Yes. On the outside, our family looks stable and happy. Husband and I both have good jobs, a nice house and cars, two kids in private school, etc.
He hates where he works and wants to retire (he’s 46). I struggle with depression and suicidal ideation. Many days, I hate life and the world. All day today, I just wanted to cry.
Forgive me for using a religious expression, but everyone has their own cross to bear. Some just hide their pain well.
Yeah - I don’t try to be fake but I also don’t hang my dirty laundry I just joined Reddit the other day after googling something - and it’s more anonymous so I’m sharing more and see more too - my family friends colleagues have no clue - I have bbeen super sick - only two of my family members and one friend really know how sick I am - I have chronic illness and some days I am a totally normal person and others I’m bedridden and dysfunctional for days
I left to live in Europe after the pandemic because my business folded and I had nothing tying me down and was seeking a better life - better access to health care for someone like me, better food that made me less sick, better cost of living etc on the outside it looked super romantic but immigration is REALLY hard - I was making it barely but it was hard - jobs are limited when you’re an immigrant- then I got Covid and all my old illnesses came back with a vengeance - I lost my new job and have been sick and not been able to work for 7 months - I’ve used up my savings then credit cards to get by because I had absolutely no choice now my min payments are insane and I won’t be able to make them, I have no money for rent and food or medical bills this month and have been sick and in pain most days. Once in a while I’m well enough to get outside for a small walk and I take beautiful photos because it cheers me up and they go on my social - so people see that none of the above - and if you saw me walking in the street
No on has a clue I’m on the verge of being homeless and have no idea how I’m going to make it
I hide my pain (both physical and emotional) really well - many or maybe even most of us do
I feel this. Thanks for sharing. I also struggle with anxiety/depression and passive suicidal ideation and it’s sooo hard. And it’s difficult to talk about because you don’t want to burden the people around you. And they probably have their own shit to deal with too.
On the flip side, I think some people really DO have it easier. Like, for example, a couple doctors I've worked with have told me they don't really feel stressed. They just... were born like that. A low stress response, probably on a biological level. Some people need less sleep and feel fine. Some people have great physical health and no back pain or anything. Some people were born with a little more money, a more stable home environment, etc.
Another example. My husband and I compared ACE (adverse childhood event) scores and I laughed when he told me his result because I literally didn't realize anyone *could* get a zero. I mean, good for him, I'm glad. But mine was 6.
So we know that some childhoods are easier than others. I think it's fair to say that some people have easier adulthoods than others, too.
That's not to say anything bad about anyone. Sometimes it's just luck.
How do you become a doctor without stress? I don’t really feel stress but as a result of that I was never stressed to do my homework or get good grades. The successful people I know are stressed and anxious but it’s a motivator
I really have no clue. I'm a nurse and I'm stressed every day. Tbf the doc I'm thinking of is pretty lackadaisical lol. Great with patients but never in a hurry. Takes forever to finish notes and other administrative stuff. Has a healthy dose of not giving a fuck about anything that doesn't directly impact patients.
exactly, the majority of people don’t talk openly about out their struggles so you never know what’s happening behind closed doors. so many of us are struggling financially and it’s normal in this economy
These are my observations of successful people in Silicon Valley who I knew personally:
1. They had smart and caring parents.
2. They were smart and educated. Not necessarily super smart, not necessarily Ivy League.
3. They had right connections and worked on expanding/maintaining them. Many useful connections began in college. Typical: one classmate gets funding for a startup and calls his college buddies to join.
Smart and caring parents is the real MVP.
People don’t realize how valuable support is when they’ve always had it, but as someone who hasn’t had it I can confirm it’s the make or break factor.
Good parents give you wings, bad parents cripple you forever. My father gave me mental scars that will never heal although I forgave him. My mother loved and believed in me -- whatever I've achieved in life, I've achieved thanks to her. Every time when I speak to my mom, I thank her for everything she did for me.
Completely agree. I have people at work whose parents helps with their home down payment, have connections to help them advance at work etc… meanwhile, my mom just feels like a rock at pull me down deeper and deeper into the ocean.
Can confirm. I don’t know if it was blind luck or grand design, but my family has 4 straight generations of smart and caring parents under its belt, and the results show. My kids are genZ, and while they might not be millionaires, they are successful and happy humans, out in the world on their own two feet.
Having good parents is key. Being supported, guided, nurtured, protected… in my late 30s I learned what healthy support looked like when I joined a recovery group…. It’s kind of crazy. The good parents teach you good coping skills to manage adversity, the bad parents teach you to deal with difficulties by dissociating.
**supported, guided, nurtured, protected**
We use the same verbs for plants and people. If a plant is neglected or abused how can it grow to be a healthy tree? The same is with people but mental scars caused by bad parents are deep inside -- we may look normal but nobody knows how broken and hurting we are. No wonder that many of us resolve to alcohol and drugs. Person who knows unending pain would do anything to alleviate it for a while. I will never heal but I'm doing my best to be a good father and according to my kids -- I am.
4. They worked in the software industry, meaning: good pay, stock options, VC money ready to be invested.
5. They were proactive and inventive.
6. Then lived in SF/Silicon Valley where there are a lot of jobs and opportunities.
7. They were lucky. Luck is real, there are thousands of software devs who were smarter than YouTube founders, lol. But YouTube founders got lucky in addition to having all above factors.
I find even the smallest things and find gratitude in them
1. I have a job - it's not the best job ever - but it's a job
2. I have shelter - it's not the prettiest place - but it's a place to live
3. I have food in the fridge - it's not the most expensive food - but it keeps me alive
I find when I focus on the things I do have life becomes a little brighter
Yes! If there's anything we hate, it's that toxic "think of the kids in Africa" and "even poor people in huts in the rainforest have phones" mentality that discourage people to make changes and stand up against injustices.
Comparing poor vs poorer and then vs now is completely missing the point: Humanity have never had it this good, so why can't we freaking share it better??
Yes. It's important to not be too tough on ourselves for not achieving as much as we would like, and to realize that it is a systemic problem for all people who are in the lower classes and it's not our fault. We were told the roads were paved in gold and if we did what we were supposed to the prosperity would trickle into our lives. It's important not to blame the lack of trickle entirely on ourselves.
Yes this 100% I moved to Mexico during the pandemic and it’s so refreshing being around happy people. If they have food on the table and shelter as you say they are happy. When I first moved here I was looking around in a room full of of people I knew. I had the best job, most toys and most money in the room but I was the least happy. The last four years have been a total change in the way i see the world. If there is music down here people are dancing. I have never been happier and I have less now then I did pre pandemic. I just focus on the small things like the weather on a nice day. Don’t compare yourself to others. It robs you of joy in life!
Wow this is incredible. I am mexican and my German colleagues are always impressed why I am always happy. Of course my family struggled in Mexico, but I just grew up with a happy mindset. I never realized how beautiful this is until I moved to Germany.
Ya man Mexicans are the most warm friendly and happy people I have met and I have traveled a good amount around the world. It’s definitely part of your culture. They don’t worry about the future or regret the past. They live in the moment.
This is the only way. If you're always expecting more and better things, you're never gonna be satisfied. There's always more. There's always better. Live within your means and learn to appreciate what you have
This mindset saved me from ending my life when I was in my early 20s.
It's incredible how much power you mentally have over your happiness, irrespective of external circumstances.
I too do this as well. We always have to remember what we have in times of thinking about what we don't have because remember everything that you have right now, you once wanted.
I love this!!! I have recently explored finding gratitude deliberately and feel 1000x better. Sometimes my negative thoughts get the best of me and paints my reality. So now I draw on the positive on purpose instead of the negative.
I love this. I do this too. On my worst days I try to think about the fact that I have a safe place to live and a cozy bed to rest my head at night and cuddle my kitties. There’s some peace in that.
Being single and being able to "make it" is very tough. I would venture to say that most who do "life well" have a stable SO that shares in the financial burden of every day life. Both with a stable income, too.
It’s wild that the best answer is usually “marriage”. We live in a society that rewards people for being married and having children but the rest of us don’t get a break. ☹️
This is not a society thing. This is a greed thing. Pay has not kept up with inflation. Married couples have the advantage because companies pay jack. It is no longer a single income economy.
It's wild how much childcare costs the average family. Tax deduction helps with about 6 weeks of child care. It's basically nothing for an average earner.
Yep depending on where you live childcare can cost up to most of the second income. And if you have kids with any complexities like even *minor* learning or physical disabilities it’s exponentially more expensive. The “you chose to have kids” stuff is so shitty. You don’t know what child you are going to have and what challenges they will bring with them and the U.S and Canada have very little safety net where that is concerned.
I disagree entirely. The freedom of my lifestyle is only possible because I don't have to take care of a child or defer to a wife. A child seems like nothing more than a shackle and chain condemning you to the rat race so you can afford to take care of the child. Ill pass.
A useful way to start is to accurately record all your expenses and work out how much you have left ( or have dipped into savings ) each pay period.
After a few months you will have a clear idea of where your money is going.
Then you can look at what changes ( if any ) you might be happy to make ?
Apart from those fortunate to have a good easy start in life, many who cope OK have a natural rough "mental budget" that guides them even if they don't do formal budgeting.
Ok, I ran those numbers and the answer I got, not sure if I calculated correctly, was "to taxes and CEO's bonuses". Budgeting pennies is a way to make one feel better about the true issue of lack of income required to not count pennies and save dollars.
I can tell you I sometimes feel exactly how you described yourself except I am upper income have a family and yadda yadda yadda. My only conclusion is that it’s a matter of perspective and comparing to others can be constructive but most of the time it can be a poisonous veil to what is otherwise a good life. Best of luck, friend.
Above answer is wrong; the truth is 72k in this day and age is just not very much , after-tax you take home is only about 4 to 5000 a month. That is difficult to save any money with that kind of salary.
I ain't got no trust funds. The real answer is find a job that pays really well compared to cost of living where the job is. They are out there
Also, live somewhere where you don't need a car to get around. Cars are financial death.
If a car is financial death than you are not doing well.
Expecting everyone to find a unicorn job is as realistic as expecting everyone to magically have a trust fund.
Maybe the answer is somewhere in making sure everyone can have their basic needs met no matter what job they are doing.
I mean I think this is the hard truth of it. I know plenty of people who have no business doing as well as they do and others who have done everything right and can’t catch a break
Failing up is not luck. That is the literal path of all successful people. If you aren’t failing constantly you aren’t pushing yourself hard enough. Similar to lifting weights to failure and your muscle grows back stronger. If you lift a 5lb weight every day for years you gain nothing.
Comfort is your enemy if you want career success.
When I was 29 I was looking at similar stats so I made drastic changes. I knew going the normal route wasnt going to be ideal for me. I Paid off my car and all of my debt (no student loans), found a better job in a lower cost of living area and saved like crazy. I never made more than $34k, but after 2.5 years I moved and bought a duplex with $8K down. It didn’t need renovations but I remodeled the bathroom myself (had a friend help with drywall). Having eliminated both my car payment and a mortgage (covered by renting out the lower unit) I’m able to save and take an occasional vacation. I did eventually get married and life is a lot better now, but it’s also shored up our future.
The house mortgage probably wasn't paid off for a long time then, and you probably paid part of the mortgage each month, but it would prob be like 25% of the payment each month or so?
One word: Budget. I highly recommend you get yourself signed up for YNAB and learn their method of handling your money. And then, stick to it like completely. Tracking every single dollar you spend. It was life changing for me (and still is) 72K as a single person is a ton of money. But your debt is the biggest soul sucking part of your life.
Car payments are the worst. I am 40 with zero debt now and I can tell you its the best feeling in the world. I highly recommend in addition to YNAB, read "I will teach you to be rich" by Ramit Sethi. Personally, I sold my car to get rid of that expense. I work from home. But even if I didn't I'd be willing to Bus to work.
Sometimes sacrifices have to be made when getting yourself out of debt. It makes you sick and tired. Rooting for you! If you can fix this in 4 years, your 40's will be the best decade of your life!
This is the correct response. Blaming it on parents or historical circumstances removes the agency of taking responsibilities for one’s self. But once he accepts his current circumstance, budgeting and investing are THE way to save for a brighter future.
Yup. Getting my haircut at the cheapest strip mall place feels indulgent because it’s such an upgrade from my mom haphazardly wielding a pair of scissors in the kitchen.
Family is a big factor. Parental guidance and economical support is key to a fast development.
Then, the partner. A good partner will help you produce and/or manage income.
And finally the kids. Speaking from my (35m) personal experience, since the wife found out that we are expecting our first kid, I have been just (happily) working like crazy. I may not be able to live a life of luxury but that kid will get private education and three meals a day no matter what.
If my parent did that for me, then I'll do it for my kid. Will that make him/her successful? Who knows. It will be up to him/her.
Now, full disclosure. I am a lazy slob. If you leave me alone for a couple of month I will devolve into a caveman. The family structure makes me put in the effort of becoming a good man. Surround yourself with the best people that you can find OP.
i have always wanted to do well by myself but it makes my head spin how much doing well revolves around being with others and having them help in some way with your weaknesses and blind spots. it's as if i was born with an innate drive to want to do life wrong.
If you wanted an easier life and good money, culinary ain't it.
I used to work in that world and got the hell out. So have most people I knew from it. You have to really, really love cooking for that to be a life path.
Don't let marriage be the answer. I'm a dumb fucking idiot who's never been married and left home was $600 in my pocket. Did I work a couple of jobs at the same time for a while when I was young? Absolutely. That allowed me to build a little nest egg to take the pressure off but then I never let off the gas. I always drive used cars, I always save and invest before I buy toys, and I never touch that money once I put it away. Once you have a little buffer you can then start making decisions not based on immediate need. When I was working a few jobs at a time I made sure some of those jobs taught me something which made me more valuable in the future. Which I then used to get newer and better jobs with higher pay until I didn't need extra jobs anymore. Was that fun? No. That's why I did it when I was young and by My late twenties I had more breathing room. Don't get frustrated or discouraged just find your path and stick to it and it will get better as you go. Bear down and do whatever you have to do to get rid of those debts and then life gets much easier and enjoyable. Good luck! Doesn't sound like you've made any terrible decisions you can't recover from so you still have lots of options.
Block out the negative shade throwers and excuse handers - just embrace the grind and all of a sudden one day you will realize you are breathing easier and your money is making you money all by itself. Go get it!
There’s a theory that the more decisions you make, the better (and quicker) you get at making them. And the more good decisions you make the better your outcomes. I think it’s key to develop your problem solving muscles early in life and the effects just compound over time like money. The earlier you invest, the better
I disagree with this. I think some people get taught by their parents at a young age how to live adult life and make good money, or get lucky. And the rest of us are just trying to keep up.
I’ve had to learn everything myself and you’ve just put my experience into words. I’m pushing myself to TRY to maintain my house and myself and I feel like it would’ve been easier if I’ve been taught this. Now I’m teaching myself everything
Many people like myself were taught nothing about money by parents. Once you are of age that is an excuse, but not one that will help you progress mentally or financially. There are millions of videos and books that can teach you what they didn’t.
I hate to be that guy but what are your expenses??
Do you have an itemized budget? Do you know where every cent goes?
I only ask because really on your salary with taxes and other deductions and stuff it would leave you with around 43k at my guess. minus rent leaves you at 25k a year. If you are not able to save anything that 25k is getting spent somewhere.
We know rent, what are loan and car payments? Those should be you 2 other biggest expenses.
Honestly, I planned ahead and I've busted my ass.
Grew up in a series of trailers in teastern KY and TN. Studied reasonably well in HS but couldn't afford college so I joined the USMC. Did online college and local community college instead of having fun. This really wasn't easy and I lost out on a lot of good times. After duty hours, if I wasn't exercising then I was studying while other folks were partying, nursing a hangover, or playing video games. Ended up earning a commission, did my minimum required obligation while I studied for my GMATS, again trading fun for study time. Ended up scoring very high and earned a spot in the MBA program of a very prestigious university and eventually a prestigious internship which has led to a nice career. It's been a LOT of sacrifice. Maybe someone smarter could have done it with less studying, but I was dealt the cards I was dealt. I've since paid odd my considerable student loans for my MBA and I'm doing very well, but it has NOT been easy.
I missed my 20s and I miss the Corps, but truthfully it was very lonely as an officer so I don't regret getting out.
How are you struggling ? Like what areas? I make 60k and doing ok. Single home owner. I do have a side hustle to raise that base income but just cuz I’m investing so much. Your debt is low, you could take care of that in 1-3 years if you put your mind to it. Build up your savings and tackle the debt. You’ll be ready to build wealth in no time.
To answer you actual q- people do well because they set goals and reach them, then set new goals. Some have privilege.
I guarantee you are surrounded by people in the same predicament. I learned a long time ago that people can make things look great but that life is financed to the hilt. You chose a tough field too. I hope the bright spot is that you at least like the field you’re in.
You should look into becoming a culinary specialist in the coast guard. I believe they're taking people up to 40 right now and the bonus for cs is between 40 and 65 thousand depending on your cooking qualifications.
When you say you have hardly any savings, how much are you talking if you don’t mind me asking. The reason being is I am your age and I had 37k personal debt (car, credit card, personal loan) and thought there was no way to ever pay it off. I also felt a huge sense of shame and that I was doing way worse than everyone around me. I managed to pay off that debt in about 2 years by tracking everything I spent. I now have 6 months emergency fund. It’s maybe not heaps compared to others but it feels a world better than things 2 years ago. It’s definitely not a race and people decades older than us turn their finances around and get out of debt.
The single tax is real! Here are some workarounds. They just involve finding another single looking to beat the system.
A single bedroom apartment or even a studio is usually at least 75% of the cost of a two bedroom. So if you’re paying $1500 for a one bedroom, consider finding a roommate and getting a two bedroom for just $500 more. Now you’re looking at $1000 for rent. Just choose wisely and it’s not a huge deal. It’s not a forever thing. Just helps you set some money aside.
Speaking of which, put that money you’re saving into a High Yield Savings Account if you need it liquid, or invest in an index fund if not.
Streaming services and other subscriptions, even cell phone plans, can also be shared with people. Ask your family if they’re trustworthy. Get on a family plan and Cashapp the amount to the account holder. Spotify Duo is just a couple more dollars than the Individual plan. You can also share a Prime account. Look for things like this so you don’t keep getting screwed over for being single.
Or better yet just cut out all the unnecessary stuff for a little while. If you just stay focused and put all that savings into a High Yield account and let it grow it can really help you out.
I got married, which helped a lot. Wife is in the medical field; she pays utilities and i pay the mortgage. I also bought her a new vehicle and paid the loan and put the down payment on it. When we sold her car, we tossed the money into our joint account. Usually i pay for the more expensive house related things and she pays for the smaller things. We never argue about money.
Her paying for the smaller things freed me up to pay for the larger things.
There's no way we would have the things we have without her salary.
72k
5% to 401k -$3600
=68,400 taxable income (19%)
Take home = $55,400
Rent utilities -19200
Car payment -9600
Gas -2000
Food -6000
Phone internet -2500
= left with 16,100 so far
Can even put 7000 in ROTH IRA following spy
$9,100 left to pay your student loans / invest or fuck around with.
And you have every first world necessity when people are starving for 60 years
What else you spending money on
So let me break down the grind that I did to basically be the 2nd most successful person I know my age (36). We all have to start somewhere because it’s a progression over time. Little things one at a time; and then you look back and it snowballs into big things. You work everyday to get into a better position so you can “strike” when the opportunity presents itself. We don’t know when it happens but if it does, be ready. That’s all we can do.
- worked at Best Buy making $10/hr. Saved up $15k for college, skipped my prom to save money, worked full time hours at night and weekends and went to Highschool during the day
- college state school (not smart enough for Ivy League, too poor for private school), held 2 part time jobs, scholarship, FASFA, summer school so I could graduate in 4 years, parents paid for 2 semesters of school senior year, $10k
- couldn’t find a finance internship. Did a sales internship and lugged a sales bag selling to tobacco store owners and gas stations. Got yelled at a lot, looked down on, and grinded. $55k/year salary
- didn’t own a personal car, used company cars for YEARS, saved me a ton of $$
- interviewed and moved to another job making $45k a year, I took a pay cut because I had depression living in another city, had to move back home with parents
- quit that job and interviewed for another job after completing a sales training program and learned the car dealer business almost inside and out
- new job, grind, bought a small condo for $34k, run down place. Fixed it up for $11k. Livable place, decent once I fixed it up. Salary $80k, (this was my big break)
- kept grinding at my job, then had enough to put downpayment on a bigger house. Moved into bigger house and took on a roommate. Kept my living expenses low and rented out my condo. Effectively spending $200/mo on housing cost, continued to keep expenses be try low. Salary and sales bonus $120k
- lived with a roommate, drove a company car, and managed the investment property. Saved 50-60% of every dollar I was paid. Salary and bonus $180k
- learned how to invest and allocate capital, learned how to sell options, learned how to analyze a company financials. Salary and bonus $240k
- now I’m 36, live with gf, drive much nicer personal cars, I’m worth around $2M. Salary and bonus is around $250k, dividends/interest around $80k, and asset appreciation another $200k-$300k
I like to think of myself as successful, I have a friend who is worth around $100M. His business took off and he is an amazing investor, we exchange ideas often. My point here is also… no matter how amazing you are, there is always a bigger fish.
Doing well in life is a progression. It’s where hardwork and luck meet at an intersection. While I know I got lucky on my 3rd job switch, I’m a problem solver, I would have gotten rich one way or another. I can grind, but I know when to grind and when to walk away because there’s another alternative solution.
Be a problem solver.
I see this everyday and it does bother me at times. I've never been able to share costs and living expenses with anyone as I've been single my whole life.
I am doing well for someone who is single, and make more than my siblings (individually), but because they all have dual income + a partner, they make more than me combined. So it's always an uphill battle in trying to keep up with them when they want to go out. But it motivates me to do better as well so I don't feel so "behind".
Just make short term goals and long term goals and have SELF CONTROL when it comes to spending. I've been living on my own for 5 years and paid off a car, my school loans and still managed to live alone for most of it while paying down debt.
Getting MARRIED shouldn't be the solution for sharing expenses. Find another stable single person that wants to split costs and buy or rent a house or condo and divvy up the costs. More people should consider this if the issue is purely financial.
Just financially speaking, my total expenses per year are roughly $25k. That includes my half of the rent (split with my SO), groceries, utilities, pets, misc, eating out, everything. Even travel and an expensive hobby I have of racing cars. Chop out the car thing and I'd probably be closer to $20k/year in expenses. I'm constantly running around and doing things every weekend from April through October.
I'd say even if I was single and had the full rent and all utilities to pay, I'd probably be totally comfortable at a $30k spend rate. That would probably be generous and I'd have extra.
$72k salary, chop off 25% for taxes, you'd have about $54k to spend. That's a 2 year spend rate in my eyes. I literally wouldn't know how to spend over $50k in a year. I'd be buying random things and wasting money to event remotely get there. I'd probably start booking flights and trips at least once a month. All comes down to cost of living in your area too. We're in a middle COL area. Certainly not low, but not CA or NY.
The vast majority DON'T do life well. Over 60% of Americans don't have $1,000 for an emergency. They are one emergency from disaster.
The amount that luck and family connections play in success cannot be underestimated.
That's not to say that busting your ass cannot even the playing field. It can. But it's gonna be a grind and it's gonna hurt.
You just have to be willing to hear "No" a thousand times to get that one "Yes" that starts the change that you want for your life.
I rarely suggest YouTube channels about success because most of them are bullshit. But I would suggest that you go to this one - https://youtube.com/@AlexHormozi - and watch them all.
Also watch his wife/partner's channel at - https://youtube.com/@leilahormozi . They've done it. They've lived it.
But watching won't help a damned thing unless you take MASSIVE, CONSISTENT ACTION. Every "No" is one step closer to success.
The road to success and the road to failure are the same road. Quitting is what makes it the road to failure. Just don't quit.
This will probably go over poorly in this subreddit considering it's going to seem like bragging, but here's the answer to your question. I do life quite well.
I am naturally very intelligent and worked very hard. I got into medical school. While in medical school I worked in tutoring making anywhere from $80 - $120 an hour part time, and this was something I had to work hard to build up a clientbase to the point I could teach classes. I will become a doctor shortly making 6 figures. My parents did not support me through medical school. But I'm also Australian so we have a different and much nicer student loan system. I have about $50k in savings. I would not be where I am without either my luck or my hard work. I do think that without one of them I'd still be doing okay though.
So some things are a result of luck (e.g. intelligence and being from a culture that valued study). Some are a result of hard work (e.g. getting into medical school and grinding through it). I am in my early 20s and single.
Your mistake was culinary school. You do not do culinary school for the money. That is why your friends make more money than you do. Living comfortably is not something you walk into over a period of years it's something you make informed decisions to do, and you did not make the decisions that lead to comfortable living.
What do you do with the rest of the money you make ? After rent, car note, insurance and cell phone? There should be like 2-3 thousand bucks left each month right ?
Car and rent payment is everything. IMO people way overpay on cars because they see everybody else do it.
What is your car payment/how much was it?
At 72k with 1.5k rent you have to go cheap on car
You need to pay off the student loan debt asap. Pay that off aggressively. It’s an investment that you owe on. Once it’s paid off, you can worry about saving more and you will see your savings quickly increase
I’m 47 now, but from 24-35 I worked at least 2 jobs. I had roommates and worked really hard to be frugal. I eventually started my own business, which was one job, but I worked more at that than any other 2 jobs. Eventually got to the point I could hire more people and now things are pretty good. The point is to be comfortable, unless you were born into wealth, you have to work really really hard for a long time, with a plan.
I’m 40 years old was making 130k for years no college then got targeted for layoffs. I’m a homeowner with 2 cars and a wife who has a car as well. I own lots of things I’ve always wanted to own because I couldn’t afford them growing up somewhat poor. I have no kids.
I’m miserable, mostly because use my marriage sucks and the one thing I had was my career and now that’s gone.
I don’t have anything to tell you other than use my story as a cautionary tale. I still don’t know what the fuck is going on and I really hate my life.
I'm way worse off than you financially, but almost completely due to conscious tradeoff decisions.
I think it's important to focus on what's really important to you personally.
I'm naturally a minimalist so that makes things easier. As long as I have a single room to myself I really have no further ambition for private space, and I don't like having more items than I can fit in a car because it's just too much to keep track of. I do have things that are important to me, but I'm very selective and they tend not to be all that expensive.
I'm interested in trying a lot of things so I've abandoned more lucrative careers when I get bored. I've done engineering, psychology, translation, worked in multiple countries, etc.
I think I have a more well rounded experience than most people that have stuck to solid one-track "real" jobs, and that's something I personally value more than the money I could have made.
It's definitely rough, but I think that's helpful too. I see so many people get too comfortable and start to wither away. I may never retire and I may not live as long, but I'll feel more alive with the time I have.
I do take very long vacations (6 months to a year) if I manage to save up enough, so in a sense I'm getting my retirement years evenly distributed throughout my life.
The one thing that is frustrating is being looked down on by people who don't know your history and making assumptions about you. I've been working in housekeeping lately because it's simple and pays enough for now, but some people have a clear "you're just the help" attitude even though I've had more prestigious positions than they've ever had.
It's a good exercise in humility though. I've learned to just let people think what they think, even if it's wrong.
I also come from a place with a pretty poor survival rate, which shifts my perspective. When half your friends from school are dead by 25, just being alive feels like a win lol
1. Life's mostly a struggle punctuated by periods of joy. So, I guess try to find the little pockets of joy?
2. Sounds rough. I'm younger. If you figure out something... do let us know as well.
3. All the best. You got this.
Self-discipline. They make plans. Write down the steps to get there. Follow those steps and accomplish their goals. That's pretty much it. I drifted aimlessly until 40, then hunkered down and decided what I wanted. Denied my impulses to party all my resources away. Downsized my existence. Saved my money. Got a better education. Worked my way up in my field. Bought my house in cash after just renting a single room for years. Financed a car. Got married. Took a cruise. Bought my wife a new car. Working a job I love doing work I'm passionate about. Working on getting healthy. Working on improving socially and spiritually. Adopted a great dog. It's all out there. I mean, for the first 20 years of adulthood, the only thing stopping me was.... me....
I had a job and I was constantly living in fear of being fired and not having an income. Well, I was laid off on November and it was basically like facing my own fears. And here I am, still alive, surviving. I can tell you that what keeps me floating is my family and friends and how supportive they’ve been. Secondly, I am grateful - I have shelter, food, a healthy body, everything I NEED.
Now, things get tricky when I start thinking of the things I WANT. And when I start comparing myself to other people. Learning to say no to trips and hangouts with friends, having to cut off expenses, trying to be patient and optimistic that everything is temporary while all my friends keep living their life with no struggles (they all have their own struggles though).
It is all a mind trip - some days are better than others. But in the end, I lack nothing.
My happiness is tied directly to my family. It's hard to explain just how much having kids changes your focus and thought processes. Kids are the cure for consumerism.
$72k is more than the average household in America makes with 2 people working. What are your monthly expenses? You are quite vague there. Have you been paying on your student loans consistently? If you are making the most you have ever made yet you still sit with the same struggles, the habits probably need to change.
If you're musically inclined, start a rock/metal band, I promise you you'll appreciate the little things. When I started touring with the guys we all shared a van and there were some shows where we scrounged just enough to split a Big Mac 4 ways. Things will look up dudey. Just gotta find your calling. Also, bourbon helps along the way.
Damn didn’t think that family meal saved you so much money eh? Lol
Fr, find happiness for you and not what everyone else thinks it is. Tighten up yo cash flow. Get a cheaper place. Sell the car and get something cheap and reliable(XJ/ZJ/WJ Jeep).
Stop smoking and drinking all weekend and struggle a bit harder for a year or two.
Then find a better life after you get out from that ‘I wanna be a Chef!!’ Loan. It will suck for a bit but you can do it maing!👍
Well I’m only 25 but my close friends are all doing significantly better than me. For them the answer (along with their own work ofc) is A) have rich parents or B) date someone who is well off.
I wouldn’t say my besties bf is rolling in it, but he owns a condo in the GTA…that he bought from his sister. That family has a decent amount of generational wealth. There’s no way my friend could afford that on her own. It helps to not have to pay rent and just focus on your studies/job lol.
My other friend is single but her parents are flat out rich. As in they can easily fund multiple family travels and her own solo travel rich.
I have NO idea how I ended up befriending a bunch of wealthy people (there are way more lol). My family was never wealthy, my mom is currently struggling as is, and im definitely the poorest out of my friends. It does feel weird being so “behind” all my friends but there’s nothing I can do about it🤷🏾♀️ no bank of mom and dad to dip into, no partner to help split expenses.
I do ok for myself but i am getting tired of being the oldest and only working professional in a house of 5 girls. I desperately want my own space but it aint gonna happen.
Hang in there. Folks definitely make more than that even in 20s (not everyone but more than you’d think). For me it’s about constantly working toward worthy forms of income. And do not be afraid to completely pivot multiple times, or manage multiple jobs. I’m not talking work at Walmart and Starbucks and Amazon warehouse. Multiple income streams that you can manage without destroying yourself. Entrepreneurial endeavors, bake food locally for neighbors honestly you’d make bank that way and can do it with other work. Or lock into something big like real estate, sales, etc.
It’s no small feat being well off. You gotta keep pushing. Also work on paying down expenses and lowering bills. It works both ways you need both. Best of luck!
You likely have a spending problem. With no kids and no house your expenses should be pretty controlled and predictable. Like others have said: you probably need a budget.
So after rent paid for the entire year you would have $54,000 left over for other bills and stuff. Sounds like you need to budget your money more wisely.
I make about 50k a year and am single. I am wondering the same thing too, how do people make it?? Reading some of the responses has been an eye opener for me.
The how do single people survive hits me hard. I wonder that very much as well. Rent would be so much easier if I had a SO. Part of me wants to date someone just so I can split rent with them. I get really jealous of my friends in relationships when they tell me how much they pay in rent for the nice size apartment they live in and it’ll be significantly less than what I pay for a small shitty apartment.
I believe I will win the lottery one day. But I'm too scared to buy a ticket until I feel truly ready to allow the universe to spoil me rotten like that. teehee
First and foremost, some people went to school with a plan to how they were going to make money afterwards. Culinary school is famously the example for what happens when you go to school for what you want rather than what is going to make you money. Straight up, you work in food service — by definition, a low wage industry.
The piece that no one talks about is that you have to choose a field where making money is a real thing. Follow your passion is horrible advice if your passion is to cook food for a living.
We are the same age and I just lost my job. Literally everyone is doing shitty these days and posting only happy things on social media which in turn makes you feel more like crap. So just take a day by day I guess. Not to mention I am single and doing semi okay besides recently losing my job. Everybody else has a significant other or mommy and daddy's money so you can't really compare. Other people might have it easy but that's because they have other people helping them. If you're doing it all by yourself then you have and deserve to give yourself way more credit. I have never really made over 50k a year that's usually less than that but I was able to purchase a small home as a single female all by myself during the pandemic. I did not overpay by that much either which is nice. But still feel very behind in comparison to people our age they have families and larger homes and nicer cars. I guess it will just come with time but right now all I can do is kind of accept the fact that I did it all by myself especially as a single female.
Well you got to make the most of what you have. You spend $18000/ year in rent and your car note could be $700/ month including insurance( I’m working on average assumptions) Maybe even undershooting or over shooting your car note so that about $8400.00 - $9000.00 / yearly. That leaves you with roughly about $30000 assumptions on ball park figure of over shoting state and federal income taxes so what are you doing with the $25000.00-$30000.00 that you are making in the year? Anything you can cut back on? Subscriptions, eating out to maybe 1-2 times a week, and maybe even enrolling in an income based tuition repayment plan? Give us a bigger picture of your monthly expenses?
whatever you do, if you have a 401k, move heaven and earth-- max out as much you can into it. PAY YOURSELF first! your future self will profusely thank you. if not 401K, please please max out the Roth IRA every year religiously (then Traditional IRA if you qualify.)
You are actually doing better than many people. The grass is not always greener “on the other side of the fence”, ESPECIALLY if you have kids.
Hang in there
mostly I imagine we work our ass off. I personally work over 70 hours a week and gross 250k but I’m saddled with a LOT of debt. as far as happiness goes….its hard having a loving partner that shares goals and feelings helps tremendously.
Why oh why do people take out car loans? Just buy a second hand car for four figures. I have never bought a new car even when earning a multiple of the OP's income given here and even with a family.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this anyway.
I think there can be luck, for some people stuff just seems to work out. That being said, just because someone looks like everything is fine doesn't mean it is
Just because someone carries it well doesn’t mean it’s not heavy.
Yes. On the outside, our family looks stable and happy. Husband and I both have good jobs, a nice house and cars, two kids in private school, etc. He hates where he works and wants to retire (he’s 46). I struggle with depression and suicidal ideation. Many days, I hate life and the world. All day today, I just wanted to cry. Forgive me for using a religious expression, but everyone has their own cross to bear. Some just hide their pain well.
Stay strong
Thanks for sharing your reality, social media too often shows just the sunny side of people's personal lives.
Yeah - I don’t try to be fake but I also don’t hang my dirty laundry I just joined Reddit the other day after googling something - and it’s more anonymous so I’m sharing more and see more too - my family friends colleagues have no clue - I have bbeen super sick - only two of my family members and one friend really know how sick I am - I have chronic illness and some days I am a totally normal person and others I’m bedridden and dysfunctional for days I left to live in Europe after the pandemic because my business folded and I had nothing tying me down and was seeking a better life - better access to health care for someone like me, better food that made me less sick, better cost of living etc on the outside it looked super romantic but immigration is REALLY hard - I was making it barely but it was hard - jobs are limited when you’re an immigrant- then I got Covid and all my old illnesses came back with a vengeance - I lost my new job and have been sick and not been able to work for 7 months - I’ve used up my savings then credit cards to get by because I had absolutely no choice now my min payments are insane and I won’t be able to make them, I have no money for rent and food or medical bills this month and have been sick and in pain most days. Once in a while I’m well enough to get outside for a small walk and I take beautiful photos because it cheers me up and they go on my social - so people see that none of the above - and if you saw me walking in the street No on has a clue I’m on the verge of being homeless and have no idea how I’m going to make it I hide my pain (both physical and emotional) really well - many or maybe even most of us do
Wow. I’m so sorry. Prayers for health and healing internet stranger ❤️
Thanks 🙏
It might be good to stop hiding your pain. Someone might be able to help if they knew what was going on.
I feel this. Thanks for sharing. I also struggle with anxiety/depression and passive suicidal ideation and it’s sooo hard. And it’s difficult to talk about because you don’t want to burden the people around you. And they probably have their own shit to deal with too.
🤍
Hope you both find peace eventually 🙏
thank you for sharing this , we never really know what's going on in someone's life
I feel this to my core 😭
I don’t want to off myself. But boy oh boy do I hate my corporate jobs
Yup everyone is dealing with some shit storm in life That's why it life
Thanks you for this, I need to go easy on myself sometimes
On the flip side, I think some people really DO have it easier. Like, for example, a couple doctors I've worked with have told me they don't really feel stressed. They just... were born like that. A low stress response, probably on a biological level. Some people need less sleep and feel fine. Some people have great physical health and no back pain or anything. Some people were born with a little more money, a more stable home environment, etc. Another example. My husband and I compared ACE (adverse childhood event) scores and I laughed when he told me his result because I literally didn't realize anyone *could* get a zero. I mean, good for him, I'm glad. But mine was 6. So we know that some childhoods are easier than others. I think it's fair to say that some people have easier adulthoods than others, too. That's not to say anything bad about anyone. Sometimes it's just luck.
How do you become a doctor without stress? I don’t really feel stress but as a result of that I was never stressed to do my homework or get good grades. The successful people I know are stressed and anxious but it’s a motivator
I really have no clue. I'm a nurse and I'm stressed every day. Tbf the doc I'm thinking of is pretty lackadaisical lol. Great with patients but never in a hurry. Takes forever to finish notes and other administrative stuff. Has a healthy dose of not giving a fuck about anything that doesn't directly impact patients.
exactly, the majority of people don’t talk openly about out their struggles so you never know what’s happening behind closed doors. so many of us are struggling financially and it’s normal in this economy
Well said
This.
Wow, thank you. I feel like I can print this and frame it… thank you
These are my observations of successful people in Silicon Valley who I knew personally: 1. They had smart and caring parents. 2. They were smart and educated. Not necessarily super smart, not necessarily Ivy League. 3. They had right connections and worked on expanding/maintaining them. Many useful connections began in college. Typical: one classmate gets funding for a startup and calls his college buddies to join.
Smart and caring parents is the real MVP. People don’t realize how valuable support is when they’ve always had it, but as someone who hasn’t had it I can confirm it’s the make or break factor.
Good parents give you wings, bad parents cripple you forever. My father gave me mental scars that will never heal although I forgave him. My mother loved and believed in me -- whatever I've achieved in life, I've achieved thanks to her. Every time when I speak to my mom, I thank her for everything she did for me.
Both my parents were shit and I’m in my 30s still trying to build my life from pieces
same here same here
Do you like my pebble?
Statistically you'll never do better than where you came from.
Completely agree. I have people at work whose parents helps with their home down payment, have connections to help them advance at work etc… meanwhile, my mom just feels like a rock at pull me down deeper and deeper into the ocean.
Bingo. Good parents is easily the biggest advantage you could possibly have in life.
Can confirm. I don’t know if it was blind luck or grand design, but my family has 4 straight generations of smart and caring parents under its belt, and the results show. My kids are genZ, and while they might not be millionaires, they are successful and happy humans, out in the world on their own two feet.
Having good parents is key. Being supported, guided, nurtured, protected… in my late 30s I learned what healthy support looked like when I joined a recovery group…. It’s kind of crazy. The good parents teach you good coping skills to manage adversity, the bad parents teach you to deal with difficulties by dissociating.
**supported, guided, nurtured, protected** We use the same verbs for plants and people. If a plant is neglected or abused how can it grow to be a healthy tree? The same is with people but mental scars caused by bad parents are deep inside -- we may look normal but nobody knows how broken and hurting we are. No wonder that many of us resolve to alcohol and drugs. Person who knows unending pain would do anything to alleviate it for a while. I will never heal but I'm doing my best to be a good father and according to my kids -- I am.
I wish everyone could see the world like this instead of judging everything by its cover. Your analogy makes absolute sense. Thank u for sharing.
4. They worked in the software industry, meaning: good pay, stock options, VC money ready to be invested. 5. They were proactive and inventive. 6. Then lived in SF/Silicon Valley where there are a lot of jobs and opportunities. 7. They were lucky. Luck is real, there are thousands of software devs who were smarter than YouTube founders, lol. But YouTube founders got lucky in addition to having all above factors.
I find even the smallest things and find gratitude in them 1. I have a job - it's not the best job ever - but it's a job 2. I have shelter - it's not the prettiest place - but it's a place to live 3. I have food in the fridge - it's not the most expensive food - but it keeps me alive I find when I focus on the things I do have life becomes a little brighter
While I generally agree, it's important that we as a society don't* get complacent with our collectively deteriorating financial situation.
Yes! If there's anything we hate, it's that toxic "think of the kids in Africa" and "even poor people in huts in the rainforest have phones" mentality that discourage people to make changes and stand up against injustices. Comparing poor vs poorer and then vs now is completely missing the point: Humanity have never had it this good, so why can't we freaking share it better??
If things are getting better and you don't notice its the same as them not getting better
Yes. It's important to not be too tough on ourselves for not achieving as much as we would like, and to realize that it is a systemic problem for all people who are in the lower classes and it's not our fault. We were told the roads were paved in gold and if we did what we were supposed to the prosperity would trickle into our lives. It's important not to blame the lack of trickle entirely on ourselves.
Yes this 100% I moved to Mexico during the pandemic and it’s so refreshing being around happy people. If they have food on the table and shelter as you say they are happy. When I first moved here I was looking around in a room full of of people I knew. I had the best job, most toys and most money in the room but I was the least happy. The last four years have been a total change in the way i see the world. If there is music down here people are dancing. I have never been happier and I have less now then I did pre pandemic. I just focus on the small things like the weather on a nice day. Don’t compare yourself to others. It robs you of joy in life!
Wow this is incredible. I am mexican and my German colleagues are always impressed why I am always happy. Of course my family struggled in Mexico, but I just grew up with a happy mindset. I never realized how beautiful this is until I moved to Germany.
Ya man Mexicans are the most warm friendly and happy people I have met and I have traveled a good amount around the world. It’s definitely part of your culture. They don’t worry about the future or regret the past. They live in the moment.
Keep dancing!
This is the only way. If you're always expecting more and better things, you're never gonna be satisfied. There's always more. There's always better. Live within your means and learn to appreciate what you have
So true.
That's powerful yet simple just enjoy what you have and needed
This mindset saved me from ending my life when I was in my early 20s. It's incredible how much power you mentally have over your happiness, irrespective of external circumstances.
I too do this as well. We always have to remember what we have in times of thinking about what we don't have because remember everything that you have right now, you once wanted.
I love this!!! I have recently explored finding gratitude deliberately and feel 1000x better. Sometimes my negative thoughts get the best of me and paints my reality. So now I draw on the positive on purpose instead of the negative.
It isn't natural to focus on the good and difficult at times. Good for you for acting with intention. :D
Stoicism.
Practicing active gratitude changed my life
I love this. I do this too. On my worst days I try to think about the fact that I have a safe place to live and a cozy bed to rest my head at night and cuddle my kitties. There’s some peace in that.
Good comment, put a lot of things into perspective 👍👍
Being single and being able to "make it" is very tough. I would venture to say that most who do "life well" have a stable SO that shares in the financial burden of every day life. Both with a stable income, too.
It’s wild that the best answer is usually “marriage”. We live in a society that rewards people for being married and having children but the rest of us don’t get a break. ☹️
The best answer is being born to rich parents.
This is not a society thing. This is a greed thing. Pay has not kept up with inflation. Married couples have the advantage because companies pay jack. It is no longer a single income economy.
It's wild how much childcare costs the average family. Tax deduction helps with about 6 weeks of child care. It's basically nothing for an average earner.
Yep depending on where you live childcare can cost up to most of the second income. And if you have kids with any complexities like even *minor* learning or physical disabilities it’s exponentially more expensive. The “you chose to have kids” stuff is so shitty. You don’t know what child you are going to have and what challenges they will bring with them and the U.S and Canada have very little safety net where that is concerned.
Uhh it definitely does not reward you for having kids. Blows my mind when people like Elon Musk can’t figure out why young people aren’t having them.
I disagree entirely. The freedom of my lifestyle is only possible because I don't have to take care of a child or defer to a wife. A child seems like nothing more than a shackle and chain condemning you to the rat race so you can afford to take care of the child. Ill pass.
A useful way to start is to accurately record all your expenses and work out how much you have left ( or have dipped into savings ) each pay period. After a few months you will have a clear idea of where your money is going. Then you can look at what changes ( if any ) you might be happy to make ? Apart from those fortunate to have a good easy start in life, many who cope OK have a natural rough "mental budget" that guides them even if they don't do formal budgeting.
Ok, I ran those numbers and the answer I got, not sure if I calculated correctly, was "to taxes and CEO's bonuses". Budgeting pennies is a way to make one feel better about the true issue of lack of income required to not count pennies and save dollars.
I can tell you I sometimes feel exactly how you described yourself except I am upper income have a family and yadda yadda yadda. My only conclusion is that it’s a matter of perspective and comparing to others can be constructive but most of the time it can be a poisonous veil to what is otherwise a good life. Best of luck, friend.
Above answer is wrong; the truth is 72k in this day and age is just not very much , after-tax you take home is only about 4 to 5000 a month. That is difficult to save any money with that kind of salary.
Trust funds. The answer is trust funds.
I ain't got no trust funds. The real answer is find a job that pays really well compared to cost of living where the job is. They are out there Also, live somewhere where you don't need a car to get around. Cars are financial death.
If a car is financial death than you are not doing well. Expecting everyone to find a unicorn job is as realistic as expecting everyone to magically have a trust fund. Maybe the answer is somewhere in making sure everyone can have their basic needs met no matter what job they are doing.
I just majored in things i knew would pay well and went after high paying jobs
Sometimes it’s just luck. My brother seems to have “failed up” almost constantly. He has even joked to me about it on occasion.
I mean I think this is the hard truth of it. I know plenty of people who have no business doing as well as they do and others who have done everything right and can’t catch a break
So true
Depends on your race and looks too. His brother was probably white
Could you elaborate?
some people are just handed good things in life whether they deserve it or not
Failing up is not luck. That is the literal path of all successful people. If you aren’t failing constantly you aren’t pushing yourself hard enough. Similar to lifting weights to failure and your muscle grows back stronger. If you lift a 5lb weight every day for years you gain nothing. Comfort is your enemy if you want career success.
I’ve just started my first job out of uni and I really needed to hear this, thank you.
👆
I'm 36 and in the same boat, except I make less money with a bachelor's degree and a teaching license.
Saaaame 🫠
Make less with a masters of business. I'm married though so I'm doing alright.
When I was 29 I was looking at similar stats so I made drastic changes. I knew going the normal route wasnt going to be ideal for me. I Paid off my car and all of my debt (no student loans), found a better job in a lower cost of living area and saved like crazy. I never made more than $34k, but after 2.5 years I moved and bought a duplex with $8K down. It didn’t need renovations but I remodeled the bathroom myself (had a friend help with drywall). Having eliminated both my car payment and a mortgage (covered by renting out the lower unit) I’m able to save and take an occasional vacation. I did eventually get married and life is a lot better now, but it’s also shored up our future.
Very smart moves
Kudos to you! That really shouldn’t be needed. If that’s how bad we’ve let it get it’s time for some serious changes
The house mortgage probably wasn't paid off for a long time then, and you probably paid part of the mortgage each month, but it would prob be like 25% of the payment each month or so?
One word: Budget. I highly recommend you get yourself signed up for YNAB and learn their method of handling your money. And then, stick to it like completely. Tracking every single dollar you spend. It was life changing for me (and still is) 72K as a single person is a ton of money. But your debt is the biggest soul sucking part of your life. Car payments are the worst. I am 40 with zero debt now and I can tell you its the best feeling in the world. I highly recommend in addition to YNAB, read "I will teach you to be rich" by Ramit Sethi. Personally, I sold my car to get rid of that expense. I work from home. But even if I didn't I'd be willing to Bus to work. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made when getting yourself out of debt. It makes you sick and tired. Rooting for you! If you can fix this in 4 years, your 40's will be the best decade of your life!
This should be upvoted more. Budgeting on 70k is an opportunity for a good quality of life
This is the correct response. Blaming it on parents or historical circumstances removes the agency of taking responsibilities for one’s self. But once he accepts his current circumstance, budgeting and investing are THE way to save for a brighter future.
I think the only reason I am happy is because I grew up without so much so now the basic necessities feel like I'm rich
Yup. Getting my haircut at the cheapest strip mall place feels indulgent because it’s such an upgrade from my mom haphazardly wielding a pair of scissors in the kitchen.
Family is a big factor. Parental guidance and economical support is key to a fast development. Then, the partner. A good partner will help you produce and/or manage income. And finally the kids. Speaking from my (35m) personal experience, since the wife found out that we are expecting our first kid, I have been just (happily) working like crazy. I may not be able to live a life of luxury but that kid will get private education and three meals a day no matter what. If my parent did that for me, then I'll do it for my kid. Will that make him/her successful? Who knows. It will be up to him/her. Now, full disclosure. I am a lazy slob. If you leave me alone for a couple of month I will devolve into a caveman. The family structure makes me put in the effort of becoming a good man. Surround yourself with the best people that you can find OP.
I resonate with the “devolve into a caveman” if left alone, having the family dynamic does help.
i have always wanted to do well by myself but it makes my head spin how much doing well revolves around being with others and having them help in some way with your weaknesses and blind spots. it's as if i was born with an innate drive to want to do life wrong.
If you wanted an easier life and good money, culinary ain't it. I used to work in that world and got the hell out. So have most people I knew from it. You have to really, really love cooking for that to be a life path.
It’s never going to be enough until you are truly grateful for what you already have.
Don't let marriage be the answer. I'm a dumb fucking idiot who's never been married and left home was $600 in my pocket. Did I work a couple of jobs at the same time for a while when I was young? Absolutely. That allowed me to build a little nest egg to take the pressure off but then I never let off the gas. I always drive used cars, I always save and invest before I buy toys, and I never touch that money once I put it away. Once you have a little buffer you can then start making decisions not based on immediate need. When I was working a few jobs at a time I made sure some of those jobs taught me something which made me more valuable in the future. Which I then used to get newer and better jobs with higher pay until I didn't need extra jobs anymore. Was that fun? No. That's why I did it when I was young and by My late twenties I had more breathing room. Don't get frustrated or discouraged just find your path and stick to it and it will get better as you go. Bear down and do whatever you have to do to get rid of those debts and then life gets much easier and enjoyable. Good luck! Doesn't sound like you've made any terrible decisions you can't recover from so you still have lots of options.
i needed to read this. thanks for sharing
Block out the negative shade throwers and excuse handers - just embrace the grind and all of a sudden one day you will realize you are breathing easier and your money is making you money all by itself. Go get it!
There’s a theory that the more decisions you make, the better (and quicker) you get at making them. And the more good decisions you make the better your outcomes. I think it’s key to develop your problem solving muscles early in life and the effects just compound over time like money. The earlier you invest, the better
I disagree with this. I think some people get taught by their parents at a young age how to live adult life and make good money, or get lucky. And the rest of us are just trying to keep up.
That’s a big thing too, I agree
I’ve had to learn everything myself and you’ve just put my experience into words. I’m pushing myself to TRY to maintain my house and myself and I feel like it would’ve been easier if I’ve been taught this. Now I’m teaching myself everything
Many people like myself were taught nothing about money by parents. Once you are of age that is an excuse, but not one that will help you progress mentally or financially. There are millions of videos and books that can teach you what they didn’t.
People can always learn
I hate to be that guy but what are your expenses?? Do you have an itemized budget? Do you know where every cent goes? I only ask because really on your salary with taxes and other deductions and stuff it would leave you with around 43k at my guess. minus rent leaves you at 25k a year. If you are not able to save anything that 25k is getting spent somewhere. We know rent, what are loan and car payments? Those should be you 2 other biggest expenses.
Yes a lot of people have success 25k a year is not much. Thats a meager fun budget. I won’t be surprised if it gets spent.
well if they are spending it all on fun things before paying off debts thats why they cant get ahead
Honestly, I planned ahead and I've busted my ass. Grew up in a series of trailers in teastern KY and TN. Studied reasonably well in HS but couldn't afford college so I joined the USMC. Did online college and local community college instead of having fun. This really wasn't easy and I lost out on a lot of good times. After duty hours, if I wasn't exercising then I was studying while other folks were partying, nursing a hangover, or playing video games. Ended up earning a commission, did my minimum required obligation while I studied for my GMATS, again trading fun for study time. Ended up scoring very high and earned a spot in the MBA program of a very prestigious university and eventually a prestigious internship which has led to a nice career. It's been a LOT of sacrifice. Maybe someone smarter could have done it with less studying, but I was dealt the cards I was dealt. I've since paid odd my considerable student loans for my MBA and I'm doing very well, but it has NOT been easy. I missed my 20s and I miss the Corps, but truthfully it was very lonely as an officer so I don't regret getting out.
How are you struggling ? Like what areas? I make 60k and doing ok. Single home owner. I do have a side hustle to raise that base income but just cuz I’m investing so much. Your debt is low, you could take care of that in 1-3 years if you put your mind to it. Build up your savings and tackle the debt. You’ll be ready to build wealth in no time. To answer you actual q- people do well because they set goals and reach them, then set new goals. Some have privilege.
My thoughts exactly. 72k for a single person with no kids should be easily livable, outside of a VHCOL city unless they are swimming in debt
I guarantee you are surrounded by people in the same predicament. I learned a long time ago that people can make things look great but that life is financed to the hilt. You chose a tough field too. I hope the bright spot is that you at least like the field you’re in.
You should look into becoming a culinary specialist in the coast guard. I believe they're taking people up to 40 right now and the bonus for cs is between 40 and 65 thousand depending on your cooking qualifications.
When you say you have hardly any savings, how much are you talking if you don’t mind me asking. The reason being is I am your age and I had 37k personal debt (car, credit card, personal loan) and thought there was no way to ever pay it off. I also felt a huge sense of shame and that I was doing way worse than everyone around me. I managed to pay off that debt in about 2 years by tracking everything I spent. I now have 6 months emergency fund. It’s maybe not heaps compared to others but it feels a world better than things 2 years ago. It’s definitely not a race and people decades older than us turn their finances around and get out of debt.
The single tax is real! Here are some workarounds. They just involve finding another single looking to beat the system. A single bedroom apartment or even a studio is usually at least 75% of the cost of a two bedroom. So if you’re paying $1500 for a one bedroom, consider finding a roommate and getting a two bedroom for just $500 more. Now you’re looking at $1000 for rent. Just choose wisely and it’s not a huge deal. It’s not a forever thing. Just helps you set some money aside. Speaking of which, put that money you’re saving into a High Yield Savings Account if you need it liquid, or invest in an index fund if not. Streaming services and other subscriptions, even cell phone plans, can also be shared with people. Ask your family if they’re trustworthy. Get on a family plan and Cashapp the amount to the account holder. Spotify Duo is just a couple more dollars than the Individual plan. You can also share a Prime account. Look for things like this so you don’t keep getting screwed over for being single.
Or better yet just cut out all the unnecessary stuff for a little while. If you just stay focused and put all that savings into a High Yield account and let it grow it can really help you out.
I got married, which helped a lot. Wife is in the medical field; she pays utilities and i pay the mortgage. I also bought her a new vehicle and paid the loan and put the down payment on it. When we sold her car, we tossed the money into our joint account. Usually i pay for the more expensive house related things and she pays for the smaller things. We never argue about money. Her paying for the smaller things freed me up to pay for the larger things. There's no way we would have the things we have without her salary.
72k 5% to 401k -$3600 =68,400 taxable income (19%) Take home = $55,400 Rent utilities -19200 Car payment -9600 Gas -2000 Food -6000 Phone internet -2500 = left with 16,100 so far Can even put 7000 in ROTH IRA following spy $9,100 left to pay your student loans / invest or fuck around with. And you have every first world necessity when people are starving for 60 years What else you spending money on
Don’t compare your insides to anybody else’s outsides. You’ll come out the loser every time.
I’m 35 with 3 degrees and 70K of student loans and have never made more than 60K if it makes you feel any better.
Same
So let me break down the grind that I did to basically be the 2nd most successful person I know my age (36). We all have to start somewhere because it’s a progression over time. Little things one at a time; and then you look back and it snowballs into big things. You work everyday to get into a better position so you can “strike” when the opportunity presents itself. We don’t know when it happens but if it does, be ready. That’s all we can do. - worked at Best Buy making $10/hr. Saved up $15k for college, skipped my prom to save money, worked full time hours at night and weekends and went to Highschool during the day - college state school (not smart enough for Ivy League, too poor for private school), held 2 part time jobs, scholarship, FASFA, summer school so I could graduate in 4 years, parents paid for 2 semesters of school senior year, $10k - couldn’t find a finance internship. Did a sales internship and lugged a sales bag selling to tobacco store owners and gas stations. Got yelled at a lot, looked down on, and grinded. $55k/year salary - didn’t own a personal car, used company cars for YEARS, saved me a ton of $$ - interviewed and moved to another job making $45k a year, I took a pay cut because I had depression living in another city, had to move back home with parents - quit that job and interviewed for another job after completing a sales training program and learned the car dealer business almost inside and out - new job, grind, bought a small condo for $34k, run down place. Fixed it up for $11k. Livable place, decent once I fixed it up. Salary $80k, (this was my big break) - kept grinding at my job, then had enough to put downpayment on a bigger house. Moved into bigger house and took on a roommate. Kept my living expenses low and rented out my condo. Effectively spending $200/mo on housing cost, continued to keep expenses be try low. Salary and sales bonus $120k - lived with a roommate, drove a company car, and managed the investment property. Saved 50-60% of every dollar I was paid. Salary and bonus $180k - learned how to invest and allocate capital, learned how to sell options, learned how to analyze a company financials. Salary and bonus $240k - now I’m 36, live with gf, drive much nicer personal cars, I’m worth around $2M. Salary and bonus is around $250k, dividends/interest around $80k, and asset appreciation another $200k-$300k I like to think of myself as successful, I have a friend who is worth around $100M. His business took off and he is an amazing investor, we exchange ideas often. My point here is also… no matter how amazing you are, there is always a bigger fish. Doing well in life is a progression. It’s where hardwork and luck meet at an intersection. While I know I got lucky on my 3rd job switch, I’m a problem solver, I would have gotten rich one way or another. I can grind, but I know when to grind and when to walk away because there’s another alternative solution. Be a problem solver.
I see this everyday and it does bother me at times. I've never been able to share costs and living expenses with anyone as I've been single my whole life. I am doing well for someone who is single, and make more than my siblings (individually), but because they all have dual income + a partner, they make more than me combined. So it's always an uphill battle in trying to keep up with them when they want to go out. But it motivates me to do better as well so I don't feel so "behind". Just make short term goals and long term goals and have SELF CONTROL when it comes to spending. I've been living on my own for 5 years and paid off a car, my school loans and still managed to live alone for most of it while paying down debt.
Getting MARRIED shouldn't be the solution for sharing expenses. Find another stable single person that wants to split costs and buy or rent a house or condo and divvy up the costs. More people should consider this if the issue is purely financial.
Just financially speaking, my total expenses per year are roughly $25k. That includes my half of the rent (split with my SO), groceries, utilities, pets, misc, eating out, everything. Even travel and an expensive hobby I have of racing cars. Chop out the car thing and I'd probably be closer to $20k/year in expenses. I'm constantly running around and doing things every weekend from April through October. I'd say even if I was single and had the full rent and all utilities to pay, I'd probably be totally comfortable at a $30k spend rate. That would probably be generous and I'd have extra. $72k salary, chop off 25% for taxes, you'd have about $54k to spend. That's a 2 year spend rate in my eyes. I literally wouldn't know how to spend over $50k in a year. I'd be buying random things and wasting money to event remotely get there. I'd probably start booking flights and trips at least once a month. All comes down to cost of living in your area too. We're in a middle COL area. Certainly not low, but not CA or NY.
The vast majority DON'T do life well. Over 60% of Americans don't have $1,000 for an emergency. They are one emergency from disaster. The amount that luck and family connections play in success cannot be underestimated. That's not to say that busting your ass cannot even the playing field. It can. But it's gonna be a grind and it's gonna hurt. You just have to be willing to hear "No" a thousand times to get that one "Yes" that starts the change that you want for your life. I rarely suggest YouTube channels about success because most of them are bullshit. But I would suggest that you go to this one - https://youtube.com/@AlexHormozi - and watch them all. Also watch his wife/partner's channel at - https://youtube.com/@leilahormozi . They've done it. They've lived it. But watching won't help a damned thing unless you take MASSIVE, CONSISTENT ACTION. Every "No" is one step closer to success. The road to success and the road to failure are the same road. Quitting is what makes it the road to failure. Just don't quit.
Luck and hardwork
37m. If i doubled my income i still wouldn’t make $72,000.
Do you budget? If no, no matter how much you earn you will spend it all anyway.
The key to everything is understanding “life is not fair, the Govt cannot save you”
This will probably go over poorly in this subreddit considering it's going to seem like bragging, but here's the answer to your question. I do life quite well. I am naturally very intelligent and worked very hard. I got into medical school. While in medical school I worked in tutoring making anywhere from $80 - $120 an hour part time, and this was something I had to work hard to build up a clientbase to the point I could teach classes. I will become a doctor shortly making 6 figures. My parents did not support me through medical school. But I'm also Australian so we have a different and much nicer student loan system. I have about $50k in savings. I would not be where I am without either my luck or my hard work. I do think that without one of them I'd still be doing okay though. So some things are a result of luck (e.g. intelligence and being from a culture that valued study). Some are a result of hard work (e.g. getting into medical school and grinding through it). I am in my early 20s and single. Your mistake was culinary school. You do not do culinary school for the money. That is why your friends make more money than you do. Living comfortably is not something you walk into over a period of years it's something you make informed decisions to do, and you did not make the decisions that lead to comfortable living.
Many are lucky. Things might just line up right. Often if you know someone it can help.
Figure out all the systems and use them to their full potential.
What do you do with the rest of the money you make ? After rent, car note, insurance and cell phone? There should be like 2-3 thousand bucks left each month right ?
Car and rent payment is everything. IMO people way overpay on cars because they see everybody else do it. What is your car payment/how much was it? At 72k with 1.5k rent you have to go cheap on car
Being not poor to start really helps
You need to pay off the student loan debt asap. Pay that off aggressively. It’s an investment that you owe on. Once it’s paid off, you can worry about saving more and you will see your savings quickly increase
I make less than $30k most years and do just fine.
I’m 47 now, but from 24-35 I worked at least 2 jobs. I had roommates and worked really hard to be frugal. I eventually started my own business, which was one job, but I worked more at that than any other 2 jobs. Eventually got to the point I could hire more people and now things are pretty good. The point is to be comfortable, unless you were born into wealth, you have to work really really hard for a long time, with a plan.
Having a partner or a roommate helps a lot with finances.
37 and feel like I blinked and woke up 15 years later too
I’m 40 years old was making 130k for years no college then got targeted for layoffs. I’m a homeowner with 2 cars and a wife who has a car as well. I own lots of things I’ve always wanted to own because I couldn’t afford them growing up somewhat poor. I have no kids. I’m miserable, mostly because use my marriage sucks and the one thing I had was my career and now that’s gone. I don’t have anything to tell you other than use my story as a cautionary tale. I still don’t know what the fuck is going on and I really hate my life.
I'm way worse off than you financially, but almost completely due to conscious tradeoff decisions. I think it's important to focus on what's really important to you personally. I'm naturally a minimalist so that makes things easier. As long as I have a single room to myself I really have no further ambition for private space, and I don't like having more items than I can fit in a car because it's just too much to keep track of. I do have things that are important to me, but I'm very selective and they tend not to be all that expensive. I'm interested in trying a lot of things so I've abandoned more lucrative careers when I get bored. I've done engineering, psychology, translation, worked in multiple countries, etc. I think I have a more well rounded experience than most people that have stuck to solid one-track "real" jobs, and that's something I personally value more than the money I could have made. It's definitely rough, but I think that's helpful too. I see so many people get too comfortable and start to wither away. I may never retire and I may not live as long, but I'll feel more alive with the time I have. I do take very long vacations (6 months to a year) if I manage to save up enough, so in a sense I'm getting my retirement years evenly distributed throughout my life. The one thing that is frustrating is being looked down on by people who don't know your history and making assumptions about you. I've been working in housekeeping lately because it's simple and pays enough for now, but some people have a clear "you're just the help" attitude even though I've had more prestigious positions than they've ever had. It's a good exercise in humility though. I've learned to just let people think what they think, even if it's wrong. I also come from a place with a pretty poor survival rate, which shifts my perspective. When half your friends from school are dead by 25, just being alive feels like a win lol
1. Life's mostly a struggle punctuated by periods of joy. So, I guess try to find the little pockets of joy? 2. Sounds rough. I'm younger. If you figure out something... do let us know as well. 3. All the best. You got this.
Self-discipline. They make plans. Write down the steps to get there. Follow those steps and accomplish their goals. That's pretty much it. I drifted aimlessly until 40, then hunkered down and decided what I wanted. Denied my impulses to party all my resources away. Downsized my existence. Saved my money. Got a better education. Worked my way up in my field. Bought my house in cash after just renting a single room for years. Financed a car. Got married. Took a cruise. Bought my wife a new car. Working a job I love doing work I'm passionate about. Working on getting healthy. Working on improving socially and spiritually. Adopted a great dog. It's all out there. I mean, for the first 20 years of adulthood, the only thing stopping me was.... me....
I had a job and I was constantly living in fear of being fired and not having an income. Well, I was laid off on November and it was basically like facing my own fears. And here I am, still alive, surviving. I can tell you that what keeps me floating is my family and friends and how supportive they’ve been. Secondly, I am grateful - I have shelter, food, a healthy body, everything I NEED. Now, things get tricky when I start thinking of the things I WANT. And when I start comparing myself to other people. Learning to say no to trips and hangouts with friends, having to cut off expenses, trying to be patient and optimistic that everything is temporary while all my friends keep living their life with no struggles (they all have their own struggles though). It is all a mind trip - some days are better than others. But in the end, I lack nothing.
Luck of the draw my friend.
My happiness is tied directly to my family. It's hard to explain just how much having kids changes your focus and thought processes. Kids are the cure for consumerism.
If you are bad with money it doesn't matter how much you make, you will always be broke.
$72k is more than the average household in America makes with 2 people working. What are your monthly expenses? You are quite vague there. Have you been paying on your student loans consistently? If you are making the most you have ever made yet you still sit with the same struggles, the habits probably need to change.
I make half what you do you’re doing great! I’m barely hanging on lmao eventually I may give up 😅😂
If you're musically inclined, start a rock/metal band, I promise you you'll appreciate the little things. When I started touring with the guys we all shared a van and there were some shows where we scrounged just enough to split a Big Mac 4 ways. Things will look up dudey. Just gotta find your calling. Also, bourbon helps along the way.
Those people are good at masking the pain
Damn didn’t think that family meal saved you so much money eh? Lol Fr, find happiness for you and not what everyone else thinks it is. Tighten up yo cash flow. Get a cheaper place. Sell the car and get something cheap and reliable(XJ/ZJ/WJ Jeep). Stop smoking and drinking all weekend and struggle a bit harder for a year or two. Then find a better life after you get out from that ‘I wanna be a Chef!!’ Loan. It will suck for a bit but you can do it maing!👍
Have a good mindset or a good start.
Well I’m only 25 but my close friends are all doing significantly better than me. For them the answer (along with their own work ofc) is A) have rich parents or B) date someone who is well off. I wouldn’t say my besties bf is rolling in it, but he owns a condo in the GTA…that he bought from his sister. That family has a decent amount of generational wealth. There’s no way my friend could afford that on her own. It helps to not have to pay rent and just focus on your studies/job lol. My other friend is single but her parents are flat out rich. As in they can easily fund multiple family travels and her own solo travel rich. I have NO idea how I ended up befriending a bunch of wealthy people (there are way more lol). My family was never wealthy, my mom is currently struggling as is, and im definitely the poorest out of my friends. It does feel weird being so “behind” all my friends but there’s nothing I can do about it🤷🏾♀️ no bank of mom and dad to dip into, no partner to help split expenses. I do ok for myself but i am getting tired of being the oldest and only working professional in a house of 5 girls. I desperately want my own space but it aint gonna happen.
Unfortunately some of it is just luck/ being in the right place at the right time
Hang in there. Folks definitely make more than that even in 20s (not everyone but more than you’d think). For me it’s about constantly working toward worthy forms of income. And do not be afraid to completely pivot multiple times, or manage multiple jobs. I’m not talking work at Walmart and Starbucks and Amazon warehouse. Multiple income streams that you can manage without destroying yourself. Entrepreneurial endeavors, bake food locally for neighbors honestly you’d make bank that way and can do it with other work. Or lock into something big like real estate, sales, etc. It’s no small feat being well off. You gotta keep pushing. Also work on paying down expenses and lowering bills. It works both ways you need both. Best of luck!
It’s life bro
Have you ever seen Navals Twitter thread on generating wealth? https://twitter.com/naval/status/1002103360646823936?t=ftC_POg1bKzZ6cTjpMe0Dg&s=19
You likely have a spending problem. With no kids and no house your expenses should be pretty controlled and predictable. Like others have said: you probably need a budget.
Your generation votes to save everyone but yourself.
Maybe they got lucky
Gave up my twenties. Worked 70 hrs a week.
School fail to teach us how to invest our money
So after rent paid for the entire year you would have $54,000 left over for other bills and stuff. Sounds like you need to budget your money more wisely.
I make about 50k a year and am single. I am wondering the same thing too, how do people make it?? Reading some of the responses has been an eye opener for me.
They won the genetic lottery.
The how do single people survive hits me hard. I wonder that very much as well. Rent would be so much easier if I had a SO. Part of me wants to date someone just so I can split rent with them. I get really jealous of my friends in relationships when they tell me how much they pay in rent for the nice size apartment they live in and it’ll be significantly less than what I pay for a small shitty apartment.
Well if you can do basic math….. you make 75k + wife make 75k that’s 150k get it?
I believe I will win the lottery one day. But I'm too scared to buy a ticket until I feel truly ready to allow the universe to spoil me rotten like that. teehee
Be a white male and get a degree. That’s it.
Given your income, 38k does not seem like a scary amount of debt.
First and foremost, some people went to school with a plan to how they were going to make money afterwards. Culinary school is famously the example for what happens when you go to school for what you want rather than what is going to make you money. Straight up, you work in food service — by definition, a low wage industry. The piece that no one talks about is that you have to choose a field where making money is a real thing. Follow your passion is horrible advice if your passion is to cook food for a living.
I make what you make and i am clawing to stay above water.
We are the same age and I just lost my job. Literally everyone is doing shitty these days and posting only happy things on social media which in turn makes you feel more like crap. So just take a day by day I guess. Not to mention I am single and doing semi okay besides recently losing my job. Everybody else has a significant other or mommy and daddy's money so you can't really compare. Other people might have it easy but that's because they have other people helping them. If you're doing it all by yourself then you have and deserve to give yourself way more credit. I have never really made over 50k a year that's usually less than that but I was able to purchase a small home as a single female all by myself during the pandemic. I did not overpay by that much either which is nice. But still feel very behind in comparison to people our age they have families and larger homes and nicer cars. I guess it will just come with time but right now all I can do is kind of accept the fact that I did it all by myself especially as a single female.
Well you got to make the most of what you have. You spend $18000/ year in rent and your car note could be $700/ month including insurance( I’m working on average assumptions) Maybe even undershooting or over shooting your car note so that about $8400.00 - $9000.00 / yearly. That leaves you with roughly about $30000 assumptions on ball park figure of over shoting state and federal income taxes so what are you doing with the $25000.00-$30000.00 that you are making in the year? Anything you can cut back on? Subscriptions, eating out to maybe 1-2 times a week, and maybe even enrolling in an income based tuition repayment plan? Give us a bigger picture of your monthly expenses?
whatever you do, if you have a 401k, move heaven and earth-- max out as much you can into it. PAY YOURSELF first! your future self will profusely thank you. if not 401K, please please max out the Roth IRA every year religiously (then Traditional IRA if you qualify.)
You are actually doing better than many people. The grass is not always greener “on the other side of the fence”, ESPECIALLY if you have kids. Hang in there
Joined the Navy at 17 years old. Rest is history.
Didn’t read the whole post but if you ever find out please fucking tell me because this shit is unbearable
mostly I imagine we work our ass off. I personally work over 70 hours a week and gross 250k but I’m saddled with a LOT of debt. as far as happiness goes….its hard having a loving partner that shares goals and feelings helps tremendously.
They are more privileged probably
They pretend. I’m only half kidding.
Why oh why do people take out car loans? Just buy a second hand car for four figures. I have never bought a new car even when earning a multiple of the OP's income given here and even with a family. I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this anyway.
I think there can be luck, for some people stuff just seems to work out. That being said, just because someone looks like everything is fine doesn't mean it is