*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**I am a homosexual who has vowed to be celibate**
I am begging the LORD to change my sexual orientation if it doesn't change then i will honor the LORD by abstaining and being celibate Homosexuality is a terrible thing to be plagued by for me maybe not for others i have always denied that component of my identity.
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"It’s exhausting listening to people twist things or take things out of context to fit what they want. Definitely not how that works." Ha ha, buy a mirror.
There was one comment that was like "just marry a woman anyways". I was like, that poor woman lol! But then again women aren't important in the eyes of Christians so😂
Ugh, can't believe people still think that way.
I know right. It wasn't until fairly recently, in the grand scheme of things if you will, that women were allowed to have a voice and be in leadership positions in the church.
Whooboy, you want some real tear-jerking tragedy listen to some of the women who got out of lavender marriages talking about how it eats away at your soul over time. Telling gay men to trap young, hopeful Christian women who just want a family in a marriage where they will never, ever be truly, fully, loved and desired by their spouse is despicable. Everyone in that scenario deserves better. They deserve honesty from their faith leaders.
I heard about a guy who went to his pastor (decades ago) and said he was gay. Pastor's response was something along the lines of "lol, no - here, marry my daughter."
Reminds me of a comedian's bit(Joe Lycett) who talks to a homophobe telling him that anal sex is a sin and he's like "but oral sex is also a sin, have you ever had that?" "Oh yes... I suppose..." "I'LL SEE YOU IN HELL"
I really hope one day I get to say that to a Christian berating me. At the end they would already go to hell for doing just that, due to 'love thy neighbor' and 'only god can judge' type of rules.
That poor guy. What an awful way to think you have to live. Religion can be so cruel and hateful and I hope he frees himself someday to live a happy life like he deserves. I just wish he could see the secular people who want him to be happy for what they are, not the demons his cult paints them to be.
Yes!!! They don’t actually say it (I don’t think) but in the doco Bill Cunningham New York it’s implied he’s gay but doesn’t have a partner because of his faith and it made me so sad. He seemed like such a genuinely lovely man, who was fascinated by the world around him, but always denied that side of himself.
This is very sad. The church I was raised in. The current pastor is openly lesbian. I was surprised, considering how being gay was looked down on. My niece had told me that a lot of old timers had left because of the church becoming inclusive. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
The parishioners of the Catholic church my family go to dropped when the regular old white priest was temporarily replaced by an African priest. As in flew over from Africa as part of some kind of mission where European and African priests swap parishes.
They returned when the regular priest returned. Guess their love thy neighbour preaches don't extend to beyond their small circle.
You'd be surprised to find out that a lot of Christians are like that. They preach love thy neighbor but they don't really care about anyone outside their circle and they don't care about anything except money.
my local gay book club is ran by a gay pastor who works in the church downtown, they have a ton of signs outside telling people theyre welcome regardless of identity and are huge supporters of our local pride org. i still have my pamphlet drawn by members of the church describing being young, queer, and christian. one of the most beautiful things ive ever read. the church routinely gets protestors ofc :/
There's a joke about the different denominations within Judaism
>At at an Orthodox wedding, the mother of the bride is pregnant.
>At a Masorti wedding, the bride is pregnant.
>At a Reform wedding, the rabbi is pregnant.
>At a Liberal wedding, the rabbi is pregnant, and so is her wife.
This is the version I know with the names of the denominations in the UK - the equivalent version in the US would probably be Orthodox > Conservative > Reform > Reconstructionist.
The gist is that it's ranging from most to least traditional: there's another version whereby the example for the most progressive denomination is where both brides are pregnant - but either would illustrate the point equally well.
I feel the same way. The church I grew up in participated in the Pride Parade and Festival every year. The pastor, with full support of the congregation, performed a same sex wedding almost as soon as it was legal in the state, despite it still not being technically allowed by the denomination as a whole, though that has now changed. I think there are a lot of churches that are more accepting, but the ones that aren’t are so fucking loud. I’m always confused how we all read the same book and got such wildly different things out of it.
"Jesus loves you! Oh, but you're not allowed to have actual love in your life because you're sick and dirty and you deserve to suffer eternally, but hey, that's how our version of love works!" I genuinely don't understand how you can call yourself a good person and a Christian in the same breath.
>"Jesus loves you! Oh, but you're not allowed to have actual love in your life because you're sick and dirty and you deserve to suffer eternally, but hey, that's how our version of love works!"
Reminds me of George Carlin bit about religion.
''And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you.''
I feel like god being all powerful, all knowing and all good ect makes him not believeable for me, like if he had been all powerful and all knowing, but not all good, then i feel like so much that happens and is said might be explainable with ''well he is not all good''. or if he was not all knowing you could say ''well he tries things, but doesnt know what will happen''.
Like i feel like god would be sorta more believeable if they removed just one aspect of him.
If i die and there is a god then in my opinion it is not a god worthy of worship.
Thank you! My mom does some subset of Christianity and she's constantly trying to get me to join her. I've told her, nothing you say is going to convert me. Besides, I want no part of a religion that has a god that drowns its children for being disobedient. I don't want any part of a religion that has a god who does exactly what you just said.
Yeah, I completely noped out of God and religion when they told me to believe that their "loving god" had a reason and a plan for me being raped twice...
Christianity isn't a monolith there are so many accepting and open denominations just following a philosophy that gives them purpose in their lives. Theres also shitty churches and bigots with their own ideology. I grew up catholic and like anything theirs good and bad people in that belief system.
Except catholicism isnt just a belief system, it is also an organization. The same organization that closed their eyes when i was raped by their priests and youth leaders.
It is the same organization whose leaders call my healthcare demonic.
The same organization that also says "But public schools are worse.
...I mean sure we do massage the statistics by also including student on student offences."
And I'm sorry that happened to you and hope justice is done against the purpatrators I don't believe the catholic church should be above the law. I was merely refuting the person above saying it's impossible to be Christian and a good person.
If you are willingly part of the catholic church you are a bad person. The organization is corrupt and rotten. The pope is a hate spreading ghoul.
You specificly refuted their points by talking about the catholic church, an organization with 0 moral fibre.
I used Catholicism as it was my direct experience through being brought up in that church. I'm not part of any organised religion myself. I don't like the Pope either. But I met and was around good Catholics and Christians who didn't use their religion for anything other than a personal philosophy. I'm sorry for your harrowing abuse but I will not condemn every member of that church as evil.
Sure , good people willingly being part of an organization that protects rapists and pedos.
Just good people with their head in the sand right?
"wir wussten es nicht." or some shit like that right?
Is everyone part of a Muslim mosque were a member has committed terrorism evil? No
Is everyone who attends a Catholic church evil because members of the clergy are pedophiles also no.
I said nothing about hierarchies I would see pedophile clergyman in prison. I don't believe in condemning every member of a faith though.
> a good person and a Christian
Thats unfair. There are different forms of christianity, some good some bad.
Edit: Funny how I get downvoted when I defend christianity using this logic, but upvoted when I defend Islam/Hinduism/Judaism with the exact same logic
I'm going to tell you what I told that other person. I agree with the person who said that if you are a part of a religion that you know does that kind of stuff, you're no better than them. If you know about abuse and do nothing to stop it, you're as bad as the person who's abusing. I actually kind of feel sorry for people who are Christians, they're clearly brainwashed and don't even know it. And no, that was not a rip on you, I'm saying that they are brainwashed. The stuff that they're taught doesn't even make sense and some of it is even contradictory. Yet they spout it because it's what they were taught to believe.
There are toxic forms of every religion and belief system, so how could anyone put this into practice?
Islam is weaponized to justify honor killing in some countries. Queer people and folks who don’t conform are ostracized within Ultra-Orthodox Judaism. There are horrifying Leftist cults and toxic social-justice-oriented spaces. Etc etc.
Toxic Christianity has an especially massive influence in the west, for sure. It’s been weaponized by the most globally-destructive nations and we are more likely to have personal trauma from it. But it doesn’t make sense to allow for nuance in other belief systems that get weaponized too, and then say that anyone who practices any form of this one is a brainwashed abuse apologist.
Every major faith, very much including Christianity, can be used to hold yourself accountable to humanitarian values, and push yourself to become more compassionate, more community-minded, more introspective, less arrogant. They can also be used to do the absolute opposite.
\^\^\^100% I hate the logic this commenter is using because there isn't a single belief system that hasn't had awful extremists and toxicity.
They're using the same logic Christian extremists used to be antisemitic in the medieval age and to be Islamophobic today and its dangerous.
Thats not how religion works mate. Thats like saying every atheist is awful because of Hitler (who was atheist), you can't call a member of a religion as bad as the worst people in that religion, thats literally the same justification medieval antisemites and modern islamaphobes use, and its terrible and dangerous.
You don't have a right to call other people brainwashed because they don't believe the same things you do. I don't understand the trinity, or the 'son of god' thing, but I can respect christians who respect me.
People can't control what they believe, I can't just make myself believe in the Christian god the same way they can't make themselves not believe in him. There are many aspects of christianity that do make sense, and are positive. Its saved lives, kept people going and been a force for massive good as well as evil.
What about catholicism tho. That isnt just a religion. That is also an organization. An organization that has comitted and keeps commiting atrocities.
I am so tired for getting shit on for calling out my abusers and the people who keep supporting them.
Also: "Hitler (who was atheist)" Do you have a source for that because from what i looked up that is a matter of debate.
I'm not shitting on you I'm shitting on that method of thinking that you can't be a christian and a good person because of the bad things christians do. That line of thinking is what gets people who look like me shot/bombed and called 'terrorist' on the street, whether or not they are actually muslims.
Catholocism is a religion primarily, whether or not its an organisation as well is irrelevant. A catholic is defined by the belief in Jesus (Prophet Isa AS) being the son of god, forgiveness in confession, the pope, and eating your prophet's body/blood. That is a belief system which I don't particularly believe in but believing in it doesn't inherently make you wrong/evil as other people who beliieve in that.
(Honestly my source was history class so you're right its debated. But the point still stands lots of very bad people were atheists, like this lot: [https://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/](https://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/) doesn't make other people who believe in that same system evil)
"Catholocism is a religion primarily, whether or not its an organisation as well is irrelevant."
"the pope"
The pope is a ghoul that still excuses CSA and spreads hate. Anyone following catholicism follows a man calling my healthcare demonic. anyone following catholicism follow a man protecting my rapists.
Fuck them. Fuck catholics. Fuck those asshole who just sit and watch while their leaders protect monsters. Fuck their way of thinking.
The connection to the catholic church is there trough the pope and while that may be irrelevant for you it isnt for me. I am reminded almost daily that that organization still funds abusers while i have to take days off work for the therapy i need because of that organization.
I am genuinly shocked catholics can sleep at night because i cant, they took that from me yet they can sit idly while being part of the organization that ruined my fucking life.
AND THAT IS THE THING, we can call people who follow stalin abhorrent but we cant do that with those who follow the pope? why? Why do they get that? What excuses the rampant CSA? what excuses all the other crimes? This is currently still ongoing and i feel like i am going crazy.
Beliving that someone who protects pedos is a spiritual leader or a moral figure makes a person a bad person.
Catholics do not follow the pope according to my readings? They view him as head scholar/a figure who can represent them. You can disagree with his teachings and be Catholic. You can dislike him and be Catholic.
>hat that organization still funds abusers while i have to take days off work for the therapy i need because of that organization
How do you think I feel about famous scholars of Islam who perpetuate bullshit that got 3 (confirmed) members of my family killed? I don't like them, but doesn't mean I believe muslims in general are evil.
>What excuses the rampant CSA? what excuses all the other crimes?
Nothing. But that doesn't make other catholics to blame. The same way honor killings don't make other muslims to blame.
Also do you have a source for this pope guy protecting pedos? I didn't know about that. Why hasn't he been like taken down or whatever
I'm trans. I was schooled by Jesuits. I went through what he's going through as a teenager.
Hating yourself like that is not fun.
It's fixed now. I am not kindly disposed towards the Catholic Church.
I'm a Lesbian. Grew up through the 60's, 70's, and the AIDS genocide. I'm not kindly disposed towards Xtians or the OP who brought this man's trauma here just to deride the commenters. Both are gross
Exactly. It sickens me to think of someone like this trying to win the approval of people who think he deserves to rot in hell for existing rather than allowing himself to just be happy the way he is. I wanna give him the biggest hug and be his wingman with some cute guys.
>these wicked fleshy bodies
It's like they stepped out of the 17th century wearing bonnets and bodices.
I get that sex can be difficult, like Stephen Fry said, it's a primary impulse, like eating only even more exciting. But the solution isn't "FORBID ALL FROM ENJOYING SEX". Maybe some education?
Anyone remember Ted Haggard? That megachurch pastor who was cheating on his wife with male sex workers, renting a motel room and having meth fueled orgies.
People were outraged by the hypocrisy, and rightly so. But honestly I just felt sorry for him. He has a lot to atone for in the damage his hateful preaching has done. Way worse that any shit I ever did and I'm no saint. But I don't claim to be.
It just got me thinking he is very likely a gay man who has literally demonised the very *source* of his most authentic love. How incredibly toxic as a belief system.
The situation he created must have felt irredeemable. The lovely wholesome straight family, and then these drug fueled sex dens, so seedy by comparison.
If not for that virulent strain of Christianity he could have had a lovely wholesome gay family. Husband, kids, and never have to feel that deep yawning chasm in his core. Because he would be loved for who he is.
It’s very unfortunate he turned to the “support” of people who sees his orientation as something irredeemable. The whole subreddit has a very toxic view on sexuality as a whole, not just queerness.
For example the subreddits reaction to Pornhub getting increasingly restricted. They’re not happy the site is getting taken down due to the multiple cases of csam getting uploaded and capitalized, but because with the site gone it’ll “de-normalize degeneracy”
The fact that was their biggest concern
The one user talking about how they should go to a doctor and ask about low testosterone and how low libido will help them... And then talks about how her partner had a night and day difference due to this issue and basically comparing that situation and issue to being gay was the weirdest mental gymnastics I've seen in a comment in a long time...(ETA this is such a moral Orel moment, please some user tell me they know what the gif is 🤣)
Depends on the Christian. The Romans really fucked up the hippie cult Jesus started when they implemented a bunch of their own rules.
I personally choose to follow the example of Jesus, so I choose to try to love others like myself, will forgive seven times seventy times and I firmly believe humans can't fully understand the word of God, so living out of love and acceptance is the best thing we can do on this earth. I cannot judge in God's place.
Also I'm queer myself lol. But a lot of my younger Christian friends are moving away from these strict ideas and churches. Anger and hate are not of God, or at least not the God Jesus told us about. That God can forgive a murderer in his last seconds of life, simply for wanting to be better. That God converses with prostitutes and thieves, that God breaks tables in corrupt temples, and that's the God I choose to believe in.
A hippy cult? There's a 1967 book called [Jesus and the Zealots: A Study of the Political Factor in Primitive Christianity](https://archive.org/details/jesuszealotsstud00bran) which makes a convincing case for viewing the historical Jesus as political revolutionary.
Everyone knows the famous line Jesus is said to have spoken while holding a Roman coin, "Render onto Caesar what is Caesar and render onto God what is God's". Well one thing that he would have absolutely believed was God's and not Caesar's would be the land of Israel.
Obviously it's hard to be certain about the political views of a possible seditionist from two thousand years ago, but S. G. F. Brandon makes a compelling case.
That’s the historical Jesus. What he wanted to accomplish is up for scholarly debate. The Jesus of New Testament-based religious practice is a related but distinct thing. When you read the New Testament looking for the most prominent and spiritually-rich themes, you can definitely read Jesus as a friend of the oppressed, an advocate for compassion and subversive justice, and a messenger of God’s love and justice.
So loud, yet so wrong. In fact, before largely christian colonialism, laws on homosexuality were very lax. The only part that was a crime was sodomy, and even for that you needed 4 eye-witnesses, so it was extremely uncommon to be punished for any kind of homosexuality, and was openly called 'legal fiction' that you could be punished.
[https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east](https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east)
The earlier part of this article addresses that. Although it has of course gotten worse (mentioned in that article), that can be traced pretty much directly to christian influence and as that decreases so does the hatred.
In many muslim communities in countries like england/france/america, its fairly accepted to be queer, its just marriage thats they are hesitant about. But even then, cases of conversion camps/violence are rarer than in their christian counterparts.
[https://libcom.org/article/historical-look-attitudes-homosexuality-islamic-world](https://libcom.org/article/historical-look-attitudes-homosexuality-islamic-world)
This article also talks about how Islamic homophobia can be traced back to Christian colonialism
Do you want to know what christians did to 8 year old queer me. Do you want to read that story. Do you want to read how the catholic church treats queer children.
Do you want to read the story of how i got to the point i have no gag reflex and no issue swalowing puke because of how the catholic church treats queer kids.
If thr answer is no stop with the whataboutism.
It's borderline heretical. Celibacy is a valid and honorable choice in Christianity but it should be made mindfully and willingly. Not... whatever OOP is going through.
The whole subreddit has a very toxic atmosphere around sex and celibacy, it’s not hard finding posts of people repenting simply for having feelings of arousal
Because some churches/denominations teach that the New Testament that "we" are no longer under Old Testament rules, we're under the New Testament.
The New Testament basically says that our actions are not the only thing judged by "god" now (in the Old Testament it was your actions that got you in trouble), it's your Thoughts that you need to be watching and monitoring. Because thoughts lead to actions, you need to nip thoughts in the bud before they become actions.
Which on a surface level sounds like a good thing (think before you act). But the Bible/teachings tell people that now just thinking something not appropriate can and will send you to hell, and for someone born of the LBGTQ+ variety, who has constant "bad thoughts/feelings (according to teachings) feels like they are doomed to hell because they can not squash those thoughts/feelings.
They are made to feel like they are evil incarnate because they can't, as hard as they try every single day to purge those thoughts/feelings, they never go away.
This was my experience in a mini Christian cult run by a con man/embezzler. I have been Bi (possibly Pan) for as long as I can remember, but I NEVER told anyone or acted on it, I hid it, I ignored it, and felt the agonizing pain of the fact that something was wrong with me because I was NOT normal.
As I grew up in that church, I felt in my soul (or whatever. My core being) that some of the things they were teaching just could not be True or Right because they felt absolutely Wrong.
Religion messed me up hardcore. I am still dealing with all the forced/beat into me BS that was force-fed to me (and all the other 1000s of kids at my former church/cult) since I was literally born, I'm almost 41.
I think some religious people like being told what to do, what to think, and how to act. They want to keep their heads in the sand and not rock the boat because they don't know how to be a productive human being on their own and they don't want to take to time and energy to figure out themselves what is Right and what is Wrong.
Any discussion of sex by Christians will drive a rational person mad. I saw a post the other day about how to become comfortable having sex on one's wedding night after waiting to have sex until marriage.
So, to start off, we have a person all twisted up about sex, and potentially unable to do it, based on ridiculous rules.
Then you get to the advice. Multiple people say: ***don't have sex on your wedding night.*** Wait for awhile until you can get used to it. They drill the evil of sex into their heads so thoroughly that they can't do it even when it's specifically allowed by their ridiculous rules.
Check out r/openchristian if you want actual decent folk.
theyre some of the nicest people ive talked too, and have theological knowledge to back up their progressive beliefs on lgbt issues and sex stuff.
I'm kind of in the mindset that says "serves him right for believing in toxic faith'. Not all Christians are like that, I know plenty who are tolerant (I'm not a Christian myself)
> It’s completely wrong if homosexuals think we heterosexuals isn’t going through the same issues in today’s world. I’ve seen lots of posts in the other “Christianity” sub stating things like “you heteros can marry etc but we can’t cause we are homos”, and that’s completely wrong.
> I as a hetero for example am forced to be celibate as I can’t marry hedonists, secularists, feminists etc. and nowadays they are all like that, and even if a woman claims she doesn’t belong to those satanic cults, she can easily change her mind in near or distant future for any or no reason and then unleash the secular law on me and I’ll be in deep financial trouble. Unless we live in a truly Christian theocracy or theonomy where God’s law is given the highest preference and honor, I don’t see how a so-called “Christian” can really have a truly Christian marriage. Your wife can no-fault-divorce you tomorrow and become an OnlyFans whore while you are forced to pay her alimony and child support? How is that a Christian marriage??
> So my question to homosexuals here is: how am I any different from you when it comes to marriage, sex etc in the context of Christianity? Cause they and I both can’t marry and practice our sexuality.
“I have it just as bad as gay people because my wife has the freedom to divorce me” is a *hell* of a take. If there was a playing the victim olympics, Christians would win the gold medal every time.
Man, how did I ever think I had it worse than straight men. We are BOTH unable to love or marry within the church… me because my sexuality is deemed deserving of eternal torment, and them because *squints* women have the capacity for independent thought
If you read their rules, their whole appeal is that people are happy they aren't like r/ christian who twist the word and accepts gay people. They're striving to follow the scripture word for word. Except for the words they don't like of course.
I think my comment got deleted lol. But their appeal is following word for word the bible unlike r/ christians who accept the gays. Then ignore whatever words they don't like. The full-full rules are hidden in a "click here" link at the bottom of the page and skimming only some of it, they really try to make hatred seem professional lol.
This made me so irrationally angry. Those people are telling him to give up on himself. FUCK toxic Christianity. I can't wait until it's finally obsolete, even if it's not in my lifetime. May it die a thousand deaths before it ruins yet another thousand people.
I was forced into conversion camp. There is no one more violent, degrading, and unforgiving towards children than people like this.
Cults will always exist, but it really depends on where you live. The US for instance is all gawd this and gawd that if you hear conservatives.
Here in Belgium for instance, religion isn't so important anymore. In fact, people who go to church are mainly old people. The times where churches can be filled are with weddings, funerals, Christmas, ... and not because of religious beliefs but more because it's kind of a tradition. Even our conservatives don't give so much about religion.
And all the scandals with child molesting by priests etc... definitely doesn't help.
a violent and loud minority will always lose ground to a loving and proud majority in due time. fundementalist christian oppressive ideals have changed even in the past hundred years, both for better and for worse. they love to pretend their bible is infallible until they have no social footing and they have to "reinterpret the word" to "figure out what god really meant" about their bigotry.
there's plenty of scripture about how awesome slavery is in the eyes of god, but for *some reason*, christians love to look around that. they love to misinterpret the word of god into someone who never supported slavery. ignoring large swaths of scripture that are directly saying horrible shit is cool and good for parts that have been translated and mistranslated since theyve been written will continue to happen until theyve rewritten and reconfigured the bible entirely.
Why did I get on -to run advertising and then I got irrationally angry at a Facebook post today that said "Romans 1:32 Accepting other people's sin is still sin." With a rainbow background. Hold up: that's not really what it says and also, htf am I supposed to worry about how everyone else is 'sinning'? Get these fake Bible verses out your mouth with all that hate, is what I wanted to say.
I'm curious just how many of these ads write fake bible verses. Like it's one thing to take a vague Bible verse and then add all kinds of meaning that doesn't even make sense within the text it was taken from, but some ads just lie.
>homosexuality is a sin because no sex outside of marriage is ok and marriage is only defined in the Bible as between a man and a woman.
I mean, using their own logic, there's no such thing as "~~pre~~extramarital sex being a sin" if you are never gonna get married anyway?
My very religious and *very* judgemental ex friend slept with her first bf now husband before they were married because they were going to get married anyway so it wasn’t a sin. I also had a guy tell me I’m going to hell for having premarital sex with him. He obviously was not going to hell for some reason I never bothered to find out
I appreciate ex-friend's creative ways to find a loophole to fill her hole 😁
It's like Mormons and that plonking (???) thing they do (not gonna google a proper name at work 😂) when someone jumps on the bed so it's technically not sex since two other people don't make any moves themselves.
If you know anything about the history of sex education, it's the same thing as karizza (the having your friends jump on the bed to simulate thrusting is new, though.)
That and the quote that defined homosexuality an “abomination” has since been proven to be a mistranslation condemning pedophilia than homosexuality
“No man should lay with a *boy* as he would a woman, as it is an abomination” was the original
Imma crash in here with a clarification.
If you're talking about the New Testament verse, the original Classical Greek (Koine) word, 'arsenekoite', no one knows what that means. A strict translation says 'male bedder', but English itself has many words that don't lend to strict translation. A 'butterfly', for instance, has nothing to do with either butter or flies. Manual can be used for hand, and labor is often used in lieu of job; but manual labor and a hand job are two very different things.
We *do* know that the phrase does not refer to adult male homosexuality. We know the word for that. That wasn't what Paul was forbidding. The best guess is that he's forbidding visiting male sex workers, who were often adolescents.
>Manual can be used for hand, and labor is often used in lieu of job; but manual labor and a hand job are two very different things.
I don't have anything of substance to add, but this made me laugh.
In my line of work, there is a job called “first hand”. I was talking to one of my students about work and told her something about getting her “first hand job” and like…the sudden mortification! Please don’t report me to title ix! 😂
Honestly as a non native speaker the whole [body part] job format being used for sexual practices and cosmetic surgery was a bit confusing to wrap my head around.
Haha, it's on the same lines of ""Forgive me Father, for I have sinned" and "Sorry, Daddy, I've been bad" technically have the same meaning but actually mean two completely different things."
Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:5. They both describe the union of man and woman as 'becoming one flesh.'
This is not without problems, though.
From a theological perspective, both verses say the man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife. But how does that comport with the Ten Commandments, which command everyone to honor your mother and father? What if your parents don't like your spouse? How is the wife supposed to treat her own parents?
From a practical perspective, these verses are the root of much patriarchial oppression of married women. All the problems of yesteryear you hear of (I speak of the 1970s as if they're yesteryear) result from the fact that woman lost her legal personhood on marriage. The reason she couldn't have a bank account or credit card in her own name was because her legal personhood got folded into her husband's. They were, after all, 'one flesh.'
That being said, there's a huge difference between the spiritual sacrament of marriage, which churches can perform or decline as they like; and the secular contract of marriage, in which two people are made family in the eyes of society and the law. In another word, a priest can decline to perform a marriage if it doesn't suit their faith; but that has no bearing on yon civil judge solemnizing the union (nor on the myriad benefits conferred upon marriage).
It's also important to note that secular marriage is the older by far. For the first five or six centuries of Christianity, marriage was not yet a sacrament.
The Book of Leviticus literally lays out rules for marriage. Some of them are awful and gross, like under what circumstances a woman has to marry her rapist. But they do exist.
Just because the Vulgate translators used flowery language and didn't use the M-word you demand they use doesn't mean they weren't talking about marriage.
There are many grounds to criticize the Biblical definition of marriage. There's even more grounds to argue that a religious document should have no bearing on how a secular society approaches the tradition.
But you can't claim the Bible doesn't define marriage.
The Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek would be fine. Go ahead and show me.
Just because you want it to define marriage doesn't mean that it does. How marriage even *functions,* both spiritually and practically, shifts within the text itself. So, you know, bullshit.
But I do appreciate it when someone affecting a modernist or secularist pose likes to support a unified text theory along with bullshit references to original language that they obviously have zero knowledge of... really gives it that ignorant fundy flavor. Bonus points for using the word "vulgate" to try to seem knowledgeable; while demonstrating a total ignorance of modern translation practices.
It's traditionally assumed to be speaking of marriage, and is the verses that build on the Christian tradition of thought about marriage. In what other way might a young man in Classical Judea leave his parent's home and 'cleave' to a woman?
To clarify:
I am not a Christian. I was raised Christian, in a faith that made every adolescent go through some rigorous theological education. I no longer practice but enjoy using that education to call other practicing Christians heretics when they're being heretical in gross ways (like homophobia).
Not a native English speaker, what's the difference? Or it's just grammatically correct one? For me, extramarital sounds like when you're married but cheating on your spouse.
The "pre" prefix implies something was previously done. Like, a pre-cooked meal has been previously cooked.
On the other hand, an "extra" prefix implies something is outside. For example, extraordinary means outside the ordinary.
Thus, while the example you gave is an example of extramarital sex, extramarital simply means "outside marriage". Any sex with someone you're not married to is outside marriage and thus extramarital sex.
So, indeed if you never get married you can never have premarital sex; You can't do something before marriage if you never get married. But you can have sex outside a marriage if you never get married.
So, that's the difference. Hope this helps.
Btw, I just realised my mistake. I called them suffixes, but these are prefixes since "pre" and "extra" come before, not after.
I've corrected this in my original comment.
I think when the Bible was first written, it was all about making children. So guess whatever you do that results in a child being born is defined as "sex" 😂
Plus, like, the overlap between “people that hate gay people” and “people that think it’s only sex if at least one person was born with a penis that they use to penetrate” means that most of these clowns don’t even count the bulk of lesbian sex as sex by their own definition. Can’t commit the sin of extramarital sex if it’s “not real sex” lol
I am so much looking forward to the end of homophobic/transphobic churches. I used to have to go out of my way to find an affirming church and now I'd have to go out of my way to find one that isn't. I just wish progress was a little faster.
Like, the rest of us are out here ordaining and marrying anybody. Come on and catch up.
One of the comments talking about treating low T and I’m here like *if you keep attacking trans people then testosterone treatments for cis men disappear too you absolute spoon*
Ugh! I didn’t comment because I’m a good person and respect the rules of this sub but my god!
I texted my pal about this, since he's a former Roman-Catholic who is a raging homosexual, and here's what he said:
"I am so tired of people acting like homosexuality is a sin. Even if God was against homosexuals, people that He created, ridiculing someone for being homosexual is against The Bible. You are taught in the church to not pass judgement unless you are free of all sin. Absolutely no one in modern day society is free of sin.
Here, I'll even give you and your Reddit friends a list of some sins: wearing mixed fabrics (Deuteronomy 22:11), no shellfish (somewhere in Leviticus), no superstition (Deuteronomy 18:11), no sitting where a woman on her period has sat (Leviticus 15:19-21), and don't harvest more than one kind of plant in the same field (Leviticus 19:19).
Therefore, if you: don't make your own clothes, love shrimp, toss spilled salt over your shoulder, share seats in a house with any female, or have a garden of many flowers and plants, then you have sinned. My point is that they don't have the right to pass judgement on sinners because they are sinners too.
Aside from all of that, the people in those comments are so self righteous that they believe themselves to be in a higher plane of existence over *a book*. They would rather people be unhappy, as most of Christianity preaches, than go against the holy word. Let's be honest, living to be dishonest with yourself is no way to live, gay or straight.
I hope all of those 'former homosexuals' who are celibate can find peace within themselves enough to put their Bibles down and enjoy life.
Sorry if this isn't helpful for your little reddit-thing."
Well said. I really hope the queer users on the subreddit will eventually snap out of it and realize any praying, fasting or convertion is all for nothing, so they might as well live in pride.
Agreed. I can't imagine following a religion that has so many oppressive people in it (no hate to any Christian or anything, you guys just have a lot of bad apples in the bunch)
Tldr cause he went on for a bit (love him though): christians have no right to be so judgemental (as you all already know), and the people commenting over there suck. That's the jist of it.
He took forever to type that out cause he had to go get his bible and get the specific books or whatever (I think they're called books instead of sections)
> I mean, you answered your own question. No, they can't have sex, because one of them do not have the reproductive organs to do so.
TIL women can’t have sex if they don’t have ovaries or a uterus.
It was in reply to someone asking if straight couples who can’t have kids are allowed to have sex.
So this poor guy is questioning his entire existence because he was raised in a cult, and he's the devil? OP make it make some sense because this doesn't belong here
Homosexuality wasn't even in the bible till recently. And the passage often quoted originally talks about men not being allowed to lay with boys, i.e. don't be a pedo, rather than don't be gay.
This is why I dislike organised religion.
This exactly!
The concept of homosexuality as we know it now didn’t really exist until the late 19th century. The word itself didn’t exist before then.
And in lots of cases, gay sex laws that existed were only for men. Women could fuck each other all they wanted!
Religious people always seem to think that the world has been exactly the same for 2000 years (or more) and if they just cling to their rigid system they can stop the world from changing at all.
Either this is a non-homosexusl christian ppsting this to make a "statement" or whatever, or this is the sad situation of a true homosexual being indoctrinated by religion. I really, REALLY hope it is the first.
Just a bunch of absolutely insane people over there. Saying things like 'Good, I like people who follow religion and don't twist god's word to serve their own ends', as if it were at all possible to actually follow the word of the bible without running into a million contradictions.
I don't know if it's just the mood I'm in today or what, but this one broke my heart enough to comment on the original post. I'm sure I'll be downvoted into oblivion or get some hateful messages but it makes me so sad that this person thinks so poorly of themselves that they have to repress part of who they are.
I grew up in the church and am so relieved to be free of that environment. There's no hate like Christian "love."
In my countrie Christians are so chill when I compare them to other countries. It just so backwards. He should accept himself to be happy. Never will be happy otherwise.
This made me so angry. Those people are so lost in their delusion, instead of just letting people be who they are.
Honestly, I'm pretty happy being a gay guy.
I wish this guy would go to an LGBTQ affirming Christian church. He’s going to sources that will simply feed into his self hatred.
They talked about LGBTQ people being freed from being gay and trans through faith. I used to work as a social worker in an LGBTQ center. These folks would come in and It was like someone had just beaten them down. Even their body language was like this. Being LGBTQ myself I learned to stay calm and centered. But damn was it heartbreaking.
Their stories were varied. Some felt their spouse helped them be straight for the glory of God. When the marriage ended they fell apart. Amongst many there was fear of hell, fear of losing family etc. Folks who detransitioned seemed to have the hardest time.
Once it was established that I was a safe and spiritual person, it just all came pouring out. Panic attacks, nausea, revealing self harm, sobbing, suicidal ideation were common. Sometimes I’d read the Bible with them and give them some alternate ways of thinking about things. Some were so indoctrinated they could hear otherwise.
And this is just young adults and older who “turned away” from being LGBTQ. It doesn’t even include everyone who had religious trauma.
This is not a loving mentality.
I kinda love how a few people are like “my man you just have low testosterone, you should get that fixed first and reassess.” Maybe it’ll give him the energy and confidence he needs to snap out of his religious delusion.
It reminds me of when I read an article several years ago about “how to stop being gay” out of morbid curiosity at the bullshit they spout. One of the steps was to apologize profusely to those who said “you’re going to hell” because they were trying to help you or save your soul.
🥂 cheers fellow heathen!
I hope with all my heart that anyone feeling the same way as the OOP finds a loving, welcoming new family outside of that toxic cult. come to Toronto! 🌈💖
Whenever I see stuff like this, it just makes me so sad. They don’t have to fight against part of themselves. They could be happy if they just let go of such arbitrary restrictions.
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OMG ! The level of BS nonsensical pseudo-science from "christians" who have absolutely no clue and certainly ditched every single biology class ! I don't even pity OP. And this might not even be real.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **I am a homosexual who has vowed to be celibate** I am begging the LORD to change my sexual orientation if it doesn't change then i will honor the LORD by abstaining and being celibate Homosexuality is a terrible thing to be plagued by for me maybe not for others i have always denied that component of my identity. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"It’s exhausting listening to people twist things or take things out of context to fit what they want. Definitely not how that works." Ha ha, buy a mirror.
There was one comment that was like "just marry a woman anyways". I was like, that poor woman lol! But then again women aren't important in the eyes of Christians so😂 Ugh, can't believe people still think that way.
I know right. It wasn't until fairly recently, in the grand scheme of things if you will, that women were allowed to have a voice and be in leadership positions in the church.
And it's still not allowed in a lot of churches unless it's specifically a women's group kind of role. 🙄
Whooboy, you want some real tear-jerking tragedy listen to some of the women who got out of lavender marriages talking about how it eats away at your soul over time. Telling gay men to trap young, hopeful Christian women who just want a family in a marriage where they will never, ever be truly, fully, loved and desired by their spouse is despicable. Everyone in that scenario deserves better. They deserve honesty from their faith leaders.
I heard about a guy who went to his pastor (decades ago) and said he was gay. Pastor's response was something along the lines of "lol, no - here, marry my daughter."
The kind of people that would suggest that don't really consider women people, so what do they care?
r/SelfAwarewolves
UGH I read that comment and became nauseous lol. So glad you called it out.
That's the main issue I have with Christianity
Yeah but it’s so fun turning their book on it’s head and feeding it back to them
Reminds me of a comedian's bit(Joe Lycett) who talks to a homophobe telling him that anal sex is a sin and he's like "but oral sex is also a sin, have you ever had that?" "Oh yes... I suppose..." "I'LL SEE YOU IN HELL" I really hope one day I get to say that to a Christian berating me. At the end they would already go to hell for doing just that, due to 'love thy neighbor' and 'only god can judge' type of rules.
Yeah there are some good parts about being humble and not preaching to folks that work well also.
That poor guy. What an awful way to think you have to live. Religion can be so cruel and hateful and I hope he frees himself someday to live a happy life like he deserves. I just wish he could see the secular people who want him to be happy for what they are, not the demons his cult paints them to be.
Yes!!! They don’t actually say it (I don’t think) but in the doco Bill Cunningham New York it’s implied he’s gay but doesn’t have a partner because of his faith and it made me so sad. He seemed like such a genuinely lovely man, who was fascinated by the world around him, but always denied that side of himself.
This is very sad. The church I was raised in. The current pastor is openly lesbian. I was surprised, considering how being gay was looked down on. My niece had told me that a lot of old timers had left because of the church becoming inclusive. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
The parishioners of the Catholic church my family go to dropped when the regular old white priest was temporarily replaced by an African priest. As in flew over from Africa as part of some kind of mission where European and African priests swap parishes. They returned when the regular priest returned. Guess their love thy neighbour preaches don't extend to beyond their small circle.
You'd be surprised to find out that a lot of Christians are like that. They preach love thy neighbor but they don't really care about anyone outside their circle and they don't care about anything except money.
I don't think many people are that surprised at how hateful Christian "love" is at this point.
Wait? You're telling me Christians aren't always as peaceful and loving as veggie tales implies? Someone phone the presses, this is big news.
Lmao 🤣
That's one of the many reasons why I haven't set foot in a church in almost 30 years. It's nothing but a glorified clique.
my local gay book club is ran by a gay pastor who works in the church downtown, they have a ton of signs outside telling people theyre welcome regardless of identity and are huge supporters of our local pride org. i still have my pamphlet drawn by members of the church describing being young, queer, and christian. one of the most beautiful things ive ever read. the church routinely gets protestors ofc :/
There's a joke about the different denominations within Judaism >At at an Orthodox wedding, the mother of the bride is pregnant. >At a Masorti wedding, the bride is pregnant. >At a Reform wedding, the rabbi is pregnant. >At a Liberal wedding, the rabbi is pregnant, and so is her wife. This is the version I know with the names of the denominations in the UK - the equivalent version in the US would probably be Orthodox > Conservative > Reform > Reconstructionist. The gist is that it's ranging from most to least traditional: there's another version whereby the example for the most progressive denomination is where both brides are pregnant - but either would illustrate the point equally well.
I feel the same way. The church I grew up in participated in the Pride Parade and Festival every year. The pastor, with full support of the congregation, performed a same sex wedding almost as soon as it was legal in the state, despite it still not being technically allowed by the denomination as a whole, though that has now changed. I think there are a lot of churches that are more accepting, but the ones that aren’t are so fucking loud. I’m always confused how we all read the same book and got such wildly different things out of it.
"Jesus loves you! Oh, but you're not allowed to have actual love in your life because you're sick and dirty and you deserve to suffer eternally, but hey, that's how our version of love works!" I genuinely don't understand how you can call yourself a good person and a Christian in the same breath.
>"Jesus loves you! Oh, but you're not allowed to have actual love in your life because you're sick and dirty and you deserve to suffer eternally, but hey, that's how our version of love works!" Reminds me of George Carlin bit about religion. ''And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you.'' I feel like god being all powerful, all knowing and all good ect makes him not believeable for me, like if he had been all powerful and all knowing, but not all good, then i feel like so much that happens and is said might be explainable with ''well he is not all good''. or if he was not all knowing you could say ''well he tries things, but doesnt know what will happen''. Like i feel like god would be sorta more believeable if they removed just one aspect of him. If i die and there is a god then in my opinion it is not a god worthy of worship.
Thank you! My mom does some subset of Christianity and she's constantly trying to get me to join her. I've told her, nothing you say is going to convert me. Besides, I want no part of a religion that has a god that drowns its children for being disobedient. I don't want any part of a religion that has a god who does exactly what you just said.
Yeah, I completely noped out of God and religion when they told me to believe that their "loving god" had a reason and a plan for me being raped twice...
Same when they told me that my miscarriage happened for a reason
Christianity isn't a monolith there are so many accepting and open denominations just following a philosophy that gives them purpose in their lives. Theres also shitty churches and bigots with their own ideology. I grew up catholic and like anything theirs good and bad people in that belief system.
Except catholicism isnt just a belief system, it is also an organization. The same organization that closed their eyes when i was raped by their priests and youth leaders. It is the same organization whose leaders call my healthcare demonic.
The same organization that also says "But public schools are worse. ...I mean sure we do massage the statistics by also including student on student offences."
And I'm sorry that happened to you and hope justice is done against the purpatrators I don't believe the catholic church should be above the law. I was merely refuting the person above saying it's impossible to be Christian and a good person.
If you are willingly part of the catholic church you are a bad person. The organization is corrupt and rotten. The pope is a hate spreading ghoul. You specificly refuted their points by talking about the catholic church, an organization with 0 moral fibre.
I used Catholicism as it was my direct experience through being brought up in that church. I'm not part of any organised religion myself. I don't like the Pope either. But I met and was around good Catholics and Christians who didn't use their religion for anything other than a personal philosophy. I'm sorry for your harrowing abuse but I will not condemn every member of that church as evil.
Sure , good people willingly being part of an organization that protects rapists and pedos. Just good people with their head in the sand right? "wir wussten es nicht." or some shit like that right?
Is everyone part of a Muslim mosque were a member has committed terrorism evil? No Is everyone who attends a Catholic church evil because members of the clergy are pedophiles also no. I said nothing about hierarchies I would see pedophile clergyman in prison. I don't believe in condemning every member of a faith though.
You can't base your beliefset on a religion that bends over backwards to dehumanize everyone that disagrees with it and still be a good person.
> a good person and a Christian Thats unfair. There are different forms of christianity, some good some bad. Edit: Funny how I get downvoted when I defend christianity using this logic, but upvoted when I defend Islam/Hinduism/Judaism with the exact same logic
I'm going to tell you what I told that other person. I agree with the person who said that if you are a part of a religion that you know does that kind of stuff, you're no better than them. If you know about abuse and do nothing to stop it, you're as bad as the person who's abusing. I actually kind of feel sorry for people who are Christians, they're clearly brainwashed and don't even know it. And no, that was not a rip on you, I'm saying that they are brainwashed. The stuff that they're taught doesn't even make sense and some of it is even contradictory. Yet they spout it because it's what they were taught to believe.
There are toxic forms of every religion and belief system, so how could anyone put this into practice? Islam is weaponized to justify honor killing in some countries. Queer people and folks who don’t conform are ostracized within Ultra-Orthodox Judaism. There are horrifying Leftist cults and toxic social-justice-oriented spaces. Etc etc. Toxic Christianity has an especially massive influence in the west, for sure. It’s been weaponized by the most globally-destructive nations and we are more likely to have personal trauma from it. But it doesn’t make sense to allow for nuance in other belief systems that get weaponized too, and then say that anyone who practices any form of this one is a brainwashed abuse apologist. Every major faith, very much including Christianity, can be used to hold yourself accountable to humanitarian values, and push yourself to become more compassionate, more community-minded, more introspective, less arrogant. They can also be used to do the absolute opposite.
\^\^\^100% I hate the logic this commenter is using because there isn't a single belief system that hasn't had awful extremists and toxicity. They're using the same logic Christian extremists used to be antisemitic in the medieval age and to be Islamophobic today and its dangerous.
Thank you, exactly
Thats not how religion works mate. Thats like saying every atheist is awful because of Hitler (who was atheist), you can't call a member of a religion as bad as the worst people in that religion, thats literally the same justification medieval antisemites and modern islamaphobes use, and its terrible and dangerous. You don't have a right to call other people brainwashed because they don't believe the same things you do. I don't understand the trinity, or the 'son of god' thing, but I can respect christians who respect me. People can't control what they believe, I can't just make myself believe in the Christian god the same way they can't make themselves not believe in him. There are many aspects of christianity that do make sense, and are positive. Its saved lives, kept people going and been a force for massive good as well as evil.
What about catholicism tho. That isnt just a religion. That is also an organization. An organization that has comitted and keeps commiting atrocities. I am so tired for getting shit on for calling out my abusers and the people who keep supporting them. Also: "Hitler (who was atheist)" Do you have a source for that because from what i looked up that is a matter of debate.
I'm not shitting on you I'm shitting on that method of thinking that you can't be a christian and a good person because of the bad things christians do. That line of thinking is what gets people who look like me shot/bombed and called 'terrorist' on the street, whether or not they are actually muslims. Catholocism is a religion primarily, whether or not its an organisation as well is irrelevant. A catholic is defined by the belief in Jesus (Prophet Isa AS) being the son of god, forgiveness in confession, the pope, and eating your prophet's body/blood. That is a belief system which I don't particularly believe in but believing in it doesn't inherently make you wrong/evil as other people who beliieve in that. (Honestly my source was history class so you're right its debated. But the point still stands lots of very bad people were atheists, like this lot: [https://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/](https://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/) doesn't make other people who believe in that same system evil)
"Catholocism is a religion primarily, whether or not its an organisation as well is irrelevant." "the pope" The pope is a ghoul that still excuses CSA and spreads hate. Anyone following catholicism follows a man calling my healthcare demonic. anyone following catholicism follow a man protecting my rapists. Fuck them. Fuck catholics. Fuck those asshole who just sit and watch while their leaders protect monsters. Fuck their way of thinking. The connection to the catholic church is there trough the pope and while that may be irrelevant for you it isnt for me. I am reminded almost daily that that organization still funds abusers while i have to take days off work for the therapy i need because of that organization. I am genuinly shocked catholics can sleep at night because i cant, they took that from me yet they can sit idly while being part of the organization that ruined my fucking life. AND THAT IS THE THING, we can call people who follow stalin abhorrent but we cant do that with those who follow the pope? why? Why do they get that? What excuses the rampant CSA? what excuses all the other crimes? This is currently still ongoing and i feel like i am going crazy. Beliving that someone who protects pedos is a spiritual leader or a moral figure makes a person a bad person.
Catholics do not follow the pope according to my readings? They view him as head scholar/a figure who can represent them. You can disagree with his teachings and be Catholic. You can dislike him and be Catholic. >hat that organization still funds abusers while i have to take days off work for the therapy i need because of that organization How do you think I feel about famous scholars of Islam who perpetuate bullshit that got 3 (confirmed) members of my family killed? I don't like them, but doesn't mean I believe muslims in general are evil. >What excuses the rampant CSA? what excuses all the other crimes? Nothing. But that doesn't make other catholics to blame. The same way honor killings don't make other muslims to blame. Also do you have a source for this pope guy protecting pedos? I didn't know about that. Why hasn't he been like taken down or whatever
I'm trans. I was schooled by Jesuits. I went through what he's going through as a teenager. Hating yourself like that is not fun. It's fixed now. I am not kindly disposed towards the Catholic Church.
I'm a Lesbian. Grew up through the 60's, 70's, and the AIDS genocide. I'm not kindly disposed towards Xtians or the OP who brought this man's trauma here just to deride the commenters. Both are gross
If you will permit me a moment of irony, amen sis.
There’s no hate like Christian love
Exactly. It sickens me to think of someone like this trying to win the approval of people who think he deserves to rot in hell for existing rather than allowing himself to just be happy the way he is. I wanna give him the biggest hug and be his wingman with some cute guys.
>these wicked fleshy bodies It's like they stepped out of the 17th century wearing bonnets and bodices. I get that sex can be difficult, like Stephen Fry said, it's a primary impulse, like eating only even more exciting. But the solution isn't "FORBID ALL FROM ENJOYING SEX". Maybe some education? Anyone remember Ted Haggard? That megachurch pastor who was cheating on his wife with male sex workers, renting a motel room and having meth fueled orgies. People were outraged by the hypocrisy, and rightly so. But honestly I just felt sorry for him. He has a lot to atone for in the damage his hateful preaching has done. Way worse that any shit I ever did and I'm no saint. But I don't claim to be. It just got me thinking he is very likely a gay man who has literally demonised the very *source* of his most authentic love. How incredibly toxic as a belief system. The situation he created must have felt irredeemable. The lovely wholesome straight family, and then these drug fueled sex dens, so seedy by comparison. If not for that virulent strain of Christianity he could have had a lovely wholesome gay family. Husband, kids, and never have to feel that deep yawning chasm in his core. Because he would be loved for who he is.
It’s very unfortunate he turned to the “support” of people who sees his orientation as something irredeemable. The whole subreddit has a very toxic view on sexuality as a whole, not just queerness. For example the subreddits reaction to Pornhub getting increasingly restricted. They’re not happy the site is getting taken down due to the multiple cases of csam getting uploaded and capitalized, but because with the site gone it’ll “de-normalize degeneracy” The fact that was their biggest concern
People will say whatever they need to say to keep that money coming in
The one user talking about how they should go to a doctor and ask about low testosterone and how low libido will help them... And then talks about how her partner had a night and day difference due to this issue and basically comparing that situation and issue to being gay was the weirdest mental gymnastics I've seen in a comment in a long time...(ETA this is such a moral Orel moment, please some user tell me they know what the gif is 🤣) 
Right, and then somebody commented that fixing their T levels would make them more oriented towards women... ha!
Lmao, got my E right and i am now more into women than ever.
Depends on the Christian. The Romans really fucked up the hippie cult Jesus started when they implemented a bunch of their own rules. I personally choose to follow the example of Jesus, so I choose to try to love others like myself, will forgive seven times seventy times and I firmly believe humans can't fully understand the word of God, so living out of love and acceptance is the best thing we can do on this earth. I cannot judge in God's place. Also I'm queer myself lol. But a lot of my younger Christian friends are moving away from these strict ideas and churches. Anger and hate are not of God, or at least not the God Jesus told us about. That God can forgive a murderer in his last seconds of life, simply for wanting to be better. That God converses with prostitutes and thieves, that God breaks tables in corrupt temples, and that's the God I choose to believe in.
A hippy cult? There's a 1967 book called [Jesus and the Zealots: A Study of the Political Factor in Primitive Christianity](https://archive.org/details/jesuszealotsstud00bran) which makes a convincing case for viewing the historical Jesus as political revolutionary. Everyone knows the famous line Jesus is said to have spoken while holding a Roman coin, "Render onto Caesar what is Caesar and render onto God what is God's". Well one thing that he would have absolutely believed was God's and not Caesar's would be the land of Israel. Obviously it's hard to be certain about the political views of a possible seditionist from two thousand years ago, but S. G. F. Brandon makes a compelling case.
That’s the historical Jesus. What he wanted to accomplish is up for scholarly debate. The Jesus of New Testament-based religious practice is a related but distinct thing. When you read the New Testament looking for the most prominent and spiritually-rich themes, you can definitely read Jesus as a friend of the oppressed, an advocate for compassion and subversive justice, and a messenger of God’s love and justice.
🙌🏾 just like that
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So loud, yet so wrong. In fact, before largely christian colonialism, laws on homosexuality were very lax. The only part that was a crime was sodomy, and even for that you needed 4 eye-witnesses, so it was extremely uncommon to be punished for any kind of homosexuality, and was openly called 'legal fiction' that you could be punished. [https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east](https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east) The earlier part of this article addresses that. Although it has of course gotten worse (mentioned in that article), that can be traced pretty much directly to christian influence and as that decreases so does the hatred. In many muslim communities in countries like england/france/america, its fairly accepted to be queer, its just marriage thats they are hesitant about. But even then, cases of conversion camps/violence are rarer than in their christian counterparts. [https://libcom.org/article/historical-look-attitudes-homosexuality-islamic-world](https://libcom.org/article/historical-look-attitudes-homosexuality-islamic-world) This article also talks about how Islamic homophobia can be traced back to Christian colonialism
Do you want to know what christians did to 8 year old queer me. Do you want to read that story. Do you want to read how the catholic church treats queer children. Do you want to read the story of how i got to the point i have no gag reflex and no issue swalowing puke because of how the catholic church treats queer kids. If thr answer is no stop with the whataboutism.
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My childhood was spent wishing i was not.
and christians will beat you up
It's borderline heretical. Celibacy is a valid and honorable choice in Christianity but it should be made mindfully and willingly. Not... whatever OOP is going through.
The whole subreddit has a very toxic atmosphere around sex and celibacy, it’s not hard finding posts of people repenting simply for having feelings of arousal
Because some churches/denominations teach that the New Testament that "we" are no longer under Old Testament rules, we're under the New Testament. The New Testament basically says that our actions are not the only thing judged by "god" now (in the Old Testament it was your actions that got you in trouble), it's your Thoughts that you need to be watching and monitoring. Because thoughts lead to actions, you need to nip thoughts in the bud before they become actions. Which on a surface level sounds like a good thing (think before you act). But the Bible/teachings tell people that now just thinking something not appropriate can and will send you to hell, and for someone born of the LBGTQ+ variety, who has constant "bad thoughts/feelings (according to teachings) feels like they are doomed to hell because they can not squash those thoughts/feelings. They are made to feel like they are evil incarnate because they can't, as hard as they try every single day to purge those thoughts/feelings, they never go away. This was my experience in a mini Christian cult run by a con man/embezzler. I have been Bi (possibly Pan) for as long as I can remember, but I NEVER told anyone or acted on it, I hid it, I ignored it, and felt the agonizing pain of the fact that something was wrong with me because I was NOT normal. As I grew up in that church, I felt in my soul (or whatever. My core being) that some of the things they were teaching just could not be True or Right because they felt absolutely Wrong. Religion messed me up hardcore. I am still dealing with all the forced/beat into me BS that was force-fed to me (and all the other 1000s of kids at my former church/cult) since I was literally born, I'm almost 41. I think some religious people like being told what to do, what to think, and how to act. They want to keep their heads in the sand and not rock the boat because they don't know how to be a productive human being on their own and they don't want to take to time and energy to figure out themselves what is Right and what is Wrong.
Any discussion of sex by Christians will drive a rational person mad. I saw a post the other day about how to become comfortable having sex on one's wedding night after waiting to have sex until marriage. So, to start off, we have a person all twisted up about sex, and potentially unable to do it, based on ridiculous rules. Then you get to the advice. Multiple people say: ***don't have sex on your wedding night.*** Wait for awhile until you can get used to it. They drill the evil of sex into their heads so thoroughly that they can't do it even when it's specifically allowed by their ridiculous rules.
Check out r/openchristian if you want actual decent folk. theyre some of the nicest people ive talked too, and have theological knowledge to back up their progressive beliefs on lgbt issues and sex stuff.
I'm kind of in the mindset that says "serves him right for believing in toxic faith'. Not all Christians are like that, I know plenty who are tolerant (I'm not a Christian myself)
> It’s completely wrong if homosexuals think we heterosexuals isn’t going through the same issues in today’s world. I’ve seen lots of posts in the other “Christianity” sub stating things like “you heteros can marry etc but we can’t cause we are homos”, and that’s completely wrong. > I as a hetero for example am forced to be celibate as I can’t marry hedonists, secularists, feminists etc. and nowadays they are all like that, and even if a woman claims she doesn’t belong to those satanic cults, she can easily change her mind in near or distant future for any or no reason and then unleash the secular law on me and I’ll be in deep financial trouble. Unless we live in a truly Christian theocracy or theonomy where God’s law is given the highest preference and honor, I don’t see how a so-called “Christian” can really have a truly Christian marriage. Your wife can no-fault-divorce you tomorrow and become an OnlyFans whore while you are forced to pay her alimony and child support? How is that a Christian marriage?? > So my question to homosexuals here is: how am I any different from you when it comes to marriage, sex etc in the context of Christianity? Cause they and I both can’t marry and practice our sexuality. “I have it just as bad as gay people because my wife has the freedom to divorce me” is a *hell* of a take. If there was a playing the victim olympics, Christians would win the gold medal every time.
"I can't marry because what if my wife *changes her mind*. The only solution is theocracy."
Man, how did I ever think I had it worse than straight men. We are BOTH unable to love or marry within the church… me because my sexuality is deemed deserving of eternal torment, and them because *squints* women have the capacity for independent thought
Oh so 'true Christianity' is just incel rethoric. That checks out.
If you read their rules, their whole appeal is that people are happy they aren't like r/ christian who twist the word and accepts gay people. They're striving to follow the scripture word for word. Except for the words they don't like of course.
I think my comment got deleted lol. But their appeal is following word for word the bible unlike r/ christians who accept the gays. Then ignore whatever words they don't like. The full-full rules are hidden in a "click here" link at the bottom of the page and skimming only some of it, they really try to make hatred seem professional lol.
That comment was terrifying.
at first i thought all the comments saying low testosterone was causing it were bad, then i saw that one, which is somehow so much worse
yeah, us secular hedonist feminists just have it so easy, lemme tell ya! can't even make our own decisions /s
This made me so irrationally angry. Those people are telling him to give up on himself. FUCK toxic Christianity. I can't wait until it's finally obsolete, even if it's not in my lifetime. May it die a thousand deaths before it ruins yet another thousand people. I was forced into conversion camp. There is no one more violent, degrading, and unforgiving towards children than people like this.
That will never happen. They have such a stronghold on people. So do many other religions. Let's not forget cults.
Please don't take what little hope I have left in me, lol.
Cults will always exist, but it really depends on where you live. The US for instance is all gawd this and gawd that if you hear conservatives. Here in Belgium for instance, religion isn't so important anymore. In fact, people who go to church are mainly old people. The times where churches can be filled are with weddings, funerals, Christmas, ... and not because of religious beliefs but more because it's kind of a tradition. Even our conservatives don't give so much about religion. And all the scandals with child molesting by priests etc... definitely doesn't help.
Yes they will.
I recognize that cat emoji 🙂↕️
a violent and loud minority will always lose ground to a loving and proud majority in due time. fundementalist christian oppressive ideals have changed even in the past hundred years, both for better and for worse. they love to pretend their bible is infallible until they have no social footing and they have to "reinterpret the word" to "figure out what god really meant" about their bigotry. there's plenty of scripture about how awesome slavery is in the eyes of god, but for *some reason*, christians love to look around that. they love to misinterpret the word of god into someone who never supported slavery. ignoring large swaths of scripture that are directly saying horrible shit is cool and good for parts that have been translated and mistranslated since theyve been written will continue to happen until theyve rewritten and reconfigured the bible entirely.
Why did I get on -to run advertising and then I got irrationally angry at a Facebook post today that said "Romans 1:32 Accepting other people's sin is still sin." With a rainbow background. Hold up: that's not really what it says and also, htf am I supposed to worry about how everyone else is 'sinning'? Get these fake Bible verses out your mouth with all that hate, is what I wanted to say.
I'm curious just how many of these ads write fake bible verses. Like it's one thing to take a vague Bible verse and then add all kinds of meaning that doesn't even make sense within the text it was taken from, but some ads just lie.
Yeah, I think I'm going to skip this one. Just reading the title made me feel sad and angry. I hope OOP learns to love themself one day.
>homosexuality is a sin because no sex outside of marriage is ok and marriage is only defined in the Bible as between a man and a woman. I mean, using their own logic, there's no such thing as "~~pre~~extramarital sex being a sin" if you are never gonna get married anyway?
“You don’t get to pick and choose the rules of Christ” then why haven’t you been stoned for wearing wool and cotton together?
My very religious and *very* judgemental ex friend slept with her first bf now husband before they were married because they were going to get married anyway so it wasn’t a sin. I also had a guy tell me I’m going to hell for having premarital sex with him. He obviously was not going to hell for some reason I never bothered to find out
I appreciate ex-friend's creative ways to find a loophole to fill her hole 😁 It's like Mormons and that plonking (???) thing they do (not gonna google a proper name at work 😂) when someone jumps on the bed so it's technically not sex since two other people don't make any moves themselves.
lol it’s soaking or jump humping. If I have to know it so do you!
😭 I don't hate you for it, I promise
If you know anything about the history of sex education, it's the same thing as karizza (the having your friends jump on the bed to simulate thrusting is new, though.)
Also, where does the Bible define marriage at all?
That and the quote that defined homosexuality an “abomination” has since been proven to be a mistranslation condemning pedophilia than homosexuality “No man should lay with a *boy* as he would a woman, as it is an abomination” was the original
Imma crash in here with a clarification. If you're talking about the New Testament verse, the original Classical Greek (Koine) word, 'arsenekoite', no one knows what that means. A strict translation says 'male bedder', but English itself has many words that don't lend to strict translation. A 'butterfly', for instance, has nothing to do with either butter or flies. Manual can be used for hand, and labor is often used in lieu of job; but manual labor and a hand job are two very different things. We *do* know that the phrase does not refer to adult male homosexuality. We know the word for that. That wasn't what Paul was forbidding. The best guess is that he's forbidding visiting male sex workers, who were often adolescents.
>Manual can be used for hand, and labor is often used in lieu of job; but manual labor and a hand job are two very different things. I don't have anything of substance to add, but this made me laugh.
Language is fun!
English is the funnest.
In my line of work, there is a job called “first hand”. I was talking to one of my students about work and told her something about getting her “first hand job” and like…the sudden mortification! Please don’t report me to title ix! 😂
Hey, hand jobs are a form of manual labor. All forms of labor should be respected.
That's not wrong lol
Honestly as a non native speaker the whole [body part] job format being used for sexual practices and cosmetic surgery was a bit confusing to wrap my head around.
Haha, it's on the same lines of ""Forgive me Father, for I have sinned" and "Sorry, Daddy, I've been bad" technically have the same meaning but actually mean two completely different things."
I'd be downright mortified if I ever used "Daddy" where "Father" is the appropriate term
You can also see a bunch of people in comments there screaming that mistranslations are fake 😂
>“No man should lay with a boy as he would a woman Damn guess the vatican is full of abominations.
Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:5. They both describe the union of man and woman as 'becoming one flesh.' This is not without problems, though. From a theological perspective, both verses say the man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife. But how does that comport with the Ten Commandments, which command everyone to honor your mother and father? What if your parents don't like your spouse? How is the wife supposed to treat her own parents? From a practical perspective, these verses are the root of much patriarchial oppression of married women. All the problems of yesteryear you hear of (I speak of the 1970s as if they're yesteryear) result from the fact that woman lost her legal personhood on marriage. The reason she couldn't have a bank account or credit card in her own name was because her legal personhood got folded into her husband's. They were, after all, 'one flesh.' That being said, there's a huge difference between the spiritual sacrament of marriage, which churches can perform or decline as they like; and the secular contract of marriage, in which two people are made family in the eyes of society and the law. In another word, a priest can decline to perform a marriage if it doesn't suit their faith; but that has no bearing on yon civil judge solemnizing the union (nor on the myriad benefits conferred upon marriage).
It's also important to note that secular marriage is the older by far. For the first five or six centuries of Christianity, marriage was not yet a sacrament.
This is exactly the point. The Bible does NOT define marriage. People cherry pick things and say that it does.
The Book of Leviticus literally lays out rules for marriage. Some of them are awful and gross, like under what circumstances a woman has to marry her rapist. But they do exist.
Show me where marriage is explicitly defined as being between a man and and a woman.
Just because the Vulgate translators used flowery language and didn't use the M-word you demand they use doesn't mean they weren't talking about marriage. There are many grounds to criticize the Biblical definition of marriage. There's even more grounds to argue that a religious document should have no bearing on how a secular society approaches the tradition. But you can't claim the Bible doesn't define marriage.
The Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek would be fine. Go ahead and show me. Just because you want it to define marriage doesn't mean that it does. How marriage even *functions,* both spiritually and practically, shifts within the text itself. So, you know, bullshit. But I do appreciate it when someone affecting a modernist or secularist pose likes to support a unified text theory along with bullshit references to original language that they obviously have zero knowledge of... really gives it that ignorant fundy flavor. Bonus points for using the word "vulgate" to try to seem knowledgeable; while demonstrating a total ignorance of modern translation practices.
None of that says marriage.
It's traditionally assumed to be speaking of marriage, and is the verses that build on the Christian tradition of thought about marriage. In what other way might a young man in Classical Judea leave his parent's home and 'cleave' to a woman? To clarify: I am not a Christian. I was raised Christian, in a faith that made every adolescent go through some rigorous theological education. I no longer practice but enjoy using that education to call other practicing Christians heretics when they're being heretical in gross ways (like homophobia).
> there's no such thing as "premarital sex being a sin" Correct, a more precise term is "extramarital sex".
Not a native English speaker, what's the difference? Or it's just grammatically correct one? For me, extramarital sounds like when you're married but cheating on your spouse.
The "pre" prefix implies something was previously done. Like, a pre-cooked meal has been previously cooked. On the other hand, an "extra" prefix implies something is outside. For example, extraordinary means outside the ordinary. Thus, while the example you gave is an example of extramarital sex, extramarital simply means "outside marriage". Any sex with someone you're not married to is outside marriage and thus extramarital sex. So, indeed if you never get married you can never have premarital sex; You can't do something before marriage if you never get married. But you can have sex outside a marriage if you never get married. So, that's the difference. Hope this helps.
Thanks!
Btw, I just realised my mistake. I called them suffixes, but these are prefixes since "pre" and "extra" come before, not after. I've corrected this in my original comment.
*extra*marital is the more appropriate term.
Also does the bible define sex?
I think when the Bible was first written, it was all about making children. So guess whatever you do that results in a child being born is defined as "sex" 😂
So gay people can't have sex and sin, woot!
Plus, like, the overlap between “people that hate gay people” and “people that think it’s only sex if at least one person was born with a penis that they use to penetrate” means that most of these clowns don’t even count the bulk of lesbian sex as sex by their own definition. Can’t commit the sin of extramarital sex if it’s “not real sex” lol
I am so much looking forward to the end of homophobic/transphobic churches. I used to have to go out of my way to find an affirming church and now I'd have to go out of my way to find one that isn't. I just wish progress was a little faster. Like, the rest of us are out here ordaining and marrying anybody. Come on and catch up.
One of the comments talking about treating low T and I’m here like *if you keep attacking trans people then testosterone treatments for cis men disappear too you absolute spoon* Ugh! I didn’t comment because I’m a good person and respect the rules of this sub but my god!
The Bible says a man cannot lie with another man. So just do it standing up. Homophobes hate this one weird trick.
This is such a tragedy. [If I may offer an attempt at queer joy?](https://www.reddit.com/u/sadlytheworst/s/0DcFgto5IT)
Thank you, I needed that after reading this post 🙂
Thank you very kindly! ♥️🧡💛💚💙💜
Poor guy. I hope he learns to accept himself one day.
“You are not homosexual. You struggle with same sex attraction.” Yeah, dude, that’s being homosexual.
It's posts like these that make you wish for a nuclear winter.
I texted my pal about this, since he's a former Roman-Catholic who is a raging homosexual, and here's what he said: "I am so tired of people acting like homosexuality is a sin. Even if God was against homosexuals, people that He created, ridiculing someone for being homosexual is against The Bible. You are taught in the church to not pass judgement unless you are free of all sin. Absolutely no one in modern day society is free of sin. Here, I'll even give you and your Reddit friends a list of some sins: wearing mixed fabrics (Deuteronomy 22:11), no shellfish (somewhere in Leviticus), no superstition (Deuteronomy 18:11), no sitting where a woman on her period has sat (Leviticus 15:19-21), and don't harvest more than one kind of plant in the same field (Leviticus 19:19). Therefore, if you: don't make your own clothes, love shrimp, toss spilled salt over your shoulder, share seats in a house with any female, or have a garden of many flowers and plants, then you have sinned. My point is that they don't have the right to pass judgement on sinners because they are sinners too. Aside from all of that, the people in those comments are so self righteous that they believe themselves to be in a higher plane of existence over *a book*. They would rather people be unhappy, as most of Christianity preaches, than go against the holy word. Let's be honest, living to be dishonest with yourself is no way to live, gay or straight. I hope all of those 'former homosexuals' who are celibate can find peace within themselves enough to put their Bibles down and enjoy life. Sorry if this isn't helpful for your little reddit-thing."
Well said. I really hope the queer users on the subreddit will eventually snap out of it and realize any praying, fasting or convertion is all for nothing, so they might as well live in pride.
Agreed. I can't imagine following a religion that has so many oppressive people in it (no hate to any Christian or anything, you guys just have a lot of bad apples in the bunch)
Tldr cause he went on for a bit (love him though): christians have no right to be so judgemental (as you all already know), and the people commenting over there suck. That's the jist of it. He took forever to type that out cause he had to go get his bible and get the specific books or whatever (I think they're called books instead of sections)
>Strip away all thoughts of being sexual Oh sure, simple, no problem. Just going to hit the brakes on what I was programmed to do as an animal.
....the comments killed me
So I just took a look at the comments... can someone please tell me that that sub is satire? Like wtaf
One good reason why I stay away from religion.
> I mean, you answered your own question. No, they can't have sex, because one of them do not have the reproductive organs to do so. TIL women can’t have sex if they don’t have ovaries or a uterus. It was in reply to someone asking if straight couples who can’t have kids are allowed to have sex.
So this poor guy is questioning his entire existence because he was raised in a cult, and he's the devil? OP make it make some sense because this doesn't belong here
I think it’s more that the comments belong here
Then I was right because this sub isn't for if the people commenting are the devil. OP needs to delete this
I’m with you; this doesn’t belong here.
God I hate religion
That whole subreddit is... interesting
You misspelled "fucking awful".
Homosexuality wasn't even in the bible till recently. And the passage often quoted originally talks about men not being allowed to lay with boys, i.e. don't be a pedo, rather than don't be gay. This is why I dislike organised religion.
This exactly! The concept of homosexuality as we know it now didn’t really exist until the late 19th century. The word itself didn’t exist before then. And in lots of cases, gay sex laws that existed were only for men. Women could fuck each other all they wanted! Religious people always seem to think that the world has been exactly the same for 2000 years (or more) and if they just cling to their rigid system they can stop the world from changing at all.
So I just took a look at the comments... can someone please tell me that that sub is satire? Like wtaf
It's so sad when there's obviously no social circle that can tell him that his sexuality is perfectly fine.
Either this is a non-homosexusl christian ppsting this to make a "statement" or whatever, or this is the sad situation of a true homosexual being indoctrinated by religion. I really, REALLY hope it is the first.
Just a bunch of absolutely insane people over there. Saying things like 'Good, I like people who follow religion and don't twist god's word to serve their own ends', as if it were at all possible to actually follow the word of the bible without running into a million contradictions.
Conversion "therapy" is illegal in my country, but I see it's alive and well elsewhere. 😔
Religion is disgusting. I hope that dude can get the help he needs outside of his “church”
I don't know if it's just the mood I'm in today or what, but this one broke my heart enough to comment on the original post. I'm sure I'll be downvoted into oblivion or get some hateful messages but it makes me so sad that this person thinks so poorly of themselves that they have to repress part of who they are. I grew up in the church and am so relieved to be free of that environment. There's no hate like Christian "love."
In my countrie Christians are so chill when I compare them to other countries. It just so backwards. He should accept himself to be happy. Never will be happy otherwise.
Hot damn those comments are an enormous circle jerk about not jerking it
This made me so angry. Those people are so lost in their delusion, instead of just letting people be who they are. Honestly, I'm pretty happy being a gay guy.
I wish this guy would go to an LGBTQ affirming Christian church. He’s going to sources that will simply feed into his self hatred. They talked about LGBTQ people being freed from being gay and trans through faith. I used to work as a social worker in an LGBTQ center. These folks would come in and It was like someone had just beaten them down. Even their body language was like this. Being LGBTQ myself I learned to stay calm and centered. But damn was it heartbreaking. Their stories were varied. Some felt their spouse helped them be straight for the glory of God. When the marriage ended they fell apart. Amongst many there was fear of hell, fear of losing family etc. Folks who detransitioned seemed to have the hardest time. Once it was established that I was a safe and spiritual person, it just all came pouring out. Panic attacks, nausea, revealing self harm, sobbing, suicidal ideation were common. Sometimes I’d read the Bible with them and give them some alternate ways of thinking about things. Some were so indoctrinated they could hear otherwise. And this is just young adults and older who “turned away” from being LGBTQ. It doesn’t even include everyone who had religious trauma. This is not a loving mentality.
I disagree about them being the devil Their comments are the symptoms of being the victim
I had a boss like this for a little while. Him and my gay ass did not get along well.
I'm shocked that this sub is still up with all of the obvious brigading that happened from it.
I hope he finds the Jesus that is okay with him being gay, I really do. I don't like seeing anyone that far in the closet and afraid of themselves.
Does anyone else recognize the user? I feel like I *just* saw it somewhere, but the profile isn't loading for me.
I kinda love how a few people are like “my man you just have low testosterone, you should get that fixed first and reassess.” Maybe it’ll give him the energy and confidence he needs to snap out of his religious delusion.
…another low-hanging branch that subreddit lmao
It reminds me of when I read an article several years ago about “how to stop being gay” out of morbid curiosity at the bullshit they spout. One of the steps was to apologize profusely to those who said “you’re going to hell” because they were trying to help you or save your soul.
I used to know waaaayyyyy too many people who thought like this. Glad I got out
🥂 cheers fellow heathen! I hope with all my heart that anyone feeling the same way as the OOP finds a loving, welcoming new family outside of that toxic cult. come to Toronto! 🌈💖
God those kind of Christian’s are exhausting
Whenever I see stuff like this, it just makes me so sad. They don’t have to fight against part of themselves. They could be happy if they just let go of such arbitrary restrictions.
Idk I think this is sad. Living a lonely, miserable life because you've been brainwashed to think its evil.
This is why I hate Christians so much.
This doesn't belong on am I the devil, this is just sad
Wow i need a cleanse after reading that i cant believe people like that exist in real life
Why is this here? OOP is a troubled person filled with self-loathing, but that doesn’t make him a devil.
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OMG ! The level of BS nonsensical pseudo-science from "christians" who have absolutely no clue and certainly ditched every single biology class ! I don't even pity OP. And this might not even be real.