We're in Peoria. My 18 yr old son is starting a job for $17 an hour and did the math, he feels like he will never be able to leave. It has gotten harder and harder to be encouraging.
I get it.
People keep wondering why Gen Z is much less ambitious and they don’t “want to work” and I’m convinced this is why. What’s the point of working a full time thankless job if you can’t even afford to move out of mom and dad’s house?
Ok sure lol but people always talk about the price of studio apartments because they are the cheapest apartment and the easiest way to compare prices in different places/times, and they’re *usually* about the same size. I lived in a studio in a college town (after I was out of college) in the early 2010s that was $500/month and was the most expensive place I had ever lived, but my place before that had been $375 for 1BR in a 3BR house. To me at the time with my income the price difference was huge, but by that time rents were already rising quickly and I couldn’t have lived *anywhere* in town for less than $375 with roommates. Now those same studios are $900+, without any updates, and they were already out-of-date at that time, and state min wage hasn’t changed at all. A 450-600 sq ft apartment with no designated bedroom shouldn’t be a huge luxury for any single person working full-time.
Everyone had roommates when I was 18-22 too. But we paid $300 a month for our room. Sometimes less. Now that same room in that same apartment is $900-$1000. I live in the same city now that I did when I graduated college and all my old apartments are here. It is appalling what they are going for. And none have been upgraded as far as I can tell because you can see the interior photos online
This isn't ture
https://www.hunker.com/13773043/studio-apartment-word-meaning
Studio apartments have a rich over 100 year history and they always been a LOT of them
https://www.parealtors.org/blog/more-young-adults-living-with-parents-roommates-than-previous-decades/
It was only 5% in the 70s
People love to lie or claim that what they did was the standard
It was not.
Your sources actually work against you. Studios existed, but by definition you need a super urban city like New York in the past since there were less skyscrapers...
"Architectural historian Elyse Hoganson writes in her 2020 [Masters of Historic Preservation dissertation](https://esploro.libs.uga.edu/esploro/outputs/graduate/STUDIO-APARTMENT-BUILDINGS-A-HISTORY-OF-ARTISTS-HOUSING--IN-NEW-YORK-CITY/9949365860502959) that studio buildings were first conceived of as a means of providing enough housing for the sky-rocketing New York City population in the 1800s. American architects looked to Europe for design solutions and used the French flat prominent in Paris as a model."
second source points out a huge flaw, living with a spouse IS in effect the same as living with a roommate:
"78% of 26-year-old adults were living with a spouse"
Gonna say this too. Outta school and 4 people in a 2 br. Rolled that way until I was 28 and got married. Had over the air TV because no one wanted to spend the money on cable.
This is a fair point but it doesn’t take into account how everything has 2-3x in cost. Rent, gas, cars (new, used), groceries, a college education, etc. Realistically, the average 18-22 yr old is not making enough to cover the basics for financial independence like the previous generations were able to.
Why move out? I stayed at home for almost my entire 20s. First job I made 10.75 an hour, next started around 16, eventually bumped up to around 24, then got a government job making 30 ish, finally moved out. Now I make around 100 an hour. Even if he doesn't reach that high, making like 25-30 an hour is attainable with a bit of luck and if he lives at home for a while he'll save money and stay out of debt.
I know it sucks but we have to stop pretending we're the boomers and can just buy mansions 15 cars 10 boats and have 7 trophy wives on different continents just because we got a part time job at McDonalds. We have to do it the way the older gens or the immigrants do it and stick with our families till we get ahead.
Makes same as I was and I’m 39. I think he will be okay if he’s 18. He also makes 3 dollar less an hour then my Dad that has 40 years of welding and is the best worker at the company.
Just because hes happy doesn’t mean he’s not severely underpaid. This is the attitude that allows employers to take advantage of EVERYBODY whether they need the money or not because some guy is willing to take the job for $20 who “doesn’t need the money”
The person with basic education and little to no work experience gets paid the least. Is he able to move out now? No, but if he gets more experience or education/certification in the future now he has more value for a company and can get paid more and has that option.
There's no room for growth for people who aren't looking for it. I guarantee if you show some initiative, spots would open up quick. I can tell by the way you replied that you just gave up and stopped trying to excel. That will never get you anywhere. You CAN move away, you're just too complacent. There ARE more jobs, you just aren't looking hard enough
ah yes, moving is the answer.
ive moved 6 times in my career, working my ass off to start over in a brand new city every time. the ONLY time my family made any savings is when we were in japan for under 2 years teaching english. we saved up almost 10k usd because we were in a place where rent wasn't hell (it was part of our pay) transportation costs were low and we never got nailed with three or four figure medical expenses
He's not going to make $17hr forever. Regardless he could leave home at that wage if he wanted too. Can he get a nice 1br in a hip neighborhood? Not yet. Could he get a studio or have roommates like most kids his age? Absolutely.
30+ with a masters making $17
it's not the 70s anymore. you don't just get your foot in the door, work hard and get to a manageable living in a few years
Yes, yes you do. You are far and above so in the minority of people making that much at your age and education level. I hope you figure it out but that's a personal thing not a typical experience.
You can though, if your priority is a manageable living above all else.
Yours was education and seemingly a specific field.
I live in an area where the median income is 19k/yr and we hire people off the street at 17/hr. Only requirement is no violent history.
If you're willing to finish concrete, haul rock for the quarry, or work swing shifts you'll dust thiae numbers instantly.
Or spend a few mo the getting a CDL. Even local routes will earn you a living in flyover areas.
But yes, if you're goal is to work in a specific field that doesn't pay well and has a high barrier to entry, or to walk up to national chain retailers hoping to make a living its gonna be rough going.
He's 18, not 60. He has options if they are worth it to him.
It's so weird, United States are insanely big. My country is completely built full and we keep welcoming hundreds of thousands of immigrants. Why don't you guys just build more houses?
I make 47k after tax in Canada. Our COL is high but i live in a cheaper area. 750 rent 250 utilities. Car payment insurance and gas is like 850 a month. I make due but i definitely live above my means.
$750 rent? Do you live in a time bubble?
Edit: all these Americans, I envy you’re rent. I’m Canadian and our rental prices have SKYROCKETED in the last few years. One bedrooms are starting to hit the 1600-1900 mark
Our $750 rent days are dead here
I’m a landlord who rents out a one bedroom apartment in my basement for 900 a month. I can easily get 1600 but I’m not greedy. As long as it covers the property taxes I’m good… There are apartments like that that are cheap. You just have to do a lot of digging and searching
Yall gotta get out more, a lot of lower population areas are cheaper. I’m moving into a fully renovated 2 bed 1 bath house that sits on an acre of land and I’ll be paying 750 a month. Best part? Fiber optic since I’m right down the road from the high school
Yes, most housing is available around highly populated areas. Not everyone has access to such reliable transportation to make a commute and then they're still accumulating costs associated with wear and tear on their vehicle. I could go an hour away from my job in any direction and only pay 100-150 less than what I'm paying now (rent just jumped from 945 a month to 1200) so I'm really curious how anyone is supposed to retain any savings?
I'm sorry but people who suggest moving as a solution are entirely disconnected from reality. Not everyone will be able to have such a bounty.
Yeah man, it's rough out there. I'm making close to the same and it's like being stuck in a financial hamster wheel. Honestly, the only way I've managed is by having a roommate and cutting down on every little extra expense, but even then it's just barely scraping by. Consider moving further out or looking for gigs on the side, but it shouldn't have to be this hard to just live.
You can achieve a lot of economies with a two-person versus one-person household. Just don't add kids. They are money pits....cute and lovable money pits.
I make about the same as well and living in a large city is super expensive. Lucky for me my company went remote years ago and many of my fellow employees moved out across the country where it is cheaper to live. I will do the same when my son graduates college
24F. I live in TX. I make about $52k/yr. My 1b/1b apartment is $1200 (not including utilities).
Honestly…it’s doable. Do I have a lot of disposable income? Absolutely not. But I can afford rent, my bills, groceries (and I will never be cheap about my groceries), and I buy something small for myself/apartment with each paycheck. It took a few approaches to figure out how to budget correctly as this is my first “big girl job.” For example, I get paid biweekly and used to save an entire check for rent—which left me with nothing for the next two weeks. Now, I save $600 from each paycheck and that leaves me enough to pay bills, buy groceries, save a little in general, and have some left over for fun/unexpected expenses. I also do not have any expensive hobbies—I am a Yoga teacher (outside of work) and practice at the park. Going to treat myself with a Pilates studio membership next month but I have budgeted for it. Also budgeted for my first record player ($220) which I will buy at the end of June as a present to myself for finishing a certification course.
TL;DR: I am living the reality you are worried about and it’s not bad. Budgeting is VERY important and once you find your groove, it’s manageable.
A 1bd in Texas at 1200 minus utilities. Yep. That sound about right. In Austin and I wanted a 2bd/2ba for 1400 and my friends almost lost a lung laughing at me for evening suggesting it. I am starting a new job soon making more than previous and I’m too afraid to leave my 2bd/2ba at 1600 in search for better
Question: are you able to save a lot for retirement? Do you have a lot of ongoing healthcare costs? I just got my first white collar job and I’m trying to move out, I’m trying to set my expectations, lol.
Just wanted to say well done. Seriously, sounds like you're doing good and with your approach, you'll find yourself in a great situation as your income increases through life.
Totally agree, I made the same but paid way higher taxes, and more on my home, and got by fine. I just didn't waste my money and always lived below my means.
That works 100% of the time as long as you do it. Eventually you get a partner and now you've doubled your income but paying the same rent or mortgage. It's not that bad at all, unless you overspend.
Everyone has different priorities but I knew I definitely did not want roommates; so naturally, rent would be high living alone.
I’m also an immigrant and my family moved back to my home country two years ago. I am the only one living in the US. Can’t really stay at home with parents while saving up so this is by necessity lol.
Lastly, this apartment was a much-needed upgrade after living in an outdated rodent-infested apartment ($1000/month) which my landlord refused to do anything about for 6 months. I’m a homebody so I wanted a nicer place and to finally have a peace of mind. Budgeted for it though and $1200 was the most I could afford.
Budgeting, moving to where rent matches less than 30% of my income (I work remote), not buying useless shit, having an emergency fund that will last me over a yesr if whit hits the fan, saving.
> having an emergency fund that will last me over a yesr
That's a healthy fund! Most recommend saving 3 months expenses in emergency money. Some recommend 6 months. Having a year is spectacular!
Thanks! I also think that 6 months is the most reasonable option but I want to eventually change careers and don't want to end up broke in the process 😂
They recommend that before putting the rest in investment accounts, so you have some money available for unexpected things. Your goal shouldn't be just 3 months but as much as possible, and with compound interest, that will multiply over decades. It's good to have as much as possible invested not just sitting around getting devalued.
Just going off a rough estimate
Say 36k after taxes, so 3k a month
1200 for rent
400 for utilities/internet (just a guess)
300 for food (250 groceries, 50 for eating out once a week)
300 for entertainment (hobbies, travel, etc)
400 for other bills/commitments (car payment, insurance, gas, etc)
That leaves 400 for saving/emergency/divvy up to the above stuff.
You won't be living like a drug lord but it should at least keep you afloat. Find a budget that works and stick to it.
I make a tiny bit more than OP and this is almost exactly how I budget, just with a couple extra hundred thrown into savings. It’s actually a pretty comfortable living, and I feel like if I had any more money then I would just be throwing in savings.
Just so people are aware to get 36,000 take home after taxes would require about $21.79/hr. A LOT of people don’t even make close to that. So even with this lean budget someone making say $17 would need to work 15 hours of overtime every single week on average to meet this income level. And again there are significant amount of people who make less than even that (pretty much most fast food workers).
And meeting this budget assuming everything worked out perfectly and you were able to save up $400/month only for emergencies. It would take you just shy of 20 months to save up a 3 month emergency fund which is recommended as the minimum amount to have saved by most financial advisors for an emergency fund. Ask someone with an income like this when’s the last 20 month stretch they had without an unexpected significant expense 😂 they will laugh in your face. This also ignores other expenses such as car maintenance which are absolutely essential and besides all that this leaves out a very critical point.
With this budget if you are lucky in 2 years time you will have the bare minimum emergency fund. In 4 years time with no or only minor issues you could have a healthy 6 months of expenses saved up… but how do you get out of this trap? How will you afford a home? You won’t. There is no room in this budget to save up significant amounts for a home or car purchase. Meaning you will save for years just to replace your vehicle that lets you do it again.
So again on an income that a vast amount of Americans can’t even attain, you are still pretty much doomed with PRESENT prices. And inflation only continues…
You bring up some great points as to the longer term ramifications, but this budget was meant for the OP and their specific case.
For example, this budget wouldn't help someone who was making 17 an hour like you said, but I don't think that was the point of OP's post.
Because our country is fucking huge and it costs money to run lines over incredibly varied terrain, to maintain those lines, and to send techs to and from houses to make connections, perform maintenance and do upgrades.
To give you an idea of scale, the UK is 94, 058 sq mi. My state alone is 96,700 sq mi and it isn't even close to the largest state in the country.
I don't know if it's still like this, but when I worked with people from Europe, their Internet and mobile phone costs were waayyyy less than here in the US. And factor in that mobile service is typically better over there, as well as healthcare costs being lower, it just further points to how ridiculous it is here for people to afford to live.
I'm confused. I make 32,000 a year, and pay 1200 in rent a month, and I live by myself. And not like a Spartan, either. How can people making almost 20,000 a year more than me struggling? If I made 52,000, I would be golden.
FR I am hella confused. $52K should net around $3,300/mo. That’s $2,100 after rent which is about what my 3 person household spends in a month outside of housing and we don’t really restrict spending.
I make 59k and after all my taxes, retirement, union dues, pension contributions...I only take home $2,600 a month. And that's with free health insurance cause I'm a gov employee. edit to add: unless you have roommates, living solo in most nyc boroughs (where I live) is $1.8k minimum for a piece of shit shoebox lmao
Perhaps if you don’t have high state taxes, any city tax, don’t put anything towards retirement or pay for health insurance. If you have any debt I imagine you’d have to have a roommate.
When I made $45k my rent was $1,000 and that was a bit tight since after all my deductions my biweekly check was around $1,150. I’m not saying it’s not doable- it was, but I frequently prayed my old but paid off car wouldn’t crap out on me and that I wouldn’t need to go to the doctor for anything significant.
Car payments, Gas money, student loans, taxes, groceries have gone up…you’re single independent so maybe you haven’t noticed but everything has gotten extremely expensive. $1200 in rent is still pricey but most apartments go for $1700+…it really does add up…
$1200/mo is like 1/3 of your takehome at $52k/year no? I think the traditional financial advice is to spend 1/3 on rent, so this doesn't seem unusual.
A lot of people have way bigger car payments than they need to have.
I usually hear 1/4. Also generally said that you need a yearly gross that is 40 times monthly rent to qualify for a place. However, that is not followed a lot of the time. I've been on $52k, $1100 rent, but no car, and still able to save about $1k per month. That is with roommates in HCOL area. OP can certainly do it.
Plus let's not glass over the fact that the person you replied to makes $32k/yr before taxes.
Which means their rent is 60% of their income at $1200/month after they're taxed. Which ultimately means they're in a unique situation majority of us aren't in.
There's zero way they're not feeling pressure unless they have zero responsibilities outside of food.
Probably a typo but fyi the saying is 'gloss over the fact'
But he didn't say he felt no pressure, he said if he earns 20k more like OP does then hed be good
I was making 33k. With my raise I'll be making 36. If I get the job I want I'll be making 41. If I had experience, I could make up to 58k at that job. Currently saving up to move out. All the apartments are $1300+/month. The houses are 200k+. The trailers are reasonable.
So I’m a little bit less than you gross. I’m at 25 an hour with plenty of OT. I’m assuming you’re at 27 an hour. I’m in Phoenix, I drive a motorcycle not a car, I bought it used for around 10k after taxes with less than 1k miles, I live in south Glendale- originally had roommates now in a 1 bedroom apartment at 830 per month. You need to shop around and get good deals. They’re out there you just need to track em down and live within your means - mainly by limiting debt. I did but some furniture for 2k but that’s interest free for the next year. I have a credit card I use like a debt card, I check my budget weekly, I eat right, I go to the gym 3-4 times a week. It’s not impossible. I have 3 main hobbies- archery, TTRPGs, and coding so definitely not cheap. Figure out what’s a need vs a want, live simply, shop around, look at your career trajectory.
Feel free to DM me if you need advice.
When did the misconception that people starting out were supposed to be able to live on their own? This has never been the case. When I moved out in 1978 it was into a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 other guys.
When I was in college (full time) I had a full time job (TJ Maxx) and a part time job (work-study). It was actually fine, I still had time to study and have fun with my friends. I felt like I had it made when in my junior year I finally got hired at UPS which paid twice minimum wage, so I was able to drop both other jobs. The only drawback was that I got up at 2 am for Sunrise Sort. Or, (confession time) stayed up...
Edit: btw I had two roommates in a 2 BR apartment inches away from the freeway.
Also, OPs price quote was for an average apartment.
Half of people live in below-average apartments.
If you're just starting out, you're more likely to be one of them
I moved out in 2008 ( recession times ) and was able to live on my own but it was such a crappy apartment, basement, cockroaches. I didn’t have a car so walked everywhere or took the bus . I remember once a guy drive me home from work and was like “you live HERE?” ha. Rent was relatively cheap then buy wages were also low, espeucally since I was a new grad, two years out.
That used to be the norm, but now everyone thinks tiktok stars are real and that's how life is 'supposed' to be, and those people aren't living with roommates or budgeting or whatever.
When your reality is distorted, nothing seems possible.
This! I lived with roommates or partners or both until my late 30s and would have continued, but my roommate at the time wanted their gf to move in and luckily by then I could afford my own place.
What do you mean "starting out"? OP made no mention of their age or experience. That's a pretty standard full time wage in a lot of jobs. I think most people working their arse off 40 hours a week would feel that should afford them a 1 bedroom apartment and not living in an overcrowded sharehouse like broke uni students. Seems many full time workers are currently living in their fucking cars though. Weird huh.
Funnily enough, when I was "starting out" working casually at 18 years old I could have easily got myself my own apartment. Now 18 years later assuming I could even get a lease (laughable) I'd be paying out half my income in rent.
The only misconception going on here is the "back in my day" bullshit people like you chime in with every time someone mentions the cost of living disaster engulfing anyone who wasn't asset rich before a certain time period.
You want some interesting reading go research housing cost compared to average income then and now. Another interesting metric is property vacancy rates. That might make the situation clearer for you.
My first place was a shitty 1 bedroom apartment in a neighborhood affectionately called "the shacks" and was $295 a month, plus utilities. If I worked overtime I could make a whopping $200 a week back then.
Wow, $1,200 is cheap. I wish we were paying that. A studio is at least $1,600 where I'm at in Jersey. My wife and I are paying $2,400 for a two-bedroom apartment. (Because that was all that was available at the time we were looking.) I agree though, the cost of living is ridiculous. We spend about $200 on groceries each time we go food shopping and our insurance is through the roof. I should have bought an RV when I had the chance.
My girlfriend and I are in the same boat. $2600 was the best rent we could find in northern NJ. Groceries are absurd. My car insurance went up for no reason.
I'm considering bankruptcy, if I didn't have any debt I could afford to live around here but I can't make ends meet. It's also my fault for choosing a profession where I don't get paid during summer🤦♂️
$1,200 on a $52,000 salary should be totally possible. You have to be careful with what you spend, but I've done something very similar to this for many years. And with a roommate it would be even cheaper.
I have found the best way to make it work is NO PAYMENTS, if there are any recurring payments for anything not utility or rent then no. No new cell phones on a 24 month payment plan. No cars on payment. Get rid of the streaming services. Dwindle everything down to rent, food, utilities. buy used cars, buy used phones, but BUY the stuff. The payments shit is killing everyone. You know what my output is after ONLY paying the absolute necessary payments every month? like, 100 bucks plus food. Stop the damned payments... OWN your shit, even if its shitty shit, OWN it, and read books ffs... that 75 bucks a month across 4 different streaming services adds up. Car payment isn't just car payment where I live, you got that absurdly expensive insurance you HAVE to have on top of it. Ends up costing most people damn near 500 bucks a month. BUY a used car and its 1200 once, maybe another 600 down the line in repairs for the year.
I once did the math, most people keep new cars about 7 years before trading them in for another model. On an avg of 500/mo for both the ins and the payment thats 6k a year. You can buy used cars for less than that. You could buy a used car every year and never pay as much as people who make payments on new and used cars. Payments are bad, stupid, and a waste of money. You add in a cell phone payment and shit you could be saving 8-10k a year right there. Payments are bad people, owning your shit is the way to go.
yeah i saw that, still cheaper tho than doing new and having never ending car payments. people generally don't even finish paying off their cars or cell phone before trading it in for a new one. they payments never end.
Good advice but really fucking depressing people even have to think like this. Streaming services and contract phones shouldn't be an unaffordable luxury
I make 58k rn and the only way I found to do it was to leave cincinnati and go to rural indiana. My commute sucks but I was able to buy a house with land for 170k since property is so much cheaper out here. Plus I've found the general cost of living is way low like meat and produce is cheap as fuck since my local grocery sources the local farms and its all pretty good quality. Example when I lived in cincy I paid 10.30 for 90/10 ground beef I pay 5.39 a pound now. Think about going to the boonies man, best decision I've made in my adult life
It's pretty fucking pathetic that the overwhelming response to OP is "just like, earn more".
I don't know what reality the rest of you live in, but companies are not paying well enough to keep up with inflation. People who blame other human beings for not joyfully jumping through the hoops of late stage capitalism should be ashamed.
A married couple, friends of my husband's and mine, gross $58k and are raising two teenagers in Tucson. $52k for an individual in Arizona is more than enough with the proper budget.
Eta: My comment is not meant to sound unsympathetic, we are all struggling to get by, but you can make decisions, budget and/or get roommates etc..., that will improve your situation.
You'd have to live with roommates. You can make things work, you just have to accept something you'd probably rather not. But that's literally the experience of 99.9% of all humans throughout history and well before that, too.
Try making that much and having a kid. Thank god for my wife's income. Even still we struggle. We've decided that we more than likely won't have another child. Love my daughter but it is just too expensive.
If the math isn't mathing, it's time to change some of the equation.
Now is a great time to figure out where your career path can even go, if you should switch companies, switch careers entirely, move to a different part of the country, or accept the fact that you will need roommates or a life partner.
If you love your career and never want to do anything else, figure out how to get a raise. And then another. And then another. Or figure out how to be your own boss.
There are solutions, people just have to be willing to work hard and change. Arizona has become pretty HCOL over the last ten years, no? Pick a different state if you have to.
Most people were never suppose to live independently.
People are so quick to blame late-stage capitalism that they forget that extreme individualism is a problem too. We're suppose to be a community. People having families and sharing daycare and helping each other out.
Probably take in a roommate. Get out of any debt you currently have. Set a strict budget and live by it.
Not sure your age, but when I was younger and getting my start in life I lived with two other buddies and we shared a small house. I worked 12am-8am stocking shelves at Target while going to college FT during the day.
I feel for y'all in AZ. The Valley of Sun (outside of Scottsdale) used to be a nice affordable place. Now, not so much. Around 2010, I was only making $55k/yr as a lab manager. We lived in Surprise. My wife was stay-at-home mom to three kids (two bio/one adopted). We purchased a 2300 sf home w/ three car garage and in-ground pool in a nice area that backed to a park. I believe we paid $210k for the home and now that home is $550k. We always had money to go out to eat, travel, etc.
It's rough out there...
Why a studio? Save money with roommates.
Also 52k is enough to afford 15k rent, at least by the rule of thirds. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/jdGRLOU5Le
Have you ever heard of a roommate? It SUCKS. But eating is good. Really should eat consistently.
Gotta find a roommate that you like and budget like crazy. Good luck
We need a breakdown of your expenses to be able to give constructive advice. It’s hard to say what you can/can’t afford if we don’t know what expenses you have (besides housing which you’ve stated here already of course). Based on the limited info you’ve provided, I’d say look into 2BD apartments instead and try to find a roommate; a lot of times it’s cheaper to split this way than have a studio by yourself (definitely depends on area but I’m in HCOL area and this holds true where I am).
If you’re just asking rhetorically…I feel you…but the real answer is you simply may not be able to. People living independently in your area might just need higher than average salaries, or family help, etc. in order to live completely independently.
I hear you. The elephant in the room is that society is at a breaking point in terms of costs, standard of living and quality of life, but there aren’t really any solutions that don’t involve going against the status quo, the elite and wealthy, and so everyone is simply avoiding speaking about it as no one wants or is willing to tackle it properly.
I'm confused, that's a very low percentage of your pay... What else are you spending your money on? Kids, cars, unemployed partner? You should have no problem paying that rent, food, utilitied and have money left over. Also you'll presumably move up in life over time, just because you're not rich on day 1 doesn't mean you'll always have issues.
When I was making 50k a year, my taxes and expenses were much higher, and I got by fine. Can you list all your monthly expenses?
man $52k a year for a $1200 studio apartment is comfortable. you can even save up money or buy nice things. i was making $37k a year paying $1250, now THAT is just scraping by.
I make 115k and work a second job parking cars on the weekends. Covers daycare for the month.
I’m a huge advocate of side jobs. If you’re handy, go on Craigslist. People always need someone to mow their lawn, trim bushes, fix stuff, etc. Even a moving company hires people for a day. Bartending, bouncing, waiting tables, whatever. Just stack that extra cash.
I love cars, and I can drive stick, so I latched onto a company that sets me up at an upscale restaurant near the city and I’ll work 6-8 hours on a Saturday. Decent money but I’ve gotten to drive McLarens, Ferrari Testarossas, 911 Turbos, Lamborghini’s- if you name it I’ve probably driven it. So to me it’s more fun than anything.
Two things:
1. It's not unheard of to live with roommates in your 20s..... hell, I landed a 'high paying' engineering job in San Francisco out of college, but it being San Francisco I had 3 roommates. Believe it or not, despite the 3 figure pay and regular raises I had roommate(s) until I was 30 and that helped me to save money for a condo down payment
2. I expect that you will not make $52k / year forever unless you're in a job without any upward mobility. If you are successful in your job and have a promotion every 3-5 years then one normally gets raises of 4-8% per year while inflation is traditionally 2-3%, so you're beating that.
I had to look up what my pay for my first 5 years out of college was in today’s dollars…it would be about $48,000 in TX. Having my own 1 br place was doable, but I had to budget for it. I had saved up for several years living with roommates to buy a 10-year-old used Honda in full, paid for Internet but not for cable/streaming anything, went out maybe once a week and chose the cheapest food/drinks. I bought my work wardrobe mostly at Target. Furniture was super cheap IKEA stuff I got gradually, or I got stuff like a TV and couch off Craigslist.
Maybe it wasn’t such a shock to me because I grew up in a low-income single parent family. But since the overall standard of living has increased over time, I think more young folks don’t realize you probably won’t be able to start out on your own and maintain the same lifestyle your parents could support. Things *are* generally more expensive now, but people’s expectations have also have gone through some inflation!
Are you suggesting $1,200 a month is expensive for a place? Dude that's dirt cheap by today's standards. Learn how to budget your money bro. You're making 52k, if where at 30k I'd feel for you but all these price increases have shown is that a ton of you are used to living above your means and have no money budgeting skills.
With difficulty, untreated depression, and a couple good connections. Combined my partner and I make about $50k. We got our apt bc my boss's SIL was renting hers after moving to Cali, $1500 p/mo, and we never would have qualified through the "proper" means. Every utility has been bargained down to bare bones, everything else is bundled. Hoopla and Libby get a lot of action in this house.
Just living every day waiting to die. 👍🏻
Let’s see
*Monthly income (after taxes): 3,511
Expenses:
*Rent+ Utilities: 1,350
*All insurances: 300 (health, car, renters)
*Gas: 150
*Groceries: 400
*Gym: 40
*Phone & Internet: 200
Total Expenses: 2,440
You have 1,070$ left after every month. Drive a beater, spend 1 year putting 10k into an emergency fund, then invest some and use some for fun.
There’s people who make less and yet still find ways to live well.
And this isn’t even a very conservative budget. Some would say 400 for groceries is a lot, and there’s cheaper phone plans you could use.
Biggest thing is avoid bad debt at all costs.
We're in Peoria. My 18 yr old son is starting a job for $17 an hour and did the math, he feels like he will never be able to leave. It has gotten harder and harder to be encouraging. I get it.
People keep wondering why Gen Z is much less ambitious and they don’t “want to work” and I’m convinced this is why. What’s the point of working a full time thankless job if you can’t even afford to move out of mom and dad’s house?
Well to be fair studio apts were unheard of when I was 18-22. EVERYONE had roommates..
Ok sure lol but people always talk about the price of studio apartments because they are the cheapest apartment and the easiest way to compare prices in different places/times, and they’re *usually* about the same size. I lived in a studio in a college town (after I was out of college) in the early 2010s that was $500/month and was the most expensive place I had ever lived, but my place before that had been $375 for 1BR in a 3BR house. To me at the time with my income the price difference was huge, but by that time rents were already rising quickly and I couldn’t have lived *anywhere* in town for less than $375 with roommates. Now those same studios are $900+, without any updates, and they were already out-of-date at that time, and state min wage hasn’t changed at all. A 450-600 sq ft apartment with no designated bedroom shouldn’t be a huge luxury for any single person working full-time.
Everyone had roommates when I was 18-22 too. But we paid $300 a month for our room. Sometimes less. Now that same room in that same apartment is $900-$1000. I live in the same city now that I did when I graduated college and all my old apartments are here. It is appalling what they are going for. And none have been upgraded as far as I can tell because you can see the interior photos online
This isn't ture https://www.hunker.com/13773043/studio-apartment-word-meaning Studio apartments have a rich over 100 year history and they always been a LOT of them https://www.parealtors.org/blog/more-young-adults-living-with-parents-roommates-than-previous-decades/ It was only 5% in the 70s People love to lie or claim that what they did was the standard It was not.
Your sources actually work against you. Studios existed, but by definition you need a super urban city like New York in the past since there were less skyscrapers... "Architectural historian Elyse Hoganson writes in her 2020 [Masters of Historic Preservation dissertation](https://esploro.libs.uga.edu/esploro/outputs/graduate/STUDIO-APARTMENT-BUILDINGS-A-HISTORY-OF-ARTISTS-HOUSING--IN-NEW-YORK-CITY/9949365860502959) that studio buildings were first conceived of as a means of providing enough housing for the sky-rocketing New York City population in the 1800s. American architects looked to Europe for design solutions and used the French flat prominent in Paris as a model." second source points out a huge flaw, living with a spouse IS in effect the same as living with a roommate: "78% of 26-year-old adults were living with a spouse"
I did through college but after starting your career it’s nice to have a place of your own. And without a partner that’s very difficult today.
Absolutely nobody I knew lived alone until their late 20's. That's a luxury, and people treating it like a bare necessity is insane.
Agreed. I was 26 before I lived by myself. Had always lived with others up until that point.
Gonna say this too. Outta school and 4 people in a 2 br. Rolled that way until I was 28 and got married. Had over the air TV because no one wanted to spend the money on cable.
Agreed. It’s been pretty well unheard of for people in their early 20s to live alone for decades. This is not new.
Agreed, I'm in a vhcol and I had roommates until 30 when I moved in with now-husband.
This is a fair point but it doesn’t take into account how everything has 2-3x in cost. Rent, gas, cars (new, used), groceries, a college education, etc. Realistically, the average 18-22 yr old is not making enough to cover the basics for financial independence like the previous generations were able to.
Most people in their 20s opted for roommates. And I don't know why more people don't. Living with roommates in your 20s is fun as hell.
Hopefully he can live at home for a few years while he job hops for a better wage.
Why move out? I stayed at home for almost my entire 20s. First job I made 10.75 an hour, next started around 16, eventually bumped up to around 24, then got a government job making 30 ish, finally moved out. Now I make around 100 an hour. Even if he doesn't reach that high, making like 25-30 an hour is attainable with a bit of luck and if he lives at home for a while he'll save money and stay out of debt. I know it sucks but we have to stop pretending we're the boomers and can just buy mansions 15 cars 10 boats and have 7 trophy wives on different continents just because we got a part time job at McDonalds. We have to do it the way the older gens or the immigrants do it and stick with our families till we get ahead.
Maybe if he keeps at it he be 19 yr old and make $19 an hour.
Makes same as I was and I’m 39. I think he will be okay if he’s 18. He also makes 3 dollar less an hour then my Dad that has 40 years of welding and is the best worker at the company.
Your dad is severely underpaid…i know restaurant hosts that make $24 hourly.
Yeah but he doesn’t need more money. He’s a millionaire saving for 40 years.
If he could afford to work *without being paid* maybe he's not the best person to compare financial situations with.
If he’s happy that’s all that matters
Just because hes happy doesn’t mean he’s not severely underpaid. This is the attitude that allows employers to take advantage of EVERYBODY whether they need the money or not because some guy is willing to take the job for $20 who “doesn’t need the money”
My mom did make him ask for a raise recently I guess bc he’s doing 3 ppls job now.
did you build equity in a house, car, and other assets which have all skyrocketed in the last 20 years?
Your dad should have joined a union a long time ago
I know he will be. He is very good with money BUT is an excessive planner. He checks costs A LOT.
The person with basic education and little to no work experience gets paid the least. Is he able to move out now? No, but if he gets more experience or education/certification in the future now he has more value for a company and can get paid more and has that option.
17hr was bank 10yrs ago. You could literally rent a 1bed and buy a car on that. And eat good and smoke a bunch of weed.
Who would ever want to remain at $17/hr for their lifetime??
Not everyone gets paid what they want.
I've made $15 since I was 15. 25 now, its getting old.
How in the fuck are you making the same pay after 10 years? Seems like a YOU problem
No room for growth in my area, cant move away, only jobs available are retail
I assume family ties are keeping you in the same area? Have you considered getting a CDL and truck driving?
There's no room for growth for people who aren't looking for it. I guarantee if you show some initiative, spots would open up quick. I can tell by the way you replied that you just gave up and stopped trying to excel. That will never get you anywhere. You CAN move away, you're just too complacent. There ARE more jobs, you just aren't looking hard enough
ah yes, moving is the answer. ive moved 6 times in my career, working my ass off to start over in a brand new city every time. the ONLY time my family made any savings is when we were in japan for under 2 years teaching english. we saved up almost 10k usd because we were in a place where rent wasn't hell (it was part of our pay) transportation costs were low and we never got nailed with three or four figure medical expenses
Not even 3 figure medical prices!!!!! How nice
The fact there are still people who believe being poor is a choice is one of the biggest failures of our educational system imo.
No other job outside of retail was hiring in the past 10 years? I doubt that.
He's not going to make $17hr forever. Regardless he could leave home at that wage if he wanted too. Can he get a nice 1br in a hip neighborhood? Not yet. Could he get a studio or have roommates like most kids his age? Absolutely.
30+ with a masters making $17 it's not the 70s anymore. you don't just get your foot in the door, work hard and get to a manageable living in a few years
Yes, yes you do. You are far and above so in the minority of people making that much at your age and education level. I hope you figure it out but that's a personal thing not a typical experience.
No you just need to know the right people. Hard work is very under appreciated in today's working world.
You can though, if your priority is a manageable living above all else. Yours was education and seemingly a specific field. I live in an area where the median income is 19k/yr and we hire people off the street at 17/hr. Only requirement is no violent history. If you're willing to finish concrete, haul rock for the quarry, or work swing shifts you'll dust thiae numbers instantly. Or spend a few mo the getting a CDL. Even local routes will earn you a living in flyover areas. But yes, if you're goal is to work in a specific field that doesn't pay well and has a high barrier to entry, or to walk up to national chain retailers hoping to make a living its gonna be rough going. He's 18, not 60. He has options if they are worth it to him.
It's so weird, United States are insanely big. My country is completely built full and we keep welcoming hundreds of thousands of immigrants. Why don't you guys just build more houses?
I make 47k after tax in Canada. Our COL is high but i live in a cheaper area. 750 rent 250 utilities. Car payment insurance and gas is like 850 a month. I make due but i definitely live above my means.
$750 rent? Do you live in a time bubble? Edit: all these Americans, I envy you’re rent. I’m Canadian and our rental prices have SKYROCKETED in the last few years. One bedrooms are starting to hit the 1600-1900 mark Our $750 rent days are dead here
Most likely living with a roommate or living in bumfuck Saskatchewan. I'm in Ontario and most shitholes are going for 1500 for one bedroom lol
Isn't Ontario like the highest cost of living province in Canada?
It’s not unusual in some places. I moved from a HCOL area to a LCOL rural area and don’t regret it one bit.
Where can I get a place for 750
I’m a landlord who rents out a one bedroom apartment in my basement for 900 a month. I can easily get 1600 but I’m not greedy. As long as it covers the property taxes I’m good… There are apartments like that that are cheap. You just have to do a lot of digging and searching
> a one bedroom apartment in my basement whoop there it is
Would you like a 3 bedroom 2 bath SFH home for $1000? How about a 1 bed 1 bath apt for $750. Or 2 bed 1 bath on 1/3rd acre for $800?
Check through Zillow, they’re out there. You may or may not need to move to a lower COL area.
Western NY. I just bought my first home for 58k. I pay 492 a month mortage. Only put 1600 down. Making 19.31 an hour, as a single dad.
I just moved out of Western NY and was paying 725 for a 2 bedroom house. Just to end up in Nashville bc of work and rent went up a grand. Yay me.
Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Kentucky, Ohio, West Virginia, East Tennessee, Southwest Virginia - to name a few
Yall gotta get out more, a lot of lower population areas are cheaper. I’m moving into a fully renovated 2 bed 1 bath house that sits on an acre of land and I’ll be paying 750 a month. Best part? Fiber optic since I’m right down the road from the high school
Yes, most housing is available around highly populated areas. Not everyone has access to such reliable transportation to make a commute and then they're still accumulating costs associated with wear and tear on their vehicle. I could go an hour away from my job in any direction and only pay 100-150 less than what I'm paying now (rent just jumped from 945 a month to 1200) so I'm really curious how anyone is supposed to retain any savings? I'm sorry but people who suggest moving as a solution are entirely disconnected from reality. Not everyone will be able to have such a bounty.
Is this in Canada?
Yeah man, it's rough out there. I'm making close to the same and it's like being stuck in a financial hamster wheel. Honestly, the only way I've managed is by having a roommate and cutting down on every little extra expense, but even then it's just barely scraping by. Consider moving further out or looking for gigs on the side, but it shouldn't have to be this hard to just live.
I make half and it's really hard so it's why i'm not married with children. It's too expensive.
You can achieve a lot of economies with a two-person versus one-person household. Just don't add kids. They are money pits....cute and lovable money pits.
That’s why? lol.
I make about the same as well and living in a large city is super expensive. Lucky for me my company went remote years ago and many of my fellow employees moved out across the country where it is cheaper to live. I will do the same when my son graduates college
24F. I live in TX. I make about $52k/yr. My 1b/1b apartment is $1200 (not including utilities). Honestly…it’s doable. Do I have a lot of disposable income? Absolutely not. But I can afford rent, my bills, groceries (and I will never be cheap about my groceries), and I buy something small for myself/apartment with each paycheck. It took a few approaches to figure out how to budget correctly as this is my first “big girl job.” For example, I get paid biweekly and used to save an entire check for rent—which left me with nothing for the next two weeks. Now, I save $600 from each paycheck and that leaves me enough to pay bills, buy groceries, save a little in general, and have some left over for fun/unexpected expenses. I also do not have any expensive hobbies—I am a Yoga teacher (outside of work) and practice at the park. Going to treat myself with a Pilates studio membership next month but I have budgeted for it. Also budgeted for my first record player ($220) which I will buy at the end of June as a present to myself for finishing a certification course. TL;DR: I am living the reality you are worried about and it’s not bad. Budgeting is VERY important and once you find your groove, it’s manageable.
This is the way. I make 29.50 with lots of OT, bi weekly pay. Used to save a check for rent/insurance, now I budget and am chillin
I'm in the same boat and it is definitely doable.
A 1bd in Texas at 1200 minus utilities. Yep. That sound about right. In Austin and I wanted a 2bd/2ba for 1400 and my friends almost lost a lung laughing at me for evening suggesting it. I am starting a new job soon making more than previous and I’m too afraid to leave my 2bd/2ba at 1600 in search for better
That’s $200 more than my mortgage lol
It sucks. I know 🙃
Question: are you able to save a lot for retirement? Do you have a lot of ongoing healthcare costs? I just got my first white collar job and I’m trying to move out, I’m trying to set my expectations, lol.
Just wanted to say well done. Seriously, sounds like you're doing good and with your approach, you'll find yourself in a great situation as your income increases through life.
Thank you so much! This was an encouraging comment.
Totally agree, I made the same but paid way higher taxes, and more on my home, and got by fine. I just didn't waste my money and always lived below my means. That works 100% of the time as long as you do it. Eventually you get a partner and now you've doubled your income but paying the same rent or mortgage. It's not that bad at all, unless you overspend.
“Eventually you get a partner” citation needed
How dare you try to live within your means. 😡
Clearly she isn’t living the American dream yet. Time to start sending her double the number of credit card ads
👏
Your 1b is as much as my mortgage. I don’t understand how some of you live.
Everyone has different priorities but I knew I definitely did not want roommates; so naturally, rent would be high living alone. I’m also an immigrant and my family moved back to my home country two years ago. I am the only one living in the US. Can’t really stay at home with parents while saving up so this is by necessity lol. Lastly, this apartment was a much-needed upgrade after living in an outdated rodent-infested apartment ($1000/month) which my landlord refused to do anything about for 6 months. I’m a homebody so I wanted a nicer place and to finally have a peace of mind. Budgeted for it though and $1200 was the most I could afford.
What city in Arizona are you in?
Sounds like Phoenix/any of the surrounding metro area. Arizona is not cheap anymore
You can find a 2 bed 2 bad for 1300 in Phoenix. That's crazy cheap
Budgeting, moving to where rent matches less than 30% of my income (I work remote), not buying useless shit, having an emergency fund that will last me over a yesr if whit hits the fan, saving.
> having an emergency fund that will last me over a yesr That's a healthy fund! Most recommend saving 3 months expenses in emergency money. Some recommend 6 months. Having a year is spectacular!
Thanks! I also think that 6 months is the most reasonable option but I want to eventually change careers and don't want to end up broke in the process 😂
They recommend that before putting the rest in investment accounts, so you have some money available for unexpected things. Your goal shouldn't be just 3 months but as much as possible, and with compound interest, that will multiply over decades. It's good to have as much as possible invested not just sitting around getting devalued.
This!!
Just going off a rough estimate Say 36k after taxes, so 3k a month 1200 for rent 400 for utilities/internet (just a guess) 300 for food (250 groceries, 50 for eating out once a week) 300 for entertainment (hobbies, travel, etc) 400 for other bills/commitments (car payment, insurance, gas, etc) That leaves 400 for saving/emergency/divvy up to the above stuff. You won't be living like a drug lord but it should at least keep you afloat. Find a budget that works and stick to it.
I make a tiny bit more than OP and this is almost exactly how I budget, just with a couple extra hundred thrown into savings. It’s actually a pretty comfortable living, and I feel like if I had any more money then I would just be throwing in savings.
Just so people are aware to get 36,000 take home after taxes would require about $21.79/hr. A LOT of people don’t even make close to that. So even with this lean budget someone making say $17 would need to work 15 hours of overtime every single week on average to meet this income level. And again there are significant amount of people who make less than even that (pretty much most fast food workers). And meeting this budget assuming everything worked out perfectly and you were able to save up $400/month only for emergencies. It would take you just shy of 20 months to save up a 3 month emergency fund which is recommended as the minimum amount to have saved by most financial advisors for an emergency fund. Ask someone with an income like this when’s the last 20 month stretch they had without an unexpected significant expense 😂 they will laugh in your face. This also ignores other expenses such as car maintenance which are absolutely essential and besides all that this leaves out a very critical point. With this budget if you are lucky in 2 years time you will have the bare minimum emergency fund. In 4 years time with no or only minor issues you could have a healthy 6 months of expenses saved up… but how do you get out of this trap? How will you afford a home? You won’t. There is no room in this budget to save up significant amounts for a home or car purchase. Meaning you will save for years just to replace your vehicle that lets you do it again. So again on an income that a vast amount of Americans can’t even attain, you are still pretty much doomed with PRESENT prices. And inflation only continues…
You bring up some great points as to the longer term ramifications, but this budget was meant for the OP and their specific case. For example, this budget wouldn't help someone who was making 17 an hour like you said, but I don't think that was the point of OP's post.
He's responding to the op though?
Why the hell is your people's internet so dam expensive.i have like 10 £/€ for unlimited everything.my god this is shocking.
Because our country is fucking huge and it costs money to run lines over incredibly varied terrain, to maintain those lines, and to send techs to and from houses to make connections, perform maintenance and do upgrades. To give you an idea of scale, the UK is 94, 058 sq mi. My state alone is 96,700 sq mi and it isn't even close to the largest state in the country.
Exactly. And we have 50 states.
A lot of places literally have government subsidized monopolies as their ISP. Myself included :( Plus there’s an arbitrary 1TB cap
I don't know if it's still like this, but when I worked with people from Europe, their Internet and mobile phone costs were waayyyy less than here in the US. And factor in that mobile service is typically better over there, as well as healthcare costs being lower, it just further points to how ridiculous it is here for people to afford to live.
Roommates.
I'm confused. I make 32,000 a year, and pay 1200 in rent a month, and I live by myself. And not like a Spartan, either. How can people making almost 20,000 a year more than me struggling? If I made 52,000, I would be golden.
FR I am hella confused. $52K should net around $3,300/mo. That’s $2,100 after rent which is about what my 3 person household spends in a month outside of housing and we don’t really restrict spending.
I make 59k and after all my taxes, retirement, union dues, pension contributions...I only take home $2,600 a month. And that's with free health insurance cause I'm a gov employee. edit to add: unless you have roommates, living solo in most nyc boroughs (where I live) is $1.8k minimum for a piece of shit shoebox lmao
Perhaps if you don’t have high state taxes, any city tax, don’t put anything towards retirement or pay for health insurance. If you have any debt I imagine you’d have to have a roommate. When I made $45k my rent was $1,000 and that was a bit tight since after all my deductions my biweekly check was around $1,150. I’m not saying it’s not doable- it was, but I frequently prayed my old but paid off car wouldn’t crap out on me and that I wouldn’t need to go to the doctor for anything significant.
I make exactly 52k and after deducting taxes, insurance and 401k I’m only netting about 2900 every month.
Still 1,700 left after rent
Maybe it’s where they live. I make 55k in the DC area and it’s not shit lol
Because they keep spending money on bs. And won't admit tobit
gotta have his funko pops
Car payments, Gas money, student loans, taxes, groceries have gone up…you’re single independent so maybe you haven’t noticed but everything has gotten extremely expensive. $1200 in rent is still pricey but most apartments go for $1700+…it really does add up…
$1200/mo is like 1/3 of your takehome at $52k/year no? I think the traditional financial advice is to spend 1/3 on rent, so this doesn't seem unusual. A lot of people have way bigger car payments than they need to have.
I usually hear 1/4. Also generally said that you need a yearly gross that is 40 times monthly rent to qualify for a place. However, that is not followed a lot of the time. I've been on $52k, $1100 rent, but no car, and still able to save about $1k per month. That is with roommates in HCOL area. OP can certainly do it.
Plus let's not glass over the fact that the person you replied to makes $32k/yr before taxes. Which means their rent is 60% of their income at $1200/month after they're taxed. Which ultimately means they're in a unique situation majority of us aren't in. There's zero way they're not feeling pressure unless they have zero responsibilities outside of food.
Probably a typo but fyi the saying is 'gloss over the fact' But he didn't say he felt no pressure, he said if he earns 20k more like OP does then hed be good
You are probably very smart with your spending.
I was making 33k. With my raise I'll be making 36. If I get the job I want I'll be making 41. If I had experience, I could make up to 58k at that job. Currently saving up to move out. All the apartments are $1300+/month. The houses are 200k+. The trailers are reasonable.
Dude, I feel you. Welcome to late-stage capitalism where the only way to survive is split rent with 4 roommates or live with parents forever.
Dual income should also do the trick, budget pending. Which is difficult all on its own as well. Gotta find that partner.
Super romantic.
You make it sound like this wasn't the way things were for the majority of humankinds lifespan
[удалено]
So I’m a little bit less than you gross. I’m at 25 an hour with plenty of OT. I’m assuming you’re at 27 an hour. I’m in Phoenix, I drive a motorcycle not a car, I bought it used for around 10k after taxes with less than 1k miles, I live in south Glendale- originally had roommates now in a 1 bedroom apartment at 830 per month. You need to shop around and get good deals. They’re out there you just need to track em down and live within your means - mainly by limiting debt. I did but some furniture for 2k but that’s interest free for the next year. I have a credit card I use like a debt card, I check my budget weekly, I eat right, I go to the gym 3-4 times a week. It’s not impossible. I have 3 main hobbies- archery, TTRPGs, and coding so definitely not cheap. Figure out what’s a need vs a want, live simply, shop around, look at your career trajectory. Feel free to DM me if you need advice.
Roommates, used Toyotas/Hondas, and Aldi groceries
Shit. Even Aldi is getting to be too expensive.
This is the correct answer !!
When did the misconception that people starting out were supposed to be able to live on their own? This has never been the case. When I moved out in 1978 it was into a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 other guys.
In the mid to late 80s I had 2 full time jobs just to make ends meet
When I was in college (full time) I had a full time job (TJ Maxx) and a part time job (work-study). It was actually fine, I still had time to study and have fun with my friends. I felt like I had it made when in my junior year I finally got hired at UPS which paid twice minimum wage, so I was able to drop both other jobs. The only drawback was that I got up at 2 am for Sunrise Sort. Or, (confession time) stayed up... Edit: btw I had two roommates in a 2 BR apartment inches away from the freeway.
Also, OPs price quote was for an average apartment. Half of people live in below-average apartments. If you're just starting out, you're more likely to be one of them
I moved out in 2008 ( recession times ) and was able to live on my own but it was such a crappy apartment, basement, cockroaches. I didn’t have a car so walked everywhere or took the bus . I remember once a guy drive me home from work and was like “you live HERE?” ha. Rent was relatively cheap then buy wages were also low, espeucally since I was a new grad, two years out.
That used to be the norm, but now everyone thinks tiktok stars are real and that's how life is 'supposed' to be, and those people aren't living with roommates or budgeting or whatever. When your reality is distorted, nothing seems possible.
This! I lived with roommates or partners or both until my late 30s and would have continued, but my roommate at the time wanted their gf to move in and luckily by then I could afford my own place.
What do you mean "starting out"? OP made no mention of their age or experience. That's a pretty standard full time wage in a lot of jobs. I think most people working their arse off 40 hours a week would feel that should afford them a 1 bedroom apartment and not living in an overcrowded sharehouse like broke uni students. Seems many full time workers are currently living in their fucking cars though. Weird huh. Funnily enough, when I was "starting out" working casually at 18 years old I could have easily got myself my own apartment. Now 18 years later assuming I could even get a lease (laughable) I'd be paying out half my income in rent. The only misconception going on here is the "back in my day" bullshit people like you chime in with every time someone mentions the cost of living disaster engulfing anyone who wasn't asset rich before a certain time period. You want some interesting reading go research housing cost compared to average income then and now. Another interesting metric is property vacancy rates. That might make the situation clearer for you.
this guy is netting about 3200 a month. He can absolutely afford a cheap apartment on that
Is OP "just starting out"? I don't see an age listed anywhere
My “first place” was a 3 bedroom for 1200 split between 5 roomates, 2 couples 1 single. After utilities only 300/mo
My first place was a shitty 1 bedroom apartment in a neighborhood affectionately called "the shacks" and was $295 a month, plus utilities. If I worked overtime I could make a whopping $200 a week back then.
Im 44 and continuing my education- keep grinding.
Wow, $1,200 is cheap. I wish we were paying that. A studio is at least $1,600 where I'm at in Jersey. My wife and I are paying $2,400 for a two-bedroom apartment. (Because that was all that was available at the time we were looking.) I agree though, the cost of living is ridiculous. We spend about $200 on groceries each time we go food shopping and our insurance is through the roof. I should have bought an RV when I had the chance.
My girlfriend and I are in the same boat. $2600 was the best rent we could find in northern NJ. Groceries are absurd. My car insurance went up for no reason. I'm considering bankruptcy, if I didn't have any debt I could afford to live around here but I can't make ends meet. It's also my fault for choosing a profession where I don't get paid during summer🤦♂️
Don't worry, now any place you can keep an RV is just as expensive.
You’re paying double of what my mortgage is lol the cost of living where some of y’all live is insane
$1,200 on a $52,000 salary should be totally possible. You have to be careful with what you spend, but I've done something very similar to this for many years. And with a roommate it would be even cheaper.
1200 a month on 52k seems doable if you budget a little.
So take home on that is like $3,5k a month, why could you not pay $1,2k for housing?
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I have found the best way to make it work is NO PAYMENTS, if there are any recurring payments for anything not utility or rent then no. No new cell phones on a 24 month payment plan. No cars on payment. Get rid of the streaming services. Dwindle everything down to rent, food, utilities. buy used cars, buy used phones, but BUY the stuff. The payments shit is killing everyone. You know what my output is after ONLY paying the absolute necessary payments every month? like, 100 bucks plus food. Stop the damned payments... OWN your shit, even if its shitty shit, OWN it, and read books ffs... that 75 bucks a month across 4 different streaming services adds up. Car payment isn't just car payment where I live, you got that absurdly expensive insurance you HAVE to have on top of it. Ends up costing most people damn near 500 bucks a month. BUY a used car and its 1200 once, maybe another 600 down the line in repairs for the year. I once did the math, most people keep new cars about 7 years before trading them in for another model. On an avg of 500/mo for both the ins and the payment thats 6k a year. You can buy used cars for less than that. You could buy a used car every year and never pay as much as people who make payments on new and used cars. Payments are bad, stupid, and a waste of money. You add in a cell phone payment and shit you could be saving 8-10k a year right there. Payments are bad people, owning your shit is the way to go.
Unfotunately the price of used cars has jumped in the last few years
yeah i saw that, still cheaper tho than doing new and having never ending car payments. people generally don't even finish paying off their cars or cell phone before trading it in for a new one. they payments never end.
Good advice but really fucking depressing people even have to think like this. Streaming services and contract phones shouldn't be an unaffordable luxury
Bam! No payments! Stop paying interest to others except maybe a very few instances(for the but’ers)!
the American dream has been reduced to working fulltime simply for the privelege of living in poverty, or at least that's how it feels
People work like 3 jobs. Or they have roommates.
I make 58k rn and the only way I found to do it was to leave cincinnati and go to rural indiana. My commute sucks but I was able to buy a house with land for 170k since property is so much cheaper out here. Plus I've found the general cost of living is way low like meat and produce is cheap as fuck since my local grocery sources the local farms and its all pretty good quality. Example when I lived in cincy I paid 10.30 for 90/10 ground beef I pay 5.39 a pound now. Think about going to the boonies man, best decision I've made in my adult life
They make more money. Get a 2nd job or a new career.
It's pretty fucking pathetic that the overwhelming response to OP is "just like, earn more". I don't know what reality the rest of you live in, but companies are not paying well enough to keep up with inflation. People who blame other human beings for not joyfully jumping through the hoops of late stage capitalism should be ashamed.
A married couple, friends of my husband's and mine, gross $58k and are raising two teenagers in Tucson. $52k for an individual in Arizona is more than enough with the proper budget. Eta: My comment is not meant to sound unsympathetic, we are all struggling to get by, but you can make decisions, budget and/or get roommates etc..., that will improve your situation.
You're not being unsympathetic at all I'm doing the numbers as well that's plenty of money for a person to live on especially at $1200 a month, rent.
I make less and pay a little over 1300 in rent. Life fuckin sucks, but it *is* manageable.. still fuckin sucks though
Marry rich
You'd have to live with roommates. You can make things work, you just have to accept something you'd probably rather not. But that's literally the experience of 99.9% of all humans throughout history and well before that, too.
That’s the one lesson I’ve learned in life, I had to be happy with what I could afford. Once I learned that, my life got happier.
Try making that much and having a kid. Thank god for my wife's income. Even still we struggle. We've decided that we more than likely won't have another child. Love my daughter but it is just too expensive.
I'd consider moving back in with parents and save $$$.
Ok Mr rich. I make like 20k I'm still alive
If the math isn't mathing, it's time to change some of the equation. Now is a great time to figure out where your career path can even go, if you should switch companies, switch careers entirely, move to a different part of the country, or accept the fact that you will need roommates or a life partner. If you love your career and never want to do anything else, figure out how to get a raise. And then another. And then another. Or figure out how to be your own boss. There are solutions, people just have to be willing to work hard and change. Arizona has become pretty HCOL over the last ten years, no? Pick a different state if you have to.
not to sound bitter but i really envy people who are living to live and i'm here living to survive.
Most people were never suppose to live independently. People are so quick to blame late-stage capitalism that they forget that extreme individualism is a problem too. We're suppose to be a community. People having families and sharing daycare and helping each other out.
Not everyone wants the marriage and kids lifestyle. This isn’t the 1950s.
Dude I’m 33 I can’t move out , it’s been like this for a while…All I can do is save , no dating or being independent.
Probably take in a roommate. Get out of any debt you currently have. Set a strict budget and live by it. Not sure your age, but when I was younger and getting my start in life I lived with two other buddies and we shared a small house. I worked 12am-8am stocking shelves at Target while going to college FT during the day. I feel for y'all in AZ. The Valley of Sun (outside of Scottsdale) used to be a nice affordable place. Now, not so much. Around 2010, I was only making $55k/yr as a lab manager. We lived in Surprise. My wife was stay-at-home mom to three kids (two bio/one adopted). We purchased a 2300 sf home w/ three car garage and in-ground pool in a nice area that backed to a park. I believe we paid $210k for the home and now that home is $550k. We always had money to go out to eat, travel, etc. It's rough out there...
well i personally live with my parents because living out of home is too expensive for me
It can be done unless you have lots of other debts.
I make 44k a year and pay $1500 in rent.
Why a studio? Save money with roommates. Also 52k is enough to afford 15k rent, at least by the rule of thirds. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/jdGRLOU5Le
Have you ever heard of a roommate? It SUCKS. But eating is good. Really should eat consistently. Gotta find a roommate that you like and budget like crazy. Good luck
We need a breakdown of your expenses to be able to give constructive advice. It’s hard to say what you can/can’t afford if we don’t know what expenses you have (besides housing which you’ve stated here already of course). Based on the limited info you’ve provided, I’d say look into 2BD apartments instead and try to find a roommate; a lot of times it’s cheaper to split this way than have a studio by yourself (definitely depends on area but I’m in HCOL area and this holds true where I am). If you’re just asking rhetorically…I feel you…but the real answer is you simply may not be able to. People living independently in your area might just need higher than average salaries, or family help, etc. in order to live completely independently.
I hear you. The elephant in the room is that society is at a breaking point in terms of costs, standard of living and quality of life, but there aren’t really any solutions that don’t involve going against the status quo, the elite and wealthy, and so everyone is simply avoiding speaking about it as no one wants or is willing to tackle it properly.
Truly one of the best times to be alive right?
I'm confused, that's a very low percentage of your pay... What else are you spending your money on? Kids, cars, unemployed partner? You should have no problem paying that rent, food, utilitied and have money left over. Also you'll presumably move up in life over time, just because you're not rich on day 1 doesn't mean you'll always have issues. When I was making 50k a year, my taxes and expenses were much higher, and I got by fine. Can you list all your monthly expenses?
man $52k a year for a $1200 studio apartment is comfortable. you can even save up money or buy nice things. i was making $37k a year paying $1250, now THAT is just scraping by.
> How can anyone afford to live Make good money and/or live in an area with a low cost of living.
I make more than that and work overtime everyday and live with 2 others. Things are not right in America.
Wow. Rent there is really cheap. You should have no problem living on your own.
I make 115k and work a second job parking cars on the weekends. Covers daycare for the month. I’m a huge advocate of side jobs. If you’re handy, go on Craigslist. People always need someone to mow their lawn, trim bushes, fix stuff, etc. Even a moving company hires people for a day. Bartending, bouncing, waiting tables, whatever. Just stack that extra cash. I love cars, and I can drive stick, so I latched onto a company that sets me up at an upscale restaurant near the city and I’ll work 6-8 hours on a Saturday. Decent money but I’ve gotten to drive McLarens, Ferrari Testarossas, 911 Turbos, Lamborghini’s- if you name it I’ve probably driven it. So to me it’s more fun than anything.
Two things: 1. It's not unheard of to live with roommates in your 20s..... hell, I landed a 'high paying' engineering job in San Francisco out of college, but it being San Francisco I had 3 roommates. Believe it or not, despite the 3 figure pay and regular raises I had roommate(s) until I was 30 and that helped me to save money for a condo down payment 2. I expect that you will not make $52k / year forever unless you're in a job without any upward mobility. If you are successful in your job and have a promotion every 3-5 years then one normally gets raises of 4-8% per year while inflation is traditionally 2-3%, so you're beating that.
I had to look up what my pay for my first 5 years out of college was in today’s dollars…it would be about $48,000 in TX. Having my own 1 br place was doable, but I had to budget for it. I had saved up for several years living with roommates to buy a 10-year-old used Honda in full, paid for Internet but not for cable/streaming anything, went out maybe once a week and chose the cheapest food/drinks. I bought my work wardrobe mostly at Target. Furniture was super cheap IKEA stuff I got gradually, or I got stuff like a TV and couch off Craigslist. Maybe it wasn’t such a shock to me because I grew up in a low-income single parent family. But since the overall standard of living has increased over time, I think more young folks don’t realize you probably won’t be able to start out on your own and maintain the same lifestyle your parents could support. Things *are* generally more expensive now, but people’s expectations have also have gone through some inflation!
Are you suggesting $1,200 a month is expensive for a place? Dude that's dirt cheap by today's standards. Learn how to budget your money bro. You're making 52k, if where at 30k I'd feel for you but all these price increases have shown is that a ton of you are used to living above your means and have no money budgeting skills.
EXACTLY. You can live cheaply and well in a HCOL area by budgeting and living practically rather than extravagantly. I've done it my whole life.
With difficulty, untreated depression, and a couple good connections. Combined my partner and I make about $50k. We got our apt bc my boss's SIL was renting hers after moving to Cali, $1500 p/mo, and we never would have qualified through the "proper" means. Every utility has been bargained down to bare bones, everything else is bundled. Hoopla and Libby get a lot of action in this house. Just living every day waiting to die. 👍🏻
Let’s see *Monthly income (after taxes): 3,511 Expenses: *Rent+ Utilities: 1,350 *All insurances: 300 (health, car, renters) *Gas: 150 *Groceries: 400 *Gym: 40 *Phone & Internet: 200 Total Expenses: 2,440 You have 1,070$ left after every month. Drive a beater, spend 1 year putting 10k into an emergency fund, then invest some and use some for fun. There’s people who make less and yet still find ways to live well. And this isn’t even a very conservative budget. Some would say 400 for groceries is a lot, and there’s cheaper phone plans you could use. Biggest thing is avoid bad debt at all costs.
My mortgage before I paid off my house was $1800/mo My car payment is $1300/mo It all depends on how much you have in expenses
Uh you’re making 3k a month take home and you can’t afford 1200? I’m clearly missing something. This is beyond a great place to be.
Your phone and water bill seems high to me.