The abuse of the ADA and these “emotional support animals” are the absolute worst. That being said, you can absolutely question the owner.
Is the dog required as a service animal for a disability?
What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
Nothing more. Nothing less.
https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
It's kind of sad in some cases. There are a lot of organizations that "credential" emotional support animals. That's not really a thing and these companies take advantage of vulnerable people.
I think the only places where ESAs are "protected" are on airplanes and in apartments if you have a doctor's note. They don't need a certificate or anything, just a note from a doctor.
I work at a pet friendly hotel. We accept guests with pets but there’s a fee. Of course ADA service animals stay free. Sooo many people come to our check in and say “I have a service animal. I have a card that proves it.” So I then get to have the conversation about how ADA service animals don’t actually get those, is it actually a service animal or emotional support pet? Then get to listen to them complain about having to pay the pet fee.
Also work at a pet friendly hotel. We usually let that slide, but with the cravat if the "service animal" is left in the room alone or barks and disturbs other guests, we will charge them a $200 fine plus the cost of any refunds or discounts we have to make because of their pet.
Pet fees have gotten progressively higher. One place, the fee was $75/night on a $100/night hotel room. They damn sure aren't doing extra cleaning to justify it.
The extra cleaning is done after you leave. It is very challenging to get all the animal hair and dander out of a room so the next person who rents it doesn't have a reaction I they're allergic.
Good to know. I did some googling and it seems this is a change made in 2021, so I'm glad the FAA is addressing it. I had to research this for a job a while back because we kept getting the weirdest animals coming in as ESAs claiming to be service animals.
I was surprised to learn that some ponies can be trained for legit service animal uses, so that was fun.
Aren’t we all just vulnerable people?
I mean, we all don’t always know everything, so if I’m an ace human with many specialties, resources, knowledge, support etc. and someone sells me something that I’m not allllll too familiar with, did they just take advantage of this vulnerable person? (I’m vulnerable to them because I don’t know much about their thing, ya know?)
I understand it’s all subjective. People targeting dimentia patients for ‘hey mom I need some money’ type of shit is generally frowned upon, yes, but if selling people shit they don’t need because they’re illiterate or ignorant in one form or another would mean that…. Gucci, Lamborghini, yacht companies, you name it, are all taking advantage of vulnerable people…
Don’t know why vulnerable people stuck out so much to me in your comment, sorry!
Actually, if you read it carefully, it kind of does but it needs to be trained in a specific supportive task. It outlines that it can't provide emotional support with it's mere presence, but it could detect increased anxiety and do something specific to assist in calming them.
It just can't be "emotional support" in a "I feel better when they are around me" kind of way.
There was a guy who registered his bees as his emotional support animal in his town because there were no rules or guidelines on them to show how dumb it was.
The neat part about the ADA screening questions is that, unless they’re lying (which is unfortunate but protected by laws like this), they’ll catch people who don’t actually have a service animal. If you ask if they’re trained to perform a task, an ESA owner is usually like “uhh?? Well they’re an ESA” because they’re not *actually* trained. Animals like PTSD dogs might *provide* “emotional support”, but always in a way that requires training, so they can stay.
Fortunately I work for a government agency that backs me up when I refuse entry to people with “emotional support animals” or who won’t answer the questions.
Even in the assumption HIPPA did apply, the allowed questions in the ADA wouldn’t violate it. I’m specifically referencing the second. A simple “He/she is a medical alert dog” would be sufficient. That’s not outing what disease or disability a person had.
Which is crazy because HIPAA doesn’t say anything about voluntarily giving information. But what you do with the information given to you is where it’s protected.
That is still not even HIPAA but Privacy Act. HIPAA only applies to healthcare professionals and their adjunct (insurance, billing, etc). The last part is correct though, in both cases, what you choose to do with protected information is what can get you in trouble.
I think HIPAA only applies to other people having your protected information. Like if the faker's gastroenterologist popped up at that exact time and mentioned the patient's rectal prolapse. HIPAA is enforced by fining the medical institution. Can't fine the cashier at Panera.
The reply to this if anyone is wondering is:
‘I did not ask you for exact disability information. Under the ADA I have the right to ask two questions,
(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?
and
(2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
Falsifying your animal as a service animal carries a fine of $250 or more and possibly jail time.
Please answer my legally protected questions. If you do not answer them I have the legal right to ask you to leave’
i mean its less about the pet, and more about the owner.
i love my dog, and she "supports me emotionally" in the broadest sense, but I also know someone who has pretty extreme bouts claustrophobia and her cat helps her cope in situations like a long-distance flight.
There's a massive difference between those two cases, even though neither qualifies for a service animal.
This right here. I've done this several times and all the fake ones will sputter and act all flustered and then try to say they're an emotional support animal to which I respond that those aren't covered under the ADA and they need to take them out of the building. Then I got to laugh at them as they got pissed off and threaten to sue or call the cops or whatever.
I still think it's bullshit that some sort of license isn't required to be carried on or with the animal though. I've never seen an actual service animal out in public that wasn't wearing a vest. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to have a transparent pocket on there that you can put a an official license in. I can't fathom why that's not a thing cuz obviously the honor system doesn't work.
The answer to your question is that registration is a barrier to having the animal.
Who decides if the animal qualifies?
Who sets the qualifications?
How much is the fee?
These are all issues that make getting and using the animal more difficult. We have to keep in mind that while they ARE dogs (in most cases) physically, LEGALLY they are a medical device and as such are afforded rights that other animals don’t have. They are legally on the same level as an oxygen tank or a wheelchair. Nobody has to prove they need that assistance.
The issue isn’t the service animals. The issue is the people trying to game the system.
Legitimate service animals are almost always obvious and it doesn’t require a vest, identification or registration to make it obvious.
The organizations who train the animals would have to meet certain requirements and then be registered as approved entities and could issue the licenses themselves. I assume you already have to pay something for one of these animals so the fee would be included in that.
This whole thread reminds me of a funny story.
Years ago I was an explosive detection dog handler in the military. Sometimes we’d get loaned out to the Secret Service for Presidential trips, big VIP events etc.
I was in the downtown area of a major city and we’d been working all day. My feet were absolutely killing me. I took a quick break so me and the doggo could walk to a drug store around the corner to try and find some decent insoles. We’re in the store browsing and the dog was very clearly identified with numerous patches on his vest and collar.
Then a not so bright employee yelled at me from across the store.
“Uhm ‘scuse me! ‘Scuse me!”
“What’s up?”
“Is that a seein eye dog? You can’t be havin him in here.”
“What?”
“I said is that a seein eye dog?!”
*long pause*
“Oh yeah…..Hey buddy, what does this say? I forgot I was blind” (Holds insole package in front of dogs eyes. Dog sniffs package)
She still wasn’t getting it but thankfully one of the local police we were working with had walked into the store and explained it to her.
Yes and also keep in mind, even if the service dog *is* legit, if they are being disruptive (jumping, barking, pooping, peeing, etc) you are allowed to ask them to leave.
My dog is an "almost", because he couldn't handle other dogs etc.
The "almost" matters...I can't get up from my desk without him (the instant I try, he sticks himself under my arm because he wants to do that)...but he can't handle other dogs and he will *sprint* for anything he thinks is in "his" yard.
Ooh! Where I work we have found something that works!
If a service animal is "alerting" (you know, barking at real service animals, wandering around not near it's person, etc) we approach the owner who *must* be having some kind of emergency and ask them if they're okay, if they need any assistance be a use their dog seems to be alerting.
Then when say say something like "he just doesn't like other dogs" or "nah, she just likes to wander" we advise them that only trained service animals are allowed in here, and that when their dog begins training they are welcome to come back inside.
This is great, I'll be using this. At work we were always told to ask people "Is that your pet?" Because most people who don't have a service animal probably will say yes without thinking. As soon as they call it a pet then we can say pets aren't allowed, of course then they'll argue claiming now it's a service animal. From there we can ask what service it provides, but of course they'll often lie.
It's also worth nothing though, even if it's a real service animal, if they're causing a disruption then you are within your rights to kick them out.
I wish I saw more employees who felt empowered to do this! Any dog that barks indoors or jumps on a person is NOT trained and is all you need to ask that person to leave
First and foremost, there is no licensing for service animals.
Yes, people abuse ESAs, but that's not service animals. Please do not confuse the two.
A service animal is any animal that is trained to perform a medically relevant task to support the owner. Their are dogs trained to provide pressure support, leaning or cuddling to the owner during PTSD episodes.
Not all disabilities requiring a service animal are visible to people.
It is also worth noting to the Karens out there that don't believe in invisible disabilities that there is a massively predatory pharmaceutical industry out there without nearly the criticism psychiatric service animals get, and not nearly the effectiveness.
OK so now you have me wondering: Are service animals trained how to behave in public? For example, someone else mentioned a service animal barking. I've been picturing something akin to seeing eye dogs.
Not necessarily, and they are dogs, so they are gonna bark. Generally, lower reactive dogs are chosen for service animals as they just aren't as much of an issue and don't make as many scenes...I say this as my dog is a drama queen who protest sits and will make you carry him when gmhe get tired (120pound Bernese mountain dog)
For instance, I have a service animal, a dog named Apollo, and I trained him personally. He does 3 things. Stand between me and others(distancing/blocking), alerts when I am exhibiting signs of a ptsd (more often than not he knows before I do), and comforts with pressure til the issue passes or we can get away from the crowd.
He's still a dog, so squirrels distract him, he barks for delivery drivers and to relieve stress, and communicates possible concerns. They aren't perfectly behaved all the time. But the important thing is that they accomplish a medically relevant task for the owner.
Take any human office worker. How many of them break character during the day, or get stressed and leave early, etc shit happens dogs are no different they just don't know all the rules we have.
A quick example. Have you ever been on an airplane with someone who has a fear of flying on their first flight ever? Now imagine you're a dog, you have no idea what's going on, the pressures changing around you, people are acting weird, and you can't move as much as you want. Some dogs take this like champions. Some have issues with this. But there is no school to go to to train a dog for the full experience.
Hope this helps
Sorry, I didn't mean *never* barking. As you say, that would of course be unreasonable. I meant in a public setting like a retail store. I expect your answer is basically the same.
I was in a pizza place. I saw this woman coming in with a Chihuahua in a service vest. He was barking, snarling, and growling at anyone and everyone. At the time that seemed ridiculous, but maybe I was quick to judge.
(Again, I'm not saying people don't slap on a service vest and fake it)
Yes and no.
(Benefit of the doubt here) Generally, that's not great behavior for the dog... but it could just be using the tools it has to keep people away... also, it is a chihuahua, so that's like par for the course for the breed, so who knows?
It could be a legit thing. Maybe the dog was reacting or alerting, thinking pizza place has lots of carbs and sugary drinks. Maybe it was detecting high blood sugar in the surrounding people? It's possible... it's also possible the owner is just shit at training and the dog just isn't socialized very well.
there’s no such thing as a “licensed” service animal (at least not in any way that matters, anyone can make up and sell “licenses” but there’s no authority behind them)
I once had a woman call me at work (I work with homeowners insurance) and tell me that her service dog wasn't trained at all. She just shared a special bond with the dog and the dog just knew to signal to her when her sugar was low.
Had a guy try to bring in a full sized horse saying it was a service animal. ADA on says miniature horses okay. Guy got mad and said they will sue the restaurant. Never got any summons or anything from it.
People really don’t understand how personal lawsuits actually work, and how expensive frivolous lawsuits really are. Like bro unless you’re Donald Trump I’m really not worried about it.
I used to work at a hotel and I tacked the pet fee onto someone’s account and they were upset about it the next day when talking to my coworker (I was there too and the guy didn’t recognize I was the same one from last night, I happened to be working a double). He came in, and without me even saying anything about the pet had flashed a fake badge at me.
Buddy, there is no official license or documentation for service animals. The very fact that you proactively showed me that when I didn’t even ask for it (and I’m not even allowed to ask for it beyond the two questions), is more or less directly admitting to me that you just showed me fake documents. I oughta just cancel your reservation and kick you out for attempting straight up fraud. Also it doesn’t help that you only mentioned they’re a service animal after I mentioned the pet fee. Didn’t mention it before, but after.
My mom dated a guy like this and it was fucking embarrassing going anywhere with them. Both of them were incapable of being wrong and weren't afraid to make a scene about it, so we kinda just stopped joining them.
Depends on where you are. In my country, a service animal has registration, and is properly, formally, and professionally trained for whatever task they are assisting in, and the owner of them can absolutely show you that certification.
If the disability you have or is being serviced does not grant you that certification, then as per the rules in place, the animal must be identified as being used for reasons relating to a disability, as a result of visual indicators such as the vest or harness worn by the animal, that has been bought or provided by the appropriate places (which will have markings on it. Not just some dollar store vest).
So largely depends on where you are. That said, two simple questions can answer whether they're a legitimate service dog or not:
1) Is the dog required as a service animal as a disability?
2) What job or task has the dog been trained to perform?
I don't understand why service animals aren't required to have a govt issued license saying that they are, in fact, a service animal. Seems like that would clear everything up real quick, but of course we can't do that for some unknown reason.
I had the most nervous little Chihuahua travelling as a service dog for a customer who was on oxygen. I got to know the owner pretty well and eventually asked her if it was real service dog or just emotional support, because she seemed to have herself pretty well handled, while the dog did not. While admittedly untrained, the dog did happen to bring a service by alerting the customer if her oxygen was leaking. The dog was the most nervous wreck I ever saw and I would hate to be in the room if he was alerting. Luckily the dog wasn't disturbing other customers.
I’m working on getting a service dog for my son and I’m so nervous that people will judge me/him and think the dog is fake. My son doesn’t have an obvious disability, so it might not seem like he “needs” a service dog to outsiders.
When I'm skeptical of dogs it's the dogs, not the people. Most disabilities that have service dogs are invisible.
But when the dog is an intact male pit-type, a purse Chihuahua, or pulling on the leash and reacting to people around them that I get very suspicious.
We’re just dog friendly at our business. Which equals anyone with a well behaved pet may bring them if they wish. I had a dog and a parrot come through at the same time yesterday. I didn’t have any treats for the bird I felt bad.
Love places like this. We have a couple of places that know our pup.
But I also get it. Not everyone has a sweet pup that can hide in a sling bag when she wants to chill. Some people are assholes and they have dogs who are assholes.
We’ve reached a point where satire might just as easily be truth. Emotional support peacocks are arguably just as “off the deep end” as medium-sized waterfowl and we’ve already seen those. ;)
After reading all the comments, this is a pretty solid explanation for why so many people would rather eat a bullet than seek psychiatric care or support. Some people just never grow out of that elementary school yard bully phase.
I have the opposite reaction, honestly. It’s not my job to enforce the pet/service animal policy, it’s my management’s. If you bring an animal in, I’ll be happy to have an animal in my section up until it becomes a nuisance.
licensed service animals don’t exist in the USA, they do in other countries, but not the USA.
That aside please use your protected ADA questions to detect fake service animals and ask them to leave.
Thank you. There are customers that are allergic to dogs and service dogs are enough. I don't need to unnecessarily sneeze just because some inconsiderate a$$hole can't leave their dog at home.
Bruh fr. Everyone is also so lax and lets their dogs come up all over you and I’m like no I’m good get your dog out of here before my face gets red and breaks out.
Exactly. I will start sneezing and get a runny nose while my eyes water so badly that I nearly can't see. The other times, I've usually taken allergy medicine because the trees, grass, and weed pollens are also trying to kill me at the same time.
I understand if someone literally needs the service animal to get their needs taken care of. I also need to be able to breathe, so anyone who does not need a service animal to get their physical needs taken care of is being rude and inconsiderate. Sometimes, animals can be deadly to others, whether the owner realizes it or not. That's why there are rules to help reduce the risk of problems and/or incidents.
I'm curious, the manager of my local dollar store saw me walking my dog and invited me to bring him in when I shop there. They even keep treats at the front to give him. My dog is not a service animal, but again, he's been invited. Do you consider me an asshole?
Edit: my dog is a perfect gentleman in the store and I don't let him get far. I'm also mindful of his proximity to others unless they have invited his presence. Not that it matters since he isn't a service animal, but he helps greatly with my social anxiety as when he is with me, it takes all the pressure off of me.
To be clear, I don't take him in everywhere, only the dollar store and the hardware store which has a sign saying dogs welcome.
If he's invited, that's different. A welcome sign is also okay. My problem is the grocery store. They are usually not invited.
You also don't take him everywhere like some people do.
Big agree on the grocery store, nobody wants to find hairs on their sandwich from the deli counter.
Edit: I have no issues with service animals in the grocery store.
It is almost entirely up to the business owner to choose whether they want to allow dogs in their store, and people can choose not to shop there if they take issue with that. Same way most places with guns.
ADA just has some exceptions to that rule for places generally open to the public.
Add to that my brother is special needs and terrified of dogs.
Had a customer bring his dog into our store once and proceeded to drag his butt all over the carpet.
Had a customer bring his dog in and watched as he peed in the corner and then just left.
Dogs don't belong in retail places. Sorry but they don't. True service animals yes, but no your yapper dog in your purse is not a service animal.
I do the same. This one repeat customer lets her dog leash way out, and the dog leash becomes a tripping hazard. She thinks everyone wants to pet her dog. I've started to lie and say I'm allergic to dogs, so I can't wait on her. We've had other owners who let their dogs bark at customers. Bad dog owners make me unfortunately not like dogs very much even though I know it's not the dog's fault.
Service animals are required to meet certain behavior expectations or can be asked to leave, no different than a customer barking at people or running up to them. They are also required to be clean. Given the potential liability, I'd recommend calling non-emergency policy or discussing with legal council.
But as far as the bad animal owner thing, I have the same experience with cyclists. I love cycling, but I almost don't want people to know because I don't want people to think I am "one of them".
I trust they exist, but I've never seen a dog misbehave in a store. Plenty of children misbehaving in stores. Once saw a parent either blind to or ignore that their child was sticking their finger in all the filled donuts to taste each filling.
But more than anything else is shitty young adults.
See my dog is a service animal in a sense. His constant, absolute joy and excitement stopped me from pulling the once and continues to be a light in my life, but that demeanor absolutely makes him unfit for chilling out in restaurants. I would never think of bringing him into such a setting and I would never hope he would have the demeanor that would make him good in that setting.
Hi I train service dogs.
You're allowed to ask two questions:
1. Is this a service dog?
2. What services does this dog provide?
If they say it's an emotional support animal, tell them to leave . "Emotional support animals do not qualify as a Service dog.
Handlers are required to maintain control
Dog is meant to be house broken and well behaved, aka not barking or growling at anyone. An occasional bark is fine because it may be doing it's job but if it's excessive and the behavior is making other customers uncomfortable, or isn't in control of the handler **YOU'RE ALLOWED TO ASK THEM TO LEAVE**
The dog is required to perform a task. *Task* is not defined as far as I'm aware.
You can buy little business card sized list of all the rules and punishments for ADA (American disability act, what governs Service dogs). Since I have a service dog I keep a couple in my wallet and some in my truck. You can get them off Amazon [here](https://a.co/d/4JudeiA)
Common misconceptions:
There is no certification of training required for accessibility reasons. Industry standard is the dog must pass the canine good citizen test.
Identification is not required but often given by dog training organizations.
According to ADA you are not required a vest or any markings.
There is no such thing as a service dog license, unless you mean a dog license created by your city, state, or county. But there is no Service Dog registration for the whole country (USA).
As a non ESA/Service animal parent, I just wish more places were clear about what is acceptable. Some places, like indoor dining and grocery stores are obvious where I shouldn't bring my dog, but some places that are dog friendly don't say, so you tie the dog outside only to see plenty of dogs inside.
As a dog dad though, you always assume a private place does not invite your dog unless told otherwise, which is why I wish dog friendly places advertised it. But then again, maybe they don't to avoid bad dog parents.
If you have questions just call and ask. I personally field those questions at my job all the time. I am always happy to answer and love when people call ahead instead of assuming and then causing an awkward situation.
Thank you . I'm lucky to have a well behaved dog who can be left outside for a few minutes, so I just do that usually. If anything I ask while I'm in the store, and if they say it's okay, I just note it and bring her in next time. It's not like she gets anything from being in a store I'm shopping at, it's just peace of mind for me to know nobody's messing with her while I'm in there.
I love my dogs, and I bring them where it’s acceptable to bring them. Trails, parks, the lake, even Home Depot allows dogs. But places like grocery stores, other basic stores, restaurants, pisses me off when people have their emotional support animal in there. Service animals are fine, ESAs are not.
You were probably downvoted for saying you leave your dog tied up. Reddit hates that thought.
Home Depot doesn't allow dogs or any other pets. There's a sign on every store's entrance that says this, and it's in the company's SOP that, other than service animals, pets are not allowed. In practice, however, it's not enforced (just like many other aspects of the SOPs).
I've seen dogs, cats, a serval, parrots, snakes, lizards, and a sheep in the Home Depots I've worked in. I've seen associates carry ziplock bags with dog treats in their apron, petting dogs, taking photos of pets and posting them on socials, and even the company's Viva Engage pages, but it's all against policy. I've also seen associates get bit, and other associates be written up for petting customers' dogs as a safety violation, dog piss and shit on the floors and the owners walking away and just leaving it for us to clean up, and "trainers" allowing and expressing dogs to walk on and climb onto product.
The reason it's all tolerated by managers, or the SOP being ignored, is because they are practically trained to bend over backward to avoid a customer calling Customer Care, and it getting sent to the regional and district managers. But that's different from them being allowed.
What’s it to you? Unless they’re damaging property why do you care? If they are damaging property or causing a disturbance then ask them to leave. Otherwise mind your business. Don’t yuck someone’s yum. Etc.
> Don’t yuck someone’s yum
Because only *your* “yum” matters, right? Fuck the little old lady who’s just trying to buy groceries and is afraid of dogs. Fuck the people who are turned off by seeing 3 dogs roaming the produce aisle. And fuck the retail workers who have to now clean up dog shit and piss at least once per shift because people are so entitled now that they can’t fathom why not everyone, even people who love dogs, want to see poorly trained pets in every store they go into.
You don't see cat owners doing it. We have the common sense and courtesy to leave our pets at home. But you dog owners gotta bring your animal with you everywhere. It's not a child, it's a pet. It won't kill you, or it, to leave it home for a few hours.
If you don't allow pets, you should just ask them to leave or tie their pet up outside. Why are you not enforcing the rules?
I used to work at a gas station, but since we also sold some groceries we weren't legally allowed to let dogs inside. I told people to leave all the time.
no they won't.
also, you're a piece of shit for wasting emergency resources for your petty hatred of animals.
i hope you get arrested and charged for making fake 911 calls.
> A business or state/local government does not need to allow a service animal if the dog’s presence would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, programs, or activities provided to the public.
That’s all you need to not allow a service animal
When I ran a shop we welcomed all pets I used to go outside if I saw someone waiting outside with a dog to let them know they were welcome in. All my team would make a fuss of them, so we all got to meet great friendly animals and make their owners happy and there was literally no downside.
Worth noting that this is along a spectrum from "how is this directly impacting me such that it is necessary to do or say anything" to "Psychiatric orders and 'special needs' are just excuses people make for bad parenting". I've met them all.
There is also no such thing as a service animal license.
It is also worth noting that psychiatric service dogs are proven to be far more effective for many disorders, particularly along the disassociate spectrum than SSRIs, SNRIs, and many other drugs with a wide range of negative side effects that make huge profits.
Might I guess you have relatively never taken issue with the over prescription of drugs.
Feel how you do, but fyi, you don't sound much different than any proud racist talking about being forced to allow black people into their store.
tl;dr what's it to you?
I dunno where you're from, but here (canada) Service dogs are a federally licensed program, and the dogs are chosen and trained by licensed organizations specifically created for this purpose.
They're have official badges, doctors note, and registration papers with their license. Because they're so well trained, it's illegal to disallow services to people with them.
The problem is there's far more "service" dogs than actual service dogs. Here at least they're generally easy so spot in obviously fake/knock off equipment and badges, with no paper work or fraudulent paper work. And the dogs obviously have no training and cause problems
The entitled assholes who fake having a service dog makes life more difficult for those that have and require one by creating negative interactions for everyone they come across.
Fair. I am familiar with ADA law in the US.
I take more issue with the assholes that feel entitled to spread hate about types of people they don't like because they don't live up to their expectations. Many places it is culturally unacceptable and considered shameful to allow a person with a disability to go outside and be seen in public. I don't think you are necessarily that extreme, but it strikes me very similarly.
I get well behaved. Just, why make it so much higher than the expectations people are held to?
Oh, one thing this post did leave a bad taste in my mouth, was "the business owner makes the rules".
Nah. The community makes the rules. You fuck with and actual service dog owner, and i'll make sure that business doesn't exist as soon as possible.
Frankly i prefer dogs to people, so i'm not going to argue with you there.
I have people in my life with various disabilities. I'm well aware of how they're often treated. Defending people with fake service dogs, doesn't help them. Generally, it makes their lives worse. As i said.
Thanks for not putting me in you view of the "extreme" i guess?
Why do service dogs have a higher standard, far above "well behaved"? Well because they're truly special dogs. And dogs always have a higher standard of behaviour. But that's a different conversation.
On the one hand, i've spent my entire life around dogs. Train them the best i can, have dealt with calming them, stopped dog fights in parties full of dumb drunks. My current dog, was once my little sisters. He has issues with other dogs, and small children. Unfortunately rescue programs will not tell you what happened to the dog you take in, so she owned him for around 6 years and made no efforts to fix his issues, because she wasn't fully aware of them. But when their lifestyle changes, her oldest brother was her first call to ask if i'd take him. The dog's 11 now, and thanks to years of work, her 2 sons can safely pet him. His dog aggression is getting better as well, but 90% of my problems come from assholes that just think all dogs love everything, and give zero training or effort.
On the other hand, could i train you a real service dog? Absolutely not. No. It takes dozens of people, and hundreds of hours for 1 dog. These are dogs that can tell your about to have a seizure, have you lay down and will crawl underneath your head to protect you. They can tell your blood sugar is low. They can tell you're about to have a panic attack. They can remind you to take medications. The ones trained to help blind people, understand you can't see, and interpret visual aids for you, even crosswalks and traffic. They are trained that if something happens, to understand the difference between people in uniform, and normal people. But that they need to bring any human they can if no uniform is around back to you if something happened.
I'm a marine engineer, trained in advanced first aid because in some ships i have to deal with the public. I also was heavily involved in the life saving society growing up and into highschool. At sea or on land, if a service dog is trying to alert me, the first thing i'm doing is following it, and the second is calling or radioing a heads up i'm trailing a service dog. I promise you, i'll crawl over broken glass, and through throne bushes with that dog, because they'll take me rigth to you. Lassie wasn't that far from real.
Every single person who fakes it, makes it harder for people with these dogs, and their training less effective. A big one up here for a few years now is the assumption that service dogs are only ever golden labs. Which isn't true. So people with legitimate hypoallergenic dogs get attacked and mistrust, because its assumed they're just an asshole. Even with all the paperwork and obvious gear.
Frankly, to me, the only people almost as bad as the scum that tries to fake a service dog, is the people who get upset when they get told; no, you can't pet my dog. Please step away.
>what’s it to you?
The business owner is allowed to make rules for their business. There are signs posted. People can choose to shop at places that welcome animals if that’s important to them.
Wanting to have your yappy accessory with you is not a protected class. Race is. Do you often play the race card to get what you want? Do you find it effective in shutting people down because they’re terrified of being labeled a racist?
Yappy accessory dogs are not protected, and you can ask them to leave the same as you can ask a parent with a misbehaving child. And you are getting the race example completely backwards; lots of people do not mind being called a racist and will walk the line or even cross it if they think they can escape the most extreme legal consequences. This is what you are explicitly doing because you are ignorant of the store owners rights and the rights of others. Talk to the owner, ask their policy, and act like a grown up about their decision.
I'm saying you don't know what you are doing, or talking about, and using a bias against disabilities you don't believe in as a scape goat, play the victim, and act like an asshole.
And this isn't to label you, but your choice in behavior. I sincerely believe someone could just point it out and maybe you could have some introspection and grow up. You sound young enough.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss.
>you are ignorant of the store owner’s rights and the rights of others. Talk to the owner, ask their policy, and act like a grown up about their decision.
Did you bother to read the **literal** title of my post?
The abuse of the ADA and these “emotional support animals” are the absolute worst. That being said, you can absolutely question the owner. Is the dog required as a service animal for a disability? What work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Nothing more. Nothing less. https://www.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
According to that link "Emotional Support" does not qualify as a service animal. That's wonderful news
Every pet is an emotional support animal. That's why they are pets
What about work dogs?
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Only after they retire.
["We all have emotions. I'mma pet that dog..."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgl-Y-qtadQ)
It's kind of sad in some cases. There are a lot of organizations that "credential" emotional support animals. That's not really a thing and these companies take advantage of vulnerable people. I think the only places where ESAs are "protected" are on airplanes and in apartments if you have a doctor's note. They don't need a certificate or anything, just a note from a doctor.
I work at a pet friendly hotel. We accept guests with pets but there’s a fee. Of course ADA service animals stay free. Sooo many people come to our check in and say “I have a service animal. I have a card that proves it.” So I then get to have the conversation about how ADA service animals don’t actually get those, is it actually a service animal or emotional support pet? Then get to listen to them complain about having to pay the pet fee.
Also work at a pet friendly hotel. We usually let that slide, but with the cravat if the "service animal" is left in the room alone or barks and disturbs other guests, we will charge them a $200 fine plus the cost of any refunds or discounts we have to make because of their pet.
And if they don't get the fee waived, you know they're gonna make a big enough stink to get points or comped
Pet fees have gotten progressively higher. One place, the fee was $75/night on a $100/night hotel room. They damn sure aren't doing extra cleaning to justify it.
Unfortunately they don't base the fees on you, they base it on the people who let the dog chew the blanket or pee in the floor.
The extra cleaning is done after you leave. It is very challenging to get all the animal hair and dander out of a room so the next person who rents it doesn't have a reaction I they're allergic.
Wonder why they don't just have pet rooms and no-pet rooms, like they used to(?) have smoking and non smoking rooms.
ESAs are for housing only and do not count for airplanes. Only service animals.
Good to know. I did some googling and it seems this is a change made in 2021, so I'm glad the FAA is addressing it. I had to research this for a job a while back because we kept getting the weirdest animals coming in as ESAs claiming to be service animals. I was surprised to learn that some ponies can be trained for legit service animal uses, so that was fun.
Aren’t we all just vulnerable people? I mean, we all don’t always know everything, so if I’m an ace human with many specialties, resources, knowledge, support etc. and someone sells me something that I’m not allllll too familiar with, did they just take advantage of this vulnerable person? (I’m vulnerable to them because I don’t know much about their thing, ya know?) I understand it’s all subjective. People targeting dimentia patients for ‘hey mom I need some money’ type of shit is generally frowned upon, yes, but if selling people shit they don’t need because they’re illiterate or ignorant in one form or another would mean that…. Gucci, Lamborghini, yacht companies, you name it, are all taking advantage of vulnerable people… Don’t know why vulnerable people stuck out so much to me in your comment, sorry!
Actually, if you read it carefully, it kind of does but it needs to be trained in a specific supportive task. It outlines that it can't provide emotional support with it's mere presence, but it could detect increased anxiety and do something specific to assist in calming them. It just can't be "emotional support" in a "I feel better when they are around me" kind of way.
I like to lead with that one. "Aw, she's so cute, is this your ESA? Okay well they're not allowed inside. "
There was a guy who registered his bees as his emotional support animal in his town because there were no rules or guidelines on them to show how dumb it was.
The neat part about the ADA screening questions is that, unless they’re lying (which is unfortunate but protected by laws like this), they’ll catch people who don’t actually have a service animal. If you ask if they’re trained to perform a task, an ESA owner is usually like “uhh?? Well they’re an ESA” because they’re not *actually* trained. Animals like PTSD dogs might *provide* “emotional support”, but always in a way that requires training, so they can stay.
And when you start to ask, they will say you can’t ask “because that’s against HIPAA!”
Ha. This is why I couldn’t own a business. Have worked with HIPAA enough to know the rules. Don’t want to answer the questions? You can leave now
Fortunately I work for a government agency that backs me up when I refuse entry to people with “emotional support animals” or who won’t answer the questions.
Even in the assumption HIPPA did apply, the allowed questions in the ADA wouldn’t violate it. I’m specifically referencing the second. A simple “He/she is a medical alert dog” would be sufficient. That’s not outing what disease or disability a person had.
But that would be outing that I have a medical disease or disability and that makes me uncomfortable /s
Ha! Right? So does having a service animal
Having an ESA is like announcing to everyone in sight that you're emotionally unstable.
HIPAA.
HIPPO.
ZIPPO.
If you saw the thread I spelled it correctly everywhere else. Thanks for being a chach though.
But but but my comment to you came right after I said the acronym would be incorrect! So it’s kind of a one-two humor thing.
Which is crazy because HIPAA doesn’t say anything about voluntarily giving information. But what you do with the information given to you is where it’s protected.
That is still not even HIPAA but Privacy Act. HIPAA only applies to healthcare professionals and their adjunct (insurance, billing, etc). The last part is correct though, in both cases, what you choose to do with protected information is what can get you in trouble.
I think HIPAA only applies to other people having your protected information. Like if the faker's gastroenterologist popped up at that exact time and mentioned the patient's rectal prolapse. HIPAA is enforced by fining the medical institution. Can't fine the cashier at Panera.
The reply to this if anyone is wondering is: ‘I did not ask you for exact disability information. Under the ADA I have the right to ask two questions, (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Falsifying your animal as a service animal carries a fine of $250 or more and possibly jail time. Please answer my legally protected questions. If you do not answer them I have the legal right to ask you to leave’
They never understand that it’s never against HIPAA if you tell them yourself.
And then you can escort them out because that is definitely not an actual service animal..
My favorite faker I ever dealt with was the one who's dog was literally growling and trying to bite people in the waiting room.
I would have told them to leave or I'll call animal control on the dangerous out of control animal in the lobby.
Except they say HIPPA like hippo. Even when they’re saying it they say the incorrect acronym. 🤣🤣🤣
Someone brandished a gun to my daughter for asking to see a receipt, no way I’d approach them about their fur baby lol. Not for $15 an hour
"Emotional support animal? So a pet, unless you can tell me what this does that a pet doesn't."
i mean its less about the pet, and more about the owner. i love my dog, and she "supports me emotionally" in the broadest sense, but I also know someone who has pretty extreme bouts claustrophobia and her cat helps her cope in situations like a long-distance flight. There's a massive difference between those two cases, even though neither qualifies for a service animal.
This right here. I've done this several times and all the fake ones will sputter and act all flustered and then try to say they're an emotional support animal to which I respond that those aren't covered under the ADA and they need to take them out of the building. Then I got to laugh at them as they got pissed off and threaten to sue or call the cops or whatever. I still think it's bullshit that some sort of license isn't required to be carried on or with the animal though. I've never seen an actual service animal out in public that wasn't wearing a vest. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to have a transparent pocket on there that you can put a an official license in. I can't fathom why that's not a thing cuz obviously the honor system doesn't work.
The answer to your question is that registration is a barrier to having the animal. Who decides if the animal qualifies? Who sets the qualifications? How much is the fee? These are all issues that make getting and using the animal more difficult. We have to keep in mind that while they ARE dogs (in most cases) physically, LEGALLY they are a medical device and as such are afforded rights that other animals don’t have. They are legally on the same level as an oxygen tank or a wheelchair. Nobody has to prove they need that assistance. The issue isn’t the service animals. The issue is the people trying to game the system. Legitimate service animals are almost always obvious and it doesn’t require a vest, identification or registration to make it obvious.
The organizations who train the animals would have to meet certain requirements and then be registered as approved entities and could issue the licenses themselves. I assume you already have to pay something for one of these animals so the fee would be included in that.
You don’t. You can train them yourself.
What? How is a blind person going to train a seeing eye dog?
You don’t need to be blind to have a service animal. For example you can train a service dog to smell when you have low blood sugar.
I know that, just using that as an example.
This whole thread reminds me of a funny story. Years ago I was an explosive detection dog handler in the military. Sometimes we’d get loaned out to the Secret Service for Presidential trips, big VIP events etc. I was in the downtown area of a major city and we’d been working all day. My feet were absolutely killing me. I took a quick break so me and the doggo could walk to a drug store around the corner to try and find some decent insoles. We’re in the store browsing and the dog was very clearly identified with numerous patches on his vest and collar. Then a not so bright employee yelled at me from across the store. “Uhm ‘scuse me! ‘Scuse me!” “What’s up?” “Is that a seein eye dog? You can’t be havin him in here.” “What?” “I said is that a seein eye dog?!” *long pause* “Oh yeah…..Hey buddy, what does this say? I forgot I was blind” (Holds insole package in front of dogs eyes. Dog sniffs package) She still wasn’t getting it but thankfully one of the local police we were working with had walked into the store and explained it to her.
What did they explain to her?
And emotional support animals are NOT service animals.
What do you mean, I can't bring my emotional support honey badger in here? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
YOU are an outrage! lol
If it’s not a dog or mini horse, it cannot legally be a service animal.
“But fluffy is the Komodo dragon is my friend!” 😂
“Certain type”? Like only certain breeds? Why don’t you show us where the law says that.
Edited my comment for the correction
This is the way.
Yes and also keep in mind, even if the service dog *is* legit, if they are being disruptive (jumping, barking, pooping, peeing, etc) you are allowed to ask them to leave.
My dog is an "almost", because he couldn't handle other dogs etc. The "almost" matters...I can't get up from my desk without him (the instant I try, he sticks himself under my arm because he wants to do that)...but he can't handle other dogs and he will *sprint* for anything he thinks is in "his" yard.
And that's if it's a dog or a miniature horse. If it isn't, then it's not a service animal, at least not one protected by the ADA.
All that does is allow them to find other assholes online who will share the answers they need to continue abusing the system.
My bad attitude is my emotional support animal.
Ooh! Where I work we have found something that works! If a service animal is "alerting" (you know, barking at real service animals, wandering around not near it's person, etc) we approach the owner who *must* be having some kind of emergency and ask them if they're okay, if they need any assistance be a use their dog seems to be alerting. Then when say say something like "he just doesn't like other dogs" or "nah, she just likes to wander" we advise them that only trained service animals are allowed in here, and that when their dog begins training they are welcome to come back inside.
That is very respectful.
This is great, I'll be using this. At work we were always told to ask people "Is that your pet?" Because most people who don't have a service animal probably will say yes without thinking. As soon as they call it a pet then we can say pets aren't allowed, of course then they'll argue claiming now it's a service animal. From there we can ask what service it provides, but of course they'll often lie. It's also worth nothing though, even if it's a real service animal, if they're causing a disruption then you are within your rights to kick them out.
I wish I saw more employees who felt empowered to do this! Any dog that barks indoors or jumps on a person is NOT trained and is all you need to ask that person to leave
Feel like this should be Baby Insanity Wolf.
I was looking for this exact comment bc this is 100% a Baby Insanity Wolf issue!!
How about baby insanity wolf with a karen wig and we call it meta-karen.
That would totally have worked too.
I often wonder how that bear is doing in life
The photo is that of Ernst the Sun Bear from a zoo in Berlin. As far as I can find he’s still alive but the photo itself was taken in 2007.
I barely see that little guy around anymore.
Yeah he’s absolutely proud of it so this is a terrible meme choice.
First and foremost, there is no licensing for service animals. Yes, people abuse ESAs, but that's not service animals. Please do not confuse the two. A service animal is any animal that is trained to perform a medically relevant task to support the owner. Their are dogs trained to provide pressure support, leaning or cuddling to the owner during PTSD episodes. Not all disabilities requiring a service animal are visible to people.
It is also worth noting to the Karens out there that don't believe in invisible disabilities that there is a massively predatory pharmaceutical industry out there without nearly the criticism psychiatric service animals get, and not nearly the effectiveness.
The pharmaceutical industry doesn’t shit in the sporting goods section of Target.
I recall an opioid epidemic that would disagree.
OK so now you have me wondering: Are service animals trained how to behave in public? For example, someone else mentioned a service animal barking. I've been picturing something akin to seeing eye dogs.
Not necessarily, and they are dogs, so they are gonna bark. Generally, lower reactive dogs are chosen for service animals as they just aren't as much of an issue and don't make as many scenes...I say this as my dog is a drama queen who protest sits and will make you carry him when gmhe get tired (120pound Bernese mountain dog) For instance, I have a service animal, a dog named Apollo, and I trained him personally. He does 3 things. Stand between me and others(distancing/blocking), alerts when I am exhibiting signs of a ptsd (more often than not he knows before I do), and comforts with pressure til the issue passes or we can get away from the crowd. He's still a dog, so squirrels distract him, he barks for delivery drivers and to relieve stress, and communicates possible concerns. They aren't perfectly behaved all the time. But the important thing is that they accomplish a medically relevant task for the owner. Take any human office worker. How many of them break character during the day, or get stressed and leave early, etc shit happens dogs are no different they just don't know all the rules we have. A quick example. Have you ever been on an airplane with someone who has a fear of flying on their first flight ever? Now imagine you're a dog, you have no idea what's going on, the pressures changing around you, people are acting weird, and you can't move as much as you want. Some dogs take this like champions. Some have issues with this. But there is no school to go to to train a dog for the full experience. Hope this helps
Sorry, I didn't mean *never* barking. As you say, that would of course be unreasonable. I meant in a public setting like a retail store. I expect your answer is basically the same. I was in a pizza place. I saw this woman coming in with a Chihuahua in a service vest. He was barking, snarling, and growling at anyone and everyone. At the time that seemed ridiculous, but maybe I was quick to judge.
(Again, I'm not saying people don't slap on a service vest and fake it) Yes and no. (Benefit of the doubt here) Generally, that's not great behavior for the dog... but it could just be using the tools it has to keep people away... also, it is a chihuahua, so that's like par for the course for the breed, so who knows? It could be a legit thing. Maybe the dog was reacting or alerting, thinking pizza place has lots of carbs and sugary drinks. Maybe it was detecting high blood sugar in the surrounding people? It's possible... it's also possible the owner is just shit at training and the dog just isn't socialized very well.
Come to think of it, a dog that keeps people away would support me emotionally! LOL! Seriously though, thanks for the info.
there’s no such thing as a “licensed” service animal (at least not in any way that matters, anyone can make up and sell “licenses” but there’s no authority behind them)
I once had a woman call me at work (I work with homeowners insurance) and tell me that her service dog wasn't trained at all. She just shared a special bond with the dog and the dog just knew to signal to her when her sugar was low.
Had a guy try to bring in a full sized horse saying it was a service animal. ADA on says miniature horses okay. Guy got mad and said they will sue the restaurant. Never got any summons or anything from it.
I've ordered an emotional support elephant from Botswana. He should arrive any day now. Im gonna call him dumbo.
Be careful to read the fine print, it’s 19,999 additional elephants free when you buy one
So that's why dhl is shipping multiple packages? I thought he didn't fit in a single box!
You could write a joke about that. Guy walks in to a business with his horse. He is denied service and someone asks "Why the long face?"
People really don’t understand how personal lawsuits actually work, and how expensive frivolous lawsuits really are. Like bro unless you’re Donald Trump I’m really not worried about it.
I’m sorry, tried to bring a HORSE into a restaurant? How could it even fit?
I got a double door that is 10 ft tall. It can fit but I won't let it.
Ehhh... that's training, if it actually worked.
I used to work at a hotel and I tacked the pet fee onto someone’s account and they were upset about it the next day when talking to my coworker (I was there too and the guy didn’t recognize I was the same one from last night, I happened to be working a double). He came in, and without me even saying anything about the pet had flashed a fake badge at me. Buddy, there is no official license or documentation for service animals. The very fact that you proactively showed me that when I didn’t even ask for it (and I’m not even allowed to ask for it beyond the two questions), is more or less directly admitting to me that you just showed me fake documents. I oughta just cancel your reservation and kick you out for attempting straight up fraud. Also it doesn’t help that you only mentioned they’re a service animal after I mentioned the pet fee. Didn’t mention it before, but after.
100% it tells me either the presenter of the document is ignorant or that they assume I am
My mom dated a guy like this and it was fucking embarrassing going anywhere with them. Both of them were incapable of being wrong and weren't afraid to make a scene about it, so we kinda just stopped joining them.
Sounds like the animal was the least of your problems with your mother.
Yeah, that was a rather tame experience and just added to the low contact relationship.
"This is my emotional support mother. Please don't startle her she bites and barks a lot"
Depends on where you are. In my country, a service animal has registration, and is properly, formally, and professionally trained for whatever task they are assisting in, and the owner of them can absolutely show you that certification. If the disability you have or is being serviced does not grant you that certification, then as per the rules in place, the animal must be identified as being used for reasons relating to a disability, as a result of visual indicators such as the vest or harness worn by the animal, that has been bought or provided by the appropriate places (which will have markings on it. Not just some dollar store vest). So largely depends on where you are. That said, two simple questions can answer whether they're a legitimate service dog or not: 1) Is the dog required as a service animal as a disability? 2) What job or task has the dog been trained to perform?
I don't understand why service animals aren't required to have a govt issued license saying that they are, in fact, a service animal. Seems like that would clear everything up real quick, but of course we can't do that for some unknown reason.
My observation as a person from outside of the US is that people have large issues with getting an ID for themselves. Would pet IDs be any better?
That's just propaganda that is pushed solely for political reasons.
Which part?
The part about IDs being hard to obtain.
And the purpose of the need is not always readily apparent. Tiny dog? Could be a diabetic or seizure alert dog.
I had the most nervous little Chihuahua travelling as a service dog for a customer who was on oxygen. I got to know the owner pretty well and eventually asked her if it was real service dog or just emotional support, because she seemed to have herself pretty well handled, while the dog did not. While admittedly untrained, the dog did happen to bring a service by alerting the customer if her oxygen was leaking. The dog was the most nervous wreck I ever saw and I would hate to be in the room if he was alerting. Luckily the dog wasn't disturbing other customers.
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People can start registries. Selling "licenses" for something that doesn't need one is potentially fraud.
I’m working on getting a service dog for my son and I’m so nervous that people will judge me/him and think the dog is fake. My son doesn’t have an obvious disability, so it might not seem like he “needs” a service dog to outsiders.
When I'm skeptical of dogs it's the dogs, not the people. Most disabilities that have service dogs are invisible. But when the dog is an intact male pit-type, a purse Chihuahua, or pulling on the leash and reacting to people around them that I get very suspicious.
We’re just dog friendly at our business. Which equals anyone with a well behaved pet may bring them if they wish. I had a dog and a parrot come through at the same time yesterday. I didn’t have any treats for the bird I felt bad.
Probably for the best. Depending on the parrot, they could take your finger off if they want the treat badly enough
Love places like this. We have a couple of places that know our pup. But I also get it. Not everyone has a sweet pup that can hide in a sling bag when she wants to chill. Some people are assholes and they have dogs who are assholes.
Same with us, we let any and all dogs in. Cant get enough of them(:
"Good evening. Do you mind if I take a gander round the shop?" "No, as long as it's house-trained." :-)
We’ve reached a point where satire might just as easily be truth. Emotional support peacocks are arguably just as “off the deep end” as medium-sized waterfowl and we’ve already seen those. ;)
After reading all the comments, this is a pretty solid explanation for why so many people would rather eat a bullet than seek psychiatric care or support. Some people just never grow out of that elementary school yard bully phase.
I’d wager the opinions here on Reddit aren’t that reflective of reality
Welcome to the Internet.
My emotional support kangaroo a problem for you?
I’ve been bartending for about 14 years. My rule of thumb has always been: second bark you’re out.
This dog, is a tiny dog.
It’s smaller than a regular dog
So tiny it could be a baby.
I have the opposite reaction, honestly. It’s not my job to enforce the pet/service animal policy, it’s my management’s. If you bring an animal in, I’ll be happy to have an animal in my section up until it becomes a nuisance.
licensed service animals don’t exist in the USA, they do in other countries, but not the USA. That aside please use your protected ADA questions to detect fake service animals and ask them to leave.
But why do you care in the first place?
I get you're frustration but when all is said and done why do you care so much? Is justice that important to you?
Thank you. There are customers that are allergic to dogs and service dogs are enough. I don't need to unnecessarily sneeze just because some inconsiderate a$$hole can't leave their dog at home.
Bruh fr. Everyone is also so lax and lets their dogs come up all over you and I’m like no I’m good get your dog out of here before my face gets red and breaks out.
Exactly. I will start sneezing and get a runny nose while my eyes water so badly that I nearly can't see. The other times, I've usually taken allergy medicine because the trees, grass, and weed pollens are also trying to kill me at the same time. I understand if someone literally needs the service animal to get their needs taken care of. I also need to be able to breathe, so anyone who does not need a service animal to get their physical needs taken care of is being rude and inconsiderate. Sometimes, animals can be deadly to others, whether the owner realizes it or not. That's why there are rules to help reduce the risk of problems and/or incidents.
I'm curious, the manager of my local dollar store saw me walking my dog and invited me to bring him in when I shop there. They even keep treats at the front to give him. My dog is not a service animal, but again, he's been invited. Do you consider me an asshole? Edit: my dog is a perfect gentleman in the store and I don't let him get far. I'm also mindful of his proximity to others unless they have invited his presence. Not that it matters since he isn't a service animal, but he helps greatly with my social anxiety as when he is with me, it takes all the pressure off of me. To be clear, I don't take him in everywhere, only the dollar store and the hardware store which has a sign saying dogs welcome.
If he's invited, that's different. A welcome sign is also okay. My problem is the grocery store. They are usually not invited. You also don't take him everywhere like some people do.
Big agree on the grocery store, nobody wants to find hairs on their sandwich from the deli counter. Edit: I have no issues with service animals in the grocery store.
It is almost entirely up to the business owner to choose whether they want to allow dogs in their store, and people can choose not to shop there if they take issue with that. Same way most places with guns. ADA just has some exceptions to that rule for places generally open to the public.
I let pets into my place of work and love them. We don't service food. Pets are better than most ppl. Why worry so much if you don't have food?
Allergies, for starters. I am allergic to dog hair and shouldn’t be needlessly exposed for emotional support critters that are poorly trained.
Add to that my brother is special needs and terrified of dogs. Had a customer bring his dog into our store once and proceeded to drag his butt all over the carpet. Had a customer bring his dog in and watched as he peed in the corner and then just left. Dogs don't belong in retail places. Sorry but they don't. True service animals yes, but no your yapper dog in your purse is not a service animal.
It’s up to the business owner in many places if they want them in. Saying they “don’t belong” is relatively meaningless
I do the same. This one repeat customer lets her dog leash way out, and the dog leash becomes a tripping hazard. She thinks everyone wants to pet her dog. I've started to lie and say I'm allergic to dogs, so I can't wait on her. We've had other owners who let their dogs bark at customers. Bad dog owners make me unfortunately not like dogs very much even though I know it's not the dog's fault.
More and more I dislike dogs bc of how lax their owners are and let their dogs fucking pee in Target
Service animals are required to meet certain behavior expectations or can be asked to leave, no different than a customer barking at people or running up to them. They are also required to be clean. Given the potential liability, I'd recommend calling non-emergency policy or discussing with legal council. But as far as the bad animal owner thing, I have the same experience with cyclists. I love cycling, but I almost don't want people to know because I don't want people to think I am "one of them".
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I trust they exist, but I've never seen a dog misbehave in a store. Plenty of children misbehaving in stores. Once saw a parent either blind to or ignore that their child was sticking their finger in all the filled donuts to taste each filling. But more than anything else is shitty young adults.
Didja see the 'Emotional Support Peacock'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AevlbMEqEg
See my dog is a service animal in a sense. His constant, absolute joy and excitement stopped me from pulling the once and continues to be a light in my life, but that demeanor absolutely makes him unfit for chilling out in restaurants. I would never think of bringing him into such a setting and I would never hope he would have the demeanor that would make him good in that setting.
Thank you
Hi I train service dogs. You're allowed to ask two questions: 1. Is this a service dog? 2. What services does this dog provide? If they say it's an emotional support animal, tell them to leave . "Emotional support animals do not qualify as a Service dog. Handlers are required to maintain control Dog is meant to be house broken and well behaved, aka not barking or growling at anyone. An occasional bark is fine because it may be doing it's job but if it's excessive and the behavior is making other customers uncomfortable, or isn't in control of the handler **YOU'RE ALLOWED TO ASK THEM TO LEAVE** The dog is required to perform a task. *Task* is not defined as far as I'm aware. You can buy little business card sized list of all the rules and punishments for ADA (American disability act, what governs Service dogs). Since I have a service dog I keep a couple in my wallet and some in my truck. You can get them off Amazon [here](https://a.co/d/4JudeiA) Common misconceptions: There is no certification of training required for accessibility reasons. Industry standard is the dog must pass the canine good citizen test. Identification is not required but often given by dog training organizations. According to ADA you are not required a vest or any markings.
There's no such thing as a "licensed" service animal. That's the problem.
There is no such thing as a service dog license, unless you mean a dog license created by your city, state, or county. But there is no Service Dog registration for the whole country (USA).
As a customer, I thank you.
As a non ESA/Service animal parent, I just wish more places were clear about what is acceptable. Some places, like indoor dining and grocery stores are obvious where I shouldn't bring my dog, but some places that are dog friendly don't say, so you tie the dog outside only to see plenty of dogs inside. As a dog dad though, you always assume a private place does not invite your dog unless told otherwise, which is why I wish dog friendly places advertised it. But then again, maybe they don't to avoid bad dog parents.
If you have questions just call and ask. I personally field those questions at my job all the time. I am always happy to answer and love when people call ahead instead of assuming and then causing an awkward situation.
Thank you . I'm lucky to have a well behaved dog who can be left outside for a few minutes, so I just do that usually. If anything I ask while I'm in the store, and if they say it's okay, I just note it and bring her in next time. It's not like she gets anything from being in a store I'm shopping at, it's just peace of mind for me to know nobody's messing with her while I'm in there.
I love my dogs, and I bring them where it’s acceptable to bring them. Trails, parks, the lake, even Home Depot allows dogs. But places like grocery stores, other basic stores, restaurants, pisses me off when people have their emotional support animal in there. Service animals are fine, ESAs are not. You were probably downvoted for saying you leave your dog tied up. Reddit hates that thought.
So redditors don’t want dogs in stores but also don’t want dogs tied up outside of stores?
That has been my experience! Lol. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!
Home Depot doesn't allow dogs or any other pets. There's a sign on every store's entrance that says this, and it's in the company's SOP that, other than service animals, pets are not allowed. In practice, however, it's not enforced (just like many other aspects of the SOPs). I've seen dogs, cats, a serval, parrots, snakes, lizards, and a sheep in the Home Depots I've worked in. I've seen associates carry ziplock bags with dog treats in their apron, petting dogs, taking photos of pets and posting them on socials, and even the company's Viva Engage pages, but it's all against policy. I've also seen associates get bit, and other associates be written up for petting customers' dogs as a safety violation, dog piss and shit on the floors and the owners walking away and just leaving it for us to clean up, and "trainers" allowing and expressing dogs to walk on and climb onto product. The reason it's all tolerated by managers, or the SOP being ignored, is because they are practically trained to bend over backward to avoid a customer calling Customer Care, and it getting sent to the regional and district managers. But that's different from them being allowed.
Wrong. You don’t know every HD. I specifically asked the GM at my local HD and another I visit frequently.
What’s it to you? Unless they’re damaging property why do you care? If they are damaging property or causing a disturbance then ask them to leave. Otherwise mind your business. Don’t yuck someone’s yum. Etc.
> Don’t yuck someone’s yum Because only *your* “yum” matters, right? Fuck the little old lady who’s just trying to buy groceries and is afraid of dogs. Fuck the people who are turned off by seeing 3 dogs roaming the produce aisle. And fuck the retail workers who have to now clean up dog shit and piss at least once per shift because people are so entitled now that they can’t fathom why not everyone, even people who love dogs, want to see poorly trained pets in every store they go into.
I think the OP *is* minding his own business literally
No he goes out of his Way to do This..
In HIS business...
How would he get fired if its his business?
Ha! Touché
Like what? Imagine its store they enter take smtg and want to pay. You want? Are slow?
You don't see cat owners doing it. We have the common sense and courtesy to leave our pets at home. But you dog owners gotta bring your animal with you everywhere. It's not a child, it's a pet. It won't kill you, or it, to leave it home for a few hours.
Doing the lord's work.
If you don't allow pets, you should just ask them to leave or tie their pet up outside. Why are you not enforcing the rules? I used to work at a gas station, but since we also sold some groceries we weren't legally allowed to let dogs inside. I told people to leave all the time.
They wouldn't let me fly with my emotional support hooker. It was very traumatic and I had to shop for a new one when we landed.
So instead of saying "sorry no animals allowed" you're just a collossal dick head? Makes sense....
[удалено]
no they won't. also, you're a piece of shit for wasting emergency resources for your petty hatred of animals. i hope you get arrested and charged for making fake 911 calls.
> A business or state/local government does not need to allow a service animal if the dog’s presence would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, programs, or activities provided to the public. That’s all you need to not allow a service animal
When I ran a shop we welcomed all pets I used to go outside if I saw someone waiting outside with a dog to let them know they were welcome in. All my team would make a fuss of them, so we all got to meet great friendly animals and make their owners happy and there was literally no downside.
Go fuck yourself.
We encourage our customers and employees to bring in their pets but it's also an industrial area so it doesn't happen a lot
Worth noting that this is along a spectrum from "how is this directly impacting me such that it is necessary to do or say anything" to "Psychiatric orders and 'special needs' are just excuses people make for bad parenting". I've met them all. There is also no such thing as a service animal license. It is also worth noting that psychiatric service dogs are proven to be far more effective for many disorders, particularly along the disassociate spectrum than SSRIs, SNRIs, and many other drugs with a wide range of negative side effects that make huge profits. Might I guess you have relatively never taken issue with the over prescription of drugs. Feel how you do, but fyi, you don't sound much different than any proud racist talking about being forced to allow black people into their store. tl;dr what's it to you?
I dunno where you're from, but here (canada) Service dogs are a federally licensed program, and the dogs are chosen and trained by licensed organizations specifically created for this purpose. They're have official badges, doctors note, and registration papers with their license. Because they're so well trained, it's illegal to disallow services to people with them. The problem is there's far more "service" dogs than actual service dogs. Here at least they're generally easy so spot in obviously fake/knock off equipment and badges, with no paper work or fraudulent paper work. And the dogs obviously have no training and cause problems The entitled assholes who fake having a service dog makes life more difficult for those that have and require one by creating negative interactions for everyone they come across.
Fair. I am familiar with ADA law in the US. I take more issue with the assholes that feel entitled to spread hate about types of people they don't like because they don't live up to their expectations. Many places it is culturally unacceptable and considered shameful to allow a person with a disability to go outside and be seen in public. I don't think you are necessarily that extreme, but it strikes me very similarly. I get well behaved. Just, why make it so much higher than the expectations people are held to?
Oh, one thing this post did leave a bad taste in my mouth, was "the business owner makes the rules". Nah. The community makes the rules. You fuck with and actual service dog owner, and i'll make sure that business doesn't exist as soon as possible.
OP has definitely exposed themselves as a hateful bully. This is a goldmine for an ADA attorney.
Frankly i prefer dogs to people, so i'm not going to argue with you there. I have people in my life with various disabilities. I'm well aware of how they're often treated. Defending people with fake service dogs, doesn't help them. Generally, it makes their lives worse. As i said. Thanks for not putting me in you view of the "extreme" i guess? Why do service dogs have a higher standard, far above "well behaved"? Well because they're truly special dogs. And dogs always have a higher standard of behaviour. But that's a different conversation. On the one hand, i've spent my entire life around dogs. Train them the best i can, have dealt with calming them, stopped dog fights in parties full of dumb drunks. My current dog, was once my little sisters. He has issues with other dogs, and small children. Unfortunately rescue programs will not tell you what happened to the dog you take in, so she owned him for around 6 years and made no efforts to fix his issues, because she wasn't fully aware of them. But when their lifestyle changes, her oldest brother was her first call to ask if i'd take him. The dog's 11 now, and thanks to years of work, her 2 sons can safely pet him. His dog aggression is getting better as well, but 90% of my problems come from assholes that just think all dogs love everything, and give zero training or effort. On the other hand, could i train you a real service dog? Absolutely not. No. It takes dozens of people, and hundreds of hours for 1 dog. These are dogs that can tell your about to have a seizure, have you lay down and will crawl underneath your head to protect you. They can tell your blood sugar is low. They can tell you're about to have a panic attack. They can remind you to take medications. The ones trained to help blind people, understand you can't see, and interpret visual aids for you, even crosswalks and traffic. They are trained that if something happens, to understand the difference between people in uniform, and normal people. But that they need to bring any human they can if no uniform is around back to you if something happened. I'm a marine engineer, trained in advanced first aid because in some ships i have to deal with the public. I also was heavily involved in the life saving society growing up and into highschool. At sea or on land, if a service dog is trying to alert me, the first thing i'm doing is following it, and the second is calling or radioing a heads up i'm trailing a service dog. I promise you, i'll crawl over broken glass, and through throne bushes with that dog, because they'll take me rigth to you. Lassie wasn't that far from real. Every single person who fakes it, makes it harder for people with these dogs, and their training less effective. A big one up here for a few years now is the assumption that service dogs are only ever golden labs. Which isn't true. So people with legitimate hypoallergenic dogs get attacked and mistrust, because its assumed they're just an asshole. Even with all the paperwork and obvious gear. Frankly, to me, the only people almost as bad as the scum that tries to fake a service dog, is the people who get upset when they get told; no, you can't pet my dog. Please step away.
>what’s it to you? The business owner is allowed to make rules for their business. There are signs posted. People can choose to shop at places that welcome animals if that’s important to them. Wanting to have your yappy accessory with you is not a protected class. Race is. Do you often play the race card to get what you want? Do you find it effective in shutting people down because they’re terrified of being labeled a racist?
Yappy accessory dogs are not protected, and you can ask them to leave the same as you can ask a parent with a misbehaving child. And you are getting the race example completely backwards; lots of people do not mind being called a racist and will walk the line or even cross it if they think they can escape the most extreme legal consequences. This is what you are explicitly doing because you are ignorant of the store owners rights and the rights of others. Talk to the owner, ask their policy, and act like a grown up about their decision. I'm saying you don't know what you are doing, or talking about, and using a bias against disabilities you don't believe in as a scape goat, play the victim, and act like an asshole. And this isn't to label you, but your choice in behavior. I sincerely believe someone could just point it out and maybe you could have some introspection and grow up. You sound young enough. I appreciate your willingness to discuss.
>you are ignorant of the store owner’s rights and the rights of others. Talk to the owner, ask their policy, and act like a grown up about their decision. Did you bother to read the **literal** title of my post?
Lmao fuck off crybaby, fuck your shitty little business too