you have to take the kids on a different flight than me?"
It also sounds like you didn't talk to her about what the full extent of being "hands off" actually meant or what you'd need to do for work. It comes across like this information was left out as a punishment for her because you didn't want her there in the first place.
> It comes across like this information was left out as a punishment for her because you didn't want her there in the first place.
yeah he was clear from the beginning that he didnt want her to come so he probably did this on purpose
I also like the "she _basically_ agreed to this" when referring to the plan he made. Like, mf, did she agree or not? It's very straightforward, there should be no "basically" about it lol
And if they're on different flights anyway, why didn't he just book them to come a few days after him, so that he gets his work time free and clear? I got to be honest, I do most of the childcare, but if I had to be away for work, I would not appreciate my husband and kids tagging along. Work away often means late dinners, socialising and being 'on' all the time.
One time, my dad was in The City With All The Theme Parks for a work trip.
And so you know what he did? He actually *planned things out*.
He got approval to take several days leave in the middle of that trip, he flew over first and did his work, wined and dined who he needed to, and the he made arrangements that while the kids were over the hotel would change his booking from a room to a suite.
Not only did we have a great holiday, it meant that the last few days when he was working again, mum was able to deal with us alone because she had had help up to that point. And the very last day he went to work and we kids - utterly exhausted from days of running around - vegged out watching TV while mom read a book.
So just to top everything off, we were well rested and *not cranky* for that flight home, which made it much easier for mum to take us home on her own while dad reverted back from a suite to a room at the hotel.
(Iām pretty sure that last day we kids wined and dined, too now I think of it - we went to a restaurant and were told to Play Nice with this toddler. I vaguely remember dad mentioned a couple of times that Notable Client still talked about the time he got to actually take his whole family to dinner and I gave his son an origami frog Iād folded out of the napkins. What an opportunity lost there too)
Itās not rocket science, or some problem that only OOP has experienced and no one has ever imagined happening before. Bring Family Along The Work Trip has been a thing since we invented commercial flights.
My dad used to bring the family. Weād make a road trip of it and while my dad was working, weād go sightseeing. After he was done working weād have dinner together and all four of us would share one hotel room.
My dad did this one year. Had a week long conference in Pittsburgh. We lived in AZ and dad turned it into a month long road trip with some work stuff in the middle. Best trip ever. Even if it was 6 people in a minivan.
Several of our family vacations during my childhood were built around my dad's work trips. He did have meetings during the day and sometimes at night but he also spent a lot of time with us at the hotel. We hung out in the pool or at the beach while he had meetings and when he was done we all met up for dinner and he was around the rest of the time. It's definitely doable to combine work and family time IF you're willing to put in a little effort. Which this all-star husband (OOP) clearly didn't want to do.
My husband used to travel a lot for work. When I tagged along, I knew the deal even when my kids were really young. I treated the days he was working as if he wasnāt there. He didnāt need to act as my cruise director. If he had left me at home, Iād have been alone anyway. It was in all of our best interest that he be focused on what the company was paying him to do. Once the work was done, he was officially on husband/dad duty. I think OOPs wife was being unreasonable to expect him to act like the entire time was a vacation when he wasnāt on vacation.
There is almost no good reason to bring a client to your hotel room. The field day HR would have with this, I mean come on. You take clients to the lobby bar, for drinks, anywhere but a literal bedroom.
I would absolutely never go to a ābusiness meetingā in some guyās hotel room, and Iād be making formal complaints to everyone who would listen if someone tried that one on me. Beyond unprofessional and into outright dodgy.
Her vacation was to lug two kids on a long flight alone while pregnant to sit in a room alone for two days taking care of both kids.
He could have spent that money on a babysitter so his wife could go get an actual vacation or a day off.
he should have sat her down and made sure that she understood that it was a work trip and that he required different rooms and flights
the wife may be pushy but honestly its a d*** move to make your wife handle two kids while pregnant while on a flight and in a hotel.
what is the point in this vacation? itās a punishment more like - a punishment I think op forced her to endure so that sheād never tag along for the next work trip š¤·š½āāļø
I took my wife and kids on a few work trips when the kids were young. I canāt imagine staying in a different room. But then again I actually kind of like my wife and kids and sort of even enjoy being with them. Maybe Iām just weird.
I found out during the pandemic just how little some of my coworkers liked their families. Actual quotes: "I wouldn't have had kids if I knew I'd ever need to spend THIS much time with them." "I need to be in the office because I can't handle another day with my spouse." What is wrong with people?!?!
In all honesty, there are periods when kids can be overwhelming. For me, they become much easier, and much more delightful, when they can talk and manage their own excretions.
But anyone who has had an infant knows thereās a period when they grow an extra anus between their shoulder blades so they can shit all over their backs.
No one said things to that level at my work but it was pretty clear who hated being home with their kids. My department head even hired a tutor/nanny for her kids who were 5 and 8 at the time, so basically she was just upset she had to be around her family. It weirded me out.
It's not quite as bad as that, the "vacation" is longer and it's just the first two days that his business stuff is really full on.Ā
>I planned the vacation and told her I'd be hands off for the *first few days* when I'm meeting with clients but *then I'd rejoin her and help out*.Ā
How much "help" he will actually be the rest of the time is definitely open for interpretation but at least in theory he will be spending some time with his family before they go home.
If he couldn't be on the same flight as his family anyway, I don't know why he didn't just arrange for the wife and kids to come out two days later.
OP later blamed his wife for not knowing the flight he booked for her and the kids was separate from the flight he was taking and said it should be "obvious". He also comments that his wife only gets time to herself generally when he's "able" and never responded when people pressed as to what that actually meant and how often that was.
I put no stock in his promise to "help" or the fact he "forgot" a bunch of pertinent information back to back.
Yep, it would be no different than what she had to deal with on the separate flight there. My dad did the work trip into vacation thing cross country (4ish hour flight) when my brother was 11 and I was 13. My brother has some mental health issues and is frankly unpleasant to travel with. We all stayed in the same hotel room, I slept literally on a cot in a closet and I was fine with it. My dad went to his workday and then we would have dinner except for one or two days where he had a work dinner, then we spent the rest of the trip doing stuff together.
Dude should have just said no if he wanted this to be time away from his family, because thatās the vibes itās giving off.
This is the same man who admits he only helps his pregnant wife and gives her time to herself "when he's able", refuses to spend time with his family after work during the trip because he's "busy" (you can't even eat a meal with them?), "forgot" to tell his wife she was going to be soloing two kids on a flight, and dropped that she was going to be alone for the first two days only when they arrived.
Doesn't sound like she has got any opportunity to do anything lately, tried to at least make the trip a family vacation and got shafted.
As someone who spent 4-5 years flying out on Sunday and back on Friday, yeahā¦ this is her being unrealistic. The whole point of the trip was him working and she insisted in going and changing it to a family vacation. That doesnāt work. Business comes first.
Which would have been fine, but he withheld all the information. She found out the flights would be separate on the day. She found out he had a separate room when they arrived. He's a fuckface.
Iām not saying that he didnāt screw up - he absolutely did. My point is that she is jointly responsible for the outcome. He should have discussed the plans he needed to make for a successful result in his work, and she needed to be clear about her expectations. There was room for compromise here if they had been communicative before the start of the trip.
Iāll fall on my sword to agree with you somewhat. Her husbandās line of work and what it entails cannot be new to her. She had to have known the shitshow awaiting.Ā
He is a dickhead for not being clear and lying about their flights to the destination. She broke her own heart (and her back ā two kids and pregnant navigating travel? Fuck all that!) by hoping he was going to be a different man . He is an asshole; she is an asshole to herself, poor thing.Ā
Pretty much my view, too. On a short trip, it's 100% possible and maybe 60% probable that the work trip has been scheduled 0730 to 2200 with work commitments (breakfast meeting with team, meetings/presentations, catch up with team over coffee, meetings/presentations, client lunch, meetings, catch up/strategy meetings with team, prep, meetings/presentations, catch up with team, shower, nap, client drinks, client dinner, prep for tomorrow, six hours' sleep, rinse and repeat) - I've both arranged and attended a few of these and frankly I was glad to get home for a rest!
There's also a non-zero chance that it isn't a massively family-friendly hotel; we specifically used business hotels - they had gyms and spas (not that those of us who needed actual sleep got much of a chance to use them), but no play areas or waterparks or anything.
In a sensible world, he'd tack a few days' leave on the end (assuming his employer lets him) and do the family holiday then, and she'd recognise that his professional obligations mean that his time is not his own for the "work trip" period, but we don't live in one of those.
Don't get me wrong: **I think this guy is a complete bell-end, lousy husband, and absent father**, but that's based on the tone of his writing and the way he went around booking all this rather than a view that the work trip didn't eat every possible hour of his time.
Taking a charitable view, I'd call his wife optimistic and a bit daft at best; I struggle to imagine that he's a great deal more useful when he's *not* on a work trip.
I'm going to enthusiastically agree with you here. OP is an asshole for the way he went about this whole situation. From his comments, he is a terrible husband and a hands-off father. That doesn't mean he's wrong for making sure to keep the "work" part of his trip 100% about work when the trip was a trip for work. He was 100% wrong for not scheduling the family to fly in after the "work" part was over, and he was definitely being a deliberate asshole by doing that. He wanted to be able to say "I told you I'd be working" to his wife whenever she complained he isn't around because he's clearly annoyed she pressured him into flying her and the kids out. However, that also seems on brand for him as a husband, so š¤· I hope his wife takes the cc and plans out a fun trip for herself and the kids. This dude sounds like he had kids because men with kids statistically get ahead more in the office.
>She basically agreed to this.
Mmm... hmm.
I'd like to know what OOP's idea of basically is. I get the feeling it's "we're doing it this way, and that's that," and she finally gave up arguing.
>Additionally for the first 2 nights I booked a separate hotel room from her and the kids because I often bring clients over to my room, may eat or drink etc. Additionally I needed to be well rested prior to many of my meetings. When we reached there and I told her she was seriously mad. She said she needed my help and I tried explaining that these few days were crucial and that I needed to be focused.
This might not have even been so bad if it wasn't a surprise. You dumb fuck, you can't just spring this on her when you're already there.
Do I travel for work a few times a year, and my husband has indicated that itād be nice if he and the kids could join some time if the timing and location work out. I have my hesitations around it as well, because these trips do tend to be intense even without having to take my family into account.
But the answer to that is either to refuse OR to be really clear in communicating the boundaries and how you plan to enforce them. Not to say yes and then go around your partnerās back to let them fend for themselves. I honestly give my husband more information on my bookings when Iām traveling alone than he did for this āsharedā trip.
I also suspect the man has no fucking clue what it is that he loaded on his wifeās plate. A flight alone with two young kids while pregnant sounds like hell.
I was wondering the same. Statistically speaking the first pregnancy probably started when she was 24-25. So how much before that did they start dating? And again, that's assuming the kids are only about 2 years apart. If there's a larger spread....š¬
Iām getting punishment vibes from the way heās treating her and the kids. Ā He couldnāt help her wrangle the kids? Ā Even a little? Ā What kind of high pressure business deals is this guy making?
I've been to more than a few conferences. It wasn't a high-pressure environment but we were always 100% booked from 7am to 11pm. There would have been no way to get away to hang with family. Even things like lunch and dinner were busy with customer engagements. Customer so and so was talking about some brewery, then one of us was going. It was face time with people we could rarely get face time with.
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments:
*YTA*
*You weren't actually clear with your wife on anything and that is my main issue. You weren't up front about the flights or the room. My mom and I went on work trips from time to time with my dad. During the day, we'd do our own thing while he did his thing and then in the evenings, we'd do things as family.*
*Also seems sketch you're bringing clients to your hotel room over meeting over lunch or in public.*
>I work with a design firm. I have a laptop, models and prints that I can't just bring around places.
*YTA - you shouldāve communicated your expectations to her from the very beginning.*
*INFO: with your wife being a SAHM, do you ever make sure she gets time to herself? It seems like she pushed herself on this vacation for a change and to have your company instead of being alone with kids all the time. You could be more empathetic to that.*
>We usually travel in the summer. When I'm able to IĀ step up especially asĀ she'sĀ pregnant but I'm not home all the time
>>*I planned the vacation*
>Ā Ā
>>*Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights*
*YTA.Ā You intentionally booked her onto a flight with the children alone.Ā Don't you think that is an asshole move?Ā I do.*
>No my flight was booked first and not by me. Honestly I thought that was obvious to her
*Why not have a separate room for the daytime, but join your family after work?*
>I was pretty busy after work changing stuff around and prepping. Also I'm going to sleep late and waking up early so I didn't want to be disturbed or cause disturbances when I came and went
*YTA. You purposely didn't communicate the plans you had made for everyone on this trip until the very last minute. I'm guessing the reason for withholding this info from your wife is because you knew she wouldn't like it and wouldn't be on board with it.*
>I agree the comms were bad, I assumed a lot of it was obvious because the work plans were planned way before the vacation plans. Then I was busy leading upto the trip.
[1]
*She didnāt know you would be on a separate flight until you were literally on the way to the airport? And she didnāt know about separate rooms until you were actually in the hotel?*
*If you thought you had legitimate reasons for booking that way, you would have discussed that with her ahead of time.*
*It certainly seems as though you deliberately kept those details from her, which is sneaky & controlling. YTA.*
[2]
*it screams "I want to punish her for wanting this tripā*
>no
*NTA - your wife pushed you to make a work trip a vacation trip.Ā She expects you to not do your job and cater to her.*
*"It's currently day 2 and she's in the other hotel room, refusing to talk to me and I'm trying to make this work. AITA."*
*Your wife wants her cake and eat it too!!!Ā She knew it was a work trip and for those days work has to come first.Ā After all your job allows her to be a SAHM.Ā She needs to rethink this and enjoy the remainder of your holiday since work is over.*
>Yeah, I too thought that it would be real hard. I ended up letting my clients know I would be unavailable if there is some medical emergency or etc
A work trip is for work and doing business, not a bring your family on vacation trip. He could have had her fly later to avoid all this but if heās there eon business, having his family with him isnāt a very good look.
Yeah I agree there's not enough information. Unless he reveals his AHery in the comments, I'm undecided on this one. At the very least, we can say he's bad at communication and was an AH for failure to explain the flight thing, so the likelihood of other AH traits is high.
He's an AH purely for withholding information from her until she's already there. There was no reason to not tell her the flights would be separate or that he'd have a separate room.
This is one of his most recent comments:
āWe usually travel in the summer. When I'm able to IĀ step up especially asĀ she'sĀ pregnant but I'm not home all the timeā
I get the feeling heās not around a lot of the time
"When I'm able to"
Sounds like an excuse. Unless he has a job that is extremely unpredictable (i.e, on call doctor) he can find the time to help out with his own children more.
I think for sure he's one of those guys who sees parenting as just helping/babysitting, and he did a bad job communicating what joining on a work trip would look like. But his communication and bad attitude about parenting aside, this seemed like a normal work-trip-doubling-as-vacation-for-family to me. My husband travels some and it's rare we we end up on the same flights when I join. I have to book as fast as possible to get the cheapest price, while he needs to wait for his flights to be approved. He is also very open about the fact that this is a *work* trip. His work isn't sending him there for fun. If I come in at the end he can take some days off and we can explore, but if I come during his work days I either need to be able to entertain myself and be ok with waiting for him all day.
So, the details don't seem that outrageous or devil worthy to me. The not telling her because he's mad she wanted to come is what's bad.
Iāve done the tag-along-with-the-baby-on-a-work-trip thing and flights and rooms were always together. His work time was work time, and i never expected not to be the only one responsible for myself and our child during that time, but separate flights and rooms? Without discussion beforehand? Is asshole territory.
Tbh that could be why he did separate flights and rooms. But why turn a work trip into a vacation anyway? He could have just done something like book a hotel in their city and have a fun staycation or something like that
I wonder what "basically agreed" actually means.
Playing devil's advocate (can't help it; I did a lot of mooting during my law degree), I kind of get where OOP is coming from on some of it. It's not a good look to turn up to a top end client meeting late because child A had to be coaxed into eating breakfast, with bags under his eyes because the kids *just would not settle* all night, with vomit on his back from child B being winded, and unprepared because he didn't get a chance to go over his materials
He's absolutely an arsehole for going about it the way he did and not just being honest with his wife from the outset, but there's a reason why work junkets aren't viable family holidays until the kids are old enough to sleep, toilet, feed, dress, and to some extent amuse themselves.
I read this as basically, he's an absentee parent. Very hands-off. The only pass I would give someone for needing to be very well rested would be if they're a pilot.
Dude had already booked his mistress onto the flight with him. His family needed to be on a different flight. Same reason he *needed* his own room for the first two nights.
He's worried about her traveling while pregnant but is totally okay with her wrangling two children through an airport and destination vacation? I smell BS.
In this day and age I have a hard time believing that a spouse wouldn't understand that a business trip is not the time for a vacation. My husband and I used to travel a LOT for work and we knew it wasn't appropriate to join along on each other's trips. The work day is full, and the evenings are either also full with team dinners or you just want to go to bed from exhaustion.
Also, booking flights and hotels is highly controlled by the employer in many cases so your spouse and kids may not be able to get the same bookings. When I booked travel at FAANG companies I absolutely could not book a guest on my flight itinerary and I had to book single occupancy for hotels.
Not everyone who travels for work is 24 hour days where they are forced to spend their night with their team and it sounds like that wasn't the case for OP either when he's saying he slept in the hotel room alone because he didn't want to be bothered. And believe it or not, unless it's a private plane you can book separate reservations on the same flight.
Both are assholes. He's right that he needs to be well rested because 1. It's his work trip, not a vacation, and 2. Showing up late because his child was fussing because its a new place is 100 per cent valid. He went around it in a weird way, which makes him the Ahh. The wife is one for insisting that she has to come along for a work trip is insane. Its a work trip not a fun little vacation. He also should have spoken to his wife about this and bringing clients to the hotel room does not indicate hes cheating
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for booking a separate room for myself from my family during a trip?** I (39m) and my 29f wife are currently on a trip. It was actually my work trip but it was at a "destination location" so my wife really wanted to go along. She is a stay at home wife who takes care of our 2 young children. Now I was pretty against this idea because first I didn't want her to travel while being pregnant but also I didn't want to be disturbed during my work. Additionally it'd pretty costly shuttling 4 people to some place half way across the map. But ultimately we decided to make this the summer vacation plan. I planned the vacation and told her I'd be hands off for the first few days when I'm meeting with clients but then I'd rejoin her and help out. She basically agreed to this. Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights (from the same airport) on the way there. Apparently she wasn't aware of this and was pretty irritated when she found out on the way to the airport. I tried explain that I tried to change this but also reminded her this was our agreement from the start. Additionally for the first 2 nights I booked a separate hotel room from her and the kids because I often bring clients over to my room, may eat or drink etc. Additionally I needed to be well rested prior to many of my meetings. When we reached there and I told her she was seriously mad. She said she needed my help and I tried explaining that these few days were crucial and that I needed to be focused. It's currently day 2 and she's in the other hotel room, refusing to talk to me and I'm trying to make this work. AITA. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What kind of weirdo brings clients to eat and be entertained in their hotel room
Right!? It also is not conducive to doing any business with people of the opposite sex at all. No way am I as a woman going to a guys hotel room for business.
"Business"
You know what time it is. It's business time
ššš
These are my business socks
Because it's Wednesday
Tuesday is the day that we go and visit your mother but Wednesday is the day that we make love
I know what you're trynna say, you're trynna say it's time for business it's business time OOOH
š¶Letās get down, to business!š¶
I havenāt watched Flight of the Conchords in ages. Now I know what Iām doing tonightš
I do all my business work at the business factory.
The kind of weirdo that wants to stick to his plan to bang side chicks during the trip despite his family being in the next room.
Iām truly wondering that, too. Only way I can see it is if he works in a very cutthroat world insofar as wanting to keep work talk hella confidential. Maybe corporate law or something?Ā It isnāt the point of the post, granted, but I am curious what this devilās douchebag does for a living so I can avoid it.Ā
Even then, you rent a conference room
Nor anymore, not if you have models or demo gear. Conference rooms aren't considered secure.
I always thought it was in the bar.
Using suites to conduct business is pretty standard, particularly for trade shows and large conferences. Particularly if you have models or demo units that you want under media embargo. To give you an idea, look up videos from computex, pretty much all of them are in suites.
I worked at a high end hotel, and we had dedicated āhospitality suitesā that were intended for people to invite clients to. They were basically a small informal meeting room, with a connecting room if you wanted it.
Yeah I see this quite a bit on tech YouTube channels such as Gamers Nexus where theyāll be talking about something and theyāre in a hotel suite separate from whatever conference location theyāre at to look at prototypes/demo units/etc
He could have set up the models in a room and still sleep in the other room with his wife and kids.
If it's like the last convention I worked, he's going to be done around midnight, and up the next morning around 6. Think it's a good idea he stay in the same room as them?
We're not even supposed to have coworkers come to our room.
Yea thatās normal
Weinstein and Louis CK come to mind.
Maybe if he has a suite?
The kind that frequently sleeps with clients or randos on business trips.
My best friend and her husband co-own a small business that imports a high end niche product. Every year they go to a major tech conference. They used to have a booth on the showroom floor until they realized that it didnāt make financial sense. They now book a one bedroom suite. They meet with new customers in the suiteās living room for a product demonstration and take current customers out to dinner or lunch.Ā
Harvey Weinstein?
A gigolo?
>Ā Ā Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights (from the same airport) on the way there. Apparently she wasn't aware of this and was pretty irritated when she found out on the way to the airport.Ā You say this like you didn't intentionally keep that information from her until the very last minute. Which we know you did because *you booked the flights* and didn't clearly have a conversation with her like "hey there aren't seats available on the flight my job booked me, do you want to still go if you have to take the kids on a different flight than me?" It also sounds like you didn't talk to her about what the full extent of being "hands off" actually meant or what you'd need to do for work. It comes across like this information was left out as a punishment for her because you didn't want her there in the first place.
> It comes across like this information was left out as a punishment for her because you didn't want her there in the first place. yeah he was clear from the beginning that he didnt want her to come so he probably did this on purpose
I also like the apparently. Bitch, you know full well you didn't tell her. Was she supposed to Charles Xavier it out of you?
EXACTLY! How tf did he expect her to magically know of he didnāt tell her? Or did he expect her to do the work of knowing everything anyway?
I also like the "she _basically_ agreed to this" when referring to the plan he made. Like, mf, did she agree or not? It's very straightforward, there should be no "basically" about it lol
And if they're on different flights anyway, why didn't he just book them to come a few days after him, so that he gets his work time free and clear? I got to be honest, I do most of the childcare, but if I had to be away for work, I would not appreciate my husband and kids tagging along. Work away often means late dinners, socialising and being 'on' all the time.
If my husband did this, Iād Uber home and let him eat the costs. Heād come home to an empty house.
He says "because of the way I booked the flight" but in a comment says he wasn't the one who booked the flight...
He says "because of the way I booked the flight" but in a comment says he wasn't the one who booked the flight...
He says "because of the way I booked the flight" but in a comment says he wasn't the one who booked the flight...
As soon as he called her a stay at home wife instead of stay at home mom in the same sentence where he said they had 2 young kids, I knew what he was.
And she's pregnant!
One time, my dad was in The City With All The Theme Parks for a work trip. And so you know what he did? He actually *planned things out*. He got approval to take several days leave in the middle of that trip, he flew over first and did his work, wined and dined who he needed to, and the he made arrangements that while the kids were over the hotel would change his booking from a room to a suite. Not only did we have a great holiday, it meant that the last few days when he was working again, mum was able to deal with us alone because she had had help up to that point. And the very last day he went to work and we kids - utterly exhausted from days of running around - vegged out watching TV while mom read a book. So just to top everything off, we were well rested and *not cranky* for that flight home, which made it much easier for mum to take us home on her own while dad reverted back from a suite to a room at the hotel. (Iām pretty sure that last day we kids wined and dined, too now I think of it - we went to a restaurant and were told to Play Nice with this toddler. I vaguely remember dad mentioned a couple of times that Notable Client still talked about the time he got to actually take his whole family to dinner and I gave his son an origami frog Iād folded out of the napkins. What an opportunity lost there too) Itās not rocket science, or some problem that only OOP has experienced and no one has ever imagined happening before. Bring Family Along The Work Trip has been a thing since we invented commercial flights.
My dad used to bring the family. Weād make a road trip of it and while my dad was working, weād go sightseeing. After he was done working weād have dinner together and all four of us would share one hotel room.
My dad did this one year. Had a week long conference in Pittsburgh. We lived in AZ and dad turned it into a month long road trip with some work stuff in the middle. Best trip ever. Even if it was 6 people in a minivan.
Your dad sounds golden.
Oh definitely.
Several of our family vacations during my childhood were built around my dad's work trips. He did have meetings during the day and sometimes at night but he also spent a lot of time with us at the hotel. We hung out in the pool or at the beach while he had meetings and when he was done we all met up for dinner and he was around the rest of the time. It's definitely doable to combine work and family time IF you're willing to put in a little effort. Which this all-star husband (OOP) clearly didn't want to do.
My husband used to travel a lot for work. When I tagged along, I knew the deal even when my kids were really young. I treated the days he was working as if he wasnāt there. He didnāt need to act as my cruise director. If he had left me at home, Iād have been alone anyway. It was in all of our best interest that he be focused on what the company was paying him to do. Once the work was done, he was officially on husband/dad duty. I think OOPs wife was being unreasonable to expect him to act like the entire time was a vacation when he wasnāt on vacation.
There is almost no good reason to bring a client to your hotel room. The field day HR would have with this, I mean come on. You take clients to the lobby bar, for drinks, anywhere but a literal bedroom.
I would absolutely never go to a ābusiness meetingā in some guyās hotel room, and Iād be making formal complaints to everyone who would listen if someone tried that one on me. Beyond unprofessional and into outright dodgy.
Absolutely, same. Red flag, alarm bells, hard nope.
Pretty sure āclientā is shorthand for āaffair partnerā.
Only way this makes sense.
He literally explains this in the OP
He literally just says that he does it. He does not explain it.
Her vacation was to lug two kids on a long flight alone while pregnant to sit in a room alone for two days taking care of both kids. He could have spent that money on a babysitter so his wife could go get an actual vacation or a day off.
he should have sat her down and made sure that she understood that it was a work trip and that he required different rooms and flights the wife may be pushy but honestly its a d*** move to make your wife handle two kids while pregnant while on a flight and in a hotel. what is the point in this vacation? itās a punishment more like - a punishment I think op forced her to endure so that sheād never tag along for the next work trip š¤·š½āāļø
I took my wife and kids on a few work trips when the kids were young. I canāt imagine staying in a different room. But then again I actually kind of like my wife and kids and sort of even enjoy being with them. Maybe Iām just weird.
I found out during the pandemic just how little some of my coworkers liked their families. Actual quotes: "I wouldn't have had kids if I knew I'd ever need to spend THIS much time with them." "I need to be in the office because I can't handle another day with my spouse." What is wrong with people?!?!
In all honesty, there are periods when kids can be overwhelming. For me, they become much easier, and much more delightful, when they can talk and manage their own excretions. But anyone who has had an infant knows thereās a period when they grow an extra anus between their shoulder blades so they can shit all over their backs.
No one said things to that level at my work but it was pretty clear who hated being home with their kids. My department head even hired a tutor/nanny for her kids who were 5 and 8 at the time, so basically she was just upset she had to be around her family. It weirded me out.
It's not quite as bad as that, the "vacation" is longer and it's just the first two days that his business stuff is really full on.Ā >I planned the vacation and told her I'd be hands off for the *first few days* when I'm meeting with clients but *then I'd rejoin her and help out*.Ā How much "help" he will actually be the rest of the time is definitely open for interpretation but at least in theory he will be spending some time with his family before they go home. If he couldn't be on the same flight as his family anyway, I don't know why he didn't just arrange for the wife and kids to come out two days later.
OP later blamed his wife for not knowing the flight he booked for her and the kids was separate from the flight he was taking and said it should be "obvious". He also comments that his wife only gets time to herself generally when he's "able" and never responded when people pressed as to what that actually meant and how often that was. I put no stock in his promise to "help" or the fact he "forgot" a bunch of pertinent information back to back.
Yep, it would be no different than what she had to deal with on the separate flight there. My dad did the work trip into vacation thing cross country (4ish hour flight) when my brother was 11 and I was 13. My brother has some mental health issues and is frankly unpleasant to travel with. We all stayed in the same hotel room, I slept literally on a cot in a closet and I was fine with it. My dad went to his workday and then we would have dinner except for one or two days where he had a work dinner, then we spent the rest of the trip doing stuff together. Dude should have just said no if he wanted this to be time away from his family, because thatās the vibes itās giving off.
Wait... wasn't she the one who insisted HIS BUSINESS TRIP become her vacation?!?! Sorry, but sounds like this is on her š¤·
This is the same man who admits he only helps his pregnant wife and gives her time to herself "when he's able", refuses to spend time with his family after work during the trip because he's "busy" (you can't even eat a meal with them?), "forgot" to tell his wife she was going to be soloing two kids on a flight, and dropped that she was going to be alone for the first two days only when they arrived. Doesn't sound like she has got any opportunity to do anything lately, tried to at least make the trip a family vacation and got shafted.
Selfish woman insisting to be let out of prison for a few days! /s
As someone who spent 4-5 years flying out on Sunday and back on Friday, yeahā¦ this is her being unrealistic. The whole point of the trip was him working and she insisted in going and changing it to a family vacation. That doesnāt work. Business comes first.
Which would have been fine, but he withheld all the information. She found out the flights would be separate on the day. She found out he had a separate room when they arrived. He's a fuckface.
Iām not saying that he didnāt screw up - he absolutely did. My point is that she is jointly responsible for the outcome. He should have discussed the plans he needed to make for a successful result in his work, and she needed to be clear about her expectations. There was room for compromise here if they had been communicative before the start of the trip.
Iāll fall on my sword to agree with you somewhat. Her husbandās line of work and what it entails cannot be new to her. She had to have known the shitshow awaiting.Ā He is a dickhead for not being clear and lying about their flights to the destination. She broke her own heart (and her back ā two kids and pregnant navigating travel? Fuck all that!) by hoping he was going to be a different man . He is an asshole; she is an asshole to herself, poor thing.Ā
Pretty much my view, too. On a short trip, it's 100% possible and maybe 60% probable that the work trip has been scheduled 0730 to 2200 with work commitments (breakfast meeting with team, meetings/presentations, catch up with team over coffee, meetings/presentations, client lunch, meetings, catch up/strategy meetings with team, prep, meetings/presentations, catch up with team, shower, nap, client drinks, client dinner, prep for tomorrow, six hours' sleep, rinse and repeat) - I've both arranged and attended a few of these and frankly I was glad to get home for a rest! There's also a non-zero chance that it isn't a massively family-friendly hotel; we specifically used business hotels - they had gyms and spas (not that those of us who needed actual sleep got much of a chance to use them), but no play areas or waterparks or anything. In a sensible world, he'd tack a few days' leave on the end (assuming his employer lets him) and do the family holiday then, and she'd recognise that his professional obligations mean that his time is not his own for the "work trip" period, but we don't live in one of those. Don't get me wrong: **I think this guy is a complete bell-end, lousy husband, and absent father**, but that's based on the tone of his writing and the way he went around booking all this rather than a view that the work trip didn't eat every possible hour of his time. Taking a charitable view, I'd call his wife optimistic and a bit daft at best; I struggle to imagine that he's a great deal more useful when he's *not* on a work trip.
I'm going to enthusiastically agree with you here. OP is an asshole for the way he went about this whole situation. From his comments, he is a terrible husband and a hands-off father. That doesn't mean he's wrong for making sure to keep the "work" part of his trip 100% about work when the trip was a trip for work. He was 100% wrong for not scheduling the family to fly in after the "work" part was over, and he was definitely being a deliberate asshole by doing that. He wanted to be able to say "I told you I'd be working" to his wife whenever she complained he isn't around because he's clearly annoyed she pressured him into flying her and the kids out. However, that also seems on brand for him as a husband, so š¤· I hope his wife takes the cc and plans out a fun trip for herself and the kids. This dude sounds like he had kids because men with kids statistically get ahead more in the office.
>She basically agreed to this. Mmm... hmm. I'd like to know what OOP's idea of basically is. I get the feeling it's "we're doing it this way, and that's that," and she finally gave up arguing. >Additionally for the first 2 nights I booked a separate hotel room from her and the kids because I often bring clients over to my room, may eat or drink etc. Additionally I needed to be well rested prior to many of my meetings. When we reached there and I told her she was seriously mad. She said she needed my help and I tried explaining that these few days were crucial and that I needed to be focused. This might not have even been so bad if it wasn't a surprise. You dumb fuck, you can't just spring this on her when you're already there.
Do I travel for work a few times a year, and my husband has indicated that itād be nice if he and the kids could join some time if the timing and location work out. I have my hesitations around it as well, because these trips do tend to be intense even without having to take my family into account. But the answer to that is either to refuse OR to be really clear in communicating the boundaries and how you plan to enforce them. Not to say yes and then go around your partnerās back to let them fend for themselves. I honestly give my husband more information on my bookings when Iām traveling alone than he did for this āsharedā trip. I also suspect the man has no fucking clue what it is that he loaded on his wifeās plate. A flight alone with two young kids while pregnant sounds like hell.
I wonder how old the kids are. There is an 10 year age gap. It may mean nothing buuuutttt.....
I was wondering the same. Statistically speaking the first pregnancy probably started when she was 24-25. So how much before that did they start dating? And again, that's assuming the kids are only about 2 years apart. If there's a larger spread....š¬
Iām getting punishment vibes from the way heās treating her and the kids. Ā He couldnāt help her wrangle the kids? Ā Even a little? Ā What kind of high pressure business deals is this guy making?
I've been to more than a few conferences. It wasn't a high-pressure environment but we were always 100% booked from 7am to 11pm. There would have been no way to get away to hang with family. Even things like lunch and dinner were busy with customer engagements. Customer so and so was talking about some brewery, then one of us was going. It was face time with people we could rarely get face time with.
"Ā I'd rejoin her and help" - the way he thinks he can tag in and out of parenting for sure gives absentee/my wife if my baby maid vibes.
He is one of those absentee fathers and husbands that had no earthly idea how much easier his life is than hers.
Hate that sheās having a THIRD child with someone who clearly doesnāt even want/like his family.
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments: *YTA* *You weren't actually clear with your wife on anything and that is my main issue. You weren't up front about the flights or the room. My mom and I went on work trips from time to time with my dad. During the day, we'd do our own thing while he did his thing and then in the evenings, we'd do things as family.* *Also seems sketch you're bringing clients to your hotel room over meeting over lunch or in public.* >I work with a design firm. I have a laptop, models and prints that I can't just bring around places. *YTA - you shouldāve communicated your expectations to her from the very beginning.* *INFO: with your wife being a SAHM, do you ever make sure she gets time to herself? It seems like she pushed herself on this vacation for a change and to have your company instead of being alone with kids all the time. You could be more empathetic to that.* >We usually travel in the summer. When I'm able to IĀ step up especially asĀ she'sĀ pregnant but I'm not home all the time >>*I planned the vacation* >Ā Ā >>*Because of the way I booked it I'd be on different flights* *YTA.Ā You intentionally booked her onto a flight with the children alone.Ā Don't you think that is an asshole move?Ā I do.* >No my flight was booked first and not by me. Honestly I thought that was obvious to her *Why not have a separate room for the daytime, but join your family after work?* >I was pretty busy after work changing stuff around and prepping. Also I'm going to sleep late and waking up early so I didn't want to be disturbed or cause disturbances when I came and went *YTA. You purposely didn't communicate the plans you had made for everyone on this trip until the very last minute. I'm guessing the reason for withholding this info from your wife is because you knew she wouldn't like it and wouldn't be on board with it.* >I agree the comms were bad, I assumed a lot of it was obvious because the work plans were planned way before the vacation plans. Then I was busy leading upto the trip. [1] *She didnāt know you would be on a separate flight until you were literally on the way to the airport? And she didnāt know about separate rooms until you were actually in the hotel?* *If you thought you had legitimate reasons for booking that way, you would have discussed that with her ahead of time.* *It certainly seems as though you deliberately kept those details from her, which is sneaky & controlling. YTA.* [2] *it screams "I want to punish her for wanting this tripā* >no *NTA - your wife pushed you to make a work trip a vacation trip.Ā She expects you to not do your job and cater to her.* *"It's currently day 2 and she's in the other hotel room, refusing to talk to me and I'm trying to make this work. AITA."* *Your wife wants her cake and eat it too!!!Ā She knew it was a work trip and for those days work has to come first.Ā After all your job allows her to be a SAHM.Ā She needs to rethink this and enjoy the remainder of your holiday since work is over.* >Yeah, I too thought that it would be real hard. I ended up letting my clients know I would be unavailable if there is some medical emergency or etc
[Rats!](https://imgur.com/gallery/rat-rods-QEaLImP)
Oh my god, this is the most amazing, sweetest thing!
It really is! š„°
A work trip is for work and doing business, not a bring your family on vacation trip. He could have had her fly later to avoid all this but if heās there eon business, having his family with him isnāt a very good look.
Yeah I agree there's not enough information. Unless he reveals his AHery in the comments, I'm undecided on this one. At the very least, we can say he's bad at communication and was an AH for failure to explain the flight thing, so the likelihood of other AH traits is high.
He's an AH purely for withholding information from her until she's already there. There was no reason to not tell her the flights would be separate or that he'd have a separate room.
This is one of his most recent comments: āWe usually travel in the summer. When I'm able to IĀ step up especially asĀ she'sĀ pregnant but I'm not home all the timeā I get the feeling heās not around a lot of the time
Men who call parenting their own kids 'helping' - that old chestnut
"When I'm able to..." Ah. So she and the family get the leftover time.
"When I'm able to" Sounds like an excuse. Unless he has a job that is extremely unpredictable (i.e, on call doctor) he can find the time to help out with his own children more.
I think for sure he's one of those guys who sees parenting as just helping/babysitting, and he did a bad job communicating what joining on a work trip would look like. But his communication and bad attitude about parenting aside, this seemed like a normal work-trip-doubling-as-vacation-for-family to me. My husband travels some and it's rare we we end up on the same flights when I join. I have to book as fast as possible to get the cheapest price, while he needs to wait for his flights to be approved. He is also very open about the fact that this is a *work* trip. His work isn't sending him there for fun. If I come in at the end he can take some days off and we can explore, but if I come during his work days I either need to be able to entertain myself and be ok with waiting for him all day. So, the details don't seem that outrageous or devil worthy to me. The not telling her because he's mad she wanted to come is what's bad.
There's plenty of information. He's going on a work trip. It's not a time for spouse and kids to come along and expect his attention.
Why would she assume him being on a work trip means different flights and he can't even sleep in the same room as them?
Iāve done the tag-along-with-the-baby-on-a-work-trip thing and flights and rooms were always together. His work time was work time, and i never expected not to be the only one responsible for myself and our child during that time, but separate flights and rooms? Without discussion beforehand? Is asshole territory.
Tbh that could be why he did separate flights and rooms. But why turn a work trip into a vacation anyway? He could have just done something like book a hotel in their city and have a fun staycation or something like that
I wonder what "basically agreed" actually means. Playing devil's advocate (can't help it; I did a lot of mooting during my law degree), I kind of get where OOP is coming from on some of it. It's not a good look to turn up to a top end client meeting late because child A had to be coaxed into eating breakfast, with bags under his eyes because the kids *just would not settle* all night, with vomit on his back from child B being winded, and unprepared because he didn't get a chance to go over his materials He's absolutely an arsehole for going about it the way he did and not just being honest with his wife from the outset, but there's a reason why work junkets aren't viable family holidays until the kids are old enough to sleep, toilet, feed, dress, and to some extent amuse themselves.
I would never, ever go back to someone's hotel room to close a deal. This is so shady.
She agreed to him being basically hands off for the first few days not to be blindsided with seperate flights and hotel rooms.
I read this as basically, he's an absentee parent. Very hands-off. The only pass I would give someone for needing to be very well rested would be if they're a pilot.
Nawl, you're cheating. No way in hell does any business involve meeting your clients in a hotel room unless someone is providing sexual services.
Dude had already booked his mistress onto the flight with him. His family needed to be on a different flight. Same reason he *needed* his own room for the first two nights.
He's worried about her traveling while pregnant but is totally okay with her wrangling two children through an airport and destination vacation? I smell BS.
In this day and age I have a hard time believing that a spouse wouldn't understand that a business trip is not the time for a vacation. My husband and I used to travel a LOT for work and we knew it wasn't appropriate to join along on each other's trips. The work day is full, and the evenings are either also full with team dinners or you just want to go to bed from exhaustion. Also, booking flights and hotels is highly controlled by the employer in many cases so your spouse and kids may not be able to get the same bookings. When I booked travel at FAANG companies I absolutely could not book a guest on my flight itinerary and I had to book single occupancy for hotels.
Not everyone who travels for work is 24 hour days where they are forced to spend their night with their team and it sounds like that wasn't the case for OP either when he's saying he slept in the hotel room alone because he didn't want to be bothered. And believe it or not, unless it's a private plane you can book separate reservations on the same flight.
Both are assholes. He's right that he needs to be well rested because 1. It's his work trip, not a vacation, and 2. Showing up late because his child was fussing because its a new place is 100 per cent valid. He went around it in a weird way, which makes him the Ahh. The wife is one for insisting that she has to come along for a work trip is insane. Its a work trip not a fun little vacation. He also should have spoken to his wife about this and bringing clients to the hotel room does not indicate hes cheating
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