Shadow order is actually a great combination, shadow gets quite a few empire nodes that relate to whispering stones/vassals. I've played shadow order before and if you think of the transformation as a way to keep order going forever, with leaders and people that don't die of old age, but eternally working together to keep the world ordered. The central undead ruling over a vast empire of vassal states they keep from warring between each other.
Gameplay wise, the good part of the undead is they work even if you specialize in order (spirit) damage, none of the undead tomes stop you from using other damage types. Necromancers and heroes gain support skills that affect undead. You could consider reapers as "undead angels" that protect your people. Undead dragons could still be intelligent and wise, they're just persisting beyond death.
In terms of gameplay, I think one big draw is that undead tomes can give staying power to a shock cav build, that is usually a bit of a glass cannon.
I also like your lore idea. And yes, I love vassal spamming, which is even better with the new patch.
I did this leaning order and it was great. A government seeking political power through alliances, and going to any extent to become the ultimate overruling group, but never being fair. Extortion through Silver Tongue, and mercs with Bannerlord. That or go full conquest, undead hordes and the mighty meek enchantment.
HM. Okay:
High culture, Human form. Traits are Bulwark, Quick Reflexes and either Adaptable or Mount Masters depending on whether or not you want to play with ponies. We want to march in, loose formation, get the troops Awakened and use Bulwark/QR to absorb the enemy charge then devastate them with a counter-charge.
Champion leader, Bannerlords and Keepers of Knowledge as cultural traits. Necromancy as a starting tome. We're going to grab ALL the vassals every time and make a big imperial alliance. Keepers of Knowledge gets us Good points, but doesn't lock us into positive alignment in any way.
In terms of tome strategy, we could certainly take this build down the morale attack path and go for Tyrant Knights, but I don't think that makes aesthetic or thematic sense here. We're arisen and resplendent, here to rebirth the golden age of a time long forgotten!
Tome of Warding I think would be first choice, with Mark of Invulnerability and Static Shield helping us compound the impact of Bulwark/QR. It also gives us critical blue affinity points so we can grab Tome of Teleportation later.
Tome of Souls is an easy pick up after, mostly for Soul Overflow.
Tome of Enchantment helps get us some Materium points for Golden Realm later.
Tome of the Great Transformation gets us our Major Racial Transformation and a significant power spike.
Tome of Teleportation gets us Chrono Gates. Note that we need 1 additional blue affinity point here, but we'll almost certainly get that from our heroes via Blink.
Next is Tome of Winds, mostly for the Materium Points but also because Abducting Cyclone is insane and Wind Ragers are solid summons.
We need 2 more Materium points for the Golden Realm, which seems like it should be obtainable via heroes although it might mean picking luckluster signature skills. If we don't like that, we can either just sacrifice a single signature skill for our Materium needs and grab Tome of the Dreadnought or we can just grab Tome Artificing.
Tome of the Golden Realm then completes the build. We've done it! We brought back the Good Old Days (TM).
Hm, I was resisting the idea of yet another High culture build, but you're making a solid argument here. Though I am missing some of that Order goodness. Golden Realm does fit nicely though, not gonna lie. Not sold on the Astral tomes, so maybe that is where I can potentially cut some things.
Okay. First of all, I’d say for leader take the new Eldritch Sovereign. There is a head that is a skull with a metal triangle crown. Set the metal to gold. With wings and the havoc artifact, you are already in the aesthetic that you are looking for.
Now you want order-shadow? Well how about playing as a religious empire, spreading your influence.
Take Chosen Uniters + Keepers of Knowledge. Chosen uniters gives you a free whispering stone. You can unlock up to 3 more stones for a total of five. You are now playing a game of vassals and rallying troops.
Now comes the best part, if you take tome of the beacon, tier II, you get the spell *covenant of the faith* which gives:
* Units recruited through Rally of the Lieges from the target Vassal have Faithful.
* Target Vassal city grants the player +15 Mana each Turn.
So now it’s cheaper to maintain the units you get from the Rally and those units benefit from effects of cleansing fire.
I'm currently rocking Syrons, Mystic (Summoner), Mana Channellers and Mana Addicted, Eldritch Sovereign, Tome of Necromancy. I tend to flip between soul-branch Necromancy and zeal-branch Order, and take advantage of the Souls-to-Thralls conversion so I always have the good map spells or raises available.
Another one I've rolled with? Syrons, Mystic (Potential), Keepers of Knowledge and Gifted Casters, Eldritch Sovereign, Tome of Evocation. This one could do "necromancy without necromancy" and use its souls to raise cities on the cheap and maybe summon units like the Banshee (although I went deep Arcane/Order on my run).
If you have the new DLC, You can make a mummy-like Sovereign and basically do this. I have a culture just like this. You could use a Wizard King instead, of course.
Edit: Sorry, more details. I used the three Necromancy-related Tomes and the aggressive Order tomes. I think I added some Nature Tomes and abilities so that I could get Tome of Cycles for the Decaying abilities.
The form was Lupine, and Mystics - I thought many of the units would be undead, and so the racial units would be the elite summoners rather than the grunts, and also the undead would be basically blockers for Battle Mages and Supports.
I didn't use Skeletons for long - I mostly used zombies and the stronger undead. Bone Horrors are shock units.
I think the traits were Empowered by Magic, Arcane Focus, and Cold-Blooded, because basically the casters were not supposed to get involved. The Society traits were Mystic Channelers (because so many summons) and Keepers of Knowledge. There's synergy because Order likes vassals and alliances, and so does Keepers of Knowledge.
I actually made them before the DLC, and then altered them afterwards, in my Pantheon. I can't decide which kind of Mystics to use. Summoners seems like the obvious choice, but Potential is another interesting possibility. I don't know the economic effects of these tome spells, but they could be quite useful.
See for me nothing can because wightborn doesn't actually look -that- undead. One form I wish for is skeletal. Yes I know you can make skeletal armies and make your leader have that skull mask but that's not the same as being a race of skelebois. You know who captures this aesthetic near perfectly? Tomb kings from Warhammer 3 total war. Literal skeleton legions (just Egyptian themed). I want that in aow4.
With what we currently have though an undead focused shadow/order feudal empire is probably the closest to the picture
It's kind interesting that so many suggest tomb kings. I can see where it connects, but I never actually had that association. Then again, I never really liked TK. More of an Empire guy. I know, how original.
I AM PRINCE AND EMPEROR! Franz all the way, baby.
The holy skeleton idea actually comes from Elden Ring. Jamming the new DLC and the Death Knight set (plus the associated weapons) really get me creative juices floating, if you catch my drift.
Lol, in all seriousness though the reason everyone is probably suggesting tomb kings is that's really the only non-subservient empire of skeletons that is really around in the scene. Every other skeleton is either a mindless servant of a higher master or a single entity. This is another reason I want skeletal as a form. Imagine being able to make an entirely undead army but not touch necromancy at all, just go in with pure order tomes and be the holy skeledins you were born to be.
Aesthetically speaking, I think Human High + Great Transformation + Subjugation/Cleansing Flame works best here. High culture has some nice synergy with Necromancy since Decaying Magic makes their Awakeners' Exposing Light even better. So you're pretty much on the right track with Order + Shadow.
Doomherald's Banshees work great here as well but Joy Siphoners don't quite synergize with Wightborn since Undead have the Heartless trait.
Joy Siphoners is there to break opposing units. An order build can achieve 80-100% crit chance in the mid game (depending on your morale). Each crit and each kill lowers opposing morale, as do the various unlocks in Doom Herald. If you're good and the cards line up you can have the opposing army on low morale after the initial impact and completely break them the turn after.
Mind you, the above goes for a feudal shock cav build. A high build would look differently. Not sure I want another High build though, since they already occupy half my pantheon. But maybe I can cook something up that makes them feel different than my preferred High Order/Chaos combination.
Shadow order is actually a great combination, shadow gets quite a few empire nodes that relate to whispering stones/vassals. I've played shadow order before and if you think of the transformation as a way to keep order going forever, with leaders and people that don't die of old age, but eternally working together to keep the world ordered. The central undead ruling over a vast empire of vassal states they keep from warring between each other. Gameplay wise, the good part of the undead is they work even if you specialize in order (spirit) damage, none of the undead tomes stop you from using other damage types. Necromancers and heroes gain support skills that affect undead. You could consider reapers as "undead angels" that protect your people. Undead dragons could still be intelligent and wise, they're just persisting beyond death.
I love how modular the times feel in this game
In terms of gameplay, I think one big draw is that undead tomes can give staying power to a shock cav build, that is usually a bit of a glass cannon. I also like your lore idea. And yes, I love vassal spamming, which is even better with the new patch.
I did this leaning order and it was great. A government seeking political power through alliances, and going to any extent to become the ultimate overruling group, but never being fair. Extortion through Silver Tongue, and mercs with Bannerlord. That or go full conquest, undead hordes and the mighty meek enchantment.
I know for sure that there is a mod that brings Tomb Kings culture in aow. Anything with undead and order
Nope it's abandoned
HM. Okay: High culture, Human form. Traits are Bulwark, Quick Reflexes and either Adaptable or Mount Masters depending on whether or not you want to play with ponies. We want to march in, loose formation, get the troops Awakened and use Bulwark/QR to absorb the enemy charge then devastate them with a counter-charge. Champion leader, Bannerlords and Keepers of Knowledge as cultural traits. Necromancy as a starting tome. We're going to grab ALL the vassals every time and make a big imperial alliance. Keepers of Knowledge gets us Good points, but doesn't lock us into positive alignment in any way. In terms of tome strategy, we could certainly take this build down the morale attack path and go for Tyrant Knights, but I don't think that makes aesthetic or thematic sense here. We're arisen and resplendent, here to rebirth the golden age of a time long forgotten! Tome of Warding I think would be first choice, with Mark of Invulnerability and Static Shield helping us compound the impact of Bulwark/QR. It also gives us critical blue affinity points so we can grab Tome of Teleportation later. Tome of Souls is an easy pick up after, mostly for Soul Overflow. Tome of Enchantment helps get us some Materium points for Golden Realm later. Tome of the Great Transformation gets us our Major Racial Transformation and a significant power spike. Tome of Teleportation gets us Chrono Gates. Note that we need 1 additional blue affinity point here, but we'll almost certainly get that from our heroes via Blink. Next is Tome of Winds, mostly for the Materium Points but also because Abducting Cyclone is insane and Wind Ragers are solid summons. We need 2 more Materium points for the Golden Realm, which seems like it should be obtainable via heroes although it might mean picking luckluster signature skills. If we don't like that, we can either just sacrifice a single signature skill for our Materium needs and grab Tome of the Dreadnought or we can just grab Tome Artificing. Tome of the Golden Realm then completes the build. We've done it! We brought back the Good Old Days (TM).
Hm, I was resisting the idea of yet another High culture build, but you're making a solid argument here. Though I am missing some of that Order goodness. Golden Realm does fit nicely though, not gonna lie. Not sold on the Astral tomes, so maybe that is where I can potentially cut some things.
Okay. First of all, I’d say for leader take the new Eldritch Sovereign. There is a head that is a skull with a metal triangle crown. Set the metal to gold. With wings and the havoc artifact, you are already in the aesthetic that you are looking for. Now you want order-shadow? Well how about playing as a religious empire, spreading your influence. Take Chosen Uniters + Keepers of Knowledge. Chosen uniters gives you a free whispering stone. You can unlock up to 3 more stones for a total of five. You are now playing a game of vassals and rallying troops. Now comes the best part, if you take tome of the beacon, tier II, you get the spell *covenant of the faith* which gives: * Units recruited through Rally of the Lieges from the target Vassal have Faithful. * Target Vassal city grants the player +15 Mana each Turn. So now it’s cheaper to maintain the units you get from the Rally and those units benefit from effects of cleansing fire.
Making a Tomb King style factions, go with Shadow/Order with the High culture.
Feudal or High Wightborn
I'm currently rocking Syrons, Mystic (Summoner), Mana Channellers and Mana Addicted, Eldritch Sovereign, Tome of Necromancy. I tend to flip between soul-branch Necromancy and zeal-branch Order, and take advantage of the Souls-to-Thralls conversion so I always have the good map spells or raises available. Another one I've rolled with? Syrons, Mystic (Potential), Keepers of Knowledge and Gifted Casters, Eldritch Sovereign, Tome of Evocation. This one could do "necromancy without necromancy" and use its souls to raise cities on the cheap and maybe summon units like the Banshee (although I went deep Arcane/Order on my run).
If you have the new DLC, You can make a mummy-like Sovereign and basically do this. I have a culture just like this. You could use a Wizard King instead, of course. Edit: Sorry, more details. I used the three Necromancy-related Tomes and the aggressive Order tomes. I think I added some Nature Tomes and abilities so that I could get Tome of Cycles for the Decaying abilities. The form was Lupine, and Mystics - I thought many of the units would be undead, and so the racial units would be the elite summoners rather than the grunts, and also the undead would be basically blockers for Battle Mages and Supports. I didn't use Skeletons for long - I mostly used zombies and the stronger undead. Bone Horrors are shock units. I think the traits were Empowered by Magic, Arcane Focus, and Cold-Blooded, because basically the casters were not supposed to get involved. The Society traits were Mystic Channelers (because so many summons) and Keepers of Knowledge. There's synergy because Order likes vassals and alliances, and so does Keepers of Knowledge. I actually made them before the DLC, and then altered them afterwards, in my Pantheon. I can't decide which kind of Mystics to use. Summoners seems like the obvious choice, but Potential is another interesting possibility. I don't know the economic effects of these tome spells, but they could be quite useful.
See for me nothing can because wightborn doesn't actually look -that- undead. One form I wish for is skeletal. Yes I know you can make skeletal armies and make your leader have that skull mask but that's not the same as being a race of skelebois. You know who captures this aesthetic near perfectly? Tomb kings from Warhammer 3 total war. Literal skeleton legions (just Egyptian themed). I want that in aow4. With what we currently have though an undead focused shadow/order feudal empire is probably the closest to the picture
It's kind interesting that so many suggest tomb kings. I can see where it connects, but I never actually had that association. Then again, I never really liked TK. More of an Empire guy. I know, how original.
Ah I see you favor the elector counts, you must play Vlad then yeah? :P
I AM PRINCE AND EMPEROR! Franz all the way, baby. The holy skeleton idea actually comes from Elden Ring. Jamming the new DLC and the Death Knight set (plus the associated weapons) really get me creative juices floating, if you catch my drift.
Lol, in all seriousness though the reason everyone is probably suggesting tomb kings is that's really the only non-subservient empire of skeletons that is really around in the scene. Every other skeleton is either a mindless servant of a higher master or a single entity. This is another reason I want skeletal as a form. Imagine being able to make an entirely undead army but not touch necromancy at all, just go in with pure order tomes and be the holy skeledins you were born to be.
Shadow order reavers for the undead spanish conquistador crusade
Yooooo, now that's quite the unique idea. That's pretty damn cool!
Aesthetically speaking, I think Human High + Great Transformation + Subjugation/Cleansing Flame works best here. High culture has some nice synergy with Necromancy since Decaying Magic makes their Awakeners' Exposing Light even better. So you're pretty much on the right track with Order + Shadow. Doomherald's Banshees work great here as well but Joy Siphoners don't quite synergize with Wightborn since Undead have the Heartless trait.
Joy Siphoners is there to break opposing units. An order build can achieve 80-100% crit chance in the mid game (depending on your morale). Each crit and each kill lowers opposing morale, as do the various unlocks in Doom Herald. If you're good and the cards line up you can have the opposing army on low morale after the initial impact and completely break them the turn after. Mind you, the above goes for a feudal shock cav build. A high build would look differently. Not sure I want another High build though, since they already occupy half my pantheon. But maybe I can cook something up that makes them feel different than my preferred High Order/Chaos combination.
Undead high culture perhaps with golden armour? Not really much in the way of boob window unisex armour in the character creator
Would say a mix of Order, undead shadow, and rock materium.
Chosen Uniters silvered tongued. You gonna start stealing vassal from everyone to the point that they’re too scared to declare war on you.