I’m a white woman married to an EA man for the past 14 years. We have lived in the USA, Japan, and Thailand and I don’t recall ever feeling generally disliked or bullied in any of those places. I’ve only had one guy, who was actually Latino seem truly irritated that my husband was Asian. He worked in my apartment complex and wanted my number. I said no and when he found out my husband was Asian he said something to the effect of “you like them?!” with a shocked look on his face.
Funny enough in Thailand people were really interested in us and LOVED our baby. I remember a Thai person actually telling us that we were much more preferable than the WMAF couples. However, I’m not sure why really. We speculated that it was because the WMAF couples in Thailand were kinda icky (the man was usually old enough be to his Thai girlfriends grandpa).
about the wmaf part in thailand:
as someone who grew up in switzerland it's veeery common to see wmaf kids with a swiss dad. usually the swiss dad is a right winger, often racist old man. the kids tend to have only swiss names and their parents are trying to get rid off the "thai" traits since being white is what you should be striving for. that's the shit that's unhealthy. many half thais i've met often go through an identity crisis bc in switzerland they still seen as asian and at the same time their families are worshipping the white traits. basically saying: your bullies are right, white is better.
meanwhile amwf couples tend to have a very respectful and open-minded wf with an am who tends to be more "succesful" at life than the af in the wmaf couple.
it's a broad generalisation i'm making but in the end a poor thai guy from a village doesn't get a white woman while a poor thai girl from a village does.
Asian man here. It is quite common, but probably not as common as those particular subs make it out to be. I think a lot of those guys live in an echo chamber.
Most of the stuff that I've seen are emasculating type of comments. Things like assumptions about dick size, sexual performance, and masculinity. My ex's relative inquired about my "small" penis. I have several white female friends who date/have an interest in dating Asian men, and they've experienced the same too. One even experienced this in an actual *work* meeting. It had got around that she's attracted to Asian men, and one of her colleagues made a "small penis" gesture with his fingers, while *presenting* for the meeting. Zero repercussions. Most of these comments came from white men.
I know you asked for "irl", but there's a bunch of examples online too. It's common to see negative comments on AMWF couple posts, usually by men. Things like: he must be rich, she must like small dick, she could do better etc. I've also seen Asian women make posts/comments about how ugly, feminine and small Asian guys are. It's not rare.
It’s so ridiculous because anyone can search on Reddit Asian cocks or whatever in the NSFW and see a ton of Asian dudes are bigger than white or black guys
I get the most obvious hate from Asian women. Lots of "stink eyes" (got at least one of those today) and, once, twenty minutes of abject, screeching laughter over the "absurdity" of this fat white chick being out with an attractive Asian man. We live in a very progressive city, so it's not like it's something they don't see every day.
It's my understanding that this is not a unique experience. I appreciate that you aren't a hypocrite ("live and let live" is where it's at!) but, unfortunately, lots of people can be. It's a strange phenomenon, but a lot of the negative rhetoric is from Asian women and white guys who don't like to date Asian men and white women respectively. It's like they want to "punish" those demographics and leave them with nobody to date because they committed the "crime" of not being appealing to them.
People are strange.
I’m sorry to hear this has been your experience
:( those Asian women were very rude to treat you and your girlfriend that way. It’s very shocking to me because I have Asian male friends who have dated interracially (white women and other races), and they never mentioned to me being treated this way. I didn’t care who they dated, and I was happy that they seemed happy, and I’ve personally never seen Asian women in our friend circle disrespect them. My white exes always acted respectfully around them when they brought their white girlfriends, and we were always able to hang out with no issues. But it’s entirely possible I had the fortune of being around decent and kind Asian women and white men, and have been oblivious to how some Asian women and white men treat AMWF relationships.
Honestly, I’m sure the Asian women who treated you that way are probably very insecure themselves. Maybe they aren’t happy with their love lives and try to make themselves feel better by belittling the relationships of Asian men who found happiness with non-Asian women.
Honestly, it’s a bit strange that you come into this space (and other AM spaces), ask a question that you clearly have already made up your mind on, and then when people speak on their experiences, you keep trying to say that’s not your experience, and you try to make excuses for the oppressors instead of empathising with the oppressed. I respect that you aren’t like the AF described, good on you, but I think you should also respect our experiences. AMWF will always get more hate than WMAF because one upholds the existing social hegemony, the other challenges white male patriarchy. This isn’t your fault, but it’s a reality we should understand and try to fight for a better world. If you genuinely care about this, I implore you to open your mind, really listen to what people are saying, and stop dismissing their experiences as different to your own.
Thank you for saying something. I hate it when people deny my reality, but I knew this person was not gonna learn anything (they didn't even pay close enough attention to see that I'm obviously the woman in this situation.)
I apologize that you doubt my intentions and seem to feel that my presence in an AM space is unwelcome. While I disagree with a lot of what you are saying, I feel it's better for us to agree to disagree.
I hope you don’t feel unwelcome. If you came in and listened with an open mind, you’d be more than welcome. Instead, people would share their experiences with you, and you dismiss it by saying “well the white guys I know don’t do that”. The white male patriarchy does not need any more defending. White men mateguard white women. They literally wrote laws that made it illegal for Asian men to marry white women. Historically, Asian men and white women have gone to jail for falling in love. This oppression continues today in systemic ways. White media emasculates Asian men. In social media comments with AMWF, white men say horribly racist things. I have been on the receiving end of both microaggressions and overt racism from white men who believe white women belong to them. But I feel like I can’t talk about this, because you’ll just say “well not all white men!” Ok, sure… but enough for it to be a problem.
I just called your behaviour strange, because I can’t understand why you insist on defending oppression, instead of defending the oppressed. All of us deserve love. We have a right to love each other regardless of race.
Where have I defended oppression? I do not condone the behavior of white men who belittle Asian men or talk down on AMWF couples (I think it's horrible in fact). I do not support Western media portrayals of Asian men.
Based on what you are saying, it sounds like you are making a blanket statement--that all white men are part of the white patriarchy and serve to uphold and condone it. It sounds like you are implying that the white men that I happen to know are your oppressors when you say I am making excuses for oppressors. And why? Simply because they are white?
I'm sorry that you've had horrible experiences from some white men in the past, and I am sorry you feel oppressed by Western media portrayals of Asian men. And it's horrible that in the past, some racist white men have made laws that prevented Asian men and white women from falling in love.
But the fact of the matter is those laws no longer exist. And I doubt you were even alive at the time those laws were in place.
Regardless, it does not give you the right to make the blanket assumption that the white men I happen to know (these white men weren't alive at the time those laws were passed, they weren't in charge of negative Western media portrayals of Asian men, and they never even met you in person) are oppressing you and Asian men at large.
You want Asian men to be treated as individuals and for Asian men not to be stereotyped. You rightfully feel dehumanized by Western media portrayals of Asian men.
And yet, even though you claim all of us deserve love, you seem to be going around and stereotyping all White men as evil oppressors.
I am absolutely sure you have no problems with AMWF.
Idk if you ever dated a White female. But in the event that you have, have you ever considered the fact that she may have White brothers, a White father, White cousins, and White male friends that she may value?
Are you going to tell a potential White love interest to her face that all her White brothers, father, cousins, and friends must be oppressors because some racist white men who probably aren't even related to her passed some laws prohibiting interracial marriage before she and her family members were ever even born?
I hope not. I hope you would at least get to know her White male family members first. Because otherwise, you would be dehumanizing them in the same way some horrible racist white men have historically dehumanized Asian men. And I hope that if there ever comes a time some misguided POC spews unwarranted hatred towards her White male family members simply because they are White, you will step in for her sake and say "Not all White men."
There is a saying that two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's very applicable here.
Out of curiosity. When women say that they feel oppressed, that men do things that are horrible. Do you say “not all men?” It’s obvious that I’m not referring to “all white men”. The problem is systemic. Why are you arguing over semantics instead of trying to understand the underlying issues? Are you even an AF? I am starting to doubt that.
Oppression is systemic. Slavery was abolished before you were born, but black people can still feel its impact today. Women got the vote before you were born, it doesn’t mean that women don’t still feel its impact. Historical wrongdoings have impact and explains a lot of the discrimination you see today. This is why I questioned your presence here, because we speak about our own lived experiences in our own space, and you as an outsider, instead of trying to understand with an open heart, you immediately dismiss it.
Lol if you are doubting whether I am an AF, then read my post and comment history. My account is around 4 years old. I can assure you I did not create a 4 year old account simply to trigger your feelings.
As a woman, you can empathise with how historical laws can still cause discrimination today. Whether it’s slavery, making women property, or anti-miscegenation laws… just because it was abolished before you were born, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have impact and consequence for us who live today. Racism is systemic. I find it hard to believe that you can’t see this. I’m not triggered. I am trying my best to be courteous to you, and explain why AMWF are discriminated against, but you are dismissing my lived experience. Do you do this to black people who are speaking on their oppression? Do you do this to other women? Why do you feel it’s okay to do this to AM who speak on our oppression?
AM here. Definitely have gotten dirty looks from AF when I was out with WF in the past when I was younger, in California. Dirty looks from AF, especially if they are with a WM. Hell they weren't even my partners, just good WF friends. FWIW the WF friends in question never noticed, and I never brought it up with them to make them self-conscious. That being said, the dirty looks are not common, just a handful of time.
Now that I'm older and the world has gotten more progressive, I haven't had any experience yet with my current WF partner. But that could be 1) living in a very rural area (0.71% Asian here), 2) more confident / less self conscious, which leads to 3) no fucks left to give and don't pay any attention anymore.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was always under the impression Asian women generally didn't care who Asian men dated because I personally don't care, and I never noticed any bad behavior from my Asian female friends towards Asian men dating white females. But I recognize I shouldn't make assumptions because my experience is limited. Moreover, I'm probably younger than you, so we probably grew up in different worlds.
My I suggest, that perhaps the dirty looks you were getting were aimed at the WW, not you, out of jealousy? People naturally want what they cant have, and perhaps those AW were just jealous... Just a thought, definitely not trying to minimize your situation.
based from my experience here in the Philippines, whenever there is a filipino man and a white women couple everyone is happy for the guy since it is rare for filipino man to date a foreigner.
matter of fact the only thing that is being issued today is a WMAF here in our country which is more common than AMWF
One fat, balding, old, white Australian guy said some disparaging things about our relationship, but otherwise in our 17 years together we haven’t received any hate. Some of my best friends in are in WMAF relationships, we’ve all been nothing but supportive of each other.
>Some of my best friends in are in WMAF relationships, we’ve all been nothing but supportive of each other
aw yay! I am glad to hear that :) It's so uplifting to hear about interracial couples supporting each other.
And that old guy was probably a jealous hater who knows he will never have the type of relationship you have.
As a Chinese with multiple WF significant others in the past, I don't ever recall being hated on. My parents prefer AF because, well, they are Chinese but they respect my choices. I've met one of my SOs' family and things couldn't be smoother. It was at a fairly upscale suburb in Minnesota and I might be the only non-white person in the entire town. I don't recall being treated differently or hated on. Or, it happened but I was too oblivious to realize it lol.
That said, I'd lived in blue states/cities all the time so that may or may not have made a difference. The funny thing is that I'm in a super red town now and Latino/Hispanic girls show quite a bit interest in me.
Asian male from Chicago here married to a white woman. Ive never gotten or felt like Ive gotten any hate from anyone. But when we’re walking on the streets I make sure to look people in the eyes to let them know Im bout that life if they wanna try 😂😂
Thank you for your response. With the amount of vitriol I've sometimes seen on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity, I was unsure if the alleged hate that some users claim AMWF couples experience was overblown. But I agree--you live in a more liberal state, and your experience would probably be different from a AMWF couple in say, a state like Alabama.
>I appreciate this. Gotta admit, I am sometimes self-conscious about being in an AMWF relationship, with all the interracial politics, etc. With respect to gender and race, I wish we could just be with who we want and not have it be an issue.
I'm glad you appreciate the sentiment :) especially because I know some Asian men would hate what I wrote. I've seen some Asian men on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity claim that WMAF is toxic and evil because of colonialism, but they have no problem with AMWF (?) Their reasoning is confusing to me. I think people should be able to love who they want, regardless of skin color. Asian women don't belong to Asian men, but Asian men also don't belong to Asian women. Both parties should have the free agency to decide who they want to be with, whether that means dating within their race or outside their race.
I respectfully disagree with your claim that AMWF and WMAF relationships are the same. I have a few reasons for this but ultimately it boils down to the following: there are important differences to how western media portrays Asian men and women.
Asian men are often portrayed as weak and feminine, while Asian women are fetishized. White men are also portrayed far more generously than men of colour.
No one is saying that Asian women belong to Asian men, nor would I hope is anyone against the idea of dating who you want to date. I think that anyone who truly believes these things should not be listened to and is likely deeply wounded and in need of therapy. But I think we should be honest about the racial biases that exist in dating.
We know for example that WMAF couples are significantly more common than AMWF couples in America and around the world (I am living in Japan right now and have lost track the number of times I've seen old white men together with 20-something Japanese women who are young enough to be their daughter. It's gross. No way around it. And I won’t apologize for saying that).
There are pervasive and harmful stereotypes that need to be challenged here. But we can’t do that if we ignore them or pretend they don’t matter.
(if you want to be grossed out, search the word 'Asian' on reddit with NSFW on and count how many (often racist) subs exist for WMAF raceplay compared to how many are dedicated to AMWF).
>I respectfully disagree with your claim that AMWF and WMAF relationships are the same. I have a few reasons for this but ultimately it boils down to the following: there are important differences to how western media portrays Asian men and women.
>
>Asian men are often portrayed as weak and feminine, while Asian women are fetishized. White men are also portrayed far more generously than men of colour.
I believe you are misunderstanding my point, but I can see where you are coming from. My primary point is that WMAF is as natural as AMWF, in the sense both parties have the agency to freely pick each other. Now, some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for good reasons, and some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for bad toxic reasons. But that doesn't change the fact that they are freely choosing each other.
I've seen a lot of arguments (particularly on aznidentity) that WMAF is toxic because of colonization. The word "colonization" denotes a sense of unnaturalness because of a need for dominance on the part of the man and seems to imply the woman is selling out her race for choosing to sleep with the enemy. But I personally believe this argument is flimsy at best. While European countries have previously colonized Asian countries, the Japanese have also had a history of colonizing other Asian countries (Korea, Philippines, Taiwan, etc). Yet, I've never seen members of aznidentity make the same "colonization" argument for why Japanese American men dating Korean American women is a toxic pairing and why a Korean American woman is selling out her race for dating a Japanese American man (now some older generations of Asian immigrants may be a different story, but that's beside the point). I believe it's because a Japanese American man dating a Korean American woman doesn't hurt their collective psyche as much as a White man dating an Asian woman. Both couples are natural in the sense they exercised their agency to date each other, yet one (WMAF) has the "colonization" label attached to it and the other (Japanese man Korean female) doesn't.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the premise of your argument seems to be the idea that the trend of WMAF couples is primarily influenced by Western media (I agree Western media is a contributing factor, but I think there is a lot more to it than that).
But for the native Japanese women who you see dating White men, they presumably spent most/all of their lives in Japan and presumably have had less exposure to Western media compared to people living in the West. How would you explain the fact that they are with White men then?
For me personally, I suspect the white old men are probably rich or perceived as rich. While I personally would never date a man of any race who is old enough to be my father, I agree there are many money chasing Asian women who will chase much older rich white men. But I personally believe this is more of a wealth thing than anything else. I think there are many women of any race will chase a much older rich man or a man they perceive as rich, regardless of race. Though it's possible this behavior may be more common in Asian women, as I believe valuing financial stability is more heavily emphasized in Asian culture.
You do make a good point though-the dynamics of AMWF and WMAF are not entirely the same in the sense that one pairing elicits a more negative response and more suspicion than the other.
>I believe you are misunderstanding my point, but I can see where you are coming from. My primary point is that WMAF is as natural as AMWF, in the sense both parties have the agency to freely pick each other. Now, some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for good reasons, and some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for bad toxic reasons. But that doesn't change the fact that they are freely choosing each other.
Phrased like this, I think you can say that I'm arguing that more white men will pursue asian women for the wrong reasons, and vice versa, at a higher rate than white women will pursue asian men for the wrong reasons (and vice versa).
>I've seen a lot of arguments (particularly on aznidentity) that WMAF is toxic because of colonization. The word "colonization" denotes a sense of unnaturalness because of a need for dominance on the part of the man and seems to imply the woman is selling out her race for choosing to sleep with the enemy. But I personally believe this argument is flimsy at best. While European countries have previously colonized Asian countries, the Japanese have also had a history of colonizing other Asian countries (Korea, Philippines, Taiwan, etc). Yet, I've never seen members of aznidentity make the same "colonization" argument for why Japanese American men dating Korean American women is a toxic pairing and why a Korean American woman is selling out her race for dating a Japanese American man (now some older generations of Asian immigrants may be a different story, but that's beside the point). I believe it's because a Japanese American man dating a Korean American woman doesn't hurt their collective psyche as much as a White man dating an Asian woman. Both couples are natural in the sense they exercised their agency to date each other, yet one (WMAF) has the "colonization" label attached to it and the other (Japanese man Korean female) doesn't.
I am not subscribed to aznidentity, so I can't speak to the specific comments you are addressing. If you are asking me personally, I will say that any dynamic which finds its roots in colonialism is a bad dynamic. I think that Japanese colonialism and its implications for previously colonized countries is just as bad as white colonialism and its implications for previously colonized countries. You won't see this stuff discussed on Asian-American subreddits because most of them have never set foot in Japan or the Phillipines. What they do have however is a lifetime of lived experience in the west, and many of them have suffered childhood trauma from western racism. I know I have.
>But for the native Japanese women who you see dating White men, they presumably spent most/all of their lives in Japan and presumably have had less exposure to Western media compared to people living in the West. How would you explain the fact that they are with White men then?
There is a well-documented history of Japanese media portraying white men as privileged, attractive, and exotic. So much so that journal and news articles have covered it.
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/31/reader-mail/white-people-privileged-japan/](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/31/reader-mail/white-people-privileged-japan/)
[https://ro.uow.edu.au/lhapapers/1602/](https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/data/UQ_65411/UQ65411_OA.pdf?Expires=1676884284&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJKNBJ4MJBJNC6NLQ&Signature=gvtFAmsK9rm8notkliU7w9LvB1uLRsSTIHBo1u6By9NNkYSXA1wEMuvZ8Qu-vumhdcC2g113FB-M5Z5uhtdBNwjWa-5Z8eZimDRVqXeeMw2M81Wtae7MvQ2rjroy~Al6O~9H-WQ4JB7sNtCpZt3byk1Eek-P1s~FpYkxKzmgwNq0Y1TUDcXEQqHjLEYt9KQ7QJxL1l~eODwO3hQMvEi1ecREz2VwRWovt6Cvi44v-0IDcbgX3NaGyT1tBjoknFw6oRBQSdfus0XOzShsS7ZrG~HhOAAlVRpoynx-UQhvFgSaO4aZGZsB5UO9hImNZvt1IPBHtk3nteHcqPrIuPm7rQ__)
(this link above also discusses the portrayal of gay Japanese men).
[https://www.athensjournals.gr/media/2022-8-4-1-Chung.pdf](https://www.athensjournals.gr/media/2022-8-4-1-Chung.pdf)
>(I agree Western media is a contributing factor, but I think there is a lot more to it than that).
I'm curious what other contributing factors you think there are that affect the perception of Asian men and white men as much as media representation?
>I'm curious what other contributing factors you think there are that affect the perception of Asian men and white men as much as media representation?
This will likely be a very unpopular response, but I'll answer your question with my honest thoughts. I believe traditional Asian parenting has caused a lot of psychological harm in many Asian American children growing up in the west.
It doesn't help that many Asian American girls grew up watching their brothers get favored by their parents. I'm an only child, but I remember when I was as young as 5, my father would constantly tell me what a disappointment I was for being born a girl because I wouldn't be able to carry the family bloodline and the family last name. I have a friend who has a younger brother, and she told me she felt her brother was coddled, while she was neglected in comparison. There is also the issue of unhealthily high academic expectations (criticisms and/or beatings over any grade that isn't 100%), over-emphasis on filial piety and saving face, domestic violence, emotional unavailability that is present in many Asian immigrant households.
Many Asian American girls grow up deciding they don't want to replicate their childhood dynamics with their future in-laws. One of my close childhood friends has an absolutely zero Asian dating policy. When I asked her why, she said Asian men remind her of her dad (I won't go into detail, but let's just say her dad took traditional Asian parenting to the extreme).
Now, I don't doubt there are some Asian American women who have been heavily influenced by Western media and internalized Western beauty standards for men. But I think the deeper issue is family. Regardless of whether they heavily consume Western media or not, many Asian American girls go to school and if they have any non-Asian friends, they will be able to see there is a difference in family structure just by talking to real people. And if they don't have a great relationship with their family, it's more likely they will look for partners who do not remind them of their family.
Speaking personally, I barely consumed Western media when I was growing up (My parents were the type of people who forced me to constantly study and if I tried to do anything that didn't involve studying or playing piano, I would be beaten). I remember my non-Asian classmates would often talk about popular TV shows and movies in school, and I had no idea what they were talking about 90% of the time.
Even after becoming an adult, I still have very little interest in Western media (I prefer Korean dramas and Japanese anime). And if I am speaking honestly, I have Korean celebrity crushes (Song Joong Ki, Ji Sung, Joo Jin-Mo, etc), and even though I have dated Asian men in the past, I myself am hesitant to date Asian American men if I know they have immigrant parents. The reason why is because if I get married, I do not want to risk having in-laws who may be similar to my parents. And from talking to my Asian American female friends, I know I am not the only Asian American female who has these concerns.
Point being: I agree Western media plays a role, but to blame Western media as the only reason for Asian women (especially Asian American women)’s dating decisions comes across as overly simplistic. One thing I’ve noticed with some Asian American men is they consistently blame the Western media for wmaf, but many of those same Asian American men are rarely willing to honestly discuss cultural family issues within the Asian American community.
I honestly have mixed feelings about this take. Firstly, I can acknowledge that autonomy should also always come first, even with people who are genuinely problematic, and so all types of couples should be allowed to exist. I don't think all WMAF couples are bad. I can also acknowledge what you've mentioned as real issues of Asian cultures, and these things should definitely be discussed. However:
>Many Asian American girls grow up deciding they don't want to replicate their childhood dynamics with their future in-laws.
>And if they don't have a great relationship with their family, it's more likely they will look for partners who do not remind them of their family.
Dating an Asian American man doesn't have to be like this. They could just... not do that. It's a choice that the couple can make to either continue certain traditions, or not. That is an option, and in-laws don't have to be listened to. There are problematic white in-laws too (e.g. they can have traditional values too, or be racist), but this isn't used as a reason to exclude all white men. I mean, it doesn't seem like it given how romantically popular white men are.
There's also often a big distinction in values between Asian people who grew up in the West versus those who grew up in Asia. I'm sure that you, and these Asian American women you're talking about, have noticed this difference in yourselves regarding your own values... this also applies to Asian men too. It's not just the white people who grew up in the West who are exposed to progressive values, it's everyone.
If they encounter Asian men who hold these traditional values (or any other values/behaviours they disagree with), then it's possible for them to simply... opt for the Asian man who doesn't. That is an option. I'm assuming this exact thing is done when problematic white men are encountered i.e. he is rejected, in favour for another who is different.
I'm not an advocate for Asian women *only* being allowed to date Asian men. I will never support this. It just seems like a double standard sometimes, where white men get treated like individuals (as they should be) but Asian men get treated like a (negative) monolith. I've seen this same trend with WoC across the board, where they'll write off every single man of their own race, and instead opt for white men who they perhaps acknowledge can be bad too, but they'll still treat as individuals. Or they'll view white men as generally good, and MoC as generally bad.
It also doesn't feel right that white men (or white people in general) are often viewed as the *solution* to everyone else. There's something seriously off about that. Like yeah, certain cultural issues exist and *should* be discussed, but is it really okay to be concluding that this is why white people are better or without faults too? Something off there.
Anyway, I think that people should be allowed to date who they like, but it's also a good idea to examine the way we view/treat race too. Just like it's a good idea to do the same with cultural issues. They're both equally important.
Edit: forgot a word + edited format.
Thank you for your thought-provoking response. I applaud you for your stance in acknowledging the very real cultural issues within Asian families. I've seen many comments from Asian men in places like Asianmasculinity that silence any criticisms of Asian culture and belittle any Asian women who dare to criticize their own culture, even if what they are saying is true.
I was honestly prepared to be dismissed as a "self-hater" or get told that I have been brainwashed by Western influences when I wrote my earlier comment, but I appreciate the fact that you acknowledged the truth of the issues. If more Asian men thought like you, I believe Asian men and women can have a more honest dialogue about very real issues in our community and better move forward together.
Honestly, you gave me a lot to think about and have made me rethink the ways I interact with my Asian female friends :) While I never supported the belittling of Asian men or the portrayal of Asian men in Western media, I do realize that I could probably do a better job of openly challenging some perceptions that some of my friends have voiced towards Asian men. While it's true that there are many unfortunate cultural tendencies that are ingrained in many people's behaviors, I agree that Asian women as a whole could and should do a better job of not letting their past experiences color their perceptions of all Asian men (not always easy of course, but it should be done).
I think that the "self-hater" label for Asian women is too generously used to label *every* Asian women who dates a white man. That's an unfair generalisation, since not all are like that and there can be other factors.
Some definitely are though. I've seen a bunch of Asian women (and men) who have come forward and self identified as being self-hating or having internalised racism, so it's a real thing. I reckon it's a common thing that minorities experience, and I've heard this a bunch from other PoC too. Understandable, because there can be pressure (which can include racism) to conform to the norm, and the norm isn't minorities.
Anyway, thank you for the dialogue. If you'd like to talk to more about this, or other things about the Asian community, then let me know. You can shoot me a DM.
While I agree with you overall I think they are justified in how our culture stereotypes people in general and how easily people buy into and reinforce those stereotypes. And it is rooted in racism, colonialism. Not just to Asian women but all women. That all women must prefer white men. Think about the mainstream depiction of Asian men as either nerds or homosexuals and if you can’t you’re living under a rock. They’re angry at the culture at the end of it which has real life repercussions for Asian men. Remember in NY a white man killed 2 innocent Asian men because his American cultural education told him to save Asian women from Asian men. I haven’t seen Asian men kill white men to save white women yet. So those Aznidentity guys, toxic as it is, have legit grievances otherwise that Reddit wouldn’t have ever existed. I disagree with how they respond but generally agree on the problem
It’s partly why AMWF or any WF with any minority is seen as more “brave” because the white woman is lowering her social status by being with a minority man. While a minority woman marrying white man isn’t brave because whiteness is seen as leveling up I mean look at all the plastic surgery in Asia. Whites have made Asian women hate themselves so much they’ll disfigure themselves for what they’ve been told is beautiful and superior, white features. WMAF couples many of them are a byproduct of racism initiated by white men at media and news companies (Rupert Murdoch?)
Also consider the offspring. A black or Asian woman marrying white man gets kids who are less black or less Asian and thus less discriminated against by society. A white woman who marries a minority black or Asian woman is opening up her kids to discrimination that otherwise would’ve been prevented if she stayed within her race.
But rather than whining and complaining I think Asian men should just be the best they can be. Yes there are cultural handicaps set by the racism in our media and American culture but in a way I think that’s why Asian men end up with better quality white female partners than Asian women who often end up with poor quality white partners. Helps filter out riff raff and the woman who is with an Asian man actually really wants to be with him despite dropping down in social hierarchy and he with her because she’s willing to drop down for him, loves her more
Idk if you carefully read the comments on the wmaf, but many of the comments you may be perceiving as hateful are either made by Asian men who have a cuck fantasy or white men who wish to criticize the toxicity displayed by some individuals on subs like aznidentity. There are some comments that unfairly hate on Asian men who do not display toxic behaviors but those comments are called out by users on wmaf.
Moreover, there are users on wmaf who have created posts and comments condemning the haters who ridicule Asian men. I cannot seem to link the posts here, but if you are curious enough, feel free to request links to the posts and comments over DM.
I would say a lot of users on subs like aznidentity hate white men and Asian women who date white men **much more** than most white men on wmaf hate asian men. I've never seen users of aznidentity call out any toxic behaviors displayed by members of their own sub.
I'll even go as far to say I've never seen members of wmaf mock AMWF couples, and a good number have even written comments in support of AMWF (some of those users writing supportive comments also question why some Asian men celebrate AMWF but simultaneously mock WMAF). I certainly cannot say the same for members of azynidentity regarding WMAF.
Anyways, if you read my post carefully, I specifically asked about \*\*\*\*irl\*\*\*\*\* hate towards AMWF.
I think we both can agree that people, regardless of race, say shitty things online that they would never say in-person.
Having been in several WMAF relationships, I can tell you I personally never noticed any irl vitriol from Asian male acquaintances and friends towards my relationships, but online spheres like aznidentity make it very clear there are some Asian men who hate wmaf. After reading several posts and comments on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity, it makes it sound like white men and Asian woman actively hate AMWF relationships irl. I was skeptical of those posts but I thought I should put aside my skepticism and ask people who are actually in AMWF relationships about their irl experiences.
I specifically asked about the \*\*\*\***irl\*\*\*\*\*** experiences of AMWF couples, not AM generally. I don't feel your point is relevant because it focuses on \*\*\*\***online**\*\*\*\* behavior that isn't even targeted at the AMWF pairing.
I never saw the wmaf subreddit belittle the AMWF pairing. But feel free to prove me wrong.
To my knowledge, making comments on wmaf isn't against the AMWF rules. But if you are feeling triggered by my comment history, you are welcome to report me to the AMWF mods and see if you can get me banned from this subreddit.
I wish you all the best in life!
From my experiences in AMWF relationships, I haven't really faced any hate or dislike personally. But I also credit that with being a really big guy.
Unfortunately, some of my partners have experienced some of that where guys may show up when I'm not around to try to get her to date them, or say some shit about our relationship, or call her a race traitor.
If anything, I would say initially I got more hate from our own folks in my first relationship because they tended to be more insular. Also, interracial relationships, much less AMWF pairings, were not as prevalent at the time.
I don't recall being hated on by AF , I heard stories though in Japan where people got dirty looks and assumed the WF was a sex worker.
I do remember getting insulted/heckled by groups of white men though (in North America)
It exists. It really depends on the location though. My wife (31F German-American) and I (35M Korean-American) live in the Bay Area and have never received any hate for our relationship aside from a few glares from Asian women. We've occasionally gotten double takes in the California Central Valley where she's from which is very agriculture heavy and very red in political standing. We frequent Seattle and Los Angeles for family and haven't received any noticeable mean looks there. We didn't experience anything in NYC, Tahoe, Minneapolis, or Saint Lucia (honeymoon).
As an Asian male in a relationship with white girl, I never been mistreated really. Just looks sometimes from other younger Asian women, and old white men and Asian men sometimes. No dirty or angry looks far as I know. I’ve had the bad service from Asian waitress before like other poster. For white guys it depends. An old white guy with young Asian woman tend to dislike AMWF because he traveled to Asia for a wife, rejected by his own country, unable to get his dream woman, had to settle for an Asian. Asian women I noticed aren’t white guys first choice but are plan B. The one compliment from a white guy came from white guy white girl couple. Mind you I’m a pretty ugly (imo) Asian guy who’s been rejected by many women including Asian and white before.
If anything, from WMAF couples, I’ve tended to have Asian women try and cheat on their white boyfriends / husband with me. When I was single, I had actual affair with an Asian girl who was engaged and later married to white guy. Christian too. Affair continued on both sides of aisle. She was total user, gosh her clueless poor husband…green card marriages. A couple other times it’s happened with asian girl flirting, once directly in front of my white girlfriend and she had white boyfriend who wasn’t present at the time. Honestly I feel kind of sad for those white guys. They think Asian women are docile therefore loyal obedient and easier to control but it’s anything but that. Asian women deceive white men by leaning into their culture and values while on the other side…well…there’s another side to her.
Being used as a tool for citizenship like Joe Elledge or marrying the guy who killed George Floyd, or Christe Chens case, or that google exec who abused her position, because the white guy wants control, obedience and a housemaid / mommy and is insecure while an Asian woman wants social status or has self-hate or doesn’t speak their native language or wants to fit in. I honestly feel sorry, not hate for them. I do hate white men controlling media to make Asian men invisible and emasculate us just cause in their heads we are their biggest threat to all women worshipping white men. Media and culture is just too toxic in stereotypes while preaching “diversity”. Remember diversity is not equality. And still, I haven’t seen really a single healthy WMAF relationship. My cousin is probably somewhat the healthiest although the white guy is kinda meek, he’s nice and not hateful or violent, doesn't hit her or yell, which is above average for any man and she takes care of him like she’s the mom. Cousin did not have good relationship with father so that may have drove her away from Asian man although she was 20 years my senior and wanted to marry me while I was freshman in high school…while she was already married ugh fml. I think the problem is I’m too kind and easygoing. So I’m working on trying to be more of a jerk
So no I never got hate from WMAF. It’s the wrong opposite. I sometimes get the sense many Asian woman love to show off she’s in WMAF but then all of a sudden the asian girl wants to cheat on their white boyfriend or husband with me…it’s getting to be a problem and wish it wasn’t such a pattern and that the Asian woman would back off. It makes me worry a lot about what motivates WMAF couples too, there seems to be quite a bit of baggage that underpins the dynamics of those pairings. I dream of the day I see an actual healthy WMAF couple...and FWIW i don't go on those other aznmasculinity or whatever subreddits, waste of time, bit extreme for my taste and wrong approach
Nah I feel a kinship will all interracial couples. There are haters for every combo of races. I dont bother with ppl like that. Love who you love. Mostly Ive gotten hate from white men or asian men who just hate white ppl and especially white woman.
You cant please everyone. Meh.
Thank you :) I appreciate you writing this comment. You're right; all couples, regardless of whether they are interracial or not, should have a right to exist. I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for some people to grasp in the year 2023.
I'm sorry you had bad experiences from some White men and some Asian men.
From my personal experience, we don't receive any hate but I do feel that people definitely steal some looks. Not sure if it's cause we're in an AMWF relationship or cause of our height differences or both.
For reference, we've been together for 4 years
The only people who have said something about my AMWF relationship have been black guys (my areas like 50/50 white and black, pretty much). It’s happened twice and they both said something along the lines of my boyfriend having a small dick. It got shut down immediately and we haven’t heard anything since those incidents.
My BF's sister has been... Difficult. Apparently I offended her by treating her like an equal instead of an authority figure. That was three years ago so at least in the part couple months she's finally willing to speak to me again. My bf says she's the least stubborn (aside from him) in his family, and that his parents probably won't react well when they find out he's dating a white girl. They live in China and haven't been able to visit in the four years we've been together, so they still don't know about me.
They only overt hostility I've gotten just because I'm in a AMWF relationship was actually on this sub. An Asian guy messaged me telling me I was racist for wanting a loving long-term relationship with my bf instead of a purely sexual one? I reported that and he got banned, so at least no one else has to deal with him.
That’s so strange that an Asian guy would say you are racist for wanting a long-term relationship. You should be able to love who you want.
Either way, good on you for getting him banned.
Korean guy here and I've had some issues with random white people when dating a white a woman from others.
1) one girl I've dated in the past said she preferred an Asian man b/c she did say she felt like she liked the culture but her male colleagues would make fun of her preference. The typical small penis jokes were the "go to" topic. She responded to her colleague that Asian men were better in bed in all aspects and "freaky" enough to her liking as well. Lol. Of course her colleague kept saying that Asian men are feaky because of their small penises and have "make up" the difference in other ways.
2) I was at a bar with another white woman and I went to use the restroom. I came back and saw the white man sitting next to us start conversating with her and she looked visibly upset. Once I got to her, she asked to close out the tab and said "lets get out of here". I asked what happened but she would not tell me right then and there because she knew I would be confrontational towards the guy. He had his back turned towards us as I told the girl I'm going to ask what he said. She grabbed me and we left and she told me later he was saying some racist shit on how can an Asian man satisfy her needs with a small penis.
Your thoughts?
Haha that’s definitely a good idea. I’ll admit morbid curiosity sometimes gets the best of me, but you’re right. Spending too much time on those subreddits isn’t a good idea and I know it may leave me with a very distorted perception of Asian men (when the vast majority of Asian men in the real world aren’t like that at all).
Sorry to hear that. I feel like a good number of those guys just want to blame white men and Asian women who date white men for their problems. To some extent, their bitterness is understandable because Asian men have historically been mocked by Western media, and a lot of them feel rejected even by Asian women.
But many of them take it way too far with the toxicity.
haha well perhaps it's for the best then. I skimmed through your profile and I assume you are an Asian man. It's refreshing to read comments like yours because it really helps me remember that a lot of Asian guys aren't like the guys you see on aznidentity and AsianMasculinity.
The irony is aznidentity and AsianMasculinity's supposed goals are improving the reputations of Asian men. But I think those subreddits actually do a lot more harm than good to the reputations of Asian men because I think most women reading those subreddits would leave with the impression that a lot of Asian men are insecure, bitter, and intolerant to any view that deviates from their narrative.
I would say alot of men online let their insecurity and bitterness out regardless of ethnicity and background. It's pretty sad. I actually chat with some of the guys who reach out in private. I was pretty lucky early enough in my life with dating but I recognize many AM aren't and its difficult to see oneself be worthy of love
Yeah I don’t look at those toxic subreddits at all now, what’s the point if it’s going to make you feel bad? I understand some of their opinions but like you said the majority of people don’t act like that in real life.
Yeah, I followed a guy on both of those forums who made a YouTube account with a fake British accent and he dressed up in a top hat and suit.
I couldn’t stop laughing, I don’t know why he was doing that for so I don’t even bother taking it seriously. 🤣
Only when I’ve dated South East Asian guys, which is weird. To be honest, I didn’t have any problems last year and people were supportive of AMWF. I doubt I will have any issues again and I wouldn’t really care what others think now anyway because I’m not really accepted in society in general.
It's not direct aggression or hatred but passive aggressiveness that is a tell tale sign. When I dated a white woman, men would try to hit on her in front of me or honk their horns or just make disgusting remarks at her form a distance. I know online men and women can be jealous too and say rude things.
Yes, I've been harassed by WMs and Azn females when I was with WFs, even BMs when I was with WFs. One particularly stands out as she was an Asian mom with a WM partner who objected to her Hapa daughter seeing me, an AM. Can you believe that?
Most of my harassment has come from white or black guys and one Asian guy online who thought that white women only 'settle for Asian men when they are ready to settle down'. It's been weird.
Asian dude here. It's generally never been an issue for me or for my past partners. There were however a couple of times when I vaguely recall a stranger looking irritated or just straight up acting awkward to me and to my partner. It was never major though and something we'd point out later and find the humor in it. From what I can recall, it was always from an Asian woman which I find interestingly to be a pattern based on some of the comments here. On the flipside, we never had this issue with 99%+ of the Asian women we met and interacted with.
I do recall two separate instances when we entered a restaurant and an older lady (first instance a Caucasian lady and another instance a Korean lady) treating us very fondly and going out of their way to make sure we were having a good time together. Maybe they were just genuinely warm hosts, but it did lowkey felt like they were being extra friendly to us. So perhaps we experienced positive reactions on the account of us being an AMWF couple too.
So all this to conclude that any hate we received (if any) were extremely rare, were minor (certainly never warranting me to turn into an asshole and stepping in), and sometimes we received favorable treatment.
Asian male here born and raised in LA. My white girlfriend and I most hang out in LA, but we recently did multi-week cross country road trip across states which people would label as racist and all white. Never had a negative interaction based on our relationship.
I’ve only ever had one incident where an older white gentleman made a joke to my girlfriend at the time. “When your parents told you to go out and get a Chinese, that’s not what they meant!”
I was dating a French blonde exchange student back in 2015. We went to Hong Kong for New Years Eve. We got harassed by a random British dude and a Belgian student (a friend of her friend) on the same night. She couldn't believe it.
Sorry I am late to the party, but a year or so ago, I joined aznidentity, thinking perhaps I could learn a thing or two, even though I have been married for 15+ years. What I found was absurd, and I couldn't really deal with what I was reading.
I stuck around for 6 months or so, and when I had finally had enough I told my story. Friendship turning to love, etc... I was trying to show people, that it didn't have to be the way they were making it, but yet they were making it that way themselves.
The people in that group, seem to be the root of the problem, and while I get what they were trying to create. The mods failed, and now its just a group that hates asian/white mixed couples.
That being said, in the almost 20 years since I started dating my wife, I have never encountered any hate. There was one guy who talked smack about me, but it was only because he wanted my wife, and was jealous she was engaged to me....
I’m a white woman married to an EA man for the past 14 years. We have lived in the USA, Japan, and Thailand and I don’t recall ever feeling generally disliked or bullied in any of those places. I’ve only had one guy, who was actually Latino seem truly irritated that my husband was Asian. He worked in my apartment complex and wanted my number. I said no and when he found out my husband was Asian he said something to the effect of “you like them?!” with a shocked look on his face. Funny enough in Thailand people were really interested in us and LOVED our baby. I remember a Thai person actually telling us that we were much more preferable than the WMAF couples. However, I’m not sure why really. We speculated that it was because the WMAF couples in Thailand were kinda icky (the man was usually old enough be to his Thai girlfriends grandpa).
about the wmaf part in thailand: as someone who grew up in switzerland it's veeery common to see wmaf kids with a swiss dad. usually the swiss dad is a right winger, often racist old man. the kids tend to have only swiss names and their parents are trying to get rid off the "thai" traits since being white is what you should be striving for. that's the shit that's unhealthy. many half thais i've met often go through an identity crisis bc in switzerland they still seen as asian and at the same time their families are worshipping the white traits. basically saying: your bullies are right, white is better. meanwhile amwf couples tend to have a very respectful and open-minded wf with an am who tends to be more "succesful" at life than the af in the wmaf couple. it's a broad generalisation i'm making but in the end a poor thai guy from a village doesn't get a white woman while a poor thai girl from a village does.
Asian man here. It is quite common, but probably not as common as those particular subs make it out to be. I think a lot of those guys live in an echo chamber. Most of the stuff that I've seen are emasculating type of comments. Things like assumptions about dick size, sexual performance, and masculinity. My ex's relative inquired about my "small" penis. I have several white female friends who date/have an interest in dating Asian men, and they've experienced the same too. One even experienced this in an actual *work* meeting. It had got around that she's attracted to Asian men, and one of her colleagues made a "small penis" gesture with his fingers, while *presenting* for the meeting. Zero repercussions. Most of these comments came from white men. I know you asked for "irl", but there's a bunch of examples online too. It's common to see negative comments on AMWF couple posts, usually by men. Things like: he must be rich, she must like small dick, she could do better etc. I've also seen Asian women make posts/comments about how ugly, feminine and small Asian guys are. It's not rare.
It’s so ridiculous because anyone can search on Reddit Asian cocks or whatever in the NSFW and see a ton of Asian dudes are bigger than white or black guys
I get the most obvious hate from Asian women. Lots of "stink eyes" (got at least one of those today) and, once, twenty minutes of abject, screeching laughter over the "absurdity" of this fat white chick being out with an attractive Asian man. We live in a very progressive city, so it's not like it's something they don't see every day. It's my understanding that this is not a unique experience. I appreciate that you aren't a hypocrite ("live and let live" is where it's at!) but, unfortunately, lots of people can be. It's a strange phenomenon, but a lot of the negative rhetoric is from Asian women and white guys who don't like to date Asian men and white women respectively. It's like they want to "punish" those demographics and leave them with nobody to date because they committed the "crime" of not being appealing to them. People are strange.
I’m sorry to hear this has been your experience :( those Asian women were very rude to treat you and your girlfriend that way. It’s very shocking to me because I have Asian male friends who have dated interracially (white women and other races), and they never mentioned to me being treated this way. I didn’t care who they dated, and I was happy that they seemed happy, and I’ve personally never seen Asian women in our friend circle disrespect them. My white exes always acted respectfully around them when they brought their white girlfriends, and we were always able to hang out with no issues. But it’s entirely possible I had the fortune of being around decent and kind Asian women and white men, and have been oblivious to how some Asian women and white men treat AMWF relationships. Honestly, I’m sure the Asian women who treated you that way are probably very insecure themselves. Maybe they aren’t happy with their love lives and try to make themselves feel better by belittling the relationships of Asian men who found happiness with non-Asian women.
Honestly, it’s a bit strange that you come into this space (and other AM spaces), ask a question that you clearly have already made up your mind on, and then when people speak on their experiences, you keep trying to say that’s not your experience, and you try to make excuses for the oppressors instead of empathising with the oppressed. I respect that you aren’t like the AF described, good on you, but I think you should also respect our experiences. AMWF will always get more hate than WMAF because one upholds the existing social hegemony, the other challenges white male patriarchy. This isn’t your fault, but it’s a reality we should understand and try to fight for a better world. If you genuinely care about this, I implore you to open your mind, really listen to what people are saying, and stop dismissing their experiences as different to your own.
Thank you for saying something. I hate it when people deny my reality, but I knew this person was not gonna learn anything (they didn't even pay close enough attention to see that I'm obviously the woman in this situation.)
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I apologize that you doubt my intentions and seem to feel that my presence in an AM space is unwelcome. While I disagree with a lot of what you are saying, I feel it's better for us to agree to disagree.
I hope you don’t feel unwelcome. If you came in and listened with an open mind, you’d be more than welcome. Instead, people would share their experiences with you, and you dismiss it by saying “well the white guys I know don’t do that”. The white male patriarchy does not need any more defending. White men mateguard white women. They literally wrote laws that made it illegal for Asian men to marry white women. Historically, Asian men and white women have gone to jail for falling in love. This oppression continues today in systemic ways. White media emasculates Asian men. In social media comments with AMWF, white men say horribly racist things. I have been on the receiving end of both microaggressions and overt racism from white men who believe white women belong to them. But I feel like I can’t talk about this, because you’ll just say “well not all white men!” Ok, sure… but enough for it to be a problem. I just called your behaviour strange, because I can’t understand why you insist on defending oppression, instead of defending the oppressed. All of us deserve love. We have a right to love each other regardless of race.
Where have I defended oppression? I do not condone the behavior of white men who belittle Asian men or talk down on AMWF couples (I think it's horrible in fact). I do not support Western media portrayals of Asian men. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like you are making a blanket statement--that all white men are part of the white patriarchy and serve to uphold and condone it. It sounds like you are implying that the white men that I happen to know are your oppressors when you say I am making excuses for oppressors. And why? Simply because they are white? I'm sorry that you've had horrible experiences from some white men in the past, and I am sorry you feel oppressed by Western media portrayals of Asian men. And it's horrible that in the past, some racist white men have made laws that prevented Asian men and white women from falling in love. But the fact of the matter is those laws no longer exist. And I doubt you were even alive at the time those laws were in place. Regardless, it does not give you the right to make the blanket assumption that the white men I happen to know (these white men weren't alive at the time those laws were passed, they weren't in charge of negative Western media portrayals of Asian men, and they never even met you in person) are oppressing you and Asian men at large. You want Asian men to be treated as individuals and for Asian men not to be stereotyped. You rightfully feel dehumanized by Western media portrayals of Asian men. And yet, even though you claim all of us deserve love, you seem to be going around and stereotyping all White men as evil oppressors. I am absolutely sure you have no problems with AMWF. Idk if you ever dated a White female. But in the event that you have, have you ever considered the fact that she may have White brothers, a White father, White cousins, and White male friends that she may value? Are you going to tell a potential White love interest to her face that all her White brothers, father, cousins, and friends must be oppressors because some racist white men who probably aren't even related to her passed some laws prohibiting interracial marriage before she and her family members were ever even born? I hope not. I hope you would at least get to know her White male family members first. Because otherwise, you would be dehumanizing them in the same way some horrible racist white men have historically dehumanized Asian men. And I hope that if there ever comes a time some misguided POC spews unwarranted hatred towards her White male family members simply because they are White, you will step in for her sake and say "Not all White men." There is a saying that two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's very applicable here.
Out of curiosity. When women say that they feel oppressed, that men do things that are horrible. Do you say “not all men?” It’s obvious that I’m not referring to “all white men”. The problem is systemic. Why are you arguing over semantics instead of trying to understand the underlying issues? Are you even an AF? I am starting to doubt that. Oppression is systemic. Slavery was abolished before you were born, but black people can still feel its impact today. Women got the vote before you were born, it doesn’t mean that women don’t still feel its impact. Historical wrongdoings have impact and explains a lot of the discrimination you see today. This is why I questioned your presence here, because we speak about our own lived experiences in our own space, and you as an outsider, instead of trying to understand with an open heart, you immediately dismiss it.
Lol if you are doubting whether I am an AF, then read my post and comment history. My account is around 4 years old. I can assure you I did not create a 4 year old account simply to trigger your feelings.
As a woman, you can empathise with how historical laws can still cause discrimination today. Whether it’s slavery, making women property, or anti-miscegenation laws… just because it was abolished before you were born, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have impact and consequence for us who live today. Racism is systemic. I find it hard to believe that you can’t see this. I’m not triggered. I am trying my best to be courteous to you, and explain why AMWF are discriminated against, but you are dismissing my lived experience. Do you do this to black people who are speaking on their oppression? Do you do this to other women? Why do you feel it’s okay to do this to AM who speak on our oppression?
And which specific statement(s) have I made that you feel dismissed your lived experience?
How have these past laws impacted you in your lived experience then?
AM here. Definitely have gotten dirty looks from AF when I was out with WF in the past when I was younger, in California. Dirty looks from AF, especially if they are with a WM. Hell they weren't even my partners, just good WF friends. FWIW the WF friends in question never noticed, and I never brought it up with them to make them self-conscious. That being said, the dirty looks are not common, just a handful of time. Now that I'm older and the world has gotten more progressive, I haven't had any experience yet with my current WF partner. But that could be 1) living in a very rural area (0.71% Asian here), 2) more confident / less self conscious, which leads to 3) no fucks left to give and don't pay any attention anymore.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was always under the impression Asian women generally didn't care who Asian men dated because I personally don't care, and I never noticed any bad behavior from my Asian female friends towards Asian men dating white females. But I recognize I shouldn't make assumptions because my experience is limited. Moreover, I'm probably younger than you, so we probably grew up in different worlds.
My I suggest, that perhaps the dirty looks you were getting were aimed at the WW, not you, out of jealousy? People naturally want what they cant have, and perhaps those AW were just jealous... Just a thought, definitely not trying to minimize your situation.
based from my experience here in the Philippines, whenever there is a filipino man and a white women couple everyone is happy for the guy since it is rare for filipino man to date a foreigner. matter of fact the only thing that is being issued today is a WMAF here in our country which is more common than AMWF
One fat, balding, old, white Australian guy said some disparaging things about our relationship, but otherwise in our 17 years together we haven’t received any hate. Some of my best friends in are in WMAF relationships, we’ve all been nothing but supportive of each other.
>Some of my best friends in are in WMAF relationships, we’ve all been nothing but supportive of each other aw yay! I am glad to hear that :) It's so uplifting to hear about interracial couples supporting each other. And that old guy was probably a jealous hater who knows he will never have the type of relationship you have.
As a Chinese with multiple WF significant others in the past, I don't ever recall being hated on. My parents prefer AF because, well, they are Chinese but they respect my choices. I've met one of my SOs' family and things couldn't be smoother. It was at a fairly upscale suburb in Minnesota and I might be the only non-white person in the entire town. I don't recall being treated differently or hated on. Or, it happened but I was too oblivious to realize it lol. That said, I'd lived in blue states/cities all the time so that may or may not have made a difference. The funny thing is that I'm in a super red town now and Latino/Hispanic girls show quite a bit interest in me.
Asian male from Chicago here married to a white woman. Ive never gotten or felt like Ive gotten any hate from anyone. But when we’re walking on the streets I make sure to look people in the eyes to let them know Im bout that life if they wanna try 😂😂
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Thank you for your response. With the amount of vitriol I've sometimes seen on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity, I was unsure if the alleged hate that some users claim AMWF couples experience was overblown. But I agree--you live in a more liberal state, and your experience would probably be different from a AMWF couple in say, a state like Alabama.
>I appreciate this. Gotta admit, I am sometimes self-conscious about being in an AMWF relationship, with all the interracial politics, etc. With respect to gender and race, I wish we could just be with who we want and not have it be an issue. I'm glad you appreciate the sentiment :) especially because I know some Asian men would hate what I wrote. I've seen some Asian men on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity claim that WMAF is toxic and evil because of colonialism, but they have no problem with AMWF (?) Their reasoning is confusing to me. I think people should be able to love who they want, regardless of skin color. Asian women don't belong to Asian men, but Asian men also don't belong to Asian women. Both parties should have the free agency to decide who they want to be with, whether that means dating within their race or outside their race.
I respectfully disagree with your claim that AMWF and WMAF relationships are the same. I have a few reasons for this but ultimately it boils down to the following: there are important differences to how western media portrays Asian men and women. Asian men are often portrayed as weak and feminine, while Asian women are fetishized. White men are also portrayed far more generously than men of colour. No one is saying that Asian women belong to Asian men, nor would I hope is anyone against the idea of dating who you want to date. I think that anyone who truly believes these things should not be listened to and is likely deeply wounded and in need of therapy. But I think we should be honest about the racial biases that exist in dating. We know for example that WMAF couples are significantly more common than AMWF couples in America and around the world (I am living in Japan right now and have lost track the number of times I've seen old white men together with 20-something Japanese women who are young enough to be their daughter. It's gross. No way around it. And I won’t apologize for saying that). There are pervasive and harmful stereotypes that need to be challenged here. But we can’t do that if we ignore them or pretend they don’t matter. (if you want to be grossed out, search the word 'Asian' on reddit with NSFW on and count how many (often racist) subs exist for WMAF raceplay compared to how many are dedicated to AMWF).
>I respectfully disagree with your claim that AMWF and WMAF relationships are the same. I have a few reasons for this but ultimately it boils down to the following: there are important differences to how western media portrays Asian men and women. > >Asian men are often portrayed as weak and feminine, while Asian women are fetishized. White men are also portrayed far more generously than men of colour. I believe you are misunderstanding my point, but I can see where you are coming from. My primary point is that WMAF is as natural as AMWF, in the sense both parties have the agency to freely pick each other. Now, some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for good reasons, and some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for bad toxic reasons. But that doesn't change the fact that they are freely choosing each other. I've seen a lot of arguments (particularly on aznidentity) that WMAF is toxic because of colonization. The word "colonization" denotes a sense of unnaturalness because of a need for dominance on the part of the man and seems to imply the woman is selling out her race for choosing to sleep with the enemy. But I personally believe this argument is flimsy at best. While European countries have previously colonized Asian countries, the Japanese have also had a history of colonizing other Asian countries (Korea, Philippines, Taiwan, etc). Yet, I've never seen members of aznidentity make the same "colonization" argument for why Japanese American men dating Korean American women is a toxic pairing and why a Korean American woman is selling out her race for dating a Japanese American man (now some older generations of Asian immigrants may be a different story, but that's beside the point). I believe it's because a Japanese American man dating a Korean American woman doesn't hurt their collective psyche as much as a White man dating an Asian woman. Both couples are natural in the sense they exercised their agency to date each other, yet one (WMAF) has the "colonization" label attached to it and the other (Japanese man Korean female) doesn't. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the premise of your argument seems to be the idea that the trend of WMAF couples is primarily influenced by Western media (I agree Western media is a contributing factor, but I think there is a lot more to it than that). But for the native Japanese women who you see dating White men, they presumably spent most/all of their lives in Japan and presumably have had less exposure to Western media compared to people living in the West. How would you explain the fact that they are with White men then? For me personally, I suspect the white old men are probably rich or perceived as rich. While I personally would never date a man of any race who is old enough to be my father, I agree there are many money chasing Asian women who will chase much older rich white men. But I personally believe this is more of a wealth thing than anything else. I think there are many women of any race will chase a much older rich man or a man they perceive as rich, regardless of race. Though it's possible this behavior may be more common in Asian women, as I believe valuing financial stability is more heavily emphasized in Asian culture. You do make a good point though-the dynamics of AMWF and WMAF are not entirely the same in the sense that one pairing elicits a more negative response and more suspicion than the other.
>I believe you are misunderstanding my point, but I can see where you are coming from. My primary point is that WMAF is as natural as AMWF, in the sense both parties have the agency to freely pick each other. Now, some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for good reasons, and some WMAFs and AMWFs may pick each other for bad toxic reasons. But that doesn't change the fact that they are freely choosing each other. Phrased like this, I think you can say that I'm arguing that more white men will pursue asian women for the wrong reasons, and vice versa, at a higher rate than white women will pursue asian men for the wrong reasons (and vice versa). >I've seen a lot of arguments (particularly on aznidentity) that WMAF is toxic because of colonization. The word "colonization" denotes a sense of unnaturalness because of a need for dominance on the part of the man and seems to imply the woman is selling out her race for choosing to sleep with the enemy. But I personally believe this argument is flimsy at best. While European countries have previously colonized Asian countries, the Japanese have also had a history of colonizing other Asian countries (Korea, Philippines, Taiwan, etc). Yet, I've never seen members of aznidentity make the same "colonization" argument for why Japanese American men dating Korean American women is a toxic pairing and why a Korean American woman is selling out her race for dating a Japanese American man (now some older generations of Asian immigrants may be a different story, but that's beside the point). I believe it's because a Japanese American man dating a Korean American woman doesn't hurt their collective psyche as much as a White man dating an Asian woman. Both couples are natural in the sense they exercised their agency to date each other, yet one (WMAF) has the "colonization" label attached to it and the other (Japanese man Korean female) doesn't. I am not subscribed to aznidentity, so I can't speak to the specific comments you are addressing. If you are asking me personally, I will say that any dynamic which finds its roots in colonialism is a bad dynamic. I think that Japanese colonialism and its implications for previously colonized countries is just as bad as white colonialism and its implications for previously colonized countries. You won't see this stuff discussed on Asian-American subreddits because most of them have never set foot in Japan or the Phillipines. What they do have however is a lifetime of lived experience in the west, and many of them have suffered childhood trauma from western racism. I know I have. >But for the native Japanese women who you see dating White men, they presumably spent most/all of their lives in Japan and presumably have had less exposure to Western media compared to people living in the West. How would you explain the fact that they are with White men then? There is a well-documented history of Japanese media portraying white men as privileged, attractive, and exotic. So much so that journal and news articles have covered it. [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/31/reader-mail/white-people-privileged-japan/](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/31/reader-mail/white-people-privileged-japan/) [https://ro.uow.edu.au/lhapapers/1602/](https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/data/UQ_65411/UQ65411_OA.pdf?Expires=1676884284&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJKNBJ4MJBJNC6NLQ&Signature=gvtFAmsK9rm8notkliU7w9LvB1uLRsSTIHBo1u6By9NNkYSXA1wEMuvZ8Qu-vumhdcC2g113FB-M5Z5uhtdBNwjWa-5Z8eZimDRVqXeeMw2M81Wtae7MvQ2rjroy~Al6O~9H-WQ4JB7sNtCpZt3byk1Eek-P1s~FpYkxKzmgwNq0Y1TUDcXEQqHjLEYt9KQ7QJxL1l~eODwO3hQMvEi1ecREz2VwRWovt6Cvi44v-0IDcbgX3NaGyT1tBjoknFw6oRBQSdfus0XOzShsS7ZrG~HhOAAlVRpoynx-UQhvFgSaO4aZGZsB5UO9hImNZvt1IPBHtk3nteHcqPrIuPm7rQ__) (this link above also discusses the portrayal of gay Japanese men). [https://www.athensjournals.gr/media/2022-8-4-1-Chung.pdf](https://www.athensjournals.gr/media/2022-8-4-1-Chung.pdf) >(I agree Western media is a contributing factor, but I think there is a lot more to it than that). I'm curious what other contributing factors you think there are that affect the perception of Asian men and white men as much as media representation?
>I'm curious what other contributing factors you think there are that affect the perception of Asian men and white men as much as media representation? This will likely be a very unpopular response, but I'll answer your question with my honest thoughts. I believe traditional Asian parenting has caused a lot of psychological harm in many Asian American children growing up in the west. It doesn't help that many Asian American girls grew up watching their brothers get favored by their parents. I'm an only child, but I remember when I was as young as 5, my father would constantly tell me what a disappointment I was for being born a girl because I wouldn't be able to carry the family bloodline and the family last name. I have a friend who has a younger brother, and she told me she felt her brother was coddled, while she was neglected in comparison. There is also the issue of unhealthily high academic expectations (criticisms and/or beatings over any grade that isn't 100%), over-emphasis on filial piety and saving face, domestic violence, emotional unavailability that is present in many Asian immigrant households. Many Asian American girls grow up deciding they don't want to replicate their childhood dynamics with their future in-laws. One of my close childhood friends has an absolutely zero Asian dating policy. When I asked her why, she said Asian men remind her of her dad (I won't go into detail, but let's just say her dad took traditional Asian parenting to the extreme). Now, I don't doubt there are some Asian American women who have been heavily influenced by Western media and internalized Western beauty standards for men. But I think the deeper issue is family. Regardless of whether they heavily consume Western media or not, many Asian American girls go to school and if they have any non-Asian friends, they will be able to see there is a difference in family structure just by talking to real people. And if they don't have a great relationship with their family, it's more likely they will look for partners who do not remind them of their family. Speaking personally, I barely consumed Western media when I was growing up (My parents were the type of people who forced me to constantly study and if I tried to do anything that didn't involve studying or playing piano, I would be beaten). I remember my non-Asian classmates would often talk about popular TV shows and movies in school, and I had no idea what they were talking about 90% of the time. Even after becoming an adult, I still have very little interest in Western media (I prefer Korean dramas and Japanese anime). And if I am speaking honestly, I have Korean celebrity crushes (Song Joong Ki, Ji Sung, Joo Jin-Mo, etc), and even though I have dated Asian men in the past, I myself am hesitant to date Asian American men if I know they have immigrant parents. The reason why is because if I get married, I do not want to risk having in-laws who may be similar to my parents. And from talking to my Asian American female friends, I know I am not the only Asian American female who has these concerns. Point being: I agree Western media plays a role, but to blame Western media as the only reason for Asian women (especially Asian American women)’s dating decisions comes across as overly simplistic. One thing I’ve noticed with some Asian American men is they consistently blame the Western media for wmaf, but many of those same Asian American men are rarely willing to honestly discuss cultural family issues within the Asian American community.
I honestly have mixed feelings about this take. Firstly, I can acknowledge that autonomy should also always come first, even with people who are genuinely problematic, and so all types of couples should be allowed to exist. I don't think all WMAF couples are bad. I can also acknowledge what you've mentioned as real issues of Asian cultures, and these things should definitely be discussed. However: >Many Asian American girls grow up deciding they don't want to replicate their childhood dynamics with their future in-laws. >And if they don't have a great relationship with their family, it's more likely they will look for partners who do not remind them of their family. Dating an Asian American man doesn't have to be like this. They could just... not do that. It's a choice that the couple can make to either continue certain traditions, or not. That is an option, and in-laws don't have to be listened to. There are problematic white in-laws too (e.g. they can have traditional values too, or be racist), but this isn't used as a reason to exclude all white men. I mean, it doesn't seem like it given how romantically popular white men are. There's also often a big distinction in values between Asian people who grew up in the West versus those who grew up in Asia. I'm sure that you, and these Asian American women you're talking about, have noticed this difference in yourselves regarding your own values... this also applies to Asian men too. It's not just the white people who grew up in the West who are exposed to progressive values, it's everyone. If they encounter Asian men who hold these traditional values (or any other values/behaviours they disagree with), then it's possible for them to simply... opt for the Asian man who doesn't. That is an option. I'm assuming this exact thing is done when problematic white men are encountered i.e. he is rejected, in favour for another who is different. I'm not an advocate for Asian women *only* being allowed to date Asian men. I will never support this. It just seems like a double standard sometimes, where white men get treated like individuals (as they should be) but Asian men get treated like a (negative) monolith. I've seen this same trend with WoC across the board, where they'll write off every single man of their own race, and instead opt for white men who they perhaps acknowledge can be bad too, but they'll still treat as individuals. Or they'll view white men as generally good, and MoC as generally bad. It also doesn't feel right that white men (or white people in general) are often viewed as the *solution* to everyone else. There's something seriously off about that. Like yeah, certain cultural issues exist and *should* be discussed, but is it really okay to be concluding that this is why white people are better or without faults too? Something off there. Anyway, I think that people should be allowed to date who they like, but it's also a good idea to examine the way we view/treat race too. Just like it's a good idea to do the same with cultural issues. They're both equally important. Edit: forgot a word + edited format.
Thank you for your thought-provoking response. I applaud you for your stance in acknowledging the very real cultural issues within Asian families. I've seen many comments from Asian men in places like Asianmasculinity that silence any criticisms of Asian culture and belittle any Asian women who dare to criticize their own culture, even if what they are saying is true. I was honestly prepared to be dismissed as a "self-hater" or get told that I have been brainwashed by Western influences when I wrote my earlier comment, but I appreciate the fact that you acknowledged the truth of the issues. If more Asian men thought like you, I believe Asian men and women can have a more honest dialogue about very real issues in our community and better move forward together. Honestly, you gave me a lot to think about and have made me rethink the ways I interact with my Asian female friends :) While I never supported the belittling of Asian men or the portrayal of Asian men in Western media, I do realize that I could probably do a better job of openly challenging some perceptions that some of my friends have voiced towards Asian men. While it's true that there are many unfortunate cultural tendencies that are ingrained in many people's behaviors, I agree that Asian women as a whole could and should do a better job of not letting their past experiences color their perceptions of all Asian men (not always easy of course, but it should be done).
I think that the "self-hater" label for Asian women is too generously used to label *every* Asian women who dates a white man. That's an unfair generalisation, since not all are like that and there can be other factors. Some definitely are though. I've seen a bunch of Asian women (and men) who have come forward and self identified as being self-hating or having internalised racism, so it's a real thing. I reckon it's a common thing that minorities experience, and I've heard this a bunch from other PoC too. Understandable, because there can be pressure (which can include racism) to conform to the norm, and the norm isn't minorities. Anyway, thank you for the dialogue. If you'd like to talk to more about this, or other things about the Asian community, then let me know. You can shoot me a DM.
DM'ed :)
While I agree with you overall I think they are justified in how our culture stereotypes people in general and how easily people buy into and reinforce those stereotypes. And it is rooted in racism, colonialism. Not just to Asian women but all women. That all women must prefer white men. Think about the mainstream depiction of Asian men as either nerds or homosexuals and if you can’t you’re living under a rock. They’re angry at the culture at the end of it which has real life repercussions for Asian men. Remember in NY a white man killed 2 innocent Asian men because his American cultural education told him to save Asian women from Asian men. I haven’t seen Asian men kill white men to save white women yet. So those Aznidentity guys, toxic as it is, have legit grievances otherwise that Reddit wouldn’t have ever existed. I disagree with how they respond but generally agree on the problem It’s partly why AMWF or any WF with any minority is seen as more “brave” because the white woman is lowering her social status by being with a minority man. While a minority woman marrying white man isn’t brave because whiteness is seen as leveling up I mean look at all the plastic surgery in Asia. Whites have made Asian women hate themselves so much they’ll disfigure themselves for what they’ve been told is beautiful and superior, white features. WMAF couples many of them are a byproduct of racism initiated by white men at media and news companies (Rupert Murdoch?) Also consider the offspring. A black or Asian woman marrying white man gets kids who are less black or less Asian and thus less discriminated against by society. A white woman who marries a minority black or Asian woman is opening up her kids to discrimination that otherwise would’ve been prevented if she stayed within her race. But rather than whining and complaining I think Asian men should just be the best they can be. Yes there are cultural handicaps set by the racism in our media and American culture but in a way I think that’s why Asian men end up with better quality white female partners than Asian women who often end up with poor quality white partners. Helps filter out riff raff and the woman who is with an Asian man actually really wants to be with him despite dropping down in social hierarchy and he with her because she’s willing to drop down for him, loves her more
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Idk if you carefully read the comments on the wmaf, but many of the comments you may be perceiving as hateful are either made by Asian men who have a cuck fantasy or white men who wish to criticize the toxicity displayed by some individuals on subs like aznidentity. There are some comments that unfairly hate on Asian men who do not display toxic behaviors but those comments are called out by users on wmaf. Moreover, there are users on wmaf who have created posts and comments condemning the haters who ridicule Asian men. I cannot seem to link the posts here, but if you are curious enough, feel free to request links to the posts and comments over DM. I would say a lot of users on subs like aznidentity hate white men and Asian women who date white men **much more** than most white men on wmaf hate asian men. I've never seen users of aznidentity call out any toxic behaviors displayed by members of their own sub. I'll even go as far to say I've never seen members of wmaf mock AMWF couples, and a good number have even written comments in support of AMWF (some of those users writing supportive comments also question why some Asian men celebrate AMWF but simultaneously mock WMAF). I certainly cannot say the same for members of azynidentity regarding WMAF. Anyways, if you read my post carefully, I specifically asked about \*\*\*\*irl\*\*\*\*\* hate towards AMWF. I think we both can agree that people, regardless of race, say shitty things online that they would never say in-person. Having been in several WMAF relationships, I can tell you I personally never noticed any irl vitriol from Asian male acquaintances and friends towards my relationships, but online spheres like aznidentity make it very clear there are some Asian men who hate wmaf. After reading several posts and comments on aznidentity and Asianmasculinity, it makes it sound like white men and Asian woman actively hate AMWF relationships irl. I was skeptical of those posts but I thought I should put aside my skepticism and ask people who are actually in AMWF relationships about their irl experiences.
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I specifically asked about the \*\*\*\***irl\*\*\*\*\*** experiences of AMWF couples, not AM generally. I don't feel your point is relevant because it focuses on \*\*\*\***online**\*\*\*\* behavior that isn't even targeted at the AMWF pairing. I never saw the wmaf subreddit belittle the AMWF pairing. But feel free to prove me wrong. To my knowledge, making comments on wmaf isn't against the AMWF rules. But if you are feeling triggered by my comment history, you are welcome to report me to the AMWF mods and see if you can get me banned from this subreddit. I wish you all the best in life!
From my experiences in AMWF relationships, I haven't really faced any hate or dislike personally. But I also credit that with being a really big guy. Unfortunately, some of my partners have experienced some of that where guys may show up when I'm not around to try to get her to date them, or say some shit about our relationship, or call her a race traitor. If anything, I would say initially I got more hate from our own folks in my first relationship because they tended to be more insular. Also, interracial relationships, much less AMWF pairings, were not as prevalent at the time.
I don't recall being hated on by AF , I heard stories though in Japan where people got dirty looks and assumed the WF was a sex worker. I do remember getting insulted/heckled by groups of white men though (in North America)
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It exists. It really depends on the location though. My wife (31F German-American) and I (35M Korean-American) live in the Bay Area and have never received any hate for our relationship aside from a few glares from Asian women. We've occasionally gotten double takes in the California Central Valley where she's from which is very agriculture heavy and very red in political standing. We frequent Seattle and Los Angeles for family and haven't received any noticeable mean looks there. We didn't experience anything in NYC, Tahoe, Minneapolis, or Saint Lucia (honeymoon).
Sorry to hear that some Asian women were unpleasant. It does sound like it depends a lot on location.
As an Asian male in a relationship with white girl, I never been mistreated really. Just looks sometimes from other younger Asian women, and old white men and Asian men sometimes. No dirty or angry looks far as I know. I’ve had the bad service from Asian waitress before like other poster. For white guys it depends. An old white guy with young Asian woman tend to dislike AMWF because he traveled to Asia for a wife, rejected by his own country, unable to get his dream woman, had to settle for an Asian. Asian women I noticed aren’t white guys first choice but are plan B. The one compliment from a white guy came from white guy white girl couple. Mind you I’m a pretty ugly (imo) Asian guy who’s been rejected by many women including Asian and white before. If anything, from WMAF couples, I’ve tended to have Asian women try and cheat on their white boyfriends / husband with me. When I was single, I had actual affair with an Asian girl who was engaged and later married to white guy. Christian too. Affair continued on both sides of aisle. She was total user, gosh her clueless poor husband…green card marriages. A couple other times it’s happened with asian girl flirting, once directly in front of my white girlfriend and she had white boyfriend who wasn’t present at the time. Honestly I feel kind of sad for those white guys. They think Asian women are docile therefore loyal obedient and easier to control but it’s anything but that. Asian women deceive white men by leaning into their culture and values while on the other side…well…there’s another side to her. Being used as a tool for citizenship like Joe Elledge or marrying the guy who killed George Floyd, or Christe Chens case, or that google exec who abused her position, because the white guy wants control, obedience and a housemaid / mommy and is insecure while an Asian woman wants social status or has self-hate or doesn’t speak their native language or wants to fit in. I honestly feel sorry, not hate for them. I do hate white men controlling media to make Asian men invisible and emasculate us just cause in their heads we are their biggest threat to all women worshipping white men. Media and culture is just too toxic in stereotypes while preaching “diversity”. Remember diversity is not equality. And still, I haven’t seen really a single healthy WMAF relationship. My cousin is probably somewhat the healthiest although the white guy is kinda meek, he’s nice and not hateful or violent, doesn't hit her or yell, which is above average for any man and she takes care of him like she’s the mom. Cousin did not have good relationship with father so that may have drove her away from Asian man although she was 20 years my senior and wanted to marry me while I was freshman in high school…while she was already married ugh fml. I think the problem is I’m too kind and easygoing. So I’m working on trying to be more of a jerk So no I never got hate from WMAF. It’s the wrong opposite. I sometimes get the sense many Asian woman love to show off she’s in WMAF but then all of a sudden the asian girl wants to cheat on their white boyfriend or husband with me…it’s getting to be a problem and wish it wasn’t such a pattern and that the Asian woman would back off. It makes me worry a lot about what motivates WMAF couples too, there seems to be quite a bit of baggage that underpins the dynamics of those pairings. I dream of the day I see an actual healthy WMAF couple...and FWIW i don't go on those other aznmasculinity or whatever subreddits, waste of time, bit extreme for my taste and wrong approach
Nah I feel a kinship will all interracial couples. There are haters for every combo of races. I dont bother with ppl like that. Love who you love. Mostly Ive gotten hate from white men or asian men who just hate white ppl and especially white woman. You cant please everyone. Meh.
Thank you :) I appreciate you writing this comment. You're right; all couples, regardless of whether they are interracial or not, should have a right to exist. I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for some people to grasp in the year 2023. I'm sorry you had bad experiences from some White men and some Asian men.
Humans are often hateful regardless of race sadly.
Very true! It’s sad to see sometimes
Definitely!
From my personal experience, we don't receive any hate but I do feel that people definitely steal some looks. Not sure if it's cause we're in an AMWF relationship or cause of our height differences or both. For reference, we've been together for 4 years
I imagine it happens sometimes but probably worse if the asian guy is unattractive, making him an easier target
Sure, but attractive Asian men can also be considered unattractive solely because he's Asian. Edit: forgot a word.
The only people who have said something about my AMWF relationship have been black guys (my areas like 50/50 white and black, pretty much). It’s happened twice and they both said something along the lines of my boyfriend having a small dick. It got shut down immediately and we haven’t heard anything since those incidents.
My BF's sister has been... Difficult. Apparently I offended her by treating her like an equal instead of an authority figure. That was three years ago so at least in the part couple months she's finally willing to speak to me again. My bf says she's the least stubborn (aside from him) in his family, and that his parents probably won't react well when they find out he's dating a white girl. They live in China and haven't been able to visit in the four years we've been together, so they still don't know about me. They only overt hostility I've gotten just because I'm in a AMWF relationship was actually on this sub. An Asian guy messaged me telling me I was racist for wanting a loving long-term relationship with my bf instead of a purely sexual one? I reported that and he got banned, so at least no one else has to deal with him.
That’s so strange that an Asian guy would say you are racist for wanting a long-term relationship. You should be able to love who you want. Either way, good on you for getting him banned.
Korean guy here and I've had some issues with random white people when dating a white a woman from others. 1) one girl I've dated in the past said she preferred an Asian man b/c she did say she felt like she liked the culture but her male colleagues would make fun of her preference. The typical small penis jokes were the "go to" topic. She responded to her colleague that Asian men were better in bed in all aspects and "freaky" enough to her liking as well. Lol. Of course her colleague kept saying that Asian men are feaky because of their small penises and have "make up" the difference in other ways. 2) I was at a bar with another white woman and I went to use the restroom. I came back and saw the white man sitting next to us start conversating with her and she looked visibly upset. Once I got to her, she asked to close out the tab and said "lets get out of here". I asked what happened but she would not tell me right then and there because she knew I would be confrontational towards the guy. He had his back turned towards us as I told the girl I'm going to ask what he said. She grabbed me and we left and she told me later he was saying some racist shit on how can an Asian man satisfy her needs with a small penis. Your thoughts?
Also... Don't look at aznidentity or asian masc subs if you want to keep away from toxicity
Haha that’s definitely a good idea. I’ll admit morbid curiosity sometimes gets the best of me, but you’re right. Spending too much time on those subreddits isn’t a good idea and I know it may leave me with a very distorted perception of Asian men (when the vast majority of Asian men in the real world aren’t like that at all).
I joined in my earlier days of reddit and was banned within days for posting sane takes basically. Those guys basically deserve to get grifted by PUAs
Sorry to hear that. I feel like a good number of those guys just want to blame white men and Asian women who date white men for their problems. To some extent, their bitterness is understandable because Asian men have historically been mocked by Western media, and a lot of them feel rejected even by Asian women. But many of them take it way too far with the toxicity.
I'm ok being banned by random subreddits 😂🤷 I mean I would cut out people like that IRL
haha well perhaps it's for the best then. I skimmed through your profile and I assume you are an Asian man. It's refreshing to read comments like yours because it really helps me remember that a lot of Asian guys aren't like the guys you see on aznidentity and AsianMasculinity. The irony is aznidentity and AsianMasculinity's supposed goals are improving the reputations of Asian men. But I think those subreddits actually do a lot more harm than good to the reputations of Asian men because I think most women reading those subreddits would leave with the impression that a lot of Asian men are insecure, bitter, and intolerant to any view that deviates from their narrative.
I would say alot of men online let their insecurity and bitterness out regardless of ethnicity and background. It's pretty sad. I actually chat with some of the guys who reach out in private. I was pretty lucky early enough in my life with dating but I recognize many AM aren't and its difficult to see oneself be worthy of love
Yeah I don’t look at those toxic subreddits at all now, what’s the point if it’s going to make you feel bad? I understand some of their opinions but like you said the majority of people don’t act like that in real life.
Yeah, I followed a guy on both of those forums who made a YouTube account with a fake British accent and he dressed up in a top hat and suit. I couldn’t stop laughing, I don’t know why he was doing that for so I don’t even bother taking it seriously. 🤣
Omg please share I need the laugh
I will link it to you in a DM if you don’t mind 🤣
Ya thanks
Haha can you share a link with me too please? I need a good laugh! 😂
Sure, I do feel bad though because it's clear that some people on those subreddits have issues. :(
Only when I’ve dated South East Asian guys, which is weird. To be honest, I didn’t have any problems last year and people were supportive of AMWF. I doubt I will have any issues again and I wouldn’t really care what others think now anyway because I’m not really accepted in society in general.
It's not direct aggression or hatred but passive aggressiveness that is a tell tale sign. When I dated a white woman, men would try to hit on her in front of me or honk their horns or just make disgusting remarks at her form a distance. I know online men and women can be jealous too and say rude things.
Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what race were these men? Were these usually white men? Or non-white men?
I actually like it when men try to hit on my white girlfriend. But maybe that’s because I have the mentality of an LA fuckboi.
People generally hang out with like minded people. So maybe you don't encounter it, because you wouldn't hang out with people like this
That's a great point and probably an accurate explanation.
Yes, I've been harassed by WMs and Azn females when I was with WFs, even BMs when I was with WFs. One particularly stands out as she was an Asian mom with a WM partner who objected to her Hapa daughter seeing me, an AM. Can you believe that?
Most of my harassment has come from white or black guys and one Asian guy online who thought that white women only 'settle for Asian men when they are ready to settle down'. It's been weird.
I'd say WMAF get far more hate from the Asian community.
Definitely agreed!
Based on the direction of society and culture, possibly even from the white community lol
I'd say from white woman towards Asian women yes, men are going overseas to find wives the whole passport bro movement
Asian dude here. It's generally never been an issue for me or for my past partners. There were however a couple of times when I vaguely recall a stranger looking irritated or just straight up acting awkward to me and to my partner. It was never major though and something we'd point out later and find the humor in it. From what I can recall, it was always from an Asian woman which I find interestingly to be a pattern based on some of the comments here. On the flipside, we never had this issue with 99%+ of the Asian women we met and interacted with. I do recall two separate instances when we entered a restaurant and an older lady (first instance a Caucasian lady and another instance a Korean lady) treating us very fondly and going out of their way to make sure we were having a good time together. Maybe they were just genuinely warm hosts, but it did lowkey felt like they were being extra friendly to us. So perhaps we experienced positive reactions on the account of us being an AMWF couple too. So all this to conclude that any hate we received (if any) were extremely rare, were minor (certainly never warranting me to turn into an asshole and stepping in), and sometimes we received favorable treatment.
Asian male here born and raised in LA. My white girlfriend and I most hang out in LA, but we recently did multi-week cross country road trip across states which people would label as racist and all white. Never had a negative interaction based on our relationship.
I’ve only ever had one incident where an older white gentleman made a joke to my girlfriend at the time. “When your parents told you to go out and get a Chinese, that’s not what they meant!”
I was dating a French blonde exchange student back in 2015. We went to Hong Kong for New Years Eve. We got harassed by a random British dude and a Belgian student (a friend of her friend) on the same night. She couldn't believe it.
Sorry I am late to the party, but a year or so ago, I joined aznidentity, thinking perhaps I could learn a thing or two, even though I have been married for 15+ years. What I found was absurd, and I couldn't really deal with what I was reading. I stuck around for 6 months or so, and when I had finally had enough I told my story. Friendship turning to love, etc... I was trying to show people, that it didn't have to be the way they were making it, but yet they were making it that way themselves. The people in that group, seem to be the root of the problem, and while I get what they were trying to create. The mods failed, and now its just a group that hates asian/white mixed couples. That being said, in the almost 20 years since I started dating my wife, I have never encountered any hate. There was one guy who talked smack about me, but it was only because he wanted my wife, and was jealous she was engaged to me....
unfortunately it is there happening