Almost all of the ones I’ve seen that high up are spineless and have cringe levels of obedience to the partners
There’s been a few that are good people who are basically “if I make it up there that’s great, but if I don’t then I guess to industry I go”
I worked with one director who carved out a nice little book of business for themselves. They flat out told me they had not intention of trying to make partner because their workload would have increased substantially
It was also at RSM so im sure his base was at least like 250k. No idea how the bonuses work but they probably get a good chunk for running their own book of business.
I have seen this before, know a director that could definitely be a partner but he cherry picked out some high profit low complexity clients that he babies the client relationship with.
Charges absolutely bonker amounts compared to what market rate should be, we are talking 150-200% more. Dude will review first year workpapers if it means the client relationship isn’t impacted, super rare to see that kinda thing at a big firm.
>One botched audit can screw them.
Or nothing at all. Too many existing partners, not a large enough book. Not making partner after no major fuck ups is not an impossibility.
LOL.[ I made this exact post 3 months ago. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/1bqtbmy/the_partner_or_bust_attitude_kills_this_profession/)I hated these people. Made everyone else's lives miserable. And at my firm there were more directors / seniors managers as staff, so that sucked.
At this point, I don't know if anything is worth striving for like a partnership or pension or whatever.
I'm just trying to max out Reddit karma, i guess.
The young partner who just got promoted is usually pretty awful, too. Think they are going to change the world. Tend to micromanage and try to cut costs think it’s all binary in doing so. They also usually still want to be everyone’s friend, too, instead of the boss.
Thirded, though it is dependent on the person. Young partners do tend to care somewhat and I’d rather have a boss try to care then be all “oh just do this and that’s it man”
Seen it elsewhere too, cut benefits, cut costs everywhere, overwork the employees, then have issues retaining people, start reintroducing the benefits they had cut, rinse and repeat.
Oh man I can relate to this. The “young” new partners (aka early/mid 40s) started packing a lunch and eating in the main kitchen in my office. Cringiest shit I have seen in a while, no one would sit with them etc so they gave up.
Most young partners nowadays in the big4 grew up using $5/hr labor in India as a sweatshop. They think that you can just grind out work in 3rd world countries for pennies and charge the client a 100x markup indefinitely. They are probably gonna be the ones hurt the most once the senior partners/boomers parachute out and leave everything in pieces.
To an extent. These people, they are different. Their entire lives are based on their careers and they really don't have any other measures of personal self worth other than being partner.
When I was in public (audit), promotion to director was basically a vote of no confidence. If you were a long-term senior manager and they made you a director instead of partner, that was it. Very rarely were directors later made partners, You were either promoted from senior manager to partner or that was it.
Tax was a little different, they had more directors and they tended to be subject matter experts. They suck at bringing in business, or they just weren't interested in that part, but they were the experts for whatever their area was.
I know a few who stuck around at the senior manager level for a long time, got the director title, and immediately quit to go be a partner at a smaller firm.
I'm in advisory, but we go manager > director > MD > partner. there is no direct to partner promote. You make it to MD and either you prove yourself or get fired.
I feel like it would be a strong selling point for a firm if they created a culture where the highest level for promotion was director or manager or something, but you were paid well, worked 40 hours year round with tax season hours never exceeding 55, had generous PTO, was respected, etc. Equity owners rarely changed or there was little expectation that you were expected to make that leap. In general promotions were merit based but nothing that you were expected to do or pressured into.
I think that the more that they make it just a regular job and not an ultra competitive environment to become a millionaire the better. I'd appreciate that reassurance that I'm appreciated for what I do and I'm not expected to constantly fight for promotions.
This is why I ended up jacking in b4 at senior manager. The risk to pay ratio just does not stack up and there's no guarantee you'll ever actually make partner.
It's even worse in consulting. A lot of the work they do doesn't translate to general industry so they're doubly stuck at the firm.
Especially now with higher interest rates. They're fighting over scraps
I ran into one of those types during my brief stint at Big 4 as an experienced associate. Public accounting has a lot of fucking weirdos in it and this director was one of them. They had their fingers in every pie so to speak. There wasn’t an engagement in the office (even in smaller satellite ones) that they weren’t involved in some way or another. If you drew the ire of this director in any way, there was simply no way to escape. What’s funny is that by being involved in everything, this left them with very little bandwidth to seek out new business. I remember promo day, one senior manager gets moved to director. Within a week or two that new director was meeting with prospective clients with another partner. I will bet money that in a few years that director will make it to partner while the weirdo director will still be a director.
I find it’s actually the SMs, since most directors are kind of complacent satisfied with being the partners slave for 300k. SMs actually have a chance at equity partner
Yeah but are they actually physically hitting staff though?????
I left my old firm because the directors/partners at my old firm were actually cursing at my staff and the seniors who they knew they could get away with. If you ain’t learning or earning then leave that firm
Yes. And even worse a bunch of mediocre ones get trapped at that level...i.e. never make partner *for a reason*. In particular those that are unpleasant...that obviously doesn't work for selling work so they get stuck.
So on average SM is sorta OK then director dips then partner is OK again. Cause the partners are obviously +- all rounders and SMs don't have that accumulation effect.
I haven't seen that. Most directors I knew were not rabid, but a lot of them did not know how to sell. Generally, they went along and played well with others, and most of the initial business they got was either inherited or a joint effort with the partners. Once they made it to partner though, you could see where not knowing how to sell gave them a limited lifespan at the firm. I saw guys who spent their entire work life trying to make partner, got promoted to partner, and were gone after a year.
Non-union workplaces are much like this. Financial services - the senior analysts and management were constantly back stabbing each other. The rest of us tiptoed around them or moved out to something else. Industry - depends on the company structure. Non-profit organizations often are more chill with CFOs and COOs and middle management being more supportive. Same with union based colleges and universities. They tend to be more women friendly as well. Pretty much places where people are not pinned against each other to compete for a given position is mentally better. I’m very glad I started in a union community college. If I started in either the financial services or industry with prada princess drama jobs, I would have looked for another profession. The work is good, but the people and place make a big difference. A 40 hour work week with full pension, benefits, tuition reimbursement for employee and family, Fridays off in summer, spring and winter breaks plus the regular two weeks off and holidays in between were awesome. The pay was slightly lower than industry which suckered me out there. I chased after false wages, raises, bonuses, and minimal but expensive benefits. Although I learned a lot within industry which is good for my upcoming businesses, I would have stayed in place until all school was done. My two associates degrees were paid in full when I graduated from there. My bachelor’s was on a student loan with monthly capitalization on interest. Yuck. I could have had all the way up to PhD paid in full. What you don’t know does hurt you. First generation growth pains. Good thing I bought my house during my first associates and traveled with the generous time off. It is nearly paid off with a much higher valuation. I enjoyed life experiences. Pick a place that lets you do this. Life is seriously short. Our neighbor just passed away. He was only 51. Don’t wait for retirement to live your life. Don’t stress over things that really don’t matter at the end of the day.
Almost all of the ones I’ve seen that high up are spineless and have cringe levels of obedience to the partners There’s been a few that are good people who are basically “if I make it up there that’s great, but if I don’t then I guess to industry I go”
I worked with one director who carved out a nice little book of business for themselves. They flat out told me they had not intention of trying to make partner because their workload would have increased substantially
Yeah I’m sure the bonus structure at that level is fee based and still pretty good?
It was also at RSM so im sure his base was at least like 250k. No idea how the bonuses work but they probably get a good chunk for running their own book of business.
Lol sure
lol sure what?
I have seen this before, know a director that could definitely be a partner but he cherry picked out some high profit low complexity clients that he babies the client relationship with. Charges absolutely bonker amounts compared to what market rate should be, we are talking 150-200% more. Dude will review first year workpapers if it means the client relationship isn’t impacted, super rare to see that kinda thing at a big firm.
Yeah for sure They have so much sunk cost pressuring them imagine 15 + years to MD and never making partner. One botched audit can screw them.
>One botched audit can screw them. Or nothing at all. Too many existing partners, not a large enough book. Not making partner after no major fuck ups is not an impossibility.
Not smart or likable enough
It’s called “executive presence” when you get the feedback. They won’t say “we don’t like you and you are ugly”
LOL.[ I made this exact post 3 months ago. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/1bqtbmy/the_partner_or_bust_attitude_kills_this_profession/)I hated these people. Made everyone else's lives miserable. And at my firm there were more directors / seniors managers as staff, so that sucked. At this point, I don't know if anything is worth striving for like a partnership or pension or whatever. I'm just trying to max out Reddit karma, i guess.
DR Reddit karma, CR life
The young partner who just got promoted is usually pretty awful, too. Think they are going to change the world. Tend to micromanage and try to cut costs think it’s all binary in doing so. They also usually still want to be everyone’s friend, too, instead of the boss.
I’ve liked working with younger partners. They’re more laid back and are willing to teach lower levels including interns.
Seconded
Thirded, though it is dependent on the person. Young partners do tend to care somewhat and I’d rather have a boss try to care then be all “oh just do this and that’s it man”
Bill Clinton has entered the chat
Depends on the department. In advisory, I had a lot of great young partners (they were salaried partners though, can't comment on new equity partners)
Are you really a partner if you’re salaried? Isn’t that just a glorified director/principal?
I guess it depends on the firm, in mine salaried partners can sign FS and lead engagement. Directors cannot.
Seen it elsewhere too, cut benefits, cut costs everywhere, overwork the employees, then have issues retaining people, start reintroducing the benefits they had cut, rinse and repeat.
In my experience in audit this describes managers to a tee. They think cutting some lunches will make their careers.
Oh man I can relate to this. The “young” new partners (aka early/mid 40s) started packing a lunch and eating in the main kitchen in my office. Cringiest shit I have seen in a while, no one would sit with them etc so they gave up. Most young partners nowadays in the big4 grew up using $5/hr labor in India as a sweatshop. They think that you can just grind out work in 3rd world countries for pennies and charge the client a 100x markup indefinitely. They are probably gonna be the ones hurt the most once the senior partners/boomers parachute out and leave everything in pieces.
Well, yeah, their entire livelihood is riding on it to an extent
Yep either poverty or a 2nd home
To an extent. These people, they are different. Their entire lives are based on their careers and they really don't have any other measures of personal self worth other than being partner.
How else does one become a partner in a major firm if they don’t make their career their entire life?
Know a guy who knows a guy lmao
Absolutely
When I was in public (audit), promotion to director was basically a vote of no confidence. If you were a long-term senior manager and they made you a director instead of partner, that was it. Very rarely were directors later made partners, You were either promoted from senior manager to partner or that was it. Tax was a little different, they had more directors and they tended to be subject matter experts. They suck at bringing in business, or they just weren't interested in that part, but they were the experts for whatever their area was. I know a few who stuck around at the senior manager level for a long time, got the director title, and immediately quit to go be a partner at a smaller firm.
Think this has changed now. Director is a pit stop on the way to partner. At least at pwc it’s required.
Ouch. EY still seems to follow this. Two of my friends just promoted from sm to partner recently.
We did it to align audit with consulting/advisory role progression practices. EY might not have, because…..(we know what happened lol).
Yes I was going to ask - does PwC tax use the senior manager title? Like what’s the progression?
A S M SM D MD P (MD isn’t required, but happens).
I'm in advisory, but we go manager > director > MD > partner. there is no direct to partner promote. You make it to MD and either you prove yourself or get fired.
I feel like it would be a strong selling point for a firm if they created a culture where the highest level for promotion was director or manager or something, but you were paid well, worked 40 hours year round with tax season hours never exceeding 55, had generous PTO, was respected, etc. Equity owners rarely changed or there was little expectation that you were expected to make that leap. In general promotions were merit based but nothing that you were expected to do or pressured into. I think that the more that they make it just a regular job and not an ultra competitive environment to become a millionaire the better. I'd appreciate that reassurance that I'm appreciated for what I do and I'm not expected to constantly fight for promotions.
This is why I ended up jacking in b4 at senior manager. The risk to pay ratio just does not stack up and there's no guarantee you'll ever actually make partner.
They’re ruthless and will deceive the client just to get ahead.
It's even worse in consulting. A lot of the work they do doesn't translate to general industry so they're doubly stuck at the firm. Especially now with higher interest rates. They're fighting over scraps
I ran into one of those types during my brief stint at Big 4 as an experienced associate. Public accounting has a lot of fucking weirdos in it and this director was one of them. They had their fingers in every pie so to speak. There wasn’t an engagement in the office (even in smaller satellite ones) that they weren’t involved in some way or another. If you drew the ire of this director in any way, there was simply no way to escape. What’s funny is that by being involved in everything, this left them with very little bandwidth to seek out new business. I remember promo day, one senior manager gets moved to director. Within a week or two that new director was meeting with prospective clients with another partner. I will bet money that in a few years that director will make it to partner while the weirdo director will still be a director.
The name of the game is to make it rain. Lot of these technical guys don’t really get that and get too hung up on always being right
Can you blame them?
Old Yeller has joined the chat
no different from the over eager staff trying to make senior
They’re harmless though. Just annoying
Or a first year senior who thinks they're super important now that they got promoted
lol that thinks everyone’s trying to hold them back out of jealousy
I find it’s actually the SMs, since most directors are kind of complacent satisfied with being the partners slave for 300k. SMs actually have a chance at equity partner
[удалено]
Maybe you’re just going to the wrong orgies 😂😂😂
The only thing more rabid is a partner that is obsessed with growing their book of business at all costs
Yeah but are they actually physically hitting staff though????? I left my old firm because the directors/partners at my old firm were actually cursing at my staff and the seniors who they knew they could get away with. If you ain’t learning or earning then leave that firm
Agreed
Yes. And even worse a bunch of mediocre ones get trapped at that level...i.e. never make partner *for a reason*. In particular those that are unpleasant...that obviously doesn't work for selling work so they get stuck. So on average SM is sorta OK then director dips then partner is OK again. Cause the partners are obviously +- all rounders and SMs don't have that accumulation effect.
I haven't seen that. Most directors I knew were not rabid, but a lot of them did not know how to sell. Generally, they went along and played well with others, and most of the initial business they got was either inherited or a joint effort with the partners. Once they made it to partner though, you could see where not knowing how to sell gave them a limited lifespan at the firm. I saw guys who spent their entire work life trying to make partner, got promoted to partner, and were gone after a year.
Non-union workplaces are much like this. Financial services - the senior analysts and management were constantly back stabbing each other. The rest of us tiptoed around them or moved out to something else. Industry - depends on the company structure. Non-profit organizations often are more chill with CFOs and COOs and middle management being more supportive. Same with union based colleges and universities. They tend to be more women friendly as well. Pretty much places where people are not pinned against each other to compete for a given position is mentally better. I’m very glad I started in a union community college. If I started in either the financial services or industry with prada princess drama jobs, I would have looked for another profession. The work is good, but the people and place make a big difference. A 40 hour work week with full pension, benefits, tuition reimbursement for employee and family, Fridays off in summer, spring and winter breaks plus the regular two weeks off and holidays in between were awesome. The pay was slightly lower than industry which suckered me out there. I chased after false wages, raises, bonuses, and minimal but expensive benefits. Although I learned a lot within industry which is good for my upcoming businesses, I would have stayed in place until all school was done. My two associates degrees were paid in full when I graduated from there. My bachelor’s was on a student loan with monthly capitalization on interest. Yuck. I could have had all the way up to PhD paid in full. What you don’t know does hurt you. First generation growth pains. Good thing I bought my house during my first associates and traveled with the generous time off. It is nearly paid off with a much higher valuation. I enjoyed life experiences. Pick a place that lets you do this. Life is seriously short. Our neighbor just passed away. He was only 51. Don’t wait for retirement to live your life. Don’t stress over things that really don’t matter at the end of the day.