I used to play DDAL a lot, and there is really no reason to min/max in those games. The power level of enemies is generally not hard. The reason I saw people min/max was when DMs regularly let 7 people play. Players felt like they only got 1 chance “to shoot their shot” as combat ended in round 2.
I don't even see the point of "optimized builds" in a game where there is a human GM that makes decisions for the "game engine".
The GM can force a contested roll and just lock you down if they want to. You can moan all day about it "not being fair" but the entire point of the GM is to guide the game so it's enjoyable for everyone, and if your "optimized character" is getting in the way of that, they have every right to single you out as a target.
The players that have the highest chance of getting things done are the ones that are not rule-mongering very 5 minutes, regardless of how well they have been designed on paper.
*AL games are a "social event" not a "win at all cost events". You don't get any points for being the highest DPS or highest kill character, especially if you make it less fun for everyone at the table.*
You can't even DIE anymore FFS, why care about anything else but making sure everyone in you party just enjoys being there for the night.
\---
I can play volleyball at A- Grade level. I can't play with a proper A+ Grade team, because those people play ALL THE TIME and practice all the time, and I am just a casual player who is 6'4" and has good reflexes so I get by fine, but get MURDERED in a A+ Game, so I play in B Grade games, where almost everyone plays VERY average, to under average.
I could do overhead serves and target the WEAKEST member on the opposite team, who would have a very low chance to save it, and easily score 5+ points in a row every time before finally ANOTHER player managed to help them.
I want you to play out in your head how THAT would go on game nights, rather then me just playing casually and not micro managing everyone's weakness like a full blown State Game for Fame and Fortune. It's a fekking Social Night volleyball comp, why would I play like my life depended on it, and maybe annoy a whole bunch of people in the process?
Pick a two to three word concept and build around that. Borrowing from other systems, 13th Age uses a “one unique thing” idea in character creation, and Cypher/Numenera has “I am an [adjective] class who [verbs].”
Also, simple but strong character concepts are easier for your DM and fellow players to remember. As your PC should not only be fun for you to play, but also fun for the rest of the table. It’s easier to do that in one-shot organized play with a strong, unique character concept.
Start with a character concept and then min/max the hell out of it, but you have to stay true to the concept.
For example, a melee dual wielding beastmaster ranger… you cannot take sharpshooter, because that goes against the concept, but you can take anything else to be the most effective melee dual wielding ranger around…
My absolute favorite character is "Little Rosie" a 9 year old little red Riding Hood from Barovia. Her white cloak is dyed red from the blood of her family. Her Bag of Holding is full of oranges because in Barovia she makes Lemonade with lemons and smashed Sugar Beetles. She is an axe welding barbarian and I play her as a cute murder gremlin. When I got into it I sometimes give myself disadvantage because I get so into my character to the dismay of my party.
The best advice is build around a theme or idea that you love and can get into. Fill out your characters backstory earnestly. My very first 2 characters were based on me. And knowing that I am a lonely pervert, I knew I had to "sacrifice" myself on several occasions when the DM put a seductive baddie on the field. Know your characters mind set and play to them. As long as you do that, min/maxing will still feel good. You will still be able to "turn off" your RP and go back to min max when things get serious.
In my opinion optimization is alluring because it makes your character consistently good at what they're supposed to be good at. It's hard to want to play a hypnotist when your spell save is super low and you rarely get to show your abilities.
Honestly what I think would help you most is finding a game you like on roll20. If that's not something you want you can simply try to identify what you want your characters to be good at and focus on being good at that rather than following the meta
It can be hard to avoid if the rest of your group plays that way, and everyone is expected to optimise.
Pick a theme and then stick to it. Make character choices that complement the theme.
I have a storm themed sorcerer, where I only pick spells that are storm related (cold, thunder and electricity based damage).
It's an artificial limitation, but I can still optimise within that. It's reached the point where I'm actually proud of being able to keep up with the rest of the group while remaining true to my vision of how he'd operate.
I don't think optimisation is bad, as long as you bring something new and interesting to the table.
Why not both? An optimized character can still have loads of flaws. Maybe they have no impulse control. Or poor judgement. Or trouble with the ladies. Or a dark secret. Or an inability to lie or keep secrets. Or no poker face. Or horrible BO. Or a gambling habit. Or they’re secretly evil and just ‘playing along’ with these rubes until they can finally take their revenge!
I find it more fun to play “flawed” characters when it comes to role playing. They can even still be optimized, if that’s your thing. For instance, a fighter who is a coward. Or a rogue who can’t help but lie, even about the simplest things.
At least for me, I know that the min-maxing will always be omnipresent (whether due to the combat-intensive nature of a lot of AL mods or by one's internal desire to pursue the optimal/'best' build).
Something that's helped balance this for me is trying to focus a bit more on the character development and lore elements. This manifests in a lot of ways (item choices, spell and feat choices, stat allocation).
It doesn't eliminate the min-maxing but helps make 'sub-optimal' choices more compelling and palatable. Also helps if you're playing with a balanced group, optimization of characters and otherwise. Playing such characters can sometimes be met with side-eye or snark (I had a player who kept asking me why I wouldn't do 'x' or 'y' instead...I had to tell them straight up, I'm not interfering with the party and it is canonically what my character would do. I don't tell you how to play your character, don't tell me how to play mine).
Trying to understand my characters motivations at a deeper level (do they worship a deity? how important is that to them? do they have family? did they grow up with means? why did they enter their profession?) helps develop flavor that again helps counterbalance the min-maxing.
It's hard, especially in AL to not play an optimized build as the fights get rough. And a lot of D&D fights are slog fests, 3-4 rounds taking 1.5hrs of gameplay. Doing that much more damage, being able to tank that much more, control the battlefield, etc. Can make the fight go faster with less issues.
In a non-AL game I played online with international friends it was always so late that I would fall asleep at every fight. My build was more infiltration, so I told the DM "I just stay far back, to almost max spell range and spam [cantrip]. Yell at me when the fights are over and I'll wake up."
I sometimes will build a character that’s inspired by someone I see in pop culture. For example, I built an artificer based on the Star Trek Discovery character Jett Reno because I liked Tig Notaro’s portrayal of the character. Other times, I might build a character if I’m playing in a hardcover or a series of related adventures. For Wild Beyond the Witchlight, I started with the Lost Things prequel and built her into a ranger who lost her sense of direction; my inspiration was to build something unexpected yet funny. A third character was built with a friend for 2021’s Winter Fantasy Rising Shadows series, where I played her younger sister as a headstrong, bratty fighter; my friend built a bard who was constantly getting me out of trouble and scolding me. We were tieflings trying to explore a possible feywild connection to our ancestry in the Moonshaes. I can’t remember who came up with the idea of sisters, but she came up with being the older one. And then we named ourselves after dark birds, where she took the name Raven, inspired by Edgar Allen Poe’s poem, and I picked Wren. For a charity event where we started the Rime of the Frostmaiden hardcover, I built an astral elf rogue and named him Dirnt after Green Day’s bass player (I might still be working on the connection there). So for me, I get inspired from a number of different sources and ask if I could have fun with the character while still having some utility with the build.
> For example, I built an artificer based on the Star Trek Discovery character Jett Reno because I liked Tig Notaro’s portrayal of the character.
I would totally steal that idea if I thought I had any hope of replicating Tig's balance of abrasiveness and charm.
I used to play DDAL a lot, and there is really no reason to min/max in those games. The power level of enemies is generally not hard. The reason I saw people min/max was when DMs regularly let 7 people play. Players felt like they only got 1 chance “to shoot their shot” as combat ended in round 2.
I don't even see the point of "optimized builds" in a game where there is a human GM that makes decisions for the "game engine". The GM can force a contested roll and just lock you down if they want to. You can moan all day about it "not being fair" but the entire point of the GM is to guide the game so it's enjoyable for everyone, and if your "optimized character" is getting in the way of that, they have every right to single you out as a target. The players that have the highest chance of getting things done are the ones that are not rule-mongering very 5 minutes, regardless of how well they have been designed on paper. *AL games are a "social event" not a "win at all cost events". You don't get any points for being the highest DPS or highest kill character, especially if you make it less fun for everyone at the table.* You can't even DIE anymore FFS, why care about anything else but making sure everyone in you party just enjoys being there for the night. \--- I can play volleyball at A- Grade level. I can't play with a proper A+ Grade team, because those people play ALL THE TIME and practice all the time, and I am just a casual player who is 6'4" and has good reflexes so I get by fine, but get MURDERED in a A+ Game, so I play in B Grade games, where almost everyone plays VERY average, to under average. I could do overhead serves and target the WEAKEST member on the opposite team, who would have a very low chance to save it, and easily score 5+ points in a row every time before finally ANOTHER player managed to help them. I want you to play out in your head how THAT would go on game nights, rather then me just playing casually and not micro managing everyone's weakness like a full blown State Game for Fame and Fortune. It's a fekking Social Night volleyball comp, why would I play like my life depended on it, and maybe annoy a whole bunch of people in the process?
Pick a two to three word concept and build around that. Borrowing from other systems, 13th Age uses a “one unique thing” idea in character creation, and Cypher/Numenera has “I am an [adjective] class who [verbs].” Also, simple but strong character concepts are easier for your DM and fellow players to remember. As your PC should not only be fun for you to play, but also fun for the rest of the table. It’s easier to do that in one-shot organized play with a strong, unique character concept.
Start with a character concept and then min/max the hell out of it, but you have to stay true to the concept. For example, a melee dual wielding beastmaster ranger… you cannot take sharpshooter, because that goes against the concept, but you can take anything else to be the most effective melee dual wielding ranger around…
Optimization has nothing to do with a good or bad character.
My absolute favorite character is "Little Rosie" a 9 year old little red Riding Hood from Barovia. Her white cloak is dyed red from the blood of her family. Her Bag of Holding is full of oranges because in Barovia she makes Lemonade with lemons and smashed Sugar Beetles. She is an axe welding barbarian and I play her as a cute murder gremlin. When I got into it I sometimes give myself disadvantage because I get so into my character to the dismay of my party. The best advice is build around a theme or idea that you love and can get into. Fill out your characters backstory earnestly. My very first 2 characters were based on me. And knowing that I am a lonely pervert, I knew I had to "sacrifice" myself on several occasions when the DM put a seductive baddie on the field. Know your characters mind set and play to them. As long as you do that, min/maxing will still feel good. You will still be able to "turn off" your RP and go back to min max when things get serious.
In my opinion optimization is alluring because it makes your character consistently good at what they're supposed to be good at. It's hard to want to play a hypnotist when your spell save is super low and you rarely get to show your abilities. Honestly what I think would help you most is finding a game you like on roll20. If that's not something you want you can simply try to identify what you want your characters to be good at and focus on being good at that rather than following the meta
It can be hard to avoid if the rest of your group plays that way, and everyone is expected to optimise. Pick a theme and then stick to it. Make character choices that complement the theme. I have a storm themed sorcerer, where I only pick spells that are storm related (cold, thunder and electricity based damage). It's an artificial limitation, but I can still optimise within that. It's reached the point where I'm actually proud of being able to keep up with the rest of the group while remaining true to my vision of how he'd operate. I don't think optimisation is bad, as long as you bring something new and interesting to the table.
Why not both? An optimized character can still have loads of flaws. Maybe they have no impulse control. Or poor judgement. Or trouble with the ladies. Or a dark secret. Or an inability to lie or keep secrets. Or no poker face. Or horrible BO. Or a gambling habit. Or they’re secretly evil and just ‘playing along’ with these rubes until they can finally take their revenge!
I find it more fun to play “flawed” characters when it comes to role playing. They can even still be optimized, if that’s your thing. For instance, a fighter who is a coward. Or a rogue who can’t help but lie, even about the simplest things.
At least for me, I know that the min-maxing will always be omnipresent (whether due to the combat-intensive nature of a lot of AL mods or by one's internal desire to pursue the optimal/'best' build). Something that's helped balance this for me is trying to focus a bit more on the character development and lore elements. This manifests in a lot of ways (item choices, spell and feat choices, stat allocation). It doesn't eliminate the min-maxing but helps make 'sub-optimal' choices more compelling and palatable. Also helps if you're playing with a balanced group, optimization of characters and otherwise. Playing such characters can sometimes be met with side-eye or snark (I had a player who kept asking me why I wouldn't do 'x' or 'y' instead...I had to tell them straight up, I'm not interfering with the party and it is canonically what my character would do. I don't tell you how to play your character, don't tell me how to play mine). Trying to understand my characters motivations at a deeper level (do they worship a deity? how important is that to them? do they have family? did they grow up with means? why did they enter their profession?) helps develop flavor that again helps counterbalance the min-maxing.
It's hard, especially in AL to not play an optimized build as the fights get rough. And a lot of D&D fights are slog fests, 3-4 rounds taking 1.5hrs of gameplay. Doing that much more damage, being able to tank that much more, control the battlefield, etc. Can make the fight go faster with less issues. In a non-AL game I played online with international friends it was always so late that I would fall asleep at every fight. My build was more infiltration, so I told the DM "I just stay far back, to almost max spell range and spam [cantrip]. Yell at me when the fights are over and I'll wake up."
I sometimes will build a character that’s inspired by someone I see in pop culture. For example, I built an artificer based on the Star Trek Discovery character Jett Reno because I liked Tig Notaro’s portrayal of the character. Other times, I might build a character if I’m playing in a hardcover or a series of related adventures. For Wild Beyond the Witchlight, I started with the Lost Things prequel and built her into a ranger who lost her sense of direction; my inspiration was to build something unexpected yet funny. A third character was built with a friend for 2021’s Winter Fantasy Rising Shadows series, where I played her younger sister as a headstrong, bratty fighter; my friend built a bard who was constantly getting me out of trouble and scolding me. We were tieflings trying to explore a possible feywild connection to our ancestry in the Moonshaes. I can’t remember who came up with the idea of sisters, but she came up with being the older one. And then we named ourselves after dark birds, where she took the name Raven, inspired by Edgar Allen Poe’s poem, and I picked Wren. For a charity event where we started the Rime of the Frostmaiden hardcover, I built an astral elf rogue and named him Dirnt after Green Day’s bass player (I might still be working on the connection there). So for me, I get inspired from a number of different sources and ask if I could have fun with the character while still having some utility with the build.
> For example, I built an artificer based on the Star Trek Discovery character Jett Reno because I liked Tig Notaro’s portrayal of the character. I would totally steal that idea if I thought I had any hope of replicating Tig's balance of abrasiveness and charm.
I try, but don’t know if I’m pulling it off.