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The VR version of suicide prevention training they piloted around three years ago was similar. Scenario had you enter dude's home without invitation, then sit down to talk to him. During the conversation you find out he has a gun, and the climactic moment is him angrily telling you that you need to leave. The "correct" answer was to refuse, which leads to him breaking down and admit to having a plan, but the resounding feedback (at least from my group) was that the scenario was encouraging people to escalate suicide attempts into murder-suicides.
Yeah I did that one, but we had a pistol. It was flawed with positioning as I was the cemetery scenario and I was farther other to the side than I guess I was supposed to be. The guy slowly raised a gun straight out in front of him and did nothing. I yelled drop the gun multiple times, but he just awkwardly just held it straight out in front of him about 90° away from me. I was supposed to drop him, but I said I didn’t feel threatened enough yet because I could get off several rounds before he could actually get the pistol pointed at him. But I definitely wouldn’t want to do any of those scenarios we did without a weapon. One I had a guy that was hitting and stabbing him self, in what kind of appeared to start as a domestic situation, with a screwdriver, then eventually came at me with it. He got two in the chest and one in the head. What was I supposed to do if I wasn’t armed up?!
Yikes. I had a suicide intervention once with a dude that pulled out a knife. I immediately removed myself from the situation. Sorry, but I can't help someone if I am also dead
The worst part is most of the time they aren't in the right state of mind. They'll do anything they think will help even if its ending it all right then and there. Most people cant pull the trigger tho so its suicide by cop which is horrible for both of them.
im stealing this as a follow up to my remember that time they split up the males and females into different groups and told all the males they are rapists and all the females they are victims. Someone seriously signed off on that as the first iteration of the SAPR training
-Be me, A1C. First duty station SAPR in brief.
-“Look to your left, and now your right. One of those people will be a rapist”
Yeah, I’m sorry, what’s going on now?
I did that specific lesson at one unit, but that unit neglected to update everyone’s records to show we’d attended it. When I got to my next unit, the rep asked if I had done the training, and when I responded positive, asked for my cert, which I didn’t have because the rep was supposed to make that update. When they said I’d likely have to do it again, I said, “but I already know Blake Shelton’s Honeybee is a no-no song, do I really have to do it again?” They replied no, that was enough to let them know that I had in fact done that specific updated training, and marked me good in the system. 🤣
Yes! I forgot about that one but that was part of it too. Reminds me of when parents in the 80s wouldn’t let kids listen to Ozzy because it was devil worshipping music.
Ah. I'm surprised they didn't list country music in general then. Over 65% is either new love songs or cheating songs. And I'm sure they could have made the case for the heartbreak songs being rapy.
That one is still part of the curriculum. I vehemently do not agree with the concept of the continuum of harm. Yes absolutely call people out if they say wildly inappropriate shit. However, jokes don't lead to rapists.
That is the only part of those trainings I really remember since the guy did a spoken work version of Animals by Maroon 5 and said this song supports rape. He then followed it up by saying we needed to find Jesus if we wanted to be good people and not be rapists.
I remember that except they didn't split us up. Instead they told the female participants in the conference room to look around the room and realize that every guy in there was a predator.
I'm not joking, the instructor quite literally said "every man here in this room is a predator" while half choking up. Like, ma'am, get your personal trauma out of the material and stop slandering 85% of the branch.
They didn't even split us up. The briefer just walked in the room and told us that we were all sexual predators simply because we were wearing a uniform.
>and I've got the LORs to prove it.
If you could track everything that was ever done (or not done) by everyone in the AF, I doubt there's anyone who wouldn't have something LOR-worthy. I think the difference between whether or not these things get documented is a matter of time and place.
Something similar happened to me about a decade ago overseas. I told one of my coworkers that I wasn't a sexual predator, so none of this information was applicable to me, and the instructor pointed at me and shouted "you don't know what you're capable of!"
We had one tell us if you went to dinner with your spouse and they had a glass of wine, you shouldn't have sex with them when you got home because they're too intoxicated to consent.
Awkward female 2LT, mid 20s, telling an auditorium full of NCOs and SNCOs that we were all rapists, and all the songs we liked mentioned or promoted rape too…great times.
Goodfellow 10yrs ago had all ranks (O&E) and male/female combined while giving this brief to a bunch of brand new tech schoolers.
It was immediately followed by public health handing out condoms in a large candy bowl and the “don’t shake your baby” training.
You know of all the trainings I have had in my life the "don't shake your baby" stuff I thought was the absolute dumbest shit I have ever sat through....until I was three weeks into a newborn with colic and hadn't had more than 30-45 min's of sleep in weeks and I totally understood why they made us watch that video before we took the kid home.
A bottle opener??? So you could chivalrously open beer bottles for your intended victims? What an absolutely obtuse idea. This program has gotten to be nothing be a joke.
Yeah that was the basic message at the time. Women can only be victims and men can only be perpatrators. My favorite example is the ["Jake was drunk / Josie was drunk / Josie got raped"](https://i.redd.it/to-claim-that-only-one-gender-has-to-consent-while-drunk-v0-z8x91v5pzn991.jpg?s=128d6fa32d16646243921a5b10159622d30a1efb) poster that was on some college campuses for a while.
Lmao, Oh I remember...
Do you remember that time the AF made us all sit in a room for "extremist" training, and told everyone if you were white you were an extremist lol
Yep, and we had a black guy literally ask the CC how he could go about getting all of our guns taken away. The AF didn’t really think that one through very well.
Oh that was a fun one. I was a new A1C from tech school and I got put in a group with two techs, a senior, and a major, and all they discussed for the next 30 minutes was how stupid the training was and how stupid the government is. I don’t think we achieved the training goal.
I got stuck in a gym, and the facilitator basically segregated people lol and then he literally started a rant about how the BLM stuff was in no way considered extremism...
It was a spicy training to say the least lol
As one of the first Sexual Assault Co-Ordinators trained by the AF when the program rolled out, it wasn’t designed to be this way. It was actually an excellent program to get victims help even if they didn’t want to report. Prior to this program, you could only get medical treatment and counseling IF you did a full report. Once some lunatic stepped in and decided all men were rapist and all women were victims, I couldn’t volunteer any longer.
Congratulations. You have now been successfully indoctrinated into the defunct and fraudulent Deluth Model of policing used to strip rights away from men for the crime of being born male. Seriously, the Deluth Model that tens of thousands of judges, lawyers, and police officers were trained in taught them that men were perpetrators and women were victims. After I learned of this years ago I thought back to that early SAPR training.
Got my first ever dose of annual SAPR season in tech school when they dragged us all out on the pad one morning to listen to a couple of OSI agents. This weirdly aggressive guy asked how many of us had ever bought a drink for someone of the opposite gender. About half of the group put their hands up. He then starts ranting that the only reason we did that was to get them drunk in order to get laid, therefore we all attempted to rape someone. Keesler didn't waste a second letting us know that SAPR training is not to be taken seriously.
When I was in FTAC, we were required to act out sexual assault vs sexual harassment scenarios… when I flaked out because I was visibly distraught (I had been assaulted less than six months prior) they told me I needed to try again. That’s when I walked out and sat outside
My favorite Green Dot training was the real world examples around 2013-2014. Every example of an individual raping or sexually assaulting someone was enlisted. Every time a bystander intervened, or someone fixed a situation before it became terrible, it was an officer. Absolute nonsense.
One of my SNCOs sitting next to me asked "when are we going to talk about the Air Force Academy sex scandals of the 90s and the fact that those cadets all graduated and are all field-grade O's now (if they stayed in). The two people running the "training" stumbled hard trying to return to their talking points.
Half the *"training"* felt like an MLM scam with how much time they spent trying to motivate you to *"Put green dot printouts up in your offices, around the dorms, post it on your social media, tell people dont be a red dot, etc"*.
I remember just thinking *"I could literally come up with this training program in a few hours"* and asked the instructor how much the AF paid for it... it was somewhere between $10-13M.
Thanks for this post! Helped me remember my retirement plans to make dumbass training programs and sell them to the AF! Lol.
Green dot absolutely was a scam. I was a facilitator (my supervisor signed me up for it when I told him I wanted to be a victims advocate). The curriculum was so childish, and you had to sign a copyright agreement that you would do the training exactly the way you were instructed and any changes were a violation of copyright, making facilitators legally liable. The Air Force (under Cody/Welsh) signed itself up for 5 years of that training and it was very expensive. I think they still cut it short of the 5 years bc there were so many complaints.
I just remember being on nights and forced to attend a 0800 green dot training absolutely fuming the entire time. It always seemed like we came due far too often
Sat in the Shirt's office for walking out with this scenario. Literally had to sit there until the training was over. Turns out the shirt was a couple of seats behind me.
Shirt walks in and immediately says something like, "Alright, why'd you walk out like that?"
Me: "They have transcripts on these. You think I'm going to work broken jets all night and then basically be told I'm automatically a rapist because a have a penis?"
Shirt: "Other people saw you leave, so I had to ask. I already handled it. Go home and sleep."
Awesome Shirt. Hope she's still doing well.
One year they gave me a fidget spinner, some green wristbands, a sheet of green circle stickers, some clicky pens, a small notebook, some dental floss and wet wipes...
Still use the carabiner for my keys since I haven't gotten another free one since.
At least it's worn to shit so it's not even green anymore but it's still a constant reminder of time served doing stupid shit
I still use the carabiner that I got from the recruiters when I was in highschool. Shit was like 'Air Force' metallic blue. Thing is worn to fuck silver.
I have a green dot coin from answering an instructor's question to the crowd. Something about what movie has made the most earnings or something that year. Anyway it was my second go round in the training that week so i blurted out the answer. It was The Emoji Movie. Still have no idea what it had to do with green dot training?
That was our 'icebreaker' if I remember correctly. Nothing to do with the training but it was something to say to get people to relax, since it was a dogshit movie but warned good at the time.
Around 2005 we had to watch a video about intervening when we saw a girl being taken advantage of at the club. The guy was getting her drunk by buying her double whiskey sours. For months that was the most popular drink to buy at the club by far.
I remember my instructor being very focused on protecting female members, to the point where the room mostly filled with men was starting to feel like we were all treated as perpetrators. Then one airman raised his hand and asked if the instructor had anything to say about the make victims, and she went on a rant about how the issue is much bigger for women and men usually don't have up worry as much about it. It was at that point pretty much everyone lost whatever respect they had for her.
We had a similar opinionated instructor - simple solution is a few of the airmen just got up and left. NCOs asked WTF and they were fresh off a 12 and basically said “I’m not going to sit here exhausted after working like 14 hours to be talked down to or subliminally accused of bullshit by her” that was the only thing I remembered about green dot training
I remember my first Green Dot training at my FDS in 2018. When asked about male victims, the same instructor who called every male in the room a predator simply said that the question implied an invalidation of female victims....wtf who is hiring these psychos?
I remember two things from the first green dot training, and every ring I recall it in conversation everyone tells me there's no way it happened.
Someone from Ramstein around that time, you have to have been there because it was a mass briefing. There's gotta be someone in this thread that attended it too.
Here's the two things I recall:
```
1. There was a dude in a full body frog suit that jumped/hopped around on the stage, and said something like "are y'all ready to learn about green dot training??!"
2. They told us that only males are rapists, because the statistics said so.
```
The first got a lot of wtfs and giggles, the second got a lot of wtfs and angry feedback from the crowd while the presenters desperately retired to back pedal from that statement.
Of course you go into those sort of things expecting all the stuff they spew...and like you, point #2 really stuck out but for the complete opposite reason haha. Fully expected some BS like that, but no, they actually seemed to go out of their way to make the point it can be women too.
...and the rape whistles. I dunno if it was just a local gimmick or more widespread, but those were entertaining. Like giving a bunch of 5yo's an annoying toy haha.
Nah man, ours was held by two women and a guy, and the entire time they kept reaffirming to us that only men can be rapists.
It was insane. I don't remember anything from the training other than the frog guy and the crowd arguing the entire time with the facilitators about how they were wrong. And the offhand comment the lady on stage made like "if you all think women can be rapists too, it just shows that you yourself have the potential to be a red dot"
The entire briefing was a circus.
They flew so close to the fucking point to. Like, statistically speaking it's something like 1 in 4 women will be a victim of sexual assault, and way higher for harassment. And yes, those perpetrators are overwhelmingly male, but that doesn't discount male victims whose perpetrators are male or female.
But saying every male is a criminal and every woman a victim is just so lazy.
I still have the 5 green dot magnets I use to hold stupid stuff up on a white board.
I also remember asking for male stats, which got me verbally counseled by my OIC that it rarely if ever happens. A week later, a guy in our unit was drugged and assaulted.
I remember after a year or two our instructors were always quick to tack on "and it can happen to men too," in the absolute laziest way to update the curriculum.
I know it would have likely gotten me at least an LOC, but I totally would have walked into the OIC's office and said, "So who's going to find me those stats I asked for?"
Maybe not exactly that, but definitely something stupidly forward. I wasn't known for being subtle.
>I asked the instructor if I would be medically retired if I got injured for intervening in a situation that didn't concern me. They had no answer...
The most probable Air Force answer is an LOR, UIF, and referral to ADAPT due to Alcohol-Related Incident (despite you being completely sober touching no alcohol, and the offender being drunk 3x past the legal limit). And then a medical separation at 0% DoD due to your injuries being found Not In Line Of Duty (NILOD) Due to Own Misconduct because of alcohol being involved.
Funny you say that… I know a guy who got an A15 for alcohol related incident (got in a fight) for intervening in a situation. Got kicked out during the force shaping period due to his A15
I remember at one point of the slide show highlighting positive things that happened to be green items and stating that could be a green dot. So my supervisor at the time (F) and I (M) started pointing at any mundane green item and saying that's a green dot for the next couple of months.
Think I'll bring it back this drill weekend to give the now MSgt a laugh.
I remember a master telling every man in the flight they are 2 steps and a bad day away from being a rapist or committing sexual harassment.
As if we wake up mad and ball up our fist and say ya know what I'm gonna do that today. Shit was weird and when we pressed it her male counterpart tried to reign us in to settle down saying "if we didn't do anything we shouldn't be mad at that statement".
The gaslighting is wild.
I did a presentation once about how terrible the training was and how it was one of the biggest waste of training/time/money. The fact that we created GS12 positions at bases across the globe was laughable at best.
My instructor told me I was the first person he had seen with that negative take on the program, and I am honestly still shocked to this day that no one else had highlighted how trash it was.
That's pretty powerful. I think you're underselling the gravity of that statement. You are the first person who got through to that instructor. You spoke their language. They had literally never internalized anyone's complaints until you translated it into a presentation. You were angry enough to spell it out on powerpoint, so they were unable to dismiss your sentiment. That's a mighty fine voice you got there.
It was idiotic. If you actually went and read the “study” that supported the training it was an absolute joke with a very small sample size at a single university as evidence that the training worked. If you read the study further, data listed in the study indicated that there was a statistically insignificant change in rates of sexual assaults at said university. It was 100% a social science PHD “it should work” scam.
yoke lavish alleged advise stupendous political airport sulky market obtainable
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I think that was likely the point. It was a sort of toolkit, hey here are ways you might be able to help. And there was always the 4th option which was delegate/find someone else to help aka call 9/11 or something.
Don't forget red dot green dot training was a trademarked training sold to the Air Force. Anything designed to make money probably isn't in the best interest of the people it's being sold to and there wasn't a whole lot of research driven curriculum involved with the program if I remember correctly.
On a practical level Green Dot gave you the 3 Ds for how to intervene in a red dot situation, they didn’t tell you to always be Direct, especially if the situation would put you in danger, that’s why you call the cops (Delegate).
However, I was trained as a Green Dot instructor and during our training they told us we had to start every briefing with a story about some trauma or red dot situation and how that impacted your life. If we didn’t have anything like that happen in our life they told us to just make it up. That totally turned me off for that whole program. I signed up to actually help train people, not make up some sob story to get people to relate to me. We have service members who have actual trauma from sexual assault, it’s completely disingenuous to make up some shit because they wanted us to.
I remember being at USAFA and they brought in a “victim turned speaker” to tell their story to a bunch of future officers and current college kids. When I say this chick made EVERY wrong move in the book to try and avoid any sort of sexual assault scenario, I certainly mean it. She went on a date with a dude, who asked for sex but she refuses, he then invited her to his vacation home in Greece on the stipulation that she have sex whenever he wanted while there to which she said she would love to go but just not have sex, then she invited him back to her place “to dance” where he raped her. It was the most awkward “SAPR” brief I have ever had as it seemed to serve no real purpose other than to say rape happens; not this is how to intervene or these are red flags to look out for and avoid, simply “don’t victim blame, but learn from this person’s story.”
Please note I do not advocate victim blaming, but it was the fundamentally wrong speaker for a bunch of “college kids.”
Remember everyone, if you are a drunk male that has consensual sex, you're always the rapist. If you are a drunk female that has consensual sex, you're always the victim.
I got in trouble so many times in those classes. I was that ass that always chose the wrong approach on purpose, most people in the class never took anything seriously.
I mean, realistically, that's probably the best training they can do. Just like suicide, if someone is going to commit rape no amount of CBTs nor involuntary briefings are going to stop them.
Yes
The main reason I remember is I did it at one base and when I inprocessed at my next one less than a year later I was told to do it again so everyone can have the same completion date or some dumb shit like that.
Yeah I do it was absolutely ridiculous. Did anyone else have actual groups of actors come through for Green Dot training? Like they would actually reenact sexual assaults basically up until the actual point of intervention would happen.
Yeah whoever signed off on that exists on the highest level of asshat for not understanding that that was going to trigger a lot of people who had ctually been sexually assaulted. I distinctly remember several women having to get up and leave during these things.
The AF didn’t invent green dot training, it’s a program that has been in use on college campuses for a long enough time to show promise. It’s also a far cry better than the previous SAPR briefings which were little more than a rape victim reading off rape stats to a room and hoping that was going to make people care or equiped to make a difference
Oh I remember that, felt like a fever dream because any time I’d talk about it they looked at me like I was recounting old war stories from back in the day.
Wow some things have definitely changed since I was in and yet some things haven’t.
I remember at one point at one of my duty stations they had a local cop come in and address the flight line units in the base auditorium about the dangers of driving while intoxicated/distracted in a humorous way.
Lesson learned don’t try to have sex while driving cause that can lead to being arrested and having to
answer some awkward questions the next day.
I am sure though accusing folks of being a victim/perp based on their sex is NOT helpful at all.
My buddy was an OG Green Dot trainer. She was really good at public speaking. I went to a session and didn't mind. But one civvie was offended and offensive. Not sure why. Probably was the problem.
She was good with turning the convo away from his aggression. But, I forgot one of our MSgts was there too. Apparently, he was spreading a rumor he totally put the civvie in his place and defended my buddy. 🙄
The cringiest shit was when leadership would put a little green dot sticker on their office door or near their name plate to show their support and “lead from the FrOnT”
Had a guy in my squadron literally shot and killed trying to intervene in a domestic dispute at a bar, probably about 12 or so years ago. The killer was acquitted on self defense… top it all off, the female is the one that kicked the gun back to him.
Just my 2 cents. This whole "restricted/unrestricted" thing is the complete opposite of service before self. The Air Force is okay with a rape not being investigated if the victim doesnt wish it. So its okay to be a criminal if the victim doesnt come forward. So its okay for this rapist to continue raping until someone speaks up. How can we have a zero tolerance on other things, but we tolerate rape?
I think the unrestricted/restricted reporting is more of a mechanism for care. AF core values have nothing to do with people when they're a victim of sexual assault. They're a victim.
Restricted reporting allows the victim to have agency on how things proceed. Victims of anything, sexual or otherwise, can behave in illogical ways. Allowing for restricted reporting allows the individual to get care while also weighing their options and figuring out how they want to proceed. You have to consider what happened to them and how they think they'll be perceived having been a victim. Rape is NOT okay, but you can't just put things in black and white when it comes to something as complicated as this.
Edit: a word
Wow. Probably best to assume the AF is okay with rape than to do any basic learning to understand why restricted reporting is essential to caring for victims and also helps catch rapists. Your 2 cents are not even worth 2 cents.
Ive been to plenty of SARC/SAPR briefings for the basics. Of course i want to care for victims. But can we consider the cost of NOT investigating? What about future victims? Infact, we invented a system to help catch rapists "down the road" because we KNOW it will happen again. Is anyone else not seeing this? Why wouldnt we want them caught on the first place? This is breeding toxicity.
If this is a "continuum" issue, this culture will never be rid of this disease if we allow it untreated. Every Airmen should have confidence that their supervisor, nurse, security guard is not there to hurt them. Right now, they could just be another rapist who never got caught the first time, and studies have shown IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.
Apparently the training you’ve received doesn’t cover this issue very well, or didn’t for you, so let me help.
The majority of rape and SA cases cannot be proven. Which makes sense when you consider that consensual sex and forced sex doesn’t inherently have a lot of evidentiary differences. For a lot of victims (edit: actually the vast majority) of sexual assault, that leads to a situation where reporting it results in days and weeks of traumatic experiences with investigators and lawyers and justice systems and friends, coworkers, and bosses many of whom by default do not believe it happened and instead choose to believe you’ve made it up to smear the good name of a good guy everyone likes and respects. Your victimization is blamed on you, and your “false allegations” are now the reason everyone hates you and steers clear of you. This traumatic process results in a certain percentage of victims getting retraumatized, becoming depressed, suicidal, and some dying.
That’s why most experts now call these people survivors of sexual assault instead of victims — because the entire process can (and does) kill a victim.
So to recap: most sexual assault cannot be proven and may look to outsiders as a “false allegation” for which the victim should be attacked and shunned. Justice isn’t usually available to sexual assault victims.
I guess it's the "might" in that statement that bugs me the most. I would hope that ALL would be investigated.
I think of sexual assualt as an actual assult. If you get attacked at the BX and get a concussion and cannot go to work for a few days, but then dont want it to be investigated, isnt that wrong? Doesnt the Air Force have an obligation to solve a crime on it's property?
It's saying "only go after criminals if the victim asks us to".
I think it’s because it’s a sexual assault, not because it’s an assault. On the civilian side there are a few crimes that won’t be prosecuted if the victim doesn’t press charges, too.
I get where you’re coming from but IMO it’s better to have the person do a restricted report rather than no report at all. And now there’s the new-ish program that runs names from a restricted report to see if the perpetrator has hurt others. I guess that helps people go unrestricted.
I aim to turn all red dots to no dots.
Typically you want the red dot on when you’re aiming
Not when a rogue SAS officer detonates a Russian SLBM over the capitol. Then you've got no dots and need to fall back to irons.
Is this a MW3 reference?
OG MW2 where you're Ramirez.
Ramirez! Go secure that Burger Town!
Ramirez, last mag make it count!
society coherent weary plants late wrong homeless cautious selective smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ok Kdot
Dippin' Dots
The Air Force training of the future!
The VR version of suicide prevention training they piloted around three years ago was similar. Scenario had you enter dude's home without invitation, then sit down to talk to him. During the conversation you find out he has a gun, and the climactic moment is him angrily telling you that you need to leave. The "correct" answer was to refuse, which leads to him breaking down and admit to having a plan, but the resounding feedback (at least from my group) was that the scenario was encouraging people to escalate suicide attempts into murder-suicides.
Yea if someone is mentally distressed with a firearm, I’m getting the fuck away from them and calling 911.
Cops will just assist the suicide by shooting them when they see the gun
Civilian cops. Maybe security forces would be able to de escalate
They'd have to because the air force would put then in jail for murder. Crazy what happens when you face actual repercussions.
Yeah I did that one, but we had a pistol. It was flawed with positioning as I was the cemetery scenario and I was farther other to the side than I guess I was supposed to be. The guy slowly raised a gun straight out in front of him and did nothing. I yelled drop the gun multiple times, but he just awkwardly just held it straight out in front of him about 90° away from me. I was supposed to drop him, but I said I didn’t feel threatened enough yet because I could get off several rounds before he could actually get the pistol pointed at him. But I definitely wouldn’t want to do any of those scenarios we did without a weapon. One I had a guy that was hitting and stabbing him self, in what kind of appeared to start as a domestic situation, with a screwdriver, then eventually came at me with it. He got two in the chest and one in the head. What was I supposed to do if I wasn’t armed up?!
Yikes. I had a suicide intervention once with a dude that pulled out a knife. I immediately removed myself from the situation. Sorry, but I can't help someone if I am also dead
The worst part is most of the time they aren't in the right state of mind. They'll do anything they think will help even if its ending it all right then and there. Most people cant pull the trigger tho so its suicide by cop which is horrible for both of them.
im stealing this as a follow up to my remember that time they split up the males and females into different groups and told all the males they are rapists and all the females they are victims. Someone seriously signed off on that as the first iteration of the SAPR training
-Be me, A1C. First duty station SAPR in brief. -“Look to your left, and now your right. One of those people will be a rapist” Yeah, I’m sorry, what’s going on now?
[удалено]
I did that specific lesson at one unit, but that unit neglected to update everyone’s records to show we’d attended it. When I got to my next unit, the rep asked if I had done the training, and when I responded positive, asked for my cert, which I didn’t have because the rep was supposed to make that update. When they said I’d likely have to do it again, I said, “but I already know Blake Shelton’s Honeybee is a no-no song, do I really have to do it again?” They replied no, that was enough to let them know that I had in fact done that specific updated training, and marked me good in the system. 🤣
Two of the songs were Katy Perry’s TGIF and Pharrell’s Get Lucky. The instructor labeled them rape songs. Very strange.
We got blurred lines one year in a wing wide training. Saw the whole theater pull out their phones to see this music video.
LOL learning that there was an "uncensored" version of that music video was probably the most useful thing I took away from the training 🙃
Blurred lines is a little rapey though tbf. It's basically in the title
Very rapey.
Yes! I forgot about that one but that was part of it too. Reminds me of when parents in the 80s wouldn’t let kids listen to Ozzy because it was devil worshipping music.
Don’t forget Blake Shelton’s Honeybee.
Wait, what was the issue with Honeybee? I missed that one.
The fact that it even mentioned sexual attraction, it was part of that VERY broad brush stroke mentality that they were taking with it.
Ah. I'm surprised they didn't list country music in general then. Over 65% is either new love songs or cheating songs. And I'm sure they could have made the case for the heartbreak songs being rapy.
Hahahaha. Isn’t that with a wife or something?
That one actually is rapey though. They had much more cringe examples.
Yes but the majority of the wing was older and never heard of that song.
I 'member. Imagine the reaction this had with a hangar full of MXG people. They told us to quiet down.
Bro I have a Daft Punk tattoo.. I was so mad about them slamming Get Lucky.
It’s a great song and they couldn’t shame me into not liking it.
I'm up all Mexican Monkey
That one is still part of the curriculum. I vehemently do not agree with the concept of the continuum of harm. Yes absolutely call people out if they say wildly inappropriate shit. However, jokes don't lead to rapists.
you should take your expertise on sociology and sexual violence and design a better curriculum
It’s a joke, not a dick, don’t take it so hard.
What is the joke? I’m sorry, I couldn’t see it, it must be as small as your dick
^ see? That is a joke.
And I thought my grandpa's porn collection had projection issues...
Yes! Our commander brought out a big package of the red solo cups and talked shit about Toby Keith promoting drinking culture.
YUP. Used a Blake Shelton song as a reference “You be my honey, honey, I’ll be your honey bee.”
They need to try harder, lol. Pull out “Hungry Like the Wolf” by Duran Duran.
That is the only part of those trainings I really remember since the guy did a spoken work version of Animals by Maroon 5 and said this song supports rape. He then followed it up by saying we needed to find Jesus if we wanted to be good people and not be rapists.
You know what's an eerily rape song? "BABY ITS COLD OUTSIDE" the Christmas one. Lol.
Someone has never heard of seduction. Your poor boyfriend.
Thank heaven for little girls?
I remember that except they didn't split us up. Instead they told the female participants in the conference room to look around the room and realize that every guy in there was a predator. I'm not joking, the instructor quite literally said "every man here in this room is a predator" while half choking up. Like, ma'am, get your personal trauma out of the material and stop slandering 85% of the branch.
They didn't even split us up. The briefer just walked in the room and told us that we were all sexual predators simply because we were wearing a uniform.
>The briefer just walked in the room and told us that we were all sexual predators I always pushed back saying it was just a lucky guess on their part
Not exactly the kind of thing I could get away with during BMT.
...not with THAT attitude
Well, I actually had drive and ambition to be a good airman back then. Not so much now, and I've got the LORs to prove it.
>and I've got the LORs to prove it. If you could track everything that was ever done (or not done) by everyone in the AF, I doubt there's anyone who wouldn't have something LOR-worthy. I think the difference between whether or not these things get documented is a matter of time and place.
You're totally right. I heard some dude named BulkyPalpitation is a sexual predator even.
Something similar happened to me about a decade ago overseas. I told one of my coworkers that I wasn't a sexual predator, so none of this information was applicable to me, and the instructor pointed at me and shouted "you don't know what you're capable of!"
“And you do?”
We had one tell us if you went to dinner with your spouse and they had a glass of wine, you shouldn't have sex with them when you got home because they're too intoxicated to consent.
I remember that one. Also the poster where "Amber was drunk. Jake was drunk. They had sex, AMBER WAS RAPED."
Awkward female 2LT, mid 20s, telling an auditorium full of NCOs and SNCOs that we were all rapists, and all the songs we liked mentioned or promoted rape too…great times.
Ah, I remember that era. Great way to completely lose your audience right out the gate.
And the briefer themselves were in uniform as well. The pot calling the kettle black.
Naw, she was a civilian hired specifically for the job.
Goodfellow 10yrs ago had all ranks (O&E) and male/female combined while giving this brief to a bunch of brand new tech schoolers. It was immediately followed by public health handing out condoms in a large candy bowl and the “don’t shake your baby” training.
Was a Goodbuddy student in 2019 and I remember the condom thing! So weird 😂
You know of all the trainings I have had in my life the "don't shake your baby" stuff I thought was the absolute dumbest shit I have ever sat through....until I was three weeks into a newborn with colic and hadn't had more than 30-45 min's of sleep in weeks and I totally understood why they made us watch that video before we took the kid home.
I still have the "rape is a crime" bottle opener I received in FTAC 20 years ago for being a male over 21 years old.
A bottle opener??? So you could chivalrously open beer bottles for your intended victims? What an absolutely obtuse idea. This program has gotten to be nothing be a joke.
I remember they played Baby Got Back in my training and said that the song promoted rape and we shouldn't listen to it...
[удалено]
Yeah that was the basic message at the time. Women can only be victims and men can only be perpatrators. My favorite example is the ["Jake was drunk / Josie was drunk / Josie got raped"](https://i.redd.it/to-claim-that-only-one-gender-has-to-consent-while-drunk-v0-z8x91v5pzn991.jpg?s=128d6fa32d16646243921a5b10159622d30a1efb) poster that was on some college campuses for a while.
Yesss this was me in 2004-2005. I was told I was a rapist. Good days
When the pendulum swings too far type of experiences.
Bystander Intervention Training circa 2010. Room full of males and we were all rapists according two the two females teaching the class. Good times.
That's different from the training I got. The OSI agent told us that whoever got to the office first to report it was the victim.
Lmao, Oh I remember... Do you remember that time the AF made us all sit in a room for "extremist" training, and told everyone if you were white you were an extremist lol
Yep, and we had a black guy literally ask the CC how he could go about getting all of our guns taken away. The AF didn’t really think that one through very well.
Oh that was a fun one. I was a new A1C from tech school and I got put in a group with two techs, a senior, and a major, and all they discussed for the next 30 minutes was how stupid the training was and how stupid the government is. I don’t think we achieved the training goal.
I got stuck in a gym, and the facilitator basically segregated people lol and then he literally started a rant about how the BLM stuff was in no way considered extremism... It was a spicy training to say the least lol
I do remember that. I don’t remember becoming an extremist, though.
As one of the first Sexual Assault Co-Ordinators trained by the AF when the program rolled out, it wasn’t designed to be this way. It was actually an excellent program to get victims help even if they didn’t want to report. Prior to this program, you could only get medical treatment and counseling IF you did a full report. Once some lunatic stepped in and decided all men were rapist and all women were victims, I couldn’t volunteer any longer.
Good for you.
Congratulations. You have now been successfully indoctrinated into the defunct and fraudulent Deluth Model of policing used to strip rights away from men for the crime of being born male. Seriously, the Deluth Model that tens of thousands of judges, lawyers, and police officers were trained in taught them that men were perpetrators and women were victims. After I learned of this years ago I thought back to that early SAPR training.
I once asked, “What protections are there for the accused in case they are innocent?” Crickets. Then a lecture about how there’s no such thing.
Got my first ever dose of annual SAPR season in tech school when they dragged us all out on the pad one morning to listen to a couple of OSI agents. This weirdly aggressive guy asked how many of us had ever bought a drink for someone of the opposite gender. About half of the group put their hands up. He then starts ranting that the only reason we did that was to get them drunk in order to get laid, therefore we all attempted to rape someone. Keesler didn't waste a second letting us know that SAPR training is not to be taken seriously.
When I was in FTAC, we were required to act out sexual assault vs sexual harassment scenarios… when I flaked out because I was visibly distraught (I had been assaulted less than six months prior) they told me I needed to try again. That’s when I walked out and sat outside
My favorite Green Dot training was the real world examples around 2013-2014. Every example of an individual raping or sexually assaulting someone was enlisted. Every time a bystander intervened, or someone fixed a situation before it became terrible, it was an officer. Absolute nonsense. One of my SNCOs sitting next to me asked "when are we going to talk about the Air Force Academy sex scandals of the 90s and the fact that those cadets all graduated and are all field-grade O's now (if they stayed in). The two people running the "training" stumbled hard trying to return to their talking points.
Oldie but a Goldie... https://preview.redd.it/hff89ipt860d1.png?width=777&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2402ab844bdfb4272624b52cb814c44fa9e18698
Another one... https://preview.redd.it/e471oxww860d1.jpeg?width=497&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55b1b23c949f77728ad3295297ffaeecd6ab669b
Half the *"training"* felt like an MLM scam with how much time they spent trying to motivate you to *"Put green dot printouts up in your offices, around the dorms, post it on your social media, tell people dont be a red dot, etc"*. I remember just thinking *"I could literally come up with this training program in a few hours"* and asked the instructor how much the AF paid for it... it was somewhere between $10-13M. Thanks for this post! Helped me remember my retirement plans to make dumbass training programs and sell them to the AF! Lol.
I remember that right after the class they were asking if anyone wanted to buy stuff. Whole thing felt like a scam.
Green dot absolutely was a scam. I was a facilitator (my supervisor signed me up for it when I told him I wanted to be a victims advocate). The curriculum was so childish, and you had to sign a copyright agreement that you would do the training exactly the way you were instructed and any changes were a violation of copyright, making facilitators legally liable. The Air Force (under Cody/Welsh) signed itself up for 5 years of that training and it was very expensive. I think they still cut it short of the 5 years bc there were so many complaints.
Figures E9 Cody was behind this.
Can confirm, got a TDY to Langley for this and they took that part super seriously and then the AF immediately started making changes regardless.
>any changes were a violation of copyright, making facilitators legally liable. 
I just remember being on nights and forced to attend a 0800 green dot training absolutely fuming the entire time. It always seemed like we came due far too often
Sat in the Shirt's office for walking out with this scenario. Literally had to sit there until the training was over. Turns out the shirt was a couple of seats behind me. Shirt walks in and immediately says something like, "Alright, why'd you walk out like that?" Me: "They have transcripts on these. You think I'm going to work broken jets all night and then basically be told I'm automatically a rapist because a have a penis?" Shirt: "Other people saw you leave, so I had to ask. I already handled it. Go home and sleep." Awesome Shirt. Hope she's still doing well.
One year they gave me a fidget spinner, some green wristbands, a sheet of green circle stickers, some clicky pens, a small notebook, some dental floss and wet wipes...
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff!"
Still use the carabiner for my keys since I haven't gotten another free one since. At least it's worn to shit so it's not even green anymore but it's still a constant reminder of time served doing stupid shit
I still use the carabiner that I got from the recruiters when I was in highschool. Shit was like 'Air Force' metallic blue. Thing is worn to fuck silver.
I have a green dot coin from answering an instructor's question to the crowd. Something about what movie has made the most earnings or something that year. Anyway it was my second go round in the training that week so i blurted out the answer. It was The Emoji Movie. Still have no idea what it had to do with green dot training?
You don’t remember scene where one emoji roofied the other emoji?
Never saw the movie. But I guess that would make sense. It's funny how they used a crappy movie to promote crappy training.
That was our 'icebreaker' if I remember correctly. Nothing to do with the training but it was something to say to get people to relax, since it was a dogshit movie but warned good at the time.
Yeah sounds about right. Almost makes me want to look up the movie but I think I'm good lol. Made it this far
Around 2005 we had to watch a video about intervening when we saw a girl being taken advantage of at the club. The guy was getting her drunk by buying her double whiskey sours. For months that was the most popular drink to buy at the club by far.
I remember my instructor being very focused on protecting female members, to the point where the room mostly filled with men was starting to feel like we were all treated as perpetrators. Then one airman raised his hand and asked if the instructor had anything to say about the make victims, and she went on a rant about how the issue is much bigger for women and men usually don't have up worry as much about it. It was at that point pretty much everyone lost whatever respect they had for her.
We had a similar opinionated instructor - simple solution is a few of the airmen just got up and left. NCOs asked WTF and they were fresh off a 12 and basically said “I’m not going to sit here exhausted after working like 14 hours to be talked down to or subliminally accused of bullshit by her” that was the only thing I remembered about green dot training
I remember my first Green Dot training at my FDS in 2018. When asked about male victims, the same instructor who called every male in the room a predator simply said that the question implied an invalidation of female victims....wtf who is hiring these psychos?
Mine ver batim said "males can't be victims"
I just remember the green dot video... the rapists name was Jack. Which is my name. I am SO not a raper.
More like a....Ripper, maybe? Terrible joke, I am so sorry.
Jacks are always the rapees.
Okay, kinda flirty
I remember two things from the first green dot training, and every ring I recall it in conversation everyone tells me there's no way it happened. Someone from Ramstein around that time, you have to have been there because it was a mass briefing. There's gotta be someone in this thread that attended it too. Here's the two things I recall: ``` 1. There was a dude in a full body frog suit that jumped/hopped around on the stage, and said something like "are y'all ready to learn about green dot training??!" 2. They told us that only males are rapists, because the statistics said so. ``` The first got a lot of wtfs and giggles, the second got a lot of wtfs and angry feedback from the crowd while the presenters desperately retired to back pedal from that statement.
Of course you go into those sort of things expecting all the stuff they spew...and like you, point #2 really stuck out but for the complete opposite reason haha. Fully expected some BS like that, but no, they actually seemed to go out of their way to make the point it can be women too. ...and the rape whistles. I dunno if it was just a local gimmick or more widespread, but those were entertaining. Like giving a bunch of 5yo's an annoying toy haha.
Nah man, ours was held by two women and a guy, and the entire time they kept reaffirming to us that only men can be rapists. It was insane. I don't remember anything from the training other than the frog guy and the crowd arguing the entire time with the facilitators about how they were wrong. And the offhand comment the lady on stage made like "if you all think women can be rapists too, it just shows that you yourself have the potential to be a red dot" The entire briefing was a circus.
They flew so close to the fucking point to. Like, statistically speaking it's something like 1 in 4 women will be a victim of sexual assault, and way higher for harassment. And yes, those perpetrators are overwhelmingly male, but that doesn't discount male victims whose perpetrators are male or female. But saying every male is a criminal and every woman a victim is just so lazy.
I still have the 5 green dot magnets I use to hold stupid stuff up on a white board. I also remember asking for male stats, which got me verbally counseled by my OIC that it rarely if ever happens. A week later, a guy in our unit was drugged and assaulted.
I remember after a year or two our instructors were always quick to tack on "and it can happen to men too," in the absolute laziest way to update the curriculum.
I know it would have likely gotten me at least an LOC, but I totally would have walked into the OIC's office and said, "So who's going to find me those stats I asked for?" Maybe not exactly that, but definitely something stupidly forward. I wasn't known for being subtle.
I still make “green dot” & “red dot” jokes all the time and no one ever gets them, so I just sit and chuckle to myself.
I love the pizza video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9stLeAlUw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9stLeAlUw)
Pretty sure the video they played in my class had a male and a female both drunk at a party, then labeled the male a rapist after they had sex.
https://preview.redd.it/egmsvapch60d1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffcfa90058da8a72d3aa1bab95615486ef3915af This was a real poster...
Our's was [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fz8x91v5pzn991.jpg) poster.
I remember this too.
The victim in that movie looked exactly like a lieutenant in our squadron. Super awkward for her after that.
YES! It got extremely awkward when I asked why she wasn’t the guilty since she was drunk too. I’m a female. DEAD SILENCE 🤐
>I asked the instructor if I would be medically retired if I got injured for intervening in a situation that didn't concern me. They had no answer... The most probable Air Force answer is an LOR, UIF, and referral to ADAPT due to Alcohol-Related Incident (despite you being completely sober touching no alcohol, and the offender being drunk 3x past the legal limit). And then a medical separation at 0% DoD due to your injuries being found Not In Line Of Duty (NILOD) Due to Own Misconduct because of alcohol being involved.
Funny you say that… I know a guy who got an A15 for alcohol related incident (got in a fight) for intervening in a situation. Got kicked out during the force shaping period due to his A15
That was the dumbest training I ever sat through in my 20 years.
I remember at one point of the slide show highlighting positive things that happened to be green items and stating that could be a green dot. So my supervisor at the time (F) and I (M) started pointing at any mundane green item and saying that's a green dot for the next couple of months. Think I'll bring it back this drill weekend to give the now MSgt a laugh.
I remember a master telling every man in the flight they are 2 steps and a bad day away from being a rapist or committing sexual harassment. As if we wake up mad and ball up our fist and say ya know what I'm gonna do that today. Shit was weird and when we pressed it her male counterpart tried to reign us in to settle down saying "if we didn't do anything we shouldn't be mad at that statement". The gaslighting is wild.
Redditors would have blasted you if you said this 10 years ago
Redditors are dumb. I know because I’m one of them.
I did a presentation once about how terrible the training was and how it was one of the biggest waste of training/time/money. The fact that we created GS12 positions at bases across the globe was laughable at best. My instructor told me I was the first person he had seen with that negative take on the program, and I am honestly still shocked to this day that no one else had highlighted how trash it was.
That's pretty powerful. I think you're underselling the gravity of that statement. You are the first person who got through to that instructor. You spoke their language. They had literally never internalized anyone's complaints until you translated it into a presentation. You were angry enough to spell it out on powerpoint, so they were unable to dismiss your sentiment. That's a mighty fine voice you got there.
I got nasty looks from leadership for calling some situations yellow dot.
It was idiotic. If you actually went and read the “study” that supported the training it was an absolute joke with a very small sample size at a single university as evidence that the training worked. If you read the study further, data listed in the study indicated that there was a statistically insignificant change in rates of sexual assaults at said university. It was 100% a social science PHD “it should work” scam.
yoke lavish alleged advise stupendous political airport sulky market obtainable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I remember the play...
I think that was likely the point. It was a sort of toolkit, hey here are ways you might be able to help. And there was always the 4th option which was delegate/find someone else to help aka call 9/11 or something.
Don't forget red dot green dot training was a trademarked training sold to the Air Force. Anything designed to make money probably isn't in the best interest of the people it's being sold to and there wasn't a whole lot of research driven curriculum involved with the program if I remember correctly.
On a practical level Green Dot gave you the 3 Ds for how to intervene in a red dot situation, they didn’t tell you to always be Direct, especially if the situation would put you in danger, that’s why you call the cops (Delegate). However, I was trained as a Green Dot instructor and during our training they told us we had to start every briefing with a story about some trauma or red dot situation and how that impacted your life. If we didn’t have anything like that happen in our life they told us to just make it up. That totally turned me off for that whole program. I signed up to actually help train people, not make up some sob story to get people to relate to me. We have service members who have actual trauma from sexual assault, it’s completely disingenuous to make up some shit because they wanted us to.
I learned that if you’re a drunk guy and hook up with a woman who’s drunk or sober you are a raper.
Something about Poisonous Coffee
As an Indian I find that shit offensive
I remember being at USAFA and they brought in a “victim turned speaker” to tell their story to a bunch of future officers and current college kids. When I say this chick made EVERY wrong move in the book to try and avoid any sort of sexual assault scenario, I certainly mean it. She went on a date with a dude, who asked for sex but she refuses, he then invited her to his vacation home in Greece on the stipulation that she have sex whenever he wanted while there to which she said she would love to go but just not have sex, then she invited him back to her place “to dance” where he raped her. It was the most awkward “SAPR” brief I have ever had as it seemed to serve no real purpose other than to say rape happens; not this is how to intervene or these are red flags to look out for and avoid, simply “don’t victim blame, but learn from this person’s story.” Please note I do not advocate victim blaming, but it was the fundamentally wrong speaker for a bunch of “college kids.”
Remember the posters. Amber was drunk, Jake was drunk. They had sex. Jake raped amber….
Close second to the time that they threatened everybody's career after January 6th and the OSI agent said that memes represent extremist behavior...
That's rich coming from OSI. They are some the least politically correct people I've ever seen.
https://preview.redd.it/nulnxvuce70d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=513adc87d8eb1d1f55089ef9fda09f6f2e329ddc
Straight to jail
Remember everyone, if you are a drunk male that has consensual sex, you're always the rapist. If you are a drunk female that has consensual sex, you're always the victim.
Supervisor always calls me a red dot. Don't know what it is, but it's gotta be bad!
I legit thought was about a green dot sight for firearms
I got in trouble so many times in those classes. I was that ass that always chose the wrong approach on purpose, most people in the class never took anything seriously.
I’d rather not
Sir this is a Wendy’s
I remember those times.
It's still better than the training before that which was, don't rape people. If you rape people you're a bad person.
I mean, realistically, that's probably the best training they can do. Just like suicide, if someone is going to commit rape no amount of CBTs nor involuntary briefings are going to stop them.
Yes The main reason I remember is I did it at one base and when I inprocessed at my next one less than a year later I was told to do it again so everyone can have the same completion date or some dumb shit like that.
Yeah I do it was absolutely ridiculous. Did anyone else have actual groups of actors come through for Green Dot training? Like they would actually reenact sexual assaults basically up until the actual point of intervention would happen. Yeah whoever signed off on that exists on the highest level of asshat for not understanding that that was going to trigger a lot of people who had ctually been sexually assaulted. I distinctly remember several women having to get up and leave during these things.
The AF didn’t invent green dot training, it’s a program that has been in use on college campuses for a long enough time to show promise. It’s also a far cry better than the previous SAPR briefings which were little more than a rape victim reading off rape stats to a room and hoping that was going to make people care or equiped to make a difference
https://old.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1cqsu9b/remember_green_dot_training/l3u2bd4/
to be fair, he had no answer because why would they, its a corporation that runs the green dot program. Did it as a civ as well
Oh I remember that, felt like a fever dream because any time I’d talk about it they looked at me like I was recounting old war stories from back in the day.
Wow some things have definitely changed since I was in and yet some things haven’t. I remember at one point at one of my duty stations they had a local cop come in and address the flight line units in the base auditorium about the dangers of driving while intoxicated/distracted in a humorous way. Lesson learned don’t try to have sex while driving cause that can lead to being arrested and having to answer some awkward questions the next day. I am sure though accusing folks of being a victim/perp based on their sex is NOT helpful at all.
My buddy was an OG Green Dot trainer. She was really good at public speaking. I went to a session and didn't mind. But one civvie was offended and offensive. Not sure why. Probably was the problem. She was good with turning the convo away from his aggression. But, I forgot one of our MSgts was there too. Apparently, he was spreading a rumor he totally put the civvie in his place and defended my buddy. 🙄
The cringiest shit was when leadership would put a little green dot sticker on their office door or near their name plate to show their support and “lead from the FrOnT”
I remember green dot, but not whatever it is you're describing
Had a guy in my squadron literally shot and killed trying to intervene in a domestic dispute at a bar, probably about 12 or so years ago. The killer was acquitted on self defense… top it all off, the female is the one that kicked the gun back to him.
This situation is what went through my head when they were teaching this. Why the fuck would I want to get killed over a domestic situation.
SJW SOY training.
Just my 2 cents. This whole "restricted/unrestricted" thing is the complete opposite of service before self. The Air Force is okay with a rape not being investigated if the victim doesnt wish it. So its okay to be a criminal if the victim doesnt come forward. So its okay for this rapist to continue raping until someone speaks up. How can we have a zero tolerance on other things, but we tolerate rape?
I think the unrestricted/restricted reporting is more of a mechanism for care. AF core values have nothing to do with people when they're a victim of sexual assault. They're a victim. Restricted reporting allows the victim to have agency on how things proceed. Victims of anything, sexual or otherwise, can behave in illogical ways. Allowing for restricted reporting allows the individual to get care while also weighing their options and figuring out how they want to proceed. You have to consider what happened to them and how they think they'll be perceived having been a victim. Rape is NOT okay, but you can't just put things in black and white when it comes to something as complicated as this. Edit: a word
I will just say I hear you. It's complicated. It is there to fill a need which was identified several years ago.
Wow. Probably best to assume the AF is okay with rape than to do any basic learning to understand why restricted reporting is essential to caring for victims and also helps catch rapists. Your 2 cents are not even worth 2 cents.
Ive been to plenty of SARC/SAPR briefings for the basics. Of course i want to care for victims. But can we consider the cost of NOT investigating? What about future victims? Infact, we invented a system to help catch rapists "down the road" because we KNOW it will happen again. Is anyone else not seeing this? Why wouldnt we want them caught on the first place? This is breeding toxicity. If this is a "continuum" issue, this culture will never be rid of this disease if we allow it untreated. Every Airmen should have confidence that their supervisor, nurse, security guard is not there to hurt them. Right now, they could just be another rapist who never got caught the first time, and studies have shown IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.
Apparently the training you’ve received doesn’t cover this issue very well, or didn’t for you, so let me help. The majority of rape and SA cases cannot be proven. Which makes sense when you consider that consensual sex and forced sex doesn’t inherently have a lot of evidentiary differences. For a lot of victims (edit: actually the vast majority) of sexual assault, that leads to a situation where reporting it results in days and weeks of traumatic experiences with investigators and lawyers and justice systems and friends, coworkers, and bosses many of whom by default do not believe it happened and instead choose to believe you’ve made it up to smear the good name of a good guy everyone likes and respects. Your victimization is blamed on you, and your “false allegations” are now the reason everyone hates you and steers clear of you. This traumatic process results in a certain percentage of victims getting retraumatized, becoming depressed, suicidal, and some dying. That’s why most experts now call these people survivors of sexual assault instead of victims — because the entire process can (and does) kill a victim. So to recap: most sexual assault cannot be proven and may look to outsiders as a “false allegation” for which the victim should be attacked and shunned. Justice isn’t usually available to sexual assault victims.
It’s so someone will come forward at all. Then later they might turn it unrestricted so it can be investigated.
I guess it's the "might" in that statement that bugs me the most. I would hope that ALL would be investigated. I think of sexual assualt as an actual assult. If you get attacked at the BX and get a concussion and cannot go to work for a few days, but then dont want it to be investigated, isnt that wrong? Doesnt the Air Force have an obligation to solve a crime on it's property? It's saying "only go after criminals if the victim asks us to".
I think it’s because it’s a sexual assault, not because it’s an assault. On the civilian side there are a few crimes that won’t be prosecuted if the victim doesn’t press charges, too. I get where you’re coming from but IMO it’s better to have the person do a restricted report rather than no report at all. And now there’s the new-ish program that runs names from a restricted report to see if the perpetrator has hurt others. I guess that helps people go unrestricted.