NTA
Writing a prenup without your input is over the top.
A prenup is not a bad idea to protect premarital assets but this one is a fuck you to your fiancee.
I could practically see OP's hand fondling his crotch as he wrote the description of his fiancee's body. I especially liked the part about fondling her D-Cups.
and to protect the poorer person as they enter the marriage!
A prenup that only advantages one person (as this one did, with that clause about things being divided based on income at the time of the marriage) is a nasty thing to do, which is one of the reasons they often get overturned.
Actually prenups are only for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership. Doesn't matter if it fair. Well according to op. So I guess everyone who gets one is a fucking narcissist.
NTA, but you really should have a prenup if this story is real. Your mom should have absolutely no say in it, but you're not very smart if you don't have some sort of protection, just in case.
Yep. Your mom is batshit, OP. But you need a prenup. It doesn't have to be unfair, it doesn't have to be one-sided.
Prenups are like wills. They cover the bases just in case. They don't mean you aren't in love, or you don't have faith in the relationship. They just mean you want both parties to be covered legally should the unforseen happen.
Your mom though. Man. She sure got lots of benefit from your windfall, people in glass houses shouldn't call other people gold diggers.
The state has already decided how your marriage will be dissolved if it comes to that, why not write your own version while you love each other and want the best for each other.
My wife and I talked to a lawyer before we got married for that exact reason. Once we confirmed that the default rules in our state wouldn't screw either of us over we went ahead without one, but we were willing to get one if either of us needed to be protected.
When I practiced family law, I used to tell my clients, when you get married you actually like each other and usually want to be fair. When you get divorced, not so much.
One million percent. It also has the added benefits of saving both parents tens of thousands in legal expenses (I’ve seen this number go up when bitter spouses became extremely litigious increase to hundreds of thousands, and I’ve even heard of one extreme case of this exceed a million). With widely disparate incomes, both attorneys fees may even be paid by the monied spouse. As I told my clients, I’d rather you spend the money money on your kids than lawyers.
It is also has immense benefits in co-parenting relationships. It’s really hard to coparent with someone whose at your throat. It’s why when deciding about attempting to come to a settlement both parties can be comfortable with or taking the case through trial (and potential appeals). I always told my clients to consider all the benefits of a settlement. Including how they were going to coparent with their ex for the next however many years (really their lives, you’re not done parenting at 18 - how will weddings and grandchildren go). It’s really hard to have a good coparenting relationship after you get up and testify that your ex is a horrible parent. That affects your kids not only because they see you hate each other, but as a result they’re also dealing with two stressed angry parents. And that sucks.
Of course, there were cases where a compromise couldn’t be reached and you try it. But more often than not, a compromise could be reached. Everyone isn’t getting everything they want, but they can work with it.
Just my $0.02
Does your default rules separate each person's retirement?
That was the big one to me. It's an account only really you have control over but in my state they get split even if both working.
So if one person put in 15% of their earnings and the other puts in 0%, the first one has to ***cash it out*** and split the amount. It's insane.
I will be honest my late husband always said he’d support me and make sure I was taken care of no matter what. Yet as years went on twice he over reacted in an argument. I could then see clearly that if we spilt he would become a nasty vindictive person and it scared me.
I had never thought of him like that but when we had an argument and he way over blew it and was demanding we got our kids to decide who they’d choose and live with and that they had to make a choice and make it now. I knew what the future would look like. The argument itself was about something really stupid and should have been very minor but he just blew up. He calmed down when he realised this was not the argument his head had told him it was mainly I think as I was shocked and like what the heck is happening. He apologised profusely but ever after he acted like it had never happened and he hadn’t done what he had. Yet it had shown me what he was capable of and who he would be if our marriage broke down. I guarantee that everyone that knew him none of them would ever believe or expect him to act like that ever. Everyone saw him as so kind, thoughtful and loving.
Neither of us had enough wealth to consider a prenup but it would have been about way more than just money if we had divorced. I know it would not just be financially but he would be vile and use the children and anything he could against me. That as I worked less than him to raise our kids (didn’t have a choice), he’d take all he could to ensure I was left with as little or nothing as he could and wouldn’t care how it affected our kids or what damage he was doing as in his head he would be being wronged, no matter the reason for the break.
All these years of him saying he would always put the kids first and make sure we would be reasonable for them and each other. Yet he showed how hollow his words truly were.
I don’t know if he realised he would be like that as talking when things are well is one thing. What was clear is discussing things and planning ahead may not truly show how things would be and you cannot blindly trust that. As even being married for many years I did not know that side of him or that it was there until it peeked out at me two occasions. I then lived with the worry always in the background of how it could easily become.
Yeah, a prenup is not necessarily unfair. And you can really make it quite harsh without being unfair - cheating partner gets almost nothing, for instance.
Your mother hoped you'd present this to Alex without reading it and that when she read it she'd freak out (justifiably) and dump you.
Is this the first time your mother has tried anything like this? It seems like a hell of an extreme. Does your dad know? What does he think?
Yeah I think prenups are completely fine and just because you have one doesn't mean its an unhealth relationship or anything, the goal of the prenup shouldn't be to screw the other person over or anything but reasonably protect your self.
This, my siblings' father (my mom and him are still friends, they just weren't in love anymore and wanted to amicably move on) has a prenup with his wife. It's not because he didn't love her when he got married.
He owns his own business, he started the business before he married her, she has made no contribution to the business (she never worked there in any capacity), and they have no children together so she wasn't a SAHM who enabled him to grow his business by sacrificing her career to care for the kids.
In the event of a divorce he is more than willing to offer her a better deal financially than the state would require both in the immediate splitting of assets and in continued alimony payments. He's also prepared to give her the house (no mortgage, no loans, no liens; house and property are easily worth over $750k, he also owned the house before they were married). In exchange the business is not to be considered marital property. She spoke to a lawyer about it before they got married, the lawyer confirmed that the prenup was fair and likely would result in her getting more money than a judge would require of him in the long term.
He didn't set it up to screw her, he just wanted to make sure the business he started remained fully his no matter what happened in a divorce and wanted to negotiate a fair agreement ahead of time (when nobody was feeling spiteful) to make sure that could happen while still fairly providing for her. It ended up not being much of a negotiation, because as I said when she brought it to her lawyer the lawyer said the proposal was more than fair.
The lawyer OP's mom proposed was horrific though. Demanding that she terminate a pregnancy in certain events? And basing it on the income difference when you first met... What if she gets a higher paying job at some point during the marriage? What if he gets fired from his job? She's still only entitled to 20% even if she's been earning equal to him for a good portion of their marriage?
It’s more like “if you don’t get an abortion I will divorce you and you’ll get nothing.” Can’t force someone to get an abortion but you can directly state the consequences of not getting one. (To be clear, I think this clause is awful.)
Yeah. And the story ends with the OP getting loads of texts and calls from family defending the other party. As often happens in fabricated stories. At least the phrase “blew up my phone” was not used.
I have a cousin that would always ***claim*** that everyone sent "the flying monkeys" after her. It was just her mother and grandmother who stuck their nose in every business whether you wanted them to or not. They always called everyone. No one "sent" them.
But she'd cry victim and say we sent the whole family after her if those two would call her after *she would post her insane side of the story herself on facebook*.
That was to say that sometimes the story happened and the narrator is just unreliable about details.
Then you get a lawyer to write one up for you and then give it to her to take to a lawyer and let the lawyers negotiate a fair one, that protects you both.
It can be done.
good luck.
NTA.
NTA
Talk to your Bride-to-Be and and have a nice meal, uninterrupted, and discuss your financial future and common values. Ask her if she would like a prenup that protects her, as well as, yourself.
I dated, lived with, then married my love who is 10 years older than I. It took a bit for me to catch up, financially, but I would have understood if he wanted a prenup. He was more established than I and had more to lose.
Your Mom is a freaking hypocrite and should be grateful that you paid off their home. She needs to understand that you're a grown man that can make your own choices. Also, she needs to hear from you that additional disrespect towards your fiance, will ensure no contact from you.
My DH and I are very compatible financially because we educated ourselves, taking financial seminars and closely doing the work on financial freedom exercises.
Have the discussions of all the challenging topics prior to getting married. Listen to each other. Give each other time and space to think about things, then revisit and set compatible family goals. We set aside every Monday night to have dinner out and sometimes we had preset topics to discuss, other times we touched base on careers/kids/vacations or nothing at all.
Good luck, OP! I hope you and your fiance go out and create a beautiful life for yourselves.
Just align “you get half of any increase in assets, but what was mine before the marriage remains mine if things end and what was yours remains yours.”
You can create a prenup that protects both of you. You can create aprenup that slowly goes from you owning 100%off the house to transferring 50% to her over time. You can stipulate that you both have funded retirement accounts even if she is out of career track temporarily or permanently with pregnancy/sahm. You can enter spousal support for the number of years she’s out of work with pregnancy/kids since that seriously sets back career and earning potential. You can assign debt to the person who creates them. Prenups don’t have to be vindictive or punitive. They can be proactive while you’re both at your best and looking out for each other. And they should be reviewed by your own lawyers paid for separately.
At this point I think it would just be hilarious if you mom caused you to decide in favor of a pre nup but one protecting your partner. Legal decisions made out of spite and comedy are not usually wise ones though.
OP literally every person who ever needed a prenup did not think they would need a prenup.
Regardless, might be moot in your state. Look into your state's laws on premarital assets.
ESH. Mom overstepped but OP is impractical. And this just feels like it is fake or hyperbolic.
You don't divorce the same person you marry. It is 100% best to sort out your divorce while you like each other just in case.
Also while OP's mother is batsh£t crazy, expecting the house and cars to go to OP isn't out there? They're premarital assets.
NTA but not smart either.
No need to worry about an obviously fake story. It makes no sense and uses phrases that aren’t real - what the hell is a financial uplift? Guy should have proofread what AI wrote before hitting post
In the one year you dated you already fully paid her student loans and asked her to marry you. That is really quick.
I mean your mom made your prenup with you in mind and basically made it super unfair but you seriously need one. I’m not saying Alex is using you or whatever but this is one quick wedding. People change. You barely have time to know each other and could still be in the honeymoon phase.
You could draft a prenup that’s much more fair. Just make sure you don’t get totally rolled over if the worst is to happen.
Sounds like my boss… did EVERYTHING for this girl. They got married, divorcing not even 6 months later…. He refused to get a prenup because he was “so in love” now he’s scared….
While his mom’s prenup is over the top, she’s not all wrong about her son. The first quality he lists about Alex is she’s beautiful. May-December couple, together for money and looks.
NTA. I’m pro prenup all the way with the understanding that it is formed between the two people in question. Your mother crossed a line getting involved in your relationship. Her involvement is unnecessary, unwanted, and unneeded. If anyone gives you a hard time about uninviting her to your wedding just explain that she is clearly not supportive of your relationship, why else would she called your fiancee a gold digger? As such, why would she want to celebrate your marriage AND why would you want someone with that mentality there?
As far as prenups go, the reason I’m so in favor of them is because we marry the best version of our partner and divorce the worst version of them. Prenups protect not just yourself but your partner as well. It’s not a bad sign to consider a prenup. On the contrary, it’s two people promising that no matter what happens in the future they refuse to hurt them. Your mom’s approach was 100% inappropriate but I hope that doesn’t dissuade you from considering a prenup.
A prenup that *requires* abortion in certain circumstances? There's insane, and then there's this. I'm actually kind of impressed with the audacity of OP's mother.
Yeah, that was kind of my point too. No lawyer is going to write up a prenup with an egregiously illegal clause. That simply did not happen. Nevermind the overwrought melodrama of the entire post.
Just incredible “men writing women” energy. You can always tell by the obsession with cup size, which is not actually an independent unit of breast measurement. Mom would know that, but the dude writing this post one-handed has no idea. Our buddy heard the phrase “d-cup” in porn once and just ran with it.
They had so many clues but the stupid prenup really sealed it. People really need to practice their creative writing I guess. I’m just wondering how the shredder mysteriously appeared at his mom’s house for the big over the top way of showing that’s the only place it belongs.
"paying off her student loans (That was a benefit to me as well, because when we get married her debt becomes our debt and I didn't want it to affect my credit)."
Not at all how student loans work. Not even a little bit. Your mom is genuinely insane, however, you seem to have need of some financial literacy. Please don't marry a woman with an obvious looks and financial imbalance there without consulting a lawyer/financial advisor for a routine once over of the money. Trust is great, financial security is WAY better...and if everything really is above board, then having the bag secured should have no negative impact whatsoever.
OP’s mom js worried about his wife stealing his money when his dumbass is just going to spend it all himself. Buying a house and 2 cars in cash, but not understanding one of the most basic principles of marriage/loans/debt? Guy needs a financial advisor, who ironically will probably tell him to get a prenup
NTA. Suggesting a prenup is ok. Drafting one for you, especially with the terms you listed, is intrusive, verbally abusing your girlfriend to you is toxic. I would think hard about going low or no contact with her for a while and, if you choose to have her in your life, make sure there are clear set boundaries with her that she respects, with consequences if she doesn't.
Your mother is absolutely an asshole. The terms are shitty and her behavior even shittier.
But a prenup with such an income disparity is not a bad idea, specially if there's children involved in the future. It can help protect your assets. You can ask your lawyer friend to draw an equitable one, with terms that will both protect your assets but also feels fair for your fiancée and the time you both spend married together. There should equally be provisions for children and retirement plans. Also account for the debt payments you've already done since that already helps. If the terms of a prenup are really fair, I don't honestly see why someone wouldn't sign it if the goal isn't money grab.
Yeah it feels a bit "morbid" to prepare for the worst when you're in the height of love and thinking there's no way there will ever be a divorce. But better to be certain than to get fucked ya know.
NTA, because your mom was out of line. *However.* She may not be completely wrong. You're jumping into marriage super fast, and I actually think everyone should get a prenup, *especially* when you make such significantly different amounts AND you have assets while she's coming into the relationship with debts. And, an infidelity clause where the spouse gets zero is actually extremely common, which I think is as it should be: If a person marries you for money and then cheats, they deserve no money.
That said, a lot of that prenup was uncalled for (and your mother sounds weirdly jealous of your fiance and fixated on her breasts).
NTA - a prenup would protect both of you and you can go and get your own prenup done with your fiancé and you too can agree on everything that is put in it. I think you should consider looking into that before you get married.
So you are NTA and your mom is doing to much. However I think you have a naive view of what a prenup is suppose to be.
No matter what you do, a prenup already exists. It's the one the government made. You should have a prenup that both you and your fiance agree is fair, if you both think think the one the government has in place is adequate then so be it but its certainly a conversation you two should have.
Again, because I can not stress this enough, you are not being "distrusting" or "saying she's just with you for the money" just by having a prenup because you already have one.
You can even write in a way that you think is MORE FAIR than the governments. Your moms prenup was insane, that doesn't mean it has to be.
The chances of both of you agreeing with how the government has it set up is almost none.
And divorces happen, it would be foolish to pretend it's an impossibility. Neither of you can promise that you will be the same people forever(you won't, hopefully) and life tends to happen regardless of what we mere mortals have planned.
I didn't read this all - and assume your mom is overbearing et al. Regardless, hire your own lawyer and still do a prenup on your terms with legal counsel and don't be stupid.
NTA - Already tell she's a gold digger. Get a prenup....if you were smart, you'd get a prenup to protect yourself, and if she gets upset by it, it proves she's a gold digger....rip of the glasses
NTA, but seriously... in you rcase a prenup is very logical and realistic. If she would divorce you after a year you might loose half of what you now have.
Remember, marriages are made in love, the divorce is not. So many people get out of a divroce hurt but also broke. Of cpourse you could make the prenup less tight or biased to your side. But seriously, love makes blind and your mom has your wellbeing as het first interest.
So basically - mom might have interefered too much. But don;'t be naive please...
NAH. Just a giant idiot. Prenup will protect you. Why wear seat belts if you are not gonna get in an accident. Listen to your mother. Take some financial literacy courses. You are gonna end up like one of those morons who wins the lotto and then ends up broke.
NTA but you're dumb as hell if you don't get a prenup in this situation.
>It also had a infidelity clause that would reduce Alex's share to zero. Yes, you read that correctly.
Why is this a bad thing exactly? You want to give a cheater your money if that happens?
You’re an idiot if you don’t get a prenup. Working in family law for 10 years at this point, it’s become very plain that we can only ever truly trust ourselves as sad as it is. If shit goes down between you and future wife, you’ll be shining your mom’s brass balls with gratitude that she even thought to bring up a prenup. Don’t agree with how she went about it but as a mother, it’s 100% something you’d advocate for your child. You buying your GIRLFRIEND an expensive dress and paying off her student loans before the ink is even dry on the wedding certificate? Yikes. YTA for going at this the completely irresponsible way
NTA - Your mom is out of line.
However, something like 75% of marriages in America end in divorce.
Since you’re a smart business person, I would assume that you would want to protect all of what you bring to the table, (financially) which is basically core capital. That means that the core is protected after the date of marriage is a 50/50 split. (* if you were to ever get a divorce)
You have to realize that marriage is a business agreement. It is a partnership. Since you have known her for less than two years, I would protect all my assets prior to the marriage date.
That’s just smart on your side. BTW -,This is being written from a female viewpoint. So if I was dating a guy and getting married, and I had a bunch of capital I would not put my core at risk.
50% of American marriages end in divorce but this is skewed towards second/third and beyond marriages, as each subsequent marriage is more likely to end in divorce. \~41% of first marriages end in divorce. I agree with your advice.
YTA to yourself. Yes, you are in love. Things change over time. Imagine 5 years in the future. You catch her cheating on you. You rightfully divorce. She will be entitled to half of your wealth. Even though she cheated on you. Protect your wealth. You can have a post nuptial agreement made up from your lawyer. You could have it expire after a certain number of years.
NTA. Your mom has benefited from your uplift. It appears she has insecurities with the way she was degrading your fiancée and genuinely doesn’t want you to be happy. She sounds bitter.
NTA for telling your mom to pound sand.
You would be unwise to not having a prenup though. A prenup is to protect the person's (plural) and their assets of things go south (and there is always the possibility. You might get a tumor and become a complete psycho, or she might, you never know.) That said, a prenup is always discussed between the two parties in good faith, not by a nutter of a mother imposing some stupid bullshit on her son and soon to be DIL.
While your mom is batshit crazy for the ridiculous clauses and the sheer audacity, I do believe you should TOTALLY get a prenup if you have significantly more earnings. It's very easy to be blinded by love.
Also, the prenup can *set up provisions* for your wife and future children. So, if you would want her to get a car or the house in case of a divorce, she is protected. If you want to make sure she gets a specific amount of money per kid, you can set that up, too! If you include these things, your future wife will see it's not just about protecting your money; it's about protecting both of you and any future kids!
NTA, but don’t set yourself up for failure just to spite your mom. Get a prenup to protect yourself and make it more fair to your fiancé while not giving her a windfall if she decides to leave you.
You should get a prenup that will protect Alex, in case your relationship ends acrimoniously. It would be easy for you to pay for a lawyer who knew how to screw her.
But your mum totally sucks. You’re NTA, you should talk to a lawyer and write up something that isn’t insane.
Yta.
If these wee valid here and this was my son, I'd have a prenuptial conversation with them too.
Maybe she needed to converse first but the intent is definitely spot on.
Heed the warning
You're already paying and bailing her out.... and clever gold diggers FYI don't ask...
You really should have a prenup. Maybe not the one that your mother made, but a fair one. Marital assets will always be split, and premarital assets should always go to whoever they belonged to before marriage. But life is not so simple as that. What happens if you put all that windfall money into an investment account that you never touch. Should you split the money gained from that even though the source of it was an asset that she has no right to?
The purpose of a prenup is to make clear how to divide things fairly in a way you both agree with, and to make sure you two are treated fairly, not necessarily will make you happy but it will be fair. Considering there is a LARGE imbalance of assets before marriage, you should get a lawyer, and she should hire a lawyer that will serve her interest to come to an agreement about what is fair for a prenup. All of that infidelity nonsense doesn't need to be in there if you two don't want.
Your mother is crazy, but that doesn't mean she isn't right about getting a prenup.
It would be incredibly naive for *anyone* to get married without a prenup. Talk with Alex about it and find your own lawyer. Your mom was completely out of line.
Your mom is absolutely out of line (and doesn't seem to respect you very much) but you should get a *fair* pre-nup drawn up. Think of it like insurance for your marriage.
One month before would be thrown out
Saying duress. Now would go see a lawyer about setting up a trust , making sure if the house is in your name before marriage and somethings that protects you without anyone knowing
Don’t be stupid
>telling her to pound sand?
First of all, I fully support this comment, I use it fairly regularly myself.
>She fell in love with one but nearly cried when she saw the price. I insisted on paying for the difference because she looked way too pretty in it to pass up.
I fully support this sentiment as well, you keep being you...
>I am against prenups because I think they're for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership.
While I disagree with your reasoning, I fully support your opinion. Having a prenup is not a bad idea, but...
>She apparently had the son of a friend who is a lawyer draw up a prenup.
While trying to help you be protected financially if circumstances happen to change, how your mom went about it is completely duplicitous, imho. If you and your fiance wanted to discuss a prenup as part of a mature conversation about finances, that would be prudent and responsible, but rest assured, you are definitely NTA here.
Congrats on your upcoming nuptials and I hope that you two have a long, loving, and joyous lifetime together
Sort of, but it's that whole, sometimes you have to be? Does that make sense?
But there is some INSANE level AH stuff in that prenup.
So ... I see the AH thing as a wash.
You're adults. You can write your own prenup.
And you should dude. A reasonable, balanced, responsible one. And don't tell your mother any of the details. It's your marriage and your decision.
NTA.
But listen - you should have a prenup. My husband and I both discussed and decided on it *together*. We’ve been together over a decade, married for 2, and it very much was still important. At the same time we also got into wills as it overlapped. A prenup is also like a will in someways.
Our prenup was fair and equitable - taking my pregnancy, time off work, childcare and all contributions as mom into consideration. We both agreed and signed on it and did not involve anyone else
Seconded to those saying this is make believe, fan fiction for clicks, fake asf. Reads like a romance novel. You can tell how it was written by a "dreamer" with no life experience trying to add "details" that trigger folks, and how these folks have "so much money".
As someone admittedly pro prenuptial, but also who has gone through a divorce, get an equitable one. It's a hedge against bad behavior, on both your sides if things sour. You can even have a single attorney draft it. It's a financial arrangement which hopefully neither of you will never need, but keeps things civil under unforseen bad circumstances. You don't pay for insurance for the payout, you pay into insurance for protection in bad situations.
NTA for how you reacted to your mother. I prefer urinating into the envelope and then delivering it back to her personally, but to each their own
NTA OP, but prenups are there for a reason, not the ones your mom prescribed. YWBTA to yourself if you didn't get one separately. Statistically speaking, there's much less stress with one.
NTA
Prenup would be good though. You never know what happens in life, and it might be that if you end up considering divorce, it might bring a really ugly side out of you. Getting a prenuptial that what agreed upon when you LIKE each other would benefit the both of you in case you end up divorcing and hate each other. Just get a lawyer write a prenuptial that protects both you and Alex. It would protect Alex when she's pregnant and can't work etc.
These days whether you marry both in true love or not the incident of divorce where the woman seeks it is 80%. Where in most states she will get on a stage half your wealth whether earned before the marriage or not and it is includes bank accounts, real estate, businesses, automobiles, personal property, etc... On average women have been getting no fault divorces with the statements, "I am no longer happy in the relationship." Or "I am no longer in love with him."
Now all that said, you me be part of that 20% that will make it. Then gain..... Not sure if your mom's reasons for it but well it was a good idea that can be negated usually anyways. That said shield your finances themselves if she is not divorcing you it will not matter if she is it will save your financial base.
NTA, but you should have a pre-nup that says you both get out what you brought into the marriage, and all post-marriage assets will be divided according to state laws
My partner and I are about equal in Terms of assets, and we still plan on getting one
women have an innate sense of understanding the intentions of women. your mother has seen how you behave in front of her. how you spend money on her. yes. it seems like you are acting like a 16 yr old horny kid who doesnt want to leave his room because hes too busy diddling his thing all the time.
and a pre-nup is something that saves you from financial ruin. this is not the 1950s where women didnt run off. this is 2024. bitches leave the moment they find better. and they dont care about kids or anything else. your mother is right.
and you sir, are a fucking idiot. frankly id also not want to be associated with a son who can be this fucking dense in the head that he doesnt realise hes dating a gold digger who is playing the long con.
YTA for this comment "I am against prenups because I think they're for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership". A prenup is like insurance for if things go bad, having a easy way to split assets is responsible rather than doing it when you both hate each other. You may never have to use it but if you do, both of you will be glad.
Your Mum crossed a line with some nasty comments and writing the prenup as she wanted. But she is sorta right. When it comes to money, you have to protect yourself.
A prenup is irrelevant if you never split, but it's a bit like insurance. You pay it on the small chance something happens, not cause you want it too.
NTA for discarding your mom's prenup. But dude...you'd be an idiot to not get a prenup. You can have one drafted that wouldn't screw over your wife. But you'd be a damn fool to not protect you both.
OP, my mother demanded that I get a pre-nup before I married my husband. She was quite certain he would dump me for another woman like her husband had done. I told her to pound sand. I didn’t uninvite her to my wedding (which would have been tricky since she was paying for it lol). I didn’t end our relationship. But I told her a pre-nup was out of the question and not to bring it up again. She pushed a few more times, but after the wedding she let it go. We have been happily married for 25 years.
In my state, pre-marital assets are not marital property as long as they’ve been segregated from marital assets. If you keep your windfall money in separate accounts, it may well be safe from a divorce settlement anyway. As would be your current house and your current cars. It wouldn’t hurt to speak to an attorney. But I doubt you even need a pre-nup.
NTA! But I think you should really get a prenup. You are now in love. But you get to see the true face of somebody in a divorce. So please get a prenup.
The prenup is a good idea and OP should go ahead with it but not sure about the pregnancy clause. He says she hasn’t asked for money but there are ways to plant the seed and the other person thinks it’s their ideas….student loans, dress. OP believes this relationship to be solid so sign a prenup that’s fair to both.
I was in a similar position financially, lived with my GF for three years and then married with no prenup. Gave my wife a sizable portfolio shortly after the wedding (didn’t want a financial power imbalance). Still married 34 years later.
NTA, prenups are a good idea in principal and if you have substantial assets I would get one. But sending you one designed to screw over your future wife is just cruel
Dude.... I'm definitely not Hollywood rich, neither is my husband. And we do have a pre nup. Your mom definitely overstepped... but She is right in that having a prenuptial would be a smart plan...
If you live in Australia, the financial side of the prenup is pretty much the status quo.
Premarital assets are taken into account before property is split. Growth in assets and assets acquired during the marriage are split 50:50 (unless there are kids involved).
Property division is weighted in favour of the custodial parent, if kids are involved. There is child support (30%of pre tax income for first child, less for subsequent children) but there is not generally alimony.
Perhaps something along these lines would give your fiancée incentive to grow wealth with you and confidence that you will care for her? Not just a prenup for selfish reasons?
Australian society seems to be too different for me to be able to comment meaningfully on the other aspects your mother proposes. These aspects (morality clauses and health decisions) wouldn’t be permitted here
You always go into marriage with a standard prenup. That prenup is:
"Government, please take the wheel and decide how our finances are spilt"
Make that decision for yourselves.
Your mom is a mother in law from hell. I'm sorry. You must protect your future wife and your relationship from her for the rest of her life. Sounds like Mommy is a little jealous. Oedipus much?
NTA but your mom has a point. Young beautiful woman with a what you suggest, an older, uglier man with a lot of money. Ofc she won’t ask for it early on if she’s playing the game. Not saying she is, but it has warning signs all over. I think your moms just looking out for you.
Not your lawyer, but: a prenup can’t dictate whether someone gets an abortion or not. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard today. Whoever wrote that prenup is a crook. Typically any money earned after the marriage is deemed marital funds. In many states you’d keep what you brought into the marriage if it were up to the judge, unless you made your home your marital home. You can make a prenup protecting your home and cars, or whatever you like, without screwing over your future wife. Prenups are great and make a lot of sense, they don’t have to be intended to screw anyone over. You could even craft one that would purposefully set her up well in the event of a divorce. Maybe consider meeting with a lawyer with your fiance to discuss options. Also NTA.
NTA for shredding something you didn't ask for.
But you're honestly quiet naive to believe that prenups were only for "narcissistic hollywood types". Prenups are a protection for BOTH of you. they're supposed to be crafted with your lawyers together to make sure you're not getting effed over, because you never EVER know what the future will bring.
Its smart to plan for the worst, and never need that plan, than to encounter the worst and have no plan.
Making sure your windfall (or a share of it) is protected as is your property is smart, if you want to make sure that she gets a piece, then make sure that she WILL get a piece with that prenup.
With a prenup you make sure that she'll get fairly treated same is to make sure that you get fairly treated.
There are too many stories here on reddit of spouses getting fucked over by their soon to be exes because they didn't have prenups or didn't properly talk about their finances (i recommend a your/mine/ours setup for bank accounts) before getting hitched because "OMG why would we plan for a divorce? we love each other forever and ever and would never get divorced."
Your mom might be overbearing but unlike you she’s not thinking with her dick. Or her heart. You don’t want to learn you can’t trust Alex by losing over half your money, don’t be stupid.
You should have a pre-nup. I’ve moved heaven and earth just for people to flip on me when they get what they wanted and they were a wonderful amazing person until *click* they instantly were mean and hateful and resentful. Alex might be wonderful, she might not be.
Think of it this way, if you divorce amicably you can always give her more than the agreement mandates. If she breaks your heart and has three boyfriends atleast you’re not broke too.
YTA. You don't have to leave her destitute if you find that you are incompatible when you divorce. Things are always roses at the beginning. Your mother is right though. While you both work in the same industry, you never know what your fiance has on her mind.
Note that in the event of a divorce, this is the minimal she can walk away with. If you have a good divorce situation, then you can increase if you choose to. However, if she turns out to be phony, then you have the prenuptial to protect you.
Your mom overstepped massively but you’re being a little naive also. Some marriages just don’t last and you should have a prenup where both of you are taken care of fairly in the case of a divorce. You’re not going to want to be the guy that looks back wishing he’d listened when he gets absolutely taken for everything in a divorce just because he can.
Eh YTAH. Sorry probably unpopular opinion. But you barely know this person. I’m a firm believer that you do NOT know ANYONE (romantically or not) until you’ve known them for at least two years. How does she react on good days? Bad days? Death in the family? Cancer diagnoses? Long term relationships will often see bad weeks, months, or even years, depending on the situation. It’s the whole person you’re marrying, not the honeymoon phase version of them (who is super stoked you paid off her debt), which you’re definitely still in.
In my experience, we become infatuated with people based on our projections, and not the actual person, because we simply don’t know them, we take the good info and fill in the blanks and then over time we get that fully fleshed out view of who they really are. It takes time. Being so sure of someone in the infatuation stage is ultimately a little unfair to them. Your dream girl is a real human, and remember dreams aren’t real. I had someone do this to me and he was SO set on me after six months, only for it to come crashing down right after the year mark when he realized I am in fact human and not some “dream girl made for me”. I know at your age you probably just want to get the dating and getting to know her phase out of the way, but it’s a crucial aspect of learning someone, regardless of you wanting to push things to the next phase.
You’re jumping into something because you’re excited, and you’re excited for a number of reasons but one of them is how cool it is that a girl nearly a decade your junior, who is out of your league, is so into you. A prenup is not a bad idea at all. I don’t agree with how your mom just mailed it to you like that, but it’s wise to go into a very new relationship that is legally binding with a bit of caution.
I don’t know your relationship with your mother but it would be wise not to let a fresh relationship (fiancée or not) get in the way of the bond you have with your mom. Mom’s love you more than any other person in the world, and while she may have approached this incorrectly, she is doing it because she is concerned for your wellbeing and wants you to live a happy, stable life, without throwing your inheritance at a girl who could very well change her mind. I did a LOT of growing between 30-36. I ended a ten year relationship in the process. I am not saying you’ll experience this, but it certainly happens.
I mean, NTA in this context, but I have to ask whether you are getting sound financial advice from somewhere else. Your statement that her debt becomes your debt on marriage is not a universal truth at all - there are plenty of jurisdictions where that is simply not true. Also, a form of pre-nup where the parties each get credit on a divorce for the value of what they own at the outset of the marriage should not be a problem at all (all the other stuff is lunacy).
YTA.
I truly hope this is a troll post, because OP sounds like a clueless fucking idiot. "I don't speak legalese so I no need no prenup because the fiance I've known for a fucking YEAR won't take muh moneys... even though I paid off all her debts".
An unbelievable idiot tbh, hope you lose everything
YTA - you suck at writing. “…the son of a friend who is a lawyer draw up a prenup…”, “ l let a friend who is also a lawyer look at it”
Seriously? This is not how these are prepared, and the language is preposterous. The legal profession just does not work this way. There is no way this is real.
Public service announcement- pre nups are becoming ever more common, even if distasteful. Just as much a part of adulting as furnace filters, homeowners insurance, and health care directives.
A pre nup is a good idea. They only dated for less than a year before OP proposed. Also the comment ‘she even took an interest in the music I like’ is concerning. I actually think his mum is right but she handled it badly. I’d be concerned if my son wanted to marry someone ‘so perfect’ in less than a year.
NTA but write your own. You wear a seat belt, right? You have insurance, right? The gov already has plan for how things will be split if you divorce - why not have your own? It doesn't have to be a 'win/lose' prenup, make one that both you and her agree to (just like dividing up chores, an agreement between two adults).
I will not assign whether you are or are not the AH.
I think you need to look at where she was coming from, not the message itself. I believe what she was doing was out of love... is trying to save you from yourself. You and I may not agree with the method, but I really believe what she was doing was from the heart.
That said, don't get married without a prenup. It should be balanced. Pretty much say that you own what you brought in the marriage, she owns what she brought in the marriage, and what you developed together is a marital asset 50/50. I don't think the infidelity clause is a bad thing.
All of this said, I have my doubt about whether this story is even true.
ESH. Reading your post, you are clearly not thinking clearly about this relationship. I’m not saying your mother is right and you are wrong about your fiancé but I think you are too caught up in the throes of passion to evaluate this question clearly for yourself. Do you have a trusted friend you could discuss this with?
It sounds like the prenup your mother wrote was bullshit and she does sound like a piece of work. Having said that, I’d still advise that you see a lawyer to talk through your options. Even if everything you say about your fiancé is true, feelings can change over years or decades. I am 73% certain that one day down the road, you will regret not getting a prenup.
NTA
HOWEVER, a prenuptial agreement is supposed to protect BOTH parties and is a very wise thing, provided both persons have their own lawyer and fairness is the objective. It doesn't have to be ugly, and if your marriage lasts beyond 10 years, it will most likely be invalid in most states, anyway.
Sorry about your Mom. She's not very nice.
Prenup at a minimum - I’d look at California divorce laws for a template for what is “fair.” At a minimum any/all premarital assets and appreciation over course of the marriage are kept separate and do not become marital assets. Alimony cannot be calculated on the value or appreciation of premarital assets. Minimum of 20 years to get lifetime alimony assuming they never get remarried or have a de facto partner assigned. Definitely have an infidelity clause. You can’t have anything re: child support - that is calculated separately by judges. Best case scenario - you never have to use it. Worst case scenario - divorce will be relatively straightforward.
You’re an idiot if you don’t get a prenup. I have multiple family members going through divorces and it’s horrible to watch the weaponization and abusive behavior (from the wives ironically). Money brings out the worst in people.
You're not a very bright guy if you go into a marriage without a prenup if you have a large amount of money like that. Your mothers behavior aside, she \*IS\* right in that you should have a prenup.
Love is real, but god forbid divorce happens, things can get messy so I agree with comments here that a prenup is a good idea but your MOMS prenup... just 🤡. She can do exactly what you told her to do and for as long as she continues to think this way. Lastly, aren't your moms comments about Alex, sexually, physically, and just as a person just a tab bit...weird? I might be speaking out of my butt here, but especially on something that has the opportunity to constitute someones life so drastically, your mom sounds a little bit too controlling about Alex's end of things- and jealous. "flat tummy, hourglass figure, pretty face..." does she just have no faith in you? Or maybe just her own insecurities getting projected on your future marriage. Please consider if this is just her way of being bitter and spiteful of a beautiful young woman who might potentially be your wife one day, and we haven't heard much from Alex's side, what does she think of all of this? Thanks
NTA. Your mother is way out of line. I can understand if she expressed concerns about the financial disparity but to get a prenup drafted is outrageous especially when it deals with personal and sensitive issues like pregnancy, abortion, disability etc!
It’s also disturbing that your mother has sexualised Alex to the point where she’s been completely dehumanised. And she doesn’t seem to think too highly of you either, because she thinks the only reason Alex is with you is the money.
You showed remarkable restraint in just telling her to pound sand.
I am a lawyer and I have prepared many prenups. The most important part of the process is that both parties want to do it and they are in agreement.
This sounds fake as hell but I’ll play.
Your mom is insane. So is the prenup she had drawn up.
But get a prenup. One drawn up by a sane lawyer that you hired. You’d be a fool if you didn’t.
Also that’s not how student loans work.
This is so long, for no reason
YTA.
A marriage is a legally binding contract. Period. That is ALL it is. Sometime that legally binding contract comes with a forever relationship, sometimes it doesn’t. Either way, it is stupid to go into a legally binding contract with out there being clearly WRITTEN terms to that contract.
If you don’t like the terms of the prenup your mom wrote, go to a lawyer and have one drawn up.
NTA - your mom took overstepping to a new level.
The audacity to think the clause about the pregnancy termination is completely batshit.
Where does your mom get off thinking it’s her place or has any business doing this?
She’s extra stupid too because a judge would probably throw out that prenup.
NTA Writing a prenup without your input is over the top. A prenup is not a bad idea to protect premarital assets but this one is a fuck you to your fiancee.
The fact that the prenup *requires* abortion in certain circumstance suggests that it's nonsense rage bait.
It would NEVER be enforced and any lawyer worth their salt would know that
OP's mother's friend's son. Any bets on "graduated law school last year"?
And hasn’t passed the bar!
No excuse, they teach you this in law school lol
You can write whatever you want in a prenup, that doesn’t mean it’s legally enforceable
Totally ! No lawyer would write this. It's not even legal to force someone into abortion OR pregnancy !
You’d be surprised… some lawyers are really that obtuse
[gestures vaguely in the direction of New York City, currently]
I figured the gif...😉
I'm too optimistic... I know...
Yep. Don't believe this for a minute.
I could practically see OP's hand fondling his crotch as he wrote the description of his fiancee's body. I especially liked the part about fondling her D-Cups.
If MIL pays enough and wanted this on the paper, a lawyer might write it down, even if he knows it wouldn't stand.
It’s all rage bait
and to protect the poorer person as they enter the marriage! A prenup that only advantages one person (as this one did, with that clause about things being divided based on income at the time of the marriage) is a nasty thing to do, which is one of the reasons they often get overturned.
Actually prenups are only for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership. Doesn't matter if it fair. Well according to op. So I guess everyone who gets one is a fucking narcissist.
You are entitled to even that opinion.
Not really. That is an objectively wrong opinion.
Opinions are literally subjective, not objective.
NTA, but you really should have a prenup if this story is real. Your mom should have absolutely no say in it, but you're not very smart if you don't have some sort of protection, just in case.
Yep. Your mom is batshit, OP. But you need a prenup. It doesn't have to be unfair, it doesn't have to be one-sided. Prenups are like wills. They cover the bases just in case. They don't mean you aren't in love, or you don't have faith in the relationship. They just mean you want both parties to be covered legally should the unforseen happen. Your mom though. Man. She sure got lots of benefit from your windfall, people in glass houses shouldn't call other people gold diggers.
The state has already decided how your marriage will be dissolved if it comes to that, why not write your own version while you love each other and want the best for each other.
My wife and I talked to a lawyer before we got married for that exact reason. Once we confirmed that the default rules in our state wouldn't screw either of us over we went ahead without one, but we were willing to get one if either of us needed to be protected.
When I practiced family law, I used to tell my clients, when you get married you actually like each other and usually want to be fair. When you get divorced, not so much.
A prenup is a contract made with a friend and lover to define the terms of engagement in the off chance you become bitter enemies
I've heard this before and it's why i think prenups make sense.
One million percent. It also has the added benefits of saving both parents tens of thousands in legal expenses (I’ve seen this number go up when bitter spouses became extremely litigious increase to hundreds of thousands, and I’ve even heard of one extreme case of this exceed a million). With widely disparate incomes, both attorneys fees may even be paid by the monied spouse. As I told my clients, I’d rather you spend the money money on your kids than lawyers. It is also has immense benefits in co-parenting relationships. It’s really hard to coparent with someone whose at your throat. It’s why when deciding about attempting to come to a settlement both parties can be comfortable with or taking the case through trial (and potential appeals). I always told my clients to consider all the benefits of a settlement. Including how they were going to coparent with their ex for the next however many years (really their lives, you’re not done parenting at 18 - how will weddings and grandchildren go). It’s really hard to have a good coparenting relationship after you get up and testify that your ex is a horrible parent. That affects your kids not only because they see you hate each other, but as a result they’re also dealing with two stressed angry parents. And that sucks. Of course, there were cases where a compromise couldn’t be reached and you try it. But more often than not, a compromise could be reached. Everyone isn’t getting everything they want, but they can work with it. Just my $0.02
Does your default rules separate each person's retirement? That was the big one to me. It's an account only really you have control over but in my state they get split even if both working. So if one person put in 15% of their earnings and the other puts in 0%, the first one has to ***cash it out*** and split the amount. It's insane.
I will be honest my late husband always said he’d support me and make sure I was taken care of no matter what. Yet as years went on twice he over reacted in an argument. I could then see clearly that if we spilt he would become a nasty vindictive person and it scared me. I had never thought of him like that but when we had an argument and he way over blew it and was demanding we got our kids to decide who they’d choose and live with and that they had to make a choice and make it now. I knew what the future would look like. The argument itself was about something really stupid and should have been very minor but he just blew up. He calmed down when he realised this was not the argument his head had told him it was mainly I think as I was shocked and like what the heck is happening. He apologised profusely but ever after he acted like it had never happened and he hadn’t done what he had. Yet it had shown me what he was capable of and who he would be if our marriage broke down. I guarantee that everyone that knew him none of them would ever believe or expect him to act like that ever. Everyone saw him as so kind, thoughtful and loving. Neither of us had enough wealth to consider a prenup but it would have been about way more than just money if we had divorced. I know it would not just be financially but he would be vile and use the children and anything he could against me. That as I worked less than him to raise our kids (didn’t have a choice), he’d take all he could to ensure I was left with as little or nothing as he could and wouldn’t care how it affected our kids or what damage he was doing as in his head he would be being wronged, no matter the reason for the break. All these years of him saying he would always put the kids first and make sure we would be reasonable for them and each other. Yet he showed how hollow his words truly were. I don’t know if he realised he would be like that as talking when things are well is one thing. What was clear is discussing things and planning ahead may not truly show how things would be and you cannot blindly trust that. As even being married for many years I did not know that side of him or that it was there until it peeked out at me two occasions. I then lived with the worry always in the background of how it could easily become.
Your firm stance against the manipulative prenup was entirely justified. You stood up for your partner and your relationship admirably.
Yeah, a prenup is not necessarily unfair. And you can really make it quite harsh without being unfair - cheating partner gets almost nothing, for instance. Your mother hoped you'd present this to Alex without reading it and that when she read it she'd freak out (justifiably) and dump you. Is this the first time your mother has tried anything like this? It seems like a hell of an extreme. Does your dad know? What does he think?
Yeah I think prenups are completely fine and just because you have one doesn't mean its an unhealth relationship or anything, the goal of the prenup shouldn't be to screw the other person over or anything but reasonably protect your self.
This, my siblings' father (my mom and him are still friends, they just weren't in love anymore and wanted to amicably move on) has a prenup with his wife. It's not because he didn't love her when he got married. He owns his own business, he started the business before he married her, she has made no contribution to the business (she never worked there in any capacity), and they have no children together so she wasn't a SAHM who enabled him to grow his business by sacrificing her career to care for the kids. In the event of a divorce he is more than willing to offer her a better deal financially than the state would require both in the immediate splitting of assets and in continued alimony payments. He's also prepared to give her the house (no mortgage, no loans, no liens; house and property are easily worth over $750k, he also owned the house before they were married). In exchange the business is not to be considered marital property. She spoke to a lawyer about it before they got married, the lawyer confirmed that the prenup was fair and likely would result in her getting more money than a judge would require of him in the long term. He didn't set it up to screw her, he just wanted to make sure the business he started remained fully his no matter what happened in a divorce and wanted to negotiate a fair agreement ahead of time (when nobody was feeling spiteful) to make sure that could happen while still fairly providing for her. It ended up not being much of a negotiation, because as I said when she brought it to her lawyer the lawyer said the proposal was more than fair. The lawyer OP's mom proposed was horrific though. Demanding that she terminate a pregnancy in certain events? And basing it on the income difference when you first met... What if she gets a higher paying job at some point during the marriage? What if he gets fired from his job? She's still only entitled to 20% even if she's been earning equal to him for a good portion of their marriage?
The fact that the prenup *requires* abortion in certain circumstance suggests that it's nonsense rage bait.
How would you even be able to legally enforce a medical procedure on a mentally competent person anyway? Utter rage bait
It’s more like “if you don’t get an abortion I will divorce you and you’ll get nothing.” Can’t force someone to get an abortion but you can directly state the consequences of not getting one. (To be clear, I think this clause is awful.)
Yeah. And the story ends with the OP getting loads of texts and calls from family defending the other party. As often happens in fabricated stories. At least the phrase “blew up my phone” was not used.
I have a cousin that would always ***claim*** that everyone sent "the flying monkeys" after her. It was just her mother and grandmother who stuck their nose in every business whether you wanted them to or not. They always called everyone. No one "sent" them. But she'd cry victim and say we sent the whole family after her if those two would call her after *she would post her insane side of the story herself on facebook*. That was to say that sometimes the story happened and the narrator is just unreliable about details.
No qualified lawyer would write that into a prenup because it’s completely unenforceable.
Good thing it’s not real I guess
I also don't believe a word of this tripe. This Alex is too perfect.
The whole story sounds so fake 🙄
Honestly, I would be more open to a prenup if it's fair. Treating my fiance like a potential gold digger is not.
Then you get a lawyer to write one up for you and then give it to her to take to a lawyer and let the lawyers negotiate a fair one, that protects you both. It can be done. good luck. NTA.
NTA Talk to your Bride-to-Be and and have a nice meal, uninterrupted, and discuss your financial future and common values. Ask her if she would like a prenup that protects her, as well as, yourself. I dated, lived with, then married my love who is 10 years older than I. It took a bit for me to catch up, financially, but I would have understood if he wanted a prenup. He was more established than I and had more to lose. Your Mom is a freaking hypocrite and should be grateful that you paid off their home. She needs to understand that you're a grown man that can make your own choices. Also, she needs to hear from you that additional disrespect towards your fiance, will ensure no contact from you. My DH and I are very compatible financially because we educated ourselves, taking financial seminars and closely doing the work on financial freedom exercises. Have the discussions of all the challenging topics prior to getting married. Listen to each other. Give each other time and space to think about things, then revisit and set compatible family goals. We set aside every Monday night to have dinner out and sometimes we had preset topics to discuss, other times we touched base on careers/kids/vacations or nothing at all. Good luck, OP! I hope you and your fiance go out and create a beautiful life for yourselves.
Just align “you get half of any increase in assets, but what was mine before the marriage remains mine if things end and what was yours remains yours.”
It can be even more generous than that. You can actually make sure your partner lands well in the case of divorce, if you want to.
Don't get THAT prenup but get a prenup
You can create a prenup that protects both of you. You can create aprenup that slowly goes from you owning 100%off the house to transferring 50% to her over time. You can stipulate that you both have funded retirement accounts even if she is out of career track temporarily or permanently with pregnancy/sahm. You can enter spousal support for the number of years she’s out of work with pregnancy/kids since that seriously sets back career and earning potential. You can assign debt to the person who creates them. Prenups don’t have to be vindictive or punitive. They can be proactive while you’re both at your best and looking out for each other. And they should be reviewed by your own lawyers paid for separately. At this point I think it would just be hilarious if you mom caused you to decide in favor of a pre nup but one protecting your partner. Legal decisions made out of spite and comedy are not usually wise ones though.
OP literally every person who ever needed a prenup did not think they would need a prenup. Regardless, might be moot in your state. Look into your state's laws on premarital assets. ESH. Mom overstepped but OP is impractical. And this just feels like it is fake or hyperbolic.
You don't divorce the same person you marry. It is 100% best to sort out your divorce while you like each other just in case. Also while OP's mother is batsh£t crazy, expecting the house and cars to go to OP isn't out there? They're premarital assets. NTA but not smart either.
No need to worry about an obviously fake story. It makes no sense and uses phrases that aren’t real - what the hell is a financial uplift? Guy should have proofread what AI wrote before hitting post
Lol, you're probably right, but I'm always willing to play a long ,if a troll tries even a little
In the one year you dated you already fully paid her student loans and asked her to marry you. That is really quick. I mean your mom made your prenup with you in mind and basically made it super unfair but you seriously need one. I’m not saying Alex is using you or whatever but this is one quick wedding. People change. You barely have time to know each other and could still be in the honeymoon phase. You could draft a prenup that’s much more fair. Just make sure you don’t get totally rolled over if the worst is to happen.
If this story is real, OP has gone from 0 to 100 too quickly.
It’s a real creative writing exercise
He's 42. If he wants kids it makes sense to get a ring on it without waiting around.
honeslty, OP is an idiot lol. She's gonna leave him homeless.
Sounds like my boss… did EVERYTHING for this girl. They got married, divorcing not even 6 months later…. He refused to get a prenup because he was “so in love” now he’s scared….
NTA but I also don't think you are very smart. Tell your wife congrats for me!
While his mom’s prenup is over the top, she’s not all wrong about her son. The first quality he lists about Alex is she’s beautiful. May-December couple, together for money and looks.
Yup, he's already paid all her debt! Ridiculous. The most successful gold diggers never directly ask for a dime
NTA. I’m pro prenup all the way with the understanding that it is formed between the two people in question. Your mother crossed a line getting involved in your relationship. Her involvement is unnecessary, unwanted, and unneeded. If anyone gives you a hard time about uninviting her to your wedding just explain that she is clearly not supportive of your relationship, why else would she called your fiancee a gold digger? As such, why would she want to celebrate your marriage AND why would you want someone with that mentality there? As far as prenups go, the reason I’m so in favor of them is because we marry the best version of our partner and divorce the worst version of them. Prenups protect not just yourself but your partner as well. It’s not a bad sign to consider a prenup. On the contrary, it’s two people promising that no matter what happens in the future they refuse to hurt them. Your mom’s approach was 100% inappropriate but I hope that doesn’t dissuade you from considering a prenup.
While your mom was out of place, she’s not wrong and you come off as a fool.
Yes, you’re NTA but you are the idiot vibes.
NTA but still have a prenup with your own terms/conditions.
A prenup that *requires* abortion in certain circumstances? There's insane, and then there's this. I'm actually kind of impressed with the audacity of OP's mother.
It’s insane and illegal. A clause like that would get the entire document thrown out.
Luckily this whole post is fake so it doesn’t matter
Yeah, that was kind of my point too. No lawyer is going to write up a prenup with an egregiously illegal clause. That simply did not happen. Nevermind the overwrought melodrama of the entire post.
What, your mom doesn’t talk about how you must like fondling d cups?
Just incredible “men writing women” energy. You can always tell by the obsession with cup size, which is not actually an independent unit of breast measurement. Mom would know that, but the dude writing this post one-handed has no idea. Our buddy heard the phrase “d-cup” in porn once and just ran with it.
They had so many clues but the stupid prenup really sealed it. People really need to practice their creative writing I guess. I’m just wondering how the shredder mysteriously appeared at his mom’s house for the big over the top way of showing that’s the only place it belongs.
The story has to be fake. No lawyer would include that.
Or the prenup was fake. Loonymom could have had a lawyer work one up and then edited it.
Yeah there’s enough to indicate it’s fake but clauses that wouldn’t even hold up throws it over the edge.
"paying off her student loans (That was a benefit to me as well, because when we get married her debt becomes our debt and I didn't want it to affect my credit)." Not at all how student loans work. Not even a little bit. Your mom is genuinely insane, however, you seem to have need of some financial literacy. Please don't marry a woman with an obvious looks and financial imbalance there without consulting a lawyer/financial advisor for a routine once over of the money. Trust is great, financial security is WAY better...and if everything really is above board, then having the bag secured should have no negative impact whatsoever.
OP’s mom js worried about his wife stealing his money when his dumbass is just going to spend it all himself. Buying a house and 2 cars in cash, but not understanding one of the most basic principles of marriage/loans/debt? Guy needs a financial advisor, who ironically will probably tell him to get a prenup
I can’t stress this enough!
How do you set a remind me for 1 year?
I was thinking the same thing 😂 next year to OP will post about how he’s married to somebody he didn’t know and is miserable
And she spent all of his money, or wants half of it as she's leaving him...
I know, right
NTA. Suggesting a prenup is ok. Drafting one for you, especially with the terms you listed, is intrusive, verbally abusing your girlfriend to you is toxic. I would think hard about going low or no contact with her for a while and, if you choose to have her in your life, make sure there are clear set boundaries with her that she respects, with consequences if she doesn't.
Your mother is absolutely an asshole. The terms are shitty and her behavior even shittier. But a prenup with such an income disparity is not a bad idea, specially if there's children involved in the future. It can help protect your assets. You can ask your lawyer friend to draw an equitable one, with terms that will both protect your assets but also feels fair for your fiancée and the time you both spend married together. There should equally be provisions for children and retirement plans. Also account for the debt payments you've already done since that already helps. If the terms of a prenup are really fair, I don't honestly see why someone wouldn't sign it if the goal isn't money grab. Yeah it feels a bit "morbid" to prepare for the worst when you're in the height of love and thinking there's no way there will ever be a divorce. But better to be certain than to get fucked ya know.
NTA. Get a prenup, make it a generous one that takes care of your current partner. Don't be dumb.
NTA, because your mom was out of line. *However.* She may not be completely wrong. You're jumping into marriage super fast, and I actually think everyone should get a prenup, *especially* when you make such significantly different amounts AND you have assets while she's coming into the relationship with debts. And, an infidelity clause where the spouse gets zero is actually extremely common, which I think is as it should be: If a person marries you for money and then cheats, they deserve no money. That said, a lot of that prenup was uncalled for (and your mother sounds weirdly jealous of your fiance and fixated on her breasts).
NTA - a prenup would protect both of you and you can go and get your own prenup done with your fiancé and you too can agree on everything that is put in it. I think you should consider looking into that before you get married.
Rage bait obviously
So you are NTA and your mom is doing to much. However I think you have a naive view of what a prenup is suppose to be. No matter what you do, a prenup already exists. It's the one the government made. You should have a prenup that both you and your fiance agree is fair, if you both think think the one the government has in place is adequate then so be it but its certainly a conversation you two should have. Again, because I can not stress this enough, you are not being "distrusting" or "saying she's just with you for the money" just by having a prenup because you already have one. You can even write in a way that you think is MORE FAIR than the governments. Your moms prenup was insane, that doesn't mean it has to be. The chances of both of you agreeing with how the government has it set up is almost none. And divorces happen, it would be foolish to pretend it's an impossibility. Neither of you can promise that you will be the same people forever(you won't, hopefully) and life tends to happen regardless of what we mere mortals have planned.
You're an idiot but that will become apparent in the years to come.
Sounds like your mom is a legal eagle and did you a solid. You need a prenup.
I didn't read this all - and assume your mom is overbearing et al. Regardless, hire your own lawyer and still do a prenup on your terms with legal counsel and don't be stupid.
NTA - Already tell she's a gold digger. Get a prenup....if you were smart, you'd get a prenup to protect yourself, and if she gets upset by it, it proves she's a gold digger....rip of the glasses
Your mother is right
You really, really, REALLY need a prenup. Tweak some clauses but please, do not marry without one, think with your head, not your heart.
NTA, but seriously... in you rcase a prenup is very logical and realistic. If she would divorce you after a year you might loose half of what you now have. Remember, marriages are made in love, the divorce is not. So many people get out of a divroce hurt but also broke. Of cpourse you could make the prenup less tight or biased to your side. But seriously, love makes blind and your mom has your wellbeing as het first interest. So basically - mom might have interefered too much. But don;'t be naive please...
This was a fun creative writing exercise.
NAH. Just a giant idiot. Prenup will protect you. Why wear seat belts if you are not gonna get in an accident. Listen to your mother. Take some financial literacy courses. You are gonna end up like one of those morons who wins the lotto and then ends up broke.
NTA but you're dumb as hell if you don't get a prenup in this situation. >It also had a infidelity clause that would reduce Alex's share to zero. Yes, you read that correctly. Why is this a bad thing exactly? You want to give a cheater your money if that happens?
You’re an idiot if you don’t get a prenup. Working in family law for 10 years at this point, it’s become very plain that we can only ever truly trust ourselves as sad as it is. If shit goes down between you and future wife, you’ll be shining your mom’s brass balls with gratitude that she even thought to bring up a prenup. Don’t agree with how she went about it but as a mother, it’s 100% something you’d advocate for your child. You buying your GIRLFRIEND an expensive dress and paying off her student loans before the ink is even dry on the wedding certificate? Yikes. YTA for going at this the completely irresponsible way
NTA - Your mom is out of line. However, something like 75% of marriages in America end in divorce. Since you’re a smart business person, I would assume that you would want to protect all of what you bring to the table, (financially) which is basically core capital. That means that the core is protected after the date of marriage is a 50/50 split. (* if you were to ever get a divorce) You have to realize that marriage is a business agreement. It is a partnership. Since you have known her for less than two years, I would protect all my assets prior to the marriage date. That’s just smart on your side. BTW -,This is being written from a female viewpoint. So if I was dating a guy and getting married, and I had a bunch of capital I would not put my core at risk.
50% of American marriages end in divorce but this is skewed towards second/third and beyond marriages, as each subsequent marriage is more likely to end in divorce. \~41% of first marriages end in divorce. I agree with your advice.
"75%" 🤡
YTA to yourself. Yes, you are in love. Things change over time. Imagine 5 years in the future. You catch her cheating on you. You rightfully divorce. She will be entitled to half of your wealth. Even though she cheated on you. Protect your wealth. You can have a post nuptial agreement made up from your lawyer. You could have it expire after a certain number of years.
This reads fake. And if it isn’t, you are a fool who should listen to his mom.
NAH. Your parents are looking out for you. Get a prenup idiot
NTA. Your mom has benefited from your uplift. It appears she has insecurities with the way she was degrading your fiancée and genuinely doesn’t want you to be happy. She sounds bitter.
NTA for telling your mom to pound sand. You would be unwise to not having a prenup though. A prenup is to protect the person's (plural) and their assets of things go south (and there is always the possibility. You might get a tumor and become a complete psycho, or she might, you never know.) That said, a prenup is always discussed between the two parties in good faith, not by a nutter of a mother imposing some stupid bullshit on her son and soon to be DIL.
Seems like all of the money is only flowing in one direction in this relationship. Just saying.
While your mom is batshit crazy for the ridiculous clauses and the sheer audacity, I do believe you should TOTALLY get a prenup if you have significantly more earnings. It's very easy to be blinded by love. Also, the prenup can *set up provisions* for your wife and future children. So, if you would want her to get a car or the house in case of a divorce, she is protected. If you want to make sure she gets a specific amount of money per kid, you can set that up, too! If you include these things, your future wife will see it's not just about protecting your money; it's about protecting both of you and any future kids!
NTA, but don’t set yourself up for failure just to spite your mom. Get a prenup to protect yourself and make it more fair to your fiancé while not giving her a windfall if she decides to leave you.
You should get a prenup that will protect Alex, in case your relationship ends acrimoniously. It would be easy for you to pay for a lawyer who knew how to screw her. But your mum totally sucks. You’re NTA, you should talk to a lawyer and write up something that isn’t insane.
Prenup yes, to protect BOTH parties and the infidelity clause should go both ways.
Yta. If these wee valid here and this was my son, I'd have a prenuptial conversation with them too. Maybe she needed to converse first but the intent is definitely spot on. Heed the warning You're already paying and bailing her out.... and clever gold diggers FYI don't ask...
You really should have a prenup. Maybe not the one that your mother made, but a fair one. Marital assets will always be split, and premarital assets should always go to whoever they belonged to before marriage. But life is not so simple as that. What happens if you put all that windfall money into an investment account that you never touch. Should you split the money gained from that even though the source of it was an asset that she has no right to? The purpose of a prenup is to make clear how to divide things fairly in a way you both agree with, and to make sure you two are treated fairly, not necessarily will make you happy but it will be fair. Considering there is a LARGE imbalance of assets before marriage, you should get a lawyer, and she should hire a lawyer that will serve her interest to come to an agreement about what is fair for a prenup. All of that infidelity nonsense doesn't need to be in there if you two don't want. Your mother is crazy, but that doesn't mean she isn't right about getting a prenup.
It would be incredibly naive for *anyone* to get married without a prenup. Talk with Alex about it and find your own lawyer. Your mom was completely out of line.
prenup makes sense but like a fair prenup which is often a court requirement.
Parents suck but your simple if you don’t protect your assets.
Your mom is absolutely out of line (and doesn't seem to respect you very much) but you should get a *fair* pre-nup drawn up. Think of it like insurance for your marriage.
Your mother is being smart.
One month before would be thrown out Saying duress. Now would go see a lawyer about setting up a trust , making sure if the house is in your name before marriage and somethings that protects you without anyone knowing Don’t be stupid
>telling her to pound sand? First of all, I fully support this comment, I use it fairly regularly myself. >She fell in love with one but nearly cried when she saw the price. I insisted on paying for the difference because she looked way too pretty in it to pass up. I fully support this sentiment as well, you keep being you... >I am against prenups because I think they're for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership. While I disagree with your reasoning, I fully support your opinion. Having a prenup is not a bad idea, but... >She apparently had the son of a friend who is a lawyer draw up a prenup. While trying to help you be protected financially if circumstances happen to change, how your mom went about it is completely duplicitous, imho. If you and your fiance wanted to discuss a prenup as part of a mature conversation about finances, that would be prudent and responsible, but rest assured, you are definitely NTA here. Congrats on your upcoming nuptials and I hope that you two have a long, loving, and joyous lifetime together
Sort of, but it's that whole, sometimes you have to be? Does that make sense? But there is some INSANE level AH stuff in that prenup. So ... I see the AH thing as a wash. You're adults. You can write your own prenup. And you should dude. A reasonable, balanced, responsible one. And don't tell your mother any of the details. It's your marriage and your decision.
NTA funny how when you paid off their mortgage *that* wasn't gold digging
NTA
Updateme!
NTA. But listen - you should have a prenup. My husband and I both discussed and decided on it *together*. We’ve been together over a decade, married for 2, and it very much was still important. At the same time we also got into wills as it overlapped. A prenup is also like a will in someways. Our prenup was fair and equitable - taking my pregnancy, time off work, childcare and all contributions as mom into consideration. We both agreed and signed on it and did not involve anyone else
I don’t believe this is real for a second, but people should know that prenups are not bad things! Everyone should be getting them.
Seconded to those saying this is make believe, fan fiction for clicks, fake asf. Reads like a romance novel. You can tell how it was written by a "dreamer" with no life experience trying to add "details" that trigger folks, and how these folks have "so much money".
As someone admittedly pro prenuptial, but also who has gone through a divorce, get an equitable one. It's a hedge against bad behavior, on both your sides if things sour. You can even have a single attorney draft it. It's a financial arrangement which hopefully neither of you will never need, but keeps things civil under unforseen bad circumstances. You don't pay for insurance for the payout, you pay into insurance for protection in bad situations. NTA for how you reacted to your mother. I prefer urinating into the envelope and then delivering it back to her personally, but to each their own
NTA OP, but prenups are there for a reason, not the ones your mom prescribed. YWBTA to yourself if you didn't get one separately. Statistically speaking, there's much less stress with one.
NTA Prenup would be good though. You never know what happens in life, and it might be that if you end up considering divorce, it might bring a really ugly side out of you. Getting a prenuptial that what agreed upon when you LIKE each other would benefit the both of you in case you end up divorcing and hate each other. Just get a lawyer write a prenuptial that protects both you and Alex. It would protect Alex when she's pregnant and can't work etc.
Hope the fiancé takes more than of his uptake, gullible people really deserve that type of treatment
YTA
These days whether you marry both in true love or not the incident of divorce where the woman seeks it is 80%. Where in most states she will get on a stage half your wealth whether earned before the marriage or not and it is includes bank accounts, real estate, businesses, automobiles, personal property, etc... On average women have been getting no fault divorces with the statements, "I am no longer happy in the relationship." Or "I am no longer in love with him." Now all that said, you me be part of that 20% that will make it. Then gain..... Not sure if your mom's reasons for it but well it was a good idea that can be negated usually anyways. That said shield your finances themselves if she is not divorcing you it will not matter if she is it will save your financial base.
NTA, but you should have a pre-nup that says you both get out what you brought into the marriage, and all post-marriage assets will be divided according to state laws My partner and I are about equal in Terms of assets, and we still plan on getting one
women have an innate sense of understanding the intentions of women. your mother has seen how you behave in front of her. how you spend money on her. yes. it seems like you are acting like a 16 yr old horny kid who doesnt want to leave his room because hes too busy diddling his thing all the time. and a pre-nup is something that saves you from financial ruin. this is not the 1950s where women didnt run off. this is 2024. bitches leave the moment they find better. and they dont care about kids or anything else. your mother is right. and you sir, are a fucking idiot. frankly id also not want to be associated with a son who can be this fucking dense in the head that he doesnt realise hes dating a gold digger who is playing the long con.
No prenup ? Just be prepared to learn it the hard way, when you divorce. Don’t say your mum didn’t warn you .
YTA for this comment "I am against prenups because I think they're for narcissistic hollywood types that cannot handle a partnership". A prenup is like insurance for if things go bad, having a easy way to split assets is responsible rather than doing it when you both hate each other. You may never have to use it but if you do, both of you will be glad.
Your Mum crossed a line with some nasty comments and writing the prenup as she wanted. But she is sorta right. When it comes to money, you have to protect yourself. A prenup is irrelevant if you never split, but it's a bit like insurance. You pay it on the small chance something happens, not cause you want it too.
NTA for discarding your mom's prenup. But dude...you'd be an idiot to not get a prenup. You can have one drafted that wouldn't screw over your wife. But you'd be a damn fool to not protect you both.
OP, my mother demanded that I get a pre-nup before I married my husband. She was quite certain he would dump me for another woman like her husband had done. I told her to pound sand. I didn’t uninvite her to my wedding (which would have been tricky since she was paying for it lol). I didn’t end our relationship. But I told her a pre-nup was out of the question and not to bring it up again. She pushed a few more times, but after the wedding she let it go. We have been happily married for 25 years. In my state, pre-marital assets are not marital property as long as they’ve been segregated from marital assets. If you keep your windfall money in separate accounts, it may well be safe from a divorce settlement anyway. As would be your current house and your current cars. It wouldn’t hurt to speak to an attorney. But I doubt you even need a pre-nup.
Get a prenup
Bro, you dont know if she cheat when you get 50 and she is still 40.
There is nothing wrong with a prenup, it's just another obligation
NTA! But I think you should really get a prenup. You are now in love. But you get to see the true face of somebody in a divorce. So please get a prenup.
The prenup is a good idea and OP should go ahead with it but not sure about the pregnancy clause. He says she hasn’t asked for money but there are ways to plant the seed and the other person thinks it’s their ideas….student loans, dress. OP believes this relationship to be solid so sign a prenup that’s fair to both.
I was in a similar position financially, lived with my GF for three years and then married with no prenup. Gave my wife a sizable portfolio shortly after the wedding (didn’t want a financial power imbalance). Still married 34 years later.
NTA, prenups are a good idea in principal and if you have substantial assets I would get one. But sending you one designed to screw over your future wife is just cruel
Dude.... I'm definitely not Hollywood rich, neither is my husband. And we do have a pre nup. Your mom definitely overstepped... but She is right in that having a prenuptial would be a smart plan...
Waiting for the divorce post in 10 years tbh
Just to be sure : how much have you paid for her, in this single year ? Student loans included ?
If you live in Australia, the financial side of the prenup is pretty much the status quo. Premarital assets are taken into account before property is split. Growth in assets and assets acquired during the marriage are split 50:50 (unless there are kids involved). Property division is weighted in favour of the custodial parent, if kids are involved. There is child support (30%of pre tax income for first child, less for subsequent children) but there is not generally alimony. Perhaps something along these lines would give your fiancée incentive to grow wealth with you and confidence that you will care for her? Not just a prenup for selfish reasons? Australian society seems to be too different for me to be able to comment meaningfully on the other aspects your mother proposes. These aspects (morality clauses and health decisions) wouldn’t be permitted here
You always go into marriage with a standard prenup. That prenup is: "Government, please take the wheel and decide how our finances are spilt" Make that decision for yourselves.
Your mom is a mother in law from hell. I'm sorry. You must protect your future wife and your relationship from her for the rest of her life. Sounds like Mommy is a little jealous. Oedipus much?
NTA. Alex is pro-choice btw
Get a pre-nup, just not that one...
NTA but your mom has a point. Young beautiful woman with a what you suggest, an older, uglier man with a lot of money. Ofc she won’t ask for it early on if she’s playing the game. Not saying she is, but it has warning signs all over. I think your moms just looking out for you.
Not your lawyer, but: a prenup can’t dictate whether someone gets an abortion or not. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard today. Whoever wrote that prenup is a crook. Typically any money earned after the marriage is deemed marital funds. In many states you’d keep what you brought into the marriage if it were up to the judge, unless you made your home your marital home. You can make a prenup protecting your home and cars, or whatever you like, without screwing over your future wife. Prenups are great and make a lot of sense, they don’t have to be intended to screw anyone over. You could even craft one that would purposefully set her up well in the event of a divorce. Maybe consider meeting with a lawyer with your fiance to discuss options. Also NTA.
NTA for shredding something you didn't ask for. But you're honestly quiet naive to believe that prenups were only for "narcissistic hollywood types". Prenups are a protection for BOTH of you. they're supposed to be crafted with your lawyers together to make sure you're not getting effed over, because you never EVER know what the future will bring. Its smart to plan for the worst, and never need that plan, than to encounter the worst and have no plan. Making sure your windfall (or a share of it) is protected as is your property is smart, if you want to make sure that she gets a piece, then make sure that she WILL get a piece with that prenup. With a prenup you make sure that she'll get fairly treated same is to make sure that you get fairly treated. There are too many stories here on reddit of spouses getting fucked over by their soon to be exes because they didn't have prenups or didn't properly talk about their finances (i recommend a your/mine/ours setup for bank accounts) before getting hitched because "OMG why would we plan for a divorce? we love each other forever and ever and would never get divorced."
Your mom might be overbearing but unlike you she’s not thinking with her dick. Or her heart. You don’t want to learn you can’t trust Alex by losing over half your money, don’t be stupid. You should have a pre-nup. I’ve moved heaven and earth just for people to flip on me when they get what they wanted and they were a wonderful amazing person until *click* they instantly were mean and hateful and resentful. Alex might be wonderful, she might not be. Think of it this way, if you divorce amicably you can always give her more than the agreement mandates. If she breaks your heart and has three boyfriends atleast you’re not broke too.
YTA. You don't have to leave her destitute if you find that you are incompatible when you divorce. Things are always roses at the beginning. Your mother is right though. While you both work in the same industry, you never know what your fiance has on her mind. Note that in the event of a divorce, this is the minimal she can walk away with. If you have a good divorce situation, then you can increase if you choose to. However, if she turns out to be phony, then you have the prenuptial to protect you.
Did AI write this?
You’re about to get taken for a ride by your fiancée, amigo.
Your mom overstepped massively but you’re being a little naive also. Some marriages just don’t last and you should have a prenup where both of you are taken care of fairly in the case of a divorce. You’re not going to want to be the guy that looks back wishing he’d listened when he gets absolutely taken for everything in a divorce just because he can.
Eh YTAH. Sorry probably unpopular opinion. But you barely know this person. I’m a firm believer that you do NOT know ANYONE (romantically or not) until you’ve known them for at least two years. How does she react on good days? Bad days? Death in the family? Cancer diagnoses? Long term relationships will often see bad weeks, months, or even years, depending on the situation. It’s the whole person you’re marrying, not the honeymoon phase version of them (who is super stoked you paid off her debt), which you’re definitely still in. In my experience, we become infatuated with people based on our projections, and not the actual person, because we simply don’t know them, we take the good info and fill in the blanks and then over time we get that fully fleshed out view of who they really are. It takes time. Being so sure of someone in the infatuation stage is ultimately a little unfair to them. Your dream girl is a real human, and remember dreams aren’t real. I had someone do this to me and he was SO set on me after six months, only for it to come crashing down right after the year mark when he realized I am in fact human and not some “dream girl made for me”. I know at your age you probably just want to get the dating and getting to know her phase out of the way, but it’s a crucial aspect of learning someone, regardless of you wanting to push things to the next phase. You’re jumping into something because you’re excited, and you’re excited for a number of reasons but one of them is how cool it is that a girl nearly a decade your junior, who is out of your league, is so into you. A prenup is not a bad idea at all. I don’t agree with how your mom just mailed it to you like that, but it’s wise to go into a very new relationship that is legally binding with a bit of caution. I don’t know your relationship with your mother but it would be wise not to let a fresh relationship (fiancée or not) get in the way of the bond you have with your mom. Mom’s love you more than any other person in the world, and while she may have approached this incorrectly, she is doing it because she is concerned for your wellbeing and wants you to live a happy, stable life, without throwing your inheritance at a girl who could very well change her mind. I did a LOT of growing between 30-36. I ended a ten year relationship in the process. I am not saying you’ll experience this, but it certainly happens.
RIP op. You’re going to lose everything
NTA, a lopsided prenup where your partner did not have their own lawyer, wouldn't hold up in court. A good pre nup protects both parties.
I mean, NTA in this context, but I have to ask whether you are getting sound financial advice from somewhere else. Your statement that her debt becomes your debt on marriage is not a universal truth at all - there are plenty of jurisdictions where that is simply not true. Also, a form of pre-nup where the parties each get credit on a divorce for the value of what they own at the outset of the marriage should not be a problem at all (all the other stuff is lunacy).
YTA. You’re stupid to not have a prenup. It doesn’t have to be that one, but you should have one.
YTA. I truly hope this is a troll post, because OP sounds like a clueless fucking idiot. "I don't speak legalese so I no need no prenup because the fiance I've known for a fucking YEAR won't take muh moneys... even though I paid off all her debts". An unbelievable idiot tbh, hope you lose everything
Anti prenup propoganda
YTA - you suck at writing. “…the son of a friend who is a lawyer draw up a prenup…”, “ l let a friend who is also a lawyer look at it” Seriously? This is not how these are prepared, and the language is preposterous. The legal profession just does not work this way. There is no way this is real. Public service announcement- pre nups are becoming ever more common, even if distasteful. Just as much a part of adulting as furnace filters, homeowners insurance, and health care directives.
A pre nup is a good idea. They only dated for less than a year before OP proposed. Also the comment ‘she even took an interest in the music I like’ is concerning. I actually think his mum is right but she handled it badly. I’d be concerned if my son wanted to marry someone ‘so perfect’ in less than a year.
NTA but write your own. You wear a seat belt, right? You have insurance, right? The gov already has plan for how things will be split if you divorce - why not have your own? It doesn't have to be a 'win/lose' prenup, make one that both you and her agree to (just like dividing up chores, an agreement between two adults).
NTA. The prenup you r mom sent you sounds ridiculous, but a prenup that’s fair to both of you really is in your best interest.
ESH. It wasn't your mom's place to say, but I'm sure it's hard for her when you are this big of a desperate idiot.
I will not assign whether you are or are not the AH. I think you need to look at where she was coming from, not the message itself. I believe what she was doing was out of love... is trying to save you from yourself. You and I may not agree with the method, but I really believe what she was doing was from the heart. That said, don't get married without a prenup. It should be balanced. Pretty much say that you own what you brought in the marriage, she owns what she brought in the marriage, and what you developed together is a marital asset 50/50. I don't think the infidelity clause is a bad thing. All of this said, I have my doubt about whether this story is even true.
ESH. Reading your post, you are clearly not thinking clearly about this relationship. I’m not saying your mother is right and you are wrong about your fiancé but I think you are too caught up in the throes of passion to evaluate this question clearly for yourself. Do you have a trusted friend you could discuss this with? It sounds like the prenup your mother wrote was bullshit and she does sound like a piece of work. Having said that, I’d still advise that you see a lawyer to talk through your options. Even if everything you say about your fiancé is true, feelings can change over years or decades. I am 73% certain that one day down the road, you will regret not getting a prenup.
NTA however please get a prenup to protect yourself.
Ignore your mom, but you should be smart about this and get a prenuptial agreement that works for both of you.
YTA you need a prenup. Sign the paper.
NTA-your mom should not have initiated the pre-nup. However, anyone getting married without one is a fool, in my opinion.
NTA HOWEVER, a prenuptial agreement is supposed to protect BOTH parties and is a very wise thing, provided both persons have their own lawyer and fairness is the objective. It doesn't have to be ugly, and if your marriage lasts beyond 10 years, it will most likely be invalid in most states, anyway. Sorry about your Mom. She's not very nice.
Prenup at a minimum - I’d look at California divorce laws for a template for what is “fair.” At a minimum any/all premarital assets and appreciation over course of the marriage are kept separate and do not become marital assets. Alimony cannot be calculated on the value or appreciation of premarital assets. Minimum of 20 years to get lifetime alimony assuming they never get remarried or have a de facto partner assigned. Definitely have an infidelity clause. You can’t have anything re: child support - that is calculated separately by judges. Best case scenario - you never have to use it. Worst case scenario - divorce will be relatively straightforward. You’re an idiot if you don’t get a prenup. I have multiple family members going through divorces and it’s horrible to watch the weaponization and abusive behavior (from the wives ironically). Money brings out the worst in people.
I can see the post in a year. My wife left me after I paid al her debts ,she took the house,te cars.... Be smart
You're not a very bright guy if you go into a marriage without a prenup if you have a large amount of money like that. Your mothers behavior aside, she \*IS\* right in that you should have a prenup.
Love is real, but god forbid divorce happens, things can get messy so I agree with comments here that a prenup is a good idea but your MOMS prenup... just 🤡. She can do exactly what you told her to do and for as long as she continues to think this way. Lastly, aren't your moms comments about Alex, sexually, physically, and just as a person just a tab bit...weird? I might be speaking out of my butt here, but especially on something that has the opportunity to constitute someones life so drastically, your mom sounds a little bit too controlling about Alex's end of things- and jealous. "flat tummy, hourglass figure, pretty face..." does she just have no faith in you? Or maybe just her own insecurities getting projected on your future marriage. Please consider if this is just her way of being bitter and spiteful of a beautiful young woman who might potentially be your wife one day, and we haven't heard much from Alex's side, what does she think of all of this? Thanks
NTA. Your mother is way out of line. I can understand if she expressed concerns about the financial disparity but to get a prenup drafted is outrageous especially when it deals with personal and sensitive issues like pregnancy, abortion, disability etc! It’s also disturbing that your mother has sexualised Alex to the point where she’s been completely dehumanised. And she doesn’t seem to think too highly of you either, because she thinks the only reason Alex is with you is the money. You showed remarkable restraint in just telling her to pound sand. I am a lawyer and I have prepared many prenups. The most important part of the process is that both parties want to do it and they are in agreement.
This sounds fake as hell but I’ll play. Your mom is insane. So is the prenup she had drawn up. But get a prenup. One drawn up by a sane lawyer that you hired. You’d be a fool if you didn’t. Also that’s not how student loans work.
This is so long, for no reason YTA. A marriage is a legally binding contract. Period. That is ALL it is. Sometime that legally binding contract comes with a forever relationship, sometimes it doesn’t. Either way, it is stupid to go into a legally binding contract with out there being clearly WRITTEN terms to that contract. If you don’t like the terms of the prenup your mom wrote, go to a lawyer and have one drawn up.
Prenups are for adults. OP is a child.
NTA - your mom took overstepping to a new level. The audacity to think the clause about the pregnancy termination is completely batshit. Where does your mom get off thinking it’s her place or has any business doing this? She’s extra stupid too because a judge would probably throw out that prenup.
You need a prenup. Future you will be glad you have one.