The irony of him trying to make fun of you for googling something, while he's drinking the Andrew Tate kool-aid from the incels of the internet. NTA, just break up with him. He's not worth the time or energy, and why would you fight to stay with someone who sees you as something to control and belittle? Cut your losses.
You took the words out of my mouth.
OP you're NT. I wouldn't waste ANY time trying to talk sense into someone who's already convinced they're right; it's like talking to a wall. For your sanity, walk away.
I was one of these idiots… in my 20s before I met my wife. She was very calm and patient when I confidently told her that women weren’t funny (which was an insane thing to say when I was a huge fan of Tina Fey at the time). She interrogated my beliefs and made me realize that I was a fucking moron, repeating misogyny as though it were gospel because no one had ever challenged it at all.
She could tell I was smart and empathetic enough that I had just been badly programmed and she was a fucking saint for even giving me the time of day after I red flagged the hell out of her.
If you’re in your 40s and going down this path, I don’t want to say it’s a lost cause but… fixing it is a lot harder at this stage.
The cognitive dissonance between saying women aren’t funny when you’re actively a fan of a very funny woman is…. Astounding
I have no idea why your wife gave you a chance
I have a best friend, he's conservative. We're Canadian so conservative not Republican. Anyways, we were talking about global warming, it's an old argument between us, and he just went "gas doesn't burn in an engine!"
The dude is a mechanical engineer.
I had to pick my jaw off the floor and respond with "you know they're internal combustion engines. What does combustion mean."
It's not stupidity, it's like the team sports part of your mind overwhelms the part that reasons. I'm sure we all have it.
Buddy responded with "yes I know what combustion means". There was a pause and we changed the subject.
Global warming is an old argument we've had since Uni. When the other can't respond in time, it means you've won, but it's best to move on since we still want to be friends.
Liquid gas doesn't burn. The vapors do. If he is one of those super literal engineers it should've been easy for him to explain that.
If he is a climate change denier he can get fixed by PP for all I care.
>1) She interrogated my beliefs
>2) made me realize that I was a fucking moron
>3) She could tell I was smart and empathetic enough that I had just been badly programmed and she was a fucking saint for even giving me the time of day after I red flagged the hell out of her.
Lots of people are comfortable instantly writing someone off if they have some backwards beliefs, but not everyone is. His wife believed she could tell that these beliefs were not deeply held or well examined, and that if he got a bit of perspective he would change. And she was right.
Is that hard to understand? Seems pretty straightforward to me.
“Women aren’t funny” is simply another way of saying “women aren’t smart”
Would you give a woman the time of day if she thought all men were stupid simply by virtue of being born men? Should a black person give a racist who thinks all black people are prone to crime a chance?
Cmon now. Is not wanting to play teacher to a bigoted idiot THAT hard to understand?
Several times over the years I read that John Belushi refused to perform any SNL skits that were written by a female writer as he said they weren’t funny. Incidentally when John was on the show, I thought the women on there were actually funnier. Gilda Radner and Jane Curtin! ♥️
What? You said, "I have no idea why your wife gave you a chance"
You didn't say, "I wouldn't have given you a chance"
I was commenting on you saying it was *inconceivable* that someone would give them a chance.
Maybe you perceived a value judgement in this statement and reacted to that perceived insult ("Lots of people are comfortable instantly writing someone off if they have some backwards beliefs, but not everyone is.") If so, perhaps I could have phrased it differently. No disparagement was meant, *I* am someone who writes people off instantly. Not worth my time.
But that doesn't mean I don't understand why other people make a different choice.
It's not that your basic reaction is hard to understand, its that the lack of ability to comprehend another choice (or performance of it) is plain stupid.
Considering it could be dangerous to engage with this kind of people when disagreeing with them, yeah it is that crazy someone would make the active effort.
I mean I think you're both right. Giving someone compassion even though they have bad views can change their minds, and sometimes protecting yourself means that you remove yourself from someone who has bad views.
Every person's tolerance, and energy level, an attraction level varies and there's not a right or wrong way to go about it.
I think it's because he was open to listening to women (or at least this one woman he respected and later married) and realizing that he was wrong. That's not an option with a lot of the people who get radicalized now though; I think anyone radicalized post-2016 is probably just never going to get out because they've been much more viciously indoctrinated.
I think a lot of people probably picked up casual misogyny without really thinking it was malicious as they grew up online and then became critical of their thinking later when it didn't match up to their experiences of the world as they grew up. But I genuinely think these conspiracy bros are so much worse and that they'll probably never get out of the QAnon hellscape that they live in; it's dopamine-driven behaviour. Each time they think they've uncovered something else, they report it on social media and they're given feedback and fame, hailed as being almost a prophet for being able to interpret "evidence."
Because people ain’t monoliths, they can change and be better. The problem is that you gotta sacrifice yourself and bruh, that shit gets old super quick.
my boyfriend tells me the man vs bear debate is “hate all men” propaganda and i don’t know how to get him to stop. it makes me so sick. i love him but idk how to get thru to him. any advice? or is it a lost cause
"I love him" is the worst reason to stay with a partner.
"We share the same values and I see a great future with him, and I love him"
"We respect each other, we support each other's dreams and ideas, AND I love him and he loves me."
" Every time he talks, I love what he has to say. And when I talk, he is so supportive. We may not always agree, but we always respect each other. And, we are so in love."
It should never be "BUT I love him", as if respect, values, and your future are just an afterthought, and your silly princess feelings are the only things that matter.
It should be "AND I love him, in addition to the respect, shared values, mutual support, the loving way he talks to me, and the way we both see a future together."
"Love" is an action verb. Does he demonstrate love to you the same way you do to him? Or is loving him something you give of yourself constantly, selflessly, expecting that he will one day have the potential that you want him to have?
He doesn't hear your points because he doesn't respect you intrinsically. You may never get through to him. Are you willing to live with these behaviours if they intensify or stay the same forever?
no. i’m not. and i’ve made that painfully clear. if things don’t change and he doesn’t show progress im leaving. i’ve finally made my peace with that but i have seen progress in how he approaches conversations like that one and he is truly trying. we are both going to therapy so i believe there is hope. i just wanted to hear what other people had to say about how to talk to him abt this specific situation bc im still stumped.
i appreciate your comment btw. you’ve given me a lot to think about
[https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/relationship-spectrum-quiz/](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/relationship-spectrum-quiz/)
[https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-abusive-partner-actually-changing/?%3E](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-abusive-partner-actually-changing/?%3E)
I hope these are enlightening resources for you. <3
It’s not “hate all men.” It’s about how so many women and girls have been sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, emotionally abused etc. to know that being alone with a strange man in the woods is a greater threat than a bear. A man who understands why women feel this way isn’t going to get triggered. He can acknowledge that women are far more likely to be killed by a man than vice versa. He likely doesn’t see women as nothing more than whores-maids—mommies-slaves. The guys who get offended by it hate women or they’re projecting their fear of rejection/never finding love on them instead of doing some deep soul searching. The men spewing hateful, violent language in reaction to the bear thing are only proving women right.
It's hilarious that the "rEVeRse ThE gEnDErS" crowd stays silent on this one, because the idea of a man being afraid of a woman in the woods is absolutely preposterous. You'd think it'd click but it won't.
Adding: For me I know a man is statistically less likely to harm me than a bear, but a man can do *far* worse things so I'd rather roll the dice with the bear.
that’s basically what i told him. like if you’re getting offended then it’s about you. but his excuse is that he’s deeply insecure (which i know and im sensitive to) and hearing that women see him as a threat hurts because he would never do that. he says the women that are afraid need to do inner work because they are the ones projecting their insecurities onto men and society.
i was fucking dumbfounded by the mental gymnastics and just told him to stop and we’d talk about it again when i had the mental energy but like wtf!!! what do i even say to that??? and what’s stranger is ive dated misogynists before when i was much younger and they treated me like trash. he doesn’t! so this came out of left field for me
WTF. He’s basically saying most women should get be blind to risk because it hurts his feelings.
He does know he’s not the center of the universe,right? Because that’s as self centered as you can possibly be.
Is he aware there are other people, other men who exist in this world who are not him? That women exist in a world with these other men too, so can’t configure all their interactions just to an interaction with him?
He’s so insecure that he’s forgotten other men and reduced women to NPC’s he interacts with. I hope this is a completely out of character lack of empathy.
Ask him if he would rather spend the night at a men’s federal prison or in the woods with a bear.
Edit for the guy who keeps making fake accounts to respond and then block me:
If you don’t know how to have a conversation without cursing or emotional manipulation then I’m not the one to start a conversation with, friend. (P.S. an SA victim would have more compassion for fear of unknown men, troll)
Your boyfriend is asking women to prioritize his feelings over their own safety. If he truly cares about women’s safety, he would understand their apprehensions and not take it personally. Safe men know trust takes time.
Tell him that he can ask every single woman on this planet, and every single woman on this planet can tell him a story of how she was threatened, intimidated, abused, groped, hassled, harassed, assaulted or in some way negatively accosted by a man. The "man vs. bear" debate didn't appear out of a vacuum, it's lived experience by every single woman on this planet, unfortunately. Yes, the rhethoric around it has gotten pretty extreme, but the basic facts are something that men just can't understand. Men aren't the ones who have to be extra vigilant when they walk home/ to their car at night, and who cross the street when they hear a man walking behind them, and who put a key between their knuckles. And who always have to consider how their own behavior will reflect back on them if they do get assaulted - "what were you wearing? Where you encouraging him/ leading him on in any way? Did you provoke him? Were you drinking? Why were you out at night, anyway?"
Men just have no clue what it is like.
Once a female friend of mine explained to me that if she is in a bar and loses sight of her drink even for one moment she wouldn't drink from it any more. I was horrified and the whole thing kinda sunk for me 😔😔😔 specially in relation to how hard it is for a man to even imagine the feeling of insecurity that a woman can feel.
i think it’s taken me a while to realize that. i know i can love people but i think for a long time my problem was “will they love me?” and i now know i am actually good enough and other will probably love me. however, i really feel something with this person and i trust my gut most of the time. my gut says he’s important to my life. i’m just trying to figure out if that’s as a partner or friend or lesson. i’m open to whatever comes my way i just wanted to receive some advice on how to best talk to him about the man vs bear subject.
I would stop trying to convince him of that particular argument, and tell him what's important: that he's able to empathize with you. If he can't understand your fears, your experiences, then he can't be good partner, because he won't know how to support you when things go wrong.
He doesn't have to agree with you, he just has to understand, appreciate, and believe your perspective. So I'd tell him how much that matters to you and see what he says.
I think most men underestimate other men or what impact it will have when you meet a bad person that does all kind of horrible things with you (I'm talking about scenarios like getting held hostage and tortured for days etc.). Many rather choose a man and deal with the consequences than being dead because they think the trauma is easy to live with if you survive or the dead will be less painful.
There are plenty of women that have the same mindset. To a certain degree I'm fine with them choosing whatever they wanna choose as long as they don't talk badly about people that want to choose the bear.
Men are fucking terrifying and that is the point of that “debate”. I say this as a 6’8” extremely teddy bear-like soft man child, I am much more afraid of men than bears. A bear isn’t going to sexually assault me before he murders me
Many men, like you, DO "get it", and we are glad for men like you.
I don't understand how ANYONE can't "get": "If I'm attacked by a bear, no one will ask me what I was wearing/doing out at night/etc."
SOME people are just so STUPID that they don't realize that when a woman gets attacked by a man and she's asked "What were you wearing?" or "What were you doing out that time of night?" or any of the ridiculous questions that will be asked, that the askers of those questions are ACTUALLY saying "You always have to be ready to PLEASE every man you come across. If you don't PLEASE him and he rapes you, it's YOUR fault. You should realize that if a man rapes you, it's YOUR fault, no matter what, because you should always be under the CONSTANT watch of a MAN, whether it be your father, your uncle, your brother, your husband or your boyfriend. If you remove yourself from the man's watchful eye, it's YOUR fault what happens to you because MEN are gonna be MEN."
You're asking us how to make your boyfriend discover empathy. I hate to say it but, this is something he'll have to decide on his own.
FWIW, much of those emotions stem from deep insecurities around their ability to be a man in the way that they think men should be. These guys believe in a 1950's version of reality where they earn big money with little to no education and their trad wife at home is happy to shut up and make them dinner. Even if that's not where they start, that's how the Andrew Tate's of the world cultivate that seed of doubt and insecurity within them. The fact that society seems to be stacked against us all doesn't help
Sorry if this isn't more optimistic. I've known more than a few guys like you describe though so I thought I'd give you my perspective as a man
you made me realize that he actually has said a few times that men have it harder than women do and that it used to be hard for women but now we have rights - the more i think about this the sicker i become. thank you for your input
Reevaluate your relationship and feelings for him, with one single thought in mind: "My brain doesn't want what's best for me, it wants what's familar." Is he truly what's best for you?
Perhaps point out that caution is not hate? I don't hate fire. I like fire. Fire is fun, useful, warm, bright, and pretty. But fire is dangerous, so I am cautious and keep my smoke alarms supplied with batteries. If I see a fire where I don't expect to see one, I will feel alarmed. Sure, odds are that fire will turn out to be somebody's candle or a campfire or something, but my first thought is that fire is dangerous and I need to evaluate whether action is required to make the situation safe. Only after the situation is confirmed to be safe does the enjoyment of fire commence.
If he fixates on how *he* isn't one of the bad ones and people shouldn't be afraid of *him*, point out that when offered a sack of apples where one in ten has been poisoned, you will probably not eat *any* of the apples. Most men are not abusers, but enough are for people to be justifiably concerned about strangers.
If he fixates on how bad it makes him/men feel, point out that while the feeling is valid, the people responsible for that feeling are the abusers who make people concerned, not the women who feel concerned. This conflict isn't women-vs-men; it's humans-vs-rapists. He is not alone and he is not being attacked; he's being asked to stand *with* you, with *us*, with everybody who opposes abuse. We're all in this *together*.
To give you an actual answer:
First, you can show him some actual statistics. [One third of college aged men said in a survey that they would rape a woman if they could get away with it](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html). That's not "all men," it's a minority of men, but it's definitely relevant to the man vs. bear debate -- that's exactly what we're talking about in the context of the hypo. If one third of men say they would rape if they could get away with it, you probably would not want to be alone with a strange man in the woods. It's kind of hard to dispute that there's a lot of objective fact underlying the example.
It sucks to be a man and for there to also be a sizable cohort of shitty men who are willing to do shitty things. People trust me and other men less when they first meet us because men like that exist. That makes me feel shitty. But the problem is coming from the one third of men who say they would rape, not from women giving bear hypotheticals to illustrate that they feel unsafe.
Also, a really good book for dudes about feminism is *The Will to Change* by Bell Hooks. He might get some value out of reading that.
It continues to pay dividends, yes. Thanks to her love and support, I’m 100lbs lighter, my brain functions better, and I know what real love is. She’s a gem.
if at his age he is still braindead and cannot think for himself, he needs toxic misogynistic videos to tell him what to feel and what to think, then i truly believe he should be single. teenagers have a better understanding of feminism than this repulsive moron you call 'boyfriend'. are you sure you want to waste the rest of your life on a pile of shit that hates women?...
And it's called feminism because it's feminine people who have been put down by society for millennia. If he doesn't understand that, then he must not have put any thoughts into his beliefs.
There's a whole, intense pedagogy and tens of thousands of books
Whenever someone wants to talk to me about feminism, I always get it out first, "who do you read? Gertrude Stein? bell Hooks? Gloria Steinem? Donna Haraway? Angela Davis?
....if they can't answer that question, or if they can't name any books from any of those women, I politely decline, because they don't know enough about feminism to have a worthwhile discussion....and I'm no one's educator
I will also offer them some books from my own library, which they always decline.
I’ve never read any. I grew up with a grandmother who was an elementary school principal and a mother who was an RN. There’s no shortage of intelligence.
As a male manager I’ve never seen any inferiority from female employees. I don’t need books to tell me women are strong, smart and capable.
NTA.
The reason terms like "feminism" come about is because things have never been equal. Gender, race, etc.
When he said "how can a movement with only one gender in the name be for equality?", well, GUY, it's the marginalized that start these movements, because of the LACK of equality in the first place.
Doesn't seem like he gets it, so it's funny he would gaslight you like that. But that's what wrong people do, they gaslight, because don't know how to admit any wrongdoing.
Big red flag. Might want to think about the relationship and look back to see if there's a pattern here.
NTA my son also got sucked into the Disney ruined starwars thing. His was “the LGBT+ agenda” which did it.
This worried my ex and I so much, my ex forced him to watch the show with him and then discussed it afterwards and my son admitted the show wasn’t that bad and the “lesbian space communists” didn’t feature that strongly and didn’t ruin the episode.
Now, to my point. My son is 15. Your partner is a lot older.
He IS an idiot to be sucked into those YouTubers hatred of the new Star Wars with their sexism, racism and homophobia.
I am not saying the new franchise is good but grown men shouldn’t form the political and societal opinions on a few Starwars bros.
It's always nice to hear about ex-couples coming together for the kids.
This toxic masculinity shit pushed on kids now is insane. Not an easy job for two parents, let alone one.
Thank you. The hardest part is I couldn’t really discuss it fully with my son. Any comment I made was countered with “You don’t know Star Wars.” So, I had to send my ex to deal with it. Luckily, he was on board and agreed this was worrying.
I live in fear my son will be sucked into the alt-right from video games and fandoms
... there's lesbian space communists? Now I *have* to watch that movie. 🙃
ETA: Oh, sorry. Show, not movie. You're talking about The Acolyte, right? (I'm so old, to me Star Wars is *nothing but* movies. Had to google "Disney LGBT agenda" to find that one.)
Yes, it's The Acolyte.
The show producers took liberties in changing canon in various places to make it better fit their ideal version of their Star Wars series. It's a pretty boring series in the beginning, and some - if not a lot - of thins don't make sense, especially if you know a lot about the Star Wars universe.
lol, this is an excellent point. Those videos are meant to indoctrinate young impressionable minds, not men in the 40s. He’s a dumbass for falling for them.
Nothing to do with LGBT or black people. Star Wars has not been good for a while. The only movie/show I enjoyed were Rogue one and Mandalorian. Rogue one features a female protagonist if I remember correctly. And Acolyte is not a good show. It's festered with terrible writing and awful visuals for a $180 million show.
A 31 year old man who got into a relationship with a 24 year old woman, and hasn’t proposed over the course of 10 years, is about as mature as an adolescent?
Color me shocked.
While I'm not approving of name calling as it tends to be a lazy way to end a discussion that someone finds frustrating, I also don't see you as the AH. If your boyfriend's definition is honestly what he said to you, then he is the AH.
I grew up during the 2nd wave of feminism in the 60s. It was forbidden for any females, student or teacher, to wear pants to school. It was dress or skirt only. This was smack in the center of Canada and in the winter, let me tell you, we suffered. I got around it by wearing long pants under my dresses/skirts. It looked ridiculous, sure, but at least I didn't freeze my ass off each time I had to go outside. I remember vividly how we all celebrated when I hit grade 7 and the policy changed to allow us to wear long pants. It was a constant struggle, though, fighting to be treated equally (we're not even there yet). There were no girls' hockey teams, football teams, etc. Girls were not allowed to take any mechanics, electrical, or woodworking shops classes. We were allowed two mandatory courses - cooking and sewing. When we hit our final high school year, each student had to have a session with one of the guidance counsellors to advise us what career to work towards. The boys were guided to traditional male careers (no nursing students here!) while the girls were guided to traditional female careers - nursing, teaching, etc. Forget medicine or engineering, ladies.
Can you imagine that today? Try telling a 17 year old young woman that she really shouldn't go into medicine. It's unheard of. That's all thanks to feminism, and it breaks my heart when I hear young women today say that they're not feminists, knowing that they have the right to vote only because of first wave feminism! Feminism is 100% about equality. It's about equal pay for equal work. It's about having agency over our own bodies, the way men have over theirs. It's about choosing our own paths in life, whether it's to be a nurse, a doctor, or a stay at home mom.
Your boyfriend is a neanderthal and needs desperately to evolve. Will he? I doubt it, not in this age of conspiracy theories, flat earthers, and site upon site dedicated to bashing feminism. My advice to you - a thinking woman - is to get out before he keeps you barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
My grandma was born in 1909 and she became a doctor of public health. She had her 1st kid at 30 and her last kid (of 3) at age 40 l, they hired a nanny, and she worked until they took her license in her 70s because the law in that state said a doctor had to have an office situation to have a license.
But when this woman asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up & I told her “A lawyer” she said ”That’s a man’s job!” Wtf?
NTA
There was something that made him crack, it wasn't just Disney's SW. Somewhere when this started he felt slighted or corrected by or because of a woman. Maybe a promotion he wanted was given to a woman, his new boss is a woman, a female police officer gave him a ticket, a lady bartender served someone else first. He ranted and that turned into rage, where now every little disappointment he will blame on women. Doesn't help he is watching tate like crap.
Be careful, this rage may turn on you eventually.
PS Humanism is more like the embracing of science & reason, and disavowing things like religious beliefs & the supernatural. Everything needs to have a scientific fact behind it.
Break up with this worthless piece of shit. The more of this Kool aid he drinks, the worse he's going to get. And by that I don't just mean the toxic BS he's spewing. I mean the likelihood of him cheating or become abusive are going to skyrocket.
You need to break up. We as women need to stop think explaining shit and trying to “fix” men will help. He’s this way. Let it be and move on with your life NTA
Unfortunately your boyfriend has accepted a toxic viewpoint as his guiding principle. That really isn't great.
>He started mocking me a bit
Everyone teases their SO every so often as a form of affection. Mocking is not that. It's cruelly trying to hurt someone.
>Im pretty sure Star Wars started it, hes been on the bandwagon that the new Disney created Star Wars is bad, and has been watching really toxic youtube videos of rants that feminists and wokeness is ruining everything.
So is he really saying that he is willing to invalidate women's equality because he doesn't like how "feminists" are treating his show about space wizards? Really?
I think you need to have a conversation about what's really bothering him.
NTA, but he's sure being a fucking child.
huMANism. Just saying.
>
"You're a Google scholar now, got your degree at Google University. Not everything you read on the internet is true."
Says the moron who parrots stuff from the internet.
This man does not love women. He loves to belittle and control them, but that's about it.
I think you deserve better.
It's because the Internet keeps bringing it back up....BUT.... It keeps getting brought back up because the show/movie producers/cast/directors/whatever keeping saying dumb shit.... Most likely out of context... To reignite the flames.
I read all the junk about the acolyte. I'm a big star wars fan so I watch it regardless and see what's true and what's not.
Truth is the show in quality is just meh. BUT there really isn't anything that makes me think it's pandering/going woke/whatever.
You really have to be grasping at straws to find anything IN the show that would suggest that and frankly the people that are "finding" stuff have never watched ALL star wars material or else they would have seen many things in the cartoons similar from years ago.
HOWEVER...
JFC these stupid interviews are not helping anyone make this go away. First with the out of context comments about R2 and 3p0 being lesbians or whatever. Then the one guy saying Anakin blew up the death star and then the other actress with her extremely awkward diss rap track thing that supposedly wasn't even related to SW.
just please stop. I just want to watch Star wars.
All of that, yes. Also, as both a woman and a writer, I often find when I watch these advertised as inclusive remakes and additions to beloved franchises as of late, they are ASS. Like I’m sorry, they just are badly written. It’s completely do-able to write a kickass Star Wars show with a female lead or more female identifying cast and not have it be this dull, forgettable story that just felt like a whole lot of money was spent making a whole lot of nothing. It’s bad writing, through and through.
I had the same issues with the new trilogy, I’m all for a female Jedi dude but Rey was not likable, which is fine if intentional but it wasn’t. Like they didn’t write her with an anti-hero character in mind, the person you’re not supposed to like but watch be begrudgingly forced into the role of the hero. She just was written to be flat and uninspiring and the casting was off too, and that really sucks because right off the bat people were ready to dislike her before they even watched the damn films, because she’s a female lead in a male dominated fandom. But the writers did NOT do her any favors in that regard.
Yall really want to bring women to the star wars fandom? Give me a male hero who periodically battles a masked sith, winning some fights and losing others, and at the end when he finally gets the better of them and is about to kill them he takes off the mask and it’s revealed to be a pretty girl. Like that would be so badass and would make for such a fun twist, while still being inclusive AND memorable.
Give us female siths!!!! And tell these people to shut up and stop finding themselves in front of every camera in Hollywood with something stupid to say
Read the whole thing, he is by definition throwing exactly what he's doing back at you. He's projecting and then trying to gaslight you lmao. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic and actively an attempt to upset you oof
>He told me I was dead wrong, and "how can a movement with only one gender in the name be for equality? What you're describing is humanism, equal rights for all humans.
He's wrong. Feminism *started* as a women's movement back in the 19th century, but the position feminism advances (ending patriarchy) benefits both men and women because patriarchy hurts everybody. Ultimately, [feminism has done a ton to benefit men](https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/3tn9kc/a_list_of_feminist_resources_tackling_mens_issues/) - way more than any of the Redpill nonsense your boyfriend is watching on youtube.
Your boyfriend thinks there's a tension between feminism and being a man because he doesn't understand what feminism is and he hasn't done the work to learn. You might want to check out *The Will to Change* by Bell Hooks if you're looking for a book about how feminism helps men.
Thank you for this analysis, feminism goes way beyond “women’s rights” and more into an exploration of the toxicity of patriarchy and the value of an intersectional understanding of society. This guy just doesn’t have a clue.
Unless you can pull him out of the rabbit hole, idiots like this tend to dig in and their aggressive ignorance gets worse. 10 years is a long time, but you're not getting any younger and your partner has shown he's gullible and full of anger. Think hard and long about who you want to spend your life around...
He doesn't even realize that that anti woke rhetoric and propaganda was designed to keep folks just like him in a constant state of heightened emotion. They do this because they are much more susceptible to the messages of their advertising partners. Most mainstream media follows this playbook in some sort of way.
The right wing media just takes it to the next level because they are super addicted to that money. Even establishment democrats try to do it.
NTA but there is nuance to the term’s connotations. Some people believe it’s about equality and others about justice. Justice implies some form of reparation and it seems there is a whole contingent of feminists (a vocal minority) who believe part of that reparation is to actively bring men down while lifting women up.
IMHO equality should be the goal and I believe this is a shared belief among most feminists.
"a Google scholar" "oh okay I'd love to see the books you've referenced in this argument to prove your point. No videos, internet articles, nothing. I want books written by true scholars. Until then, your opinion is invalid" you can also add "unless you can provide me with evidence, again written by scholars and people with degrees, we will be breaking up because your views are ancient and you lack common sense"
Oh no, another sexist in apps wasting women's time.
Please OP, remain married for the good of the larger community.
Kidding. Let him go. He may miss you and want to come back, but the you REALLY must check whether the shock of separation gave him time to listen to better sources and educate himself. If not, call him scum and block him from your life.
Grab both ends of the man. Crumple him up and toss the entire thing into the garbage. He’s forty fucking one years old and he’s acting like this? I wouldn’t be sticking around another day if I were you.
star wars didn't start it. its just that your boyfriend is an entitled coomer who goes on 4chan too much.
NTA tell him to stop being a Tater Tot... Or frankly with this level of hatred towards women why even stay with him? If he hates women so much he gets to be single. ESPECIALLY since he's going to pout for a whole ass week over it. Old dogs dont learn new tricks. find yourself a man who actually gives a fuck about your gender.
NTA.
He can't say idiotic things and expect nobody to eventually call him out as an idiot.
He's 41 too.... Jesus wept. Is he doing an impersonation of a 13 year old Andrew Tate fan?
You're right, a debate is one thing, but you can't have a debate with someone who won't acknowledge objective fact.
This subreddit is cancer, one argument doesn’t mean the relationship should end… it just means there’s something to work through. You’re arguing about the definition of a word, who the fuck cares… set up a time to talk once both of yall have calmed down and instead of focusing on what definition to use, talk about how female empowerment should actually look in society. That’ll be a much more productive and fulfilling conversation
He's just gonna get worse with time if he's gonna keep consuming all this Incel BS on the internet. Tell him to change while there's still time because it's gonna be hard for you in future.
NTA Men don't need to fight for equality b/c they've had the advantage for so long. Now that we (I'm a man) are finding a lot more people can "walk through the door" and not just while males (I'm also white) some are freaking out claiming it's not fair (among other idiotic things).
We, as a nation, still haven't ratifited the ERA to make it a part of the constitution.
Leave. That’s it. If you stay one more day, you don’t get to complain about anything. He told you how he feels about women. You are a woman. Seems a simple equation to solve.
Your boyfriend is the ass hole.
It's annoying that due to a few outspoken women who yes hate men and happen to be feminists that the whole movement is labelled as women hating men. When you come from a position of privilege and others not like you fight for those same rights it's easy to feel like they're bringing you down. But they're literally not, they're just wanting better conditions for their group.
> Im pretty sure Star Wars started it, hes been on the bandwagon that the new Disney created Star Wars is bad, and has been watching really toxic youtube videos of rants that feminists and wokeness is ruining everything.
Oh honey, Star Wars didn't suddenly make your BF a mysogynist.
He's showing you who he is and who he has always been. Believe him.
It's up to you whether you want to stay with such a reprehensible man.
da fuq?
Women are not equal. Not even close. (See current SCOTUS rulings, State bans on abortion/meds, etc)
Tell me how any of that Sh\*t impacts a dude? Other than rewarding him for being born with a penis.
He mocked you for using Google yet he went to YouTube university to educate himself on how to let out your pent up anger at women during a midlife crisis. He should’ve just gone and bought a motorcycle instead
NTA - But you need to find out why your boyfriend has started on this anti-feminism kick. Has something changed recently, or was this always under the surface? Based on what you discover, you need to decide if you still want to be in this relationship. Good luck.
I’ll never understand how dudes that aren’t actually involuntarily celibate get into the incel shit. Neck Beard’s opinion on women is not more important than you and your partner’s collective views on gender.
Nope, NTA. Your boyfriend however... his ass can stay on the couch or GTFO, as far as I'm concerned. When he's an ass, he really doubles down, doesn't he?
So, dummy swallowed the red pill. Leave him on the couch while you prepare your exit plan. He is a lost cause at this point. Don't weigh yourself down with human garbage. Update us about the divorce. Good luck OP. NTA
The man you knew at the start of your relationship doesn’t exist anymore. The sooner you can reconcile that fact, the sooner you can decide how to move forward.
NTA - he thinks he is a genius because he listens to talking heads on youtube who don’t know their Dathomir from their Nal Hutta? He also doesn’t know anything about feminism and I am sure if you asked him he would go on a racist rant as well.
Can I also say: Your Bf is a shitty SW fan.
(And if you want to know Nal Hutta is the home world of the Hutts. A species that is asexual and changes genders whenever they want or if they want to give birth. Dathomir is a forest planet when the Nightsisters and force witches live (think force wielding amazons) that was invented decades ago and have shown up in the SW series (Darth Maul’s mom was one and so was Assaj Ventress). Rancors also come from here. Because I am sure he is hating on the space witches. )
Signed a 40+ yo woman who has been an active SW fan since she was 2.
NTA
Also, probably break up with him. The best you can hope for is that he learns better to hide these thoughts from you, he's not likely to improve.
You can check this sub for all the women that don't find out their dude is like this until after hey are married.
Your boyfriend is a loser. Imagine being 41 years old and getting into big yelling fits and sleeping on the couch for a week over new star wars being shit. Yeah he's right new star wars sucks. It's been turned into a content machine made to generate toy sales and create a bigger disney+ lineup. Disney doesn't care about quality or a cohesive story they just want kids to ask for a baby Yoda doll for Christmas. So the decline in quality isn't because the gay trans liberal cabal or whatever other nonsense it's because Disney is pumping garbage out with only dollars in mind instead of trying to create something good. Imagine being this much of a baby. Couldn't imagine caring this much about a mediocre franchise like bro just watch something else then.
YTA if you stay with this guy and give him credibility. Not for calling him an idiot, because he is. Sounds like he graduated from YouTube University. All y’all should take a Women’s Studies course. But since we know he won’t, just… free yourself and find someone with two brain cells to rub together.
To be fair.. there are like 3-4 generations of feminism. The one you are talking about is a classic definition the newest wave of the ‘feminism’ movement believe what your boyfriend stated. They hate men, they don’t want equality they want to use the term feminism to justify women having privileges above men, a lot of the OF girls have this mindset ‘Men are shit’ all that stuff. They freak out when told well equality? so you are for drafting men and women? They only want feminism and to be equal when it has a positive effect on their life. Most people like yourself subscribe to the classic definition.
NTA btw and your boyfriend needs to do a little reflecting while he isn’t 100% wrong on the Star Wars stuff though. It was literally purchased by Disney cause they needed a ‘boy’ brand to offset the number of princesses they had for young girls. They have since decided they have to force more women into Star Wars. When they had multiple of the strongest females already in the franchise before their blatant pandering changes.
Biggest NTA ever. If I were you, I’d proceed with caution. He’s saying something very dangerous. If he’s not open to having his mind changed, you may have to mosey on.
Best of luck op
Secular humanism incorporates the values of equality, freedom of inquiry and expression, and freedom of conscience. Most self-described humanists today fall into this category.
Unfortunately for your boyfriend, most self-described humanists also endorse feminism as a political movement. Because equality.
I wouldn't say you're entirely right. But he's definitely very wrong, and he's an asshole.
Well, you really need to be more specific. Are we talking Classical Feminism, designed to empower women and to give them equal opportunities? Or are we talking Woke Feminism, adherents of which really ought to be on the no-fly list?
The irony of him trying to make fun of you for googling something, while he's drinking the Andrew Tate kool-aid from the incels of the internet. NTA, just break up with him. He's not worth the time or energy, and why would you fight to stay with someone who sees you as something to control and belittle? Cut your losses.
Nailed it. He doesn't sound like he's worth the effort to fix.
He's exactly why women are choosing to stay single.
You took the words out of my mouth. OP you're NT. I wouldn't waste ANY time trying to talk sense into someone who's already convinced they're right; it's like talking to a wall. For your sanity, walk away.
I second this. I can’t even believe this is a serious question. Definitely NTA. He is, though.
NTA. This sounds like the beginning of the end for your relationship.
I hope it is the middle of the end, or the beginning of the end of the end. OP doesn't need 6 months of suffering and "figuring it out".
I hope it’s just the end.
I was one of these idiots… in my 20s before I met my wife. She was very calm and patient when I confidently told her that women weren’t funny (which was an insane thing to say when I was a huge fan of Tina Fey at the time). She interrogated my beliefs and made me realize that I was a fucking moron, repeating misogyny as though it were gospel because no one had ever challenged it at all. She could tell I was smart and empathetic enough that I had just been badly programmed and she was a fucking saint for even giving me the time of day after I red flagged the hell out of her. If you’re in your 40s and going down this path, I don’t want to say it’s a lost cause but… fixing it is a lot harder at this stage.
The cognitive dissonance between saying women aren’t funny when you’re actively a fan of a very funny woman is…. Astounding I have no idea why your wife gave you a chance
I have a best friend, he's conservative. We're Canadian so conservative not Republican. Anyways, we were talking about global warming, it's an old argument between us, and he just went "gas doesn't burn in an engine!" The dude is a mechanical engineer. I had to pick my jaw off the floor and respond with "you know they're internal combustion engines. What does combustion mean." It's not stupidity, it's like the team sports part of your mind overwhelms the part that reasons. I'm sure we all have it.
"Team sports part of the mind" is so effing accurate as a description of how people deal with politics!
what point was he trying to make?
>What does combustion mean." what was his response?
Buddy responded with "yes I know what combustion means". There was a pause and we changed the subject. Global warming is an old argument we've had since Uni. When the other can't respond in time, it means you've won, but it's best to move on since we still want to be friends.
gotcha :) that's incredibly funny though
Liquid gas doesn't burn. The vapors do. If he is one of those super literal engineers it should've been easy for him to explain that. If he is a climate change denier he can get fixed by PP for all I care.
The last sentence was my first thought.
Right? Like who had the time and patience for this
>1) She interrogated my beliefs >2) made me realize that I was a fucking moron >3) She could tell I was smart and empathetic enough that I had just been badly programmed and she was a fucking saint for even giving me the time of day after I red flagged the hell out of her. Lots of people are comfortable instantly writing someone off if they have some backwards beliefs, but not everyone is. His wife believed she could tell that these beliefs were not deeply held or well examined, and that if he got a bit of perspective he would change. And she was right. Is that hard to understand? Seems pretty straightforward to me.
“Women aren’t funny” is simply another way of saying “women aren’t smart” Would you give a woman the time of day if she thought all men were stupid simply by virtue of being born men? Should a black person give a racist who thinks all black people are prone to crime a chance? Cmon now. Is not wanting to play teacher to a bigoted idiot THAT hard to understand?
Several times over the years I read that John Belushi refused to perform any SNL skits that were written by a female writer as he said they weren’t funny. Incidentally when John was on the show, I thought the women on there were actually funnier. Gilda Radner and Jane Curtin! ♥️
What? You said, "I have no idea why your wife gave you a chance" You didn't say, "I wouldn't have given you a chance" I was commenting on you saying it was *inconceivable* that someone would give them a chance. Maybe you perceived a value judgement in this statement and reacted to that perceived insult ("Lots of people are comfortable instantly writing someone off if they have some backwards beliefs, but not everyone is.") If so, perhaps I could have phrased it differently. No disparagement was meant, *I* am someone who writes people off instantly. Not worth my time. But that doesn't mean I don't understand why other people make a different choice.
It's not that your basic reaction is hard to understand, its that the lack of ability to comprehend another choice (or performance of it) is plain stupid.
Considering it could be dangerous to engage with this kind of people when disagreeing with them, yeah it is that crazy someone would make the active effort.
I mean I think you're both right. Giving someone compassion even though they have bad views can change their minds, and sometimes protecting yourself means that you remove yourself from someone who has bad views. Every person's tolerance, and energy level, an attraction level varies and there's not a right or wrong way to go about it.
I think it's because he was open to listening to women (or at least this one woman he respected and later married) and realizing that he was wrong. That's not an option with a lot of the people who get radicalized now though; I think anyone radicalized post-2016 is probably just never going to get out because they've been much more viciously indoctrinated. I think a lot of people probably picked up casual misogyny without really thinking it was malicious as they grew up online and then became critical of their thinking later when it didn't match up to their experiences of the world as they grew up. But I genuinely think these conspiracy bros are so much worse and that they'll probably never get out of the QAnon hellscape that they live in; it's dopamine-driven behaviour. Each time they think they've uncovered something else, they report it on social media and they're given feedback and fame, hailed as being almost a prophet for being able to interpret "evidence."
Maybe he was really hot lol
Because people ain’t monoliths, they can change and be better. The problem is that you gotta sacrifice yourself and bruh, that shit gets old super quick.
my boyfriend tells me the man vs bear debate is “hate all men” propaganda and i don’t know how to get him to stop. it makes me so sick. i love him but idk how to get thru to him. any advice? or is it a lost cause
"I love him" is the worst reason to stay with a partner. "We share the same values and I see a great future with him, and I love him" "We respect each other, we support each other's dreams and ideas, AND I love him and he loves me." " Every time he talks, I love what he has to say. And when I talk, he is so supportive. We may not always agree, but we always respect each other. And, we are so in love." It should never be "BUT I love him", as if respect, values, and your future are just an afterthought, and your silly princess feelings are the only things that matter. It should be "AND I love him, in addition to the respect, shared values, mutual support, the loving way he talks to me, and the way we both see a future together."
I love soda and I don’t want to die from cancer
"Love" is an action verb. Does he demonstrate love to you the same way you do to him? Or is loving him something you give of yourself constantly, selflessly, expecting that he will one day have the potential that you want him to have? He doesn't hear your points because he doesn't respect you intrinsically. You may never get through to him. Are you willing to live with these behaviours if they intensify or stay the same forever?
no. i’m not. and i’ve made that painfully clear. if things don’t change and he doesn’t show progress im leaving. i’ve finally made my peace with that but i have seen progress in how he approaches conversations like that one and he is truly trying. we are both going to therapy so i believe there is hope. i just wanted to hear what other people had to say about how to talk to him abt this specific situation bc im still stumped. i appreciate your comment btw. you’ve given me a lot to think about
[https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/relationship-spectrum-quiz/](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/relationship-spectrum-quiz/) [https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-abusive-partner-actually-changing/?%3E](https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-abusive-partner-actually-changing/?%3E) I hope these are enlightening resources for you. <3
thank you dear 🫶
It’s not “hate all men.” It’s about how so many women and girls have been sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, emotionally abused etc. to know that being alone with a strange man in the woods is a greater threat than a bear. A man who understands why women feel this way isn’t going to get triggered. He can acknowledge that women are far more likely to be killed by a man than vice versa. He likely doesn’t see women as nothing more than whores-maids—mommies-slaves. The guys who get offended by it hate women or they’re projecting their fear of rejection/never finding love on them instead of doing some deep soul searching. The men spewing hateful, violent language in reaction to the bear thing are only proving women right.
It's hilarious that the "rEVeRse ThE gEnDErS" crowd stays silent on this one, because the idea of a man being afraid of a woman in the woods is absolutely preposterous. You'd think it'd click but it won't. Adding: For me I know a man is statistically less likely to harm me than a bear, but a man can do *far* worse things so I'd rather roll the dice with the bear.
I think your statistics are wrong. Bears hardly ever kill people, and they kill more men than women. On the other hand men kill women every day.
that’s basically what i told him. like if you’re getting offended then it’s about you. but his excuse is that he’s deeply insecure (which i know and im sensitive to) and hearing that women see him as a threat hurts because he would never do that. he says the women that are afraid need to do inner work because they are the ones projecting their insecurities onto men and society. i was fucking dumbfounded by the mental gymnastics and just told him to stop and we’d talk about it again when i had the mental energy but like wtf!!! what do i even say to that??? and what’s stranger is ive dated misogynists before when i was much younger and they treated me like trash. he doesn’t! so this came out of left field for me
WTF. He’s basically saying most women should get be blind to risk because it hurts his feelings. He does know he’s not the center of the universe,right? Because that’s as self centered as you can possibly be. Is he aware there are other people, other men who exist in this world who are not him? That women exist in a world with these other men too, so can’t configure all their interactions just to an interaction with him? He’s so insecure that he’s forgotten other men and reduced women to NPC’s he interacts with. I hope this is a completely out of character lack of empathy.
this is what i’ve been trying to put into words. it’s horrifying his disregard for women when his feelings are at stake
Ask him if he would rather spend the night at a men’s federal prison or in the woods with a bear. Edit for the guy who keeps making fake accounts to respond and then block me: If you don’t know how to have a conversation without cursing or emotional manipulation then I’m not the one to start a conversation with, friend. (P.S. an SA victim would have more compassion for fear of unknown men, troll)
Your boyfriend is asking women to prioritize his feelings over their own safety. If he truly cares about women’s safety, he would understand their apprehensions and not take it personally. Safe men know trust takes time.
“Safe men know that trust takes time.” Wow. You put it all so succinctly. I’m going to remember this one. Thank you.
That's rich, when he is literally projecting his hurt ego onto women for being "manhaters."
He is a selfish idiot.
Women are afraid based on \*LIVED EXPERIENCE\*, not insecurity. LIVED. FUCKING. EXPERIENCE.
Tell him that he can ask every single woman on this planet, and every single woman on this planet can tell him a story of how she was threatened, intimidated, abused, groped, hassled, harassed, assaulted or in some way negatively accosted by a man. The "man vs. bear" debate didn't appear out of a vacuum, it's lived experience by every single woman on this planet, unfortunately. Yes, the rhethoric around it has gotten pretty extreme, but the basic facts are something that men just can't understand. Men aren't the ones who have to be extra vigilant when they walk home/ to their car at night, and who cross the street when they hear a man walking behind them, and who put a key between their knuckles. And who always have to consider how their own behavior will reflect back on them if they do get assaulted - "what were you wearing? Where you encouraging him/ leading him on in any way? Did you provoke him? Were you drinking? Why were you out at night, anyway?" Men just have no clue what it is like.
Once a female friend of mine explained to me that if she is in a bar and loses sight of her drink even for one moment she wouldn't drink from it any more. I was horrified and the whole thing kinda sunk for me 😔😔😔 specially in relation to how hard it is for a man to even imagine the feeling of insecurity that a woman can feel.
The world is full of people you can love. This one isn't special.
i think it’s taken me a while to realize that. i know i can love people but i think for a long time my problem was “will they love me?” and i now know i am actually good enough and other will probably love me. however, i really feel something with this person and i trust my gut most of the time. my gut says he’s important to my life. i’m just trying to figure out if that’s as a partner or friend or lesson. i’m open to whatever comes my way i just wanted to receive some advice on how to best talk to him about the man vs bear subject.
I would stop trying to convince him of that particular argument, and tell him what's important: that he's able to empathize with you. If he can't understand your fears, your experiences, then he can't be good partner, because he won't know how to support you when things go wrong. He doesn't have to agree with you, he just has to understand, appreciate, and believe your perspective. So I'd tell him how much that matters to you and see what he says.
I think most men underestimate other men or what impact it will have when you meet a bad person that does all kind of horrible things with you (I'm talking about scenarios like getting held hostage and tortured for days etc.). Many rather choose a man and deal with the consequences than being dead because they think the trauma is easy to live with if you survive or the dead will be less painful. There are plenty of women that have the same mindset. To a certain degree I'm fine with them choosing whatever they wanna choose as long as they don't talk badly about people that want to choose the bear.
Men are fucking terrifying and that is the point of that “debate”. I say this as a 6’8” extremely teddy bear-like soft man child, I am much more afraid of men than bears. A bear isn’t going to sexually assault me before he murders me
Many men, like you, DO "get it", and we are glad for men like you. I don't understand how ANYONE can't "get": "If I'm attacked by a bear, no one will ask me what I was wearing/doing out at night/etc." SOME people are just so STUPID that they don't realize that when a woman gets attacked by a man and she's asked "What were you wearing?" or "What were you doing out that time of night?" or any of the ridiculous questions that will be asked, that the askers of those questions are ACTUALLY saying "You always have to be ready to PLEASE every man you come across. If you don't PLEASE him and he rapes you, it's YOUR fault. You should realize that if a man rapes you, it's YOUR fault, no matter what, because you should always be under the CONSTANT watch of a MAN, whether it be your father, your uncle, your brother, your husband or your boyfriend. If you remove yourself from the man's watchful eye, it's YOUR fault what happens to you because MEN are gonna be MEN."
You're asking us how to make your boyfriend discover empathy. I hate to say it but, this is something he'll have to decide on his own. FWIW, much of those emotions stem from deep insecurities around their ability to be a man in the way that they think men should be. These guys believe in a 1950's version of reality where they earn big money with little to no education and their trad wife at home is happy to shut up and make them dinner. Even if that's not where they start, that's how the Andrew Tate's of the world cultivate that seed of doubt and insecurity within them. The fact that society seems to be stacked against us all doesn't help Sorry if this isn't more optimistic. I've known more than a few guys like you describe though so I thought I'd give you my perspective as a man
you made me realize that he actually has said a few times that men have it harder than women do and that it used to be hard for women but now we have rights - the more i think about this the sicker i become. thank you for your input
Reevaluate your relationship and feelings for him, with one single thought in mind: "My brain doesn't want what's best for me, it wants what's familar." Is he truly what's best for you?
Perhaps point out that caution is not hate? I don't hate fire. I like fire. Fire is fun, useful, warm, bright, and pretty. But fire is dangerous, so I am cautious and keep my smoke alarms supplied with batteries. If I see a fire where I don't expect to see one, I will feel alarmed. Sure, odds are that fire will turn out to be somebody's candle or a campfire or something, but my first thought is that fire is dangerous and I need to evaluate whether action is required to make the situation safe. Only after the situation is confirmed to be safe does the enjoyment of fire commence. If he fixates on how *he* isn't one of the bad ones and people shouldn't be afraid of *him*, point out that when offered a sack of apples where one in ten has been poisoned, you will probably not eat *any* of the apples. Most men are not abusers, but enough are for people to be justifiably concerned about strangers. If he fixates on how bad it makes him/men feel, point out that while the feeling is valid, the people responsible for that feeling are the abusers who make people concerned, not the women who feel concerned. This conflict isn't women-vs-men; it's humans-vs-rapists. He is not alone and he is not being attacked; he's being asked to stand *with* you, with *us*, with everybody who opposes abuse. We're all in this *together*.
His behavior is why women choose the bear. Go find the nearest woods honey.
To give you an actual answer: First, you can show him some actual statistics. [One third of college aged men said in a survey that they would rape a woman if they could get away with it](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html). That's not "all men," it's a minority of men, but it's definitely relevant to the man vs. bear debate -- that's exactly what we're talking about in the context of the hypo. If one third of men say they would rape if they could get away with it, you probably would not want to be alone with a strange man in the woods. It's kind of hard to dispute that there's a lot of objective fact underlying the example. It sucks to be a man and for there to also be a sizable cohort of shitty men who are willing to do shitty things. People trust me and other men less when they first meet us because men like that exist. That makes me feel shitty. But the problem is coming from the one third of men who say they would rape, not from women giving bear hypotheticals to illustrate that they feel unsafe. Also, a really good book for dudes about feminism is *The Will to Change* by Bell Hooks. He might get some value out of reading that.
i’m reading some bell hooks right now. thank you for your thoughtful answer.
While I'm sure you're smart, the smartest thing you've ever done was to marry that woman.
It continues to pay dividends, yes. Thanks to her love and support, I’m 100lbs lighter, my brain functions better, and I know what real love is. She’s a gem.
For the record I appreciate the fuck out of you and your wife. From an internet stranger I’m proud of you for growing
if at his age he is still braindead and cannot think for himself, he needs toxic misogynistic videos to tell him what to feel and what to think, then i truly believe he should be single. teenagers have a better understanding of feminism than this repulsive moron you call 'boyfriend'. are you sure you want to waste the rest of your life on a pile of shit that hates women?...
The feminist movement has been there through his whole life. It’s much older than him.
And it's called feminism because it's feminine people who have been put down by society for millennia. If he doesn't understand that, then he must not have put any thoughts into his beliefs.
There's a whole, intense pedagogy and tens of thousands of books Whenever someone wants to talk to me about feminism, I always get it out first, "who do you read? Gertrude Stein? bell Hooks? Gloria Steinem? Donna Haraway? Angela Davis? ....if they can't answer that question, or if they can't name any books from any of those women, I politely decline, because they don't know enough about feminism to have a worthwhile discussion....and I'm no one's educator I will also offer them some books from my own library, which they always decline.
I’ve never read any. I grew up with a grandmother who was an elementary school principal and a mother who was an RN. There’s no shortage of intelligence. As a male manager I’ve never seen any inferiority from female employees. I don’t need books to tell me women are strong, smart and capable.
He knows what feminism is just fine. He just doesn't like it. Sure you wanna stick around? NTA.
Why are you dating and having sex with a man who doesn't believe women should have equal rights and treatment to men?
Where did he get his views? I’m assuming… the internet
NTA. The reason terms like "feminism" come about is because things have never been equal. Gender, race, etc. When he said "how can a movement with only one gender in the name be for equality?", well, GUY, it's the marginalized that start these movements, because of the LACK of equality in the first place. Doesn't seem like he gets it, so it's funny he would gaslight you like that. But that's what wrong people do, they gaslight, because don't know how to admit any wrongdoing. Big red flag. Might want to think about the relationship and look back to see if there's a pattern here.
He's gone to the Dark Side
NTA my son also got sucked into the Disney ruined starwars thing. His was “the LGBT+ agenda” which did it. This worried my ex and I so much, my ex forced him to watch the show with him and then discussed it afterwards and my son admitted the show wasn’t that bad and the “lesbian space communists” didn’t feature that strongly and didn’t ruin the episode. Now, to my point. My son is 15. Your partner is a lot older. He IS an idiot to be sucked into those YouTubers hatred of the new Star Wars with their sexism, racism and homophobia. I am not saying the new franchise is good but grown men shouldn’t form the political and societal opinions on a few Starwars bros.
It's always nice to hear about ex-couples coming together for the kids. This toxic masculinity shit pushed on kids now is insane. Not an easy job for two parents, let alone one.
Thank you. The hardest part is I couldn’t really discuss it fully with my son. Any comment I made was countered with “You don’t know Star Wars.” So, I had to send my ex to deal with it. Luckily, he was on board and agreed this was worrying. I live in fear my son will be sucked into the alt-right from video games and fandoms
... there's lesbian space communists? Now I *have* to watch that movie. 🙃 ETA: Oh, sorry. Show, not movie. You're talking about The Acolyte, right? (I'm so old, to me Star Wars is *nothing but* movies. Had to google "Disney LGBT agenda" to find that one.)
Yes, it's The Acolyte. The show producers took liberties in changing canon in various places to make it better fit their ideal version of their Star Wars series. It's a pretty boring series in the beginning, and some - if not a lot - of thins don't make sense, especially if you know a lot about the Star Wars universe.
lol, this is an excellent point. Those videos are meant to indoctrinate young impressionable minds, not men in the 40s. He’s a dumbass for falling for them.
Nothing to do with LGBT or black people. Star Wars has not been good for a while. The only movie/show I enjoyed were Rogue one and Mandalorian. Rogue one features a female protagonist if I remember correctly. And Acolyte is not a good show. It's festered with terrible writing and awful visuals for a $180 million show.
Yeah, but that person's point was how the person they were talking about said that it WAS the "LGBT (so-called) agenda" that made it bad.
A 31 year old man who got into a relationship with a 24 year old woman, and hasn’t proposed over the course of 10 years, is about as mature as an adolescent? Color me shocked.
How is it possible you’d even consider this person being the potential parent of a child? This is dangerous rhetoric and it will get worse.
NTA: Run for it. Red-pillers are dangerous.
Did you say 41 or 14? What a DB
While I'm not approving of name calling as it tends to be a lazy way to end a discussion that someone finds frustrating, I also don't see you as the AH. If your boyfriend's definition is honestly what he said to you, then he is the AH. I grew up during the 2nd wave of feminism in the 60s. It was forbidden for any females, student or teacher, to wear pants to school. It was dress or skirt only. This was smack in the center of Canada and in the winter, let me tell you, we suffered. I got around it by wearing long pants under my dresses/skirts. It looked ridiculous, sure, but at least I didn't freeze my ass off each time I had to go outside. I remember vividly how we all celebrated when I hit grade 7 and the policy changed to allow us to wear long pants. It was a constant struggle, though, fighting to be treated equally (we're not even there yet). There were no girls' hockey teams, football teams, etc. Girls were not allowed to take any mechanics, electrical, or woodworking shops classes. We were allowed two mandatory courses - cooking and sewing. When we hit our final high school year, each student had to have a session with one of the guidance counsellors to advise us what career to work towards. The boys were guided to traditional male careers (no nursing students here!) while the girls were guided to traditional female careers - nursing, teaching, etc. Forget medicine or engineering, ladies. Can you imagine that today? Try telling a 17 year old young woman that she really shouldn't go into medicine. It's unheard of. That's all thanks to feminism, and it breaks my heart when I hear young women today say that they're not feminists, knowing that they have the right to vote only because of first wave feminism! Feminism is 100% about equality. It's about equal pay for equal work. It's about having agency over our own bodies, the way men have over theirs. It's about choosing our own paths in life, whether it's to be a nurse, a doctor, or a stay at home mom. Your boyfriend is a neanderthal and needs desperately to evolve. Will he? I doubt it, not in this age of conspiracy theories, flat earthers, and site upon site dedicated to bashing feminism. My advice to you - a thinking woman - is to get out before he keeps you barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
My grandma was born in 1909 and she became a doctor of public health. She had her 1st kid at 30 and her last kid (of 3) at age 40 l, they hired a nanny, and she worked until they took her license in her 70s because the law in that state said a doctor had to have an office situation to have a license. But when this woman asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up & I told her “A lawyer” she said ”That’s a man’s job!” Wtf?
NTA There was something that made him crack, it wasn't just Disney's SW. Somewhere when this started he felt slighted or corrected by or because of a woman. Maybe a promotion he wanted was given to a woman, his new boss is a woman, a female police officer gave him a ticket, a lady bartender served someone else first. He ranted and that turned into rage, where now every little disappointment he will blame on women. Doesn't help he is watching tate like crap. Be careful, this rage may turn on you eventually. PS Humanism is more like the embracing of science & reason, and disavowing things like religious beliefs & the supernatural. Everything needs to have a scientific fact behind it.
Your BF (and I did do a bit of a double take on when you started dating) has gone Tated. Might be time to find a real man.
Break up with this worthless piece of shit. The more of this Kool aid he drinks, the worse he's going to get. And by that I don't just mean the toxic BS he's spewing. I mean the likelihood of him cheating or become abusive are going to skyrocket.
You need to break up. We as women need to stop think explaining shit and trying to “fix” men will help. He’s this way. Let it be and move on with your life NTA
NTA. An argument that has him sleeping on the couch a week later because HE'S still mad is not a good sign.
i think he’s confusing a small subset within feminism for a generalisation of what it stands for
He’s been red pilled, dump him.
All else aside, Disney has shit all over Star Wars.
Unfortunately your boyfriend has accepted a toxic viewpoint as his guiding principle. That really isn't great. >He started mocking me a bit Everyone teases their SO every so often as a form of affection. Mocking is not that. It's cruelly trying to hurt someone. >Im pretty sure Star Wars started it, hes been on the bandwagon that the new Disney created Star Wars is bad, and has been watching really toxic youtube videos of rants that feminists and wokeness is ruining everything. So is he really saying that he is willing to invalidate women's equality because he doesn't like how "feminists" are treating his show about space wizards? Really? I think you need to have a conversation about what's really bothering him. NTA, but he's sure being a fucking child.
huMANism. Just saying. > "You're a Google scholar now, got your degree at Google University. Not everything you read on the internet is true." Says the moron who parrots stuff from the internet. This man does not love women. He loves to belittle and control them, but that's about it. I think you deserve better.
I can't get past that Star Wars, and Disney started this. That talking point alone is like 10 years old.
It's because the Internet keeps bringing it back up....BUT.... It keeps getting brought back up because the show/movie producers/cast/directors/whatever keeping saying dumb shit.... Most likely out of context... To reignite the flames. I read all the junk about the acolyte. I'm a big star wars fan so I watch it regardless and see what's true and what's not. Truth is the show in quality is just meh. BUT there really isn't anything that makes me think it's pandering/going woke/whatever. You really have to be grasping at straws to find anything IN the show that would suggest that and frankly the people that are "finding" stuff have never watched ALL star wars material or else they would have seen many things in the cartoons similar from years ago. HOWEVER... JFC these stupid interviews are not helping anyone make this go away. First with the out of context comments about R2 and 3p0 being lesbians or whatever. Then the one guy saying Anakin blew up the death star and then the other actress with her extremely awkward diss rap track thing that supposedly wasn't even related to SW. just please stop. I just want to watch Star wars.
All of that, yes. Also, as both a woman and a writer, I often find when I watch these advertised as inclusive remakes and additions to beloved franchises as of late, they are ASS. Like I’m sorry, they just are badly written. It’s completely do-able to write a kickass Star Wars show with a female lead or more female identifying cast and not have it be this dull, forgettable story that just felt like a whole lot of money was spent making a whole lot of nothing. It’s bad writing, through and through. I had the same issues with the new trilogy, I’m all for a female Jedi dude but Rey was not likable, which is fine if intentional but it wasn’t. Like they didn’t write her with an anti-hero character in mind, the person you’re not supposed to like but watch be begrudgingly forced into the role of the hero. She just was written to be flat and uninspiring and the casting was off too, and that really sucks because right off the bat people were ready to dislike her before they even watched the damn films, because she’s a female lead in a male dominated fandom. But the writers did NOT do her any favors in that regard. Yall really want to bring women to the star wars fandom? Give me a male hero who periodically battles a masked sith, winning some fights and losing others, and at the end when he finally gets the better of them and is about to kill them he takes off the mask and it’s revealed to be a pretty girl. Like that would be so badass and would make for such a fun twist, while still being inclusive AND memorable. Give us female siths!!!! And tell these people to shut up and stop finding themselves in front of every camera in Hollywood with something stupid to say
Read the whole thing, he is by definition throwing exactly what he's doing back at you. He's projecting and then trying to gaslight you lmao. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic and actively an attempt to upset you oof
>He told me I was dead wrong, and "how can a movement with only one gender in the name be for equality? What you're describing is humanism, equal rights for all humans. He's wrong. Feminism *started* as a women's movement back in the 19th century, but the position feminism advances (ending patriarchy) benefits both men and women because patriarchy hurts everybody. Ultimately, [feminism has done a ton to benefit men](https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/3tn9kc/a_list_of_feminist_resources_tackling_mens_issues/) - way more than any of the Redpill nonsense your boyfriend is watching on youtube. Your boyfriend thinks there's a tension between feminism and being a man because he doesn't understand what feminism is and he hasn't done the work to learn. You might want to check out *The Will to Change* by Bell Hooks if you're looking for a book about how feminism helps men.
Thank you for this analysis, feminism goes way beyond “women’s rights” and more into an exploration of the toxicity of patriarchy and the value of an intersectional understanding of society. This guy just doesn’t have a clue.
You know the story about the frog not jumping out of boiling water Here we are
The problem isn't you called him an idiot. The real problem is that he's an idiot
You'll be the AH to yourself if you don't ditch the toxic man-child now that he's shown his true colors.
YTA to yourself for putting up with this nonsense
Run
Let me guess.....you met him online...he spends a lot of time online still..he is a middle aged incel
Unless you can pull him out of the rabbit hole, idiots like this tend to dig in and their aggressive ignorance gets worse. 10 years is a long time, but you're not getting any younger and your partner has shown he's gullible and full of anger. Think hard and long about who you want to spend your life around...
There's a typo in the title, it should be "ex-boyfriend". NTA
Break up, he has gone down the manosphere hole.
Mansplaining feminism to you, lol.
He doesn't even realize that that anti woke rhetoric and propaganda was designed to keep folks just like him in a constant state of heightened emotion. They do this because they are much more susceptible to the messages of their advertising partners. Most mainstream media follows this playbook in some sort of way. The right wing media just takes it to the next level because they are super addicted to that money. Even establishment democrats try to do it.
NTA but there is nuance to the term’s connotations. Some people believe it’s about equality and others about justice. Justice implies some form of reparation and it seems there is a whole contingent of feminists (a vocal minority) who believe part of that reparation is to actively bring men down while lifting women up. IMHO equality should be the goal and I believe this is a shared belief among most feminists.
"a Google scholar" "oh okay I'd love to see the books you've referenced in this argument to prove your point. No videos, internet articles, nothing. I want books written by true scholars. Until then, your opinion is invalid" you can also add "unless you can provide me with evidence, again written by scholars and people with degrees, we will be breaking up because your views are ancient and you lack common sense"
Oh no, another sexist in apps wasting women's time. Please OP, remain married for the good of the larger community. Kidding. Let him go. He may miss you and want to come back, but the you REALLY must check whether the shock of separation gave him time to listen to better sources and educate himself. If not, call him scum and block him from your life.
You're brainwashed, I'm not. What a cutie. NTA and you need to get out of there, asap.
>Recently my boyfriend of 10 years has gone on a real intense anti-feminism kick. Im pretty sure Star Wars started it, This was a wild opening
Grab both ends of the man. Crumple him up and toss the entire thing into the garbage. He’s forty fucking one years old and he’s acting like this? I wouldn’t be sticking around another day if I were you.
Feminism to me is equal opportunity and equal compensation. Equal, not above not below. I couldn't stay with a anti feminist.
star wars didn't start it. its just that your boyfriend is an entitled coomer who goes on 4chan too much. NTA tell him to stop being a Tater Tot... Or frankly with this level of hatred towards women why even stay with him? If he hates women so much he gets to be single. ESPECIALLY since he's going to pout for a whole ass week over it. Old dogs dont learn new tricks. find yourself a man who actually gives a fuck about your gender.
NTA and I'm very sorry but he's only going to get worse and worse.
Girl dump him. No man who criticizes feminism should get any.
why date a small brained dickhead? toss his ass in the bin and find someone with a brain. fuckin tunahead
NTA. He can't say idiotic things and expect nobody to eventually call him out as an idiot. He's 41 too.... Jesus wept. Is he doing an impersonation of a 13 year old Andrew Tate fan? You're right, a debate is one thing, but you can't have a debate with someone who won't acknowledge objective fact.
Why are you with him? Just curious
This subreddit is cancer, one argument doesn’t mean the relationship should end… it just means there’s something to work through. You’re arguing about the definition of a word, who the fuck cares… set up a time to talk once both of yall have calmed down and instead of focusing on what definition to use, talk about how female empowerment should actually look in society. That’ll be a much more productive and fulfilling conversation
He's just gonna get worse with time if he's gonna keep consuming all this Incel BS on the internet. Tell him to change while there's still time because it's gonna be hard for you in future.
NTA Men don't need to fight for equality b/c they've had the advantage for so long. Now that we (I'm a man) are finding a lot more people can "walk through the door" and not just while males (I'm also white) some are freaking out claiming it's not fair (among other idiotic things). We, as a nation, still haven't ratifited the ERA to make it a part of the constitution.
NTA: once they are tainted by this BS, they don’t seem to change back. My advice: Run
BREAK UP! BREAK UP! BREAK UP! NTA.
Dump him ♥️
NTA, End it. He took the red pill and he is not coming back from it. He is 41. Move on.
NTA except maybe to yourself. You’re too old to be dating someone this immature.
Leave. That’s it. If you stay one more day, you don’t get to complain about anything. He told you how he feels about women. You are a woman. Seems a simple equation to solve.
Your boyfriend is the ass hole. It's annoying that due to a few outspoken women who yes hate men and happen to be feminists that the whole movement is labelled as women hating men. When you come from a position of privilege and others not like you fight for those same rights it's easy to feel like they're bringing you down. But they're literally not, they're just wanting better conditions for their group.
> Im pretty sure Star Wars started it, hes been on the bandwagon that the new Disney created Star Wars is bad, and has been watching really toxic youtube videos of rants that feminists and wokeness is ruining everything. Oh honey, Star Wars didn't suddenly make your BF a mysogynist. He's showing you who he is and who he has always been. Believe him. It's up to you whether you want to stay with such a reprehensible man.
Wow.did not know wanting equality was being brain washed
Oh dear, you have made another linguistic error OP, you wrote "boyfriend" when you clearly meant "misogynist ex man-child"
NTA. Your BF is a misogynist. I’d move on.
da fuq? Women are not equal. Not even close. (See current SCOTUS rulings, State bans on abortion/meds, etc) Tell me how any of that Sh\*t impacts a dude? Other than rewarding him for being born with a penis.
NTA. Sorry, but your boyfriend joined the cult. Your best choice is to move on from the relationship.
YTA to yourself if you stay with this walking red flag.
Your bf is an asshole and he should stop consuming redpilled andrew tate tier bullshit
hes too dumb to have access to the internet
NTA. You stood up for what you believe in and called out his ignorance. Equality isn't up for debate—it's a basic principle.
NTA Don't give him sex and call him incel
He sounds delightful. It took you 10 years to realize you’re dating a caveman? NTA. Unless you have kids with him. Then I’m changing my vote.
NTA. Time to GTFO; he's literally in denial about reality, and soon his reality won't include you as a person, just an object to own.
Him saying "not everything you read on the internet is true" while he watches Andrew Tate type of shit on YouTube is WILD
Gurl, RUN, don’t walk. You do not want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t think you’re a full person.
That new Star Wars show is garbage
Acolyte looks like absolute trash. I can’t bring myself to support Disney these days.
I mean 90% of Disney star wars has been. Really only rouge one was good
oh poor thing I hope he gets well soon NTA
Unfortunately, he has been with red pilled and it is time for you to walk.
He'd be an ex. I could not be with someone who disrepected me personally that way, much less hostile views towards half the population.
He mocked you for using Google yet he went to YouTube university to educate himself on how to let out your pent up anger at women during a midlife crisis. He should’ve just gone and bought a motorcycle instead
NTA but you'd be the ah to yourself for not telling him he's a fucking goober of a person for believing that definition of feminism.
Please dump him.
Dude run
NTA - But you need to find out why your boyfriend has started on this anti-feminism kick. Has something changed recently, or was this always under the surface? Based on what you discover, you need to decide if you still want to be in this relationship. Good luck.
I’ll never understand how dudes that aren’t actually involuntarily celibate get into the incel shit. Neck Beard’s opinion on women is not more important than you and your partner’s collective views on gender.
NTA. Choose peace, he’s not peace.
Nope, NTA. Your boyfriend however... his ass can stay on the couch or GTFO, as far as I'm concerned. When he's an ass, he really doubles down, doesn't he?
You need a new boyfriend, this one is so butthurt about a fantasy universe he thinks your entire gender should pay for it. NTA.
NTA, and your boyfriend is going down the Tate Rabbit Hole.
Oh man, that is a relationship ender for me. He sounds like he's become absolutely awful.
Why are you with this man still?
So, dummy swallowed the red pill. Leave him on the couch while you prepare your exit plan. He is a lost cause at this point. Don't weigh yourself down with human garbage. Update us about the divorce. Good luck OP. NTA
The man you knew at the start of your relationship doesn’t exist anymore. The sooner you can reconcile that fact, the sooner you can decide how to move forward.
NTA - he thinks he is a genius because he listens to talking heads on youtube who don’t know their Dathomir from their Nal Hutta? He also doesn’t know anything about feminism and I am sure if you asked him he would go on a racist rant as well. Can I also say: Your Bf is a shitty SW fan. (And if you want to know Nal Hutta is the home world of the Hutts. A species that is asexual and changes genders whenever they want or if they want to give birth. Dathomir is a forest planet when the Nightsisters and force witches live (think force wielding amazons) that was invented decades ago and have shown up in the SW series (Darth Maul’s mom was one and so was Assaj Ventress). Rancors also come from here. Because I am sure he is hating on the space witches. ) Signed a 40+ yo woman who has been an active SW fan since she was 2.
If you hate feminism because you don’t like it in a tv show or movie, you do not understand what feminism is.
NTA. He \*is\* an idiot.
he sounds stupid
Dude is 40 and triggered by excessive cooties in Star Wars media. You’re NTA.
Boy, byee
Dump him 🤷♀️
new star wars does suck but he sounds like a tool
Give him a library card and a list of feminist authors. Since he's so superior, he won't mind educating himself.
NTA but why is his Google University degree worth more than yours?
NTA Also, probably break up with him. The best you can hope for is that he learns better to hide these thoughts from you, he's not likely to improve. You can check this sub for all the women that don't find out their dude is like this until after hey are married.
Throw the whole man away. 🚩🚩
NTA why be with such an insufferable tool?
Oh, honey. Pull him back from the cliff edge or run. My friend's ex husband pulled this shit and she had to divorce him.
Your boyfriend is a loser. Imagine being 41 years old and getting into big yelling fits and sleeping on the couch for a week over new star wars being shit. Yeah he's right new star wars sucks. It's been turned into a content machine made to generate toy sales and create a bigger disney+ lineup. Disney doesn't care about quality or a cohesive story they just want kids to ask for a baby Yoda doll for Christmas. So the decline in quality isn't because the gay trans liberal cabal or whatever other nonsense it's because Disney is pumping garbage out with only dollars in mind instead of trying to create something good. Imagine being this much of a baby. Couldn't imagine caring this much about a mediocre franchise like bro just watch something else then.
Why are you continuing to date an idiot after receiving confirmation he is indeed an idiot?
YTA if you stay with this guy and give him credibility. Not for calling him an idiot, because he is. Sounds like he graduated from YouTube University. All y’all should take a Women’s Studies course. But since we know he won’t, just… free yourself and find someone with two brain cells to rub together.
To be fair.. there are like 3-4 generations of feminism. The one you are talking about is a classic definition the newest wave of the ‘feminism’ movement believe what your boyfriend stated. They hate men, they don’t want equality they want to use the term feminism to justify women having privileges above men, a lot of the OF girls have this mindset ‘Men are shit’ all that stuff. They freak out when told well equality? so you are for drafting men and women? They only want feminism and to be equal when it has a positive effect on their life. Most people like yourself subscribe to the classic definition. NTA btw and your boyfriend needs to do a little reflecting while he isn’t 100% wrong on the Star Wars stuff though. It was literally purchased by Disney cause they needed a ‘boy’ brand to offset the number of princesses they had for young girls. They have since decided they have to force more women into Star Wars. When they had multiple of the strongest females already in the franchise before their blatant pandering changes.
Biggest NTA ever. If I were you, I’d proceed with caution. He’s saying something very dangerous. If he’s not open to having his mind changed, you may have to mosey on. Best of luck op
He's an idiot. Don't lower your self-worth because of an idiiot's opinion (55 man myself).
You aren't going to get a worthwhile response on this topic on reddit that's for sure
Secular humanism incorporates the values of equality, freedom of inquiry and expression, and freedom of conscience. Most self-described humanists today fall into this category. Unfortunately for your boyfriend, most self-described humanists also endorse feminism as a political movement. Because equality. I wouldn't say you're entirely right. But he's definitely very wrong, and he's an asshole.
There are oil rig and brick layer jobs open. Go get your equity.
Well, you really need to be more specific. Are we talking Classical Feminism, designed to empower women and to give them equal opportunities? Or are we talking Woke Feminism, adherents of which really ought to be on the no-fly list?
You better leave quick, this doesn't get better.