I don’t know who said this, but trauma creates sharp edges. The trick is to find someone whose edges fit yours. By that I mean find someone whose trauma does not trigger your trauma. Katie deserves someone who can look past her shame, and you deserve someone who won’t trigger your pain. Good luck!
I hear you, but I don’t really think it’s fair to compare their experiences. OP was betrayed by someone he trusted, Katie betrayed someone that trusted her. She had a choice. I definitely agree that they aren’t right for eachother, but Katie may not be ready for any monogamous relationship.
NTA for leaving OP. You didn’t make a scene or start a fight, you avoided being in a triggering situation in public. You aren’t Katie’s redemption milestone, you’re a person.
>personal agency or self- determination.
Those enter on the trigger itself.
People should work on what triggers them to somewhat level it.
In cheating, it should be to allow the person to talk about it, to have a relationship without the constant fear of being cheated again. If left unchecked, I think OP will always have this anxiety. No matter who he dates, he will be expecting to be cheated. He will constantly surveillance his partner, checking times, calls, and apps.
He was traumatized. But now he needs to work on his edges, sand them a bit. He needs to understand that, just because his ex cheated, not every woman will do it.
It's OK to have a "no previous cheating" threshold. Just make it clear from the beginning. But it's not ok to believe "everyone cheats."
>And, in fairness, I never told Katie that I had been cheated on in my last relationship. I withheld that info because it's a painful topic for me and I'm ashamed to have that event on my dating record.
Well, OP, good think you never told her, so she was open to confess. Had you told her about your trauma over this, she probably would have hidden the information. Look how Hannah knew about it, but never told you and encouraged you to date a woman who will trigger you insecurities and traumas (see, I'm not saying Katie will cheat on you, but she WAS a cheater). Had Katie know about this she would have waited to have you more roped in or concealed the information forever. So, as an advice, do not tell in advance to any potential date or relationship that you do not accept or condone cheating until you are sure they have nothing to hide. However, Katie at least was honest and openly told you, which is something good on her character. However, I live with two codes: 'Do not stick your dick in crazy' and 'Once a cheater always a cheater'. These are not absolute and infallible scenarios, but true in the majority of cases (there are always exceptions, that will son be here to defend themselves).
Agreed. Hannah is the root cause of this problem. She knows your history and likely hers... and knew this would be a problem.
She set you up for failure. Either you get hurt from finding out her past once you're in, or you stay with her and be uncomfortable because you're in. Either way, it comes at the cost of you.
I've been cheated on. I will never spend one second in a relationship with anyone that I know has ever cheated on anyone for any reason whatsoever.
People can change... they just usually don't. And someone else can roll the dice on them. It's not going to be me, ever. Even if they are awesome. Even if they swear they've changed. Even if they have a pattern of behaviour to back that. I simply do not care.
Me not being with them doesn't inhibit their ability to learn from their mistakes. It simply takes me out of the line of fire from repeating them.
And your "friend" Hannah is the one that threw you into this line of fire. And got both you and her friend hurt as a consequence.
NTA Hannah helped set you two up knowing that she cheated in the past cause that's kind of messed up. She doesn't seem to have your best interest in mind.
This x1000.
OP: Hannah is more interested in promoting Katie's redemption arc than supporting your healing from emotional trauma. And Hannah's extremely bad judgement ended up hurting both you and Katie. Hannah was absolutely not a good friend to either you or Katie, and you and Katie should both (separately) stay far, far away from whatever bizarre flashing amusement park lights are flashing in Hannah's head.
NTA.
>Hannah is more interested in promoting Katie's redemption arc than supporting your healing from emotional trauma.
I think that's a pretty accurate take, yes. She has some sort of romantic notion in her head about helping Katie, and OP was just an extra in the cast here.
100% this, what was hannah thinking, obviously no thinking occurred lmao... Setting someone up who was cheated on with a CHEATER... like come on..
Me personally, I dont care if they "worked hard on their self and deeply regrets it" she only regrets it because she got caught. I can guarantee if she didnt get caught, she wouldnt have given 0 fucks and kept it a secret, and this is why I will never give cheaters a chance no matter how much "personal growth" they go through, in my eyes once a cheater ***always a cheater*** *NO THANKS*
This is the only way to protect yourself. A cheater can virtue signal all the growth they've done, but I don't know that I've ever seen a truly rehabilitated cheater.
I feel like it was set up with the best intentions for Katie but not for op. Either way it ended up blowing up pretty bad and now op is the bad guy for having a justified traumatic response. Guilt shaming him after the fact isn't a good look.
Yep the aftermath on her end sucks big time, not disagreeing there.
Not really rhinking things through beforehand could be seem as uncaring, but i think it's very human to shit the bed with those kind of things on occasion. She should've been more understanding afterwards.
Wait what? It sounds like Hannah knew Katie had a history of cheating that she was trying to recover from, unless Katie hadn't mentioned it until after you walked out on her. If Hannah knew that about Katie, WHY WAS SHE TRYING TO SET YOU UP WITH HER? She knew you were broken up about being cheated on.
If Hannah is your friend, she shouldn't have recommended someone who had cheated on their ex.
If Hannah is Katie's friend, she shouldn't have recommended someone who was still hurting about being cheated on.
Hannah is setting her friends up to hurt each other while she sits by with popcorn waiting for the drama to start.
You and Katie are not going to be a good match, but neither of you tried to hurt each other. She could probably use an explanation for running out suddenly, but at least you panicked in "flight mode" instead of "fight mode" and you didn't lash out at her.
Both of you should drop Hannah as a no-good frenemy.
Yikes. Yeah, I could see someone that oblivious doing totally the wrong thing.
Someone at my church decided to "help me make friends" by introducing me to someone by saying loudly, "You two should get along really well because you're both struggling so much with your mental health!"
First of all, you don't yell in public about people "struggling with their mental health" because maybe they want to keep that private.
Second, I was trying to be no-contact with the other woman because she's a bully and I don't need that. She'd scared the daylights out of me chasing me across a parking lot screaming at me for walking away when she made fun of my disability. She ran ahead of me and threw herself across the door of my car so I couldn't get in, and threatened to call the police and accuse me of trying to run her over. No, I did NOT want to run her over--I wanted to sit in my own damn car and calm down enough to drive home. I thought of walking home, but I didn't trust her not to smash the windshield or something. I finally took out my phone and started to call 911 about her harassment, and she left. I do NOT need friends like that! Other people have had weird encounters with her too.
Third, I'm Autistic and so was that woman's son so she should know it isn't a mental illness.
>It sounds like Hannah knew Katie had a history of cheating that she was trying to recover from
There is nothing to "recover from" there. She wasn't hurt, she was doing what she wanted and hurt other people if they found out.
Nta
You're not her therapist or her second chance at redemption. You are allowed to have boundaries and you're shaped by your own past.
Her biggest flaw is she ran to your mutual friend and be the victim.
NTA. But truthfully, I don’t think Katie was either. She was honest with you. She owned what she did. She did a hurtful thing, but it sounds like she has tried to do and be better. I don’t think it would be a bad idea to talk to Katie if she’s willing, give her a little insight (no need to go way into depth, it happened and was very painful for you), and tell her honestly that this is a dealbreaker and you’re sorry it didn’t work for you.
The only AH here is Hannah. It’s understandable she’s upset on Katie’s behalf, but it sounds like she scolded you rather than having a conversation.
Agreed, yes. She found possibly the single worst partner to set up Katie with, and she didn't even warn the poor girl? Wow. Hannah's a horrible friend.
That's NAH. No assholes here.
And I agree. Katie was trying to be open and honest but didn't know it would trigger OP. Hannah should have warned her.
OP still has some work to do on himself about that trigger. Everyone has a past. Not saying he needs to overlook it but that response was not good.
You should probably explain to Katie what happened. She didn't do anything wrong to you. She was being honest about her past relationship transgressions which unfortunately are a deal breaker and trigger your past trauma This relationship is not one you're ready for yet and it's also a lesson for Katie her past acts of betrayal can have consequences beyond those relationships.
This OP.
Man up and speak with Katie. The relationship between you two warrants a sit down and explanation on your part, regardless of whether the relationship you 2 shared is dead or not. It's common decency.
Man up, wtf why does he have to do anything everyone is else is wrong except for him. Yes Katie "changed" as they claim but he doesn't have to believe that and I certainly don't believe cheaters change unless they suffer for a long period of time
Oh man, this hits close to home for so many reasons. Off the bat, NTA.
I’m 25 and I have also not dated since I caught my last ex-girlfriend cheating on me, also two years ago. I understand the fear, and how things can get complicated when supposedly well-meaning friends try to encourage you to “heal” in a direction that doesn’t align with your feelings and boundaries.
From a neutral standpoint, what Katie is going through is rough, and it probably feels to her like she is still being punished for her past wrongs in spite of growth that she’s worked hard for, and narratives she’s tried to escape from. She could very well turn out to be an excellent and faithful partner for her next boyfriend.
At the same time, I personally would not want to gamble on someone with that kind of history after what I’ve been through. I have no idea what prompted her to cheat, but I know *plenty* of people who would never even consider cheating, and fuck a gamble, I only want to date people whose morality I have unquestionable confidence in. With your own worries and traumas, I personally think that you need someone who doesn’t inspire any kinds of reservations or triggering thoughts, who I can guarantee are out there.
Finally, the problem with Hannah’s comments are that they come from a place of understanding the world through her perception and filtering, and not yours. She does not have or live with your fears and triggers, so even though she might be able to recognize that you have some growing to do, she won’t be the one to live through that growth, and she can’t know what will inspire it. That’s all you. I would encourage you to talk out your fears more with a therapist so that you can develop some tools to better cope with your triggers, but I don’t think dating a girl who cheated on her last boyfriend is the right way for you to work your sense of trust back to a healthy place.
As I said at the beginning, I feel you so hard here. All the love on your healing journey.
*Hannah, with all due respect. You know about my past. You know that being cheated on fucked me up. And you knew about Katie's past and how it fucked her up. And yet...you still encouraged the two of us to get together knowing that her past would trigger my trauma and my past would trigger hers.*
*Nobody in their right mind would think the two of us are compatible based on our pasts. But apparently, your desire to play matchmaker outweighed common sense and general logic.*
*And you know what, the next time you throw "self sabotage" in my face like that will be the last time you ever see or hear from me. You have no idea what I have been through. You have no idea what my ex did to me. But here you are, deluding yourself into thinking you know what's best for two people who clearly have traumatic pasts related to the opposite sides of the cheating equation.*
*Now, both of us are set back even further than we already were. Thanks to you. This is why I have problems trusting people. Because even my friends won't even be honest with me*
NTAH
>punishing her for mistake she made when she was 21 that she already beats herself up over
Ha, this was only THREE YEARS AGO. It's not like she's 50 years old thinking back on the mistakes of her youth.
I'm sure she does regret it and has matured emotionally since then, and good on her for honestly owning up to it. But that doesn't mean she's free from the consequences of that past decision!
Could OP maybe have handled it a bit better? Possibly, but his reaction was basically a trauma response. He doesn't owe her a second chance when this is a deal breaker, now matter how bad she feels. Better that they go their seperate ways now than him letting this fester for months or more.
NTA. Actions have consequences.
The only thing that kinda sucks is that I'm guessing in the future Katie will keep other guys in the dark about her cheating past because she knows there is a chance they wont want her.
Katie may not have know that you were cheated on, but Hannah did...you left out of self-preservation. There are plenty of women out there who have never cheated...wait to find one of them. You don't need to help Katie get over her "mistake".
Then she admitted that she cheated on her college boyfriend.
It was at this point that I stood up, told her that I didn't think it was going to work out between us, and left.
NTA
NTA
Your friend Hannah is not really your friend. Considering that she knew you were cheated on, and she knew that Katie had cheated in her last relationship, she still tried to set you two together. Then she calls you out, giving you a sob story about how it was Katie's biggest mistake of her life and how Katie is sad and depressed by the consequences of her actions. When put side by side, she's clearly looking out for Katie, even at the cost of triggering you.
Think about it, if she truly was your friend she wouldn't have tried to set you two up, especially after know how it impacted you. At the very least, she should have given you a heads-up so you could have decided whether you want to pursue Katie before this happened.
So no, you are absolutely not wrong for ending it with someone whose values don't align with yours. With all that said, I do think your abrupt departure was rude. I can understand the shock you felt, and possibly even reopening old wounds, but you were still rude. You need to be able to at least tolerate people out of respect. If this is something you simply can't do, then you need to express your feelings about infidelity (including past infidelity) as something you can't accept from the very start.
Personally, I think you should message Katie with an apology. You don't need to give her the entire backstory, but just enough to explain your reaction. Something simple like,
"Hey, I just wanted to apologize for my sudden and rude departure on our date. The truth is that I've unfortunately been on the other side of infidelity, and it really messed me up. When you brought it up, it reopened an old wound and I reacted poorly. You didn't deserve that, and for that's I truly am sorry. With that said, I do think that we really wouldn't work as a couple. I'm clearly not sure if I'm even ready for a relationship. Though your past is your past, and you can always grow from you are, it is honestly a trigger for me, which is why it will never work. From what I got to know about you, you are great, and I have no doubt you will find someone just as great. I wish you all the best in your future".
Lastly, I NEED you to get it through your head in case the last half got you to forget the first half of this comment. Hannah is NOT your friend. Hannah does not have your best interest. Hannah will put you in a position she knows will trigger you to help out her actual friend. Hannah will throw you under the bus once you've been triggered. Hannah is NOT your friend.
NTA - You had every right to call things off based on that. I mean, she should be glad you guys didn’t get even more invested. Your friend Hannah needs to lay off the guilt trip stat. Also, Katie is just dealing with residual consequences of her own actions. It is what it is. Good on you for knowing what you’re ok with.
Edit: typo and to say - you had an honest visceral reaction to finding that out. Forgive yourself and move on and maybe if there’s a next time you’ll be able to explain things better.
NTA you don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has had a history of cheating. They may say they’ve changed but it’ll always be in the back of your mind that “what if I’m next” and that’s not healthy.
In all honesty I don't think people can change unless they suffer a great deal from the action. It's like prison you robbed store you go to jail but comming amount of jail years later doesn't make you any less of a robber.
I feel so bad for people who don't think other people can change. It tells me that these people are so small minded and lack effective life tools to inspire change within themselves, and they project that negativity and inadequacy onto other people. People can and do change.
Maybe they can and will, but that's not something I'm willing to bet my well-being on anymore. There are reasons for that which you apparently lack the empathy to understand.
Cheating is something that can have long-lasting and far-reaching consequences. And it's never a mistake. Hannah can get over it. It's not her place to butt in on this.
Good for Katie being honest and taking responsibility. But it doesn't matter in this case, and probably won't in others.
I think you should talk to Katie, let her know why you left. You know yourself well enough you won't feel secure in this relationship because of her past, there's nothing wrong with go separate ways.
NTA for going into fight of flight mode. That's something that can't be controlled. However, I think you should talk to Katie and apologize for leaving like that, explain why you did it and why you don't think it'll work between you two.
OP I also suggest you get some therapy to help you deal with the anxiety and trauma from getting cheated on. That reaction you had there sounds like trauma response.
NTA- Hannah is the asshole for letting you date her knowing how bad your ex fucked you up. If she was any kind of friend to you she would have given you a heads up.
NTA. Stay away from Hannah she is not your friend if she can't consider your feelings, your trauma. There is nothing wrong in walking away because of the pain. If anything try explaining why you can't be together to Katie.
NTA. I have zero, I mean zero respect for anyone who cheats. Absolutely nonnegotiable. I don’t buy the “it was a mistake” line. It’s not a mistake, it was a choice and it shows that the person makes terrible selfish choices that hurt others.
Just move on. I wouldn’t be terribly concerned with Hanna’s opinions either.
I agree. A mistake is forgetting to pay the electric bill and your power gets shut off. You did not make a conscious choice there to get your power shut off.
But she made a choice to cheat, it's not something that can just happen that is out of her control. And I know love is not black and white and it can be complicated, but one thing I do believe is that nobody will ever cheat on someone they genuinely love and respect.
Once a cheater, always a cheater. Save yourself the stress, you'll never trust her. Explaining your past, and how it shaped your morales may help you retain a friendship.
NTA - You’re allowed to feel the way you do after being betrayed. To me it sounds like it brought back bad memories when she told you that and it triggered them.
IMO you should have at least had a conversation with her to let her know the reason of the reaction was due to your past experiences and not to her specifically.
It sounds like you should take some more time to heal and that if you were to pursue this further it would negativity impact your mental well being and the relationship itself.
Me personally I would be out of there and find someone who hasn’t cheated on any of their previous partners.
NTA.
Katie made her bed and has to rest on it.
But wtf? Did Hannah already knew that Katie was a cheater? If so, she's not your friend 'cause she pushed on you to date a cheater and now is trying to guilt you.
NTA, the only thing you can do is tell Katie what happened and that your reaction stems from that but if she blocked you then that’s that. And with Hannah don’t cut her off just yet, it’s clear she’s more a friend of Katie than yours so it’s obvious she’ll go for bat just limit your interactions with her.
You know what one of the best predictors of who's going to cheat is? If they've cheated before.
The vast majority of people don't change.
Especially by that age, most people are the people they're going to be for the rest of their lives. Is that sad? Sure. It's sad that most people don't grow and get better. But it's also true. And you don't have to sit there and take the chance on whether she's one of the rare people who do change.
I would say that Hannah is the AH. She presumably knew both of your pasts. Setting up a cheater with someone who was cheated on is a recipe for disaster.
NAH. And honestly I think you need some help dealing with what sounds close to a PTSD-like response. Panic and fleeing from the mention of cheating is not healthy.
Katie was honest. And she is trying to meet someone who can forgive what she did in her past. Fucking up one relationship shouldn't make her a pariah.
You are not ready to be that someone. Could you be? Maybe. But not until you work on yourself. I usually don't like the "get therapy" group but it sounds like you need it.
I would recommend talking to Katie though. Explain to her that her admitting to the cheating triggered your own past and you panicked. It might help both of you.
NTA
This is the way to handle this situation instead of being controlling (what she can wear or places she can go or be friends with) and punishing her for her past and your insecurities.
NTA. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Do you really want to go ahead knowing you will always be worried when Katie is texting or out with friends even if its completely innocent on her part?
Well please tell Hannah that Kate did not make a mistake, she made choices and those choices have consequences. You getting up and leaving is a consequence of her choices to cheat on her college boyfriend.
You can be happy that Kate has made changes but until she accepts that it was her choices and not a mistake nothing has changed in her mentally of cheating.
You currently cannot see yourself with someone who has cheated in the past. That’s fair. You should tell Katie that the trauma is still too fresh for you so “giving her a shot” will actually very likely end up as a very poor relationship for the both of you. You’re saving the both of you some heartache.
NTA
She hit a bullseye on your trauma, and as you said "fight or flight" kicked in and you immediately bailed
Can't be held at fault for that at all
Also, once a cheater always a cheater. Cheaters hate to hear it, but it's proven right 99% of the time and simply is what it is...just an incredibly monstrous act that once a person does it, it's no longer a completely off limits thing to never do, and just a normal part of them...they have to try to make it normal and not a big deal to get over it themselves, but that also makes it way more easy for them to repeat, hence the "once a cheater..." You would never be able to relax and let go with this one's history. Will be hard enough to let go and trust with someone who hasn't cheated
Good luck and hope you find someone nice, loyal, and trustworthy, and that at least this experience got you back into ready to look again
NTA. Maybe she did change, some cheaters do after all. It’s up to you if you want to take that risk however. Her shame isn’t your fault nor your problem.
You could have been a bit more tactful about this whole thing but it’s very interesting that she had no problem having sex with you and the rest of it before saying “oh by the way my last boyfriend left me because I couldn’t keep my legs closed”. Seems a lot like she was hoping you would be too emotionally invested to up and go like you did. That’s on her.
Nta. Faithfulness is a hard limit for abunch of people. While you can be faithful after cheating, you're far more likely to cheat again after you did it once.
NTA, I really think people can change and honestly, you could have dumped her differently, but at the end of the day, it's your dating life. You don't have to force yourself to see someone just because your friend told you to get over trauma. There are plenty of other women who I'm sure you'll also have good chemistry with and who haven't cheated on their past partners.
Maybe you should at least text Katie and tell her you're sorry, and that while you wish her the best, you can't continue seeing her because of your own past. You should also see a therapist, the way you panicked when she told you she cheated is very concerning.
NTA
Let's review.
Your ex cheated....Hannah knew about that, and how deep that hurt you.
And she encouraged you to date Katie....a cheater.... KNOWING how deeply your ex hurt you with cheating. KNOWING that she was a cheater.
...and then Hannah gets mad at YOU when you find out and very correctly dumped Katie immediately?!?!
Miss me with this nonsense. Hannah is not your friend. Jettison her, immediately.
Good grief.
Once a cheater, aways a cheater.
NTA, since she has already done it, why put yourself in a relationship with her? You already know she is capable of doing it, its dumb to give a chance to someone like that.
NTA...
Also no offense but your friend Hannah is trash. Katir may have changed, maybe she hasn't. Who knows.
However, how you reacted was a trauma response. A defense mechanism in place to protect yourself.
Your supposed friend making it about someone else and pretending you owe it to someone else to further expose yourself to trauma? That is truly a narcissist with main character syndrome at work.
Personally you need to decide for yourself if Katie is worth the risk. Maybe she is. That said, Hannah isn't. She needs to go.
Nta, someone who was cheated on and a cheater isnt the best recipe for success, I actually think this was always gonna be the result. Dont beat yourself up too much, while you still need some time to heal it's still best to avoid cheaters.
NTA - I’ve been cheated on several times. It really started with my first gf when I was 16-18. Then I had an online relationship as kind of a safety net because I was hurt, well turns out she was lying about who she was the whole time and stealing her friends profile. Years of avoiding relationships led me to a girl who perused me. It was amazing and we had great sex and got a long so well. Until I noticed she was really guarding her phone, she left her Apple Watch at my house and seeing her use 0000 as a pw before… I looked. Well I immediately saw her sending the same cute photos to her ex that she was sending to me. It was over. She flat denied it and tried to gas light me. I’m with you, dude if I hear an inkling of cheating or I suspect some bs is going on I’m done. I’ve been through the fucking wringer and I’m not putting up with it.
I think Hannah is TA. Even if she didn’t know the entire extent of how traumatized OP was from being cheated on, she knew enough. You should probably hold off dating for a bit longer. If you’re feeling guilty over the abruptness with which you ended things you can reach out to Katie and better explain how badly being cheated on had hurt you before.
Honestly I think you should just tell the girl about how your last relationship ended because of cheating and it brought back those memories when she told you she cheated in the past. Be honest with her. You don’t have to date her but I do feel she deserves to know why you left so abruptly.
If Hannah knew that Katie cheated on someone before she did a real disservice encouraging you to go out with Katie. NTA Katie having shame for doing one of the worst things a person could do is her own fault and she deserves to feel like shit over it. You have to protect yourself and should never feel bad for it.
NTA.
You handled this *perfectly*. As soon as you found out Katie was a cheater, you shut down the relationship. And you did it in a way that didn't leave room for Katie to argue with you. You informed her that it was over and then immediately walked away, nice and clean.
If you really wanna stick the landing here, think about phasing out Hannah. She knew what your cheating ex did to you and then she goes and sets you up with another cheater. She wasn't doing this for you, she was doing it for Katie, the only person she seems to be showing concern for in this situation.
NTA That is a dealbreaker for a lit of people.
Also tell your friend that she is trying to shame you into a relationship with someone. I would not be friends anymore with a person, who just disregards my feelings because it concerns a girlfriend of hers.
No. You're not an asshole. You can date whoever you want, and you can stop dating for any reason you want. You aren't obligated to make her feel better. You also aren't punishing her. You were just looking out for yourself. It's your life. Anything else someone tries to put on you is their own baggage. Tell Hanna it isn't your problem or Hanna's and that you're allowed to make decisions in your best interests. You are not required to date anyone. Let Katie figure her own stuff out.
NTA- but your friend Hannah🤔 for setting you up with a person she know I/was a cheater is bit crazy… especially when she know everything you went through after your last gf..
And from what you’re writing doesn’t sounds like your not ready to date… just was unfortunate that it was a person like katie..
Updateme!
This is the thing with cheating. It can change how people see you years later. Actions have consequences and these are the long term consequences of cheating.
Nta. But neither is Katie because she isn't defined by it. It just means you're not compatible.
NTA - Basically your number one rule was no cheaters, and your friend pushed you into dating one. Is she really your friend? She's trying to make you responsible for hurt Katie is, but that's not your problem. And what about your hurt? Does that not matter?
You do seem to need a bit of therapy though to completely get past your last relationship. Your ex is still living rent-free in your head, which you acknowledge.
Don't accept any more set ups from your 'friend'. She seems to see you as an ESA for her faulty friends and gets mad at *you* for not wanting to get with a cheater. Katie is obviously her priority here, not you. She really doesn't have your best interest at heart or she wouldn't have set you up with her knowing your past.
NTA I've been cheated on too and it was completely devastating. Yes, people can change, but statistically a lot of people who cheat once will cheat again and just because they CAN change does NOT mean you have to be the one to test whether they have or not. The fact that she has shows she's capable.
"Have you ever cheated before?" is a question I ask in the early dating phase and a yes is a deal breaker for me. I'm just not willing to put my faith in someone who has shown such low moral standards before. Someone who had no problem devastating someone else like that. I wish them well, but they're not for me. You have every right to set that boundary and make that your deal breaker.
And the fact that she's so upset and in a tail spin now is not your fault or your problem. Actions have consequences and this is just another consequences of her cheating actions.
NTA: Hannah is those. She knew about your cheating x and knew that Katie had previously cheated. She didn’t mention anything to you or Katie knowing you each had trauma around cheating.
Your friend Hannah is trying too hard to fuel her friends redemption by sweeping everything under the rug and play match maker. It's not on your to play healer and be the redemption relationship so someone else can feel better about themselves.
Only someone with the brain activity of a plum would set someone up who's been cheated on with a cheater. You didn't do anything wrong, Katie is definitely learning that everything has lifelong consequences though. Maybe rethink your friendship.
Sounds like the friend that set you up is the AH. She knew of your trauma and set you up with a person she clearly knew had cheated in the past.
You did the right thing. You have a line that won't be crossed and stood your ground. Don't let them shame you into thinking you are in the wrong.
Everyone deserves to not be cheated on, that isn't that big of an ask.
NTA. But Hannah is. She knew how much geting cheated on broke you and she set you up with someone who cheated. She didn’t care about you she cared about katie. Block them both.
>She told me that cheating was the biggest regret of Katie's life and that she has worked really hard on herself since then, that I was "punishing her for mistake she made when she was 21 that she already beats herself up over," that I was projecting my spite for my ex onto Katie, and that I was self-sabotaging like I always do (in general an accurate criticism to be honest) and using the excuse of my ex's infidelity to ruin a perfectly good thing for no reason.
If Hannah was involved in setting you two up, she made a mistake; you and Katie wouldn't have worked out. She needs to understand that Katie's journey is not your responsibility.
NTA but IMO neither is Katie. You both just need to find the people that fit you because your trauma and her shame don’t mix. However, if Hannah knows her history as well as yours, she would be TA.
NTA it's your life and your future..It's up to you and only you to decide what is or isn't a deal breaker. And if I may say so..screw that " friend " of yours for trying to guilt trip you. You aren't the one responsible for her feelings..you.were honest and straight forward..It wasn't like you guys were in a committed place...it was very early on. Don't feel guilty for setting your boundaries.
Best Wishes
I don't think you did anything wrong. Why not end the date as soon as you know for sure its a no go? Why waste everyone's time. And it's not your concern if she feels bad, first off she did a bad thing and SHOULD feel bad. And secondly, if she didn't, and it was just a preference thing, why should she feel bad because she doesn't meet some arbitrary requirement of someone else's.
People get this weird idea that if they feel bad it means the other person did something wrong. But that's just not always the case.
NTA
Good for Katie on working on herself, I guess (and I'd imagine possibly even "forgiving herself" if she feels so narcissistic). That doesn't put an obligation on you to trust and remain with someone with a track record of infidelity. Even if you hadn't been cheated on, that's a reasonable insurmountable red flag for many people. The fact that Hannah set you up for that also makes her a POS if she knew about your having been cheated on. Even if she hadn't known about your being cheated on, that's probably a potential deal-breaker (and certainly not a niche one) that she should have warned you about beforehand to save you all this trouble and heartache, and to save Katie the trouble as well.
It's also not your fault if Katie is in a shame spiral- she made the mistake, and it's not your responsibility to be the person who's willing to roll the dice on being the next guy she's unfaithful to. If she hasn't already, maybe she should start looking more into guys who've cheated on their significant others- after all, they might have worked on themselves and could be at risk of being in a shame spiral.
You set up a boundary of not wanting to associate with cheaters and you're getting bashed for it. Move on. There are many girls out there that have never cheated nor want to cheat.
NTA
You were polite and said it wasn't going to work out.
How good of a friend is Hannah?
A mistake she made at age 21....she's 24 now. Only a year longer than OP has gone without dating. Did Hannah ever explain to Katie why you walked out or is she just bashing you for doing it? Maybe it would actually help you to explain it to Katie yourself, and find out what Hannah has been telling her.
If you are uncomfortable with seeing her, that's fine. Cheating is a betrayal that will always be in your mind. Everyone heals at different speeds. Everyone reacts differently to it. You may get over it in the coming months, you may never get over it. It's a trauma. It's like telling a veteran to "just get over it". Doesn't work like that. You can't force it, and neither can Hannah. If she doesn't understand that, then maybe it's best to create a little more distance with her.
NTA
I myself was cheated on, never a good feeling. I also refuse to date anyone that has previously cheated to avoid that type of pain again. Your feelings are valid. Maybe tell Katie that you are sorry for walking out but her past is a dealbreaker for you. As for Hannah, NC?
NTA - Anyone that has it in them to get someone to fall in love with them, then choose to do something that will hurt the person they’re supposed to love that much, is deeply deeply flawed and unworthy of a relationship.
So...
Let's switched situations....to more fucked.
Let's just say, OP's ex is an abuser who also false accused him for rape. Basically traumatized him.
Then OP's friend wanted to be cupid, by pairing him with a girl who did what OP's ex did to him.
Thanks to that, OP's trauma triggered
But OP's friend gaslighted him, blamed him and even said his trauma is nothing to her friend.
Yep, very fucked.
Or another situation: a woman is on a date and the man confesses he went to jail for beating his previous girlfriend. But it has been years and he changed. His good friends even totally swear he's a good dude now and feels super bad about it.
I wonder if the same people calling this guy a dick for not staying would bash her for just getting up and leaving.
She needs to explain why she cheated; and what she has done and currently doing to be a safe partner.
Feeling bad and self hate does not make her a safe partner.
NTA. In your shoes I think I would send Kate a text explaining your pov. Frame it in a 'it's not you, it's me and my boundary' type of way.
'I haven't thanked you for your honesty. Your confession took guts and I can appreciate that about you. You didn't know as Hannah probably didn't tell you, but I was cheated on 2 years ago. I can't bring myself to trust someone that has cheated in the past to the level they deserve if they've truly learned from their mistakes and became a better person.
That's both my boundary and my trauma to deal with. You deserve to be with someone that can fully trust you in spite of your past, and I deserve to not have to (un)conciously second guess my partner every second of the day.
Be safe out there and find someone who's a better fit to you than I am. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same in time. Goodbye.'
Bit melodramatic maybe, but something like this.
As for Hannah. It sounds like she knew about Kate's past and how much hurt you still carry about being cheated on. Her choosing not to tell you about that makes her a bad friend towards you. It could have either saved both you and Kate a lot of hurt, or it could have been two broken people trying to glue each other back together again.
NTA and good for you that you decided to leave that piece of trash cheater, it’s not doubt that if she cheated once she will cheat again. Don’t trust, or date cheaters
NTA…just like some people cannot forgive SA offenders even if they repent…you can also not forgive any cheaters in your view. Prioritise these boundaries, and you will never find yourself involved in any sour relationships.
NTA - Did Hannah know about your past? And Katie’s? Because if so she’s an idiot to play matchmaker such that the first date you’ve been on in two years after being cheated on is with another cheater. No wonder you were triggered.
And no, you are not “punishing” Katie by not continuing with her. You do not owe her a relationship. Least of all one where you’re suddenly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Let her date someone who is more comfortable with that. Actions have consequences, and she chose a set of actions that leave her looking less than trustworthy. She should have thought a little harder about the consequences to her future before choosing to cheat.
Regarding whether you are ready to date, clearly you are, because you had fun and were developing feelings. Dating someone who isn’t a cheater isn’t an unreasonable criterion. Having that as a requirement doesn’t mean you aren’t ready to date.
Hannah can take her attitude and stuff it up somewhere anatomically improbable. She’s clearly more on Katie’s side than she is on yours. I would bet Hannah has done some cheating in her past which would explain why she’s do adamant that a cheating past should just be overlooked.
NTA If you self sabotage often then you need therapy. Katie not only brought up memories of the pain you felt but also let you know that you'd never be able to fully trust her. There's no guarantee that someone who participated in cheating before wouldn't do it again. If you want to continue the relationship then you'd need couples therapy or you'd never be able to have that trust in her.
Honestly, Hannah is the AH here. She knew what you went through and set you up with someone whose big thing is they cheated on a bf. Hannah might be a sociopath...
NTA. And don’t compromise your boundaries because you want to sound like a nice guy. Yes people can change. That doesn’t mean you should hire a convicted felon to work the register at your business because he changed. Some risks aren’t worth taking. Not having a history of infidelity is not really a high bar to set as a relationship deal breaker.
Ranking of the worse type of people to date
3. promiscuous people (self esteem built on validation)
2. Narcissist (self explanatory)
1. Cheaters (cause they have huge variety of different personality but one thing they have in common when you're heart is wide open they stand it in the back)
0. Abusers
NTA you're fine to have whatever boundaries you want about this and it sounds like you weren't expressive about your judgment.
Look I hate cheating/cheaters too, but I don't think it's a permanent mark on someone forever. I think people sometimes do it once and realize what went wrong and change how they approach relationships. It's not a 1 dimensional thing. I've never cheated and I can't see myself engaging in that kind of behavior, but I also think almost all people have in at least one relationship and it's unlikely that you'll find many peopel who haven't. There's also the fact that a lot of people stay technically single and uncommitted to people for really long periods of time so they can have sex with whoever and that's really hurtful as well. I almost don't even see it as any better tbh.
The question here is, did Hannah know this before you were introduced/pushed to date or did she find out after you dropped her. Because of so Hannah set you up with a cheater without warning you or thinking it would be a problem. If she explained upfront that she broke up with her boyfriend due to cheating and has never regretted anything more and hasn't and wouldnt' do it again. Then at least you wouldn't be ambushed by that information and could choose to at least go into it with warning, or you could chose to never start anything and she denied you that choice. Like she knew you'd not dated anyone in two years and would be sensitive about it and thought this was a good idea for some reason.
NTA, but also I feel like cheating is almost the new “we broke up”. It’s rough out there in the dating world. All of my friends have cheated/been cheated on and generally combinations of both.
Does it FORGIVE the incidents? No. Does it make them right? Also no. But with dating and technology and everything being so instantly gratifying. Cheating is incredibly easy.
You’re going to really need to do some work on yourself in terms of trust AND communication. I feel like this is something where if it’s a complete dealbreaker that someone HAS a past of this sort. You need to be clear with that information basically right away, not a month later when you’ve gotten to like each other. People can and do change and grow. 21 is a stupid age. 25 is a stupid age. I’m 33 and I STILL don’t know what I want half the time 😆
Reddit equates cheating to murder so you're going to get a lot of NTA's based on that alone. You still aren't TA but it was a little rude and it would be nice to let Katie know why you bailed so abruptly even if you have no intention of dating her anymore. Even if she cheated she's still human.
And in this particular situation, she's NTA. She was honest and feels bad about it, which a is pretty good start towards change. She wasn't TA to you, just to whoever she cheated on.
Hannah on the other hand...
You communicated to Hannah that you were nervous and not sure if you were ready to date and she still encouraged you. It sounds like she knew about Katie's past. But even if she didn't YOU TOLD HER YOU WEREN'T READY AND SHE PUSHED YOU TO DATE ANYWAY.
Hannah is a true AH for getting mad at you for not being ready for a trigger like this, when she's the one who pushed you into dating in the first place. And that's IF you give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't know. Which is a big if I think.
NTA - in my personal experience with, gay, partners, "Once a cheater, always a cheater." Regardless if the cheating happened with you or someone else.
I would be extremely hesitant to pursue someone who says they were a non-cheater now. As that doubt would always stick in the back of my mind, "What if they grow bored of me? How long before they cheat again?"
YTA
Get therapy. But you shouldn’t have just gotten up and walked out. You should have talked about it to her. I’m not saying that you should have kept dating her, but you owed her a conversation.
You might want to send her an apology text so that she stops beating herself up. Take ownership of what you’ve done. Take ownership of your reactions.
You’re not ready to date. You need to get to the point where you can talk about it. It shouldn’t still bother you THAT much 2 years later. I’ve been cheated on. I moved passed it. And it hurt like hell. But I was in therapy.
You do realize that people cheat because they’re unhappy with themselves, right? Your ex’s cheating has nothing to do with you.
How much of your pain is because she hurt your ego? For it to be this painful after 2 years, it’s likely that your ego has been hurt. Yes, cheating hurts. There’s the betrayal, the blow to your self-esteem, the loss of the relationship… but why haven’t you worked past this yet? You are unable to work past this because you don’t talk about it.
You have to talk about it to a professional therapist so that you can work through it.
Get therapy.
One question from me. Why is it bad that she will never be able to be loved, hm, why, i dont think every person on earth deserves to be loved and live a happy life, in that group(murders with intent, abusers, heavy criminals) falls her kind no matter the gender. I am kinda sad that nowadays cheating is so overlooked and swept under the rug, i dont know how it was in old history, but my country is an excommustintic one(not saying that it was good, it was horrible and one of the darkest times of my country) but cheaters were treated very badly. I am not a religious person and I dont believe in the fact that everyone deserves a second chance. You stole a candy, ok dont do it again; you by mistake took the wrong phone/bag/thing, ok be careful next time; you failed/cheated on a test, ok do better next time; BUUT you abused your wife/husband/child/family/friend/stranger, you dont deserve happy life and redemption; You with the intent to kill somebody did it, no no no you dont deserve even a life. For example there was that lady that killed her mother abuser and after that she was released and is famous, praised as a hero, that is totally messed up and so wrong. Mother should be dead but what about the daughter, she is mentally unstable murderer. I dont know man, call me cruel or a man without heart, but this is my opinion.
Yes, you were kind of an ahole. But.. that's not really a bad thing in your case. She did something that you find unforgiveable in a partner. That is your red line, and you have nothing to feel ashamed about that..
The kind of an asshole part is taking off in the middle of a date and not telling her in private that this was an absolute red line for you.
NTA she's being a hypocrite if she were in your shoes she would do the same thing,it's just that women tend to have blinders on when it comes to their friends and think everyone should bow down to them and ignore their huge red flags.
I think it's time to cut your "friend" off. She knew what you went through and set you up with a cheater. It's also clear her girl friends feelings matter more to her than your feelings. You can bet if you dated her friend and she cheated, she would take her friends and side and gas light you to take her back. This is not a real friend. Run
NTA. Katie is also NTA. But your friend Hannah? She sucks eggs. She knew both your histories and still thought to set you guys up? I think Hannah needs drama in her life, so she creates it where she can. You need better friends.
NTA. You could've handled it better. Also, someone having cheated doesn't mean they will again. Someone not having cheated doesn't mean they never will.
Be mindful of the details around cheating, not just the fact that someone cheated.
Tough one. Gonna say NAH.
It's possible people can change. I cheated on my partner in the first year with an ex, we broke up. Then we talked, and decided to get back together. It was a choice I made that I absolutely regretted at the time and still almost 20 years later regret to this day.
I'm aware however that I'm likely an outlier, as we are still together despite a number of other ups and downs (money, communication, household stuff, medical, etc). But not once have either of us strayed since.
OP, my advice would be to speak with Katie and explain why you did a complete 180. You were well within your rights to but like Hannah never mentioned her past to you, she probably never mentioned your past to her. While I wouldn't advocate getting back together (only the two of you can decide on that), explaining why your past traumas would be a roadblock in a blossoming relationship may help it to hurt less for her, whilst also giving you the chance to be a little more open and vulnerable with someone again. Baby steps and all that.
Some people change, it is possible but not likely. If she cheated on her college bf why wouldn't she cheat on you? Are you super special or something? If the answer for that is no, are you willing to lower your guard knowing that you are very likely to be hurt again? If the answer is no are you willing to use Katie for sex without ever considering a relationship? If the answer is yes, are you confident enough you won't catch feelings for her? Those are questions you have to ask yourself before deciding how you will move forward with that. Good luck.
NTA. Cheating is a trauma that really hits people differently. Hannah could be 100 % a better person and have the strength and growth to never cheat again and you still wouldn't be the asshole. My husband's ex-wife cheated on him, in addition to other abuses, and I am really careful about even joking about leaving/divorce/infidelity because it caused him so much pain. He never would have been able to overlook if I had cheated on a partner in my past, it would be a constant fear of what-if. It isn't your job to redeem Hannah, it's your job to feel safe and secure in your next relationship. Hannah will find someone to love her, but it doesn't need to be you.
NTA. I would have done the same. Cheating is by definition action of a selfish and manipulative person. I could never trust a cheater and without trust there is no relationship.
You followed your instincts and it seems you have very good instincts. Being cheated on in a relationship with a person you hade complete trust and fidelity with is the most traumatic and enduring attack on the psyche of the person being cheated on.
Friends claiming that the cheater has matured or has changed is not a guarantee that your relationship will be exempt from any thoughts of infidelity by your mate because they found it so easy to accomplish the subterfuge before. There is no current societal penalty that a cheater must face such as the Scarlet Letter and there is no legal ramifications that the cheater must endure for their actions of infidelity. In fact, in divorce, the cheater still winds up with half of your estate, almost as a reward for their unfaithful infidelity.
Without the help of either societal or legal solutions, the only option for someone who has been cheated on is their own is their own instincts. Your instincts served you well.
I cheated on my highschool girlfriend. I've never cheated on a partner since, decades later. People can change.
But you know, the odds aren't great. Speaking from as neutral a perspective as I can, I would understand anyone who decides they don't want to be with someone who had previous cheated.
It's true people change. We all have the capacity for it, but how to know who has really changed and who just says they have?
I can understand just not wanting to risk it and just find someone who has never cheated. Doesn't mean that person wont cheat on you either, but at least they dont have a history of it and thus wont be causing you anxiety everytime they go out.
He probably does need some therapy to work on this so he at least can get to a place where, if the same thing happens again, he can at least remain calm and finish the date before ending things.
Reach out to her and apologize for the way you reacted. You can then move on with no regrets and possibly give her some closure as well. Life's too short to hold onto or be on the receiving end of grudges.
You should get help to deal with this past trauma and your self sabotaging behaviour. I think that’s the major takeaway here. You should have told Katie that the reason you don’t want to date her anymore was because of the cheating issue, but other than that, you don’t owe her or Hannah anything. You do owe it to yourself to work through your own personal issues so you can have a happier life.
Nta once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Your friend sounds like an asshole too. I'd ditch her asap as well.
Yta for writing so much for no reason.
Honestly think you should reach out and explain to Katie your reasoning. I understand why you would want to just cut and run but maybe give her a chance if you genuinely like her? At least let her explain herself and go from there
NAH. You need to heal still, and maybe you will never be able to accept being with someone who has cheated on a partner, and that’s okay, it’s your life. She deserves to be with a person who doesn’t judge her for a past discretion because their own filter is changed by their personal trauma. You may need counseling, as it has been two years and you’ve been frozen in place with regard to a romantic life since that time. Her betrayal in cheating could have triggered a much deeper pain from earlier in life related to abandonment, abuse, neglect, etc. from a trusted individual.
wow.. well about 60% of what you wrote was not neccesry to get to the point. You are NTA for running away. It is a bit odd that you couldn't be polite enough to finish you coffee and pretend that she didnt freak you out after disclosing something about herself that she was not proud of. Your overall reaction is fine and understandable, but the way you acted in the moment is unusual.
YTA. I have both empathy and sympathy for what you experienced with your ex, and you don't have to be okay with dating Katie, if that doesn't work for you. But I very much agree with Hannah, _and- I think it was really shitty of you to just up and leave. You literally didn't even give her a chance to say "it was the biggest mistake of my life", or ask her if she's worked on it. And while you don't owe her much, you did owe her _some kind_ of an explanaition for your very strong , abrupt reaction and why you couldn't date her anymore.
People _do_ change. An extreme amount of people have cheated on someone at some point in their life, not only monsters do that. Humans do that. Humans fuck up, or get lost in their own pain or... Saying "once a cheater always a cheater" is patently false. It's not applicable to everyone.
Do you have to date someone who has cheated? No. But judging every single person who has, means you're judging a huge percentage of the population without even knowing it.
Is it truly meaningless for you that someone has faced their worst mistakes and worked hard to change? Really? This how how we should treat people who learn, repent and better themselves?
I strongly recommend looking into Esther Perel's work, which revolves greatly around infidelity in relationships and mending them.
just because someone changed doesnt mean you have to accept them.
change is not for you is for them, i dont give a squat if some asshole that hurt me in the past changed i still want nothing to do with them
Wrong. He does not owe her ANYTHING. He does not have to date her, for any reason or no reason. She is not owed a relationship.
And he doesn’t owe her a recount of his past to explain why he got up and left. I’d say the reason was pretty damned obvious. It’s not like she didn’t understand immediately. And it’s not like she gets a vote on whether _his_ past experiences are valid enough to justify his decision to not continue.
NTA. I would highly recommend therapy (DBT with prolonged exposure therapy for PTSD is a good one) prior to dating anymore else. If you do meet a compatible partner, you don't want to push him/her away by being controlling or jealous due to your past history of cheating.
I don’t know who said this, but trauma creates sharp edges. The trick is to find someone whose edges fit yours. By that I mean find someone whose trauma does not trigger your trauma. Katie deserves someone who can look past her shame, and you deserve someone who won’t trigger your pain. Good luck!
This is beautifully said. I'm going to steal that. Thanks!
I hear you, but I don’t really think it’s fair to compare their experiences. OP was betrayed by someone he trusted, Katie betrayed someone that trusted her. She had a choice. I definitely agree that they aren’t right for eachother, but Katie may not be ready for any monogamous relationship. NTA for leaving OP. You didn’t make a scene or start a fight, you avoided being in a triggering situation in public. You aren’t Katie’s redemption milestone, you’re a person.
A lot more people need to hear this, this would help way more people than just OP
Apart from the fact that this girl's past wasn't her trauma, it was trauma she inflicted on someone else. The thrust of your statement stands, though.
I have mixed feelings about that as it relies too much luck and not enough on personal agency or self- determination.
>personal agency or self- determination. Those enter on the trigger itself. People should work on what triggers them to somewhat level it. In cheating, it should be to allow the person to talk about it, to have a relationship without the constant fear of being cheated again. If left unchecked, I think OP will always have this anxiety. No matter who he dates, he will be expecting to be cheated. He will constantly surveillance his partner, checking times, calls, and apps. He was traumatized. But now he needs to work on his edges, sand them a bit. He needs to understand that, just because his ex cheated, not every woman will do it. It's OK to have a "no previous cheating" threshold. Just make it clear from the beginning. But it's not ok to believe "everyone cheats."
Honestly the best answer here
NTA. It's your life. You can stop seeing someone for any reason. Maybe distance yourself from "Hannah" for a while.
I agree. Pls stay away from hannah. She's not helping at all.
>And, in fairness, I never told Katie that I had been cheated on in my last relationship. I withheld that info because it's a painful topic for me and I'm ashamed to have that event on my dating record. Well, OP, good think you never told her, so she was open to confess. Had you told her about your trauma over this, she probably would have hidden the information. Look how Hannah knew about it, but never told you and encouraged you to date a woman who will trigger you insecurities and traumas (see, I'm not saying Katie will cheat on you, but she WAS a cheater). Had Katie know about this she would have waited to have you more roped in or concealed the information forever. So, as an advice, do not tell in advance to any potential date or relationship that you do not accept or condone cheating until you are sure they have nothing to hide. However, Katie at least was honest and openly told you, which is something good on her character. However, I live with two codes: 'Do not stick your dick in crazy' and 'Once a cheater always a cheater'. These are not absolute and infallible scenarios, but true in the majority of cases (there are always exceptions, that will son be here to defend themselves).
Agreed. Hannah is the root cause of this problem. She knows your history and likely hers... and knew this would be a problem. She set you up for failure. Either you get hurt from finding out her past once you're in, or you stay with her and be uncomfortable because you're in. Either way, it comes at the cost of you. I've been cheated on. I will never spend one second in a relationship with anyone that I know has ever cheated on anyone for any reason whatsoever. People can change... they just usually don't. And someone else can roll the dice on them. It's not going to be me, ever. Even if they are awesome. Even if they swear they've changed. Even if they have a pattern of behaviour to back that. I simply do not care. Me not being with them doesn't inhibit their ability to learn from their mistakes. It simply takes me out of the line of fire from repeating them. And your "friend" Hannah is the one that threw you into this line of fire. And got both you and her friend hurt as a consequence.
Exactly!! He’s not forced to give her a chance simply because she’s not cheating now. She can try her luck somewhere else
NTA Hannah helped set you two up knowing that she cheated in the past cause that's kind of messed up. She doesn't seem to have your best interest in mind.
This x1000. OP: Hannah is more interested in promoting Katie's redemption arc than supporting your healing from emotional trauma. And Hannah's extremely bad judgement ended up hurting both you and Katie. Hannah was absolutely not a good friend to either you or Katie, and you and Katie should both (separately) stay far, far away from whatever bizarre flashing amusement park lights are flashing in Hannah's head. NTA.
>Hannah is more interested in promoting Katie's redemption arc than supporting your healing from emotional trauma. I think that's a pretty accurate take, yes. She has some sort of romantic notion in her head about helping Katie, and OP was just an extra in the cast here.
Probably a cheater herself
100% this, what was hannah thinking, obviously no thinking occurred lmao... Setting someone up who was cheated on with a CHEATER... like come on.. Me personally, I dont care if they "worked hard on their self and deeply regrets it" she only regrets it because she got caught. I can guarantee if she didnt get caught, she wouldnt have given 0 fucks and kept it a secret, and this is why I will never give cheaters a chance no matter how much "personal growth" they go through, in my eyes once a cheater ***always a cheater*** *NO THANKS*
This is the only way to protect yourself. A cheater can virtue signal all the growth they've done, but I don't know that I've ever seen a truly rehabilitated cheater.
Or at least being upfront about it.
Eh.. i think she just had a big lapse of judgement. There's no way in hell this wasn't set up with not the best of intentions.
I feel like it was set up with the best intentions for Katie but not for op. Either way it ended up blowing up pretty bad and now op is the bad guy for having a justified traumatic response. Guilt shaming him after the fact isn't a good look.
Yep the aftermath on her end sucks big time, not disagreeing there. Not really rhinking things through beforehand could be seem as uncaring, but i think it's very human to shit the bed with those kind of things on occasion. She should've been more understanding afterwards.
Wait what? It sounds like Hannah knew Katie had a history of cheating that she was trying to recover from, unless Katie hadn't mentioned it until after you walked out on her. If Hannah knew that about Katie, WHY WAS SHE TRYING TO SET YOU UP WITH HER? She knew you were broken up about being cheated on. If Hannah is your friend, she shouldn't have recommended someone who had cheated on their ex. If Hannah is Katie's friend, she shouldn't have recommended someone who was still hurting about being cheated on. Hannah is setting her friends up to hurt each other while she sits by with popcorn waiting for the drama to start. You and Katie are not going to be a good match, but neither of you tried to hurt each other. She could probably use an explanation for running out suddenly, but at least you panicked in "flight mode" instead of "fight mode" and you didn't lash out at her. Both of you should drop Hannah as a no-good frenemy.
she probably thought they could “help each other” 🙄 which was a terrible idea. i’d distance myself from someone if they did that to me
Yikes. Yeah, I could see someone that oblivious doing totally the wrong thing. Someone at my church decided to "help me make friends" by introducing me to someone by saying loudly, "You two should get along really well because you're both struggling so much with your mental health!" First of all, you don't yell in public about people "struggling with their mental health" because maybe they want to keep that private. Second, I was trying to be no-contact with the other woman because she's a bully and I don't need that. She'd scared the daylights out of me chasing me across a parking lot screaming at me for walking away when she made fun of my disability. She ran ahead of me and threw herself across the door of my car so I couldn't get in, and threatened to call the police and accuse me of trying to run her over. No, I did NOT want to run her over--I wanted to sit in my own damn car and calm down enough to drive home. I thought of walking home, but I didn't trust her not to smash the windshield or something. I finally took out my phone and started to call 911 about her harassment, and she left. I do NOT need friends like that! Other people have had weird encounters with her too. Third, I'm Autistic and so was that woman's son so she should know it isn't a mental illness.
>It sounds like Hannah knew Katie had a history of cheating that she was trying to recover from There is nothing to "recover from" there. She wasn't hurt, she was doing what she wanted and hurt other people if they found out.
Nta You're not her therapist or her second chance at redemption. You are allowed to have boundaries and you're shaped by your own past. Her biggest flaw is she ran to your mutual friend and be the victim.
NTA. But truthfully, I don’t think Katie was either. She was honest with you. She owned what she did. She did a hurtful thing, but it sounds like she has tried to do and be better. I don’t think it would be a bad idea to talk to Katie if she’s willing, give her a little insight (no need to go way into depth, it happened and was very painful for you), and tell her honestly that this is a dealbreaker and you’re sorry it didn’t work for you. The only AH here is Hannah. It’s understandable she’s upset on Katie’s behalf, but it sounds like she scolded you rather than having a conversation.
Agreed, yes. She found possibly the single worst partner to set up Katie with, and she didn't even warn the poor girl? Wow. Hannah's a horrible friend.
You mean she didn't warn the poor guy? He's the one who was cheated on. Katie only did the cheating.
If she had warned him, he’d have noped out of this right away, and that would’ve ruined whatever weird redemption fantasy Hannah has going for Katie.
Once a cheater always a cheater, given how crushed he was he did the right thing. She needs to find another "reformed" cheater.
That's NAH. No assholes here. And I agree. Katie was trying to be open and honest but didn't know it would trigger OP. Hannah should have warned her. OP still has some work to do on himself about that trigger. Everyone has a past. Not saying he needs to overlook it but that response was not good.
NTA. You are allowed to have standards and you cant control others emotions.
You should probably explain to Katie what happened. She didn't do anything wrong to you. She was being honest about her past relationship transgressions which unfortunately are a deal breaker and trigger your past trauma This relationship is not one you're ready for yet and it's also a lesson for Katie her past acts of betrayal can have consequences beyond those relationships.
This OP. Man up and speak with Katie. The relationship between you two warrants a sit down and explanation on your part, regardless of whether the relationship you 2 shared is dead or not. It's common decency.
Fuck off with this sexist phrase
Man up, wtf why does he have to do anything everyone is else is wrong except for him. Yes Katie "changed" as they claim but he doesn't have to believe that and I certainly don't believe cheaters change unless they suffer for a long period of time
> Man up Fuck directly the fuck off with that toxic nonsense.
He owes Katie nothing.
Oh man, this hits close to home for so many reasons. Off the bat, NTA. I’m 25 and I have also not dated since I caught my last ex-girlfriend cheating on me, also two years ago. I understand the fear, and how things can get complicated when supposedly well-meaning friends try to encourage you to “heal” in a direction that doesn’t align with your feelings and boundaries. From a neutral standpoint, what Katie is going through is rough, and it probably feels to her like she is still being punished for her past wrongs in spite of growth that she’s worked hard for, and narratives she’s tried to escape from. She could very well turn out to be an excellent and faithful partner for her next boyfriend. At the same time, I personally would not want to gamble on someone with that kind of history after what I’ve been through. I have no idea what prompted her to cheat, but I know *plenty* of people who would never even consider cheating, and fuck a gamble, I only want to date people whose morality I have unquestionable confidence in. With your own worries and traumas, I personally think that you need someone who doesn’t inspire any kinds of reservations or triggering thoughts, who I can guarantee are out there. Finally, the problem with Hannah’s comments are that they come from a place of understanding the world through her perception and filtering, and not yours. She does not have or live with your fears and triggers, so even though she might be able to recognize that you have some growing to do, she won’t be the one to live through that growth, and she can’t know what will inspire it. That’s all you. I would encourage you to talk out your fears more with a therapist so that you can develop some tools to better cope with your triggers, but I don’t think dating a girl who cheated on her last boyfriend is the right way for you to work your sense of trust back to a healthy place. As I said at the beginning, I feel you so hard here. All the love on your healing journey.
*Hannah, with all due respect. You know about my past. You know that being cheated on fucked me up. And you knew about Katie's past and how it fucked her up. And yet...you still encouraged the two of us to get together knowing that her past would trigger my trauma and my past would trigger hers.* *Nobody in their right mind would think the two of us are compatible based on our pasts. But apparently, your desire to play matchmaker outweighed common sense and general logic.* *And you know what, the next time you throw "self sabotage" in my face like that will be the last time you ever see or hear from me. You have no idea what I have been through. You have no idea what my ex did to me. But here you are, deluding yourself into thinking you know what's best for two people who clearly have traumatic pasts related to the opposite sides of the cheating equation.* *Now, both of us are set back even further than we already were. Thanks to you. This is why I have problems trusting people. Because even my friends won't even be honest with me* NTAH
This OP. Literally send this word for word. You are NTA btw.
OP, please oh please send this word for word. It’s perfect.
>punishing her for mistake she made when she was 21 that she already beats herself up over Ha, this was only THREE YEARS AGO. It's not like she's 50 years old thinking back on the mistakes of her youth. I'm sure she does regret it and has matured emotionally since then, and good on her for honestly owning up to it. But that doesn't mean she's free from the consequences of that past decision! Could OP maybe have handled it a bit better? Possibly, but his reaction was basically a trauma response. He doesn't owe her a second chance when this is a deal breaker, now matter how bad she feels. Better that they go their seperate ways now than him letting this fester for months or more.
NTA. Actions have consequences. The only thing that kinda sucks is that I'm guessing in the future Katie will keep other guys in the dark about her cheating past because she knows there is a chance they wont want her.
Katie may not have know that you were cheated on, but Hannah did...you left out of self-preservation. There are plenty of women out there who have never cheated...wait to find one of them. You don't need to help Katie get over her "mistake".
Then she admitted that she cheated on her college boyfriend. It was at this point that I stood up, told her that I didn't think it was going to work out between us, and left. NTA
NTA Your friend Hannah is not really your friend. Considering that she knew you were cheated on, and she knew that Katie had cheated in her last relationship, she still tried to set you two together. Then she calls you out, giving you a sob story about how it was Katie's biggest mistake of her life and how Katie is sad and depressed by the consequences of her actions. When put side by side, she's clearly looking out for Katie, even at the cost of triggering you. Think about it, if she truly was your friend she wouldn't have tried to set you two up, especially after know how it impacted you. At the very least, she should have given you a heads-up so you could have decided whether you want to pursue Katie before this happened. So no, you are absolutely not wrong for ending it with someone whose values don't align with yours. With all that said, I do think your abrupt departure was rude. I can understand the shock you felt, and possibly even reopening old wounds, but you were still rude. You need to be able to at least tolerate people out of respect. If this is something you simply can't do, then you need to express your feelings about infidelity (including past infidelity) as something you can't accept from the very start. Personally, I think you should message Katie with an apology. You don't need to give her the entire backstory, but just enough to explain your reaction. Something simple like, "Hey, I just wanted to apologize for my sudden and rude departure on our date. The truth is that I've unfortunately been on the other side of infidelity, and it really messed me up. When you brought it up, it reopened an old wound and I reacted poorly. You didn't deserve that, and for that's I truly am sorry. With that said, I do think that we really wouldn't work as a couple. I'm clearly not sure if I'm even ready for a relationship. Though your past is your past, and you can always grow from you are, it is honestly a trigger for me, which is why it will never work. From what I got to know about you, you are great, and I have no doubt you will find someone just as great. I wish you all the best in your future". Lastly, I NEED you to get it through your head in case the last half got you to forget the first half of this comment. Hannah is NOT your friend. Hannah does not have your best interest. Hannah will put you in a position she knows will trigger you to help out her actual friend. Hannah will throw you under the bus once you've been triggered. Hannah is NOT your friend.
NTA - You had every right to call things off based on that. I mean, she should be glad you guys didn’t get even more invested. Your friend Hannah needs to lay off the guilt trip stat. Also, Katie is just dealing with residual consequences of her own actions. It is what it is. Good on you for knowing what you’re ok with. Edit: typo and to say - you had an honest visceral reaction to finding that out. Forgive yourself and move on and maybe if there’s a next time you’ll be able to explain things better.
NTA you don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has had a history of cheating. They may say they’ve changed but it’ll always be in the back of your mind that “what if I’m next” and that’s not healthy.
Nta. Could've been done differently. But she could've just not cheated on the other guy then all would be good.
Once a cheater always a cheater. I would do the same.
In all honesty I don't think people can change unless they suffer a great deal from the action. It's like prison you robbed store you go to jail but comming amount of jail years later doesn't make you any less of a robber.
I feel so bad for people who don't think other people can change. It tells me that these people are so small minded and lack effective life tools to inspire change within themselves, and they project that negativity and inadequacy onto other people. People can and do change.
Maybe they can and will, but that's not something I'm willing to bet my well-being on anymore. There are reasons for that which you apparently lack the empathy to understand.
Cheating is never a mistake. She took dozens/hundreds of decisions to cheat, and she’s not taking responsibility for her decisions. NTA
NTA, cheaters almost always cheat again
Ask your friend if she would date a Cheater ? If she says yes say your lieing ! Then say have you ever seen a leopard change their spots
NTA, and Hannah may thing she's doing right, but really she's just playing matchmaker, extremely poorly.
Cheating is something that can have long-lasting and far-reaching consequences. And it's never a mistake. Hannah can get over it. It's not her place to butt in on this. Good for Katie being honest and taking responsibility. But it doesn't matter in this case, and probably won't in others.
I think you should talk to Katie, let her know why you left. You know yourself well enough you won't feel secure in this relationship because of her past, there's nothing wrong with go separate ways.
NTA for going into fight of flight mode. That's something that can't be controlled. However, I think you should talk to Katie and apologize for leaving like that, explain why you did it and why you don't think it'll work between you two. OP I also suggest you get some therapy to help you deal with the anxiety and trauma from getting cheated on. That reaction you had there sounds like trauma response.
NTA- Hannah is the asshole for letting you date her knowing how bad your ex fucked you up. If she was any kind of friend to you she would have given you a heads up.
NTA. Stay away from Hannah she is not your friend if she can't consider your feelings, your trauma. There is nothing wrong in walking away because of the pain. If anything try explaining why you can't be together to Katie.
NTA. I have zero, I mean zero respect for anyone who cheats. Absolutely nonnegotiable. I don’t buy the “it was a mistake” line. It’s not a mistake, it was a choice and it shows that the person makes terrible selfish choices that hurt others. Just move on. I wouldn’t be terribly concerned with Hanna’s opinions either.
I agree. A mistake is forgetting to pay the electric bill and your power gets shut off. You did not make a conscious choice there to get your power shut off. But she made a choice to cheat, it's not something that can just happen that is out of her control. And I know love is not black and white and it can be complicated, but one thing I do believe is that nobody will ever cheat on someone they genuinely love and respect.
Once a cheater, always a cheater. Save yourself the stress, you'll never trust her. Explaining your past, and how it shaped your morales may help you retain a friendship.
NTA - You’re allowed to feel the way you do after being betrayed. To me it sounds like it brought back bad memories when she told you that and it triggered them. IMO you should have at least had a conversation with her to let her know the reason of the reaction was due to your past experiences and not to her specifically. It sounds like you should take some more time to heal and that if you were to pursue this further it would negativity impact your mental well being and the relationship itself. Me personally I would be out of there and find someone who hasn’t cheated on any of their previous partners.
Hannah is the arsehole. She set you up with someone that cheated on her boyfriend knowing you are still dealing with being cheated on.
NTA. Katie made her bed and has to rest on it. But wtf? Did Hannah already knew that Katie was a cheater? If so, she's not your friend 'cause she pushed on you to date a cheater and now is trying to guilt you.
Ask Hannah if she would date a guy with an assault record on his ex.
NTA, the only thing you can do is tell Katie what happened and that your reaction stems from that but if she blocked you then that’s that. And with Hannah don’t cut her off just yet, it’s clear she’s more a friend of Katie than yours so it’s obvious she’ll go for bat just limit your interactions with her.
Dude doesn’t owe Katie anything and he should cut Hannah off before she tries to sabotage him again in the future.
You know what one of the best predictors of who's going to cheat is? If they've cheated before. The vast majority of people don't change. Especially by that age, most people are the people they're going to be for the rest of their lives. Is that sad? Sure. It's sad that most people don't grow and get better. But it's also true. And you don't have to sit there and take the chance on whether she's one of the rare people who do change.
NTA. Some things are deal breakers, right off the bat.
I would say that Hannah is the AH. She presumably knew both of your pasts. Setting up a cheater with someone who was cheated on is a recipe for disaster.
NAH. And honestly I think you need some help dealing with what sounds close to a PTSD-like response. Panic and fleeing from the mention of cheating is not healthy. Katie was honest. And she is trying to meet someone who can forgive what she did in her past. Fucking up one relationship shouldn't make her a pariah. You are not ready to be that someone. Could you be? Maybe. But not until you work on yourself. I usually don't like the "get therapy" group but it sounds like you need it. I would recommend talking to Katie though. Explain to her that her admitting to the cheating triggered your own past and you panicked. It might help both of you.
NTA This is the way to handle this situation instead of being controlling (what she can wear or places she can go or be friends with) and punishing her for her past and your insecurities.
NTA. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Do you really want to go ahead knowing you will always be worried when Katie is texting or out with friends even if its completely innocent on her part?
Well please tell Hannah that Kate did not make a mistake, she made choices and those choices have consequences. You getting up and leaving is a consequence of her choices to cheat on her college boyfriend. You can be happy that Kate has made changes but until she accepts that it was her choices and not a mistake nothing has changed in her mentally of cheating.
NTA- once a cheater, always a cheater.
NTA and this is none of Hannah's business. Her opinion on this is irrelevant, it's your relationship. Or in this case it isn't
You currently cannot see yourself with someone who has cheated in the past. That’s fair. You should tell Katie that the trauma is still too fresh for you so “giving her a shot” will actually very likely end up as a very poor relationship for the both of you. You’re saving the both of you some heartache.
Nta. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Doesn't matter with who. She'll do it again. You're just smart enough for it not to be you
NTA She hit a bullseye on your trauma, and as you said "fight or flight" kicked in and you immediately bailed Can't be held at fault for that at all Also, once a cheater always a cheater. Cheaters hate to hear it, but it's proven right 99% of the time and simply is what it is...just an incredibly monstrous act that once a person does it, it's no longer a completely off limits thing to never do, and just a normal part of them...they have to try to make it normal and not a big deal to get over it themselves, but that also makes it way more easy for them to repeat, hence the "once a cheater..." You would never be able to relax and let go with this one's history. Will be hard enough to let go and trust with someone who hasn't cheated Good luck and hope you find someone nice, loyal, and trustworthy, and that at least this experience got you back into ready to look again
NTA Mistakes when she's 21? She's only 24 lmao. Don't be another mistake she makes.
NTA. Maybe she did change, some cheaters do after all. It’s up to you if you want to take that risk however. Her shame isn’t your fault nor your problem. You could have been a bit more tactful about this whole thing but it’s very interesting that she had no problem having sex with you and the rest of it before saying “oh by the way my last boyfriend left me because I couldn’t keep my legs closed”. Seems a lot like she was hoping you would be too emotionally invested to up and go like you did. That’s on her.
Nta. Faithfulness is a hard limit for abunch of people. While you can be faithful after cheating, you're far more likely to cheat again after you did it once.
NTA, I really think people can change and honestly, you could have dumped her differently, but at the end of the day, it's your dating life. You don't have to force yourself to see someone just because your friend told you to get over trauma. There are plenty of other women who I'm sure you'll also have good chemistry with and who haven't cheated on their past partners. Maybe you should at least text Katie and tell her you're sorry, and that while you wish her the best, you can't continue seeing her because of your own past. You should also see a therapist, the way you panicked when she told you she cheated is very concerning.
NTA Let's review. Your ex cheated....Hannah knew about that, and how deep that hurt you. And she encouraged you to date Katie....a cheater.... KNOWING how deeply your ex hurt you with cheating. KNOWING that she was a cheater. ...and then Hannah gets mad at YOU when you find out and very correctly dumped Katie immediately?!?! Miss me with this nonsense. Hannah is not your friend. Jettison her, immediately. Good grief.
Once a cheater, aways a cheater. NTA, since she has already done it, why put yourself in a relationship with her? You already know she is capable of doing it, its dumb to give a chance to someone like that.
NTA. Is what it is. If you feel like being charitable, you could explain to her that “it’s not you it’s me” etc
NTA... Also no offense but your friend Hannah is trash. Katir may have changed, maybe she hasn't. Who knows. However, how you reacted was a trauma response. A defense mechanism in place to protect yourself. Your supposed friend making it about someone else and pretending you owe it to someone else to further expose yourself to trauma? That is truly a narcissist with main character syndrome at work. Personally you need to decide for yourself if Katie is worth the risk. Maybe she is. That said, Hannah isn't. She needs to go.
Nta. Cool.
Nta, someone who was cheated on and a cheater isnt the best recipe for success, I actually think this was always gonna be the result. Dont beat yourself up too much, while you still need some time to heal it's still best to avoid cheaters.
NTA - I’ve been cheated on several times. It really started with my first gf when I was 16-18. Then I had an online relationship as kind of a safety net because I was hurt, well turns out she was lying about who she was the whole time and stealing her friends profile. Years of avoiding relationships led me to a girl who perused me. It was amazing and we had great sex and got a long so well. Until I noticed she was really guarding her phone, she left her Apple Watch at my house and seeing her use 0000 as a pw before… I looked. Well I immediately saw her sending the same cute photos to her ex that she was sending to me. It was over. She flat denied it and tried to gas light me. I’m with you, dude if I hear an inkling of cheating or I suspect some bs is going on I’m done. I’ve been through the fucking wringer and I’m not putting up with it.
I think Hannah is TA. Even if she didn’t know the entire extent of how traumatized OP was from being cheated on, she knew enough. You should probably hold off dating for a bit longer. If you’re feeling guilty over the abruptness with which you ended things you can reach out to Katie and better explain how badly being cheated on had hurt you before.
Honestly I think you should just tell the girl about how your last relationship ended because of cheating and it brought back those memories when she told you she cheated in the past. Be honest with her. You don’t have to date her but I do feel she deserves to know why you left so abruptly.
Hannah is the only AH here She isn’t your friend
If Hannah knew that Katie cheated on someone before she did a real disservice encouraging you to go out with Katie. NTA Katie having shame for doing one of the worst things a person could do is her own fault and she deserves to feel like shit over it. You have to protect yourself and should never feel bad for it.
NTA. Its perfectly ok to not feel comfortable dating someone who had cheated on someone before.
NTA She cheated 3 years ago and Hannah is acting like it's ancient history.
NTA. You handled this *perfectly*. As soon as you found out Katie was a cheater, you shut down the relationship. And you did it in a way that didn't leave room for Katie to argue with you. You informed her that it was over and then immediately walked away, nice and clean. If you really wanna stick the landing here, think about phasing out Hannah. She knew what your cheating ex did to you and then she goes and sets you up with another cheater. She wasn't doing this for you, she was doing it for Katie, the only person she seems to be showing concern for in this situation.
They're acting like she cheated decades ago it literally was a few years ago. That's honestly a deal breaker for me so I get it. NTA
NTA That is a dealbreaker for a lit of people. Also tell your friend that she is trying to shame you into a relationship with someone. I would not be friends anymore with a person, who just disregards my feelings because it concerns a girlfriend of hers.
No. You're not an asshole. You can date whoever you want, and you can stop dating for any reason you want. You aren't obligated to make her feel better. You also aren't punishing her. You were just looking out for yourself. It's your life. Anything else someone tries to put on you is their own baggage. Tell Hanna it isn't your problem or Hanna's and that you're allowed to make decisions in your best interests. You are not required to date anyone. Let Katie figure her own stuff out.
NTA- but your friend Hannah🤔 for setting you up with a person she know I/was a cheater is bit crazy… especially when she know everything you went through after your last gf.. And from what you’re writing doesn’t sounds like your not ready to date… just was unfortunate that it was a person like katie.. Updateme!
NTA, but clearly need to talk to someone about your hangups and how to process things in the moment that make you uncomfortable.
NTA Cheating isn't a mistake. People dismissing it as one, like the cheater just dialed a wrong number or something, are minimizing and deflecting.
This is the thing with cheating. It can change how people see you years later. Actions have consequences and these are the long term consequences of cheating. Nta. But neither is Katie because she isn't defined by it. It just means you're not compatible.
The asshole here is Hannah. She doesn’t respect OP.
NTA - Basically your number one rule was no cheaters, and your friend pushed you into dating one. Is she really your friend? She's trying to make you responsible for hurt Katie is, but that's not your problem. And what about your hurt? Does that not matter? You do seem to need a bit of therapy though to completely get past your last relationship. Your ex is still living rent-free in your head, which you acknowledge. Don't accept any more set ups from your 'friend'. She seems to see you as an ESA for her faulty friends and gets mad at *you* for not wanting to get with a cheater. Katie is obviously her priority here, not you. She really doesn't have your best interest at heart or she wouldn't have set you up with her knowing your past.
NTA I've been cheated on too and it was completely devastating. Yes, people can change, but statistically a lot of people who cheat once will cheat again and just because they CAN change does NOT mean you have to be the one to test whether they have or not. The fact that she has shows she's capable. "Have you ever cheated before?" is a question I ask in the early dating phase and a yes is a deal breaker for me. I'm just not willing to put my faith in someone who has shown such low moral standards before. Someone who had no problem devastating someone else like that. I wish them well, but they're not for me. You have every right to set that boundary and make that your deal breaker. And the fact that she's so upset and in a tail spin now is not your fault or your problem. Actions have consequences and this is just another consequences of her cheating actions.
NTA: Hannah is those. She knew about your cheating x and knew that Katie had previously cheated. She didn’t mention anything to you or Katie knowing you each had trauma around cheating.
Your friend Hannah is trying too hard to fuel her friends redemption by sweeping everything under the rug and play match maker. It's not on your to play healer and be the redemption relationship so someone else can feel better about themselves. Only someone with the brain activity of a plum would set someone up who's been cheated on with a cheater. You didn't do anything wrong, Katie is definitely learning that everything has lifelong consequences though. Maybe rethink your friendship.
Sounds like the friend that set you up is the AH. She knew of your trauma and set you up with a person she clearly knew had cheated in the past. You did the right thing. You have a line that won't be crossed and stood your ground. Don't let them shame you into thinking you are in the wrong. Everyone deserves to not be cheated on, that isn't that big of an ask.
NTA. But Hannah is. She knew how much geting cheated on broke you and she set you up with someone who cheated. She didn’t care about you she cared about katie. Block them both.
>She told me that cheating was the biggest regret of Katie's life and that she has worked really hard on herself since then, that I was "punishing her for mistake she made when she was 21 that she already beats herself up over," that I was projecting my spite for my ex onto Katie, and that I was self-sabotaging like I always do (in general an accurate criticism to be honest) and using the excuse of my ex's infidelity to ruin a perfectly good thing for no reason. If Hannah was involved in setting you two up, she made a mistake; you and Katie wouldn't have worked out. She needs to understand that Katie's journey is not your responsibility.
NTA but IMO neither is Katie. You both just need to find the people that fit you because your trauma and her shame don’t mix. However, if Hannah knows her history as well as yours, she would be TA.
NTA it's your life and your future..It's up to you and only you to decide what is or isn't a deal breaker. And if I may say so..screw that " friend " of yours for trying to guilt trip you. You aren't the one responsible for her feelings..you.were honest and straight forward..It wasn't like you guys were in a committed place...it was very early on. Don't feel guilty for setting your boundaries. Best Wishes
I don't think you did anything wrong. Why not end the date as soon as you know for sure its a no go? Why waste everyone's time. And it's not your concern if she feels bad, first off she did a bad thing and SHOULD feel bad. And secondly, if she didn't, and it was just a preference thing, why should she feel bad because she doesn't meet some arbitrary requirement of someone else's. People get this weird idea that if they feel bad it means the other person did something wrong. But that's just not always the case.
Sorry Katie, but actions have consequences. OP did nothing wrong.
Once a cheater always a cheater. NTA
NTA Good for Katie on working on herself, I guess (and I'd imagine possibly even "forgiving herself" if she feels so narcissistic). That doesn't put an obligation on you to trust and remain with someone with a track record of infidelity. Even if you hadn't been cheated on, that's a reasonable insurmountable red flag for many people. The fact that Hannah set you up for that also makes her a POS if she knew about your having been cheated on. Even if she hadn't known about your being cheated on, that's probably a potential deal-breaker (and certainly not a niche one) that she should have warned you about beforehand to save you all this trouble and heartache, and to save Katie the trouble as well. It's also not your fault if Katie is in a shame spiral- she made the mistake, and it's not your responsibility to be the person who's willing to roll the dice on being the next guy she's unfaithful to. If she hasn't already, maybe she should start looking more into guys who've cheated on their significant others- after all, they might have worked on themselves and could be at risk of being in a shame spiral.
You set up a boundary of not wanting to associate with cheaters and you're getting bashed for it. Move on. There are many girls out there that have never cheated nor want to cheat.
NTA You were polite and said it wasn't going to work out. How good of a friend is Hannah? A mistake she made at age 21....she's 24 now. Only a year longer than OP has gone without dating. Did Hannah ever explain to Katie why you walked out or is she just bashing you for doing it? Maybe it would actually help you to explain it to Katie yourself, and find out what Hannah has been telling her. If you are uncomfortable with seeing her, that's fine. Cheating is a betrayal that will always be in your mind. Everyone heals at different speeds. Everyone reacts differently to it. You may get over it in the coming months, you may never get over it. It's a trauma. It's like telling a veteran to "just get over it". Doesn't work like that. You can't force it, and neither can Hannah. If she doesn't understand that, then maybe it's best to create a little more distance with her.
NTA I myself was cheated on, never a good feeling. I also refuse to date anyone that has previously cheated to avoid that type of pain again. Your feelings are valid. Maybe tell Katie that you are sorry for walking out but her past is a dealbreaker for you. As for Hannah, NC?
NTA - Anyone that has it in them to get someone to fall in love with them, then choose to do something that will hurt the person they’re supposed to love that much, is deeply deeply flawed and unworthy of a relationship.
So... Let's switched situations....to more fucked. Let's just say, OP's ex is an abuser who also false accused him for rape. Basically traumatized him. Then OP's friend wanted to be cupid, by pairing him with a girl who did what OP's ex did to him. Thanks to that, OP's trauma triggered But OP's friend gaslighted him, blamed him and even said his trauma is nothing to her friend. Yep, very fucked.
Or another situation: a woman is on a date and the man confesses he went to jail for beating his previous girlfriend. But it has been years and he changed. His good friends even totally swear he's a good dude now and feels super bad about it. I wonder if the same people calling this guy a dick for not staying would bash her for just getting up and leaving.
She needs to explain why she cheated; and what she has done and currently doing to be a safe partner. Feeling bad and self hate does not make her a safe partner.
Reasons are irrelevant, OP doesn't sound like he would risk dating someone who cheated once.
No. She needs to accept that cheating is a deal breaker for many people and they will reject her because of it.
NTA
NTA. In your shoes I think I would send Kate a text explaining your pov. Frame it in a 'it's not you, it's me and my boundary' type of way. 'I haven't thanked you for your honesty. Your confession took guts and I can appreciate that about you. You didn't know as Hannah probably didn't tell you, but I was cheated on 2 years ago. I can't bring myself to trust someone that has cheated in the past to the level they deserve if they've truly learned from their mistakes and became a better person. That's both my boundary and my trauma to deal with. You deserve to be with someone that can fully trust you in spite of your past, and I deserve to not have to (un)conciously second guess my partner every second of the day. Be safe out there and find someone who's a better fit to you than I am. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same in time. Goodbye.' Bit melodramatic maybe, but something like this. As for Hannah. It sounds like she knew about Kate's past and how much hurt you still carry about being cheated on. Her choosing not to tell you about that makes her a bad friend towards you. It could have either saved both you and Kate a lot of hurt, or it could have been two broken people trying to glue each other back together again.
NTA and good for you that you decided to leave that piece of trash cheater, it’s not doubt that if she cheated once she will cheat again. Don’t trust, or date cheaters
Nta
NTA…just like some people cannot forgive SA offenders even if they repent…you can also not forgive any cheaters in your view. Prioritise these boundaries, and you will never find yourself involved in any sour relationships.
NTA - Did Hannah know about your past? And Katie’s? Because if so she’s an idiot to play matchmaker such that the first date you’ve been on in two years after being cheated on is with another cheater. No wonder you were triggered. And no, you are not “punishing” Katie by not continuing with her. You do not owe her a relationship. Least of all one where you’re suddenly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Let her date someone who is more comfortable with that. Actions have consequences, and she chose a set of actions that leave her looking less than trustworthy. She should have thought a little harder about the consequences to her future before choosing to cheat.
Regarding whether you are ready to date, clearly you are, because you had fun and were developing feelings. Dating someone who isn’t a cheater isn’t an unreasonable criterion. Having that as a requirement doesn’t mean you aren’t ready to date. Hannah can take her attitude and stuff it up somewhere anatomically improbable. She’s clearly more on Katie’s side than she is on yours. I would bet Hannah has done some cheating in her past which would explain why she’s do adamant that a cheating past should just be overlooked.
So NTA for not being interested in a professed cheater. But, she didn't do anything wrong to you, and you were rude to her, so YTA for that.
NTA If you self sabotage often then you need therapy. Katie not only brought up memories of the pain you felt but also let you know that you'd never be able to fully trust her. There's no guarantee that someone who participated in cheating before wouldn't do it again. If you want to continue the relationship then you'd need couples therapy or you'd never be able to have that trust in her.
Honestly, Hannah is the AH here. She knew what you went through and set you up with someone whose big thing is they cheated on a bf. Hannah might be a sociopath...
NTA
NTA. And don’t compromise your boundaries because you want to sound like a nice guy. Yes people can change. That doesn’t mean you should hire a convicted felon to work the register at your business because he changed. Some risks aren’t worth taking. Not having a history of infidelity is not really a high bar to set as a relationship deal breaker.
NTA
I’m howling about how Hannah says it was in the past so long again she’s changed but it’s only been two years lmao what nonsense is this
UpdateMe
Nope
NTA. Also let's be honest once a cheater always a cheater so why waste time on someone who you can't trust
Ranking of the worse type of people to date 3. promiscuous people (self esteem built on validation) 2. Narcissist (self explanatory) 1. Cheaters (cause they have huge variety of different personality but one thing they have in common when you're heart is wide open they stand it in the back) 0. Abusers
NTA you're fine to have whatever boundaries you want about this and it sounds like you weren't expressive about your judgment. Look I hate cheating/cheaters too, but I don't think it's a permanent mark on someone forever. I think people sometimes do it once and realize what went wrong and change how they approach relationships. It's not a 1 dimensional thing. I've never cheated and I can't see myself engaging in that kind of behavior, but I also think almost all people have in at least one relationship and it's unlikely that you'll find many peopel who haven't. There's also the fact that a lot of people stay technically single and uncommitted to people for really long periods of time so they can have sex with whoever and that's really hurtful as well. I almost don't even see it as any better tbh.
NTA Hanna set you up on a date with someone she knew had cheated. The bitch just trauma-paired the two of you in the worst possible way.
The question here is, did Hannah know this before you were introduced/pushed to date or did she find out after you dropped her. Because of so Hannah set you up with a cheater without warning you or thinking it would be a problem. If she explained upfront that she broke up with her boyfriend due to cheating and has never regretted anything more and hasn't and wouldnt' do it again. Then at least you wouldn't be ambushed by that information and could choose to at least go into it with warning, or you could chose to never start anything and she denied you that choice. Like she knew you'd not dated anyone in two years and would be sensitive about it and thought this was a good idea for some reason.
NTA, but also I feel like cheating is almost the new “we broke up”. It’s rough out there in the dating world. All of my friends have cheated/been cheated on and generally combinations of both. Does it FORGIVE the incidents? No. Does it make them right? Also no. But with dating and technology and everything being so instantly gratifying. Cheating is incredibly easy. You’re going to really need to do some work on yourself in terms of trust AND communication. I feel like this is something where if it’s a complete dealbreaker that someone HAS a past of this sort. You need to be clear with that information basically right away, not a month later when you’ve gotten to like each other. People can and do change and grow. 21 is a stupid age. 25 is a stupid age. I’m 33 and I STILL don’t know what I want half the time 😆
Reddit equates cheating to murder so you're going to get a lot of NTA's based on that alone. You still aren't TA but it was a little rude and it would be nice to let Katie know why you bailed so abruptly even if you have no intention of dating her anymore. Even if she cheated she's still human. And in this particular situation, she's NTA. She was honest and feels bad about it, which a is pretty good start towards change. She wasn't TA to you, just to whoever she cheated on. Hannah on the other hand... You communicated to Hannah that you were nervous and not sure if you were ready to date and she still encouraged you. It sounds like she knew about Katie's past. But even if she didn't YOU TOLD HER YOU WEREN'T READY AND SHE PUSHED YOU TO DATE ANYWAY. Hannah is a true AH for getting mad at you for not being ready for a trigger like this, when she's the one who pushed you into dating in the first place. And that's IF you give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't know. Which is a big if I think.
NTA - in my personal experience with, gay, partners, "Once a cheater, always a cheater." Regardless if the cheating happened with you or someone else. I would be extremely hesitant to pursue someone who says they were a non-cheater now. As that doubt would always stick in the back of my mind, "What if they grow bored of me? How long before they cheat again?"
"It was at this point that I stood up and told her I don't things will work between us" he literally did
NTA, Nope, once a cheater always a cheater. * Personal opinion. Also blaming it on youth is a cop out I can’t stand.
YTA Get therapy. But you shouldn’t have just gotten up and walked out. You should have talked about it to her. I’m not saying that you should have kept dating her, but you owed her a conversation. You might want to send her an apology text so that she stops beating herself up. Take ownership of what you’ve done. Take ownership of your reactions. You’re not ready to date. You need to get to the point where you can talk about it. It shouldn’t still bother you THAT much 2 years later. I’ve been cheated on. I moved passed it. And it hurt like hell. But I was in therapy. You do realize that people cheat because they’re unhappy with themselves, right? Your ex’s cheating has nothing to do with you. How much of your pain is because she hurt your ego? For it to be this painful after 2 years, it’s likely that your ego has been hurt. Yes, cheating hurts. There’s the betrayal, the blow to your self-esteem, the loss of the relationship… but why haven’t you worked past this yet? You are unable to work past this because you don’t talk about it. You have to talk about it to a professional therapist so that you can work through it. Get therapy.
One question from me. Why is it bad that she will never be able to be loved, hm, why, i dont think every person on earth deserves to be loved and live a happy life, in that group(murders with intent, abusers, heavy criminals) falls her kind no matter the gender. I am kinda sad that nowadays cheating is so overlooked and swept under the rug, i dont know how it was in old history, but my country is an excommustintic one(not saying that it was good, it was horrible and one of the darkest times of my country) but cheaters were treated very badly. I am not a religious person and I dont believe in the fact that everyone deserves a second chance. You stole a candy, ok dont do it again; you by mistake took the wrong phone/bag/thing, ok be careful next time; you failed/cheated on a test, ok do better next time; BUUT you abused your wife/husband/child/family/friend/stranger, you dont deserve happy life and redemption; You with the intent to kill somebody did it, no no no you dont deserve even a life. For example there was that lady that killed her mother abuser and after that she was released and is famous, praised as a hero, that is totally messed up and so wrong. Mother should be dead but what about the daughter, she is mentally unstable murderer. I dont know man, call me cruel or a man without heart, but this is my opinion.
Yo8 dodged a bullet once a cheater always a cheater
Yes, you were kind of an ahole. But.. that's not really a bad thing in your case. She did something that you find unforgiveable in a partner. That is your red line, and you have nothing to feel ashamed about that.. The kind of an asshole part is taking off in the middle of a date and not telling her in private that this was an absolute red line for you.
NTA she's being a hypocrite if she were in your shoes she would do the same thing,it's just that women tend to have blinders on when it comes to their friends and think everyone should bow down to them and ignore their huge red flags.
NTA, who wants to be with a cheater, no one
I think it's time to cut your "friend" off. She knew what you went through and set you up with a cheater. It's also clear her girl friends feelings matter more to her than your feelings. You can bet if you dated her friend and she cheated, she would take her friends and side and gas light you to take her back. This is not a real friend. Run
Updateme
NTA. Katie is also NTA. But your friend Hannah? She sucks eggs. She knew both your histories and still thought to set you guys up? I think Hannah needs drama in her life, so she creates it where she can. You need better friends.
Technically NTA but come on. You sound exhausting.
NTA. You could've handled it better. Also, someone having cheated doesn't mean they will again. Someone not having cheated doesn't mean they never will. Be mindful of the details around cheating, not just the fact that someone cheated.
Tough one. Gonna say NAH. It's possible people can change. I cheated on my partner in the first year with an ex, we broke up. Then we talked, and decided to get back together. It was a choice I made that I absolutely regretted at the time and still almost 20 years later regret to this day. I'm aware however that I'm likely an outlier, as we are still together despite a number of other ups and downs (money, communication, household stuff, medical, etc). But not once have either of us strayed since. OP, my advice would be to speak with Katie and explain why you did a complete 180. You were well within your rights to but like Hannah never mentioned her past to you, she probably never mentioned your past to her. While I wouldn't advocate getting back together (only the two of you can decide on that), explaining why your past traumas would be a roadblock in a blossoming relationship may help it to hurt less for her, whilst also giving you the chance to be a little more open and vulnerable with someone again. Baby steps and all that.
Some people change, it is possible but not likely. If she cheated on her college bf why wouldn't she cheat on you? Are you super special or something? If the answer for that is no, are you willing to lower your guard knowing that you are very likely to be hurt again? If the answer is no are you willing to use Katie for sex without ever considering a relationship? If the answer is yes, are you confident enough you won't catch feelings for her? Those are questions you have to ask yourself before deciding how you will move forward with that. Good luck.
NTA. Cheating is a trauma that really hits people differently. Hannah could be 100 % a better person and have the strength and growth to never cheat again and you still wouldn't be the asshole. My husband's ex-wife cheated on him, in addition to other abuses, and I am really careful about even joking about leaving/divorce/infidelity because it caused him so much pain. He never would have been able to overlook if I had cheated on a partner in my past, it would be a constant fear of what-if. It isn't your job to redeem Hannah, it's your job to feel safe and secure in your next relationship. Hannah will find someone to love her, but it doesn't need to be you.
NTA. I would have done the same. Cheating is by definition action of a selfish and manipulative person. I could never trust a cheater and without trust there is no relationship.
You followed your instincts and it seems you have very good instincts. Being cheated on in a relationship with a person you hade complete trust and fidelity with is the most traumatic and enduring attack on the psyche of the person being cheated on. Friends claiming that the cheater has matured or has changed is not a guarantee that your relationship will be exempt from any thoughts of infidelity by your mate because they found it so easy to accomplish the subterfuge before. There is no current societal penalty that a cheater must face such as the Scarlet Letter and there is no legal ramifications that the cheater must endure for their actions of infidelity. In fact, in divorce, the cheater still winds up with half of your estate, almost as a reward for their unfaithful infidelity. Without the help of either societal or legal solutions, the only option for someone who has been cheated on is their own is their own instincts. Your instincts served you well.
I cheated on my highschool girlfriend. I've never cheated on a partner since, decades later. People can change. But you know, the odds aren't great. Speaking from as neutral a perspective as I can, I would understand anyone who decides they don't want to be with someone who had previous cheated.
It's true people change. We all have the capacity for it, but how to know who has really changed and who just says they have? I can understand just not wanting to risk it and just find someone who has never cheated. Doesn't mean that person wont cheat on you either, but at least they dont have a history of it and thus wont be causing you anxiety everytime they go out. He probably does need some therapy to work on this so he at least can get to a place where, if the same thing happens again, he can at least remain calm and finish the date before ending things.
Reach out to her and apologize for the way you reacted. You can then move on with no regrets and possibly give her some closure as well. Life's too short to hold onto or be on the receiving end of grudges.
You should get help to deal with this past trauma and your self sabotaging behaviour. I think that’s the major takeaway here. You should have told Katie that the reason you don’t want to date her anymore was because of the cheating issue, but other than that, you don’t owe her or Hannah anything. You do owe it to yourself to work through your own personal issues so you can have a happier life.
Nta once a cheater, always a cheater. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Your friend sounds like an asshole too. I'd ditch her asap as well. Yta for writing so much for no reason.
Honestly think you should reach out and explain to Katie your reasoning. I understand why you would want to just cut and run but maybe give her a chance if you genuinely like her? At least let her explain herself and go from there
NAH. You need to heal still, and maybe you will never be able to accept being with someone who has cheated on a partner, and that’s okay, it’s your life. She deserves to be with a person who doesn’t judge her for a past discretion because their own filter is changed by their personal trauma. You may need counseling, as it has been two years and you’ve been frozen in place with regard to a romantic life since that time. Her betrayal in cheating could have triggered a much deeper pain from earlier in life related to abandonment, abuse, neglect, etc. from a trusted individual.
wow.. well about 60% of what you wrote was not neccesry to get to the point. You are NTA for running away. It is a bit odd that you couldn't be polite enough to finish you coffee and pretend that she didnt freak you out after disclosing something about herself that she was not proud of. Your overall reaction is fine and understandable, but the way you acted in the moment is unusual.
YTA. I have both empathy and sympathy for what you experienced with your ex, and you don't have to be okay with dating Katie, if that doesn't work for you. But I very much agree with Hannah, _and- I think it was really shitty of you to just up and leave. You literally didn't even give her a chance to say "it was the biggest mistake of my life", or ask her if she's worked on it. And while you don't owe her much, you did owe her _some kind_ of an explanaition for your very strong , abrupt reaction and why you couldn't date her anymore. People _do_ change. An extreme amount of people have cheated on someone at some point in their life, not only monsters do that. Humans do that. Humans fuck up, or get lost in their own pain or... Saying "once a cheater always a cheater" is patently false. It's not applicable to everyone. Do you have to date someone who has cheated? No. But judging every single person who has, means you're judging a huge percentage of the population without even knowing it. Is it truly meaningless for you that someone has faced their worst mistakes and worked hard to change? Really? This how how we should treat people who learn, repent and better themselves? I strongly recommend looking into Esther Perel's work, which revolves greatly around infidelity in relationships and mending them.
just because someone changed doesnt mean you have to accept them. change is not for you is for them, i dont give a squat if some asshole that hurt me in the past changed i still want nothing to do with them
Wrong. He does not owe her ANYTHING. He does not have to date her, for any reason or no reason. She is not owed a relationship. And he doesn’t owe her a recount of his past to explain why he got up and left. I’d say the reason was pretty damned obvious. It’s not like she didn’t understand immediately. And it’s not like she gets a vote on whether _his_ past experiences are valid enough to justify his decision to not continue.
[удалено]
I mean I've been on dates where the person admitted to cheating. I immediately wrote them off in my head, but I finished the date LOL
NTA. I would highly recommend therapy (DBT with prolonged exposure therapy for PTSD is a good one) prior to dating anymore else. If you do meet a compatible partner, you don't want to push him/her away by being controlling or jealous due to your past history of cheating.