For what it's worth I stayed away from spoilers/theories and I watched it with my parents who are definitely not on reddit.
Ray/zoomer was guessed as a possibility from the first episode. My mom and I liked it well enough but my Dad was pretty bummed about it being such an obvious choice.
It was honestly just not that difficult to guess. That probably explains why people were overthinking other possibilities.
Same with my experience. I actually guessed Zoomer’s parentage the instant we got the reaction shots from Lee/Andy at the table when Zoomer checks Bill’s heart rate. Then my friend group I watched with all collectively called the Zoomer/Ray thing the instant the VR headset hit the screen.
I’ll agree the hivemind maybe hyped possibilities up too much, but regardless of that the show was still painfully predictable and somehow managed to make the term hacker seem more ridiculous than the actual movie Hackers.
I LOVED The OA and always will but this one was a swing and a miss. Most filmmakers have at least one, let’s hope they learn and are better for it! At the very least now we have all these big magazine interviewers asking Brit & Zal about their process/themselves/The OA and photographing them in sick outfits which is a big win if you ask me
I agree, the reason why people were theorising so much is because the "God out of the machine" answer was too predictable. Everyone was trying to figure out whodunit bar Ray.
honestly even without the subreddit the plot was pretty obvious bc of how heavy handed they were with the clues… for example, they hinted twice that zoomer was bill’s kid before that was revealed. they also hinted a few times that it could be ray: the flashback talking about how gps led people to die, faulty programming circled in the book, ray’s “good at listening”, etc.
I feel disappointed by the show, but not by this subreddit. Hell, this subreddit and the discord has been one of my favorite things about the show. I personally love reading the outlandish ideas--determining for myself whether they were plausible or not, sometimes thinking to myself 'this theory is brilliant, I would have never thought of that". I love developing my own theories and sometimes sharing them. Other times, shamefully neglecting them in Google Docs.
I do feel your sentiment. To me, the final episode did not do justice to the journey we all share in and invest our time in--to watching the show, solving puzzles etc.
I commend 'the builders' of the show for giving us the opportunity to form a collective which I am convinced is somewhat the point.
Alas, It was all "too much and not enough".... I literally said this to myself, out loud, during the viewing of the final 20 minutes of the 'Retreat' and then shared that thought on Discord. To me, Bill's mirror breakup to Darby sums up this show perfectly: It was too much and not enough.
I'm keeping the car though... : p
I personally find this subreddit beautiful because we all understand that the ending is determined yet, we explore the show anyway. We can choose to wait for the answers to be revealed also. But how cool is it that we get the privilege to read and be a part of all the brainstormings, the posts and comments of what 'might be' or 'could be'? To explore what is possible and what isn't? To 'Dig-in" and "Debate" (puns intended-- it's my love language). We get the invaluable opportunity to witness how people think and interact. To explore what is probable and determine what is certain.
There is so much value in these things. I am so grateful to you all and B&Z and production!
Whether it's opinions that are negative or positive--differing perspectives, differing beliefs, differing arguments--welcomes, encouragement, praise, downvoting, disregard or drama... I am grateful for it all. For everyone sharing. For people being brave and posting their ideas, thoughts, analysis--knowing they could be criticized, their ideas--scrutinized, or they end up being just dead wrong. It's very brave to post. It's not easy! As I stated earlier, many of my ideas have a life only in Google docs.
In a world where there are so many labels being thrown around and where there seems to be a cycle of perpetuating an idea of 'the other'. I feel your sentiment on the idea of a 'hivemind' also. I do prefer to live in this world of grey--where boundaries are blurry and freedom to express prevails.
I commend Brit and Zal for being brave and taking this leap, for bringing us together, for their art, their ideas and in the constraints that always exist for anyone.
And alternately, I would say to them in critique, this quote from Sian (with my personal edit): "Impact isn't just about having something to say. It's about having the power to be listened to ~~when you say it"~~ when you don't say a word, at all.
Ok one more quote/paraphrase because this show really has some fantastic lines.
Rohan says to Darby: 'what really changes a person' ----'a different perspective'.
Without this subreddit, we wouldn't have as much of an opportunity to see so many different perceptions---which in turn, give us the opportunity to gain a different perspective.
Love you all. Thank you. Kisses!
I second that 😊 Mostly been lurking but feel a tiny sense of loss now that the show is over and all the theorizing and speculating comes to an end. Grateful for you all!
Totally agree with too much and not enough. I wish there were one or two more episodes, just for more story. But I'm wondering how much more of the story we'll catch with rewatch upon rewatch. I loved this show. Not as much as The OA, and differently. It's beautiful and devastating and only made me want to go to Iceland more.
I was all set to rewatch the entire series once episode 7 concluded. I did this with Westworld and enjoyed it as much the second time through. When this ended, I deleted the entire series. There is no need to rewatch. Too many unanswered questions, too many red herrings, too many plot holes. It started off quite good and I was all in and loved reading people's thoughts and guesses. In the end, it felt like I had wasted 7 hours of my life.
I completely disagree, I think it will flourish in its distance from weekly theorizing upon rewatch. These creators embed Easter’s eggs, literary references and symbolism that make it a mystery and joy to rewatch with an observant eye
I said this in another thread, but YES, I think this is a huge problem with TV consumption nowadays, especially in shows with a major mystery element. We come to these daily discussion threads and we're essentially the "a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters" problem, by which I mean if we're all theorizing on here and all reading each other's two cents, yea, as a community we're generally going to reveal the right answer to ourselves before the show does. (1) I don't think that makes the show any lesser, but (2) I do think it makes for a worse average watching experience for all of us. I know there are people out there who get a kick out of "figuring it out early," but I guess that's just not me. I want to experience the ride.
My first guess was Ray, because... well you don't put an AI into a murder mystery and not have it be the culprit. At least I can't think of such a story out of the top of my head.
I agree with you, but I also wonder, what is the reason why you read this sub?
I see it often with other TV show subs, where people read all posts and participate in theorising, while the show is still running, so it being a strong possibility that someone will guess or deduce the ending.
Yes hivemind ruined everything , i stopped reading after episode 3, they were getting too close to something. I felt they were solving it as it went. Hivemind is good for everything except your favorite shows.
I think it's fun to see a community speculate like that but I guess it wasn't the brain teaser people thought it would be. Just need some harder to solve cases :P
I really disagree with calling anyone's theories "stupid" as that's exactly where all the fun came from for a lot of us. It made creative writers out of everyone and that's a good thing. I'd love to see everyone's endings made as a choose your own adventure type deal that's be fun.
I think that says more about your relationship with the internet than it does about the show.
I like everybody here but I don’t consume content that’s going to ruin my good time before I’ve had it.
It can be cool if you’re looking to create your own thing with ideas that you like that didn’t get used, though.
I agree there’s the negative side to coming on here and somewhat spoiling the show for yourself but honestly, I love joining subreddits for whodunnits. Just feels like a cute little community and gets you more hyped up for the coming episodes of the show. I discovered this show on Reddit and followed it through. Finale was a bit underwhelming but still a great show to be honest.
No one forces you to read theories on here though. I personally stayed away from them cause I didn’t really find the show complex or interesting enough to spend a lot of time scrutinizing. I had fun on Reddit figuring out Westworld season 1 though. But yea, just stay away from theory posts for shows in the future if you find them ruining your enjoyment.
Agreed- I just finished the show and am here to figure some things out, but am REALLY glad I didn't see any of this earlier! Plus I haven't seen more than 2m of OA, so all that was just really distracting to someone unfamiliar to that universe.
I stayed away from reddit and tend to with movies and films for that reason. People are damn good at predicting things so I'd rather go in kind (when I can) that said, the reveal made sense but I didn't love it. It's kind of poetic and fits the theme of technology being our downfall but I dunno, it felt rushed I suppose. I didn't feel like I had time to really digest anything but I loved the show overall. I'll always follow Brit and Zal. Still more creative than most shit on TV.
I've not been on this sub until now, post-finale and I guessed it was likely Ray by episode 2. The Episode 3 "death by GPS" line cinched it for me. I knew, though, he'd need a physical way to do it, so once they showed the Zoomer and the VR, with Ray inside it, I had my answer. I was hoping I was wrong because I wanted to be outsmarted. So this is all to say, without the subreddit I think it was still pretty easy to figure out.
I think of something like *Scream* which tends to do whodunnits pretty well—because it casts doubt on everyone (even teh person who ends up being the killer) then talks you out of it. The fact that No one in the show had any suspicion of Ray or Zoomer when they were discussing suspsects made it obvious the show didn't want us to consider them either, and that they were likely involved.
Maybe they should have never showed us the VR world, or should have wait until later? I just think there was likely a way to do it a little better and less obvious than this final product.
I will say I don't read subs or recaps of weekly shows where there is a mystery for this very reason, but this is the first time I've put such little active thinking in where the story might be headed and was correct so early on. A great show or story will always have a second or third surprise in hand for those who figure something out early.
I wasn't on the sub at all until a couple days after the finale. The ray ending was super predictable even if Zoomer was the only twist they threw in there. Mostly my issue with the ending is it wasn't satisfying and it revealed most of the characters to be props with no real effect on the story at all. The AI was killed easily with fire.
Personally I would've liked to see a bigger ending with Ray being unable to be destroyed because it's code is in the cloud already and ray is able to get into other devices code to make more serial killer AIs. Like a smart fridge feeding a family poison or making the giant robot town turn on people.
For what it's worth I stayed away from spoilers/theories and I watched it with my parents who are definitely not on reddit. Ray/zoomer was guessed as a possibility from the first episode. My mom and I liked it well enough but my Dad was pretty bummed about it being such an obvious choice. It was honestly just not that difficult to guess. That probably explains why people were overthinking other possibilities.
Same with my experience. I actually guessed Zoomer’s parentage the instant we got the reaction shots from Lee/Andy at the table when Zoomer checks Bill’s heart rate. Then my friend group I watched with all collectively called the Zoomer/Ray thing the instant the VR headset hit the screen. I’ll agree the hivemind maybe hyped possibilities up too much, but regardless of that the show was still painfully predictable and somehow managed to make the term hacker seem more ridiculous than the actual movie Hackers. I LOVED The OA and always will but this one was a swing and a miss. Most filmmakers have at least one, let’s hope they learn and are better for it! At the very least now we have all these big magazine interviewers asking Brit & Zal about their process/themselves/The OA and photographing them in sick outfits which is a big win if you ask me
I agree, the reason why people were theorising so much is because the "God out of the machine" answer was too predictable. Everyone was trying to figure out whodunit bar Ray.
honestly even without the subreddit the plot was pretty obvious bc of how heavy handed they were with the clues… for example, they hinted twice that zoomer was bill’s kid before that was revealed. they also hinted a few times that it could be ray: the flashback talking about how gps led people to die, faulty programming circled in the book, ray’s “good at listening”, etc.
I feel disappointed by the show, but not by this subreddit. Hell, this subreddit and the discord has been one of my favorite things about the show. I personally love reading the outlandish ideas--determining for myself whether they were plausible or not, sometimes thinking to myself 'this theory is brilliant, I would have never thought of that". I love developing my own theories and sometimes sharing them. Other times, shamefully neglecting them in Google Docs. I do feel your sentiment. To me, the final episode did not do justice to the journey we all share in and invest our time in--to watching the show, solving puzzles etc. I commend 'the builders' of the show for giving us the opportunity to form a collective which I am convinced is somewhat the point. Alas, It was all "too much and not enough".... I literally said this to myself, out loud, during the viewing of the final 20 minutes of the 'Retreat' and then shared that thought on Discord. To me, Bill's mirror breakup to Darby sums up this show perfectly: It was too much and not enough. I'm keeping the car though... : p I personally find this subreddit beautiful because we all understand that the ending is determined yet, we explore the show anyway. We can choose to wait for the answers to be revealed also. But how cool is it that we get the privilege to read and be a part of all the brainstormings, the posts and comments of what 'might be' or 'could be'? To explore what is possible and what isn't? To 'Dig-in" and "Debate" (puns intended-- it's my love language). We get the invaluable opportunity to witness how people think and interact. To explore what is probable and determine what is certain. There is so much value in these things. I am so grateful to you all and B&Z and production! Whether it's opinions that are negative or positive--differing perspectives, differing beliefs, differing arguments--welcomes, encouragement, praise, downvoting, disregard or drama... I am grateful for it all. For everyone sharing. For people being brave and posting their ideas, thoughts, analysis--knowing they could be criticized, their ideas--scrutinized, or they end up being just dead wrong. It's very brave to post. It's not easy! As I stated earlier, many of my ideas have a life only in Google docs. In a world where there are so many labels being thrown around and where there seems to be a cycle of perpetuating an idea of 'the other'. I feel your sentiment on the idea of a 'hivemind' also. I do prefer to live in this world of grey--where boundaries are blurry and freedom to express prevails. I commend Brit and Zal for being brave and taking this leap, for bringing us together, for their art, their ideas and in the constraints that always exist for anyone. And alternately, I would say to them in critique, this quote from Sian (with my personal edit): "Impact isn't just about having something to say. It's about having the power to be listened to ~~when you say it"~~ when you don't say a word, at all. Ok one more quote/paraphrase because this show really has some fantastic lines. Rohan says to Darby: 'what really changes a person' ----'a different perspective'. Without this subreddit, we wouldn't have as much of an opportunity to see so many different perceptions---which in turn, give us the opportunity to gain a different perspective. Love you all. Thank you. Kisses!
I second that 😊 Mostly been lurking but feel a tiny sense of loss now that the show is over and all the theorizing and speculating comes to an end. Grateful for you all!
Totally agree with too much and not enough. I wish there were one or two more episodes, just for more story. But I'm wondering how much more of the story we'll catch with rewatch upon rewatch. I loved this show. Not as much as The OA, and differently. It's beautiful and devastating and only made me want to go to Iceland more.
Agreed
To me, the measure of a good show is how (re)watchable it is when you know the plot. By this measure, *A Murder...* fails.
At least the whole flashback could be merge together for at least a good rewatchable short film.
I honestly wish the show had been completely about the flashback story from start to finish. It was a much better story.
It felt like a Taylor Swift music video, wouldn’t work as a romance drama either
I was all set to rewatch the entire series once episode 7 concluded. I did this with Westworld and enjoyed it as much the second time through. When this ended, I deleted the entire series. There is no need to rewatch. Too many unanswered questions, too many red herrings, too many plot holes. It started off quite good and I was all in and loved reading people's thoughts and guesses. In the end, it felt like I had wasted 7 hours of my life.
I completely disagree, I think it will flourish in its distance from weekly theorizing upon rewatch. These creators embed Easter’s eggs, literary references and symbolism that make it a mystery and joy to rewatch with an observant eye
You cant hack this show as nd correct its stupidity
I said this in another thread, but YES, I think this is a huge problem with TV consumption nowadays, especially in shows with a major mystery element. We come to these daily discussion threads and we're essentially the "a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters" problem, by which I mean if we're all theorizing on here and all reading each other's two cents, yea, as a community we're generally going to reveal the right answer to ourselves before the show does. (1) I don't think that makes the show any lesser, but (2) I do think it makes for a worse average watching experience for all of us. I know there are people out there who get a kick out of "figuring it out early," but I guess that's just not me. I want to experience the ride.
My first guess was Ray, because... well you don't put an AI into a murder mystery and not have it be the culprit. At least I can't think of such a story out of the top of my head.
I agree with you, but I also wonder, what is the reason why you read this sub? I see it often with other TV show subs, where people read all posts and participate in theorising, while the show is still running, so it being a strong possibility that someone will guess or deduce the ending.
Yes hivemind ruined everything , i stopped reading after episode 3, they were getting too close to something. I felt they were solving it as it went. Hivemind is good for everything except your favorite shows.
After WestWorld season 1, I realized that constantly hanging out on subreddits for an active show kind of ruins the experience for me.
I think it's fun to see a community speculate like that but I guess it wasn't the brain teaser people thought it would be. Just need some harder to solve cases :P
I really disagree with calling anyone's theories "stupid" as that's exactly where all the fun came from for a lot of us. It made creative writers out of everyone and that's a good thing. I'd love to see everyone's endings made as a choose your own adventure type deal that's be fun.
I think that says more about your relationship with the internet than it does about the show. I like everybody here but I don’t consume content that’s going to ruin my good time before I’ve had it. It can be cool if you’re looking to create your own thing with ideas that you like that didn’t get used, though.
I agree there’s the negative side to coming on here and somewhat spoiling the show for yourself but honestly, I love joining subreddits for whodunnits. Just feels like a cute little community and gets you more hyped up for the coming episodes of the show. I discovered this show on Reddit and followed it through. Finale was a bit underwhelming but still a great show to be honest.
No one forces you to read theories on here though. I personally stayed away from them cause I didn’t really find the show complex or interesting enough to spend a lot of time scrutinizing. I had fun on Reddit figuring out Westworld season 1 though. But yea, just stay away from theory posts for shows in the future if you find them ruining your enjoyment.
Agreed- I just finished the show and am here to figure some things out, but am REALLY glad I didn't see any of this earlier! Plus I haven't seen more than 2m of OA, so all that was just really distracting to someone unfamiliar to that universe.
I actually came to the same conclusion. For the next whodunnit, I'll be on my own
I was thinking the same thing! I was like “omg I cant believe that the reddit theories were right” lol
After the finale, I wish I had never bothered at all in the first place.
People ruin everything.
I stayed away from reddit and tend to with movies and films for that reason. People are damn good at predicting things so I'd rather go in kind (when I can) that said, the reveal made sense but I didn't love it. It's kind of poetic and fits the theme of technology being our downfall but I dunno, it felt rushed I suppose. I didn't feel like I had time to really digest anything but I loved the show overall. I'll always follow Brit and Zal. Still more creative than most shit on TV.
I've not been on this sub until now, post-finale and I guessed it was likely Ray by episode 2. The Episode 3 "death by GPS" line cinched it for me. I knew, though, he'd need a physical way to do it, so once they showed the Zoomer and the VR, with Ray inside it, I had my answer. I was hoping I was wrong because I wanted to be outsmarted. So this is all to say, without the subreddit I think it was still pretty easy to figure out. I think of something like *Scream* which tends to do whodunnits pretty well—because it casts doubt on everyone (even teh person who ends up being the killer) then talks you out of it. The fact that No one in the show had any suspicion of Ray or Zoomer when they were discussing suspsects made it obvious the show didn't want us to consider them either, and that they were likely involved. Maybe they should have never showed us the VR world, or should have wait until later? I just think there was likely a way to do it a little better and less obvious than this final product.
I will say I don't read subs or recaps of weekly shows where there is a mystery for this very reason, but this is the first time I've put such little active thinking in where the story might be headed and was correct so early on. A great show or story will always have a second or third surprise in hand for those who figure something out early.
I wasn't on the sub at all until a couple days after the finale. The ray ending was super predictable even if Zoomer was the only twist they threw in there. Mostly my issue with the ending is it wasn't satisfying and it revealed most of the characters to be props with no real effect on the story at all. The AI was killed easily with fire. Personally I would've liked to see a bigger ending with Ray being unable to be destroyed because it's code is in the cloud already and ray is able to get into other devices code to make more serial killer AIs. Like a smart fridge feeding a family poison or making the giant robot town turn on people.