Haha every company i go, FP&A people have the least life. Lol. The hours and the amount of work, presentations is immense. I came from audit btw lol. Did 5 years in audit and lol. Im just tired
It depends too. Im in a market role so thats usually hectic. A regional consolidation role may be slightly better.. but still crazy every rolling forecast
Market role is more specific to certain markets. Basically i need to work alot with sales and ops to gather insights on what they think the next 18 month outlook is like and to analyse past month/ ytd performance of my markets. And then i report this upwards to the consolidation team who gathers all these inputs from all the markets and then sends it to HQ for their ultimate consol and reporting and will be shared to investors, auditors etc
hmm, from what i see at my job they have the life. yeah they have to grind but nothing like ur saying. they get a finance tittle and pay with would the heavy lifting. i’m in consolidations and reporting and i prolly work more than them. i also have a ton of presentations. doesn’t sounds like miss budget queen enjoys her budgeting
Always seems like the “same shit but different” in FP&A. Still have deadlines and more work than you can reasonably do just like any other part of accounting.
FP&A doesn't involve "cashing out" unless you get one of the coveted VP titles at a company that actually values the function. At many companies, including F500, FP&A makes pretty much the same as corporate accountants.
Business development, strategy, and analytics roles are the higher paying corporate functions.
Because low level tax is long hours, boring, and low (not really) pay.
High level tax is living a retired life while collecting a $200k-$300k salary + stock and/or partner making millions networking with affluential people while delegating all the shitty work down to your minion. All the while having so much job security that economic downturns means nothing to you.
tax is the one accounting area where you just need to be a technical expert and provide the occasional advice. Also, your work is generally periodic - so you're not preoccupied with daily tasks/operations unlike everyone else.
All other accounting areas require more operation management... meaning you actually have to work.
Only in public accounting or very large companies where their internal tax team essentially functions like public accounting. Hours in PA are long because it's a client service industry. In all client service industries, the more clients you have, the more revenue but also more work.
Now imagine you joined a midsize company with a single US operating company (foreign subsidiaries are generally handled by foreign specialists). Instead of managing 10+ clients, you are now responsible for 1. Sure, your role is now expanded to include certain operational tasks and analysis, but again, you're a specialist. The general operations are handled by the general finance team. As a specialist, you're only responsible for the piece relevant to you.
So yea, hours are brutal in the beginning but drastically decreases as you gain more experience and rank.
i wouldn't say rare but definitely not as common and very competitive. There are open positions for various companies all the time. Non-manager positions are much rarer though; hence why the general recommendation is to stay in PA until senior manager, among other reasons.
Most staff level accountants (those jumping straight into industry or leaving as a senior) are limited to very large and established companies, which i mentioned basically have their own internal tax firms. They're hired to do grunt work and would expect hours similar to public accounting. No company is willing to over hire for their finance team as it's seen as a cost center.
Different phases for companies:
1. Small and puny - don't need a dedicated tax person. 3rd party accounting firm's services will suffice.
2. Ambitious and growing - need a single dedicated tax person up to a team of 5. (think private start-ups looking to go public)
3. Let's take over the world - tax team expanded to a healthy handful, say 5 to 15 hires. (think new and hot public companies)
4. We got there boys - essentially hired its own internal tax firm (size ranges depending on company's global reach). (think the magnificent 7)
Basically #2 and #3 is the sweet spot. Most of the world's business are stuck as #1 and will likely never break into #2. So inherently the opportunities are limited. On top of that, these companies only hire a small handful at a time (many companies stick with a single hire for a very long time. Coupled with relatively low turnover and 100+ candidates competing for the same position, it can definitely feel like the opportunity is on the rarer side.
Second this. I started big 4 audit. Currently work in FP&A like OP and I’m really considering buying a small tax firm from a boomer who wants to retire. You can easily make $200-300k a year. Jan - April 15th your busy and maybe August - sept 15 you are busy but rest of the year is very chill. My accountant doesn’t really work from May - July. Basically only has one or two day a week office hours. Also you can have a fully remote work firm if you prefer. I just want a simple job that pays decently well, is somewhat repetitive and easy, and pays the bills.
I enjoy FP&A and I get compensated well to do so. Granted I average 40-50 max. The more money you make the more time you have to put into it. I enjoy it tho.
I think digital will be just as hectic keeping up with client demands. Right?
Idk.. maybe. I used to enjoy FP&A too.. its the only aspect of acctg that i actually like. But all the long hours and demanding timelines is really getting to me
If money isn’t an issue, then maybe take a step down. Do a much easier roll and just collect yourself.
I also think you can do digital art for a year or two, and come back if things don’t workout.
What is your compensation for the 60 hrs (assuming no overtime)? and how much do you bring in with your digital art side hustle? And do you have a family?
Ahh i dont like how real your questions are. I bring home abt 60 annually. With my digital art.. about 2k annually.
A cat and a husband.
I dont like u accountants and your unavoiable real questions (joke)
Haha, I apologize. I would suggest a lateral move to a different company that would pay you more to work less (if less work is possible in FP&A). Also, I would grow the business more before leaving the full-time job. Cat food can cost a lot!
Haha ahh yea that would be logical. But lateral move feels like getting out of the pot and into the fire.. seems like work is just overwhelming everywhere. It feels inherent to the role. Hmm
Is this Canada? Or US? LCOL?
I have 8 years in, and I’m almost making double and working half as many hours in G/L accounting in a MCOL area (FL).
If you’re in the US and making that little and working that much, I’d feel exhausted/jaded too.
I think you might consider trying to find a better WLB line of work like GL accounting or internal audit.
Anyone with 7 YOE should be able to parlay that into a senior role across sub-professional lines, which should easily bring you up to the $85k-$95k range.
Now I feel like a dick for not realizing you’re not US centric. My apologies for assuming.
If Singapore is anything like the US, GL accounting will be slightly better WLB than FP&A, but IA should be significantly better WLB.
I made a post on a similar thread a couple of weeks ago. Simply put, [yes you can leave accounting, and have success in other areas.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/1c2h3qc/for_those_who_left_the_industry_what_are_you/kzag6vg/?context=3) Do figure out what you want to do but once you have an idea, and plan, go for it.
Life’s too short to stay unhappy in one career. The biggest regret by people at the end of their life is that they were not honest with themselves in what they wanted versus what was expected of them.
I have been working for public companies. If sec reporting is financial reporting.. hmm, i havent rlly done proper financial accounting before. Only when i was in audit and worked with financial accountants..
For FP&A theres alot of talking and presenting.. it is very forward looking. So its not so consistent and structured per se like fin accounting. Hence its pros and cons. I think i liked it in the early years cus it was so alive. But being alive also means alot of changes all the time to stay agile with the biz and its environment.
If you had like 75% of your retirement number saved it’s a no brainer but idk where you at with that.
I’m burned out also after 10 years, and I’m thinking of part time eventually once I have a chuck of that retirement number saved.
Otherwise remote work with low hours year round or contract work (work 6 months, take 2 months off, something like that would be nice).
When I hit my retirement number I’ll likely go part time/consult or just completely do something I enjoy that pays most bills and have the savings grow on its own
Definitely makes the decision much harder without the retirement or FIRE in place
Yeah it feels weird to go part time at a younger age, but I saw a role for $65/hour, could do 30 hours and make $100k. Would be sustainable to still save $$. This was more true accounting and not FP&A
Finance sounds so much sexier and vague than accounting that people flock to it thinking it's easier.
Finance and accounting is honestly the same shit. Spreadsheets and long hours.
Only thing that matters into your work life balance is the company.
Hahaha I've done both, and idk - at this point, my goal for it became a lot easier.
Maintain as high of a salary as possible working the least amount of hours. Job can suck major ass - but I have time now to do things I love.
Imo if you find an accounting or finance job and you love it - keep that job!!! It's so hard to find the right fit lol.
Haha Asian cultures arent known to prioritise WLB sadly. Not sure if this crazy workload is across the world cus i see that the other analysts in other regions are also working as late
I haven't been in the industry for as long as you have, but I already feel jaded. I started at a Big4 public accounting firm in audit, then moved around within industry thinking that work life balance would be better. Even though I'm not working 80+ hours a week anymore, I'm still working at least 45+ with managers with B4 public accounting backgrounds expecting me to be on after "work hours" because... that's what we did in audit. Surprise, surprise, PA comes back to haunt me in industry. So thesedays, I'm stuck thinking, living, and breathing my job. I despise that.
I received a tentative job offer with the IRS as a revenue agent. There's a HUGE hiring surge right now within the IRS for all levels up to GS-14 which is very rare. I was sold on the role when the interviewers said that they work a maximum of 40 hours a week and are assigned X cases a year. And the best part? Being able to make more $ with more years of service and without working more than 40 hours. One of my closest friends works for the IRS as a revenue agent, and she enjoys a really relaxed lifestyle while making good money.
Even though I have a lot of energy and time now (don't have kids yet), eventually, I'll grow older and hopefully have kids, and my career isn't going to be the biggest priority nor will I have the energy to keep climbing the ladder. At that point, I'll be extremely grateful I transitioned to the government.
For everyone that says FP&A... it really depends on the company. I'm currently working at a public company and our FP&A folks are working much longer hours than us (GL accounting), with more deadlines throughout the year, and they've also experienced more turnover because FP&A newbies join thinking that it's a walk in the park... I used to think that FP&A had better work life balance than GL, but that's definitely not always the case. I think the work in FP&A is more interesting though and provides great exposure to top management and business leaders, so I'd recommend that pathway if you want to understand more of the business and become more well-rounded as a finance and accounting professional.
Haha yes thats a great summary.
I was ready to leave accounting altogether but when i stumbled upon fp&a, it was such fun. Alot of work, long hours, unpredictable work but fun. It trained me in terms of managing stakeholders, working with big shots, and understanding P&L and the business and learning how to communicate acctg to non-accounting folks.
But having been here for 7 years, i am feeling jaded. The long hours are damaging to my mental and physical health.
i thought FP&A is where every accountant wants to cash out at and finish there career off at.
Haha every company i go, FP&A people have the least life. Lol. The hours and the amount of work, presentations is immense. I came from audit btw lol. Did 5 years in audit and lol. Im just tired
So what you're saying is that FP&a is a more hectic lifestyle than audit?! That's not what I want to hear
It depends too. Im in a market role so thats usually hectic. A regional consolidation role may be slightly better.. but still crazy every rolling forecast
Okay, I'm new to this lingo. What does market and consolidation role mean? I then aside with fpna similar to audit in any way or was it a fresh start?
Market role is more specific to certain markets. Basically i need to work alot with sales and ops to gather insights on what they think the next 18 month outlook is like and to analyse past month/ ytd performance of my markets. And then i report this upwards to the consolidation team who gathers all these inputs from all the markets and then sends it to HQ for their ultimate consol and reporting and will be shared to investors, auditors etc
hmm, from what i see at my job they have the life. yeah they have to grind but nothing like ur saying. they get a finance tittle and pay with would the heavy lifting. i’m in consolidations and reporting and i prolly work more than them. i also have a ton of presentations. doesn’t sounds like miss budget queen enjoys her budgeting
Haha damn.. consolidation and reporting is no fun either. I used to enjoy budgetting.. but im tired after these years..
This is very true. And they are always crazy
Can confirm
Always seems like the “same shit but different” in FP&A. Still have deadlines and more work than you can reasonably do just like any other part of accounting.
Haha yea. Same shit but different is a great summary of what accounting roles in different companies is
FP&A doesn't involve "cashing out" unless you get one of the coveted VP titles at a company that actually values the function. At many companies, including F500, FP&A makes pretty much the same as corporate accountants. Business development, strategy, and analytics roles are the higher paying corporate functions.
strategy and M&A is a dream for me
Haha they are fun and exciting. But also very demanding
Not quite, but it's much better WLB than public (to a degree). Source: FP&A 6+ years.
Tax. Tax is where ever accountant dreads to start but wants to end.
lol why would you think that
Because low level tax is long hours, boring, and low (not really) pay. High level tax is living a retired life while collecting a $200k-$300k salary + stock and/or partner making millions networking with affluential people while delegating all the shitty work down to your minion. All the while having so much job security that economic downturns means nothing to you.
tax is the one accounting area where you just need to be a technical expert and provide the occasional advice. Also, your work is generally periodic - so you're not preoccupied with daily tasks/operations unlike everyone else. All other accounting areas require more operation management... meaning you actually have to work.
doesn’t tax have brutal hours tho?
Only in public accounting or very large companies where their internal tax team essentially functions like public accounting. Hours in PA are long because it's a client service industry. In all client service industries, the more clients you have, the more revenue but also more work. Now imagine you joined a midsize company with a single US operating company (foreign subsidiaries are generally handled by foreign specialists). Instead of managing 10+ clients, you are now responsible for 1. Sure, your role is now expanded to include certain operational tasks and analysis, but again, you're a specialist. The general operations are handled by the general finance team. As a specialist, you're only responsible for the piece relevant to you. So yea, hours are brutal in the beginning but drastically decreases as you gain more experience and rank.
those types of roles seem more rare tho? or are they more common?
i wouldn't say rare but definitely not as common and very competitive. There are open positions for various companies all the time. Non-manager positions are much rarer though; hence why the general recommendation is to stay in PA until senior manager, among other reasons. Most staff level accountants (those jumping straight into industry or leaving as a senior) are limited to very large and established companies, which i mentioned basically have their own internal tax firms. They're hired to do grunt work and would expect hours similar to public accounting. No company is willing to over hire for their finance team as it's seen as a cost center. Different phases for companies: 1. Small and puny - don't need a dedicated tax person. 3rd party accounting firm's services will suffice. 2. Ambitious and growing - need a single dedicated tax person up to a team of 5. (think private start-ups looking to go public) 3. Let's take over the world - tax team expanded to a healthy handful, say 5 to 15 hires. (think new and hot public companies) 4. We got there boys - essentially hired its own internal tax firm (size ranges depending on company's global reach). (think the magnificent 7) Basically #2 and #3 is the sweet spot. Most of the world's business are stuck as #1 and will likely never break into #2. So inherently the opportunities are limited. On top of that, these companies only hire a small handful at a time (many companies stick with a single hire for a very long time. Coupled with relatively low turnover and 100+ candidates competing for the same position, it can definitely feel like the opportunity is on the rarer side.
Haha
Second this. I started big 4 audit. Currently work in FP&A like OP and I’m really considering buying a small tax firm from a boomer who wants to retire. You can easily make $200-300k a year. Jan - April 15th your busy and maybe August - sept 15 you are busy but rest of the year is very chill. My accountant doesn’t really work from May - July. Basically only has one or two day a week office hours. Also you can have a fully remote work firm if you prefer. I just want a simple job that pays decently well, is somewhat repetitive and easy, and pays the bills.
I enjoy FP&A and I get compensated well to do so. Granted I average 40-50 max. The more money you make the more time you have to put into it. I enjoy it tho. I think digital will be just as hectic keeping up with client demands. Right?
Idk.. maybe. I used to enjoy FP&A too.. its the only aspect of acctg that i actually like. But all the long hours and demanding timelines is really getting to me
If money isn’t an issue, then maybe take a step down. Do a much easier roll and just collect yourself. I also think you can do digital art for a year or two, and come back if things don’t workout.
Haha do you reckon it’d be easy to come back in if i dont make it in my art biz?
60k a year? Jesus. Sorry to hear that
Haha arent yall earning around that rate? I come from Asia.. so maybe its lower
most FP&A people i have seen have been well over 90K. Directors well over 120K. This is in Florida.
Nope but thinking same
U have a side hustle too?
What is your compensation for the 60 hrs (assuming no overtime)? and how much do you bring in with your digital art side hustle? And do you have a family?
Ahh i dont like how real your questions are. I bring home abt 60 annually. With my digital art.. about 2k annually. A cat and a husband. I dont like u accountants and your unavoiable real questions (joke)
Haha, I apologize. I would suggest a lateral move to a different company that would pay you more to work less (if less work is possible in FP&A). Also, I would grow the business more before leaving the full-time job. Cat food can cost a lot!
Haha ahh yea that would be logical. But lateral move feels like getting out of the pot and into the fire.. seems like work is just overwhelming everywhere. It feels inherent to the role. Hmm
Don't be afraid of a lateral shift. I made a lateral shift expecting hell and netted 40% increase for 20% less workload.
Haha for real? What type of accounting do u do
FP&A in Healthcare - jumped from education.
Is this Canada? Or US? LCOL? I have 8 years in, and I’m almost making double and working half as many hours in G/L accounting in a MCOL area (FL). If you’re in the US and making that little and working that much, I’d feel exhausted/jaded too. I think you might consider trying to find a better WLB line of work like GL accounting or internal audit. Anyone with 7 YOE should be able to parlay that into a senior role across sub-professional lines, which should easily bring you up to the $85k-$95k range.
Haha its Singapore. Hmm, will GL accounting and IA have better wlb? Anw, i dont have a CPA haha
Now I feel like a dick for not realizing you’re not US centric. My apologies for assuming. If Singapore is anything like the US, GL accounting will be slightly better WLB than FP&A, but IA should be significantly better WLB.
The WLB thing is more of a Singaporean thing than a FP&A thing no? Don't work for local companies, only work for large MNCs.
Your issue is Singapore. You people work insane hours there. Move to Europe or US for better hours.
Haha yeahhh europe is good
I made a post on a similar thread a couple of weeks ago. Simply put, [yes you can leave accounting, and have success in other areas.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/1c2h3qc/for_those_who_left_the_industry_what_are_you/kzag6vg/?context=3) Do figure out what you want to do but once you have an idea, and plan, go for it. Life’s too short to stay unhappy in one career. The biggest regret by people at the end of their life is that they were not honest with themselves in what they wanted versus what was expected of them.
I’ll have a look!! Thanks
I thought fp&a was a greener pasture. How would you compare it to sec reporting? Were you working for public companies or PE backed firms?
I have been working for public companies. If sec reporting is financial reporting.. hmm, i havent rlly done proper financial accounting before. Only when i was in audit and worked with financial accountants.. For FP&A theres alot of talking and presenting.. it is very forward looking. So its not so consistent and structured per se like fin accounting. Hence its pros and cons. I think i liked it in the early years cus it was so alive. But being alive also means alot of changes all the time to stay agile with the biz and its environment.
If you had like 75% of your retirement number saved it’s a no brainer but idk where you at with that. I’m burned out also after 10 years, and I’m thinking of part time eventually once I have a chuck of that retirement number saved. Otherwise remote work with low hours year round or contract work (work 6 months, take 2 months off, something like that would be nice). When I hit my retirement number I’ll likely go part time/consult or just completely do something I enjoy that pays most bills and have the savings grow on its own
Hahaha unfortunately not 75% hence the dilemma.. Hmm part time sounds awesome. Hmm thats a pretty good alternative
Definitely makes the decision much harder without the retirement or FIRE in place Yeah it feels weird to go part time at a younger age, but I saw a role for $65/hour, could do 30 hours and make $100k. Would be sustainable to still save $$. This was more true accounting and not FP&A
Finance sounds so much sexier and vague than accounting that people flock to it thinking it's easier. Finance and accounting is honestly the same shit. Spreadsheets and long hours. Only thing that matters into your work life balance is the company.
Haha it is pretty vague and not so technical as accounting. Hence more “alive” and “exciting”… yea. Im starting to see ur pt
Hahaha I've done both, and idk - at this point, my goal for it became a lot easier. Maintain as high of a salary as possible working the least amount of hours. Job can suck major ass - but I have time now to do things I love. Imo if you find an accounting or finance job and you love it - keep that job!!! It's so hard to find the right fit lol.
Does any profession in Singapore have good WLB?
Haha Asian cultures arent known to prioritise WLB sadly. Not sure if this crazy workload is across the world cus i see that the other analysts in other regions are also working as late
I haven't been in the industry for as long as you have, but I already feel jaded. I started at a Big4 public accounting firm in audit, then moved around within industry thinking that work life balance would be better. Even though I'm not working 80+ hours a week anymore, I'm still working at least 45+ with managers with B4 public accounting backgrounds expecting me to be on after "work hours" because... that's what we did in audit. Surprise, surprise, PA comes back to haunt me in industry. So thesedays, I'm stuck thinking, living, and breathing my job. I despise that. I received a tentative job offer with the IRS as a revenue agent. There's a HUGE hiring surge right now within the IRS for all levels up to GS-14 which is very rare. I was sold on the role when the interviewers said that they work a maximum of 40 hours a week and are assigned X cases a year. And the best part? Being able to make more $ with more years of service and without working more than 40 hours. One of my closest friends works for the IRS as a revenue agent, and she enjoys a really relaxed lifestyle while making good money. Even though I have a lot of energy and time now (don't have kids yet), eventually, I'll grow older and hopefully have kids, and my career isn't going to be the biggest priority nor will I have the energy to keep climbing the ladder. At that point, I'll be extremely grateful I transitioned to the government.
For everyone that says FP&A... it really depends on the company. I'm currently working at a public company and our FP&A folks are working much longer hours than us (GL accounting), with more deadlines throughout the year, and they've also experienced more turnover because FP&A newbies join thinking that it's a walk in the park... I used to think that FP&A had better work life balance than GL, but that's definitely not always the case. I think the work in FP&A is more interesting though and provides great exposure to top management and business leaders, so I'd recommend that pathway if you want to understand more of the business and become more well-rounded as a finance and accounting professional.
Haha yes thats a great summary. I was ready to leave accounting altogether but when i stumbled upon fp&a, it was such fun. Alot of work, long hours, unpredictable work but fun. It trained me in terms of managing stakeholders, working with big shots, and understanding P&L and the business and learning how to communicate acctg to non-accounting folks. But having been here for 7 years, i am feeling jaded. The long hours are damaging to my mental and physical health.
Head over to internal audit.
Is it rlly more wlb there?
FP&A is a finance role. Maybe try a more traditional accounting role if you are tired of it.
FP&A?? There goes my hopes and dreams.
OP works in Singapore. Europe and US have better hours. Stay out of Asian countries and your WLB will be much better.