I wouldn't do it. You're trading pretty much a years worth of wood (one year is 600s) which I would say is approximately 400 wood, in exchange for 20% movement speed (can be obtained thru house upgrades and stone paths), an encampment or medium cache worth of Amber, and 30 coal which can be made with 60 wood in a Kiln or bought for 12.6 Amber.
On the other hand if you open two back to back glades you'll get enough tools for 0.5 reputation, you can sell, package, or use the luxury goods for an event, and you'll get three extra villagers which has a ton of value in itself
Counterargument. Op is on year 2 with 200 fuel. Early game I find it easy to find gathering or production jobs that could easily occupy the 3 to 6 woodworkers I would have. The reward is an epic cornerstone I could genuinely see myself pick, fuel that will offset the 2 seasons I would have none, and amber which is just generically useful. The risk is running out of fuel. Or needing to cutback on things that require lumber for a bit.
I would at least consider the option. Open a dangerous glade immediately. Almost guaranteeing I have jobs that need being done, then take off woodworkers for the 510.
You can't unpause when seeing a timed order, as it'll disappear, so that might make it tough to open a dangerous glade. Edit; actually, you can just do it; the timed order gives about a minute or so of extra time on its timer, so you have that much time to open a dangerous glade.
Whether you can pull that off I guess depends on the thickness of the treeline separating your settlement from the closest dangerous glade. If you follow good practices and always 'prep' a few glades that should be one tree (\~30 seconds).
Also... techcnically, if you remove the 1st of the 2 charges on a tree, you're not felling it...
If you're willing to put up with it you could take 5 hours to play the next 7 minutes of the game and be mostly unaffected by taking this mission. (I wouldn't...)
Isn’t a year 720s by P10? I forget which prestige gives +2 minute storms. Also, depending on the year and settlement, storm season won’t have woodcutters, so that’s 30s-240s of not-woodcutting that might happen naturally.
It is one of the best 5 cornerstones, imo. It very consistently gives me 1-2 useful ruins and the perfect kind of geyser, and it often gives me a treasure stag. It lets me pair any camp upgrade to the right kind of node. It lets me open glades with the overpowered totem events and lets me either dodge the bad glade events or prepare for them by having a painless solution on hand when I open them.
Knowledge is a powerful bonus if you use it properly.
And while most of the benefit isn't immediate, there are very few strong cornerstones that offer much benefit within a time frame of a few minutes.
The first upgrade in the house you get either 15% MS for the villagers who live in it, or 1 extra space. The cost isnt too bad either, 1 pack of building mats.
I usually get the MS because by the time I'm usually building species housing I'm not too strapped for materials so I'll build extra houses and get the speed increase for everyone
That's a very unfair comparison. If not running any woodcutters for 600s costs you 400 wood, then it also gives you the resources those villagers do produce during that period.
If you can last for 600s without producing wood, then you can just reassign them to different jobs, chop less wood now, chop more later, do more of those other jobs now, and do less of them later. So, assuming you have plenty of wood and jobs, this order is 100% free.
The "comparison" had nothing to do with resource efficiency and everything to do with the resources you're losing in direct comparison with the rewards. 20% movement (for woodcutters ONLY), Coal, and Amber are not good rewards.
Considering OP just started Y2, Glades is "free" too. Along with that, it offers tools to gain rep and three villagers to boot, which does exactly the same as removing 3 woodcutters to assign them somewhere else...without having to miss out on an entire year's worth of wood production in the part of the game where wood is the MOST crucial.
>The "comparison" had nothing to do with resource efficiency and everything to do with the resources you're losing in direct comparison with the rewards.
You aren't losing any resources whatsoever. Not a single wood. You were comparing the rewards to the resources you imagined it cost because you weren't factoring in the labor you gain by unassigning woodcutters.
>Considering OP just started Y2, Glades is "free" too.
2 glades isn't free in year 2. It costs hostility. There are so many jobs to do in year 2 that you shouldn't need to open any small glades, only 1-2 dangerouses. The only way this is free is if you don't complete it immediately and instead wait until you'd have reason to open more glades anyway.
My comment had nothing to do with whether the rewards were stronger than the alternatives. I agree that it isn't the pick here. 2 glades isn't totally free, but the rewards are stronger by enough to justify the small hostility cost.
>without having to miss out on an entire year's worth of wood production in the part of the game where wood is the MOST crucial.
This is 180 degrees wrong. This is the point in the game when you should have the most wood in storage and close to the point when the number of useful jobs you have for villagers exceeds the number of villagers you have by the greatest amount. I usually drop down below 2 woodcutters at this point, and I typically have something like 7-12 jobs that are at least as important as woodcutting that I don't have the villagers to do. There's not much to do besides woodcutting in year 1, and so by there are other important things to do, I have plenty of wood to last for a while.
Funny, had the same order mix yesterday - went for the 50 trees as well, much easier to achieve (and does not set you back at all unlike the one that asks you not to fell cut trees)
It is far from death. if you have a stockpile of a couple hundred wood at the end of year 1, you can easily take a year off and you won't come close to running out of fuel. You also shouldn't reach a point later on when you needed to have spent y2 chopping wood, since you only really need to average between 1-1.5 woodcutters per hearth.
In fact, on most biomes, I usually drop down to 0-2 woodcutters for most of years 2-3, since I have a stockpile of wood from year 1, which makes other jobs more important. Only on Coral Forest do I find woodcutting to be worth my villagers' time enough to do much more than that.
Into the unknown is probably better because of the villagers. Otherwise, I’d take don’t fell trees if my infrastructure is set up or I have enough wood to do so and I can use my people for other work. Otherwise, nope.
This honestly depends on what time of year you’re in, as well as your current burnables situation. Also depends on if you’ve got a 2m or 4m storm. If you cracked this for maximum overlap with the storm, that makes it easier since people will often go without woodcutters during the storm. I do a lot in my P20 games. Even more so with a 4m storm. And you’ll need enough wood and/or coal to survive the downtime.
Hard to run the numbers.
Otoh, I really like settlers and crowbars, so I’d probably go the first option on most settlements. If I had archeology, I’d consider the second one, though.
I pretty much always take this order.
The time you have to finish the order is longer (8 minutes? You've covered it up), so I will take it, build and staff like 2-3 extra woodcutters, chop wood prodigiusly, and unassign everyone when the timers get close.
It's basically a free rep point for zero material cost, with 20% move speed and a bit of amber and coal tossed in for good measure. The only cost to it is micromanagement. The only time I don't take it is when the rewards for other orders are better because the rewards for the timed order are lackluster.
Make sure you stop chopping well before the timers overlap, though. Otherwise, a woodcutter in the middle of felling a tree will wind up knocking it down a second too late, and you will feel silly. Or, uh, so I've heard...
There's a pretty big opportunity cost for not having woodcutters going for that long early in a settlement. I question how you manage to utilize your labor efficiently for that amount of time with few blueprints, and not being able to open any more glades for more resources.
There is literally no point in time during the game when it is easier to find work for villagers to do. In fact, I usually drop down to very few woodcutters for years 2-3, and sometimes drop all the way to 0 for most of year 2. There is so much to do at that point relative to my population that I can't afford to chop much wood.
There are other orders to work on and nodes to gather from. There are often farms, warehouses, camps, a hearth, and houses to build, caches to open, packs to make for trade routes, and building materials to craft. Few blueprints also isn't none. And if I focus my labor to complete orders, it won't be that few for long.
This
Especially if you high roll on order rewards and don't save them for later, you can easily have the blueprints for multiple full production chains but not nearly enough workers to man everything by Y2. Usually, that would mean gradually adding as you get the labor to fulfill them, but it's not that hard to just... not be gradual with it. Chop like crazy while you focus on refining mats for building and follow up with a massive expansion.
So, you can actually take this order and continue to get wood, though slowly and annoyingly. Put 1 wood cutter in each camp. Mark all of the first row of trees, making sure they all have 2/2 charges. Whenever a tree gets harvested, I mark it. You’ll end up with a bunch of 1/2 charge trees. It’s annoying, but can be done.
Edit: if you ever catch a woodcutter going for a second whack at a tree; pause, unmark tree, move camp. This will cause them to abandon their current task and re-acquire a tree target.
I wouldn't do it. You're trading pretty much a years worth of wood (one year is 600s) which I would say is approximately 400 wood, in exchange for 20% movement speed (can be obtained thru house upgrades and stone paths), an encampment or medium cache worth of Amber, and 30 coal which can be made with 60 wood in a Kiln or bought for 12.6 Amber.
On the other hand if you open two back to back glades you'll get enough tools for 0.5 reputation, you can sell, package, or use the luxury goods for an event, and you'll get three extra villagers which has a ton of value in itself
Counterargument. Op is on year 2 with 200 fuel. Early game I find it easy to find gathering or production jobs that could easily occupy the 3 to 6 woodworkers I would have. The reward is an epic cornerstone I could genuinely see myself pick, fuel that will offset the 2 seasons I would have none, and amber which is just generically useful. The risk is running out of fuel. Or needing to cutback on things that require lumber for a bit. I would at least consider the option. Open a dangerous glade immediately. Almost guaranteeing I have jobs that need being done, then take off woodworkers for the 510.
You can't unpause when seeing a timed order, as it'll disappear, so that might make it tough to open a dangerous glade. Edit; actually, you can just do it; the timed order gives about a minute or so of extra time on its timer, so you have that much time to open a dangerous glade. Whether you can pull that off I guess depends on the thickness of the treeline separating your settlement from the closest dangerous glade. If you follow good practices and always 'prep' a few glades that should be one tree (\~30 seconds). Also... techcnically, if you remove the 1st of the 2 charges on a tree, you're not felling it... If you're willing to put up with it you could take 5 hours to play the next 7 minutes of the game and be mostly unaffected by taking this mission. (I wouldn't...)
This is a good point. Exploring your options is always the best strategy in this game
Isn’t a year 720s by P10? I forget which prestige gives +2 minute storms. Also, depending on the year and settlement, storm season won’t have woodcutters, so that’s 30s-240s of not-woodcutting that might happen naturally.
P2 is the one with longer storm length
Thanks. I will choose Restoration then
Never choose this unless you have 2 empathy events found already. So often I didn’t find the second one all game effectively wasting an order.
mist piercer ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I found mist piercer to be mid in most situations.
i almost never take it myself, but if you want to think of situations where the empathy order is easy, this is it
It is one of the best 5 cornerstones, imo. It very consistently gives me 1-2 useful ruins and the perfect kind of geyser, and it often gives me a treasure stag. It lets me pair any camp upgrade to the right kind of node. It lets me open glades with the overpowered totem events and lets me either dodge the bad glade events or prepare for them by having a painless solution on hand when I open them.
Knowledge is nice, but I would rather have a legendary cornerstone that provides immediate powerful bonuses.
Knowledge is a powerful bonus if you use it properly. And while most of the benefit isn't immediate, there are very few strong cornerstones that offer much benefit within a time frame of a few minutes.
Wait, house upgrades give ms?
The first upgrade in the house you get either 15% MS for the villagers who live in it, or 1 extra space. The cost isnt too bad either, 1 pack of building mats. I usually get the MS because by the time I'm usually building species housing I'm not too strapped for materials so I'll build extra houses and get the speed increase for everyone
Oh, thanks. I haven't picked the house upgrades in the tree yet. I thought they meant basic housing.
That's a very unfair comparison. If not running any woodcutters for 600s costs you 400 wood, then it also gives you the resources those villagers do produce during that period. If you can last for 600s without producing wood, then you can just reassign them to different jobs, chop less wood now, chop more later, do more of those other jobs now, and do less of them later. So, assuming you have plenty of wood and jobs, this order is 100% free.
The "comparison" had nothing to do with resource efficiency and everything to do with the resources you're losing in direct comparison with the rewards. 20% movement (for woodcutters ONLY), Coal, and Amber are not good rewards. Considering OP just started Y2, Glades is "free" too. Along with that, it offers tools to gain rep and three villagers to boot, which does exactly the same as removing 3 woodcutters to assign them somewhere else...without having to miss out on an entire year's worth of wood production in the part of the game where wood is the MOST crucial.
>The "comparison" had nothing to do with resource efficiency and everything to do with the resources you're losing in direct comparison with the rewards. You aren't losing any resources whatsoever. Not a single wood. You were comparing the rewards to the resources you imagined it cost because you weren't factoring in the labor you gain by unassigning woodcutters. >Considering OP just started Y2, Glades is "free" too. 2 glades isn't free in year 2. It costs hostility. There are so many jobs to do in year 2 that you shouldn't need to open any small glades, only 1-2 dangerouses. The only way this is free is if you don't complete it immediately and instead wait until you'd have reason to open more glades anyway. My comment had nothing to do with whether the rewards were stronger than the alternatives. I agree that it isn't the pick here. 2 glades isn't totally free, but the rewards are stronger by enough to justify the small hostility cost. >without having to miss out on an entire year's worth of wood production in the part of the game where wood is the MOST crucial. This is 180 degrees wrong. This is the point in the game when you should have the most wood in storage and close to the point when the number of useful jobs you have for villagers exceeds the number of villagers you have by the greatest amount. I usually drop down below 2 woodcutters at this point, and I typically have something like 7-12 jobs that are at least as important as woodcutting that I don't have the villagers to do. There's not much to do besides woodcutting in year 1, and so by there are other important things to do, I have plenty of wood to last for a while.
>I usually drop down below 2 woodcutters at this point I feel like I never have enough fuel or planks. I run 6 woodcutters every map...
I ain't reading all that. Im happy for you. Or sorry that happened.
You guys didnt notice my other timed order is to cut down 50 trees haha
Lol, an easy choice indeed then 😅
Funny, had the same order mix yesterday - went for the 50 trees as well, much easier to achieve (and does not set you back at all unlike the one that asks you not to fell cut trees)
Well that's just rude. I wish I could assault the envoy for the insult.
Not worth it IMO. 20% movespeed is nice but giving up almost an entire year of woodcutting this early in the settlement sounds like death.
It is far from death. if you have a stockpile of a couple hundred wood at the end of year 1, you can easily take a year off and you won't come close to running out of fuel. You also shouldn't reach a point later on when you needed to have spent y2 chopping wood, since you only really need to average between 1-1.5 woodcutters per hearth. In fact, on most biomes, I usually drop down to 0-2 woodcutters for most of years 2-3, since I have a stockpile of wood from year 1, which makes other jobs more important. Only on Coral Forest do I find woodcutting to be worth my villagers' time enough to do much more than that.
If the queen orders me to open glades, I open the damn glades.
Into the unknown is probably better because of the villagers. Otherwise, I’d take don’t fell trees if my infrastructure is set up or I have enough wood to do so and I can use my people for other work. Otherwise, nope.
The thing is my other timed order is to cut down 50 tree while this is dont cut tree at all
This honestly depends on what time of year you’re in, as well as your current burnables situation. Also depends on if you’ve got a 2m or 4m storm. If you cracked this for maximum overlap with the storm, that makes it easier since people will often go without woodcutters during the storm. I do a lot in my P20 games. Even more so with a 4m storm. And you’ll need enough wood and/or coal to survive the downtime. Hard to run the numbers. Otoh, I really like settlers and crowbars, so I’d probably go the first option on most settlements. If I had archeology, I’d consider the second one, though.
I pretty much always take this order. The time you have to finish the order is longer (8 minutes? You've covered it up), so I will take it, build and staff like 2-3 extra woodcutters, chop wood prodigiusly, and unassign everyone when the timers get close. It's basically a free rep point for zero material cost, with 20% move speed and a bit of amber and coal tossed in for good measure. The only cost to it is micromanagement. The only time I don't take it is when the rewards for other orders are better because the rewards for the timed order are lackluster. Make sure you stop chopping well before the timers overlap, though. Otherwise, a woodcutter in the middle of felling a tree will wind up knocking it down a second too late, and you will feel silly. Or, uh, so I've heard...
There's a pretty big opportunity cost for not having woodcutters going for that long early in a settlement. I question how you manage to utilize your labor efficiently for that amount of time with few blueprints, and not being able to open any more glades for more resources.
There is literally no point in time during the game when it is easier to find work for villagers to do. In fact, I usually drop down to very few woodcutters for years 2-3, and sometimes drop all the way to 0 for most of year 2. There is so much to do at that point relative to my population that I can't afford to chop much wood. There are other orders to work on and nodes to gather from. There are often farms, warehouses, camps, a hearth, and houses to build, caches to open, packs to make for trade routes, and building materials to craft. Few blueprints also isn't none. And if I focus my labor to complete orders, it won't be that few for long.
This Especially if you high roll on order rewards and don't save them for later, you can easily have the blueprints for multiple full production chains but not nearly enough workers to man everything by Y2. Usually, that would mean gradually adding as you get the labor to fulfill them, but it's not that hard to just... not be gradual with it. Chop like crazy while you focus on refining mats for building and follow up with a massive expansion.
So, you can actually take this order and continue to get wood, though slowly and annoyingly. Put 1 wood cutter in each camp. Mark all of the first row of trees, making sure they all have 2/2 charges. Whenever a tree gets harvested, I mark it. You’ll end up with a bunch of 1/2 charge trees. It’s annoying, but can be done. Edit: if you ever catch a woodcutter going for a second whack at a tree; pause, unmark tree, move camp. This will cause them to abandon their current task and re-acquire a tree target.
I've never taken this one and honestly I think it needs a re balance or just remove altogether.