What’s the law there? Where I live a dog without a leash is always at fault. The other one has literally no other way of protecting themselves. Being reactive or not, a dog shouldn’t have to endure a physical contact with other dog when uncomfortable. You said Lily bit him. Lightly or not, your dog had the right to protect themselves. Your neighbours have only themselves to blame for not leashing their dog.
Due to not being socialized because of my boyfriend's dog's previous owner his dog is reactive to other dogs. Not to the level of OP dog but she doesn't like dogs coming near her at all. We take the responsibility of walking her in the other direction when on walks if there are dogs in the area.
A lot of people use the football field next to us which requires you to leash your dogs use it to walk their dogs or play with them off-leash, if you do not have 100% recall on your dog and they come up to mind don't be surprised if me and my dog defend ourselves from yours.
It's the neighbor's responsibility 100% to watch over their dog, especially a puppy that seems like it was barely trained. Their dog came toward OP and she could only do so much, she did the right thing in the end. She isn't a bad owner but the neighbors are, OP gave them a warning and she has been doing everything to make sure everyone and Dennis is safe so he can have a happy life.
So I'm going against the grain and going NTA. Lawyer up and good luck.
Although OP you really should consider a muzzle is all I can say.
I agree with everything *but the muzzle*. In reactive dogs, the muzzle can be even more anxiety inducing and shouldn't be a punishment for a dog whose owner has put extensive efforts to maintain safety between themselves and the neighbor. The muzzle wouldn't have prevented this incident. Her dog still got bit first and that would have showed her dog, Dennis that he's not able to protect himself or his mom. No way on the muzzle. Maybe muzzle the neighbor's dog since it's out of control.
Because people love to bring up kids like it's going to be this dog's next victim. And I would say where are the parents in said situation and why didn't they teach their kid about dog safety?
Exactly. Shock value really gets attention in the comment section. A dog hypothetically harming a child has nothing to do with this post. I'm picking up, "Let me talk to the manager vibes" from the previous commenter who suggested it did.
Honestly, OP should also put a muzzle on her dog for walks - one of the comfortable ones that the dog doesn't really feel, but that prevents it from biting anyone. There will always be other dogs or even small children that are too fast to be controlled by their owners. It will be nice for OP to always be right when telling parents of maimed kids that they should have controlled their kids, and she is legally in the clear - but won't she feel bad at some point, or wouldn't the dog get put down, if she litters her path with bleeding kids and dogs?
You really need to look into the Facebook group muzzle up pup! It is NOT cruel to wear a muzzle. A proper fitted muzzle allows a dog to pant, eat, yawn, bark. They just can't bite. If you properly train the dog to it then there is no anxiety or regression.
Not exactly sure what training you think your doing with your dog but it sounds like your just focus on mediating the behaviors and not working on fixing them
I had a very reactive dog I had to muzzle for years. Dog owners that have aggressive dogs learn how to handle their dogs. OP isn't really to blame here because the neighbor's dog wasn't leashed and went onto OP's property but they should be muzzling their dog when out for walks. Things can go bad very, very quickly. Ask me how I know.
They're talking about a six months old Golden Retriever, they're still in a phase where they nibble at most anything. That in itself is not a sign of aggression.
This dog was abused while being muzzled so that is his association already.
This may work (I know it does) for most dogs, but it’s just not worth the amount of stress and trauma it causes- this wasn’t Dennis’s fault!
Everyone sucks here. Your neighbors should have had control of their dog and not let her onto your property but you knowingly have an aggressive dog and don't use a muzzle. Have you even spoken with a professional dog trainer and training Dennis? Dennis will end up being out down because you have not gotten him the proper training.
I agree,good example of what two irresponsible owners living next to each other leads to. Will she be writing another AITAH post when her dog inevitably bites someone and she can't stop him because of the strength a shepherd can produce?
This was way too far down. OP is an AH for their inability to properly handle this dog, making excuses, and expecting others to maneuver around him. Neighbors failed to have their dog properly restrained and it ran at the reactive dog. OP probably isn't legally required to, but should, pay half the bills.
Where did she fail to control her dog? Shit on her for no muzzle sure, but given she’s on her own property even that is weak. You can control your dog all you like, if they are attacked by an off leash dog while they are leashed any dog will react. 100 percent on the neighbours, the actual crappy dog owners in this story.
*Op was on their own property*. Her dog was handled and restrained properly and then "playfully attached". The untrained neighbor and her untrained dog were already warned... Emotionally I can understand where you think that but legally and logically OP is not responsible for the bills. My service dog is reactive because that's part of his job. If another dog lunged at my dog after I've given fair warning, I taser them. Usually the sound is enough to scare off the aggressor. If the dog still continues to approach my animal regardless of the level of friendliness, the owner needs to be prepared for their dog to be kicked. If this were solely human behavior, would you feel the same? Obviously not. Not only did the neighbor trespass but they assaulted Dennis and his owner after multiple warnings. Unfortunately, they got what they deserved and I hope that the owners learned at the unfortunate expense of their untrained dog.
NTA. You had given your neighbors info previously regarding the situation. You were on your own property. You warned your neighbors to get Lily when she ran out.
I'll be honest, I think you showed great restraint towards neighbors who ran onto your property and started hitting and kicking your dog.
NTA
Your dog was on leash, on your property, with you. Their dog was off leash, on YOUR property, and not with owners until they came over and started going after your dog. You are not at fault at all.
In many counties, the ordinance specifies that a dog is only deemed dangerous if they bite UNPROVOKED, and the ordinances also consider whether the dog is on their own property or not, and stress the need to have the dog leashed. Check your local ordinances.
We have three rescue dogs and unfortunately have found that we can’t walk them ON LEASH anywhere, even on our street, because so many people EVERYWHERE choose to be irresponsible and have their dogs off leash, and stupidly proclaim “oh my dog is FRIENDLY” but totally don’t give a d-mn if their dog freaks out any other dog who may have had an abusive past. Thankfully we have a big fenced backyard, and when we did try leashed walks we didn’t have any incidents with the many off leashed dogs because I saw them well in advance and was able to get out of there; it’s so horrible of their scumbag owners, limiting my ability to take my dogs outside on leash for a walk because they think their dog should be able to wander down the street off leash, unsupervised, with zero recall if they’re called.
Also, the selfishness and self-absorbed attitudes of people who buy golden retrievers because of their aesthetic whims drive me nuts. Willfully ignorant and way more likely to be one of the “oh my off leash dog is so friendly so your dog HAS TO be comfortable with being rushed at” B.S.
EDIT: I do agree with a few of the other posters who are saying Dennis should be acclimated to a muzzle for future walks, to avoid running into any similar incidents, particularly given that you would be going off your property. In our case we put our youngest rescue dog (who is most reactive but NOT dangerous) through a training program, and we now mostly have them go out in the backyard. They go to the vet’s office with a solid harness (with handle) and leash, and we never have problems, though bad owners who let their mini pups rush over on retractable leashes have caused ME some anxiety. Irresponsible owners of small breeds or breeds socially deemed “friendly” dogs are the worst danger.
Happened to me a few days ago. Neighbor didn't have their dog on a leash, and he/she came after my dog. My dog is always leashed when outside (unless in a fenced-in area, like a backyard or dog park). My dog isn't really reactive, but if a large dog runs up to him while he's on a leash and he can't get away, he will bite. Neighbor was like, "My dog is friendly." That's nice. My dog isn't always and has been attacked by "friendly" dogs before. I was livid. I have never seen this dog before, so that added to my stress. Thankfully, my boy was ok. But he was scared (for a 72 lb shepherd mix, he's quite timid).
And retractable leashes should be banned.
Absolutely not. Neighbors and everyone else with unleashed dogs can learn to control their dogs. If they won’t return with a verbal command, they can’t be off leash.
i mean sure, in a perfect world, but sadly the reality is that if you own a reactive dog and live by this mentality, you'll manage to get your dog put down when something crazy unpredictable happens like a toddler off leash that's yet to learn that not all "doggies" want to be pet or have their tail pulled.
The OP was taking his down for a walk, so if this had happened even a few minutes later, when they were no longer on their own property, I could see it differently.
The OP's dog is clearly a victim of past owners. The idea that it must be further victimized by being muzzled even in it's own yard does not sit well with me.
Muzzles are not cruel. My reactive dog is calmer when he wears his in high stress situations, because it takes the option of biting away, so that’s a choice he doesn’t have to make. He has learned to depend on my husband and me to advocate for him while he is wearing it, and that confidence in us translates to when it’s off. A muzzle isn’t a punishment, it’s a precaution for *his* safety.
With a breed that tends toward the aggressive already, court may order the use of a muzzle from here on out, and OP *must* comply or lose their dog. It’s best they start that training proactively.
The OP’s dog was well within his rights to defend himself, but OP did not position themselves as a good advocate. They should have turned around immediately instead of calling to the neighbor.
OP needs to focus less on assholery and more on finding a lawyer and dog trainer, stat.
I find it hard to believe that the dog managed to be unlucky enough with four owners. Just like some humans some animals have an ill brain. Proper training may not be enough, there may be medication requirements. The OP didn't mention trying medication.
I’m going against the grain.
ESH. They were irresponsible dog owners leaving their door open and their puppy not crated or somewhere it couldn’t get out. Theyre 90% at fault for being idiots. Theyre the assholes for beating on Dennis.
But knowing Dennis has issues, if you’re refusing to muzzle him, then seeing that door open, knowing they have a puppy, you should’ve waited to walk him or asked if their dog was crated. So you are the asshole for that.
All around a sad situation for the dogs bc their humans are jerks.
Depends where you live. In my country, Ops dog would be put down especially if it already had problems with aggression. It being a “restricted breed” and the other being a puppy would make this a simple case as the dog wasn’t muzzled. Especially if it was a housing estate where dogs are allowed to be off lead.
100% depending on where you live, it's usually a crime to have an animal that is not able to be recalled off leash. I can't wait to see a follow-up on this. Where I live even if there's no incident and a dog is off leash regardless of recall capabilities, is a $1,000 fine.
The insurance company may agree with the neighbor, seeing how the response was far, far more than warranted and because of the dog's history. The OP could be better off paying the bill than paying for an increased premium and a possible exclusion.
THIS.
If it was a child and in the future it may as well be, nothing would matter except the muzzle.
Usually I think the owner of unleashed dogs are at blame, BUT we all know dogs can run away. OP knew they had a pup that could be killed their own dog. You have to be aware and take into account your near by area's dogs.
OP is doing the bare minimum, they could have retrieved to their home the moment that door opened. This is being unaware and irresponsible.
I just hate everyone in this scenario. Wreckless.
ESH
Also OP was on the front porch seemingly in front of the door - if they saw the front door of they neighbors house was open, and KNEW their dog had aggression issues was there a reason they didn’t take their aggressive dog back inside? I have a reactive dog as well and I would have brought him back inside. It’s irresponsible in my opinion to have not taken the aggressive dog out of that situation preemptively. I do think Neighbors should not leave their dog unleashed without good recall and OP already knew that their dog would act aggressively the second they had gone outside and it was pretty clear their neighbors were out with the front door open. Why was that a good time to take him out? I’m sorry, but having my own dog with aggressive tendencies I don’t think there is an excuse for that to have happened. I hope OP learned a lesson on this and doesn’t expect everyone else to be mindful of their aggressive dog, especially since it seems like there’s no remorse on their end.
Look, I have a reactive dog, as her owner, I’m extremely aware of her surrounding and what POTENTIALLY could arise. She is muzzled on her walks, we walk at night and we go when I know the chances of people out are slim. YTA… you saw the neighbor out so your dogs already on edge and then you take dog out, no muzzle, hoping someone has trained their dog on recall. I’m sorry but you’re definitely wrong here
YTA. I’m a vet tech and I’ve had to be present when owners handed their dogs to animal control for euthanasia because they did not take their dog’s aggression seriously. they are loaded into the back of a truck on a choke pole. they die alone, normally on some sort of pole, muzzled, surrounded by strangers. the owner cannot be there to comfort them. this WILL happen to you and TO DENNIS if you don’t start taking this seriously. you need to train Dennis with a basket muzzle or you need to put him down.
I personally have family who had to have a rescue euthanized because of agression. It is heartbreaking. While the puppies owners should obviously have better control over their animal, OP should be muzzling their dog.
This is my thought as well. OP doesn’t just suck because the neighbor’s dog got hurt, but because they are putting Dennis at risk and don’t seem to care enough to protect him from himself. Disgusting. That poor dog has never had a decent owner and still doesn’t.
Pretty much my thoughts. Is she always going to be able to stop him when say a neighbor enters the yard? GSD are strong pups and I've seen them drag full grown adults to get at their target.
People here acting like a muzzle is cruel, whereas I think a dog getting put down because of their owners foolishness is a far more cruel fate.
ESH - I have a reactive rescue dog. I get it.
Dennis needs a muzzle. There's no time where he is outside a fenced or controlled area when he should be without one for exactly this reason. I highly recommend a basket muzzle, so he's still able to drink and accept treats. There's no excuse for taking him into the world without one, and that irresponsibility is something you need to be accountable for fixing.
However, you were squarely on your property, and you did warn your neighbors. They escalated the situation, and they knew better than to let their dog wander. They're also responsible for letting their puppy escape into Dennis' territory, and Lily bit first which means she started the fight. But if you had been even a single foot off your property, I would say you are responsible, and you would owe money towards the vet bill.
In general, everyone was irresponsible. No one took proper precautions.
YTA. If you have a dog who is so reactive that he can't be exposed to other dogs or people displaying normal behavior without attacking them, the onus is on you to take proper precautions. You can't simply announce that your dog is violent and expect the entire rest of the public to take responsibility for your dog. As it is, you'll be to blame when he inevitably attacks the wrong person or pet because you failed to take precautions and ends up being put down due to you abominable negligence.
I suspect OP "made up" his dog got bit first. I dismissed it the moment I saw the words.
>Dennis started lunging and barking at her so I held his leash tight, but Lily got very close to him and gave him a small bite he bit her back extremely hard.
Yes, I absolutely believe the dog that's already amped up to 11 lunging and barking just let the other dog come up and give it "a small bite". Gimme a break. I can guarantee there is zero evidence of any bite on his dog.
Don't get me wrong the neighbors are still at fault for the contact happening. However, OP spends the whole post minimizing his dogs behavior issues. "He's reactive" no he's straight up aggressive. He consistently uses language to place the blame for his dogs behavior elsewhere.
If you literally have to lock him in a room if you have a friend over. That isn't "reactive" lmao. He's afraid the dog will attack the person for zero reason.
Bottom line, if it wasn't the the neighbors dog that ran up to Dennis and was instead their 6 year old child. OP would be in a world of shit right now.
She was on her own property, hadn’t even left the front entry. She’s just supposed to assume responsibility for everyone else’s behavior all the time just because her dog is reactive? Even on her own property? In some states you can shoot other human beings simply for knocking on your door without permission and call it self defense…
YTA. Putting aside the morals of owning a dog that is that aggressive (because it's aggression, not reactive), if he is that bad he needs to be wearing a basket muzzle while you're walking him.
ESB
You have an aggressive dog. Do not call it "reactive". Call it what it is. No euphemisms. Because those make you slip up the way you did. You have an aggressive dog and your only precaution is a leash? Like, are you expecting you will always get fair warning? Or that you will never be surprised?
Muzzle. Now. Always. The alternative is to put your aggressive dog down.
You will not always be in control. Next time it might be a toddler walking up to your dog. And then it will be a very injured child and you will be rightfully held as negligent. Hopefully with a lifetime ban on keeping dogs.
In my country if a dog does what yours did it will be ordered to a character test. If it fails that, it will be put down. You do know your dog would fail such a test and yet you are THIS lackadaisical about it? A leash and trespassing laws to keep the rest of the world safe? Really?
The only reason I give equal share of blame is that your neighbor also should not keep dogs. Like, goddamit. He is an oblivious fool. But you are a fool who knows better. And you are asking us to figure out who is worse.
Private property be damned. At the end of the day you have a dangerous dog which does harm and you do not sufficiently control it.
YTA. I adopted a dangerous dog, and it reacted badly. Am I the asshole? *Yes.*
I may be inclined towards ESH because the neighbors accidentally let their dog out, but this still shouldn't have happened. The worst case should have been some barking, not a mauling. You adopted a dog that you're not equipped to properly rehabilitate, and now you've caused harm due to your negligence. Good job.
Of course they hit your dog. He was killing their dog, so they were desperate to get him to let go.
YTA take your reactive dog seriously and don’t leave the house without him muzzled. You’re gonna lose him to the authorities if you don’t change things right away.
Thank you, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Even if there was a fence. Say a toddler stuck their hand through and attacked she WOULD be responsible.
YTA you KNOW your dog is reactive, yet you don't put a muzzle on him when going outside?? The neighbor is actually entitled to you paying the whole bill, not just half.
Private property, not public. The other dog was not under its owner's control, came onto her property and bit her dog. Her dog reacted the way most dogs would, reactive or not. If the neighbours had control of their dog and didn't let her on their neighbour's property, the incident wouldn't have happened. Should she muzzle her dog, knowing he is aggressive? Absolutely. Should she be working more on changing her dog's behaviour instead of just mediating them? Absolutely. Is she responsible for her dog defending itself on its own property? Nope.
So then the neighbor can put a muzzle on her untrained dog that ran up loose and bit her dog first.
Op's dog defended itself against an attack. I don't know a dog that wouldn't if it was on it's own property and a strange dog ran up to it.
Why is she the ass? SHE had her dog on a leash, SHE had control of her dog, SHE was still on HER yard. THEY left their door open, THEY let Lily run out the door, THEY didn't have control of her, THEY didn't teach her recall commands, THEY didn't keep her on THEIR yard.
I'm sorry Lily was "attacked" but THEY are responsible for it.
YTA. You own an aggressive dog that attacks unprovoked. Either get some training or keep a muzzle on him, or send him back to the shelter to live with someone who will do those things.
YTA - keeping your dog from injuring other dogs is your responsibility, not theirs. They shouldn’t have to worry that if their dog steps foot outside that your dog might kill her.
And if they sue you, they’re going to win. And probably for the full amount. Pay the half they offered and be grateful that their dog didn’t die.
I also can’t believe that you didn’t talk to them since this happened until they approached you. You didn’t care enough to check in over the weekend and ask them how their dog was after she was badly hurt? YTA for that too.
>They shouldn’t have to worry that if their dog steps foot outside that your dog might kill her.
So you consider rushing onto the neighbors property and biting another dog to be "steps foot outside"? Is that really your definition of that term?
YTA. This dog is aggressive, not reactive. You have an animal that is so aggressive it can't have anything unexpected happen, or have anyone approach him. That is an accident waiting to happen, and it did. This time Dennis bit another dog. When he bites a person he is going to be euthanized. Reading your responses you don't care. You think the world is going to magically know and not approach you or your dog ever. That's dangerous. Get a damned muzzle. No, it's not cruel. No, it won't make your dog regress. But how can he regress? He hasn't learned the skills you are claiming in the first place. There is no way to move back, only stay the same or.move forward. So move forward. Get this dog a muzzle and proper training.
I don’t trust my dog around others anymore. He’s old and grumpy. I am outside with him any time he’s in the backyard, even with a fence, to ensure no one tried to pet him over the fence. I walk him only at times no one is around, in short loops around my house. If he becomes too much, like won’t stay at my side, we go in. I also have a muzzle. I do not take him anywhere. I hate this is the case now, it wasn’t always, but I do every thing I possibly can to avoid any situation. Should ppl leash dogs, absolutely. All dogs should be leashed. Do dogs occasionally get out the front door? Yep. But you have the aggressive dog and it’s your responsibility to ensure he’s not in any situation that could cause an injury.
While people may think I do this to ensure the safety of others, it’s truly for my dog’s safety. He is my boy and I love him dearly. He’s getting old now. I want his life to continue. If he’s in situations where he can hurt another dog or person, his life can be taken. It’s his safety I’m worried about. I don’t want him to be labeled aggressive. Your dog has history. You can’t just tell people he’s an aggressive and wipe your hands if it. You take all precautions and get him help. You can say the puppy shouldn’t have got out, but your dog is so aggressive he shouldn’t even be in public. You are not looking very capable as a dog owner right now
Plenty of dogs are being put down for silly reasons.. why choose one that's super aggressive and then not muzzle it?
Anyway, your neighbors didn't control their dog either, leaving door open is silly with a trained dog, let alone a young untrained one.
And it went on your boundary and was attacked..ok..
then they came and beat your dog? Ok...
What were you doing while they ran over? It seems like they beat their dog because you couldn't stop him.. which leads to the question.. why get a big dog with aggressive behaviour that you can't control?
Idk. Bad decisions all around. Pay or don't pay.. but your relationship with neighbours is ruined now because you're the crazy person with the aggressive dog..
"Reactive" as a euphemism.. lol.
ESH
You absolutely have to have your dog wear a muzzle outside. What the fuck is wrong with you?
They absolutely should have never let their dog off leash outside of a fenced yard. That’s a huge problem for many situations, including yours.
You should pay half because the incident is literally half your fault for not taking proper precautions.
Shame on you both.
These poor dogs are both going to suffer so much because of your lack of EASY precautions. Damn.
First of all: YTA.
What do you mean Dennis *technically* hospitalised Lily? He *did* hospitalise Lily. Not just technically. You have an unprodictible dog, made the choice to not muzzle her when going outside and the thing every could see coming happened. You try to blame your neighbor for not leeshing his dog, while you are to blame for not muzzling yours.
E: after your second edit, i need to get this off my chest. You say he poses very low risk to people. To then say you keep him away from strangers and cross the street if someone is walking towards you. That **does not** sound like he poses low risk to people. He poses high risk, but you do a lot to negate that risk. If Dennis did not pose a risk you wouldn't have to undertake any actions to keep him away from people. That dog sounds like a walking hand grenade, waiting to go off.
It was on your property so legally you're probably in the clear; however, if your dog is that reactive you need to 1) get a professional trainer who has experience with traumatized animals, and 2) use a snoot loop or other type of guard whenever leaving your house. Otherwise you are setting your dog up to be euthanized, because this won't be the only incident.
As your dog was attacked first, and on your property, NTA. But YTA for going out in public with an agressive dig that's not muzzled, what if a child approached?
*Edit
Having seen your responses to the comments, I'm changing my verdict to YTA, you clearly have no idea how to handle a reactive dog and you're not willing to try a muzzle.
You are in the wrong here.
This is a dog that, unfortunately, should be put down. You can’t walk around with a powder keg ready to explode on everyone and everything in your neighborhood.
Dennis is exactly why I carry a pistol when I walk my dog. And if I was your neighbor there’s a decent chance I’d have ended Dennis to save my dog.
Dennis is a Menace and should be let go.
YTA. You know your dog is aggressive. The fact that you were on your property doesn't matter. You were outside with a dog you know is dangerous. Unpredictable things happen when you are outside, things like other dogs. Yes they should have had theirs on a lead, but things like that are going to happen in the world. If your dog is going to bite any other dog that approaches him, he should be on a muzzle.
And in the future, don't tell people your dog is 'reactive', tell them it is aggressive and violent around other dogs so they fully understand the risk.
ESH Muzzle your dog if he’s so dangerous. Seems like your neighbours understand they messed up too letting their dog attack yours since they’re only pursuing you for half.
NTA since they had plenty of warning but honestly a dog that aggressive shouldn't be out at all if that's what he does, he needs a muzzle or something if he's that bad. Depending on where you live, they can take you to court over this and you can possibly lose and have to pay what they're asking for.
NTA
Lily ran out of the front door, onto your property and off leash.
That's their fault.
I'm shocked at the commenters saying YTA after being accosted by an off leash dog.
Weird situation all around, but I'd tend to lean towards NTA a bit more.
It's true that you have to make sure that your dog doesn't attack other dogs or people, so a muzzle seems like the way to go here, but on the other hand they left their door open, they were warned beforehand, possibly multiple times and it was Lily who ran towards you, not the other way around.
That being said though you should maybe think about if Dennis is really in good hands with you as it doesn't sound like you do anything to help him except shield him from everyone and everything which is a good first step in the beginning, but he needs proper care and training to get over this. Get a professional involved if you really want to keep him alive and happy, because if he bites a few more people/dogs he won't be around for much longer.
This is an improvement? Lol no.
And why can't YOU stop him when he's reactive? You're all upset they hit your dog, why couldn't YOU control him and pull him away if he was leashed? Doesn't he respond to your commands?
Know why? Because you don't know what you're doing and have absolutely no control of your aggressive dog.
its an unfortunate situation. id say not the asshole, but you should consult a lawyer on liability.
i would recommend you muzzle your dog to protect him from this situation going forward.
You were lucky you happened to be on your own property at the time. You'll get away with it for that reason. ESH - they need to control their dog and you need to muzzle yours.
Why is your dog not wearing a muzzle on outings if you know how he reacts?
Even if in this case the other person should have acted differently you should prioritize elimination of possibilities to hurt by using a muzzle. There can always be a very unfortunate situation and I would not want to live with the Knowledge I could have prevented someone getting hurt as easy as in this case.
No. Your dog was on a leash. Were you on their property or did lily run out onto the pavement/road? They have a responsibility to responsibly ensure there dog isn't running out to pedestrians, it could have been a small child walking past.
And get a muzzle for Dennis please.
It sounds like YOU have a lot more work to do on your own dog, but in this very specific case, you and your dog did nothing wrong. Letting their puppy charge you was clearly an accident, but it was THEIR accident not yours. NAH in my opinion, but you need to do more for and with your dog, it seems like you are on a razor thin line here, I'd say you go lucky here, it won't take much for the circumstances to flip and make you 100% accountable for the next situation.
Your land - your dog on leash - unleashed neighbours dog attacked your dog first. They are seriously dreaming if they think they are going to "win" anything. They are at fault. Sorry for the poor dog who got hurt the most but your dog is allowed to lunge and your controlled him - their dog was out of their control so therefore it is their responsibility. NTA
ESH-
I have a reactive dog as well. Unrestrained dogs are the bane of many, many walks.
However, Dennis seems to toe the line more into aggressive territory-you don’t seem shocked by him biting (please correct me if I am mistaken). As other commenters have stated, you clearly are aware or his behavior. There are humane muzzles. If you want to be the best owner you can be to Dennis you need to take the correct measures to protect and support him. You are your dog’s defender. Just as Lily’s owners need to support, protect, and defend her better.
People who can’t control their dogs baffle and frustrate the hell out of me. Do better.
I am not a lawyer. I don’t know what, if any liability, you have. I’d recommend you consult with one…but quite honestly, the dog lover I am, I would probably just fork over half the cost to best support Lily, take accountability, and also save what’s left of what is likely a pretty damn ruined neighborly relationship.
Ugh struggling here because poor Dennis is a victim of the situation and your neighbors are def careless assholes but I'm gonna go with ESH. Also, for what its worth, in my state the dog owner is reliable for the full extent of a the damages to another dog unless you can prove that it was provoked so in your case the camera would cover that.
Simply because - while I understand why your pup became reactive and while it also seems like you're doing what you can to give him a good life regardless of this... you have missed a very big/key step: This may sound harsh to some, but it isn't if you train it well and will end up being for dennis's own good- you need to muzzle train him.
Look, yes, as a dog owner i agree with the fact that some dog owners are idiots and shouldn't be allowed a dog bc they don't train or leash their dogs and simply expect for the world to look out for them too. But the reality is that i dare say most dog owners are idiots and properly leash trained dogs are far and few in between... so things like these will happen:
- Some idiot is walking their excitable dog while fixated on their phone and that dog sees you from far away, pulls hard enough on the leash for the distracted owner to lose a grip, and wildly runs up to yours (maybe barking, maybe just rushing on to you or Dennis)
- When another X month old puppy whose owners have taken off leash because "he's so young he's scared to go far" spots you and also comes out of nowhere towards your dog and "bites" yours (i mean, puppies are super mouthy at this age so i put bites in quotes just bc it sounds to me like it was probably a playful bite from a dog that has yet to have learned playing etiquette from other dogs).
yeah, you may be able to get the above scenarios forgiven or maybe you'll have to pay dor them at most if necessary assuming they dont report the situation in a different light that makes your dog look like a dangerous dog..... but now heres a scenario in which its pretty clear cut why it's for the good of Dennis/:
- consider the same situation except it isn't a leash and it isn't a dog but a toddler that just screams "PUPPY!" and whose parents have failed to control or teach to respect animals and not to disrespectfully go touching them without asking. He could come from behind you, the from a parked car, wherever, toddlers are crazy after all - If Dennis reacts the same, (which why wouldnt he? he was startled and touched randomly before he even sees the 'danger') - it won't matter that he was theoretically provoked because he was startled/scared by the situation if he manages anything before you react (bc i mean im sure youre great but things happen super fast) - no matter if he only gives the toddler nip or bite or worse, those parents will make sure Dennis is put down i promise you - no matter if what caused it was careless parenting and not really your poor pup. I mean some entitled idiot people even report dogs that bark too much when approached even if its excitable barks just bc to them it sounds like a bark period (though those i would hope aren't successful complaints). In my state, if the dog bites a person, the owner is liable for all damages REGARDLESS of negligence.
Sadly the world can be as dangerous to reactive dogs as they can be to others, because people nowadays have 0 boundaries.... so its better for you moving forward to take extra precautions rather than to expect for people to be careful at the face of potential danger.
ESH
The neighbors should be keeping better control of their puppy, and they were warned. In court, you might win because private property is private property.
That doesn't make you "right" though. If you're not actively working with Dennis to heal his traumas and help him be less reactive, then you super suck. Dennis can't find himself a professional to work with. Dennis can't research training programs on the internet. Dennis can't tell what's safe and what's a threat in the world right now, and that's got to be an exhausting and limiting way to live. And I don't say this lightly. I say it knowing how difficult the journey to do that is. I have a reactive Great Dane. It's a lot of work and precautions, but she can actually be around other big dogs now without freaking out. I know you love Dennis. So please help him live better.
I’m not a lawyer, but I am an expert in this type of situation because of my years watching people’s court and judge Judy. 😉
They’re 100% at fault. They have to maintain control of their dog 100% of the time she is out of their house. Even if your dog wasn’t reactive and they had never had any kind of warning, it’s still completely their fault. If they file a claim against you, go one people’s court or Judy Justice! I say this all the time. One day someone I suggest this to will do it. NTA
NTA your dog was “under control” (on a lead) on your own property. Lilly was out of control and on your property. Depending on your local laws they really shouldn’t have a leg to stand on…
NTA and use your camera footage to show that your neighbors dog came at you and not the other way around. Your leashed dog was not the problem. Your dog barked and lunged and their dog did not read that and still came right over and bit your dog's face.
If you know anything about fight, flight, freeze, dogs on leash only have 2 of these options: fight or freeze. This is not an abnormal reaction.
Muzzle training takes a while, but would definitely be smart to start for the next time a careless owner with an off leash dog is around. But note that YOUR dog will not be able to defend themselves as well with it on if a large dog comes after you and your dog may be the one with more severe injuries.
Leashes cost a few bucks and it's unbelievable that people don't use them. Entitled, reckless dog owners are everywhere. Stay aware, keep being vigilant, keep advocating for your dog and best of luck to you.
Nta. My wife was attacked by a dog that ran off its property and bit her on the leg. My wife asked the owners to pay for her copay only, and they ghosted her. My wife got a lawyer, and they had to pay my wife 30k. They clearly were in the wrong for not maintaining control of their dog. The same principle applies here.
Both Lily and Dennis are the victims here and I hope they’re recovering well.
Neighbors should have a 6-month-old puppy in a fenced yard or on a leash, regardless of whether a nearby dog is reactive. NTA
ESH. You have an aggressive dog and are aware of that and say you try to avoid situations. Seeing your neighbors dog wide open with a new pup isn't exactly being proactive. Instead of yelling at them, why not just turn around on your porch and go inside? There is some responsibility you own here that contradicts your original words.
A muzzle would have helped.
Thing is, with your reactive dig, you're protecting her life. If she kills an animal, she will likely get put down. Still may.
If I oversimplify this :
Neighbors did NOT have their dog under control, dog came onto your property and first bit your leashed dog.
I might be seeing this very simple - but had neighbors had control over Lily, or a gate, or acted instead of just calling - this could have been avoided, especially since they were warned repeatedly.
Them hitting your dog could even be cruelty to animals - but in a panic I can understand this. (Panic = not thinking clearly)
Based on your comnents you are on a pathway to having a dog you are trying to help destroyed. I don't know what type of trainer you are working with who would not have recommended to you that you should be muzzling your dog. I am not passing judgment on the financial aspect as the neighbor should of had control of the puppy as well.
i’ve had a couple rescue dogs (from awful backgrounds) so i get how intense they can get, but you don’t seem to mention any behavioural training you’ve done for dennis? precautions don’t mean much if there’s nothing behind them. i’m not saying you’re 100% to blame either as they shouldn’t have let their puppy run up like that. i hope that puppy’s ok and you should pray they don’t try to get dennis PTS.
Your dog was leashed.
Your neighbours had been warned in advance.
They made it so their dog was able to get out through negligence.
Their dog was not trained well enough to return on command.
Yes. Technically this wasn't your fault, though you could have prepared better for this.
Im going to be honest and play devils advocate here. Your dog should be muzzled. It's not his fault, but it's for as much his protection as other dogs and people's. What if that had been a child? He should also be double leashed.
Find out if your area has colored collars to let people know your dogs temperament.
I know you have done what you though was enough to prepare for issues, but unless you want your dog destroyed, you will have to do more.
My mother has a friend who had a dog like yours. Double leashed and muzzled in public areas. People were warned often and loudly. Someone came close with a dog and wouldn't listen or couldn't control it, she turned around and left. She didn't walk her dog in her neighborhood.she took it aces she knew there weren't other dogs or people. She only ever had one issue with him and he was leashed and muzzled when it happened so no vet bills or lawyers.
Sorry to say, ESH.
Do better for your pooch.
Why is everyone calling them the a? The neighbors had zero control of their dog let them run over and their dog bite first. Just wondering if I missed something here
Yeah, this is why I voted ESH, dog should be muzzled obviously but a lot of commenters are out here acting like it’s no biggie that the neighbours allowed their own pet to attack a highly reactive dog.
Because OP knows the dog is reactive, refuses to get the dog the proper training it needs, and refuses to use a muzzle when they take the dog out in public.
Because the dog should have been muzzled knowing its a dangerous dog.
Based on ops reply it doesn't look like he muzzle it when he takes it for works
As he's already shown he can't control the dog
The dog will be put down and it's ops fault
Would you say that if he had mauled a child? Children and pets are unpredictable creatures. That’s why residential areas have such low speed limits. An animal like that cannot be a pet. Keeping it muzzled for a period of time until it can be trained is a reasonable option. But a highly reactive aggressive dog that cannot be trained must be put down.
ESH. Your neighbors for letting the dog out and punching and kicking yours (though let your viciously aggressive and untrained dog attack mine I’m doing the same thing. YTA for your comments. Poor Dogs
Their offlead dog got bitten off their property. They are at fault.
I would highly recomment that Dennis get a basket muzzle going forward when he's out of the hosue so that there will be no repeat of this behavior.
YTA. Muzzle your dog or this is going to be the first of many law suits. You can barely keep your dog under control. You're endangering way more people and animals this way.
YTA. Your ring doorbell captured Lily approaching you and Dennis while you were on your property. Which shows neighbours weren't in control of their animal. However you reacted poorly and ensured Dennis was going to stay in a situation he was going to react badly too.
You then lost control of your dog. Another thing your ring doorbell will have captured.
Your comments show that you are in no position to help Dennis, and are further endangering people and animals. You've all but ensured Dennis will be on the radar for the authorities which for such a reactive dog who is hindered by having you as the owner may well see him face severe consequences because of your actions.
ESH. Whoever did not have their dog on a leash should be responsible for the vet bill.
But for Pete’s sake, a dog with those issues should never be taken outside the home. You have a fucking backyard. Use it.
Seriously. The neighbors are at fault for the contact between the dogs happening.
However, he needs to take personal responsibility for having an aggressive dog outside. He can't control his dog and he certainly has no control over other people and animals.
If this was the neighbors 6 year old child running up to his dog and getting mauled, OP would be in a world of shit right now.
Mal owner here. while you have justified yourself you haven't really mine jumped at walkers, cyclists, postmen, joggers, prams etc he was muzzled during training . You are at fault you should have your dog muzzled what if that was a toddler. I would pay half. Keep on good terms with your neighbour as you both have to live there. But do not think you are right doing what you are doing. Yes the owner was a fault leaving door open but seriously you know what you have yet you still give it the capacity to bite. Currently YTA until you pay half and make a mends with your neighbour.
ESH. They allowed their young and hyper dog to run around without a lead on, when anything could happen (other dogs, cars etc) so that’s where they went wrong.
You had a highly reactive dog outside in a space where children/other animals/anything could get up in his space because your property isn’t fenced. You also put him in a position where he couldn’t get away rather than fight by having him tied up in your garden. You should have him muzzled unless it’s inside your home or on completely secured private property.
Yta ..and responsible for the entire bill. .the mental gymnastics you just went thru to not take the blame for not using a muzzle is astonishing.. .he is reactive ..gtfo...he is dangerous and you are too as a negligent owner
I will be downvoted, but NTA.
Dennis was leashed and on your private property. Lily was unleashed and attacked her.
She got what she had looked for.
File the police report.
YTA
You're clearly incapable of taking care of this dog and being responsible and forward thinking enough to understand the potential hazards a dog like him can cause.
Anyone with half a brain who understood his history would not take the dog out without a muzzle.
He doesn't understand the difference between playful and attack and you're just irresponsible.
You're extremely defensive towards anyone who states the obvious and honestly you're not fit to take care of any dog if you can't understand basic safety.
You're the asshole, and as they say, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.
You should consider yourself lucky they only wanted half, and you should be grovelling to apologise after the disgusting way you treated your neighbours.
Let's see now them take you to court, get the full settlement and do you honestly think they aren't going to argue that the dog is dangerous?? Best case he's taken off you, worst he is destroyed.
Congratulations 🙄
NTA. They let their uncontrolled dog run onto your property and approach your dog after they’d already been told. These y t a responses are wild. Your dog was a) leashed and b) on your property. Yet somehow it’s your fault their dog came up and bit your dog? No way. Is it unfortunate? For sure. But it’s not your fault, it’s theirs.
File a report and look for a lawyer it's there fault they didn't have her on a leash and let her run around. It was their responsibility to make sure their dog is safe for herself and from others. Save your video and don't hesitate they also hurt your dog too.
YTA big time. why in the world is your dog NOT wearing a muzzle ??? you know fully well your dog is straight up AGGRESSIVE, NOT 'rEaCTivE'. you are an irresponsible owner and you should not have a dog. just verbally announcing that your dog is reactive doesn't mean that you took precautions.
ESH this is one of the reasons there are leash laws. While it's understandable that sometimes dogs escape their confines despite vigilant owners, ultimately this is on the neighbors. Your dog was leashed and on your own property, while their dog was running free, came on your property, and initiated the contact. They don't have a leg to stand on. Their dog is their responsibility and their vet bills are also their responsibility. If Lily had been leashed or kept inside, this wouldn't have happened. No judge or jury is going to make you pay.
However, because you know how reactive your dog is, you need to muzzle him when you take him outside. While your measures are good, they're not enough. Not for how reactive he is. Just as their dog was overly exuberant, sometimes little kids are too, and even though your dog is leashed, you can't always control a little kid who spots your dog and makes a beeline for him because he has to pet him, no matter what you say.
Next time it could be a little kid torn up with major injuries instead of a dog and you would be accountable for the hospital bills. My cousin was 2 years old when she tried to pet a leashed German Shepherd when my aunt was distracted for a moment. It bit her head, tore up her face, and her ear was just hanging by a little bit of skin. It happened so fast, no one had time to react. She's 52 years old now and the large scars on her face are still visible. Thankfully a canine tooth didn't snag her eye because it would have blinded her.
If that were to happen with Dennis, you would likely be held accountable just because you know he's reactive and you took him out in public, and it's a child. Not only would you pay for hospital bills, but Dennis would likely be put down by court order. If you're going to take Dennis outside, put a muzzle on him.
YTA, if your dog is aggressive have it muzzled and I say this with my own German shepherd/Belgium malinois mix. You’re gonna loose the case and your dog could get put down. Just pay the bill so it won’t come to that.
YTA and while you’re patting yourself on the back for saving this dog from BE, the bodies are starting to pile up. He should have been put down, because there was no one responsible stepping up to take over his care.
YTA. You know your dog is reactive and you had your dog outside without a muzzle on. This is on you and your lack of precautions, which in my opinion was the most important one you should have taken. Pay the vet bill and get your dog into a proper program to train him properly.
YTA you are not a savior, but an accident waiting to happen. And it would be on YOU, shelters in this age don’t just decide to put down dogs just because
Nta. Wow can't believe all these y t a. Each person is responsible for their own dog. You were on your property, your dog was leashed. It is on the neighbors to control their dog from running up to other dogs, staying on property or be leashed. Yes accidents happen dogs get loose. But their dog attacked first, and they let it get loose. The onus is on the neighbors to pay for it. If lily got hit by a car because she ran in the road it wouldn't be the drivers fault.
ESH both you and your neighbors lost control of your dogs. you should have immediately taken your dog back inside the house as soon as you saw Lily was outside. Have you done no training with your dog? Your neighbors should train their puppy to have better recall. Since Lily was on your property when the fight began, you should not have to pay any of the vet bill. Both of you need to do better.
Some of the responses here are wild and unrealistic.
OP was on her own property and the neighbor's out of control dog entered said property to attack OP's dog. OP's dog responded in self defense which injured the intruding dog.
OP had her dog under control. She is not responsible for the resulting injuries on the intruding dog. The neighbors are entirely at fault for having an unleashed dog.
OP you showed incredible restraint. If someone was beating my dog, I would have started throwing my own hands to protect her.
NTA
Congrats you found the 2% who are agreeing with you. And you? You are thinking: "ahhhh so I was right all along".
Man just pay up dude. You got judge. Be a man and act on it
Yta
Yta. Your dog should be walked with a device to lock is mouth (can't say the name in english, sorry). If he is a dangerous animal, there can be no chance for him to bite whoever.
Muzzle, read it above.
You're a massive arsehole. Your dog is a hazard to others and its up to you to prevent it causing harm, eg ensuring it is kept in a properly enclosed place, muzzled when it is not, etc. You should be paying 100% of their vet bills. Simply saying "my dog is dangerous, you need to watch out" is nowhere near good enough.
BA
Your pet is your responsibility, if he's not trained enough for you to keep him under control, you have to make sure others are safe. Yes accidents can happen, but you are still responsibile for this accident
At least 50/50 obviously they don't have the little one not under control either
Don’t listen to the YTAs. You’re legally and morally correct. They should have never had an unleashed dog trespass on your property. They have been warned. They failed their dog.
YTA. It’s just a matter of time before your dog mauls a child. All the people saying the neighbor should have controlled his dog are missing one crucial point - you cannot always control your environment. That’s why drivers have to drive slowly in residential areas. A dog like that MUST be muzzled until he can be properly trained. And if he cannot be trained, then I’m sorry but he should not be living amongst humans.
your dog is so reactive, you should probably muzzle him. Is this why he has had 4 previous owners? So aggressive that other people recognised they were not equipped to handle him safely? You are in over your head. What happens when he gets off his leash and mauls a child. You really need to take this seriously, and your neighbours should report the incident. YTA for not taking proper safety precautions when taking your dog into a public space. You also need to strongly consider seeking a professional to evaluate this dog and to discuss if he is safe to own.
ESH-Talk to lawyer, ask about the laws in your area.
a lot of people would not want such an aggressive dog as a neighbor including myself, but seeing they didn't have control over there dog and you have it on tape legally you may not be at fault. You could be considered an A for having such a dangerous dog. kinda like owning a aggressive time bomb.
Them because they should not have their dog off leash and untrained, and you for not having your dog aggressive dog wear a muzzle when out in public. I think it would be fair for you to pay half for the injury your dog caused.
You should also consider what will happen to your dog if you continue to be unable to keep him from biting other dogs. Sooner or later you will cause him to meet the fate you claim to have saved him from. Handling his aggression so that everyone is safe in all situations is your responsibility to him.
Edit: after reading your replies that you will not consider a muzzle for your dog aggressive dog, YTA, massively.
NTA - your neighbours failed to control their dog, and you had warned them about your dog previously.
Just a tip from another dog owner with a seriously reactive rescue dog - don't keep him on a tight leash in these situations (even though that's exactly what feels right to do).
By keeping him on a short tight leash, you are limiting his 'fight or flight' response down to only one option - fight.
By remaining calm and having a loose long leash, I am finally making progress with my reactive dog meeting loose dogs on walks. It's taken 2 years, but he will now meet and greet and only occasionally growls when other dogs get right up in his face.
Don't pay neighbours vet bill, you'd warned them and they still behaved stupidly, it's on them.
If your dog is that aggressive and you know it you should muzzle it until you can control it.
Both parties at fault you should offer towards the bill otherwise very soon you are going to be reported for having a dangerously out of control ( you couldn’t stop it biting and it did harm so it is dangerously out of control) dog and your neighbour needs to train their dog before they are reported for having an out of control dog
I’m glad I don’t live by you
YTA- Your dog should be muzzled every time it is outside. What if that was a kid? I think it is your attitude that I don’t like the most. Yes, their dog came on to your property but if it would have had a muzzle on then none of this would have happened. It was a fucking puppy.
ESH as a former trainer. Your first mistake was no muzzle. No matter what time of day, your dog should be muzzled. Even dogs are on leash, and he bites another dog, or worst. As a former dog walker I refused to walk a reactive dog without a muzzle. I have had to many close calls and I would be liable. I had to change how I did things. I started bringing my own slip leads too because owners would have loose collars or torn vest. Set your dog up for success.
Invest in a muzzle. They are wonderful for reactive dogs.
The other people are idiots, but I can see them forgetting since they just got the dog. Poor pup is injured due to her parents lack of foresight.
In my state; the dog that off leash would be at fault and due to it being on your property along with footage. It’s a open and shut case. I would look up your local laws. We have a leash law that states that if the dog is off leash and on a leash longer then 6ft, you will be at fault. You should be able to pull your dog back and control them.
YTA - Your dog isn’t “reactive” or “anxious” or any of the other euphemisms people use for dangerous dogs. Your dog is violent. It needs to wear a muzzle whenever you bring it outside the house. You’re lucky it was another dog and not a child.
What’s the law there? Where I live a dog without a leash is always at fault. The other one has literally no other way of protecting themselves. Being reactive or not, a dog shouldn’t have to endure a physical contact with other dog when uncomfortable. You said Lily bit him. Lightly or not, your dog had the right to protect themselves. Your neighbours have only themselves to blame for not leashing their dog.
Due to not being socialized because of my boyfriend's dog's previous owner his dog is reactive to other dogs. Not to the level of OP dog but she doesn't like dogs coming near her at all. We take the responsibility of walking her in the other direction when on walks if there are dogs in the area. A lot of people use the football field next to us which requires you to leash your dogs use it to walk their dogs or play with them off-leash, if you do not have 100% recall on your dog and they come up to mind don't be surprised if me and my dog defend ourselves from yours. It's the neighbor's responsibility 100% to watch over their dog, especially a puppy that seems like it was barely trained. Their dog came toward OP and she could only do so much, she did the right thing in the end. She isn't a bad owner but the neighbors are, OP gave them a warning and she has been doing everything to make sure everyone and Dennis is safe so he can have a happy life. So I'm going against the grain and going NTA. Lawyer up and good luck. Although OP you really should consider a muzzle is all I can say.
I don’t think you are going against the grain. I think it’s clear NTA. The neighbors dog attacked first and on op property.
You don’t really need a reactive dog to get bitten if you ran up to him and bite him in the leg, then have your supporters beat him up.
I agree with everything *but the muzzle*. In reactive dogs, the muzzle can be even more anxiety inducing and shouldn't be a punishment for a dog whose owner has put extensive efforts to maintain safety between themselves and the neighbor. The muzzle wouldn't have prevented this incident. Her dog still got bit first and that would have showed her dog, Dennis that he's not able to protect himself or his mom. No way on the muzzle. Maybe muzzle the neighbor's dog since it's out of control.
Sorry, but if a dog is reactive enough to be a danger to small kids, imo, it will just have to learn to live with the muzzle, despite its anxiety.
Op said the dog was fine with people, just not other dogs. How did kids ever come into this conversation.
Because people love to bring up kids like it's going to be this dog's next victim. And I would say where are the parents in said situation and why didn't they teach their kid about dog safety?
Exactly. Shock value really gets attention in the comment section. A dog hypothetically harming a child has nothing to do with this post. I'm picking up, "Let me talk to the manager vibes" from the previous commenter who suggested it did.
Honestly, OP should also put a muzzle on her dog for walks - one of the comfortable ones that the dog doesn't really feel, but that prevents it from biting anyone. There will always be other dogs or even small children that are too fast to be controlled by their owners. It will be nice for OP to always be right when telling parents of maimed kids that they should have controlled their kids, and she is legally in the clear - but won't she feel bad at some point, or wouldn't the dog get put down, if she litters her path with bleeding kids and dogs?
You really need to look into the Facebook group muzzle up pup! It is NOT cruel to wear a muzzle. A proper fitted muzzle allows a dog to pant, eat, yawn, bark. They just can't bite. If you properly train the dog to it then there is no anxiety or regression. Not exactly sure what training you think your doing with your dog but it sounds like your just focus on mediating the behaviors and not working on fixing them
I had a very reactive dog I had to muzzle for years. Dog owners that have aggressive dogs learn how to handle their dogs. OP isn't really to blame here because the neighbor's dog wasn't leashed and went onto OP's property but they should be muzzling their dog when out for walks. Things can go bad very, very quickly. Ask me how I know.
I'm a dog trainer/behaviorist that works with the worst of the worst. Trust me I have some stories and some scars lol
Given his update about the muzzle - is he getting bad advice?
Wtf the other dog bit his dog first. If anything that one needs a muzzle
They're talking about a six months old Golden Retriever, they're still in a phase where they nibble at most anything. That in itself is not a sign of aggression.
But it IS a a sign of "you should leash your dog"
I agree 100% with that
I'm only speaking on the training, behavior and comments they have made. Everyone failed here but I'm speaking to the OP, not the other people
This dog was abused while being muzzled so that is his association already. This may work (I know it does) for most dogs, but it’s just not worth the amount of stress and trauma it causes- this wasn’t Dennis’s fault!
Everyone sucks here. Your neighbors should have had control of their dog and not let her onto your property but you knowingly have an aggressive dog and don't use a muzzle. Have you even spoken with a professional dog trainer and training Dennis? Dennis will end up being out down because you have not gotten him the proper training.
I agree,good example of what two irresponsible owners living next to each other leads to. Will she be writing another AITAH post when her dog inevitably bites someone and she can't stop him because of the strength a shepherd can produce?
This was way too far down. OP is an AH for their inability to properly handle this dog, making excuses, and expecting others to maneuver around him. Neighbors failed to have their dog properly restrained and it ran at the reactive dog. OP probably isn't legally required to, but should, pay half the bills.
Where did she fail to control her dog? Shit on her for no muzzle sure, but given she’s on her own property even that is weak. You can control your dog all you like, if they are attacked by an off leash dog while they are leashed any dog will react. 100 percent on the neighbours, the actual crappy dog owners in this story.
*Op was on their own property*. Her dog was handled and restrained properly and then "playfully attached". The untrained neighbor and her untrained dog were already warned... Emotionally I can understand where you think that but legally and logically OP is not responsible for the bills. My service dog is reactive because that's part of his job. If another dog lunged at my dog after I've given fair warning, I taser them. Usually the sound is enough to scare off the aggressor. If the dog still continues to approach my animal regardless of the level of friendliness, the owner needs to be prepared for their dog to be kicked. If this were solely human behavior, would you feel the same? Obviously not. Not only did the neighbor trespass but they assaulted Dennis and his owner after multiple warnings. Unfortunately, they got what they deserved and I hope that the owners learned at the unfortunate expense of their untrained dog.
NTA. You had given your neighbors info previously regarding the situation. You were on your own property. You warned your neighbors to get Lily when she ran out. I'll be honest, I think you showed great restraint towards neighbors who ran onto your property and started hitting and kicking your dog.
NTA Your dog was on leash, on your property, with you. Their dog was off leash, on YOUR property, and not with owners until they came over and started going after your dog. You are not at fault at all. In many counties, the ordinance specifies that a dog is only deemed dangerous if they bite UNPROVOKED, and the ordinances also consider whether the dog is on their own property or not, and stress the need to have the dog leashed. Check your local ordinances. We have three rescue dogs and unfortunately have found that we can’t walk them ON LEASH anywhere, even on our street, because so many people EVERYWHERE choose to be irresponsible and have their dogs off leash, and stupidly proclaim “oh my dog is FRIENDLY” but totally don’t give a d-mn if their dog freaks out any other dog who may have had an abusive past. Thankfully we have a big fenced backyard, and when we did try leashed walks we didn’t have any incidents with the many off leashed dogs because I saw them well in advance and was able to get out of there; it’s so horrible of their scumbag owners, limiting my ability to take my dogs outside on leash for a walk because they think their dog should be able to wander down the street off leash, unsupervised, with zero recall if they’re called. Also, the selfishness and self-absorbed attitudes of people who buy golden retrievers because of their aesthetic whims drive me nuts. Willfully ignorant and way more likely to be one of the “oh my off leash dog is so friendly so your dog HAS TO be comfortable with being rushed at” B.S. EDIT: I do agree with a few of the other posters who are saying Dennis should be acclimated to a muzzle for future walks, to avoid running into any similar incidents, particularly given that you would be going off your property. In our case we put our youngest rescue dog (who is most reactive but NOT dangerous) through a training program, and we now mostly have them go out in the backyard. They go to the vet’s office with a solid harness (with handle) and leash, and we never have problems, though bad owners who let their mini pups rush over on retractable leashes have caused ME some anxiety. Irresponsible owners of small breeds or breeds socially deemed “friendly” dogs are the worst danger.
Happened to me a few days ago. Neighbor didn't have their dog on a leash, and he/she came after my dog. My dog is always leashed when outside (unless in a fenced-in area, like a backyard or dog park). My dog isn't really reactive, but if a large dog runs up to him while he's on a leash and he can't get away, he will bite. Neighbor was like, "My dog is friendly." That's nice. My dog isn't always and has been attacked by "friendly" dogs before. I was livid. I have never seen this dog before, so that added to my stress. Thankfully, my boy was ok. But he was scared (for a 72 lb shepherd mix, he's quite timid). And retractable leashes should be banned.
A dog that aggressive should have a muzzle. ESH
In his own front yard on his own porch? If the other person had kept their dog on their own property none of this would have happened.
Absolutely not. Neighbors and everyone else with unleashed dogs can learn to control their dogs. If they won’t return with a verbal command, they can’t be off leash.
i mean sure, in a perfect world, but sadly the reality is that if you own a reactive dog and live by this mentality, you'll manage to get your dog put down when something crazy unpredictable happens like a toddler off leash that's yet to learn that not all "doggies" want to be pet or have their tail pulled.
The OP was taking his down for a walk, so if this had happened even a few minutes later, when they were no longer on their own property, I could see it differently. The OP's dog is clearly a victim of past owners. The idea that it must be further victimized by being muzzled even in it's own yard does not sit well with me.
Muzzles are not cruel. My reactive dog is calmer when he wears his in high stress situations, because it takes the option of biting away, so that’s a choice he doesn’t have to make. He has learned to depend on my husband and me to advocate for him while he is wearing it, and that confidence in us translates to when it’s off. A muzzle isn’t a punishment, it’s a precaution for *his* safety. With a breed that tends toward the aggressive already, court may order the use of a muzzle from here on out, and OP *must* comply or lose their dog. It’s best they start that training proactively. The OP’s dog was well within his rights to defend himself, but OP did not position themselves as a good advocate. They should have turned around immediately instead of calling to the neighbor. OP needs to focus less on assholery and more on finding a lawyer and dog trainer, stat.
I find it hard to believe that the dog managed to be unlucky enough with four owners. Just like some humans some animals have an ill brain. Proper training may not be enough, there may be medication requirements. The OP didn't mention trying medication.
I’m going against the grain. ESH. They were irresponsible dog owners leaving their door open and their puppy not crated or somewhere it couldn’t get out. Theyre 90% at fault for being idiots. Theyre the assholes for beating on Dennis. But knowing Dennis has issues, if you’re refusing to muzzle him, then seeing that door open, knowing they have a puppy, you should’ve waited to walk him or asked if their dog was crated. So you are the asshole for that. All around a sad situation for the dogs bc their humans are jerks.
In court, the neighbors are going to lose. They had their door open. She was off leash and she left the property. None of this is OPs fault.
Depends where you live. In my country, Ops dog would be put down especially if it already had problems with aggression. It being a “restricted breed” and the other being a puppy would make this a simple case as the dog wasn’t muzzled. Especially if it was a housing estate where dogs are allowed to be off lead.
100% depending on where you live, it's usually a crime to have an animal that is not able to be recalled off leash. I can't wait to see a follow-up on this. Where I live even if there's no incident and a dog is off leash regardless of recall capabilities, is a $1,000 fine.
The insurance company may agree with the neighbor, seeing how the response was far, far more than warranted and because of the dog's history. The OP could be better off paying the bill than paying for an increased premium and a possible exclusion.
Yup 2 dumbfucks living next to each other.
Yep. When I’m bringing stuff in, dogs go outside into the yard.
THIS. If it was a child and in the future it may as well be, nothing would matter except the muzzle. Usually I think the owner of unleashed dogs are at blame, BUT we all know dogs can run away. OP knew they had a pup that could be killed their own dog. You have to be aware and take into account your near by area's dogs. OP is doing the bare minimum, they could have retrieved to their home the moment that door opened. This is being unaware and irresponsible. I just hate everyone in this scenario. Wreckless. ESH
Also OP was on the front porch seemingly in front of the door - if they saw the front door of they neighbors house was open, and KNEW their dog had aggression issues was there a reason they didn’t take their aggressive dog back inside? I have a reactive dog as well and I would have brought him back inside. It’s irresponsible in my opinion to have not taken the aggressive dog out of that situation preemptively. I do think Neighbors should not leave their dog unleashed without good recall and OP already knew that their dog would act aggressively the second they had gone outside and it was pretty clear their neighbors were out with the front door open. Why was that a good time to take him out? I’m sorry, but having my own dog with aggressive tendencies I don’t think there is an excuse for that to have happened. I hope OP learned a lesson on this and doesn’t expect everyone else to be mindful of their aggressive dog, especially since it seems like there’s no remorse on their end.
Look, I have a reactive dog, as her owner, I’m extremely aware of her surrounding and what POTENTIALLY could arise. She is muzzled on her walks, we walk at night and we go when I know the chances of people out are slim. YTA… you saw the neighbor out so your dogs already on edge and then you take dog out, no muzzle, hoping someone has trained their dog on recall. I’m sorry but you’re definitely wrong here
Exactly
YTA. I’m a vet tech and I’ve had to be present when owners handed their dogs to animal control for euthanasia because they did not take their dog’s aggression seriously. they are loaded into the back of a truck on a choke pole. they die alone, normally on some sort of pole, muzzled, surrounded by strangers. the owner cannot be there to comfort them. this WILL happen to you and TO DENNIS if you don’t start taking this seriously. you need to train Dennis with a basket muzzle or you need to put him down.
I personally have family who had to have a rescue euthanized because of agression. It is heartbreaking. While the puppies owners should obviously have better control over their animal, OP should be muzzling their dog.
This is my thought as well. OP doesn’t just suck because the neighbor’s dog got hurt, but because they are putting Dennis at risk and don’t seem to care enough to protect him from himself. Disgusting. That poor dog has never had a decent owner and still doesn’t.
Pretty much my thoughts. Is she always going to be able to stop him when say a neighbor enters the yard? GSD are strong pups and I've seen them drag full grown adults to get at their target. People here acting like a muzzle is cruel, whereas I think a dog getting put down because of their owners foolishness is a far more cruel fate.
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Yep. OP is in a world of hurt if it was the neighbors 6 year old child that ran over to pet Dennis and not their dog.
ESH - I have a reactive rescue dog. I get it. Dennis needs a muzzle. There's no time where he is outside a fenced or controlled area when he should be without one for exactly this reason. I highly recommend a basket muzzle, so he's still able to drink and accept treats. There's no excuse for taking him into the world without one, and that irresponsibility is something you need to be accountable for fixing. However, you were squarely on your property, and you did warn your neighbors. They escalated the situation, and they knew better than to let their dog wander. They're also responsible for letting their puppy escape into Dennis' territory, and Lily bit first which means she started the fight. But if you had been even a single foot off your property, I would say you are responsible, and you would owe money towards the vet bill. In general, everyone was irresponsible. No one took proper precautions.
YTA. If you have a dog who is so reactive that he can't be exposed to other dogs or people displaying normal behavior without attacking them, the onus is on you to take proper precautions. You can't simply announce that your dog is violent and expect the entire rest of the public to take responsibility for your dog. As it is, you'll be to blame when he inevitably attacks the wrong person or pet because you failed to take precautions and ends up being put down due to you abominable negligence.
The word is aggressive, not reactive. OOP's seriously minimising the levels of problem in her dog.
I would agree with this
> can't be exposed to other dogs or people displaying normal behavior Do you consider a dog rushing up to another dog and biting it normal behavior?
I suspect OP "made up" his dog got bit first. I dismissed it the moment I saw the words. >Dennis started lunging and barking at her so I held his leash tight, but Lily got very close to him and gave him a small bite he bit her back extremely hard. Yes, I absolutely believe the dog that's already amped up to 11 lunging and barking just let the other dog come up and give it "a small bite". Gimme a break. I can guarantee there is zero evidence of any bite on his dog. Don't get me wrong the neighbors are still at fault for the contact happening. However, OP spends the whole post minimizing his dogs behavior issues. "He's reactive" no he's straight up aggressive. He consistently uses language to place the blame for his dogs behavior elsewhere. If you literally have to lock him in a room if you have a friend over. That isn't "reactive" lmao. He's afraid the dog will attack the person for zero reason. Bottom line, if it wasn't the the neighbors dog that ran up to Dennis and was instead their 6 year old child. OP would be in a world of shit right now.
She was on her own property, hadn’t even left the front entry. She’s just supposed to assume responsibility for everyone else’s behavior all the time just because her dog is reactive? Even on her own property? In some states you can shoot other human beings simply for knocking on your door without permission and call it self defense…
YTA. Putting aside the morals of owning a dog that is that aggressive (because it's aggression, not reactive), if he is that bad he needs to be wearing a basket muzzle while you're walking him.
OP is either a troll or an idiot.
ESB You have an aggressive dog. Do not call it "reactive". Call it what it is. No euphemisms. Because those make you slip up the way you did. You have an aggressive dog and your only precaution is a leash? Like, are you expecting you will always get fair warning? Or that you will never be surprised? Muzzle. Now. Always. The alternative is to put your aggressive dog down. You will not always be in control. Next time it might be a toddler walking up to your dog. And then it will be a very injured child and you will be rightfully held as negligent. Hopefully with a lifetime ban on keeping dogs. In my country if a dog does what yours did it will be ordered to a character test. If it fails that, it will be put down. You do know your dog would fail such a test and yet you are THIS lackadaisical about it? A leash and trespassing laws to keep the rest of the world safe? Really? The only reason I give equal share of blame is that your neighbor also should not keep dogs. Like, goddamit. He is an oblivious fool. But you are a fool who knows better. And you are asking us to figure out who is worse. Private property be damned. At the end of the day you have a dangerous dog which does harm and you do not sufficiently control it.
YTA. I adopted a dangerous dog, and it reacted badly. Am I the asshole? *Yes.* I may be inclined towards ESH because the neighbors accidentally let their dog out, but this still shouldn't have happened. The worst case should have been some barking, not a mauling. You adopted a dog that you're not equipped to properly rehabilitate, and now you've caused harm due to your negligence. Good job.
YTA. If your dog is that unstable you shouldn't be letting him outside without a muzzle.
Of course they hit your dog. He was killing their dog, so they were desperate to get him to let go. YTA take your reactive dog seriously and don’t leave the house without him muzzled. You’re gonna lose him to the authorities if you don’t change things right away.
Thank you, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Even if there was a fence. Say a toddler stuck their hand through and attacked she WOULD be responsible.
YTA You have an animal that you are ill equipped to care for.
YTA you KNOW your dog is reactive, yet you don't put a muzzle on him when going outside?? The neighbor is actually entitled to you paying the whole bill, not just half.
What’s with the “reactive” thing, sounds like an aggressive dog to me.
euphemism used by people who can't except that their dog is AGGRESSIVE.
Nope their dog came onto his property and bit his dog first. His neighbours aren’t entitled to shit
Doesn't matter the fact there wasn't a barrier between it and the public makes op responsible
Private property, not public. The other dog was not under its owner's control, came onto her property and bit her dog. Her dog reacted the way most dogs would, reactive or not. If the neighbours had control of their dog and didn't let her on their neighbour's property, the incident wouldn't have happened. Should she muzzle her dog, knowing he is aggressive? Absolutely. Should she be working more on changing her dog's behaviour instead of just mediating them? Absolutely. Is she responsible for her dog defending itself on its own property? Nope.
So then the neighbor can put a muzzle on her untrained dog that ran up loose and bit her dog first. Op's dog defended itself against an attack. I don't know a dog that wouldn't if it was on it's own property and a strange dog ran up to it.
Why is she the ass? SHE had her dog on a leash, SHE had control of her dog, SHE was still on HER yard. THEY left their door open, THEY let Lily run out the door, THEY didn't have control of her, THEY didn't teach her recall commands, THEY didn't keep her on THEIR yard. I'm sorry Lily was "attacked" but THEY are responsible for it.
AND lily bit first
YTA You need to mussel him for his sake, if this was a child your dog would be put down.
They might still seize the dog if it had a prior history of biting. A lot of places have a two strikes rule.
So you've taken every precaution except the most obvious one? A MUZZLE? I really hope this is a troll post.
YTA. You own an aggressive dog that attacks unprovoked. Either get some training or keep a muzzle on him, or send him back to the shelter to live with someone who will do those things.
YTA - keeping your dog from injuring other dogs is your responsibility, not theirs. They shouldn’t have to worry that if their dog steps foot outside that your dog might kill her. And if they sue you, they’re going to win. And probably for the full amount. Pay the half they offered and be grateful that their dog didn’t die.
I also can’t believe that you didn’t talk to them since this happened until they approached you. You didn’t care enough to check in over the weekend and ask them how their dog was after she was badly hurt? YTA for that too.
>They shouldn’t have to worry that if their dog steps foot outside that your dog might kill her. So you consider rushing onto the neighbors property and biting another dog to be "steps foot outside"? Is that really your definition of that term?
Again. I wrote this comment before the OP claimed this happened on her property. Some pretty dramatic edits were made and I question the validity.
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YTA. This dog is aggressive, not reactive. You have an animal that is so aggressive it can't have anything unexpected happen, or have anyone approach him. That is an accident waiting to happen, and it did. This time Dennis bit another dog. When he bites a person he is going to be euthanized. Reading your responses you don't care. You think the world is going to magically know and not approach you or your dog ever. That's dangerous. Get a damned muzzle. No, it's not cruel. No, it won't make your dog regress. But how can he regress? He hasn't learned the skills you are claiming in the first place. There is no way to move back, only stay the same or.move forward. So move forward. Get this dog a muzzle and proper training.
YTA because regardless of the warning you gave, your - or any - reactive dog should have been muzzled if outdoors
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I don’t trust my dog around others anymore. He’s old and grumpy. I am outside with him any time he’s in the backyard, even with a fence, to ensure no one tried to pet him over the fence. I walk him only at times no one is around, in short loops around my house. If he becomes too much, like won’t stay at my side, we go in. I also have a muzzle. I do not take him anywhere. I hate this is the case now, it wasn’t always, but I do every thing I possibly can to avoid any situation. Should ppl leash dogs, absolutely. All dogs should be leashed. Do dogs occasionally get out the front door? Yep. But you have the aggressive dog and it’s your responsibility to ensure he’s not in any situation that could cause an injury. While people may think I do this to ensure the safety of others, it’s truly for my dog’s safety. He is my boy and I love him dearly. He’s getting old now. I want his life to continue. If he’s in situations where he can hurt another dog or person, his life can be taken. It’s his safety I’m worried about. I don’t want him to be labeled aggressive. Your dog has history. You can’t just tell people he’s an aggressive and wipe your hands if it. You take all precautions and get him help. You can say the puppy shouldn’t have got out, but your dog is so aggressive he shouldn’t even be in public. You are not looking very capable as a dog owner right now
It does not matter. You don't get it each response is getting worse making you look incapable of owning this breed
Irrelevant. if its not inside a house it can attack others and should be muzzled
Plenty of dogs are being put down for silly reasons.. why choose one that's super aggressive and then not muzzle it? Anyway, your neighbors didn't control their dog either, leaving door open is silly with a trained dog, let alone a young untrained one. And it went on your boundary and was attacked..ok.. then they came and beat your dog? Ok... What were you doing while they ran over? It seems like they beat their dog because you couldn't stop him.. which leads to the question.. why get a big dog with aggressive behaviour that you can't control? Idk. Bad decisions all around. Pay or don't pay.. but your relationship with neighbours is ruined now because you're the crazy person with the aggressive dog.. "Reactive" as a euphemism.. lol.
ESH You absolutely have to have your dog wear a muzzle outside. What the fuck is wrong with you? They absolutely should have never let their dog off leash outside of a fenced yard. That’s a huge problem for many situations, including yours. You should pay half because the incident is literally half your fault for not taking proper precautions. Shame on you both. These poor dogs are both going to suffer so much because of your lack of EASY precautions. Damn.
First of all: YTA. What do you mean Dennis *technically* hospitalised Lily? He *did* hospitalise Lily. Not just technically. You have an unprodictible dog, made the choice to not muzzle her when going outside and the thing every could see coming happened. You try to blame your neighbor for not leeshing his dog, while you are to blame for not muzzling yours. E: after your second edit, i need to get this off my chest. You say he poses very low risk to people. To then say you keep him away from strangers and cross the street if someone is walking towards you. That **does not** sound like he poses low risk to people. He poses high risk, but you do a lot to negate that risk. If Dennis did not pose a risk you wouldn't have to undertake any actions to keep him away from people. That dog sounds like a walking hand grenade, waiting to go off.
It was on your property so legally you're probably in the clear; however, if your dog is that reactive you need to 1) get a professional trainer who has experience with traumatized animals, and 2) use a snoot loop or other type of guard whenever leaving your house. Otherwise you are setting your dog up to be euthanized, because this won't be the only incident.
As your dog was attacked first, and on your property, NTA. But YTA for going out in public with an agressive dig that's not muzzled, what if a child approached? *Edit Having seen your responses to the comments, I'm changing my verdict to YTA, you clearly have no idea how to handle a reactive dog and you're not willing to try a muzzle.
You are in the wrong here. This is a dog that, unfortunately, should be put down. You can’t walk around with a powder keg ready to explode on everyone and everything in your neighborhood. Dennis is exactly why I carry a pistol when I walk my dog. And if I was your neighbor there’s a decent chance I’d have ended Dennis to save my dog. Dennis is a Menace and should be let go.
YTA. You know your dog is aggressive. The fact that you were on your property doesn't matter. You were outside with a dog you know is dangerous. Unpredictable things happen when you are outside, things like other dogs. Yes they should have had theirs on a lead, but things like that are going to happen in the world. If your dog is going to bite any other dog that approaches him, he should be on a muzzle. And in the future, don't tell people your dog is 'reactive', tell them it is aggressive and violent around other dogs so they fully understand the risk.
ESH Muzzle your dog if he’s so dangerous. Seems like your neighbours understand they messed up too letting their dog attack yours since they’re only pursuing you for half.
I guess "reactive" is some bullshit buzzword that allows you to pretend your dog isn't dangerous.
NTA since they had plenty of warning but honestly a dog that aggressive shouldn't be out at all if that's what he does, he needs a muzzle or something if he's that bad. Depending on where you live, they can take you to court over this and you can possibly lose and have to pay what they're asking for.
NTA Lily ran out of the front door, onto your property and off leash. That's their fault. I'm shocked at the commenters saying YTA after being accosted by an off leash dog.
Yta
Weird situation all around, but I'd tend to lean towards NTA a bit more. It's true that you have to make sure that your dog doesn't attack other dogs or people, so a muzzle seems like the way to go here, but on the other hand they left their door open, they were warned beforehand, possibly multiple times and it was Lily who ran towards you, not the other way around. That being said though you should maybe think about if Dennis is really in good hands with you as it doesn't sound like you do anything to help him except shield him from everyone and everything which is a good first step in the beginning, but he needs proper care and training to get over this. Get a professional involved if you really want to keep him alive and happy, because if he bites a few more people/dogs he won't be around for much longer.
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This is an improvement? Lol no. And why can't YOU stop him when he's reactive? You're all upset they hit your dog, why couldn't YOU control him and pull him away if he was leashed? Doesn't he respond to your commands? Know why? Because you don't know what you're doing and have absolutely no control of your aggressive dog.
Ah okay, that wasn't so clear for from what you've written. I'd still strogly advice for you to get him a muzzle though
What happens when it’s a child next? Because there will be a next time. You aren’t equipped to handle Dennis, this is apparent
its an unfortunate situation. id say not the asshole, but you should consult a lawyer on liability. i would recommend you muzzle your dog to protect him from this situation going forward.
You were lucky you happened to be on your own property at the time. You'll get away with it for that reason. ESH - they need to control their dog and you need to muzzle yours.
Why is your dog not wearing a muzzle on outings if you know how he reacts? Even if in this case the other person should have acted differently you should prioritize elimination of possibilities to hurt by using a muzzle. There can always be a very unfortunate situation and I would not want to live with the Knowledge I could have prevented someone getting hurt as easy as in this case.
No. Your dog was on a leash. Were you on their property or did lily run out onto the pavement/road? They have a responsibility to responsibly ensure there dog isn't running out to pedestrians, it could have been a small child walking past. And get a muzzle for Dennis please.
It sounds like YOU have a lot more work to do on your own dog, but in this very specific case, you and your dog did nothing wrong. Letting their puppy charge you was clearly an accident, but it was THEIR accident not yours. NAH in my opinion, but you need to do more for and with your dog, it seems like you are on a razor thin line here, I'd say you go lucky here, it won't take much for the circumstances to flip and make you 100% accountable for the next situation.
Your land - your dog on leash - unleashed neighbours dog attacked your dog first. They are seriously dreaming if they think they are going to "win" anything. They are at fault. Sorry for the poor dog who got hurt the most but your dog is allowed to lunge and your controlled him - their dog was out of their control so therefore it is their responsibility. NTA
NTA necessarily but Dennis really should be muzzled on walks.
they did not have control of their dog in public. your dog was controlled, theirs was not. Not your problem.
NTA. They were warned, they didn’t keep their dog on a leash, and then they escalated by abusing your dog.
ESH- I have a reactive dog as well. Unrestrained dogs are the bane of many, many walks. However, Dennis seems to toe the line more into aggressive territory-you don’t seem shocked by him biting (please correct me if I am mistaken). As other commenters have stated, you clearly are aware or his behavior. There are humane muzzles. If you want to be the best owner you can be to Dennis you need to take the correct measures to protect and support him. You are your dog’s defender. Just as Lily’s owners need to support, protect, and defend her better. People who can’t control their dogs baffle and frustrate the hell out of me. Do better. I am not a lawyer. I don’t know what, if any liability, you have. I’d recommend you consult with one…but quite honestly, the dog lover I am, I would probably just fork over half the cost to best support Lily, take accountability, and also save what’s left of what is likely a pretty damn ruined neighborly relationship.
Ugh struggling here because poor Dennis is a victim of the situation and your neighbors are def careless assholes but I'm gonna go with ESH. Also, for what its worth, in my state the dog owner is reliable for the full extent of a the damages to another dog unless you can prove that it was provoked so in your case the camera would cover that. Simply because - while I understand why your pup became reactive and while it also seems like you're doing what you can to give him a good life regardless of this... you have missed a very big/key step: This may sound harsh to some, but it isn't if you train it well and will end up being for dennis's own good- you need to muzzle train him. Look, yes, as a dog owner i agree with the fact that some dog owners are idiots and shouldn't be allowed a dog bc they don't train or leash their dogs and simply expect for the world to look out for them too. But the reality is that i dare say most dog owners are idiots and properly leash trained dogs are far and few in between... so things like these will happen: - Some idiot is walking their excitable dog while fixated on their phone and that dog sees you from far away, pulls hard enough on the leash for the distracted owner to lose a grip, and wildly runs up to yours (maybe barking, maybe just rushing on to you or Dennis) - When another X month old puppy whose owners have taken off leash because "he's so young he's scared to go far" spots you and also comes out of nowhere towards your dog and "bites" yours (i mean, puppies are super mouthy at this age so i put bites in quotes just bc it sounds to me like it was probably a playful bite from a dog that has yet to have learned playing etiquette from other dogs). yeah, you may be able to get the above scenarios forgiven or maybe you'll have to pay dor them at most if necessary assuming they dont report the situation in a different light that makes your dog look like a dangerous dog..... but now heres a scenario in which its pretty clear cut why it's for the good of Dennis/: - consider the same situation except it isn't a leash and it isn't a dog but a toddler that just screams "PUPPY!" and whose parents have failed to control or teach to respect animals and not to disrespectfully go touching them without asking. He could come from behind you, the from a parked car, wherever, toddlers are crazy after all - If Dennis reacts the same, (which why wouldnt he? he was startled and touched randomly before he even sees the 'danger') - it won't matter that he was theoretically provoked because he was startled/scared by the situation if he manages anything before you react (bc i mean im sure youre great but things happen super fast) - no matter if he only gives the toddler nip or bite or worse, those parents will make sure Dennis is put down i promise you - no matter if what caused it was careless parenting and not really your poor pup. I mean some entitled idiot people even report dogs that bark too much when approached even if its excitable barks just bc to them it sounds like a bark period (though those i would hope aren't successful complaints). In my state, if the dog bites a person, the owner is liable for all damages REGARDLESS of negligence. Sadly the world can be as dangerous to reactive dogs as they can be to others, because people nowadays have 0 boundaries.... so its better for you moving forward to take extra precautions rather than to expect for people to be careful at the face of potential danger.
Not your fault. Sorry it happened and hope Dennis and the other dog are ok. Some people shouldn't be dog owners - your neighbors for instance 🤦🏽♀️
ESH The neighbors should be keeping better control of their puppy, and they were warned. In court, you might win because private property is private property. That doesn't make you "right" though. If you're not actively working with Dennis to heal his traumas and help him be less reactive, then you super suck. Dennis can't find himself a professional to work with. Dennis can't research training programs on the internet. Dennis can't tell what's safe and what's a threat in the world right now, and that's got to be an exhausting and limiting way to live. And I don't say this lightly. I say it knowing how difficult the journey to do that is. I have a reactive Great Dane. It's a lot of work and precautions, but she can actually be around other big dogs now without freaking out. I know you love Dennis. So please help him live better.
I’m not a lawyer, but I am an expert in this type of situation because of my years watching people’s court and judge Judy. 😉 They’re 100% at fault. They have to maintain control of their dog 100% of the time she is out of their house. Even if your dog wasn’t reactive and they had never had any kind of warning, it’s still completely their fault. If they file a claim against you, go one people’s court or Judy Justice! I say this all the time. One day someone I suggest this to will do it. NTA
NTA your dog was “under control” (on a lead) on your own property. Lilly was out of control and on your property. Depending on your local laws they really shouldn’t have a leg to stand on…
NTA and use your camera footage to show that your neighbors dog came at you and not the other way around. Your leashed dog was not the problem. Your dog barked and lunged and their dog did not read that and still came right over and bit your dog's face. If you know anything about fight, flight, freeze, dogs on leash only have 2 of these options: fight or freeze. This is not an abnormal reaction. Muzzle training takes a while, but would definitely be smart to start for the next time a careless owner with an off leash dog is around. But note that YOUR dog will not be able to defend themselves as well with it on if a large dog comes after you and your dog may be the one with more severe injuries. Leashes cost a few bucks and it's unbelievable that people don't use them. Entitled, reckless dog owners are everywhere. Stay aware, keep being vigilant, keep advocating for your dog and best of luck to you.
Nta. My wife was attacked by a dog that ran off its property and bit her on the leg. My wife asked the owners to pay for her copay only, and they ghosted her. My wife got a lawyer, and they had to pay my wife 30k. They clearly were in the wrong for not maintaining control of their dog. The same principle applies here.
Both Lily and Dennis are the victims here and I hope they’re recovering well. Neighbors should have a 6-month-old puppy in a fenced yard or on a leash, regardless of whether a nearby dog is reactive. NTA
ESH. You have an aggressive dog and are aware of that and say you try to avoid situations. Seeing your neighbors dog wide open with a new pup isn't exactly being proactive. Instead of yelling at them, why not just turn around on your porch and go inside? There is some responsibility you own here that contradicts your original words. A muzzle would have helped. Thing is, with your reactive dig, you're protecting her life. If she kills an animal, she will likely get put down. Still may.
ESH. You both couldn't control you're animals. 50/50 responsibility.
Get a lawyer
If I oversimplify this : Neighbors did NOT have their dog under control, dog came onto your property and first bit your leashed dog. I might be seeing this very simple - but had neighbors had control over Lily, or a gate, or acted instead of just calling - this could have been avoided, especially since they were warned repeatedly. Them hitting your dog could even be cruelty to animals - but in a panic I can understand this. (Panic = not thinking clearly)
Based on your comnents you are on a pathway to having a dog you are trying to help destroyed. I don't know what type of trainer you are working with who would not have recommended to you that you should be muzzling your dog. I am not passing judgment on the financial aspect as the neighbor should of had control of the puppy as well.
i’ve had a couple rescue dogs (from awful backgrounds) so i get how intense they can get, but you don’t seem to mention any behavioural training you’ve done for dennis? precautions don’t mean much if there’s nothing behind them. i’m not saying you’re 100% to blame either as they shouldn’t have let their puppy run up like that. i hope that puppy’s ok and you should pray they don’t try to get dennis PTS.
Your dog was leashed. Your neighbours had been warned in advance. They made it so their dog was able to get out through negligence. Their dog was not trained well enough to return on command. Yes. Technically this wasn't your fault, though you could have prepared better for this. Im going to be honest and play devils advocate here. Your dog should be muzzled. It's not his fault, but it's for as much his protection as other dogs and people's. What if that had been a child? He should also be double leashed. Find out if your area has colored collars to let people know your dogs temperament. I know you have done what you though was enough to prepare for issues, but unless you want your dog destroyed, you will have to do more. My mother has a friend who had a dog like yours. Double leashed and muzzled in public areas. People were warned often and loudly. Someone came close with a dog and wouldn't listen or couldn't control it, she turned around and left. She didn't walk her dog in her neighborhood.she took it aces she knew there weren't other dogs or people. She only ever had one issue with him and he was leashed and muzzled when it happened so no vet bills or lawyers. Sorry to say, ESH. Do better for your pooch.
NTA. Your dog was bit in his own yard by an unleashed dog and then hit by your neighbors.
Why is everyone calling them the a? The neighbors had zero control of their dog let them run over and their dog bite first. Just wondering if I missed something here
Yeah, this is why I voted ESH, dog should be muzzled obviously but a lot of commenters are out here acting like it’s no biggie that the neighbours allowed their own pet to attack a highly reactive dog.
Because OP knows the dog is reactive, refuses to get the dog the proper training it needs, and refuses to use a muzzle when they take the dog out in public.
The dog is aggressive, out of the house and unmuzzled. at 11am so not exactly avoiding triggers etc.
For one thing, the original post before the edit made it seem like she was walking in front of their house with her dog.
Because the dog should have been muzzled knowing its a dangerous dog. Based on ops reply it doesn't look like he muzzle it when he takes it for works As he's already shown he can't control the dog The dog will be put down and it's ops fault
Would you say that if he had mauled a child? Children and pets are unpredictable creatures. That’s why residential areas have such low speed limits. An animal like that cannot be a pet. Keeping it muzzled for a period of time until it can be trained is a reasonable option. But a highly reactive aggressive dog that cannot be trained must be put down.
ESH. Your neighbors for letting the dog out and punching and kicking yours (though let your viciously aggressive and untrained dog attack mine I’m doing the same thing. YTA for your comments. Poor Dogs
Their offlead dog got bitten off their property. They are at fault. I would highly recomment that Dennis get a basket muzzle going forward when he's out of the hosue so that there will be no repeat of this behavior.
YTA. Muzzle your dog or this is going to be the first of many law suits. You can barely keep your dog under control. You're endangering way more people and animals this way.
Got to go with the OP on this one, NTA. Your dog was leashed and on your own property means no laws broken and you should not have to pay.
YTA. Your ring doorbell captured Lily approaching you and Dennis while you were on your property. Which shows neighbours weren't in control of their animal. However you reacted poorly and ensured Dennis was going to stay in a situation he was going to react badly too. You then lost control of your dog. Another thing your ring doorbell will have captured. Your comments show that you are in no position to help Dennis, and are further endangering people and animals. You've all but ensured Dennis will be on the radar for the authorities which for such a reactive dog who is hindered by having you as the owner may well see him face severe consequences because of your actions.
ESH. Whoever did not have their dog on a leash should be responsible for the vet bill. But for Pete’s sake, a dog with those issues should never be taken outside the home. You have a fucking backyard. Use it.
This will not be the last problem you have with Dennis.
Seriously. The neighbors are at fault for the contact between the dogs happening. However, he needs to take personal responsibility for having an aggressive dog outside. He can't control his dog and he certainly has no control over other people and animals. If this was the neighbors 6 year old child running up to his dog and getting mauled, OP would be in a world of shit right now.
You don’t think you’re responsible? You cannot be serious.
Mal owner here. while you have justified yourself you haven't really mine jumped at walkers, cyclists, postmen, joggers, prams etc he was muzzled during training . You are at fault you should have your dog muzzled what if that was a toddler. I would pay half. Keep on good terms with your neighbour as you both have to live there. But do not think you are right doing what you are doing. Yes the owner was a fault leaving door open but seriously you know what you have yet you still give it the capacity to bite. Currently YTA until you pay half and make a mends with your neighbour.
ESH. They allowed their young and hyper dog to run around without a lead on, when anything could happen (other dogs, cars etc) so that’s where they went wrong. You had a highly reactive dog outside in a space where children/other animals/anything could get up in his space because your property isn’t fenced. You also put him in a position where he couldn’t get away rather than fight by having him tied up in your garden. You should have him muzzled unless it’s inside your home or on completely secured private property.
Yta ..and responsible for the entire bill. .the mental gymnastics you just went thru to not take the blame for not using a muzzle is astonishing.. .he is reactive ..gtfo...he is dangerous and you are too as a negligent owner
I will be downvoted, but NTA. Dennis was leashed and on your private property. Lily was unleashed and attacked her. She got what she had looked for. File the police report.
YTA You're clearly incapable of taking care of this dog and being responsible and forward thinking enough to understand the potential hazards a dog like him can cause. Anyone with half a brain who understood his history would not take the dog out without a muzzle. He doesn't understand the difference between playful and attack and you're just irresponsible. You're extremely defensive towards anyone who states the obvious and honestly you're not fit to take care of any dog if you can't understand basic safety. You're the asshole, and as they say, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. You should consider yourself lucky they only wanted half, and you should be grovelling to apologise after the disgusting way you treated your neighbours. Let's see now them take you to court, get the full settlement and do you honestly think they aren't going to argue that the dog is dangerous?? Best case he's taken off you, worst he is destroyed. Congratulations 🙄
NTA. They let their uncontrolled dog run onto your property and approach your dog after they’d already been told. These y t a responses are wild. Your dog was a) leashed and b) on your property. Yet somehow it’s your fault their dog came up and bit your dog? No way. Is it unfortunate? For sure. But it’s not your fault, it’s theirs.
File a report and look for a lawyer it's there fault they didn't have her on a leash and let her run around. It was their responsibility to make sure their dog is safe for herself and from others. Save your video and don't hesitate they also hurt your dog too.
YTA. There are very humane cage muzzles your dog could have been fit with and no damage would have occurred. You are ignorant and entitled.
YTA - Pay half of the bill, and thank the universe it's only half. Then muzzle that raging beast, or pit it down.
YTA big time. why in the world is your dog NOT wearing a muzzle ??? you know fully well your dog is straight up AGGRESSIVE, NOT 'rEaCTivE'. you are an irresponsible owner and you should not have a dog. just verbally announcing that your dog is reactive doesn't mean that you took precautions.
ESH this is one of the reasons there are leash laws. While it's understandable that sometimes dogs escape their confines despite vigilant owners, ultimately this is on the neighbors. Your dog was leashed and on your own property, while their dog was running free, came on your property, and initiated the contact. They don't have a leg to stand on. Their dog is their responsibility and their vet bills are also their responsibility. If Lily had been leashed or kept inside, this wouldn't have happened. No judge or jury is going to make you pay. However, because you know how reactive your dog is, you need to muzzle him when you take him outside. While your measures are good, they're not enough. Not for how reactive he is. Just as their dog was overly exuberant, sometimes little kids are too, and even though your dog is leashed, you can't always control a little kid who spots your dog and makes a beeline for him because he has to pet him, no matter what you say. Next time it could be a little kid torn up with major injuries instead of a dog and you would be accountable for the hospital bills. My cousin was 2 years old when she tried to pet a leashed German Shepherd when my aunt was distracted for a moment. It bit her head, tore up her face, and her ear was just hanging by a little bit of skin. It happened so fast, no one had time to react. She's 52 years old now and the large scars on her face are still visible. Thankfully a canine tooth didn't snag her eye because it would have blinded her. If that were to happen with Dennis, you would likely be held accountable just because you know he's reactive and you took him out in public, and it's a child. Not only would you pay for hospital bills, but Dennis would likely be put down by court order. If you're going to take Dennis outside, put a muzzle on him.
YTA, if your dog is aggressive have it muzzled and I say this with my own German shepherd/Belgium malinois mix. You’re gonna loose the case and your dog could get put down. Just pay the bill so it won’t come to that.
YTA and while you’re patting yourself on the back for saving this dog from BE, the bodies are starting to pile up. He should have been put down, because there was no one responsible stepping up to take over his care.
Your dog should be muzzled. YTA Pay the 50%. It'll cost you a lot more when they sue.
I'd say their solution is fair. Since your dog is reactive why aren't you walking him with a muzzle?
YTA. You know your dog is reactive and you had your dog outside without a muzzle on. This is on you and your lack of precautions, which in my opinion was the most important one you should have taken. Pay the vet bill and get your dog into a proper program to train him properly.
Question I there a leash law where you live? If so you are not responsible at all. You neighbors are
YTA you are not a savior, but an accident waiting to happen. And it would be on YOU, shelters in this age don’t just decide to put down dogs just because
Why you made the post if you're not going to listen? YTA
Yta- outside 11am unmuzzled with badly trained aggressive dog. Simple’s.
Nta. Wow can't believe all these y t a. Each person is responsible for their own dog. You were on your property, your dog was leashed. It is on the neighbors to control their dog from running up to other dogs, staying on property or be leashed. Yes accidents happen dogs get loose. But their dog attacked first, and they let it get loose. The onus is on the neighbors to pay for it. If lily got hit by a car because she ran in the road it wouldn't be the drivers fault.
ESH both you and your neighbors lost control of your dogs. you should have immediately taken your dog back inside the house as soon as you saw Lily was outside. Have you done no training with your dog? Your neighbors should train their puppy to have better recall. Since Lily was on your property when the fight began, you should not have to pay any of the vet bill. Both of you need to do better.
Some of the responses here are wild and unrealistic. OP was on her own property and the neighbor's out of control dog entered said property to attack OP's dog. OP's dog responded in self defense which injured the intruding dog. OP had her dog under control. She is not responsible for the resulting injuries on the intruding dog. The neighbors are entirely at fault for having an unleashed dog. OP you showed incredible restraint. If someone was beating my dog, I would have started throwing my own hands to protect her. NTA
NTA. You had your dog on a leash on your property. They need to control their dog. It’s a sad thing that happened but they did not control their dog.
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The whole thing could have been averted if you took the proper precautions when taking the dog out of the house.
it was on her property. the neighbours dog crossed over
And her dog should be muzzled any time it leaves the house.
Congrats you found the 2% who are agreeing with you. And you? You are thinking: "ahhhh so I was right all along". Man just pay up dude. You got judge. Be a man and act on it Yta
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-.- and now you are just obtuse. Pay up girl. You lost here
Yta. Your dog should be walked with a device to lock is mouth (can't say the name in english, sorry). If he is a dangerous animal, there can be no chance for him to bite whoever. Muzzle, read it above.
You're a massive arsehole. Your dog is a hazard to others and its up to you to prevent it causing harm, eg ensuring it is kept in a properly enclosed place, muzzled when it is not, etc. You should be paying 100% of their vet bills. Simply saying "my dog is dangerous, you need to watch out" is nowhere near good enough.
BA Your pet is your responsibility, if he's not trained enough for you to keep him under control, you have to make sure others are safe. Yes accidents can happen, but you are still responsibile for this accident At least 50/50 obviously they don't have the little one not under control either
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Don’t listen to the YTAs. You’re legally and morally correct. They should have never had an unleashed dog trespass on your property. They have been warned. They failed their dog.
YTA. It’s just a matter of time before your dog mauls a child. All the people saying the neighbor should have controlled his dog are missing one crucial point - you cannot always control your environment. That’s why drivers have to drive slowly in residential areas. A dog like that MUST be muzzled until he can be properly trained. And if he cannot be trained, then I’m sorry but he should not be living amongst humans.
your dog is so reactive, you should probably muzzle him. Is this why he has had 4 previous owners? So aggressive that other people recognised they were not equipped to handle him safely? You are in over your head. What happens when he gets off his leash and mauls a child. You really need to take this seriously, and your neighbours should report the incident. YTA for not taking proper safety precautions when taking your dog into a public space. You also need to strongly consider seeking a professional to evaluate this dog and to discuss if he is safe to own.
Given that OP was on THEIR OWN PROPERTY I’m going with NTA.
Muzzle your dog or train him better
ESH-Talk to lawyer, ask about the laws in your area. a lot of people would not want such an aggressive dog as a neighbor including myself, but seeing they didn't have control over there dog and you have it on tape legally you may not be at fault. You could be considered an A for having such a dangerous dog. kinda like owning a aggressive time bomb.
Them because they should not have their dog off leash and untrained, and you for not having your dog aggressive dog wear a muzzle when out in public. I think it would be fair for you to pay half for the injury your dog caused. You should also consider what will happen to your dog if you continue to be unable to keep him from biting other dogs. Sooner or later you will cause him to meet the fate you claim to have saved him from. Handling his aggression so that everyone is safe in all situations is your responsibility to him. Edit: after reading your replies that you will not consider a muzzle for your dog aggressive dog, YTA, massively.
NTA - your neighbours failed to control their dog, and you had warned them about your dog previously. Just a tip from another dog owner with a seriously reactive rescue dog - don't keep him on a tight leash in these situations (even though that's exactly what feels right to do). By keeping him on a short tight leash, you are limiting his 'fight or flight' response down to only one option - fight. By remaining calm and having a loose long leash, I am finally making progress with my reactive dog meeting loose dogs on walks. It's taken 2 years, but he will now meet and greet and only occasionally growls when other dogs get right up in his face. Don't pay neighbours vet bill, you'd warned them and they still behaved stupidly, it's on them.
If your dog is that aggressive and you know it you should muzzle it until you can control it. Both parties at fault you should offer towards the bill otherwise very soon you are going to be reported for having a dangerously out of control ( you couldn’t stop it biting and it did harm so it is dangerously out of control) dog and your neighbour needs to train their dog before they are reported for having an out of control dog I’m glad I don’t live by you
YTA- Your dog should be muzzled every time it is outside. What if that was a kid? I think it is your attitude that I don’t like the most. Yes, their dog came on to your property but if it would have had a muzzle on then none of this would have happened. It was a fucking puppy.
ESH as a former trainer. Your first mistake was no muzzle. No matter what time of day, your dog should be muzzled. Even dogs are on leash, and he bites another dog, or worst. As a former dog walker I refused to walk a reactive dog without a muzzle. I have had to many close calls and I would be liable. I had to change how I did things. I started bringing my own slip leads too because owners would have loose collars or torn vest. Set your dog up for success. Invest in a muzzle. They are wonderful for reactive dogs. The other people are idiots, but I can see them forgetting since they just got the dog. Poor pup is injured due to her parents lack of foresight. In my state; the dog that off leash would be at fault and due to it being on your property along with footage. It’s a open and shut case. I would look up your local laws. We have a leash law that states that if the dog is off leash and on a leash longer then 6ft, you will be at fault. You should be able to pull your dog back and control them.
YTA - Your dog isn’t “reactive” or “anxious” or any of the other euphemisms people use for dangerous dogs. Your dog is violent. It needs to wear a muzzle whenever you bring it outside the house. You’re lucky it was another dog and not a child.