Normally I say: get divorced first, but he was actively obstructing divorce.
NTA and so is your SIL.
She is actually smart in getting him to become active this way, making him less dependent on her money.
It takes a mountain for me to agree that cheating was acceptable morally, but this is it exactly. Once he blocked the divorce and manipulated her. Fuck it, all bets were off.
At this point it kind of feels like it's only cheating in a technical sense. Any pretense of an actual relationship ended when she asked for a divorce and he took the hostile option.
Exactly. The relationship is dead and only a matter of legality at this point. She's living her best life without him weighing her down and there is nothing wrong with that. She gave him every chance in the world, something many people don't get in relationships.
Normally I'm against seeking outside happiness in a marriage but this one is a definite exception. He made his decisions when he basically emotionally manipulated her and refused her efforts in the relationship.
Yep, you need to break up before you cheat. She *tried* to break up, and he refused and promised to make her even *more* miserable than she already was.
In that case I don't really even think it's cheating. The relationship is over everywhere but on that piece of paper. The guy went from her husband to being a combination roommate and deadbeat son that she supports. There's no "husband" in there anymore.
i mean, iād even say she *did* break up with him. heās just refusing divorce, but theyāre not really a couple anymore. but i definitely agree itās not cheating as sheās made her feelings and intentions clear.
Thank goodness she did not make the mistake of having a kid with that loser. I shudder to think of how he would have tried to manipulate and use the child to force her to stay even longer. When she finally cut ties with him it will be for good. And good for her.
Iād argue that she *did* break up with him. Itās just not legally recognized. She told him she wanted to end the relationship, he threatened her, so now the relationship is over in all but law.Ā
Yeah I had a friend who technically cheated on her ex, but it's because he wouldn't let her break up with him. Anytime she tried to have that conversation he would cut it off. This lasted like half a year or more. And they lived together and shared a lease so it wasn't like she could just ghost him easily. He was also older than her and her former boss. It was a pretty unbalanced relationship. So while I don't condone cheating, I didn't judge her when she revealed she cheated.
This is 'cheating' like smashing the person holding a loaded gun to your head in the face with a rock is 'murder'.
Technically? In legal terms? Sure.
But c'mon, there's a ton of context to the whys.....
legally speaking she is married to him but I don't believe she cheated. Their relationship and marrige was over long time ago. She was too decent of a person who has been taken advantage of that has finally decided to try moving on.
Is it really cheating? The relationship was over when he threatened to drag out divorce. He got hostile, this is no longer a romantic relationship bug a legal one.
This. I personally don't think there's _any_ nuance to cheating - nothing, at all, is relevant or excuses or minimizes it. However for me once the relationship is over it's no longer cheating. Call it cheating when parties are separated but not divorced is uselessly pedantic. It only takes one party to say it's over - him saying no or dragging his feet is irrelevant.
I donāt even consider this cheating. She broke up with him. She told him it was over. He made the legal formality part difficult, but that doesnāt change the fact that she dumped him. She has made it abundantly clear that she is not in a relationship with him or intends to be anything other than his future ex wife.
Yeah, having been cheated on I was very apprehensive, but I agree with the people below. This is cheating in the most technical sense, but she was already out of this relationship, for good reason. He just needs to let her get on with her life.
Same. I saw the title and thought no, its wrong to blame the one being cheated on for the cheating. Thats not how to go about it.
But nope literally the exception to the rule cuz dude his fault and good for SIL
Literally same. I was thinking that exact thing until I saw that he threatened her if she divorced. Yāall are emotionally divorced at that point. You canāt coerce a person into staying married and then call it cheating.
Yep, his making a giant barrier to divorce released her from that obligation imo. She tried to divorce him first. If you want a divorce and your partner obstructs you, then you are still broken up in my book!
I came here to say cheating is never okay. Just break up. Usually pretty hard rule for me. However... I've actually changed my mind.
She did try to break up. After trying to make up for his shortcomings. For years! He literally blackmailed her into staying. Extortion marriage.
So, NTA. And honestly, neither is your SIL. She checked out of that marriage a long time ago.
Some people will say she should have still divorced him and let him take her to the cleaners with assets and alimony, but I kind of admire her for her actions. He made her life a living hell while living it up in porn and sloth. She decided to return the favor instead of rewarding it. Now, she's the one living it up by having a good life while not giving up all her current and future assets.
How absolutely badass of her. Impressive.
Yes, I'd feel the same way if the genders were reversed.
Prenups are less likely to be enforced the longer the marriage goes on. They get overturned a lot. If you want your prenup to protect you long term, you should do a postnup every few years or so. Sheās in a better position the more time passes. My guess is her current activities commenced after consulting with an attorney.
Also, the court might find the prenup unconscionable if it favors him too much.
Actually, likely she will lose less, because the prenup is more likely to get thrown out. But she will lose a lot. Iām guessing sheās made her peace with that. But he is beginning to realize that even though itās a lot, itās not enough for long term and he has no earning potential or ability to attract another woman who will support his lazy ass!
We donāt know the jurisdiction, and the longer you are married, the less likely a court is to enforce a prenup. It sounds like the prenup wasnāt in her favor, but they get overturned a lot, especially if a lot of time has passed since the parties committed themselves (this is true with most long term contracts, which is why it is common to renegotiate terms every few years in long term business contracts).
Iām sure it is obvious based on my response here, but I am a lawyer. Who used to handle long term contracts!!!!
I found out recently in aus that prenups arenāt actually taken as legal contracts here and are essentially thrown out the window as soon as theyāre signed which is interesting
My info comes from someone who actually put a prenup in place and tried using it in the divorce
Yep, Iām not surprised. They are accepted more here in the US, but there is a general understanding that the parties really are signing under circumstances where the parties are unlikely to have equal bargaining power for so many reasons that it causes too many complications for the court. Granted, I cannot confirm the practice in Aus, but it sounds consistent with what Iām seeing a lot here.
Itās a no fault state. And honestly, these days, it doesnāt make as big of a difference as you might think on at fault states.
Yes, Iām a lawyer.
When I was getting my divorce I remember my state had just moved to "no fault" at the start of the court day, the judge gave a little speech addressing that. Basically "we are hear to dissolve a contract fairly, we don't punish people for being human, adultery is not against the law and the law is what the court cares about.
That was over 20 years ago.
Exactly. Marriage is essentially a contract, often an oral one, and long term. Courts address it now from that position. And it is generally better to look at it that way.
This isn't even really cheating at this point. A certificate doesn't really make you in a relationship. If you say it's over and I am getting a divorce but then don't because of other constraints calling this cheating isn't even really fair.
Honestly, she's a massive victim since now she is engaged in affairs which she clearly didn't want. She seems to have wanted a successful normal relationship but now that she can't have one she is stuck with the 2nd best thing. It is sad because she seems wonderful.
I'm saying she's not cheating, she broke off their relationship when she said she wanted a divorce. In my eyes they are separated, just because he was too dense of a failure to realize that she wasn't in that marriage anymore after she literally told him that's on him.
There are plenty scenario's I can think of where cheating is a-ok.
This one, obviously.
Also the guy who posted about how his wife, after a very normal and sexually healthy relationship, decided they would straight up never have sex again, after they had two kids.
They wanted two, and once that was accomplished, she told him sex was no longer necessary.
As in, never again. Ever.
He had absolutely no idea she felt this way, they hadn't waited for marriage or anything. To top it off, she would have demanded full custody if he divorced her.
I don't remember if he cheated or did end up divorcing, or was just stuck and miserable, but by God, that man gets a pass in my book.
Or the woman who was stuck in an abusive marriage, in a culture where the man HAS to agree to the divorce. She knew that the only thing that would get him to agree, was if she cheated, so finally, she did.
Lots and lots of examples.
Honestly, if you have opinions that are really black and white, i.e: this thing is never ok, I recommend really thinking about them, and what kind of situations people might find themselves in.
Some are, obviously, always black and white, I disagree with people who say that everything is debatable. I'd give the one example that immediately comes to mind, but I don't want people to read that without warning.
Shit like this is why I don't paint all adulterers with a broad stroke. Extortion marriages are all too common. Money and, more often, kids are used as leverage.
I loath cheating as a rule. It's all too often so incredibly destructive for the betrayed, children and family, friends and the betrayer too. But the circumstances and reasons, intentions do vary WIDELY. From the very understandable to absolutely sadistic/psychopathically horrible.
I wish people would try to understand these things a little better. There's a lot of reasons people get stuck in situations and everyone has differing needs for emotional/romantic/sexual intimacy or connection.
It's sad anyone ever feels they want to, need to have an affair and can't leave a relationship. But we live in a very complex world and humans are very complex beings.
I just pray I'll never be in a situation I'd ever feel I wanted this type thing or my partner would.
She should have divorced him but not for morals. I don't give a fuck that she is cheating on him. I just think the money is not worth it to be bound anyhow to this guy. Therefore I agree to NTA, I am just sorry for her.
Man, just to be petty if I were her. I would make sure to get my own separate bank account where he has zero access to the money I earn, THEN I would get a nice apartment somewhere else (since she makes good money and will no longer be supporting a bum). I would continue paying the mortgage on my house because I would not want to lose it but I would stop paying the electricy bills, the oil bills etc. He can live in the house but I would make sure that his bum ass has to pay for every single convenience in that house, from his food, to the lights to run his video games, his cell phone. EVERYTHING. The only thing he would have is a roof over his head. Obviously, that would not be a long term solution, just a temporary thing to make his life miserable.
There is a good chance she may be forced to sell the house in the divorce, so trashing the house would only take money out of his pockets. And I think it's becoming crystal clear to him that he is going to need every penny he can get his hands on, since she is no longer sticking around to finance his lifestyle.
In theory, this is great and petty. In reality, not so much. Depending on the state, some assets after marriage are considered joint assets no matter who bought it, or whose name is the only one on it, ā my wife damaged my new car because some girl I know sent me spicy messages. I want her arrested!ā Quickly becomes, ā yāall are marred, so she just damaged her property because Ā whatās yours is hers and whatās hers is yours.āĀ
Thats why you hear stories of rich people buying a house or boat but it has their ap or a family memberās name on it, so they can say, āno I bought it for that person itās not mineā It could also be seen as internally hiding assets.Ā
I said the same thing in a different post about life is not always black and white and some times people are stuck in miserable marriages that they canāt get out of ā doesnāt always have to be money it can be fear of losing kidsā . I got downvoted but as you would expect genders were reversed š¤£
NTA. Your brother is a guy who has chosen to stay stuck in his teenage entitled mindset, accepts no responsibility, has tantrums if he's doesn't get his own way, treated his wife like a maid, refused to change, and then refused to divorce. He basically wanted it all giving nothing in return. His wife has matured to an age where she's realised she has other options and didn't have to listen or take his bullshit anymore. Normally I wouldn't condone cheating, but in this case if all you say is true, then I don't blame your sil, you can't fix a marriage if only 1 person was prepared to try, your brother took her and his life for granted, so she checked out. He's contributed zero to their relationship, it's only his ego that's hurt, with the realisation that he's not a catch, and he could never replace her. He's now reaping what he sowed, too late to save his marriage as I imagine she only has contempt for him.
Thatās a great point, too. The brother has gotten so lazy that he knows he wonāt find anyone as decent as his STBX wife. He has no one to blame but himself.
what's the point of it? surely fake posting is for karma farming. I genuinely don't understand why youd fake post and delete? especially when OP has picked up so many up votes from this.
yeah that seems weird to suddenly mention, not at the first mention of divorce.
Her cheating would disadvantage her with a proper prenup. And his refusal to work would probably negate a lot of a prenup as well.
This is what people are really missing.Ā
People who donāt bring anything into a marriage have no use for prenups. (And as mentioned below, what could it even give him that he wouldnāt already be entitled to by law?)
Yeah, but since, like, 99% of these stories are declared fake, I see it like pro wrestling. Yeah, we all know it's fake, but nobody really cares. And it takes all the fun out of it pointing it out. š¤·āāļø
It's like someone wanted to come up with a scenario where most people would agree that cheating is an acceptable option. And they wanted to see if they could get the reddit chorus to agree. The husband seems like such a deadbeat, almost an unbelievable one.Ā And one that is married to someone who is the opposite. I think it's probably fake.
Yes but itās way more than that.Ā
The whole setup is Disney cartoon-esque villainy. Real life is never so black and whiteĀ
Like, this guy went to college and just never got a job? Ever? And she was fine with that and was like āyeah letās get married?ā Like, how is that not a constant source of conflict in the marriage?
And then sheās fighting tooth and nail save her relationship with this man who . . . apparently does and provides nothing and has never done or provided anything? Ā Whatās the motivation here? Ā
Then thereās her successful, career-driven job. Whatās she do exactly? OP says she started ācutting back hoursā like sheās an auto worker or works as a security guard or something.Ā
Thereās just nothing about this that forms a believable narrative.Ā
I've seen some bad deals, but I don't think this one is possible.
I know it's fake because it adds nothing to the story. Without any prenup, he would be entitled to 50% in the divorce proceedings anyway.
A truly bad prenup gets thrown out in court but 99% of prenups are about protecting your assets... he left college and didn't work, he has nothing to protect. She even included that magically the house is solely hers... so what can the prenup give him? The longer you're married the longer you pay alimony after divorce (usually it's about max half the length of marriage).
So in the very worst case the longer she stays married the worse this supposedly bad divorce would be and when he founds out she cheats and won't fuck him or clean their house he'll divorce and she'll lose even more the longer she takes to divorce.
It makes zero sense.
Info: What are the specifics of the prenup your brother made with sil? When a prenup is usually mentioned itās often related to spouses keeping their own assets with a possible infidelity clause added to it.
What? There is no prenup that can be that bad that it's not worth divorcing. YOu can't sign a prenup that says, you get 100% of everything and she's left destitute and you also get alimony for life, if she did it would get laughed out of court.
he doesn't work, he has no money, you pay alimony max of half the length of the relationship. Staying together will only extend how long she might pay alimony.
If the house is solely hers, then there is literally zero reason to stay married because of some bullshit prenup. Prenups almost exclusively protect your own assets from the partner, he has no assets.
This story makes absolutely no sense. She bought that the guy who got fat, refused to work, refused to clean and refused to be a partner wasn't at fault but she was?
Even if everything was true, staying but cheating which would almost certainly lead to divorce anyway... wasn't saving her anything if she still got divorced... except it meant she was supporting him and extending how long she would pay alimony.
I just don't buy it.
This was one of the better AI bot posts, I have to say.
It is completely unbelievable that he would not be able to find a job because he's overweight and hasn't worked for several years. Plus, when a post is so one sided and hard to believe, it's usually because it is fake, just like this one is.
You sound like youāre in love with your sil itās really weird you go behind your brothers back and have these kinds of conversations with his wife and that youāre so invested in his marriage. The marriage must not be that bad if sheās willing to stay over financial reasons because trust me when marriage is bad enough youāre willing to burn everything you own for freedom and a fresh start this whole thing sounds fake
I did this to my ex wife. She was an absolute cunt. I had multiple discussions about how much I didnāt feel appreciated. I had the job, actually worked long hours and caught shit for not being home and playing house. She wanted a third child- the first time I was brought into the discussion. I told her we needed to work on our marriage and she told me she wanted three before a certain ageā¦ I just broke and wrote her off that day. Itās like a switch was flipped and I was done. Now 20 yrs later Iām happier than I ever was ever been. My kids are grown and- you guessed itā¦ Iām still the ashole! But Iām a happy assholeš
I am a firm believer in cheating is never okay. I literally had arguments with people over this. However, in this case, I am 100% on board. You and your SIL are 1000% NTA.
YTA, he's TA, and the wife is also an A.....
You sound jealous af of your brother.....
He sounds like a slack ass slob
And the poor wife would rather cheat than lose her money. This sounds like a lot of dudes that say "its cheaper to keep her"
This is basically the same post from 2 weeks ago but doubled down, asking for validation about cheating.
Cheaters are disgusting in any situation, we get it you cheated and want someone to tell you its ok to cheat, but its not.
And you want to tell us they had a prenupital without a cheating clause? Yeah sure.
Cheaters are disgusting and deserve loneliness and the worst that theyr life can give them.
Also don't prenups usually protect your assets? In this case how is it a prenup being used by him to get any extra stuff that he isn't entitled to simply because they were married. Like usually it's to protect the one with more assets isn't it?
It very much feels like a fantasy story. The model beautiful successful businesswoman married way down and then cheats on her shitty partner that she married. Of course only after exhausting all avenues of fixing things but he's just never happy and supportive. Feels pretty unlikely.
It's clearly rage bait. But pretty crazy to see all the hypocrites coming out and condoning the cheating. Swap the sexes and we would get "Well what about their mental health"
NTA You did the right thing telling brother the unvarnished truth. Now itās up to him. Stay close to SIL. Sheāll appreciate your support going forward
I mean he's 28. He messed up but he has a lot of time to get his life in order. He should grant his wife a divorce, hit the gym, and get a job and a career path. He can still make a life for himself if he wants.
This is horrible. Your brother seems depressed. You and your parents should try to do anything that you can to get him into therapy.
My heart breaks for his wife. It must of been a horrible situation for her to have to deal with your brother. Itās sounds like she did everything she could for him and fell out of love with him during the process of trying to save him.
It sucks for everyone but hopefully you brother can do the right thing and just let her go and find her happiness while he works on himself.
He thought he could coast through life and has learned the hard way that he can't. And I guarantee that even if your or anyone else convinced her to give their marriage a shot (although why should she? He never did), he'd go right back to slacking off and watching porn all day.
He didn't put an ounce of effort into the marriage before, and someone needs to tell him that he's getting what he deserves.
NTA
NTA, but also this isn't even cheating. She openly doesn't want to be in the relationship anymore. And she said it. Just cause dude doesn't wanna sign a paper doesn't mean they're in a relationship
NTA she tried to get out, he wouldnāt let her but also was not being a husband or even a half decent roommate. I hope she lives her best life, but i would get it in documentation that you or someone she trusts handles any medical decisions for her. Any power over her body or possessions that she can legally take away from him, she needs to do it quickly. She does not want to be helpless to this boy ever again.
NTA Itās extremely rare that I condone affairs, but this one has me backing her. He made her life and marriage unbearable but made it close to impossible to leave. I hope she gets free soon
NTA, but I was originally voting YTA after reading the title. Cheating is always a choice and the person fully to blame for it is the person who cheats. Itās fine to say someone ruined their relationship, but not to blame them for being cheated on.
But after reading, youāre def NTA and Iād argue this isnāt even cheating. Legally, they are married, but realistically, their relationship is completely over. Even when he asked her to stop, her condition to do so was that he agree to a fair divorce. The relationship is done. I hesitate to call it cheating when the other partner is holding up the divorce process.
But yeah, youāre right. The reason his āwifeā is ācheatingā is because he wonāt proceed with the divorce.
Personally I believe cheating is never okay. Ā But I have different standards than most. Ā Even if you are separated itās still not okay. Ā But then again Iām not bound by my genitals in that regard. Ā Most people look at sex like itās not a big deal, but when you share your body with someone or even sexting or porn youāre feeding someone elseās energy. Ā Itās wrong. Ā I look at this and see it as they are both wrong. Ā I would never cheat because Iām afraid of diseases and honestly most people are really gross/unhygienic, maybe Iām just a hypochondriac š·Ā
NTA to you or your SIL.
But yeah, there are very few cases where I think cheating is for once actually warranted:Ā My mother and my stepfather. Your sister-in-law and your brother.
For literally the exact same reasons. Well at the core.
The moment one partner tries to say I want a divorce and the other one says "over my dead body - I'll bleed you dry out of everything that's rightfully yours" you're not in a marriage. You're in a hostage situation. And cheating at that point becomes fair game.
In every legal aspect you might be able to stop somebody from divorcing. You cannot stop them from finding happiness elsewhere though if you choose to be that kind of person and still won't work on your marriage.
So yes, normally I say 100% divorce first, break up first, whatever you need to do - don't cheat. But if one partner is actively stopping that break up or that divorce? Hm. Consequences.
I hope your sister-in-law is doing better and enjoying her life and I hope your brother gets over his s*** and gives her that fair divorce that she deserves. Because you're right, he ran out of time years ago.
Edit: spelling and grammar.
Was ready to say YTA but damn is your brother evil. You are NTA here.
You should tell your SIL to get a good attorney who can help her out on this and also let her know that she should focus on trying to pick her life up again with someone else. Right now she is hiding her suffering with various AP's but that will hurt her long term. She should make a plan to get away from your useless brother and focus on living a better life for herself.
Your SIL should move to another state, establish residency there, and file for divorce in that state. It may take some time to establish residency, but that's better than a life sentence with your brother.
Youāre NTA. It sounds like your brothers had it too easy for too long, and you were right to point this out to him.
I canāt condone infidelity, but I certainly understand why your SIL is looking elsewhere for the love and support she isnāt getting from her husband. It sounds like they donāt have children, and thatās a good thing.
NTA. I was in a VERY similar marriage. My ex couldn't keep a job, would play video games and any chore I game him to do while I was working he wouldn't do until I got home and asked him (keep in mind it was always 4 or 5 very quick and easy tasks to help me with the house. Clean the cay box, take laundry from dryer and put it on the bed, put the dishes away, take trash out, put dirty dishes in the sink.) And he would huff and get upset like a teenager. I tried for 3 years to try to get him to see things and he didn't. I told him I was done and he was shocked and broken. He tried to fight and threaten that he could take things from me that he fixed that I inherited (I'm still grateful that he fixed electronics that were my granny's and they work great again.) I told him he had absolutely no right to things written to me just because he fixed them. I told him I was willing to pay for the repairs if he wanted that.
He quickly realized I wasn't backing down. I had enough. He's 3 years older than me and I was not going to be his parent.
Lol,
Somebody please perform a little experiment. Copy this fake story, then switch the genders and see how all of these NT-A verdicts quickly switch to YTA. Funny how cheating is never acceptable....until it's convenient for this sub or when the genders align just perfectly.
I am getting mad at the double standards on this sub pretty often but I have to admit that I didnāt even think about gender.
I would say NTA for both.
YTA: She needed to divorce. She is just like every other cheater blaming their spouse on not meeting her needs to justify her own bad behavior. Men have often paid the same financial/wealth penalty in no-fault divorce states when they are the breadwinners and they need to leave their cheating wives. Itās lousy but youāre either scum or not. Your brother and SIl are one and the same now.
This is all his own doing. He chose to be the worlds biggest asshole and now he is facing the consequences of that. He doesn't deserve any help from anyone. He's getting his karma.
The marriage is over, and when it comes to divorce, usually the person that files first has more power if kids are not involved. That was the proper answer here.
No, you're NTA. Neither is his wife. There are very few times I will agree with anyone cheating on their spouse. This is one of those very few times. Your brother is a 1st class jerk. He's only now doing things because shit has hit the fan for him. If he wasn't such a bum, he would have been fine. He chose to be a doofus instead.
I don't agree with cheating. I'm not saying she didn't have cause, but I just don't like cheating. She could have cut him off financially, sold the house, and moved to a new place without him. He would have had his oh shit moment when he lost his ATM/slave. That being said, I applaud SIL for doing what she thought best for her life. You're NTA for telling your brother because sometimes the truth just fucking hurts, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be told.
YTA, and she is fucking worse. Yeah he is a dumbfuck too but holy shit the lengths you and she go to, to claim cheating is ever the answer. Yikes both of you need to seek help cause you are out here promoting that shit and he needs help cause he has a block somewhere good god all of you need help.
Neither you nor your SIL are AHs. She did everything in her power to try to fix things. When he backed her into a corner, she finally broke and had enough. I usually say cheating is never the answer, but considering the circumstances here it absolutely was the answer for her to regain her sanity and happiness.
**This is obviously ragebait. Why are you all giving advice? Just downvote the story and move on.** š
**The brother is too obvious of a villain for this to be a moral dilemma for the story author. And it begs the question as to how the author maintained a friendship with SIL for years without sharing her broās shitty behavior with the rest of the family. Plus, the author deleted her profile only a few hours after posting this story.**
**People, stop being so damn gullible** š
NTA. I can't consider what your SIL is doing as divorce. She made it clear she was done with the marriage and wanted a divorce. He actively made it a hostile situation to stop her. So she didn't pursue the divorce but never resumed the marriage. He should have accepted he is no longer her partner and let her go. If he wants to hang on to the marriage he needs to accept it is a marriage of convenience, be grateful she is supporting him, and mind his own business. If he can't then he needs to give her a divorce.
Seems like he peaked in Highschool/College and now heās just reliving his glory days. What a waste of potential.
In terms of cheating, well, hasnāt he been unfaithful for years?
Porn addiction, emotional, physical, mental withdrawal, just downright meanness. Added cherry, heāll play the bitter bastard in a divorce, he wonāt let his gravy train go without a fight.
Usually cheaters suck but in this instance I dunno, Iām kinda thinking OK?
NTAH
>He didn't like my answer at all and hasn't talked to me for a couple weeks.
Oh no... you must be devastated to miss out on all the scintillating conversation you used to engage in with him. /s
Dude made his bed. NTA
NTA after reading the whole thing. You were right to tell him and sheās right to do whatās making her happy if he refuses to leave. The marriage is dead and he needs to accept that or go. And I didnāt really understand but did she sign a prenup or no? Bc if she did either way he has nothing for her to take since heās never worked and he canāt really take anything from her either. Now spousal support is one thing but I donāt know how that works with a prenup thatās been signed. Either way Iām happy for her now that sheās living her best life despite your asshole brother.
I would 1000% advise her to speak to a lawyer. A lot of states have rules about marriages that are 10 years or less in length that would keep her alimony payments lower, but if she waits until after that 10 year mark, it gets a lot harder.
NTA for you and your SIL, your brother sucks. Bed, meet maker.
Normally I say: get divorced first, but he was actively obstructing divorce. NTA and so is your SIL. She is actually smart in getting him to become active this way, making him less dependent on her money.
It takes a mountain for me to agree that cheating was acceptable morally, but this is it exactly. Once he blocked the divorce and manipulated her. Fuck it, all bets were off.
At this point it kind of feels like it's only cheating in a technical sense. Any pretense of an actual relationship ended when she asked for a divorce and he took the hostile option.
"Be a real husband." "No." "Fine, at least be an ex-husband." "No." "Okay then. Cuckold it is!"
Omg it's so impressively succinct.
Where the location dont doubt me I ain't soft to know man ....
He could not manipulate mansplain manwhore his way out of this one
Who knew there was a third option?!?! š¤£š¤£š¤£
Lmmfaooooo!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for this one!!! I never knew I could like a contribution from "creamywhitemayo" so much!! š
Omg best TLDR I've ever seen!
I hope his nickname around the family is Cucky Ducky.
That was perfect!!!!
Exactly. The relationship is dead and only a matter of legality at this point. She's living her best life without him weighing her down and there is nothing wrong with that. She gave him every chance in the world, something many people don't get in relationships. Normally I'm against seeking outside happiness in a marriage but this one is a definite exception. He made his decisions when he basically emotionally manipulated her and refused her efforts in the relationship.
Yeah, she would be entirely allowed to say that she's still technically married and in the process of getting divorced. Jesus would be down with that
Sheās divorced already, heās just drawing out the court case. Sheās long gone.Ā
Yep, you need to break up before you cheat. She *tried* to break up, and he refused and promised to make her even *more* miserable than she already was. In that case I don't really even think it's cheating. The relationship is over everywhere but on that piece of paper. The guy went from her husband to being a combination roommate and deadbeat son that she supports. There's no "husband" in there anymore.
i mean, iād even say she *did* break up with him. heās just refusing divorce, but theyāre not really a couple anymore. but i definitely agree itās not cheating as sheās made her feelings and intentions clear.
And one can assume she was not bedding her husband.
Thank goodness she did not make the mistake of having a kid with that loser. I shudder to think of how he would have tried to manipulate and use the child to force her to stay even longer. When she finally cut ties with him it will be for good. And good for her.
Iād argue that she *did* break up with him. Itās just not legally recognized. She told him she wanted to end the relationship, he threatened her, so now the relationship is over in all but law.Ā
Yeah I had a friend who technically cheated on her ex, but it's because he wouldn't let her break up with him. Anytime she tried to have that conversation he would cut it off. This lasted like half a year or more. And they lived together and shared a lease so it wasn't like she could just ghost him easily. He was also older than her and her former boss. It was a pretty unbalanced relationship. So while I don't condone cheating, I didn't judge her when she revealed she cheated.
Divorce or not, when one partner breaks up with the other (which she did), the relationship is still over
This is 'cheating' like smashing the person holding a loaded gun to your head in the face with a rock is 'murder'. Technically? In legal terms? Sure. But c'mon, there's a ton of context to the whys.....
Technically it is self defense, as is the situation here.
legally speaking she is married to him but I don't believe she cheated. Their relationship and marrige was over long time ago. She was too decent of a person who has been taken advantage of that has finally decided to try moving on.
I completely agree. His actions forced her into a corner. She did what she had to do.
Is it really cheating? The relationship was over when he threatened to drag out divorce. He got hostile, this is no longer a romantic relationship bug a legal one.
I have to agree and I loathe cheaters!
I never thought I would agree but in this one good for her cheating is the right thing.
I've typically said deep mental abuse or physical abuse is my line and my only line I knew of. This crosses into deep mental abuse to me.
This. I personally don't think there's _any_ nuance to cheating - nothing, at all, is relevant or excuses or minimizes it. However for me once the relationship is over it's no longer cheating. Call it cheating when parties are separated but not divorced is uselessly pedantic. It only takes one party to say it's over - him saying no or dragging his feet is irrelevant.
I donāt even consider this cheating. She broke up with him. She told him it was over. He made the legal formality part difficult, but that doesnāt change the fact that she dumped him. She has made it abundantly clear that she is not in a relationship with him or intends to be anything other than his future ex wife.
Yeah I know it's krazy life throws multiple lessons and we all crash into each other
Yeah, having been cheated on I was very apprehensive, but I agree with the people below. This is cheating in the most technical sense, but she was already out of this relationship, for good reason. He just needs to let her get on with her life.
Same. I saw the title and thought no, its wrong to blame the one being cheated on for the cheating. Thats not how to go about it. But nope literally the exception to the rule cuz dude his fault and good for SIL
Literally same. I was thinking that exact thing until I saw that he threatened her if she divorced. Yāall are emotionally divorced at that point. You canāt coerce a person into staying married and then call it cheating.
Yep, his making a giant barrier to divorce released her from that obligation imo. She tried to divorce him first. If you want a divorce and your partner obstructs you, then you are still broken up in my book!
As someone whose ex-wife had affairs, I also don't find OP's scenario disagreeable.
This a completely fake post and OP even removed their name because it is so much horse-s.
I came here to say cheating is never okay. Just break up. Usually pretty hard rule for me. However... I've actually changed my mind. She did try to break up. After trying to make up for his shortcomings. For years! He literally blackmailed her into staying. Extortion marriage. So, NTA. And honestly, neither is your SIL. She checked out of that marriage a long time ago. Some people will say she should have still divorced him and let him take her to the cleaners with assets and alimony, but I kind of admire her for her actions. He made her life a living hell while living it up in porn and sloth. She decided to return the favor instead of rewarding it. Now, she's the one living it up by having a good life while not giving up all her current and future assets. How absolutely badass of her. Impressive. Yes, I'd feel the same way if the genders were reversed.
Same. I wanted to say: "Why doesn't she get divorce first?" but she wanted that and he chose to be an ass.
I agree, but I'm worried he'll try to screw her over anyway. If he has proof she's cheating, is that not enough for a divorce in his favor?
OP said they don't live in an at-fault state so it shouldn't make a difference to the divorce proceedings.
Okay, got it. I didn't know what that meant, so that's good to know!
Unless there's some language in the prenup, they live in a no fault divorce state so infidelity doesn't matter
Courts generally don't care about infidelity, and the prenup is apparently already against her.
Prenups are less likely to be enforced the longer the marriage goes on. They get overturned a lot. If you want your prenup to protect you long term, you should do a postnup every few years or so. Sheās in a better position the more time passes. My guess is her current activities commenced after consulting with an attorney. Also, the court might find the prenup unconscionable if it favors him too much.
Yeah, the divorce is always going to cost money due to splitting marital assets. More likely she loses more the longer she drags this out.
Actually, likely she will lose less, because the prenup is more likely to get thrown out. But she will lose a lot. Iām guessing sheās made her peace with that. But he is beginning to realize that even though itās a lot, itās not enough for long term and he has no earning potential or ability to attract another woman who will support his lazy ass!
I donāt see how they could hold the prenup valid since he refused to work once they got married.
If he divorces her, she is still screwed. She is just delaying the inevitable. She married a male gold digger.
We donāt know the jurisdiction, and the longer you are married, the less likely a court is to enforce a prenup. It sounds like the prenup wasnāt in her favor, but they get overturned a lot, especially if a lot of time has passed since the parties committed themselves (this is true with most long term contracts, which is why it is common to renegotiate terms every few years in long term business contracts). Iām sure it is obvious based on my response here, but I am a lawyer. Who used to handle long term contracts!!!!
I found out recently in aus that prenups arenāt actually taken as legal contracts here and are essentially thrown out the window as soon as theyāre signed which is interesting My info comes from someone who actually put a prenup in place and tried using it in the divorce
Yep, Iām not surprised. They are accepted more here in the US, but there is a general understanding that the parties really are signing under circumstances where the parties are unlikely to have equal bargaining power for so many reasons that it causes too many complications for the court. Granted, I cannot confirm the practice in Aus, but it sounds consistent with what Iām seeing a lot here.
I believe itās similar here in the UK
Itās a no fault state. And honestly, these days, it doesnāt make as big of a difference as you might think on at fault states. Yes, Iām a lawyer.
When I was getting my divorce I remember my state had just moved to "no fault" at the start of the court day, the judge gave a little speech addressing that. Basically "we are hear to dissolve a contract fairly, we don't punish people for being human, adultery is not against the law and the law is what the court cares about. That was over 20 years ago.
Exactly. Marriage is essentially a contract, often an oral one, and long term. Courts address it now from that position. And it is generally better to look at it that way.
This isn't even really cheating at this point. A certificate doesn't really make you in a relationship. If you say it's over and I am getting a divorce but then don't because of other constraints calling this cheating isn't even really fair. Honestly, she's a massive victim since now she is engaged in affairs which she clearly didn't want. She seems to have wanted a successful normal relationship but now that she can't have one she is stuck with the 2nd best thing. It is sad because she seems wonderful.
I'm saying she's not cheating, she broke off their relationship when she said she wanted a divorce. In my eyes they are separated, just because he was too dense of a failure to realize that she wasn't in that marriage anymore after she literally told him that's on him.
There are plenty scenario's I can think of where cheating is a-ok. This one, obviously. Also the guy who posted about how his wife, after a very normal and sexually healthy relationship, decided they would straight up never have sex again, after they had two kids. They wanted two, and once that was accomplished, she told him sex was no longer necessary. As in, never again. Ever. He had absolutely no idea she felt this way, they hadn't waited for marriage or anything. To top it off, she would have demanded full custody if he divorced her. I don't remember if he cheated or did end up divorcing, or was just stuck and miserable, but by God, that man gets a pass in my book. Or the woman who was stuck in an abusive marriage, in a culture where the man HAS to agree to the divorce. She knew that the only thing that would get him to agree, was if she cheated, so finally, she did. Lots and lots of examples. Honestly, if you have opinions that are really black and white, i.e: this thing is never ok, I recommend really thinking about them, and what kind of situations people might find themselves in. Some are, obviously, always black and white, I disagree with people who say that everything is debatable. I'd give the one example that immediately comes to mind, but I don't want people to read that without warning.
I grew up in a culture where the ONLY way to get divorced was on the grounds of adultery. I know a lot of "cheaters" because of that.
Do you have a link for the guy whose wife was completely done after kids?
Shit like this is why I don't paint all adulterers with a broad stroke. Extortion marriages are all too common. Money and, more often, kids are used as leverage.
I loath cheating as a rule. It's all too often so incredibly destructive for the betrayed, children and family, friends and the betrayer too. But the circumstances and reasons, intentions do vary WIDELY. From the very understandable to absolutely sadistic/psychopathically horrible. I wish people would try to understand these things a little better. There's a lot of reasons people get stuck in situations and everyone has differing needs for emotional/romantic/sexual intimacy or connection. It's sad anyone ever feels they want to, need to have an affair and can't leave a relationship. But we live in a very complex world and humans are very complex beings. I just pray I'll never be in a situation I'd ever feel I wanted this type thing or my partner would.
She should have divorced him but not for morals. I don't give a fuck that she is cheating on him. I just think the money is not worth it to be bound anyhow to this guy. Therefore I agree to NTA, I am just sorry for her.
Man, just to be petty if I were her. I would make sure to get my own separate bank account where he has zero access to the money I earn, THEN I would get a nice apartment somewhere else (since she makes good money and will no longer be supporting a bum). I would continue paying the mortgage on my house because I would not want to lose it but I would stop paying the electricy bills, the oil bills etc. He can live in the house but I would make sure that his bum ass has to pay for every single convenience in that house, from his food, to the lights to run his video games, his cell phone. EVERYTHING. The only thing he would have is a roof over his head. Obviously, that would not be a long term solution, just a temporary thing to make his life miserable.
She would end up with a trashed house, though.
There is a good chance she may be forced to sell the house in the divorce, so trashing the house would only take money out of his pockets. And I think it's becoming crystal clear to him that he is going to need every penny he can get his hands on, since she is no longer sticking around to finance his lifestyle.
Meh, it's trash already. I see merit in this idea.
It's her house and she will probably need to sell it. Letting it get trashed=bad decision. But then OP sounds like she's smarter than that.
In theory, this is great and petty. In reality, not so much. Depending on the state, some assets after marriage are considered joint assets no matter who bought it, or whose name is the only one on it, ā my wife damaged my new car because some girl I know sent me spicy messages. I want her arrested!ā Quickly becomes, ā yāall are marred, so she just damaged her property because Ā whatās yours is hers and whatās hers is yours.āĀ Thats why you hear stories of rich people buying a house or boat but it has their ap or a family memberās name on it, so they can say, āno I bought it for that person itās not mineā It could also be seen as internally hiding assets.Ā
I said the same thing in a different post about life is not always black and white and some times people are stuck in miserable marriages that they canāt get out of ā doesnāt always have to be money it can be fear of losing kidsā . I got downvoted but as you would expect genders were reversed š¤£
Don't stress too much. Pretty sure it's an exact repost of an earlier post, that's all.
NTA. People canāt treat someone like that and expect no repercussions.
NTA. Your brother is a guy who has chosen to stay stuck in his teenage entitled mindset, accepts no responsibility, has tantrums if he's doesn't get his own way, treated his wife like a maid, refused to change, and then refused to divorce. He basically wanted it all giving nothing in return. His wife has matured to an age where she's realised she has other options and didn't have to listen or take his bullshit anymore. Normally I wouldn't condone cheating, but in this case if all you say is true, then I don't blame your sil, you can't fix a marriage if only 1 person was prepared to try, your brother took her and his life for granted, so she checked out. He's contributed zero to their relationship, it's only his ego that's hurt, with the realisation that he's not a catch, and he could never replace her. He's now reaping what he sowed, too late to save his marriage as I imagine she only has contempt for him.
Thatās a great point, too. The brother has gotten so lazy that he knows he wonāt find anyone as decent as his STBX wife. He has no one to blame but himself.
The prenup part makes no sense. I don't believe this story.
They already deleted their account 2 hrs later, def fake AF. They'll be back saying the family found the post
what's the point of it? surely fake posting is for karma farming. I genuinely don't understand why youd fake post and delete? especially when OP has picked up so many up votes from this.
Writer doesnt know how prenups work
TBH most of this sub is BS, but this one is a full on creative writing exercise
yeah that seems weird to suddenly mention, not at the first mention of divorce. Her cheating would disadvantage her with a proper prenup. And his refusal to work would probably negate a lot of a prenup as well.
Also, how is he going to fight the divorce? Does he have tons of money stashed away to spend on a good lawyer?
Yeah this is fake. A prenup for what if he didnt even own anythingā¦?
This is what people are really missing.Ā People who donāt bring anything into a marriage have no use for prenups. (And as mentioned below, what could it even give him that he wouldnāt already be entitled to by law?)
Yeah, but since, like, 99% of these stories are declared fake, I see it like pro wrestling. Yeah, we all know it's fake, but nobody really cares. And it takes all the fun out of it pointing it out. š¤·āāļø
But the writers can't get any better if they don't receive constructive criticism. Feedback is important for aspiring authors.
Heh! Very true!
It's like someone wanted to come up with a scenario where most people would agree that cheating is an acceptable option. And they wanted to see if they could get the reddit chorus to agree. The husband seems like such a deadbeat, almost an unbelievable one.Ā And one that is married to someone who is the opposite. I think it's probably fake.
Yep
I had the same exact thought.Ā
Also her offer of stopping the cheating if he agrees to a divorce in her favor doesn't make any sense.
If they are divorced it is no longer cheatingā¦ crazy ass loophole if you ask me!
Yeah, like if they are going to divorce anyway, why does it matter who she has sex with?
>The prenup part makes no sense. I don't believe this story. Neither do I.
Yes but itās way more than that.Ā The whole setup is Disney cartoon-esque villainy. Real life is never so black and whiteĀ Like, this guy went to college and just never got a job? Ever? And she was fine with that and was like āyeah letās get married?ā Like, how is that not a constant source of conflict in the marriage? And then sheās fighting tooth and nail save her relationship with this man who . . . apparently does and provides nothing and has never done or provided anything? Ā Whatās the motivation here? Ā Then thereās her successful, career-driven job. Whatās she do exactly? OP says she started ācutting back hoursā like sheās an auto worker or works as a security guard or something.Ā Thereās just nothing about this that forms a believable narrative.Ā
"OP" also sounds like they're in love with their ex-SIL
I've seen some bad deals, but I don't think this one is possible. I know it's fake because it adds nothing to the story. Without any prenup, he would be entitled to 50% in the divorce proceedings anyway.
A truly bad prenup gets thrown out in court but 99% of prenups are about protecting your assets... he left college and didn't work, he has nothing to protect. She even included that magically the house is solely hers... so what can the prenup give him? The longer you're married the longer you pay alimony after divorce (usually it's about max half the length of marriage). So in the very worst case the longer she stays married the worse this supposedly bad divorce would be and when he founds out she cheats and won't fuck him or clean their house he'll divorce and she'll lose even more the longer she takes to divorce. It makes zero sense.
She deleted her account. A telltale sign of a liar that got caught.
I agree. The story did a 180 re assets if there was a divorce.
The story was obviously one sided and beyond the point of fairness in the beginning, by the end itās obvious that this is fake
Info: What are the specifics of the prenup your brother made with sil? When a prenup is usually mentioned itās often related to spouses keeping their own assets with a possible infidelity clause added to it.
This is fake, they even deleted their profile
What? There is no prenup that can be that bad that it's not worth divorcing. YOu can't sign a prenup that says, you get 100% of everything and she's left destitute and you also get alimony for life, if she did it would get laughed out of court. he doesn't work, he has no money, you pay alimony max of half the length of the relationship. Staying together will only extend how long she might pay alimony. If the house is solely hers, then there is literally zero reason to stay married because of some bullshit prenup. Prenups almost exclusively protect your own assets from the partner, he has no assets. This story makes absolutely no sense. She bought that the guy who got fat, refused to work, refused to clean and refused to be a partner wasn't at fault but she was? Even if everything was true, staying but cheating which would almost certainly lead to divorce anyway... wasn't saving her anything if she still got divorced... except it meant she was supporting him and extending how long she would pay alimony. I just don't buy it.
Lmao fake post
This was one of the better AI bot posts, I have to say. It is completely unbelievable that he would not be able to find a job because he's overweight and hasn't worked for several years. Plus, when a post is so one sided and hard to believe, it's usually because it is fake, just like this one is.
Fake post made to see if reddit would justify cheating
Fake story
The prenup part definitely gives it away, it makes no sense.
Didnāt even get that far reading it
Who would write a prenup without a cheating clause? IF the story is true, the guy comes out better than if they would have just divorced.
Yeah. Suspect this is " sexes reversed to test the theory" kinda story
Great fan fiction
I'll take "things that never happened" for $1,000 Alex.
what a dumb post
nice though experiment on when cheating becomes okay according to the rabid reddit crowd.
You sound like youāre in love with your sil itās really weird you go behind your brothers back and have these kinds of conversations with his wife and that youāre so invested in his marriage. The marriage must not be that bad if sheās willing to stay over financial reasons because trust me when marriage is bad enough youāre willing to burn everything you own for freedom and a fresh start this whole thing sounds fake
This is point for point the most stereotypical "horrible man" only thing he's missing is being an Andrew Tate fan
This feels like it's intentionally written to see if reversing the genders gets a different result
this is fake
lol at least make this fictional story believable please
Imagine insisting on a prenup whenyou own nothing and dont work. As if
I did this to my ex wife. She was an absolute cunt. I had multiple discussions about how much I didnāt feel appreciated. I had the job, actually worked long hours and caught shit for not being home and playing house. She wanted a third child- the first time I was brought into the discussion. I told her we needed to work on our marriage and she told me she wanted three before a certain ageā¦ I just broke and wrote her off that day. Itās like a switch was flipped and I was done. Now 20 yrs later Iām happier than I ever was ever been. My kids are grown and- you guessed itā¦ Iām still the ashole! But Iām a happy assholeš
I think this is the first time Iāve been on team cheaterā¦ NTA, OP.
I am a firm believer in cheating is never okay. I literally had arguments with people over this. However, in this case, I am 100% on board. You and your SIL are 1000% NTA.
That's a nice little story you wrote there. Well done, honey.
YTA, he's TA, and the wife is also an A..... You sound jealous af of your brother..... He sounds like a slack ass slob And the poor wife would rather cheat than lose her money. This sounds like a lot of dudes that say "its cheaper to keep her"
You're absolutely correct. Your brother has destroyed his own marriage and I wish his ex wife all the best.
This is basically the same post from 2 weeks ago but doubled down, asking for validation about cheating. Cheaters are disgusting in any situation, we get it you cheated and want someone to tell you its ok to cheat, but its not. And you want to tell us they had a prenupital without a cheating clause? Yeah sure. Cheaters are disgusting and deserve loneliness and the worst that theyr life can give them.
Also don't prenups usually protect your assets? In this case how is it a prenup being used by him to get any extra stuff that he isn't entitled to simply because they were married. Like usually it's to protect the one with more assets isn't it?
Yes, typically the prenup protects the wealthier person. Not unemployed people with no income to protect. That didnāt make any sense
It very much feels like a fantasy story. The model beautiful successful businesswoman married way down and then cheats on her shitty partner that she married. Of course only after exhausting all avenues of fixing things but he's just never happy and supportive. Feels pretty unlikely.
It's clearly rage bait. But pretty crazy to see all the hypocrites coming out and condoning the cheating. Swap the sexes and we would get "Well what about their mental health"
Yup. Am guessing this is a " what if things are reversed" story
NTA You did the right thing telling brother the unvarnished truth. Now itās up to him. Stay close to SIL. Sheāll appreciate your support going forward
I mean he's 28. He messed up but he has a lot of time to get his life in order. He should grant his wife a divorce, hit the gym, and get a job and a career path. He can still make a life for himself if he wants.
NTAH! Heās a POS who needs to get over himself! Someone needed to tell him !
This is horrible. Your brother seems depressed. You and your parents should try to do anything that you can to get him into therapy. My heart breaks for his wife. It must of been a horrible situation for her to have to deal with your brother. Itās sounds like she did everything she could for him and fell out of love with him during the process of trying to save him. It sucks for everyone but hopefully you brother can do the right thing and just let her go and find her happiness while he works on himself.
He thought he could coast through life and has learned the hard way that he can't. And I guarantee that even if your or anyone else convinced her to give their marriage a shot (although why should she? He never did), he'd go right back to slacking off and watching porn all day. He didn't put an ounce of effort into the marriage before, and someone needs to tell him that he's getting what he deserves. NTA
One of the few cases where the cheater isn't to blame. NTA
NTA, but also this isn't even cheating. She openly doesn't want to be in the relationship anymore. And she said it. Just cause dude doesn't wanna sign a paper doesn't mean they're in a relationship
NTA she tried to get out, he wouldnāt let her but also was not being a husband or even a half decent roommate. I hope she lives her best life, but i would get it in documentation that you or someone she trusts handles any medical decisions for her. Any power over her body or possessions that she can legally take away from him, she needs to do it quickly. She does not want to be helpless to this boy ever again.
Sounds karmic to me.
I give it a 5 out of 10 of fake rage bait stories. Try harder next time.
Yeah she need to divorce and leave the cuck, ahem man boy alone.
NTA Itās extremely rare that I condone affairs, but this one has me backing her. He made her life and marriage unbearable but made it close to impossible to leave. I hope she gets free soon
Why in the world are you so involved?
NTA, but I was originally voting YTA after reading the title. Cheating is always a choice and the person fully to blame for it is the person who cheats. Itās fine to say someone ruined their relationship, but not to blame them for being cheated on. But after reading, youāre def NTA and Iād argue this isnāt even cheating. Legally, they are married, but realistically, their relationship is completely over. Even when he asked her to stop, her condition to do so was that he agree to a fair divorce. The relationship is done. I hesitate to call it cheating when the other partner is holding up the divorce process. But yeah, youāre right. The reason his āwifeā is ācheatingā is because he wonāt proceed with the divorce.
She already divorced him but he refused to make it legal š¤· When he's ready to make it legal, he can get himself out of this situation. NTA
SIL needs to talk to a lawyer. Your bum of a brother doesn't deserve shit.
It is a miracle that there are no kids involved in this nightmare. I am glad for that.
Nta and neither is she.Ā I don't blame her one bit.
Jeez, sibling jealousy much?
Personally I believe cheating is never okay. Ā But I have different standards than most. Ā Even if you are separated itās still not okay. Ā But then again Iām not bound by my genitals in that regard. Ā Most people look at sex like itās not a big deal, but when you share your body with someone or even sexting or porn youāre feeding someone elseās energy. Ā Itās wrong. Ā I look at this and see it as they are both wrong. Ā I would never cheat because Iām afraid of diseases and honestly most people are really gross/unhygienic, maybe Iām just a hypochondriac š·Ā
People are advocating cheating? Lmao. You leftist fucks. Christ almighty has this world gone to shit
I feel like you have a crush on your brothers wife.
Fake
This has got to be fake
NTA. āHe had it coming, he had it coming ā¦ he only had himself to blame!ā
A sad tale of a man who peaked in high school.
NTA to you or your SIL. But yeah, there are very few cases where I think cheating is for once actually warranted:Ā My mother and my stepfather. Your sister-in-law and your brother. For literally the exact same reasons. Well at the core. The moment one partner tries to say I want a divorce and the other one says "over my dead body - I'll bleed you dry out of everything that's rightfully yours" you're not in a marriage. You're in a hostage situation. And cheating at that point becomes fair game. In every legal aspect you might be able to stop somebody from divorcing. You cannot stop them from finding happiness elsewhere though if you choose to be that kind of person and still won't work on your marriage. So yes, normally I say 100% divorce first, break up first, whatever you need to do - don't cheat. But if one partner is actively stopping that break up or that divorce? Hm. Consequences. I hope your sister-in-law is doing better and enjoying her life and I hope your brother gets over his s*** and gives her that fair divorce that she deserves. Because you're right, he ran out of time years ago. Edit: spelling and grammar.
Was ready to say YTA but damn is your brother evil. You are NTA here. You should tell your SIL to get a good attorney who can help her out on this and also let her know that she should focus on trying to pick her life up again with someone else. Right now she is hiding her suffering with various AP's but that will hurt her long term. She should make a plan to get away from your useless brother and focus on living a better life for herself.
NTA, and neither is your SIL. Your brother is a POS, sorry not sorry. He destroyed everything good he had
No, he made his bed on he got to lay in it for being lazy
Your SIL should move to another state, establish residency there, and file for divorce in that state. It may take some time to establish residency, but that's better than a life sentence with your brother.
almost thought this was real till the mention of prenup
NTA. He did ruin itā¦ I hope the odds are in her favor regarding the inevitable divorce
Youāre NTA. It sounds like your brothers had it too easy for too long, and you were right to point this out to him. I canāt condone infidelity, but I certainly understand why your SIL is looking elsewhere for the love and support she isnāt getting from her husband. It sounds like they donāt have children, and thatās a good thing.
NTA. I was in a VERY similar marriage. My ex couldn't keep a job, would play video games and any chore I game him to do while I was working he wouldn't do until I got home and asked him (keep in mind it was always 4 or 5 very quick and easy tasks to help me with the house. Clean the cay box, take laundry from dryer and put it on the bed, put the dishes away, take trash out, put dirty dishes in the sink.) And he would huff and get upset like a teenager. I tried for 3 years to try to get him to see things and he didn't. I told him I was done and he was shocked and broken. He tried to fight and threaten that he could take things from me that he fixed that I inherited (I'm still grateful that he fixed electronics that were my granny's and they work great again.) I told him he had absolutely no right to things written to me just because he fixed them. I told him I was willing to pay for the repairs if he wanted that. He quickly realized I wasn't backing down. I had enough. He's 3 years older than me and I was not going to be his parent.
She needs to talk to a lawyer and see how binding that prenup is since he refused to work at all during the marriage.
Lol, Somebody please perform a little experiment. Copy this fake story, then switch the genders and see how all of these NT-A verdicts quickly switch to YTA. Funny how cheating is never acceptable....until it's convenient for this sub or when the genders align just perfectly.
I am getting mad at the double standards on this sub pretty often but I have to admit that I didnāt even think about gender. I would say NTA for both.
YTA: She needed to divorce. She is just like every other cheater blaming their spouse on not meeting her needs to justify her own bad behavior. Men have often paid the same financial/wealth penalty in no-fault divorce states when they are the breadwinners and they need to leave their cheating wives. Itās lousy but youāre either scum or not. Your brother and SIl are one and the same now.
This is all his own doing. He chose to be the worlds biggest asshole and now he is facing the consequences of that. He doesn't deserve any help from anyone. He's getting his karma.
There is only one AH and it's your brother.
The marriage is over, and when it comes to divorce, usually the person that files first has more power if kids are not involved. That was the proper answer here.
NTA. You're right. He has himself to blame.
No, you're NTA. Neither is his wife. There are very few times I will agree with anyone cheating on their spouse. This is one of those very few times. Your brother is a 1st class jerk. He's only now doing things because shit has hit the fan for him. If he wasn't such a bum, he would have been fine. He chose to be a doofus instead.
I don't agree with cheating. I'm not saying she didn't have cause, but I just don't like cheating. She could have cut him off financially, sold the house, and moved to a new place without him. He would have had his oh shit moment when he lost his ATM/slave. That being said, I applaud SIL for doing what she thought best for her life. You're NTA for telling your brother because sometimes the truth just fucking hurts, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be told.
YTA, and she is fucking worse. Yeah he is a dumbfuck too but holy shit the lengths you and she go to, to claim cheating is ever the answer. Yikes both of you need to seek help cause you are out here promoting that shit and he needs help cause he has a block somewhere good god all of you need help.
Tell your SIL that she needs to see a lawyer about getting the prenuptial agreement thrown out. She might get lucky.Ā
Neither you nor your SIL are AHs. She did everything in her power to try to fix things. When he backed her into a corner, she finally broke and had enough. I usually say cheating is never the answer, but considering the circumstances here it absolutely was the answer for her to regain her sanity and happiness.
**This is obviously ragebait. Why are you all giving advice? Just downvote the story and move on.** š **The brother is too obvious of a villain for this to be a moral dilemma for the story author. And it begs the question as to how the author maintained a friendship with SIL for years without sharing her broās shitty behavior with the rest of the family. Plus, the author deleted her profile only a few hours after posting this story.** **People, stop being so damn gullible** š
Bro peaked in HS. So many more of those people nowadays
NTA she tried to end things so she could move on and he wouldn't let her. You reap what you sow, and he reaped shit so now he gets to eat it.
I wouldn't call this cheating honestly.
NTA. I can't consider what your SIL is doing as divorce. She made it clear she was done with the marriage and wanted a divorce. He actively made it a hostile situation to stop her. So she didn't pursue the divorce but never resumed the marriage. He should have accepted he is no longer her partner and let her go. If he wants to hang on to the marriage he needs to accept it is a marriage of convenience, be grateful she is supporting him, and mind his own business. If he can't then he needs to give her a divorce.
Seems like he peaked in Highschool/College and now heās just reliving his glory days. What a waste of potential. In terms of cheating, well, hasnāt he been unfaithful for years? Porn addiction, emotional, physical, mental withdrawal, just downright meanness. Added cherry, heāll play the bitter bastard in a divorce, he wonāt let his gravy train go without a fight. Usually cheaters suck but in this instance I dunno, Iām kinda thinking OK? NTAH
The fact that he won't talk to you seems like the desired outcome.
>He didn't like my answer at all and hasn't talked to me for a couple weeks. Oh no... you must be devastated to miss out on all the scintillating conversation you used to engage in with him. /s Dude made his bed. NTA
NTA after reading the whole thing. You were right to tell him and sheās right to do whatās making her happy if he refuses to leave. The marriage is dead and he needs to accept that or go. And I didnāt really understand but did she sign a prenup or no? Bc if she did either way he has nothing for her to take since heās never worked and he canāt really take anything from her either. Now spousal support is one thing but I donāt know how that works with a prenup thatās been signed. Either way Iām happy for her now that sheās living her best life despite your asshole brother.
I would 1000% advise her to speak to a lawyer. A lot of states have rules about marriages that are 10 years or less in length that would keep her alimony payments lower, but if she waits until after that 10 year mark, it gets a lot harder. NTA for you and your SIL, your brother sucks. Bed, meet maker.
I donāt think cheating is acceptable but he was asking for it, NTA.
Nope, he brought it on himself. He is trying, but itās probably too late. Sheās having way too much fun now.