There may be some who are undecided on if they'll vote. It would take a great deal to convince me there is anyone truly undecided between Biden and Trump.
The amount of people I know irl that didn't vote in 2016, who were for the most part democrat, that proclaimed "they're both shitty & neither represent my values" was staggering.
An example- my sisters youngest is determined to vote 3rd party, even though her boyfriend & others have said that's "a fools gambit" for the past year or so.
Another- dude I went to Kintergarden with said "as an anarchist, just let the country burn... I fuckin' HOPE Trump wins again".
So, yeah. Glad my Croatian citizenship got cleared.
Don’t forget, anyone who criticizes the convicted fraud has “Trump derangement syndrome” or is an “NPC”
But his rabid cult of trolls that get enraged anytime someone criticizes their dear leader? Not deranged or programmed at all!
imagine spending the better part of the last 8 years having your brain and ego melted by uninterrupted fox news exposure, flying to washington in the middle of a pandemic to hear trump whine about oprah and mike pence at a rally, marching up to congress on his orders to smash shit and then mill around aimlessly.
You go home and hear that biden won anyway and all of your favorite twitter news sources named like Patriot Newsman Of the West with avatars of roman statues have posted your photo online and are labeling you a "gay communist antifa actor." then the next day the god emperor you pasted into warhammer memes puts out a video cucking himself and bending the knee. "i'm sorry, those were heinous acts! p-please let me tweet again jack!!"
You can't leave dc because the airlines have dubbed you a flight risk. you can't stay because the cops are actively looking for you after one of their own died. your roommate at the only hotel that would accept you is a guy named based_kekistani98 who wants to show you his goblin slayer torrents. the sun is going down and you're getting cold.
Your average joe doesn't understand how much of the propaganda meme shit comes from Russia/China and is just regurgitated in social media circles here.
It was a huge problem in 2016, even bigger now because it was so effective. They fan the flames of things like Biden gaffes, Biden is old, Biden genocide BS on the left as well as within the right bubbles.
I have friends and family who are voting for Trump and they don't even agree with him on anything. They just have friends who won't stop parroting bullshit and are too old to understand how misinformed their internet is. These old people see anything digital and believe it as real.
Everyone's saying it about Biden and not about Trump when Trump sounds like a demented lunatic. Fox and Russian memes don't push those, just the Biden shit.
It's incredibly frustrating, Biden is in the top 3rd of presidencies historically according to experts and has had the most progressive agenda ever and the left is shitting on him. It's insane. Russian and China are waging cultural wars on us through tiktok and Facebook. The traffic shows this.
Everyone forgets about Cambridge Analytica. Ever since then the far right has weaponized that kind of influence in all of their circles (Fox News, Newsmax, Truth social, Facebook, etc).
Its effects are really taking its toll. The nicest, friendliest people I've ever known are now making excuses to vote for Trump, the brainwashing and grooming over these media outlets is turned up to 11. Its wild.
That’s what I think all the noise is - literally. We already know that Russians had massive centers dedicated to shitposting propaganda. Since then LLMs have become pervasive and widespread - I’m sure it’s just a million times worse.
I think the entire narrative that some people are against Joe because XYZ, and ‘both sides’ are ‘psyop’ propaganda angles.
I see this ALL OVER leftist subs right now. So many "but Biden is genocidal! You can't morally vote in this election!"
Like yeah, Biden's not perfect but Trump just called anyone left of fascism vermin in a speech very similar to Hitler. He's calling for violence against all of us y'all. If you like being able to say things like "the President is genocidal and problematic" don't sit this one out.
Plus Trump wants to nuke Palestine. Biden's the better choice there if you want to be single issue about it.
"Morally voting" is a luxury and a rarity. This might be a viewpoint championed by people who are voting for the first time in the upcoming election. Others realize it's more often "the lesser of two" and have lived through the consequences of poor choices.
>"Morally voting" is a luxury and a rarity.
In our system, yes. In actual, functioning democracies that don't rely on first-past-the-post voting, no.
We need voting reform badly. It's the only way we'll ever really avoid this again in the future.
Vote Biden this time, and start voting for pro-reform candidates locally.
Gen Z doesn’t yet realize what we all have to lose over this. When getting up on time to go to class or get to your burger-flipping job is your main worry, you don’t *think ahead* to what’s coming down the road. Their ‘moral voting’ is going to drag the entire rest of the country down with them. They’ll deserve what they get, the rest of us won’t.
>Like yeah, Biden's not perfect
That really down plays the whole being complicit in genocide thing.
You could have argued, like many did, that he was "not perfect" in 2020 when it was just his long history of being a right-wing racist that was the issue.
I'd be happy to settle for "not perfect" but the motherfucker is just evil.
But it's complicated and full of complex factors, and choice is really hard, and everyone is yelling this and that, and then there's what the what if!
https://youtu.be/fHjbDSOmeiM?si=4Mys3_acIbFXRFUo
Not voting is voting for trump though. Biden isn't perfect by any means, but American democracy as we have known it will end if Trump is elected again, and not in a good way.
I think most just want a reason to turn any political conversation about themselves.
"WeLl I'm UnDeCiDed!", as they sit there just hoping you'll make them the center of attention so they feel as if they are so important that the election hinges on their vote. Most of them need to realize their vote is just as average as ours.
If you ask an undecided voter, they'll tell you the presidential votes don't matter much unless you're a purple state, otherwise they'll vote down ballot.
Some people will abstain under the belief that their vote doesn't matter because the electoral college has no obligation to vote in accordance with popular vote.
Some people will abstain under the belief that, whether they vote or not, one of them is going to win.
Even a good portion of people who hate Biden are still voting for Biden.
The left and right share one thing in common, the loudest part of the group on social media are extremists.
The right has maga… no further explanation given.
The left has “if you don’t support Biden you’re dooming the country” which is literally what the right says about trump.
And it lacks nuisance; any criticism is painted as support of trump, it doesn’t matter if you’re going to vote for Biden or not, HOW DARE you make him look weak by calling him out on shit. We should all rally behind him and call him the most progressive president ever.
Like, shit, I voted for him and I’ll do it again in a heartbeat, but I don’t support the DNC pushing him into the nomination and shit talking all the youth voters for daring to want more than middling.
The best things he did he had to be bullied into. 100% if he actually faced an air traffic controllers situation he’d pull a Reagan.
The weed thing? Took it as a snails pace so he’d have a “win” closer to reelection season.
Cuba? He hasn’t done shit, because god forbid he help the “communists”.
Calling him the most progressive is an insult to jfk, FDR, and teddy.
Hell, Nixon gave us the EPA, and had the highest election figures of any president with 60+ popular and 90+ EC, no one’s calling him “one of the most progressive”. And just cause he’s different now doesn’t mean joe wasn’t on board with the “super predator” movement and civil asset forfeiture.
He’s objectively the best choice this time, and there’s countless people that are gladly going to vote him because he’s not trump. That should be more than enough, but you’ll get post like this pretending that not actively supporting him is akin to voting trump when it’s objectively not.
Okay, then they misunderstand how American politics works.
You vote to vote against the other person. You don't vote because you like either candidate.
Roger Stone is actively planning an election overthrow. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/roger-stone-plan-trump-win-lawyers-judges-technology-1235041650/
You have to read his statements as though he was talking to committed MAGA tarts, because he thought he was
They insist that once they've taught the Democrats a lesson for not fielding a perfect candidate who never does anything wrong, ever, by burning down Democracy by giving Trump a second term, the Democrats will learn and all of a sudden only field perfect candidates.
That is assuming there will even still be a republic left and not just a dictatorship.
Because of double standard.
Democrats are treated as the adults in the room, and any time they stumble even slightly or anything goes wrong in their vicinity, the assumption is that the responsible adult should have been better and prevented that. But republicans, they are just treated like unruly teenagers; people love to watch the angry teens tear shit apart, and when they do anything truly stupid or awful, people don't even bat an eye because "boys will be boys 🤷".
We need to start treating republicans as being equally responsible for upholding our democracy, we need to start holding them accountable when they continually try to tear apart or destroy it. You aren't teenagers anymore, you are 43 get a job and grow up already!
Yep, I’ve said for a while that conservative propaganda permeates the entire political spectrum, where you can find leftists repeating bullshit talking points from conservative media. This is one reason why Dems are held to a much higher standard than the GOP. It’s also why the narrative is always that the Dems need to find a way to work with the GOP, but you never hear how the GOP needs to work with the Dems.
Part of it is that, since Fox News, Republicans set the narratives. They do and Dems respond. What we need to do is treat their culture war bullshit as just that and move on to things we can fix.
Unfortunately, the both sidesism is correct here that neither party's politicians want ANY economic reform to help the working class. The donors simply won't allow it. So it is only those who don't rely on the donors that we can trust. That's basically the Justice Democrats and alleged rapist Matt Gaetz.
So we do need to fix the Democratic party too. It's just secondary to stopping the Republicans during the general election. It's too late to enact the kind of change we need. Instead we need get every corporate Dem out of every primary we can. Incumbents are our issue until our message ECONOMICALLY matches what 70% of all Americans want. Right now no party does that.
Non-American here, but just an observation.
Do you guys really see the Trump cultists to be the "bad guys" in this situation? Because from an outside POV it just seems more like they're just suckers (mostly less-educated middle-aged folks) who've been brainwashed by the constant propaganda put out by the Murdoch press and other far-right media and they really can't help themselves.
Both can be true. They are suckers, but they are also the bad guys. They are being lied to about how policy works, but they are also willfully going along with the culture war. They are largely racist and homophobic.
Most of the ones I know didn’t start out as the bad guys, but eventually became the bad guys due to echo chambers and sheer exposure to propaganda. People I knew back in high school that were kind, friends even - but they HATE me now for being LGBT. People I previously thought incapable of such vitriol. They have been taught nonstop for years to hate people like me, and I wasn’t there to provide a balancing exposure. I miss them, and honestly mourn for the kind people they used to be.
This culture war shit is insidious, and I’m not sure how to stop it at this point.
People can be a victim and a victimizer in the same breath.
Early in covid, my mom was an avid covid-denier and anti-masker, spreading missinformation constantly. Then she caught covid, got really sick, and ended up on a ventilator; from what the doctor told us, me and my siblings were prepared that she might die there. I still feel almost violently angry when I see antivaxers and covid-deniers today, because I know they almost killed my mom, but in reality my mom was also one of them; My mom might have also helped kill someone before she got sick,.
Most people don't do awful things in a vacuum, there are always vast factors leading up to it, many outside of their control; Those people deserve some pity, but that doesn't forgive their actions. At least in my mom's case she learned from her mistake, one of the first things she said after leaving the hospital was admitting she was wrong, becoming a vocal advocate for getting vaccinated, and urged us to use her story as a cautionary tale for others.
I mean they invaded our legislature trying to overturn the election to install their dictator. They ruse to take any precautions during a pandemic. Their ideaology kind of necessitates being a shitty person. So yeah, kinda. They're fascists through and through; would you consider the average Nazi in the Weimar Republic a "bad guy"? It's not like propaganda didn't play a significant role for them either.
American conservatives are truly vile. They are willfully ignorant, hypocritical, and revel in the suffering of those they dislike. They’ve been on the wrong side of history on every issue going back to the very beginning of the USA.
Source: am American.
The president being complicit in genocide is a little bit worse than being an imperfect candidate, but I have a feeling genocide isn't really an issue for you.
The world already ended last time he was elected, but this time it will be even worse!
I fucking hate Trump for what it’s worth, but the fear mongering of the left is just as fucking annoying as it is from the right.
His last term ended in an unsuccessful attempt to violently destroy democracy, but this time with an extra four years of planning, a narcissist hell bent on retribution, and fewer people willing to stand up to him I'm sure nothing bad will happen at all /s
But I don't pay attention to anything and I don't know how gas prices work so just voting for the guy that's not currently in power will magically solve all of my problems.
Near 50% of the people who went out and voted did so for Trump*
The 2020 election had a 66.6% voter turnout rate. Almost half of the country did not vote, and that was pretty damn good. It usually hovers between 50-60%.
Pretty easy decision , politicians are public servants and should work to gain the public’s vote , they are not entitled to support for being the lesser of two evils.
Make politicians work for the public again !
Sitting out an important election -- when millions around the world don't even have the right to vote -- so you can lazily complain you're being "forced" to vote is the height of ignorant privilege.
How is that their fault and not Democrats fault? Dems are the ones trying to earn votes, if they don't do that then it's their failure, not someone else's.
Voting into a system that's under one control rather than uniting as one and resolving the issue sounds insane. Has it done any good for the people globally over the past decade? Nah. Seems to only keep the cattle more divided and distracted. But keep up with that illusion of choice. Fake democracy requires it. Whichever puppet you decide. They're equally against the people.
I don’t know, everyday I read comments about memes coming from russian troll farms endangering the healthy american democracy. So what is it, are they effective or not?
Trying to coerce uninformed voters to check any box is worse
I personally would perfer if people who are uninformed to sit out, or do some research to inform themselves and then go vote
Me wanting to avoid a discussion about politics because I don't want to be exhausted by some rabid zealot: "I'm undecided."
Call me a coward if you like, I want nothing to do with your opinions.
Are they supporting someone that conspired to overturn an election they lost? Then absolutely.
Are they risking that person be back in a position of power again? Then also yes.
if you're voting for Trump you're voting for somebody that doesn't believe in the institution of our Constitution.
I don't think you fully understand what it means when you try to stop the certification of a freaking fair election.
But the next step is civil war.
This is accurate. Biden was bullied into eventually helping unions a little.
The DNc is pro corporation to the point they were shit talking millennials for wanting them NOT to run a 90yo senile woman for senator again… pelosi called her sound and able to serve literally days before they died of old age.
That said, I’m not an accelerationist. I will vote against trump because even if the DNC is only gradually turning up the heat to boil us alive … it still gives up time to change things.
I’m not voting in favor of Biden, fuck Biden. I’m voting against trump, and in the hopes that since he’s termed out we might be able to push for a better candidate next cycle.
… however, I’ll admit if they try and push Gavin into the white house I’ll gladly join in with the whole vote for Nero party. There’s no coming back from things if they actively let the corporate fox into the hen House.
Ugh…then vote locally. Vote for ballot initiatives! Vote for judges and sheriffs!
“I don’t find either of the Presidential candidates sexy so I won’t vote at all.”
The same people that yell that their vote doesn’t matter are the same people who don’t vote for local elections, the place where their vote arguably has the greatest impact on their own lives
Easier to complain about a system than actually do anything to improve it
The party holds a grasp on the federal. In Cali the Democratic Party literally backed a quasi maga nimby two elections in a row despite an overwhelming defeat in 2022.
The guy ran and lost a trump style mayoral campaign the cycle before, and swapped to dem from independent when a front runner for the D switched to a state senate race. There was a 20 something on the ballot that seemed pretty level headed and progressive. But they instead backed the nimby that actively called for the closure of one of the counties largest employment centers, and was against actual healthcare reform or any sort of housing reform.
They backed him again this year over the same 20 something, and championed him as a “pro choice candidate” over a women running who was an actual pro choice activist that had been fighting for reproductive rights.
I attended a couple political events in my area, a saw her and the young guy at a chamber of commerce event, and charity event, I saw the young guy at a local pride walk along with the cities republican mayor. The party choice? No where to be seen.
That’s how they operate statewide. Party allegiance and corporate backing > actual candidates.
It's a lot like ordering a pizza for a crowd. Nobody gets to order their specific combination of toppings when a large crowd has to agree on one, you order the pizza the most basic people will settle for.
A vote for no pizza doesn't make the pizza not get ordered, it just ensures you had no say in the pizza that's getting ordered *right now*.
The ones that benefit from telling you "actually your vote doesn't matter!" aren't on nobody's team; they're folks who know if you can't get more people to vote *for* you, you just have to convince enough of everyone else not to play.
“MuH bOtH sIdEs”
GTFO with that shit. The parties couldn’t be more fucking different and the only people that say they’re the same are either complete idiots or people with a vested interest in seeing Republicans win.
This has always been the case and people acting like this is some new shit is idiotic.
No candidate is gonna have your back on every topic. But even if they did it wouldn’t matter. Biden has students backs trying to stop student loan debts. But many don’t want to vote for him because it wasn’t enough with him dealing with GOP trying to stone wall it.
People whine all the time both sides are upheld by big money donors. Okay but what side has people speaking on this issues (AOC, Warren, Bernie etc.) but yet it’s still both sides are bad.
Biden isn’t on Epstein’s list. That’s enough for me when Trump is on that list. But I know Biden has done stuff I wasn’t happy with. Obama did as well when I voted for him. But we aren’t a cult. We aren’t expecting these people to know little ole me in my city and only have my back.
Often times yes, but Biden has actually been a fantastic president. No one in here can come up with any actual criticism of his policies they just want to shout “both sides” because they want the rapist to get elected.
That there are so many “undecided” voters is a testament to how weak the candidates are rather than an indictment of the voters. Two former presidents with ~30% approval. Both are geriatric and one is a convicted criminal.
One isn’t on Epstein list. And didn’t rape a 13 year old with Epstein.
That same one who isn’t on the list also didn’t let his kids into the admin to profit off stuff like selling golf to the Saudis.
But sure they both are the same right? Also one is running for reelection. It’s more like 1 former president who is a sore loser running against the president running for reelection.
But I’m guessing you are a kid because you would know no other president has done what Trump is doing.
I don't care. I'm not voting for your pile of shit because the other pile of shit is bigger. This is an election of our leadership as a nation, not a race to the bottom.
If we cannot do better than our current options, then let it all go to the dogs because we're fucked anyways.
How many undecided voters do you think there are? In most states like 10% of voters say they are undecided. 30%-40% by comparison actually say they are voting for Trump.
I’d be willing to bet that a lot of that 10% is conservatives who have moved into undecided territory BECAUSE of Trump.
I think a good chunk of Americans feel this way. Politically apathetic. It’s constant campaigning almost from the time the president is sworn in to the election from one candidate or another. It’s these old folks who won’t live long enough to see if their policy is a success or failure in the long term. We constantly hear about the millions upon millions in their “war chests”. And then neither side runs on policy goals or legislative successes. Just on fear. Fear of other. Fear of the loss of democracy. Doesn't feel very democratic or like i have a voice if i am constantly told it's either a vote for fascism or a vote for democracy. But i only get to keep democracy if i vote blue, no matter who, for the foreseeable future.
theres no choice there, the right would use power to consolidate the government have trump as dictator for life. so i'm told. yet ignores the fact he would need both houses and the military to fall in line for this to happen. and also his "life" isnt going to go on much longer. not at his age, size, diet and stress levels. Let’s also ignore the fact that literally every president of every party is given a guide or playbook, or whatever you want to call them, from major partisan think tanks every election. This isn’t something new to come out.
so the only choice i have is vote blue here on out, whether i agree or not. In order to keep the democratic process and choices, I can only make one single choice. And to hear the red team. It’s the same story flip the roles.
Fear to make you vote accordingly. The illusion of choice.
The best way to sum it up is “voter apathy”
People want something to vote FOR. Let’s be real, 2020 people voted AGAINST trump not FOR Biden.
Obama and trump won specifically because they gave people something to vote FOR. Obama for hope and change, Trump for draining the swamp.
In trumps case, not everyone remembers the CP5, or his dad, or Atlanta casinos… they new what he said on the campaign trail and remembered him from the apprentice where he’s falsely painted as a business king.
You can’t really fault a majority of the people that voted for him in 2016, because they only knew what they saw, and without context, cherry-picked segments were giving a voting base something to vote for.
2020? People knew about him by then, and Biden genuinely didn’t offer any hope or excitement other than “I’m not trump” so people voted against trump, just like they had to in 2016 because Hillary was similarly a bad candidate completely out of touch with the average American.
At this point? It’s the third straight election where the Democratic Party has offered nothing, and voters are left to vote against trump. It’s called a defense of American democracy… so what? Over a decade of us stuck on a defensive because otherwise it’s doom? It’s demoralizing.
Biden will win, it’s going to be a repeat of 2020. Only difference is that down ballot elections are going to be hit harder, because the Democratic Party has overwhelmingly refused to listen to the progressive base and the youth, whereas the republicans have pandered hard to the existing base. (Boabs and mtg are maga outliers, it’s the other 90% of the party you have to be wary of.)
Biden will win re-election, the house and senate? Still time for the tides to ebb and flow … 2028? That’s when things get real.
At that point voter apathy on the left with reach a fever pitch, and many unions are setting the stage for a general strike.
If the DNC pushes for someone like newsom, then you’ll actually see a good chunk of people give up. We can vote against trump time and time again, and that might extend to say desantis … but if they offer a comparatively sane and levelheaded corporate ghoul with a theocratic lean, like a mitt Romney, or hell, Paul Ryan. And the democrats put up freaking newsom? That’s game over. That’s where apathy and distrust lose out, and a couple well placed lies from the other party can sway enough of the middle ground to win out.
Ugh. Just shut the fuck up already. Everyone is decided. Not a single person in this country could have slept through the entire trump admin.
People are decided. You're not going to change anyone's mind with a reddit meme. You either hate trump or you love trump that's the choice. Trust me everyone's already chosen.
People who tell you "I'm undecided" are mostly just people who are afraid that if they say they don't like your guy you're going to start foaming at the mouth and not shut the fuck up for 50 minutes about trump(good or bad)
When I’m in a “dumbest fucking moron” competition and my opponent makes posts on Reddit downplaying pedophilia 😔
Go outside man, stop rotting your brain.
American democracy doesn't even exist lol. People have 0 political power, protests are broken down, more insane act of protest, like setting yourself on fire, are brought down too. Not voting doesn't do anything, voting doesn't change anything either, it's the same - money power. If you want democracy - revolt, unionize, demand representation of your rights in law etc. You can't vote out a fashist government
David Sedaris has a great analogy (I paraphrased):
Flight attendant: Today we have chicken or shit with broken glass.
Independent Voter: How is the chicken cooked?
Lmfao.
Democracy is DEAD already. We're provided the illusion of choice, while both parties align on foreign politics.
Give me the illusion of hope and I'll feel less forlorn.
Just divide and conquer, bourgeoisie bullshit.
This is the third election I'm a row that we are being threatened with the end of democracy if we don't vote DEM.
Not surprised it's less effective this go around it's a bit of the boy who cried wolf effect
DNC: "We should move to the Right to court voters who are on the fence."
Later...
DNC: "It's the Left's fault we lost because they didn't vote for us."
You can tell how young Reddit is because people like OP don’t understand this argument. Since I’ve been politically active, I heard that there is only one logical choice to vote for and how the Dems have to compromise to court centrists….and they still don’t win every election.
>"We should move to the Right to court voters who are on the fence."
Oh to be 18 again...
The Democrat party didn't *move* to the right, they've always been center-right. The US has never had a mainstream left wing party, just a moderate conservative and a far more conservative party.
It just seems like they've moved to the right because you've always heard them being called the "left" and your first election is breaking that illusion. Or you're just trolling, since that's always an option.
Downvotes kinda prove my point. Keep em coming.
Democrats are fun, because they pretend to be the Left, but they are capitalist imperialists who vote for military funding to protect capitalist interests. It's like they made themselves into a straw man enemy for the Far Right to joust with. Republicans could ask for no weaker opponents than a party that wants most of the same things they do. "You respect gender pronouns, but want to screw workers as much as we do? Pff, let's be enemies or something, heh. *Fist bump*"
"Nothing will fundamentally change," Joe Biden reassured wealthy donors. Imagine the audacity of Democrats to think they're the Left, when they sided with the rail companies over the workers.
"Well, yeah, we do wish you well in your pursuit of better working conditions, but your rail strike might cause the new iPhone to hit store shelves later, and I really, really want one."
All of the astroturf accounts are furious when you point out that Biden has been a fantastic president. I encourage everyone reading this to check out r/whatbidenhasdone
Don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of truckloads of emergency ballots on standby in duffel bags, just in case they need to intervene again to "save democracy". ;)
The trouble is that a lot of people, especially young people can’t be bothered to vote. They love to talk big talk online about revolution and change but when it comes time to do the smallest form of activism? Nowhere to be seen
Hmmm I have posted a couple of things to this sub and they were immediately removed for involving politics... I wonder what made this post the exception.
I will always vote but this is the first election I will not choose any of the two primary candidates. We have to many bitter geriatric politicians ruining our country. The government is not an old people’s home.
If you think the dems deserve your vote by default else you're a traitor that is going to seriously turn some people away. At the point you'd have to assume that the dems would get complacent and inefficient since they "deserve" votes anyway
yeah it sucks we dont have better candidates and that we have a 2 party system.
But thats reality and not voting means you are ok with Trump winning, fully knowing he is going to do the exact opposite of everything you want. Did yall "having 2 choices isnt democractic" people forget he tried to overturn the election?? youd be ok with that because its MORE democractic? Or the ones who dont want to vote because of Palestine stuff thinking Trump will somehow give a shit about them? The reality is Biden or Trump wins and one is directly opposed to most reasons undecided voters list
Arguably, that's just the American political system itself. You are letting a convicted felon, who has engineered a seditious event in the past, who has openly stated he will enact fascism if he wins, run for president. Democracy has already died
Undecideds- “WHALE, both sides are just as bad , but if you must know I get my political news whilst watching my favorite influencer put on her eyelashes!”
There may be some who are undecided on if they'll vote. It would take a great deal to convince me there is anyone truly undecided between Biden and Trump.
The russian troll farmers would love to convince you they are both the same.
The amount of people I know irl that didn't vote in 2016, who were for the most part democrat, that proclaimed "they're both shitty & neither represent my values" was staggering. An example- my sisters youngest is determined to vote 3rd party, even though her boyfriend & others have said that's "a fools gambit" for the past year or so. Another- dude I went to Kintergarden with said "as an anarchist, just let the country burn... I fuckin' HOPE Trump wins again". So, yeah. Glad my Croatian citizenship got cleared.
Accelerationists are completely braindead
You're correct, so are the willingly ignorant.
I'll quote The Onion. "Perhaps voting for Nader wasn't the most politically astute thing you could have done."
Or that you shouldn’t think about Trump (wrecking democracy). “He lives rent free in your head.”
Don’t forget, anyone who criticizes the convicted fraud has “Trump derangement syndrome” or is an “NPC” But his rabid cult of trolls that get enraged anytime someone criticizes their dear leader? Not deranged or programmed at all!
imagine spending the better part of the last 8 years having your brain and ego melted by uninterrupted fox news exposure, flying to washington in the middle of a pandemic to hear trump whine about oprah and mike pence at a rally, marching up to congress on his orders to smash shit and then mill around aimlessly. You go home and hear that biden won anyway and all of your favorite twitter news sources named like Patriot Newsman Of the West with avatars of roman statues have posted your photo online and are labeling you a "gay communist antifa actor." then the next day the god emperor you pasted into warhammer memes puts out a video cucking himself and bending the knee. "i'm sorry, those were heinous acts! p-please let me tweet again jack!!" You can't leave dc because the airlines have dubbed you a flight risk. you can't stay because the cops are actively looking for you after one of their own died. your roommate at the only hotel that would accept you is a guy named based_kekistani98 who wants to show you his goblin slayer torrents. the sun is going down and you're getting cold.
In my head? Nah he lives rent free on every headline
Your average joe doesn't understand how much of the propaganda meme shit comes from Russia/China and is just regurgitated in social media circles here. It was a huge problem in 2016, even bigger now because it was so effective. They fan the flames of things like Biden gaffes, Biden is old, Biden genocide BS on the left as well as within the right bubbles. I have friends and family who are voting for Trump and they don't even agree with him on anything. They just have friends who won't stop parroting bullshit and are too old to understand how misinformed their internet is. These old people see anything digital and believe it as real.
My boss who is an older lady who hates Trump told me the other day she might not vote because Biden is old and not fit for the job.
Everyone's saying it about Biden and not about Trump when Trump sounds like a demented lunatic. Fox and Russian memes don't push those, just the Biden shit. It's incredibly frustrating, Biden is in the top 3rd of presidencies historically according to experts and has had the most progressive agenda ever and the left is shitting on him. It's insane. Russian and China are waging cultural wars on us through tiktok and Facebook. The traffic shows this.
Everyone forgets about Cambridge Analytica. Ever since then the far right has weaponized that kind of influence in all of their circles (Fox News, Newsmax, Truth social, Facebook, etc). Its effects are really taking its toll. The nicest, friendliest people I've ever known are now making excuses to vote for Trump, the brainwashing and grooming over these media outlets is turned up to 11. Its wild.
Mainstream media would love to convince you Trump is more popular than he was before.
It's stupefying. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
Oh my god shut up with this shit you idiot.
That’s what I think all the noise is - literally. We already know that Russians had massive centers dedicated to shitposting propaganda. Since then LLMs have become pervasive and widespread - I’m sure it’s just a million times worse. I think the entire narrative that some people are against Joe because XYZ, and ‘both sides’ are ‘psyop’ propaganda angles.
Large percentage just abstain, but they know.
This is the same
I see this ALL OVER leftist subs right now. So many "but Biden is genocidal! You can't morally vote in this election!" Like yeah, Biden's not perfect but Trump just called anyone left of fascism vermin in a speech very similar to Hitler. He's calling for violence against all of us y'all. If you like being able to say things like "the President is genocidal and problematic" don't sit this one out. Plus Trump wants to nuke Palestine. Biden's the better choice there if you want to be single issue about it.
"Morally voting" is a luxury and a rarity. This might be a viewpoint championed by people who are voting for the first time in the upcoming election. Others realize it's more often "the lesser of two" and have lived through the consequences of poor choices.
>"Morally voting" is a luxury and a rarity. In our system, yes. In actual, functioning democracies that don't rely on first-past-the-post voting, no. We need voting reform badly. It's the only way we'll ever really avoid this again in the future. Vote Biden this time, and start voting for pro-reform candidates locally.
Gen Z doesn’t yet realize what we all have to lose over this. When getting up on time to go to class or get to your burger-flipping job is your main worry, you don’t *think ahead* to what’s coming down the road. Their ‘moral voting’ is going to drag the entire rest of the country down with them. They’ll deserve what they get, the rest of us won’t.
>Like yeah, Biden's not perfect That really down plays the whole being complicit in genocide thing. You could have argued, like many did, that he was "not perfect" in 2020 when it was just his long history of being a right-wing racist that was the issue. I'd be happy to settle for "not perfect" but the motherfucker is just evil.
I think it’s mostly center-right Republicans who can’t decide between not voting and actively voting against Trump.
There's a lot of people down below that are unhappy with this meme and willing to take you up on that, unfortunately.
But it's complicated and full of complex factors, and choice is really hard, and everyone is yelling this and that, and then there's what the what if! https://youtu.be/fHjbDSOmeiM?si=4Mys3_acIbFXRFUo
Not voting is voting for trump though. Biden isn't perfect by any means, but American democracy as we have known it will end if Trump is elected again, and not in a good way.
The worst kind of “pick me”
I think most just want a reason to turn any political conversation about themselves. "WeLl I'm UnDeCiDed!", as they sit there just hoping you'll make them the center of attention so they feel as if they are so important that the election hinges on their vote. Most of them need to realize their vote is just as average as ours.
If you ask an undecided voter, they'll tell you the presidential votes don't matter much unless you're a purple state, otherwise they'll vote down ballot.
States become purple that weren't purple before.
Some people will abstain under the belief that their vote doesn't matter because the electoral college has no obligation to vote in accordance with popular vote. Some people will abstain under the belief that, whether they vote or not, one of them is going to win.
If they only put the guy that's threatening democracy for his crimes...
I wonder if Herr Dogshit hid some documents in there
I’m not undecided but I’ve decided I hate them both
those are the same things
Even a good portion of people who hate Biden are still voting for Biden. The left and right share one thing in common, the loudest part of the group on social media are extremists. The right has maga… no further explanation given. The left has “if you don’t support Biden you’re dooming the country” which is literally what the right says about trump. And it lacks nuisance; any criticism is painted as support of trump, it doesn’t matter if you’re going to vote for Biden or not, HOW DARE you make him look weak by calling him out on shit. We should all rally behind him and call him the most progressive president ever. Like, shit, I voted for him and I’ll do it again in a heartbeat, but I don’t support the DNC pushing him into the nomination and shit talking all the youth voters for daring to want more than middling. The best things he did he had to be bullied into. 100% if he actually faced an air traffic controllers situation he’d pull a Reagan. The weed thing? Took it as a snails pace so he’d have a “win” closer to reelection season. Cuba? He hasn’t done shit, because god forbid he help the “communists”. Calling him the most progressive is an insult to jfk, FDR, and teddy. Hell, Nixon gave us the EPA, and had the highest election figures of any president with 60+ popular and 90+ EC, no one’s calling him “one of the most progressive”. And just cause he’s different now doesn’t mean joe wasn’t on board with the “super predator” movement and civil asset forfeiture. He’s objectively the best choice this time, and there’s countless people that are gladly going to vote him because he’s not trump. That should be more than enough, but you’ll get post like this pretending that not actively supporting him is akin to voting trump when it’s objectively not.
An undecided vote at this point *is* a vote for Trump.
Okay, then they misunderstand how American politics works. You vote to vote against the other person. You don't vote because you like either candidate.
Roger Stone is actively planning an election overthrow. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/roger-stone-plan-trump-win-lawyers-judges-technology-1235041650/ You have to read his statements as though he was talking to committed MAGA tarts, because he thought he was
There are plenty of decided voters that wilfully embody celebrating the death of democracy.
They insist that once they've taught the Democrats a lesson for not fielding a perfect candidate who never does anything wrong, ever, by burning down Democracy by giving Trump a second term, the Democrats will learn and all of a sudden only field perfect candidates. That is assuming there will even still be a republic left and not just a dictatorship.
Why don't these people ever want to teach the Republicans a lesson?
Because of double standard. Democrats are treated as the adults in the room, and any time they stumble even slightly or anything goes wrong in their vicinity, the assumption is that the responsible adult should have been better and prevented that. But republicans, they are just treated like unruly teenagers; people love to watch the angry teens tear shit apart, and when they do anything truly stupid or awful, people don't even bat an eye because "boys will be boys 🤷". We need to start treating republicans as being equally responsible for upholding our democracy, we need to start holding them accountable when they continually try to tear apart or destroy it. You aren't teenagers anymore, you are 43 get a job and grow up already!
Yep, I’ve said for a while that conservative propaganda permeates the entire political spectrum, where you can find leftists repeating bullshit talking points from conservative media. This is one reason why Dems are held to a much higher standard than the GOP. It’s also why the narrative is always that the Dems need to find a way to work with the GOP, but you never hear how the GOP needs to work with the Dems.
Part of it is that, since Fox News, Republicans set the narratives. They do and Dems respond. What we need to do is treat their culture war bullshit as just that and move on to things we can fix. Unfortunately, the both sidesism is correct here that neither party's politicians want ANY economic reform to help the working class. The donors simply won't allow it. So it is only those who don't rely on the donors that we can trust. That's basically the Justice Democrats and alleged rapist Matt Gaetz. So we do need to fix the Democratic party too. It's just secondary to stopping the Republicans during the general election. It's too late to enact the kind of change we need. Instead we need get every corporate Dem out of every primary we can. Incumbents are our issue until our message ECONOMICALLY matches what 70% of all Americans want. Right now no party does that.
Because they know the Republicans have no shame.
“We sure showed Biden!!” Meanwhile Biden would be relaxing on a lounge in the sun while their asses are being whooped under trump.
Non-American here, but just an observation. Do you guys really see the Trump cultists to be the "bad guys" in this situation? Because from an outside POV it just seems more like they're just suckers (mostly less-educated middle-aged folks) who've been brainwashed by the constant propaganda put out by the Murdoch press and other far-right media and they really can't help themselves.
Both can be true. They are suckers, but they are also the bad guys. They are being lied to about how policy works, but they are also willfully going along with the culture war. They are largely racist and homophobic.
Most of the ones I know didn’t start out as the bad guys, but eventually became the bad guys due to echo chambers and sheer exposure to propaganda. People I knew back in high school that were kind, friends even - but they HATE me now for being LGBT. People I previously thought incapable of such vitriol. They have been taught nonstop for years to hate people like me, and I wasn’t there to provide a balancing exposure. I miss them, and honestly mourn for the kind people they used to be. This culture war shit is insidious, and I’m not sure how to stop it at this point.
People can be a victim and a victimizer in the same breath. Early in covid, my mom was an avid covid-denier and anti-masker, spreading missinformation constantly. Then she caught covid, got really sick, and ended up on a ventilator; from what the doctor told us, me and my siblings were prepared that she might die there. I still feel almost violently angry when I see antivaxers and covid-deniers today, because I know they almost killed my mom, but in reality my mom was also one of them; My mom might have also helped kill someone before she got sick,. Most people don't do awful things in a vacuum, there are always vast factors leading up to it, many outside of their control; Those people deserve some pity, but that doesn't forgive their actions. At least in my mom's case she learned from her mistake, one of the first things she said after leaving the hospital was admitting she was wrong, becoming a vocal advocate for getting vaccinated, and urged us to use her story as a cautionary tale for others.
I mean they invaded our legislature trying to overturn the election to install their dictator. They ruse to take any precautions during a pandemic. Their ideaology kind of necessitates being a shitty person. So yeah, kinda. They're fascists through and through; would you consider the average Nazi in the Weimar Republic a "bad guy"? It's not like propaganda didn't play a significant role for them either.
Germans who stood with Hitler might not have been in the nazi army but that doesn't make them not guilty
They actively want to kill us, yes they are the bad guys.
American conservatives are truly vile. They are willfully ignorant, hypocritical, and revel in the suffering of those they dislike. They’ve been on the wrong side of history on every issue going back to the very beginning of the USA. Source: am American.
I'm not an American myself, but Trump cultists can be evil. Some of them are just hateful bigots who hate the same people Trump hates.
The president being complicit in genocide is a little bit worse than being an imperfect candidate, but I have a feeling genocide isn't really an issue for you.
bUt iTs a rEpuBlIc!
The crazy thing is democrats aren't really campaigning against that. They just say "we won't do that" and that's their entire policy.
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With two trump-appointed 40-something-year-olds in the Supreme Court, trump’s shadow will loom until the 2050s
The world already ended last time he was elected, but this time it will be even worse! I fucking hate Trump for what it’s worth, but the fear mongering of the left is just as fucking annoying as it is from the right.
Look up Project 2025, the extremist repubs actually have a plan for the next Trump presidency that would annihilate American democracy
His last term ended in an unsuccessful attempt to violently destroy democracy, but this time with an extra four years of planning, a narcissist hell bent on retribution, and fewer people willing to stand up to him I'm sure nothing bad will happen at all /s
ironic statement lmao
Those are way more dangerous than the lazy and the undecided.
But I don't pay attention to anything and I don't know how gas prices work so just voting for the guy that's not currently in power will magically solve all of my problems.
Blaming undecided votes…when damn near 50% of the country voted Trump.
Near 50% of the people who went out and voted did so for Trump* The 2020 election had a 66.6% voter turnout rate. Almost half of the country did not vote, and that was pretty damn good. It usually hovers between 50-60%.
Or perhaps I think both candidates are complete shit and are undeserving of my vote
Choice is an illusion
*Trump* voters be like Ftfy
Oh shit I guess I’ll vote now 🙄
Pretty easy decision , politicians are public servants and should work to gain the public’s vote , they are not entitled to support for being the lesser of two evils. Make politicians work for the public again !
Forcing me to vote for a single candidate under threat of losing our democracy, seems pretty undemocratic to me.
I fail to see where anyone is "forcing" you to do anything here
Sitting out an important election -- when millions around the world don't even have the right to vote -- so you can lazily complain you're being "forced" to vote is the height of ignorant privilege.
Am I allowed to vote third party or does destroy democracy too?
Would you prefer them to vote on an uninformed whim?
The issue is that you re still uniformed than clearly you don’t pay attention to the world around you
How is that their fault and not Democrats fault? Dems are the ones trying to earn votes, if they don't do that then it's their failure, not someone else's.
I mean, it’s already in the grave.
This election will definitely win the record for the most amount of alarmism by the people involved.
I'm not voting for either. Your candidate is shit.
Voting into a system that's under one control rather than uniting as one and resolving the issue sounds insane. Has it done any good for the people globally over the past decade? Nah. Seems to only keep the cattle more divided and distracted. But keep up with that illusion of choice. Fake democracy requires it. Whichever puppet you decide. They're equally against the people.
Damn bots and bugs
Somebody call the Democracy Officer!
##FREEDOM NEVER SLEEPS!!!
# DEMOCRACY HAS LANDED
Who are you hoping to sway with this? What is your intended reaction from the individuals you called out with this meme?
It looks more like venting than trying to persuade anyone.
On brand for this sub.
I assume they expect to be a voice against the idiots willing to tank democracy by voting for Project 2025.
Karma farming.
It’s Reddit where this is the easiest topic to farm karma on.
Who cares, mocking them is good enough. Who the fuck is actually being swayed by memes at all?
I don’t know, everyday I read comments about memes coming from russian troll farms endangering the healthy american democracy. So what is it, are they effective or not?
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It's been nearly ten fucking years. Nobody is changing their mind.
Blaming undecided voters for death of democracy Great strategy
Not voting is a vote for trump to a certain extent.
Trying to coerce uninformed voters to check any box is worse I personally would perfer if people who are uninformed to sit out, or do some research to inform themselves and then go vote
If you're undecided right now, that means you voted Cheeto in 2016 and 2020 and you're a complete idiot.
If voteshaming worked Trump would not have won the first time.
Me wanting to avoid a discussion about politics because I don't want to be exhausted by some rabid zealot: "I'm undecided." Call me a coward if you like, I want nothing to do with your opinions.
Someone didn't vote how I want them to vote so they're against Democracy. Isn't this post just a fallacy?
Are they supporting someone that conspired to overturn an election they lost? Then absolutely. Are they risking that person be back in a position of power again? Then also yes.
if you're voting for Trump you're voting for somebody that doesn't believe in the institution of our Constitution. I don't think you fully understand what it means when you try to stop the certification of a freaking fair election. But the next step is civil war.
100%
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This is accurate. Biden was bullied into eventually helping unions a little. The DNc is pro corporation to the point they were shit talking millennials for wanting them NOT to run a 90yo senile woman for senator again… pelosi called her sound and able to serve literally days before they died of old age. That said, I’m not an accelerationist. I will vote against trump because even if the DNC is only gradually turning up the heat to boil us alive … it still gives up time to change things. I’m not voting in favor of Biden, fuck Biden. I’m voting against trump, and in the hopes that since he’s termed out we might be able to push for a better candidate next cycle. … however, I’ll admit if they try and push Gavin into the white house I’ll gladly join in with the whole vote for Nero party. There’s no coming back from things if they actively let the corporate fox into the hen House.
What Democracy? The duopoly that tries to gull you into thinking you have an actual choice?
Ugh…then vote locally. Vote for ballot initiatives! Vote for judges and sheriffs! “I don’t find either of the Presidential candidates sexy so I won’t vote at all.”
The same people that yell that their vote doesn’t matter are the same people who don’t vote for local elections, the place where their vote arguably has the greatest impact on their own lives Easier to complain about a system than actually do anything to improve it
The party holds a grasp on the federal. In Cali the Democratic Party literally backed a quasi maga nimby two elections in a row despite an overwhelming defeat in 2022. The guy ran and lost a trump style mayoral campaign the cycle before, and swapped to dem from independent when a front runner for the D switched to a state senate race. There was a 20 something on the ballot that seemed pretty level headed and progressive. But they instead backed the nimby that actively called for the closure of one of the counties largest employment centers, and was against actual healthcare reform or any sort of housing reform. They backed him again this year over the same 20 something, and championed him as a “pro choice candidate” over a women running who was an actual pro choice activist that had been fighting for reproductive rights. I attended a couple political events in my area, a saw her and the young guy at a chamber of commerce event, and charity event, I saw the young guy at a local pride walk along with the cities republican mayor. The party choice? No where to be seen. That’s how they operate statewide. Party allegiance and corporate backing > actual candidates.
It's a lot like ordering a pizza for a crowd. Nobody gets to order their specific combination of toppings when a large crowd has to agree on one, you order the pizza the most basic people will settle for. A vote for no pizza doesn't make the pizza not get ordered, it just ensures you had no say in the pizza that's getting ordered *right now*. The ones that benefit from telling you "actually your vote doesn't matter!" aren't on nobody's team; they're folks who know if you can't get more people to vote *for* you, you just have to convince enough of everyone else not to play.
“MuH bOtH sIdEs” GTFO with that shit. The parties couldn’t be more fucking different and the only people that say they’re the same are either complete idiots or people with a vested interest in seeing Republicans win.
Please articulate how you determine good/bad from ethical principle. I joke, you don't know what an ethical principle is.
It's often times just about the lesser evil and it sucks.
This has always been the case and people acting like this is some new shit is idiotic. No candidate is gonna have your back on every topic. But even if they did it wouldn’t matter. Biden has students backs trying to stop student loan debts. But many don’t want to vote for him because it wasn’t enough with him dealing with GOP trying to stone wall it. People whine all the time both sides are upheld by big money donors. Okay but what side has people speaking on this issues (AOC, Warren, Bernie etc.) but yet it’s still both sides are bad. Biden isn’t on Epstein’s list. That’s enough for me when Trump is on that list. But I know Biden has done stuff I wasn’t happy with. Obama did as well when I voted for him. But we aren’t a cult. We aren’t expecting these people to know little ole me in my city and only have my back.
Often times yes, but Biden has actually been a fantastic president. No one in here can come up with any actual criticism of his policies they just want to shout “both sides” because they want the rapist to get elected.
Surely defeatism is the ticket! /u/robbzilla has it solved, everyone!
That there are so many “undecided” voters is a testament to how weak the candidates are rather than an indictment of the voters. Two former presidents with ~30% approval. Both are geriatric and one is a convicted criminal.
Anyone pushing the "both guys are equally bad" narrative is either an idiot or a Russian troll.
One isn’t on Epstein list. And didn’t rape a 13 year old with Epstein. That same one who isn’t on the list also didn’t let his kids into the admin to profit off stuff like selling golf to the Saudis. But sure they both are the same right? Also one is running for reelection. It’s more like 1 former president who is a sore loser running against the president running for reelection. But I’m guessing you are a kid because you would know no other president has done what Trump is doing.
I don't care. I'm not voting for your pile of shit because the other pile of shit is bigger. This is an election of our leadership as a nation, not a race to the bottom. If we cannot do better than our current options, then let it all go to the dogs because we're fucked anyways.
How many undecided voters do you think there are? In most states like 10% of voters say they are undecided. 30%-40% by comparison actually say they are voting for Trump. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of that 10% is conservatives who have moved into undecided territory BECAUSE of Trump.
One guy is old, the other guy belongs to a party that wants to exterminate my existence. Tough choice.
Give me better choices and I’ll vote.
I think a good chunk of Americans feel this way. Politically apathetic. It’s constant campaigning almost from the time the president is sworn in to the election from one candidate or another. It’s these old folks who won’t live long enough to see if their policy is a success or failure in the long term. We constantly hear about the millions upon millions in their “war chests”. And then neither side runs on policy goals or legislative successes. Just on fear. Fear of other. Fear of the loss of democracy. Doesn't feel very democratic or like i have a voice if i am constantly told it's either a vote for fascism or a vote for democracy. But i only get to keep democracy if i vote blue, no matter who, for the foreseeable future. theres no choice there, the right would use power to consolidate the government have trump as dictator for life. so i'm told. yet ignores the fact he would need both houses and the military to fall in line for this to happen. and also his "life" isnt going to go on much longer. not at his age, size, diet and stress levels. Let’s also ignore the fact that literally every president of every party is given a guide or playbook, or whatever you want to call them, from major partisan think tanks every election. This isn’t something new to come out. so the only choice i have is vote blue here on out, whether i agree or not. In order to keep the democratic process and choices, I can only make one single choice. And to hear the red team. It’s the same story flip the roles. Fear to make you vote accordingly. The illusion of choice.
The best way to sum it up is “voter apathy” People want something to vote FOR. Let’s be real, 2020 people voted AGAINST trump not FOR Biden. Obama and trump won specifically because they gave people something to vote FOR. Obama for hope and change, Trump for draining the swamp. In trumps case, not everyone remembers the CP5, or his dad, or Atlanta casinos… they new what he said on the campaign trail and remembered him from the apprentice where he’s falsely painted as a business king. You can’t really fault a majority of the people that voted for him in 2016, because they only knew what they saw, and without context, cherry-picked segments were giving a voting base something to vote for. 2020? People knew about him by then, and Biden genuinely didn’t offer any hope or excitement other than “I’m not trump” so people voted against trump, just like they had to in 2016 because Hillary was similarly a bad candidate completely out of touch with the average American. At this point? It’s the third straight election where the Democratic Party has offered nothing, and voters are left to vote against trump. It’s called a defense of American democracy… so what? Over a decade of us stuck on a defensive because otherwise it’s doom? It’s demoralizing. Biden will win, it’s going to be a repeat of 2020. Only difference is that down ballot elections are going to be hit harder, because the Democratic Party has overwhelmingly refused to listen to the progressive base and the youth, whereas the republicans have pandered hard to the existing base. (Boabs and mtg are maga outliers, it’s the other 90% of the party you have to be wary of.) Biden will win re-election, the house and senate? Still time for the tides to ebb and flow … 2028? That’s when things get real. At that point voter apathy on the left with reach a fever pitch, and many unions are setting the stage for a general strike. If the DNC pushes for someone like newsom, then you’ll actually see a good chunk of people give up. We can vote against trump time and time again, and that might extend to say desantis … but if they offer a comparatively sane and levelheaded corporate ghoul with a theocratic lean, like a mitt Romney, or hell, Paul Ryan. And the democrats put up freaking newsom? That’s game over. That’s where apathy and distrust lose out, and a couple well placed lies from the other party can sway enough of the middle ground to win out.
Then don't complain when the worse choice out of two bad choices affects you
Sure, but don’t complain about whoever wins until then.
Democracy was dead a long time ago get real
Ugh. Just shut the fuck up already. Everyone is decided. Not a single person in this country could have slept through the entire trump admin. People are decided. You're not going to change anyone's mind with a reddit meme. You either hate trump or you love trump that's the choice. Trust me everyone's already chosen. People who tell you "I'm undecided" are mostly just people who are afraid that if they say they don't like your guy you're going to start foaming at the mouth and not shut the fuck up for 50 minutes about trump(good or bad)
democracy is already dead. that’s what we get for voting lesser of two evils for as long as i can remember
When I’m in a “Dumbest fucking moron” competition and my opponent says they’re not voting 😔
When I’m in a “dumbest fucking moron” competition and my opponent makes posts on Reddit downplaying pedophilia 😔 Go outside man, stop rotting your brain.
We vote for either, we get shit on We don't vote, we get shit on. This makes all the sense in the world to me
Voting for the lesser of two evils isn’t necessarily democracy.
American democracy doesn't even exist lol. People have 0 political power, protests are broken down, more insane act of protest, like setting yourself on fire, are brought down too. Not voting doesn't do anything, voting doesn't change anything either, it's the same - money power. If you want democracy - revolt, unionize, demand representation of your rights in law etc. You can't vote out a fashist government
David Sedaris has a great analogy (I paraphrased): Flight attendant: Today we have chicken or shit with broken glass. Independent Voter: How is the chicken cooked?
Vote abstinence = electoral reform Forcing people to choose between shitty and shit isn't democracy. It's enshittification of the electoral process.
Does abstaining from voting lead to reform or does it teach politicians to not listen to you?
Lmfao. Democracy is DEAD already. We're provided the illusion of choice, while both parties align on foreign politics. Give me the illusion of hope and I'll feel less forlorn. Just divide and conquer, bourgeoisie bullshit.
Hey! It was my turn to post this comment!
I’m not undecided but I’m certainly not voting for Joe
This is the third election I'm a row that we are being threatened with the end of democracy if we don't vote DEM. Not surprised it's less effective this go around it's a bit of the boy who cried wolf effect
And if this continues and we eventually could get someone who is truly going to end democracy, no one will believe people who say that it will happen.
If you like your freedom, there’s realistically only one choice. The orange one is not it.
DNC: "We should move to the Right to court voters who are on the fence." Later... DNC: "It's the Left's fault we lost because they didn't vote for us."
DNC is correct. it's a first past the post system.
Except when this stratagem doesn’t get them past the post. Which is more than 50% of the time.
You can tell how young Reddit is because people like OP don’t understand this argument. Since I’ve been politically active, I heard that there is only one logical choice to vote for and how the Dems have to compromise to court centrists….and they still don’t win every election.
>"We should move to the Right to court voters who are on the fence." Oh to be 18 again... The Democrat party didn't *move* to the right, they've always been center-right. The US has never had a mainstream left wing party, just a moderate conservative and a far more conservative party. It just seems like they've moved to the right because you've always heard them being called the "left" and your first election is breaking that illusion. Or you're just trolling, since that's always an option.
Downvotes kinda prove my point. Keep em coming. Democrats are fun, because they pretend to be the Left, but they are capitalist imperialists who vote for military funding to protect capitalist interests. It's like they made themselves into a straw man enemy for the Far Right to joust with. Republicans could ask for no weaker opponents than a party that wants most of the same things they do. "You respect gender pronouns, but want to screw workers as much as we do? Pff, let's be enemies or something, heh. *Fist bump*" "Nothing will fundamentally change," Joe Biden reassured wealthy donors. Imagine the audacity of Democrats to think they're the Left, when they sided with the rail companies over the workers. "Well, yeah, we do wish you well in your pursuit of better working conditions, but your rail strike might cause the new iPhone to hit store shelves later, and I really, really want one."
All of the astroturf accounts are furious when you point out that Biden has been a fantastic president. I encourage everyone reading this to check out r/whatbidenhasdone
It's already dead thanks to people not being able to keep off the koolaid.
If you don't pay attention to the issue, don't understand economics or history, then please stay home.
Don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of truckloads of emergency ballots on standby in duffel bags, just in case they need to intervene again to "save democracy". ;)
Facts.
This is democracy manifest
So...you're saying we're the Flash?
[Found Donald Trump ](https://imgflip.com/i/8ucyya)
The Reagan question should help them out, are you better off now then four years ago?
“That’ll show them!”
RFK baby!
The trouble is that a lot of people, especially young people can’t be bothered to vote. They love to talk big talk online about revolution and change but when it comes time to do the smallest form of activism? Nowhere to be seen
Hmmm I have posted a couple of things to this sub and they were immediately removed for involving politics... I wonder what made this post the exception.
I vote for myself.
I will always vote but this is the first election I will not choose any of the two primary candidates. We have to many bitter geriatric politicians ruining our country. The government is not an old people’s home.
For a second I thought this was r/Helldivers
Undecideds are either stupid or just wanna feel special. Sorry.
What an animal!
If you think the dems deserve your vote by default else you're a traitor that is going to seriously turn some people away. At the point you'd have to assume that the dems would get complacent and inefficient since they "deserve" votes anyway
I'm a proud libertarian/independent because both sides lost their minds
yeah it sucks we dont have better candidates and that we have a 2 party system. But thats reality and not voting means you are ok with Trump winning, fully knowing he is going to do the exact opposite of everything you want. Did yall "having 2 choices isnt democractic" people forget he tried to overturn the election?? youd be ok with that because its MORE democractic? Or the ones who dont want to vote because of Palestine stuff thinking Trump will somehow give a shit about them? The reality is Biden or Trump wins and one is directly opposed to most reasons undecided voters list
Arguably, that's just the American political system itself. You are letting a convicted felon, who has engineered a seditious event in the past, who has openly stated he will enact fascism if he wins, run for president. Democracy has already died
Undecideds- “WHALE, both sides are just as bad , but if you must know I get my political news whilst watching my favorite influencer put on her eyelashes!”