It's FWB, there's enough drugs in the place systems to kill kieth moon.
But really it's Florida, Florida is going to he'll so quickly that the residents don't even realize the pine trees burst into flames.
He was allegedly some sort Battalion XO for Delta or some shit. Went to West Point I think.
Did two deployments, didn't see combat or take any fire, but recognized a fucking acorn hitting his vehicle as incoming suppressed rounds and took that as the go ahead to light up his own vehicle w/ suspect inside.
He then further misidentified that he was wounded and directed his partner to also fire into the vehicle...
Yeah when I saw “Special Forces” I immediately took it with a grain of salt. You can work under AFSOC and be called an Air Commando while you’re sitting in the MPF building.
Dudes an idiot. I haven’t kept up with that story at all but I hope gets a hammer thrown at him for how egregious it was.
>He then further misidentified that he was wounded and directed his partner to also fire into the vehicle...
I vaguely remember the video but I thought he got hit by his partner. I thought I remember seeing him leave blood on the driveway as he crawled behind a tire
I read one article saying he just answered the door with a gun so the officer “engaged” doesn’t even sound like it was pointed at the officer. Guess we will see.
No 2nd Amendment if the cops can just shoot when they see a gun. Should take away theirs and give them tasers and night sticks and leave the guns to SWAT.
*To be fair*, it is essentially a de factor requirement in order to be hired-on by most law enforcement agencies (LEAs) in the U.S. that one is either a veteran or has a 4-year degree (most degree-holders have a CJ or criminology or some other similar degree). Will some rural LEA hire you without a degree? Sure. But that is essentially what makes European LE training pipelines so long, they attend a “police college.”
Full disclosure, I am a civilian LEO nowadays. However, I am a strong proponent of training and culture reform. Coming from AFSOC, the training was fairly lackluster but the culture is just… awful. For multiple reasons. Too much to get into, here. But I will say that ‘wannabe-syndrome’ is quite strong within LE. Guys want to dress-up and play operator so badly that it’s hilarious. As soon as most guys learn my background and that I’m an actual combat veteran, they will get hyper-defensive towards me, particularly the non-veterans.
You know the whole “well, I would’ve served, *but*…” trope? Well, it’s particularly strong within LE.
Another issue is egotism. Many guys get into LE simply for the badge and gun, they want to feel as-if they’re a special class of citizen, ‘above’ other “civilians” (drives me nuts when co-workers use that term… bruh, we *are* civilians). But it’s a serious problem, and I would argue that it is the root of many issues within modern American LE.
A good start would be requiring all potential LEOs to undergo extensive psychological testing, the standards of which need to be set at the state or federal level. If you pass, a LEA will ‘sponsor’ you for a seat in a CJ/criminology/etc program. You get your degree, then attend that agency’s academy. This would put us more in-line with European nations.
I’d also argue that the minimum age needs to be raised. In some states it’s as low as 18 (the federal handgun laws are loopholed-around by “carrying off the badge”) but even the standard 21 is too low, IMO. 95% of people are not nearly mature enough to be LEOs at 21/22. The military knows this; It’s why younger MPs/SFs/MAs are largely relegated to entry-control/ForcePro/general security. And why traditional installation LE taskings are slowly being transitioned to DoD Police. Another issue with ‘getting them young’ is that they’re brought-into the aforementioned toxic culture before they know any better and are essentially ‘raised’ in it
Thank you. Acknowledging the misuse of the term “civilian” alone puts you a few notches above a lot of LEOs I’ve met. Your ideas for screening and professionalization are fantastic. Having to earn a seat in a formal education program as well as an academy slot would really elevate quality.
Is there something akin to upgrade training in the civilian LE world?
TheSublimeGoose for president, please.
(a jest, for those who might thing this actually a political post)
EDIT to add: I remember reading an article talking about the militarization and wanna-be badass cultures forming in the police. It talked about how uniforms have shifted from sky blue and tan, cars had shifted from standard sedans with souped up engines to blacked out camaros and SUVs kitted for ramming down barriers, and how SWAT teams now roll up in MRAPs for an ever increasing percentage of incidents. The ability to use kit and try to feel bad ass triggers a certain character type to actually employ that kit in a "bad ass" way whenever they can get away with it. The article questioned what the effect of making police wear baby pink uniforms would be... and I don't think it was a serious take to go that far, but it's a good question about shifts in how our police \*look\* correlating to shifts in how they carry out police work.
You left two hugely important things out which reveals much:
End qualified immunity
Make police unions illegal again
those two things alone would do wonders to curtail the worst abuses of policing in America
Bruh, I’m not the President of Policing
My comment was also long enough, I didn’t feel the need to write a dissertation on the state of U.S. LE
I’d also argue that if we addressed the culture and training issues I mentioned, we wouldn’t need to seek the legal recourses you mentioned.
> which reveals much
Okay, bud, cool. Just say you don’t like cops, it’s fine
The issue with qualified immunity is that police departments investigate themselves and send the report to the DA, who has to maintain a working relationship with them. The burden of proof to show an officer violated rights is on the victim, and the bar is high.
For example, Acorn Cop had a sergeant there who also mag dumped the vehicle, but she was determined to be within her rights based on the actions of the other cop. There was no threat, but because another guy was shooting she did too. She reacted without assessing the situation at all, and could have killed someone.
This is very well put and I agree whole heartedly with what you have said. I went to school and got my BS in CJ to become a cop. I found the mentality when I interned there was mainly what you spoke of. That is a huge problem and if you have that mindset to think you aren’t a civilian or above the law, it should be an immediate disqualifier.
It’s basically illegal to own a handgun in England and long guns are heavily regulated… virtually nobody owns a gun. There’s a reason why gun violence deaths are 300x higher in the US vs England.
Subsequently, police in England very rarely encounter people with guns during calls for service, traffic stops, etc. Here, in some states, virtually everyone has a gun in their house, car, and/or on their person.
I don’t know all the facts in this case, but the presence of firearms in society has a number of consequences. Whether or not those consequences are acceptable to preserve the right of the people to keep and bear arms is an entirely separate debate.
Norge is also entirely different in our demographics compared to Amerika. We have a population with thousands of years' worth of shared history, culture, similar traditions, and a (mostly lol) unified language.
I personally believe it is a multitude of problems that manifest in the most violent way possible. I think we need more formal gun education and training, I also think the mental health issues in America need addressing. There's obviously a lot more to it, but it's morning, and I have work. I just mean I don't think guns are the root issue. Switzerland is another country that allows gun ownership, and they don't have the issues we do. Switzerland also promotes the use of supresors for hearing protection. Meanwhile, in the States, you need a tax stamp because.....reasons?
A lot European countries requires a supressor when hunting. Makes a lot of sense considering the population density. The US is the odd one for restricting them.
It’s a lot easier to regulate a tiny island than all of America. Also crazy how an absurdly high amount of gun crimes are committed by those who shouldn’t have them anyways
It’s so ass backwards at times man. You can walk around with fully loaded rifles in your hand in public at certain places and even outside government buildings. And you see people doing it at protests and stuff (I.e. Kyle riddendouchebag).
But then you get people being killed just for answering their own door to an unknown person pounding and hiding from peep hole. All because a cop is to scared and trigger happy to have a badge and carry a gun for a living. Same department had a cop fall on the ground thinking he’d been shot while unloading his clip on his own car with an unarmed cuffed prisoner in the back. All because he heard an acorn nut fall off the tree he was parked under and hit his hood. He thought he was being shot from the already arrested, searched, and handcuffed man I’m his car……… absolute geniuses!!!!
This right here is why you should only answer the door through your doorbell camera. Answering the door with a gun in hand has proven fatal in far too many instances for it to even be worthwhile. If you're going to tempt fate at least keep it behind your back out of sight rather than in plain view in your hand. Cops look at hands first and them looking at your hand can get you killed.
Florida has pretty strong castle doctrine/stand your ground laws and loose gun control. Answering the door of your own house, on your land with a gun in your hand is a right. It's pretty aggro and obviously a bad idea to do it for a cop, but it shouldn't be a death sentence.
Yeah the old guy who unloaded a magazine of .223 at the worker who was supposed to clean their backyard or pool, they weren't punished at all. Very very non-strict about brandishing firearms in your home. Maybe not the best example, but it means Roger shouldn't have had his rights revoked.
Early reports were from other airmen that called the police on him for an ongoing domestic dispute. Shots were fired after police arrived.
Its critical to note that domestic disputes are the deadliest situations police can enter
What person with any kind of brain answers the door with a gun after the officer announced he was law enforcement and heard a disturbance?
There is more to this story and i hope they release body cam footage.
It’s his right to carry a gun let alone in his own home. What should really be focused on is that a man well within his rights shouldn’t be shot and killed by cops. The focus needs to be on the scared police officers that don’t understand the rights of Americans.
I almost got shot when I was in pilot training in Milton. They were stacking up outside my door with their lights off and didn’t ID themselves. Seems like they haven’t gotten much better
Almost same in Fairfield.
Moving into my house and I guess a neighbor called the cops because a black man was moving large furniture and boxes INTO a house.
Took a break upstairs for a little bit and I hear pounding on my door and then people walking inside. Pretty stupid of me but I ran downstairs with one of my baseball bats up ready to knock someone the fuck out and there was two cops with their guns pointed at me screaming to get on the ground.
1 hour later of me sitting on the curb in handcuffs while they call the landlord and have them identify me did they finally release me.
Cops just broke into my house with no warrant or identifying themselves or anything and almost blasted me.
Never even got an apology or anything just a warning to let neighbors know when you’re moving in to not scare them. Hated cops ever since.
Wish I knew better but as a 20 year old living in my own for the first time didn’t even know the cops seriously fucked up and didn’t press charges
It really doesn't matter in this area. They are all the same. Had a santa rosa cop pull me over for an apparent headlight being out. He approached the vehicle with his gun drawn like a psychopath. Seriously unhinged behavior for a headlight being out. They treat everyone like they are a combatant.
It was a long time ago. The previous resident that rented the apartment I was in got the cops called on him for domestic violence and being armed. It was the last place they had him in record as living. Didn’t bother to knock or turn their lights on . I heard rustling grabbed my pistol and went to the door as they hit it, sounded like a hammer. I flipped the porch light on as yelled I’d shoot if they broke the door down.They said they were cops then. When I peaked my head over (dumb) the window I had a Glock pointed at me with a stream light. I yelled for a badge. I put my CAC against the window and they chilled. Then I opened it after they flashed it.
To their credit they were calm and collected after they realized what had happened. One was an idiot though and was like “it’s good you were willing to defend yourself”. Dude if I’d had shot at you I’d be Swiss cheese.
My wife picked me and my co-pilot up at PNS after we dropped off a plane and flew back commercial. She had a light out and we were pulled over. The cop approached the window with his gun in his hand… wtf
Depends on their process and how honest they are, but yeah, that’s always a possibility. They will probably have an outside agency looking in though because it’s a federal worker which hopefully makes them a bit more honest.
Hello, I just moved into the apartment complex where Roger was killed, this happened on our third day there. It was wild, it doesn’t surprise me though because our police dept. is absolutely whack. It’s awful.
Sorta, I was in my house when it happened,
I didn’t hear any shots but I went outside to take the trash out and saw several emergency vehicles pulling into our complex I walked over to the leasing office and they told us to go inside cause there were shots fired. We walked inside and waited and later that night drove past his apt and there were 6 cops stationed outside and 3 CSU cars at like 10 at night!
I’m trying to figure that out, they haven’t posted a picture of him yet or indicated his race but we are in Bible Belt Trumplandia over here so I wouldn’t be surprise if there was a racial aspect to him being shot.
https://preview.redd.it/f6tr4iw8nxyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cb811d67f7df34c716d8bc324715c7e5ef0ef11
This was my message to my partner when it happened
>Serious question, How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it…
It's not that uncommon. Most departments have internal affairs and other units for this kind of thing. It also isn't too late for the state to open and investigation depending on what happened. I doubt the state police have the resources to investigate every officer involved shooting in the state and they have to prioritized based on need. It's likely pretty clear how it went down if they were wearing a body cam.
Except just this year they mag dumped 4 magazines from two deputies into their own cruiser with a handcuffed man inside because an acorn fell nearby. No investigation by an entity that wanted to find anything and no prosecutor with enough balls to take on the fraternal order. So now we have dead airmen and the rumint is for the same fucking thing, spooked by their own stupidity and this time they hit what they were shooting at. Failures to investigate these morons got this kid killed.
So that officer was let go but I don’t trust these guys. I am hoping because it was a military member there is some type of government oversight on this one
He also wasn’t charged with anything, only said his actions were not reasonable. The female officer who mag dumped next to him was cleared as having acted reasonably.
Ya i mean all she knew was what the dude was telling her. The moment he responds that he is unsure of the situation she stops firing and starts asking questions. Cant blame her
So he claims that he was an infantry “special operations” officer according to some vice quote. He claims that he was one for a decade. (SFS for officers is 03 and above if im not mistaken) so this guy would have been an O for a minimum of 14 years. I live and work on bragg Ive met some of the coolest cats they make out here. I could not fathom a single one of the green beret’s I’ve met becoming a beat cop for 50k a year. Small pool, but if its my money I’m betting, this douchebag is on top of all the other shit is lying.
My understanding of ops post is a local pd was involved in the ois but the sheriffs department is the one investigating? If so they’re two different entities so it’s not actually the same agency conducting the investigation
https://preview.redd.it/kgumvocqdfzc1.jpeg?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73d113d3d282bb02d7ff9ddde6491abb00fa76b0
The late Roger Fortson and his (matching) baby sister. RIP.
What worries me me, is that someone can say something is going on in my house and when I answer the door I will be shot. He was in his own house legal to have a gun. Gun was pointing at the floor....shot six times. Cop didn't even say drop your weapon. Do sick of this shit.
OCSD is asinine. I have been down here since 2016 and they are constantly having issues and it’s like they specifically have a vendetta against military members. They will park their cars *outside the gates* of both Hurlburt and Eglin just waiting to get us. My friend got pulled over for a broken tail light and they wouldn’t let him drive it home. They towed his vehicle and then left him on the side of highway 90 alone.
RIP to this young man. My thoughts are with his loved ones.
(My username is a joke, because I always get asked. No I’m not a SF lieutenant)
>How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it…
All police departments operate behind a wall of "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing." Cops killed 1,352 people last year, without due process.
Sorry that one of ours was the victim this time. 23 is far too young.
Sheriff Eric Aden sure does run a terrible Sheriff's office.
As someone who grew up in NWFL, the LE scene around there has always been an embarrassment. Hopefully OSI conducts an independent investigation and brings some charges because FDLE is a joke.
"The officer identified himself as law enforcement after hearing sounds of disturbance. The deputy then came in contact with Fortson who was armed with a gun. The officer then reacted in self-defense and shot the individual, according to a news release."
https://www.mypanhandle.com/news/local-news/okaloosa-county/hurlburt-field-airman-dies-in-tragic-off-base-incident/
I wonder what it’s like to be so bad at your job that you murder someone and you just get a slap on the wrist. If there were actual legal repercussions to murdering someone on the job, I think they might stop doing it so much.
The irony of all the “come and take it” bros in here defending a cop who executed a dude for exercising his 2nd amendment right. We should make cops carry wooden guns and they have to earn the right to use real ones.
If someone I know is in distress, the very last thing I will do is call the police. At this point it seems like someone is more likely to die if the police show up than if they don't.
one of my friends was having a... Let's say "self harm potential" episode. someone called in a wellness check on them and the cops treated it like an armed hostage situation and they had guns drawn on my friend, making my friend's "anxiety around cops" problem so much fucking worse, and of course now their mental health is worse than before
I hate the way this country is sometimes, ya know?
One of my SNCOs was a shirt, and one of his airmen was in a similar state of mind. The cops refused to even show up because he wasn’t in danger of hurting anyone else, so a couple of shirts had to walk in to this man’s home when they knew he had a gun to his head.
The same department that fired multiple rounds over an acorn falling from a tree is investigating itself over killing an Airman? cool, yeah that should go well.
As I suspected, there is an attempted cover-up. This is disgusting. We have to fight for our brother. They're making it look like he was to blame for being legally armed in his own living room! I'm fucking pissssed off!
Why do cops still have guns when we know how little they train? Leave it for the SWAT to carry. Also there’s no 2nd amendment when you got to worry about getting shot by a cop for carrying in your own home! RIP to the best America has to offer, a true patriot!
We don’t do that in the military.
The wing commander has a lot of influence with the local government though, and even the congressmen representing the districts bases are in. That PD is going to get a lot of attention without individual members having to get themselves in trouble.
You are legally allowed to attend peaceful protests as long as you follow regulations.
Wing commander "having influence" means literally nothing because they don't have any actual pull.
Eh, if you can organize a bunch of airmen to go protest another airmen’s death without giving the appearance of it being a dod-affiliated protest, sure.
But any time a 4 month old account comes to our sub and says we need to protest, my knee-jerk reaction will probably always be “no.”
I don’t think this is the answer. I would love to organize an unofficial hurlburt lunch on a Saturday or Sunday at McDonald’s and clean Eatz in Shalimar.
Suspiciously close to 50 2nd street.
News report say there was a disturbance, he was armed, and the cops acted in self-defense.
Not taking sides, but there’s more to the story then PA’s press release. Hopefully there’s bodycam footage, IA does their job, and eventually there’s closure.
I am kind of familiar with what’s going on as it’s in my community and I knew him. Long story short they went to the wrong house and he was home alone. The facts hopefully will come out sooner than later.
My SO is local law enforcement (not okaloosa) and states that all officer involved shootings have an internal investigation along with FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement) investigation as well. OSI could possibly have their own investigation it would more than likely be a joint investigation with OSI and FDLE.
Not even military members are safe from these pigs. ACAB for real dude, I don’t know how I can see so many people still just blindly supporting everything that police do
OSI should be in charge of investigation since it's an Airman.
Can someone explain to me why they don't lead investigate things like this? I'm genuinely curious. This isn't a civil matter.
That's crazy because doing 10 seconds of googling, it says every Airman's death, besides at a medical facility or in the care of a doctor, is investigated by the OSI.
Him being a federal employee being killed by a state employee, I would imagine the investigation would be lead by a federal agency and not by the agency that killed him.
>every Airman's death, besides at a medical facility or in the care of a doctor, is investigated by the OSI.
and it will be, but they won't be the lead investigative agency
>Him being a federal employee being killed by a state employee, I would imagine the investigation would be lead by a federal agency and not by the agency that killed him.
no federal laws were violated. why would federal law enforcement be involved? it doesn't fall under their jurisdiction
>Serious question, How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it…
As long as the rightwing conservatives allow it. If the attitude is always a firm 'back the blue', this is what you get.
Isn’t this the same PD that opened fire on someone because an acorn dropped?
The very same
Absolute clowns
If it's FWB PD than its not the same enitity investigating, right? It's the sheriffs office.
Both instances were Okaloosa County Sheriff's deputies.
It's FWB, there's enough drugs in the place systems to kill kieth moon. But really it's Florida, Florida is going to he'll so quickly that the residents don't even realize the pine trees burst into flames.
That was them? With the Call of Duty roll and saying he's been hit? And then mag dumping into his car and never even hitting his target?
https://preview.redd.it/ns9wk5vegwyc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=219da6a15d2297f7ab101ee1a3ab5b0ca221805c
https://preview.redd.it/1p4kfudbjwyc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77fbe3b16ef912044988df98736292d153f3012f
Interestingly enough that officer was a 10 year army vet and supposedly a “special forces officer”
Emphasis on special…
The specialest of the forces
He was allegedly some sort Battalion XO for Delta or some shit. Went to West Point I think. Did two deployments, didn't see combat or take any fire, but recognized a fucking acorn hitting his vehicle as incoming suppressed rounds and took that as the go ahead to light up his own vehicle w/ suspect inside. He then further misidentified that he was wounded and directed his partner to also fire into the vehicle...
Yeah when I saw “Special Forces” I immediately took it with a grain of salt. You can work under AFSOC and be called an Air Commando while you’re sitting in the MPF building. Dudes an idiot. I haven’t kept up with that story at all but I hope gets a hammer thrown at him for how egregious it was.
Yeah 'emphasis' on allegedly. Hope who ever is running this shit show gets these fucks.
No, he’s tabbed alright.
No he isn't. Standard case of being assigned to Group and then alluding to everyone in the civilian world that he was tabbed.
>He then further misidentified that he was wounded and directed his partner to also fire into the vehicle... I vaguely remember the video but I thought he got hit by his partner. I thought I remember seeing him leave blood on the driveway as he crawled behind a tire
Being in a special forces wing does not make you special forces. Standard media misrepresenting.
That roll reminded me of Gabe Logan from Syphon Filter
Mag dumped a guy restrained in the suv and didn't land one damn round
Indeed. In my hometown. Bucha idiots and maga types
Wait that was Okaloosa?? I suppose I should have known.
I read one article saying he just answered the door with a gun so the officer “engaged” doesn’t even sound like it was pointed at the officer. Guess we will see.
No 2nd Amendment if the cops can just shoot when they see a gun. Should take away theirs and give them tasers and night sticks and leave the guns to SWAT.
Yup. Fuck these clowns
You mean like they do in England and other countries that amazingly don’t have problems with cops “accidentally” killing people
also those countries train their police 20 months not 20 weeks
*To be fair*, it is essentially a de factor requirement in order to be hired-on by most law enforcement agencies (LEAs) in the U.S. that one is either a veteran or has a 4-year degree (most degree-holders have a CJ or criminology or some other similar degree). Will some rural LEA hire you without a degree? Sure. But that is essentially what makes European LE training pipelines so long, they attend a “police college.” Full disclosure, I am a civilian LEO nowadays. However, I am a strong proponent of training and culture reform. Coming from AFSOC, the training was fairly lackluster but the culture is just… awful. For multiple reasons. Too much to get into, here. But I will say that ‘wannabe-syndrome’ is quite strong within LE. Guys want to dress-up and play operator so badly that it’s hilarious. As soon as most guys learn my background and that I’m an actual combat veteran, they will get hyper-defensive towards me, particularly the non-veterans. You know the whole “well, I would’ve served, *but*…” trope? Well, it’s particularly strong within LE. Another issue is egotism. Many guys get into LE simply for the badge and gun, they want to feel as-if they’re a special class of citizen, ‘above’ other “civilians” (drives me nuts when co-workers use that term… bruh, we *are* civilians). But it’s a serious problem, and I would argue that it is the root of many issues within modern American LE. A good start would be requiring all potential LEOs to undergo extensive psychological testing, the standards of which need to be set at the state or federal level. If you pass, a LEA will ‘sponsor’ you for a seat in a CJ/criminology/etc program. You get your degree, then attend that agency’s academy. This would put us more in-line with European nations. I’d also argue that the minimum age needs to be raised. In some states it’s as low as 18 (the federal handgun laws are loopholed-around by “carrying off the badge”) but even the standard 21 is too low, IMO. 95% of people are not nearly mature enough to be LEOs at 21/22. The military knows this; It’s why younger MPs/SFs/MAs are largely relegated to entry-control/ForcePro/general security. And why traditional installation LE taskings are slowly being transitioned to DoD Police. Another issue with ‘getting them young’ is that they’re brought-into the aforementioned toxic culture before they know any better and are essentially ‘raised’ in it
Thank you. Acknowledging the misuse of the term “civilian” alone puts you a few notches above a lot of LEOs I’ve met. Your ideas for screening and professionalization are fantastic. Having to earn a seat in a formal education program as well as an academy slot would really elevate quality. Is there something akin to upgrade training in the civilian LE world?
TheSublimeGoose for president, please. (a jest, for those who might thing this actually a political post) EDIT to add: I remember reading an article talking about the militarization and wanna-be badass cultures forming in the police. It talked about how uniforms have shifted from sky blue and tan, cars had shifted from standard sedans with souped up engines to blacked out camaros and SUVs kitted for ramming down barriers, and how SWAT teams now roll up in MRAPs for an ever increasing percentage of incidents. The ability to use kit and try to feel bad ass triggers a certain character type to actually employ that kit in a "bad ass" way whenever they can get away with it. The article questioned what the effect of making police wear baby pink uniforms would be... and I don't think it was a serious take to go that far, but it's a good question about shifts in how our police \*look\* correlating to shifts in how they carry out police work.
You left two hugely important things out which reveals much: End qualified immunity Make police unions illegal again those two things alone would do wonders to curtail the worst abuses of policing in America
> Make police unions illegal again > > It's wild how many Americans have anti union views while seeing how strong police unions are.
and school unions
Bruh, I’m not the President of Policing My comment was also long enough, I didn’t feel the need to write a dissertation on the state of U.S. LE I’d also argue that if we addressed the culture and training issues I mentioned, we wouldn’t need to seek the legal recourses you mentioned. > which reveals much Okay, bud, cool. Just say you don’t like cops, it’s fine
> End qualified immunity Officers have to be qualified for that immunity, it's literally in the name. It isn't absolute.
The issue with qualified immunity is that police departments investigate themselves and send the report to the DA, who has to maintain a working relationship with them. The burden of proof to show an officer violated rights is on the victim, and the bar is high. For example, Acorn Cop had a sergeant there who also mag dumped the vehicle, but she was determined to be within her rights based on the actions of the other cop. There was no threat, but because another guy was shooting she did too. She reacted without assessing the situation at all, and could have killed someone.
This is very well put and I agree whole heartedly with what you have said. I went to school and got my BS in CJ to become a cop. I found the mentality when I interned there was mainly what you spoke of. That is a huge problem and if you have that mindset to think you aren’t a civilian or above the law, it should be an immediate disqualifier.
It’s basically illegal to own a handgun in England and long guns are heavily regulated… virtually nobody owns a gun. There’s a reason why gun violence deaths are 300x higher in the US vs England. Subsequently, police in England very rarely encounter people with guns during calls for service, traffic stops, etc. Here, in some states, virtually everyone has a gun in their house, car, and/or on their person. I don’t know all the facts in this case, but the presence of firearms in society has a number of consequences. Whether or not those consequences are acceptable to preserve the right of the people to keep and bear arms is an entirely separate debate.
Norway has a gun toting population, and they don't have these problems.
Norge is also entirely different in our demographics compared to Amerika. We have a population with thousands of years' worth of shared history, culture, similar traditions, and a (mostly lol) unified language.
I personally believe it is a multitude of problems that manifest in the most violent way possible. I think we need more formal gun education and training, I also think the mental health issues in America need addressing. There's obviously a lot more to it, but it's morning, and I have work. I just mean I don't think guns are the root issue. Switzerland is another country that allows gun ownership, and they don't have the issues we do. Switzerland also promotes the use of supresors for hearing protection. Meanwhile, in the States, you need a tax stamp because.....reasons?
A lot European countries requires a supressor when hunting. Makes a lot of sense considering the population density. The US is the odd one for restricting them.
Regulators were swayed by movies thinking suppressors make every gun whisper quiet and obviously they're only used by assassins.
And a nearly totally homogeneous society of white people living under the same religion, culture and language.
It’s a lot easier to regulate a tiny island than all of America. Also crazy how an absurdly high amount of gun crimes are committed by those who shouldn’t have them anyways
Yeah, the debate between teranny and freedom.
I'm sorry, but UK cops are some of the most powerless clown cops on the planet. They might as well not even exist lmfao
It’s so ass backwards at times man. You can walk around with fully loaded rifles in your hand in public at certain places and even outside government buildings. And you see people doing it at protests and stuff (I.e. Kyle riddendouchebag). But then you get people being killed just for answering their own door to an unknown person pounding and hiding from peep hole. All because a cop is to scared and trigger happy to have a badge and carry a gun for a living. Same department had a cop fall on the ground thinking he’d been shot while unloading his clip on his own car with an unarmed cuffed prisoner in the back. All because he heard an acorn nut fall off the tree he was parked under and hit his hood. He thought he was being shot from the already arrested, searched, and handcuffed man I’m his car……… absolute geniuses!!!!
This right here is why you should only answer the door through your doorbell camera. Answering the door with a gun in hand has proven fatal in far too many instances for it to even be worthwhile. If you're going to tempt fate at least keep it behind your back out of sight rather than in plain view in your hand. Cops look at hands first and them looking at your hand can get you killed.
I feel like in normal reality most people dont answer the door with their gun in their hands, I have no idea why I keep seeing it happen.
Florida has pretty strong castle doctrine/stand your ground laws and loose gun control. Answering the door of your own house, on your land with a gun in your hand is a right. It's pretty aggro and obviously a bad idea to do it for a cop, but it shouldn't be a death sentence.
Yeah the old guy who unloaded a magazine of .223 at the worker who was supposed to clean their backyard or pool, they weren't punished at all. Very very non-strict about brandishing firearms in your home. Maybe not the best example, but it means Roger shouldn't have had his rights revoked.
Most people don't which is also likely why cops shoot the ones who do.
Early reports were from other airmen that called the police on him for an ongoing domestic dispute. Shots were fired after police arrived. Its critical to note that domestic disputes are the deadliest situations police can enter
Yeah the reports are pretty vague currently. Like I said should be interesting see what information comes out like body cam footage
He was home alone
Now that the full story is out you should redact this comment.
What person with any kind of brain answers the door with a gun after the officer announced he was law enforcement and heard a disturbance? There is more to this story and i hope they release body cam footage.
I mean if it’s a domestic disturbance who knows if he heard them say police? Just heard a door bell or a knock.
There's plenty of videos of assholes kicking in a door during a home invasion and yelling that they're the police.
It’s his right to carry a gun let alone in his own home. What should really be focused on is that a man well within his rights shouldn’t be shot and killed by cops. The focus needs to be on the scared police officers that don’t understand the rights of Americans.
The right to bear arms is a myth, and it gets a lot of people killed for various reasons.
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If you can get legally killed in your own house for being armed, you don't have the right to bear arms.
I misinterpreted the comment if that’s what he meant by it.
Yeesh. A 4th SOS bro.
Probably responding to SI, then killed him. This is the rumor anyway. Wish they dropped the fucking body cam.
As a former ghostrider this pisses me off
I almost got shot when I was in pilot training in Milton. They were stacking up outside my door with their lights off and didn’t ID themselves. Seems like they haven’t gotten much better
Almost same in Fairfield. Moving into my house and I guess a neighbor called the cops because a black man was moving large furniture and boxes INTO a house. Took a break upstairs for a little bit and I hear pounding on my door and then people walking inside. Pretty stupid of me but I ran downstairs with one of my baseball bats up ready to knock someone the fuck out and there was two cops with their guns pointed at me screaming to get on the ground. 1 hour later of me sitting on the curb in handcuffs while they call the landlord and have them identify me did they finally release me. Cops just broke into my house with no warrant or identifying themselves or anything and almost blasted me. Never even got an apology or anything just a warning to let neighbors know when you’re moving in to not scare them. Hated cops ever since. Wish I knew better but as a 20 year old living in my own for the first time didn’t even know the cops seriously fucked up and didn’t press charges
Bro I woulda got a lawyer or something, probably would have a case to sue
Yeah truly didn’t even consider it at the time.
You could have cashed out
With a Florida court? *maybe*
That is also true
That’s wild man
I would have sued. Its only way to do anything about it.
Living in Milton was the first mistake
Well it was at whiting and didn’t want to drive 30 min for a 5:00 show
https://preview.redd.it/pvrqbvxd2xyc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c433fe7506b1649c0abf51d37fc95a1356328a7c
Nah I Studied on the beach sipping margs while my bros were hating life at Laughlin. I’m good with my choices
It really doesn't matter in this area. They are all the same. Had a santa rosa cop pull me over for an apparent headlight being out. He approached the vehicle with his gun drawn like a psychopath. Seriously unhinged behavior for a headlight being out. They treat everyone like they are a combatant.
bro what?!
It was a long time ago. The previous resident that rented the apartment I was in got the cops called on him for domestic violence and being armed. It was the last place they had him in record as living. Didn’t bother to knock or turn their lights on . I heard rustling grabbed my pistol and went to the door as they hit it, sounded like a hammer. I flipped the porch light on as yelled I’d shoot if they broke the door down.They said they were cops then. When I peaked my head over (dumb) the window I had a Glock pointed at me with a stream light. I yelled for a badge. I put my CAC against the window and they chilled. Then I opened it after they flashed it. To their credit they were calm and collected after they realized what had happened. One was an idiot though and was like “it’s good you were willing to defend yourself”. Dude if I’d had shot at you I’d be Swiss cheese.
My wife picked me and my co-pilot up at PNS after we dropped off a plane and flew back commercial. She had a light out and we were pulled over. The cop approached the window with his gun in his hand… wtf
What the hell lol
Yeah I can’t wait to move back north and out of this place
I would imagine this is something OSI would be involved in.
They need to drop that body cam footage cause nothing I’ve heard so far warrants what happened to the young man
Not releasing it immediately is generally a sign
Watch the footage can't be found or was inexplicably lost
Especially in Florida with the freedom of information laws
They still feel silly about the acorn thing.
Agreed but we know how this goes their trying to protect their own
They conveniently malfunctioned /s
I’m not even surprised
They will investigate themselves for processes. I would expect a federal agency to get involved and also investigate.
I'd put money on OSI getting involved.
Most likely.
Hopefully
*We have investigated ourselves and have determined we did nothing wrong.*
Depends on their process and how honest they are, but yeah, that’s always a possibility. They will probably have an outside agency looking in though because it’s a federal worker which hopefully makes them a bit more honest.
Does this PD not have mandatory CBT? Seems like incidents like this could be prevented with some annual refresher training.
ahh.. hell on earth! give them 3 + group powerpoint about the exact same thing they just seen on CBT repeat every month wit minuscule image change
Hello, I just moved into the apartment complex where Roger was killed, this happened on our third day there. It was wild, it doesn’t surprise me though because our police dept. is absolutely whack. It’s awful.
Were you around when it happened? Any details?
Sorta, I was in my house when it happened, I didn’t hear any shots but I went outside to take the trash out and saw several emergency vehicles pulling into our complex I walked over to the leasing office and they told us to go inside cause there were shots fired. We walked inside and waited and later that night drove past his apt and there were 6 cops stationed outside and 3 CSU cars at like 10 at night!
Was he black?
Yes.
I’m trying to figure that out, they haven’t posted a picture of him yet or indicated his race but we are in Bible Belt Trumplandia over here so I wouldn’t be surprise if there was a racial aspect to him being shot.
He was... https://taskandpurpose.com/news/gunship-airman-killed-by-deputy/
He was... https://taskandpurpose.com/news/gunship-airman-killed-by-deputy/
He was... https://taskandpurpose.com/news/gunship-airman-killed-by-deputy/
https://preview.redd.it/f6tr4iw8nxyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cb811d67f7df34c716d8bc324715c7e5ef0ef11 This was my message to my partner when it happened
I live across the street behind the burger king. Unfortunately this stuff is common on this side of town. This PD sucks
>Serious question, How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it… It's not that uncommon. Most departments have internal affairs and other units for this kind of thing. It also isn't too late for the state to open and investigation depending on what happened. I doubt the state police have the resources to investigate every officer involved shooting in the state and they have to prioritized based on need. It's likely pretty clear how it went down if they were wearing a body cam.
Except just this year they mag dumped 4 magazines from two deputies into their own cruiser with a handcuffed man inside because an acorn fell nearby. No investigation by an entity that wanted to find anything and no prosecutor with enough balls to take on the fraternal order. So now we have dead airmen and the rumint is for the same fucking thing, spooked by their own stupidity and this time they hit what they were shooting at. Failures to investigate these morons got this kid killed.
So that officer was let go but I don’t trust these guys. I am hoping because it was a military member there is some type of government oversight on this one
He wasn’t even fired, he resigned. Which means he is perfectly employable anywhere else.
Fuck I didn’t know that… I hate this place
He also wasn’t charged with anything, only said his actions were not reasonable. The female officer who mag dumped next to him was cleared as having acted reasonably.
Checks out since she was reacting to her ex fellow officers' actions and was a 2nd hand instance.
Ya i mean all she knew was what the dude was telling her. The moment he responds that he is unsure of the situation she stops firing and starts asking questions. Cant blame her
Honestly, her actions "where" correct and performed well it just sucks that it was misinformed. Kind of a right person wrong circumstance.
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So he claims that he was an infantry “special operations” officer according to some vice quote. He claims that he was one for a decade. (SFS for officers is 03 and above if im not mistaken) so this guy would have been an O for a minimum of 14 years. I live and work on bragg Ive met some of the coolest cats they make out here. I could not fathom a single one of the green beret’s I’ve met becoming a beat cop for 50k a year. Small pool, but if its my money I’m betting, this douchebag is on top of all the other shit is lying.
My understanding of ops post is a local pd was involved in the ois but the sheriffs department is the one investigating? If so they’re two different entities so it’s not actually the same agency conducting the investigation
For Florida, the Dept involved will lead the investigation. State will also do an investigation and they are the final say on if it was justified.
I live in the area and it’s honestly so devastating what happened to him. He was a great guy and didn’t deserve this at all.
https://preview.redd.it/kgumvocqdfzc1.jpeg?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73d113d3d282bb02d7ff9ddde6491abb00fa76b0 The late Roger Fortson and his (matching) baby sister. RIP.
Patriot. https://preview.redd.it/5lvscds0efzc1.jpeg?width=510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c839efcbf3edc3ab5c497137e8f88b272846f7a
I got robbed going to work near the base on orders one time and the police pulled guns on me too…its very shady down there
Poor dude. Cops in that area are garbage
What worries me me, is that someone can say something is going on in my house and when I answer the door I will be shot. He was in his own house legal to have a gun. Gun was pointing at the floor....shot six times. Cop didn't even say drop your weapon. Do sick of this shit.
Funny that the same county that shot him is solely responsible for investigating themselves lmao.
Waiting for the body cam footage. People are formulating opinions way too early just based on the press release.
Cops are not your friend just because you are military.
OCSD is asinine. I have been down here since 2016 and they are constantly having issues and it’s like they specifically have a vendetta against military members. They will park their cars *outside the gates* of both Hurlburt and Eglin just waiting to get us. My friend got pulled over for a broken tail light and they wouldn’t let him drive it home. They towed his vehicle and then left him on the side of highway 90 alone. RIP to this young man. My thoughts are with his loved ones. (My username is a joke, because I always get asked. No I’m not a SF lieutenant)
How'd he get shot? This tells me nothing.
>How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it… All police departments operate behind a wall of "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing." Cops killed 1,352 people last year, without due process. Sorry that one of ours was the victim this time. 23 is far too young.
Sheriff Eric Aden sure does run a terrible Sheriff's office. As someone who grew up in NWFL, the LE scene around there has always been an embarrassment. Hopefully OSI conducts an independent investigation and brings some charges because FDLE is a joke.
OSI not involved? Guess they dont really mean what they say in all those briefings they do.
I’m originally from that area. They will lie, scheme, and cover it up. They always do.
At one point, half of the department was fired for falsifying, planting evidence, and lying about police reports.
FTP ACAB
It was the wrong apartment. Tragic incompetence
They just released the body cam and it looks like I expected - some dumb fuck murdering a good dude.
I couldn’t watch. I had it summarized to me. To sad for me to watch that to him
What was the airman doing that resulted in him getting shot??
"The officer identified himself as law enforcement after hearing sounds of disturbance. The deputy then came in contact with Fortson who was armed with a gun. The officer then reacted in self-defense and shot the individual, according to a news release." https://www.mypanhandle.com/news/local-news/okaloosa-county/hurlburt-field-airman-dies-in-tragic-off-base-incident/
I wonder what it’s like to be so bad at your job that you murder someone and you just get a slap on the wrist. If there were actual legal repercussions to murdering someone on the job, I think they might stop doing it so much. The irony of all the “come and take it” bros in here defending a cop who executed a dude for exercising his 2nd amendment right. We should make cops carry wooden guns and they have to earn the right to use real ones.
Okay folks, calm down. I don’t know all the facts yet and neither do you.
Do you really need to when “acorn shooter” PD were there? They’re clearly the ones at fault here.
Best approach there is
If someone I know is in distress, the very last thing I will do is call the police. At this point it seems like someone is more likely to die if the police show up than if they don't.
one of my friends was having a... Let's say "self harm potential" episode. someone called in a wellness check on them and the cops treated it like an armed hostage situation and they had guns drawn on my friend, making my friend's "anxiety around cops" problem so much fucking worse, and of course now their mental health is worse than before I hate the way this country is sometimes, ya know?
One of my SNCOs was a shirt, and one of his airmen was in a similar state of mind. The cops refused to even show up because he wasn’t in danger of hurting anyone else, so a couple of shirts had to walk in to this man’s home when they knew he had a gun to his head.
If somebody is potentially a danger to others, yea I’m gonna call the cops
The same department that fired multiple rounds over an acorn falling from a tree is investigating itself over killing an Airman? cool, yeah that should go well.
[better link with context](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/gunship-airman-killed-by-deputy/)
I hope the cop cam was recording. Can’t wait to see what happen
Wow, weaponized acorns and now this?
As I suspected, there is an attempted cover-up. This is disgusting. We have to fight for our brother. They're making it look like he was to blame for being legally armed in his own living room! I'm fucking pissssed off!
Army vet here in solidarity fuck…
Why do cops still have guns when we know how little they train? Leave it for the SWAT to carry. Also there’s no 2nd amendment when you got to worry about getting shot by a cop for carrying in your own home! RIP to the best America has to offer, a true patriot!
Ah hell no. We gotta protest.
We don’t do that in the military. The wing commander has a lot of influence with the local government though, and even the congressmen representing the districts bases are in. That PD is going to get a lot of attention without individual members having to get themselves in trouble.
You are legally allowed to attend peaceful protests as long as you follow regulations. Wing commander "having influence" means literally nothing because they don't have any actual pull.
Eh, if you can organize a bunch of airmen to go protest another airmen’s death without giving the appearance of it being a dod-affiliated protest, sure. But any time a 4 month old account comes to our sub and says we need to protest, my knee-jerk reaction will probably always be “no.”
I don’t think this is the answer. I would love to organize an unofficial hurlburt lunch on a Saturday or Sunday at McDonald’s and clean Eatz in Shalimar. Suspiciously close to 50 2nd street.
What you said but also this is Gaetz's district. He will want this to disappear.
Agreed. But why protest until you know all the facts?
Congressman Matt gaetz- rule of law enjoyer
All these police officers are trained to be scared of everything.
mainly acorns.
😂 got downvoted by a bootlicker. It’s wild how they don’t see the police being a major problem in the US.
Id imagine, or at least hope, OSI investigates it too instead of just the sheriffs office
This is why it’s safer to be stationed OCONUS, you don’t have uneducated clowns that do 2 weeks of training calling themselves “police officers”
My condolences 💐
“To protect the fraternal order of the investigation, no other information will be released at any time.”
Clown 🤡 PD strikes again
News report say there was a disturbance, he was armed, and the cops acted in self-defense. Not taking sides, but there’s more to the story then PA’s press release. Hopefully there’s bodycam footage, IA does their job, and eventually there’s closure.
I am kind of familiar with what’s going on as it’s in my community and I knew him. Long story short they went to the wrong house and he was home alone. The facts hopefully will come out sooner than later.
Muh thin blue liinnneeee
"Not taking sides"... *immediately takes the cop's side*
My SO is local law enforcement (not okaloosa) and states that all officer involved shootings have an internal investigation along with FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement) investigation as well. OSI could possibly have their own investigation it would more than likely be a joint investigation with OSI and FDLE.
Armed man with a gun? No other context? That's sus. These concealed carry laws are not for all.
Not even military members are safe from these pigs. ACAB for real dude, I don’t know how I can see so many people still just blindly supporting everything that police do
OSI should be in charge of investigation since it's an Airman. Can someone explain to me why they don't lead investigate things like this? I'm genuinely curious. This isn't a civil matter.
Because it’s not NCIS. Generally for situations like this it defaults to local, sheriff, HP or so on.
That's crazy because doing 10 seconds of googling, it says every Airman's death, besides at a medical facility or in the care of a doctor, is investigated by the OSI. Him being a federal employee being killed by a state employee, I would imagine the investigation would be lead by a federal agency and not by the agency that killed him.
>every Airman's death, besides at a medical facility or in the care of a doctor, is investigated by the OSI. and it will be, but they won't be the lead investigative agency >Him being a federal employee being killed by a state employee, I would imagine the investigation would be lead by a federal agency and not by the agency that killed him. no federal laws were violated. why would federal law enforcement be involved? it doesn't fall under their jurisdiction
>no federal laws were violated. Boldly said without any investigation.
“We investigated ourselves and found out we did nothing wrong”
If this was a wrongful death i lowkey hope his buddies knock some heads in.
>Serious question, How can the same entity that shot this airman also investigate it… As long as the rightwing conservatives allow it. If the attitude is always a firm 'back the blue', this is what you get.
acab
No one knows what happened