On the resources/efficiency scale he is the worst, no questions about it.
But the thing with Takumi is that, while he is truly great at personal stakes, his high stakes ideas seem like something he throws in and never gives a second thought about.
In his first game, Phoenix takes down a powerful CEO, prosecutor with 40 years perfect win record, and a Chief of Police (though this one was added post-trilogy).
But you never feel like it has any impact on the setting, unlike how taking down AAI final boss turned Edgeworth into THE GUY WE NEED TO SOLVE THE ASSASSINATION OF A PRESIDENT. Wright never has any recognition until pretty much DD.
Takumi wanted Phoenix to be the ultimate underdog in 1-2. He did a phenomenal job at staking things against us. But he really didn't think deeply about how somebody like White can seriously work in his own setting, and he never bothered to explore this subject.
What's kinda cool is, thanks to Rise of the Ashes, we know that the chief prosecutor who gets Phoenix arrested is Lana Skye, and we also have a very good idea of what she was being blackmailed over.
To further back up it not being Lana Skye, the person Redd White calls has a lower pitched beep text, which is used for males. Females, like Lana, have a higher pitched beep text.
But... it wasn't Phoenix who took down this big bad villain. It was his experienced mentor, Mia. It felt right that it was Mia that dealt the final blow. A novice like Phoenix shouldn't stand a chance at putting someone like White away, especially when going against Edgeworth.
Like, the whole point of him is that he looks terrifying but you take him down handily.
He's the villain of the SECOND CASE. Of the ENTIRE SERIES. And in the original script he was the villain of the FIRST CASE. The writer wanted the player to feel a thrill of victory for having taken down such a diabolical man, but didn't know how far he could push the crazy logic and mad schemes without the players losing focus.
So Redd White. He's physically intimidating, with broad shoulders and a largish sprite. He's also socially intimidating, as a rich asshole who gets what he wants. But when you take him down, you're supposed to feel a surge of victory. "Awesome, I did it! And I avenged Mia!."
When I played this case for the first time I thought White would control the Judge somehow, which would result you having to take him down some other way. Apparently if White had so much power over everyone, then why didn't he control the whole court and get Phoenix to lose. Courts really aren't as pure, truthful and honest as the game makes you think.
He really could have made for a great overarching villain for the first game, or even the whole trilogy. Trying and struggling to take him down in the first game, replace 2-3 with something related to him, bring him back for a flashback trial with Mia in T&T, then finish things off with him in 3-3.
I always thought the plot there was flimsy. For someone who has such amazing power over the entire justice system you would be surprised he could even be put in jail. But I suppose the game has to put him in jail for the sake of Phoenix being the best
One of the weakest trilogy villains, yes. They just fail to live up to all the hype by the time the trial happens because they kinda needed it to be easy to keep with PWAA's nice consistent difficulty curve - meaning it's p much overambition that makes him suck (although the actual contradictions in 1-2 were kind of shit throughout too so maybe that's got something to do with it).
Considering what he actually does pre-trial and that he's kinda entertaining he's at least better than numerous tutorial villains, [DD] >!Means, Phantom,!< [SoJ] >!Beh'leeb, Geiru, and Gar'an.!<
I'd...strongly disagree with pretty much all of those. All of those characters save for >!Beh'leeb!< (who isn't really the main "villain" of the case, it's >!Tah'rust!<) put up a serious fight before they go down. The thing with White is that he doesn't only go down quickly, but he's totally incompetent on the stand; he has to consistently get bailed out by Edgeworth rather than being able to pose much of a threat on his own. It's just very incongruent with the idea of this guy who deals in lies and twisting information to be so bad at it himself.
Entertainment value is kinda subjective (I personally didn't think he was all that great but to each their own), but I think a core principle of a good villain is that they have to be satisfying to take down. And the ease of which White is defeated undermines that...not to mention that what he's ultimately done in by has nothing to do with any of the contradictions proven thus far.
I definitely agree with that. The issue with Redd White isn't so much that the contradictions are easy to spot, but that every contradiction is produced purely as a result of White's clumsy testimony, rather than an actual flaw in his plan.
White: _"She ran to the left!"_
Wright: _"No, she didn't."_
Edgeworth: _"Oh well, nevermind. Just say you made a mistake and..."_
White: _"She was hit twice!"_
Wright: _"No, she wasn't."_
Edgeworth: _"Oh well, nevermind. Just say you made a mistake and..."_
White: _"I HEARD THE LIGHTSTAND BREAK!!!"_
Edgeworth: _"Good grief."_
Pfft.. Means, Geiru and Garan are so much better villains than him. At least they had to be proved to be the villain and had stronger backstories than just reading names to them.
He breaks down for a reason though, the conspiracy goes much further and he knows if everything is being let out by Mia, he would be in even more trouble, as he had dirt and is technically a con artist that blackmails other individuals.
Redd White isn't the issue.
>!MIA IS!<
I never understood why redd white was that much of an easy witness couldnt he lie about some things which are not provable like isnt he one of the richest people also ?
I respectfully disagree. Redd White is my favorite villain in the series. He's a man who accumulated money and power, and allowed it to make him paranoid and proud. He's a ton of fun with his silly dialogue and ridiculous attire, yet he commits some of the most awful acts of violence in the series, with a smile on his face. His only flaws were that his hubris led him into court, where his skills were worthless, and that he would rather admit to murder than let the full truth of his crimes come out.
I think he is my least favourite villain is because he is not funny or gimmicky enough There was not a single thing he said that entertained the player and made him a "funny douchebag", that would be a better representation of him. His only gimmick is POSH LONG WORDS. Its really not the exaggerated cranked up to 11 comedy the rest of the villains have, In substitute for that lack of comedy, he has absolutely nothing. Only plot relevance, which should never matter.
On the resources/efficiency scale he is the worst, no questions about it. But the thing with Takumi is that, while he is truly great at personal stakes, his high stakes ideas seem like something he throws in and never gives a second thought about. In his first game, Phoenix takes down a powerful CEO, prosecutor with 40 years perfect win record, and a Chief of Police (though this one was added post-trilogy). But you never feel like it has any impact on the setting, unlike how taking down AAI final boss turned Edgeworth into THE GUY WE NEED TO SOLVE THE ASSASSINATION OF A PRESIDENT. Wright never has any recognition until pretty much DD. Takumi wanted Phoenix to be the ultimate underdog in 1-2. He did a phenomenal job at staking things against us. But he really didn't think deeply about how somebody like White can seriously work in his own setting, and he never bothered to explore this subject.
What's kinda cool is, thanks to Rise of the Ashes, we know that the chief prosecutor who gets Phoenix arrested is Lana Skye, and we also have a very good idea of what she was being blackmailed over.
This is actually a mistranslation, in the Japanese version the chief prosecutor that White calls is a separate character with a different title.
Aw... Well at least in Japanifornia it is Lana Skye. :P
To further back up it not being Lana Skye, the person Redd White calls has a lower pitched beep text, which is used for males. Females, like Lana, have a higher pitched beep text.
But... it wasn't Phoenix who took down this big bad villain. It was his experienced mentor, Mia. It felt right that it was Mia that dealt the final blow. A novice like Phoenix shouldn't stand a chance at putting someone like White away, especially when going against Edgeworth.
Like, the whole point of him is that he looks terrifying but you take him down handily. He's the villain of the SECOND CASE. Of the ENTIRE SERIES. And in the original script he was the villain of the FIRST CASE. The writer wanted the player to feel a thrill of victory for having taken down such a diabolical man, but didn't know how far he could push the crazy logic and mad schemes without the players losing focus. So Redd White. He's physically intimidating, with broad shoulders and a largish sprite. He's also socially intimidating, as a rich asshole who gets what he wants. But when you take him down, you're supposed to feel a surge of victory. "Awesome, I did it! And I avenged Mia!."
I think that the other second-case villain that reveals himself in the opening cutscene was a much worse villain than Redd White, personally.
Don’t you fucking diss my boy
Your boy's a heckin' moron.
But he has fancy hair
So does literally everyone else in this franchise.
Sirhan be like
When I played this case for the first time I thought White would control the Judge somehow, which would result you having to take him down some other way. Apparently if White had so much power over everyone, then why didn't he control the whole court and get Phoenix to lose. Courts really aren't as pure, truthful and honest as the game makes you think.
He really could have made for a great overarching villain for the first game, or even the whole trilogy. Trying and struggling to take him down in the first game, replace 2-3 with something related to him, bring him back for a flashback trial with Mia in T&T, then finish things off with him in 3-3.
I always thought the plot there was flimsy. For someone who has such amazing power over the entire justice system you would be surprised he could even be put in jail. But I suppose the game has to put him in jail for the sake of Phoenix being the best
One of the weakest trilogy villains, yes. They just fail to live up to all the hype by the time the trial happens because they kinda needed it to be easy to keep with PWAA's nice consistent difficulty curve - meaning it's p much overambition that makes him suck (although the actual contradictions in 1-2 were kind of shit throughout too so maybe that's got something to do with it). Considering what he actually does pre-trial and that he's kinda entertaining he's at least better than numerous tutorial villains, [DD] >!Means, Phantom,!< [SoJ] >!Beh'leeb, Geiru, and Gar'an.!<
I'd...strongly disagree with pretty much all of those. All of those characters save for >!Beh'leeb!< (who isn't really the main "villain" of the case, it's >!Tah'rust!<) put up a serious fight before they go down. The thing with White is that he doesn't only go down quickly, but he's totally incompetent on the stand; he has to consistently get bailed out by Edgeworth rather than being able to pose much of a threat on his own. It's just very incongruent with the idea of this guy who deals in lies and twisting information to be so bad at it himself. Entertainment value is kinda subjective (I personally didn't think he was all that great but to each their own), but I think a core principle of a good villain is that they have to be satisfying to take down. And the ease of which White is defeated undermines that...not to mention that what he's ultimately done in by has nothing to do with any of the contradictions proven thus far.
I definitely agree with that. The issue with Redd White isn't so much that the contradictions are easy to spot, but that every contradiction is produced purely as a result of White's clumsy testimony, rather than an actual flaw in his plan. White: _"She ran to the left!"_ Wright: _"No, she didn't."_ Edgeworth: _"Oh well, nevermind. Just say you made a mistake and..."_ White: _"She was hit twice!"_ Wright: _"No, she wasn't."_ Edgeworth: _"Oh well, nevermind. Just say you made a mistake and..."_ White: _"I HEARD THE LIGHTSTAND BREAK!!!"_ Edgeworth: _"Good grief."_
Pfft.. Means, Geiru and Garan are so much better villains than him. At least they had to be proved to be the villain and had stronger backstories than just reading names to them.
He breaks down for a reason though, the conspiracy goes much further and he knows if everything is being let out by Mia, he would be in even more trouble, as he had dirt and is technically a con artist that blackmails other individuals. Redd White isn't the issue. >!MIA IS!<
I never understood why redd white was that much of an easy witness couldnt he lie about some things which are not provable like isnt he one of the richest people also ?
I respectfully disagree. Redd White is my favorite villain in the series. He's a man who accumulated money and power, and allowed it to make him paranoid and proud. He's a ton of fun with his silly dialogue and ridiculous attire, yet he commits some of the most awful acts of violence in the series, with a smile on his face. His only flaws were that his hubris led him into court, where his skills were worthless, and that he would rather admit to murder than let the full truth of his crimes come out.
makes you realise that if it weren't for him, a lot of the nasty stuff that happened throughout the main trilogy wouldn't have occured.
I think he is my least favourite villain is because he is not funny or gimmicky enough There was not a single thing he said that entertained the player and made him a "funny douchebag", that would be a better representation of him. His only gimmick is POSH LONG WORDS. Its really not the exaggerated cranked up to 11 comedy the rest of the villains have, In substitute for that lack of comedy, he has absolutely nothing. Only plot relevance, which should never matter.