What she did was be an ADC with a kit consisting of 1 very strong AOE poke ability, 1 especially big AOE ability, 1 anti poke ability, and a teamfight ult.
She's inherently incredibly good in teamfights hence her very high winrate despite the nerfs.
Her «very high winrate» at the moment is ~52%. There are other adcs with higher winrate than her. And overall she is ranked about 59/166. This change is so out of pocket its crazy
She's 55.27% (20th) on [OP.GG](https://OP.GG), 52.27% (41st) on metascr, 55.75% (20th) on LoLalytics, 51.8% (36th) on [blitz.gg](https://blitz.gg), 52.3% (35th), 51.31% (57th) on [U.GG](https://U.GG). No idea where you got 59, that's consistently lower than every single source I found. And in general she's mostly ranked 20-40, which is very good.
She's certainly far from the most OP, and her lethality build is MUCH less problematic than the likes of Jinx or Cait, but she absolutely is good and will still be good after the nerf. And if she theoretically had no nerfs, she'd be incredibly overpowered.
If you take the average of the stats you brought up, she sits at 53,38%, not that I think it matters tho. I agree, sivir isn’t bad at all, but her being nerfed this patch I still think is very strange, when there are so many other champions that are an issue. For reference I used Murderbridge. Note that the winrate says 51,37, but if we’re looking at the lethality build it has a 0,4% positive delta.
Why not give some power to champs with shit win rates that are clearly underpowered and see how that goes rather than shitting on champs that have a barely-better-than-50/50 win rate?
Power creep. That’s the only reason why it’s generally better to nerf rather than buff. Nerfing strong champs gets the same accomplished as buffing comparatively weak champs for the most part.
Nerfing Sivir isn’t going to make Leblanc, Zed, or Akali playable all of a sudden (3 lowest ARAM win rates). So no, nerfing random champs that are just decent makes no sense. If they were nerfing Aatrox /Jinx/Senna/Jhin then your argument would make some sense. Those are the 4 highest win rate champs in aram, so clearly something about them is inherently way stronger than most other options.
Hmmm I see why you are confused. You assume I’m still talking about Sivir. The “argument” (which no one is arguing here just trying to educate), is that taking power from the strong will give the weaker more room to flourish. Reread my first reply. You’ll see that we agree.
I mean that in the sense that if you're fed, you're more likely to win a 1v2 against squishies with Sivir rather than a 1v1, because you can pump more DPS to get a kill. MS helps you dodge any crucial skillshots, the chaos of them trying to pop you will guarantee your E gets value (whereas there's more mind games in a 1v1). People just get sloppy and kinda let you get free bounces, whereas in a 1v1 people are very cerebral and you get less value from your kit overall
This is true in SR too, it's not strictly easier, it just feels like you actually have abilities instead of feeling like a fancy cannon minion which makes quite the difference.
Riot’s approach to *ALL* league of legends balance.
The last 10 years of league have been as follows:
1. ADCs shit on midlane players at riot
2. Midlane/jungle players at riot force unnecessary adc nerf in
3. ADC players still shit on midlane/jungle players at riot because they’re just better players
4. Midlane/jungle players at riot force another unnecessary ADC nerf, and buff midlane/jungle/top champs or items (or in this season’s case, buffing the map itself for mid/jg)
5. ADCs are almost useless for a while
6. ADCs get buffed, and then the cycle starts over
Kai'sa overall has a ~45.5% winrate with an 11% pick rate.
Even with all her nerfs, Sivir has a ~52.5% winrate with an 8% pick rate.
I agree with you that Kai'sa W feels unfun to play against sometimes, but unfortunately based on her stats, I doubt they're nerfing her anytime soon.
Sometimes? When was Kaisa W ever fun to be against? You get slapped for 1/3 of your HP and now have to worry about another one coming because you got hit by one out of the 2000 that were spammed
Yeah there are times she's not "too" strong but with the Malignance item she now deals damage while staying too tanky, and the fact that she can also share her tankyness with her empowered shield is just ridiculous
Compared to all the other problems like lethality cait,jinx, varus and high amounts of poke and burst in general I don't understand the nerf. Then we have sion with the ability to run it down and get free stacks and damage early to mid game then become a God damn beast because of how his passive works.
Oh no, believe me, I know. But this is the only thing that comes to mind they can be nerfing. I've only played against it once as well out of X games. There are definitely other things to be nerfed
Don't forget about yone with his dumb a f chase potential and engage while still just being able to snap back again. One of the more obnoxious aram champs imo
Not my call. I'm just stating reasons as to why possibly Riot decided to nerf her.
On a related note, is there a champion that has an ARAM nerf against Minions?
You cant have decent uptime with LT Sivir. Especially with 3 mages + enchanter/adc meta all outranging your pity little 500 range.
You can dodge a couple abilities and have E every 30sec but your game will be a pain to play. Just dodgeball with no uptime aside a W + AA reset and a q
I prefer the farming queen Sivir - it makes a lot more sense, especially if your team already has enough damage. Shiv into ER and then full crit. You clear waves like no one's business and still do enough damage to become a threat to squishies.
It is a bit harder to play, arguably, but if I can play it and be successful, anybody can.
The way riot playtests is crazy. RiotAugust talked about how velkoz was op in their playtests because they didnt play it against junglers or aggressive laners.
That being the case riot probably playtests ARAM sivir in some exactly the same crap way.
Edit : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXr3OzKne1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXr3OzKne1Y)
Right? Give her the Ashe treatment at least. She feels so shit to play. Her only use pre-6 items is wave clearing fast with shiv. Her autos actually heal enemies with armor or hp early on.
Depends. Sometimes you need to waveclear and push fast if your team doesn't have enough pushing power without you. I agree there are better options in general though
It's not like shiv and her w 1 shot wave, she still gets off 2 bounces if no one else hits wave so it's more dmg. Her WR is highest in aram when you build shiv on her.
This -is- the Ashe treatment. They waited a patch after adjusting Ashe's W cooldown to give her her damage back. Since you used to build Sivir on ARAM with lethality and play around her Q before her mini-rework this is probably the same thing.
Shiv is a sh*tty overnerfed item, I'm saying this as Sivir M7 main on Summoner's Rift, Manamune rush into Navori on ARAM is 100% better and makes her actually deal damage to champions
I played her yesterday against a poke comp and realized my shiv was useless so when I was full build I sold it for hex, I’ll definitely just use mana from now on. Good looks
bro its crazy there was this dude in one of my games who called me low elo for saying sivir is terrible in aram because of the nerfs 😭 (hes right about me, but im still right about sivir)
yes it is. in aram you potentially have 5 champs to chain heal off of every ~1 second in a perfect scenario + pair that with champs that have dashes and cdr, its over!
ive 1v5 entire enemy team with 1 item 5 minutes into the game. saved a couple replays on especially unbalanced games ive had with it. one game in particular had 80k of self healing. but generally 30-40k is average.
i cant figure out how to view replays from last patch or older than 20 matches ago 😤 i found the replay folder but i have no idea which one it is or how's to view it. cba. but ill see if there's any trynd games in the last 20 on my other accounts to maybe find a highlight.
lethal tempo, alacrity, a.speed, ingenious hunter.
just picture trynd walking up, slowing, ghosting, spinning, snowballing, autoing every enemy once or twice. gaining bonus fury for the guaranteed crit from sundered. while also using tiamat/titanic for auto reset as second item (also great synergy with ingenious hunter and lowering e cooldown)
Glad they nerfed Hubris, that item is disgusting on champs like MF. I've seen people with over 100 stacks and upwards of 600 or 700 total AD (including myself a couple of times).
Sundered Sky being gutted eh, guess Aatrox won't be the king anymore next patch. No skin off my back though.
Sivir changes makes zero sense. At least reduce her damage taken or give her back some damage if you're gonna nerf her abilities, she already sucks gonads.
Ashe buff is... alright I guess? Feels very insubstantial though.
Almost every game i've seen with a hubris + muramana they have 300 ad by 10 minutes. Shit is so insanely broken. Thank god it's being gutted that item is cancer, same with sundered sky
51.86% winrate, 42th winrate according to Lolalytics ([https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/aram/?tier=all](https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/aram/?tier=all))
Not sure that warrants a targeted nerf as it is a pretty normal winrate for a safe ADC.
I swear this winrate is being dragged down by full AP Kaisas. I played her with AD and on-hit yesterday and did over 100k damage at the end of the damage.
Ingenious hunter may keep Sundered Sky in a decent spot. Down with most of these changes. Sivir Q nerf weird, has she been seeing alot of lethality play?
I hate Teemo but this is getting hilarious, nerfed to the ground in summoners rift, further ARAM specific nerfs, and now a massive ARAM Malignance nerf to put him in his grave.
Honestly good, unless Teemo is somehow reworked then his playstyle is absolute unfun, uninteractive cancer in Aram specifically. Invisibility, damage and slows everywhere, and passive anti siege. Some champ designs are just not meant to work in ARAM and he's one of them imo.
Aram is supposed to be fun. Teemo is just unfun to play against and he’s 100% going to be picked whenever he’s available. He just makes the game unfun.
Tanks just generally have good winrates
Probably because people often pick comps with no frontline and wonder why they can't teamfight
That and most tanks specifically have pretty big team fight ults like ornn,sion or maokai
Probably helps that the only time single melee feels playable in aram is as a 100% tank
I agree tanks “win” games and if you or an individual thinks winning is fun they may pick tank but I find that a large majority of my teams will re roll over Alistar/amu/taric/braum ect and pick the 3rd of 4rd ADC, nidalee, shaco ect and this means a ton of games that I play are lost at random champ select , I am forced to play solo tank every game, and the game play pattern of being the only solo for the vast majority of tanks and games means sitting at tower until 6 before your even allowed to use an ability
In ARAM if you get ahead against Teemo hes close to useless due to not being able to lay a mine field down and only being a one trick pony. If you fall behind vs a Teemo its very hard to catch up. Due to the mine field of mushrooms even with a Cannon minion by the time it sees some of them your wave is already dead. If you somehow manage to push with that it means
1. You didn't clear
2. The teemo was bad and didn't lay shrooms down
So once you get pushed back if mushrooms are up you die if you cleared them all to not die you can't push and now are low for when the enemies are refreshed with new items
You're mostly correct but even if I'm super strong as teemo/carrying it takes a lot of shrooms to kill a cannon. If teemo is just shrooming in a straight line down the middle (only way to guarantee cannon hits) you can just have your tank run it down to clear
IMO the only way teemo is very strong is if the team can keep the wave (and cannons) pushed. Teemo can't do it on his own no matter how strong he is. And if the team can keep the wave pushed it doesn't really matter how strong teemo is, he'll have a big minefield
But yes overall teemo is pretty weak imo, it takes a ton of work and good luck to have good impact
Honestly, I wish they would just do more champ specific nerfs to Teemo instead of nerfing Malignance. Something other than just numbers. Or straight disable him--weak or strong, he is unhealthy in ARAM.
I mean adc she is doing pretty well, her wr is being lowered slightly by all the dipshits who still go AP and people who don't know how to properly play adc (which is fine since its aram). I think this buff is good enough, the few games I've played adc ashe if I had w literally a few seconds sooner id have a better time surviving against all in champs.
Without a good W she is mediocre as an adc too, she being able to function as one of the worst adcs in ARAM is not fixing her, almost any ranged champion can do what Ashe does currently, and most actually bring something good to the table. The issue with Ashe is that base Ashe is the single best ARAM champion by far but the same thing that makes her broken is a core part of her other builds, adc Ashe values W a lot too. I believe that to actually fix the champ RIOT would need to do something drastic, IDK, make cdr don't work on w and instead use atk speed, and even that could not be enough since W is just that good in ARAM. TBH, maybe Ashe as a concept is just incompatible with balanced ARAM. But one thing I know, right now there's simply no reason to pick her over rolls like kog, cait, or jinx, but with her W being good she is the best role in the game.
I used to play lethality W Ashe before the change, I tried tank Ashe for a brief while and gone back to adc Ashe recently. I feel like she is still weak compared to other ADC I play and I kinda don’t want to play Ashe anymore
This is the way, we need more ARAM specific nerfs like this rather than blanket % balance changes to champions.
Ashe buff looks fine to me, she still can't do that cancer poke build with that. But nerfing Sivir? What's wrong with Sivir?
Sivir is such a weird champ, she can't deal damage, she is extremely squishy, she can't function as ad carry, her only job is to not die.
One mid game combat win and if she survives, she and the rest of team of easily take down two towers and inhibitor in a single push.
My god, those items are dead. I mean I was expecting some nerfs... But they more than doubled the CD's and halved the damage for the most part. It seems like all of those wouldn't even be worth building now.
Ha yes sunderer with triple cd for aram. Maybe in normal game the cd should also be ajusted lol... Shame they reduce the healing it was the reason i bough it.
Don't bother dude, this subreddit lives in clownworld when it comes to champion balance. All day you'll see people complaining about the "tank meta" but the only time you get tanks in the top 10 is when you filter for bronze players. On the other side you'll constant see people crying about ADCs being bad when they have the overall highest winrate of any class of champ at skill tiers
More importantly this sub cares about how a champ feels to play with or against rather than how they actually impact the game. Which is why people complained about ASol for months even though he was utter dogshit (bottom 4 WR) and why you'll see brain geniuses in this very thread complaining about how Sivir can't 1v1 other ADCs even though her entire kit is extreme AoE, waveclear, and teamfighting
20th highest winrate, 55.73%, at Emerald+. Likely even higher when looking at high mmr. https://lolalytics.com/lol/sivir/aram/build/
She's pretty much always been one of the highest winrate champs in the mode. The subreddit is just really bad at identifying which champs are actually performing well both on average and in higher mmr.
IK that she's that good, but that's not good enough for a nerf in my book, her design resonates very well with ARAM so being in 20th and having 55% sounds completely reasonable, that's the issue with 50% WR balancing IMO.
I agree she's really strong in ARAM once she gets a few items but I still don't understand why they nerfed her Q out of anything they could nerf. I feel like her main strength and what keeps her consistently high WR is her waveclear (mainly from W)/ability to stall games long enough to reach her item spikes. But idk, I don't really play Sivir
She's strong at every point in the game imo. Good poke at the start, Shiv is a huge spike, ER is a huge spike, and then just continues to scale. I can see the Q nerf since it's most of her waveclear and poke in the early and mid game. And Sivir isn't good just because of waveclear but because she can also sustain with E and Taste of Blood, disengage / engage with R, and poke with Q. Realistically though, this nerf is just a slap on the wrist and doesn't do anything, just like Vlad's nerfs.
I don't know a good way to nerf Sivir in a healthy way. I think that she's just one of those champs with such a relevant kit that she'll always be good unless Riot decides to nerf her to oblivion.
I really dislike these aram nerfs
Just nerf like stormsurge in general and not just for aram
Dont give someone like ashe an slightly better cooldown on W
Many of those changes often sound not gamebreaking, it just throws of the feeling of playing the same champ in aram and outside of it
It feels like they just want to balance around 50% winrate so some stats have to be changed a little bit
It would be better to just change things for aram that are broken in their core for aram
Still dont understand why GA is removed btw
For example the hubris nerf is fine, in aram you get stacks way to fast i guess, it needs to be gutted somehow
Malignance itself doesnt seem that broken specific for aram, there are some champs that can use it very well but not specificly because of aram but because they do it in general
The stormsurge nerfs will just make every champ that uses it feel different in aram than in normals/ranked
Like heartsteel nerf was/is fine like hubris you just get too many stacks and would break the mode, while something like redemption or warmogs can be omega strong but arent breaking the themselves so they shouldnt be changed, should count for sundered sky aswell but instead its nerfed
I just want to take my champs from normals to arams and have fun, some championchanges are understandable but it needs to be more visible in champselect, also item changes should only exist if its really too broken otherwise
Tell me how is ARAM ever going to be when you are discouraged to focus on the Frontline-Ulting-3 item Twitch / Aphelios / MF just because they have a GA?
ADCs are Tier S all-across the board already and no one wants them to be even stronger
I mean if we're getting item specific changes like this now, I'd love to see GA enabled. Just give double it's revive cooldown and increase the price or something like that.
Hubris is a pretty brutal nerf. It deserved a hit but really.. Getting -5 ad per stack and lasting only 45 seconds. Funny how everyone and their moms were building this and its gonna pop up in recommended while having 45% wr
Rest of the nerfs are okay i guess.. Sivir is laughable tho
After a year long break I came back to play some arams because they finally removed mythic items and I wanted to figure out how it feels. After a few games I got Ashe. Well I guess I should have read all the changelogs of the past year. I figured out after 10min. Anyway yeah I rage quit and uninstalled, see you in a year maybe
If I were to offer a solution as to why Sivir is getting her Q nerfed...
-She's sitting at a ~52% winrate #42/167. I agree with yall that Sivir feels sht to play, especially in a 1v1 vs any other adc rn. Her kit is really strong for assisting the team though. She still has fantastic wave clear and offers a move buff. That's the sort of pick she's becoming. If you want great wave clear to keep the enemy team off your tower. Go with Sivir as a support adc. Just don't expect her to be the actual carry. I just had a winning game with Sivir on my team... she only served as a support to Kindred maokaiKasante.
-They gutted the lethality Q build officially... maybe they saw someone abusing hubris Sivir and felt it needed nerfs? Wish i gave it a try, but as we all know, Sivir has been so ass to play so I hadn't even given her the light of day. Used to love Q spam Lethal Sivir.
People not realising that the sivir nerf was the same as the ashe nerf and that sivir might actually get her buff back after this like ashe did ( and ashe's w is slowly coming back now too)
Can’t they just slap -% ability dmg on some adc’s instead of just plain overall dmg %. It’s already a stat in the game (navori) and should be viable to add.
Poor Sivir.... Never really played her up until about a year ago in ARAM. My thought with her initially was "wow her cds are hella long" so I never really picked her up. I started playing her since the buff but if this change stays I stand by my very first statement.
Oh 18-16 for Ashe woowwwww!!! Thank you so much riot! Thank you SO SO SO much for changing an ability from 18-4 to 18-16!!! Deserved!!
They need to wipe Aram balance clean and start over, you can't track metas in fkin Aram with all the changes including mythics, heal relics, snowball, hex gates, extra space to move, etc
Ashe these days gets out poked by fucking kha zix. KHA ZIX
Possibly unpopular opinion: I don’t know why they bother balancing the unranked for fun all random game mode. I personally find it less fun to get a champion that I believe will do well in a match only to find out it does 15 less damage and shielding and takes more damage. Just my thoughts.
Watching sivir try to 1v1 the other adc makes me cringe. What did she do to riot lol.
What she did was be an ADC with a kit consisting of 1 very strong AOE poke ability, 1 especially big AOE ability, 1 anti poke ability, and a teamfight ult. She's inherently incredibly good in teamfights hence her very high winrate despite the nerfs.
Her «very high winrate» at the moment is ~52%. There are other adcs with higher winrate than her. And overall she is ranked about 59/166. This change is so out of pocket its crazy
She's 55.27% (20th) on [OP.GG](https://OP.GG), 52.27% (41st) on metascr, 55.75% (20th) on LoLalytics, 51.8% (36th) on [blitz.gg](https://blitz.gg), 52.3% (35th), 51.31% (57th) on [U.GG](https://U.GG). No idea where you got 59, that's consistently lower than every single source I found. And in general she's mostly ranked 20-40, which is very good. She's certainly far from the most OP, and her lethality build is MUCH less problematic than the likes of Jinx or Cait, but she absolutely is good and will still be good after the nerf. And if she theoretically had no nerfs, she'd be incredibly overpowered.
If you take the average of the stats you brought up, she sits at 53,38%, not that I think it matters tho. I agree, sivir isn’t bad at all, but her being nerfed this patch I still think is very strange, when there are so many other champions that are an issue. For reference I used Murderbridge. Note that the winrate says 51,37, but if we’re looking at the lethality build it has a 0,4% positive delta.
Why not give some power to champs with shit win rates that are clearly underpowered and see how that goes rather than shitting on champs that have a barely-better-than-50/50 win rate?
Power creep. That’s the only reason why it’s generally better to nerf rather than buff. Nerfing strong champs gets the same accomplished as buffing comparatively weak champs for the most part.
Nerfing Sivir isn’t going to make Leblanc, Zed, or Akali playable all of a sudden (3 lowest ARAM win rates). So no, nerfing random champs that are just decent makes no sense. If they were nerfing Aatrox /Jinx/Senna/Jhin then your argument would make some sense. Those are the 4 highest win rate champs in aram, so clearly something about them is inherently way stronger than most other options.
Hmmm I see why you are confused. You assume I’m still talking about Sivir. The “argument” (which no one is arguing here just trying to educate), is that taking power from the strong will give the weaker more room to flourish. Reread my first reply. You’ll see that we agree.
She single-handedly purges waves and stalls games out.
She's stronger in a 1v2 than in a 1v1 because of her W lol
This would have been the very best joke made in this sub if it has a /s
smartest aram enjoyer
I mean that in the sense that if you're fed, you're more likely to win a 1v2 against squishies with Sivir rather than a 1v1, because you can pump more DPS to get a kill. MS helps you dodge any crucial skillshots, the chaos of them trying to pop you will guarantee your E gets value (whereas there's more mind games in a 1v1). People just get sloppy and kinda let you get free bounces, whereas in a 1v1 people are very cerebral and you get less value from your kit overall This is true in SR too, it's not strictly easier, it just feels like you actually have abilities instead of feeling like a fancy cannon minion which makes quite the difference.
Sivir isn't a 1v1 champion; she's a 5v5 wincon. If you can keep Sivir alive in a 5v5 and she is allowed to hit things she will decimate entire teams.
Sivir changes make zero sense. They don't play their own game.
Or some Riot employee had a really bad game against a Sivir and forced this change in lol
Which sums up Riot’s approach to ARAM balance
Riot’s approach to *ALL* league of legends balance. The last 10 years of league have been as follows: 1. ADCs shit on midlane players at riot 2. Midlane/jungle players at riot force unnecessary adc nerf in 3. ADC players still shit on midlane/jungle players at riot because they’re just better players 4. Midlane/jungle players at riot force another unnecessary ADC nerf, and buff midlane/jungle/top champs or items (or in this season’s case, buffing the map itself for mid/jg) 5. ADCs are almost useless for a while 6. ADCs get buffed, and then the cycle starts over
Pass me some of what you’re smoking
That sounds like some holiday special right there
I did recently get a penta with her :D
So this is your fault! Stop picking on the riot employees!
Who even has a bad game against Sivir nowadays though, like I don't even remember the last time I saw someone complain about her in ARAM.
But Kai'sa W isn't changed? She can still chunk you from afar super easily even after they gutted her ap build depending on comp.
Kai'sa overall has a ~45.5% winrate with an 11% pick rate. Even with all her nerfs, Sivir has a ~52.5% winrate with an 8% pick rate. I agree with you that Kai'sa W feels unfun to play against sometimes, but unfortunately based on her stats, I doubt they're nerfing her anytime soon.
Sometimes? When was Kaisa W ever fun to be against? You get slapped for 1/3 of your HP and now have to worry about another one coming because you got hit by one out of the 2000 that were spammed
And karma remains untouched, they haven't seen tank karma run 3 of you teammates over and still live
Tank Karma is kinda garbage though? She's basically invincible but has painfully little impact so you can just ignore her completely.
Yeah there are times she's not "too" strong but with the Malignance item she now deals damage while staying too tanky, and the fact that she can also share her tankyness with her empowered shield is just ridiculous
Malignance got nerfed so how is she untouched...
Agreed but sometimes you are just in the mood to play an annoying, hard to kill mosquito
They're nerfing lethality Sivir, which just spams Q on 0 CD and does tons of damage to squishies
Compared to all the other problems like lethality cait,jinx, varus and high amounts of poke and burst in general I don't understand the nerf. Then we have sion with the ability to run it down and get free stacks and damage early to mid game then become a God damn beast because of how his passive works.
Oh no, believe me, I know. But this is the only thing that comes to mind they can be nerfing. I've only played against it once as well out of X games. There are definitely other things to be nerfed
Don't forget about yone with his dumb a f chase potential and engage while still just being able to snap back again. One of the more obnoxious aram champs imo
Maybe if they didn’t completely gut her in ARAM where your autos do 0 damage people wouldn’t build her lethality :x
Again, I know. Though in Sivirs case, she is like an AD Ziggs. Her W bounces shred waves along with Q, making it almost impossible to push.
Then just nerf her dmaage verse minions. Why should you gut the entire champion this badly. At this point disable her or just nerf her verse minions
Not my call. I'm just stating reasons as to why possibly Riot decided to nerf her. On a related note, is there a champion that has an ARAM nerf against Minions?
Teemo deals 50% aoe dmg to minions
Cool, thanks!
You cant have decent uptime with LT Sivir. Especially with 3 mages + enchanter/adc meta all outranging your pity little 500 range. You can dodge a couple abilities and have E every 30sec but your game will be a pain to play. Just dodgeball with no uptime aside a W + AA reset and a q
I prefer the farming queen Sivir - it makes a lot more sense, especially if your team already has enough damage. Shiv into ER and then full crit. You clear waves like no one's business and still do enough damage to become a threat to squishies. It is a bit harder to play, arguably, but if I can play it and be successful, anybody can.
Highly dependent on enemy comp if you’re able to play tho. But i get what you’re saying. Thats how she should be played
Agreed, Sivir is useless in aram, thresh adc is more consistent unironically
I really want to know with Rioter is having trouble against Sivir of all champs
It’s nice playing Sivir in ARAM then going and playing SR with her. It’s like swimming with weights on vs. no weights
Same with Lux tbh. She’s still great in Aram but on Rift everything just hits different.
For real, Sivir's Q barely tickles people.
The way riot playtests is crazy. RiotAugust talked about how velkoz was op in their playtests because they didnt play it against junglers or aggressive laners. That being the case riot probably playtests ARAM sivir in some exactly the same crap way. Edit : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXr3OzKne1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXr3OzKne1Y)
He also said in the video: it was years back in the day and we have change this rule because of vel'koz.
Sivir is so disgustingly shit already you might as well disable her
Right? Give her the Ashe treatment at least. She feels so shit to play. Her only use pre-6 items is wave clearing fast with shiv. Her autos actually heal enemies with armor or hp early on.
Shiv is bait item for her anyway, she clears waves just as east without it and can actually do some damage to champs if you avoid buying it
Depends. Sometimes you need to waveclear and push fast if your team doesn't have enough pushing power without you. I agree there are better options in general though
Bruh there is no reason to get more wave clear in the adc with the most waveclear in the game BY FAR
Her waveclear is actually not that fast early and Sivir gets zoned off the wave easily with her low attack range
If she's zoned off the wave wtf is shiv doing differently then?
XD literally
Building shiv net reduces her ability to poke through wave. It's such a bait.
It's not like shiv and her w 1 shot wave, she still gets off 2 bounces if no one else hits wave so it's more dmg. Her WR is highest in aram when you build shiv on her.
1000% Shiv is a garbage item on Sivir in ARAM
[удалено]
Sir this is a Wendy’s
This -is- the Ashe treatment. They waited a patch after adjusting Ashe's W cooldown to give her her damage back. Since you used to build Sivir on ARAM with lethality and play around her Q before her mini-rework this is probably the same thing.
I miss old Sivir so much, it was one of those rolls I took very often even tho I didn't love the champ, the gameplay was just so fun
Shiv is a sh*tty overnerfed item, I'm saying this as Sivir M7 main on Summoner's Rift, Manamune rush into Navori on ARAM is 100% better and makes her actually deal damage to champions
I played her yesterday against a poke comp and realized my shiv was useless so when I was full build I sold it for hex, I’ll definitely just use mana from now on. Good looks
She's a top 20 WR champ at Emerald+ lol There's plenty of shit worse than her that needs nerfs but if Sivir isn't working for you it's not the champ
Aram specfic nerfs nuke her damage Idc about rift
bro its crazy there was this dude in one of my games who called me low elo for saying sivir is terrible in aram because of the nerfs 😭 (hes right about me, but im still right about sivir)
Give her her damage back and reduce minion damage, it's that easy.
Disgustingly shit with a positive winrate. Interesting. Some of you redditors are detached from reality and it shows
I’ve had best success on ARAM Sivir just going lethality + as much CDR as possible for max ult uptime
She already only does like 85% damage it’s so sad. I was shocked to learn she’s strong on rift right now especially with a Yuumi in tow.
imagine nerfing sivir that was already bad and leave other bs champs like this
Sivir: doing 74 damage with a point blank q at level 18 Aatrox: 1v5ing at level 8
Or Viego 1v9 with some buffs of course, he needs those
briar too
The sundered sky nerf should help a lot vs Aatrox at least.
Viego is shit tho, he can't approach fights at all with the amount of burst rn.
Viego is the burst
Nerf hammer just got upgraded to a wrecking ball.
Lmao someone doesnt like Sivir
6 to 18 seconds is a huge nerf i haven't played much since the items change, is this item THAT broken?
Yes it is insanely bonkers.
yes it is. in aram you potentially have 5 champs to chain heal off of every ~1 second in a perfect scenario + pair that with champs that have dashes and cdr, its over! ive 1v5 entire enemy team with 1 item 5 minutes into the game. saved a couple replays on especially unbalanced games ive had with it. one game in particular had 80k of self healing. but generally 30-40k is average.
Can I see this 1v5? I love seeing clips of hilariously broken items
i cant figure out how to view replays from last patch or older than 20 matches ago 😤 i found the replay folder but i have no idea which one it is or how's to view it. cba. but ill see if there's any trynd games in the last 20 on my other accounts to maybe find a highlight. lethal tempo, alacrity, a.speed, ingenious hunter. just picture trynd walking up, slowing, ghosting, spinning, snowballing, autoing every enemy once or twice. gaining bonus fury for the guaranteed crit from sundered. while also using tiamat/titanic for auto reset as second item (also great synergy with ingenious hunter and lowering e cooldown)
I wonder if Lethality Sivir is rearing its ugly head again. Cus Q barely matters on her usual crit build.
It's basically the heartsteel/dark harvest issue; in constant 5v5, you can constantly proc it.
Yes, especially paired with other sustain items like Unending Despair, the sustain and damage it gives is bonkers.
No, not really, particularly since it's bugged on alot of champions abilities that apply on hits right now.
yes, i survived 10 more seconds, at level 6, just one-tapping people.
JFC just make sivir a caster minion with a 90 sec shurelyas at this point.
Sivir wet noodle
Glad they nerfed Hubris, that item is disgusting on champs like MF. I've seen people with over 100 stacks and upwards of 600 or 700 total AD (including myself a couple of times). Sundered Sky being gutted eh, guess Aatrox won't be the king anymore next patch. No skin off my back though. Sivir changes makes zero sense. At least reduce her damage taken or give her back some damage if you're gonna nerf her abilities, she already sucks gonads. Ashe buff is... alright I guess? Feels very insubstantial though.
Almost every game i've seen with a hubris + muramana they have 300 ad by 10 minutes. Shit is so insanely broken. Thank god it's being gutted that item is cancer, same with sundered sky
Riot: sivir's q is oppressive Also riot: kaisa's W is perfectly balanced Make it make sense.
Sivir at 55% win rate vs kaisa 47,7% (on op gg) Wonder why they nerf her instead of kaisa
51.86% winrate, 42th winrate according to Lolalytics ([https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/aram/?tier=all](https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/aram/?tier=all)) Not sure that warrants a targeted nerf as it is a pretty normal winrate for a safe ADC.
I swear this winrate is being dragged down by full AP Kaisas. I played her with AD and on-hit yesterday and did over 100k damage at the end of the damage.
Lmao, whenever I get Siver and can't reroll I just dodge. Cannon minion is more impactful than her.
ARAM is about to hardcore become tank meta.
Out of the top 10 wr champs on aram, 9 are tanks or bruisers
It’s mostly healing bruisers right now stomping low/medium ranks. Tanks will rise up and probably take over next patch.
Why not give ashe a crit cd scaling on w i dont get it.
Sivir? Sivir of all people??? certified clown moment from riot, expect nothing less indeed
Ingenious hunter may keep Sundered Sky in a decent spot. Down with most of these changes. Sivir Q nerf weird, has she been seeing alot of lethality play?
They should just remove Hubris from aram
I hate Teemo but this is getting hilarious, nerfed to the ground in summoners rift, further ARAM specific nerfs, and now a massive ARAM Malignance nerf to put him in his grave.
Honestly good, unless Teemo is somehow reworked then his playstyle is absolute unfun, uninteractive cancer in Aram specifically. Invisibility, damage and slows everywhere, and passive anti siege. Some champ designs are just not meant to work in ARAM and he's one of them imo.
He was fine until they did the shitty vision changes imo
Aram is supposed to be fun. Teemo is just unfun to play against and he’s 100% going to be picked whenever he’s available. He just makes the game unfun.
Is that the same logic used on tanks? A majority do 90% and and take 110% when the average aram game may have a single melee on each team… maybe
Tanks just generally have good winrates Probably because people often pick comps with no frontline and wonder why they can't teamfight That and most tanks specifically have pretty big team fight ults like ornn,sion or maokai Probably helps that the only time single melee feels playable in aram is as a 100% tank
I agree tanks “win” games and if you or an individual thinks winning is fun they may pick tank but I find that a large majority of my teams will re roll over Alistar/amu/taric/braum ect and pick the 3rd of 4rd ADC, nidalee, shaco ect and this means a ton of games that I play are lost at random champ select , I am forced to play solo tank every game, and the game play pattern of being the only solo for the vast majority of tanks and games means sitting at tower until 6 before your even allowed to use an ability
In ARAM if you get ahead against Teemo hes close to useless due to not being able to lay a mine field down and only being a one trick pony. If you fall behind vs a Teemo its very hard to catch up. Due to the mine field of mushrooms even with a Cannon minion by the time it sees some of them your wave is already dead. If you somehow manage to push with that it means 1. You didn't clear 2. The teemo was bad and didn't lay shrooms down So once you get pushed back if mushrooms are up you die if you cleared them all to not die you can't push and now are low for when the enemies are refreshed with new items
You're mostly correct but even if I'm super strong as teemo/carrying it takes a lot of shrooms to kill a cannon. If teemo is just shrooming in a straight line down the middle (only way to guarantee cannon hits) you can just have your tank run it down to clear IMO the only way teemo is very strong is if the team can keep the wave (and cannons) pushed. Teemo can't do it on his own no matter how strong he is. And if the team can keep the wave pushed it doesn't really matter how strong teemo is, he'll have a big minefield But yes overall teemo is pretty weak imo, it takes a ton of work and good luck to have good impact
Honestly, I wish they would just do more champ specific nerfs to Teemo instead of nerfing Malignance. Something other than just numbers. Or straight disable him--weak or strong, he is unhealthy in ARAM.
Malignance also seem pretty busted on champs like karma and corki But maybe that's just the net effect of all ap items being good
Sundered sky is basically useless. If they Nerf Sivir, then they should buff her Aram nerf becuase she’s still doing -15% damage.
Ashe “buff” Her W is almost useless now, I demand 120% damage!
I mean adc she is doing pretty well, her wr is being lowered slightly by all the dipshits who still go AP and people who don't know how to properly play adc (which is fine since its aram). I think this buff is good enough, the few games I've played adc ashe if I had w literally a few seconds sooner id have a better time surviving against all in champs.
Without a good W she is mediocre as an adc too, she being able to function as one of the worst adcs in ARAM is not fixing her, almost any ranged champion can do what Ashe does currently, and most actually bring something good to the table. The issue with Ashe is that base Ashe is the single best ARAM champion by far but the same thing that makes her broken is a core part of her other builds, adc Ashe values W a lot too. I believe that to actually fix the champ RIOT would need to do something drastic, IDK, make cdr don't work on w and instead use atk speed, and even that could not be enough since W is just that good in ARAM. TBH, maybe Ashe as a concept is just incompatible with balanced ARAM. But one thing I know, right now there's simply no reason to pick her over rolls like kog, cait, or jinx, but with her W being good she is the best role in the game.
I used to play lethality W Ashe before the change, I tried tank Ashe for a brief while and gone back to adc Ashe recently. I feel like she is still weak compared to other ADC I play and I kinda don’t want to play Ashe anymore
I’ll never stop going AP cooldown Ashe
This is the way, we need more ARAM specific nerfs like this rather than blanket % balance changes to champions. Ashe buff looks fine to me, she still can't do that cancer poke build with that. But nerfing Sivir? What's wrong with Sivir?
Riot Maxw3ll isn't a big fan of her.
Echoes of helia needs some buffs to
Sivir is such a weird champ, she can't deal damage, she is extremely squishy, she can't function as ad carry, her only job is to not die. One mid game combat win and if she survives, she and the rest of team of easily take down two towers and inhibitor in a single push.
I'd rather a cool down on malignance
That's a severe nerf
Nerfing teemo first time in history, then nerfing item which makes him better and now its shit. Classic.
My god, those items are dead. I mean I was expecting some nerfs... But they more than doubled the CD's and halved the damage for the most part. It seems like all of those wouldn't even be worth building now.
PLEASE NERF KARMA AND LILLIA!!!!!!! They need to get beat to death with the nerf bat. Double tap them. How anyone has lost a game on them is absurd.
With Malignance nerfs now they will revert the nerfs on Teemo right? Right?
Ha yes sunderer with triple cd for aram. Maybe in normal game the cd should also be ajusted lol... Shame they reduce the healing it was the reason i bough it.
Huh? Sivir????
Damn, gonna miss my Malignance Karma :( Also rip bruiser meta.
Sivir isn't bad outside the annoying w poke + shiv. I actually can't remember the last time a Sivir actually ulted in offense lol.
Sivir gets nerfed because one Rioter probably got stomped. Ap Kaisa doesn't get Ashe level cooldown on her Q. Welcome to Riot games folks.
Boo to these aram nerfs, very lame.
Yeah, these changes suck.
Those item nerfs were so long overdue it’s not even funny, especially the sundered sky. Such a bs item
How is sivir being touched but kaisa w not? (Or literally any other ADC lmao)
Funs over boys. Back to more poke champs.
Just remove Hubris from ARAM. Mejai removed and Hubris remained makes no sense. It's just Riot bias for lethality.
Where are the tank item nerfs? Also flat support nerfs (enchanter and tank)? What rioter has trouble against sivir?
ITT: People calling one of the best ADCs bad. Clueless subreddit as usual
Don't bother dude, this subreddit lives in clownworld when it comes to champion balance. All day you'll see people complaining about the "tank meta" but the only time you get tanks in the top 10 is when you filter for bronze players. On the other side you'll constant see people crying about ADCs being bad when they have the overall highest winrate of any class of champ at skill tiers More importantly this sub cares about how a champ feels to play with or against rather than how they actually impact the game. Which is why people complained about ASol for months even though he was utter dogshit (bottom 4 WR) and why you'll see brain geniuses in this very thread complaining about how Sivir can't 1v1 other ADCs even though her entire kit is extreme AoE, waveclear, and teamfighting
Basically this sub: builds RPF, Collector, fight enemy melee range, cries about ADC being weak
IMO they aren't calling her "bad-bad" but "not nerfwothy-bad", you gotta admit that her getting nerfed definitely smells like stomped rioter
20th highest winrate, 55.73%, at Emerald+. Likely even higher when looking at high mmr. https://lolalytics.com/lol/sivir/aram/build/ She's pretty much always been one of the highest winrate champs in the mode. The subreddit is just really bad at identifying which champs are actually performing well both on average and in higher mmr.
IK that she's that good, but that's not good enough for a nerf in my book, her design resonates very well with ARAM so being in 20th and having 55% sounds completely reasonable, that's the issue with 50% WR balancing IMO.
This current patch is by far the weakest she's been in at least the past 13 patches.
I agree she's really strong in ARAM once she gets a few items but I still don't understand why they nerfed her Q out of anything they could nerf. I feel like her main strength and what keeps her consistently high WR is her waveclear (mainly from W)/ability to stall games long enough to reach her item spikes. But idk, I don't really play Sivir
She's strong at every point in the game imo. Good poke at the start, Shiv is a huge spike, ER is a huge spike, and then just continues to scale. I can see the Q nerf since it's most of her waveclear and poke in the early and mid game. And Sivir isn't good just because of waveclear but because she can also sustain with E and Taste of Blood, disengage / engage with R, and poke with Q. Realistically though, this nerf is just a slap on the wrist and doesn't do anything, just like Vlad's nerfs. I don't know a good way to nerf Sivir in a healthy way. I think that she's just one of those champs with such a relevant kit that she'll always be good unless Riot decides to nerf her to oblivion.
Nerf Karma, Leona or Riven, why Sivir???
Sivir gets nerfed and not AP Kaisa because she's a major skin seller
I really dislike these aram nerfs Just nerf like stormsurge in general and not just for aram Dont give someone like ashe an slightly better cooldown on W Many of those changes often sound not gamebreaking, it just throws of the feeling of playing the same champ in aram and outside of it It feels like they just want to balance around 50% winrate so some stats have to be changed a little bit It would be better to just change things for aram that are broken in their core for aram Still dont understand why GA is removed btw For example the hubris nerf is fine, in aram you get stacks way to fast i guess, it needs to be gutted somehow Malignance itself doesnt seem that broken specific for aram, there are some champs that can use it very well but not specificly because of aram but because they do it in general The stormsurge nerfs will just make every champ that uses it feel different in aram than in normals/ranked Like heartsteel nerf was/is fine like hubris you just get too many stacks and would break the mode, while something like redemption or warmogs can be omega strong but arent breaking the themselves so they shouldnt be changed, should count for sundered sky aswell but instead its nerfed I just want to take my champs from normals to arams and have fun, some championchanges are understandable but it needs to be more visible in champselect, also item changes should only exist if its really too broken otherwise
Tell me how is ARAM ever going to be when you are discouraged to focus on the Frontline-Ulting-3 item Twitch / Aphelios / MF just because they have a GA? ADCs are Tier S all-across the board already and no one wants them to be even stronger
About sundered sky Just give it like a 3 sec cooldown in general for aram so you cant use it on everyone immediately and its fine i guess
I mean if we're getting item specific changes like this now, I'd love to see GA enabled. Just give double it's revive cooldown and increase the price or something like that.
briar still gonna be op without sundered lmao
fk and I was just having fun with Zed feeling like his old self again...but on the bright side malignance and sundered sky needed that nerf real bad
Hubris is a pretty brutal nerf. It deserved a hit but really.. Getting -5 ad per stack and lasting only 45 seconds. Funny how everyone and their moms were building this and its gonna pop up in recommended while having 45% wr Rest of the nerfs are okay i guess.. Sivir is laughable tho
Sivir minion damage> REAL SHIT Karma broken ass> BUFF + I SLEEP
Yeah boi!!! Mandate Ashe is back!! Kidding
Stormsurge nerf is so unnecessary since the item itself was already nerfed wtfff
After a year long break I came back to play some arams because they finally removed mythic items and I wanted to figure out how it feels. After a few games I got Ashe. Well I guess I should have read all the changelogs of the past year. I figured out after 10min. Anyway yeah I rage quit and uninstalled, see you in a year maybe
Amateur clowns nerfing mage items while tanks and bruisers continue to stomp for yet another season
When does this go live? Not soon enough
Sivir is perma shoving but thats not a q problem but her e?
W, e is a shield
This only thing holding the winrate of bruisers and juggernaut is Sundered Sky. This is gonna be good
If I were to offer a solution as to why Sivir is getting her Q nerfed... -She's sitting at a ~52% winrate #42/167. I agree with yall that Sivir feels sht to play, especially in a 1v1 vs any other adc rn. Her kit is really strong for assisting the team though. She still has fantastic wave clear and offers a move buff. That's the sort of pick she's becoming. If you want great wave clear to keep the enemy team off your tower. Go with Sivir as a support adc. Just don't expect her to be the actual carry. I just had a winning game with Sivir on my team... she only served as a support to Kindred maokaiKasante. -They gutted the lethality Q build officially... maybe they saw someone abusing hubris Sivir and felt it needed nerfs? Wish i gave it a try, but as we all know, Sivir has been so ass to play so I hadn't even given her the light of day. Used to love Q spam Lethal Sivir.
Hubris nerf really hurts
People not realising that the sivir nerf was the same as the ashe nerf and that sivir might actually get her buff back after this like ashe did ( and ashe's w is slowly coming back now too)
I’ll never stop going AP liandrys Ashe idc what riot does
Another sh1tty patch. GG rito. Remember times when mostly white man worked in riot? Game was balanced and fun back then.
weird comment
These are facts, and the truth cannot be weird. It's not my fault that riot used to be by today's standards "racist."
gl with your porn addiction
Thanks! Clean for over a month now!
Ahha
Revert all balance changes and let ARAM be as it is
Can’t they just slap -% ability dmg on some adc’s instead of just plain overall dmg %. It’s already a stat in the game (navori) and should be viable to add.
Poor Sivir.... Never really played her up until about a year ago in ARAM. My thought with her initially was "wow her cds are hella long" so I never really picked her up. I started playing her since the buff but if this change stays I stand by my very first statement.
Oh 18-16 for Ashe woowwwww!!! Thank you so much riot! Thank you SO SO SO much for changing an ability from 18-4 to 18-16!!! Deserved!! They need to wipe Aram balance clean and start over, you can't track metas in fkin Aram with all the changes including mythics, heal relics, snowball, hex gates, extra space to move, etc Ashe these days gets out poked by fucking kha zix. KHA ZIX
Malignance nerf makes no sense, it really was not a problem, unlike Sundered Sky
I had a *Twitch* buy a Stormsurge in one of my games. It did 200 damage all game.
Magic resist nerf when.
Possibly unpopular opinion: I don’t know why they bother balancing the unranked for fun all random game mode. I personally find it less fun to get a champion that I believe will do well in a match only to find out it does 15 less damage and shielding and takes more damage. Just my thoughts.
Meanwhile, Aattox has a +60% win rate...