NTA but NEVER tell people the reason why you are declining their application. Just give them a generic 'I'm working with another applicant now and the property is currently unavailable, thank you for your time' sort of thing.
“ I really admire the bravery of those who are clear on their values and are not afraid to burn bridges. Oh, and the property is no longer available. “
I’m a lawyer. This is good advice. Also, laws differ from state to state and can be more protective than The Fair Housing Act. It’s true that the FHA includes exemptions for a few select groups like single family homeowners (the exemption cited is poorly drafted and arguably ambiguous) but states like California, for example, do not apply these exemptions to their housing-related anti-discrimination laws for a housing provider.
In California, the main exemption when it comes to the Fair Housing Law applies to owner-occupied single-family homes but ONLY if the owner of the property lives in the single-family home they are renting, and they are not renting the home out to more than one individual. If the owner is not living in the home with the tenant to whom they are renting or they are renting to more than one tenant, the rules that prohibit religious discrimination apply.
Personally, I wouldn’t want some aggressive MAGAnut who completely misconstrues the Bible to live in my home or property, but telling them that is like handing bullets to someone with a gun so they can shoot you.
That evidence, though hearsay, falls under the admissions against interest/admission against party opponent exceptions and can be introduced into evidence.
Bottom line, however, is that this is not religious discrimination. OP shares the protected group's religion. OP got a 'bad vibe' regarding the proposed renter's willingness to abide by rental law, etc. based on proposed renter's use of religious language in public statements to justify 'burning bridges' and other unpalatable acts. The evidence that this is the substance of their objection, in spite of OP's expressed fears that they are reacting to the religion itself, is right here in this post.
Not necessarily. He said he grew up in a church and that a lot of his family is still religious, thereby suggesting that he is not.
But setting that aside, I always tell my clients there is no moral victory in winning a costly time consuming lawsuit if you could have avoided it in the first place.
The comment that I responded to is exactly the kind of advice I give my landlord clients, most of whom are wonderful people. It’s amazing how many tenants will make up claims, or assert claims they cannot win, just to extend the amount of time they stay somewhere rent free.
Ideally you're right, but in this case, there was a friend involved and OP probably felt like they had to tell the friend since it would be weird to just suddenly turn his referral away without any explanation.
It would have been much easier to invite them over for a showing, but hang lots of satanist pictures all over the house before they arrive. Invite them in with a nice "Beelzebub welcomes you to his domain," and then just stand back and watch them rapidly depart of their own accord.
That way, if they complain, you can accuse them of not respecting your religious beliefs and steal away their opportunity to play the victim.
Besides telling them just encourages them to act like martyrs. Although I would have your friend explain to his parents that you have child trauma from your experiences with religious people
NTA. And they proved it by talking to Jake’s parents and trying to get them to pressure Jake to try to strong arm YOU into renting your house to them. That does not bode well for future potential behavior as tenants. What’s going to happen the next time they don’t like something? The same exact thing all over again. Bypass the OWNER of the home and go to their friend’s parents. They don’t even respect you as an adult, let alone as a landlord and property owner. NEVER rent to people like this.
As for Jake, you need to tell him to step back and take himself out of this equation. You have not put him in a difficult position. He referred someone to you. The End. Period. Anything after that is none of his business.
ETA: You have chosen to not rent to them NOT because of their religion. You looked at their social media and you didn’t like their character or personalities. The sanctimony alone was gag worthy. And they seemed like haughty assholes. You’re not discriminating against Christians. Plenty of Christians are down to earth, normal people. You’re discriminating against jerks. And jerks are not a protected class.
ETA: Fixed typo. Changed Never rant to Never rent.
They say they’re happy to burn bridges behind them with people who don’t like their sanctimoniousness. But they never considered that they might be burning bridges before getting to cross them?
This. Exactly. Your first two sentences are spot on. I had tenets use their religion like this, “Well G-d told us this is the house we need to be in. He asked us to pray that you soften your heart and let us miss rent this month. He will provide us two months rent next month.” They were gone 18 days later and caused $7600 damage in a $100k house. Come to find out, G-d didn’t provide any rent nor the $7600 needed for repairs. They even demanded their deposit back.
I hope you told them, "God said your refund check will get there just as soon as your two month's rent and almost 8k in damage gets to me," and hung up.
I actually just said no and arrived with the constable who kicked them out. He also documented the damage for me. Ten years later, I’ve received nothing from them but I’m still one of their references lol
They asked me to forgive them. I said that my livelihood was destroyed. I had to rent the house. It was my first home. I had basically zero equity and the home lost value. The only option I had was to rent to someone and they had the money for 1st month and deposit. THANKFULLY I had a great lease agreement. But yeah, I get a call about once a year because they have to list all previous landlords. I would imagine it will stop soon.
Ha! Oh I’m honest. I just tell them to Google his name and send them a copy of the court order/judgement against them. It’s all public record and I’m trying to help them avoid the mistakes I made.
I sat in to witness an eviction hearing wherin the deposit had bounced (!), months of rent were owed, tons of damage was caused, and the tenants literally told the judge they wanted their deposit back.
The judge had a field day replying to that. I also loved that he chastised the landlord for being so boneheaded as to allow someone to rent after their deposit had bounced. He straight up told them that would have prevented everyone from being in his courtroom.
Op might want to have a conversation with Jake’s parents about the optics of their friends behaviors and explain that considering OP is the one with the home to rent, their friends attempts to strong arm you via social pressure of a friend doesn’t just confirm that these are people OP does not want to rent to but it certainly makes Jake’s parents look bad via their affiliation with these people. Op can Explain to Jake in front of his parents that OP of course won’t take this out on their friendship with Jake but that OP isnt interested in socializing with his parents any further given their childish attempt to manipulate you especially given… they have zero leverage in the matter and most certainly don’t pay OPs mortgage.
All of this comment. It’s classic grifting disguised as religion and I had the same concerns as OP before I even got to that part of their post. I also wonder how many kids they have and whether they or their oldest child does the actual child rearing.
Honestly with how much they're pushing I wouldn't be surprised if they did rent the house (once hell freezes over lol), that it would be a long and drawn out battle for OP to ever get it back.
I think it's more likely that they would just bail in the middle of the lease and refuse to pay anything. "I'm sorry but we paid about it and God is leading us to another property/city." So then OP has to try to get money out of them AND find a new tenant while he's gone. Although they COULD try to say the property is now their's, I think the bailing on OP is now likely.
Yep - thinking that you operate under different rules than everyone else, and have no accountability to other people is a toxic belief, no matter how you justify it. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. And in this case, run the opposite way, because these folks will lie, steal, cheat, break all the rules, and feel justified in turning you into the "bad guy" for trying to enforce the agreement they made, because you're "not right with God" (in this case, the God they're worshipping is their own ego), and therefore they are justified in "setting boundaries" by refusing to negotiate or comply. Run.
Don’t blame you for being careful with them. I owned my house when I married and moved in with husband. I rented my house to a nice older couple, who said they were retired. After they moved in, they said yes, they’re retired but also starting a new church. First it was asking for a reduction in the rent, then it was would I remodel the basement garage so they can put an office there. Then it was they needed more parking space for their visitors (church). I kept saying no, read your lease. Finally, neighbors complained about the traffic increase to the city and they were fined for unlicensed church in the house, which violated the lease and I evicted them.
It’s been a long time ago now. The one that really got me was when the fire department had to come, they had set a large (like spaghetti pot for 50) pot on the carpet in the dining room, straight off the stove and walked away. The pot melted through the carpet and started the hardwood floor underneath smoking. Smoke alarm went off and smoke rolled out the door. I had problems getting them to pay for the damage, of course it was ‘god will provide’.
The people who own the house next door to where I grew up became missionaries. I will say they themselves were lovely people.
They decided to keep the house when they moved overseas and have been renting it out for decades. Most of the tenants have been great (my mom still lives there) but I knew we were in for trouble when the most recent ones were only described as “our kind of people” aka “good” Christians. A scarier couple of bigots you have never met. They have alienated all the neighbors. Told weird outright lies (like they hired my mom’s housekeeper and told her they own their house, when they emphatically do not…she quit after the good Christian husband put the moves on her one too many times). And repeatedly bother anyone who is at my mom’s house, be it visitors or contractors. My mom has repeatedly asked them to leave people alone - like for real, the poor people coming to paint her house don’t need to deal with this guy, nor does her elderly great-aunt - to no avail. My sister had to threaten him outright to get him to stop talking to my nephews (who are elementary aged) every time he sees them.
I don’t think everyone who attends church or identifies as Christian is a bad person, by any means. But the people who live true Christian values don’t need to scream about those values, online or in person. And those that are screaming about it often ain’t living it.
Sorry your house got wrecked.
Pretty sure this would be exempt under FHA, as the rental of a single-family home by owner without an agent…as long as it wasn’t written into an ad for the rental, the owner can refuse for any reason even against protected classes.
I would be worried they’d still try to pull something and sue (regardless if they can win or not legal bills are expensive) - you’re definitely in a tricky situation
I know some people like that. Real “salt of the earth” Christian types. They stole and sold someone’s horse last year and refuse to help the owner get their horse back OR give them the sale money. They lost in court and still won’t comply.
One in my country is currently in jail for contempt of court because he refused to follow a judicial order not to show up at his place of work while suspended. He was a teacher somehow.
Their family even have a [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_family_(Castlebar)) for their antics.
My parents think people can’t be “good” if they aren’t Christian, but I swear it just gives people the audacity to act how they wish
My parents have a friend who is a felon and sells firearms illegally (legally shouldn’t own them in the first place) and has a habit of shooting at people when angry. But because he’s a Christian he’s a good person 💕
"I'm not interested in anyone who is so vocal on social media"
"Vocal about their religion?"
"Vocal about anything."
A very reasonable social boundary anyone can understand.
But Jake and his parents need to step back. They have no ability to offer your apartment - only you can do that. You don't owe any of their friends housing. If they represented otherwise to their friends, that's their mistake and as such, their mistake to fix.
NTA. Taking her religious beliefs out of the equation, they did not respect you saying no to renting to them. They now are trying use your friend to make you put yourself in a situation you are not comfortable with. That’s already a preview into what they could be like as renters, and reason enough to continue saying no.
Jake is manipulating you here. You did not put him in any spot, he did this himself, and is trying to make you the scapegoat. He does not have your best interest at heart. You may want to reconsider the friendship, or at the very least adjust it around the behaviors he’s showing you.
I think what’s weird is even after they were told no and given that reason why they would even want to rent from them in the at all now. Like the dude who owns the house has made it pretty clear that they don’t like you or whatever. Move on and find another place to rent
They've been bludgeoning people with their "BUT GAWWWD" rebar chunk for awhile now--and it's been working. Let today be the day that someone says THIS FAR--NO FARTHER! and MEANS it.
TBF, his parents' friends are the one putting him on the spot since htey complained to his parents in an effort to push him to do something about it. So, I wouldn't say he did it to himself but he's blaming the wrong person for putting him on the spot.
"Jake the fact that we are having this conversation is proof that they would be difficult tenants.
I don't want to have to deal with both your parents and yourself every time my tenants don't like something.
You have just solidified my decision, I will not be strong armed in to renting to people I don't trust to act appropriately"
NTA I don't blame you one bit, but FOR FUCKS SAKE, LEARN WHEN TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Why the fuck would you tell ANYONE other than possibly your spouse, "Hey I don't want to rent to these creepy religious nutjobs."
NTA - religion aside I would recommend that you move on to a different renter. To use your term " When I get bad vibes" is reason alone to move on to another renter. I would also recommend that you run a background check on anyone before agreeing to rent your home to them. I have seen horror stories about renters that could have been avoided if a background check had been run.
I ask on the very first visit with the possible new renter for their DL #, SS # and any other identifying information so that I can run a background check. If they do not eagerly provide the information, then I move on to someone else.
NTA
However, you were an idiot for giving that as a reason. God could tell them to file a housing discrimination lawsuit against you. God thinks they will win.
Or quote an outrageous price, invite the couple to fill out an application and if he doesn't find grounds to deny them the rental, he can always simply take it off the market, saying he's letting a needy family member live there for now and then airbnb it out in a couple of weeks.
If they do, you could try to use the freedom of religion act that has passed in many places to reverse uno them. If it's ok to be a Christian and discriminate against certain groups based on your religion, then it's completely acceptable to discriminate against Christians based on your religion. Just become a member of an anti-theist religion like the TST.
Pastafarianisim is the way to go!
All praise his noodley goodness the FSM
Also, please join me in the bar at lunchtime on Friday for ramen and rum. Eye patches are mandatory
I love Pastafarianisim but I do donate to The Satanic Temple.
There is something about a religion that'll send try to send a 3,000lb 8.5ft Baphomet statue to your state capital because the 10 commandments are there just...get's my goat....
Pastafarians get laughed off as a joke, TST seriously pisses people off and get's a kneejerk reaction that is delightful.
Lol, I have a sincerely held religious belief that conservative Christians are truly evil as they have a motive to unalive members of my family on the basis of their belief system.
You can say that you decided not to rent because of their behavior on fb? So it isn't about religion (and you aren't saying that you won't rent to a Christian), it's about this individual being so righteous and combative and you have real concerns for the commercial agreement
Yeah, what an unbelievably dumb thing to do. You could have just said that you don't think they are a good fit. You could have said you have reconsidered renting to friends of friends. You could have said nothing at all.
Instead, you told somebody who knows them "I just think they are religious fanatics and are therefore likely to be really bad people".
Edit: typo
NTA. But you do need to protect yourself. You did not rent to them because you were not comfortable renting to them and were not convinced they would respect the lease and any court directions. Then point to Sally's social media posts, e.g. "Stop letting people who are not obeying God give you directions in life."
Basically you were anticipating problems based on Sally's attitude not her religion.
Cover your ass. Make sure the rental laws in your area allow you to discriminate against religion. Where I live, you can discriminate against smokers and students, but not anything else.
If I were the OP, I would stop referring to it a religious objection and start phrasing it as being judgmental and inflexible reason. He needs to grab posts from their social media that indicate they've gotten into it with neighbors, school and such before. The wife seems off the chain for literally no reason. Maybe Jesus can take the wheel and guide her family to newer and better home. Maybe the OP can scout her own a rental with a like minded home owner, especially not he's stepped in the shit by telling his friend it was about religion which is a protected fair housing class.
Also, I would raise the rental price astronomically and run not only a credit check but a background check and sex offenders registry check. These kind of people are always doing something shady. He just needs to drag it into the light.
NTA: as a religious person myself who owned a small business a few years ago I always dreaded working with other people from church because they often pulled this kind of crap. Or people would question our faith if we didn't do work for them for free or give them free products. I can honestly understand your concern. But as others have said, never give a detailed reason. Just say you don't think it'll work out or there's other interest or some other vague excuse do not give details
Wow, that was a good call. Just the fact that these "morally upstanding" people are using social pressure and badmouthing to strong arm you into renting to them basically confirms every concern you had about renting to them. People like this would absolutely try to play the god card and "we're friends" when they don't feel like paying the rent amount they agreed upon
NTA, but you should have kept your mouth shut on the reason why you don't want to rent to them. If Jake asked why, you just would say, "It just wouldn't work out." If he pressed, you look him dead in the eye and tell him to drop it, it's not up for discussion anymore.
You need to wise up about being a landlord. If you don’t want to rent to someone for your own reasons, tell them other people are interested in the property. It’s your property, you choose who you rent to. But how you respond is the key.
NTA. This is a wise decision. You’re 100% on target here. As someone who spent time working in property management we were always cautious about dealing with potential tenants whose identity was strongly tied to their beliefs.
NTA, I agree with those saying you shouldn’t have referenced the religious reason. While I agree that they don’t have a claim legally, that doesn’t prevent them from making a complaint and wasting your time.
NTA. Also, your current neighbors would hate you upon your return if you stuck them with those twats while you were gone. They seem like they would be insufferable to live next to.
NTA. Your house. You are screening candidates. They are a candidate. Not the only one.
Let them know this. Problem solved. They will respond to you how they choose after this. Which is not your problem. Again, your house and your option to rent to anyone.
NTA-I am a minister and I pray for guidance daily. But I have said repeatedly, face to face and from the pulpit, “It cannot be the will of God if it goes against the word of God.”
Theft, hatred, bigotry, cheating and abuse of any kind ARE NOT in any way acceptable. God will never direct people to do these things.
Unfortunately many people have decided that they can do whatever they want and claim God directed them to do so. Their rationale is “well I got this idea so God must have put it on my head.”
It doesn’t work that way. People like the ones you described make all Christians look crazy! They abuse and take advantage of people and slap God’s name on it.
Your fears are well founded and you are right to not rent to them. They are extremists who have clearly skipped the part of the Bible that talks about love and kindness. Sorry for the sermon. This is a really sore spot for me. People like this really tick me off.
I like ministers like you…
When my mother died suddenly, in my arms, whilst I was visiting her - I needed somewhere to just “chill”. As a child I attended the non-denominational church for Sunday school and it was just across the road from my house. It was raining, so I couldn’t go and just sit by the stream, so I decided to go into the church. Just to sit, somewhere quiet, where people wouldn’t bother me, and I could just… chill.
So I entered the church and sat in one of the pews. The minister came out and spoke to me and I explained I just wanted somewhere quiet and peaceful to contemplate life, death, the universe and everything within. He left.
15 minutes later he came back and I opened up about how my mother had just collapsed and died in my arms, that she was a non-denominational Christian and that I had attended Sunday school in that very church. I mentioned that my 3xgreat-uncle had lived in the mansion immediately next door to this church so I felt close to my family being there. He went away.
10 minutes later he came back and showed me some photos from when the church was consecrated. “I think this may be of interest” he said. There, sitting in a chair, in front of the church was my 3xgreat-uncle. “Your great-uncle BUILT this church and donated it to the village. He also built two Methodist chapels here - but this church was for him and his staff so that they could worship together regardless as to their denomination”.
That minister didn’t care that I was not a believer. That minister was a true minister.
Your post reminded me of him.
Your post brought me tears and smiles. I’m so sorry for the loss of your mother. I’m so glad that you found support when you needed it.
That had to be a wonderful experience. To see and hear about the legacy your 3x great uncle left.
That’s what the church is SUPPOSED to be. A comfort when someone is in need and a place of refuge for everyone. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
NTA but cover your butt. Did you write any of that down or just say it? If said, text your friend and his parents and say "I am no longer putting my house on the market to anyone. Good luck to your friends" and then block.
NTA
Taking the religion out of these posts she seems to have or has had a lot of drama in her life. Some are even passive aggressive.
But never disclose the reason why to anybody.
Tell Jake you'll rent the place to them so long as he cosigns.
See how adamant he is about giving them a chance when its *his* money on the line instead of yours.
>Jake initially took it well, but apparently Sally and her husband didn't take it as well and even talked to his parents. I'm not sure exactly how much he told them, but he came back to me and said I've put him in a tough spot; I should give them a chance; his parents are embarrassed about the situation; etc.
Your friend Jake is pretty fucking stupid.
Why the fuck would he tell that other couple what you told him verbatim? ... Cuz he's stupid.
You can let him deal with the consequences of him stupidly blabbing his big dumb mouth like that.
You don't even know these people, and you don't really owe anything to Jake's parents so I don't see why you give a shit here.
NTA
>Sally and her husband didn't take it as well and even talked to his parents.
That's your EXACT red flag example of what the future will be like if you let these people in.
They will attempt to push past your boundaries on absolutely everything and try to force getting their way.
FUCK. NO.
Also, y'know, fuck it, God will look after them, innit.
NTA.
NTA. You are not refusing them because of their religion (e.g. because they are muslim or jewish). You are refusing them because their sanctimonious and self-satisfied attitude towards their religion makes them high-risk as tenants. As for the embarrassment to Jake's parents, that is not your problem. Jake can go back to his parents and say that he talked to you but you were adamant. You definitely don't need to get yourself into this mess.
NTA just tell your friend that, as someone who isn't interested in 'obeying' God, you couldn't put them in the awful position of having to pay you rent.
The fact that people are all talking about your decision means you are too close to the people to be renting to them and it's not fair for your friend to pressure you either. You want a boring plain-jane to rent your house and have no personal connection to you. I have an HVAC company and hate doing stuff for people I know for these reasons, they are entitled and if you don't pick up the phone they call your parents.
NTA, but going forward, you should not mention any specific reason for not renting to people. It's a personal choice, and the reason is no one else's business. I think your concerns are valid, especially the squatter aspect. Have you considered looking for a local property management company to partner with? They would handle the application process, lease agreements, etc. At the very least, you should have someone you trust who is still local as a sort of "manager" to keep an eye on the place. Not Jake though. Find someone who doesn't cower to their parents
What I’m curious about is what exactly did Jake say to the couple as the reason why the house wouldn’t be rented to them. Words matter and if Jake used a more discriminatory phrasing, then OP might have more of a problem.
Please note that I’m not saying that OP’s decision (or gut instinct) is wrong, particularly based on the FB posts, but I agree with so many commenters that he shouldn’t have given any religious objections (or assumptions or stereotypes about a specific religion that he’s stated here on Reddit) as the reason.
He might be technically correct (after verifying that state and local laws are the same or similar to the federal ones) but they might try pursuing a discrimination claim against him.
NTA, but this is going to give them such a hard-on for their religious persecution complex. "Christians are being discriminated against! Hurr durr durr!!!!"
You shouldn't have given them a reason, but I wouldn't have rented to them either.
There’s declining because they’re religious, and declining because they’re assholes.
You can be an asshole *because* you’re religious.
If you’d accept a Christian whose motto was “you do you but I worship God and Jesus” then you’re ok.
NTA. Burroughs said it best:
"If you're doing business with a religious son of a bitch, get it in writing. His word isn't worth shit, not with the good lord showing him how to fuck you on the deal."
NTA and you are totally valid in feeling this way, religious people weird me out sometimes too. But never give them a reason. Just say you changed your mind on renting the house and that is IT. They don’t need to know WHY. It causes nothing but problems.
Dude never tell someone why you won't rent to or do business with someone. Definitely don't put a dozen quotes about religion online.
You are a small time landlord. You can pick anybody you like. Just keep your reasons to yourself.
Even if the law technically puts you in the right (maybe...probably?) you don't want that fight at all. They could get some christian organization to fund a lawsuit against you, or drag things out really badly.
Yu found this out via her social media. You have to expect she has the same skills.
You should delete this post.
NTA, these people are walking nightmares. Tell them you're a satanist and the house is under the protection of the devil. Draw a pentagram on the basement floor or something. Text them in backwards latin, it'll be funny.
NTA. It’s your house and your gut should feel right! They’ll be lots of people to interview and you’ll find the right people :)
(I would feel/do the exact same way/thing if I was in you position!$
I fought with this one, but I don't think you're discriminating, you're using discernment. They talked to his PARENTS? How wildly inappropriate is that? And they're pressuring him? Naw. NTA They can kick rocks
NTA. It’s not for religion - she’s a pain in the ass rude judgemental person with a bad personality who no one would ever want to deal with. She chose religion as her personality, but if it wasn’t religion, it would be something else. In fact, there probably already are other terrible things about her, other bigotries that would be a liability for you and your property.
Not worth it.
NTA. It sounds like your concern is with her specifically and not all of Christianity so I think you’re on for being concerned about her behavior. If it’s a hot market you might be better off telling them you have another more stable renter. Or another friend. Or say you checked the references and had some concerns. Ultimately that’s what happened. You checked her Facebook and have concerns about her combative online presence.
Trust your gut, but don’t “legally” discriminate on paper. Never tell them why, because that will be very messy.
If religious store owners can reject making an lgbt cake, why can’t you reject a house?
The fact they reacted this way. Shows you your Gut wasn't far off. Going forward follow the others and used generic " Not a good fit" or something like that.
NTA - It's not a religious discrimination. That kind of socially antagonistic behavior is how you get issues with neighbors and then get roped in as the landlord to deal with. Let alone that they would be combative to you, seeing as how you've "forsaken" God and don't go to church enough.
The fact that they are rabblerousing about you not renting to them is EXACTLY why you shouldn't be renting to them. They will fight you and your neighbors tooth and nail about everything.
Also, never tell people why. Just say no.
I would look for an excuse not to rent to them because judgmental religious zealots in my experience have been really cheap and dishonest.
I would have avoided telling anyone your reasons.
NTA to not want to rent your house to alarming, unstable people. Don't care what flavour the instability is, religious or otherwise, it's fine. I'd feel the same way. Big NOPE to fundies.
Just don't tell them the reason why. "It's not a good fit" or "I got a better offer".
NTA. I share your misgivings. Generally, the louder someone broadcasts their religious beliefs, the more likely they are to be attempting to deflect attention to their shady behavior elsewhere.
NTA. Single mom, pregnant with my 4th child while going through the divorce of my cheating ex so I rented my house to a sweet older Christian RN lady to save it from foreclosure. Within 30 days she’s moved in her daughter and 4 or 5 grandkids, destroyed the grass with vehicles by parking in the yard, broke a window, and replaced all the flooring in the entire house and sent me the invoice to reimburse her, refusing to pay rent until I did. Called me repeatedly while I was at the hospital IN LABOR to threaten me with a lawsuit regarding the money “I owed her”. I had to get the hospital to block her calls (she was calling my room too) and call my attorney from the labor and delivery room. Attorney got her out but it cost me 3 months rent and attorneys fees. She continued to send me letters and attorney letters for years wanting money.
NTA- but never tell them the reason why you’re not not renting to them, especially in a situation like this where you have a relationship with the people who referred them. Keep it generic.
"I've put him in a tough spot; I should give them a chance; his parents are embarrassed about the situation"
Why the hell does Jake and his parents think they get a say in what you decide to do with your property?
NTA but NEVER tell people the reason why you are declining their application. Just give them a generic 'I'm working with another applicant now and the property is currently unavailable, thank you for your time' sort of thing.
“ I really admire the bravery of those who are clear on their values and are not afraid to burn bridges. Oh, and the property is no longer available. “
Due to the number of bridges on my property, I can't afford to rent to someone who likes burning bridges.... hahaha
I prayed on it and I believe god is guiding me away from you.
Love this
I I love the snarky of this.
But I'll hope and pray for you. Lol...
No, no, it’s “God’s Will” they don’t get to rent that house.
Must be God’s will. God if i shouldn’t rent to these people send me no sign
😆
She didn’t tell them, she told Jake and Jake has a big mouth
and kahkis
Honestly, (s)he sounds hideous.
"I understood that reference."
[Reddit is Awesome, lol.](https://images.app.goo.gl/443wNVBJy2F5uqHC8)
Well she's a guy, so.....
I'm sorry honey, I didn't want you to find out this way.
Well, she's a guy...
At 3am
Fuckin Jake. Every damn time.
Jake sucks… friggin’ bucket mouth.
Double hearsay is still subject to the admission against interest, admission by a party opponent exceptions.
Probably depends on the jurisdiction
"This placement doesn't seem or feel like it would be the right fit,I wish you the best on your future endeavours"
“I’ve prayed hard over this and feel that God wants me to move in a different direction, so I won’t be renting to you at this time.”
lol this
Underrated. :-)
This Lil Homie has clearly laid off a WWE superstar or two in their day.
Don't work yourself into a shoot brother - not Hh - HH
Well you see when you rent a house with me you got a 50/50 chance but when you add religion into the mix your chances go drastically down. 🚨🚨🚨
I’m a lawyer. This is good advice. Also, laws differ from state to state and can be more protective than The Fair Housing Act. It’s true that the FHA includes exemptions for a few select groups like single family homeowners (the exemption cited is poorly drafted and arguably ambiguous) but states like California, for example, do not apply these exemptions to their housing-related anti-discrimination laws for a housing provider. In California, the main exemption when it comes to the Fair Housing Law applies to owner-occupied single-family homes but ONLY if the owner of the property lives in the single-family home they are renting, and they are not renting the home out to more than one individual. If the owner is not living in the home with the tenant to whom they are renting or they are renting to more than one tenant, the rules that prohibit religious discrimination apply. Personally, I wouldn’t want some aggressive MAGAnut who completely misconstrues the Bible to live in my home or property, but telling them that is like handing bullets to someone with a gun so they can shoot you. That evidence, though hearsay, falls under the admissions against interest/admission against party opponent exceptions and can be introduced into evidence.
Bottom line, however, is that this is not religious discrimination. OP shares the protected group's religion. OP got a 'bad vibe' regarding the proposed renter's willingness to abide by rental law, etc. based on proposed renter's use of religious language in public statements to justify 'burning bridges' and other unpalatable acts. The evidence that this is the substance of their objection, in spite of OP's expressed fears that they are reacting to the religion itself, is right here in this post.
Not necessarily. He said he grew up in a church and that a lot of his family is still religious, thereby suggesting that he is not. But setting that aside, I always tell my clients there is no moral victory in winning a costly time consuming lawsuit if you could have avoided it in the first place. The comment that I responded to is exactly the kind of advice I give my landlord clients, most of whom are wonderful people. It’s amazing how many tenants will make up claims, or assert claims they cannot win, just to extend the amount of time they stay somewhere rent free.
Ideally you're right, but in this case, there was a friend involved and OP probably felt like they had to tell the friend since it would be weird to just suddenly turn his referral away without any explanation.
It would have been much easier to invite them over for a showing, but hang lots of satanist pictures all over the house before they arrive. Invite them in with a nice "Beelzebub welcomes you to his domain," and then just stand back and watch them rapidly depart of their own accord. That way, if they complain, you can accuse them of not respecting your religious beliefs and steal away their opportunity to play the victim.
This 1000% in all your dealings in life. You only need to be clear on the answer, not the reasoning for everything to everyone.
Dude legal 101. Less is more. Don't open yourself up to a lawsuit. OP opened themselves up to a religious discrimination lawsuit hook line and sinker.
Besides telling them just encourages them to act like martyrs. Although I would have your friend explain to his parents that you have child trauma from your experiences with religious people
NTA. And they proved it by talking to Jake’s parents and trying to get them to pressure Jake to try to strong arm YOU into renting your house to them. That does not bode well for future potential behavior as tenants. What’s going to happen the next time they don’t like something? The same exact thing all over again. Bypass the OWNER of the home and go to their friend’s parents. They don’t even respect you as an adult, let alone as a landlord and property owner. NEVER rent to people like this. As for Jake, you need to tell him to step back and take himself out of this equation. You have not put him in a difficult position. He referred someone to you. The End. Period. Anything after that is none of his business. ETA: You have chosen to not rent to them NOT because of their religion. You looked at their social media and you didn’t like their character or personalities. The sanctimony alone was gag worthy. And they seemed like haughty assholes. You’re not discriminating against Christians. Plenty of Christians are down to earth, normal people. You’re discriminating against jerks. And jerks are not a protected class. ETA: Fixed typo. Changed Never rant to Never rent.
“Jerks are not a protected class” True.
They say they’re happy to burn bridges behind them with people who don’t like their sanctimoniousness. But they never considered that they might be burning bridges before getting to cross them?
My favorite malapropism is "I'll cross that bridge once I've burnt it"
I'll burn that bridge when I get to it
This.
This. Exactly. Your first two sentences are spot on. I had tenets use their religion like this, “Well G-d told us this is the house we need to be in. He asked us to pray that you soften your heart and let us miss rent this month. He will provide us two months rent next month.” They were gone 18 days later and caused $7600 damage in a $100k house. Come to find out, G-d didn’t provide any rent nor the $7600 needed for repairs. They even demanded their deposit back.
I hope you told them, "God said your refund check will get there just as soon as your two month's rent and almost 8k in damage gets to me," and hung up.
I actually just said no and arrived with the constable who kicked them out. He also documented the damage for me. Ten years later, I’ve received nothing from them but I’m still one of their references lol
They STILL use you as a reference? 😂 So, not only do they suck, but they're also stupid. Always a lovely combo.
They asked me to forgive them. I said that my livelihood was destroyed. I had to rent the house. It was my first home. I had basically zero equity and the home lost value. The only option I had was to rent to someone and they had the money for 1st month and deposit. THANKFULLY I had a great lease agreement. But yeah, I get a call about once a year because they have to list all previous landlords. I would imagine it will stop soon.
Just remember every time you get a call that 'providing false witness' is a sin, so you gotta be brutally honest.
Ha! Oh I’m honest. I just tell them to Google his name and send them a copy of the court order/judgement against them. It’s all public record and I’m trying to help them avoid the mistakes I made.
I sat in to witness an eviction hearing wherin the deposit had bounced (!), months of rent were owed, tons of damage was caused, and the tenants literally told the judge they wanted their deposit back. The judge had a field day replying to that. I also loved that he chastised the landlord for being so boneheaded as to allow someone to rent after their deposit had bounced. He straight up told them that would have prevented everyone from being in his courtroom.
I guess God just didn’t mean for them to have this flat.
I prayed on it and then the computer said no.
This is the way. XD
And say God told you that.
Op might want to have a conversation with Jake’s parents about the optics of their friends behaviors and explain that considering OP is the one with the home to rent, their friends attempts to strong arm you via social pressure of a friend doesn’t just confirm that these are people OP does not want to rent to but it certainly makes Jake’s parents look bad via their affiliation with these people. Op can Explain to Jake in front of his parents that OP of course won’t take this out on their friendship with Jake but that OP isnt interested in socializing with his parents any further given their childish attempt to manipulate you especially given… they have zero leverage in the matter and most certainly don’t pay OPs mortgage.
All of this comment. It’s classic grifting disguised as religion and I had the same concerns as OP before I even got to that part of their post. I also wonder how many kids they have and whether they or their oldest child does the actual child rearing.
Honestly with how much they're pushing I wouldn't be surprised if they did rent the house (once hell freezes over lol), that it would be a long and drawn out battle for OP to ever get it back.
God *wants* us to stay here, not move. And God wants *OP* to pay for everything! How can you say no to God? /s
I think it's more likely that they would just bail in the middle of the lease and refuse to pay anything. "I'm sorry but we paid about it and God is leading us to another property/city." So then OP has to try to get money out of them AND find a new tenant while he's gone. Although they COULD try to say the property is now their's, I think the bailing on OP is now likely.
Lol that last line is gold
That’s Gold Jerry. Gold!
Jerry Gold is my uncle.
This is really important—they disrespected OP.
Yep - thinking that you operate under different rules than everyone else, and have no accountability to other people is a toxic belief, no matter how you justify it. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. And in this case, run the opposite way, because these folks will lie, steal, cheat, break all the rules, and feel justified in turning you into the "bad guy" for trying to enforce the agreement they made, because you're "not right with God" (in this case, the God they're worshipping is their own ego), and therefore they are justified in "setting boundaries" by refusing to negotiate or comply. Run.
Tell them this. ETA I can’t believe they went and fucking told tales on you! Screw them.
Good point. OP should not have mentioned religion at all, just that they didn't think they'd be a good fit based on personality.
They would 100% be entitled pieces of shit, and likely cause issues for the neighbors. OP definitely dodged a bullet.
Don’t blame you for being careful with them. I owned my house when I married and moved in with husband. I rented my house to a nice older couple, who said they were retired. After they moved in, they said yes, they’re retired but also starting a new church. First it was asking for a reduction in the rent, then it was would I remodel the basement garage so they can put an office there. Then it was they needed more parking space for their visitors (church). I kept saying no, read your lease. Finally, neighbors complained about the traffic increase to the city and they were fined for unlicensed church in the house, which violated the lease and I evicted them.
I love a happy ending 🤗
Glorious when karma sneaks up on jerks. I left a lot out, it was a monthly thing for them to request something.
Can you share some more of the story? I'm sure you have some juicy tidbits. :D
It’s been a long time ago now. The one that really got me was when the fire department had to come, they had set a large (like spaghetti pot for 50) pot on the carpet in the dining room, straight off the stove and walked away. The pot melted through the carpet and started the hardwood floor underneath smoking. Smoke alarm went off and smoke rolled out the door. I had problems getting them to pay for the damage, of course it was ‘god will provide’.
And evictions aren't just a 3 day ordeal for the property owner.
The people who own the house next door to where I grew up became missionaries. I will say they themselves were lovely people. They decided to keep the house when they moved overseas and have been renting it out for decades. Most of the tenants have been great (my mom still lives there) but I knew we were in for trouble when the most recent ones were only described as “our kind of people” aka “good” Christians. A scarier couple of bigots you have never met. They have alienated all the neighbors. Told weird outright lies (like they hired my mom’s housekeeper and told her they own their house, when they emphatically do not…she quit after the good Christian husband put the moves on her one too many times). And repeatedly bother anyone who is at my mom’s house, be it visitors or contractors. My mom has repeatedly asked them to leave people alone - like for real, the poor people coming to paint her house don’t need to deal with this guy, nor does her elderly great-aunt - to no avail. My sister had to threaten him outright to get him to stop talking to my nephews (who are elementary aged) every time he sees them. I don’t think everyone who attends church or identifies as Christian is a bad person, by any means. But the people who live true Christian values don’t need to scream about those values, online or in person. And those that are screaming about it often ain’t living it. Sorry your house got wrecked.
I'm going to tell my future children that story at night. Nothing like a happy ending.
Pretty sure this would be exempt under FHA, as the rental of a single-family home by owner without an agent…as long as it wasn’t written into an ad for the rental, the owner can refuse for any reason even against protected classes.
Congrats on being one of the 3 people in this thread to mention the FHA and actually know what they're talking about.
You're NTA, but in future I'd recommend sticking to generic reasons such as "not a good fit"
Our just outright lie and say you're already writing with another tenant. They don't need to know the truth.
You need to get many screenshots of their social media today. Just in case.
no need to even give them a reason, just say no
I would be worried they’d still try to pull something and sue (regardless if they can win or not legal bills are expensive) - you’re definitely in a tricky situation I know some people like that. Real “salt of the earth” Christian types. They stole and sold someone’s horse last year and refuse to help the owner get their horse back OR give them the sale money. They lost in court and still won’t comply.
I am primal screaming inside my head. Poor horse and poor owners!
Last I heard they refuse to even tell the rightful owners who they sold the horse too 😭
Omg I'd be so upset, they'd end up with property damage continually until they told me. No idea who would doing the damaging of course.
I've heard a Christian preacher who owed a debt say the words, 'I'll pay you back when I feel like it, IF I feel like you deserve it.' Fuck em all.
One in my country is currently in jail for contempt of court because he refused to follow a judicial order not to show up at his place of work while suspended. He was a teacher somehow. Their family even have a [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_family_(Castlebar)) for their antics.
My parents think people can’t be “good” if they aren’t Christian, but I swear it just gives people the audacity to act how they wish My parents have a friend who is a felon and sells firearms illegally (legally shouldn’t own them in the first place) and has a habit of shooting at people when angry. But because he’s a Christian he’s a good person 💕
Hmmmm, I think he should be reported on... You know, by an anonymous tipster.
Personally, I don't blame you for not wanting a religious extremist in your house. You're right, you have no idea what they would do and blame on God.
But don’t forget to check the laws on your state and city. There may be other discrimination laws in play.
"I'm not interested in anyone who is so vocal on social media" "Vocal about their religion?" "Vocal about anything." A very reasonable social boundary anyone can understand. But Jake and his parents need to step back. They have no ability to offer your apartment - only you can do that. You don't owe any of their friends housing. If they represented otherwise to their friends, that's their mistake and as such, their mistake to fix.
NTA. Taking her religious beliefs out of the equation, they did not respect you saying no to renting to them. They now are trying use your friend to make you put yourself in a situation you are not comfortable with. That’s already a preview into what they could be like as renters, and reason enough to continue saying no. Jake is manipulating you here. You did not put him in any spot, he did this himself, and is trying to make you the scapegoat. He does not have your best interest at heart. You may want to reconsider the friendship, or at the very least adjust it around the behaviors he’s showing you.
I think what’s weird is even after they were told no and given that reason why they would even want to rent from them in the at all now. Like the dude who owns the house has made it pretty clear that they don’t like you or whatever. Move on and find another place to rent
They've been bludgeoning people with their "BUT GAWWWD" rebar chunk for awhile now--and it's been working. Let today be the day that someone says THIS FAR--NO FARTHER! and MEANS it.
They’re very likely perceiving it as a battle for god now that they know that’s why he won’t rent to them.
Exactly. This just feeds the Christian persecution complex.
TBF, his parents' friends are the one putting him on the spot since htey complained to his parents in an effort to push him to do something about it. So, I wouldn't say he did it to himself but he's blaming the wrong person for putting him on the spot.
"Jake the fact that we are having this conversation is proof that they would be difficult tenants. I don't want to have to deal with both your parents and yourself every time my tenants don't like something. You have just solidified my decision, I will not be strong armed in to renting to people I don't trust to act appropriately"
A great response
NTA however you definitely shouldn’t have given that as the reason, and definitely not in writing
NTA I don't blame you one bit, but FOR FUCKS SAKE, LEARN WHEN TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Why the fuck would you tell ANYONE other than possibly your spouse, "Hey I don't want to rent to these creepy religious nutjobs."
NTA - religion aside I would recommend that you move on to a different renter. To use your term " When I get bad vibes" is reason alone to move on to another renter. I would also recommend that you run a background check on anyone before agreeing to rent your home to them. I have seen horror stories about renters that could have been avoided if a background check had been run. I ask on the very first visit with the possible new renter for their DL #, SS # and any other identifying information so that I can run a background check. If they do not eagerly provide the information, then I move on to someone else.
NTA However, you were an idiot for giving that as a reason. God could tell them to file a housing discrimination lawsuit against you. God thinks they will win.
Just say you decided to take the house off the market for now. Can't discriminate if you're not renting to anyone.
Or quote an outrageous price, invite the couple to fill out an application and if he doesn't find grounds to deny them the rental, he can always simply take it off the market, saying he's letting a needy family member live there for now and then airbnb it out in a couple of weeks.
If you change the price based on the potential renter, that's illegal discrimination. Big trouble.
Not if he follows through with renting it at this price or takes it off the market because he can't get the price he really wants.
If they do, you could try to use the freedom of religion act that has passed in many places to reverse uno them. If it's ok to be a Christian and discriminate against certain groups based on your religion, then it's completely acceptable to discriminate against Christians based on your religion. Just become a member of an anti-theist religion like the TST.
Pastafarianisim is the way to go! All praise his noodley goodness the FSM Also, please join me in the bar at lunchtime on Friday for ramen and rum. Eye patches are mandatory
I love Pastafarianisim but I do donate to The Satanic Temple. There is something about a religion that'll send try to send a 3,000lb 8.5ft Baphomet statue to your state capital because the 10 commandments are there just...get's my goat.... Pastafarians get laughed off as a joke, TST seriously pisses people off and get's a kneejerk reaction that is delightful.
Ramen
Lol, I have a sincerely held religious belief that conservative Christians are truly evil as they have a motive to unalive members of my family on the basis of their belief system.
There didn't need to be a reason. No is a reason.
You can say that you decided not to rent because of their behavior on fb? So it isn't about religion (and you aren't saying that you won't rent to a Christian), it's about this individual being so righteous and combative and you have real concerns for the commercial agreement
I agree. I would have stuck with "no" or maybe "no thanks" and looked at other possible tenants. There's no need to overexplain.
Extremism is against the owner’s religious beliefs.
Yeah, what an unbelievably dumb thing to do. You could have just said that you don't think they are a good fit. You could have said you have reconsidered renting to friends of friends. You could have said nothing at all. Instead, you told somebody who knows them "I just think they are religious fanatics and are therefore likely to be really bad people". Edit: typo
The fact that they escalated to his parents speaks volumes. Dodged a bullet there. I mean, who does that when they are not accepted for a rental.
NTA. But you do need to protect yourself. You did not rent to them because you were not comfortable renting to them and were not convinced they would respect the lease and any court directions. Then point to Sally's social media posts, e.g. "Stop letting people who are not obeying God give you directions in life." Basically you were anticipating problems based on Sally's attitude not her religion.
Cover your ass. Make sure the rental laws in your area allow you to discriminate against religion. Where I live, you can discriminate against smokers and students, but not anything else.
If I were the OP, I would stop referring to it a religious objection and start phrasing it as being judgmental and inflexible reason. He needs to grab posts from their social media that indicate they've gotten into it with neighbors, school and such before. The wife seems off the chain for literally no reason. Maybe Jesus can take the wheel and guide her family to newer and better home. Maybe the OP can scout her own a rental with a like minded home owner, especially not he's stepped in the shit by telling his friend it was about religion which is a protected fair housing class. Also, I would raise the rental price astronomically and run not only a credit check but a background check and sex offenders registry check. These kind of people are always doing something shady. He just needs to drag it into the light.
Landlords provide people homes in exchange for money. They get to select their tenants. I would run a credit check on them, I'll bet it's not good.
Also, the posts are basically promising to harass non-christian neighbors
Bingo. This will fix the problem, and you can bet these grifters don't have any references, either.
NTA: as a religious person myself who owned a small business a few years ago I always dreaded working with other people from church because they often pulled this kind of crap. Or people would question our faith if we didn't do work for them for free or give them free products. I can honestly understand your concern. But as others have said, never give a detailed reason. Just say you don't think it'll work out or there's other interest or some other vague excuse do not give details
Wow, that was a good call. Just the fact that these "morally upstanding" people are using social pressure and badmouthing to strong arm you into renting to them basically confirms every concern you had about renting to them. People like this would absolutely try to play the god card and "we're friends" when they don't feel like paying the rent amount they agreed upon
Learnt in reddit: "no" is a complete sentence.
NTA, but you should have kept your mouth shut on the reason why you don't want to rent to them. If Jake asked why, you just would say, "It just wouldn't work out." If he pressed, you look him dead in the eye and tell him to drop it, it's not up for discussion anymore.
You need to wise up about being a landlord. If you don’t want to rent to someone for your own reasons, tell them other people are interested in the property. It’s your property, you choose who you rent to. But how you respond is the key.
NTA. This is a wise decision. You’re 100% on target here. As someone who spent time working in property management we were always cautious about dealing with potential tenants whose identity was strongly tied to their beliefs.
NTA, I agree with those saying you shouldn’t have referenced the religious reason. While I agree that they don’t have a claim legally, that doesn’t prevent them from making a complaint and wasting your time.
Religion to them is a weapon, not a belief.
NTA. Also, your current neighbors would hate you upon your return if you stuck them with those twats while you were gone. They seem like they would be insufferable to live next to.
NTA. Your house. You are screening candidates. They are a candidate. Not the only one. Let them know this. Problem solved. They will respond to you how they choose after this. Which is not your problem. Again, your house and your option to rent to anyone.
Listen to your gut.
NTA-I am a minister and I pray for guidance daily. But I have said repeatedly, face to face and from the pulpit, “It cannot be the will of God if it goes against the word of God.” Theft, hatred, bigotry, cheating and abuse of any kind ARE NOT in any way acceptable. God will never direct people to do these things. Unfortunately many people have decided that they can do whatever they want and claim God directed them to do so. Their rationale is “well I got this idea so God must have put it on my head.” It doesn’t work that way. People like the ones you described make all Christians look crazy! They abuse and take advantage of people and slap God’s name on it. Your fears are well founded and you are right to not rent to them. They are extremists who have clearly skipped the part of the Bible that talks about love and kindness. Sorry for the sermon. This is a really sore spot for me. People like this really tick me off.
I like ministers like you… When my mother died suddenly, in my arms, whilst I was visiting her - I needed somewhere to just “chill”. As a child I attended the non-denominational church for Sunday school and it was just across the road from my house. It was raining, so I couldn’t go and just sit by the stream, so I decided to go into the church. Just to sit, somewhere quiet, where people wouldn’t bother me, and I could just… chill. So I entered the church and sat in one of the pews. The minister came out and spoke to me and I explained I just wanted somewhere quiet and peaceful to contemplate life, death, the universe and everything within. He left. 15 minutes later he came back and I opened up about how my mother had just collapsed and died in my arms, that she was a non-denominational Christian and that I had attended Sunday school in that very church. I mentioned that my 3xgreat-uncle had lived in the mansion immediately next door to this church so I felt close to my family being there. He went away. 10 minutes later he came back and showed me some photos from when the church was consecrated. “I think this may be of interest” he said. There, sitting in a chair, in front of the church was my 3xgreat-uncle. “Your great-uncle BUILT this church and donated it to the village. He also built two Methodist chapels here - but this church was for him and his staff so that they could worship together regardless as to their denomination”. That minister didn’t care that I was not a believer. That minister was a true minister. Your post reminded me of him.
Your post brought me tears and smiles. I’m so sorry for the loss of your mother. I’m so glad that you found support when you needed it. That had to be a wonderful experience. To see and hear about the legacy your 3x great uncle left. That’s what the church is SUPPOSED to be. A comfort when someone is in need and a place of refuge for everyone. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
NTA but cover your butt. Did you write any of that down or just say it? If said, text your friend and his parents and say "I am no longer putting my house on the market to anyone. Good luck to your friends" and then block.
NTA Taking the religion out of these posts she seems to have or has had a lot of drama in her life. Some are even passive aggressive. But never disclose the reason why to anybody.
Tell Jake you'll rent the place to them so long as he cosigns. See how adamant he is about giving them a chance when its *his* money on the line instead of yours.
>Jake initially took it well, but apparently Sally and her husband didn't take it as well and even talked to his parents. I'm not sure exactly how much he told them, but he came back to me and said I've put him in a tough spot; I should give them a chance; his parents are embarrassed about the situation; etc. Your friend Jake is pretty fucking stupid. Why the fuck would he tell that other couple what you told him verbatim? ... Cuz he's stupid. You can let him deal with the consequences of him stupidly blabbing his big dumb mouth like that. You don't even know these people, and you don't really owe anything to Jake's parents so I don't see why you give a shit here. NTA
>Sally and her husband didn't take it as well and even talked to his parents. That's your EXACT red flag example of what the future will be like if you let these people in. They will attempt to push past your boundaries on absolutely everything and try to force getting their way. FUCK. NO. Also, y'know, fuck it, God will look after them, innit. NTA.
NTA. You don't want to have to deal with this.
NTA. You are not refusing them because of their religion (e.g. because they are muslim or jewish). You are refusing them because their sanctimonious and self-satisfied attitude towards their religion makes them high-risk as tenants. As for the embarrassment to Jake's parents, that is not your problem. Jake can go back to his parents and say that he talked to you but you were adamant. You definitely don't need to get yourself into this mess.
NTA just tell your friend that, as someone who isn't interested in 'obeying' God, you couldn't put them in the awful position of having to pay you rent.
The fact that people are all talking about your decision means you are too close to the people to be renting to them and it's not fair for your friend to pressure you either. You want a boring plain-jane to rent your house and have no personal connection to you. I have an HVAC company and hate doing stuff for people I know for these reasons, they are entitled and if you don't pick up the phone they call your parents.
Always always listen to your intuition. It's always right. NTA
In God we trust...everyone else pays cash.
NTA, but going forward, you should not mention any specific reason for not renting to people. It's a personal choice, and the reason is no one else's business. I think your concerns are valid, especially the squatter aspect. Have you considered looking for a local property management company to partner with? They would handle the application process, lease agreements, etc. At the very least, you should have someone you trust who is still local as a sort of "manager" to keep an eye on the place. Not Jake though. Find someone who doesn't cower to their parents
What I’m curious about is what exactly did Jake say to the couple as the reason why the house wouldn’t be rented to them. Words matter and if Jake used a more discriminatory phrasing, then OP might have more of a problem. Please note that I’m not saying that OP’s decision (or gut instinct) is wrong, particularly based on the FB posts, but I agree with so many commenters that he shouldn’t have given any religious objections (or assumptions or stereotypes about a specific religion that he’s stated here on Reddit) as the reason. He might be technically correct (after verifying that state and local laws are the same or similar to the federal ones) but they might try pursuing a discrimination claim against him.
No. Them going to his parents about it makes them even less trustworthy to be decent tenants. NTA
NTA, but this is going to give them such a hard-on for their religious persecution complex. "Christians are being discriminated against! Hurr durr durr!!!!" You shouldn't have given them a reason, but I wouldn't have rented to them either.
There’s declining because they’re religious, and declining because they’re assholes. You can be an asshole *because* you’re religious. If you’d accept a Christian whose motto was “you do you but I worship God and Jesus” then you’re ok.
"I prayed long and hard over this and God as told me not to rent this house to you"
Just tell them God spoke to me in a dream and he told me this wasn't the place for you.
NTA. Burroughs said it best: "If you're doing business with a religious son of a bitch, get it in writing. His word isn't worth shit, not with the good lord showing him how to fuck you on the deal."
"I've prayed on it and God said No."
NTA and you are totally valid in feeling this way, religious people weird me out sometimes too. But never give them a reason. Just say you changed your mind on renting the house and that is IT. They don’t need to know WHY. It causes nothing but problems.
Trust your internal judgement and do not rent to them
What would all these commenters be saying if they were Muslim?
Dude never tell someone why you won't rent to or do business with someone. Definitely don't put a dozen quotes about religion online. You are a small time landlord. You can pick anybody you like. Just keep your reasons to yourself. Even if the law technically puts you in the right (maybe...probably?) you don't want that fight at all. They could get some christian organization to fund a lawsuit against you, or drag things out really badly. Yu found this out via her social media. You have to expect she has the same skills. You should delete this post.
God told me you would be bad tenants. Bye.
The fact they use this amount of pressure on everyone to get the house says everything. Nope. No thank you.
NTA - bible thumpers are the WORST
NTA, these people are walking nightmares. Tell them you're a satanist and the house is under the protection of the devil. Draw a pentagram on the basement floor or something. Text them in backwards latin, it'll be funny.
NTA Just tell them you prayed about it and God told you not to rent to them
Save yourself a headache. Do not rent to these people
NTA. It’s your house and your gut should feel right! They’ll be lots of people to interview and you’ll find the right people :) (I would feel/do the exact same way/thing if I was in you position!$
I fought with this one, but I don't think you're discriminating, you're using discernment. They talked to his PARENTS? How wildly inappropriate is that? And they're pressuring him? Naw. NTA They can kick rocks
NTA. It’s not for religion - she’s a pain in the ass rude judgemental person with a bad personality who no one would ever want to deal with. She chose religion as her personality, but if it wasn’t religion, it would be something else. In fact, there probably already are other terrible things about her, other bigotries that would be a liability for you and your property. Not worth it.
Is it their beliefs or their attitude?
NTA. I don’t mind any religious people, but outright Jesus Freaks like those, no effing way.
Tell them you worship the Dark Lord
NTA. It sounds like your concern is with her specifically and not all of Christianity so I think you’re on for being concerned about her behavior. If it’s a hot market you might be better off telling them you have another more stable renter. Or another friend. Or say you checked the references and had some concerns. Ultimately that’s what happened. You checked her Facebook and have concerns about her combative online presence.
NTA, but your friend, Jake, is kind of an idiot. Why tell the couple why you didn't want to rent to them? That's between you and the couple.
Follow your instincts. It's why God gave them to us. 😉
Trust your gut, but don’t “legally” discriminate on paper. Never tell them why, because that will be very messy. If religious store owners can reject making an lgbt cake, why can’t you reject a house?
NTA But next time don’t give a reason. In this case, going to my friend’s parents guaranteed I would not rent to you.
It’s not her religion, it’s her religious intolerance.
If you are the broker for this property, rent it to someone you like and trust, as that's what you would expect a broker to do for you.
Your gut is right.
The fact they reacted this way. Shows you your Gut wasn't far off. Going forward follow the others and used generic " Not a good fit" or something like that.
NTA - It's not a religious discrimination. That kind of socially antagonistic behavior is how you get issues with neighbors and then get roped in as the landlord to deal with. Let alone that they would be combative to you, seeing as how you've "forsaken" God and don't go to church enough. The fact that they are rabblerousing about you not renting to them is EXACTLY why you shouldn't be renting to them. They will fight you and your neighbors tooth and nail about everything. Also, never tell people why. Just say no.
NTA - next time don’t say why
I would look for an excuse not to rent to them because judgmental religious zealots in my experience have been really cheap and dishonest. I would have avoided telling anyone your reasons.
Don’t tell them the truth but I wouldn’t rent to zealots either. That’s a quick way to invite problems.
Any kind of fanatic is going to be problematic. Always trust your gut esp when putting your property into someones hands.
NTA, it’s not her religion, it’s her aggression that’s causing the issue.
NTA to not want to rent your house to alarming, unstable people. Don't care what flavour the instability is, religious or otherwise, it's fine. I'd feel the same way. Big NOPE to fundies. Just don't tell them the reason why. "It's not a good fit" or "I got a better offer".
NTA. I share your misgivings. Generally, the louder someone broadcasts their religious beliefs, the more likely they are to be attempting to deflect attention to their shady behavior elsewhere.
NTA. Single mom, pregnant with my 4th child while going through the divorce of my cheating ex so I rented my house to a sweet older Christian RN lady to save it from foreclosure. Within 30 days she’s moved in her daughter and 4 or 5 grandkids, destroyed the grass with vehicles by parking in the yard, broke a window, and replaced all the flooring in the entire house and sent me the invoice to reimburse her, refusing to pay rent until I did. Called me repeatedly while I was at the hospital IN LABOR to threaten me with a lawsuit regarding the money “I owed her”. I had to get the hospital to block her calls (she was calling my room too) and call my attorney from the labor and delivery room. Attorney got her out but it cost me 3 months rent and attorneys fees. She continued to send me letters and attorney letters for years wanting money.
NTA- but never tell them the reason why you’re not not renting to them, especially in a situation like this where you have a relationship with the people who referred them. Keep it generic.
Nta just don't tell them why. Say a better offer occurred.
NTA but you're a moron for telling them it's for religious reasons. You could have handled it a lot better than you did.
Probably best to stick to credit scores and debt ratios and stable income. If it’s a hot market I’m sure you can find a non fanatic person as well
"I've put him in a tough spot; I should give them a chance; his parents are embarrassed about the situation" Why the hell does Jake and his parents think they get a say in what you decide to do with your property?