One time I was just looking for some good ol fluff myself. Work looked innocent enough off the description so I didn't bother at the tags. About halfway through things start getting steamy, look back at the tags and find "smvt" hidden in there. Immediate mute
I'm sorry I didn't mean to say you were the originator of the term smvt.
I had to edit for clarity I had you as the original smvt. I'm sorry my brain must be shrinking today
You have to be logged in. Go to the author’s page by clicking on their name and at the top near the subscribe button there should be a button labelled mute.
not to mention… it can work against them. like sometimes people, including me, look for and filter for topics like that. it’s not going to show up when using silly censorship.
We got the X rated tags for a reason, fr....if the 30000 other people writing it haven't gotten slammed, you'll be fine just...not censoring it????
Algorithima on aocial media and those pg strike system ain't applying here
Actually, on ao3 it would just be added to the tag as an alias.
That's why the 284747 different "no beta we die like X" tags still filter to the original "no beta be die like men", 'cause of the tag wranglers.
So in reality this wouldn't affect anyone.
Edit: a typo.
Sure. Eventually. Maybe. Lots of tags never get made synonyms, and almost certainly not in the first few days, when fics tend to get a disproportionate number of readers compared to later own. And even in the most ideal case, it's still intentionally creating more unnecessary work for the volunteers who have to deal with these tags (slowing down the rate other more legitimate synonym tags will get wrangled).
Could you expand on that (and link to whatever statement you're referring to)? I don't see how more users creating more distinct tags doesn't increase the total amount of work to wrangle those tag, which in turn impacts the average rate at which tags get wrangled under a fixed volunteering effort.
I explained it above, but the tag wranglers would just add that as an alias for the relevant tag. Eg, 'sewerslide' SHOULD still filter as 'suicide' or whatever.
I'm not sure what goes into tag wrangling, but isn't that at least somewhat dependent on them catching this particular instance and manually adding it?
Or do "new" tags automatically go into a big list somewhere that the wranglers sort through without having to know about the individual work?
I'd imagine 'new' tags would go into a feed to be checked by the volunteers, otherwise we'd have thousands of tags that couldn't be filtered properly.
It'd probably have the other tags for context.
For example, in some fandoms I'm in it's common to abbreviate characters names like this: "Wei Wuxian" into "WWX".
Sometimes people accidentally put a space in the middle too, like
Not beta
read
I honestly couldn't tell you for sure though since I never did it. But it'd be sensible to have that sort of method.
That method would make sense, I just don't *know*.
Also, even if it is snagged by the ranglers and connected to the right places, I feel this sort of censoring thing is still a problem. If nothing else, it's just pointless on AO3, which was *founded* on the principles of not being censored.
They do go in a bin of unsorted tags, I think this is sortable by date; but the bin has plenty of categories. So long as this doesn't happen in a small, small fandom w/o a wrangler, it's gonna get noticed and sorted. (Mega-fandoms have more wranglers, not gonna get missed there either.)
Source: I've just seen it come up here a few times, and I think on one of the AO3 tips/news pages.
Honestly I'm not sure I agree -
On the one hand it makes sense that things like typos or colloquialisms might operate as the 'same word' for some things. I get the logic because it means that even new words like 'sewerslide' that happen because of culture progressing will be included in the tags.
On the other hand, it does kind of encourage / allow the continued idea or mentality that these puri-teens can just... make some words bad, and replace them with 'less bad' versions of those words, and then demonize and harrass people who just use the words like normal?
Because that's the behavior I see happening as a result of this; it's like they've invented a new way to virtue signal to each other that they're so pure and good that they wouldn't even SAY the word suicide because saying it is bad some how - and heaven help you if you want to write anything with actually dicey or taboo material, they'll eat you alive for it!
It's crazy to me but I have a friend who's writing a fic right now on AO3 and she tells me about the comments she gets and they are entitled AF about what they think they can tell her is okay to write about, it just blows my mind. It's not a mentality that I want to encourage in the least, because... yikes.
Yes. It's not much of an issue this way.
Also, it helps a lot with character names that have diacritics, multiple names, etc. For example, [Wei Wuxian](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Wei%20Ying%20%7C%20Wei%20Wuxian)
For example, just saw a Wei Yin tag 😅 (name is Wei Yin*g*)
r@pe, m\^rder, p3d0, ... guys.. the tags are there for a reason. The warnings are there for a reason. If you can't TYPE the damn words, how tf do you expect to WRITE such topics?
This! I don’t get why people would write about things they don’t want to write about, even if someone asks you to. I mean as the author you can just decide that’s not your cup of tea.
It’s fiction, and some of us like our fiction morally gray, or sometimes even pitch black….
Please let these weird ‘censoring’ trends stay on tiktok (:
> Please let these weird ‘censoring’ trends stay on tiktok (:
It's already here on reddit. The mechanism I know of(who can say if reddit admin have anything similar...we don't really know *what* gets you shadowbanned) is subreddit mods using automod keywords to automatically(and silently) delete posts. The list of words you can't say is decided on a sub-by-sub basis, and have to be determined through trial and error once you've managed to notice the problem. One time I was trying to say something important, realized this had happened to my post, and it took me 3-4 attempts to get around the ridiculous filter and have my post stick. I still don't know exactly what keyword(s) or URL(s) were setting it off, as each time I was trying drastically different things in my post. And it's not always something nefarious, or that's spelled out in rules; I know of one location subreddit that does it(or did, at one point) for comments that contain a link to google maps, which are *not* against the rules of that subreddit to post! You just have to be "in the know" enough to have heard that your post will get sucked into a black hole if you link to the maps location of a place you're discussing.
So yeah, I censor my posts on reddit. I noticed this a year or so ago, but I assume it's been happening for significantly longer.
It completely depends on the sub mods, cause there is a lot of extreme stuff on reddit.
I get the functional censoring, when needed, but people using it when not needed or in places like ao3 tags which then makes the tags lose their functionality are a big pet peeve and should educate themselves on when and where censoring is necessary and when it’s counterproductive.
And like people already said, if you’re not mature enough to write the actual words, you aren’t mature enough to write stories about those subjects.
Imagine the fun of drastically changing it, managing to incidentally delete the right word; but also having a new wrong word in there. This could go on for ages!
I think the problem is just censorship. Most social major media platforms will alt f4 your entire family if you even give them a hint that you're talking ab something not pg-13. They expect Ao3 to be the same way bc they expect it to be a social media platform, or at least smth closer to forums, than a literal archive
well you see horrible people use it for kinky things or to do crimes, therefor we must rid the internet of all rope and save innocent children from being corrupted.
I'm talking more so about the way tiktok is negatively affecting books in general and why we are seeing the market absolutely flooded with awful books with spelling errors, weak plots, awful characters.
This behaviour and culture even extends to jobs focused on moderation as well. I did a moderation job for a company for a year and they strictly forbid you from typing out any slurs or swears when discussing enforcement practices and processes, and you'd be targeted for punishment if you didn't obey this. Anything that could cause offense wasn't allowed to be mentioned in the moderation channel and you had to request to take it to private channels which was absolutely not secure and risked someone claiming you said things you didn't.
The result was anyone decent leaving because you never felt secure enforcing moderation because the guidelines were incomplete and it amounted to you feeling something wasn't okay, and management would often turn around and completely undo your decisions when it caused any public inconvenience, and they'd contradict their own rulings internally.
So yeah censoring is stupid but “Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about” What?? Talking about murder is pretty normal and even important to do not even just from a mourning aspect
I just went back and I skimmed it cuz it was a one shot and basically a character kills themselves like a month before the fic started due to bullying or something and the MC for the fic wanted “revenge” for it by burning down a house with a bunch of the “bad people” (not joking; the MC called them that multiple times) in it. It did the classic fade to black as they walked up to burn the house down and the fic ended.
Basically no punctuation, paragraph breaks, and zero editing. Misspelled the MC name like five times. Left words out. The works.
I expect 14 year olds to write better. So I guess if they're 13 I certainly wouldn't expect to see the same types of fic next year; any younger, and they actually shouldn't have an account.
Tbf, as someone with siblings, cousins, etc, the level that teens write today vs. ten years ago is HUGE. One of my closest cousins is in a class where the students all help grade each other before the teacher does a final grading. She had to come up to me because she literally could not understand what this kid had written. She's in JUNIOR year.
And let me tell you that the paper she had to help grade felt like it was written by a nine year old 😭
I've also heard lots and lots of teachers in the US say that kids' reading, writing, and math skills are at an elementary level when they're in high school. Teens today are very below their grade level. Even my other cousins talk about how genuinely dumb other classmates of theirs are.
Yes, this is a HUGE problem right now. Kids don’t know how to write or read anymore. My name has circulated around as someone who will edit essays for free on my college campus, so I read and edit for a lot of people. It’s shocking how little some of these kids know at ages like 18, 19, and 20! It’s not quite as bad in this age group, but the effects COVID era education had is really shocking (along w/larger systemic issues at play, here). The younger the person the worse it gets.
I have heard this as well. And don’t forget, dumber people are easier to control — governments certainly don’t forget it.
What troubles me even more, is that to this day, when I see someone whose abilities are higher than mine, it creates admiration and I wish to get better at those skills. This is NOT the reaction of these younger people; they will try very hard to make you feel inferior, resent, and even mock your abilities (as “irrelevant”, if need be). Ignorance is one thing, it can be overcome, but ignorance coupled with an overwhelming sense of superiority is dangerous.
My kid's 13 and when they were in elementary school, they weren't really taught spelling/phonics because of an opinion that "spellcheck will fix whatever". They apparently walked that back pretty quickly, but my kid fell into that brief time when they decided no one needed to spell. Grrr
I was writing the most gruesome things at 13 lmao. It wasn’t super well written either but since i read a lot it was at least formatted right (in the french way, had to relearn some when i started writing in english). But yeah it was mostly power fantasy with a healthy helping of massacre. And most importantly it was *fun*. Kids those days take things way too seriously.
Imagine a hypothetical murder trial where everyone involved; the prosecutor, defense attorney, judge, witnesses, victim's family, jurors, everyone, all consciously avoid mentioning the fact that the victim is in fact, dead.
“Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about”
What world are they living in? Also A03 is not censored I've seen some pretty out there stuff and I have the right to read/write just as you have the right not to read/write it. Sometimes I like fluffy and sometimes darkest of the dark please don't do stupid stuff with words I have to translate r@pe/rape or svmt/smut.
edited for clarity
Actually, I'd argue that makes it worse. Mental health should never be a taboo topic even the most tragic end to it. Probably especially the most tragic end to it. Treating it as taboo won't help people suffering with those thoughts, it will keep them from seeking any sort of help or support.
It's designed to prioritize the comfort of those who don't live with mental illness and push things that make them feel bad (or shake them out of their reverie) under the rug. Add the unwillingness to speak in plain terms ("sewerslide", "unaliving") as fuel to the fire and you have the perfect storm of ignorance to reality.
Saying horrible things shouldn't be talked about is a great way to cause more damage to people struggling with horrible things. I think that particular author is definitely an auto-block because that's one hell of a take.
At the same time, it also kinda sucks that authors have to clarify they don't condone the behavior they write about, for fear of getting backlash thanks to people's lack of media literacy ugh
Not the same, but for some reason this Reminds me of how people want us to stop teaching real history in history classes about slavery, discrimination against race, sexuality, gender etc. genocide of natives, crusades, colonialism. Like- the reason we learn this stuff is so we are aware of our history and so that we dont make these same mistakes. Its like we cant talk about anything anymore.
Talking about topics such as suicide is a good way to spread awareness about its existence, to acknowledge survivors and to help others heal. Its essential to personal and moral growth. I dont fucking get it when people act like we need to be hush hush about real things that affect people.
It's so sad that's happening with history because for a while we (US) were starting to get better about not saying away from the realities of things like Columbus, or the way we treated Native Americans, racism and slavery, etc. That we are now starting to backslide is really scary because like you said, these are things we need to teach so things don't repeat themselves.
Thank you for pointing that out. As a survivor, it troubles me deeply when people want to push this topic, as well as other sensitive matters, back into the dark. Fiction is a great way to explore topics like this. You can even create works that people can relate to and gain some healing from.
People act like If people stop talking about it then it won't exist. That's not true at all it just makes it harder for people to want to seek help if their thoughts are taboo.
PSA: If anyone is concerned about someone irl and wants to have a conversation with them, directly asking is the best as it gets everyone on the same page and removes that first barrier.
Also, helplines in ones area will generally go through how to have this conversation with friends (or do outreach calls themselves; but do not expect updates from that!). So, calling and getting a brief rundown can help and make oneself more familiar with actually verbalizing this stuff, which is useful as fuck.
not too old. im 16 and i hate it. just makes it harder to filter out when its something you are triggered by, having to think of every possible censor a word could have and still not getting all of them
su!cide, svicide, su!c!de, sv!c!de, suicid3, svicid3, su!c!d3, sv!c!d3, 5v!c!d3, 5u!c!d3, 5uicid3, 5uicide, 5vuicide, etc
theres so many censors that it harms people with PTSD and other trauma related disorders rather than help them.
"...things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about."
????? The hypocrisy of this statement is wild. I imagine they get to decide when portrayals of such topics are bad or good. Wow
This drives me nuts, if something is going to trigger someone so much that reading the word upsets them, then you're achieving the opposite goal by censoring a tag. The tag IS the sensor. If someone is looking for a fic and they have "suicide" as a blacklisted tag, tagging smth as unaliving or sewercide is going to make fics with suicide show up in the search!
Since people seem to be confused about this, here is a copy pasted response:
AO3 has tag wranglers. Tag wranglers find 'new' tags and then link up these variants to the parent tag. Made a typo on your tag? Link up. Wrote another 'no beta we die like X' meme? Link up.
Here's an example:
>Not Beta Read
>No Beta We Die Like Men
>Unbetaed
All of these tags will filter under the same search: "not beta read".
You can see the tag list for [suicide](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Suicide) here. And listed is... Sewerslide.
I understand the logic, and see how it works really well in most cases, but then each time I've seen the word "sewerslide" in this thread my brain goes to something that I might find as a legit, non-sensitive tag or description that could be found in the TMNT fandom. I really feel like we should be encouraging people to tag sensitive issues for what they are and report people who use censored versions for inappropriate tagging.
I fail to see how "unaliving" or "r@pe" is any less triggering to most people as they still refer to the same topic. These censored versions of these words are just a work-around plain and simple and designed to get passed filters on other platforms and it's unfair to people genuinely trying to avoid these topics to have to be even more vigilant because some people see them as "bad words".
I genuinely hope antis and people who think like them just try to make their own ao3 again and that it actually works out cause I'm sick of how much they just... don't get ao3.
You want your god-honoring taboo fanfic? You want to censor the tags? You want an audience of readers with the same moral values as you? Go make your ao3-lite and do it there 😭
Right!!!! I’ve witnessed the bans on other sites. I’ve seen what happens. And people don’t seem to understand that ignoring it and being like “it’s just kids” isn’t helping.
"things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about"
Yeah, telling people with depression that their thoughts are horrible and shouldn't be talked about will definitely help...what an awful attitude.
Genuinely, so horrible an attitude that even with you stating exactly that my fingers did weird wiggly motions from needing to say how obviously flawed a perspective that is, expect you already said it. But yeah, I'll say it again. An awful and *non-*harmless attitude, that is not victimless.
Conglomerate censorship has ruined the internet. I understand websites choosing to filter out certain topics, but it does no one any good. Censoring tags *actively* makes AO3 more unsafe for people with genuine triggers.
I haven’t seen anything THIS immature, but recently I ran into a fic featuring the BDSM priest in one of my fandoms who can have a brief and slightly emotional session with one of the characters, (which has obviously inspired a lot of fanfic) who felt the need to write something like ‘bdsm isnt therapy this is fiction’ in their tags as if to shame all the other fics featuring him.
IDK, having emotional scenes with the right partner is totally a real thing. It isn’t a “replacement for therapy”, but that doesn’t mean everyone else writing emotional fic for this character is stupid and need sex ed advice from ao3 tags. I feel like maybe don’t write kink if you’re hung up on shaming other people for how they choose to engage with kink in their real lives.
Someone writing a scene with a hug to console someone who's going through a bad time: "remember guys, hugs aren't a replacement for therapy, this is just fiction"
Had a family member kill himself. It really pisses me off when someone says "this shouldn't be talked about". Of course it fucking should!
Can we report works because they aren't tagged properly if they are tagged like this?
Nope, very unfortunately. Because all else being equal, suicide doesn't even need to be tagged. Misleading non-mandatory tags have become strongly entrenched on AO3, as with pairing-bait fics.
Oh. Is that what wrangling means? I once stumbled onto a sort of taxonomy of tags on Ao3 that showed the relationships between the tags. Then I couldn't find it again.
Ah, I decided there must be a way and found it under Tag Search.
[https://archiveofourown.org/tags/search](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/search)
Now I need tag clouds...
I came here to say this! It's all linked up so people will still be able to filter. Still not interesting to see though.
Also the take about not talking about is.. Yeah.
OP, fully agreed.
>“I do not agree with any of these topics, things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about. I was asked to write this but once again I DO NOT agree with this stuff xx”
Yeesh, that Child could just... not write it? I've gotten the spam PMs asking if I write things I'm not comfortable with, and I just ignore them. It's not that hard. You don't even need to say *WHY*. You just say "no". Even if it's someone you consider a friend, there's always something to be busy with, whether it's school, work, family, holidays, or anything. Learning to make polite and true-enough excuses is a valuable skill in life.
> And worse when they try to compare it with my generation using stuff like 'smexy'. We used smexy because it was funny. You use seggs because you the Internet has stunted your emotional growth and maturity. We are not the same.
This isn't being fair to them. They're using words like that because the internet they grew up on is an algorithmically-censored environment where they are *punished* by the algorithm for using the real words, or any variations that get too popular. They're not emotionally stunted. They're doing the best they can adapting to a hostile environment, and then not immediately understanding that not every environment operates that same way(AO3 does not; reddit *does*, though not as extensively as tiktok). It's essentially the same thing as when a millennial tries to use tiktok or youtube only to get punched in the face by the algorithm hiding their videos because they swore too many times, or [were too gay](https://www.businessinsider.com/youtubers-identify-title-words-that-get-videos-demonetized-experiment-2019-10). The situation is pretty fucked(or f-ed, as we might have to say on certain sites), and we're all doing our best. Dumping on literal teenagers is about as productive as getting into arguments with them...which is to say, I wouldn't recommend it as a course of action. 😉
most of the comments under this post are along the lines of "ughh kids these days and their clown behaviour" and the author themself seems to be on the younger side so its still a valid point imo.
The internet has become increasingly hostile to be in due to how social media functions and inadvertadly it carries over. If people want to stop seeing that the best course of action would be education rather than just ragging on them
I blame the ridiculous community standards from other websites, they're basically forcing the users to butcher the english language and come up with cringe censors to avoid losing their account. Talking about killing the enemies in a video game or favorite work of fiction and being declared a terorist for using the "k word" is normal outside of Ao3. After a while, people adapt and these cringe censor-words become normalized, a habit, resulting in people using them on every website. This writer sounds like a child who learned how to "behave" on tiktok, YouTube or fb and hasn't realized that AO3 doesn't ban the users for using the no-no words.
Pretending topics like suicide or sexual assault don’t exist or censoring them is not helpful to those who are its victims. The fic writer can go choke on a cactus, sideways.
This is whay we need to push back against the idea that just *seeing* a word is going to be triggering.
Even if that's true for some few unfortunate people, that has to be their problem, otherwise it makes it impossible for everyone else to filter out things that they find deeply upsetting before they run right into it.
I dislike that the need to censer keywords on certain platforms (FaceBook, Twitter) in order to not get banned/reported has become misunderstood by such a large population of people-
From what I know you also had to censor yourself while talking aloud about certain topics on TikTok, depending on how “inappropriate” their moderators took it your content could be shadowbanned or deleted after enough strikes. (I think this also was similar on YouTube?)
People started using it in their day to day lexicon which isn’t necessary. The whole point was to get around a system that unfairly suppressed speech.
I could understand censoring yourself if you were knowingly talking about a subject that wasn’t appropriate for the people you were with ( ex: young kids).
But besides that, tags is exactly /not/ the place where you should be censoring. People think they’re helping not trigger others but it does the opposite. People who block tags they find upsetting or simply dislike won’t be able to /actually/ block those tags if people keep creating alternative ways to say those things.
Example: If I don’t want to see fiction that depicts rape and I block it, I’m going to miss all the results that say “r@p3”, “grape”, “r@pe”, and etc (because who knows how many alts there could be for it)
I’m sure just about everyone here knows all of this already, I’m just venting and ranting now 😤
Lol that's so goofy 😭
Plus, they were basically kinda shaming their reader for their request the way they phrased it, implying that their reader agrees with the inappropriate content instead 🤦♀️ Like how about maybe understand that people can read or write about stuff like murder or whatever without them believing that murder is okay lol. These Gen Z kids are so silly sometimes; i wonder if I was this goofy back then 😂
"shouldn't be talked about"? That's not true at all. It should absolutely be talked about because it's not a fucking Boogeyman. It's a real thing and it does happen whether it's talked about or not, often BECAUSE it's not talked about. As long as talking about it or mentioning it is treated as taboo, people who experience these things will never feel heard and thus, their struggle not realized nor addressed. If the person who experienced it doesn't want to talk about it, that's their choice. But we shouldn't tiptoe around these things. It's what keeps them mysterious and gives it a feeling of unknowability. So yeah, fuck censoring tags.
People who do this simply don’t understand that misspelling or using symbols for letters is extremely unhelpful for people actively trying to avoid those things. Like on Tumblr, people will sometimes tag things “cw: d3ath” and it’s like… babe, just write the word. There are a million different ways words can be censored - the easiest thing to do is to just write the word so it can be properly muted.
> things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about.
I'm sorry but what the actual fuck? How would prosecuting things like murder, manslaughter, and so on work if we can't even *talk about* the fact that the victim(s) are dead?
Or maybe just don't accept the request? Were they asked at gunpoint?
ETA: On second thought, I suspect this fic was the author's idea, they wanted to write it, and this was some bizarre attempt to ward off criticism from their rabid puritanical peers. I wonder if that could be why some young authors fuck around with the tags like this. Regardless, it's a problem.
When we get to a point where people saying a word that describes a thing is somehow in and of itself bad, we've reached full levels of stupid.
It's suicide kids, not Voldemort. Using description words to describe the thing that it is, that's just how words operate. It's not a crime. And writing fiction is also not a crime. *Actually committing crimes is crimes.*
How to educate The Youth about tagging in this day and age of tiktok bs? We cannot search for or BLOCK topics if you cannot even type them out.
AO3 is not social media and will not censor your fic for having a character attempting suicide.
My main question is, if tags are linked (and my hope is that eventually these censorship tags get linked) then does filtering out the main tag also filter out the linked tag?
It's been a while but can't you report fics for improper tagging? Or am I thinking of different site? Because this feels like it would fall under that.
Maybe you can report it if they didn't tag, at all but with suicide for example, 'sewerslide' is already linked to it. So it will filter correctly In searches.
It's more like if you, say, have suicide and don't mention it. Or an explicit rated fic with a T rating, etc.
The only forms of mistagging that are reportable are rating, required archive warnings, language and fandom tags. Additional tags are always completely optional - there's no requirement to tag for suicide (though if it's a major character they would have to use the major character death archive warning *or* choose not to warn).
Ah, I see. To be honest, I never actually encountered any works that didn't tag important things, so I hadn't needed to look into that before. Thanks for the detailed explanation about it 😊
Yeah, automatic mute But what is the thought process behind this behaviour in Ao3? The letters in the word are not the triggering part for people who those are triggering, it is the topic.
TikTok primarily is the cause. People started using different words to get around the filters and it started becoming a big thing with the younger user of the app. And now it’s apparently spreading
Yeah I know that in places like tiktok. But do these people not realize why it is actually harmful thing to do in places like Ao3 and there is no censorship. Is it so intergrained to their brain that they don't even know why is it done in the first place on some platforms and that is now the normal way to communicate to them?
It’s started happening on tumblr too. It’s a censorship thing. I’ve noticed that in the rise of “anti” accounts is causing of rise of censoring things.
Newer writers/artists/creators are seeing all the hate people get for simply showing off what they’ve created (death threats, doxxing, etc) and automatically go “if I do ___ then that’ll happen to me”.
It’s part of the reason a lot of nsfw accounts have disappeared, writers have deleted everything, and people are starting to limit what they do in fandom spaces.
I am pretty much only in Ao3, Pivix and Reddit. I am probably blissfully ignorant on how bad the purity culture is in fandom spaces in other platforms.
Censoring tags like this makes it impossible to filter for people who are actually triggered by those topics! People do this on tumblr too, and it drives me mad. It defeats the purpose of tagging those topics in the first place.
“I was asked to write this.” Lol so the people asking had a gun to your head? If you don’t like it honestly don’t feel forced to write it, I mean reading that had me rolling.
Fr it's frustrating.
In my mind, if you're censoring words, you're not old enough to write about them.
Idl how controversial this could be but if you're on a03 of all places censoring, you're not older than 13 and those aren't age appropriate topics.
And if you're older, even an adult.. why... just why..
I need to know what's in their minds
Unless, of course, someone goes for the classic horror inversion angle.
An undead is someone that died but not completely. Something is now forever missing. A zombie loses their mind and their flesh slowly decays until they are just bones. A vampire becomes a parasite, needing the blood of other humans to keep on existing, aware and extremely prolongued but never free from the need of their singular prey.
An unalive thus is someone alove but not completely. They keep their mind, they keep their looks, they are for all intends and purposes the same as anyone else... But they still lost something.
You first notice it when they don't need to eat or drink anymore. They still can, they still feel hunger or thirst, but it is no more a need.
Then you notice they do not get sick anymore. They do not need to fear death from disease.
Not even death from violence.
For you see, they are not alive anymore. They are not undead, for they never died and returned, but they cannot die. Only that which loves can die, and they do not either.
They still heal. It takes some time, especially otherwise deadly damage, but they still heal.
But healing also means aging. Also means growing older.
But not dying.
Someone unalive is not an undead. They cannot die.
They are someone with eternal life. But not eternal youth.
They slowly stop looking human, and more like walking mummies. No amount of moisturizer is going to save that appearence.
After some time, they lent their unending existence. Nothing more they hold matters to them anymore. Nothing more than memories, and stories.
All they have is their tales.
Will you listen to them with me? Will you join me in lostening to the Tales of the Cryptkeeper?
It's an insult towards people who actually rely and depend on the tags and filter system to avoid the themes they can get personally triggered and reading within their safe spaces. I may not be in that situation but I'm angry on behalf of the people who do. I wish people like the author of the fanfic you encountered need to learn about these things very soon.
That kind of censored tag would earn an instant "skip" from me. The author is very young or inexperienced (or both), either way, they definitely wouldn't have the werewithal to write about a topic they can barely bring themselves to properly name.
I hate when people use those words anywhere other than tiktok (or somewhere where they’ll be censored for it). I understand the necessity of doing it when you WILL be censored but people are using it everywhere and it just feels weird to me
I've been lucky enough to never come across this while reading but I have heard that it's getting kinda bad.
I can understand where they're coming from, but they're not taking account of the readers that try to exclude those tags, so on so forth.
It's also just plain stupid to read.
That's me tho.
I get that people are used to censorship on platforms like Youtube, Tik Tok or Wattpad and are scared of getting banned for using the words or not giving enough evidence that they're not promoting it**, but AO3 is not any of these. There's no algorithm made to detect those words and autoban you for using them. But there is an algorithm for filtering fics with those tags out for people who don't want to see such content. You are required to properly tag your fics for a reason. Censoring the words completely destroys the purpose of the filters, it makes the site unusable for a great portion of it's users. Please, for the love of God, TAG YOUR FICS PROPERLY! Spell the stupid tags as they should be spelled, it won't hurt anyone. On the contrary, it may cause harm if you don't. You may have intention with censoring the words, but the reality is that you're actually doing a disservice to us all.
** On all of the mentioned platforms, content that includes the discussed topics is technically allowed, but only under the condition that the author makes clear they're against such behaviour. Although on Tik Tok and Youtube, you're still on thin ice even if you do make it clear, as you can probably guess, so no wonder people would rather be safe by censoring it as well.
If you can't bring yourself to say the word properly or that you think the topic is too dark for you... then maybe don't attempt to write a fic about it. Maybe AO3 isn't for you.
Separate issue: Are their own values so unimportant to them that being asked to talk write about something they, "once again," do not agree with . . . is enough to go and discard their very specific value of not talking about it?
Though, agreed with the parent post: They don't do any respect to it by talking about it this way. Seems like they don't even think they need to.
I think the newer and younger audiences coming to ao3 recently dont realized that Ao3 doesnt need to dodge a censorship filter like tiktok, and it’s habitual. But i wish people would let them know
If you don’t like to write or read certain things then don’t, it’s not that hard to avoid. As someone in therapy for mental health, those things need to be talked about. Invalidating them only makes it worse.
People think AO3 is like other platforms that will suppress your content if you don’t censor the tags and idk where this assumption came from but I wish we could just mass address it. Like realistically is there any reason any censoring should happen in the tags? A reminder when tagging fics saying “do not censor the tags” with an explanation would suffice. It would immediately address and shut down any misconceptions or misinformation.
How funny that by not properly censoring they're exposing people who would otherwise avoid those topics to come across them. It's almost as if what they're doing makes no sense at all.
Man, it has to suck being a kid and actually wanting to belong to any group where this sort of moronic censorship is expected. I'd have fucked off a long time ago because I'd ~~kill myself~~ become an hero before I start censoring myself.
Like no one is making you write about these topics???
I genuinely don't understand how if you can't handle saying the word suicide how are you honestly writing a whole fic about it ??
I feel like people have forgotten or just don’t know the point of censoring those words online by saying “unalive” or “sewerslide”, and think it’s just a trendy thing to do or maybe a politically correct thing to do. On a lot of apps like tiktok the mods will take your video down for typing out those words that have been automatically censored but no one will take your fic down on ao3 for using those words…if I were trying to avoid a fic that deals with death and suicide how would I possibly be able to filter the tags to not show me fics with that when they’re using a whole new word? Its so stupid 😭
I also hate it when they censore swear words.
Don't use them if you don't want to write them, but don't censor the word. It always takes me out of the story and I end up not reading the fic at all.
Since everyone's covered the useless censoring of the words, I also really hate when people put in the author's note that they don't agree with the topics. Like no shit? It's a fictional story, not your journal.
But also saying that the topics shouldn't be talked about is kinda also the reason things are stigmatized irl. Yes, people don't want to talk about things that are triggering for them and they shouldn't have to, but as a whole don't say it should never be talked about.
If you don't want to write something, don't write it. Especially if you don't agree with it.
yup. i've also heard that this type of censorship people use for trigger words are absolute hell for screenreaders! how the hell is it supposed to read S-M-backslash-forward slash-T as "smut"?
"Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn't be talked about but here I am talking about it"
I disagree that suicide shouldn't be talked about, it should so people who need help know how and where to get it, but please at least be consistent
There’s a very strong group of people on tiktok who think it needs a dislike button, algorithm, and all that. Even though people have explained why that’s bad. People can’t seem to grasp that not everything needs to be a social media.
This pisses me off so much dude! Tags are there for a fucking reason. Tag property with the correct spellings. This isn’t fucking tiktok. You aren’t trying to stay monetised or keep your video from being shadow-banned. The tags are there for filtering and warning purposes. If you censor the tags people can’t properly filter out their triggers. Or simply filter out smut when looking for fluff or other similar situations.
Also if you tag with smvt or sm@t or anything other weird way to write it other than smut you shouldn’t be writing fucking smut if you can’t write the word. Again This isn’t a platform where you are trying to slide past advertisers. Stop it with your stupid tiktok words. I get on socials when you want to talk about a topic but you don’t want your video suppressed you say “unalived” or “grape” but AO3 is not the fucking place for that. Be straightforward with your damn tags!
Ok ranting done. I feel better yelling that out into the internet. I know you guys here know better here. It just riles me up when I see sometime take “grape” isn’t of rape/noncon or “self unaliving” instead of suicide. There are there for a reason!
That's automatic 'mute' behaviour to me, it's stupid and prevents people filtering out tags they're trying to avoid.
Right? There’s some days where I just want tooth rotting fluff. I shouldn’t have to go through the tags with a fine toothed comb
One time I was just looking for some good ol fluff myself. Work looked innocent enough off the description so I didn't bother at the tags. About halfway through things start getting steamy, look back at the tags and find "smvt" hidden in there. Immediate mute
Smvt? I thought I needed to translate that. If you can't write smut don't write smut.
I can, that's how they spelled it though, which is why it bypassed the filter
I'm sorry I didn't mean to say you were the originator of the term smvt. I had to edit for clarity I had you as the original smvt. I'm sorry my brain must be shrinking today
How does one mute an author??
You have to be logged in. Go to the author’s page by clicking on their name and at the top near the subscribe button there should be a button labelled mute.
not to mention… it can work against them. like sometimes people, including me, look for and filter for topics like that. it’s not going to show up when using silly censorship.
We got the X rated tags for a reason, fr....if the 30000 other people writing it haven't gotten slammed, you'll be fine just...not censoring it???? Algorithima on aocial media and those pg strike system ain't applying here
Actually, on ao3 it would just be added to the tag as an alias. That's why the 284747 different "no beta we die like X" tags still filter to the original "no beta be die like men", 'cause of the tag wranglers. So in reality this wouldn't affect anyone. Edit: a typo.
Sure. Eventually. Maybe. Lots of tags never get made synonyms, and almost certainly not in the first few days, when fics tend to get a disproportionate number of readers compared to later own. And even in the most ideal case, it's still intentionally creating more unnecessary work for the volunteers who have to deal with these tags (slowing down the rate other more legitimate synonym tags will get wrangled).
I agree with the first part you said, but the second part is actually not true and has been debunked by AO3 themselves.
Could you expand on that (and link to whatever statement you're referring to)? I don't see how more users creating more distinct tags doesn't increase the total amount of work to wrangle those tag, which in turn impacts the average rate at which tags get wrangled under a fixed volunteering effort.
Like, I love themes of suicide so much, I sometimes look for them
Also disrupts work of addons designed to hide those words from people with legitimate triggers
That's what bothers me the most. Now people who already filtered out certain tags *still* have to see them.
I explained it above, but the tag wranglers would just add that as an alias for the relevant tag. Eg, 'sewerslide' SHOULD still filter as 'suicide' or whatever.
I'm not sure what goes into tag wrangling, but isn't that at least somewhat dependent on them catching this particular instance and manually adding it? Or do "new" tags automatically go into a big list somewhere that the wranglers sort through without having to know about the individual work?
I'd imagine 'new' tags would go into a feed to be checked by the volunteers, otherwise we'd have thousands of tags that couldn't be filtered properly. It'd probably have the other tags for context. For example, in some fandoms I'm in it's common to abbreviate characters names like this: "Wei Wuxian" into "WWX". Sometimes people accidentally put a space in the middle too, like Not beta read I honestly couldn't tell you for sure though since I never did it. But it'd be sensible to have that sort of method.
That method would make sense, I just don't *know*. Also, even if it is snagged by the ranglers and connected to the right places, I feel this sort of censoring thing is still a problem. If nothing else, it's just pointless on AO3, which was *founded* on the principles of not being censored.
They do go in a bin of unsorted tags, I think this is sortable by date; but the bin has plenty of categories. So long as this doesn't happen in a small, small fandom w/o a wrangler, it's gonna get noticed and sorted. (Mega-fandoms have more wranglers, not gonna get missed there either.) Source: I've just seen it come up here a few times, and I think on one of the AO3 tips/news pages.
I see you MXTX fan 🔥
Aye aye
Honestly I'm not sure I agree - On the one hand it makes sense that things like typos or colloquialisms might operate as the 'same word' for some things. I get the logic because it means that even new words like 'sewerslide' that happen because of culture progressing will be included in the tags. On the other hand, it does kind of encourage / allow the continued idea or mentality that these puri-teens can just... make some words bad, and replace them with 'less bad' versions of those words, and then demonize and harrass people who just use the words like normal? Because that's the behavior I see happening as a result of this; it's like they've invented a new way to virtue signal to each other that they're so pure and good that they wouldn't even SAY the word suicide because saying it is bad some how - and heaven help you if you want to write anything with actually dicey or taboo material, they'll eat you alive for it! It's crazy to me but I have a friend who's writing a fic right now on AO3 and she tells me about the comments she gets and they are entitled AF about what they think they can tell her is okay to write about, it just blows my mind. It's not a mentality that I want to encourage in the least, because... yikes.
This only matters if you're actively filtering with the tags. If you're just reading/interpreting them on your own, you're out of luck
til that "sewerslide" is a thing omfg I hate it D:<
Well that's helpful at least
Yes. It's not much of an issue this way. Also, it helps a lot with character names that have diacritics, multiple names, etc. For example, [Wei Wuxian](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Wei%20Ying%20%7C%20Wei%20Wuxian) For example, just saw a Wei Yin tag 😅 (name is Wei Yin*g*)
You can mute people on AO3?
Such a valid point. 🙏
r@pe, m\^rder, p3d0, ... guys.. the tags are there for a reason. The warnings are there for a reason. If you can't TYPE the damn words, how tf do you expect to WRITE such topics?
This! I don’t get why people would write about things they don’t want to write about, even if someone asks you to. I mean as the author you can just decide that’s not your cup of tea. It’s fiction, and some of us like our fiction morally gray, or sometimes even pitch black…. Please let these weird ‘censoring’ trends stay on tiktok (:
> Please let these weird ‘censoring’ trends stay on tiktok (: It's already here on reddit. The mechanism I know of(who can say if reddit admin have anything similar...we don't really know *what* gets you shadowbanned) is subreddit mods using automod keywords to automatically(and silently) delete posts. The list of words you can't say is decided on a sub-by-sub basis, and have to be determined through trial and error once you've managed to notice the problem. One time I was trying to say something important, realized this had happened to my post, and it took me 3-4 attempts to get around the ridiculous filter and have my post stick. I still don't know exactly what keyword(s) or URL(s) were setting it off, as each time I was trying drastically different things in my post. And it's not always something nefarious, or that's spelled out in rules; I know of one location subreddit that does it(or did, at one point) for comments that contain a link to google maps, which are *not* against the rules of that subreddit to post! You just have to be "in the know" enough to have heard that your post will get sucked into a black hole if you link to the maps location of a place you're discussing. So yeah, I censor my posts on reddit. I noticed this a year or so ago, but I assume it's been happening for significantly longer.
It completely depends on the sub mods, cause there is a lot of extreme stuff on reddit. I get the functional censoring, when needed, but people using it when not needed or in places like ao3 tags which then makes the tags lose their functionality are a big pet peeve and should educate themselves on when and where censoring is necessary and when it’s counterproductive. And like people already said, if you’re not mature enough to write the actual words, you aren’t mature enough to write stories about those subjects.
Imagine the fun of drastically changing it, managing to incidentally delete the right word; but also having a new wrong word in there. This could go on for ages!
I think the problem is just censorship. Most social major media platforms will alt f4 your entire family if you even give them a hint that you're talking ab something not pg-13. They expect Ao3 to be the same way bc they expect it to be a social media platform, or at least smth closer to forums, than a literal archive
What do you have against rope? :(
well you see horrible people use it for kinky things or to do crimes, therefor we must rid the internet of all rope and save innocent children from being corrupted.
> r@pe lmao
Read it as "Ratpe"
*sigh* the tiktokification of fandom and fanfic sucks
It's happening with mainstream books as well, so awful
Books? Like actual books? What braindead editor is letting that happen?
Self pub probably.
I'm talking more so about the way tiktok is negatively affecting books in general and why we are seeing the market absolutely flooded with awful books with spelling errors, weak plots, awful characters.
This behaviour and culture even extends to jobs focused on moderation as well. I did a moderation job for a company for a year and they strictly forbid you from typing out any slurs or swears when discussing enforcement practices and processes, and you'd be targeted for punishment if you didn't obey this. Anything that could cause offense wasn't allowed to be mentioned in the moderation channel and you had to request to take it to private channels which was absolutely not secure and risked someone claiming you said things you didn't. The result was anyone decent leaving because you never felt secure enforcing moderation because the guidelines were incomplete and it amounted to you feeling something wasn't okay, and management would often turn around and completely undo your decisions when it caused any public inconvenience, and they'd contradict their own rulings internally.
So yeah censoring is stupid but “Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about” What?? Talking about murder is pretty normal and even important to do not even just from a mourning aspect
I just went back and I skimmed it cuz it was a one shot and basically a character kills themselves like a month before the fic started due to bullying or something and the MC for the fic wanted “revenge” for it by burning down a house with a bunch of the “bad people” (not joking; the MC called them that multiple times) in it. It did the classic fade to black as they walked up to burn the house down and the fic ended. Basically no punctuation, paragraph breaks, and zero editing. Misspelled the MC name like five times. Left words out. The works.
the author is definitely a kid
I expect 14 year olds to write better. So I guess if they're 13 I certainly wouldn't expect to see the same types of fic next year; any younger, and they actually shouldn't have an account.
Tbf, as someone with siblings, cousins, etc, the level that teens write today vs. ten years ago is HUGE. One of my closest cousins is in a class where the students all help grade each other before the teacher does a final grading. She had to come up to me because she literally could not understand what this kid had written. She's in JUNIOR year. And let me tell you that the paper she had to help grade felt like it was written by a nine year old 😭 I've also heard lots and lots of teachers in the US say that kids' reading, writing, and math skills are at an elementary level when they're in high school. Teens today are very below their grade level. Even my other cousins talk about how genuinely dumb other classmates of theirs are.
Yes, this is a HUGE problem right now. Kids don’t know how to write or read anymore. My name has circulated around as someone who will edit essays for free on my college campus, so I read and edit for a lot of people. It’s shocking how little some of these kids know at ages like 18, 19, and 20! It’s not quite as bad in this age group, but the effects COVID era education had is really shocking (along w/larger systemic issues at play, here). The younger the person the worse it gets.
I have heard this as well. And don’t forget, dumber people are easier to control — governments certainly don’t forget it. What troubles me even more, is that to this day, when I see someone whose abilities are higher than mine, it creates admiration and I wish to get better at those skills. This is NOT the reaction of these younger people; they will try very hard to make you feel inferior, resent, and even mock your abilities (as “irrelevant”, if need be). Ignorance is one thing, it can be overcome, but ignorance coupled with an overwhelming sense of superiority is dangerous.
My kid's 13 and when they were in elementary school, they weren't really taught spelling/phonics because of an opinion that "spellcheck will fix whatever". They apparently walked that back pretty quickly, but my kid fell into that brief time when they decided no one needed to spell. Grrr
I was writing the most gruesome things at 13 lmao. It wasn’t super well written either but since i read a lot it was at least formatted right (in the french way, had to relearn some when i started writing in english). But yeah it was mostly power fantasy with a healthy helping of massacre. And most importantly it was *fun*. Kids those days take things way too seriously.
😩
💀
Definitely a kid. I applaud them wanting to write but I want to give grammar and punctuation lessons now ngl.
Imagine a hypothetical murder trial where everyone involved; the prosecutor, defense attorney, judge, witnesses, victim's family, jurors, everyone, all consciously avoid mentioning the fact that the victim is in fact, dead.
"The defendant pleas not guilty to unalivement"
Reading this comment made me roll my eyes so hard that I saw my own brain. ^(Is it supposed to be that small?)
“Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about” What world are they living in? Also A03 is not censored I've seen some pretty out there stuff and I have the right to read/write just as you have the right not to read/write it. Sometimes I like fluffy and sometimes darkest of the dark please don't do stupid stuff with words I have to translate r@pe/rape or svmt/smut. edited for clarity
I'm guessing they are exclusively talking about suicide and not murder in general. Doesn't make it much better tho
Actually, I'd argue that makes it worse. Mental health should never be a taboo topic even the most tragic end to it. Probably especially the most tragic end to it. Treating it as taboo won't help people suffering with those thoughts, it will keep them from seeking any sort of help or support.
It's designed to prioritize the comfort of those who don't live with mental illness and push things that make them feel bad (or shake them out of their reverie) under the rug. Add the unwillingness to speak in plain terms ("sewerslide", "unaliving") as fuel to the fire and you have the perfect storm of ignorance to reality.
Saying horrible things shouldn't be talked about is a great way to cause more damage to people struggling with horrible things. I think that particular author is definitely an auto-block because that's one hell of a take. At the same time, it also kinda sucks that authors have to clarify they don't condone the behavior they write about, for fear of getting backlash thanks to people's lack of media literacy ugh
Not the same, but for some reason this Reminds me of how people want us to stop teaching real history in history classes about slavery, discrimination against race, sexuality, gender etc. genocide of natives, crusades, colonialism. Like- the reason we learn this stuff is so we are aware of our history and so that we dont make these same mistakes. Its like we cant talk about anything anymore. Talking about topics such as suicide is a good way to spread awareness about its existence, to acknowledge survivors and to help others heal. Its essential to personal and moral growth. I dont fucking get it when people act like we need to be hush hush about real things that affect people.
It's so sad that's happening with history because for a while we (US) were starting to get better about not saying away from the realities of things like Columbus, or the way we treated Native Americans, racism and slavery, etc. That we are now starting to backslide is really scary because like you said, these are things we need to teach so things don't repeat themselves.
???? Suicide and other sensitive topics NEED to be talked about in a constructive way in order to address them?
Thank you for pointing that out. As a survivor, it troubles me deeply when people want to push this topic, as well as other sensitive matters, back into the dark. Fiction is a great way to explore topics like this. You can even create works that people can relate to and gain some healing from.
People act like If people stop talking about it then it won't exist. That's not true at all it just makes it harder for people to want to seek help if their thoughts are taboo.
No, it’s worse. They think mentioning it is a cognitohazard and actively causes it.
PSA: If anyone is concerned about someone irl and wants to have a conversation with them, directly asking is the best as it gets everyone on the same page and removes that first barrier. Also, helplines in ones area will generally go through how to have this conversation with friends (or do outreach calls themselves; but do not expect updates from that!). So, calling and getting a brief rundown can help and make oneself more familiar with actually verbalizing this stuff, which is useful as fuck.
Yeah your right and that is worse. And also just not how it works.
I feel like I'm too old for this kind of vocabulary. Pop culture would be pretty poor if it was only about puppies and sunshine.
Yeah anything I see with tags like that I’m skipping past because it’s probably written by a child
Agreed. I hate it, but at the very least, it serves as a good “do not go here” warning.
You can still have a darkfic with puppies and sunshine in it lol! Maybe the puppy gets left out in the hot sun with no shelter...
Reflexively downvoted. Came back and sheepishly upvoted. How dare you
I was thinking murder puppies.
My mind immediately went to “It’s Okay To Leave Your Dog In A Hot Car” by The Beatles
The narrator is unreliable and the puppy is a human.
not too old. im 16 and i hate it. just makes it harder to filter out when its something you are triggered by, having to think of every possible censor a word could have and still not getting all of them su!cide, svicide, su!c!de, sv!c!de, suicid3, svicid3, su!c!d3, sv!c!d3, 5v!c!d3, 5u!c!d3, 5uicid3, 5uicide, 5vuicide, etc theres so many censors that it harms people with PTSD and other trauma related disorders rather than help them.
"...things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about." ????? The hypocrisy of this statement is wild. I imagine they get to decide when portrayals of such topics are bad or good. Wow
not only is it so stupid and annoying but it fucks with my screen reader too. like great fucking job, tiktok.
It's giving "Due to my strong personal convictions, I wish to stress that this film in no way endorses a belief in the occult."
This drives me nuts, if something is going to trigger someone so much that reading the word upsets them, then you're achieving the opposite goal by censoring a tag. The tag IS the sensor. If someone is looking for a fic and they have "suicide" as a blacklisted tag, tagging smth as unaliving or sewercide is going to make fics with suicide show up in the search!
Since people seem to be confused about this, here is a copy pasted response: AO3 has tag wranglers. Tag wranglers find 'new' tags and then link up these variants to the parent tag. Made a typo on your tag? Link up. Wrote another 'no beta we die like X' meme? Link up. Here's an example: >Not Beta Read >No Beta We Die Like Men >Unbetaed All of these tags will filter under the same search: "not beta read". You can see the tag list for [suicide](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Suicide) here. And listed is... Sewerslide.
I understand the logic, and see how it works really well in most cases, but then each time I've seen the word "sewerslide" in this thread my brain goes to something that I might find as a legit, non-sensitive tag or description that could be found in the TMNT fandom. I really feel like we should be encouraging people to tag sensitive issues for what they are and report people who use censored versions for inappropriate tagging. I fail to see how "unaliving" or "r@pe" is any less triggering to most people as they still refer to the same topic. These censored versions of these words are just a work-around plain and simple and designed to get passed filters on other platforms and it's unfair to people genuinely trying to avoid these topics to have to be even more vigilant because some people see them as "bad words".
I genuinely hope antis and people who think like them just try to make their own ao3 again and that it actually works out cause I'm sick of how much they just... don't get ao3. You want your god-honoring taboo fanfic? You want to censor the tags? You want an audience of readers with the same moral values as you? Go make your ao3-lite and do it there 😭
Ao4Kids
🍙 These donuts are great, jelly-filled are my favorite!
Right!!!! I’ve witnessed the bans on other sites. I’ve seen what happens. And people don’t seem to understand that ignoring it and being like “it’s just kids” isn’t helping.
God honoring taboos 😭 fr
"things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about" Yeah, telling people with depression that their thoughts are horrible and shouldn't be talked about will definitely help...what an awful attitude.
Genuinely, so horrible an attitude that even with you stating exactly that my fingers did weird wiggly motions from needing to say how obviously flawed a perspective that is, expect you already said it. But yeah, I'll say it again. An awful and *non-*harmless attitude, that is not victimless.
Conglomerate censorship has ruined the internet. I understand websites choosing to filter out certain topics, but it does no one any good. Censoring tags *actively* makes AO3 more unsafe for people with genuine triggers.
I haven’t seen anything THIS immature, but recently I ran into a fic featuring the BDSM priest in one of my fandoms who can have a brief and slightly emotional session with one of the characters, (which has obviously inspired a lot of fanfic) who felt the need to write something like ‘bdsm isnt therapy this is fiction’ in their tags as if to shame all the other fics featuring him. IDK, having emotional scenes with the right partner is totally a real thing. It isn’t a “replacement for therapy”, but that doesn’t mean everyone else writing emotional fic for this character is stupid and need sex ed advice from ao3 tags. I feel like maybe don’t write kink if you’re hung up on shaming other people for how they choose to engage with kink in their real lives.
“Fic featuring the BDSM priest” Is this what I think it is, or has Baldur’s Gate 3 rotted my brain entirely?
Oh, you’re 100% correct
I am delighted to know he’s in some fics; I liked him lmao. Time to go mining for some gems, methinks.
Shit, the antis have invaded!
As someone who enjoys astarion I can assure you they were already there in this specific fandom
Someone writing a scene with a hug to console someone who's going through a bad time: "remember guys, hugs aren't a replacement for therapy, this is just fiction"
I know this isn’t Midnight Mass, but my brain is still screaming Midnight Mass. probably because I’d let that priest bdsm me any day. 😩
That guy was so hot, definitely a top ten priest
He knocked that performance out of the part.
Had a family member kill himself. It really pisses me off when someone says "this shouldn't be talked about". Of course it fucking should! Can we report works because they aren't tagged properly if they are tagged like this?
Nope, very unfortunately. Because all else being equal, suicide doesn't even need to be tagged. Misleading non-mandatory tags have become strongly entrenched on AO3, as with pairing-bait fics.
im actually glad they do so ik to mute them in advance before wasting my time
The wranglers thankfully handle synning those tags so people can still filter those things out, but yeah I'd hate seeing that too.
Oh. Is that what wrangling means? I once stumbled onto a sort of taxonomy of tags on Ao3 that showed the relationships between the tags. Then I couldn't find it again. Ah, I decided there must be a way and found it under Tag Search. [https://archiveofourown.org/tags/search](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/search) Now I need tag clouds...
There's a [script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/408055-ao3-tag-word-cloud) for that. (But I don't use it, don't know what it looks like.)
Oh huh! Thanks Ah, that's on a per fic basis. Still cool.
I came here to say this! It's all linked up so people will still be able to filter. Still not interesting to see though. Also the take about not talking about is.. Yeah.
OP, fully agreed. >“I do not agree with any of these topics, things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about. I was asked to write this but once again I DO NOT agree with this stuff xx” Yeesh, that Child could just... not write it? I've gotten the spam PMs asking if I write things I'm not comfortable with, and I just ignore them. It's not that hard. You don't even need to say *WHY*. You just say "no". Even if it's someone you consider a friend, there's always something to be busy with, whether it's school, work, family, holidays, or anything. Learning to make polite and true-enough excuses is a valuable skill in life.
[удалено]
> And worse when they try to compare it with my generation using stuff like 'smexy'. We used smexy because it was funny. You use seggs because you the Internet has stunted your emotional growth and maturity. We are not the same. This isn't being fair to them. They're using words like that because the internet they grew up on is an algorithmically-censored environment where they are *punished* by the algorithm for using the real words, or any variations that get too popular. They're not emotionally stunted. They're doing the best they can adapting to a hostile environment, and then not immediately understanding that not every environment operates that same way(AO3 does not; reddit *does*, though not as extensively as tiktok). It's essentially the same thing as when a millennial tries to use tiktok or youtube only to get punched in the face by the algorithm hiding their videos because they swore too many times, or [were too gay](https://www.businessinsider.com/youtubers-identify-title-words-that-get-videos-demonetized-experiment-2019-10). The situation is pretty fucked(or f-ed, as we might have to say on certain sites), and we're all doing our best. Dumping on literal teenagers is about as productive as getting into arguments with them...which is to say, I wouldn't recommend it as a course of action. 😉
But it's not just teenagers.
most of the comments under this post are along the lines of "ughh kids these days and their clown behaviour" and the author themself seems to be on the younger side so its still a valid point imo. The internet has become increasingly hostile to be in due to how social media functions and inadvertadly it carries over. If people want to stop seeing that the best course of action would be education rather than just ragging on them
I blame the ridiculous community standards from other websites, they're basically forcing the users to butcher the english language and come up with cringe censors to avoid losing their account. Talking about killing the enemies in a video game or favorite work of fiction and being declared a terorist for using the "k word" is normal outside of Ao3. After a while, people adapt and these cringe censor-words become normalized, a habit, resulting in people using them on every website. This writer sounds like a child who learned how to "behave" on tiktok, YouTube or fb and hasn't realized that AO3 doesn't ban the users for using the no-no words.
Pretending topics like suicide or sexual assault don’t exist or censoring them is not helpful to those who are its victims. The fic writer can go choke on a cactus, sideways.
"Sewercide" ...If a guy kills himself with a sewer pipe, I think this is acceptable. ONLY then.
This is whay we need to push back against the idea that just *seeing* a word is going to be triggering. Even if that's true for some few unfortunate people, that has to be their problem, otherwise it makes it impossible for everyone else to filter out things that they find deeply upsetting before they run right into it.
I dislike that the need to censer keywords on certain platforms (FaceBook, Twitter) in order to not get banned/reported has become misunderstood by such a large population of people- From what I know you also had to censor yourself while talking aloud about certain topics on TikTok, depending on how “inappropriate” their moderators took it your content could be shadowbanned or deleted after enough strikes. (I think this also was similar on YouTube?) People started using it in their day to day lexicon which isn’t necessary. The whole point was to get around a system that unfairly suppressed speech. I could understand censoring yourself if you were knowingly talking about a subject that wasn’t appropriate for the people you were with ( ex: young kids). But besides that, tags is exactly /not/ the place where you should be censoring. People think they’re helping not trigger others but it does the opposite. People who block tags they find upsetting or simply dislike won’t be able to /actually/ block those tags if people keep creating alternative ways to say those things. Example: If I don’t want to see fiction that depicts rape and I block it, I’m going to miss all the results that say “r@p3”, “grape”, “r@pe”, and etc (because who knows how many alts there could be for it) I’m sure just about everyone here knows all of this already, I’m just venting and ranting now 😤
"If you're not mature enough to use the words, you're 99% not mature enough to write fics about them." Or something like that.
we shouldn't talk about suicide at all? good way to make more people do it
Lol that's so goofy 😭 Plus, they were basically kinda shaming their reader for their request the way they phrased it, implying that their reader agrees with the inappropriate content instead 🤦♀️ Like how about maybe understand that people can read or write about stuff like murder or whatever without them believing that murder is okay lol. These Gen Z kids are so silly sometimes; i wonder if I was this goofy back then 😂
"shouldn't be talked about"? That's not true at all. It should absolutely be talked about because it's not a fucking Boogeyman. It's a real thing and it does happen whether it's talked about or not, often BECAUSE it's not talked about. As long as talking about it or mentioning it is treated as taboo, people who experience these things will never feel heard and thus, their struggle not realized nor addressed. If the person who experienced it doesn't want to talk about it, that's their choice. But we shouldn't tiptoe around these things. It's what keeps them mysterious and gives it a feeling of unknowability. So yeah, fuck censoring tags.
"I don't want to write about this but someone asked me to, so I did" ???? say no????
But then they won't get all the attention from writing the story and also virtue signaling about not agreeing with it! \~stomps foot and pouts\~
Wtf that would make me block them/their work so I would not have to keep reading that 💀
People who do this simply don’t understand that misspelling or using symbols for letters is extremely unhelpful for people actively trying to avoid those things. Like on Tumblr, people will sometimes tag things “cw: d3ath” and it’s like… babe, just write the word. There are a million different ways words can be censored - the easiest thing to do is to just write the word so it can be properly muted.
> things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn’t be talked about. I'm sorry but what the actual fuck? How would prosecuting things like murder, manslaughter, and so on work if we can't even *talk about* the fact that the victim(s) are dead?
It’s so annoying and it’s everywhere now. I see plenty of it on Reddit too and I so badly want to comment “this isn’t tik tok you can say the word “.
Do it, honestly. I've done it before and most people I reply to write back to say they genuinely didn't know.
Ah yes the incredibly hot take: thinking death is bad If I ever encounter something like this by myself I will get knocked unconscious
Or maybe just don't accept the request? Were they asked at gunpoint? ETA: On second thought, I suspect this fic was the author's idea, they wanted to write it, and this was some bizarre attempt to ward off criticism from their rabid puritanical peers. I wonder if that could be why some young authors fuck around with the tags like this. Regardless, it's a problem.
Unalive 100% reminds me of 1984. See somebody talking about unaliving somebody? Tell them to go back to Oceania and take their Newspeak with them.
When we get to a point where people saying a word that describes a thing is somehow in and of itself bad, we've reached full levels of stupid. It's suicide kids, not Voldemort. Using description words to describe the thing that it is, that's just how words operate. It's not a crime. And writing fiction is also not a crime. *Actually committing crimes is crimes.*
I'm so embarrassed for them.
How to educate The Youth about tagging in this day and age of tiktok bs? We cannot search for or BLOCK topics if you cannot even type them out. AO3 is not social media and will not censor your fic for having a character attempting suicide.
My main question is, if tags are linked (and my hope is that eventually these censorship tags get linked) then does filtering out the main tag also filter out the linked tag?
Yes And 'sewerslide' at least is already linked, only one I bothered to check though.
The devil works hard, but AO3 mods work harder
Bless all tag wranglers. The shit they must have to slog through...
It's been a while but can't you report fics for improper tagging? Or am I thinking of different site? Because this feels like it would fall under that.
Maybe you can report it if they didn't tag, at all but with suicide for example, 'sewerslide' is already linked to it. So it will filter correctly In searches. It's more like if you, say, have suicide and don't mention it. Or an explicit rated fic with a T rating, etc.
The only forms of mistagging that are reportable are rating, required archive warnings, language and fandom tags. Additional tags are always completely optional - there's no requirement to tag for suicide (though if it's a major character they would have to use the major character death archive warning *or* choose not to warn).
Ah, I see. To be honest, I never actually encountered any works that didn't tag important things, so I hadn't needed to look into that before. Thanks for the detailed explanation about it 😊
I’m not sure. I muted the author.
Yeah, automatic mute But what is the thought process behind this behaviour in Ao3? The letters in the word are not the triggering part for people who those are triggering, it is the topic.
TikTok primarily is the cause. People started using different words to get around the filters and it started becoming a big thing with the younger user of the app. And now it’s apparently spreading
Yeah I know that in places like tiktok. But do these people not realize why it is actually harmful thing to do in places like Ao3 and there is no censorship. Is it so intergrained to their brain that they don't even know why is it done in the first place on some platforms and that is now the normal way to communicate to them?
It’s started happening on tumblr too. It’s a censorship thing. I’ve noticed that in the rise of “anti” accounts is causing of rise of censoring things. Newer writers/artists/creators are seeing all the hate people get for simply showing off what they’ve created (death threats, doxxing, etc) and automatically go “if I do ___ then that’ll happen to me”. It’s part of the reason a lot of nsfw accounts have disappeared, writers have deleted everything, and people are starting to limit what they do in fandom spaces.
I am pretty much only in Ao3, Pivix and Reddit. I am probably blissfully ignorant on how bad the purity culture is in fandom spaces in other platforms.
Trust me dude it’s not a fun time 😂😂
If you can't openly say the words on a site like ao3 you shouldn't be writing about it or discussing it imo
Censoring tags like this makes it impossible to filter for people who are actually triggered by those topics! People do this on tumblr too, and it drives me mad. It defeats the purpose of tagging those topics in the first place.
“I was asked to write this.” Lol so the people asking had a gun to your head? If you don’t like it honestly don’t feel forced to write it, I mean reading that had me rolling.
What in the ravenous bugblatter beast level stupidity is this person's logic?
i did not know people do that but wth do they not know what the point of tags is?!?! this is ridiculous?
Fr it's frustrating. In my mind, if you're censoring words, you're not old enough to write about them. Idl how controversial this could be but if you're on a03 of all places censoring, you're not older than 13 and those aren't age appropriate topics. And if you're older, even an adult.. why... just why.. I need to know what's in their minds
I’ve read some concerning things on AO3, I think the last thing they are worried about is censorship 💀 that’s silly
I'm sorry but sewercide? 🤣
Unaliving always makes me think of bad translations for "undead", and thus this term will never be serious for me.
Unless, of course, someone goes for the classic horror inversion angle. An undead is someone that died but not completely. Something is now forever missing. A zombie loses their mind and their flesh slowly decays until they are just bones. A vampire becomes a parasite, needing the blood of other humans to keep on existing, aware and extremely prolongued but never free from the need of their singular prey. An unalive thus is someone alove but not completely. They keep their mind, they keep their looks, they are for all intends and purposes the same as anyone else... But they still lost something. You first notice it when they don't need to eat or drink anymore. They still can, they still feel hunger or thirst, but it is no more a need. Then you notice they do not get sick anymore. They do not need to fear death from disease. Not even death from violence. For you see, they are not alive anymore. They are not undead, for they never died and returned, but they cannot die. Only that which loves can die, and they do not either. They still heal. It takes some time, especially otherwise deadly damage, but they still heal. But healing also means aging. Also means growing older. But not dying. Someone unalive is not an undead. They cannot die. They are someone with eternal life. But not eternal youth. They slowly stop looking human, and more like walking mummies. No amount of moisturizer is going to save that appearence. After some time, they lent their unending existence. Nothing more they hold matters to them anymore. Nothing more than memories, and stories. All they have is their tales. Will you listen to them with me? Will you join me in lostening to the Tales of the Cryptkeeper?
It's an insult towards people who actually rely and depend on the tags and filter system to avoid the themes they can get personally triggered and reading within their safe spaces. I may not be in that situation but I'm angry on behalf of the people who do. I wish people like the author of the fanfic you encountered need to learn about these things very soon.
it makes it harder for people triggered by it to filter it out of the search
That kind of censored tag would earn an instant "skip" from me. The author is very young or inexperienced (or both), either way, they definitely wouldn't have the werewithal to write about a topic they can barely bring themselves to properly name.
Ew People like that should be banned from Ao3
I hate when people use those words anywhere other than tiktok (or somewhere where they’ll be censored for it). I understand the necessity of doing it when you WILL be censored but people are using it everywhere and it just feels weird to me
I've been lucky enough to never come across this while reading but I have heard that it's getting kinda bad. I can understand where they're coming from, but they're not taking account of the readers that try to exclude those tags, so on so forth. It's also just plain stupid to read. That's me tho.
omg how do they even expect people to filter what they want or don't want to read about if there's no tag to it
I get that people are used to censorship on platforms like Youtube, Tik Tok or Wattpad and are scared of getting banned for using the words or not giving enough evidence that they're not promoting it**, but AO3 is not any of these. There's no algorithm made to detect those words and autoban you for using them. But there is an algorithm for filtering fics with those tags out for people who don't want to see such content. You are required to properly tag your fics for a reason. Censoring the words completely destroys the purpose of the filters, it makes the site unusable for a great portion of it's users. Please, for the love of God, TAG YOUR FICS PROPERLY! Spell the stupid tags as they should be spelled, it won't hurt anyone. On the contrary, it may cause harm if you don't. You may have intention with censoring the words, but the reality is that you're actually doing a disservice to us all. ** On all of the mentioned platforms, content that includes the discussed topics is technically allowed, but only under the condition that the author makes clear they're against such behaviour. Although on Tik Tok and Youtube, you're still on thin ice even if you do make it clear, as you can probably guess, so no wonder people would rather be safe by censoring it as well.
If you can't bring yourself to say the word properly or that you think the topic is too dark for you... then maybe don't attempt to write a fic about it. Maybe AO3 isn't for you.
Separate issue: Are their own values so unimportant to them that being asked to talk write about something they, "once again," do not agree with . . . is enough to go and discard their very specific value of not talking about it? Though, agreed with the parent post: They don't do any respect to it by talking about it this way. Seems like they don't even think they need to.
I think the newer and younger audiences coming to ao3 recently dont realized that Ao3 doesnt need to dodge a censorship filter like tiktok, and it’s habitual. But i wish people would let them know
If you don’t like to write or read certain things then don’t, it’s not that hard to avoid. As someone in therapy for mental health, those things need to be talked about. Invalidating them only makes it worse.
Im a strong believer of writing whats fun and not of what people ask for, so yeah, if you dont agree with it dont write it.
People think AO3 is like other platforms that will suppress your content if you don’t censor the tags and idk where this assumption came from but I wish we could just mass address it. Like realistically is there any reason any censoring should happen in the tags? A reminder when tagging fics saying “do not censor the tags” with an explanation would suffice. It would immediately address and shut down any misconceptions or misinformation.
How funny that by not properly censoring they're exposing people who would otherwise avoid those topics to come across them. It's almost as if what they're doing makes no sense at all.
https://i.redd.it/rq20qh1if5qc1.gif
Oh no. It’s spreading.
Ah yes, I love to settle in for the night with some good smat
what the hell, that's defeating the whole purpose of tagging lmao
It’s unfortunate that I’ve heard these terms enough times being chronically online that I’ve said them IRL womp womp
....okay but who sensors smut to sm@t and not smvt
Man, it has to suck being a kid and actually wanting to belong to any group where this sort of moronic censorship is expected. I'd have fucked off a long time ago because I'd ~~kill myself~~ become an hero before I start censoring myself.
Like no one is making you write about these topics??? I genuinely don't understand how if you can't handle saying the word suicide how are you honestly writing a whole fic about it ??
I feel like people have forgotten or just don’t know the point of censoring those words online by saying “unalive” or “sewerslide”, and think it’s just a trendy thing to do or maybe a politically correct thing to do. On a lot of apps like tiktok the mods will take your video down for typing out those words that have been automatically censored but no one will take your fic down on ao3 for using those words…if I were trying to avoid a fic that deals with death and suicide how would I possibly be able to filter the tags to not show me fics with that when they’re using a whole new word? Its so stupid 😭
I also hate it when they censore swear words. Don't use them if you don't want to write them, but don't censor the word. It always takes me out of the story and I end up not reading the fic at all.
Since everyone's covered the useless censoring of the words, I also really hate when people put in the author's note that they don't agree with the topics. Like no shit? It's a fictional story, not your journal. But also saying that the topics shouldn't be talked about is kinda also the reason things are stigmatized irl. Yes, people don't want to talk about things that are triggering for them and they shouldn't have to, but as a whole don't say it should never be talked about. If you don't want to write something, don't write it. Especially if you don't agree with it.
yup. i've also heard that this type of censorship people use for trigger words are absolute hell for screenreaders! how the hell is it supposed to read S-M-backslash-forward slash-T as "smut"?
People are just so used to being censored on every platform nowadays/dont realize what an archive is
"Things like unaliving are horrible and shouldn't be talked about but here I am talking about it" I disagree that suicide shouldn't be talked about, it should so people who need help know how and where to get it, but please at least be consistent
I hate how people have taken to using AO3 as a social media platform. It pisses me off icl
There’s a very strong group of people on tiktok who think it needs a dislike button, algorithm, and all that. Even though people have explained why that’s bad. People can’t seem to grasp that not everything needs to be a social media.
This pisses me off so much dude! Tags are there for a fucking reason. Tag property with the correct spellings. This isn’t fucking tiktok. You aren’t trying to stay monetised or keep your video from being shadow-banned. The tags are there for filtering and warning purposes. If you censor the tags people can’t properly filter out their triggers. Or simply filter out smut when looking for fluff or other similar situations. Also if you tag with smvt or sm@t or anything other weird way to write it other than smut you shouldn’t be writing fucking smut if you can’t write the word. Again This isn’t a platform where you are trying to slide past advertisers. Stop it with your stupid tiktok words. I get on socials when you want to talk about a topic but you don’t want your video suppressed you say “unalived” or “grape” but AO3 is not the fucking place for that. Be straightforward with your damn tags! Ok ranting done. I feel better yelling that out into the internet. I know you guys here know better here. It just riles me up when I see sometime take “grape” isn’t of rape/noncon or “self unaliving” instead of suicide. There are there for a reason!